Patterico's Pontifications

2/9/2023

Rep. Gaetz Introduces Resolution To End U.S. Military And Financial Aid to Ukraine

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:02 am



[guest post by Dana]

As expected:

Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., is introducing a resolution in the House on Thursday that calls on the Biden administration to end U.S. military and financial aid to Ukraine — while also urging all involved to secure a peace agreement after nearly a year of war in the region.

From Gaetz:

“America is in a state of managed decline, and it will exacerbate if we continue to hemorrhage taxpayer dollars toward a foreign war,” he said. We must suspend all foreign aid for the War in Ukraine and demand that all combatants in this conflict reach a peace agreement immediately.”

Also as expected, the co-sponsors of the resolution include Reps. Andy Biggs, Lauren Boebert, Paul Gosar, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Anna Paulina Luna, Thomas Massie, Mary Miller, Barry Moore, Ralph Norman, and Matt Rosendale.

I don’t think there’s any reason to reiterate why I think this is a very bad idea and what I think of Gaetz and the co-sponsors, but while we can be fairly sure that the resolution won’t go anywhere, can anyone who supports this proposal explain how you make an enforceable peace agreement with someone like Putin in a place like Russia??

Meanwhile, a group of key Republicans have introduced a plan to pressure President Biden to quickly provide Ukraine with more advanced weapons in order to end the war sooner rather than later:

[T]he conservatives’ push comes with the expectation of more and faster progress by Ukraine, as polls indicate declining support for the effort to arm Ukraine, particularly among Republicans.

The first part of the dual campaign is to conduct closed-door classified information gatherings in Congress, like the recent classified Senate Armed Services Committee briefing that included Celeste Wallander, assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs and William LaPlante, the under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, according to two people with direct knowledge of current discussions within Republican leadership.

The second part is a public-facing campaign to call on President Joe Biden to provide things like Grey Eagle drones, and the long-range Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS, which would help Ukraine strike at the Russian artillery batteries continuously lobbing missiles at Ukrainian forces. Kyiv has been requesting ATACMS since the start of the war, but the requests have grown louder as the United States approved other pieces of equipment it previously resisted, such as M-1 Abrams tanks.

The public portion of the Republicans’ campaign could take a variety of forms. Virtually every Armed Services Committee hearing in the House and Senate provides opportunity for comment, the two individuals said. Lawmakers could also speak on the issue during floor speeches and media engagements.

As Sen. Roger Wicker, who is frustrated with the administration’s slow-walking policy on Ukraine, put it:

“We should deliver these assets [ATACMS and Grey Eagle and Reaper drones] quickly to make an immediate difference on the battlefield. In concert with our allies, this approach of ‘more, better, faster would give the Ukrainians a real shot at victory,”

The report also points out an interesting parallel between a small group of far-right House members and larger group of far-left House members who question the continued support of Ukraine in almost every circumstance. As you may recall, 30 Democratic members of the House signed onto a letter last summer pushing for the President to “engage in direct talks with Russia to end the war.” They later retracted the letter, but the report says that was only because they had their letter pulled, not because they changed their hearts or minds.

You can also read two separate op-eds by Sens. Tom Cotton and Roger Wicker who make the case on why supporting Ukraine benefits the United States.

Back in September, the Republican Policy Committee spelled out why it is so important for the U.S. to provide aid to Ukraine. I still believe in the points made, and think they continue to be not only viable, but wholly necessary:

Military aid for Ukraine is a strategic investment in the security of the United States. The U.S. has a willing and effective partner to help Ukraine stand up to Putin’s agenda while keeping his aggression farther from NATO borders. If Ukraine defeats Russia, this will save the U.S. from making larger-scale investments in Europe to deter Russia in the future. A weakened Russian military will be a good thing for the U.S., NATO, European, and international stability. As we and our allies buy new weapons to replace what is being sent to Ukraine, we will help modernize our military industrial base and fill the U.S. arsenal with newer weapons.

United States support to Ukraine also sends a clear message to America’s adversaries that we will not back down and that this kind of reckless rejection of the rule of law will have consequences. This is particularly notable as China’s desire to invade Taiwan grows more obvious. It makes clear that there are significant costs to pay for any authoritarian state that expects a quick military victory when invading its neighbors. We must leave absolutely no doubt in the minds of Russia’s, China’s, or any other nation’s leaders about U.S. resolve to support sovereignty and self-determination around the globe. Decisive military aid to Ukraine will accomplish this task.

–Dana

33 Responses to “Rep. Gaetz Introduces Resolution To End U.S. Military And Financial Aid to Ukraine”

  1. Hello.

    And in good news pertaining to the war in Ukraine: British Prime Minister Sunak has agreed to begin getting ready for Britain to send fighter jets to Ukraine after meeting with President Zelensky. Reports say that he has told the Ministry of Defense to begin work on this. He also announced that Ukrainian pilots would be trained in Britain.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. I’m glad that the number in the House Putin Caucus is only 11.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  3. Avoiding a Long War
    U.S. Policy and the Trajectory of the Russia-Ukraine Conflict

    https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PEA2510-1.html

    New RAND Report Says a Long War in Ukraine Is Against US Interests

    The report says a prolonged war in Ukraine hampers the US ability to focus on its ‘competition with China’

    The RAND Corporation issued a new report that warns against a “protracted conflict” in Ukraine and says a prolonged war is against US interests, breaking from the view of many hawks in Washington that the US should support the fight against Russia for the long term.

    RAND is funded directly by the US military and often shapes US policies, including hawkish ones toward Moscow. A 2019 report titled “Extending Russia” examined the risks and benefits of ways the US could try to “extend” Russia, and many of those policies have been implemented, including the provision of “lethal aid” to Ukraine, sanctions on Russia, and “hindering” the country’s gas and oil exports.

    The new report from RAND titled “Avoiding a Long War” examines the risks of the current conflict and acknowledges a protracted conflict heightens the risk of nuclear war.

    A summary of the new report reads: “Discussion of the Russia-Ukraine war in Washington is increasingly dominated by the question of how it might end. To inform this discussion, this Perspective identifies ways in which the war could evolve and how alternative trajectories would affect US interests. The authors argue that, in addition to minimizing the risks of major escalation, US interests would be best served by avoiding a protracted conflict.”

    The authors say the war in Ukraine makes it harder for the US to focus on its efforts to prepare for a future conflict with China. “The US ability to focus on its other global priorities — particularly, competition with China — will remain constrained as long as the war is absorbing senior policymakers’ time and US military resources,” the report reads.

    The report says that the major risk of a long war in Ukraine is that there would be “a prolonged elevated risk of Russian nuclear use and a NATO-Russia war.” It says that “avoiding these two forms of escalation is the paramount US priority.”

    When it comes to Ukraine retaking more of the territory that Russia captured, the report says this is only a “less significant benefit” and that “avoiding a long war is also a higher priority for the United States than facilitating significantly more Ukrainian territorial control.” It places “weakening Russia” as a greater benefit to the US than Ukrainian gains, but still not worth the risk of a long war.

    The report recognizes that there is currently little hope for peace talks and suggests that the US could “condition future military aid on a Ukrainian commitment to negotiations.” Another suggestion to foster negotiations is for the US to establish conditions for sanctions relief for Russia. The authors acknowledge the Biden administration has made no effort to push the warring sides toward peace talks.

    The conclusion says that due to the political situation in the US, a “dramatic shift” in US policy toward Ukraine is unlikely. But the authors say that “developing these instruments now and socializing them with Ukraine and with US allies might help catalyze the eventual start of a process that could bring this war to a negotiated end in a time frame that would serve US interests.” –

    https://news.antiwar.com/2023/01/30/new-rand-report-says-a-long-war-in-ukraine-is-against-us-interests/#:~:text=The%20RAND%20Corporation%20issued%20a%20new%20report%20that,the%20fight%20against%20Russia%20for%20the%20long%20term.

    They got it right about Southeast Asia. Lest you forget, the politicians financed by the MIC hid the truth from the people who paid the terrible price until a free press published the Pentagon Papers.

    History rhymes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRQu8F4S6Cw

    “…This letter’s postmarked Vietnam” – Barry Sadler, 1966

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  4. Trump’s last Defense secretary takes on the ‘American war machine’

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3850009-trumps-last-defense-secretary-takes-on-the-american-war-machine/

    “Reality. What a concept.” – Robin Williams

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  5. I’m glad that the number in the House Putin Caucus is only 11.

    There are 30 on the Left (mostly the Black Caucus), but they don’t get much mention.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  6. Sooner or later, Putin is going to double down and widen the war to maintain his wartime power. It may be because we give him reasons, or it may be because he invents some. Won’t matter much because the status quo will literally kill him.

    The only way to avoid that is to destroy his invasion in detail in a short period of time, so that his backers desert him before he can reach for the nukes.

    Or, I guess we could give up but then we cease being a world power. I think that would be bad.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  7. The resolution is probably part of the price of McCarthy becoming speaker.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  8. From Sen. Tom Cotton’s WSJ op-ed:

    ……..
    …….. Mr. Biden has dragged his feet all along, hesitating fearfully to send the Ukrainians the weapons and intelligence they need to win. Today, Mr. Biden stubbornly refuses to provide fighter jets, cluster munitions and long-range missiles to Ukraine. As a result of Mr. Biden’s half-measures, Ukraine has only half-succeeded.

    We should back Ukraine to the hilt, because the likeliest alternative isn’t peace, but rather another “frozen conflict” that favors Russia and harms our interests. Russia would retain key strategic terrain and much of Ukraine’s industry and agriculture. Food and energy prices would remain high, potentially starving many nations and exacerbating the migrant crisis in the West.

    Meanwhile, Russia could rebuild its strength and seize the rest of Ukraine when the opportunity arises. Such an outcome would create millions more Ukrainian refugees, drive inflation higher and worsen supply-chain disruptions. Russia would also extend its border deep into Europe. Next on the chopping block could be Moldova, site of another frozen conflict. And after that, a NATO nation.

    Stopping Russia also will allow the U.S. to focus on the greater threat from China. A Russian victory would force us to divert more resources for a longer time to Europe to deter Russian expansionism, creating persistent threats on both fronts. But a Ukrainian victory and a durable peace will secure our European flank as we confront China.

    The Chinese dictator, Xi Jinping, is closely watching the war in Ukraine. If the West falters, he will conclude that we will never fight to protect Taiwan. In the 1930s, the West tempted the Axis powers by appeasing naked aggression against small countries like Ethiopia and Czechoslovakia. Some Western politicians may have forgotten the lessons of history, but Mr. Xi hasn’t.
    ……..
    War is always expensive, but we must measure the current costs against the greater potential cost of wider war in Europe or Asia. The Ukrainians are fighting their own war, with no American troops engaged in direct combat—which won’t be the case if irresolution in Ukraine tempts our enemies to attack a NATO ally or Taiwan. …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  9. https://gaetz.house.gov/sites/gaetz.house.gov/files/documents/Ukraine%20Fatigue%20Res.pdf

    It is an interesting resolution. It reads more like an accounting of what the US has invested while depleting our own defensive/offensive armament.

    This should be worrisome but I guess Mitt Romney would need to be the author for anyone to get concerned:

    Whereas, as of August 30, 2022, Pentagon officials reported that United States munitions donated to Ukraine have severely depleted United States stockpiles, weakening United States readiness in the event of conflict;

    Whereas, according to a January 9, 2023, report by the Cen- ter for Strategic and International Studies, at the recent rate of production, it will take 12 and half years to re- plenish United States stocks of Javelins sent to Ukraine;

    Whereas it was reported on November 11, 2022, that the United States had struck a deal with South Korea to purchase thousands of rounds of 155mm ammunition, trying to offset the diminished domestic stockpiles after the United States has supplied Ukraine with nearly 1,000,000,000 rounds of munitions;

    Probably lies.

    BuDuh (2005d7)

  10. The only way to avoid that is to destroy his invasion in detail in a short period of time, so that his backers desert him before he can reach for the nukes.

    Backers…

    Digging In

    Defying Demands for Exit or Reduction of Activities (221 Companies) (Grade: F)

    https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/over-1000-companies-have-curtailed-operations-russia-some-remain

    Companies that are just continuing business-as-usual in Russia…

    Start w/ grade ‘F’ and note how many are based in NATO member nations… then work your way up to A.

    “The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.” ― that other Vladimir named Lenin

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  11. Top Putin Ally Says He ‘Will Not Hide’ Intention to Invade Poland Anymore

    Ramzan Kadyrov, a key ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, has begun rattling off threats about attacking Poland after Ukraine.

    Kadyrov, the head of Chechnya, suggested Monday that Russia should “denazify and demilitarize” Poland next.

    “What if, after the successful completion of the NMD, Russia begins to denazify and demilitarize the next country? After all, after Ukraine, Poland is on the map! I will not hide that I personally have such an intention,” Kadyrov said on Telegram. “I personally have such an intention, and I have repeatedly stated that the fight against Satanism should continue throughout Europe and, first of all, on the territory of Poland.”
    ……..
    “The special [military] operation will be over before the end of this year. European countries will admit they have been wrong, the West will fall to its knees, and, as usual, European countries will have to cooperate with the Russian Federation in all spheres,” Kadyrov said, according to TASS. “There should not and will never be an alternative to that.”
    ……..
    Polish authorities are concerned that Russia is still eyeing Poland. Marek Magierowski, the Polish ambassador to the U.S., warned just this week that Russia might set its sights on Poland next.

    “Russia has always been our neighbor. It is our neighbor and it will remain so. It will not vanish miraculously in the foreseeable future. So we have to prepare,” Magierowski told NPR. “We have to be prepared for any eventuality. Poland might be the next target.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. Poland is getting ready:

    <a href="“>Poland requested to buy 18 M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) launchers; 45 M57 Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS); along with associated equipment for an estimated $10 billion.

    In December 2022 Poland was cleared to receive 116 M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tanks (and associated munitions); combat recovery vehicles, assault bridges, Humvees, along with other weapons and associated munitions. The total estimated cost was $16 billion.

    And in February 2022 Poland bought 250 M1A2SEPv3 Abrams Main Battle tanks, the latest version of the Abrams tank, along with related equipment, for $6 billion.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  13. It is an interesting resolution. It reads more like an accounting of what the US has invested while depleting our own defensive/offensive armament.

    Once you skip passed the laundry list you get to the meat and potatoes (page 9 of 9):

    SEC. 2. SENSE OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

    It is the sense of the House of Representatives that—

    (1) the United States must end its military and financial aid to Ukraine; and

    (2) the House of Representatives urges all combatants to reach a peace agreement.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  14. So the U.S. gives them U.S. tax $ aka ‘aid’ to ‘buy American’…

    … and the MIC smiled.

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  15. @11. Attack a NATO member and trigger Article 5? Uh-huh– sucker bait… lest you forget:

    German companies do far more business in Russia than any other European Union country does, exporting goods worth more than 26 billion euros ($28.4 billion) last year (Poland was second with €8 billion) and investing a further €25 billion in operations there.http://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/business/germany-russia-companies.html

    Almost as believable as Russia blowing up their own Nord Stream Pipeline:

    Pulitzer winner Seymour Hersh claims US Navy behind Nord Stream 2 pipeline explosion

    https://nypost.com/2023/02/08/seymour-hersh-claims-us-navy-behind-nord-stream-2-pipeline-explosion/

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  16. Poland in 2019 celebrated the 20th anniversary of accession to NATO. According to the majority of Poles, our membership in NATO has direct impact on the improvement of our country’s security (70%). Similarly, two-thirds of Poles have a positive opinion about NATO’s activities aimed at peace keeping and armed conflict prevention over the last couple of years. For almost 70 years, NATO has been the most important pillar of European security by providing a necessary link between Europe and North America in the political and defence sphere. With successive waves of enlargement, 30 countries are now members of the North Atlantic Alliance, while others actively seek accession to the Organization. – https://www.gov.pl/web/national-defence/poland-in-nato-20-years

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  17. Putin won’t attack Poland first. He’ll attack Estonia, hoping to pick that off while we all argue about whether Estonia is worth fighting WW3. Then Latvia….

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  18. Memo to Tom Cotton:

    This isn’t the 1930’s. It is 2023– and multiple financial institutions and political organizations were created in Europe including the IMF, the UN, NATO and the EU in the bloody wake of two world wars, a Marshall Plan and a costly Cold War to manage political brushfires, fortify Europe with strong, vibrant economies, some of the most powerful and sophisticated militaries on Earth w/superb armaments of their own creation and many of the finest military aircraft in the world. They can afford to take care of themselves, Tommy Boy.

    It is not the responsibility of a deeply in debt, inflation-riddled United States to keep borrowing billions from our chief adversary to finance such a policy follow- certainly not one for a supposed fiscal conservative to advocate. China has already gotten the message on Taiwan they wanted from the U.S.– apparently reaffirmed for years– by conducting a low tech spy balloon surveillance program kept secret from the American people– until one was spotted by the public violating sovereign U.S. airspace. And the civilian/military decision chain was so indecisive, it took a week to shoot it down. So if you’re going to just shill for the MIC, try to do a better job of hiding it, fella.

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  19. @18. Russia will never attack a NATO member. His fate is Khruschev’s and Russia will decide when. Besides, there’s the health factor. Look at the calendar. Might be time to set up the interweb ‘head of lettuce versus Putin/Biden’ website. 😉

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  20. China Balloon Had Western-Made Parts With English Writing, Lawmakers Told

    (Bloomberg) — An alleged Chinese spy balloon that traversed the US had western-made components with English-language writing on them, members of Congress were told on Capitol Hill Thursday, people familiar with the matter said. – Bloomberg.com

    The airplane was invented in America, too.

    … and Yamamoto smiled.

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  21. I expect to see a series of historical pieces about how WWI was the result of the unthinking activation of old alliances over a minor event.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  22. Before WWII nazi simps opposed lend lease to britian. Matt gaetz is just following his nazi forbearers. @22 appeasment before world war 2 is better analogy.

    asset (86cd99)

  23. What is the argument for not helping ukraine. Its none of “our” bussiness. Only valid if you and me make “we” You and me don’t make we and we just had election and putin enablers LOST! Second argument: Could start WW III. Last time we tried appeasing a dictator 1938 sudatenland he took it as allied weakness invaded poland causing world war II. Your other arguments are even worse.

    asset (86cd99)

  24. @23. This is not the 1930s; Britain was not the second most corrupt government in Europe– as Ukraine is in the 2020s– nor was the USA borrowing billions from its chief adversary to finance aid. And in 2023, institutions created post WW2, such as the IMF, NATO, the UN and the EU were established to manage just such issues, with modern, wealthy 21st century European nations having strong, vibrant economies and some of the most powerful, sophisticated militaries on Earth w/superb ground armaments and many of the finest military aircraft in the world of their own making. Europe is more than capable to afford and manage issues on their own continent in the 2020s; it is simply a matter of forcing European leaders to muster the courage to do so and take responsibility for their own decisions- albeit poor ones– of which they were warned. It is not an American problem; spy balloons from the PRC, routinely broaching sovereign U.S. air space– is an American problem; with the growing fate of vital U.S. interests in Taiwan increasingly at risk.

    DCSCA (233419)

  25. Military aid for Ukraine is a strategic investment in the security of the United States. The U.S. has a willing and effective partner to help Ukraine stand up to Putin’s agenda while keeping his aggression farther from NATO borders. If Ukraine defeats Russia, this will save the U.S. from making larger-scale investments in Europe to deter Russia in the future. A weakened Russian military will be a good thing for the U.S., NATO, European, and international stability. As we and our allies buy new weapons to replace what is being sent to Ukraine, we will help modernize our military industrial base and fill the U.S. arsenal with newer weapons.

    United States support to Ukraine also sends a clear message to America’s adversaries that we will not back down and that this kind of reckless rejection of the rule of law will have consequences. This is particularly notable as China’s desire to invade Taiwan grows more obvious. It makes clear that there are significant costs to pay for any authoritarian state that expects a quick military victory when invading its neighbors. We must leave absolutely no doubt in the minds of Russia’s, China’s, or any other nation’s leaders about U.S. resolve to support sovereignty and self-determination around the globe. Decisive military aid to Ukraine will accomplish this task.

    It’s hard not to laugh at this porous drivel- clearly quilled for the MIC pitchmen in the GOP establishment by the public relations department at Raytheon and General Dynamics…

    … and the MIC smiled.

    DCSCA (233419)

  26. Before WWII nazi simps opposed lend lease to britian. Matt gaetz is just following his nazi forbearers.

    Sure. He would have loved Father Coughlin.

    @22 appeasment before world war 2 is better analogy.

    It’s actually the same analogy, looking at the reasons they came up with for appeasement — wanting to avoid the lock-step mobilizations of WW1.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  27. Ukraine is the modern version of the Battle of Vienna.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  28. @25 as I said your other arguments are even worse. The first two are better ;but not good enough. @26 that not a refutation just sophistry. Ukraine is bleeding putin. We have spent trillions on defense for years with far less results. Vietnam afganistan iraq we sent soldiers because the soldiers of those corrupt govt. wouldn’t fight. We lost many soldiers. Now the soldiers of a semi- corrupt govt. will fight just like our revolutionary war soldiers did while they watched the good people of pennsylvania sell their cattle to the red coats while are soilders starved at valley forge. We had plenty of corruption in our continental congress too! As dr. samuel johnson said when asked by boswel what he thought about the american revolution he said I observe those who scream the loudest about freedom and liberty are the slave holding southerners. Do you object to lend lease in WWII to england when they ran out of money fighting hitler? Ukrainians will fight on wither the allies help or not. The majority of americans say the french helped us in 1778 along with other european nations armed neutrality against england. This is in america’s interest by popular vote in the last election.

    asset (86cd99)

  29. @27 Germany had been mobilized since munich in 1938 and was planning to start war so mobilization not a problem. France had different mobilization then 1914 to prevent that from occuring putting its faith in the maginot line. Britian only started to mobilize after hitler invaded poland. Russia signed non aggression pact so no need to mobilize so situation not similar to 1914. This war was not backed into ;but planned. No austria/serbia russia to start it after unforeseen assassination. Belgium was not invaded in 1939.

    asset (86cd99)

  30. Excerpts from Wicker’s argument:

    “First, Ukraine matters to the United States because the security of Europe is closely tied to our own security and prosperity.

    Second, this is a good investment for us….he result of these relatively modest investments is that Russia’s military is significantly weakened and Moscow can no longer carry out a near-term invasion of any nation in the NATO alliance. Further, 40 percent of U.S. aid for Ukraine, or about $44 billion, is being spent here at home on our defense-industrial base and readiness.

    Third, the United States is leading a transformation in Europe’s security architecture that will make it far less likely that American service members will be put in danger in the future.

    Fourth, victory in Ukraine will help deter the Chinese Communist Party in the Indo-Pacific…Last month, our allies in Tokyo committed to double their defense spending as a percent of GDP to 2 percent.”

    Recently we continue to see dramatic footage coming out of Ukraine. A Russian tank driver brutally and indiscriminately running over a fallen comrade. Another Russian tank driver abandoning his destroyed tank with his clothes on fire. The morale of the Russian fighting machine is subterranean. They don’t want to be there…and only the brutality of the regime holds things in place.

    Breaking the Russian war machine and crippling the economy that fuels it remains in our national interest. Too many nationalists want to take the foot off the accelerator, foolishly pretending that there’s not much difference between Putin and Z or that Europe can magically shoulder the entire burden. Fortunately they’re tiny and their moral confusion unpersuasive. Putin might not be Hitler — Hitler’s war machine was top notch with smart leaders — but his designs are nearly as evil. This is not the moment to go wobbly.

    AJ_Liberty (d95f0b)

  31. @27. Feel free to accuse wealthy modern 21st century Europe with appeasement all you want– they have the strong economies and superior militaries with superb ground assets and some of the finest military aircraft on Earth, not to mention institutions in place to manage issues on their continent like the IMF, the UN, NATO and the EU– all created in the wake of WW2.

    @31. Rubbish. There’s no “magic” to Europe shouldering the ‘entire burden’- particularly as a member of NATO, the United States will contribute should any NATO nation borders be breached. But there is definitive ‘slight of hand’ by European powers hesitant to risk commitments and take responsibility for the decisions they made. Why do the heavy lifting when they can sucker a deeply in debt U.S. again and again… the wealthy, modern nations of 21st century Europe have some of the finest military assets on Earth with superb aircraft, munitions and ground armaments– and a geographic advantage for quick response. After two world wars, a Marshall plan, a costly, 80 year Cold War umbrella it is past time for these nations to take responsibility and bear the burdens for managing their own continent in the 21st century. If you’re going to shill for the MIC, try to do a better job of hiding it.

    DCSCA (f30008)

  32. Ready, as we were in Afghanistan and Iraq, to fight until our new Allies tire of doing all dying and seeing their towns, cities and livelihood destroyed completely. Does anyone really believe they are doing Ukrainians any more of a favor by backing and supporting a hugely destructive war which Biden and Congress will just walk away from one night in the near future then the favor we did for Iraqis and afghanis?

    Curtis (fedce2)


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