Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
[Ed. I just realized that it’s only Thursday, not Friday, so Early Weekend Open Thread…]
Let’s go!
First news item
CNN, fully knowing how things would go, nonetheless gave former president Donald Trump, the corrupt, twice-impeached compulsive liar and narcissist, whom a jury just found liable for sexual assault, a platform from which to double down on his lies and peddle misinformation to a friendly audience with ineffectual pushback from the host. When all was said and done, the cable network was compelled to factcheck the former president’s claims.
So why did CNN decide to host Trump’s “rally” in the first place? I asked and answered the question two days ago:
Does CNN rethink hosting its Trump forum tomorrow night in light of the leading Republican candidate, who has already been proven unfit for office, and now found liable for sexual abuse, or do they stay the course for ratings gold? Pretty sure we already know the answer.
In other words, it appears that nothing at CNN has changed since former network president Jeff Zuker opted to air numerous Trump rallies in pursuit of higher ratings. And Trump knows it. What an exclusive welcome from the cable network to their favorite ratings son and the leading 2024 Republican candidate! What a receptive welcome from the audience who laughed at the former president mocking a sexual abuse victim! Winners all around!
How did CNN employees react to the townhall:
Chris Licht begins CNN’s 9am editorial call by praising @kaitlancollins for a “masterful performance last night.” He says “I couldn’t be more proud of her” and the whole team in NH. Then he says he’s aware of the backlash…
“You do not have to like the former president’s answers, but you can’t say that we didn’t get them,” Licht tells staffers, many of whom are angry about the town hall. “Kaitlan pressed him again and again and made news. Made a LOT of news.” And “that is our job.”
“While we all may have been uncomfortable hearing people clapping, that was also an important part of the story,” Licht adds, because those folks represent “a large swath of America,” and the media screwed up by missing that part of the story in 2015/16.
Covering Trump is “tricky and messy,” Licht says, and it will “continue to be messy and tricky, but it’s our job.” He confidently says “America was served very well by what we did last night.” Many CNN employees strongly disagree.
From Jake Tapper:
Jake Tapper: "The falsehoods kept coming fast and furious" (this is the issue with doing this sort of event with Trump!) pic.twitter.com/iQ3B353dTF
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 11, 2023
CNN’s Oliver Darcy writes that “It’s hard to see how America was served by the spectacle of lies that aired on CNN Wednesday evening,” and documents the internal criticism over the townhall debacle coming from within CNN.
Second news item
While border crossings topped 10,000 daily the last three days (before Title 42 expires) and President Biden said that “the border is going to be chaotic for a while,” Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas offered these comments at a presser yesterday:
The Department of Homeland Security is assigning hundreds of asylum officers to the border to sort through the region’s recent surge in humanitarian needs, Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said Wednesday.
“Short-term solutions” are needed to address the “decades-old problem” of a “broken immigration system,” Mayorkas said in explaining the surge. We are clear-eyed about the challenges we are likely to face in the days and weeks ahead. … We are taking this approach within the constraints of a broken immigration system that Congress has not fixed for more than two decades and without the resources we need: personnel, facilities, transportation and others that we have requested of Congress and that we were not given,” he said.
Asked about reports that Customs and Border Protection is releasing migrants due to capacity issues, Mayorkas said those migrants are still required to meet strict conditions and report back to authorities, adding those releases only occur in limited circumstances.
“Like other administrations, when we release individuals, we release them on conditions — and their compliance with those conditions is absolutely necessary. And if they fail to comply, we will seek to apprehend them and remove them,” he said.
Fact check of Mayorkas press conference lies.
Title 8 does not = removal, it = RELEASE.
March-no more than 42% of arrestees held for removal or removed. All others RELEASED.
April-No more than 31% of arrestees held for removal or removed. All others RELEASED.
Do the math.
— Border Patrol Union – NBPC (@BPUnion) May 11, 2023
Third news item
The United Kingdom has delivered multiple “Storm Shadow” cruise missiles to Ukraine, giving the nation a new long-range strike capability in advance of a highly anticipated counteroffensive against Russian forces, multiple senior Western officials told CNN.
UK Defense Secretary Ben Wallace, calling the donation Ukraine’s “best chance to defend themselves against Russia’s continued brutality,” confirmed the transaction on Thursday after CNN exclusively reported the deal.
The Storm Shadow is a long-range cruise missile with stealth capabilities, jointly developed by the UK and France, which is typically launched from the air. With a firing range in excess of 250km, or 155 miles, it is just short of the 185-mile range capability of the US-made surface-to-surface Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, that Ukraine has long asked for.
Better late than never, I suppose:
The French parliament has called on the EU to formally label the Russian mercenary group Wagner as terrorists, as the UK reportedly prepares to do the same.
France’s parliament unanimously passed a non-binding resolution aimed at encouraging the 27 members of the EU to put Wagner on its official list of terrorist organisations.
“Wherever they work, Wagner members spread instability and violence,” MP Benjamin Haddad told parliament on Tuesday. “They kill and torture. They massacre and pillage. They intimidate and manipulate with almost total impunity.”
…
Being listed as a terrorist organisation means EU members could freeze assets of the Wagner group and its members, with European companies and citizens barred from dealing with the group.
Fourth news item
House Republicans on Wednesday showed their cards on a sprawling investigation into the Biden family — sans a smoking gun that directly links President Joe Biden.
The rollout by Oversight Chair James Comer (R-Ky.) and GOP members of his panel marks the biggest public swing that Republicans have taken since November in a probe they’ve put at the center of investigations they hope will help them both keep their majority in 2024 and win the White House.
But the highly anticipated press conference also raised fresh questions about their ability to ultimately capture their white whale: the president himself. And Comer’s already faced plenty of doubt, including from some within his own party, that he can back up his promises to show Biden’s connection to family business dealings.
No link has publicly emerged, and that didn’t change at Wednesday’s press conference.
Fifth news item
Rep. George Santos in deep trouble:
A 13-count federal indictment unsealed Wednesday in New York accuses U.S. Rep. George Santos of embezzling money from his campaign, falsely receiving unemployment funds and lying to Congress about his finances.
The following are the counts Santos faces as they are described in the indictment, and the maximum sentences as spelled out in the U.S. criminal code:
COUNTS 1-5: “Wire Fraud — Fraudulent Political Contribution Solicitation Scheme”
COUNTS 6-8: “Unlawful Monetary Transactions Over $10,000”
COUNT 9: “Theft of Public Money”
COUNTS 10-11: “Wire Fraud — Fraudulent Application for and Receipt of Unemployment Benefit”
COUNT 12: “False Statements — 2020 House Disclosure Reports”
COUNT 13: “False Statements— 2022 House Disclosure Reports”
Sixth news item
The debt ceiling fight question:
A better question is this: Is it credible to bet on investors agreeing to buy $114 trillion in debt over the next 30 years? China and Japan have already reduced their holdings of American bonds, while the Fed already holds 25 percent of our debt. It’s unclear that domestic investors will step up to the plate. What happens then? Taxes can only be raised so much. Under the current tax system, on average, the United States has raised about 18 percent of GDP in tax revenue. But in 30 years, spending will be 30 percent of GDP.
My hope is that if you’ve read this far, you now understand that Congress should start working diligently to stop our debt from growing. No side is going to like what’s required, but it must be done. And the longer we wait, the more painful it will be.
Seventh news item
On E. Jean Carroll and Trump defenders:
But Carroll did. She did exactly what Trump’s defenders demanded. She went to court, faced cross-examination, looked the jury in the eye and made her claims. She provided witnesses who supported her story, under oath. The court gave Trump a chance to answer, to do the same thing — to look the jury in the eye and state his case. He declined.
The jury’s verdict echoes beyond politics. It implicates our nation’s moral core. Trump had his day in court. He lost. Now the GOP faces a very different kind of trial, one conducted not before a jury, but before a watching nation. It’s a test of decency, integrity and respect, and it is a great tragedy of our time that no one can presume that it’s a test the party will pass.
Eighth news item
Russia’s nuclear talk *is* the weapon:
Today’s Russia issues an unending stream of nuclear threats. In the West today, unlike during the Cold War, these are discussed in psychological rather than strategic terms. How does Mr. Putin feel? How do we feel?
Americans’ fear of escalation delayed the supply of weapons that could have allowed Ukraine to win last year. One after the other, the weapons systems deemed escalatory have now been delivered, with no negative consequences. But the cost of delay can be observed in the Ukrainian territories that Russia still controls: the death pits, the torture chambers and the empty homes of kidnapped children. Tens of thousands of soldiers on both sides have unnecessarily died.
In nearly 15 months of war, despite Russian nuclear propaganda and Western anxiety, there has been no use of nuclear weapons. This is an absence worthy of an explanation. Those who predicted escalation if Ukrainians resisted, if the West supplied weapons or if Russia suffered defeat have thus far been wrong. Strategic thinkers point to deterrence and note that nuclear use would not in fact bring a Russian victory. It would ensure a dramatic Western response and make Russian leaders pariahs. But there is a deeper explanation: Russia’s nuclear talk is itself the weapon.
Read the whole thing.
Have a great weekend.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:03 amOMG, Dana. What a smörgåsbord of things to haunt my dreams.
2024 will be a nightmare: an aged lich versus a schoolyard bully. Both unable to perceive objective reality.
I hope you are feeling better.
Simon Jester (12f228) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:22 amSecond news item…
BuDuh (208cf6) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:30 amDoes the Sierra Club or any other Environmentalist group ever really effectively complain about this?
BuDuh (208cf6) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:35 amFIFY. To quote Gertrude Stein, “There is no there there.”
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:37 amIs there a whiff of “there” here?
BuDuh (208cf6) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:50 amAccording to Stelter:
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:56 amI look forward to the public hearings. So far all the committee has produced are press releases. Not receiving the confidential informant file (which could include unsubstantiated allegations) is a too convenient excuse.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:56 amAOC sounds identical to those ranting about Trump lying.
To anyone who isn’t a rabid leftist or NeverTrump, he came across as likeable and informative. He answered questions in his bombastic way and was viewed positively by the townhall.
DeSantis has a big hill to climb. He has the ability, but could use the support of actual Republicans to do it.
NJRob (5d64b4) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:59 amBuDuh,
It’s purely partisan politics when it puts a Democrat in a corrupt light. When it’s heresay of a 30 year old event from a serial fabulust against a Republican, then it’s important and worthy of coverage.
NJRob (5d64b4) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:00 amEven Senator Grassley thinks the whistleblower allegations could be “untrue.”
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:07 amIs it true that it was cut off shorter than the planned length of time?
BuDuh (208cf6) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:09 amFrom Rip’s “untrue” link:
Now that is the kind of definite reliable stuff a guy that wants hearings can take to the bank!
Did you listen to the 20second sound bite, Rip? It cuts off in a convenient spot.
BuDuh (208cf6) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:18 amSupreme Court rejects challenge to California pork industry restriction
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna64623
BuDuh (208cf6) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:26 amI’m sure to Trumpers, he did come off as likable. Hardly an objective assessment. No problem too with him mocking a sexual abuse victim. No problem with election lies and denials. What’s not to love!
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 12:03 pmFIFY. To quote Gertrude Stein, “There is no there there.”
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:37 am
Stein was referring to Trump Russia Collusion
JF (932d64) — 5/11/2023 @ 12:16 pmDemographics is destiny.
As some school districts in this area are being reminded. If you take a look at that “population pyramid”, you will see that the number of children in the United States began to decline about 13 years ago. And so local districts are having to cut back because they have fewer students in elementary schools. And will have to continue cutting back for some years.
(There is an interesting mistake in the text of that article: “Since the early 1970s the birth rate has been below the replacement rate of 2.1 with 1.72 children per woman in 2018.” In fact, as you can see if you look at the table further down, there were two years, 2006 and 2007, when the “total fertility rate” in the US was just above replacement level.
I don’t know of any other developed nations that have gotten above 2.1, however temporarily, since 2000, though France came close in 2010.)
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 12:30 pm@15
I’m actually quite demoralized. I was hoping Trump would fade away… but you cannot ignore how effective he is in these sort of settings.
All this does, is keeps the “trumpers” together, whom would vote for him in the primary again.
At this point, if you really don’t want to see Trump win the primary, the time is now to start aggressively supporting someone like DeSantis.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/11/2023 @ 12:49 pm@Rip & @everyone else.
With respect to primary polling these days. Anything can change.
Looking at the 2016, you’ll see Trump started out in the basement, and likely ultimately won in a crowded field. I would image Cruz could’ve beaten Trump, had other candidates dropped out earlier.
See here:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html
A Trump challenger for ’24, ie DeSantis, probably needs to be 10-15% min out of the gate, but by the summer in the 20’s/30’s and hopefully surpassing Trump. It should be an awfully close race and the Haley/Scott/Vivik of the world need to drop out as soon as possible so that the primary delegates can coalesce behind a Trump challenger.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:17 pmHey… you Bidenistas! Our economy is not a mess because Joe Biden is old; it’s a mess because Democrats do not understand economics.
That’s just for starters. You seem to need a reality check about what these past 29 months have wrought.
Colonel Haiku (a2cfbe) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:20 pmPlenty of other potential candidates out there, you needn’t carry water for the people who are actively ruining the country.
Colonel Haiku (a2cfbe) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:23 pm> No problem too with him mocking a sexual abuse victim.
Well, see, only rabid leftists think she was credible, and only rabid leftists believe the jury wasn’t corrupt.
Seriously, though — the dynamic between Trump and his supporters is such that if Trump does it, it’s automatically a good thing, and the net result is that our culture has shifted so that mocking sexual abuse victims is now widely held as *good behavior*.
*That sort of thing* — Trump’s cruelty and jackassery becoming acceptable behavior because Trump does it — is honestly one of the biggest reasons I’ve been never Trump since the minute he entered the political arena.
aphrael (fc1538) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:40 pmTo carry the thought further, aphrael: If Trump says he won an election, it’s not only automatically a good thing but it’s also true.
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:45 pmThe bribery and influence peddling allegations against Biden have as much credibility as the Trump Dossier. Even Comer concedes he has no evidence of such crimes.
Given the fact that Biden can be impeached for so many different actions (the Afghanistan withdrawal, student loan forgiveness, immigration, etc.) it’s a surprise that the Republicans haven’t started impeachment hearings yet. It would guarantee a Republican victory in 2024.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:46 pmI noted at the top of the post that I just realized that today is Thursday, not Friday…so early weekend open thread.
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:46 pmMaybe I should wait…but he did say “she”, so any guesses who?
urbanleftbehind (2cc899) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:54 pmhttps://www.barrons.com/articles/elon-musk-twitter-ceo-1f2516b6
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/07/e-jean-carroll-what-do-we-need-men-for-memoir-review/593245/
And more..
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:56 pmAnd on and on…
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:57 pmHere’s a graph showing the continuing decline of inflation in the US.
Reminders: The unemployment rate has stayed below 4 percent in recent months, which is good news for the nation. The Federal Reserve is aiming for an inflation target of 2 percent, not 0. Putin’s evil war on Ukraine is one of the principal causes of our current world wide inflation.
A glance at the league table in the April 15th issue of the Economist, which is the latest issue I have, shows that the US is doing better by those two measures than most of our competitors. For example, the Euro area, taken as a whole, has 5.9 percent inflation, and a 6.6 percent unemployment rate.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:06 pmWhen The Don;
Flips a CNN con;
From the Kate;
By not taking the bait;
With a show;
So much better that Joe’s…
That’s En-ter-tain-ment!
DCSCA (aed523) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:07 pm0, not o.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:08 pmNow that’s interesting: I typed zero, and it showed a zero with the slash in the entry box — but it again showed the o.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:11 pmHere’s five zeroes: 00000 Followed by five o’s: ooooo.
So it’s a bug in the system, not, as almost always, my typing mistake. Looking closely, I can see a tiny difference between the two, t00 small a difference in my opinion. And the entry box should not be that different from the final display
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:15 pmThe United Kingdom has delivered multiple “Storm Shadow” cruise missiles to Ukraine, giving the nation a new long-range strike capability in advance of a highly anticipated counteroffensive against Russian forces, multiple senior Western officials told CNN.
Buzz bombs dispatched from Britain to Europe?! The irony is thicker than London fog; what goes around comes around.
DCSCA (aed523) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:17 pm#25 – Maybe you are just a little ahead of the rest of us, by coming out in favor of a four-day work week.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:27 pm@25
Dana, hope you’re feeling better!
I wished today was Friday too… 😉
whembly (d116f3) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:31 pmTurns out Wikipedia has a little list:
Trumpistas will, of course, reject all these accusations, or worse, excuse them. They will not, as rational people should, decide that there almost certainly is some truth in the claim that Trump has often attacked women. They will not realize that Trump sees them as suckers, easily conned.
The rest of us will wonder how many other women might have chosen silence, or even been paid off in return for their silence.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:40 pmSenators React to Carroll Verdict:
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:40 pmFeeling fine. Thank you. Somehow just goofed up the day. Heh.
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:40 pmOn May 14th, Turkey is having a big election. As far as I know, this BBC article is a good summary of the issues and personalities involved.
Inflation is officially over 40 percent.
(Kemal Kilicdaroglu is an Alevi, a sect which I find intersting. I have no idea how that might affect the voting.)
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:53 pmDoes anyone know how the CNN Trump town hall audience members were chosen?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:54 pm#39 – Glad to hear you are feeling better. And I was giving you credit for being ahead of us, because a four-day work week would mean a three-day week-end.
Thanks for all you do here.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/11/2023 @ 2:55 pm@41
From what I gather, they were NH GOPers.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/11/2023 @ 3:09 pmIs that the routine model for town halls, i.e., R candidates always get an R audience, D candidates always get a D audience?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/11/2023 @ 3:19 pmSupreme court gets ready for 2024 election bythrowing out convictions for bribery and wire fraud making it harder to prosecute trum p and the bidens.
asset (f6fb75) — 5/11/2023 @ 3:25 pmSad!
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 3:37 pm29… just wait a few months, when the figures are adjusted and reflect a negative environment.
Colonel Haiku (a2cfbe) — 5/11/2023 @ 3:47 pm“It happened again on Monday. Mr. Biden appeared alongside Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg to brief reporters on new efforts to force airlines to compensate passengers when a flight is canceled. As soon as his remarks ended, Mr. Biden turned and walked off, ignoring questions from reporters. This comes after the president claimed Friday that he was doing a “major press conference” that evening. In reality, he was doing an MSNBC interview.
Taking questions from the media promotes public accountability. It also shows that the president is willing to defend his positions and instills confidence that he can do the job. It is widely known that Mr. Biden is gaffe-prone and that news conferences are not his forte. But as he runs for a second term, he should be eager to show he can handle all aspects of the job.
Pick up the microphone, Mr. President. The media is not your enemy.”
No scat, Captain Obvious.
https://hotair.com/headlines/2023/05/09/the-media-is-not-your-enemy-n549637
Colonel Haiku (a2cfbe) — 5/11/2023 @ 3:52 pm> No problem too with him mocking a sexual abuse victim.
Well, see, only rabid leftists think she was credible, and only rabid leftists believe the jury wasn’t corrupt.
Seriously, though — the dynamic between Trump and his supporters is such that if Trump does it, it’s automatically a good thing, and the net result is that our culture has shifted so that mocking sexual abuse victims is now widely held as *good behavior*.
aphrael (fc1538) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:40 pm
I’m wondering how rabid leftist culture shifted to Jean Carroll >> credible/hero from Juannita Broderick and Paula Jones >> not credible/trailer trash
JF (932d64) — 5/11/2023 @ 4:16 pmI’m Shocked!:
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 4:43 pm18-to-20-year-olds can’t be barred from buying handguns, judge rules
A federal judge in Virginia has declared unconstitutional a set of laws and regulations that prohibit federally licensed firearms dealers from selling handguns to 18-to-20-year-olds, finding that the measures violated the Second Amendment.
“Because the statutes and regulations in question are not consistent with our Nation’s history and tradition, they, therefore, cannot stand,” U.S. District Judge Robert E. Payne (appointed by George H.W. Bush,), who sits in Richmond, concluded in a 71-page opinion.
………..
According to the Bruen opinion, written by Justice Clarence Thomas, “constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them.” Payne wrote in his opinion Wednesday that although the age of adulthood was considered to be 21 at the time of the United States’ founding, the fact that people could join militias at 18 was more compelling.
Payne wrote that “no federal appellate court, much less the Supreme Court, has squarely determined that the Second Amendment’s rights vest at age 21” and that “to date, three circuits, the Fifth, Seventh, and Eleventh, have looked at this question head-on and have declined to answer it.”
“If the Court were to exclude 18-to-21-year-olds from the Second Amendment’s protection, it would impose limitations on the Second Amendment that do not exist with other constitutional guarantees,” the judge added. “It is firmly established that the First, Fourth, Fifth, Eight, and Fourteenth Amendments vest before the age of 21. … Like these other rights, the Second Amendment’s protections apply to 18-to-20-year-olds.
“By adopting the Second Amendment, the people constrained both the hands of Congress and the courts to infringe upon this right by denying ordinary law-abiding citizens of this age the full enjoyment of the right to keep and bear arms unless the restriction is supported by the Nation’s history. That is what Bruen tells us.”
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:14 pm………….
Payne, in his opinion, wrote that the Bruen majority directs courts to conduct a historical analysis in weighing gun regulations.
………….
I’ll be darned. My new romantic interest lives in California. If I have to move back to the place I’ve been ripping on for the past 14 years so help me…
Laugh it up, fuzzballs.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:15 pmSince the Constitution has been amended to give 18 year olds the right to vote, and they can sign contracts, be drafted, and marry, there is no reason they cannot purchase handguns. They already have fight to purchase rifles and shotguns, so this difference really seems to have no justification
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:22 pmDoes she wear a pink beret?
🤪
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:24 pmCNN faces backlash over chaotic Trump town hall event
NEW YORK (AP) — CNN is facing a backlash over its town hall featuring former President Donald Trump, an event that swiftly turned chaotic in a stark display of the tightrope facing journalists covering a leading 2024 Republican candidate who refuses to play by the rules.
The town hall Wednesday was the first major television event of the 2024 presidential campaign, and CNN defended its decision to hold it as a chance to put Trump in front of a wider audience, outside of the conservative media bubble he has largely kept to since early in his presidency.
Critics said the event, which was staged in front of Republicans and unaffiliated voters who were expected to vote in the GOP primary, instead turned into a Trump campaign rally that produced little actual news and allowed Trump to repeat longstanding falsehoods while dodging difficult questions. Tom Jones, a senior writer at the media research institute Poynter, said he had favored the idea of CNN holding the town hall at St. Anselm College in New Hampshire. But he said he was surprised by the conduct of the audience, which he had expected to be more neutral.
Instead, the crowd gave Trump a standing ovation when he walked onstage, applauded some of his most provocative comments and laughed at many of his quips, including when he criticized E. Jean Carroll, the advice columnist who accused him of raping her in 1996 and this week won a $5 million judgment against him.
Jones said the atmosphere put CNN’s moderator, Kaitlan Collins, in an almost impossible position as she tried to elicit straightforward answers from Trump and fact-check his comments about the Jan. 6 storming of the Capitol by his supporters and the 2020 election, which he still falsely insists he won.
“Whenever she might have had him cornered, he was built up by the audience,” Jones said. “It just emboldened him. He realized, ‘I can do or say anything I want,’ and she got steamrolled at that point through no fault of her own. It was her against the entire room.”
The event was indicative of the new era of leadership at CNN and management’s efforts to lure back viewers who turned to Fox News and other conservative outlets over the past decade. At a Thursday morning meeting at CNN, Chairman and CEO Chris Licht praised Collins’ “masterful performance,” saying she asked tough questions in difficult circumstances.
“If someone was going to ask tough questions and have that messy conversation, that damn well should be on CNN,” he said in a recording of the meeting obtained by The Associated Press. He also defended the decision to hold the town hall before a Trump-friendly crowd.
“While we all may have been uncomfortable hearing people clapping, that was also an important part of the story, because the people in that audience represent a large swath of America,” Licht said. “And the mistake the media made in the past is ignoring that those people exist. Just like you cannot ignore that President Trump exists.”
The event did widen CNN’s audience, at least for a night. Nielson said the town hall averaged 3.1 million viewers, compared to the 707,000 who tuned in to CNN during the same time slot a night earlier.
But Jones said he was skeptical that the town hall would help CNN’s reputation in the long term, given the backlash. He noted that most of the network’s post-event commentary was highly critical of Trump, likely alienating conservative viewers who had tuned in just to watch the former president. Nick Arama, a writer for the conservative website RedState.com, criticized CNN’s Gary Tuchman, who spoke with some of the audience members after Trump’s appearance, saying “he didn’t act as much like a moderator trying to get their opinion as a Democratic propagandist trying to impose his own opinion on them.”
Meanwhile, critics from the left were unsparing, saying CNN should have predicted how chaotic the event would be. “CNN should be ashamed of themselves. They have lost total control of this ‘town hall’ to again be manipulated into platforming election disinformation, defenses of Jan. 6th and a public attack on a sexual abuse victim. The audience is cheering him on and laughing at the host,” Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, of New York, wrote in a tweet.
Frank Sesno, a former CNN Washington bureau chief now at George Washington University, said the event was a harbinger of the difficult coverage decisions “every news organization needs to wrestle with because Donald Trump is not a normal candidate.”
“You can’t ignore him, but you can’t give him carte blanche either,” he said. A one-on-one interview would have been preferrable, though whether Trump would have agreed to that is a different question, said Sesno, who added that he saw value in allowing Trump to speak to a broader audience, including many people who might have mostly tuned him out in recent years.
Sesno noted that although Trump supporters delighted in his performance, Republican critics, including New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu, seized on it to to press their concerns about the former president’s ability to win a national election. “As chaotic and weird as the event was, I as a journalist think it’s important for people to see this,” he said. – AP.com
MEMO to Jones: It was not K-K-K-Katie’s job to ‘CORNER’ a candidate w/gotchas but to field questions for a candidate w/audience participation of a specified political party ‘town hall’ to respond to. This was not a GOP town hall sponsored by the DVC. Don’t send a child in to do the job of an adult, Tommy Boy.
MEMO to Sesno:
“Not a normal candidate?” Sez who? You. Sesno???? Who appointed Frank Sesno to discern what a ‘normal’ candidate is? Does a “normal candidate” hide in a basement and habitually lie about their credentials? Shake hands with nobody? Wander aimlessly babbling incoherent sentences? Does a “normal candidate” plagiarize other people’s work– something YOU, Frank Sesno, as a former reporter anmd now a college professor would be fired for doing?? Your own colleagues a generation ago literally ran the ass of such a ‘normal candidate’ out of the presidential race. Frankie. Sesno: GFYS.
MEMO to CNN disaster Licht: Resign, boob.
On air talent reading copy off a teleprompter is “mastering a performance.” Months of broadcast Don Lemon histrionics is ‘mastering a performance.’ Fielding questions in an unscripted forum requires journalistic skill, experience– and maturity. The kid looked and sounded like she was arguing with daddy to get keys to the car for a hot date.
DCSCA (38ffdf) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:28 pmHey Rip,
Is Ms. Carroll’s new suit going to be funded by the leftist billionaire as well or will she do it herself?
NJRob (4c1d75) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:29 pmDoes she wear a pink beret?
🤪
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:24 pm
No, but she does have a sister named Jenny!
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:33 pmhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12074133/Trump-ally-Steve-Bannon-SWATTED-podcast.html
NJRob (4c1d75) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:46 pmNJRob (4c1d75) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:46 pm
Swatting is reprehensible, no matter whom the target is. (Well, I would condone it for Putin.)
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 5:49 pmHey NJ:
I have no personal information about that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Reid Hoffman did so again. It’s very similar to what Peter Thiel did for Hulk Hogan in his lawsuit against Gawker.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:02 pmUsing cable news’ own rah-rah strategy against itself if they reported on themselves through looking glass:
CNN Newsreader Wants Killing To Continue
Collins: “Do you want Ukraine to win this war?”
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:05 pmTrump: “I don’t think in terms of winning and losing. I think in terms of getting it settled so we stop killing all these people.”
Joe Biden’s approach to providing arms to Ukraine is like a prissy little child putting one toe in the water at a time. It’s pretty much how we lost in Vietnam.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:16 pm“I think in terms of getting it settled so we stop killing all these people.”
Trump would have offered England to Hitler, if he’d just stop all the killing.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:17 pmTrump got about 74 million votes. Only 3.1 million households watched last night. Trump fatigue?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:19 pmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADDrSvNyqEY&t=21s
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/that-time-joe-biden-lied-about-his-academic-credentials/
“Do you want four more years of that?” – Joe Biden
Never ask a question you don’t know the answer to, Joe.
IDIOT.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:21 pmTo anyone who isn’t a rabid leftist or NeverTrump, he came across as likeable and informative.
I have no words.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:27 pmComedy gold!
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:29 pmSupreme Court rejects challenge to California pork industry restriction
California is too big and badly governed. This restriction falls mostly on the inland (red) areas which produce the food, making it impossible for them to sell out-of-state (or in-state, their choice). It will backfire as badly as the egg rules did last year.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:32 pmJoe Biden’s approach to providing arms to Ukraine is like a prissy little child putting one toe in the water at a time. It’s pretty much how we lost in Vietnam.
Except it’s ‘pretty much’ not:
The Secrets and Lies of the Vietnam War, Exposed in One Epic Document
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/us/pentagon-papers-vietnam-war.html
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:32 pmAnd so local districts are having to cut back because they have fewer students in elementary schools. And will have to continue cutting back for some years.
It’s worse than that, as at the same time more students have migrated to private and charter schools.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:34 pmIt should be an awfully close race and the Haley/Scott/Vivik of the world need to drop out as soon as possible so that the primary delegates can coalesce behind a Trump challenger.
Sorry, but we need something other that Trump and Trump Lite.
We have 5 GOP candidates, and Vivek who is something else. THat’s a good number. In 2016 we had about 20, which got close to a CA recall election. We had candidates who were suing to get into the 2nd-tier debates. IF they had all turned on Trump at the outset, he would have been done, then they could have tried to woo his supporters. But no. They all tried to suck up, and in doing so, crowned him.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:40 pmIs Ms. Carroll’s new suit going to be funded by the leftist billionaire as well or will she do it herself?
Can I buy shares?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:41 pmIt’s worse than that, as at the same time more students have migrated to private and charter schools.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:34 pm
People dislike the government widget so strongly that they’re willing to continue subsidizing it AND pay out of pocket for a private school.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:42 pmTo anyone who isn’t a rabid leftist or NeverTrump, he came across as likeable and informative.
LOL. More like Patton pissed at being side-lined for slapping a soldier…
“I thought I’d stand up here and let you people see… if I’m as big a son of a b-tch
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:44 pmas some of you think I am.” – George Patton [George C. Scott] ‘Patton’ 1970
CNN ought to offer the same townhall format to DeSantis, and another to Nikki, Tim and Asa together. Trump does not need the exposure, but everyone else does. It would be actual news, too.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:44 pmCNN ought to offer the same townhall format to DeSantis, and another to Nikki, Tim and Asa together. Trump does not need the exposure, but everyone else does. It would be actual news, too.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:44 pm
But that won’t get the ratings. It just proves my point that the voters are the problem, not the parties or the candidates.
Without better voters, we won’t get better Presidents.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:47 pmIs that the routine model for town halls, i.e., R candidates always get an R audience, D candidates always get a D audience?
It wa actually a Trumpist audience. If it was actually Republicans and Independents, half would have been booing.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:49 pmAt this point, if you really don’t want to see Trump win the primary, the time is now to start aggressively supporting someone like DeSantis.
Put him in a room with Liz Cheney and one knife.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 6:51 pmCNN ought to offer the same townhall format to DeSantis, and another to Nikki, Tim and Asa together. Trump does not need the exposure, but everyone else does. It would be actual news, too.
Ramaswamy and Elder as well. Pence, too, if he jumps in.
And why not the D’s. Dontcha think Joey could field some line drives and ground balls with RFK Jr., Williamson, too? Or is he a shuffleboard player now.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:03 pmRight now Trump leads DeSantis by 20 points and Sununu by 30 in New Hampshire. Darling Nikki is 39 points behind. So the crowd fairly representative of who is leading in NH.
Trump received over 84% of the vote in the 2020 primary.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:05 pmI wouldn’t be surprised if they did, but it won’t be entertaining.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:07 pmThis is a troubling comment. I would question anyone’s sense of discernment and political savvy, no matter where their party loyalties rest, who saw Trump as likable and informative last night. Informative if you’ve lived under a rock and think insulting people and making fun of sexual abuse victims is nice, I guess. It’s insulting to voters. Not every Republican has been taken in by the corrupt, callous grifter. Nor do all Republicans believe Trump’s lies that the election was stolen and that Jan. 6 was a “beautiful day” at the Capitol. Very reasonable Republicans know the truth. They are not rubes who venerate the former president, or see him as some sort of political savior.
Certainly Trump supporters saw him as likable and informative last night. Unsurprisingly.
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:07 pmAin’t that the truth.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:09 pmIt just proves my point that the voters are the problem, not the parties or the candidates.
Voters aren’t the problem any more than movie audiences are the problem with Hollywood. The Party Elites are the problem, just as elitist studio heads are the problem greenlighting lousy movies.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:10 pmAt least in Republican presidential politics, NH is a Trumpist state.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:11 pm@83. Except it’s not. It’s not the public’s fault they didn’t buy Edsels or Corvairs. Blame the manufacturers.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:12 pmI’m not impressed with DeSantis’ petty squabble with Disney. 85,000 employed in Florida by the company and billions in tax dollars, and he gets in a tizzy because they criticized his agenda? This isn’t, and hasn’t been a smart move by the governor, especially if he wants to run in 2024. This particular culture war appeal would seem to be limited to his state:
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:14 pmYeah, it’s the voters fault they were too stupid to buy Vietnam. =sarc=
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:14 pm@87. Exactly. Have talked w/some old Hollywood colleagues about it, too- Disney certainly isn’t a perfect company and many of us would not have taken a gig to slave away at Mouschwitz at any salary– you have to embrace their corporate culture to endure– but the general consensus is that it’s really, really, REALLY stupid of DeSantis to punch down at a top employer in his state which is supported by thousands of ancillary business and, in the case of DisneyWorld, is the most visited vacation spot on Earth w/58 million people visiting Florida annually, bolstering the economy. Disney is one of the most recognized and welcomed symbols of America around the world.
DeSantis’ is a fool.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:23 pmVoters aren’t the problem any more than movie audiences are the problem with Hollywood.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:10 pm
I disagree. Demand drives supply.
This is a fundamental principle of economics.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:26 pmI’m not impressed with DeSantis’ petty squabble with Disney.
Dana (560c99) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:14 pm
I suspect DeSantis is only doing this in a misguided effort to get to the right of Trump.
What he should really do is just sit this one out, and let Trump fail again.
The cult is too strong to prevail in the primary this time around.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:30 pmThere’s nothing troubling about it except that you decided to respond to it twice.
He came equipped with many talking points, but actually engaged the questions and answered them. You may not like the answers, but you aren’t his audience. You already made that clean by the way you support a serial fabulust and anything that attacks Trump.
Ask anyone who isn’t politically engaged and you’d see what I am referencing.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:32 pm@90. LOLOLOLOLOL if economics are your metric:
Hollywood Vs Pornwood: Guess which grosses more money…..
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/hollywood-vs-pornwood-guess-which-grosses-more-money.628196/
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:33 pmHollywood Vs Pornwood: Guess which grosses more money…..
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/hollywood-vs-pornwood-guess-which-grosses-more-money.628196/
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:33 pm
You just made my point. There’s a bigger demand for porn than for movies.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:41 pmYou may not like the answers, but you aren’t his audience.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:32 pm
Are you? It seems like you were for DeSantis up until recently.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:42 pm@91. He’s doing it because he has poor judgment. On top of the Disney idiocy, punching down by responding to a now fired talk show host’s ‘questionnaire’ is another example of his poor judgment. And for MIC stockholders and money wasters, he misfired on Ukraine and has tried to pull a Ralph Kramden on the snafu. Beating chameleon Crist is nothing to brag about and going up against the mouse and duck isn’t a step forward; He’s a near-sighted cow wandering through a minefield.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:42 pmIs that an example of the non-partisan big picture you claim you can see?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:44 pmI’m not impressed with DeSantis’ petty squabble with Disney.
No one is asking you to be impressed
The fact that he’s better than Trump and Biden by a mile isn’t impressive either, but it’s more than enough to earn the vote from any reasonable conservative
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:46 pm@94. LOLOLOLOL And how many pono theaters outnumber McDonald’s in your town? LOLOLOL If that is your metric, Trump’s your guy; he prefers Playboy centerfolds, models and Stormy types… too bad Hunter isn’t running instead of his Dad, eh.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:48 pmIs that an example of the non-partisan big picture you claim you can see?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:44 pm
a non-partisan would see someone fielding unscripted questions, engaging with a hostile interviewer, and being able to remember how many grandchildren they have
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:52 pm@98. What’s impressive is his stupidity at that level of government. Pissing on one of America’s most recognized and welcome symbols worldwide; the most visited vacation spot on Earth cn only be embraced by a fraction of stove-piped out-of-favor-ideologues who simply hate all things Trump.
DCSCA (9537e3) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:53 pmThe fact that he’s better than Trump and Biden by a mile
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:46 pm
I agree that he’s better, but will voters in the primary see it that way?
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the American public.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:54 pmI agree that he’s better, but will voters in the primary see it that way?
Thanks to Nevertrump’s unceasing effort to boost Trump’s campaign and undermine DeSantis, seems unlikely at this point.
But losing counts as winning for NeverTrump folks.
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:04 pm“What was the Democrat argument against Reagan? The first time around was that he was a B-list actor who was going to launch a nuclear strike (wow, some of that sounds familiar, doesn’t it?) Then the argument was that he was lying about what policies he was going to implement (again, sound familiar?)
GHWB was an out-of-touch patrician
Dole and McCain were just out of touch and out of date dinosaurs with questionable choices for VP
The argument against W was a combination of smirking frat boy and flag-waving cowboy. The only policy argument I remember hearing was that his plan to revise Social Security was entirely unnecessary because SS was doing just fine, even though every other election the constant refrain was the GOP wanted to eliminate it.
Romney was too rich and too goofy (magic underwear) when he wasn’t abusing his dog or causing his employees to contract cancer.
I don’t think there’s been a single election in my political lifetime that the Democrats have actually contested on the grounds that their policies would be more beneficial to the country as a whole than the policies of the GOP. After Carter and Mondale lost to Reagan but especially after Dukakis got his wonkish ass handed to him by GHWB, the go-to tactic has been to gin up outrage against the GOP nominee. It is working less and less well because more and more people are deciding that having the right enemies is a good justification to vote for some one.”
—- Christopher B.
Colonel Haiku (cc33e2) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:09 pmThanks to Nevertrump’s unceasing effort to boost Trump’s campaign
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:04 pm
How does Nevertrump boost Trump’s campaign?
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:14 pm“Remarkably, CNN declared “no mas” with 20 minutes left to cut to a panel of seven of which only one was conservative. And Donald won that debate hands down. The longer Collins went, the more all could tell she was horribly biased and ineffective, and so she resorted to interrupting and trying to not let Trump finish his answers. And then CNN today felt compelled to issue a statement in Collins’ defense. It was that bad.
“I don’t want to talk about each topic and how Trump answered questions about the past. Trump is Trump. If you are a Trump supporter, you loved the town hall. If you are a NeverTrumper, your hair is on fire over the event. The thing that this town hall exposed is the rank hypocrisy of the left and their minions in the media. The left is incapable of arguing political points and philosophy anymore. Instead, the left just wants any opposing opinions to be shut down, squelched instead of allowed to debate. Most importantly, if something is said that the left does not agree with, the default position is to call that opinion a lie.”
“Freedom of speech only goes one way for the left. The left is panicked that they may get what they want – another Trump versus Biden election. The comparison of Trump’s America before the pandemic – a booming economy, no inflation, strong jobs market, secured (as much as possible) southern border, no new wars, conservative judicial picks, and a strong environment for small business entrepreneurs versus Biden’s America and the failure he has been as president is stark. Like him or not, Trump reminds American voters of how life can be and it’s a lot better than it is now.”
As long as Biden is president and Garland is AG, there will be Trump. And thank God for that.”
—- Milo M.
Colonel Haiku (cc33e2) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:17 pmthe go-to tactic has been to gin up outrage against the GOP nominee
Colonel Haiku (cc33e2) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:09 pm
And vice-versa.
Embrace the concept of calling out both sides. It’s very liberating. I’ve been much happier since I did.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:21 pmHow does Nevertrump boost Trump’s campaign?
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:14 pm
you think CNN hurt Trump?
and, DeSantis’s slide coincided with the Bragg’s political weaponization of the legal system
Nevertrump is a Trump SuperPAC
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:24 pmEmbrace the concept of calling out both sides. It’s very liberating. I’ve been much happier since I did.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:21 pm
did you get an apology from Fox yet?
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:25 pmYou do you. Too much at stake, IMO.
Colonel Haiku (cc33e2) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:25 pmAFAICT about 30% of Americans actually like Trump. Slightly less than 20% seem to think he’s a bit less bad than Biden. Maybe it’s a winning strategy to keep convincing the already convinced and maybe not alienating the less convinced 20%, but it seems risky.
(For those wondering about E. Jean Carroll’s clothes, she used to work for a fashion magazine. She probably has a wardrobe that doesn’t need subsidizing.)
Nic (896fdf) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:35 pmJF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 7:52 pm
That’s nice, JF, but I didn’t ask ask you. I asked Rob to flesh out his nonpartisan worldview, because he claims to have one. To my knowledge you’ve never made such a claim, and based on your unsolicited answer, that’s to your credit.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:36 pmyou think CNN hurt Trump?
and, DeSantis’s slide coincided with the Bragg’s political weaponization of the legal system
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:24 pm
I guess we have different definitions of “Nevertrump”. To me, Nevertrump means a right-of-center voter who is against Trump. Democrats aren’t just against Trump. They’re against any Republican.
The MSM and Bragg are by and large just Democrats. And, of course, Democrats learned during the 2018, 2020, and 2022 elections that running against Trump and his Trumpster-fire endorsees is a winning strategy.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:37 pmlurker (cd7cd4) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:36 pm
ah yes, lurker, I missed the part where NJRob solicited your opinion LOL
do you need a primer on how an open thread works?
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:46 pmThe MSM and Bragg are by and large just Democrats.
Bragg has plenty of fans among self-anointed right of center Nevertrumpers
DeSantis, not so much
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:51 pm115… yes, indeed. And it would be amusing if it wasn’t quite so sad.
Colonel Haiku (cc33e2) — 5/11/2023 @ 9:09 pmBragg has plenty of fans among self-anointed right of center Nevertrumpers
DeSantis, not so much
JF (fa234b) — 5/11/2023 @ 8:51 pm
Right-of-center Nevertrumpers want Trump to go away, and they don’t care who takes him down. If they can’t find another Republican candidate to support, then to me they aren’t Nevertrumpers. They’re just lefties.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 9:09 pmWithout better voters, we won’t get better Presidents.
This is not improved by making it impossible not to vote. The insistence that everyone should be encouraged to vote is guaranteed to bring out the worst, least informed, most mean-spirited voters. If prospective voters had to pick their state’s current governor from a multiple choice list of 3, the information value of the average vote would double.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 9:56 pmCertainly Trump supporters saw him as likable and informative last night. Unsurprisingly.
Perhaps. It think it’s more that they think that the powers that be have it in for them, and see Trump as their retribution. It is a palpable anger, which Trump nurtures, built from frustration, betrayal, and being ignored.
How do you think the people who have seen their jobs “taken” by waves of immigrants feel about the last few years? If you are a semiskilled tradesman, this has left you unemployed or making crap wages when you are employed. Trump was elected the first time to fix this, but (as he will spin it) the Deep State resisted his efforts, cheated him of his victory, and returned to their previous efforts to impoverish the Working Class.
They are not willing to be reasonable.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:03 pmWhat I fear most about a Trump re-election is not Trump, but a wave of anger that could propel him to a landslide win. If that happens, he will have unbridled power and the will to use it. When he says “I am the Retribution” we should take him at his word.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:07 pmWithout better voters, we won’t get better Presidents.
This is not improved by making it impossible not to vote.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 9:56 pm
No argument there.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:11 pmBut that won’t get the ratings. It just proves my point that the voters are the problem, not the parties or the candidates.
I think that voters are dying to see other choices. The insane focus on Trump and Biden is self-fulfilling. I’d prefer that the other candidates did not have to “share” time with Trump as he is a loud, interrupting troll in debates who brings no value to anyone looking for answers.
There as one GOP debate in 2016 that Trump boycotted. What a pleasure that was.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:24 pmRight-of-center Nevertrumpers want Trump to go away, and they don’t care who takes him down.
No, I don’t. That doesn’t make me a Democrat. It makes me sane. Sorry if you infer something from that.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:26 pmIF Trump were to drop dead, I would hold a party.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:27 pmRight-of-center Nevertrumpers want Trump to go away, and they don’t care who takes him down.
No, I don’t.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:26 pm
You don’t want him to go away and just shut up?
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:30 pm@125, I think you misunderstand what “No, I don’t” is responding to. He means he doesn’t care who takes Trump down, not that he doesn’t want Trump to go away.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:51 pmOh dear:
Tim Scott, being a gentleman and good soul, apparently thanked Sen. Feinstein for her support rather than embarrass her publicly.
This comes the day after the elderly Senator made her triumphant (well, maybe modest is a more apt description) return to the upper chamber of Congress after her three-month absence. Dems are going to desperately need her vote to hold the line on debt limit negotiations, lest Joe Manchin, Krysten Sinema, Jon Tester, Angus King, or any other Senator caucusing with the Dems gets frisky and suggests that Chuck Schumer acquiesce to the GOP House bill.
What happens if — and Heaven forbid, but I think it’s worth asking about — if Sen. Feinstein should become incapacitated to the degree where not only can she not perform her duties, but she isn’t even cognizant enough to resign her seat? Does the Senate have a mechanism in place where she can be voted out? If so, I doubt if it can be done with just 51 votes. I have to say that I am loving watching that party be hamstrung by a selfish old biddy who has hung on for far too long.
JVW (1ad43e) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:55 pmlurker,
This is the part that give me pause.
It makes me sane. Sorry if you infer something from that.
I don’t know if he means me, or generic “you”.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:04 pma selfish old biddy who has hung on for far too long
JVW (1ad43e) — 5/11/2023 @ 10:55 pm
And yet she’s the best of the top Democrats from California.
Relativity: it’s a thing. Just ask Einstein.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:07 pmAnd yet she’s the best of the top Democrats from California.
I believe this is what is known as “damming with faint praise.” Sort of like referring to Ivanka as the most ethical member of the Trump family or Ashley as the smartest member of the Biden family.
JVW (1ad43e) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:15 pmI believe this is what is known as “damming with faint praise.”
Guilty
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:17 pmNo laughs at the prospect of me moving back to CA, JVW?
Go ahead. You’re entitled.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:18 pmNo laughs at the prospect of me moving back to CA, JVW?
You’re far from the first guy I’ve known who is in an abusive relationship with the Golden State. “This time it will be different.”
JVW (1ad43e) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:24 pmYou’re far from the first guy I’ve known who is in an abusive relationship with the Golden State.
🤣
norcal (15fce4) — 5/11/2023 @ 11:27 pmI don’t know if he means me, or generic “you”.
Kevin will correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he meant the generic you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:10 amNo. Do you need one on how questions and answers work? You quoted my question, which was directed personally to Rob about his claim of non-partisan objectivity. You then posted your comment as if it was responsive, but since you’re not Rob, it couldn’t be and wasn’t. Moreover, that you characterized your hyper-partisan non-response as non-partisan was just silly. Kudos though on remembering to whatabout. Your whatabouts are one of the vanishingly few traditions we have left.
Anyway, sure, it’s an open thread, so say anything you want. If what you want is to post non sequitur whatabouts, you do you, JF.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:11 am> if Sen. Feinstein should become incapacitated to the degree where not only can she not perform her duties, but she isn’t even cognizant enough to resign her seat?
My strong suspicion based on recent behavior is that she’s actually already there. And no, there’s nothing that can be done, no process for forcing her out. I mean, I guess they could expel her, but that’s not going to happen. And I don’t know what California law says about replacing her in such a circumstance.
I voted against her in 2018 because of this (it was easy to do, while i’m not a huge fan of Loretta Sanchez, I wasn’t forced to decide between voting for her and a trumpist or between her and an anti-gay-marriage religious conservative, two decisions which would have been *hard*), and it irritated the **** out of me that California re-elected her that year.
aphrael (87f780) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:42 amNorcal,
All NeverTrump does is talk about Trump. There’s nothing else. No vusion, no alternative candidate, no oxygen for the room.
So all a 2rd party hears is that Trump is the only option other than the leftist in office.
Now that qorks for the grifters like Kristol and French, but it doesn’t work for the real world Republican looking for alternatives.
DeSantis is doing a fantastic job at making Florida a better place to live, but all yoy hear about him from NeverTrump is that he’s just another Trump. Doesm’t sound like they are actually doing anything to boost a Republican.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:29 amMaking it impossible not to vote has to be the most silly comment so far. Black people in floriduh were arrested when they tried to register and vote even though the voters passed restoring their voting rights. Voters are sent cards if they don’t send them back they are kicked off the voting roles. In floriduh voters were removed from voter roles for having similar first and last names with their middle names ignored. In Ny you had to register 6 months in advance to vote in the primary which is wht trumps children couldn’t vote for him! In many red states you have to have a govt. picture ID tovote and in some of those states if you owe fines taxes or child support you wont be issued picture id. Until recently in az. Still you have to show a birth certificate or passport to register to vote or get state id. In some southern states your voting rights can be cancelled for a misdemeanor and their is plenty more laws preventing mostly black and brown people from registering and voting. Letters are sent to black people telling them make sure their fines are paid before they try and vote. Fortunetly some of the non government letter senders have been prosecutes. I anm sure others here can add to the list of voter intimidation in their states.
asset (b960b2) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:38 am“So why did CNN decide to host Trump’s “rally” in the first place?”
I’m sure they saw that Townhall going differently. I think they mistakenly thought that a candidate can’t simply go on TV and lie and not pay a price. The Trump-amused crowd enabled Trump to use Collins as a prop and entertain by simply being outrageous. If the crowd had gasped or boo’ed when Trump for instance attacked Lt Byrd for shooting Ashli Babbitt, I think the dynamic might have been different. Trump felt no compulsion to back away from any lie or outrageous claim.
This was weird entertainment, not accountability, not reality. It was astounding to see a man just found guilty of defamation proceed to double-down on continuing the defamation…as if someone who barged into the Miss America changing room or explained that stars have special authorization could never have taken liberties with Ms. Carroll. Incredible really. As long as we have crowds that don’t insist on Trump explaining why he waited for 3 hrs to insist that his rioters cease, we have this bizarre insanity.
The crowd, or at least the vocal part of it, were ok with Trump passing responsibility to Pelosi or the DC mayor and ducking the fact that he literally sent those rioters to the Capitol. So, based on that performance, which is pretty much like 99% of Trump’s other performances, I see no value in networks hosting future townhalls or including Trump in debates. Hey, if he wants to have his own grievance pep rallies, so be it. The national debate is not furthered by enabling outright brazen lies. Just say no. It’s time for the other candidates to come on the record about Trump’s view of reality and why exactly they are more qualified for the job. There’s no more point in keeping your gunpowder dry. It’s time for both barrels to blaze.
AJ_Liberty (ce3d5c) — 5/12/2023 @ 4:38 amnorcal: “I guess we have different definitions of “Nevertrump”. To me, Nevertrump means a right-of-center voter who is against Trump.”
This is the only sensible meaning. Simply lumping Nevertrump in with Democrats is a slur. I also find it amusing that some here believe that Democrats and Nevertrump control whether the GOP base prefers Trump over DeSantis. I guess DeSantis’ support is so tenuous and the base is so reactionary that there can be no criticism of DeSantis and certainly no criticism of Trump. The GOP used to be fine with vetting….and choosing experienced candidates with no surprises. Now the GOP has to walk on eggshells to appease individuals that are struggling to see why DeSantis might be an improvement over Trump. Bah.
AJ_Liberty (ce3d5c) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:02 amProfessional wrestling.
Trump is a friend on Vince McMahon. Made his wife head of the SBA.
nk (bb1548) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:40 am“If the crowd had gasped or boo’ed when Trump for instance attacked Lt Byrd for shooting Ashli Babbitt, I think the dynamic might have been different.”
Nonsense.
Colonel Haiku (87b614) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:18 am@98
This. ALL OF THIS!
No one here wants a Trump vs Biden sequel election. Your challenge, should you choose to accept, is to look at the rest of the field and support a candidate that can win the primary and general.
Don’t let the ideal of your perfect candidate keep you from backing a candidate that can beat Trump in the primary and Biden in the general.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:53 am@101
What’s impressive is this idea that we shouldn’t respond to efforts by a corporation to fight for some teacher’s ability to teach sex topics to children.
…and you wonder why the groomer labels still have legs.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:58 am@120
Play “Will to Power Games™”…win “Will to Power Prizes™”.
Until both sides realizes this and stops playing, the status quo will only get worst.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:01 am@127
I know we bag on politicians… but, am I so naive to believe the Senator Tim Scott is one of those “good eggs” and would do really, really well as President or VP?
whembly (d116f3) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:04 amHaiku quotes a good point:
Democrats love to run on Republicans being extreme. They love running against Trump because he is extreme. Any Republican who runs against Biden will be Trump, worse than Trump, bla bla bla. My one conspiracy theory is that Bragg indicted Trump for Stormy Daniels because he guessed what we have seen might just be the result of it.
I believe that at some point, a successful GOP candidate will have to articulate why he/she is a better nominee than Trump. DiSantis has attempted Trumpism without Trump. It amounts to the difference between crack and 4 cups of coffee. Not the same rush, dude. Haley talks about age, because Trump is icky old. He does not seem any “older” than he was in 2016. Pointing out that Trump is a loser — while it satisfies me — does not seem to work. Partly, I think, because the Trump rush does not depend on him actually winning. There’s something in this from Peggy Noonan:
How do you break this? No idea. I would love someone like Pence or DeSantis or Haley to go after Trump’s illegalities and simple shameless awfulness directly. It didn’t work for Rubio. It didn’t work for Cruz. It really did not work for Chaney.
Do “ideas” and “forceful action” from other GOP members break the spell? DeSantis sems to think so, but it isn’t working for him. Brian Kemp escaped from Trump’s wrath. I feel he managed it by making Biden and the woke establishment mad (right enemies) by doing something the Trmp crowd wanted, while not being stupid about it.
Appalled (691ce8) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:19 amMy only complaint about the Trump townhall was that CNN brought in an audience laugh-track. Like it or not, he’s the GOP frontrunner, so he merited a live question-and-answer. Unfortunately, I don’t think anyone can slow down or abate his gish galloping. I don’t blame CNN for having him, I blame the serial liar for serial lying to America.
On Ukraine, Mike Martin has a good thread on the state of their counteroffensive.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:28 amTrump was “informative” at the townhall?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:33 amOy.
“How do you break this? No idea.”
I’m skeptical that it will happen at a debate, because Trump doesn’t really debate. He performs. He’s not going to win on facts or policy analysis…he wants to be memorable in being the most outrageous. Noonan, as usual, is correct. You could never go on the Daily Show and hand it to Jon Stewart. That wasn’t going to work. Here, you can’t out-Trump Trump.
I think the GOP candidates are going to have to create Trump fatigue. Surrogates are going to be critical. Ads are going to be important. There will have to be a crack in his right-wing media support, like the FNC opinionators. There has to be some sense that the upcoming Democrat ads will make it highly unlikely that Trump will win. He will be too damaged. He will lose moderates, independents, suburban women…and there are not enough angry white guys to carry him to victory. I’m sure there is some waiting for the next legal shoe to drop. I expect one or two more indictments. We will see.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:52 amJim, Kilicdaroglu sounds closer to Sufi than Sunni, which is a good thing. If he wins, I look forward to figuring out how to pronounce his name.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 8:25 amRob, what exactly did Trump say that was “informative”?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 8:47 amOxford defines the term as “providing useful or interesting information”. What “information” did Trump furnish that was useful or interesting?
[Ed. I just realized that it’s only Thursday, not Friday, so Early Weekend Open Thread…]
I thought it was Friday, too. Probably your fault.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 8:58 amYou don’t want him to go away and just shut up?
Sorry, it was unclear. I don’t care how they take him down. I would prefer it was above-board — he’s his own target-rich environment. But whatever.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:00 amYou don’t want him to go away and just shut up?
And, actually, what I’ve said is not entirely true. I would like him to get out of GOP politics. His voice, from the peanut gallery, is helpful actually. But as a candidate he sucks green donkey di*ks.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:03 amI really hope CNN holds townhalls with Haley, Scott, DeSantis, Hutchinson, that Rivek guy, etc.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:03 amI don’t know if he means me, or generic “you”.
Mostly generic, but I cannot understand the thinking of someone who actively supports Trump as the better candidate.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:05 amEw. Just ew.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:07 amYou’re far from the first guy I’ve known who is in an abusive relationship with the Golden State. “This time it will be different.”
Why do you think I want CA broken up into multiple states. I would love it if a “SoCal” state (missing LA Country) existed. That weather is really hard to beat and with the state partitioned the crazies would not have people fleeing like they are.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:08 am*LA County. But, heck, why not LA Country (or SF, for that matter)?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:09 amI wasn’t forced to decide between voting for her and a trumpist or between her and an anti-gay-marriage religious conservative
Oh, for the care-free days of Pete Wilson and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:11 am@145. The way to “respond” -if stove-piped out of favor ideologues w/political agendas choose to do so- is to dissuade the consumer of the product in the marketplace that corporation presents not by weaponizing the government for personal political purposes. So some weenies don’t like Disney? Don’t consume the product. Old colleagues in Hollywood can tell you endless, frustrating mouse tales to fry your whiskers. Employees either adapt to Disney culture or their out PDQ– and doing business w/them falls along similar lines— and that’s a legacy literally passed down from ol’dead Walt himself.
Anectdotally speaking, once quipped in a meeting about Disney’s relentless demands on some project, that “things aren’t so happy at the happiest place on Earth today, are they’- and the daggered glares in return from the Mouse Clubbers across the table were chilling. Industry folk don’t call Disney ‘Mouschwitz’ for nothing; you don’t fvck w/Disney, whembley.
DeSantis is demonstrating poor judgment if not ignorance by punching down and attacking a top employer in his state– one of the most recognized and welcomed symbols of America on Earth no less— with an average annual attendance of over 58 million visitors, Walt Disney World in Florida is the world’s most visited theme park globally.
DeSantis is not only a fool; he’s a damn idiot showing he got the brains of an ‘Ernie Smuntz’ in this. And long after he flames out, Disney will still be there welcoming tens of millions to their expensive fantasy world: ‘the happiest place on Earth’ – and ‘folks’ will be willing to pay the price to visit the kingdom built by the mouse that economically roars.
https://magicguides.com/disney-world-statistics/
“He’s Hitler with a tail. He’s “The Omen” with whiskers. Even Nostradamus didn’t see him coming!” – Ernie Smuntz [Nathan Lane] ‘Mousehunt’ 1997
DCSCA (45f268) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:29 am“…Hutchinson, that Rivek guy, etc.”
He’s taking the pulse of the Republican Party!!!
A center-right type like Rachel Dolezal is a black woman.
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:31 amFor CNN to think that Trump wouldn’t lie on TV and not pay a price for it is to be ignorant of the past 8 years and to have no understanding of the veneration of him by his supporters. It doesn’t matter to them if he lies. All he does is lie, whether on TV or at rallies, etc. Now, he did lose the last election, certainly, but as it stands, he continues to be the leading Republican contender for 2024. CNN’s actions showed Trump and his supporters that they will be willing to roll out the red carpet for him because the bottom line is: he is ratings gold. And that matters more to the company than giving him a platform to continue peddling his lies and misinformation.
Also, one thing that he did with this audience, as he regularly does, is to portray the media (Kaitlin Collins, in this case) as bad and Trump as the victim. When she confronted him in a mistruth, he called her a “nasty person”. It’s the same old us. v. them schtick, and it’s one that appeals to his supporters.
Anyway, Trump has lied with impunity for 8+ years, and he still has a stranglehold on the GOP. Why would CNN be so foolish as to believe there would be consequences at this point in time?
Dana (560c99) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:39 amYou’re far from the first guy I’ve known who is in an abusive relationship with the Golden State. “This time it will be different.”
Lol.
Dana (560c99) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:42 am“So why did CNN decide to host Trump’s “rally” in the first place?”
because Trump would do it
you think CNN wouldn’t love to host a Biden rally?
even if the questions were known in advance, with a cheerleading interviewer, Biden can’t be wheeled out to do something so daring
JF (5bfbed) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:49 amThanks for the left wing talking points, especially the dig at “angry white guys.” Very Obamaesque of you.
NJRob (e68143) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:50 am[ ] Trump/Haley 2024
[ ] Trump/DeSantis 2024
[ ] Trump/Scott 2024
Or maybe…
[ ] Trump/Manchin 2024????
[ ] Biden/Manchin 2024????
Populists are watching… if Manchin jumps in as a possible spoiler.
DCSCA (45f268) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:55 amTrump has lied with impunity for 8+ years
LOL
yeah, I believe covid came from a wet market and the laptop was russian misinformation too
and don’t forget russian bounties
JF (5bfbed) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:57 amThe conservatism here is overwhelming. A Balm for teh Soul.
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:58 amTrump has lied with impunity for 8+ years
The voice of experience: Joey’s been doing it for 50+ years.
DCSCA (45f268) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:59 am#171
Hi Haiku —
What do you want out of a non-Trump GOP Presidential candidate? Since you are in the market for one…
Appalled (691ce8) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:09 amHeh! What is a gaffe from anyone else is Trump as usual.
nk (bb1548) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:40 amFor CNN to think that Trump wouldn’t lie on TV and not pay a price for it is to be ignorant of the past 8 years and to have no understanding of the veneration of him by his supporters. It doesn’t matter to them if he lies.
I applaud CNN for this. It is useful to pin down Trump’s lies and show them to folks who forget what he is like. It also furthers the idea of equal access to the media, needed for free and open elections.
In that light, I would like other candidates to be able to have a similar Townhall, where they can contrast themselves to Trump and bring up other parts of their agendas. It might be a good path for CNN to put their “mistake” into perspective.
There is really no benefit to Trump from additional exposure, but the other candidates are starving for it. Bring DeSantis, Haley, Scott and Hutchinson into American (and/or Republican) households and see if they still think that Trump is the only way.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:54 amHeh! What is a gaffe from anyone else is Trump as usual.
For Trump, a “gaffe” is him saying “Hitler was right!” and even then his supporters would defend him.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:56 amRyan/Manchin Federalism Party ticket.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:03 am173… I’d like a candidate that will continue what Trump was able to foster before the batflu and The Wreck Of the Joseph Biden Regime: a booming economy, low inflation, strong jobs market, secured (as much as possible) southern border, no new wars, conservative judicial picks, and a strong environment for small business entrepreneurs.
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:20 am@178. RFOFLMAOPIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPZRb4_G7sc
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:30 amThe RNC Show…
Music swell, Bonnie Tyler:
“I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ’til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure, and it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life
Larger than life
Somewhere after midnight
In my wildest fantasy
Somewhere, just beyond my reach
There’s someone reaching back for me…”
Backlit, center stage, cue walk-on; enter The Donald…
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:36 amExit, stage left, Snagglepuss. Back to your BarcaLounger
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:46 amFor those conservatives disillusioned by America, Vlad Putin has an enticing offer. What a thoughtful guy. Always thinking about others. In case it gets to be too much, FWO and JF and Rob and Haiku and DC and others have a place to go.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:47 amHanna-Barbera 1961
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:47 amJames Woods
@RealJamesWoods
“If seven million potential Republican voters were strolling across our southern border, there would be tanks parked on the Rio Grande and helicopter gunships in the air.”
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:54 amFrom the Instapundit comments. I do this so you don’t have to.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:57 amDana, I have to wonder if CNN completely misread the audience dynamic….that they figured that more of the audience would want Trump held to some account (or at least not cheer and laugh along with bizarre explanations). In the time that I watched, there were no hard questions except the ones that Collins offered….and Trump talked over and through those. I was surprised that Trump is still going with election denialism and that no one from the audience seemed to care a wit. It’s like OJ trying on the glove. The CNN producers should have understood that Trump feeds off his reactions.
However, I agree that this does nail him down and provides a lot of clips for opposition ads.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:02 pm@163
Sure D… Heavy D’s a fool.
This fool’s administration just won a court case to halt the ending Title 42 at the southern border.
I’d caution anyone who’s underestimating Heavy D.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:02 pm@187. Again: Industry folk don’t call Disney ‘Mouschwitz’ for nothing; you don’t fvck w/Disney, whembley.
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:07 pm182… CHAZee!
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:07 pm@184. James Woods
@RealJamesWoods
“If seven million potential Republican voters were strolling across our southern border, there would be tanks parked on the Rio Grande and helicopter gunships in the air.”
Ahhh, but would they be vaccinated?
Notice they’re carrying pricy smartphones, too- at least as televised at the San Ysidro, CA crossing, waving them through the bars in the gates, wanting them charged off the weak CA power grid.
It’s too bad these parties have cheapened impeachment as a tool in the nation’s political toolbox. If ever a POTUS has deliberately failed to uphold his oath of office, it’s Squinty.
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:14 pmRIP Hodding Carter III (88). State Department spokesman during the Iran hostage crisis.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:18 pmJoe Manchin a populist? He’s buried deep in corporate coal.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:19 pm@181. ROFLMAO! Imagine the uproar w/t young media types if Trump stood at a microphone and said that one word: “Snagglepuss!:
Perplexed news poodles on the cablers would play the clip on a loop and fill three news cycles w/Trump skirt chasing tales.
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:20 pm@192. It would be fun to watch him jump into this.
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:22 pmPaul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:47 am
Speaking of safe havens, Washington isn’t the whitest state in the union anymore. It’s WV, so pack your bags Montagu.
JF (5bfbed) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:23 pmThe audience was a stacked deck, purposely only Republicans and “independents”. And as I pointed out above, NH Republicans are primarily Trump Republicans. So the results were no surprise to CNN. It was great television.
I look forward to similar town halls with the other candidates. DeSantis will probably have his own, but their will probably be single event with the remaining Lilliputians.
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:36 pmFrom the news stories thread:
RL formerly in Glendale (7a2d64) — 5/10/2023 @ 2:55 pm
Sort of like what Bess Myerson did to (probably) bribe a judge.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1990/12/08/controversial-ny-judge-hortense-gabel-dies/75f6bded-1a56-4915-b8f0-9920024e3a81
Sukhreet wasn’t her original name. It wasn’t much of a job, but she couldn’t get a job.
And there’s now the bribery conviction the Supreme Court just overturned. A man who worked (and later came back to work for) New York Governor Andrew Cuomo was convicted of honest services fraud. But at the time he was paid off, he was working for Cuomo”s re-election campaign.
Justice Alito didn’t say absolutely that he wasn’t covered by the law, but said the jury instructions were (a little bit?) too broad.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/11/us/politics/supreme-court-fraud-albany-percoco-ciminelli.html
Apparently, the jury needed to find that successful lobbying or general reputation was not the reason the defendant had been successful in influencing policy or contracts.
Actually, I’m not sure what’s the difference between that and “people working in the government actually relied on him because of a special relationship he had with the government.” or dominating and controlled any governmental business” but there was something about the jury instructions that Alito didn’t like.
Maybe it was necessary to prove that the people nominally in charge, weren’t really? Is there something missing from the New York Times story? Or maybe the court was punting?
They’ve been very wary of indirect bribery
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:57 pm“If seven million potential Republican voters were strolling across our southern border, there would be tanks parked on the Rio Grande and helicopter gunships in the air.”
No, it would be milder, as it is with the Ukrainians.
The Democrats know that, even if, for foreign policy and economic reasons, an immigrant group would tend to vote Republican, Republican antagonism will turn them against them, as it is doing with Asians.
And they’re not looking for immediate votes, or even for people being counted in the Census since the next Census isn’t for another seven years and the next reapportioned districts, nine years.
Attributing these specific motives to Democrats is just another lie here, and maybe goes with false vote fraud allegations. The Democrats have better reasons. But they try to keep things on a “need-to-know” basis.
It’s current voters and citizens they are trying to affect.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:05 pmJF (5bfbed) — 5/12/2023 @ 12:23 pm
Because it’s losing population. The remaining inhabitants are not getting richer though.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:07 pmDCSCA,
DeSantis is not auditioning for a job in the entertainment industry. He’s looking for a worthy enemy to joust with, for the entertainment of the GOP faithful. There’s no reaon for him to stop and no reason for everyone to believe he will ultimately lose in a battle to take away a special concssion the state goverment gave to nobody else in Florida. I’m not sure handing him a defeat in a battle in a way that mocked Ron was the way to go. That put DeSantis in a position where he has to go all out to win.
Ron D knows Disney is not really able to just pull out of Orlando. That gives him more power to play populist bully. (And isn’t populism about storming the castle? And doesn’t Disney Worl have a literal castle? Hm?)
Appalled (691ce8) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:10 pmhttps://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1656831176244449281
NJRob (57ec31) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:12 pmBirddog,
You’re a leftist. Go join your commies in their hellholes and leave America to Americans.
NJRob (57ec31) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:14 pm@200. DeSantis is not auditioning for a job in the entertainment industry…
Except he is:
During his presidency, Reagan was asked whether he had learned anything as an actor that had been useful to him as a president. “There have been times in this office,” Reagan responded, “when I wondered how you could do the job if you hadn’t been an actor.”
Analysis: Why actors make for better presidents
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/30/politics/president-reagan-trump-acting-cnn-film/index.html#:~:text=During%20his%20presidency%2C%20Reagan%20was%20asked%20whether%20he,the%20job%20if%20you%20hadn%E2%80%99t%20been%20an%20actor.%E2%80%9D
Don’t kid yourself, Appalled: never underestimate Disney. They can pull out of Florida just as Musk bailed on California for Texas. Business professionals and old colleagues [some who know current CEO Bob Iger personally BTW] will tell you DeSantis is a damn fool for going to war with Walt’s legacy and a top employer in his state. The Houe of Mouse is literally an American icon; an ambassador for all that is good about the USA around the world…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walt_Disney_Company
It is axiomatic w/t powers the be in industry, commerce and smart politicians, Appalled: you just mess w/t ‘happiest place on Earth’… you don’t fvck w/Disney.
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:27 pmThe New York Post on Tuesday May 9, had a few additional facts:
Number of people waiting at Ciudad Juarez to cross to El Paso without prior permission: Up to 35,000 (they never give, for comparison, the number of people , both American citizens and other who cross the border every day – a deliberate omission, in my opinion)
Number of people waiting at Tijuana to cross to San Diego, California o without prior permission: “Up to 16,000”
Number of people waiting at Matamoros to cross to Brownsville, Texas o without prior permission: “hundreds” but 15,000 crossed in “recent days”
Number of people waiting in transit through Mexico: 3,500
Number of people (detained?) by Mexican authorities in Tapachula, Chiapas: “approximately 60,000”
Number of people from South America (according to the Guatemalan government) in Guatemala, heading to the Mexican border: “about 80,000”
————————-
Some richer people, who have hopes of asylum, or something, are flying in private planes to small airports near the Mexican-U.S. border.
You may already know that 40 people died in a fire, and the Mexican immigration commissioner has been under criminal investigation
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/prosecutors-probe-mexico-immigration-chief-over-fire-that-killed-40-migrants-2023-04-12
Also: Number of people New York City Mayor Adams wanted to put up in a hotel in Rockland County (violating zoning laws) 30 to 60.
Number of people who died in March in a 2-family home in Spring Valley, Rockland County where 18 people had been living: 5.
waiting at Matamoros to cross to Brownsville, Texas o without prior permission:at Matamoros to cross to Brownsville, Texas o without prior permission:
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:30 pm^just don’t
DCSCA (022b11) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:30 pmDCSCA:
There are not a lot of places for Disney to move DWorld to just to get a win in the woke wars. Texas? Mississippi? Alabama? Think of the cost. Think of whether there is a gop governor willing to cut them a deal. Think infrastructure. It’s not like you can just plop this on Grand Bahama.
Appalled (cb2d0d) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:50 pmtbf, Disney can play the long game until a more favorable governance is elected.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/12/2023 @ 1:53 pm@206. For Disney, the woke crap is a passing fad; and if they created a ‘Wokie’ animated figure to joust w/a light sabered Star Wars Wookie, which they already own BTW, they’d turn it into a Disney villain a la Darth Vader– or Scrooge McDuck–and then a ride. Maybe they could use Liz Cheney as a model. 😉
@207. Yep. I’m certainly no Disney fan, if only from my business experience in dealing w/them in Hollywood, which is contrast w/their wholesome, goodie-goodie image — [if you think Trumpists are a “cult,” you ought to spend some time dealing w/Disney people on their own turf in Burbank. Yikes! It’s creepy.] But waging war w/t ‘happiest place on Earth’ is a fool’s errand. You can try to deal, even compromise, but they always have the leverage.
DCSCA (ed62d2) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:12 pmIt is difficult for corporate establishment democrats to run on issues so as not to offend the donor class. AOC and the left runs on medicare for all, raising minimum wage and tax the rich. The donor class opposes all of these. Social issues are the only thing the clinton/biden establishment wing can run on that wont offend the donor class. That is why abortion ruling was such a god send to them. 2024 campaign republicans Trannies and illegal aliens. Democrats insurrection and abortion vote democrat or use a coat hanger!
asset (e41f75) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:17 pmhttps://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-hatchet-subway-attack-20190429-4obnogi2qrexni5ess6xycrtaq-story.html
I don’t know if this story checks out.
He says he saw Neely about an hour before he died (they were both street performers) and he had his hat in his hand and was dragging his Michael Jackson jacket on the ground. He thought someone ad taken is bucket of tips and his T-shirt didn’t look too clean bt he didn’t speak to him.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:18 pmKevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 11:03 am
I thought it was Manchin/Ryan No Labels party tricket.
Sammy Finkelman) (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:25 pmGeorge Santos has been indicted on esssentially three financial crimes.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:30 pm“ The Democrats know that, even if, for foreign policy and economic reasons, an immigrant group would tend to vote Republican, Republican antagonism will turn them against them, as it is doing with Asians.
These aren’t immigrants from former Soviet Bloc nations (who would “tend” to vote Republican.
Those cretins beating, robbing, sometimes murdering Asian-Americans that we’ve been seeing these past two years sure aren’t Republican, Sammy. Why would you think they are?
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:31 pmThe way to do that is to lower interest rates and get economic growth going.
Or else the trillion dollar coin(s)
Where things are heading now is a short term extension of the deadline through either a small increase in the debt limit or authorization to borrow any amount till Sept 30. They’re trying to fold it in with the budget talks. They are extremely unlikely to reach agreement.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:34 pmThe trouble with the allegation is that I don’t think that Biden had much influence on Obama Administration policy.
But Hunter or Joe’s brother Jim – and Joe himself – could lie about his influence.
We don’t know just what the allegation is.
But the thing that Republicans are complaining about is that the allegation, true or false, plausible or implausible, was buried.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:39 pm@215. Populists have little tolerance left for this maybe-sorta-tease-crap. The GOP is playing w/a hand grenade w/t pin pulled… if they can’t be definitive with these allegations this is going to blow up in their faces.
DCSCA (6113f1) — 5/12/2023 @ 2:49 pmLest you forget, Disney is the same outfit that produced this Oscar winning classic in 1943:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L90smU0SOcQ&t=3s
And just a 12 years later, in 1955, produced THIS for the kiddies of the time to consume on their TeeVees:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_N3EYMgya4
Note a certain ex-Nazi, who worked for Hitler, is Disney’s key ‘go-to authority’ in this classic.
DCSCA (6113f1) — 5/12/2023 @ 3:22 pm#152 – Paul, that’s what I was speculating, too, when I read about that branch of Islam. France24 was saying this afternoon that Kilicdaroglu might win on the first round. If a candidate gets 50 percent, plus 1, he wins outright; if no candidates does, then there is a second round runoff. He is at, or just over, 50 percent in the polls. Though I should add that Turkish polls do not have a high reputation.
If he does win, and his win is accepted, there will be a large sigh of relief in NATO headquarters.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/12/2023 @ 3:50 pmDianne Feinstein returned to Washington, D.C. on Tuesday – she was supposed to vote that day, but didn’t.
Sammy Finkelnan (57cd49) — 5/12/2023 @ 3:51 pmThe announcers seemed to know how to pronounce his name, but I am going to have to hear it several more times, before I try to do so.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/12/2023 @ 3:52 pmKey liege da rogue loo.
nk (bb1548) — 5/12/2023 @ 4:28 pmI look forward to similar town halls with the other candidates. DeSantis will probably have his own, but their will probably be single event with the remaining Lilliputians.
Why? Do we really need more media framing? Polls –> access –> polls. Why can’t the media just play it straight for once? Do they think they’ve been a positive influence the last several elections, with their access control and follow-the-leader cheerleading?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 4:53 pmThere are not a lot of places for Disney to move DWorld to just to get a win in the woke wars. Texas? Mississippi? Alabama? Think of the cost. Think of whether there is a gop governor willing to cut them a deal. Think infrastructure. It’s not like you can just plop this on Grand Bahama.
Think about losing every vote 30 miles around Orlando. If it wasn’t for Disney World, no one would live there.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 4:54 pmI thought it was Manchin/Ryan No Labels party ticket.
Label have meaning. To me “No Labels” say they want us all to stop bickering, as if the arguments have no merit. It’s quite condescending.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 4:57 pmKey liege da rogue loo.
1) He should change it.
2) “With a name like Mangled Baby Ducks, you know it has to be good”
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:02 pmMore interesting:
A two-hour debate format with DeSantis, Scott, Haley and Hutchinson. “The Contenders”
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:04 pmHi aphrael, dana, colonel, Kevin, rob, etal.
JD (52df64) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:24 pmI’m guessing you haven’t been to Orlando in ages. That was once the case, but hasn’t been for quite some time. Universal alone gets an insane number of daily visitors. The amount of construction in Orlando expanding the highways, building new high rises, etc is something to behold. It’s the exact opposite of Manhattan which is falling apart.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:25 pmI’m in moderation ?!?!
JD (52df64) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:31 pmHey, JD! It’s been a long time, hope you’re doing well.
Colonel Haiku (384e10) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:38 pmHey JD.
No moderation as far as I can see.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:51 pmhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/05/the-daily-chart-the-falling-wages-of-bidenomics.php
While there are many that try and spin Biden’s destructive policies with manipulated data, there’s no hiding how real world income has collapsed under his watch. People are poorer and everyone but those who are insulated from his destructive policies are feeling it.
There’s a reason that every poll coming out has Trump and DeSantis crushing Biden.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 5:55 pmHi JD. Pretty much the same old, same old.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:19 pmI thought that Trump vs Hillary was the pinnacle of American electoral stupidity. Only to be outdone by Trump running against Biden. Shockingly, we are on track to embarrass ourselves again.
Keep praying for the Sweet Meteor of Death to put us out of our misery.
JD (52df64) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:29 pmIt’s pretty terrible when you realize that the ancient scale of “1 to 10” is in binary.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:40 pmRCP National Polling Average:
Trump v. Biden: Trump +.7
DeSantis v. Biden: Biden +3
Rip Murdock (92c5be) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:43 pm538 shows only one poll (ABC/WaPo) showing Biden losing to Trump and DeSantis. More recent Yahoo News/YouGov and Morning Consult surveys show Biden ahead of both, though within the margin of error.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:50 pmIt is 100% fair to look at almost any poll as overstating Dem support, or understating Rep support.
JD (52df64) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:53 pmA good way to deny that Republicans may be behind at any given time. Would you accept the polling results from Nov. 5, 2024 if they went against your preconceived assumptions?
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:05 pmHistory has shown time and time again that polling almost universally does as I outlined. There are obviously some outliers, but they are outliers. Future hypothetical polls and elections are unlikely to alter my views unless the media and pollsters change their processes. Which they aren’t doing.
I’m not denying anything, I think it’s a shlt process and has proven to be a shlt process over time.
JD (52df64) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:17 pmRip,
you never post a single poll showing republican support yet claim to be one. Why is that?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:24 pmhttps://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/us/general_election_desantis_vs_biden-7967.html
According to your own link Rip, it has DeSantis in a tie (with old polls) yet you posted inaccurate information with Biden up by 3? Why is that?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:26 pmWe also know using “adults” or “registered voter” is a way to skew the polling result to the left, but you never mention that.
Expecting ballot harvesting to come through for your preferred candidate?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:28 pmMy bad. Thanks for catching.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:29 pmThen again with DeSantis so far behind Trump in the Morning Consult tracking poll (Trump +41) he has a lot of ground to make up among Republicans.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:33 pmI hope so.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:42 pmRight now I’m more interested in the Republican primary race, so all the polls are about Republican support.
I’ll get to the general election when the nominees are decided-I don’t expect Biden to be the Democratic nominee. My bet is he will a) be impeached (though the House is running out of time); or b) pull out for “health” reasons.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:51 pmIt is 100% fair to look at almost any poll as overstating Dem support, or understating Rep support.
JD (52df64) — 5/12/2023 @ 6:53 pm
Thanks to mail in voting, which caters to the slacker demographic, I don’t think this is true anymore.
We’re going to see many repeats of the fake 2022 red wave.
Yet another thing to thank Nevertrump for.
JF (b2d267) — 5/12/2023 @ 8:58 pmDid you know subway chokehold casualty Jordan Neely was once arrested for trying to kidnap a 7-year-old girl? The ex-Marine’s arrest is an outrage and a disgrace – so yes: business as usual for DA Bragg
JF (b2d267) — 5/12/2023 @ 9:25 pmI’ve voted by mail for the past 30+ years because I hate waiting in lines, being in crowds, and dealing with people in general.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:01 pmI’m not denying anything, I think it’s a shlt process and has proven to be a shlt process over time.
Especially since the election is 18 months away. That’s what, 6 eternities?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:01 pmI’ve voted by mail for the past 30+ years because I hate waiting in lines, being in crowds, and dealing with people in general.
I’m glad I was sitting down.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:03 pmAnd I can do 90% of my shopping online. Case closed.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:12 pmWhat’s your problem with that?
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/12/2023 @ 10:34 pmSince we don’t vote nationally. National polls are meaningless. Hillary clinton and joe biden led in every national poll and both got more votes then trump in their elections. In 2016 trump won electoral collage by 75,000 votes in 3 states and lost in 2020 by 43,000 votes in 3 states. Polls in swing states are less accurate ;but are much more meaningful then national polls. That biden got 81 million votes to trumps 73 million has no real meaning election wise.
asset (b3825a) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:34 amI do leave the couch on occasion, and I second JD regarding polls. As a rule of thumb, polls undercount Republicans versus Democrats by around 7%. If they are ever close, it’s by mistake. Nobody’s perfect.
nk (bd5a45) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:58 amgovernment in Maine has warned voters not sign no labels party petition. Democrats still remember what jill stein did to clinton.
asset (b3825a) — 5/13/2023 @ 3:05 am“Hate” s too strong a word. “Dislike” is more accurate.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 3:24 amJill Stein was a Russian … asset.
See, where people confuse the issue is when they conflate “collusion” with “interference”.
Putin did not need to tell Trump that he had Stein working to steal the Democrat loons from Hillary. He likewise did not need to tell Stein that her purpose was to get Trump elected.
Compartmentalization. Need to know. He simply guided their vanity, ambition and cupidity and, voila, Vlad’s your daddy!
nk (bd5a45) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:07 am@234. I thought that Trump vs Hillary was the pinnacle of American electoral stupidity. Only to be outdone by Trump running against Biden. Shockingly, we are on track to embarrass ourselves again.
Think again: November 7, 2012
“How can 59,054,087 people be so dumb?”: Classic Daily Mirror US election front pages through the years
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/classic-daily-mirror-us-election-front-1421769
DCSCA (5089a8) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:24 am@248. Thanks to mail in voting, which caters to the slacker demographic, I don’t think this is true anymore.
Slackers? Pass the Grey Poupon. Yeah, like we all have Tuesdays off in November to spend a day standing in line signing in to deal read through a ballot in a booth- as in the case of California- that’s a small book and takes damn near an hour to read through and decipher the double-talk of dozens of ‘propositions’ with antique voting machines. =sarc=
DCSCA (5089a8) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:43 amThere were two cartoons in Politico’s weekly collection that I especially liked, Kevin Siers’s variation on a well-known red baseball cap, and Kal’s depiction of the fight over the depiction.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:12 amRip,
Pomerantz didn’t rebuff questions. He pled the 5th, but may have waived his right due to his book demanding Trukp’s prosecution as well as his other public remarks.
But I understand why you’d push that spin on things.
NJRob (c919ed) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:31 amHere is Pomerantz’s statement:
https://twitter.com/AnnieGrayerCNN/status/1657061841665753088
He uses several tactics to refuse to answer the committee’s questions and admits he is doing so. I don’t think much of the prosecution but think less of the committee’s attempts to mess around with a state matter.
Appalled (c3852a) — 5/13/2023 @ 9:10 amMorning NJ-
Feel free to post another characterization of Pomerantz’s testimony.
BTW, I responded to your comments to me in posts 244-247.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 9:23 amI don’t think much of the prosecution but think less of the committee’s attempts to mess around with a state matter.
Appalled (c3852a) — 5/13/2023 @ 9:10 am
presidential elections are a federal matter
if you think the prosecution was a state matter you can go ahead and pull my other finger
JF (17cdb6) — 5/13/2023 @ 9:25 amWhich candidate has the best plan for cutting the deficit and putting us on a glide path to fiscal sanity? So far, no one will address entitlements, we’re getting locked and loaded for battle with China, and there is no dearth of suggestions for industrial plans, subsidies, and new federal initiatives. And we talk about Disney.
Everytime we add some new spending measure, the CBO should score it and automatically generate an across-the-board tax increase. This might start to wake up people that there is no free stuff. Passing it on to the next generation is criminal. I understand the call for Keynesian response when the economy is lagging, but we’ve shown that there is no constraint to this. We will have a fiscal implosion at some point if we don’t have a major war first. Is this what we want to leave to the next generation?
Our clown-car eye-gouging is Stoogian but so short sighted. We should encourage and elevate sober politicians who move to the middle and seek compromise. Everything else is doing the Curly Shuffle.
AJ_Liberty (88224b) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:09 amSad!
……….
Russian state news agency TASS said an Su-34 fighter and a Mi-8 helicopter went down Saturday in Russia’s Bryansk region. Another Mi-8 and a Su-35 also crashed, according to Russian military correspondents and an official of a Russian proxy state that claims territory in eastern Ukraine.
Meanwhile, Russia claimed that Ukraine used U.K.-supplied cruise missiles in strikes on Luhansk, an area controlled by Russian forces in eastern Ukraine.
…………
At least two crew members died in Saturday’s aircraft crashes, Russian state media reported, and videos showed wreckage on fire in a wooded area. Bryansk governor Alexander Bogomaz wrote on Telegram that a woman was injured and five homes damaged in one crash in Klintsy, a town 30 miles from the Ukrainian border.
The cause of the downings wasn’t clear. TASS cited emergency services blaming engine fire, but some Russian military correspondents suggested the aircraft could have been ambushed by Ukrainian special forces using shoulder-mounted missiles.
………….
In the past two days, blasts have hit a fuel depot and an industrial compound in the Russian-occupied eastern city of Luhansk and a nearby suburb. Luhansk, some 70 miles from the nearest Ukrainian positions, hadn’t been targeted since the war began because it is outside the range of Ukrainian artillery and U.S.-supplied Himars missile systems.
Russia and the local authorities it backs there said the attacks were carried out by new, Storm Shadow air-to-ground cruise missiles supplied by the U.K. Military analysts speculated that Kyiv is already using the new missiles, but the Ukrainians have declined to comment on whether it has deployed them.
…………
Germany announced Saturday its biggest package of military equipment for Ukraine to date, worth a total of 2.7 billion euros, equivalent to about $2.93 billion. It includes mobile artillery systems and artillery ammunition, four new IRIS-T SLM air-defense systems of the kind already deployed around Ukraine and additional missiles for those systems.
The package also includes 30 Leopard 1 main battle tanks and 20 more lightly armored Marder infantry fighting vehicles, according to a list published by the German Defense Ministry.
Germany has become the third-largest supplier of military aid to Ukraine after the U.S. and the U.K., according to a ranking compiled by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a think tank.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:10 am……………
government in Maine has warned voters not sign no labels party petition.
This in a state that has repeatedly elected “independents” (aka closeted Democrats) to high office.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:15 pmgovernment in Maine has warned voters not sign no labels party petition.
Also, wtf is “government” doing warning people about their political choices?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:17 pmPomerantz didn’t rebuff questions. He pled the 5th
No, he pled that answering those questions could have caused his prosecution under NY law, as he was required to maintain the confidentiality of grand jury testimony and active investigations.
It’s a different form of the 5th that we are used to: he didn’t say that he would be revealing a crime he had committed, but that answering the questions would BE a crime, and therefore “self-incrimination.”
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:29 pmThe committee could have offered Pomerantz federal immunity, but that would not have helped as they were demanding he commit a crime under NY law.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:31 pmif you think the prosecution was a state matter you can go ahead and pull my other finger
You need to go back and read some stuff.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:32 pmYou need to go back and read some stuff.
The Tenth Amendment first.
nk (06ddcf) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:40 pmYeah. There is a Supremacy Clause, but there is no federal law claiming to override state criminal and judicial procedure, so that doesn’t work.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:45 pmYou’re a liar, Rob.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:48 pm@268. And we talk about Disney.
No, DeSantis talks about Disney. It’s a tell about his lack of good judgment. Don’t transfer his foolishness and obsession w/wokeness on to others.
DCSCA (9cc604) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:51 pmSo, the NC legislature passed a law that limits elective abortions to 12 weeks, akin to the law in France and Germany, but was modified in negotiations to have later limits for cause:
Governor Cooper (D), an abortion rights absolutist, promised to veto. He has been on a pro-abortion advocacy campaign for the last several weeks, berating local legislators for their votes “against women’s rights.” Planned Parenthood has been active in his support.
The NC legislature is exactly 2/3rds GOP in each house. I’m sure some court will block the law if it passes, on some dubious reading of the state constitution. Who knew that “Roe” would have to be overturned at the state level, too.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:53 pmYou’re a liar, Rob.
Hey, Paul, you can retort better than that.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:57 pmThe movement of NC to the left will now stop.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 12:58 pmSurprising:
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 1:06 pmThe Economist on the Xi’s regime and his diplomatic approach here. The final paragraphs.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/13/2023 @ 1:27 pmNo need to. That’s just what he did.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/13/2023 @ 1:28 pmPlayers are not happy you cannot pet the dog in Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom
Why can’t “you people” concern yourselves with what’s really important, instead of Biden this and Trump that and abortion and the border and California and all that other mish-mosh?
nk (06ddcf) — 5/13/2023 @ 1:58 pm#221 Thanks, nk. For those who missed it, here’s how to pronounce the lat name of the Turkish challenger, Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu: Key liege da rogue loo.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/13/2023 @ 1:58 pmI agree with JD and nk about the polling. I’m unaware of an election cycle in recent memory in which the polls significantly overestimated Republican support. That includes the 2022 polls, which were the most accurate this century. Conversely there have been a number of cycles with underestimated Republican support. Maybe the unbiased 2022 polls signaled a change in that trend, but until I see a cycle that significantly underestimates Republican support I’m assuming the likeliest range is between unbiased and biased-Democrat.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:11 pmToday was not a good day for the Russia air force, what with five downed aircraft, which means it’s a good day for Ukraine and their imminent (I hope) counteroffensive.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:15 pmAs soon as Republicans (and particularly MAGA Republicans) adopt the now-inevitable mail-in ballot, the polling will again overcount Democrats who have a slightly lower voted/polled ratio, everything else being equal.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:25 pmSpeaking of dogs, how about happy birthday for this 31-year-old. I think that’s 217 people-years.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:28 pmMore not-good news for Putin.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:31 pmWhat amazes me most about the Trump-Biden contest is how much of the MAGA economic policies that Biden has co-opted. Even more amazing is that it is mostly the MAGA Congresspeople who oppose the MAGA policies proposed by Biden.
(Jonah Goldberg at The Dispatch)
He goes on to call MAGA NatCons “Anti-abortion New Dealers”, a label some of them gleefully accept.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:36 pmLuckily for Prigozhin, there are no high buildings left in Bakhmut.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:39 pmYou’re a liar, Rob.
I think I missed a key reference. Who’s “Birddog?”
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:42 pmQuestion: When they are about to lose Crimea, what will the Russians do?
1. Use “tactical” nukes on advancing Ukrainian troops?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:42 pm2. Use real nukes on Ukrainain cities?
3. Scuttle their ships in harbor and flee?
4. Surrender Crimea and ask for asylum?
The helicopter “crashes” seem to be attributed to Ukrainian special forces with now-ubiquitous Stinger-type missiles.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 2:47 pm1&2; though the Russians would use a tactical nuclear weapon against Ukrainian cities. Their ICBMs are targeted against the US (and maybe China) and the resulting radiation from them would drift into the Russian homeland.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 4:04 pmBeing an Unlikable Jerk Not Working Out So Well for Ron DeSantis
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/05/ron-desantis-unlikeable
DCSCA (c90975) — 5/13/2023 @ 4:13 pm“Who’s “Birddog?””
I think that’s Paul’s real name
AJ_Liberty (192406) — 5/13/2023 @ 4:39 pmBirddog is someone who uses multiple names to hide under while posting the same thing in different locations.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/13/2023 @ 4:45 pm@281 You are wrong. It begins! 2022 was supposed to be your year it was not. Only because voters in NY were fed up with corrupt establishment corporate democrats did they vote for republicans in safe pro-abortion state of ny. One democrat who lost to george santos looked like a wanted poster put around a child’s play ground! A woman who had an abortion was just shot in texas. Its time biden send in the troops and clean house in texas.
asset (6cdff8) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:07 pmDeSantis take a running leap at a rolling donut. Not a run for President.
Good Samaritans do not slowly choke a man to death over a period of three minutes while two others are holding his arms, asshole!
Thugs do that! Literally Thugs of the Thuggee cult in India who worked in teams of three, two arm-holders and a strangler.
DeSantis is now officially a piece of shi!t in my fecal roster.
nk (7998d4) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:23 pmJust noticed my last sentence was so sloppy, including a major substantive typo, that it muddled the whole comment. It was probably clear enough where I was going, but just in case, here it is again, this time hopefully more coherent:
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:44 pmMaybe 2022 signaled a change, but until I see a polling cycle that significantly overstates Republican support, I’ll assume polling bias will continue trending somewhere between unbiased and, more likely, biased-Democrat.
the Russians would use a tactical nuclear weapon against Ukrainian cities.
There is no such thing as a “tactical” nuclear weapon outside of self-delusion. You hit a city with a 10kT bomb and, well, like Hiroshima. Maybe you don’t get the suburbs, but you kill 100s or thousands of people and the inevitable response is Biblical.
Most people have no actual concept of what a thermonuclear bomb would do. One of the reasons they exploded them in the 50s was to give the politicians an understanding of what a terrible, no good, awful idea it was to open that box.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:47 pm* 100s OF thousands
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:48 pmOh, for Pete’s sake. I have no idea where I dropped the HTML tag, but I’m going to stop embarrassing myself and just leave it. If it’s still unclear, feel free to say so and I’ll try again.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:48 pmIts time biden send in the troops and clean house in texas.
That’s pretty crazy.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:50 pmGood Samaritans do not slowly choke a man to death over a period of three minutes while two others are holding his arms, asshole!
The man continued to struggle, and his training was to hold them until they passed out. Others were helping him, which seems to pass the “reasonable person” test. It just went wrong. He is only being prosecuted to assuage the mob, like Lot offering his daughters.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:52 pmWhat training? Marines? If so, and I’m not being snarky so correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that training for what to do with a battlefield enemy?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:01 pmYup. I’d charge him with second degree murder. Wanton indifference.
nk (7998d4) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:07 pmMarines are trained to kill an enemy, not allow them to survive another day.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:07 pmMarines are trained to kill an enemy, not allow them to survive another day.
Were you a Marine?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:12 pmIF he wanted to kill him, there are far quicker ways to do it, and he knew all of them. He was trying to constrict blood flow until he passed out. You assume facts not in evidence.
The problem is not Penny’s and it’s not even Neely’s. It’s a callous and unresponsive bureaucratic cabal that foists crazy people onto the public so the bureaucracy doesn’t have to deal with them.
Now they say to the public, “It is wrong to incarcerate crazy people, and you you try to deal with this yourselves, we will put you in jail.”
Storm the castle.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:18 pm* and IF you
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:18 pmThe WSJ has it right (free link)
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:21 pmRussia’s mobile rocket systems can launch both missiles with nuclear (aka battlefield) and nonnuclear warheads. They are not intercontinental missiles and their ranges are limited to Europe.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:22 pmIs it time to rebuild the state hospital systems that many states abandoned in the 1970s? Is is kind to let bewildered and largely defenseless people forage for their livelihood in the concrete jungle?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:25 pmRip: I repeat: self-delusion. It’s like calling a .22 caliber gun a nonlethal firearm.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:29 pmIn contrast to the U.S., Russia has dozens of systems capable of delivering a nuclear warhead
The US has long since decided there is no such thing, and intends to respond to ANY nuclear attack with the same response set. If Russia wants to pretend that we won’t do that, then Russia is going to get a surprise.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:31 pmSpeaking of Belarus, their dictator is, apparently, not well:
And according to news reports, hasn’t appeared in public, since. According to Belarusian media, he has been taken to a hospital.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/13/2023 @ 6:53 pmThe US has long since decided there is no such thing,
A longstanding mistake by our policymakers.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:10 pmReformatted for clarity:
A longstanding mistake by our policymakers.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:14 pmDid anyone tell the Russians? I don’t think the US would retaliate if the Russians used a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine. And the Russians could roll the dice and bet that domestic political pressures would prevent the US and Europe from doing so. I could see the MAGA wing of the Republican Party running on a No-War platform to prevent any direct military intervention in Ukraine.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:20 pmNk,
Your response to a good samaritan is disappointing.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:25 pmNo, but I have family members who were/are.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:34 pmGood Samaritans do not slowly choke a man to death over a period of three minutes while two others are holding his arms, asshole!
Thugs do that! Literally Thugs of the Thuggee cult in India who worked in teams of three, two arm-holders and a strangler.
DeSantis is now officially a piece of shi!t in my fecal roster.
nk (7998d4) — 5/13/2023 @ 5:23 pm
42 arrests, one for attempted kidnapping of a 7 year old girl
at the time of his death, he had an active warrant for his arrest for assaulting a 67 year old woman
Neely shouldn’t have been on the streets, but since the NYC authorities did nothing, an ex-Marine did
the others holding him down weren’t charged — why?
but he’s thug, right nk?
you weren’t there nk, but you know better. The 66 year old eyewitness there on the train is just another asshole
JF (55ca2d) — 5/13/2023 @ 7:55 pm“The man continued to struggle”
He was being choked to death.
“The problem is not Penny’s and it’s not even Neely’s”
People are responsible for their own actions.
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:12 pmI have read about vigilantes strangling a man for being a public nuisance, but that was in 1864 in Virginia City and they had the courtesy to use a rope.
nk (6c45b4) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:12 pm“Your response to a good samaritan is disappointing.”
What does the parable of the good Samaritan teach us, NJRob?
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:17 pmI have read about vigilantes strangling a man for being a public nuisance, but that was in 1864 in Virginia City and they had the courtesy to use a rope.
nk (6c45b4) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:12 pm
you say Virginia City, I say Uvalde
JF (55ca2d) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:19 pmCalling this guy a “Good Samaritan” is blasphemy.
nk (6c45b4) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:21 pmthere you go upsetting the Pharisees again, NJRob
JF (55ca2d) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:26 pmJoseph Wambaugh’s LAPD called the chokehold “doing the chicken” because of the way that the victim would thrash and flail.
nk (08690f) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:44 pmOh, yeah, one more thing:
You have nothing to say that I want to hear.
nk (08690f) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:48 pmI see both sides with Neely. On one hand, NYC is negligent in allowing homeless and mentally troubled individuals to make their home in the subway. It is also pretty bad that subway police were no where to be found. You put passengers in unsettling circumstances, stuff like this can happen. The city has some moral responsibility in this tale.
On the other hand, Penny really did not have a great plan. Leaving a choke hold on too long can kill someone…this shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s monday morning quarterbacking, but he should have released the hold and reassessed the situation. He seemed to have plenty of help so there was not an immediate threat. Now, you never know how Neely would react to the whole situation, but this is the problem with no police or subway operator responding. It’s tough to know exactly how much force to apply. I would seek some proportionality, Maybe being in teh hold for a few minutes would cause him to backdown and be less aggressive.
I would have a hard time convicting him. The lawyers will put the jury in his no-win situation. They might look for a lesser charge but the testimony of the witnesses will be important, especially the one that wanted the hold released.
AJ_Liberty (192406) — 5/13/2023 @ 8:56 pmA longstanding mistake by our policymakers.
Or perhaps a short-lived mistake by Russia.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:04 pmI fully expect this Neely story to be featured in a Law and Order episode come this fall.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:05 pmDid anyone tell the Russians?
YOU know it. I bet the Russians do too. Their warplanners act as if they don’t believe us, but let them hit Kiev with a nuke and see what happens. I’d bet a megaton on Minsk.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:06 pmI fully expect this Neely story to be featured in a Law and Order episode come this fall.
Writer’s strike.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:06 pmGood Samaritans do not slowly choke a man to death over a period of three minutes while two others are holding his arms, asshole!
He didn’t “choke” him. He slowed the blood flow to the brain, which is supposed to cause unconsciousness. The others were right there with them, and the guy recording it admits he feared for his life. This wasn’t unprovoked. It was “in defense of others” and it’s one of the things that happens when you threaten a bunch of people with harm.
Question: What are New Yorkers supposed to do with all the crazies the city lets loose on the street? Lay back and think of England?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:10 pmNow, you never know how Neely would react to the whole situation
Such as pull a knife and stab someone? It’s really fine for people, at their computer and not in any danger, to make judgements here.
I favor a new law for New York: All government employees must ride the subway to work. Including the DA and Mayor.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:14 pmThey might look for a lesser charge but the testimony of the witnesses will be important, especially the one that wanted the hold released.
Perhaps, but manslaughter 2 is already reduced. And again, people defending themselves need only act “reasonably” not perfectly.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:15 pmI fully expect this Neely story to be featured in a Law and Order episode come this fall.
Writer’s strike.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:06 pm
Good point. And yet, I suspect writers are continuing to write, and will have a lot of material ready to go when the strike is over.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/13/2023 @ 10:33 pm@317 the mentally ill were supposed to go to federally funded half way houses. Do gooders always say that because they wanted the warehousing of the serious mentally ill stopped. Guess what reagan did with the money instead.
asset (f50aa7) — 5/14/2023 @ 1:33 amHe slowed the blood flow to the brain, which is supposed to cause unconsciousness.
Is that science? Because doctors I have talked to tell me that the best case scenario is blood clots in the carotids which travel to the brain resulting in strokes. And LAPD Chief Daryl Gates said “blacks might be more likely to die from chokeholds because their arteries do not open as fast as they do in ‘normal people'”. And then we had Eric Garner, also in New York, whose “compression of neck” was “homicide by suffocation” not by cessation of blood flow.
And all that aside, can we stop calling this guy a Good Samaritan?
nk (2bb38d) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:21 amNo we cannot nk. He saved others. He stepped up.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:55 amhttps://twitter.com/mnhousegop/status/1657231049582059520?
The Democrat party in Minnesota is once again trying to make pedophiles a protected class.
When the public realized what the left was doing they revolted causing the House to strip the language from the bill. The Democrats in the Senate just put the language back in.
Why?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:33 amI don’t believe that Neely was physically accosting the passengers, but it’s clear he was loud, abusive, and frightening people. Did he deserve to die? No, it does not look like any passenger was in direct fear for their life. He had no obvious weapon, though he was throwing trash at people and trying to provoke or scare them. Again, he should have been arrested, where cops are at least trained (maybe not always well) on how much force is appropriate and to consider the safety of the suspect.
Could Penny have shot Neely “in defense of others”? That would be a stretch. Was it reasonable to apply the choke hold? It was, based on trying to de-escalate the situation. Should Penny have given Neely a chance to simmer down? I think so. There is some recklessness here. The situation did end poorly. If Penny had hit Neely in the head with a brick (work with me here), would we be ok with a concussion? How about if it causes a traumatic brain injury and death? At some point we would say “too much” and not proportionate to the actual threat.
A choke hold and losing your ability to breath is more frightening than having some trash thrown at you. Presuming Neely was about to do worse is rationalization. He didn’t produce a knife and he didn’t physically strike a passenger (in my understanding). We shouldn’t act as if he did. It’s hard to convict based on the totality of the situation, but let’s not pretend that this is an easy case of self defense.
Again, it is safe here, but my gut says there is a moral obligation to retreat if possible. De-escalate the situation. Legally?
AJ_Liberty (192406) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:17 amYes, the Loser really said it. The man with six personal bankruptcies says the Republicans should “do a default”.
(Putin and Xi would love that.)
Is the Loser stupid, does he hate America, or both?
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:26 am“There are those who demonize and pit people against one another. And there are those who will do anything and everything, no matter how desperate or immoral…”
“… to hold onto power. That’s never going to be an easy battle. But I know this — the oldest, most sinister forces may believe they’ll determine America’s future. But they are wrong. We will determine America’s future. You will determine America’s future.”
—- POTATUS Joe Biden, at Howard University
A sinister force like the oldest political party in America?
The political party that was the party of slavery?
The political party of the KKK, the party of Jim Crow?
The political party that segregated the federal workforce as soon as it gained power after the Civil War?
The political party of redlining?
The political party of “Bull” Conner, Democrat National Committee member and police chief during the Birmingham black civil right protests?
THE DEMOCRAT PARTY
Colonel Haiku (560622) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:48 amThat’s also a lie. I never hid anything.
I was Bird Dog at the now-defunct Tacitus and Forvm, which I’d been at since 2003. I never “hid” that I’ve used a different pseudonym.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:52 amIf norcal decided to move to Temecula with his love interest and rename himself socal, I wouldn’t have kittens about. Rob’s been having a litter on the issue for years.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:56 amI doubt Putin would use tactical nukes if he keeps losing the territory he’s conquered because there’s no tactical advantage in doing so.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 6:01 amWhich leaves strategic nukes, like bombing a major city and becoming an even more major war criminal. I don’t see a strategic advantage in doing that either. I doubt even his ChiCom senior partner would approve, and he’d make himself even more a pariah.
Last week, Tribe made the case that Biden could adios the debt ceiling, but I think McConnell’s argument is stronger. No, not that McConnell.
BTW, I think it’s foolish that, ever since the Tea Party and sequester business, my party has been playing chicken with the full faith and credit of the US government. This isn’t conservative.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 6:41 amOops. McConnell.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 6:43 amhttps://www.breitbart.com/education/2023/05/12/furious-parents-cross-picket-lines-in-oakland-as-teachers-continue-strike-for-reparations/
Fire every single one of these communist pieces of garbage.
NJRob (9f81ca) — 5/14/2023 @ 7:14 amWhat striking writers can and can’t do.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 7:55 amHe was being choked to death.
He was not being choked. His airway was unconstrained. Not that facts are your concern.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 7:57 amthe mentally ill were supposed to go to federally funded half way houses. Do gooders always say that because they wanted the warehousing of the serious mentally ill stopped. Guess what reagan did with the money instead.
Money was provided to California cities and counties for outpatient mental health services. Most of those cities and counties used it for other purposes. What do you think that GOVERNOR Reagan did with the money? The state was pretty flush at the time.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:00 amI can see him doing so as a big FU to Ukraine and the West, making Ukraine uninhabitable.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:07 amAnd all that aside, can we stop calling this guy a Good Samaritan?
Why? Have you read what the other passengers thought of him? I expect their testimony will be telling, assuming that they are not threatened with doxxing as “racist vigilantes” by those who want another outcome.
How about we stop calling him a “vigilante”? It’s not like he sought out the situation like Goetz did. Also, stop calling him “racist” as one of the guys helping him was Black.
Also, stop calling Neely a “victim” — he was a man who assaulted people for a living. The fact that he was still loose, drug-addled and crazy is also not Penny’s fault. It’s the city’s fault.
A case of gross negligence coupled with disregard for the lives of citizens would be a slam dunk to prove against the powers that be. As long as we are talking about Man-2.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:07 amI can see him doing so as a big FU to Ukraine and the West, making Ukraine uninhabitable.
If he does that, the 50 miles closest to him will be turned into glass.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:09 amIt’s funny how people make it so that Putin doesn’t even have to use nukes for them to surrender.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:09 amBTW, I think it’s foolish that, ever since the Tea Party and sequester business, my party has been playing chicken with the full faith and credit of the US government
Yes. I agree. The Democrats should stop that.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:11 amIt was ruled a homicide.
That sounds to me like Penny choked out Neely. Mr. Penny’s best shot is a well chosen sympathetic jury, IMO.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:42 amMisleading and false.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:42 am@340
This is what the Marxist Soros DA wants.
This is what Communist does to the public.
Release the crazies, criminals and malcontents on the streets to create chaos, so much so, that the public would seek answers to solve their problems. Communism only thrives when the public demands it to solve the chaos.
A happy, safe society rejects Communism.
whembly (7ebf6a) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:58 amFor crying out loud, Kevin, they call it a chokehold.
nk (44cc80) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:01 amThis is what the Marxist Soros DA wants.
What does the Fascist KKK DeSanteria want?
DeSanteria. That could be a religion that calls a strangler a Good Samaritan.
nk (44cc80) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:04 amBy whom? Ukraine doesn’t have any security guarantees from the West.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:23 amI doubt there would be a “rally around the flag” effect if the US used nuclear weapons against Russia for an attack against Ukraine m.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:32 amIt was ruled a homicide.
“Death at the hands of another” rather than “Death by misadventure.”
If an armored car guard kills a would-be armed robber, it is “homicide.”
Some homicides are criminal, some are not. Again, facts are not your forte.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:36 amGoing by Wikipedia, there’ve been four debt ceiling “crises”, starting with Gingrich in ’95 (which I didn’t recall, I thought it was just a budget showdown with Clinton), Boehner in 2011 and 2013, and now McCarthy, all triggered by Republican House majorities while Democrats were in the White House.
When Bush and Trump were president, debt ceilings were raised no fanfare, no matter which party controlled the House. I’ll say it again, this isn’t conservative (or smart), messing with our country’s credit rating like this.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:38 amRelease the crazies, criminals and malcontents on the streets to create chaos, so much so, that the public would seek answers to solve their problems. Communism only thrives when the public demands it to solve the chaos.
This is exactly how Terrorism works. Is the city of New York engaged in Terrorism against its inhabitants?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:38 amFor crying out loud, Kevin, they call it a chokehold.
And they call genital mutilation “gender-affirming care.” That they call something that is not constricting an airway a “chokehold” does not mean they are being “choked.”
C’mon. You’re a lawyer. What is all this literalism stuff?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:40 am@369
Ok nk.
I’m going to ignore you now, as you’re making zero sense.
whembly (7ebf6a) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:42 am@374
Yes.
whembly (7ebf6a) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:44 amWhen Bush and Trump were president, debt ceilings were raised no fanfare, no matter which party controlled the House.
In the one case, the GOP Congress was not going to go to war with the GOP President.
In all cases where the Democrats controlled Congress, there was no interest in reining in spending. If necessary, they’d raise taxes.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:44 amI’m going to ignore you now, as you’re making zero sense.
It’s almost as if someone else is using his handle.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:45 amSaid the guy denying that Penny choked out Neely, which directly contradicts the ME’s conclusions.
Kevin, I didn’t say that the Neely homicide was criminal or not criminal. I did intimate that Penny will be on trial, which is for the charge of 2nd degree manslaughter. That’s just a fact.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:46 amMy comment was about the jury, specifically that “guilty” or “not guilty” depends on the composition of said jury. I do hope the jury is sympathetic, because an unhinged guy who’s been arrested or convicted 42 times put himself and others at risk.
https://amgreatness.com/2023/05/13/deliver-us-from-reality/
whembly (7ebf6a) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:47 amI note that the tracking code for “nk” is changing all over the place. I guess this could be due to mobile access, but that and the leftist drift has me suspicious. It looks more like a VPN troll.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:51 am@380
To be fair, it’s a carotid choke hold designed to incapacitate that is designed to compress one or both carotid arteries and/or the jugular veins without compressing the airway, hence causing cerebral ischemia and a temporary hypoxic condition in the brain.
It’s obvious that there were no attempt to kill Neely but the mere fact of this type of choke hold AND Perry immediately moved Neely to the ‘Recovery position’ once Neely was out.
Not sure how that helps or harms Perry’s “manslaughter 2” charges in the ‘reckless regard of life’ stipulation in the law. I would guess that would help Perry’s defense, but not an expert here.
Many of the witnesses are actually in support of Perry’s actions, and I’m sure he’ll have his day in court.
whembly (7ebf6a) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:57 amBernhard Goetz, who shot 4 gang members on a subway in 1984, was acquitted of all charges against him, save for one charge of possessing an unlicensed firearm. That one charge was due to a law now found unconstitutional.
Whatever you think of Penny, he did not attempt, or intend, to kill Neely. He just held him until he stopped fighting. Only Neely refused to stop struggling, as sometimes happens with the crazy or drug-addled. This is why LAPD stopped using the same technique — it assumed rational behavior on the subject’s part, and coupled with a medical condition could cause death.
But that is what is called “a bad outcome”, not a criminal act.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 10:06 am@350. “There are those who demonize and pit people against one another. And there are those who will do anything and everything, no matter how desperate or immoral…” “… to hold onto power. That’s never going to be an easy battle. But I know this — the oldest, most sinister forces may believe they’ll determine America’s future. But they are wrong. We will determine America’s future. You will determine America’s future.”
—- POTATUS Joe Biden, at Howard University
Thank you, 1972 Joe.
“A mind is a terrible thing to waste.” UNCF
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/14/2023 @ 10:18 amPaging Paul Kersey… It’s EZ for folks who don’t live and work in NYC, the ‘folks’ who don’t need to ride the urine-stenched, filthy floored, gum and poop stained seated rockin’-rollin-NYC subway every day to opine and crack wise about the stresses and strains of riding those monsters, fearfully enduring the threatening harassments from unstable passengers; aggressively demanding beggars, smelly, insanely unsanitary homeless and the drugged out seeking shelter and warmth riding the rails day and night. Sure, honest citizens don’t jump the turnstile and pay for the ride; a terror-filled piss ride not unlike a ride in the dark on DisneyWorld’s Space Mountain. It gives the system ‘character’– but puts raises your blood pressure and puts life and property at risk. Yes, so easy to judge from afar. There’s no conductor or transit cop on every car; no stewardesses w/coffee or a blanket… no First class… and you just can’t open the doors of a moving train and kick the scum off– not that you’d not want to, but the doors can’t be opened. Hell, one time, clinging to a poll, an uptown F train bucked and smacked my wrist against a poll and shattered the crystal on my wrist watch. The ‘rule of law’ is dead. Bragg is utterly incompetent and failing New York City; a fearful Bernie Goetz mustered the courage- for self-preservation- to take action; so did Perry.
Noo Yawk needs more like’em. Tell ’em, Mister Kersey…
“Nothing to do but cut and run, huh? What else? What about the old American social custom of self-defense? If the police don’t defend us, maybe we ought to do it ourselves. I mean, if we’re not pioneers, what have we become? What do you call people who, when they’re faced with a condition or fear, do nothing about it, they just run and hide?” – Paul Kersey [Charles Bronson] ‘Death Wish’ 1974
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/14/2023 @ 10:59 amTim Scott will be making his announcement a week from Monday (5/22)
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 11:33 am^Penny.
DCSCA (6f523d) — 5/14/2023 @ 11:54 amWooooo-Hooooo!
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 12:06 pmSend Out an Amber Alert:
How convenient.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 12:31 pmYawn.
Colonel Haiku (6a181b) — 5/14/2023 @ 12:39 pmProfile in Courage:
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 12:53 pmTo choke is to constrict…it can be air flow or blood flow. If you choke off the flow of blood returning to the heart back from the head, the “chokee” turns white and passes out. The older the chokee, the more dangerous the maneuver becomes. It can also be aggravated by plaque buildup or other health conditions. Eric Garner’s chokehold death was certainly aggravated by other health problems. I suspect that the prosecutor wants to send out a message that it’s not ok to choke out people who are annoying and acting belligerent. Sometimes the best response might be for the people to leave the train car. Again, I think he will be acquitted but the message is “think twice about doing this unless you absolutely have to do it”.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/14/2023 @ 12:56 pmProfile in Courage II:
I have long said I am pro-life not because the Republican Party tells me to be, but because my husband was adopted.
Not because it’s morally wrong?
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 1:06 pmSometimes Democrats will pretend to support some Republican to gain a little street cred, but I’ll be damned if it doesn’t always seem to promote some damn lefty narrative.
I don’t give a rip.
Colonel Haiku (6a181b) — 5/14/2023 @ 1:10 pmRip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 12:20 pm
So, CNN, as advertised, did select a mixed audience (NH Republicans and independents) but it made it look like it was overwhelmingly pro-Trump.
For some sort of commercial reasons? Or just because they regularly oppose booing?
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:25 pmRip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 1:06 pm
She;s echoing the argument made on the other side — they support abortions because they might want one or want someone in their family or known to them to have one.
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:27 pmWhy not? It was, at most a 60-40 question and the jury settled on Trump doing what he said he did sometimes on the Access Hollywood tape – but no more.
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:30 pmE. Jean Carroll could not quite get that part of her story straight enough for the jury. She admitted that herself in an interview after the trial.
nk (25f196) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:33 pmHappy Mother’s Day to all the mothers out there! And to all the children who can celebrate it, with their mothers, today.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:42 pmhttps://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/nyregion/jordan-neely-daniel-penny-nyc-subway.html
Daniel Penny was more crazy, in his own way, than Jordan Neely.
He attacked an incoherent bully whose brain had been damaged by K2, and expected him somehow to stay alive without being able to breathe. Either he was himself crazy or he had a depraved indifference to human life.
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:43 pmDaniel Penny may possibly have been influenced by some nonsense he read on the Internet, (the idea that he could cut off the blood flow and air and not risk killing him may not have arisen in his own mind)
Derek Chauvin may have encountered the same nonsense.
and this was also the first time he saw or imagined this kind f=ofA incompetent bullying.
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:48 pmKevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 10:06 am
Struggling to breathe, or to get blood in his brain.
No, Neely struggling was rational; Penny not letting go for a second was not.
AA person is not legally allowed to be that stupid..
But some people want to consider only who is on Team Crime and who is on Team Anti-crime. But murder is murder.
.
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/14/2023 @ 3:58 pmI think also maybe Penny was frightened of Neely.
He’d never seen a deranged person before.
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:00 pmDaniel Penny may possibly have been influenced by some nonsense he read on the Internet,
Yeah, there’s a lot of that going around.
He just held him until he stopped fighting. Only Neely refused to stop struggling,
When they hanged people slowly. it was called “dancing at the of a rope”. Because that’s what they did as they slowly choked to death.
nk (25f196) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:13 pmSammy,
this is just wrong. On every level. Mr. Perry is a hero that saved people from a lunatic that has a history of violence. You and nk have seriously lost the plot.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:39 pmHow convenient.
For whom?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:52 pmPenny will be acquitted, with an apology from the judge (who wants to be re-elected).
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:54 pmSammy, do you ride the subway?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:54 pmOr is this just your magic mind plucking thoughts from someone you’ve never met?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:55 pmPrediction: Someone will be stabbed to death on the subway by a crazy man, or pushed onto the tracks, while everyone else stands and watches. When asked, the bystanders will say “I didn’t want to get arrested.”
Kitty Genovese could not be reached for comment.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:01 pmYou seem to be doing the same thing here as you describe in post 411.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:21 pmFor Comer and the other House Republicans. Comer and his colleagues are long on allegations but short on evidence. By saying that witnesses have “disappeared” Comer et. al. can claim to have had evidence against the Bidens but without witnesses to testify, they can continue to make unsubstantiated accusations without proof.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 5:28 pmWhat Penny did was prima facie criminal homicide. His guilt or innocence will turn on whether he acted justifiably in self-defense or defense of others. Here in relevant part is the governing NY Penal Code statute PEN § 35.15:
I have no idea what Penny was thinking. Per my general rule of giving the benefit of the doubt, I’ll assume he had good intentions. But even a Good Samaritan can commit crimes if he behaves excessively in his assistance of others. So whatever Penny’s purpose, his criminal culpability will turn on the reasonableness of his fatal choke hold on Neely.
Let’s stipulate that Penny reasonably believed that unless he intervened, Neely would hurt Penny or others. Was the force level of Penny’s response reasonably necessary to prevent the expected attack? And looking at Paragraph 2’s provision for the justifiable use of deadly force, which a choke hold obviously is, did Penny reasonably believe Neely was about to use deadly force?
A jury will decide those questions, presumably on more evidence than we have. On what’s known so far, I see no reasonable basis to believe Neely was about to use deadly force. And I certainly can’t see how keeping him in a choke hold for nearly a minute after he stopped struggling was necessary to avoid anyone being seriously injured. Assuming Penny’s good intentions I’d tentatively call this a negligent homicide. The jury may see it differently, but I’ll bet my paycheck the judge won’t be issuing any apologies.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 6:37 pmHere’s a link to that Penal Code Section.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 6:42 pmYou seem to be doing the same thing here as you describe in post 411.
No, Sammy is mind-reading the motivation of someone, with utterly no bais for his opinion other than the normal Sammy telepathy.
Given the facts we have today, this guy will be acquitted, assuming that the jury is not stacked with BLM folks. And to assert that the judge wants to be re-elected is not exactly a shock to anyone.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 6:48 pm@415. What Penny did was prima facie criminal homicide.
You ever been trapped riding on a NYC subway train and been harassed by the smelly, begging, threatening a$$holes the cops allow to inhabit the system? Compare it to the London tube system… or the Paris Metro… even the Moscow subway. Night and day. What Penny did was heroic; NYC needs more like him. Mayor Adams is another David Dinkins. Bragg is just as useless as well.
DCSCA (71dddf) — 5/14/2023 @ 7:49 pmMr. Perry is a hero that saved people from a lunatic that has a history of violence. You and nk have seriously lost the plot.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/14/2023 @ 4:39 pm
Rob, your comments tend to take the form of black and white. Do you ever see any gray?
norcal (15fce4) — 5/14/2023 @ 7:54 pmIt’s the “dog ate my homework” defense.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:05 pmBased on the information we have, a Solomonesque consequence of Neely’s death would not be an acquittal but rather a conviction for something short of murder.
It depends how aggressive the DA is. The more aggressive, the more likely Penny is acquitted.
But, I am neither a lawyer nor a judge, and I have never served on a jury.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:08 pmYou’re mind reading a grand jury indictment, a trial jury (which has not even been selected yet), and a judge’s rulings.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:12 pmHe already charged with an offense well short of murder-2nd degree manslaughter.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:16 pmHe already charged with an offense well short of murder-2nd degree manslaughter.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:16 pm
I would expect a conviction and a light sentence.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:22 pm“Recklessly” in the NY Penal Code is defined as:
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:32 pmNo parade?
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:33 pmJordan Neely Was on New York’s ‘Top 50’ List of Homeless People at Risk
JF (2570b5) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:41 pmNo parade?
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:33 pm
I think my position is a nuanced one.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/14/2023 @ 8:43 pmInstead of bald assertions, how about grappling with the law I posted? That’s what the jury will do.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:00 pmDCSCA (71dddf) — 5/14/2023 @ 7:49 pm
Whether the NYC subways smell worse than Moscow’s or Adams is the worst mayor since Dinkins is legally irrelevant. All that matters is whether Penny complied with § 35.15. And yes, I’ve taken more NYC subways than you’ve watched inane ’60s sitcoms. I and everyone I knew somehow managed not to kill anyone, to be brutally murdered, or even be robbed or assaulted. And that was in the bad old days when the rate of every category of crime was exponentially higher than it is now. So get a grip and stop watching Fox News (or MSNBC for that matter, though obviously for different reasons). The real world isn’t nearly the hellscape the outrage merchants on either side want you to believe it is.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:05 pmPenny of course has no choice but to focus on the legal aspects of his case, but the rest of us have options
a system which had treated Neely with kid gloves, and which was plagued by either extreme incompetence or outright indifference to the concerns of law abiding citizens, should at least merit some focus
focusing on what the NY penal code says is really nice but, other than Penny and his lawyers, who the fvck should give a damn
an acquittal or conviction of Penny isn’t going to solve this endemic problem, and isn’t going to prevent it (or a Jose Alba case) from happening again and again, and isn’t going to make law abiding citizens feel safe when they just want to get where they’re going
JF (2570b5) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:10 pmWhether the NYC subways smell worse than Moscow’s or Adams is the worst mayor since Dinkins is legally irrelevant. All that matters is whether Penny complied with § 35.15.
case in point
JF (2570b5) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:15 pmExcuse me for considering this legal event on its legal merits, instead of what you want to talk about. Weren’t you just lecturing me on how open threads work? You want to go on about whatever’s biting your @ss, don’t let anyone stop you.
Yeah, funny how when discussing a criminal case I focus on the legally relevant law and facts, not the meta social issues you think I should be talking about.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:35 pm@350 in 1964 members of the freedom mississippi delegation were seated at the convention. At the same time the republican party traded abraham lincoln for strom thurmond. Since then the republican party has gone to the dark side and the democrat party has been dragged kicking and screaming toward AOC’s welcoming hand!
asset (cc4ddc) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:39 pmyou can focus on legal minutiae all you like. Knock yourself out
but this is not “All that matters” — that’s just ridiculous
JF (2570b5) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:41 pm@435. I assume you realize that your AOC/Bernie faction is considered just as war mongering corporate sellout by the Greenwald/Jill Stein faction as the Clinton/Biden faction is by you?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:49 pm@426. I said it’s all that matters legally. Which it is.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:50 pm@436, not @426.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:51 pmYou’re mind reading a grand jury indictment, a trial jury (which has not even been selected yet), and a judge’s rulings.
No, I’m simply reacting to the facts at hand, and my understanding of the gross malfeasance of NYC government.
But whatever, Rip. “This isn’t argument, this is contradiction.”
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:56 pmIt’s the “dog ate my homework” defense.
wtf are you talking about? Has the DCSCA plague infected everyone?
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:58 pmThis.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:58 pmyou also repeated the standard Dem talking points about right wing media and implied the degradation of the subways in NYC was fiction
not much of a legal argument
JF (2570b5) — 5/14/2023 @ 9:59 pmPopular sentiment and the state of the city also figure in. Just ask Marcia Clark, or whoever prosecuted Bernhard Goetz.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/14/2023 @ 10:00 pmFunny how you noticed that but not the mirror image standard GOP talking point I made about left wing media.
Over the short term (the last few years), subway crime has been up and down.The evisceration of ridership by the pandemic makes coherent year to year comparisons hard, though there have certainly been troubling spikes. Over the long term, the degradation of NYC subways is fiction. Compared to the 1990s, today’s subways are extraordinarily safe. Sorry if that doesn’t conform to your priors.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 10:58 pmYou’re mixing apples and oranges. My comment to Kevin, which is the one you criticized, was strictly legal analysis. Now you’re switching to my comment to DC, to whom I didn’t pretend to be making a legal argument.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 10:59 pmI don’t know if a jury will find him reckless. Maybe, but it could be an over-charge, which is why I went with the lower rung, criminally negligent homicide. Penal Law – PEN § 125.10. In either case his culpability will turn on the self-defense/defense of others statute I linked above.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 11:19 pm@442, 446. CORRECTION: My comment to DC is the one you criticized, so my bad for saying otherwise. Of course you haven’t engaged the legal argument at all, much less explained what’s lacking in mine, so there’s still that.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/14/2023 @ 11:31 pm@437 during world war II Britian (churchill) russia (stalin) USA (roosevelt) had disagreements ;but fought the same enemy germany (hitler) Sean penn went on hannity’s show as both support ukraine and little else. During the spanish civil war we saw what happened when the isolations prevented UK & USA from helping and roosevelt had to force lend lease past the hitler enablers in congress. We have seen this treason before.
asset (cc4ddc) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:00 amNorcal,
My comment is based on the facts. Do you want to prosecute the other 2 guys there as well?
The comments I responded to were the ones in black and white. They ignore the circumstances of the situation.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 4:13 amThe basic legal fact is that Mr. Neely will receive due process. And with a more than $1 million GoFundMe defense fund, no dearth of legal representation.
On the other side of the coin, DeSanteria with his “[w]e must defeat the Soros-Funded DAs” contributes nothing but opportunistic, self-serving, political bullsh!t.
nk (a8aa5d) — 5/15/2023 @ 4:44 amYikes! Daniel Penny will receive due process.
nk (a8aa5d) — 5/15/2023 @ 4:47 amThe problem is that Neely does not appear to physically strike anyone or produce a weapon and threaten to use it. He did act belligerent and threatening. So, what is the correct amount of force to use against him? Upthread I asked whether his actions authorized shooting him or bashing him over the head? How much escalation was warranted based on the city allowing mentally unstable people to make a subway car their theater and for not providing adequate police response?
I would come back to proportionality and understanding the risks posed by a sustained chokehold being applied to someone unwell. I could see a jury accepting the chokehold as the safest means of trying to snap Neely out of his mania. I think they will have a problem with the persistence of the chokehold and that there was no real effort to allow Neely to recover from the deprivation of blood flow. Certainly releasing the hold also involved uncertainty. Would he become more violent as his history suggested?
Still, not being there, we don’t know the exact details that led up to the hold. We tend to use stock footage from our own experiences with “crazy” people or from video depictions from cinema. We assume it’s another Bernie Goetz situation. We want the ex-marine to be the hero because he’s the normal one and was only trying to help. We want this to fit our political narrative. If the testimonies of the passengers paint a combustible situation where the language and actions of Neely suggest an imminent escalation, then maybe Penny’s actions become more reasonable.
However, can he claim ignorance to the risks of the length of the hold? That one is tougher. We will have to hear from Penny and see what were his experiences with applying such a hold. What did he understand could happen if the hold was applied too long? Ignorance will not mitigate recklessness but in the totality of the circumstances will it build sympathy? Much of the defense will be on the assumption of what could have happened if Neely was left undeterred. His previous assaults; the terror of the other passengers; the erratic behavior of Neely. There will need to be some jury nullification to completely acquit.
Do we want more civilian chokeholds in such circumstances? Do we want to discourage onlookers from stepping in when there is an actual assault? This case is news precisely because everyone can imagine being in a similar situation. Penny has a lot of support. Others want some sort of justice for Neely…accountability for his death. Everyone has an opinion…
AJ_Liberty (e78623) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:53 am@442
Yeah, I’m there too.
Furthermore, let’s stipulate that Neely had to be stopped and he was well past being talked down – what would you do? Would getting into a fist fight with him, in attempt to knock him out be better?
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:18 amwhembly, if accidentally killing Neely is not reckless, what do you believe would have been?
AJ_Liberty (e78623) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:23 am@455
A carotid choke is designed to be a non-lethal submission move. It’s used in all sorts of hand-to-hand self defense styles (MMA, Jujitsu, Wrestling, etc…).
I think the reckless part, is using techniques that are more often than not, lethal. Let’s hypothesis that Daniel picked up an object (rock, briefcase, etc..) and bashed Neely over his head in attempt to knock him out, and instead it kills him. I’d argue that would fit the “reckless” definition more than a submission move.
Outside of Daniel’s legal jeopardy here…I think there’s two simultaneous issues that ought to be addressed:
1) Neely, in life and in death, deserved better. Neely was allegedly schizophrenic (not sure if true, but its reported), and he definitely had a long and overwhelming criminal record stemming from his mental illness. He deserved to be helped before it was too late, and the government failed him in every possibly way here.
2) The public deserve to feel safe. When government fails, its left to the public to deal with this. There should be some level of grace extended to those having to face the consequences of such failures.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:40 amThanks a lot, Xi. You, too, Modi.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:01 am“It’s used in all sorts of hand-to-hand self defense styles”
I assume that you have watched MMA fights and understand that a referees does urgently intervene and stop a fight when a fighter blacks out. Also, there is a difference between a well-conditioned fighter and someone mentally unstable who might not understand to tap out. Via George Floyd and Eric Garner, I think society is a bit more sensitive to the wisdom of applying chokeholds or other means of submission outside of a regulated environment. If cops are banned from using such holds, why would it be less reckless for a civilian to do it?
AJ_Liberty (e78623) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:02 amThere’s a reason a majority of our largest police forces have banned chokeholds, whembly.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:06 amOkay,
@ AJ_Liberty (e78623) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:02 am
@ Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:06 am
How would you subdue someone like Neely?
Please narrate this out.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:18 amCall 911. He was threatening that day but not actually violent, and there was an active warrant for his arrest, so he would’ve been taken in, on the spot.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:50 amA good article on DeSantis and Disney, favorable to the governor for a change:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-ratcatcher/
If populism is about anything, it’s taking on the interests and stripping them of privilege. Which is why I find the take of so many kind of weird. Don’t take in the mouse, they say. Why not? Why is their privilege in Florida good for the country?
Appalled (78615b) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:01 amI am kind of interested in the takes of the Haikus and JFs and reasoned takes of the DCSCA here. Why isn’t this a bigger deal to you than the Trump’s self-imposed legal problems.
Appalled (78615b) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:04 am@461 Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:50 am
“Call 911”. As if the police can get there in time.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:10 am@462
Absolute stellar article.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:31 am“Why is their privilege in Florida good for the country?”
Privilege tends to be a term used by the Left. And insisting that government should have more power and authority is also a common theme of the Left. Imposing more regulatory oversight sounds counter to Trump’s efforts to relieve such burdens and reduce the cost of doing business. What am I missing?
What’s absent from the article is any tangible harm caused by Disney directing its affairs. There’s no real argument presented that more regulation and government oversight will reduce accidents, enhance competition, and improve the market for entertainment. The underlying assumption is that government will make things better. Really? It’s pretty clear this is about power and about being upset with public comments by Disney. I think the governor is more than happy with all of the jobs Disney provides and the massive boon to tourism it creates. He just wants to be able to politically muscle the company to show he’s a tough guy too. An urge that again strikes me as being more liberal than conservative at its heart.
Disney certainly did carve out a good shrewd deal. It allows it to innovate and develop quickly, without as much regulatory delay as might otherwise happen. Curses. We can’t have that. Everyone must be equally burdened by the odiousness of government. Head shake. How about getting back to small government conservatism? The people of Florida were not being harmed by Disney. DeSantis just felt like he needed to pick a fight. The courts will decide but he hopes he will be in a different office when that all shakes out.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:40 amif accidentally killing Neely is not reckless, what do you believe would have been?
1. Hunh?
2. The statute provides a defense that it was not reckless, which indicates that that group of situations exist.
3. For some, “reckless” is defined as daring to stop an out-of-control Black man, considering the political attacks one would be subjected to. The same actions against a white man, especially if done by a Black person, would be “heroic” not reckless.
4. Your basic argument is that self-0defense that results in death is “reckless.” Care to defend that?
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:12 amWe have seen this treason before.
Now do Vietnam.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:13 amThere’s a reason a majority of our largest police forces have banned chokeholds, whembly.
Sure. And if Penny was a police officer, trained in that way, he would have simply pulled his gun and shot him dead. There’s a reason that police shootings are up.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:15 amI just got polled (by obviously a City Council candidate) and most of the issues sund “progressive” although number seven (as a periority) was safety and number seven as an issue was crime. I don’t think this is an issue the people sponsoring the poll wanted to hear.
one of the questions was about the Neely case (without names) What is closer to your opinion – that Penny should go to jail or — the other oone was in favor of him, I think.
Sammy Finkelnan (e179ff) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:17 amCall 911. He was threatening that day but not actually violent, and there was an active warrant for his arrest, so he would’ve been taken in, on the spot.
Maybe. A half hour later, after he had stabbed a few people. I’m sure they’d have brought their chalk.
Great thinking Captain Milquetoast. But that’s exactly what our masters expect from their proles. Believe it or not, there are still some people who don’t feel they should be swaddled in the Life of Julia.
I don’t much care for the term “RINO” but you sure sound like one with this post.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:19 amHow about getting back to small government conservatism?
Dead now these last 100 years.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:21 amNoted, your having to resort to a hypothetical. Pathetic, Kevin.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:27 am“Your basic argument is that self-0defense that results in death is “reckless.” Care to defend that?”
I’m not sure that you have the right to assault someone for being annoying or else DCSCA would regularly be in peril. You certainly don’t have a right to cause an annoying person’s death because of actions you merely think he might do. Self-defense doesn’t mean you can pre-emptively attack someone. I believe that Penny likely acted reasonably to subdue Neely based on his alleged erratic behavior. He’s in legal jeopardy for continuing a hold with reckless concern for Neely’s life. Would Neely have been justified, while in the hold, to knife Penny in the femoral artery in his own application of self defense?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:39 am@473
https://nypost.com/2023/05/14/three-men-slashed-at-jackson-heights-subway-station/
Not that far fetch buddy.
We can never know what would have happened had no one intervened, but we do know what happened when Neely assaulted a 67-year-old woman in the subway.
If you’re ok sacrificing the helpless on the altar of the unknown, just say that.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:47 amCriminal recklessness has its own meaning:
I think squeezing a person’s neck until he has stopped moving is “a gross deviation from the standard of care a reasonable person would exercise”.
What’s left is “in the situation”. Did this situation call for squeezing Neely’s neck until he had stopped moving?
Now some comrades, here, take the view of Comrade Stalin: “Death solves all problems. If a man is dead, he is not a problem.” I cannot bring myself to agree.
nk (a8aa5d) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:54 am@Paul Montagu
@ AJ_Liberty
https://twitter.com/WilliamA_33/status/1654496252640280582
Say, that’s your wife/daughter/girlfriend…
What do you do?
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:56 amWho here specifically takes that view?
BuDuh (8eeb94) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:57 am@476 nk (a8aa5d) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:54 am
A carotid choke is a submission move.
Once Neely was out, Daniel moved him into the recovery position (which witnesses stated he was still breathing).
I disagree that this was a “Recklessness–Wantonness” act, but that’s for the court/jury to decide.
Furthermore, the sad thing here is that had Neely been a white guy, Daniel would’ve never been charged. This smacks of a grievance industry trying to Derrick Chauvin Daniel.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:00 amAbsent the actual complete witness statements, any other videos, or the full police report, how does this not qualify as hypothetical?
BuDuh (8eeb94) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:00 am@478
No one.
nk goes hyperbolic when staking a losing argument.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:01 amEasy. One, stand between Neely and said wife/daughter. Two, call 911.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:05 amIf he gets violent, then I have no issue subduing the guy any way I can, as any man should.
From what I’ve read, he was loud but not violent.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:06 amSo he could have been 1/2” away from someone’s face verbally violent?
BuDuh (95c88e) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:09 amThat was disingenuous, whembly. The issue is whether Neely was violent–not a larger discussion about safety levels on NY subways–and from what I’ve seen, he wasn’t violent on that subway.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:10 amApparently Paul, you must attack before he gets violent because you never know. Self defense is about beating them to the punch…and if they die…sucks to be them….cue viral internet video of black person out of control
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:13 amBTW, Kevin called me a “RINO”, intending it as an insult but, for me, given the sorry state of this GOP, I’ll take “Republican In Name Only” as good praise.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:14 amI’m a proud Jack Kemp conservative.
From what I have seen, he was Michael Jackson. Just about every leading news story used the Trayvon Martin template of pure innocence by way of out-of-date photos.
BuDuh (95c88e) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:14 amHow do you plan on wedging into the 1/2” of space between Neely and your loved one?
BuDuh (95c88e) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:16 am“Verbally violent”? I have no idea what that means, or what distance a person has to be from another for this “verbal violence” to occur.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:17 amShouting in another’s face is obnoxious, not violent, and worthy of making a 911 call.
So 1/2” is ok?
BuDuh (95c88e) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:19 am@485
No. I stand by it.
Numerous witnesses said he “was” violent.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:22 amVerbal violence was caught in moderation. Hopefully this works.
BuDuh (d4d367) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:24 am@482
Mmmm.
Honestly, if that was me, anyone lays a hand on my girls like that, I don’t think I could live with myself if the assaulter gets to walk away.
I’m aware that could put me in legal jeopardy, and I’ll accept it and take my chances with the jury.
But part of the reasons why these thugs think they can do this, is that they’ve been getting away with it in the first place.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:26 amCall 911.
Pfffft. On a moving subway train underground sealed in a bucking carriage w/a linatic threatening the passengers? FYI, last summer, called ‘911’ and it took the frigging coppers AN HOUR to respond.
DCSCA (6f3523) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:29 amAJ,
What you are missing is that Disney had its own special municipality in Florida — something no other amusement park in Florida has. While something like that made sense in 1967, it might not now. And it is the state conferring a special right on a specific organization. That’s a privilege, whether you are left, right or center.
The framing of this is that Disney has a right to this special relationship with the State of Florida that saves it a bunch of money. Usually special breaks like this do not go on in perpetuity. There is an expiration date. Since Disney owns a lot of media and DeSantis is “worse than Trump” ™, this is being reported on in an extremely biased way.
Appalled (78615b) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:30 amThanks to Adams and Bragg, this is how NYer have to handle ‘Neelys’ on the NYC subway these days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYN41wGmP8U
DCSCA (6f3523) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:36 am@474. Projecting again, AJ. ‘Give me all your cash and will leave you alone’ works every time in stovepipeland being dispatched uptown underground hurtling along at 30 mph in a sealed aluminum box 50 feet underground. =sarc=
DCSCA (6f3523) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:43 amAnd if Neely was hijacking a plane at 50,000 feet, would you expect passengers to ‘call 911’ ??? Crazy folks don’t fvck w/planes, trains and automobiles in motion or they pay the consequences. End of story.
DCSCA (6f3523) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:49 amThen cite it. This is what I read.
I showed you mine, you show me yours.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:55 am@496. The framing of this is that Disney has a right to this special relationship with the State of Florida that saves it a bunch of money. Usually special breaks like this do not go on in perpetuity. There is an expiration date. Since Disney owns a lot of media and DeSantis is “worse than Trump” ™, this is being reported on in an extremely biased way
Usually, they DO, Appalled. Especially if it is a huge economic and tourist draw for said locale.
Ask NBC.
They’ve been housed at 30 Rockefeller Center w/a sweet leasing and tax deal to keep them there, literally for decades, and when thse tax and leasing aggreements come up for renewal, NBC tells NYC they’re headed for their complex in the Meadowlands just across the Hudson in NJ wher the tax and leasing number are a tempting lure. So what does NYC and statge do? Cut the deal and keep NBC right there at 30 Rock.
DCSCA (6f3523) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:58 amI’m a proud Jack Kemp conservative.
That’s nothing to brag about:
‘As secretary of Housing and Urban Development during the George H.W. Bush administration, [Jack] Kemp continued to push hard for enterprise zones, which he liked to call empowerment zones. Legislation was finally enacted in 1993 and expanded in 1997 and by subsequent legislation. In 2000, Congress enacted the New Markets Tax Credit as an additional enterprise zone incentive. Thus we now have considerable experience with the enterprise zone idea in operation.
Unfortunately, the evidence shows that enterprise zones are at best a very weak generator of jobs. The U.S. Government Accountability Office has done several studies and concluded that there was no significant difference in economic growth or job creation inside the enterprise zones from the surrounding area.
Academic research confirms this conclusion. A 2006 article in the Journal of Urban Affairs found only a few instances in which economic activity in the zone was better than that in comparable areas outside the zone. An article in the Economic Development Quarterly in 2009 found “no evidence that these enterprise zones affected the employment of zone residents.” An article in the Journal of Urban Economics in 2010 found, “The evidence indicates that enterprise zones do not increase employment.” – https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2014/01/10/Enterprise-Zones-Bipartisan-Failure
DCSCA (6f3523) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:04 amNoted, your having to resort to a hypothetical. Pathetic, Kevin.
You did it first, saying that calling 911 would product a timely response. Not only pathetic, but lacking compassion for other people’s safely.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:09 amI reject the “verbal violence” premise to your question. Also, that link didn’t work.
I did a little of my own research, and yelling at someone’s face (no distance specified) would fall under disturbing the peace and be worthy of a 911 call.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:12 amI’m not sure that you have the right to assault someone for being annoying
I’m not sure you believe I said that.
Self-defense doesn’t mean you can pre-emptively attack someone.
Nor that, although some situations (e.g. a burglar in the home at night) may lean that way.
I believe that Penny likely acted reasonably to subdue Neely based on his alleged erratic behavior
Oh. Look, you agree that I did not say that.
Would Neely have been justified, while in the hold, to knife Penny in the femoral artery in his own application of self defense?
No, of course not. Nor would he have been justified in shooting him with a Tommygun. What is the point of that? At best you can claim, in hindsight and from a distance, that he maybe held Neely too long. Is that “reckless”, as in behavior that no reasonable person would have thought justified in the moment, beyond a reasonable doubt? That’s the State’s entire case.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:17 amSo 1/2” is an ok distance between the face of someone disturbing the peace and the face of someone you love? You would wait for police to arrive and not insert yourself in the middle?
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:18 amI never said “product a timely response”, Kevin. You’re on a roll of pathetic today.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:19 amI think squeezing a person’s neck until he has stopped moving is “a gross deviation from the standard of care a reasonable person would exercise”.
And I think you’re wrong. How about THAT?!
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:19 amAppalled, you’re missing that Disney is a revenue bonanza for Florida and its residents. The company itself spends 10’s if not 100’s of millions of dollars to entice people to visit Florida. Those tourists then spend billions of dollars inside the theme parks and outside. This generates huge tax revenue that benefits the entire state. Are we to pretend, for partisan purposes, that the Disney/Florida relationship is NOT mutually beneficial and that Disney is getting away with something…and that it’s taken 55 years for a governor (almost) running for President to detect this insidiousness…and it’s just coincidence that it aligns with Disney’s opposition to the Republican education bill? I have a finger over here for you to pull.
And as my previous comment points out, what is really to be gained here? It sounds like the state will impose additional regulations on Disney to operate. So in real terms, Disney will need to spend more money to get things done. And conservatives applaud this as….get ready for it….FAIRNESS. WTF!? Disney can also choose to spend more of its profits at other non-Florida theme parks and how does this help Florida tax payers? DeSantis proudly says that any additional service charges in the municipality will be picked up by Disney and NOT the local taxpayers. Again, this will be contested. It may not be true, with some estimating property taxes needing to go up 20 to 25%. Neither option seems particularly good if one wants economic growth and jobs.
Let’s be honest. DeSantis wanted to make a political point about wokeism. He could have chosen a company like Starbucks and made the same point. Instead he picked on its biggest employer and biggest tourism attraction…not because he’s all about FAIRNESS…but because he’s running for President and wokeism is what his base mainly cares about. It’s not being a deregulator and encouraging business. It’s about eye-gouging the Left even if it means eye-gouging yourself. You can applaud making it harder for Disney to do business in Florida, I’m just going to shake my head.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:20 amI’m a proud Jack Kemp conservative.
It’s not often you see a triple oxymoron.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:20 amI already said I would stand between Neely and my loved ones, BuDuh. I have no idea what you’re getting at.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:20 amnk,
What’s with the continuous IP changes?
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:21 amHere is what I am getting at. How do you plan on getting into the 1/2” space without some sort of physical altercation?
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:22 amAs I mentioned above, it all depends on the level of imminent physical threat Penny reasonably believed Neely to pose.
If Penny reasonably believed Neely was about to use deadly physical force, then Penny had the right to respond in kind. In that case Neely’s attempt to defend himself with deadly force would be illegal.
If Penny didn’t reasonably believe Neely posed an imminent deadly threat, then Penny’s escalation to deadly force was criminal, which would have entitled Neely to defend himself with his own deadly force, including stabbing Penny in an artery.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:22 ambefore commenting on Neely, I think it’s important that everyone be reminded of the parable of the good Samaritan, I think it’s pretty apt in this situation.
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He put him in a choke hold, in order to cut of his blood flow and render him unconscious. 35 Alas, he held the hold too long, and killed the man, totally on accident.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who choked him to death.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
Manotaur (09df4a) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:25 amNumerous witnesses said he “was” violent.
The encounter was filmed, and the person filming it said he was in fear for his safety. While there may be a duty to retreat — if it can be done safely — by all accounts that was not possible in this subway car.
Many early reports have now been Google-holed and now everything is about the poor homeless guy attacked for being an uppity black man by a white vigilante. But here’s an outlier, quoting an actual witness:
Witness says she went back to ‘thank’ Daniel Penny … is ‘praying’ for him
Now why would witnesses to a crime want to be anonymous? Are Neely’s people going to come after them? Or is it the NY Times and DA’s office they fear?
And people wonder why no one came to Kitty Genovese’s aid.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:33 am“At best you can claim, in hindsight and from a distance, that he maybe held Neely too long. Is that “reckless”, as in behavior that no reasonable person would have thought justified in the moment, beyond a reasonable doubt?”
Yes, that’s my point. You just might not be able to squeeze someone’s neck and cause them to die without persuasively showing that he was an immediate physical threat to you or those around you. And, yes, it is reasonable to expect people to understand that if you deprive blood flow to the brain long enough that you can in effect cause someone to die. I hope more comes out that argues in the Marine’s favor. For instance, I hope that it was unclear when Neely may have passed out. I fear though that the hold was maintained after Neely lost consciousness. That’s going to be problematic because at that point recklessness moves front and center.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:34 amMore:
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:39 amI fear though that the hold was maintained after Neely lost consciousness.
And maybe it was, for a moment. But he was breathing when the hold was released. He may have been in such fragile health that irreparable damage was done, but that is generally not foreseeable. The police stopped using chokeholds for the most part after juries starting awarding damages, but that does not mean that the technique is often fatal. It almost never was, but “almost never” means different things to the city attorney and comptroller.
Instead the cops just shoot them to death.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:44 amYou can’t legally squeeze someone’s neck until they die without persuasively showing you reasonably believed he was an immediate deadly threat to you or those around you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:48 amThe two stories that Kevin linked paint the picture of Neely potentially being guilty of Menacing in the third degree.
This lawyer gives an example:
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:56 am@520, agreed.
“But he was breathing when the hold was released.”
Blood flow was the problem
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:59 amNo, the framing is that Disney has a right to political speech without fear of retaliation.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:04 pm@521. How is that instructive? That statute covers a descending range of menacing from putting someone in fear for their life to putting someone in fear of non-fatal injury. Nobody disputes Neely was menacing. The question for Penny’s culpability is whether Neely put Penny in reasonable fear for his or another’s life. If Neely instilled a fear of simple injury, it won’t get Penny off.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:19 pmLurker, the one witness in Kevin’s link was quoted as saying:
She also said:
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:27 pmThe first part may be relevant, but it still doesn’t answer whether Neely put Penny in reasonable fear for his or another’s life.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:32 pmI can only guess that the witness who was thankful to the person, that stopped the person who was threatening to kill motherf—ers on the train, thought that her life was in danger, lurker. So you got me there.
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:35 pmThe real fear that witnesses are now expressing — through their need of anonymity — is that the cancel mob will come for them, assuming the DA doesn’t charge them as accessories first.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:45 pmDurham report issued, finds DOJ/FBI failed to uphold mission.
I’m looking for the Aaron Rupar explanation… the one that holds so much weight around these parts.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:45 pm“no credence to launch this investigation”
Assholes…
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:47 pm@527. I’m not impressed that a passenger is grateful. Maybe she’s justified, and maybe she’s just a awful person who’s happy a menacing but not life-threatening homeless guy is dead. Both kinds exist. I can’t judge what I didn’t see, but in and of itself shouting “I’m gonna kill a motherf#cker” doesn’t merit capital punishment. I shout worse when I watch the news.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:52 pmI. I. I.
I. Me. Mine.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:54 pmThe investigation that should’ve never launched was Durham’s, costing more than Mueller’s (on net), taking way longer than Mueller’s, and the only conviction under Durham’s wing was handed to him by IG Horowitz.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:56 pmRip:
Free speech has consequences. If Disney makes a lousy movie, I don’t have to go to it. If Disney says things I don’t like, I can urge folks to boycott them. If Disney gets the benefit of corporate welfare in perpetuity, then tries to kneecap who is in charge, why does the person in charge have to make nice? You have a duty to be fair to your enemies in law. You do not have the same duty in politics.
AJ:
After 55 years, what have you done for me lately is a valid question for a state to ask. The question Disney, wrapped up in its perfect self-righteousness, is what taking these “bold” stances cost us? There is a reason corporate America usually was cautious taking sides in politics, and that general tenor of things should be encouraged.
Disney’s Florida deal has been good for both state and Disney. But maybe they should pay a little more. It would cost them a heck of a lot to move out.
Appalled (4555aa) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:58 pmWhere are you getting this ‘1/2″ space’ business? Did that happen or are conjuring up a hypothetical?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:00 pm“failed to uphold strict fidelity to the law”
“leads provided or funded by Trump’s political opponents.”
“did not adequately examine or question”
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:00 pmWhy is it so tough to answer, Paul?
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:01 pmI agree on not being able to judge on what we didn’t see, lurker.
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:03 pm@535. Ken White explains on his podcast why Disney’s First Amendment suit is unusually strong.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:04 pmThe government could have saved money and time on both the Durham and the Muller investigations.
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:06 pmbut in and of itself shouting “I’m gonna kill a motherf#cker” doesn’t merit capital punishment. I shout worse when I watch the news.
Why do you persist in claiming that the guy was executed? You know that’s not true and yet you keep on saying it.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:08 pmDo more of my own research, what Neely did before Penny put hands on him was menacing in the 3rd degree, which is described as an assaultive behavior.
Because Neely threatened bodily harm if he didn’t get what he wanted, Penny wasn’t wrong to intervene. A jury will decide if Penny’s response was reckless or merits conviction and, like I said above, I hope he gets a sympathetic jury.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:08 pmI’m not impressed that a passenger is grateful. Maybe she’s justified, and maybe she’s just a awful person who’s happy a menacing but not life-threatening homeless guy is dead. Both kinds exist. I can’t judge what I didn’t see, but in and of itself shouting “I’m gonna kill a motherf#cker” doesn’t merit capital punishment. I shout worse when I watch the news.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 12:52 pm
the “not life-threatening homeless guy” had a history of being a life-threatening homeless guy, and had an active warrant as a result
if my daughters were on that train, I’d be extremely thankful that Penny and the other two (not charged somehow) did what they did. But maybe that makes me an asshole
if Neely was my son, I would’ve done everything to keep him off the streets and would focus my anguish on authorities who had the tools to do just that and didn’t, and those who enable such indifference in blog comment sections
JF (f8f58a) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:10 pmKen White explains on his podcast why Disney’s First Amendment suit is unusually strong.
It’s pretty clear that DeSantis stepped into a minefield. When offered a map back out, he started dancing instead. This is the “stupid prizes” part of the drama.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:10 pm@Whembly@460 Apparently there were 2 people helping so this is how you would do it if it were necessary to control someone and you have 1 or more partners: From behind, you and one of the other people each grasp the disturbed person by the shoulder and wrist, step forward, each placing your leg closest to them in front of one of their legs and move their upper body swiftly forward, controlling them to the ground. You and your partner sit back to back above the person you are controlling and each of you pulls their arm across the front of your body, maintaining control of the arm at the wrist and just above the elbow. If there is a third person, they lay across the person’s legs, controlling their legs with their chest or side if they would prefer to support themselves on their elbow. Then request a bystander to call 911. You can maintain full control in this position for a lengthy period of time in perfect safety for yourself, your partners, and the person you are controlling, until the person you are controlling calms down (or the police arrive). You can do this from the front as well, but it’s harder because you have to roll the person you are controlling over into a face down position. Most people fight more during the roll over (One of the times I was rolling someone into a face-down position I broke a bone in my hand, so it isn’t my favorite maneuver)
Yes, this is specific knowledge that he may not have had, but he also apparently didn’t know how to put someone in a non-lethal choke hold either.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:11 pmGiven that I already answered, it isn’t tough at all. Now answer my question.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:12 pmI sincerely hope lurker finds your 1:08 “instructive,” Paul. He wasn’t too impressed with me posting similarly 2 hours ago.
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:12 pmOTOH, the district board’s suit to recover their powers is probably unrelated to any first amendment claim. It’s like a pro-union school board, upon being defeated at the polls, delegating most of their powers to the union. It’s kindergarten politics.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:13 pmThe U.S. federal government launched an attack on our democracy.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:13 pmBecause Neely threatened bodily harm if he didn’t get what he wanted, Penny wasn’t wrong to intervene. A jury will decide if Penny’s response was reckless or merits conviction and, like I said above, I hope he gets a sympathetic jury.
My take is probably inflected differently, but yeah. You can be wrong, even stupid, and not “reckless.” And then there’s that “beyond reasonable doubt” thing.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:15 pmYou answered how you will wedge into the small space between the disturber of the peace and your family?
No, you did not.
Why make a lengthy game out of this? Every single time.
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:17 pmDurham’s investigation into Trump’s “Crime of the Century” was a joke. Every case he took to trial (Michael Sussmann and Igor Danchenko) ended in acquittals. And the FBI lawyer who pled guilty got probation.
Weak!
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:17 pmFour F*cking Years of attacks and hamstringing the winner of the 2016 election that continued through the 2020 election and still happening today. All by the people that gnash their teeth and rend their garments about attacks on our democracy.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:19 pmDC jury, federal government finds its employees innocent. I’m impressed.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:22 pmOf course, it’s too late for consequences. No one expects anything to come of it.
Just don’t forget who the mendacious, bent corksoakers truly are.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:25 pmThe point is that DeSantis was not fair in law. For him, every statement he’s made (and written) is a confession that he used the law to punish Disney. He had no objection to Disney’s special district during his first term as governor (and accepting their campaign contributions.)
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:26 pmNic, if that doesn’t work there’s always Kung Fu
JF (d3fe07) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:29 pmDeSantis (like Fox) will get reamed by Disney’s discovery.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:30 pmDid Durham recommend any charges or large policy changes to how the FBI opens investigations?
Time123 (b97a7d) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:32 pmSource
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:38 pmSince someone brought up the subject of “timely” wrt 911 calls, this FoxNews report has the closest thing that I could find.
There’s no reporting if or when NYPD showed up, and we don’t know precisely when Neely was put in a chokehold.
According to this left-wing source…
7.5 minutes would be a favorable response time, but NYPD’s response appears longer than that.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:40 pmLike I’ve said more than once, BuDuh, I try to avoid hypotheticals as much as possible. You should, too.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:42 pmAnd I’ll note that you still didn’t answer my question. Why does it always go there with you?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:43 pm@546: That way leads to an outright brawl I would wager.
I echo Paul’s point here:
I’d even wager that most people in the jury has, or knows people who takes the subway and has stories of malcontents causing problems. SO, I think its likely that he’d get a sympathetic jury.
He’s probably on the hook tho in civil courts.
whembly (4716ab) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:44 pm@JF@558 It works. It’s one of the ways people who work with the severely mentally ill teens are trained to take down mentally ill people who are a danger to themselves or someone else. I’ve done it probably more than 100 times (including on people larger than myself).
Nic (896fdf) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:44 pmHere’s a photo of the Belarus leadership, intended to show their health. Next, swimming the Dnieper.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:47 pm@562
If someone is intending to do you harm, 7.5 minutes until authority responds is still a looooong time.
The key, would be to manage the situation to keep the confrontation as non-physical as possible.
whembly (840a86) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:48 pm@Whembly@565 It’s professionally taught for working in mental health environments. It works, it’s fast, it’s safe and it’s sustainable over time. With 3 people, it’s even easy.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:49 pmUp until you responded to one.
I apologize that I didn’t recognize that you jumped ship from the hypothetical you engaged.
What was your question?
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:51 pm@468 Easy LBJ said american boys wont have to do asian boys fighting for them. He was wrong. Same with afganistan and iraq. Got any tough questions?
asset (b4dbe8) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:52 pm@569
Nic, I get that.
But, my point is that expecting the public to know how to do that is ridiculous.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:53 pmThe difference:
President elected in 2016 is treated as largely illegitimate by the courts, media and embedded opponents in the bureaucracy, blocking his every move.
President elected in 2020 is treated as largely illegitimate by his opponents, who are considered criminals by the courts, media and the bureaucracy, and their every utterance subjected to censorship or shadow bans.
Nobody has behaved all that well since the Florida thing in 2000.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:53 pmI’d even wager that most people in the jury has, or knows people who takes the subway and has stories of malcontents causing problems. SO, I think its likely that he’d get a sympathetic jury.
I’d bet that the prosecution will try to exclude anyone who has had a bad subway experience, or knows someone who did.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:55 pmDaniel Penny was even warned by another passenger, at some point, (maybe tooo late) that he might be killing Neely:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/nyregion/jordan-neely-daniel-penny-nyc-subway.html
It was a chokehold, not a blood flow cut off.
The video doesn’t start at the beginning:
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:58 pmnk,
What’s with the continuous IP changes?
Beats me. They started when Patterico moved the site to a new server.
nk (a8aa5d) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:59 pmDemocrat congressman’s virginia staff attacked by baseball bat in latest attack on democrats.
asset (b4dbe8) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:59 pmWhat ever you think of the altercation that lead to Neely’s death.
The biggest issue, imo, is that abject failure by the government that allowed someone in Neely’s condition on the streets.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:00 pmIs that what the medical examiner determined?
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:02 pmA cutoff of blood flow is supposed to render someone unconscious in 8 seconds (not as fast as the fictional Vulcan nerve pinch of Mr. Spock, but fast) while cutting off air takes at least a minute.
And the Marines tell their recruits to do the former:
Of course, it’s all probably “taught” to fast for most people to catch on.
An unofficial Marine website (linked to and quoted by the New York Times) says:
https://www.marines.mil/News/News-Display/Article/529690/co-c-recruits-learn-responsible-use-of-force
Sgt. Brandon Karnes, drill instructor, Platoon 1051, Co. C, 1st RTBn.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:02 pmPersist? I haven’t said it once.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:08 pmThe top rated comments by NYT readers show that subway riders have a much different take on this incident than Bragg, Adams and the moronic activists.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:10 pm@560
We both probably need to read it ourselves, but to answer to your first question: I seriously doubt it. There’s no law against to being wrong.
As to that latter: I’m curious what he has to say regarding those policy changes. Might not get any legs unless the GOP House conducts hearings with Durham as a witness.
Having said that: Here’s a quick twitter break down…
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:11 pmhttps://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1658191613540048933.html
What did Trump want to do that he was blocked from doing because of the Mueller investigation?
Was he prevented from cutting taxes?
Was he prevented from appointing conservative justices?
Was his administration able to cut business regulations?
Was he able to re-do NAFTA?
Was he able to keep us out of TPP?
Was he able to get his cabinet appointments through?
Was he able to rail at NATO?
Was he able to pow-wow with N. Korea?
Was he able to back out of global warming agreements?
Was he able to switch the Israel capitol to Jerusalem?
Was he able to build sections of his wall?
Was he able to keep some Muslims out?
Was he able to break up illegal immigrant families to dissuade future migrants?
Was he able to say outrageous things regularly on TV and in Tweets?
Was he able to team with Putin on terrorism?
Was he able to initiate getting out of Afghanistan?
Blocking his every move? Trump did what he wanted. If there were legislative initiatives that he failed on, it was because Congress is toxic and he didn’t help the situation. This whining that Mueller cause Trump so much grief is silly.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:15 pm“The left, and especially the deep state have created a situation where the normal institutions of government are so distrusted that they have lost all moral power. We don’t care that Trump was impeached. We don’t care that Trump was indicted. We won’t care if Trump gets convicted.
The people who did the impeaching, the indicting, and who may do the convicting have no credibility. They have no moral standing. They have more and bigger guns than we do and they’ve created a situation where they are more likely to have to use them because they abandoned everything else they were once able to rely on to encourage respect and compliance.”
—- Tim Maguire
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:18 pmFarmington police were also recently involved in a wrong house shooting.
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:18 pmWho’s Tim Maguire?
Rip Murdock (acd585) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:20 pm@585 The corporate establishment democrats are desperate to keep in control of the democrat party from the left party base. The donor class orders them to stop the left from taking over the party at any cost. The donor class rightly fears after AOC and the squad sends conservatives to the re-education camps they will be next.
asset (b4dbe8) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:25 pmwhembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:00 pm
The danger to him, though, as it was, came from other people.
Now Jordan Neely’s mental condition was probably deteriorating, not that they had any idea how to cure him. He had been arrested over 40 times, but that was over the years, and sometimes would be naturally for farebeating, when they still did that, but there was something very serious in late 2021:
The 15 onths is probably the length of time until his guilty plea, but he could have been released on bail before that, but not right away.
This is the story of his guilty plea:
But the facility wasn;t ajail and he left it after 13 days.
A judge issued a bench warrant.
But police don’t usually go looking for someone with a bench warrant out against him, but wait until the the next encounter with police.
Except the “progressives” changed something about that too – and they no longer check for bench warrants when removing someone from the subway, because, progressives said, that amounted to making homelessness a crime. Law enforcement was losing its antibodies like the progressives wanted. so the bench warrant never caught up with him.
This is what happened
OK, and he was more or less all right, right then.
Then:
Well, that was something that caused him to call the police.
It’s not clear what, f anything, he had for anyone.
Not really – he was probably too incoherent for that.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:26 pm@whembly@572 I mean, technically I and my former co-workers are members of the public :P. I get what you mean, but you were asking how it should be done and that’s how. OTOH, I have no idea how to to a choke hold.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:26 pmThe Durham report itself:
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:28 pmhttps://www.justice.gov/storage/durhamreport.pdf
Daniel Penny wanted to be a bartender (which might mean he might get to see an abusive drunk or two) and wanted to meet eccentric people:
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:29 pmA former federal judge has to state the obvious about the 14th amendment in a New York Times Op-ed piece: (now called Guest Essays)
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/14/opinion/debt-limit-constitution.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:33 pmMore:
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:33 pmPage 18:
That’s quite damning.
o.O
I mean… daaaaaaaaaaaamn!
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:34 pmThat’s because, as I explained, Neely can be guilty of menacing under that statute (which I suspect he was) without having caused the reasonable fear for one’s life required to justify Penny’s use of deadly force.
Again, the law for justifiable use of deadly force requires the person using it to have been in reasonable fear for his or someone else’s life. It doesn’t say they can use it if they’re being menaced, which is a much looser standard.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:34 pmLink for post 594.
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:35 pmIn short: The Durham report is damning. It shows the FBI operating as a disinformation shop for the Clinton campaign, ignoring its own rules, and both blatantly and maliciously interfering in a presidential election. The Steele dossier was fake, and several members of the FBI knew it all along. The leadership even instructed departments to stop generating paper trail in attempt to circumvent transparency efforts.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:36 pmMoldova breaks from Putin.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:41 pmIt gets worse:
The new debt is not authorized, and the 14th amendment doe not apply to that
The judge exaggerates the effect. It could be sold and maybe at only a small premium. He misses the anti-deficiency act, and the fact that they can prioritize. The only recognition the stock and bond markets have given to this is that:
1) Federal debt coming due in one month is selling at higher rate of interest (lower price) than that coming due in two months because there is a slight worry about delay
2A) Shares of companies that receive payments from the federal government, like military contractors or health care providers have dropped a bit.
This latter anticipates the carrying out of the semi secret Obama plan – ay legal debt on time and everything else pay only when there is enough cash on hand to pay an entire day’s bills
There are so many other ways to handle this other than the catastrophe Biden is threatening.
1) prepayment of taxes at a discount maybe.
2) working with banks to credit accounts early at no interest.
3) The platinum coin(s)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:41 pmThe campaign to conserve water (when what they should be conserving is waste)
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/war-appliances-continues-biden-admin-releases-new-rules-dishwashers
There couldn;t be anything more stupid.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:44 pmTo quote the Colonel: Yawn.
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:45 pmIf this Giuliani story is true, then ew.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:46 pmwhembly – the FBI has been a political tool for quite some time now. Obama weaponized it and it has gone downhill since.
JD (400d0a) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:49 pmAs Special Counsel investigations go, Durham’s was a colossal bust. It’s figures that he’s deflecting from his dismal failure.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:50 pmAll those thousands of hours and millions of dollars, and there was just a single conviction, which was given to him by IG Horowitz.
Why do you persist in claiming that the guy was executed? You know that’s not true and yet you keep on saying it.
What does “capital punishment” mean to you then?
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:52 pm@605
We don’t need a conviction.
We needed someone to pull the wool over the public’s eyes as to what really happened.
Durham showed that the FBI operating as a disinformation shop for the Clinton campaign, ignoring its own rules, and both blatantly and maliciously interfering in a presidential election.
The Steele dossier was fake, and even several members of the FBI knew it all along.
I don’t think we can support this current iteration of the FBI. I don’t know how it can be fixed, only that the FBI has zero credibility.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/15/2023 @ 2:58 pmWas he prevented from cutting taxes? No, but that was purely a legislative act.
Was he prevented from appointing conservative justices? No, but that was purely a Senate action.
Was his administration able to cut business regulations? Did he? I know he said he did, but that doesn’t mean a lot.
Was he able to re-do NAFTA? Again, not something the bureaucracy or the courts could interfere with.
Was he able to keep us out of TPP? And again, not subect to the bureaucracy or the courts.
Was he able to get his cabinet appointments through? Eventually. The levels below that though were massively delayed. Some his fault, some not.
Was he able to rail at NATO?
Was he able to say outrageous things regularly on TV and in Tweets?
Was he able to pow-wow with N. Korea?
Was he able to back out of global warming agreements?
Again, purely presidential prerogatives.
Was he able to switch the Israel capitol to Jerusalem? I believe the Israelis did that
Was he able to build sections of his wall?
Was he able to keep some Muslims out?
You had to work on the wording there. A lot of that was blocked by the courts, particularly Hawaiian ones.
Was he able to break up illegal immigrant families to dissuade future migrants? No, that was larely a Obama policy. Most of the pictures shown of the poor little urchins in their space blankets were from 2015 and such.
Was he able to team with Putin on terrorism? As in killing ISIS? Yes, he was. That whole CinC thing.
Was he able to initiate getting out of Afghanistan? Sadly.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:02 pmBut, OK. You’ve proven that Trump was an effective President. Good work.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:04 pmEven the so-called “pee tape” wasn’t a Russian creation. It came from a scummy Democrat.
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:14 pmWhat really happened, whembly, is that Trump wanted FBI scalps for investigating him, and he got Bill Barr to go along and give Durham the charge of investigating the investigators. Big colossal bust.
If I had to choose which investigation should never have launched, it was Durham’s, given that Mueller did establish that Putin mounted a “sweeping and systematic” hacking and propaganda attack on America.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:16 pmMan… those intelligence people sure proved to be sober, loyal Americans… amirite?
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:17 pmBiden (and others, such as Treasury Secretary Yellen) would almost certainly be impeached if they tried the “14th Amendment option.”
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:17 pmFarmington police officers mistakenly approached the wrong house
Farmington, like most of non-urban New Mexico is mostly policed by homeowners as police response can be slow. That shooting sounds a lot like the police failed to announce and people who live in isolation tend to be reactive to people trying to break in at night.
The existence of doorcams and body cams will be persuasive. The cops obviously had their guns drawn and pointed at the door when the homeowner appeared with a weapon. Despite their numbers and their body armor, they opened fire at the sight of a gun. EVERY HOUSEHOLD in that part of the state has more guns than people and banging on the wrong house at night will get you an armed response.
Note that the addresses indicate not just the wrong house, but the wrong side of the street. They were reckless going in, and are now trying to avoid lawsuits ad manslaughter charges.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:17 pmCHAZee!
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:18 pmShorter Rip: Claiming the Debt Limit is void would cause a constitutional crisis.
The Court would be in a tough position, and would probably enjoin the payment of anything OTHER THAN the bond debt until the situation was solved, then put the case on next year’s calendar. Which would mean that Social Security payments, contractor payments, federal employee payments, Medicare, Medicaid, etc all would go unpaid until Congress acted. And they would act fast, if only with a small increase in the Debt Limit.
But I suspect that Congress will avoid all this and increase the Debt Limit by a 100 billion or so to give them time.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:23 pmGiven the fact that Trump appointed the FBI Director (after firing Obama’s appointee) you got wonder how he lost control of the FBI.
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:24 pmRip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:17 pm
That could do it, although you still needs a 2/3 vote in the Senate to remove (and a few weeks to go through the process)
But if this caused any kind of catastrophic economic consequences, Biden’s approval rating would drop below 25% and he’d probably withdraw his candidacy for another term.
Which is one reason all this is a bluff.
Sammy Finkelnan (5e3860) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:27 pmOccam’s Razor for predictions: the easiest path is the most likely. I agree with Dorf-the Court won’t give the political branches an out and will punt it back as a political question.
And even if they were stupid enough to get involved, they wouldn’t push a decision into the next term.
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:29 pmKevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:23 pm
Why should they do that?
Money is coming in all the time.
Just write other checks, one day late, two days late etc.
Sammy Finkelnan (5e3860) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:31 pmDetailed local information on Farmingham shooter:
https://www.durangoherald.com/articles/one-confirmed-dead-in-active-shooting-in-farmington-officers-possibly-injured/
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:33 pmI’m not sure that you have the right to assault someone for being annoying or else DCSCA would regularly be in peril.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:39 am
Literally LOL
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:34 pmImpeachment would be enough to damage Biden so he couldn’t be re-elected. He doesn’t have the force of will (or support) to overcome it, unlike Trump. Which is why I don’t understand why the House Republicans haven’t pursued it so far.
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:34 pmAccording to Merriam-Webster it means “punishment by death.” Replace “capital punishment” with “punishment by death” and my comment becomes, “I can’t judge what I didn’t see, but in and of itself shouting “I’m gonna kill a motherf#cker” doesn’t merit punishment by death.” That looks fine to me.
Obviously I didn’t say Neely was executed. I said I couldn’t judge what I didn’t see, so everything after that was implicitly contingent and hypothetical. I suggested, hypothetically, that if all someone does is shout something, however threatening, punishment by death isn’t warranted. I stand by that.
Whatever I said, I said it once, not repeatedly. And since I didn’t say what you said I did, I obviously don’t know that what I said is wrong. I don’t even know that what you accused me of saying is wrong. I just don’t claim it’s right. Regardless, please don’t try to read my mind. You tell people not to do it to you, so please accord me the same courtesy.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:35 pmAnd even if they were stupid enough to get involved, they wouldn’t push a decision into the next term.
They would “push it back” by temporarily protecting the debt service while the politicians came to their senses. The “next term” thing is saying “we are not going to bail you out.”
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:35 pmlurker, it is possible that I am conflating your words with equally intemperate words of others but words like “murder” “capital punishment” “strangling” and the like have been flying out without need.
I guess that “strangling” is nk’s repeated thing, so, sorry for confusing you two.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:39 pmWhich is why I don’t understand why the House Republicans haven’t pursued it so far.
Because there are actually some voters who think that Congress’s day job is dealing with the issue of the day, not playing one-upmanship games and counting coups.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:41 pmI’m not sure that you have the right to assault someone for being annoying or else DCSCA would regularly be in peril.
To be fair, assaulting someone for being annoying ONLINE is most certainly not allowed. Then again, there is the “punch in the nose” thing that encourages verbal restraint face to face, and is entirely missing online. And it shows.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:43 pmStill don’t think it will happen that way. Highly speculative.
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:44 pm@ChuckRossDC 2h
It’s a 320-page report. One quick thing that catches my eye: FBI ended one aspect of its investigation after “a longtime and valuable confidential human source” made an “improper and possibly illegal campaign contribution” to the Clinton campaign on behalf of a “foreign entity.”
My 610 was wrong, maybe not from a scummy democrat (Dolan)
Greg Price @greg_price11
BREAKING: On the false claim in the Steele Dossier that Trump was peed on by Russian hookers, the Durham Report says that Steele’s source Igor Danchenko made the whole thing up, never heard it from any of his sources, and never even stayed at the hotel where he said it occurred.
For his fan bois… https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1658207039011561526?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1658207039011561526%7Ctwgr%5E0eb2a407b8e5b3421d8bd53fae9f70122840de85%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Face.mu.nu%2Farchives%2F404444.php404444
https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1658209699148210181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1658209699148210181%7Ctwgr%5E0eb2a407b8e5b3421d8bd53fae9f70122840de85%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Face.mu.nu%2Farchives%2F404444.php404444
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:46 pmI don’t think impeaching Biden is “oneupmanship,” he clearly has committed impeachable offenses by taking actions without Congressional approval-student loan forgiveness; DACA; etc. They aren’t as sexy as impeaching someone for leading an insurrection, but he shouldn’t get a pass because his actions encroach on the authority of Congress.
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:51 pmI’d be thankful for restraining him, not for killing him. Putting aside all the unresolved issues of Penny’s legal and moral culpability, if you’re grateful for Neely’s death, well… I won’t use your label. Suffice it to say I’d consider it far less than admirable.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:58 pm@604. ‘…the FBI has been a political tool for quite some time now. Obama weaponized it and it has gone downhill since.’
Obama? Try a few decades earlier:
A politically weaponized FBI is nothing new, but plenty dangerous
“In reality, the FBI has been politically weaponized for almost a century. The FBI was in the forefront of the notorious Red Scare raids of 1919 and 1920. Attorney General Mitchell Palmer reportedly hoped that arresting nearly 10,000 suspected radicals and immigrants would propel his presidential campaign. Federal Judge Anderson condemned Palmer’s crackdown for creating a “spy system” that “destroys trust and confidence and propagates hate.” He said, “A mob is a mob whether made up of government officials acting under instructions from the Department of Justice, or of criminals, loafers, and the vicious classes.
After the Palmer raids debacle, the FBI turned its attention to U.S. senators, “breaking into their offices and homes, intercepting their mail, and tapping their telephones,” as Timothy Weiner noted in his 2012 book, “Enemies: The History of the FBI”. After the FBI’s political espionage was exposed, Attorney General Harlan Fiske Stone, warned in 1924, “A secret police system may become a menace to free government and free institutions because it carries with it the possibility of abuses of power which are not always quickly comprehended or understood.” Stone fired the FBI chief, creating an opening for J. Edgar Hoover, who would head the FBI for the next 48 years. Hoover pledged to cease the abuses but the outrages mushroomed.
In the 1948 presidential campaign, Hoover brazenly championed Republican candidate Thomas Dewey, leaking allegations that Truman was part of a corrupt Kansas City political machine. In 1952, Hoover sought to undermine Democratic presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson by spreading rumors that he was a closet homosexual.
In 1964, the FBI illegally wiretapped Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater’s presidential headquarters and plane and conducted background checks on his campaign staff for evidence of homosexual activity. The FBI also conducted an extensive surveillance operation at the 1964 Democratic National Convention to prevent embarrassing challenges to President Lyndon Johnson.
From 1956 to 1971, the FBI carried out “a secret war against those citizens it considers threats to the established order,” a 1976 Senate report noted. The FBI’s Operation COINTELPRO involved thousands of covert operations to incite street warfare between violent groups, to get people fired, to portray innocent people as government informants, to destroy activists’ marriages, and to cripple or destroy left-wing, black, communist, white racist, and anti-war organizations. Even feminists were eventually added to the target list. Senate investigators warned, “(The) FBI intelligence system developed to a point where no one inside or outside the bureau was willing or able to tell the difference between legitimate national security or law enforcement information and purely political intelligence.”
Hoover served as FBI boss until his death in 1972. A New York Times obituary noted, “The more awesome Mr. Hoover’s power grew, the more plainly he would state, for the record, that there was nothing ‘political’ about it, that the FBI was simply a ‘fact-finding agency’ that ‘never makes recommendations or draws conclusions.’” This was the myth that allowed a federal agency to accumulate vast power which it continues to covertly exercise. The FBI pirouettes as the saintliest institution in Washington while its leaders dish dirt to their political or media favorites.” – https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/392084-a-politically-weaponized-fbi-is-nothing-new-but-plenty-dangerous/
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 4:25 pmI’d be thankful for restraining him, not for killing him. Putting aside all the unresolved issues of Penny’s legal and moral culpability, if you’re grateful for Neely’s death, well… I won’t use your label. Suffice it to say I’d consider it far less than admirable.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 3:58 pm
of course you would
Here’s what can happen in the confines of a train car when a chokehold and potentially deadly force isn’t used on a public nuisance who wasn’t violent, until he was
We should be thankful they didn’t administer “capital punishment” on the guy, but I seriously doubt their “far less than admirable” families join you in that sick notion
JF (f8f58a) — 5/15/2023 @ 4:32 pmno one in the history of the English language has used “capital punishment” other than as a form of execution
why not just own your ridiculous hyperbole, lurker?
JF (f8f58a) — 5/15/2023 @ 4:38 pmI guess that “strangling” is nk’s repeated thing, so, sorry for confusing you two.
It certainly is, Ollie. And I’m sticking to it.
nk (518049) — 5/15/2023 @ 4:41 pm^^The Chicken Factor^^
Colonel Haiku (0633a3) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:11 pm@622. Sticks & stones; the stovepiper’s lament, ‘dispatched’ from the ramparts behind the paywall.
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:20 pmObama, Comey, Adams, Bragg… and now Durham reaffirms what Americans have known for decades: the DOJ is corrupted and the Rule of Law is dead. Watching hapless lawyers desperately flailing, flinging poop against the paywalls and the Teevee screens to revive it; to legitimize and justify their reputatiuons and poor choice of career path is a helluva show, too. As, to their utter horror, they’re learning the hard way, that Americans don’t want to be governed; they wish to be entertained.
‘WOW! After extensive research, Special Counsel John Durham concludes the FBI never should have launched the Trump-Russia Probe! In other words, the American Public was scammed, just as it is being scammed right now by those who don’t want to see GREATNESS for AMERICA!’- Donald J. Trump
‘When Durham;
Shows the Feds ran a scam;
That was wrong;
To go after The Don;
When the steal;
Was a Hillary deal…
That’s En-ter-tain-ment!’
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:42 pmWhat does “capital punishment” mean to you then?
“Too big to fail” bailed out banks loaned tax $ at next to 0% interest charging American consumers/customers 27% interest rates.
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:46 pmKevin,
you don’t need to apologize. You read it correctly. I was outraged when I read it as well.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:52 pmHaiku,
the mobys and leftists won’t respond to your excellent posts. They’ll just dissemble and bang the table.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:53 pmIssues & Insights/TIPP Poll 5/15/23
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:03 pmIt’s one of the ways people who work with the severely mentally ill teens are trained to take down mentally ill people who are a danger to themselves or someone else. I’ve done it probably more than 100 times (including on people larger than myself).
Nic (896fdf) — 5/15/2023 @ 1:44 pm
Good golly, Nic. Do you work at a school or an insane asylum?
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:06 pmNo surprise there, Rob. Show them the man, they’ll gin up the crime.
Colonel Haiku (413a9d) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:24 pm@645. It’s EZ to peg the folks here who’ve never had to risk riding aboard a NYC subway train to and from work, or to go shopping w/no transit cop anywhere nearby.
“They’re never around when you need’em.”- Lt. Zachary Garber [Walter Matthau] ‘The Taking of Pelham 1,2,3’ 1974
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:25 pmGreat, DCSCA. In my imagination, I just sneezed all over you.
A la [Martin Balsam] ‘The Taking of Pelham 1,2,3’ 1974
Colonel Haiku (413a9d) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:33 pmIt’s comical, sad, pathetic, although quite predictable how the Left is goi g after Durham findings.
JD (660a5b) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:37 pmI have to admit being disappointed by the border crossers. I was expecting a rush on the border that would look like black friday shoppers at walmart. The Coyotes must have been upset. Gate crashing is bad for business
steveg (eec25c) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:38 pm@648. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDlEcFRZUYI&t=1s
“Gesundheit.” – Lt. Zachary Garber [Walter Matthau] ‘The Talking of Pelham 1,2,3,’ 1974
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:41 pmSticks & stones; the stovepiper’s lament, ‘dispatched’ from the ramparts behind the paywall.
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:20 pm
I’m sorry if your feelings were hurt, but I don’t think you realize how you come across to the people who read this site.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:41 pm@652. ROFLMAOPIP.
“I’ve been reamed by experts…”- Lt. Col.’Jiggs’ Casey [Kirk Douglas] ‘Seven Days In May’ 1964
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 6:49 pm@ DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 5:46 pm
And yet nothing happened.
Joe (2c82c2) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:05 pmStill to big to fail.
@623/631. Problem is, BOTH parties have devalued the cache of ‘impeachment’ to the point of it being little more than just another stain to clean off Uncle Sam’s frockcoat. It was once a rare weapon to use; now they draw it like cartoon. Remember, in modern times, it was Republicans who finally went after the criminality of THe Big Dick and forced the articles of impeachment to move forward and got him to resign. Since then, it’s been uses for such silly partisan putposes that it’s no more feared than Putin threatening using nukes. And in Trump’s popuilist case, the two are literally a badge of honor. Te only way Biden gets impeached is if the Ds accept he’s the liar, plagiarist and crook they know he is and have a VP in their pocket to replace him. And Kamala ain’t it.
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:07 pmSkimmed the report.
Time123 (ff00d9) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:08 pm-no charges
-no false testimony by those involved
-seems to agree with the IG findings.
-concluded it should have been a preliminary investigation rather then a full investigation.
As I said, predtable, mendoucheous, and sad
JD (bbf24f) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:11 pmNever forget Pelosi’s clucking: “He’s been impeached! Twice! He’s been impeached!!!”
And this is important to you, ol’cow? Moooo! Image over substance, dear; “Yikes!” indeed:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/yikes-nancy-pelosi-flashes-major-cleavage-italian-beach-resort-owned-andrea-bocelli/
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:19 pmTo quote Gertrude Stein (again) “there is no there there.”
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:20 pm@659. And as Alice said to Gertrude before they bedded down, “You’ll see it soon enough. Try these brownies I just baked.” 😉
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:23 pmDCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:07 pm
I disagree. I think all of the impeachments were justified.
The Clinton impeachment wasn’t about sex. It was about sexual harassment (the Paula Jones case, which, unfortunately for her, pre-dated the MeToo movement). Clinton lost his law license over that, for crying out loud. Why not the Presidency as well?
Trump’s “perfect call” was anything but, so that impeachment was justified.
J6 was even worse, so of course impeachment was the proper thing.
The problem isn’t the impeachments. It’s the tribalism that prevents conviction and removal from office.
There aren’t enough Cheneys and Romneys out there, which many think is a good thing, but it’s really indicative of how steeped they are in MAGA propaganda.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:26 pmTo quote Gertrude Stein (again) “there is no there there.”
Rip Murdock (e4a4f2) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:20 pm
FBI “exonerated”, sez Rip
Comedy gold!!
JF (4efdab) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:30 pm^^Now THAT is funny!^^
Colonel Haiku (413a9d) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:32 pm@661. Fine. Disagree. But the parties go to it now like Mattie Ross going to ‘Lawyer Daggett’ in ‘True Grit.’
“She draws him like a gun!” – Ranger La Boeuf [Glen Campbell] ‘True Grit’ 1969
DCSCA (701a35) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:42 pmLol. What you quoted isn’t my opinion. It’s the law. But go ahead. Be outraged.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:42 pmImitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness. – Oscar Wilde
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:46 pmDon’t be coy. Tell us who the mobys and leftists are.
I can think of exactly one commenter here who could accurately be described as a leftist. And zero mobys. But obviously I’m too blind to see. So, Rob, spill.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:53 pmIn Like Flynn:
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:55 pmWe know who the leftists are-anyone who disagrees with or has a different viewpoint than NJRob.
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:58 pmRip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 7:58 pm
I think NJRob’s heart is in the right place. He just tends to see things through a Manichean, apocalyptic lens.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:10 pmHe has a heart?
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:16 pmHe has a heart?
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:16 pm
No offense, but sometimes the jokes just write themselves.
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:19 pmsomeone hit a nerve
JF (4efdab) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:21 pm“No offense, but sometimes the jokes just write themselves.”
Why yes… yes “they” do. “They” have that ability.
Colonel Haiku (413a9d) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:24 pmHappy Mothers Day!
Notably there was no mention of mother of his son and current wife.
Rip Murdock (7afc4c) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:25 pmThin skinned and very repetitive.
Colonel Haiku (413a9d) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:25 pmI’ll resist the temptation to name posters here that fit that description.
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:30 pm“Happy Mother’s Day to ALL, in particular the Mothers, Wives and Lovers of the Radical Left Fascists, Marxists, and Communists who are doing everything within their power to destroy and obliterate our once great Country,” he wrote (on Truth Social).
Trump continued, “Please make these complete Lunatics and Maniacs Kinder, Gentler, Softer and, most importantly, Smarter, so that we can, quickly, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
…………
Rip Murdock (7afc4c) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:25 pm
Politics as a comic book
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:30 pmNotably there was no mention of mother of his son and current wife.
Rip Murdock (7afc4c) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:25 pm
No mention of the mother of demented Joe’s abandoned granddaughter either. Trump should do better.
JF (4efdab) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:31 pmDon’t worry, he’ll get around to it.
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/15/2023 @ 8:35 pmThe Trump show is so stale (and that’s the most polite term I can think of), and Biden was never very wise, even in his prime.
The evil of two lessers.
We can do better, people.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:08 pmWe can do better, people.
Randomly out of the phone book. If we still had phone books.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:18 pm@678, Trump’s a sociopath. It’s demented thinking. This is the same BS Putin shovels to his sheep. He knows only we can destroy America from within…and only severe partisanship will do that. We have some here that appear to be disciples of that Gospel of Hate. We’re playing with fire. DeSantis, who knows better, is playing with fire. The President needs to be the President of all of us, not just the President of his Party. He needs to be the wise voice that inspires us to be better, inspires us to see the best in one another. A President should rise above our worse impulses and be an example. Trump is a horrible person — promising only retribution and strife…he will destroy us out of spite; Biden is unfit for this critical role, past his time, not courageous enough to lead anyone forward. We have to stop pretending that we need either of them. We need to do better and we need to model behavior for the next generation. Do we really want young people seeing such ugly hate spewed across web sites. At what point is it just embarrassing?
AJ_Liberty (a68064) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:20 pmAJ_Liberty (a68064) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:20 pm
I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone can look at Trump’s Mother’s Day tweet and not laugh. It’s like somebody is doing a caricature of Trump!
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:27 pm@683. Trump’s a showman…
FIFY.
“The President needs to be the President of all of us, not just the President of his Party. He needs to be the wise voice that inspires us to be better, inspires us to see the best in one another. A President should rise above our worse impulses and be an example.”
ROFLMAOPIP!! OFGS, AJ, Grow up:
“What America needs are leaders to match the greatness of her people!”- The Big Dick, August 8, 1968
AND EXACTLY SIX YEARS LATER:
“I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow.” The Big Dick, August 8, 1974
DCSCA (f8de4e) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:37 pmDCSCA (f8de4e) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:37 pm
Nixon had the decency to resign. Trump should have done the same after he stoked J6.
That’s right. Nixon had more decency than Trump. He didn’t cry “fraud” and try to overturn the election in 1960, and he resigned in disgrace in 1974.
Trump cannot even conceive of the notion of disgrace.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:51 pm@634 Thanks DCSCA. While we disagree on many issues I learn a lot from you.
asset (fc9739) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:53 pm@678 Lawsuit alledges giuliani willing to sell presidential pardons for $2 million each and split the money with trump. (DU-NYT)
asset (fc9739) — 5/15/2023 @ 9:57 pm@686. “Decency” had nothing to do w/it. And it’s hardly a term one can associated w/The Big Dick- just listen to the frigging tapes. Besides, if he had any, he’d never have committed the crimes to begin with. Goldwater told him the votes weren’t there in the Senate and he’d get convicted in a Senate trial. That’s not ‘decency’… that’s ‘reality, ‘norcal.
DCSCA (f8de4e) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:08 pmBesides, if he had any, he’d never have committed the crimes to begin with.
DCSCA (f8de4e) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:08 pm
That also describes Trump. And, unlike Trump, Nixon was never officially charged with a crime.
You avoided Nixon doing the honorable thing for the country in 1960.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:17 pmI don’t think that’s in serious dispute. Nixon was a tragic mix of merits and moral defects. Trump, thanks to his lack of redeeming virtue, is almost cartoonishly sinister.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:56 pmlurker (cd7cd4) — 5/15/2023 @ 10:56 pm
His tweets seem more and more unhinged.
(Cue the aggrieved MAGA people with their complaints about how I’m not criticizing Biden. Hey people, guess what? I don’t like Biden either! I railed against his student loan maneuver and his inflation “reduction” act, among other things.)
Like whembly says, we need to do better in the primary. Any of the other 16 candidates were better than Trump in the 2016 Republican primary, and any of the others are better in the upcoming primary.
Similarly, Bloomberg, Yang, Bennet, Bullock, Sestak, Hickenlooper, and possibly Klobuchar were better than Biden in the 2020 Democratic primary.
It’s not the system. It’s not the parties. It’s the voters. There are plenty of better options, but the voters need to choose them.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/15/2023 @ 11:15 pmRussia Collusion found!!
PR exec who called Trump a ‘mad man’ was behind false ‘golden showers’ claims: Durham report reveals Donald never stayed in Moscow suite at center of salacious story – and how FBI wanted to keep paying Steele dossier source $300K AFTER he lied
As usual, every NeverTrump accusation is a confession.
JF (7bceb7) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:06 am“It’s not the system. It’s not the parties. It’s the voters.”
So, the question becomes why? What has changed where the people are ok with unhinged or past his prime? And why are people holding onto this opinion so tenaciously despite daily reminders of how bad it is? DeSantis isn’t optimal in my estimation, but why would so many in the GOP still choose Trump over DeSantis?
Part of it has to be polarization and that more and more people are influenced by sources that are anything but fair and balanced. We cannot accept any bad news about our side or any good news about the other side. The Right doesn’t want a leader that can broaden its coalition, it wants an entertainer that will stoke grievance and anger. The Left is trapped in identity politics and fighting off the extremism of its far left wing. Everyone can see Kamala Harris is not really chief executive material, yet here we sit, locked in for less than noble reasons.
No one can admit that stridency and tribalism isn’t working. Heck the GOP keeps underperforming in ever election since 2016 and still the true-believers are wed to someone who keeps rationalizing sexual assault by “stars”. Embarrassment doesn’t seem to work. What’s sad is that we are heading for a major economic or foreign policy problem by sticking with unhinged or past his prime. Why are we ok with doing this to the next generation?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:21 am@617
You have me mistaken that I care about Trump’s fee-fees. I really don’t care.
I’ve taken Trump out of the equation, and what’s left is the abject horror that we had our own government abusing their position of power for partisan reasons.
Its like we’re watching our Federal enforcement arm of the government metamorphizing into the US version of the Cheka.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:27 am“I’ve taken Trump out of the equation, and what’s left is the abject horror that we had our own government abusing their position of power for partisan reasons.
Its like we’re watching our Federal enforcement arm of the government metamorphizing into the US version of the Cheka.”
It’s as simple as that.
Colonel Haiku (9186d2) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:32 am@695
Simple.
It’s partisanship.
It’s tribal.
We’re in an era where victimology reign supreme.
Social media and big media companies acting as a PR firm for the Democrat Party doesn’t help either.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:45 amExtending from Nic’s comment, a word about teachers and subduing out-of-control kids.
I may have mentioned that Mrs. Montagu teaches middle-school special-ed kids, and every year she has a kid or two that gets out of control. This year, there’s one particular kid (who doesn’t belong in her class and should have a one-on-one) who can physically wreck–and has physically wrecked–a classroom in mere minutes.
The school district has trained her in techniques that they call Right Response. There’s nothing close to a chokehold, and any physical subduing involves holding a kid’s arms down, avoiding joints and focusing on forearms. Sometimes a single teacher or para can do it, but sometimes it takes a couple of adults.
I assume the process is the same in high school, but considering that the special-ed boys are bigger and stronger, it’s not a one-person job.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:51 amIf there was a foreign power that meddled more in an American election than what Putin did in 2016, I’d like to who and when. For me, I can’t think of another foreign power that came close.
Bottom line, if Putin’s actions weren’t enough to start an FBI counterintelligence investigation, then I really don’t know what is. IMO, the GOP-led Senate Intelligence Committee had it right when they concluded that “the Russian government engaged in an aggressive, multi-faceted effort to influence, or attempt to influence, the outcome of the 2016 presidential election”.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:17 amPaul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:17 am
way to bury the lede, Montagu
foreign powers can be expected to meddle in other country’s elections. We’ve done it
what’s not expected is when domestic law enforcement agencies meddle in our own elections, cheered on by those who pointed their fingers at others for seven years
JF (7bceb7) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:26 amBullsh-t equivalency, JF.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:44 amI’ll ask you the same question I asked myself: Which foreign power meddled in an American election more than what Putin did in 2016?
It’s easy to target Trump with lies because he is immoral and proud of it.
DRJ (853949) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:45 amBTW, JF, even Durham acknowledged that he didn’t unearth political bias by the investigators.
Anyone who’s read a comment thread knows how common confirmation bias happens.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:48 am“if Putin’s actions weren’t enough to start an FBI counterintelligence investigation, then I really don’t know what is”
The GOP is FOR Putin as long as he’s for them. Apparently, Democrats are far more dangerous than Putin. We can’t even agree that Putin is a very bad actor who is never looking for what is best for America. The fact that Putin was actively pushing for Trump should trigger more introspection. Putin understands that Trump provides maximum chaos in our political system for whatever psychological reasons.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:48 amImagine how easy it is for foreign governments to bribe or blackmail him.
DRJ (853949) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:48 amAnything that wasn’t true was totally believable.
DRJ (853949) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:49 amWho here would hire Trump as an employee in charge of your money?
DRJ (853949) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:51 amOnly those foolish people should ever vote for Trump.
DRJ (853949) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:52 amI was a foolish Texas Republican who voted for Trump. I am still a Texan but I learned not to be so foolish, and I will never call myself a Republican again.
DRJ (853949) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:07 amDRJ, I am not surprised that you have turned on Trump at this point, and indeed, it’s difficult for me to imagine how any rational person could declare support for Trump at this point. Before January 6, I can see it, but at this point, I just can’t. It’s like an open declaration that the foundations of our republic, or our need to support a peaceful world order, are considerations that matter less to you than whatever far more petty concern is driving your voting decision.
Patterico (7d4d5c) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:11 amI think it’s time I called it out. If someone continues to support Trump, there is something very wrong in their decisionmaking process. They have surrendered their independent judgment to the BUT THE LEFT IS BAD!!1! mob. Yes, the left is bad. But terrible things are worse than bad things. We have to make judgments in life. This one is actually not very hard.
Patterico (7d4d5c) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:13 amRidiculous. Also not what Durham said. He didn’t say partisan reasons had anything to do with it. And he said opening a limited investigation made sense. All he is saying is: “as a prosecutor who lost every case I took to trial, my opinion is that the investigation they opened was too wide in scope. You should definitely pay attention to me because my judgment is impeccable except for when I bring losing prosecutions.”
Patterico (7d4d5c) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:21 amI think the “I don’t really like Trump but I am happy to spew literally the dumbest line of attack favorable to him every single time regardless of how silly I sound” type of Republican is arguably the worst type of Republican.
Patterico (2fe2dc) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:23 amIt’s the sanctimonious pretension to objectivity coupled with pedestrian spewing of partisan bullshit that I think I find particularly galling.
Patterico (2fe2dc) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:24 amGranted, DeSantis does not have a photogenic laugh, but this coverage of him reminds me of the Dean Scream, which also happened in Iowa.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:48 amPatterico, it’s also worth noting that Durham was very complimentary of the Meuller investigation. Maybe because that was the source of his only conviction?
Time123 (ca187e) — 5/16/2023 @ 9:47 amMemorable NY subway moment (twitter video)
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 9:59 am@712
Bloody hell Pat. You people frustrate to no end. This is not about Trump.
Do I want to see prosecutions? SURE! But I also know that not every BAD DEEDS in government arises to some infractions to the penal codes.
You, of all people, should know this.
Every anti-Trumper wanted to believe the Russian Collusion argument to be so damned true, they’re willing to burn down their own credibility to keep it alive.
This Durham report, emphatically reinforces how wrong the Russian Collusion believer were.
My concern, was the efforts to continue the investigation for obvious partisan reasons, even when they knew there was no “there there”, which casted a pall of shadow that undermined the Trump administration.
Trump left no shortages of valid things we all can criticize. But for the Cheka-lite, ahem ‘scuse me the FBI, to thoroughly debase themselves based on a pure fabrication spearheaded by the Clinton campaign is a far more danger than anything Trump and his flunkies has done, including to what transpired to J6.
The FBI were the ones who interfered with the elections. And it pains me that some here, refuses to even acknowledge that.
whembly (1fe49d) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:03 amPatterico, and DRJ, I feel your pain. I wish that I had a time machine, and show people what they used to believe about character. I detested HRC. I detest JRB. This based on many years of observation of both. But I could not vote for DT.
For me, it is his character. And it isn’t about his crudeness or bullying nature. His people had some good ideas, that could help the nation, and he still couldn’t help himself from being a horrific person. It’s like an internet poster who knows that their style offends others, and even works against their goals…But. Just. Cannot. Control. Themself.
Honestly, I think that some folks on the Left tell themselves that DT is so bad, even breaking the law is okay. I do NOT agree with that.
If voters vote someone awful into office, that is how democracy works. I don’t have to like or admire it, though.
But my vote is mine. And I reject the nonsense that a third party vote is a vote for the DNC. I vote my ethos, period.
Best wishes.
Simon Jester (ca4340) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:05 amI think it’s time I called it out. If someone continues to support Trump, there is something very wrong in their decisionmaking process.
I think one should differentiate between voting for Trump on a failed presidential ballot and “supporting Trump.”
I will do everything I can to have another candidate (at this point, any other candidate, even Santorum or Kasich) nominated by the GOP. I have already donated to two who I think would be great. BUt I’m not picky when it comes to “not being Trump.”
If it happens that the general election is Trump vs Biden with no credible 3rd party choice, then the system has utterly failed. At that point I will pick the least awful. It will be a matter of damage control, nothing more, and will probably be based on platform alone. I may flip a coin.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:09 amwhembly (d116f3) — 5/12/2023 @ 7:04 am
I think he’s a little bit better than the others — but not necessarily competent – it depends on what knowledge he shows, and if he will say things that are different from the standard things you hear.
Sammy Finkelnan (5e3860) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:10 amYet there was evidence of collusion, Manafort the most glaring, per the Mueller report, just not sufficient for an indictment.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:20 amWhatever one thinks of the Durham/FBI thing, or the Hilary/FBI thing, or the Mueller/Trump thing — or even the Trump/Stormy thing — these are all normal political scandals. The Republic will not fall. I find their magnification by partisans to be mostly annoying; they do not rise to the level of J6 or the extraordinary powers demanded by AOC in her New Green Deal.
Even Biden’s several constitutional transgressions and his utter failure in Afghanistan don’t add up to trying to maintain power by force and threats of force. But Biden is increasingly becoming his own constitutional danger — not by trying to overturn an election but by more civil forms of usurpation. At times it seems that he is not really running the show, but some cabal of his party is pulling the strings.
And then we come to policy. Luckily Biden does not have Obama’s 60-vote Senate. Luckily Trump never did. Both have some terrible policy “ideas” (e.g. Biden’s back-to-the-50s tax plan, or Trump’s attempts to eliminate birthright citizenship).
This all sucks.
I doubt the Democrat Party can do better than Biden this year. The GOP certainly can do better than Trump. Please God.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:21 am@690. You forget: he was ‘The New Nixon.”
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:22 amand if he will say things that are different from the standard things you hear.
This is important. I like Nikki Haley, but she seems to pass every utterance through a handful of focus groups first, to the point where it’s just homogenized Republican talking points.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:25 am@431. =yawn= You confuse failing law with the quest for justice– and it is justice that keeps rooting the populism. Lived and worked there– suffered those hellish rides for 15 years and if you’ve truly ridden them even for a week, you should know better. Penny’s a hero and NYers need more citizens like’em. Or perhaps you’d prefer the next time a plane splashes down into the Hudson, NYers should turn their backs and ‘not get involved’ … =sarc=
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:44 am@431. Postscript. The real world isn’t nearly the hellscape the outrage merchants on either side want you to believe it is.
Except it is. Ask a Ukrainian.
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:47 am@norcal@645 Before I went back to grad school I had several, um, interesting, jobs that convinced me to go back to grad school. One of them was in a type of treatment facility for teenagers who had mostly fallen out of the foster-care system for various reasons like severe mental health issues or addiction, etc.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:09 amJanuary 6 was just another symptom in a long list of symptoms coming to a boil in the cauldron of populism. And it’s not unique to either major party. Their failure to address the needs of the citizenry over the past 40 years or so keeps fueling it and it is rooting deeper and deeper. It’s foolish to underestimate or dismiss the power of populism. More and more voters do not identify with either major party. It is a frustrated electorate sending a message.
It is questionable judgment to prefer a candidate w/next to no ethics, clearly mentally deficient, rejected for lying about his personal credentials and demonstrating habitual plagiarism, driven from the presidential race 34 years ago for that- and plagiarism- is the preferred alternative to Trump. It’s a matter of the lesser of two evils. If Trump, the current populist flag bearer, rec’d less votes in the 2020 cycle, there would be some merit to dismissing the populist wave he’s riding. But it is not dying away. It’s clearly not dissipating– which is the fault- and a threat- to the Royalists clinging to power in the major parties failing to address it. Instead, the Old Guard continues w/their Royalist vs. Populist stances. Policy contradictions abound; every institution is laced w/failings; from SCOTUS to POTUS to Congress to the Pentagon to State… even border control has collapsed. You can try to argue the particulars from the castle ramparts, but voters see the contradictions and it affects their lives at street level. And until a significant portion of these issues are addressed, this current wave of populism won’t subside.
39 years ago, a KGB defector chillingly predicted modern America
https://bigthink.com/the-present/yuri-bezmenov/
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:24 amFifty-one New Hampshire state legislators endorse DeSantis: ‘We need winners’
That’s what, 1% of the NH legislature?
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:25 amOK OK. There are only 400 lower house members in NH, not thousands. BY memory must be faulty. But still, 51 is barely a quarter of the 201 Republicans.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:27 amNo surprise you’d believe that Paul and still continue to do so even though it was proven to be based on a lie about Manafort.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/05/durham-report-rips-fbi.php
From the Durham Report that you are ignoring.
NJRob (17d76c) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:28 am@733. Fifty-one New Hampshire state legislators endorse DeSantis: ‘We need winners’
Number of Electoral College votes from New Hampshire: 4.
Iowa- 6. Florida– home of Walt Disney World- 30. Texas: 40. New York: 28. And California– home base to Disneyland and the Walt Disney Company: 54.
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:34 amAssuming they are all from the House of Representatives, it’s nearly 13%.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:40 amNo Republican has a chance of winning New York’s or California’s electoral votes, which represent 15% of the total, so you got to make their numbers in the smaller states.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:44 am@738. I know. Remind congenial, warm and fuzzy DeSantis.
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:48 amTrump leads DeSantis with a RCP average of nearly +25.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:49 amIn New Hampshire.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 11:50 amThe bottom line of this cycle is going to come down to whether a voter’s world and daily livfe was better w/Trump as POTUS or w/Biden as POTUS. And for those ex-Republicans so obsessed w/Never-Trump, the quickest way to rid the party of him is to elect him for the four years he’s limited to and let him get burned out.
The key this cycle is who the VP candidates are- which is rare in election cycles as PoliSci types will tell you [see the hows and whys D party insiders coupled Truman w/FDR in ’44.] Who the R’s urge Trump to select as his ‘apprentice’ VP is the compass heading to watch. Haley? Scott? DeSantis? Etc.,..
We already know Kamala is penciled in as old, mentally deficient Joey’s VP. [HRC is in the wings as a stand in, but the Durham report won’t help.] A President Harris alone is just one, strong grin-and-bear-it checkmark in Trump’s favor- given the polls as he’s likely to get the R party nom. Nikki’s always been my gal for the top spot but the trade winds aren’t blowing in her favor this cycle for the top slot. But given Trump’s issue w/women, Nikki on the ticket checks a lot of positive boxes- ethnicity, gender, age and independent thought moving into the mid 21st century.
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:04 pmNon-sequitur, Rob.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:13 pmThe Mueller report scarcely mentioned Steele, and the investigation was independent of what Steele documented. The primary source for Manafort’s unpatriotic un-American dealings with a Russian spy was Rick Gates (and contemporaneous emails), Manafort’s deputy campaign manager, who cut a plea deal, not Dolan or Danchenko, who aren’t even mentioned in the Mueller report.
You’d know that had you bothered to read any of the Mueller report.
Try again.
I still have a lingering question that you didn’t answer, Rob: You said that Trump’s performance on CNN was “informative”, but what “information” did Trump furnish that was useful or interesting?
Second question, and it’s one JF didn’t answer: Which foreign power meddled in an American election more than what Putin did in 2016?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:24 pmA corollary: If no other foreign power meddled in an American election more than Putin’s 2016 effort, why would the FBI Counterintelligence not investigate?
Keep doubling down and running interference from the truth Paul.
Never change.
NJRob (17d76c) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:32 pmNoted, your evasions of both questions, Rob.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:34 pmI’ll also conclude by your response that you don’t having the first f-cking clue what’s in the Mueller report.
“In my studies of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is …in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A variety of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
—- Theodore Dalrymple
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:42 pmHi DCSCA. I asked a Ukrainian. He said: “DCSCA pretends to give a shit about Ukraine? That guy would be perfectly happy to see all of us die.”
Smart guy, that Ukrainian.
Patterico (69cffb) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:56 pmMy favorite thing is watching the most brazen Trumpist hacks yammer about their Very Serious Concerm for Truth and Justice.
Patterico (69cffb) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:58 pmWho’s pretending; don’t give a sh!t about Ukraine. But that doesn’t change the fact ‘the real world isn’t a hellscape.’
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 12:59 pmYou’re such serious people! Your thoughts are so deep! Please give me more Brilliant Analysis about the guy who tried to steal an election and would sell Ukraine down the river in two seconds is just the thing this country needs! You contribute so much and you’re just so so smart!!!
If I can be serious for a moment, I am really starting to wonder why I should continue to pay money for people I think are spewing mindless partisan nonsense to do so on my platform.
Patterico (69cffb) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:05 pm“I want everybody to stop dying. They’re dying. Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. And I’ll have that done in 24 hours I’ll have it done. You need the power of the presidency to do it… I want Europe to put up more money. Because they’re in for 20 billion, [we’re] in for 170 and they should equalize. They have plenty of money. I got NATO to pay hundreds of millions that they weren’t paying under Obama and Bush and all these other presidents. That’s why they’re able to help them fight the war, because of the money I got… I want Europe to put up more money. They’re laughing at us. They think we’re a bunch of jerks. We’re spending $170 billion for a faraway land and they’re right next door to that land and they’re in for $20. I don’t think so.” – Donald J. Trump CNN Town Hall, 5/10/23
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:06 pmYou support evil.
Patterico (8cb84e) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:15 pmI deleted a couple of comments with stronger language that reflects my true feelings but which probably ought not have been posted.
Patterico (8cb84e) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:16 pmTrump’s comments on Ukraine are the dumbest thing I have heard on the topic and the idea that a grown man would quote him favorably is an embarrassment.
Patterico (8cb84e) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:17 pmColonel Haiku (a2cfbe) — 5/11/2023 @ 1:20 pm
Neither does anybody else, including the Federal Reserve Board, which doesn’t understand that they manipulate the interest rate market so much, that he pricing of long term interest rates is not correct. I think they think it reflects interest rate expectations — in reality it affects Federal Reserve Board policy expectations, which they know in a little way — that’s why they normally want to go slow and give guidance.
When supervising banks, they did not anticipate that sale prices of long term Treasury bons issues would drop, and so the banks did not have enough ready reserves to handle a drop in deposits.
In general nobody understands. There is no explanationas to why unemployment is so low – it’s not people dropping out of thelabor force more.
ALl the explanations for why inflation took off are wrong because this was a worldwide phenomena.
Sammy Finkelnan (5e3860) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:21 pmAnyone who can’t bring themselves to say they want Ukraine to win this war is some combination of absurdly ignorant and just plain evil.
Why do I pay for such people to spread their ignorance and evil on my dime? I will be taking a second look at this.
I have been reading through Mill again on the importance of dissenting opinion. It is very difficult to reconcile his high-minded defense with the drivel I see in this comment section every day. Even Mill says argument will not convince mindless partisans. But what else do we have these days?
Patterico (8cb84e) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:22 pm@753. Not really. It’s the lesser of two evils we are faced with. And that’s the fault of the parties. My vote is firmly w/Nikki, but given the term limits on both Trump and Biden -assuming both live and get their respective party nominees, the #2 spot is quite significant this cycle- which is rare. A President Harris is a distinct possibility. And Trump’s number 2, assuming he doesn’t collapse face down in a bowl of ice cream and chocolate cake is certain to be #1 on the runway in 2028. It’s likely going to come down to voters deciding if their lives were better w/Trump as POTUS or w/Biden as POTUS. The grocery store, the gas station, the bank are places to take polls.
And having just finished dealing w/three years of true Evil first hand- my own brother no less- I know it when I see it. A genuine Demon who hasn’t even cared about the disposition of his own mother’s remains. Little wonder she disinherited him.
DCSCA (26c278) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:28 pmTrump is only trying to fool people about Ukraine – it’s his audience whom he thinks is dumb or uninformed, and many wouldn’t understand how irrelevant, even if they were totally true (about who’s spending more. the U.S.A. or the rest of NATO, and how people on neither side of the war want to die) his comments are.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/06/counteroffensive-ukraine-zelensky-crimea/673781
Of course it would be better if whoever is in charge concludes the war was a crime, and acts upon it, but, at a minimum, they must conclude, and accept, that it was a blunder.
Sammy Finkelnan (5e3860) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:37 pmI just read Uncle Tom’s Cabin. DCSCA, you remind me of Evangeline’s mother.
Patterico (8cb84e) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:37 pmThe other day I heard someone talking about all the pain the people in Ukraine have suffered. I told them, you want to hear about pain? You should try walking around with the ankle pain I have been experiencing! The podiatrist says it’s “plantar fasciitis” but I’d like to see him try walking around feeling like this!
Patterico (a65e2d) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:40 pmI just read something today that said that John Stuart Mill’s book “On Liberty” was basically co-authored by his wife — she perused every word Mill said that. And she died.
Sammy Finkelnan (5e3860) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:41 pmDonald Trump is simultaneously the strongest and most powerful leader this world has ever seen and also the greatest victim in world history.
Patterico (a65e2d) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:44 pmHe died too Sammy
Patterico (a65e2d) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:45 pm@699 israel & china.
asset (051679) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:14 pmTraining the Ukrainians I:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:18 pmDesatin strikes again! Latinx truck drivers and shippers are boycotting floriduh over new restrictive laws targetting latinx immigrants. State officials worried about food tampering.
asset (051679) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:19 pmTraining the Ukrainians II:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:22 pmNo mention of A-10s?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:23 pm@766 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:18 pm
The versatility of the F-16 is something to behold.
It’s not as advanced as the F-18/F-35, but the 16s seems to be more than enough match against the Migs the Russians are using.
As to the A-10s, they’re only useful if you can claim air superiority. I don’t Ukraine will ever achieve that, especially being so close to Russia.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:38 pmThe 7 Best European Fighter Jets
American fighters have often been on the lead when it comes to aerial battles. However, despite being outnumbered history cannot deny the competency, capability, and performance of European fighter jets… These days it’s all about collaboration in the European Union. In recent years, Spain collaborated with France and Germany in a project to build the next generation of warplane and enhance European defense. This new project will complement and take over two legendary European middle-weight fighter aircraft, the Typhoon and the Rafale around 2040.
For the time being, here are the seven European’s best fighter jets that ruled the history of aerial combat:
1. Dassault Mirage III
2. SEPECAT Jaguar
3. Panavia Tornado
4. Dassault Mirage 2000
5. Dassault Rafale
6. Saab JAS 39 Gripen
7. Eurofighter Typhoon
https://aerocorner.com/blog/european-fighter-jets/#:~:text=The%207%20Best%20European%20Fighter%20Jets%201%201.,JAS%2039%20Gripen%20…%207%207.%20Eurofighter%20Typhoon
DCSCA (808e58) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:48 pmhttps://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/05/16/a-conspiracy-so-immense-n551190
Yep
NJRob (1253ee) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:49 pmI was being sarcastic, as some here worship the Warthog. The lack of air superiority is the biggest reason Ukraine could not use the A-10; and the fact the Ukrainians would need to train for them just like they need training for the F-16.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:50 pmLike clockwork.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:54 pm@774. Yes, those fighter planes do have 17 jeweled movements, don’t they.
DCSCA (808e58) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:57 pmYou should drop the Dassault Mirage III and SEPECAT Jaguar. They have been retired from European air forces for several years.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:57 pmNo.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:59 pm@776. All the more reason to dump off old inventory on them!
DCSCA (808e58) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:59 pm@777. Except they do. Europe is happy w/’em. They just aren’t peddled by the MIC in the USA.
DCSCA (808e58) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:00 pmGiven your antipathy toward Ukraine, I can see why you send them third-rate merch.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:01 pm@780. Third rate merch?!?: US assessing potential damage of Patriot missile defense system following Russian attack near Kyiv
A US-made Patriot air defense system was likely damaged, but not destroyed, as the result of a Russian missile barrage in and around Kyiv early Tuesday morning local time, a US official tells CNN. – CNN.com
Surely parts are still under warranty. 😉
DCSCA (808e58) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:07 pmTrump leads DeSantis with a RCP average of nearly +25.
Hillary Clinton led Obama by huge margins at one point.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:19 pmTrump’s comments on Ukraine are the dumbest thing I have heard on the topic and the idea that a grown man would quote him favorably is an embarrassment.
Oh, I could probably find dumber, but I’d have to use Google.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:21 pmDesatin strikes again! Latinx truck drivers and shippers are boycotting floriduh over new restrictive laws targetting latinx immigrants. State officials worried about food tampering.
No more Mexican oranges for Florida!
And there are no gay Hispanic truck drivers.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:24 pmThe tanks that will provide to Ukraine “are going through the refurbishment process right now,” Ryder said. “They will be updated, upgraded and prepared for exportability to Ukraine. Because we’re doing this concurrently, we will be able to provide those tanks to them in the fall timeframe to get them into Ukraine before the end of the year.”
Translation: all the good bits are being removed.
Our tanks should be ready for the fight in 2026 at the latest!
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:25 pmThese guys would have been ready to fight WW2 in 1953.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:27 pmAs to the A-10s, they’re only useful if you can claim air superiority. I don’t Ukraine will ever achieve that, especially being so close to Russia.
Well, given that all the advanced fighters Ukraine will get will come from France and Germany, we might as well ship them A-10s. F-15s will take too long to bowdlerize.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:28 pm“I am really starting to wonder why I should continue to pay money for people I think are spewing mindless partisan nonsense to do so on my platform”
Amen. It really does chill meaningful exchange and litter the site. All we get is some form of “no, you’re a liar” or moby-this or moby-that. We get daily jaunts down conspiracy lane and then whatever revolutionary rhetoric asset is peddling.
This place should not be a monolith. People should dissent and offer varying perspectives. I do want to hear how Trump supporters process the news and what animates them. Importantly, how they are able to continue to support him. And for those leaning DeSantis’ way, how can more be converted. But we never really seem to draw much of this out. The interaction seems purposefully and perhaps even pathologically annoying.
It’s like “let’s go pick on people who say they’re Republicans but they just hate Trump”. Hey, we all have warts. But partisanship just looks so silly these days. Both parties can do nothing but talk about the other guy because their own guy is so depressing. Let’s do better. Let’s persuade Trump supporters to move on.
AJ_Liberty (a97743) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:34 pm@786/787 …These guys would have been ready to fight WW2 in 1953…
And they ‘need’ a trillion dollar a year budget to do it!
Time for Uncle Joe to peddle Ukrainian Freedom Fighter War Bonds.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:35 pmThat’s only in New Hampshire.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:36 pmThe Patriot missile system is wildly overrated.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:38 pm@788. AJ, you can’t just ignore 70-plus million Americans. You’ve got to start trying to assess why and what is motivating them to vote the way they are… they aren’t just going to go away… and they’re all not ‘cultists.’
Donald Trump’s 73.6 Million Popular Votes Is Over 7 Million More Than Any Sitting President in History – 11/19/20
President Donald Trump has so far received 73.6 million popular votes in the 2020 election, surpassing the previous record set by President Barack Obama by more than 7 million, giving him the most votes of any sitting president in U.S. history…. Trump has received a total of 73,559,030 votes and counting, according to The New York Times.
That number has set the record for the most votes ever received by a sitting president, surpassing Obama’s 65,915,795 popular votes in his 2012 incumbent victory against Republican challenger Mitt Romney. Trump has received 47.2 percent of the popular vote, compared to President-elect Joe Biden’s 51 percent. Recently, Biden broke his own record with 79 million votes and counting, giving him the most votes of any presidential candidate in history… On November 13, Biden totaled 290 electoral votes after the race was called by some media outlets in Arizona, giving him 20 more electoral votes than needed to defeat Trump…
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-736-million-popular-votes-over-7-million-more-any-sitting-president-history-1548742
It remains a puzzlement to resolve, not ignore, AJ.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:46 pm@791. That’s likely not a comfort to the Israelis managing their Iron Dome system. OTOH, how and where the system was deployed is probably a factor in assessing the vulnerability– especially to a barrage of hypersonic missiles.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:50 pmEvery single person who dismisses what is revealed in the Durham Report–the absolute corruption of our law enforcement and intelligence community and the collusion of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to defraud the American people–is embracing tyranny and rejecting the Constitution.
The legitimacy of our system of government is that we are governed by laws, not men. But it was men who seized the might of the federal government to displace and then neuter the power of an elected President of the United States. Their lies drove him out of office.
Yep
NJRob (1253ee) — 5/16/2023 @ 2:49 pm
This is hyperbolic and apocalyptic language. Over and over, you seem drawn to this kind of thinking. You would do well to avoid seeing things through such a stark lens.
For the most part, it’s not guys with white hats versus guys with black hats.
Politics and world affairs are complicated. Hyperventilation will not help you understand them better.
I suspect that you are hopped up on “news” and opinion from one side.
Read some articles from a source that is neither pro-MAGA nor pro-left. The Dispatch is one such source.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:52 pmRip– Are the A-10s of any value in possibly defending Taiwan? It is an older aircraft as is.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 3:53 pm“It’s not the system. It’s not the parties. It’s the voters.”
So, the question becomes why?
Part of it has to be polarization and that more and more people are influenced by sources that are anything but fair and balanced.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:21 am
Social media provides platforms for people who think their misguided opinions are awesome, and their thinking gets turbocharged when they connect with like-minded others around the globe.
Fragmented “news” and opinion providers, from ideological cable TV to talk radio pundits, constantly reinforcing one school of thought in order to please their viewers/listeners, are another cause of the problem.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:14 pmA-10s are designed to support the infantry and attack tanks. Defending Taiwan will involve long range missiles, cyberwarfare and carrier aircraft. Totally different battlefield. And with improved anti-air missiles, A-10s are sitting ducks.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:14 pm2 Republicans on DeSantis’ N.H. endorsement list say they still back Trump
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:16 pmAnd yet neither of them (or any others) were recommended for prosecution.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:22 pmAllahnick nails it again:
Bolded part mine
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/he-fights/
That describes some people here. Any criticism of Trump is proof of left-wing sympathies.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:22 pm766. Patterico (a65e2d) — 5/16/2023 @ 1:45 pm
I think Harriet died before it was published. In 1858. John Stuart Mill bought a house near the cemetery where she was buried and would visit it from time to time.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/06/canada-legalized-medical-assisted-suicide-euthanasia-death-maid/673790
In Canada, Jordan Neely might have been granted his wish to die.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:35 pmDonald Trump: The Messenger Interview:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:35 pm724. Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 10:20 am
There was no evidence whatsoever that Manafort was acting on behalf of Trump, and not himself and his collusion consisted of playing along with Russians trying to possibly recruit him as an agent and sharing internal poll dats (to convince Putin to keep on supporting Trump?)
Trump did not collude with Russia because Russia did not collude with Trump, since Putin was not going to take Trump into his confidence, if for no other reason
Mike Flynn and Putin were probably in collusion.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:41 pmWhat we learned from the CNN town hall with Trump is that Trump is, if possible, worse than before.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:42 pmRelated:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:43 pmTrump said he would bring Mike Flynn back into the government! Of course this was possibly largely only because Flynn has become a victim to the MAGA crowd.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:43 pm“It’s not the system. It’s not the parties. It’s the voters.” So, the question becomes why?
You don’t blame the voters. When there’s one restaurant open serving you every November and the choices available to hungry patrons on the menu are steamed broccoli or raw broccoli, you don’t blame the customers – or fault them for leaving or just staying home to make a TV dinner, you blame the folks managing the restaurant for offering a limited menu that totally sucks.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:44 pmHuh?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:57 pmBob Iger to Ron DeSantis: Does Florida want our jobs and taxes or not?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/11/business/iger-desantis-disney-florida-feud/index.html
If money talks; the mouse is roaring.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 5:03 pm“THE FEDERALIST CALLS OUT 61 HACKS WHO SHOULD NEVER BE TRUSTED AGAIN AFTER DURHAM REPORT”
https://instapundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/federalist_61_hacks_5-16-23.jpg
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2023/05/16/the-federalist-calls-out-61-hacks-who-should-never-be-trusted-again-after-durham-report/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/16/2023 @ 5:11 pmTalk is cheap. Moving isn’t. It’s cheaper to pay the same taxes as every other theme park in Florida.
Why does our populist love him some big corporate media? Storm everyone’s castle except the one in Lake Buena Vista?
Appalled (9764fc) — 5/16/2023 @ 5:15 pm@611. See #163.
Have talked w/some old Hollywood colleagues about it- Disney certainly isn’t a perfect company and many of us would not have taken a gig to slave away at Mouschwitz at any salary– you have to embrace their corporate culture to endure– but the general consensus is that it’s really, really, REALLY stupid of DeSantis to punch down at a top employer in his state which is supported by thousands of ancillary business and, in the case of DisneyWorld, is the most visited vacation spot on Earth w/58 million people visiting Florida annually, bolstering the economy. And Disney is one of the most recognized and welcomed symbols of America around the world. Have dealt w/Disney professionally. You can negotiate w/them, compromise if they’ll even agree to… but in the end they have all the leverage and the final word. It’s axiomatic: you don’t screw around w/Walt’s legacy; you don’t mess w/t House of Mouse; you just don’t fvck w/Disney. They’re literally an American icon projecting all that’s good about the USA around the planet– and you’ll come up a loser trying to trap the mouse. DeSantis is a fool.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 5:33 pm^@811. typo, Appalled.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 5:37 pmFox’s Neil Cavuto: ‘We owe more than we’re worth’ as a country
https://thehill.com/homenews/3820229-foxs-neil-cavuto-we-owe-more-than-were-worth-as-a-country/
________
US Spending on Weapons and War Remains Higher Than 144 Other Nations Combined
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-military
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 5:51 pm#812
It’s almost like you think that Walt is still in charge and they can do that, handle that, and easy peasy, they’ll find some nice cozy state which can deal with all the things they want to do. Problem is that the current woke mania makes that impossible. Disney World would work fine in Texas, if they find a spot with enough water, but it’s in Texas, where the politics are just as righty.
From a coldly political pov, DeSantis does not need to worry about his state in the long run because he’s intending to move on. In the short term, Disney can huff and puff, but they’ll just blow their own stock price down. Personalizing a company and taking it down is a very Teddy Roosevelt thing to do. It worked real well for him back in the day, as the Rockefeller’s can attest.
Personally, I think Disney got themselves a sweet deal in Florida and it’s natural they want to keep it. Problem is, those sorts of deals NEVER last forever.
Appalled (9764fc) — 5/16/2023 @ 5:55 pmYou don’t blame the voters. When there’s one restaurant open serving you every November and the choices available to hungry patrons on the menu are steamed broccoli or raw broccoli, you don’t blame the customers – or fault them for leaving or just staying home to make a TV dinner, you blame the folks managing the restaurant for offering a limited menu that totally sucks.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:44 pm
You completely missed my point about the primaries. There are many choices in the primaries. If voters don’t opt for the better candidates in the primaries, then yes, I’m going to blame them.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:01 pmTrump is wildly wrong: He’d have a very hard time naming a single person in the pro-life movement who thinks protecting a baby with a heartbeat from elective abortion is “too harsh.” Moreover, a super-majority of GOP primary voters backs a six-week limit on abortion. …….Republican voters overwhelmingly supported such an abortion ban—68 percent to 27 percent.
………
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/16/2023 @ 4:43 pm
On this issue, Trump is not wildly wrong. He’s looking beyond the primary to the general. (He’s not worried about winning the primary.) A six-week ban is not a winner in a general election.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:04 pmTHE FEDERALIST
Someone really ought to sue them for trademark infringement.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:11 pm@816. But if the leading candidates choose not to debate- and why would they if they’re leading and give competition an equal platform- what’s the point. Don’t see Trump going head to head w/his rivals unless he’s losing ground any more than Biden jousting w/RFK Jr., and any other rivals… ‘Crocker Jarman’ didn’t debate ‘Bill McKay’ until his lead evaporated.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:17 pmhttps://twitter.com/columbiabugle/status/1658501544952623104
Nonviolent, 70 year old vet who the leftist prosecutor put a bogus “seditious conspiracy” charge on and is trying to get him to serve 14 years in prison. Anyone want to defend this?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:20 pm@Patterico@757 I have a lot of respect for John Stuart Mill, but in my experience people who think everyone should live only by a very specific interpretation of the Bible don’t tend to give him much weight.
@Rip@805 and norcal@817 I don’t think Trump’s wildly wrong, I think he’s using a phrase he doesn’t understand the meaning of. I don’t think he understands that the “pro-life movement” isn’t the same thing as “people who generally vote pro-life”. If that’s the case, he’s not wrong in that there are people who generally vote pro-life who find some of the laws being put into place to be too harsh. However, if he did, in fact, mean the actual prolife movement, he isn’t correct, but I don’t think that’s what he actually meant. You are right though that a 6 week ban probably isn’t a winner in the general.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:21 pm@815. Just speaking from experience… have colleagues who know Bob Iger personally, too… you just don’t mess with Disney, Appalled. It’s not a smart play- especially for political purposes- and speaks more to DeSantis’ poor judgment than anything else. The House of Mouse has a very long memory.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:21 pm@DCSCA@819 If Trump chooses not to debate, he risks that someone else will get a good amount of mileage out of the debate AND it makes it easier for people to gain that mileage. However, if he chooses to debate he does risk the possibility that he’d look bad, which has also happened in the past and he’d loose mileage for the general. It’s a risk either way.
My personal opinion is that the only way another republican is going to gain much in the primary is to basically ignore Trump and pivot away from any questions about him while presenting their own strong ideas about how they want to govern. I don’t know that anyone in the current possible line up is capable of that.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:26 pmBut if the leading candidates choose not to debate- and why would they if they’re leading and give competition an equal platform- what’s the point.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:17 pm
The point is that primary voters shouldn’t vote for a candidate who refuses to debate.
The problem is the voters.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:26 pm@824. That sounds nice but that’s not how it works- it’s up to the parties to set the ‘rules of engagement’ in their respective primary fights. Why would a leading candidate w/solid support and big lead in the polls bother- or risk- punching down making themselves an equal to their competitors and do it? In Biden’s case he’d be destroyed. And w/Trump, you’d end w/another CNBN Town Hall night. It’s up to the parties to structure it… If you’re desperately hungry, you’ll eat the broccoli– or just stay home… but somebody will win.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:34 pmYou are right though that a 6 week ban probably isn’t a winner in the general.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:21 pm
I agree, minus the “probably”. 😁
I don’t understand the urge to make everything a national case. The federal government should only do that which is outside the purview of the states (printing money, foreign policy, national defense, border control, etc.). The states are certainly capable of handling abortion laws.
These busybodies who get bothered by the fact that another state might choose different abortion laws can go pound sand.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:38 pmThat sounds nice but that’s not how it works
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:34 pm
Are you saying that primary voters don’t have a choice?
You cannot be serious.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:40 pm@823. If he’s 40 points ahead, it won’t matter. You’ll end up with tiers of weenies like the 2016 cycle arguing w/each other or shouting like a Clint-Eastwood-arguing-w-an-empty-chair scenario. And w/a media master like Trump, he’d just hold a rally the next day and if he chose to respond to any remarks, respond alone w/ no rebuttal or controls w/his own steamrolling and w/t crowds cheering on. The best way to get rid of Trump is let him run and if he wins, hope the VP he chooses is a good one for 2028 and can stabilize him for the four year limit he’s confined to– and if he loses, he’s flamed out and done. If he’d been elected last time they’re only be 600 days left to endure him– rather than four years looming.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:44 pm@827. Sure they have a choice. Let’s see if RFK Jr. can knock off Joe. Good luck w/that. But if you think Hutchinson or Elder are going to bump off Trump, w/t lead he’s developing, you’re dreaming.
DCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:46 pm@norcal@826 For a lot of people in the pro-life movement it isn’t about federalism and never was. It’s about murdering babies and they couldn’t stop the murdering of the babies until Roe vs. Wade was overturned but now they can at the federal level and that’s the point for them.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:51 pmDCSCA (82aea9) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:46 pm
Now you’re changing the argument from “not blaming the voters” into “who is likely to win”.
This is why people get exasperated with you, DCSCA.
When the voters have a choice in the primary, and they choose lesser candidates (Trump and Hillary in 2016, Biden in 2020), it is proper to blame the voters.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:53 pmhttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-carolina-abortion-law-general-assembly-overides-governor-roy-cooper-veto-becomes-law/
A 12 week ban is more than reasonable. The leftist governor wasn’t reasonable. He was overruled.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:57 pmFor a lot of people in the pro-life movement it isn’t about federalism and never was.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:51 pm
I suspect many of them would prefer a dictator who was pro-life over an elected leader who was pro-choice.
I can’t stand zealots and busybodies.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 6:57 pmhttps://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/05/16/sen-markey-introduces-bill-to-pack-supreme-court-claims-two-justices-have-no-right-to-be-there-1359557/
Voting for Democrats results in the destruction of the rule of law. They would gladly turn us into a Venezuela if they had the power to do so.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:00 pmNothing to say about the absolutists on the left who want abortion up to and including after birth like Obama did? And they violated the law to do so when they created Roe v Wade?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:03 pmNJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:00 pm
I agree that this is something to be concerned about. Shame on Markey. Here’s to hoping his cockamamie idea doesn’t get any traction.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:03 pmNJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:03 pm
I have previously said that I thought Roe was bad law, and I would be just as opposed to abortion up to and including after birth as I would an abortion ban.
Do I need to recite every comment I’ve ever made in order to make a new one?
Don’t be so aggrieved, Rob. That can’t make for a happy life.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:07 pmNo norcal, but it does help to not attack conservative positions all the time. It’s reflexive to be anti-Trump and bash religious conservatives, but then you forget why people vote for those. And all it does is help those radicals on the left like Markey and AOC. Some nuance would be appropriate if you want others to look at things in shades of gray versus black and white.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:10 pm@norcal@833 I suspect you are correct.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:11 pmit does help to not attack conservative positions all the time
NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:10 pm
Do you really think I do that, or are you conflating Trump with conservatism, because I assure you they are not the same.
Conservatism respects the Constitution. Trump wants to terminate it. Did you miss the tweet where he stated that?
norcal (15fce4) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:15 pm@831. Hardly. The voters have a choice, broccoli, broccoli or not to eat. But no matter what, either the backers of steamed or raw will choose the winner.
DCSCA (e6d255) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:29 pmThe point is that primary voters shouldn’t vote for a candidate who refuses to debate.
Norcal, who says- you? This is just elitist- this blame the voter stuff has the scent of sour grapes. A voter can decide their candidate is quite savvy by choosing NOT to debate w/trailing candidates and thus avoid elevate his or her competitors to their level.
DCSCA (e6d255) — 5/16/2023 @ 7:50 pmMore mindreading, this time of a Russian dictator. Sigh.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/16/2023 @ 8:44 pm@816
I agree, and in fact, I’m seeing more on social media expressing lack of empathy by saying “you voted for it”. Reminds me of those black residents in Chicago making loud noises about the fact that their cities are seeing an influx of illegal immigrant that is putting the black resident’s voting power in a weaker position.
It’s why I’ve been so adamant about being engaged during the Primaries. Be vocal about it among your circles.
Because, at the end of the day, when bad candidates wins the primary in their party, its the fault of the voters, and those who chose to ignore the primary.
You get what you vote for. You don’t like it, take it upon yourselves to be more engaged in the next election.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/17/2023 @ 6:37 am@817
Depends on how it’s presented.
If its an argument at the federal level, Trump’s position is probably right.
However, I hope the other candidates really leans into federalism on this topic, and advocate for state-by-state to address it. But be honest, that if it by some miracle get passed in Congress, that it would be considered.
Honestly, I think the best way to navigate this, is to champion the federalism concept more, (ie, let California be California and Missouri be Missouri).
whembly (d116f3) — 5/17/2023 @ 6:41 am“I read Special Counsel John Durham’s “Report on Matters Related to Intelligence Activities and Investigations Arising Out of the 2016 Presidential Campaigns” yesterday in a state I can only describe as psychic exhaustion. As Sue Schmidt’s “Eight Key Takeaways” summary shows, the stuff in this report should kill the Trump-Russia conspiracy theory ten times over, but we know better than that. This story never dies. Every time you shoot at it, it splits into six new deep state fantasies.
I’ve given up. Nearly seven years ago this idiotic tale dropped in my relatively uncomplicated life like a grenade, upending professional relationships, friendships, even family life. Those of us in media who were skeptics or even just uninterested were cast out as from a religious sect — colleagues unironically called us “denialists” — denounced in the best case as pathological wreckers and refuseniks, in the worst as literal agents of the FSB.
Especially through March 22, 2019, when the devastating news broke that the report of Special Counsel Robert Mueller would be delivered without new indictments, the vehemence of this national wig-out was breathtaking. Jail-Trumpism truly became a religion during this time. I remember walking down the corridor of our Jersey City apartment building to walk the dog, hearing Rachel Maddow’s nightly crazy-casts blasting out from behind door after door, like the Songs of Angkar filling a Cambodian village.”
https://www.racket.news/p/durham-is-too-late-to-stop-the-madness?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1042&post_id=121805307&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email
Colonel Haiku (ad63c2) — 5/17/2023 @ 6:55 am(ie, let California be California and Missouri be Missouri).
And you will keep the suburban middle-class who hate George Soros more than the inconvenience of having to travel out of state for an abortion. And shut up about left over embryos from in vitro fertilization too.
nk (bb1548) — 5/17/2023 @ 6:58 am@844. ‘The origins of primary elections can be traced to the progressive movement in the United States, which aimed to take the power of candidate nomination from party leaders to the people. However, political parties control the method of nomination of candidates for office in the name of the party. Other methods of selecting candidates include caucuses, internal selection by a party body such as a convention or party congress, direct nomination by the party leader, and nomination meetings… in modern politics, primary elections have been described as a vehicle for taking decision-making from political insiders to the voters, though political science research indicates that the formal party organizations retain significant influence over nomination outcomes.’ – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_election
The parties control the caliber and quality of candidates voters get to choose. If voters have a choice between a bad party hack and a worse party hack, you don’t blame the voters- blame the parties for ‘rigging’ the system in their self-perpetuating favor.
DCSCA (c42372) — 5/17/2023 @ 6:59 amPolitical parties are weaker than ever.
Candidates can completely bypass parties, raise money via the internet, and generate buzz through alternative media and social media. There are no more smoked-filled backrooms where experienced pols manage who moves forward and who must wait their term.
The problem is that we’ve overly democratized the question. Now, we are overly driven by mobs that are fairly ignorant about policy and process. Populism is what got us thousands of morons at the Capitol acting the fools. Populism gets us lazy rhetoric and over-simplified solutions. Populism preys on our worst biases and prejudices. Populism replaces knowledge with emotion.
Right now instead of indulging more emotionalism, we should be investing in institutions. Populism tears everything down and then replaces it with anything substantive. The GOP is a reaking mess. It was producing a good stock of Presidential candidates. Now, populism is giving us who in the future: Tucker? Don Jr?
This jihad against “elites” feeds this mob instinct to burn everything to the ground. Precisely what Putin wants. He wants us weak, not united, and following false prophets. And then there are his useful idiots….
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/more-professionalism-less-populism.pdf
AJ_Liberty (2e421c) — 5/17/2023 @ 7:26 amDCSCA,
Check the age of that research. If the party decides, really, Trump would not have been the nominee in 2016, and Perdue would have been the GOP governor candidate in Georgia in 2022. You are citing some Romney era studies.
Appalled (992434) — 5/17/2023 @ 7:29 am@847
Uh… what?
What is the point here?
whembly (d116f3) — 5/17/2023 @ 7:44 am@848 DCSCA (c42372) — 5/17/2023 @ 6:59 am
I refuse to embrace nihilism D.
The primaries/caucus is the only vehicle we have to make our choices known and our biggest problem is the lack of engagement.
I don’t remember the stats, but during the primaries/caucus, only about 30% ish of GOP voters VOTE in these elctions. 30%. That’s pathetic and it DOES give the party power figures massive influence.
So, no, I will not lay blame solely on party leaderships. That’s a cop-out. Most of the blame falls on the voters. And, until that’s recognized, we’re going to see that same crap, over and over again.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/17/2023 @ 7:48 amWhat is the point here?
I should think it’s obvious.
For abortion, the Republican voters’ ox will not be gored too badly. Not more than “Darn it, Olivia, mummy and I were looking forward to that three-day weekend in Vegas!”
As for in vitro fertilization and the disposal of the left over embryos, that’s a suburban middle class hot potato too.
nk (daf82c) — 5/17/2023 @ 8:20 amI disagree.
Over time, I think the outrage over abortion is going to subside.
Weren’t we supposed to see women dying all of the place by now?
whembly (d116f3) — 5/17/2023 @ 8:33 amNot yet, because they still have the ability to travel to pro-abortion states.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 8:58 amJonah’s thoughts about Biden’s immigration approach–using PR in lieu of formulating an actual immigration plan–are similar to mine, and I don’t see him doing anything constructive about it, this year or next.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/17/2023 @ 9:33 amLoser:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 9:48 am“This past weekend, Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) reminded voters, and a skeptical press that have spent an inordinate amount of time writing his political obituary before he even launched his candidacy, he not only possesses the promise and nimbleness needed to be a candidate for president but that he also has the staff and network needed to pull off just the right move to strike a blow against his rival, former President Donald Trump.
People underestimate DeSantis only at their own peril.
The Florida governor began the weekend Friday in Illinois as the keynote speaker at the Lincoln Day Dinner for Peoria and Tazewell counties. The Peoria Journal Star said he drew a crowd of more than 1,100 to the Peoria Civic Center.
Early Saturday morning, DeSantis started his first campaign event in Sioux Center, Iowa, as a guest at Rep. Randy Feenstra’s annual Feenstra Family Picnic, spent time greeting folks at a classic car museum, stopped at a Pizza Ranch, and finished out the day at an unplanned event, standing on a table with his wife at Jethro’s BBQ.
All of DeSantis’s headline events went off without a hitch. In that regard, they were very similar to speeches I attended several weeks ago that he gave in Camp Hill, Pennsylvania, and Akron, Ohio, where he was greeted with robust support after delivering speeches that outlined his aspirations for the country, his accomplishments as a governor, and his promise to take on the cultural headwinds in our country.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/the-great-underestimation-of-desantis-starts-to-unravel
Colonel Haiku (ad63c2) — 5/17/2023 @ 10:25 amWe’ll see. One successful visit to Iowa doesn’t make a successful nomination campaign. Who he endorses reflects upon his judgement.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 10:41 amWhere does DeSantis stand on corn-based ethanol subsidies? Oh, wait:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 11:43 am@855
Oh, so yeah for federalism amirite?
whembly (d116f3) — 5/17/2023 @ 12:02 pmPeople overestimate DeSantis only at their own peril.
FIFY, Washington Examiner.
… as Mickey, Minnie, Pluto, Donald and The Donald smiled.
DCSCA (73bc4e) — 5/17/2023 @ 12:20 pm@850. Appalled, the party decided to let- what.. 16 candidates run un the various primary structures of the states in the 2015 cycle; it was the ‘party’ that set itself up for the eventual Trump win. And even through the impeachments, it was ‘the party’ vote that saved him from being nailed. The parties control the primaries. It’s their game; you can’t blame the voters for the choices presented to them. It’s all on the party elite.
_____
@862. Understand what you’re saying, whembley– but unfortunately, it is what it is given the two party lock on the system in the states. The problem rests w/t tweo major parties and the elites who control them, the structure and gatekeep who run and gets or doesn’t get the funds.
DCSCA (73bc4e) — 5/17/2023 @ 12:32 pmPolitical parties are weaker than ever.
Which is why one saved Trump from TWO impeachments votes and the other successfully ran a mentally deficient candidate for POTUS and for a seat in the U.S. Senate representing Pennsylvania. Thanks for playing.
DCSCA (73bc4e) — 5/17/2023 @ 12:39 pm865… Salena Zito knows what she’s talking about, DCSCA. You, not so much. No offense intended.
Colonel Haiku (5e39f5) — 5/17/2023 @ 12:43 pm@868. Dream on, Haiku; He punches down and has demonstrated poor judgment several times.
DCSCA (73bc4e) — 5/17/2023 @ 12:46 pm863… all the problems this nation faces and YOU (and insider) highlight THAT!?!?
Amusing.
Colonel Haiku (5e39f5) — 5/17/2023 @ 12:49 pmFlorida passes bill to prevent billionaires like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos being sued if their mega-rockets kill or injure people– businessinsider.com
Preferential treatment for big corporations in Florida, Governor DeSantis??? Jiminy Cricket!
“When You Wish Upon a Star” – Jiminy Cricket [Cliff Edwards] ‘Pinocchio’ 1940, The Walt Disney Company
DCSCA (73bc4e) — 5/17/2023 @ 1:02 pmIt’s a big deal in Iowa.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 1:21 pmTrumpworld not happy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 1:46 pmMarkey’s Judiciary Act of 2023, which pro-abortion groups Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America endorsed, would add four seats to the Supreme Court. During his press conference on the Supreme Court steps, Markey called for Justice Clarence Thomas to resign and claimed that two justices have “no right to be there.”
This would be called “restoring judicial independence” without a hint of irony.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:15 pmMTG is not the only politician who needs to pander to their wacko-birds.
nk (5c10b0) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:17 pmNo norcal, but it does help to not attack conservative positions all the time.
Abortion bans are not conservative. A true conservative wants little radical change. That would be a radical change. A conservative today would be more concerned about trans activism in the schools than banning something that has been around for 50 years.
I know there are people who want to end direct election Senators or make Robert E Lee’s birthday a national holiday, but they are not conservatives, but radicals.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:21 pmHonestly, I think the best way to navigate this, is to champion the federalism concept more, (ie, let California be California and Missouri be Missouri).
While I like the idea of federalism, there are some rights that MUST transcend states. The first section of the 14th Amendment talks about this, without defining it. For 100 years it was mostly ignored. I think we can all agree that states may not deprive American citizens of certain fundamental rights, not limited to those in the Bill of Rights, there is a gray edge to that.
Is the right to choose a gender part of that?
Is the right to a early-term abortion part of that?
Is the right to bear arms part of that?
Is the right to publish silly lies part of that?
No matter how you answer those questions, you run up against the idea of Federalism.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:27 pmROFLMAOPIP:
Just announced at #WBDUpfront: @KaitlanCollins is the new anchor of CNN’s 9pm hour. In her new program, officially launching later this summer, Kaitlan will bring fresh reporting that adds new perspective to the biggest stories of the day. Join us in congratulating Kaitlan!
Loser Hillary Rodham Clinton wore a white pants suit on the TeeVee too as she accepted challenging Donald Trump. That ended well, didn’t it, Kaitlan.
DCSCA (a1a10b) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:29 pm860:
There won’t be a missed payment. There are so many other ways to handle hitting the deb ceiling.
The old Obama plan was to pay debt service and prioritize everything else by date scheduled, so if there wasn’t enough cash on hand to pay all the payments de, they wait a day.
The Washington Post is knowingly printing false Biden Administration propaganda.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:32 pmBefore there was a debt ceiling, the federal government kept cash on hand and raised taxes or borrowed before payments were due, always authorized by Congresses. It got money ib a few other ways too..
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:34 pmUnder the original understanding of the Fourteenth Amendment the answer to 1 and 2 is no (because the authors of amendment would not have even thought of “changing” gender or abortion as fundamental rights), while 3 and 4 are explicitly protected in the Bill of Rights.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:42 pmFrom CBS:
“Steven Spainhouer rushed to Allen Premium Outlets — a shopping center in Allen, a Dallas-Fort Worth suburb, where the shooting happened — when his son called just after 3:30 p.m. local time and said he had heard gunfire.
The gunman was identified as Mauricio Garcia, 33, the Texas Department of Public Safety confirmed Sunday. Investigators are looking into whether the gunman was motivated by domestic violent extremist ideals, according to a law enforcement source, who told CBS News senior investigative producer Pat Milton that the perpetrator was heavily armed and appeared to be on a mission.
The source said the gunman used an assault-style weapon, had multiple rounds of ammunition on his person and was wearing armored ballistic gear.
“When I heard those shots, and then when the multiple shots happened, my heart just immediately just dropped,” said Spainhouer’s son, who works in the H&M store at Allen Premium Outlets. The shooter opened fire in the parking lot outside, authorities said.
In an emotional interview with CBS News Texas, Spainhouer recalled performing CPR and administering aid to those suffering from injuries in the lot. He arrived at the scene before authorities, who did not get there for about 10 minutes, according to CBS News Texas.
“I never imagined in 100 years I would be thrust into the position of being the first first responder on the site to take care of people,” Spainhouer said, noting that at least three victims could not be saved even after he applied CPR.
“The first girl I walked up to was crouched down covering her head in the bushes,” he recalled. “So I felt for a pulse, pulled her head to the side, and she had no face.”
Spainhouer also helped a child who survived the shooting and was hiding beneath his mother’s body. The mother had died.
“When I rolled the mother over, he came out. I asked him if he was OK and he said, ‘My mom is hurt, my mom is hurt,'” he said. “So, rather than traumatize him anymore, I pulled him around the corner sat him down.”
The boy was “covered from head to toe” in blood, Spainhouer told CBS News Texas, “like somebody poured blood on him.”
Spainhouer said, “no one can see what they saw today and not be affected by it.”
“It’s just unfathomable to see the carnage,” he continued. “It’s tough when you see a family that’s out shopping, having fun, get wiped off the face of the earth because somebody with a gun has some other type of issue.”
The Allen PD now says: This guy is full of Democrat.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/allenpdstatement.jpg
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/404477.php#404477
Colonel Haiku (5e39f5) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:42 pmIn the summer of 1968, while anti-Vietnam War protesters roared through the streets of Chicago, Hubert Humphrey was inside a convention hall accomplishing something that would be unthinkable today: He won his party’s presidential nomination without ever having entered, much less won, a single presidential primary.
Never mind that one of his competitors had been assassinated, and the President who he served was reviled by most Democrats as a warmonger. Humphrey continued to support the war and his party was so divided that he lost a 3-way race to Richard Nixon.
1968 would have been the nadir of the Democrats, with a nominee chosen by a power structure that had been repudiated by the party’s voters. Eugene McCarthy probably would have won, but he was given short shrift by the apparatchiks that chose Humphrey.
Whatever became of Hubert? (Tom Lehrer, 1965)
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:45 pmAnd then, in 1968, Tom Lehrer penned the following for the McCarthy campaign (same tune):
Just look what’s become of Hubert
All sunshine and smiles, here he comes
Angry men he deplores
And he simply adores
Happy riots, happy wars,
Happy slums.
For three lonely years he’s been pinned in
And spent them out-Lydoning Lyndon
So pardon us please if we gawk
At a parrot who’s also a hawk
And please don’t think that we’re naive
‘Cause we’re backing Eugene McCarthy
Things come true if you believe
As the Wizard once said to Dor’thy
Whatever became of you, Hubert?
You just haven’t been the same
Oh you once were so nice
But you paid a big price
So that you could put Vice
Before your name.
And what of the rumor that we overheard
That LBJ now calls you “Hubert Bird”
Well, Hubie, chacun à son goût
But Hubert, what happened to you?
[Alt.:] We know what became of Hubert
Since he became our VP
He was our pride and joy
But he’s now Lyndon’s boy
Only he calls it loy —
Alty.
You lost us the day that you sold out
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:51 pmAnd now you’ll find, baby, it’s cold out
Under the original understanding of the Fourteenth Amendment the answer to 1 and 2 is no (because the authors of amendment would not have even thought of “changing” gender or abortion as fundamental rights), while 3 and 4 are explicitly protected in the Bill of Rights.
Number 3 is still denied to this day in places. Even racial equality was denied for well over 100 years (and some say it still is). The 14th Amendment made no mention of the BIll of Rights or what rights it encompasses. Looking to legislative intent is tricky. I am certain that they had no intention of protecting rights on the Internet. Even some aspects of birthright citizenship (particularly via tourism) remain debatable.
The point is that Federalism has limitations, and those limitations have been debated since the Founding, and will continue to be debated. In the end, it becomes “the right to do WHAT!@?”
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/17/2023 @ 2:58 pmWhich is why states should not be able to regulate firearms; this is one area that begs for a national standard.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/17/2023 @ 3:26 pm@883 Biden says hold my beer!
asset (b359de) — 5/17/2023 @ 8:12 pm@884 Country joe mcdonald’s fixen to die rag still best anti-vietnam war song. Uncle sam has got himself in a terrible jam way down yonder in vietnam/iraq/afganistan and now thanks to reagan central america.
asset (b359de) — 5/17/2023 @ 8:17 pmCommunications Director for George Santos could well be the toughest job on Capitol Hill, but Ms. Woomer threw in the towel, right after the House voted to refer his fraudulence to the Ethics Committee. Her parting shot was, “Unfortunately, you never took one point of professional advice given.”
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/18/2023 @ 9:34 amWhich is why states should not be able to regulate firearms; this is one area that begs for a national standard.
Well, I could argue that the other way. The Founder’s fear was that the national government would try to ban guns, and thought that reserving the regulation to the states (the normal regulators of militias) would be better.
But really, this is the kind of thing that makes true federalism a bit scary. Should Mississippi have the right to impose segregation? They did once. Also, see Cruikshank for the problem with full-on federalism.
OTOH, once you decide that the states cannot be trusted with some things, the question becomes “which things?” and where the line might be.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/18/2023 @ 9:55 amnow thanks to reagan central america.
Central and South America is where socialism is being tried again. Maybe this time will be different.
Kevin M (213cd6) — 5/18/2023 @ 9:57 amAnypne care to defend Biden’s DOJ going after whistleblowers within the FBI?
NJRob (998f49) — 5/18/2023 @ 10:20 amYou mean the FBI agents whose security clearances were revoked because of their sympathies toward the J6 rioters? And that Jim Jordan shares those same sympathies? Sounds like they’re “whistleblowers”, not whistleblowers, but we’ll see what they said, hopefully under oath.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/18/2023 @ 11:11 amIt should improve their credibility when they testify.
Rip Murdock (06ef16) — 5/18/2023 @ 11:39 amhttps://www.newser.com/story/335427/pelosi-has-a-connection-to-feinsteins-recovery.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/18/2023 @ 4:43 pmWe care about whistleblowers now?
Tell Vindman.
Find me one person whining about these “whistleblowers” who cared about Vindman. One. Until you do, those people are noxious hypocrites.
Patterico (8d1bb4) — 5/18/2023 @ 9:11 pmFind me one person whining about these “whistleblowers” who cared about Vindman. One. Until you do, those people are noxious hypocrites.
Patterico (8d1bb4) — 5/18/2023 @ 9:11 pm
You don’t get it. Vindman wasn’t part of my tribe. He wore a black hat. These FBI whistleblowers wear white ones.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/18/2023 @ 9:54 pm@897 Vindman was great these whistleblowers are great. Going after whistleblowers is not great wither it was pentagon papers or this. The one I do have a problem with is col. mccormick over the battle of midway leaking breaking japanese code and congress person who leaked japanese were setting their depth charges to deep which cost us many submarines. Since then not much maybe wilson’s wife worked for the CIA.
asset (35dd6f) — 5/18/2023 @ 11:10 pmVindman could also be described as a witness, given that he listened in on Trump’s infamous call and was in the meeting where Sondland, at Trump’s behest, urged Ukrainians to investigate Hunter Biden.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/19/2023 @ 7:16 amVindman’s “crime” was to answer a House subpoena and testify under oath, and he’s been vilified by Trump and his Trumpalistas as a “traitor” ever since.
Kevin and Rip brought up the Farmington shooter, but it’s yet another case of a mentally ill teenager going on a shooting spree with a weapon he shouldn’t have possessed, and the lives of three innocent women were snuffed out as a result. He legally purchased the machine gun* a month after his 18th birthday.
* Yes, it’s not technically a machine gun, but the 190 rounds fired belie that technicality.
Why not universal background checks, sensible red-flag laws, an age requirement for more lethal firearms, mental-and-proficiency testing for said lethal firearms.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/19/2023 @ 7:31 amThe current background check system is fine. Age requirements that exceed 18 should be considered unconstitutional (ro be clear there are no federal age restrictions on purchasing rifles or shotguns, only handguns. and a district court has recently be ruled them unconstitutional), and mental competency exams are out of the question. There is no history of requiring mental health exams to purchase firearms (the Bruen standard).
Rip Murdock (dca0fa) — 5/19/2023 @ 9:03 am