Patterico's Pontifications

2/9/2023

In A Nutshell: The Sad Decline Of The Modern Republican Party

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:57 am



[guest post by Dana]

A disgusted Ronald Reagan rolls over in his grave:

This reminds me that Nick Cattogio (formerly Allahpundit) noted that Mitt Romney continued to function as the lost conscience of his party when he confronted Rep. George Santos on the House floor before the SOTU. The Republican Party desperately needs more of this.

–Dana

132 Responses to “In A Nutshell: The Sad Decline Of The Modern Republican Party”

  1. Why pick a loser to send your message?

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. I’ve been informed that Peggy Noonan will NOT be writing her speech.

    The irony is that CPAC today would not let Ronald Reagan be the Ronald Reagan Speaker.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  3. Good point, Kevin.

    Dana (1225fc)

  4. Why pick a loser to send your message?

    AuH20.

    Welcome to 1964.

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  5. Mitt Romney continued to function as the lost conscience of his party

    While functioning fully unconscious of his own creepiness w/binders full of women, the family pet strapped to the roof of his car; betting $10,000 in a presidential debate; disparaging the 47% to wealthy donors, Hillary Clinton-style; the automobile elevator proposal for his pricy LaJolla digs; his adoration of Michigan where”the trees are the right height” — he likes cars, too… his secret Froggie Twitter handle [Pierre Delecto] (“C’est moi!”); and his penchanmt for Frog Legs man of the people meals w/The Donald– not to mention his welcomed endorsement from Donald Trump and basking in the glow of ‘Dirty Harry’ yelling at an empty convention chair. And the irony is, just like a broken clock can be right twice a day, Santos told a truth right back at him:

    “Hey @MittRomney just a reminder that you will NEVER be PRESIDENT!”

    DCSCA (5684e2)

  6. At least George Santos can win something outside of Utah.

    JF (bf0c49)

  7. https://nypost.com/2023/02/09/nj-councilmember-russell-heller-shot-dead-second-in-a-week/

    More Republicans being murdered. Good time to complain about tone.

    NJRob (36dd62)

  8. That was a workplace issue.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  9. Let’s talk about the Republican Party, and what you want to see happen with it, where it’s been and where it’s going.also, how do you see the gulf being bridge in the Party between moderates and hard right/MAGA, or is it even possible? Who do you see leading the way back to the Republican Party of even ten years ago?

    Dana (1225fc)

  10. I am glad I am an Independent now. I think that DJT was the drug that killed the party.

    Think about who is rewarded, even if the final battle is lost. You will get more and more of it. Despite the silly “He wins” nonsense.

    Kari Lake? Really?

    I just shake my head when people spout hatred on Romney. If you support DJT, well, you can’t really criticize Romney.

    Oh, the nuh huh response will be loud, but…um…not so intellectually honest.

    What we need, we can’t get: decent people running for office.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  11. Dana, the real key is for candidates—not focus groups, not spokespeople, and for sure, not speechwriters—tell the public what they believe, and why.

    Unless we will admit that we are all statist authoritarians now, with different colored shoes.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  12. #5 is so morally confused about what matters and what doesn’t. Little of what is described is a question of conscience. I know, I know, I know. Don’t read it. Skip it. You know what to expect. He’s just trying to push your buttons over Romney. He’s just trying to turn any discussion about character into a complete mish-mash, to render any objectivity of right and wrong as illusory. It’s dumb. OK, I’ll now return to simply ignoring him.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  13. I agree, Simon Jester, about decent people running for office. The midterms evidenced that the MAGA stranglehold on the Party might be loosening, time will tell. But I’m the immediate, I really don’t know what can be done to effective change course back to actual conservatism and to less performative art in an effort to ‘own the libs’.

    Dana (1225fc)

  14. It is possible to disagree without calling one another names, being rude, or implying people with whom you disagree are evil or stupid. This blog used to be about that.

    There are some commenters, AJ, who were here when it used to be that way. I think you were one of them.

    But here we are, in the middle school lunchroom as the food fight explodes all around us.

    Clean up will be a mess.

    Best wishes.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  15. What we need, we can’t get: decent people running for office.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 2/9/2023 @ 1:53 pm

    So true. It’s because of the voters. Voters don’t reward decent people who speak reasonably. They prefer the ones who oversimplify things, and talk like professional wrestlers.

    In order to get better leaders, the voters themselves must improve.

    norcal (7345e5)

  16. Dana, I agree wholeheartedly. The fake macho nonsense makes me unhappy—no amount of “hitting back” will ever fix things.

    What will fix things? Better policies. Better people. Fewer liars and bullies.

    But we may have stepped off that cliff. I hope not.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  17. R.I.P. Burt Bacharach

    Icy (7a93eb)

  18. Norcal, I hate to tell you how little the students I teach know about history, civics, or even logical debate.

    Too much political nonsense in K-12.

    I wish I had a solution. The party heads want everyone to think via bumper stickers.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  19. None of what DCSCA lists in #5 begins to approach the heinous things Trump has said and done. They aren’t even in the same ballpark.

    He’s too in love with Trump to realize this.

    norcal (7345e5)

  20. Who do you see leading the way back to the Republican Party of even ten years ago?

    No one, nor is it desirable. The Sixth Party System, ratified by the election of Ronald Reagan, ended abruptly in 2016. We are now in a different era, where alignments that had coasted on inertia are ruptured and being reformed.

    The Globalist era is over for now, and nationalism is more important. This is something that both parties now profess, as Biden did the other night and Trump did in 2016. Since Trump was unable to do more than destroy, it remains to be seen if it will be the Left or the Right that rebuilds on the wreckage.

    But there is just no going back. There are too many previously disposable voters in the trades and working classes who, having found a voice, are not going back to their previous condition of steady loss to the twin attacks of globalization and unfettered immigration.

    They voted for Trump. Now Biden is making a strong plea for their vote. Countering with “free trade” is a loser.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  21. disparaging the 47% to wealthy donors

    That was provably edited.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  22. I wish I had a solution. The party heads want everyone to think via bumper stickers.

    Twitter ate out every night off that.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  23. Simon,

    I don’t have kids, so I haven’t paid much attention to what goes on in schools. I do know that it was bad 30 years ago when my mother was teaching.

    The capture of the education system by lefties may be the biggest loss conservatives ever suffered. Should I have done more to stop it? Probably.

    My only hope is that, like the hippies growing up and having stock portfolios, a similar evolution will take place with today’s young people.

    norcal (7345e5)

  24. The capture of the education system by lefties may be the biggest loss conservatives ever suffered

    If the problem is polarization and tribalism, then that capture is part of the disease. Once a group becomes dominated by one view, they force everyone else out and then start thinking of that view as “normal.” Once that happens, intolerance of opposing views is normal, as is viewing those others are evil or deluded or otherwise not worthy of attention.

    And civility with those others is no longer a virtue.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  25. ‘Tis true, Kevin. I have stories.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  26. When I asked Who do you see leading the way back to the Republican Party of even ten years ago?, i was thinking more about simple civility and norms that have been mainstays of the Party, and less the framework of the Party. I believe that regardless of the era we’re in, if the Republican Party wanted to be one respectful dialog in the halls of Congress and with the other side of the aisle, rather than these constant gotcha attacks and manipulations, it could. Also, anybody can destroy something, the question is: what can the Republican Party of today build that benefits all Americans and strengthens us on all fronts? Destroying norms is easy, building up something lasting takes qualities that I don’t see in big supply on the Right these days.

    Dana (1225fc)

  27. Occasionally I see a good article from a local TV station. This one is from Reno.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/economist-to-reno-things-are-not-as-bad-some-would-have-you-believe/ar-AA17gMBw?cvid=8ed5ec246f2e482a9e1cf1a6f2cc099f

    This is spot-on:

    “Political rhetoric in the United States boils down to: ‘Your life is terrible. It’s all the other party’s fault, so elect us.’ We need to be smarter about that as electors. For example, stop voting on party lines.”

    norcal (7345e5)

  28. There is unfortunately very little correlation between “decent” members of Congress and a decent voting record, and ultimately it’s the voting record that’s the end product.

    There are plenty of decent Democrats, and Adam Kinzinger was probably a decent Republican, but he voted for Biden’s spending boondoggle and “indecent” MTG didn’t.

    Not really interested in voting for decent politicians who inflict indecent policies and indecent judges on us, and those who expect voters to vote that way are simply detached from reality. Whether or not you care to admit it, that’s where the true divide is.

    JF (bf0c49)

  29. Dana, it is always easier to destroy than to build.

    I hate to bring up Ronald Reagan, but I loved it when Jimmy Carter got served.

    https://youtu.be/qN7gDRjTNf4

    Of course, we all suspected this:

    https://youtu.be/b5wfPlgKFh8

    I miss Phil Hartman.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  30. @19. Except Trump won. Delecto didn’t.

    “Americans love a winner- and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time.” G.S. Patton [Geoirge C. Scott] ‘Patton’ 1970

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  31. @21. Pierre himself disagrees with you, Kevin:

    ‘When the video was disclosed on Sept. 17 [2012] by liberal magazine Mother Jones, Romney said his comments had been “not elegantly stated” but that he stood by them. “In this case, I said something that was just completely wrong,”’ – Pierre Delecto

    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-campaign-romney-idUSL1E8L51DR20121005

    “‘Tish! That’s French!” – Gomez Addams [john Astin] ‘The Addams Family’ ABC TV, 1964-66

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  32. @30 Translation: It doesn’t matter if you lack integrity and character as long as you win.

    norcal (7345e5)

  33. When I asked Who do you see leading the way back to the Republican Party of even ten years ago?, i was thinking more about simple civility and norms that have been mainstays of the Party, and less the framework of the Party. I believe that regardless of the era we’re in, if the Republican Party wanted to be one respectful dialog in the halls of Congress and with the other side of the aisle, rather than these constant gotcha attacks and manipulations, it could. Also, anybody can destroy something, the question is: what can the Republican Party of today build that benefits all Americans and strengthens us on all fronts? Destroying norms is easy, building up something lasting takes qualities that I don’t see in big supply on the Right these days.

    This could have been an editorial quilled by a Rockefeller Republican on the eve of the 1964 convention at the Cow Palace.

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  34. There is no “going back” to the GOP of ten years ago, or 40 years ago. It started dying the minute Bush didn’t let the free market work and signed off on TARP, letting the banks get away with years of securities fraud. Letting Jeb waltz his clueless self into the 2016 primary put the final nail in the coffin.

    It’s not coming back, ever. It’s dead. It’s gone.

    And the reason it’s not going back is because the neocons forgot the very thing that Reagan warned about–if you want to preserve something you value, you better be willing to fight for it. They don’t control the GOP anymore for the same reason the left took control of the Cathedral. When the time came to make a choice as to whether they were going to fight for it or walk away, they chose the latter. If they weren’t going to fight the culture war against the left over the last 30-plus years, when it impacted areas that directly affected their own communities and institutions, why should anyone have been concerned that they’d fight to keep their own party?

    They didn’t fight for the party the same reason they didn’t fight for the the culture–because they didn’t value it enough to preserve it. They did what they always do in these fights–retreat and hope someone with more backbone does the dirty work to keep the waves at bay.

    Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3)

  35. What we need, we can’t get: decent people running for office.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 2/9/2023 @ 1:53 pm

    Actually, we did: one of the most descent individuals who ever ran for high office and won was a fella named James Earl Carter, Jr. A man of high morals; sound integrity; principled, pious virtues and competent intellect.

    And your assessment:

    I hate to bring up Ronald Reagan, but I loved it when Jimmy Carter got served.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 2/9/2023 @ 2:41 pm

    Too funny.

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  36. DCSCA (a941d8) — 2/9/2023 @ 3:26 pm

    spot on

    JF (bf0c49)

  37. @!34. It’s not coming back, ever. It’s dead. It’s gone.

    Reagan left office on January 20, 1989.

    THIRTY FOUR YEARS AGO.

    FDR passed away in office April 12, 1945.

    Anybody recall folks wistfully longing for four-time-elected FDR in 1979, THIRTY FOUR YEARS after he left office?

    Nope.

    The Gipper days are gone; move on: Cher sums this up nicely:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  38. TARP actually worked, as did quantitative easing.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  39. TARP actually worked, as did quantitative easing.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 2/9/2023 @ 3:43 pm

    So what? It shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

    Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3)

  40. What this country needs is a better quality of washed up TV news anchors turned failed politicians to help ineffectual political fringe groups assure themselves that they matter.

    nk (bb1548)

  41. That tells you a lot about CPAC.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/02/the-new-cpac-makes-old-cpac-look-like-the-resistance.html

    n 2014, a dissident group of conservatives held their own counter CPAC called the Uninvited. It featured speakers on the hard right such as Senator Ted Cruz and Representative Mo Brooks and featured a welcome address from Steve Bannon, whose then-website Breitbart sponsored the event. Inside CPAC that year were Carly Fiorina, Senator Pat Toomey, and foreign-policy veteran John Bolton.

    Fast-forward to CPAC in 2021. Cruz and Brooks, who both vocally supported Donald Trump’s challenge to certifying Joe Biden’s win on January 6, are speaking at CPAC. Fiorina voted for Biden, Toomey voted to convict Trump in his second impeachment trial, and Bolton became a vocal Trump critic who was cited as a key witness in the first impeachment trial….

    ….The role of CPAC on the right has changed since it was founded in the early 1970s. Then, the Republican Party still featured genuine liberals like Nelson Rockefeller and Jacob Javits. Conservatives were just one faction of the party, not the party itself. Since then, it has evolved with the grassroots. In the Obama era, there was a strong presence of libertarians aligned with Ron and Rand Paul and, under Trump, red MAGA hats replaced yellow Gadsden flags as the accessory of choice.

    “I think there was a period of time where people considered CPAC ‘this is the crazies, this is carnival, this is separate than real business of conservative politics.’ And that’s clearly not the case now,” said Tim Miller, a former Republican operative turned vocal Trump critic, “but I’m starting to question now whether it ever was.”

    Miller worked for Jeb Bush’s presidential campaign when the former Florida governor attended, despite the fact that it was not his natural habitat. “This is where the crazy Republicans gather, not Jeb voters,” remembered Miller. “We’ll go there to demonstrate that Jeb can appeal to all sides of the party and maybe pick up a few strays.” As it turned out, “the CPAC audience was the primary electorate and [Bush] wasn’t welcome there because he wasn’t welcome among primary voters.”

    For a large contingent of attendees who sit through every minute of the conference, CPAC is their vacation. For others, it’s a raucous party: Young conservatives show up to hear fiery speeches during the day and get absolutely lit at night. Then there are the professional operatives and D.C. journalists for whom this is a networking event, a chance to woo clients and cultivate sources. They’re there to swap some business cards and expense some drinks. Finally, there is just the fringe attracted by a big crowd and a large press pen. If you too want to turn yourself into an alt-right martyr or just shout at national reporters, CPAC is the place.

    Terry Schilling, an ACU board member who met his wife at CPAC, which he first attended in 2006, described the event “as really a reflection of the conservative movement and where it is headed.” He noted when he first went to the event, attendees all seemed to wear “bow ties, sport coats, and boat shoes.” Schilling argued the crowd was now far more diverse: “There are truckers and people with tattoos and purple hair,” and it was an event that was no longer reliant on people who read National Review.

    And, for Schlapp, the CPAC crowd was the perfect litmus test of conservative feeling in the country. “It’s a random association of people who buy their own tickets, come from all over the country, and it’s not a cheap thing to attend. If that’s not an example of where the conservative movement is, I don’t know what would be.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  42. 7. In this case they know who did it (he committed suicide) and it may be related to being fired from the company where they both once worked

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  43. @40. What this country needs is a better quality of washed up TV news anchors turned failed politicians to help ineffectual political fringe groups assure themselves that they matter.

    An encyclopedia of local anchors who ran for office

    https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/local_tv_anchors_ran_for_office_list.php

    Quite a lengthy list… including familiar names as:

    Sarah Palin: Republican, Alaska. Worked as a sports journalist at KTUU and KTVA in Anchorage, before… well, you know what happened next. Currently attempting a political comeback in Alaska. Sued the New York Times for libel and lost this year.

    J.D. Hayworth: Republican, Arizona. A sportscaster and anchor in South Carolina, Ohio, and Arizona in the eighties. Served in the US House from 1995 to 2007. Later seen on Newsmax.

    Dan Patrick: Republican, Texas. Also worked as a sports journalist, at stations in Scranton, DC, and Texas. Now the lieutenant governor of the latter state. Born Dannie Goeb, he was reportedly advised by a station manager in Scranton to change his last name to “Patrick” because it was easier to pronounce. Not to be confused with the other sportscaster called Dan Patrick.

    Too funny.

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  44. Well if Thomas Jefferson was alive today he’d be drummed out of politics for owning slaves, except today slavery isn’t allowed, so Thomas Jefferson 2023 wouldn’t be the same as Thomas Jefferson 1801. I was going to counter by saying Reagan always tried not to criticize his party in front of others, but who knows what Reagan would have said of Trump privately or publicly. The world in which Reagan was raised is vastly different than a Reagan today would experience

    steveg (1be97a)

  45. Why pick a loser to send your message?
    Dana (1225fc) — 2/9/2023 @ 12:00 pm

    Maybe for the same reason a loser is often picked for VP.

    felipe (77b190)

  46. @32. Read it and weep:

    Who truly was the most dishonest president?

    Former President Donald Trump was often accused of having a complete disregard for the truth. Yet some of his predecessors’ falsehoods ranged from the bizarre to the horrifying. So how does Trump truly compare?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56246507

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  47. There is no “going back” to the GOP of ten years ago, or 40 years ago. It started dying the minute Bush didn’t let the free market work and signed off on TARP, letting the banks get away with years of securities fraud. Letting Jeb waltz his clueless self into the 2016 primary put the final nail in the coffin.

    It’s not coming back, ever. It’s dead. It’s gone.

    I could have written this myself because Tarp was the final straw that precipitated my withdrawal form the R party as I had finally realized that the party had left me. Since then it has been so much desalination.

    “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.”

    It took a civil war for the country to be seasoned. What will it take to season the Republican party?

    felipe (77b190)

  48. From NJRob’s link:

    Russell Heller, 51, was found dead just after 7 a.m. in the Somerset parking lot of PSE&G, the local energy company where the Milford Republican worked.

    Cops quickly IDed a former employee, Gary Curtis, 58, as a suspect — and found him dead in his car from a suspected self-inflicted gunshot around three and a half hours after the slaying.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  49. @47. What will it take to season the Republican party?

    The five stages of grief:

    1. Denial and Isolation

    The first stage of grief is denial. This is usually accompanied by isolation. During this stage, it is normal for people to think that there is no way the situation can be real.

    2. Anger

    The second stage of grief is anger. Anger might also be a way to reconnect to the world after isolating yourself from it during the denial stage. When you’re numb, you disconnect from everyone. When you’re angry, you connect, even if through this emotion.

    3. Bargaining

    The third stage of grief is bargaining. Bargaining is a stage of grief that helps you hold on to hope in a situation of intense pain.

    4. Depression

    Depression is the fourth stage of grief. During the depression stage, you start facing your present reality and the inevitability of the loss you’ve experienced. Understandably, this realization may lead you to feel intense sadness and despair.

    5. Acceptance

    The last stage of grief is called acceptance. Acceptance is more about how you acknowledge the losses you’ve experienced, how you learn to live with them, and how you readjust your life accordingly.

    Calibrate where the Republican Party is accordingly.

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  50. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/9/2023 @ 5:51 pm

    More:

    A former employee who worked with Mr. Heller at Public Service Electric and Gas Co. allegedly killed the councilman, investigators said. PSE&G said Mr. Heller worked as a senior distribution supervisor.
    ……..
    Investigators said Mr. Heller’s death was an isolated incident and they are trying to determine why the former PSE&G employee, 58-year-old Gary Curtis, targeted Mr. Heller.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  51. Biden Blithely Admits One of Documents FBI Seized Is From 1974 in Troubling PBS Interview

    https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/02/09/biden-blithely-admits-one-of-documents-fbi-seized-is-from-1974-in-troubling-pbs-interview-n700851

    50 years in the garage?! Then he shifts responsibility and blame by throwsing his staff under the bus for packing them up, as he failed to acknowledge the documents had no business being in his possession as a senator in the first place… but oh, yes, let’s lie about Social Security cuts toss chaff into the air to distract, even though you tried to cut it four times yourself– and the video exists to prove it. This dude is more Nixon than Nixon.

    DCSCA (a941d8)

  52. We have decent people in politics but 1. nobody pays any attention to them. 2. They are automatically demonized because of their political party (either political party).

    Nic (896fdf)

  53. Rip,

    That’s the 2nd murder of a Republican official in NJ in a week that you are so quick to dismiss. Now do the other murder. Whitewash it away.

    NJRob (cd5970)

  54. NJRob (cd5970) — 2/9/2023 @ 7:14 pm

    You’re alleging these are political assassinations. Make your case.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  55. AllahNick quoting Podhoretz:

    ““What Biden and his people do seem to understand is that what saved Democrats in 2022 from the chopping block might save them in 2024: the fear among voters who will decide Biden’s fate—and the fate of Democrats running down ballot—that too many Republican politicians are weird, unpleasant, and crazy,” wrote Podhoretz.”

    Nick concludes:

    “Republicans risk facing an election next year in which Democrats are offering the center a broadly acceptable blue-collar menu on kitchen-table issues without the weird unpleasant craziness associated with the MAGA right.”

    But unpleasant seems to be the chef’s order. Gone is Reagan’s charm. Might as well put Tucker forward for the nomination. Why pretend….

    AJ_Liberty (d95f0b)

  56. Dana, I appreciate you linking to AllahNick, but his latest is more apt (cutting and pasting liberally).

    The difference between 2016 and 2024 isn’t that there’ll be no Reaganites in the field next time. The difference is that the Reaganites will stand no chance of winning.

    The two guys who do stand a chance will aim to form a coalition that looks quite different from the three-legged stool [fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, defense hawks]. By the time Trump and DeSantis are done, that stool could have one leg. And even that leg might be wobbly.

    As further evidence that Reaganism didn’t quite die in 2016, consider some of Trump’s positions on the campaign trail and during his first year as president.

    He broke sharply with the fiscal priorities of Paul-Ryan-ism as a candidate when he vowed to protect entitlements. But he also worried enough about securing the first leg of the proverbial stool that he felt obliged to promise, absurdly, that he’d eliminate the national debt if given eight years as president.

    After taking office, he dashed populist fantasies of a Republican redistribution program for the working class by signing tax cuts that created the biggest windfall for the highest earners, spearheaded by Ryan himself. By no means were those cuts fiscally conservative in substance given their effect on the deficit. But in the degraded sense of what “fiscal conservatism” means in Republican politics—tax cuts, period—it kept the first leg sturdy.

    How about the second leg? It’s true that Trump was unusually sanguine about gay rights, including gay marriage, for a Republican candidate. But he tacked right in a number of ways to try to appease social conservatives, starting with his choice of a pious evangelical as a running mate over the Trumpier Chris Christie.

    The idea that a louche billionaire playboy from Manhattan might adamantly oppose abortion has always been absurd but that’s the image Trump cultivated as he tried to keep the second leg from going wobbly. In 1999 he called himself “very pro-choice,” opposing even partial-birth abortion. By 2016, as a Republican candidate, he was pledging to overturn Roe v. Wade and calling for pregnant women—not just their doctors but the women themselves—to be punished if they terminated their pregnancies. Informed that that view was too hardline even for most conservatives, he quickly abandoned it. Then he tacked left by suggesting that abortion laws, i.e. Roe, should remain unchanged. Then he walked that back too.

    That kind of incoherence is what happens when you speak pro-life as a second or even third language. Trump obviously didn’t care deeply about banning abortion. But he knew that Reagan’s stool wouldn’t stand without its second leg so he said what he had to say to social conservatives to make them believe that he did.

    The third leg of the stool represented Trump’s sharpest break with Reaganite orthodoxy. He criticized the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, questioned whether the U.S. should defend Europe if Russia attacked, and made admiring noises about Putin’s leadership. The bit in the Haley video about America being a force for good and its domestic detractors straining to blame the country for the world’s ills is an obvious shot at Trump’s brand of nationalist isolationism.

    But his isolationism isn’t the same as, say, Ron Paul’s. Trump repeatedly sought to assure conservative hawks in 2016 that he’d demonstrate “strength” as president despite his skepticism of foreign interventions. He endorsed using torture against outfits like ISIS in order to “beat the savages.” He suggested bombing terrorists’ families to deter terrorism and, when told that it would be illegal, boasted that the military would obey his orders anyway. Less than three months after being sworn in, he bombed Syria to punish Assad for a chemical weapons attack on his own people. Later that year, he threatened to nuke North Korea. And of course, through it all, he boasted that he’d break with his predecessors and get tough on Chy-nah.

    Internationalist hawks were dismayed by his soft line on Russia but less doctrinaire right-wingers could feel reassured that a figure as obsessed with toughness as Trump wouldn’t be a pushover for any enemies. The third leg held.

    I don’t know if the three legs will hold in 2024. The dynamics of a Trump/DeSantis death match portend a race to the nationalist bottom.

    Bottom line, there are no more legs. It’s about populism and whatever strikes Trump’s fancy. Today’s GOP basically stands for nothing.

    BTW, I’ve said that DeSantis tries to out-Trump Trump, but Nick has a better descriptor…

    He’s a panderer, after all. His trajectory from 2013 to 2023 reveals him to be a politician with a single M.O.: He chases whatever ideological fad the populists in his party happen to be chasing at a given moment and then tries to be 20 percent “extra” about it. Paul Ryan wants to trim entitlements? Rep. DeSantis will take a chainsaw to entitlements. Donald Trump wants to own the libs by building a wall? Gov. DeSantis will spend Florida taxpayers’ money to dump migrants in the libs’ backyards.

    DeSantis is just better at it than other panderers like Cruz, Rubio, Graham, etc. This doesn’t mean I won’t support DeSantis over Trump.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  57. Dana mitt romney belongs to a party that no longer exists. Until you here realize reagan laid the seeds for that destruction of the republican corporate establishment with his milton friedman/bill buckley economic libertarianism as espoused by the koch brothers and using nixon’s southern strategy to bring in ignorant southern white trash racist populist democrats for their votes. Economic libertarian free traders are the direct opposite of populists. The tea party was the hollow shell that populists poured into to take over the republican party. God guns and gays only worked until trump gave the populists real immigration reform instead of romney’s corporate lip service. The donor class and their running dogs in congress were for free trade until they heard the magic words we will primary corporate free trade stooges! Crooks like reagan (read dark victory) pretend to believe in something until they get caught in Iran/contra do more harm then nixon or trump who everybody knew was a crook. The bush’es and romney were corporate establishment sleaze bags and fooled nobody same as both clintons and biden for the democrats. As long as you worship a corrupt reagan you will continue to flounder. Sun Tzu If you know your enemy and yourself (as I do) you need not fear the out come of a hundred battles (like abortion rights) If you know neither you will always lose. Both major parties are socially liberal or socially conservative populists because thats where the votes are. Both trump and desatan are populists or at least pretend to be. who is running as an economic libertarain free trader?

    asset (86cd99)

  58. Pierre himself disagrees with you, Kevin:

    If you look at the video that Mother Jones posted, it was in two segments. The first segment ends on the period in the money quote. The second segment starts some time later, and more than seconds. They claimed that the recording stopped, that the camera had to be restarted. But they restarted it without moving the background one iota, making their explanation a laughable lie.

    A segment was cut out following the quote for reasons unknown but they were obviously not harmful to Romney.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser/

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  59. @58. Face it: Romney said his comments had been “not elegantly stated” but that he stood by them. “In this case, I said something that was just completely wrong,”’ – Pierre Delecto

    DCSCA (233419)

  60. It started dying the minute Bush didn’t let the free market work and signed off on TARP, letting the banks get away with years of securities fraud.

    Markets work on the margin, and they cannot work if there are discontinuities or if the value of securities is unmeasureable.

    In letting Lehman fail, they had broken everything — Lehman failing meant that repurchase agreements would all fail, which meant that the insurers of repurchase agreements would all fail, at which point the whole structure comes down and “money” becomes opinion.

    It wasn’t that TARP was wrong — some interventions was necessary, but that it attacked the wrong end of the problem. They should have shored up the mortgages themselves by paying down X percent of all home mortgages, bailing out the homeowners, and the banks only indirectly. Yes, that would be unfair to renters, but what they did was unfair to everyone.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  61. Well, DCSCA, Who am I to believe, my own two eyes or your blather? The link is there. Look at the end of “part 1”, their explanation of the amazingly fortunate timing of the recording break, and then the beginning or “Part 2”, paying attention to the framing of the room.

    About 2 minutes of Romney’s talk was intentionally cut, immediately following the money quote. Romney probably has no idea what he said in those 2 minutes, but Mother Jones didn’t want you to hear it.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  62. “Republicans risk facing an election next year in which Democrats are offering the center a broadly acceptable blue-collar menu on kitchen-table issues without the weird unpleasant craziness associated with the MAGA right.”

    Except that the Democrats have their own New Green Deal and other hard-Left crazies, wokism, LBGTQ+ agenda where the “+” does not include “straight”, and hard-core anti-Americans, Marxists and others competing for attention. Do you expect them to be quiet?

    Sure, if Trump is the candidate again, they will lose again, and badly. But Biden cannot win against anyone else.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  63. Nikki Haley announces 2/15. She got elected governor in the Old South defeating a concerted old white boy network in her own party. Twice. I’m going to enjoy the undoing of anyone who underestimates her or, God forbid, condescends. I would think that Republican women might see her more interesting than Donald Trump or even DeSantis who is already getting tiring.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  64. You’re alleging these are political assassinations. Make your case.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 2/9/2023 @ 7:34 pm

    I don’t need to. If it was a Democrat the case would already be made by the media. But you know that already.

    NJRob (cd5970)

  65. “Except that the Democrats have their own New Green Deal and other hard-Left crazies”

    Except this misses the point. You’re somehow arguing that Biden will embrace the hard-left crazies. That’s not quite what 2020 and 2022 suggest. That’s not what the SoTU address suggests. DeSantis is doing everything in his power to appeal to the hard-right, including using taxpayer money to ship illegals to liberal cities and continuing a weird jihad against covid vaccinations. The left-wing will always be tugging at the Democrat party. The question is which of the wings seems to be driving its party and which party is positioning itself to win moderates and swing states?

    I don’t believe it’s the Democrats election to lose because Biden is a drag with his #2 not inspiring much confidence. DeSantis can also end up tacking more to the center after dispatching Trump, but for many he’s cemented an impression: he wants to be the President of the Red States. How do the swing states like that?

    AJ_Liberty (d95f0b)

  66. I don’t need to. If it was a Democrat the case would already be made by the media. But you know that already.

    Don’t burden-shift, Rob. You’re making the allegation, so it’s on you to back it up.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  67. Although not as bad as Mr. Santos, Ms. Luna also has some fiction laced into her life story.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  68. Paul loves minimizing attacks on Republicans while piling on attacks on Republicans. Why is that?

    Thou dost protest too much.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  69. NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/10/2023 @ 6:03 am

    Non-responsive, Rob. Stop evading and make your case.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  70. #65

    Is busing willing immmigrants from the Texas borderland to New York or other sanctuary cities really a “hard right” position? Yes, it is performative, but politics is alawys partly a performance art. That’s partly why Reagan was so good at it. You may notice that the New York City mayor now wants to ship his newly arrived undocumented to Canada and upstate New York

    I despise the fact that the GOP has made cruelty and conspiracy a part of their brand. That does not make everything they do wrong or stupid or even hard right.

    Appalled (f6b74d)

  71. Don’t burden-shift, Rob. You’re making the allegation, so it’s on you to back it up.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 2/10/2023 @ 5:14 am

    If this is your true belief then why did you “burden-shift” on the SOTU thread?

    I asked you about your allegation and you told me I was on my own to find out. What you finally came back with didn’t prove your specific allegation at all.

    Was you specific allegation false?

    BuDuh (2005d7)

  72. BuDuh, how about answering my question first, the one you avoided yesterday.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  73. Two-way street, fellas.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  74. Oh, and I did prove it, BuDuh, you simply refused to accept it. But hey, it’s your opinion.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  75. I wasn’t planning on answering any questions “first.” I was hoping you would have quoted what exactly was said that backed up your claim first.

    You haven’t.

    The burden shift continues.

    BuDuh (2005d7)

  76. As AJ, Simon, and others lament on how this place used to be I truly wonder if they ever look at the debate style employed by Paul and nk, and consider the possibility that this is equally off putting to some of us who actually do want to hammer out issues.

    It is a tough crowd here to try and move the needle in an honest attempt.

    Have a safe 2023, everyone.

    BuDuh (2005d7)

  77. Two-way street, BuDuh. It was a simple question, yet you’re evading.
    I don’t know why hyperpartisans like you and Rob and FWO pull that sh-t.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  78. Buduh,

    You’ll never get a clear answer. But you know that already.

    NJRob (1e8341)

  79. @9

    Let’s talk about the Republican Party, and what you want to see happen with it, where it’s been and where it’s going.also, how do you see the gulf being bridge in the Party between moderates and hard right/MAGA, or is it even possible? Who do you see leading the way back to the Republican Party of even ten years ago?

    Dana (1225fc) — 2/9/2023 @ 1:51 pm

    I don’t ever hope to see the Republican party of even ten years ago.

    I need the Republican party to be that anti-Communist/anti-progressive party.

    That means, engaging on the cultural issues, and not acceding ground to the cultural marxist in the education/entertainment sphere.

    I don’t know where that is in the current “MAGA” or “moderate” camp, but they need each other for the party to succeed.

    Breitbart (the man, not the website) said it best: Politics is downstream from culture.

    And culture is simply what society incentivizes and disincentives.

    As such, in a society, we cannot cede ground to the marxist extremist that is dominating the political left. Even that means using the levers of power in government that the right has traditionally avoided.

    That’s part of the reason why Trump happened (but, he fights!), even though its oversold imo.

    That’s why DeSantis has legs, particularly how he butted heads during pandemic, Disney and education.

    The old Republican party is dead, and there’s no use to pine for it. If you want the new Republican party to be “something”, you have to put in the work to affect the change you desire. But, I would argue that any new version of the Republican party MUST somehow bridge the moderates and the far right, in order to have any chance to win future elections. To do so, otherwise, will relegate the party to the Washington General of politics.

    whembly (d116f3)

  80. @26

    When I asked Who do you see leading the way back to the Republican Party of even ten years ago?, i was thinking more about simple civility and norms that have been mainstays of the Party, and less the framework of the Party. I believe that regardless of the era we’re in, if the Republican Party wanted to be one respectful dialog in the halls of Congress and with the other side of the aisle, rather than these constant gotcha attacks and manipulations, it could. Also, anybody can destroy something, the question is: what can the Republican Party of today build that benefits all Americans and strengthens us on all fronts? Destroying norms is easy, building up something lasting takes qualities that I don’t see in big supply on the Right these days.

    Dana (1225fc) — 2/9/2023 @ 2:28 pm

    Honestly, I don’t think we should be looking at the upper leaderships in the Republican party to “build” something that is lasting.

    It simply doesn’t work. Or at least, any gains are short term as we’re in an era that doesn’t seem like there’s going to be a long term dominance in either party.

    What does work, imo, takes a LOT of work, a LOT of money and a LOT of political willpower.

    That is, focus on local state and city elections. Like the local school boards. Local Sheriffs. Local mayor. All the way up to the State governorship and legislatures.

    Florida GOP has provided that blueprint for other red-states to copy. DeSantis’ own campaign, offered resources to local school board elections and Sheriff/AG elections.

    Essentially, the national Republican party must fortify existing strongholds at the local levels, so that, over time, as these political individuals can climb the ranks into the federal elections with strong records to tout.

    whembly (d116f3)

  81. @34

    There is no “going back” to the GOP of ten years ago, or 40 years ago. It started dying the minute Bush didn’t let the free market work and signed off on TARP, letting the banks get away with years of securities fraud. Letting Jeb waltz his clueless self into the 2016 primary put the final nail in the coffin.

    It’s not coming back, ever. It’s dead. It’s gone.

    And the reason it’s not going back is because the neocons forgot the very thing that Reagan warned about–if you want to preserve something you value, you better be willing to fight for it. They don’t control the GOP anymore for the same reason the left took control of the Cathedral. When the time came to make a choice as to whether they were going to fight for it or walk away, they chose the latter. If they weren’t going to fight the culture war against the left over the last 30-plus years, when it impacted areas that directly affected their own communities and institutions, why should anyone have been concerned that they’d fight to keep their own party?

    They didn’t fight for the party the same reason they didn’t fight for the the culture–because they didn’t value it enough to preserve it. They did what they always do in these fights–retreat and hope someone with more backbone does the dirty work to keep the waves at bay.

    Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3) — 2/9/2023 @ 3:25 pm

    Yup. And it’s interesting that some pine for the Old GOP, lie Reagan and Bush Sr.

    Did they all forget, how much of a political brawler Reagan (and esp Bush Sr.?).

    whembly (d116f3)

  82. Rip,

    That’s the 2nd murder of a Republican official in NJ in a week that you are so quick to dismiss. Now do the other murder. Whitewash it away.

    NJRob (cd5970) — 2/9/2023 @ 7:14 pm

    Speaking of whataboutism. I don’t need to whitewash away Eunice Dwumfour‘s murder (you can’t even use her name). There are no facts about her death-street crime, jealous lover, mob hit, political assassination-who knows?

    Like the four students killed in Idaho, it’s best to let the investigation run its course before unwarranted speculation takes hold. Patience is a virtue.

    Rip Murdock (69f385)

  83. By the time Eunice Dwumfour‘s murder is solved, you will have moved on and continued to exaggerate and fabricate claims about whatever you want without facts.

    Rip Murdock (69f385)

  84. @81

    Yup. And it’s interesting that some pine for the Old GOP, lie Reagan and Bush Sr.

    Did they all forget, how much of a political brawler Reagan (and esp Bush Sr.?).

    whembly (d116f3) — 2/10/2023 @ 7:44 am

    Sent this before proofreading.

    Meant:
    Yup. And it’s interesting that some pine for the Old GOP, ie Reagan and Bush Sr.

    Did they all forget, how much of a political brawler Reagan (and esp Bush Sr.) was???

    whembly (607028)

  85. 67, that’s good fiction and at least she was all woman. Makes me nostalgic for the laddie mag era.

    urbanleftbehind (48b3f9)

  86. “Is busing willing immmigrants from the Texas borderland to New York or other sanctuary cities really a “hard right” position?”

    Is it exploitive? Certainly. Does it appeal to illegal immigration moderates? Is it an honest attempt to solve a problem? Probably not. Would Reagan have done it? OK, probably not fair. The country, world, and our politics have changed in 40 years. But is the play Trumpian or Reaganesque in its character? Are most of DeSantis’ plays to the left of Trump or to the Right of Trump? He’s certainly been working the right flank. Now you may quibble over hard right, but I would argue that if you are to the Right of Trump on policy, you ain’t navigating for John Kasich voters.

    Now every conservative will get some glee from the air-transport stunt. It satisfies our visceral urge to say: if you won’t do more to shut the border, then you take ’em. But that’s what’s so frustrating about the issue, it’s fundamentally a hard problem, yet the loudest voices on both sides tends to trivialize it and prevent any movement to rational compromise. The voices like the issue…and the purity of their own solutions. But is DeSantis right? Well that action is probably legal. It will be tested. It draws attention. We don’t hear about more airlifts so the polling and testing of the question must not have been that popular.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  87. The correct answer, BuDuh, is three, as in three persons who cast aspersions on Romney, one using his inside voice, the other by link, and the other blasting the horn of a superferry. I don’t know why you’re in denial about it.

    In addition to, you, Rob and FWO, DC is another bloke who doesn’t questions. Funny that.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  88. you ain’t navigating for John Kasich voters.

    Kasich voters are easy. You just have to talk to them last.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  89. Rip,

    You are fibbing. Just like when you.posted cops being accused of murder, but ignored all the times they were shot or murdered. When I called you out on it you.saod it was “my beat.”

    Your agenda speaks for itself.

    NJRob (ab783d)

  90. Are most of DeSantis’ plays to the left of Trump or to the Right of Trump? He’s certainly been working the right flank. Now you may quibble over hard right, but I would argue that if you are to the Right of Trump on policy, you ain’t navigating for John Kasich voters.

    That’s an interesting claim a
    AJ. I thought the claim was Trump wasn’t conservative and was really a leftist. Now you are saying his positions are on the right and Kasich is to the left?

    NJRob (ab783d)

  91. And just a reminder that DeSantis has turned Florida from a purple, leaning left state, to a solidly red state. And he’s creating the 26th Constitutional carry state.

    On that note, why is a couple of states passing gay marriage laws create a referendum that the Supreme Court must spread a state issue across the land, but now 26 states fully acknowleging the 2nd Amendment’s right to bear arms and they are silent?

    Culture issues will be the excuse.

    NJRob (ab783d)

  92. Rip,

    You are fibbing. Just like when you.posted cops being accused of murder, but ignored all the times they were shot or murdered. When I called you out on it you.saod it was “my beat.”

    Your agenda speaks for itself.

    NJRob (ab783d) — 2/10/2023 @
    9:14 am

    Speaking of fibbers. I have no idea (which is my typical reaction to anything you post) what you are talking about. I don’t recall any posts I have made about cops accused of murder and have never used the phrase “my beat.”

    But then again you are changing the subject from Eunice Dwumfour‘s murder to a complete fiction.

    Rip Murdock (69f385)

  93. In addition to, you, Rob and FWO, DC is another bloke who doesn’t questions. Funny that.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 2/10/2023 @ 8:59 am

    Your questions get answered all the time. They’re just not answered in the manner you want them to be, so you think anyone not adhering to your narrow way of doing so is being “non-responsive.”

    Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3)

  94. Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3) — 2/10/2023 @ 9:36 am

    Tell me how Rob answered my question, FWO. Burden-shifting doesn’t count.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  95. What’s now being reported about what is happening at the St. Louis Children’s Hospital ought to disabuse anyone of the notion that the culture war doesn’t matter, or that it shouldn’t be fought because it’s “divisive.”

    Of course it’s divisive. That’s what happens when a society struggles over the very things that will define not just its collective identity, but who will control them. Worrying that fighting will prevent compromise is a piss-poor excuse to avoid standing up for what you supposedly believe in–where exactly do you draw the line before you say, “Enough is enough”?

    Reaction doesn’t happen without action; if you don’t like the reaction, don’t allow the action to take place to begin with.

    Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3)

  96. Tell me how Rob answered my question, FWO. Burden-shifting doesn’t count.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 2/10/2023 @ 9:38 am

    Go f*ck yourself. Take it up with Rob, not me.

    Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3)

  97. Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3) — 2/10/2023 @ 9:56 am

    You’re the one inserted yourself into this, bub. I’ll your non-answer as a “no”, that Rob didn’t answer the question.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  98. @61. Golly Kevin, maybe you should BELIEVE the admission by the Utah blatherer who admittied be blathered it and copped tp admitting he was wrong. Jeez.

    “Thick As A Brick”- Jethro Tull

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAt1b21S97k

    DCSCA (f30008)

  99. Kasich voters are easy. You just have to talk to them last.

    And chew your food with your mouth open.

    DCSCA (f30008)

  100. Tell me how Rob answered my question, FWO. Burden-shifting doesn’t count.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 2/10/2023 @ 9:38 am

    Go f*ck yourself. Take it up with Rob, not me.

    Factory Working Orphan (2d3cd3) — 2/10/2023 @ 9:56 am

    Telling a fellow commenter “Go f*ck yourself” is unacceptable. Consider this a polite warning from management.

    Dana (1225fc)

  101. Dana,

    Paul is trolling. He’s done so since he came here. Look at his long term history.

    I understand NeverTrump gets the benefit of the doubt, but I dealt with him on Hot Air under one of his other aliases. It’s a game he plays and I won’t bother with the sealioning anymore.

    NJRob (4e7238)

  102. whembly, the problem with stoking culture wars is that on political matters, one can compromise. On matters of cultural truth, there is no compromise. If there is no possibility for compromise, soon there is no interest in hearing from the other side. At which point, we “other” them and then all bets are off. In a divided country, that makes self government near impossible. If you have no respect for the other side, then how do you ever come together to solve any other problem? Everything becomes a proxy for the culture war. A dysfunctional legislature, then leads to an over-stepping executive and potentially an intruding judiciary. Everyone stretches their power to compensate for broken democracy…..over an impasse that has no solution. The culture war solution then must be imposed. Democracy is predicated on the agreement that we will not kill each other over our differences, yet you seem to believe we cannot accept differences. And if we cannot work through our differences through dialogue, then what is left is violence. We stockpile our guns and march off to reclaim our democracy. What exactly should I fear so much that I should invite violence into my life?

    These discussions generally stay at a relative superficial level on the internet. Everybody has his or her own trigger topics. We endlessly try and spin each other up. The proposed solution is to do everything possible to gain the upper hand. Look at the worst of the Left and do exactly that. That’s a sad prescription. We have to get back to persuasion. Get away from using existential dread, and allowing others to market it. Find things we can work together on and build trust. It’s the antithesis of Christian charity to demonize your neighbor and give up on hope. And battering and bullying others for not being as fanatical is the opposite of persuasion.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  103. @60 When bush allowed lehman bros. to free market “fail” The number one airline insurance company economically collapsed and could no longer insure airlines who told bush they would not be flying on monday. Other insurance companies and banks had their customers 401k accounts and other accounts frozen. Free market advocates didn’t care everyone else did. As it was the economy went into free fall allowing a black democrat to win the presidency.

    asset (62a5f7)

  104. @103 Thats my kind of talk! Discrediting the corporate establishment the center cannot hold.

    asset (62a5f7)

  105. Rob, no matter how much you complain, it’s not “trolling” to ask you back up your assertion. And it’s not “sealioning” either. Supporting a claim with evidence is something anybody with credibility should be able to do.
    So I’ll take your name-calling as a deflection and evasion from stepping up.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  106. Great comments today, whembly.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  107. I second that, Dustin. whembly is right. We won’t get better leaders, or parties for that matter, until the voters wise up.

    Enough wise voters will cause a bad leader to choose better policies. Similarly, bad voters will cause a good leader to choose the wrong policies.

    Trying to blame a party, or “the establishment”, is missing the mark. The problem lies with the voters. If there are enough voters who want something, they will get it.

    This should be obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis.

    norcal (7345e5)

  108. We have to get back to persuasion.

    Hypocrites make for poor persuaders. Ask Joey:

    FACT CHECK: JOE BIDEN HAS ADVOCATED CUTTING SOCIAL SECURITY FOR 40 YEARS

    “I tried with Senator Grassley back in the 1980s to freeze all government spending, including Social Security, including everything,” Biden said in 1995.

    https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/

    “Let’s go to the videotape….” – Warner Wolf:

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4846580/user-clip-joe-biden-cut-ss-4-times

    DCSCA (66b830)

  109. We won’t get better leaders, or parties for that matter, until the voters wise up.

    ROFLMAOPIP Blame the victims? Violating the public trust is not the fault of the public, norcal.

    DCSCA (66b830)

  110. DCSCA (66b830) — 2/10/2023 @ 2:43 pm

    Politicians are merely a reflection of the voters. Want better leaders? Get better voters.

    I’m not saying that voters are evil. No. By and large, they are good people who mean well, but they want conflicting things, and are easily manipulated.

    Witness how excited people were over Trump.

    norcal (7345e5)

  111. This place is always good for a chuckle.

    Do better, ladies!

    Colonel Haiku (66e923)

  112. Still in love with Trump, Colonel? That’s unfortunate.

    I remember the days when you supported Romney.

    norcal (7345e5)

  113. It scares me, but I realized the other day I have been posting internet comments for 20 years. The constant during all that time have been unheeded pleas for comity. The culture does not support it and the format we operate in does not support it. I will leave the why of that to the sociologists and the psychologists.

    As FWO notes, the culture war has some real casualties. Which makes it the concern of a democracy, like it or not. A politics that only concentrated on this, however, is going to turn into a regime of censorship, because how else to expunge wrongthink? I don’t particularly care for a politics that turns into a battle of who we censor today. I think we can survive drag story hour. I don’t think we can long survive as society that believes allowing 14 year olds to make life changing decisions around whether they start gender conversion therapy for the sake of making a buck.

    Appalled (b7a74a)

  114. @111. Politicians are merely a reflection of the voters. Want better leaders? Get better voters.

    ROFLMAOPIP. Except they’re not- especially when they BETRAY the public trust

    Case in point:

    “I pledge to you, all of the new voters in America who are listening on television and listening here in this convention hall, that I will do everything that I can over these next 4 years to make your support be one that you can be proud of, because as I said to you last night, and I feel it very deeply in my heart: Years from now I want you to look back and be able to say that your first vote was one of the best votes you ever cast in your life.” – The Big Dick, 8/23/1972

    DCSCA (66b830)

  115. when they BETRAY the public trust

    And the voters would have seen to his removal from office if he hadn’t resigned.

    If voters are stupid enough to re-elect Trump after HE betrayed the public trust by seeking to undermine elections, they deserve what they get.

    norcal (7345e5)

  116. I miss the old Haiku-DCSCA wars.

    urbanleftbehind (6fd15a)

  117. @117. Wouldn’t be much of a ‘fight’ these days as we’re more or less on similar ramparts.

    DCSCA (66b830)

  118. @116. Blaming the customer for a lousy product choice isn’t good business: so your POV is when two parties are pitching candidate Krapp and candid Poop for the same office, it’s the voters fault they only have those to choose from.

    Henry Ford once famously said about his Model T’s that, “You can have any color you want as long as it’s black”!

    DCSCA (66b830)

  119. When my body won’t hold me anymore
    And it finally lets me free
    Will I be ready?
    When my feet won’t walk another mile
    And my lips give their last kiss goodbye
    Will my hands be steady when I lay down my fears, my hopes, and my doubts?
    The rings on my fingers, and the keys to my house
    With no hard feelings

    When the sun hangs low in the west
    And the light in my chest won’t be kept held at bay any longer
    When the jealousy fades away
    And it’s ash and dust for cash and lust
    And it’s just hallelujah
    And love in thought, love in the words
    Love in the songs they sing in the church
    And no hard feelings

    Lord knows, they haven’t done much good for anyone
    Kept me afraid and cold
    With so much to have and hold

    When my body won’t hold me anymore
    And it finally lets me free
    Where will I go?
    Will the trade winds take me south through Georgia grain?
    Or tropical rain?
    Or snow from the heavens?
    Will I join with the ocean blue?
    Or run into a savior true?
    And shake hands laughing
    And walk through the night, straight to the light
    Holding the love I’ve known in my life
    And no hard feelings

    Lord knows they haven’t done much good for anyone
    Kept me afraid and cold
    With so much to have and hold
    Under the curving sky
    I’m finally learning why
    It matters for me and you
    To say it and mean it too
    For life and its loveliness
    And all of its ugliness
    Good as it’s been to me

    I have no enemies
    I have no enemies
    I have no enemies
    I have no enemies

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFGs7HP15d4

    Colonel Haiku (66e923)

  120. Those dudes dodged a Dimebag Darrell situation in Portland (big surprise).

    urbanleftbehind (6fd15a)

  121. So they do have enemies.

    Colonel Haiku (66e923)

  122. @120. ‘When my body won’t hold me anymore…’ I head for the Barcalounger. 😉

    DCSCA (66b830)

  123. Damn it!

    Colonel Haiku (66e923)

  124. so your POV is when two parties are pitching candidate Krapp and candid Poop for the same office, it’s the voters fault they only have those to choose from

    Now we’re getting somewhere.

    Yes, it’s the voters’ fault that there are two crappy candidates in the general election, because they didn’t vote for better people in the primaries.

    Did you vote for Trump in the primaries back in 2016, DCSCA? My guess is yes.

    norcal (7345e5)

  125. @125. Did you vote for Trump in the primaries back in 2016, DCSCA? My guess is yes.

    Considering the other weenies on the GOP menu, me and 1,635,348 others ordered the Trump steak instead.

    – Donald Trump VOTES:1,635,349 74.7% 172 delegates
    – John Kasich VOTES: 248,504 11.4%
    – Ted Cruz VOTES: 208,515 9.5%
    — Ben Carson VOTES: 80,381 3.7%
    — Jim Gilmore VOTES: 15,452 0.7%

    DCSCA (66b830)

  126. Most of Trump’s votes came after everyone else dropped out. Like in California.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  127. @127. Cruz a nobody? Carson? Even Kasich??? So your posts on Kasich mean you’re advocating a nobody. Got it.

    DCSCA (66b830)

  128. Trump turned out the be the biggest weenie of them all. How many of the others would have tried to overturn an election? Isn’t that a betrayal of public trust? Take your blinders off, DCSCA.

    norcal (7345e5)

  129. @129. Beef franks are much tastier than chicken, turkey or pork franks, norcal. Pass the mustard!

    DCSCA (060948)

  130. So, no betrayal of public trust by Trump when he tried to overturn the election?

    norcal (7345e5)

  131. Ronald Reagan was a populist of a sort when he won the California governorship in 1966. He also was when he challenged (campaigning on the Panama Canal) Gerald Ford for the GOP nomination in 1976. If the Never Trumpers had been around in 1976 they would have been for Ford. Reagan had more establishment Republican support when he won in 1980. The establishment types had to come over to Reagan’s side.

    DN (f5dfb0)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.1443 secs.