Patterico's Pontifications

3/3/2023

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:01 am



[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

First news item

Look who made it very clear that he never wanted changes made to his work:

[A] conversation [Roald Dahl] had 40 years ago has come to light, revealing that he was so appalled by the idea that publishers might one day censor his work that he threatened to send the crocodile “to gobble them up”.

The conversation took place in 1982 at Dahl’s home in Great Missenden, Buckinghamshire, where he was talking to the artist Francis Bacon.

“I’ve warned my publishers that if they later on so much as change a single comma in one of my books, they will never see another word from me. Never! Ever!” he said.

Readers with Dahl’s works loaded on their Kindles are now saying that their libraries have been automatically updated with the bowdlerized versions, without their knowledge or consent:

Owners of Roald Dahl ebooks are having their libraries automatically updated with the new censored versions containing hundreds of changes to language related to weight, mental health, violence, gender and race.

Readers who bought electronic versions of the writer’s books, such as Matilda and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, before the controversial updates have discovered their copies have now been changed.

Puffin Books, the company which publishes Dahl novels, updated the electronic novels, in which Augustus Gloop is no longer described as fat or Mrs Twit as fearfully ugly, on devices such as the Amazon Kindle.

Dahl’s biographer Matthew Dennison last night accused the publisher of “strong-arming readers into accepting a new orthodoxy in which Dahl himself has played no part.”

The consumers no longer own what they paid for.

Second news item

Trump’s five-point attack on DeSantis:

DeSantis’ past support for changes to Social Security and Medicare, including votes as a U.S. congressman to raise the eligibility age for Medicare.

Disloyalty to Trump after he helped DeSantis get elected governor in 2018. Trump also plans to pound DeSantis on likability.

Trump wants to cast DeSantis as a lackey of former House Speaker Paul Ryan. On Trump’s social-media site, Truth Social, he attacked Ryan this week as a loser who “couldn’t get elected dogcatcher,” and said he should resign or be fired as a Fox Corp. board member.

DeSantis’ response to COVID is a top Trump target, even though the governor is known for resisting mask mandates. Trump plans to attack DeSantis’ caution in the earliest days of the pandemic — and try to fight the issue to a draw. A March 2020 headline in the Tampa Bay Times said: “DeSantis orders major shutdown of beaches, businesses in Broward, Palm Beach.” (DeSantis pushes back on this.)

DeSantis took heat for muddled comments, in a Fox News interview last week, about whether to maintain financial and military support for Ukraine. Trump plans to portray DeSantis as wishy-washy on the war, while he toes the MAGA line of cutting aid.

Related: Desantis sees Trump’s attacks as “background noise”.

Third news item

Unhappy campers:

House Democrats were infuriated and taken aback by President Biden’s announcement on Thursday that he will sign a resolution to nix the District of Columbia’s crime bill.

The crime bill has come under heavy criticism from Republicans and centrist Democrats. But last month, 173 House Democrats voted along with what they thought was the White House’s stance that Biden would veto the resolution in an attempt to stand up for the District’s “home rule.”

Instead, Biden made the revelation to Senate Democrats during lunch on Thursday and, in the process, angered their colleagues across the Capitol complex.

The crime bill passed the D.C. City Council unanimously in January. After Washington D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser (D) vetoed it, the city council overrode it 12-1. Among other things, the bill would eliminate most mandatory sentences and lower penalties for a number of violent offenses, including carjackings and robberies. It would also expand the requirement for jury trials in most misdemeanor cases.

Fourth news item

LAPD may not send armed response certain calls:

The Los Angeles Police Protective League released a list of 28 potential calls that could warrant an alternate response from unarmed officers or service providers, rather than the typical armed police response.

A sample of the types of calls included on the list: Under the influence calls (alcohol and/or drugs) where there is no other crime in progress; Non-Fatal Vehicle Accidents – 1181/1182/1183/1179;
• Non-DUI/Non-Criminal; Property damage only (including City property), Verbal disputes involving non-injury traffic collisions, refusing to share ID at traffic collisions; Landlord/Tenant Disputes; Loitering/Trespassing With No Indication Of Danger; Panhandling; Suspicious circs-possible dead body, where no indication of foul play…

Fifth news item

Time is of the essence, especially for Ukraine:

A crucial question in any war is ‘Whose side is time on?’ By 1942, for example, time was clearly on the side of the anti–Hitler allies. But in this war, time may be on the side of Vladimir Putin. There’s a strong suspicion that Putin thinks so too. If China were to send weapons, that would further strengthen his hand.

Hence the constant Ukrainian emphasis on speed and urgency. At the Munich Security Conference, the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz praised his own caution, saying ‘Sorgfalt vor Schnellschuss’ (roughly, care rather than overhasty action). A fine motto for peacetime, but in war, the slowness works for Putin. So we in the West must start matching Ukrainian speed. We need to get more ammunition and weapons faster to the places General Zaluzhny needs them, and increase financial support to sustain the faltering Ukrainian healthcare system, schools, housing and overall budget. The existing weapon and ammunition stocks of western armies are significantly depleted, so much did we lower our guard during what I call the post-Wall period (i.e. after the fall of the Berlin Wall on 9 November 1989), which ended on 24 February 2022. But in Munich, I heard representatives of the European defence industry say they could quickly ramp up production if political leaders would cut the red tape and national protectionism that still besets this sector.

Time is indeed of the essence, but Ukraine may be running out of it in Bakhmut:

Russian troops and mercenaries rained artillery on the last access routes to the besieged Ukrainian city of Bakhmut on Friday, bringing Moscow closer to its first major victory in half a year after the bloodiest fighting of the war.

The head of Russia’s Wagner private army, speaking in a video recorded some 7 km (4 miles) north of Bakhmut, said the city, which has been blasted to ruins, was now almost completely surrounded with only one road still open for Ukraine’s troops.

The commander of Ukraine’s ground forces, Oleksandr Syrskyi, visited Bakhmut on Friday for briefings with local commanders on how to boost the defence capacity of frontline forces.

“The enemy is not giving up its hope of capturing Bakhmut and continues to build up forces to occupy the city,” the press service said.

President Zelensky on Bahkmut:

Ukraine’s defence of Bakhmut is becoming “more and more difficult”, President Volodymyr Zelensky says. He warned Moscow generals were adopting a strategy of “exhaustion and total destruction” as they throw even more soldiers to their deaths.

“The enemy is constantly destroying everything that can be used to protect our positions”, he said.

President Zelensky also reiterated his plea for the West to send modern warplanes.

Sixth news item

Walgreens says no:

The nation’s second-largest pharmacy chain confirmed Thursday that it will not dispense abortion pills in several states where they remain legal — acting out of an abundance of caution amid a shifting policy landscape, threats from state officials and pressure from anti-abortion activists.

Nearly two dozen Republican state attorneys general wrote to Walgreens in February, threatening legal action if the company began distributing the drugs, which have become the nation’s most popular method for ending a pregnancy.

The group of Republican attorneys general, who argue that the Biden administration is misinterpreting the laws around mailing and dispensing abortion pills, also wrote to CVS, Albertsons, Rite Aid, Costco, Walmart and Kroger demanding they, too, refuse to dispense the medication.

The report notes that the six companies have not responded to inquiries about their plans.

Seventh news item

Unconstiutional and un-American indeed:

Senate Bill 1316 is the latest entrant in Florida lawmakers’ ongoing fight with the First Amendment. If enacted, the legislation would require anyone other than a newspaper journalist who writes online about Florida’s government leaders — its governor, lieutenant governor, cabinet officer, or any member of the state legislature — to register with the state if they receive any “compensation” for the post. And they must do so within five days — and then file a monthly report with state regulators if they write about Florida officials that month. Those who violate the law risk up to $2,500 in fines per report.

This bill is an affront to the First Amendment and our national commitment to freedom of the press.

It sure sounds like Floridian legislators want people to have to *pay* to say negative things about them.

Eighth news item

Put the cheeseburgers down:

More than half the world’s population will be classed as obese or overweight by 2035 if action is not taken, the World Obesity Federation warns.

More than four billion people will be affected, with rates rising fastest among children, its report says.

Low or middle-income countries in Africa and Asia are expected to see the greatest rises.

The report in particular highlights the rising rates of obesity among children and teenagers, with rates expected to double from 2020 levels among both boys and girls.

Ninth news item

In an effort to keep girls out of school they commit vile acts against them:

Concern is growing in Iran after reports emerged that hundreds of schoolgirls had been poisoned across the country in recent months.

On Wednesday, Iran’s semi-official Mehr News reported that Shahriar Heydari, a member of Parliament, cited an unnamed “reliable source” in saying that “nearly 900 students” from across the country had been poisoned so far.

The first reported poisonings happened in the city of Qom on November 30, when 18 schoolgirls from one high school were hospitalized, according to Iranian state media. In another incident in Qom on February 14, more than 100 students from 13 schools were taken to hospitals after what the state-affiliated Tasnim news agency described as “serial poisonings.”

There have also been reports of schoolgirls being poisoned in the capital Tehran – where 35 were hospitalized on Tuesday, according to Fars News. They were in “good” condition, and many of them were later released, Fars reported. State media have also reported student poisonings in recent months in the city of Borujerd and in Chaharmahal and Bakhtiari Province.

Tenth news item

Says the man who wants to just might become the next President of the United States:

Rupert Murdoch should apologize to his viewers and readers for his ridiculous defense of the 2020 Presidential Election. How many forms of cheating and rigging does he have to see? He should also apologize to those anchors who got it right, and fire the ones who got it wrong, or were afraid to speak up (of which there were many!). It’s time to get rid of Fake News, and call it like it is!

MISCELLANEOUS

Art news:

A painting by Wassily Kandinsky that spent decades in a Dutch museum after its Jewish owner was murdered in the Holocaust has sold at auction for £37.2 million ($44.9 million)…set[ting] a record price for the Russian artist in a sale at Sotheby’s in London…The Van Abbemuseum in Eindhoven returned the painting last year to the descendants of German Jewish art collectors Johanna Margarethe Stern and Siegbert Samuel Stern. Siegbert died in 1935 and Johanna fled Nazi Germany for Amsterdam, where she was forced to sell much of her collection. She was arrested after the Nazis occupied the Netherlands and died in the Auschwitz concentration camp in 1944…Sotheby’s said proceeds from the sale will be shared between 13 surviving Stern heirs and will also fund further research into the fate of the family’s collection.

Have a good weekend!

–Dana

558 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. The consumers no longer own what they paid for.

    no, they paid for an ebook and that’s exactly what they got.

    there’s a price to having stacks and stacks of paper books, especially when I move, but I have an old copy of Dahl’s Willy Wonka book, I own it, and it’s still as it was

    and it’s the copy my kids read

    I will never get an ebook

    JF (4c6095)

  3. Ronald Dahl: Not a particular fan, but this is why I sideload my ebooks.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  4. DeSantis’ past support for changes to Social Security and Medicare, including votes as a U.S. congressman to raise the eligibility age for Medicare.

    These eligibility ages need to be addressed. Ignoring that just makes the job harder when it can no longer be ignored. Raising the “full retirement age” to 68 over a reasonable period is necessary, and the Medicare age should rise, too.

    A higher-cost Medicare premium for those under the full retirement age also makes sense, as medical insurance for people in their 60s is VERY expensive. The current disability system is often gamed to get around this.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  5. Among other things, the bill would eliminate most mandatory sentences and lower penalties for a number of violent offenses, including carjackings and robberies

    OTOH, it also adds a number of new sentence enhancements, so the result seems unclear.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  6. Kevin M-

    I responded to our colloquy on campaign contributions here.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  7. Low or middle-income countries in Africa and Asia are expected to see the greatest rises.

    Wait. I thought that feeding the world was a good thing. Sally Struthers hardest hit.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  8. Trump calling out Fox News for lying? It’s the end times.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  9. Seventh news item:

    As I pointed out on a previous thread, it is part of a larger DeSantis plan to restrict the First Amendment in Florida. Fortunately, most of these proposals are clearly unconstitutional. Like Trump, he wants to make it easier for public figures to sue media companies for libel, with the goal of overturning New York Times v. Sullivan.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  10. https://twitter.com/CryptidPolitics/status/1631655197729787910?

    “I’m not content to just keep taxes low and stay out of anything else. I mean I believe woke ideology is pernicious…my polices are helping to protect people from having the woke ideology shoved down their throats in institution after institution.”

    “Some of these Republicans, they just sit back like potted plants, and they let the media define the terms of the debate. They let the Left define the terms of the debate. They take all this incoming because they’re not making anything happen.”

    NJRob (eaeea3)

  11. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/3/2023 @ 10:36 am

    Of course DeSantis doesn’t care about constitutionality of these proposals, he wants to show he is “doing something.” It’s performance art, like his STOP WOKE act.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. The Ruscists may well take Bakhmut in the next week or so, but it’ll be rubble more than a town, like Mariupol, and all for a highway crossroads and the sake of Prigozhin’s ego.

    Paul Montagu (1888f5)

  13. You made a savvy point on the CPAC thread regarding DeSantis…

    The Schlapp issue and his book tour aside, [Clearly, DeSantis isn’t skipping the popular confab for um, scheduling conflicts. I think it’s more than that. Schedules can be rearranged. I also don’t think it’s because of an unfavorable poll. So, what does he have to lose by attending? Well, it could be that he doesn’t want to risk losing a popularity contest with Trump before he has announced his candidacy. Let’s face it, the optics of DeSantis not besting Trump in the traditional CPAC straw poll certainly wouldn’t help his cause]

    OTOH, if DeSantis fears being bested by The Donald in a mere poll, it may bring into question his capacity to stand up to China’s Xi, Russia’s Vlad; NorKo, Iran, etc., etc. So far, we’ve seen him challenge… Mickey Mouse. His current ‘wishy-washy’ position on Ukraine isn’t particularly decisive or strong minded, either. But that could change, as it did from his POV in 2014.

    _________

    “I’ve warned my publishers that if they later on so much as change a single comma in one of my books, they will never see another word from me. Never! Ever!” he [Dahl] said.

    He’s right. We must shun modern publishers and even chastise broadcasters ‘editing’ works from times past to suit the stylishness of changing times or for mere commercial purposes. At best, a ‘publisher’s note’ in the prefaces could suffice to note the context of the times when these works were written w/other reference sources offered to support that context.

    We already see a form of this kind of manipulative ‘censorship’ in films and television programs from decades past where words, terms or whole scenes, now deemed offensive are ‘bleeped’ from audio tracks or carefully edited. ‘GWTW’ is often mentioned as a target. Would you edit or rework Margaret Mitchell’s classic novel? And it is to TCM’s credit that when they run the film, ‘GWTW’ in current times, they do not edit it but present it w/an introduction for current context.

    It’s as objectional as ‘pan-and-scan,’ and particularly ‘colorization’ was to vintage and b/w films, which changes the intent and context [lighting elements, for example] from what a director intended. Experienced that first hand in the 80’s when, at CBS, an early, colorized version of ‘Yankee Doodle Dandy’ was marketed and the backlash was strong. Editing and/or modifying original works from how they were originally created is not only a slippery slope– it’s just wrong.

    DCSCA (b417b2)

  14. @9

    Seventh news item:

    As I pointed out on a previous thread, it is part of a larger DeSantis plan to restrict the First Amendment in Florida. Fortunately, most of these proposals are clearly unconstitutional. Like Trump, he wants to make it easier for public figures to sue media companies for libel, with the goal of overturning New York Times v. Sullivan.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/3/2023 @ 10:36 am

    Do you have any more info that this bill is a “DeSantis” driven initiative besides the info that it’s a Florida legislature submitting the proposal?

    As for New York Times v. Sullivan, I struggle with that ruling.

    On one hand, free speech is exactly that. Free. But, where do you draw the line when it’s malicious? Should we have a society where it’s harder for public figures to sue for defamation based on malicious intent? I dunno. I see arguments for/against it. But, hypothetically, would the toxicity of public discourse be turned down if New York Times v. Sullivan was overturned, placing public figures on same footing as private figures for defamation?

    whembly (d116f3)

  15. I really hope Fox News apologizes

    it would set an example the MSM would be sure to follow, like apologizing for covid origins BS, hunter laptop news blackout, hands up don’t shoot, Carter Page and the Steele Dossier, Russian bounties, etc.

    JF (f4c62d)

  16. @14 I think our political discourse is better when I can describe the 2020 election as the choice between a treasonous narcissist that cares nothing about America and a mildly corrupt oatmeal brained creep without fear of being sued.

    Time123 (004538)

  17. @16: Being able to show that you are not spewing falsehoods recklessly should be sufficient.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  18. @17

    Being able to show that you are not spewing falsehoods recklessly should be sufficient.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/3/2023 @ 11:32 am

    I agree, but that’s not the current bar for public figures.

    whembly (d116f3)

  19. @16

    @14 I think our political discourse is better when I can describe the 2020 election as the choice between a treasonous narcissist that cares nothing about America and a mildly corrupt oatmeal brained creep without fear of being sued.

    Time123 (004538) — 3/3/2023 @ 11:21 am

    But, that’s not an intention lie designed to undermine both political figures. It’s an opinion and you’re not spouting outright falsehoods.

    I’m talking about things like “Paul Ryan wants to throw grandma off the cliff” sorts of falsehoods. Or, 60 minutes “fake but accurate” Bush memo ordeal. Those are outright lies, and proven that those spouting it knew it was a lie.

    whembly (d116f3)

  20. I agree, but that’s not the current bar for public figures.

    Indeed. I would think that someone who is spewing falsehoods recklessly should have to prove they are not being malicious.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  21. Belarus Sentences Nobel Peace Laureate to 10 Years in Prison

    A Belarusian court sentenced Ales Bialiatski, who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in October for his decades of defending human rights in Belarus, to 10 years in prison on Friday, according to Viasna, the group that he helped found.

    Mr. Bialiatski, 60, has been a pillar of the human rights movement in Eastern Europe since the late 1980s, when Belarus was part of the Soviet Union. Most members of Viasna are now in prison or living in exile from the country’s authoritarian government, which is one of Russia’s closest allies and a key supporter of its war in Ukraine….

    [T]he charges against him were “financing of group actions grossly violating the public order” and “smuggling by an organized group.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  22. @Rip Murdock that bill:
    https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1316/BillText/Filed/PDF

    …looks like it’s this one weirdo’s dream, not something advocated by the whole FL GOP, nor have I seen anything from DeSantis.

    whembly (d116f3)

  23. @15. … it would set an example the MSM would be sure to follow

    It’s been done before…

    NBC Admits It Rigged Crash, Settles GM Suit

    In an extraordinary public apology, NBC said Tuesday night that it erred in staging a fiery test crash of a General Motors pickup truck for its “Dateline NBC” news program and agreed to settle a defamation suit filed by the auto maker.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-02-10-mn-1335-story.html

    CBS Apologizes for Report on Bush Guard Service

    https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/21/politics/campaign/cbs-apologizes-for-report-on-bush-guard-service.html

    Facts and context in the “60 Minutes” decision not to air a tobacco industry exposé

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/smoke/cron.html

    DCSCA (00a640)

  24. Whembly,

    Here’s a summary of Sullivan In a unanimous opinion authored by Justice Brennan, the Court ruled for the Times. When a statement concerns a public figure, the Court held, it is not enough to show that it is false for the press to be liable for libel. Instead, the target of the statement must show that it was made with knowledge of or reckless disregard for its falsity.

    An intentional lie would still be grounds for a decision, as would reckless disregard for the truth.

    My statements were clearly hyperbole. But my point remains that i think political discourse is better when it’s easier to criticize then when it’s easier to sue speakers. For the most part the people speaking are the little ppl and the ppl being discussed are the powerful.

    Since this makes lies and reckless disregard for the truth actionable I don’t see what needs improvement?

    Ppl can’t spew lies intentionally and they can’t disregard the truth with opening themselves up to legal liability.

    Time123 (233b5e)

  25. @22 Good rule of Thumb is not to over react to a dumb state law that isn’t very close to passing.

    Time123 (233b5e)

  26. The consumers no longer own what they paid for.

    no, they paid for an ebook and that’s exactly what they got.

    They paid for a specific version of an ebook. They no longer have that specific book that they purchased.

    You purchased a red sweater but unbeknownst to you, the clerk switched out your red sweater for a blue sweater when she bagged it – same style but a different color – do you still have the sweater you purchased? You paid for a sweater and that’s what you got.

    Dana (1225fc)

  27. > This bill is an affront to the First Amendment and our national commitment to freedom of the press.

    Of course it is. The central motivating force for the modern Republican party is the desire to use the power of the state to punish the party’s cultural opponents. It’s what the base wants more than they want anything else, and the best way to get re-elected is to give the base what it wants — and appoint judges who will ignore the constitution in order to support it.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  28. @Rip Murdock that bill:
    https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1316/BillText/Filed/PDF

    …looks like it’s this one weirdo’s dream, not something advocated by the whole FL GOP, nor have I seen anything from DeSantis.

    whembly (d116f3) — 3/3/2023 @ 11:59 am

    We’ll see.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  29. > But, hypothetically, would the toxicity of public discourse be turned down if New York Times v. Sullivan was overturned, placing public figures on same footing as private figures for defamation?

    Maybe, but at the same time it would be abused to prevent any public criticism of public figures, including ones in government office.

    The cure here would be far worse than the disease it was tyring to cure.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  30. They paid for a specific version of an ebook. They no longer have that specific book that they purchased.

    So, in 1961 Robert Heinlein published a book called Stranger in a Strange Land. It was a NY Times bestseller and won the Hugo (best SF book of the year). It was quite good.

    After Heinlein’s death, his widow arranged for the original manuscript of Stranger to be published as the “uncut” edition.

    It seems that the original publisher had required Heinlein to cut the book considerably, both for length and content reasons. Heinlein obliged, cutting about a third of the book while adding/fixing other items. When asked later, he thought the editing improved the book.

    In any event, the uncut edition was published in the 1990s and today that is the only version you can buy. It is nowhere near as good as the award-winning version, with long libertarian tirades that seriously detract.

    But that “uncut” [read:unedited] version is the only one now available. I would be rather upset if my ebook version of the 1961 release got overwritten by some Taliban at Putnam’s.

    Moral: Get Calibre, and a utility that strips DRM and keep your own copies.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  31. I posted about floriduhs don’t say desatan bill. This guy is a pedo (see photo on truth social) opportunist pretending to be a fascist nazi for political gain. A new nixon.

    asset (6f3c6c)

  32. looks like it’s this one weirdo’s dream, not something advocated by the whole FL GOP, nor have I seen anything from DeSantis.

    whembly (d116f3) — 3/3/2023 @ 11:59 am

    The “Blogging Bill” does more than target bloggers, and it seems the governor’s office is not unaware of the bill.

    Sponsored by Rep. Alex Andrade, R-Pensacola, that proposal, House Bill 991, would lower the bar on who’s considered a public figure under defamation law – and lower the bar on what’s considered defamation.

    Andrade touts the legislation as a way for people to get justice for harms – not just from journalists but anyone making defamatory statements, like over social media. It’s justice that he says is currently “almost completely being denied.”
    ……….
    Before the last legislative session DeSantis’ office crafted a draft bill with the goal of overturning the landmark First Amendment court decision, according to documents obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

    And, last Monday, Andrade filed a bill similar to the governors’.

    It explicitly stated that the U.S. Supreme Court should reassess the New York Times v. Sullivan decision and “return to the states the authority to protect their residents from defamatory falsehoods and the ability to make their own policy judgments regarding the prevention of defamation.”

    Andrade pulled that bill the next day and introduced HB 991, which nixed the direct Sullivan references but took an even higher-caliber shot at defamation law.
    ……….
    “Since this legislation is still subject to the legislative process (and therefore different iterations), the governor will make a decision on the merits of the bill in final form if and when it passes and is delivered to the governor’s office,” Bryan Griffin, a spokesman for DeSantis, said in an email.

    The bill doesn’t only lower the bar on what constitutes a public figure and defamation. It also says that statements by an anonymous source are assumed false in a defamation case.
    ……….
    HB 991 would additionally change the law so that someone who sues a journalist and wins would get their legal costs covered. Meanwhile, if that person loses, the journalist would have to cover their own legal expenses.
    ………
    One portion of the bill in particular has generated a lot of attention and outcry over social media: It would make it so that allegations that someone “discriminated against another person or group because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity constitutes defamation per se.”

    The bill adds that people sued for discrimination allegations cannot justify them by citing a plaintiff’s “constitutionally protected religious expression or beliefs” or their scientific beliefs.
    ………..

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  33. one of the interesting side effects of being a beta reader is that i’m now very used to keeping multiple different electronic copies of different versions of books from different stages in their production process.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  34. @27

    > This bill is an affront to the First Amendment and our national commitment to freedom of the press.

    Of course it is. The central motivating force for the modern Republican party is the desire to use the power of the state to punish the party’s cultural opponents. It’s what the base wants more than they want anything else, and the best way to get re-elected is to give the base what it wants — and appoint judges who will ignore the constitution in order to support it.

    aphrael (4c4719) — 3/3/2023 @ 12:40 pm

    That’s some creative hyperbole.

    whembly (849622)

  35. > It would make it so that allegations that someone “discriminated against another person or group because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity constitutes defamation per se.”

    So even if someone openly says that they would never hire a f****t, buys the company i work for, and then fires me, i couldn’t publically claim it was related to my sexual orientation.

    Some people just aren’t entitled to express their experience, let alone seek redress of their grievances. That entitlement is reserved for people the cultural right approves of.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  36. whembly — not hyperbole at all. i’ve spent a huge amount of time in the last six years talking to trumpists, and this is their unifying force: stick it to the libtards, using every tool available. the primary reason they love trump is before 2017 he was the only politician who would openly *do* that, and they’ll forgive him anything because of it.

    and it’s evident in the bills that many republican dominated legislatures are considering now, and the policies many republican governors are advocating. hell, desantis is implying that the replacement of the reedy creek district will use its power over disney’s land use to force disney to change its programming to meet the government’s liking.

    *you* may not be motivated by this. but the base of the modern republican party is.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  37. To clarify, there are two different bills being discussed:

    HB 991-on libel and defamation, sponsored by Rep. Alex Andrade and which I linked to in post 32.

    SB 1316-the blogger licensing bill, which is sponsored by Sen. Jason Brodeur, and linked by whembly in post 22. Not sure why you called him a “weirdo,” National Review only called him a “moron.” Brodeur has also sponsored a companion bill (SB 1220) to HB 991.

    The DeSantis administration is aware of SB 1316:

    DeSantis’s office said Friday it was reviewing the bill. “As usual, the governor will consider the merits of a bill in final form if and when it passes the legislature,” said his press secretary, Bryan Griffin.

    All of the above bills not only violate the US Constitution but also Florida’s (Every person may speak, write and publish sentiments on all subjects but shall be responsible for the abuse of that right. No law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press. …..)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  38. All of the above bills not only violate the US Constitution but also Florida’s (Every person may speak, write and publish sentiments on all subjects but shall be responsible for the abuse of that right. No law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press. …..)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/3/2023 @ 1:35 pm

    But that won’t prevent them from being passed or enacted, in order to “own the libs.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  39. Grover Cleveland may have engaged in a massive cover-up and the story was maybe not what we have been led to believe

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/president-clevelands-problem-child-100800

    For on July 21, 1884, the Buffalo Evening Telegraph broke a story many in upstate New York had long known to be true—that 10 years earlier, a woman named Maria Halpin had given birth in that city to a son with the surname Cleveland and then been taken to a mental asylum while the child was adopted by another family.

    Cleveland’s campaign, knowing there was no refuting the allegations, was almost blasé in admitting that yes, Cleveland and Halpin had been “illicitly acquainted.” At the time, the campaign provided this rationale: Cleveland was a bachelor, and Halpin had been rather free with her affections, including with some of Cleveland’s friends—prominent Buffalo businessmen all. As the only unmarried man of the bunch, Cleveland, though not certain the child was his, claimed paternity and helped Halpin name the boy and place him with a caring family.

    That’s the cover story.

    The truth may have been:

    ….it was only a matter of time before reporters discovered Halpin’s whereabouts. Her tale differed from Cleveland’s, substantially.

    In an October 31, 1884, interview with the Chicago Tribune, she proclaimed, “The circumstances under which my ruin was accomplished are too revolting on the part of Grover Cleveland to be made public.”

    …..Halpin was a 38-year-old widow in 1874, according to the Tribune, which also reported:

    Halpin said that Cleveland had pursued her relentlessly, and that she finally consented to join him for a meal at the Ocean Dining Hall & Oyster House. After dinner, Cleveland escorted her back to her boarding house. In an 1874 affidavit, Halpin strongly implied that Cleveland’s entry into her room and the incident that transpired there was not consensual—he was forceful and violent, she alleged, and later promised to ruin her if she went to the authorities.

    Halpin said she told Cleveland she never wanted to see him again, but “five or six weeks later” was forced to seek him out because she was in the kind of trouble only Cleveland could help her with.

    The trouble, of course, was pregnancy.

    Nine months later, Halpin’s son was born and promptly removed from her custody. Halpin was admitted under murky circumstances to a local asylum for the insane. Doctors from that institution, when interviewed by the press during the 1884 campaign, corroborated Halpin’s insistence that she was not, in fact, in need of committing.

    She was in the asylum a few days.

    Upon her release, Halpin’s first order of business was to locate her son, who had been “spirited away” after she was taken to the asylum.

    She contacted a lawyer and then Cleveland settled with her for $500.

    The son was adopted by the father of the woman Cleveland later married.

    Oscar Folsom Cleveland faded from public record and seems to have come of age in privacy; some people believe he changed his name and became James E. King Jr., a Buffalo gynecologist who died childless in 1947.

    Maria Halpin remarried and lived in relative obscurity until her death in 1902, and she seemed to take solace in her privacy to the last. According to her obituary, her last wish was that her funeral should not be public, “for she dreaded having strangers look curiously upon her dead face.”

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  40. Something was more important than a possible rape (which was not what most peole are aware of)

    In the end, Cleveland’s personal life proved more palatable to voters than Blaine’s political indiscretions: The Democrat won the election, carried by a New York state victory with a margin of barely 2,000 votes. The chant of “Ma, ma, where’s my Pa?” was answered by Democrats: “Gone to the White House, ha ha ha!”

    You notice in this “Ma, ma, where’s my Pa? you don’t have the forcible adoption/baby sealing.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  41. Former U.S. Army Soldier Sentenced to 45 Years in Prison for Attempting for Murder Fellow Service Members in Deadly Ambush

    Ethan Phelan Melzer, aka Etil Reggad, 24, of Louisville, pleaded guilty to attempting to murder U.S. service members, providing and attempting to provide material support to terrorists, and illegally transmitting national defense information on June 24, 2022, before U.S. District Judge Gregory H. Woods, who imposed today’s sentence. …….
    ……..
    According to court documents, Melzer is a member of O9A. O9A espouses neo-Nazi, antisemitic and Satanic beliefs and promotes extreme violence to accelerate and cause the demise of Western civilization. The group has expressed admiration both for Nazis, such as Adolf Hitler, and Islamic jihadists, such as Usama Bin Laden, the now-deceased former leader of al Qaeda. Members and associates of O9A have also participated in acts of violence, including murders. O9A members are instructed to fulfill “sinister” deeds, including “insight roles,” where they attempt to infiltrate various organizations, including the military, to gain training and experience, commit acts of violence, identify like-minded individuals, and ultimately subvert those groups from within.
    ………..
    Upon learning the importance and sensitivity of his upcoming deployment, Melzer immediately began passing that information to members of O9A. Melzer secretly used an encrypted messaging application to propose, advocate for, and plan a deadly attack on his fellow service members. Melzer sent messages to members and associates of O9A and, in particular, a sub-group of O9A known as the “RapeWaffen Division,” providing details about his unit’s anticipated deployment including troop movements, relevant dates, locations, armaments, topography, and security, all in connection with the proposed attack on his unit and the Military Base. Melzer and his co-conspirators used this information to plan what they referred to as a “jihadi attack” with the objective of causing a “mass casualty” event victimizing his fellow service members. For example, after describing the unit’s weaponry during the deployment — and providing information consistent with the briefings he had received — Melzer described to his co-conspirators how an attack would “essentially cripple” the unit’s “fire-teams.”

    To further the attack plan, Melzer and his co-conspirators passed these messages to a purported member of al Qaeda. Melzer’s proposed attack evolved as he gathered and distributed additional sensitive information about the deployment. For example, Melzer also promised to leak more information once he arrived at the Military Base — including real-time photographs of the facility and the frequency and channel of U.S. Army radio communications — in order to maximize the likelihood of a successful attack on his unit or on a replacement unit deployed to the Military Base.

    Melzer told members of O9A in his encrypted electronic communications “[y]ou just gotta understand that currently I am risking my literal free life to give you all this” and that he was “expecting results.” Melzer further acknowledged that he could be killed during the attack and described his willingness to die for O9A’s goals, writing “who gives a f*ck [. . .] it would be another war . . . I would’ve died successfully . . . cause another 10 year war in the Middle East would definitely leave a mark.” Melzer also acknowledged in his messages that he deleted some of the communications regarding the planning of the attack because the plot amounted to treason.
    ……….

    Grand jury indictment.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  42. Bakhmut is worthless, and Ukraine has nothing to gain by continuing fighting there. Russia is losing more than Ukraine but Ukraine is losing too many people.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  43. Poisoned with what? Are the girls selected for poisoning because they oppose hijab regulations?

    Sammy FInkelman (02a146)

  44. Fifty Years ago March 1st.

    Free link.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  45. aphrael (4c4719) — 3/3/2023 @ 1:13 pm

    , i couldn’t publically claim it was related to my sexual orientation.

    No, you could. It would be defamation, and may be already without a change to the law, but defamation has the defense of truth.

    https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1604/substantial-truth-doctrine

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

    Defamation is a false statement of fact that harms another’s reputation….

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  46. 54 years ago today, March 3, 1969… when America truly was great:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGJ_N9SfiXI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG6lWYAFeCQ

    DCSCA (cf65d9)

  47. This story cheered me up.Kayzen Hunter, 8, has a favorite waiter, Devonte Gardner, who was going through some tough times.

    He and his grandfather learned that day that Gardner had been walking several miles a day to and from work and was living in a motel room with his wife and two daughters. About eight months earlier, they had to move out of an apartment that was infested with rats and contaminated with black mold, Gardner said.

    So Kayzen, with a little help from his father and mother, set up a GoFundMe site for the Gardner family.

    And raised enough money for them so they can afford to move into a small apartment, and buy a used car.

    That little boy deserves to go far.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  48. Zombie Jeffrey Dahmer would have to be the Democratic candidate for Florida Governor to be elected nationwide. But I would not mind seeing him and Trump clawing and biting each other in the Republican primaries.

    nk (bb1548)

  49. Of course it is. The central motivating force for the modern Republican party is the desire to use the power of the state to punish the party’s cultural opponents

    As opposed to the modern Democrat Party which wants to use the power of the state to force recalcitrant knuckle-dragging right-wingers to accept and obey new cultural mores if they want to step outside their house.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  50. As for Roald Dahl’s original Kindle books being automatically replaced with the bowdlerized books, it should not be at all surprising to anyone familiar with Amazon’s predatory business, especially when it comes to books. They obviously want people to buy the unbowdlerized Penguin books again, on top of the Puffin book they now own. And Penguin/Puffin, one and the same, ain’t gonna be crying on their way to the bank, either.

    nk (bb1548)

  51. Amazon’s predatory business *practices* I meant to say.

    nk (bb1548)

  52. nk, am curious to know your thought on this re the ebooks having been automatically updated with the new version:

    The consumers no longer own what they paid for.

    no, they paid for an ebook and that’s exactly what they got.

    Dana (1225fc)

  53. If your only repository of ebooks is on an Amazon device (or Amazon-accessible disk storage) then you’ve decided that whatever they do is OK. It’s much the same response I give to people who don’t make backups.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  54. It’s nonsense, Dana. Protagoras, credited by Plato for inventing the professional sophist, would have sneered at it.

    I would classify it as the utterance of the professional contrarian.

    As others have pointed out, what Amazon did is very similar to a bait-and-switch fraud.

    nk (bb1548)

  55. And whether the emptor should caveat with Amazon is besides the point, Kevin.

    nk (bb1548)

  56. Suppose a book publisher fixes eleven typos in a book. Should they upload the new version to everyone?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  57. @55: Trust, but back up.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  58. One of these days we’re going to catch them updating the Constitution like that.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  59. Thanks, nk. I agree.

    Simply put, the item is no longer the original and specific item that the consumer purchased.

    Dana (1225fc)

  60. One of these days we’re going to catch them updating the Constitution like that.

    Most certainly.

    Dana (1225fc)

  61. All of the books I buy are hard copies, mostly because they are out of print and too old to have an e-book version.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. Like most computer software, you are buying a license, not a owning the e-book.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  63. Is Trump Still Invited?

    Nick Fuentes, the antisemitic white nationalist provocateur who dined with former President Donald Trump last year, was “removed” from the premises of the Conservative Political Action Conference in Maryland, the chair of the group that stages the event said Friday.

    “We removed Nick Fuentes from his attempt to attend our conference. His hateful racist rhetoric and actions are not consistent with the mission of CPAC,” Matt Schlapp said in a statement posted on Instagram.
    ……….
    Fuentes responded to the statement in a post on the social media site Telegram, where he appeared to mock Schlapp’s legal troubles, saying, “Ah yes we all know CPAC is reserved for sexual gropers.”
    ……….
    Fuentes said in another post Thursday night that he’d just gotten himself “kicked out of CPAC.” In another post around that time, he wrote, “Most cancelled man in America.”
    ………
    Trump has since said he didn’t know Fuentes or his background when they dined together.
    ###########

    Uh-huh. Trump must have been the only one around who didn’t know about Nick Fuentes.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  64. Haley makes pitch to Trump-friendly CPAC: Vote for me ‘if you’re tired of losing’
    ……..
    Speaking to a half-full ballroom at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), Haley rattled off a list of talking points that have so far defined her nascent presidential bid. She railed against out-of-control federal spending, accused the Biden administration of staking out a weak posture toward China and reiterated her call to subject politicians over the age of 75 to a “mental competency test.”
    ……..
    But the reception to Haley appeared mixed. Her call to require competency tests for politicians over the age of 75 was met with only sparse applause, while her pledge to support term limits for members of Congress received a more enthusiastic response from the crowd.

    After exiting the stage, videos posted online showed Haley facing a crowd of conference attendees loudly chanting “Trump.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  65. US announces new $400 million Ukraine security aid package
    ……….
    The State Department said the latest package includes munitions for the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) and howitzer artillery guns, as well as ammunition for the Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles the U.S. first announced for Ukraine in January.
    ……….
    The package also includes armored vehicle-launched bridges, which accompany armored columns and allow vehicles to cross rivers, streams, ditches and trenches, according to the Defense Department. The bridges are carried on the chassis of armored vehicles before they are launched at river or stream banks. They can also be quickly folded up on the other side of the crossing.

    “Russia alone could end its war today,” the State Department said in a release. “Until Russia does so, for as long as it takes, we will stand united with Ukraine and strengthen its military on the battlefield so that Ukraine will be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  66. I’m going to respond to whembly’s lengthy comment on the other thread here on this open thread.

    whembly,

    I agree with your comment about grass-roots efforts to support better candidates in the primary.

    And, I agree that Trump had many good policies. However, he had one policy that superseded all of them, and that is his policy of denying election results. That is more harmful than his good policies were beneficial.

    Why? Because voters can vote out anybody whose policies they dislike at the next election, but NOT if the person holding office refuses to recognize the result of that election.

    Causing people to doubt the vote, and stoking anger among your rabid base, blows a gaping hole in the foundation of our republic. It will result in a different kind of government–a banana republic.

    norcal (7345e5)

  67. Sad!:

    Russian tax revenue from crude oil and petroleum products plummeted by 48% in February from a year earlier due to the much lower price of Russia’s flagship crude grade after the EU banned imports of Russian oil, according to Bloomberg estimates based on official Russian data.

    Total tax revenues from oil and natural gas dipped by 46% year over year to $6.9 billion (521 billion Russian rubles) in February, per data from the Russian Finance Ministry published on Friday.

    Russia’s revenues from crude oil and oil products alone crumbled by 48% annually to $4.8 billion (361 billion rubles), according to Bloomberg’s calculations. Oil accounted for more than two-thirds of Russia’s energy tax revenue in February.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  68. #66 norcal – I agree, and I would add this point: The most important gain for social conservatives while Trump was president was the change in the Supreme Court. That would have happened, if almost any of the serious Republican candidates had been elected, instead of the loser.

    And it was made possible by Mitch Daniels who held a seat open, for which he should receive credit, if you agree with that change.

    (For the record: I agreed with what Daniels did, though I am uncomfortable with how it happened. But we badly needed to get back to a “less inventive” reading of the Constitution.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  69. Jim,

    I think you mean McConnell.

    norcal (7345e5)

  70. norcal – Right you are. I was just about to make that correction. Thanks for doing it for me.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  71. @68

    I believe I made a similar point about any other Republican (with the possible exception of Kasich) nominating similar Justices when discussing Trump with my friend the Tuckyo True Believer, with the response that he didn’t think other Republicans would have done so.

    In the great words of Patterico, his mind has been turned into rancid mush by rank partisan bullsh!t.

    norcal (7345e5)

  72. Also, Jim, a discussion with aphrael a couple of years ago resulted in me becoming very uncomfortable with how McConnell went about it, so I share your discomfort.

    I credit aphrael for reducing my tribalism.

    I have learned so much from this blog.

    norcal (7345e5)

  73. All of the books I buy are hard copies, mostly because they are out of print and too old to have an e-book version.

    There is a cottage industry in making ebooks of old OOP books. Scan, OCR, correct, ebook.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  74. After exiting the stage, videos posted online showed Haley facing a crowd of conference attendees loudly chanting “Trump.”

    She went there knowing that. Too bad DeSantis couldn’t grow a pair.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  75. The MSM stories are all about the heckling. It’s part of the DNC campaign to run against Trump.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  76. The package also includes armored vehicle-launched bridges

    These will be really handy.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  77. Nothing that you buy in electronic form is yours if it has DRM or is on a proprietary platform. You don’t really own your Amazon ebooks or your Steam games or your Apple music, you only have a license to use what the company provides for you.

    Nic (896fdf)

  78. RIP Tom Sizemore (61).

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  79. Geez, I had no idea that even Steve Bannon was speaking at CPAC.

    Dana (1225fc)

  80. The MSM stories are all about the heckling. It’s part of the DNC campaign to run against Trump.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/3/2023 @ 6:03 pm

    Since her speech didn’t break any new policy ground (like, say attacking election denialism) the heckling was probably the highlight.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  81. There is a cottage industry in making ebooks of old OOP books. Scan, OCR, correct, ebook.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/3/2023 @ 6:00 pm

    Not interested in digital books; I have over 3,000 real books catalogued online. Someday I might let you see them.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  82. I always struggle to understand where exactly religion figures in to the MAGA movement. Sure, there are those like Pastor Jeffress that gave Trump early cover and remain devotedly in his corner, but does Christianity really just intersect politics at transsexual athletes, illegal immigrants, drag shows, Critical Race Theory, concealed carry, and dopey wokeism?

    David French at least tries to anchor his writing to his religious philosophy. That’s why I believe he focuses so tenaciously on healing the political divide or at least listening to the other side and turning down the rhetorical volume. When I read French I hear Christian charity. I hear someone trying to appeal to our better selves. I hear someone who will stand up for his values yet understands that this is a contest of persuasion, not an unhinged screaming match.

    They will know us by our love. It’s certainly a challenge to love your enemy. Chuck Schumer is not lovable. It’s hard to love liberal busy bodies who want to dictate the type of car you drive, what words you read, how much red meat you consume, the capacity of your rifle magazine, and what pronouns you use. But the challenge to love your enemy is remarkable. It’s not a command to roll over supine, like a golden retriever looking for a belly rub, but to approach people with good will and optimism.

    I don’t see that from MAGA’s most prominent ambassadors. Now some will argue that the truth might hurt and we can’t sugarcoat evil, but where then does charity figure in? We’re degenerating to both sides trying to impose their cultural preferences by any means possible. That strikes me as remarkably unchristian. We’re drawing our Smith & Wesson before the first cheek is even struck. Ezekial 25:17 has subsumed John 15:12, with a few FU’s thrown in for good measure. Are our values linked to something timeless or are we being driven by our less better selves? Who will Trump, Lake, MTG, and Boebert appeal to?

    AJ_Liberty (83c19c)

  83. Nothing that you buy in electronic form is yours if it has DRM or is on a proprietary platform

    https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/calibre-plugins-the-simplest-option-for-removing-most-ebook-drm/

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  84. Not interested in digital books; I have over 3,000 real books catalogued online. Someday I might let you see them.

    The wife and I had almost 10,000 books before we moved from L.A. We unloaded most of them. Do you have any idea what it takes to move 10,000 books 800 miles?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  85. @84 “I don’t care if it rains or freezes I’m going to buy a plastic jesus!”

    asset (30f78d)

  86. How many here think it will be cheeper to defend the baltic states, poland and romania if we let russia take over the ukriane and with belerus be on nato’s border. Are do you plan not to support nato either? Instead of the billions to support ukraine we will spend trillions to defend against the russia china axis as we have before ukraine started destroying the russian military and giving chine pause in going against the west.

    asset (30f78d)

  87. Asset,

    Most of us here understand that Ukraine is where we hold.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  88. @Kevin@86 A lot of boxes and some burly movers?

    (I say this as someone who has 3 6ft bookshelves doubled rowed with fiction paperbacks and 3 6ft bookshelves of non-fic trade paper/hardbacks. I have not actually counted the number of books)

    Nic (896fdf)

  89. @89 I know most understand we are fighting (destroying) russia on the cheap. I am making the case to those who don’t understand that america will spend many times more money on defense if russia takes over the ukriane, if their argument is our money is better spent on defense elsewhere. I am a anti-war warrior not a pacifist. My interest is the military which makes me able to debate war mongers who never met a war they didn’t like and cut thru their self serving BS. I know when is the right time to support military action and when not too! Like when the side we are supporting wont fight and wants are troops to do their fighting for them. Vietnam iraq afganistan to name just 3. Hey we did kick ass on grenada!

    asset (30f78d)

  90. @Kevin@86 A lot of boxes and some burly movers?

    (I say this as someone who has 3 6ft bookshelves doubled rowed with fiction paperbacks and 3 6ft bookshelves of non-fic trade paper/hardbacks. I have not actually counted the number of books)

    Nic (896fdf) — 3/4/2023 @ 12:38 am

    I try to buy hardbacks when I can, so I can imagine. I’m slowly moving my books into storage so I can build some custom shelves.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  91. “Vietnam iraq afganistan to name just 3. Hey we did kick ass on grenada!”

    With better planning, Iraq could have been less of a cluster. A lot of assumptions, not just about WMD, were just wrong. Add in that once Saddam’s regime was torn down…rather quickly actually…there was nothing to fill the military, political, and economic void. A lot of bad stuff filled the void and prevented government institutions from arising and providing basic services. The administration adamantly believed that major reconstruction efforts were not required and impeded UN and other countries from getting involved in the process.

    It was simplistic to think that take out Saddam and the region would naturally flourish or that Chalabi could jump in and establish control of the bureacracy or that the military would uniformly surrender and not create the militias and gangs that caused so much problem. But it’s also simplistic to claim that better planning could not have improved the outcome. In hindsight, there clearly was no great threat from an Iraqi WMD program. There was also no real evidence of collusion between Saddam and Al Qaeda or Bin Laden. And despite Saddam being a regional irritant for 25 years, the vacuum of a failed nation state was a bigger risk for the foreseeable future.

    I think Iraq sits in a category by itself. There was always a sense that an injustice was done by leaving Saddam in place following the Kuwait action. The actual military part of it was wrapped up in 4 weeks. Everything that followed illustrated bad planning. I think the civilian leadership, the military, and the country understand that now. Few are eager to invade Iran or any where else really. Iraq and the housing collapse gave us Obama and subsequently Obamacare. The reaction to that gave us Trump. But we shouldn’t draw the conclusion that resisting Putin means another Iraq.

    AJ_Liberty (83c19c)

  92. The Arizona GOP Jumps the Shark:

    …………..
    In perhaps the most bizarre presentation given to the committee so far this year, Gilbert insurance agent Jacqueline Breger accused Gov. Katie Hobbs, several of the Maricopa County Supervisors, 12 Maricopa County Superior Court judges and the mayor of Mesa of taking bribes from the Sinaloa drug cartel in the form of money laundered through a housing deed scam. She also accused the legislators themselves of being on the take.

    She said in her Feb. 23 presentation to a joint meeting of the House and Senate elections committees that the bribery scheme also included election fraud in Maricopa County.

    Breger did not provide any evidence to back up her claims, except to point to a book soon to be released by John Thaler, a Valley attorney and her boyfriend. ………
    ……………
    Breger was invited to speak before the committee by Chandler Republican Rep. Liz Harris, a QAnon promoter who runs a website devoted to baseless 2020 election fraud conspiracies.

    (State Senator Ken Bennett R-Prescott) told the Arizona Mirror that he felt the people that Breger accused of committing crimes should have gotten a chance to defend themselves, instead of being called out during a public meeting.

    “We were hearing a whole bunch of information about a whole bunch of illegal stuff when we were supposed to be talking about elections,” Bennett said. “It felt very disconnected from what the meeting was supposed to be about.”
    …………

    Blowback:

    Wild and unsubstantiated allegations made in a hearing last week that dozens of elected officials, including state lawmakers, are secretly on the payroll of a Mexican drug cartel have roiled the legislature.

    While top Republicans have denounced the allegations as “disgraceful” and an “embarrassment,” no one is taking responsibility. Instead, leaders are blaming each other and a freshman GOP legislator who supposedly organized the day’s agenda.
    …………..
    The Senate, (Senate President Warren) Petersen said, was unaware that the final speaker of the day would allege that Gov. Katie Hobbs, several Maricopa County Supervisors, a dozen Maricopa County Superior Court judges and the mayor of Mesa were taking bribes from the Sinaloa drug cartel in the form of money laundered through a housing deed scam. Nor did they know she would accuse the lawmakers listening to her of being in on the scam.
    ………….
    ………….(A) spokesman for the House of Representatives Republican caucus attempted to shift the blame away from (House Speaker Ben Toma) to the Senate.

    “Why was the meeting held in the Senate and chaired by a senator?” spokesman Andrew Wilder told a journalist from Axios.

    Petersen swiftly responded on Twitter, noting that the joint hearing was held in the Senate because Toma “requested it.” And the meeting was co-chaired by a Republican from each legislative chamber, he noted.

    Toma, for his part, sought to place all of the blame for Breger’s testimony on (Rep. Liz Harris, a freshman Republican).
    ……………
    Harris is a prominent election denier and conspiracy theorist who runs a website devoted to baseless 2020 election fraud conspiracies. In 2021, she conducted a flawed canvass of the 2020 election in Maricopa County in an attempt to prove voter “fraud.”

    She is also closely aligned with QAnon. In posts on Facebook, Harris has shared the QAnon slogan, and has also appeared on a number of QAnon internat programs, often promoting her work in Maricopa County, which was done alongside other well-known election deniers associated with the QAnon conspiracy theory. And when Ron Watkins, the man many believe to be the person posting as Q, moved to Arizona, Harris owned the property that Watkins was registered to vote at.
    …………..

    Comedy gold!

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  93. Most of the cartoons in this week’s Politico collection were lousy. At best.

    But I got a perverse pleasure from two of them, Enos’s “war profiteers”, and Stiglick’s cartoon take on Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s defeat.

    A perverse pleasure from each of them, but for different reasons. Enos’s cartoon reminded me of the arguments made in the 1930’s that World War I was caused, not by German agression, but by war profiteers. For example. (Those arguments were one of the reasons Britain and America were not as prepared as we should have been for World War II. Some mistakes never die.)

    Stiglick’s cartoon jokes about the terrible murder toll in Chicago, a toll that explains why the Democratic mayor of that very Democratic city came in third in the primary, and was eliminated.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  94. https://www.thecollegefix.com/lgbtq-slurs-found-at-mit-done-by-students-protesting-schools-new-pro-free-speech-efforts/

    No surprise that the bigots trying to silence others in the name of “hate speech” are the ones creating the “hate speech” in the first place.

    NJRob (b8171b)

  95. @94

    I think that this actually meets the Sullivan test.

    It’s really hard to believe that Arizonans have all lost their minds, but it does get pretty hot in the summer….

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  96. Geez, I had no idea that even Steve Bannon was speaking at CPAC.

    Dana (1225fc) — 3/3/2023 @ 8:11 pm

    IThe CPAC Circus gets even better:

    ………..
    (Demonstrators who were arrested and charged for storming the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021) said they have been shut out of the banking system, de-platformed from social media, blacklisted from flying on commercial airlines — wrecked financially and socially — and, worse of all, forgotten by most conservative leaders in Washington.

    At a panel discussion titled “True Stories of January 6: The Prosecuted Speak,” they described a saga of persecution and abandonment:

    •They were ignored or ghosted by Republican lawmakers who once claimed to champion their cause.

    • They were left out of the equation when House Speaker Kevin McCarthy turned over Capitol surveillance video from Jan. 6 to Fox News’s Tucker Carlson, despite promises to make the video available to the public.

    • And they were relegated to a sideshow in a cramped meeting room rather than featured on the main stage at CPAC.

    The panel was hosted by Brandon Straka, a self-described former liberal Democrat who publicly left the party and founded the #WALKAWAY Campaign. He also was arrested at his residence and charged by federal authorities after he attended the rally that turned into a riot at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.
    ………….
    The mistreatment they suffer has extended to CPAC this year, said Mr. Straka.

    He said that while he participated in at least four previous CPAC events, usually as a speaker on the main stage, the organizers did not ask him to speak this year.
    …………..
    The group also expressed disappointment with Mr. McCarthy, California Republican, who released over 42,000 hours of Capitol security footage from Jan. 6 exclusively to Mr. Carlson.

    “We talked about the lack of people in Congress who want to help us. It’s very frustrating to have no problem fundraising off of our name,” said former West Virginia lawmaker Derrick Evans, who attended the Jan. 6 rally at the Capitol. ……….
    …………….

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  97. Rip Murdock (24fce2) — 3/4/2023 @ 10:02 am

    TrumpWorld not amused:

    ………. “storming the U.S. Capitol”????? If the people stormed the capitol, it would look like Bakhmut ……… Once you have a felony, you give up your right to vote. I’m sure that’s why conservatives are not trying to campaign for their votes. ……….This is one reason they didn’t want to release the CCTV footage. I think it shows the FBI and others set them up. ………. They are suffering today not because the GOP has forgotten them, but because the GOP wants them to suffer……… Is Ron DeSantis doing anything to advocate for them, or provide for their families? ……….</blockquote

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  98. The mistreatment they suffer has extended to CPAC this year, said Mr. Straka.

    I’ve been cheated, and mistreated!
    When will I be loved?

    It’s a rigged and stolen CPAC, Mr. Straka.

    nk (bb1548)

  99. Free speech! Humbug! People should only say what Ron DeSantis wants them to say. Not more, not less.

    nk (bb1548)

  100. I wonder if the GOP nomination contest will turn to the J6 rioters. Will someone promise to commute sentences? Or pardon them? Will President Trump give them all the Medal of Freedom? Or disband the Senate and put the rioters in their place?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  101. ‘Non-Person’ Donald Trump faces ‘soft ban’ at Fox
    ………..
    In recent months, 2024 Republican presidential hopefuls have been seen almost daily on the network, pitching themselves to its vast conservative audience. According to Media Matters’ internal database of cable news appearances, Nikki Haley’s been featured on weekday Fox News shows seven times since announcing her presidential bid on February 14. Even the little known fund manager Vivek Ramaswamy, who announced on February 21, has made four weekday appearances. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who is widely expected to run, has been all over the network in recent days.

    Trump hasn’t been on Fox News since announcing his presidential bid in November. His last weekday appearance on the network was in September with host Sean Hannity. During that interview, Trump said a president could declassify documents “by thinking about it.”
    ………..
    “The understanding is that they’re [Fox prime time hosts] not to have Trump on for an interview, because the Murdochs have made it pretty clear they want to move on from Trump … Fox is showing that by not having him on,” a Republican operative familiar with Trump’s campaign added.
    ………….
    The network skipped his speech in Ohio last week and Trump himself has complained publicly in recent days that the network is aggressively “promoting” DeSantis, despite him being the frontrunner in recent 2024 polls.
    ………..
    “If Rupert Murdoch honestly believes that the Presidential Election of 2020, despite MASSIVE amounts of proof to the contrary, was not Rigged & Stolen, then he & his group of MAGA Hating Globalist RINOS should get out of the News Business as soon as possible, because they are aiding & abetting the DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA with FAKE NEWS,” Trump wrote Wednesday on Truth Social, responding to the Dominion court filing.
    ………..

    TrumpWorld not amused:

    ………. Fox News has been under a “Hard Ban” at this house since November of 2020. This is a Newsmax household now. …………. We have reached an astonishing point in America when the man strongly leading in popularity for the Republican nomination is banned from Fox News… We are now in a showdown over whether or not the USA can survive as a representative republic without an all-out civil war. There is nothing in history to compare to the insanity of a strong and successful leader being hated by such a wicked, wealthy few but so loved by so many in his country for his commitment to the people and his love of country. ……….

    ……….. The power of the combined arms of the left, TV and Internet together with mail-in balloting, data mining, Democrat advantage in money and foot soldiers all in a decidedly daunting electoral college terrain, appear to be the factors determining election results………… I haven’t watched FOX since election night 2020. ……….. when I do watch, it is either news max or OANN. ……..

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  102. Link to TrumpWorld comments.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  103. I find it amazing that people SELECT propaganda and bubbles. They really are not interested in information but in getting their bullsh1t cosigned.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  104. Anti-Semitism in Action

    The FBI coordinated with local authorities in mid-February to arrest a heavily armed man who had threatened to kill all Jewish elected officials in Michigan on social media, according to a recently unsealed criminal case.
    ………..
    Jack Eugene Carpenter III, a resident of Tipton, Michigan, had tweeted on Feb. 17 that he was “heading back to Michigan now threatening to carry out the punishment of death to anyone that is jewish in the Michigan govt if they don’t leave, or confess,” according to the FBI’s affidavit.There are several prominent Jewish elected officials in the state, including Attorney General Dana Nessel, U.S. Rep. Elissa Slotkin and a handful of state senators and representatives.
    ……….
    Carpenter has been charged with transmitting an interstate threat, for which he could receive up to five years in federal prison, and is being held without bail in a federal court in Detroit, according to local reports. He was in Texas when he made the tweets, the FBI said.

    On a Twitter account the FBI linked to Carpenter, he claimed to be a former employee of the University of Michigan who “was fired for refusing to take experimental medication,” apparently referring to the COVID-19 vaccine. The University of Michigan has more than 6,500 Jewish students, according to Hillel International.
    ……….
    The Feb. 17 tweet by Carpenter directly threatening to kill Jewish elected officials, as quoted by the FBI, was not visible on the public Twitter account linked to him as of March 1. But a stated intent to return to Michigan that was also quoted by the FBI was visible, as were many other violent threats and antisemitic rants, including threatening allusions to the antisemitic conspiracy theory that the COVID-19 vaccine was developed by Jews as a means of controlling the world.

    “Any Jewish person holding a public office on my land after that time is subject to immediate punishment for their participation in an unlawful war of aggression using a biological weapon against me,” he wrote. Carpenter also threatened any law enforcement personnel who planned to interfere with him with “deadly force.”

    ……….Carpenter mentions some public figures by name in his manifestos, including Whitmer; Anthony Fauci; Chris Cuomo; and multiple University of Michigan personnel, all of whom he planned to target for “crimes against humanity”; the only Jewish figure he mentions is Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla.

    Carpenter also made references to several prominent right-wing conspiracy theories…….. In one tweet, Carpenter threatened to have Twitter CEO Elon Musk “publicly hanged.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  105. I know most understand we are fighting (destroying) russia on the cheap.

    Cheap? It’s convewnient to overlook The Cold War…. and it can hardly be labeled ‘cheap’:

    The Cold War Economy

    Opportunity Costs, Ideology, and the Politics of Crisis

    https://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=1297

    DCSCA (bad1f8)

  106. CPAC is entertaining weekend television. House beagles barking; assorted interest groups throwing fish to the seals; Tedtoo, once championed by many on this forum as POTUS timber, now just a Jolly Green Trumpman; undeclared Pompeo, lugs around a heavy resume but presents all the campaigning charisma of a bag of cement. Haley always looks swell, spoke balanced on a tightrope and took the temperature of the crowd but likely a VP at best. MIA DeSantis did not enhance his street cred beyond Florida by battling Mickey Mouse but avoiding a Trumpy gathering– he cannot win the nom without them.

    DCSCA (bad1f8)

  107. @93 gen. shinseki was fired for saying we need better planing then the neo-cons like rumsfeld and cheney before the war wanted. The cia was overruled and punished (see movie fair game) when they said their was little to evidence and in fact the nuclear program had been removed.

    asset (2940a8)

  108. @108 You make my point. The cold war cost trillions and is still costing us. A fraction of this amount is going to ukraine to degrade if not destroy russian military. We have troops around the world not in ukraine. If ukraine loses we will have to up are military spending not decrease it!

    asset (2940a8)

  109. We have troops around the world not in ukraine.

    -=sigh= ‘Pentagon Confirms Active-Duty U.S. Troops Are Deployed Inside Ukraine’

    The Pentagon has confirmed active-duty U.S. military are deployed inside Ukraine and have “resumed on-site inspections to assess weapon stocks.” This is Air Force Brigadier General Pat Ryder.

    Brig. Gen. Patrick Ryder: “My understanding is they would be well far away from any type of frontline actions. We are relying on the Ukrainians to do that. We’re relying on other partners to do that. … We’ve been very clear there are no combat forces in Ukraine, no U.S. forces conducting combat operations in Ukraine. These are personnel that are assigned to conduct security cooperation and assistance as part of the Defense Attaché Office.”

    https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/3/headlines/pentagon_confirms_active_duty_us_troops_are_deployed_inside_ukraine

    The ‘Five O’Clock Follies’ had a shorter name for ’em: “Advisors.”

    DCSCA (bbc5a4)

  110. I miss DRJ’s comments.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  111. #113 As do I.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  112. Humiliating:

    Russia’s long-standing foreign minister Sergei Lavrov provoked open laughter from the audience at an international conference in India after he falsely claimed that his home country was a victim of Ukrainian aggression.
    ……….
    “ How has the war affected Russia’s strategy on energy, and will it mark a privilege toward Asia? And if it does, how is India going to feature in it?” asked a member of the audience.

    “You know, the war, which we are trying to stop, which was launched against us, using the…” Mr Lavrov began, before loud laughter cut through his claim.

    “… The Ukrainian people, uh, of course, influenced…” Mr Lavrov continued with a straight face, video footage of the exchange shows. The audience can be heard laughing again, along with a groan of “Come on!” from one of its members. “… the policy of Russia, including energy policy,” Mr Lavrov concludes.
    ………….

    Video at link.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  113. Worth reading: This essay on the 1619 project:

    The 1619 Project is, strangely, a history project that encourages forgetting as much as it remembers.

    By which Robert C. Thornett means that the project often misleads by what it omits, as well as by what it gets wrong.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  114. This is an excellent analysis of Russia’s lack of planning and what it is costing them in manpower and weaponry as they fight to claim Bakhmut. Literally a city of rubble, zero infrastructure, and no strategic value. Mick Ryan is very good on strategy and tactics in this war. Interestingly, the only president courageous enough to go to Bakhmut to support his troops is Zelensky, of course.

    Dana (1225fc)

  115. Texas Republican wants ISPs to block a wide range of abortion websites
    ………..
    ………..”Each Internet service provider that provides Internet services in this state shall make every reasonable and technologically feasible effort to block Internet access to information or material intended to assist or facilitate efforts to obtain an elective abortion or an abortion-inducing drug,” the bill says.

    …………. ISPs would also have to block any website or online platform “operated by or on behalf of an abortion provider or abortion fund” and any website or platform used to download software “that is designed to assist or facilitate efforts to obtain an elective abortion or an abortion-inducing drug.”

    Finally, the bill would force ISPs to block any website or platform “that allows or enables those who provide or aid or abet elective abortions, or those who manufacture, mail, distribute, transport, or provide abortion-inducing drugs, to collect money, digital currency, resources, or any other thing of value.”
    ………….
    Individuals in Texas would be prohibited from making or hosting a website or platform “that assists or facilitates a person’s effort in obtaining an abortion-inducing drug,” for example.

    More broadly, the bill would establish “civil liability for distribution of abortion-inducing drugs.” It attempts to extend the law’s reach outside the Texas borders, saying “the law of this state applies to the use of an abortion-inducing drug by a resident of this state, regardless of where the use of the drug occurs.” ………

    The bill would create a private civil right of action that would let individuals sue people or organizations that violate the proposed law. ……….
    ………….
    The bill also seems to encourage ISPs to cut off broadband service from people who aim to spread information about abortion. ……..
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  116. Republicans say Biden FAA nominee is ‘not qualified’ for the job

    The nominee: Phillip Washington.

    https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/republicans-say-biden-nominee-not-qualified-for-the-job/

    ‘Phillip A. Washington is an American governmental administrator working as the CEO of Denver International Airport. He was previously CEO of the Los Angeles Metro, and served as the head of president Joe Biden’s transportation transition team. In July 2022, Washington was nominated to serve as administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration.

    In May 2015, Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti announced that Washington would become the new CEO of the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority… In November 2020, Washington was named Team Lead for the Joe Biden presidential transition Agency Review Team for the United States Department of Transportation. In February 2021, after informing the Metro Board not to renew or extend his contract, Washington announced he would be retiring from the post that May…

    [In] 2021, Denver mayor Michael Hancock nominated Washington to become the CEO of Denver International Airport, taking over the position from CEO Kim Day who was retiring… A few days after, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department had a criminal investigation at LACMTA’s offices related to a criminal investigation into Washington, which came after a Metro whistleblower’s claims of corruption. The investigation was of Metro’s sexual harassment hotline, which was found to cost more than $8,000 per call after “multiple no-bid contracts to run the service were awarded to Peace Over Violence, a charity led by a close friend and campaign donor of L.A. County Supervisor and Metro board member Sheila Kuehl.” Washington maintained that he was innocent and that the complaint was from a disgruntled employee, with Hancock supporting him. Despite the allegations and the investigation, the Denver City Council unanimously voted to approve Washington as the new CEO.’ – wikibio

    The FAA has eight major roles:

    Regulating U.S. commercial space transportation
    Regulating air navigation facilities’ geometry and flight inspection standards
    Encouraging and developing civil aeronautics, including new aviation technology
    Issuing, suspending, or revoking pilot certificates
    Regulating civil aviation to promote safety, especially through local offices called Flight Standards District Offices
    Developing and operating a system of air traffic control and navigation for both civil and military aircraft
    Researching and developing the National Airspace System and civil aeronautics
    Developing and carrying out programs to control aircraft noise and other environmental effects of civil aviation

    ““He does not have any experience in aviation safety. This quite simply is a position he is not qualified for,” Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) said. “I’m disappointed that the administration has chosen to treat a critical safety position as a patronage job.”

    “By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?” – Elaine Dickinson [Julie Hagerty] ‘Airplane!’ 1980

    DCSCA (0d1407)

  117. The bill would create a private civil right of action that would let individuals sue people or organizations that violate the proposed law

    We need to put a stop to that crap.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  118. Dana, you beat me to the Mick Ryan link, but I thought his final paragraphs were relevant (in addition to his thoughts about planning a good “retrograde”).

    The reality is that if the Russia captures #Bakhmut, they are seizing rubble. It is a town with little strategic importance & no infrastructure to support a force. That the Russians have invested so much in its capture speaks volumes about their poor #strategy in this war.

    For the Ukrainians, they will be withdrawing into defensive zones around #Kramatorsk that they have had eight years to prepare. Eight. Years. And it is on higher, more defensible ground than Bakhmut.

    While Ukraine may lose a town, the Russians have lost much more over the course of the battle. They have wasted military units, soldiers and resources that would have been valuable to them once the Ukrainians launch their offensives later in the Spring.

    The irony of this battle is that while Russia is desperate for a victory in the short term, Putin often talks of how patient Russia is and how it will outlast the West. There is little in Russian behaviour at present that supports Putin’s view.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  119. The bill would create a private civil right of action that would let individuals sue people or organizations that violate the proposed law

    We need to put a stop to that crap.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/4/2023 @ 3:22 pm

    Is that the only part you object to?

    For the record, I oppose internet censorship.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  120. @116 when I went to school we both said the pledge and prayed and when I was taught history except for a couple uncle toms black people were not mentioned. This was in tulsa where hundreds black people were murdered in 1921 and the black part of the city bombed ;but you would never know it from the schools their. I later found out a black teacher was fired for teaching about John Brown to her mostly black students. That got me interested in him. When I went to collage I found out that dr. king was not a dangerous revolutionary and communist! Your side omits plenty of history. I remember texas trying to censor history books that talked about the civil war and slavery. Your side is worse.

    asset (880261)

  121. Interestingly, the only president courageous enough to go to Bakhmut to support his troops is Zelensky, of course.

    If Putin ever visited his troops on the frontlines, he would be fragged.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  122. @112 how many combat troops are fighting in ukraine none. How many combat troops (not volunteers) have died fighting none. Can the same be said about the middle east and africa?

    asset (880261)

  123. Excerpt from Trump’s CPAC speech tonight:

    “In 2016, I declared: I am your voice. Today, I add: I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed: I am your retribution,” Trump plans to say. “I will totally obliterate the deep state. I will fire the unelected bureaucrats and shadow forces who have weaponized our justice system. And I will put the people back in charge of this country again.”

    “This is the final battle — they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump is expected say.

    Dana (1225fc)

  124. OMG, Dana.

    Simon Jester (0d54cc)

  125. @118. It’s Texas. But if they get away with doing it to abortion information, can vegetarian recipes be far behind? It’s Texas.(sic)

    nk (bb1548)

  126. Is that the only part you object to?

    It’s the only part that isn’t obviously unconstitutional and/or unworkable.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  127. @126: Shorter: “I am your Augustus!”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  128. @126. Grand entertainment; Trump spoke for two hours—- and in those 120 minutes, thankfully never once said, “folks, here’s the deal,” ‘no joke,’ nor “c’mon, man, I really, really mean it.”

    The GOPAC Straw Poll:

    Donald Trump Wins CPAC Straw Poll, More Than Tripling DeSantis’ Support

    The Conservative Political Action Conference straw poll on Saturday was overwhelmingly won by former President Donald Trump, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis a distant second and former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), and former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo all pulling in single digit support.

    Trump scooped up a whopping 62 percent of the vote of CPAC attendees, with DeSantis pulling in less than a third of that at 20 percent. The Florida governor’s poor polling at the conservative confab was somewhat expected since he decided not to attend. Michigan millionaire and longest-of-longshot candidates Perry Johnson came in a surprising third, with 5 percent. According to Politico reporter Meridith McGraw, Johnson’s campaign “set up shop here this week” and apparently the on-the-ground efforts paid off. Haley followed with 3 percent, and then Ramaswamy, Paul, Cruz, and Pompeo each got 1 percent. DeSantis was more competitive with the question asking CPAC attendees who they wanted as vice president. With the majority of poll takers (62%) picking Trump, most of these answers would be assuming the 45th president at the top of the ticket. – https://www.mediaite.com/politics/breaking-donald-trump-beats-desantis-haley-to-win-cpac-straw-poll/

    Only 3% for Darlin’ Nikki. She’s got an uphill fight for sure.

    DCSCA (1f60a6)

  129. You can watch excerpts of Trump’s CPAC speech on Twitter @atrupar (Aaron Rupar). I just watched a number of clips and am convinced more than ever that he has no business being in the White House or any other position of power. My god.

    Dana (1225fc)

  130. meanwhile, while we demand Fox News apologize

    Three years ago, I declared that COVID-19 almost certainly came from the Chinese Wuhan lab. Now, the world is finally admitting the truth.

    The cover-up of COVID-19’s origins is one of the greatest scandals in the history of the world. Millions of people all over the planet have died from the China Virus.

    The cost of the outbreak and the lying about its origins is incalculable, some say in excess of $50 trillion.

    Now it’s time to hold China—and the corrupt forces who have facilitated this colossal suppression of facts—accountable for the damage they have inflicted upon all of humanity.

    According to recent reports, the U.S. Department of Energy has concluded a Wuhan lab leak is the likely cause of the pandemic. The FBI reached the same conclusion. The facts are now plain for all to see.

    When I first suggested in early 2020 that the virus may have come from a lab, it was called ‘racist,’ a ‘conspiracy theory,’ and a claim for which ‘there is no evidence’.

    The entire globalist establishment—from the World Health Organization, to the media, to Anthony Fauci and the public health authorities, to the corrupt Silicon Valley tech giants, to Joe Biden—worked relentlessly to silence, censor, and shut down any suggestion that the so-called ‘lab leak theory’ could be true.

    Scientists who called for transparency and investigation were attacked.

    Facebook and Twitter labeled posts related to the theory as ‘disinformation.’

    The media mercilessly ridiculed the idea.

    When Joe Biden came into office, he shut down the investigation my administration had launched into the true origins of the China Virus.

    We all know the real reason for these censorship campaigns. The ‘lab leak’ did not serve their political agendas. So they did the Chinese Communist Party’s dirty work, and effectively imposed China’s propaganda on the Western world.

    There must now be a reckoning. The sinister censorship regimes in the United States and throughout the West must be dismantled and destroyed.

    This scandal is the best possible reminder of why we must have free speech.

    The World Health Organization must also be held to account. The WHO, which effectively did China’s bidding, fully endorsed the ‘natural origin’ theory, failed to conduct a thorough inquiry into the possibility that the virus came from a lab, and covered up for China at every turn.

    The WHO strongly recommended against my early China travel ban—which was proven to be 100 percent correct. Because of it, we saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the U.S.

    For this reason, as President, after my detailed requests for specific reforms were ignored, I terminated America’s relationship with the World Health Organization.

    The United States was paying the WHO $450million dollars a year when I dropped out, for 300 million people.

    China was paying $40million dollars for 1.4 billion people. They wanted me to come back in very badly. They offered me to come back in for what China pays. I said, ‘Some day I might take it, but you have to be admonished.’

    Not only did Joe Biden re-enter the WHO without getting any meaningful reforms, but he did so at full price, restoring the hundreds of millions of dollars American taxpayers send each year to an organization that badly misled the world in the service of Communist China.

    Now, Joe Biden is negotiating to sign a treaty giving the WHO sweeping powers any time foreign bureaucrats decide to declare a pandemic.

    In the event of a real emergency, the treaty would have us ship up to 20% of our medical supplies and medications to the WHO for distribution to other countries.

    This outrageous globalist scheme would put America and other signatories on the path to surrendering our sovereignty to the whims of foreign public health bureaucrats—the same people who got COVID-19 completely and totally wrong.

    The draft treaty also pushes censorship of disapproved speech about matters of public health—just like they censored the facts about the Wuhan Lab.

    This is insanity. America and other free nations should have no part in it.

    When I take the oath of office as the 47th president of the United States, I will once again withdraw the United States from the WHO, to protect our health, and to defend our freedom and independence.

    Finally, now that the evidence of Chinese culpability is clear to all, we must hold China financially responsible for unleashing this plague upon the world.

    Joe Biden will not do this. Biden is unbelievably weak on China—perhaps because his family has received millions of dollars from entities linked to the Chinese Communist Party.

    Yet the need for accountability remains. China’s deceptions and lies in the critical early phrase of the outbreak are well documented.

    For example, they long insisted to the world that the virus could not spread from human to human.

    They bought up vast quantities of PPE from all over the planet, while lying to other countries about the characteristics of the virus and the severity of the outbreak.

    Their lies and deception killed any opportunity to stop this deadly global catastrophe at the start.

    Add to that the probability that the virus emerged from a Chinese government lab, and may even have been engineered by Chinese government scientists, and it is clear that the nations of the world are not just owed a massive apology; they are owed massive damages.

    To collect this compensation, nothing should be off the table—tariffs, taxes, and a global summit on reparations.

    The World must ensure that such a tragedy never happens again!

    When he’s right, he’s right. Sorry haters!

    Source

    JF (e68188)

  131. That orange ass is too big to cover.

    Early in 2020, while Covid was exploding around the world, he made a “beautiful trade deal with Xi Jinping so Ivanka could keep her Chinese trademarks and the Kushners could keep selling investor visas to the Chinese. He then sent the FBI out to confiscate PPE from Americans and send it to China. Ventilators too.

    nk (bb1548)

  132. nk (bb1548) — 3/4/2023 @ 6:39 pm

    let the whaddabouts begin

    JF (4da5b8)

  133. Whadda about love? Don’t let it slip away
    Whadda about love? I only want to share it with you

    AJ_Liberty (4940cd)

  134. They’re not whaddabouts. They’re “Trump is a lying crapweasel”. Like water is wet.

    And he did not get TOTAL EXONERATION the Great Georgia Grand Jury either.

    nk (bb1548)

  135. Funny, I thought Chairman Xi was trying baby bonuses. Now Trump, too, I suppose in lieu of brown-skinned immigrants making babies.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  136. Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/4/2023 @ 7:24 pm

    sez someone who lives in the Pallor State, and as far removed from the southern border as anyone possibly can

    JF (4da5b8)

  137. Only 3% for Darlin’ Nikki. She’s got an uphill fight for sure.

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  138. Russian Media Watch:

    ………..
    Filmmaker Karen Shakhnazarov said (on state broadcaster Russia-1) those who claimed the Western alliance was on the verge of falling apart were wrong and Russia should admit a military defeat was a possibility.
    ………..
    Shakhnazarov said: “It really is a situation [in] which [we] may have the most serious consequences for us in the event of us losing.

    “And we need to admit that we could lose. I don’t agree with those who say, ‘Don’t say that! We’ll win.’
    …………
    ‘I don’t know about that. I don’t know. We need to admit that we could lose. If you don’t you’re not looking for different possible outcomes.

    “If you believe that things will just happen by themselves—no, that’s not right.

    “It’s weakness! It’s not strength, it’s weakness. You have to be able to look the truth in the eyes. You have to be able to at your strengths and weaknesses and see the situation.”
    …………
    He added: “We need to treat Ukraine and Zelensky seriously. He’s dangerous. He’s not stupid. He’s energetic.

    “He’s playing a large role in this story. He’s not just a puppet.”
    ………….

    Video at link.

    Stay away from high windows.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  139. The easiest way for Karen Shakhnazarov to rehabilitate himself would be to move the goalposts a bit and hint around that he was asking for the nuclear option to be taken seriously in the event of a loss to America and NATO, or maybe that Russia should try to manipulate the drug cartels in Mexico to launch attacks on America.

    steveg (dec718)

  140. More from Donald Trump at CPAC:

    “I will send in the National Guard until law and order is restored. You know we’re not supposed to do that,” Trump said in his address closing out the annual Conservative Political Action Conference …….
    ………….
    Without evidence, Trump claimed that, as President, he ordered the clearing out of homeless encampments in Washington, DC. He also bemoaned how his chairman of the joint chiefs of staff Gen. Mark Milley objected to Trump’s June 2020 order for National Guard forces to use tear gas and rubber bullets to push out racial justice protestors from Lafayette Park in front of the White House so Trump could stage a photo op with a bible in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church. “He didn’t like me holding up a bible in front of a church,” Trump said about Milley.
    …………
    ……….. Trump repeatedly praised the use of force to address the nation’s problems. He also praised those who continue to defend the rioters who broke through police lines at the Capitol Building on Jan. 6, 2021, and said that if he is elected back into the White House, he would be “your warrior” and “your retribution.”
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  141. Sorry about the lack of blockquotes.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  142. sez someone who lives in the Pallor State, and as far removed from the southern border as anyone possibly can

    What I’ve learned the last few years is that using the phrase “brown-skinned” gets Trumpists quite angry and irritable. And FTR, while WA State is mostly whitebread, Seattle and the Eastside is a legitimate melting pot.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  143. That orange ass is too big to cover.

    To be fair, by the time that Trump was told, in late January 2020, the virus was already here and spreading and the advice he got was conflicting.

    Of course, since his empire was based on tourism, he was not in any rush to shut it down.

    Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=100X1R2fkKA

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  144. Anyone who takes Trump’s word for something in the past is a fool. Hell, anyone who takes Trump’s word for something right in front of them is a fool.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  145. Only 3% for Darlin’ Nikki. She’s got an uphill fight for sure.

    CPAC is the lunatic fringe. I’m surprised she got 3%

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  146. Tom Nichols, on Trump’s proposed “baby bonuses” policy.

    I think there’s a huge difference between a child tax credit (which I think it is necessary as long as it’s means-tested) and paying people to be Hero Mothers of the State.

    But it’s not a real policy, it’s word salad riffing stream of consciousness. And this

    Trump wants to give out free money to create a new baby boom. I remember when right wing conservatives called that “welfare.”

    While I was doing fieldwork yesterday, I listened a long BBC segment on Chairman Xi’s complete flip-flop from One Child Policy to Bang ‘Em Out, and it’s a major mental adjustment for the women who were told to raise their one child to the utmost.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  147. sez someone who lives in the Pallor State, and as far removed from the southern border as anyone possibly can

    I live in New Mexico, and I agree with Paul.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  148. Alaska drops ban on discrimination of lbgtq people.(DU) Wimp corporate establishment liberal democrats will whine and knash their teeth. Patrick Henry had a better solution.

    asset (e52403)

  149. Readers here know that as soon as I learned enough about the wuhan lab I was suspicious of the chinese and WHO cover story and called out the those especially in the democrat party who discounted it for political gain. Others here was suspicious too. As I remember most here were suspicious.

    asset (e52403)

  150. Here’s a full list of the stores Walmart is announced they’re closing.

    Time123 (2194fb)

  151. Portland in all its leftist glory.
    NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/5/2023 @ 3:53 am

    Maybe they could “smell the Trump support” (h/t Peter Strzok)

    In other Partlandistan news:

    Nike abruptly closed a key Portland store and reportedly wants to reopen with off-duty police officers that can arrest shoplifters

    followed by

    Nike Offers to Pay Police to Guard Portland Store From Shoplifters

    then, the inevitable

    Portland nixes Nike’s request to hire city cops for its MLK store, offers future public safety blitz for the area

    democrats in action

    JF (09dc29)

  152. As I remember most here were suspicious.
    asset (e52403) — 3/4/2023 @ 11:52 pm

    LOL you probably should review the archives

    it was one of those right wing conspiracy theories, which are always the butt of jokes until years later when they end up being true

    JF (09dc29)

  153. Larry Hogan Says He Will Not Run for President

    Mr. Hogan, the former Maryland governor and longtime Trump critic, said he saw little room to gain support and did not want a large candidate field that could help Mr. Trump win the 2024 Republican primary.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  154. Huh?

    Donald Trump and a group of individuals incarcerated for their alleged involvement in the Jan. 6 riot have collaborated on a song called “Justice for All.” It (debuted) Thursday at midnight on streaming services, including Apple Music and Spotify……..

    The track interpolates Trump reciting the Pledge of Allegiance into “The Star-Spangled Banner,” which is performed by a group of about 20 inmates, called the J6 Prison Choir, housed at the Washington, D.C. jail. The song ends with the inmates chanting, “USA!”

    Profits are slated to benefit the families of people imprisoned for their alleged roles in the Capitol riots that left five people dead.

    A music video featuring footage of Trump performing patriotic acts during his presidency and shots of the
    riots, including police firing tear gas, (debuted) Friday morning on Steve Bannon’s “War Room” podcast.

    Trump recorded the Pledge of Allegiance at Mar-a-Lago a couple of weeks ago, specifically for this track. The inmates, who sing the national anthem nightly, were recorded over a jailhouse phone about a month ago. The song, which runs 2 minutes and 20 seconds, was reportedly produced by a major recording artist who was not identified.
    ……………
    …………… Funds are slated to go to an LLC run by (conservative commentator Ed) Henry, who will then disperse the profits. Recipients will be vetted to make sure proceeds do not benefit families of people who assaulted a police officer.
    ……………

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  155. Remember the Chicago Seven? This is the Trumpian version.

    If Trump wins the nomination, come of these people will be speakers at the convention.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  156. ‘Seriously. This is real’: Trump’s new song with insurrection ‘prison choir’ mocked
    …………
    The song quickly prompted scorn from Twitter users.

    “Seriously. This is real. A narcissistic who is running to be elected working with the insurgents who tried to overturn the election,” one user said.

    “The J6 Prison Choir. I really wish I could go back to bed, because wtf,” another Twitter user wrote.

    Paul Elliott John requested that someone “pls shoot me into the sun”.

    “What else must we endure?” GH Allison added.

    “WILL IT BE GRAMMY NOMINATED LOL,” another Twitter user pondered.

    “I thought this was satire at first,” another person added.

    “$10 Says Trump gets the lion’s share of the money,” one Twitter user suggested.

    “If there’s a god, Trump will be indicted and tried for January 6th AND his sedition song video will be played at the trial,” another account holder added.

    “Speaking as someone who is not a music reporter but who covers Trump’s businesses, I would not be surprised to see this track reach the Billboard charts,” Forbes reporter Zach Everson, who wrote the initial story on the song, said.

    “So does ‘Justice for All’ mean Trump’s joining them?” John Fugelsang asked.

    “It’s like ‘We Are The World’ but for domestic terrorists,” Jon Alba said.
    ………….
    Douglas Lukasik tweeted that “for those of you who think Trump will win the GOP nomination and/or the Presidency, please note that his current target audience is … January 6 rioters and their families. That’s who he thinks the GOP base is. Not sure how one can live in FL and believe this, but it’s DJT!”
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  157. RIP Ricou Browning (93). He WAS the Creature From the Black Lagoon. He also directed the speargun fight sequence in Thunderball.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  158. Trump:

    For example, they long insisted to the world that the virus could not spread from human to human.

    For about three weeks after they admitted the virus existed on December 31, 2019. This had earlier been claimed in Wuhan.

    This acknowledgement was postponed about a week after the decision had been made to admit it so they could get a trade deal signed with the United States – a trade deal they knew they’d never have to live up to.

    It was only long if you use a logarithmic scale of time.

    Saying it was not easily spread maybe went on a bit longer.

    They bought up vast quantities of PPE from all over the planet, while lying to other countries about the characteristics of the virus and the severity of the outbreak.

    True. This was the Australian theory as to their motive for doing so, I don’t think that was their main motive. Their motive was to avoid being cut off from the world,

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/08/27/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-the-investigation-into-the-origins-of-covid-%E2%81%A019/

    Sammy Finkelman (35fa6f)

  159. The link is a refutation of Trump’s claim that Biden shut off the investigation of the origin of Covid. I think he did, but then he restarted it, bigger.

    Why do you think the FBI and DOE came to a conclusion that it probably originated in a lab?

    Sammy Finkelman (35fa6f)

  160. @163: Students with good test scores will still submit them. Students who don’t, can’t. This is really just an attempt to avoid any quantitative record so they can be as biased as they want and no one cand say they were.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  161. I could believe that the Sinaloa or other drug cartel had bribed the DC City Council, but I’d still want to see some indication of that.

    Sammy Finkelman (35fa6f)

  162. Trump Litigation Watch:

    …………
    In an amicus brief filed on Thursday, lawyers for the DOJ argued that while immunity for sitting presidents from civil lawsuits is rightfully broad, it is not absolute — it does have an “outer perimeter.” The DOJ argues that it’s possible that Trump did indeed spur his supporters on to violence.

    “No part of a President’s official responsibilities includes the incitement of imminent private violence,” the Justice Department argues. “By definition, such conduct plainly falls outside the President’s constitutional and statutory duties.”

    Attorneys for Trump had argued that a president is “undoubtedly” entitled to absolute immunity from civil liability “when he or she gives a speech on a matter of public concern.”
    …………
    “[T]he scope of a President’s absolute immunity in this context should be informed by principles analogous to those the Supreme Court has developed in defining the sort of incitement that is unprotected by the First Amendment,” the brief says (citations omitted). “Under Brandenburg v. Ohio, speech lies outside the First Amendment only if it is ‘directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.’ That standard reflects our ‘profound national commitment’ that ‘debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open.’ And it ensures that speakers cannot be held liable merely for ’emotionally charged rhetoric,’ ‘strong language,’ or ‘spontaneous and emotional appeals.’”
    ………….
    “Nixon v. Fitzgerald establishes a rule of absolute immunity for the President’s official acts,” the brief says. “It is not a rule of absolute immunity for the President regardless of the nature of his acts.”
    ………….
    The DOJ did not take a position on whether Trump’s speech that day actually did reach that level of incitement, only that the appellate court should conclude that Brandenburg should be the standard for determining whether a president could be sued for speech that reaches that stringent standard.

    The Justice Department’s amicus brief was filed in connection with multiple civil cases filed against Trump over his role in sparking the Jan. 6 Capitol riot………
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  163. Trump Litigation Watch II:

    ………….
    In an interview with Hugh Hewitt on Wednesday, (former New Jersey Governor Chris) Christie said he didn’t think Trump’s legal team would be able to dismiss the Georgia case over the grand jury foreperson’s conduct. But he said “I still have a hard time believing” Trump will be indicted for attempting to pressure Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger into finding enough votes to swing the state in his favor during the 2020 election:
    …………..
    When the conversation moved on to Special Counsel Jack Smith, Christie assessed that Trump remains legally exposed for the build-up to the Capitol riot and the obstruction of Congress entailed therein. Christie expected neither Trump nor President Joe Biden to be prosecuted over their classified documents scandals, but he was asked to summarize Trump’s legal perils by asking if the former president will be indicted before the 2024 primary debates.

    Christie predicted it would happen, but while he was skeptical about how much legal danger Trump faces, he said Trump’s campaigning is likely to make his situation worse:

    ……….I think the most likely place it will happen is New York. And I think it’s the least harmful matter to him. If in fact all they’re looking at is the Stormy Daniels payments, I think that Letitia James has made it clear that she’s a political prosecutor, and that what she wants to do, and that she promised during the campaign, that she was going to go get Donald Trump. And I think she probably will. But I don’t think that would do much harm to him. So I think in terms of the likelihood of indictment, I’d put New York first, the special counsel second, Georgia third. But in terms of the seriousness of the peril for the president, I’d put the Special Counsel above either of those.
    ………….
    Hewitt: Can someone run for office and do debates and give interviews when they’re under indictment and not make their situation worse?

    Christie: ………I don’t know that he’d make his situation markedly worse. But every time you open your mouth, as you know in this kind of situation, you run the real risk of it adding complications to a case where you could lose your liberty. And that’s why defense lawyers always rightfully tell their clients to keep quiet, because you don’t need to make that situation more complicated, because your liberty is at stake.

    ###########

    Christie seems to be confused. The Stormy Daniels criminal investigation is being conducted by the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office, while the New York Attorney General’s civil investigation is related to how The Trump Organization valued properties for tax and loan applications.

    I would be very surprised if Trump is personally indicted on anything.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  164. Trump Litigation Watch III:

    Former President Donald Trump wants to postpone a trial in the New York attorney general’s $250 million fraud suit against him, his family and his business empire at least six months, deep into the next campaign season.

    The request became public on Friday in a 28-page legal brief by Trump’s team, seeking to postpone the fact discovery deadline until Sept. 29, 2023, and the expert discovery deadline to Dec. 8, 2023.

    The latter date, which is only for the end of the pre-trial information-sharing process, is well after the scheduled trial date of Oct. 2, 2023.
    …………
    New York Attorney General Letitia James (D), who sued Trump, his business and his family in September, will likely oppose any delay.
    ………….
    Trump’s lawyer Clifford Robert argues that the “complex commercial action,” filed as a 200-page complaint, requires too much time to be ready by the original deadline.

    “The allegations in the complaint involve more than 200 asset valuations and 11 financial compilations stretching over a decade,” Trump’s legal brief says. “The valuations at issue cover more than eight separate categories of property, each of which require detailed and individualized factual analysis.”

    “To properly prepare their defenses, Defendants must be afforded sufficient time to review the extraordinary volume of documentary evidence produced by the Attorney General, prepare and serve third-party subpoenas, and take thorough fact witness testimony to put a complete and proper factual record before their experts,” the brief states. “Those experts must then be able to evaluate the relevant record and present thorough opinion testimony. Fundamental fairness and due process requires no less.”
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  165. Two California Men Sentenced To Prison For Conspiracy To Attack Democratic Headquarters In Sacramento
    …….
    Ian Benjamin Rogers was sentenced to 108 months (9 years) in prison and Jarrod Copeland was sentenced to 54 months (4.5 years) in prison for their respective roles in crimes including a conspiracy to destroy the Democratic Headquarters in Sacramento……….

    “The defendants in this case admitted that they intended to destroy the headquarters of a political organization by firebombing it,” said U.S. Attorney (Stephanie) Hinds. “Their decision to ‘go to war’ was based on their thought that they would rather destroy their political opponents’ building than acknowledge they lost an election……..”
    …………
    Rogers and Copeland entered into separate plea agreements in which they admitted their role in the crimes. Both defendants admitted in their plea agreements that after the 2020 Presidential election they conspired together to destroy the John L. Burton Democratic Headquarters in Sacramento. They admitted that between November 2020 and January 2021 they discussed attacking the Democratic Headquarters building with cans of gasoline, including by throwing gas cans through the front windows of the building and igniting the gasoline to burn down the building.

    They also acknowledged that Rogers viewed the Democratic Headquarters building on the internet and sent a map of the location to Copeland, discussing the building’s proximity to a fire department and certain law enforcement in devising their plan, all to refine the method of attack to ensure they caused the greatest damage to the building while allowing their escape without detection. Rogers and Copeland also admitted discussing how they would wait until after the presidential inauguration on Jan. 20, 2021, before carrying out the attack.

    Papers filed by the government describe how law enforcement officers seized a cache of weapons, including 45 to 50 firearms, thousands of rounds of ammunition, and five pipe bombs from Rogers’s home and business on Jan. 15, 2021. Just days earlier, Rogers wrote to Copeland, “after the 20th we go to war.”

    Rogers admitted in his plea agreement that he had constructed the pipe bombs and anticipated using them against the property of those whose political views differed from his, including the Democratic Headquarters building in Sacramento. He further admitted that he possessed at least three fully automatic machine guns and considered using one of them in the attack on the building.
    …………..
    On July 7, 2021, a federal grand jury handed down an indictment charging Copeland with one count of conspiracy to destroy by fire or explosive a building used in or affecting interstate commerce, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 844(i) and (n); and one count of obstruction of justice, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(c).

    The grand jury also charged Rogers with the conspiracy charge as well as one count of possession of unregistered destructive devices, in violation of 26 U.S.C.§ 5861(d), and three counts of possession of machine guns, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o).

    Copeland pleaded guilty to both charges pending against him.

    Rogers pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge, one count of possession of unregistered destructive devices, and one count of possessing an illegal machine gun. At the sentencing, Judge Breyer dismissed the remaining charges with respect to Rogers.
    …………..

    The defendants were sentenced by Senior United States District Judge. Charles Breyer, who is the brother of former Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer.

    Paragraph breaks added.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  166. The Republican presidential nomination could run through California. Yes, California
    ………..
    A March 2024 vote and an open GOP field offer California’s beleaguered conservatives a chance to step off the statewide sidelines and into the fray of a national fight.
    ……….
    Part of the calculus will involve California’s decentralized nominating process. Most of the state’s delegates are allocated by House district, with the top vote-getter in each district receiving three. California Republican Party officials intentionally made the change many cycles ago to open up a statewide formula that had helped catapult favorite son Ronald Reagan into the White House.
    ………..
    That means candidates have 52 separate chances — one for each congressional seat — to pick up votes. Winning a solidly red San Diego seat will be just as valuable as carrying a plurality of San Francisco’s 29,000 Republicans.
    ………..
    Republican voters in California run the gamut from Orange County denizens with beachfront views to residents of northern rural counties who hope to create their own state. ……..

    California Republicans have resoundingly supported Trump, voting for him in record numbers. Supporting him was a prerequisite for leadership in the state party.

    But that support is wavering. ……..
    ………..

    Some Republicans are balancing genuine admiration for Trump with other political considerations. Republican Assemblymember Devon Mathis, who is vociferously advocating for former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley, said he believed Trump had done a good job but wanted someone who could serve out two terms. Mathis also warned of the down-ballot ripples.

    “A lot of people want to stay loyal to the former president, and there’s a lot of people who feel like he got robbed,” Mathis said, but “as much as some people don’t like to admit it, Trump was pretty toxic for our delegation. Every single ad was tying Republicans to Trump, in every target seat in California.”
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  167. Some news article have been calling erythritol an “artificial” sweetener, since an article in Nature linked it to heart problems. (In the US, it is usually sold under the Truvia brand name.) I would say the commercial version is about as artificial as cheese or yogurt, judging by this Wikpedia article:

    Erythritol occurs naturally in some fruit and fermented foods.[8] It also occurs in human body fluids, such as eye lens tissue, serum, plasma, fetal fluid, and urine.
    . . .
    Erythritol is manufactured using enzymatic hydrolysis of the starch from corn to generate glucose.[22] Glucose is then fermented with yeast or another fungus to produce erythritol. A genetically engineered mutant form of Yarrowia lipolytica, a yeast, has been optimized for erythritol production by fermentation, using glycerol as a carbon source and high osmotic pressure to increase yields up to 62%.

    Or, perhaps, even less.

    I suppose though, that calling it “artificial” will appeal to those with the common Green superstition that “natural” is good, and “artificial” is bad.

    (Is erythritol a cause of heart problems? It’s hard to tell since the study did not measure intake, and our bodies do make it. Which seems “natural” to me.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  168. “Under Brandenburg v. Ohio, speech lies outside the First Amendment only if it is ‘directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action…'”

    When said speech is in fact followed by immediate lawless action this test is far easier to meet.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  169. Steven Spielberg Has His Own Theory About Those UFOs: ‘What If It’s Us, 500,000 Years in the Future?’

    “The most optimistic thing I feel about these things we see in the skies, that the Army and Navy and Air Force are recording on their gun cameras, is that what if they’re not from an advanced civilization 300 million lightyears from here?,” he said. “What if it’s us, 500,000 years in the future, that is coming back to document the second half of the 20th century and into the 21st century because they’re anthropologists? And they know something we don’t quite know yet that has occurred, and they’re trying to track the last hundred years of our history.” – indiewire.com

    “Fascinating.” – Mr. Spock [Leonard Nimoy] nearly every classic ‘Star Trek’ NBC TV, 1966-69

    DCSCA (7b4223)

  170. Rip Murdock (24fce2) — 3/5/2023 @ 12:29 pm

    Related:

    …………
    Republicans in California would choose DeSantis over Trump in a head-to-head presidential matchup by a resounding 17 points, according to the poll. That advantage shrinks in a Republican field featuring former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and other Republican contenders, but DeSantis still would enjoy a clear advantage over Trump in that scenario. He also has a higher favorability rating among Republicans than the former president.
    …………

    From the poll:

    Favorable/Unfavorable:

    All voters Republican voters

    Donald Trump 26/71 69/28

    Ron DeSantis 30/55 79/14

    Presidential Preference:
    Republican voters only Trump/DeSantis Only

    Donald Trump 29%. 30%

    Ron DeSantis 37 50

    Nikki Haley 7

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  171. When said speech is in fact followed by immediate lawless action this test is far easier to meet.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/5/2023 @ 12:44 pm

    It will depend whether the evidence shows that the words used were directed to any person or group and evidence that they were intended and likely to produce imminent disorder. See Hess v. Indiana 414 U.S. 105 (1973).

    As I said above I don’t think Trump will be indicted for anything.

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  172. Would like to hear opinions on how Republicans expect to “win” the next POTUS cycle w/o MAGA supporters. Yes, state and local elections are battlefields unto themselves and efforts within at that level can’t be overlooked. Reagan succeeded w/a coalition of ‘extreme’ factions w/t ‘Big Tent’ concept– even ‘Reagan Democrats’ came aboard. But Reagan, both a D and R in his political history, struck a balance of sorts w/t the more extreme factions in the party and today, many of those minions have now risen to shape the party of today. He left office 34 years ago and the character of both the party and the country have changed. Anybody recall the D’s wistfully calling for FDR in 1979, 34 years after he left office? Nope. Revisit some editorials of the time. Somebody in the GOP is going to have to strike a deal to pull together all these factions… or, unless common sense and fate intervene, the country may face another four years of a Biden/Harris administration.

    DCSCA (eb9ac0)

  173. Unhappy campers: House Democrats were infuriated and taken aback by President Biden’s announcement on Thursday that he will sign a resolution to nix the District of Columbia’s crime bill.

    Pelosi on DC crime bill: I wish Biden ‘would’ve told us first’

    Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi criticized President Biden’s handling of a GOP-led resolution that would overturn parts of a District of Columbia crime bill, decrying that he should have given Democrats “a heads up.”

    “If he was going to do it I wish he would’ve told us first, because this was a hard vote for the House members,” Pelosi said at a University of Chicago event on Friday, after being asked whether she agreed with Biden on the bill. – theHill.com

    ‘Told you first?’ But Nancy:

    “I trust his [Biden’s] judgment.” – Nancy Pelosi, 8/25/21

    DCSCA (eb9ac0)

  174. A Useful Use of One’s Time

    …………
    ………… (M)uch of (Donald Trump) and his team’s time is spent bemoaning his lack of coverage by Fox News and other cable networks, griping about his 2020 reelection defeat — something he’s very much not letting go — and workshopping new nicknames for his chief rival in GOP politics, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

    Trump, allies say, seems set on “Ron DeSanctimonious,” even though others around him don’t think it’s a bullseye. Some of the new ideas the former president’s entertained: “Ron DisHonest.” “Ron DeEstablishment.” Or even, “Tiny D.”

    His team has spent weeks trying to dig up dirt on DeSantis’s record as governor; his wife, Casey, a former television journalist; his year teaching at a boarding school in Georgia and his record as a member of Congress, including support for raising the US retirement age and partly privatizing Medicare as part of then-Speaker Paul Ryan’s conservative budget plan.
    …………
    They hope to portray the sitting governor and former representative as the establishment candidate and “Republican-in-Name-Only,” and the former president as the populist outsider — despite his four years in the White House and his familiarity among voters.
    …………
    If they can deflate DeSantis and the field of rivals remains broad, Trump’s allies believe he can once again win the nomination simply because his longstanding grip on about 30% of Republican voters. Should another three or four people split the remainder, no single candidate would have enough support to challenge Trump until it’s too late.
    …………..

    TrumpWorld not amused:

    ……… How low is someone’s IQ if they vote for Trump because of the nickname he gives his opponent? …….. Zero class. Instead of growing up, he’s regressing. ……… Anybody that thinks Trump’s childlike antics are smart or effective has a “tiny brain.” ………. And since that was the main thing he had going for him in the 2016 primary debates, it is very believable. ……. It’s psychological manipulation, which the deep state does to the public every single day, by placing mental image in your head. You can’t help but think of the nickname, if it’s a good one……..

    ………. Someone needs to tell him this to his face:
    “You want to win…start talking like a business man and less like a spoiled brat “ ……… Does he really think this plays well with his base, which quickly become his “former” base? …….. Trump’s political brand is built on insults like this. No one is going to be upset. It’s all part of the fun. ……… His 2016 tactics are out-of-date in 2024. ……..

    Rip Murdock (24fce2)

  175. Bret Baier is one of the few cable news personalities I respect for refusing to surrender journalistic principles to personal bias and profit. Vanishingly rare voices of reason who expose their echo-chamber-seeking viewers to hard truths deserve our gratitude for the public service. If the Times reporting is accurate that he demanded Fox cave to pressure from Trump supporters to reverse its Arizona call for Biden, he needs to explain his thinking and take responsibility or lose a lot of hard earned respect and trust. I really hope he clears the air.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  176. It will depend whether the evidence shows that the words used were directed to any person or group and evidence that they were intended and likely to produce imminent disorder

    Sure, but it is much harder if there is no disorder following.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  177. @181:

    Shepard Smith left Fox for CNBC, where he had a level-headed actual NEWS hour. Unfortunately, it did not attract the wingnuts that Fox and MSNBC attract and so the ratings were poor. I’m guessing he ends up at CNN.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  178. I like this plan:

    The state of Utah wants residents to catch — and eat — more bullfrogs.

    Bullfrogs are an invasive species there, meaning they interfere with local ecosystems by feasting on native animals and introducing new pathogens. The Utah Department of Natural Resources tweeted a reminder last month that people can catch as many bullfrogs as they want.

    “And bonus,” the agency wrote: “they’re tasty.”

    I hope they have some success with it. (And I just learned that there are “professional frog catchers”.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  179. Bret Baier is one of the few cable news personalities I respect for refusing to surrender journalistic principles to personal bias and profit.

    OTOH, don’t recall Cronkite nor Brinkley, Huntley, Reynolds, Jennings, Chancellor, Brokaw etc., peddling any books they’d written during their newscasts, which cabler Baier has done [which is likely part of his contract w/NewsCorp.]– not all that out of line in this era, but does fuzz-up the ‘purity’ of the straight newscaster tradition. But he’s certainly one of the more grounded journalists at NewsCorp., and definitely not one of their opinionators– though he has expressed restrained opinions when appearing on comedy platforms such as ‘Gutfeld!’ and such– usually in conjunction w/a new book release or an exclusive interview package.

    DCSCA (37b2af)

  180. @184. Lest you forget, ‘frog legs’ are a favorite repast of Utah senator Pierre Delecto:

    Mitt Romney Swallows Pride, Frogs Legs at Dinner With Donald Trump

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/11/romney-swallows-pride-frogs-legs-at-dinner-with-trump.html

    DCSCA (37b2af)

  181. My mother, who has been a John Bircher for over 50 years, supported Trump more than any President in my memory. However, she has finally soured on him. What did it?

    Trump’s call to terminate the Constitution.

    norcal (7345e5)

  182. Ron DeSantis, Film Producer:

    ………..
    Capping a year-long feud with one of the state’s largest employers, DeSantis signed into law a bill officially granting a new state-appointed board the responsibilities of Disney’s Reedy Creek Improvement District and named a slate of conservative leaders.
    …………
    Though the board is tasked with overseeing duties such as sewage treatment and road maintenance at Disney’s properties, DeSantis suggested Monday that he is also expecting it to act as a sort of moral arbiter for the company he has described as a “woke Burbank corporation” that is “trying to inject woke ideology” on children.

    “When you lose your way, you’ve got to have people that are going to tell you the truth,” DeSantis said. “So we hope they can get back on. But I think all of these board members very much would like to see the type of entertainment that all families can appreciate.”

    The board doesn’t have direct power over the creative content Disney produces, such as movies and characters and rides. But because the new appointees hold purse strings over infrastructure projects, they could influence Disney’s decisions.

    “They can decide to borrow money or not to fund projects, or they could decide not to expand infrastructure to allow projects to go forward,” said Aubrey Jewett, an associate professor of political science at the University of Central Florida.
    ………..
    Jewett said the news conference indicates that DeSantis is “charging the board with an agenda.”

    “And it seems clear that this new board may put some pressure on Disney not to fight against DeSantis’s agenda,” he added.
    …………
    ……….. Jewett said that while some conservative Republicans outside of Florida have argued that DeSantis is wrong to use state power to punish a company that had crossed him, DeSantis has nonetheless turned the dispute into a political win with the GOP base.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (a0d2e4)

  183. The Birch Society wasn’t all that keen on parts of the Constitution, arguing, among other things, for state Nullification.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  184. @187. Interesting. My late mother was a staunch Goldwater Girl– until he lost; worked in his campaign back East in ‘Jersey in ’64, too; my late father was more the ‘Rockefeller Republican’ while my grandfather went with which ever party deposited their funds w/t PNB- where he was a VP – and at the time he was a long time personal friend of then PA State Treasurer, Grace Sloan, a D. It created some friction between the folks at holidays but I do recall him showing up for a visit from PA to go to the DNC convention in ’64 down in Atlantic City which sort of ticked off my father. Only recently, while viewing a CSPAN/NBC kinescope of Robert Kennedy’s speech to the convention not long after JFK’s assassination, did we discover, much to our surprise, brief images of my grandfather amidst the Pennsylvania delegation when they panned across the crowd.

    DCSCA (37b2af)

  185. @148. CPAC is the lunatic fringe. I’m surprised she [Nikki Haley] got 3%

    Yeah. But how are you [or she] going to secure a nom and win the general w/o them? There has to be some appeal or compromise w/those factions– especially given their numbers; just labelling then ‘nutty’ won’t entice them into the tent. Nikki and others have to walk quite a tightrope. It’s a real pickle, as the ultimate objective is to avoid another four years of a Biden/Harris administration– assuming he runs.

    DCSCA (37b2af)

  186. Students with good test scores will still submit them. Students who don’t, can’t. This is really just an attempt to avoid any quantitative record so they can be as biased as they want and no one cand say they were.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/5/2023 @ 10:47 am

    They’re getting ready for the Supreme Court to finally overturn O’Connor’s disaster.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  187. Rip,

    You’re against Haley, and seemingly against DeSantis. Whom are you for? I know you’re not for Trump.

    norcal (7345e5)

  188. Interesting. My late mother was a staunch Goldwater Girl

    DCSCA (37b2af) — 3/5/2023 @ 4:50 pm

    My mom was a Goldwater Girl also. I think that’s when she got seriously involved in politics. We lived in the Bay Area at the time, and she heard all kinds of negative stuff about Goldwater, only to find out she agreed with him.

    norcal (7345e5)

  189. A. Trump, DeSantis, and flesh-eating bacteria.

    Q. Three things that should remain in Florida.

    nk (bb1548)

  190. You’re against Haley, and seemingly against DeSantis. Whom are you for? I know you’re not for Trump.

    Now that Larry Hogan has bowed out. I guess there is always John Kasich.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  191. At least Marianne Williamson might finally fund research into exorcism-resistant incubi and succubi that spread Covid. What is Trump’s or DeSantis’s position on that?

    nk (bb1548)

  192. @159 A better song and more accurate “He’s in the jail house now!”

    asset (e10d87)

  193. @180 the pedo picture with desatan at drinking orgy with under age girls when he was their high school teacher should do the trick. Trump had picture on truth social.

    asset (e10d87)

  194. Well, so much for that Clown Confederacy.

    There’s an argument that Trump/Lake is better than Biden/Harris. Not a strong one mind you, but it really should not be close.

    Out of 330 million people….

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  195. There’s an argument that Trump/Lake is better than Biden/Harris.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/5/2023 @ 9:40 pm

    You spelled crazier wrong.

    norcal (7345e5)

  196. There’s an argument the moon landing was staged.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  197. https://nypost.com/2023/03/05/new-emails-show-fauci-commissioned-paper-to-disprove-wuhan-lab-leak-theory

    Fauci needs to be put under oath with penalty of perjury. Want to bet he pulls the “I cannot recall” or pleads the 5th?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  198. https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2023/03/05/breaking-antifa-thugs-firebomb-atlanta-public-training-facility-construction-site-n1675877

    More leftist terrorism. How much will be ignored. How light will the penalties be if anyone is found.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  199. At present, Fulton County Georgia has the best chance of indicting Trump for something Janaury 6 related. The local Trump fans (including the Trumpy Lt Governor) have noticed and are hoping to do something about it.

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/the-jolt-trump-attacks-fani-willis-as-he-pushes-georgia-prosecutor-bills/RJ2JZS2TV5F25PLP22CXTQOOSQ/

    Keep your eye on this one. But understand that the bill that gets widely reported is probably not going to be what the governor actually signs.

    Appalled (17324d)

  200. 405. Well this is interesting, I;d like to have links to Fauci (falsely) claiming that he had nothing to do with the paper (and that that statement was false) and that he was niot acquainted with the authors, to see if that was so, (did he make those claims?)

    Sammy Finkelman (35fa6f)

  201. Rip,

    You’re against Haley, and seemingly against DeSantis. Whom are you for? I know you’re not for Trump.

    norcal (7345e5) — 3/5/2023 @ 5:15 pm

    Despite Kevin M’s presumption to answer for me, right now I would support Sununu, but he (and any other non-Trump or non-DeSantis candidate) will make it to the California primary.

    I really don’t have strong opinions about DeSantis, except his nanny statism.

    Rip Murdock (a0d2e4)

  202. Correction:

    Sununu, but he (and any other non-Trump or non-DeSantis candidate) will not make it to the California primary.

    Rip Murdock (a0d2e4)

  203. More on why you should read that essay on the 1619 Project, that I linked to, earlier.

    The unrelenting race-based reductionism of the 1619 Project is no small problem. College history professor Duke Pesta gave his students preliminary quizzes over 11 years to test their knowledge of American history. He found that most thought slavery was almost entirely an American phenomenon, and they could say virtually nothing about slavery outside America. Having taught secondary US history myself, including in a majority-black school, I can confirm that the 1619 Project only worsens this problem. It proceeds as if American students somehow know all the “regular” history already and can handle this “new perspective,” even if it is slanted. But the reality is just the opposite. American students are woefully deficient in their knowledge of history. And moreover, they often are not told that the 1619 Project is a very slanted perspective. Instead, they are taught that the regular textbooks are the products of white supremacist systems of oppression, whereas the 1619 Project represents “real history.”

    The College Fix piece, by Kate Hardiman, provides — for those with open minds — evidence that Thornett has reason to be concerned, about what is now often being omitted from the teaching of history in our high schools and colleges — anything positive about the United States.

    (It’s a minor point, but Hardiman describes Pesta as an English professor, not a history professor.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  204. On a very minor point: Are frog legs food for rich people, or poor people? In the United States, both. Some one who knows about who eats what in the United States would know that. But I wouldn’t expect a follower of Putin to know that.

    (Full disclosure: The one time I had frog legs they came from frogs gigged by a brother-in-law, who was definitely not rich at the time. As I recall, they weren’t bad, but not exceptional, either.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  205. The Economist magazine describes Putin’s policies as a “nightmare”, and a tragedy, for Russia:

    A demographic tragedy is unfolding in Russia. Over the past three years the country has lost around 2m more people than it would ordinarily have done, as a result of war, disease and exodus. The life expectancy of Russian males aged 15 fell by almost five years, to the same level as in Haiti. The number of Russians born in April 2022 was no higher than it had been in the months of Hitler’s occupation. And because so many men of fighting age are dead or in exile, women outnumber men by at least 10m.

    War is not the sole—or even the main—cause of these troubles but it has made them all worse. According to Western estimates, 175,000-200,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded over the past year (Russia’s own figures are lower). Somewhere between 500,000 and 1m mostly young, educated people have evaded the meat grinder by fleeing abroad. Even if Russia had no other demographic problems, losing so many in such a short time would be painful. As it is, the losses of war are placing more burdens on a shrinking, ailing population. Russia may be entering a doom loop of demographic decline.

    You can understand, given those numbers, why Putin is stealing Ukrainian children.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  206. Thousands of pro-Trump bots are attacking DeSantis, Haley

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Over the past 11 months, someone created thousands of fake, automated Twitter accounts — perhaps hundreds of thousands of them — to offer a stream of praise for Donald Trump.

    Besides posting adoring words about the former president, the fake accounts ridiculed Trump’s critics from both parties and attacked Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and U.N. ambassador who is challenging her onetime boss for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination.

    When it came to Ron DeSantis, the bots aggressively suggested that the Florida governor couldn’t beat Trump, but would be a great running mate.

    As Republican voters size up their candidates for 2024, whoever created the bot network is seeking to put a thumb on the scale, using online manipulation techniques pioneered by the Kremlin to sway the digital platform conversation about candidates while exploiting Twitter’s algorithms to maximize their reach.

    The sprawling bot network was uncovered by researchers at Cyabra, an Israeli tech firm that shared its findings with The Associated Press. While the identity of those behind the network of fake accounts is unknown, Cyabra’s analysts determined that it was likely created within the U.S.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  207. decrying that he should have given Democrats “a heads up.”

    He just did.

    He didn’t know that he was going to do it before now – he had not been paying any attention to the bill. It wasn’t a practical question, It needed at least one Dem vote (and it got a commitment – Manchin) to pass the Senate.

    The default is to side with Democrats in Congress.

    What Biden announced was that he would not veto the bill overriding the DC crime law.

    Biden is allied with New York mayor Erric Adams n the crime issue.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d095d)

  208. On a very minor point: Are frog legs food for rich people, or poor people?

    Are they on the menu of fast food restaurants in Utah; that’s the tell.

    DCSCA (3f00c7)

  209. NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/6/2023 @ 5:12 am

    Fauci lied, and Trump told the truth.

    Most here won’t care, cuz if they did their heads would explode.

    JF (f62025)

  210. JF —

    Take a look at Sammy’s 208. That NY Post article was intriguing but hardly determinative of much of anything.

    Appalled (0cd787)

  211. JF (f62025) — 3/6/2023 @ 12:41 pm

    Fauci lied, and Trump told the truth.

    Most here won’t care, cuz if they did their heads would explode.

    Not a problem, but I’d like to verify that Fauci lied about his non-involvement in the scientific paper.

    The folllowing from the New York Post is not a lie:

    “There was a study recently,” he told reporters on April 17, 2020, when asked if the virus could have come from a Chinese lab, “where a group of highly qualified evolutionary virologists looked at the sequences … in bats as they evolve and the mutations that it took to get to the point where it is now is totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human.

    “So, the paper will be available. I don’t have the authors right now, but we can make it available to you.”

    Well, maybe to implicitly claim they were impartial could be described as a lie, but a denial of involvment must come from elsewhere

    And Trump can’t ever tell the whole truth – he’ll throw in a lie or an exaggeration. Where is the truth that Trump told?

    Trump did tell the truth about having been told the coronavirus would not be a problem Bob Woodward tried to make him out to be a liar.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  212. New York Mayor Eric Adams cited Esther 4:14 as applying to himself.

    https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3304.htm

    14 For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then will relief and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place, but thou and thy father’s house will perish; and who knoweth whether thou art not come to royal estate for such a time as this?’

    That’s why he became mayor he says. (and then he segued into homelessness. Well, homelessness is caused by the fact that it costs too much to build because all of over the United States it is the policy to keep up the price of housing)

    But he doesn’t have the courage to split with the Democrats (on crime) – it’s just to influence Biden and some others. It’d not going to be enough.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  213. 211

    He found that most thought slavery was almost entirely an American phenomenon

    After about 1835, it was. It was called a peculiar institution. So reading about the ante-bellum period will not readily get you any mention of slavery elsewhere and earlier.

    Now it did exist in Moslem countries mainly and was tied to religion.

    It had survived in Islamic countries and contaminated the Atlantic seafaring countries – in their colonies at least.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  214. 178. DCSCA (eb9ac0) — 3/5/2023 @ 1:47 pm Would like to hear opinions on how Republicans expect to “win” the next POTUS cycle w/o MAGA supporters. Like Nixon did in 1968. He won the votes of Goldwater supporter without endorsing what they believed.

    The problem with MAGA people is they think they won and should control the party.

    And that many people do not trust anybody who doesn’t say out lous that Trump is lying about the election.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  215. “Under Brandenburg v. Ohio, speech lies outside the First Amendment only if it is ‘directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action…’”

    When said speech is in fact followed by immediate lawless action this test is far easier to meet.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/5/2023 @ 12:44 pm

    Here is a good example:

    A 26-year-old member of the far-right Proud Boys organization in Oregon was convicted this week of (10 of 11) felonies for his role in inciting and participating in a brawl during a “Patriot Rally” he helped organize in the summer of 2021.
    ……….
    During the gathering, prosecutors say Toese gave several speeches to incite the crowd to violence toward perceived members of Antifa, a loose affiliate left-wing group opposed to fascism and racism. Such statements included Toese saying, “When Antifa shows up, show them no mercy,” the release states.

    “When Antifa members showed up at the rally, members of the Proud Boys immediately attacked them,” according to prosecutors. “Toese and his group then engaged in an extended street brawl that included explosive devices, paintball guns, bats, and clubs.”

    ………Toese found a man he recognized sitting inside a parked car. He shouted, “He is Antifa,” before smashing out the car’s driver-side window with a baseball bat.

    “This action, along with Toese’s other statements, encouraged multiple Proud Boys to destroy the car and attack the victim for a prolonged period with multiple weapons,” prosecutors wrote. “Toese and his group also flipped over an Antifa support van.”

    The incident was caught on tape, and prosecutors say it showed Toese directing rallygoers to break the windows, slash the tires on the van, and attack the driver. After the occupants escaped the van and a brief assault, prosecutors say Toese then instructed rallygoers to return to the vehicle and said, “Boys, flip this (expletive) over so they don’t get to drive this (expletive) home.”
    ……..
    “Due to Mr. Toese’s long-term involvement in violent activity, the state is seeking enhancements to increase Mr. Toese’s sentence above the mandatory minimum sentence of 70 months in prison,” (Senior Deputy District Attorney Nathan Vasquez, the lead prosecutor in the case) said following the verdict.

    Toese has a history of inciting violence at political rallies, prosecutors say. …….
    ……..

    “Tiny” Toese was found guilty of two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of third-degree assault, two counts of unlawful use of a weapon, two counts of rioting, and two counts of first-degree criminal mischief. He was acquitted of one count of second degree assault.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  216. 15.

    apologizing for…. hands up don’t shoot

    That’s going to be hard with many people still believing it. Obama’s DOJ said this was not true, but he buried the news.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  217. Bloggers lobby the public more than they do legislators.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  218. RIP Garry Rossington (71). Founding and last surviving original member of Lynryd Skynyrd.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  219. #221 Sammy, please read this time line, starting in 1834.

    (For the record: By 1834, slavery ahd been abolished in most of the United States.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  220. Even the leftwing media is starting to get on board with the obvious that Fauci lied and covered up his lies.

    NJRob (b8f687)

  221. Just to be specific, what do you believe Fauci lied about? And do you believe he is guilty of something criminal? Is Fauci’s lies more significant than Trump’s lies about the election?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  222. PRRI Poll: A Christian Nation? Understanding the Threat of Christian Nationalism to American Democracy and Culture
    ……..
    To measure Christian nationalism, the PRRI/Brookings Christian Nationalism Survey included a battery of five questions about the relationship between Christianity, American identity, and the U.S. government. Respondents were asked whether they completely agree, mostly agree, mostly disagree, or completely disagree with each of the following statements:

    The U.S. government should declare America a Christian nation.
    U.S. laws should be based on Christian values.
    If the U.S. moves away from our Christian foundations, we will not have a country anymore.
    Being Christian is an important part of being truly American.
    God has called Christians to exercise dominion over all areas of American society.

    ……..
    Each respondent is given a composite score based on their answers to the five questions and is then assigned into one of four key groups:

    Christian Nationalism Adherents (Score 0.75–1): These Americans overwhelmingly either agree or completely agree with the statement in the scale. This group includes 10% of Americans.

    Christian Nationalism Sympathizers (Score 0.5–0.74): A majority of these Americans agree with the statements in the scale but they are less likely than adherents to completely agree. This group includes 19% of Americans.

    Christian Nationalism Skeptics (Score 0.01-0.49): A majority of these Americans disagree with the statements in the scale but are less likely than rejecters to completely disagree. This group includes 39% of Americans.

    Christian Nationalism Rejecters (Score 0): These Americans completely disagree with all 5 statements in the scale. This group includes 29% of Americans.

    White evangelical Protestants are more supportive of Christian nationalism than any other group surveyed. Nearly two-thirds of white evangelical Protestants qualify as either Christian nationalism sympathizers (35%) or adherents (29%). …….

    At the other end of the spectrum, more than three-quarters of Hispanic Catholics, other non-Christian religious Americans, Jews, and religiously unaffiliated Americans qualify as either Christian nationalism skeptics or rejecters. …….
    ………
    Identifying as evangelical or born-again is positively correlated with holding Christian nationalist views across racial and ethnic lines. White (29%), Hispanic (25%), and Black (20%) Christians who identify as born-again or evangelical are each about five times as likely to be Christian nationalism adherents as members of the same racial or ethnic groups who identify as Christian but not evangelical (6% of white non-evangelicals, 4% of Black non-evangelicals, and 4% of Hispanic non-evangelicals).

    Partisanship is closely linked to Christian nationalist views. Most Republicans qualify as either Christian nationalism sympathizers (33%) or adherents (21%), while at least three-quarters of both independents (46% skeptics and 29% rejecters) and Democrats (36% skeptics and 47% rejecters) lean toward rejecting Christian nationalism. Republicans (21%) are about four times as likely as Democrats (5%) or independents (6%) to be adherents of Christian nationalism.

    ……..More than 7 in 10 Christian nationalism adherents (71%) have a favorable view of Trump, including 43% who hold very favorable views of him. A majority of Christian nationalism sympathizers also hold favorable views of Trump (57%), compared to 29% of skeptics, and 8% of rejecters.
    ……….
    Christian nationalism adherents overwhelmingly express a preference for a primarily Christian nation (77%, including 59% who believe this strongly). A majority of Christian nationalism sympathizers (55%) also say they would prefer a primarily Christian nation, though they are less likely than adherents to strongly favor the idea (29%).
    ………
    Anti-Black Racism

    Only about one-third of Americans (32%) disagree that white supremacy is still a major problem in the U.S. today, compared to 65% who agree. However, majorities of Christian nationalism sympathizers (53%) and adherents (57%) disagree that white supremacy remains a problem. Among Christian nationalism sympathizers and adherents who are white, disagreement rises to nearly two thirds (64% and 66%, respectively).
    ……..
    Anti-Immigrant Views

    Americans who are supportive of Christian nationalism generally hold less favorable views of immigrants. Among Americans overall, only 32% affirm the core tenet of so-called “replacement theory,” the belief that immigrants are “invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background,” while 67% disagree. However, 57% of Christian nationalism sympathizers and 71% of adherents agree with this assertion of replacement theory. Among Christian nationalism sympathizers and adherents who are white, belief in replacement theory rises to 66% and 81%, respectively.
    ……..
    Antisemitic Views

    Fourteen percent of Americans say that the statement “Jewish people hold too many positions of power” somewhat or completely describes the United States today, while 82% say it describes the U.S. a little or not at all, including 67% who say it does not describe the country at all. The share who believe this antisemitic stereotype rises to 19% among Christian nationalism sympathizers and 23% among Christian nationalism adherents.
    ……..
    Anti-Muslim Views

    About three in ten Americans (29%) agree that we should prevent people from some majority Muslim countries from entering the United States, while two-thirds disagree (68%). Around half of Christian nationalism sympathizers (49%) and two-thirds of adherents (67%) agree. Among Christian nationalism sympathizers and adherents who are white, agreement rises to 52% and 72%, respectively.
    ……..
    Gender and the Patriarchy

    One-third of Americans (33%) agree that “in a truly Christian family, the husband is the head of the household, and his wife submits to his leadership,” while 64% disagree. Roughly half of Christian nationalism sympathizers (51%) and nearly seven in ten adherents (69%) agree with this statement. Among Christian nationalism sympathizers and adherents who are white, affirmation of hierarchical gender roles is slightly lower, at 45% and 65%, respectively.
    ………

    Authoritarianism

    Supporters of Christian nationalism tend to support obedience to authority and the idea of authoritarian leaders who are willing to break the rules. While half of Americans (50%) agree that society is in trouble because people do not obey authority, this number rises to 69% among Christian nationalism sympathizers and 74% among Christian nationalism adherents.
    ………

    Support for Political Violence

    Only 16% of Americans agree with the statement “Because things have gotten so far off track, true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country,” while the overwhelming majority of Americans (81%) disagree.

    Christian nationalism adherents are nearly seven times as likely as Christian nationalism rejecters to support political violence. Four in ten Christian nationalism adherents (40%) agree with this statement about patriots resorting to violence, compared to only 22% of sympathizers, 15% of skeptics, and 6% of rejecters. ……..
    ……….
    Nearly six in ten QAnon believers are also either Christian nationalism sympathizers (29%) or adherents (29%), compared to 31% who are Christian nationalism skeptics and 10% who are rejecters. The relationship between QAnon beliefs and Christian nationalism is even stronger among white Americans. Among white QAnon believers, 31% are Christian nationalism sympathizers and 34% are adherents. On the flipside, nine in ten QAnon rejecters are either Christian nationalism skeptics (37%) or rejecters (53%).
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  223. Quinnipiac University California Poll-3/1/23

    Asked to choose the most urgent issue facing California today, 22 percent say homelessness followed by affordable housing (17 percent) and inflation (10 percent)…….. No other issue reached double digits.
    ………
    Eighty-four percent of voters think homelessness in California is a very serious problem, while 14 percent think it is a somewhat serious problem, 2 percent think it is not a very serious problem, and 1 percent think it is not a problem at all.

    Nearly 7 out of 10 voters (69 percent) think California is doing too little to help homeless people, while 14 percent think it is doing too much and 11 percent think California is doing about the right amount to help homeless people.

    Voters say 82 – 14 percent that there is a housing crisis in California, up from 78 – 15 percent in a Quinnipiac University poll in July 2019.

    Forty percent of voters describe the state of California’s economy these days as either excellent (6 percent) or good (34 percent), while 59 percent describe it as either not so good (28 percent) or poor (31 percent).
    ………
    Voters say 53 – 45 percent that they feel like they can afford to live in California.
    ………..
    Voters support 58 – 39 percent stricter gun laws in California.
    ………
    Voters think 66 – 31 percent that the state should set limits on where people can carry guns in public.
    ………
    Among those who do not own a gun, 25 percent say they are considering acquiring one.
    ……..
    Voters say 70 – 22 percent they would not like to see Governor Gavin Newsom run for president in 2024.
    ……..
    Voters are split on the way Gavin Newsom is handling his job as governor, with 44 percent approving and 43 percent disapproving. Thirteen percent did not offer an opinion. This compares to July 2019 when 39 percent approved, 38 percent disapproved, and 24 percent did not offer an opinion.

    Voters give Senator Dianne Feinstein a negative 37 – 44 percent job approval rating, with 19 percent not offering an opinion. This compares to a 41 – 41 percent job approval rating, with 18 percent not offering an opinion in July 2019.
    ……….
    They give Vice President Kamala Harris a negative 42 – 48 percent job approval rating.

    Voters give U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy a negative 33 – 48 percent job approval rating, with 19 percent not offering an opinion.
    ……..

    Questions and responses at link.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  224. Fauci lied, and Trump told the truth.

    Most here won’t care, cuz if they did their heads would explode.

    JF (f62025) — 3/6/2023 @ 12:41 pm

    Do you really believe that? If you do, I would suggest that you’re projecting your own tribalistic thinking onto most of the people here.

    norcal (7345e5)

  225. Nearly 7 out of 10 voters (69 percent) think California is doing too little to help homeless people, while 14 percent think it is doing too much and 11 percent think California is doing about the right amount to help homeless people.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/6/2023 @ 3:26 pm

    I wonder what percent would be okay with their taxes being raised to “help” homeless people. I’m guessing something less than 69%.

    norcal (7345e5)

  226. Just to be specific, what do you believe Fauci lied about? And do you believe he is guilty of something criminal? Is Fauci’s lies more significant than Trump’s lies about the election?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 3/6/2023 @ 3:08 pm

    You’re trying to distract from Fauci’s lies and change the topic. No thanks. Not playing.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  227. Trump’s lies come so thick and fast, you forget the one he told fifteen minutes ago because there have been fourteen more since.

    nk (bb1548)

  228. Nearly 7 out of 10 voters (69 percent) think California is doing too little to help homeless people, while 14 percent think it is doing too much and 11 percent think California is doing about the right amount to help homeless people.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/6/2023 @ 3:26 pm

    I wonder what percent would be okay with their taxes being raised to “help” homeless people. I’m guessing something less than 69%.

    norcal (7345e5) — 3/6/2023 @ 3:36 pm

    No doubt they are-between 2018 and 2021 the State has spent $10 billion on the homeless crisis, 55% of that on housing, yet the problem continues to grow. In the draft state budget there is another $5 billion. But the fact is that cities smaller than Los Angeles, Long Beach, or San Francisco don’t want to the spend the money (or change zoning laws) to develop affordable housing. They would rather ship their problems to other cities (which they have done).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  229. Trump’s lies come so thick and fast, you forget the one he told fifteen minutes ago because there have been fourteen more since.

    nk (bb1548) — 3/6/2023 @ 4:06 pm

    A target rich environment.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  230. On the lam:

    ……..
    According to a warrant issued for her arrest, court officials have not been able to locate defendant Olivia Pollock since late February. The government’s search for Pollock was largely kept under wraps until she did not show up for her trial.

    “Trial in this matter was scheduled for March 6, 2023, at 9:00 AM,” District Judge Carl Nichols wrote in an order. “Defendant Olivia Pollock failed to appear.” Nichols ruled that as a result, the trial would proceed with two of Pollock’s codefendants and she would be tried separately.
    ………
    An arrest warrant for another of Pollock’s codefendants, Joseph Hutchinson, was also unsealed on Monday. Nichols previously ruled that Hutchinson, who is representing himself, would be tried separately from other codefendants and he is not scheduled to begin his trial until later this year.

    Both Hutchinson and Olivia Pollock were not being held in jail before their trials – Hutchinson was on home detention, and Pollock was subject to GPS monitoring.
    ………..

    Olivia Pollack, Jonathan Pollack, and Joseph Hutchinson (and others) are part of an indictment for:

    Assaulting, Resisting or Impeding Certain Officers or Employees

    Theft of Government Property

    Restricted Building or Grounds without Lawful Authority

    Violent Entry and Disorderly Conduct on Capitol Grounds

    Complaint

    Indictment

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  231. @234, Rob you frequently complain that topics you think are important don’t get discussed here. But in this case AJ is asking you to expand on your claim about fauci lying and asked if you think he committed crimes yet you dismiss his question. Weird.

    Time123 (c33a8f)

  232. Rip, interesting link on Christian nationalism. Thank you.

    Time123 (c33a8f)

  233. I have no interest in turning the discussion into Trump did this or Trump did that. The relevant information coming out is about Fauci and the way he got others to lie, used those lies to support his big lie and then funded those who lied for him.

    Thanks for playing.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  234. Keeping it classy:

    Rep. Ronny Jackson (R-Texas) couldn’t spare a kind word for President Joe Biden even when talking about his recent cancer diagnosis.

    Instead, Jackson lamented that a cancerous lesion had been removed from the president’s chest.

    “Biden is the cancer,” Jackson said on Fox News on Sunday. “He’s what needs to be removed, not the lesion they found.”
    ………
    Even by those standards, Jackson’s critics said he went beyond the pale with his cancer comments:
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  235. https://www.outkick.com/novak-djokovic-forced-withdraw-indian-wells-united-states-entry-denied/

    Yet if he was one of the millions of illegal aliens that Biden has welcomed to invade our country, there wouldn’t be an issue…

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  236. Trump himself has said that Ronny Jackson has the hots for him. “He couldn’t take his eyes off my strong and powerful body”, Trump said. So we can’t expect Jackson to have anything good to say about the man who crushed his crush.

    nk (bb1548)

  237. So Djokovic is an anti-vaxxer. I didn’t know that. I had thought that the Australian kerfuffle last year was a failure of communication.

    And his father is pro-Putin. It’s just as well that he wasn’t allowed in. America First!

    nk (bb1548)

  238. I wonder what percent would be okay with their taxes being raised to “help” homeless people. I’m guessing something less than 69%.

    Possibly, but they’d be OK with YOUR taxes being raised to help the homeless.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  239. Fauci lied, and Trump told the truth.

    Fauci may well have lied, but if Trump told the truth it was by accident.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  240. Be proud, all of you supporters of the Jan-6 lies!

    Sunlight is the Great Disinfectant.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  241. The thing about lying is that it’s contagious:

    23 face domestic terrorism charges after arrests in ‘Cop City’ protests at planned police training site in Atlanta

    Atlanta (CNN) — Police say at least 23 people will face domestic terrorism charges after they were arrested Sunday amid violent protests at the site of a planned law enforcement training facility in Atlanta dubbed “Cop City” by opponents who claim it would propagate militarized policing and harm the environment.

    nk (bb1548)

  242. Georgia rethugliKKKans just passed law that they can fire any prosecutor who investigates trump or them! Gov. wii sign into law.

    asset (ca558d)

  243. Asset gets his information from DU and other twisted places. It’s much like others who think Gateway Pundit is a quotable source.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  244. Castro did this first:

    Xi blames USA for constricting China’s economy

    Chinese leader Xi Jinping issued an unusually blunt rebuke of U.S. policy on Monday, blaming what he termed a Washington-led campaign to suppress China for recent challenges facing his country.

    “Western countries—led by the U.S.—have implemented all-round containment, encirclement and suppression against us, bringing unprecedentedly severe challenges to our country’s development,” Mr. Xi was quoted by state media as saying on Monday.

    Mr. Xi’s comments marked an unusual departure for a leader who has generally refrained from directly criticizing the U.S. in public remarks—even as his decadelong leadership has demonstrated a pessimistic view of the bilateral relationship.

    The accusation of U.S. suppression of China’s development over the past five years comes as Mr. Xi faces charges from investors that China’s economy has been damaged by his policies, including the emphasis on national security.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  245. the chicoms must be well aware by now that they can kill millions and influence an election by releasing a deadly pathogen, and there will be American government officials, politicians, journalists, tech giants, media members and commenters in blogs who will help them cover their tracks

    JF (cf111d)

  246. More on China’s perfidy in a brand-new post I just put up.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  247. You’re trying to distract from Fauci’s lies and change the topic. No thanks. Not playing.

    AJ’s first two questions were specifically about Fauci, Rob, which were…

    Just to be specific, what do you believe Fauci lied about?
    And do you believe he is guilty of something criminal?

    If you’re going to make the assertion, at least be man enough to answer a couple questions.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  248. Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/6/2023 @ 8:01 pm

    I mean, for starters it’s in the first three paragraphs of NJRob’s link, which you weren’t man enough to read.

    Won’t paste it for you. Be a man and read the whole thing, Montagu.

    JF (cf111d)

  249. @252 NYT article The new laws could be used to remove prosecutor investigating trump or legislators. It does other things ;but can be used for this.

    asset (ca558d)

  250. I read it, JF. If Fauci wrongly believed that the virus didn’t leak from the lab, then it means he was wrong, not necessarily a liar. This is akin to the “Bush lied, people died” mantra that the Left employed after the Iraq invasion. By all accounts, the White House believed that Saddam had WMDs. Bush’s own CIA Director said it was a “slam dunk”.

    The other part of the question, whether the virus was genetically manipulated and a potential bioweapon, the WSJ reported this

    Despite the agencies’ differing analyses, the update reaffirmed an existing consensus between them that Covid-19 wasn’t the result of a Chinese biological-weapons program, the people who have read the classified report said.

    But maybe Rob should answer the questions put to him instead of you running interference.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  251. Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/6/2023 @ 9:12 pm

    LOL that wasn’t the lie.

    You weren’t man enough to read the link.

    JF (cf111d)

  252. Point out the lie, JF.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  253. @259 by all accounts? See the movie fair game. Scooter libby said 1% chance is good enough the other 99% who cares. Remember what amb. wilson wrote “what I did not find in niger”. Bush and cheney and all the presidents men lied ( I think a movie with that title exists ) people died. Their is plenty more evidence like aluminum tubes lies. They wanted to go to war with iraq evidence to the contrary be damned! On 9-11 they wanted to attack iraq the national security advisor said no mr. president it was bin ladin in afganistan. Rumsfeld said There are no good targets in afganistan!

    asset (ca558d)

  254. Bush and cheney and all the presidents men lied

    The Democrat-led Senate went through the whole thing in their and, on most points, the assertions were “generally substantiated by the intelligence”.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  255. @263 Most democrats in senate voted for the war. “Most” “Generally” weasel words. They don’t want to be primaried over the war. It cost Hillary Clinton the nomination in 2008 and the presidency in 2016. Kerry in 2004. To bad it didn’t cost biden in 2020. I gave two examples that were known lies at the time their are more. His code name was cureball for a reason. Would you please give the points and assertions that were substantiated by intelligence. Please. Colin Powell later said he tried to be a good soldier and knew their was no real intelligence.

    asset (ca558d)

  256. I mean, for starters it’s in the first three paragraphs of NJRob’s link, which you weren’t man enough to read.

    Let me explain something: Links are for backup, not for the story itself. If you expect people to follow links to some other place, offered by someone who won’t say what it’s about and whom one generally disagrees with, you are going to be forever disappointed.

    Just posting the link is lazy and puts the work on other people. Don’t be surprised when they don’t jump through your hoops.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  257. You weren’t man enough to read the link.

    Someone wasn’t man enough to cut and paste from the link.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  258. @252 NYT article The new laws could be used to remove prosecutor investigating trump or legislators. It does other things ;but can be used for this.

    If that’s the NYT’s takeaway then whoever wrote that is an idiot.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  259. “Glory to Ukraine”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  260. “J6 is going to fall apart just like the Sicknick blood libel and Russian collusion.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  261. “Things the red states knew years ago; things the blue states are just now being allowed to know:
    Russia, Russia was a deep state conspiracy against Trump.
    J6 was not a violent riot
    Covid came from a lab in Wuhan
    Lockdowns and masks do not make us safer
    Hunter Biden’s laptop shows corruption in the Biden family.
    John Fetterman was too unwell undertake a campaign and this was obvious when he ran.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  262. The first time Lyin’ Don Jon Tr’mp said “Chinese virus” was on March 16, 2020. On February 1, 2020 when his underling and front-man Anthony Fauci did whatever he did, the mandarin orange was still negotiating beautiful trade deals with China.

    nk (bb1548)

  263. I think the Covid origin investigation is important because it has implications on how best to avoid the next pandemic. However, an authoritarian regime like China gives us little hope that we will have a definitive answer, as they will obfuscate and point fingers to avoid any accountability. If it was in fact man-made, we will then also not know if there was any intentionality in its release. So at this point, we probably have to push forward with both greater care with human/animal interactions and insisting on greater care at research facilities through international organizations.

    We need to anticipate future outbreaks better, have a good stockpile of PPE, and get the best protocols in place understanding situations and data are dynamic. We also need to understand that there will always be some contrarians that will disagree with those protocols and there will always be people who will take advantage of the uncertainty for financial benefit.

    Our best and brightest scientists and data analysts should objectively craft policy options that our leaders apply cost/benefit analyses to and openly report to the people. We need to recognize that there will always be the temptation to politicize the science.

    People love scapegoats, especially when problems are hard and costs are high. People also love to market conspiracies because it takes it out of the realm of science, which few are truly qualified to assess, into the realm of human behavior where everyone can have an opinion….and do. Should I care if a politician guessed early about the origin and trumpeted that opinion about? I’m not sure why, except for its irresponsibility when it is premature and not fact based. I want grown-ups in charge. That should be what the 2024 campaign ought to be about.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  264. In NJ the law protects criminals and not victims. These laws were passed by leftist legislators. But keep pretending to be above it all.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  265. Kevin,

    if you couldn’t figure out what the link was about from the title or you are so sheltered that you haven’t seen the issue posted elsewhere, then you’re in a leftist bubble.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  266. Fair trial or show trial?
    NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/7/2023 @ 6:15 am

    I think we should’ve waited for the J6 committee to do the reveal on this LOL

    JF (cf111d)

  267. Except that there was not just one shaman and several cops guiding him. There was one shaman and a whole bunch of other insurrectionists and just a couple or three cops keeping an eye on them.

    Can you say “deceptively edited”?
    How about “Faux News”?
    How about “lying sacks of sh!t throwing red meat to morons for fun and profit”?

    nk (bb1548)

  268. Would you please give the points and assertions that were substantiated by intelligence.

    Here’s a summary, asset, and Hiatt gave a fair reading of the report, which I read in detail 15 years ago, and I’ve no interest in re-litigating 15-20 year old arguments.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  269. Nk,

    you’re really good at name calling lately. Where are the substantial arguments you used to have?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  270. @259

    I read it, JF. If Fauci wrongly believed that the virus didn’t leak from the lab, then it means he was wrong, not necessarily a liar. This is akin to the “Bush lied, people died” mantra that the Left employed after the Iraq invasion. By all accounts, the White House believed that Saddam had WMDs. Bush’s own CIA Director said it was a “slam dunk”.

    I’m not so charitable as you.

    As a public heath official, one defining characteristic we should demand is that they adapt the policies as the understanding changes over time.

    The health officials, namely Fauci, failed miserably.

    But, for Fauci, this smacks of a massive CYA to create distance for him and NIH from the gain-of-function research, rather than some good faith recommendations with the information at hand.

    So, in short, yeah I’d argue that Fauci lied to cover is ass and it’s obvious to anyone who’s taken the time to review the evidence and the timeline.

    whembly (d116f3)

  271. So, no actual pointing out the lie, just the same “Bush lied, people lied” mentality, only this time applied by Trumpists. That horseshoe shaped political spectrum again rears that ugly head.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  272. BTW, Mr. Chansley pled guilty to obstructing a proceeding of Congress and was sentenced to 41 months in prison. He was already a criminal, rioter and lawbreaker when Carlson showed that footage.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  273. Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 6:47 am

    yeah, it’s just like that Montagu LOL

    I won’t paste Rob’s link, since you refuse to read it

    Here’s a different link to pierce your bubble:

    MEGHAN MCCAIN: Surely even the lapdog media can’t ignore bombshell evidence Saint Anthony lied to America about COVID’s origins. Haul Fauci before Congress and demand answers!

    JF (cf111d)

  274. nk (bb1548) — 3/7/2023 @ 6:32 am

    “we used to be friends here” LOL

    JF (cf111d)

  275. @277

    Can you say “deceptively edited”?
    How about “Faux News”?
    How about “lying sacks of sh!t throwing red meat to morons for fun and profit”?

    nk (bb1548) — 3/7/2023 @ 6:32 am

    Can you say “I didn’t watch the video for fear of confronting my previously held belief”?

    Whatever you may think of J6, or FoxNews, or Tucker… put that in your back pocket and simply watch the video Tucker presented.

    The J6 narrative of the day really doesn’t align with what was shown on the video.

    OR – I can concede your premise. Okay, lets say all of that is true.

    Ok?

    Then please explain the part the Capital Police was literally escorting Chancley all over the place peacefully. Not in handcuff or in obvious restricted “under arrest”. Because the video looked like it was BEFORE Chancley was able to access the Senate podium in that famous photo shot we’ve seen since J6. (if it was after, then yes it’s an out of sequence edit. If that’s your argument, what’s your evidence?).

    This looks more of that naked opportunism by Democrats and anti-Trump/MAGA to stretch the truth into falsehoods.

    Which is sad, because its going to feed into the mindset that Democrats and anti-Trump/MAGA are unfairly abusing Government powers, rather than some honest depiction of the events that occurred and honest accountability.

    I don’t think folks on both sides of this event is ever going to reconcile.

    I’m to the point that the next GOP Potus simply needs to issue a blanket pardon to BOTH the J6ers and a pardon for government officials from future abuse of power lawsuits, simply to get this country to move on.

    whembly (d116f3)

  276. you’re really good at name calling lately. Where are the substantial arguments you used to have?

    In this particular instance, in the four lines above the name-calling.

    And I’ll tell you something else — for MAGA to complain about name-calling is for Z Nation to complain about bad table manners.

    nk (bb1548)

  277. Agreed whembly.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  278. There’s a CBS television show that is set in Portland, Oregon – in an alternate universe (So Help Me Todd – Thursdays at 9 pm Eastern)

    Sammy Finkelman (4d095d)

  279. @282

    BTW, Mr. Chansley pled guilty to obstructing a proceeding of Congress and was sentenced to 41 months in prison. He was already a criminal, rioter and lawbreaker when Carlson showed that footage.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 6:50 am

    Keep in mind that Chansely didn’t go to trial.

    He was facing the entire might of the DOJ, totally animated to maximize the conviction. People take the plea deals all the time to avoid the unknowns of a trial. It’s easy to see why someone in Chansley position woudn’t think they’d get a better outcome when faced with the DOJ, unfavorable jury pool, and unfavorably daily drum-beat of the media.

    But, that doesn’t mean we cannot question the events.

    whembly (d116f3)

  280. whembly, Fauci’s role in gain of function is not so clear-cut, but he didn’t do any favors for himself by his eagerness to appear on camera, along with his flip-flop on masks in early April 2020 and his comments later in 2020 about what percentage of the population achieved herd immunity, and so forth. Trump would’ve been much better recruiting a Republican like Scott Gottlieb to speak for his administration.

    Most of Fauci’s comments were on the side of caution, excessively so in some cases, but at the same time, it was called a novel coronavirus for a reason, and the scientific community was trying to figure it out. Also this, it was a political environmental where Fauci’s boss lied about the seriousness of the virus and downtalked its seriousness, who jumped on one unproven remedy after another, and totally botched testing in the critical early stages, so talk about mixed messaging. There’s a reason why the US is 13th worst on earth in deaths per million (not counting countries fewer than 1 million), and it’s the same reason why a doddering basement-dwelling Democrat beat him.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  281. Keep in mind that Chansely didn’t go to trial.

    I trust that his lawyer knew what he was doing, whembly. The visual evidence that he was illegally inside the Capitol Building during an historic riot is incontrovertible, and he was already criminally inside the building when encountering law enforcement. This was no “tourist”, as Carlson was trying to spin it.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  282. @290

    whembly, Fauci’s role in gain of function is not so clear-cut, but he didn’t do any favors for himself by his eagerness to appear on camera, along with his flip-flop on masks in early April 2020 and his comments later in 2020 about what percentage of the population achieved herd immunity, and so forth. Trump would’ve been much better recruiting a Republican like Scott Gottlieb to speak for his administration.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 7:31 am

    I don’t care about Trump.

    I care about Fauci’s own behavior and I’m more in the camp that he mislead in a CYA than being just “wrong” on this issue.

    Fauci also has power over funding grants to the same researchers who wrote those papers. His position gave him outsized influence, such that it may not show up in black and white text to be FOIA’ed, but it’s obvious here that there’s a power dynamic here that Fauci could leverage to his desired outcome.

    whembly (d116f3)

  283. Keep in mind that Chansley was not charged on the basis of the Carlton clip. He was charged on the totality of the evidence. Every bit of it available to him and his attorneys and to the court.

    nk (bb1548)

  284. “BTW, Mr. Chansley pled guilty to obstructing a proceeding of Congress and was sentenced to 41 months in prison. He was already a criminal, rioter and lawbreaker when Carlson showed that footage.”

    “The most disturbing thing revealed by these video disclosures is not seen in the footage, but in the willingness — indeed, the zealotry — of entire federal machinery, including the judiciary, to railroad Chansley and others.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  285. @291

    Keep in mind that Chansely didn’t go to trial.

    I trust that his lawyer knew what he was doing, whembly.

    Irrelevent. Defense lawyers get/does thing wrong all the time.

    The visual evidence that he was illegally inside the Capitol Building during an historic riot is incontrovertible, and he was already criminally inside the building when encountering law enforcement. This was no “tourist”, as Carlson was trying to spin it.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 7:42 am

    So far, I see Chansley liable for criminal trespass.

    If you want to argue that his actions amounted to obstruct of congress, I’ll concede to that, but I think it’s a bs application. It would be applicable for someone who tried/or did bomb Congress or tried to shoot up the place.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_Senate_bombing#:~:text=On%20November%207%2C%201983%2C%20the,adjacent%20halls%20were%20virtually%20deserted.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_United_States_Capitol_shooting

    But a “historic riot” that amounted to an “insurrection”? Yeah, not buying it.

    But, again, you haven’t adequately acknowledge the strangest thing in that Tucker video: Why was he seemingly be escorted by the policy in “touristy” manner?

    Do you not find that odd at all?

    whembly (d116f3)

  286. @293

    Keep in mind that Chansley was not charged on the basis of the Carlton clip. He was charged on the totality of the evidence. Every bit of it available to him and his attorneys and to the court.

    nk (bb1548) — 3/7/2023 @ 7:50 am

    We don’t know what was the evidence.

    Nor do we know if the DOJ even got ALL of the video evidence from Congress…right? Do we know that for sure???

    whembly (d116f3)

  287. “Apparently, if Buffalo Shaman had had enough money to pay lawyers to look through the 16,000 hours of tape, he could have found that footage himself, since he did have a right to discovery, but the prosecutors didn’t offer this evidence to him as potentially exculpatory, and he didn’t have the money to pay to have the footage combed through.”

    When I read lawyers excusing this crap… wtf is wrong with these people!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  288. “Now let us step back from this construct for a moment. With 40,000 hours of footage, did the Democrat Progressive Liberals really think they could keep it locked up in secret, forever?

    Of course they didn’t. They are the ultimate, cynical pragmatists. They knew it would eventually coming into the sunlight, and the trick was to manage the glide path to ‘eventually’.

    You’ll notice that there is protest, but not scorched earth protest. This is token resistance. The ploy has served its purpose.

    You see what you can accomplish when the captured Press is not only your ally, but also your pet? The other thing to notice: It is possible to make enough noise to disrupt that controlled-crash glide path. Imagine what would have happened if this video had been released a year ago.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  289. I won’t paste Rob’s link, since you refuse to read it

    I already addressed the issue McCain raised, JF. Wait, so you like McCain now? Basically, Fauci is guilty of the same stovepiping that VP Cheney was involved in, hence my Iraq War comment.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  290. How was the storming of the Capitol, right at the moment when the transfer of power was at its most vulnerable stage, not an historic riot?

    I don’t really care that the footage was released, but I do care that it was exclusively put in the hands of a partisan who’s tried to sanitize and whitewash the mob violence since the day it happened.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  291. We don’t know what was the evidence.

    It is not “our” province to know

    Nor do we know if the DOJ even got ALL of the video evidence from Congress…right? Do we know that for sure???

    Same answer. Who cares what we know? We are neither the judge nor jury. And there other kinds of evidence besides video. Like witnesses, for instance.

    I guarantee you one thing: All the video, exculpatory or not, that the government was going to use in court had to be turned over to the defense. In advance. And a list of all the witnesses the government was going to call, and any record of any statements of those witnesses in the prosecution’s possession.

    nk (bb1548)

  292. @320

    We don’t know what was the evidence.

    It is not “our” province to know

    Yeah, fair enough.

    Nor do we know if the DOJ even got ALL of the video evidence from Congress…right? Do we know that for sure???

    Same answer. Who cares what we know? We are neither the judge nor jury. And there other kinds of evidence besides video. Like witnesses, for instance.

    I care, because it’s not clear to me that Congress released all the videos to DOJ, and thus to Defendant. If the Democrats tactically release the most unflattering videos to the DOJ, then the DOJ is going to have what it has, and then the defense. There’s no recourse for Denfense (nor DOJ) to go back to Congress and force them to turn over ALL of the videos…right? (some separation of powers argument??)

    I guarantee you one thing: All the video, exculpatory or not, that the government was going to use in court had to be turned over to the defense. In advance. And a list of all the witnesses the government was going to call, and any record of any statements of those witnesses in the prosecution’s possession.

    nk (bb1548) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:29 am

    Question for you about exculpatory evidence. The DOJ/prosecution isn’t required nor obligated to find any… right? They would be compliance with Brady if they gave access to the defense all of the videos DOJ has…right? Then, its up to the defense to find and advance the exculpatory premise. Right?

    whembly (d116f3)

  293. @302

    How was the storming of the Capitol, right at the moment when the transfer of power was at its most vulnerable stage, not an historic riot?

    I don’t really care that the footage was released, but I do care that it was exclusively put in the hands of a partisan who’s tried to sanitize and whitewash the mob violence since the day it happened.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:27 am

    IF that’s how you feel, then you should be mad at Pelosi kicking off the McCarthy-picked GOPers for the J6 committee and installing NeverTrumper GOPers.

    The J6 Committee never cared about discovering what actually happened.

    Anyone who ever believed otherwise is hopelessly gullible.

    whembly (d116f3)

  294. Haiku,

    Partisans gonna partisan.

    NJRob (857496)

  295. The other sickening thing that came out, is that not only did Democrats/J6 committee have access to these video records from the get go, the records show that they viewed the video of Sicknick obviously alive on J6, so they knew the claims of his murder were a blatant lie. And they continued to peddle those lies anyway.
    https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1632915940399624199

    It was all about maintaining their preferred partisan narrative.

    whembly (d116f3)

  296. Since we know from the information produced in the Dominion suite that Tucker will knowingly lie to his audience I’m not sure why anyone is paying attention to what he’s releasing.

    It’s propaganda for the crowd that to this day doesn’t care that hundreds of Trump supporters violently attacked the police and took control of the US capital in hopes of preventing the peaceful transfer of power to the lawful winner of the election.

    This gives people like that some fuel to pretend that this didn’t happen or that their side isn’t being treated fairly enough, despite the many many plea barging for trespassing that have generously been given out. Despite the fact that most defendants (rightfully) got bail and fair release terms.

    There’s little point in worrying about convincing people who are only motivated to find an excuse to justify what happened so their ‘tribe’ doesn’t have to acknowledge what happened.

    I saw the comment up thread about pardons. I could get behind that if not for the fact that Trump, and his supporters continue to lie about the election, continue to lie about Jan 6, and continue to place less importance on an attempt to steal the US presidency then they do partisan advantage. So long as that’s the case I see little reasons to move on.

    Time123 (10316a)

  297. https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1347523522155978752

    @Liz_Cheney
    My deepest sympathies for the family of U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. Officer Sicknick was killed defending our Capitol from the violent mob on January 6. Please keep Brian and his family in your prayers.
    6:40 AM · Jan 8, 2021

    She knew this was a lie.

    Spare me how she’s the model Republican others should aspire to.

    whembly (d116f3)

  298. @307

    I saw the comment up thread about pardons. I could get behind that if not for the fact that Trump, and his supporters continue to lie about the election, continue to lie about Jan 6, and continue to place less importance on an attempt to steal the US presidency then they do partisan advantage. So long as that’s the case I see little reasons to move on.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:46 am

    Cool. The acrimony and demagoguery will continue until the moral improves or we tear each other apart.

    whembly (d116f3)

  299. I haven’t ruled out (or in) any of the suspects who sabotaged the Nord pipeline, but I thought it unlikely that Ukrainians had the capacity to do it, although they certainly had motive. Now it’s looking likely.

    WASHINGTON — New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.

    U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.

    Whodunnit?

    Officials who have reviewed the intelligence said they believed the saboteurs were most likely Ukrainian or Russian nationals, or some combination of the two. U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved.

    The reporting is one or two steps up from Sy Hersh, who had only a single anonymous source to spin his yarn. The NYT had multiple anonymous sources, identified as “intelligence officials”. To me, it sounds implausible that no one in the UKR government had no knowledge of the op, or that UKR doesn’t have its own version of Navy SEALS that would work off the books.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  300. Whembly, with all due respect, you’re taking a public statement from Jan 8 and asserting that the speaker knew things that weren’t known until much later.

    You’re usually better then this.

    Time123 (10316a)

  301. Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/3/2023 @ 6:00 pm

    There is a cottage industry in making ebooks of old OOP books. Scan, OCR, correct, ebook.

    I think they have to be in the public domain – that is originally printed before the mis-1920s. They are sometimes sold printed.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d095d)

  302. @310 Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:49 am

    I think it’s more likely that UKR (or even western nations) paid for mercenaries, likely former seals or similarly trained, to blow up the pipeline than anything else.

    whembly (d116f3)

  303. @309, What common cause can I find with a group of people that wants to throw out the US constitution and maintain power through lies and violence

    I understand that you don’t want to see justice done because if it will impact the GOP’s electoral success. You’ve been clear in other threads that the GOP should’ve investigate Jan 6 for that reason.

    My opinion is that maintaining our system of government and our constitution is more important that other policy concerns.

    Time123 (10316a)

  304. @311

    Whembly, with all due respect, you’re taking a public statement from Jan 8 and asserting that the speaker knew things that weren’t known until much later.

    You’re usually better then this.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:49 am

    Time123, what exactly are you referring to? What am I asserting that the speaker knew?

    whembly (d116f3)

  305. *shouldn’t

    Time123 (10316a)

  306. Yikes, I’m seeing the power of propaganda this morning. Partisan infotainment, unconstrained by journalistic ethics or legal rules of evidence, spinning narratives to defend reckless and criminal behavior. It’s a shame.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  307. @314

    @309, What common cause can I find with a group of people that wants to throw out the US constitution and maintain power through lies and violence

    I’m not asking you to support those groups.

    I understand that you don’t want to see justice done because if it will impact the GOP’s electoral success. You’ve been clear in other threads that the GOP should’ve investigate Jan 6 for that reason.

    The J6 Committee never cared about discovering what actually happened.

    Anyone who ever believed otherwise is hopelessly gullible.

    We need a truth and reconciliation commission. Otherwise, it’s just a partisan poo-flinging contest.

    My opinion is that maintaining our system of government and our constitution is more important that other policy concerns.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:52 am

    I would agree with on the premise. But, you cannot look back at Democrat’s (and some NeverTrumper’s) past behaviors and assert it’s about “maintaining our system of government and our constitution”.

    whembly (d116f3)

  308. @317

    Yikes, I’m seeing the power of propaganda this morning. Partisan infotainment, unconstrained by journalistic ethics or legal rules of evidence, spinning narratives to defend reckless and criminal behavior. It’s a shame.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:56 am

    You’ve witnessed it since J6.

    Where have you been?

    whembly (d116f3)

  309. IF that’s how you feel, then you should be mad at Pelosi kicking off the McCarthy-picked GOPers for the J6 committee and installing NeverTrumper GOPers.

    Why? The two that McCarthy were put on the committee were potential witnesses to the investigation. To this day, we don’t know what was said in the conversations between Jim Jordan and Trump while the Capitol was under siege. Banks and Jordan were two of the 147 GOP fascists who voted to cancel popular elections in one or more states.
    If you want to be angry about something, whembly, be angry that McCarthy and Republicans in the Senate shut down the proposal for a 9/11-style commission, with that canceling most likely under Trump’s orders.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  310. Fauci is supposed to have lied in his Senate testimony in 2021. I think one needs to look very carefully at what he said, because maybe it wasn’t an outright lie and they may also be mixing things up. Fauci had a different definition of “gain of function” research than Senator Rand Paul nand that was quite clear.

    Fauci did something close to commissioning a scientific paper whose aim was to deny the lab leak theory, but I don’t know that he denied doing so. He cited that as authority but he may not have been put on the spot,

    Sammy Finkelman (4d095d)

  311. The slick lefty Hollyweird producer the J6 committee hired apparently juiced up the video used by that kangaroo klan with shouts and screams to make the footage scary…

    We’ll get to hear a Capitol police officer describe his experience tonight.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  312. She knew this was a lie.

    How did she? Sicknick died only 9 hours prior to her tweet, and the initial statement from USCP was that he “was injured while physically engaging with protesters. He returned to his division office and collapsed. He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.”

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  313. Whembly, By calling her statement on Jan 8th a lie you’re asserting that she knew at that time that his death on Jan 7th weren’t caused by the injuries he received on Jan 6.

    From what I recall the details of cause of death weren’t known until at least several days after that.

    Time123 (10316a)

  314. We need a truth and reconciliation commission. Otherwise, it’s just a partisan poo-flinging contest.

    The initial plan for the investigation was something like this. The GOP, after having their requests met, refused to participate because they felt it wouldn’t be in their political interests to do so.

    Time123 (10316a)

  315. 309, What common cause can I find with a group of people that wants to throw out the US constitution and maintain power through lies and violence

    I’m not asking you to support those groups.

    Those groups are a huge part of the GOP base and congressional leadership.

    Everyone who supports Trumps lies about the 2020 election is part of that group.
    Everyone that’s trying to pretend that Jan 6 didn’t involve hundreds of Trump supporters attacking the capital is part of that group.

    Time123 (10316a)

  316. Judge denies Jan. 6 defendant’s bid for time to review McCarthy’s Capitol security footage
    ………
    U.S. District Court Judge James Boasberg said he understood why Sara Carpenter — who is facing two felony charges for her actions at the Capitol — would like time to review the material. But he said she had failed to explain why any additional footage of her movements inside the building would be exculpatory, particularly when prosecutors had already turned over footage of the vast majority of Carpenter’s 34 minutes inside the building.

    Boasberg worried that widely permitting Jan. 6 defendants to slow down their criminal proceedings in order to review this footage could “derail dozens of trials that are set in the next few months.” Boasberg — who is set to become Washington D.C.’s chief district court judge later this month — suggested that to support a delay, he would need defense attorneys to proffer what the newly disclosed videos might show that would be helpful to their clients’ cases.
    ……….
    At Friday’s hearing, prosecutors opposed Carpenter’s request, saying they had pieced together the “overwhelming” amount of her movements using CCTV footage, leaving only “a matter of seconds” unaccounted for. Carpenter already has access to a “massive” trove of CCTV footage, they noted, and defendants have the ability to request specific camera angles they would like to focus on if they believe they need additional material.

    Prosecutors also suggested that they remain largely in the dark about what the cache of footage newly unearthed by McCarthy might include.

    “We don’t have what the speaker has,” said assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Cook, adding, “In any case, there’s always the possibility some information may be out there.”
    ………
    Carpenter’s attorneys argued in court Friday that McCarthy’s batch might help fill “gaps” in the footage that would provide context to the actions Carpenter took inside the Capitol. They contended that it might help contextualize some of the actions she took that resulted in the felony charges DOJ lodged, including for obstructing Congress’ proceedings and for participating in a civil disorder. She sought a 60-day delay in her trial, which is set to begin Monday, in order to determine whether any of the new footage might be relevant.
    ………

    Sara Carpenter Statement of Facts (includes screenshots).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  317. Immortality:

    German scientists have discovered compounds that kill harmful fungi in plants and humans. In honor of Reeves’s combat skills, they named the antimicrobials “keanumycins,” according to Sebastian Götze, a co-author of the German study.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  318. NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/7/2023 @ 6:15 am

    You refuse to learn. I am NOT going to jump through your hoops. Have the simple courtesy to others to post a bit from the link if you want us to read it.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  319. I guarantee you one thing: All the video, exculpatory or not, that the government was going to use in court had to be turned over to the defense. In advance. And a list of all the witnesses the government was going to call, and any record of any statements of those witnesses in the prosecution’s possession.

    We’ll see. I’m betting that not all was available at trial, and that only incriminating tidbits were shown to defendants/lawyers prior to plea negotiations. The DoJ will plead ignorance (“We didn’t know everything that was in those recordings”) and/or harmless error.

    Even if some defendants succeed on appeal, their lives have been ruined, which was the real object anyway.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  320. Kevin M, at 73 — you’ve been around here for long enough to remember that there was a loosely affiliated collection of california-focused blogs that this was part of? (The Bear Flag League, if I remember correctly). (That’s how I got here, originally, looking for blogs talking about the first recall).

    One of them was run by a southern california lawyer named Justene Adamec. She and I connected on facebook, and while her blog has long been moribund, she is now involved in a company that republishes out of print gay romances.

    This is not something I would have predicted in 2003.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  321. I don’t really care that the footage was released, but I do care that it was exclusively put in the hands of a partisan who’s tried to sanitize and whitewash the mob violence since the day it happened.

    I don’t care for Tucker either, but this statement of yours is incredibly myopic. The committee was quite partisan itself. The fact that they only showed incriminating parts was whatever the opposite of “whitewash” is.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  322. One of them was run by a southern california lawyer named Justene Adamec.

    Yes, she talked me into starting a blog about then. Probably Patterico, too. Later, I tried to keep calblog.com going but let the domain lapse. Someone else has it now, but there is no actual site.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  323. btw, aphrael, if that kind of thing interests you, I suggest you look into this.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  324. Question for you about exculpatory evidence. The DOJ/prosecution isn’t required nor obligated to find any… right? They would be compliance with Brady if they gave access to the defense all of the videos DOJ has…right? Then, its up to the defense to find and advance the exculpatory premise. Right?

    Yes and no. They are not allowed to be willfully ignorant or willfully let the police keep things from them.

    When I was doing it, I would subpoena the police file. And I still would not be sure that eyewitnesses and eyewitness interviews might not still be on a field card or notebook in the officer’s pocket.

    But we’re going far afield. Carlson has brought the case to the MAGA Court of Appeals with only that part of the record that casts Chansley in a good light. It’s reminiscent of Powell’s and Giuliani’s Kraken.

    nk (bb1548)

  325. I don’t care for Tucker either, but this statement of yours is incredibly myopic. The committee was quite partisan itself.

    So the answer was to give FoxNews’ chief carnival barker exclusive access? There were no other options available to McCarthy?

    I never denied that the J6 Committee was partisan, Kevin, but it was my party that foreclosed on the setting up of a bipartisan commission, and for partisan reasons.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  326. I think they have to be in the public domain

    You need to get out more.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  327. I never denied that the J6 Committee was partisan, Kevin, but it was my party that foreclosed on the setting up of a bipartisan commission

    Bored now.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  328. “We don’t have what the speaker has,” said assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Cook, adding, “In any case, there’s always the possibility some information may be out there.”

    Oh my. So the DoJ did not get everything.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  329. Navy Reservist who praised Hitler convicted of joining mob that stormed US Capitol
    ………
    Hatchet Speed, of McLean, Virginia, was found guilty of one felony count of obstruction of an official proceeding and four misdemeanor counts by U.S. District Judge Trevor McFadden. McFadden delivered his ruling Tuesday following a brief bench trial last week.

    ………At the time of his arrest, Speed had been assigned to the Naval Warfare Space Field Activity at the National Reconnaissance Office in Chantilly, Virginia.

    In charging documents, prosecutors said Speed told an undercover FBI employee he’d traveled to the Capitol with friends who were members of the Proud Boys and that going to the Capitol as “always the plan.” He said he’d entered the building in part because he’d heard former Vice President Mike Pence had “validated” certain ballots he considered “invalid.”

    On Tuesday, McFadden said the government had provided more than sufficient evidence to convict Speed on the felony count of obstruction, saying it was “crystal clear that Mr. Speed intended to obstruct and occupy the Capitol building” and had only left because he believed that goal had been achieved.
    ……….
    Speed also allegedly made numerous statements praising the writings of the “Unabomber” Ted Kaczynski and Eric Rudolph, the man known as the “Olympic Park Bomber” who was convicted of a series of bombings that killed two people and injured more than 100 others between 1996 and 1998. Rudolph’s targets, in addition to location of the 1996 Summer Olympics, included two abortion clinics in Georgia and Alabama and a lesbian bar in Atlanta.
    ……….

    Statement of Facts. Speed (in an unrelated case) is also facing a maximum of ten years for illegally possessing three silencers.

    Judge McFadden (a Trump appointee) is the only judge to have outright acquitted a J6 defendant in a bench trial.

    “At the time of his arrest, Speed had been assigned to the Naval Warfare Space Field Activity at the National Reconnaissance Office….”

    Just the kind of guy you want working on the country’s most closely held secrets.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  330. We’ll see. I’m betting that not all was available at trial, and that only incriminating tidbits were shown to defendants/lawyers prior to plea negotiations.

    I meant that if the defense does not see them, they don’t get admitted at trial.

    And one more thing. About guilty pleas. The judge has to find a factual basis for the plea.

    nk (bb1548)

  331. Oh my. So the DoJ did not get everything.

    Who knows all?

    nk (bb1548)

  332. If the government (DOJ) doesn’t have all the footage, defense lawyers will need to subpoena it from either the Capitol Police (who control the cameras) or Speaker McCarthy’s office.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  333. Just the kind of guy you want working on the country’s most closely held secrets.

    It would be interesting to see what happens to those who vetted him for his TS clearance. Those investigations are really supposed to be thorough and it doesn’t look like this guy’s political extremism should have been hard to find.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  334. I meant that if the defense does not see them, they don’t get admitted at trial.

    But there may be things the defense doesn’t see that they WANT admitted at trial. This has the makings of a real problem.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  335. Greg Price
    @greg_price11
    The J6 Committee:

    – Lied about how Brian Sicknick died
    – Lied about Barry Loudermilk taking rioters on a reconnaissance mission
    – Lied about Josh Hawley running away
    – Lied about Ray Epps being a credible witness

    @Liz_Cheney
    ,
    @AdamKinzinger
    , and
    @RepAdamSchiff
    are liars.
    9:25 PM · Mar 6, 2023

    Colonel Haiku (19e1c5)

  336. “McCarthy was heavily criticized for giving Carlson a preliminary exclusive here. But, in retrospect, I think that it was a shrewd move. I expect that ultimately, the entire cache of videos will be released, and crowd sourced. And at that point, those screaming cherry picking on the part of Carlson should, if they had any morals, eat crow, because it will just look worse. But by doing this this way, McCarthy has guaranteed the biggest possible audience for the video destruction of the 1/6 narrative.”

    Colonel Haiku (19e1c5)

  337. My real problem is all the little fish — victims of a con man — are having their lives destroyed while the con man walks.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  338. Officers have already testified under oath that after the rioters overwhelmed them and broke into the capital they tied to de-escalate the situation.

    Tucker is lying to his audience by omitting that fact.
    Just as he’s lied to them by omitting that Chansley admitted that he entered through a door on the senate side that rioters broke open and that he was one of the first 30 rioters to enter.

    But Tucker will present him as a peaceful tourist and ignore that in days after the violent assault on Jan 6 he gave interviews to media outlets and stated that “the fact that we had a bunch of traitors in office hunker down, put on gas masks and retreat into their bunker, I consider that a win”

    It’s garbage, but the GOP is all about supporting this.

    Time123 (10316a)

  339. Kevin, because the little ppl love the con man and will vigorously attack anyone that wants to hold him accountable. This support of a violent attack on the US capital isn’t fringe. It’s near and dear to the heart of the GOP.

    Time123 (10316a)

  340. What did the J6 committee get wrong factually? I do remember that the GOP promised to put on an alternative presentation of facts about J6. Did they ever? If not, why not? I’m not sure I would call the J6 committee partisan. Yes, they did not go out of their way to excuse Trump’s actions, but the bulk of testimony was from Republicans. Now one can argue that some of it was cherry picked and should have included cross examination to tease out nuance, but I’m still unclear about what major points of fact were actually wrong. If Trump tried to stop the mob and discourage them, then I doubt that the committee would have white washed that. If Trump’s advisors were not in contact with the militia groups that led the charge, then that too should be easy to show. Just saying “no cross examination” doesn’t change much of the evidence that was presented. The GOP controls the House, what did we miss seeing? Was Hawley not continuously running or something…did we miss him courageously facing the mob?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  341. Bored now.

    Your emotions are irrelevant, Kevin.
    Bottom line, Pelosi called Trump’s bluff and set up a commission despite his attempts at shutting one down. Was it partisan? Yes. Did it elicit new information? Yes, which made it ultimately worthwhile, IMO, more worthwhile than not.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)


  342. It would be interesting to see what happens to those who vetted him for his TS clearance….

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 10:23 am

    Probably nothing. The questions about personal beliefs or posts on social media appear not to be asked:

    The application form, Standard Form 86—SF86 (Questionnaire for National Security Positions), requires personal identifying data, as well as information regarding citizenship, residence, education, and employment history; family and associates; and foreign connections/travel. Additionally, it asks for information about criminal records, illegal drug involvement, financial delinquencies, mental health counseling, alcohol-related incidents and counseling, military service, prior clearances and investigations, civil court actions, misuse of computer systems, and subversive activities. The number of years of information required on the form varies from question to question—many require 7 years, some require 10 years, and others are not limited to any period of time.

    https://cspri.seas.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs1446/f/downloads/security_clearance_faq.pdf

    A polygraph is not required for a TS clearance, only for access to Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) or Special Access Programs (SAP), or intelligence or law enforcement personnel.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  343. 348… absolutely drips with sincerity!

    Colonel Haiku (19e1c5)

  344. So the answer was to give FoxNews’ chief carnival barker exclusive access? There were no other options available to McCarthy?

    Options? OTOH, the United States Congress had ‘exclusive access’ for two years to these same tapes and chose to reveal to Americans selected, edited elements presented on national television w/t professional aid of a hired ABC News producer through a partisan show committee. So what was the worry– other than to neuter any partisan manipulations. Sunshine is the disinfectant.

    DCSCA (ff7df7)

  345. Sunshine is the disinfectant.

    You have a different definition of “sunshine” which, in McCarthy’s case, was giving one partisan exclusive access to 44,000 hours of tape, than I do, DC.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  346. Idiot:

    ………
    Brandon Cavanaugh, of Huntington Beach, was seen inside the Capitol among the Donald Trump supporters who pushed through police lines to try to stop Congress from certifying Joe Biden’s 2020 electoral win.

    Surveillance footage showed Cavanaugh in the building for almost 15 minutes, when he climbed a staircase, walked through hallways, and recorded the contents and occupants of a security guard desk, according to charging documents.

    FBI investigators identified Cavanaugh as they were reviewing the social media activity of a different, unnamed suspected Capitol rioter. While looking through a private Telegram chat group pursuant to a search warrant in that case, investigators came across Cavanaugh’s account, “Brandon HB Groyper.”
    ………
    “On March 7, 2021, ‘Brandon HB Groyper’ wrote, ‘I honestly want to kill all n—- lovers / Ruthlessly cut their chest open / Rip out their hearts / And eat it,’” the affidavit says. “On July 30, 2021, ‘Brandon HB Groyper’ wrote, ‘I am done with words I want blood hahah man only in my dreams would I ever get this much satisfaction. Maybe that’s why I like it so much.’”

    The Telegram account included a picture of an ID card showing that Cavanaugh, now in his early 30s, had worked for NASA.
    ………
    Cavanaugh was arraigned Monday on an information containing a single count of parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol Building, a federal misdemeanor that carries a potential six-month jail sentence.

    Although he officially entered a plea of not guilty, he is expected to plead guilty to the single count in April. He originally faced four misdemeanors that carried a combined potential of three years behind bars.
    ……….
    Cavanaugh, for his part, appears to offer an explanation of his own on a right-wing crowdfunding website.

    “I peacefully protested our election outcome and carried the America First flag because I believe in America First and Christian Values and their major role in the preservation of the America we know and love,” a fundraising page on GiveSendGo says. “I have been slandered and targeted by the FBI for my attendance to the event and expressing my First Amendment right. I am now out on bail awaiting my next court date. This is the beginning of a long fight, but when I defeat this case with its slander, I intend to continue my push for these values.”
    ……….

    Statement of Facts

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  347. @324

    Whembly, By calling her statement on Jan 8th a lie you’re asserting that she knew at that time that his death on Jan 7th weren’t caused by the injuries he received on Jan 6.

    From what I recall the details of cause of death weren’t known until at least several days after that.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/7/2023 @ 9:17 am

    And yet, has she corrected herself? At all?

    If so, I must have missed that.

    whembly (d116f3)

  348. @356. If the committee presentations were non-partisan — you have nothing to worry about.

    Unless they weren’t. Still, Ashli Babbitt remains unavailable for comment.

    DCSCA (ff7df7)

  349. So the answer was to give FoxNews’ chief carnival barker exclusive access? There were no other options available to McCarthy?

    So what was the worry– other than to neuter any partisan manipulations.

    I would agree if Tucko would post all 14,000 hours (or whatever the number is) unedited for public viewing, but he is engaging in his own “partisan manipulations.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  350. @348

    My real problem is all the little fish — victims of a con man — are having their lives destroyed while the con man walks.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 10:39 am

    This. Right here. All of it.

    Except for those who absolutely was shown to have participated in the riot phase (assaulting officers, breaking windows, and the likes)… those should still face consequences.

    whembly (d116f3)

  351. It’s garbage, but the GOP is all about supporting this.

    “Mostly peaceful” wasn’t invented here.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  352. Your emotions are irrelevant, Kevin.

    Being bored is not an emotion. I’m pretty sure on this point.

    The problem is that you are rehashing a lame justification that was boring a year ago.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  353. @360. Congress certainly could have done that– at taxpayer expense, but chose not to for multiple if not typical government excuses. Perhaps NewsCorp will, at their own expense, but if there’s thousands of hours of empty corridor footage or a few people going to the rest room it wouldn’t be cost-effective.

    DCSCA (ff7df7)

  354. Idiots No. 2:

    ………
    Christopher Carnell, 20, of Cary, North Carolina, and David Worth Bowman, 21, of Raleigh, North Carolina, allegedly broke into the Capitol building along with scores of Donald Trump supporters angry over Joe Biden’s win in the 2020 presidential election. At around 2:49 p.m., according to prosecutors, Carnell and Bowman made their way to the Senate floor.

    Prosecutors relied on video from the New Yorker that showed Carnell huddled with others around a desk and rifling through papers apparently linked to Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz.

    “He was gonna sell us out all along — look!” an unidentified rioter is heard saying. “‘Objection to counting the electoral votes of the state of Arizona.’”

    “Wait, no,” Carnell replied, according to prosecutors. “That’s a good thing. He’s on our side. He’s with us. He’s with us.”

    Carnell apparently wore a backpack with his last name stitched in white letters.
    ……….
    Carnell, who was 18 at the time of the riot, and Bowman, who was 19, are charged with obstructing an official proceeding of Congress, a felony that carries a potential 20-year prison sentence. They are also charged with a handful of trespassing and disorderly conduct misdemeanors that carry a combined statutory maximum of three years behind bars.
    ………
    After Jan. 6, the text conversation apparently contemplated that there might be consequences for breaching the building that day.

    “[P]lease delete this group text,” Bowman allegedly wrote to the group on Jan. 8 after sending the group a link to a news story including an image taken from the Senate floor. “It would be so funny if you all deleted this as a funny ironic joke.”
    ……….

    Emphasis added.

    Carnell and Bowman Statement of Facts

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  355. This. Right here. All of it.

    It’s always the pawns that suffer. The [c]rooks not so much.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  356. I read the leftist lawyer who threw a molotov cocktail at a police van full of cops during the nationwide BLM/Antifa race riots was sentenced to fifteen months in prison.

    The Buffalo Horned Shaman got forty one months. Did the SOBs really keep him in solitary confinement until he pled guilty?

    Seems like folks would be well-advised to register as a Democrat before protesting.

    Colonel Haiku (19e1c5)

  357. If the committee presentations were non-partisan — you have nothing to worry about.

    I have to nothing to worry about even if they were partisan, DC, which they were, even if pretty much all the witnesses were Republicans and Trump supporters, which they were. The committee’s entire body of work was passed along to the weak-named Special Counsel, who is taking it from there.

    And yet, has she corrected herself? At all?

    That’s moving the goalposts, whembly. You accused Cheney of lying for something that she tweeted only 9 hours after Sicknick’s death, when the only information out there was a statement from the Capitol Police.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  358. but chose not to for multiple if not typical government excuses

    “Privacy!”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  359. Seems like folks would be well-advised to register as a Democrat before protesting.

    Or be under 18.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  360. Bored: feeling weary because one is unoccupied or lacks interest in one’s current activity.
    –Oxford Dictionary, because words have meaning

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  361. @368

    And yet, has she corrected herself? At all?

    That’s moving the goalposts, whembly. You accused Cheney of lying for something that she tweeted only 9 hours after Sicknick’s death, when the only information out there was a statement from the Capitol Police.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 11:31 am

    No. It’s not.

    She hasn’t corrected herself. No doing so is lying by omission.

    She perpetuated a lie, that Democrats/J6 committee continually blame Sicknick’s death.

    whembly (d116f3)

  362. feeling != emotion

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  363. Unless you consider pain to be an emotion.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  364. @Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 11:31 am

    Happy to be wrong if Cheney did correct herself, but my google-fu is failing me.

    Do you have a correction?

    whembly (d116f3)

  365. Gigi Sohn, net neutrality advocate and public-interest (gah!) lawyer, withdraws FCC nomination

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/03/07/gigi-sohn-withdraws-fcc-nomination/

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  366. Do you have a correction?

    No, and my point stands.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  367. @377 So you’re okay with Cheney perpetuating a mistaken assertion, that contributed to the rhetoric of the day?

    No. You don’t have a point. You just don’t want to address my point. Which is, Cheney made a statement, a very EXPLOSIVE one, that turned out to be wrong and she hasn’t, to this day, corrected it nor worked to correct her Democrat colleagues for repeating that false assertion after it was know that it wasn’t true.

    whembly (d116f3)

  368. Whembly, so we’re agreed your comment should be “Chaney expressed condolences for a police officer she believed at the time had died from injuries sustained from Jan 6 rioters and hasn’t publicly corrected her statement to show that those injuries were at most a contributing factor.”

    I agree that she should update her tweet (even though people often fail to correct mistakes made on twitter) but I don’t think her mistake is close to knowingly lying about what happened.

    Time123 (10316a)

  369. BTW, it is a lie if folks say after 4/19/2021 (at the latest) that Sicknick was killed/murdered by rioters, because it was on that day when the DC Medical Examiner publicly concluded that he died of a stroke. He also said that “all that transpired played a role in his condition,” which is fairly generic but it’s not out of line to say that his blood pressure was elevated while in combat with rioters.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  370. California, in the midst of a drought, fears widespread flooding.

    https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2023-03-07/california-forecasters-warn-of-approaching-atmospheric-river

    Another atmospheric river system has set its sights on California, raising considerable concern about flooding and structural damage as warm rain is expected to fall atop the state’s near-record snowpack this week, forecasters say….

    Officials said the bounty made a dent in the state’s extreme drought conditions and offered some hope for strained water supplies after three bone-dry years. But heavy snowpack can also become a hazard if it meets with warm rain that melts it too quickly.

    If this was Texas it would be called mismanagement.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  371. The Mojave should be littered with “lakes” like Lake Perris, and used for long-term water storage. Those that object due to disrupted ecosystems should consider just how disruptive droughts are to living things.

    Doing nothing is often worse than doing something, even though you rarely need a permit for doing nothing.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  372. I can’t find where they Jan 6 report references Officer Sicknick, let alone asserts that he was killed by the injuries he received from the rioters.

    Time123 (10316a)

  373. @362, The Jan 6 protest was mostly peaceful. Of the tens of thousands of trump supporters who showed up only a few hundred violently assaulted the US capital.

    My complain is that the GOP is strongly in support of the violent ones, and Trump

    Time123 (10316a)

  374. Not sure how much weight ppl give the statements of the police anymore but the Capital Police maintain that officer Sicknicks death was in part caused by the Jan 6 riots.

    Time123 (3ad720)

  375. I see four groups on J6:

    1. Those that remained outside and simply held signs.
    2. Those that went inside, doing nothing else.
    3. Those that went inside and maybe damaged property and/or entered obviously restricted areas (Senate chambers, congressional offices, etc).
    4. Those that assaulted officers whether they went inside or not.

    Of these:

    Group 1 should not be charged with anything.
    Group 2 should be charged with misdemeanor trespassing, and fined.
    Group 3 should be charged with misdemeanors or felonies and jailed for a period of time.
    Group 4 should be charges with felony assault and imprisoned.

    I’m pretty sure that the next GOP president will pardon group 2 & most of group 3, but not group 4. Hopefully people who did not enter the Capitol are not charged with crimes.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  376. I also think that people who trash federal buildings elsewhere should be treated in similar manner.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  377. 385: If a customer dies of a heart attack during a bank robbery, are the robbers charged with felony murder?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  378. Agreed on your classifications at 386, Kevin, but disagreed on the likely pardons; the next republican president will pardon them all, because they will have spent years blindly referring to all of them as political prisoners, and they’ll be trapped by their own rhetoric.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  379. You’re still moving the goalposts, whembly, from (paraphrasing) “she lied 9 hours after he died” to “she didn’t correct a tweet!” I don’t know if she did or not, but she clearly didn’t lie on 1/8/2021.
    Here’s a question, whembly: Do you condemn Trump for not correcting any of the 30,000-plus lies he told while in office? One standard, right?

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  380. Kevin, I agree on 1. For 2&3 I’d add that some of the ‘trespassers’ had to see evidence of the violence on their way in. You also need a group 5, people who came with the intent of participating in an armed insurrection. We’ve had convictions for sedition and know that group 5 did exist, but wasn’t that large.

    I’d also point out that based on trial results ppl are being treated in the way you think they should.

    Time123 (10316a)

  381. @379

    Whembly, so we’re agreed your comment should be “Chaney expressed condolences for a police officer she believed at the time had died from injuries sustained from Jan 6 rioters and hasn’t publicly corrected her statement to show that those injuries were at most a contributing factor.”

    I agree that she should update her tweet (even though people often fail to correct mistakes made on twitter) but I don’t think her mistake is close to knowingly lying about what happened.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/7/2023 @ 11:50 am

    I think that Cheney had an obligation in correcting the record AND provide pushback when Democrats continue to push this after it was know since she was the face of the “GOP” in the J6 committee. The fact that she didn’t in either case reflects poorly on her, and there’s no defense for her lack of action.

    In short, she perpetuated a lie that turned the temperature up a bajillion degrees during the J6 investigation.

    whembly (d116f3)

  382. “But there may be things the defense doesn’t see that they WANT admitted at trial. This has the makings of a real problem.”

    It’s been a problem since the Brady ruling occurred.

    Davethulhu (607d18)

  383. @390

    You’re still moving the goalposts, whembly, from (paraphrasing) “she lied 9 hours after he died”

    You’re putting words in my mouth. Don’t paraphrase.

    She put out a statement that was wrong.

    She hasn’t corrected it (that I’ve seen. I’m still trying different search criterions).

    Nor has she pushed back on her Democrat colleagues who continually asserts it.

    As far as I’m concerned, it’s lying by omission. It’s what liars do.

    to “she didn’t correct a tweet!” I don’t know if she did or not, but she clearly didn’t lie on 1/8/2021.
    Here’s a question, whembly: Do you condemn Trump for not correcting any of the 30,000-plus lies he told while in office? One standard, right?

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/7/2023 @ 12:30 pm

    I do codemn Trump’s lies.

    Absolutely, we must have one standard.

    But like I’ve mentioned numerous times on this board: Just because Trump does bad things, doesn’t give his opponents license to do the same.

    whembly (d116f3)

  384. Hopefully people who did not enter the Capitol are not charged with crimes.

    Including those that assaulted officers?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  385. Your statement is not qualified to those who did not enter the Capitol but assaulted officers outside the building.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  386. You also need a group 5, people who came with the intent of participating in an armed insurrection. We’ve had convictions for sedition and know that group 5 did exist, but wasn’t that large.

    That group is harder to define, since you don’t actually have to even come to DC to be involved in a seditious conspiracy. I put Trump in that group.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  387. Including those that assaulted officers?

    I covered that in point 4.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  388. Wrangling over Jan. 6 footage could force open congressional records
    ……….
    Past efforts to use the courts to force disclosure of congressional records like the videos have gotten little traction, but the Jan. 6-related case seizes on an opinion a D.C. Circuit judge issued in June. The new legal fight has the potential to set a new precedent for what kinds of information Congress must disclose, and when — and is squarely aimed at upending decades of law that shielded the institution from public scrutiny.

    In her June opinion, Judge Karen LeCraft Henderson concluded that House and Senate records could sometimes be subject to a centuries-old “common-law right” of public access. The conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch had filed a suit seeking copies of subpoenas the House Intelligence Committee issued during the first impeachment investigation into former President Donald Trump.

    The appeals court ruled that the Constitution’s “speech or debate” clause precluded the group’s suit, but Henderson — an appointee of former President George H. W. Bush — said in a solo concurrence that in the right case it might be possible to force Congress to disclose some of its records.

    “Simply put, the Speech or Debate Clause should not bar disclosure of public records subject to the common law right of access in all circumstances,” she wrote.
    ………
    In addition to the video footage captured by security cameras on Jan. 6, the new suit seeks information about a series of reports Congress instructed House and Senate officials to prepare, including a catalog of unreleased Capitol Police inspector general reviews dealing with security vulnerabilities and other issues.

    The suit also presses longstanding fights to bring more transparency to Congress, by demanding manuals containing House and Senate rules for handling classified information and details on a process the Capitol Police were supposed to set up for release of their records in a fashion similar to the Freedom of Information Act, which applies only to Executive Branch agencies.
    ……….
    Henderson noted in her opinion suggestions in various cases that some of Congress’s records are covered by a common-law presumption of access, but judges have generally been loath to dictate to Congress what must be made public.
    ………
    (House General Counsel Douglas Letter) also argued that the House records sought are “absolutely protected” by the speech or debate clause, that the House’s security manual only amounts to “advice, guidance and direction,” and that none of the records record any official decision of the House or its committees.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  389. Including those that assaulted officers?

    I covered that in point 4.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 12:50 pm

    My bad.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  390. Nationwide strikes in France due to the government trying to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64. My attitude? Raise it to 65.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  391. Whembly, I see what you’re saying. I agree with you that it reflects poorly on her, but don’t put the same importance to it as you do. I don’t see it as big of an issue as you do, but I agree that it is an issue.

    I’m also leaving open the possibility that she shares the police departments opinion on what happened. IIRC she’s always been a strong ‘back the blue’ type.

    But IMO blaming the rioters who assaulted him for his death the next day is a stretch.

    Time123 (10316a)

  392. My bad.

    I appreciate the contradiction in what I posted. I would have edited it, but I can’t.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  393. Daughter Darth has paid the price; Wyoming booted her from Congress. Yet Liz so loved Wyoming she wangled a gig ‘teaching’ at the University of Virginia rather than going “home” to Jackson Hole. AS the old adage goes, we know what those who can’t do end up doing- and now students are paying the price w/tuitions to be taught methods and procedures from the Vader Seed:

    Former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) has accepted the University of Virginia’s offer to be a professor at the UVA’s Center for Politics, the school announced Wednesday.[3/1/23]

    Driving the news: Center director Larry Sabato said in a statement on Cheney’s appointment that with “democracy under fire” in the U.S. and elsewhere, the Trump critic who served as vice chair of the Jan. 6 House panel investigating the U.S. Capitol riot “serves as a model of political courage and leadership.” – https://www.axios.com/2023/03/02/liz-cheney-joins-uva-virginia-professor

    ‘Sabato is a critic of former United States President Donald Trump, stating he believed that Trump’s presidency was the “worst” in U.S. history. In July 2021, the Republican Party of Virginia made headlines for demanding Sabato be investigated by the University of Virginia for his anti-Trump tweets.’- wikibio

    DCSCA (b33d06)

  394. Sicknick’s death would be treated as felony murder if the stroke had occurred during a robbery. People v Stamp (1969). Pretty sure that’s a first-year law school case.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  395. @405 I don’t think you can dispute that the prosecution and judges has gone as aggressive as possibly the could here.

    Then, why didn’t the DOJ charge any of Sicknick’s assaulters, they had them, for murder then?

    whembly (d116f3)

  396. @402

    Whembly, I see what you’re saying. I agree with you that it reflects poorly on her, but don’t put the same importance to it as you do. I don’t see it as big of an issue as you do, but I agree that it is an issue.

    I’m also leaving open the possibility that she shares the police departments opinion on what happened. IIRC she’s always been a strong ‘back the blue’ type.

    But IMO blaming the rioters who assaulted him for his death the next day is a stretch.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/7/2023 @ 12:53 pm

    Thanks buddy… we’re not so far off here. 😉

    whembly (d116f3)

  397. Then, why didn’t the DOJ charge any of Sicknick’s assaulters, they had them, for murder then?

    Not sure. Maybe felony-murder is controversial these days?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  398. @408 Or, now hear me out, it would be near impossible to get any conviction for murder and the prosecution doesn’t want a “loss” on record.

    whembly (d116f3)

  399. Kevin,
    My understanding is that those who quietly walked through the Capitol Building and didn’t exhort other rioters or vandalize or commit violence got lesser charges of “parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol building”, particularly if they showed contrition.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  400. The DOJ hasn’t really been swinging for the fences here. Please deals have been pretty generous. Sentencing recommendations have been in line with norms. Charges have been for things that are clear and easily proven.

    But, there’s guilty in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt, and there’s morally guilty. Maybe She-Darth felt there was enough culpability that she didn’t see the need to wade back into it.

    Time123 (10316a)

  401. Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 12:23 pm

    January 6 Defendants Catch the Breaks:

    ………
    …….Of more than 460 people charged with felonies, only 69 have been convicted and sentenced so far, mostly for assaulting police or obstructing Congress; all but four of those have received jail or prison time. The average prison sentence for a felony conviction so far is 33 months, according to a Washington Post database.

    And the judges in U.S. District Court in Washington, despite harsh words for the convicted defendants about the historic impact of their actions, have gone below federal prosecutors’ sentencing recommendations in more than three-quarters of the cases so far, and below the advisory sentencing guidelines nearly 40 percent of the time.

    About half of the arrests so far have been for misdemeanors, and for those given actual jail time, the average sentence has been 48 days. But most of the misdemeanants have not received any jail time: most have received probation, home detention or halfway house time, or a fine. These defendants are typically rioters who entered the Capitol and didn’t engage with the police, but left a trail of social media posts and photos before, during and after Jan. 6.

    If we include those who didn’t receive jail time among the misdemeanor sentences, the average jail time drops to 22 days. The number of defendants being held in jail before trial, or awaiting sentencing, is about 50, according to a list provided by the Justice Department.
    ……….
    For the 25 defendants sentenced so far for assaulting law enforcement, the average sentence has been more than 48 months — in line with the nationwide average for that offense in recent years, according to data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission. ……

    The most serious charge for those not accused of assaulting the police has been obstruction of an official proceeding. Only 28 people have been sentenced for obstruction or conspiracy to obstruct the certification of the electoral vote, receiving an average sentence of about 42 months. ……
    ……..
    The judges appointed by Democratic presidents have imposed jail or prison sentences in 61 percent of their cases, and probation in 18 percent of the cases, while judges appointed by Republican presidents have given jail or prison sentences in 48 percent of their cases, and probation in 34 percent of cases. ……

    Judges Dabney Friedrich and Trevor N. McFadden, both Trump appointees, have given probation sentences to about half of their Jan. 6 defendants. …….

    Prosecutors have made fairly consistent recommendations in all 357 sentencings so far. They typically seek 30- or 45-day jail sentences for misdemeanors. For felonies, the U.S. attorney’s office has looked at the federal sentencing guidelines, which account for both the seriousness of the crime and the defendant’s criminal history, and usually asked for the midpoint of the guidelines’ range.
    ………
    But the judges have sentenced below the government’s recommendation in nearly 77 percent of all cases, including 71 percent of the felonies. …….

    Republican judges have gone below the government recommendation 82 percent of the time, and Democratic judges about 72 percent of the time. There are 13 Democratic and eight Republican judges handling Jan. 6 cases on the D.C. federal bench.

    Despite their harsh rhetoric, D.C. judges have regularly sentenced Jan. 6 defendants to terms below even what federal sentencing guidelines call for — a little less than 38 percent of the time.
    ………
    “Are these [Jan. 6] guys getting hammered more than typical defendants?” asked Mark Allenbaugh, a federal sentencing consultant and former staff attorney for the U.S. Sentencing Commission. “From a high-level view, from what I can tell, they’re not.”
    ……….
    There have been 44 trials, and the defendants have one win and 43 losses. Twenty of the trials have been in front of a jury, and the government is 20-0. Of the 24 trials in front of a judge, the one defense win was in a misdemeanor “entering a restricted building” case…….

    All but four of the trials have been for felonies. The average sentence for those convicted of felonies at trial has been about 49 months, while the average sentence for those who pleaded guilty to felonies has been about 28 months.

    Of the 11 felony trial sentencings so far, the judges have gone below the government’s recommendation every time, and below the guidelines in eight of the cases. ………

    Data as of January 2023. Free link to article.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  402. From the CPAC Thread:

    For a conference that’s actually for conservatives instead of posers and grovelers and exploiters, Principles First is raring to go.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/2/2023 @ 12:09 pm

    Sadly, it didn’t go well:

    ……..
    The two-day confab at the luxury Conrad Hotel, billed as the Principles First Summit, was implicitly constructed as a counterweight to the MAGA-fied Conservative Political Action Conference. But the programming also served to underscore the often-bleak, occasionally hopeless, existence that comes with being a modern day anti-Trump Republican.
    ………
    It’s been roughly six years since the dawn of the Never Trump movement. And, over that time period, it has not had much success — at least when it comes to reforming the party to which its members once belonged. But those within it feel as if a new political opportunity could be at hand with Trump’s vulnerable position in the party. The question they’re confronting is whether they can capitalize on it. By Sunday, they’d had some indications of how it would go. Larry Hogan, the former Maryland governor long seen as a centrist alternative to Trump in 2024, announced he would be forgoing a run for the presidency.

    Despair, once again.
    ……..
    The more immediate problem, however, may be that those in attendance don’t even agree on a way out of their conundrum. ……

    Some in attendance wanted to reform the GOP from within. Others were resigned to boosting moderate Democrats over election-denying populists.
    ………
    “We need to defeat the Trump Republicans. And if that means being with the Democrats for a while, that’s fine,” he added, suggesting a presidential ticket of Democrats Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and Rep. Abigail Spanberger of Virginia. “That’s fine with me.”
    ……..
    Over the course of some 20 panels and speeches, the tone bounced from upbeat to nostalgic to despondent. One group debated whether Trump or Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis would be a worse nominee (no consensus was reached). At times, the proceedings had the feel of a collective therapy session — especially when it came to reliving the events of Jan. 6, 2021.
    ……..
    For many featured speakers, the crushing personal toll of opposing Trump and speaking out against Jan. 6 was a common theme.
    ……..
    The losses of MAGA Republicans was one of the threads of joy that surfaced at Principles First Summit. Indeed, Sarah Longwell, an anti-Trump strategist, suggested that the way to restore sanity to the GOP would be for it to suffer “sustained electoral defeats.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  403. Correction:

    The quote

    “We need to defeat the Trump Republicans. And if that means being with the Democrats for a while, that’s fine,” he added, suggesting a presidential ticket of Democrats Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and Rep. Abigail Spanberger of Virginia. “That’s fine with me.”

    Should have been credited to Bill Kristol.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  404. How Many Died as a Result of Capitol Riot?

    https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/

    DCSCA (30a7a9)

  405. ‘Bulls—‘: GOP senators rebuke Tucker Carlson for downplaying Jan. 6 as ‘mostly peaceful’
    ……..
    At a GOP leadership press conference, (Minority Leader Mitch) McConnell said he wanted to associate himself with the letter sent to the U.S. Capitol Police force by Chief Thomas Manger, who denounced Carlson for spreading “offensive and misleading conclusions” about the Jan. 6 insurrection, including a “disturbing accusation” that Officer Brian Sicknick’s death had nothing to do with the riot.

    “I want to associate myself entirely with the opinion of the chief and the Capitol Police about what happened on January 6,” McConnell said as he held up a copy of the letter. “It was a mistake, in my view, for Fox News to depict this in a way that’s completely at variance with what our chief law enforcement official here at the Capitol thinks.”
    ………
    “I was here. I was down there and I saw maybe a few tourists, a few people who got caught up in things,” (Sen. Thom Tillis of North Carolina) added. “But when you see police barricades breached, when you see police officers assaulted, all of that … if you were just a tourist you should’ve probably lined up at the visitors’ center and came in on an orderly basis.”
    ……….
    “I think that breaking through glass windows and doors to get into the United States Capitol against the borders of police is a crime. I think particularly when you come into the chambers, when you start opening the members’ desks, when you stand up in their balcony — to somehow put that in the same category as, you know, permitted peaceful protest is just a lie,” (Sen. Kevin Cramer) said.
    ………..
    “Clearly the chief of the Capitol police correctly described what most of us witnessed on January 6,” added McConnell, who declined several times to criticize McCarthy.

    Cramer said the speaker could have given the footage to “all sources equally,” rather than “one who is particularly good at conservative entertainment.”
    ………
    “It’s a very dangerous thing to do, to suggest that attacking the Capitol of the United States is in any way acceptable and it’s anything other than a serious crime, against democracy and against our country,” (Sen. Mitt Romney) said. “And people saw that it was violent and destructive and should never happen again. But trying to normalize that behavior is dangerous and disgusting.”
    ………
    What didn’t appear on Carlson’s program Monday evening was video showing police and rioters engaged in extended violent clashes. About 140 police officers were assaulted that day.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  406. whembly (d116f3) — 3/7/2023 @ 1:42 pm

    I’m sure you’re right, particularly since there is no clear culprit(s).

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  407. There is the guy who was charges with “stealing government property” for taking an envelope. There is always piling on.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  408. Should have been credited to Bill Kristol.

    Bill Kristol (and a few other unemployed political consultants posing as various front groups) are as harmful to their cause and Trump is to his.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  409. @413. ‘Tail Barks At Dog; Complains About View’

    Film at 11.

    DCSCA (30a7a9)

  410. Had Trump lost in 2016, there would be no 2nd Amendment and political speech would be regulated. I need to consider that as I judge the costs of Trump’s four years. OTOH, now that the Supreme Court is 6-3, who needs Don?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  411. Crap leaving dog complains to tail. Metaphor at 4.

    AJ_Liberty (f7f421)

  412. There is the guy who was charges with “stealing government property” for taking an envelope. There is always piling on.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 2:28 pm

    Who was also convicted of

    Obstruction of an Official Proceeding;
    Aiding and Abetting;
    Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;
    Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;
    Entering and Remaining in Certain Rooms in the Capitol Building;
    Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building;
    Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building;

    I doubt the conviction on four misdemeanors will figure large in his sentencing, though as shown in my post 412 he will get far, far less than the 47 years he is facing and richly deserves.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  413. @421. Actually he did lose in 2016—the popular vote that is; which went to HRC. But that EC Constitution thingy got in the way, didn’t it. 😉

    DCSCA (a0c34c)

  414. @423: Not one of those was a violent act and the “dangerous weapon” was never shown to be operable. So, piling on.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  415. Actually he did lose in 2016—the popular vote that is

    He also lost “Mr Congeniality” but that also has no bearing on the election.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  416. When 2 or more persons engage in a common criminal design or agreement, any acts in the furtherance of that common design committed by one party are considered to be the acts of all parties to the common design or agreement and all are equally responsible for the consequences of those further acts. Mere presence at the scene of a crime does not render a person accountable for an offense; a person’s presence at the scene of a crime, however, may be considered with other circumstances by the trier of fact when determining accountability. — (720 ILCS 5/5-2) (from Ch. 38, par. 5-2)

    nk (bb1548)

  417. ‘Bulls—‘: GOP senators rebuke Tucker Carlson for downplaying Jan. 6 as ‘mostly peaceful’

    Well, it was.

    But that’s a misleading statement. And Tucker Carlson knows it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  418. @278 I read it. Rockerfeller admitted and was called out for being compromises for supporting lies. Article says nuclear program substantiated. Hyatt gives no evidence of this. I don’t blame you for not wanting to relitigate because their is no evidence of nuclear program and plenty of evidence of shut down. How does hyatt article refute what I stated? 2008 article was a white wash to protect compromised democrat senators. Fair game movie shows they had no evidence and punished those who said they didn’t. Senate democrats were trying to protect hillary and their votes on iraq war. Hyatt even admits ambivalence. Since 2008 a lot more evidence shown in the movie fair game and other places bush and neo-cons lied and people died. Bush only defense is that he didn’t know because he was lied to by cheney. All these scum were doing CYA. This is why I hate corporate establishment democrats

    asset (88e2a1)

  419. This is not really news – we knew this before:

    https://nypost.com/2023/03/06/footage-shows-capitol-cop-brian-sicknick-uninjured-on-jan-6

    Maybe injured, but he seemed to be OK and certainly did not seem to be in mortal danger. He was walking around.

    Unless the medical examiner or coroner draws a connection between some assault and Sicknick’s death, the persons who may have assaulted him are in the clear from causing his death.

    The New York Times initially reported that Sicknick had been beaten to death with a fire extinguisher, before retracting the claim more than a month later.

    To this day, media accounts claim Sicknick was “slain” on Jan. 6, and powerful Democrats, including Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Nancy Pelosi, have continued to cite his death as evidence of a “deadly insurrection” at the Capitol that day.

    But hitherto unseen surveillance footage from inside the Capitol, aired by Fox News host Tucker Carlson on Monday night, contradicts that claim.

    It shows Sicknick walking through the building “after he was supposedly murdered by the mob outside.”

    Nobody says he died that day, although maybe some people want to get people to ignore or be unaware of the gap in time.

    Sicknick appears to be healthy and walking normally in the footage.

    He gesticulates to protesters to move out of the building, and bends down to move a placard behind a statue.

    He also is wearing a helmet, so, as Carlson points out, “it’s hard to imagine he was killed by a head injury.”

    Not impossible, but you can’t just say so.

    “Whatever happened to Brian Sicknick was very obviously not the result of violence he suffered at the entrance to the Capitol. This tape overturns the single most powerful and politically useful lie the Democrats have told us about January 6.”

    There are several other candidates for most useful lie or omission:

    1) That Trump caused the crowd to storm the Capitol with his words

    2) That Trump did not have a plan, that was in the process of working, to stall the certification of the Presidential election for a day. He knew it wouldn’t work and was also calling on Mike Pence to help him.

    Throughout the hearing mention of the Parliamentary procedures was not mentioned, except obliquely – it played such an important role during the day, it couldn;;t be avoided entirely.

    3) The fact that an intelligence assessment was altered between January 3 and Jan. 6 so as to say that even the rally on the Ellipse was unlikely to happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  420. Bush didn’t lie before the 2003 war, but the CIA did and even contrived to avoid answering an attempted fact check by Dick Cheney by sending Joe Wilson to Niger – and then lying about why they did so (Joe Wilson’s wife had nothing to do with it)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  421. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-face-the-nation-03-05-2023

    BRAD WENSTRUP: Well, it may be a combination of both at the end of the day. And I think it is important that we do that.

    Look, if we were taking taxpayer dollars to fund research, not only in the United States but in China, concerning this type of methodology, the creation of a chimera, or it’s called gain of function research, where you can take two viruses and put them into one, I don’t see a whole lot of commercial use for that necessarily. So, it’s something that if it’s going to take place, it certainly should have oversight or should have had oversight.

    In 2015, Ralph Baric of North Carolina, along with Dr. Zhengli Shi in China, published their article about the ability to create these chimeras. And they did that. So, we know that this technology exists….

    ….SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think that there’s enough information in the public domain to create a presumption that this could have come out of a lab, maybe a strong presumption. We have seen some incremental reporting. There’s classified information that hasn’t been made public. You heard the congressman even refer to classified information that even Congress hasn’t seen in this instance. And I think based on that premise, that there’s, you know, a likelihood that this came out of a lab, we may never be able to prove it with certainty, we should start behaving like it did come out of a lab and start taking the steps to make sure that that couldn’t happen again. There’s a lot of things that happened around the labs in China, particularly the lab in Wuhan, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, that created sloppy conditions. They were doing high-risk research in low level – low security labs. They were doing risky research. You heard the congressman talk about the gain of function research that was going on in that lab. We know the Chinese military was operating in that lab simultaneously. So, we need to look at all those things….

    …..You know, we’re still stuck on the debate about whether it was or wasn’t a lab leak. I don’t think we’re going to prove that. I think we should work on the assumption that there’s a probability that it was a lab leak and start putting in place the kinds of protections that we need.

    The congressman talked about gain of function research. He made the point that there isn’t a real commercial prerogative of doing that kind of research. I agree with him. We ought to look at whether we outlaw that kind of research. And certainly, if it’s going to take place, conduct it and be a cell-4 (ph) labs, high security labs under very strict conditions where we know what’s going on and don’t outsource it to labs in China. Sometimes the highest risk experiments get outsourced to the worst labs around the world because they’re the ones willing to do those experiments. And so if we’re going to do high risk research because we think it’s important from a national security standpoint, and that’s the only context in which this would make sense.

    There really isn’t a commercial context in which this would make sense. We need to get better control over it….

    …Now, you can’t prevent rogue regimes from doing this kind of research. That’s where the intelligence agencies come in to do monitoring to see if rogue regimes are doing high-risk research that create conditions for a lab leak, either inadvertently or deliberately….

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  422. @425 “your honor, it’s true my Client waved what looked like a gun at the bank tellers face but we maintain, it wasn’t loaded.”

    Time123 (521b20)

  423. @278 I just googled 2008 report and reuters. cnn and nyt have my view that bush lied people died. And those were the first 3 in line there were plenty more about bush lying about intelligence reports. Hyatt was what a pr person does when you try to defend the indefensible.

    asset (88e2a1)

  424. I saw an advertisement on YouTube that said Elvis Pressley did not die of a heart attack, but of an enlarged colon – in other words extreme constipation.

    It seems to check out.

    https://www.renewedhealthassocs.com/resources/elvis-presley-death/

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  425. So many errors by people writing about Covid origin. For instance that was no wet market, but a seafood market mainly.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  426. @425 “your honor, it’s true my Client waved what looked like a gun at the bank tellers face but we maintain, it wasn’t loaded.”

    Closer to: “It’s true that they found a switchblade in my clients backpack, but the spring was broken. The switchblade the prosecutor showed the jury was a different one.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  427. @423: Not one of those was a violent act and the “dangerous weapon” was never shown to be operable. So, piling on.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 3:46 pm

    I believe if you carry firearm while committing a robbery it doesn’t matter if it is operable or not. Barnett claims in his appeal that it was “non-dangerous“:

    Among the many arguments in his motion for an acquittal, Richard “Bigo” Barnett claims that the 950,000-volt stun gun seen at his hip was “non-dangerous.”……

    ……Prosecutors performed a demonstration of the weapon for the jury at his recent trial.
    ……..
    Barnett’s lawyers — Jonathan Gross, Joseph McBride, Bradford Geyer, and Carolyn Stewart — claim that those demonstrations for the jury were improper.
    ………
    The defense motion claims that prosecutors “deliberately demonstrated a Zap Hike ‘N Strike for five seconds to misrepresent the non-dangerous item and to unfairly scare the jury with the sound.”

    The attorneys also object to prosecutors calling the Zap Hike N Strike a “deadly weapon” during closing arguments, insisting it “lacks lethal capability.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  428. The attorneys also object to prosecutors calling the Zap Hike N Strike a “deadly weapon” during closing arguments, insisting it “lacks lethal capability.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/7/2023 @ 5:51 pm

    I’m sure the police officers that were tasered by their own weapons feel better about not being “lethal.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  429. I believe if you carry firearm while committing a robbery it doesn’t matter if it is operable or not.

    I think you have to at least brandish it.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  430. https://www.amazon.com/ZAP-Hike-Strike-Walking-Stick/dp/B084T2NF3J

    95 dollars! 950,000 volts off of 3 CR123A batteries (4.5Ah)

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  431. A DEWATted weapon is a question of fact for the jury. In Illinois, one Appellate Court has applied it to an inoperable automatic opening mechanism under the switchblade law.

    Another question of fact for the jury is whether a metal hiking stick is a dangerous weapon without the zap feature.

    The only straw worth grasping is that 1) it was not his inoperable stick, 2) the prosecution did not inform the jury that it was a substitute, and 3) in light of all the evidence in the record he was unduly prejudiced by the “prosecutorial misconduct”.

    nk (4809f4)

  432. If you are already a felon, it doesn’t matter.

    An Inoperable Gun Met the Statutory Definition set for at 18 U.S.C. § 921(A)(3)(A), (B) Because it Was “Designed to be a gun, Never Redesigned to be Something Else, and not so Dilapidated as to be Beyond Repair.”

    United States v. Dotson, 712 F.3d 369 (7th Cir. 2013). In prosecution for being a felon in possession of a weapon, the Court of Appeals rejected the defendant’s argument that the inoperable pistol he possessed was not “any weapon which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” or the “frame or receiver of any such weapon,” as defined at 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(A), (B). The pistol was a Hi-Point .380 caliber semi-automatic. It was designed to be a gun, and nothing else.

    But according to the pretrial report of an expert at the Justice Department’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, at the time when the defendant possessed the gun it was inoperable because of “significant damage, missing/broken parts, and extensive corrosion.” The expert testified similarly at trial—testified that the gun was “damage[d]” and had “corroded, missing and broken components which make it inoperable.” There was no dispute that the gun could not “expel a projectile” and it could not be “readily . . . converted” to do so in any reasonable amount of time. Thus, the only question was whether the gun “is designed” to expel a projectile by means of an explosive. The defendant argued that the damage to the gun was such that it was no longer a weapon designed to expel a projectile. The damage had changed the characteristics of the gun and therefor its design.

    The government, however, argued that a gun is always a gun, regardless of any latter damage which may occur to it. The court rejected both extremes and went through a series of hypotheticals demonstrating why both extremes were untenable. Instead, the court looked to the gun used in this case, end held that it met the statutory definition because it was “designed to be a gun, never redesigned to be something else, and not so dilapidated as to be beyond repair.” Thus, it met the statutory definition.

    See also United States v. Rivera. Paragraph breaks added.

    In any case, the Barnett claimed his zapper was inoperative right up to the point the prosecution demonstrated it wasn’t.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  433. Scumbag Schumer called on Fox to shut down Tucker. Called him an enemy of democracy. Did this from his position of authority as Senate Majority Leader and in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the United States

    Who keeps siding with this traitor?

    NJRob (3cb3f1)

  434. @444. There is one glaring error Tucka makes that NewCorp should correct- as do those appearing on his program[s] referencing any of his opinions. Carlson keeps making references to ‘journalism’– and others refer to him on occasion, on air as pursuing ‘journalistic’ efforts. To be clear: Tucker Carlson is NOT a journalist. He was hired as an opinionator; a host; a ‘talk show pundit’ “tucked” into the Fox US prime time opinionator line-up by NewsCorp., execs. Carlson is entertainment- just as the late Rush Limbaugh was– and often used that umbrella as a shield from any heat on his opinionating. Tucka is no more a journalist than Dick Cavett was when he did his ‘Watergate’ shows on ABC in the ’70s.

    DCSCA (9c5a24)

  435. A Zap stick, never used as a Zap stick, and never used to threaten anyone, is just a stick. The reason that they don’t know if it was operational is that he never used it in a way that was threatening. It was in the video, they determined later what it was and added the charge.

    This is not the same thing at all as pointing an uloaded gun at someone.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  436. 446:

    I guess you’ll believe what you want to believe.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  437. Did this from his position of authority as Senate Majority Leader and in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the United States

    1. He has no position of authority over any person. He can’t even write parking tickets.
    2. As such, he’s just another blowhard, spouting off.
    3. Since he’s a senator, he can say whatever he wants. And he does.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  438. But from my position of authority as a blog commenter, I say that Fox ought to fire both Tucker and Hannity!!1!1!!

    And, once they lose the lawsuit, they certainly will, for cause.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  439. Did this from his position of authority as Senate Majority Leader and in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the United States

    1. He has no position of authority over any person. He can’t even write parking tickets.
    2. As such, he’s just another blowhard, spouting off.
    3. Since he’s a senator, he can say whatever he wants. And he does.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 9:42 pm

    As a senator he can chill Fox’s speech with unconstitutionally coercive threats to pass laws Fox wouldn’t like, compel embarrassing testimony and other onerous compliance, etc. I doubt that, by itself, saying Hannity and Carlson should be fired is unconstitutionally coercive, but that doesn’t mean its not a real concern.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  440. Kevin M – I am into that sort of thing, and have had an account on DIME for more than a decade. So I thank you for the notice. 🙂

    But mostly I just wanted to pass on an interesting fact about a long-absent-from-this-sphere mutual friend.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  441. @446 I wish you would be more accurate. It is the liberal democratic establishment who wanted revenge not the left. We have other important issues. I don’t believe any member of the squad was on the jan. 6 committee. These were all corporate establishment democrats. The left is always being accused for what the establishment liberal do.

    asset (9e9b27)

  442. “Tucka is no more a journalist than Dick Cavett”

    Technically true, but does the casual viewer make the distinction between journalism and punditry. My impression is that the average Tucker watcher believes they’re getting the news and how to think about the news without the liberal commie spin. That he is making sense of the news for them. It’s a twofer.

    Sure it’s loaded with opinion and dramatic confrontation. It’s not fair or balanced. It doesn’t seek objective truth. And he’s not really accountable for misleading people. There’s no sense of correcting the record. There’s no careful editting and meticulous source checking. It’s like Jon Stewart “news” without the occasional laughs.

    But it’s blurred in with actual news on FNC and his viewers trust him….trust him more than CNN, ABC, or NBC news sources. They will argue that those journalist sources aren’t fair or balanced so what’s the difference? He’s talking sense and not washing the news through political correctness and liberal sensibilities. He’s asking hard questions just like a journalist should. We draw a conclusion that the average watcher isn’t straining to make. This is how they want to take in news….just like those watching Rachel Maddow.

    It’s still a problem because it pushes people out of the gray area that affords compromise and keeps them polarized. You do hear the opinions echoed so they do become mainstream.

    AJ_Liberty (f7f421)

  443. I don’t like Schumer’s statements.

    1. He has a 1A right to express his opinion about Fox News. There’s nothing in his statement to indicate that he’s threatening to use government power against Fox if they don’t do as he pleases. I don’t see any veiled threats. I think his statement is legally permissible. (IANAL)
    2 . He has a moral obligation to support free speech and because of that he should not have made this specific statement. The fact that he did makes him a bad leader and someone that people who care about free speech shouldn’t vote for or support.
    3. His many previous inaccurate statements and lies have made him someone whose statements shouldn’t be taken very seriously.
    4. It’s unfortunate that he holds a position of power in the Democratic Party.

    Time123 (10316a)

  444. “People that feel it is ok to keep someone who is obviously NOT a threat to society locked away for 2 years without bail are fascists and monsters. Full stop.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  445. 446:

    I guess you’ll believe what you want to believe.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/7/2023 @ 9:40 pm

    Kev…he’s not wrong though. You can make the case that Tucker’s presentation is too sympathetic (I’d agree with that), but you cannot take the Democrat’s presentation as straightforward either.

    The scandal, if you will, of the J6 tapes is that Democrats seemingly framed the videos to push a misleading narrative via the inherent control over the videos.

    It is not that the shaman dude did *nothing* wrong or that *all* those arrested are innocent. Democrats want that to be the argument b/c it’s a loser publicly.

    The main thrust here is that there’s a real sense of overcharging and dogpiling here, and we still haven’t gotten a good answer whether or not the various defenses had access to ALL of the videos. I hope it’s a case of, and I’m paraphrasing nk, the defense truly had all the information and didn’t think it was wise to take it to jury trial and worked a plea deal to avoid the a worse outcome.

    whembly (d116f3)

  446. Tucker Carlson ‘passionately’ hates Trump, and eight more key revelations about Fox News from new Dominion filings

    In legal filings made public Tuesday as part of Dominion Voting Systems’ $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against the right-wing channel, a trove of private text messages, emails, and deposition transcripts offered a new look at how the sausage is made behind the scenes at the channel — and it is ugly.
    ….
    Carlson “passionately” hates Trump: In a number of private text messages, Carlson was harshly critical of Trump. In one November 2020 exchange, Carlson said Trump’s decision to snub Joe Biden’s inauguration was “so destructive.” Carlson added that Trump’s post-election behavior was “disgusting” and that he was “trying to look away.” In another text message conversation, two days before the January 6 attack, Carlson said, “We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can’t wait.” Carlson added of Trump, “I hate him passionately.” The Fox host said of the Trump presidency, “That’s the last four years. We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There isn’t really an upside to Trump.”

    nk (047675)

  447. Tucker isn’t…. wrong ya know.

    whembly (d116f3)

  448. “Democrats seemingly framed the videos to push a misleading narrative”

    What was the misleading narrative?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  449. @460

    “Democrats seemingly framed the videos to push a misleading narrative”

    What was the misleading narrative?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 3/8/2023 @ 7:07 am

    Paraphrasing, but that it was a “white-supremacist domestic terrorists engaged in an insurrection, besieging the Capitol at the exhortation of an out-of-control president and leaving our democracy hanging by a thread.”

    That narrative.

    whembly (d116f3)

  450. Tucker isn’t…. wrong ya know.

    No, no, he is not. And quotable, too.

    There isn’t really an upside to Trump. — Tucker Carlson”

    Almost epigrammatic.

    nk (047675)

  451. @nk

    What’s you take on this?

    @McBrideLawNYC
    Replying to
    @McBrideLawNYC
    and 2 others
    To be clear, all CCTV footage is marked highly sensitive by the DOJ. Meaning that even after obtaining a license to view it, defendants need supervision. They cannot view our outside of the presence of their attorney. They cannot rip it apart and digest it as homework.
    8:06 AM · Mar 8, 2023

    Is that a normal process?

    I plead ignorance here… but doesn’t the defense typically get video evidence in their own possession for review? It seems weird that there’s this strict level of control.

    Unless these CCTV are normally “marked highly sensitive”?

    whembly (d116f3)

  452. I don’t give much weight to a guy who privately said he hates Trump but has given him a years-long political tongue bath when the television lights came on.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  453. I don’t know, whembly. I am not familiar with that situation. But it is the usual procedure for physical evidence and exhibits.

    nk (047675)

  454. Whembly, who do you feel was overcharged? Chansley is the poster boy and there’s video of him breaking in and he’s admitted to shouting “This is not peaceful” as he entered.

    He got 4 years, but he’s one of the people who violently attacked the police and broke in….seems like 4 years isn’t an unreasonable sentence.

    Time123 (10316a)

  455. @466

    Whembly, who do you feel was overcharged? Chansley is the poster boy and there’s video of him breaking in and he’s admitted to shouting “This is not peaceful” as he entered.

    He got 4 years, but he’s one of the people who violently attacked the police and broke in….seems like 4 years isn’t an unreasonable sentence.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/8/2023 @ 7:49 am

    Chansely wasn’t even charged with anything violent. Did I miss the charging document that he assaulted the police?

    I thought he was the guy who left that threatening note to Pence, but I might’ve been thinking of someone else?

    Chansley was on the loudspeaker outside, so I’m sure that was an aggravating aspect to his sentencing.

    Having said that, 4 years I think is insane for obstruction of congress to be honest.

    But that really is that issue, per se, as I think Chansley and his original attorney made the calculation to take the plea deal, rather than taking it to court. It’s hard to deny that there wasn’t going to be a fair trial or fair sentencing in DC.

    The issue to me, is twofold:
    1) I don’t know yet if this is accurate and it seems to be likely though… the DOJ didn’t get all the CCTV videos in timely manner. The Courts ruled that this wasn’t a Brady violation because DOJ didn’t have the power to force Congress to turn it over. Nor does the defense have that power either. But, if this is true, it’s an injustice for one arm of government to withhold evidence from the other arm while a defendant’s life weighs in the balance. I think its worth chasing this rabbit down, as history is stacked with the government playing these shenanigans against the defendents.

    2) The other issue I have, is the disparity in prosecutions and sentencings compared to other riots that were far more violent and damaging. In other riots around the country, including DC, the federal government has either decided to not prosecute (except in severe cases) or given the equivalent of a ticket.

    And for the folks wondering why there’s an uptick in the #NationalDivorce discussions? Look no further than the perceptions of #2 above.

    whembly (d116f3)

  456. whembly (d116f3) — 3/7/2023 @ 8:43 am

    not only did Democrats/J6 committee have access to these video records from the get go, the records show that they viewed the video of Sicknick obviously alive on J6, so they knew the claims of his murder were a blatant lie.

    We all knew, after a few days when the time of death and of his stroke became clear, and when we heard what time his family member spoke to him

    And they continued to peddle those lies anyway.

    Yes, and to obfusticate.

    https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1632915940399624199

    It was all about maintaining their preferred partisan narrative.

    They were not satisfied with the truth, and wanted to turn ALL peeople against the Jan 7 riot soo they said a policeman was killed – and then counted suicides also.

    Sammy Finkelman (4ea0e9)

  457. “white-supremacist domestic terrorists engaged in an insurrection, besieging the Capitol at the exhortation of an out-of-control president and leaving our democracy hanging by a thread”

    But what was misleading? There were white supremacist groups that acted in a coordinated fashion to force their way into the Capitol (Three Percenters, The Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, Texas Freedom Force, etc.). Now push comes to shove, I question whether any of those actors would have actually tried to abduct Nancy Pelosi or hang Mike Pence. In the end, there was no siege and the violence stopped at assaulting the police and damaging the building. Still, a lack of escalation was because the cops chose not to and the security details weren’t pushed beyond a certain point. But some of that is dumb luck and chance. Ashli Babbitt’s luck ran out.

    So what do we call January 6th? Insurrection gets used because an official proceeding was disrupted with the hope that some sort of alternative electoral vote count would happen. Again, it didn’t make much sense and it had a really low probability of success, but this whole drama was discussed and schemed by advisors to Trump. Heck, Trump seems to have legitimately thought that Pence should have pulled that trigger. The intent was to at minimum disrupt democracy, with the Supreme Court being the bulwark. So maybe “insurrection” becomes “mob action” to lodge their disapproval with Pence’s disloyalty in not following through with an unconstitutional scheme. But how much does that subtle distinction matter…and to who?

    Now was Trump out of control? Did the committee succeed in demonstrating that Trump’s top people, including his attorney general and top election people, tell him that he lost and that the electoral college vote scheme was unwise? Yes, yet Trump still pushed for it and even went as far to demand that he go to the Capitol to ostensibly lend his support and encouragement for the mob. Is that in control? Is it stable that he continues pushing a narrative without meaningful evidence? Was it appropriate that it took Trump so long to actually call off the mob and intervene in any meaningful fashion? Is it a sign of great leadership that Trump did not even contact Pence to make sure he was ok or to coordinate with the country’s top security individuals? I remain baffled that we never got any accountability from the Executive Branch regarding the day’s events, as if asking for that just falls under political and partisan.

    A good number of GOP representatives were tainted by the Electoral Vote scheme and for rhetorically supporting the stolen election meme. It’s hard to have people who are material witnesses..at minimum…jump in and run the investigation competently. My concern is that many of the people who question “the narrative” ignored the committee proceedings, maybe only checking in via partisan media, and believed that the country was owed no explanation by team Trump. Spin and conspiracy turning has been all we get. Now there’s a narrative that needs some exploration.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  458. Soviet tribunals had a 100% conviction rate with 100% of the accused “admitting guilt”.

    Be proud, federal government!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  459. These videos really capture what happened on January 6th, and won’t be shown by Tucko.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  460. Whembly, here’s a video of Chansley being part of the crowd that busted down the doors to the capital.

    If you want to look up the charging documents he was also yelling “this is not peaceful”

    He’s one of the violent ones from Kevin’s group 4.
    He wasn’t a tourist. He’s a political extremist that used force to try and prevent the transfer of power.

    What sentence do you feel is appropriate for that?

    Time123 (d65f9c)

  461. Technically true, but does the casual viewer make the distinction between journalism and punditry…

    You’re projecting an assumption. And NewsCorp has not made a secret of their prime time block being commentary/opinion programming transitioning off of the ay blocks of more straight news– and the prime time opinionators themselves occasionally remind viewers that they are expressing opinions and a POV, too. Limbaugh, who spun opinion as entertainment, not as a news source, did as well. And, of course, simple supers of ‘commentary’ at start, finish or during programming is a solution as well.

    DCSCA (100787)

  462. 2) The other issue I have, is the disparity in prosecutions and sentencings compared to other riots that were far more violent and damaging. In other riots around the country, including DC, the federal government has either decided to not prosecute (except in severe cases) or given the equivalent of a ticket.

    And for the folks wondering why there’s an uptick in the #NationalDivorce discussions? Look no further than the perceptions of #2 above.

    Most of the ppl arrested got bail (rightfully so)
    Most of the ppl arrested were charged with misdemeanor counts of parading or trespassing.

    There were a large number of violent ppl there that physically assaulted the police.

    These facts have been dishonestly obscured by RW media who dishonestly present that the DOJ has been over charging and the courts have been denying bail unfairly.

    In this case Tucker is trying to present a violent political extremist as s tourist who did little wrong.

    Given that part of your complaint is based on incorrect information, and that you’re one of the more thoughtful and reasonable people I interact with online, I don’t see much hope in calming things down.

    Seriously, how do we address the complaint that Jan 6 criminals are being treated unfairly when they aren’t?

    Here’s a database the DOJ maintains on this.

    Who on the list do you think has been most unfairly treated?

    Time123 (10316a)

  463. There isn’t really an upside to Trump.

    Not true. Judges. Hillary would have appointed very different people. The Supreme Court would be 6-3 left-wing statists. That is a huge upside. There are, however, downsides.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  464. Paraphrasing, but that it was a “white-supremacist domestic terrorists engaged in an insurrection, besieging the Capitol at the exhortation of an out-of-control president and leaving our democracy hanging by a thread.”

    Well, it also wasn’t “main street patriots peacefully demonstrating their concerns.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  465. Whembley’s second point is that we’ve all seen violent protests that do not result in arrests or prosecution, and even if they do, the book is rarely thrown.

    This goes back to things like the Capitol bombing, where the admitted bomber was never prosecuted, or the Chicago Convention riot where the perpetrators were lauded by the press and the Left, going so far as becoming elected legislators. These things stick in the mind.

    We have Congresspeople inviting protesters to the SotU, and they somehow get in with protest material that they use to disrupt.

    Even recently, we have insurrections in several cities (some of which continue to this day) and nothing like the level of outrage that the J6 activities engendered. One cannot help but believe that this is due to the political bent of the insurrectionists, and if sides are being picked, people will pick sides.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  466. This story is far more complex – and far less favorable to the Democrats on the J6 Committee – than we’ve been told. More info and actual transparency is better than being left with the disingenuously curated Jan6 committee bullsh*t.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  467. There is still no getting around the fact that entry into the Capitol was by force, police were attacked viciously, some of the intruders intended harm to occupants, some intended to kill, and that they ALL knew that some of the places in that building were seriously off limits.

    I don’t see how anyone could enter through a broken window, or across barricades and think is was OK. It was a violent act and the Rubicon was clearly crossed.

    Individuals may be worthy of mercy, or even understanding, but those that led them, those that incited them should feel the awful majesty of the Law.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  468. “Not true. Judges.”

    The context seemed to be moving forward with Trump, and the truth is that most Republicans these days will appoint right-leaning judges. Some moderates, maybe not, but there’s certainly no upside to sticking with Trump at this point over just about any other candidate.

    “and the prime time opinionators themselves occasionally remind viewers that they are expressing opinions and a POV”

    I agree and especially saw that with O’Reilly. The problem is that when O’Reilly (and other opinionators) would interview people, they are creating news and using the adversarial process to challenge the individual’s points (sometimes the guest might also just be expressing an opinion, sometimes they may be giving a reasoned view of facts). Interviews are a standard part of journalism and media reporting. So there’s a blurring here. In the end the interview might be biased crap and be bad journalism, but it can be different from straight opinion.

    Liz Cheney: “My deepest sympathies for the family of U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. Officer Sicknick was killed defending our Capitol from the violent mob on January 6. Please keep Brian and his family in your prayers.”

    whembley: “She knew this was a lie.”

    First, fact checking a condolence seems a bit peevish. Second, as others said, it’s unclear what she knew at the time she wrote it. It could just be a mistaken understanding early in the events. Third, given that he died of strokes, it is at least possible that the physical exertion of fighting at the Capitol could have been a contributing factor. So Cheney’s statement could be amended by simply inserting “as a result of” which is rarely distinguished for someone in service. Fourth, why would Cheney need to publicly correct something that the family would not care about, the police force would not care about, and most rational people would excuse as an honest mistake? Condolences may frequently put a death in the most positive light. Sicknick fought bravely and he died shortly after of strokes. Again, it’s a bit ghoulish to insist that Cheney go back and take that away from the family. Fifth, this is what makes you lose respect for someone? Find me a politician that has never misstated something and then failed to formally correct it. You will be a busy beaver expressing outrage daily here. This is an impossible standard that would disqualify just about everyone, especially in this context.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  469. An Associated Press review of court documents in more than 300 federal cases stemming from the protests sparked by George Floyd’s death last year shows that dozens of people charged have been convicted of serious crimes and sent to prison.

    The AP found that more than 120 defendants across the United States have pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial of federal crimes including rioting, arson and conspiracy. More than 70 defendants who’ve been sentenced so far have gotten an average of about 27 months behind bars. At least 10 received prison terms of five years or more.

    “The property damage or accusations of arson and looting from last year, those were serious and they were dealt with seriously, but they weren’t an attack on the very core constitutional processes that we rely on in a democracy, nor were they an attack on the United States Congress,” said Kent Greenfield, a professor at Boston College Law School.

    Source

    While this is an older article (from 2021) there have not been any protests to rival the George Floyd protests.

    See also here.

    The difference is the nature of the crimes and the focus of media attention. Most of the crimes committed during the George Floyd protests were not federal crimes and were handled in state courts. Many defendants were charged with misdemeanors (curfew violations, failure to obey, obstructing a highway) and received deferred prosecution deals. And many defendants had charges dismissed because of police misconduct while trying to control the protests.

    President Trump’s rally focused the media’s attention on Washington DC and the certification of the Electoral College vote. It was bound to receive more national coverage than protests in individual cities.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  470. @478. 40,000 hours worth of Zapruder film…

    DCSCA (fbdf66)

  471. @474

    Seriously, how do we address the complaint that Jan 6 criminals are being treated unfairly when they aren’t?

    Here’s a database the DOJ maintains on this.

    Who on the list do you think has been most unfairly treated?

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/8/2023 @ 9:54 am

    I think I’ve been pretty clear where I stand and happy to clarify.

    I have zero objection to holding violent people accountable.

    What I mean about being “treated unfairly”, is the double standards.

    On the one hand, the J6 rioters have had the proverbial “books” thrown at them. In a vacuum, I’m in the FAFO camp.

    ON the other, the prosecution of other riots, including the one near the Whitehouse grounds that drove Trump to the basement, were not pursued with the same zealoustry as shown by the J6 prosecutions.

    whembly (d116f3)

  472. @476 Paraphrasing, but that it was a “white-supremacist domestic terrorists engaged in an insurrection, besieging the Capitol at the exhortation of an out-of-control president and leaving our democracy hanging by a thread.”

    Well, it also wasn’t “main street patriots peacefully demonstrating their concerns.”

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/8/2023 @ 10:10 am
    Absolutely true, and I wasn’t trying to convey that either.

    I’m not trying to whitewash this, but pleading with ya’ll to take a more nuanced position.

    whembly (d116f3)

  473. @477

    Whembley’s second point is that we’ve all seen violent protests that do not result in arrests or prosecution, and even if they do, the book is rarely thrown.

    This goes back to things like the Capitol bombing, where the admitted bomber was never prosecuted, or the Chicago Convention riot where the perpetrators were lauded by the press and the Left, going so far as becoming elected legislators. These things stick in the mind.

    We have Congresspeople inviting protesters to the SotU, and they somehow get in with protest material that they use to disrupt.

    Even recently, we have insurrections in several cities (some of which continue to this day) and nothing like the level of outrage that the J6 activities engendered. One cannot help but believe that this is due to the political bent of the insurrectionists, and if sides are being picked, people will pick sides.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/8/2023 @ 10:24 am

    Exactamundo!

    If you’re one of those who’s tired of hearing the #NationDivorce discussions (as I am too), it’s this unequal application of the law is one of those things that drives that conversation.

    whembly (d116f3)

  474. “Journalism”… I remember back to 1973-74 timeframe when the media was screaming “we need it ALL!” when they were informed that there was an 18 minute gap on the Nixon tapes.

    Now we have so-called journalists acting as publicists for the Democrat Party and all Democrat politicians. It’s obvious to some – but obviously not all – that this is an untenable situation deserving remedial action.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  475. but there’s certainly no upside to sticking with Trump at this point over just about any other candidate.

    Oh, I agree. And I was dragged kicking and screaming to that nomination. But if we are asking “Trump or Hillary” and not “Trump or Cruz or Rubio” then the answer is that Trump was better than Hillary.

    Now, it may be like asking “would you rather date a ‘1’ or a ‘2’?”, but that ship had sailed.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  476. Like so many other Republicans with their heads in the sand, Tucker wrongly thought that the “demonic force” would fade away after the insurrection that Trump stoked, and now he’s sanitizing a riot because there was no fade, for the sake of ratings.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  477. @480

    Liz Cheney: “My deepest sympathies for the family of U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. Officer Sicknick was killed defending our Capitol from the violent mob on January 6. Please keep Brian and his family in your prayers.”

    whembley: “She knew this was a lie.”

    First, fact checking a condolence seems a bit peevish. Second, as others said, it’s unclear what she knew at the time she wrote it. It could just be a mistaken understanding early in the events. Third, given that he died of strokes, it is at least possible that the physical exertion of fighting at the Capitol could have been a contributing factor. So Cheney’s statement could be amended by simply inserting “as a result of” which is rarely distinguished for someone in service. Fourth, why would Cheney need to publicly correct something that the family would not care about, the police force would not care about, and most rational people would excuse as an honest mistake? Condolences may frequently put a death in the most positive light. Sicknick fought bravely and he died shortly after of strokes. Again, it’s a bit ghoulish to insist that Cheney go back and take that away from the family. Fifth, this is what makes you lose respect for someone? Find me a politician that has never misstated something and then failed to formally correct it. You will be a busy beaver expressing outrage daily here. This is an impossible standard that would disqualify just about everyone, especially in this context.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 3/8/2023 @ 11:47 am

    Per bolded text above…

    Yes. Absolutely and her behavior/conduct during J6 committee.

    She had an obligation to get the truth out, and turn the temperature down on the rhetoric based on that falsehood. The fact she allowed it to perpetuate, even though we all knew pretty soon afterwards, is a mark of a coward who’s only goal to maintain her desired (and J6’s) narrative.

    whembly (d116f3)

  478. pleading with ya’ll to take a more nuanced position.

    I think I’m doing that. Heck, I’m taking several.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  479. @490 Aye, you are!

    whembly (d116f3)

  480. This goes back to things like the Capitol bombing, where the admitted bomber was never prosecuted…..

    It depends on which bombing. The charges against Bill Ayers for the 1971 bombing (52 years ago on March 1st) were dismissed at the government’s request due to FBI misconduct. The suspects in the 1983 bombing were convicted and sentenced to lengthy prison terms, which were commuted by President Clinton (after serving about 11 years). And while the suspect in the 1915 bombing was arrested, he committed suicide in prison before trial.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  481. “While I admit that I approach these stories from the perspective of a long-standing criminal defense attorney, I would be outraged if I was unable to see such evidence before a plea or sentencing. At no point in the videotapes does Chansley appear violent or threatening. Indeed, he appears to thank the officers for their guidance and assistance.

    Before addressing the legal implications of this footage, one thing should be clear. The public should have been given access to this footage long ago and the Jan. 6th Committee withheld important evidence on what occurred inside the Capitol on that day.

    While it is understandable that many would object to Carlson being given an exclusive in the initial release, many in the media are denouncing the release of the footage to the public at all. The press and pundits are now opposing greater transparency in resisting any contradiction of the narrative put forward by the Jan. 6th Committee. Indeed, MSNBC’s Jason Johnson angrily objected that this is “federal evidence” — ignoring that it is evidence that was denied to criminal defendants.

    This is not just material that the public should be able to see, it was potential evidence in criminal cases like that of the QAnon Shaman.

    When the footage aired, I wrote a column raising the question of whether this evidence was known to or shared with Chansley’s defense. After all, he was portrayed as a violent offender by the Justice Department at his sentencing.

    It now appears that the answer is no. I spoke with Chansley’s new counsel, Bill Shipley, and confirmed that defense counsel did not have this material.

    In the hearing, federal prosecutor Kimberly Paschall played videos showing Chansley yelling along with the crowd and insisted “that is not peaceful.”

    That portrayal of Chansley would have been more difficult to maintain if the Court was allowed to see images of Chansley casually walking through a door of the Capitol with hundreds of other protesters and then being escorted by officers through the Capitol. At no point is he violent and at no point is he shown destroying evidence. Instead, he dutifully follows the officers who facilitate his going eventually to the unoccupied Senate floor.

    We all knew that Chansley was treated more harshly because of his visibility. It was his costume, not his conduct, that seemed to drive the sentencing. In the hearing, Judge Royce Lamberth noted, “He made himself the image of the riot, didn’t he? For good or bad, he made himself the very image of this whole event.”

    —- Jonathan Turley

    41 months in federal prison for a bad costume!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  482. Leanna Wen says many have lost faith in our public health officials. And she has, unfortunately, had to face that, herself:

    I’ve experienced this myself. When I supported lockdowns in March 2020, I was called a fearmonger bent on taking away people’s livelihoods. When I promoted vaccines, anti-vaccine advocates accused me of “mass murder” for pushing “experimental” injections on people. I received hundreds of threatening messages. The FBI arrested two people for threats against me and my family; one pleaded guilty and is serving six months in federal prison.

    (Links omitted.)

    And there is more to her story.

    She ends by making this point:

    At its core, public health wrestles with the tension between individual liberty and communal good. People should be able to do what they wish without interference from the government. But if someone’s actions endanger those around them, the need to protect the larger group could outweigh this basic right to self-determination.

    But when is that warranted? Science alone can’t provide the answer.

    There is a recent example of that tension here in Washington state. A woman with tuberculosis began treatment, and then stopped. She was told, repeatedly, by a court that she should continue treatment, or quarantine herself for months. An arrest warrant has been issued, but she has not, as far as I know, been arrested, yet.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  483. One of the things that I have concluded — in retrospect — about the COVID epidemic is that a competent and decent president would have tried to make our effort against the disease bipartisan, as we did, for example, in World War II.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  484. On the one hand, the J6 rioters have had the proverbial “books” thrown at them. In a vacuum, I’m in the FAFO camp.

    ON the other, the prosecution of other riots, including the one near the Whitehouse grounds that drove Trump to the basement, were not pursued with the same zealoustry as shown by the J6 prosecutions.

    I’m maintaining that the charging of the Jan 6 defendants was mild and will in line with established law. The DOJ has not thrown the book at them and has in many many cases allowed ppl to plead to misdemeanors with a fine and supervision.

    Time123 (10316a)

  485. @497

    I’m maintaining that the charging of the Jan 6 defendants was mild and will in line with established law. The DOJ has not thrown the book at them and has in many many cases allowed ppl to plead to misdemeanors with a fine and supervision.

    Time123 (10316a) — 3/8/2023 @ 1:06 pm

    Okay buddy, we’ll need to agree to disagree here.

    whembly (d116f3)

  486. CH, Turley is lying. Here’s a link showing Chansley committing violent acts and forcing his way into the capital.

    The prosecution doesn’t have to show that he was a violent madman for the entire time. (It’s good that the police’s de-escalation tactics work) they have to show that he broke the law. Video at the link does that.

    But my all means continue with the fiction that the Q-Anon guy, who is on video breaking into the capital carrying a spear and wearing a Buffalo headdress, who is on record as yelling ‘this is not’ peaceful, who admitted under oath that he did what he was charged with has been wrongly convicted.

    Time123 (10316a)

  487. “She had an obligation to get the truth out, and turn the temperature down on the rhetoric based on that falsehood.”

    Do you know that his strokes were not influenced by the stress of fighting off the people surging into the Capitol?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  488. @497, Who from the data base do you feel had the book thrown at them? Who do you feel was over charged? Who do you feel was sentenced unfairly? Be specific?

    Time123 (078d81)

  489. Based on my post here, the J6 defendants, except for the most egregious assaults, have been gifted light sentences.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  490. Do you know that his strokes were not influenced by the stress of fighting off the people surging into the Capitol?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 3/8/2023 @ 1:12 pm

    Government’s job to prove a case. Not the other way around.

    But good job trying to muddy the waters.

    She slandered everyone there with her actions from Jan 6th till her disgraceful forced retirement.

    NJRob (3d5663)

  491. NJRobb checking in with the OJ was innocent point of view.

    Time123 (078d81)

  492. @500

    “She had an obligation to get the truth out, and turn the temperature down on the rhetoric based on that falsehood.”

    Do you know that his strokes were not influenced by the stress of fighting off the people surging into the Capitol?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 3/8/2023 @ 1:12 pm

    No one knows for sure. Certainly not in court either.

    Speculating that he was “murdered” due to the stress of the riot is a stretch, and in this context, was an extremely inflammable statement that pushed the rhetoric of the day.

    It was a riot, and a bad one too.

    But far from an “insurrection” or any other fabulist hyperbole pushed by Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself).

    whembly (d116f3)

  493. Whembly what singe word would you use to describe hundreds of people violently attacking the police and seizing control of the capital in an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after their preferred candidate lost the election?

    I mean, I’m happy to just describe it like that. Theres vast amounts of evidence that that’s exactly what happened. But it’s a mouthful.

    I don’t know the extent to which the injuries sicknick sustained contributed to his death. The police and his family think it was a major factor, but they’d want his death to be heroic and not just just a random thing. I agree that your political opponents are highlighting it because it makes the hundreds of people violently attacking the police and seizing control of the capital in an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after their preferred candidate lost the election less sympathetic (see it’s a mouthful). But since I think what they did, and the excuses being made for it are a lot worse then a single murder I’m not as invested in the question.

    Time123 (078d81)

  494. Time123 coming in with the lies and trolling again.

    Thanks for doing your part.

    NJRob (9b21aa)

  495. The service Tucker has done is that he’s shown that the vast majority of people on Jan 6th wrre peaceful, milling about and calm.

    Those are the people the media and leftist government hid from view to proclaim the lie od an insurrection and to stomp on and silence those who don’t support their point of view.

    NJRob (9b21aa)

  496. After they’d torn down the barricades and beaten the police into submission the Trump supporters were much calmer. They walked past the wreckage with barely a 2nd look and allow ppl like Rob to pretend they were just tourists.

    Time123 (078d81)

  497. That’s how mobs behave. Like dogs who caught the car. With nobody handy to attack, they mill around.

    nk (047675)

  498. The charges against Bill Ayers for the 1971 bombing (52 years ago on March 1st) were dismissed at the government’s request due to FBI misconduct.

    This misses the point, which was that the very guilty bomber was lauded by left-wing society, rather than shunning and ostracizing which has been visited on much less culpable people fron J6.

    Ayer’s billionaire father hired a legal team that showed that some of the FBI’s wiretaps against the Weather Underground were illegal and the charges were thrown out.

    Later, the bomber (he also bombed the Pentagon) was given a lifetime sinecure at the University of Illinois, holding the titles of Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar. He was also an acquaintance of Barack Obama.

    Tell me how many J6 defendants will be given professorships at state schools. The point that was being made is that Justice is not blind to your political leanings. The fact that charges were thrown out on technicalities does not mean he didn’t bomb the Senate cloakroom.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  499. Off topic

    +++++++++++

    Asia Times – Ukraine Is Going To Lose

    There’s a notion floating around the Internet that the current conflict in Ukraine is going to remain a static war of attrition that will bleed the Russian army dry. So what if it decimates Ukraine’s society and eradicates most of its population? At least the dreaded Russian war machine will have been ground to a halt in the killing fields of Ukraine.

    Those believing this narrative are living in a fantasy.

    Fact is, the Ukrainian military is drained, the Western supply chains are strained, and the NATO stockpiles of critical weapons and ammunition are depleted. The war is transitioning, therefore, into a conflict in which the Russian side will enjoy several critical advantages.

    For those under the impression that the attritional warfare will lead to a negotiated settlement: Fat chance!

    Moscow is now totally all-in on this conflict. The window of opportunity to have gotten a settlement is closed. Unless Russia loses significantly soon (which it does not appear to be in danger of, if the Battle of Bakhmut is any indication), the Russians’ numerical superiority over Ukraine’s force structure alone will ensure that they achieve the victory they’ve been waiting for.

    The outcome of this war, a defeat for Ukraine and its NATO backers, was totally avoidable.

    Read the rest at: Asia Times – Ukraine Is Going To Lose

    Horatio (a1305f)

  500. What does Pravda say, Horatio?

    nk (047675)

  501. That article isn’t very convincing, Horatio.

    The author bounces from “Ukraine can’t win” to “unless Russia starts to lose soon”, and from “a Ukrainian offensive to take Crimea will fail” to “if the offensive works, Russia will break out the nukes”.

    It smells like Tuckyo’s Putin propaganda to me.

    norcal (7345e5)

  502. @506

    Whembly what singe word would you use to describe hundreds of people violently attacking the police and seizing control of the capital in an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after their preferred candidate lost the election?

    I mean, I’m happy to just describe it like that. Theres vast amounts of evidence that that’s exactly what happened. But it’s a mouthful.

    A riot.

    It was a riot. And there was no “seizing control of the capital” nor any meaningful plans to “prevent the peaceful transfer of power”.

    Call it for what it was: A really bad riot.

    Riots are bad. There’s no such thing as a “good” riot, or mostly peaceful “riot”.

    The people who participated in assaulting the police and breaking down doors/windows are riot participants.

    Those participating in rioting are to be condemned.

    I’m NOT saying no one should face consequences.

    Take buffalo shaman dude for example. While I think his punishment was excessive, I can see why they took that plea bargain since he was looking at decades of imprisonment if DOJ sought the maximum.

    He got forty-one months, not 41 years or 410 years. The punishment he received doesn’t fit as someone who was participating in a legit insurrection.

    A riot, rather than “hundreds of people violently attacking the police and seizing control of the capital in an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after their preferred candidate lost the election” is more than sufficient to describe the event that transpired on J6.

    I don’t know the extent to which the injuries sicknick sustained contributed to his death. The police and his family think it was a major factor, but they’d want his death to be heroic and not just just a random thing.

    I can empathize from their perspective, and dealing with a loss like that it’s easy to scapegoat. But, I think it’s much more important to be as accurate as possible, not to wish it were so otherwise.

    I agree that your political opponents are highlighting it because it makes the hundreds of people violently attacking the police and seizing control of the capital in an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after their preferred candidate lost the election less sympathetic (see it’s a mouthful). But since I think what they did, and the excuses being made for it are a lot worse then a single murder I’m not as invested in the question.

    Time123 (078d81) — 3/8/2023 @ 2:23 pm

    I’m invested it in only insofar as to applying one standard as possible (which is not always possible, but it is something we all should strive for). Because to do so otherwise, only inflames and allows the separate sides to stay entrenched to their preferred stances.

    whembly (1a398e)

  503. This is not the Art of the Deal, where one side makes concessions while the other side gets more territory for “peace”, despite the other side’s record of broken promises. This is what Hannity withheld in his interview with Trump, and it’s the kind of pitiful negotiation that brought American surrender to the Taliban.

    Fox News host Sean Hannity interviewed former President Donald Trump on Monday and, apparently, omitted crucial chunks of their conversation about Ukraine when it was broadcast to Hannity’s radio audience.

    “According to Trump, all he needed to do was let Russia ‘take over’ parts of Ukraine,” Baragona explained. “Saying that Russia was going for the ‘whole enchilada’ with Joe Biden as president, Trump added that Russia ‘took over nothing’ while he was in the White House because Russian President Vladimir Putin ‘understood’ that ‘he would have never done it.'”

    Trump added, “that’s without even negotiating a deal. I could have negotiated. At worst, I could’ve made a deal to take over something, there are certain areas that are Russian-speaking areas, frankly, but you could’ve worked a deal.”

    P.S. I’m loathe to link to Raw Story but the sourcing is from the Daily Beast.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  504. Asia Times is under the boot of the CCP. I’d take any opinion from them with extreme skepticism.
    Also, I don’t know who this Brandon Weichert guy is, but I don’t take seriously a person who presumes that the Ukrainian effort to defend itself from a criminal invasion “eradicates most of its population”.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  505. Biden would look very Presidential if he pardoned the non-violent offenders. That’s assuming he gives a spiff about working to heal the divisions.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  506. “if the offensive works, Russia will break out the nukes”.

    And if Russia breaks out the nukes, NATO enters the war. Then what?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  507. I’m sure we’ll have people claiming that, after Russia uses nukes, further resistance is “going to set off WWIII”, when Russia using nukes already did that.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  508. And if Russia breaks out the nukes, NATO enters the war. Then what?

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 3/8/2023 @ 3:34 pm

    Ask the author of that lame article.

    norcal (7345e5)

  509. According to the article:

    Brandon J Weichert is a former US congressional staffer and a geopolitical analyst. On top of being a contributor at Asia Times, he is a contributing editor at American Greatness and The Washington Times. Weichert recently became a senior editor at 19FortyFive. He is the author of Winning Space: How America Remains a Superpower, The Shadow War: Iran’s Quest for Supremacy, and Biohacked: China’s Race to Control Life.

    According to Wikipedia:

    Asia Times (Chinese: 亞洲時報), formerly known as Asia Times Online, is a Hong Kong–based English language news media publishing group, covering politics, economics, business, and culture from an Asian perspective.[1] Asia Times publishes in English and simplified Chinese.

    If the newspapper tried to be independent of the ChiComs, “Emperor” Xi would shut them down.

    Given where Weichert is publishing now, I think an investigation of what he did in Congress — assuming he actually worked there — is in order.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  510. Horatio – Thanks for bringing Weichert to our attention. I don’t know whether you meant to warn us about him, but you did, and for that we should be grateful.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  511. To go back to a previous subject: One of the things I’ve observed in “mostly peaceful” demonstrations in Seattle is that those who are peaceful often shield those who are violent. So, for example, the rock and bottle throwers will hide behind those just chanting and carrying signs.

    I haven’t watched much of the January 6th video, but it wouldn’t surprise me if something similar happened then.

    (That said, I don’t doubt that there were protesters there who were peaceful, and at least a few who left before there was any violence.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  512. ‘Albert Watkins, Chansley’s attorney through sentencing in November 2021, said he had been provided many hours of video by prosecutors, but not the footage which Carlson aired Monday night. He said he had not seen video of Chansley walking through Capitol hallways with multiple Capitol Police officers.

    “What’s deeply troubling,” Watkins said Tuesday, “Is the fact that I have to watch Tucker Carlson to find video footage which the government has, but chose not to disclose, despite the absolute duty to do so. Despite being requested in writing to do so, multiple times.” He no longer represents Chansley and said he could not comment on what remedy might be sought for the defendant. Watkins suggested that all Jan. 6 defendants who were convicted based on video from the riot should have their convictions vacated.” ‘

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  513. @486. Well, you know what’s etched on The Big Dick’s tombstone:

    “Expletive Deleted.” 😉

    DCSCA (aae600)

  514. “That’s how mobs behave. Like dogs who caught the car. With nobody handy to attack, they mill around.”

    Heh… rather benign. As opposed to ambulance chasers… when they catch the ambulance is when the exsanguination starts.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  515. Anyone who believes that evidence of someone not committing a crime is evidence that they didn’t commit one previously or subsequently… oops, never mind. I just noticed who’s making the assertion. I accidentally took it seriously.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  516. Paul, interesting story about Hannity, and believable. But any time Rawstory reports news we have be aware that they may be leaving out facts that don’t fit their preferred narrative. I’m not accusing them of fabrication, but they’re not a generally reliable source.

    Time123 (078d81)

  517. Whembly, we don’t have to guess at the motives of the rioters. They were load about it in the moment. It lined up with things they said ahead of time, and many of the statements made after the fact were consistent; they did what they did to prevent Biden being certified.

    They didn’t have a great plan (thank goodness) but this wasn’t a riot for equal pay or a to protest police violence or outrage at failure to enforce the law, or because the eagles won the Super Bowl. This was a riot to prevent the transfer of power.

    Your comment that it wasn’t a legit insurrection and that proven by the lighter sentences. I recall some discussion (not from you) that if the DOJ didn’t go for blood it would be seen as evidence not of temperance, but as evidence that the crimes weren’t as severe.

    I guess it can be a Rorschach test. I look at it and see a DOJ trying to find justice without being overly punitive. You look at it as evidence they don’t think it was as bad.

    I will re-ask my question. From the DOJ database who do you think has been treated unfairly / had the book thrown at them?

    Time123 (078d81)

  518. Time123 (078d81) — 3/8/2023 @ 4:56 pm

    Yes, hence my P.S.
    If it was sourced by one of their staff and not the Daily Beast, I wouldn’t have linked it.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  519. Those who believe the DOJ was overcharging by including misdemeanors should ask Congress to repeal those parts of Title 18 to allow for example, the following activities:

    Entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds;
    Disorderly and disruptive conduct in a Capitol Building;
    Disorderly conduct in a Capitol Building, and
    Parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol Building

    I’m sure they will be amenable to it.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  520. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/8/2023 @ 5:25 pm

    I would also add

    Aiding and abetting in committing an act of violence in the Capitol Building or grounds

    Engaging in physical violence in a restricted building or grounds

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  521. Entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds;
    Disorderly and disruptive conduct in a Capitol Building;
    Disorderly conduct in a Capitol Building, and
    Parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol Building

    The second of those seems like it would include the 3rd, or at least one should not be charged with both.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  522. Parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol Building

    How many SotU protesters were jailed on that one?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  523. I love Allah-Nick’s piece today. Tucker et al pushing for people to choose their own reality about Jan 6th. The truth is just not ever really knowable. It extends to the Ukraine war….as evidenced by DCCCP’s shower of rationalizations….cresting with the assertion that since Russia used to own Ukraine, well, it’s none of our business if they want it back. Make the truth unknowable by shovel BS on top of it….I think Allah-Nick is on to something….

    AJ_Liberty (c5b55c)

  524. @536:

    All this bickering!! Some say this, some say that. Can’t we just move on?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  525. sarah hukaboo sanders signs bill that ends verification of age of children under 16 as meat packers were worried if they knowingly had children working around hazardous machines in meat pack plats and other unsafe conditions for children. du

    asset (cf2aac)

  526. The U.S.’s $13 Billion Aircraft Carrier Has a Toilet Problem

    The toilets on America’s two newest aircraft carriers, USS Bush and USS Ford are experiencing clogging problems, and the only way to keep the pipes draining is to use a special, extremely expensive acid solution. The two carriers toilet plumbing system, modeled on the plumbing system installed on airliners, clog frequently requiring the Navy to regularly service them with an acid that costs $400,000 per use.

    The problem, first reported by Bloomberg, is mentioned in a General Accountability Office (GAO) report on sustainment costs for Navy ships. The GAO report states that the Navy used a brand new toilet and sewage system for the USS George H.W. Bush and USS Gerald R. Ford, the last two aircraft carriers to roll off the production lines. The system is “similar to what is on commercial aircraft, but increased in scale for a crew of over 4,000 people.”

    GAO: To address unexpected and frequent clogging of the system, the Navy has determined that it needs to acid flush the CVN 77 and 78’s sewage system on a regular basis, which is an unplanned maintenance action for the entire service life of the ship.
    Each acid flush costs $400,000. The Navy, the GAO states, cannot predict how often this expensive procedure is necessary, making it difficult to predict how often it will need to repeat the procedure over the 50-year lifespans of each carrier.

    The clogging problems with the new toilet system were well known even before USS Ford finished construction. In 2011, the Navy Times reported on toilet issues with the USS Bush, the first carrier to feature the toilet vacuum system, writing that during the ship’s maiden deployment in 2009, the ship averaged 25 calls a week to fix the commodes and all 432 commodes on the ship went down twice. The problem was reportedly so widespread sailors were peeing in bottles and emptying them overboard and experiencing health problems.

    In response, the Navy claimed Bush had a 94 percent toilet availability, and that most problems were fixed in a few minutes. The Navy blamed the sailors flushing “inappropriate” materials down the toilets, including feminine hygiene products, food, and clothing. But the Navy also acknowledged that the system differed from the old system in that outages in one toilet affected a wider grouping of toilets than before.

    The U.S. Navy plans to build up to 11 Ford-class carriers, gradually replacing existing Nimitz-class ships over the coming decades. The next ships in class are the USS John F. Kennedy, USS Enterprise, and USS Doris Miller. USS Ford cost a whopping $13 billion, more than twice as much as the USS Bush. USS Ford has experienced a number of technical issues, including getting the electromagnetic aircraft launch system working, the advanced arresting gear, a new radar system, and electromagnetically powered weapon elevators.

    The GAO report also mentions a bigger problem with USS Ford than faulty toilets: the ship, designed to be less expensive to sail than previous classes, was projected to cost $77.3 billion over 50 years to operate, or $1.54 billion annually. Instead, the GAO projects the ship will cost $123 billion over the same period, or $2.46 billion a year. If the Navy builds all eleven ships the service will see a combined cost increase of $10 billion a year—the equivalent of four new destroyers with toilets that flush. – https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a31929628/uss-ford-toilet/

    DCSCA (9c880d)

  527. 94 percent toilet availability

    “But dear, we have a 94% toilet availability!” does not seem like a good argument.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  528. Now if you want to talk about a president breaking the law and trying to overthrow the nation, you don’t need to look any further than the current occupant of the White House.

    A federal judge in Florida on Wednesday agreed with the state’s Republican attorney general that the policy of President Joe Biden’s administration to release many people who illegally cross the U.S.-Mexican border rather than detaining them violates U.S. immigration law.

    U.S. District Judge T. Kent Wetherell in Pensacola blocked the administration from continuing to implement a 2021 Department of Homeland Security (DHS) memo that had authorized “alternatives to detention” to ease overcrowding in detention facilities. These alternatives included ankle bracelets, phone monitoring or check-ins by immigration officers. Republican critics have called the policy “catch and release.”

    NJRob (75cac3)

  529. Another Trump lawyer pays the price, albeit a small one, for lying on his behalf. Funny how so many of his attorneys have eventually faced legal/ethical proceedings after having him for a client.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  530. The New York Times wrote in a news story printed yesterday March 8, 2023, that seven people, including three police officers “had lost their lives in connection with the Jan. 6 attack” and attributes that total to “a bipartisan Senate report.”

    I don’t believe, and never believed, that three police officers died as a result, and something has to be wrong here. Did the Senate report say that that was its own conclusion, or was that just the (highly questionable) claim by the Capitol police or whoever?

    While it is not true, or fair, to say that any Capitol policemen were killed as a result of January 6, some Capitol and other police were injured for real, with some suffering more than just some pains and bruises, but the Democrats decided that wasn’t good enough for them – it had to be murders. Only deaths counted. And so they barely talked about injuries.

    (and I think put some on disability – I suppose there could be PTSD)

    Maybe, in general, they are in the habit of only counting deaths in connection with violence.

    The New York Times also reported in yesterday’s paper that more than 150 officers from various police forces and agencies suffered injuries
    in scenes of hand to hand combat” (this would include being pepper sprayed, or hit or being pushed against something – anything any one reported)

    Sammy Finkelman (d424f9)

  531. 542. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/08/trump-lawyer-misrepresented-jenna-ellis-00086256

    Jenna Ellis is one of the big ones. This article doesn’t even give you a clue as to what were her lies!

    This news won’t reach the people watching Fox News and NewsMax.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  532. NJRob (75cac3) — 3/9/2023 @ 4:44 am

    U.S. District Judge T. Kent Wetherell in Pensacola blocked the administration from continuing to implement a 2021 Department of Homeland Security (DHS) memo that had authorized “alternatives to detention” to ease overcrowding in detention facilities. These alternatives included ankle bracelets, phone monitoring or check-ins by immigration officers. Republican critics have called the policy “catch and release.”

    He also would be breaking the law by detaining them in crowded conditions and also would be breaking the law by sending them back to Mexico.

    This judge would have Biden release people only in extremis with no planning or even maybe selection at all.

    Meanwhile, Democrats are getting ready to attack him:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-will-block-migrants-rule-echoes-trump-miller-ban-rcna71629

    The Biden administration announced Tuesday a new policy, set to take effect when Covid measures at the southern border expire, that would place limits on migrants’ eligibility to claim asylum when crossing into the U.S. from Mexico.

    The policy has received wide criticism from congressional Democrats and immigrant advocacy organizations who liken it to a “transit ban” proposed by President Donald Trump’s hard-line immigration adviser, Stephen Miller. Advocacy organizations have threatened to sue.

    Under the new rule, migrants who pass through countries on their way to the U.S. and do not first claim asylum there or take advantage of other lawful pathways will be deemed ineligible to claim asylum at the southern border.

    This completely ignores economic – and sometimes political – reality. And the law doesn’t say that.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  533. I remember the scandal when Sarah Palin became a grandmother at 44, but Ms. Boebert at 36 got her beat, what with her 17-year kid knocking up some girl in this present-day idiocracy.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  534. This article doesn’t even give you a clue as to what were her lies!

    Um, it did, Sammy. Quote:

    Among her admitted misrepresentations:

    — Ellis claimed on Nov. 13, 2020 that Hillary Clinton didn’t concede the 2016 election.

    — On Nov 20, 2020, Ellis claimed Trump’s team had evidence of a “coordinated effort in all of these states to transfer votes either from Trump to Biden, to manipulate the ballots, to count them in secret.”

    — On Nov. 30, 2020, Ellis said on Fox that Trump “won in a landslide.”

    — On Dec. 5, 2020, Ellis claimed the Trump team found 500,000 illegal votes had been cast in Arizona.

    But I do agree that consumers of FoxNews and NewsMax either won’t see her lies or will ignore them because Politico isn’t right-wing enough for consideration.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  535. but Ms. Boebert at 36 got her beat, what with her 17-year kid knocking up some girl in this present-day idiocracy.

    Precocity runs in the family. Boebert herself had a baby in her senior year in high school.

    nk (df21c2)

  536. I remember the scandal when Sarah Palin became a grandmother at 44, but Ms. Boebert at 36 got her beat, what with her 17-year kid knocking up some girl in this present-day idiocracy.
    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/9/2023 @ 8:21 pm

    I remember the scandal when the president’s son knocked up a stripper and the president disowned his granddaughter never acknowledging she exists

    JF (ce76fd)

  537. The law oees say that Sammy.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  538. JF,

    Good point JF. I believe we were told at the time that the coke head stripper impregnator wasn’t running for office.

    Guess it only matters if it can be used to attack a Republican. Sounds like a genuine conservative must be doing those attacks and not a moby.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  539. I think part of the focus on the family values of conservatives is the hypocrisy angle. Social conservatives want to use the state to enforce their preferred norms of social/sexual behavior. When a social cons personal life doesn’t align with what that want to make policy is makes them look insincere / hypocritical.

    Similar to how Bernie, a lefty who rails against personal wealth was rightly criticized for his Dacha. Bernie is far from the wealthiest senator. But given his policy and rhetoric his personal wealth hits different.

    Time123 (7512e0)

  540. mr. president joe biden had better change his evil ways or no trump supporter will ever vote for him

    nk (57a8aa)

  541. Hypocrisy is too kind a word for the Trump ilk who have perverted the meaning of “conservative”, Time123. They are not conservatives. They are petty, small-minded, resentful, haters attacking soft targets to give themselves some imaginary relief from the reality of their own moral, intellectual, and social inferiority.

    nk (57a8aa)

  542. I remember the scandal when the president’s son knocked up a stripper and the president disowned his granddaughter never acknowledging she exists

    Right, because no one here has ever brought up Hunter and his problem with coke and hookers.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  543. Right, because no one here has ever brought up Hunter and his problem with coke and hookers.
    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 3/10/2023 @ 5:45 am

    you brought it up, Montagu, just like NJRob described

    but we should be thankful you bring up the failings of Trump and his political friends with nearly ever comment every day, cuz if you didn’t do it no one would

    JF (33c07e)

  544. Ambulance Chasers: “No heart. No balls. ALL mouth.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  545. you brought it up, Montagu, just like NJRob described
    Yes, I did, and then Rob whatabouted.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)


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