Russian Officials Who Called On Putin To Step Down Face Consequences
[guest post by Dana]
More bad news for President Putin – after the humiliation of Russian troops around Kharkiv – when deputies from 18 municipal districts signed a petition calling on him to step down:
“We, the municipal deputies of Russia, believe that the actions of its president Vladimir Putin are detrimental to Russia’s and its citizens’ future,” the petition said, which was posted online by Ksenia Thorstrom, a local deputy of the Semenovsky District in Saint Petersburg.
Additionally, and rather shockingly, a commentator was invited on state television and
uttered the “unspeakable”, criticising the war and saying Ukraine could not be defeated.
He called for peace talks during his appearance over the weekend.
The Russian operation in Ukraine right now is in crisis, there’s a lot of problems,” according to Russian military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer.
Yet, an even bigger problem for the government seems to be brewing: Russians appear to be having doubts about the war in Ukraine:
The notable shift in public rhetoric and sentiment bubbling up in Russia suggests that belief is waning – something which could be a “game changer,” Mr Felgenhauer told the ABC.
“The Russian public are beginning to ask questions,” he said.
“That could be a very serious internal problem for the regime.”
While it may not yet pose any real threat to Putin and cronies, maybe it’s a start.
Meanwhile, it’s now being reported that those speaking out against Putin are facing the consequences of their actions:
A Russian politician who was part of a group that appealed to the country’s parliament last week to remove President Vladimir Putin from power on a charge of high treason, has been fined for “discrediting” the Russian government.
Dmitry Palyuga, a municipal deputy for Smolninskoe in St. Petersburg, was fined 47,000 rubles ($780), days after he and other members were accused of committing actions aimed at discrediting the Kremlin.
Additional council members who also signed the appeal are due in court this week.
And I’ll just leave you with this caution from a smart piece titled Putin Will Admit Defeat with a Victory Parade in Moscow by Dr. Orhan Dragas:
Treating Putin as an unwanted but unavoidable interlocutor/partner is what Putin expects from others, hopes for and benefits from. No one but him can profit if, even after his aggression against Ukraine, he remains a factor to be considered regarding any event on the world stage. Not even Russia will benefit – only Putin – though it seems too late for Russia to realize that.
Nevertheless, it is not too late for everyone else in Europe and the U.S., not even for those leaders who still cannot conceive of a future architecture on the border between Europe and Asia without Putin’s participation.
Ukraine’s successful counteroffensive against Russian invaders should be the final wake-up call from such delusions, as full victory may come sooner than many are ready for. If they still have any dealings with the Russian leader – and they do – they should end them as soon as possible, because after the day when the war in Ukraine ends “the day after Putin” will come.
I’m optimistic that the Russian people – especially the young people who have been against this invasion from the get-go – are willing to start something in the streets of Moscow and St. Petersberg.Dana (1225fc) — 9/14/2022 @ 1:13 pm
Stay away from high windows.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/14/2022 @ 1:15 pm
@1. Revisit Russia, circa 1991-1993– when the now middle-aged were the then young.
They had a revolution- [remember Amanpour reporting live from Moscow rooftops as tanks shelled the Russian White House?] And they got Big Macs to stand in line for and Rolls-Royces sold in Red Square affordable only to the criminal class- and massive ‘capitalist’ corruption. They dumped Gorby, got Yeltsin– who brought in… Putin. Leave Russia to the Russians. For Americans, the wiser worry is China.DCSCA (68ffb4) — 9/14/2022 @ 1:24 pm
DCSCA (68ffb4) — 9/14/2022 @ 1:24 pm
China may look on Russia as a test case, just like Russia maybe looked t the withdrawal from Afghanistan. China is not ready to attack right now.Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/14/2022 @ 1:37 pm
There were two petitions.
That is version B. Version A demanded that the Duma charge Putin with high treason on the grounds that his decision to launch a war against Ukraine has damaged the security of Russia and its citizens.
Version B says nothing specific about what Putin did, doesn’t mention treason but just calls on him to resign, and just complains in general terms about the effects on Russia. (which sounds like it is alluding to the sanctions.)
I think people are trying to gradually steel themselves to be more courageous.
This is someone at the station acting on his own. Similar things were tried a few times before. They are not saying it because they just thought so, and they are nnot saying the war is wrong — they are trying to dsee what they can get away with saying.
Putin probably thinks the situation is delicate and he doesn’t want to undermine the whole system he has set in place and he certainly does not want to set a bad precedent, like too great punishment for people who have positions of power
Khrushchev recognized the value of limiting the consequences of a purge and he benefitted from it in 1964. Under Stalin people who fell from power were arrested and often killed. Khrushchev started to do things like assign them to insignificant jobs or allowed them to retire. Or consider restrictions on leaving the country (which Khrushchev, out of power, regretted not liberalizing. Putin hasn;t touched that at all – he is actually encouraging people to flee)
There are also people Putin does not want to touch for various reasons, including who else is close to them.
And one reason he can’t use nuclear weapons, because that would move people to act.Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/14/2022 @ 2:06 pm
The United States, NATO and Ukraine probably half fell into a strategy.
One part is “salami tactics”: Gradually increasing Ukraine’s military capability. (and all the while the United States and NATO was helping Ukraine with intelligence, with an especial priority on defense)
The other part is suddenly being able to mount an offensive.
It wasn’t quite as gradual as Russia thought.
It’s not how much territory Ukraine regains but how fast, and how much that was a surprise to Putin.
Ukraine even announced its offensive was (mainly) aimed at the south and kept secret – and out of the international news media – its recovery of some towns for three days. They were counting on it being slow to penetrate. The news about what took three days to accomplish probably came to Putin in less than a day and a half.Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/14/2022 @ 2:19 pm
Here’s a stellar thread on the Russian military culture of lying, which is likely to have hollowed out their forces. Of course, the lying starts right at the very top. Worth a full read.Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/14/2022 @ 10:56 pm
@7. Here’s a stellar thread on the Russian military culture of lying, which is likely to have hollowed out their forces. Of course, the lying starts right at the very top. Worth a full read.
And here’s “a stellar piece on the U.S. military culture of lying… Of course, the lying starts right at the very top. Worth a full read:”
THE TRUTH ABOUT LIES IN VIETNAM
And this, for an appetizer; then wade through The Pentagon Papers:
Vietnam, a war between truth & lies
“Truth is the first victim in all wars” – Aeschylus, 550 BCDCSCA (f4c5e5) — 9/14/2022 @ 11:59 pm