Patterico's Pontifications

6/8/2023

Donald Trump Indicted By DOJ

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:20 pm



[guest post by Dana]

NBC reports they have confirmed:

Former President Donald Trump has been indicted in federal court in Miami in connection with his retention of classified government documents he retained after leaving the White House.

Trump himself disclosed the indictment in a series of posts on his Truth Social social media site on Thursday evening. He also said he has been summoned to appear in court in Miami on Tuesday…

“I never thought it possible that such a thing could happen to a former President of the United States, who received far more votes than any sitting President in the History of our Country, and is currently leading, by far, all Candidates, both Democrat and Republican, in Polls of the 2024 Presidential Election,” Trump wrote.

“I AM AN INNOCENT MAN!This is indeed a DARK DAY for the United States of America,” he wrote.

Trump in his social media posts wrote: “The corrupt Biden Administration has informed my attorneys that I have been Indicted, seemingly over the Boxes Hoax, even though Joe Biden has 1850 Boxes at the University of Delaware, additional Boxes in Chinatown, D.C., with even more Boxes at the University of Pennsylvania, and documents strewn all over his garage floor where he parks his Corvette, and which is “secured” by only a garage door that is paper thin, and open much of the time.”

“We are a Country in serious and rapid Decline, but together we will Make America Great Again!”

And while Trump supporters like Josh Hawley are reacting to the news with dire warnings: “If the people in power can jail their political opponents at will, we don’t have a republic,” sound minds easily correct the misassumption about what is happening with Trump: “Fortunately that’s not what’s happening here. Trump will receive due process. He’ll get a trial. He’ll have the right to appeal. He’s arguably the most powerful criminal defendant in American history.”

—-Dana

157 Responses to “Donald Trump Indicted By DOJ”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (560c99)

  2. Indictment is sealed, so we don’t know whether this is about the actual possession of documents, or whether it is for obstructing the investigation. I think learning the exact nature of the charges will be very elucidating.

    And Trump is ignoring the advice from Andy McCarthy and trying to compare his case with Joe Biden’s mishandling of documents, when he ought to be focusing on the parallels of his case with Hillary Clinton’s. But it’s long been clear that he is the dumbest client a defense attorney could ever want.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  3. They’d better have what they need to make it stick, otherwise this will be an unmitigated catastrophe.

    One way or another, no matter the outcome, our country is permanently changed today.

    aphrael (a5b7d4)

  4. But it’s long been clear that he is the dumbest client a defense attorney could ever want.

    It’s beyond me why any lawyer would take him on as a client. Nothing good ever comes of it.

    Dana (560c99)

  5. According to NYT reporting, the indictment includes a conspiracy false statements charge, where prosecutors would need to show that Trump and at least one other person agreed to illegally mislead investigators and that they took at least some overt action to further that plan, conspiracy to obstruct justice, false statements and willful retention of documents.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  6. If the NYT reporting is correct, it is a stretch to compare this with the Biden documents, as Biden (and Pence) didn’t take any overt actions to conceal documents from the government but immediately invited the government to search their properties and reclaim any documents.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  7. I expect the special counsel investigating the Biden document case will come to the same conclusion as did the DOJ regarding the Pence documents.

    But then again, Biden can’t be charged with a crime as long as he is President.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  8. Hoarding classified documents (without the intent of selling them to a foreign government) has always been prosecuted. This case should be no different.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  9. @5

    According to NYT reporting, the indictment includes a conspiracy false statements charge, where prosecutors would need to show that Trump and at least one other person agreed to illegally mislead investigators and that they took at least some overt action to further that plan, conspiracy to obstruct justice, false statements and willful retention of documents.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2023 @ 5:44 pm

    That’s the Judge Bryle Howe angle in allowing the special counsel to use Trump’s former lawyer’s notes via the crime-exception clause piercing client privlege.

    If there’s any case of an overboard prosecution, it’s here where they’ll appeal.

    whembly (17b5e5)

  10. Meanwhile, the Biden family corruption continues with not a hint of any indictments, even of Hunter.

    edoc118 (f6616a)

  11. Do you believe in coincidence?

    I mean, the indictment of Trump is sucking up all the oxygen of the news.

    But, today we found out that whistleblower alleged on that FBI document that Joe Biden himself took a 5million dollar bribe from a Burisma executive:
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-allegedly-paid-5-million-by-burisma-executive

    If Trump wasn’t in the picture, this is earthshattering news.

    whembly (17b5e5)

  12. And so far Ratsaswarmy has come out with firm support for Trump, and Hutchinson has called on Trump to drop out. No surprise there.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  13. “I AM AN INNOCENT MAN!”

    At no time in his life.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  14. They’d better have what they need to make it stick, otherwise this will be an unmitigated catastrophe.

    From what I can see, they undercharged. What they alleged are palpable facts. He had classified documents illegally. He lied that he had them. He thwarted efforts to recover them, lying, moving them, and hiding them.

    These are all head-shots.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  15. Whembly,

    No.

    NJRob (6f21a0)

  16. @15

    Whembly,

    No.

    NJRob (6f21a0) — 6/8/2023 @ 6:39 pm

    Cool.

    Just making sure it wasn’t just me.

    whembly (17b5e5)

  17. Every time I jump down your “classified materials” rabbit hole, I find that it’s more than just “having some classified papers.”

    In the case of the guy serving 9 years, investigators found “50 terabytes of classified data within the residence, in an unlocked shed, and within Martin’s personal vehicle.” Unsecured. They were investigating him for a leak, which they could not prove.

    As I’ve said, there is always something more.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  18. Rip, did you overlook the irony of two of your back to back comments?

    I expect the special counsel investigating the Biden document case will come to the same conclusion as did the DOJ regarding the Pence documents.

    [. . .]

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2023 @ 5:51 pm (Edit)

    and

    Hoarding classified documents (without the intent of selling them to a foreign government) has always been prosecuted. This case should be no different.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2023 @ 5:55 pm (Edit)

    If it’s always been prosecuted then why is Pence being let off the hook? Why were Hillary and Huma Abedin given free passes, even though Ms. Abedin had them in a location where they could easily be accessed by a convicted sex fiend?

    I think you might want to re-think the assertion that these sort of things have always been prosecuted.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  19. I dunno whembly, a seven-count indictment in federal court by an experienced prosecutor versus unsubstantiated claims by an unnamed source who claims a big Biden payout where there doesn’t sound like there is any evidence. One doesn’t sound like much of a bombshell. You need substantiated evidence…not just gossip and anonymous accusations. Fox News is committed to the what-about.

    AJ_Liberty (eab65e)

  20. Hey, I would like to know why Trump took all this classified stuff and why he made it into such a big deal to hold onto it. It seems like the difference with Hillary…and Pence for that matter….is that they cooperated. They didn’t lie and obstruct, which suggests they didn’t have anything to hide. What’s Trump hiding?

    AJ_Liberty (eab65e)

  21. If it’s always been prosecuted then why is Pence being let off the hook? Why were Hillary and Huma Abedin given free passes, even though Ms. Abedin had them in a location where they could easily be accessed by a convicted sex fiend?

    I presume Biden and Pence had originally possessed their classified documents as part of their time as VO, and as I pointed out they fully cooperated with their investigators. Those who have been charged and sentenced to prison had no reason to possess the amounts of documents found in their possession.

    As far Hillary Clinton goes, I have always wondered why the Trump Administration never prosecuted her (or Huma Abedin), especially when he campaigned on “locking her up.”

    Rip Murdock (afd316)

  22. It seems like the difference with Hillary…and Pence for that matter….is that they cooperated. They didn’t lie and obstruct,

    Hillary Clinton deleted emails, tried to wipe the server clean, and destroyed devices. “New, undiscovered” email messages from her kept emerging well after she told investigator that her team had turned over every one of them. She was far from having cooperated, and I think there is a strong case to be made that she sought to obstruct the investigation. But the fix was always in for her.

    Guys, I am totally cool with the argument that Trump is a louse and ought to go to jail here. But please, let’s not rewrite history to pretend that his sins were all that different from Hillary Clinton’s, or that Her Clintonic Majesty was very cooperative in the investigation. It just ain’t gonna fly.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  23. Trying to post. Am I blocked?

    BuDuh (921160)

  24. Cool. I’ll post without the link and then again with the broken up link.

    Hey, I would like to know why Trump took all this classified stuff

    Maybe this?

    Memorandum on Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation

    BuDuh (921160)

  25. trum pwhiteho use.archives.g ov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation

    I am not defending any of Trump’s actions. Just looking for possible reasons.

    BuDuh (921160)

  26. Correction to post 21. Should be:

    I presume Biden and Pence had originally possessed their classified documents as part of their time as VO VP……….

    Rip Murdock (f2fe26)

  27. JVW (1ad43e) — 6/8/2023 @ 8:10 pm

    Why wasn’t HRC prosecuted by the Trump Administration?

    Rip Murdock (afd316)

  28. Why wasn’t HRC prosecuted by the Trump Administration?

    Here is a possible reason:

    President-elect Donald Trump said Tuesday he won’t pursue criminal charges against Hillary Clinton because it would divide the nation — and she’s already “suffered greatly.”

    “I don’t want to hurt the Clintons — I really don’t,” Trump said in an interview with the New York Times.

    “She went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways.”

    When asked whether he would pledge not to prosecute the former secretary of state, the president-elect said, “It’s just not something that I feel very strongly about.”

    The president-elect added he was also concerned about the impact after the bitter election.

    “I think it would be very divisive for the country,” he said.

    https://nypost.com/2016/11/23/why-trump-isnt-pursuing-charges-against-hillary-clinton/

    BuDuh (921160)

  29. So, at what point did Trump lose his mind?

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  30. Wait, you think Trump didn’t insist on prosecuting Hillary because he didn’t want to be divisive? Comey was a Republican for most of his adult life. Who orchestrated the fix?

    AJ_Liberty (eab65e)

  31. Clinton claimed to delete the emails because they were not work-related and she was told to only hand over work-related items. She admits that it was a mistake…and it likely cost her the election. Comey concluded that there was no evil intent or intent to obstruct. Part of this was based on emails retrieved that showed how her and others “talked around” classified information, recognizing that it was not permitted on her server.

    Still likely reckless and deserving of more of a sanction, but is it equivalent to Trump? Was Trump just making his “duties”….ahem, after he left the White House…easier by having his favorite few hundred classified documents hanging around? I’m willing to wait for the evidence and reserve my judgment on the comparison. I just think intent was different…..and I don’t think Trump just mistakenly held onto classified documents. A conspiracy charge suggests more….

    AJ_Liberty (eab65e)

  32. Hillary is one of the most investigated people in the country and she’s never even been charged with anything. She’s secretive and paranoid, but she doesn’t seem to be doing crime. That or she’s one of the smartest criminals who ever crimed.

    Nic (896fdf)

  33. Why wasn’t HRC prosecuted by the Trump Administration?

    It’s weird, but way back in 2016 it was considered “beyond the pale” to prosecute your defeated political opponent, especially when the previous administration — in which she worked and which had their own secrets they wanted to keep — had already absolved her of guilt. Listen, if it were up to me I would have still gone after her, but I’m a vindictive sonuvabitch who doesn’t like much of anybody in Washington DC.

    Do you really think it’s surprising that James Comey and Loretta Lynch let Hillary slide, and do you really believe that Jeff Sessions would have been able to re-open that investigation and actually bring charges against her without the entire Establishment going to DEFCON 1 on everybody?

    JVW (1ad43e)

  34. That or she’s one of the smartest criminals who ever crimed.

    Meyer Lansky was one of the most famous mob bosses in the history of this country, with gambling operations spanning from Los Angeles to Las Vegas to New Orleans to Miami to New York to Havana and beyond. He also almost certainly ordered, or at least rubber-stamped various murders, including of his friend Benjamin Siegel. Yet for all of that, the only thing he was ever busted for was illegal gambling as a youngster. So please don’t pretend that it’s a huge surprise that someone has dialed-in and ruthless as Hillary Clinton finds a way to beat the rap.

    (One interesting conjecture is that Lansky kept himself out of trouble because he had incriminating information regarding J. Edgar Hoover, the head of the FBI. Would it surprise you if Hillary Clinton doesn’t know what skeletons are in various high-ranking people’s closets?)

    JVW (1ad43e)

  35. Andy McCarthy, referring to the WaPo and the NYT but not indicating which one has this info, says that leaked information indicates that Trump is being charged with willfully retaining classified documents. He quotes what he believes is likely the statue in question (Sec 793, Title 18 of the Federal Criminal Code):

    Whoever, lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document … relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, … willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it [is guilty of a crime punishable by up to ten years’ imprisonment].

    In other words, Trump’s real trouble came when the FBI told him to hand over the documents and he replied, “No.” There’s more info at his post, which you should read. But this seems to answer the question as to how his case differs from Biden’s or Pence’s.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  36. If Trump wasn’t in the picture, this is earthshattering news.

    As I recall, this was the same allegation that AG Barr threw out in 2020 for lack of evidence.

    Robert Costa has a good thread on tonight’s events. Some excerpts…

    What I’m hearing… Trump is frustrated not just with the indictment but with people in his inner circle who reassured him for months that it was very unlikely to happen… source close to Trump says “too much happy talk for way too long” about what could happen [this sounds similar to how Putin is getting his briefings]
    […]
    “Why the f— has he been so quiet?” one Trump ally fumed in recent days. Confusion about whether Meadows has cut a deal or not, lots of guessing about what his attorney, George Terwilliger, is telling him to do as he faces mounting pressure on Jan. 6 case (remember the texts).
    […]
    Learning lots of new info as of 10 p.m. ET tonight… this is a grave, serious case in the eyes of many law-enforcement sources… those who know Jack Smith say he would NEVER bring charges of this nature unless he had tons of testimony and evidence and is convinced he will win.

    According to a former federal prosecutor, proving obstruction is very difficult and to bring this charge likely means there is a lot of specific evidence in the hands of the special counsel. He is described as someone who would hesitate to bring that charge unless it was nailed.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  37. james watt who called beach boy music decadent and replace them with wayne newton dies at least he will have company pat robertson died too. sign in d.c. jail bubba and abdullah welcomes trump to their jail!

    asset (4122b6)

  38. @JVW@34 I don’t think she is as dialed in as you say. The Clintons are new money in the political world. They aren’t the Kennedys, they aren’t the Bushes, they aren’t even the Romneys. Neither came from powerful or networked families of any sort. They don’t have the generations of social network and alliances in government, business, or crime that it takes to cover up as much stuff as she’s been accused of covering up. Yes, they made allies along the way, but it isn’t that deep. The “Clinton Machine” and Hillary have been exaggerated into boogiemen when really Bill was talented and Hillary was smart and together they only made one relatively skilled and effective politician.

    Nic (896fdf)

  39. The sad and pathological thing about this is…all Trump had to do was return all the materials NARA requested, and then comply with a subpoena, and that would’ve been the end of it. The story would’ve lasted one or two news cycles and then be a thing of the past.
    But weirdly, Trump’s pride or ego or delusion or all of the above caused him to choose to disregard the law and law enforcement. It really is pathological and never should have happened. But Trump was the f-cking idiot who obstructed instead of cooperated.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  40. Since fbi has evidence (but with holding it) that burisma gave $5 million to joe biden if he and pence are not indicted now that trump is. Interesting as mr. spock says to see what the trumpsters do.

    asset (4122b6)

  41. The reactions by the candidates to Trump’s indictment were pathetic, even Christie’s, except for Asa.

    With the news that Donald Trump has been indicted for the second time, our country finds itself in a position that weakens our democracy. Donald Trump’s actions—from his willful disregard for the Constitution to his disrespect for the rule of law—should not define our nation or the Republican Party. This is a sad day for our country. While Donald Trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence, the ongoing criminal proceedings will be a major distraction. This reaffirms the need for Donald Trump to respect the office and end his campaign.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  42. That was a quick fact-check turnaround, but most of Trump’s lies in his video last night were recycled.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  43. The reactions by the candidates to Trump’s indictment were pathetic, even Christie’s, except for Asa.

    Of course. Trump’s voters are on the table again.

    nk (fb6233)

  44. Asa has 0.4% support, according the RCP average. Republicans don’t like Republicans who speak truth to power and bullying and criminal behavior.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  45. What worries me, really, is the Democrats. They’re dead set on giving us a Chernenko with a Gorbachev in the wings. Because I don’t see a Republican next term no matter who.

    nk (fb6233)

  46. @19

    I dunno whembly, a seven-count indictment in federal court by an experienced prosecutor versus unsubstantiated claims by an unnamed source who claims a big Biden payout where there doesn’t sound like there is any evidence. One doesn’t sound like much of a bombshell. You need substantiated evidence…not just gossip and anonymous accusations. Fox News is committed to the what-about.

    AJ_Liberty (eab65e) — 6/8/2023 @ 7:36 pm

    I mean, I get your point.

    But, I’m struck with this: Take the Biden and Trump name out of the equation for a moment.

    A) A former POTUS is indicted on serious crime by current POTUS and likely opponent in next election.

    B) Current POTUS is also faced with strong, credible bribery allegations that his adminstration has tried like the dickens to downplay.

    Both are bad.

    Both are earthshattering, imo.

    It’s sad that it’s only A) that’s dominating everything because it’s Trump.

    whembly (d116f3)

  47. @33

    Why wasn’t HRC prosecuted by the Trump Administration?

    It’s weird, but way back in 2016 it was considered “beyond the pale” to prosecute your defeated political opponent, especially when the previous administration — in which she worked and which had their own secrets they wanted to keep — had already absolved her of guilt. Listen, if it were up to me I would have still gone after her, but I’m a vindictive sonuvabitch who doesn’t like much of anybody in Washington DC.

    Do you really think it’s surprising that James Comey and Loretta Lynch let Hillary slide, and do you really believe that Jeff Sessions would have been able to re-open that investigation and actually bring charges against her without the entire Establishment going to DEFCON 1 on everybody?

    JVW (1ad43e) — 6/8/2023 @ 9:33 pm

    This… all of this.

    We all criticize Trump for is norm-breaking behaviors. But please don’t ignore Trump’s opponent’s own norm-breaking behaviors eithers.

    whembly (d116f3)

  48. JVW and whembly, the Trump administration twice tried to nail Hillary, the first attempt under Tillerson and the next under Pompeo. I didn’t post this link earlier because blue is my favorite color.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  49. Mitt Romney would probably get as much support as Hutchinson or Christie if he ran, but it don’t mean he’s wrong.

    “Like all Americans, Mr. Trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence. The government has the burden of proving its charges beyond a reasonable doubt and securing a unanimous verdict by a South Florida jury.

    “By all appearances, the Justice Department and special counsel have exercised due care, affording Mr. Trump the time and opportunity to avoid charges that would not generally have been afforded to others.

    “Mr. Trump brought these charges upon himself by not only taking classified documents, but by refusing to simply return them when given numerous opportunities to do so.

    “These allegations are serious and if proven, would be consistent with his other actions offensive to the national interest, such as withholding defensive weapons from Ukraine for political reasons and failing to defend the Capitol from violent attack and insurrection.”

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  50. @JVW@34 I don’t think she is as dialed in as you say.

    Well, if you look at the Washington establishment, especially among Democrats, there certainly are a lot of people who either:

    (1) went to law school with Bill or Hillary (though admittedly, these people are now in their mid-70s) or else

    (2) worked in some capacity in the Clinton Administration or Obama Administration, or else

    (3) were major donors to Clinton or the Clinton Global Initiative.

    And many of those in the above categories have mentored younger people who currently work in Washington, so indeed, I think their reach into the levers of power is way more extensive than you want to believe.

    JVW (721d52)

  51. President-elect Donald Trump said Tuesday he won’t pursue criminal charges against Hillary Clinton because it would divide the nation….

    LOL!

    do you really believe that Jeff Sessions would have been able to re-open that investigation

    If Trump ordered him, yes.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  52. It’s weird, but way back in 2016 it was considered “beyond the pale” to prosecute your defeated political opponent….

    Congress should just pass a law prohibiting the prosecution of former presidents, vice presidents, and presidential nominees. I’m sure it would get bipartisan support.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  53. The problem isn’t that mistakes were made and his political rivals are crucifying Trump for process fouls. First, Jack Smith isn’t exactly a Democrat pit-bull. He’s an equal opportunity prosecutor, not exactly known for over-charging defendants or treating them unfairly. Merrick Garland isn’t signing off on anything here.

    Second, as Romney states, Trump had multiple opportunities to simply turn things over. Again, this is either super-sized hubris, gross incompetence, or malicious intent…or some combination of the three. I mean it’s almost sociopathic that Trump produced an audio tape of him admitting to having a classified military document that he was describing to an uncleared gathering. This is just not normal behavior. On one hand, maybe this shows reckless intent versus malicious intent, but on the other hand, if he doesn’t understand that this is wrong, what else might he be doing?

    We just can’t have the leader of the free world so oblivious to right and wrong — legal and ethical constraints, because Romney is correct, you end up with someone who doesn’t intercede to stop the Capitol rioters and someone who pressures Ukraine to dig up dirt on his rival. The whole exercise of equivocation continues to miss the point. The GOP does not need Trump. Georgia and J6 are coming next. At what point does the party lose all credibility?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  54. “The process is the punishment.”

    ingot9455 (46f6e9)

  55. Let’s see how things turned out:

    Predictions….

    How do you think the non-Trump Republican presidential primary candidates will react to Trump’s indictment? Here are my guesses:

    A. Outrage at the indictment, Un-American, a “dangerous moment”, “politically motivated” etc.-DeSantis, Ramaswamy, Elder

    B. Deploring the “sad state of affairs” but not challenging Trump to withdraw

    C. What indictment?-Scott

    D. Trump should immediately withdraw-Hutchinson, Christie

    E. Who knows?-Burgum

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2023 @ 9:02 am

    A. Outrage at the indictment, Un-American, a “dangerous moment”, “politically motivated”, weaponization, will pardon Trump, etc.-DeSantis, Ramaswamy, Elder, Scott Check.

    B. Deploring the “sad state of affairs” but not challenging Trump to withdraw-Pence, Haley Haley fails because of her silence, she should have had a generic statement given that this has in the news for weeks. Check.

    C. What indictment?-Scott Wrong. Sad.

    D. Trump should immediately withdraw-Hutchinson, Christie I’ll Christie the benefit of the doubt given his strong announcement statement. Check.

    E. Who knows?-Burgum Check.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  56. As I recall, this was the same allegation that AG Barr threw out in 2020 for lack of evidence.

    Uh, no, your recollection is entirely wrong, Paul Montagu. Absolutely no. You’re confusing Jamie Raskin’s “strategic untruths” with what actually happened here:

    With Rep. Adam Schiff busy running for the Senate, House Democrats needed someone else to play Pinocchio, and the winner is Maryland’s Jamie Raskin.

    Raskin just got called out for lying about a trusted FBI informant’s allegations that Joe Biden accepted a $5 million bribe while serving as vice president.

    The FBI closed the case years ago, he claimed after a confidential briefing by the bureau’s chief.

    Specifically, Raskin insisted that then-US Attorney General Bill Barr “determined there was no grounds to escalate from an initial assessment to a preliminary investigation” and “called an end” to any probe because there was no suspicion of “criminal activity.”

    Oops: “It’s not true,” Barr soon announced.

    “It wasn’t closed down. On the contrary, it was sent to Delaware for further investigation.”

    JVW (10ec5a)

  57. Things are moving fast.
    One, it would be a travesty if Trump-appointed Judge Cannon is assigned to the case. This is the same judge who was overturned by a three-judge 11th Circuit panel (two Trump appointees and one Obama appointee), saying that “the district court abused its discretion”. I would hope that the DOJ files an objection if she actually is the judge from here on out.

    Two, two more rats lawyers are jumping Trump’s legal ship.

    Three, Trump’s aide Mr. Nauta was just indicted for conspiracy.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  58. Okay, JVW, I’ll just say what I’ve said prior: All I’ve seen is allegation and no evidence that Joe Biden got this money.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  59. All I’ve seen is allegation and no evidence that Joe Biden got this money.

    Fair enough. But with a sealed indictment, all you’ve seen thus far is allegation and no evidence that Donald Trump willfully kept classified documents. But that doesn’t mean that your own intuition can’t lead you to assume you that it’s true.

    JVW (e938a2)

  60. Trump loses two lawyers just hours after being indicted
    ……….
    Jim Trusty and John Rowley, who helmed Trump’s Washington, D.C.-based legal team for months and were seen frequently at the federal courthouse, indicated they would no longer represent Trump in matters being investigated and prosecuted by special counsel Jack Smith, who is probing both the documents matter and efforts by Trump to subvert the 2020 election.
    ……….
    In their place, Trump indicated that Todd Blanche — an attorney he recently retained to help fight unrelated felony charges brought by Manhattan district attorney Alvin Bragg in April — would lead his legal team, along with a firm to be named later. Trump and his team have liked Blanche, who is expected to play a more elevated, central role.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  61. Comer needs to release the FBI’s informant’s statement.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. 56. It’s mostly vague criticism of the indictment, which is actually often par for the course by Republicans on many issues (debt, 5border crossers)

    Of course the indictment is still sealed but it seems to be mostly about obstruction of the document recovery, and lying. With maybe one count of willfully retaining national defense information, probably based on that July 2021 recorded interview with the ghostwriters for Mark Meadows at which Trump waved around a document and said it would prove who wanted war with Iran but said it was classified and he regretted he hadn’t declassified it but he couldn’t show it to them,

    The indictment will be unsealed on Tuesday – Trump revealed that his lawyers had been informed, and one Trump lawyer told CNN there were seven counts and there have been earlier leaks about what it might contain.

    . Reporters were standing around the ourthouse and saw the grand jury report to the judge at about 3:45 pm and some minutes later they were told they had left.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  63. …all you’ve seen thus far is allegation and no evidence that Donald Trump willfully kept classified documents.

    C’mon, JVW. There’s literally photographic evidence from the FBI search, and the only reason they applied for and received a warrant was because Trump refused to turn over all the documents, despite his lawyer’s certification, and as evidenced by the 100 classified documents came from the fruit of the search, and those documents were faithfully logged by the FBI and examined by the Special Master.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  64. On Trump indictment, Senate GOP leaders silent while top House Republicans vow payback
    ……….
    While the charges have yet to be unsealed, the top two Republicans in the Senate, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and Minority Whip John Thune have not put out statements, a stark contrast to the swift reaction among House GOP leaders who quickly rushed to Trump’s defense.

    “Today is indeed a dark day for the United States of America. It is unconscionable for a President to indict the leading candidate opposing him. Joe Biden kept classified documents for decades,” House Speaker Kevin McCarthy tweeted Thursday night. “I, and every American who believes in the rule of law, stand with President Trump against this grave injustice. House Republicans will hold this brazen weaponization of power accountable.”
    ………
    The third ranking GOP senator, John Barrasso of Wyoming, put out a statement Friday, saying, “This indictment certainly looks like an unequal application of justice.”
    ……..
    Meanwhile, top House Republicans took swift aim at the Department of Justice, special counsel Jack Smith, the FBI and Attorney General Merrick Garland in the wake of the indictment.

    “We ought to defund and dismantle the DOJ,” ultra-conservative Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona tweeted shortly after Trump announced the news on Truth Social.

    House Majority Leader Steve Scalise immediately rushed to Trump’s defense, attacking the Justice Department over his indictment and vowing to hold the administration accountable.
    ………
    “It is time for Congress to rein in the FBI and DOJ, and impeach President Biden, Attorney General Garland, and (FBI Director Christopher Wray),” Georgia Republican Rep. Mike Collins said in a statement.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  65. JVW:

    Would you agree with my proposal here?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  66. If Trump wasn’t in the picture, this is earthshattering news.

    Now, whose fault is it that Trump is always in the picture? I’m sure he’s already taped the elegy for his own funeral.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  67. Haley, quoted in the Washington Examiner:

    “This is not how justice should be pursued in our country,” Haley said Friday in her first public comments on Trump’s legal woes. “The American people are exhausted by the prosecutorial overreach, double standards, and vendetta politics.”

    Yet Haley noted that the public, like some Republicans running for president, is itching to move forward in a post-Trump manner. “It’s time to move beyond the endless drama and distractions,” she added.

    I don’t really see this as a defense of Trump as much as it is an attack on Biden’s DoJ. And I am encouraged by her return to the idea of a post-Trump world without all the drama and distractions.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  68. It’s not so much that Trump isn’t guilty (he is), but that the DoJ doesn’t seem to see any Democrats’ crimes at all. When the House finds Wray in contempt, I doubt that there will be a prosecution like they did with GOP officials in the last Congress.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  69. “As president, I could have declassified, but now I can’t.”
    –Donald J. Trump, busted dead to rights, 2021, Bedminster NJ

    They can’t even that the recording is illegal because NJ isn’t a two-party consent state.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  70. Is the Chairman of the Senate Republican Conference considered a “Senate GOP leader?”

    https://twitter.com/SenJohnBarrasso/status/1667194427125669888

    BuDuh (921160)

  71. Whatever Republicans may think of the DoJ, and whatever political considerations there are in attacking it for bias and double standards, the fact is that the federal charges against Trump are in no way comparable to the ludicrous (and wildly overcharged) NY case.

    That said, I can see Trump escaping these federal charges — the court is going to have a hard time avoiding willful jury nullifiers.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  72. As has been explained above, there are vast differences between Biden and Pence’s accidental retention of documents and Trump’s willful and obstinate actions.

    But when the Democrat DoJ looked at Hillary’s gross negligence (to put it kindly) and said that “no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case”, one has to ask what happened to all those reasonable prosecutors?

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  73. Is the Chairman of the Senate Republican Conference considered a “Senate GOP leader?”

    No. 3-And my excerpt included his statement.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  74. To be clear, I was pretty adamant at the time that Hillary should be prosecuted for gross negligence and mishandling TS and TS:SCI documents. It still frosts me that she skated.

    I also think that Trump’s case, while of a lesser nature, deserves prosecution. But the different outcome wrt Hillary is hard to ignore.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  75. The problem with much of these conspiracy theories is that they get gassed pretty quickly upon inspection. Pressure to fire Shokin did not just come from Biden. This was the position of not just the administration but European diplomats, the IMF, and other agencies. Did they all get $5M?

    Shokin’s office had investigated Burisma, but for actions in 2010-2012, prior to when Hunter Biden arrived in 2014. Shokin took over in 2015 and there was no current investigation of Burisma that required Biden to shield his son from.

    Biden, again with the support of the Obama administration, European diplomats, and the IMF, did withhold $1B in aid to pressure Ukraine to move on from Shokin. Somehow this gets painted only as “Biden’s policy” and of course then we need the obligatory quid pro quo. Here, this secret payoff by a company that was not even being actively investigated. A payoff that only Biden and his son received…that apparently was so complex…..that it will evade scrutiny for the next decade….or of course the FBI is shielding him.

    Again, it’s kind of ridiculous…and you see it being led by Boebert and MTG in Congress. And I guess we’re supposed to lap it up.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  76. Haley, quoted in the Washington Examiner:

    It took her long enough to concoct a statement that says nothing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  77. I didn’t catch that, Rip. Thanks!

    BuDuh (921160)

  78. It wasn’t even aid, AJ, it was $1 billion in loan guarantees.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  79. But when the Democrat DoJ looked at Hillary’s gross negligence (to put it kindly) and said that “no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case”……..

    Again, the FBI Director (generally) doesn’t make prosecutorial decisions. It should have been left to the incoming administration to decide if she should have been charged. In the end Comey’s statements did more harm than good to HRC.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  80. Uh-oh

    Judge Aileen M. Cannon is scheduled to preside over that initial hearing, according to people familiar with the matter. It was not clear whether Judge Cannon, who was criticized by a higher court for handing him a series of unusually favorable rulings during the early stages of the investigation, would remain assigned for the entirety of Mr. Trump’s case.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  81. I also think that Trump’s case, while of a lesser nature, deserves prosecution.

    We don’t know if the charges against Trump are of a “lesser nature.” Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  82. @76:

    It may all be BS, but your argument doesn’t work. Biden may have been acting to help his son’s then-current business with Burisma, which would be helped by killing any investigation of past activities.

    And no, not everyone got $5 million, but if Biden had demanded it, his influence was enough to warrant it. It probably would have come out of Hunter’s end, but whatever.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  83. Joe Biden was only the vice president then! Somebody could have lied to Burisma then, but more likely the whole thing is Russian disinformation, designed to protect the true recipients of the $10 million. Ukraine had just accused other people of being the recipient(s)

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  84. To bring criminal charges, there had to be evidence that Clinton intentionally transmitted or willfully mishandled classified information. There was never any classified information found in her emails.

    Trump’s recording shows he was retaining one or more Secret/classified documents that he knew he should not have, but kept anyway. That shows willful and intentional

    DRJ (fd3827)

  85. We don’t know if the charges against Trump are of a “lesser nature.” Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Both were willful, both delayed recovery and/or destroyed evidence. Hillary had held documents as a matter of course, and in a vulnerable electronic form. Were they more important? We will never know. Were they more numerous? We will also never know.

    Did Hillary obstruct justice? She’s a lawyer so she probably skated along the edge, she did that for months, and she may crossed the line in a way that was never going to be proved. Trump, being a willful idiot, took no such care.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  86. The indictment was just unsealed. There will be lots more to follow.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  87. Conservative Pundits React to Trump Indictment: ‘The Police State’s Here’
    ……….
    “If the Department of Justice gets its way, [Trump] will die in federal prison,” Fox News host Mark Levin told Sean Hannity on Thursday evening. “Just by one of these counts – conspiracy to obstruct justice, which has a 20-year maximum sentence. This is a disgusting, disgusting mark on American history, for the future to come by these bandits in the White House, by the Democrat party. They don’t play fair anymore.”
    ……….
    “(AG Merrick Garland) made the decision to indict the former president and they made the decision to interfere in this election! You wanna talk about an insurrection?! This! Is! An insurrection! And that’s exactly what’s going on here!” he yelled.
    ……….
    “The police state’s here now,” (former Fox News host Dan Bongino declared on Newsmax). “The idea that you live in a constitutional republic — take it, wipe your rump with it, and flush it down the toilet bowl because that’s gone.”
    ………
    “I feel like he was the nominee before, but I agree with you (that the “left” has guaranteed Trump’s nomination),” (Kari Lake told former Trump Administration official Sebastian Gorka), going on to call on other 2024 Republican nominee hopefuls to suspend their campaigns to show support for Trump.
    ………
    “I have an absolute constitutional right to vote against Trump for the third time, and I don’t want anybody to deny me that right by indicting him falsely,” (Alan Dershowitz said on One America News).
    …………

    Fat chance of the other Republican candidates suspending their campaigns in support of Trump. And the Dersh can still vote for Trump even if Trump is indicted, convicted, and serving time in prison.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  88. There was never any classified information found in her emails.

    This is widely disputed, and ignores the classification level of information at the time she stored it. Things she had were later declassified.

    And really, anything that comes out of Lanny Davis’ mouth is a lie.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  89. I understanding wanting to equate the Ttump prosecution with not prosecuting Hillary. But Hillary did not have classified information, and the other politicians who did have classified documents (like a reasonable basis to argue documents were retained inadvertently (careless, not intentional).

    Trump’s recording makes it hard to argue it was not classified and inadvertent.

    So I wonder: Did they ever find the Iran documents?

    DRJ (fd3827)

  90. That was Comey’s statement, Kevin, and he was not Hillarys buddy.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  91. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2023 @ 10:43 am

    More Pundit Reaction:

    “Game on,” said John Fredericks, a pro-Trump talk radio host popular in Georgia and Virginia, when a reporter read him Trump’s social media posts announcing the charges. “Indict away. Every indictment we get more emboldened, we get stronger, we get more votes, because working people in this country are on to their game. Trump will be the nominee, and he will win an overwhelming victory regardless of the number of witch-hunt indictments that the communists and the liberals try to push on him.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  92. Guys, do me a favor. Stop with all the dog-bites-man stuff. Of course Keri Lake and MTG and their ilk are going to support their cult leader in all things and everything they say will be deranged. It’s not worth your time, and it’s certainly not worth mine.

    Just like Schiff and Rankin and other members of the hard Left cult are going to be pontificating on how “no one is above the law.” It’s something that ChatGPT could write.

    Far more interesting is how it plays in Peoria.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  93. That was Comey’s statement, Kevin, and he was not Hillarys buddy.

    Replied Comey: “That would be a reasonable inference.” 

    That’s right: James Comey said under oath that not even one out of 33,000 Hillary Clinton emails would be recognized by a classification expert as classified. 

    This is obviously not the same thing.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  94. Hillary was extremely careless, sloppy, and stupid in handling things as she did. It might have been indictable in today’s world, and I have no problem with that. But I doubt Trump would have been indicted without this smoking gun recording that shows he did it willfully.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  95. High federal officials can always claim any mishandling of documents was inadvertent, especially given the sheer volume of material they see. It probably is. The hard part of any prosecution is showing it was done intentionally or willfully, with knowledge it was classified.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  96. WaPo fact check:
    Hillary Clinton’s claim that ‘zero emails’ were marked classified

    It’s rather complicated.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  97. Correcting comment 90:

    … the other politicians who did have classified documents (like Pence) have a reasonable basis to argue documents were retained inadvertently (careless, not intentional).

    DRJ (fd3827)

  98. Thank you for the fact check:

    Clinton, in her tweet, suggests none of her emails were marked classified. That’s technically correct. Whether those emails contained classified information was a major focus of the investigation, but a review of the recent investigations, including new information obtained by the Fact Checker, shows Clinton has good reason for making a distinction with Trump.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  99. Indictment text.

    Counts 1-31: Willful Retention of National Defense Information 18 USC 793(e)

    Count 32: Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice 18 USC 1512(k)

    Counts 33-34: Withholding A Document or Record 18 USC 1512(b)(2)(A) 2)

    Count 35: Concealing a Document in a Federal Investigation 1 8USC 1519, 2)

    Count 36: Scheme to Conceal 18 USC 1001( a)( 1), 2)

    Counts 37-38: False Statements and Representations 18 USC 1001(a)(2) , 2)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  100. None were marked classified.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  101. But I doubt Trump would have been indicted without this smoking gun recording that shows he did it willfully.

    Her email server in her bathroom with no security to speak of was IN AND OF ITSELF a crime, which she committed willfully.

    Now, why did she do this? Also a crime. Federal law requires that all official electronic communication be logged and recorded on government servers. She did not want such a paper trail, so she used an off-the-books email address and her own server (since a commercial account could be subpoenaed).

    This is a violation of the same records law that Trump is being accused of violating,, and the violation is in the 100s or thousands of records. For Hillary to claim that this was an innocent mistake is risible.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  102. * 100s OF thousands

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  103. None were marked classified.

    As stored.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  104. “gross negligence and mishandling TS and TS:SCI documents….But the different outcome wrt Hillary is hard to ignore.”

    Nothing stopped Trump from pushing for a special prosecutor and impaneling a grand jury. We have to somehow pretend that James Comey’s recommendation was the final assessment on Hillary’s matter. If the GOP wanted her indicted, then they should have pushed for it. Instead, now we get this “Deep State” meme where Trump is such a victim. After pushing the “lock her up” meme and being given ample opportunity to turn over his classified documents, he chose to withhold and obstruct. The details may be different enough that it doesn’t scream prosecutorial discretion. We should probably wait until we see Smith’s arguments…the degree of obstruction and chutzpah might be noteworthy.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  105. @100:

    Thanks Rip. Reading it now.

    Pp. 6 a & b should be a problem for Trump. That is unlawful dissemination which makes the case quite different.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  106. Nothing stopped Trump from pushing for a special prosecutor and impaneling a grand jury. We have to somehow pretend that James Comey’s recommendation was the final assessment on Hillary’s matter. If the GOP wanted her indicted, then they should have pushed for it. Instead, now we get this “Deep State” meme where Trump is such a victim. After pushing the “lock her up” meme and being given ample opportunity to turn over his classified documents, he chose to withhold and obstruct. The details may be different enough that it doesn’t scream prosecutorial discretion. We should probably wait until we see Smith’s arguments…the degree of obstruction and chutzpah might be noteworthy.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/9/2023 @ 11:07 am

    Other than all those screaming that the DOJ is an independent branch and Trump should be impeached for trying to influence them.

    Now, not so much.

    NJRob (762bec)

  107. Trump’s body man (Nauta) also indicted.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  108. Rob, I don’t see that Biden needed to tell Smith to indict. Trump’s actions were clumsy and criminal.

    The issue is really why Hillary’s clear attempts to circumvent federal laws regarding government information, classified or not — as a rule, not an exception — was not prosecuted.

    But this is a political question, not legal one. Whaddabout has no place in court.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  109. Thanks Rip. Reading it now.

    Pp. 6 a & b should be a problem for Trump. That is unlawful dissemination which makes the case quite different.

    Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/9/2023 @ 11:11 am

    I updated the summary on the Weekend Open thread to include the charges against Trump’s valet.

    Rip Murdock (afd316)

  110. If the description of the recording in the indictment is accurate, that’s the whole ball game, right there.

    I have to admit that the cynical part of me expected this but i’m *still* shocked.

    aphrael (b60ebf)

  111. > In July 2021, at Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey ( The Bedminster Club ), during an audio- recorded meeting with a writer,
    a publisher, and two members of his staff, none of whom possessed a security clearance, TRUMP showed and described a plan of attack that TRUMP said was prepared for him by the Department of Defense and a
    senior military official. TRUMP told the individuals that the plan was highly confidential and secret. TRUMP also said, as presidentI could have declassified it, and, Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.

    aphrael (b60ebf)

  112. The storage of boxes at Mar-a-Lago is obscene. Out in the open and available to, well, anyone during crowded events. Not to mention workers and staff who likely did not have clearances.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  113. Prediction: Unless Trump covers his defense costs, his valet will fold quickly.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  114. Trump in 2016 on Protecting Classified Info: “No One Will Be Above the Law”
    ………
    “On political corruption, we are going to restore honor to our government,” Trump said at a North Carolina rally in August 2016, while first campaigning for president. “In my administration, I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.”

    “One of the first things we must do is to enforce all classification rules and to enforce all laws relating to the handling of classified information,” he said a month later at a Pennsylvania rally.
    ………
    “That is the most confidential stuff,” Trump said in 2017, after calls between him and foreign governments, as well as communications between soon-to-be national security adviser Michael Flynn and foreign governments, were leaked. “Classified. That’s classified. You go to prison when you release stuff like that.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  115. They do not seem to have charged Trump with dissemination.

    I can see Nauta agreeing to testify to avoid jail.

    Counts 33-35 were what Sandy Berger did.

    If convicted, Trump would do hard time. There is really no way around it.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  116. Prediction: Unless Trump covers his defense costs, his valet will fold quickly.

    I don’t see how that would help as 1) they have him dead to rights on the false statements, and 2) taking it to trial would lead to a harsh sentence tempered only by the harshness of Trump’s sentence.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  117. “Biden may have been acting to help his son’s then-current business with Burisma, which would be helped by killing any investigation of past activities.”

    This is nonsense. There was NO investigation of Burisma when Shokin was fired. The matter from 2010-2012 had already been resolved. It’s not like this stuff is hidden somewhere

    “And no, not everyone got $5 million, but if Biden had demanded it, his influence was enough to warrant it.”

    So it still makes sense that Burisma would pay $10M to get rid of a prosecutor not investigating them….when the EU and IMF also wants that prosecutor gone. Wouldn’t it make more sense that the recipient of the loan guarantee would be the one getting blackmailed? Of course, that doesn’t make sense practically either. How about come up with a narrative that actually comports with what we know?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  118. Kevin M at 117 – if they can get the valet to testify against Trump, that makes it even harder for Trump to avoid hard time.

    aphrael (b60ebf)

  119. Prediction: Unless Trump covers his defense costs, his valet will fold quickly.

    I don’t see how that would help as 1) they have him dead to rights on the false statements, and 2) taking it to trial would lead to a harsh sentence tempered only by the harshness of Trump’s sentence.

    Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/9/2023 @ 11:31 am

    It is obvious that Walt Nauta stayed loyal to Trump, and the indictment is the thanks he gets. Now that he faces a multi-count indictment that will cost thousands of dollars to defend. He has a choice: he can plead guilty and testify against Trump, (especially if he can’t afford to defend himself at trial) or Trump could stand by him and cover his defense costs. The charges he shares with Trump (counts 33-36) have a maximum sentence of 20 years each.

    Which one is more likely?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  120. The key language in the Espionage Act is the “willful retention” of “materials relating to the national defense”. This doesn’t preclude that Hillary ran across national defense materials, but she was State Department, not DoD.
    BTW, my opinion hasn’t changed that she should’ve been indicted for “gross negligence”. The existence of her home-brewed server should’ve been enough, but I don’t see how that compares to Trump’s multiple crimes and fairly blatant obstruction. Fer cryin’ out loud, he stored boxes of presidential records, some of them likely containing classified materials, in his freaking ballroom.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  121. Giuliani: What’s missing here is any harm to the United States.

    …that anyone who could harm the United States got anywhere near thedse documents.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  122. we have an allegation that soome documents were taken to Bedminster so that his attorneys wouldn;t find them.

    We have interpretation of sign language,

    We have a lawyer’s notes being quoted that Trump asked if he had to return themm – you;re allowed to ask your lawyers questions like thaat says Greg Kelly.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  123. More House Reaction:

    ……….
    Representative Elise Stefanik of New York, the No. 3 G.O.P. leader, suggested that the charges, which were brought by a special counsel who for months has examined Mr. Trump’s handling of classified documents, were timed to distract from House Republicans’ investigation into Mr. Biden’s family.

    “The exact same day that the F.B.I. is forced to turn over to Congress absolutely damning and credible allegations regarding Joe Biden’s illegal, egregious, and treasonous corruption, Joe Biden weaponizes his Department of Justice to indict Donald Trump,” Ms. Stefanik said on Friday.
    ……..
    “WITCH HUNT,” was posted on the Twitter account of the Republican-led House Judiciary Committee within minutes of news of the indictment becoming public.
    ……..
    One member of Congress, Representative Clay Higgins, Republican of Louisiana, hinted at a major backlash, in a cryptic tweet that appeared to refer to Mr. Trump as the true American president — “rPOTUS,” an acronym sometimes used by his supporters for “real president of the United States” — referenced the scale used in military maps, and told his followers to “buckle up.”
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  124. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/9/2023 @ 11:31 am

    How about come up with a narrative that actually comports with what we know?

    Russian intelligence doesn’t usually do this.

    They knew and know, the allegation that Biden got a bribe was wrong, but they should not have kept it from Congressional oversight..

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  125. The entire Republican party needs to burn down for their reaction to this.

    aphrael (b60ebf)

  126. Representative Elise Stefanik of New York, the No. 3 G.O.P. leader, suggested that the charges, which were brought by a special counsel who for months has examined Mr. Trump’s handling of classified documents, were timed to distract from House Republicans’ investigation into Mr. Biden’s family.

    Maybe it was tthe other way around.

    House Republicans pushed forward the allegation because they knew an indictment over the documents could be coming.

    The timing of the indictment is to do this well ahead of the election, snd becsuse they got their testimony.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  127. The entire Republican party needs to burn down for their reaction to this.

    There are only about 5 GOP reps who need to be taken out and shot.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  128. There’s also the IRS whistleblower allegation that Hunter Biden’s audit was given special protection — and that one is real.

    They even lately replaced the whole audit team.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  129. In the end, this is political. It could not be any other way in a country where damn near everything is political.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  130. …that anyone who could harm the United States got anywhere near these documents.

    See page 10-18 of the indictment. The janitor’s sister could have copied them all and sent them to Cuba and no one would ever know.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  131. 111. 112. Trummp didn’t sdhow the ghostwriters any documents so they could read it.

    He described a plan of attack on Iran. It happens all the time with reporters, and if people were prosecuted for, half or more would be indicted. Now maybe that is because investigation of leaks isn’t rigorous. But it is all for the good.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  132. The janitor’s sister could have copied them all and sent them to Cuba and no one would ever know.

    Not very likely.

    Nobody even knew there were any secret documents to find and they were all mixed up.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  133. and mixed with other memorabilia.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  134. Where things are properly filed and known to be there – that’s where spies want to go. And have gone.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  135. Nothing is preventing Trump from raising how Clinton, Biden, and Pence were treated differently in a motion to dismiss or during the trial. He is completely entitled to make that argument.

    Rip Murdock (aed69e)

  136. FBI Director Wray was suddenly becoming more co-operative with the Republican House committee about the bribe allegation, but how that works into a conspiracy of timing I do not know.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  137. Trump would probably need to argue prosecutorial misconduct.

    Sammy Finkelman (300a8a)

  138. According to the indictment (page 8), Trump had documents from the following agencies: the Central Intelligence Agency, the Depts. of Defense, State, and Energy, the National Security Agency, the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, the National Reconnaissance Office, the State Dept. Bureau of Intelligence and Research.

    On pages 28-31 is a list of 31 individual documents with their dates, security classification, and vague summary of what they contain found at MAL, which were held “in violation of 18 USC 793(e).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  139. More Republicans Falling in Line:

    ………
    Sen. Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming said that although she does have “serious concerns with the classified documents being handled improperly in this case,” she questions the prosecutors’ motivations.

    “The Department of Justice should never be weaponized to target President Biden’s political opponent,” she said.

    Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith of Mississippi said in a statement: “The Justice Department shouldn’t be weaponized against the President’s political opponents, regardless of party. It’s an affront to our faith in the American legal and justice system when they are used for political purposes, whether real or perceived.”

    Sen. Mike Lee of Utah called the indictment an “affront to our country’s glorious 246-year legacy of independence from tyranny.”

    Sen. Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee accused the DOJ of pursuing “its political agenda to take down a former president.”

    Sen. Mike Braun of Indiana said the “Biden administration is arresting their top political adversary for something Biden himself admitted to doing just this year. President Biden’s weaponization of our justice system against his enemies will do lasting damage to the rule of law.”

    Rep. Chris Stewart of Utah said the charges “are equally unprecedented and unconscionable. This is a sad day for any American who believes in the rule of law. The National Archives have confirmed that every single president since Ronald Reagan has mishandled classified materials.”
    ……..

    Feel free then to pass a law forbidding the indictments of former Presidents, Vice-Presidents, and current presidential candidates.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  140. This is a violation of the same records law that Trump is being accused of violating,, and the violation is in the 100s or thousands of records. For Hillary to claim that this was an innocent mistake is risible.

    the documents she had were not marked Secret or classified. The Trump charges involve mishandling of document(s) marked Secret/classified. There may be other charges that could have been brought against Hillary for discussing Secret/classified issues in emails on an unsecured server, but this is not that law.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  141. DRJ (fd3827) — 6/9/2023 @ 1:25 pm

    the documents she had were not marked Secret or classified.

    Actually, a few were, by mistake.

    She gave instructions when her daily schedulewas sent toher they should not be marked (c) for confidential but sometimes they were.

    That is not to say that Hillary did not sell or turn over secret government information. But if she did it, she did it differently – in her State Department office, in person; by a printed out fax sent to her home in DC; or verbally.

    It was not supposed to be even possible for classified information to get on her system. It substituted for the State Department’s unclassified email system.

    Hillary in fact caused the whole investigation herself by saying she wanted everything (that was left after deleting anything that was not sent to a government address or mentioned Libya or Benghazi – the subject of the Congressional subpoena – she also destroyed the meta data and the attachments) to be made public.

    The Trump charges involve mishandling of document(s) marked Secret/classified.

    Among the numerous other government records.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  142. Actually, a few were, by mistake.

    Link, please.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  143. Her email server in her bathroom with no security to speak of was IN AND OF ITSELF a crime, which she committed willfully.

    Trump stored classified documents in boxes a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, an office space, his bedroom, and a storage room.

    DRJ (fd3827)

  144. CBS’ Major Garrett: Trump probably kept them to settle scores, and to brag,The indictment starts with the subpoena which (could mean) if he only complied with the subpoena, this all goes away.

    Sammy Finkelman (25fa75)

  145. He moved them to a bathroomm etc to hide them from the people who came to get them.

    Sammy Finkelman (25fa75)

  146. I remember some of Hillary’s emails were marked confidential. The Wikipedia article seems to think none were.

    Sammy Finkelman (25fa75)

  147. Sammy,

    Of course they were
    Don’t forget, the shoe dropped when Anthony Weiner’s laptop was searched and Huma was found having Hillary’s confidential docs.

    NJRob (ac3fa7)

  148. Trump could stand by him and cover his defense costs

    Still goes to jail. He may not want that.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  149. The existence of her home-brewed server should’ve been enough

    Since it was created expressly to circumvent the Federal Records Act (and the Freedom of Information Act, and probably other laws), in itself it is a crime. The reason she had her own server was not to protect government secrets, but to protect Hillary’s secrets. Even if no classified information was ever on it, it was 300,000 violations of the law.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  150. @118: This is why I don’t get into these Hunter Biden things. I don’t have the energy to try to keep everyone’s lies straight.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  151. Not very likely.

    Unless the answer is “totally 100%% impossible and I’d stake my life on it” it’s not good enough. Storing them at the side of a ballroom that is rented out for parties is just so terribly insecure that it boggles the mind that someone could defend that.

    Of course there will be 3 jurors who argue just that, after lying their asses off during voir dire.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  152. He is completely entitled to make that argument.

    Or that space aliens beamed all that crap into Mar-a-Lago. It will work as well. Maybe better.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  153. Here’s the best 2024 case for the Republicans:

    1. Trump takes a plea deal where he withdraws from politics and pays a fine. All other cases are dropped.

    2. The GOP uses the “political attack” on their candidate as a campaign strategy — throw the corrupt bums out.

    3. Much confusion ensues.

    4. Without Trump to run against, Biden loses.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  154. A Trump-Appointed Judge Who Showed Him Favor Gets the Documents Case

    The surprise assignment of Judge Aileen Cannon could be a setback for prosecutors as they unveiled a sweeping classified files indictment.

    Even as prosecutors publicly unveiled a deep and detailed array of evidence against former President Donald J. Trump in the documents investigation on Friday, they suffered a potential setback with the surprise assignment of the case to Judge Aileen M. Cannon.

    Judge Cannon, 42, a Trump appointee in Florida, shocked legal experts across ideological lines last year by intervening in the investigation and issuing rulings favorable to Mr. Trump, only to be rebuked by a conservative appeals court.

    The chief clerk of court for the Southern District of Florida has said that new cases there are randomly delegated to its judges even if they are related to previous ones. It was not immediately clear whether Mr. Trump lucked out, or if an exception was made. Either way, legal specialists said Judge Cannon’s return was significant.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  155. @85

    To bring criminal charges, there had to be evidence that Clinton intentionally transmitted or willfully mishandled classified information. There was never any classified information found in her emails.

    DRJ (fd3827) — 6/9/2023 @ 10:39 am

    That’s gaslighting.

    She was questioned, on record mind you, about what does the annotation of “(C)” means in the documents found at her unclass email address.

    We can talk about two things at once.

    What Trump did was bad.

    What Clinton did was bad too.

    whembly (d087cf)

  156. She was questioned, on record mind you, about what does the annotation of “(C)” means in the documents found at her unclass email address.

    @DRJ:

    That’s what I was talking about when I said some of her mail was accidently marked classified.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)


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