Patterico's Pontifications

11/2/2023

Fierce Love Counters Hate

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:30 pm



[guest post by Dana]

I have been overwhelmed by the hatred shown toward the victims kidnapped by Hamas. And if mere posters depicting the victims elicit such rage, how much more will the victims themselves when they are rescued and publicly share their testimony? Online one can daily find demonstrations of smug young ghouls tearing down these posters affixed to bulletin boards and telephone polls, and wherever there is room. Interestingly, most of the ghouls that I’ve seen confronted over their actions typically utter some profanities, repeat empty slogans that blame Israel and/or the Jews, and then flip the bird as they self-righteously stomp off. We can posit all sorts of reasons for their actions: we can attribute it to their politics, their immersion in institutions of higher education, rationalize that they’re outliers, or, perhaps realize that this IS American higher education. Immediately after the terror attack on Oct. 7, even the angriest protesters howling at the moon dared not say the quiet part out loud. Perhaps they instinctively knew that it would be a step too far. However, with the passage of time, Hamas – a vicious terrorist group – is now being publicly revered by young people on American campuses, without any sense of shame. A vile group whose leaders have pledged to continue its assault on Israel until it is wiped off the map, is having its day in the West.

It’s an ugly time. At the end of the day, though, I think human nature can be an irrational beast that too often finds its lifeblood in hate rather than love. Tactile hate is easier to grab onto, and easier to incorporate into a angst-ridden soul of seething rebellion. And in the United States, the tendency of young people to romanticize tyrants and fools is unsurpassed. I know because I was once young. But then again, I’m old now, so what do I know…

Anyway, this moment wins the day for me:

Maybe some of these young people will get a clue.

—Dana

26 Responses to “Fierce Love Counters Hate”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (932d71)

  2. As a lefty who opposes the ceasefire until Israel is ready. I have disagreements with with my fellow leftists who think Islam and hamas are on our side. As for the education system people on the left are attracted to it, as people on the right are attracted to business and sales. You will find few lefty used car dealers. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. Netanyahu is a corrupt opportunist and I can loathe him and the racist likud party with still supporting Israel as half of Israel feels the same as I do. Educate those who tear down pictures of Israeli children to instead put up pictures of palestinian children. Most liberals as well as leftys don’t like to breath the same air that trumpsters breath. They loathe conservatives as much as conservatives loathe them. Because msnbc and cnn or corporate media they don’t attack the right as hard as fox and talk radio attacks liberals and somewhat lesser the left ;but they hate the right just as much. Liberals like the late christopher hitchens, bill maher and others try to have a dialog and educate the left on the evil that is Islam and hamas and should get more support from your side ;but many christo-fascists hate gays as much as Islam.

    your side.

    asset (ed3217)

  3. I seem to recall the posting of photos after 9/11 on New York City streetsides, and anywhere else the spirit moved someone to share an image of a loved one whose life was ended untimely by terrorism. Didn’t even NYT post names and images of 9/11 victims in its pages? (I might be wrong on that, so correct me if I am.)
    A memorial was even built on the building site, with names read aloud at the dedication (again, IIRC.)

    Were these vandals who destroy Israeli massacre victims’ photos of any age of reason on 9/11? Do they have any personal memory of how terrorism victims’ representations might be treated wtih solemnity and dignity? Or are they so consumed with the hate-fad of the day that they’re operating with empty brains and souls and hearts, empty of memories, empty of empathy, empty of, yes, love?

    They are hollow people, and I pity them for their shallowness.

    ColoComment (11edf7)

  4. I have been overwhelmed by the hatred shown toward the victims kidnapped by Hamas.

    It’s not hatred, it’s loyalty.

    This is loyalty:

    Interestingly, most of the ghouls that I’ve seen confronted over their actions typically utter some profanities, repeat empty slogans that blame Israel and/or the Jews, and then flip the bird as they self-righteously stomp off.

    They wouldn’t be so rational as to teardown posters if it was hate. These posters harm the cause of Hamas. It’ like tearing down posters put up by an opposing candidate in a political campaign. Possibly they are being paid to do so. (they may be loyal, but they wouldn’t take the time and make the effort if they weren’t being compensated.

    It’s not personal – it’s business or what their cult leaders want..

    And if mere posters depicting the victims elicit such rage, how much more will the victims themselves when they are rescued and publicly share their testimony?

    Much less. Because they don’t want to call attention to the victims.

    What we’ll have to worry about is what will happen in the event Israel uses the atomic bomb or something.

    But then they will attack Jews in general or anyone perceived to be on Israel’s side. All the vicious messaging is just to prime people for that day.

    I keep on going back to the idea that that is Iran’s master plan. Except maybe the plan is to get people to think that will be the result and to deter a response to Iran using a nuclear bomb. For that anger has to be gradually stoked.

    Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9)

  5. ColoComment (11edf7) — 11/2/2023 @ 4:16 pm

    Didn’t even NYT post names and images of 9/11 victims in its pages? (I might be wrong on that, so correct me if I am.)

    Yes they did, for many days, post brief biographies. But the posters in NYC were of the “missing”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  6. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/2/2023 @ 4:40 pm

    Thanks for clarifying.

    ColoComment (11edf7)

  7. @4 one side always thinks the other side is being paid to do it. Soros money and the like. While their are paid agent provocateurs like terry norman who fired the first shot at kent state that is very rare. The other side believes just as strongly as your side. Also while to many believe history of the middle east started on 9-11 and all the women and children killed by america direct or in direct action don’t count before 9-11. It does. In the movie battle of algeirs a captured guerrilla leader is asked why do you send women with bombs in their hand bags to blow up our airports? He answers you bomb our villages with jet bombers. We don’t have jet bombers ;but we would gladly trade our hand bags for your jet bombers!

    asset (f6aadf)

  8. Dana, I suspect that the tearing down of posters is not an expression of hate for the victims but rather anger that the posters are being used to gin up support for a war that will kill many Palestinians who they view as innocent.

    I might be wrong and haven’t actually talked to anyone who is angry at posters of victims but that’s my guess. To me it makes much more sense than monsters angry at victims for… reasons?

    Nate (1f1d55)

  9. People like to spend time in their amygdala instead of their frontal cortex. Also, we have to understand that people, even people we have a lot of respect for, have blind spots. And on top of that the complicated history of Palestinians and Israelis. Hamas did a terrible thing, Israel is probably over-reacting at this point, but Hamas still did a terrible thing and I don’t know that Israel has a ton of options on how to respond (or how they wanted to respond). The situation sucks and nobody is totally clean, but if your stated ambition is to kill everyone on the other side, maybe you can’t expect mercy from the other side all the time and maybe the kill everyone side isn’t the lightest gray in the conflict.

    Nic (896fdf)

  10. You may be right, Nate. It sounds plausible, honestly, I just don’t know.

    Dana (932d71)

  11. Israel is probably over-reacting at this point

    What’s your calculus for determining an overreaction to the slaughter of 1,400 people and the kidnapping of 220+ by a terrorist group?

    Dana (932d71)

  12. @Dana@11 That is me recognizing that I have my own prejudices in this. My long term opinion of the conflict is that the Palestinians are lucky (or maybe unlucky, because maybe if they’d ripped the bandaid off 2 generations ago, things would be mostly over now) that Israel hasn’t just pushed them all out of the country entirely. OTOH, I also recognize that it is a personal prejudice and that I don’t have a good read on where the line should be. Frex, a lot of people would put the line at bombing a refugee camp that has Hamas weapons hidden underneath it. OTOH, not doing that would just encourage Hamas to keep hiding weapons under refugee camps.

    (I do have one reasonably moderate opinion on the conflict. The settlements are not reasonable. My reasons for the opinion aren’t moderate though, I just think it’s a ridiculous level of incrementation. Either win the war and take the territory, or get out.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  13. Look at the map of settlements and there is a reason to the rhyme.
    There is a large buffer between Jordan and the west bank. This is good for Jordan and also protects the Jordan river.
    I am guessing that Jordan won’t say this in public often, but they are fine with this buffer between themselves and the Palestinians
    The Palestinian settlements are broken up into segments so there is not a large connected mass of humanity like we see in Gaza
    Places can be isolated from each other more easily, movement restricted.
    Hezbollah in Lebanon is more of a threat that Palestinians on the west bank are and this is partly due to how chopped up the west bank is

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39449510

    steveg (e7ae14)

  14. Dana

    I appreciate the tone and intent of this post. It looks to me like the sign on the store in the background is in English and Hebrew.
    It looks like a very Jewish-friendly neighborhood. The man is still being a sweetheart and gets great credit for that.
    There is a video out there of an African American woman (I think she is in NYC and granted not all people of African descent in USA are African American) The woman is using clear tape and carefully wrapping the entirety of each poster all the way around the post so they cannot be easily ripped down.

    steveg (e7ae14)

  15. The problem is netanyahu is corrupt and venal. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Dr. Samuel Johnson. The world loathes netanyahu including in his likud party. This is causing Israel good will that it should have so it looks like political posturing from his supporters. Peggy Noonan as a very good post that was put here on the subject.

    asset (f6aadf)

  16. Michigan democrats warn Biden democrats could lose Michigan in 2024 so he came out today for a ceasefire. Muslim vote is important in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin. In 2016 trump won Michigan by 10,000 votes with green party’s Jill Stein getting 55,000 votes and another 80,000 democrats voted down ballot ;but left presidental race blank giving state to trump. Muslim voters could do the same in 2024. In wisconsin 2016 went to trump by 22,000 votes wilth jill stein getting 38,000 votes in 2020 biden only won by 20,000 votes with green party kicked off ballot to prevent not voting for biden. so it wouldn’t take much to switch back to republican in 2024. Biden’s dilemma how to not infuriate muslim voters while supporting Israel.

    asset (f6aadf)

  17. Like many of our inner cities with young men lured into gangs and illegal trade, the young men of Gaza have been sold the myth that this is what men do. They kill, rape, torture, and kidnap civilians because responses like compromise and peaceful coexistence have been sold as unmanly. Is there any surprise that inhuman action causes a response….and that that response is less than civil?

    I still wonder who governs and maintains the peace in Gaza after Israel tries to root out the termites. How do you even begin to rebuild Gaza? The Arab neighbors have to stop agitating the violence and come up with better options. Another regional war is not the answer. These young men need (deserve?) more than the sad promise of 72 virgins to waste their lives away.

    AJ_Liberty (aaa9c7)

  18. They killed, raped, tortured, and kidnapped when they owned the whole place. From the Indus to the Danube, and from Timbuktu to Sarajevo. At home and abroad in the service of their caliphs and sultans.

    They thought that they could let the kibbutzniks turn their sand lots into lush oases and take them over when the British left. Then they found out that the kibbutzniks now called themselves Israelis, the girls in the khaki shorts and short-sleeved blouses could handle a Sten gun as well as any man, and that they were there to stay.

    nk (1febb3)

  19. And Hamas is not random disaffected youths breaking windows and jumping on cars on the Magnificent Mile because of “lack opportunity in their own neighborhoods”. It is a well-organized and well-funded governmental organization with international support and terrorism aas its foreign policy. It may recruit from those youths but so does the U.S. Army.

    nk (1febb3)

  20. Unfortunately there has scarcely been a lack of anti-Semites and hatemongers in higher education since the ‘60s, but I’d be infinitely more concerned about anti-Semites and terrorism supporters in our government getting security clearances.

    Whether or not that concern is shared across the partisan divide, we can be fairly certain it’s not shared by this administration.

    lloyd (57f8c4)

  21. Nate (1f1d55) — 11/2/2023 @ 6:21 pm

    Dana, I suspect that the tearing down of posters is not an expression of hate for the victims but rather anger that the posters are being used to gin up support for a war that will kill many Palestinians who they view as innocent.

    No, no no. It’s anger at their job being interfered with – maybe it might cost them money, or just make it more difficult. Their hatred is incoherent according to Dana. Their angeer is personal – their task is business.

    By the way, when they show rubble, they don’t show furniture or refrigerators or TVs. The worst destruction may not be of ordinary living quarters.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  22. The NYT “Portraits of Grief” series continued for months (I should not have said days)

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  23. I agree with Sammy. The hatred is ingrown, but tearing down the posters is for the purpose of quashing any counters to their narrative.

    nk (1febb3)

  24. For most of the liberal left, Israel is always in the wrong.

    For these people, there’s nothing Hamas can do that would change their minds and I despise these people more than anything.

    We’re dealing with true believers… an honest to god cult.

    And it stems from Marxist principles that permeate their views of politics. And its how they identify and pit various groups into the “oppressed” vs the “oppressor”.

    The adherents to Marxism will always justify any heinous acts by the “oppressed” (aka Hamas).

    How do we combat against those who advocate through these Marxist lenses?

    To that, we must be get better at addressing directly with these liberal lefts and reject their “oppressed” vs the “oppressor” framework.

    This include dealing with woke behaviors, such as BLM, trans-advocacy, and the likes.

    Relentlessly refuse to engage on their terms and actually PUSH BACK.

    Refuse to play by The Marquess of Queensberry Rules and actually go for the proverbial throat. That is the only language they would understand.

    As an example, the Biden Administration would never do this, but the next GOP administration must be willing to deport any blatant Hamas sympathizer who’s here on any green card or temp stay visas.

    It’s harsh, but these people won’t stop unless examples are made.

    whembly (5f7596)

  25. *Illiberal Left

    Sam G (8d2ed1)


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