Patterico's Pontifications

9/6/2022

Constitutional Vanguard: Where We Are As a Country

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:02 am



Hi. It’s been a while. Summer visitors and events have taken me out of the daily writing routine. Over the long weekend, I tried to jump back in with this 5,000+ word screed.

One of the reasons I don’t write as regularly any more is that I find it boring to put up a link to whatever the latest story is, and then repeat whatever a person says about the latest story. Others are far better than I am at making breaking news posts interesting. I do best at long-form stuff, I think. If you’re going to spend a while reading a piece, I hope to leave you with a few nuggets you’d not heard before, or that might surprise you coming from me. I hope this is no exception. Among other things, one thing I do here is take us on a little trip down Memory Lane, to explore why Donald Trump may have been popular with people not that different from me:

At Allahpundit’s new home, The Dispatch, there is a wonderful limited-run series of podcasts hosted by Chris Stirewalt, the guy responsible for the Arizona call at Fox News on Election Night 2020, essentially conducting an autopsy of the Republican party that seized control of government in 2016 and gave it all away in four years. How in the hell did that happen? is the question that the podcast seeks to answer. I am still listening to the series, but so far I highly recommend the episodes where Stirewalt interviews Steve Kornacki and Matthew Continetti. Both commentators, along with Stirewalt, provided some real insight into the recent history of the conservative movement. They highlighted the concerns that the base had at the time of the Tea Party movement, and the way that the establishment GOP gave the base the back of its hand. This had real meaning for me, because I considered myself substantially in alignment with the base at that point in time, and I remember the anger at the way we seemed to be getting sold down the river, time and again — and the complicity of Big Media in helping to attack anyone who tried to stop the sale.

Do you remember? We had a president (Obama) who started his presidency by shoving what then seemed like a historically outrageous amount of government spending down our throats, and then gave us the first steps towards a government takeover of health care, in the form of Obamacare. When the Sarah Palins of the world warned that this could all be headed toward “death panels” — put simply, the government being in charge of critical decisions as to whether this person or that person would get expensive but potentially life-saving treatment — her concerns, which I and many others shared, were dismissed as rank propaganda. Then the GOP, in its wisdom, decided to nominate the one fella on earth who could not properly make the case that Obamacare posed a threat: Mitt Romney, who had signed a similar bill in his own state.

In the portion for paid subscribers, I address the failed District Attorney recall, and talk a little about the importance of independents:

But here’s the thing: I don’t think getting indicted for stealing Top Secret documents makes Trump more popular with independents. And this brings me to the other thing I learned from the Kornacki podcast: independents drive everything. The committed partisans on both sides are basically a balance in this country. Independents decide elections.

I don’t purport to be an expert at political analysis, but Kornacki is. Like many of you, I was under the impression that our recent elections — and 2016 in particular — were all about getting out the base. Independents didn’t matter as much anymore, or so I thought. Kornacki says that’s wrong. And he noted that independents broke for Trump in 2016! I was so surprised by that, I looked it up myself. Sure enough, the Pew Research Center says this about the 2016 presidential election results:

Subscribe to find out!

Enjoy. Read it here. Subscribe here.

115 Responses to “Constitutional Vanguard: Where We Are As a Country”

  1. Yay!

    That’s it, for now. Just yay! I may have more when I have properly read it.

    nk (28b9a4)

  2. Thank you for this. Truly.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  3. That’s right, you all. You need to start pandering to me and my kind, not the folks who will vote for you anyway. Remember that the word base has another meaning that’s descriptive of some of the viewpoints coming from that direction.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  4. What if its Newsom vs Trump? Which is nudging towards a reality every passing hour.

    I know third party people voting – is just casting a vote for Newsom.

    Newsom wants to put a wealth tax on 401K’s and limit the amount and rate they can grow.

    Newsom wants 25 dollar an hour with the govt deciding whether you can fire an employee (See France and Germany)

    so, unfortunately a deeply flawed Trump is the only thing standing in the way

    EPWJ (650a62)

  5. An excellent piece. I think the real takeaway, for me, is “how do you deal with an increasingly ignorant voter base?” It seems that public education is the center of everything and we’ve let it rot.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  6. so, unfortunately a deeply flawed Trump is the only thing standing in the way

    No, Trump is enabling this. He’s a suboptimum candidate blocking all the better candidates. If he were to step aside and endorse the eventual candidate the opposition to Newsom or whoever would be much stronger.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  7. 4,

    Newsom wants 25 dollar an hour

    My understanding is that the Healthcare Workers Minimum Wage Ordinance” increases the minimum wage to $25/hr for healthcare workers employed only at privately-owned healthcare facilities in Los Angeles. The ordinance also says that the minimum wage will increase annually with the cost of living. Mayor Garcetti signed the ordinance, and it was effective August 2022.

    Yesterday, Gov. Newsom did this:

    California legislators signed a nation-leading measure giving more than a half-million fast food workers more power and protections, despite the objections of restaurant owners who warned it would drive up consumers’ costs.

    Gov. Gavin Newsom signed the law on Monday, creating a 10-member Fast Food Council with equal numbers of workers’ delegates and employers’ representatives, along with two state officials, empowered to set minimum standards for wages, hours and working conditions in California.

    The law caps minimum wage increases for fast food workers at chains with more than 100 restaurants at $22 an hour next year, compared to the statewide minimum of $15.50 an hour, with cost of living increases thereafter.

    Can you link to where Gov. Newsom wants $25/hour for business entities in the state?

    Dana (1225fc)

  8. Dana

    On the campaign stump he’s promising 25 dollars an hour and govt oversight on employee discipline issues, smaller work weeks, 401K taxes etc

    EPWJ (650a62)

  9. Dana 22 dollars this year rising to 25 by 2024

    EPWJ (650a62)

  10. Dana

    I get it Trump is bad – his followers mindless Nazi fascist sheep, but the crickets on the cray cray that just is passing.

    He’s not my choice, wasn’t my choice but we need him, Desantis isn’t running, oh he’s enjoying the attention but he has no game that’s different from The bad man in orange.

    All I know is september 401K statements are coming and the Dems know it – 25% of Americas wealth has evaporated

    Who they going to call?

    EPWJ (650a62)

  11. I think the real takeaway, for me, is “how do you deal with an increasingly ignorant voter base?”

    So voters are “ignorant” for finally rejecting modern ideological conservatism, their thieving neocons hanger-ons with their endless wars and are angered by plagiaristic, swampy scumbags from all points of the compass shoveling lying’, dog-faced pony soldier bull and finance the very candidates they opposed in primaries in hopes of beating them in a general election.

    The scumbums work for the voters; not the other way around. And populism is rooting deeper and deeper because of it.

    Jefferson had it right. But what did he know; he just helped start the place…

    Storm the castle:

    “I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.]Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government.” – Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/a-little-rebellionquotation/

    DCSCA (1bfcd4)

  12. dana

    Her is one of about 1499 links – Newsom met with the city council and this was the result

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-06-21/la-council-backs-25-dollar-minimum-wage-for-some-health-workers

    EPWJ (650a62)

  13. first its health care workers – then its everyone

    EPWJ (650a62)

  14. @5

    An excellent piece. I think the real takeaway, for me, is “how do you deal with an increasingly ignorant voter base?” It seems that public education is the center of everything and we’ve let it rot.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/6/2022 @ 11:11 am

    I dunno… but, calling them “Election Deniers” or “Insurrectionist” won’t get you that far on the education front.

    whembly (b770f8)

  15. 10. Keep underestimating the simmering cauldron of angry populism. Never forget who shot and killed Ashli Babbitt.

    Joe does.

    They don’t.

    DCSCA (1bfcd4)

  16. 15.

    The name of the person morally responsible for that shooting is Donald Trump. He was assisted by the people who boldly call for insurrection and civil war behind the safety of their keyboards.

    Appalled (ae019f)

  17. What if its Newsom vs Trump?

    OFGS: what if cows pooped $100 bills; Gov., McGreasycomb would tax 50% of every load of fertilizer.

    DCSCA (1bfcd4)

  18. @16. Pfft. Nice try.

    And the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre was the fault of Congress for passing the Volstead Act, to implement the 18th Amendment. Not Al Capone.

    DCSCA (1bfcd4)

  19. What happened? How many times do I have to tell you what happened it never seems to get thru your preconceived views. In 2016 with green party on ballot trump beats clinton. MI> trump wins by 10,000 votes jill stein takes 50,000 votes from clinton. PA. 43.000 (50,000) WI. 22,000 (36.000) 2020 democrats use laws that republicans put in place to keep libertarian party off ballot (they failed) to keep green party off ballot. Biden wins az by 10,000 ga by 13,000 wi by 20,000 and becomes president. Here is the proof of how it happened. What ever else you say has to fit around this or is meaningless.

    asset (d2d387)

  20. #15

    Really, Ashli Babbit, Q follower with anger management issues, makes poor martyr material. Particularly when you have Trump supporting Republican Representative Markwayne Mullin, a witness to Babbitt’s attempted breach, remembering that the Capitol Police “didn’t have a choice” but to shoot, and that this action “saved people’s lives”.[64]

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/one-woman-shot-six-hospitalized-as-trump-loving-mob-swarms-capitol

    Appalled (03f53c)

  21. asset ain’t wrong

    JF (f1162a)

  22. #19 Asset —

    The Green Party has never been granted access to the Georgia ballot. Not in 2016. Not in 2020. Your theory, as it applies to this state, is nonsense.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  23. 16… shameful.

    Colonel Haiku (8b99b0)

  24. “know it – 25% of Americas wealth has evaporated

    Who they going to call?”

    Wealthbusters!

    Colonel Haiku (8b99b0)

  25. As to government sending like obama care. The corporate establishment and deep state that controls this country wants to semi peacefully stay in power to continue its capitalist greed. conservatives are no threat to them. Populists somewhat are ;but it has been so long that they have been out of power the corporate establishment had forgotten about them. The tea party which was conservative was overwhelmed by the populists in 2016 and took over the republican party. Now what the deep corporate state has been worried about for over a hundred years. The left and the black population and now latinx joining to gather to confront and now with their gaining numbers take over the political system. The government spends money to keep the minorities and poor whites from joining with the left to confront capitalism. Now all they can do is delay AOC and the left from taking over. That you don’t like government spending on obama care and the like is irrelevant to the deep state keeping the left at bey. The democrat party is a centrist corporate party despite you thinking they are far left. Even bernie and AOC don’t want to nationalize the means of production. Black leaders are told to support gun control to keep non criminal black men unarmed as criminal element keeps the blacks under control and the militants marginalized. None of this will probably get thru to you ;but I try to inform.

    asset (d2d387)

  26. @22 in 2016 ga. was not close enough in trump win, as for 2020 ballot access laws in ga. were their to keep third parties like the libertarian party and green party off ballot. My point stands.

    asset (d2d387)

  27. “I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: and very bad. I do not know which preponderate. What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a Chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: and what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1787.

    https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/tree-liberty-quotation/

    DCSCA (1bfcd4)

  28. Asset:

    Libertarian presidential vote in 2020 — 62,229
    Libertarian presidential vote in 2016 — 125,306

    No Green Party either year.

    Peddle a different conspiracy for Georgia. There are plenty floating around.

    Appalled (ae019f)

  29. increases the minimum wage to $25/hr for healthcare workers employed only at privately-owned healthcare facilities in Los Angeles

    Beggaring the competition. Government-run facilities can pay less, and in any event do not have to win customers to stay in business.

    They did the same thing a number of years ago to airport hotel workers. I won’t say “For” airport hotel workers as there are a LOT fewer of them now. Low-skilled jobs have been replaced by automation (e.g. parking lots) or simply eliminated (e.g. no daily maid service).

    I wonder what the fallout will be in health-care? I would guess that a lot of currently local jobs will be outsourced where possible. That blood test might be processed in Wuhan.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  30. Gov. Gavin Newsom signed the law on Monday, creating a 10-member Fast Food Council with equal numbers of workers’ delegates and employers’ representatives, along with two state officials, empowered to set minimum standards for wages, hours and working conditions in California.

    A lot of 7-5 votes, and a lot of ordering kiosks and labor-saving kitchen equipment.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  31. I dunno… but, calling them “Election Deniers” or “Insurrectionist” won’t get you that far on the education front.

    Neither will teaching their children that the world is flat, if that’s the current wokist meme..

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  32. @28 My point is not refuted. The republicans in ga. failed to keep libertarian party off ballot because the libertarian party is bigger then the green party. The green party being smaller was not able to gain ballot access because of the laws to keep them and libertarian party off ballot. To prove me wrong you would have to explain why the green party had they gained ballot access would not have got at least 14,000 votes. This is about voters not being given a choice to vote green party instead of biden. The libertarian party votes are irreverent to this issue.

    asset (d2d387)

  33. Asset, please learn the value of paragraphs and other forms of white-space. Otherwise it’s too hard to read and so I don’t.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  34. @30 GOOD!

    asset (d2d387)

  35. @28:

    The LP got 5 times the margin of difference (12,000 votes) in GA in 2020. In 2016, Trump got a majority so it doesn’t matter,

    In 2016, the Greens’ vote in PA would have been enough to put Clinton ahead, although the LP vote would have given Trump a majority. Same story in MI and WI.

    Other places where Hillary won, the LP vote would have changed that.

    At some point you have to give up the whatif games. Both minor parties cost their closer major several states each time. If there were no minor parties, it’s probably the same thing anyway.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  36. @30 GOOD!

    You like putting low-income workers out of a job?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  37. The LP spends nearly all its campaign money getting on state ballots. If they fail, the majors are happy. If they succeed, they’re too broke to campaign and the majors like that, too.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  38. @36 Every where I go their are help wanted signs out. Their are almost two jobs for every one looking for work. Thomas mauthas iron law of wages: wages fall to just above starvation level because if they fall below to many workers starve to death and you have a labor shortage. The economy is normally fluctuating between these extremes employers trying to pay the workers as little as they can get away with. Treating workers as capitalist wage slaves. See the movie caesar chavez.

    asset (d2d387)

  39. “Both minor parties cost their closer major several states each time. If there were no minor parties, it’s probably the same thing anyway.”

    I tend to agree. If the Green and Libertarian parties didn’t exist, the people voting for them either not be voting at all, or would be writing in “Lizard People”.

    Davethulhu (aec6bf)

  40. Wait till the brokerage staements for the worst qtr in history hit the kitchen tables and the new mortgage payments drain the checking acct. Think those union guys pendion funds just got hammered are going to run to vote to lose even more money?

    Yeah Ron, never held a private job Desantis is going to save the day…. sure go with that. Oh hes not running but that never stopped bloggers.

    EPWJ (650a62)

  41. Thomas mauthas

    Was almost entirely wrong. To hear him, the capitalist world would be a Dickensian horror. It isn’t.

    What Malthus was, was an apologist for 1830’s English factory owners, claiming that what they were doing was a law of nature. He wasn’t predicting, he was propagandizing.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  42. The interest rate hikes are all the doing of Jerome Powell, who decided that he made amistake before and now will be stubbornn at least until there is arecession.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  43. 18. Repealing Prohibition and the Volstead Act did not restore the status quo ante.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  44. So, a state trial court in NM has removed Couy Griffin, a county commissioner, from office for being part of an insurrection on Jan 6th. He was convicted only of misdemeanor trespassing and did not enter the Capitol itself, nor was he found to have committed violence.

    This on the basis of the 14th Amendment.

    I have several issues here.

    1) A NM trial court judge is not competent to judge how a federal law should be applied here, nor does he have jurisdiction in applying it.

    2) Even if the 14th Amendment prohibition applies to Jan 6th insurrectionists, mere trespassing does not seem to be the same as “insurrection.” My feeling would be that being convicted of a violent crime, another disruptive act, or seditious conspiracy would be required to justify a claim of “insurrection.” That does not apply here.

    I would suggest that he appeal to the federal courts, which are the only courts that can actually answer the question. If any magistrate court in East Armpit can toss someone out of office for “insurrection” there’s a lot of folks who are at risk.

    Is harboring illegal immigrants “insurrection”?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  45. Link

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  46. Of course the independents matter, a large percentage of the voting population are independents. You can’t win if you don’t get at least some of the middle.

    Nic (896fdf)

  47. Back when this whole $1.8 stimulus plan was being introduced, Secretary Yellen loudly pronounced it would not be inflationary. Being a past Fed Chair her statement was taken as authoritative. Now she says there won’t be recession and that government spending didn’t cause the inflation.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  48. At some point you have to give up the whatif games. Both minor parties cost their closer major several states each time. If there were no minor parties, it’s probably the same thing anyway.
    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/6/2022 @ 2:10 pm

    this assumes both minor parties are off the ballot, or both are on it

    in several key states, the L was on and G was off, and not by happenstance

    rules were bent to accommodate vote by mail, drop boxes, postmark dates and whatever else, but try to let people vote G and suddenly everyone’s a stickler for the rules

    democracy my a$$

    JF (85b5fa)

  49. I like your thoughts, Patterico.

    But I stopped trying to intellectualize Trump a long time ago. Some things intellect cannot handle. Not my intellect, anyway.

    As much as I have tried to give him credit where credit was due, Trump for me will always be: “Yuck, bleech, what is that stuff? Get it off of me! I’ve got to shower and change my clothes.”

    nk (d5e05c)

  50. Thomas mauthas iron law of wages

    Malthus assumed that affluence brought rapid population growth, which would then mean that the was a surplus of labor, driving wages down. THe problem with that as both Ricardo and Marx pointed out was that the assumption was generally false. The modern era which has seen affluence lead to declining birth rates is abject refutation of Malthus and the horse he rode in on.

    And someone else called it the “iron law of wages” well after Malthus was dead.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  51. in several key states, the L was on and G was off, and not by happenstance

    No, it was by the LP having a strong tradition of getting on almost all ballots. They were on all 50 state ballots in both 2016 and 2020. It wasn’t happenstance, and it wasn’t help from the Democrats.

    If you want to see what they go through, check out Ballot Access News

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  52. “Yuck, bleech, what is that stuff? Get it off of me! I’ve got to shower and change my clothes.”

    It’s a cinch Biden Body Wash ain’t the answer.

    Ask his daughter.

    DCSCA (31e657)

  53. It wasn’t happenstance, and it wasn’t help from the Democrats.

    this is irrelevant, as asset pointed out

    the pro-democracy democrats kept G off the ballot in several key states

    JF (7e1af6)

  54. the pro-democracy democrats kept G off the ballot in several key states

    And in this election they’re doing their best to keep non-Trumpy Republicans off the ballot in swing states for an easier (meaning Trumpy) opponent to run against.

    You know about Peter Meijer. And there’s the $30 million they spent in Illinois for the Trump-endorsed geocrat*.

    I think that’s unpatriotic. I think that the voters are entitled to the best possible consolation prize. I think that it’s a worse thing than keeping loonies, G that is, from being spoilers.

    *(Why “geocrat”? He thinks votes should be based on acreage and not population. Honestly. What sane person will vote for the clown?)

    nk (099ea5)

  55. nk – i knew a guy once who believed that he should be entitled to a different vote for every piece of real estate he owned, and that the fact that he could only vote once unfairly discriminated against him. (he owned property in multiple jurisdictions and thought it was unfair that he couldn’t vote in all of them — not just in local elections, but for their state and federal elections, too).

    aphrael (a6d81d)

  56. CHINA TESTS ROCKET ENGINE FOR MOON LANDING AS SPACE RACE HEATS UP

    “China has upped its game in the space race, testing a new rocket engine that is twice as powerful as its U.S. competitor. The ground test was carried out with “complete success,” the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation said Tuesday.

    The engine will be used to launch Long March 9 rockets and propel astronauts in future missions to the moon. The Long March rockets are a family of expendable launch system rockets. It is named after an event during the Chinese Civil War in 1934 in which embattled Chinese communists broke through national enemy lines and began a fight from their headquarters in southwest China. Beijing’s newest rocket engine can produce a 25 ton-force, which is more than twice the thrust generated by the RL10, an American-made engine that is expected to take U.S. astronauts back to the moon.

    CASC called Monday’s test the “world’s largest closed expander cycle engine test run” and claimed it was a major breakthrough in the development of a key technology for launch vehicles, the South China Morning Post reported.

    Closed expander cycle rocket engines are believed to be the most efficient power source for human space travel because the engines can turn a small amount of liquid hydrogen fuel into high-pressure gas using waste heat, which then forces turbines to raise the pressure of hydrogen and oxygen in the fuel pumps. From there, the gas enters the top of the combustion chamber and is used as fuel. It is a much more efficient way than the now-used combustion process because it does not require the rocket to carry extra gas.

    The United States and China are competing to see which country can get its astronauts to the moon. The NASA-led Artemis program projects it will put astronauts on the moon by 2025. To do that, NASA has built its most powerful rocket ever, the Space Launch System, which was grounded last week. China and Russia have teamed up to build an international research station on the moon and want an astronaut on the lunar surface before 2030.” – WashingtonExaminer.com

    B-b-b-b-ut, abortion! B-b-b-b-ut transgender bathrooms! B-b-b-b-ut Fox News!

    “I think that color television is not as important as rocket thrust.” – JFK, 10/21/60

    DCSCA (55f0d3)

  57. Is harboring illegal immigrants “insurrection”?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/6/2022 @ 5:00 pm

    No.

    Rip Murdock (dc01f1)

  58. The United States and China are competing to see which country can get its astronauts to the moon.

    I’m pretty sure that race ended 53 years ago

    JF (a7cd7f)

  59. The United States and China are competing to see which country can get its astronauts to the moon.

    Been there, done that. More nostalgic cheerleading.

    Rip Murdock (dc01f1)

  60. Lest we forget:

    Joe Biden wishes Elon Musk ‘lots of luck on his trip to the Moon’

    President Joe Biden took a dismissive jab at Elon Musk over reports that the mogul has a “super bad feeling” about the American economy.

    “Lots of luck on his trip to the moon,” a sarcastic Biden said at a press conference Friday when asked about Musk’s reported views… In response to a clip of Biden’s comments on Twitter, Musk wrote, “Thanks Mr President!” and included a link to a 2021 NASA press release about the space agency selecting SpaceX to work on a future lunar mission.

    Musk has been an outspoken critic of Biden in the past, claiming that Biden favors automakers like Ford and General Motors because he is “captured by the unions” that represent workers in their factories.

    https://nypost.com/2022/06/03/joe-biden-on-elon-musk-lots-of-luck-on-his-trip-to-the-moon/

    DCSCA (55f0d3)

  61. the pro-democracy democrats kept G off the ballot in several key states

    So, they passed laws that kept one party off the ballot while the other one got on the ballot? I think you’ll find they wanted both off the ballot.

    If this is a state where the vote is going to be close, the Democrats can’t do anything at the state level the GOP doesn’t want, and vice-versa.

    It is this simple fact that allows the electoral college to work. If cheating is easy, it’s because its a one party-state and the one party won’t need to cheat to win the state’s electoral votes.

    It’s also why Trump’s deranged “Steal” claim is such a stupid lie.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  62. Rip Murdock (dc01f1) — 9/6/2022 @ 7:58 pm

    Well, then misdemeanor trespassing isn’t either.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  63. But let’s look at that link:

    insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects; also, any act of engaging in such a revolt. An insurrection may facilitate or bring about a revolution, which is a radical change in the form of government or political system of a state, and it may be initiated or provoked by an act of sedition, which is an incitement to revolt or rebellion.

    So, it does not have to be violent and it doesn’t have to be aimed at revolution. It simply has to rebel against the established authority.

    Under our constitution, immigration is purely a federal matter. Cities declaring that they will proactively nullify federal law within their jurisdictions are in rebellion, at least against federal immigration law.

    Looks like insurrection to me. It’s a slippery word, though. It’s all in the power of whomever declares such a thing is happening.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  64. I’m pretty sure that race ended 53 years ago

    I can’t decide if this is missing the point or just inane.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  65. aphrael (a6d81d) — 9/6/2022 @ 7:39 pm

    There’s lots of people who get to vote several times. Take any slate election for an at-large city council. If a bloc gets a controlling plurality, members of that block may get 6 council seats, while their opponents get none.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  66. Rip Murdock (dc01f1) — 9/6/2022 @ 7:58 pm

    Well, then misdemeanor trespassing isn’t either.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/6/2022 @ 8:30 pm

    Correct.

    Rip Murdock (dc01f1)

  67. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/6/2022 @ 8:36 pm

    More silly parsing. Your view is “Make it so!”

    Rip Murdock (dc01f1)

  68. Cities declaring that they will proactively nullify federal law within their jurisdictions are in rebellion, at least against federal immigration law.

    Cities are not “nullifying” federal law. They are just not obligated to enforce federal law. The Supreme Court ruled in Printz v. United States and New York v. United States the Tenth Amendment forbids federal “commandeering” of state (or by extension local) governments to help enforce federal law. The Trump Administration also tried to condition federal aid to punish sanctuary cities and also lost in the courts.

    Nothing prevents federal agents from waiting outside jails when illegal aliens released, and nothing prevents ICE raids in sanctuary cities. The federal government just can’t force cooperation.

    Rip Murdock (dc01f1)

  69. “Lots of luck on his trip to the moon,” a sarcastic Biden said at a press conference Friday when asked about Musk’s reported views… In response to a clip of Biden’s comments on Twitter, Musk wrote, “Thanks Mr President!” and included a link to a 2021 NASA press release about the space agency selecting SpaceX to work on a future lunar mission.

    Not only that, but his Falcon rockets are the ones putting Biden’s DoD satellites in to orbit these days. Instead of mocking Musk, President Pudding Brain ought to be on his knees thanking Musk for helping to keep this country safe.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  70. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/6/2022 @ 8:36 pm

    More:

    The Supreme Court on (March 4, 2021) dismissed, at the request of the parties involved, a trio of cases arising from the Trump administration’s efforts to withhold law-enforcement funding from so-called “sanctuary” states and cities ……

    The Department of Justice filed one petition, Wilkinson v. City and County of San Francisco, last year, asking the justices to review a ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit that the DOJ did not have the authority to impose conditions on the funds. Both the state of New York and New York City filed their own petitions, New York v. Department of Justice and City of New York v. Department of Justice, asking the Supreme Court to review a decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit upholding the conditions.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (dc01f1)

  71. Some years ago the libertarian party sued the state of indiana because they had to get 50,000 valid signatures from their party or independents to get on ballot while democrat and republican party was automatically put on ballot if they got 50,000 votes in last election. Courts ruled that all partys had to get 50.000 signatures to get on ballot. Libertarian party turned in over 50,000 valid signatures :but republican party and democrat party failed to get the 50,000 valid signatures and libertarian party demanded they not be on ballot for this failure. Indiana court ruled by republican appointed judges that not putting republican and democrat parties on ballot wouldn’t be a good thing and put them on anyway and told the libertarian party tough! This is the two parties showing the iron fist to third parties. That is why the two parties took presidental debates away from league of women voters for letting third party candidates like ross periot on the presidental debates.

    asset (7bae49)

  72. I can’t decide if this is missing the point or just inane.

    The point was missed. The engine development is quite significant. But hey, as Rotary Phone Joe said to Musk, ‘lots of luck on his trip to the moon.’ If there ever was an Alice Kramden overdue to be Ralphed skyward– it’s Lunchbucket Joe. 😉

    DCSCA (ef7d31)

  73. Here’s the ‘diehl’ Joe:

    Trump-backed Geoff Diehl will take on Democrat Maura Healey in Massachusetts governor’s race, CNN projects cnn.com

    That’s a fact, “Jack.”

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (ef7d31)

  74. Thank you very much, comrades, for waiting until Comment 58 to derail the thread of Patterico’s first post in two months, by responding to the cosplay fantasies of a troll who would not be allowed within a mile of a space facility. He will be what he is, but I really appreciate your restraint.

    nk (099ea5)

  75. Here’s a recent poll result from : As of the beginning of July, 28 percent of Americans consider themselves Republicans, 29 percent Democrats, and 41 percent independents. So, yes, independents are important.

    Out of curiosity, I went back through the pages and found that the percentage of Republicans had peaked early in October, 2004, at 39 percent.

    (If I recall correctly, since the 1930’s, only while George W. Bush was president, have the Republicans had a signficant lead in party identification — and it didn’t last.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  76. . . . poll result from Gallup, of course.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  77. @69. Not to mention taxpayer $- beginning in the Obama/Biden administration, which financed refurbishing and leasing launch facilities at the Cape for SpaceX, so dependent on government contracting to figuratively- and literally- get it off the ground. Maybe he doesn’t remember. Is his fly open? That’s our Joey.

    DCSCA (7b6beb)

  78. ‘In case of emergency, break glass and shout “Reagan!”‘ doesn’t work anymore.

    Ask Newt.

    Pitching a ‘contract w/America Deux’ won’t work either.

    DCSCA (7b6beb)

  79. nk, #74: yeah. I just gave up on commenting much because of this kind of thing. And it is a shame, since most commenters have been very kind to me, even when I disagree. That includes you, of course. Best wishes.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  80. I somewhat disagree with the notion that the GOP significantly let down its constituents in the 2008-2016 timeframe which then justified going with a less-than-qualified candidate in 2016. 2008 was an unusual election. There was a historic market crash and a lingering war fatigue that was held against the GOP which opened the door for both a Democrat President and a large Democrat majority in Congress. That in turn opened the door to health care reform that was decidedly partisan (again, a big mistake in my opinion). The GOP opposed much of what Obama did and used that opposition to eventually take back the Congress.

    Yes, the rhetoric intensified in that 2008-2016 window but in hindsight was it overwrought? One could say, well, Romney didn’t win…and he wasn’t the right type of Republican. The alternatives were Santorum, Gingrich, Ron Paul, Rick Perry, Michelle Bachman. Could Romney have been more pointed? Yes, but Obama remained personally popular, unlike Hillary…..and unlike Biden now. Romney was not such a disaster to light ourselves on fire. He professionalized the party after west Texas and Wasila…and he was well within the Overton window.

    I just don’t think the GOP is well anchored in what is politically possible and reasonable. Too many in the base right now believe goofy stuff and liked that Trump was willing to say goofy stuff. Politics is now about entertainment and gratuitous grievance…fueled by social media and the internet. Everything is exaggerated and so it’s no wonder why we arrive at a cartoonish figure that makes politics look more like reality TV. He just knew how to push the buttons, but let’s not pretend that there’s much nobility here. We had Bozo on the stage and the GOP picked him out of the crowd…and continue to think he is perfectly fine….or even required by the situation. The over-wrought hyper-ventilations of 2008-2016…monetized by Right Wing media…and accelerated by on-line media….brought us Trump. And here will he linger…..

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  81. Too many in the base right now believe goofy stuff…

    They did- for far too long; hence the purge of modern ideological conservatism and the deeping roots of populism. Both parties are at risk of having theoir podiums swiped; hence the ever-increasing number of indies.

    DCSCA (e51b36)

  82. ‘Where We Are As a Country…’

    Pentagon stops F-35 deliveries after discovery of engine part made in China

    The Pentagon has stopped delivery of F-35 fighter jets after the aircraft’s maker, Lockheed Martin, found a part used in the jet’s engine was made in China, the Defense Department and company confirmed Wednesday. – THeHill.com

    China’s Rocket Engine Launch a Success, More Powerful Than NASA’s Artemis

    https://www.techtimes.com/articles/280189/20220906/china-s-rocket-engine-launch-a-success-more-powerful-than-nasa-s-artemis.htm

    But, abortion! But, transgender bathrooms! But, Trump, Trump, Trump!

    Crabgrass.

    The house is on fire.

    DCSCA (cc022a)

  83. 63. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/6/2022 @ 8:36 pm

    Under our constitution, immigration is purely a federal matter.

    Actually, it’s not. You won’t find one word in the constitution where the Congress is given the power to regulate immigration. It’s naturalization that Congress has the power over..

    https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

    The Congress shall have Power…To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    How can someone see th word “naturalization” and hallucinate “immigration?”

    Just like Congress has the sole power to of bankruptcy and states cannot impair the obligation of debts, but it has no power to write a general commercial code so Congress does have the power to regulate foreign and interstate commerce, and defend the United States, but where does the power to reach inside the country and deport anyone come from?

    No place. It’s a hallucination.

    It wasn’t till 1876 that anyone dreamed that there was a power over immigration (although some cases declared there was a national law over ports in the 1840s. But that’s regulating foreign commerce. In 1820 the federal government began keeping statistics, but no more.

    Remember the “Know-Nothing” party in the 1950s only proposed federal laws limiting naturalization.

    Cities declaring that they will proactively nullify federal law within their jurisdictions are in rebellion, at least against federal immigration law.

    True, cities can’t. Only states, unless the sate delegates it to cities. Local government is entirely the creation of a state.

    And whatever powers are not delegated to Congress are reserved to the states or the people (Tenth amendment)

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

    Not only that, but the power to limit migration is specifically mentioned in the constitution as a state power:

    Article One Section. 9, clause 1

    The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

    Now states could treat non-citizens differently from citizens, and could treat different categories of non-citizens differently, but could not make anyone a citizen and had to treat all U.S. citizens equally – whether residents of that state or not.

    African Americans were generally not considered citizens (this was not definitively decided until the Dred Scott decision in 1857) and many states, like Ohio, prohibited the settlement of “Free Negroes” in their state. More evidence that this was a state power

    (The 14th amendment made everybody born in the United States a citizen, and in 1943, the Supreme Court ruled in Edwards vs California , 314 U.S. 160 (1941) that states could not pass laws restricting the movement of U.S. citizens from one state to another – or at least 4 justices wanted to do so and Douglas and Robert H, Jackson wrote concurring opinions anted to do so, but the Supreme Court rested that on a declaration that this was state interference with interstate commerce (California tried to criminalize bringing some people from Oklahoma to California – indigent people.)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  84. Now there is one place where states have semi-defied federal law recently – marijuana – but actually the marijuana has to be entirely grown and sold in that state. It often is taken outside the state,, and under Wickard would seem to be regulatable by the federal government but the executive has so far declined to endorse it (although Attorney General Jeff Sessions wanted to, but was overruled by President Trump – although he didn’t actually do anything about it (Trump being Trump) until he came under pressure from Senator Cory Gardner (R-Colo.)

    https://www.marijuanamoment.net/gop-senator-reveals-what-trump-said-about-jeff-sessionss-anti-marijuana-moves

    President Donald Trump immediately rebuked then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions on the day that he rescinded Justice Department guidance on federal marijuana enforcement priorities, Sen. Cory Gardner (R-CO) revealed during an interview on the Cannabis Economy podcast earlier this month.

    Following a meeting on trade and tariffs in the Oval Office, Gardner pulled Trump aside to express his opposition to the rescission of the Obama-era cannabis document known as the Cole Memo. But before he could finish his sentence, the president interrupted to say “we need undo this” and “[Sessions] needs to stop this.”

    ….In response to Sessions’s decision, Gardner started blocking Justice Department nominees until he received assurances that the federal government would not take enforcement action against legal cannabis businesses operating in compliance with state laws. That blockage prompted a subsequent phone call with the president, who said there was one nominee in particular he wanted to confirm.

    Gardner explained why he was holding nominees, to which Trump replied, “OK, you’ve got my commitment to support the bill, you’ve got my commitment to support a solution on this,” referring to bipartisan legislation Gardner and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) introduced to exempt state-legal marijuana activity from enforcement under the Controlled Substance Act.

    Trump later told reporters that he “really” supports the legislation, the Strengthening the Tenth Amendment Entrusting States (STATES) Act.

    During his conversation with the president, Gardner cautioned that states like Colorado would be put in jeopardy if the Justice Department followed through on Sessions’s threats. But Trump said, “we’re not going to do that, it doesn’t mean anything.”

    “That was the commitment from the president not only on showing that he’s going to disagree with Jeff Sessions, but actually saying, ‘don’t worry about what he’s done because it won’t impact Colorado,’ and then moving forward down for a solution,” Gardner said.

    Congress has not yet passed any law legalizing whatever a state legalizes although there are/were many in Congress who wanted to do so. But if it is not strictly necessary to pass a law to accomplish an end, Congress often doesn’t pass a law, preferring to rely on informal and semi-legal promises.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  85. Ross Douhat wrote in the New York Times over the Labor Day weekend that he doesn’t think that Biden really believes that Trump is a threat to democracy, or else he wouldn’t tolerate pushing MAGA people forward as candidates (he says he doesn’t think so also) and he wouldn’t try to conflate the abortion issue to opposition to Trump/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/03/opinion/joe-biden-democracy-crisis.html

    The ultimate blame for nominating those unfit candidates lies with the G.O.P. electorate, not Democrats. But in the debate about the risks of Republican extremism, the debate the president just joined, it’s still important to judge the leaders of the Democratic Party by their behavior. You may believe that American democracy is threatened as at no other point since the Civil War, dear reader, but they do not. They are running a political operation in which the threat to democracy is leverage, used to keep swing voters onside without having to make difficult concessions to the center or the right.

    ..[the case for Biden giving the speech he did] requires private beliefs that diverge from Biden’s public statements: In particular, a belief that Trumpism is actually too weak to credibly threaten the democratic order and that it’s therefore safe to accept a small risk of, say, a Trump-instigated crisis around the vote count in 2024 if elevating Trumpists increases the odds of liberal victories overall.

    And he says that belief would be right, because, citing a magazine article that went into democratic backsliding he says that

    1) involves a popular leader and

    2) a dominant party winning sweeping majorities in multiple elections, gaining the ground required to entrench their position and capture cultural institutions,

    3) all the while claiming the mantle of practicality and common sense.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  86. Trump won the GOP nomination in 2016 because the “base” was tired of “leaders” who refused to address their concerns. By this I mean Bush, Cheney, McCain, Romney, Ryan. Trump beat “the strongest field in Republican history.” Trump beat every one of them, one after another.

    To repeat what I commented previously concerning Trump’s drawbacks: He talks too much, thinks out loud, says stupid things into an open microphone. He should have conceded the weekend after the election, stressed his accomplishments. He blew the two Georgia senate races giving the Dems the Senate. The January 6 “rally” would accomplish nothing and resulted in disaster.

    He’s too old to run again. His energy for a man his age will run out. He may have a health issue. He may not be alive in 2024. The best thing Trump can do for the GOP is for him to shut up and go away.

    DN (69ae6e)

  87. @85 Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/7/2022 @ 12:08 pm

    Sammy, the legalize marijuana laws in the states is unambiguously a federal crime. It’s just that the federal prosecutors are simply not chasing it down.

    It’s still a clear cut crime.

    whembly (b770f8)

  88. A violation of federal law which has not been repealed, or even partially repealed.

    But everyone important in Washington seems content to tolerate the status quo

    There is only a possible question of constitutionality But the Supreme Court would have to overturn some decisions

    https://www.atlassociety.org/post/medical-marijuana-and-the-law-reefer-madness-meets-wickard-v-filburn

    June 2005 — In the medical-marijuana case Gonzales v. Raich, </i? the Supreme Court ruled (on June 6, 2005) six to three that federal laws criminalizing drug possession applied even to persons using homegrown marijuana, or cannabis, for medicinal purposes under sanction of state law. Although the case may seem to involve issues of personal liberty, it really involved a question about federal power—the scope of Congress’s power under the Interstate Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. The six-justice majority decided, in effect, that Congress’s powers under this clause were almost limitless….

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  89. > It’s still a clear cut crime.

    The *federal* criminalization of marijuana (and other drugs) strikes me as being problematic.

    The power to regulate drugs is not explicitly called out in Article 1 Section 8, so it must arise from one of:

    * the general welfare clause (“to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States”)

    * the commerce clause (“to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the indian tribes”)

    * the necessary and proper clause (“to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers”)

    The text of the Controlled Substances Act makes it clear that it is based on the commerce clause:

    “Federal control of the intrastate incidents of the traffic in controlled substances is essential to the effective control of the interstate incidents of such traffic”, Title 21 Chapter 13 Section 801.

    The power to control the *intrastate* use of a good whose *interstate* commerce Congress wishes to ban was first recognized by the Supreme Court in the 1940s, in an infamous-among-conservatives case holding that a man could be fined for growing his own seed wheat rather than purchasing it from the market.

    This case was a cause celebre among conservatives throughout my youth and twenties, because it seemed like an absurdly overbroad interpretation; how can granting the power to *regulate interstate commerce* be a grant of power to *regulate the intrastate possession and use of ANYTHING*? with that broad a read on the commerce clause, the federal government is simply no longer a government of limited powers.

    This went to the Supreme Court in the context of the controlled substances act, in 2005. It was a 6-3 decision, with the majority written by Stevens and joined by Kennedy and liberals; a concurrence from Scalia; and dissents from O’Connor, Rehnquist, and Thomas.

    The five person majority flatly held that a law that punishes purely intrastate activity is constitutional as long as the law was passed as part of a comprehensive regulation of interstate commerce. *Scalia* reiterated that non-economic activity can be prohibited as part of an attempt to regulate interstate commerce.

    The opinion was fascinating in part because in the late 90s and early 00s, Scalia and Rehnquist had been pushing for a wholesale reconsideration of the limiting power of the commerce clause, and the court had struck down several laws for exceeding Congressional power under the Commerce Clause — but here, in a case that presented a full frontal assault against a legal principle conservatives had loathed for decades, Scalia and Kennedy switched sides.

    I would be shocked if the new conservative judicial activism didn’t eventually lead to a reconsideration of this legal principle.

    aphrael (d9db76)

  90. RIP Murdock, at 68: a reminder that Printz was a *conservative* decision, written by Scalia, and dissented from by the three liberals.

    Somewhere along the line the conservative movement seems to have stopped caring about the federal government staying out of the business of states. It’s been bewildering and hilarious to watch.

    aphrael (d9db76)

  91. I see posters here are starting to agree that reagan conservatism has been dying out for decades. As AOC said they have the money we have the voters. Conservatives had the money and the establishment. They also had conservative media like talk radio. What they didn’t have was 70% of the republican party that was populist and only social conservative not economic libertarian or neo-con interventionist. Conservative buying republican presidential nominations because populist candidate didn’t have funding died in 2016. Their are still posters here who demand populists come to their senses and start voting against their self interests again for the benefit of the wealthy donor class who are their betters.

    asset (4c3ace)

  92. “1) A NM trial court judge is not competent to judge how a federal law should be applied here, nor does he have jurisdiction in applying it.”

    – Kevin M

    The federal judge who remanded the case to Judge Mathew disagrees with you. The plaintiffs in the case lacked Article III standing, which is necessary for federal jurisdiction. Lacking Article III standing, the plaintiffs’ statutory quo warranto claims were properly remanded to the NM district court (which is a court of general rather than specific jurisdiction).

    To your second point – there are extensive findings of fact in the opinion detailing exactly how Couy Griffin “engaged in insurrection” or “gave aid and comfort” in support thereof. He may be properly disqualified on either basis.

    Leviticus (0b3763)

  93. Good stuff, aphrael.

    It amazes me that, in “the land of the free” and a country that espouses “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, the federal government can tell someone he can’t grow and consume certain plants on his own property. I think the Founders would be aghast at the notion.

    Anyone who purports to be for freedom, and yet thinks marijuana should be illegal, suffers from cognitive dissonance.

    norcal (da5491)

  94. Hey Leviticus, I haven’t seen you here in ages. I hope things are going well for you and your family.

    norcal (da5491)

  95. @90 aphrael (d9db76) — 9/7/2022 @ 1:44 pm

    @91 aphrael (d9db76) — 9/7/2022 @ 1:49 pm

    @94 norcal (da5491) — 9/7/2022 @ 3:06 pm

    I absolutely do see a case could go to SCOTUS for the commerce clause to be overturned.

    But, ye gods, that would be one of the more modern, consequential changes if the commerce clause could be overturned.

    Similarly, but more arcane, when Chveron is overturned. (it’s coming ya’ll).

    whembly (b770f8)

  96. whembly (b770f8) — 9/7/2022 @ 3:11 pm

    I never thought I would see it, but the brilliant, “originalist” Scalia got it wrong, while Thomas got it right.

    norcal (da5491)

  97. The judge’s judgment in the Couy Griffin case. It’s most interesting past halfway down where the judge discusses what “insurrection” has historically been held to mean in the United States.

    nk (19f27f)

  98. Not that I looked for it, but I doubt that a state’s laws failing to mirror federal laws is in there.

    And I was worried about AOC getting arrested for protesting Dobbs at the Supreme Court (women who can bring home $2 million a day don’t grown on trees you know), but it turns out she was not arrested, she was only doing her Marcel Marceau impression of a person being arrested.

    nk (19f27f)

  99. Question: For those that think Trump is wretched, is there any member of Congress you think is more wretched? I don’t and I was a constituent of Maxine Waters for over a decade.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  100. The judge’s judgment in the Couy Griffin case. It’s most interesting past halfway down where the judge discusses what “insurrection” has historically been held to mean in the United States.

    And he was convicted of none of them. This was a civil trial which levied a criminal punishment for a crime the defendant had not been convicted of.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  101. I never thought I would see it, but the brilliant, “originalist” Scalia got it wrong, while Thomas got it right.

    I thought that Raich worked that way too.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  102. The federal judge who remanded the case to Judge Mathew disagrees with you

    The federal judge only said that the state had to act before there was a case at the federal level.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  103. To your second point – there are extensive findings of fact in the opinion detailing exactly how Couy Griffin “engaged in insurrection” or “gave aid and comfort” in support thereof. He may be properly disqualified on either basis.

    And again is has not been determined that the state court has any say in it. All the federal judge said is “First, you need something to appeal.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  104. I note that he is charged with being part of a mob that did things, but not doing them himself. He was convicted only of trespassing, which normally does not remove one’s civil rights. Yet the state court removed some of his civil rights without the benefit of a criminal trial, a jury of his peers, or a conviction of a charge that ITSELF involves insurrection.

    Now, maybe he should not demand that, as he seems to have gotten into quite a bit of mischief, but a regime where civil rights can be remove on simple assertions of “fact” without criminal charges or due process is a really scary one.

    But I guess in defending the Constitution, a few trees need to be cut down.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  105. That is a good question about the procedure and standard of proof for this particular disability.

    I propose that it is an administrative procedure, same as age, citizenship, residency, and number of signatures on the nominating petition; and that the procedure is due process, the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (maybe clear and convincing evidence), and the burden of proof is on the plaintiff as in every other case.

    Madison Cawthorn’s case was brought before the state’s Board of Elections, but was quashed by a federal district judge early on. MTG was tried by an “administrative law judge”, and the burden of proof he demanded was preponderance of the evidence, which the plaintiffs did not meet. All I bothered to look up about Bigs and Gosar in Arizona is that they were tried by a “judge”.

    nk (73c566)

  106. Now, if it was Trump seeking re-re-election, I think that whatever Mr Griffin did, President Trump did it more. But even then, as much I as I want to see Trump’s broken body on the gibbet, I would want him to be convicted of inciting to riot at the minimum before he was disqualified. Seditious conspiracy would be better.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  107. No “criminal punishment” was levied in this case. Wherever that’s being pulled from, it’s not from the facts or law of the case itself.

    Leviticus (236b87)

  108. Michigan republican leaders tell republican poll workers to ignore voter laws if they think democrats are voting illegally. (ap) CNN.

    asset (2af0a2)

  109. @100

    Question: For those that think Trump is wretched, is there any member of Congress you think is more wretched? I don’t and I was a constituent of Maxine Waters for over a decade.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 9/7/2022 @ 4:55 pm

    Easy…Adam Schiff.

    whembly (b770f8)

  110. @100. Question: For those that think Trump is wretched, is there any member of Congress you think is more wretched? I don’t and I was a constituent of Maxine Waters for over a decade.

    Answer: ROFLMAOPIP is there any member that isn’t?!?! Start with the Wicked Witch of the West and work your way down.

    Storm the castle.

    DCSCA (c6e4b8)

  111. Easy soft ball. paul gosar dishonorable mentions gaetz mtg bobert.

    asset (45655d)

  112. No “criminal punishment” was levied in this case.

    Removing a right accorded to ever citizen is what then?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  113. Ah! There is good news tonight. South carolina senate despite republican majority rejects making abortion illegal in state. More good news Michigan supreme court allows pro-choice abortion initiative on november ballot. Bye bye michigan rethugliKKKans!

    asset (8e7785)

  114. ‘Where We Are As a Country’…

    Woman beheaded by sword in San Carlos

    SAN CARLOS, Calif. (KRON) — A woman was beheaded Thursday in San Carlos, KRON4 has confirmed. She was killed in the area of Laurel Street and Magnolia Avenue at 11:50 a.m. The woman was beheaded by a man with a sword. The suspect, an adult male, was detained and has since been placed under arrest for murder, according to the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office. The woman was 25 years old, KRON4 confirmed through a source. Authorities said the woman had two juvenile children; their ages were not disclosed.

    San Mateo County authorities say the suspect and victim knew each other, and this incident is believed to be an isolated incident.

    DCSCA (527b92)

Leave a Reply


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2170 secs.