Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Let’s go!
First news item
A Saudi dairy company that grows hay in Southern California and Arizona for export to the Middle East is set to lose several leases that allow it to pump unlimited water from government-owned farmlands.
Arizona Gov. Katie Hobbs announced this week that the state has terminated one of the leases held by the company, Fondomonte, and will not renew three other leases when they expire in February.
…
Fondomonte, a subsidiary of the Saudi dairy company Almarai, also owns thousands of acres of farmland in Arizona and California, producing alfalfa that is shipped overseas to feed cows.
Second news item
Loose lips sink ships and we all know that the former President is not known for being discreet:
Months after leaving the White House, former President Donald Trump allegedly discussed potentially sensitive information about U.S. nuclear submarines with a member of his Mar-a-Lago Club — an Australian billionaire who then allegedly shared the information with scores of others, including more than a dozen foreign officials, several of his own employees, and a handful of journalists, according to sources familiar with the matter.
A few details from Anthony Pratt, the subject involved:
According to Pratt’s account, as described by the sources, Pratt told Trump he believed Australia should start buying its submarines from the United States, to which an excited Trump — “leaning” toward Pratt as if to be discreet — then told Pratt two pieces of information about U.S. submarines: the supposed exact number of nuclear warheads they routinely carry, and exactly how close they supposedly can get to a Russian submarine without being detected.
In emails and conversations after meeting with Trump, Pratt described Trump’s remarks to at least 45 others, including six journalists, 11 of his company’s employees, 10 Australian officials, and three former Australian prime ministers, the sources told ABC News.
Third news item
Will Californians’ increasing frustration about homelessness and property crime lead to the Golden State moving politically to the right? Some see the latest decision by the mayor of San Francisco as an indicator that it just might:
Last week in San Francisco, London Breed, the city’s mayor, announced a bill to deny welfare benefits to anyone “suffering from substance-use disorder” who was not enrolled in a drug rehabilitation or treatment program. “No more handouts without accountability,” Breed said. “In order to receive resources from our city, you will need to be in a substance-use-disorder program and consistently seeking treatment.”
And yet, let’s face it: voters in California aren’t known for the ability to put two and two together:
Up north, the recall of Chesa Boudin in San Francisco was supposed to be proof that voters in a famously liberal city had had enough, but soon after Boudin was recalled, Pamela Price, a fellow-progressive, was elected as the district attorney of Alameda County. Now Price herself is facing a similar recall campaign, which some would marshal as proof that “the wokes” have lost for good.
Fourth news item
“(Russian President Vladmir Putin) is losing the war because the Ukrainians are getting western equipment from the United States and (the European Union). But he continues to throw more and more men into battle to die,” said British financier and activist Bill Browder.
“Putin’s big bet is that he doesn’t have to win the war, he just has to outlast the patience of the West.”
Meanwhile, next week’s vote for House speaker will impact future aid to Ukraine, given Reps. Steve Scalise and Jim Jordan’s opposing views of the issue. Scalise has supported additional aid to Ukraine, while Jordan has voiced his opposition to it.
Fifth news item
A Russian missile strike killed at least 51 people, including a child, in a village near the eastern Ukrainian city of Kupiansk on Thursday, officials say, in one of the deadliest attacks against civilians since the conflict began.
Moscow’s forces targeted a cafe and a shop in Hroza, in the Kharkiv region, soon after midday local time, according to Ukrainian Interior Minister Ihor Klymenko.
Kasparov unloads in response:
This is murder. This is Russia’s attempt to eradicate the Ukrainian state and the Ukrainian people. While Scholz refuses to provide weapons Ukraine could use to defend itself by striking military targets, the Russian terror state continues to strike civilians. Cowardly Western politicians are more worried about hypothetical Russian military targets than about real Ukrainian civilians. There will be no peace until Ukraine is whole and free, and the only way that can happen is for Ukraine to win this war as quickly as possible. Biden, Scholz, all the rest withholding the weapons Ukraine needs to stop this slaughter: Stop protecting a terror state. Stop siding with the terrorists because you still think you can make deals with Putin. Be on the right side of history now and save more lives. When in history has anyone regretted acting more quickly to prevent terror and genocide? No, the regrets always come after doing too little, too late. Ukraine is already paying the price in blood, fighting the war NATO was created for alone. Stop dreaming there is a way back with Putin, that Cold War-style great power deals can or should happen. Russia is a terrorist mafia and must be defeated, not bargained with. Concessions and negotiations with Russia are only death by another name and Ukraine has bled enough.
Sixth news item
Black musician David Ryan Harris was accused of child trafficking while on an American Airlines flight:
The singer-songwriter, who is Black and was traveling with his two biracial children, questioned whether the incident was an instance of racial profiling, which he said had left him “shocked and humiliated.”
Shortly before landing, a flight attendant had asked his children for their names. His 7-year-old, who Harris said is shy and was tired from a 4 a.m. start time to catch their early flight, didn’t immediately respond, instead looking toward Harris. “One of them is pretty shy — I always have to tell him, ‘Hey buddy, tell the guy your name, shake his hand, look him in the eye,’ and quite frankly he doesn’t owe that to anyone,” he said of his son Hendrix.
The airline has since offered Harris an apology:
This week, American Airlines issued its apology to Harris — who has toured with John Mayer and performed with the Dave Matthews Band and Carlos Santana — nearly three weeks after the incident. The airline said that the flight attendant did not follow policies on identifying possible signs of human trafficking.
Three weeks later…
Seventh news item
Instead of sides, we need to speak, and think, in terms of positions. On any given issue, there are almost always more than two. But adopting a position is very different than choosing a side. It takes thought; it takes investigation; it takes a willingness to consider alternatives. Sides are intellectually easy and emotionally satisfying. Positions are intellectually challenging and emotionally complex. Once you know which side you’re on—in the culture war, or the political war—you can let your friends, or your podcasts, do your thinking for you. But “positions” requires you not only to think things through for yourself, but to think each issue through on its own terms, from the ground up.
Great reminder.
Eighth news item
A resolution celebrating Pride Month and affirming support for the LGBTQ community was unanimously passed by the Los Angeles Unified Board of Education in June 2022. Thus, the week of Oct. 5-9 has been designated as the period of time LAUSD schools – including elementary schools – will celebrate ‘National Coming Out Day’. You can read the resolution here. You can view the Week of Action Toolkit for Elementary Students provided to teachers here. They just keep giving parents of young children more reasons to to opt out of public education.
Have a great weekend.
—Dana
Happy Friday!
Dana (932d71) — 10/6/2023 @ 8:22 amRIP Pro Football Hall of Famer (of “Da Bears”) Dick Butkus (80):
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 8:46 amI wonder when Californians will actually wake up. I’m not encouraged by the shallowness of their politics. Maybe when gasoline cars double in price in a few years due to mandated shortages (less than half of all new vehicles sold in 2028), or when gas is $5/gallon over the national average and hard to find.
Or maybe it will be when they are taxed out of their socks to support the ever-growing “unhoused” population, or their kid’s schools drop the last college-track math classes in favor of more gender and ethnic studies, or their savings are taken by the state to pay for “reparations” for something Democrats did in the past.
But I doubt it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 8:57 amSide v. Position
Not likely. Our political system reinforces sides and makes “positions” unimportant. Until we have a system that allows a range of views in elected officials, rather than polar factions, no one will care about “positions.” For the most part, having a position at odds with one’s party is the kiss of death. A pro-life Democrat or a gun-control Republican is going to have a tough time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 9:01 amYou may think “Oh, this is California, not here” but an increasing number of blue states are embracing the California EV mandate (see timeline chart). This will effect vehicle production nationwide, if not world wide. Maybe it will mean that all the gasoline cars go to red states, but it’s more likely that the CA schedule will effect everyone.
ANd it’s incredibly silly because the massive demand for raw materials for these batteries will cause widespread envirronmental damage (think: strip mining in rainforests). A slower approach, aiming at fleetwide HEVs and PHEVs, would gain much of the desired greenhouse gas reduction without raping the Earth for nickel and cobalt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 9:10 amSixth news item-
If a stranger came up to my child and asked them their name, I would tell them they had five seconds to leave before things get really bad. This an example of governmental overreach-there must be a federal regulation involved somewhere.
Stew-I mean, flight attendants-aren’t law enforcement investigators. They are there to ensure the comfort and safety of the passengers during the flight, not to determine if a crime is being committed.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 9:36 amButkus would never survive in today’s NFL-too many rules.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 9:39 amThat’s why I like professional wrestling. They know how to put on a show for the entertainment of assholes without hurting each other except by accident.
nk (7cb873) — 10/6/2023 @ 9:51 amRegarding the Saudis using Arizona water to grow the crops that feed Saudi cattle, they’re doing it this way because they’re forbidden to grow those crops on their soil, for conservation reasons, so they’re exploiting our water resources instead.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:05 amHere’s a classic Butkus exchange on Twitter.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:07 amThat’s exactly why I don’t like professional wrestling-it’s fake, and there’s nothing really at stake.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:08 amHere are more classic Butkus exchanges, though a bit one-sided.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:15 amI was slow on the draw with the Butkus RIP which is probably bad since I am a U of I grad and I resided many years feet from his Chicago HS (Vocational) and had several relatives that went to the school in its 50s-60s heyday. But this morning I heard Butkus and some pals got into a confrontation with several of my dad’s side relatives and acquaintances as yoots and both sides backed off.
urbanleftbehind (6b2169) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:15 amit’s fake, and there’s nothing really at stake.
What’s in a professional football game for me?
nk (0de5e0) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:20 amStunning news bound to reshuffle the Republican race for president.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:23 amI have no idea, since I don’t know you personally. But for the fans who enjoy any team sport, it’s cheering for your favorite team, whether the hometown team or a team you followed in your childhood, or has a favorite college player on it, or you just like seeing a well-played game.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:30 amNew battery chemistries that are more environmentally friendly are on the way, as are solid state batteries that are more energy dense and safer than those with liquid electrolytes.
Agreed that HEV/PHEV is the way to go if looking for overall better reductions in greenhouse gasses, at least as it comes to usage of lithium battery cells and how many are required for a HEV/PHEV vs BEV.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:37 amI’d like to see the NFL return to the days when players played both sides of the ball-offense and defense.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:39 amI don’t know what’s in it for you, nk, but I love watching football (though I could never play a lick of it myself), and I love rooting for my Seahawks and Huskies.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/6/2023 @ 11:11 amI’m also one of those weirdos who loves watching golf, although I haven’t watched a minute of the PGA after they announced their merger with the Saudi Sportwashers.
There’s a lot at stake for the players too-reputation, bonuses, future earnings, etc. who are on championship teams. Nobody cares about a pitcher, hitter, striker, or quarterback on a team that has subpar record. They don’t get the respect or big bucks that champions receive.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 11:14 amWhat’s in a professional football game for me?
nk (0de5e0) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:20 am
I agree. College football is where it’s at.
Rivalries, school bands and songs, student sections, cheerleaders with real boobs.
norcal (31b5f6) — 10/6/2023 @ 11:29 am“I’d like to see the NFL return to the days when players played both sides of the ball-offense and defense.”
Now there’s wishcasting!! I understand the point…and personally I think in time something will need to give with the NFL or else the speed and ferocity of the game will make it less survivable….but with the modern style of play, substitutions and specialty packages would make it tough to require playing both ways. The Players Union would also have none of it….as it would also likely bring more injuries (yes, play might be slower, but fatigue will lead to more injuries) and fewer roster spots. Fans too want to see the best players at specialized positions…not a linebacker playing tight end…or a star pass rusher trying to play offensive guard.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/6/2023 @ 11:44 amThis land in Southern California and Arizona was probably not the best investment for agriculture, although perhaps more reliable (Saudis are also doing tis in nearby countries) They may have wanted a lot of land close together.
There’s a reason U.S. agribusiness didn’t do this. Maybe it’s that that land doesn’t truly have a reliable source of water.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 11:48 amSomeone wrote an Op-ed in the NYT about people having grown distrustful of institutions.
I think the problem is that many people have trust in people they should not trust or trust to e reliable.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 12:21 pmIt’s called nostalgia.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 12:30 pmGarry Kasparov:
I wouldn’t be so certain that that will be enough – conversely, Russia might give up, or attempt to give up, before losing all of Crimea.
I think the best chances are Russia losing territory, and on course to lose more, or more of its army, quickly.
Where does Kasparov get the idea that Biden hopes to make a deal with Putin?? Biden thinks Putin must go, but he is afraid of what will happen if Putin is afraid of that.
Biden is one of those people who regrets it.
He not only regrets invading Iraq in 2003; he thinks we stayed too long in Afghanistan!
Not for Biden.
Scholz may think so, but not Biden. But he’s afraid to say that Putin must go.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 12:37 pmThe paragraph in italics are my comments.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 12:48 pm*.5. I didn’t know what all these acronyms stood for and I looked this up
https://www.midtronics.com/blog/what-is-the-battery-differences-in-ev-hev-phev
EV is electric vehicle of course, and…
Electric Vehicles are also known as BEVs.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 12:51 pmRip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 12:44 pm
There is no majority. The Republican Party is basically two parties and one of them is against further aid to Ukraine. Even if that is not so, you get a choice between two bad sides.
People elect individual members of Congress, not unbreakable coalitions.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 12:54 pmThe Republicans talk about the Democratic position on crime, but they don’t campaign hard on it in the only place where it matters: state legislatures. In New York things were OK until the Republicans lost control of the State Senate (which, in the end, they’d maintained through a coalition.)
Governor Andrew Cuomo caved in on helping the Democratic Party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/nyregion/new-york-state-senate-democrats.html
The biggest thing the Democrats did with their new majority after the 2018 elections is pass a lot of pro-crime legislation.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:02 pmWhatever. There still will not (and should not) be a coalition with Democrats. The Republicans would have to give up too much, like on taxes, impeachment, immigration, etc.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:05 pmhttps://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/ny-state-of-politics/2022/05/06/analysis–cuomo-s-early-alliance-with-senate-republicans-returns-in-governor-s-race
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:07 pmThere is a majority of 221 Republicans. The fact they are split on Ukraine is a problem they need to resolve, without any interference from Democrats.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:10 pm32. Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:05 pm
They can’t pass any of their legislation anyway.
But some want to try to force Democrats to pass legislation they gag on.
The only thing they can do is shut down government and hope the people find their position more palatable than that of the Democrats. And there still won’t be a majority for anything after that.
What they need is a coalition with some Democrats, like happened in the New York State Senate.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:12 pmLOL! Any Republican representative that cooperates with the Democrats will get primaried. Brilliant career move.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:15 pmRip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:10 pm
We don’t get good legislation that way. According to the constitution we are not really supposed to elect puppets – The founders were against factions.
In Parliamentary systems that work that way, they always hold another election.
You are asking for an almost unanimous consensus. It would not be enough even to have 96% because the dissenters can always get rid of the Speaker.
The factions are not free to reassemble. They could be tolerted tht way. I suppose a way out could be if some Democrats joined the Republican Party
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:24 pmRip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:15 pm
Depends where.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:25 pmNew York Daily News editorial headlined Not Wall Considered in the printed paper:
https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/06/bidens-pointless-plan-to-build-more-border-wall
There seems to be different claims about who called attention to this reversal. It was quickly used by Republican leaning sources to claim that Biden admitted he was wrong – they are right – the crisis got so bad they had to do it – but it is also argued the Dems spun it out to the press.
They’re talking about at least 10-15 years ago.
That was the argument as to why there are supposed to be 11 million – Mexicans (then) used to cross back and forth, now (2010 or whatever, they stay)
The death rate isn’t high enough for that.
So now they have a better, more accurate estimate. It’s only somewhat over 50% who are U.S. citizens. Of course there’s also permanent residents and people ostensibly engaged in legal trade.
As money goes, it’s probably not all that much even though the federal debt is now becoming amuch bigger problem due to higher interest rates.
Professional criminals.
Politics and spin. And maybe because he can at least help some unions.
.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:41 pm“GYM” jordan, scalise cancel fox debate.
asset (1718d2) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:48 pm@38 where wouldn’t they?
asset (1718d2) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:50 pmhttps://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-dog-commander-sent-off-white-house-biting-incidents-2023-10?op=1
There aren’t bad dogs, only bad owners. and that Biden’s dogs keep biting people says the way they are being treated by him
NJRob (49d70e) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:50 pmThere were two news stories this morning One about a protest in Staten Island where the protesters are trying to annoy the people being placed there (they thought they won but an injunction was stayed)
The other involving people being kicked out of a shelter in Queens. Some men had jobs nearby or families. They are still in the system bt reassigned to scattered places.
I think that has to do with a more general problem that’s been going on without getting any attention for a long time.. You occasionally hear of people being relocated to shelter and children moved far from school.
https://www.esperanzacontigo.org/en/publication/121/how-does-homelessness-affect-a-childs-education
I think the explanation as to be that they come up with a new contract allowing more crowding ad then move the earlier residents out, thinking they will get less complainst s that way.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:55 pmasset (1718d2) — 10/6/2023 @ 1:50 pm
Many places.
in places they’d get primaries but win.
Any place with open primaries and big Republican parties.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:01 pmI think that’s the second dog who was sent away.
No, the third:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/05/biden-commander-dog-bites-removed
The Wash Post isn’t clear on why one of the earlier two dogs was sent away.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:07 pmLOL! The first American political parties appeared in 1792, only four years after the ratification of the Constitution; and founded by Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:08 pmComedy Gold! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
What specific policy concessions should House Republicans make to entice Democrats to vote for a Republican Speaker, or to enter into a “grand bargain”?
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:13 pmOnly among House Republicans, because they have a governing majority.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:17 pmThis assumes that the Republicans need the Democrats more than vice versa. Only six Republicans are needed to vote for Jeffries as speaker; but I think the Democrats are enjoying their schadenfreude for now.
I doubt any Republicans would vote for Jeffries anyway. Political suicide.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:25 pmhttps://www.newsweek.com/2023/10/13/exclusive-fbi-targets-trump-followers-2024-election-nears-1831836.html
FBI targets millions of Republicans and no doubt illegally surveils them. Our very own Stasi.
NJRob (49d70e) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:26 pmhttps://www.foxnews.com/media/hillary-clinton-floats-formal-deprogramming-trump-supporters-suggests-gop-base-bigots
And Hillary declares, with the support of many, that Republicans must he deprogrammed. Are the Communist camps next? Mao or Soviet?
NJRob (49d70e) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:28 pmBiden has had dog problem since his first days as Obama’s Vice-President. He has a penchant for Alsatian Wolf Dogs (renamed German Shepherds for marketing purposes), who are already an overbred, aggressive, and territorial breed and his demonstrate every one of those traits. They may not be bad dogs to accompany a prison guard on his nightly patrol or to keep a prisoner at bay but they are definitely not office pets.
nk (3bde75) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:32 pmVoters elected a Republican majority to represent them in the House
Balderdash. Voters chose a single representative in their district. They did not vote for any of the other 434 members (or shouldn’t have). Further, they chose from two polar opposites even though they might well have preferred the middle road.
Some of them did not even get that choice, as their district was gerrymandered and there was only one candidate running, even in the primary.
A better criticism is the lack of a similar offer from Chuck Schumer, so any “bipartisan” bill goes to a partisan Senate.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:08 pmAll of the above vehicles will require maintenance for their batteries, also called energy storage systems….
Not really. I drove a 2008 Ford Escape hybrid for 15 years and while the engine needed periodic maintenance, the battery system never did. I think there’s some cooling fluid in my new hybrid, but otherwise I see nothing in the maintenance schedule.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:11 pmThe Republicans would have to give up too much, like on taxes, impeachment, immigration
1) There is no point to the current impeachment, unless :counting coup” and “owning the Dems” is your idea of governance.
2) ONLY bipartisan legislation can finally deal with the immigration problem. The current position is like treating metastatic cancer by arguing about it.
3) There are corrections to taxes that make sense. Restoring the SALT deduction up to $50K or $100K, while increasing the top rate to 39.6% (which will happen anyway by default), reduces taxes paid by anyone not in the top bracket (and some who are), while giving the Democrats a small win with people who really don’t care all that much about their marginal rate.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:18 pmOk, voters in 221 congressional districts (whether or not were unopposed) elected Republican representatives to represent them in Congress, which ended up constituting a majority to govern.
It still up to the Republicans to govern by themselves, without any interference from the Democrats.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:20 pmAny Republican representative that cooperates with the Democrats will get primaried. Brilliant career move
So what? Ryan was repeatedly primaried and repeatedly won those primaries 70-30. Defeating a centrist Republican in a primary will almost surely mean that a Democrat is elected in a centrist district. And that Democrat will assuredly cooperate with the other Democrats.
This is one of the reasons people think the whackjob wing of the GOP is crazy. Also, they’re whackjobs.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:24 pmIt still up to the Republicans to govern by themselves, without any interference from the Democrats.
And so we continue to be unable to pass anything of import. All positions are frozen.
Now, I know that your idea of a good politician is one who is immutable in his positions, regardless of any information or need that develops, but me, I think that’s utter lunacy.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:26 pmDo you think:
a) Democrats should provide votes to elect a new Republican Speaker, and/or enter into a “grand coalition” ;
b) ShyRepublicans provide any concessions to entice Democrats to do so; and
c) Specifically, what should those concessions be?
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:27 pmShyRepublicans=Should Republicans
Rip Murdock (840fa1) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:28 pmTalk to the House Majority leadership. It’s their problem, and they have the responsibility (and power) to fix it. The Democrats don’t have the power to do anything.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:32 pm@50 If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. At least that is what the government have been telling me for the last 60 years. So now you got a problem with government infiltration and agent provocateurs when its done to your side? There was a guy named paster niemoller who had something to say on the subject you should look it up. Oh and buy the way welcome to the club!
asset (a230b5) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:35 pmLOL! It was McCarthy who held the “immutable position” of not dealing with Democrats to save his speakership. He couldn’t (or wouldn’t) make a deal.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:37 pm@59 A. NO! Obama tried that and what did it get him? My friend sammy thinks republicans could get away with it with out losing their primary. I don’t Almost all districts are to gerrymandered and most are closed primaries.
asset (a230b5) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:41 pm“Cooperating” Republicans would probably come from marginal districts that voted for Biden (like in NY) who didn’t win their elections 70-30. For example, Mike Lawler who represents the NY 27th District, beat Sean Patrick Maloney 49.4-48.5.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 3:49 pmMAGAWorld doesn’t look that far ahead.
Rip Murdock (e869cc) — 10/6/2023 @ 4:42 pmnk – It’s interesting that Biden hasn’t learned from his experience with dogs — or how successful GHWB was with “Millie”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millie_(dog)
(“Most United States presidents have kept pets while in office, or pets have been part of their families.[1] Only James K. Polk, Andrew Johnson, and Donald Trump did not have any presidential pets while in office.[2] However, Johnson did take care of some mice he found in his bedroom.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_pets )
Jim Miller (f497eb) — 10/6/2023 @ 4:56 pm“Cooperating” Republicans would probably come from marginal districts that voted for Biden (like in NY) who didn’t win their elections 70-30
I said primaries. But you knew that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 5:00 pmMAGAWorld doesn’t look that far ahead.
Neither do you, it seems.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 5:01 pmSimone Biles wins 6th world overall championship.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/6/2023 @ 5:02 pmAs you noted in the same post referencing the result of primaries (aka the general election)you wrote:
So if a “cooperating” Republican is primaried by a MAGA candidate (and loses to MAGAWorld), you are correct the result will be a Democratic win.
So I don’t expect any Republicans, certainly not those in marginal seats, to support a “grand bargain” the Democrats. And certainly not any conservative Republicans. It’s a dead idea.
Rip Murdock (e869cc) — 10/6/2023 @ 5:32 pmI watched Ms. Biles in action. She is just phenomenal.
Dana (932d71) — 10/6/2023 @ 5:40 pmOh, gee, the Saudis might have to grow their alfalfa someplace where it rains and take the same risk as most American farmers who might get rain on their crop at the wrong time. How sad.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/6/2023 @ 5:41 pmOn one of the ESPNs tonight they are airing a doc about women sports reporters where Steve Garvey was cited as a key advocate for their allowance in the clubhouse. Self interest may have been at play, but he can spin this as defender if women participating in sport as women.
urbanleftbehind (d817e5) — 10/6/2023 @ 6:47 pmComedy Gold!:
RFK Jr.’s past is a target rich environment.
Rip Murdock (e869cc) — 10/6/2023 @ 7:01 pm
Rip Murdock (e869cc) — 10/6/2023 @ 7:15 pmI’ve always thought that Trump and Kennedy could be running mates. It would be a bipartisan ticket, and they have a lot in common. Both are conspiracy minded wannabe authoritarians.
Democrat Biden in 2020: “There will not be another foot of wall constructed during my administration.”
Democrat Biden now: “There is presently an acute and immediate need to construct physical barriers… to prevent unlawful entries into the United States.”
Democrat Gov Kathy Hochul in 2021: “As you know, the Statue of Liberty is inscribed. It says, give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free. You’re welcome with open arms and we’ll work to keep you safe… We’ll not only house you, but we’ll protect you.“
Democrat Hochul now: “We have to get the word out, that when you come to New York, you’re not going to have more hotel rooms, we don’t have capacity. So we have to also message properly that we’re at a limit – if you’re going to leave your country, go somewhere else.”
Democrat Gov Pritzker in 2021: “Throughout my governorship I’ve directed my administration to adopt policies that make Illinois a welcoming state for immigrants.”
Democrat Gov Pritzker now: “The federal government’s lack of intervention and coordination at the border has created an untenable situation for Illinois.”
Trump was the best president Democrat governors ever had.
lloyd (0a6508) — 10/6/2023 @ 8:02 pm@75Ask al gore and hillary clinton about people not voting for green party on election day.
asset (03f304) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:42 pmRFK is no threat to biden except as a protest vote in primary. An upset lefty is another matter. See@78
asset (03f304) — 10/6/2023 @ 10:45 pmhttps://twitter.com/hashtag/Breaking?src=hash
Hamas and the muslim terrorists have attacked Israel with thousands of rockets, slaughtered innocent civilians in the streets and in their homes. This is war.
How many millions that Biden and Obama sent to Iran and the fake palestinians funded these terrorist attacks?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/7/2023 @ 4:44 amThat whole place is Jed Clampett’s swamp.
nk (754399) — 10/7/2023 @ 6:05 amIsraeli arms quietly helped Azerbaijan retake Nagorno-Karabakh, to the dismay of region’s Armenians
How slow does a news day have to be to make 74-year old Steve Garvey relevant to anything? I do remember that he married a blonde with a voice like fingernails on a blackboard, but I could be thinking of someone else. What other remarkable thing has he done recently that I missed?
nk (b7a238) — 10/7/2023 @ 6:44 amPossible R CA U.S. Senate candidate, in a field where multiple Dems split the base in a jungle primary.
urbanleftbehind (d31136) — 10/7/2023 @ 6:59 amHe’s smarter than Hershel Walker, too!
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:09 amQuestion: If Jim Jordan says he will refuse to bring up any bill to send more aid to Ukraine, how is that not a deal-breaker for large numbers of Republicans?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:15 amSo, if Trump could be elected Speaker, why not Liz Cheney?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:18 amLOL! Try finding 218 Republican votes for her. She would get no more than 10.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:35 amQuestion: If Jim Jordan says he will refuse to bring up any bill to send more aid to Ukraine, how is that not a deal-breaker for large numbers of Republicans?
Name three. All the ones with any integrity are gone. The crapweasels who remain will be glad to have him relieve them of the dilemma of helping Ukraine or pleasing Trump.
nk (b7a238) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:36 amLOL! Try finding 218 Republican votes for her. She would get no more than 10.
She’d only need 10.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:46 amFor Dana:
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:50 amIf you are assume the Democrats would vote for her, I doubt it. They want total control as much as the Republicans; and would be seen as their puppet.
House speaker fantasy camp.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:53 amJust how far down the rabbit hole has the NM governor gone? Her (now enjoined) fun ban was only the tip of the iceberg. She is using state boards and commissions — often her recent appointments — top rule by decree is substantive areas.
Not only has her handpicked Environmental Improvement Board adopted the California timetable for electric vehicles, in a state where half the population lives in isolated communities, but now they are demanding widespread installation of EV chargers, through an unfunded mandate on businesses.
The Albuquerque Journal, a centrist newspaper, says this in an editoria;:
Unfunded EV charger mandates would be a buzzkill on NM businesses
And again, this is all being done by the governor, through puppet boards and commissions. The super-majority Democrat legislature has actually refused to pass a lot of this.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:56 am*gun ban, but fun ban would be fine, too.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:56 amIt would be good if the US Supreme Court stopped a lot of this administrative state BS by nationalizing the “major questions doctrine” under the Guarantee Clause.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:59 amHouse speaker fantasy camp.
It’s more likely than Trump becoming Speaker, and a better outcome. Other than “Trump”, she’s probably to the right of McCarthy and maybe Jim Jordan.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 8:01 amNeither Trump or Cheney are likely to become speaker. Most of the House members that would have supported Cheney either didn’t run for reelection or were defeated in 2022.
There may be other choices than Jordan or Scalise, but it won’t be anyone from the outside of the House. If the House Republicans picked a candidate outside of their members, they would be conceding they cannot lead themselves.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 8:12 amIf the House Republicans picked a candidate outside of their members, they would be conceding they cannot lead themselves.
And your point?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 8:32 amThat House Republicans should be able to find a candidate that can receive 218 votes in their caucus.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:14 amThat House Republicans should be able to find a candidate that can receive 218 votes in their caucus.
Operative word there is “should.”
We’ll see and LOL.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:24 amSo, is this the point where Israel decides that Gaza needs to be evacuated?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:25 amJust a reminder: There were celebrations in Gaza after the 9/11 attack.
Jim Miller (291f38) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:29 amRigging The Game
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:31 amThere were celebrations in Gaza after the 9/11 attack
There were celebrations in Minneapolis after the 9/11 attack.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:36 amhttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/latest-news-israel-attack-gaza-hamas-rocket-s3cjzfrpm
Biden and his supporters are puppets of Hamas and Iran. Blood on their hands.
NJRob (d350ea) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:53 amPerhaps this is the day that Israel does for the Iranian nuclear facilities. Of course, the Iranians would be expecting that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:58 amAt issue is a request made by more than 90 House Republicans on Friday to temporarily change the party’s internal rules for nominating a candidate for speaker.
It makes some sense to air their dirty laundry in private, but the Gang of 8 would still act out in public, because that’s their actual goal.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 10:00 amKick the Gang of Eight out of the Conference, bringing the House to 213-211-8. Then see who aligns with whom. Will the Squad have their own demands?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 10:03 amLOL!
Not only the House GOP caucus, but the entire GOP, is roadkill with maggots feeding off its rotting carcass.
And there’s no comfort to be had, for the flies that bred them are still swarming all over America.
nk (cd1796) — 10/7/2023 @ 10:10 amLOL!
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 10:11 amMarquette Law School National Poll 10/4/23
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 10:33 amRepublican 13 37 50
Independent 50 38 12
Democrat 89 10 1
And this is EXACTLY why a centrist 3rd candidate has a solid chance this cycle. The polarization of our politics is such that there is a huge vacuum in the center. Political niches of this sort are likely to be filled.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 10:51 am“The Israeli army warned Netanyahu for months that his push for government overhaul put Israel at great risk of a multi-front attack. He dismissed their warnings by accusing the military of “joining the left-wing protesters” against him. His ministers said army could go to hell.”
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:11 amWay to blame the victims, SamG.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:16 amBiden to speak: I wonder how many platitudes he can cram into 10 minutes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:25 amStill waiting for Biden. Probably needed some more meds.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:48 amAll platitudes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:52 amLLOL! Those numbers only refer to their opinions on Trump’s indictments, not anything else.
Rip Murdock (29f75d) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:57 am@113 that’s not blaming the victims, that’s blaming their leader for focusing on culture wars while ignoring the security of the state.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:59 amWhat did you expect Biden to say? “We begin bombing Tehran in five minutes”?
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:59 amIsrael doesn’t have the capability to attack and destroy Iranian nuclear facilities:
Source
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:06 pmMOP:
Same source as post 120.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:09 pmThey do have the Jericho family of ballistic missiles, however…
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:12 pmWhat did you expect Biden to say? “We begin bombing Tehran in five minutes”?
I was hoping for “began”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:15 pmYet another application for Project Thor. If only we had a way of putting large numbers of things in orbit.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:17 pm2003 proposed version of Project Thor (first suggested in the 1950s)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:21 pmReportedly, Hezbollah has 150,000 pockets hidden throughout Southern Lebanon. Were they to enter this conflict, the Israeli reaction to that threat is hard to gauge.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:39 pm*rockets. Perhaps in pockets, or maybe sockets.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:40 pmLOL! Hypothetical indeed.
Rip Murdock (29f75d) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:49 pmIt begs the question then if Iran is such a threat to Israel why the haven’t been used.
Nuclear Armageddon fantasy camp.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:53 pm
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 12:57 pmWhile we can place a large number of objects in orbit simultaneously, first the object needs to developed.
The problem with Thor has always been the difficulty of launching heavy metal objects into space, since until recently launches were incredibly expensive and infrequent. Falcon 9 can launch 50,000 lbs to LEO, which isn’t enough for the 2003 version (that’s about 200,000 lbs each), but a reduction in diameter to 0.5 meters would turn the trick. Reducing the length a bit would allow each Falcon 9 to be reused.
The problems that were obvious in the past are not so apparent now.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:00 pmOOOPs. 0.5 feet (6 inches), not 0.5 meters. Or maybe shorter and not as thin. Sadly tungsten is absolutely required and it’s heavy.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:03 pmExcept for cost, I’m sure.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:03 pmOn that Israeli intelligence failure: Here’s a stray thought: Perhaps one of the reasons for it was Edward Snowden’s theft of America’s secrets. I have been reading Edward Jay Epstein’s book on the theft and he concludes that Snowden definitely made us — and our friends and allies — more vulnerable to terorists by revealing many of our secrets.
Jim Miller (86614c) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:07 pmhttps://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/547346/how-america-lost-its-secrets-by-edward-jay-epstein/
Tungsten is hard to work with (it’s very hard, very heavy and doesn’t melt until over 6000 degrees F. OTOH, what you need to build is just a dumb stick with guide-fins.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:08 pm@129 they can ostensibly carry conventional warheads as well
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:09 pmcorrection: terrorists, of course. (I can spell OK, but I am a lousy typist.)
Jim Miller (86614c) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:10 pmThere’s more tungsten available in the world with the end of incandescent bulbs. The military has a lot of experience working with it for other uses (e.g. re-entry vehicles).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:11 pm@129 they can ostensibly carry conventional warheads as well
Not really very efficient. I expect that any attack on Iranian nuclear facilities will be done by the United States.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:12 pmOn that Israeli intelligence failure:
This is the kind of thing that required human assets, which they may not have in Hamas.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:14 pmA report in July discusses Israeli intelligence informing Netanyahu of security consequences arising from the judicial “reform” push is available at https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra13525790.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:15 pm@139 no disagreement there
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:15 pmPart of the Israeli problem was that it was Shabbat and observant Jews (common in the settlements) had all electronics turned off and could not be quickly warned.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:16 pmAnd a good thread on the $6bil of Iranian money from oil sales approved by the Trump admin by Jennifer Griffin of Fox News at https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1710735779834593355.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:17 pmThe judicial reform is the last thing on anyone’s mind in Israel today. And what the courts were doing “We don’t like your law, so we strike it down”) deserved the pushback they got.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:18 pmLOL! Not likely any time soon.
Rip Murdock (29f75d) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:28 pmI’m sure Joe Biden appreciates you running interference for him since he’s a state sponsor of terror.
NJRob (d350ea) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:35 pm@NJRob that’d be Trump that allowed Iran to sell that oil, which you’d know of you read through the thread.
Why’d Trump let Iran sell oil?
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:45 pmIf* not of
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/7/2023 @ 1:47 pmUnsurprisingly, the NY Times comments are all about “Well, what did you expect?” from the poor Palestinians.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 2:28 pmHamas-controlled Gaza is a terrorist state, the Iran theocratic regime is a terrorist state, and Putin’s Russia is a terrorist. Our foreign policy should be in accordance with their respective status.
This tweet about Noa is absolutely heartbreaking, but that’s what Hamas is about.
What do I mean about “our foreign policy”. On Israel-Palestine, it’s time for Hamas to be no more. End the terrorist organization. On Iran, stop sending them money and sanction the hell out of them. On Russia, keep Putin withdrawing from Ukrainian territory, which keeps him stuck in this quagmire of his own making.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/7/2023 @ 2:32 pmI expect Israel to enter into Gaza with 200,000 troops, tanks, etc, and raze large sections of Gaza City. If Hezbollah fires its 100,000 rockets, Israel may use a nuke to stop it.
This war will become existential if allowed to grow. To stop that, I expect shock & awe.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 2:46 pmI suspect Hamas deliberately targeted that peace festival.
Jim Miller (d2a9c8) — 10/7/2023 @ 2:46 pmhttps://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/10/07/cnn-analyst-the-real-problem-is-israels-response-you-know-n582972
CNN gives the pro-Hamas viewpoint and attacks Israel for declaring war.
NJRob (d350ea) — 10/7/2023 @ 2:50 pmI may instinctively want a 3rd party candidate…less for their potential for a historic upset (the infrastructure and party tribalism makes that a Herculean task)….but to add normal into the race. Again, by May I expect Trump to be a convicted felon facing more charges. If you have yet another voice beating that home, it may just register among the 50% that see no wrong and the chorus of fluffers or media enablers. Still, will a normal candidate peal off as many Democrats as disgusted Republicans? Would they show also show weakness with Biden even if they eventually choose to jump out leaving it mano a mano. Yes, we starve for normal, but I’m skeptical that normal will end up hurting Trump more than Biden. The bigger help would be Harris voluntarily stepping down…but that’s a longshot too. If we are left with Harris v. Trump, we might want that 3rd party option but it likely will not be enough.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/7/2023 @ 2:56 pmYes, we starve for normal, but I’m skeptical that normal will end up hurting Trump more than Biden.
Biden may have his own scandals by then. He’s a really weird guy and the way he grabs young women is creepy. The Hunter thing may come back to bite him on obstruction charges (is it really OK to influence the DoJ to help your son?) It may also come back to the substance of what Hunter was doing. Right now they have deceived, obfuscated and inveigled their way to a muddle of a case, but maybe there is something there. God knows Hunter was getting paid for something other than smoking crack.
Or maybe he just has a public mental meltdown, where it becomes obvious he should not be running the country, even to his party.
Personally, I’d prefer it if Trump dropped out and minded his increasingly fragile legal woes instead. His path now seems to be heading for poverty and imprisonment.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 3:07 pmWould either man pass an objective test of mental health?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 3:09 pmSO, when Biden said: “This is not a moment for any party hostile to Israel to exploit these attacks to seek advantage” what is he saying? Is this a warning that the US will take action if that happens? Or is it just wishcasting?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 3:16 pmYou’ve got RFK Jr. and Cornel West to choose from right now. And while Trump may be convicted of something by May, he can secure the nomination by March (and there is nothing that can him prevent from being nominated or running).
I can’t think of any third party candidate that can win 270 electoral votes.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 3:30 pmWaiting for Godot.
Rip Murdock (d917eb) — 10/7/2023 @ 3:48 pmhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/10/so-much-for-peace.php
This is what real modern day Nazis look like.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/7/2023 @ 5:43 pmKevin-
“SO, when Biden said: “This is not a moment for any party hostile to Israel to exploit these attacks to seek advantage” what is he saying? Is this a warning that the US will take action if that happens? Or is it just wishcasting?”
I think of this as the equivalent to John McCain and his “We are all Georgians now” or Michelle Obama’s #bringbackourgirls.
The Russians owe the Iranians for munitions and drones, so Iranian proxies in Lebanon and Syria are probably taking advantage as we speak. What is Biden going to do if these groups blow a few things up? Nothing. They are afraid of Israel, not Biden
steveg (47c506) — 10/7/2023 @ 5:45 pmNetanhayu was so busy sabotaging the israeli court system so he can continue cashing israeli govt. bottles for their deposits with out going to jail that he didn’t have time to watch what hamas was doing. Any of you think this will be cheaper then buying off Egypt to take over the gaza strip? I keep saying this is the cheaper solution and throw west bank hamas supporters over to gaza. Biden solidifies the jewish vote for 2024 since trump supports putin.
asset (7c642a) — 10/7/2023 @ 6:46 pm“And while Trump may be convicted of something by May, he can secure the nomination by March”
You say that as if the convention cannot pivot come July. Rewrite the rules. It was contemplated in 2016, but the problem was history had not yet spoken on Trump. The “people” in 2016 would never abide by a steal. In 2024, the narrative is different.
You may argue that peole are even more Trumpified. Well, until they’re not. Even if any conviction will go to appeal and even if Trump uses his status as de facto nominee to continue to battle against the politically-motivated prosecution and conviction, the mask will be off by July.
A conviction makes Trump radioactive for the general and though 20% of the GOP electorate will want to ride with Trump through fire, most will see that you just can’t win with him…and the danger to the DoJ of a wholesale usurpation is just too great. From May to July the drum beat of inevitable crash with down-ticket implications will grow in crescendo. And that follows 6 weeks of a case that will have awful optics. Trump’s vote counts will steadily errode for the 1,000 delegates awarded after Super Tuesday. His leaf may end up being slight.
There will be passionate debate about the consciences of pledged delegates and whether the GOP could nominate a convicted felon who might be facing even more awful news as the classified documents case pushes forward. We won’t detect everything crumbling until it does. It may all be driven by some of those early state voters wanting a do-over. It’s hard to imagine law-and-order voters not caring once the system has rendered its guilty verdict. Today’s polls can’t capture the emotion that a conviction portends…
AJ_Liberty (a3894a) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:52 pmHow’s the wall holding Rob?
AJ_Liberty (a3894a) — 10/7/2023 @ 7:55 pmSam Harris on the difference between Israel and her enemies:
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:03 pm@166 this argument is brought up every time and goes nowhere for the 60 years I have heard it. Not that its wrong ;but meaningless. I saw a cartoon with netanhayu and a group israeli children standing on a high wall looking down on arab children on the other side. Netanhayu say to the Israeli children some day this will be yours! IDF retired general on why Israel was overwhelmed on southern border. Netanhayu had us sent most of are non-reserve soldiers to west bank new settlements to protect his voters.
asset (7c642a) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:15 pmI can’t think of any third party candidate that can win 270 electoral votes.
No fringe candidate can, particularly not in a year of mainstream fringe candidates. Any sane candidates in the middle will have a solid chance. Don’t expect everyone to care about what Trump or Biden want.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:36 pmNetanhayu was so busy sabotaging the israeli court system
You can only say this from an extreme ignorance of what the Israeli Supreme Court was doing. They had become God of the Law, striking down anything they simply disagreed with, and on that basis. At least our courts attempt to tie their decisions to the Law. Not so in Israel.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:39 pm“And while Trump may be convicted of something by May, he can secure the nomination by March”
New rule: “No candidate may be placed into nomination who has been convicted of more than 3 felonies.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:40 pmI saw a cartoon
Try books without pictures.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/7/2023 @ 9:42 pm“How’s the wall holding Rob?”
What a thoughtless comment.
lloyd (89ef24) — 10/7/2023 @ 10:01 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/7/2023 @ 11:32 pmI don’t think a Republican convention dominated by Trump delegates and with the RNC leadership beholden to Trump would change the rules. For one thing, at a minimum MAGA voters would abandon the GOP and just not vote if that happens. Or some may resort to violence.
The number of delegates selected post-Super Tuesday will represent 19-26% of the total delegates, while up to 71% will be selected through ST. Trump also doesn’t need to win every primary contest, as long as he places in the top three he will some delegates.
The best thing is that Trump’s legal entanglements prove too much and he withdraws from the campaign. I think that is highly unlikely given his nature, but maybe you’re right and Republican voters come to their senses and suddenly start voting for one of the Lilliputians. But they better choose wisely, as there are no voting do-overs.
Of course, polls are only a snapshot in time. We will just need to wait and see what the polls show in the future.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 12:02 am@171 Must have hit home because you know the cartoon is true. @169 thats trump’s argument too. And he has been a crook as long as trump. In the 1990’s he threatened to bring down the israeli government if he was prosecuted for corruption. Why is bibi cashing in government water bottles for their deposits as he and his wife did and pocket the money. Hamas and hezbolah ( the only war israel lost! ) are waiting bibi.
asset (7c642a) — 10/8/2023 @ 12:22 amI’m not sure you’re internalizing the awfulness of a convicted felon…facing potential prison time and additional convictions… running for the chief law enforcement office. And with his foremost “policy” being to pardon himself and punish the system that dared to hold him to account.
This stark argument is remarkably not yet indelibly in front of the GOP electorate. You can blame the Lilliputians for that in part, but at some point events will overtake the zombie-moaning narratives of two-tiered justice and political witch hunt. Trump will be in court confronting charges that are no joke. Independents and moderates will no longer have the luxury of voting for a Trump economy over a Biden economy. This will quickly become a referendum on the rule of law and reality-based reasoning. Mathematically, Trump will not win.
Now Fox, OAN, and Newsmax will eschew objectivity for the more dramatic role of defense attorney…and will have a long line of guests ready to tell us not to believe our lying eyes. But even the most committed bettor knows when to fold ’em. There’s no squinting and seeing a “winner”. Trump’s a criminal and it will no longer be subjective or up for debate.
Controlling delegates is illusory. That presumes that the delegates do not want to win. At some point self interest will come front and center…and hate for the other will trump Trump. The viability of the GOP will be at stake. It can either have a reality-TV nominee or a chance at winning. It won’t be able to have both….
AJ_Liberty (a3894a) — 10/8/2023 @ 3:43 amI suspect the distinction between “convicted felon” and “civilly adjudicated sexual abuser and fraudster” is lost on most Trump voters. If the latter hasn’t already lit the fuse to immolate his candidacy, I doubt the former will.
But keep fighting the good fight. I’ll be rooting for you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/8/2023 @ 4:32 amI don’t think a Republican convention dominated by Trump delegates and with the RNC leadership beholden to Trump would change the rules. For one thing, at a minimum MAGA voters would abandon the GOP and just not vote if that happens. Or some may resort to violence.
Only 34% of GOP primary voters call themselves MAGA. Nominating a multiple felon and mesuggenah assh0le might keep them in the party, but would cause the other 66% to reconsider. Also, most independents would definitely vote for Biden over a multiply-convicted Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:42 amThe $6 billion was basically a ransom payment, which is bad enough, but the funds are still frozen, so they had nothing to with Hamas’ mass terror attack.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:43 amNow Fox, OAN, and Newsmax will eschew objectivity for the more dramatic role of defense attorney
Were Trump to be nominated, perhaps Fox would do that, but right now you can see them back away. OAN and Newsmax are Lilliputians, to coin a phrase, and are about as important as Trump Social.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:45 amWhy is bibi cashing in government water bottles for their deposits as he and his wife did and pocket the money.
Watch the upcoming Israel-Ukraine Assistance Act pass unanimously.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:46 amControlling delegates is illusory. That presumes that the delegates do not want to win
This. Delegates are usually businessmen or others involved in the political ecosystem. They want friends in high places who can bring them, or at least their community, the benefits that entails.
If I were a Republican involved in local politics, my number one fear would be a continued erosion of GOP power in the state and in Congress. Even in red states, TRUMP™ costs votes. As it stands, the Dems are going to win 30 seats in Congress in 2024 with Trump at the top of the ticket. Pretty much a wipeout of remaining GOP seats in blue states, and erosion in marginal seats in red states.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:51 amI’ve never been in favor of Trump becoming President (far from it) so there is nothing for me to internalize. All I’ve been saying is that there is no evidence at this time his voters see any of that as disqualifying. It’s his supporters that have failed at “internalizing the awfulness of a convicted felon.” They. Don’t. Care. MAGAWorld will not be convinced even when he starts losing, both in court and in the primaries, because Trump’s convinced them that an attack on him is an attack on them. And any convention delegates will feel the same way.
Trump’s poll numbers are what they are. It’s undeniable that he is extremely popular both personally and politically among Republican voters. He’s also viewed as the one most likely to beat Biden. So until those numbers change significantly, his support will not waiver. And the Lilliputians will stay where they are.
So far there is no evidence of a break between Trump and his voters. Until that happens, it is possible to have a convicted felon as the Republican nominee.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:51 amNot any time soon, since the House can’t vote on anything until there’s a new Speaker; and b) there are always opponents to aid in both parties to either country.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:56 am“I suspect the distinction between “convicted felon” and “civilly adjudicated sexual abuser and fraudster” is lost on most Trump voters.”
I agree that for many it comes down to “they’re just picking on him” and “why don’t they pursue Biden like that”. I get it…but people start voting in a few months. The immediacy effect starts to focus the attention span. Personally, I see the head-to-head polls as being overly generous to Trump and that those will start to illustrate weakness as we push into 2024. Again, independents and moderates are not as forgiving or nostaligic as MAGAites.
Also you have a cumulative effect: where there’s smoke there’s fire and the conclusion that it’s all just too much. People will struggle with should we try to elect a newly-minted felon? Do we want to burn down the DoJ for someone whose views about the 2020 election and classified documents are either deluded or congenitally ignorant…or maybe both?
Traction will depend on how Haley-DeSantis-Christie play this going into January, if right-wing news media starts to go wobbly, and whether Trump starts to lag Biden. The only thing worse than giving up on Trump is to lose to Biden again. Right now Haley looks strong in that respect. It’s a marathon not a sprint.
AJ_Liberty (a3894a) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:58 amWe are talking about delegates to the Republican convention, not the general election, but I’m sure you know that.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:00 amNot any time soon, since the House can’t vote on anything until there’s a new Speaker; and b) there are always opponents to aid in both parties to either country.
1) The House can do anything it wants by special order. Probably takes 2/3rds votes, but with that the temporary Speaker can get things done.
2) Generally the opponents of Ukraine are supporters of Israel, and vice-versa.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:07 amI’m just not as sanguine about the future as you are, until I see evidence of any changes. Haley, at best, is still 30 points behind Trump in NH and SC.
Let’s see what her fundraising numbers look like in about a week, particularly dollars raised for the primary campaign. While the DeSantis campaign said they raised $15M, only $5M can be used for the primary campaign. That will show what Haley’s true strength is.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:09 amWe are talking about delegates to the Republican convention, not the general election, but I’m sure you know that.
And I do. Mostly they are car dealers and real-estate brokers, with a smattering of local officials and party bosses. Sure, they pledged to Trump to get elected, but they can come to Jesus like everyone else. Removing the pledge requirements has been tried in the past (1976 and 1980, in challenges to the incumbant) and came close to winning. And it will be tried again, with a MUCH weaker “presumptive” nominee.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:11 amHaley, at best, is still 30 points behind Trump in NH and SC.
By the end of the year there will be 3 alternative candidates left (Haley, DeSantis and Christie), and all the poll numbers will change.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:13 am1) Do you have a source?
2) Which still means that the vote will not be unanimous. There are others (like Rand Paul) who oppose foreign aid on principle and others that that see Europe and the Middle East as “not in our backyard.”
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:15 amSo what? Based on current polling, that still total only 40-45% of Republican voters supporting someone other than Trump. It’s just fewer Lilliputians.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:20 amYou won’t see any Trump supporters suddenly gravitate to the Lilliputians.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:22 am1) Do you have a source?
There is, of course, discussion here, but the “Speaker Pro Tempore” was created after 9/11 to prevent the House from being powerless in a disaster. Most articles seem to concentrate on the upcoming Speaker election, but there is some discussion of what powers the temporary speaker has.
There are good arguments that he can function as Speaker now.
House Rules:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:27 amSo what? Based on current polling, that still total only 40-45% of Republican voters supporting someone other than Trump.
Based on current polling, most deny he will be convicted of any crime.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:29 amothers that that see Europe and the Middle East as “not in our backyard.”
Well, the MAGA cross-section between anti-Ukraine and anti-Israel is antisemite. Thankfully there are very few of those. Doesn’t have to be unanimous, as the House rules allow for the Speaker Pro Tem to act during the interregnum.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:32 amWhich is what you just stated a few minutes ago with absolute certainty………
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:37 amPlease quote where I said it had to be unanimous, or where I professed certainty. What I see is this, which is neither:
The House can do anything it wants by special order. Probably takes 2/3rds votes, but with that the temporary Speaker can get things done.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:44 amOK, this then:
Watch the upcoming Israel-Ukraine Assistance Act pass unanimously.
This has nothing to do with what powers the Speaker Pro Tem has, and “unanimously” in this context is perhaps hyperbole, but not by much. 420-11 in the House, 98-2 in the Senate.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:46 amThe powers Speaker Pro Tempore (which existed before 9/11, but whose office was strengthened) are at best untested, as your quote suggests.
So far the SPT has acted as Speaker by:
Number 3 is most important.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:08 amHillary is right that it’s a cult, but she’s wrong as to remedy.
She didn’t say involuntary deprogramming, she said “formal” deprogramming which, to me, has no meaning but sounds a little menacing. I mean, what’s the difference between formal and informal deprogramming?
And it is a cult given Trump’s 40-point lead despite all his legal culpability.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:08 amSaid without qualification:
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:11 amIf it’s the Kevin M trifecta, what happens to Indian Beavis?
urbanleftbehind (c6214e) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:12 amThis is very significant, in my view, because unlike the recess authority, it’s hard to see how this is related the election of a new Speaker
It’s an administrative matter, at least as far as Pelosi is concerned. Her office is for the previous speaker, and she is no longer the previous speaker.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:20 amHe reportedly announced that he would not be referring bills or taking up legislation until the election of the Speaker is conducted.
He can change his opinion as circumstances warrant. That he does not exercise power does not mean he does not have it. I would view him at this point as the “chairman” of a legislative body, able to rule, but subject to being overruled by a simple majority.
Now, maybe the Gang of Eight and the Democrats will block anything he does, but I’d find it hard to believe that the Democrats would unanimously block aid to Ukraine or Israel.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:25 amWhich wall?
Need to know if you were being anti-Semitic or anti-American.
NJRob (df0f89) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:40 amMy question is this: What’s in it for Hamas? Why would they think it’s in their interests to murder and kidnap hundreds of civilians?
My theory is that Hamas is hoping for such a devastating reaction by the Israelis that the Middle East would turn against Israel, thus blowing up the impending deal with KSA and blowing up the Abraham Accords. What this means is that Israel should not violate the rules of war and international law. Even legitimate strikes will get criticized by militant Islamist partisans and their simpaticos, but as long as Hamas is targeted, should be okay.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:47 amJust a reminder that CodePink isn’t anti-war, they’re anti-American and, by extension, anti-Israel.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:50 amMy question is this: What’s in it for Hamas?
Iran keeps giving them money. What’s in it for Iran? The deal with KSA blows up, of course, plus reduced opposition to Iranian behavior. Israeli reaction to this is going to be severe — there are factions there which dream of a Greater Israel with all the Arabs “moved” out. This could happen with Gaza now, and that would help Iran’s case for nukes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:54 amJust a reminder that CodePink isn’t anti-war, they’re anti-American and, by extension, anti-Israel.
Anti-Ukraine, too. For the children.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:56 amIf it’s the Kevin M trifecta, what happens to Indian Beavis?
This is too cunning to be understood.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:59 amI easily can see Republicans (the Gang of Eight and many more) opposing aid to Ukraine, that’s almost a no-brainer.
I easily can see The Squad blocking aid to Israel-another no-brainer.
Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 10:22 amJim Jordan opposes aid to Ukraine.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 10:23 amFIFY
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 10:28 amI’d find it hard to believe that the Democrats Republicans would unanimously block vote for aid to Ukraine………..
Perhaps, but totally unrelated to my comment.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 10:52 amJim Jordan opposes aid to Ukraine.
For this reason he will not be elected Speaker. Far more than 5 Republicans will refuse.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 10:52 amI easily can see Republicans (the Gang of Eight and many more) opposing aid to Ukraine, that’s almost a no-brainer.
If it is attached to Israeli aid?
Why do you distort entire threads to make points you know are non sequiturs?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 10:54 amA joint aid package for Israel and Ukraine is purely speculative, as no such legislation exists. I expect the aid to Israel to be a priority once the House leadership race is decided; aid to Ukraine will be much harder to pass.
The last time the House passed a Ukraine aid package (H.R.5692 – Ukraine Security Assistance and Oversight Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2024) on September 28th, the Republicans voted 101-117 for passage, so it was the Democrats (voting 210-0) that passed the bill. This shows there is a majority of Republicans that do not support aid to Ukraine.
I would expect at some point a few pro-Ukraine Republicans could be convinced to support a compromise candidate who doesn’t support Ukraine. Polling also shows American people are getting tired of supporting military aid to Ukraine.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 11:35 amAs I’ve said before, it’s the responsibility of the Republican majority to provide the votes for the Speaker. I don’t see why that is so hard.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 11:46 amI’m pretty certain that aid to Ukraine won’t be a deciding factor for Republicans voting for Speaker.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 11:53 amAs I’ve said before, it’s the responsibility of the Republican majority to provide the votes for the Speaker. I don’t see why that is so hard.
Because it is stupid. The GOP’s only path to lasting majority is towards the center, not the fringe.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 12:22 pmI’m pretty certain that aid to Ukraine won’t be a deciding factor for Republicans voting for Speaker.
Source for this certainty?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 12:23 pmIsrael has declared war officially on Hamas.
Hamas has said their attack was supported by Iran.
Will Israel declare war on Iran?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 12:24 pmThe Hamas attack supported by Iran may have been in cooperation with Russia.
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 12:57 pmThe Russians benefit significantly if US is distracted by a war in Israel that requires $$ aid and re-arming. Israel is going to burn tonnage of precision weapons, including precision artillery munitions which will put the Israeli needs in competition with Ukraine who also needs tonnage of precision artillery munitions as well. In the US hierarchy of “arsenal of democracy” military relationships, Israel is way way ahead of Ukraine. Russian, China and Iran would benefit from learning how many regional conflicts the US can supply and it would be in their interest to kick off another brushfire
The belief that public opinion in their districts in favor of Ukraine does not exceed concerns over crime, immigration, inflation, or other domestic issues.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 1:14 pmLOL! And fight a two (or three)-front war? If Israel declares war against Iran, then you can expect ballistic missiles raining down onto Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem.
Israeli can’t reach Iran directly, they would need either aerial refueling from the USAF, or overfly hostile countries:
Both Qatar and Saudi Arabia have issued statements in support of Hamas, so overflying the Arabian Peninsula is probably not an option.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 1:29 pmAnd Israel doesn’t have any strategic bombers, so the USAF would need to send in the B-2s and B-52s. Dumb idea.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 1:36 pmIt’s a stupidity of their own making. No Democrat is going to vote for any Republican speaker candidate, unless that Republican promises concessions to the Democrats. That Republican candidate would then receive only a minority of Republican votes.
Republicans will need to find their compromise within their own conference.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 1:46 pmAnd Israel doesn’t have any strategic bombers, so the USAF would need to send in the B-2s and B-52s. Dumb idea.
Israel can obliterate Iran in an afternoon, all by itself.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 1:52 pmThe leaders of Hamas live in Qatar, so Qatari support is no shocker
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:13 pmBetter question: Will I Israel (at some point) negotiate with Hamas for the release of their hostages?
Probably yes.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:15 pmLOLI! If true, why haven’t they done so before?
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:17 pmThe Saudis will be duplicitous and play both sides, but they hate and fear Iran. The Turks were typically blunt in their support of Palestine. They don’t fear Iran, but they don’t trust them either.
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:21 pmI think if they had to choose, Saudi Arabia would support attacks on Iran before attacks on Gaza
Since Saudi Arabia is on record blaming Israel for Hama’s attacks on Israel, I really doubt they would switch and support attacks on Gaza.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:30 pmAssuming most of which here is true, you are correct that important centers in Iran could be destroyed by Israel.
It begs the question why Israel hasn’t done anything about Iran’s support for Hamas.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:36 pmRip
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:38 pmI’d guess that Israel has had to operate under some restraints when it comes to attacks on Iran. Iran would probably lash out at US interests in Iraq, Syria, and Persian Gulf if it was going through the worlds worst half day and the US military would be upset to not get a heads up, even though there is no way the US military should be trusted with that information.
The US military would enthusiastically destroy some Iranian infrastructure if attacked, but would rather not be attacked, dragged into a conflict due to American equipment destroyed and American lives lost.
Rip
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:50 pmWasn’t saying the Saudi’s would support Israeli attacks on Hamas in Gaza in any way. The best Israel will get from the Saudi’s on Gaza would be on record words followed by inaction. I don’t think the Saudi’s would stand in the way of an Israeli attack on Iran by denying airspace. The Saudi’s could say they were not aware of the incursion, the Israeli stealth and Electronic counter measures must have blinded their systems
“on record critical words toward Israel followed by inaction”
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:52 pmRip
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:55 pmA nuclear response from Israel now would be a gross miscalculation.
Israel could hurt Iran pretty bad using conventional weapons
I was following up on Kevin M’s comment here.
Nuclear weapons would be needed to destroy Iran’s underground nuclear facilities.
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 3:25 pmJust saw some people driving around Kirkland in a pickup with US and Israeli flags on it, with a young woman urging support for Israel.
Jim Miller (e96cbf) — 10/8/2023 @ 3:56 pmAnn Frank was born in 1929, almost 100 years ago, yet there are still people in this world who will target and kill women and children simply because they are Jews.
DRJ (f2c6b8) — 10/8/2023 @ 4:20 pmBetter question: Will I Israel (at some point) negotiate with Hamas for the release of their hostages?
Dear Hamas: We have 10,000 of your fighters here, and we are going to shoot one per minute. Please release out hostages.
Sincerely,
The Wrath of God
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 4:36 pmNuclear weapons would be needed to destroy Iran’s underground nuclear facilities.
Indeed. Israel has declined to build conventional delivery systems that could hit bunkers in Iran. They can hit surface targets conventionally, with a bit of effort, but for dealing with Iranian nukes they’ve pretty much decided to fight fire with fire.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 4:39 pmIt’s not clear to me what Israel would do if Iran tested a nuke.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 4:41 pmAt this point, Israel has its hands full with Hamas. I doubt they want to get in a wider war with Iran, and even Hezbollah would put them to a test. Hezbollah raining 150,000 missiles on Tel Aviv would be unacceptable in the extreme, and I think they’d react with a nuke or 3 to stop the bombardment. I think Hezbollah knows that.
If that threshold was crossed, the US would get involved. We talk about Ukraine vs Taiwan, but Israel is our first love.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 4:45 pmRip
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:02 pmAnd I guess I was talking unclearly about the previous and present conflict(s) when I said nuclear weapon use by Israel *in the past* or *in the current* would be a miscalculation (due to escalation above and beyond). I agree with both of you that Iran has infrastructure relating to nuclear weapon development that is probably untouchable with conventional weapons, but I also think that Israel can hurt Iran badly conventionally (and I don’t think the Saudi’s would deny airspace, they would deny that they gave Israel the airspace). That said, direct action by Iran conventional munitions in retaliation could really hurt Israel as well. The series of escalations would be purgative at first, but also very problematic in that it could, maybe would spiral quickly out of control
Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks (WSJ free)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:07 pmAn unserious response to a serious question. Israel has negotiated with Hamas in the past, but should they do so again, or should the hostages be considered “casualties of war”?
Rip Murdock (3961a9) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:35 pmWhat Iran did to Israel is no different than Afghanistan did to us on 9/11.
Time to see who supports whom
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:35 pmhttps://twitter.com/GLNoronha/status/1711128665243722088?
Keep making excuses for Biden.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:39 pmAn unserious response to a serious question. Israel has negotiated with Hamas in the past, but should they do so again, or should the hostages be considered “casualties of war”?
Israel is going to occupy Gaza and sort everyone out into Hamas and not-Hamas. I think they hope that the hostages survive to that point, at which point they’ll be able to negotiate. If the hostages have been killed, then things take a different path. You have to realize that Benjamin Netanyahu is not inclined to mercy here and may not give a flying frack what people say about his actions.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:46 pmThe plots started in August, the same month when Biden’s $6 billion ransom payment was announced.
True: The money had nothing to do with paying for these attacks.
Also true: The deal would have been scuttled had these attacks happened first.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:48 pmBlaming Biden for this attack is like blaming Queen Victoria for Little Big Horn.
nk (6df182) — 10/8/2023 @ 6:28 pmWow-what a lapse in Israeli security if you know that for certain.
Rip Murdock (63bba3) — 10/8/2023 @ 6:43 pmBS Kevin. Biden’s weakness and support of Iran is a hige reason for these terroristic attacks.
Biden like Obama supports the #1 state sponsor of terrorism, Iran.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/8/2023 @ 6:44 pmhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/10/jaccuse-2.php
A reminder how Biden has gotten in bed with these terrorists.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/8/2023 @ 6:48 pmI’ll put you down as the hostages being “casualties of war.”
Rip Murdock (63bba3) — 10/8/2023 @ 6:51 pmCaptain of the ship is responsible for it at all times. Biden wanted the job
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 6:55 pmI will say that a lot is made of the Israeli intelligence failure, but Biden’s CIA didn’t do so well either.
So I guess I can say that Biden is leadership responsible for the US intelligence failure and the magnitude of surprise.
The US voter is also responsible because we elected someone who is always going to be asleep at the wheel and is oblivious to what is being delegated.
We are all responsible for that in a sense because we allowed ourselves to be in a spot where the choice was either Trump or a befuddled old puppet
I see that Russian hacker group, Killnet has told Israel that they will be cyberattacked to support Hamas due to Israeli support of Ukraine (?)
I’m sure Putin will get right on it and put a stop to it
steveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 7:23 pmIsraeli intelligence is the primary source for the CIA when it comes to Gaza.
And IIRC Trump provided info on Israeli intelligence to Russia – I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia passed that right along to Hamas.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/8/2023 @ 8:02 pm@243 hamas we should be so lucky. Kevin I like you :but please understand real politick. I don’t like to criticize other posters.
asset (750e12) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:13 pm@252 Hamas wants nothing more then Israeli invasion. Street fighting house by house is a lot a fun. See: Falujah and lebanon. Also defensive weapons have overcome the advantage of offensive weapons for close in fighting. Israel left invading lebanon with their tail between their legs because of the heavily casulties. the first war Israel lost!
asset (750e12) — 10/8/2023 @ 9:22 pmTrue about the Israeli and American failure to ferret out their plot, but another way to see it is that Hamas (and their Iranian sponsors) had exceptional operational security to pull off a surprise attack like this.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/8/2023 @ 10:35 pmTo me, it only affirms that the Iranians were involved in this plot, and it further affirms that Israel isn’t just at war with Hamas, and they shouldn’t be limited to strikes in Gaza when there are legitimate targets to be hit in Iran.
The Iranian terrorist state that is helping Hamas’ terrorist attacks against Israel is also helping the Russian terrorist state in its terrorist attacks against Ukraine.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/8/2023 @ 11:05 pmIt’s all of a piece, which is why the Republicans who support Israel’s right to exist and aid to same should also be supporting Ukraine’s right to exist and related aid for their self-defense.
This is why a hyperpartisan hack like Jim Jordan should not be Speaker.
@264 CIA depends on Israel for tactical intelligence on gaza. CIA does strategic intelligence on ME and Iran. Paul why do you end with legitimate targets in Iran? Do you really thank Iran will say thank you very much may I have another? You should end with what their response will be. and its cost to U.S. gulf states, Iraq and Israel. Probably others too!
asset (750e12) — 10/8/2023 @ 11:12 pmUnless Iran has a nuke, asset, we shouldn’t worry about what their response would be. They’re a terrorist state that is long overdue for a strike where it hurts.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/8/2023 @ 11:23 pm@267 “we”? The pentagon disagrees with you as do most others who know what would happen. During world war II people who didn’t have to pick up a gun and hit the beach talked about starting a second front now! As for gaza house to house fighting is not fun. Ask some one who came back from fallujah in the iraq war. Tunnels and booby traps (IED) are not fun either.
asset (750e12) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:28 amThese people may not be as bad as the Trump cult yet, but they’re giving them a good run for their money. As soon as the danger of Trump returning to power is off the table, I really do hope the sensible left and sensible right find a way to offload their lunatic fringes and return our governing polity to a semblance of sanity.
Yes, I do believe in unicorns and hope everyone gets a pretty pony.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:05 am#241 Turns out that there were two small, but loud and competing demonstrations in Kirkland yesterday. That much I got from TV news reports.
(I wasn’t expecting that, orI would have stayed to cover them.)
Jim Miller (fda39b) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:59 amOcasio-Cortez’s and the squad’s founding group the Democrat Socialists show they are anti-Israel and anti-American as they celebrate Hamas.
https://www.jns.org/democratic-socialists-of-america-holds-pro-palestine-rally-in-new-york-city/
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:02 amHow many terrorists has Biden let through our open borders?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:19 amNJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:02 am
It’s been known for some time that they are linked – the worst so faar was astatement in 2022 that DECLARED THAT ALL ISRAELIS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED SETTLERS – which means that they are targets for being killed – but this shows how important this alliance is to the DSA. At least they did not outright endorse what Hamas did, and called for a ceasefire, but some woman brought a swastika, positioned on her cell phone screen, held up to the camera in a picture which was put today on the front page of the New York Post.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:29 amNJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:19 am
I expect nne, or no active one, since terrorist groups would risk operational security in doing that – they are just people on a list, and, as of now, the cartels are probably terrified of being linked to terrorism – that may change in te event of a war with Mexico.
And the people complaining about this are not serious, because if any terrorists attempt to cross into the United States, and are intercepted, they sold not be turned back, but arrested and interrogated and taken to Guantanamo. Not be thrown back into the sea.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:35 amSammy,
your dedication to open borders and the destruction of our society shows no bounds.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:39 am@253
Also, also true: anyone who keeps harping on the fact that Biden’s ransom payment has zero influence fails to understand the concept of fungibility of international cash.
Iran now knows that those frozen cash will be unfrozen at some point, so immediate plans can be adjusted.
whembly (1fe49d) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:11 amFrom now on there must be no talk of peace, or any settlement of the Arab-Israeli dispute. Iran, acting mainly through Hamas and Hezbollah has a veto and will exercise it. Any talks must be held in absolute secrecy and the result sprung on the world by surprise with no expectation of further progress in the year or two following it, and must be geared to created a military and political alliance between |Israel and an Arab state it is negotiating with. Nothing else will last. There can only be quiescent enemies and military allies and nothing in between.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:28 amAt least until the mullahs are gone from power in Iran and Hamas and Hezbollah as well.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:29 amIsrael was asleep. And probably penetrated. I don’t believe it was by cyber means, and doubt the U.S. handed inadvertently over information about what |Israel knew except for the fact that the Biden Administration kept talking with Iran , and did not urge Saudi Arabia to speed things up with Israel, meant that their plans were still a secret.
And Hamas, I think, has different leadership than what Israel knows and the people who planned this probably left Gaza before.
This murderous attack was undoubtedly caused by the coming improvement in Israeli relations with Saudi Arabia, which was taking too long. Iran could do nothing about the Abraham accords
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:33 ambecause it was sprung on them too suddenly, but they had enough time to upset this applecart – which wasn’t such a great idea in the first place.
Why waste the time? Just treat everyone in Gaza as Hamas.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:33 amAugust may be when some Iranians got got more actively involved, but planning goes back at least six months and probably at least a year.
For the past couple of weeks, according to Nahum Barnea, cited by Thomas Friedman in the NYT, Hamas conducted practice exercises (which were ignored, just like the Egyptian mobilizations in 1973 were explained away) Barnea considers this a worse day in military terms than the blunders which led to the Yom Kippur war.
The people in charge of Israel\s defense probably paid no attention because they expected Hamas to use tunnels, and they had achieved a foolproof system for detecting and destroying tunnels going into Israel – and indeed it was foolproof. In fact no tunnels were used here although lots of other methods to get into Israel were used by Hamas.
They also thought Hamas was deterred but maybe Islamic Jihad was not. and concentrated on disarming Islamic Jihad (a more directly controlled by Iran terror group.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:33 amhis.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:33 am
That won’t fly, since it is not true.
Much simpler: Just cut off the water and electricity from Gaza, maybe gradually ratcheting it up. Demand that Gaza be turned over to some other party that will disarm iut of rockets at least, and refuse to allow safe conduct ot of thr Hamas and other terrorist leadership unless amnd until they release all the hostages.\
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:45 amCutting off power and water is against international law, but other methods are both less humane and less effective and Hamas has disregarded all laws of war. Some even wore Israeli uniforms to get people at the music festival to flee in their direction and be massacred. Some 260 people were killed there – and some shot in the legs to facilitate capture.
47. Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/6/2023 @ 2:13 pm
Appropriations and the size of the deficit.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:47 amKevin M (ed969f) — 10/8/2023 @ 5:46 pm
|If he does he should not invade, but simply gradually cut off the water and power and food.
It will cause no casualties to Israel. But it is more clearly in violation of the laws of war, while bombing and an invasion are not, being an example of an exercise in self defense
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:51 amTe danger of an Israeli invasion is that even if it succeeds then Hezbollah could open up a second front – at least with missiles. Iron Dome was somewhat overwelmed this time already.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:53 amNew York newspapers have better spies than the CIA – and they operate in the open so they are not technically spies.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 7:58 amTrue about the Israeli and American failure to ferret out their plot, but another way to see is..
My take-away is that the technical means the US relies upon utterly failed here, and Hamas managed to avoid human assets from learning of the plot. Both of these things should be worrisome going forward, but especially the first one as it may not be easily corrected.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:00 am242. DRJ (f2c6b8) — 10/8/2023 @ 4:20 pm
And many people who won’t admit that that is what is happening
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:02 amThis is why a hyperpartisan hack like Jim Jordan should not be Speaker.
And why he cannot get 217 votes. Scalise has a better chance.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:03 amRip Murdock @200.
2) He ordered former Speaker Pelosi and former Majority Leader Hoyer to vacate their Capitol hideaway space, under the Speaker’s Rule I, Clause 3 authority to control the House wing of the Capitol.| This was eitheer done by the House |Administration Committee, or by Speaker Kevin McCarthy, “on his way out the door.”
All committees continued functioning unlike the situation at the start of a Congress, where the committees needed to be set up.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:08 amAsk some one who came back from fallujah in the iraq war.
Plenty of Marines did come back. Not so much the other guys. Go tell one of those Marines that they lost in Fallujah.
ISIS did recover, of course, but that had more to do with the feckless pandering of the Obama administration than anything. One of the (few) things Trump did right was give the US military a green light on ISIS.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:10 amI really do hope the sensible left and sensible right find a way to offload their lunatic fringes and return our governing polity to a semblance of sanity.
Why would the Left change after you vote for them?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:13 amIran now knows that those frozen cash will be unfrozen at some point, so immediate plans can be adjusted.
Or maybe not. If that cash is still under US control, expect Biden — a man of forked tongue in the best of times — to renege now.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:17 amCredit where due: The Washington Post actually published an article on a Republican candidate, who is not the Loser.
(I hope the reporters who wrote this article, Hannah Knowles and Dylan Wells, aren’t fired for this lapse — by “mainstream” media standards.)
Jim Miller (fda39b) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:17 amLong regarded by many as an afterthought in the Republican race, Haley is gaining some steam in New Hampshire
The question remains on whether Trump will leave the field and/or have his support collapse, in time for any of this to matter.
I think that either Trump is the nominee or Haley is. Trump is obviously the leader here, but he’s got more baggage than Jacob Marley. Can he drag it all to the finish line?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:21 amWhy waste the time? Just treat everyone in Gaza as Hamas.
Well, that would be the default, at least with adult men. I would think that the Israelis can spot jihadis easier than most.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:23 am@290
I really don’t have any issue with Jordan being Speaker, other than he’s not going to be effective.
Scalise, if nothing else, would be amazing as the Democrats would have to deal with a public figure who survived an assassination attempt of a deranged leftist… as a visible reminder that rhetorics can be deadly.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:27 amCutting off power and water is against international law,
They have now announced a full siege, cutting off water, power, food and fuel. They will not relent while hostages remain, at a minimum.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/09/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:29 amI wonder what Israel will do if Egypt tries to resupply Gaza from the south. My betting is that Egypt won’t. I’m also expecting a naval blockade of Gaza ports.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:32 amhe nusic festival is described as a rave, defined in Wikipedia as “a dance party at a warehouse, club, or other public or private venue, typically featuring performances by DJs playing electronic dance music.”
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:33 amI really don’t have any issue with Jordan being Speaker, other than he’s not going to be effective.
Refusing to bring up any bill to fund Ukraine is a showstopper for about half the Republican Conference. Ans, as we have seen, it only takes 5 votes to block a Speaker. To get elected, Jordan would have to publicly support funds for Ukraine and he won’t.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:34 amThe music festival was open air, closer to Woodstock than the Roxy.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:36 amWe could experience the same scale of attack here in the US even if our borders were entirely closed: we have our own religious fanatics, and very dense cities where their attacks can lead to a very large body count.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:41 amThey might have killed them but said Israeli bombs did while in reality no prisoners were at that site. Hamas has plenty of prisoners to spare. They might have killed some at the start. At first I eard they had 163, but later I heard Hamas was claiming 130. Ad bodies were treated without respect to say the least. They might have been killed in Gaza.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:41 amThe silliest news thread in the MSM about the Hamas attack regards Biden’s diplomacy in the region and how it affects the Saudi deal. Denial is the first stage of grief.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:42 amWe could experience the same scale of attack here in the US even if our borders were entirely closed: we have our own religious fanatics, and very dense cities where their attacks can lead to a very large body count.
Our response in Afghanistan, while ultimately futile, established that there was a high price to pay for attacking the US homeland. “Don’t make us come over there!” is a credible threat.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:45 amSam G (8d2ed1) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:41 am
\Yes, yes, but there are more such [people outside the country than inside.\
The 9/11 attackers brought mostly only themseles but at least the pilots were trained. A person unable to smuggle in weapons or explosives can do the ost damage wiith a car (making their own bomb is dangerous or will result in a dud – Terry Nichols had to go to the Philippines, probably to get trained by Ramsey Youssef. He wasn’t able to build the Oklahoma bomb until then.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:48 amHollow words from Rand Paul, who voted against aid for Iron Dome, but it’s not as bad as Ms. Tlaib, who blamed Israel for their “apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance,” with not a word of condemnation for Hamas’ mass-murdering terrorist assault.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:50 amKevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:45 am .
It’s still working in Afghanistan
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:51 amKevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 8:34 am
Jordan may say he wants to pass a regular defense bill, so they would still have hope.
There is a bill awaiting floor action that would authorize aid to Ukraine.
That’s part of the reason Kevin McCarthy was ready to take it out of the continuing resolution, but he got deposed before that could happen.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:03 amJordan could also defuse this by suggesting (even privately) that the Speaker Pro Tem bring a bill to authorize aid to both Israel and Ukraine before the new Speaker is chosen.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:20 amHow so? While less than half of the Republican Conference supported last Ukraine funding package, did they declare they wouldn’t vote for a Speaker candidate who didn’t support Ukraine? Ukraine is their priority issue over everything else?
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:22 amFirst paragraph in post 313 (“I really don’t have any issue with Jordan being Speaker……..) should have been separately blockquoted.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:26 amUkraine, Shmukraine. Jordan has Trump’s endorsement.
nk (982c93) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:27 amYou people insist on assigning agency to bits of bread soaking in milk as a snack for the baby.
nk (982c93) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:29 amWhatever the heck that means.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:33 amMilksops.
nk (982c93) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:34 amIt is not that I am unaware that I am often addressing an intellectual vacuum. It is simply that I avoid condescension. (That means talking down to people.)
nk (982c93) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:41 amRip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:33 am
I think it means that President Joe Biden has no more brains than bits of bread soaking in milk.
Actually the biggest thing is that he never seems to know who he is going to speak to or where he is supposed to go next.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:14 amHow so? While less than half of the Republican Conference supported last Ukraine funding package, did they declare they wouldn’t vote for a Speaker candidate who didn’t support Ukraine? Ukraine is their priority issue over everything else?
No. But they also didn’t declare they would oppose any speaker who wanted open borders, but I bet you they would. It is no secret that many Republicans support Ukraine and see it as non-negotiable. Including several presidential candidates.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:18 amUkraine, Shmukraine. Jordan has Trump’s endorsement.
And your point? Is that good or bad? Trump also opposes Ukraine aid. There are registered Republicans on this site alone who won’t vote for Trump, or any of his minions, just for that reason.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:20 amComedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:21 amFor Jordan, Trump’s endorsement is a good thing.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:23 amI doubt Ukraine funding is a priority among their constituents.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:28 amLike you’re doing now?
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:31 amI think that was established on April 18, 1942.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:38 amI doubt Ukraine funding is a priority among their constituents.
I doubt most of their constituents give a rat’s ass about abortion. But a pro-abortion speaker candidate would have a tough time getting elected.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:54 amFor Jordan, Trump’s endorsement is a good thing.
For Jordan, Putin’s endorsement would be a good thing.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:55 amCalifornia’s second place US Senate candidate Katie Porter and third place candidate Barbara Lee had similar reactions:
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:56 amHere’s Nikki Haley on the appeasers:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=7297860946910680
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 10:59 amLOL! I doubt Putin’s endorsement would have the same impact as Trump’s. Putin isn’t a kingmaker in the Republican Party.
Rip Murdock (10a192) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:00 amI don’t see this as pro-Hamas. If anything it’s critical of the Biden administration.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:01 amPutin isn’t a kingmaker in the Republican Party.
Yet Trump is indeed King.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:02 amIt’s blaming America for the attacks. Given that Porter is running as a left wing Democrat, I doubt she had Biden in mind.
Rip Murdock (10a192) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:05 amAt the moment, Trump is the leading Republican presidential contender and has far more influence on Republican politics than Putin.
Saying “ For Jordan, Putin’s endorsement would be a good thing” is a non-sequitur.
Rip Murdock (10a192) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:10 amUnless you can explain why that is true.
Rip Murdock (10a192) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:11 am@307 and @308: homegrown radicalization is a huge threat, one that too many dismiss.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:15 amRobert F. Kennedy Jr. Shifts to Independent Presidential Bid
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:24 amWhile I see RFKJ as a fringe candidate — kind of a LP/Green fusion — the prosepect of Trump v Biden is going to encourage a lot of this.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:26 amRFKJr will be destroyed by both the Biden and Trump campaigns. His past comments and positions are a target rich environment.
Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:31 amDoes America want to elect a conspiracy-minded, wannabe authoritarian President?
Oh, wait…….
Rip Murdock (10a192) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:41 amThe GOP needs to first decide what it wants to accomplish over the next year or so. With the Democrats controlling the Senate and Presidency and there only being a narrow fractious majority in the House, this will largely be the theater of the small. Nothing substantive will move forward on budgeting since it requires compromise on big contentious issues that seem unlikely in this toxic political environment.
Immigration? There could be some progress as both sides want to look tough going into 2024, but it’s more likely that they see more advantage is painting the other side as weak or extreme. So comprehensive immigration reform won’t happen.
Ukraine? Half the GOP is skeptical. Ramaswamy explains that Ukraine might not be worth the investment. Opposing Russian adventurism and savagery? Sending a message to China about our resolve? Standing with our NATO allies? The GOP is genuinely conflicted…or maybe just confused. When the leading candidate doesn’t get it, we probably oughtn’t be surprised that nativist populism builds.
Oversight! Of course we need our Joe/Hunter Biden investigation with the hopes of a ferreting out the smoking gun or at least maximizing the opportunity to let innuendo do its election magic: of course he’s corrupt and just as bad as Trump. But some are understandably anxious that such an investigation might backfire. Not because Hunter is sympathetic…he’s not…or Joe is above it all…he’s not and is guilty of at minimum ethical lapses, but because the evidence to this point has been uninspiring and that it looks like manufactured outrage.
So if we want maximum civic disruption….more drama with government shutdowns and Ukraine funding showdowns…then the caucus should go with Jordan. Scalise might be a bit more normal. Patrick McHenry keeping the job is probably more my speed….though I’m not sure I wish it upon him.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:43 am@342
Trump?
RFK?
Biden?
…??
Jesus wept…
whembly (5f7596) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:46 am@343
I dunno… I’m kinda digging Patrick McHenry.
His “slam” of the gavel was something else and his staffers was saying it was because he was pissed at Democrats for backing the 8 GOPers.
I always pegged him as someone who’d give Democrats the time of the day… but, here, he may be seeing “what time it is”.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:49 amI dunno… I’m kinda digging Patrick McHenry.
He does have that CNN chalkboard era Glenn Beck vibe.
urbanleftbehind (658f78) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:56 amLOL! If that is true, McHenry doesn’t know his congressional history. The minority party has never voted for a speaker of the majority party. It’s more likely he was mad at the”gang of eight.”
McCarthy didn’t want to negotiate with the Democrats (who certainly would have demanded concessions) to save his speakership, so the Democrats obliged.
If the roles were reversed, do you think the Republicans would have supported Pelosi?
Unlikely in the extreme.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 12:06 pmWith the bow tie it’s more like the 1950s.
Rip Murdock (10a192) — 10/9/2023 @ 12:09 pmI don’t see Biden as conspiracy-minded. Trump and RFKJr, on the other hand, are made for each other.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 12:17 pm“The minority party has never voted for a speaker of the majority party”
Could they have voted present? I’m no real fan of McCarthy…as he abides the worse tendencies of the GOP…but he will keep the government open and Ukraine funding flowing. Do the DEMs care about that? Maybe Scalise might also do those things without the partisan sniping… which elicits a big fat meh from me about the entire theatrical affair. What’s best for the country? The question doesn’t seem to come up any more. Normal people look away from the sausage making…and performative gotchas.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 12:20 pmSource?
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 12:22 pmThe Democrats could have voted “present”, but they also wanted McCarthy out. He apparently made and broke promises to them, and just before the continuing resolution was passed, McCarthy went on television to blame the Democrats for the government shutdown.
They also blame McCarthy for Trump’s political rehabilitation. Oh, and authorizing Biden’s impeachment (which would be non-negotiable with the right).
McCarthy provided no incentives for Democrats to vote for him or stay out of the fight. He wanted their votes to avoid a government shutdown (and undoubtedly pass appropriations bills) but not to be rewarded for their support. Nothing is ever done for free.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 12:40 pmHamas announces it will begin to EXECUTE hostages and post video evidence online for every Israeli airstrike as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu orders Israel’s Defence Forces to besiege Gaza
It’s the Daily Mail, but still …. civilian hostage taking and reprisals are war crimes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:16 pm“The minority party has never voted for a speaker of the majority party”
Source?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:17 pmMcCarthy provided no incentives for Democrats to vote for him or stay out of the fight.
That’s not entirely true. He gave them the shutdown delay that they wanted, to his great cost.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:21 pm@352, so the answer is, yes, they could have allowed the overwhelming majority of the GOP vote for the speaker that they preferred but they preferred to punish McCarthy and open up the possibility of dealing with someone even worse than McCarthy (Jordan). Again, was this for the best interest of the country?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:25 pmA possible precedent for Israel to follow: The siege of Beirut, 1982. Israel did not engage in house to house fighting in Beirut, but surrounded the city, and demanded that Yasir Arafat and the PLO leave. (one possible problem – they didn’t exile enough bad armed groups.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Beirut
The hostages complicates matters but the whole thing anyway could rely on the siege. There could be no bombing so long as no missiles are fired.
Sammy Finkelman (d1850a) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:33 pmApparently it wasn’t enough incentive for the Democrats to vote for McCarthy. I’m sure the Democrats wouldn’t have minded a shutdown, as it would demonstrate the inability of Republicans to govern.
LOL!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:35 pmRe: Elections for Speaker f the House: What about before 1913?
Sammy Finkelman (d1850a) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:36 pmThat’s not the point. The point is what in the best interest of the party. Democrats don’t see any difference who is speaker, unless it’s their leader.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:39 pm@356 if one’s POV is that MAGA is the biggest threat to the US’s interests; that McCarthy has empowered MAGA; that McCarthy fundamentally cannot be trusted; then yes, removing him makes logical sense.
It’s not the Democrat’s responsibility to save the GOP from themselves.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:41 pm@349
Listen, Jack… the border is fine, the Afghanistan withdrawal was the best I can do, I can waive a hand to discharge school loans, MAGA people are Nazis, the economy is the best ever and you’ll get two, TWO scoops of icecream! /POTUS… probably.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:49 pmAgain, was this for the best interest of the country?
Not a priority on either side.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:55 pmHere is a CRS Report that includes all Speakers beginning in 1789. You will notice that many speakers didn’t have a party affiliation or were members of historical parties.
1913 was when the House membership was capped at 435.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:55 pmContact the authors of each report with any other questions.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:57 pmThe stakes in 2024:
1. The GOP will likely retake the Senate — the Dems have too many red state seats to defend. Only running incompetent Trumpists can save the Dems.
2. The GOP can win the WH with a sane candidate.
3. The GOP can hold the House iff they have a sane platform/presidential candidate.
But the GOP will probably run Trump and his ilk and lose all of them.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 1:59 pmAgain, Biden is neither a conspiracy theorist or wannabe authoritarian, while Trump and RFKJr are both.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:00 pmJordan is a shoo-in, Ukraine or no Ukraine. The milksops will vote the way Trump wants them to.
nk (8afd43) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:07 pmI’ve already posted the link.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:07 pmTwice.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:08 pmNathaniel P Banks was Speaker of the House in the 34th Congress. He was a member of a minority party (The American or “Know Nothing” Party), while the pick-up “party” called the Oppostion was a coalition of Whigs, former Whigs, Free Soilers and the new Republicans. He was elected after a months-long speakership battle. The 34th Congress party split was 100 “Oppositionists”, 83 Democrats, and 51 Americans (Know Nothing). So, here we have a minority party speaker elected with votes from the majority party.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:14 pm@367
By all means, keep ignoring the Biden administration then.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:19 pmIn the last 113 years, after the House capped its membership at 435 seats, and the modern system of party leadership was introduced, only one Democratic congressman crossed party lines (James Traficant) to vote for a Republican speaker (Dennis Hastert). Traficant was then stripped of his committee assignments.
Source, p. 4
I doubt is either the Republicans or Democrats would change this history.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:40 pmFlashback December 2022: Bursting the ‘unity speaker’ bubble
While this was written about McCarthy’s speaker election , it applies equally to the current speaker fight.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 2:55 pm@283 Netanhayu says you didn’t go far enough he is cutting off food to the children of gaza. Who is killing children now?
asset (2dba43) — 10/9/2023 @ 3:48 pm@357 try lebanon 2005 the war Israel lost. Also half of Israel loathes the bottle deposit crook netanhayu just as the democrats and trump republicans loathe each other.
asset (2dba43) — 10/9/2023 @ 3:55 pmWill Hurd drops out of 2024 Republican presidential race and backs Nikki Haley
FWIW.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 4:54 pm@283 Netanhayu says you didn’t go far enough he is cutting off food to the children of gaza. Who is killing children now?
The ones holding them hostage. Hamas is holding all of Gaza hostage, and are widely hated for it. But go on with your moral equivalence. It’s telling.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 4:55 pmI’m glad you recognize antifa as the threat they are.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:14 pmAssertion without evidence and plenty of evidence to the contrary. See the manipulation of government against conservatives, see the suits against Elon Musk, etc.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:24 pmHe told them to leave.
Your support of terrorists is noted.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:25 pmWhen was he in the race?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:26 pmLOL!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🥲🥲
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:32 pmRip,
trolling the world for all to see.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:36 pmWill Hurd’s best moment, maybe the best moment of the campaign of anyone so far. I’d like to see other candidates be so forthright.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:38 pmhttps://www.dailywire.com/news/proud-of-what-has-occurred-scenes-from-inside-philadelphias-pro-hamas-rally
People who we should deport if we accept illegal aliens (after they are vetted and determined to deserve asylum. )
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:38 pmRob, you’ve obviously staked a side and not a position. Homegrown threats exist on both left and right – and if you were honest about it you’d simply acknowledge that as factual.
Re Netanyahu telling them to leave: where pray tell are they to go? The border with Egypt is closed. No other Arab nations will take them.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:39 pmLOL! Being called a troll by you is not an insult.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:43 pmWill Hurd’s best moment,
Oh, I dunno, Rip. Staying out of prison is a better reason for running for President than most of the narcissistic, pompous, self-absorbed, self-centered, and selfish megalomaniacs who have ever run for the office have had.
If only it were true in Trump’s case, it would be praise. Faint praise, but still a compliment.
nk (3ec966) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:46 pmSo, if we found ourselves in a shooting war in the Middle East, who would we want in charge?
* Joe Biden
* Kamala Harris
* Donald Trump
* Ron DeSantis
* Vivek Ramswamy
* Tim Scott
* Mike Pence
* Chris Christie
* Nikki Haley
I see at most 3 here who have the wit, and only one I’d feel confident in.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 5:53 pmNews item: FBI Says It Sees No Specific Threat From Hamas to the U.S.
Should we be worried?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:03 pmA humble suggestion: An Israeli raid on Qom to collect up a few dozen mullahs for trade purposes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:07 pmIf any of the current Republican candidates made a similar statement to Republican voters, I would be more inclined to vote one of them. Sadly, I don’t expect them to do so.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:08 pmI’ll take those on the list that are sober-minded; substance over performative behavior; and with the foreign policy acumen/skills to form a coalition of allies so we’re not alone in said shooting war.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:20 pmSo antifa is a homegrown threat?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:25 pmPossibly, though less likely than right-wing/religious radicals.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:35 pmI think Israel has its hands full right now.
Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:45 pmThanks for saying what I expected SamG.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:46 pmYes, I take the threat of right wing religious extremists – and the long dehumanization campaign against liberals – as a serious threat. I’d hope everyone would: sadly, I know that too many do not because they believe they are on the same side as them.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:55 pm381 Leave? to where is a 2 year old child to leave too? Gaza is 2 miles wide and 25 miles long and its borders are closed. That is intellectually dishonest answer.
asset (cde900) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:56 pm@386 here is two we should deport if anyone would take them is tommy tupperville and matt gaetz.
asset (cde900) — 10/9/2023 @ 6:58 pmSamG projecting his own extremism on to “right wingers.”
Those scary conservative Christians. They might pray for you.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/9/2023 @ 9:14 pm@402 They might blow up an abortion centers too or shoot up a temple or black church.
asset (cde900) — 10/9/2023 @ 11:25 pmI see one and only one name that commands enough fear and loathing from most of the world that would immediately move the needle everywhere. You know the name.
The very reason he is loathed and feared in our own country is proof of his credible threat value. Every other name is preferred – even by our enemies. You wanna make our enemies happy? No one likes a nuke….
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/10/2023 @ 4:04 amKevin is correct that the innocents of Gaza are being held hostage, being used as human shields by Hamas. You say that no one will take them in which is cold-hearted of you to project. But say that you are right that no other country would take them in, what does that tell you about the Gazans? What does it tell you about the other countries? Are you taking in any refugees? What does that tell us about you?
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/10/2023 @ 4:10 am@405, didn’t the “innocents” of Gaza vote in Hamas, who then took to killing off their political rivals Fatah. The sane Hamas who senselessly just butchered, raped, and abducted hundreds of Israelis. I’m all for Christian charity, but what exactly is owed at this moment?
Israel left Gaza in 2005. The workability of a one-state or two-state solution has always been frustrated by muslim militant group’s insistence on destroying Israel. We see more of it today, enabled by the theocracy in Iran.
The Palestinians have to decide that they love their children and their children’s future more than they love their hate of Israel. It’s folly to think that some other nation can force this to happen…
As to @404, I’ll just continue to shake my head. There’s an irony to preach Christian charity while advocating for Trump. I’ll leave it there…
AJ_Liberty (909d33) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:43 amA note on Israelis cutting off water and electricity: They shouldn’t do it, and for the same reason that Russians shouldn’t be bombing Ukrainian electrical grids, because of the cost to civilians, and it breaches the rules of war.
I said earlier that Hamas needs to be destroyed, all the way down to the foot soldiers, but who to replace them? As craptastic as their leadership is, I think it needs to be those who run the West Bank, and put both territories under the same rule.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:08 amThat’s not a good enough reason to put a mentally unhinged malignant narcissist with subzero character and who undermined our democracy back in the Oval Office, IMO. Haley will do just fine.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:15 amI agree, AJ, that the Gazans aren’t “innocent”, because they initially voted Hamas into power, but most are still civilians. The challenge will be separating the militant Islamists from the non-combatants, but every one should be hunted down.
In the spirit of “a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic”, here’s the personal story of May Hayat, who could’ve easily been murdered with the other 260± who were slaughtered at that music festival, but miraculously escaped death.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:38 am@407
I think we need to accept the cold, hard realties of war.
Israel is literally at war with Hamas.
Hamas’ military need power/food/water.
Israel is under no obligation to feed their opponent.
There are times that you cannot win a war with just surgical assaults and precision bombs.
This is one of those times.
Palestinian has chosen their leaders.
Palestinian has chosen to remain there and fight.
…and there’s going to be a lot of ‘reapin’ and ‘sowin’.
For me, Israel needs to go all Romans. Salt Gaza and let it be a reminder in history that Israel is here to stay.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:53 amPlease keep in mind there was precisely one election in Gaza, 17 years ago, and Hamas was given a plurality not a majority. There has not been another election since, and Hamas represses dissent.
Average age in Gaza in 19.
SamG (4e6c22) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:56 amThat’s a poor excuse to commit war crimes, whembly. Like with Russia, Israel is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, which is a promise to minimize civilian casualties. Yes, Israel is “literally at war”, but there’s no reason for them to lower themselves to Hamas’ barbaric levels.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:06 amWould you have Israel kill the entire population of Gaza (2.4M)?
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:09 amUS Senators have very little influence on quality of life issues in their state. State and local governments are more likely to have an impact on those issues.
Rip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:23 am@411
And? Same could be said of Japan and German in WW2.
Anyone there can see there’s a lot of human shielding, kidnapping, outright rape and murdering, all under the auspexes of their political organization.
It’s palestinian who gives the Hamas political power. It’s also within palestinian’s power to overthrown these murderous monsters.
The fact they haven’t should tell you something.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:27 am@412
I want you to look at the scenes that these monsters perpetuated and really think what you’re asking.
Hamas are monsters.
They only understand power and death.
There’s no room for half-measures anymore.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:29 am@413
If that’s what it takes to eradicate Hamas, then yes.
Good news though. I don’t think Israel has to.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:30 amPaul, I agree with you that the power and water shouldn’t be turned off….and that indiscriminate bombing should be avoided. My suspicion is that most Palestinians do support Hamas and its radicalism. We don’t exactly see a lot of condemnation of the Hamas attacks coming out of Gaza…though I haven’t strained to find them. It’s more of the same.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:31 amYou guys tell me what, exactly should be done after reading the following:
https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1711697093151056355
https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1711718195025821976
Hamas has no place in this world, and every option is on the table.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:36 amYes, Hamas are monsters. A group that beheaded 40 babies deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth. But let’s keep it to Hamas, not a civilian populace of 2.3 million. The Carthage approach is not a 21st century solution, and Israel would pay a severe price if they went down that road.
BTW, whembly, Hamas was elected to power in 2006, and then violently took over in 2007, so we don’t know what the will of the people is. The territory is less free than Russia, which is saying something.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:48 amwhembly,
You need to consider carefully the consequences of committing war crimes in Gaza. You are literally talking about ethnic cleansing. How will Israel stand in the world after that? Will they still get arms from the US? Will Netanyahu be in danger of an involuntary trip to the Hague? Will this drive the internal politics of Isreal to the awful place of impossible division that we now endure?
I really don’t know how Isreal deals with this moment. Bulldozing Gaza and salting the earth? Maybe, but those people and their resentments will go someplace, unless you kill all of them. That des not strike me as anything you can call right, and I doubt it will improve Isreal’s security much at all, because Isreal’s security depends on friends.
Appalled (8ef096) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:02 amGaza needs to be dealt with like Dresden under the Nazis.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:18 am@421
No.
Israel is going to be methodical… they’re even communicating to Gazan when/where to move before they re-engage.
What other nation does that? Certainly not the US.
Israel will do what they need to do to survive, and having Hamas at their border is untenable, so all options are on the table.
Yes.
No.
Doubtful.
Bibi’s political “mortal” opponent has offered to work with Bibi in creating a government for the express purpose to address this.
Yes. The Gaza experiment is a failure. There’s no redemption.
The rest of the world must encourage, cajole and yes, even threaten nations like Egypt/Jordan/Syrian to take the Palestinians.
That includes massive foreign aids and the likes.
But Gaza need to be done, and the West Banks is possibly next depending on what they do in future.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:18 amAll the people dancing on the head of a pin: you know what will happen when Iran gets a nuke, right?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:19 amThere will never be a Palestinian state. Ever.
This is going to be a hard lesson, for even the Israelis.
Adjust accordingly.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:21 amWhembly. FYI, courtesy of Google:
This is what you are talking about.
Appalled (8ef096) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:23 amWhembly, NJRob, if you support killing millions of innocent people (including kids, babies, mothers, etc) because people who lived there killed thousands of innocents, and they did do because they felt that Israel killed their innocents, then it seems like you have a lot of philosophical similarities to Hamas.
Nate (200ff4) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:25 am@426
This is a war to end the Hamas.
So what does that look like?
I don’t know, but Hamas must cease to exist.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:27 am@427
Nate, I say this all the feelings I can must.
Go play in a busy highway with that.
I’m not advocating wanton killing of innocent people. Unlike the Hamas.
I’m advocating that Hamas must be destroyed, completely. If Palestinians cannot help themselve in hosting Hamas, or another terroristic political entity. The Gaza, itself, must be on the table.
The reason why they’re in this mess, is because of half-measures.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:31 amDon’t avert your eyes to this:
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:33 amhttps://twitter.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1711703980588388681
I take the threat of right wing religious extremists – and the long dehumanization campaign against liberals
Not very self-aware here.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:33 am> Palestinian has chosen their leaders.
> Palestinian has chosen to remain there and fight.
Neither of these statements is true in any meaningful sense. They have not the money to go elsewhere, and nowhere is letting them in in meaningful numbers.
The last election was before most Palestinians alive today were old enough to vote.
The people of Gaza are victims of Hamas, too, without the power to remove them or to leave.
aphrael (4543ab) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:35 amThe very reason he is loathed and feared in our own country
Fear and loathing are not strategies. Trump is probably better than Kamala Harris. Maybe. But he’s an idiot and a fool and an an incompetent one at that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:36 am@432
So, what you’re saying is that war is ugly.
Yes, I agree.
Now what?
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:40 amRip Murdock (e4cbbc) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:09 am
Daniel Pipes wrote yesterday in t he Wall Street Journal (it came out yesterday, and the stock markets were also open, although it was not a business day for the banks, and the Post Office and most schools were also closed) that the population of Gaza is 2 million, but he also wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/israels-opportunity-to-destroy-hamas-gaza-attacks-biden-5b942e18
(they emigrated both legally and illegally, some to Libya where they crossed the Mediterranean to Italy or even drowned, Voting with their feet, as Reagan used to say. Many semi-legal (first stage is legal0 are university graduates)
Here’s a link that the Pipes article gives to young men leaving Gaza
vhttps://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/the-mass-exodus-of-young-men-from-the-gaza-strip/ Their initial destination is Turkey, from where their intention is to continue to other countries, primarily European countries and Canada.
The issue recently made headlines after on September 9, 2023, there were violent clashes between hundreds of young Gazans and the security guards of a travel agency in Gaza City which had received a monopoly for issuing visas to Turkey. A number of people were injured and the company’s offices were damaged. As a result, issuing visas to Turkey was suspended and only renewed on September 17, 2023.
Apparently the exodus is increasing and the events at the travel agency’s offices was a manifestation of the growing demand for visas. For example, according to reports, in one week 18,000 applications for visas to Turkey were submitted and there was a waiting list of 83,000 to leave the Gaza Strip through the Rafah Crossing. In addition, Internet data showed a significant increase in searches for the word “emigration” by Palestinian surfers.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:40 amdidn’t the “innocents” of Gaza vote in Hamas, who then took to killing off their political rivals Fatah.
45-41%, at which point the winners starting killing off the losers and no elections have been held since. Even assuming the 2006 election was legit, the actions since give every Gazan cause to regret the outcome, no matter which way they voted.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:40 amLet’s suppose that Trump had started rounding up all the Democrat politicians and shooting them in 2017. Would this be the fault of his 60 million voters? Or would it be the fault of Trump and whomever was enabling his dictatorship?
It should be pointed out that quite a few players in the area found Hamas’ rule convenient for them, including Israel.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:43 amViden is scheduled to speak at 1 pm EDT today, The reason he put the lid on early yesterday was that he was being interviewed by the special prosecutor about classified documents. He has issued no statement on this since Sunday. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about Iran, about preventing the war from spreading, (probably vague threats or warnings) about bills in Congress and about Americans killed or taken hostage by Hamas.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:45 amI kinda feel like if the people the runs your government are cutting the heads off of Israeli babies and stacking their bodies, raping and kidnapping your neighbors…and there’s no collective outrage that your government condones?
Maybe you all don’t deserve a country of your own.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:45 am@437
Trump would face near universal condemnation, even from his own supporters.
Kevin, help a guy, where’s the condemnation by Gazans? Surely there must be some…
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:47 amIn the Gaza election, the only parties were armed groups I think, and Hamss ran against corruption, and perhaps many people didn’t They haven’t recovered Jerusalem like they said they wanted to do. Just gotten Gaza bombed. Especially those places not so friendly to them, where they like to store weapons,
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:52 amhttps://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/10/10/watch-pro-palestinian-protesters-chant-gas-the-jews-n2164887
Immigration for the win.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:52 amYour providing aid and comfort to the Nazis is noted.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:53 amA note on Israelis cutting off water and electricity: They shouldn’t do it, and for the same reason that Russians shouldn’t be bombing Ukrainian electrical grids, because of the cost to civilians, and it breaches the rules of war.
Give it a week and only Hamas cells will have fuel, electricity and heat. It will make targeting easier.
This is war, and unconventional war. Hamas is in violation of just about every article of the Geneva Convention, and so the “Rules of War” do not apply to them — they are all war criminals and have no rights.
They do not carry arms openly, they do not wear uniforms or other clear identification, they do not have a clear chain of command, they do not observe rules for prisoners of war. They take civilian hostages and threaten reprisal killings. They use their own civilians as human shields and place armaments within hospitals and schools.
There is not requirement to apply the “rules of War” to combatants that themselves do not. Israel would be entirely justified in executing all Hamas captives they find, so long as they can establish they are indeed Hamas.
Video explanation: https://youtu.be/v010HXpfFSA
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:55 amI can’t help but see the parallels.
Hamas “policy”, written in their charter, is the “destruction of Israel”. From the get-go, they’re on the side of a one-state solution, with that one state being Palestine, from the sea to the Jordan River. Going by their current ongoing mass-terror attack, they’re willing to commit horrendous crimes against humanity toward that end.
Putin’s “policy” is that Ukraine doesn’t exist because it’s actually Russia, which he made clear in his July 2021 speech, and despite Ukrainian protestations against being conquered by his sheethole country. Putin seeks a one-state solution, with that one state being Russia, and he’s willing to commit horrendous crimes against humanity toward that end.
Hamas has taken 100 or so Israelis hostage, places unknown. Putin has taken tens of thousands of children out of Ukraine, holding them hostage in Russia, places unknown.
Although not confirmed, it is likely that Hamas has taken Americans hostage. It is confirmed that Putin has taken Americans hostage, the latest being the WSJ reporter.
Terrorist state Iran is supplying weapons to Hamas for their jihad against Israel, and terrorist state Iran is supplying weapons to Russia for their cultural genocide against Ukraine.
Hamas fires its missiles and artillery at civilian targets. Russia fires missiles and artillery at civilian targets.
It’s all of a piece, not an either-or like that fool Josh Hawley is presenting (he should be “redirected” out of elective office). It’s in our national interests to weaken Putin by supporting Ukraine, and it’s in our national interests to destroy Hamas by supporting Israel’s fight against them.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:56 amIf the number od applications for visas to Turkey suddenly rose is September , maybe a lot of people knew something was coming, The training to cross the border probably couldn”t be kept conmpletely hidden from other people in Gaza. But infr=orming Israel is punishable by death. Anyway this is a unobtrusive indication that Israel missed.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:57 amUS Senators have very little influence on quality of life issues in their state. State and local governments are more likely to have an impact on those issues.
US Senators generally approve all federal appointments within their state and the Senate rarely confirms those they would block. The federal courts and agencies have a great deal of influence in a state.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:58 amNoted, your thumbs-up for mass war crimes, Rob. A good German goose-stepper couldn’t have expressed that better.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:59 amLike with Russia, Israel is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, which is a promise to minimize civilian casualties.
The Geneva Convention does not require a combatant to honor many of those rules when the other combatant does not. Taking civilian hostages and threatening reprisals, not to mention the intentional and retail murder of “enemy” civilians, all set Hamas outside the protections of the Rules of War.
Shorter: They are not soldiers, they are terrorists. They offer no quarter and deserve none.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:03 amGaza needs to be dealt with like Dresden under the Nazis.
No, but it does need to be dealt with like the Soviets dealt with Nazis.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:05 amGood news though. I don’t think Israel has to.
I don’t think that Israel can do so. Not only would it be a horrific crime, but it would lead to the destruction of the Israeli state as every other country in the world treated them as monsters.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:07 amSo you think firebombing Dresden was a war crime. Good to know you stand with the Nazis against civilization.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:07 amI agree that they’re not soldiers, Kevin, but the Geneva Conventions aren’t about the behavior of the other side, they’re about the behavior of the signatories, and we’re all signatories because we agreed that another Dresden-style fire-bombing, the kind of mass murder that Rob is rooting for, is a bad idea.
If captured, those unlawful combatants don’t qualify for POW status, only that they treated humanely while in confinement. They can be tried for their crimes in Israeli courts of law, and hopefully executed after conviction. Israel does have a death penalty, but it’s rarely used, in part because Israeli hostages held by Hamas would also receive a death penalty. Nevertheless, they should pay an ultimate price for their depraved acts.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:18 amI feel like this is a repeat of the Iraq War debates circa 2004-2005.
The Geneva Convention, which is a post-WWII agreement, would in fact make firebombing Dresden after said agreement a war crime.
Rob, learn how time works.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:20 amSo you think firebombing Dresden was a war crime. Good to know you stand with the Nazis against civilization.
The first bombing might not have been, although Dresden had no military installations. The claim that it was a rail center was true, but the rail center was not targeted. The bombing was indiscriminate “carpet bombing” and was an act of terror. Still, it was a war.
But the second bombing, 3 hours later, intended to catch rescue workers and survivors out in the open, was a war crime. As were the two further bombings over the next two days. It was inteded to kill as many civilians as possible.
The bombing was so destructive, and beyond the Nazis understanding of the Rules of War, that the Germans considered abandoning the Geneva Convention in its entirely. In Britain there was dissent, especially as everyone knew that — in February 1945 — that the bombing campaign no longer affected the outcome of the war.
There is a long discussion of the bombing, its aftermath and how it affected later wars over at Wikipedia
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:28 amYour response is a complete non-sequitur to my question.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:31 amLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:33 amDon’t give him any ideas.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:34 amAJ_Liberty (909d33) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:43 am
I’m talking about children, AJ.
You have it in your head that I am advocating Trump. You are mistaken. I am voting for whomever the Republicans nominate. If it turns out to be Trump that’s not on me.
felipe (eb9fd3) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:38 amYou just can’t help being that asshole, Rob.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:39 amDresden could’ve been done without incinerating 25,000 civilian souls, and it was a reason the Geneva Conventions came into being.
the Geneva Conventions aren’t about the behavior of the other side, they’re about the behavior of the signatories
Not so. From Wikipedia:
The Conventions apply to a signatory nation even if the opposing nation is not a signatory, but only if the opposing nation “accepts and applies the provisions” of the Conventions.
The provisions for combat with non-state actors are somewhat different, but Hamas is the elected and ruling faction in Gaza and should not be confused with a non-state actor.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:40 amit was a reason the Geneva Conventions came into being.
The Eastern Front, and Japan’s activities in China and the Philippines, were much bigger reasons.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:43 amMissed a tag:
the Geneva Conventions aren’t about the behavior of the other side, they’re about the behavior of the signatories
Not so. From Wikipedia:
The provisions for combat with non-state actors are somewhat different, but Hamas is the elected and ruling faction in Gaza and should not be confused with a non-state actor.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:44 amThe Geneva Conventions aren’t about total war. They are about feeling good for yourself and your superior morality. Israel is in a war for survival. They should look at all options including nukes.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:45 amAnd Nagasaki and Hiroshima could’ve been done without nukes, but with great loss of American life.
It’s total war. You either win or you die.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:46 amGaza is a terrorist state. Iran is a terrorist state. They aren’t covered by the Geneva Conventions either. Wipe them out.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:47 amFrom https://x.com/NirACohen77/status/1711447866726666597?s=20 (translation below):
“It’s half past nine in the evening now, two hours ago I came back from abroad. I’m already in uniform and armed, on my way south to the reserves. I’m going to fulfill my duties as a general officer of the brigade responsible for protecting the border with Jordan and Egypt. Like everyone else, I have no idea how long I will be recruited and what day will be born. As with all the countless times I served in the reserves, this time too, as long as I’m in uniform I won’t write my personal opinions here.
But just before I silence myself, I would like to write here some of my thoughts.
1. There is nothing in the world that can justify the massacre of hundreds of innocent people. The hundreds of drownings are subhumans of the lowest kind. The same goes for those who support and justify them.
2. Now is a time of war, the first thing right now is to protect the home, the country.
Let’s not get confused, this is not a “war without choice”, it could have been prevented, but now it is too late. Now there is no choice but to take up arms and defend the citizens of Israel.
3. I am going to defend my country from our enemies. Our enemies are murderous terrorist organizations controlled by Islamic extremists. The massacre of innocent Israelis must not be answered by the massacre of innocent Palestinians.
It is important to remember, the Palestinian people are not our enemy. Millions of Palestinians who live here with us between the sea and Jordan, are not our enemy. Just like most Israelis, so do most Palestinians, they just want to live their lives in peace and dignity.
The two peoples who live here, the Jewish people and the Palestinian people, have been held captive for decades by a violent religious minority. On both sides, a violent religious minority drags the conflict into appalling violence. Yes, I compare the leaders of Hamas with the leaders of religious Zionism. On both sides, an extreme religious view dictates violent behavior.
3. This war will end sooner or later. At the end, both nations will have to reckon with the leaders. We must wake up and not let the extremists rule here. The Palestinians and the Israelis will have to denounce the fundamentalists. The Israelis will have to oust Ben Gabir, Smotrich and their gang from power, and the Palestinians will have to oust the heads of Hamas from power.
4. At the moment of the greatest rupture in Israeli society, the truth is revealed. The true lovers of the country are revealed, those who do. In contrast, the nakedness of the wretched Twitter tiktok is exposed, a bunch of zeros who, apart from slandering and inciting, contribute nothing to the State of Israel. This is the hour of the doers, the defenders of Israel. At the end of the war we will come to account with the zeros, the heroes of the keyboard.
5. In the midst of the terrible pain and the enormous brokenness, I try to look for shards of hope. Shortly after the terrible Yom Kippur War, a peace agreement was signed between Israel and Egypt. We must realize that there is no greater security asset than peace. Even the strongest army cannot protect the country the way peace protects. The path of peace will forever be better than the path of war, the one we have been walking on for too long.
At the end of the war, after thousands of dead Israelis and Palestinians have been buried, after we have finished washing away the rivers of blood, we will have to understand that there is no choice but to follow the path of peace, that is where the real victory lies.
That’s it, now it’s quiet, I’m leaving cyberspace. I will soon arrive at the base and make my contribution to the defense of the citizens of the State of Israel. The torn heart with the families of the murdered and missing.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:53 amWe’ll meet here or over a cold beer at six after the war, we’ll do everything to make this the last war.”
Gaza will not be wiped off the face of the earth, despite the desire of some here. I would expect up to 10% of the population to be killed, but short of using nuclear weapons, Israel is not capable of killing 2.4M people. Even the Israeli population would blanch at that. Besides, using nuclear weapons in Gaza would expose Israelis to the fallout.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:56 amI also believe that Hamas would like to see a massive invasion by Israel, as a way to bog down the IDF in house to house fighting on their home ground. It’s going to be very bloody for both sides.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:03 amThe poor Rule of War Nazis would only be left with their approved gas chambers and ovens… 😢
BuDuh (4214e4) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:09 amJim Miller (d2a9c8) — 10/7/2023 @ 2:46 pm
No question about it, and I suspect they may have been involved in its planning somehow, although details were posted on the Internet. There were 22 sites attacked, The estimated death toll has now risen to 1,600. They were finding bodies in places as late as Monday..
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:10 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:31 am
I was only commenting on the population figure of 2,4 million you gave as the population of Gaza.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:15 amBiden speech again delayed a bit.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:16 amSince the Gazan government does not subscribe to, or apply, the Geneva Convention, Israel is bound only by its own codes of conduct and some generally accepted international laws.
These will prevent any wholesale killing of civilians and will probably protect captured combatants from summary execution, but their willingness to accept surrender may be minimal, especially where hostages have been held or killed.
Air strikes will be limited to known or suspected Hamas concentrations, or perhaps infrastructure, and may have collateral damage. But they won’t carpet bomb or target purely civilian locations.
Israel is sensitive to acts of mass killing. The fact that they are planning a ground invasion reflects their discomfort with an air war, and the difficulty of discriminating between combatants and civilians. This will cost many Israeli lives that would not be lost in a purely air war, so I give them some points for that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:18 amThe poor Rule of War Nazis would only be left with their approved gas chambers and ovens
Yeah, well, that they looked at differently. Both the US and the Nazis observed the Geneva Convention for the most part. The Russians and the Nazis did not. Except for a few negotiated surrenders, both sides shot prisoners as a rule.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:20 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:03 am
I don’t know about Hamas, but That should be true of Iran.
Iran probably accelerated this a bit so it probably not even in a nuclear war, but Israel cannot afford to have any iteration of this a few months or later from now but the Iranian nuclear program must be finished off or severely damaged before this is over,
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:23 amPresident Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris just recently finished a call they had with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:25 amStill waiting for President Biden to speak, as I predicted.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:26 amThe Japanese also did not observe the Geneva Conventions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:27 amThis iteration probably will not end in nuclear war, but the same thing cannot be said if there is a ceasefire.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:28 amBiden to speak soon.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:28 amWhich didn’t need a comment or clarification. Missing the forest from the trees.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:28 amIt needs be noted that intentional targeting of civilians was allowed under the Geneva Convention until 1949.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:30 amLOL! A ground war will produce just as many civilian deaths when they attack Gaza City with heavy armor. Either way a massive number of civilians will die, as will IDF soldiers. Israel should be concerned about their own casualties, not those in Gaza.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:33 amCompletely rank speculation without any basis in fact. What is your evidence?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:35 amSo, we all should be good with capturing any Hamas combatants and leadership and try them at the Hague.
Right?
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:35 am466 – from Twitter post
That is something that needs to be said by Israel’s interlocutors:
hat they do not want to be enemies of Israel, and no matter how many of their people are killed,they will still not want to be enemies of Israel.
Hamas’ massacres were designed to make sure that no Arab leader says that. Or any civilian.
Any negotiations with anyone who does not say that should not be done or attempted,;;= Millions of Palestinians who live here with us between the sea and Jordan, are not our enemy. Just like most Israelis, so do most Palestinians, they just want to live their lives in peace and dignity.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:41 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:35 am
They knew too much, including where the parking lot was.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:44 amSome had Israeli rescue uniforms
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:44 amNo, as illegal combatants they would be tried by Israeli courts, to be held as bargaining chips and traded for Israeli hostages or their corpses (which Israel, much to their regret I’m sure, has done frequently throughout its history.)
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:44 amPro-life with some gusto
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:45 amYou mean they couldn’t find it on Google Maps? LOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:45 amsince Saturday, Netanyahu has had three telephone calls with Biden.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:46 amGaza isn’t a nation, Kevin, and they’re under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority (or State of Palestine), which is a Geneva Conventions signatory, so Israel has an obligation to abide. Even leaving that aside, Israel is an “Occupying Power“, having taken those territories in the ’67 war. They may have withdrawn from Gaza, but they still control it by blockade, and Israel pretty much dictates what it does in the West Bank, such as with new settlements.
Also, the 4th Geneva Convention prohibits collective punishment, which could include acts like cutting off water and electricity across the whole territory.
The US still follows the rules of war when it comes to al Qaeda and the Islamic State, and Hamas is similarly outlaw as them. We’re still obligated to minimize civilian casualties (no matter how unlikable those civilians are), and to we’re treat detainees humanely until they’re adjudicated or released, even though those terrorist groups have no intention to abide by international law.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:47 amIt was too well planned,
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:47 amCutting off the ekectricity is the most humanitarian thing you could do,
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:48 amThe press hasn’t even yet been called into the room where Biden is to speak.
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:49 am> So, what you’re saying is that war is ugly.
No, what i’m saying is that claiming that the people of Gaza have the power to leave, or the power to choose their leadership, is make an untrue claim. If done knowing that it is untrue, it is *lying*.
aphrael (680200) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:50 amAs you acknowledged, the concert was publicly advertised. The fact that the attack was well planned (with the assistance of Iran) says nothing about your charge the Hamas was part of the concert planning. Everyone probably knew about the concert, it was not a secret.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:51 amElectricity was actually left on for three hours,
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:51 am> they are all war criminals and have no rights.
Sure. Hamas can die in a fire for all I care.
But there *are* innocents in Gaza, too, and how Israel takes care of *them* matters.
aphrael (680200) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:51 amKevin, I said Dresden was a reason.
I’m not to engage in that argument, about whether or not we should’ve done it. It was a tough call, and we were fortunate that Hirohito packed it in after Nagasaki. But that event was also a reason for the Geneva Conventions, and the point is that you don’t throw them out when you feel inconvenienced by them.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:58 am@498
Just stop subscribing Western principles on these people.
Hamas are jihadist…meaning, they’re just like ISIS and just as barbaric.
You cannot reason with them.
This last saturday wasn’t the only terror attack, only the largest to date.
They’ve been kidnapping, raping, killing, sending rockets for decades…
And none of the regular populace had condemned, or done anything to reign in the Hamas?
None at all?
No. If my government had done that in my name, I’d have zero issue of either:
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:00 ama) getting the F out
b) revolting
@502
Good thing they’re warning the innocents to leave certain areas before the military moves it.
Give ’em credit for that at least.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:02 amAnd go where?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:07 amHere’s the latest Vatnik Soup installment, and it’s about Russia’s palling around with militant Islamists like Hamas and Hezbollah. An excerpt…
A terrorist organization like Russia wouldn’t be accusing another terrorist organization of being a terrorist organization, no sirree.
And speaking of Russia, this fake BBC segment asserting that Ukraine smuggled weapons to Hamas smacks of Putin.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:19 amCompletely rank speculation without any basis in fact. What is your evidence?
Demanded of Captain Obvious.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:22 amSo, we all should be good with capturing any Hamas combatants and leadership and try them at the Hague.
Israel has signed, but not ratified, the ICC accords. I think that they’d just jail them after a tribunal. Any trial would be reserved for leadership they intended to execute — something they do very rarely.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:25 amiden atarted. Describes the massacres
Sammy Finkelman (8d7a46) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:25 amGaza isn’t a nation, Kevin, and they’re under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority (or State of Palestine), which is a Geneva Conventions signatory, so Israel has an obligation to abide
It is an elected government. Israel does not have an obligation to abide by an agreement that is so grossly violated. But feel free to sue them.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:27 am> Just stop subscribing Western principles on these people.
I’m not. I’m saying the overwhelming majority of the two million people living in Gaza have nowhere to go, no power to choose who is running the place, and no prospects for a better future unless something changes.
That doesn’t make them westerners culturally. But it means that most of them have lived the entirety of their lives as helpless victims of things they can’t control, with no options available to them — something most of us in the west simply can’t imagine because *our* lives are so much better.
But it’s much easier for us to assume there must be a solution that they’re just not choosing to take, because it makes us feel better about the world and helps us hide from the fact that this tragedy has been a festering sore on humanity for the entirety of all of our lives.
aphrael (680200) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:30 amAlso, the 4th Geneva Convention prohibits collective punishment, which could include acts like cutting off water and electricity across the whole territory.
That is not a “collective punishment” but a non-violent military action aimed at reducing the ability of Hamas to continue. You can spin it how you want, but that’s how Israel will portray it. We bombed effing dams in Vietnam.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:30 amAnd go where?
Somewhere else. It’s not a postage stamp. Note that the US bombed residential areas in Iraq in an attempt to kill Saddam before the actual invasion. They were all wealthy (read: Baathist) areas, and hardly “innocents.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:33 am@505
To designated safe zones within Gaza for the time.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:38 amLook, I am sure that Israel, being a Western nation, will conduct itself reasonably. That does not mean that a jihadi who just raped and killed a hostage, or has used women and children as human shields, is going to be allowed to surrender. That does not mean that people living next to Hamas HQ should feel safe from attack, even if they hate Hamas. That does not mean that someone who carries a weapon when the fighting comes their way should expect a great deal of due process.
But Israel will not fire-bomb Gaza, or go through houses shooting unarmed occupants, or behead women and children. Still, it would behoove anyone to stay out of their way if at all possible.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:43 amTo designated safe zones within Gaza for the time.
There are all kinds of reasons for Israel to want to provide refuge for the non-combatants, if only for their own purposes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:44 amAJ_Liberty (909d33) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:43 am
“Innocents” refers to children, AJ.
felipe (5e2a04) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:59 amKevin, Gaza hasn’t had an elected government since Hamas forcibly took over in 2007, and it takes nothing away from the fact that Israel has remained an Occupying Power since the 1960s.
It’s exactly a “collective punishment” when the occupying power is punishing the entire population for the individual criminal acts of a fraction, as defined.
I’m not thrilled about playing the institutionalist here, but we do have institutions that have been borne out of devastating experience and, ultimately, we are a nation that was built on rights, due process and the rule of law, and we should expect the same from our allies.
We’re expecting this conduct from Ukraine, which is in an even more existential fight than Israel, and this is especially important when the country in question is the sole free nation in the Middle East, where its Arab citizens live in more freedom than in any other Muslim-majority nation.
Israel has the firepower to wipe out Gaza, even without nukes, but they don’t do it they’d be worse monsters than the monsters they’re fighting, and it would certainly backfire on the world stage. I think even Putin gets that. At least, I hope he does.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:05 pmPaul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:15 am
One has nothing to do with the other, I agree. I don’t see how anyone thinks I was listing reasons for doing so, only reasons for proof of a credible threat. Does anyone dispute that Trump is a credible threat?
Does recognizing the the existence of fear and loathing for Trump mean anything else other than a recognition of reality? If it does, I suggest that the meaning is a personal inference; an inference not of my making.
felipe (5e2a04) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:07 pmPaul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:38 am
Thank you for that link, Paul.
felipe (5e2a04) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:10 pmDGAF…I don’t have any sympathies to the regular Gazans:
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:21 pmhttps://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/10/10/at-first-we-were-ecstatic-gazas-fafo-moment-and-irans-strategic-miscalculation-n583689
Surprising coming from the usually even-keel Morrissy:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 8:36 am
Absolutely correct. And who are those who are doing the fear and loathing, here and abroad? Your guess is as good as anyone’s why Trump engenders these feelings in those who experience them.
Every one here should know that I am not of that number with respect to Trump, Biden, or any other politician. If Republicans wish to nominate Trump, I’ll add my vote to the tally in the General. I will not vote for Trump in the Primary.
Don’t nominate Trump.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:22 pmWhen you say “somewhere else” where? If the goal is to destroy Gaza, its citizens have nowhere to go: the border is closed to Egypt, Gaza access to the Med is blockaded by Israel, and of course their other border is with Israel. Relative to 99% of countries, it is a postage stamp.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:37 pmWhere= are they? There are no designated (by whom?) safe areas in Gaza, especially if the goal is to eradicate Gaza as an entity.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:39 pmSam G (8d2ed1) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:30 am
Forgive us if we have neglected to welcome you to this site, Sam. I welcome you, and I have appreciated your civil comments. You’ll soon see that, for the most part, ideas are criticized rather than persons. Not always, of course – what with free-will and hot tempers.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:40 pmTrump doesn’t inspire the fear that, for example, North Koreans probably have for their government, or citizens of China, Russia, or Saudi Arabia for theirs.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:42 pm@524
Via wire, social media and TV.
Israel is creating a “beach head” for their force.
So, the do things like “knock bombs” to tell inhabitants that they’re going to bomb a target.
Israel is going to destroy Hamas and will do whatever they can to mitigate civilian lives.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:43 pmMcCarthy reportedly urging House GOP to not nominate him for Speaker.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:45 pmThat’s going to be tough since Israel has cutoff electricity to Gaza.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:56 pmThat’s going to be tough since Israel has cutoff electricity to Gaza.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 12:56 pm
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 1:00 pmHence why they’re doing knock bombs in addition to all that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking
I would be surprised if Israel did that during a war which will be fast and furious. Why give your enemies a heads-up?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 1:03 pmThat only works when you have specific targets-not when the whole country is a target.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 1:04 pmYou know what Rip.
WTAF do you think Israel should do?
You have habits of criticizing everything, and rarely offer solutions.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 1:10 pm“Land snatching … land … land … see SNATCH.”
Israel’s enemies would like nothing better than to have Israel descend to the level of the Arabs in the eyes of the Western world.
Two things are responsible for the friendship Israel receives from the West:
1. The Holocaust; and
2. Its European-American standards of civilization.
If the Israelis behave as savagely as the Arabs and sink into the cesspool of barbarity which surrounds them, they will lose that friendship.
nk (0e610b) — 10/10/2023 @ 1:36 pm@534: See 515.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 1:43 pmAlso, Blazing Saddles, Harvey Korman to Mel Brooks. Coincidentally, both Jewish. Not sure what to make of that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 1:47 pmI don’t have a “solution”, no one does. Nothing that posters here have suggested above are realistic. Israel is not going to level Gaza, fire bomb Gaza City, kill 2.4M people, reoccupy Gaza, “salt the earth,” bomb Iran, or even exterminate Hamas (Hamas is too integrated into Gazan society that you would need to exterminate the population in order to do so.)
The coming war will be like the 2014 Gaza War, but much longer and more intense.
Only keyboard commandos have solutions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:01 pmAlso, Blazing Saddles, Harvey Korman to Mel Brooks. Coincidentally, both Jewish. Not sure what to make of that.
The trope that it’s a fight over land.
nk (af3851) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:04 pm@537
Hamas simply has to be destroyed.
I doubt that would require a full extermination. (not to mention literally impossible)
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:06 pm@538
You’re right, it isn’t over land.
It’s over whether or not there should be an Israeli state.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:07 pmWe’ll see if Israel can do it. Also, “full extermination” isn’t “literally impossible“, it’s quite doable.
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:15 pmwhembly (5f7596) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:07 pm
The reason they don’tlikeit is because they have meaningful elections there.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:16 pmHere is a better link to the Israeli nuclear weapons article.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:17 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:01 pm
Israel can put Gaza under siege and demand that Hamas evacuate, somewhat similar to hat they did in Beirut in 1982. The problem is the principle that people cannot be deported from their own country, (which was a problem in Beirut as well) but that can be gotten around by making the departure or exile “voluntary” and part of the surrender.
If that happens the next round will have Iran using anuclear weapon, besides the risk of a repeat of the pogrom.
Only keyboard commandos have solutions.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:21 pm@541
IF they do have nukes, they’re not going to waste it on Gaza. Keeping an ambiguous position is keeping the regional foes in check.
They don’t need to use it on Gaza.
It’s going to be ugly and messy, but Israel is more than enough to pacify Gaza and make sure Hamas becomes extinct.
whembly (5edaac) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:22 pmSounds like Bush’s simplistic explanation of the 9/11 attacks:
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:23 pmI really doubt that Iran would use a nuclear weapon to support Hamas. To do so would risk their complete destruction.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:27 pmI don’t know that this isn’t exactly what Benjamin Netanyahu intends. In any case, he cannot leave Hamas in power in Gaza.
I heard on the radio that a successor government has been discussed (in the past.) The plan would be is for a UN transitional government and then turning over power to Mohammed Abbas. But I can’t find any mention of it.
Not so a great idea, but better than the status quo – unless someone bribes Fatah.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:34 pm> IF they do have nukes, they’re not going to waste it on Gaza.
Not only that, but nuking Gaza would be a terrible choice for Israel; it’s too close, the fallout is going to blanket Israel itself.
aphrael (680200) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:37 pmRip Murdock @ 546.
You don’t expect them to admit they are against democracy and freedom, do you?
Of course, they are going to complain about other things.
But look at their allies, and that supplies a motive. And assumes they are cynical and lying about what they do complain about, but that is obvious.
And that they can’t possibly believe in their ideology. It’s power and maybe glory and money that they want.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:39 pmThat Likud member is hysterical or just trying to look strong. And believes there is a magic bullet.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:41 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:43 am
Gaza Civilians tend to underestimate the accuracy of Israeli weapons (good for their safety) but also underestimate the range of destruction.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:44 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:51 am
I only said I suspected that Hamas somehow influenced the plannng of the event. I want to look (or stumble across) for some evidence of that, but have not found it except for the word “peace” mentioned in its connection.
. I have not found any information about who planned the event.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:51 pm512, Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:30 am
And if that’s “collective punishment” then what are most economic sanctions?
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:53 pmEconomic sanctions maybe are not considered punishment because it falls within the general power of governments to regulate trade.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:54 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:27 pm
Iran might bet that it would not. Besides they would use that only after a further escalation – to support Hezbollah.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:56 pmAnd if that’s “collective punishment” then what are most economic sanctions?
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 2:53 pm
Yep.
felipe (5e2a04) — 10/10/2023 @ 3:00 pmBiden said that at least 13 American citizens had been killed (raised from earlier estimates of 7 or 9) and some taken hostage At least one has been confirmed, and there are many missing people. Fifty known hostages.
And Joe Biden told the following anecdote:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/10/10/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-terrorist-attacks-in-israel-2
Golda Meir is known to have made that remark – I read about it before – but did she tell it to Joe Biden ??
Did she say it often? That is the only way that could be true.
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-golda-meir-meeting-what-we-know-1833638#:~:text=He%20first%20visited%20Israel%20as,on%20his%20face%2C%20he%20said.
I heard that Golda Meir quote before but not in connection with Joe Biden.
It’s given here, but with no source: (but web page dates to 2016)
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/golda-meir-quotes-on-israel-and-judaism
Here too. but no source
https://quotefancy.com/quote/819218/Golda-Meir-We-Jews-have-a-secret-weapon-in-our-struggle-with-the-Arabs-we-have-no-place
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 3:11 pmBo original source here but slightly different version
https://www.msudenver.edu/golda-meir-center/golda-meir/quotes
Here also:
https://libquotes.com/golda-meir/quote/lbc0m3h
Joe Biden has her saying that specially to him,(because he looked depressed) and before the Yom Kippur war.
Joe Biden:
But the Yom Kippur war took everyone by surprise!
Golda Meir wouldn’t have described Israel as facing a bad situation in September, 1973.
Biden said this in 2015:
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/biden-told-us-jews-that-israel-not-america-guaranteed-their-security-395686
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/10/2023 @ 3:22 pmhttps://www.c-span.org/video/?c4898776/biden-golda-meir-story-1992
He has her smoking and says that she said it to a lot of other people including Senator Gramm, although he thought she said it only to him at the time..
She would have been arguing for U.S. aid, if true.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/10/2023 @ 3:28 pmThe administration seem to be moving forward with the Iran deal. You would think they’d re-freeze that $6 billion, but they can’t quite bring themselves to do that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 4:15 pmRevital “Tally” Gotliv,
Nuttier than MTG
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 4:17 pmI really doubt that Iran would use a nuclear weapon to support Hamas. To do so would risk their complete destruction.
While I agree with this, I’ll point out that it would not take many nukes to utterly destroy Israel. Perhaps as few as 3 modest bombs.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 4:27 pmAnd if that’s “collective punishment” then what are most economic sanctions?
Historically “collective punishment” is rounding up hostages to shoot in case of enemy action. One side IS doing this, but it’s not Israel.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 4:28 pm@544 Sammy This key board commando does have a solution that would work! I have said it here for years. Pay egypt $$$$$$$$$ dollars to take gaza over and police it with their military. They say no so we have to make them an offer both carrot and stick they can’t refuse. I wait to read why this wouldn’t work. Egyptian army wont be nice to hamas either!
asset (124369) — 10/10/2023 @ 4:59 pmThis. Israel should and hopefully will eradicate Hamas. That will unavoidably mean the death of civilians. But how many, which ones, and who is responsible for those deaths is up to Israel. If Israel takes reasonable precautions to avoid civilian casualties, the deaths will be on Hamas, both morally and legally, for attacking Israel and for embedding itself in a human shield of civilians. But if Israel kills civilians indiscriminately, as some here seem to think it should, Israel will be morally and legally culpable. It’s a pretty simple line conceptually, but hard to navigate in practice. And it’s inevitable that anti-Israel NGOs, e.g., the UN, Human Rights Watch, will blame Israel for the civilian deaths, regardless of the diligence of its efforts to avoid them.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:03 pmAlso very much this. The problem, again, is how to fairly assess Israel’s behavior when the international arbiters of such things, e.g., the UN, Human Rights Watch, will have decided Israel is committing war crimes before it fires a single shot.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:05 pmHow do you tell the difference between a member of Hamas and an ordinary Palestinian schlub?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:21 pmHundreds of jewish children have been killed. At least 40 babies murdered some beheaded at a kibbutz. Over 300 palestinian children have been killed so far to be joined by thousands more who will be killed or starved to death. The evil of hamas vs corrupt evil netanhayu. Its like when hitler attacked stalin you don’t know who to boo for! In America the left and the right choosing up sides.
asset (124369) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:25 pmBlack Lives Matter Chicago cheers the murder of Israeli civilians, many of whom, by the way, happen to be black.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:31 pmRIP Kevin Phillips (82).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:34 pmThe US still follows the rules of war when it comes to al Qaeda and the Islamic State, and Hamas is similarly outlaw as them.
This is untrue. Hamas is the elected government of a subdivision of an internationally recognized state, while al Qaeda is just a bunch of thugs. The US has no international requirements with regard to al Qaeda (and the Geneva Accords are quite vague about guerilla groups) although our courts have imposed some rules.
W’s original attitude towards illegal combatants was just fine under international rules, but the US courts dialed it back some. That’s the fault of US courts and in any event do not apply to Israel.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:42 pmThat Hamas, operating under a signatory to the Geneva Accords, violates them as a rule means that those they engage with have no obligations to observe the accords wither. No quarter means no quarter.
As I indicated earlier, see Sundance on knife fights.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:44 pmHow do you tell the difference between a member of Hamas and an ordinary Palestinian schlub?
Hamas is well fed.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:44 pmThe problem, again, is how to fairly assess Israel’s behavior when the international arbiters of such things, e.g., the UN, Human Rights Watch, will have decided Israel is committing war crimes before it fires a single shot.
Not to mention some armchair judges here.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 5:45 pmOr armchair constitutional experts.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2023 @ 6:01 pm>How do you tell the difference between a member of Hamas and an ordinary Palestinian schlub?
Therein lies the conundrum.
aphrael (6ef592) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:12 pmYou’re welcome, regarding the link to Ms. Hayat, felipe.
Regarding Trump, I continue to be mystified as to what your stance is toward him, and I don’t want to replay our prior disagreement on the subject.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:13 pmNetanyahu has been through scandal and such, but it was his government that ignored multiple warnings from the Egyptians. Maybe he won’t get booted while they’re in the middle of this war, but I think he’s on borrowed time.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/10/2023 @ 7:32 pm@580 netanyahu sent most of israel’s army to west settlements he is building to protect his settler voters. Notice how faux news doesn’t ask where was the army? The answer would embarrass likud party.
asset (12b51a) — 10/10/2023 @ 9:38 pmI very much doubt that the Israelis will use, or need, nukes in Gaza. The problems there can be dealt with through conventional forces, particularly ground troops. Sorting out Hamas members isn’t easy, but without boots on the ground all you have is mass destruction.
However.
Should Hezbollah start firing their 100,000+ rockets into Tel Aviv — with a cumulative equivalence to a nuclear weapon, Israel will move the smash that flat in a hurry. Not sure they’ll have a lot of options.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:19 pmThis is just terrible.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/10/2023 @ 10:21 pmRight wing media says its all joe biden’s fault! All 6 billion was used by hamas! Except it hasn’t been unfrozen yet. Most young people are pro palestinian thanks to netanyahu and likud party. Supporters of Israel need to curb right media like mark levin and faux noise as they create enemies for Israel among younger americans with their name calling. Harassing the squad for asking for peace is counterproductive as they will find out.
asset (12b51a) — 10/10/2023 @ 11:54 pmIsrael can certainly kill a lot of people, break a lot of things, and displace a lot of civilians. Then what? Someone will need to govern and police the place. Why not jump to the inevitable: a multinational force needs to insert itself to root out Hamas and assume control of Gaza. It can provide the buffer with Israel, guarantee humanitarian relief, and continue to drive Hamas hanger-ons into the holes they deserve.
As dysfunctional and littered with anti-semitism as the UN is, it can avoid the legitimacy problem that Israel will face…along with the proportionality and escalation critiques. The arab world…with eyes to Jordan and Egypt…must take the lead in managing Gaza. There’s no perfect solution but coexistence with a security buffer might be the best to be hoped for.
AJ_Liberty (58f9ec) — 10/11/2023 @ 4:30 amhttps://www.foxnews.com/media/protesters-face-off-near-harvard-man-calls-pro-israel-demonstrators-nazis-pigs
Why are these people here?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/11/2023 @ 5:13 amBoy who does this sound like?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/11/2023 @ 5:26 amThis is exactly the brainless mentality of the intolerant hard right, that if someone on the Left says something, it is implicitly false and wrong, and it’s a reason why so many on the Right support Putin and oppose Biden when it comes to helping Ukraine defend itself. Such stupidity renders the the hardline extremist unwilling or unable to assess each comment on its merits.
Ms. Omar is badly wrong, horribly wrong, that we “oppose an Israeli military response”. Hamas needs to be destroyed, and it’ll take a full military ground invasion to make it happen.
Ms. Omar is not wrong about collective punishment and about the mass-murdering of civilians.
Ms. Omar is wrong about this “cycle of violence” nonsense, because one side has been the aggressor against Israel since its founding. If one side stops fighting, then there’s peace.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:35 amAJ_Liberty (58f9ec) — 10/11/2023 @ 4:30 am
Remember the peacekeeping force that was in Beirut, Lebanon in 1983?
Reagan was aware of a danger and made plans to protect it, but they were done on a too long time scale – before they were implemented, a truck bombbomb was driven into the Marine Corps barracks, and Reagan abandoned the mission, (and in Benghazi in 2012 the United States allowed itself to be driven out. There was a CIA station there – the US stupidly thought was secret and Obama ordered it evacuated after it came under attack. The CIA station there was buying up stored Libyan weapons to prevent them from being given by Turkey to Islamist forces in Syria. That mission actually did succeed – the ship carrying weapons the US did not succeed in buying up sailed, but Turkey listened to the warning by Christopher Stevens, the US Ambassador to Libya and the weapons stayed in Turkey.)
That peacekeeping force had better be prepared to take massive casualties, and not leave, or the arrangements would need to be much better thought out.
Sammy Finkelman (e5027c) — 10/11/2023 @ 8:30 amThe arab world…with eyes to Jordan and Egypt…must take the lead in managing Gaza. There’s no perfect solution but coexistence with a security buffer might be the best to be hoped for
The real problem for the Gazans is that Israeli sovereignty over Gaza is probably better than almost any other alternative, but Israel isn’t keen on that idea for a number of reasons. Multinational forces are like committees, they spend all their time redeciding past decisions and cannot act with any unanimity. See Sebrenica.
Technically, they are part of the Palestinian entity, but that allowed them to be ruled by Hamas (instead of Fatah) and neither choice was particularly satisfying. The real solution is a single democratic state of Israel in the former Palestine, but that would make a 50-50 population split between groups (with the Arab birth rate twice as high) and the current Israelis want nothing to do with that. For good reason as we have seen this week.
There are Israelis who favor the alternative (ethnic cleansing) and they are probably finding their voice again now.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 9:45 amFix tags:
The arab world…with eyes to Jordan and Egypt…must take the lead in managing Gaza. There’s no perfect solution but coexistence with a security buffer might be the best to be hoped for
The real problem for the Gazans is that Israeli sovereignty over Gaza is probably better than almost any other alternative, but Israel isn’t keen on that idea for a number of reasons. Multinational forces are like committees, they spend all their time redeciding past decisions and cannot act with any unanimity. See Sebrenica.
Technically, they are part of the Palestinian entity, but that allowed them to be ruled by Hamas (instead of Fatah) and neither choice was particularly satisfying. The real solution is a single democratic state of Israel in the former Palestine, but that would make a 50-50 population split between groups (with the Arab birth rate twice as high) and the current Israelis want nothing to do with that. For good reason as we have seen this week.
There are Israelis who favor the alternative (ethnic cleansing) and they are probably finding their voice again now.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 9:45 amRather than a multinational force (and, really, why multinational?), sovereignty by a responsible Arab state might be workable. Not Egypt, as it would given them a strategic advantage in any conflict, but maybe the Saudis — the area is Sunni, not Shi’ite. Saudi is unlikely to allow something like Hamas to build, and has the money to turn Gaza into something livable. It could be part of the now-delayed peace deal with Israel.
Of course, the Israeli settling on the West Bank remains a huge issue and would prevent any external presence there. I don’t see a solution there as long as most of those settlements remain. But maybe that’s for another day.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 9:55 amThis is favorable news, the rejection by House members of Trump’s endorsement of Jordan, if Newsmax’s reporting is true.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/11/2023 @ 10:05 amFoxNews is saying Scalise is “House Speaker nominee”.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/11/2023 @ 10:19 amFinally, the GOP has done something sensible. Perhaps things like a mass terror attack by militant Islamists clarify the mind.
“why multinational?”
Because the costs will be high, especially initially with rooting Hamas out and later absorbing the death throes of inevitable suicide bombers. If Saudi Arabia hasn’t offered its assistance over the past 70 years, why would they suddenly become magnanimous now?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/11/2023 @ 10:43 amIf Saudi Arabia hasn’t offered its assistance over the past 70 years, why would they suddenly become magnanimous now?
Because MBS has ambitions. He needs to access the economy of Israel, but he cannot be seen as abandoning the Palestinians. This is a two-fer.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 10:59 amMore to the point, the PLO and Fatah — once named the only legitimate voice of the Palestinians — have been marginalized and now undermined by Hamas. This is a time to replace them, at least in Gaza. The Saudis are not the nicest people in the world, but they aren’t psychopaths either. They are the only player that could be acceptable to all concerned.
Multinational forces (and the UN) are historically worthless.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 11:02 amJudging by all reports, Hamas sent about 2000 psychopathic “active shooters” into Israel, most of whom killed until they were put down. Wherever you live, think about 2000 active shooters suddenly popping up in your county of residence. What would you expect your reaction would be, even after they were all stopped?
Alternatively, consider the same proportion of Americans killed in such an assault — about 50,000, and that there was a clear source of the attack. What Israel is doing will be mild in comparison to what our response would be.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 11:13 amHe “won” 113-99. Still well short of majority needed (217).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 11:19 amHouse was gaveled in to session for 2.5 minutes, then back out. Don’t expect a vote today.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/11/2023 @ 12:19 pmHope Scalise gets the gavel. A target of left wing domestic terrorism as House speaker would be fitting.
lloyd (3dfb84) — 10/11/2023 @ 1:00 pm@601
Right?!?
Makes it harder for them to defend bad rhetoric from the left.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/11/2023 @ 1:04 pmScalise is still 104 votes short of a majority. Of the 221 Republicans, nine didn’t vote for either candidate.
In order to be speaker, he will at least five of them plus the 99 that voted for Jordan. A tall order.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 1:23 pmHe “won” 113-99. Still well short of majority needed (217)
Well, Jordan is still shorter and so Scalise’s name goes to the floor. That’s how a caucus works. It’s also supposed to be the unit-rule marching order, assuming you have an actual Party.
I still say to kick out the HFC members entirely and attempt to govern as a minority party.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:02 pmPrediction: If they try to do to Scalise what they did to McCarthy it won’t work and there will be retribution after.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:04 pmWhat would Joseph Cannon do? Or Sam Rayburn?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:09 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 11:13 am
They were not all sent at the same time. Israeli newspapers reported that more were sent (or went back) Sunday night, but the Israeli army was ready for them by that time.
Most victims of 9/11werefrom the New York metropolitan area -population of around 25 million. But on the other hand Israelis murdered were heavily concentrated about those living in Sderot and other places near Gaza. Some communities lost 10% of their population. Maybe more.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:20 pm597. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 11:02 am
Legitimate representative. At the Arab summit in Rabat, Morocco in November, 1974,which also created the Palestinian people. (previously there had been only Palestinian refugees) At that summit, King Hussein of Jordan agreed to give up responsibility for the Wes Bank. Yasir Arafat was declared their leader without somehow also being named king, kings having gone out of fashion in most of te world after the French Revolution.
The crazy thing was that. in 1993, Israel accepted that designation and negotiated with Yasir Arafat and brought him back from exile in Tunis. Instead of promoting local leaders and democracy.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:29 pmYesterday President Biden gave the number of dead American citizens as 14, an update from the previously reported 7 or 9. Today it was 22,with 20 missing, They are likely mostly dead. I think one American citizen is believed to have been alive in Gaza -altogether maybe 50 of a little more than 100 whom Hamas claimed to hold.(with 1800 plus murdered)
President Biden asked Israel not to attempt a rescue operation (and indeed the situation is not like Entebbe in 1976, where Netanyahu’s older brother Yoni lost his life. Biden sent people with training in rescue operations to consult.
Eight people with French citizenship were reported dead.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:36 pmThe very first thing Hamas disabled on Saturday were the cameras.
Israel used to have drones that flew over the Gaza border for 24 hours a day but they had diminished that. These drones need gasoline, and they were trying to cut the budget.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:38 pmOne blogger’s report:
https://libibamizrach.blogspot.com
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:44 pmRe: Kicking out the HFC: LOL!
Gaetz has said he will vote for Scalise, but MTG says she will vote against him because of his cancer diagnosis; and Chip Roy and Michael Cloud of Texas who backed Jordan are still no.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 2:59 pmBit of a non-sequitur:
I am leery of the efforts to use the 14th amendment to disqualify Trump from running, but this response from the Trump team is…something…
“The Presidential oath, which the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment surely knew, requires the President to swear to ‘preserve, protect and defend’ the Constitution — not to ‘support’ the Constitution,” said the filing by Trump’s attorneys. “Because the framers chose to define the group of people subject to Section Three by an oath to ‘support’ the Constitution of the United States, and not by an oath to ‘preserve, protect and defend’ the Constitution, the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment never intended for it to apply to the President.”
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/11/2023 @ 3:09 pmA tenuous connection at best. US Senators have no influence on local zoning, state and local taxes, housing policies, traffic congestion, local school boards, business permitting, crime, public transportation, public works (except when they bring in federal funding), emergency medical services, building and safety enforcement, etc. all of which affect the quality of life.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 3:13 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 3:21 pmAt least four Republicans have declared they will not vote for Steve Scalise: MTG, Chip Roy, Michael Cloud and Max Miller. Nancy Mace and Bob Good have said they are undecided.
Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 4:02 pmI doubt the UN wants the job of rooting out Hamas and governing Gaza any more than Israel or Hamas wants them to take it. Among other things, outside the US and its allies, most of the world, including Russia and China, both permanent Security Council members, consider Israel, not Hamas, the problem.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/11/2023 @ 4:05 pmIsrael will need to directly govern Gaza for the foreseeable future if only not to allow Hamas to return to power.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 4:20 pmlurker (cd7cd4) — 10/11/2023 @ 4:05 pm
I agree, lurker.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/11/2023 @ 5:53 pm(except when they bring in federal funding)
The bulk of all new dollars. Just think how California could have improved roads and light rail in Los Angeles for the money thrown away on the Moonbeam Express.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:04 pmIt was a federal judge that ruined, um, redesigned, the Century Freeway. Can anyone tell me how many ramps there are at the Century-Harbor interchange? I think there are 20, but I’ve heard numbers between 18 and 21.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:06 pmIsrael will need to directly govern Gaza for the foreseeable future if only not to allow Hamas to return to power.
I’d rather see Saudi do it, as they have rather fewer scruples dealing with folks like Hamas. Their need for commerce, and an ally against Iran, would keep them honest.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:08 pmYou won’t get any argument from me. The voters are the ones to blame.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:10 pmGiven that Saudi Arabia has blamed Israel for the Hamas assault, why would that be good choice?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:19 pmIsrael shouldn’t farm out its security to the UN or other foreign forces. It is a recipe for disaster.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:21 pmI did not expect Jordan not to be Speaker by now. I am pleasantly surprised. I guess that even self-seeking crapweasels can finally realize, like McCarthy did, that when you play with Trump he is the cat and you are the mouse.
nk (42c90e) — 10/11/2023 @ 6:37 pmAt the expense of repeating myself (which I really don’t like to do), Trump is a sick f-ck.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/11/2023 @ 9:00 pm@627:
“Trump is assh0le” is roughly the same as “dog bites man.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 10:02 pmIsrael shouldn’t farm out its security to the UN or other foreign forces. It is a recipe for disaster.
Israel didn’t want to stay in Gaza, so it farmed out its security to Hamas, and allowed them to get money from everyone. After this effort they will leave again.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/11/2023 @ 10:04 pmThis is the guy whose immediate reaction to 9/11 was to brag — falsely of course — that he now had the tallest building in south Manhattan. Whenever you think you’ve seen his bottom, smack yourself. He can go lower. Sick fvck indeed.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/11/2023 @ 10:08 pm“Israel shouldn’t farm out its security to the UN or other foreign forces.”
Gaza is a sewer inundated with rats. There has to be a long-term plan that changes the repeating dynamic. If you believe that Israel should return to governing Hamas, how do you see that playing out? The Arab community has to be made to step up. Enough rhetorical puffery. There needs to be a sustainable solution. This is one more opportunity for big-stick diplomacy.
AJ_Liberty (6a8e67) — 10/12/2023 @ 4:49 amAt the expense of repeating myself (which I really don’t like to do), Trump is a sick f-ck.
It cannot be said often enough.
In this particular instance, Cadet “Vaginas Are Landmines” Bonespurs wants to remind us of how brave and tough he was to have somebody in the military or the CIA fire a Hellfire missile from a drone at a foreign airport.
nk (24e06c) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:54 amIt should concern perspective GOP voters to have Trump coordinating foreign policy. Hoping someone “checks” him is a sad plan.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:43 am@633
I have a solution.
Nominate Ron DeSantis.
Or, frankly, just about any other GOP candidate.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/12/2023 @ 7:52 am@632:
Sometimes I forget he was a draft dodger, too. He has so many negatives it’s hard to keep track.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:00 amIt should concern perspective GOP voters to have Trump coordinating foreign policy.
To rank the people @390:
9. Kamala Harris (actually worse than Trump)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:03 am8. Donald Trump
7. Vivek Ramswamy
6. Joe Biden
5. Tim Scott
4. Ron DeSantis
3. Mike Pence
2. Chris Christie
1. Nikki Haley
@636, based on his previous history, I remain anxious with Biden running the show. However, he’s done better than expected on Ukraine….and he’s struck the right tone with Israel now. Iran….no. China? Maybe too much baggage, but nothing horrible yet. Afghanistan, disastrous but people have moved on. Global warming? He’s left of me. Immigration? Uninspired. Still, DeSantis? Weak on Ukraine…maybe too aggressive with Mexico. I worry that he’s not guided by wisdom.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:22 amAJ, I’d feel a little better about Biden if he re-froze the $6 billion.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:34 amPaul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/11/2023 @ 9:00 pm
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:49 amAnd in about 20 years Israel will be back to attack whatever group replaces Hamas.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:52 amLOL!
Republican Presidential RCP Polling Average
DeSantis-Trump +45
Haley +50
Ramaswamy +51
Pence +54
and so on.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:59 amI don’t think so…….
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 9:09 am@641 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:59 am
This doomerism is getting old Rip.
If you have any interest of Trump NOT getting the GOP nomination, you’d get better engagement in collaborating with your peers on HOW to push a not-Trump across the finish line.
Otherwise, you come off as a jerk when LOL! poop-n-swoop posts.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/12/2023 @ 9:36 amIt’s not doomerism, it is the current polling reality. Feel free to make up your own numbers.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 9:40 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2023 @ 3:21 pm They got along with local mayors before 1993.
Israel cannot make peace with evildoers and that includes Saudi Arabia
under its current government. Others maybe can, but not Israel.
Israel should not legitimize evildoers, as Netanyahu was ready to do with Saudi Arabia.
Sammy Finkelman (828d12) — 10/12/2023 @ 9:59 am@644
If polling is reality, Rip, we’d be in the 2nd Hillary Clinton term.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:02 am@646 the polling in 2016 was accurate – it’s just that polling doesn’t account for the Electoral College.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:26 am@638 WaPo is reporting that the $6bil has been re-frozen.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:37 amYes, polls change, whembly, but they haven’t changed for Trump, despite 4 indictments and 91 felony counts, despite being an adjudicated fraudster and liar and sexual abuser, despite his praise for terrorists like Putin and Hezbollah, despite his frequent bouts of malignant narcissism and general stupidity.
If there’s a line where the majority of my party says “f-ck it, I can’t back him anymore”, I haven’t seen it, and I have no idea what additional transgressions he’ll have to commit to change that support, so count me as pessimistic that DeSantis or Haley have a path to the nomination. If you want to call that “doomerism”, fine.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:49 amWill the American hostages be returned?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:29 amBut Jordan doesn’t have the votes either…
What a cluster…
whembly (5f7596) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:31 amThe only thing we know is that it will be difficult, so I defer to this: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/american-hostages-israel-gaza-hamas/index.html
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:35 amRepublican Sen. Tuberville Warns Against ‘Picking Sides in the Middle East’ in Jaw-Dropping Interview
Senator Tommy Tuberville (R-AL) is under fire for telling an interviewer that “when you start picking sides in the Middle East, it can get really messy very quick” amid the violence in Israel spurred by Hamas.
……….
The remarks were a departure from the statement Tuberville issued Saturday in the immediate wake of the attacks…….
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:49 am……….
Polling a one on one race (such as a general election) is different from polling a primary (multi-candidate) race.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:51 amMore importantly: discussing/analyzing the polling of the potential popular vote result is different than polling the Electoral College result.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:57 amNo kidding.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:57 amTrue, but we haven’t reached that stage yet. Neither party has a nominee.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:58 amVery true.
But if we’re going to talk about 2016 then that needs be kept in mind.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:04 pmI don’t think so…….
This is for the masses. You don’t think that the Saudi ruling family actually cares about the Palestinians, do you? They care about their power, about commerce, and about being SEEN as being pan-Islam. But they really don’t care about people. They can, however, be relied upon to act in their interest.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:15 pmIt’s not doomerism, it is the current polling reality.
The wind is blowing from Vichy. Rip’s just the weatherman telling you to get used to it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:17 pmListen to Whembly.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:18 pmit’s just that polling doesn’t account for the Electoral College.
Actually, it does. See https://fivethirtyeight.com
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:18 pm@660
I’m just frustrated with the resignation, that’s all.
It’s worth having a contentious fight as possible… if, for nothing else, forces the leading candidate to feel that blowing wind.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:20 pmNominate Ron DeSantis.
Out by Christmas.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:21 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:03 am
I like your top three.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:21 pmwhembly,
A 2nd Trump term OR a 2nd Biden term is too horrible to contemplate. Once may be worse than the other, but they only differ in the form of the apocalypse. I’d hate to be one of Trump’s protective detail.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:24 pmI like your top three.
Yeah, I’m not real keen on Pence, as the stick up his ass is pretty huge, but he’s got the wit to protect America. Maybe a little inside-the-box.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:26 pmI’m just frustrated with the resignation, that’s all.
He doesn’t have to express any feelings that way, except maybe cynicism. My problem is more that I don’t need to have someone parrot the MSM to me.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:28 pmOk, so this comment made me take a look at Rip’s comments, and…
I gotta say rip is coming off like a Kamala Harris cackling “LOL” instead of communicating a lucid response. I am still not missing anything in blocking rip’s comments.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:28 pm@664 Nominate Ron DeSantis.
Out by Christmas.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:21 pm
Not likely… we’ll see.
My point being is, NOW IS THE TIME TO FIGHT FOR YOUR DESIRED CANDIDATE!
There’s always been a disconnect to the primary polls before Iowa.
Jeb! Bush was LEADING early too, but it was easy to see that his grassroots wasn’t as strong as it should be.
DeSantis (and to certain extent Haley), has shown massive grass root ground game in the early states.
Right now, Trump is riding on his own coat tails being a former President. And yes, it’s pretty dang potent too.
But, I don’t think the other candidates should throw the towel just yet either.
Let’s watch it play out…at least till the beginning of the year.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:30 pmStill, DeSantis? Weak on Ukraine…maybe too aggressive with Mexico. I worry that he’s not guided by wisdom.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:22 am
Ronnie D’s aggressive but in a Special Forces precision targets kind of way. Vivek’s rhetoric and full on contempt for the whole is gonna get a lot of Hindu High School kids get treated like this
urbanleftbehind (f8c2a6) — 10/12/2023 @ 12:43 pmWhat an interesting insight, urban. I like DeSantis’ spunk, but he comes across to me the same as Rick Perry did, in that both Perry and DeSantis always sound like they are speaking off of cards and canned phrases – nothing like the way DeSantis sounds when speaking on state issues to local press.
I think he needs more experience as Governor before more people than Floridians would take him seriously. Ron also needs to loosen up on the national stage and demonstrate confidence by speaking more off-the-cuff.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/12/2023 @ 1:07 pmYeah. I’m with you on that one. I would not be surprised if DeSantis was being guided by political consultants whispering “all this and more could be yours, if only you would bow to…”
Yeah, I creep myself out, sometimes.
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/12/2023 @ 1:12 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 11:51 am
The perception of who are the top two candidates, and the results of previous primary elections, strongly affects who people want to vote for.
Besides opinions changing.
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 1:17 pmNot by 50+ points.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 1:56 pmIt’s not resignation, but just recognition as to what the current political landscape is, not as I wish it to be.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:00 pmFIFY. The only candidate who is not guided by political consultants is Trump, and Republican voters love him for it.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:01 pmI agree. I think DeSantis has trusted too many consultants. If he would have aimed more for the middle and watched how Tim Scott works a crowd, I think he would be competitive with Trump. Hey, this cycle is really tough for non-Trump. DeSantis is young enough and can find other ways to stay relevant…but he sort of lost his sheen. I suspect it’s less about culture war issues…and more about connecting with people personally.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:07 pmInterestingly, Ramaswamy’s name is nowhere in the article, and neither is the religion (or ethnicity) of the victim. A complete non-sequitur.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:11 pmIt all comes down to personality. DeSantis is a control freak, while Scott and Haley are much more outgoing. You either have it or don’t.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:13 pmDeath toll of people with United States citizenship killed raised to 27 with 14 missing.
There may be no confirmed prisoners, or is there one? UAE was trying to arrange exchange of women and children for female prisoners belonging to Hamas in Israeli jails.
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:30 pmTrump just uses any argument that comes in handy to support whatever he wants.
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:31 pmWaiting for the white smoke.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:32 pm677. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:01 pm
Maybe the key word is “guided.” I am sure he takes advice from a variety of people. He’s good at picking between them and double checks what he is told.
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:35 pm218.
The only explanation for this I can think of is that this is what was told to mid-level operatives of terror groups in Dubai and they didn’t realize that so many people were told that it would leak, and those people safe in Dubai were not reminded not to talk about it to foreign reporters.
And it has to parallel the truth although key facts may have been omitted.
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:40 pmNow that is funny! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It certainly doesn’t apply to anything he has been indicted for. He was clearly told by his lawyers that a) he lost the 2020 election and that b) he needed to surrender the classified documents he withheld, yet he believed and acted upon his opposite belief.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:41 pmOpposing Scalise:
More:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:48 pmPart of how Israel messed up:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-security-failure.html
See also:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-attack-gaza.html
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:51 pmI saii Trump double checks what he is told. That doesn’t mean he s=is interested in the truth (merely in what will fly – he also often gives up lies ad drops them. He doesn’t wait.)
Nor does it mean that he always takes the legally safest course of action
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:41 pm
Yes he knew. He was looking for ways to reverse that.
He just didn’t want to do that. He probably consulted different people about how things worked. He decided to hide papers from his lawyers.
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 2:58 pmStill LOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:01 pmHe repeatedly asks different people about the same things. You see it everywhere,
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:04 pmThe only candidate who is not guided by facts is Trump, and Republican voters love him for it.
FIFY
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:13 pmComedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:14 pmThat opposition runs from moderates all the way to hardcore conservatives.
Which on that list are “moderates”? Hint: No one in the HFC is a moderate. No one who favors Jordan is a moderate. I doubt that pro-Putin Jordan can break 150 votes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:16 pmCorrect Formatting:
Comedy Gold!
Rogers wants a favor from the Democrats, but blaming them for “(putting) us in this ditch” by voting against McCarthy as Speaker is not the way to go about it. What does Rogers think that a minority party should do? Bail out the majority for a stupid decision? It is to laugh-the Republicans should be able to figure it out on their own. If Rogers was serious, it should be the Republicans offering concessions first, not the other way around.
The best temporary solution would be to grant the Speaker Pro Tem additional authority to act like the regular Speaker.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:16 pmRight now, Jeffries looks like he has the lead.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:17 pmStill LOL!
Never laugh at insane people. It’s not polite.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:19 pmNo one has to offer McHenry anything. He just has to rule that he has the power and not get 217 votes saying he doesn’t.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:20 pmDepending on the issue, I can see the power grab being rejected by both parties.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:26 pmMcHenry doesn’t seem the type to go beyond what is expected of the Speaker Pro Tem, he appears to be a power minimalist. If MTG was the SPT, she would be a power maximalist.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:28 pmSo, Trump praises Hezbollah. The big friend of Israel said that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:31 pmThe Sun is not shy about posting gruesome photos of Israeli nurseries.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/9306751/israel-hamas-gaza-babies-massacre/
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:32 pmRIP Rudolph Isley (84). Founding member of the Isley Brothers:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:55 pmI imagine Mike Rogers didn’t intend this, but ya know…if 5 GOP members voted present then Jeffries would assumedly be elected Speaker…
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 10/12/2023 @ 3:59 pmParties just don’t have that much power anymore. In years past, a member could be muscled by the Party to vote with the team through threat of bad committee assignment or cutting of campaign funds. I’m not sure that the MTG-Boebert-Gaetz types will be moved by any of it. They fundraise on the internet and will get plenty of FNC face time without doing actual committee work. There’s really no sense of being on one team or doing what’s best for the party.
I can’t pretend to care too deeply…though obviously with Ukraine and Israel funding holding in the balance…we do need some actual leadership. I would cast the most obnoxious of the obstructors out of the caucus. I would probably make a deal with the DEMs to share power in exchange for Scalise. It would probably mean getting rid of the impeachment investigation…but a message has to be sent. At some point, you’re really not with the caucus and it’s truly a minority party. If they don’t blink, then it’s clear what the GOP has to do in 2024.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/12/2023 @ 4:32 pmThe “GOP” won’t do anything-it’s up to their voters. If the House Reps make a deal with the Democrats, all heck will break loose. MAGAWorld will explode and drive Trump to victory.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:10 pmMAGAWorld will explode and drive Trump to victory.
LOL! You really think that the reason Trump lost and the Red Tide was a red dribble is because MAGAWorld had a “get
nk (ad6977) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:26 pmoutthe moonwaffles tovoteexplode” problem?Anyway, the Democrats did not need to dumb themselves down to insentience in order to live with Trump. They still know what’s what and where it’s at. If they make any deals with a potential Republican Speaker it will be only to keep their own loonies from bringing a motion to vacate. Like Jeffries did with AOC. And it will be behind the scenes and not on the Floor.
nk (ad6977) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:31 pmNo, I am saying that if the House Republicans make a deal with Democrats to select a new Speaker, Trump’s voters will be infuriated and feeling betrayed, and work even harder for his reelection.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:32 pmBreaking-
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:37 pmGood for Scalise. He refused to pay for the job with his self-respect.
nk (ad6977) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:41 pmSammy,
you told me this was impossible and the number was zero. Why?
NJRob (565f31) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:43 pmHere comes Mr. Jordan.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:46 pmI think I’m with nk. It looks like it’s Jordan… or trying to persuade the DEMs to power share. For the DEMs, the question is how long to hold out…and can they eventually get Jeffries by exhausting the process.
The other question is whether Jordan’s Ukraine policy makes him a non-starter with too many. I would set a clock on it…publicly….and then deal. I doubt that a civil war in the GOP will work in Trump’s favor. It just shows dysfunction….and Trump just offers more of it. The 40% normals will not work harder for a Jordan-Trump agenda.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:53 pmI think it’s more likely that the Republicans need to be persuaded to share power with the Democrats, not the other way around; Republicans will be required to make concessions. I also disagree that a GOP Civil War (the metaphorical kind) doesn’t work in Trump’s favor, he feeds on chaos. For the time being, the best solution is a short term Speaker McHenry.
Too bad the 40% normals aren’t a majority.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:05 pmAnd I don’t think Jordan can find 217 votes to become Speaker either. It’s a stalemate.
Rip Murdock (fbcaa5) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:10 pmLeft-leaning Republicans need to grow up or quit the party. But spouting hatred towards a strong Republican leader like Jordan is bound to lead to failure.
The mood of the public isn’t on the side of leftists.
NJRob (565f31) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:20 pmIt’s Trump f^cking them around.
nk (ad6977) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:21 pmYikes! Imagine if just enough RINOs switch party affiliation? Welcome back Nancy!
felipe (9bcc73) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:24 pmThe mood of the public is mercurial. I remember when I thought hillbillies were cute.
nk (ad6977) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:25 pm3 israel IDF officers knew hamas was about to attack ;but were overruled! (axios)
asset (36a3de) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:50 pmDemocrats need only five “left leaning” Republicans to do so. And it would be Hakeem Jeffries, not Nancy Pelosi, who would become Speaker.
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 10/12/2023 @ 6:53 pmIf all the “left leaning” Republicans moved to the Democratic side of the aisle, the House Republican caucus really would be a minority party.
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 10/12/2023 @ 7:00 pmI am no theologian, but this seems odd, perhaps even sinful, to me:
Still, I have to admit that he got what he was praying for. (The nation is worse off for that success. Which doesn’t seem conservative to me.)
(FWIW, Rosendale appears to be Catholic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Rosendale Perhaps the Pope should have a word with him.)
Jim Miller (ea859e) — 10/12/2023 @ 7:02 pmExpect to hear more about Jim Jordan’s time as an assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State, soon:
Given the numbers, and the consistency of their testimony, I am inclined to believe the wrestlers.
Jim Miller (ea859e) — 10/12/2023 @ 7:10 pmIt’s nice to know prayers are answered.
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 10/12/2023 @ 7:24 pmMay be the House Judiciary Committee should investigate.
Oh wait………
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 10/12/2023 @ 7:26 pmFelipe,
it’s plain as day that the far left runs the leftist party. So if they prefer leftism I’d rather they leave and let real conservatives offer an alternative.
We see plenty of chatter of kicking the freedom caucus out by the chattering classes.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/12/2023 @ 8:52 pm@730 Its not what you prefer. Its what the corporate establishment and deep state that runs this country prefer. Ask bernie sanders about the what the establishment did to him! They didn’t think clinton would lose in 2016 so they didn’t crush trump (then) as the prefer the steel fist inside the velvet glove. Your lucky they fear us on the left a lot more then they fear the right.
asset (36a3de) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:00 pmThe “GOP” won’t do anything-it’s up to their voters. If the House Reps make a deal with the Democrats, all heck will break loose.
As it stands, the House GOP is a dumpster fire. Who would vote for this crap even without Trump. They’re going to lose 50 seats in 2024 the way this is going. They will probably win some Senate seats.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:25 pmTrump’s voters will be infuriated and feeling betrayed, and work even harder for his reelection.
The party is close to splitting now. Trump’s nomination, dragging 7 felony convictions behind him like cans on a cat (“a badge of honor”) will be the last straw.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:29 pmHere comes Mr. Jordan.
Jordan will never be speaker, nor will any member of the HFC. The moment that the GOP has some slack (and this could be after losing the House) they will make some people pay.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:30 pmLeft-leaning Republicans need to grow up or quit the party.
People to the left of the HFC are not “left-leaning” they just aren’t &^%*ing dips*^&%s.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:32 pmNot that anyone really cares, but:
Huh
BuDuh (4214e4) — 10/13/2023 @ 1:26 amI guessed that from the start, BuDuh, and said so here a couple of weeks ago.
But it was not only anti-Trump “nyah-nyahers” who promulgated the libel. Letitia James lied through her teeth when she said the New York statute granted a right to jury trial in response to Trump’s complaint that it did not.
nk (094227) — 10/13/2023 @ 5:14 am@715
It’s doubtful that he has the vote too.
The malcontents are burning some serious bridges.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/13/2023 @ 6:16 amSorry you didn’t get the pun.
Here Comes Mr. Jordan was a 1941 film starring Robert Montgomery as a boxer mistakenly taken to Heaven before his time, is given a second chance back on Earth.
It was remade as Heaven Can Wait (the original title) in 1978 with Warren Beatty, Buck Henry, and Julie Christie.
I noted that Jordan probably didn’t have the votes in post 718.
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 10/13/2023 @ 6:51 amRip,
How many folks are going to get a reference to a 1941 movie? (Wizard of Oz and Gone With the Wind don’t count since they are 1939.)
Well if the Trumpers get control, Rip, I hope they don’t hang you, precious, by that sweet neck.
Appalled (03f53c) — 10/13/2023 @ 7:05 amDC whatever would have got it. Lack of knowledge of our cultural history is not my problem. It’s a fairly famous film.
People here take some stuff way too seriously.
I have no idea why you predicted that Trumpers would hang me, that was certainly uncalled for.
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 10/13/2023 @ 7:15 amI have no idea why you predicted that Trumpers would hang me, that was certainly uncalled for.
The Maltese Falcon (1941).
nk (689770) — 10/13/2023 @ 7:36 amWait, that Chris Rock movie is a remake? Dayam.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/13/2023 @ 7:47 amSam Spade: “When you’re slapped, you’ll take it and like it.”
Wilmer Cook: Keep askin’ for it and you’re gonna to get it – plenty. I told you to shove off. Shove off.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/13/2023 @ 7:53 amSam Spade: People lose teeth talking like that. If you want to hang around, you’ll be polite.
The Maltese Falcon mentioned Trumpers? Who knew!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2023 @ 8:37 amIt’s obvious we need a new Weekend Open Thread, as everyone has run out of things to say here.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2023 @ 8:39 amCorrection:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2023 @ 8:40 amI guessed that from the start, BuDuh, and said so here a couple of weeks ago.
I still don’t think the “equitable relief” assertion is correct as the penalties are astronomical and quite punitive.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:14 am#741
Did you mean to make my point for me?
Appalled (8228cf) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:14 amThe malcontents are burning some serious bridges.
For all intents and purposes, they have resigned from the GOP. There’s only so much lipstick you can put on this pig. At some point soon, they’ll be ejected from the Caucus and then a coalition will have to be formed.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:16 amCitizen Kane FTW.
(Although I prefer the thing that dreams are made of)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:19 amNo, I was just appalled at your comment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:20 amLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:21 amNot as long as they are backed by Trump. Republican “moderates” will be afraid of being primaried by MAGA candidates.
And who would the coalition be with-certainly not between Republicans and Democrats.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:28 amSam G (8d2ed1) — 10/12/2023 @ 10:37 am
Informally.
Several newspapers report that,
Sammy Finkelman (d3a0ef) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:39 amNJRob (565f31) — 10/12/2023 @ 5:43 pm
Sammy Finkelman (d3a0ef) — 10/13/2023 @ 9:49 amSponsors of terrorists also don’t want to be bombed, And Mexican smugglers know they will be held to blame if they help in anyway. This
Sammy Finkelman (d3a0ef) — 10/13/2023 @ 10:00 amis the thing informants would most want o inform about to protect themselves from prosecution, The FBI once ran a sting operation against Iran using a Mexican drug informer and they got iran to agree to let an attack go ahead even if it killed 100 people in a Washington, D.C. restaurant just in order to kill the then Saudi ambassador. By the way, using (imaginary) Mexicans killers meant they then had no network inside the United States.
New open thread
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/13/2023 @ 10:16 amNot as long as they are backed by Trump. Republican “moderates” will be afraid of being primaried by MAGA candidates.
They will be anyway.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/13/2023 @ 10:17 amsteveg (ce3cfa) — 10/8/2023 @ 2:50 pm
Iran will find out quickly if that’s the truth or not. Saudi Arabia is making a rapprochement with Iran They possibly expect an attack on Iran and don’t want to get attacked in return.
As far stopping the Israel-Saudi rapprochement, the terrorist attacks have succeeded, and that is a lesson for anyone who in the future proposes any kind of peace agreement.
Only a military alliance between Israel and its enemies is possible, nothing less.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2023 @ 12:56 pmComedy Gold! 🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2023 @ 12:59 pmhttp://haemtza.blogspot.com/
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 10/15/2023 @ 7:27 am