January 6 Committee Hearing Today (UPDATE ADDED)
[guest post by Dana]
About today’s Jan. 6 Committee hearing:
A committee aide said Thursday’s hearing will examine events that took place before, during and after the riot itself, with a particular focus on Trump’s state of mind and his level of involvement with the scheme to challenge the election results, NBC News reported. The nine-member panel will seek to contextualize those plans, while providing new information and witness testimony, the aide said.
More than 1 million newly obtained electronic communications records from the Secret Service are expected to play a key role in helping committee members fill in details of President Donald Trump’s actions and his state of mind as protesters swarmed the Capitol.
Interestingly, since the hearings began, the number of Republicans who once believed Trump’s Big Lie about the 2020 elections has dropped:
[T]he number of Republicans who believe the false claim that the 2020 election was stolen from former President Donald Trump has dropped below the two-thirds mark. That still leaves a lot of Republicans who believe something that is not true, but the group has shrunk by several percentage points.
Over the course of nine public opinion surveys by Yahoo News/YouGov between January 2021 and early June 2022, the average number of Republicans who believed incorrectly that the 2020 election was rigged was 66%.
But in three Yahoo News/YouGov polls conducted since the Jan. 6 committee held its eight hearings from June 9 to July 21, the number of Republicans who believed Trump’s “big lie” had fallen to 60%.
As for Trump’s behavior around the event, survey data shows that attitudes about his role in the insurrection on Jan. 6, 2021, have not shifted a lot.
Obviously, the 299 Republicans running for office who continue to believe that the 2020 election was stolen, remain unmoved by the hearings.
And just popping over to Trump’s Truth Social account, the former president doesn’t appear to have the Committee hearing on his mind, but rather is focused on the E.J.Carroll suit against him and the denial of a federal judge to delay his deposition:
UPDATE:
BREAKING: The Select Committee unanimously votes to subpoena Donald J. Trump, former President of the United States, to provide evidence as part of the committee’s investigation.
— January 6th Committee (@January6thCmte) October 13, 2022
UPDATE 2: Trump responded to the January 6 Committee’s hearing today:
Why didn’t the Unselect Committee ask me to testify months ago? Why did they wait until the very end, the final moments of their last meeting? Because the Committee is a total “BUST” that has only served to further divide our Country which, by the way, is doing very badly – A laughing stock all over the World?
The Unselect Committee knowingly failed to examine the massive voter fraud which took place during the 2020 Presidential Election – The reason for what took place on January 6th.
–Dana
Good morning. The hearing begins at 10 AM PST.
Dana (1225fc) — 10/13/2022 @ 9:42 amHere is a “during” event:
Video at the link.
BuDuh (9fa033) — 10/13/2022 @ 10:06 amI’m watching it, but the main thing I’m thinking is “wrap this up, finish the report, send referrals to DOJ, and move on”.
As for Epps, BuDuh, I don’t move what I’m seeing on the video. I do note that the MAGA Cultist Wing of the GOP is still on a major vendetta against him and they’re still operating on the factless presumption that he’s in cahoots with the FBI.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 10:25 amNo hurricanes to bigfoot coverage this week, eh, Daughter Darth?
Gilligan’s Island reruns over on MeTV. Are you a Ginger or MaryAnn gal, Liz?
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:00 amSing along, kids:
“The last time I saw Paris,
Adam Schiff was raising cash;
Whine and cheesy American ugly;
Deserve a hard kick up the ass…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhbDAV04Bo4
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:21 amOT: https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/12/politics/jake-sullivan-saudi-arabia-joe-biden/index.html
I was told that a president coercing a foreign government to help him win an election was an impeachable offense, even though he may have a colorable rationale.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:25 am“I was told that a president coercing a foreign government to help him win an election was an impeachable offense, even though he may have a colorable rationale.”
Which political enemy is Biden coercing the Saudis to give him info on?
Davethulhu (43df02) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:29 amThe Trump / Carroll thing is hilarious because his lawyers have been trying to argue that, since he allegedly defamed her while President, the fact that he was President somehow makes him immune to the defamation charge.
But he’s now defamed her again. While not President. Completely undermining his team’s legal argument.
Why does any lawyer agree to work for him?
aphrael (4c4719) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:30 am@7 Dave. Don’t be so pedantic.
The argument for Trump’s 1st impeachment was that it was done for partisan purposes.
Biden beseeching the Saudi to “delay” production cuts to help his party in the mid-terms has the same vibe.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:36 am“As for Epps, BuDuh, I don’t move what I’m seeing on the video. I do note that the MAGA Cultist Wing of the GOP is still on a major vendetta against him and they’re still operating on the factless presumption that he’s in cahoots with the FBI.”
MAGA Cultist Wing vs. NeverTrump Douchebag Pack… PPV?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:44 amThe Chairman started by saying this was not a hearing, but a business meeting so they can vote. Report is that what they will vote to do is not a referral but subpoening Donald Trump.
Each member is givinga p speech which can include excerpts of testimonynd written material, but apparently no live witnesses.
Mostly true, and focusing so far on the fact that Trump lied and had to know he was lying, except that conspicuously missing ir almost missing (references to it creep in) is:
1) The fact that the plan for the day involved objections. True, it may have switched the last few days mainly to pressuring Mike Pence, but Trump didn’t consider it all over at that point when Mike Pence did not do that.
He was pursuing both the Mike Pence rejection plan (which he no doubt figured had a better chance of success if it happened) and the Congressional vote. Adam Schiff avoided mentioning that – the fact that this was the earlier and more expected plan.
Everything else Trump did to try to overturn the election is mentioned prominently by someone or other.
2) That many of the attackers never attended the rally at the Ellipse.
3) That the weapons found that day had nothing to do with the attack. And if a Far right group stashed some in Virginia, they didn’t use them.
4) That some of the reports of possible violence didn’t mean that anyone knew for a fact that that was going to happen. ere was one person who speculated violence might break out after dark. (cited because of the response) It’s mentioned that one person thought somebody predicting an assault on the Capitol was “clairvoyant”
They haven’t yet gotten to Trump’s proposed trip to the Capitol.
Sammy Finkelman (63a266) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:49 amWith apologies to the Pythons, and now for something completely different:
“Ewwww, I don’t like Trump!
Lovely Trump
Wunderful Trumppp
Lovely Trump
Wunderful Trumppp
Tru-m-m-m-m-p
Tru-m-m-m-m-p
TRU-M-M-M-M-P
TRU-M-M-M-M-P
LOVELY TRUMP
LOVELY TRUMP
LOVELY TRUMP
LOVELY TRUMP
LOVELY TRU-M-M-M-P
TRUMMM-P
TRUMMM-P
TRUMMM-P
TRU-M-M-M-M-P
TRUMP
TRUMP
TRUMP!!!!
… the Larch.” 😉
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:52 am“Biden beseeching the Saudi to “delay” production cuts to help his party in the mid-terms has the same vibe.”
Does his best to insult the Saudis then begs for a delay. Note that the Saudis and OPEC “cut” number – two million barrels – was tied to Biden’s actions.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/13/2022 @ 11:59 amDid Biden pull a “do me a favor” with the Saudi royal family, asking them to investigate some sort of malfeasance by Trump (or DeSantis) in exchange for weapons or something?
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:09 pmSemi-related, the Supreme Court just denied hearing Trump’s request to intervene on the little document problem at this country club.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:12 pm@14 Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:09 pm
So, the Biden administration asking a foreign country to do “something” what would help the Democratic party A-OK with you?
Here’s my main thrust with this: define a standard and stick with it. If that standard changes because it’s a different party, then you really don’t have a strong credibility to point out true malfeasance.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:16 pmSad!!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:30 pmThere has now been enough information gathered to consider criminal referrals for “multiple individuals,” per Cheney.
Dana (1225fc) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:38 pmFIFY
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:38 pmI just did.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:38 pmThe reevaluation of our relationship with the KSA is a legitimate foreign policy function of the executive.
Enlisting a foreign power to help take down a chief political rival puts a president’s person ambition above his country and is also illegal.
caca del toro.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:39 pmIn one sentence yet:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:41 pmSupreme Court FAILS TO FIND LEAKER.
Sadder!!
Be-robed bureaucrats befuddled.
Film at 11.
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:42 pmDid Biden pull a “do me a favor” with the Saudi royal family, asking them to investigate some sort of malfeasance by Trump (or DeSantis) in exchange for weapons or something?
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:09 pm
are russian favors better than Saudi ones?
FBI offered British spy Christopher Steele $1MILLION cash to prove his ‘Dirty Dossier’ allegations that Trump was colluding with Russia to win the election – but he COULDN’T, top bureau analyst tells federal court
JF (755b02) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:44 pmThat sure seems like what is commonly called a “bribe”, JF.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:47 pmWas Obama involved in that effort?
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:50 pmone sentence that clearly didn’t go through any sort of proofreading. there should be a comma after “referred by him to the Court”.
aphrael (4c4719) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:51 pmPaul, what was the purpose of asking for the delay of only one month? Why not ask for three months ? A year?
Usually a negotiation starts at the extremes and resolves itself somewhere between those extremes.
Was Biden asking for a month and hoping for two weeks?
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 10/13/2022 @ 12:57 pmFor some reason I thought Biden asking for an extra month was part of the CNN story.
Here is a link to the letter:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fe6mZ1gXgAEqbPm?format=jpg&name=large
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:02 pmThe not previously seen (by me, at least) footage today of Pelosi’s desperate efforts during the siege to get help to the Capitol immediately was jarring.
Dana (1225fc) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:18 pm“Here’s my main thrust with this: define a standard and stick with it.”
Your “standard” is ridiculous. Any popular presidential initiative could be argued to help his party.
Davethulhu (43df02) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:31 pmI don’t know what to think. The Saudis made an assertion and Adm Kirby responded that cuts be delayed until the scheduled OPEC meeting, when all voting members can vote. It could be taken whichever way your political inclinations lean.
The timing of the Saudi’s unilateral production cuts, at this point in the election cycle, has a political tinge. It’s as if they’re trying to affect the outcome of an election, and Biden walked right into it with his earlier efforts to less domestic exploration and production.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:34 pm“So, what kind of leverage did Joe Biden have with the Kingdom to pull off this failed quid pro quo? Well, it’s curious that on Wednesday it was reported that since Biden’s pleas were rejected, the White House is “examining” all aspects of our country’s relationship with the Saudis, including arms sales.
“There is a range of interests and values that are implicated in our relationship with that country,” Biden’s national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, said Wednesday. “The President will examine all of that. But one question he’s going to ask is: Is the nature of the relationship serving the interest and values of the United States and what changes would make it better serve the interests and values?”
This sounds suspiciously like Joe Biden is threatening an ally with cutting off military aid unless they do something to help Biden politically here at home. Quid pro quo.”
—- Matt Margolis
Appears to be impeachable.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:44 pm@31 Davethulhu (43df02) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:31 pm
Democrats in Congress set an impeachment precedent over attempts to manipulate national elections via foreign-policy strongarming. (phrased gratuitously stolen from HotAir).
It’s a precedent that I’ve warned everyone about.
Democrats. Be prepared to reap what you’ve sowed.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:46 pmHoly shit!
Democrats are really wanting Trump to run again.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/jan-6-hearing-livestream-10-13-2022/index.html
If you want to raise Trump’s profile, subpoena’ing him to testify will do just that.
He can grandstand and speak as if he’s at a rally, and the committee won’t be able to stop him.
This isn’t court, where a Judge could hold a witness in contempt for a non-responsive response to the question.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:54 pm“Democrats in Congress set an impeachment precedent over attempts to manipulate national elections via foreign-policy strongarming.”
What foreign policy was Trump advancing?
Davethulhu (43df02) — 10/13/2022 @ 1:57 pm@19. So, the Biden administration inhibiting the American petroleum industry to do “something” that hurts the United States and aids the Russian, Saudi and Chinese economies is A-OK with you?
FIFY.
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:10 pmSo, the Biden administration asking a foreign country to do “something” what would help the Democratic party A-OK with you?
I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! Only Democrats drive cars!
You might also wish to consider, besides the American consumer, that OPEC also gave a boost to Russian oil profits.
Bah! Who am I kidding? You would need a brain to consider things with.
nk (4c4043) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:20 pmThey never mentioned that there was such a vote. (because that would have interfered with the notion that Trump wanted the riot and possibly because they ware emphasizing how many Republicans did not support his stolen election claims
There was a passing reference to a hope (Nancy Pelosi on video Jan 6) that Arizona would remain the only objection. Reality works its way in
They played quotes of people saying what Kevin McCarthy said about what he said to Trump during the assault on the Capitol and what Kevin McCarthy said on the floor of Congress and in a January 11 2021 meeting of Republicans but gave not a hint that Kevin McCarthy soon made up with Tru,p and is now on friendly terms with him.
They did play Mitch McConnell’s condemnation I think but gave it less play.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:21 pmArabs are as shifty as the sands they live on. Your homework assignment for today: what drove Nasser’s Egypt to turn to Russia…
But then, lest you forget:
“Nobody fvcks with a Biden.” – Squinty McBlunderbuss
Such a frigging IDIOT.
“I blow with wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy.” – Captain Renault [Claude Rains] ‘Casablanca’ 1942
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:25 pm@Dana @JVW: I made a boo boo on my last post, so you can ignore as it contains cuss word.
PG-13 version below:
Holy moley!
Democrats are really wanting Trump to run again.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/jan-6-hearing-livestream-10-13-2022/index.html
If you want to raise Trump’s profile, subpoena’ing him to testify will do just that.
He can grandstand and speak as if he’s at a rally, and the committee won’t be able to stop him.
This isn’t court, where a Judge could hold a witness in contempt for a non-responsive response to the question.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:30 pmThey inadvertently revealed that Mitch McConnell (and Mike Pence) got them back to the Capitol. Nancy Pelosi was hearing that it might take several daays to reassemble there, and she, evidently, was thinking of assembling in a different location (Congress can do that, something people may not be familiar with. It was done often by the Continental Congress during the American Re0olution and of course the capital of the United States was moved from New York in 1789, to Philadelphia )in the 17990s) to the District of Columbia in 1800.
But in the meantime somebody got told them the Capitol could be ready soon.
Who was saying it would days? Who stopped t? It would seem that McConnell did not want to leave the Capitol. I know Lindsey Graham was insisting.
Nancy Pelosi did not understand the reference to gas masks right away and was shocked at the idea.
This was on video of her (and Chuck Schumer) attempting, or succeeding, in placing calls for help. CBS reported it was shot by her daughter, Alexandra Pelosi, a one-time documentarian, on her cell phone.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:31 pmVideo of the hearing, with captions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQvuBoLBuC0
Tomorrow I may be able to post a transcript.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:31 pmWe had fifty years to get out from under OPEC’s yoke. But then Charles Koch would not be fifteenth wealthiest men in the world.
We keep on, and keep on, and keep on, giving our domestic capacity to rich jerkoffs whose only loyalties are to their bank accounts. We even elect a couple or three of the assholes to the Presidency and Vice Presidency.
nk (4c4043) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:32 pmAt 27 minutes, Liz Cheney puts up a statement by ajudge that high ranking members of Congress are afraid to say that Trump lost the election..
I think there are differences between various committee members.
There was this attempt to hide what Kevin McCarthy now says.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:33 pm@36
Anti-corruption.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:36 pmUnfortunately, I don’t think the average American is much concerned about January 6th.
More than one person has said to me, “Trump isn’t even the President anymore.”
I think inflation is the big concern right now. Biden and company should have seen this coming a long time ago.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:39 pm@38
Oh… so long as Biden has a colorable reason, aka it benefits American consumers, it’s A-OK??
Good to know.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:39 pmThat statement about E Jean Carroll on Truth Social was from yesterday – he did tweet about Jan 6 (standard talking points of his) today, although he wrote about other things too:
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109162944419953126
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109162884494107435
Like the committee said, he’s still claiming he won the election
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:42 pmBiden is said to be against the Saudis because they may have lied to him, aand to him this is siding with Russia in the war. The one month delay it’s been said, would have taken the Saudi Russsia agreement past Election Day, November 8.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:44 pmNancy Pelosi was hearing that it might take several daays to reassemble there, and she, evidently, was thinking of assembling in a different location
… like the Vatican. Where podiums are gold and jewel encrusted and spumoni passes for ice cream.
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:46 pm“Anti-corruption.”
lmao
Davethulhu (43df02) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:49 pmTrump merely asked Zelensky (on this) to tell him if it was true that Biden had fired a Ukrainian prosecutor to protect his son.
The truth was it was not, especially because Biden lied about being instrumental in firing the prosecutor!
It was another of his tall tales, twisted by Vladimir Putin (I assume).
Trump did cut off arms sales, but he thought he was keeping that a secret from the Ukrainians, and he did that because Putin (acting through informants of Giuliani) had posisoned is mind against the Ukrainian government.,
When it got confirmed to the Ukrainians that there was ahold, U.S. Ambassador to the EU Gordon SUndland got the idea of cnnecting the two things..
When it was put to him by Senator Ron Johnson, (R-Wis.) Trump denied that he had any intention of connecting the two things.
When Trump asked Zelensky to do him a favor, he meant just that, a favor.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:52 pm@46. That’s because it isn’t about Americans but about party politics.
They’re terrified Trump will run again – and win. And if he does– he will. And you know who they’ll have to thank? The low ratings of The Joe Show.
The only thing that may save him is taking The Big Dump; flushing Kamala a la the Eagleton Exit and hoisting Hillary aboard as VEEP as the seasoned backstop. One broad in a pantsuit looks the same as another. 😉 No primaries, no fundraising, no campaigning, a resume that makes Kamala’s look like a sheet of single-ply TP and a proven vote getter [remember, she got more of the popular vote that The Donald and it was only the EC that tagged and bagged her.] And she’s ready- maintaining just enough media presence as is.
DCSCA (651d2e) — 10/13/2022 @ 2:57 pm@52
lmao.
In Trump’s case, the “victim” of the quid pro quo (Zelensky) emphatically denied that there was any suggestion of a quid pro quo. In Biden’s case, the Saudi is formally accusing the US of just that.
Reap it Dave. Reap it good.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:01 pmOh… so long as Biden has a colorable reason, aka it benefits American consumers, it’s A-OK??
It’s more than A-Ok. And it’s more than colorable. It’s the best reason.
It probably would have benefited our European allies even more than us, but I don’t even think of them when I drive past a gas station. And let me ask you, is it the election you think of when you drive past a gas station?
nk (b81834) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:02 pm@56
Oh, absolutely.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:03 pmNot to get personal, but it’s twice in two days that you have evinced that when some foreign cesspool slaps us around, we should just stand there and take it.
nk (b81834) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:04 pmSigh. Every time I want to contribute, I see stuff like this.
So classy. But also pretty much standard.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:10 pm@58
**theme song time***
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtNrx1c3Xh8
Forgive me for worrying about a nuclear holocaust or another world war.
But, hey, those Ukrainians and conscripted Russian soldiers dying is of no concern of ours… amirite? They’re all disposable.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:12 pm58. Heh! I could not find it with Ctrl+F, which means it’s in my blocking script, and there’s only one person in my blocking script, and his dreams are not of women, in pantsuits or otherwise, but of things completely different.
nk (b81834) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:17 pmProfound quote from Nick Catoggio (formerly Allahpundit):
“Every populist revolution ends with pigs and men indistinguishable from each other. This one is well on its way.”
Well worth reading.
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/everyone-loves-a-freak/
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:18 pmBut, hey, those Ukrainians and conscripted Russian soldiers dying is of no concern of ours… amirite? They’re all disposable.
Tell that to the Russians.
nk (b81834) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:19 pmI’ve updated the post with Trump’s Truth Social response to today’s hearing:
Dana (1225fc) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:22 pmThe question I have is why the committee didn’t ask or subpoena Trump and Pence months ago. Sure, there would’ve been a lot of haggling over executive privilege, but better that than today’s Grand Gesture.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:32 pm@63
It’s horrible.
Hence why, unlike you, I’m not the one who’s cavalier about these people’s lives here and it’s amazing that you (and others) won’t even consider what a peace plan could look like while considering what it would take for Putin to accept such a deal without resorting to world war, or likely nuclear exchange.
I know where you stand. You want Putin to suffer total defeat at all cost.
I just don’t think you’ve thought through all the hypothetical costs.
I’m willing to be 100% wrong, but my real hope in this debate is that some measured peace plan, whereby no one is happy, is seriously considered.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:35 pm@65
Because it’s never really been about conducting a good faith committee. It’s always been about exacting a partisan political price to Democrat’s advantage.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:36 pm“In Biden’s case, the Saudi is formally accusing the US of just that.”
lol
“Reap it Dave. Reap it good.”
Oh, I cannot wait until the 2023-2024 House spends its entire legislative session holding hearings on every imagined grievance and sending up impeachment proceedings. Right now you have to be somewhat immersed in right wingnuttery to be aware of this stuff, but 2023 will let everyone see how unhinged the Trump Republicans are.
Davethulhu (43df02) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:41 pmWhembly,
What makes you think that Putin could be trusted with any such agreement?
Dana (1225fc) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:42 pmWhy didn’t the Unselect Committee ask me to testify months ago? Why did they wait until the very end, the final moments of their last meeting? Because the Committee is a total “BUST” that has only served to further divide our Country which, by the way, is doing very badly – A laughing stock all over the World?
The Unselect Committee knowingly failed to examine the massive voter fraud which took place during the 2020 Presidential Election – The reason for what took place on January 6th.
Notice Trump’s modus operandi–
1) call names (“Unselect”)
2) all caps (“BUST”)
3) hyperbole (“laughing stock all over the World”, “massive voter fraud”).
All that’s missing in this one are exclamation points.
Is it any wonder that rubes are attracted to him and his comic book portrayal of politics?
That January 6th defendant’s lawyer was right:
A lot of these defendants—and I’m going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully—but they’re all f*cking short-bus people. These are people with brain damage, they’re fucking retarded, they’re on the goddamn spectrum.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:48 pmOops. I neglected to dock the other f word. Dana, can you please fix it and take my comment out of moderation?
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:50 pmThe Washington Post article has five “takeaways” from today’s hearings.
For me, the most signficant is the third:
(Link omitted.)
So he can’t plead delusion.
By issuing a subpoena, the committee is giving Trump a chance to defend himself, publicly. I think the loser will chicken out.
Jim Miller (85fd03) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:51 pm@69
He’s the head of state.
Assuming if there’s some sort of peace agreement, it doesn’t mean he gets everything he wants. I would hazard to guess that China would play an outsized role in convincing Russia to take the off ramp and “settle” on a peace plan.
If it were me, the agreement would stipulate that Ukraine would be fast-tracked to join NATO…that way, any further aggression by Putin would invoke NATO’s Article 5 (the think he very much DON’T want).
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:56 pmI know where you stand. You want Putin to suffer total defeat at all cost.
That would not undo the killings, the rapes, the tortures, the kidnappings, and the wanton destruction, but it would at least show that we have a vestige of backbone left (although I prefer that we’re still too hot a fire to casually play with).
nk (b81834) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:05 pmAnd let me ask you, is it the election you think of when you drive past a gas station?
And go up and down every aisle in the grocery store, bypassing the costly beef, expensive eggs and glaring at the empty shelves w/t ‘sorry for the inconvenience’ stickers where what you wanted is available due to supply chain issues. Not to mention the collapsing housing market and rising electric and utility bills.
Yeah. Thanks Joe. We’ll think of all that– and more on Election Day. Because, Jack, ‘nobody fvcks with a Biden.’
Bend over, pal.
DCSCA (a63183) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:11 pm> He’s the head of state.
Doesn’t mean he can be trusted to abide by the terms of an agreement which he signs.
aphrael (4c4719) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:12 pm@65. The question I have is why the committee…
The question I have is why the committee, in Washington, DC cancelled the day Hurricane Ian reaching Florida? Too much media competition from God and Mother Nature on the other channels, Lizzy? Poor baby- CSPAN had your back.
DCSCA (a63183) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:15 pmAssuming if there’s some sort of peace agreement, it doesn’t mean he gets everything he wants.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 3:56 pm
When a country invades its neighbor, it shouldn’t get to keep any of the territory it invaded for the sake of a peace deal.
That is a recipe for more invasions around the world.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:16 pmWhy would Putin make an agreement with an entity whose existence he denies?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:22 pm“Every populist revolution ends with pigs and men indistinguishable from each other. This one is well on its way.”
Conservative ideological whine; bitter dregs. And some oinkers are suckered to pay for the same old pig slop.
DCSCA (a63183) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:25 pm@79
What a thoughtful and substantial reply.
Have you ever read Nick Catoggio (Allahpundit), DCSCA?
Our host has called him the best writer on the internet, and I tend to agree.
You don’t earn any esteem by dismissing him so casually.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:30 pmThe GOP had a chance for a 9/11-style bipartisan committee, but Trump ixnayed, so this is what you get instead of something more authoritative.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:35 pmQuestion, whembly.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:39 pmHow does a Russian dictator negotiate when he doesn’t recognize the right to exist of the party on the other side of the table?
“The [January 6th] committee has focused on extremist groups such as the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers that played an outsize role in storming the Capitol. But their violence, coordination and resolution were not typical of the broader crowd. No firearms were found on those who invaded the Capitol. It was not a coup attempt. And even if you believe it was, Mr. Trump was not leading it. For someone supposedly bent on overthrowing the government, Mr. Trump did an awful lot of television-watching and surprisingly little seizing of broadcast centers, mobilizing of commando units and issuing of emergency decrees…”
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2022/10/the-january-6th-committee-has-focused.html
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:48 pm@83
How does any despot in history every negotiated in the past?
Paul…
@Dana…
How far are you willing to go to defeat Russia.
Tell me what that looks like.
At least nk was very honest – he’s willing to wage a world war, even with nukes, against Russia.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:57 pmThey don’t negotiate-they go for total victory.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:58 pmThey may not succeed, but few despots are satisfied with a negotiated “peace in our time” solution. They always want more.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/13/2022 @ 5:05 pmThat’s up to Putin, whembly, I haven’t seen him negotiate in good faith or honor agreements, although he has been letting the Ukrainian grain get through, so far. This isn’t up to us or Ukraine. Putin started this and he’s the only who can stop it, and I’ve seen no inclination of him doing so.
Sadat was able to do it, but he was willing to negotiate with the Jewish enemy. It didn’t hurt that the Israel had the strongest military in the ME.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/13/2022 @ 5:12 pm“Whether you like it or don’t like it, bear with it, my beauty,” Putin said, on or about February 8, 2022.
How can the Ukrainians forgive what he did to them? How can anyone forget Mariupol?
nk (bf3f7b) — 10/13/2022 @ 5:24 pm@81. Squeal with delight, norcal! 😉
DCSCA (e61aca) — 10/13/2022 @ 6:13 pm@85. Just have’em revisit Acheson’s scenario gamed out 60 years ago this week.
Hoping “cooler heads will prevail” is hardly a comforting scenario worth risking any nuclear exchange — especially over an old, used rug like Ukraine.
DCSCA (e61aca) — 10/13/2022 @ 6:19 pmFor someone supposedly bent on overthrowing the government, Mr. Trump did an awful lot of television-watching and surprisingly little seizing of broadcast centers
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:48 pm
And doing nothing to call off the mob. He was hoping Pence would be intimidated into overturning the election.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 6:26 pmMeanwhile: mass shooting in Raleigh tonight- 5 dead so far; Parkland mass shooter dodges death penalty for multiple school shooting murders.
Ukraine is NOT an American problem.
‘Physician, heal thyself.’
DCSCA (e61aca) — 10/13/2022 @ 6:32 pmFor someone supposedly bent on overthrowing the government, Mr. Trump did an awful lot of television-watching and surprisingly little seizing of broadcast centers
Batteries in his remote died.
Video killed the radio star;
DCSCA (e61aca) — 10/13/2022 @ 6:36 pmIn my mind and in my car;
We can’t rewind, we’ve gone too far;
Pictures came and broke your heart;
Put the blame on VCR… 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRXeBKys-Sw
DCSCA (e61aca) — 10/13/2022 @ 6:38 pmIs Ukraine worth a nuclear war? Watch Moses lead the way to Doomsday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJd6pFUT6s&t=1s
DCSCA (e61aca) — 10/13/2022 @ 6:58 pmBroadcast centers are not Hollywood starlets, you see. That’s where he was out of his wheelhouse. He could have “seized” Hollywood starlets. He could have seized them real good.
nk (bf3f7b) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:15 pmnk @98
No doubt!
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:27 pmI’m fairly certain that if Trump runs again, he will win the nomination. There are enough of his die-hard supporters for that, and the other Republicans vying for the nomination will be too selfish to coalesce around a single alternative candidate to Trump.
However, I’m also fairly certain he will lose in the general election. The people who are tired of his drama outnumber his fans.
So, how about it, Donny? Do you want to go down in history as twice impeached and a two-time loser? If this proposition weren’t harmful for the country, I would almost relish it.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:35 pmI see DCSCA reached for the Benzedrine instead of the Ovaltine.
Appalled (2184c4) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:37 pmAppalled (2184c4) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:37 pm
He’s reaching for something.
One of these days I’m going to block him, as others have done. His responses are often juvenile, although occasionally he can write a substantive post, or even be funny.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:54 pm@101. Ovaltine? That’s Joey’s beverage- spiked with Putin Pee, Appalled.
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:55 pm– he’s willing to wage a world war, even with nukes, against Russia.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/13/2022 @ 4:57 pm
Your wording implies that you believe I was not being honest. And yet, all I did was to ask you: “What makes you think that Putin could be trusted with any such agreement?” This implying dishonesty on my part is not just misdirected but rude as well.
Dana (1225fc) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:56 pm@102. Projection. Keep squealing! You paid for the privilege.
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:56 pmParkland mass shooter dodges death penalty for multiple school shooting murders.
That Dahmer Netflix series probably has the jury hanger thinking a mess hall shanking will come faster than the gas chamber/firing squad.
urbanleftbehind (153056) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:58 pmProjection. Keep squealing! You paid for the privilege.
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:56 pm
Thank you for making my point about your juvenile comments.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:06 pmThat Dahmer Netflix series probably has the jury hanger thinking a mess hall shanking will come faster than the gas chamber/firing squad.
urbanleftbehind (153056) — 10/13/2022 @ 7:58 pm
Now that’s some three-level chess type of justice, ULB!
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:08 pmThis isn’t up to us or Ukraine. Putin started this and he’s the only who can stop it, and I’ve seen no inclination of him doing so.
Then why keep financing the fools runmning Ukraine; of course, Bugs Moran could stop it. Hell, he was whistling past the graveyard hours before the assault pretending it would never happen, remember?
2 days before Putin invaded, Ukraine’s president said he thought a full-scale attack wasn’t going to happen
Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky signaled as recently as Tuesday that he didn’t expect Russia to mount a full-scale invasion. In the wake of Vladimir Putin’s sweeping attack Thursday morning local time, those words appear very distant. “The Ukrainian side believes that a broad escalation on the part of Russia will not happen,” the presidential release read. That belief was not shared by Western leaders at the time, who had long asserted that Putin had already decided to invade.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-predicted-no-attack-2-days-before-russia-invaded-2022-2#:~:text=Ukrainian%20President%20Zelensky%20said%20as%20recently%20as%20Monday,intelligence%20has%20long%20predicted%20a%20large-scale%20attack%2C%20however.
Bugs can declare a ceasefire; a truce. The stupid thing is to keep attacking assets already under Putin’s control- like that bridge; to piss him off, demanding western help and then calling for NATO/the West to launch a nuclear assault on Russia. If this guy was a pitcher, he’d be pulled from the ball game by a savvy big league manager. But then, Joey’s always been minor league material.
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:13 pm@107. And thank you for confirming you get what you pay for!
“You can’t cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump.” – Larson E. Whipsnade [W.C. Fields] ‘ You Can’t Cheat An Honest Man’ 1939
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:18 pm@106. That Dahmer Netflix series probably has the jury hanger thinking a mess hall shanking will come faster than the gas chamber/firing squad.
Re-victimizing the victims families. For life, knowing the turd wil llive and be fed, clothed and doctored on their dime. More validation that the justice system is a farce. Have the Dancing Alitos found the leaker?
‘A rope. A tree. And justice for thee!’
Film at 11.
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:24 pmThe GOP should have a voice vote on the Presidential candidate at their convention “everyone for Trump say aye” of course there will be a crescendo of fanatics, “everyone opposed say nay” strong response but not up to Trump levels of fervor. Then declare “they nays have it” and bang the gavel, hit the exit running.
Trump won’t get a truly fair shake at the JAN6 committee. They’ll spend most of their time preening for the cameras making statements not asking questions then gavel him down when he starts to gain headway… or has no one ever watched a congressional hearing before?
steveg (c64e2b) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:45 pmThis is a great strategy by Democrats though. Wound Trump so bad the GOP cannot nominate him, but at the same time die hard Trump fans will dig in even harder… all 5-7 million or so. Which is a big enough number that no GOP candidate can win if all of those die hard Trump folks sit out 2024. So whoever the GOP nominee is has to get Trumps blessing and has to somehow co-op all the fanatics hot button issues and win them over. Excellent job of making GOP own their fringe while the equally looney Democrat fringe flies under the radar
Yeah, DCCCP is yet one more slightly maladjusted internet performer. He has his stale routine and not much else. When Appalled (and anyone really) tries to substantively engage him, he throws out a tired non-sequitor (wink, wink) and pivots reflexively back to his schtick. Unfortunately he can’t go an inch beyond his talking points, nostalgia, Biden bile, wistful movie quotes, NASA sentimentality, and spastic Putin fluffing. His life mission is to be an irritant….a gadfly buzzing from post to post….an annoying TV commercial or jingle on an infinite loop. He’s the Joe Isuzu of Patterico and…proud of it. He’ll squat because he can.
I guess we get what we pay for. The Dispatch is calling…
AJ_Liberty (15d88c) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:52 pm@112. It’s purely a political ploy before the midterms; believe the subpoena expires w/t new Congress in January anyway.
How’s the October hunt for Hunter going- AG Merrick Garland drop the nickel yet?
“Listen, I’m a politician, which means I’m a cheat and a liar, and when I’m not kissing babies, I’m stealing their lollipops. But it also means I keep my options open.” – Jeffrey Pelt [Richard Jordan] ‘ The Hunt For Red October’ 1990
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:55 pm@113. Projection… But hmmm. ‘Now there’s no need for that!!’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-95QqBXLG2I
😉
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 8:59 pmSo classy. But also pretty much standard.
Dress for success.
_______
And let me ask you, is it the election you think of when you drive past a gas station?
Gas station, grocery store… howzabout the post office: the post office is raising the price on Forever stamps on January 22nd 2023. Not only are they going up in January, but will do so every 6 months! The price will increase from 60¢ to 63¢ starting January 22nd.
Attaboy, Joey.
DCSCA (4de7d2) — 10/13/2022 @ 9:28 pmWhen are they going to subpoena the FBI for trying to bribe a Russian affiliated stooge a million bucks to come up with dirt on Trump and overturn the 2016 election?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/13/2022 @ 9:30 pmThe polls show little movement 2% and that in favor of trump from the hearings. Over at cnn the liberals who haven’t been fired yet are upset about the people who are not as upset with trump as they are. They can’t understand why more people hate the vermin in the news media more then hate trump despite all of their attacks on him. It was for their own good that the fbi offered steel one million dollers to bribe people to verify the phoney pee tape steel dossier. Voters might be confused and not vote for biden if nbc reported on the contents of hunter biden’s laptop so nbc only reported on the lie that it was russian disinformation. As in the movie absence of malice they can’t prove their wasn’t collusion between russia and trump and when the report came out that their wasn’t media said thats ancient history so we will concentrate on possible obstruction. And the media wonders why the people consider them vermin!
asset (33a292) — 10/13/2022 @ 9:32 pmWe have 10%-20% stagflation, gas prices rising astronomically with the government shutting down more ways to gain energy, people are dying due to fentanyl and a multi-million man invasion on the southern border, the FBI is bringing guns to threaten to shoot pastors for alleged assaults that weren’t even locally prosecuted, the government is hiring tens of thousands of more IRS agents to persecute average Americans, and our left has gone completely batshart socialist, but you guys want to play Global Thermonuclear War like you’re Matthew Broderick.
I guess that’s better than facing reality.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/13/2022 @ 9:42 pm@116 I like many other voter think its too bad about high gas prices and if the supreme court had not voted to allow states to ban abortions we could have shown our disapproval with the biden administration instead of now having to vote to give the rethugliKKKan party a post natal abortion. Its too bad the court decision came so late in the primary season so that we could vote for democrats who would “deal” with rethugliKKKans instead of the wimp liberal “when they go low we go high” snowflakes that are running against the rethugs.
asset (33a292) — 10/13/2022 @ 9:43 pmHas the committee been unfair to the many Trump administration alums whose sworn testimony has cast him in such a terrible light?
Has the committee been unfair in playing tape of Trump speaking by his own volition? Was it unfair to demonstrate that he publicly made various assertions that his own aides had told him were false yet he asserted those falsehoods as though he had evidence to back them up?
How do you imagine Trump would explain away his flagrant lies? What would be an honorable explanation for his tweet bashing his own VP when he knew the raging mob was out for blood? How would he justify resisting entreaties to call off the mob for hours, and then finally telling the rioters “We love you, you’re very special”?
Concerning his unlawful retention of classified documents, Trump has made a variety of public statements that are by turns crazy, self-contradictory, manifestly false, and self-incriminating. Is it unfair that Trump makes himself look so bad?
There’s a reason why Trump’s lawyers typically haven’t wanted him to testify under oath: because he’s congenitally incapable of avoiding perjury, self-contradiction, or self-incrimination. When he had to answer questions under oath, he pleaded the 5th almost 450 times.
What earthly reason is there to believe that he could provide a plausible, reasonable justification for his actions with the fairest committee conceivable — not one dedicated to giving him cover?
Radegunda (5825d1) — 10/13/2022 @ 9:55 pmI guess we get what we pay for. The Dispatch is calling…
Collect.
Comedy gold.
DCSCA (2ccd27) — 10/13/2022 @ 10:26 pmWell said, Radegunda. As usual.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/13/2022 @ 10:35 pmIts a TV show, not an actual hearing. Most if not all congressional hearings are about congressional people talking and posturing, no actual listening, maybe some dim hearing in the sense that there is audio occuring out there other than the sound of their own voice, which if contrary to the narrative, reflexively triggers the gavel or a turned off microphone. Times up.
Put another way, its a Kardashianesque TV show where 30 seconds in, anyone sane and remotely fair begins to hate the entire self absorbed cast except for maybe the suddenly sympathetic looking SOB that got summoned to get the henpecking. Congressional hearings are almost never a fair committee, much less the fairest conceivable. Congressional hearings are usually almost entirely political theater and its clear to most people watching that plausible, and reasonable justifications would be embarrassing and are not allowed.
I realize why Trumps lawyers typically don’t want him testifying under oath. All of the reasons described sound like malpractice level reasons that scream do not have the client testify, even though collectively are not definitive proof of criminal behavior.
steveg (c64e2b) — 10/14/2022 @ 12:29 amLook at Trumps tweets. Products of a 99% disorganized mind mixed with a pinch of stable genius. Prone to self-contradiction, plus prone to self incrimination, yields what could read as perjury. Yeah. For god’s sake don’t let him answer any questions. he’ll talk himself into being drawn and quartered
@125. Cut to the chase: who know the committee was French!?!
Storm the castle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey0wvGiAH9g&t=3s
Featuring the legendary cameo by Joy Behar– which catapulted her to stardom!
“Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!”
DCSCA (2ccd27) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:11 amBeing a captive audience to bloviating politicians under a “witness” subpoena has to be a violation of First Amendment rights.
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:27 amhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4VbI5zcB8Ac
BuDuh (eaef9b) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:31 amIf the Republicans retake the House, will a Select Committee to Investigate the Conspiracy to Set Up Select Committees to Investigate Donald Trump call the members of this committee as witnesses, do you think?
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:31 am119… unicorn farts and nuclear war, Rob.
Good times good times
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:32 amAnd, yes, the Democrats have made, and will continue to make, a lot of lemonade from the Orange.
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:33 amBTW, I am 100% on Trump’s side in the E. Jean Carroll case.
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:39 amTL:DR, I think she’s a nutjob who sex-life for the past quarter-century has consisted solely of fantasies, to one of which she put Trump’s name for the sake of her book.
…and NeverTrump will be there – on all fours – lapping that swill up.
Rest assured…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:39 am“I think inflation is the big concern right now. Biden and company should have seen this coming a long time ago.”
Oh, I think it’s safe to say EVERYONE should’ve anticipated what the result of feckless policies would be. NeverTrump had other, more important business to attend to. This same scenario applies to every misstep, every critical error the Biden Admin has made.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:57 amNeverTrump: A Sh*tstain on the Soul of America.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2022 @ 5:59 amReturning to the subject of this thread —
The 1-6 Committee is done and was done months ago. It was a very nice grand jury presentation. it was a decent TV show, but got repetative towards the end.
The big reveal — a Trump subpoena — seems like the cliffhanger for that show that’s about to be cancelled but hasn’t got the word yet. I actually agree with the Trump — the only way he should appear is live. He has no reason to trust the Committee’s editors to present his case fairly. Of course, should he go before the Committee, he should simply Take the 5th and go home. It’d be foolish for him to do otherwise.
The Committee has to know that there is very little time and that Trump can run out the string to the next Congress, which will likely be run by Toady er Speaker McCarthy, not Pelosi. I’m not impressed and I am part of their demographic.
Appalled (6eeb36) — 10/14/2022 @ 7:03 am@104
No, no… absolutely not was my intention.
My apologies if it came off that way.
I want for Putin to lose. I want a lot of things to happen so that this doesn’t happen again. I don’t want precedents to crystalize that ‘nuclear blackmail’ works.
Mostly though, I’m rooting for Ukraine here… as no matter what warts Ukraine may have, they’re no doubt a victim here, and Putin/Russia is absolutely the sole the aggressor.
I want a lot of things to happen, you want a lot of things to happen.
I just don’t think we should be too cavalier in ignoring that Putin/Russia also has a vote as to how this ends.
So, to answer your question: “What makes you think that Putin could be trusted with any such agreement?” The right answer, and in all cases, you don’t trust them. That’s why the framework of such agreement needs something that bites. IN this case, I’d advocate for Ukraine to be fast-tracked into NATO, as that should stop future Russian aggressions.
I ask you, and others if they’re willing, define your desired outcome and then articulate how far you’re willing to go?
Is it: status-quo? Sanctions and propping up Ukraine military?
Is it some more? NATO troops on the grounds? Naval fleets targeted? Assassinations?
And while we’re debating the pros and cons generally here, keep in mind that there are lives at stake, and who’s in the crosshair whether the war stays between Ukraine and Russia or spills over into another world war.
Also, think about the history of wars… World War I arguably started with a spark, with an assassination that ignited that conflagration.
In short: Lets have a debate of not only our desired outcome (Russia loses badly), but what does a negotiated peace look like (both sides loses something, but gains something).
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 7:07 am@135
C’mon Colonel… that’s not helpful.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 7:14 am138… I’ll take the $1M, I can prove it.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2022 @ 8:19 amKeepin’ it real…
https://instapundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/IMG_4570-600×586.jpg
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2022 @ 8:26 am@139 Sure, but actually make that case.
But, on a discussion forum it’s incumbent to all of us to persuade those of our arguments. Name calling those who disagree with you doesn’t help, and frankly makes it harder for others who may feel like you do to see our perspectives.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 8:27 amO.o
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1580712646961025024
If I’m understanding correctly, Pelosi made more direct threats of violence on January 6, 2021 than Trump did.
No wonder we’re finding out this out just now.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 8:40 amHa, ha, ha! Attagirl, Mrs. Pelosi!
If I’m understanding correctly, Pelosi made more direct threats of violence on January 6, 2021 than Trump did.
They worked, didn’t they?
Ha, ha, ha!
That brave he-man Trump!
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 8:54 amIs it:
Status-quo? Yes
Sanctions and propping up Ukraine military? Yes
NATO troops on the grounds? Only if Putin attacks a NATO country, or if there is spillover from a nuclear/biologic/chemical (NBC) attack by Russia.
Naval fleets targeted? Yes, if Russia conducts a NBC attack on Ukraine.
Assassinations? Yes.
Desired outcome: Russia returns to pre-2014 borders.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:01 amThe Cuban Missile Crisis began 60 years ago today.
On October 14, 1962, an American U-2 spy plane piloted by Major Richard Heyser making a high-altitude pass over Cuba photographed a Soviet SS-4 medium-range ballistic missile being assembled for installation.
Russians are big on anniversaries and dates.
And the weak, brain-damaged Irish-Catholic POTUS of 2022 ain’t the sober, brainy Irish-Catholic POTUS of 1962.
If it comes to it– this time, Russia won’t blink.
DCSCA (29a116) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:15 amWhat a day, Dana, a commenter just called you “A Sh*tstain on the Soul of America”. Words cannot express.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:19 amWhembly,
I’m sure you understand that Haiku’s remarks are a response to the constant distain expressed towards Trump supporters on here for the past 6 years that has become lauded and cheered even when it violates ToS.
Yes that’s the world on this interweb location. But it isn’t the real world.
NJRob (9d63bb) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:38 amThen you have trolls like birdy who lie and try to get people banned because debating facts isn’t in the cards.
But I expect no less from a guy that uses multiple aliases to hide himself and pretend to be multiple people.
NJRob (9d63bb) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:40 amStatus-quo? Yes
Will you unkill the dead? Unrape the women and children? Yes, the animals are raping children! Unmaim the wounded?
This is not a border skirmish with only military casualties and war materiel losses. This is a war of terror unleashed on an entire population.
We supply the Ukrainians with everything they need to turn the Russian hand that reached for them into hamburger. And we keep supplying them so they can do it again.
Even if it does raise the price of a bucket of KFC.
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:44 amNice smear, Rob. Consider this reply a categorical rejection of your comment.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:46 am@147
Here’s how I see that.
Both sides need to stop doing that. (I’ve been guilty of that as well, so this reflects on me too).
Those on the #NeverTrump camp (and I realize there’s different factions here), ought to not be so dismissive when those NOT in the #NeverTrump camp try to point out things like election irregularities, and stop reflectively hand-waving these concerns by embracing the whole “Election-Denier™” schtick.
Likewise, those of us who are upset at the #NeverTrump camp needs to embrace that these folks simply have a different perspective, and thus vote accordingly and they shouldn’t be blamed for every-bad-thing that happens under the current administration.
You cannot persuade those on the opposite side if you don’t extend the grace to at least consider your opponent’s viewpoints.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:49 amIf I read DCSCA correctly, he thinks Putin will use nukes and it’s America’s fault.
Appalled (c82998) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:51 amHaiku has not contributed anything here, other than insults and nasty cracks, for maybe five years, now.
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:53 amIf I read DCSCA correctly, he thinks Putin will use nukes and it’s America’s fault.
No, you did not read him correctly. He thinks people are not paying enough attention to him and he wants you to get them to.
nk (d12d5d) — 10/14/2022 @ 9:55 am@149. We supply the Ukrainians with everything they need to turn the Russian hand that reached for them into hamburger. And we keep supplying them so they can do it again.
“We??” Buttinski bullsh!t. More and more Americans cannot afford ‘hamburger.’ Can’t manage our own problems but want to dictate how to manage other people’s problems. ‘Physician, heal thyself:‘
Don’t give a damn about the Ukraine/Russian gang turf wars. It is NOT an American problem. It is the responsibility of wealthy, modern Europe to manage the flare up of the third kinetic land war on their continent in 115 years- not the United States of America– and it is definitely not a financial burden to keep foisting upon a deeply in debt America. Nor to continue to freely finance and arm one of the most corrupt regions in Eastern Europe, stoking the fires in a conflict with another corrupt entity– as Florida lay in ruins, our own cities and infrastructure increasingly decay and our Southern border remains wide open– as record inflation devastates American families, raising the cost of food, gas– even postage stamps–and buckets of KFC.
DCSCA (29a116) — 10/14/2022 @ 10:02 am@152. You blinked. And missed something.
Do. Your. Homework.
DCSCA (29a116) — 10/14/2022 @ 10:06 amI assume I read you correctly, D — at least until you correct the record.
Appalled (eea0df) — 10/14/2022 @ 10:15 amWhat makes you think he’ll use nukes? Stop blinking; Do. Your. Homework.
“Father of All Bombs” (FOAB; Russian: “Папа всех бомб”, Пвб)] is a Russian-designed, bomber-delivered thermobaric weapon. The bomb is reportedly similar to the US military’s GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast which is often unofficially called “Mother of All Bombs” derived from its official military acronym “MOAB”. This weapon would therefore be the most powerful conventional (non-nuclear) weapon in the world. However, the veracity of Russia’s claims concerning the weapon’s size and power have been questioned by US defense analysts. [Yeah, their record is so good lately= sarc= See the Afghanistan debacle for details.]
“FOAB” was successfully field-tested in the late evening of 11 September 11, 2007. The new weapon is to replace several smaller types of nuclear bombs in the Russian arsenal. On September 8, 2017, unconfirmed reports of the Russian Defense Ministry announced it had tested the FOAB in combat for the first time in Syria as a part of its military campaign in the region.
According to General Aleksandr Rukshin, the Russian Deputy Chief of Staff, the new bomb was smaller than the MOAB but much deadlier because the temperature at the centre of the blast is twice as high. He claimed the bomb’s capabilities are comparable to nuclear weapons, but unlike nuclear weaponry known for its radioactive fallout, use of the weapon does not damage or pollute the environment beyond the blast radius.
In comparison, the MOAB produces the equivalent of 11 tons of TNT from 8 tons of high explosive. The blast radius of the FOAB is 300 meters, almost double that of the MOAB, and the temperature produced is twice as high.
[“Extra crispy,” buckets of bodies and debris, eh nk??!!)… Robert Hewson, an editor for Jane’s Information Group, told the BBC it was likely that FOAB indeed represented the world’s biggest non-nuclear bomb. “You can argue about the numbers and how you scale this but the Russians have a long and proven history of developing weapons in the thermobaric class”, he says. UPI claimed the device “would enormously boost Russia’s conventional military capabilities”.’ – source, wikiSlyandthe FamilyboomshakalakaStone,Iwannatakeyouhigher.bangersandmash.rubble
DCSCA (29a116) — 10/14/2022 @ 10:23 amTrump’s 14-page reply to yesterday’s hearing is a piece of work. Instead of this temper tantrum that pretended to be a rebuttal, maybe he should accept Cheney’s challenge and testify to the committee under oath.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/14/2022 @ 10:38 ammaybe he should accept Cheney’s challenge and testify to the committee under oath.
Pfft. The Force is with him: Trump has a political life ahead; Daughter Darth’s is dead.
DCSCA (29a116) — 10/14/2022 @ 10:41 amIn short: Lets have a debate of not only our desired outcome (Russia loses badly), but what does a negotiated peace look like (both sides loses something, but gains something).
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 7:07 am
Whembly, I think this is a circle that cannot be squared. When a country invades a neighbor, it doesn’t get to gain anything. It must return to the status quo ante.
If countries gain something, it incentivizes more invasions.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/14/2022 @ 12:30 pmPeople like Trump are why people who run afoul of the law get mirandized. A particularly useful tool for the mentally and emotionally deficient, but of course they are the most likely to disregard
steveg (2e2432) — 10/14/2022 @ 12:32 pm@161
I disagree… not when we’re talking about a nuclear power here.
You keep saying because a country invade, “it doesn’t get to gain anything.”
Okay, then what are you willing to do and support to achieve that objective?
In fact: What *is* the current US objective?
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:08 pm43. Here is the transcript of the 9th (and last) January 6, Committee hearing, which, technically, wasn’t a hearing. (that meant they could not have any live witnesses, but they could play recordings to go with a member’s speeches)
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1125331584/jan-6-committee-hearing-transcript
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:11 pm!!???
How could she be so wrong?
If they didn’t finish the proceeding, she would have become Acting President.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxx
And I would wager that Congress has so done, and it uses the same order of succession as in the middle of a term, and the 3rd in line of succession is the Speaker of the House, who on January 6, 2021 was…
Nancy Pelosi.
And by leaving that uncorrected, the committee. or whoever on the committee or its staff who included that, was being dishonest.
I suspect intentionally, because they want people to believe that Trump engineered the storming of the Capitol.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:18 pmOkay, then what are you willing to do and support to achieve that objective?
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:08 pm
What Rip said, minus the pre-2014 borders. It should return to the way it was just prior to the February invasion.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:19 pmAnother dishonest thing was playing of witnesses taking the 5th amendment.
It is not generally known, but lawyers tell clients that they cannot take the 5th amendment selectively, and if they answer one question they could lose that privilege.
This is the way things were established in the 1920 by criminal defense lawyers.
Now taking the 5th amendment could mean someone has something to worry about – at least that his words might be twisted – (technically it is only that people could be looking for something wrong, maybe only thoughts) but it doesn’t mean every answer to every question if answered truthfully would reveal crime.
O.J. Simpson’s lawyers exploited this with Mark Fuhrman.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:23 pm@166
Rip’s response was @ 144:
My question to you two is this:
I think any of this brings us to total war with Russia.
For me? I’m hoping for internal regime change.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:30 pmI think any of this brings us to total war with Russia.
For me? I’m hoping for internal regime change.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:30 pm
I disagree. The U.S. and NATO will respond proportionally.
If Russia starts a total war, then yes, it will get a total war.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:34 pm@169 It were ever thus.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:42 pmIf Russia thought it could survive all-out war with the United States, it would be glowing in the dark right now. Or do you think that it is their decency and humanity that has deterred them so far?
nk (6c45b4) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:49 pmOr do you think that it is their decency and humanity that has deterred them so far?
nk (6c45b4) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:49 pm
I think it’s the vodka.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/14/2022 @ 1:53 pmNobody F’s with a Biden… except the Saudi’s, who seem very comfortable giving him the brown middle left finger. Putin jumped at the chance but picked a suicidal venue drawing NATO attention to himself and then covering himself in that special glory you get when getting a beatdown from the “Big Guy” who often seems only nominally more sentient than a rutabaga
steveg (4c5fe4) — 10/14/2022 @ 3:04 pmThe Russians do seem to have a fear of gay pride parades.
steveg (4c5fe4) — 10/14/2022 @ 3:17 pm@173. The Saudis threw him over an oil drum, dropped his Depends and drilled Joey right in his well for all the world to see.
DCSCA (f87cad) — 10/14/2022 @ 3:21 pmThe Saudis threw him over an oil drum, dropped his Depends and drilled Joey right in his well for all the world to see.
DCSCA (f87cad) — 10/14/2022 @ 3:21 pm
I must admit it. That is funny.
And here I was on the verge of blocking you.
Comedy is your forte. It beats your usual stuff hands down.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/14/2022 @ 3:26 pmYou could have a long wait, and it could be one of these guys.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/14/2022 @ 3:41 pm