Today’s The Day…Maybe? (UPDATE ADDED)
[guest post by Dana]
Well, today is Nov. 15, the day that Donald Trump said that he would be making a very big announcement:
At his final rally before the midterm elections, Trump says, “I am going to be making a very big announcement on Tuesday, Nov. 15 at Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida.”
Vote. Our democracy depends on it. pic.twitter.com/R9WJt4goXs
— The Republican Accountability Project (@AccountableGOP) November 8, 2022
Of course, his pre-announcement was made before the red-wave-that-wasn’t, so perhaps he will be readjusting his goals… Anyway, today is the day, and I’ve been wondering what sort of advantage he thinks an early announcement would bring him. The midterms were a big disappointment to Republicans, the holiday season is upon us, and America is in need of a long winter’s nap, devoid of politics – and certainly devoid of the crazy circus that is Trump. I think that this is a fair, if partial analysis of what could be prompting Trump’s early announcement:
…I get the sense that Trump is declaring out of impatience, boredom with non-presidential life, and a furious envy of the recent praise of Ron DeSantis’s big win. And maybe Trump thinks that if he announces, all the prosecutors investigating him and pursuing a case against him have to put everything on hold, lest their prosecutions appear too political. There’s absolutely no reason that Trump has to announce early. He doesn’t need to build up his name recognition. He doesn’t need a lot of preparation time, or to build up his fundraising network. He is the ultimate known quantity, and everybody in America already knows how they feel about him. A presidential campaign would almost be superfluous. Trump could announce about a month or two before the first caucus or primary and it would likely turn out the same.
You know that he is still seething about DeSantis’s stinging victory. So, if he announces early, it will be in large part a pre-emptive effort to capture the MAGA world and loyal Republicans before DeSantis announces his candidacy. It’s childlike that he seems to believe that once voters line up behind him they won’t be swayed by a DeSantis announcement. As if he believes that they won’t turn toward a more sane, Trump-light candidate who has demonstrated that he has the chops to be a successful leader.
So why else might he choose to essentially run against himself? Well, the sooner he announces, the sooner the grift can begin. Let those campaign donations flow. When Trump makes a decision, any decision, the question of how much money can potentially be made from the said decision is automatically factored in. And a presidential election would provide him with the ultimate fundraising opportunity. Note how, after the legal search of Mar-a-Lago, his fundraising numbers exploded. How much more after announcing a run for the presidency?
Clearly, the former president is not listening to his advisors, who cautioned him about making any early announcements. Nor does Trump seem concerned about post-midterm polling, which shows him trailing Desantis by double digits in one-on-one matchups in Iowa and New Hampshire, the first two states on the GOP nominating calendar.
It seems he also hasn’t spent time considering how he may have adversely impacted the midterms:
Trump loomed large in the minds of voters and dragged down his party’s candidates — nationally and in key swing states with Senate races — despite being out of power. In many cases that blunted the impact of Biden’s unpopularity, and widespread economic pain, helping Democrats defy political gravity and hold their own.
Nationally, 32% of voters in 2022 said their vote was “to oppose Joe Biden.” But 28% said their vote was “to oppose Donald Trump,” even though Trump was out of office. That suggests Trump’s continued dominance over the GOP made the 2022 election, in the minds of voters, almost as much about a defeated former president as it was about the current president and party in power.
“It was a Trump problem,” a Republican operative involved in the 2022 election told NBC News, speaking candidly about the de facto leader of the GOP on condition of anonymity to avoid retribution. “Independents didn’t vote for candidates they viewed as extreme and too closely linked with Donald J. Trump.”
Independent voters made up 31% of the electorate and they favored Democrats over Republicans by a margin of 49% to 47%, a stark break from the past four midterms in which they voted by double digits for the party out of power, according to exit polls.
Anyway, we’ll have to wait and see if Trump actually makes an announcement tonight. But as it stands, the question remains for the Republican Party: How do you solve a problem like Donald Trump? It’s taken a very long time for the Party to even slightly begin to acknowledge that he is indeed a problem and that they must move on from him. You’d think that after the midterm losses, it would become more difficult for any Republican lawmaker to remain silent about the problem of Trump. But then, we’ve already seen how those few Republican lawmakers with conservative bona fides were treated when they did point out the problem with Trump. And it wasn’t pretty.
UPDATE: It’s official:
Donald Trump, the twice-impeached former president who refused to concede defeat and inspired a failed attempt to overturn the 2020 election culminating in a deadly attack on the Capitol, officially declared on Tuesday night that he is running to retake the White House in 2024.
Heh. Brilliant paragraph.
Hello.Dana (1225fc) — 11/15/2022 @ 11:21 am
For Trump, announcing now (or in the next few weeks) makes sense because he’ll cut out some of the competition. Also, it’s better for him to start before he gets indicted than after.Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/15/2022 @ 11:41 am
And the narrative will change; …”anna one, anna two…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z35VlxK9gtEDCSCA (6e5b01) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:00 pm
I think Trump understands that his brand just took a big hit with the 2022 election results. He needs to generate buzz and news coverage. The question is whether this will just exhaust people further. He’s an inch deep in policy and is tedious with the election denial stuff. He can only market 2016 nostalgia and today’s latest grievance. It’s awful but it will titillate his most fervent acolytes.AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:07 pm
And Walker loses Georgia. Guess who gets blamed?
And the narrative shifts again.Appalled (03f53c) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:14 pm
It continues to jar me just how miserable and angry Republicans are. I talk to Republicans, read and listen to them online, etc., and what a depressing group of people. Their outlook on life is bleak, they have a long laundry list of complaints and see almost nothing positive in American life these days. It’s incredible to me that the gift of America and the freedoms that we have (including saying Merry Christmas!) are ignored. But what is actually depressing is that so many seem to believe that only Trump can make them happy.Dana (1225fc) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:20 pm
@5. At this point Georgia really doesn’t factor as much- unless the R’s have some major goodies to offer Manchin, who is in the catbird seat again- especially after Joey peed in his coal-flavored coffee one time too many– to flip to GOP. But McConnell’s ‘just say no’ attitude so far doesn’t seem to be a catalyst for it.DCSCA (6e5b01) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:21 pm
As if he believes that they won’t turn toward a more sane, Trump-light candidate who has demonstrated that he has the chops to be a successful leader.
LOL this will be the prevailing sentiment we’ll hear about DeSantis, until the day Trump is knocked out of the race
then, it’ll magically morph into to what a right wing nut job he isJF (622d20) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:24 pm
@6. Yeah, but the thing is, their life was ‘better’ when Trump was in office on many levels. It’s hard to shake that out of their minds. The objective really should be to remove Bidenesque policies, not battle over Trump. Even term limited to 4 years w/a DeSantis ‘apprentice’ on a road to 8 of his own is a preferable option to a Biden/Clinton or Biden/Harris redux. [No Nikki in thew mix; my heart is saddened.] And lest we forget, on November 20, he starts his 81st year on Earth. That’s just 5 days from now.DCSCA (6e5b01) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:28 pm
I agree that Georiga is not make or break for anything. Frankly, that’s a relief.
But when you talk of narrative, you have to consider the scheduled events that dictate the narrative flow. If Trump does his usual nonsense and inflames people, it is plausible the people who can vote for a Kemp won’t vote for a guy who owes his Senate candidacy to DJT. Sanders is quite capable of losing this election on his own lack of merit. Still, Trump will get tagged with any loss…
And we come back to Trump the loser.
If Sanders wins, I will eat these words with some good BBQ and Brunswick Stew. Trump will also get some credit, wether i like it or not.Appalled (03f53c) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:46 pm
I don’t even know if there’s any necessary morphing involved…Dana (1225fc) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:50 pm
I don’t even know if there’s any necessary morphing involved…
Dana (1225fc) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:50 pm
point proved beyond doubt
thanks!JF (0314de) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:53 pm
@12. A smart McConnell should be focusing on flipping Manchin. But Mich doesn’t have the juice – or perhaps just doesn’t trust him– to do it. Manchin is all but asking for a reason to do it– ‘give me something sweet and I’ll flip.’DCSCA (6e5b01) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:56 pm
Trump is paying Beat the Clock with the Jan 6 subpoena but for an indictment only the 90 days before an election count per DOJ policy. So it won’t effect anything that will hit before next October. Then there’s a window from June to the convention.Sammy Finkelman (9905c7) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:57 pm
Nancy Pelosi may be thinking of flipping Houe Republicans. Kevin McCarthy got 188-31 in Rep caucus today (219 probable members voting) , but he needs 218 in January on the floor.Sammy Finkelman (9905c7) — 11/15/2022 @ 12:59 pm
Nope. Manchin has no more reason to flip now than he did when Schumer and Biden dissed him. Matter of fact, he really has very little reason to flip. The Trumpers in the WV party would likely primary him.Appalled (03f53c) — 11/15/2022 @ 1:09 pm
OT: Another “Today… Maybe”—
Managers Give “Go” to Proceed Toward Launch, Countdown Progressing
Artemis I managers convened Monday afternoon to review the status of countdown operations as well as two open technical items, and gave a “go” to proceed toward launch Wednesday, Nov 16. The two-hour window for launch opens at 1:04 a.m. EST.
Engineers examined detailed analysis of caulk on a seam between an ogive on Orion’s launch abort system and the crew module adapter and potential risks if it were to detach during launch. The mission management team determined there is a low likelihood that if additional material tears off it would pose a critical risk to the flight.
Still issues w/hydrogen connections and lose caulk on the Orion escape system. And they’re ‘go’ w/launching a test flight tonight in darkness; literally a multi-billion dollar ‘shot in the dark’— managers increasingly akin to Peter Sellers’ Inspector Clouseau. Truly pray this bird doesn’t blow; but if an anomaly occurs and they have a ‘bad day’… won’t be all that surprised. This rocket is telling its builders, ‘I’m not fully ready to fly yet’– and the program management has the scent of shuttle era decision making all over it.DCSCA (6e5b01) — 11/15/2022 @ 1:22 pm
McConnell just blamed ‘candidate quality’ again and whipped out his August excuse. So you see, it’s the candidates fault, not his for failing to back his party’s team. Mitch’s ‘Paths of Glory’ –you go to war with the army you have. And when they fail and you fail to properly back them- it’s their fault for not ‘taking the Ant Hill’- eh, Mitch?DCSCA (6e5b01) — 11/15/2022 @ 1:33 pm
Call me skeptical, but Trump’s new look isn’t going to work for him.Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/15/2022 @ 1:53 pm
I don’t know why I called H. Walker “Sanders” in my comment up-thread. H. Walker is neither Socialist or old. Only similarity is that neither has spent much time in Georgia for the past 30 years.Appalled (e3b62d) — 11/15/2022 @ 2:06 pm
Appalled, Herschel ain’t that young, chronologically, and seven years older than Warnock.Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/15/2022 @ 2:10 pm
You may find it bias-confirming, but it proves nothing. There’s no conflict between DeSantis being a right wing nut job and also a saner-than-Trump, Trump-light candidate who has demonstrated successful leadership skills. I’d add “for certain values of successful,” since reasonable minds can differ on what constitutes a successful leader, though that concept may also fall outside your binary worldview.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/15/2022 @ 3:14 pm
I don’t consider DeSantis a right wing nut job. He’s just a tough conservative. I wish he had some of Reagan’s warmth, optimism, and charm, but few politicians have that.
I would vote for DeSantis over Biden, Harris, Newsom, Warren, Buttigieg, or AOC.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 3:33 pm
The BIGGEST announcement Trump could make is that he’s not running. Go ahead, Donnie, make some TERRIFIC news.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 3:35 pm
Not having been in love with Trump, I am not susceptible to DeSantis on the rebound, and I would caution those who are.nk (5c60ce) — 11/15/2022 @ 3:58 pm
norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 3:33 pm
Reasonable minds differing. I wouldn’t call him a right wing nut job either, but Trump-lite is till too Trumpy for me. I’d never vote for him. Nor would I vote for Harris, Newsom or AOC. Buttigieg I don’t know enough to say. Biden I’ll hold my nose and vote for again if his opponent is Trump, Trumpist or Trump-lite, though I’d hope either party would make that unnecessary by nominating someone better.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/15/2022 @ 4:02 pm
lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/15/2022 @ 4:02 pm
I getcha, and I respect your point of view.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 4:08 pm
26. If Trump was not running, he wouldn’t announce it today,
If P then not Q
Q therefore PSammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/15/2022 @ 4:34 pm
There’s something desperate and sad about this tit-for-tat.Dana (1225fc) — 11/15/2022 @ 5:06 pm
There’s something desperate and sad about this tit-for-tat.
Dana (1225fc) — 11/15/2022 @ 5:06 pm
I wonder if JF has any happiness in his life. On here, he seems to exist solely for counterpunching on behalf of MAGA world.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 5:11 pm
And they’re always snarky counterpunches.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 5:25 pm
Trump has filed the paperwork; he’s running for POTUS in 2024.DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:03 pm
he’s running for POTUS in 2024.
DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:03 pm
He’s going to end up like Howard Cosell. Famous for a while, but increasingly scorned, until he mopes off into a lonely and ignominious retirement.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:10 pm
norcal – Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t one of the networks needle Cosell by coveirng a game without announcers? I recall liking the format and, these days, often using the mute button when I am watching sports.Jim Miller (85fd03) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:13 pm
Jim Miller (85fd03) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:13 pm
Yes. I believe it was Dan Ohlmeyer at NBC who tried it one weekend. It wasn’t well-received.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:19 pm
The announcerless game was an American football contest played on December 20, 1980, between the New York Jets and the Miami Dolphins of the National Football League. As an experiment, the NBC television network broadcast it without assigning any commentators to cover it. The two teams were playing the last game of that season for them as neither had qualified for the playoffs, and since the game was being broadcast nationally NBC executive Don Ohlmeyer decided on the idea to boost what would otherwise have been weak ratings. The Jets won a 24–17 upset victory.
If you watched it- it sorta sucked w/o the play by play.DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:23 pm
Okay. Don instead of Dan. Still not bad for off the top of my head, right?norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:27 pm
Breaking News– NASA’s Artemis I in ‘core stage ‘stop flow’— the damn rocket is leaking hydrogen again. The managers are planning to send a ‘Red Crew’ to the partially fuel LV… very dangerous. Essentially, they’re going to use a wrench and torque down the bolts to the connector.
Bang! Zoom!!! This rocket is not ready to fly.
NASA’s politically correct Aretmis managers need to be fired- not the rocket.DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:28 pm
@39. Wouldn’t pass on Jeopardy— but here, okay. 😉DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:28 pm
Still prefer DeSantis.NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:32 pm
norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 5:11 pm
pathetic personal attack
people aren’t who they seem in a freaking blog comment section
for example, the leftists here who pretend to be moderatesJF (71cebd) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:01 pm
Updated added. Brilliant opening paragraph from the Washington Post:Dana (1225fc) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:01 pm
more proof that I’m sad and angryJF (71cebd) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:02 pm
@44 yes, we take our cues from WaPo now
“deadly attack on the Capitol” is a lie, unless they’re referring to Babbit, which they’re notJF (71cebd) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:05 pm
JF (71cebd) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:02 pm
Well, you do give off that impression, JF. If I’m wrong, I apologize.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:07 pm
But what is actually depressing is that so many seem to believe that only Trump can make them happy.
I get the feeling that they want Trump to use his power to screw over all those people they resent. Tanks-in-the-streets values of “screw them over.” Telling them about the Constitution and civil government doesn’t work because they don’t WANT civil government. They want all those other people dead and buried.Kevin M (90f346) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:15 pm
Charge Trump with everything from inciting to riot, to seditious conspiracy, to treason itself. Let a jury pick. If Biden wants to play this out, with Trump’s ratfu** continuing, Georgia can charge him will conspiracy to tamper with election results and jail him down there.Kevin M (90f346) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:18 pm
DeSantis also knows how to get things done. Trump is Mickey in The Sorcerer’s Apprentice.Kevin M (90f346) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:21 pm
Oh I agree DeSantis is immeasurably more competent than Trump. For that matter he’s immeasurably smarter, better informed, and of higher character than Trump. Unfortunately, “better than Trump” is such a low standard as to impart virtually no useful information. That said, I’ll concede he’s smart, informed and competent not just in the useless compared-to-Trump sense but also in an absolute sense. If those were the only criteria I’d have no problem voting for him.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:42 pm
As you should, since as JF has made clear, you don’t know his heart and mind, yet he somehow knows ours.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:50 pm
lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:50 pm
every comment is about you, lurkerJF (71cebd) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:57 pm
Dana: “It continues to jar me just how miserable and angry Republicans are. I talk to Republicans, read and listen to them online, etc., and what a depressing group of people. Their outlook on life is bleak, they have a long laundry list of complaints and see almost nothing positive in American life these days.”
It’s been a steady and growing belligerent disposition over the past 15 years. I still maintain…maybe too often…that it has a lot to do with what people immerse themselves in. Negativity, hyperbole, and rage breeds more of the same. If you are told often enough and loudly enough that there is an existential threat and that everything you value is under mortal assault….that you fear not just irrelevance but cultural extinction….what would you expect? I would expect people who want to break things and justify their rage. I would expect people who want leaders who feed and reflect that anger…and who give them convenient villains to hate….or want to lock up.
It’s telling how far inspiration has fallen from the current GOP message. “An eye for an eye” has become the rallying Biblical anthem. A lout is styled as a modern King David. Loyalty supercedes honesty and decency. Character is vestigial. Principled is now an epithet to be mocked….muh principles indeed.
Too many Republicans have become addicted to drama and grievance. The whining that used to be the hallmark of liberal Democrats has found its way into my house…different notes but same irritating pitch. Yet, few want to admit that it’s an unflattering look….an obese hirsute guy in a speedo. Republicans used to be too busy doing to be pulled into Barnum’s circus. Now we can’t keep our hands off the elephants’ turds…AJ_Liberty (84b9b1) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:57 pm
MAGAGA!! Another word for it is idiocracy.
BTW, DeSantis comments today were pitch perfect.Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:58 pm
@55. Meh. For a minor leaguer.DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 8:04 pm
Beating Charlie Crist is nothing to crow about.DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 8:06 pm
Nationally, he’s a flamer; Lil’Marco scared him off: ‘He briefly ran for U.S. Senate in 2016, but withdrew when incumbent senator Marco Rubio sought reelection.’ An Lil’Marco literally had a bad habit of never showing up for his job, too.DCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 8:10 pm
I said “us,” not “me.” Just betraying my collectivism again, I guess.
Anyway, if you think you can say with a straight face that you haven’t characterized me as one of “the leftists here who pretend to be moderates,” well… I’d like to see your face when you try it.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/15/2022 @ 8:16 pm
SLS/Artemis leaks ‘plugged’– countdown resumed- now in built-in hold; looks like this time it’ll go tonight.
https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#publicDCSCA (008acd) — 11/15/2022 @ 9:35 pm
I still maintain…maybe too often…that it has a lot to do with what people immerse themselves in. Negativity, hyperbole, and rage breeds more of the same. If you are told often enough and loudly enough that there is an existential threat and that everything you value is under mortal assault….that you fear not just irrelevance but cultural extinction….what would you expect?
AJ_Liberty (84b9b1) — 11/15/2022 @ 7:57 pm
Another great comment, AJ. Why don’t you put out a mediocre one every now and then? You know, to give us amateurs some hope.
As for the unfortunate demeanor many Republicans exhibit these days I blame:
1) FOX News. The people who tend to watch it watch a LOT of
it, as in having it on all day long.
2) Social media echo chambers. I believe my MAGA sister gets
all of her news and views from like-minded friends on
3) Talk radio. Guys like Mark Levin are so snarky andnorcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 9:48 pm
obnoxious. He actually starts out his radio show with the
National Anthem every day! That song should be reserved for
special occasions, and accorded more respect. It should not
used as a daily drumbeat implying that Levin’s views are
patriotic, and if you disagree with him, you aren’t.
Here is a non-paywall NYT story about Trump’s chaotic mind, by a guy who’s written three books about him:
He gives credit to Bannon for Trump’s 2016 victory, and states that Trump will not let Bannon run his campaign again precisely because Bannon likewise claimed credit for the win.norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 10:16 pm
LIFTOFF! Artemis 1!
“Look at that rocket GO! Into the clouds at 3,000 feet!’ – Walter Cronkite, 11/9/1967DCSCA (e05cab) — 11/15/2022 @ 10:51 pm
The fuhrer is back trumpsteres! Thats 50% of the party. with 15% just populists. Moderates, neo-cons, economic libertarian free trade/free market conservatives, donor class/big business maybe 35% Desatan who got around the same vote as rubio in floriduh will have plenty of company if he runs.asset (adb800) — 11/15/2022 @ 10:55 pm
Victor david hansan on fox. If the republican elites and donor class abandon trump’s populism what will they replace it with? Romney? Mccain? He should of added Dubya economics for the rich. Cocaine mitch attacked biden ;but had nothing to say what he would do. Like he had no answer of what he would replace obama care with. When lindsay graham came up with a national abortion law he was told to shut up! When donor class told kevin mccarthy to come up with something! He came up with cuts in social security and medicare to pay for more tax cuts for the rich funded by holding debt ceiling hostage it nearly cost him the majority in the house when seniors balked. Trump’s populism has solutions that offend the donor class and cocaine mitch’es chinese friends ;but at least they are solutions. Its biden’s inflation! How will you fight inflation republicans? HUH? Are job is to attack democrat policies!asset (adb800) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:34 am
What has desatan done besides ship migrants from texas to NY. Let see pushed for don’t say gay bill and arrested felons who were told they could legally vote by authorities. Oh I forgot collapsing condos as regulations are government interference. Whats is policy on inflation?asset (adb800) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:49 am
@61 norcal, the media ecosystems understand how to get people addicted….and wrapped up in knots. I too see it with family members and colleagues who always have the buzz of Talk Radio, Fox, or a Joe Rogan podcast in the background or earpiece. People can’t have a conversation without checking their phone, watch, or twitter feed. It’s OCD on overdrive.
A. There is just not that much news
So it becomes mainly speculation and clever manipulations of people’s biases and irrational fears….repeated ad nauseum. It’s largely not journalism….which targets being objective, fact-driven, and unemotional. What’s going on is all about triggering emotions and not getting the other side…because, frankly, the other side is not just wrong but evil…and certainly can’t be trusted. The perfect foil.
Now you see it on both sides…I have relatives addicted to MSNBC and tracking left-wing twitter. The manifestation is a bit different but it is playing on the same emotions and obsessive compulsive impulses. asset here seems at times like one post away from burning something down. I think we have so much media and information available at our fingertips, it’s too easy to grab the Twinkee, nutrition-free content. Trump ain’t writing 5000-word essays on NR….he’s out their grousing in ways that people can relate. It’s changing us and it’s not clear how to even slow it down.AJ_Liberty (84b9b1) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:21 am
AJ_Liberty (84b9b1) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:21 am
i heard this BS for eight straight years after a lefty friend found out I voted for bush
of course i voted for bush cuz Fox News and talk radio distorted my mind. There could be no other reason. This mantra never ceased. Never mind I didn’t watch or listen to either, and still don’t
what an intellectually lazy and slacker way of accounting for why people disagree with you politically
for six years now we’ve had to deal with perpetual anger and disgust and moping cuz the “please clap” wing of the party didn’t get their way. Investigations, impeachment, empty threats of indictment, Trump, trump, trump rent free for six years uninterrupted. Now, after the country is in every way worse off than it was four years ago, and a small victory (meaning, the purveyors of this disaster the democrats did well), it’s Why the glum face, people?
LMFAO you won’t believe this, but there’s a real world out thereJF (4d0449) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:24 am
Dana: “It continues to jar me just how miserable and angry Republicans are. I talk to Republicans, read and listen to them online, etc., and what a depressing group of people. Their outlook on life is bleak, they have a long laundry list of complaints and see almost nothing positive in American life these days.”
Yeah, why should Republicans complain that the left dominates every cultural institution these days, and tells them that they’re subhuman filth who deserve to be oppressed. The nerve of them.Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:44 am
You may find it bias-confirming, but it proves nothing. There’s no conflict between DeSantis being a right wing nut job and also a saner-than-Trump, Trump-light candidate who has demonstrated successful leadership skills
The website hall monitor weighs in with his own question-begging premise.Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:47 am
Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:44 am
the country is worse off economically and by countless other measures, but on the bright side someone’s politics did well so cheer up!JF (4d0449) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:51 am
Dana, It’s not hard to understand why culture warriors are unhappy. What they seem to want is a return to the cultural norms around race, gender roles, religious observation and sexuality that are long past. The government can’t easily deliver that and most people don’t support it. Laws that would grant primacy to their preferences are unpopular.
Gay Marriage is popular, State level proposals to make abortion legal and accessible did very well since Roe was overturned, no one is even proposing mandating Wallmart clerks say “merry Christmas”. Given the increasingly ecumenical nature of our country using the bully pulpit to push the ‘war on Christmas’ isn’t even very popular.
FWO put it well when he said that the left dominates most cultural institutions. Right Wing persuasion has pretty much failed to turn that back. In the face of loss after loss Culture Warriors find that their small government allies are unwilling to help them use state power to push back and sit out elections when nominees who advocate their values are on the ballot.
There are reasons for that, but I doubt the Culture Warriors care. A sane candidate that wanted to use the bully pulpit for culture issues but drew a firm line on authoritarian actions might have a chance at holding it together. But that candidate isn’t on the field. Instead we get nut jobs like Lake and authoritarians like Desantis. From a small government / rule of law perspective the GOP isn’t offering much.
So the coalition between pro-business, culture warriors, small government types, right wing populists, and blood and soil types is broken and when the culture warriors see their ‘enemies’ winning they’re pissed when people that they thought were their allies aren’t even rhetorically on their side.Time123 (303e0c) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:28 am
the country is worse off economically and by countless other measures, but on the bright side someone’s politics did well so cheer up!
JF (4d0449) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:51 am
Funny how cultural conservatives pushing for culturally conservative policies and a rejection of social leftism causes True and Honest Conservatives such heartburn.
The schools are a great example. The GOP was persona non grata there for decades and essentially allowed the left to dominate school boards and PTAs, because they encouraged their voters to believe that any kind of government was a necessary evil at best, and should be avoided to the greatest extent possible. Fast forward about 40 years, the pandemic hits and parents start finding out, thanks to online classes, that the curriculums are pushing the pretenses of cultural marxism, such as anti-white shibboleths designed to encourage self-loathing in white kids while glorifying ethnic nationalism in other races. Meanwhile, the school boards and superintendents dig their heels in and try to keep in-school learning from coming back with any excuse they can muster, despite the empirical harm it’s doing to the students mental health and educational development.
So what do these parents do? They start pushing back against these school boards, demanded accountability, and let them know that the schools serve at the pleasure of the community and should reflect the values of the community, not the other way around. They started running for board positions themselves and have been taking schools to court for openly discriminatory policies and actions, all in the face of the NSBA and DoJ collaborating to demonize them as domestic terrorists.
The lesson here is that the right has to maintain its resolve in the face of the establishment’s efforts to suppress and silence them, not take the left’s historic determinism at face value, and stop treating “government” as a thought-stopping mechanism to justify political apathy. Especially at the local level, which is the farm system for state and national political positions. The lack of dedicated, long-haul grassroots political organization and initiative has always been the right’s greatest weakness, and that has to change if it wants to start reasserting itself as a political force.Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:33 am
Trump is an unclean thing who should be in a hazardous waste dump and not in the White House. All those other words that you’re using are irrelevant, immaterial, and incompetent.nk (9fa806) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:45 am
I saw an article about the tattooing of children in the NYT (you can still find it if you’re unlucky) and a quote from some dipstick that other cultures not only allow but embrace tattooing and that we need to “decolonize the western thought concept”. I have to give the dipstick credit for saying as much nonsense in five words as it takes some people here 500 words to say.nk (9fa806) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:52 am
JF: “what an intellectually lazy and slacker way of accounting for why people disagree with you politically”
Sorry, but it’s a big move for a party to move from nominating known, politically-experienced quantities like Bush, McCain, and Romney to a celebrity, know-nothing with zero government experience. This correlated with an uptick in crisis-peddling in right-wing media….FNC dropping the pretense of fair and balanced… and the further expansion of social media and forums like Twitter. Few question that we are more polarized than 20 years ago…or that media and alternative media have profited from it (we’ve seen it from Facebook and Twitter analysis of their algorithms).
Now your lament suggests that for this to be true EVERY single individual who voted for Trump HAS to have consumed significant Talk Radio or FNC. Supposedly the fact that you consume none of it proves your point. That’s tedious. There are growing numbers on the Right that believe things that are simply NOT true because they get questionable facts and listen to commentators that selectively spin those facts. Someone watches Hannity and listens to Steve Bannon, right? There are certainly memes on the Left as well together with over-reactions and hyperbole. The issue is that it drove the Right to vote in someone of questionable competence and character — someone outside the Overton Window. Biden, as bad as he is, is still a candidate inside the Overton Window. He was VP and was not a Sanders or Warren bomb thrower. So the Left for some reason did not feel like they had to nominate Oprah, AOC, or Mark Cuban to counter Trump. The Right did and when faced with incompetence on Jan 6th, ate their own versus moving on from Trump. Rather than finding a new direction, the base double-downed on pushing many weak candidates that felt compelled to latch onto off-putting election denialism.
I understand it bothers you that I think this is a big problem for the GOP and the trajectory of our democracy. You seem to view politics as primarily about being really angry about/with Democrats. You’re a classic hyper-partisan who spends all of his time insulting and mocking conservatives who want change in the GOP. That’s your prerogative, but as I wrote recently, politics is about addition, not subtraction. It’s about building coalitions able to accomplish things, not about continuously culling the herd. Your philosophy leaves us with anger and bitterness….you might as well be listening to Talk Radio and watching FNC….AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 8:19 am
Time123 (303e0c) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:28 am
have you figured out why you like Youngkin yet?JF (f5a07f) — 11/16/2022 @ 8:21 am
FWO: “Funny how cultural conservatives pushing for culturally conservative policies and a rejection of social leftism causes True and Honest Conservatives such heartburn.”
Election denialism is NOT a culturally conservative policy. Neither is the other QAnon nuttery. With regards to abortion, the problem isn’t being pro-life…the problem was putting out positions that were not especially popular….like no exemptions for rape….and expecting a different result. Conservatives are aggravated that a red wave turned into a red trickle because of bad rash choices by the base.
Education is a great issue, but it’s primarily local. Nothing stops Republicans from running for school boards and advocating reforms. A party doesn’t need Trump to do that and Trump was not especially interested in these topics except where they could be used as a cudgel. DeVos did great things at the federal level, but she distanced herself from Trump after 1/6. It’s silly to equate opposition to Trump and his politics as to complete opposition to any conservative cultural positions. Most are local; a few have national implications and potential legislative avenues. Some offer political advantage and some, as we saw in 2022, do not. Many of us want smart cultural engagement….persuasion and good will. That’s how parties move forward…not continually running into a wall and then blaming moderates….AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 8:36 am
Finally, a recommended prescription.Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/16/2022 @ 9:06 am
There was an organization (maybe it’s still around, I forget the name, but it bothered the hell out of liberals) that was heavily involved with electing conservatives to local elective offices. How well a presidential candidate could organize and spread such grassroots, we’ll see, but we know that Trump is not that kind of strategist.
An even better headline:
The polls cited above were released in the past couple of weeks while the polls in post 79 are older.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 9:11 am
@77, originally he seemed like a decent balance of small government/ culture war. But he went and stumped for Lake, so I guess I was wrong about him.
I have no use for anyone that supports Trump’s attempt to steal the election & Lake made that a key part of her pitch.Time123 (91b664) — 11/16/2022 @ 10:11 am
“Election denialism is NOT a culturally conservative policy”
Said no one by a nobody…..
You should write for the Dispatch that way we dont have to read the tripe here
Look Democrats changed over 114 election laws and regulations in 2020 – not to make sure more republicans could win elections but to deny them chances to win elections.EPWJ (650a62) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:28 am
“Look Democrats changed over 114 election laws and regulations in 2020 – not to make sure more republicans could win elections but to deny them chances to win elections.”
Wow, they changed laws and regulations…it almost sounds like democracy and historic pandemic times. Personally, I’m against overly extended periods of time to vote and same-day registration, but many locations have figured out how to do mailed ballots. But the point here is that election crying is a bad look and just because you lost doesn’t mean you were cheated or laws were broken. DeSantis did fine without whining. Why not choose better candidates for the general?
“You should write for the Dispatch that way we dont have to read the tripe here”
Who’s WE? Especially since our host is conspicuously NOT an election denier. I won’t suggest that you leave because you need to stay and learn something. You get too many things wrong.AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:52 am
You have zero interest in social conservativism either. Yoy prefer social leftism, don’t you?NJRob (a71685) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:00 pm
“Wow, they changed laws and regulations…it almost sounds like democracy and historic pandemic times.”
Bull… Really Dispatch is where your denialism of political realities of basic understandings of maths, and laws and common sense go to die unread by their non subscribers.
Goading you into spewing Walls of text to justify obtuseness is fun in the beginning – kind of like playing peekaboo with an infant on an airplane until you realize its a 7 hour flight, you’ll just beclown yourself, further, and are spamming the comments with verbiage of the garbage variety
THey didn’t make those laws two sided – they didn’t make them temporary, go back to daily Kos where you obviously mobyied on over fromEPWJ (650a62) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:02 pm
EPWJ, blockedAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:13 pm
By announcing, Trump stopped Facebook from fact checking what he says. (he also lost the RNC paying for his lawyers)Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:16 pm
Leftwing link for those who prefer leftist sites.
Judge doesn’t even pretend to follow the law. Just sticks his middle finger in our faces akd dares us to stop him.NJRob (3a19bd) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:26 pm
Kari Lake and the Republican election officials of Maricopa County Arizona, may have cost herself the election.
You see, Maricopa County (Phoenix area) which contains approximately 60% of Arizona’s registered voters, allows voters to vote in any precinct. Now, the list of offices to vote for is not the same everywhere – there are different state legislative districts for one. So they solved that problem by arranging to print ballots for the voter if the ballot style was not the same as that used in that precinct.
But the printing wasn’t of good quality!
When they put them into the tabulating machine the paper ballot was rejected.
They said they could put them aside in Box 3. Some didn’t want to do that.
So they told them to try another precinct. But some discarded the ballots. A few people discarded their ballots, expecting to get another one at the second precinct.
Others never deposited them.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/us/politics/kari-lake-republicans-election-midterms.htmlSammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:27 pm
But the point here is that election crying is a bad look and just because you lost doesn’t mean you were cheated or laws were broken. DeSantis did fine without whining. Why not choose better candidates for the general?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:52 am
DeSantis is a right wing nut job according to “moderates” here.
Skewing the electorate towards the slacker demographic helps one party only. That’s fine from a legal standpoint but be up front about what you’re defending.
In Oregon, where they’ve had a head start on this for many years, it pretty much means the drug addled, transient, delinquent and black blok hold sway. Drazan was an excellent candidate, the best the republicans could put forth, and Kotek is absolutely horrible, with a third candidate sucking about 9% mostly from Kotek. But Kotek won, barely, cuz she appeals to that crowd.
Get ready for this to go national. Republicans will “underperform” for years to come, and it’ll be blamed on Trump. It is Trump’s fault in a way, cuz he triggered folks like you to go along with these voting rules shenanigans for one reason only: to defeat him. Congrats, it worked.
As I’ve mentioned before, type “voter ID” in the search window on this blog and you’ll see a litany of posts touting the importance of voter ID. What changed? You did.JF (464503) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:28 pm
89. NJRob (3a19bd) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:26 pm
That’s a possibly reasonable decision, but it is probably one for the United States Supreme Court to make.
The question is: What happens with laws that were passed at a time when nobody (?) thought they would go into effect? When the Supreme Court restored the death penalty, they didn’t revive all or any of the old death penalty laws. (although that might be different,. Maybe none of them complied with the new doctrine of a separate decision (by the jury?) as to whether to impose the death penalty – I think that’s the doctrine now
I think the Arizona abortion law was passed actually in the hopes of being upheld by the Supreme Court. It’s not like a 1931 or 1860’s law suddenly brought back. A new law might not be as liberal.Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:36 pm
JF (464503) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:28 pm
No, they pretend, ad especially Stacey Abrams pretended, that people want to vote and know who they want to vote for.
This is for the purpose of helping candidates not voters.
Doesn’t a person have to have a permanent, preregistered, mailing address?Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:40 pm
EPWJ, You should apologize for the personal insults.Time123 (91b664) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:44 pm
Rob, I’m generally fiscally conservative, socially liberal and believe in limited government and rule of law. Used to be generally supportive of social conservatives even when I didn’t agree because we were on the same “team” and I could respect their beliefs even when I didn’t share their intensity.Time123 (91b664) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:49 pm
@68You voted for bush twice. Do you take any responsibility for the thousands of deaths of americans he caused?asset (1c1525) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:50 pm
@69 well aren’t they.asset (1c1525) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:53 pm
asset (1c1525) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:50 pm
asset, thanks for the reminder of what the left thought of bush back then
helpful for those here who think republicans will win respect if they just dump the trumpsters
with the gift of hindsight, I like him a lot less and the left seems to gush over him, and he drinks it all in
what does that tell you?JF (464503) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:57 pm
and yes I do take responsibility, and part of that is rejecting the establishment grifters like cheneyJF (464503) — 11/16/2022 @ 12:58 pm
@92 Abortion protection initiative ready to go and will easily pass in az. In may 156,000 signatures were garnered in less then a month before time limit in june stopped it. 60% of az support an abortion initiative.asset (1c1525) — 11/16/2022 @ 1:12 pm
asset @65. It was Rick Scott who came up with cuts to Social Security.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/republicans-social-security-medicare.htmlSammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/16/2022 @ 1:14 pm
@98 Not the left. The corporate establishment democrats and their running dogs in the corporate media for their own political reasons (trump derangement syndrome) they are centrists not LEFTISTS! The left has never liked the war criminal bush. Iraq war cost clinton the nomination in 2008 and the election in 2016. And should have cost biden and did cost kerry.asset (1c1525) — 11/16/2022 @ 1:24 pm
@101Kevin mccarthy before the election said if he got the majority he would cut social security and medicare holding the debt ceiling hostage to pass it. Ron johnson said he would sunset both!asset (1c1525) — 11/16/2022 @ 1:29 pm
I agree with Time. EPWJ should apologize to AJ.norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 1:58 pm
I want to clarify one thing, AJ. When I said you should write at The Dispatch, I meant being a featured writer. Your comments here are most welcome.norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 2:04 pm
People who are social leftists are not conservatives. They are libertarians at best and just plain leftists at worst.
Any who pretended to go along with social conservativism have abandoned that now that the Supreme Court has put Roe in the dustbin of history where it belonged.NJRob (02de95) — 11/16/2022 @ 2:35 pm
I apologise to AJ for being too busy to stop the relentless perfect person drivel days ago. Its obvious drivel, tripe full of bold senseless statementsEPWJ (650a62) — 11/16/2022 @ 2:46 pm
oh boy – mobys are thick today
EPWJ (650a62) — 11/16/2022 @ 2:46 pm
I didn’t expect a real apology. Sadly, I was right.norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 2:55 pm
Serves you right. Don’t you know Moby Hall Monitor is my job?lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:16 pm
Don’t you know Moby Hall Monitor is my job?
In my best Johnny Carson voice, “I did not know that.”norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:18 pm
“Your comments here are most welcome.”
Thanks norcal, I enjoy your comments as well. You always make a great effort to be civil. You make this a better site.AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:26 pm
People who are social leftists are not conservatives. They are libertarians at best and just plain leftists at worst.
Neither of these is true.
1) People who would use state power to force people to conform to previous norms are not conservatives, they are right-wing authoritarians.
2) People who would use state power to force people to accept new “norms” are not libertarians, they are left-wing authoritarians. Whether they are liberals depends on which debased definition you prefer.
A true libertarian would say “whatever!” A true conservative would say “Yuck, just don’t do that around me, but whatever.”Kevin M (90f346) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:32 pm
Well, that’s what FWO tells me so it must be true.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:38 pm
Anyway, it’s unfair to ask EPWJ to apologize to AJ until your leftist mom gets a job and apologizes to EPWJ for wanting to steal his money.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:43 pm
NJRob, I think Kevin’s comment is spot on. But maybe the definition of “conservative” had changed. I don’t care. My position on what’s important in a candidate hasn’t changed much. I like Romney(and agreed with most of his positions) when he ran and I like most of his positions now.Time123 (2cbc71) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:45 pm
@112, well said Kevin.Time123 (2cbc71) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:45 pm
Some in Trump’s audience didn’t care for the whole announcement?
Considering that the speech lasted more than an hour, one can see why some might want to leave — especially if there was nothing new in his ramblings.
(One of the reasons I like to call his followers “Trumpistas” is to remind everyone of the orange loser’s resemblance to many Latin American demagogues — who also like to give long speeches.)Jim Miller (85fd03) — 11/16/2022 @ 3:55 pm
EPWJ has confided, here, that he suffers from a chronic physical ailment. It can alter blood chemistry — in fact it does and those alterations have been classified into six stages — which in turn affects mental and emotional states.nk (974b10) — 11/16/2022 @ 4:12 pm
If any cheating was done in 2020, it was by Republicans. Trump got around 11 million more votes running against Biden than he got running against Hillary. Does anybody believe that 11 million voters like Hillary more than they like Biden? It’s absurd.nk (974b10) — 11/16/2022 @ 4:25 pm
I must say I was surprised by Kentucky voters rejecting a pro-life constitutional amendment and Montana voters rejecting a “born alive” referendum. Not so much the votes in California, Vermont, and Michigan.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 4:41 pm
Thanks for that. I withdraw and apologize for my mockery.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:02 pm
Karen Bass is projected to become the first woman elected mayor in Los Angeles. At last report she leads Caruso 53.2% to 46.9%. This of course was a forgone result, given the demographics of the city:
Caruso was also a fake Democrat; why vote for a fake when you can vote for the real thing? It also goes to show that despite spending over $90 million of his own money (versus $12.5 million raised by Bass and outside committees), and inundating the airwaves with his commercials, he still couldn’t win.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:13 pm
Once again Kevin,
It helps ton read what I actually wrote and not what you want to read.
I didn’t define what a conservative was. I defined what it wasn’t.NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:14 pm
Ouch!Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:20 pm
Wouldn’t then the opposite be true?Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:22 pm
RIP Robert Clary (96).Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:31 pm
A tail is not a leg. It doesn’t tell you what a leg is. It tells you what it is not.NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:32 pm
You obviously didn’t get the Seinfeld reference.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:34 pm
More to the point, I think that “social leftist” is pretty much the same as “social rightist” in that they both want to use state power to enforce their morality on others.
Of course, I deny being either. Live and let live — up to the point were your living interferes with mine — is the only correct position. Everything else is using force to make other people follow your rules.
There is a vast difference between “Do not teach this to my children” and “Do not teach this to anyone.” That public schools think that teaching prayer is monstrous, but teaching morality is a necessary service, shows why state schools are as bad as state churches.Kevin M (90f346) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:41 pm
Nitch’s minions doing his bidding.NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 5:44 pm
EPWJ has confided, here, that he suffers from a chronic physical ailment. It can alter blood chemistry — in fact it does and those alterations have been classified into six stages — which in turn affects mental and emotional states.
nk (974b10) — 11/16/2022 @ 4:12 pm
Is this true? The problem with being the site jester is that people don’t know when to take you seriously.norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:01 pm
Wonderful breakdown @112, Kevin.
I’m going to use it.norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:04 pm
TrumpWorld not amused:Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:04 pm
Is this true?
The “confided” part is true. He said it in reply to one of my comments. I will not elaborate on what he said, or whether it is objectively true.
The problem with being the site jester is that people don’t know when to take you seriously.
Those are the people for whom slapstick was invented. People with a well-developed sense of humor know when they’re being kidded and when a point is being made in a humorous, ironic way.nk (974b10) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:20 pm
I see a large number of GOP senators are supporting the same sex marriage bill.Time123 (0ae933) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:20 pm
Good for them.
How else could they get U.S. v. Windsor and Hodges v. Obergefell before the Supreme Court again?nk (974b10) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:35 pm
I see the freepers are still not able to carry a single thought through a paragraph. If marriage was only a religious or sacramental ritual, why would it even be the state’s business? A state doesn’t care at all if I’ve had first communion or if my grandmother had last rites. The reason any of our governmental bodies cares is because marriage is also a legal contract. Though it would be an interesting result if the USSC decided that marriage was only religious and the law couldn’t regulate it at all (hello married filing jointly people now filing as singles, hello FLDS, hello whatever pagan group wants to marry various polycules.) Congrats to everyone who would suddenly be legally uncoupled.Nic (896fdf) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:41 pm
Da troof probably is the $20.4 million Peter Thiel contributed to Republican candidates this election season alone.
As long as it does not go outside Windsor and Obergefell, the law will probably pass Constitutional muster as an Enabling Act under the Fourteenth Amendment. Which cannot be said for Graham’s abortion bill.nk (974b10) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:22 pm
its true. Also been arrested and interrogated for hours by more than one arab government too. Shot stabbed, never learned to duck properly. Left out in the deep desert in 130 degrees – been loads of fun.
look – people here are looking for a magic person that just doesn’t exist in politics – we had a senator from Oklahoma who fit the perfectness – no one remembers even his name, he served honorably and honored his pledge to limit his terms. But no one promoted a doctor and an engineer to a leadership position.
OH everyone here went nuts when Palin arrived on scene, then Cruz was the man.
I just don’t have patience for perfectness, silly platitudes, walls of blathering text that makes you feel good but its dangerous – its why 2 % of republican voters in the midwest and west decided to stay home after a long day at work – seeing the Florida wave – why should they stand in line for hours to vote when its over – thats why some races were lost.
The wave crashed upon a huge turnout that – tested the patience of people who have jobs – their called republicans.
I worry about you all and your children – the damage these idiots are trying to do may become irreversible. My kids went to West Point, top schools, have top jobs, my son in laws are all decorated combat infantry and aviation officers, God has blessed me – not everyone is as lucky as I am.
DeSantis vs Trump is a disaster for republicans – its Carter/Kennedy all over again – those two have got to form a ticket like Reagan and Bush or its 8 years of whatever horrible scum the democrats put up.
The era of fainting couch politics is over, along time ago they picked up on the distaste of good Americans, who want a nice moral environment – its working – don’t fall for it again….EPWJ (650a62) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:46 pm
Nic (896fdf) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:41 pm
we can’t define what a woman is, but we’ve got a marriage definition nailed down
baby stepsJF (fe921e) — 11/16/2022 @ 8:02 pm
I don’t know what game she is trying to play here since she’s a better complement to Don than to Ron but she seems to be aging in reverse 😍!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gov-kristi-noem-says-former-030040380.htmlurbanleftbehind (153056) — 11/16/2022 @ 8:16 pm
I see a large number of GOP senators are supporting the same sex marriage bill.
The Mormon Church is supporting it, so long as it leaves churches free in their beliefs. I fully expect someone to push on that.Kevin M (90f346) — 11/16/2022 @ 10:44 pm
Those are the people for whom slapstick was invented.
Then there are those who don’t “get” slapstick. They usually go work for the IRS or FBI.Kevin M (90f346) — 11/16/2022 @ 10:45 pm
If marriage was only a religious or sacramental ritual, why would it even be the state’s business?
Take a look at the Catholic Church’s view of “divorce.” The state may say that the legal contract is nullified, but that does not change the spiritual bond one little bit.
A church has not power in the legal realm, and the state has no power in the spiritual world. Simple enough, although there are those who don’t get this simple division.
The confusion starts when a pastor says “By the power invested in me by the state of ____.” They probably should not do that. Instead they should conduct their spiritual ceremony and suggest that for a legal contract the happy couple should go see the county clerk.Kevin M (90f346) — 11/16/2022 @ 10:52 pm
@Kevin@144 I absolutely agree. Marriage is really two things called the same thing, which can be confusing for people. The state doesn’t care if I get married in the Church and the Church doesn’t really care if I’m married legally (well, it kind of does and kind of doesn’t, mostly because of all the Catholics who don’t get married in the Church, so the Church kind of winks at their secular marriage probably for reasons of economics and because the more facile reasoning against premarital- or in this case non-sacramental marital- sex is kind of silly).Nic (896fdf) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:20 pm
The Mormon Church is supporting it, so long as it leaves churches free in their beliefs. I fully expect someone to push on that.
Kevin M (90f346) — 11/16/2022 @ 10:44 pm
The church was against legalized gay marriage before it was for it, just like it was against black men having the priesthood prior to 1978.
Swap one word in Churchill’s quote, and it’s still accurate.
Mormons will eventually do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other options.norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:34 pm
nk (974b10) — 11/16/2022 @ 6:20 pm
It was the “six stages” part that threw me.
How dare you denigrate my sense of humor!norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:37 pm
I share Sarah Silverman’s opinion of marriage. “Why would I want the government involved in my love life? Ew. It’s barbaric.”norcal (a1f318) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:46 pm
@120 Why were you surprised? 80% support abortion in some form in polling. Your comment reminds me of tv critic judith crist’s comment That she couldn’t understand how nixon won 1972 election all her friends were voting for mcgovern! Bubble. In 2024 abortion initiatives will be on the balance in many states bring out women to vote and vote out rethugliKKKans while voting on right to choose.asset (cc789d) — 11/16/2022 @ 11:47 pm
I share Sarah Silverman’s opinion of marriage. “Why would I want the government involved in my love life? Ew. It’s barbaric.”
Now let’s do that with “stealthing” laws.nk (6c45b4) — 11/17/2022 @ 4:26 am
All the various “What is marriage? What’s it for? Why is it the state’s business?” are smoke. Red herrings. Disingenuousness. What licensed same-sex marriage really is, it’s one of the pathways to the full “normalization” — the societal and institutional acceptance — of homosexuality generally.nk (6c45b4) — 11/17/2022 @ 4:45 am
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…Appalled (03f53c) — 11/17/2022 @ 6:05 am
calling a same sex civil union a marriage is just another participation trophyJF (ce6d21) — 11/17/2022 @ 6:06 am
No, it matters a lot. For tax, benefits, inheritance, divorce, consistency across states, joint ownership.Appalled (f23ed3) — 11/17/2022 @ 6:12 am
It’s not marriage. You can bast@rdize the word all you want, but it doesn’t change reality any more than a guy becoming a eunuch is now a girl.NJRob (4c00fb) — 11/17/2022 @ 6:17 am
In the eyes of the state and Congress and the bulk of the people, it is.Appalled (6cc0bb) — 11/17/2022 @ 6:33 am
Appalled (6cc0bb) — 11/17/2022 @ 6:33 am
we know that doesn’t matter, or it only matters one way
ask the people of California who voted to reject itJF (ce6d21) — 11/17/2022 @ 6:50 am
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
As regards to marriage, only because we believe we have found other solutions to the original conundrum that created the institution of marriage in the first place: “It’s mama’s baby, daddy’s maybe.”
The undertaking of a man’s responsibility for the product(s) of his procreative urge and the adoption of the child and the mother into the man’s family. (And vice versa, if you wish, sons-in-law and brothers-in-law are valued too.) “Ain’t nobody want to be alone”, Kennedy’s opening line in Obergefell is thin gruel, a far cry from that.nk (6c45b4) — 11/17/2022 @ 7:08 am
122, Rip, I think the LA mayoral race crosstabs will probably show the races and ethnicities not lower than 40% or greater than 60% for either candidate. Even accounting for income, this is a race where the harvesting ops probably won the day. And I wanted a Caruso/Zeldin/Bailey sweep for the crime reason (but in combination with the red fart that actually occured for Congress/US Senate).
The Arizona governor polling didn’t show much divergence between NHW and Hispanic either (Lake polled at 47%).urbanleftbehind (153056) — 11/17/2022 @ 7:10 am
And, yes, there are much worse corruptions of the procreative urge than same-sex marriage. Such as making a baby and killing it in the womb.nk (35a659) — 11/17/2022 @ 7:21 am
I get your reference and thought that was an outrage at the time. Nevertheless, I don’t think you’d get the same answer from the California electorate today.
I don’t expect to change nk’s and NJRob’s mind on this issue. Nor will the courts dive into it. Congress, doing its job for once, probably have kept the courts out of it.Appalled (03f53c) — 11/17/2022 @ 8:07 am
Oh, I am no witchfinder. My defense of traditional marriage is only that. Same-sex marriage is not a tide I have any wish to swim against, or to demonize its celebrants.nk (35a659) — 11/17/2022 @ 8:32 am
RIP Michael Gerson (58).Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/17/2022 @ 9:17 am
We would definitely not get the same response in California today.aphrael (4c4719) — 11/17/2022 @ 9:20 am
Gerson, writing the 9/11 speech, the emotions, the moment to be forever etched in the pageant of our great country’s history.
A loss for sureEPWJ (650a62) — 11/17/2022 @ 10:05 am
As an evangelical (with evangelical parents) he also wrote frequently about religion and politics:Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/17/2022 @ 10:59 am
That’s latter day post hoc reasoning. I think official marriage is more likely was more likely created in order to avoid jealousy and love triangles.Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/17/2022 @ 1:12 pm
http://www.electionbettingodds.comSammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/17/2022 @ 1:17 pm
Ivanka Trump wants no part of this.Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/17/2022 @ 1:23 pm
Mo Brooks broke with Trump earlier this year.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/23/trump-rescinds-mo-brooks-senate-endorsement-00019588Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/17/2022 @ 1:25 pm
Election denialism is NOT a culturally conservative policy. Neither is the other QAnon nuttery.
And? I recall a great deal of hand-wringing here when DeSantis decided to take on Disney and its wokery. Same thing with the same dumb ideology being pushed in schools and mass media. “Oh, this isn’t something that we should be concerned about, it’s just a culture war issue!” Same old desperation to avoid getting in any kind of political fight with the left.
With regards to abortion, the problem isn’t being pro-life…the problem was putting out positions that were not especially popular….like no exemptions for rape….and expecting a different result. Conservatives are aggravated that a red wave turned into a red trickle because of bad rash choices by the base.
Abortion all the way up until the magic birth canal trip has about a 20% support rate, but that hasn’t stopped Democratic politicians from implementing it, or promoting it outright like Hobbs and Abrams did. The difference is that the media, entertainment industry, and academia supports that position, too, so they suffer no consequences for promoting it.
Education is a great issue, but it’s primarily local.
So what? Education is handled at the local and state levels, and are themselves influenced by federal officials. That’s how Common Core got implemented during the Obama years, or “New Math” 50 years ago.
Nothing stops Republicans from running for school boards and advocating reforms.
No, but they can be disincentivized to do so by a national party that pushes small government and minarchism as a political ideology. Meanwhile, the party as a whole punted on engaging in these arenas for decades, and the current state of society is the result.
Many of us want smart cultural engagement….persuasion and good will. That’s how parties move forward…not continually running into a wall and then blaming moderates….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/16/2022 @ 8:36 am
But your faction has been completely incompetent at “smart cultural engagement” for the last 30 years. The proof is right there for everyone to see in who controls the nation’s cultural institutions. And if small government types can’t even manage to maintain a foothold in the very thing that influences a nation’s character and sense of identity, why should cultural conservatives continue to support small government when this was the result?Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/17/2022 @ 11:03 pm
@170. Until he wins.
Heat.DCSCA (22e0ad) — 11/17/2022 @ 11:06 pm
And for those who think persuasion is what’s needed here, the left doesn’t even have to bother with that, either–they just brute-force their agenda through where they can, knowing the GOP will be the same old pushovers they’ve been for decades now, and knowing the media will continue to carry their water, serving as their in-kind propaganda mills, to frame anyone resisting said agenda as heartless, bigoted monsters.Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/17/2022 @ 11:08 pm
I share Sarah Silverman’s opinion of marriage. “Why would I want the government involved in my love life? Ew. It’s barbaric.”
She’s single- and for good reason. It would take an Act of Congress to get any man to marry Sarah Silverman. 😉DCSCA (22e0ad) — 11/17/2022 @ 11:12 pm
So the coalition between pro-business, culture warriors, small government types, right wing populists, and blood and soil types is broken and when the culture warriors see their ‘enemies’ winning they’re pissed when people that they thought were their allies aren’t even rhetorically on their side.
Time123 (303e0c) — 11/16/2022 @ 7:28 am
Time made an excellent point here. Corporations and the Chamber of Commerce are now pushing the same critical race/cultural marxist garbage I had to read in grad school over 20 years ago. If that’s the stance they want to take, fine, but if the left wants to cornhole some of these people for stepping out of line, I’m certainly not going to step up and defend them. And that’s not even taking into account the really illegal stuff like securitization fraud that took place before it all blew up in 2008, that resulted in the banks getting a nice fat bailout at my expense.
If corporations want to go woke, I’m fine with regulating them to the hilt until they scream for mercy. It’s freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences, after all.Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/17/2022 @ 11:16 pm
61, norcal (a1f318) — 11/15/2022 @ 9:48 pm
Since World War II it has been played or sung before every baseball game and other sporting events — even last night at the start of play for Stephen Colbert’s
Celebrity Pickleball Tournament on CBS last night at 9 pm.
It started so that major League Baseball wouldn’t be criticized for continuing to pay ball during World War II- it was argued it is good for morale.Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/18/2022 @ 11:46 am
Apples and watermelons, Sammy. Playing the anthem at sporting events is fine.
That Mark Levin plays it EVERY DAY at the beginning of his very one-sided and vituperative radio talk show is overbearing and obnoxious.
Like Samuel Johnson said, “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”norcal (a1f318) — 11/18/2022 @ 2:57 pm
norcal (a1f318) — 11/18/2022 @ 2:57 pm
I haven’t listened to Mark Levin in at least 10 years, but when I did he was starting (or maybe ending?) every show with Ray Charles’ America the Beautiful, which I enjoy whenever, wherever anyone plays it. Do you know why he replaced it with the National Anthem?lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/18/2022 @ 9:15 pm
lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/18/2022 @ 9:15 pm
I don’t know for sure. I can only surmise that he wants his listeners to think he is on the side of patriotism, and that anybody who disagrees with his political opinions are not.norcal (a1f318) — 11/18/2022 @ 11:11 pm
I don’t get that. America the Beautiful, in addition to being a better song, is just as patriotic.lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/19/2022 @ 1:47 am