Patterico's Pontifications

Good morning.

Dana (4020dd) — 9/1/2023 @ 8:44 am

Thank you for this Dana, even if the news is so often disturbing.

Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/1/2023 @ 8:47 am

Re: Cameras in the courtroom:

In general, this is a good idea. According to Judge McAfee, the court will control the camera(s), so jurors would presumably not be shown (given the inevitable threats they will probably be anonymous) and there won’t be any reaction shots of President Mugshot scowling during testimony or of the audience. It won’t be like this.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:10 am

Cameras in the courtroom are the basic requirement of an open trial in the 21st century. The idea that seating for a few dozen people suffices is so 18th century. The idea that the news media will cover things fairly, adequately or intelligently ignores nearly everything we know about the news media.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:35 am

Not that cameras will be all that important — I watched nearly all of the Bork confirmation hearings back in the 80s (an excellent survey course of issues in ConLaw), then read what the papers said the next day. Very little similarity. And of course, the paid ads were atrocious.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:38 am

Cold:

……….
Appearing on Thursday’s edition of The Story on Fox News, Haley offered her reaction.

“It’s sad,” she said. “No one should feel good about seeing that any more than we should feel good about seeing Dianne Feinstein, any more than we should feel good about a lot of what’s happening or seeing Joe Biden’s decline. What I will say is, right now the Senate is the most privileged nursing home in the country. I mean, Mitch McConnell has done some great things and he deserves credit. But you have to know when to leave.”
……….
“That is why I’m strongly in support of term limits in this country,” she continued. “I think that we do need mental competency tests for anyone over the age of 75. ……..

She concluded, “We need to start getting new faces, new voices, younger generations involved in our government. And we need to have everybody else understand when it’s time to go.”

Running on the issue that old people are mentally incompetent until proven otherwise is not a good strategy for attracting votes of seniors, the group of voters most likely to vote and vote Republican.

Older voters turned out more reliably in both elections – and continued to be largely loyal to Republican candidates. For example, among adults ages 69 and older in 2022 (i.e., those who were 65 or older in 2018), 35% reported voting for Republicans in both 2018 and 2022. This compares with 28% who voted for Democrats in both elections. Another 18% of this group did not vote in either election.

The way you get new faces and voices is by voting for them, not by arbitrarily booting older people out.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:39 am

……..The idea that the news media will cover things fairly, adequately or intelligently ignores nearly everything we know about the news media.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:35 am

Of course the media will edit the proceedings for broadcast including only the most salacious testimony, where most people will find their news.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:43 am

It should be pointed out in the Covid-joke case that the 5th Circuit revoked the qualified immunity of the police officers — they should have known better — making them (or at least their boss) liable for damages.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:44 am

Of course the media will edit the proceedings for broadcast including only the most salacious testimony, where most people will find their news.

Indeed, but it will also be live-streamed so some will see the whole thing and bloggers will fact-check the media (and each other).

No matter what you do, not everyone is interested in finding things out for themselves. Some will get their info from slanted sources, whether from Fox or Comedy Central.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:47 am

The way you get new faces and voices is by voting for them, not by arbitrarily booting older people out.

Inertia is a thing. Tell me again why there is no water most years in California and why gas is a dollar extra.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:49 am

In order for Ukraine to prevail, it must have a military success that comes by surprise, not only for Russia, but also for the United States.

This is because President Biden is unlikely to authorize delivery if Ukraine could maybe “win” by it, as opposed to preventing a Ukrainian loss.

But Putin will not choose use of nuclear weapons over stopping the war, because, for one thing, use of nuclear weapons is very dangerous for Russia (not to mention poisoning the air Putin and people close to him will breathe) and the consequences very unpredictable but not likely inn any case to help him.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:51 am

Re: Fourth news item–

………..
(S)even neurologists, relying on what they described as unusually revealing video of Mr. McConnell freezing up in public twice recently, said in interviews Thursday and Friday that the episodes captured in real time likely pointed to more serious medical problems afflicting the longtime Republican leader.

Some of the neurologists, while cautioning that they could not diagnose the minority leader from afar, said that the letter and other comments from Mr. McConnell’s office appeared to fall short of explaining why he abruptly stopped speaking during news conferences in late July and again on Wednesday.

“If I gave that tape to a medical student and that was his explanation, I’d fail him,” said Dr. Orrin Devinsky, a professor of neurology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine, referring to the account given by the attending physician of Congress on Thursday. “Medically, these episodes need to be taken seriously.”

……….While several possibilities were suggested, including mini-strokes, doctors said that the spells appeared most consistent with focal seizures, which are electrical surges in one region of the brain.
………
After watching Mr. McConnell’s symptoms play out — his abrupt stop in speech, his eyes fixed in the distance, his seeming recovery after about 30 seconds — (Dr. Anthony Kim, a professor of neurology at the University of California, San Francisco) said that “the possibility at the top of my list would be a seizure.”
……….
Focal seizures, on the other hand, are often triggered by an irregularity in one specific part of the brain, creating what doctors refer to as stereotypic symptoms. They are known to stop patients dead in their tracks, seeming to cut them off from their surroundings.

Patients can often respond reflexively to questions during such an episode — as Mr. McConnell did on Wednesday, saying “yeah” when asked if he had heard a reporter’s question — even if they appear unable to voice their thoughts or engage with their environment.
………
“Two seizures you definitely would want to treat,” said Dr. Sami Khella, the chief of neurology at Penn Presbyterian Medical Center. “You don’t want them to happen — they’re not good for you.”
………
……… “The more the brain seizes, the more it learns to seize,” Dr. Khella said.
………
But neurologists agreed that suggestions that Mr. McConnell was merely lightheaded, while possible, were difficult to square with the video. ……..
………

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:53 am

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/09/peter-schweizer-call-your-office.php

Today [August 30], America First Legal (AFL) released three more tranches of emails (Productions 5, 6, and 7) from the National Archives in response to AFL’s request and lawsuit for records from Joe Biden’s time as Vice President in the Obama Administration and Hunter Biden’s corrupt foreign business dealings.

The latest documents reveal a staggering number of emails between Rosemont Seneca and the Office of the Vice President, revealing further evidence that there was no separation between Hunter’s private business dealings and the official business of the Obama-Biden White House. Rosemont Seneca frequently used the Biden name to gain access to and favors from the White House.

The documents also reveal further evidence of Hunter’s influence in the official Office of the Vice President. Hunter had the ability to direct correspondence, plan guest lists for State dinners and receptions, and bring people into the White House at his discretion. This evidence further calls into question Joe Biden’s claims that he was never involved with, never discussed, and did not know about Hunter’s business dealings, and it raises questions as to the propriety of the massive payments Hunter was receiving while he was commanding such influence in the Office of the Vice President.

Biden lied and continues to lie.

Peter has answered my call: “The assertion of ‘executive privilege’—that he was communicating with Hunter and Hunter’s business partners in an official capacity—proves the point that VP Joe Biden WAS in business with Hunter.”

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:56 am

https://jonathanturley.org/2023/08/29/raffensperger-and-meadows-testify-in-key-hearing-in-federal-court-on-georgia-allegations/

Despite the recent attack in the Washington Post, it is not the merits of Trump’s claims but the use of the call as a criminal act that drew my criticism. The call was misrepresented by the Post and the transcript later showed that Trump was not simply demanding that votes be added to the count but rather asking for another recount or continued investigation. Again, I disagreed with that position but the words about the finding of 11,780 votes was in reference to what he was seeking in a continued investigation. Critics were enraged by the suggestion that Trump was making the case for a recount as opposed to just demanding the addition of votes to the tally or fraudulent findings.

Raffensperger described the call in the same terms. He correctly described the call as “extraordinary” in a president personally seeking such an investigation, particularly after the completion of the earlier recount. That is manifestly true. However, he also acknowledged that this was a “settlement negotiation.”

So what was the subject of the settlement talks? Another recount or further investigation. The very thing that critics this week were apoplectic about in the coverage. That does not mean that Trump had grounds for the demand. Trump’s participation in the call was extraordinary and his demands were equally so. However, the reference to the vote deficit in demanding continued investigation was a predictable argument in such a settlement negotiation. As I previously stated, I have covered such challenges for years as a legal analyst for CBS, NBC, BBC, and Fox. Unsupported legal claims may be sanctionable in court, but they have not been treated as crimes.

The question is whether engaging in such arguments in a settlement discussion is a criminal act. This was a settlement call with lawyers on why officials should reexamine the votes and allegations of wrongdoing. While pundits continue to bizarrely stress that that the word “recount” was not used, the transcript shows that Trump was still arguing for an additional recount or investigation as these officials explained that it would not help or produce any different outcome. They were right.

Would’ve thought Raffensperger’s testimony would’ve been huge news on here. Guess not.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/1/2023 @ 10:06 am

‘I was doing my job’:

Larry Taylor will become the newest recipient of the military’s highest award for valor in battle when President Joe Biden presents the Vietnam veteran with the Medal of Honor on Tuesday, more than 55 years after his heroic actions in combat.

Taylor, who retired as a captain, was an Army helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War and led a rescue mission in 1968 to save a small group of soldiers trapped in a rice field by enemy troops.

“I was doing my job. I knew that if I did not go down and get them, they would not make it,” said Taylor, now 81 and living in Tennessee.

David Hill, now 75, was a sergeant with the Army Rangers serving as part of a four-man reconnaissance unit on June 18, 1968. He said Monday that if it wasn’t for Taylor’s actions that day, he and the three other men would not have lived.
……..
Hill’s unit was on a night mission near a village northeast of Saigon when they were surrounded in a rice paddy by a North Vietnamese force. The unit leader could see using a starlight scope that enemy troops were closing in on three sides. But they thought the Vietnamese troops had not surrounded them yet and they could escape back in the direction that they entered the paddy.
………
“We were in a Custer-like situation,” he said.

Taylor, who was a first lieutenant at the time, got a call on the radio about a four-man unit in trouble. He and another pilot each took a Cobra helicopter and went out looking for the team. ……..

…….Taylor and his wingman strafed the North Vietnamese positions with multi-barreled rotary machine guns and rockets.

For nearly 30 minutes, the two American helicopters attacked the enemy troops, expending all their rockets and nearly 16,000 machine-gun rounds.

At that point, Taylor directed the other helicopter pilot to fire his remaining machine gun rounds along the eastern flank of the American patrol and then return to base camp. Taylor fired his own remaining rounds along the unit’s western flank, using his Cobra’s landing lights to draw the enemy’s attention while the U.S. soldiers moved southeast toward a nearby extraction point that Taylor had designated.
………
There wasn’t time or room in the helicopter for the four soldiers to get inside the two-seat Cobra. When Taylor moved the helicopter into a close position, the soldiers grabbed onto the rocket-pods and skids.
………
Taylor served in Vietnam from August 1967 to August 1968. With the 1st Squadron, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division, he flew more than 2,000 combat missions in the UH-1 and Cobra helicopters. He concluded his military service in 1971 as a captain in the 2nd Armored Cavalry in what was West Germany at the time.

Taylor was awarded 61 combat decorations, including the Silver Star, 43 Air Medals, a Bronze Star and two Distinguished Flying Crosses. He also received the Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross with the Bronze Star.

Hill started a seven-and-a-half-year process serving as Taylor’s nominator to get his Silver Star upgraded to the Medal of Honor. Hill and a couple of his fellow Army Rangers believed the Army and Taylor’s commanders at the time had failed in not getting him the highest military honor. They felt it was an injustice.
………..

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 10:20 am

cameras make people behave differently than they normally would… Thoughts?

Outright lies about the proceedings are easier to rebut with video. Sunlight is Trump’s worst enemy. Maybe also garlic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 10:56 am

Interesting factoid:

Senior U.S. District Judge David A. Ezra, who ruled against the Texas porn access law, is also the judge hearing the Justice Department’s lawsuit against Texas seeking to remove the State’s buoy barrier in the Rio Grande.

………
………Ezra signaled that he would not be receptive to one of Texas’ most critical arguments—that the U.S. Constitution affords it the right to defend its sovereignty amidst a foreign “invasion.”

“We are here for the purposes of determining whether this is a barrier to navigation, whether this is a navigable waterway,” Ezra said.

Ezra’s comments, suggests the Dallas Morning Daily News, indicate that any eventual ruling will most likely be limited in scope, insofar as he will not attempt to define the extent of individual states’ immigration enforcement rights.
……….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 10:59 am

The craftsman-styled renderings are simply beautiful.

Perhaps you have a different definition of “Craftsman” than I do. I see Mediterranean and French Provincial and some that are too hard to define, but nothing like the several Craftsman homes I’ve lived in.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:04 am

When Trump said, “All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state,” he was basically saying “I just want to overturn the Georgia election”.
Trump wasn’t asking for a recount or an investigation, he wanted Raffensperger to conjure up enough votes to reverse the result.
Spinning it any other way is dishonest on Turley’s part.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:37 am

The dismemberment of the “Conference of Champions” is now complete:

……….
The Atlantic Coast Conference presidents and chancellors met Friday morning and voted to add three schools — Stanford, Cal and SMU, the conference announced. It will bring the league to 18 members — 17 will play football full time in the league. The additions are in all sports and will begin in the 2024-25 school year.
……….
“We are thrilled to welcome three world-class institutions to the ACC, and we look forward to having them compete as part of our amazing league,” Phillips said in a statement. “Throughout the evaluation process, the ACC Board of Directors, led by [University of Virginia] President [James] Ryan, was deliberate in prioritizing the best possible athletic and academic experience for our student-athletes and in ensuring that the three universities would strengthen the league in all possible ways. Cal, SMU and Stanford will be terrific members of the ACC and we are proud to welcome their student-athletes, coaches, staff and entire campus community, alumni and fans.”

………. Heading into the meeting Friday morning, it was uncertain whether the league had votes, a significant variance from how conference expansion typically works.

In a straw poll more than three weeks ago, four ACC schools dissented — Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and NC State. One of them needed to flip for the vote to pass, and all eyes were on NC State chancellor Randy Woodson going into the meeting.

It was a 12-3 vote Friday with NC State flipping, multiple sources confirmed to ESPN’s Andrea Adelson.
……..
Florida State voted no on Friday.
……..
Cal, Stanford and SMU will come at a significant discount, which will help create a revenue pool to be shared among ACC members. SMU is expected to come in for nine years with no broadcast media revenue, sources told ESPN, and Cal and Stanford will each start out receiving just a 30% share of ACC payouts.

That money being withheld is expected to create an annual pot of revenue between $50 million and $60 million. Some of the revenue will be divided proportionally among the 14 full-time members and Notre Dame, and another portion will be put in a pool designated for success initiatives that rewards programs that win.

For Stanford and Cal, it will be 30% of a whole ACC share for the next seven years. That number will jump to 70% in Year 8, 75% in Year 9 and then full financial shares in the 10th year, per sources.

The move delivers a life preserver to the athletic departments at Stanford and Cal, which were left twisting amid the Pac-12’s implosion. Stanford has an athletic department that is considered the gold standard in college athletics. Both will face increased travel costs, which will significantly impact a Cal athletic department that faces hundreds of millions in debt.
……….
For SMU, the decision to forgo television revenue gave it a seat in a major conference, and the school will lean on its wealthy boosters to help it stay afloat until revenue comes in. It marks a significant moment for the school’s climb back from the death penalty for major infractions that led to the school not playing football in 1987 and 1988. SMU didn’t return to a bowl until 2009 after the penalties.
……….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:46 am

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:46 am

Except for Washington State and Oregon State.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:49 am

Perhaps you have a different definition of “Craftsman” than I do. I see Mediterranean and French Provincial and some that are too hard to define, but nothing like the several Craftsman homes I’ve lived in.

And I see an urbanist’s dream of tightly-crowded houses with minimal lawns abutting small community parks, a la New York and San Francisco. At first when I read this item from Dana I thought the billionaires were building their own community of mega-mansions (and my reaction was, really, in Solano County?) but now that I know that this is a business venture and they are aiming it at middle-class (well, upper-middle-class) families, I’m now in favor of it. And John Garamendi can go kick rocks if he doesn’t like it.

JVW (1ad43e) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:50 am

JVW (1ad43e) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:50 am

As long as it is gated.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:53 am

Since this is one of my hobby-horses, allow me to strongly recommend the excellent one-hour PBS documentary on the Presidency of Calvin Coolidge. I enjoyed it tremendously, and many of the quotes they discuss are the same ones I flagged in my tribute to him. I urge everyone to take an hour to view it; it’s available on-demand from PBS and the PBS app.

JVW (1ad43e) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:59 am

As long as it is gated.

With gates locking from the inside or the outside?

JVW (1ad43e) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:00 pm

Inside to keep the riff raff out. 😉

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:01 pm

The craftsman-styled renderings are simply beautiful.

Perhaps you have a different definition of “Craftsman” than I do. I see Mediterranean and French Provincial and some that are too hard to define, but nothing like the several Craftsman homes I’ve lived in.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:04 am

I didn’t say the houses were Craftsman style – they aren’t. However the art work on the renderings is done in craftsman-style. The colors, tones, lighting and stylized look of them.

Dana (34abe2) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:16 pm

Paul,

so you are calling Raffensperger a liar. Good to know.

NJRob (65233e) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:17 pm

I’ve added a clarification on the post re the artwork.

Dana (34abe2) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:19 pm

@19

When Trump said, “All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state,” he was basically saying “I just want to overturn the Georgia election”.
Trump wasn’t asking for a recount or an investigation, he wanted Raffensperger to conjure up enough votes to reverse the result.
Spinning it any other way is dishonest on Turley’s part.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:37 am

No, the dishonesty is on your part Paul.

See, this is part of the reason why Trump is seen as a martyr by some of his supporters.

Your own bias is creating this narrative that Trump was asking the GA SoS to create new Trump votes out of think air.

Trump said “I just want to find 11,780…”

…find…

As in, find Trump votes, that already existed.

That’s the only way to understand it in context.

That’s not the same as ” overturn the Georgia election” by wanting “Raffensperger to conjure up enough votes to reverse the result”

Why can’t you simply stick with the more obvious Trump maladministrations…. there’s plenty to choose from without making other batguano narratives.

whembly (5f7596) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:30 pm

Trump said “I just want to find 11,780…”

whembly (5f7596) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:30 pm

Now add some context. Trump has acted like a mafioso his whole life. When a mafia guy says, “That’s a nice business you have there. It would be a shame if anything happened to it”, he’s not expressing concern for the business.

norcal (be48c9) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:40 pm

It would be a shame if anything happened to it”

That is the “or else” part of the mafioso “do this or else.”

What was the “or else” part of Trump’s request?

BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:45 pm

Capitol Physician Medically Clears Bowl Of Jell-O To Serve In Senate

BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:48 pm

What was the “or else” part of Trump’s request?

BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:45 pm

Ask any number of people who’ve had Trump’s cult sicced on them.

norcal (be48c9) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:51 pm

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.”

norcal (be48c9) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:55 pm

Maybe you misunderstood my very short and simple question. I’ll add a bit.

What part of the call, from which you quoted “ “I just want to find 11,780…”,” was the “or else” threat?

BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:58 pm

Mafiosos aren’t dumb enough to spell it out, BuDuh.

Did Trump tell Mike Pence that the mob was going to lynch him if he didn’t overturn the election? No. Was Trump hoping the mob he fomented would scare Pence to act against the Constitution? You bet he did.

It is obtuse to think otherwise.

norcal (be48c9) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:04 pm

Atlantic Coast Conference

SMDH

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:07 pm

So there is nothing in the call that equates to your claim. Kind of a waste of a post, norcal.

It sounded like you really had the goods there for a moment.

BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:09 pm

As long as it is gated.

In Solano Country? From whom? And I guess they’ll need some BART extensions — it’s a bit of a drive into Milpitas and such.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:11 pm

I thought you were taking your Trump troll act elsewhere, BuDuh. Are you not a man of your word?

norcal (be48c9) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:12 pm

BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/1/2023 @ 12:58 pm

What part of the call, from which you quoted “ “I just want to find 11,780…”,” was the “or else” threat?

There was none there, which is why Donald Trump called it a “perfect” call, but in the course of the conversation, he did say that if Raffensperger did not change the result, he could be prosecuted for complicity in vote fraud. (this was from the point of view that there had really been massive fraud. He didn’t say he would do it, but talked as if this was something that could hapen naturally)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html

Of course, this was an empty threat, since it wasn’t true that the election in Georgia had been stolen from him, and even a politically malicious prosecution depended on Trump getting another term (since nothing was going to happen in the next 17 days) and Georgia alone couldn’t do that.

Here is what he said:

Now the problem is they need more time for the big numbers. But they’re very substantial numbers. But I think you’re going to find that they — by the way, a little information, I think you’re going to find that they are shredding ballots because they have to get rid of the ballots because the ballots are unsigned. The ballots are corrupt, and they’re brand new and they don’t have a seal and there’s the whole thing with the ballots. But the ballots are corrupt.

And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I’ve heard. And they are removing machinery and they’re moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal finds. And you can’t let it happen and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I’m notifying you that you’re letting it happen. So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.

And flipping the state is a great testament to our country because, cause you know, this is — it’s a testament that they can admit to a mistake or whatever you want to call it. If it was a mistake, I don’t know. A lot of people think it wasn’t a mistake. It was much more criminal than that. But it’s a big problem in Georgia and it’s not a problem that’s going away. I mean, you know, it’s not a problem that’s going away.

Now Trump misspoke, in saying find votes – he meant remove votes or he meant find illegally cast votes hat somehow you could determine were for Biden. Trump said he only needed to find a little fraud, not all of the fraud he claimed had taken place.

In all this he stayed in character, never acknowledging that he was asking Raffensperger to certify wrong results – just the opposite.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:14 pm

Atlantic Coast Conference

SMDH

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:07 pm

Traveling to the east coast for virtually half of their games is going to take a toll on the sports teams of Cal and Stanford. That’s brutal.

norcal (be48c9) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:17 pm

Predictions: the same people who complain about the high cost of housing will try to block this development, as it is not low-cost housing.

As if economics works that way.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:18 pm

I bet you there are a lot of lesser Division I teams on the West Coast that would like to be in a west coast league with Oregon State and Washington State. Who gets the Rose Bowl?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:20 pm

We saw the “or else” in the 2022 elections when Weewee the Limp primaried Kemp and Raffensperger.

nk (053a46) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:20 pm

In the back of my mind is the thought that, 20 years from now, the conspiracy behind the actual Rigged Election of 2020 will be found out.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:27 pm

so you are calling Raffensperger a liar. Good to know.

Raffensperger can spin it any way he wants, just like Turley, but the transcript speaks for itself. I won’t have some other person tell me not to believe what was actually said in a verbatim transcript.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:28 pm

Full Transcript and Audio of the call between Trump and Raffensperger:

………
TRUMP: Okay, thank you very much. Hello Brad and Ryan and everybody. We appreciate the time and the call. So we’ve spent a lot of time on this, and if we could just go over some of the numbers, I think it’s pretty clear that we won. We won very substantially in Georgia. You even see it by rally size, frankly. We’d be getting 25-30,000 people a rally, and the competition would get less than 100 people. And it never made sense.
………
………We’re going to have an accurate number over the next two days with certified accountants. But an accurate number will be given, but it’s in the 50s of thousands — and that’s people that went to vote and they were told they can’t vote because they’ve already been voted for. And it’s a very sad thing. They walked out complaining. But the number’s large. We’ll have it for you. But it’s much more than the number of 11,779 that’s — the current margin is only 11,779. Brad (Raffensperger), I think you agree with that, right? That’s something I think everyone — at least that’s a number that everyone agrees on.

But that’s the difference in the votes. But we’ve had hundreds of thousands of ballots that we’re able to actually — we’ll get you a pretty accurate number. You don’t need much of a number because the number that in theory I lost by, the margin would be 11,779. But you also have a substantial numbers of people, thousands and thousands, who went to the voting place on November 3, were told they couldn’t vote, were told they couldn’t vote because a ballot had been put on their name. And you know that’s very, very, very, very sad.
……….
………. So there were many infractions, and the bottom line is, many, many times the 11,779 margin that they said we lost by — we had vast, I mean the state is in turmoil over this.
……….
Ballots were dropped in massive numbers. And we’re trying to get to those numbers and we will have them.

They’ll take a period of time. Certified. But but they’re massive numbers. And far greater than the 11,779.
………
So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.

And flipping the state is a great testament to our country because, you know, this is — it’s a testament that they can admit to a mistake or whatever you want to call it. If it was a mistake, I don’t know. A lot of people think it wasn’t a mistake. …….
……….
Well, you better check on the ballots because they are shredding ballots, Ryan. I’m just telling you, Ryan (Germany, Raffensberger’s general counsel). They’re shredding ballots. And you should look at that very carefully. Because that’s so illegal. You know, you may not even believe it because it’s so bad. But they’re shredding ballots because they think we’re going to eventually get there . . . because we’ll eventually get into Fulton. In my opinion, it’s never too late. . . . So, that’s the story. Look, we need only 11,000 votes.
………..
So what are we going to do here, folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break.
………..
RYAN GERMANY: Well, that’s not the case, sir. There are things that you guys are entitled to get. And there’s things that under law, we are not allowed to give out.

TRUMP: Well, you have to. Well, under law, you’re not allowed to give faulty election results, okay? You’re not allowed to do that. And that’s what you done. This is a faulty election result……..
………
MARK MEADOWS: Mr. President, this is Mark. It sounds like we’ve got two different sides agreeing that we can look at those areas, and I assume that we can do that within the next 24 to 48 hours, to go ahead and get that reconciled so that we can look at the two claims and making sure that we get the access to the secretary of state’s data to either validate or invalidate the claims that have been made. Is that correct?

RYAN GERMANY: No, that’s not what I said. I’m happy to have our lawyers sit down with Kurt and the lawyers on that side and explain to him, hey, here’s, based on what we’ve looked at so far, here’s how we know this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong.

MARK MEADOWS: So what you’re saying, Ryan, let me let me make sure . . . so what you’re saying is you really don’t want to give access to the data. You just want to make another case on why the lawsuit is wrong?

RYAN GERMANY: I don’t think we can give access to data that’s protected by law. But we can sit down with them and say —

TRUMP: But you’re allowed to have a phony election? You’re allowed to have a phony election, right?
…………

My emphasis.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:38 pm

As long as it is gated.

In Solano Country? From whom? And I guess they’ll need some BART extensions — it’s a bit of a drive into Milpitas and such.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:11 pm

From the hoi polloi.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:41 pm

No, the dishonesty is on your part Paul.

Two words: Bull and sh-t.
The transcript speaks for itself, whembly. There was no other reason for the call but for Trump to suborn electoral fraud. Trump was exactly telling Raffensperger to come up with enough votes to reverse the result. And let’s not forget his veiled threat if he doesn’t get his way…

And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I’ve heard. And they are removing machinery and they’re moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal finds. And you can’t let it happen and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I’m notifying you that you’re letting it happen.

The guy was being an asshole, a bully and a liar, and it’s all right there on the printed page.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:41 pm

Gotta love the sheer hypocrisy of Democrat Governors where immigration is concerned:

After the Biden administration teased the idea of relocating New York City migrants to the Atlantic City International Airport in New Jersey, the state’s Democratic governor has come out and publicly refused to cooperate.

“I don’t see any scenario where we’re gonna be able to take in a program in Atlantic City or, frankly, elsewhere in the state,” Governor Phil Murphy said during his appearance on News 12 New Jersey on Thursday night. “We are already seeing folks in New Jersey that have probably swelled into New Jersey from New York or other locations, but you need scale, an enormous amount of federal support, resources that go beyond anything we can afford.”

“Putting everything else aside, I just don’t see it. I would suspect that’ll continue to be the case.”

Murphy’s comments are a remarkable about-face given his contemplation of turning New Jersey into a “sanctuary” state during the 2017 gubernatorial race against lieutenant governor Kim Guadagno .

“Donald Trump and Chris Christie have shown us that elections have consequences, and that the most effective tactic to push back to reject the politics of division and fear mongering is to use the ballot box,” Murphy, who previously served as American ambassador to Germany in the Obama administration, told Politico at the time.

At the time, Murphy sought to distinguish himself from then-President Donald Trump and his rhetoric on illegal immigration. “We’ll be a sanctuary – not just city – but state,” then-Democratic candidate Murphy said in a New Jersey gubernatorial debate.

But hey, what is lofty campaign rhetoric when real-world problems arrive on your doorstep:

Murphy, too, sought to underscore the nation’s responsibility to “humanely secure our borders.” “We’ve always been a nation of immigrants, but that doesn’t mean it can be the Wild West,” the former Goldman Sachs executive said.

I think we’re going to look back at the decision of border state governors to ship illegal immigrants up to Northeastern states as an absolute stroke of political genius. It sure has forced Democrat governors to reckon with their alleged ideals; I mean, who would have thought that a Wall Street Democrat would be on the “secure the borders” train so quickly? It’s a shame this clown wasn’t booted out of office back in 2021.

JVW (1ad43e) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:42 pm

norcal (be48c9) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:04 pm

Did Trump tell Mike Pence that the mob was going to lynch him if he didn’t overturn the election? No. Was Trump hoping the mob he fomented would scare Pence to act against the Constitution? You bet he did.

Trump never expected violence

Jack Smith has a little problem. In the August 1 indictment he said that Trump suggested he would be there.

In reality, as the Jan 6 committee proved, he fully intended to be there (although he did nothing like grab a steering wheel)

And that is inconsistent with expecting a riot. And they know it is inconsistent.

Eastman and Pence or his aides talked a few days earlier about violence, although they might have been thinking about violence of the kind the George Floyd protests resulted in – against stores or other demonstrators.

The federal Jan 6 indictment also accuses Trump of “exploiting” the riot, but in reality he was trying to salvage something or had just not yet given up.

Trump had had plans for the day, which the riot upended. There would be a delay of at least 12 hours, because there were plans to object to the electors from 6 states, each of which would probably cause a 2 hour delay. This has been persistently completely missing from the Democratic narrative! Even though everybody knew what was in store that morning.

After the riot, things were going to end sooner. The number of objections had been cut from 6 to 2 (including Arizona which had already been made when the proceedings were interrupted)

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:45 pm

The indictment still follows the impeachment tale of the crowd being sent to the Capitol by his speech (just used the other day by someone from Planned Parenthood by the way) while in reality the people who burst into the Capitol went directly there and rallies had been scheduled for both places.

http://web.archive.org/web/20210106005050/https://wildprotest.com

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:46 pm

I heard portions of the federal indictment read on the Brian Lehrer show in a rebroadcast today on WNYC I learned from there (assuming that this specific accusation is factual and I have no reason to assume it is not) that toward 6 pm, people working for Trump were calling Senators and one member of the House asking them to object to all electors from every state and claiming they could get a delay at least until the end of January 7.

They had no takers.

(it is hard to understand how Rudy Giuliani thought he would get states to withdraw their certifications – all he had at most were a few individual legislators telling him they wanted to do that. But that’s what his strategy was – like a losing baseball team hoping for another inning.)

This was not exploiting the riot. It didn’t give him more time – it reduced his time, even given the pause in proceedings, because plans for four objections by Senators were abandoned.

Trump didn’t finally concede the election till January 7 or 8th. (I think he did it twice) The federal indictment ends with the certification. It doesn’t go until Trump finally accepting the result.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:48 pm

Like nk said, Trump made good on his threats. Kemp and Raffensperger refused Trump’s bullying and he made sure that both were primaried, but because Trump is a glandular seat-of-the-pants executive who can’t plan way to a proper insurrection, he endorsed pathetic candidates, only made worse when he backed an immoral scumbag like Herschel Walker.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:48 pm

I bet you there are a lot of lesser Division I teams on the West Coast that would like to be in a west coast league with Oregon State and Washington State. Who gets the Rose Bowl?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 1:20 pm

What’s next for WSU, Oregon State with Stanford and Cal likely joining ACC

The traditional New Year’s Rose Bowl game as we knew is over; it will become part of the College Football Championship playoffs.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:00 pm

Murphy, too, sought to underscore the nation’s responsibility to “humanely secure our borders.” “

It’s nonsense to speak of “humanely” securing the border.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/31/us/heat-migrant-deaths-texas-mexico.html

Through the long summer, temperatures have lingered for days at a time at 100 degrees or higher. The heat has been stifling for many Texans, but deadly for some of those making their way through the hot, barren shrub land where migrants travel to avoid detection from Border Patrol agents…

…Fewer people are crossing from Mexico this year compared with last year, but already there have been more than 500 deaths in 2023 — confirmed by the discovery of bodies or partial remains by Deputy White and others like him as they conduct their grim patrols. In 2022, among the deadliest in recent years, there were 853 confirmed deaths.

The reason they talk of securing the border is because it is legally difficult to expel people – and Congress is not going to change any aspect of immigration law.

What Biden is doing is expelling a small fraction of people who enter, not trying to keep them away. Part of his taking both sides.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fast-track-deportation-program-migrant-families-slow-start-border-crossings-rise

U.S.
Fast-track deportation program for migrant families off to slow start as border crossings rise
BY CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ

AUGUST 31, 2023 / 10:39 AM / CBS NEWS

The U.S. has carried out fewer than 100 deportations under a program the Biden administration set up in May to deter unlawful entries by migrant families, a fraction of the tens of thousands of families processed by border agents during that time period, government data obtained by CBS News show.

The figures, which have not been previously reported, undercut the Biden administration’s intensifying efforts to showcase deportations of families through video releases and press statements and highlight the longstanding legal, humanitarian and operational challenges faced by the U.S. government when processing migrant parents and children.

The policy, known as Family Expedited Removal Management, was announced on May 11 as an effort to impose “immigration consequences” on parents who crossed the U.S.-Mexico border unlawfully with their children. It requires the heads of household of certain families to wear an ankle monitor and comply with a nightly home curfew while officials conduct a preliminary review of the family’s asylum claim.

Under the Immigration and Customs Enforcement initiative, families who pass what are known as “credible fear” interviews are allowed to stay in the U.S. pending a decision from an immigration judge on the full merits of their asylum claim. Those who fail these interviews are supposed to be deported to their home country within weeks of their arrival, unless they successfully appeal.

It makes it more into a lottery, and all this probably makes corruption easier

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:00 pm

The federal indictment pointed out at least two outrageous lies b rump: Trump tweeting that he and Pence were in agreement about Pence’s power to reject electoral votes within minutes of having been told by Pence that he did not agree, and Trump claiming to Pence that he a carried all states – you know he occasionally says that he won in a landslide.

Trump from time to time, talks like he thinks he is talking to idiots.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:07 pm

*12.

While several possibilities were suggested, including mini-strokes, doctors said that the spells appeared most consistent with focal seizures, which are electrical surges in one region of the brain.

You wouldn’t have two mini–strokes that looked exactly the same, so that argues for seizures (apparently with gradual recovery over a period of a few minutes.)

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:12 pm

Most fair minded, self aware seniors will not hold that against Haley. She spoke a hard truth. I give her credit for saying it.

steveg (6dc773) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:14 pm

“The documents also reveal further evidence of Hunter’s influence in the official Office of the Vice President. Hunter had the ability to direct correspondence, plan guest lists for State dinners and receptions, and bring people into the White House at his discretion. This evidence further calls into question Joe Biden’s claims that he was never involved with, never discussed, and did not know about Hunter’s business dealings, and it raises questions as to the propriety of the massive payments Hunter was receiving while he was commanding such influence in the Office of the Vice President.”

steveg (6dc773) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:15 pm

I thought you were taking your Trump troll act elsewhere, BuDuh. Are you not a man of your word?

AJ suggested I keep commenting.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:16 pm

As nk likes to point out, none of this proves Joe Biden took a nickel (yet), but Joe was complicit in facilitating his sons efforts toward selling access to the office of VP of USA

steveg (6dc773) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:19 pm

“We’re not running out of anything,” LaPlante said in a fireside chat at the inaugural conference of the National Defense Industrial Association’s Emerging Technology Institute on Aug. 28.

Well, what else is he going to say or do? Maybe bring a long list of stuff we are short on?
I think this excerpt is meaningless at best

steveg (6dc773) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:26 pm

19.

Trump wasn’t asking for a recount or an investigation, he wanted Raffensperger to conjure up enough votes to reverse the result.

Trump was claiming there was massive ballot box stuffing, but he was only asking for a small “correction.”

Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:29 pm

steveg (6dc773) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:15 pm

This evidence further calls into question Joe Biden’s claims that he was never involved with, never discussed, and did not know about Hunter’s business dealings, and it raises questions as to the propriety of the massive payments Hunter was receiving while he was commanding such influence in the Office of the Vice President.”

Je Biden never said he never knew about Hunter’s business dealings, nor thaat he never discussed it with anyone.. But he doesn’t seem to have followed it in detail.

He approved of Tony Bobulinski, who was supposed to watch over Hunter’s business with CEFC and make sure they stayed within the law, but Jim and Hunter Biden froze him out.

He claimed he never discussed it with his son

He’s now pulled back to: Never took any money

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:36 pm

Trump said:

TRUMP: Well, you have to. Well, under law, you’re not allowed to give faulty election results, okay? You’re not allowed to do that. And that’s what you done. This is a faulty election result……..

Now the thing s, that’d not true

But Trump never broke character here. He never told affensperger to do something wrong.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:43 pm

JVW (1ad43e) — 9/1/2023 @ 11:50 am

So long as the people who complain about the noise from Travis AFB can be pummeled, I would agree with JVW. Unfortunately pummeling these people isn’t allowed.

It’s incompatible land use. John Garamendi gets it.

Purplehaze (05dea1) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:43 pm

All that Trump said was “I won” and any attempt to claim otherwise would be a crime.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:44 pm

All of that beautiful design in the proposed development doesn’t make up for the noise from Travis AFB.

Hard pass.

norcal (91e8db) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:00 pm

Comedy Gold!

In a sworn deposition from this past April, former President Donald Trump told New York officials that he was too busy “saving millions of lives” as president to run his company, let alone commit business fraud, a transcript released Wednesday revealed.

“So you were too busy for the company?” Kevin Wallace, a lawyer for New York Attorney General Letitia James, asked early in the seven-hour deposition, referring to the years since 2015, when Trump first ran for president.

“In a way, yeah,” Trump responded.

“Yeah, I think you can say it. It’s another way of saying it. I was very busy. I was — I considered this the most important job in the world, saving millions of lives,” Trump added.

“I think you would have nuclear holocaust if I didn’t deal with North Korea. I think you would have a nuclear war, if I weren’t elected,” Trump said of his four years in office.

“And I think you might have a nuclear war now if you want to know the truth,” he continued.

Trump made these assertions while distancing himself from the state attorney general’s claims that over the past decade, his New York-based real estate company, the Trump Organization, routinely misstated the value of its assets to save money on bank loans, insurance, and taxes.
……….
“I was interested in solving the problem with North Korea, which was ready to blow up, and solving the problems we had with China, who was just ripping us off left and right, and making sure that Russia never went into Ukraine, which they didn’t, under our auspices and, you know, a lot of other things. There were a lot of things that were happening in the world, as you probably know.

“And I did a very good job. I got rid of those problems. Today those problems are very prevalent.”
…………

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:10 pm

The traditional New Year’s Rose Bowl game as we knew is over; it will become part of the College Football Championship playoffs.

Yes, but was that because the Pac-12 allowed it, or some other arrangement?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:11 pm

More Comedy Gold!

The first time Donald Trump was deposed by Attorney General Letitia James of New York — who’s spent more than two years calling him an inveterate fraudster — the former president pleaded the Fifth Amendment repeatedly.

But in a second deposition held this past April, the AG’s office couldn’t get him to shut up, including about the “beautiful” marble bathrooms in his “tremendous” properties, a newly released transcript showed.
……….
“We’re going to be here until midnight if you keep asking questions that are all over the map,” Trump’s lawyer Chris Kise said early on to one of James’ top lawyers on the fraud case, Kevin Wallace.

“Chris,” Wallace responded, “we’re going to be here until midnight if your client answers every question with an eight-minute speech.”
……….
“If I wanted to build a big statement just for the sake of a statement, I would go out and I would value the brand and — which is much more than the $3 billion,” Trump said. “And as I said once before today, I became President of the United States because of my brand.”
……….
In other ramblings, Trump launched into a soliloquy about the beauty of the marble bathrooms at his Miami golf resort, Trump National Doral Golf Club.

“In the case of the villas, 800 rooms, they were gutted out down to the steel and rebuilt and they’re incredible,” he said of his renovation of the property.

“I could have done what I called a paint and wallpaper job. You just paint and wallpaper it. But it was time — it was tired,” he said.

“I started using marble instead of carpet,” he added, continuing a line of thought that was irrelevant.

“They’re all marble bathrooms. I mean, they’re beautiful.”

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:14 pm

“I think you would have nuclear holocaust if I didn’t deal with North Korea. I think you would have a nuclear war, if I weren’t elected,” Trump said of his four years in office.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:10 pm

Yeah. We’d all be dead if not for Trump. 🙄

How does anybody believe this claptrap?

norcal (91e8db) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:15 pm

“I don’t see any scenario where we’re gonna be able to take in a program in Atlantic City or, frankly, elsewhere in the state,” Governor Phil Murphy said during his appearance on News 12 New Jersey on Thursday night. “We are already seeing folks in New Jersey that have probably swelled into New Jersey from New York or other locations, but you need scale, an enormous amount of federal support, resources that go beyond anything we can afford.”

Back in the 90’s when California was complaining, passing Prop 187, and the governor was demanding federal money for the illegal influx, all those people back east were calling the governor and California racist.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:16 pm

only made worse when he backed an immoral scumbag like Herschel Walker.

Have you seen who’s a senator lately?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:18 pm

The traditional New Year’s Rose Bowl game as we knew is over; it will become part of the College Football Championship playoffs.

Yes, but was that because the Pac-12 allowed it, or some other arrangement?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:11 pm

The Pac-12 doesn’t control the Rose Bowl, it has a contract with the Rose Bowl Operating Co., which is controlled by the City of Pasadena. Starting in 1998 with the Bowl Championship Series (and carried over to the College Football Playoff (CFP) series beginning in 2015), there have been years when the New Year’s Day Rose Bowl game wasn’t played between teams from the Pac-12 and the Big Ten. Since there apparently is no longer a Pac-12 football conference, becoming part of the CFP series was smart move. In the next two CFP series, the Rose Bowl will host quarterfinal games on January 1, 2025 and January 1, 2026.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:34 pm

UCLA will still play its home games at the Rose Bowl.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:37 pm

(This is a bit long, I’m sorry. Also, I am not a surveyor or hydro-engineer, these are just my layperson observations)

My father’s side of the family is all from the Fairfield/Vacaville area that they are talking about in the development story. I’ve been in and out of there my entire life.

I’m going to start with saying that this is basically a county that is an exurb of the Bay Area. West of the hills has a lot of city-type issues- gang involvement, crime, etc. that crept out of Oakland and Richmond in the 80s into Vallejo and then Fairfield. The severity ebbs and flows depending on housing prices in the bay area proper. The east side of the county has remained mostly rural with Bay Area commuter incursions.

Right now there’s a pretty big planned neighborhood that’s been going in for a couple of years on the S.E side of Vacaville (I’m not sure how things are coming along there, I haven’t been to that area in a little while) and something may be going on N.E. of Dixon between Dixon and Davis. They took down a bunch of mature orchards there over the summer (lots and lots of dead trees on the ground when I drove through a couple of weeks ago), so they may be drilling in new trees, switching crops, or doing development. Fairfield mostly develops west.

The side of the county the developers are looking at is the south eastern rural side. If you want an image of the area, it basically looks like any other rural area of the country with squared off section (1 mi X 1 mi) farms and dusty 2 lane straight roads between them except that there’s a water problem in some parts of it, no, not that kind. A lot of it is low lying delta and estuary land with salt water seepage, which is a problem for both farmers and developers. If they do intend to develop between Travis and Rio Vista, they are going to have to be very careful and have a very good water redirections and control plan, otherwise there will be a lot of unhappy people with wet feet. Some of the land may also have some stability problems for large buildings.

There are a couple of other main concerns.

It’s in the Travis flight path, so there is going to be a lot of plane noise. There just is. The reason Travis and the Travis runway were built where they are is specifically for the interaction between the prevailing winds and airplanes. There is no way to move the flight path.

If they plan to build directly south of Travis (they should not) there is not just the water issue, but it is also down-stream of Travis and the military has historically had very few environmental regulations that it has to follow. The land in that area is almost certainly permeated with deadly chemical runoff. If they stay further east they would probably be OK.

Transportation. If you look at a map of the area, you’ll see several roads that look like decent sized highways. They are not. They are some of the aforementioned dusty two lane roads. If there’s significant development in the area, 12 would need to be enlarged into a freeway, including significant areas of causeway, between I5, through the development, south of Fairfield, to 80/680. They would also need to develop 113 and probably move it slightly east to run up the east side of Dixon. They would need a new bridge at Rio Vista (the current bridge is a draw-bridge) and they would need to widen 160 south into the east bay.

Really laying the entire infrastructure would be a big challenge.

Having said that, it’s a pretty big stretch of not very developed land that could have decent Bay area and Sacramento access if the transportation problem is solved and NorCal can certainly use more housing inventory.

They would not need gated communities. The closest centers of population would be the middle/upper-middle class planned neighborhoods in S. Vacaville. Fairfield riff-raff goes west toward Richmond and Vallejo rather than east.

Nic (896fdf) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:52 pm

Sad!

Peter Navarro, a former senior White House adviser to former President Donald Trump, failed to prove that Trump asserted executive privilege to block him from testifying to the House Jan. 6 select committee, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

The ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Amit Mehta keeps on track Navarro’s Sept. 5 contempt-of-Congress trial, where he will face jurors on two charges that he defied the committee’s subpoena for testimony and documents related to Navarro’s role in Trump’s bid to subvert the 2020 election.

………..Navarro has never produced direct evidence to back that claim and, more importantly, Trump and his attorneys have repeatedly declined to say whether Navarro was accurately reflecting their conversations.

Mehta cited Trump’s refusal to corroborate Navarro’s claims as the most compelling reason that he found Trump did not, in fact, seek to block Navarro’s testimony to the select committee.

“There was no formal invocation of executive privilege by [Trump] after personal consideration nor authorization to Mr. Navarro to invoke privilege on his behalf,” Mehta said.

Navarro’s trial, which is likely to be brief, will head to jury selection on Tuesday. Mehta’s ruling means the former Trump trade adviser will not be able to argue to the jury that he believed Trump asserted privilege and effectively blocked him from complying with aspects of the select committee’s subpoena.
………..

Like so many, Navarro has been left twisting in wind. He should have asked for a written assertion of privilege.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:59 pm

Roanoke College (VA) Poll 8/29/23

………..
Trump maintains a commanding lead of 47% as the first choice among self-reported Virginia Republicans, followed by DeSantis at 13% and the rest of the candidates in single digits. While Trump’s level of support remains about the same as our last poll, the percentage of Republicans reporting DeSantis as their first choice has dropped by 15% since our last poll in May.

We also asked Virginians to report their second-choice candidate for the Republican nomination, where the results showed a more competitive field. Approximately 19% of Republicans reported DeSantis as their second choice, followed by Trump (17%), Ramaswamy (17%), Youngkin (14%), Scott (9%), Pence (8%) and Haley (6%).

…….Biden leads Trump by about nine points at 51% to 42%, which is a drop from his 16-point lead we reported in our May poll. Looking at a breakdown by party identification, while both Biden and Trump have solidified support among Democrats and Republicans, respectively, our poll finds that Biden has a 21-point advantage among independents at 55% to 34%. We also asked Virginians, if Biden and Trump are the party nominees in 2024, whether they would consider voting for an independent candidate for president in 2024. Approximately 47% of Virginians said they would consider an independent candidate while 50% said they would not. …….
………..
For each of (Trump’s indictments), we asked Virginians whether they think Trump did something illegal, did something unethical but not illegal, or did nothing wrong. A majority of Virginians reported that they think Trump did something illegal in the cases involving classified documents (54%) and the 2020 election (51%), while about a third reported that they think he did something illegal in the case involving hush money payments (34%).

There are substantial differences between Democrats and Republicans in these responses, including 70- and 72-point gaps in beliefs about whether Trump did something illegal in the classified documents and 2020 election cases, respectively, and a 54-point gap in beliefs about whether Trump did something illegal in the hush money payments case. Among independents, 64% reported that he did something illegal in the classified documents case, 33% reported he did something illegal in the hush money payments case, and 58% reported that he did something illegal in the 2020 election case.
………..

Questions and toplines Paragraph breaks added.

From the poll:

If you had to choose, who would you most prefer to be the Republican nominee for president in 2024? Among Republican respondents:

Donald Trump 47%
Nikki Haley 2%
Ron DeSantis 13%
Mike Pence 7%
Tim Scott 6%
Chris Christie 3%
Vivek Ramaswamy 5%
Glenn Youngkin 9%
Someone else 6%
Unsure 2%

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:27 pm

Having said that, it’s a pretty big stretch of not very developed land that could have decent Bay area and Sacramento access if the transportation problem is solved and NorCal can certainly use more housing inventory.

Rail into SF and San Jose would be a good plan, too. Maybe a common right-of-way with the new roads.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:33 pm

Vivek Ramaswamy

Have I mentioned that he’s an insider trader and a pump & dump crook?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:34 pm

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:27 pm

More from the Roanoke College Poll:

Trump Indictments Think has done something illegal

Dems/Reps/Indys

Classified documents case 87% 17% 64%

Hush money payments case 63% 9% 33%

2020 election case 84% 12% 58%

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:37 pm

Having said that, it’s a pretty big stretch of not very developed land

Will they strip mine it for rare earths first, before they build?

The thing about rare earths is that they are not rare at all. It is just that they are not found in veins or deposits and extracting them is very destructive to the land.

I wonder if that’s what they’re really after. I’ll rethink it when the super moon wanes a little more.

nk (83803f) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:44 pm

There are some places like Mountain Pass, CA where concentrations are higher… but the decision I made to strip mine my front yard was influenced by the moon causing a King Tide in my cerebrospinal fluid

steveg (6dc773) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:59 pm

Someone could make some money by guilting Californians into paying to recycle REE’s out of their old electronics… maybe Vivek?

steveg (6dc773) — 9/1/2023 @ 5:02 pm

@85: The only number worth looking at is the Indy one. Sure Democrats may be right, but that’s not why they lean that way. The independents see the NY case for the trumped up opportunism that it is but the numbers on the other two are more interesting.

Those primaries where independents vote won’t be the slam dunk that Trump is hoping for. Unless, of course, Biden has a meaningful challenger.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 5:06 pm

Someone could make some money by guilting Californians into paying to recycle REE’s out of their old electronics… maybe Vivek?

That’s not how he rolls. Instead he’ll set up a company to make BILLIONS!!!1! doing the recycling, just as soon as the legislature acts. GET IN NOW!!1!

Then, just before the legislature doesn’t act, he’ll dump all his shares at a 10,000% profit and the small investors will be wiped out a few days later.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 5:09 pm

Have I mentioned that he’s an insider trader and a pump & dump crook?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 4:34 pm

So he’d fit right in with the Clinton’s, Bidens’s, Pelosi’s and the rest?

NJRob (4423b0) — 9/1/2023 @ 5:19 pm

@Kevin@83 Amtrak runs right into downtown San Jose through Davis and Suisun. Bart connection to one of the East Bay stations would be good. Probably Antioch or Pittsburg.

Nic (896fdf) — 9/1/2023 @ 5:56 pm

On a personal note, on the boat ride to Music at the Marina to see an outstanding LeRoy Bell (the dude is 72 and still rocking), my friend told me a tale of one of his immigrant employees.

Dmitry is a late-20 something Russian who is married to Olga, who is Ukrainian, and they have a young son, three or four years old (and the wife is currently pregnant). I met them for a few minutes last evening, and they’re good people. Dmitry has Ukrainian cousins and an uncle, so both husband and wife have family ties on both sides of the Russo-Ukrainian border.

Not long after Putin’s Feb-2022 invasion, Dmitry was called to serve in the Russian military and, because he didn’t want to be in the position of potentially killing his family or his wife’s family members, decided to flee Russia and get to America.

Taking a circuitous route through Ukraine and then Russia, they traveled separately and met up in Georgia, with him traveling with the boy and Olga on her own. After reuniting in the capital city, they flew to Mexico City and then made their way to Tijuana. I wasn’t aware that Mexico has pre-border checkpoints, but they were caught there multiple times and turned away, vehicles confiscated.

Finally, after spending nearly all their cash, they were able to sneak around the checkpoints and customs, then made their way to a church on the other side of the border, where they were given sanctuary and were transited to the Puget Sound area.

I don’t know their immigration or refugee status, and Dmitry is getting paid off the books, so they’re probably in a legal gray area, but I’m glad they’re here. It took perseverance and resourcefulness to make this journey, the kind of attributes that would make for good Americans and positive contributors. Dmitry and Olga (not their real names) are just one personal story, and I wonder how many other Dmitrys and and Olgas are out there, with similar stories waiting to be told.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/1/2023 @ 7:23 pm

UCLA will still play its home games at the Rose Bowl.

The most important event still at the Rose Bowl is the Sunday flea market. Even that’s held in the parking lot.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/1/2023 @ 8:40 pm

A classic retweet from our host. (Re-X?)

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/1/2023 @ 8:44 pm

So he’d fit right in with the Clinton’s, Bidens’s, Pelosi’s and the rest?

It’s kind of odd the way you leave Trump off that list.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 8:58 pm

Amtrak

Please. Amtrak is hopeless. The station here in ABQ doesn’t even have WiFi.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 8:59 pm

A classic retweet from our host. (Re-X?)

XX?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 9:00 pm

Have you seen who’s a senator lately?

Yes. House, too.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/1/2023 @ 10:18 pm

Santos is just the front man. He’s like the guy doing 95 on the highway, when everyone else is doing 85.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/1/2023 @ 10:55 pm

Kevin,

why? I put plenty of names and added a note including plenty more. Your need to constantly add Trump to the list is on you. I have no obligation to suot your desires.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:32 am

I know plenty promoted the lies attacking the Canadian Catholic church as a genocide participant near and far. The Canadian-Cuban Prime Minister excused away arson of those churches as justifed due to these lies. Now that the work has been done and there are no bodies and no horrific acts that were done by those Catholic Christians, I don’t see retractions or apologies from those who promoted the lies.

Why is that?

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:37 am

Rob, who’s “plenty”? Do have any link to this story?

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 7:29 am

RIP singer/songwriter Jimmy Buffett (76). Margaritaville has closed.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 7:44 am

I have no obligation to suot your desires.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:32 am

As we have no obligation to suit yours.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 7:50 am

I think the continuing bankruptcies by US Catholic dioceses due to the massive number of lawsuits filed over molestation allegations should be of greater concern than what goes on north of the border.

The dioceses currently in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings are Albany, Buffalo, Camden, New Orleans, Norwich, Oakland, Ogdensburg, Rochester, Rockville Centre, San Juan (Puerto Rico), Santa Fe, and Syracuse.

The dioceses that have completed their bankruptcy proceedings are Agaña (Guam), Davenport, Duluth, Fairbanks, Gallup, Great Falls-Billings, Harrisburg, Helena, Milwaukee, New Ulm, Portland in Oregon, St. Paul and Minneapolis, Spokane, Stockton, Tucson, Wilmington, and Winona-Rochester.

Add the diocese of San Francisco, which just filed this week, and Santa Rosa (CA) in March. The Sacramento diocese is also on the verge of insolvency.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:07 am

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:07 am

You can add the San Diego diocese to list of the newly bankrupt.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:13 am

We’ve been hearing for months about whistleblowers relating to Hunter Biden or the “Biden crime family”, but I only heard about this FBI whistleblower yesterday. His name is Johnathan Buma, a career counterintelligence agent specializing in Russia, having had to learn Russian to do his job and, over the course of his work, developed multiple Russian-Ukrainian sources.

Buma provided the Baltimore FBI office with intel about Hunter from one of his confidential human sources (CHSs), and they were glad to get it. However, when his sources gave him intel on Giuliani, his work was shut down, to the point that he was longer permitted contact with his CHSs, and he became a whistleblower not long after.

What did Buma find on Giuliani? For one, in 2019 Giuliani took a $300,000 consulting job with a character named Fuks, which Fuks described the work as “lobbying” (which crosses into FARA territory) but Giuliani described as “security consultant”. Who’s this Fuks fella? From the whistleblower statement.

Regarding my concerns Giuliani may have been compromised by the RIS, in 1019 and 2020, high quality CHS reporting on the Russian-Ukrainian oligarch, Pavlo Yakovich Fuks (Fuks), aka Pavel Yakovlevidl Fuchs, described how Fuks had paid Giuliani $300,000 to serve as his U.S. lobbyist The CHS also responded that Giuliani had gone to the city of Kharkiv, Ukraine, as early as November 2017, where he spent three days with Fuks, the now deceased mayor of Kharkiv, Hennadiy Adolfovych Kernes (Kernes), and Vitaliy Yuriyovych Khomutynnik (Khomutynnilc), an oligarch with extensive criminal ties. In early 2017, Fuks direaly told DYNAMO [the code name of Buma’s CHS] that he had paid Giuliani $300,000 (USD) to be his “lobbyist”. Later on, in 2019, Giuliani told DYNAMO he had received $300,000 (USD) and even had co “apply pressure to get paid by Fuks. When asked by DYNAMO, Giuliani denied this payment was for lobbying, instead insisting it was for “security consulting.” By 2020, information collected by me through my CHSs, as well as other agents and analyses in the FBI, led to a determination described in peer reviewed intelligence information reports (IIRs) that Fuks was a co-opted asset of the RIS [Russian Intelligence Services]. However, in 2020 and 2021, it became increasingly apparent to me that my reporting on Fuks and his ties to Giuliani was negatively received by my superiors, who were eager for the flow of information about Fuks and his relationship with Giuliani to stop.

Fuks is a bad guy, consorting with the likes of Kolomoisky in a money-laundering scheme and so forth, to the point that the US revoked his visa and put him on an organized crime watch list.

Fuks has acted as a key RIS asset in Kharkiv, Ukraine, at least from 2017 up until Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022. My investigations uncovered operations run by Fuks designed to provide a predicate narrative for a Russian invasion and subjugation of Kharkiv, the same city Giuliani had visited, The predicate narrative involved artificial fomenution of racial tensions that allowed Russian President Vladimir Putin (Putin) to claim Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was “the de-Nazifiation of Ukraine” and for peaceful purposes. Putin believed that the city would be delivered to Russian forces by pro-Russian officials, but the resistance of Ukrainian defenders and loyal officials frustrated this expectation. Kernes, the mayor of Kharkiv and a close associate of Fuks’, had previously accepted money from Putin in anticipation of Russia’s attempt to acquire Kharkiv. When Kharkiv was not turned over to Russia prior to 2020, Kernes was then shot in the back, paralyzed, and later died, in a Berlin hospital on December 17, 2020. During this period, Fuks extended his de facto control over Kharkiv. In addition to his extensive dealings with Giuliani, Fuks also had dealings with Donald Trump (Trump) in the years before he stood as a candidate for president, engaging with him in discussions about a Trump Tower deal. Engaging with and attempting to influence politically exposed persons in the United States appears to have been a priority for Fuks over the last many years. Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, and the attempted but failed Russian occupation of Kharkiv, Fuks faced criminal charges in Ukraine and fled the country. He currently appears to be resident in or around London, using a UK foreign investor visa.

Fuks was trying to buy naming rights from Trump for a real estate project in Moscow, offering $10 million, but he didn’t accept Trump’s $20 million counter-offer and the deal never happened.

After Fuks was sanctioned, he paid Andriy Telizhenko to be his representative.

Subsequently to having his [Fuk’s] U.S. visa revoked, DYNAMO’s contacts in the Ukraine’s PGO ind other sub-CHSs residing in Ukraine informed DYNAMO that Fuks paid his representative, Andriy Tclizhenko (Telizhcnko), in or around 2019 to establish contacts with U.S. politicians. By that time, DYNAMO’s reporting had proven to be highly reliable. Telizhcnko has since been sanctioned by OFAC for election interference and by Ukraine’s government for collaborating with Russia.

Telizhenko also consorted with Giuliani.

The former Ukrainian diplomat at the center of outlandish Republican claims that Kyiv, not Moscow, had intervened in the 2016 presidential race has been formally sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department.

Andrii Telizhenko spun a web of stories enthusiastically taken up by Donald Trump’s supporters, including his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, who used this alleged evidence in efforts to slime President-elect Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden ahead of the 2020 election.

The Treasury accused Telizhenko of being “part of a Russia-linked foreign influence network” on Monday. Interestingly, the U.S. government also chose to state on the record that Trump’s beloved Ukraine scandals were “false.”
[…]
Giuliani’s off-the-books Ukrainian intelligence operation, which included a ploy to prove that it was not Putin who intervened in 2016, ultimately ended up with his client, President Trump, being impeached by the House of Representatives. The Senate voted not to convict him, but the recriminations of Giuliani’s mission to Kyiv saw the three men turn on each other.

Earlier in the year, they had appeared close. Giuliani interviewed both Derkach and Telizhenko on his YouTube video series “Common Sense,” which claimed to expose the truth about the Bidens. Telizhenko even recorded a voiceover at Giuliani’s request for the segment with Derkach.

Derkach was not mentioned in the whistleblower report, but he’s also a bad guy whom the form NYC mayor consorted with.

Giuliani’s efforts in Ukraine placed him in contact with several Ukrainians since sanctioned for allegedly assisting Russian disinformation efforts. The most prominent was Andriy Derkach, the son of a former KGB officer and then a Ukrainian legislator, who supplied Giuliani with unsubstantiated information about the Bidens’ supposed activities in Ukraine. After making a trip to Ukraine in the summer of 2020, Giuliani told the Washington Post that he kept in touch with Derkach and called him “very helpful.”

Trump’s Treasury Department sanctioned Derkach in 2020, calling him an “active Russian agent for over a decade.” In March 2021, a declassified report issued by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said that Putin in 2020 signed off on a Russian intelligence effort to use proxies to feed prominent US individuals “influence narratives” aimed at hurting Biden’s campaign and helping Trump. The report cited Derkach, asserting that Putin “had purview” over his activities. Though the report did not name him, Giuliani was obviously one of the Americans the ODNI believed had been manipulated by the Russians. Last year, federal prosecutors hit Derkach with criminal charges for his alleged attempts to evade sanctions.

Just like the activities surrounding Hunter Biden should be investigated (and Joe as well if the evidence points in that direction), this business with Giuliani should also be investigated, because he basically sold out his country by working with Russian and pro-Russian operatives.

I understand that Giuliani will probably end up destitute (if he’s not there already) and has a good chance of being convicted as a felon in Georgia, so maybe there’s a sympathy factor for America’s Mayor, but for crying out loud, he colluded with Russian assets or spies to help Trump and hurt Trump’s chief political rival. He this himself through a series awfully bad terrible decisions that he made (but I suspect were also urged onto him by Trump).

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 9:32 am

Given the non-response from Rob, it sounds like Pope Francis is one of those “plenty” who “promoted the lies attacking the Canadian Catholic church as a genocide participant near and far”.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 9:36 am

RIP former NM governor, Clinton administration Energy Secretary and United Nations ambassador, and hostage retriever Bill Richardson (75).

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 9:40 am

Given the non-response from Rob……….

NJRob practices what I call “hit and run.” He will post some screed or insult then fail to respond to any criticism.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 9:46 am

I blame Putin.

A manhunt is underway in the German town of Einbeck for a man who authorities say violently attacked a group of Ukrainian children for speaking in Ukrainian. The man, described by the public prosecutor’s office in Göttingen as being between 40 and 45 years old, allegedly approached the group of kids as they sat near a bridge over a small canal, DW reports. Upon hearing that they were speaking Ukrainian, he demanded that they speak Russian and claimed that Ukraine started the war, prosecutors said. The incident culminated in the middle-aged man grabbing a 10-year-old boy in the group and throwing him over the railing of the bridge, leaving him with injuries to his head and leg. The man allegedly hurled a glass bottle at the boy as he lay injured in the canal. Prosecutors are seeking to charge the man with attempted murder.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 9:53 am

Bill Richardson has some controversy. Among other things, his name came up in the testimony of an Epstein victim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richardson#Allegations_of_corruption

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 10:59 am

Paul @ 112,

I saw that. Just horrific. Just as Putin has never cared one iota about his people’s well-being, and there really isn’t any value placed on human life *unless* it helps to consolidate power, the man’s actions echo that thinking. The same level of inhumanity is seen through Putin’s war crimes and all the atrocities committed against the Ukrainians and even those courageous Russians who pushback against his dictatorial regime.

Dana (4020dd) — 9/2/2023 @ 11:05 am

Just think: in a few short years, we could be allies with Putin.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 11:33 am

Criticism? From whom?

There were dozens of articles writing lies about a false genocide in Canada perpetuated by the Catholic church that was promoted by the commie Prime Minister and linked by several of the usual suspects.

NJRob (379a9d) — 9/2/2023 @ 11:36 am

Criticism? From whom?

Don’t be obtuse. I wasn’t referring to your Canadian Catholic Church post, I was referring to your general reaction to criticism from anyone on anything.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 11:45 am

Given the non-response from Rob, it sounds like Pope Francis is one of those “plenty” who “promoted the lies attacking the Canadian Catholic church as a genocide participant near and far”.

This particular Pontiff promoting a completely faulty story which fits a radical leftist narrative isn’t too surprising, Paul. He’s an extremely weak man and even a fool like Justin Trudeau can bully him into compliance. The thing is, the story of mass graves had pretty much been thoroughly debunked by the time Francis responded in his typically clumsy and stupid way.

JVW (1ad43e) — 9/2/2023 @ 11:56 am

Thanks, JVW, that’s the kind of explanation I was not going to get from Rob.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 12:14 pm

Economist/YouGov Poll 8/30/23

…………..
By a margin of three to one (61% to 22%), Republicans strongly or somewhat approve of Trump’s decision not to participate in the debate. Republicans who say they would vote for Trump if the primary were held today are far more likely to approve of his decision to skip the debate (83%) compared to Republicans who say they would vote for other GOP candidates (43%).
…………..
Trump’s absence from the debate does not seem to have affected his standing among Republicans. Of the 2024 GOP candidates, he continues to receive the largest share of support among Republicans and Independents who lean toward the Republican Party. Half of this group (51%) say they would vote for Trump if the presidential primary were held today, while a combined 32% say they would vote for any of the 11 other declared candidates; 17% are undecided or say they would not vote. Trump’s lead over his closest rival, DeSantis, is 37 percentage points.
………….
Trump Republicans are 42 points more likely than non-Trump Republicans (87% vs. 45%) to say that Joe Biden was not the legitimate winner of the 2020 election. They also are far more likely than non-Trump Republicans to say that Mike Pence made the wrong decision in certifying Biden’s victory (51% vs. 13%).

…………Trump Republicans (24%) are half as likely as non-Trump Republicans (50%) to say it is very or somewhat likely that Trump will be convicted of a crime prior to the 2024 election. And they are 38 points more likely to say that if Trump is convicted after being nominated, the Republican Party should still support him (86% vs. 48%).
…………..

Poll toplines and crosstabs.

From the poll:

Republican candidate first choice:

Donald Trump 51%

Ron DeSantis 14

Vivek Ramaswamy 5

Nikki Haley 4

Mike Pence 3

Tim Scott 2

Chris Christie 2

Francis Suarez 0

Will Hurd 0

Asa Hutchinson 0

Larry Elder 0

Doug Burgum 0

Biden v. Trump

Biden 43
Trump 44

Who do think will win?

Biden 39
Trump 38
Not sure 23

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 12:18 pm

DA Fani Willis violates the law

Her remarkably dishonest attempt to violate civil liberties and deceive the GA court

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has gone from criminalizing court filings to committing crimes with respect to her own court filings.

Georgia law makes it unlawful to knowingly file a court document “knowing or having reason to know that such document is false or contains a materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation.” Ga. Code Ann. § 16-10-20.1(b)(1).

DA Willis is well-aware of this law; she charged a number of Defendants – including Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and John Eastman – with a violation of that law for filing in a document that contained a “materially false statement in federal court.” And she just violated it this week….

… For background, Georgia law allows for a speedy trial demand in accordance with the Sixth Amendment, which provides that “the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial.” Two Defendants, Kenneth John Chesebro and Sidney Powell, have made that request pursuant to Georgia law.

DA Willis responded to these speedy trial demands with an utterly false Motion to Advise to inform the Court and the Defendants of the “consequences” of their requests for a speedy trial. This Motion was a violation of § 16-10-20.1(b)(1). By no means are we making a stretch – the statutory violations are clear and obvious. DA Willis and her team invented legal theories and misled the Court about relevant caselaw that allegedly supported her position. Let us explain….

… First, DA Willis alleges that because of Defendants’ speedy trial demand, they “cannot now argue that they are entitled to the State’s discovery responses ten (10) days in advance of trial. Smith v. State, 257 Ga. App. 88, 90 (2002); Ruff v. State, 266 Ga. App. 694, 695 (2004)”.

This is not true. Georgia law requires DA Willis to produce a broad spectrum of evidence “no later than ten days prior to trial.” Ga. Code Ann. § 17-16-4. A Defendant’s request for speedy trial does not waive this obligation.

Furthermore, the Defendants are not precluded from arguing they are entitled to evidence under Georgia law by the mere fact they requested a speedy trial. Those cases DA Willis cites in support of her position? They do not apply, they do not stand for the claim DA Willis says they do. The Smith case involved a criminal defendant that requested a continuance. The Ruff case had to do with a defendant rejecting a continuance offer from a trial court where the State did not disclose witnesses in a timely manner. Neither case precludes the ability of a defendant to object to late disclosure of evidence.

Second, and DA Willis states “The Defendants cannot now argue that they are entitled to notice of the State’s similar transaction evidence ten (10) days in advance of trial. Brown v. State, 275 Ga. App. 281, 287 (2005)”.

Again, this is false. Rule 31.1 requires DA Willis to provide notice of intent to present similar transactions to be “given and filed at least 10 days before trial unless the time is shortened or lengthened by the judge.”

The Defendants did not waive that obligation to benefit DA Willis. It still exists, and it still binds DA Willis. The case DA Willis cites – Brown v. State – does not stand for the proposition that this requirement is waived by a request for a speedy trial. In fact, both the Brown case and Rule 31.1. contemplate the necessity of briefing and arguments where the 10 day notice is violated.

Third, DA Willis alleges the request for a speedy trial precludes the Defendants “from calling any witnesses whose statements were not provided to the State at least ten (10) days in advance of trial. Clark v. State, 271 Ga. App. 534, 536 (2005).”

Another falsehood. Georgia law allows for this 10 day witness statement requirement to be shortened or lengthened “as the court permits.” Ga. Code Ann. § 17-16-7. Whether witnesses are excluded for a violation of the notice rule is up to the Judge; there is no outright preclusion, as alleged by DA Willis.

And again, the case DA Willis cites just doesn’t stand for what she says it does. Clark v. State involved a criminal defendant who violated that 10 day witness statement requirement. The trial judge in Clark gave the defendant the option of not calling the witness or the ability to continue his case to a later date so that the witness could testify. There is no outright prohibition from calling a witness where the statement was produced with less than 10 days for trial, as maintained by DA Willis.

Fourth, Willis claims “The Defendants cannot now complain that they received less than seven (7) days notice of the trial date in this case. Linkous v. State, 254 Ga. App. 43, 47 (2002).”

False. Rule 32.1 requires notice of a trial date “not less than 7 days before the trial date or dates.” This notice requirement, which falls on the Court, exists to protect the due process rights of a criminal defendant. (The surprise of a trial date means an attorney cannot effectively represent their client.) It does not go away where speedy trial demand.

And as you might have guessed, the case cited by DA Willis does not stand for the proposition that a speedy trial demand means a criminal defendant waives the 7 day trial notice. The case cited by DA Willis is Linkous v. State, which concerns the remedies where there is a violation of Rule 32.1. It doesn’t excuse non-compliance with Rule 32.1.

At a minimum, the motion from DA Willis was deserving of sanctions. The trial judge, however, denied the motion without full briefing from the Defendants. He wasn’t concerned with accountability.

Finally, you might be curious about the purpose of the filing from DA Willis. Here’s our guess: DA Willis plans to violate her discovery obligations. She doesn’t want to take these cases to trial within the timeline the speedy trial demands afford. (Chesebro is set for trial on October 23, 2023.) Thus, she will violate her discovery and notice requirements, putting the Defendants in the tenuous position of either (1) proceeding to trial without adequate notice; or (2) having to continue the case to another date so that they may adequately prepare for trial.

This is nothing more than dishonest gamesmanship, a violation of Georgia law and an affront to prosecutorial ethics. If DA Willis wants to punish false statements to a court, she should turn herself in.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 12:53 pm

Paul,

do better.

NJRob (379a9d) — 9/2/2023 @ 12:53 pm

The lack of mass graves at Canadian residential schools is a good thing. It makes the horrific nature of the institution less horrific. But make no mistake, those schools were horrors.

Also, Rob’s characterization of ppls comments on the reports of mass graves has his usual disdain for honesty.

Time123 (07b525) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:21 pm

“do better.”

Says the social conservative who is unable or unwilling to tell his Party to do better

AJ_Liberty (64836d) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:26 pm

AJ clearly has a problem with social conservatives. I’m supporting DeSantis. You aren’t supporting anyone. Instead you cluck and attack conservatives.

NJRob (379a9d) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:29 pm

do better.

It was a simple question that you ignored, Rob. You do better.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:36 pm

No, I have a problem with social conservatives who choose to not speak out against Trump….and who will inevitably vote for him in the general election. A party that wants to preach about values cannot have a serial liar as its leader. You lose all legitimacy.

I support Nikki Haley. I would also support Christie if he was relevant. I would vote for DeSantis in a one-on-one with Trump, though I believe he would have a difficult job winning in the general. Hurd and Hutchinson are good men that draw little interest with this GOP. It’s a shame.

AJ_Liberty (64836d) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:40 pm

Also, any institution of sufficient age (such as the church) will have made bad choices in the past. There’s
Nothing unique to the church about that and it’s to the popes credit that he’s able to acknowledge those mistakes. Residential schools are such a mistake.

Time123 (07b525) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:42 pm

I’m supporting DeSantis.

LOL!

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:44 pm

I have a problem with social conservatives who choose to not speak out against Trump…

I support Nikki Haley.

Good choice!

Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley has indicated that she would support former President Donald Trump as their party’s nominee for the 2024 race even if he was convicted of a felony.

Haley was one of six White House hopefuls who raised their hand when asked that question by moderators during the first Republican candidates’ debate of the 2024 U.S. presidential campaign in Milwaukee on Wednesday night.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:50 pm

I don’t support Halley. But if the choice was her or Biden and the election were today I might vote for her. Wouldn’t vote for Biden against her.

Time123 (07b525) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:54 pm

I support Nikki Haley. I would also support Christie if he was relevant.

The RCP average has Haley at 6% and Christie at 3%. Insignificant when Trump is at 54%.

I don’t begrudge anyone supporting the candidate of their choice; I’m just saying don’t get your hopes up. The nomination race could be over by the end of March.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:56 pm

AJ_Liberty (64836d) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:40 pm

I kinda like what Eisenhower said, AJ.

“If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.”

The only cause that the leader of my party has is to himself and to his Chinese spy balloon sized ego, yet over half of this GOP still supports him as party standard-bearer and for the job of Most Powerful Man On Earth. SMDH

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:57 pm

Time123 (07b525) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:54 pm

I don’t think you will need to make that choice.

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 1:59 pm

Hope you’re wrong.

Time123 (07b525) — 9/2/2023 @ 2:11 pm

Breaking through Russia’s first line of defense is no small deal. Why?

Brig Gen Oleksandr Tarnavskiy estimated Russia had devoted 60% of its time and resources into building the first defensive line and only 20% each into the second and third lines because Moscow had not expected Ukrainian forces to get through.

“We are now between the first and second defensive lines,” he said, speaking to the Observer in his first interview since the breakthrough. Ukrainian forces were now pushing out on both sides of the breach and consolidating their hold on territory seized in recent fighting, he said.

“In the centre of the offensive, we are now completing the destruction of enemy units that provide cover for the retreat of Russian troops behind their second defensive line.”

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 2:28 pm

Wall Street Journal Poll 9/2/23

………..
The new survey finds that what was once a two-man race for the nomination has collapsed into a lopsided contest in which Trump, for now, has no formidable challenger. The former president is the top choice of 59% of GOP primary voters, up 11 percentage points since April, when the Journal tested a slightly different field of potential and declared candidates.

Trump’s lead over his top rival, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, has nearly doubled since April to 46 percentage points. At 13% support, DeSantis is barely ahead of the rest of the field, none of whom has broken out of single-digit support.
………….
Asked about the indictments of Trump, more than 60% of Republican primary voters said each was politically motivated and without merit. Some 78% said Trump’s actions after the 2020 election were legitimate efforts to ensure an accurate vote, while 16% said Trump had illegally tried to block Congress from certifying an election he had lost. About half, or 48%, said the indictments made them more likely to vote for Trump in 2024, while 16% said they made them less likely to support him for a second term.

The survey also found Trump running about dead-even with President Biden among voters overall in a hypothetical rematch of the 2020 election, with low interest among voters for two third-party candidates. Trump had 40% support to 39% for Biden, with potential Green Party and Libertarian candidates drawing a combined 3%. A significant share—some 17%—were undecided.

In a head-to-head test that excluded other candidates, Trump and Biden were tied, with 46% each and 8% undecided.
…………..
………….(DeSantis’s) attempt to run to Trump’s right turned off some supporters and donors without peeling off many Trump backers.
…………..
………….. Some 76% of Trump supporters say that they are committed to him and won’t change their minds. By contrast, 25% of DeSantis voters say their minds are made up. Smaller shares of Ramaswamy, Haley and Christie voters say they are fully committed to their choice.
…………….

From the poll:

Republican candidate first choice:

Donald Trump 59%

Ron DeSantis 13

Nikki Haley 8

Vivek Ramaswamy 5

Chris Christie 3

Mike Pence 2

Tim Scott 2

Asa Hutchinson 1

Doug Burgum 1

Undecided 4

Rip Murdock (d18d33) — 9/2/2023 @ 2:34 pm

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 12:53 pm

This is actually well-reasoned, and, if true, reflects poorly on DA Willis. Since the judge is new on the bench maybe she’s trying to slide crap past him, but he’s also a former prosecutor so he’s probably seen this game before.

If she is trying to deny the defendant their right to a speedy trial, she may get a conviction only to see it overturned. But I don’t think that’s her game (or the defendants’ actually). She is trying to avoid exposing her evidence to Donald Trump well in advance of his trial, and the defendants are trying to make her.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 3:00 pm

“In the centre of the offensive, we are now completing the destruction of enemy units that provide cover for the retreat of Russian troops behind their second defensive line.”

In chess, they say “the rook on the 7th is a pig.”

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 3:01 pm

Consider the source:

Techno Fog
@Techno_Fog
·
Dec 16, 2020
Edward Snowden exposed the worst 4th Amendment violations in US history: the unlawful collection of data on millions of Americans.

His fight was on behalf of the American people.

For that @Snowden deserves a pardon from @realDonaldTrump

nk (00706e) — 9/2/2023 @ 3:44 pm

Nk,

can you argue against the reasoning or what was cited in his points? Or are all you doing is attacking the messenger?

NJRob (121e62) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:00 pm

NEWS: Bad day in magaritaville jimmy buffet RIP same bill richardson. Good news Desatan’s attempt to stop black people having a congressional district in north floriduh stopped by court saying desatan’s racist gerrymandering law against equal protection is unconstitutional.

asset (6ad429) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:11 pm

@133 if you are not a populist it is no longer your party. Trump 59% desatan 13% That leaves less then a quarter And dropping never trumpers. Try the libertarian or no labels party if harold ford and tulsi gabbard can get your vote.

asset (6ad429) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:15 pm

Dec 16, 2020
Edward Snowden exposed the worst 4th Amendment violations in US history: the unlawful collection of data on millions of Americans.

It’s unclear to me that this is wrong.

His fight was on behalf of the American people.

For that @Snowden deserves a pardon from @realDonaldTrump

Well, both of those things are truer than would apply to @realdonaldtrump

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:28 pm

Either gerrymandering is wrong applied to anyone, or it is OK all the time. See Amendment 14.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:30 pm

Keeping It Classy:

………….
Ingraham, like most of her cohorts at Fox News, has spent the past few years portraying Biden as feeble, senile, and mentally incompetent (while also occasionally painting him as the mastermind of a mob-like operation). …………
……………
…………..(E)very member of the Republican conference should have compassionately urged (McConnell) to step aside five weeks ago, which is the last time when this happened. The fact that no one did this to our knowledge is stunning and frankly irresponsible.”
…………..
She continued: “But, Republicans can’t ‘Feinstein’ McConnell. In other words, let him continue on like this. It’s cruel. And it also negates their ability to make Biden’s own decrepit state an issue in 2024.”
……………..

And:

…………..
On X, formerly known as Twitter, Fox News tweeted host Laura Ingraham’s thoughts on Joe Biden and Mitch McConnel’s “capability of working full time.”

The tweet read, “’OBVIOUS SYMPTOMS’: @IngrahamAngle says Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell are “no longer capable of working full time,” argues America has big problems in both parties.”

Fox News also attached a quoted image of Ingraham’s statement that reads, “This is always a tough situation in any family, but in this case- with the authority and power that they have- I have no words for their wives and families who keep pushing them out there.”
……………

Rip Murdock (2490ce) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:31 pm

BuhDuh, the question “will you support Trump even if he is convicted” is irrelevant….the GOP will cease to exist at that point. It will just be a criminal syndicate that spits at the rule of law and elevates insurrectionists. If more than half of the GOP does not see that, then it will lose until it does. I still have hope that once people have to actually vote…and are confronted with this awful choice…their better selfs will emerge.

Haley is not perfect but she was the most lucid and reasonable at the debate. She would represent the GOP fine. I want a candidate who actually acknowledges that the job of President is to lead ALL Americans…and that requires adopting priorities and building coalitions. She and Christie are ones that demonstrated that. DeSantis….not so much….

AJ_Liberty (eb7921) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:32 pm

if you are not a populist it is no longer your party.

You can be a populist and still not want Donald Trump. For example, you can be a Bernie-populist.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:32 pm

BuhDuh, the question “will you support Trump even if he is convicted” is irrelevant

Worse, it’s a hypothetical. It’s like asking a Democrat “Would you support Joe Biden if he was guilty of taking bribes?”

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:34 pm

Haley is not perfect but she was the most lucid and reasonable at the debate. She would represent the GOP fine. I want a candidate who actually acknowledges that the job of President is to lead ALL Americans…and that requires adopting priorities and building coalitions. She and Christie are ones that demonstrated that.

And Christie cannot be elected.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:35 pm

For that @Snowden deserves a pardon from @realDonaldTrump

Why would Trump pardon a Russian citizen?

Rip Murdock (2490ce) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:44 pm

And Christie cannot be elected.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:35 pm

And Haley won’t be nominated.

Rip Murdock (2490ce) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:45 pm

Comedy Gold!

Edward Snowden……….., could be forced to fight for Russia or lose his citizenship should Moscow announce a full-scale mobilization of the population, under a new draft law submitted on Monday.

The draft legislation was submitted to the State Duma, the lower house of Russia’s parliament, by Mikhail Matveev, a lawmaker with the country’s Communist Party. It states that evasion of military service by a person who has been granted Russian citizenship could be considered grounds for its termination, state-run news agency Tass reported.
………….
If signed into law, the bill would only apply to Snowden should Putin impose martial law and declare a full-scale mobilization of the country. ………….
………….

Oh, please make it so!

Rip Murdock (2490ce) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:51 pm

A First Step:

Voters in Iowa’s Warren County voted Tuesday to remove their recently-appointed county auditor who had shared false conspiracy theories about the 9/11 terrorist attacks, QAnon, and the 2020 presidential election, replacing him with the deputy auditor he had placed on leave after she declared her candidacy against him. Iowa’s county auditors oversee elections.

Republican David Whipple’s past social media posts drew local outrage after he was appointed to the post by an all-GOP county supervisors board following the past auditor’s resignation. Enough Warren County residents signed a petition to force a special election, and Kimberly Sheets, a Democrat and the current deputy auditor, ran against him and won.

Sheets captured 66.5% of the vote to Whipple’s 33.4% of the vote in Tuesday’s special election. The Democrat won despite Warren County’s rightward shift in recent years—Donald Trump carried the county, which lies directly to the south of Des Moines, by a 17-point margin in 2020.
…………..

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/2/2023 @ 5:22 pm

Worse, it’s a hypothetical.

Not really considering the context. There was nothing hypothetical about the pledge the candidates took to get on the debate stage. It was a direct question of loyalty to the eventual nominee and they gave direct answers so they would qualify. Trump’s list of indictments was well known to all the candidates when they signed.

The question they were essentially asked on stage was “did you lie when you signed the pledge?” Hutchison had the backbone to say that he did lie. Christie’s hand went up and down like Icarus. And the rest raised their hands in sound-off fashion, one after another, hoping for fan approval.

As near as I can tell AJ’s position is to pray that Haley is going to later reveal that she is a liar as this will restore his confidence in the GOP of lore.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 5:43 pm

Nk,

can you argue against the reasoning or what was cited in his points?

What reasoning? He is making bald assertions which I refuse to accept and do not want to waste my time researching.

Or are all you doing is attacking the messenger?

Not at all. I am giving a reason why I do not take his assertions at face value.

nk (31d774) — 9/2/2023 @ 5:49 pm

A politician who lies? Say it ain’t so!

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/2/2023 @ 5:50 pm

NJRob (121e62) — 9/2/2023 @ 4:00 pm

Why would Trump pardon a Russian citizen?

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/2/2023 @ 5:56 pm

I agree it was a gotcha with regards to the “pledge”…without any sense of how terrible it would be to get to the point where the GOP was running someone from behind bars. Yes or no, do you enjoy beating your child?

The pledge is stupid.

Why? Because the GOP’s titular leader would likely duck it too…and “support” is a nebulous and non-binding term. But more importantly, the debates are the biggest opportunities for these candidates to raise name awareness and develop some momentum.
They HAVE to be there if they want to have a chance. It’s also historically unprecedented for the leading candidate to be under multiple indictments. The party is just trying to screw every non-Trump candidate.

Now I do agree that it would have been incredible if all but Ramaswamy had kept their arms down. What kind of statement would that have made? In addition to possibly disqualifying them from all future debates…could the GOP actually have tried to do that?!!!….it would have been the blunt feedback that the base needs to witness prior to Trump support evaporating before the general.

Here’s a norm: don’t f-ing nominate a candidate in prison…or who might likely be in prison.

AJ_Liberty (eb7921) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:05 pm

And Haley won’t be nominated.

Well, then she’ll be the first nominee of the successor party.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:28 pm

Why would Trump pardon a Russian citizen?

I had to look back to be sure he wasn’t going to pardon Putin.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:28 pm

Sheets captured 66.5% of the vote to Whipple’s 33.4% of the vote in Tuesday’s special election. The Democrat won despite Warren County’s rightward shift in recent years—Donald Trump carried the county, which lies directly to the south of Des Moines, by a 17-point margin in 2020.

Just more proof of The Steal™

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:31 pm

A politician who lies? Say it ain’t so!

Apparently all of the GOP’s previous Perfect Candidates never lied about anything.

#purity

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:32 pm

From what I can see, the GOP will nominate Donald Trump even if he were jailed for high treason. Maybe more so then. Stick it to the Deep State!

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:33 pm

Yeah. The orange pus burst the pustule but the gangrenous flesh is still there.

nk (31d774) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:57 pm

“Apparently all of the GOP’s previous Perfect Candidates never lied about anything.”

The question isn’t has he ever lied…but does he do it persistently and comprehensively…about the justice system, about the election, about his rivals, his business dealings, about Putin and Ukraine, about J6, hell…probably about raping E. Jean Carroll. It’s ok that you don’t see a difference…you’ve spent 8 years rationalizing it. He’s you…and you know it.

AJ_Liberty (eb7921) — 9/2/2023 @ 7:28 pm

“And Haley won’t be nominated.”

If Trump is convicted, there’s no telling what happens. It will be a contested convention…and instead if people rally to Trump….then, again, it’s the end of the GOP…and I vote Democrat to add one more vote on top of the rotten casket.

AJ_Liberty (eb7921) — 9/2/2023 @ 7:34 pm

Who knew that Mexico City was mostly a lake. Here’s a fascinating reconstruction via Lyman Stone, and it’s too bad it was filled in just the last century or so. It would’ve made for a much cooler city with the lake intact.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 7:39 pm

And Haley won’t be nominated.

Well, then she’ll be the first nominee of the successor party.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 6:28 pm

LOL! Not in time for 2024. And in 2028 nobody will remember her.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/2/2023 @ 7:43 pm

If Trump is convicted, there’s no telling what happens.

Which is why Trump is pushing for his trials to begin as late as possible. As many of the polls that I have posted show, Trump voters will vote for him come hell or high water.

During the election interference trial, up to 70% of Republican delegates will have already been selected. Heck, the race could be over after the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary. If Trump wins both, it’s game over. No one else will have the momentum to overtake him.

If Trump is denied the nomination after winning the primaries and caucuses, there likely will be split between Trump’s supporters (by far a majority of Republican voters in that case) just as there will be a split if he is the nominee against the Democrats.

Maybe the Republican Party, so far from its roots and core values, deserves to die.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:03 pm

Some lies are ok.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:14 pm

It will be a contested convention……..

Unlikely, as that would require a strong opponent who could appeal to both a majority of Trump delegates (and voters) and anti-Trump voters (a small minority of the Republican Party), and has won a substantial share of delegates.

So far that someone has not appeared. It’s getting close to various state deadlines to appear on their primary ballots, so if no one makes a move before the end of the year, there will be no savior.

And if the anti-Trump delegates (and voters) expect someone from the outside to ride on a white horse but who hasn’t run through the nomination process, that would tear the convention apart.

It will make great TV though.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:15 pm

I skipped a sentence.

Should be “Some lies are ok. This is especially true when it is your preferred old school GOP candidate.”

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:17 pm

“If Trump wins both, it’s game over. No one else will have the momentum to overtake him.”

A good chunk of the GOP still wants to win….and a court case (maybe historically televised) that lays out in ugly detail the evidence that FNC hides from its viewers and produces a guilty verdict…will leave them confronting the reality that Trump simply won’t win moderates and independents…and will lose in the toss-up states.

Yes, no poll says that…but how could it since it’s not happened yet? People assume based on what they’ve been told that he will wiggle free yet again. But what if he doesn’t? Trump’s support will crater down to his 30% fanatics. The rest will drive a contested convention.

People who voted early in the primary season will want a do-over. Hell, there will be a really good argument…having the candidate for chief law enforcement officer heading to prison… to send the nomination to the floor. I’m rooting for people to do the right thing. You are free to root for whatever it is that you are rooting for.

AJ_Liberty (eb7921) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:31 pm

LOL! Not in time for 2024. And in 2028 nobody will remember her.

Admit it Rip. Women in politics bother you.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 10:43 pm

“If Trump wins both, it’s game over. No one else will have the momentum to overtake him.”

Game over indeed. I wonder what they will call the new party.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 10:44 pm

The rest will drive a contested convention.

Many state laws require a vote for the pledged candidate for the first few ballots. I suspect more of these laws (and/or party rules) will be passed in the coming months just for this reason.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 10:47 pm

You are free to root for whatever it is that you are rooting for.

I’m rooting, as I do every year, for Cal to win the NCAAF championship. That doesn’t mean I’d bet a nickel it will happen.

The Trump supporter has been given every opportunity, opportunities any sane, principled conservative electorate would have jumped at long ago, to put down the crack pipe. Precious few have. From impugning McCain’s war record, to the pu$$y-grabber tape, to openly favoring our enemies over our allies, to the Mueller Report and SSIC documented obstructions of justice, and so so much more… each time we were assured his voters would come to their senses. Instead, the more depraved he was shown to be, the more fawning and intractable they became.

Then Jan.6 happened. The GOP Congressional leadership was finally awakened from its moral lethargy, even if it took having their lives threatened to do it. At last this was the earthquake that would unalterably rob Trump of his political oxygen. And that lapse into sanity lasted what? About thirty seconds? So when 5 indictments encompassing 91 felony counts left his approval rating among GOP voters at around 70%, was a single person on Planet Earth still surprised?

Maybe you’re right. Maybe a criminal conviction or 20 will be the bride too far. Maybe 2024 will indeed be the year his supporters start denying they ever really liked him. Or even knew him. “Donald who, you say?” I sure hope so for all our sakes. But at this point, I doubt even Charlie Brown would continue kicking at the football. (To be clear, “kicking” in this metaphor is the belief, not the effort. By all means, go on trying.)

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:17 am

*bridge too far*

If I wasn’t so tired I’d insist that “bride too far” was what I meant all along.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:29 am

@147 Check out structuralism. The standard structure that is used is the catholic church. Look at the democrat party and joe biden. It reminds me of the end of the movie EL CID.

asset (0a63a0) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:19 am

I don’t attack others here ;but this is the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result with every poll taken. You are not ignorant southern white trash democrat populists who now vote republican. That is why you don’t understand. I am NON-ignorant southern white trash populist democrat (and part native american) so I do understand that they will not change their hatred of the same people that trump hates. I have lived around them all my life I know who they hate and why. They were just waiting for a trump to come along to kick you bill buckley conservatives to the curb! You don’t like social security and medicare we populists do!

asset (0a63a0) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:31 am

@30. “All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes.”

Liars! Trump obviously wanted to hop into the Mystery Machine with Scooby and Shaggy and the, gang drive to GA, enter the Secretary of State’s office, and investigate. He had his trusty flashlight and giant magnifying glass at the ready. Using his powers of detection and the loyalty of his cartoon pals, Trump would prevail and ultimately “find” exactly 11,780 votes, or — let’s be honest, a few more wouldn’t hurt — and prevail in the election, thus saving Democracy forever. (Not really because that still isn’t enough to give him the W).

Anyone asserting that Trump had anything in mind besides he himself “finding” votes is an incredibly dishonest liar who should apologize to Trump and his intrepied cartoon pals. :p

JRH (edda14) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:08 am

“Maybe a criminal conviction or 20 will be the bride too far.”

I was fine with “bride”. When you’re on a roll, you roll. Boon would advocate for nothing less.

I get that the Republican party fervently believes all of these charges are political, that the politics of twisting arms is now grotesquely being criminalized, and that everything is being exaggerated because Trump has struck a nerve with the elites and deep staters.

We live in a time where Trump can sit by watching the Capitol police get mauled for 3 hours….while his closest advisors and family beg him to call off the dogs…and his faithful say, in effect, better put some ice on that. The response is, well that was only a couple of thousand at most, WE’RE not all bad. So, it turns from accountability for the President to a weird self-defense of Trumpism generally.

But what of the accountability for riling up the crowd, siccing them on the Capitol, and watching to see if they could secure the delay he pathologically wanted? Crickets. Roll the eyes and move on to the emotional safety of Hunter’s laptop and Joe’s OBVIOUS, if unproven, bribes. J6 is an MSNBC topic, one left for Liz Cheney, not one for my team.

Trump refuses to return classified documents after be given months of opportunities to do so…the faithful can’t understand the fuss. Biden, Pence, heck they all hold onto documents…except they don’t when asked to return them…and cooperate. Accountability? Nahhh. Circle the wagon. Change the subject…go back to Russian collusion and the pee-tape…deflect, distract, deceive…whatever it takes. Follow Hannity’s and Tucker’s lead. Fight harder. Like Rudy Guiliani, in for a penny, in for a pound. Keep spinning. Win through exhaustion.

Yet with all of that (and more), the primary vote still presents absolution. A moment to say, enough….to support the rule of law and election finality. To vote for a new direction that casts off personality worship and the politics of salt-the-earth destruction. It would be nice to get back to contrasting Republicanism with Democrat leadership…rather than tearing apart institution after institution to protect one man. The Trump path is so tiny…do better.

AJ_Liberty (4f5c5d) — 9/3/2023 @ 7:12 am

Regarding my Dmitry story above, Russians crossing the southern border is a thing.

When it comes to Russians crossing the southern U.S. land border, the latest statistics are staggering.

There could be more than 60,000 Russian citizens encountered by U.S. border agents this year if the pace holds up from recent months — that’s triple last year’s level and more than 60 times the pre-pandemic rates.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/3/2023 @ 7:34 am

Some lies are ok.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:14 pm

I’ll be even more skeptical of your posts now.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 7:55 am

LOL! Not in time for 2024. And in 2028 nobody will remember her.

Admit it Rip. Women in politics bother you.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/2/2023 @ 10:43 pm

No, just her.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 8:11 am

If you tried to pick a politician who didn’t lie, you wouldn’t vote for anyone, but Trump has always crossed a line for me because he lies about everything.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/3/2023 @ 8:20 am

AJ_Liberty (eb7921) — 9/2/2023 @ 8:31 pm

I’m not rooting for Trump to the nominee, but based on almost all polling to date, he still has nearly 2/3 support of Republican voters and even higher approval ratings. As I’ve linked to before, Nate Cohn’s analysis shows that if the election interference trial begins on the Monday before Super Tuesday, by the time it ends (4-6 weeks later) about 70% of the delegates will have been selected.

And rather than showing Trump’s guilt, the trial may end up as a rallying cry for his supporters and others joining the Trump bandwagon.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 8:22 am

A (Somewhat) Contrary View:

Is the 2024 Republican presidential primary already over? If you just look at the polls, you’d be forgiven for thinking so………
……………
To account for this uncertainty, I wrote a crude statistical model to translate national polling averages at this point in past campaigns into odds of winning presidential nominations. This model gives us a way of answering a key question of polling analysis: How durable is Candidate X’s lead given historical ranges of movement and measurement error in the polls?
……………
…………(H)istorically, only a handful of candidates were polling around 50 percent nationally at this point in the cycle. Thanks to that small sample size, Trump’s “true” win probability could be as low as 54 percent.
……………
To put the scale of Trump’s (national polling) lead into perspective, I ran the early national polls of all presidential nomination contests since 1972 through our primary polling average model. During that span, only four non-incumbents (out of 124 for whom we have early national polling data) have polled at Trump’s level (50 percent) or better as of the end of August of the year before the election.
…………..
That track record suggests Trump has a good chance of winning the nomination. We can use a logistic regression model to estimate a presidential candidate’s chances of winning their party’s nod given their off-year August polling numbers. Based on that model, a generic presidential candidate polling at Trump’s level today would have about a 78 percent chance of winning their party’s nomination. ………….

Of course, in part due to small sample size, primaries are notoriously hard to predict. ……….. Betting markets — which have the advantage of looking at data other than polling — put Trump’s chances closer to 66 percent.

………… Trump’s odds of winning today are close to what we would call “likely” or “probable” rather than “certain” or “highly likely.” Believe it or not, there’s still a decent shot one of his rivals could win.

Based on where they’re polling today, my crude model says DeSantis and Ramaswamy have a 13 percent and 8 percent chance, respectively, of winning the nomination as of today. The other of Trump’s competitors currently polling above 1 percent in our national average — former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, former Vice President Mike Pence, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Senator Tim Scott— have around a 4-5 percent chance each.

If one of Trump’s competitors takes the lead, it’s likely they’ll do so by scoring some key upsets in the early-voting states. ………….

Make no mistake: Trump will be hard for his Republican opponents to beat. He has a broad base of support and a smaller but intensely devoted group of followers who think he can do no wrong. But he is not inevitable.
############

Footnotes omitted. Paragraph breaks added.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:00 am

LOL, Rip!

Your butchered quote does not surprise anyone.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:00 am

“I’m not rooting for Trump to [be] the nominee”

What in our lifetime would be worse than a President getting elected and his first act is to pardon himself, followed by ripping apart the DoJ and inserting replacements based solely on loyalty, loyalty to his innocence? The same President who would likely still be facing state charges. The Supreme Court will then be thrust into deciding whether a self pardon is even constitutional. The questions become can our system withstand it, will violence erupt, and will our enemies take advantage of the chaos? No one can be optimistic about it all.

That’s if Trump wins, what if he loses? Thankfully, he no longer holds the reins of power so martial law and wag-the-dog plays are not options. But a loss would mean a cornered animal staring potentially at spending the rest of his life in a cage…or hoping for a commutation from an opponent that he will likely savage. All of the Trump hanger-on’s will be equally desperate to keep the Trump show playing to keep the grift going. Again, a grave probability for violence, lawlessness, and chaos. Can the system withstand it? Are we eager to find out?

So, as against the odds as it is, for the good of the country, Trump cannot be the nominee. And any person that provides even a slim chance of opposition gets my support. Yes, I want all the candidates to paint this dire picture to guilt support from Trump, and we need right-leaning media to deal honestly with reality. We need Evangelicals to lose the King Cyrus analogies and support a leader of character.

I reject the notion that violence and chaos have to be inevitable. I also reject the suggestion that good men and women cannot rise to the occasion and show leadership. It ain’t over until it’s over. Few people I know watched the debate. Many have still not tuned in to the issues. We are measuring inertia. There are still dynamics that can change this election.

AJ_Liberty (4f5c5d) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:18 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mEbhlSMcCno

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:22 am

BuDuh’s #121 is a good addition to the thread. I’d love it if one of the lawyers addresses it with something more than a crank wrote it. (Sorry nk) My observation is that the headline and thesis has the usual problem of MAGA media: a screaming headline based firmly on a false equivalency. I think we can agree that there is an easily obvious distinction between what may be aggressive legal positions in a Fani Willis filing, and a scheme to create false electoral college electors for the purpose of reassigning Georgia’s vote from Biden to Trump.

But the direct criticism of Willis’ filing may have validity.

Appalled (3a322d) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:28 am

Should be “Some lies are ok….”

Some lies are expected in a politician. Various reasons, some noble, some not so much (e.g. pandering). But when a politician frequently lies (or always lies) to the point where his contact with truth is suspect, that’s different.

I’m sure that Reagan told lies. He certainly told stories that were not strictly true to get a point across. That does not mean that his career was built on lies. Even Nixon did not lie when he didn’t need to lie.

But Trump (and now Ratsaswarmy) have entire careers based on lies. Lying is what they do. They wouldn’t know the truth if it hit them with a baseball bat (as Trump is about to experience).

There are differences of kind and differences of degree. Trump is different on both counts. EVERYTHING he says, including the date and time, is probably a lie.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:33 am

I am not sure that anyone is disputing that they have preferred liars.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:41 am

Appalled,

I see it as an objection to early discovery of evidence that also bears on later trials. While I understand that, I don’t see how she can get past the 8th Amendment right to a speedy trial for those defendants that demand it. She appears to want to coerce them into withdrawing their demands, but seems more likely to damage her case against them or provide a basis for appeal.

There is also the chance that she may be forced to drop charges against those defendants if early discovery is a huge problem, as the material will come out at the (very public) October trial anyway.

I see this as a problem she generated with her wide net and I think she’s going to have to live with it.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:42 am

I am not sure that anyone is disputing that they have preferred liars.

I can’t see anyone disputing that Trump is a congenital liar who has only fleeting contact with the truth.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:44 am

Partially pregnant is better than fully pregnant.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:50 am

LOL, Rip!

Your butchered quote does not surprise anyone.

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:00 am

As I said in the past, what a person says first reveals their true feelings, revisions come only when they realize they have revealed too much of themselves.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:05 am

So, as against the odds as it is, for the good of the country, Trump cannot be the nominee. ………..

You won’t get any argument from me, but until his personal appeal changes among Republican voters, I don’t see how he loses the nomination.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:10 am

A good start would be for a majority of Republican voters to accept that Joe Biden is the legitimate President of the United States.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:17 am

As I said in the past, what a person says first reveals their true feelings, revisions come only when they realize they have revealed too much of themselves.

LOL!!!!!!

BudDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:27 am

Hitting “post” too soon violates Rip’s Rules of Debate. Posting a correction within a few minutes is not allowed.

😢

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:29 am

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:29 am

Trolling the troll.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:46 am

LOL!

BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:47 am

I can’t see anyone disputing that Trump is a congenital liar who has only fleeting contact with the truth.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 9:44 am

Along with his new mini-me, Vivek.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:50 am

Trump Has Fans:

…………..
Joseph Biggs, a member of the far-right Proud Boys, was sentenced to 17 years in prison for playing a leading role in the Capitol attack. Zachary Rehl, president of the group’s Philadelphia branch, received 15 years in prison.

Biggs was one of four Proud Boys convicted of seditious conspiracy, the most serious charge brought in connection with the Jan. 6 attack by a mob of Donald Trump’s supporters aiming to keep him in power despite his losing the November 2020 election. ………….
……………
“What happened on Jan. 6 harmed an important American custom,” U.S. District Judge Timothy J. Kelly said. “That day broke our tradition of peacefully transferring power, which is among the most precious things that we had as Americans. Notice I said ‘had.’ We don’t have it anymore.”
………….
Prosecutors had asked for a 33-year sentence for Biggs and Tarrio—the longest sought in any of the Jan. 6 trials—and for a 30-year sentence for Rehl.
…………..
Wearing an orange prison jumpsuit and speaking through tears, Biggs said shortly before the sentence was handed down: “On Jan. 6, I was seduced by the crowd.”
……………
Rehl, also choking back tears, needed to pause several times to collect himself when speaking to the judge in advance of sentencing. He offered an implicit rebuke of Trump, saying he had fallen “hook, line and sinker” for political lies about the 2020 campaign.
………….
“They pushed us to the edge of a constitutional crisis,” prosecutor Jason McCullough said in arguing for Biggs to serve more than three decades behind bars. “They aimed to intimidate and terrify elected officials, law enforcement and the rest of the country that they didn’t agree with and make them heel to their political point of view.”
…………….
Crocodile tears. They both caught a sentencing break from the court.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:19 am

Italicized comments are my own.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:20 am

Lieing is not like being pregnant, it’s like speeding. Almost everyone speeds a little bit, but there’s a big difference between going 70 on the freeway and going 120 through the neighborhood school zone even though both are speeding.

Nic (896fdf) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:38 am

Trump Has Fans II:

Dominic Pezzola, a Proud Boy who smashed a Capitol window with a stolen police riot shield, was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison on Friday.

Pezzola was the only one of the five defendants in the Proud Boys trial who was not convicted of the top charge of seditious conspiracy. Prosecutors had sought 20 years for him.

Ethan Nordean, the former president of the Seattle Proud Boys chapter and one of Pezzola’s co-defendants, was sentenced to 18 years in prison later Friday, tying the record for the longest Jan. 6 sentence to date. ……….

Prosecutors had sought 27 years in prison for Nordean, who was also convicted on five other felony charges earlier this year.
……………
Extensive video evidence documented Pezzola’s actions at the Capitol on Jan. 6, including a video he filmed inside after leading the breach. He was found guilty of assaulting, resisting or impeding certain officers, as well as stealing the police shield and other charges in May.

“Pezzola’s actions showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that he had intended to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct,” prosecutors wrote. “While sparring with police who were trying to quell the mob’s advance, Pezzola robbed an officer of his riot shield. Rather than taking actions consistent with his self-professed motive of self-defense, Pezzola celebrated, posing with the shield while flashing the Proud Boys hand gesture, and chanting ‘USA! USA!’ While holding the shield above his head triumphantly.”
………….
While being led out of the courtroom after Kelly had departed, Pezzola turned towards the audience, raised one fist and shouted, “Trump won!”

Another Jan. 6 participant, Danny Rodriguez, also yelled “Trump won!” after he was sentenced to 12.5 years in June for driving a stun gun into former Washington, D.C. police officer Michael Fanone’s neck.
###########

An overly generous sentencing break. Like the other reduced sentences, it will only encourage others to try to change election results they don’t like.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:39 am

Partially pregnant is better than fully pregnant.

You arguments are getting more and more difficult to reply to within the rules. But I’ll try, knowing that you will ignore the meaning and reply with something else crazier.

Trump is a sociopathic and constant liar. Other people occasionally shade the truth, Trump neither knows what the truth is, not does he care much.

This is the difference between a gal who is often pregnant and someone who sometimes lets a boy get handsy.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:49 am

You won’t get any argument from me, but until his personal appeal changes among Republican voters, I don’t see how he loses the nomination.

Watch and learn.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:51 am

Watch and learn.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:51 am

LOL!

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:53 am

If sex scandals, being a former registered Democrat, multiple divorces, and four indictments won’t dent Trump’s popularity among Republican voters, nothing will.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:58 am

Convictions and jail might. If not, well, he’s not in the bet of health. Let’s see what a year of existential stress will do.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:04 pm

Convictions and jail might.

It is unlikely Trump will be convicted of anything before the majority of Republican delegates are selected. When Republicans go to vote on Super Tuesday, Trump will still be presumed innocent.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:23 pm

I draw the line at liars who lie in furtherance of breaking the law or violating the Constitution.

Most politicians exaggerate policy facts to serve up red meat to their base support or rationalize the urgency to vote for them. For instance, some might claim “crime is at an all-time high” when clearly it was much higher in the 80’s and early 90’s. Is it a lie, an honest misstatement of fact, or was the intent to say, in the past 20 years? Was the goal to purposefully misinform people? I would say “no” as people see more crime now than in recent memory. Or something like, “all medicines in your drugstore are made in China,” when obviously it’s hyperbole to underscore China’s trade practices. Though it’s an exaggeration, it captures a truth about trade practices. Again, lies or overdramatization? In the end, is the goal to distinguish policies, to lead people to make bad decisions, or is it to cover up crimes or rationalize other criminal behavior?

So Trump too indulges this practice liberally. The examples are myriad. It’s not always clear whether wrong statements are ignorance or intentional. Trump would say outrageous things about eliminating the debt or how he would end illegal immigration with a big a beautiful wall. I would hope that other candidates and the media would fact check them when the implications are especially important. These are problematic but a functioning democracy should be able to dampen their effects. Hopefully someone wrong on the facts too often would lose trust with the public.

But Trump’s lies about the election go beyond ignorance or exaggeration. They were purposeful and part of a criminal conspiracy to defraud voters. One can say “I was robbed” every day and every where, though at some point it obviously diminishes one’s credibility…and it becomes tedious (reference the Obama birth certificate claims). And legally, individuals have the right to exhaust all claims in court and to independently investigate and report those findings. One doesn’t have the right to incite violence and disrupt a congressional proceeding because of a lie, even if you really wished it was true. That’s where Trump’s lies become more than politicking. His misstatements during covid could have been ignorance or purposeful. I have less sympathy because those misstatements could have had dire health consequences for people.

But BuhDuh is just trolling because he’s likely smart enough to understand these distinctions. Now he may also be a moral nihilist and believes that all politicians are tragically flawed, and so go with the personality you prefer best. I don’t know because BuhDuh loves gotcha more than building his own point. I think Trump is a character mess with negative implications across the board. All of his rivals minus Ramaswamy appear to have a better sense of right vs. wrong…and a better fidelity to the truth. The willingness to weaponize propaganda is exacerbated by a right wing media’s willingness to protect him. I’ll never see the attraction…

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:23 pm

And even if convicted, Trump undoubtedly will not be remanded to jail immediately, there will be years of appeals.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:25 pm

Julia Davis’ Russia Media Monitor is great… when she sticks to Russian Media. If you are like me and can do without more commentary on US political follies, go to The Kremlin Yap instead
https://twitter.com/TheKremlinYap?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

steveg (9c3ce6) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:41 pm

“It is unlikely Trump will be convicted of anything before the majority of Republican delegates are selected.”

Well, that should be the goal of the other campaigns: educate the electorate about what it means to nominate a candidate who might be convicted and will be facing additional charges. This is where the media could be helpful as well, but right-wing media seems unable to square this issue. No one votes until January 15th. That’s 134 days to build a narrative. Over 4 months where none of this goes away and Trump will be limited as to what he can say. That seems like a lot of time.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:48 pm

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:48 pm

All of the Republican candidates that raised their hands at the debate have said they will support a pardon for Trump.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:51 pm

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:51 pm

They don’t want to make a serious case against Trump.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:53 pm

Keeping It Classy II:

………. (Dylan Quattrucci, the deputy state director of Donald Trump’s New Hampshire campaign) was present at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6th, 2021.
………………
One of the posts shows a livestream post with Quattrucci addressing the camera, headlined: “D.C. at the Capitol. Just got tear gassed.”

Another shows a hand with a minor abrasion on the pinky finger holding a white cowboy hat. It says, “I’m bleeding for my country. You’ll have to kill me to stop my #FightForTrump”

Another post states: “Mike Pence is a traitor to America”

Another says, “We’re not gonna take it” with a location stamp of the United States Capitol, and a photo showing a vantage point from outside the Capitol looking down at the gathered crowd.
…………….
…………….(The Trump campaign in New Hampshire) does not deny the authenticity of the posts or Quattrucci’s presence at the Capitol on Jan. 6.
……………

More:

(Dylan Quattrucci, the) No. 2 official in New Hampshire on Donald Trump’s presidential campaign told police to kill themselves in an expletive-ridden Jan. 6 video shot close to the U.S. Capitol………..

“If you are a police officer and are going to abide by unconstitutional bulls—, I want you to do me a favor right now and go hang yourself, because you’re a piece of s—,” ………. “Go f— yourself.”

Four officers who responded to the riot on Jan. 6, 2021, later died by suicide. ………..

Two people who are familiar with Quattrucci confirmed to NBC News that the man in the video is him. …………..
……………..
In a separate YouTube video, Quattrucci talks about members of Congress who were locked down because of the riot.

“This is nuts, this is history, this is America, we love our president, let’s gooooo!” he says in the video.
…………..

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:09 pm

Rip- Human beings will cheat at anything, anything but voting I guess. Seems odd and unlikely, but the FBI says it didn’t happen.
Poll after poll show both Republicans and Democrats think the current system is ripe for fraud.
Weird how there was none.
I’ll put it this way: Joe Biden is the elected President of the USA by the elections standards of 2020.
I would greatly prefer to say that phrase to the standards pre- ballot harvesting where people had to go into a polling place, show ID, sign for the ballot, fill it out onsite.
Surprisingly, I have several friends who are law abiding rules followers.
None of them can believe that an election held at the 2020 standards could have been fair.
When I tell them Bill Barr said he had the DOJ check into it and they found no widespread fraud, they just say they don’t believe Barr and the DOJ.
They point to authorities saying “crime is down” because they stopped enforcing the laws. Speeding is down on the I-5 because they don’t ticket anyone 78MPH or under.
It isn’t just voting fraud, it is that they feel like the citizen/law enforcement contract has been broken by law enforcement.

steveg (9c3ce6) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:18 pm

AJ suggested I keep commenting.
BuDuh (050ad1) — 9/1/2023 @ 2:16 pm

I add my voice to AJ’s; please keep commenting DuDuh, you are doing very well.

felipe (d8b619) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:49 pm

norcal (91e8db) — 9/1/2023 @ 3:00 pm

Maybe they are targeting the deaf community as customers? Either way, I’m interested in how this story would get the David Mamet treatment.

felipe (d8b619) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:01 pm

But BuhDuh is just trolling because he’s likely smart enough to understand these distinctions. Now he may also be a moral nihilist and believes that all politicians are tragically flawed, and so go with the personality you prefer best. I don’t know because BuhDuh loves gotcha more than building his own point.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/3/2023 @ 12:23 pm

When one has spent years running interference for Trump, it would be lethal to one’s ego to admit error. Sunk Cost Fallacy is a bitch.

norcal (1174d1) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:09 pm

Maybe they are targeting the deaf community as customers?

felipe (d8b619) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:01 pm

That would make sense.

“These properties are pristine, except for one thing that doesn’t apply to you.”

norcal (1174d1) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:12 pm

And even if convicted, Trump undoubtedly will not be remanded to jail immediately, there will be years of appeals.

He will be removed from many state ballots, even if that defaults the election to Biden (or especially if it does). And they might just jail him as a “clear and present danger” to the Republic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:15 pm

All of the Republican candidates that raised their hands at the debate have said they will support a pardon for Trump.

“Consider” != “support.”

Besides, if he can’t win he’ll absolutely need to have some other Republican elected if he wants to get a pardon.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:16 pm

Speaking of term limits for the elderly, I have a friend who will turn 80 very soon that supports term limits, but only when it involves Republicans. Yes, I too, am annoyed at how long-serving officeholders can outlive their critics and sometimes their supporters patience, but this is true in every human endeavor – We can all be old men in the sea if allowed, which is wrong – but what is also wrong, is that Feinstein is not the only one suffering elder abuse.

felipe (d8b619) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:20 pm

I add my voice to AJ’s; please keep commenting DuDuh, you are doing very well.
felipe (d8b619) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:49 pm

Apologies! BuDuh! I am an old man in the sea.

felipe (d8b619) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:31 pm

steveg (9c3ce6) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:18 pm

Since managing elections is mostly a state responsibility, it really is to them to enforce voting laws, not the federal government.

Personally, I don’t like to go to polling places. The lines are too long and you’re always standing behind someone who can’t figure out how to use the voting machine. Being naturally anti-social means I hate crowds (unless it’s at the movies).

I much prefer sitting at the dining room table with my girlfriend going through our ballots and mailing it in.

The lack of substantive voter fraud means that the systems in place are working (though some Republican states are deliberately weakening the system in place to prevent voting in different states by the same person).

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:38 pm

He will be removed from many state ballots, even if that defaults the election to Biden (or especially if it does). And they might just jail him as a “clear and present danger” to the Republic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:15 pm

LOL!

What states grant their Secretaries of State the authority to remove an otherwise qualified candidate from the ballot for a criminal conviction? (Since Trump is not charged with insurrection or incitement Section 3 of 14th Amendment wouldn’t apply.)

And what authority under the Constitution allows the federal government to imprison someone “as a clear and present danger to the Republic” especially for a nonviolent offense?

Assuming if any of these actions occurred (which I clearly doubt) they would be litigated long past November 2024.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:54 pm

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 2:54 pm

University of Iowa law professor Derek Muller said the Constitution’s 14th Amendment spells out who would be unable to run for federal office. The list includes those who took an oath to support the U.S. Constitution and then engaged in insurrection or rebellion, or those who gave aid or comfort to the country’s enemies.

“That’s the only thing that expressly disqualifies you under the Constitution,” he said.

Source

State laws that restrict a person convicted of a felony would not apply to someone running in a federal election.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 3:08 pm

Almost everyone speeds a little bit, but there’s a big difference between going 70 on the freeway and going 120 through the neighborhood school zone even though both are speeding.

Nic (896fdf) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:38 am

A much more accurate analogy, Nic

norcal (1174d1) — 9/3/2023 @ 3:17 pm

— Everybody pees in the pool.
— From the diving board?

nk (8e9f7c) — 9/3/2023 @ 3:40 pm

What states grant their Secretaries of State the authority to remove an otherwise qualified candidate from the ballot for a criminal conviction? (Since Trump is not charged with insurrection or incitement Section 3 of 14th Amendment wouldn’t apply.)

It ends up in state court, at least. Since presidential elections are conducted in the states, it may be a state decision on whether the 14th Amendment applies. Or it may go to the Supreme Court, which probably says it’s a state decision. New Hampshire will probably try to get him off the state primary ballot. We’ll see how that goes.

Of course, there is the popular reaction that could occur, but tht just shows how dangerous Donald Trump is — he would destroy the country to get his way. Already has, mostly.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 3:55 pm

State laws that restrict a person convicted of a felony would not apply to someone running in a federal election.

A presidential election is a state election. The federal election occurs at the Electoral College.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 3:57 pm

A state could, for example, require that a candidate need to get 60% of the state’s vote. Failing that the legislature would choose the electors. Given that, there seems to be no rule other than barring post-election rule changes.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:06 pm

Assuming if any of these actions occurred (which I clearly doubt) they would be litigated long past November 2024.

Just like Bush v Gore was?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:07 pm

What states grant their Secretaries of State the authority to remove an otherwise qualified candidate from the ballot for a criminal conviction?

“otherwise qualified”

LOL.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:11 pm

Rip
I hate crowds as well.
As a confirmed hypocrite, I signed up for absentee voting years ago when it was first offered. At the time, I was moving frequently.
I switched back once my situation stabilized. Voting is easy in my town, never had to wait. In and out in under 10 minutes.

steveg (9c3ce6) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:37 pm

nk
I object to the lifeguards peeing off the lifeguard stand, then kicking me out for splashing.

steveg (9c3ce6) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:41 pm

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 3:55 pm

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 3:57 pm

Trump’s challenges to the 2020 election were heard in Federal courts, not state courts.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:06 pm

LOL! Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Do you know of a state that is considering this?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:11 pm

An example of a convicted felon not being prohibited from running for federal office:

Earlier this month, on the two-year anniversary of his participation in the attack on the U.S. Capitol, former West Virginia state lawmaker Derrick Evans announced he would run for a U.S. House seat in 2024. That’s despite pleading guilty to a felony civil disorder charge in 2022.

With his felony conviction and a sentence that includes three years of probation, state law would prohibit Evans from voting or seeking state or local office. Under that law, even when he finishes his sentence he would be unable to run again for the legislature or for magistrate, a limited judicial post that is open to non-lawyers.

There are no such limits to run for federal office.
……………
Donald Kersey III, deputy secretary and general counsel for the West Virginia secretary of state’s office, said Evans was not convicted of insurrection or treason and therefore appears eligible to run for Congress.

States cannot bar convicted felons from running for federal office. So no state would be able to bar him from their ballot.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:45 pm

steveg (9c3ce6) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:37 pm

You must not live in a major metropolitan area.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:47 pm

States cannot bar convicted felons from running for federal office. So no state would be able to bar him from their ballot.

See also Lyndon LaRouche and Eugene Debs, both who ran for president from prison.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 4:52 pm

Trump’s challenges to the 2020 election were heard in Federal courts, not state courts.

Mostly to get dismissed as not relevant to federal court, such as TX v PA.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:03 pm

LOL! Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Do you know of a state that is considering this?

You are being intentionally obtuse.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:03 pm

There are no such limits to run for federal office.

It’s very strange, I know, that Congressional elections are federal, but presidential elections are state affairs. That pesky Constitution.

Art I, Section 4:

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations…

Art 2, Section 1 (portion not amended by A12):

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress:

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:09 pm

What do you point to that says that a state may not bar a felon from serving as an Elector (pretty sure most do), or Electors being pledged to a felon candidate?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:12 pm

Hell, in my state they will appoint electors who are pledge to someone who lost in the state. Yours, too, not that it matters there.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:13 pm

You are being intentionally obtuse.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:03 pm

Your arguments are fanciful and are based on your opinion only.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:15 pm

What do you point to that says that a state may not bar a felon from serving as an Elector (pretty sure most do), or Electors being pledged to a felon candidate?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:12 pm

According to this, the states have delegated to their political parties (or candidates) the selection of electors, so I assume each party sets the personal qualifications for their electors.

The only Constitutional restriction is that electors cannot be incumbent US Senators, congressional representatives or persons holding an office of trust or profit of the United States.

For example, here are the Florida statutes related to electors, and there is nothing barring a felon serving as an elector or any prohibition against voting for a candidate convicted of a felony.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:43 pm

“In and out in under 10 minutes.”

Hmmm, there’s a sex joke in there somewhere…oh yeah…there it is

AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/3/2023 @ 5:54 pm

If Trump stays over at 40% or 50%, then yes, Larry Hogan should throw his hat in as the No Labels candidate. Open the door, all the way.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:05 pm

I like Hogan. He would certainly pose an intriguing 3rd option for many people. I wonder if there would be any red states that he could win outright. Maybe on the east coast? I suppose it depends on his messaging. Personally I don’t think he has to be overly bold. Limit yourself to 3 or 4 things you want to do (or less) and sell yourself as being competent and able to work on both sides of the aisle. The bar is pretty low….he’s neither deluded or a mumbler….

AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:17 pm

If Trump stays over at 40% or 50%, then yes, Larry Hogan should throw his hat in as the No Labels candidate. Open the door, all the way.

And elect Trump. Good times!

Seriously, if someone can show how a third party wins 270 electoral votes I’m in. WhoooHooooo!

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:35 pm

As asset is fond to point out, Biden by winning a few states by ten of thousands of votes. If those votes now go to a third party, welcome to our nightmare.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:39 pm

I wonder if there would be any red states that he could win outright.

If Hogan (or whomever) isn’t running to win, what’s the point?

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:44 pm

The Plain Klothes Klan knows that Trump needs them in a cynical way. David Duke made that clear in Charlottesville. They will stick with him only as long as he advances their agenda.

But I think that the larger segment of his supporters like the fact that he needs them in a sentimental, Stevie Wonder song way. It shows in the contributions spikes after every indictment. And I doubt that anyone could alienate their affections.

nk (400be8) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:58 pm

Although I hope Hogan-the-No-Labels candidate is eligible in all 50 states, I’d be voting for him in protest of the two major political offering dreck and senility, not in expectation of winning, but you never know.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:59 pm

Paul, only Jesse Ventura has been able to pull off an outright statewide third party victory in the past 25 years (1998, MN Governor), with Tom Tancredo coming closest (CO governor, 2010).

urbanleftbehind (542c6a) — 9/3/2023 @ 7:28 pm

And Biden could stroke out a week from election day. On so many levels, Biden v. Trump will be horrible for our system. The clock is ticking on Joe getting out of his own accord.

AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/3/2023 @ 7:41 pm

There’s also Joe Lieberman and Lisa Murkowski.
The difference this time around is that both front-running candidates have such serious baggage (an unhinged criminal on the right and a mentally diminished incumbent with an incompetent VP on the left) that a substantial number of Americans may seriously consider Door #3, with Hogan as a legitimate contender or at least a protest vote, but Hogan would be stronger than the Whackadoodle With A Bad Haircut in 1992 because he’s not a paranoid nut like Perot, who won 19% of the popular vote but no electoral votes. I see a lane, a faint lane.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/3/2023 @ 7:43 pm

Obviously, Mr. Steinbeck is one of America’s best writers, I had no idea the guy was funny. I don’t LOL often but I did here.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/3/2023 @ 7:54 pm

Today, Zelenskyy removed his Defense Minister (and there’s a list of good reasons here), but this part was interesting.

Guess Ukraine would be the first country in the world with a Jewish president and a Muslim defense minister.

I don’t know if it’s actually true but it could be.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/3/2023 @ 8:17 pm

According to this, the states have delegated to their political parties (or candidates) the selection of electors, so I assume each party sets the personal qualifications for their electors.

Actually, California and New Mexico (and a number of other faithless states) have delegated to some “national vote count” the selection of their electors.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:39 pm

he’s not a paranoid nut like Perot, who won 19% of the popular vote but no electoral votes. I see a lane, a faint lane.

Perot was polling in first place in the late spring of 1992. He didn’t end up at 19% because of the campaign; he self-destructed. His 19% was impressive given that, but another candidate at that time with that placement could ahve won.

The only people who telly you that a centrist 3rd party candidate cannot win are those with a vested interest in one (or both) of the current two parties. The “don’t waste your vote” FUD play.

Franky, if I am left with a Biden-Trump election, it would be hard NOT to waste my vote. I despise Trump, but I also despise Biden (or his politburo) for orchestrating what will become a constitutional crisis.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:45 pm

The clock is ticking on Joe getting out of his own accord.

The clock is ticking on Trump, too. As these charges start to crush him, he’ll find his election chances diminishing and his need for a pardon increasing. Time to get out and let another Republican win.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:47 pm

So, what happens if the NH primary is held without Trump on the ballot?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:48 pm

essex Iowa bans pride (perverts) marchers from labor day parade as orlando floriduh neo-nazis and white supremacists rally to honor jacksonville shooter of 3 black people.

asset (2ba961) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:51 pm

@270 can you send me a dollar for every time you say trump chances diminishing. Or better yet AOC’s re-election fund.

asset (2ba961) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:54 pm

@201 President biden is legit the democrat party stole the election by the rules. The electoral college voted 302 biden 232 trump.

asset (2ba961) — 9/3/2023 @ 11:04 pm

Amigos, are you seriously suggesting that Maryanne’s Baby will behave ~~more nobly~~ less ignobly in this primary than he did in the 2020 general election?

nk (277b77) — 9/4/2023 @ 4:22 am

This article describes the arguments against a third-party candidate…and how it would in all likelihood help Trump. I recommend a read.
https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-dangerous-illusion-of-a-presidential-third-party-in-2024

I appreciate the arguments, but I think it minimizes the historical awfulness of our current choices. Ross Perot ran against Bush I and Clinton. Sure Bush I broke his “no new taxes” pledge, but he also was in charge as the Soviet Union toppled and Saddam was ejected from Kuwait (throw in getting Noriega as well). He was not an authoritarian flirt or a gaffe machine. Perot tumbled down from 36% to 19% support because he suspended his campaign for goofy reasons and picked a VP who was a legitimate hero but was not ready for primetime. Perot peaked against imperfect candidates but much better than what we got now.

Gary Johnson is also used as an argument against 3rd party candidates, but he cratered because of ineptness. The Aleppo gaffe, the unwillingness to drop unpopular libertarian positions, his inability to argue against Clinton, and his general goofiness shut down his opportunity. It wasn’t the electorate…it was the candidate and how he campaigned. The field was open for Johnson/Weld, they just couldn’t leave Maryjane behind.

Now I agree that the political landscape is hostile to an interloper. Despite more independents, there is inertia and infrastructure that advantages the R’s and D’s. There are deep red and deep blue states that will be difficult to dislodge. Will California or Mississippi get enthralled by a moderate? Too, any Aleppo or Stockdale moments will clear the room. A 3rd party campaign has to be perfect and avoid inevitable gotchas. Hogan has never run nationally and he doesn’t exactly have the charisma of a Perot or Teddy Roosevelt. His argument is competence and staying in the middle or the road…while not being an armadillo.

Would a Hogan/Manchin ticket steal more R’s or D’s? D’s like Hogan, maybe more than R’s. Hogan will likely not throw out conservative red meat on immigration or culture war issues, good for competing in Nevada, but not especially helpful for Missouri or Utah. But can such a team get enough electoral votes to throw the election to the House? Would the narrow R lead in state delegations inspire any defections? Would any state delegation go independent?

Clearly the path for an independent is emaciatingly thin. It probably does give an edge to Trump with a House that leans more rabid. One my hope for an appeal to what is best for the country, but if that sentiment animated the R party, it wouldn’t be nominating Trump to begin with….

AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:42 am

I stopped with this lie, AJ:

Our two-party system has evolved in such a way that makes it close to impossible for a third-party candidate to actually win the election outright. Instead, they would act as a spoiler

Perot got 19% AFTER he quit the campaign for a couple of months due to some weird conspiracy theory. When he quit he was leading the polls. A saner candidate at that point of time clearly could have won (he WAS winning). But every one of these “third parties cannot win” BS-fests ignores the reasons that Perot cratered, then goes on to some 2-party horse-race argument or the horror of an election in Congress.

Lastly, as you point out AJ, the polarization is an order of magnitude greater (more than just pro- and anti-Trump) than it was in 1992. Then we had two candidates who were leaning toward the center, but both were ignoring the $4 trillion debt which Perot used to his advantage.

Now, we have one candidate who is extreme, and one who thinks he owns the center because the other candidate is extreme (never mind his own environmental extremism and all-around Statism). The prospect of these two choices is wildly unpopular.

A sane candidate with governmental chops who can address the center is quite viable in 2024. Anyone who tells you it will help “the other guy” has an interest in the opposite.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 8:55 am

So, what happens if the NH primary is held without Trump on the ballot?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/3/2023 @ 10:48 pm

Since the NH Secretary of State has denied that he is trying to remove Trump from the Republican primary ballot, it is a moot question.

In addition, a Florida federal judge dismissed for lack of standing a lawsuit seeking to bar Trump under the 14th Amendment; so voter lawsuits are unlikely to succeed. Another candidate may have standing, that would certainly alienate them from other Republican voters.

And the Arizona SOS said he doesn’t have the power to bar Trump from their primary ballot.

If Trump was suddenly vaporize into thin air, I suspect DeSantis and Ramaswamy would benefit the most, as they are philosophically closer to Trump voters than anyone else. A Trump voter is not going to suddenly turn into a Christie or Haley supporter.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 8:59 am

The biggest impediment to a third-party bid is the unconstitutional roadblocks that the incumbent parties have erected to hamstring challengers. But the little, poorly funded and fringe Libertarian Party routinely gets on all state ballots. A well-funded centrist party with popular support can easily accomplish this. Perot did it starting 6 months later than NOW.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 8:59 am

Perot got 19% AFTER he quit the campaign for a couple of months due to some weird conspiracy theory. When he quit he was leading the polls. A saner candidate at that point of time clearly could have won (he WAS winning).

What states was Perot leading in when he quit?

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:02 am

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 8:59 am

I would say the Electoral College is probably the biggest impediment, and no court can overturn.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:04 am

Since the NH Secretary of State has denied that he is trying to remove Trump from the Republican primary ballot, it is a moot question.

But you just got through saying it wasn’t in his power. Now you argue it is. As I argued before, it is a matter for state courts (or the legislature) so this argument of yours (whichever way you try it) is a non sequitur.

In addition, a Florida federal judge dismissed for lack of standing a lawsuit

1) Federal. More non sequitur. This is a state election under state law. There is no federal law regarding presidential primaries, other than non-discrimination statutes.
2) There are people who have standing. Chris Christie can show harm from an unqualified candidate being on the ballot.

And the Arizona SOS said he doesn’t have the power to bar Trump from their primary ballot.

There you are again, back to the other side of the same non sequitur

If Trump was suddenly vaporize into thin air, I suspect DeSantis and Ramaswamy would benefit the most, as they are philosophically closer to Trump voters than anyone else. A Trump voter is not going to suddenly turn into a Christie or Haley supporter.

That may be true. Or the Trump voters might just stay home. Ramaswamy’s habit of swindling small investors might cause him some problems, too — he is everything that the Trumpists claim to hate.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:07 am

What states was Perot leading in when he quit?

All of them. Prove me wrong.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:08 am

Later on, in 2019, Giuliani told DYNAMO he had received $300,000 (USD) and even had co “apply pressure to get paid by Fuks. When asked by DYNAMO, Giuliani denied this payment was for lobbying, instead insisting it was for “security consulting.

Giuliani made a point of saying that his only client was Donald Trump – and he wasn’t getting paid by him.

I don’t think he got money for lobbying, although he did lobby – the first thing was to fire the U.S Ambassador to Ukraine. Neither did he do any security – the money was given to him for the purpose of for corrupting his judgment. Any excuse would do.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:10 am

RIP Steve Harwell, founding lead singer of Smash Mouth (56).

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:14 am

#278

BuDuh begs to differ.

Appalled (909f90) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:16 am

AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:42 am

Clearly the path for an independent is emaciatingly thin.

They need to run different candidates fir president in different states. Their candidate should poll second in most states (a R in red states and a D in blue states) and create competition for who will come in third in electoral votes and be eligible to be chosen by the House.

There should be one candidate for vice president – I’m not sure who.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:16 am

Lisa Murkowski might be a good candidate for vice president.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:17 am

Since the NH Secretary of State has denied that he is trying to remove Trump from the Republican primary ballot, it is a moot question.

But you just got through saying it wasn’t in his power. ……..

I never said anything of the sort.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:18 am

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:35 pm

Seriously, if someone can show how a third party wins 270 electoral votes I’m in.

A third party doesn’t need to gain 270 Electorsl votes. It merely needs to prevent anyone else from gaining 270 Electoral votes – better yet come in at least second in electoral votes.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:20 am

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:07 am

Since Florida case involves a federal law (enforcing the 14th Amendment, Sec. 3) I believe a federal court would have jurisdiction. State courts would not enforce the federal constitution.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:24 am

steveg (9c3ce6) — 9/3/2023 @ 1:18 pm

Poll after poll show both Republicans and Democrats think the current system is ripe for fraud.

Because of all the propaganda about ut.

It could be done, but it can’t be done undetectably if anyone is watching.

Weird how there was none.

No weider than not being cheated by a cashier when paying in cash and getting back change,

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:29 am

A third party doesn’t need to gain 270 Electorsl votes. It merely needs to prevent anyone else from gaining 270 Electoral votes – better yet come in at least second in electoral votes.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:20 am

And then throw the election into a Trump friendly House? No thanks.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:29 am

A major party voter has never had to vote for someone convicted of a felony and facing additional felony indictments. That is simply a new dynamic that no poll question will be able to accurately probe until that person is in that voter booth looking at that name. I also think inevitably some people will say they can’t do it…which will socialize the position and make it easier for others to follow suit. We obviously haven’t gotten there yet, but it could happen.

Now will Utah, Mississippi, Alabama, Texas choose an east coast moderate over an embattled Trump? I don’t see it unless Trump goes over the edge and breaks kayfabe. So, likely a 3rd party candidate does not get to 270…absent a miracle, the math is just too tough. Can he win the plurality of popular votes and electoral votes? Potentially, but quite difficult given the advantage of party infrastructure (indep just don’t have the GOTV muscle). That would be a strong position going into the House. If Trump is in 3rd, then elevating Trump would be tough. We would have a Constitutional crisis as partisans will want to partisan.

What if Biden dies before the election? Will Democrats risk all on Harris? Again, we will see a Party crisis. There’s very little that looks good if Trump gets nominated. We need the stink of legal defeat as early as practical. People need to see what hole they’re crawling down.

AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:39 am

257. AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/3/2023 @ 6:17 pm

I wonder if there would be any red states that he could win outright. Maybe on the east coast?

Texas and Oklahoma, for instance, if Biden persistently polls third in both states and that gets widely advertised before early voting starts and Democrats decide not to waste their votes.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:39 am

AJ_Liberty (f69920) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:39 am

Now will Utah, Mississippi, Alabama, Texas choose an east coast moderate over an embattled Trump? I don’t see it unless Trump goes over the edge and breaks kayfabe.

what’s needed is for Democrats to abandon their candidate in those states and for Trump to lose some significant support from Republicans.

In 2006, in Connecticut, Republicans abandoned their candidate.

But Hogan is far from the best candidate.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:45 am

And then throw the election into a Trump friendly House? No thanks.

What makes you think that the current (or 2025) House would be a rubber-stamp for Trump. Suppose the centrist made a good showing, winning maybe 100 EVs. Sure, there might be 170 or so dedicated Trumpists in the House, but not every Republican favors him. If the state delegation’s vote was by secret ballot, there might be some surprising results.

Assuming he doesn’t win on the first ballot, things could be rather surprising. If there are conservatives here who would vote for Biden or the centrist, why not in Congress?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:53 am

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/2/2023 @ 9:32 am

Giuliani…colluded with Russian assets or spies to help Trump and hurt Trump’s chief political rival.

I don’t think Giuliani realized he was doing that. He thought his sources were honest. I’d put him into the category of “useful idiot.”

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:59 am

Now will Utah, Mississippi, Alabama, Texas choose an east coast moderate over an embattled Trump? I don’t see it unless Trump goes over the edge

Look at it based on the actual 2020 numbers.

States and margins:

<5%: GA, AZ, WI PA, NC, NV, MI, FL (123 EVs)
<10%: TX, MI, NH, OH, IA, ME (80 EVs)

Now you are getting towards the possibility that a centrist could get a plurality of EVs. If they catch fire in blue states, or if Biden OR Trump has a major problem late in the campaign (such as Hillary's on-camera collapse, or Trump getting cozy with the Klan), they could pick up states like IL or NJ, OR, WA or NY.

This isn't impossible.

Also, suppose the candidate was a bit more toward the old GOP. They might not win, but they sure would not help Trump.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:10 am

A Ryan/Manchin ticket might have legs. Of course, Paul Ryan might not think it was his best chance (and/or would destroy what little standing he has left). But then he might also see it as the beginning of the needed successor party.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:15 am

I don’t think Giuliani realized he was doing that. He thought his sources were honest

I don’t think he much cared, given the (minimal) attention to detail he showed elsewhere.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:17 am

Perot got 19% AFTER he quit the campaign for a couple of months due to some weird conspiracy theory. When he quit he was leading the polls……….

While humiliating an American hero.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:32 am

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:53 am

If the state delegation’s vote was by secret ballot, there might be some surprising results.

It’s not by secret ballot (unless they channnnge the rules but no roll call votes are) and only a plurality is needed for a state to cast its votes. But a state can be divided evenly or tie, and if so, will cast no vote, but 26 states are always needed. Pluralities can usually (or always?) be made into ties by careful voting.

The Senate votes by name and only between the top two. The Senate was not a factor in 1825 as John C. Calhoun was automatically elected (and maybe Calhoun’s strategy was to hope that the House made no selection, I don’t know.)

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:46 am

What makes you think that the current (or 2025) House would be a rubber-stamp for Trump. Suppose the centrist made a good showing, winning maybe 100 EVs. Sure, there might be 170 or so dedicated Trumpists in the House, but not every Republican favors him. If the state delegation’s vote was by secret ballot, there might be some surprising results.

If if if………

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:52 am

The whole world is “if”, Rip. Get used to it.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:55 am

It’s not by secret ballot (unless they change the rules but no roll call votes are)

It’s not a roll-call vote. It’s a state-by-state caucus vote that hasn’t happened since 1824.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:57 am

A Ryan/Manchin ticket…….

BORING. If want to light up the voters, nominate Taylor Swift or Kim Kardashian. They can self-fund their campaigns.

Seriously if past/former politicians are nominated, all their past political positions will come back to haunt them. And Ryan/Manchin have plenty.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:59 am

In a contingent House Election I think each state caucuses (how each representative votes is not recorded but not secret either) and reports its vote: Candidate A, Candidate B, Candidate C or divided (no vote on that ballot)

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:13 am

BTW, although the GOP is trying to lose it, it is almost certain that the GOP regains the Senate in 2024.

They are defending 11 seats, the weakest of which are Crux in TX and Scott in FL. The rest are gimmes (UT, WY, NE(2), ND, IN, MO, TN, MS). The Democrats are defending 20 seats (plus 3 held by “independents”). They stand to lose WV and MT, and could easily lose AZ, MI, OH and NV.

The Dems may save MT by the GOP nominating the whackjob that Tester beat last time, but still, the over under is R+3.

This would make the VP choice in the Senate more predictable (unless the Democrat was not among the top 2), and would mean that the VP would have little power there.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:14 am

And Ryan/Manchin have plenty.

Piddling compared to Trump and Biden.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:15 am

nominate Taylor Swift or Kim Kardashian.

And you say I’m wishcasting. This is drivel-casting.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:16 am

In a contingent House Election I think each state caucuses (how each representative votes is not recorded but not secret either) and reports its vote: Candidate A, Candidate B, Candidate C or divided (no vote on that ballot)

Sure the STATE vote is reported, but the individual member’s votes? There is good cause to have that by secret ballot.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:18 am

Joe Biden: The buck never stops here. But if I can at least somewhat plausibly say a good result was achieved, I did it.

Donald Trump: It doesn’t need to be the least bit plausible; for me to say i did it. I saved millions from a nuclear holocaust because of the way I dealt with North Korea.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:18 am

Would a Hogan/Manchin ticket steal more R’s or D’s? D’s like Hogan, maybe more than R’s. Hogan will likely not throw out conservative red meat on immigration or culture war issues, good for competing in Nevada, but not especially helpful for Missouri or Utah. But can such a team get enough electoral votes to throw the election to the House? Would the narrow R lead in state delegations inspire any defections? Would any state delegation go independent?

Larry Hogan is a nice guy, but his national name recognition is zero. And if you can’t answer these questions (for any third party candidate) now, is it worth the risk of re-electing Donald Trump?

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:18 am

And you say I’m wishcasting. This is drivel-casting.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:16 am

It’s called sarcasm.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:20 am

But you are wishcasting.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:20 am

In a contingent election, six states will have their votes cast by a single person: Delaware, Vermont, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota and Alaska. They should split 3-2 Rep with Alaska being uncertain.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:24 am

Predicting who will vote for Trump is a fool’s errand.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:32 am

I don’t think Giuliani realized he was doing that. He thought his sources were honest. I’d put him into the category of “useful idiot.”

I wouldn’t mindread about what Rudy thought of his sources. You don’t know if he was wittingly or unwittingly conveying Putin-friendly lies.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:33 am

Would any state delegation go independent?

After the first ballot, maybe. On the first ballot one or more states could abstain. That four-letter word (“compromise”) could come into play if neither of the majors is in control. Also, it would depend on where the independent finishes. Coming in second would give them LOTS more room to negotiate, as they could rally public opinion to their cause.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:38 am

I suppose each state could make up its own rules how it counts its votes, but there will be tremendous political pressure not to cast any vote inn secret, and any member of Congress voting to do so can be presumed to intend to cast his vote for someone other than his own party’s nominee or their announced choice.

I think in campaigning for election to Congress many will say how they would vote in a House election – maybe not necessarily their party’s nominee but the winner of their district or state or whatever.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:38 am

You don’t know if he was wittingly or unwittingly conveying Putin-friendly lies.

Or if he cared.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:38 am

Piddling compared to Trump and Biden.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:15 am

Like cutting Medicare and privatizing Social Security? Paul Ryan has advocated this for his entire career.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:39 am

It could also depend upon whether Mitch McConnell(presumam=bly if he’s still there0 schedules a vote for Vice President, or waits.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:40 am

any member of Congress voting to do so can be presumed to intend to cast his vote for someone other than his own party’s nominee or their announced choice.

Again, it matters where the independent finishes. If a Congressman’s party came in third, they may well want a secret ballot. Also, what happened in the Congressman’s state or district? Voting another way could be a problem for them.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:41 am

Predicting who will vote for Trump is a fool’s errand.

LOL! Trump supporters are pretty vocal.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:41 am

322. I think Giuliani felt that anything that came in should be interpreted to the advantage of Donald Trump. Of course, Putin’s agents tried to tell Giuliani something he would be interested in hearing that at the same time would help Putin.

They came late with the tale of Joe Biden firing the prosecutor, and must have been the ones to supply him with the recording of Biden boasting about it.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:43 am

LOL! Trump supporters are pretty vocal.

In Congress. Was that not clear? And in Congress, they are not all MTG. At most 138 GOP House members supported Trump’s claims on Jan 6th. That’s a lot, of course, but about 80 did not. They could be in play.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:44 am

If Giuliani was intentionally telling lies, he would have told more of them.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:46 am

Ruh-roh!

Kim Jong-un and Putin Plan to Meet in Russia to Discuss Weapons

Kim Jong-un, the leader of North Korea, plans to travel to Russia this month to meet with President Vladimir V. Putin to discuss the possibility of supplying Russia with more weaponry for its war in Ukraine and other military cooperation, according to American and allied officials.

Mr. Putin wants Mr. Kim to agree to send Russia artillery shells and antitank missiles, and Mr. Kim would like Russia to provide North Korea with advanced technology for satellites and nuclear-powered submarines, the officials said. Mr. Kim is also seeking food aid for his impoverished nation.

Sharing strategic arms technology with North Korea should be something the US forcefully opposes. We should ahve dealt with the Kims in 1998. Or 2004. Or 1952. We still can.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:49 am

Sorry, all but the last sentence above should be quoted

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:50 am

If Giuliani was intentionally telling lies, he would have told more of them.

Not sure he could have.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:51 am

Appeals court rules ex-FBI agent Peter Strzok can depose ex-President Trump

……………
ok claims he was wrongfully terminated; Page, who resigned, is suing the agencies for allegedly unlawfully violating her privacy by releasing hundreds of text messages between the two in late 2017. Both plaintiffs want the 45th president to sit for a deposition.

In a February ruling, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson ruled that Strzok could depose Trump and FBI Director Christopher
Wray.

In May, U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland’s DOJ filed a motion arguing against a court-ordered, two-hour-long deposition for Trump – at least until Wray is deposed first because “the Director’s deposition might obviate the need to depose the former President.” Additionally, the DOJ took the argument one step further – in favor of a broad interpretations of executive power.
……………
“For decades, the D.C. Circuit and virtually every other court of appeals have recognized that subjecting high-level government officials — to say nothing of current or former Presidents — ‘to oral deposition is not normally countenanced,’” the motion said, going on to argue that courts of appeal typically side with the government in such cases.
………….
“(The Department of Justice contends) that the district court committed a ‘clear abuse of discretion,’ by authorizing respondents to depose former President Trump,” the order read. “Before authorizing the deposition, however, the district court held multiple hearings on the relevant issues, considered several rounds of additional briefing, and required respondents to exhaust other means of obtaining the information they sought. The district court limited the deposition to two hours, and to a narrow set of topics it identified.”

“Having employed particular ‘deference and restraint’ considering the separation-of-powers concerns at issue, the district court ultimately concluded that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ warranted the deposition of the former President,” the order went on. “Under these circumstances, (the Department has) not shown that the district court’s conclusion was a clear abuse of discretion.”
…………..
Trump, for his part, is not a named defendant………. While in office, however, he frequently criticized both Strzok and (Lisa) Page. The lawsuits claim he was inappropriately involved in the ensuing scandal.
#########

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:55 am

If Giuliani had tried to double check the story, he would have discovered that the tale Biden told to his CFR audience on January 23, 2018 couldn’t possibly be true.

But the same can be said for the Washington Post and, for that matter, nearly the entire media.(except for a recent column in the Wall Street Journal)

Moving the cancelled press conference to announce the additional loan guarantee, from March 2016 to December 2015 (to jibe with Biden’s last visit to Kiev before Viktor Shokin was fired) doesn’t solve the problem.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:57 am

Corrected link. Sorry for the formatting.

Rip Murdock (28ff55) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:57 am

Giuliani, unlike Trump, never said that Biden said he fired the prosecutor to stop an investigation </I.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:00 pm

He said Biden kept that part from his audience.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:01 pm

Appeals court rules ex-FBI agent Peter Strzok can depose ex-President Trump

The Supremes will take the case.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:05 pm

If Giuliani had tried to double check the story

He didn’t care. It was useful.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:06 pm

Here’s a decent explanation of Paul Ryan’s proposed entitlement reforms and the challenges they faced
https://www.city-journal.org/article/where-did-paul-ryans-roadmap-go-wrong

It’s understandable why he chose to just retire. Few want to have a serious discussion. Most politicians just want to pander or work social media donations. At some point ahead, we will wish that we had smart individuals like Paul Ryan or Mitch Daniel at the helm instead of reality TV entertainers or people quite over the hill.

I don’t see many Democrats voting for Ryan over Biden. I don’t see many Trumpists voting for Ryan over Trump. Most tribalists will not want to cause their team to lose by taking a flyer on Ryan. Also, I’ve not heard anything about Ryan being courted by No Labels or leaving any doors open. He’s young enough to have another chapter. Larry Hogan is 67 while Joe Manchin is 76. This is pretty much it.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:09 pm

If Giuliani was intentionally telling lies, he would have told more of them.

I really don’t understand why your response is to mindread the person you’re defending, Sammy.
The fact is that Giuliani told scads of lies and falsehoods and such about Ukraine, Russia and the 2020 election, and he did it so prolifically that he faces disbarment, criminal convictions, civil lawsuit monetary settlements and possibly prison.
I almost don’t want to beat on a guy who’s already knocked down, but he was Trump’s criminal co-conspirator in undermining our democracy and I’m not interested in giving those folks quarter.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:13 pm

Larry Hogan is 67 while Joe Manchin is 76. This is pretty much it.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:09 pm

Pretty lame choices.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:15 pm

“Pretty lame choices.”

Compared to whom….Trump and Biden!? Literally the objective is to find someone who understands the law and doesn’t have to take regular naps. It’s competence and finding individuals that have some cross-aisle appeal. we are not destined to elect a criminal or a geriatric.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:25 pm

Pretty lame choices.

Compared to Biden-Harris and Trump-[name compliant Type B chump here]? That’s not a lame choice at all.
A Hogan-Manchin ticket is miles above what our two dysfunctional major parties are offering so far. They would be a serious 3rd option IMO, if they can get on all 50 state ballots.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:29 pm

Difficult Path For 2024 Third-Party Bid

In a contest between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump, more voters say they won’t vote for either candidate than say they will. This does not mean, however, that the American electorate is on board with a third-party presidential ticket in 2024..……….
…………….
At this point, 3 in 10 Americans say they would entertain voting for a third-party “fusion” ticket comprised of a Democrat and a Republican.

Just 5% say they would definitely vote for this option if Biden and Trump are the major party nominees and another 25% say they would probably vote third party.

At the other end of the spectrum, 31% say they definitely would not support a fusion ticket and 34% probably would not.

Support for a third-party ticket drops even lower when names of possible candidates are introduced into the equation. ………… Monmouth tested (Senator) Manchin and (Republican former Utah Governor Jon) Huntsman as an alternative ticket in a Biden-Trump race and found that only 2% of voters would definitely vote for this specific third-party option and just 14% would probably vote for them.

Moreover, 44% definitely would not vote for a Manchin-Huntsman ticket and 31% probably would not. It does not appear to matter whether Manchin or Huntsman tops the ticket. ……….

“………….(T)he more concrete you make an alternative to the major party candidates, the less attractive it becomes. A third-party nominee needs to capture voters’ imagination to be successful. It is not clear that such a charismatic figure exists right now,” said (Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute.)

………… When a generic bipartisan ticket is offered as an alternative, Biden’s support drops from 47% to 37% and Trump’s support falls from 40% to 28%.

With a Manchin/Huntsman ticket as the alternative, Biden’s support drops from 47% to 40% and Trump’s support falls from 40% to 34%. …………

…………. In the case where voting for a third party could lead to the election of Biden, 39% say they would vote for Biden, 37% would vote for Trump, and 20% would vote for the third-party ticket.

In the case where voting for a third party could lead to the election of Trump, 43% would vote for Biden, 33% would vote for Trump, and 20% would vote for the third-party ticket.
………….
“What voters say they want in an ideal world and how they actually act in a distrustful hyper-partisan environment are two very different things. When partisanship, particularly a negative view of the opposite party, drives voters’ decision-making, any third-party effort starts with a low ceiling for support,” said Murray.
………………

Paragraph breaks added. Full results and cross tabs.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:36 pm

Here’s a decent explanation of Paul Ryan’s proposed entitlement reforms and the challenges they faced

Here’s what he’s up to now: https://www.americanrenewalbook.com/

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:39 pm

I don’t see many Democrats voting for Ryan over Biden. I don’t see many Trumpists voting for Ryan over Trump

No, but there’s the Independents, who are larger than either party (and much larger than the Trumpistas). It might not defeat Biden, but it would certainly doom Trump. All that is needed is to go into the contingent election ahead of Donald Trump.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:42 pm

In an election that was Trump – Biden – Ryan, how many here would vote for Ryan? Who would still vote for Biden or Trump?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:43 pm

Hogan and Manchin are lame choices because they’re current politicians that have been in politics for decades. They’re part of the problem. They also have the charisma of a rock.

What is needed are a duo of young, non-DC politicians who can articulate a completely alternative vision of what can be achieved in Washington.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:45 pm

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:43 pm

None of the above, just as I would if it was just Biden or Trump.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:47 pm

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:39 pm

No mention of Ryan’s Fox board membership during the corporation’s scheme accusing Dominion of election fraud to throw the election to Trump.

It will undoubtedly come up during the campaign.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:56 pm

A Hogan-Manchin ticket is miles above what our two dysfunctional major parties are offering so far.

Hogan and Manchin are members of the same “dysfunctional” parties, and have been for decades.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 1:00 pm

What is needed are a duo of young, non-DC politicians who can articulate a completely alternative vision of what can be achieved in Washington.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:45 pm

Nikki Haley’s best chance to get to the White House would have been as one of those “young, non-DC politicians” but it’s too late now.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 1:05 pm

I’m just getting around to reading this Kevin Williamson article from last week. He sees Pence in ways I hadn’t considered before.

https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/wanderland/the-whited-sepulcher/

There are a couple of possible ways to read Pence’s refusal of Trump’s demand: We might be generous and assume that Pence is a patriot and a man of honor—one who takes seriously an oath ending in the words “so help me God”—and acted as he did out of the best of motives. But there is not much evidence that Pence is a patriot or a man of honor, one who takes seriously an oath ending in the words “so help me God.” I know that sounds harsh, and I’ll come back to it directly.

The second possible explanation of Pence’s actions is that he knew he had ridden the Trump train as far as it was going to take him, that Trump’s daft coup d’etat was never going to succeed, that the people in charge of it were feckless has-beens like Rudy Giuliani and outright lunatics like Sidney Powell, that going along with those fools would be political suicide for a man who still hoped to be president himself one day, and that the most likely fruit to be born from that packet of poison seeds was a crop of felony indictments. Pence, who has been running for office since the 1980s (he failed to get himself elected to the House in 1988 and then again in 1990), is, lest we forget, a graduate of an accredited law school and a former lawyer: He knew enough not to go down with that sinking ship.

To watch him strut and preen today about his actions on that day, you’d think that he did more than simply refuse to violate the most basic responsibilities of public life and clear the very lowest bar possible by not going out of his way to nuke his own political career and join an abortive coup attempt organized by a half-organized gaggle of clueless cretins who could not find their own asses with both hands and a map. Mike Pence is like the guy who wants brownie points for not cheating on his girl.

********

Instead of treating January 6 like what it was—an indictment of his own poor political judgment and an outrage for which he bears considerable personal culpability owing to his actions in the four years leading up to the natural climax of Trump-style politics—he treats it like a moral get-out-of-jail-free card. “Once I have helped lead the nation to the brink of disaster, you can count on me to do the right thing, one time, at the last minute, while trying to stay in good graces with the would-be tyrant I helped put in the White House” (if I may summarize loosely) is not quite as inspiring as Pence seems to think it is. The fact that this guy canonized himself in a subsequent book titled So Help Me God is the toxic icing on the raw-sewage cake.

There are better and worse explanations for how Pence conducted himself during the Trump years—but there are not any good explanations.

I can’t say I disagree with Kevin’s take.

norcal (d7244e) — 9/4/2023 @ 1:38 pm

Rip, there are no mythical “young non-DC politicians” that have the name recognition, resume, or rhetorical abilities to compete. You might as well say, I’m for a unicorn. We already see what youth and inexperience brings us with Ramaswamy….a lot of pompous blather. I would think we would be done with entertainers, neophytes, and rich narcissists who think everything is easy….because they really don’t understand the job.

Hogan and Manchin are certainly vanilla. Your suggestion that they are part of the problem begs for you to explain what exactly you think is “the problem” and how exactly neophytes bring the wisdom and experience to fix it.

I would say that at least part of the problem is hyperpartisanship…and the tribalism and adversarial governing approach that it foists upon us. Manchin is probably one of the few true moderates in the Senate. Hogan was a popular two-term governor of a blue state. Hogan’s bio isn’t that different from Christie who you supported until I guess now you don’t.

It kind of seems like you’re swerving all over the political map. Watch out, you might get popped for drunk commenting!

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 1:54 pm

It will undoubtedly come up during the campaign.

That would be high among “things most people don’t care about.”

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:19 pm

I agree, norcal. In fact, I would have preferred Pence to gather the Cabinet in December 2020, as Trump’s mania became apparent, and have a vote on Donald Trump’s continuance in office. THAT would have been righteous.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:23 pm

We already see what youth and inexperience brings us with Ramaswamy….a lot of pompous blather.

To be fair to youth and inexperience, I see Ramaswamy as nothing of the sort. Alas. He is a serial swindler, operating several huge pump & dumps that left him rich and all his investors wiped out. I see no reason to suppose he doesn’t know what he’s doing. It’s all those trillions that attracts him.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:28 pm

I don’t want America to be his latest bust-out.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:28 pm

Rip, there are no mythical “young non-DC politicians” that have the name recognition, resume, or rhetorical abilities to compete. You might as well say, I’m for a unicorn.

Then Hogan and Manchin won’t offering a real choice, just the same old same old.

Ramaswamy’s problem is lack of political experience and outrageous policies.

Hogan certainly doesn’t have national name recognition, outside of political junkies. And I’m Machin’s is the same. If you asked 100 voters who they re and what they stand for, you probably would get less than 15% able to do so.

Are they the only choices? Pretty sad if they are.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:30 pm

Or more specifically, why are they the only choices?

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:31 pm

Hogan’s bio isn’t that different from Christie who you supported until I guess now you don’t.

I don’t know why you think I no longer support Christie. The difference between Hogan and Christie is that Hogan didn’t put his name where his mouth is and decided not to run.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:37 pm

@277 so what! Clintonista democrats pulled this in 2016. You have to vote for what ever crap we throw on the wall that sticks. I was told by madcow that voting for third party means you don’t care who wins. I cared that clinton didn’t win and would do the same in 2020 if you pull this stunt again! Things worked out pretty good for the left win clinton didn’t win ask AOC.

asset (6cc078) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:41 pm

It kind of seems like you’re swerving all over the political map. Watch out, you might get popped for drunk commenting!

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 1:54 pm

Showing that the various ideas to bar Trump from running are legal fantasies and that the fact that he continues to dominate the polls is simply recognizing reality.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:43 pm

Maybe my standards are way lower yours, Rip.
That Hogan is not Biden, not Trump, leans moderate conservative and has reasonably reputable character is more than good enough, and there dozens of hundreds of other possibilities, but Hogan-Manchin are the first possibilities available*. I’m not that picky, but I do my “nevers”, and two of them are Trump and Ramaswamy on the right.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:47 pm

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:47 pm

Again, why Hogan and Manchin the only choices?

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:50 pm

Rip, there are no mythical “young non-DC politicians” that have the name recognition, resume, or rhetorical abilities to compete.

So Nikki’s “new generation” doesn’t really exist?

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:57 pm

If you’re looking for rhetorical abilities, Hogan and Manchin aren’t the first names that spring to mind.

I will say that Hogan is a spring chicken at 67 compared to Biden, Trump and Manchin.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:03 pm

Gah, I left out about five words, but you get my drift.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:04 pm

Again, why Hogan and Manchin the only choices?

I didn’t say they were, just that they’d be the next available. The Libertarian Party has gotten nuttier since Gary Johnson and I doubt they’ll have a non-nutty nominee, and No Labels could be the only mainstream party that could qualify in all 50 states. If No Labels doesn’t coalesce, then it’s still a protest vote for me. I wonder what Bobby Jindal is up to these days. Out of Haley, Ramaswamy and Jindal, the latter would make the best president of Indian heritage, IMO.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:12 pm

it’s still a protest vote for me

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:12 pm

That was my choice in 2020, after voting for Trump (shudder) in 2016.

In 2024, if Trump is the Republican nominee, I will be voting for a Democrat for President for the first time in my life.

Trump needs to be defeated, and resoundingly so.

norcal (d7244e) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:22 pm

Ack!

it’s still a protest vote for me

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:12 pm

That was my choice in 2020, after voting for Trump (shudder) in 2016.

In 2024, if Trump is the Republican nominee, I will be voting for a Democrat for President for the first time in my life.

Trump needs to be defeated, and resoundingly so.

norcal (d7244e) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:23 pm

“Again, why [are] Hogan and Manchin the only choices?”

Because no one else appears to have the chops to be an effective 3rd party candidate. No Labels may not have a lot of organization and probably little to no ground support, but it’s a coalition pledged to offer the country better than Trump or Biden. They are also committed to NOT enter if say Trump is not able to get the nomination. So, there is no appearance of a vanity run. I’m sure they are polling and strategizing.

You seem to suggest that they or Hogan specifically is no better than Trump or Biden. Well, for starters he’s not facing 4 indictments. He also doesn’t look lost wondering around stage and make weird utterances like “God save the queen” or shake imaginary people’s hands. All of that being a good start.

Hogan may not be a household name but like Perot or even Johnson you start where you start. You cultivate interest with your message, you convey your experience, and you demonstrate your intelligence. The same that Haley is doing and which is moving her up, while Scott and Pence move down. An election should be a battle of ideas and leadership styles. Most people grimace at either Trump the authoritarian and Biden the geriatric. There’s room for a good third option as a backup. My preference is for Trump to fall, but a plan B is always good.

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 4:02 pm

According to yahoo news chris christie is gaining support. Unfortunetly its from democrats!

asset (136453) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:05 pm

So, more Americans think that Joe Biden is too old to run for President (73%) than there are REPUBLICANS who support Trump. That includes 2/3rds of Democrats.

“Voters are looking for change, and neither of the leading candidates is the change that they’re looking for,” said Democratic pollster Michael Bocian, who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Tony Fabrizio.

Although the candidates are only three years apart, 73% of voters said they feel Biden is too old to seek a second term, compared with 47% of voters who said the same of the 77-year-old Trump. Two-thirds of Democrats said Biden was too old to run again.

By an 11-point margin, more voters see Trump rather than Biden as having a record of accomplishments as president—some 40% said Biden has such a record, while 51% said so of Trump. By an eight-point margin, more voters said Trump has a vision for the future. And by 10 points, more described Trump as mentally up to the presidency. Some 46% said that is true of Trump, compared with 36% who said so of Biden.

Biden is viewed more favorably than Trump on some personal characteristics. Some 48% of voters said Biden is likable, compared with 31% for Trump. Some 45% viewed Biden as honest, while 38% said so of Trump.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/bidens-age-economic-worries-endanger-re-election-in-2024-wsj-poll-finds-67a7bba8

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:10 pm

What states was Perot leading in when he quit?

All of them. Prove me wrong.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:08 am

By the time Perot quit, the race was effectively a dead heat (Bush was ahead, but within the margin of error). I don’t have state by state data, but if they were tied nationally, it’s the safest of bets Perot wasn’t leading in every one.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:12 pm

Joe lieberman wants no labels to run harold ford/tulsi gabbard ticket. It would scare the crap out of biden and the democrat establishment.

asset (136453) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:12 pm

Maybe my standards are way lower yours, Rip.

I think yours are higher. Rip only believes in candidates who will wreck the country. Rabid pessimism (which he no doubt calls “realism” (much like everyone did circa 1978)).

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:13 pm

In 2024, if Trump is the Republican nominee, I will be voting for a Democrat for President for the first time in my life.

Trump needs to be defeated, and resoundingly so.

norcal (d7244e) — 9/4/2023 @ 3:23 pm

Adam Kinzinger goes even farther, and I agree.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:14 pm

As for No Labels, like I’ve said before, in a vacuum I’d prefer Hogan over Trump or Biden. But we’re not in a vacuum. In the actual world my preference for Hogan is dwarfed by my preference for anyone but Trump. So when you factor in my belief that Hogan has an infinitesimal chance of winning, and my expectation that he’d siphon more votes from Biden than from Trump, he won’t get my vote. The risk and cost of throwing the election to Trump is just too high.

Of course, for those who believe Trump is no worse than Biden, it’s a different story. I think those people are nuts, and they may live to regret voting third party, but I don’t begrudge their choice.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:16 pm

By the time Perot quit, the race was effectively a dead heat (Bush was ahead, but within the margin of error). I don’t have state by state data, but if they were tied nationally, it’s the safest of bets Perot wasn’t leading in every one.

I know that, but I refused to play Rip’s game of proving something which, like you, I have no data on. So, I threw it back at him. He was leading nationally though, so he was (Mean Value Theorem) probably leading in some.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:16 pm

Rip, if you don’t like anyone anybody else mentions, who would you prefer to see as a third choice in a Biden/Trump election?

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:18 pm

If the election is Biden vs Trump, I will be voting fore the most likely alternative candidate, even if they have 0.01% chance of winning.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:19 pm

Showing that the various ideas to bar Trump from running are legal fantasies and that the fact that he continues to dominate the polls is simply recognizing reality.

Accepting that the wind comes from Vichy is pretty weak.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:21 pm

Kinzinger needs to reflect on two things:

1) The wackiest GOP candidate is not reflective of the GOP, and more that Hank Johnson’s Guam comment reflects Democrat thinking.

2) Who are MTG’s constituents? They keep sending these whackadoodles to Congress. She is not the worst representative to come out of that corner of Georgia.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:25 pm

*any

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:25 pm

norcal, Williamson’s latest is pretty good, too. On DeSantis…

If the Republicans on the Milwaukee debate stage seemed incoherent to you, it is because the Republicans on the Milwaukee debate stage were incoherent. Incoherence is one of the many unhappy side effects a party experiences when it abandons its values.

Take national security. For more than a half a century, the Republicans were the party associated with a more robust—and more serious—program for national security. Now, they are and they aren’t, and they mostly aren’t. Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor and miraculously disappearing Trump challenger, has complained that the Biden administration is too eager to help Ukraine and our European allies repel the Russian invasion that launched the most significant war in Europe since World War II. We have critical defense interests, DeSantis told Tucker Carlson in March, and “becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them.” He protests that the U.S. government is offering Kyiv a “blank check.”

DeSantis has reconnected with an ancient stream of Republican isolationism that flares up from time to time, as in Bob Dole’s infamous denunciation of “Democrat wars” in his 1976 vice presidential debate with Walter Mondale. The weird thing is, DeSantis also vowed to invade Mexico on his first day—literally: “I will do it on Day 1,” he pledged at the debate in response to a question about the drug cartels operating in the country. A few bucks to push back Moscow is a bridge too far, but an illegal and unprovoked invasion of our peaceable neighbor to the south is, somehow, obviously the right thing to do.

DeSantis’ planned military operation in Mexico would consist of sending special forces to target drug cartels—inevitably over the protests of the Mexican government. That is a drug policy of a sort—but it is also an act of war, literalizing the previously metaphorical war on drugs. DeSantis also has vowed to impose a policy of summary execution on drug smugglers—something that a president has no constitutional power to do. “If you have somebody coming in with fentanyl in the backpack,” he said last month, “that’s the last thing they’re going to be able to do, because we’re going to leave them stone-cold dead at the border.” That would be a crime, and the order to commit that crime would be an illegal order—something DeSantis very well knows, having served as a lawyer in the Judge Advocate General’s Corps in the Navy Reserve.

(DeSantis did not serve with the SEALs, though you might have gotten the impression during the debate that he had from his repeated references to working alongside SEALs.)

When you have no values or ideas to guide your policies, it’s easy to slip into cheap substitutes. In DeSantis’ case, the substitute is brutality, or at least the threat of brutality. So, it’s kid gloves for Vladimir Putin, because Tucker Carlson and six guys on Twitter say so, and outright murder at the border. Now that’s incoherence.

This is one reason I’m hesitant about DeSantis, but he’s not in my “never” column. Yet.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:32 pm

They are also committed to NOT enter if say Trump is not able to get the nomination.

They’ve also promised not run if it looks like Trump will benefit:

No Labels is facing increasing scrutiny over the possibility it could play a spoiler role in the 2024 presidential election, and its founder and CEO said in an exclusive interview that she vows to end the group’s third-party 2024 effort if it risks putting Donald Trump back in the White House.

But Nancy Jacobson repeatedly declined to offer any metric on how the group would determine whether to stand down.

“As a Democrat? Categorically, that will not happen,” Jacobson said in response to a question about concerns that a third-party ticket, running on the ballot line No Labels is seeking in every state, could siphon off votes from President Joe Biden and benefit Trump. “This effort will nev — we’ll pull it down.”

Jacobson immediately added: “We will not spoil for either side. The only reason to do this is to win.”
…………
Jacobson said the group will assess its standing after Super Tuesday and the Florida primary next year.
…………
Jacobson said the group wouldn’t disclose its donors, saying, “There’s nothing nefarious going on here.”
………….

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:36 pm

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:36 pm

Link for post.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:40 pm

I suspect due to demographics that my vote will not matter…probably like Rip in California. So, the vote is more aesthetic than anything. It goes into the big national vote vat to be regurgitated out to indicate intensity of preference.

I have voted write-in the last two…and slept beautifully each time. I have a preference to vote for SOMETHING though, so I would not mind a Hogan run provided it has a shot to make it interesting.

I might join norcal the Democrat but it will require a fair bit of booze to find that Biden bubble and not drive my pencil straight through it. I suppose the fate of the country and all that might steel my nerves.

There are no white knights out there for Rip. No magic Mark Cuban to out drama Trump and capture the imagination of…well…whoever would think it’s interesting to see Cuban run. The macro problem is that we have access to more information than we’ve ever had but we’re reverting to popularity elections like high school. Best to batten down the hatches and prepare for rough seas and hope for the best. Hope is not a plan but as one of 332M, it’s all we got

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:42 pm

Of course, for those who believe Trump is no worse than Biden, it’s a different story. I think those people are nuts, and they may live to regret voting third party, but I don’t begrudge their choice.

Since there isn’t a national popular vote, lurker, where a vote for a candidate is effectively a vote against the other guy in a two-party race, I think it’s intellectually okay to protest-vote for Door #3, especially when we have an Electoral College and especially in WA State where the Democrat has won by double digits in the last four presidential races. If there’s a close race and if WA State somehow becomes a decisive battleground, I may reconsider my approach.

But there also this: I’m just not going to vote for Mentally Unhinged Malignant Narcissist or Mentally Diminished With Fourth-Rate VP, regardless of political party. I just won’t. In my mental construct, there has to be some minimum threshold for me to actually vote for someone. If there’s a Hogan-Manchin ticket, minimum threshold met. Like I more or less said to Rip, I don’t have high standards, but there should be a standard.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:48 pm

He was leading nationally though, so he was (Mean Value Theorem) probably leading in some.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:16 pm

I assume he was ahead in some states, but he wasn’t leading nationally. As I said and as the Wikipedia link shows, by the time Perot left the race, Bush had pulled into a statistical tie, (i.e., he was ahead within the margin of error).

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:53 pm

Incoherence is one of the many unhappy side effects a party experiences when it abandons its values.

The only candidate on that stage that represented traditional GOP values was Haley. Maybe Scott if you consider he only has one set of values, and those are far older than the GOP itself.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:59 pm

The point, lurker, was that I was responding to Rip’s lazy challenge @280 of “which states was PErot leading in?” to try to prove Perot had no chance. So I gave an equally lazy answer, suggesting he go look it up. He didn’t.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:03 pm

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 2:47 pm

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 5:13 pm

There is no need for the gratuitous insults about “standards”. My standard is what will it take to defeat Donald Trump. Given the fact that No Labels intends to win the 2024 election (but will probably fall short), the question is whether they take or give votes in favor of Trump’s election. I believe their campaign will allow Trump to win either outright or in the House.

If you twisted my arm (and you would) I think Will Hurd would be great.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:03 pm

I assume he was ahead in some states, but he wasn’t leading nationally.

Oh, I missed that. Perot HAD been leading nationally in the Gallup poll as of June 11, 1992.

THE 1992 CAMPAIGN: On the Trail; POLL GIVES PEROT A CLEAR LEAD (NYT)

In a three-way general election matchup, Ross Perot has moved to a clear lead over both President Bush and Gov. Bill Clinton in the latest Gallup Poll.

In the telephone poll of 815 registered voters nationwide, conducted June 4 to 8, Mr. Perot was supported by 39 percent, Mr. Bush by 31 percent, and Mr. Clinton by 25 percent. The poll had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus four percentage points.

In a previous Gallup matchup in late May, Mr. Bush and Mr. Perot were tied at 35 percent each, while Mr. Clinton was supported by 25 percent.

No previous independent or third party candidate has ever placed second, much less first, in nearly six decades of Gallup’s nationwide polling for President

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:06 pm

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:03 pm

I’m not obligated to do your work for you. You made the assertion, you should back it up.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:06 pm

Free link to above

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:08 pm

I’m not obligated to do your work for you. You made the assertion, you should back it up.

You made the assertion, embedded in a question, suggesting if I did not do YOUR work for you, your assertion would hold up.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:09 pm

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:06 pm

That and I’m not really interested in something that happened 31 years ago involving voters and candidates who are dead and gone and with very little relevance in 2023.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:10 pm

I think Will Hurd would be great.

Will Hurd is a Lilliputian, to Lilliputians.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:12 pm

That and I’m not really interested in something that happened 31 years ago involving voters and candidates who are dead and gone and with very little relevance in 2023.

How fast “never” becomes “not recently” when it refutes your argument.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:13 pm

Will Hurd is a Lilliputian, to Lilliputians.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:12 pm

Only among then Republicans in their primary. As the No Labels candidate he would be king.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:15 pm

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:13 pm

Nobody cares about Ross Perot, I’m sure most people today couldn’t identify him.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:17 pm

No Labels Will Make the 2024 Election Even Worse
…………..
Polls taken thus far point in the same direction: The net effect of a bipartisan ticket would be to weaken Joe Biden’s prospects against Donald Trump. The most recent poll, conducted by the Prime Group, offers details about how this would work. In a two-way race, Mr. Biden would beat Mr. Trump in the popular vote 52% to 48%. But in a three-way race, Mr. Trump would receive 40% of the vote to Mr. Biden’s 39%, giving the former president a majority in the Electoral College.
………….
Prime Group produced expanded samples of voters in the seven key swing states to understand the possible effects of a moderate independent candidacy. Adding the option of a No Labels slate would expand Mr. Trump’s narrow winning margins in Arizona and Georgia, move Michigan and Pennsylvania from toss-ups to Mr. Trump’s column, transform a projected Biden victory in Wisconsin into another win for Mr. Trump, and make Nevada a jump ball. (The results in the seventh swing state, North Carolina, didn’t change, with Mr. Trump winning either way.) After allocating the electoral votes of the nonswing states to their near-certain victors, a No Labels candidacy would increase Mr. Trump’s total from 262 to 306, giving him an outright win.

………….(No Labels) discussion of Social Security is limited to two principles—no one at or near retirement should be exposed to benefit cuts, and neither should lower-income and middle-class Americans. But telling most Americans that their benefits won’t be cut is the easy part. How would these principles induce either of the major-party candidates to propose serious solutions?

………. Balancing the budget would require steps that the people won’t accept, so we should aim instead to ensure that the national debt doesn’t grow faster than the economy. Fair enough, but achieving this goal would require an estimated $8.4 trillion in deficit reduction over the next decade, more than five times what the House Republicans proposed in their debt-ceiling bill earlier this year.
………….
I’m sure of this: Contrary to No Labels’ hopes, its ticket would have no chance of winning. And despite its stated intentions, an independent candidacy would materially increase Mr. Trump’s chances of re-entering the Oval Office………….
########.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:40 pm

Adding the option of a No Labels slate would expand Mr. Trump’s narrow winning margins in Arizona and Georgia,

This is obviously wrong, since Biden won both states.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:43 pm

I suspect due to demographics that my vote will not matter…probably like Rip in California. So, the vote is more aesthetic than anything. It goes into the big national vote vat to be regurgitated out to indicate intensity of preference.

I respect your right to use your vote however your conscience dictates, but if you want your vote to matter more, there are ways to make that happen. In 2016 I traded my meaningless California vote with a friend in Pennsylvania who recognized the danger of Trump but couldn’t bring himself to pull the lever for Hillary. So he executed my Hillary vote and I did his for Evan McMullin. I know there were apps back which facilitated that kind of arrangement. I hope there will be again next year, since all my swing state friends have been scared straight. They don’t need my help any more to vote for anyone with a pulse who can beat Trump.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:44 pm

Hurd has impressed me on one-on-one interviews. But if Hogan has insufficient name recognition, then Hurd is the Michael Anthony to Hogan’s Eddie Van Halen. Hurd is that sensible speaking politician that we need more of in the House, but he really has no executive experience, no law degree, and seems better suited to be a national security advisor of sorts based on his CIA experience.

My test, do you have a past position with responsibilities and duties at all similar to the job that you are applying for…and what are your accomplishments that give me a sense of how you perform under stress? Anybody can have a position on an issue….Ramaswamy demonstrates that daily….it’s another thing to have leadership experience. The Presidency is not an entry-level position.

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:45 pm

Nobody cares about Ross Perot, I’m sure most people today couldn’t identify him.

Then stop saying provably wrong things like “A third party candidate can’t win.” Stick to “haven’t yet”

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:48 pm

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:43 pm

The statement refers to Prime Group’s polling in those states. See page 7 here.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:52 pm

Since there isn’t a national popular vote, lurker, where a vote for a candidate is effectively a vote against the other guy in a two-party race, I think it’s intellectually okay to protest-vote for Door #3, especially when we have an Electoral College and especially in WA State where the Democrat has won by double digits in the last four presidential races. If there’s a close race and if WA State somehow becomes a decisive battleground, I may reconsider my approach.

I respect your bright lines, but if you change your mind and, as I expect, Washington isn’t close (if it is we’re probably all $crewed anyway), see my response to AJ @407.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:52 pm

“I know there were apps back which facilitated that kind of arrangement.”

First I trade my vote, next I’m lying semi-conscious in the bath tub wondering where my second kidney went. I saw this play out on the TV…and this cat ain’t having none of that.

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:53 pm

see my response to AJ @407.

First I’ve heard about it, lurker. It’s worth at least looking into.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:56 pm

“This is obviously wrong, since Biden won both states.”

You obviously haven’t been reading Truth Social

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:58 pm

These arguments here against no labels are the same arguments I heard on MSDNC in 2016 on why I had to vote for clinton. How dare you vote third party! Don’t you know it messes up are two party game where we run the lesser of two evils so you have to vote for what ever POS we put up! I refused and am quite happy with the results as AOC and the squad would not have been elected if clinton would have won. Abortion is now for the left what gun control has been for the last 50 years for the right voting against every gun control democrat on the ballot and now democrats doing the same on pro-life republicans (is there any other kind?) Democrats are now ready to clean house on republicans on the supreme court just waiting for a democrat candidate to lead the house cleaning.

asset (56a740) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:04 pm

I’m lying semi-conscious in the bath tub wondering where my second kidney went

A little late to start worrying. How’d you lose the first one? Now you have to be vigilant. Lose a couple more and you’re on thin ice.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:22 pm

You obviously haven’t been reading Truth Social

Pretty sure Trump won California, too.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:27 pm

asset (56a740) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:04 pm

I’ll probably regret asking this, but exactly how do you imagine Democrats cleaning house on Republicans on the Supreme Court?

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 10:29 pm

These arguments here against no labels are the same arguments I heard on MSDNC in 2016 on why I had to vote for clinton.

Not really as your other choices were fringe candidates who never appeal to the mass of voters. No Labels is about centrist candidates. Running a Bill Clinton when the two parties are running McGovern and Goldwater.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:06 pm

@418 Stack the supreme court. Impeachment for corruption after corrupt republicans in congress have been arrest for aiding or joining the insurrectionists. Declare martial law if necessary to arrest them like Lincoln did with the copperheads. Thats just the beginning the fbi can be used to investigate their financial dealings. I remember when republicans were happy that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich or anti-war protesters like the chicago eight. Or socialists running for president like eugene debs. Remember what happened to sacco and vanzetti?

asset (56a740) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:09 pm

@419 The arguments are the same even if the candidates are different. The same arguments was used against tulsi gabbard and others in 2020.

asset (56a740) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:13 pm

asset (56a740) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:09 pm

Sure, that’ll happen. *eye roll*

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/4/2023 @ 11:59 pm

@422 demographics is my friend not republicans friend. If you disagree look at 2022 election supposed red wave which abortion ruling stopped dead in its tracks, where NY voters took out 4 establishment democrats because left would not vote for corporate stooges giving house by 4 votes to republicans. NY courts have ruled 2022 districts will not be used for 2024 congressional districts so NY democrats can gerrymander them right back and left democrats will win them back. I dare sean patrick maloney to try and run against mondair jones again.

asset (56a740) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:17 am

Poor MTG! In the Battle of Loony Ridge, she is in a foxhole with a slingshot against Burning Man’s three armored divisions.

nk (1804ca) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:41 am

It’s good that they take the precaution of having it out in the desert in case the inanity reaches critical mass.

nk (fcc8d1) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:18 am

She gets an “A” for effort, but Laura Loomer’s attempt to out-nutter Marge came up just a bit short.

CONGRESS MUST INVESTIGATE IMMEDIATELY!

Given the fact that the FBI and CIA were aware of and in touch with known Nazi Ukrainian spies at the US Capitol on J6, what I have uncovered and exposed is enough to exonerate President Trump and end this phony J6 committee WITCH HUNT once and for all!

The FBI and CIA have covered up the fact that Ukraine committed an act of war against the US on J6 2021 because they are using Ukrainian Nazis and spies to carry out a color revolution in the United States for the sake of preventing Donald Trump from being in the White House as President ever again.

From Charlottesville, to the first impeachment of Donald Trump via Vindman, to J6 and the current pop up Nazi rallies across the US in key swing states, it all traces back to Ukraine Nazis who are being protected by and funded by the
@CIA AND @FBI!

Our intelligence agencies are terrorist organizations.

This is treason. And people must go to prison for this.

But the day is early Kari Lake hasn’t spoken up yet. I’m trying to minimize nutpicking, but all three have Trump’s ear.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:06 am

Well, Ms. Loomer will be on the air with Steve Brannon to broadcast more about this plot.

People believe this garbage. It’s stupid and sounds like the worst of North Korea propaganda. But people still believe it and influence others to believe it or give it credence.

Appalled (5c53ee) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:22 am

@281 I would say the Electoral College is probably the biggest impediment, and no court can overturn.

Rip Murdock (5ab8fa) — 9/4/2023 @ 9:04 am
Another good reason to keep the Electoral College.

whembly (5f7596) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:49 am

Hurd has impressed me on one-on-one interviews. But if Hogan has insufficient name recognition, then Hurd is the Michael Anthony to Hogan’s Eddie Van Halen. Hurd is that sensible speaking politician that we need more of in the House, but he really has no executive experience, no law degree, and seems better suited to be a national security advisor of sorts based on his CIA experience.

My test, do you have a past position with responsibilities and duties at all similar to the job that you are applying for…and what are your accomplishments that give me a sense of how you perform under stress?

Hurd has experience overthrowing governments. 🤣

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:55 am

“This is obviously wrong, since Biden won both states.”

You obviously haven’t been reading Truth Social

AJ_Liberty (a3b442) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:58 pm

You obviously missed my post 410.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:57 am

Laura does not loom as large as Marge?

nk (a772fe) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:58 am

Nobody cares about Ross Perot, I’m sure most people today couldn’t identify him.

Then stop saying provably wrong things like “A third party candidate can’t win.” Stick to “haven’t yet”

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 6:48 pm

Absent data to the contrary, I will stick with “can’t win.”

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:59 am

The 14th Amendment Trump Panic
……….
We agree that the (14th Amendment’s) disqualification clause has continuing legal force. Its relevance didn’t expire when the last of the Confederates died. What matters today, and in the future, is whether the clause applies to the facts of a specific case. And this is where the never Trumpers go awry—legally and politically.

For starters, they assert that Mr. Trump’s actions after the 2020 election amount to an insurrection and that this is self-evident. ………
………..
It is surely relevant that Mr. Trump hasn’t been charged with insurrection under 18 U.S.C. Section 2383. Does anyone think special prosecutor Jack Smith would have refrained from charging that crime if he believed he could prove it in court? Instead he has charged a conspiracy to overturn the election, but that is not a rebellion.
……….
……….(P)roponents argue that the disqualification clause is “self-executing,” meaning that it automatically applies to someone who meets the criteria. They say it doesn’t require a criminal conviction in court and can be invoked by state officials to keep Mr. Trump off the ballot. So the Michigan secretary of state, an elected Democrat, could bounce him from that state’s ballot.

This would seem to violate the due-process protections that are explicit elsewhere in the Constitution. Removing Mr. Trump by fiat would also deny voters the constitutional right to vote for the candidate of their choice. ……..

This is how tens of millions of voters would see it, and the fury in response might not be limited to verbal protests or marches. Knocking Mr. Trump off the ballot would validate, in the eyes of his supporters, his claims that the election system is rigged and corrupt.
………..
For Mr. Trump’s opponents, these risks are justified because the former President poses a unique threat to U.S. democracy. They’re willing to put democracy at risk in order to save it. …….
………..

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 9:10 am

Nikki Haley is tied in NH:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/nikki-haley-catches-desantis-in-new-hampshire-gop-primary-poll/

whembly (5f7596) — 9/5/2023 @ 9:11 am

Nikki Haley is tied in NH:
……..

whembly (5f7596) — 9/5/2023 @ 9:11 am

LOL! From your link:

The poll, the first to show Haley tied with DeSantis in New Hampshire since the first GOP presidential debate in late August, is a relative outlier as DeSantis sits at 13 percent to Haley’s 3.8 percent in a RealClearPolitics average of New Hampshire polls.
…………
However, DeSantis edges Haley on second-choice ballots, with 20 percent of New Hampshire voters saying they would vote for DeSantis after Trump, according to the poll. Haley remains at 15 percent on second-choice ballots.

And still 37 points behind Trump.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 9:31 am

Fresh off his praise of Putin’s homeland as “the great Russian empire” (which he later climbed down, curiously stating that “I was not thinking of imperialism when I said that”), Pope Francis is (or was) in China praising another empire, the one led by Genghis Khan for his respect for religious freedom.

In addition to being tolerant of various religious faiths, Mr. Khan could also be fairly described as “one of the largest mass murderers and most prolific rapists in history”. Francis’ remarks remind me of leftists in the 1990s praising the communist Cuban island prison for their free healthcare.

Pope Francis is 86–six years older than a Joe Biden whom three-quarters of Democrats said is too old–and needs a wheelchair to get around, but hopefully not a transport like this.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/5/2023 @ 9:44 am

Correction. Mongolia, not China.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/5/2023 @ 9:45 am

Historically, a fair chunk of NH voters decide late
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/09/a-big-caveat-too-all-that-new-hampshire-polling-voters-decide-late/
130 days is a lot of days

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 10:44 am

Laura does not loom as large as Marge?

nk (a772fe) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:58 am

Ahaha! Another good one, nk.

norcal (cbfd8e) — 9/5/2023 @ 11:33 am

https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/09/israel-netanyahu-vows-to-stop-illegal-immigration-reinforce-border-fence-after-tel-aviv-riot/

Oh look, Israel is doing a massive crackdown and deportation of illegal aliens as well as building a wall. I guess it can be done after all.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 11:50 am

Hitting All the (Alt-Right) Conspiracy Notes:

Vivek Ramaswamy is seeking a meeting with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, he told the Washington Free Beacon, which could make him the first U.S. presidential candidate to meet with the controversial publisher in prison.

“I’d like to meet him. No success in getting in touch yet,” Ramaswamy told the Free Beacon on Friday, adding that he has asked former representative Ron Paul for help brokering the sit-down during Ramaswamy’s planned visit to London later this month.

Ramaswamy has vowed to pardon the Wikileaks founder on his first day in office, calling it “downright shameful” that Assange “still sits in a foreign prison in exile.” He has also said he would pardon Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who exposed thousands of top secret documents on American surveillance programs and sought refuge in Russia.
……….
His support for Assange is also outside the mainstream. Other candidates have criticized Assange, including former vice president Mike Pence, who called the Wikileaks publisher’s actions one of the biggest “compromises of classified information in American history.” Former president Donald Trump also declined to pardon Assange during his time in the White House.
……….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 11:53 am

Adding the option of a No Labels slate would expand Mr. Trump’s narrow winning margins in Arizona and Georgia, move Michigan and Pennsylvania from toss-ups to Mr. Trump’s column, transform a projected Biden victory in Wisconsin into another win for Mr. Trump, and make Nevada a jump ball. (The results in the seventh swing state, North Carolina, didn’t change,

But did they check what would happen in Texas,if the candidate was endorsed by George W. Bush and Biden or Kamala Harris polling third in Texas? The Republican Party is split in Texas, with only the hard right or Trumpists opposing the impeachment if Attorney General Paxton.

DId they even try to factor in the value of “momentum?”

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:05 pm

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 11:50 am

Israel is doing a massive crackdown and deportation of illegal aliens

No it isn’t, although Netanyahu has endorsed the massive deportation iof Eritreans because if a fight that broke out in Tel Aviv. eritrea is a terrible dictatorship that drafts men into indefinite service in the army, like the cantonists in Czarist Russia under Nicholas I.

The Eritrean embassy organized a pro government independence day a=rally and they were attacked by dissidents – something that has also happened in Sweden. It seem like the Eritrean dissidents think this is a good way to draw attention to their cause. And then police tried to break it up and they got attacked also.

There is also a crime problem because too many westernized societies have lost their antibodies to crime.

as well as building a wall.

The wall was built in 2013 – but it is not the wall that has kept out new “infiltrators” but the fact that Hamas has a presence in the Sinai. And then this smuggling route stopped and instead Eritreans go to Libya – you don’t think you van dam it up, do you? You can only divert it. And in Libya they suffer and drown trying to get to Italy.

I guess it can be done after all.

The Israeli Supreme Court is blocking even imprisoning them.

Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:20 pm

Yes it is Sammy.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:24 pm

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fauci-knew-nih-funded-wuhans-gain-of-function-research-as-pandemic-began-email-reveals/

Fauci belongs in jail. He broke the law by funding gain-of-function research then lied under oath about it to Congress. If you claim to you support the rule of law, but allow this evil man to skate, that says it all.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:26 pm

Sammy, you support open borders. Must Israel allow the “right-of-return” and all illegals to settle in their territory?

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:28 pm

@441, Yep, Ramaswamy is UNFIT. Further confirmation. Except for the obvious health hazards, I really wish the GOP would return to the smoke-filled rooms to winnow the field to candidates that are in the mainstream. Yes, that removes the kooks….but what good candidate would have been filtered because of this?

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:30 pm

And still 37 points behind Trump.

At 47%, Trump is still short of a majority. Some of his support comes from “winneritis”, the compulsion to always vote for the front-runner. If the other non-trivial GOP candidates every settled on a unified opposition, like the Democrats did with Biden, Trump would have a contest on his hands.

A big if, of course, as some egos just cannot accept arithmetic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:33 pm

@433:

While i expect to see some efforts to get him off the ballot (and these might even work in deep blue states), I agree that the dangers are too great, at least until he is convicted of serious crimes. If a state disallows felons from appearing on ballots, well there is always a write-in.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:36 pm

#448

How many GOP candidates believe Trump must be defeated for the GOP nomination, even if they aren’t the winner? As long as that dynamic is missing, forget your dreams.

Appalled (03f53c) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:59 pm

At 47%, Trump is still short of a majority.

Trump only needs a plurality to win the most delegates in the primary.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:04 pm

I really wish ~~the GOP~~ both parties would return to the smoke-filled rooms to winnow the field to candidates that are in the mainstream.

FIFY.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:05 pm

If the other non-trivial GOP candidates every settled on a unified opposition……

There’s that word again……

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:07 pm

The New Hampshire GOP awards delegates on a proportional basis; Trump can win the nomination by consistently winning proportional primaries with less than 50% of the vote, while winning delegates outright by coming in first.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:10 pm

as some egos just cannot accept arithmetic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 12:33 pm

LOL!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:11 pm

FYI,

The Georiga RICO statute is being applied to the ANTIFA allied bunch that has been trying to colonize police department property:

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/breaking-more-than-60-training-center-activists-named-in-rico-indictment/DQ6B6GHTAJAJRH4SLGIIBAMXR4/

Something that Portland might want to consider.

Appalled (03f53c) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:17 pm

The New Hampshire GOP awards delegates on a proportional basis…….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:10 pm

Only to those who receive 10% of the vote; right now that would only be Trump and DeSantis.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:17 pm

Correction:

Only to those who receive 10% or more of the vote; right now that would only be Trump and DeSantis.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:17 pm

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:24 pm

CNN Poll 9/5/23

Former President Donald Trump continues to hold what has proven to be an unshakeable position atop the Republican field of candidates vying to take on President Joe Biden next year, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

Trump is the top choice for his party’s nomination at the traditional Labor Day start to a more engaged campaign season, ahead of his nearest rival by more than 30 percentage points (52% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independent voters support him, compared with 18% behind Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis). And Trump is broadly seen as best able to handle a wide range of issues.

More than 4 in 10 in the potential GOP primary electorate say they have definitely decided to support him for the nomination (43% are definite Trump backers, 20% are firmly behind another candidate, and 37% have no first choice or say they could change their minds). Nearly two-thirds consider him one of their top two choices, and 61% say they think he is extremely or very likely to become the party’s nominee, up from 52% at the start of the summer. Most feel the criminal charges Trump faces are not relevant to his ability to serve as president, and a majority of GOP-aligned voters are not seriously concerned about the impact the charges could have on Trump’s electability.

……..Around 1 in 5 Republican-aligned voters say they would not support Trump in the primary under any circumstances and 16% say the charges he faces related to his role in the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol are disqualifying if true – but that segment remains a minority and has not consolidated around any single Trump rival.

The poll — conducted entirely after the first GOP debate in August, which Trump did not attend – finds DeSantis the only other contender to reach double-digits, although his backing has dipped 8 points since June. Behind him, former Vice President Mike Pence and former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley hold 7% support each, with businessman Vivek Ramaswamy at 6%. South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott has 3% support, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie has 2%, and the rest of the tested field stands at 1% or less.
………..
Broadly speaking, Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say that, if true, the charges Trump faces across four criminal cases are not relevant to his fitness for the presidency (70% say so regarding the charges related to hush money payments to an adult film actress, and 64% each say the same about charges related to classified documents, efforts to overturn the 2020 election, and related to his role in January 6.)
………
When asked to name their biggest concern about Trump as a candidate, Republican-aligned voters largely do not cite his legal woes. Just 6% name the indictments he’s facing or his legal situation, and 3% mention worry that he could be convicted or imprisoned. Overall, 18% say they have no concerns about Trump as a candidate or offer a positive comment about him. …….
………..
All told, 63% of Republican and Republican-leaning voters now say they will definitely support their first-choice candidate, while 37% could change their minds or have not chosen any candidate. Those figures are broadly driven by Trump’s supporters – 83% of whom say they’ve made up their minds compared with 43% of those who pick another candidate as their first choice — and suggest that nomination preferences are significantly more locked in now than in previous cycles……
……….
Ramaswamy is the only debate participant whose standing in the race has shown significant improvement since June, rising from just 1% support to 6%. Haley has been steadily between 5% and 7% in each CNN poll on the race, with Scott between 2% and 4%, while DeSantis has lost meaningful ground over the summer. …….
……….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:43 pm

Only to those who receive 10% or more of the vote; right now that would only be Trump and DeSantis.

And, if the recent poll is correct, Haley.

But Trump’s people don’t like this scheme and are trying to make contests winner-take-all. This may backfire when he needs clemency from President Harris.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:43 pm

And, if the recent poll is correct, Haley.</blockquote

And as the National Review article pointed out, this poll is an outlier and the RCP average for Haley is 3.8 percent.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:47 pm

DeSantis, Scott, Christie, Hutchinson, Bergum and Pence should drop out and endorse Haley. She’s the only one of them who can get votes from independents, #nevertrump and moderate Democrats, many of whom will be voting in GOP primaries and of course the general election.

A debate between Haley and Trump would be pretty one-sided, if misogynistic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:49 pm

And as the National Review article pointed out, this poll is an outlier and the RCP average for Haley is 3.8 percent.

And the over/under for Trump is 20 years.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:50 pm

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:47 pm

In which case Trump leads Nikki by 40.5 points, instead of 34 points.

🤣

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:51 pm

And the over/under for Trump is 20 years.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:50 pm

LOL! Not backed by anything except your fevered fantasies.

That does raise an interesting question. Maybe Jim Miller can let us know of the odds offered by British bookies on Trump’s future.

My bet is that even if convicted in any of the trials, Trump won’t serve a day in prison (unless it is in a Club Fed facility) due to his health and security needs.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:01 pm

61 black lives matter protesters indicted in georgia by republican AG for protesting cop city. One protester charged with terrorism for handing out flyers protesting the death of black lives protester shot by cops. The establishment democrats and republicans use the law to get their opposition. This is why I have been opposing the trump prosecution two wrongs don’t make a right! This happens to my side all the time and now the trumpsters. As paster neomoller said when they came for me there was nobody left to say anything!

asset (3d2b4e) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:23 pm

That does raise an interesting question. Maybe Jim Miller can let us know of the odds offered by British bookies on Trump’s future.

The betting markets make Trump 75% to do no prison time before 2025. I couldn’t find anything for after that, or for how much time he might do if he does any. It’s six to five and pick em whether I’m Jim Miller.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:26 pm

The meme must be established that, regardless of current Biden/Trump neck-and-neck polls, Trump cannot win in November. The reason being that no candidate can survive having 2 months of a court case rehashing the January 6th details daily. Even if Fox plays defense counsel…which invariably they will try…the weight of the testimony will be withering. And Trump will either risk contempt by saying dumb stuff outside the courtroom or he will be effectively off the trail for weeks. Only a born-again Trumper would look at that scenario and say that it looks good. There’s simply not enough Republicans in the country to win in the swing states. Couple this with the possibility of a conviction and the Constitutional crisis of a self pardon…and none of this is good for the country or for mounting an effective opposition to Biden.

So this is what must be beaten like a dead horse for the next 4 months and during any debates. It’s not a statement of how one feels about the charges or the likelihood of conviction, it’s the impact on the campaign. DeSantis and Haley are still positioned to deliver these truths. Christie and Hurd will be tuned out by the part of the 59% that is still persuadable. The 20% of NeverTrump already acknowledge the view and will gladly support whoever emerges other than Vivek to oppose Trump.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:29 pm

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:26 pm

Thanks!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:30 pm

The reason being that no candidate can survive having 2 months of a court case rehashing the January 6th details daily. Even if Fox plays defense counsel…which invariably they will try…the weight of the testimony will be withering…….DeSantis and Haley are still positioned to deliver these truths.

Based on the CNN poll posted above:

More than 4 in 10 in the potential GOP primary electorate say they have definitely decided to support him for the nomination (43% are definite Trump backers, 20% are firmly behind another candidate, and 37% have no first choice or say they could change their minds). Nearly two-thirds consider him one of their top two choices, and 61% say they think he is extremely or very likely to become the party’s nominee, up from 52% at the start of the summer. Most feel the criminal charges Trump faces are not relevant to his ability to serve as president, and a majority of GOP-aligned voters are not seriously concerned about the impact the charges could have on Trump’s electability.

Trump’s support is baked in.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:35 pm

Trump will likely spend no time in prison with appeals and pressure for the next administration to get behind it, ala Watergate. But I could see house arrest and rules for engaging in any politicking. Biden would have less incentive to give a full pardon…especially after an undoubtedly nasty campaign, with over-the-top attacks on Hunter. I wouldn’t blame him. A commutation would be more likely, with a requirement of a brutal elocution. The question would be whether Trump commits additional crimes leading up to election day and what further jeopardy arises. Desperate animals do desperate things.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:38 pm

“a majority of GOP-aligned voters are not seriously concerned about the impact the charges could have on Trump’s electability.”

Because they’ve not heard anything differently. That’s like asking someone who only watches Fox News whether the charges have any substance. Of course they say “no”. You don’t have to turn all 59%, just chip away at the inevitability as more voters turn in and listen more. What do polls say about the level of Republican voter engagement at this point? Nothing is baked unless no one goes on the offensive…and that is unknowable at this point.

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:45 pm

DeSantis, Scott, Christie, Hutchinson, Bergum and Pence should drop out and endorse Haley. She’s the only one of them who can get votes from independents, #nevertrump and moderate Democrats, many of whom will be voting in GOP primaries and of course the general election.

Comedy Gold!

DeSantis will never drop out and his supporters aren’t Haley supporters. Nobody is going to drop out before the first few primaries/caucuses (except maybe Hutchinson). Bergum is self-financing his campaign, so he will only drop out when he gets tired of spending his own money (along with Ramaswamy, whom you did not mention). Scott has a truckload of money available ($21M from his Senate coffers and $6M raised between April and June), though how he is spending it is reminiscent of Trump’s 2020 campaign. Christie’s Tell It Like It is super PAC has been receiving donations from former DeSantis donors so he has no incentive to quit the race until after the first few contests.

Even on a one on one debate I don’t see Haley going after Trump with a hammer and tongs. It may be a love fest.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:51 pm

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:38 pm

Agreed.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:54 pm

DeSantis, Scott, Christie, Hutchinson, Bergum and Pence should drop out and endorse Haley. She’s the only one of them who can get votes from independents, #nevertrump and moderate Democrats, many of whom will be voting in GOP primaries and of course the general election.

A debate between Haley and Trump would be pretty one-sided, if misogynistic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/5/2023 @ 1:49 pm

DeSantis is the only alternative to Trump. We aren’t going back to social leftism as a party. Enjoy your choice.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:55 pm

“a majority of GOP-aligned voters are not seriously concerned about the impact the charges could have on Trump’s electability.”

Because they’ve not heard anything differently…….

Trump’s voters have heard all they want to hear, and they don’t care:

“In 2016, I declared, ‘I am your voice,’” Mr. Trump told the crowd in National Harbor, Md. “Today, I add: I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution.”

Source

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:59 pm

Ex-Proud Boys leader Tarrio sentenced to 22 years for Jan. 6 Capitol attack

Former Proud Boys leader Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, convicted of leading the group that one judge called “the tip of the spear that allowed people to end up getting into the Capitol” on Jan. 6, 2021, was sentenced Tuesday to 22 years in prison, the longest sentence yet among the hundreds convicted of disrupting the peaceful transfer of presidential power.

Tarrio, 39, was convicted of seditious conspiracy and obstructing the congressional proceeding meant to confirm the 2020 presidential election as part of a riot that U.S. District Judge Timothy J. Kelly said last week broke America’s long democratic tradition of peaceful transfers of power. ……..
………..
………..(P)rosecutors said he recruited people to join in a violent assault on the Capitol on Jan. 6 to keep Trump in power and messaged them “Don’t f—ing leave” as they led the storming of the building, causing the electoral vote count to stop for about six hours. Kelly cited that message Tuesday in ruling that Tarrio still had a leadership role on Jan. 6, even if he wasn’t in D.C. Tarrio denied planning an incursion into the Capitol and gave interviews after the riot saying he did not endorse that move by multiple Proud Boys, some of whom were among the first to enter the building.
………
In the case of (Ethan) Nordean, who was an on-the-ground leader of the Proud Boys in Tarrio’s absence, Kelly imposed an 18-year term. ……..

Last week, another Proud Boys leader on Jan. 6, Joseph Biggs, who headed the march along with Nordean, received a 17-year sentence, while members Zachary Rehl received 15 years and Dominic Pezzola received 10 years. Biggs’s and Rehl’s sentences are the third- and fourth-longest so far. Kelly last week told Pezzola, whose smashing of a Capitol window enabled the first breach of the building, “You really were in some ways the tip of the spear that allowed people to end up getting into the Capitol.”
……….
………. The rioters have said they were drawn to the Capitol by Donald Trump, who encouraged his backers to support his false claims of a stolen election, and who has now been targeted for prosecution himself for his efforts to subvert the election at the state level and in Congress.
………
“The actions of (the Proud Boys) were absolutely pivotal to what happened on January 6,” (Assistant U.S. Attorney Conor Mulroe) said, “and they followed the prodding and planning of Enrique Tarrio.”
……….
The group’s membership had been boosted by a seeming endorsement from Trump during a presidential debate with Biden in 2020, trial testimony showed. …….
……….
The D.C. judges in the Jan. 6 cases have imposed less time for sentences than requested by prosecutors in about 80 percent of the more than 500 defendant sentencings through mid-June, a Washington Post database shows.
##########

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:09 pm

The only alternative to Trump is a change in the rules. Trump wins the nomination with 35% of the Republican primary vote.

This has been a feature of presidential races since 1972.

Haley is not going to dominate him – or DeSantis.

There must be a real convention if you want to stop Trump..

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:11 pm

NJRob is correct the GOP isn’t the part of small government, fiscal discipline and Family values anymore. The base won’t support a candidate like Haley.

Time123 (203ccf) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:16 pm

“You really were in some ways the tip of the spear that allowed people to end up getting into the Capitol.”

But they didn’t come there from the Ellipse.

They came from the Washington Monument.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/31/us/politics/proud-boys-joseph-biggs-sentenced-jan-6.html

…Mr. Rehl marched with Mr. Biggs that day at the head of a crowd of nearly 200 Proud Boys from the Washington Monument to the Capitol and ultimately shot a canister of chemical spray at officers protecting the building. During the trial, he also lied about the attack, saying he had never assaulted anyone, Judge Kelly found.

Racked by sobs, Mr. Rehl apologized to his friends and family — and even the prosecution team — telling Judge Kelly he believed the “lies about the election” spread by politicians.

I don;tthink he did.

NYT

The rioters have said they were drawn to the Capitol by Donald Trump, who encouraged his backers to support his false claims of a stolen election, and who has now been targeted for prosecution himself for his efforts to subvert the election at the state level and in Congress.

They attached themselves to his cause, but they weren’t doing anything Donald Trump wanted.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:17 pm

They attached themselves to his cause, but they weren’t doing anything Donald Trump wanted.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:17 pm

LOL!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:21 pm

468. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:29 pm

So this is what must be beaten like a dead horse for the next 4 months and during any debates. It’s not a statement of how one feels about the charges or the likelihood of conviction, it’s the impact on the campaign. DeSantis and Haley are still positioned to deliver these truths. Christie and Hurd will be tuned out by the part of the 59% that is still persuadable. The 20% of NeverTrump already acknowledge the view and will gladly support whoever emerges other than Vivek to oppose Trump….

Nikki Haley put it this way:(about 1 hour and 22 minutes into the August 23, 2023 Fox News debate- throat clearing skipped)

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/fox-news-republican-presidential-primary-debate-transcript

We have to face the fact that Trump is the most disliked politician in America. We can’t win a general election that way.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:25 pm

Would Trump pardon the Proud Boys?
………
………The day of the riot, (Joe) Biggs twice entered the Capitol, helping to lead the initial push into the building. He was arrested on Inauguration Day and convicted of several felonies earlier this year, including seditious conspiracy.
……….
The day after Biggs’s conviction alongside other members of the Proud Boys, Trump decried the government’s handling of Jan. 6 cases.

“The DOJ and FBI are destroying the lives of so many Great American Patriots, right before our very eyes,” he wrote on social media. “The Court System is a RUBBER STAMP for their conviction and imprisonment.”

……….Last year, even before announcing his candidacy for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, he pledged that he would offer “full pardons with an apology to many.”
………..
(Alex) Jones asked Biggs whether he expected a pardon should Trump be reelected.

“Oh, I know he’ll pardon us,” Biggs replied. “I believe that with all my heart.”

During a CNN town hall in May, though, Trump was asked specifically about pardoning Proud Boys. He was noncommittal.
………..
……….. Key allies such as Paul Manafort, Roger Stone and Stephen K. Bannon were granted reprieves only after Trump had lost to Biden.

……….. Trump recognizes the value in hyping the Jan. 6 convictions as political; it fits nicely into his rhetoric about being unfairly targeted himself. But he also seems to recognize that giving someone like Manafort a pass was the sort of thing that was better done after voters went to the polls.

For that reason, it seems unlikely that Trump would commit to pardoning Biggs or other members of extremist groups before the 2024 election, should he be the nominee. There’s little additional political upside and a lot of downside. As president, though — and as a president who can’t stand for reelection? Biggs’s confidence may be justified.

That Trump now unquestionably knows who the Proud Boys are and what they stand for may not serve as much of a deterrent.
###########

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:35 pm

We have to face the fact that Trump is the most disliked politician in America.

Among Republican voters, it’s Chris Christie and Mike Pence.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:37 pm

They attached themselves to his cause, but they weren’t doing anything Donald Trump wanted.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:17 pm

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:21 pm

LOL!

True.

And the proof of it is that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol himself- and he was not misleading the crowd at the Ellipse like they were saying at the time of the first impeachment. The January 6 committee proved it even if they were wrong about the steering wheel.

A second proof is that in no way could the storming of the Capitol benefit Trump. Not even by causing a slight delay in the certification. Trump had his own plan for doing that (a fact generally left out from anti-Trump narratives) – and the storming of the Capitol probably made the end come sooner.

A long delay, past noon on January 20, would only make House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Acting President. And there is every bit of evidence that everybody in Trump’s entourage knew it (in that never did any of Giuliani or other people’s far fetched proposals envision carrying things past Jan 20. Ten days, they said.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:41 pm

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:41 pm

Speculation at best.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:43 pm

Time123 (203ccf) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:16 pm

Touché!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:46 pm

That is not to say that some people in Trump’s entourage knew something was up.

Mark Meadows did and schemed to break the news to Trump that he would not go to the Capitol as late as possible.

And one person went there to document that the he (and Alex Jones and Ali Alexander) had no part in it:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/kenneth-chesebro-jan-6-trump.html

Wearing a red MAGA hat, Mr. Chesebro can be seen joining Mr. Jones’s group outside the Capitol shortly before 2 p.m. that day, according to the photographs and video reviewed by The Times. The visual evidence shows he stayed with Mr. Jones, Mr. Alexander and others — including Owen Shroyer, one of Mr. Jones’s top aides — for about an hour and a half, often filming Mr. Jones on his cellphone as the group walked around the Capitol and went partly up the stairs outside the east front of the building.

Mr. Jones and Mr. Alexander were among the first “Stop the Steal” activists to draw attention from federal prosecutors investigating the Capitol riot. As early as April 2022, Mr. Jones reached out to the Justice Department in an unsuccessful effort to secure an immunity deal in exchange for information. Mr. Alexander was subpoenaed by — and ultimately testified to — a grand jury in Washington that was looking into various aspects of the attack.

What was Kennth Cheesbro filming Alex Jones doing – working very hard to document:

From another source we know:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/what-conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-said-in-the-lead-up-to-the-capitol-riot

Once outside the Capitol, Jones was filmed, bullhorn in hand. “We’re not antifa; we’re not BLM. You’re amazing. I love you. Let’s march around the other side, and let’s not fight the police and give the system what they want. We are peaceful, and we won this election. And as much as I love seeing the Trump flags flying over this, we need to not have the confrontation with the police. They’re gonna make that the story. I’m going to march to the other side, where we have a stage, where we can speak and occupy peacefully.”

Jones continued: “Trump is going to speak over here. Trump is coming.”

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:48 pm

NJRob is correct the GOP isn’t the part of small government, fiscal discipline and Family values anymore. The base won’t support a candidate like Haley.

Time123 (203ccf) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:16 pm

You are a liar who refuses to accurately quotw me.

You cannot have small government without socially conservative values. Libertine choices always lead to repercussions that enable big government.

NJRob (60e6d9) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:49 pm

Speculation at best.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:43 pm

When you have eliminated the impossible (that Trump planned the riot and knew it was coming) whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:50 pm

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 2:01 pm

My bet is that even if convicted in any of the trials, Trump won’t serve a day in prison (unless it is in a Club Fed facility) due to his health and security needs.

And certainly not in the Fulton County jail.

They’ll find away to prevent it.

They might offer a single person prison.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:52 pm

When you have eliminated the impossible (that Trump planned the riot and knew it was coming) whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:50 pm

LOL! squared.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:53 pm

Don’t forget: Trump can contest the 2024 election, like he did the 2022 0lection.

Unless maybe the election is in any case thrown into the House of Representatives.

Then he’ll work on members of Congress.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:54 pm

The truth can be funny.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 3:55 pm

SF: If Giuliani had tried to double check the story

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:06 pm

He didn’t care. It was useful.

Trump actually must have had some doubts because he asked Zelensky to check it out. (it was simply too good to be true)

Nobody in the media checked it out, except maybe for those who tried to avoid saying Biden lied about causing the firing of the Ukrainian prosecutor.

Almost nobody.

For four years running now!

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 4:01 pm

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/4/2023 @ 12:13 pm

I really don’t understand why your response is to mindread the person you’re defending, Sammy.

I generally don’t like to make people guilty. when there are other reasonable explanations.

The fact is that Giuliani told scads of lies and falsehoods and such about Ukraine, Russia and the 2020 election,

Giuliani seems to have explained that by saying that as Trump’s lawyer, he was obliged to believe them. He did drop Sidney Powell as an associate when she failedtoproduce evidenceshe claimed she had.

and he did it so prolifically that he faces disbarment, criminal convictions, civil lawsuit monetary settlements and possibly prison.

For filing cases he should not have filed.

Giuliani is also saying wrong things about Hunter Biden. That he was bagman. Gave half his money – to Joe.He got that idea from Steve Bannon.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/5/2023 @ 4:07 pm

Trump may have not known the precise details (except possibly through the Secret Service or Roger Stone), but he certainly saw the insurrection as politically useful. The Secret Service conveniently deleted two days’ worth of text messages around January 6th, which may have included communications with the Proud Boys; the SS was in direct communication with the Oath Keepers. So Trump had ample opportunity to find out what was planned.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 4:07 pm

Russian Media Watch:

……….
Igor Korotchenko, editor of the newspaper National Defense and a regular guest on the Russia 1 channel where guests have repeatedly called for strikes against Ukraine’s allies, took exception to criticism of Russian conduct in the war.

“Russia is being warned and threatened that if we misbehave, or if in [NATO senior member for logistics] Ben Hodges’ opinion, we exceed what he considers to be the necessary permissible lines for the use of all types of Russian weapons, he threatens us with more than just strikes on the Crimean bridge,” Korotchenko said.

Hodges has repeatedly called for Ukraine to be provided with all the weapons it needs to retake Crimea, such as ATACMS, (Army Tactical Missile Systems), which would allow long-range precision strikes on the peninsula Moscow annexed in 2014.
……….
……….Korotchenko said there should be a discussion about what will determine “the use and permissibility of tactical nuclear weapons what goals and what tactics we will use.”

“The most important message we should send to the Americans is that we will not wage war with you in Europe,” he said in a clip subsequently posted on X (formerly Twitter) by Ukrainian internal affairs adviser Anton Gerashchenko.

“In response to your attacks on Russian military or civilian facilities, the first strike will be a preventative limited strike against targets on the territory of the United States of America, ” he told the anchor of 60 Minutes, Yevgeny Popov. Last week, Russia announced that its Sarmat (NATO Code Name: Satan II) strategic missile system, which can reach the U.S., had been put on combat duty.
………..
“Russia has been threatening nuclear strikes since the beginning. I take them seriously because Russia has thousands of nuclear weapons and because they clearly don’t care how many innocent people may die,” (Hodges) said.

“But I think they realize that their nukes are actually most effective when they don’t use them. They see how we self-deter.”
……….

Yawn.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 5:43 pm

It was bad enough that Tuberville is blocking 301 military promotions, but then he went full asshole today on Kudlow, blaming the US for Putin’s War Against Ukraine. I won’t go into his litany of lies and falsehoods. All I can say is that, with each passing day, I recognize my party less and less.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/5/2023 @ 6:16 pm

RIP musician Gary Wright (80).

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 6:28 pm

With the way Biden has corrupted the military, turning it into a social justice platform, I hope Tuberville continues to block all political promotions. Good for him.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 7:01 pm

@499 As the song says you knew I was a snake before you let me in! Nixon’s southern strategy (1972) Reagan welcomes ignorant southern racist white trash into republican party. Philadelphia mississippi speech (1980) where the three civil rights workers were murdered. Lee atwater willie horton ad (1988) Atwater later asks forgivness to avoid meeting the devil in hell. You wanted their votes ;but they came with them.

asset (f32865) — 9/5/2023 @ 7:09 pm

With the way Biden has corrupted the military, turning it into a social justice platform, I hope Tuberville continues to block all political promotions. Good for him.

If it’s become so “corrupted” in the past 32 months of the Biden era, why has Tuberville not made a single amendment or prescription for anyone to vote on to end this alleged corruption?

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/5/2023 @ 7:43 pm

Because it will die under Schumer. But you knew that already. So don’t waste time with baited questions.

Good for Tuberville.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:20 pm

If Tuberville doesn’t have the courage of his convictions to actually spell out what he wants, that’s a Tuberville problem. Personally, I don’t think he’s smart enough to write his own amendment, given that this fella didn’t understand that there are three branches of government. And let’s not forget that just today he claimed that the Putin’s Russia is a communist regime. Somebody check him for CTE.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/5/2023 @ 8:36 pm

Tuberville has surpassed Ron Johnson as Putin’s favorite Senator.
Well done, Tommy. Free trip to Moscow, all the bells and whistles.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/5/2023 @ 10:01 pm

Tuberville is not reading the room. A rigid position on abortion might be good politics in Alabama, but the big picture is that his hold is negatively impacting morale of service people who want to move on with their careers and give their families some stability. It’s time to move on with the business of the country and stop grandstanding.

AJ_Liberty (a3a031) — 9/6/2023 @ 4:29 am

Look,

the people that support social leftism are telling the social conservative he must give up for the good of all. Funny how that always supports your policy preferences, but you are never willing to return the favor.

Good for Tuberville.

NJRob (262e89) — 9/6/2023 @ 4:34 am

My “policy preferences” are pro-life, like Tuberville’s, Rob.
Why is Tuberville being so coy that he won’t actually put forward a single change to the policies he don’t like?

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 6:00 am

Call me cynical, but I see the upside of the Trump Party alienating the military, alongside the civil service, the FBI, and the intelligence services. But given J6, I don’t think I’m all that cynical.

nk (cda8f3) — 9/6/2023 @ 6:19 am

Rob, I don’t understand what your position is. The best I can figure is that you’re saying:

“Biden has injected social leftism (not sure exactly what that entails) into the military and therefore no military officers deserve promotions.”

Is that correct? If so I don’t understand how that follows.

Nate (30f36d) — 9/6/2023 @ 7:18 am

@508

Look,

the people that support social leftism are telling the social conservative he must give up for the good of all. Funny how that always supports your policy preferences, but you are never willing to return the favor.

Good for Tuberville.

NJRob (262e89) — 9/6/2023 @ 4:34 am

I agree.

Good for Tuberville.

He’s exercising his powers as a Senator that is popular in his state.

Ya know…exactly how federalism works.

Democrats can overcome his hold. They can either:
a) have a vote (since Tuberville refused to give unanimous consent)
or
b) Biden administration backs down on the abortion policy

whembly (5f7596) — 9/6/2023 @ 7:52 am

@511

Rob, I don’t understand what your position is. The best I can figure is that you’re saying:

“Biden has injected social leftism (not sure exactly what that entails) into the military and therefore no military officers deserve promotions.”

Is that correct? If so I don’t understand how that follows.

Nate (30f36d) — 9/6/2023 @ 7:18 am

What don’t you follow?

Biden administration wants these positions filled. (which includes the joint chief of staff if I’m not mistaken)

Tubervilles wants the abortion policies at DoD reversed.

This is a normal tug ‘o war between Congress and Executive branch.

You can argue the ticky-tacky nature of this ordeal, as those officers really don’t have anything to do with the disputed policies. But, don’t ignore the fact that this is how governing works.

Tuberville will have to face his own constituents, with large military voters, in next election. Remains to be seen if Alabamian would ding him for this.

whembly (5f7596) — 9/6/2023 @ 7:58 am

They did close Fort Aniston during the first Clinton BRAC. But Alabama probably does provide a lot of Marines and spec forces (near Columbus GA) plus ex military in the Huntsville and TVA industrial corridor.

urbanleftbehind (e0be50) — 9/6/2023 @ 8:09 am

The military is paying the travel expenses of women soldiers based in anti-abortion states to travel for abortions to pro-abortion states. That miffs Tuberville. That’s it! The whole chitlin.

But for a carpetbagger, Tuberville has a pretty good grasp of Alabama “conservative family values”: “If them girls wuz going to git theys selves in a family way, they shoulda done it with kin when they wuz thurteen.”

nk (441654) — 9/6/2023 @ 8:21 am

Tuberville is not reading the room. A rigid position on abortion might be good politics in Alabama……

You mean Tommy Tuberville, the Alabama Senator who lives in Florida?

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:20 am

Trump Civil Litigation Watch:

……….
Judge Lewis Kaplan said that a federal jury’s verdict earlier this year against Trump will carry over to the defamation case set to go to trial in January involving statements Trump made in 2019 about Carroll’s sexual assault allegations.
……….
“The truth or falsity of Mr Trump’s 2019 statements therefore depends – like the truth or falsity of his 2022 statement – on whether Ms Carroll lied about Mr Trump sexually assaulting her,” the judge ruled Wednesday. “The jury’s finding that she did not therefore is binding in this case and precludes Mr Trump from contesting the falsity of his 2019 statements.”

Kaplan ruled the trial set for January 15 will be limited to damages.
……….
On Wednesday, Kaplan also rejected Trump’s argument that any future damages be capped, meaning the previous award shouldn’t be a factor for the jury. Carroll is seeking more than $10 million in damages.
……….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:30 am

Comedy Gold!

DeSantis will never drop out and his supporters aren’t Haley supporters.

Former Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner was among Ron DeSantis’ biggest boosters during the 2022 midterm election, giving nearly $1 million to his reelection bid. But as he has surveyed the field of GOP candidates for president, Rauner — a wealthy former private equity executive who was DeSantis’ fifteenth biggest donor in last year’s election — has not given any more money to the Florida governor. Rauner told POLITICO he thinks another candidate, former U.N Ambassador Nikki Haley, has a better shot of defeating President Joe Biden than DeSantis.

[emphasis mine]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/06/desantis-donors-florida-election-00114080

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:32 am

LOL! Not backed by anything except your fevered fantasies.

Yeah, Rip, it’s my opinion. Whaddayaknow. An opinion HERE, of all places. As opposed to your pessimism, defeatism, arrogance and all around water-carrying for a Trump-Biden rematch..

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:36 am

What a donor thinks is immaterial, he’s putting the cart before the horse. Does Rauner think Nikki has a better chance of defeating Trump? LOL!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:38 am

Yeah, Rip, it’s my opinion.

Which is fine, though not backed by any facts.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:38 am

DeSantis is the only alternative to Trump. We aren’t going back to social leftism as a party.

If you think that Haley is a social leftist because she doesn’t double down on the politically impossible, or because she removed the confederate battle flag from the state capitol, or maybe because she chooses not to be the jerk that DeSantis has become, well, you really need to take a better look at the spectrum of things.

If you see everyone less strident or hate-filled than DeSantis as a social leftist, you’re as bad as those who thought that anyone to the left of Goldwater was a Communist.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:42 am

Which is fine, though not backed by any facts.

No, it’s not backed by any polls. But, as Han Solo said “Never tell me the odds.” Polls are for cattle. Although, to be honest, I understand the math of polls far better than you do.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:43 am

Maybe Jim Miller can let us know of the odds offered by British bookies on Trump’s future.

About as meaningful as US opinions on the British prime minister’s future. Whoever he is.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:47 am

Trump is on track to sweep California’s delegates in presidential race, poll shows

Former President Trump dominates his rivals so heavily that he’s on track to win all of California’s delegates for next year’s Republican convention — a haul that would give him a major chunk of the votes needed to secure his third presidential nomination.
………
In late July, the California Republican Party changed its rules so that if a candidate wins more than 50% of the statewide vote in the state’s March 5 primary, he or she will claim all 169 GOP delegates — the most of any state in the nation. Previously, the rules allocated delegates by congressional district. A candidate needs just over 1,200 convention delegates to win the nomination.
………
The new poll shows about 55% of likely Republican voters plan to cast their primary ballots for Trump. DeSantis’ support has plummeted to 16% — less than half of what he had earlier this year.

“Californians have turned away, by and large, from DeSantis,” said Mark DiCamillo, director of the UC Berkeley institute’s poll. “The biggest beneficiary of DeSantis’ decline is the former president. There’s no question he’s well-liked by the Republican base.”
……….
The state party’s rule changes were one factor in the recent decision by a super PAC backing DeSantis to stop major campaign operations in California and several other states, NBC News reported last week.

On the Democratic side, the poll indicated President Biden holds a big lead ahead of California’s primary, with 66% of party voters supporting him, compared with 9% for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and 3% for Marianne Williamson. About 1 in 6 likely Democratic voters said they were undecided.
………
(Nikki) Haley now has the backing of 7% of the state’s likely GOP voters surveyed, double her support in the February poll. Businessman Vivek Ramaswamy, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, former Vice President Mike Pence, South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott and conservative talk radio host Larry Elder all trailed behind her. About 9% of the poll’s Republican participants said they supported someone else or were undecided.
………..

My emphasis.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:47 am

Maybe Jim Miller can let us know of the odds offered by British bookies on Trump’s future.

About as meaningful as US opinions on the British prime minister’s future. Whoever he is.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:47 am

I daresay gamblers take a more informed view of the future, since they actually take risks with their bets.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:50 am

Trump is far ahead in the only betting market where Americans can put money where there mouth is. Nikki Haley is flat lining. CODE BLUE!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:54 am

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:43 am

Feelings, nothing more than feelings…….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:57 am

We are now 14 months before the general election, and 4 months before the first primary. What people say now to pollsters isn’t something that is “baked in” since they can change their minds without difficulty. NO ONE will say, “Oh, I think I should vote for someone else, but I told a pollster I was voting for Trump and I can’t go back on my word!” Anyone who views polls now as indicative probably thinks horse races are decided at the first turn.

Voting intentions are fluid. W lost almost 5% of the vote less than a week before the 2000 election, due to a late-dropping smear. Smears work, or used to before Trump, who is evidently smear-proof.

Trump is going to be unable to campaign, his lawyers will have him gagged, and the pressure of these existential (for him) trials is going to wear him down. All he will have going for him is victim-status, and even that will wear thin, while his competitor(s) will be taking the fight to Biden.

I actually expect Trump to drop out once the reality of these trials takes shape. Sometime in the first quarter, when his numbers against Biden deteriorate and he starts to fear for his freedom. He’ll need a strong GOP candidate to win in November, so that he can get his pardon or clemency, and it’s not going to be him.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:59 am

Feelings, nothing more than feelings…….

Polls, nothing more than polls. Try to go a week without looking at a poll, Rip. If you can’t, you’re addicted.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:01 am

I actually expect Trump to drop out once the reality of these trials takes shape. Sometime in the first quarter, when his numbers against Biden deteriorate and he starts to fear for his freedom. He’ll need a strong GOP candidate to win in November, so that he can get his pardon or clemency, and it’s not going to be him.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 9:59 am

Comedy gold!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:05 am

Polls, nothing more than polls. Try to go a week without looking at a poll, Rip. If you can’t, you’re addicted.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:01 am

I have to keep looking in order to see that surge of support for Darling Nikki.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:06 am

But you’re right-it is boring to see Trump ahead of the field by 30+ points in most states.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:07 am

Morning Consult Republican Tracking Poll 9/6/23

…………
The bulk of the GOP’s electorate (60%) would back Trump if the primary or caucus were held in their state today, while 15% would support DeSantis.

Ramaswamy is backed by 8% of the party’s potential voters (down from 11%), followed by Pence (6%), Haley (5%), Christie (3%), South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott (2%) and former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (1%). North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum and former Texas Rep. Will Hurd each have 0% backing.
………
DeSantis is the second choice of 36% of potential GOP primary voters who are backing Trump, while 34% of the Florida governor’s supporters view Trump as their top backup option.

Haley is the second choice of 21% of DeSantis backers, up from 16% the week before. Only 6% of Trump supporters have Haley as their top backup option.
………
Hypothetical head-to-head matchups show Biden leading Trump by 3 points and DeSantis by 5 points among the general electorate. …….
………
Trump is popular with 76% of the party’s potential electorate, while 22% view him unfavorably.
………
Haley is maintaining positive buzz following the first debate. About 3 in 10 potential primary voters have recently heard something positive about her while 14% have recently heard something negative — though the bulk of the GOP’s primary electorate (57%) reported hearing nothing at all.
………

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:16 am

No surge yet for Nikki.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:17 am

Anyone who views polls now as indicative probably thinks horse races are decided at the first turn.

That’s true, but today’s polls do indicate where the race is now. And if you think campaigns aren’t polling daily and basing decisions on them, buy a clue.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:20 am

As opposed to your pessimism, defeatism, arrogance and all around water-carrying for a Trump-Biden rematch..

Pessimistic, yes. Like everyone else here (except for a few), I would like to see different candidates from both parties. I just don’t see it happening. There is just no evidence (yet) that “a change is gonna come.” I don’t see any evidence of a knight in shining armor running to rescue the Republican Party, hoping there will be at some point is not a strategy.

The Morning Consult Republican national preference poll shows Trump hitting 60 percent for the first time. It is obvious the base of the party backs him for the nomination. To say otherwise is a denial of reality.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:39 am

Has anyone noticed that, around the world, insipid and insular mainstream politics are being threatened by populism and/or extremists? This is more a failure of those who defend indefensible status quos than it is an endorsement of extremism. Those who resist change are doomed to get it in a flood, by and by.

Trump is nothing more than a symptom.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:47 am

The Morning Consult Republican national preference poll shows Trump hitting 60 percent for the first time. …….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:39 am

Correction: Trump has exceeded 60 percent on three occasions, hitting 61% on May 14th, July 22nd, and August 8th.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:48 am

If I had to guess (and this is based on no more “facts” than my baseball picks, as all such “facts” are ephemeral), the 2024 election will be Haley v Newsom.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:49 am

Trump is nothing more than a symptom.

For which the Republican Party apparently has no cure.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:49 am

the 2024 election will be Haley v Newsom.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:49 am

LOL! Newsom maybe, but not Haley.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 10:50 am

Kevin, I would like that lineup. I really would.

Can you imagine if NH chose Tim Scott as VP?

Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/6/2023 @ 11:02 am

Can you imagine if NH chose Tim Scott as VP?

Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/6/2023 @ 11:02 am

Unlikely, since they are both from South Carolina.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 11:08 am

What an Army Colonel Biden Wants to Promote Had to Say About Elizabeth Warren, Confederate Statues, NFL Kneelers

Kareem P. Montague has been opinionated on Facebook since 2011, taking jabs at Republican political operative Karl Rove, posting messages about Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s first Senate campaign in Massachusetts, defending the pro football players who take a knee, and denouncing “white privilege.”

Now an Army colonel, Montague—a veteran of conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan—has been awaiting confirmation to be promoted to brigadier general since March. The promotion has been stalled along with those of about 200 others.

In February, the Defense Department adopted a policy of allowing three weeks of taxpayer-funded paid leave and reimbursement of travel expenses for enlisted women to get an abortion. Initially, Sen. Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala., sought to halt the military promotions to force the Pentagon to yield on the abortion policy.

The holds have caused more information to emerge about the would-be recipients of the promotions.

Tuberville retweeted a thread by the American Accountability Foundation, a watchdog group, about Montague’s various politicized comments and social media posts.

“The Senate needs to do our job and take a closer look at many of these nominees. These jobs are too important not to,” Tuberville posted on X, formerly known as Twitter.

In September 2017, Montague had a near 1,000-word, 10-point Facebook post defending players in the NFL who kneel rather than stand for the national anthem. “The flag and the anthem—do you remember why Moses and his people spent 40 years in the desert? Mostly, it was because they were foolish (and impatient) and they forgot that symbols are not the real thing. Worshiping a golden calf was an insult to God,” he wrote.

He later added in the post: “Protests – news flash for the ‘stop politicizing my sports’ crowd, protests are supposed to be messy. That’s the point, sometimes you have to shut down a city bus line to point out the obvious. We’d love to have a nuanced debate on CSPAN, but most of you who are blissfully ignorant of a particular issue would miss it. You’re too busy watching football.”

In point eight, he talked about so-called white privilege.

“Our country, despite its great ideals and its promise, was still founded on the backs of an entire race of people,” he wrote. “A system of de facto and de jure segregation has created a long-standing imbalance in our country. As a result, there is a general advantage to being white in this country. There’s nothing any of us needs to do about it, just acknowledge that it is a real thing.”

In another lengthy Facebook post a month earlier, he denounced Confederate statues, asserting, “It is time for us to stop revering these leaders with public building statutes, military base names, and public schools.”

Montague was a distinguished military graduate from Harvard University in 1995, according to the Defense Department. He most recently has been the chief of staff of the Army. Montague was twice deployed to Iraq, most recently in 2008-2009 as the war wound down, and twice to Afghanistan, most recently in 2015-2016. He was also deployed to Kosovo in 2001, just a few years after U.S. airstrikes.

“When we take a look at Col. Montague, you quickly discover that he’s beloved by the Army brass not because he’s a war fighter, but because he’s a social justice warrior,” Tom Jones, president of the American Accountability Foundation, told The Daily Signal. The Pentagon, he said, “needs to start over on these promotions and select men and women on merit, not on political activism.”

Montague posted on Facebook in August 2011 about being promoted to colonel.

In a September 2011 Facebook post, after his promotion, he appeared to back Elizabeth Warren, who was elected to her first term in the Senate the next year. The post highlighted a comment in which Warren said, “There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own,” and went on to explain that people owe their fortune to a collective.

“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for,” Warren said in the quote highlighted by Montague. “ … But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

But other political posts came before his promotion.

In May 2011, he ripped Rove, onetime adviser to former President George W. Bush, over Rove’s lack of knowledge of rap.

“Do you want to know why 92% of blacks vote strictly Democratic, this is why,” he wrote. “The fact that Karl Rove can’t distinguish between Common and someone the likes of Snoop or other “gangster rappers” is indicative of the belief among so many African Americans that the Republican Party just cannot relate. Words cannot express how sad/angry the arc of this ‘controversy’ made me today.”

Earlier that month, he posted, “This is hysterical,” regarding then-President Barack Obama’s remarks at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. In a follow-up post, he remarked on someone who neither he nor anyone else knew would someday be president.

“Even funnier! The Trump lines were priceless,” he wrote of comedian Seth Meyers’ jokes about Donald Trump.

In April 2011, he extolled a film about Harvey Milk, a San Francisco politician and gay rights activist, writing, “Great movie that I watched tonight. I feared it would be too preachy, but it was not. Well-made film about an interesting person, living during an interesting time. Add it to your cue [sic], you won’t regret it.”

The Defense Department did not respond to an inquiry for this article.

Biden has criticized Tuberville for holding up the military promotions, calling his actions “dangerous” to national security.

The Daily Signal previously reported on Air Force Col. Ben Jonsson, who wrote positively about critical race theory and who Biden nominated for promotion to brigadier general. It also previously reported that Tuberville had blocked the promotion of Navy Capt. Michael Donnelly, who allowed a drag queen show on the USS Ronald Reagan, a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.

The Alabama Republican is also blocking the promotions of two Air Force generals nominated by Biden: Lt. Gen.

Kevin Schneider as commander of Pacific Forces, who called for expanding “diversity, equity and inclusion” in the military, and Brig. Gen. Elizabeth Arledge, who complained about “whiteness,” to major general.

BuDuh (e7705d) — 9/6/2023 @ 11:48 am

The last paragraph should have been in blockquotes as well.

BuDuh (e7705d) — 9/6/2023 @ 11:49 am

Comedy Gold!

……….
Trump’s radio interview with Hugh Hewitt was largely dominated by the subject of how well the former president can run for office again while he faces trial for the dozens of felony charges stemming from his four indictments. As Hewitt and Trump went back and forth on whether there was any chance of dismissing the classified documents charges, the conservative radio host repeatedly asked “Did you direct anyone to move the boxes” after receiving the subpoena compelling his compliance with the Justice Department.

Trump’s answer:

I don’t talk about anything. You know why? Because I’m allowed to do whatever I want. I come under the Presidential Records Act. I’m not telling you. You know, every time I talk to you, ‘Oh, I have a breaking story!’ You don’t have any story. I come under the Presidential Records Act. I’m allowed to do everything I did!”

……….
……….Hewitt started asking him questions about his legal strategy, including the inquiry: ‘If any of these things get to trial, will you testify in your own defense?”

Hewitt: So if you have to go to trial, will you testify in your own defense?

Trump: Oh, yes, absolutely.

Hewitt: You’ll take the stand?

Trump: That, I would do. That, I look forward to, because that’s just like Russia, Russia, Russia. That’s all the fake information from Russia, Russia, Russia. Remember when the dossier came out and everyone said oh, that’s so terrible, that’s so terrible, and then it turned out to be it was a political report put out by Hillary Clinton and the DNC. They paid millions for it. They gave it to Christopher Steele. They paid millions and millions of dollars for it, and it was all fake. It was all fake.

Hewitt: Now I think that obstruction charge is going to get to trial, Mr. President.

Trump: So I look forward, I look forward to testifying. At trial, I’ll testify.

Hewitt: If you do and they ask you on the stand, did you order anyone to move boxes, how will you answer?

Trump: I’m not answering that question for you, but I’m totally covered under the law.
……….

……….

Trump’s lawyers will need to gag him and tie him to his chair to prevent from testifying. Must see TV if he does!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 11:54 am

I saw a good chunk of the hearing, and Judge McAfee was impressive. Trump and the rest of the defendants should be worried, and the prosecution needs to bring their “A” game.

In other news, the IT guy at Mar-A-Lago struck a cooperation agreement with Jack Smith. I’m wondering if he’s still employed there.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 12:01 pm

@545, Those views are left of center, but seem to be within the Overton Window for mainstream political views.

Is your objection to them having any political views? Or just ones you disagree with?

Also, nothing presented that they’re unqualified for their job.

Time123 (912463) — 9/6/2023 @ 12:20 pm

Just a reminder that war crimes are standard SOP under Putin.
Exhibit A: Russians murdered civilians without hesitation in Soledar.

Maksim Zelenov confessed to http://Gulagu.net that Russia mass-murdered civilians in Ukrainian villages near Bakhmut and Soledar during the offensive. They murdered everyone there simply because they were Ukrainians. Russian “liberation” is actually ethnic cleansing.

He’s a former Russian police officer who got into jail for murder, but Putin released him so he could join Wagner and do dirty work for Russian troops in Ukraine.

When the area had been “cleansed,” the Russian army entered. Russia celebrated massacring Ukrainians and taking Soledar. This is how Russian heroes are born.

Exhibit B: On the day SecState Blinken is visiting Kyiv, a Putin missile strikes a market, murdering 16.

Exhibit C: Life in Russian-occupied Ukraine is hellish.

Ukrainians who lived through Russian occupation or escaped from Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine tell us some repetitive stories. Some clear patterns.

1. Often people are not allowed to leave their villages. Supplies (incl. food supplies) are often cut 1/6

2. Russia doesn’t bring Russian law, but brings lawlessness. People lose their rights – even those who sympathize with Russia. Your house can be taken by someone else; your car can be confiscated; you can be abducted, nobody would investigate. 2/6

3. Lots of people who are missing. We don’t know whether they are alive or not. Family members of these people are often forced to keep silent, violence will be applied to them as well. 3/6

Etc.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 12:25 pm

Can you imagine if NH chose Tim Scott as VP?

What Rip said. I can see a more populist VP, such as Kristi Noem. Or maybe it’s not too late for Condi.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 12:50 pm

Kareem P. Montague

So what. Is he a good soldier who deserves a star? I don’t like it when Democrat presidents cull conservatives from the ranks, and I don’t think we should play that game. It’s a loser.

Two criteria:

1) Does he inspire those he commands?
2) Does he have the confidence of his superiors?

The rest of it is BS.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 12:54 pm

Trump’s lawyers will need to gag him and tie him to his chair to prevent from testifying. Must see TV if he does!

Sadly, the federal trials will be held in secret, or nearly so.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 12:56 pm

In other news, the IT guy at Mar-A-Lago struck a cooperation agreement with Jack Smith. I’m wondering if he’s still employed there.

I wonder, when this is all over, if he can sue Trump for the destruction of his career.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 12:57 pm

Russia mass-murdered civilians in Ukrainian villages near Bakhmut and Soledar during the offensive. They murdered everyone there simply because they were Ukrainians. Russian “liberation” is actually ethnic cleansing.

That was Yevgeny Progozhin’s Wagner Group. It didn’t happen in other places like that. Murders, yes, but not of everyone.

The second in command of the Wagner Group was jealous of the Nazis. He was killed too by Putin in that plane crash.

It was named the Wagner Group because of Richard Wagner, who was an icon of the Nazis.

Exhibit B and C are standard operating procedure for Russia.

Azerbaijan isn’t too good either.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/asia/nagorno-karabakh-armenians-genocide-intl-hnk/index.html

This is what can be called genocide in the second degree. Starving them out – trying to force the Armenians in a piece of territory included in the international borders of Azerbaijan to leave.

Azerbaijan is allied with Russia.

In the meantime, Prigozhin thought he was useful to Putin in maintaining a brutal commercial empire in Africa, but Putin decided he could do without him.

Z

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:04 pm

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 11:54 am

Trump’s lawyers will need to gag him and tie him to his chair to prevent from testifying. Must see TV if he does!

What they can’t do is be complicit in him lying under oath

Lawyers do that, but I don’t think any with a career will want to.

(They can lie in statements to the jury, which are not evidence)

If Trump wants to say that yes, he told people to move the boxes, but he had a right to because the subpoena was improper or something, they’ll advise against it but not withdraw from the case.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:12 pm

545.

“The flag and the anthem—do you remember why Moses and his people spent 40 years in the desert? Mostly, it was because they were foolish (and impatient) and they forgot that symbols are not the real thing. Worshiping a golden calf was an insult to God,” he wrote.

He should study his Bible more. It was not the Golden Calf.

It was because ten of the twelve spies that Moses sent into Cannan (in an effort to relieve their reluctance) lied about the prospects of conquering Canaan, and scared the children of Israel into not wanting to go there – even though it was an illogical argument, given what they had seen in Egypt. They surprised Moses, who had expected them maybe to lie about the fertility of the land, and sent Joshua and Caleb along with them to prevent that but didn’t think they would claim that they would be defeated. And as for the fertility of the land, they actually exaggerated it.

At first they used bad arguments, but then they began outright lying, claiming that the inhabitants were as tall compared to them as they were to grasshoppers. Caleb could not counter that. They claimed the sons of Anak (known to be tall) were from the Nefilim, (means fallen) because but the Nefilim were from before the flood.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:23 pm

That was Yevgeny Progozhin’s Wagner Group.

Irrelevant. Prigozhin was not a free agent. He was under Putin’s command.
Wagner gave Putin a degree of separation and some phony deniability, but they’re basically still a military division under the Russian regime.

Azerbaijan is allied with Russia.

No, they’re not, Turkey is.
The Turks were responsible for the Armenian genocide, which could explain why the Armenians joined Putin’s pale imitation of NATO. That, and they’re a post-Soviet state. With Putin preoccupied with his criminal invasion to the northwest, Armenia is getting basically no help from this alliance.

In other news, the gun charge on Hunter Biden is back on the table, according to the Special Counsel’s grand jury.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:36 pm

Hunter Biden to Be Indicted This Month, Special Counsel Says

WASHINGTON—Special Counsel David Weiss said Wednesday he would seek an indictment of Hunter Biden by Sept. 29, after a plea deal the president’s son had reached on tax charges fell apart over the summer.

Weiss’s statement, issued in an update to the federal court in Delaware, provided confirmation that prosecutors are moving ahead with a criminal case against the younger Biden, after his legal team and the government have traded blame in recent weeks over the implosion of two previously negotiated agreements that would have resolved a long-running investigation into Hunter Biden’s tax and business dealings.

I guess we get an early test of Weiss’s willingness to throw the book. Later, will Joe pardon him before the election? (No, he’ll wait until after).

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:44 pm

Tuberville is the fault of democrats who let him get away with it. Stop allowing one senator to put a hold on. Biden the corporate stooge is doing nothing. Schumer another corporate stooge. AOC would make a better senator from NY.

asset (ef9f9d) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:49 pm

Busy day today.
A Reagan-appointed judge ordered Gov. Abbott to remove the barriers in the Rio Grande, and was enjoined from adding new barriers.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:51 pm

Special Counsel David Weiss to Indict Hunter Biden:

David Weiss, the newly-appointed special counsel tapped to prosecute President Biden’s son Hunter in the wake of a failed plea agreement, filed court papers Wednesday saying he intends to seek an indictment in the case before the end of the month.

Weiss’s three-page filing to the federal court in Delaware suggests the indictment will be on a gun charge. …….

The timing laid out by Weiss for the gun charge indictment is not particularly surprising, given that legal experts believe the statute of limitations on that alleged crime was due to expire in mid-October……..
……….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:52 pm

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/5/2023 @ 4:07 pm

Trump may have not known the precise details (except possibly through the Secret Service or Roger Stone),

I think he didn’t get the message from the ASecret Service, but Mark Meadows did.

but he certainly saw the insurrection as politically useful.

I don’t think so.

While it was going on, he tried to make lemonade out of lemons, not very successfully. It didn’t work as an argument with Kevin McCarthy.

The Secret Service conveniently deleted two days’ worth of text messages around January 6th, which may have included communications with the Proud Boys; the SS was in direct communication with the Oath Keepers.

It was? (I thought the Secret Service, if anything, had someone high up who was for Biden. Remember, they intervened in October 2018 to retrieve Hunter Biden’s gun.)

If Trump was in contact, it would have been through one of the people involved in the “Stop the Steal” campaign.

Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys was in contact with someone in the Metropolitan (Washington, D.C.) police, according to prosecutors.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/05/us/politics/enrique-tarrio-proud-boys-sentenced.html

Prosecutors claimed that Mr. Tarrio knew in advance that he was going to be taken into custody through a contact in the Washington police force and “strategically calculated his arrest as a means to inspire a reaction by his followers.” On Jan. 6, Mr. Tarrio was watching events unfold from a distance and swapping texts with some of his subordinates as the pro-Trump mob — with the Proud Boys in the lead — overran the Capitol.

That NYT article links to this other one:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/us/politics/dc-police-shane-lamond-proud-boys.html

Prosecutors say that the officer, Lt. Shane Lamond, 47, told Mr. Tarrio that he would not face hate crime charges after a group of Proud Boys under his command burned a Black Lives Matter banner at a historic Black church in Washington after a pro-Trump rally in the city in December 2020. The episode took place weeks before the far-right group played a central role in the Capitol attack on Jan. 6, 2021.

Mr. Lamond, who worked as an intelligence expert for the Metropolitan Police Department, was suspended from his job as an investigation into his ties to Mr. Tarrio moved forward. He also gave Mr. Tarrio advance notice that he would be arrested in connection with the banner-burning episode in early January 2021 as he returned to Washington for the events of Jan. 6.

There was also a person in an important position in the Capitol Police, because their intelligence assessment was changed after January 3, to say that not even the rally on the Ellipse was likely!

Something the Democrats (and, for that matter, the Re
Republicans) have shown no deep interest in exploring.

So Trump had ample opportunity to find out what was planned.

Well, Mark Meadows and others did – and a few days before. But Giuliani did not know. (all this per Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony before the Jan 6 committee.)

Trump had some opportunity to learn, but that he did is, in your words, pure speculation. (and doesn’t jibe with what he did in planning out a 12 hour or more delay by Parliamentary means and an intention to go to the Capitol himself.)

Had Trump wanted to delay things further by a riot, it would have made more sense to schedule the riot for past midnight, not right at the start of the proceedings.

No, Trump was roped into somebody else’s conspiracy. And maybe Kenneth Chesebro, but he knew some more and later realized how bad it could get.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:02 pm

Trump Civil Litigation Watch II:

A New York judge on Wednesday rejected Donald Trump’s request to delay his sweeping civil fraud trial, calling the former president’s request “completely without merit.”

One day earlier, attorneys for Trump, his two adult sons and his businesses had asked the judge to stay the case until three weeks after he has ruled on competing motions for summary judgement. The trial is currently scheduled to begin Oct. 2.
……….
“Decline to sign,” (New York Supreme Court Judge Arthur Engoron) wrote in a brief, handwritten note at the bottom of Trump’s proposed order for a stay. “Defendants’ arguments are completely without merit.”
………
Engoron’s rebuke came one day after (Attorney General Letitia James) asked the judge to sanction Trump and others in the case for repeatedly putting forward the same failed legal arguments.
…………

This could possibly be most embarrassing trial for Trump, as it will reveal mountains of financial documents that could hit his defining characteristic: his wealth.

Ouch!

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:06 pm

Post 564 should have been in blockquotes, except for the title and italicized comment.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:07 pm

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:51 pm

A Reagan-appointed judge ordered Gov. Abbott to remove the barriers in the Rio Grande, and was enjoined from adding new barriers.

And this is what it did:

https://www.wsj.com/world/americas/texas-floating-border-wall-fails-to-deter-migrants-75ebfcae

When it installed a chain of giant bright orange buoys on the Rio Grande earlier this summer, Texas hoped that its new “floating border wall” would slow the number of migrants using this shallow point of the river to wade into the U.S.

Instead, asylum seekers have simply been skirting the 1,000-foot barrier.

This stretch of the river, abutting Eagle Pass, Texas, has for the past few years been one of the most popular crossing spots for migrant families because Piedras Negras, the Mexican city across the border, is relatively safe. The water is also shallow enough to avoid the river’s most deadly currents. Blocking it off hasn’t deterred migrants, but it has redirected them to more dangerous points on the river….

…Under what it calls Operation Lone Star, Texas has been arresting migrants crossing the Rio Grande on trespassing charges, subjecting them to weeks or months of jail time before turning them over to the Border Patrol. Despite stepped-up law enforcement at Eagle Pass, the area saw the largest increases in illegal crossings in the past two years, according to a review by The Wall Street Journal….

….Late last month, a dozen migrants waded past the barrier and reached the U.S. bank to the unwelcoming sight of razor wire and metal fences also installed to discourage crossings. They looked for gaps, with some getting injured as they struggled through any openings, only for U.S. authorities to detain them, in many cases.

“The barrier complicates things, but it won’t stop a determined migrant,” said Erick Villalobos, a Venezuelan automotive engineer in Piedras Negras who attempted to cross the river at another point before. He decided to back off before reaching the U.S. bank after exhausting himself helping another migrant who nearly drowned.

Valeria Wheeler, the executive director of Mission: Border Hope, the lone migrant shelter in Eagle Pass, said she hasn’t noticed a drop in illegal crossings since Texas installed the barrier, but has seen many more migrants with injuries who took riskier routes across the river. More migrants are being dropped off at her shelter by the Border Patrol with sprained ankles, scrapes or other injuries. And the shelter has been receiving more migrants from a local hospital where they had surgery on their arms or legs, she said, after having navigated the lines of razor wire and fencing.

Bottom line: It reduces the number of border crossers somewhat, at the price of people getting injured and even treated in a hospital and might cause some deaths.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:11 pm

Azerbaijan is allied with Russia.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 1:36 pm

No, they’re not, Turkey is.

Yes, I haven’t been following this;

I think the alliances are complex. After all Turkey is allied against Russia. It might be that some countries are allied against themselves

I saw this:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/russia-azerbaijan-ties-worry-united-states

Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine has left it with few friends, but Azerbaijan is an important exception. In fact, Moscow and Baku are effectively allies now. Just two days before the February 2022 invasion, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev signed a wide-ranging political-military agreement, following which Aliyev declared that the pact “brings our relations to the level of an alliance.” A few months later, Azerbaijan signed an intelligence-sharing agreement with Russia.

Azerbaijani or Azeri is a similar language to that of Turkish and therefore Erdogan thinks he has the makings of an alliance

https://dayan.org/content/azerbaijan-turkiye-military-relations-shadow-negotiations-armenia

One of the most important dimensions of Türkiye–Azerbaijan relations is the two countries’ military relationship. Over the course of 30 years, many agreements and protocols have been signed between the two countries, which have contributed to the development of their military relations. The founding principle of this military relationship was to meet the officer training needs of the Azerbaijani army. In subsequent years, this cooperation expanded to include joint military exercises and cooperation in the defense sector. The pinnacle of military cooperation between the two countries was the Shusha Declaration on allied relations signed on June 15, 2021.

This cooperation supported the existence of a strong Azerbaijani army that had a decisive impact not only on the outcome of the Second Nagorno-Karabakh War (hereafter: “Second Karabakh War”), but also on the diplomatic negotiations that continued thereafter. Even after the Second Karabakh War, effective measures were taken against Armenia’s ongoing provocations. Therefore, achievements in the military field and the shift in the balance of power also affected the outcome of diplomatic negotiations.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:24 pm

The Turks were responsible for the Armenian genocide,

This was the second massacre, during World War I, but the Turkish government would never have done it without Germany, (and the major perpetrators took refuge in Germany after the war) and the German army played a role, and that’s what Hitler was talking about when he told German officers that their honor would be affected if they took part in the murder of the Jews “Who now remembers the massacre of the Armenians?”

The story of that quote got considerably distorted, but it would have been said in 1941, between May and September, if the quote is accurate, and not in a speech in 1939.

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:34 pm

RIP Marilyn Lovell (93); wife of astronaut Jim Lovell (95), commander of Apollo 13. When her husband was part of the Apollo 8 crew, he named a triangle-shaped mountain on the lunar surface Mount Marilyn, officially recognized by the International Astronomical Union in 2017. Survivors include her husband of 71 years, along with four children; 11 grandchildren; and seven great-grandchildren.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:35 pm

Talking about prosecuting a former president in a non-banana republic, there’s a recent precedent.

France’s president from 2007 to 2012, Nicolas Sarkozy has been prosecuted and convicted and sentenced on several counts, (I’m not sure if the sentencing reached several convictions) but apparently, all of them, from my limited knowledge , involve campaign finance violations.

Both in 2007 and in 2012. The 2007 allegations involve getting help from Libya’s Quaddafi.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/05/17/french-court-upholds-three-year-sentence-for-ex-president-sarkozy_6026961_7.html#:~:text=In%20March%202021%20he%20was,that%20was%20discovered%20through%20wiretapping.

A French court of appeals on Wednesday, May 17, upheld a prison sentence of three years, including two suspended, against former president Nicolas Sarkozy for corruption and influence peddling. The court maintained he should serve a one-year detention sentence at home with an electronic bracelet and banned him from public office and from voting for three years over his attempts to secure favors from a judge in a case uncovered by wiretapping.

The 68-year-old left the courtroom without making any comment, but his lawyer said they would be appealing the decision with the Court of Cassation, France’s highest appeals court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/world/europe/france-sarkozy-trial-guilty.html

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:44 pm

Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/6/2023 @ 2:44 pm

You can add Israel (multiple times), South Korea (multiple times), Brazil (multiple times), Japan (multiple times), Italy (multiple times), Argentina (multiple times), Iceland, Lithuania, Latvia, Taiwan, Philippines, Romania, and Portugal, to name a few.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/6/2023 @ 3:03 pm

The Navarro contempt trial is moving quickly, and most likely moving quickly to a conviction.
The man is an obnoxious little asswipe, but his personal heckler might be his match. If there’s a German or Japanese or Greek word for “it’s funny but it’s rude and she probably shouldn’t do it but the guy is a jackass”, I’d like to know what that word is.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 3:04 pm

Here’s another reason why Ramaswamy ain’t ready for primetime, refusing to answer a simple direct question, which is sort of how DeSantis gacked it in the debate.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/6/2023 @ 3:34 pm

You can add Israel (multiple times), South Korea (multiple times), Brazil (multiple times), Japan (multiple times), Italy (multiple times), Argentina (multiple times), Iceland, Lithuania, Latvia, Taiwan, Philippines, Romania, and Portugal, to name a few.

IMO there’s something wrong with Israel, South Korea, Brazil, Japan, Italy, and Argentina, that they keep electing crooks. We’re in jeopardy of being added to the list.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/6/2023 @ 4:23 pm

If there’s a German or Japanese or Greek word for “it’s funny but it’s rude and she probably shouldn’t do it but the guy is a jackass”, I’d like to know what that word is.

It’s cute and funny for a few minutes. After that, not letting him finish a sentence is obnoxious and thuggish. I resent her for making me sympathize with Navarro.

lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/6/2023 @ 4:24 pm

What a tragic story about a institution that was supposed to be a force of good. https://apple.news/AuQltm_B_RuemM2ND5VjpGg

The BSA was a positive influence in my life, but the way they treated ppl who were abused while in their car is horrific.

Time123 (059f66) — 9/6/2023 @ 4:49 pm

For Rip:

Biden favorable/Unfavorable: 35-56
Trump favorable/Unfavorable: 35-58

Haley-Biden election: 49-43 Haley

Chris Christie, Mike Pence and Tim Scott also beat Biden, each by 2%.
DeSantis ties, Videk loses.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23940784-cnn-poll

Haley cross-tabs on page 46.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/7/2023 @ 8:24 am

I hope this is true…

The Russian army will lose Tokmak, and behind it the entire south, there will be no battle for the beaches of Azov. Interview with Major Hetman

The Russian occupation troops are showing signs of preparation for “evacuation” from Tokmak – they are stealing and taking away everything they can. Indeed, the Defense Forces of Ukraine approached this settlement very close, at a distance of less than 20 kilometers. But the main thing for the enemy is not keeping certain cities or villages of Ukraine from being controlled, but the logistical route, the railway, which passes through Tokmak, then to Dzhankoy, and feeds the Crimean and southern groups of the occupier’s army

Having lost this railway branch, the enemy will actually lose the main artery of his “dry corridor” to the Crimea, the main way of supplying everything necessary for his southern group. Cutting this railway line is only a matter of time.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/7/2023 @ 10:10 am

I hope this is not true…

It is illegal to grow Alfalfa in Saudi Arabia yet a Saudi state-controlled Fondomonte consumes gallons of water from Arizona aquifers to feed their race horses/cows, FOR FREE!

You heard it, FOR FREE. Millions and Millions of Gallons. FOR FREE.

The Southwest is grappling with a prolonged megadrought, with Arizona experiencing a severe water crisis. The situation is exacerbated by foreign-owned mega-farms, such as Fondomonte, owned by a major dairy company in Saudi Arabia.

These farms cultivate alfalfa in the U.S. to export to the Middle East for cattle feed, even though alfalfa cultivation is banned in Saudi Arabia due to its high water usage.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/7/2023 @ 10:16 am

SBA program upended in wake of Supreme Court affirmative action ruling

Thousands of Black, Latino and other minority business owners are scrambling to prove that their race puts them at a “social disadvantage” after a federal judge declared a key provision of a popular Small Business Administration (SBA) program unconstitutional, extending the U.S. Supreme Court’s recent retreat from affirmative action.

The SBA’s 8(a) Business Development program was meant to open a pipeline to billions in government contracting dollars for historically disadvantaged groups. But in July, a federal judge in Tennessee struck down a provision of the program that equated race with social disadvantage.

The decision — one of the first to affect the private sector in the wake of the Supreme Court’s June decision upending race-conscious college admissions — throws into disarray an SBA program that has served minority-owned small businesses for about five decades. Legal experts said it could signal trouble for other programs meant to help underrepresented groups win federal contracts, including veterans and women.

Under the new guidelines, being Black, Hispanic, Asian or Native American is no longer enough to automatically qualify as socially disadvantaged — a key step in making it into the program. Instead, in a mass email distributed Aug. 22 by SBA officials, business owners were instructed to submit an essay demonstrating that race had hindered their success.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/7/2023 @ 10:45 am

@14: The ATF begs to differ

OKLAHOMA CITY — The Western District of Oklahoma is aggressively seeking to keep firearms out of the wrong hands by pursuing those who lie in connection with gun purchases. Several recent cases charged in federal court highlight these efforts.

Case histories follow.

But of course this doesn’t happen everywhere.

Lying on the form is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. For being a user of unlawful drugs in possession of a firearm, the punishment is up to five years. The odds of being charged for lying on the form are virtually nonexistent. In the 2019 fiscal year, when Hunter Biden purchased his gun, federal prosecutors received 478 referrals for lying on Form 4473 — and filed just 298 cases. The numbers were roughly similar for fiscal 2020. At issue is when Biden answered “no” on the question that asks about unlawful drug use and addiction when purchasing a gun. Biden had been discharged five years earlier from the Navy Reserve for drug use and based on his 2021 memoir, he was actively using crack cocaine in the year he bought the gun. The data do not show how many people might have been prosecuted for falsely answering the question about active drug use.

A 1990 Justice Department study noted how difficult it was to bring cases against people who falsely answer questions on the form, especially because there is no paper trail for drug abusers like there is for felons.

Still, the part I bolded above explains why. In Biden’s case there IS not only a paper trail, but his own admissions in print, so it would seem to fall into the easily-proven group most likely to be prosecuted. Plus the tax cheating and foreign agent stuff.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/7/2023 @ 11:00 am

Ooops, not bolded, but you get the idea.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/7/2023 @ 11:00 am

Wrong thread. Today is extra dyslexic.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/7/2023 @ 11:01 am

The truth will set you free, but sometimes it’ll smack you on the head.

BTW, no surprise that Navarro was found guilty.

Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/7/2023 @ 2:18 pm

Waiting for that Trump pardon…….

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/7/2023 @ 2:21 pm

Indeed, stand strong Tuberville:
https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/09/07/stand-strong-senator-tuberville-n576241

…
This is how things work in Washington: Tuberville is demanding a debate and an actual democratic vote on a radical change in policy, and everybody else in Washington screams ‘THAT IS NOW HOW WE DO THINGS YOU FASCIST!”

If this really is a matter of national security, Chuck Schumer could bring the officers up for a vote, or Biden could change the policy back to what it has been for decades. Instead, Schumer calls holding a vote a “burden” to the Democrats.

Instead, they want to have their cake and eat it too. They get to be the radicals while making it seem like Tuberville is a communist. And the MSM pushes the narrative.

Tuberville is right. They are wrong. Thank God somebody has the guts to stand up for principle.

whembly (5f7596) — 9/7/2023 @ 2:30 pm

These farms cultivate alfalfa in the U.S. to export to the Middle East for cattle feed, even though alfalfa cultivation is banned in Saudi Arabia due to its high water usage.

Well, we ban oil drilling…

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/7/2023 @ 3:27 pm

Having lost this railway branch, the enemy will actually lose the main artery of his “dry corridor” to the Crimea, the main way of supplying everything necessary for his southern group. Cutting this railway line is only a matter of time.

Then of course, missile after missile will rain down on that bridge.

Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/7/2023 @ 3:34 pm

“Tuberville is right. They are wrong. Thank God somebody has the guts to stand up for principle.”

The bigger issue is retention. How many young women do you discourage from joining the military or discourage from re-enlisting because some duty locations do not have access to abortion? Add to that the negative impact on morale due to having promotions and relocations delayed. The principle is that we live in a pluralistic society with a volunteer military where soldiers have to go where they are told. Maybe listen to those volunteers. At a time when every service branch is struggling to meet its recruiting goals, is it really the time to compel a position that does not have clear support?

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/8/2023 @ 5:57 am

@589

At a time when every service branch is struggling to meet its recruiting goals, is it really the time to compel a position that does not have clear support?

AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/8/2023 @ 5:57 am

Then why is this question only directed to just Tuberville?

It’s just as applicable to Democrats/Biden administration as it is with Tuberville.

whembly (5f7596) — 9/8/2023 @ 6:14 am

Then why is this question only directed to just Tuberville?

It’s just as applicable to Democrats/Biden administration as it is with Tuberville.

whembly (5f7596) — 9/8/2023 @ 6:14 am

Because then he couldn’t frame it from a leftist angle where it’s always Republicans who are to blame. If they would just let leftists do what they want all would be fine.

It’s not about Biden trashing the Hyde Amendment. It’s not about leftist social engineering taking over the military. It’s not about creating 2 sets of standards for men and “birthing people.” It’s just about framing Republicans as bad to depress Republican turnout and goose leftist turnout.

If Schumer and the left really felt Tuberville was wrong all they have to do is actually have a debate and vote on the promotions. But they don’t want that because that would make people aware of the lies they are pushing. So instead, it’s just lies and leftist propaganda over and over again.

NJRob (cada8f) — 9/8/2023 @ 8:01 am

9/1/2023

Weekend Open Thread

591 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

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