Patterico's Pontifications

8/8/2023

More of the Republican Party’s ‘New Normal’

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:13 am



[guest post by Dana]

Republican voters are the problem:

Sycophant is an ugly word, but it isn’t ugly enough for Republicans in 2024. The judgment on Trump is, necessarily, a judgment on the Republican Party as a whole, on those who adhere to it, those who make excuses for it, those who cannot bring themselves to call it what it is…

I do not know how any one of these trials is going to turn out. But, at a certain level, I don’t need to. And neither do you.

That is because the uncontested facts of the case—of the cases—are enough to disqualify Donald Trump from any position of trust. We all know this. Ted Cruz knows it, Sean Hannity knows it, Rudy Giuliani, in his rare lucid moments, knows it. There isn’t any dispute about whether the affair with the pornographic performer happened or whether money changed hands to facilitate its conclusion more conveniently; there isn’t any question about whether Trump had piles of classified documents sitting beneath the gilt chandelier of the Mar-a-Lago toilet; there isn’t any question about the fact that Trump did, in fact, try to nullify the 2020 election and unconstitutionally hold on to power. These uncontested facts ought to be understood as dispositive. The fact that they have not disqualified Donald Trump in the hearts and minds of Republican voters is not a judgment on Trump—it is a judgment on Republican voters.

According to recent polling, Republicans, not just MAGA-identified Republicans, remain convinced that this is just another effort by a “weaponized” DOJ to stop Trump’s campaign (thus stopping him from becoming the nominee, and perhaps the next president):

Despite Trump facing one indictment after another, and one investigation after another, “40 million right-wing evangelical fingers going into 40 million right-wing evangelical ears and 20 million grimly pious mouths chanting, “Nah! Nah! I can’t hear you!””

Relatedly, any number of contenders for the 2024 nomination remain reluctant to name Trump:

Over the course of two hours, seven GOP hopefuls took their turn on stage in front of about 800 party activists in the leadoff caucus state, all invited to speak at Iowa Rep. Ashley Hinson’s fundraising barbecue at a Cedar Rapids racetrack.

But in their pitches to challenge Trump for the 2024 nomination, it was as if his indictment Tuesday on federal charges accusing him of working to overturn the 2020 election results had never happened, even from the candidate who has suggested the former president quit the race.

Walking the tightrope of self-protection rather than separating oneself from Trump by taking every opportunity to name check the former president for attempting to overturn a legitimate election and reminding voters of his scorn for the Rule of Law may be a beneficial political strategy at work (see the polling), but it simultaneously reveals that fear (of Trump) is controlling, er, influencing how most of the candidates campaign. Not a good look for anyone who, if elected, will likely be facing down the likes of the barbaric Putin or Xi. Why should voters have any confidence in their ability to lead?

–Dana

171 Responses to “More of the Republican Party’s ‘New Normal’”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4020dd)

  2. So, form a new party or lump it.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  3. I submit that Democrats who say there is no politics involved (“Upholding the Rule of Law” (or “Democracy”)), and Republicans who say it’s all politics are both talking bullsh1t.

    Neither side’s partisans gives 2 craps about the Rule of Law when it doesn’t suit them, and both sides would stuff ballot boxes if they thought they could get away with it.

    Show me a partisan Democrat who says things like “Sure, I don’t like the idea of deporting people, but it’s the Law and we can’t just pick and choose” and I’ll eat my hat.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  4. When did the Rule of Law die? Was it the 55MPH speed limit? The Draft? The War on Drugs? Clinton’s perjury? Hard to say.

    But I ask you: What has Joe Biden done, by example, to strengthen the Rule of Law? Has he don anything to weaken it?

    It’s fine to point at Trump, as if he was the cause of all of this, but he’s just a pustulent symptom and the reactions of the partisans show nothing but special pleading.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  5. Williamson pretty much covered it.
    Going by the RCP average, Trump is at 53.7%, which is ludicrous.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  6. I wonder if there’s a large GOP voters who’s in my position.

    That is… “F” the Democrats.

    In short, isn’t so much GOP voters are WANTING and CHEERING for Trump, it’s that they look at what Democrats has become, and what their willing to do… they’re responding with #NeverDemocrats.

    whembly (5f7596)

  7. #6

    You will find a hard 20% of GOP voters who refuse to vote Trump in the general election. That’s not enough to move primaries, but it is enough to ensure he loses in the general. I am afraid the GOP needs to learn that lesson hard.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  8. @7

    #6

    You will find a hard 20% of GOP voters who refuse to vote Trump in the general election. That’s not enough to move primaries, but it is enough to ensure he loses in the general. I am afraid the GOP needs to learn that lesson hard.

    Appalled (03f53c) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:20 pm

    That’s why I’m trying like hell to people to support someone like DeSantis (or any other rising contender).

    whembly (5f7596)

  9. And on the other hand, you have people like me who have always voted for multiple parties but who are now utterly unwilling to vote for a party whose *leaders* are willing to turn the country over to someone who will use the apparatus of state as an appanage of his personal family empire.

    Trump will sell out the American interest to anyone who soothes his ego or makes him money, and the Republican electorate is *happy* to have him do it as long as it makes liberals angry.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  10. Going by the RCP average, Trump is at 53.7%, which is ludicrous.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 12:13 pm

    Better than the Morning Consult results, which has Trump polling at 59%, 43 points ahead of DeSantis (who has just fired his campaign manager). Some 80% of Republicans have a favorable view of Trump.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  11. Trump Turned the GOP Into the Party of Wishful Thinking

    For a political class that likes to think of itself as a hardened cadre of cold-eyed realists, the leadership of the Republican Party has indulged in comically wishful thinking about the most consequential figure in recent political history.
    ……….
    …….Some believed, or hoped, that somehow the office would become him, that the mystical mingling of the man and the presidency would elevate the former rather than debase the latter. How did that work out?

    Some allowed the wish to father the thought that by working with and for him, they could restrain his flammable impulses. The long list of short-lived ex-Trump cabinet officers is eloquent testimony to the fancifulness of that idea.
    ………
    But when he violated his oath of office after the 2020 election by attempting to overthrow the constitutional order, Republicans faced their worst choice yet between fact- and faith-based decision making: Bite the bullet and banish him from office, or keep wishing, harder than ever.

    It wasn’t really a contest. ……..

    So they have spent 2½ years crossing their fingers and gripping their talismans, despite a solid and immovable wall of evidence that Mr. Trump was going to run again and was a heavy favorite for his party’s nomination. With one or two exceptions, his dozen or so Republican opponents continue to hope for a miracle rather than to do the hard work of trying to engineer one.

    The wish-inspired decision making was, as it always is, a substitute for honest, difficult decision making. ……..

    Mr. Trump’s latest indictment last week, on charges relating to his attempt to overturn the 2020 election, signals that the long era of wishful thinking in the Republican Party leadership’s relationship with Mr. Trump must come to an end.

    Not that everyone has recognized it………They’re telling themselves that some new revelations at trial or even the possibility of a prison sentence will persuade enough Republican primary voters to withdraw their support and that this chalice will pass their lips. Their wishes might finally come true, but I doubt it.

    The larger problem the latest charges represent isn’t simply that they probably cement Mr. Trump’s standing in the primary. It is that they present Republicans with a decision that has dramatic consequences for the rule of law.

    But after this Republicans must understand there is no turning back in the war between Mr. Trump and the Democrats on the battlefield of so-called justice—one he will prosecute with gusto if he is elected. ………Republican leaders should stop pretending they don’t know the consequences and decide whether they want to follow this perilous path.
    ###########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. whembly, as long as Trump is the frontrunner for the GOP, f-ck both parties.
    I’m more than ready for my third presidential protest vote in a row.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  13. That is because the uncontested facts of the case—of the cases—are enough to disqualify Donald Trump from any position of trust

    Yes, but the thing is, most or all of that is not a crime.

    Keeping and hiding historic documents is a crime (per Gail Collins, the hiding of official documents and then the hiding – or rather it’s actually the attempted hiding – of the the evidence that he hid official documents is) but it is not a disqualification. It’s a weakness. A person could be forgiven for that.

    Making a serious attempt to wreck the election system and stay in office after he’s been voted out, as Gail Collins puts it just can’t be overlooked but it isn’t necessarily a criminal offense, although it may have crossed over in a few places (notably attempting to get the Justice Department to issue a false statement that it had found significant fraud in the election – but that was aborted when the top people there threatened to resign.)

    Then there’s the deprivation of the right to vote – newly brought up in the indictment – but that also took place in the Election of 1876 and I don’t think any historian has suggested that members of the Republican Party deserved simple criminal prosecution for what they did..

    This is besides the deprivation of the right of African Americans to vote by Democrats in the south. The Democrats tried intimidation and the Republicans drove the Freedmen en masse to the polls. The ballot was not secret then.

    Why should voters have any confidence in their ability to lead?

    They cant lead.

    Now the first thing they should suggest is that the nomination NOT go the person with the plurality of the delegates.

    Nobody should have been scared off of leading a Stop-McGovern movement; a stop-Carter movement; a stop-Clinton movement and a stop-Trump movement within their party. These are perfectly legitimate — and necessary – things. And if it means picking a compromise candidate who did not run in the primaries – that’s good.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  14. 12. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:22 pm

    whembly, as long as Trump is the frontrunner for the GOP, f-ck both parties.
    I’m more than ready for my third presidential protest vote in a row.

    The third party candidate is also likely to be no good, as is the 4th, 5th and 6th party candidate,

    You’ve really got to draft someone as the alternative candidate. And outmaneuver campaign finance laws.

    One idea I had was perhaps No Labels running different candidates for president in different states so that their candidate is likely to come in no worse than second in many states (there will be competition to see which one makes it into the House – the House picks from the top three) but the same candidate for vice president in all states (the Senate only gets to pick from the top two for Vice president)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  15. whembly (5f7596) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:31 pm

    support someone like DeSantis (or any other rising contender).

    Not DeSantis.

    HE will also lose (because of character issues)

    No – you need an open Stop-Trump movement

    Now the thing is Republican Party rules permit many winner-take-all states.

    There has to be a movement to change the rules.

    Now Chris Christie, who attacks Trump, has the highest unfavorable rating among Republicans of all candidates. He’s not intelligent enough, really.

    Sammy Finkelman (d007a3)

  16. I posted this at The Dispatch:

    There are two ways to deal with the voters hoodwinked by Trump. Placate them, or lead them to a better place. For far too long, DeSantis and Pence have been doing the former.

    Real leaders build a following; they don’t chase it.

    I could have added Haley, Scott, and others, but the article was about DeSantis and Pence.

    As someone responded to me, Lincoln didn’t put his finger to the wind, and decide to roll with slavery.

    norcal (e38b9c)

  17. And on the other hand, you have people like me who have always voted for multiple parties but who are now utterly unwilling to vote for a party whose *leaders* are willing to turn the country over to someone who will use the apparatus of state as an appanage of his personal family empire.

    Trump will sell out the American interest to anyone who soothes his ego or makes him money, and the Republican electorate is *happy* to have him do it as long as it makes liberals angry.

    I don’t disagree at all, aphrael. But if you took your second paragraph quoted above and swapped out “Clinton” or “Biden” for “Trump,” “Democrat” for “Republican,” and “conservatives” for “liberals” then I would agree every bit as strongly.

    If we are facing a Trump vs. Biden rematch then nobody of goodwill who claims to love this country and revere the Constitution should vote for either candidate. It’s as simple as that.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  18. If we are facing a Trump vs. Biden rematch then nobody of goodwill who claims to love this country and revere the Constitution should vote for either candidate.

    My intention.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  19. Making a serious attempt to wreck the election system and stay in office after he’s been voted out, as Gail Collins puts it just can’t be overlooked but it isn’t necessarily a criminal offense, although it may have crossed over in a few places (notably attempting to get the Justice Department to issue a false statement that it had found significant fraud in the election – but that was aborted when the top people there threatened to resign.)

    Don’t forget the fake elector scheme.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  20. support someone like DeSantis (or any other rising contender).

    LOL! DeSantis is not a rising contender.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  21. If we are facing a Trump vs. Biden rematch then nobody of goodwill who claims to love this country and revere the Constitution should vote for either candidate.

    Which i why the No Labels thing is important, and why the Democrats are so fearful. They want it to be Trump or the Democrat. A third choice does not help them. Especially if it’s a viable third choice.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  22. If Trump and his gang had actually managed to pull this coup off, it would not have lasted long. The Supreme Court would have smacked them down so hard it’s funny, and they would ALL be facing treason trials. Actually overthrowing the government IS treason.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  23. The pollsters are asking the wrong questions, as usual. The right questions to ask are:

    1. Do you generally agree with the policies that President Trump pursued while in office?

    2. Would you consider another candidate who pursued most of the same policies?

    3. Is Donald Trump the best candidate to lead the GOP to victory?

    4. Would you rather win in November, or be right?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  24. Those questions are good for a push poll by a candidate.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  25. aphrael,

    to be fair, would you actually vote for a totally honest and forthright Republican who promised to continue Trump’s policies regarding immigration and trade?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  26. Actually overthrowing the government IS treason.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:58 pm

    No it’s not. Sedition is.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  27. If we are facing a Trump vs. Biden rematch then nobody of goodwill who claims to love this country and revere the Constitution should vote for either candidate.

    It would be the third time I’ve done that. I’d rather have a positive choice.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  28. The third party candidate is also likely to be no good, as is the 4th, 5th and 6th party candidate,

    I didn’t say say 3rd party, Sammy, I said protest vote. I voted for Larry Hogan, a Republican, in 2020, because the major political parties gave us the choice between Giant D0uche and Turd Sandwich. All that needs to happen is for Trump to GTFO out of my party and chances are excellent that I’ll vote for the GOP nominee.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  29. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:58 pm

    If Trump and his gang had actually managed to pull this coup off

    They couldn’t do it. They didn’t have the votes. Anywhere.

    There weren’t enough Republicans to do it, and and they had not corrupted/persuaded enough of the Republican Party in any case. Some of whom took their oaths to support the constitution seriously.

    To do it outside the color of law would involve being on the losing side of a short civil war.

    And if they had succeeded somehow in merely stopping the certification of the election past noon on January 20, 2021, that would have made Nancy Pelosi Acting President of the United States.

    Somehow preventing a certification would not have extended Donald Trump’s first term by one additional second.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  30. 28. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 3:11 pm

    I voted for Larry Hogan, a Republican, in 2020,

    I don’t know if that was counted. You are actually voting for Electors. I asked Dov Hikind in 2016 who wanted people to vote for Paul Ryan if it would be counted, and he said he didn’t know. And he was a New York State Assemblyman!

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  31. Don’t forget the fake elector scheme.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:43 pm

    That was legal manuvering.

    The indictment argues I think that the fake electors were told they would be counted if their state certified them, and then Trump’s people tried to get Congress to accept them — except it never got to that point. It was stuck at objections and none of the false certificates were delivered I think.

    Had the objections been upheld and these states not cast any votes it would have been a bare majority of the Electoral votes for Trump (232-227) The objections were calibrated to reach such a result. I mean they could have objected to all 51 votes.

    If they had been rejected but still were needed the election would have been thrown into the House – where maybe no decision would be reached and at noon January 20, Nancy Pelosi would have become Acting President or perhaps Kamala Harris (having been selected as VP by the Senate)

    But Mike Pence would have been overruled – the only effect would be to reverse the default. That a majority of both houses would be needed to accept rather than reject votes.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  32. Here is an Echelon Insights poll that shows Trump leading Biden by 3 points that included an unnamed “moderate independent” as a third choice.

    Trump 42%
    Biden 39%
    Unnamed Moderate Independent 9%

    Without the “Moderate Independent”:

    Trump 44%
    Biden 45%

    DeSantis 41%
    Biden 44%

    By the way, immigration is way down the list of concerns.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  33. Thank you for this post, Dana. From where I sit, posts like this one on either side are unhelpful. Telling any group what they are the problem is the fastest way to have yourself views dismissed out of hand. To whit:

    Despite Trump facing one indictment after another, and one investigation after another, “40 million right-wing evangelical fingers going into 40 million right-wing evangelical ears and 20 million grimly pious mouths chanting, “Nah! Nah! I can’t hear you!””

    No one in that group is going to agree whith that. Do you really think anyone will? However, if you change

    “‘Nah! Nah! I can’t hear you!’”
    to

    To

    “Bullspit!”

    Then you’ll be closer to gaining their attention, simply because you are closer to describing what they say they are feeling. You are failing to state their position fairly

    Everyone bristles when they are unfairly described – I bristle. You bristle.

    felipe (5879c1)

  34. Appalled (03f53c) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:20 pm

    I completely agree with you. I am sure the Rs will learn just as much as the Ds learned when Trump won. The question is, what did the Ds learn, and what will the Rs learn? My guess is, “the same thing.” I wonder what the R response will be?

    felipe (5879c1)

  35. Everyone bristles when they are unfairly described – I bristle. You bristle.

    Just wait until Ragedunda gets here…

    BuDuh (a389a8)

  36. … Radegunda…

    BuDuh (a389a8)

  37. Which i why the No Labels thing is important, and why the Democrats are so fearful. They want it to be Trump or the Democrat. A third choice does not help them. Especially if it’s a viable third choice.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:56 pm

    That’s the rub-who is the No Labels choice. It’s easy to say generically “I want a third choice” but when that third choice has a name it becomes much harder. In reality partisan loyalties are deeply baked in, so I think neither party has much to fear from NL.

    ………..
    At this point, 3 in 10 Americans say they would entertain voting for a third-party “fusion” ticket comprised of a Democrat and a Republican. Just 5% say they would definitely vote for this option if Biden and Trump are the major party nominees and another 25% say they would probably vote third party. At the other end of the spectrum, 31% say they definitely would not support a fusion ticket and 34% probably would not.
    ………..
    Support for a third-party ticket drops even lower when names of possible candidates are introduced into the equation. The No Labels group has been pursuing ballot access and unveiled a policy statement this week at an event headlined by Democratic West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin and Republican former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman. Monmouth tested Manchin and Huntsman as an alternative ticket in a Biden-Trump race and found that only 2% of voters would definitely vote for this specific third-party option and just 14% would probably vote for them. Moreover, 44% definitely would not vote for a Manchin-Huntsman ticket and 31% probably would not. It does not appear to matter whether Manchin or Huntsman tops the ticket. Versions of this question that flipped the two names in the presidential and vice presidential slots got nearly identical support levels.

    “We are still very much in the realm of hypotheticals, where voters’ assessment of their actual behavior can be unreliable. However, the more concrete you make an alternative to the major party candidates, the less attractive it becomes. A third-party nominee needs to capture voters’ imagination to be successful. It is not clear that such a charismatic figure exists right now,” said ( Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute.)

    ………On the surface it seems like Republican voters are more inclined to vote for such a ticket (25% for a generic ticket and 15% for Manchin/Huntsman specifically) than Democrats are (18% for a generic ticket and 8% for Manchin/Huntsman). …….
    ……….
    “What voters say they want in an ideal world and how they actually act in a distrustful hyper-partisan environment are two very different things. When partisanship, particularly a negative view of the opposite party, drives voters’ decision-making, any third-party effort starts with a low ceiling for support,” said Murray.
    …………..

    No one would describe Manchin, Huntsman, Paul Ryan, or Larry Hogan as “charismatic.” No Labels would be better off if it ran one of the Kardashians. It would win in a landslide.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  38. And the wind said “Radegunda”.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  39. aphrael (4c4719) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:34 pm

    Great point aphreal. What is the root cause of any polarization? What have been the consequences when it is either ignored or nurtured?

    felipe (5879c1)

  40. > to be fair, would you actually vote for a totally honest and forthright Republican who promised to continue Trump’s policies regarding immigration and trade?

    Depends on who they were running against and what their other positions are. Every election is a choice trying to find the least bad selection.

    But … I voted for the Republican candidate for AG of California in 2010, despite him promising to defend Prop 8 in court, because the Democrat running against him was absolutely unacceptable in that job.

    So i’d consider it, absolutely.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  41. > The Supreme Court would have smacked them down so hard it’s funny, and they would ALL be facing treason trials.

    This is an awful lot of faith in Trump’s appointees to courts. I don’t have that faith.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  42. Is Tuesday GOING TO BE “hair shirt” day or we simply celebrating Ashura a couple weeks late?

    steveg (33ddec)

  43. Really, felipe? When Trump’s own rally-goers, right in his face, at his own rallies, in the hall he’s rented for them, tell him “Nah! Nah! I can’t hear you!” when he tries to tell them about vaccines or a candidate he likes but they don’t?

    nk (92d3fc)

  44. Not sure why I capitalized GOING TO BE, but if any one needed to be yelled at, you are welcome

    steveg (33ddec)

  45. They don’t want to be persuaded. They want to be vindicated. “Yes, l’yddle is a word.” Right, Sarah?

    nk (92d3fc)

  46. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:22 pm

    I hear you, Paul. I have never cast a protest vote. I must first explain what I think a “protest vote” would be. A voter is fed up with the party and would like to support a candidate, but the just can’t stand them, and instead, votes for someone who they do not support or enjoy. Such an act strikes me as foolish.

    Say you like Mcdonald’s, but you hate the CEO. So you buy a burger at Burger King, instead, as a protest, when you don’t really like Burger King – is this really addressing your specific grievance? I do not believe so.

    A course of action that would be more likely to succeed, in that goal, would be to picket that CEO, and get your burger at a McDonald’s.

    If enough people switch,in protest, from McDonald’s to Burger King because of one CEO, you might get a new CEO, but likely you’ll get less McDonald’s and more Burger Kings collaterally.

    felipe (5879c1)

  47. aphrael (4c4719) — 8/8/2023 @ 4:11 pm

    Well said.

    felipe (5879c1)

  48. The New Normal in New Hampshire:

    ………..
    ……….. In an exclusive new NHJournal/co-efficient poll, 62 percent of GOP primary voters said they would vote to make Trump president even if he were convicted of a felony. In a further display of resolve, 57 percent said they would vote to send Trump back to the White House even if he were “serving time in prison” on Election Day.

    “As a pollster, I wonder if there is any other political figure in America who could generate this level of loyalty,” said co-efficient CEO Ryan Munce. “It will be difficult for any Republican to peel away these voters.”
    ……….
    Trump had the support of 43 percent of NHGOP primary voters, while Gov. Ron DeSantis and former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie were tied for second place with 9 percent. Former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley was at seven percent, and fellow South Carolinian Sen. Tim Scott was tied with entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy at five percent.

    North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum (4 percent) edged out former Vice President Mike Pence (3 percent).
    ……….
    ……….Just 25 percent of GOP primary voters said they believe Trump committed a crime related to the January 6, 2021, U.S. Capitol riot, as special counsel Jack Smith has charged. The remaining 75 percent either believed Trump is completely innocent (35 percent), or they weren’t sure about his guilt or innocence but believed he is “only being prosecuted because he’s Donald Trump.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  49. You want to let them know that you vote, just not for them.

    nk (92d3fc)

  50. Just wait until Ragedunda gets here…
    BuDuh (a389a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 3:52 pm

    Heh! I love Redegunda, which is why I would not use bristel to describe her. I would use “prickle.”

    felipe (5879c1)

  51. nk (92d3fc) — 8/8/2023 @ 4:15 pm

    Yes, really. You are right that no one wants to be persuaded – what they want is to be romanced.

    felipe (5879c1)

  52. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 3:11 pm

    I was right to explain that “protest vote” meant voting against your party. Good to hear your explanation. I have done the same.

    felipe (5879c1)

  53. Oh, but in my case, I wasn’t protesting, I actually voted for the guy I supported.

    felipe (5879c1)

  54. That may be your kind of protest vote, felipe, but it ain’t mine, and I’m not touching that fast food analogy.
    Bottom line, the standard-bearer of my party is too unfit and too unhinged and too immoral for me to vote for, and I won’t be voting for the Democrat, so the choice is to not vote or throw my vote away and pick someone else in protest.
    Since I’m in WA State, where a Republican hasn’t won in 40 years, it’s all the more a throwaway.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  55. nk (92d3fc) — 8/8/2023 @ 4:43 pm

    I completely agree. I will vote for Tim Scott in the Primary even if I must write in his name. But in the General, It will the Republican candidate for whom I vote. I like voting despite having a perfect record of 0 and X. None of my candidates get elected POTUS. Odds are that we do not get a Republican president, but hey, I can’t lose ’em all, right?

    felipe (5879c1)

  56. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 4:52 pm

    Again, I hear you. Do I have this correct – You are not voting, but for all the right reasons?

    felipe (5879c1)

  57. I’m a bit concerned over the likelihood that the DC trial will be closed to the general public. With only a few seats in the courtroom, these will be allocated to newspeople and other accredited types.

    Not only does this not provide the needed public airing of the facts, but it will inevitably result in alternative facts being given uncontested reign. Trump is, if anything, a creature of propaganda and disinformation, and a non-public trial will give his trolls the ability to make any claim they want and the actual facts will be lost in the MSM’s own spin factory.

    The 6th Amendment demands public trials. Currently, this is interpreted as it was in 1789 — a courtroom that you had to travel to and find a seat. This is much like treating speech as only spoken in person, or self-defense with a musket. At some point we have to recognize that “public” in the 21st century requires electronic access.

    Some will suggest that we cannot do that, that camera change behavior. But changing behavior was exactly what the “public trial” requirement was about.

    If you want to make the case to the public that Trump is a crook, that he attempted a coup, you have to put the facts in front of them. The trial should be as open as technically possible.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  58. (Democrats) want it to be Trump……..

    And Republican voters are gleefully agreeing…..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  59. No it’s not. Sedition is.

    Overthrowing the government IS “making war” on it, and an overt act. Maybe there would not have been two eyewitnesses, but I’m betting there would.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  60. @ felipe,

    Thank you for this post, Dana. From where I sit, posts like this one on either side are unhelpful. Telling any group what they are the problem is the fastest way to have yourself views dismissed out of hand. To whit:

    Despite Trump facing one indictment after another, and one investigation after another, “40 million right-wing evangelical fingers going into 40 million right-wing evangelical ears and 20 million grimly pious mouths chanting, “Nah! Nah! I can’t hear you!””

    No one in that group is going to agree whith that. Do you really think anyone will? However, if you change

    “‘Nah! Nah! I can’t hear you!’”
    to

    To

    “Bullspit!”

    Then you’ll be closer to gaining their attention, simply because you are closer to describing what they say they are feeling. You are failing to state their position fairly

    Everyone bristles when they are unfairly described – I bristle. You bristle.

    Hi felipe,

    Let me be clear here: I am not trying to be “helpful”. To the best of my ability, I am being truthful in telling it as I see it. I was a Republican for all of my adult life. Until Trump. Now I no longer recognize the once-viable Party. I have no interest in trying to be helpful to MAGA voters. They are adults, they make their choices, just like we do. However, given that every American has seen Trump’s dishonesty, corruption, self-serving hypocrisy, thin-skinned demand for loyalty – even when doing that which is unlawful – and his non-stop dishonest hyperventilation about a “stolen election,” (which wasn’t stolen), as well as his attacks on innocent Americans and efforts to intimidate them and turning on those who worked for him, I suspect there is some level of self-dishonesty involved with those who still defend him and will cast their vote for him. Everything has been laid bare. If people choose not to look, rationalize in absurdly defensive ways, or feel such sycophantic loyalty to a patently corrupt individual, that’s on them. I also think that, at a certain point in time, Trump’s cult is complicit in poisoning the Republican well, and far too many Congresspeople are willing to bow to their will in order to protect their political futures.

    P.S. Also, the “Nah! Nah! I can’t hear you!” is a quote from Kevin Williamson’s linked piece. And one that I agree with.

    Dana (4020dd)

  61. They couldn’t do it. They didn’t have the votes. Anywhere.

    Did you miss my word “IF”?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  62. That’s the rub-who is the No Labels choice.

    Who knows. But let’s postulate that it is noticeably better that Trump or Biden. I’m sure that the two-party-system trolls will be all about “Don’t throw away your vote!” or “You’ll only help _____!” but both of those are self-serving propaganda.

    Just like the piece you quoted.

    That crap should be countered by “Vote for who you want! Nor for who they want you to want!”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  63. So i’d consider it, absolutely.

    Thanks. I’m just trying to separate out Trump, the scum, from the politics of the matter. I’m glad you can keep it separate, not all can.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  64. This is an awful lot of faith in Trump’s appointees to courts. I don’t have that faith.

    I have faith they don’t want to be on the losing side, and Trump’s side would be the losing one.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  65. @ Kevin,

    If you want to make the case to the public that Trump is a crook, that he attempted a coup, you have to put the facts in front of them. The trial should be as open as technically possible.

    I’m torn about this, and whether it should be televised so Americans everywhere can see with their own eyes. My fear is that live coverage showing the former president sitting at a table, unable to freely speak while surrounded by suits and an Obama-appointed judge, etc., will play up his self-described “victimization” and pour fuel on the already-angered MAGA base, who see this as yet another “witch hunt” by a “weaponized” DOJ or the ooga-booga “Deep State”. Every time an indictment rolls around, the chump’s numbers go up. What impact will a live visual have?

    Dana (4020dd)

  66. Bottom line, the standard-bearer of my party is too unfit and too unhinged and too immoral for me to vote for, and I won’t be voting for the Democrat, so the choice is to not vote or throw my vote away and pick someone else in protest.

    But really, you do choose someone you prefer. Let’s say that your choices are Trump, Newsom, and the Libertarian, Green and Constitution party candidates.

    Whatever you choose will be a preference, of sorts. Even if you write in “Mitt Romney.” A true protest vote would be for a candidate you despised, but knew would lose. Why would you not make an aspirational choice?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  67. Dana,

    My argument is also that the 6th Amendment REQUIRES it to be televised, or streamed, or whatever electronic distribution is most conducive to making it “public.”

    Something that was the natural extent of public participation in 1789 is woefully inadequate in 2023.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  68. What impact will a live visual have?

    It will at least limit whatever self-serving lies his trolls post. If it’s closed, then they’ll make claims that are largely unfalsifiable.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  69. Moreover, felipe, I have given much thought to the evangelical fervor for Trump, which continues to this day. I believe that it makes a mockery of the Faith in that the individual being lionized evidences no real fruits. On the contrary. And yes, to some degree we are all fruit inspectors. We look for that which resonates with us, that represents our belief systems or faith, and our political philosophies and positions. That the “church” continues to worship such a foul being with feet of clay speaks volumes.

    Dana (4020dd)

  70. Do I have this correct – You are not voting, but for all the right reasons?

    I’m voting, just not for Trump or Biden. The message I’m sending to both parties is “do better”.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  71. If all federal trials were streamed, if only by some fixed camera(s), it would provide the accused with a measure of assurance that the trial would be conducted fairly. The open trial requirement of the 6th Amendment is aimed at this protection, but in a world that is so completely different than the world of the Founders, this protection needs an upgrade.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  72. That the “church” continues to worship such a foul being with feet of clay speaks volumes.

    I agree with this, but it’s nothing new. There are black churches that are as far from the Ebeneezer Baptist Church as can be. There are places where there are two Baptist Churches in town, one white, one black. I know evangelicals who dislike Donald Trump for many of the reasons you’d cite. And I know others who never go to church who support him.

    I think that you’d find that much of his evangelical support is due to other reasons that Christian thought, although some may be due to his opponent wishing them and theirs such ill.

    Hard to say.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  73. I read somewhere, and I believe that cameras make people behave differently. I think that’s true, and even more so when the stakes are high. Also, Trump is a master of reality television. There is definitely a risk to airing the trial.

    Dana (4020dd)

  74. If nothing else, cameras in the courtroom will show us if Trump can keep more or less regular hours. You know, wake up in the morning, shave, shower, dress, be in court by 9:30, stay awake for six or seven hours, and then do it again the next day and the day after ….

    nk (92d3fc)

  75. @12

    whembly, as long as Trump is the frontrunner for the GOP, f-ck both parties.
    I’m more than ready for my third presidential protest vote in a row.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:22 pm

    Cool.

    We deserve the politicians we elect.

    whembly (cc66c8)

  76. And on the other hand, you have people like me who have always voted for multiple parties but who are now utterly unwilling to vote for a party whose *leaders* are willing to turn the country over to someone who will use the apparatus of state as an appanage of his personal family empire.

    Trump will sell out the American interest to anyone who soothes his ego or makes him money, and the Republican electorate is *happy* to have him do it as long as it makes liberals angry.

    aphrael (4c4719) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:34 pm

    That you can type this with Bribe’m leading the leftist party is ironic.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  77. Overthrowing the government IS “making war” on it, and an overt act. Maybe there would not have been two eyewitnesses, but I’m betting there would.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:29 pm

    That’s a creative interpretation. There is no precedent for purely domestic offenses to be consider treasonous; and all convictions involved offenses during some war. Not even John Walker Lindh was charged with treason.

    Seditious conspiracy covers all of the necessary conditions. The reason it was not charged in the January 6th case is the lack of “proof beyond a reasonable doubt.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  78. @67

    Dana,

    My argument is also that the 6th Amendment REQUIRES it to be televised, or streamed, or whatever electronic distribution is most conducive to making it “public.”

    Something that was the natural extent of public participation in 1789 is woefully inadequate in 2023.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:48 pm

    Yeah, I’m not seeing that.

    In fact, I think cameras in court room isn’t necessarily a good thing, as Judges/prosecutors/defense would be “playing for the camera”.

    whembly (cc66c8)

  79. @70

    I’m voting, just not for Trump or Biden. The message I’m sending to both parties is “do better”.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:51 pm

    We have primaries/caucus’…

    Lets work towards a not-Trump/not-Biden!

    whembly (cc66c8)

  80. @73

    I read somewhere, and I believe that cameras make people behave differently. I think that’s true, and even more so when the stakes are high. Also, Trump is a master of reality television. There is definitely a risk to airing the trial.

    Dana (4020dd) — 8/8/2023 @ 6:01 pm

    Exactly this.

    whembly (cc66c8)

  81. Also, Trump is a master of reality television. There is definitely a risk to airing the trial.

    Alex Jones is a circus ringmaster who was in a televised trial, and it didn’t turn out well for him.
    I’m willing to take the risk and see a televised record of Trump on trial (actually, I want all federal trials televised). Attorneys and such will grandstand, but there are courtroom procedures and protocols that still must be followed.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  82. Mar-a-Bundist Saleroso did not do all that well in his filmed depositions either.

    nk (92d3fc)

  83. filmed videotaped. I could not think of the word. Too new for me.

    nk (92d3fc)

  84. Lets work towards a not-Trump/not-Biden!

    whembly (cc66c8) — 8/8/2023 @ 6:19 pm

    It’s certainly not going to be not-Trump.

    Rip Murdock (bac490)

  85. I like Paul’s rationale of making sure a vote gets registered, whether it’s a write-in or a 3rd party. It says I’m not playing this flight 93 election game.

    AJ_Liberty (141d9c)

  86. OHIO voters give republican party a post natal aborton! As I posted last night these republican devils were trying to raise the ballot victory from 50% to 60% of vote to stop abortion protection ballot measure from passing. Voters said NO! we will keep it at 50%! AZ is next!

    asset (ccab14)

  87. Show me a partisan Democrat who says things like “Sure, I don’t like the idea of deporting people, but it’s the Law and we can’t just pick and choose” and I’ll eat my hat.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 11:01 am

    Obama deported more illegals per year than Trump did.

    Unless you think Obama isn’t a partisan Democrat, would you like honey-mustard with that hat?

    Before you jump down my throat, no, I’m not saying Obama didn’t push the legal envelope on immigration. Just that even while he was litigating his ill-conceived attempt to give millions of illegals amnesty, he was deporting others at a clip faster than Trump’s. The point being, the operative differences between administrations of opposing parties aren’t as black and white as you’re painting them. At the end of the day, as the numbers show, the actual differences are usually marginal and sometimes even counter-intuitive.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  88. Its the law we can’t pick and choose. So you agree with the arrest of rosa parks for not giving up her seat to a white man. She broke the law. Democrats to have respect for the law the law has to be respectable. Republicans tried to pull more evil law making tonight in ohio.

    asset (ccab14)

  89. taped? = filmed? digitized? How about we all are going to behave kindly and stipulate we are adults who know wtf you are talking about

    steveg (33ddec)

  90. Sorry. Spoke too soon

    steveg (33ddec)

  91. 9:16PM was pre-emptive. You’ve probably gone off the rails in the last two minutes

    steveg (33ddec)

  92. No it’s not. Sedition is.

    Overthrowing the government IS “making war” on it, and an overt act. Maybe there would not have been two eyewitnesses, but I’m betting there would.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:29 pm

    Lol. How many times do we have to go through this, Kevin? Art III Sec 3 isn’t what you want it to be. It’s what the courts, mostly and especially the Supreme Court, have said it is. And those courts have read Art III Sec 3 very narrowly.

    The “enemy” has to be an enemy with which we’re engaged in an actual, kinetic, shooting war. For Pete’s sake, even the Rosenbergs weren’t prosecuted for treason. Why do you suppose that is? Didn’t they adhere and/or give aid and comfort to the Soviet Union? Obviously. Weren’t the Soviets our enemy? Colloquially very much so. Far more than the MAGA clown car that attacked the capital. But for Art III Sec 3 purposes, no, the Soviets weren’t our enemy. As potentially global cataclysmic as the Cold War was, it wasn’t a shooting war, at least not directly between the principles.

    No shooting war, no Art III Sec 3 enemy. No Art III Sec 3 enemy, no treason.

    Give it up, Kevin. It’s not treason. It’s never going to be treason.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  93. If we are facing a Trump vs. Biden rematch then nobody of goodwill who claims to love this country and revere the Constitution should vote for either candidate. It’s as simple as that.

    JVW (1ad43e) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:37 pm

    I respectfully disagree. To borrow a Ken White metaphor, if I have to choose between cancer and the clap, I’m doing everything I can to eradicate the cancer. That’s not an endorsement of the clap, just a cost-benefit choice. If you prefer to leave it to chance, I respect your right to do so, but I won’t pretend I think it’s advisable. Or maybe you believe the metaphor is flawed because you don’t find Trump that much more dangerous, corrosive and in every other way objectionable than Biden. Again I respect your right to that opinion, but I disagree.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  94. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:58 pm

    The numbers tell me a different story. The numbers mean more people illegally entered the country during Obama’s admin than during Trump’s. Which is why Obama’s deportation numbers were higher because the border was more porous under his watch.

    felipe (5879c1)

  95. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:25 pm

    I voted for Trump in 2016 (and regret it) and the Libertarian candidate in 2020.

    In 2024, if it’s Trump versus Biden, and they’re polling close in my state, I will vote for Biden. I can’t afford to be cavalier in order to send a message to Biden. Trump has done more damage to this country than any President since Andrew Johnson.

    Too many commenters here are stuck in the old left versus right policy divide. What they don’t consider is that one of Trump’s “policies” is worse than any of Biden’s policies.

    What policy, you ask? The policy of denying election results, which led to pressuring people to “find” votes and substitute fake electors. He has also made statements suggestive of civil war. Oh, and don’t forget his tweet about wanting to terminate the Constitution. If you missed these things, you haven’t paid sufficient attention.

    You see, bad policies can be revoked or corrected after the next election, but not if people deny election results, seek to terminate the Constitution, and try to stay in office illegally. Fortunately, the Democrats haven’t done these things like Trump has, so it’s okay to vote for them on a temporary basis, just to get rid of Trump and his cult. We can fix any bad policies the Democrats might enact later.

    The UK, New Zealand and Sweden used to be much more socialist than they are now, which proves that lefty policies are not a one-way street.

    It’s not whether you prefer a lefty or a righty. Trump has brought other, more important considerations into play.

    All of Trump’s degeneracy is right in front of you. Wake up! Don’t let your habitual aversion to Democrats blind you to it. And don’t be distracted by Hunter Biden. He is run-of-the-mill. Trump is the bigger threat.

    Respecting election results comes before anything else. Otherwise, we will become a banana republic.

    norcal (b6beca)

  96. taped? = filmed? digitized? How about we all are going to behave kindly and stipulate we are adults who know wtf you are talking about

    steveg (33ddec) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:16 pm

    Sorry. Spoke too soon

    steveg (33ddec) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:18 pm

    9:16PM was pre-emptive. You’ve probably gone off the rails in the last two minutes

    steveg (33ddec) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:19 pm

    steveg, what an ugly thing to say! I abhor ugliness. Does this mean we’re not friends anymore? You know, steveg, if I thought you weren’t my friend, I just don’t think I could bear it.

    nk (6c4163)

  97. The other reason to have cameras in the courtroom is that it’s the only way we’ll get a fair view of the proceedings without the media filter:

    For example, Judge Cannon raised serious and valid concerns about Jack Smith’s use of the DC grand jury as a discovery device in the Florida case to go around the limitations on discovery in criminal cases. Like deposing witnesses which neither the prosecutor nor the defense are allowed to do, but Jack Smith is using the DC grand jury to do it.

    Even worse, Jack Smith is trying to get Waltine Nauta’s attorney knocked off the case by raising the specter of a conflict of interest which Jack Smith created by putting the attorney’s former clients on the prosecution’s witness list. That’s right out of the DOJ’s Prosecutors’ Little Black Book Of Dirty Tricks. Giuliani did it to the lawyer himself — listed him as a witness just to disqualify him but never called him — in the Gotti case.

    Neither of those stories have gotten fair reporting that I have seen. You have to read between the lines and have a criminal trial background to understand what’s going on, and much of the coverage includes of the judge when she is absolutely is right as far as I can see, and I’m no fan of Trump.

    nk (6c4163)

  98. coverage includes *derision* of the judge

    nk (6c4163)

  99. I dunno, nk, the DC grand jury doesn’t seem to be Cannon’s business or jurisdiction, as explained in this thread. The issue with the Mar-A-Lago case is Trump’s willful retention and obstruction, aided by his two loyal minions. The DC grand jury appears to pertain to the theft of the documents from the White House in the first place, which involves Meadows, Lewandowski, Bobb, etc., and Trump himself (Indictment #5?).

    The issue with the co-conspirators’ lawyers appears to be the same situation as Cassidy Hutchinson, where the attorneys Trump’s people gave her had a conflict of interest, whom she thankfully jettisoned and found legal counsel who advocated for her interests above the the ex-president who paid their legal fees.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  100. @ Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 11:01 am

    This is a perfect comment.
    Thank you.

    Joe (78bd5e)

  101. Oh, it almost certainly will turn out to be “legal”.

    nk (6c4163)

  102. In fact, I think cameras in court room isn’t necessarily a good thing, as Judges/prosecutors/defense would be “playing for the camera”.

    Would you accept a limitation of guns based on what was available in 1789? I’m sure an argument could be made that expanding those rights to modern weapons would have some unfortunate results.

    Would you accept a limitation on speech based on how far a voice could carry? Arguments regarding porn, incitement, slander, racial invective and other examples of harmful speech are easy to make.

    The 6th Amendment requires a public trial to protect the defendant’s due process rights. No other constitutional protection is limited to the means available in the Founder’s era. Why this one?

    Sure, you can find reasons why this might be a bad idea, but horribles are always easy to find when the government worries about the People having too many rights.

    I don’t buy the behavior argument anyway. It might be that way at first, but people settle into a new system pretty quickly. Sure, Lance Ito was an ass in the OJ trial, but few other judges have had that reaction to cameras in their courts. Perhaps due to the perception of Judge Ito.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  103. https://therightscoop.com/breaking-jury-finds-antifa-members-who-assaulted-andy-ngo-not-liable-after-defense-attorney-declares-i-am-antifa/

    Portland jury declares open season on non-leftists and that they deserve what they get. Amd you wonder jow the Nazi’s rose to power.

    NJRob (d9b3a7)

  104. The “enemy” has to be an enemy with which we’re engaged in an actual, kinetic, shooting war. For Pete’s sake, even the Rosenbergs weren’t prosecuted for treason. Why do you suppose that is?

    Because they did not attempt to overthrow the government? Just a guess.

    A number of Confederates were charged with treason, although President Johnson’s blanket amnesty for Confederate soldiers short-circuited that process. It is widely thought, and not really disputed, that the insurrection of 1861 was treason.

    “The Confederacy, the American Civil War, was fought, and it was an act of rebellion,” he said. “It was an act of treason, at the time, against the Union, against the Stars and Stripes, against the U.S. Constitution. Those officers turned their back on their oath.”

    –General Milley, 2020

    More here

    I see no reason to argue overthrowing the government through abuse of process (followed by martial law and lethal force) would not be a similar treason.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  105. @98

    The other reason to have cameras in the courtroom is that it’s the only way we’ll get a fair view of the proceedings without the media filter:

    For example, Judge Cannon raised serious and valid concerns about Jack Smith’s use of the DC grand jury as a discovery device in the Florida case to go around the limitations on discovery in criminal cases. Like deposing witnesses which neither the prosecutor nor the defense are allowed to do, but Jack Smith is using the DC grand jury to do it.

    Even worse, Jack Smith is trying to get Waltine Nauta’s attorney knocked off the case by raising the specter of a conflict of interest which Jack Smith created by putting the attorney’s former clients on the prosecution’s witness list. That’s right out of the DOJ’s Prosecutors’ Little Black Book Of Dirty Tricks. Giuliani did it to the lawyer himself — listed him as a witness just to disqualify him but never called him — in the Gotti case.

    Neither of those stories have gotten fair reporting that I have seen. You have to read between the lines and have a criminal trial background to understand what’s going on, and much of the coverage includes of the judge when she is absolutely is right as far as I can see, and I’m no fan of Trump.

    nk (6c4163) — 8/9/2023 @ 4:02 am

    I don’t know what’s kosher or not…

    But is the judge right about using DC grand jury for a Florida case? I was under the impression that a normal thing to do. (as a prosecutor from on area, works with another prosecutor in different parts of the country).

    whembly (5f7596)

  106. Its the law we can’t pick and choose. So you agree with the arrest of rosa parks for not giving up her seat to a white man. She broke the law.

    Yes indeed I agree with that. The way to kill a bad law is to enforce it rigorously, not to be arbitrary or biased in its application.

    And you know what? Arresting Rosa Parks resulting in that law being removed from the books. Which is EXACTLY what should have happened.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  107. The other reason to have cameras in the courtroom is that it’s the only way we’ll get a fair view of the proceedings without the media filter

    Exactly my point. The natural limitations of 1789 on “public” trials are now government’s choice. What other portion of the Bill of Rights is limited by governmental choice in the face of technological progress?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  108. “These uncontested facts ought to be understood as dispositive. The fact that they have not disqualified Donald Trump in the hearts and minds of Republican voters is not a judgment on Trump—it is a judgment on Republican voters.”

    And this is where we sit. The problem isn’t that people who are Trump adverse aren’t working hard enough. It’s that a) there aren’t enough of us and b) the base continues to prefer a different reality. The situation has ossified because Right-wing entertainment media obscures reality with various snipe hunts and existential Chicken Little-ing. And GOP leadership impotently echoes it for fear of being made the next Liz Cheney.

    The majority of the GOP can’t handle the truth…and there’s no amount of Jessup-ing them that is changing that. Maybe after Labor Day more people will focus harder (!?). Maybe the debates coupled with dreary polls might energize more tough-love truth telling by candidates. Maybe yet one more indictment might break the camel’s back. The problem is that we are merrily continue down a path of delegitimizing both our electoral system and our justice system for…Trump. But some here will still vote for him over some stinking-grooming-corrupt Democrat…because [fill in some existential reason here] and [fill in some false equivalency here] and [fill in some Utopian view that the system will protect us from Trump here].

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  109. @106/98:

    The text of the Constitution requires 1) a grand jury indictment, and 2) a trial in the district where the crime was committed. I don’t see it requiring the grand jury to be local as well. Maybe there are some cases on point.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  110. The majority of the GOP can’t handle the truth

    What is “truth” and what among competing truths are more important? The biggest lie by Trump is not the one you think it is, it is this: “Only I can fix your problems!”

    Many of us are still trying to convince Republican voters to abandon Trump because 1) J6, 2) his character, or 3) his many crimes. Instead, we should be focusing on his inability to get things done.

    The reasons why people turned to Trump (and why they remain in his camp) are still there (did I mention he was unable to fix stuff?). Understanding those issues, and other candidates moving to address them, are the way to peel people away. All that would be influenced by yet another indictment are gone already.

    Which is why I repeatedly argue that understanding the reason people turned to Trump in the first place is absolutely necessary. DeSantis has failed because DeSantis doesn’t have a clue; it’s not wokeness that Trump’s people fear. It’s economic. The only pol who seems to grasp this is (wait for it) Joe Biden.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  111. It seems to me that the question on the Trump trial is pragmatic, because a subset of the voters has become flamingly stupid regarding all matters Trump.

    And the pragmatic question is this — will there me more disinformation stemming from a trial on camera vs a trial without cameras? I honestly don’t know. I will say it bothered me that the 1-6 committee format did not allow for Trump to defend himself, which resulted in something that was one sided and easy to dismiss. Maybe showing Trump defend himself, having to address a specific charge and fail might help.

    Appalled (2966c8)

  112. Or this: Trump is an assh0le. We can all agree on that. Trump will inevitably be an assh0le on camera, too.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  113. This should be basic stuff, to verify the “reporting” from low credibility sites like The Right Scoop, which only gives you half the story, and who didn’t tell you that Ngo was unable to positively identify his assailants.
    It says something about the law enforcement capabilities of Portland PD which, if they’re like Seattle, they’re quitting in droves.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  114. #113

    Kevin M — As you should know by now, the a-hole part of things is part of Trump’s charisma for the beyond all rational persuasion voter. The trial on camera might show how useless that personality trait is.

    Appalled (2966c8)

  115. Like I said, media filter. Cannon’s ruling was preceded by her denial of two prosecution motions (attempted to be?) presented under seal. She may be bristling at the attempt to impose DC grand jury secrecy on Trump’s Florida public trial. And that might be the best guess.

    nk (6c4163)

  116. https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/08/09/breaking-house-oversight-republicans-tracked-20m-in-foreign-sources-to-biden-inc-n570082

    Biden literally selling out the nation to the highest bidder.

    Yet some keep voting for this.

    NJRob (d9b3a7)

  117. I will say it bothered me that the 1-6 committee format did not allow for Trump to defend himself, which resulted in something that was one sided and easy to dismiss. Maybe showing Trump defend himself, having to address a specific charge and fail might help.

    Appalled (2966c8) — 8/9/2023 @ 7:38 am

    Did it bother you that they hid and destroyed government records rather than give them to the next Congress as required?

    NJRob (d9b3a7)

  118. Paul neglecting to mention that Ngo got a hold of the social media accounts showing these 2 playing an active role in the attack on Ngo.

    But you love those lefty biased sites like daily beast.

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-beast/

    NJRob (083334)

  119. NJ Rob:

    The raw source of your HotAir link is here:

    https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Third-Bank-Records-Memorandum_Redacted.pdf

    I did a search on “Joe” in the pdf to see if there was anything directly showing money paid directly to Joe Biden. Nope. All we have is Hunter Biden being a sleaze again.

    I am assuming that the Committee has access to Hunter Biden’s financial records or are trying to get them? That might help. When there’s smoke in this case…it’s Hunter hitting the crack pipe again.

    Also instructive — a search through Archer’s deposition on the term “Milano”. Much has been made about Joe Biden’s attendance at that meeting. What’s missing is that it appears nothing was really discussed.

    Appalled (2966c8)

  120. norcal (b6beca) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:58 pm

    Hear, hear!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  121. #118

    Not sure what you are taking about (and I don’t have time to dig it up.) Given the release of the 1-6 security tapes to Tucker Carlson, and the tourist video that was made from them, I am less outraged than I probably should be if the 1-6 folks did not preserve the records of their investigation for the next Congress.

    Appalled (2966c8)

  122. I see no reason to argue overthrowing the government through abuse of process (followed by martial law and lethal force) would not be a similar treason.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/9/2023 @ 7:01 am

    Except that it has no basis in history or law.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  123. NJRob, at 76: meh. Biden is, at worst, a run of the mill corrupt politician. Trump is a con man who cares about nobody other than himself and who will happily make the entire US government his personal toy, while using his skills as a con man to make a huge chunk of the population love it because he’s also attacking the people they don’t like.

    Trump has *already* done an incredible amount of damage to the Republic. He was a toxic force before he got into politics, and it’s only gotten worse from there.

    aphrael (40df37)

  124. Trump will inevitably be an assh0le on camera, too.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/9/2023 @ 7:52 am

    Personal behavior is highly regulated during court proceedings. If Trump acted out during a trial, he would be sanctioned and/or removed from the courtroom and forced to watch it by camera. And cameras in courtrooms are controlled by the court, not the media, so there would not be cutaways to show Trump’s reaction.

    ……..
    There are at least two pathways toward televising the Trump trial. One is for the Judicial Conference, run by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., to vote for an amendment to Rule 53. Indeed, the conference has considered the idea of allowing cameras for more than 30 years, and, in 1994, it considered and rejected a proposal to televise criminal trials. But there is no need for the conference to resuscitate that proposal — it need only authorize broadcast of this unique case.

    The other mechanism is for Congress to pass a law — a possibility contemplated in Rule 53. While Congress finds itself incapable of much action these days, Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) notably introduced a bill this year that provides a framework for presiding federal judges to permit television coverage of their trials. That legislation could be a model for a specific bill in the Trump case. This shouldn’t be a partisan issue. (Grassley’s bill was co-sponsored by four Democratic senators.) …….

    Allowing cameras in the courtroom squares with the purpose of the Sixth Amendment, which guarantees a public trial. The handful of public observers in the courtroom might technically meet the amendment’s criteria. But in our Instagram era, an event that allows only a few to actually see hardly seems “public.”
    ……….

    Source

    Georgia allows cameras in the courtroom, but New York is a hard no.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  125. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/9/2023 @ 9:05 am

    Or placed in restraints.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  126. Kevin – let me put it this way, as a comparison.

    I don’t like DeSantis. I think his policies are wrong on the merits, I think it’s just *wrong* the way he is using the power of the state of Florida to pursue a personal vendetta against Disney, and I hate the fact that he seems to be going out of his way to harass members of my cultural tribe.

    But he’s a … slightly irritating more or less normal conservative populist.

    Trump, on the other hand, is a threat to the existence of the Republic.

    And that’s why you don’t see me running around denouncing DeSantis. We’ll survive him just fine; Trump, we might not.

    aphrael (286251)

  127. Paul neglecting to mention that Ngo got a hold of the social media accounts showing these 2 playing an active role in the attack on Ngo.

    Yet the court ruled otherwise, for lack of evidence.
    Antifa is a violent group whose agenda is the overthrow of the US government. It’s funny that right-wing hacks like Marge seek a similar result in the form of a “national divorce”.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  128. No Paul,

    the jury did that necause leftists have decided that nonleftists deserve to be beaten by their brownshirts.

    NJRob (083334)

  129. Ouch!

    ……….
    “American democracy simply cannot function without two equally healthy and equally strong political parties. So today, in my view, there is no Republican Party to counter the Democratic Party in the country,” (retired federal judge J. Michael Luttig), who advised Pence on how to handle the January 6, 2021, election certification vote, told CNN’s Poppy Harlow on “CNN This Morning.” “And for that reason, American democracy is in grave peril.”
    ……….
    “A political party is a collection and assemblage of individuals who share a set of beliefs and principles and policy views about the United States of America. Today, there is no such shared set of beliefs and values and principles or even policy views as within the Republican Party for America,” he said on Wednesday.

    ……..The former judge said that by charging Trump with criminal offenses of conduct, not speech, special counsel Jack Smith ensures that there could not be a First Amendment defense from Trump’s legal team.

    Asked by Harlow if Trump could use the premise that the former president actually thought he’d won the election, Luttig also struck down that defense notion “because the evidence is overwhelming that the former president knew full well that he had lost the election. And the standard will be, could a reasonable person have believed otherwise in the face of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  130. https://nypost.com/2023/08/08/white-house-cocaine-belonged-to-biden-family-orbit-report/

    A bag of cocaine found in the West Wing last month reportedly may have belonged to someone in the “Biden family orbit” — and the president allegedly knows who it is.

    Now… hear me out.

    I don’t think its Hunter.

    I bet it’s for Joe Biden.

    You just know, since running his campaign in his basement, and the 1st half of his Presidency, he’s hopped up on uppers like adderall and the likes. The problem is, at the dosage he’d need, he’d develop tolerance to the point that its effectiveness would wane.

    Going cocaine… might be the next step in order to prevent a “Weekend at Bernie’s” scenario.

    whembly (5f7596)

  131. Whembly, No way he’s snorting Coke…too many better prescription alternatives like modifanal

    Time123 (8a8f59)

  132. whembly (5f7596) — 8/9/2023 @ 11:06 am

    I first noticed Joe’s nose touching during the election cycle:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrY7lQlsje4

    I figured it was a signal he was using to speed up or slow down the puppet master that instructed him through a hidden ear piece.

    There are so many instances of him fiddling with his nose.

    Hmmmm.

    BuDuh (a389a8)

  133. There are so many instances of him fiddling with his nose.

    Hmmmm.

    BuDuh (a389a8) — 8/9/2023 @ 11:18 am

    You’re right. Here’s a picture.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  134. It was Commander, that’s why he’s been biting so many people.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  135. #133

    Oh dear heaven. Like Son, like Father, whembly?

    Pleae note the original sourcing for this is Soldier of Fortune magazine, which I guess might be more credible than the New York Post. They tried to text a phone number at the White House for people to contact the President. It bounced back as undeliverable, so they couldn’t get the president to answer in person. Maybe they will try again at a press availability near a helicopter.

    Appalled (2966c8)

  136. Original source, NY Post Story re coke in White House

    https://sofmag.com/secret-service-told-biden-who-brought-cocaine/

    Appalled (2966c8)

  137. Not sure what you are taking about (and I don’t have time to dig it up.) Given the release of the 1-6 security tapes to Tucker Carlson, and the tourist video that was made from them, I am less outraged than I probably should be if the 1-6 folks did not preserve the records of their investigation for the next Congress.

    Appalled (2966c8) — 8/9/2023 @ 8:40 am

    Easy to find, but for some reason you aren’t interested in leftists breaking the law anymore and abusing our political processes. Why is that?

    Is that called being nonpartisan?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/j6-committee-failed-to-preserve-records-has-no-data-on-capitol-hill-security-failures-gop-charges/ar-AA1eXWGe

    NJRob (083334)

  138. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/9/2023 @ 11:33 am

    Truly the dog days of summer.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  139. Hi NJ,

    Thank you for digging that out. Seems the 1-6 Committee was sloppy with records, didn’t keep their video depositions when they had a transcript, and ignored the whole Capitol “security failure” portion of the investigation. Chairman Loudermilk feels that they did not meet their recorcordkeeping responsibilities under the law.

    Now, that’s what I took out of the link. Is there something more I should take note of?

    Appalled (2966c8)

  140. @132

    Whembly, No way he’s snorting Coke…too many better prescription alternatives like modifanal

    Time123 (8a8f59) — 8/9/2023 @ 11:11 am

    Dunno man… the booger sugar is a hella drug.

    whembly (5f7596)

  141. Except that it has no basis in history or law.

    Except for the Civil War and a few other things. Aaron Burr got away with his crap because there weren’t two witnesses to an overt act. Does not mean there was not an overt act, just no witnesses who came forward.

    Ten men were tried for Treason after the Whiskey Rebellion, and two were convicted and sentenced to hang, but Washington pardoned them.

    You repeatedly conflate the two, quite separate, clauses in the treason definition. Aid & Comfort does indeed have to pertain to an “enemy” and perhaps a “war”, but that has nothing to do with a direct attack on the government.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  142. RIP founding guitarist and songwriter with The Band Robbie Robertson (80).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  143. You repeatedly conflate the two, quite separate, clauses in the treason definition. Aid & Comfort does indeed have to pertain to an “enemy” and perhaps a “war”, but that has nothing to do with a direct attack on the government.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/9/2023 @ 1:18 pm

    And you fail to provide any historic or legal support for your assertions.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  144. And that’s why you don’t see me running around denouncing DeSantis. We’ll survive him just fine; Trump, we might not.

    And why I don’t see Biden as an existential threat, but I’m not sure at all about AOC, given her announced plans to militarize the nation to fight the weather.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  145. And you fail to provide any historic or legal support for your assertions.

    I have don nothing BUT provide that historic support. The fact that you pretend I do not does not make your arguments any better. It makes you look more like a liar.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  146. I have don nothing BUT provide that historic support. The fact that you pretend I do not does not make your arguments any better. It makes you look more like a liar.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/9/2023 @ 1:22 pm

    Please reeducate me then when a treason prosecution has been brought outside of a wartime (or actual rebellion) context. Please include the legal citations.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  147. Appalled (2966c8) — 8/9/2023 @ 11:56 am

    They tried to text a phone number at the White House for people to contact the President. It bounced back as undeliverable, so they couldn’t get the president to answer in person. Maybe they will try again at a press availability near a helicopter.

    It was Susan Katz Keating, the publisher of Solder of Fortune magazine, who attempted, shortly after July 13, to use the SMS number she had been given by one of her sources. I don’t think it was intended to be used by the general public.

    When the New York Post tried that number more recently, instead of being bounced back, it got an automated text referring them to the Community messaging platform. This was something the White House announced in July 2022, but what they really wanted to do was to collect stories of people being personally affected by gun violence, so that Biden or others could use them in a speech.

    What the SoF story says is that Secret Service determined, for its own purposes, who had left the cocaine, and they were sure enough to tell Joe Biden, but they don’t have conclusive proof (partly because they didn’t try hard enough maybe. It’s whoever was last given the key to Locker Number 50 of 182 and did not return the key. Not al keys are returned.)
    ).

    She’s not the first to report this by the way. I think Sean Hannity (or somebody else on theradio) told his audience that the has beent told they know who it is who left the ccaine in the White House, and it wasn’t Hunter,

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  148. Please reeducate me then when a treason prosecution has been brought outside of a wartime (or actual rebellion) context. Please include the legal citations.

    Trump, if he had managed to hold power by extralegal means, would have led a temporarily successful rebellion.

    Remember, this thread was predicated on the J6 “plan” working, and having used martial law and deadly force to put down dissent (also part of the plan). If you missed that part, well, don’t butt in next time.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  149. Do I really need legal citations of the Whiskey Rebellion and Civil War charges? That’s pretty much a troll hoop.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  150. Trump, if he had managed to hold power by extralegal means, would have led a temporarily successful rebellion.

    For which he would have been guilty of insurrection or seditious conspiracy, not treason.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  151. Whatever, Rip. I’m done. Assert what you will.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  152. Do I really need legal citations of the Whiskey Rebellion and Civil War charges? That’s pretty much a troll hoop.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/9/2023 @ 1:43 pm

    No, but those were treason charges during wartime or armed rebellion, something didn’t exist on January 6th.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  153. Luttig:

    Frankly, I don’t care about the Republican Party at all, except to the extent that the two political parties in America are the political guardians of democracy in our country. American democracy simply cannot function without two equally healthy and equally strong political parties. So, today, in my view, there is no Republican Party to counter the Democratic Party in the country. And for that reason, American democracy is in grave peril.

    https://www.mediaite.com/tv/retired-conservative-judge-declares-american-democracy-in-grave-peril-because-there-is-no-republican-party/

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  154. Whatever, Rip. I’m done. Assert what you will.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/9/2023 @ 1:45 pm

    The assertions are all yours.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  155. ….militarize the nation to fight the weather.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/9/2023 @ 1:21 pm

    There’s a lot more people who want people to make sacrifices or changes (paying no attention at all to the question of whether they matter) in order to fight the weather.

    Light bulbs, stoves, anything made of plastic, cars, air conditioners refrigerators and now water heaters.

    (Well the plastic is not because of climate but because of possibly being poisoned by ingesting tiny plastic particles in fish. Most of it does not come from the United States or even any place on land. They just found out they overestimated the amount of plastic in the world’s oceans by a factor of thirty or maybe close to 100, but they say the increase from year to year stays the same.)

    https://sunny1065.iheart.com/featured/chris-davis/content/2023-08-09-new-study-shows-that-we-have-been-overestimating-amount-of-ocean-plastic

    https://news.abs-cbn.com/spotlight/08/08/23/plastic-litter-in-oceans-overestimated-study-suggests

    The model also found that less new plastic finds its way to the ocean every year than previously thought — about half a million tonnes instead of four to 12 million tonnes — stemming largely from coastlines and fishing activity.

    …Concern over the impact of plastics on the environment and human well-being has surged in recent years.

    Plastic debris is estimated to kill more than a million seabirds and 100,000 marine mammals each year, according to the United Nations Environment Programme.

    The new study comes as the world awaits the first draft of a highly anticipated international UN treaty to combat plastic pollution, expected in November.

    I think the reason for all this is that once people join in, they tend to believe more in the cause and will go along with other things that could make some people money.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  156. I save my plastic straws so I can throw them in the oceans when I visit California.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  157. Twitter was fined $350,000 for not complying with a subpoena for Trumps account fast enough.

    Now what were they expecting to find? Secret co-ordination and planning for the storming of the Capitol? Or at least names in Direct Messages that could lead to other things?

    Or maybe just his public tweets, which were no longer available because his account was closed?

    Well, they didn’t find anything.

    https://www.newser.com/story/338731/smith-obtained-warrant-for-trumps-twitter-records.html

    The filing says prosecutors got the search warrant directing Twitter to produce information on Trump’s account after a court “found probable cause to search the Twitter account for evidence of criminal offenses.”

    Author of False Elector Memo: It Will Fail, but Still Worth It Christie Fires Back After Trump Mocks His Weight Prof: Prosecuting Trump May Have ‘Terrible Consequences’ What the Ohio Vote on Abortion Means DeSantis Suspends Orlando’s Top Prosecutor Ohio Voters Deliver Big Win for Abortion Rights Lawmaker’s Wife Accused of Targeting Little Free Libraries Biden: New Monument Is ‘Good for the Country’s Soul’ Behind Effort to Smear Cuomo Accusers: His Sister DeSantis Just Replaced His Campaign Manager First GOP Debate Now Has Eight Qualifiers Judge Throws Out Trump Claim That Carroll Defamed Him
    POLITICS /
    DONALD TRUMP
    Twitter Gave Special Counsel Data on Trump’s Account
    Company was fined $350K for delay in complying with warrant, court records state
    By Newser Editors and Wire Services
    Posted Aug 9, 2023 12:58 PM CDT

    Smith Obtained Warrant for Trump’s Twitter Records
    Former President Donald Trump waves as he steps off his plane at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Thursday, Aug. 3, 2023, in Arlington, Virginia. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
    camera-icon View 1 more image
    Special counsel Jack Smith’s team obtained a search warrant in January for records related to former President Donald Trump’s Twitter account, and Twitter complied after some initial resistance, according to court documents released Wednesday. The details were included in a decision from the federal appeals court in Washington rejecting Twitter’s claim that it should not have been held in contempt or sanctioned because it missed the deadline for complying, the AP reports. The filing says prosecutors got the search warrant directing Twitter to produce information on Trump’s account after a court “found probable cause to search the Twitter account for evidence of criminal offenses.”

    story continues below

    “Although Twitter ultimately complied with the warrant, the company did not fully produce the requested information until three days after a court-ordered deadline,” according to the appeals court ruling, per Politico. “The district court thus held Twitter in contempt and imposed a $350,000 sanction for its delay.” The government also obtained a nondisclosure agreement prohibiting Twitter from disclosing the search warrant to Trump, the filing says. The court found that disclosing the warrant could risk that Trump would “would seriously jeopardize the ongoing investigation” by giving him “an opportunity to destroy evidence, change patterns of behavior,” per the filing.

    Smith has charged Trump, in an indictment unsealed last week, with conspiring to subvert the will of voters and cling to power after he lost the 2020 election to President Biden. Trump has pleaded not guilty to charges including conspiracy to defraud the United States and obstruction of Congress’ certification of Biden’s win. A spokesman for the special counsel’s office declined to comment on the warrant or what exactly it sought.

    Sammy Finkelman (d007a3)

  158. Well, they didn’t find anything.

    Source? Your link doesn’t say that.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  159. More on bad dogs (in the New York Times today)

    On Friday, Akiba Tripp was walking her seven-pound toy poodle, Baby, past the store when the owner opened the door and Syko lurched out, sank his teeth into Baby and broke her spine, Ms. Tripp said. Baby was euthanized that evening.

    The attack followed two others in May in which Syko and his siblings injured three other dogs, their owners said. In recent months, the proprietor’s German shepherds — five of them, including Syko’s parents — had spent time in the basement and the main area of the store.

    They terrorized people and dogs alike, according to several victims along with online reviews of the shop, which has an adjoining cafe.

    Syko’s reign of terror has now apparently ended. His owner, Lynda Hudson, said that on Saturday, Syko and her other four German shepherds moved permanently to her new house in Westchester County and would no longer come to the store…

    ….Ms. Tripp said that when she went to the local precinct, the police told her they could not do anything about dog-on-dog violence, but she plans to file a civil suit against Ms. Hudson.

    Ms. Hudson, 58, acknowledged that she was at her wit’s end with Syko. “I tried everything with this dog, sir,” she said. “I tried behaviorists, and training. He’s great with people but he does not like other dogs.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  160. At last someone says what I said about Joe Biden (not) firing the prosecutor.

    It was Holman W. Jenkins’ column today in the Wall Street Journal. He does say he said it before. This kind of thing is one reason I think the Wall Street Journal editorial pages are so good. You won’t see this somewhere else in the major news media.

    Now some of what he writes in this column is incoherent and confused (well, it’s hard to get things straight) but this part is good:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/impeaching-a-trump-impeachment-hunter-biden-partisan-investigation-ukraine-gop-election-847d972

    By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.
    Aug. 8, 2023 6:20 pm ET

    ….. Who sacked Ukraine’s prosecutor general in 2016 and why? This question is back thanks to congressional testimony by former Hunter Biden partner Devon Archer.

    Whatever happened, it wasn’t what Donald Trump said happened. It also wasn’t what Joe Biden said happened. His claim to have arranged the firing of prosecutor Viktor Shokin with an ultimatum to then-President Petro Poroshenko was just another Joe tall tale. Mr. Shokin’s dismissal came months later at the behest of several Western governments.

    Note: Petro Poroshenko is only mentioned in the beta version of Joe Biden’s story, published online to go with the August 2016 issue of the Atlantic. It has the flabbergasted U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. In the more widely known Q&A section of Joe Biden’s speech to the Council on Foreign Relations on January 23, 2018, Petroshenko isn’t mentioned only a cancelled, or nearly cancelled, press conference.

    Continuing

    But Mr. Archer’s testimony puts the kibosh on the simple tale told by Trump partisans that Mr. Shokin was canned to protect Joe and Hunter Biden. According to Mr. Archer, Mr. Shokin was valued by Ukraine’s leadership precisely because he kept a lid on the long-running investigation of Burisma, a gas company on whose board Hunter sat.

    This accords with my take at the time. Mr. Biden didn’t need to do anything. In fact, he was free, along with the European Union and other donors, to strike an anticorruption pose over Mr. Shokin because he knew Ukraine had every incentive to protect the Bidens.

    Whatever the reason for the firing, it certainly wasn’t for the purpose of making trouble for Burisma.

    He also says, like me, that Hunter Biden was selling the appearance of corruption:

    If so, Democrats now only have to defend a Hunter business scam of peddling an “illusion of access,” as party spinmeisters are putting it. Joe only has to be excused for insouciantly abetting the illusion with a few restaurant stop-bys, a few speakerphone chats about the weather, and by lending Hunter the trappings of the White House, Air Force Two, etc.

    That is, pending the failure of other evidence to pan out. Mr. Archer says that on one occasion at least, over drinks, Burisma founder Mykola Zlochevsky urged Hunter to “phone D.C.” on his behalf and Hunter did. An FBI informant says Mr. Zlochevsky claimed to have recorded calls with both Bidens and paid $10 million in bribes. The laptop evidence presents various complications too.

    My working assumption all along, though, has been that Joe Biden wasn’t so dumb as to do anything when he knew Hunter could extract millions for doing nothing.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  161. Of Hunter’s several windfalls, his Burisma earnings most directly leveraged his father’s role, most directly link to a specific act by his father (the Shokin firing), and provide the most direct credence to Mr. Trump’s first impeachment defense, concerning his phone call to President Zelensky fishing for information about Biden dealings in Ukraine.

    he’s forgetting that Trump’s question to Zelensky was whether what Biden said at Council on Foreign Relations was true.

    Zelensky knew it wasn’t true but didn’t want to disabuse Trump of the notion.

    Trump had been given to hear the recording through Giuliani who probably got it himself from what was ultimately Vladimir Putin’s spy agency – and Putin knew it wasn’t true also.

    And Biden’s statement was twisted into a statement that he caused the firing of the prosecutor in order to stop and investigation which somehow Trump did not notice (but Giuliani did) that Biden wasn’t saying.

    By the way this was a minor request (a favor) in that 2019 phone call. Trump’s main request was that people in Ukraine who he had been told had been against him in 2016 not be in his government. Trump did not know, because he was not keeping up in close contact with Giuliani, that Giuliani had already arranged that.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  162. The model also found that less new plastic finds its way to the ocean every year than previously thought — about half a million tonnes instead of four to 12 million tonnes — stemming largely from coastlines and fishing activity.

    Almost no plastic waste goes into the ocean from the 1st world. The US could eliminate it’s use of plastic and it would change nothing — it all comes from 2nd and 3rd world countries that find routine ocean dumping of trash to be an economic necessity.

    New York City was the last American jurisdiction that dumped its refuse in the ocean, and that ended in 1992, due to federal law.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  163. Ohio votes no on ballot access to prevent the protection of abortion rights. This will do to republicans what gun rights have done to democrats. Happy days are here again!

    asset (4f7d37)

  164. 61.,

    They couldn’t do it. They didn’t have the votes. Anywhere.

    Did you miss my word “IF”?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:30 pm

    That’s what I was disputing, There was no IF about it. In reality, there was no way they could pull off this coup – that year.

    Sammy Finkelman (1532a3)

  165. the jury did that necause leftists have decided that nonleftists deserve to be beaten by their brownshirts.

    I guess that’s happens when you only read right-wing garbage sites like Right Scoop, you get a distorted view of what happened, and then you call anyone a “moby” for disagreeing with your distorted view.

    The two defendants were Antifa but there was no evidence that they assaulted Ngo.

    While both activists admitted they had seen through the disguise and later posted on social media about Ngo’s whereabouts, neither physically assaulted the author as he made a wild flight for safety into a downtown hotel on May 28, 2021.

    Saying unkind words doesn’t count.
    There were three others who lost the case by default for not responding to the lawsuit, sorta like when Alex Jones refused to comply with discovery (funny how hard left and hard left converge on issues like this), and Ngo should get an award from them, if those nutjobs are somewhere on the grid.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  166. As I commented here a year ago.

    Donald Trump thinks out loud, talks too much, makes unforced errors and says stupid things into an open microphone. Now what public figure most resembles Trump? Why the current POTUS Joe Biden, of course. Everything about Trump–talks too much, says stupid things, etc. applies to Biden. Biden was fawned over at this site during the 2020 election.

    Biden and his family have been grifting for 50 years.

    Who is to blame for Trump’s rise? Namely the Republican “leaders” who refused to address the concerns of their voters. Instead Bush 43, McCain, Romney, Ryan and company advocated open borders, endless war, etc.

    I LOATHE Trump. Yes, the Republican voters are stupid for continuing to support him. It’s impossible for someone with multiple indictments to run for president. It’s a joke. Trump and Christie are accusing each other of being too fat.

    DN (c8d0a7)

  167. Mark Levin said on the radio less than five minutes ago that Joe Biden got the prosecutor fired. It’s all not true and in fact, impossible,

    Sammy Finkelman (1532a3)

  168. That’s what I was disputing, There was no IF about it. In reality, there was no way they could pull off this coup – that year.

    Sammy,

    When given a hypothetical, either ignore it or run with it. Saying it is unlikely is a “Captain Obvious” level of redundancy.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  169. It was just too impossible for the coup to succeed, even with a legal theory..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  170. 158. I wrote:

    Now what were they expecting to find? Secret co-ordination and planning for the storming of the Capitol? Or at least names in Direct Messages that could lead to other things?

    Or maybe just his public tweets, which were no longer available because his account was closed?

    This last is wrong. This was after Trump’s Twitter account had been restored.

    Twitter was subpoenaed in late January (and tossed out a few bad legal theories as to why it should be able to tell Trump) The response by the special counsel was boilerplate that does not give you a clue as to what they wanted. Twitter finally complied at 8:06 pm February 9, 2023)

    I think Jack Smith was probably looking for more solid proof than what was available from the public record that Donald Trump, or someone acting with his permission, had left those Twitter messages he wanted to cite as in furtherance of a conspiracy to overturn the election.

    Prosecutors like to nail down chain of custody type issues that many times nobody has any question about.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)


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