Patterico's Pontifications

11/28/2022

About *That* Dinner…

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:17 pm



[guest post by Dana]

I’m already tired of the story, but… I don’t know where you fall on whether we need to take the former president to task for his appalling lack of discretion regarding with whom he broke bread or whether we should just ignore the whole matter altogether. I am, of course, talking about Trump’s now infamous dinner with a vulgar anti-Semite and a racist white nationalist who has denied the Holocaust while referring Jews “burnt in concentration camps to cookies in an oven”.

Over at NRO, Jim Geraghty offers his take on the do-we-or-don’t-we-discuss conundrum:

I also go back and forth on the question of whether it’s worth it to commit significant amounts of time and energy to denouncing Trump’s gathering.

A former president choosing to meet with this ugly crowd is too newsworthy to ignore, and anyone with a shred of decency or functioning brain cells would, could, and should say, “no, you should not welcome a hip-hop star who recently pledged to go to ‘Death Con Three on Jewish people’ and a Holocaust-denying white nationalist.”

On the other hand, this is a familiar-to-the-point-of-boring part of Trump’s schtick and pattern of welcoming all controversy and all coverage, and uncontrollable neediness for praise — and Fuentes’s desire to be a bigger deal than the little troll that he is. It feels like by talking about that dinner, even to denounce the attendees, we’re doing all of those narcissists a favor.

Maybe we are, but I don’t think so. My feeling is that when an individual is seeking to hold the highest office in the land, everything he says and does is fair game, and more imporantly, *should be* scrutinized. There is no excuse for his behavior and with whom he chooses to associate with. There is also no pleading ignorance on the matter. Period. With that, nothing Trump does should surprise us. Nothing at all. Despite his multiple defenses and excuses for having said-bottom dwellers over for dinner, the fact remains that he will engage with anyone from whom he thinks he might benefit. And I mean anyone. The quality of the individual matters little. It’s all transactional. Given the moral fiber and character of Trump, the bar can always be lowered if the individual he is entertaining is that reprehensible.

Anyway, it’s been interesting to watch Republicans struggle to respond to Trump’s utter lack of judgment. It’s been nothing but crickets for almost a week. Let’s check in and see who has been brave enough to step into the fray. Republican Sen. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana tweeted his condemenation:

Sadly, Sen. Cassidy, this *is* indeed today’s Republican Party…

Along with Sen. Cassidy, Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) said that the Republican Party should condemn white supremacy and antisemitism:

“There’s no room in the Republican Party for white supremacists and antisemitism, so it’s wrong,” he told reporters as senators returned to the Capitol for votes.

Sen. John Thune of South Dakota was more general and less condemning in his reaction:

It’s interesting that Thune doesn’t condemn Trump’s judgment and behavior, but rather puts the blame on an advisor. He knows, as do we, that it doesn’t matter if anyone on Trump’s staff warned him against entertaining those specific guests because he wouldn’t have listened.

It’s good to see a few Republicans speak out, but you know who didn’t wait a week and test the political winds before condeming the former president’s lack of judgment? You guessed it:

There’s some irony that the one Republican who has been virtually rejected by the Republican Party at large because she refused to go-along-to-get-along, continues to stand firm in her principles and those of the (once) Republican Party. The woman that the Republican Party wants nothing to do with is the one brave enough to say what should be publicly said. For the sake of a lost Republican Party, and the viability of its future.

Once upon a time, Rep. Cheney faced the same decision that these silent Republicans face: Do I risk my political career by condeming the egregious behavior of the man who wants to become the next POTUS the sitting President of the United States, or do I keep quiet to save my political career? I wonder how many more opportunities to do the right thing with regard to Trump these cowards will have. How many more opportunities to publicly stand on the espoused values and principles of the Party and condemn that which runs against its very fiber? I guess if you’re too afraid to condemn Trump for something as breathtakingly awful as fomenting an insurrection and attempting to overthrow a legitimate election outcome, why on earth would you risk everything because of a vile little dinner party…

P.S. Today Mike Pence called on Trump to apologize. He said that he doesn’t believe that the former president is a racist, bigot, or anti-Semite.

P.P.S. Mitt Romney doesn’t hold back:

“There is no bottom to the degree to which he’s willing to degrade himself, and the country for that matter. Having dinner with those people was disgusting,” Romney said, according to NBC News, noting that he “voted to remove (Trump) from office twice” and saying “anybody else” would be a better party leader.

“I don’t think he should be president of the United States. I don’t think he should be the nominee of our party in 2024,” he said. “And I certainly don’t want him hanging over our party like a gargoyle.”

–Dana

94 Responses to “About *That* Dinner…”

  1. Late to the party, I know…

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. What I have a problem with here is the apparent shock on the part of so many. Followed by the “If only Trump knew” kind of defense.

    This IS Donald Trump. If you can’t see the pattern yet, you aren’t looking very hard.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  3. I have said in the past that politicians pick a party and then pretty much either work within that system of “us”, or go find honest employment. It’s easy for me to sit at a computer and suggest they follow Cheney’s path, but it’s not as easy to walk it yourself.

    However, there is no way forward for an anti-Semitic White Power party. None. Dead in the water. So, that should make it much easier for people to come out and say that Trump cannot have anything further to do with the Party or they’ll form a new one.

    I hope that we are close to the preference cascade on Donald Trump, because if we have the Communists versus the Nazis as our choices, one of them might win.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  4. I’ll take “Things which are not Surprising” for $200, Alex.

    Nic (896fdf)

  5. Cheney managed to pivot from neocon icon joined at hip to her dad advocating endless war, supporting the “any means necessary” approach to interrogation, to stalwart of democratic principle.
    I’d voter for Cheney over Biden or Newsom or Harris or? but lets not get crazy and elevate her further into something she is not because she glommed onto a role and is playing it to the hilt

    steveg (a96094)

  6. MEMO to fired, lone Wyoming House rep, Daughter Darth:

    2020 Census: Wyoming 5th Whitest State in Nation
    https://cowboystatedaily.com/2021/08/13/2020-census-wyoming-5th-whitest-state-in-nation/

    Cities with the Highest Percentage of Whites in Wyoming
    http://zipatlas.com/us/wy/city-comparison/percentage-white-population.htm

    Sing it, Ponty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n_4t7KcJsQ

    “Remember, mediocrity, is not a mortal sin.” – J. Pierpont Finch [Robert Morse] ‘How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying”, 1967

    DCSCA (40d6c7)

  7. My impression of Trump is that he’s a let’s-see-where-this-goes kinda guy. That’s he’s amused by people who stir things up and feed the drama. It’s the only way to rationalize the bizarre Pillow Guy’s intimate access. Heck, Rudy’s prime job seemed to be ratcheting up the crazy with Trump never walking away or issuing a rebuke.

    Who knows what the plan was here and where things will be spun. Isn’t it politics 101 to avoid nazi wanna-be’s and race-baiters? This can’t be dropped on some sleep-walking lowly aid. This duo ain’t getting in without Trump’s tacit approval. He clearly likes the fringe because they’ll do anything to stay relevant. Maybe this spun a little bit away from him but my view is that Trump always intended to burn the GOP from the inside. It’s just shocking to see how long it is taking for some to recognize it….

    AJ_Liberty (6a18fd)

  8. I condemn Trump and his dinner guests in the strongest terms for making us listen to Cheney babble again. Low hanging fruit is no match for nevertrump. Let’s see if they can handle wet paper bag next.

    JF (285057)

  9. AJ,

    Trump is always interested in spending time with anyone he thinks might benefit the Trump Brand. Money and power interest him, no more and no less.

    Dana (1225fc)

  10. “Cheney managed to pivot from neocon icon joined at hip to her dad advocating endless war, supporting the “any means necessary” approach to interrogation, to stalwart of democratic principle.”

    Where is evidence of any of this?

    AJ_Liberty (6a18fd)

  11. I’ve added a P.S. to the post:

    S. Today Mike Pence called on Trump to apologize. He said that he doesn’t believe that the former president is a racist, bigot, or anti-Semite.

    Dana (1225fc)

  12. Not that long ago, it was Trump’s racist “Coco Chow”.
    This Mar-A-Lago sh!tshow needs to end.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  13. For those who subscribe, I suggest Mr. Catoggio, who nails it.

    On some days the embarrassment is marginal, on others it’s significant, but it’s always, always there. Open up your laptop at any given moment and you might be confronted by news of the crazy pillow guy running for chairman of the RNC or the Republican nominee for Senate in Georgia sounding incoherent. Or any number of 2020 election cranks handily winning statewide Republican primaries.

    Or the frontrunner for the 2024 Republican nomination hosting prominent antisemites for dinner at his home.

    Conservatives who feel alienated from the broader American right take all of this in, day after day, and wonder of their former comrades: Aren’t you embarrassed?

    Or, why aren’t you more embarrassed?

    I could almost (not quite, but almost) understand swallowing the embarrassment if the GOP had a robust conservative policy agenda it hoped to enact after gaining power. It doesn’t. There’s a reason the first thing out of the mouths of House Republicans after they clinched a House majority was “something something Hunter Biden.”

    “Conservatism plus endless embarrassment” might be worth voting for. Why is it still worth voting for once the “conservative” part has been removed?

    And if the answer is that it beats government by Democrats, I would gently respond that conservatives believe in incentives, supposedly. Among other things, incentives are why the private sector is more responsive to the public’s desires than the public sector is. Readers may decide for themselves what sort of incentive is created for Republican officials when “embarrassment minus conservatism” is still enough to earn a vote on grounds of pure partisanship.

    Some Republicans believe the right’s problems are fundamentally a “Trump problem.” Solve that problem in the next presidential primary and you’re on your way to rebuilding a respectable coalition.

    Maybe. Excising Trump would improve things, I agree. President DeSantis won’t be having Kanye and Nick over for dinner.

    But he won’t be keen to antagonize them, either.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  14. However, there is no way forward for an anti-Semitic White Power party. None. Dead in the water. So, that should make it much easier for people to come out and say that Trump cannot have anything further to do with the Party or they’ll form a new one.

    You’re a whole lot more optimistic about Republican voters than I am. I don’t see any indication that MAGA supporters and/or Republicans in general are willing to excise Trump, or extricate themselves from his hold. Mixing it up with racists and anti-Semites is hardly the last straw to the dedicated.

    Dana (1225fc)

  15. Trump wants all the support he can get and he thinks people hate the lying — media. (words left out so not to offend) Trump thinks those who care wouldn’t vote for him anyway and those who are going to vote for him don’t care. He is probably right. Trump won in 2016 by his voters saying the enemy of my enemy (the lying msm) is my friend. Conservatives like william f. buckley had a problem birchers and anti semite bigots. Opportunists like reagan and nixon did not. As for trump he is a populist dixiecrat not a conservative.

    asset (1a2c21)

  16. @14. It’s a safe bet all the GOP Wyoming voters aren’t pure as the driven snow either, and thus, nested in wacky wilds of the Wyoming hinterlands, likely voted for Daughter Darth in earlier times w/o the overt outing and publicity courting of a Trump. All the parties have pockets of fringe nut bags; w/Trump, who is void of any loyalty to an anchoring ideology, it’s just an issue of making noise and getting some spotlight attention. It worked on this thread. With media savvy, NYer Trump, there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Americans should know that by now. It still amazing me how much chatter he has gotten two years out of office– and actually more before he declared again. He may burn out his welcome under the populist flag but populism remains deeply rooted and strong in the U.S. Lest you forget the fate of Low Energy Jeb, Lyin’ Ted and Lil’ Marco… the fur has yet to really fly over DeSantis. And it will if he opts to challenge Trump. Then the make-up and VP slot comes. Alas, my poor Nikki will be boxed out. and, at least for me, she has more depth and potential than an opportunity like DeSantis.

    DCSCA (7467b2)

  17. @15. Yep. Though actually, by popular vote count, he lost. Yet in 2020, garnered more votes than in 2016. So his policies were not so much rejected as was his persona. Which says more about the depth of character of the electorate than the candidate himself.

    DCSCA (7467b2)

  18. @6: So, your argument is to be the anti-Semite White Power Party?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  19. Low hanging fruit is no match for nevertrump

    It’s low-hanging fruit that is never seen by the cultists, because they are told not to look.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  20. Today Mike Pence called on Trump to apologize. He said that he doesn’t believe that the former president is a racist, bigot, or anti-Semite.

    This does not reflect well on Mike Pence’s understanding of those terms.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  21. I think that Trump should be referred to the Committee For Aesthetic Deletions.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  22. @14

    Dana, you may be right. Hence my last sentence in #3.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  23. @17 His persona was not rejected in 2020. Trump did not lose the election by popular vote but by 44,000 votes in three states az. 10,000 ga. 13,000 wi. 20,000. In 2016 trump won wi by 22,000 what was the difference four years later? Democrats kept green party off ballot so 36,000 votes that voted green in 2016 couldn’t do it again. Same az. Democrats lost house seats in 2020 so similar to what republicans have now. Never trumper tail cannot wag the dog! Nixon’s southern strategy and reagan going down to philadelphia mississippi where the 3 civil rights workers were murdered after he got the nomination in1980 welcoming ignorant southern white trash dixiecrats into the republican party. Chickens have come home to roost as Malcolm X said. The populists now control the republican party despite the donor class money and corporate conservative media. Only lying cancun turd cruz until the voters couldn’t be fooled any longer about his corporate ties was able to challenge trump in 2016

    asset (1a2c21)

  24. @22 Biden is a crook and corporate stooge and the democrat party establishment shills for the donor class yet you think that makes them communists. Sanders and AOC are left but not communists they have no power in the democrat party establishment. If you know neither your enemy or yourself you will lose. Sun Tzu. To win you must know your enemy better than he does as I do. Conservatives are as smart as I am probably smarter though liberals think they are stupid. My edge is that they are evil and self destructive like nixon, reagan and trump. The bush’es like biden were products of the system who failed upward.

    asset (1a2c21)

  25. “why aren’t you more embarrassed?”

    They’re more embarrassed by the people who keep bringing it up. The exercise here is to never truly grapple with Trump and demand better, but to always critique the nevertrump reaction. It’s too ostentatious; too obsessed; too hypocritical; too disproportionate; too misguided.

    I’m with Allah-Nick. I can almost understand it if there was some big payoff. What is the GOP agenda? Why does it seem that when confronted with that challenge, the base quickly drift offs into Hunter Biden, Fauci conspiracies, and stolen election memes, rather than bread and butter issues that have hope of exnergizing a majority.

    It would be one thing if the GOP was winning elections, but against expectations, they’re 0-6 since 2016. The GOP is mumbling about grievances AND losing to boot, but you see, the problem is nevertrump. TaaDaaa! How’s that for a chronic misdiagnosis. They crow about chasing Cheney out of the party, but can’t bring Kari Lake over the finish line. They only seem to know how to market to themselves….and then are shocked when they lose. But sure, is must be nevertrump. I guess there is just hidden genius in wooing the anti-semites and racists out there. Maybe next election…..

    AJ_Liberty (6a18fd)

  26. This is a job for Dr. Pimple Popper.

    nk (6c45b4)

  27. I’m so old I remember when Cheney sent money to a white supremacist racist to primary Thomas Massie because Massie dared to ask that Congress pass the Covid inflation creation bill through proper procedure.

    BuDuh (eaef9b)

  28. “embarrassment minus conservatism” Is giving me bush/cheney flashbacks

    JF (285057)

  29. Is that the Thomas Massie who Trump said should be removed from the Republican Party?“Throw Massie out of Republican Party!”

    Trump tweeted on Friday.

    Massie unsuccessfully sought to have a member-by-member vote in the House on the coronavirus bill, but officials used House rules to deny his request, allowing it to pass with a simple voice vote.

    “I came to here to make sure our republic doesn’t die by unanimous consent in an empty chamber, and I request a recorded vote,” Massie said on the House floor before his proposal was rejected.

    nk (76d15d)

  30. “why aren’t you more embarrassed?”

    Because I don’t worship Trump, nor do I stake my wellbeing to whatever a politician does.

    Because I treat politicians like how I treat my rental cars – use them to get to point A to point B and then discard them without ever thinking of them again.

    Because I can keep my eyes on the ball, which is to keep Democrats out of power by advocating for candidates that can WIN. Which, includes advocating for someone like DeSantis or anyone else over Trump.

    Because I refuse to accept the premise that I must “own” any failing of a politician that I once voted for and I condemn anyone else trying to foist this ownership on me. You don’t want to play that game.

    whembly (d116f3)

  31. BuDuh (eaef9b) — 11/29/2022 @ 5:46 am

    The part that you left out was that Cheney rescinded her support of McMurty and asked for her donation back after his tweets were made known.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  32. From The Economist

    “History isn’t kind to the man who holds Mussolini’s jacket,” Senator Ted Cruz of Texas told an associate in 2016, explaining why he was not endorsing Mr Trump, according to the new book “Confidence Man”, by Maggie Haberman. Yet Mr Cruz eventually bent the knee—even though Mr Trump had attacked his wife, Heidi, so cruelly that even a Republican not named Cruz also said he could not back him. That Republican, Rudy Giuliani, would go on to make a bonfire of his reputation in service to Mr Trump.

    How could a man who lies so transparently and exhibits such incompetence be so successful? Respectable people have been asking versions of that question since Mr Trump was in real estate, and as he moved on to entertainment and politics, or to all three at once. The answer says as much about them, or about all of us, as it does about him.

    Ms Haberman, of the New York Times and cnn, stands out among journalists who have followed Mr Trump, and not only because she has covered him since he was a developer in New York and she was at the New York Post, a tabloid. Ms Haberman has always taken Mr Trump seriously, as someone, she writes here, who was “shrewd and smarter than his critics gave him credit for, possessed of a survival instinct that was likely unmatched in American political history”.

    Ms Haberman makes a particular contribution with this book by describing how the annealing interplay of politics and commerce in the New York of the 1970s and 1980s equipped Mr Trump with the low expectations and cynical convictions that would carry him so far: that racial politics is a zero-sum contest among tribes; that allies as well as enemies must be dominated; that everything in life can be treated as a transaction; that rapidly topping one lie or controversy with the next will tie the media in knots; that celebrity confers power; that not only politicians but even prosecutors are malleable.

    Yet these same convictions would also carry Mr Trump only so far. They doomed his presidency.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  33. Trump put policies in place that benefited Israel and made the world safer for Jewish people. But can’t let the facts get in the way of the narrative.

    Now do Obama and Farakkhan or Obama and Sharpton or Obama and Iran or Biden and China and on and on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  34. “Because I refuse to accept the premise that I must “own” any failing of a politician that I once voted for and I condemn anyone else trying to foist this ownership on me.”

    Too many Republicans sat on their hands during Trump’s 2nd impeachment and afterwards. Popular opinion should have, at minimum, have led to the GOP cleaning out its own house (impeachment or not….the party should have censured Trump and made him persona non grata). Instead, we saw spin-meisters turn the totality of Trump’s mischief into one more pathetic grievance and what-about-ism. The base simply can’t turn off the Trump show…they continue to send him money and go to his rallies….and want a comeback. It’s like a herd of crack addicts needing their fix.

    What now gives us hope that the base will move on in the primaries? Polling right now is…way early…but not encouraging. There is little urgency or even rhetoric compelling change. Sure, Romney and Cheney rumble, but the common retort is they are others…RINO’s….providing aid and comfort to the Democrats. Benedict Arnolds. Pence is poorly positioned to critique Trump’s character and others, like Haley, can’t find enough reception to speak definitively.

    Some group owns this. Too much of the party is ready to support Trump…and will assuredly back him against any Democrat in the general. Who does Trump have to dine with to lose base support?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  35. BuDuh (eaef9b) — 11/29/2022 @ 5:46 am

    The part that you left out was that Cheney rescinded her support of McMurty and asked for her donation back after his tweets were made known.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/29/2022 @ 7:09 am

    Yawn.

    If she didn’t fire the advisor who put her in that position she doesn’t even rate a John Thune weak tea level of credibility.

    Do you at least have a link to her strong condemnation and total rebuking of McMurty? I’ll bet it was pretty harsh.

    BuDuh (b664af)

  36. Trump had dinner with a group (3 that we know of) of anti-semites and white supremecists. This is entirely within his character. There’s no evidence that anyone in MAGA cares about this beyond the extent it would impact their ability to win general elections.

    Basically, MAGA is fine with Fuentes, Milo, Ye, and the horrible things their horrible ideals. The stuff they advocate is within the mainstream of current GOP thought.

    Time123 (5d1082)

  37. https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/11/29/blood-your-hands-christian-group-vandalized-splc-suggests-hate-inspired-club-q-shooting/

    Christian group attacked and vandalized by radical leftists. Par for the course to go with all the churches and pro-life clinics that have been attacked this year without punishment.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  38. Jewish Trump officials distance themselves after his dinner with white supremacist
    …….
    Elan Carr, former special envoy to combat and monitor antisemitism, said in a tweet Monday that “no responsible American, and certainly no former president should be cavorting” with people like Fuentes and West.

    He echoed a similar call by former U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman, who urged his former boss “to throw those bums out, disavow them and relegate them to the dustbin of history.”

    Friedman told the Forward on Monday that Trump called him right after he published the tweet on Friday, which he described as a matter of “conscience.” But Friedman declined to say whether he conveyed the same message in the phone call and what was Trump’s response. “The communication is between him and me,” Friedman said.
    ……..
    “To placate antisemitism is to promote antisemitism,” Carr said about Trump’s silence.

    Elliott Abrams, a veteran Republican foreign-policy official who served two years as the Trump administration’s special representative on Iran and Venezuela, said in a statement that Trump condemning antisemitism would be insufficient. “He has done that before, but it didn’t stop him from having dinner with one of the most despicable antisemites in America,” Abrams said.
    ……..
    According to a recent book by veteran reporter Maggie Haberman, following the controversy that ensued after Trump’s “both sides” response to the deadly 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Ronald Lauder, president of the World Jewish Congress and a longtime friend and adviser to the president, urged him “to take a different tone” in speaking about the events. “Don’t go there,” Trump replied angrily.

    In a CNN op-ed published Monday evening, (Jason Greenblatt, a longtime Trump aide who served as Mideast peace envoy) said the meeting “should not have happened.” and expressed hope that Trump would condemn Fuentes, West “and their ilk for what they are — haters of Jews and haters of the foundations of the USA.”

    On Sunday, the Republican Jewish Coalition called on “all political leaders to reject their messages of hate and refuse to meet with” West and Fuentes. The Zionist Organization of America, a right-wing group that honored Trump earlier this month, condemned him for “dining with Jew-haters” and helping “legitimize and mainstream antisemitism.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  39. I’ve updated the post with Mitt Romney’s comments about the dinner.

    Dana (1225fc)

  40. I’m so old I remember when Cheney sent money to a white supremacist racist to primary Thomas Massie because Massie dared to ask that Congress pass the Covid inflation creation bill through proper procedure.

    I’m so old I remember when Daddy Darth crowed the economy was booming because folks were shopping like mad at 99 cent stores. 😉

    DCSCA (0365c7)

  41. @34

    Who does Trump have to dine with to lose base support?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/29/2022 @ 8:17 am

    I don’t care.

    Why?

    Because this is about 2 things:
    1) Trump’s own narcistic need for self-validation and ego, not some devious plans to give racist anti-semite any credibility.

    2) This is about giving Democrats cover for ongoing policy failures.

    That’s it. There’s nothing magical there.

    If there’s any sincere desire to “move on” from Trump, then you’d better be hoop’n & hollering for viable candidates to run in the primary against Trump. If you’re truly #NeverTrump, you’d better be praying for a DeSantis, Cruz or Youngkin to run for President, and that the other “borderline” candidates bows out early enough so that we don’t see a repeat of the fractured primary we saw in ’16 that allowed Trump to win. Any of those candidates would be lightyears ahead of whomever Dems deign to put up.

    whembly (4716ab)

  42. TrumpWorld reactions:

    Here:

    …..I have to wonder if Kanye West has been put up to this by DeSantis stooge Candace Owens. Trump’s love of celebrity is one of his biggest weaknesses, one that Kanye exploited. ……DeSantis quietly smiles……..Kanye may be a little odd, but he’s not stupid. He wants to be president (which isn’t going to happen) and part of his path is to remove Trump as an obstacle. An embarrassing dinner with a white supremacist hurts Trump, helps Kanye. I certainly hope Trump doesn’t allow any sort of repeat. Stay away from Kanye…….Why is this guy a white supremest. Did he not kneel at a ballgame? Leading Stop the Steal is as much as anyone did to try to save the Constitution. This is the leftist media crap the Uniparty (R) DC hacks are going to run with? …….Yeah seems like a setup. Any white against the establishment is labeled a supremacist. The establishment is so evil…….If Trump is not openly insulting Ron DeSantis and other right wing conservatives, then he’s having dinner with morons and antisemites. ……You don’t have to look far to find videos of Fuentes mocking the Holocaust and proclaiming his admiration for Mussolini. We don’t need “friends” like that. …….Nothing like getting a white nationalist together with a black guy. Only Trump could do this. …….The Holocaust has become to Jews what slavery is to black people – a past tragedy being used today to advance certain agendas…….In American politics you’re only allowed to hate Christians and Whites. If you offend any other group you need to go on television and beg for forgiveness. ……Remember when Trump said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any voters? It’s true around this website as well. He could do anything and the trump cult members would still lick his boots. It’s sad more than anything else. But when he loses in 2024 that’ll be the end of him. ……DeSantis is letting Trump hang himself, wi/out saying anything. ……I had hoped his speech announcing his candidacy was a new direction for Trump. It was in many ways Reaganesque. But no, he still approaces this like he’s still calling in to Imus or Stern. …..

    And Here:

    ……Trump forgot that you’re only allowed to hate Christians and White people. …..Milo, Ye and Fuentes IMO are all controlled trolls having been or being sent our way to discredit and divide us. ……You got to wonder who put Kanye up to this? ……The very stable genius got played? …….Trump really shouldn’t distance himself from this at all. Eating with someone doesn’t mean you support every word he’s ever uttered. It’s ridiculous really. He should actually run on this. ……..The media want to force Trump to come out and apologize for this just as a form of ritualized humiliation. He shouldn’t even bother responding anyways, no one besides talking heads on tv care if he had talk with Kanye. …….Why does he have to take responsibility for it? It was a silly stunt pulled by West. Trump isn’t a racist and this isn’t proof that he is. Only woketards and Never Trumpers give a damn and they will never support Trump anyway. You apparently want Trump to play the the rules of the woke crowd, grovel and apologize profusely when there is nothing to apologize for. ……..At what point does president Trump take responsibility for this? Responsibility for what?? Pissing off the left because he had dinner with 3 people that are enemies of the left? This is the ONLY reason that this is a story. Trump has reached out and IS appealing to segments of the population nobody thought possible. Blacks, homosexuals. This is why the left is upset about this. White supremacists? Who the f cares who the left labels white supremacist?? ……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  43. BuDuh (b664af) — 11/29/2022 @ 8:29 am

    The link noted that she rescinded her support and asked for her money back, as was appropriate, and I noted that you left that part out. This isn’t hard, BuDuh.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  44. Biden is a crook and corporate stooge and the democrat party establishment shills for the donor class yet you think that makes them communists

    In my book, the following attributes are sufficient: No respect for property and a preference for a command economy. SOme are more that way than others, but Biden (or his puppeteer(s)) has shown both those traits

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  45. How could a man who lies so transparently and exhibits such incompetence be so successful?

    Because there was a sizable segment of the population that had been ignored for three decades and was at the end of its rope — and was looking at yet another presidential campaign that would ignore them again. And Trump entered the race as their champion. They would have accepted anyone at that point. And Trump was at least credible.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  46. So you don’t have a link to Liz condemning McMurty. Only her asking for her poorly spent money back.

    Apparently this is hard for you, Paul.

    The upshot is that when Liz held hands with Trump while trying to ram through the Covid bankrupt the country bill, she decided she needed to spit fire at the constitutionalist that went against both her and Trump. Her weapon of choice was a white nationalist racist.

    Her begging for her money back is no different that Trump’s statements after this dinner. But you think it is. So there is nothing more for me to say.

    Take care.

    BuDuh (b664af)

  47. If the Democrats had a secret plan to become the sole political party, I cannot think of a better plan that to send Trump to the Republicans.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  48. I hope USA kicks Iran’s ass in the game starting now.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  49. Kevin – I think it is a matter of record that Trump’s friend, Bill Clinton, encouraged him to run for president.

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  50. If the Democrats had a secret plan to become the sole political party, I cannot think of a better plan that to send Trump to the Republicans.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 11/29/2022 @ 10:54 am

    Kevin – I think it is a matter of record that Trump’s friend, Bill Clinton, encouraged him to run for president.

    Jim Miller (f29931) — 11/29/2022 @ 10:59 am

    Time machine:
    https://mediaproxy.snopes.com/width/1200/https://media.snopes.com/2016/02/Screenshot-2016-02-16-at-1.02.17-PM.png

    BuDuh (b664af)

  51. I hope USA kicks Iran’s ass in the game starting now.

    It’s certain they’ll both get their balls kicked. 😉

    DCSCA (a7cfdc)

  52. I couldn’t care less.

    felipe (484255)

  53. My comment is on the topic of Trump’s dinner guests.

    felipe (484255)

  54. Here’s the Fox News take on the story:

    But one chapter appears to bolster past reports that Clinton’s former president husband actually nudged Trump toward running in the first place.

    “Less than a year before the campaign started, Bill and Trump golfed together at Trump National. Bill casually encouraged Trump to run, thinking his candidacy would roil the Republican field,” [Amy] Chozick wrote.

    Trump has denied the story which, considering his record, makes it almost certainly true.

    (I assume everyone knows that the Clintons were guests at Trump’s third wedding.)

    Jim Miller (f29931)

  55. Ever late to the scene, perpetually obtuse and forever French at heart, Pierre Delecto dines w/a “gargoyle” and welcomed his endorsement…

    In an abrupt about-face, Romney emerges from dinner with Trump full of frog legs and high praise. It is almost as if Romney had not been one of Trump’s leading detractors, calling him a ‘con man,’ a ‘fake’ and a ‘phony…’

    ‘“I had a wonderful evening with President-elect Trump,” the former Massachusetts governor declared to the press after a final course of chocolate cake. “We had another discussion about affairs throughout the world, and these discussions I’ve had with him have been enlightening, and interesting and engaging.”

    https://nationalpost.com/news/world/in-an-abrupt-about-face-romney-emerges-from-dinner-with-trump-full-of-frog-legs-and-high-praise

    2012: Trump endorses Romney

    Romney responded [to the Trump endorsement] by praising Trump for “an extraordinary ability to understand how our economy works and to create jobs” and for being “one of the few who has stood up to say China is cheating” in international trade… Romney said… after thanking Trump for the endorsement, “I spent my life in the private sector, not quite as successful as this guy but successful nonetheless.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/02/politics/campaign-wrap/index.html

    Who knew Captain Renault was a Mormon, too?!:

    “I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy.” – Captain Renault [Claude Rains] ‘Casablanca’ 1942

    DCSCA (a7cfdc)

  56. The inside story of Trump’s explosive dinner with Ye and Nick Fuentes
    ………
    “We saw everybody in the dining room get up and start applauding, and then the president entered,” Fuentes told NBC News. “He greeted us, and he invited Ye into dinner and Ye said that he wanted to bring us with him to the table. So we walked in and Ye took some pictures with some of the guests in the dining room and then we sat down at the table.”

    Trump made sure they sat at his specially reserved table on the patio, for all to see, according to Fuentes.

    But the dinner wasn’t the happy photo-op the president had planned.

    Ye criticized Trump for not doing enough to help pay the legal bills of those arrested in the Jan. 6 Capitol riots; and he also told Trump he might run for president against him and said Trump should instead be his running mate — all of which angered the former president, who attacked Ye’s ex-wife, Kim Kardashian, according to two dinner participants and Ye, who blasted out a “Mar-a-Lago debrief” video to his 32.2 million Twitter followers the next day.

    “Trump is really impressed with Nick Fuentes,” Ye said in the video.

    Fuentes said that he praised Trump as “my hero” and criticized Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for his potential GOP primary challenge to Trump, but he also told him to his face at the dinner that the one-time 2016 insurgent was in danger of becoming a scripted establishment bore who could lose in 2024.
    ……….
    One longtime Trump adviser, who didn’t want to go on the record criticizing his preferred candidate, said it was clear that Fuentes’ presence was part of a headline-grabbing setup.

    “The master troll got trolled,” the adviser said. “Kanye punked Trump.”
    ……..
    (Milo) Yiannopoulos, a former Breitbart editor who was banned from Twitter in 2016 for inciting a racist campaign against the comedian Leslie Jones, told NBC News that he was “the architect” of the plan to have Fuentes travel with Ye in the hopes of slipping him into the dinner with Trump. The intent, according to Yiannopoulos, was for Fuentes to give Trump an unvarnished view of how a portion of his base views his candidacy.
    …….
    “I wanted to show Trump the kind of talent that he’s missing out on by allowing his terrible handlers to dictate who he can and can’t hang out with,” Yiannopoulos told NBC News.

    “I also wanted to send a message to Trump that he has systematically repeatedly neglected, ignored, abused the people who love him the most, the people who put him in office, and that kind of behavior comes back to bite you in the end,” he added.

    And, Yiannopoulos said, he arranged the dinner “just to make Trump’s life miserable” because news of the dinner would leak and Trump would mishandle it.

    Fuentes echoed the sentiment: “I hate to say it but the chickens are coming home to roost. You know, this is the frustration with his base and with his true loyalists.”
    ………
    Trump fumed afterward that Ye had betrayed him by ambushing him. “He tried to f— me. He’s crazy. He can’t beat me,” Trump said, according to one confidant, who then relayed the conversation to NBC News on the condition of anonymity to discuss private conversations.

    “Trump was totally blindsided,” the source said of Fuentes’ presence. “It was a setup.”
    ………
    ……… So he went ahead with the dinner alone, telling confidants that he thought Ye needed his counsel and, one confidant told NBC that Trump acknowledged he wanted the rapper to be seen because “it would be fun for the members” of Mar-a-Lago.

    Trump issued three successive statements in as many days on his Truth Social media platform admitting Fuentes was there while disavowing knowledge of his identity prior to and during the dinner.

    But none of his statements disavowed the hate speech associated with Fuentes, prompting more criticism that the former president is reluctant to distance himself too much from racists because they’re part of his political base of support.
    ………
    U.S. Secret Service distanced itself from the incident and said in a statement Monday that, as “a private club,” Mar-a-Lago’s security is in charge of “who may have been allowed access to their facilities”.
    ………

    Trump will never apologize for this (or anything), as he views taking responsibility for a mistake as weakness.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  57. Fuentes / Ye/ Milo’s views and goals are mainstream GOP now, that’s just who the party is.

    Time123 (5d1082)

  58. @37 you forgot the abortion providers and others gunned down by anti-abortion zealots and all the abortion clinics bombed and vandalized. What goes around comes around.

    asset (d2fa6e)

  59. @44 where does biden or the democrat establishment advocate government taking over the means of production as socialists let alone communists want. Biden is now wanting congress to for the workers to accept the rail companies offer! Inanimate objects are things human rights deserve respect. Biden and the donor class have more respect for property then they deserve. Capitalists are price fixing monopolists and the democrat party has to keep bailing them out to keep the left from putting them in re-education camps or worse! Biden and the democrat party’s job is to keep the left from getting into power for the corporate state.

    asset (d2fa6e)

  60. ..I have to wonder if Kanye West has been put up to this by DeSantis stooge Candace Owens. Trump’s love of celebrity is one of his biggest weaknesses, one that Kanye exploited. ……DeSantis quietly smiles……..

    Who’s to say a recent billionaire Chicago emigre to South Florida and noted DeSantis stan – Ken Griffin – isn’t the true mastermind. He would certainly have connections to pre-crazy son of the South Side Kanye West and through back channels to western Cook County based Fuentes.

    urbanleftbehind (fee951)

  61. @57

    Fuentes / Ye/ Milo’s views and goals are mainstream GOP now, that’s just who the party is.

    Time123 (5d1082) — 11/29/2022 @ 12:12 pm

    How so? Care to elaborate?

    What are their views and goals, and how does it align with “mainstream GOP”?

    whembly (d116f3)

  62. Whembly, I need to walk back my statement a little. Their views are acceptable within mainstream GOP. Not that they’re a major plank.

    As for how so; look at the complete lack of reaction for the GOP. The white nationalist / anti-Semitic crap is fine. It’s not an issue. No one within the GOP cares.

    Time123 (5d1082)

  63. Apparently this is hard for you, Paul.

    Your wriggling half-story is noted, BuDuh.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  64. @63 he also move the goal posts on you.

    Time123 (e7aa03)

  65. USA had a good day in Qatar today. I-ran, not so much.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  66. US defeats Iran 1-0 to head into the knockout round.

    Rip Murdock (0be58f)

  67. Apparently this is hard for you, Paul.

    Of course he did, Time, because his original statement was “I’m so old I remember when Cheney sent money to a white supremacist racist to primary Thomas Massie…”
    Not very honest.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  68. Stewart Rhodes and other Oath Keepers convicted of seditious conspiracy and other charges.

    Rip Murdock (0be58f)

  69. Oops, that was a reply to Time’s “@63 he also move the goal posts on you.”

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  70. They only come out to defend Trump.

    nk (01ca03)

  71. US OKs $1B arms sale to Qatar during key World Cup match

    The Biden administration on Tuesday approved a $1 billion arms sale to Qatar in a transaction unveiled during halftime of the key World Cup 2022 match in Doha between Iran and the United States.

    The State Department announced it had signed off on Qatar’s purchase of 10 defensive drone systems, 200 interceptors and related equipment just as the second half of the US-Iran game began. Qatar, along with other Gulf Arab states, faces threats from Iranian-backed proxies in the region.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  72. BuDuh (b664af) — 11/29/2022 @ 11:07 am

    Imagine my surprise when I asked a black guy from Alabama about George Wallace, and he said, “Sure he was a racist but the state always had a good job for a black man.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  73. Trump has denied the story which, considering his record, makes it almost certainly true.

    It’s kind of ironic that Clinton is the truth-teller here.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  74. Fuentes / Ye/ Milo’s views and goals are mainstream GOP now, that’s just who the party is.

    Anything that lets you sleep at night after voting the straight socialist ticket.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  75. Their views are acceptable within mainstream GOP.

    Not even. Their views are acceptable within the MAGA wing, which still controls the party with a large, but diminishing, minority share. Then again, their views have always been acceptable within the MAGA wing.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  76. As for how so; look at the complete lack of reaction for the GOP. The white nationalist / anti-Semitic crap is fine. It’s not an issue. No one within the GOP cares.

    The lack of reporting by the MSM should not be confused with a lack of comment.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  77. US defeats Iran 1-0 to head into the knockout round.

    Just in case anyone had recorded it for later.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  78. Stewart Rhodes and other Oath Keepers convicted of seditious conspiracy and other charges.

    Now, will they flip on Mr Big? He could have issued a pardon. and they know it.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  79. https://hotair.com/david-strom/2022/11/29/dei-is-destroying-academia-n514255

    While many debate the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin, leftists have destroyed our formerly finest institutions of higher learning.

    NJRob (3467ca)

  80. Kevin, As far as I can tell MAGA is mainstream GOP now. Seems like you pretty much agreed with me in comment 75.

    Time123 (6d3db1)

  81. P.S. Today Mike Pence called on Trump to apologize. He said that he doesn’t believe that the former president is a racist, bigot, or anti-Semite.

    I don’t believe that Nick Fuentes is a racist, bigot, or anti-Semite.

    He’s a fraud.

    And a hypocrite, which in his case, is a very very good thing.

    What kind of a white supremacist supports a black man for president?

    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-kanye-west-ye-nick-fuentes-campaign-20221128-lo6r4u3qkngjbdpiigw2qroiwq-story.html

    Michelle Goldberg of the New York Times has an explanation:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/28/opinion/antisemitism-trump-nick-fuentes.html

    (The relationship with West is a bit of a coup for Fuentes, who, openly wishing for conflict between Jews and Black people, has been willing to sublimate his anti-Black racism in the service of his antisemitism.)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  82. Jimmy Kimmel said that Kanye West is like the Joker in the Lego Batman asking for all the supervillins to be freed fromthe Twilight Zonemovie

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  83. Of course he did, Time, because his original statement was “I’m so old I remember when Cheney sent money to a white supremacist racist to primary Thomas Massie…”
    Not very honest.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/29/2022 @ 3:10 pm

    It was completely honest. If it wasn’t honest, then why would Cheney ask for the money back from the white supremacist.

    She. Gave. McMurty. Campaign. Money.

    It is simple. Unless you believe asking for a refund equals a history erasing time machine.

    Time, please tell me where the goal posts were and where they moved to.

    BuDuh (b664af)

  84. 82 errata

    Should be:

    * Jimmy Kimmel said that Kanye West is like the Joker in the Lego Batman movie asking for all the supervillains to be freed from the Phantom Zone.

    Kanye West’s latest cause is for Alex Jones to be let back on Twitter)

    The only place Alex Jones told the truth is when he said on the Capitol grounds on Jan 6, 2021 that Donald Trump was going to be speaking at the Capitol (of coursde this to free hime=selfd=f of responsibility – he was careful to be videotaped speaking on a bullhorn with Ali Alexander standing next to him telling people not to go inside but to go that-a-way to hear Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump was supposed to be there and wanted to go and that is something that members of the Jan 6 committee have trouble fitting into their narrative.

    Sammy Finkelman (ce67a4)

  85. Credit where it’s due, Mitch McConnnell criticized white supremacy and said that Trump’s associated wiht Fuentes etc. would prevent him from being president. I think Mitch is out of touch with the GOP base on this, but I’m very glad to read his remarks.

    Time123 (b27463)

  86. Maybe Mitch can explain your goal post claim for you and you can then give him some extra credit.

    BuDuh (eaef9b)

  87. @62

    Whembly, I need to walk back my statement a little. Their views are acceptable within mainstream GOP. Not that they’re a major plank.

    As for how so; look at the complete lack of reaction for the GOP. The white nationalist / anti-Semitic crap is fine. It’s not an issue. No one within the GOP cares.

    Time123 (5d1082) — 11/29/2022 @ 2:50 pm

    The “walk back” still doesn’t make sense.

    WHAT exactly are “their views” that is “acceptable within mainstream GOP”???

    Please be specific.

    Frankly, again, I reject the premise where voters MUST respond to every bad acts a (former) politician may have done/said.

    It’s a ridiculous gamesmanship not unlike me telling you – “So Time, when did you stop beating your wife and kids?”.

    whembly (d116f3)

  88. The Kardashians got to keep the publicists in the divorce settlement is probably the most salient point of the whole kerfuffle.

    nk (763d5c)

  89. whembly (d116f3) — 11/30/2022 @ 5:58 am

    whembly, you’re trying to do deep sea fishing in a kiddie pool

    JF (f8765c)

  90. How much cow pee does it take to spoil the whole bucket of milk?

    nk (763d5c)

  91. Whembly, Fuentes, Milo, & Ye assert a number of conspiracy theories and white supremacy ideas; Great replacement theory, Holocaust denial, Inherent inferiority of non-whites etc. Fuentes was one of the organizers of the Unit the Right rally.

    I’m asserting that his ideals and actions are acceptable within mainstream GOP/MAGA. It’s just not a big deal to much of the right.

    Time123 (5d1082)

  92. The root cause of this is the opposition to – more than that – hatred and slanders of illegal innigrants, not a word of which is condemned or rebutted by Democrats,but the poisonous branches of which is always cut off. There is agreat premise in American thinking that whatever is legal is moral. It works the other way, too.

    Sammy Finkelman (c62a24)

  93. Kanye West is getting fed ideas by other people.

    There’s nothing original in it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  94. Kanye West is doubling down. He was on Alex Jones’ show (now a hard to find podcast) wearing a hood completely covering his head and praised a man who’s name need not be mentioned. He said he did good, too, like inventing the highway (That’s supposed to be the autobahn!!) and the microphone (not the microphone, the tape recorder!) He also included a few anti-semitic comments.

    He could have done better. He could have said we made it to the moon because of him. (not really true)

    Or that he made German more readable by changing the letter style from Gothic (as in the New York Times masthead) to more standard fonts in 1943.

    AND IT WOULD STILL BE MEANINGLESS

    THE LIAR (you can anagram it) can’t be credited with gas chambers – that was started in Nevada, although much smaller. I think that was proposed by the Schhwarze_Kapelle with the aim of sabotaging the killing by making it more complicated. Most of their efforts eventually failed and possibly sometimes made it worse, and even the book of their “good deeds” was turned over (because of torture) and read by the Nazis after the July plot but destroyed by them so it didn’t fall into the hands of the Allies.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)


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