Patterico's Pontifications

11/8/2023

Republican Debate Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:21 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Just a reminder that the third Republican debate is tonight in Miami. The candidates qualified to appear on stage are Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, Tim Scott, Chris Christie, and Vivek Ramaswamy. Donald Trump, who bizarrely continues to lead the pack by a mile, will be a no-show as he is planning on upstaging his competitors at a rally in Hialeah, Florida. He will be seeking to shore up the Hispanic vote in the city where “more than 95% of Hialeah’s 220,000 residents identify as Hispanic or Latino.”

Tonight’s moderators are Lester Holt, Kristen Welker, and Hugh Hewitt.

—Dana

133 Responses to “Republican Debate Open Thread”

  1. I just don’t have much to say about this. Unfortunately, and barring a miracle, everyone’s just playing for second, or a cabinet position.

    Dana (932d71)

  2. Trump will give his entire pitch in Hispanic.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  3. Expect Vivek to continue to game the “They talked about me” buttinski rule.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  4. Dana,

    You may be right, but when things inevitably break against Trump in the courtroom, or he melts down once too often, someone needs to be ready to go.

    Of the ones on stage, only Vivek and maybe Scott would be interested in the VP job, and Trump will pick neither of them.

    I still have to ask, what happens when the president-elect is sentenced to decades in prison?

    Does everyone just pretend it did not happen? Would the Supreme Court get into the issue, deciding whether a felon is disqualified until his citizenship rights are restored? Is an imprisoned felon a “native born citizen” while serving time?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  5. Oh, come on! Where is Vermin Supreme when Ronna McDaniel needs him the most? This is a stupid rigged game to make Trump the Presidential candidate with no regard to the future or the consequences on America.

    nk (1c04e1)

  6. DeSantis starts off by attacking elites.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  7. Why does DeSantis make me wonder where my wallet is?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  8. Why are people here so anti-DeSantis?

    qdpsteve (trying again) (8076a2)

  9. It takes Haley a while to get around to “why not Trump?”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  10. Vivek attacks McDaniel, as it the coach is the problem.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  11. Vivek hits all the MAGA tickboxes.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  12. Christie actually answers without reaching for his stump speech.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  13. Scott mentions that he is up by his bootstraps and everyone else can, too. Faith, opportunity, Christian values and the City on the Hill.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  14. Until we find God, none of our problems will be dealt with.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  15. Remember when Trump pandered to Hispanics by posing with a taco bowl on Cinco de Mayo?

    “Happy Cinco de Mayo! The best taco bowls are made in Trump Tower Grill. I love Hispanics!”

    Thing is that Trump had already lost the academic, activist Mexican American vote, and most of the rest of Mexican- Americans are used to white people from the Northern USA acting like this so Trump probably didn’t lose a vote.

    steveg (ebb759)

  16. Someone should answer the “How did you prepare for the debate?” question by quoting Dr. Evil:
    “There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it’s breathtaking, I suggest you try it.”

    steveg (ebb759)

  17. Gaza.

    DeSantis: Finish the job. Personally saved 700 Floridians.

    Haley: Finish them. I was at the UN! Iran is the real problem. American needs Israel.

    Vivek: Kill them, and I’ll kill the terrorists on our southern border. But not Ukraine — not our table. Haley is “Dick Cheney in 3 inch heels.”

    Christie: We’re here to preserve Israel. End Hamas. Defend borders. Fix their system so this doesn’t happen again.

    Scott: Wipe Hamas off the map. Biden and Obama’s appeasement has led to this war. Hit Iran directly.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  18. Iran:

    Haley: Five in heels and I can run in them. Hit Iran’s terror infrastructure. Biden is appeasing.

    DeSantis: I was in Iraq. Biden is letting troops get shot at and doing very little.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  19. Antisemitism:

    Ratsaswarmy: Comes out of being “lost.” Wokism and a lack of leadership. Blames Haley et al with advocating censorship.

    Scott: Would revoke visas and federal funds over antisemitism. Been working against antisemitism since 2017 (sic).

    DeSantis: Ditto. Would use DoJ to investigate antisemitic schools and groups.

    Christie: USA in NJ following 9/11. Defended mosques and Muslims against post-9/11 hate groups. Same now for antisemitism.

    Haley: Colleges were in chaos already and this is just more of the same. Colleges should react as if this was the KKK attacking black students.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  20. I note that of the 5 on stage, only Vivek has attacked someone else on stage.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  21. Ukraine:

    Scott: Support Israel for now, then the Southern border, THEN worry about Ukraine. After we have an accounting for what they’ve got so far that is.

    Vivek: Enjoy watching Ukraine lose. Zelensky is a Nazi. Russia has good reason to be there. Attacks Haley again.

    Haley: Putin is salivating that Vivek might become president. Vivek interrupts and is slapped down by the moderator (not the “STFU, Donnie” that I’d prefer). Taiwan, Israel, Ukraine, all stand together or fall together.

    Christie: We ignored Hitler for 2 years, and it cost us. How long? As long as we have to.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  22. Ukraine (cont):

    DeSantis: Not going to send troops to Ukraine. Really.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  23. Hialeah don’t count in my mind. If it was the Central Valley, IE, collar Chicago suburbs or somewhere with more Pers and Ders maybe it would blow down doors

    urbanleftbehind (3fcf74)

  24. Chinese Communist Party:

    (Our 291 ship Navy)

    Haley: China has more ships than we do, and they’re all new. Shut China off until they straighten up and fly right.

    DeSantis: We need to fight this as if it was the Cold War. Takes potshots at Haley, she’s not allowed to respond.

    Scott: We don’t even have the industrial base that we’d need to build up our navy. Our short-term threat is our southern border. We need to rebuild a lot in defense, not just the navy.

    Vivek: Vivek seems to think the DoD is buying from China. I know for a fact this is untrue, or at least it’s been untrue for several years. Contracts read “NO F___ING CHINESE PARTS” now. Blame them for Covid. Makes up some stuff.

    Christie: We should be building nuclear attack submarines. Increase it drastically. He’s not wrong. Beating Putin would help.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  25. I think it’s funny that Vivek has been attacking the American fab program (that means Intel) while also complaining how we are dependent on China. He also goes on about phrama, but that’s self-dealing.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  26. TikTok and pro-Hamas propaganda:

    Christie: TikTok is spyware and should be banned or seized. This is sedition poisoning our kids. Facebook. X, etc are not allowed in China.

    DeSantis: Block more than TikTok. Not real keen on most social media, actually. I can picture him selling NetNanny software.

    Haley: (I think this is a mistake) reacts to previous attacks. DeSantis butts in.

    Ratsaswamy: Ignores the fact that he campaigns on TikTok, attacks Haley. Wants to ban AirBnB. Continues to smear Haley. When Haley is allowed to respond, he talks over her with more lies. Called on it, as if he cares.

    Scott: Ban TikTok. Notes that Trump tried by the Courts disallowed. Wants the government to NetNanny. China spies on kids. Stop IP theft.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  27. I cannot imagine any woman voting for Vivek Ramaswamy. He’s like every woman’s dating nightmare.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  28. Venezuela:

    DeSantis: The problem started with Biden hammering US energy companies. We should not need them. Would reimpose Trump’s sanctions.

    Haley: Ditto. We need fracking, drilling (which Ron doesn’t, at least not in Florida).

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  29. Dinesh D’Spuza, you have been knocked out of the top spot for…

    urbanleftbehind (3fcf74)

  30. Inflation (immediate effects?):

    Scott: I was born a poor black child. Approve the Keystone XL pipeline (that ship has sailed). Energy is key. Build here, cut off China. Is told that drilling doesn’t do anything now, responds that expectation drives prices (it has before).

    DeSantis: I was a poor white child. I worked hard. I’ve talked to people who work hard. People need to cut back due to inflation. Will rip up Biden’s plots and plans. Will make the Fed cut rates. Somehow.

    Vivek: We need supply-side economics. Wages have remained flat (huh? they make $20/hour at Mickey’s).

    Christie: Futures markets set prices. Biden’s plans tell them to drive prices up.

    Haley: (rural?) Eliminate gas taxes and the federal spending binge. Go after Covid fraud and veto earmarks. Energy. Inflation, debt and interest rates all make defense and otehr spending harder.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  31. I still think DJT should be there, debating. The more he opens his mouth, the more people will worry. This is Biden level hiding.

    Simon Jester (280b4c)

  32. Entitlements:

    Christie: Retirement age increase long-term must go up. Defends entitlements in general.

    Haley: Retirement age increase is necessary. Limit entitlements for the wealthy (we actually do that now).

    Vivek: He’ll use not giving money to Ukraine to fix entitlements for current seniors. Apres moi, le deluge. Foreign aid. Three card monte follows and I can’t find the pea.

    Scott: Grow the economy. Reaganomics. Laffer Curve. Hard working Iowans. Raising retirement age not so great for manual laborers.

    DeSantis: Joe Izuzu makes another appearance. Inflation is part of the problem. “Going to tell Congress to stop spending so much money.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  33. And your position on abortion is?

    asset (0b4d3e)

  34. In a state where you cannot find a doctor, they run law firm ambulance-chasing ads targeting medical malpractice.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  35. And your position on abortion is?

    This debate appears to be about real things.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  36. Fentanyl:

    Scott: Close the southern border. HiTech surveillance. Sanction China. Also human trafficking and illegal entry. Mental health crisis.

    My plan: stop making safer pain-killers hard to get.

    Christie: Border controls. Drug treatment. Maybe, but kicking addiction requires commitment, and “rehab” doesn’t cut it.

    DeSantis: Close the border. Build the wall, make Mexico pay for it. Really. Use deadly force against border crossers. Haley seems aghast.

    Haley: Blame China — this is warfare on their part. Take out the cartels. Defund sanctuary cities. Catch and deport. Mental health and addiction.

    Vivek: Views fentanyl as bio-terrorism. With all that implies. Worried about the northern border, too. Build a wall against Canada too.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  37. Haley kicks a*s and takes names on abortion issue! Others sweating bullets as they split pro-life vote and Nikky gets all the moderate republican women voters

    asset (0b4d3e)

  38. Abortion, at last:

    (I thought this would be the first question)

    DeSantis: Anecdote about baby girl who was barely not aborted, who is now a FL Supreme Court justice. Referendum losses due to bad politicking.

    Haley: Personal issue. Post-Roe, we have things going different than I’d like. Not likely that Congress will pass an extreme law, either way.

    Scott: 100% pro-life. Would impose a 15-week national limit. Somehow. Is misinformed about some of the state laws.

    Haley (again): We need to agree. This cannot be imposed.

    Vivek: Attacks Haley for not negotiating on stage. Attacks Ohio. Demands sexual responsibility for men (not that he gets laid non-transactionally).

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  39. Abortion (cont)

    Christie: Points out the hypocrisy. State-by-state means state-by-state.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  40. Closing statements:

    Scott: We have a social and spiritual awakening. Faith, responsibility, work, honesty.

    Christie: It’s a gift to be an American. Tired of anger and division. We’re exhausted. Need to return to taking care of business. Our diversity is our strength. Honesty, integrity.

    Vivek: I love the USA. And its founding ideals. End the Big State, end dependence on China and avoid WW3. Calls on Biden to drop out.

    Haley: World is on fire. We need to know how to defend against evil. We need to believe in ourselves. We need 21st century politicians.

    DeSantis: Must reverse decline. Not about the past, but the future. Need leadership. I was in Iraq! You can trust me. I lead.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  41. Hope you enjoyed the liveblog. I may be biased.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  42. This was an INFINITELY better debate than the first two. Only Ratsaswamy couldn’t STFU.

    Haley and Christie won. Vivek did OK if you like that kind of thing. DeSantis muddled through. Scott was better than expected.

    Haley called Vivek a “scum” after he attacked her daughter. Missed that. Vivek went after McDaniel after the debate.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  43. Scott has his mother up on stage for a selfie.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  44. That’s it for me for a while.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  45. I appreciated the summaries, Kevin. Thank you.

    Dana (932d71)

  46. @45 Haley won the others lost. Nobody asked her who wears higher heels her or ron? Biden better hope he is running against trump. If its nikky haley he will lose and wont be able to hide behind abortion issue.

    asset (0b4d3e)

  47. Nickey Haley calls vivek what ever his last name is SCUM! For attack her daughter. Leads all newscasts. Thats millions in free publicity and she was angry when she said it so sincerity bonus! Republican women go crazy about it in after debate focus groups.

    asset (0b4d3e)

  48. Fact-check check:

    “The first thing I can tell you is that when your gas prices are 40 percent higher right now than they were just a little over two years ago, that’s a problem for my mama. That was a crisis.”

    — Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina

    This is false.

    Retail gasoline prices are currently about $3.50 a gallon nationwide — less than 10 cents higher than they were two years ago. Mr. Scott appears to be referring to the price of gasoline during the summer of 2020, when prices dropped drastically in the first months of the coronavirus pandemic because of a plunge in demand.

    They then link here: https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price

    But on Jan 20, 2021, US gas prices were $2.46/gallon. That’s “a little over 2 years ago” and the clear reference. Multiply by 1.4 (the meaning of “40% more”) and you get $3.45/gallon which is a bit less that current prices. So, if anything, Scott understated it.

    As a matter of fact, gas prices were up 40% by November of 2021, and reaching a high of over FIVE DOLLARS/gallon in June of 2022. The claim being made above is that they aren’t that high any more, but that’s really not a great claim for Team Biden.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  49. I favor a $2/gallon federal tax on gasoline in states that ban offshore drilling and/or fracking.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  50. @49 I favor the methane frozen at the bottom of the oceans not thaw and bubble to the surface because the oceans are warming like ice caps melting now.

    asset (0b4d3e)

  51. Reminder: oil production is at an all-time high, and the US is the largest oil producer in the world.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  52. I still think DJT should be there, debating. The more he opens his mouth, the more people will worry. This is Biden level hiding.

    Simon Jester (280b4c) — 11/8/2023 @ 6:26 pm

    They should use Vivek as Trump’s surrogate. Every time Vivek says something, the other candidates should say, “That is Trump’s position (or something Trump has said) and this is why it is wrong/stupid/dangerous.”

    DRJ (163106)

  53. Sam G (8d2ed1) — 11/9/2023 @ 7:49 am

    True that:

    U.S. Crude Production Breaks Records

    U.S. crude oil production hit an all-time high in August, according to new data published by the Energy Information Administration on Tuesday, with production surpassing pre-covid levels.

    U.S. field production of crude oil reached 404.6 million barrels during the month of August, new EIA data shows, for an average of 13.05 million barrels per day–squarely breaking the previous record U.S. drillers set in July of 401.73 million barrels.
    ……….
    Compared to this time last year, U.S. production is up by a total of 33 million barrels for the month.
    ……..

    In fact, US crude oil exports are also at record highs:

    ………
    U.S. crude oil exports hit record highs in the first half of 2023, averaging 3.99 million bpd. That’s up by nearly 20% compared to the first half of 2022, according to data from the Energy Information Administration.
    ………
    As a result of rising production and often favorable arbitrage economics, exports have grown so much that oil is on track to be the largest export item for the United States this year for the first time in history.

    In terms of both volumes and value, U.S. oil exports were the biggest export of all categories in America’s trade with the world through August this year and are likely to be such for the full year 2023—for the first time ever, according to an analysis by Ken Roberts at WorldCity, a company that tracks U.S. exports based on U.S. Census Bureau data.
    ##########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  54. Another fact check:

    Fentanyl for the most part arrives into the US through legal border points of entry by US citizens.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  55. And with regard to Fentanyl as poisoning I/o OverDosing…which group stands the most to gain if white UMC whiz kids desperate to seek an edge balancing academic and extracurricular activities start keeling over? Maybe it’s BOTH kinds of “Asian”.

    urbanleftbehind (e004a1)

  56. They should use Vivek as Trump’s surrogate. Every time Vivek says something, the other candidates should say, “That is Trump’s position (or something Trump has said) and this is why it is wrong/stupid/dangerous.”

    Yes. In fact, calling him “Mini-me” would be accurate.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  57. Compared to this time last year, U.S. production is up by a total of 33 million barrels for the month.

    This is really misdirection. Crude prices are set by expectation at least as much as by supply. It’s a well-known effect.

    Between Jan 2007 and June 2008, West Texas Intermediate spot prices went from $52/barrel to $132/barrel. Marty Feldstein, then at Harvard, published an influential analysis in the WSJ entitled We Can Lower Oil Prices (PDF).

    Although most experts agree that financial speculation was not responsible for the surge in the global prices of food and energy, many people remain puzzled about the source of these remarkable price rises. Economics offers a simple supply-and-demand explanation and reason for optimism about the future of commodity prices. In the case of oil, economics also suggests how policy changes today that affect the future could quickly lower the current price of oil.

    We all know that rising incomes in China, India and the Gulf states have increased the demand for oil and many other commodities. But how could the modest, one-year rise of these demands lead to 100% increases in the prices of oil and other commodities?

    [delete discussion of commodities such as corn where supplies are inelastic]

    Unlike perishable agricultural products, oil can be stored in the ground. So when will an owner of oil reduce production or increase inventories instead of selling his oil and converting the proceeds into investible cash? A simplified answer is that he will keep the oil in the ground if its price is expected to rise faster than the interest rate that could be earned on the money obtained from selling the oil. The actual price of oil may rise faster or slower than is expected, but the decision to sell (or hold) the oil depends on the expected price rise.

    There are of course considerations of risk, and of the impact of price changes on longterm consumer behavior, that complicate the oil owner’s decision – and therefore the behavior of prices. The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (the OPEC cartel), with its strong pricing power, still plays a role. But the fundamental insight is that owners of oil will adjust their production and inventories until the price of oil is expected to rise at the rate of interest, appropriately adjusted for risk. If the price of oil is expected to rise faster, they’ll keep the oil in the ground. In contrast, if the price of oil is not expected to rise as fast as the rate of interest, the owners will extract more and invest the proceeds.

    The relationship between future and current oil prices implies that an expected change in the future price of oil will have an immediate impact on the current price of oil.

    The basic point is that oil production is extremely elastic — merely the matter of turning a spigot — and that people don’t sell today what they think will be worth more tomorrow. A corollary to this is that increasing production capacity, which takes time, does not in itself affect prices. It is only the EXPECTATIONS related to this potential production that matter. After all, even if capacity were to magically increase 10%, you may not get 10% more production at the same or lower price.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  58. And, of course, reducing (or expanding) production based on expectations will drive supply in such a way to increase the expectation of higher or lower prices tomorrow. Positive feedback like this can lead to wild short-term swings in price until expectations and production balance.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  59. Shorter: Tim Scott actually had this right. Reporter don’t know crap about economics.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  60. Lastly, exports or imports don’t affect domestic oil prices. Oil is a global commodity and it’s fungible. Doesn’t matter if it comes from Russia, Iran, Venezuela or West Texas.

    Transport costs exist, but they are secondary and baked into the spot price.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  61. Fentanyl for the most part arrives into the US through legal border points of entry by US citizens.

    Closing the southern border to casual travel would affect that. If the rate of interception increases 10x, the risk would make it far less interesting to attempt.

    But how much would this matter? Truck transport would seem the likely route, and you can hide quite a bit in those Los Pollos Hermanos trucks.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  62. The December 6 debate will likely exclude Scott and Christie. Vivek is on the bubble (he has a few polls now over the 6% cut-off, but most are not). If Scott or Christie (or Bergum or Hutchinson) drop out and endorse one of the others, things might get interesting.

    My fear is that Scott would endorse Trump, in hopes of the VP slot.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  63. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/9/2023 @ 10:03 am

    Literally shutting down the US-Mexico border to all traffic (which you would need to do to forestall all smuggling) would be an economic disaster. Mexico is the second largest US trading partner at $454B (14.2% of total), less than $100B behind China ($536B, 16.5%.)

    It’s much easier for the Republican presidential candidates to propose invading Mexico.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  64. My fear is that Scott would endorse Trump, in hopes of the VP slot.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/9/2023 @ 10:08 am

    Why? Scott’s support is literally down in the weeds.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  65. “They should use Vivek as Trump’s surrogate.”

    I had time-zone confusion and missed 95% of the debate…and just got the filtered perspectives afterwards. Kevin’s running blog was useful.

    The problem still seems to be that debates are about policy and potential policy differences, while the GOP is trapped in a cult of personality. Hence, DeSantis isn’t likable. Ramaswamy is too pompous and annoying. Scott is too nice and vanilla. Christie is too mean. Us political junkies care about NATO and Ukraine….and being tough yet smart about China….how to reduce deficits. The majority of the GOP is most interested in vindication. The only way that people can vindicate voting for Trump is to re-elect him. They want vindication for the Russian probe, for impeachment 1, for January 6th, for the stolen election, and for every other politically-motivated attack on Trump.

    Voting for DeSantis or Haley provides no vindication. That just signals the end of the Trump show…and the depression that that entails. The debate must be solely about Trump. A mini-course on how he’s not just unelectable but unfit. That his cabinet will be filled by the bottom of the barrel people without the standing to tell Trump “no”. And that every terrible impulse that Trump has will no longer be checked. It just doesn’t matter if Haley is more moderate on abortion than Scott or that DeSantis will be tougher on illegal drugs. The only way for any of it to matter is if people are convinced that Trump has already burned bridges with too many independents and his future legal proceedings have made him unelectable.

    Every nutty utterance by Trump needs to be dissected by these candidates so as many voters as possible can understand that he’s dangerous…that he’s a sociopath. They have to pull him under 40% to have any shot. Of what I understand about last night’s debate….the needle was not moved. Haley and DeSantis performed fine but they are battling for the 15% of the others…not Trump’s support. There should be no way that a leading candidate facing 4 criminal proceedings and a civil fraud trial should be able to duck it all. Hard questions should be being posed whether he’s there or not. My preference is to just mock Ramaswamy.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  66. AJ,

    While “the end of the Trump show” has its attractions, I think that as soon as it becomes Haley vs DeSantis, or hopefully just Haley, Trump will be unable to avoid debate.

    “Scared of a woman?” will be the refrain. Baiting Trump is so terribly easy. If this coincides with a trial or two, the idea of a forceful alternative (“she fights!”) will make his Rose Garden strategy untenable.

    Sure, it’s 60-15-15 now, but if it gets to 55-35 and the momentum against Trump, that’s the time when debates with Trump will matter.

    I, for one, am overjoyed that Trump has stayed out of these debates — his presence in the 2016 debates devolved them into free-for-all crapfests, devoid of anything but personalities. Staying out this time has allowed people to choose a challenger. With only Trump and Haley on stage, it will become all about Trump (and the trials will provide a lot of ammunition).

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  67. If the general election is Biden vs Trump, I very much doubt that Biden will debate the felon and traitor, saying that the GOP has lost its mind by nominating someone who should cannot even legally vote.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  68. Why? Scott’s support is literally down in the weeds.

    Because Trump needs to think he’s liked by black folk.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  69. Literally shutting down the US-Mexico border to all traffic … would be an economic disaster

    Indeed. Which is why I said that trucking is the main route (and something hard to stop). I can think, offhand, of about 100 ways to hide small quantities of a substance in large loads of produce. Are you really going to cut open 100,000 avocados to find the 100 where the pit has been replaced by sealed fentanyl containers?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  70. Why? Scott’s support is literally down in the weeds.

    Harris was even further down.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  71. Transcript of the Miami debate on NBC (but not the follllowing show – in the spin room)

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/rnc-third-republican-presidential-primary-debate-transcript

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  72. From the rev.com webpage:

    Easily share sections of your transcripts.

    It just got easier to share sections of Rev’s 99%-accurate transcripts with your colleagues and clients. The Shareable Clips feature lets you highlight a portion of a transcript and share a clip of the audio. Once you share the link, users will be taken to that specific clip within the full transcript.

    I have not tried that.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  73. Here’s the previous debate transcript by the way: (Sep 28, 2023 at the Reagan library)

    On the Fox News Cannel, (not broadcast TV)

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/second-republican-presidential-primary-debate-transcript

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  74. Nikki Haley:

    Let’s make sure we pay down our debt,

    Pay down??

    This is nonsense.

    I think we need an accountant in the White House.

    She does have a Bachelor’s degree in accounting. Like with many things, they keep on raising the educational qualifications. They are starting to require a5th year of college (to take the CPA examination

    Nikki Haley worked as a bookkeeper in her family’s South Carolina dress store. And she never was a CPA.

    Also, the business ran into trouble: (and she didn’t keep proper track of her own personal finances)

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikki-haleys-accountant-boasts-bring-up-her-own-financial-ghosts

    …. And her own financial record is spotted, with her family business racking up multiple liens while she ran the books, additional thousands of dollars in penalties for her personal taxes, and self-enrichment during her time in office.

    And Haley, of all people, would be keenly aware of the ghosts she was summoning. Throughout her 2010 gubernatorial campaign and the ensuing years in office, her financial history and dealings were constantly targeted in the South Carolina press, as a drumroll of exposés revealed everything from the liens to income discrepancies and tens of thousands of dollars in a side hustle exploiting her government connections.

    And that microscope has followed her after the Trump administration, as the finances have gotten larger, more complex, and far more curious. Haley and her husband began to ring up millions of dollars in recent years—some of it in the form of royalties from an illegally run, scandal-drenched tribal casino project that Haley had opposed when she was governor, and where questions still swirl.

    This comes from a biased source and the whole thing is mostly irrelevant, but so is the connection between accounting and the federal budget. She was never a cost accountant.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  75. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/9/2023 @ 10:57 am

    Ramaswamy is too pompous and annoying.

    As Chris Christie oince said, he sounds like CHAT GPT.

    Take this sample, from the closing remarks:

    Vivek Ramaswamy (01:53:39):

    We’ve talked a lot about foreign wars tonight, but we’re in the middle of a war right here at home. It’s a war not between Black and white, or Democrat and Republican. It’s between those of us who believe in our founding ideals and love this country and a fringe minority who hates the United States of America. And I think it’s going to take a commander in chief to lead us to victory in that war, who first of all knows that we’re in a war. Second of all, can’t be captured by the special interests along the way. But third is from the next generation. Somebody with fresh legs to lead us to victory. I’ll shut down the deep state. I’ll declare economic independence from China. I’ll keep us out of World War III and then revive national pride in this country.

    (01:54:18)

    I also want to close with one message to the Democrat party. End this farce that Joe Biden is going to be your nominee. We know he’s not even the President of the United States. He’s a puppet for the managerial class. So have the guts to step up and be honest about who you’re actually going to put up so we can have an honest debate. Biden should step aside, end his candidacy now, so we can see whether it’s Newsom or Michelle Obama or whoever else.

    Joe Biden can be the nominee AND a puppet, but if he’s not the nominee, he won’t be a puppet. Newsome or Michelle Obama could be his replacement, but that’s different from a puppeteeer.

    Scott is too nice and vanilla. Christie is too mean. Us political junkies care about NATO and Ukraine….and being tough yet smart about China….how to reduce deficits. The majority of the GOP is most interested in vindication. The only way that people can vindicate voting for Trump is to re-elect him. They want vindication for the Russian probe, for impeachment 1, for January 6th, for the stolen election, and for every other politically-motivated attack on Trump.

    Voting for DeSantis or Haley provides no vindication. That just signals the end of the Trump show…and the depression that that entails. The debate must be solely about Trump. A mini-course on how he’s not just unelectable but unfit. That his cabinet will be filled by the bottom of the barrel people without the standing to tell Trump “no”. And that every terrible impulse that Trump has will no longer be checked. It just doesn’t matter if Haley is more moderate on abortion than Scott or that DeSantis will be tougher on illegal drugs. The only way for any of it to matter is if people are convinced that Trump has already burned bridges with too many independents and his future legal proceedings have made him unelectable.

    Every nutty utterance by Trump needs to be dissected by these candidates so as many voters as possible can understand that he’s dangerous…that he’s a sociopath. They have to pull him under 40% to have any shot. Of what I understand about last night’s debate….the needle was not moved. Haley and DeSantis performed fine but they are battling for the 15% of the others…not Trump’s support. There should be no way that a leading candidate facing 4 criminal proceedings and a civil fraud trial should be able to duck it all. Hard questions should be being posed whether he’s there or not. My preference is to just mock Ramaswamy.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  76. Scott is too nice and vanilla.

    That’s OK. The question is does he know more?

    And Trump being a felon which won’t happen by November 2024, will not affect too many votes.

    Us political junkies care about NATO and Ukraine….and being tough yet smart about China….how to reduce deficits.

    Nikki Haley tried to address that.

    The debate must be solely about Trump. A mini-course on how he’s not just unelectable but unfit.

    Not just a possible felon, but unfit.

    All that Christie would say is:

    And I’ll say this about Donald Trump. Anybody who’s going to be spending the next year and a half of their life focusing on keeping themselves out of jail and courtrooms cannot lead this party or this country, and it needs to be said plainly.

    But not that there’s actually anything wrong with him.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  77. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/9/2023 @ 12:47 pm

    With a record like that Darling Nikki would be the perfect Trump running mate.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  78. The debate must be solely about Trump. A mini-course on how he’s not just unelectable but unfit.

    Waiting for Godot; it would also alienate his supporters into not voting for whomever is the Republican nominee.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  79. Joe Manchin has announced he is not running for reelection in WVA.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  80. Joe Manchin has announced he is not running for reelection in WVA

    He would lose. Let some other Democrat take the fall. This frees him up for the Presidency, right?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  81. it would also alienate his supporters into not voting for whomever is the Republican nominee.

    Are they that stupid? [caution: rhetorical]

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  82. With a record like that Darling Nikki would be the perfect Trump running mate.

    For Trump, perhaps. For her it would be political suicide.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  83. RIP astronaut Frank Borman (95).

    ……….
    Borman was NASA’s oldest living astronaut, who was best known for his no-nonsense demeanor and who cared more about beating the Soviet Union in the space race than personal glory.

    His discipline and attention to detail are two reasons why NASA selected him to be an astronaut in 1962. He first flew in space in 1965 aboard Gemini 7, a grueling 14-day mission to prove that humans could survive in weightless conditions (in the cramped two-person capsule). Instead of selecting another astronaut with space experience, NASA chose Borman to serve as the mission commander.
    ………
    So when it was time for NASA’s boldest mission — Apollo 8 — there was little doubt that Borman would command it. It was daring — the first time humans left low-Earth orbit and went to the moon, almost a quarter-million miles away.

    The crew of Borman, Jim Lovell and Bill Anders arrived on Christmas Eve 1968 and circled the moon 10 times. The world watched in awe during live TV broadcasts that showed the cratered and forbidding lunar landscape and listened in as the astronauts read a passage from the book of Genesis.
    ………
    This mission captured the famous earthrise photo, showing the earth rising above the barren and gray moon.
    ………
    ………Borman was a quintessential military officer who believed in one thing: beating the Soviet Union. “To him that’s what it was all about. That space was the ultimate battlefield where really the future of war was to be waged,” (Robert Kurson, author of Rocket Men, a book about Apollo 8) said, “And he believed their mission was to beat the Soviets who were an existential threat to us at the time.”
    ………

    Apollo 8 was the first crewed mission launched on the Saturn V rocket. Apollo 8’s Christmas Eve message to Earth.

    Just one week ago astronaut Ken Mattingly, who flew on Apollo 16 and the Space Shuttle, died.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  84. With a record like that Darling Nikki would be the perfect Trump running mate.

    For Trump, perhaps. For her it would be political suicide.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/9/2023 @ 1:20 pm

    It’s the closest she’ll ever get to the White House.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  85. The last Apollo mission returned to Earth December 19, 1972. Fifty years and counting.

    Of those who walked on the moon, only 4 remain:

    Buzz Aldrin (93) (Apollo 11)
    David Scott (91) (Apollo 15)
    Charles Duke (88) (Apollo 16)
    Harrison Schmitt (88) (Apollo 17)

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  86. It’s the closest she’ll ever get to the White House.

    Not with her soul intact.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  87. So, out of all of the 2020 election shenanigans, the one that really struck me as strange really took a turn… the Georgia election integrity lawsuit:
    https://x.com/rasmussen_poll/status/1722728364564271206?s=12&t=LbMzhpSB3yC2zvXzo7p_lA

    Update: Fulton County GA’s High Priced Criminal Defense Lawyers See Writing On Wall, Hit The Silk

    These 150,000 still secret 2020 unfolded mail ballots with perfect ovals protected by court order for 3 years may have gone missing, and the county’s lawyers have just quit.

    These defense attorneys quitting abruptly seems to support the idea that Fulton County is going to admit that those ballots have been destroyed.

    Zero clue what the reprocussion would be, if true. If the court ordered those ballots protected, and someone destroys it… who’s accountable? The Fulton County Election head?? What would that look like? Obstruction of Justice?

    whembly (5f7596)

  88. According to the document tweeted, there 150,000 number refers to ALL absentee ballots. A few of these, it is said, looked suspicious to those who performed hand recounts.

    This is a nothingburger as far as the election goes. Perhaps more meaningful to whomever effed up in the office, though.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  89. there the

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  90. It’s the closest she’ll ever get to the White House.

    Not with her soul intact.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/9/2023 @ 2:49 pm

    Successful politicians have no souls.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  91. To paraphrase The Who, meet the new House Republican Conference, same as the old House Republican Conference:

    House Republicans closed out the week by canceling votes on two party-line funding bills in the span of 48 hours, a setback for new Speaker Mike Johnson and a sign of persisting dysfunction in the chamber ahead of a key funding deadline.

    They pulled a transportation-housing bill late Tuesday as some coastal Republicans opposed cuts to Amtrak. And they yanked a financial services and general government measure on Thursday morning that included divisive anti-abortion language.

    ………(I)t shows how ungovernable the House continues to be after right-wing Republicans ousted Speaker Kevin McCarthy over complaints about his handling of government funding.
    ………..
    “We’re still dealing with the same divisions we always have had,” said another House Republican. “We’re ungovernable.”
    ………..
    Like the financial services measure, several of the remaining House appropriations bills have anti-abortion provisions, which could make it similarly difficult to win the votes of politically endangered Republicans. The issue has sparked fresh anxiety within the GOP after another poor election night earlier this week in which voters in a diverse array of states punished the party for its hard-line opposition to legal abortion.

    Before they pulled the financial services bill on Thursday, 165 Republicans voted for an amendment by Rep. Claudia Tenney, R-N.Y., to cut White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre’s salary to $1. The measure failed as 54 GOP lawmakers joined Democrats to vote it down, but it revealed how an appropriations process that must be bipartisan to succeed has become a venue for partisan sniping.

    Conservatives also were furious over the failure of another amendment — authored by a key Trump ally, Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla. — that would have barred funding to acquire property for the new planned FBI headquarters. ………
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  92. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/9/2023 @ 1:08 pm

    With a record like that Darling Nikki would be the perfect Trump running mate.

    I think she’s more like a Republican Joe Biden, in the way in which she lets herself be pulled toward the extreme of her party, against her actual instincts, although she’s not as big a weathervane as Biden. One shameful thing Biden did is he reversed himself on the Ania Hill.

    Now Biden does tis only when there’s a big imbalance in his party/

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  93. More:

    ………
    House Republicans are all over the map when it comes to how a short-term stopgap bill, known as a continuing resolution, or CR, should be structured. Most of them, however, agree that shutting the government down on Nov. 17 would be a bad idea and would cause more internal GOP strife. Further, a shutdown would be a huge distraction as the party tries to pass its remaining funding bills to set up a negotiation with the Senate on longer-term spending.
    ………..
    In a closed-door meeting this week, Johnson laid out three potential options for averting a shutdown, attendees said: A “two-step” process, favored by conservatives, where a handful of the spending bills would go on a CR through Dec. 7, and the others on a second CR through Jan. 19; a relatively “clean” CR through January to give the House more time to finish passing their spending bills; and Option 3, what leaders described as getting “jammed by Senate, negotiate best we can get.”
    ……….
    Some conservatives say they won’t back a clean funding bill without conservative priorities, while other lawmakers are trying to attach aid for Israel or Ukraine to any CR that moves.

    “I’m not interested right now personally in a clean CR. I want to see something attached to it,” Rep. Roger Williams, R-Texas, suggesting that he wants to see provisions related to the border, but that those being floated in the Senate are insufficient.

    Rep. Andy Barr, R-Ky., said he would like to see a short-term bill that lowers spending from current levels to the caps established in a two-year budget deal in May.
    ……….
    Like several of his ultraconservative Freedom Caucus colleagues, Rep. Ken Buck, R-Colo., is backing the two-step approach, which Johnson has referred to as a “laddered CR.”
    ………
    ……… Budget Chairman Jodey Arrington, R-Texas, called the idea “politically DOA,” arguing that “Democrats will reject it out of hand.”
    ………
    Some lawmakers say the most plausible scenario is that Johnson puts a relatively clean CR on the floor, just before the shutdown deadline, that can pass with both Republican and Democratic votes — just as McCarthy did before his ouster. ……..
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  94. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/9/2023 @ 3:34 pm

    You apparently don’t recognize sarcasm. 😉

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  95. As I’ve said in the past, Trump should pick RFKJr as VP. Two famous names, bipartisan, uniting the Trump and RFKJr Republicans, and they have so much in common: anti-vax, anti-imperialist, anti Deep State, wannabe authoritarians, conspiracy-minded, paranoid, thin-skinned, etc.

    A match made in political heaven.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  96. Trump is not actually anti-vax.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  97. From the debate:

    Hugh Hewitt (56:57):

    Thank you, Governor. Ambassador Haley, speak to the parents out there. There are probably TikTok apps on half the phones in this auditorium.

    Nikki Haley (57:03):

    No, I’m going to speak to the fact that two people hit me [hit is the wrong word here] and you didn’t let me respond. So let’s first talk about the fact that they want to talk about the Chinese land from 10 years ago. Yes, I brought a fiberglass company 10 years ago to South Carolina. But Ron, you are the chair of your economic development agency that as of last week said Florida is the ideal place for Chinese businesses. Not only that, you have a company that is manufacturer of Chinese military planes. You have it. They are expanding two training sites at two of your airports now, one which is 12 miles away from a naval base. Then you have another company that’s expanding and they were just invaded by the Department of Homeland Security. So mine was 10 years ago-

    Gov. Ron DeSantis (57:50):

    You gave them stuff, I didn’t give them anything.

    Nikki Haley (57:51):

    … yours was six months ago. What’s your story?

    Gov. Ron DeSantis (57:53):

    And I abolished that agency that she’s talking about. Enterprise Florida, we abolished it and of course we banned China from buying land.

    Nikki Haley (58:01):

    He scrubbed the website last week. Go check.

    Gov. Ron DeSantis (58:03):

    Not exactly a great recruiting pitch if you’re banning them from purchasing land. So we stood up [inaudible 00:58:08].

    Nikki Haley (58:07):

    You scrubbed your website last week.

    Hugh Hewitt (58:08):

    Thank you, Ambassador Haley. Mr. Ramaswamy, we’ve talked about this. You campaign on TikTok. How do you get TikTok ban if you use it?
    [In the previous debate, Ramaswamy said he used it to reach voters. He could also have said, maybe, that he didn’t put on-public information on it and he wasn’t saying it was character defect to use TikTok, just that TikTok was up to no good and could hurt its users. But he didn’t. Ramaswamy continued here:]

    Vivek Ramaswamy (58:17):

    Well, I want to laugh at why Nikki Haley didn’t answer your question, which is about looking at families in the eye. In the last debate, she made fun of me for actually joining TikTok while her own daughter was actually using the app for a long time. So you might want to take care of your family first.

    Nikki Haley (58:30):

    Leave my daughter out of your voice before.

    [something might be garbled in the transcript here]

    Vivek Ramaswamy (58:33):

    [inaudible 00:58:32] adult daughter. The next generation of Americans are using it, and that’s actually the point. You have her supporters propping her up. That’s fine. Here’s the truth.

    Nikki Haley (58:42):

    You’re just scum.

    Vivek Ramaswamy (58:42):

    The easy answer is actually to say that we’re just going to ban one app. We got to go further. We have to ban any U.S. company actually transferring U.S. data to the Chinese. Here’s a story most people don’t know. Airbnb hands over U.S. user data to the CCP. Now that’s a U.S. owned company. So this is the problem when you have Republicans that temporarily go the way the winds blow and now it’s popular to talk tough on China. When she was UN ambassador called them, literally her words, not mine, “Our great friend.” You can’t be fair-weather fans of the right policy, get to the root cause. Even U.S. companies in Silicon Valley are regularly doing it. Cut the virtue signaling. The fact of the matter is Democrats are on TikTok today. The only person, one of the few people who is putting up content the way the actual algorithms work, speaking for pro-Israel views or others is me [inaudible 00:59:33]-

    Hugh Hewitt (59:33):

    Ambassador Haley.

    Vivek Ramaswamy (59:33):

    … more Republicans will join it. But stop U.S. companies from turning over data to Chinese companies. That’s the real answer [inaudible 00:59:40].

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  98. More:

    Hugh Hewitt (59:41):

    The moderators like Kristen don’t get to respond to personal attacks, but you do.

    Nikki Haley (59:43):

    Thank you very much. When he talks about me praising China, he doesn’t know the fact that the reason China was praised was because I negotiated with China and Russia the largest set of sanctions against North Korea in a generation. That is literally the reason North Korea stopped testing ballistic missiles.

    Nikki Haley (01:00:00):

    …so I said China did good on their part. That was a negotiation you could never do.

    Vivek Ramaswamy (01:00:04):

    You said they were our great friends, is what you said Nikki. Those are your words, not mine. And so just own up to it.

    Nikki Haley (01:00:07):

    You would never have been able to get that negotiation done.

    Vivek Ramaswamy (01:00:10):

    You can change your mind, that’s allowed, but don’t Lie to the people about what you’ve said or what you’ve done in South Carolina.

    Nikki Haley (01:00:16):

    I have fought against China my entire career at the United Nations.

    Vivek Ramaswamy (01:00:16):

    You have brought them to South Carolina, Ron is right about that.

    Nikki Haley (01:00:16):

    Every day I fought China.

    Vivek Ramaswamy (01:00:17):

    Look at the actual hard facts, she brought them to this country.

    Nikki Haley (01:00:18):

    And I did it by making sure that no one could get any agency heads in UN, I did it by making sure that we called them out on human rights. I did it by making sure that we held them accountable on everything that they did. That’s the reason we got out of Human rights Council. That’s the reason we called them out and there’s not been a day I haven’t stopped hitting China.

    But she’s accused of not starting till after she was Governor.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  99. I know the idea of Nikki Haley being the perfect Trump running mate was sarcasm – and I knew that sarcasm was referring to her personal financial record – I just didn’t think that was all that significant. She wasn’t like Trump in more important ways.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  100. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/9/2023 @ 4:28 pm

    As I said above, being Trump’s VP is closest she’ll ever get to the White House. It may be worth it for her-she’s certainly ambitious enough.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  101. It may be worth it for her-she’s certainly ambitious enough.

    “Not worth a warm barrel of s*it.” (he did not mean “spit”)

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  102. LOL!

    ……….
    NBC brought in 6.86 million total viewers and 1.3 million viewers in the key 25-54 age demographic during the 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. debate, according to Nielsen. The first debate this cycle, hosted by Fox News in late August scored some 12.8 million total viewers and 2.8 million viewers in the demo. The second debate hosted by Fox Business Network in late September brought in 9.3 million total viewers and 1.89 million demo viewers.

    The significant drop in viewership is an undeniable boost to former President Donald Trump who has thumbed his nose at the Republican National Committee and vowed to skip all the debates. ………
    ………

    The only reason for Trump to join the debates is if his poll numbers started to slump below 50%, something that is unlikely to happen before the Iowa caucuses (about 9 weeks from now).

    Related:

    The (McLaughlin & Associates) survey asked Republican primary voters if they agreed or disagreed with the following statement:

    Currently Donald Trump is leading in all the Republican primary polls nationally by very big margins of 30, 40 or more points and winning early states like Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina by big margins. Even more important President Trump leads Joe Biden in the national media polls like ABC/Washington Post, CBS, Harvard Harris and others. It’s time to stop the RNC debates attacking Donald Trump, fight Biden’s political indictments, and rally Republicans behind President Trump so we can start the campaign of beating Joe Biden.

    Overall, 76 percent agree with the sentiment that the debates should end, and of those, 56 percent “strongly” agree,” and 19 percent “somewhat” agree. Just 16 percent disagree with the statement, and among those, 11 percent “strongly” disagree and five percent “somewhat” disagree. Eight percent do not know or refused to answer.
    ………..

    Nice loaded question.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  103. What makes you think that the RNC can stop these debates? All they can do is abandon control over them.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  104. What is the “loaded” part of the question, Rip?

    BuDuh (90918e)

  105. What makes you think that the RNC can stop these debates? All they can do is abandon control over them.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/9/2023 @ 5:26 pm

    I never said the RNC could. It’s Trump and his supporters that want the debates to end. But they do have a point. I’m sure as new polls come out over the next few days and weeks there will hardly any movement in the numbers.

    As AJ_Liberty put it, “The debate must be solely about Trump. A mini-course on how he’s not just unelectable but unfit.” Until that happens they are pretty much a waste of time.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  106. What is the “loaded” part of the question, Rip?

    BuDuh (90918e) — 11/9/2023 @ 5:34 pm

    If you wanted a certain result, it’s the perfect question. Given that McLaughlin & Associates works for the Trump campaign (and other Republican officeholders, as well as state and national committees), they are hardly a disinterested pollster.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  107. But… I asked you something else.

    What is the “loaded” part of the question?

    Be specific please.

    BuDuh (90918e)

  108. Besides being nearly identical to the arguments that Trump has made publicly, it enshrines his entitlement not to be challenged.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  109. It was a “loaded” statement??

    Because the question was whether or not you agreed with the statement.

    Would you agree or disagree with the following statement:

    “Currently Donald Trump is leading in all the Republican primary polls nationally by very big margins of 30, 40 or more points and winning early states like Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina by big margins. Even more important President Trump leads Joe Biden in the national media polls like ABC/Washington Post, CBS, Harvard Harris and others. It’s time to stop the RNC debates attacking Donald Trump, fight Biden’s political indictments, and rally Republicans behind President Trump so we can start the campaign of beating Joe Biden.” (Republican Primary Voters, n=449)

    How many people, that responded, were supporters of non-Trump candidates?

    BuDuh (90918e)

  110. How many people, that responded, were supporters of non-Trump candidates?

    BuDuh (90918e) — 11/9/2023 @ 5:56 pm

    No other candidates were identified according to the demographic table next to the slide on page 36.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  111. Any other questions on the survey that could help you out? Or do you think that it is only “Trump and his supporters that want the debates to end?”

    BuDuh (90918e)

  112. I’ll check back much later to see how this gets twisted.

    BuDuh (90918e)

  113. Jill stein enters 2024 race now I don’t have to write in RFK! I will write in jill stein. Unless democrats can’t keep green party off ballot like they did in 2020.

    asset (95077e)

  114. As AJ_Liberty put it, “The debate must be solely about Trump. A mini-course on how he’s not just unelectable but unfit.” Until that happens they are pretty much a waste of time.

    And as I said, that will have to await Trump as only Trump can demonstrate how unfit he is. When it’s down to 1 or 2 others, then it will be Trump vs the others.

    In 2016 it was 6 contenders tearing each other up while Trump was untouched. If Trump had attended the first debates, Vivek, DeSantis and Scott would have fallen all over themselves attacking Christie and Hutchinson. But with 2 strong opponents who MUST knock Trump out to win, the dynamic is different.

    So, give it time. Let Trump try to say away while everyone says he’s afraid to face a girl.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  115. How many people, that responded, were supporters of non-Trump candidates?

    Indeed. A push-poll that offends everyone who would answer wrong.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  116. @114 70% of republicans are populists attacking trump is attacking 70% of republican voters if your not careful.

    asset (95077e)

  117. College campus antisemitic bigotry, this time at MIT.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  118. #117 If my quick searches were correct, at MIT, CAA is the Coalition Against Apartheid, and DUSP is the Department of Urban Studies.

    Ironic names, both of them.

    Jim Miller (6ba8c8)

  119. Here’s the DUSP site. (They claim to be in favor of “racial justice”.)

    Jim Miller (6ba8c8)

  120. Speaker Johnson on the impeachment inquiry.

    Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.), a constitutional lawyer by training, has taken a more reserved tone, both publicly and privately, urging members to conduct a thorough and fair investigation with no predetermined outcome. In a closed-door meeting with House GOP moderates this week, he indicated that there is insufficient evidence at the moment to initiate formal impeachment proceedings, according to people who attended the meeting.

    Given the ongoing Comer trainwreck to date, I can’t blame him.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  121. Jill Stein was a Putin stooge more than Mike Flynn. (She tried to take it away from Trump with recounts in 2016 I think because Trump was toying with naming Mitt Romney as Secretary of State)

    Sammy Finkelman (10a31d)

  122. There is pro-terrorist group support on college campuses probably because of contributions by some Arab states to college endowments, creation if chairs and contributions to non profit groups all of which cannot stand on their own, Networking goes into K-12 also,

    Big pro-Hamas or anti_Israel demonstration in NYC yesterday which included many students given time off from high school – accused New York Times of favoring Israel, maybe because a PR story to NYT backfired, Hamas intended to say they planned Oct 7 alone and only got general help from Iran but headline was that Hamas wanted a permanent state of war (which is obvious)

    Sammy Finkelman (10a31d)

  123. College campus antisemitic bigotry, this time at MIT.

    This should be treated as if it was the Klan harassing black students.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  124. OT: NY Post attacks Washington Post for censoring Nov 8 Ramirez cartoon. Apparently saying that Hamas is using human shields is racist or something.

    https://nypost.com/2023/11/09/opinion/washington-post-made-huge-mistake-in-killing-hamas-cartoon/

    Probably make a good image for this week’s open thread.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  125. @121 there’s a picture of both Stein and Flynn at a table with Putin at https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-k0obrXQAALT2i?format=jpg&name=large.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  126. I see conservatives are joining the clintonistas in attacking jill stein. Welcome to clinton’s world.

    asset (3f1d33)

  127. Hi Rip
    About your Fentanyl fact check back in post #54

    First of all, thanks for that link from the CATO Institute. I’ll agree with most of their conclusions for the sake of conversation but have some comments.

    Socially irresponsible dual national cartels sell a dangerous unsafe, unregulated, untested homemade consumer product, fentanyl, to willing American citizen buyers.
    I did not see an article by CATO during the Purdue Pharma oxy mess written to point out that the buyers of Oxycontin were willing American citizen, deflecting the blame onto the addicts, but sure, I get it. American citizens should be responsible for their bad consumer choices, and the people in the corporation or cartel who manufacture, distribute in bulk are responsible for manufacturing and marketing of an addictive deadly product.

    CATO decided not to dive into the numbers when it came to “American citizens”. In my state, most of the drugs that originate in Mexico are trafficked in high volumes by dual nationals with deep connections on both sides of the Mexico/US border. For the sake of figuring out who is to blame for this massive large scale multi billion operation, lets leave out the addicts and look into who is manufacturing the drugs, who is paying the truckers, who is orchestrating human waves of border crossers to distract and overwhelm Customs and Borders. If all the Customs and Border people, resources currently bogged down with waves of illegal immigrants were repurposed into drug interdiction maybe we would be able to make some headway.

    When Panga boats are intercepted on or just off our coast, the boat is usually operated by a Mexican national, and the mules are predominantly Mexican nationals who for a few bucks off engage in a no frills crossing, get seasick, take the risk of muling drugs up a ravine up to the 101 in the dead of night hiding more vehicles come to pick the mules up and everyone is supposed to vanish. Most of the time it works. This is a small time operation. Not sure if it is an “express delivery” option or maybe just “mom and pop” (or both). I doubt the cartels would give these operators a pass for encroaching into their territory via an unsanctioned activity, so the cartels are connected somehow.

    To sum it up, in my part of California the import and wholesale distribution business is primarily Mexican nationals and Dual nationals and yes they do use Mexican nationals and OTM’s as mules in two ways that I know of. Panga boats and also the type of muling where they cross the border with a boxy pack run to a drop off at a rally point, then scatter off in vehicles. The illegal immigrants that mule usually say they were shanghai’d into it and get released or at worst get a bus ride back to Tijuana.
    I’m willing to concede that these two smuggling methods only account for 14% of the drugs and I guess only 14% of the overdose deaths.

    Consumer protection put Purdue Pharma into bankruptcy for selling to willing buyers

    steveg (51f2bd)

  128. “Consumer protection put Purdue Pharma into bankruptcy for selling to willing buyers”

    Was a remnant I thought I’d deleted. Sorry

    steveg (51f2bd)

  129. ……..
    Let Trump try to say away while everyone says he’s afraid to face a girl.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/9/2023 @ 9:49 pm

    Now who’s misogynistic?

    Rip Murdock (090c65)

  130. Kevin M (ed969f) — 11/9/2023 @ 9:49 pm

    Still won’t make a difference-Trump has no shame, so not debating Haley won’t bother him, and (all other things being equal) he will be the Republican nominee before the remaining candidate field gets down to one.

    I’ll bet DeSantis will be in the race at least through the Florida primary (March 19, 2024) even if Trump clinches the nomination (or has an overwhelming delegate lead) after Super Tuesday (March 5, 2024).

    No one will get a one on one chance against Trump.

    Rip Murdock (090c65)

  131. Now who’s misogynistic?

    Trump? I don’t know how you get any other takeaway.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  132. “Consumer protection put Purdue Pharma into bankruptcy for selling to willing buyers”

    Luckily we could take Oxy and Vicodin off the market for most people who “didn’t really need it”, making them face their obvious addictions. It’s not like they’d turn to black market fentanyl instead, right?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  133. Still won’t make a difference-Trump has no shame, so not debating Haley won’t bother him,

    If his followers think he scared of a skirt, he might change his mind.

    Kevin M (ed969f)


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