Patterico's Pontifications

11/10/2023

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:21 am



[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

First news item

Democrats getting a clue:

One administration official told Axios: “Members of the extreme left are the same people who claim to call out dog whistles, and in this case they are now tone-deaf to anti-semitism unless they see a swastika.”

Another administration official, who is Jewish, told Axios: “The willingness by some individuals to excuse rape, killing babies, kidnapping children — there seems to be no line when Jews are the victim.”

A few administration officials who are Jewish told Axios they have felt apprehension in loudly backing the president even amongst their peers, given some of the rhetoric from the left-wing of the party.

Second news item

A giant red flag: Trump on weaponizing the Justice Department:

“Well, he’s unleashed something that everybody, we’ve all known about this for a hundred years,” Trump said, apparently in reference to President Biden and his administration. “We’ve watched other countries do it and, in some cases, effective and in other cases, the country’s overthrown or it’s been totally ineffective. But we’ve watched this for a long time, and it’s not unique, but it’s unique for the United States. Yeah. If they do this and they’ve already done it, but if they want to follow through on this, yeah, it could certainly happen in reverse. It could certainly happen in reverse. What they’ve done is they’ve released the genie out of the box.”

The former president claimed prosecutors have “done indictments in order to win an election,” and then suggested that if he is president, he could indict someone who is beating him “very badly.”

“They call it weaponization, and the people aren’t going to stand for it,” Trump said. “But yeah. they have done something that allows the next party. I mean, if somebody — if I happen to be president and I see somebody who’s doing well and beating me very badly, I say, ‘Go down and indict them.’ Mostly what that would be, you know, they would be out of business. They’d be out, they’d be out of the election.”

An individual, who we already *know* is corrupt and willing to subvert the law to benefit himself, now warns issues this warning, is a person has absolutely no business being near the presidency. Not then, not now, and not in the future. Period. And while Trump is a big problem in and of himself, it is the electorate that continues to venerate the buffoon, and will possibly put him in the Oval again.

Third news item

The Washington Post, whose banner reads Democracy Dies in Darkness, deleted a political cartoon depicting a Hamas terrorist using children and a woman as shields. Apparently that offended the sensitivities of some staffers and readers who complained about “both its message and the exaggerated features of its Palestinian subjects”:

When you choose to see this as representing all Palestinians, rather than the very obvious Hamas terrorists, then the terrorists are winning the PR battle. Assuming that this is a representation of the Palestinians at large only plays into the hands of the pro-Hamas groups and the terrorists themselves.

Fourth news item

On the eve of the anniversary of Kristallnacht, bearing witness to the Hamas massacre:

On Wednesday evening…some 200 invited members of the industry — most of them avowed supporters of Israel — convened at the Museum of Tolerance in West L.A. for a screening of a film unlike any other: Bearing Witness, which comprises 43 minutes of footage of atrocities committed by Hamas terrorists against Israeli citizens on Oct. 7…the footage was gruesome. Among other things, it depicted Israelis being ambushed, shot through windshields and beheaded with shovels, and it included audio of terrorists proudly parading around hostages and calling loved ones back in Gaza to boast about their misdeeds. For some, it was all too much — a number of attendees could be heard weeping, and some left the theater mid-film, unable to watch anymore. For others, it was not enough — when it ended, as Sheffler rose to speak again, several attendees marched out of the theater and shouted that viewers should not have been spared any of the atrocities that were committed, so that people would know the full extent of Hamas’ evil.

Fifth news item

Some believe that Sen. Joe Manchin, who announced he will not be running for re-election, will now be free to run third party run for the presidency:

“After months of deliberation and long conversations with my family, I believe in my heart of hearts that I have accomplished what I set out to do for West Virginia. I have made one of the toughest decisions of my life and decided that I will not be running for re-election to the United States Senate, but what I will be doing is traveling the country and speaking out to see if there is an interest in creating a movement to mobilize the middle and bring Americans together.

The No Labels political organization released a statement following Manchin’s announcement:

Senator Joe Manchin is a tireless voice for America’s commonsense majority and a longtime ally of the No Labels movement. The Senate will lose a great leader when he leaves, but we commend Senator Manchin for stepping up to lead a long overdue national conversation about solving America’s biggest challenges, including inflation, an insecure border, out-of-control debt and growing threats from abroad.

Regarding our No Labels Unity presidential ticket, we are gathering input from our members across the country to understand the kind of leaders they would like to see in the White House. As we have said from the beginning, we will make a decision by early 2024 about whether we will nominate a Unity presidential ticket and who will be on it

Sixth news item

In Germany, Anne Frank cancelled?? Not a good look, Germany.

A proposal in a small German town to rename a public day care center that is currently named after Anne Frank has become the center of a fraught national debate in the country about antisemitism.

The plan to change the day care center’s name in the town of Tangerhütte…has attracted widespread coverage in the German press and criticism from politicians and Jewish leaders over the past few days.

Over the weekend, a local newspaper, the Volksstimme, published a report that the day care center, which it said had carried Anne Frank’s name since the 1970s, would be renamed “World Explorer.”

The proposed change comes in an atmosphere of acute concern about rising antisemitism in Germany, following the Oct. 7 Hamas assault on Israel and the subsequent Israeli bombardment of Gaza. Germany has long engaged in palpable national soul searching about the responsibility to remember the past given the country’s own history, including specifically about Anne Frank herself.

According to the report in the Volksstimme, the impetus to change the name had come from parents and day care employees, with the new name thought to be more child friendly. The story of Anne Frank was difficult for children to understand and “parents with a migrant background would often not know what to make of the name,” the newspaper reported, citing school authorities. The director of the school was quoted as saying the school wanted a name “without political background.”

On Sunday, Christoph Heubner, executive vice president of the International Auschwitz Committee, issued an open letter, in which he said Mr. Brohm and others responsible for the center were consciously turning their backs on Anne Frank.

“When people, especially in these times of renewed antisemitism and far-right extremism, are prepared to nonchalantly clean up their own history and consider the name of Anne Frank to be no longer desirable in the public space, it sets off alarm bells and sends out warnings concerning the fate of remembrance culture in our country,” he said in a statement accompanying the letter.

Untold thousands upon thousands of children throughout the West have been successfully taught about Anne Frank and her tragic story. Are the German educators unable to to do the same? There is an underlying ugliness at work here, and Germany will be rightfully judged if officials capitulate.

Seventh news item

A clear, informed, and nuanced Hillary Clinton makes for a must-see video from her appearance on The View:

While Netanyahu has understandably said “no” to any ceasefire, Israel has agreed to humanitarian “pauses” in order to get civilians to safety:

Israel has agreed to put in place four-hour daily humanitarian pauses in its assault on Hamas in northern Gaza, the White House said Thursday, as President Joe Biden pressed Israelis for a multi-day stoppage in the fighting in a bid to negotiate the release of hostages held by the militant group…John Kirby said a daily humanitarian pause would be announced Thursday and that the Israelis had committed to announcing each four-hour window at least three hours in advance. Israel, he said, also was opening a second corridor for civilians to flee the areas that are the current focus of its military campaign against Hamas, with a coastal road joining the territory’s main north-south highway.

Eighth news item

Bipartisan group of senators work on migrant border crossing issue:

A bipartisan group of senators is working through the weekend to forge a deal on asylum policy changes designed to reduce migrant crossings along the southern border, hoping to make a rare breakthrough on one of Congress’ most intractable issues, three congressional officials told CBS News.

Sens. Michael Bennet of Colorado, James Lankford of Oklahoma, Chris Murphy of Connecticut, Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona and Thom Tillis of North Carolina are negotiating a compromise to overhaul how migrants are processed along the U.S.-Mexico border, where illegal crossings have soared to all-time highs over the past two years. The compromise they’re envisioning would be part of a broader national security funding package requested by President Biden that includes aid to Israel, Ukraine and border security money, which Senate Republicans have conditioned on significant restrictions on asylum.

In fiscal year 2023, Border Patrol processed more than two million migrants who crossed into the U.S. unlawfully, only the second time that threshold has been surpassed in the agency’s history, federal statistics show. The unprecedented migration flows have strained federal and local resources, in border and interior cities alike, and created a political headache for Mr. Biden as he seeks a second term.

MISCELLANEOUS

Sen. Fetterman pushes back:

Have a good weekend.

–Dana

493 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (932d71)

  2. The problem with Trump threatening to use the FBI against his opponents is really just par for the course.

    “Progressives” (this is a word that means Marxist every time it is used) have repeatedly pointed to some imagined action by Republicans to justify their deeper desires. W sends “Muslims” to Guantanamo, they start talking about sending “American Taliban” to camps.

    Trump is lying about the federal cases against him, but the NY state cases are obviously targeted against him for political reasons, with AGs and DAs who ran on the platform of “getting Trump.” The NY judge in his real estate case has allowed himself to be caught up in the melee, particularly with his low-ball pretrial valuation of properties like Mar-a-Lago and the golf club. The hush money case is overcharged and Trumped up — there are two misdemeanors laughably expanded to 33 felonies.

    I said at the beginning of this that Trump would be able to use the NY cases to diminish the valid prosecutions elsewhere. I see no reason to believe I was in error.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  3. As I pointed out in another thread, the NY Post has some harsh words for the WaPo about the Ramirez censorship.

    “Democracy dies in darkness” is the WaPo’s slogan; we’re saddened to see it surrendering to the dark side.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  4. In a Trump-Biden election, I think that Joe Manchin gets a lot of erstwhile GOP votes. It’s a lot easier for a #NeverTrump Republican (or former Republican) to vote for Manchin than for Biden,

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  5. In a Haley-Biden election, votes move the other way (and some move to “not voting”).

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  6. In a Trump-Biden election, I think that Joe Manchin gets a lot of erstwhile GOP votes.

    You really think so? My impression of Manchin is that most Republicans loathe him because as his election draws near he pretends to be some moderate Democrat who is concerned with his party’s leftward drift, but once he wins reelection he spends the next four years voting the same way that Elizabeth Warren does until it’s time to moderate in the final two years. I’ve always thought of him as an outright phony. The only reason he’s not running for reelection this year is clearly because polling shows that he can’t win as a Democrat and the GOP won’t let him have their nomination.

    If it came down to a Biden-Trump-Manchin race I would definitely vote Libertarian or American Constitution again. Hell, I would leave the Presidential section on my ballot blank before I would vote for any of the three people named above.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  7. Fourth news item:

    Why are these screenings limited to elites in New York and Los Angeles? Why not release the footage to the public? If the networks won’t show, then it should be streamed.

    Rip Murdock (c5a0a1)

  8. Why are these screenings limited to elites in New York and Los Angeles?

    I think we need a wealthy non-Jewish sponsor not affiliated with Israel to fund this sort of initiative. If AIPAC or wealthy American Jews like the family of Sheldon Adelson is behind it, it will be way too easy for the American left to dismiss this as propaganda. Maybe this is where Evangelists can step up and show solidarity with the Jewish people.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  9. By the way, if anyone is wondering if I have any thoughts on the Powerline story about pro-Hamas students harassing Jewish students, faculty, and staff at MIT, please know that I am trying to get more information from some reliable sources as to what exactly went on.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  10. The generic idea of a third party polls is really high today, but they must qualify for the ballot in 50 states (all with different rules). A third party will create enough unknowns for both Republicans and Democrats that they will team up to challenge their placement on state ballots.

    And who that third party candidate is (with all their previous political baggage) will probably reduce the support for a third party candidate.

    Rip Murdock (c5a0a1)

  11. I’d be very interested in reading a post by you about that, JVW.

    Dana (932d71)

  12. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/10/2023 @ 11:56 am

    Manchin is as old as Trump. No thanks.

    Rip Murdock (c5a0a1)

  13. Second news item

    I’m sure Republicans in Congress and the courts will restrain Trump’s more outrageous policies.

    /sarcasm

    Rip Murdock (c5a0a1)

  14. As A lefty I am amazed how far the left has gone in supporting hamas not just palestinian justice. I have mixed emotions as hamas and Islam are not the good guys. Hospitals are now in the crossfire good luck! The left is showing its power and will soon dominate the democratic party. I wish it was in a better cause. I am trying to educate others on the left that humanitarian support for palestinians is fine support for hamas is not. Now for you on the right cheap political attacks in the short run may gain a you a tactical advantage as it did during the vietnam war ;but in the long runs it hardens the left’s position which in this case is not so good. (hamas support) The young are going left faster then I thought. Good for my side not good for yours. Thanks to demographics every day we get more you get less. Especially now they are less reluctant to use force then even I am. Looks like the left has left this old fogey behind!

    asset (3f1d33)

  15. Saying Trump is threatening to weaponize the FBI is about as noteworthy as saying Trump is threatening to create chaos at the southern border.

    It must be embarrassing to acknowledge that Crossfire Hurricane, with the weight of FBI resources in full boner mode, found no Trump Russia collusion while John Durham found a slate of irregularities in the FBI’s pursuit of it:

    Crossfire Hurricane “was opened as a full investigation without ever having spoken to the persons who provided the information.”

    “Further, the FBI did so without (i) any significant review of its own intelligence databases, (ii) collection and examination of any relevant intelligence from other U.S. intelligence entities, (iii) interviews of witnesses essential to understand the raw information it had received or (iv) using any of the standard analytical tools typically employed by the FBI in evaluating raw intelligence.

    Had it done so, again as set out in Sections IV.A.3.b and c, the FBI would have learned that their own experienced Russia analysts had no information about Trump being involved with Russian leadership officials, nor were others in sensitive positions at the CIA, the NSA, and the Department of State aware of such evidence concerning the subject.”

    “Counterintelligence Peter Strzok opened Crossfire Hurricane immediately. Strzok, at a minimum, had pronounced hostile feelings toward Trump.”

    It’s become almost self parody to see NeverTrumpers blame Trump for threats that have already been carried out against him, and which required pretzel contortions to justify at the time. As Peggy Noonan put it before:

    But Never Trumpers never seem to judge themselves. Many of them, when they were profiting through past identities as Republicans or conservatives, supported or gave strategic cover to the wars that were such a calamity, and attacked those who dissented. Many showed no respect to those anxious about illegal immigration and privately, sometimes publicly, denounced them as bigots. Never Trumpers eloquently decry the vulgarization of politics and say the presidency is lowered by a man like Mr. Trump, and it is. But they invented Sarah Palin and unrelentingly attacked her critics. They often did it in the name of party loyalty.

    Some Never Trumpers helped create the conditions that created President Trump. What would be helpful from them now is not pyromaniac fantasies but constructive modesty, even humility.

    lloyd (f335f8)

  16. Moms for Liberty got spanked in Tuesday’s election:

    ………..
    In Pennsylvania, Iowa, Virginia, Minnesota, New Jersey and other states, voters favored candidates who expressed interest in improving traditional public education systems over those who adopted the agenda of Moms for Liberty, which has been at the forefront of efforts to reject coronavirus pandemic health measures in schools, restrict certain books and curriculum and curb the rights of LGBTQ students, and other like-minded groups.
    …………
    Moms for Liberty co-founder Tina Descovich said in an interview that the group saw victories in about 40 percent of their public endorsements. “We are thrilled about that,” she said, noting that nearly 85 percent of candidates the group publicly supported had never run for office before.
    …………
    In Iowa, Moms for Liberty endorsed 13 candidates in school board races but only one was victorious — in the small Interstate 35 district with three schools.

    In the city of Marion, voters rejected all three candidates endorsed by Moms for Liberty………
    ………..
    In central Ohio, most candidates for nearly three-dozen school board races who had been endorsed by Moms for Liberty and other like-minded groups lost their races……… the right-leaning Minnesota Parents Alliance endorsed 44 candidates in 20 districts and saw most of them lose.

    ……….. Descovich said the group is already gearing up for 2024 school board elections and is considering making statewide endorsements.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (090c65)

  17. Now for you on the right cheap political attacks in the short run may gain a you a tactical advantage as it did during the vietnam war ;but in the long runs it hardens the left’s position which in this case is not so good.

    Asset, what cheap political attacks??

    Dana (932d71)

  18. And what do those “cheap political attacks” look like? I can’t imagine mocking or joking about torture, rape, kidnapping, and murder – especially when babies and children are involved.

    Dana (932d71)

  19. The young are going left faster then I thought. Good for my side not good for yours. Thanks to demographics every day we get more you get less. Especially now they are less reluctant to use force then even I am.

    asset, for an “old fogey” you seem to completely ignore all of the teachings of history. It may be true that the left is growing in America as this ill-educated, pampered, and narcissistic generation begins to assert itself, but the story of left-wing movements throughout history is that they always end up turning on themselves once they begin to taste power. Robespierre was sent to the guillotine by his comrades (after having proven to be too incompetent to take his own life with a pistol), Stalin had Trotsky murdered, the Black Panthers fell out of favor when they started killing their own members, Shining Path in Peru ended up fighting with the Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement, Pol Pot ended up murdering a million of his own supporters, and so it goes.

    So you’ll forgive us if we believe that when the mindless young radicals, who can’t even determine which pronouns to use, are on the cusp of attaining a foothold in the halls of power they will find a way to foul it all up. And your warning that they are comfortable with using force doesn’t really move the needle with a bunch of right wingers who stockpile firearms and ammunition. But your delusions are noted.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  20. It will be the Red Guards and Cultural Revolution all over again.

    Rip Murdock (090c65)

  21. @11 I’d be very interested in reading a post by you about that, JVW.

    Dana (932d71) — 11/10/2023 @ 12:29 pm

    @JVW, I too, would be extremely interested what you can ascertain that story.

    whembly (265489)

  22. Re:

    MISCELLANEOUS

    Sen. Fetterman pushes back

    Am I wrong to give Sen. Fetterman some kudos here?

    It’s almost as if he’s… based.

    Not that I’m going to actively support him politically, but I can at the very least point out that he’s taken the right, and respectable position on the Israeli/Hamas conflict.

    whembly (265489)

  23. @17/18 lumping the majority of those democrats and others on the left who sincerely want the killing of innocent palestinian women and children to stop and support a ceasefire with hamas supporters I don’t support ceasefire until hamas is neutralized ;but they better hurry up as unintended consequences are starting to kick in. U.S. business interests in arab world are starting to work on a corporate shill like Biden. Same thing happened during the Vietnam war which America is still dealing with the bitterness.

    asset (7ab5fa)

  24. @19 If that was all there was to the left you wouldn’t have the problem that you will have. It wasn’t the Panthers, tom haydens, abby hoffmans and bill ayres who grew up and moved this country to the left. It was the anti-war moderates who were hardened by the rights actions. Obama, pelosi and even clintons have more in common with them then with you. @20 Red guards wont be necessary as we peacefully take over the democrat party from the corporate establishment stooges and then america’s political system. Laura ingraham did a show tonight about democrats leaving the democrat party forgetting what democrats did in red states tuesday night. AOC is the role model for latinx girls. Every month 300,000 thousand minorities turn voting age and half of generation Z has not turned voting age yet. (They vote democrat more then any other and milennials are next) Biden turns everybody off ;but will be gone soon. Health or election. If election and trump wins AOC takes over democratic party as dem. establishment will be even more discredited then they were after 2016!

    asset (7ab5fa)

  25. If the networks won’t show, then it should be streamed.

    There is a small oligarchy that controls the hosting platforms. Amazon, Google and Microsoft. Ask them.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  26. Manchin is as old as Trump. No thanks.

    He’s not my cup of tea either, but, on scale of 1 to 10, Trump being 1 and Biden being 2, Manchin is the one-eyed man.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  27. My personal preference is for President Haley to be inaugurated on Jan 20, 2025.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  28. Regarding Item 3, the DDIN succumbed to Islamophobia-phobia, the fear of being labeled an Islamophobe. Cowards.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  29. It must be embarrassing to acknowledge that Crossfire Hurricane, with the weight of FBI resources in full boner mode, found no Trump Russia collusion while John Durham found a slate of irregularities in the FBI’s pursuit…

    False. The Mueller and Senate Intelligence Committee reports found evidence of Trump people conspiring with Putin people to get Trump elected, but it was insufficient to bring indictments.

    The Durham report found d!ck.
    IG Horowitz concluded that Crossfire Hurricane was properly predicated, and Durham was approving of both the Horowitz and Mueller reports. Horowitz concluded that there was no evidence of documentary or testamentary bias by the FBI in their efforts.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  30. In addition to Trump’s weaponization fantasy, there’s this. For the love of all that is good and decent, keep this malignant narcissist out of the Oval Office.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  31. About that “mostly peaceful protest” involving Hamas supporters at Grand Central.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  32. Does Israel protect america or america protect Israel? The answer is obvious. Nearly half the country supports palestinians and more then half a ceasefire though not yet for me. While some who support a ceasefire do most don’t support hamas killing women and children. Most of those who support a ceasefire are younger and vote democrat. So attacking them as pro hamas terror supporters is counter productive unless you think joe biden is no different then AOC in charge of the democrat party because biden is the past and AOC is the future and if not her it will be someone who agrees with her.

    asset (7ab5fa)

  33. Tom Nichols on Twitter:

    For years I’ve watched college kids latch on to one cause after another. Later, they grow up and rethink some of those causes. This is different: Many are making a decision to become vicious antisemites, as if this is something you can later dismiss as youthful enthusiasm.

    I knew kids who protested, say, nuclear power 40+ years ago who now, in late middle age, probably agreed with leaders like Obama that maybe nuke plants are okay. So you can walk back your fun stories of getting maced at Seabrook and say, “yeah, maybe I was wrong.”

    Not this.

    You march on a campus spewing hatred of Jews, it will change you. And you’re going to carry that stain with you for the rest of your life. It’s not a youthful dalliance to make common cause with terrorists. It’s an ancient hatred that will infest you and try to hold you.

    I understand that part of being in college is the burning desire to feel part of something important. Been happening for decades, for many causes, some good, some bad, some stupid. But this is pure evil, and you can’t just backspace it out of your resume later.

    Irony: Campus antisemitism is pure privilege. It’s a yearning to be relevant and part of A Great Cause by identifying with an oppressed group as a way of mitigating the reality that you’re on an elite campus living a beautifully cosseted life.

    I’ve been watching all this, and having spent my life in and around colleges, I’m sickened. I wish my former colleagues in the academy would speak up more. Some are, but many are part of the problem. They can afford to be. To be a professor is a privilege, in every sense.

    I can only hope that young people are more sensible than some of the faculty. In my experience, most of them are. (No matter what right-wingers think, it’s hard to indoctrinate kids: they’re mostly pretty smart.) But this is a dark path and it has few off-ramps.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  34. Link for @33.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  35. @33 And this too shall pass. Remember trump derangement syndrome? I got banned from democrat sites for saying I don’t see any collusion. A lot in right wing media have a vested interest in branding all with reservations about what is going on in gaza as supporting hamas terrorists. If I didn’t continuously mention I oppose ceasefire until hamas has been delt with they would use it against me. Making the situation worse wont make it better. I educate by pointing out that just because netanyahu is corrupt and evil and so is likud party that doesn’t make hamas killers good. Like we supported stalin in the war against hitler. Dresden, hamburg and even hiroshima were necessary evils.

    asset (7ab5fa)

  36. Speaking of Manchin, I’d vote for Hogan-Manchin on the No Labels ticket, but not Manchin-Hogan.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  37. #22

    Fetterman may be that thing I have been looking for — a sassy, media savvy semi-moderate.

    Appalled (97aa3b)

  38. Nearly half the country supports palestinians

    In the sense that they support a regime that offers Palestinians a future of safety and prosperity. This is not the same as supporting Hamas or Fatah, the latest Intifada or the destruction of Israel.

    If one were to ask if Americans supported the continuing poverty and desperation under the PLO, it would be a lot more than 50% who said NO.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  39. How annoying is Vivek Ramaswamy?

    “I mean, Nikki Haley was America’s top diplomat at the United Nations. She literally kept her cool with the worst dictators in the world, and eight minutes onstage with Vivek, and she’s like, ‘You are scum!’” — SARAH SILVERMAN

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  40. Speaking of Manchin, I’d vote for Hogan-Manchin on the No Labels ticket, but not Manchin-Hogan.

    I would vote for any candidate with broad support that was not Trump or Biden.

    People (well, liars) keep talking about how badly third parties do, but most third parties are beyond the pale of the majors. Imagine being further Right or Left than Gosar or Tlaib. They are mostly whackjob candidates for whackjob voters, or collectors of protest votes.

    The voters spread out on a Bell Curve, aka a Gaussian Distribution, with 2/3rds of the voters between +/- 1 standard deviation.

    The two parties form a bimodal distribution, with each party’s center being around +/- 1 Standard Deviation from the center.

    Our first-past-the-post electoral system tends to favor the latter distribution as it allows clear choices. Centrist candidates usually find that people pull away to one side or the other. But when the two polar candidates are so widely disliked that people are anxious for alternatives, a center pole can become an attractor.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  41. New Mexico news of great import:

    In-N-Out will expand to Albuquerque. One less reason to travel to California.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  42. Nearly half the country supports palestinians …….

    Source?

    Rip Murdock (090c65)

  43. George W. Bush rightly criticized the “soft bigotry of low expectations’. (Here’s the speech. It’s short, and almost everyone can learn from it.)

    But what should we call the bigotry of no expectations; what adjective applies to the bigotry shown by those who think it unfair to have any expectations at all of Hamas?

    Cross posted at Political Betting.)

    Jim Miller (672c6a)

  44. In last week’s debate, Vivek called for a wall across the northern border, too. The difference there is that Canada would probably want to pay for it.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  45. “I mean, Nikki Haley was America’s top diplomat at the United Nations. She literally kept her cool with the worst dictators in the world, and eight minutes onstage with Vivek, and she’s like, ‘You are scum!’” — SARAH SILVERMAN How annoying is Vivek Ramaswamy?

    As annoying as he is, he displayed for the world that Haley’s emotional frothing is not something that the red button in the Oval Office needs anywhere near it. If she is trolled into outrage that easily I could not imagine how many members of the military will get killed over her pride.

    If you have a chance to see the video of that exchange, her rage face pierced through her makeup. She looked as red as the cartoon thermometer before it pops.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  46. She literally kept her cool with the worst dictators in the world

    This also seems to make one of Vivek’s other points; that Haley liked palling around with actual scumbags.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  47. Vivek is a prime asshat. Like Trump, he wears it as a badge of pride.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  48. Haley’s emotional frothing

    If a man had done that, it would have been “Standing up for his kids.” But a woman, it’s “emotional.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  49. I thought you watched the debate?

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  50. “Speaking of Manchin, I’d vote for Hogan-Manchin on the No Labels ticket, but not Manchin-Hogan.”

    Yeah Manchin is too old to lead a ticket. He’s not exactly dynamic, energetic, or personable. His only role would be to balance a Republican governor at the top of the ticket. We could all name other people we would like to see on a ticket, including Liz Cheney and Paul Ryan, but it all depends on what the goal of the exercise is. It’s reasonable to argue “siphon as many Republican votes that might otherwise go to Trump”. If the goal is to win, then you need a perfect storm: a Trump conviction or two before the election, accompanied by unhinged ranting and perhaps some ultra-MAGA violence, coupled with a Biden health scare that further reacquaints us with who is second on that ticket. Otherwise, tribalism and political muscle memory makes it hard to actually win electoral votes. Quick exercise: which states are ripe for falling to a third party? Maybe somewhere like New Hampshire, but I struggle to think of many with a true independent streak….absent my apocalypto scenario (and I use apocalypto in the best possible sense).

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  51. I thought you watched the debate?

    I did. I thought that Vivek was an asshat, like I said. He’s just there to be Mini-me to Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  52. Here is the question from Hewitt and Haley’s and Vivick’s responses(I cut out Christie and DeSantis):

    Hugh Hewitt (53:39):

    Thank you, Lester. We’re going to stay on China and we’re going to talk specifically about TikTok. Last week, Congressman Mike Gallagher, who is chairman of the House Bipartisan Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party, published a long essay on TikTok following the flooding of pro Hamas propaganda under TikTok accounts across the United States. Chairman Gallagher called it, “Shocking.” He called the app, “Predatory, controlled by America’s preeminent adversary, one used to push propaganda and divide America, its spyware,” he said, “A means of surveillance.” Governor Christie, do you agree with Chairman Gallagher? And if so, would you ban or force the sale of TikTok?….

    …. Thank you, Governor[Christie]. Ambassador Haley, speak to the parents out there. There are probably TikTok apps on half the phones in this auditorium.

    **************
    Nikki Haley (57:03):

    No, I’m going to speak to the fact that two people hit me and you didn’t let me respond. So let’s first talk about the fact that they want to talk about the Chinese land from 10 years ago. Yes, I brought a fiberglass company 10 years ago to South Carolina. But Ron, you are the chair of your economic development agency that as of last week said Florida is the ideal place for Chinese businesses. Not only that, you have a company that is manufacturer of Chinese military planes. You have it. They are expanding two training sites at two of your airports now, one which is 12 miles away from a naval base. Then you have another company that’s expanding and they were just invaded by the Department of Homeland Security. So mine was 10 years ago-

    [Haley and DeSantis exchange barbs]

    *********

    Hugh Hewitt (58:08):

    Thank you, Ambassador Haley. Mr. Ramaswamy, we’ve talked about this. You campaign on TikTok. How do you get TikTok ban if you use it?

    Vivek Ramaswamy (58:17):

    Well, I want to laugh at why Nikki Haley didn’t answer your question, which is about looking at families in the eye. In the last debate, she made fun of me for actually joining TikTok while her own daughter was actually using the app for a long time. So you might want to take care of your family first.

    Nikki Haley (58:30):

    Leave my daughter out of your voice before.

    Vivek Ramaswamy (58:33):

    [inaudible 00:58:32] adult daughter. The next generation of Americans are using it, and that’s actually the point. You have her supporters propping her up. That’s fine. Here’s the truth.

    Nikki Haley (58:42):

    You’re just scum.

    Vivek’s “attack” was actually on Haley’s leadership. And his insult was to her parenting skills. Haley tried the victim route which seems to have worked on some people.

    He never chumped on her daughter; just her. Crying misogyny doesn’t change anything. She was flummoxed on stage, under pressure, and poorly defended a strawman of her creation. Vivek is correct about Hugh’s question, he is correct about her previous griping over Vivek’s use of TikTok, and he is correct that Haley better get her own house sorted out before she starts policing others.

    Another way that you can tell is was bad for Haley is that Hugh allowed one of the only “my name was mentioned” responses in the whole debate. She needs all the help she can get when the chips are down, I guess.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  53. Quick exercise: which states are ripe for falling to a third party? Maybe somewhere like New Hampshire

    A “centrist” party would be a less loaded question. And I’ll tell you who: California, where the Democrats are in disfavor. Less disfavor than Trump and the GOP, it’s true, but both Biden and Newsom are under water. Give people another choice that wasn’t socially conservative and you have a contest.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  54. BuhDuh, I am just going to have to place you as either supporting asshats or calling women who react to scummy asshats as “emotional”.

    AllahNick:

    Which left Team Ramaswamy with a dilemma before the third debate. With his faint chances at the nomination now truly zero, how should he play it? By doubling down on the “kinder, gentler Vivek” shtick? By dropping out and endorsing Trump?

    No. He did the rational thing. He went full assclown.

    He baited Haley into calling him “scum” by bringing up her daughter. He accused Volodymyr Zelensky of being a “Nazi,” echoing Kremlin propaganda. He threw a tantrum about the moderators, demanding to know why redpilled goblins Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, and Tucker Carlson weren’t hosting the debate instead. He blamed Tuesday’s disappointing election results on RNC chief Ronna McDaniel, absolving MAGA and its king of any responsibility. He floated a conspiracy theory about Michelle Obama replacing Biden as the Democratic nominee.

    Oh, and he called for building a wall—on the northern border with Canada. “Ramaswamy is a right-wing Twitter thread come to life,” our friend David French marveled. “It’s actually uncanny how much he imitates the culture, positions and manners of right-wing Twitter trolls.”

    Tell me, which of these proposals or comments of Vivek’s do you most agree with?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  55. Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson “moderating” a debate? Someone needs to look up the definition of “moderating.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  56. “If a man had done that, it would have been “Standing up for his kids.” But a woman, it’s “emotional.””

    Yeah, use Obama’s or Bush’s daughters as a cheap prop and it would have rightly gotten a reference to the back of the gymnasium and a punch to the nose. This is politics 101: keep family out of cheap shots. Trump normalized this with attacking Heidi Cruz’s looks and Rafael Cruz’s improbable involvement in the JFK assassination (let’s not forget his memorable and despicable attacks on Carly Fiorina and Megyn Kelly). I’m fine with Haley’s response. He is scum and yet another embarrassment for the GOP political incubator. This is someone who should have been flushed post haste after the first debate. In fact, it’s about time for a candidate to show some justifiable anger rather than Dukakis coldness. Voters too should be mad that this inexperienced, interrupting interloper is corrupting these debates.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  57. He baited Haley into calling him “scum”

    Strong candidates, male or female, don’t take bait from asshats.

    Do you get it now?

    I don’t have to like Vivik to still be able to recognize the damage he did to her “tough” image. She has brought up her woman-in-a-man’s-world schtick enough times, she should have been better prepared to keep her emotions in check.

    From the 1st debate:

    Nikki Haley (40:17):

    Brett, what I would like to say is the fact that I think this is exactly why Margaret Thatcher said, if you want something said, “Ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman.”

    She is consumed by the man/woman thing. And so are her faithful.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  58. @53, that’s fair, except for the infrastructure and organization advantage that Democrats will have in California. Unless we see Weekend at Joe’s, Biden will win California. Winning entails Getting Out The Vote and raising money. I don’t see Hogan/Manchin excelling at that with their bases being 2500 miles away. Neither has that personality swagger that Perot had. They’re standard politicians…why would California ditch Joe?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  59. “Strong candidates, male or female, don’t take bait from asshats. Do you get it now?”

    Where is the evidence that today’s GOP cares a lick about name calling? Does Trump stay cool on Truth Social or does he rant like an adolescent in heat? Ranting and emoting almost defines the GOP anymore. Do those rants affect his poll numbers? Why should we think they will affect Haley’s?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  60. Where is the evidence that today’s GOP cares a lick about name calling?

    It has Kevin and AllahWhoever pretty worked up.

    The second debate’s TikTok conversation is something else. Haley really should have been better prepared at the third debate.

    Here is it link:
    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/second-republican-presidential-primary-debate-transcript/amp

    But, misogyny….

    Later, dudes.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  61. She is consumed by the man/woman thing. And so are her faithful.

    So, apparently, are her detractors.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  62. Well, now we know what Haley would want to do if Hamas had kidnapped her daughter. She has some steel in her spine. I don’t think she’d start a war over our predator bait/troops being targeted by Iranian proxies in the Middle East, but I’m guessing she would make sure the terrorist training camp Iran runs in Iraq would go boom.

    She’s not going to put a car bomb in Vivek’s Ford Expedition, she was noting Vivek was being even more of an ass than usual by crossing that line.

    steveg (032d7e)

  63. Buhdah, you haven’t answered my question.

    Tell me, which of these proposals or comments of Vivek’s do you most agree with?

    Do you think he’s right that Zelensky is a Nazi?
    Do you think that Tucker of Rogan would make a good moderator (or, by implication, that Hugh Hewitt has no place there)?
    Do you think that MAGA doesn’t harm GOP candidates? Do you think that we should build a wall to keep Canadians out?
    Do you think that Vivek is more than a stand-in for Trump?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  64. Sorry, BuDuh. My bad.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  65. Candidate One:

    “ TikTok is one of the most dangerous social media apps that we could have and what you’ve got, honestly, every time I hear Candidate Two, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say… What they’re doing is these 150 million people are on TikTok. That means they can get your contacts, they can get your financial information, they can get your emails, they can get text messages. They can get all of these things. China knows exactly what they’re doing…. You’re now wanting kids to go and get on the social media that’s dangerous for all of us? You went and you were in business with the Chinese that gave Hunter Biden $5 million? We can’t trust you. We can’t trust you.”

    Candidate Two:

    “Your daughter was actually using the app for a long time. So you might want to take care of your family first.”

    Candidate One:

    “ You’re just scum.”

    Handled deftly.

    My apologies. She is a true leader.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  66. “The second debate’s TikTok conversation is something else. Haley really should have been better prepared at the third debate.”

    In reality, like much of the rest of the debate….it’s irrelevant. Trump leads by 40 points and is facing no adversarial questioning…despite facing 91 felony counts, being found civilly liable for sexual assault, and currently facing civil liability for cooking the books. Any debate should focus on how possibly he can win and why other candidates are better positioned. TikTok is just more garbage social media…but it’s in fact less important than putting a deluded felon in the White House to execute vengeance.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  67. A “centrist” party would be a less loaded question. And I’ll tell you who: California, where the Democrats are in disfavor. ……..

    LOL! California’s voter registration stats, as of October 3, 2023:

    Democrats: 46.8%

    Republicans: 23.9

    No Party Preference: 22.2

    Other: 7.0

    Just because Newsom and Biden are unpopular now doesn’t mean a) Biden won’t win California 360 days from now; and b) party ID is probably the single best indicator as to how someone will vote.

    Rip Murdock (bf8278)

  68. Buhdah, you haven’t answered my question.

    I quickly scrolled back and I am not sure where you asked me these questions.

    Tell me, which of these proposals or comments of Vivek’s do you most agree with?

    Do you think he’s right that Zelensky is a Nazi?

    No.

    Do you think that Tucker of Rogan would make a good moderator (or, by implication, that Hugh Hewitt has no place there)?

    I don’t. But I do think they are capable of asking valid questions in their own forums.

    Do you think that MAGA doesn’t harm GOP candidates?

    Define MAGA thoroughly, please.

    Do you think that we should build a wall to keep Canadians out?

    Illegal alien Canadians?

    Do you think that Vivek is more than a stand-in for Trump?

    I don’t trust him at all. I think he is his own opportunistic dipwad who may be thinking his actions will get rewarded by Trump.

    OK?

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  69. Haley probably picked up some independent suburban moms who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Mr. “grab ’em by the..” Trump and calling Vivek scum over bringing up her daughter might have picked her up a few more.

    As for the “Haley’s daughter used an ubiquitous social media platform, Tik-tok even as Haley herself says Tik-Tok is a CCCP bonanza” angle, all I can say is ?

    steveg (032d7e)

  70. Link for post 67.

    Rip Murdock (460231)

  71. Ahh. I see it now. The request was part of the Allah quote. Thank you for making actual questions for me to answer.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  72. Ramaswamy uses TikTok to promote his campaign despite calling it digital fetanyl. He has 100,000 followers. No other GOP candidates use it. Haley’s daughter Rena no longer uses the app. But somehow her previous use is relevant, even though she is an adult. Curious.

    TikTok is generally “bad” because it increases your digital footprint making you more susceptible to phishing and stalking. The Chinese operate it so it poses national security concerns. Was Rena compromised by her footprint any more than Ramaswamy was? This is silly.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  73. This is silly.

    And Haley would have been better served to understand that it is silly and to have restrained herself, IMO.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  74. <blockquote€RNC warns candidates that attending Iowa Christian group’s forum will disqualify them from debates
    ………….
    Five candidates – former President Donald Trump, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott – were invited to (Bob Vander Plaats’s)Family Leader’s “Thanksgiving Family Forum” on November 17.

    “It has come to the attention of the RNC Counsel’s Office that several Republican presidential candidates have been invited to participate in an open-press event in Iowa in November at which they would ‘gather around the table to have a moderated, friendly, and open discussion about the issues.’ In other words, a debate,” the RNC counsel’s office said in a letter obtained by CNN.
    ………….
    “Accordingly, please be advised that any Republican presidential candidate who participates in this or other similar events will be deemed to have violated this pledge and will be disqualified from taking part in any future RNC-sanctioned presidential primary debates,” the office said.
    …………
    The Family Leader plans to move forward with the event, despite the RNC’s warning.
    …………..

    More:

    ………….
    The rules are simple. “You can’t talk negative about anybody at the table,” (Vander Plaats) said. And the upside is obvious. “It would be good to show how a modern team of rivals can sit at a table together and have an adult conversation about the future of the country,” he added.

    Vander Plaats said three candidates already confirmed they would attend, the Des Moines Register was first to report. He repeated that list in an interview with RCP: Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, and Vivek Ramaswamy. None, however, would confirm their plans.
    …………..
    Underscoring the drama over whether to break bread with Vander Plaats is the weight of his endorsement. He has a history of picking winners in Iowa. He backed Texas Sen. Ted Cruz in 2016, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum in 2012, and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee in 2008. Each won the caucuses there but fell short of the Republican nomination.

    One candidate who will not receive his support this year: Donald Trump.……….
    …………..
    ………….. If the RNC disqualifies candidates who attend his forum, he warned, “I think you just squelched all your debates.”
    …………

    Reportedly it was the Trump campaign that informed the RNC about the forum. If the RNC does enforce its pledge and disqualifies the candidates who participate forum, it would a) be a huge surprise, and b) play right into the Trump campaign’s desire to end the debates.

    Rip Murdock (bf8278)

  75. Sorry for the formatting error on post 74.

    Rip Murdock (bf8278)

  76. Michael Ramirez has a good suggestion for TikTok, here.

    (Though I am not absolutely sure the pandas haven’t been spying on us, too.

    The extent of the ChiCom spying in the US continues to amaze me. By now, I would not be surprised, for instance, if we learn soon that the brothel story is another small part of their efforts.)

    Jim Miller (aec6ae)

  77. Underscoring the drama over whether to break bread with Vander Plaats is the weight of his endorsement. He has a history of picking winners in Iowa. ……….Each won the caucuses there but fell short of the Republican nomination.

    Apparently then he also has a record of picking losers. Winning Iowa, outside of publicity and a few delegates, is not predictive of who wins the Republican nomination:

    If you go back to 1980, only two non-incumbent candidates won Iowa and went on to win the GOP nomination. Those were Bob Dole in 1996 and George W. Bush in 2000. And only Bush went on to with the general election.

    Every other time the Iowa winner has lost the nomination. This includes George H.W. Bush (1980), Bob Dole (1988), Mike Huckabee (2008), Rick Santorum (2012) and Ted Cruz (2016).
    ……………
    For Republicans, New Hampshire has a much better track record of boosting candidates to victory. ……….
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (bf8278)

  78. @42 the nation. 66% support cease fire. Other sources have same 66% number.

    asset (fdc372)

  79. @54 replacing biden with Michelle Obama.

    asset (fdc372)

  80. @65 All voters want to see a woman candidate shows she is ready to fight back if necessary. Only those who oppose haley have a problem. Her position on abortion would give biden and the dnc fear of losing to her.

    asset (fdc372)

  81. @65: Agree3d. The person who injected a child into the debate is no leader. Maybe he’s not scum for that, but it’s not his only demerit.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  82. Just because Newsom and Biden are unpopular now doesn’t mean a) Biden won’t win California 360 days from now; and b) party ID is probably the single best indicator as to how someone will vote.

    If “b” was correct then Kentucky would have a GOP governor.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  83. Ahh. I see it now. The request was part of the Allah quote. Thank you for making actual questions for me to answer.

    Tick tock (to coin a phrase).

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  84. Her position on abortion would give biden and the dnc fear of losing to her.

    Her position is this: “It’s not for the President to decide, it’s for Congress or the Legislatures.” This kind or reality-check is disliked by demagogues everywhere.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  85. 66% support cease fire.

    Source for this? Because actual polls say the opposite.

    (Rasmussen’s polls are behind a paywall. This is from Newsmax)

    Rasmussen asked 995 likely voters whether they agreed with Netanyahu’s Oct. 30 statement: “Calls for a ceasefire are calls for Israel to surrender to Hamas, to surrender to terrorism, to surrender to barbarism. That will not happen.”

    A total of 68% say they agree with the prime minister’s statement, and that included 49% who strongly agree. Only 21% say they disagree, including 10% who strongly disagree. Another 10% say they are not sure.

    Americans also have become more sympathetic to Israel.

    Rasmussen Reports also asked, “Looking at the history of Israel and Palestine, do you sympathize more with the Israelis or the Palestinians?”

    A total of 59% say they sympathize more with the Israelis — an increase from 51% in 2019. Only 18% say they more sympathetic to the Palestinians. Another 23% are undecided.

    Democrats are less sympathetic toward Israel than other voters, and also less likely to agree with Netanyahu’s rejection of a Gaza ceasefire.

    A total of 48% of Democrats say they sympathize more with the Israelis, compared to 70% of Republicans and 60% of unaffiliated voters.

    Only 38% of Democrats strongly agree with Netanyahu that those calling for a cease-fire in Gaza are calling for “for Israel … to surrender to terrorism.” That compared to 64% of Republicans and 46% of unaffiliated voters.

    Overall, 54% of likely voters say they have a favorable impression of Netanyahu, including 28% who have a very favorable opinion. A total of 31% say they view Netanyahu unfavorably, including 15% with a very unfavorable impression. Another 15% are not sure.

    In 2019, 37% had a favorable opinion of the Israeli prime minister.

    Among party voters, 66% of Republicans, 46% of Democrats, and 50% of unaffiliated voters say they have at least a somewhat favorable impression of Netanyahu.

    Voters under the age of 40 are about three times more likely than their elders to sympathize with the Palestinians.

    While 59% of voters aged 40 or older have a favorable opinion of Netanyahu, only 43% of those under 40 share that view.

    President Joe Biden’s strongest supporters are least favorable toward Netanyahu. Among voters who strongly approve of Biden’s job performance as president, just 36% say they have a favorable impression of Netanyahu.

    Among those who strongly disapprove of Biden’s performance, 68% say they view Netanyahu favorably.

    Voters also were asked, “Do you agree or disagree with this statement: ‘Israel has no choice but to seek the complete eradication of Hamas in Gaza.’”

    68% oppose a cease-fire.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  86. https://unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-am-now-a-christian/

    You can see why, to someone who had been through such a religious schooling, atheism seemed so appealing. Bertrand Russell offered a simple, zero-cost escape from an unbearable life of self-denial and harassment of other people. For him, there was no credible case for the existence of God. Religion, Russell argued, was rooted in fear: “Fear is the basis of the whole thing — fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death.”

    As an atheist, I thought I would lose that fear. I also found an entirely new circle of friends, as different from the preachers of the Muslim Brotherhood as one could imagine. The more time I spent with them — people such as Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins — the more confident I felt that I had made the right choice. For the atheists were clever. They were also a great deal of fun.

    So, what changed? Why do I call myself a Christian now?

    Part of the answer is global. Western civilisation is under threat from three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation.

    We endeavour to fend off these threats with modern, secular tools: military, economic, diplomatic and technological efforts to defeat, bribe, persuade, appease or surveil. And yet, with every round of conflict, we find ourselves losing ground. We are either running out of money, with our national debt in the tens of trillions of dollars, or we are losing our lead in the technological race with China.

    But we can’t fight off these formidable forces unless we can answer the question: what is it that unites us? The response that “God is dead!” seems insufficient. So, too, does the attempt to find solace in “the rules-based liberal international order”. The only credible answer, I believe, lies in our desire to uphold the legacy of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

    That legacy consists of an elaborate set of ideas and institutions designed to safeguard human life, freedom and dignity — from the nation state and the rule of law to the institutions of science, health and learning. As Tom Holland has shown in his marvellous book Dominion, all sorts of apparently secular freedoms — of the market, of conscience and of the press — find their roots in Christianity.

    And so I have come to realise that Russell and my atheist friends failed to see the wood for the trees. The wood is the civilisation built on the Judeo-Christian tradition; it is the story of the West, warts and all. Russell’s critique of those contradictions in Christian doctrine is serious, but it is also too narrow in scope.

    For instance, he gave his lecture in a room full of (former or at least doubting) Christians in a Christian country. Think about how unique that was nearly a century ago, and how rare it still is in non-Western civilisations. Could a Muslim philosopher stand before any audience in a Muslim country — then or now — and deliver a lecture with the title “Why I am not a Muslim”? In fact, a book with that title exists, written by an ex-Muslim. But the author published it in America under the pseudonym Ibn Warraq. It would have been too dangerous to do otherwise.

    To me, this freedom of conscience and speech is perhaps the greatest benefit of Western civilisation. It does not come naturally to man. It is the product of centuries of debate within Jewish and Christian communities. It was these debates that advanced science and reason, diminished cruelty, suppressed superstitions, and built institutions to order and protect life, while guaranteeing freedom to as many people as possible. Unlike Islam, Christianity outgrew its dogmatic stage. It became increasingly clear that Christ’s teaching implied not only a circumscribed role for religion as something separate from politics. It also implied compassion for the sinner and humility for the believer.

    Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?

    Russell and other activist atheists believed that with the rejection of God we would enter an age of reason and intelligent humanism. But the “God hole” — the void left by the retreat of the church — has merely been filled by a jumble of irrational quasi-religious dogma. The result is a world where modern cults prey on the dislocated masses, offering them spurious reasons for being and action — mostly by engaging in virtue-signalling theatre on behalf of a victimised minority or our supposedly doomed planet. The line often attributed to G.K. Chesterton has turned into a prophecy: “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

    In this nihilistic vacuum, the challenge before us becomes civilisational.

    So much there to read. It’s an enlightened piece and I am glad to see she has had her eyes opened and her heart awakened.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  87. @82 Democrats aren’t worried about cali, they are worried about az, ga, mi, pa, wi. and floriduh with abortion vote on ballot. Cnn and msdnc are already wringing their hands about jill stein entering the race for green party.

    asset (76a9bd)

  88. @85 I gave source “the nation” also pbs.org cnn. times of Israel(only slightly lower) and many others. Just google 66% support ceasefire. Rasmussen pole has higher number of republicans/conservatives then other pollsters. Thats how it got 68% oppose. And I oppose ceasefire.

    asset (76a9bd)

  89. I’d support a ceasefire during the release of hostages

    steveg (032d7e)

  90. @82 Democrats aren’t worried about cali, they are worried about az, ga, mi, pa, wi. and floriduh with abortion vote on ballot

    In a Trump-Biden race, CA will go 70% for Biden. But if they have a centrist 3rd choice all bets are off.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  91. I’d support a ceasefire AFTER the release of hostages, followed by a peaceful surrender.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  92. Rasmussen poll has higher number of republicans/conservatives then other pollsters.

    NPR did not ask the cease-fire question, and they show that 65% of Americans support Israel in this war.

    The Nation does say that 66% “want Biden to call for a cease-fire” (not the same thing as “want a cease-fire”) but the Nation is conflicted between supporting Trotsky or Stalin.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  93. Its kind of hard to transfer hostages safely without a ceasefire during the transfer, but I understand your point

    steveg (032d7e)

  94. As a person who cares about the palestinian people of gaza I know until hamas has been neutralized there will be no peace between Israel and gaza. Their muslim religion is bad enough to cause problems. Their Imams have to behave themselves in this country as they are being watched. The problem for us who oppose a ceasefire is not getting any better. I was watching faux news as sun tzu says to know what my enemies are thinking. They were interviewing two young people at a ceasefire rally a transgeder was holding up a lbtq+ceasefire sign. The reporter asked both what they thought about the hamas attack on oct. 7 Both gave a blank stare and said what attack? That is what were up against. Even worse on msdnc dr. with out border was being interviewed about the situation at the gaza hospital. She said there is no water, food, medical supplies or electricity with nearly a hundred new born babies lying in incubators with no power to them. One or two premature babies have been dying each hour as more are being born and replaced in the powerless incubator. Saying that 20 babies were killed at a kibbutz so the deaths of newborn palestinian babies don’t count. You better add the word yet.

    asset (d7cf2d)

  95. When It Comes to Her Kids, Nikki Haley Can’t Have It Both Ways

    By Teri Christoph | 8:15 PM on November 11, 2023

    It looks like Nikki Haley is trying to have it both ways, right? You’re “scum” if you mention her kids, but it’s a-okay to have them sign fundraising solicitations for you? Having family members sign fundraising letters is a tried-and-true tactic that often brings in an uptick in donations for candidates. No shame in that game.

    But if you’re going to make a big deal about not having your kids’ names on your opponents’ “voices,” it’s probably a good idea not to have your kids’ names on your fundraising emails. Possibly not a big deal, but it was definitely a misfire by the Haley campaign staff, especially less than 48 hours after the debate dustup. It unnecessarily opens her up to legitimate criticism for actually being the one to make her kids fair game in her campaign.

    Written by a chick so “misogyny” = Derp.

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  96. As annoying as he is, he displayed for the world that Haley’s emotional frothing is not something that the red button in the Oval Office needs anywhere near it.

    Ridiculous, given your support for and defense of the Orange Emotional Midget.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  97. Practically every one of Trump’s tweets or “truths” is larded with “emotional frothing”.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  98. 😭

    BuDuh (ddc422)

  99. 91. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/11/2023 @ 6:16 pm

    I’d support a ceasefire AFTER the release of hostages, followed by a peaceful surrender.

    The ceasefire, or time out, needs to come before that, of course.

    You can’t have a surrender or release of hostages without a ceasefire. But the ceasefire has to be for the purposes of negotiating a surrender, partial or total. With a lot of precautions taken.

    There used to be the concept of an “open city” I think it happened with Paris and Rome during World War II, although Hitler gave the order to burn Paris and maybe Rome..

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  100. https://nypost.com/2023/11/11/news/we-learn-hate-for-israel-on-tiktok-and-instagram-protesters

    There’s some outright anti-semitism on TikTok, nit to mention what sounds like disinformation. (it’s unclear what they are describing)

    Itnnever occurs to high school and college studnts that they are being targeted and that that is because they are most likely yo be ignorant because the whole subject is new to them – they are close to a tabula rasa – and older people never point that out.

    It happens with “climate change” as well. (traditional environmental causes, like about toxic waste, or wildlife, I read, are losing charitable contributions to what amounts to lobbying to supposedly prevent climate disasters)

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  101. I don’t recall BuDuh declaring that Trump shouldn’t be near that “red button in the Oval Office” after he frothed about his kids testifying in a Manhattan courtroom, saying “Leave my children alone, Engoron, You are a disgrace to the legal profession!” in one of his “truth” tantrums, despite his kids being co-conspirators in Trump’s fraudulent organization and despite all three of them making conscious choices to join his corrupt businesses and be in the political arena.

    Haley’s kid may be an adult, but she’s not in the political arena, she’s a recently married nurse, so she’s not fair game for political opportunists and Trumpian hacks.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  102. Should a person have access to the red button when–not for the first time–the 77-year old malignant narcissist can’t recall the name of the current president?

    But they were interviewing him [Orban] two weeks ago and they said, “What would you advise President Obama? The whole world seems to be exploding and imploding.”.

    And he said “It’s very simple. He should immediately resign and they should replace him with President Trump, who kept the world safe.”

    Per RCP, 58.5% of the GOP is in a cult.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  103. Abandon Ship!

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’ biggest 2024 donor, real estate tycoon Robert Bigelow, is considering jumping ship and backing the former president who is miles ahead in GOP primary polls.
    …………
    “Who would you want as a commander? I’d want somebody that would be a hell of an ass kicker if he needed to be,” Bigelow said (to the Financial Times). “On the face of it, you lean toward Trump.”

    …………..Bigelow was also critical of DeSantis’ signing of a bill in April that banned abortion in Florida past six weeks.

    “Six weeks, she just found out she’s pregnant, the odds are,” Bigelow told the outlet. “It’s a sham. It’s make-believe. It’s condescending.”

    DeSantis has become too focused on “conservatism,” according to Bigelow, who also said Trump was more socially moderate. ……….
    ………….
    Bigelow has been a staunch supporter of DeSantis, once saying that he would “go without food” in order to support DeSantis’ White House ambitions. Bigelow became the biggest donor of a super PAC backing DeSantis when he gave $20 million to Never Back Down this year.
    ………….
    …………. Now, Bigelow says DeSantis is less willing to engage in the rough and tumble of U.S. election politics.

    “I think Trump is too strong,” Bigelow told the Financial Times. “I think Trump has the momentum, the inertia, to beat him.” Trump was a “bull,” Bigelow added, but DeSantis was “dinner.”
    #########

    Rip Murdock (4b4c41)

  104. Link to post 103.

    Rip Murdock (4b4c41)

  105. Nearly 300 UCLA Faculty Members Call on University to Denounce Anti-Israel Rallies on Campus
    ………..
    The letter begins by detailing the atrocities perpetuated by Hamas against Israelis on October 7. ……….

    The faculty added: “While we all have our different political views on the Israeli-Palestinian situation, the October 7 slaughter should be condemned irrespective of political views. UCLA leadership must make the strongest possible statements condemning the barbaric Hamas attacks. There is no room for moral equivalence. There is no room for ‘both-sideism.’ There is no room for ambiguity.”

    The letter noted that the signatories were “horrified to see Pro-Palestinian rallies on campus in which the massacres by Hamas were celebrated, including explicit calls for violence (including chanting ‘Intifada’ or event advertisements featuring images of weapons/violence). Such celebrations create an atmosphere of fear; one cannot imagine that UCLA will allow for celebrations of the killing of George Floyd, or for celebrations of the Armenian genocide, or the celebrations of the 9/11 attacks.” ………..

    They concluded their letter by calling on the university to “denounce in the strongest possible terms any celebrations of Hamas terror attacks and killings” and to “take firm steps (including a public statement) to denounce any campus rallies crossing the line from speech to incitement, such as those rallies where speakers call for violence and spilling blood.” They also urged the university to “hold student groups and UCLA community members accountable who directly participate in such incitement.” Additionally, the faculty lobbied the university to designate “Hamas as a terrorist organization.”
    …………
    …………A university spokesperson told the Journal that the chancellor is currently working on a response to the faculty letter.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (e6dcbe)

  106. “Six weeks, she just found out she’s pregnant, the odds are,” Bigelow told the outlet. “It’s a sham. It’s make-believe. It’s condescending.”

    Then she has to get two ultrasounds and two doctors appointments to confirm the gestational age before she can schedule an abortion — which must be before 6 weeks gestational age. I bet you that Medicaid appointments don’t happen that fast.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  107. Just when you thought that L.A. traffic could get no worse:

    10 Freeway in downtown L.A. shut down after fire

    Indefinitely. The belief is that the fire may have melted structural rebar. If so, the affected area needs to be demoed and replaced. This area is adjacent to the intersection of I-10, I-5, CA-60 and US-101, blocking the I-10 eastbound feeder to that intersection and all westbound ramps from those freeways to I-10, just south and east of downtown Los Angeles.

    It’s a problem.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  108. “58.5% of the GOP is in a cult.”

    The GOP and its internet enablers no longer care about lying. Truth now equals what makes Trump happy. I fear too that the cultists will rationalize cheating in the 2024 election based on Trump’s unfounded allegations and insinuations of mass Democratic cheating. Is violence far behind it? We have a battle for reality that is not going well. Ramaswamy is just the latest incarnation of GOP rot.

    Right Wing Media is making too much money peddling the grievances of Trumpism to turn against him. One would think that FNC learned an expensive lesson with the Dominion case but I fear it just learned to cover its tracks better and control what goes on live (ie, Trump and his sons no longer are interviewed live). Cults need propagandists and there is money in it.

    And there is a sunk fallacy aspect to this as well. Trumpism has really only won one election cycle. Otherwise it has dreadfully underperformed, especially in 2022 when there should have been a red tidal wave rather than the red trickle. The losing and criminality is just causing the cult to double down. They need validation. If Trump won in 2020, then he will win again in 2024. People that know better about 2020 fear upsetting the cult.

    If (or when) the GOP chooses to nominate a felon is pretty much the end of this version of the GOP. With all that is known and with all that Trump has said and done, there are no excuses. We are talking minority status until Right Wing Media loses too much influence and credibility. Correction will require a come-to-Jesus moment by that media.

    AJ_Liberty (e11bff)

  109. For some reason I am unable to post a link to Google maps. The site behaves oddly, resetting to the main page.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  110. And there is a sunk fallacy aspect to this as well. Trumpism has really only won one election cycle.

    You don’t get it. This is 3rd-party disease. It’s NOT about winning at all. It’s about posturing, acting out and otherwise expressing one’s feelings. It’s not about winning the argument, it’s about having a good rant.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  111. AJ, I have some hope that when the facts come out at trial that *some* of his support will fade. They are not all cultists — some of them are just fellow travelers. They may decide that this horse is done for and seek another.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  112. “it’s about having a good rant.”

    I agree with that. Trump is their megaphone. They want the loudest yeller regardless of his electability.

    AJ_Liberty (e11bff)

  113. “*some* of his support will fade”

    As Rip opines, will it be too late? These cases really needed to start this year, not next year. The only possibility will be that a conviction will propel voter’s remorse….but there’s nothing certain in that hope.

    AJ_Liberty (e11bff)

  114. The GA trial will be televised. If only federal trials had to be open.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  115. I do think that the argument that Trump would run roughshod over the Constitution is a losing one. This is exactly what his supporters want. If his first act was to intern federal judges appointed by Democrats, there would be such a cheer.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  116. Federal trials aan be recorded, and they are often enough put on closed circuit TV to an overflow room,and the recording can legally be released, and parts of it have been, and they can probably legally be released at the end of each day or even on a 7 or 15 second tape delay.

    Sammy Finkelman (c803ec)

  117. Ayaan Hirsi Ali: Why I am now a Christian

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  118. The 6th Amendment demands a public trial. Unlike every single right in the Constitution, it is now pretty much as it was in 1791 — public only to those that can fit in a physical courtroom, or perhaps nearby. In trials like Trump’s, those persons will be chosen by the Court. How long can this “public trial” fiction be sustained?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  119. It looks like Nikki Haley is trying to have it both ways, right? You’re “scum” if you mention her kids, but it’s a-okay to have them sign fundraising solicitations for you?

    One is positive and voluntary; the other is negative and involuntary.

    But the whole discussion went of course when using TikTok got treated like a character flaw, which possibly it was for Vivek R. What was he saying on TikTok? Who was he aiming at? People who believed disinformation?

    I suppose Nikki Haley was not more particular in her complaint about Vivek, because she wants the votes of deluded people also.

    Sammy Finkelman (c803ec)

  120. In a Trump-Biden race, CA will go 70% for Biden. But if they have a centrist 3rd choice all bets are off.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/11/2023 @ 6:15 pm

    Aye, that’s the rub. Who is Godot-it’s not Manchin, his current support for fossil fuels won’t receive any support along the vote rich coastal corridor between San Francisco to San Diego, and ditto for Paul Ryan’s past support for Social Security privatization and Medicare “reform”. Both policies would be DOA in California.

    But any “centrist” needs to qualify for the ballot first. Good luck.

    Rip Murdock (4b4c41)

  121. “Trumpism has really only won one election cycle. Otherwise it has dreadfully underperformed, especially in 2022 when there should have been a red tidal wave rather than the red trickle.”

    This can be pinned on “Trumpism” only if you spell it “D O B B S.” But then, I suppose we can blame Trump for giving conservatives exactly what they asked for, for decades. Or, do we blame the Federalist Society, since we don’t want to credit Trump with court picks? The solution from the non-cultists, as anyone who is old enough to remember the GOP before 2016, is to rile up the base with conservative policy proposals and not actually deliver on any of them. Win, by losing. We were to begin to think about possibly maybe moving our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem as Bush put it saliently and forcefully, for example. Maybe Harriet Miers would’ve saved conservatives from Dobbs.

    But in other areas non-cultists can count victories in saving conservatives from their principles, such as the complete gutting of voter identification. Polls used to be biased against conservative candidates, now it’s reversed. The voter demographic that has to have their ballot spoon fed to them is also (surprise) the demographic that pretty much has to have everything in life spoon fed to them, and they typically don’t bother with polls but do bother voting D when the ballot and pencil are pushed into their hands. But, this was the price for being rid of Trump, much like the political weaponization of the justice system is now an acceptable price. And now, any R who isn’t polling 5 points ahead of the D is most probably going to lose. But as everyone knows, the mark of a non-cultist is to blame this on Trump and right wing media. And when Trump is long gone and R is still losing elections, and a red wave never ever materializes, there will always be the ghost of Trump to blame.

    lloyd (12f2bc)

  122. Elections sometimes turnout the right way, and not because the electorate is different there but because the political environment is different, and they could turn out different in more places if the right people did the right thing.

    In Pittsburgh, a normal DA was re-elected.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/pittsburgh-voters-stop-a-soros-backed-prosecutor-candidate-27ef2ac7

    Stephen Zappala, a lifelong Democrat, has been the district attorney in Allegheny County since 1998. He won a seventh term Tuesday with an unusual strategy: He ran as a Republican.

    In May, Mr. Zappala lost a Democratic primary to Matt Dugan by more than 10 points. Mr. Dugan is a George Soros-funded progressive who promised to take Pittsburgh and its surrounding area down the same path taken by soft-on-crime prosecutors in San Francisco and Philadelphia. His campaign raked in nearly $2 million from the Soros-backed Pennsylvania Justice and Public Safety PAC.

    Fearing that the far-left Mr. Dugan would win the Democratic nod, GOP officials got creative. There was no Republican candidate running for district attorney, so former Gov. Tom Corbett and others urged voters to write in Mr. Zappala’s name. He won the nomination, setting up a rematch with Mr. Dugan in November’s general election.

    Democrats enjoy a 2-to-1 registration advantage in Allegheny County, so Mr. Dugan could have expected to coast to victory. Instead, an unexpected coalition of Republicans, Democrats and independents formed behind Mr. Zappala and stiff-armed the Soros agenda….

    What I don’t understand is how, if there was no Republican candidate, they were able to hold a primary. There wouldn’t be one in New York without at least two candidates vying for the spot,or at least one. Otherwise there’s no spot for a write-in.

    Something is missing from this story.

    The other year the mayor waqs re-elected in Buffalo after losing the Democratic primary,

    Sammy Finkelman (c803ec)

  123. Minnesota Supreme Court rejects bid to bar Trump from primary ballot
    …………..
    “There is no state statute that prohibits a major political party from placing on the presidential nomination primary ballot, or sending delegates to the national convention supporting a candidate who is ineligible to hold office,” wrote Chief Justice Natalie Hudson.
    …………..
    Hudson didn’t rule out wading into a future lawsuit if one is filed over Trump’s general election status if he is the Republican nominee.

    “Although the Secretary of State and other election officials administer the mechanics of the election, this is an internal party election to serve internal party purposes, and winning the presidential nomination primary does not place the person on the general election ballot as a candidate for President of the United States,” she wrote in the four-page order.
    …………..
    Early voting ahead of Minnesota’s March presidential primary starts Jan. 19, which is why election administrators wanted a decision by early January.
    …………..
    Hudson asked (attorney Ron Fein), who represented the petitioners, if keeping a presidential an otherwise qualified candidate off the ballot would be prudent for a state court, saying “Should we do it even if we could do it and we can do it?”

    She also said at one point: “Insurrection might be in the eye of the beholder. It depends on who is doing the beholding.”
    …………

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  124. The 6th Amendment demands a public trial. Unlike every single right in the Constitution, it is now pretty much as it was in 1791 — public only to those that can fit in a physical courtroom, or perhaps nearby. In trials like Trump’s, those persons will be chosen by the Court. How long can this “public trial” fiction be sustained?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/12/2023 @ 9:51 am

    Donald Trump agrees.

    ………..
    In a bombastic legal filing submitted late Friday to the judge who’s scheduled that trial to begin in March, Trump’s attorneys argued he’s the victim of political persecution by President Joe Biden’s administration and should be allowed to use the platform of TV to showcase the proceedings’ unfairness.
    …………..
    Last month, news organizations filed formal motions with Chutkan seeking permission to offer live coverage of the trial. The news outlets cited the unusual degree of interest in the trial and the challenges the court is likely to face in trying to accommodate spectators in the courthouse near Capitol Hill.

    Democratic lawmakers and news outlets also asked the policymaking body for the federal courts, the Judicial Conference, to grant an exception to the broadcasting ban so that the Trump D.C. trial could be televised. However, at a meeting last month, a committee of that conference said that it lacked authority to grant an exception and that changing the rule would take years.
    ………….
    Trump’s attorneys said he favors TV coverage of the Washington trial in part because it will allow the public to “hear all the evidence regarding an election that President Trump believes was rigged and stolen.”
    ………….
    Trump’s lawyers linked their call for broad public access to bitter rhetoric against the prosecutors and the Biden administration, arguing that that TV coverage of the trial would ensure “the American public can see firsthand that this case, just like others, is nothing more than a dreamt-up unconstitutional charade that should never be allowed to happen again.”
    ……………

    The fastest way for this trial to be televised is if Congress passes legislation overruling the federal rule to allow it, which is highly unlikely.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  125. Rip Murdock (8e793c) — 11/12/2023 @ 11:37 am

    More:

    ………….
    NBCUniversal News Group filed its own request to televise Donald Trump‘s election conspiracy trial, citing the extraordinary circumstances of a former president facing criminal charges.
    …………..
    “ No compelling or substantial government interest supports restricting public access to a minuscule number of reporters and a handful of members of the public who can physically access the courtroom in Washington, D.C. to see and hear what happens,” the NBCU legal team wrote.

    They argued that Chutkan “need only apply clear, everyday principles of statutory interpretation to determine that it already has authority to permit video and audio of these proceedings.” They noted that a Federal Rule of Criminal Procedures prohibits “broadcasting only ‘from the courtroom.’” They noted that it does not prohibit media outlets from using a pool camera, with the feed relayed to studios and then transmitted “outside the courtroom.” The rule also does not restrict Chutkan from using its own equipment to capture the proceedings that networks can then use, they wrote.

    …………(I)f the federal rule “were construed to impose a complete ban on creating and disseminating audiovisual content of criminal trials, that ban would, as applied to this trial, violate the First Amendment.” Among other things, they noted that the rule would be restricting public access to the appearance and demeanor of trial participants, and that it would be applying a different standard to civil proceedings, where federal courts have allowed some video access. Moreover, they wrote that the government has to overcome the First Amendment “strict scrutiny” applied to other content-based regulations.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  126. Bari Weiss’s essay, “End DEI”, is insightful. And, like everything else I’ve read by her, it has a clarity that more of us should try to emulate.

    Sample: “What I saw [20 years ago as an undergraduate] was a worldview that replaced basic ideas of good and evil with a new rubric: the powerless (good) and the powerful (bad). It replaced lots of things. Colorblindness with race-obsession. Ideas with identity. Debate with denunciation. Persuasion with public shaming. The rule of law with the fury of the mob.”

    Judging people by the color of their skin, rather than the content of their character.

    Having such heterodox ideas forced her to leave the NYT. In spite of her ticking several “diversity” boxes.

    Jim Miller (f497eb)

  127. @121, Herschel Walker might have been the only Republican who could have lost that Georgia Senate seat. Who endorsed him? Mehmet Oz was beaten by a guy hobbled by a stroke. Who endorsed him over Gulf War veteran and highly successful hedge fund manager David McCormick…because McCormick wouldn’t sufficient kiss Trump’s butt? Kari Lake lost in Arizona? Doug Mastriano lost big in Pennsylvania. Both had primary rivals who weren’t election deniers. Both preached election denialism. Who endorsed both?

    Take some freakin’ responsibility…finally.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  128. This was Trump’s “emotional frothing” from yesterday.

    In honor of our great Veterans on Veteran’s Day, we pledge to you that we will root out the Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our Country, lie, steal, and cheat on Elections, and will do anything possible, whether legally or illegally, to destroy America, and the American Dream. The threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous, and grave, than the threat from within. Despite the hatred and anger of the Radical Left Lunatics who want to destroy our Country, we will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

    So many questions.
    What does he mean by “root out”? Oxford defines the term as “find and get rid of a harmful or dangerous person or thing,” so how does Trump find and get rid of this “vermin”? “Get rid of” sounds threatening and authoritarian. Does it mean expulsion? Deportation? Jail? Firing? Death penalty?

    How does he identify these “Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs”? What legal authority does Trump have to get rid of these identified “vermin” for the “crime” of political differences? Sounds kind of fascist to me.

    Trump said that these offending characters–who are apparently more “sinister, dangerous, and grave” than “outside forces” such as Putin, Xi, Kim, Khameini, al Qaeda and the Islamic State–“live like vermin”. Is that how they’re identified? What do they do specifically that is vermin-like that they can be found and got rid of?

    Anyhoo, this is the guy who has 58.5% party support for nomination for president. Meantime, Haley is vilified by BuDuh for having a flash of anger at a Trump Mini-Me. But was there any condemnation for his attack? No.
    SMDH.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  129. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/11/2023 @ 4:10 pm

    Beshear had the “Jerry Brown” advantage-son of a popular governor and a successful first term.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  130. “this is the guy who has 58.5% party support for nomination for president”

    Also SMDH

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  131. In a bombastic legal filing submitted late Friday to the judge who’s scheduled that trial to begin in March, Trump’s attorneys argued he’s the victim of political persecution by President Joe Biden’s administration and should be allowed to use the platform of TV to showcase the proceedings’ unfairness.

    The petition may be bombastic — Trump hires stupid lawyers — but the complaint is not.

    The entire point of the 6th Amendment’s public trial requirement is to offer the defendant an open forum. The State, of course, would prefer its prosecutions to be held in camera — what was once called a Star Chamber — so that any unfairness can be kept out of the public eye.

    In 1791, when the Amendment was passed, the epitome of a public trial was a open physical courtroom. Also, guns were muskets and the press was hand-pressed broadsheets. Since then the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments have been expanded (and imposed on the states) as have other parts of the 6th. The 8th Amendment has interpretations that might surprise the Founders.

    But that open trial is just like it was in 1791 despite about 9 orders of magnitude of expansion of communications.

    Trump is right to complain and I hope he wins. Someone will someday soon — it’s a terrible injustice to each and every defendant. A televised trial may be more important than having an attorney in some cases. It might also help the State in other cases.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  132. The fastest way for this trial to be televised is if Congress passes legislation overruling the federal rule to allow it, which is highly unlikely.

    No, the fastest way is for the Supreme Court to expand the right to a public trial. Fixed camera(s) and audio, streamed, would be sufficient. The way that district courts feel free to declare laws invalid nationally, I see no reason why a district court judge couldn’t impose a “constitutional” rule in her own courtroom.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  133. What does the prosecutor think about a pool camera stream? Assuming that his case is strong, I think he’d prefer to have the evidence public so that Trump’s paid liars have less wiggle room.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  134. Beshear had the “Jerry Brown” advantage-son of a popular governor and a successful first term.

    Brown’s advantages were a heavy registration advantage and a divided opposition (early MAGA types would not vote for Whitman). Those outweighed the family thing. And Pat Brown was defeated for re-election in 1966, so how popular was he?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  135. @134 are we talking about Brown’s first two terms or second two terms?

    SamG (4e6c22)

  136. the petition may be bombastic — Trump hires stupid lawyers

    He hires loyal lawyers.

    Sammy Finkelman (c803ec)

  137. Tim Scott is suspending his campaign for President.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  138. should have refreshed before posting, smh

    SamG (4e6c22)

  139. And Pat Brown was defeated for re-election in 1966, so how popular was he?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/12/2023 @ 3:13 pm

    Pat Brown was running for a third term when he lost. In his first election he won 59-40 and his second term 52-47 (over Nixon). He wore out his welcome when he lost to Reagan in 42-57 in 1966.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  140. I’ve said that Vivek (Rhymes With Fake) has a freshman-level understanding of foreign policy, but his proposal to cut federal spending is sophomoric. It’s populist twaddle

    On Day 1, *instantly* fire 50% of federal bureaucrats.

    Here’s how: if your SSN ends in an odd number, you’re fired.

    But Ramaswamy is a Trump Mini Me, the Full-Sized Trump is still worse. Like how Putin portrays the adversaries who resist him as “Nazis”, Trump likens his adversaries as “enemy of the people“…

    During his years as president, Donald Trump regularly called his critics or opponents “enemies of the people.” Consider Thanksgiving Day 2020. The president said of Brad Raffensperger, “He’s an enemy of the people.”

    Raffensperger is the secretary of state of Georgia. He had refused to cooperate with Trump in the falsifying of the presidential election, just held. Raffensperger and his wife received a barrage of death and rape threats.

    Many people were killed as “enemies of the people” under Stalin, under the Khmer Rouge, etc. Was Trump aware of this history? Aware of the pedigree — the awful, bloody pedigree — of “enemy of the people”?

    Today, “America First” is a slogan in our politics — as of yore. The America First movement began in September 1940, a year after the Nazis and the Soviets invaded Poland, thereby starting World War II. As I wrote in an article last year,

    America Firsters were a mixture of genuine isolationists and genuine Nazi sympathizers. The notion of “America First” was discredited for decades after. An odor emitted from it.

    Then came Pat Buchanan’s presidential campaigns of the 1990s. He revived the concept — the concept and the slogan. Twenty years later, Trump brought back “America First” in a big way. “America First” trips off the Republican tongue.

    …”vermin“, which has fascist undertones…

    Art Spiegelman, the Pulitzer Prize–winning author of Maus and Maus II, the graphic novels in which he drew Jews as mice and their Nazi captors as menacing cats, explained some years ago to The New York Review of Books how he hit upon the idea:

    I began to read what I could about the Nazi genocide, which really was very easy because there was actually rather little available in English. The most shockingly relevant anti-Semitic work I found was The Eternal Jew, a 1940 German “documentary” that portrayed Jews in a ghetto swarming in tight quarters, bearded caftaned creatures, and then a cut to Jews as mice—or rather rats—swarming in a sewer, with a title card that said “Jews are the rats” or the “vermin of mankind.” This made it clear to me that this dehumanization was at the very heart of the killing project. In fact, Zyklon B, the gas used in Auschwitz and elsewhere as the killing agent, was a pesticide manufactured to kill vermin—like fleas and roaches.

    If you feel that you need additional backup, just go to Google Images and type in “Jewish vermin.” You’ll get the picture in a hurry. Here’s one cartoon from an Austrian newspaper in 1939 depicting Jewish refugees as scurrying rats. There are literally hundreds, maybe thousands of such images.

    Trump, let us clarify, does not mean Jews. He means some Jews—the ones who aren’t for him, which come to think of it is most Jews. And by the way, to drop that rhetorical bomb at this time, when antisemitism is raging across the country because of what’s happening in the Middle East, is especially outrageous. But Trump’s vermin are not a racial category. No, Trump’s rats are a much broader category, and in that sense an even more dangerous one—he means whoever manages to offend him while exercising their constitutionally guaranteed right to register dissent and to criticize him.

    And no, he’s not going to be throwing anybody in a gas chamber. But that’s a pretty low bar for un-American behavior; that is, fascism was not so bad until it started exterminating people?

    My party’s frontrunner.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  141. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/12/2023 @ 3:05 pm

    The Supreme Court will need a “case or controversy” in order to rule on cameras in courtroom. It won’t rule by fiat.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  142. Pence and Scott should take the next step and endorse Haley.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  143. Pence and Scott should take the next step and endorse Haley.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 11/12/2023 @ 7:02 pm

    They may, but their voters aren’t Haley voters. They certainly don’t share Haley’s “position” on abortion. I think they are more likely to support DeSantis (at least in Iowa).

    Pence and Scott polling numbers are so small nationally it won’t make much difference in the end. Trump will still be in the high 50s/low 60s nationally.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  144. “Tim Scott ran an optimistic, hopeful message — but that’s not where the Republican base is right now,” a GOP official who supported Scott told CNN.

    Ain’t that the truth.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  145. Every once in a while there’s a gem in the Disqus commenting dung.

    Tim Scott ends campaign.

    Not enough money for a fake girlfriend.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  146. IIRC the preferred second option for the non-Trump candidates’ supporters is usually Trump – not another non-Trump option.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  147. Pence and Scott should take the next step and endorse Haley.

    Indeed. I cannot see Pence wanted to be Veep again, and I doubt that Scott would want to either. At least not behind Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  148. IIRC the preferred second option for the non-Trump candidates’ supporters is usually Trump – not another non-Trump option.

    Not Pence. Probably not Haley or Scott — wrong sex and/or color. Maybe DeSantis. But there must be some who want to win; Trump will be Jacob Marley by the time these trials are over.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  149. I doubt that Scott would want to (be VP) either. At least not behind Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/12/2023 @ 9:17 pm

    Why not? Scott has consistently defended Trump after every indictment, and has never questioned Trump’s actions. Besides, it will be the closest he gets to the WH now, and a VP Scott may even succeed Trump if he is impeached or become the front runner in 2028.

    Strike while the iron is hot.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  150. All trump has to say is who wares higher heels Nicky or ron? Besides its hard to run when your more loathsome then even trump.

    asset (c08f3c)

  151. “Why not? Scott has consistently defended Trump after every indictment, and has never questioned Trump’s actions.”

    I’m not sure that Scott is a good enough campaigner for what Trump will need. With Kim Reynolds dead to Trump, I still believe that Kristi Noem is the front runner for VP. And though Trump is spiking some interest with blacks and latinos, he is more desperate to have a woman on the ticket….even one scandalously linked to Corey Lewandowski.

    And if not Noem, then Kari Lake. Scott can deliver a Pence-like Renfield performance but he lacks that slavish devotion that is required to jump into a barrel and head over Niagra. Lake is made for the barrel. Trump, if convicted, will need someone to make that Pacino Arthur Kirkland “you’re out of order” tear-the-system-apart speech. That’s just not Scott who chose “curtains” to go after Haley. Curtains is a perfect metaphor for Scott’s campaign.

    AJ_Liberty (00e434)

  152. “Vermin” is for the Deplorables. And they each have their own. Black people, brown people, illegal aliens, all aliens, gays, people who drive electric vehicles ….

    nk (2c0250)

  153. https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/11/13/london-has-fallen-n591974

    And in the real world unfettered immigration has consequences, namely antisemitism and the open support for the enemies of a nation while citizens are arrested for speaking out against this evil.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  154. Britain’s colonial chickens coming home to roost. And at long last, the British can find something decent to eat at home, instead of having to travel around the world.

    nk (2c0250)

  155. “Unfettered immigration”. That’s funny. Particularly in reference to the British. Tell it to Indians. Both kinds.

    nk (2c0250)

  156. Spokesman denies that Trump rhetoric echoes that of dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and declares that those who say it does will find “their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House.”

    Apparently the only law Trump still obeys is Poe’s Law.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  157. I know more than a few dyed-in-the-wool (orange) Trump supporters. When you ask them “Why?, they say: “He gives us what we want.”

    His rants may be a garbage heap to us, but to them it’s a treasure trove from which they can glean whatever suits their need or strikes their fancy and leave that which they cannot use.

    nk (2c0250)

  158. #153 “.. . people who drive electric vehicles ….”

    Including golf carts?

    Jim Miller (be7a38)

  159. Jim, historically, if you look over the last million years, it has been largely true that if you’re a star, they let you drive a golf cart. Not always, but largely true. Fortunately … or unfortunately.

    nk (2c0250)

  160. Clearly, few here follow the UFC…VP might already be locked up. Cameron losing in KY may have thrown cold water on a Black running mate.

    urbanleftbehind (f2e860)

  161. RIP: Maryanne Trump Barry, former judge, 86

    Maryanne Trump Barry, the older sister of former President Donald Trump and a former federal judge, has died, according to sources. She was 86 years old.

    She was discovered in her Fifth Avenue apartment at about 4 a.m., sources told ABC News. There were no signs of trauma or foul play.

    Emergency crews responded to a call of a person in cardiac arrest, the sources said.

    Barry was a senior judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit until she retired in 2019. She was appointed to the U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey by then-President Ronald Reagan in 1983 and was then appointed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit in 1999 by then-President Bill Clinton.

    Barry retired amid an investigation into judicial misconduct related to alleged fraudulent tax and financial transactions made by her father and siblings. The investigation was closed without a conclusion when Barry retired in February 2019.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  162. “their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House.”

    This is the sentiment that animates the core of Trump’s followers. We’ve already seen his plan for concentration camps for millions of undocumented immigrants. It’s not hard to see how this could play out for disloyal residents as well.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  163. VP Scott may even succeed Trump if he is impeached or become the front runner in 2028.

    One of those things is not like the other thing. Pence did not benefit from being Trump’s VP, why should anyone else think that they will survive Trump’s chaos?

    Scott is well-liked. Trump is well-disliked.
    Scott has a moral code. Trump is a sociopath.
    Scott is a Senator, and can affect things. A VP is a Zeppo.

    Only two sitting VPs have won the following election: George Bush and Martin van Buren. It’s not the way to bet, and both followed immensely successful presidents, which Trump is unlikely to be.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  164. Cameron losing in KY may have thrown cold water on a Black running mate.

    Cameron lost because he went full Trump and full-Trump voters are suspicious of Affirmative Action candidates.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  165. Flashback August 2020:

    “All he wants to do is appeal to his base,” (Maryanne Trump) Barry said in a conversation secretly recorded by her niece, Mary L. Trump. “He has no principles. None. None. And his base, I mean my God, if you were a religious person, you want to help people. Not do this.” (referring to the Trump Administration’s immigration child separation policies).

    Barry, 83, was aghast at how her 74-year-old brother operated as president. “His go*damned tweet and lying, oh my God,” she said. “I’m talking too freely, but you know. The change of stories. The lack of preparation. The lying. Holy sh*t.”
    ……….
    At one point Barry said to her niece, “It’s the phoniness of it all. It’s the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel.”
    ………
    Barry told how she tried to help her brother get into college. “He was a brat,” Barry said, explaining that “I did his homework for him” and “I drove him around New York City to try to get him into college.”
    ………
    Under New York law, it is legal to tape a conversation with the consent of one party, which in this case was Mary Trump.
    ………
    “He had Roy Cohn call Reagan about needing to appoint a woman as a federal judge in New Jersey,” Barry told Mary. “Because Reagan’s running for reelection, and he was desperate for the female vote.” Then, she said, “I had the nomination,” and Donald Trump never let Barry forget it.
    ……….
    Barry said she told her brother: “You say that one more time and I will level you.” She told Mary that it was “the only favor I ever asked for in my whole life.” She said that she deserved the nomination “on my own merit” and that she was subsequently elevated to higher judicial posts without her brother’s intervention.

    “Donald is out for Donald, period,” Barry said.

    Mary questioned Barry about what he had accomplished on his own.

    “I don’t know,” Barry said.
    ………
    “Well he has five bankruptcies,” Barry said. (Trump’s companies filed for six corporate bankruptcies but he has never declared personal bankruptcy.)
    ………
    Maryanne said on another occasion that her brother kept asking about Fox News. One day, Barry said, the president called her and said, “Did you watch Fox News?”

    “No,” Barry said she told the president.

    “Why not?” he said.

    “I don’t watch much television at all,” Barry said she responded.

    “What do you do?” the president asked.

    “I read,” Barry replied.

    “What do you read?” the president said.

    “Books,” Barry said.

    The president was incredulous. “You don’t watch Fox?”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  166. Pence did not benefit from being Trump’s VP, why should anyone else think that they will survive Trump’s chaos?

    Assuming Trump doesn’t serve a full term, whomever is VP will be in the perfect position to succeed him.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  167. One of those things is not like the other thing. Pence did not benefit from being Trump’s VP, why should anyone else think that they will survive Trump’s chaos?

    It’s called having options.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  168. Not being Trump’s VP gives you a lot more options.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  169. RIP:

    Chief Warrant Officer 3 Stephen Dwyer, 38, of Clarksville, Tenn.; Chief Warrant Officer 2 Shane Barnes, 34, of Sacramento, Calif.; Staff Sgt. Tanner Grone, 26, of Gorham, N.H.; Sgt. Andrew Southard, 27, of Apache Junction, Ariz.; and Sgt. Cade Wolfe, 24, of Mankato, Minn., were killed when their MH-60 Blackhawk “experienced an in-flight emergency” and crashed while conducting aerial refueling training, according to a Defense Department statement released Monday.

    All were members of the Army’s elite 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, known as the Night Stalkers. The team provides helicopter aviation support for special operations forces, flying commandos on secretive missions.
    ………..
    The New York Times reported the helicopter crashed off the coast of Cyprus, where the Pentagon has sent commando teams from the Joint Special Operations Command, including the Army’s Delta Force and the Navy’s SEAL Team 6, in case they are called on to help evacuate U.S. citizens from the region.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  170. Not being Trump’s VP gives you a lot more options.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/13/2023 @ 9:49 am

    None of which lead to the White House.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  171. None of which lead to the White House.

    Of the people now contending for the WH, none were Trump’s VP. Sure, Trump, but that’s a failure in process.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  172. Also, it now looks like Scott will not be “in the race through SC” as some had predicted.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  173. I do hope that Trump is not the nominee-apparent when New Mexico holds its primary on Stupid Tuesday (June 4).

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  174. “None of which lead to the White House.”

    I’ve never thought of Scott as having a compelling case for being President. He has an inspiring personal story, but no actual executive experience. I’m sure he’s gained some expertise on foreign affairs and defense by serving in Congress, but it isn’t especially evident in these debates. He should target a governorship or working in a GOP cabinet before attempting another run. I’m with Kevin that serving in a Trump cabinet or on a Trump ticket will just tarnish his image. Trump is a disaster waiting to happen if he wins the lottery and gets back in office. Trump operates by tarnishing everyone around him. Haley was a rare exception to get out without being slimed. The list of those who were slimed and who do not support Trump any longer is impressive. When you lose Bill Barr, that’s saying something.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  175. Also, it now looks like Scott will not be “in the race through SC” as some had predicted.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/13/2023 @ 10:18 am

    Even his campaign was surprised he quit.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  176. As I said in the past, South Carolinian voters like Tim Scott (72% approval in South Carolina), they just didn’t want him to be president (RCP average 7.8%).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  177. I do hope that Trump is not the nominee-apparent when New Mexico holds its primary on Stupid Tuesday (June 4).

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/13/2023 @ 10:58 am

    He probably will be.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  178. Supreme Court adopts code of conduct amid ethics scrutiny
    ………
    The court issued a 14-page document that included five canons of conduct on issues such as when justices should recuse themselves and what kind of outside activities they can engage in.

    “The undersigned justices are promulgating this Code of Conduct to set out succinctly and gather in one place the ethics rules and principles that guide the conduct of the Members of the Court,” the justices said in an attached statement. All nine justices signed the statement.

    Most of the rules outlined in the code are not themselves new, the statement said, but the lack of a published code “has led in recent years to the misunderstanding that the justices of this court, unlike all other jurists in this country, regard themselves as unrestricted by any ethics rules.”
    ……….
    Among other things the code requires justices to “uphold the integrity and independence of the judiciary” and “avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety in all activities.”
    ………
    The explanation of the rules notes, for example, that the approach to recusal in certain cases is tailored to the Supreme Court specifically. That’s because the court has only nine justices and cases cannot be reassigned to anyone else if several justices are required to step aside.

    As a result, while justices are required to follow the normal rules for deciding whether they need to recuse because of a conflict of interest, they also have what the court calls a “duty to sit” if at all possible.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  179. And his base, I mean my God, if you were a religious person, you want to help people. Not do this.” (referring to the Trump Administration’s immigration child separation policies).

    She was commenting here on his base, not on Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump. she said had no principles. (that’s why, for instance, he reversed himself on immigration from 2012 to 2015)

    He did it to cultivate a base.

    But his base was supposedly religious (you know, anti-abortion) so she couldn’t understand how they could also be for immigration enforcement to the point of separating children from parents. (and you could give other reasons)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  180. The president was incredulous. “You don’t watch Fox?”

    It wasn’t the only cable news network. Now the thing is, some people watched it, but not everyone. It made people feel informed.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  181. Nikki Haley also has sort of reversed herself, but tries to rationalize it as not really being cruel, pr that other values override it or something – what she is proposing only sounds harsh. she sasy/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us/nikki-haley-donald-trump-un-ambassador.html

    “OK, of the six to seven million that have come over since Biden did this — this is going to sound harsh — but you send them back. And the reason you send them back, the reason you send them back is because, my parents, they came here legally. They put in the time, they put in the price. I take care of my parents. They live with us. They’re 87 and 89. There’s not a time I’ve had dinner with my mom when she doesn’t say, ‘Are those people still crossing the border?’ And the reason is, they are offended by what’s happening on the border. And when you allow those six or seven million to come, to all those people who’ve done it the right way, you’re letting them jump the line.”

    It’s actually in most cases, do it illegally, or not do it at all. The law is designed to prohibit. They can’t acknowledge that. It’s based on the notion that keeping some people poor, keeps others middle class. Contrary to free market principles. (They don’t go into loyalty and such things except in passing.)

    The article says further:

    As governor of South Carolina, Ms. Haley signed some of the harshest immigration laws in the country in 2011, including measures that required police officers to check the immigration status of some people. But she tended to refrain from fire and brimstone in her language on the issue, and tended to describe immigrants and refugees as part of the fabric of American society.

    On the campaign trail now, Ms. Haley and her top rivals have spent months trying to outdo each other with extreme immigration proposals and rhetoric as the party’s primary base has veered hard right on the issue. Ms. Haley, the daughter of Indian American immigrants, has in particular wielded her background to significant effect as a messenger for hard-line proposals.

    But as Donald Trump’s sister said, that doesn’t seem to be consistent with do unto others and so on. So why does this make political sense??

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  182. @179

    …As a result, while justices are required to follow the normal rules for deciding whether they need to recuse because of a conflict of interest, they also have what the court calls a “duty to sit” if at all possible.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/13/2023 @ 12:00 pm

    Yeah, I understand where they’re coming from…

    But, that right there isn’t going to help with deflecting any current/future criticisms.

    whembly (5f7596)

  183. Nikki Haley distinguishes between people working and people not working. but this would not satisfy the restrictionists, who find anything they could possibly do problematical – and imports as well.

    . Has she forgotten that one feature of immigration law, since 1986, has been to prohibit employment? She’s just trying to avoid disagreeing with anyone. Including people who want more immigration:

    On a farm in a rural town in Iowa this fall, business owners welcomed a pledge from Ms. Haley to ease legal pathways for new workers as an effort to alleviate labor shortages.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  184. Whats the big deal a lot of people consider trump vermin? Anybody here think trump will exterminate his enemies?

    asset (2da2d3)

  185. He probably will be.

    I will still vote against him. Again.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  186. they also have what the court calls a “duty to sit” if at all possible.

    So, while a district court judge might recuse in a case involving a company they own piddling shares in, a justice would have to hold (and not want to sell) a significant holding. Not sure where that line is; more than $1000, less than $100K?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  187. Pence and Scott should take the next step and endorse Haley.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 11/12/2023 @ 7:02 pm

    Pence hasn’t endorsed anyone yet, but Scott has said he is not endorsing anyone.

    When asked by (Fox host Trey) Gowdy about endorsing another presidential candidate, Scott said, “The best way for me to be helpful is to not weigh in on who they should endorse.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  188. Anybody here think trump will exterminate his enemies?

    Maybe he just asks who will rid him of _______

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  189. Scott has said he is not endorsing anyone.

    For now. But I’d bet he’d like to be Secretary of Education.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  190. But, that right there isn’t going to help with deflecting any current/future criticisms.

    Like suing, anyone can criticize. Do you think that Pro Publica cares what the rules are?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  191. It’s actually in most cases, do it illegally, or not do it at all.

    These days, that’s an AND, not an OR. A friend of mine, who works for the US government, has been trying for the better part of a decade to get her Canadian husband admitted as a legal resident. It takes years now to get a hearing and their last hearing was cancelled due to Covid.

    It seems to me that the resources should be aimed at those legally immigrating, but that appears to be “wishcasting.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  192. To be clear, I said that Pence and Scott should endorse Haley. I make no predictions about what they’ll actually do, or not do.

    Burgum and Hutchinson and Christie might as well do the same and suspend their campaigns.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  193. Sooner or later, Speaker Mike Johnson will face a motion to vacate:

    After trashing the idea of a two-step strategy to fund the government, House Democrats signaled on Monday they are open to backing Speaker Mike Johnson’s plan, significantly lowering the threat of a painful shutdown at the end of the week.
    ……….
    On Monday afternoon, House Democratic leaders said they are considering supporting the Johnson strategy. And across the Capitol, Johnson’s plan got a bipartisan boost from Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., suggesting the continuing resolution or CR will likely cruise through the upper chamber if it can first pass out of the House. The lower chamber plans to take up the bill on Tuesday.
    ………
    ……… Johnson’s proposal, unveiled over the weekend, is a so-called “clean” CR with no spending cuts and no controversial policy riders, a significant concession to Democratic demands.

    The two-step approach would extend funding for part of the government — including Agriculture, Transportation and Veterans Affairs — through Jan. 19, and fund Defense and other remaining portions of the government through Feb. 2.
    ……….
    Already, at least eight House conservatives have said they will vote no on Johnson’s plan, and many more could join that group. After Rep.-elect Gabe Amo, D-R.I, is sworn in on Monday, Johnson can only afford to lose three Republicans on his funding bill.
    ……….
    ……….(T)he Johnson CR does not include other politically prickly issues like aid for Israel, Ukraine or Taiwan; humanitarian aid for Palestinians and others; as well as border security provisions.
    ……….
    The two-part CR had been conceived by members of the far-right Freedom Caucus who see the staggered funding cliffs as a way to put pressure on Congress to reach deals on individual appropriations bills. But conservatives blasted the Johnson plan for a variety of reasons, including that it didn’t include spending cuts or border provisions.

    “We got nothing, nothing but an extension of the farm bill tagged onto a $1.6 trillion continuation of existing spending policies,” Rep. Chip Roy, R-Texas, told reporters Monday. “I can in no way sell that to a single one of my constituents.”

    Other conservative Republicans opposing Johnson’s CR plan include Reps. Tim Burchett of Tennessee, Warren Davidson of Ohio, Bob Good of Virginia, Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, and George Santos of New York.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  194. Ouch!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  195. It’s not like the GOP has a majority — it’s a coalition government with MAGA.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  196. Ouch!

    Well, it wasn’t as bad as Senator Thompson’s 2008 campaign.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  197. It’s not like the GOP has a majority — it’s a coalition government with MAGA.

    Good one!

    nk (0949b8)

  198. It’s not like the GOP has a majority — it’s a coalition government with MAGA.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/13/2023 @ 3:49 pm

    That may be, but it’s the House Republican Conference’s problem to solve. As we saw with the last Speaker, passing a clean CR with Democratic support is no way to guarantee that a Speaker will be around for long.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  199. Well, it wasn’t as bad as Senator Thompson’s 2008 campaign.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/13/2023 @ 3:51 pm

    Actually, the Scott campaign was much worse. Thompson actually ran in five primaries or caucuses won 11 delegates.

    ………
    ……… He won 13% of the vote in the Iowa Republican caucuses, trailing Mike Huckabee (34%) and Mitt Romney (25%). John McCain also got 13%, but Thompson received more actual votes. Thompson won 3 of the 12 delegates in the Wyoming Republican County Conventions on January 5, 2008.

    On January 15, 2008, Thompson placed 5th in the Michigan Republican primary with 4% of the vote, winning no delegates. He received 8% of the vote and 2 delegates in the Nevada Caucuses, placing 5th, on January 19, 2008.

    On January 19, 2008, Thompson placed 3rd in the South Carolina primary with 16% of the vote, earning no delegates. Thompson was counting on a win in the southern conservative state to save his struggling campaign, and his poor showing was seen as a fatal blow to his candidacy.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  200. GOP race in Iowa remains virtually unchanged after Scott’s exit, poll finds
    ………..
    According to last month’s Iowa poll, former President Donald Trump led his nearest rivals, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley, by 27 points among likely Republican caucusgoers, with Scott in fourth place: Trump 43%, DeSantis 16%, Haley 16%, Scott 7%.

    But when Scott’s 7% support is reallocated to those voters’ second choices, the distribution is roughly even. In other words, the South Carolina senator’s disappearance from the race does little to help any of his non-Trump rivals catch up to the former president.
    ………
    The reallocated horserace numbers: Trump 45%, DeSantis 18%, Haley 18%, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie 4%, businessman Vivek Ramaswamy 4%, and North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum 3%.
    ###########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  201. I wonder what enforcement of the SCOTUS code of conduct will be, or who will do so. And why no financial disclosure required?

    SamG (4e6c22)

  202. This is the sentiment that animates the core of Trump’s followers. We’ve already seen his plan for concentration camps for millions of undocumented immigrants. It’s not hard to see how this could play out for disloyal residents as well.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/13/2023 @ 9:12 am

    If you’ve seen the plan, please share it with the rest of us.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  203. I wonder what enforcement of the SCOTUS code of conduct will be, or who will do so. And why no financial disclosure required?

    SamG (4e6c22) — 11/13/2023 @ 4:49 pm

    The Justices already comply with the financial disclosure requirements in the Ethics in Government Act.

    ………
    ……….For some time, all Justices have agreed to comply with the statute governing financial disclosure, and the undersigned Members of the Court each individually reaffirm that commitment.
    ……….
    Canon 4D(3) and 4H articulate the practice formalized in 1991 of individual Justices following the financial disclosure requirements and limitations on gifts, outside earned income, outside employment, and honoraria. Justices file the same annual financial disclosure reports as other federal judges. Those reports disclose, among other things, the Justices’ nongovernmental income, investments, gifts, and reimbursements from third parties. For purposes of sound judicial administration, the Justices file those reports through the Judicial Conference Committee on Financial Disclosure.
    ……….
    In regard to financial disclosure, the Justices will continue to seek guidance from the Office of Legal Counsel and the staff of the relevant Judicial Conference committees, including the Committee on Financial Disclosure, which reviews each Justice’s annual filing for compliance with applicable laws and regulations. The Office of Legal Counsel will maintain specific guidance tailored to recurring ethics and financial disclosure issues and will continue to provide annual training on those issues to Justices, chambers staff, and other Court personnel.
    ………

    Source

    Enforcement, however, is a good question.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  204. “We’ve already seen his plan for concentration camps for millions of undocumented immigrants. It’s not hard to see how this could play out for disloyal residents as well.”

    You’ve seen a story based on anonymous and unofficial sources interpreted by media outlets that have lied about Trump as easily as breathing air. Trump has said nothing about this. Not that there’s anything wrong with applying the rule of law to the border mess and those here illegally. It’s just that the self anointed Rule of Law arbiters don’t like it. No one is above the law, except those here illegally, and we know why.

    And those who would classify these as “concentration camps” are easy to identify. They’re the folks waving Israeli or Ukrainian flags, cheering border policies 1000 times more restrictive than ours.

    lloyd (2e8ce4)

  205. illegal aliens*

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  206. words matter

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  207. https://freebeacon.com/national-security/biden-mulls-approval-of-fresh-10-billion-payment-to-iran/

    Biden, like his leftist predecessor Obama, certainly loves him some Iran, the leading terrorist state in the world.

    But that’s okay, because mean tweets or murdering your own baby or something.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  208. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12744497/Bidens-migrant-crisis-cost-taxpayers-451-BILLION-Republican-healthcare-accommodation-Mayorkas-impeachment.html

    Half a trillion dollars. And that’s the bare minimum that the government will admit that illegal aliens are costing American taxpayers. But continue to support business as usual because you think you’ll be dead before the shell game collapses.

    Future generations will curse the leaders of this one for what they have done to the nation.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  209. @208 Biden doesn’t want a war with Iran and it wouldn’t take much to be in one. You ok with gas at $10 dollars or more a gallon? The pictures of the premature palestinian babies huddled together for warmth as they take the cold dead ones awayat the gaza hospital is not helping. If Its not a propaganda ploy and Israel has pictures of the beheaded babies at the kibbutz they better show them like now!

    asset (79dd93)

  210. @209 future generations will be to busy dealing with the effects of methane frozen at the bottom of the ocean slowly melting thanks to climate change and bubbling to the surface.

    asset (79dd93)

  211. Why is 58.5% of my party supporting a fascist for GOP standard-bearer?
    Trump: “We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country, that lie and steal and cheat on elections.”

    Hitler: “Should I not also have the right to eliminate millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?”

    Trump: “…we pledge to you that we will root out the Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs…”

    Hitler: “We must first root out the causes which led to our collapse and we must eliminate all those who are profiting by that collapse.”

    Trump: “The threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous, and grave, than the threat from within.”

    Hitler: “But we can see already how our racial peoples which are today still hostile to us will one day recognize the greater inner enemy.”

    Trump: “It’s poisoning the blood of our country. It’s so bad, and people are coming in with disease. People are coming in with every possible thing that you could have.”

    Hitler: “All the great civilizations of the past became decadent because the originally creative race died out, as a result of contamination of the blood. And so this poison was allowed to enter the national bloodstream and infect public life without the Government taking any effectual measures to master the course of the disease.”

    This isn’t about comparing Trump to Hitler, it’s to point out that Trump is a fascist, enabled by his own staff…

    Trump’s campaign responded by seemingly taking issue with the “ridiculous” framing. But in the same breath, it also promised that Trump’s “snowflake” critics’ “entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House.” (It later sought to amend that to “sad, miserable existence.”)

    Wake up, America.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  212. More about Trump’s fascism and his fascist enablers, from AllahNick.

    Seven years ago, Trump was more of a celebrity phenomenon than an ideological one. He had his nationalist priorities—tariffs, NATO skepticism, and of course the wall—but he benefited enormously simply from being the “not Hillary” candidate on the ballot. He was still enough of a normie Republican to sign a massive tax cut into law in 2017 and bring figures like Larry Kudlow and John Bolton into his administration. His post-liberal brain trust didn’t extend much further than Steve Bannon and Miller.

    He and everyone around him have been radicalized since then. Much of the radicalizing they did themselves, like when they concocted a dolchstosslegende about the “rigged election” of 2020 and then let the propaganda feedback loop in which they exist brainwash them into believing it. They were radicalized further by the drumbeat of indictments against Trump this year, which probably cinched the Republican primary for him. Both episodes taught them that personnel is power: He didn’t have the right people in place inside the government to carry out his coup or to obstruct the attempts to prosecute him and now he’s in all sorts of trouble.

    In a second term, his plans will focus heavily on correcting that mistake—even on the federal bench, perhaps, to the extent he’s capable of making that happen. Total unaccountability requires the cooperation of the bureaucracy. Personnel is everything.

    And because it is, that means many more people than Trump himself are now invested in carrying out his plans. Trump himself may be lazy, easily distracted, and persuadable by rational actors, but he’s building an organization of fascist apparatchiks that will make sure those who surround him in a second term will encourage his worst impulses instead of thwarting them.

    All of those apparatchiks “know what time it is.” They’re being selected based on their ability to tell the proverbial time. Listen to Bannon.

    You don’t need to take Trump seriously or literally if it makes you feel better not to do so, but take Bannon seriously. And Miller. And Kevin Roberts, and Jeffrey Clark. There are many, many stakeholders in the post-liberal project; Trump is their vehicle, and they intend to put him to good use.

    This is right-wing, not conservative.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  213. @212 “Why is 58.5% of my party supporting a fascist for GOP standard-bearer?”

    MAGA = swastika isn’t very original, and isn’t making the statement you think it’s making. We’ve seen Star of David = swastika here and here and here. What other leftist tropes inspire you?

    lloyd (e10c03)

  214. Immigration needs be addressed by Congress if we want real lasting change. The last time there were discussions on how to overhaul immigration were in 2013: the Senate passed a bill, and the GOP House never took it up.

    Probably a good time to remind all that the GOP has controlled the House for 20 of the last 30 years: in that time they’ve shut down the government 5 times, forced out their own Speaker 3 times, almost caused a debt default 2 times (at minimum), and only cut spending for 2 of those 20 years.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  215. What other leftist tropes inspire you?

    Cute, that calling out Trump’s fascist tropes is somehow “leftist”.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  216. https://spectator.org/how-george-floyd-actually-died/

    One can forgive the cops for not correctly diagnosing Floyd’s condition. Baker and the other state witnesses deserve no such grace. Quincy was stunned to learn that once Baker observed Floyd’s paraganglioma, he failed to test for catecholamines. Quincy had been taught that if a catecholamine producing tumor is found during the autopsy of someone who dies suddenly and unexpectedly, a catecholamine crisis is the prime suspect. Unless the lab results come back normal, it remains the prime suspect.

    “There is no way in God’s green Earth that Baker can honestly say [the paraganglioma] is an incidental finding without running the catecholamines,” says Quincy. “The absence of ordering these test convicts Baker’s lack of knowledge.”

    Dunn is a bit more cynical. “[Baker] didn’t know about catecholamine crisis? Never saw it?” scoffs Dunn. He discounts the wisdom of “Hanlon’s Razor” — “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity” — and opts instead for “the paranoid approach” — “Bad things spring from bad intentions.” Baker had a powerful incentive to fudge his findings, says Dunn. “He knows if he goes with the evidence, he likely loses his job and he and his family are at risk from the mob and his career will be extinguished.”

    If Quincy’s theory is correct — and Dunn believes it is — here is what happened. Floyd’s paraganglioma, set off when he was startled by Lane, released a large bolus of adrenaline into his circulation. This excessive catecholamine then overwhelmed his heart, causing acute heart failure. The severe acute heart failure then precipitated pulmonary edema leading to respiratory failure, hypoxia, and death.

    If Quincy is right, nothing the officers might have done would have reversed the course of Floyd’s demise. “Even if Floyd had made it to the hospital alive,” says Quincy, “he almost certainly would have expired.” The medical personnel would not have known he was having a catecholamine crisis. and would have found him profoundly hypotensive as a result of his acute heart failure The medical personnel would have administered adrenaline to bring his blood pressure back up. As Quincy observes, any additional adrenaline would be contraindicated in someone in a catecholamine crisis, which, once given, would have sealed his fate.

    That caught my eyes…

    I had a friend’s brother who later was found to have a catecholamine crisis and died in the emergency room. I don’t recall his tumor was “paraganglioma” specifically, but I remember the ‘tumor’ when it was discovered, and by everyone’s reaction…that explained it. The staff knew what happened after administering a dose of adrenaline when his blood pressure tanked, instead of stabilizing as expected.

    To my knowledge, those officers are SOL now, as no one is going to go back to court for this.

    whembly (5f7596)

  217. The ME testified under oath that Floyd’s death was a homicide. Of course there were contributing factors, but it was Chauvin’s act that ended his life.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  218. Paul, please define ‘homicide’ and get back to me.

    Narrator: No one is saying it wasn’t homicide.

    whembly (5f7596)

  219. Hillary was on the View. Her rants sounded familiar. Wonder why.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  220. Whemby,

    that trial was a sham and it was no different than mob justice. They had a preordained conclusion and refused to let facts get in the way.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  221. sorry I forgot to close my tag on the jury instructions.

    Time123 (b9890b)

  222. @220, Why are you watching the View? At it’s peak it was a pointless waste of time…and it’s a long way from those glory days. Did you lose a bet or feel the need to torture yourself as some sort of atonement? 🙂

    Time123 (b9890b)

  223. Why does Paul watch Trump rallies, Time?

    BuDuh (ce9621)

  224. CNN:

    Former President Donald Trump is planning a widespread expansion of his first administration’s hardline immigration policies if he is elected to a second term in 2024, including rounding up undocumented immigrants already in the US and placing them in detention camps to await deportation, a source familiar with the plans confirmed to CNN.

    ….

    News of the proposals comes after Trump at a rally in Florida on Wednesday promised to conduct “the largest domestic deportation operation in American history” and argued criminals were coming through the US-Mexico border and warned of “young, strong people that had bad intentions.”

    And on Saturday, Trump vowed to sign an executive order, on Day 1 of a potential second term, to cease funding the provision of shelter and transportation for undocumented immigrants, saying at a rally in New Hampshire that he would redirect a portion of the savings toward “shelter and treatment for our own homeless veterans.”

    ….

    Stephen Miller, a former senior Trump administration official who led Trump’s immigration policy, told The Times, “Any activists who doubt President Trump’s resolve in the slightest are making a drastic error: Trump will unleash the vast arsenal of federal powers to implement the most spectacular migration crackdown.”

    Miller told The Times that Trump’s immigration plans are being designed to avoid having to create new substantial legislation. During Trump’s first term, he relied heavily on executive orders to implement immigration policy. Many of those moves were challenged in the courts, something Miller acknowledged would be likely to happen again in a second Trump term.

    Tell me again how this is all from anonymous sources. Stephen Miller and Donald Trump are both advocating this. It’s what his supporters want.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  225. NYT:

    Former President Donald J. Trump is planning an extreme expansion of his first-term crackdown on immigration if he returns to power in 2025 — including preparing to round up undocumented people already in the United States on a vast scale and detain them in sprawling camps while they wait to be expelled.

    The plans would sharply restrict both legal and illegal immigration in a multitude of ways.

    Mr. Trump wants to revive his first-term border policies, including banning entry by people from certain Muslim-majority nations and reimposing a Covid 19-era policy of refusing asylum claims — though this time he would base that refusal on assertions that migrants carry other infectious diseases like tuberculosis.

    He plans to scour the country for unauthorized immigrants and deport people by the millions per year.

    To help speed mass deportations, Mr. Trump is preparing an enormous expansion of a form of removal that does not require due process hearings. To help Immigration and Customs Enforcement carry out sweeping raids, he plans to reassign other federal agents and deputize local police officers and National Guard soldiers voluntarily contributed by Republican-run states.

    To ease the strain on ICE detention facilities, Mr. Trump wants to build huge camps to detain people while their cases are processed and they await deportation flights. And to get around any refusal by Congress to appropriate the necessary funds, Mr. Trump would redirect money in the military budget, as he did in his first term to spend more on a border wall than Congress had authorized.

    In a public reference to his plans, Mr. Trump told a crowd in Iowa in September: “Following the Eisenhower model, we will carry out the largest domestic deportation operation in American history.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  226. Now, I know that to some CNN and the NYT don’t have the authority of Newsmax or The Epoch Times, but Trump is not denying any of this.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  227. Paul, please define ‘homicide’ and get back to me.
    Narrator: No one is saying it wasn’t homicide.

    One, no, I won’t do a simple task you can do yourself.
    Two, your own Jack Cashill denied it was a homicide.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  228. Let’s get physical:

    Rep. Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.) on Tuesday accused former Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) of elbowing him as he passed in a Capitol hallway and chased after the former House leader.
    ………
    ………McCarthy walked down the same hallway and appeared to bump into Burchett as he passed. Burchett says it was deliberate.

    Burchett called after McCarthy at the time, while McCarthy kept walking. Burchett acknowledged he chased after McCarthy.

    “I was like, ‘what the heck, you know, why did you do that?’” he said.

    In remarks to reporters later, McCarthy denied elbowing the congressman. But Burchett is not backing down.
    ……….
    “I said, ‘Hey, what the heck would you do that for?’ And he acted like, ‘Oh, I didn’t do anything, you know, and he’s just, he needs to go home back to Southern California,” Burchett said.
    ……….
    ……….Burchett accused McCarthy of being “a bully with $17 million in security.”

    “He’s the type of guy that, when you’re a kid would throw a rock over the fence, and run home and hide behind his momma’s skirt,” he said.
    XXXXXXXXX

    Ouch! Burchett is one of eight Republicans who voted to oust McCarthy from the House Speakership.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  229. Paul, please define ‘homicide’ and get back to me.

    “Death at the hands of another” as distinguished from “Natural cause”, “Accidental death”, “Suicide” or perhaps “Death by misadventure.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  230. Why does Paul watch Trump rallies, Time?

    Do I? News to me.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  231. Burchett is one of eight Republicans who voted to oust McCarthy from the House Speakership.

    And unlike some, did not even get his 15 minutes of fame. So, he tries again.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  232. Is Bakersfield Southern California or Central Valley?

    urbanleftbehind (e25c3f)

  233. House blocks Alejandro Mayorkas impeachment resolution
    ……….
    The impeachment measure introduced by GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia last week includes a single article that accuses Mayorkas of engaging “in a pattern of conduct that is incompatible with the laws” of the United States.

    Lawmakers were supposed to vote on a Democratic-led motion to table, or kill, the resolution. But Democrats instead brought a motion to refer the resolution to the Homeland Security Committee, making it easier for them to gain the support of moderate Republicans. Still, the referral has a similar effect.

    The House voted 209-201 in favor of sending the resolution to the committee, with eight Republicans voting with all Democrats.

    “I cannot believe this. I’m outraged,” Greene told reporters after the vote, adding that she may reintroduce the measure.
    ……….

    The eight Republicans that voted to refer the impeachment resolution to the Homeland Security Committee were Cliff Bentz (OR); Ken Buck (CO); John Duarte (CA); Virginia Foxx (NC); Darrell Issa (CA); Tom McClintock (CA); Patrick McHenry (NC); and Michael Turner (OH).

    Related:

    Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.) called fellow GOP Rep. Darrell Issa (Calif.) a p—- on Tuesday after he attacked her for lacking the “maturity and experience” to understand the proper way to bring an impeachment vote against Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

    In a post on X, formerly Twitter, Greene included a meme of former President Trump saying, “She said he’s a p—-.” The meme was a response to another post from her official House X account, which also attacked Issa.

    “Darrell Issa is right, I am a hardworking member of Congress who puts the American people first. But we all know what Darrell Issa lacks…,” Greene posted, before including emojis of five different sports balls.
    ………..
    Asked what he, as a seasoned member of Congress, thinks of Greene’s plan to bring a privileged resolution on a Mayorkas impeachment, Issa attacked her “maturity and experience.”

    “The history of privileged resolutions is that they’re brought by the majority leader or the minority leader. Privileged resolutions are not — have not historically been — brought by one member. And when they do come from one member, they’re most often referred to Committee, as it was yesterday,” he said.

    “You know, look, Marjorie Taylor Greene is a hardworking member of Congress. But she, I believe, she lacks the maturity and the experience to understand what she was asking for, and how ill prepared we would have been to do it on short notice on the floor,” he continued.
    ……….

    MTG, keeping it classy.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  234. Is Bakersfield Southern California or Central Valley?

    urbanleftbehind (e25c3f) — 11/14/2023 @ 9:44 am

    South San Joaquin Valley, a couple of hours from Los Angeles.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  235. It’s Central Valley.

    SamG (03d742)

  236. Kevin,

    what you’ve quoted says he’s deporting illegal aliens which is the obligation of the federal government. What you accused him of was creating “concentration camps.”

    Do you know the difference?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  237. Is Bakersfield Southern California or Central Valley?

    There are two definitions of SoCal. One is defined by the straight line formed by the top borders of San Luis Obispo, Kern and San Bernardino counties. This is the definition that Wikipedia uses. Another excludes SLO and Kern.

    Bakersfield is in Kern county.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  238. what you’ve quoted says he’s deporting illegal aliens which is the obligation of the federal government. What you accused him of was creating “concentration camps.”

    Do you?

    A “concentration camp” is where a government concentrates certain residents for purposes of holding them en masse. Not to be confused with “death camps” or “slave labor camps” although the term is sometimes misused. The WW2 Japanese-American internment camps were concentration camps.

    Don’t like the term? Think it’s pejorative? Tough. DO you have a touchy-feely term you’d prefer?

    Note that, given Trump’s claim that the children of ilelgals are not citizens, regardless of being born here, these camps would likely contain people that the Constitution considers American citizens.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  239. @229 Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 11/14/2023 @ 9:28 am

    I wasn’t referring to the author.

    But, hey, people don’t lie on the stand, ever.

    That’s your position and you’re sticking with it.

    My sweet, sweet summer child…bless your heart.

    whembly (5f7596)

  240. @235

    MTG, keeping it classy.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/14/2023 @ 9:52 am

    She’s a clown.

    I actually think eight Republicans, for whatever reason, is getting this right.

    MGT’s bill is designed to immediately send to floor the vote to impeach Mayorkas, which is unprecedented.

    What happens now, as it should, is that the committed that oversees the DHS dept is going to conduct hearings and then vote out of conference whether or not an impeachment vote should be sent to the floor.

    In short, the committee needs to build up a report justifying Mayorkas’ impeachment.

    If GOP is going to go through with impeachment, then they need to conduct it with the seriousness it deserves.

    MGT’s bill ain’t that.

    whembly (5f7596)

  241. MTG, keeping it classy.

    She is a twit, but there are twits on both extremes. She just makes it so easy to spot.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  242. I actually think eight Republicans, for whatever reason, is getting this right.

    Tom McClintock gets it right a lot.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  243. @240

    what you’ve quoted says he’s deporting illegal aliens which is the obligation of the federal government. What you accused him of was creating “concentration camps.”

    Do you?

    A “concentration camp” is where a government concentrates certain residents for purposes of holding them en masse. Not to be confused with “death camps” or “slave labor camps” although the term is sometimes misused. The WW2 Japanese-American internment camps were concentration camps.

    Don’t like the term? Think it’s pejorative? Tough. DO you have a touchy-feely term you’d prefer?

    Note that, given Trump’s claim that the children of ilelgals are not citizens, regardless of being born here, these camps would likely contain people that the Constitution considers American citizens.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/14/2023 @ 10:56 am

    I’m fine with it.

    I’m also fine, if at later point it was discovered one of the family member was born here, and as such is a citizen to stay here.

    But, something’s gotta give, and frankly if the government doesn’t take other drastic efforts to get a handle on illegal immigration, I’m worried it’d get even worst.

    Hypothetically, hear me out, lets say some extremist Islamist unhappy with US’ support snuck across the southern border and conducts operations in the US that’s similar to what Hamas did on Oct 7th.

    What’s your reaction?

    What’s the public’s likely reaction, particularly to border policies?

    My mind is going to very dark places… and I don’t like it.

    whembly (5f7596)

  244. I think of Congress as I do any large group. There’s a bell curve (or rather two bell curves with a gap in between). There are always the 2-sigma outliers and MTG and few others are on the GOP side. There are also those on the Left.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  245. My mind is going to very dark places… and I don’t like it.

    The problem that I see is that Trump’s mind is going to very dark places and he and many of his followers DO like it.

    I also know that when you let a problem fester long enough it becomes very hard to solve, and your two choices become drastic action or give up. The immigration problem is compounded by the incumbent law being wholly asinine. The way to deal with asinine laws is to enforce them rigorously until the legislature takes action.

    Now we are at a fork in the road and we have to take it, to paraphrase Yogi Berra.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  246. https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Phase4Report.pdf
    THIS… is what the GOP committees ought to use to build their profile as to why Mayorkas deserves impeachment.

    THIS… is a start.

    The cost to illegal immigration is approximated to $150 billion dollars a year. A year.

    That’s not nothing.

    ~166,000,000 US citizens filed taxes per year, which works out to costing each tax payers ~$900 averaged out.

    Again… every year.

    Unless something changes.

    whembly (5f7596)

  247. But, hey, people don’t lie on the stand, ever.
    That’s your position and you’re sticking with it.

    Prove the lie. What I’m sticking to is the medical expert who examined Floyd’s dead corpse right after he became a dead corpse, and then testified under the threat of felony perjury that Chauvin caused his death.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  248. @247

    My mind is going to very dark places… and I don’t like it.

    The problem that I see is that Trump’s mind is going to very dark places and he and many of his followers DO like it.

    I also know that when you let a problem fester long enough it becomes very hard to solve, and your two choices become drastic action or give up. The immigration problem is compounded by the incumbent law being wholly asinine. The way to deal with asinine laws is to enforce them rigorously until the legislature takes action.

    Now we are at a fork in the road and we have to take it, to paraphrase Yogi Berra.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/14/2023 @ 11:27 am

    That’s why I’m fine with Abbott and DeSantis sending illegals to New York or Martha’s Vinyard.

    Those places, who actively works against sound immigration policies, but rarely face any consequences, needs to feel the pain that the border states feel.

    Hopefully, then, there’s enough widespread pressure in Congress to address this crisis.

    Otherwise, my fears are that something heinous happens due to the open border policies, such that enough people support government officials doing heinous things.

    …and I honestly don’t think its going to be a 2nd Trump administration. A 2nd Trump administration would pale in comparison to some future politician who convinces that he/she has what it’d take to drastically cull the illegal immigration issue.

    Best things to do, is to dissuade economic migrates from illegally entering the country somehow.

    Ideally, the best method is to attack the incentives (or promote disincentives) in such a way that the illegals self-deports.

    whembly (5f7596)

  249. @249 Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 11/14/2023 @ 11:34 am
    Tell me that you didn’t read the article without telling me.

    whembly (5f7596)

  250. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-officials-rebel-president-israel-hamas-war-sign-dissent-letter

    Four hundred government officials from 40 departments and agencies within President Biden’s administration signed a letter opposing the president’s handling of the Israel-Hamas war and demanded a cease-fire.

    You know that I despises the Biden Administration.

    But, Biden, as POTUS, need to fire every single employees who signed this and have their security clearance (if any) revoked.

    Nobody voted for them.

    The gall of bureaucrats publicly protesting (even anonymously) policies set by an elected official.

    whembly (5f7596)

  251. This is just another story about the sorry state of our immigration policy and enforcement, where an illegal immigrant (and MAGA nutjob) broke into a Bay Area home and clubbed the American occupant in the head, almost killing him.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  252. This one hits closer to home…a stellar reporting from HotAir:
    https://hotair.com/tree-hugging-sister/2023/11/14/report-out-on-former-st-louis-circuit-attorney-kim-gardner-is-as-bad-as-youd-imagine-n592368
    These “George Soros” Democratic Attorney Generals has done far more damage to this country than most people understands.

    Also, the State AG for Missouri… watch out, that dude is going to have a hella political future if he wants it.

    whembly (5f7596)

  253. Tell me that you didn’t read the article without telling me.

    Cashill had his own preconceived notions, obviously. Quote:

    For political reasons, the prosecutors buried the truth. To save his career and possibly his life, Baker finessed his findings to include “neck compression” and declared the manner of death a homicide. So doing, he gave the state the wiggle room it needed to slip a noose around Chauvin’s neck.

    To learn what did kill George Floyd, I have consulted with two physicians. One, Dr. John Dale Dunn, is a veteran emergency physician and lawyer with expertise in cause of death matters.

    The ME also testified under oath that he was not pressured in coming to his conclusion.
    I saw the unedited 10-minute video of Floyd’s death (Cashill said he saw an edited version) a day or two after it happened, and I don’t like it when partisans tell me to not believe what I saw with my own eyes.
    The autopsy concluded this…

    Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression
    Manner of death: Homicide
    How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)
    Other significant conditions: Arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  254. @255 Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 11/14/2023 @ 12:30 pm
    Good for you Paul, now go back to my original post and noticed what I bolded that “caught my eyes”.

    whembly (5f7596)

  255. But, Biden, as POTUS, need to fire every single employees who signed this and have their security clearance (if any) revoked.

    Civil Service protections are such that firing anyone below the top political appointees is very hard. One of Trump’s proposed reforms (which came so late in 2020 as to be meaningless) is to move the “political appointee” floor down a bit as many of those high-level “civil servants” are actually quite political (and hew to the Left).

    The old Spoils System had many flaws, but one of the good things was that the administration could not avoid responsibility. Allowing more of a Spoils system on top of the Civil Service would allow more Presidential control and less low-level RFing of presidential directives.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  256. I still argue that the Civil Service protections are only there by the will of the Presidency.

    POTUS, imo, has the right to fire anyone for any reason and if the former employee wants to take him to court… I don’t see how SCOTUS can disagree because it’s basic separation of powers principles.

    whembly (5f7596)

  257. Trump asks his supporters to make citizens arrest on leita james. (DU)

    asset (130d8d)

  258. But to your point of Civil Service protections… I thought it was a congressional act to protect agency workers from discrimination and from whistleblower retaliation.

    If these workers refuses to act upon a policy directive, to me, that’s a fireable conduct.

    whembly (5f7596)

  259. Civil Service has been part of federal law since 1883, and amended in 1978. See 5 CFR Chapter 1 and its various subchapters for the Civil Service regulations.

    Government employees (aka bureaucrats) do not give up their freedom of speech when the join the federal civil service, with the main exception of partisan political activities.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  260. In fact, since the Vietnam War the State Department has a formal process for diplomats to protest an Administration’s policies.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  261. On an unrelated note: Nikki Haley saying she wants social media companies to hand over their algorithms to the government, and to have every social media user verify their real names.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  262. @261

    Government employees (aka bureaucrats) do not give up their freedom of speech when the join the federal civil service, with the main exception of partisan political activities.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/14/2023 @ 2:05 pm

    Hmmmm, but they don’t get to undermine the Office of Presidency whilst working within the Executive Branch. IMO, that’s a fireable offense.

    If the policies are that objectionable, you either do it in your own private time, or resign in protest.

    whembly (5f7596)

  263. @263

    On an unrelated note: Nikki Haley saying she wants social media companies to hand over their algorithms to the government, and to have every social media user verify their real names.

    Sam G (8d2ed1) — 11/14/2023 @ 2:30 pm

    I saw that, and initially I thought the story was unfairly misinterpreting her. But, nope… she said that.

    Is she trying to tank her electoral chances now?

    whembly (5f7596)

  264. Unsurprising:

    A Michigan judge on Tuesday dismissed a lawsuit that tried to use the 14th Amendment’s “insurrectionist ban” to remove Donald Trump from the state’s 2024 ballot.

    The judge separately ruled that Michigan’s secretary of state doesn’t have the power under state law to determine Trump’s eligibility for office based on the constitutional amendment.
    ……..
    Michigan Court of Claims Judge James Redford said in his decision Tuesday that questions about Trump’s role in the January 6, 2021, insurrection – and whether it constitutionally bars him from returning to the White House – should be addressed by elected representatives in Congress. He ruled that the matter was a “political question” that shouldn’t be decided by the judicial branch.

    A court disqualifying Trump would’ve taken that decision away from “a body made up of elected representatives of the people of every state in the nation, and gives it to but one single judicial officer, a person who no matter how well intentioned, evenhanded, fair and learned, cannot in any manner or form possibly embody the represented qualities of every citizen of the nation,” Redford wrote.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  265. @266 Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/14/2023 @ 2:44 pm
    The Judge got it right.

    Trump needs to be defeated on merits, not via legal shenanigans.

    whembly (5f7596)

  266. Hmmmm, but they don’t get to undermine the Office of Presidency whilst working within the Executive Branch. IMO, that’s a fireable offense.

    If the policies are that objectionable, you either do it in your own private time, or resign in protest.

    whembly (5f7596) — 11/14/2023 @ 2:43 pm

    I agree if someone takes active steps to thwart a presidential policy they should be terminated or they should resign. But since the 500+ signers are anonymous (as were the organizers) it would be futile effort (and a waste of time and money) to track down the signers.

    ……..
    The signatories of the letter submitted on Tuesday and the one circulating among USAID employees are anonymous, the USAID letter explains, out of “concern for our personal safety and risk of potentially losing our jobs.” The signatories of the State Department dissent cables must disclose their names, but those cables have not been released publicly.
    …………
    Some U.S. officials said privately that while senior officials welcome disagreement, government workers must understand and accept that they will not always agree with U.S. policy. The dissent over Gaza reflects a generational divide and comes mostly from employees in their 20s and 30s, the officials said — though many older people have also signed dissenting documents, according to people who have collected signatures.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  267. @268 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/14/2023 @ 2:57 pm
    Then, they should be put on notice that if they were ever found out and, they will be terminated.

    Frankly, I have a hard time believing the government couldn’t find them.

    There are proper channels in voicing disagreements. Doing so, publicly under the auspice of your office isn’t that.

    whembly (5f7596)

  268. Democrats bail out another Republican Speaker:

    House lawmakers on Tuesday passed Speaker Mike Johnson’s stopgap funding bill to avert a government shutdown, likely punting the GOP’s spending fight until after the holidays.

    The vote was 336-95, with a majority of Republicans and Democrats voting to support it. Ninety-three Republican members voted against the bill, more than voted against the CR in September, and two Democrats opposed it, Reps. Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts and Mike Quigley of Illinois.

    Because of the way leadership structured the vote, it needed support from two-thirds of the full House to pass.
    ……….
    Facing a host of conservative defections, Johnson needed Democratic support to get his bill through the chamber. Moments before the vote, House Democratic leaders endorsed Johnson’s CR plan, guaranteeing its passage.

    “House Democrats have repeatedly articulated that any continuing resolution must be set at the fiscal year 2023 spending level, be devoid of harmful cuts and free of extreme right-wing policy riders,” the Democratic leaders said in a joint statement. “The continuing resolution before the House today meets that criteria and we will support it.”
    ……….
    Johnson’s clean CR needed to rely on Democratic votes, just as the last funding bill that cost former Speaker Kevin McCarthy his job in early October. The House conservatives who helped oust McCarthy from power despise CRs in general, and on Tuesday morning, the far-right House Freedom Caucus said that its members had taken a position opposing the laddered CR, even though it was originally proposed by Freedom Caucus members.

    It “contains no spending reductions, no border security, and not a single meaningful win for the American People,” the Freedom Caucus said in its statement.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  269. Frankly, I have a hard time believing the government couldn’t find them.

    If the government can’t find out who leaked the Dobbs opinion, then what makes one think they can find anyone?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  270. If the government can’t find out who leaked the Dobbs opinion, then what makes one think they can find anyone?

    Do you have an easy time believing the government could not find who leaked the Dobbs opinion?

    BuDuh (ce9621)

  271. 268 The VP and her spouse asked the people who they met with about that anti-Hamas war policy if any of them had received pressure from family or friends to resign over that policy and a majority raised their hands.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  272. whembly (5f7596) — 11/14/2023 @ 2:44 pm

    Is she trying to tank her electoral chances now?

    No, trying not to disagree with a seemingly reasonable proposal.

    But it can be dangerous, in some circumstances, for people to use their real name. Although they probably give their real names to the companies anyway.

    Algorithms is the big thig now.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  273. whembly (5f7596) — 11/14/2023 @ 11:41 am

    A 2nd Trump administration would pale in comparison to some future politician who convinces that he/she has what it’d take to drastically cull the illegal immigration issue.

    You could get people supported by Bannon and Miller who would, but they are not likely to get elected.

    Best things to do, is to dissuade economic migrates from illegally entering the country somehow.

    Shouldn’t you first want to make sure that your economic theory is correct?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/13/opinion/columnists/trump-immigrants.html

    Does Donald Trump ever visit Queens, the land of his youth? If he did, he would presumably be horrified. According to the census, Queens is the most racially and ethnically diverse county in the continental United States; it’s hard to think of a nationality or culture that isn’t represented there. Immigrants are almost half the borough’s population and more than half its work force.

    And I think that’s great….And no, Queens isn’t an urban hellscape. It may not be leafy and green, but it has less serious crime per capita than the rest of New York City, and New York, although nobody will believe it, is one of the safest places in America. It’s also relatively healthy, with life expectancy around three years higher than that of the United States as a whole.

    It doesn’t havethatmany eople who attended failing public schools

    .
    But Trump has declared that migrants are “poisoning the blood of our country” — a phrase that, to steal from the late, great Molly Ivins, might sound better in the original German.

    Somebody is feeding Trump these ambiguous lines. He may not even know what was said in German or what it meant.

    So far, Krugman has discussed the sociological issue/He now reports Trump’s one liners.

    On Saturday The Times reported that Trump, if returned to office, intends to pursue drastic anti-immigration policies — scouring the country for undocumented immigrants and building huge camps to, um, concentrate them before deporting them by the millions. Suspected members of drug cartels and gangs would be expelled without due process. Suspected by whom, on what grounds? Good question.

    If you believe that none of this should concern you, because you’re a U.S. citizen, you should know that on Veterans Day, Trump gave a speech promising to “root out” the “radical-left thugs” that, he says — echoing the likes of Hitler and Mussolini — infest America “like vermin.” Who counts as “radical left”? Well, today’s Republicans — not just Trump — have a very expansive definition. After all, they routinely accuse Joe Biden of being a Marxist.

    This is of course, designed to elicit opposition to seemingly reasonable proposals.

    Now Krugman goes into the economics -one of the few places you see an argument:

    Given all this anti-democratic rhetoric, it seems almost crass to point out that a Trumpian war on immigrants would also be an economic disaster. But it would.

    That’s apparently not what the Trumpists believe. That Times article quotes Stephen Miller, who headed anti-immigrant operations when Trump was in the White House, as claiming that mass deportations will be “celebrated by American workers, who will now be offered higher wages with better benefits to fill these jobs.”

    Very few economists would agree.

    To the extent that there’s anything beyond raw xenophobia behind Trumpist hostility to foreign workers, it seems to be the view that America has a limited number of jobs to offer and that immigrants take those jobs away from the native-born. In reality, however, except during recessions, the number of jobs, and hence the economy’s growth, is limited by the available work force rather than the other way around.

    And the contribution of immigrants to America’s long-term growth is startlingly large. Since 2007, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the U.S. labor force has increased by 14.6 million. Of these additional workers, 7.8 million — more than half — were foreign born.

    Oh, and if these immigrants are taking away American jobs, how can the unemployment rate be near a 50-year low? In fact, we desperately need these workers, among other things because they will help us cope with the needs of an aging population.

    Now, you might worry that less-educated immigrants will push down wages at the bottom, increasing income inequality. But the bottom line from decades of research on this topic is that this doesn’t seem to happen. Even less-educated immigrants bring different skills and make different job choices from their native-born counterparts, so they end up being complements to, not substitutes for, local workers.

    The counterargument by the restrictionists is that amounts to replacing the population. So that argument that the Social Security program, being something of a Ponzi scheme, needs an increasing population to pay promised benefits, or that more caregivers are needed, is not often raised.

    Continuing with Krugman:

    And let’s not forget that Trump officials tried to choke off the supply of skilled foreign workers to the U.S. technology sector, apparently believing that this would reserve good jobs for Americans — when in reality it would simply undermine our technological edge.

    None of this is to deny that sudden surges of migrants can place a burden on local communities and that we need policies to mitigate these impacts. But that’s very different from a sweeping rejection of immigration, which is as American as apple pie, not to mention pizza and bagels — foods brought by earlier immigrants who were, in their day, the targets of just as much prejudice and hatred as the immigrants of today.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  274. The Hamas story from last week in the NYT:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-gaza-war.html

    Thousands have been killed in Gaza, with entire families wiped out. Israeli airstrikes have reduced Palestinian neighborhoods to expanses of rubble, while doctors treat screaming children in darkened hospitals with no anesthesia. Across the Middle East, fear has spread over the possible outbreak of a broader regional war.

    But in the bloody arithmetic of Hamas’s leaders, the carnage is not the regrettable outcome of a big miscalculation. Quite the opposite, they say: It is the necessary cost of a great accomplishment — the shattering of the status quo and the opening of a new, more volatile chapter in their fight against Israel.

    It was necessary to “change the entire equation and not just have a clash,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times in Doha, Qatar. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

    Since the shocking Hamas attack on Oct. 7, in which Israel says about 1,400 people were killed — most of them civilians — and more than 240 others dragged back to Gaza as captives, the group’s leaders have praised the operation, with some hoping it will set off a sustained conflict that ends any pretense of coexistence among Israel, Gaza and the countries around them.

    “I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, told The Times….

    Hamas wanted the attack by Israel.

    This could only make sense for Iran. And it doesn’t make too much sense for Iran, unless they are relying on spies who tell them what the United States will not do.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  275. SFL

    It’s actually in most cases, do it illegally, or not do it at all.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/13/2023 @ 1:44 pm

    These days, that’s an AND, not an OR. A friend of mine, who works for the US government, has been trying for the better part of a decade to get her Canadian husband admitted as a legal resident. It takes years now to get a hearing and their last hearing was cancelled due to Covid.

    Why dies he need a hearing? I would think all he would need is a visa.. Is there some other complication?

    US immigration law isn’t rational, and most proposals are to make it more irrational.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  276. Will the capture of al Shifa hospital by the Israelis end the Gaza war?

    Probably not immediately. The capture of Richmond did not end the US Civil War, and the capture of Berlin did not end war in Europe in 1945

    Besides Hamas has one thing it can do in desperation: Release some of the hostages in exchange both for some prisoners and maybe a 3 day or 5-day ceasefire.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  277. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/14/2023 @ 9:29 am

    Pot Calling Kettle Black:

    Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) filed a formal ethics complaint against former Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) after Rep. Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.) accused the ex-House leader of elbowing him in a hallway Tuesday.

    “This incident deserves immediate and swift investigation by the Ethics committee,” Gaetz wrote in a letter to House Ethics Committee Chair Michael Guest (R-Miss.) and ranking member Susan Wild (D-Pa.).

    “Congress has seen a substantial increase in breaches of decorum unlike anything we have ever seen since the pre-Civil War era.”
    ………
    “I myself have been a victim of outrageous conduct on the House floor as well,” Gaetz wrote, an apparent reference to when House Armed Services Committee Chair Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) lunged at Gaetz during the 15-ballot election of McCarthy as Speaker in January, “but nothing like an open and public assault on a Member, committed by another Member. The rot starts at the top.”
    ………
    Told about Gaetz making an ethics complaint against him, McCarthy said: “Oh, good.”

    “I think Ethics is a good place for Gaetz to be,” McCarthy said.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  278. al shifa hospital no gunfire yet in room where premature babies are lying ;but gunfire can be heard from the room.

    asset (5f4b57)

  279. Hamas basically admitted to killing one hostage They released a video of a female soldier talking, which then cut to her dead body.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  280. Best things to do, is to dissuade economic migrates from illegally entering the country somehow.

    Ideally, the best method is to attack the incentives (or promote disincentives) in such a way that the illegals self-deports.

    I think you totally miss the point. It is the economic migrant — the person seeking to be a productive member of society through hard work — that we should encourage. As it stands we offer them NO WAY to immigrate, putting nearly every other type of migrant ahead of them in the line, then imposing a (small) overall limit.

    My rule would be this:

    1. Two-thirds of all immigrants must be from Mexico and Central America.
    2. Only able-bodied people between 18 and 35 and their children may apply.
    3. Each family mush have a adult member with a marketable skill.
    4. All adults must pay an entrance fee and register for the draft.
    5. Everyone must learn English within 5 years.

    As for those here unlawfully? Are they self-supporting and law-abiding? If not, deport them. If they are, well maybe.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  281. Nikki Haley saying she wants social media companies to hand over their algorithms to the government, and to have every social media user verify their real names.

    There would be a lot fewer trolls.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  282. Nikki Haley saying she wants social media companies to hand over their algorithms to the government

    I think she’s talking about enforcing a transparency of censorship decisions. Could not hurt. Many people have been barred from this or that for no discernible reason.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  283. IF you work for the federal government, and you don’t show up for work, how long can you still collect a paycheck? Answer: several months. If so, how easy do you think it is to fire someone for a less obvious cause?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  284. WATCH: Biden Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen applauds as China’s Xi Jinping arrives in San Francisco

    Suckling murderous dictators teets is in en vogue again.

    BuDuh (ce9621)

  285. Minus “in.”

    BuDuh (ce9621)

  286. @287 as deep throat said in watergate follow the money. Only left democrats can fund raise off small donations and AOC beat crowley while she was out spent 18 to 1. Bowman did the same to eliot engle in 2020. The base wants biden to retire what small donors is going to send him any money? Only corporations beholding to china will donate to corporate establishment stooges like biden and newsom.

    asset (5f4b57)

  287. Government official polite during international visit! Scandal!

    Nic (896fdf)

  288. Biden Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen applauds as China’s Xi Jinping arrives in San Francisco

    Golden Rule. He has more of our money than she does.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  289. China is the source of all the fentanyl precursors sent into Mexico, and Xi is well aware of that fact. Newsom decided to move all the fentanyl detritus in SF away so Xi would not see it. Great work. Lets not offend Xi by letting him know we see and know his work product

    steveg (09eac6)

  290. If I was Xi, I’d be telling my intelligence people to fund Newsom for President. Biden operating at current capacity is light years ahead of Newsom, and Newsom should be operating at peak capacity at this point in his life. Newsom has failed steadily up. Newsom was a dud at Mayor of SF and before that was a dud on the SF Parking and Traffic Commission. He is less accomplished than John Edwards was. A race between Trump and Newsom would be buffoon vs. buffoon with Trump arguably being the most accomplished of the two, may god have mercy on our souls

    steveg (09eac6)

  291. @steveg There are only very limited circumstances where you can get anything done diplomatically by being undiplomatic. It is generally considered far more effective to cover your iron fist in a velvet glove.

    (as an aside, there are Democrats who spend their time saying that every single Republican is The Worst, whichever one we are talking about at the moment, or who seems most influential, is The Worst. It’s very hard to take them seriously in their proclamation of who is The Worst because they don’t have a willingness to see any differences in people who have an R next to their names. It’s not any better when Republicans are the ones doing it.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  292. @294 lately establishment democrats like mccain (probably because he is no longer with us) and say romney is no longer hitler. They don’t believe in anything so political attacks which don’t offend their wealthy donor class.

    asset (5f4b57)

  293. @asset There are people who disagree with each other but who are still decent people.

    Nic (896fdf)

  294. @296 there are ;but much of the time their effect is not enough and the damaged caused by those who’s motto is no good deed goes unpunished is vast. All that is necessary for evil to prevail is people of good will to do nothing. The job of the un-decent is to stop the decent from doing anything.

    asset (5f4b57)

  295. It makes me wonder how many other journalists besides Hupert Seipel have been bought off by Putin. Vatnik Soup has a new entry on him. Some excerpts below.

    Between 2011 and 2012, Seipel accompanied Putin for months for the documentary, “Ich Putin – ein Porträt”.

    The documentary is a powerful propaganda piece that portrays Putin as the macho man the way he was often described as in the Western media. It shows Putin practicing judo, playing hockey, going on hunting trips and visiting troops in remote areas like Siberia.

    Seipel conducted the first televised interview with NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, which was broadcast on German, publicly-funded network ARD in Jan 2014.

    Snowden was also featured in Glenn Greenwald’s 2014 documentary Citizenfour.

    In Nov 2014, after the annexation of Crimea, Seipel did a controversial interview with Putin. He was criticized for violating journalistic standards by conducting an extremely one-sided and biased interview, and some even blamed him for supporting Russian state propaganda.

    Next year in his book “Putin: Innenansichten der Macht” he criticized the German term “Putin-Versteher” (Putin-understanders), which refers to people who support Putin’s imperialistic endeavours in regions and countries like Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine.

    In 2021, after Biden referred to Putin as “a killer”, Seipel said that the Democrats liked to blame Putin for Trump’s victory in 2016, suggesting that Russia didn’t interfere (despite overwhelming evidence that shows otherwise) with the 2016 US presidential election.

    During the same interview, when asked about the poisoning of opposition figure Navalny, he claimed that the evidence that the order came from the Kremlin “is not as clear as it is written,” and that other parties have Novichok, too. Navalny was indeed poisoned by the FSB.

    On 24 Feb 2022, @ARD_Presse invited him to talk about the war. They discussed how “Putin feels threatened by NATO’s eastward expansion,” a classic Kremlin narrative that was used to justify Russia’s genocidal war. Weeks before, he also said Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine.

    To conclude: We know have solid evidence of Kremlin’s influence operations on prominent Western journalists. Incidentally, Mr Seipel himself has said that the money he received “didn’t affect his independence as a journalist.”

    Why not disclose it then?

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  296. Putin had a lot of people fooled, but not McCain or Romney.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  297. @299, Unfortunately, Bush’s 2007 actions don’t excuse those on the Right currently cozying up to Putin or praising authoritarians. It might be instructive to read what Bush said about Putin post-Georgia, post-Crimea, and post-Ukraine proper. I doubt that he would continue to entertain Putin now that his empire designs are clear. Would Trump or Carlson rule out socializing with Putin? That’s not as clear to me.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  298. Jumping back to Haley and her wanting verification of identity for social media, I’ll quote Yashar Ali:

    “She says that requiring people to verify their identity for social media will get rid of Iranian, Chinese, and Russian bots?

    Well guess what, it won’t…quite the opposite.

    Foreign intelligence agencies have the power and the money to create thousands of identities using legitimate forms of
    identification.

    What this sort of change will get rid of is Iranian, Chinese, and Russian dissidents. The brave people who speak out and organize against authoritarian and totalitarian regimes.

    Like Iranians and Saudis who have used Twitter to demand change and expose what their regimes are doing to them behind closed doors.

    You know who else relies on being anonymous? Survivors of sexual violence and misconduct.

    Since #MeToo was reignited, many survivors have used social media to reach out to fellow survivors and reporters like me to share their stories.

    And this doesn’t even get to the fundamental right to privacy as long as someone isn’t breaking the law. “

    I’ll also ask a question here: would that apply only to American citizens using social media, or every user of a social media network that operates in the US? If that is the policy, and we can’t trust international identification (see above) – then does that mean that social media companies in the US would have to restrict their usage to only US citizens/residents? What negative effects will that have economically/socially/etc…?

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  299. Haley’s brave plan is only being attacked because she is a girl.

    BuDuh (ce9621)

  300. there are Democrats who spend their time saying that every single Republican is The Worst

    I’ve been hearing that about Nikki of late. Still, Trump is the gold standard of Hitlers.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  301. @298: “The Triumph of the Will, Part II”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  302. Putin had a lot of people fooled, but not McCain or Romney.

    And if you point at W, you have to mention Obama, who said that “the 80’s wanted their foreign policy back.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  303. does that mean that social media companies in the US would have to restrict their usage to only US citizens/residents?

    No, of course not. But a little flag on each handle would mean a lot.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  304. BTW, have you noticed that your Google (or Bing) searches are not as precise as you’d like? That may be “AI” helping you and deciding what you really mean.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  305. Depends on how the law is written, assuming that requires a law and cannot be implemented via executive order.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  306. Considering these are private companies, I really don’t care how they decide to weight results in their algorithms. If I don’t like it: there’s other search engines, use those.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  307. If everything Trump does is right, everything everybody else does is wrong. He is the MA and the GA, the Fifth and the Avenue, the Kari and the Lake. Cult!

    nk (0ecf05)

  308. Nic What was undiplomatic in those two posts?
    You don’t have to say a word. Leave the addicts out in plain sight so Xi can enjoy the fruits of his policy

    steveg (02aef9)

  309. Considering these are private companies,

    These are companies who sell access to the public and the public has a right to see that they are treated fairly. You could just as well say that car companies are private, so their internal memos about known defects should be off-limits to crash victims.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  310. New Hampshire 2024: Haley Surges to Second Place While Trump Maintains Lead

    A new Emerson College Polling/WHDH poll of New Hampshire voters finds former President Donald Trump with 49% of voters’ support in the 2024 Republican Primary, consistent with his support in August. Unlike the August survey, a candidate reaches double digits this month: Nikki Haley, whose support increased 14 percentage points, from 4% in August to 18% this November. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie follows with 9%, consistent with his August support, followed by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, at 7%, a one-point decrease since the summer poll. Vivek Ramaswamy holds 5%, followed by the South Carolina Senator who is no longer in the running, Tim Scott, at 2%, and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum at 2%. Nine percent of voters are undecided.
    ………
    Republican primary voters were also asked to name their second-choice candidate in the race; 22% selected Ron DeSantis, 18% chose Nikki Haley, and 15% selected Vivek Ramaswamy.
    ……….
    In a 2024 hypothetical presidential match-up between Biden and Trump, Biden leads 47% to 42%, while 12% are undecided. Trump voters were asked if they would still vote for Trump if he is convicted in a criminal trial: 80% still will support him, 5% will not, and 15% are unsure………
    ……….
    Between Biden and Nikki Haley, Haley leads 45% to 39%, with 17% undecided. Between Biden and DeSantis, Biden leads 46% to 38%, with 17% undecided.
    ……….

    Trump is still the overwhelming leader, polling +35 over Haley; +40 over Christie; and +42 over DeSantis.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  311. Considering these are private companies, I really don’t care how they decide to weight results in their algorithms. If I don’t like it: there’s other search engines, use those.

    You miss the point. My complaint is that “AI” isn’t useful and it just smears all searches towards what the average person who uses most of the words is searching for. It’s not that it bends the search towards some ideology, but that in bends the search towards the mundane.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  312. Trump is still the overwhelming leader

    However, every general election poll shows that Trump is the weakest of the 3.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  313. Access to search engines is not sold: you pay nothing to use them, and decisions on the algorithm’s function are not “defects” in the manner of mechanical issues in a vehicle. These are not comparable.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  314. However, every general election poll shows that Trump is the weakest of the 3.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/15/2023 @ 9:51 am

    Apparently that doesn’t make any difference to Republican voters. The current RCP national average has Trump at +43 over DeSantis and +49 over Haley.

    And DeSantis polls worse against Biden (Biden +4) than Trump or Haley. Trump and Biden are essentially tied: and Haley is +3, though there are few polls measuring Haley v. Biden. But these polls are sort of meaningless for an election that won’t occur for 356 days.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  315. But these polls are sort of meaningless for an election that won’t occur for 356 days.

    Oh, pick a side, man.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  316. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/15/2023 @ 9:49 am

    It’s not that it bends the search towards some ideology, but that in bends the search towards the mundane.

    Toward what is already generally known. So it becomes a closed loop, a bubble.

    Sammy Finkelman (036b5c)

  317. Hamas basically admitted to killing one hostage They released a video of a female soldier talking, which then cut to her dead body.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/14/2023 @ 4:33 pm

    although they claimed, for the record, and as a legal defense, that she was killed by an Israeli airstrike,

    Sammy Finkelman (036b5c)

  318. Toward what is already generally known. So it becomes a closed loop, a bubble.

    Towards things that don’t require searching for, mostly.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  319. It appears the the GM-UAW contract is going down to defeat. Older workers are unhappy that younger workers got more from ending the 2-tier wage system.

    Damn boomers.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  320. Roasted:

    ……….
    “When I get into office, the first thing we have to do, social media accounts, social media companies, they have to show America their algorithms. Let us see why they’re pushing what they’re pushing. The second thing is every person on social media should be verified by their name,” Haley said during an appearance on Fox News earlier in the day.

    “First of all, it’s a national security threat. When you do that, all of a sudden people have to stand by what they say. And it gets rid of the Russian bots, the Iranian bots and the Chinese bots. And then you’re going to get some civility when people know their name is next to what they say, and they know their pastor and their family members are going to see it,” she added.
    ……….
    “You know who were anonymous writers back in the day? Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison when they wrote the Federalist Papers. They were not ‘national security threats,’ nor are the many conservative Americans across the country who exercise their Constitutional right to voice their opinions without fear of being harassed or canceled by the school they go to or the company they work for,” DeSantis wrote.
    ………
    “Is Nikki Haley aware that the Federalist Papers were written by founding fathers using pseudonyms? Nikki Haley may be one of the most war-mongering and authoritarian candidates for president in some time. She’s completely unhinged. This is blatantly unconstitutional,” journalist Glenn Greenwald wrote.
    ……..
    Other (social media) users accused Haley of wanting “to eliminate free speech,” called her comments “horribly authoritarian,” and warned that her idea would lead to conservatives being fired from their jobs for expressing their opinions.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  321. Home for the holidays:

    ……….
    Hardliners sunk any chances of passage for two additional funding bills this week — marking a major setback for Speaker Mike Johnson less than 24 hours after working with Democrats to pass a bill that would thwart a shutdown deadline Saturday.
    ……….
    GOP leadership then canceled the rest of the votes for the week, with Republicans predicting that Johnson’s spending headache won’t get any easier once they return at the end of the month.

    Instead, members of the Freedom Caucus vowed to continue blocking House Republicans’ remaining five funding bills. They urged Johnson to come up with a plan that would cut spending for the fiscal year that began on Oct. 1, without any accounting tricks.
    ……….
    ……..(N)ineteen Republicans joined with Democrats to vote against allowing a funding bill covering the departments of Commerce and Justice, among other provisions, to come up for debate. Conservatives said they voted to block the rule for two reasons: Johnson’s leaning on Democrats to help pass a short-term funding bill on Tuesday and opposition to amendments on the spending legislation itself.
    ……….
    Republican leaders were also forced to pull their biggest domestic funding bill for the departments of Labor, Education and Health and Human Services from the floor, amid moderate opposition to steep spending cuts, among other issues. The Labor-HHS-Education and Commerce-Justice-Science bills join three other fiscal 2024 funding measures that are now stuck in limbo due to GOP infighting: Financial Services, Transportation-HUD and Agriculture-FDA.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  322. journalist Glenn Greenwald wrote.

    Everything in front of those words is always wrong. It’s like taking investment advice from Cathy Woods.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  323. Other ((anonymous) social media) users accused Haley of wanting “to eliminate free speech…

    FIFY

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  324. Nearly every problem with the Internet is due to anonymity. If people had to abide by the same rules they would have to honor face-to-face, disagreement would be more civil.

    Are there downsides to an absence of anonymity? Sure. Just as there are downsides to putting license plates on cars. But there are plenty of good reasons why to do it, too.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  325. @328

    Nearly every problem with the Internet is due to anonymity. If people had to abide by the same rules they would have to honor face-to-face, disagreement would be more civil.

    Are there downsides to an absence of anonymity? Sure. Just as there are downsides to putting license plates on cars. But there are plenty of good reasons why to do it, too.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/15/2023 @ 12:03 pm

    Anonymously telling Haley to STFU over this topic is free speech.

    Online anonymity is the least bad option and does more to promote free speech.

    whembly (5f7596)

  326. Hardliners sunk any chances of passage for two additional funding bills this week — marking a major setback for Speaker Mike Johnson less than 24 hours after working with Democrats to pass a bill that would thwart a shutdown deadline Saturday.

    It’s going to have to be continuing resolutions all the way, or bills passed with more Democrats voting for it than Republicans. The divisions in the House of Representatives doesn’t change.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  327. Nic

    I wrote that badly.
    “They” (The US diplomats and Presidential hopeful Newsom) don’t have to say anything.
    Leave the addicts out in plain sight so Xi can enjoy the fruits of his policy

    steveg (02aef9)

  328. Nearly every problem with the Internet is due to anonymity. If people had to abide by the same rules they would have to honor face-to-face, disagreement would be more civil.

    Probably enforcing this to the NYT and WaPo’s “sources say” tripe would not just fix the internet, but debate in general.

    BuDuh (ce9621)

  329. 273

    The VP and her spouse asked the people who they met with about that anti-Hamas war policy if any of them had received pressure from family or friends to resign over that policy and a majority raised their hands.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/14/2023 @ 3:43 pm

    Actually only the Second Gentleman was there – the vice president was not. This was on October 27, at a meeting with approximately 70 Arab or Muslim officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/us/politics/israel-biden-letter-gaza-cease-fire.html

    The letters of protest come after a contentious meeting on Oct. 23 at the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, where 70 Muslim and Arab political appointees gathered with senior Biden administration officials, including Jeffrey D. Zients, the chief of staff, and Doug Emhoff, the husband of Vice President Kamala Harris.

    The meeting started with a general question: How many of the appointees have faced pressure from family or friends to resign over the Biden administration’s support of Israel in the conflict? Dozens of hands shot up, according to one attendee and another who was briefed about the meeting.

    The fact that dozens were experiencing personal pressure, meant that they could tell Biden that their objections need not be taken seriously, as they weren’t made on the merits. Some may have been sincere (but crazy or biased) :

    Senior administration officials opened the floor to take questions and comments. Some attendees cried as they demanded that the administration call for a cease-fire, curb weapons shipments to the Israeli military and stop disregarding Palestinian civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  330. journalist Glenn Greenwald wrote.

    Everything in front of those words is always wrong. It’s like taking investment advice from Cathy Woods.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/15/2023 @ 11:59 am

    Except for the part regarding the anonymity of the Federalist Papers (as well as other writers such as Brutus, Cato, and Federal Farmer during the Constitution debates) and the unconstitutionality of Haley’s proposal. GG got that right.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  331. “Nearly every problem with the Internet is due to anonymity.”

    Bullies, trolls, and propagandists love not having any retribution…reputation or otherwise. We’ve set up this all-consuming aspect of our lives where people see no consequence for being horrible individuals. To contrast what goes on in most internet comment threads with the Founding Fathers and the Federalist Papers is amusingly inapt. It’s also amusing to think that free speech will be crushed if you have to put your actual name to what you opine on the internet. Letters to the editor used to require it. I’ll admit that it’s a big step given that people have grown accustomed to anonymity…but I favor some broader requirement. I think it will raise the quality of interaction.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  332. Haley’s “doxxing of America” proposal is a big government conservative unforced error.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  333. What’s next-government Internet licensing?

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  334. but I favor some broader requirement. I think it will raise the quality of interaction.

    Aren’t there already venues where one can go that don’t allow anonymity?

    I think this is going to take on the Fairness Doctrine stench where the non-profitable less liked settings use force to ruin others’ enjoyment.

    “Scroll on by” is just too tough, I guess.

    BuDuh (ce9621)

  335. @335

    “Nearly every problem with the Internet is due to anonymity.”

    Bullies, trolls, and propagandists love not having any retribution…reputation or otherwise. We’ve set up this all-consuming aspect of our lives where people see no consequence for being horrible individuals. To contrast what goes on in most internet comment threads with the Founding Fathers and the Federalist Papers is amusingly inapt. It’s also amusing to think that free speech will be crushed if you have to put your actual name to what you opine on the internet. Letters to the editor used to require it. I’ll admit that it’s a big step given that people have grown accustomed to anonymity…but I favor some broader requirement. I think it will raise the quality of interaction.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/15/2023 @ 12:39 pm

    I 100% disagree.

    People will self-censor.

    Not because its something that isn’t worth saying.

    But because rando people cannot possibly defend against a mob when the mob goes after their livelihood.

    I find this position by Haley super disturbing.

    whembly (5f7596)

  336. It’s also amusing to think that free speech will be crushed if you have to put your actual name to what you opine on the internet.

    There is nothing stopping anyone from using their real name on the Internet now.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  337. Wall Street Journal editorial:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-israel-hamas-9dc0135b

    The Battle of Al Shifa Hospital

    Hamas operates from beneath Al Shifa and won’t let patients out\\———————–

    On Dec. 8, 2016, U.S. Central Command released a statement: “Coalition Strikes Mosul Hospital.” The Islamic State, it explained, “was using the hospital as a base of operations and command and control headquarters.” Accordingly, the U.S.-led coalition conducted precision strikes in support of Iraqi troops who fought for the hospital.

    In this case, the United States is categorically against air strikes, and wants Israel also to avoid firefights. Israel is managing and has found places where only Hamas is. And one good thing, has demanded surrender, which should have been the main demand from the start, regardless of what the hopes are of getting it in the beginning..

    The story, and the scandal, wasn’t that the U.S. struck the terrorists where they hid, but that terrorists had used the hospital for cover in the first place. “In Mosul Battle, ISIS Used Hospital Base” was the Human Rights Watch headline; it explained that “armed forces or groups should not occupy medical facilities, undermining their protected status.”

    Today in Gaza, Hamas terrorists use the same war-crime tactics. Only now observers rush to apologize for it. See the front page of the Human Rights Watch website: “Unlawful Israeli Hospital Strikes Worsen Health Crisis.” For 4,500 words, the group acts as Hamas’s defense attorney, contesting Israel’s claims and dismissing evidence.

    Much of the Western press would also have readers conclude that Israel has organized its counteroffensive to converge in a pincer on Gaza’s Al Shifa Hospital for no reason other than that it houses sick patients.

    Well, no, although someone who was totally ignorant could read it that way and maybe they are succeeding in the Arab world..

    Hamas is in total denial, but it’s been known for years that the basement and Hamas built subbasements of al Shifa is a safe house and command center and there are several floors even.

    The real story, as Jonathan Schanzer of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies has documented, makes a great deal more sense. Hamas has used the hospital at least since 2006, when a PBS documentary showed terrorists roaming its halls and cordoning off wings. Even Human Rights Watch admitted in 2007 that Hamas had fired at Fatah, its Palestinian rival, from within the hospital.

    In the 2008-09 war, Hamas leaders hid in a bunker under the hospital. The New York Times wrote that Hamas operated openly in the halls. [They claimed to be security guards but detained and tortured people] In the 2014 war, the Washington Post reported that Shifa was a Hamas “de facto headquarters.” Amnesty International found that Hamas tortured prisoners on hospital grounds.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  338. More:

    On Tuesday the White House confirmed what Israel has long alleged. National Security Council Spokesman John Kirby cited U.S. intelligence that “Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad members operate a command and control node from Al Shifa in Gaza City.”

    Hamas is certainly fighting like that’s the case. At first it massed civilians around the premises and tried to prevent them from evacuating. For days, even as it has lost control of its government district, Hamas has fought outside the Shifa hospital.

    This isn’t because it cares for Gazan patients. Israel released a video of a terrorist shooting an RPG from outside a different hospital, Al Quds, and then darting inside for cover. Israel also took journalists to Al Rantisi Children’s Hospital, in whose basement they found a Hamas armory, plus a tunnel shaft nearby.

    The law of war in this case is clear: Under the Fourth Geneva Convention, Hamas’s use of Al Shifa for military purposes vitiates the protected status granted to hospitals. Israel is still required to give warning and use means proportionate to the anticipated military advantage, and it has.

    Contrary to media claims of an Israeli “siege” of Al Shifa hospital, Israel days ago opened a humanitarian corridor from the east side of the hospital to get civilians out. Many have since fled, as Israel first warned them to do a month ago. Israel is in contact with the hospital and offered to evacuate patients for treatment elsewhere. Hamas has resisted a transfer—it prefers patients, including babies, to remain in the war zone.

    Israel responded by working to transfer incubators and respirators to the hospital. On Sunday Israel risked troops’ lives to leave 300 liters of fuel outside the hospital entrance. The U.S. State Department confirms that Hamas had the hospital decline the fuel.

    They are not pro-anybody.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  339. Hamas can end the hospital crisis any time it wants. It could let Israel get patients to safety or stand down at the hospital. It refuses to do so, counting on the West to bail it out by forcing Israel to stand down instead. Many are eager to apply that pressure.

    As law, this is groundless. As morality, it is backward.

    As a strategy to win the war, it plays into Hamas’s hands.

    End of editorial.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  340. Rip Murdock (8e793c) — 11/15/2023 @ 12:43 pm

    And a “solution” in search of a problem.

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  341. 322. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/15/2023 @ 11:18 am

    Towards things that don’t require searching for, mostly.

    Well, they do. Suppose you want to know who was the Pope in 1189 or who won an election. But it’s like an almanac. You don’t find out anything truly new to you unless you do complicated searches.

    Do you know how hard it sometimes is on Google to retrieve an article you read in the newspaper – and not always because one word is remembered incorrectly?

    You practically need to have the article in front of you.

    There are some tricks you can do to narrow your search. Like looking for something within the last day or week or a custom search. Custom searches (date ranges) don’t work on older computers.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  342. And now we know who leaked the tapes (probably to ABC). Sounds like the WaPo had a different source:

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/judge-to-issue-protective-order-in-georgia-trump-case/D5SWV2HPXND4VDMZNWYK3UDE5M/

    Appalled (03f53c)

  343. #341 Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 11/15/2023 @ 12:54 pm

    That Wall Street Journal editorial is pure rubbish.

    Any loss of life in the Gaza strip should solely be laid at Hama’s feet.

    If you don’t want a superior force to come down hard on your for FO… don’t bitch about the FA phase of the equation.

    Reap what’s be sowed.

    whembly (5f7596)

  344. “Probably enforcing this to the NYT and WaPo’s “sources say” tripe would not just fix the internet, but debate in general.”

    Despite fevered accusations, the NYT has journalistic standards that includes an editing process and a retraction process. We can quibble that journalistic standards have taken a hit in this age of hot takes and trying to be first with news, but there is at least an expectation. When journalists use anonymous sources, it’s because the information is key to the story, they are vouching for the reliability of the source, and there is no other way to include the information. The journalist could be fired or suffer reputational damage if they pass on bad information. Someone here can pass on bad information daily and just keep doing it. Being called out doesn’t stop it. Again, a defect of anonymity.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  345. Someone here can pass on bad information daily and just keep doing it. Being called out doesn’t stop it. Again, a defect of anonymity.

    Not being anonymous won’t make any difference. People who aren’t anonymous today are spreading “bad” information and they are proud of it, for example, Donald Trump.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  346. #348 A_J_Liberty – I agree with what you are saying, and think the largest problem is what the “mainstream” media choose to cover — and what they choose not to cover. For example, early in his first campaign for presidency Barack Obama admitted that, if we elected him and followed his policies, it might result in a genocide in Iraq. We did, and it did.

    But that didn’t make the front page of the NYT, and no one from the newspaper is going to go out to Martha’s Vineyard to ask him about that genocide. (There is a detail in the story that haunts me. During Bill Clinton’s administration, Susan Rice said they should not call the Rwandan genocide by that name — in order to protect Clinton’s political viability.)

    I could add many other examples, but won’t for today.

    Jim Miller (501ed7)

  347. Sad!

    ……….
    (Truth Social) has lost $73 million in the less than two years since it launched, according to a new filing from Digital World Acquisition Corporation, or DWAC, the special purpose acquisition company aiming to take Trump Media and Technology Group, or TMTG, public.

    In its first fiscal year ending Dec. 2022, TMTG, Truth Social’s parent company, lost over $50 million on $1.4 million in sales. In the first half of 2023, it has lost an additional $23 million on $2.3 million in sales, according to the filing.
    ………
    The filing said that TMTG’s negative cash flow and persistent losses have raised “substantial doubt” about the company’s ability to continue operating in its current state. Merging with DWAC would provide sufficient capital to pay off TMTG’s heavy debt load, and keep operations going as cash flow falters.
    ……….
    Trump’s presence on Truth Social started as a boon for the company but has now become a crutch. The filing noted that if Trump stopped devoting “substantial time to Truth Social” or if he “fails to retain the public’s interest,” then TMTG would financially suffer even more.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  348. It got people talking about Nikki Haley.

    nk (bb1548)

  349. #350 – By “that didn’t make the front page”, I mean the fact that Obama knew his policies might result in a genocide.

    If he has any regrets over that failure, he has concealed them well.

    Jim Miller (501ed7)

  350. For example, early in his first campaign for presidency Barack Obama admitted that, if we elected him and followed his policies, it might result in a genocide in Iraq. We did, and it did.

    Which shows the futility of “international law.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  351. Jim Miller (501ed7) — 11/15/2023 @ 1:55 pm

    Being President means never having to say you’re “sorry.”

    Rip Murdock (8e793c)

  352. “Not being anonymous won’t make any difference.”

    Most people aren’t sociopaths.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  353. Online anonymity is the least bad option and does more to promote free speech.

    I’ve been online since the late 70s (CompuServe). Back then things were more civil, not because you had to use your real name (you didn’t, outside of a few business-oriented sections) but that you knew that CompuServe knew who you were. It protected against predators and kept trolls and other bad actors to a minimum, unlike the open season we have now. And speech was really quite free, just the same.

    Does anyone think that “Hey, little girl, want some candy?” is free speech? Because you have a damn sight more of that than you have Federalist Papers. Some basic identification of actors is needed. What we have now is not the best of all possible worlds.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  354. Most people aren’t sociopaths.

    But many trolls are.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  355. There is nothing stopping anyone from using their real name on the Internet now.

    There is nothing stopping people from being civil now, either.

    Please explain why I cannot drive my car anonymously.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  356. And a “solution” in search of a problem.

    TrumpBots, PutinBots and CommieBots hardest hit.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  357. I could add many other examples, but won’t for today.

    No one has ever gotten a newsroom high-five for nailing someone on the Left.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  358. You have a constitutional right to say things anonymously. You do not have a constitutional right to own or drive a car.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  359. “but that you knew that CompuServe knew who you were”

    I think this is what’s reasonable. Plus a light-hand of moderation. TheDispatch is a pretty civil place. When you pay for something, you value it more.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  360. “You have a constitutional right to say things anonymously”

    On someone else’s web site?!

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  361. If that someone else wants to require you to provide identification, that’s their decision: not the government’s.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  362. “You have a constitutional right to say things anonymously”

    On someone else’s web site?!

    If the owner lets you. It’s his right as much as yours.

    Nikki nikki po pikki banana fanna fo fikki fie fie mo mikki should sell her shtick some place where “All your internet belong to the government” is already the way they do things. She must have heard of a few in her time at the UN.

    nk (bb1548)

  363. Trump really wasted that “sanctimonious” on DeSantis. But that’s Trump. Projection is the way he does things. In this case, for his girl in the race.

    nk (bb1548)

  364. @362 tell that to Bernie Sanders. Ed schultz was not allowed to cover Bernie Sanders announcement he was running for president live from Vermont 2015. Ed said msdnc high ups were trying to make sanders running against clinton go away. On the night of the Michigan Primary rachel maddow tried to down play Bernies win in Michigan dem. primary by touting clinton’s primary win in mississippi which was meaningless. When AOC ran against crowley in 2018 New york times never did a story on her even though she was running in new york city. Nether did msdnc, cnn, abc, cbs, nbc or any other major media outlet. After she won the media tried to down play her win saying it was only because she is latinx and in hindsight everybody new she was going to defeat crowley! Fun fact: AOC got a lower % of her vote from latinx then she did from whites, blacks and asians. Crowley’s latinx votes was higher % then whites blacks or asians! Emilys list dedicated to helping liberal women running for office endorsed crowley instead of AOC! The left is a threat to the establishment corporate media. Most of you here are conservative and don’t understand the battle inside the democrat party between the left base and corporate establishment liberals and their media running dogs.

    asset (370058)

  365. Punting:

    The House Ethics Committee will not recommend any punishment for embattled New York Republican Rep. George Santos in a public report it plans to release later this week after a monthslong investigation, Chairman Michael Guest said Wednesday.

    Instead, the panel will release its evidence and details of its work for members to review and make their own conclusion about whether Santos should be removed from Congress, Guest, a Mississippi Republican, said.
    ………
    “The investigative subcommittee decided that they were going to compile the report, they would release the report to the, to the members, into the public, and based upon that, then our members can take whatever action that they felt necessary,” Guest said.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  366. Asset, I think you incorrectly identify what is and is not the base of the Democratic Party. It’s not progressives or leftists, as they are unreliable voters. It’s more moderate (or even conservative, if you really dug into their beliefs) folks that are reliable voters for the Democrats that make up the base. That base tends to skew older, too.

    As Yair Rosenberg said the other day:

    “As a general principle, Biden’s positions tend to accord with the most popular stance among the American public and his party, with a tilt towards older voters, who are the demographic that votes the most. That’s one of the secrets to his success as a politician.”

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  367. @371 the most reliable democrat voter is older black women who normally don’t rock the democratic boat out of self protection. Older pro-choice women as long as party is militant pro-abortion rights. The rest of the base is more volatile, younger minorities and whites. Generation Z votes more democratic and only half have turned 18, then millenials which is larger now then boomers. Moderates though larger in number then left base and tend to vote establishment are not enough and can get fed up as the squad proved. In 2016 80,000 democratic ballots mostly in detroit michigan voted down ballot democrat ;but left presidential blank. Joe Biden realized in 2020 that pushing sanders out of the primaries pushed his left voters out to unless he gave into their demands instead of giving them the back of his hand as hillary did in 2016 and did not vote for her. To keep the left party base tolerating Biden when we say jump he asks how high. Every election we get larger and moderates die off.

    asset (370058)

  368. The further left is unreliable and incapable of voting strategically. Threats to not vote just means the party will move towards reliable voters – e.g. more conservative views.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  369. You have a constitutional right to say things anonymously.

    This is the first-and-a-half amendment?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  370. You have a constitutional right to say things anonymously. You do not have a constitutional right to own or drive a car.

    I have a constitutional right to travel and a constitutional right to speech. The modalities are another matter. I do not, for example, have the right to speech using sound amplification in a residential neighborhood.

    Recently, the Court decided that *some* anonymous speech was protected, but up to then NO such speech was protected and even now not ALL such speech is protected.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  371. @373 They tried that in 2016 when clitonistas told the left we don’t give you squat and you have to vote for us to stop trump. The facts not threats to vote green party or not vote top of ticket (michigan 2016) forced the moderates to placate us in 2020. Your thesis only works if democrat party has enough moderates and doesn’t need the left ;but they don’t. The democrat party nows this after 2016. See what happened in az in 2022 when kari lake and the other maggots told mccain republicans get out we don’t want you!

    asset (370058)

  372. @375 In az supreme court here has ruled you have a right to drive a car.

    asset (370058)

  373. The people the Democrat Party is most likely to lose are the New Dealers, who think that supporting the working and middle class is the most important thing. Social Security, Medicare, unions, civil rights, a managed economy and the safety net. They are not all that keen on those who would overturn a working system, and they see identity politics as disruptive and divisive.

    They are, in short, “conservatives” in the real meaning of the word. Trump and his minions are chaos agents, and they are about as far from “conservative” as one can get.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  374. @376 didn’t learn your lesson on strategic voting from 2016, eh?

    Enjoy Trump at POTUS in 2025.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  375. Oh, unless of course you think things are better now after a Trump presidency than prior/if Clinton had been elected in 2016. If you favor a GOP SCOTUS, by all means – act like 2016nnever happened.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  376. It is unlikely that Congress would ever pass a law banning anonymity on the Internet, and even less likely that the current Supreme Court would uphold it.

    In (McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission (1995) the Supreme Court) majority wrote: “Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority….It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation…at the hand of an intolerant society.”

    In other words, SCOTUS found that anonymity ought to be protected when it comes to freedom of speech, whether it’s written expression, public speech or online speech. In the 2017 case of Signature Management Team, LLC v. John Doe, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit found anonymous speakers/commenters can maintain their anonymity even if they lose a legal case against them, due to the likelihood of harm resulting from such revelations.

    Source

    Haley has entered First Amendment fantasy camp.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  377. Asset, you may also look back on 2022: left didn’t show up, and the GOP took the House. How’s that working for us?

    SamG (4e6c22)

  378. @steveg@312/331 Maybe I’m cynical, but I don’t think that Xi would really care about American people dying of fentanyl. I think that plays into their idea of decadent weak westerners and maybe revenge from the opium wars.

    @AJ@335 It’s too easy to get fired for having an opinion on the internet if you use your real name. Also, I’d rather not be e-stalked by my students.

    Nic (896fdf)

  379. You have a constitutional right to say things anonymously.

    This is the first-and-a-half amendment?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/15/2023 @ 5:21 pm

    Just the First. There are whole books published anonymously or pseudonymously. Just ask Trump’s ghostwriters.

    nk (bb1548)

  380. I have a constitutional right to travel

    Since when? It’s not enumerated. It has been claimed to be one of the Privileges and Immunities of Article IV, but that’s for citizens, and it’s the red-headed stepchild of the Constitution compared to the First Amendment.

    nk (bb1548)

  381. @381: That anonymity was for a particular type of speaker, not all speakers. A law that said handbills had to be signed was overturned. Some speakers cannot speak ON the record as they prefer. Tobacco companies, for example. And take another look at campaign finance laws for how anonymous speech can be curtailed.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  382. Just the First. There are whole books published anonymously or pseudonymously.

    And again, that does not mean that anonymous speech is a globally protected right. It means that it is, at times, tolerated. If those books had contained libel, the author’s ass would be in court forthwith.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  383. And again, that does not mean that anonymous speech is a globally protected right.

    Way to confuse the issue. Nobody is saying that. We’re saying that it is as fully protected as “onymous speech”. In America.

    nk (bb1548)

  384. Could Google say “We will not place ads on any social network that does not require users to identify themselves to the service”?

    Could the government condition its safe harbor laws for publishers on the same requirement?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  385. I’ve come to the conclusion that Elon Musk should stick to talking about cars and rockets. There’s a disease that brilliant people succumb to — that they know all the answers to everything — and Musk has it in spades.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  386. @379@380 @382 Cut flesh to cut meat. I do vote strategic ;but different strategy. Clinton victory would hurt the left as did biden. AOC and squad would never have won if clinton was elected by angry democrats. Dobbs keep them angry for 2024 and beyond like right uses gun control. I voted green in 2020 hoping trump would win so AOC would walk into presidency 2024. The DNC corporate establishment democrats must continue to be discredited so the left can take over the democrat party like trump took over republican party.

    asset (370058)

  387. Gotcha: not a Democrat. Accelerationist.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  388. I am a left democrat populist. Like trumpsters who are right populists took over the republican party from reagan conservatives. In 1980 reagan after winning the nomination and before bill casey and john connoly committed treason with Iran to hold our hostages so carter didn’t win ( tradition in gop see 1968 ) Reagan went to give his first speech in philadelphia mississippi where the 3 civil rights workers murdered in 1964 by the KKK welcoming ignorant southern white trash racist democrat populists into the republican party. As the song says you knew I was a snake before you let me in. Democrat party didn’t exactly let bernie sanders and aoc in we kind of shoved are way thru a crack in the door. When bobby kennady and especially Gene McCarthy opposed the vietnam war I became a democrat.

    asset (370058)

  389. @392 If you are new to democrat party infighting the corporate establishment DNC democrats like the clintonistas hate Bernie Sanders, AOC and left base as much as they hate trump ;but not as much as we hate them. They fear AOC more then they fear trump and for good reason!

    asset (370058)

  390. @392 not an Accelerationist I believe in non-exploitive capitalism and whats worse I practice it in my business that I own as an owner operator. I am a capitalist wage slave master ;but I don’t have any capitalist wage slaves. Also I am NON-ignorant southern white trash populist so I fit right into the democratic non corporatist part of the party. Being “determined” to be an existentialist. About 55 years ago when my political science teacher morris starsky got fired from my alma matter Arizona State football and party school for leading anti-vietnam war march I changed my major to existentialist metaphysics. I live my philosophy which few other philosophers have been able to do!

    asset (370058)

  391. I like this Eric Allie cartoon.

    Jim Miller (afa93c)

  392. Yes Asset, you’re left MAGA. You don’t care if you actually get progress made, or consider harm reduction in your voting: you want pain to spread, thinking that that will move people towards supporting your preferred policy outcomes. The thing you and those like you ignore is that there are more parties with agency of their own, and inducing such chaos means a group completely antithetical to your desires takes control and ends the game in whole.

    The thing y’all “step past progressives” (note that’s the lower-case p progressive, not Progressive) need to remember – besides how much of a threat a second Trump presidency would be (and that’s all available in his statements and Project 2025):

    Vote for Biden and he wins: you’re in the coalition, he owes you.
    Vote for Biden and he loses: you can say you tried to stop fascism.
    Don’t vote Biden and he wins: you’re irrelevant.
    Don’t vote Biden and he loses: you’re to blame.

    That last line is one I’m sure you take umbrage against, and yet for 50k votes in a handful of states in 2016 or under 7k votes in 5 states in 2022 – things would be very different.

    I’ll leave this by saying “Good luck on your efforts to gain support for your cause”.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  393. On an unrelated note:

    Biden’s moral clarity on Xi (met with him, then called him a dictator) and Israel (states there will be no ceasefire as long as Hamas exists/is in control of Gaza) is pretty refreshing, ain’t it?

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  394. Really refreshing…

    🤣

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  395. Sam G (8d2ed1) — 11/16/2023 @ 8:06 am

    Biden’s moral clarity on Xi (met with him, then called him a dictator) and Israel (states there will be no ceasefire as long as Hamas exists/is in control of Gaza) is pretty refreshing, ain’t it?

    I’m afraid that could be because he’s too brain damaged to constantly lie. There are true things he said that he retracted after being asked to by underlings, on the grounds that it deviated from official U.S. policy. That Putin could not remain in power in Russia. That the United States would defend Taiwan.

    Sammy Finkelman (733b9a)

  396. (note that’s the lower-case p progressive, not Progressive)

    Aw, c’mon, admit you really mean he’s a Marxist, not merely a Socialist.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  397. Vote for Biden and he wins: you’re in the coalition, he owes you.
    Vote for Biden and he loses: you can say you tried to stop fascism.
    Don’t vote Biden and he wins: you’re irrelevant.
    Don’t vote Biden and he loses: you’re to blame.

    Vote for Biden and he wins: He thinks you liked him and want more of the same.
    Vote for Biden and he loses: The party thinks you want more of the same.
    Don’t vote Biden and he wins: Someone else thinks you liked them.
    Don’t vote Biden and he loses: The party might decide to try something different.
    Don’t vote: You are less relevant than dead people, as some of them do vote.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  398. @398 “Biden’s moral clarity on Xi (met with him, then called him a dictator) and Israel (states there will be no ceasefire as long as Hamas exists/is in control of Gaza) is pretty refreshing, ain’t it?”

    I would look for moral clarity regarding our own territorial integrity as opposed to Israel’s, Taiwan’s or Ukraine’s, though Democrats don’t see a problem there. And, the dissent and squishiness shown by anonymous DEI State Department employees in this administration is probably of more significance to anyone who isn’t a D. There are words, and there are actions. Biden already had imposed a ceasefire on Israel weeks ago, delaying their military response. And Iran probably took clues from his moral clarity in Afghanistan a year ago.

    lloyd (0ab1dd)

  399. And take another look at campaign finance laws for how anonymous speech can be curtailed.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/15/2023 @ 8:00 pm

    There is a significant governmental interest in preventing election corruption by requiring campaign contribution disclosures, which has been upheld numerous times by the Supreme Court over the past nearly 50 years:

    Regarding disclosure requirements, in Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976), and more recently, in McConnell v. FEC, 540 U.S. 93 (2003), and Citizens United v. FEC, 558 U.S. 310 (2010), the Court has generally affirmed the constitutionality of disclosure requirements. As the Buckley Court determined, disclosure requirements serve the governmental interests of providing voters with information, deterring corruption and avoiding its appearance, and facilitating enforcement of the law.

    Haley hasn’t identified a significant governmental interest to require identity verification of all social media users, beyond getting rid of “Russian bots, the Iranian bots, and the Chinese bots. And then, you’re going to get some civility, when people know their name is next to what they say.” Civility on the Internet is not a significant governmental interest, since we see uncivil behavior by named politicians in their social media postings. Addressing the “bot” question should be up to the social media companies themselves.

    In fact, Haley has already demonstrated the courage of her convictions by partially walking back her proposal.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  400. Sammy@400 —

    I’m afraid that could be because he’s too brain damaged to constantly lie

    A truly brain damaged Biden would be stuttering.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  401. Lloyd, there has been no ceasefire from Israel since 10/7 and the US couldn’t impose one even if we wanted to. There is however an important difference between advising a more controlled and deliberate course of action (e.g. contacting allies/neighbors to form a coalition against Hamas) rather than thoughtless retaliation without a plan for the future.

    On our own territorial integrity: the CBP under Biden has seized more fentanyl and arrested far more people than Trump did. If you want something different/lasting then we need to urge Congress to actually change the system as it exists.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  402. @401: I dunno if he goes for Marx. It’s possible he’s part of the illiberal left (of which Marxists/tankies are grouped).

    At the moment, my view of the present is that we are in a fight of liberalism vs illiberalism (from right and left). It is incumbent that those of us that make up the small-L liberal part of the political spectrum join together to prevent the illiberals from gaining power.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  403. @406 “On our own territorial integrity: the CBP under Biden has seized more fentanyl and arrested far more people than Trump did. If you want something different/lasting then we need to urge Congress to actually change the system as it exists.”

    There is much more fentanyl being trafficked under Biden, thus more to seize, and much more people violating our border laws. True. or false? This really isn’t a question so much as an invitation to be truthful about what is actually happening under Biden.

    There will be no lasting solution as long as one side doesn’t see a problem. An incessant influx of future voters and government dependents is exactly what D has wanted for well over a century. Why would they ever want to fix this? Offer a reason that makes sense. The last time there was a bipartisan proposal was ten years ago and, had it passed, we’d be exactly in the same state of chaos as today. Trump worked within the rules to keep some semblance of sanity at the border. There were no D mayors and governors begging for help. Biden isn’t interested. There’s your moral clarity.

    lloyd (0ab1dd)

  404. Autoworkers ratify deal with GM after tight vote

    Union workers at General Motors (GM) plants ratified a 54-month contract with the U.S. automaker on Thursday after a surprisingly tight vote, according to vote tracker compiled by the United Auto Workers (UAW) union.

    A little over half — 54.7 percent — of GM workers supported the agreement, while 45.3 percent voted against it.
    ………
    ………(W)orkers voted down the contract at several major GM facilities in Michigan, Indiana, Missouri and Tennessee in recent days.

    However, workers at one of the company’s largest facilities, an assembly plant in Arlington, Texas, ultimately voted in favor of the deal, helping to get the ratification effort across the finish line.

    The agreement appeared to be heading toward success at Ford and Stellantis facilities as of Thursday afternoon, with 66.7 percent of Ford workers and 66.5 percent of Stellantis voting in favor of the contract, according to the UAW’s tallies.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  405. Appalled (03f53c) — 11/16/2023 @ 10:25 am

    A truly brain damaged Biden would be stuttering.

    It’s not really brain damage. It’s a little bitof mental deterioration. He makes mistakes in speaking,

    Sammy Finkelman (f1a67c)

  406. Haley hasn’t identified a significant governmental interest to require identity verification of all social media users, beyond getting rid of “Russian bots, the Iranian bots, and the Chinese bots

    I bet if you looked for one, you could find it.

    Civility on the Internet is not a significant governmental interest

    The incivility on the Internet is what is driving the coarseness and division in the society at large. There is a strong correlation, but in topics and in time.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  407. *both in topics and in time.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  408. Both Biden and Trump are mentally impaired. Biden’s is the general infirmity of age. Trump’s is seen in wild mood swings, sudden anger and a general paranoia.

    I do not think either of them should be running for president. There is something truly broken in America that it is not only so, but that they are leading.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  409. A little over half — 54.7 percent — of GM workers supported the agreement, while 45.3 percent voted against it.

    Stolen! Audit the vote!

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  410. Haley hasn’t identified a significant governmental interest to require identity verification of all social media users, beyond getting rid of “Russian bots, the Iranian bots, and the Chinese bots

    I bet if you looked for one, you could find it.

    It’s not anyone’s responsibility to provide a rationale for her policy proposal except herself; and she has failed to do so. And as I pointed out, she is retreating from her own proposal, which now doesn’t include “anonymous Americans“, so I guess the incivility will continue. Politicians who use social media under their own names are frequently uncivil, so apparently posting under their own names is not a deterrent.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  411. CDA Section 230 has, as one provision, a safe harbor protecting platform providers against libel or defamation suits. Aggrieved parties have only the option of suing individual speakers.

    However, when speakers are anonymous, this option is a fairly weak one as it only works when the platform itself demands identification of users.

    I see no reason that the government could not condition the safe harbor protection on mandatory platform-level user credentialing. Don’t like it? Give up the safe harbor protection and assume full liability for your users.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  412. Hyundai to sell cars on Amazon.

    Hyundai Motor customers who want to skip the dealership will have a new option next year: shopping on Amazon.com.

    The Korean automaker announced the move Thursday with Amazon at the Los Angeles Auto Show. Starting in 2024, U.S. auto dealers will be able to sell vehicles on the tech company’s platform, making Hyundai the first automotive brand to offer such an option for customers.

    “Despite the industry’s focus on improving this experience, customers continue to express frustration with the process,” José Muñoz, chief operating officer of Hyundai Motor HYMLY 0.00%increase; green up pointing triangle

    said at the LA Auto Show. “They see how easy it is to buy all the products on Amazon, and they want that convenience when buying a car.”

    The companies said the arrangement will allow customers to purchase a new car online and then either pick it up or have it delivered by their local dealership at a time that works best for them.

    Prospective buyers will be able to search on Amazon’s website for available vehicles in their area by model, color and features, and then complete the process using their chosen payment and financing options.

    As part of the companies’ partnership, Hyundai will include Amazon’s Alexa technology in the brand’s cars beginning in 2025, the companies said.

    No word on haggling.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  413. It also may not matter much what the US does with Internet IDs. Europe doesn’t have a 1st Amendment and will blaze that trail soon enough. They already have content censorship rules.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  414. @416

    CDA Section 230 has, as one provision, a safe harbor protecting platform providers against libel or defamation suits. Aggrieved parties have only the option of suing individual speakers.

    However, when speakers are anonymous, this option is a fairly weak one as it only works when the platform itself demands identification of users.

    I see no reason that the government could not condition the safe harbor protection on mandatory platform-level user credentialing. Don’t like it? Give up the safe harbor protection and assume full liability for your users.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 12:38 pm

    No.

    This will be disastrous.

    I mean, we’ve just seen how incestuous big tech companies works with the government with disfavored speech.

    whembly (5f7596)

  415. So, you argue bad policy? Fine. But it’s apparently constitutional.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  416. This will be disastrous.

    But really …

    Facebook, Google, X (soon) and Patterico all require some means of identification, if just a valid email. Why has the world not ended?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  417. @421

    This will be disastrous.

    But really …

    Facebook, Google, X (soon) and Patterico all require some means of identification, if just a valid email. Why has the world not ended?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 12:56 pm

    Because emails are still considered anonymous.

    The world is a lot different than we were young.

    You and I remember the days whereby we can pick up the Whitepages to find the phone number/address using just a full name. (unless you paided extra to hide that)

    But, back then, neither the mob nor the government has the sort of reach today that can be abused.

    whembly (5f7596)

  418. @420

    So, you argue bad policy? Fine. But it’s apparently constitutional.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 12:54 pm

    There’s literally a court case that’s ongoing whereby the judge as signaled (Missouri v. Biden) that the petitioners are likely to win.

    whembly (5f7596)

  419. Facebook, Google, X (soon) and Patterico all require some means of identification, if just a valid email. Why has the world not ended?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 12:56 pm

    The email I use for this site (and others) is a gmail account that uses my screen name, and has no connection with my real name.

    Has any other politician endorsed her proposal? I can’t find any.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  420. There’s literally a court case that’s ongoing whereby the judge as signaled (Missouri v. Biden) that the petitioners are likely to win.

    whembly (5f7596) — 11/16/2023 @ 1:09 pm

    And which has been blocked by the Supreme Court, and has nothing to do with anonymity on the Internet.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  421. So, you argue bad policy? Fine. But it’s apparently constitutional.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 12:54 pm

    There are whole slew of Supreme Court decision supporting the right to anonymous speech, so the constitutionality of Haley’s proposal isn’t a given.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  422. I look forward to Haley defending her proposal at the next debate. She’ll get hammered by the other candidates.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  423. @397 they tried to blame bernie in 2016 and got AOC and the squad elected. See tiktok above you have a problem with young people we don’t. Young people in large numbers support palestine. Some support hamas which is bad because they are evil as is the muslim religion. About the votes thats our system. I don’t like it ;but it is what it is. I am proudly left populist so I don’t hate trump ;but this vermin stuff even has me a little worried. Thanks to demographics its more likely my side will win. As the song in caberet says the future belongs to me!

    asset (78d118)

  424. Questions, questions:

    ……….
    Haley’s proposal crumpled under the most gentle scrutiny. In order to prove that you’re an American worthy of anonymous speech under her regime, wouldn’t you have to … identify yourself, thereby losing your anonymity? And that’s for starters. Would such a government-mandated scheme be legal? Probably not. Is the plague of anonymous misinformation somehow unique to the internet, requiring special rules for it? No. How practical would it be to identify every social media account by name? Not very. And if we said to hell with practicality and deployed the Haley plan, what would we lose?

    Haley’s education must have forgone not only law but history. ……..
    ……….
    Haley’s demand that social media companies verify usernames poses several questions. Would this be on the honor system? If so, then it would be useless as it would be easy to give a fake name or, as bars can already tell you, a fake ID. Would it be linked to driver’s licenses or passports? If so, you’d have to verify 1) that the driver’s license or passport is valid but also 2) that it was submitted by its owner. That would prove costly and time-consuming for both users and social media outlets and maybe even bankrupt them. If the site survived, would they turn their backs on international users, who might be too expensive to verify? Does Haley expect social media sites to use facial ID or other biometric data, like fingerprints, which pose monumental privacy problems?
    ……….
    If the Haley ID plan succeeded, what would we lose? Anonymity lends both courage and a measure of safety to speakers who might otherwise fear retaliation from those who are ruffled by raw speech. It protects you personally from getting fired by a boss or doxxed by an angry mob. It promotes the airing of controversial, unpopular speech and promotes debate that might otherwise be suppressed. And it encourages whistleblowing.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  425. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. Thats what they keep telling me.

    asset (78d118)

  426. @425

    And which has been blocked by the Supreme Court, and has nothing to do with anonymity on the Internet.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2023 @ 1:24 pm

    They only blocked the injunction. The case is ongoing and my point was that we have irrefutable facts that big tech worked with government censorship regime.

    whembly (5f7596)

  427. @430

    If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. Thats what they keep telling me.

    asset (78d118) — 11/16/2023 @ 1:44 pm

    You best better have an attorney at your side before you “talk” with government investigators.

    whembly (5f7596)

  428. They only blocked the injunction. The case is ongoing and my point was that we have irrefutable facts that big tech worked with government censorship regime.

    whembly (5f7596) — 11/16/2023 @ 1:57 pm

    We’ll see if the Supreme Court agrees.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  429. I see my comment @335 made it over to the Reason comment section with the following reply

    “These are the same people who pontificate about “muh principles,” mind you. When the rubber hits the road, they can’t wait to start tasting boot leather. And for the cherry on top, this d***hit is notably not posting using his real name.”

    Sounds like FWO. Glad he found a new home where he can elevate his discourse. He does make a strong point for anonymity as with the number of angry internet warriors, who would want to invite them into any aspect of your actual life? The nature of commenting on-line would need to change if attribution was required. Again, probably it should cost a fee and require some moderation. It certainly is easiest the way it is now…but it makes it heaven for trolls, bullies, and agitators. Yay.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  430. “Anonymity lends both courage and a measure of safety to speakers who might otherwise fear retaliation from those who are ruffled by raw speech. It protects you personally from getting fired by a boss or doxxed by an angry mob. It promotes the airing of controversial, unpopular speech and promotes debate that might otherwise be suppressed. And it encourages whistleblowing.”

    The fear is manifested only if the hosting site releases the name. I agree that verification might be costly initially, but perhaps technology would come to the rescue. There seems to be little consideration of the negatives of anonymity…as if social media is functioning perfectly…..with the electorate better informed than ever (/sarc). I think this is the view of people who especially like the raw content and who like trolling. They don’t want anyone to ruin their fun. How much of the current internet would I miss? I’m not sure it brings out the best in us.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  431. 432 why? since its a felony not to tell the truth to government officer I would just remain silent when ask question or say 5 th amendment.

    asset (b97181)

  432. Above everything else, Haley’s proposal is snake oil, like so many other proposals by politicians.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  433. “Anonymity lends both courage and a measure of safety to speakers who might otherwise fear retaliation from those who are ruffled by raw speech. It protects you personally from getting fired by a boss or doxxed by an angry mob. It promotes the airing of controversial, unpopular speech and promotes debate that might otherwise be suppressed. And it encourages whistleblowing.”

    The fear is manifested only if the hosting site releases the name.

    Uh, no.

    As Haley put it: “And then you’re going to get some civility when people know their name is next to what they say, and they know their pastor and their family members are going to see it,” so posts would be identifiable by real names, which could lead to posters suppressing their opinions and their political participation, knowing that their families, pastors, employers, and fellow employees would know what they think.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  434. The death toll from the Hamas massacre’s in southern Israel near Gaza has been revised. Originally, they were saying 150, 300, 300 and then it crept up to over 1,000, and then 1200, 1300 and even 1400. It stayed there and I felt it was too high. (the number 1441 was used in Israel and I think 240 kidnapped)

    It was difficult to total up a figure. The system was not prepared to handle so many bodies, and some bodies were misplaced, and there were parts of bodies and bodies were burnt, and a few bodies were discovered later, bodies of Hamas terrorists were mixed up among them.

    About Sunday Israel came up with a much better estimate.

    The totals are now (or were as of the beginning of this week)

    At least 846 civilians.

    At least 278 soldiers (Hamas went into some small military bases) This includes any soldiers killed in Israel. (Around 45 have since been killed in Gaza.) Soldiers are easier t identify because when they go into the army, their DNA is taken. And there is a separate system for handling the bodies. I don’t know if the total of soldiers includes some people killed in their homes.

    At least 44 police officers (not considered either civilians or soldiers)

    Total 846+278+44 = 1168. This probably does not include any murdered babies extracted alive from a pregnant woman, who would not have a name.

    These include 31 U.S. citizens, 39 French citizens and 34 Thai nationals. Another figure is 32. (Thai workers were common now in the Israeli farms near Gaza – most have since returned to Thailand) And 10 from Nepal who were at the music festival.

    Roughly 239 people kidnapped – 4 released, 1 confirmed dead, 1 woman if all went well, gave birth in Gaza.

    25 Thais were kidnapped and taken to Gaza.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  435. Hamas stopped giving a total of people killed in Gaza. They stopped updating it on Friday. They said about 11,000. This mixes up combatants and noncombatants and probably includes deaths from all causes. Their health ministry seems to function as a recorder of vital statistics, and in past have been mostly accurate as to numbers.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  436. There are whole slew of Supreme Court decision supporting the right to anonymous speech, so the constitutionality of Haley’s proposal isn’t a given.

    Tell me why the approach @416 is unconstitutional.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  437. Tell me why the approach @416 is unconstitutional.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 5:00 pm

    I have no idea if it is or not. The idea is pure speculation.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  438. Haley’s policy proposal, in contrast, is clearly unconstitutional, and I would also say un-American. It would make it easier, example, for employers to discriminate against anyone with unpopular viewpoints (currently not protected by anti-discrimination laws) up to and including dismissal. Haley’s solution is in search of a problem.

    There is no evidence that public shaming encourages civility; clearly someone like MTG is not embarrassed by what she posts on X or Meta.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  439. Moorpark professor arrested in death of Jewish protester Paul Kessler in Thousand Oaks

    A Moorpark College professor has been arrested on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter in the death of a Jewish protester who suffered head injuries during clashes between pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel demonstrators earlier this month in Thousand Oaks.

    Loay Abdelfattah Alnaji, 50, of Moorpark was arrested early Thursday at his Moorpark home in the death of Paul Kessler, the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department announced in a news release. Alnaji is being held in lieu of $1-million bail.

    Ventura County Dist. Atty. Erik Nasarenko announced late Thursday that his office planned to file two felony charges — involuntary manslaughter and battery causing serious bodily injury — against Alnaji in Kessler’s death. Officials planned to release more information on the case Friday morning.

    “Throughout their investigation, prosecutors have been in daily consultation with the Sheriff’s Office and are finalizing review of the evidence,” the district attorney’s office said in a statement.

    When reached at his home in the days after Kessler’s death, Alnaji declined to comment to The Times. An attorney for the professor has not been identified.

    Kessler, who was counterprotesting in support for Israel opposite a Free Palestine rally on Nov. 5, died hours after he fell backward during a confrontation with Alnaji and struck his head on the ground.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  440. The miracle of America is that this kind of thing is news.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  441. I have no idea if it is or not.

    Translation: I won’t admit that it is.

    The idea is pure speculation.

    The idea is a simple condition added to an existing statute, one that currently confers a privilege on a select few in order to allow Internet forums to function. Changing the rules a bit — for the same purpose — is not “speculation.”

    Speculation

    A word Rip uses for things he doesn’t like.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  442. @435

    “Anonymity lends both courage and a measure of safety to speakers who might otherwise fear retaliation from those who are ruffled by raw speech. It protects you personally from getting fired by a boss or doxxed by an angry mob. It promotes the airing of controversial, unpopular speech and promotes debate that might otherwise be suppressed. And it encourages whistleblowing.”

    The fear is manifested only if the hosting site releases the name. I agree that verification might be costly initially, but perhaps technology would come to the rescue. There seems to be little consideration of the negatives of anonymity…as if social media is functioning perfectly…..with the electorate better informed than ever (/sarc). I think this is the view of people who especially like the raw content and who like trolling. They don’t want anyone to ruin their fun. How much of the current internet would I miss? I’m not sure it brings out the best in us.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2023 @ 3:21 pm

    Technology is not the problem.

    Anonymity is not the problem.

    The problem lies with people…and it’s not the trolls either.

    If you cannot read a message online, regardless of what it says or advocates for, and it cause some emotional distress such that you MUST respond or rail against the ethernet… maybe the problem is…you.

    Log off.

    Interact with real people.

    If, you feel the need to engage with trolls, misinformation or other degenerates online… say your piece and move on.

    The danger with online activity, is the perpetuation of cancel culture. Especially, when the government is involved.

    whembly (c88dc4)

  443. whembly,

    I’m amazed that you cannot see how the Internet, and it’s total lack of corrective feedback, amplifies our discord and serves to divide.

    Yeats says it best.

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  444. I’m amazed that you cannot see how the Internet, and it’s total lack of corrective feedback, amplifies our discord and serves to divide.

    Like the time non-vaxers were viciously equated to drunk drivers?

    BuDuh (f26939)

  445. I get so tired of people here calling me a marxist/socialist. As I have said many times I believe in the social welfare state invented by conservative Bismark) to protect the rich and stop the incessant revolution that were breaking out at the time. I am a non-exploitive capitalist who owns his own business. Government owning the means of production only works as a last resort. At the time people thought their was nothing worse then capitalism because its excesses were not regulated. The manhatten project is the example most often used. A government official gen. groves shut down the quickest way to make an atomic bomb that is used to day because when he went to philadelphia they were not working on a saturday. If he hadn’t shut it down we would have had the atomic bomb in 1944! saving millions of lives.

    asset (3a78e9)

  446. “Technology is not the problem. Anonymity is not the problem. The problem lies with people…and it’s not the trolls either. If you cannot read a message online, regardless of what it says or advocates for, and it cause some emotional distress such that you MUST respond or rail against the ethernet… maybe the problem is…you.”

    This is hilariously obtuse. The technology plays to our worst impulses. It makes people compulsive, obsessive, and angry. Next you’ll be saying it’s not the fentanyl, it’s the people who just aren’t going for a nice long walk instead. We can hardly govern ourselves anymore…but don’t blame the technology! The GOP is nominating someone with 91 criminal counts and a host of social pathologies but we can’t question the arena that both incubated him and allows him to traffic in false memes.

    There are smart and thoughtful people on the internet that waste their incredible gifts responding to trolls, bullies, and sociopaths. It’s easy to say ignore them and go for a walk…except that’s not the psychological design of it all.

    AJ_Liberty (691d8b)

  447. Like the time non-vaxers were viciously equated to drunk drivers?

    I stand by that claim, but maybe. But what is vicious about pointing out someone’s assaults on others?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  448. I see that Biden now trails DeSantis as well as Trump and Haley. Haley up by 10.

    I’m guessing though that many Republicans want Trump as he will attempt things the others will not (e.g. mass deportations). Never mind that President Trump has a poor track record of actually getting things done. Hew talks loudly, but has a little stick.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  449. Methodology on that +10 Haley poll available at: https://law.marquette.edu/poll/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/MLSPSC17Methodology.pdf

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  450. Speculation

    A word Rip uses for things he doesn’t like.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 6:04 pm

    No, it’s a word I use when a statement is not grounded in fact or reality.

    Rip Murdock (c20088)

  451. On 10/7, I wrote about the kidnapping of Noa, the young woman who was at that music festival but was abducted by Hamas terrorists via motorcycle. I thought this tweet was about her but it was about another Noa, but just as heartbreaking:

    Yesterday, we were informed that the body of Yehudit Weiss, a resident of Be’eri, was found in Gaza, and today, we were told that the body of Noa Marciano, the kidnapped security analyst, was also found in Gaza.
    Both were kidnapped alive and murdered there.

    She was 19, and her body was found near Al Shifa Hospital. Noa Argamani, the pretty 25-year old, is still held hostage, far as we know.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  452. That is why Israel (and the West) should assume all the hostages are dead and act accordingly.

    Rip Murdock (c20088)

  453. @448

    whembly,

    I’m amazed that you cannot see how the Internet, and it’s total lack of corrective feedback, amplifies our discord and serves to divide.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 7:35 pm

    Oh, I absolutely do see that.

    But you and I disagree on the prescription to combat against that.

    There’s no panacea or silver bullet that’s going to stop that and forcing that everyone must be doxxed is the worst kind of solution.

    whembly (5f7596)

  454. @451

    “Technology is not the problem. Anonymity is not the problem. The problem lies with people…and it’s not the trolls either. If you cannot read a message online, regardless of what it says or advocates for, and it cause some emotional distress such that you MUST respond or rail against the ethernet… maybe the problem is…you.”

    This is hilariously obtuse. The technology plays to our worst impulses. It makes people compulsive, obsessive, and angry. Next you’ll be saying it’s not the fentanyl, it’s the people who just aren’t going for a nice long walk instead. We can hardly govern ourselves anymore…but don’t blame the technology! The GOP is nominating someone with 91 criminal counts and a host of social pathologies but we can’t question the arena that both incubated him and allows him to traffic in false memes.

    There are smart and thoughtful people on the internet that waste their incredible gifts responding to trolls, bullies, and sociopaths. It’s easy to say ignore them and go for a walk…except that’s not the psychological design of it all.

    AJ_Liberty (691d8b) — 11/17/2023 @ 5:19 am

    …except that’s not the psychological design of it all.

    Therein lies the problem.

    I might as well as post this:

    whembly (5f7596)

  455. Link should be this:
    https://xkcd.com/386/

    whembly (5f7596)

  456. @452

    Like the time non-vaxers were viciously equated to drunk drivers?

    I stand by that claim, but maybe. But what is vicious about pointing out someone’s assaults on others?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 6:27 am

    Because it’s not assault?

    whembly (5f7596)

  457. @456 O

    n 10/7, I wrote about the kidnapping of Noa, the young woman who was at that music festival but was abducted by Hamas terrorists via motorcycle. I thought this tweet was about her but it was about another Noa, but just as heartbreaking:

    Yesterday, we were informed that the body of Yehudit Weiss, a resident of Be’eri, was found in Gaza, and today, we were told that the body of Noa Marciano, the kidnapped security analyst, was also found in Gaza.
    Both were kidnapped alive and murdered there.

    She was 19, and her body was found near Al Shifa Hospital. Noa Argamani, the pretty 25-year old, is still held hostage, far as we know.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 11/17/2023 @ 7:57 am

    I’m not quite there yet… but, I probably could be convinced if Israel goes all Romans-to-Carthage on Gaza.

    whembly (5f7596)

  458. No, it’s a word I use when a statement is not grounded in fact or reality.

    My statement — adding a few words to an existing law while changing its constitutionality not one whit — is as “grounded in fact” as your above statement.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  459. https://xkcd.com/386/

    Absolute classic. I’ve shared that before. Along with this one.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  460. I probably could be convinced if Israel goes all Romans-to-Carthage on Gaza.

    From Israel to the Sea, Gaza shall be Free.

    There are Israelis that actually want that, driving all the Arabs out, but that would start a war that Israel cannot win, while isolating them from their allies.

    What is needed is a paradigm change, such as a protectorate in the hands of a reliable Arab government. What we will get is a pruning and the status quo ante. Or worse, the UN.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  461. Because it’s not assault?

    Allow me my hyperbole. But refusing to take reasonable health precautions because one is an ignorant buffoon, and exposing others to a disease that may kill them, is not a minor matter.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  462. I see no reason that the government could not condition the safe harbor protection on mandatory platform-level user credentialing. Don’t like it? Give up the safe harbor protection and assume full liability for your users.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/16/2023 @ 12:38 pm

    For once I agree with whembly. This is rank government coercion, a quid pro quo threat. It’s also a “solution” in search of a problem. There is no substantial governmental interest in banning anonymity on the Internet. It’s certainly not a conservative idea.

    Personally, I oppose having to give out my identity in order to exercise a constitutional right. For example, I don’t make campaign contributions that require me to provide my name and address. I only donate to 501 (c) (4) organizations that aren’t required to report their contributors. I also think the reporting threshold for House and Senate campaigns is way too low ($200). It should be $100,000 before reporting is required.

    Rip Murdock (c20088)

  463. I also think the reporting threshold for House and Senate campaigns is way too low ($200). It should be $100,000 before reporting is required.

    Oh, $10K is large enough, but I agree otherwise. You give $10K to a Congressman and they will give you special access. Maybe a bit higher for a Senator, but what would seem like a tiny amount to a CA Senator might seem much larger to someone from New Mexico.

    But really, there are a lot of other ways to corrupt a politician so maybe the whole campaign finance law structure is wrong. It may be in the government’s interest to prevent corrupt practices but I see no indication that these laws have had much effect on that.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  464. This is rank government coercion, a quid pro quo threat. It’s also a “solution” in search of a problem. There is no substantial governmental interest in banning anonymity on the Internet.

    What is the government interest in protecting corporations from liability for libel on sites the run and presumably police? They get that protection now, why can’t it be conditioned on something that reduces intolerance and hate?

    You may not think that reducing intolerance and hate is a government interest, but reasonable people might disagree.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  465. Rip Murdock (c20088) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:04 am

    me and address. I only donate to 501 (c) (4) organizations that aren’t required to report their contributors. I also think the reporting threshold for House and Senate campaigns is way too low ($200). It should be $100,000 before reporting is required.

    It’s not even allowed above an amount that in federal elections that’s now adjusted fir inflation, close to $3,000 per candidate per election.(primary and general count separate, and the donation limit it can be doubled through a spouse where reimbursement is not considered to using a straw donor)

    I don’t know about a $100,000 disclosure limit, but large donations should be allowed, I don’t think all this regulation does much except permit false attacks on candidates and limit number of candidates. Donation limit ought to be set at a level where there are many other people giving the same amount

    (1970s era campaign finance “reform”is why we have such poor choices for president.)

    Sammy Finkelman (f1a67c)

  466. It’s not even allowed above an amount that in federal elections that’s now adjusted fir inflation, close to $3,000 per candidate per election.(primary and general count separate, and the donation limit it can be doubled through a spouse where reimbursement is not considered to using a straw donor)

    Even the $3,300 combined limit is to low. I would set it at $500k.

    Rip Murdock (c20088)

  467. You may not think that reducing intolerance and hate is a government interest, but reasonable people might disagree.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:21 am

    That is the role of civil society organizations, such as churches, charities, schools, political and religious leaders, etc. not the government. There is nothing the government can do to change people’s behavior. People will always be intolerant and hateful to varying degrees. It’s human nature.

    Rip Murdock (c20088)

  468. @466

    Because it’s not assault?

    Allow me my hyperbole. But refusing to take reasonable health precautions because one is an ignorant buffoon, and exposing others to a disease that may kill them, is not a minor matter.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:03 am

    Glad you acknowledge it’s hyperbole.

    It’s also not a minor matter that it may NOT be a reasonable health precaution for someone to take the vaccine, and it’s not the person’s responsibility to take that risk for someone else who’s vulnerable.

    Everyone, from rando internet posters to hospital administrators to politicians making public policy aught to read up on medical ethics.

    whembly (5f7596)

  469. @472

    You may not think that reducing intolerance and hate is a government interest, but reasonable people might disagree.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:21 am

    That is the role of civil society organizations, such as churches, charities, schools, political and religious leaders, etc. not the government. There is nothing the government can do to change people’s behavior. People will always be intolerant and hateful to varying degrees. It’s human nature.

    Rip Murdock (c20088) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:46 am

    I’m with Rip on this one.

    Just look in recent history as to why it’s NOT a good idea to empower government to force a civil society.

    whembly (5f7596)

  470. So, neither of you thinks we should have civil rights laws?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  471. It’s also not a minor matter that it may NOT be a reasonable health precaution for someone to take the vaccine

    Blah blah blah blah. Learn math, it’s not hard.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  472. So, neither of you thinks we should have civil rights laws?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:57 am

    Of course civil rights laws are necessary. They protect American citizens from discrimination and enforce constitutional rights.

    Civil and voting rights laws forbid actions, not thoughts. That’s different from trying to ban human emotions. There is no way to make hate or intolerance illegal. You would be punishing someone for bad thoughts.

    A real straw man argument.

    Rip Murdock (4e1d23)

  473. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:57 am

    In a perfect world we wouldn’t need civil rights laws, but given human nature translating into discriminatory actions, they are necessary.

    Rip Murdock (c20088)

  474. @475

    So, neither of you thinks we should have civil rights laws?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:57 am

    Why the hell you interpreted my stance as me opposing civil rights laws?

    Strawman much.

    Address the issue at hand, rather than making up sh!t.

    @476

    It’s also not a minor matter that it may NOT be a reasonable health precaution for someone to take the vaccine

    Blah blah blah blah. Learn math, it’s not hard.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:58 am

    Oh. More bad faith argumentation.

    Stop digging homie.

    whembly (5f7596)

  475. Rip Murdock (4e1d23) — 11/17/2023 @ 10:16 am

    Civil and voting rights laws forbid actions, not thoughts. That’s different from trying to ban human emotions. There is no way to make hate or intolerance illegal.

    Not directly – but laws do influence attitudes – both ways.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  476. Rip Murdock (c20088) — 11/17/2023 @ 9:41 am

    Even the $3,300 combined limit is to low.

    I think $3,300 is the uncombined limit. It is four times as much when you count both the primary and general election (sometimes the primary election is mostly fictional) and allow contributions attributed to spouses.(a spouse cannot become a straw donor even if they live in non-community property states)

    They can contribute a great deal more to various kinds of committees (the opposite of preventing influence peddling) and I think there is a limit on total giving to all candidates per federal election cycle.

    No limit on contributions to organizations whose spending.is supposedlynco-ordinated with the candidate.

    I would set it at $500k.

    It could be unlimited, so long as the number of people who could give unlimited contributions is also limited. This could jump start campaigns which we need.

    Was there great corruption in 1968?

    Congress actually institutionalized corruption in 1974.

    And the other thing – contributions by small donors = leads to mass mailing hysteria or candidates spending a lot of time on the phone asking for relatively small donations (because it always works better when the candidate asks personally)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  477. That is the role of civil society organizations, such as churches, charities, schools, political and religious leaders, etc. not the government. There is nothing the government can do to change people’s behavior. People will always be intolerant and hateful to varying degrees. It’s human nature.

    One could use this exact argument to oppose civil rights laws.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  478. probably could be convinced if Israel goes all Romans-to-Carthage on Gaza.

    There are people who want to destroy Gaza and move its population — into other countries or at least down the road into Egypt. Would not help eliminate rockets.

    Netanyahu has said that Gaza needs to be demilitarized and needs to be deradicallized. And Israel doesn’t want to rule it except for security.

    And the Palestinian Authority, which, according to t=many countries should be ruling Gaza is not suitable. An the U.S.. agrees at this point. I think the Biden Administration hopes that can be worked out and anyway it wouldn’t be the first day. Anyway Mahammad Abbas refuses to take Gaza unless he can also get East Jerusalem and a few other impossibilities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ransom_of_Red_Chief

    The US also wants Gaza and the Palestinian ruled areas of the West Bank to be one country with no unmpeded passage between them – this is what happens when you pace theory above reality.

    Netanyahu says the PA is not suitable (even as a civil authority) because it has not yet condemned the October 7 attacks and still pays money to killers. Biden and Blinken apparently think this will be no real obstacle, at least after a short time.

    It’s unresolved right now. A UN sponsored relief group? Maybe they can get a Willy Brandt type to return from exile.

    Oh. Israel has warned Nasrullah (Hezbollah) that of they start up, Lebanon could look like Gaza)

    A

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  479. The way that reports of donors to California’s Prop 8 were used, from getting a waitress fired to driving a CEO out of his industry, shows what the problems with making petty contributions public.

    And really, who is corrupted by a donation to advocates of an initiative? Only those donating, oh, 1% or more of the total donations need to be reported as the ONLY public interest is “cui bono?”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  480. Netanyahu says the PA is not suitable (even as a civil authority) because it has not yet condemned the October 7 attacks and still pays money to killers.

    Make it a Saudi protectorate. Saudi has wealth to rebuild, Saudi has stability, Saudi needs to curry favor in the Arab (and western) world, and lastly they have assets that would be at risk should they allow terrorism to continue.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  481. And the hospital or its underground – which has had its subbasements hidden from the first level tunnels – is not the last bastion of Hamas. They fled. And they were never much upstairs anyway. Although there are traces.

    The IDF is trying to figure out where they are and where they went and where the entrances to bottom floors are.

    They had a lot of notice and a long time to disappear. And the tunnels connect.

    And they may have some secret hideaway that Israel doesn’t know about.

    They found the torso of the woman whose head was discovered some time ago and also another dead woman

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  482. Kessler, who was counterprotesting in support for Israel opposite a Free Palestine rally on Nov. 5, died hours after he fell backward during a confrontation with Alnaji and struck his head on the ground.

    The news story I read earloer said that he died on Monday – and he fell backward on Saturday so that would be more than.

    I am a bit surprised how typical the leader of the demonstrators (who hit him with the megaphone resulting in him falling and hitting his head on the pavement) was – A college professor.

    Kessler was 69 years old and probably trying to hold on to his flag and his reflexes weren’t that fast and his body too vulnerable and he didn’t know how to fall – but attackers take their victims as they find them.

    Kessler used to wrote lots of letters to the editor to some local publication in Twin Oaks California.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  483. The report I saw also said that there was evidence of a blow to Kessler’s face, possibly what caused him to fall backwards. He may have been stunned or unconscious when he fell.

    I think that the charge of involuntary manslaughter is weak, given that he was struck and struck hard, with intent. I’d look at it as a death in a bar fight. Unintentional death, but intentional violence leading to death.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  484. That is the role of civil society organizations, such as churches, charities, schools, political and religious leaders, etc. not the government. There is nothing the government can do to change people’s behavior. People will always be intolerant and hateful to varying degrees. It’s human nature.

    One could use this exact argument to oppose civil rights laws.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 11:37 am

    Private organizations do not enforce constitutional rights.

    Rip Murdock (c20088)

  485. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/17/2023 @ 12:05 pm

    The report I saw also said that there was evidence of a blow to Kessler’s face, possibly what caused him to fall backwards. He may have been stunned or unconscious when he fell.

    he was conscious. he was worried that some teeth had been knocked out. But his skull was crcked and he got worse.

    I think that the charge of involuntary manslaughter is weak, given that he was struck and struck hard, with intent.

    With intent to hurt him, and it was an illegal act. The professor jumping in to see what Kessler’s condition was probably acted to make it at least look like he didn’t intend to cause that result.

    I’d look at it as a death in a bar fight. Unintentional death, but intentional violence leading to death.

    That’s what it was. Except it was no fight.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  486. How about some concern for the palestinian american boy stabbed to death too! Concern for the palestinian premature babies huddled together for warmth as they slowly die at the al shifa hospital would be good too!

    asset (044cdb)

  487. @489

    Private organizations do not enforce constitutional rights.

    Rip Murdock (c20088) — 11/17/2023 @ 12:15 pm

    And the other point that Kevin is ignoring is that Government cannot infringe on constitutional rights by proxy.

    whembly (5f7596)

  488. @491

    How about some concern for the palestinian american boy stabbed to death too! Concern for the palestinian premature babies huddled together for warmth as they slowly die at the al shifa hospital would be good too!

    asset (044cdb) — 11/17/2023 @ 2:24 pm

    Of course that’s horrible.

    That land owner should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

    Those babies were put in danger by Hamas.

    Hamas, and its ideologies, is untenable for Israel and thus must be destroyed.

    whembly (5f7596)


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