Russia To Begin Formal Annexation of Ukrainian Territory
[guest post by Dana]
After the sham election in four occupied areas in Ukraine in which people freely voted at gunpoint to join Russia, President Putin is expected to announce the annexation tomorrow:
Russia will on Friday begin formally annexing up to 18% of Ukrainian territory, with President Vladimir Putin expected to host a ceremony in the Kremlin to declare four occupied Ukrainian territories part of Russia.
The ceremony would take place on Friday at 15:00 local time (08:00 ET) in the Kremlin’s St. George’s Hall, Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov said. Putin will deliver a speech and meet with Russian-backed leaders of the four occupied regions on the sidelines of the ceremony, he added.
Next week, Russia’s two houses of parliament – the State Duma and Federation Council – will consider the annexation.
Ukraine’s President Zelensky said that the Ukraine will “defend its people” in the russianoccupied regions:
“We will act to protect our people: both in the Kherson region, in the Zaporizhzhia region, in the Donbas, in the currently occupied areas of the Kharkiv region, and in the Crimea,” he said in a video posted on Telegram.
“This farce in the occupied territory cannot even be called an imitation of referendums,” he said.
Days earlier, he told the United Nations via video that there can be no negotiations with Putin:
“Russia’s recognition of the pseudo-referendums as ‘normal,’ implementation of the so-called Crimean scenario, and yet another attempt to annex Ukrainian territory means that there is nothing to talk about with (the) current Russian president,” he said in a video message at a meeting of the UN security council.
“In front of the eyes of the whole world, Russia is conducting an outright farce called a ‘referendum’ on the occupied territory of Ukraine,” he said.
“People are forced to fill out some papers for a TV picture under the muzzles of machine guns.
“The figures of the alleged results of the pseudo-referendum were drawn in advance,” he said.
Meanwhile, the Biden administration announced this week that another $1.1 billion will be given in additional security assistance for Ukraine.
The question now is whether President Biden’s response to the nuclear threat (he obviously favors non-nuclear options) along with his warning that the United States would “respond forcefully” to any Russian nuclear strike, will be enough to deter a humiliated Putin:
The nuclear planner and two other senior officers…don’t disagree with that view, and none of them advocate any use of nuclear weapons in a preemptive strike. But to deter Putin from using nuclear weapons in the first place, the officers say, the United States needs to talk the nuclear talk—and not be held back by the fear of having to walk the walk.
“We’re in uncharted territory,” says a senior intelligence officer. “Threatening to respond forcefully and creating catastrophic consequences for Russia [without] suggesting nuclear war: Is that strong enough to deter Putin? And is it really clear? I’m not so sure.”
“We have to ponder whether other [non-nuclear] threats are powerful enough to deter Putin,” says a former bomber pilot who is now a Washington-based Pentagon officer.
President Biden’s national security adviser Jake Sullivan offered this week that the White House has been working behind the scenes to stress to Russia the devastating consequences they will face if they use the nuclear option:
Washington has “communicated directly, privately, to the Russians at very high levels that there will be catastrophic consequences for Russia if they use nuclear weapons in Ukraine,” he said on ABC News.
“If Russia crosses this line…the United States will respond decisively,” Sullivan said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” The Biden administration, he said, has “spelled out in greater detail exactly what that would mean” in its communications with the Kremlin.
The report notes that what the decisive response would be has not been made public.
Here is a blunt assessment of Sullivan’s comments:
“Threatening severe consequences without saying that the use of nuclear weapons is unacceptable under any circumstances, drawing a red-line … it isn’t clear that that is an adequate deterrent threat for Putin’s ears,” the Strategic Command civilian says.
“A general statement of deterrence didn’t prevent Russia’s invasion of Ukraine not only because Putin is reckless but also because ‘no matter what’ wasn’t the threat. It was the same as Sullivan’s threat today: ‘If you do it, we’ll respond.’ That’s not deterrence.”
–Dana
Please read the full report here which examines the lack of cohesion between the military and the White House regarding a possible nuclear strike by Russia.
Dana (1225fc) — 9/29/2022 @ 10:43 amWhat annexation. I don’t recognize no stinking annexation. Never happened, and that goes for the Crimean region of Ukraine as well.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:22 amThere are some PP posters whose first response to the suggestion of Russia using tactical nuclear weapons is “Chernobyl,” and why would Putin attack territory he wants to conquer. This discounts the possibility that Putin may use nuclear artillery, for example, to contaminate territory from which the Russians have lost, basically saying “if I can’t have it, no one can.” I think this the greater danger.
Call it nuclear spite.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:30 amFor the U.S. to ‘talk the nuclear talk’ means it is playing on Putin’s turf. It’s important to remember the U.S. and Russia have differing policy approaches on the use of nuclear weapons. For the U.S. they exist to deter; for Russia they’re an integrated element in defending Mother Russia– their ‘NATO’ as it were.
Putin’s move is clever; “annexing” territory brings it under that Russian nuclear policy umbrella, complete w/nuclear weapons at the ready to defend “Russian territory.” [Remember when France was occupied, it became ‘part of the Reich’ and “defended” by Germans, too.]
But he’s Vladimir Bluffin; nukes are messy– and counterproductive; their use simply doesn’t make much sense given the longevity of the aftereffects on very territories and environment he wants to absorb. Chernobyl is a glowing example literally at his doorstep.
It’s disturbing how loosely so many government officials w/nuclear weapons in their arsenals– and even commenters- increasingly are so easy to chatter about using these lethal devices in so many scenarios yet endlessly fret about similar scaled devices falling into the hands of terrorists. That’s not setting a very good example. Their damage stretches beyond the immediate:
Effects to the Human Body From Nuclear Fallout
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2017/ph241/shimp1/
Radioactive Fallout From Nuclear Weapons Testing
https://www.epa.gov/radtown/radioactive-fallout-nuclear-weapons-testing
Comments from young, bureaucratic wags like Sullivan or bluster from piss-and-vinegar-filled Russian diplomouth pieces does little to build confidence that any of these ignorant boobs have the life experience, or the wisdom that comes with age, to know the genuine long term damage these devices cause. A month or two meeting at Fukushima seems appropriate– with stops at Hiroshima and Bikini on the way.
DCSCA (914cb8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:36 am@3. Your immaturity is showing.
DCSCA (914cb8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:37 amRip thinks he’s Curt LeMay.
DCSCA (914cb8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:42 amPP posters?
Pro Peace posters.
Bless them.
DCSCA (914cb8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:43 amI care about Florida. Don’t give a crap about Ukraine. This will be my only post on the subject.
NJRob (3a2362) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:45 am@8. Whaddabout Puerto Rico? Desperate U.S. citizens there, too!
DCSCA (914cb8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:46 amIt is time to kill Putin. Otherwise he’ll invade Florida next.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:53 amPart of the problem is that the US lacks sufficient tactical nuclear weapons to respond in kind.
Source
The actual number varies between 100-200 depending on the source.
Russia, however, has nearly 2,000 warheads, and many of its launch platforms are dual use:
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:55 amIt is time to kill Putin. Otherwise he’ll invade Florida next.
That way, Joe can talk to him. 😉
DCSCA (914cb8) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:57 amA little more focus on “cohesion” and a little less on LGBTQMPSTUV might help.
some more cohesion
Colonel Haiku (fd34d5) — 9/29/2022 @ 11:58 ammight even be possible
sans Joe’s brain lesions
D’OH!!!
https://freebeacon.com/national-security/trans-army-doctor-indicted-for-trying-to-give-soldiers-medical-info-to-russia/
Colonel Haiku (fd34d5) — 9/29/2022 @ 12:05 pmon the plus side, a nuclear holocaust will strengthen nato like never before
rolls eyes
JF (3acaa0) — 9/29/2022 @ 12:14 pm@11. Part of the problem is recognizing it; put down the mirror: your homework assignment for tonight, Rip:
http://www.speeches-usa.com/Transcripts/john_f_kennedy-american.html
For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children’s future. And we are all mortal.- John F. Kennedy, June 10, 1963
DCSCA (914cb8) — 9/29/2022 @ 12:14 pmFor everyone else, bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2022 @ 1:26 pmPutin’s sham-wow elections.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2022 @ 1:42 pmWho put the boom in the bomb bah bomb bah bomb
Colonel Haiku (fd34d5) — 9/29/2022 @ 1:51 pmWho put the nuke up Joe’s rama lama ding dong
The South Carolina Republican told reporters that the US and its Western allies would have to devise an “overwhelming” response that would be “catastrophic” to Russia should that doomsday scenario play out.
MEMO to Sweet-Cheeks: Rip already told you the response: ‘bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.’
We know you’ll love it, too.
DCSCA (80cb73) — 9/29/2022 @ 2:24 pm@20. Who put the nuke up Joe’s rama lama ding dong
The next time the idiot bloviates about gas prices dropping, light the frigging fuse:
just got gasoline: Shell regular: $7.20/gal.,/ premium, $7.40/gal.,/Hi-test, $7.60/gal.
And no, Joe– they don’t give out Green Stamps anymore.
DCSCA (80cb73) — 9/29/2022 @ 2:28 pmThat’swhat I once read, they used todoin Czechoslovakia. It wasn’tonly the no competition elections. They just made up the results.
It used to be 98% or 99%. Putin prefers numbers in the 70s or 80s.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/29/2022 @ 2:39 pm“if I can’t have it, no one can.” I think this the greater danger.
Call it nuclear spite.
Call it what it is: immaturity.
DCSCA (80cb73) — 9/29/2022 @ 3:03 pmRussia will have egg all over its face if it uses nukes, because it will be an admission that its military couldn’t defeat Ukraine using conventional weaponry.
Anyone capable of rational thought will see through the annexation ruse should “defending the motherland” be used as justification for dropping a nuke.
norcal (da5491) — 9/29/2022 @ 3:34 pmCold comfort.
Colonel Haiku (fd34d5) — 9/29/2022 @ 4:16 pmHere’s a stray thought: Perhaps a few opposition Western politicians should start to speculate about territorial losses — for Putin.
For example, in the US, Texas Senator Ted Cruz might point to the large number of men leaving Russia, and suggest a place for them. Perhaps St. Petersburg should become a “free city”, he could suggest. Subject, of course to an internationally-supervised referendum.
(You want opposition politicians doing this, because that keeps it from looking like a government trial balloon, but still brings up the issue.)
(Cross posted at Political Betting.)
Jim Miller (85fd03) — 9/29/2022 @ 4:22 pmJim Miller,
IIRC, a couple of law professors floated the idea in the NYT and I think the Wall Street Journal at the beginning of the war. They suggested that the US be a place of refuge for the defectors. Perhaps it will gain more traction now.
Dana (1225fc) — 9/29/2022 @ 4:42 pmMeanwhile, the Biden administration announced this week that another $1.1 billion will be given in additional security assistance for Ukraine.
And NONE of them are American taxpayers-.
Florida needs this $. Puerto Rico needs this $.
Ukraine does not.
DCSCA (51ceb0) — 9/29/2022 @ 4:47 pmDana – Thanks for the info.
Jim Miller (85fd03) — 9/29/2022 @ 5:09 pmukraine is a great reason to start ww3 like franz ferdinand was a great reason to start ww1
the people who think this is worth getting involved in and wasting billions need to get a brain scan
JF (55e889) — 9/29/2022 @ 5:34 pmPart of the problem is that the US lacks sufficient tactical nuclear weapons to respond in kind.
Also, we lack the stupidity to do so. Instead, we have NATO, and NATO can do at least as well as the Ukrainians at pushing the Russians out.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 5:48 pmIt’s really amazing the way the US-Russia Bund members here evoke defeatism and nuclear horror. The answer to “What if they use nuclear weapons?” is much the same as it always has been.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 5:53 pmThe only nuclear weapons NATO has are US weapons. The question is not whether the Ukrainians can push the Russians out (probably not completely) but how does NATO retaliate if the Russians use its micro-nuclear weapons (such as nuclear artillery) to either launch an EMP attack on Ukraine or Europe, or a demonstration shot over the Black or Baltic Sea, or an attack to deny Ukraine the option of re-occupying its territory through nuclear contamination. Per Dana’s Newsweek link, somebody better be thinking about it. Because I don’t think Putin cares about the consequences.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:03 pmSome people just want to bury their heads in the sand.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:04 pmRussian nuke attack on Ukraine would be attack on NATO: Graham
You’d think Lindsey would be tired of being the poster child for abortion given his stance on same. 😉
DCSCA (81fed8) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:06 pm@34. The only nuclear weapons NATO has are US weapons.
=sigh= Three of NATO’s members are nuclear weapons states: France, the United Kingdom, and the United States. -source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
@35. Some people just want to bury their heads in the sand.
Indeed; time for you to come up for air.
DCSCA (81fed8) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:12 pm#33. Amen, Kevin.
Dmitri has a good rundown on the current situation with Putin’s war of aggression. A key nugget is that Lyman is cut off and it’s only a matter of time before the Ukrainian freedom fighters retake this city, but we’re not hearing because the Ukrainian side keeping it mum. Kherson is not long from being reclaimed.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:22 pmThe answer to “What if they use nuclear weapons?” is much the same as it always has been.
Let’s ask the Japanese.
DCSCA (81fed8) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:24 pmThe only nuclear weapons NATO has are US weapons.
NATO has plenty of regular forces. It is one thing for Putin to nuke Ukrainians — we can respond conventionally. It is an entirely different matter for Putin to nuke NATO troops. That falls into the category of “killing your country in an afternoon.”
And, again, if we actually think that Putin is that far gone, we need to kill him RIGHT NOW. Everyone will thank us, especially the Russians.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:27 pm@34:
And maybe no body is being clear: NATO goes to war with Russia; Russia loses. “Nuking Ukraine” or some other silly act, is quite a bit different than “nuking NATO.” FRANCE has enough nuclear missiles to destroy Russia. Putin knows this.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:30 pmAt this point, the best scenario for Russia is they vacate all of Ukraine (including Crimea) and don’t also lose Kaliningrad. There are no good options for Putin except “quick” or “slow.”
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:33 pmIgnorance is bliss; lots of happy of Club Nukem members out tonight.
https://themillenniumreport.com/2015/08/how-a-russian-submarine-officer-saved-the-world-from-nuclear-war/
The man who saved the world: The Soviet submariner who single-handedly averted WWIII at height of the Cuban Missile Crisis
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2208342/Soviet-submariner-single-handedly-averted-WWIII-height-Cuban-Missile-Crisis.html
Vasili Arkhipov was a Soviet naval officer who, upon making a split second decision, prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis from escalating into a nuclear war. It is fitting to begin three years after Mr. Arkhipov’s death. On October 13, 2002, on the 40th anniversary of the Cuban Missile Crisis, the director of the National Security Archive Thomas Blanton remarked that “a guy called Vasili Arkhipov saved the world.”
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/cold-war/vasili-cuban-missile-crisis.html?edg-c=1
DCSCA (81fed8) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:34 pmA Moscow Trump Tower in our time!
nk (938fcb) — 9/29/2022 @ 6:49 pmAnd maybe no body is being clear: NATO goes to war with Russia; Russia loses.
NATO’s posture- and strength- has been as a defensive alliance. ‘Going to war with Russia’ as an aggressor plays right into Putin’s hand, validating what Russia’s opposition has been to NATO all along. NATO must maintain a defensive stance. It’s a strength- as long as members pay their share.
DCSCA (8b0a84) — 9/29/2022 @ 8:02 pmA Moscow Trump Tower in our time!
As long as Trump lives there.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 8:02 pm‘Going to war with Russia’ as an aggressor plays right into Putin’s hand
Just as going to war with Hitler played right into his hands.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/29/2022 @ 8:03 pm@47. There was no NATO in 1939, Kev.
DCSCA (4afbfe) — 9/29/2022 @ 8:53 pmThe US is the only NATO country with tactical nuclear weapons in Europe. The British and French nuclear forces consist of submarine launched strategic nuclear missiles only. They are independent of the NATO military command.
Source p. 8.
Rip Murdock (5192cb) — 9/29/2022 @ 9:39 pm@47. Worth viewing:
How Hitler Lost The War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX_0FpXEK5M
DCSCA (4afbfe) — 9/29/2022 @ 10:07 pmInstead of outlining anything in the vicinity of a legitimate casus belli, Putin is spouting gibberish like this…
And this.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/30/2022 @ 6:00 amThe US should announce the annexation of Kamchatka.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/30/2022 @ 8:44 am@51: Cue General Ripper.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/30/2022 @ 8:46 amTrumpWorld approves.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/30/2022 @ 8:49 amAmerica rejected President Trump. Obviously under Satan’s thrall.
Speaking of thralldom, it took less than 50 years to create the American labradoodle. How many generations of thralldom, periodic massacres and purges, feudalism and communism, were really needed to make the majority of Russians a mindless mass that follows its Putin no matter what?
nk (b9023d) — 9/30/2022 @ 9:07 am