Sen. Graham Warns: There Will Be Riots In The Street If Trump Is Prosecuted
[guest post by Dana]
Is Sen. Lindsey Graham, who believes that when it comes to Donald Trump, “there is no law, it’s all about getting him,” actually warning that the former president should *not* be prosecuted for mishandling classified information even if it is warranted because there will be “riots in the street” if he is? Is he warning the DOJ that the law should not be followed because there will be an unwanted reaction to it? I’m old enough to remember what happened when the former president signaled his base with a similar “wink and nod game plan of indirectly encouraging violence” because he too refused to accept what was legitimate and lawful.
Graham says there will be riots in the streets if Trump is prosecuted pic.twitter.com/oE6MyuqjeA
— Acyn (@Acyn) August 28, 2022
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (1225fc) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:35 amIf the price of living in a nation of laws is blood in the streets then that’s what we will have to pay.
Jan 6 showed us Trump supporters will commit violence in support of lies.
That doesn’t mean letter political leaders escape criminal prosecution.
It’s a shame Graham didn’t use the opportunity to point out that Trump is a rich man with access to great legal representation in a system that gives him the presumption of innocence and assure his audience that the right thing to do is trust the the courts and the constitution. But that’s not who or what the GOP is any more.
Time123 (387349) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:40 amWhether it’s a prediction or threat, it’s irresponsible either way.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:41 amGraham may have bigger things to worry, like getting indicted by the Fulton County DA. I guarantee there won’t be any rioting if that happens.
I remember when conservatives disapproved of people who threatened violence to get their way. I guess that was the defunct conservatism that “didn’t conserve anything.”
Radegunda (cd2ebf) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:43 am“The public (understandably) may wish to sidestep the minutia of the mandates of the Presidential Records Act, but three top-line takeaways prove imperative to understanding the scandal of the Mar-a-Lago search. First, the Presidential Records Act is not a criminal statute, and violations of that federal law do not constitute a crime. Second, the Presidential Records Act does not reach broad swathes of documents retained by a former president, including ‘official records of an agency,’ ‘personal records,”’ and convenience copies of presidential records. And third, the courts have refused to question a former president’s conclusion that a record constitutes a ‘personal record’ and not a ‘presidential record.'”
https://thefederalist.com/2022/08/29/redacted-mar-a-lago-affidavit-confirms-bidens-doj-fished-for-a-crime-to-pin-on-trump/
Colonel Haiku (df9ffc) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:47 amBut great legal representation apparently doesn’t want to represent Trump.
Radegunda (cd2ebf) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:47 am@5, that’s an interesting legal argument. Maybe Graham should have sites that to asset that Trump would prevail if charged. But he didn’t. He said Trump’s supporters would resort to violence.
Time123 (387349) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:50 am@4, I’ve heard that. Seems like a problem money will solve.
Time123 (387349) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:50 amSpeaking of legal representation who won’t work for Trump, Rad…
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:50 am“But great legal representation apparently doesn’t want to represent Trump.”
Given threats made by Democrats, NeverTrump and their brown-shirted operatives to those who have represented Trump, not much of a shock.
Colonel Haiku (df9ffc) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:51 am“If the price of living in a nation of laws is blood in the streets then that’s what we will have to pay.”
LOL… try the decaf.
Colonel Haiku (df9ffc) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:59 amOne of the Rules of the MAGA movement: “any bad outcomes are the result of a vast conspiracy.”
I miss the party of Personal responsibility.
Time123 (387349) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:01 amPaul,
I think it can be both a prediction and warning.
Dana (1225fc) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:01 amIt’s a nice sidestep by one of Trump’s biggest water carriers, Haiku. Far as we know, the warrant affidavit references three laws under the US Code, none of which involve the PRA.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:09 amAlso, any document marked Confidential or higher are, by definition, not personal records as they are not “purely private or nonpublic character”. They belong to you and me, and Trump stole them.
It should also be noted that it’s up to the president to separate personal records from presidential records.
Trumpers are trying hard to find skullduggery by DOJ and pronounce Trump “as innocent as a person can be,” but NARA and Justice were trying for more than a year to persuade Trump to turn over official records — including, as we know, many documents marked at the highest level of classification. Then they got a subpoena, but that didn’t suffice. Trump submitted a false affidavit claiming he had no more classified docs in his possession. Then he claimed “all they had to do was ask and I would have handed them over,” which was also a lie, because they had been asking and he had been resisting for over a year.
We know that Trump’s White House counsel told him he should not take all those docs with him.
We have insider testimony that Trump didn’t understand the importance of keeping some things secret, and we saw some public examples of his recklessness with classified information while he was president.
We now know that multiple witnesses plus surveillance tape have given the FBI information that alarmed them.
If Obama had done anything like this — intermingling highly classified documents randomly with newspaper clippings, spiriting them away, storing them in a place that’s a rather easy target for spies, and refusing repeated entreaties to hand them over — Trumpites would have demanded that he be burned at the stake.
If Trump did nothing wrong in his handling of sensitive national-security information, why did he put forward that cockamamie story about a “standing order” that anything he carried into the private quarters was automatically declassified? Which was obviously a lie, because NO ONE else who worked in the White House had heard about it – and such a crazy idea would have prompted a threat of mass resignations.
Furthermore, anyone who thought such a reckless notion would be a plausible and reasonable defense is not to be trusted with sensitive national-security information.
Those who overlook that astounding combination of mendacity and lunacy to keep defending Trump to the bitter end are not serious people.
Radegunda (cd2ebf) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:10 am@15, agreed their not serious people. But as Sen Graham has told us, they’re violent and the love trump enough to commit violence in his name.
Time123 (387349) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:20 amThose darned nuclear secrets!
Colonel Haiku (df9ffc) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:20 amHaiku, what specific threats have “NeverTrump and their brown-shirted operatives” (!!) made to lawyers representing Trump? I saw that Dersh was fuming about not being invited to something, but are Alina Habba and Lindsey Halligan being flooded with death threats?
There is abundant evidence of Trumpites sending death threats to officials who cross Trump — members of Congress, LE, even election workers. It’s Trumpites who have been calling for civil war. Trump himself, at least since January of this year, has raised the specter of violence if he’s held to account under the law.
I was a Republican for pretty much the entirety of my voting life until Donald Trump and the fanatics who defend him no matter what he does turned the GOP into a cynical, openly amoral party that justifies violence to get its way.
Radegunda (cd2ebf) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:22 amGraham is a clown.
Anyone “warning” that there would be riots if “x” is done… is clowning.
But, if Trump gets treated any differently than HRC, or even Sandy Berger. I don’t want to hear from anyone who poo-poo’ed the idea that’s there is a partisan 2-tiered justice system.
whembly (b770f8) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:34 am#3
Lindsay is not a target of the Fulton County DA investigation. Giuliani is, though. I do wonder when the locals will subpoena Trump, because that is the logical endpoint of all this. And I wonder if he would take the 5th.
Fortuantely, the Fulton County courthouse is in a cruddy part of town, and is real close to the local detention center, should the riotous people come to riot.
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:38 amFrom the Weekend Open Thread:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:40 amFrom the weekend open thread:
Related:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:43 amWhembly, don’t you think we should have some detailed knowledge of what he actually did (and how similar it was to Hillary & Berger )before we say if he should be treated the same?
Time123 (4dfe82) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:51 amLawdy- he gots the vapors.
A genuine, real-life “Drama Queen.”
And how.
DCSCA (e3aba6) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:55 amSource
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:55 amWatching Trump and his legal team reminds me of what Nixon would have done if wiser voices had not counseled him to quit
DRJ (22eb3c) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:57 am@23
That’s not my argument.
Having said that, I’m still having a hard time believe that the FBI felt that the HAD to execute the warrant, without seeking other less explosive efforts.
I still believe it’s either a) an over-zealous administrative went overboard and now there’s a whole lot of CYAs in motion, or b) a fishing expedition for the J6 committee or c) this was a pretext to claw back the copies of the Crossfire Hurricane documents to reclassify them, even tho in the waning days of Trump’s presidency, he issued an EO to declassify.
Either a, b or c (or all of them) are far more likely, imo, than some serious misconduct over classified documents.
whembly (b770f8) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:58 amGraham’s hands aren’t clean, not after his call to Raffensperger to see if the GA SecState could throw out mail-in ballots in certain GA counties. I think there’s good reason why he’s fighting like heck to avoid testifying under oath to a grand jury.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:58 am“As in the past, there is a disturbing symbiosis of the media and activists feeding off each other. When Biden was viewed as the likely winner, the theories of voting irregularities swiftly turned into conspiracies. Groups such as the Lincoln Project targeted law firms and created a campaign to force lawyers to abandon the current president as a client.
This effort has resulted in Twitter blocking the Lincoln Project for targeting lawyers in a tweet that was denoted as abusive. The Lincoln Project is said to have also joined Democrats in targeting law firms like Porter Wright and threatening its attorneys with ruin. It claimed that any law firm working for Trump with election litigation is a “dangerous attack” over our democracy. But trying to strip people of counsel is the real attack. The law firm bucked and cited new internal struggles and at least one resignation.
This campaign to intimidate the lawyers who represent Trump is not about vengeance but rather insurance. Even if the success of these cases is very small, his opponents do not want to risk the judicial scrutiny of the ballots. Posts on social media targeted clients of law firms such as Jones Day, and the Lincoln Project pledged $500,000 to make the lives of these lawyers a living hell. It is the kind of tactic which is used by antifa and other activists to “deplatform” speakers or harass individuals at their homes.“
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/525970-the-lawless-fantasy-to-oust-all-the-election-lawyers-of-donald-trump/
It seems the tolerant aren’t so tolerant… https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/08/the_latest_smear_on_donald_trump_he_cant_find_a_respectable_lawyer_to_defend_him.html
Colonel Haiku (df9ffc) — 8/29/2022 @ 12:07 pm#28
The Fulton County DA has explicitly said Graham is not a target. I would like to see him visit ATL. I also hope that any hearings on his Federal cases become public because it does seem like he would have to be pretty specific on what he and Brad R talked about and what legislative purpose Graham really was fulfilling.
In other news, Brian Kemp (Governor) will have to testify but not until after the election.
Appalled (9fb29b) — 8/29/2022 @ 12:14 pmThe government tried negotiations and a grand jury subpeona. What other “less explosive efforts” could there be?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 12:38 pm@31 Enforce the subpoena under the threat of contempt.
Did that happen?
whembly (b770f8) — 8/29/2022 @ 12:57 pmPaul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:50 am
this is the same lawyer who represented defense counsel for a Guantanamo detainee accused of terrorism
so, it’s nice to see him draw a line somewhere
JF (4211f7) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:01 pmThats why riot guns and tear gas were invented. Maggots didn’t like the way democrats handled the george floyd riots.
asset (e48b83) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:04 pmthe template for handling these kind of statements is already out there, so let’s follow it
Traditional media yawns as Maxine Waters gets pass on inciteful rhetoric
JF (4211f7) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:10 pmSpeaking of hypocrisy gov. gavin newsome threatens to veto farm workers union organizing bill after buying 14.5 million dollar vinyard in napa valley.
asset (e48b83) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:14 pmAt least he’s not saying he wants riots in the street.
So it’s a prediction and not a threat. Except that Lindsay Graham is lying. He’s making it up all up. MAGA people don’t riot. At least not in the street.
They’re not BLM or Antifa, and he knows it..
They can maybe riot at government offices. Not in the streets, destroying ordinary stores. Except many have been prosecuted.
What got into him that he wants to prove his loyalty to Donald Trump so much? Because, in some other ways, he’s working against him, so he doesn’t want Donald Trump to be suspicious?
Time123 (387349) — 8/29/2022 @ 10:50 am
Graham was talking about a possible prosecution, not for violating the Presidential Records Act, but for mishandling classified information, which he seems to believe the evidence shows that he did.
(Trump’s defense to that is that anything he took out of standard secure storage, or maybe from the White House, was automatically declassified, so that particular law, which was not mentioned in the search warrant, does not apply.)
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 12:38 pm
It’s said they could have gone into court to enforce the subpoena (which also would lead to a search??) or get a show cause order to Trump and/or his lawyers that they should not be held in contempt. But they didn’t trust Trump. Also, anything they did publicly would have alerted foreign intelligence agencies that there might be something interesting to them in Mar-a-Lago.
Of course, mixed in with a ton, or at least several dozen pounds, of other material and unfoldered as it was [it shows a lack of clear thinking that the FBI didn’t seem to realize that things were better that way] and not digitized, they would have a hard time combing through it with a secret camera looking for gold. Someone would have had to have a lot of time – they’d have to be practically an authorized biographer.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:15 pmThey’ve now leaked that they think there might be some classified documents at Trump’s other places, like in Bedminster, New Jersey, also.
Trump claims that anything they would have asked for he would have turned over.
But there’s a catch to that claim (repeatedly asserted with the same words)
You have to know its there to ask for it. Of course that was Trump’s problem also in asking to look at anything.
They should not assume anything was compromised, if that’s what they’re doing. They can probably tell most of the time if something was compromised.
And neither should they assume that’s the only way something could be compromised.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:18 pmTrump re- truthed Lindsay’s “prediction” to his followers, Sammy. I know you have a problem believing that Trump would ever encourage his followers to do anything violent, but long experience suggests otherwise.
MAGA people do riot when the leader tells them to. See January 6 tapes for details.
Appalled (3b5801) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:21 pm@35 “If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen!” Truman. Waters was attacked by faux noise and right wing radio. Eugene Debs was put in jail. Corporate establishment media is ally of the democrat party establishment. Where do you think the term yellow journalism came from? See the movie network.
asset (e48b83) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:22 pmAbsolutely. This really is the ultimate hypocrisy: If Obama had committed any of Trump’s egregious actions, including withholding highly classified documents despite requests, subpoenas, and an eventual search of his residence, there can be no doubt that the reaction of MAGA World would be entirely different than what we are seeing.
Dana (1225fc) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:29 pmA grand jury subpoena was served, but apparently Trump did not fully respond:
Source; footnotes omitted.
I doubt a criminal contempt charge for failing to comply with a subpoena would have been a “less explosive” option.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:29 pmTrump’s followers are convinced that the FBI has manufactured dirt on him several times in the past and can be expected to view any “evidence” the produce now as planted.
To them, the FBI has a “Fuhrman” issue and cannot be believed. I would expect there would be serious potential for jury nullifiers and any trial.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:34 pmBut great legal representation apparently doesn’t want to represent Trump.
I am certain that he will draw excellent counsel. OJ did, and OJ had fewer supporters. The problem will come up
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:37 pmifwhen Trump tries to run the defense.She makes a lot of people uncomfortable, especially a lot of men, and quite frankly, especially a lot of white men, because she puts them in their place.”
Imagine being her white male constituent, as I was, due to a gerrymander.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:39 pmThat will be tough if the video of the search is ever released. You can bet that the DOJ will subpoena it for trial.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:39 pmBut great legal representation apparently doesn’t want to represent Trump.
I would think that a refusal by top attorneys to represent Trump would be a scandal in itself.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:45 pmThat will be tough if the video of the search is ever released. You can bet that the DOJ will subpoena it for trial.
Doctored.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:45 pm@44 Political trials are problematic. Jury pool will be major factor. All black jury in washington d.c. or trump supporters on jury elsewhere.
asset (e48b83) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:47 pm> I would think that a refusal by top attorneys to represent Trump would be a scandal in itself.
The man has a long history of stiffing contractors, and a recent history of publically abusing people who work for him. He couldn’t pay me to do *anything*, and it has nothing to do with the merits of his legal claim — he’s an odious client at best, and I cannot imagine why anyone would be willing to work with him.
aphrael (158e65) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:07 pmThe same forces that got OJ freed will be working in Trump’s favor. This is a situation were logic and evidence struggle to overcome bias and froth.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:18 pmhe’s an odious client at best, and I cannot imagine why anyone would be willing to work with him.
Would you have defended Larry Flynt? Whatever happened to “everyone deserves counsel for their defense.” As I said, given that lawyers stood in line to defend Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, top lawyers refusing to defend Trump would be a scandal.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:22 pmIf Obama had done anything like this — intermingling highly classified documents randomly with newspaper clippings, spiriting them away, storing them in a place that’s a rather easy target for spies, and refusing repeated entreaties to hand them over — Trumpites would have demanded that he be burned at the stake.
You just don’t get it. Obama was swampy establishment; Biden swampy scum as well; Bush, Cheney, etc.. Clinton, Graham, Schumer, Pelosi, McConnell… Establishment all. These clowns buy $10 billion aircraft carriers then sell them for a penny a piece for scrap rather than refit for East/West coast hurricane/disaster relief vessels yet send billions down a Ukrainian rathole. Trumpers; populists– recognize who the enemy is.
Storm the castle.
DCSCA (88d9d3) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:23 pm@51 My point exactly.
asset (e48b83) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:23 pmtop lawyers refusing to defend Trump would be a scandal.
Not to mention putting all members of that profession in the Trumpist’s sights. These are very angry people.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:23 pm@42 “The DOJ issued a grand jury subpoena to the National Archive”
Doesn’t this lend itself to the fact that this is a civil dispute, under the Presidential Records Act, rather than a criminal act?
Furthermore, a contempt of court, particularly in civil court, would be MUCH better and understandable than what had happened.
But hey, I’m just a guy warning about the Rubicon, Overton Window, conventional wisdom here.
Future ex-Democratic President isn’t going to like the new rules.
whembly (b770f8) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:26 pmAll black jury in washington d.c.
Arguably not a fair trial, and it would be argued that way. Look at this as the flip side of the Chicago 7 trial. Polarizing, even with the best of evidence. And it had damn well be a crime that people see as a crime. If it’s something akin to overdue library books, the polarization will be extreme.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:27 pmBut hey, I’m just a guy warning about the Rubicon, Overton Window, conventional wisdom here.
The real problem is, of course, that Trump brought his army across the Rubicon on Jan 6th. That colors everything.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:32 pm> Would you have defended Larry Flynt?
Could I have trusted him to *pay my bills*? That’s not guaranteed, with Trump.
Worse yet, with Trump you run a good chance of having your future earnings potential destroyed and/or being subjected to death threats *from his supporters* when he decides he is no longer happy with your performance.
Would *you* be willing to work for a man who you couldn’t rely on to pay you and who might, in a fit of pique, endanger your life or destroy your future earning potential?
aphrael (158e65) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:32 pm> And it had damn well be a crime that people see as a crime.
There is *no* crime which Trump could be prosecuted for which his supporters would believe is a crime. That ship has sailed, and in their minds, anything he does is automatically both legal and *moral*, because he did it.
aphrael (158e65) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:33 pmThere are still people in between.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:40 pm“@51 My point exactly.”
asset (e48b83) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:23 pm
The “strangest of bedfellows” or “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”?
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:42 pmI think they got copies, not the originals.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:43 pmFuture ex-Democratic President isn’t going to like the new rules.
There probably won’t be a non-senile one of those until 2041.
urbanleftbehind (0900f9) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:47 pmThe lovely and talented Lindsey has earned a week in a locked gym with a bare-chested Vladimir Putin… and an oil drum.
“You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.” He added, “I’d rather lose without Donald Trump than try to win with him.” -Lindsey Graham. Now h’es double-parked so far up Trump’s butt his headlights are shining out The Donald’s nostrils. Lest we forget:
On December 21, 2015, Graham suspended his presidential campaign, due to lack of support and poor polling, and on January 15, 2016, endorsed former Florida Governor Jeb Bush. After it appeared certain that Donald Trump would become the Republican nominee in May 2016, Graham announced that he would not vote for Trump or Hillary Clinton, commenting: “I think Donald Trump is going to places where very few people have gone and I’m not going with him.” In May 2016 Graham tweeted, “If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed…and we will deserve it.” On November 8, 2016, Graham announced that he had voted for Evan McMullin.
In November 2017, Graham criticized the media’s reporting on Trump: “What concerns me about the American press is this endless, endless attempt to label the guy some kind of kook not fit to be president.” (In February 2016, Graham said of Trump: “I think he’s a kook. I think he’s crazy. I think he’s unfit for office.”)
DCSCA (88d9d3) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:50 pm“Former Washington Field Office Special Agent in Charge Tim Thibault was reportedly escorted out of the Bureau’s headquarters on Friday, amid whistleblower allegations that he showed political bias in his handling of politically sensitive investigations.
The Washington Times reported eyewitness accounts that “Mr. Thibault was seen exiting the bureau’s elevator last Friday escorted by two or three ‘headquarters-looking types.'”
Whistleblowers alleged that Thibault concealed the partisan nature of evidence from FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Merrick Garland to secure their approval to open an investigation into former President Donald Trump. That investigation culminated in the FBI’s raid on Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month.
…
Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley confirmed to Just the News prior to the raid that Thibault had been removed from his post and reassigned to an unspecified position.“
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/400725.php
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/29/2022 @ 2:55 pmThere is *no* crime which Trump could be prosecuted for which his supporters would believe is a crime
There are crimes that would not sell well, and would make the “martyr” claim easier to argue. If, for example, he was prosecuted for not returning politically sensitive presidential records. Or mundane ones like his doodles.
We have not prosecuted presidents in the past, even though every last one of them has broken laws. Just not laws that anyone really cares about. Although it’s probably good that FDR didn’t live long enough to pay for the Japanese Internment. Or LBJ for concocting the Tonkin Gulf lie.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:04 pmAnd a useful reminder for Biden supporters (i.e., Democrats, NeverTrump, MSM)…
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/trumpprisonagain.jpg
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:04 pm@66: Investigation of allegations is different from proof of wrongdoing. Given the allegation, he would have to be suspended from the investigation, but there would be powerful institutional bias in his favor, lest much face be lost.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:07 pm“Normally, being “walked out” means you’re under either FBI OPR or DOJ IG investigation (or both) and the offenses you’re suspected of mean you will be terminated if found culpable. It prevents you from tampering with evidence or intimidating witnesses. No badge, no credentials, no gun, no Bureau car, all accesses revoked. “On the bricks” is the common colloquialism. You are for all intents and purposes no longer a sworn federal law enforcement officer.”
—- Greyman27
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:11 pmWould *you* be willing to work for a man who you couldn’t rely on to pay you and who might, in a fit of pique, endanger your life or destroy your future earning potential?
Well, I would want a substantial retainer and Mar-a-Lago as collateral.
And William Kunstler never let angry rednecks scare him off.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:11 pm“Greyman27”
What better source could one want?
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:22 pmNeither were crimes. At the time the Japanese internment was upheld by the Supreme Court, and lying to the public is not a punishable offense. Impeachable, maybe, but not criminal (unless you can cite whatever law was violated). The internment was quite popular with Americans:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:22 pm@68: I could make the same thing up for John Gotti.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:22 pmEven then there was a strongly-worded dissent:
In 1983, the conviction of Korematsu was reversed, on the basis that the Supreme Court was given been given a selective record of the trial and conviction. The judge found prosecutorial misconduct in the actual record and reversed the conviction.
In 2011, the DoJ denounced the then-solicitor general, stating that he has lied to the Court and suppressed evidence.
Quotes and info from the Wikipedia article
The solicitor general, for one, could have been charged with a crime. Perhaps FDR didn’t know the Court was being lied to.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:34 pm74… Junior, yes, but doubtful on Senior.
He’s been dead for several years.
Keep digging… that pony’s just gotta be in there.
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:38 pmRip, Comey left out another situation where people are prosecuted: their carelessness led to the exposure of the information. He probably left that out because her server was probably accessed by foreign players.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:53 pm“only a very small number of the emails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information”
In part because there was a practice of redacting the classification markings.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:54 pmThere’s that “obstruction” charge again. Beloved by lawyers and literally no one else, and it’s the public you have to convince.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:55 pmFor sometime, there has been MAYHEM & RIOTS in the streets of America. Here is the latest example.
Queens, NY: Shock VIDEO – Totally innocent disabled man [Milton Storch – 59] sitting in wheelchair on sidewalk – fatally run over by young black gangster thug female driver – from brawl started in bodega with other gangster thug black females
https://www.newswars.com/shock-video-disabled-man-fatally-run-over-during-brawl-at-nyc-bodega/
This was/is the product of Barack Obama’s fundamental transformation of America, his Hope & Change and his comment, “If I has a son, he would look like Trayvon.” See the movie THE TRAYVON HOAX: Unmasking the Witness Fraud That Divided America.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=movie+The+Trayvon+hoax&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQAw5ykIPOBM
Neither Lindsey Graham nor Donald Trump had anything to do with that, nor the BLM/Antifa riots that were much worse and well preceded January 6, that were ignored by the Dem party, Biden, Harris, Pelosi, Schumer and the Fake Lames Stream Media.
So where Uncle Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Merrick Garland, Nancy Pelosi,Chuck Schumer, FAke News, etc., been regarding this violence, mayhem and cultural ROT? CRICKETS…………………..
Blaming Trump (and his supporters) is so tired, warn out and lame. You gotta get a better argument. Moreover, he beat your Trump/Russia collusion, Impeachment #1, Impeachment #2 and is turns out that the FBI/Big Tech/Big Media/Big
Intelligence all plotted & schemed again to interfere and affect the outcome of the 2020 Prez election – and Donald Trump did win it!
Donald Trump: Declare Me Rightful Winner or Redo ‘Fraud’ 2020 Election
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/29/donald-trump-declare-me-rightful-winner-or-redo-fraud-2020-election/
And now, no one with two (2) ticking brain cells trusts Biden, Garland/DOJ, Wray/FBI or the CIA and other intelligence agencies and fraudsters.
SPIES WHO LIE: 51 ‘intelligence’ experts refuse to apologize for discrediting true Hunter Biden story
https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/intelligence-experts-refuse-to-apologize-for-smearing-hunter-biden-story/
Finally, as USDC Judge Lynn Hughes stated, “Honesty comes hard to the government. …. [@809]. U.S. v. Edwin P. Wilson, 289 F. Supp. 2d 801 (SD,TX, 2003) https://www.leagle.com/decision/20031090289fsupp2d80111004
Liberty & Truth require constant vigilance. GLZ.
Gary L. Zerman (2ae670) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:57 pmToo bad for Trump, JF, he could’ve used Zaid he not burned that bridge.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:57 pmSo, per Berger, you’d be good with Trump being prosecuted and sentenced to a fine, probation and community service? Because Graham seems to think Trump’s violent cultists won’t sit still for that.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:05 pmWhembly, I’d be more concerned about norms and justified retaliation if there was any evidence that Trump, or his supporters based their views of appropriate retaliation on things that actually happened. As it is, have at it.
Time123 (5bf537) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:13 pmCall it the “politician’s privilege.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:22 pmWould *you* be willing to work for a man who you couldn’t rely on to pay you and who might, in a fit of pique, endanger your life or destroy your future earning potential?
Lifted from a recruiting poster nailed up in Boston tavern by a George III Royalist Redcoat for Washington’s Continental Army no doubt. 😉
DCSCA (cdf0e8) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:27 pmtrump broke his promise to put Hillary in prison (among most of his other promises)
he broke that promise so he could use this argument and protect himself.
Dustin (a87c64) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:28 pmThere Will Be Riots In The Street If Trump Is Prosecuted
Snicker. Which street in which town? It won’t be my street in Chicago, I guarantee that.
It will be Elegy Avenue in Bug Tussle. And I hope the DOJ shows some mercy and does not indict until the weather is cooler. All those 35+ BMI Trump supporters coming down with heat stroke and not enough paramedics, ambulances and emergency rooms within a 100-mile radius.
nk (1eede4) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:32 pm“he broke that promise so he could use this argument and protect himself.”
Miss Cleo has spoken?
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:37 pmMark S. Zaid is a whistleblower lawyer, among other things. He was one of Alexander Vindman’s lawyers. His problem with Trump is jealousy. Zaid has made a career of trying to make America look bad in the eyes of the world, and every day Trump outdoes him with a single tweet.
nk (1eede4) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:37 pmBoth Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz were reasonable politicians at one time. They were even erstwhile critics of Trump. Alas, no more.
I miss the former split between right and left. It was easier to choose back then. Now the choice is a poisonous con man or the bad policies of the left.
Why, it was just the other day that Graham put forth a resounding defense of Brett Kavanaugh.
Now Graham has devolved into this.
norcal (da5491) — 8/29/2022 @ 4:52 pmI guess I must be psychic because I did indeed point this out a few years ago. Also pointed out Trump was a lifelong democrat who would spend like a drunken sailor and generally be incompetent, since his idea of the best secretary of state ever on foreign policy was Hillary Clinton.
But I guess to me that was just kinda obvious and readily observable. Nobody was surprised Trump s*** the bed on COVID and any other serious issue. Just like Biden, except Biden knows how to curbstomp someone in an election.
The one reason the FBI really raided Trump was to ensure he doesn’t go away. To ensure the democrats are running against Trump. It’s obvious why. Otherwise, this election would be brutal for democrats who, like Trump, are total failures.
Dustin (a87c64) — 8/29/2022 @ 5:27 pmAfghanistan on fire. Now Iraq on fire. Good job.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/29/2022 @ 5:28 pmSo much winning, Rob!
Seriously… these guys are making it obvious that they can’t discern Shiite from Shinola®
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/29/2022 @ 5:43 pmAfghanistan on fire. Now Iraq on fire.
Mister, we could use a man,
Like Haroun-al-Rashid again.
Yeah, it’s our fault. Saddam Hussein was a strong leader. He had control of his country.
nk (1eede4) — 8/29/2022 @ 6:25 pmJoe biden is not a leftist. Like clinton he is a rockefeller/john lindsay liberal republican. Had Trump been a true free trade conservative like reagan instead of a populist he would have never carried michigan, pennsylvania, iowa, wisconsin with bernie sanders supporters voting for him to win those states and would not have got elected president. what about the crumbs he throws to the left you say? Biden does that to keep the “REAL” left wing of the party at bey. Remember the squad loathes clinton/biden /pelosi as much as they do trump if not more!
asset (096ec9) — 8/29/2022 @ 6:41 pmJoe biden is not a leftist. Like clinton he is a rockefeller/john lindsay liberal republican.
Not in this Universe. Step away from the bong; apparently you know little of his 45 year history in and around the Delmar region and his ripples of incompetence that lapped against the shores of Cape May and South Jersey area. He’s a bag boy for banks- the ol’MBNA for certain– and no where close to being a Lindsay/Rockefeller styled liberal Republican– and certainly not like ‘Clinton’ at all.
DCSCA (137fb9) — 8/29/2022 @ 7:00 pmBoth Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz were reasonable politicians at one time.
No. Such. Thing.
DCSCA (137fb9) — 8/29/2022 @ 7:01 pmAs I mentioned the last time you said that, Dustin, it’s a popular myth.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/29/2022 @ 7:02 pmMemo to Attorney General; Barney Fife
Subject: Trump indictment
As The Big Dick said to Ike:
‘Sh!t or get off the pot.’
DCSCA (137fb9) — 8/29/2022 @ 7:05 pm@71 I heard william kunstler speak at my jr. collage. He talked about the trial of jesus. By the way the publisher of pardon felon dinesh de’souza’s book 2000 mules has pulled the book from sales to remove slanders that got thru in a publishing proof reading error, so the publisher doesn’t get sued. The dominion voting lawsuits are making publishers think twice!
asset (d70760) — 8/29/2022 @ 11:14 pmD’Souza was prosecuted for offending Obama and not much more. He did something stupid to make a friend happy and they made a federal case out of it. It was political.
That being said, 2000 Mules make me sad.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 12:14 am@101 At least he wasn’t shot like fred hampton and mark clark or other black panthers. Or Goodman, cheney and schwerner. The kent state students. They all would have liked to be treated like dinesh d’souza. Breaking news Unlike poorly run liberal states the well run conservative state of mississippi is out of drinking water. Don’t drink the water! Says the gov.
asset (d70760) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:18 amDon’t drink the water! Says the gov.
And he’s right! Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face.
Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water, asset? No, you have not. And you never will. Vodka. That’s what they drink. Never water.
On no account will a Commie ever drink water and not without good reason. It’s the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
It’s incredibly obvious. A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That’s the way your hard-core Commie works.
Drink only distilled water or rainwater and clear grain alcohol, asset! And I thought you already knew all that, anyway.
nk (b15d7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 5:39 amAbsolutely. This really is the ultimate hypocrisy: If Obama had committed any of Trump’s egregious actions, including withholding highly classified documents despite requests, subpoenas, and an eventual search of his residence, there can be no doubt that the reaction of MAGA World would be entirely different than what we are seeing.
Dana (1225fc) — 8/29/2022 @ 1:29 pm
you need not bother with hypotheticals
according to WaPo, a “senior administration official” leaked classified info to kickstart the bogus russia collusion investigation lasting two years
not a peep from nevertrump about this misuse of classified info
by all indications, they were giddy about it
JF (16a2d8) — 8/30/2022 @ 6:53 am@58
That’s absolutely right.
But, it’s sad that we have to remind folks that just because “x” did something bad, YOU shouldn’t do bad things either.
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 7:10 am@82
1) I’m not MAGA.
2) Graham is a clown and there isn’t anything I can do as he’s South Carolina’s problem.
3) If DOJ was able to find a “Berger”-like crime, yes I’d be perfectly fine with Trump receiving the same punishment. That’s what I mean when I said ” if Trump gets treated any differently than HRC, or even Sandy Berger”….
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 7:14 am@83
See. This is why we’ll never see eye-to-eye.
You still view the Russian Hoax investigation as something having legitimacy, and not that anti-Trumpers where using the PROCESS as punishment, which hamstrung an administration.
I don’t want an “appropriate” retaliation.
I don’t want any retaliation.
But, you can only poke people so much before something snaps.
When the next GOP administration takes control, not saying it’ll happen, but I’m not going to shed tears when the FBI/DOJ is nuked from orbit in a “spoils of war” scenario whereby GOP operatives are installed in these positions, as the current civil service protections would be on the chopping-block, or at least heavily modified.
Imma just going to sit here and be obnoxious by saying “I told ya’ll so…”.
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 7:22 amTeh Biden Bunch have been cultivating their own MAGA…
Make
America
Go
Away
Given enough time, they’ll make a hash of this as well.
Colonel Haiku (ee1817) — 8/30/2022 @ 7:31 amwhembly,
I suspect Graham is trying to threaten the Fulton County DA without saying so as much as offering a general calling out of the flying monkeys on this other matter. I have a feeling that the Administraton just wanted their stuff back and that will be an end to it, so long as Trump didn’t try to peddle the material. Graham probably thinks the same. Graham knows he will likely be having to travel on Atlanta on urgent personal business.
The national media is fixated on the Feds, for good reason. Still, the Trump investigation making the most progress is in Fulton County, where the Governor does not have pardon authority and where Trump did some fairly raw stuff in propagation of his big lie. If Trump does time, it will be down in Reidsville, rather than Club Fed.
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/30/2022 @ 8:04 amDespite the Trump’s legal team’s sloppiness… McCarthy simply blasts the DOJ here:
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 8:22 amhttps://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/justice-department-bulldozes-court-on-trump-privilege-claims/
But Mueller did show that Russia did meddle in the 2016 election, including the hacking and leaking of Democrat emails to the advantage of Trump. Trump also shifted the GOP’s rhetorical stance toward Russia and was weirdly complementary to Putin. He then fired Comey “over the Russian thing”. Even much of the GOP saw a valid motivation for the investigation if for nothing else but to show that there was no Russian influence. The fact that we have to go back and repeatedly reinvent facts shows how dysfunctional the GOP has become. JUST MOVE ON….
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 8/30/2022 @ 8:25 am@111 Way to miss my bloody point.
The Russian Hoax wasn’t premised on the idea that Russia didn’t interfere.
It was premised on the idea that Trump was a puppet of Russia, as some sort of Manchurian candidate, that Trump couldn’t POSSIBLY of won of the election w/o Russian interference. Aka, an actual collusion to steal the election.
Neither Mueller, no anyone else, has found any sort of collusion or conspiracy, as much as some of ya’ll desperately want to hold on to.
Nevermind how bad a candidate HRC was…
So, no, I’m NOT going to “JUST MOVE ON…” to accept the gaslighting about this.
I’m a guy who really doesn’t have an ideological party anymore. I’m just a transactional voter, who’s currently anti-Democrat right now.
I don’t aspire to venerate our political leaders anymore. They’re nothing more a tool to support/promote my preferred policies.
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 8:34 amNo, it was premised on the actions of Papadopolous, and followed up by the release of DNC emails, and it’s why an Inspector General concluded that the investigation was properly predicated.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 8:46 amThere was also intel from a high-level Kremlin mole that Putin intended to instigate a “sweeping and systematic” effort to launch a cyber-propaganda attack on America, with the purpose of sowing chaos and discord (check) and helping Trump win (check).
@113 The walls are closing in on Trump.
Amirite Paul?
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 8:50 amNo, the walls are crumbling bit by bit, revealing him more and more. Out of the shadows and into the light.
nk (b15d7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 9:01 amIf you say so.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 9:07 am🌲…
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/trumpprisonagain.jpg
Colonel Haiku (0f4d0e) — 8/30/2022 @ 9:13 amAnd he’s right! Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face.
General Ripper was a prophet!
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:28 amAbsolutely. This really is the ultimate hypocrisy: If Obama had committed any of Trump’s egregious actions
Hypothetical whaddaboutism is probably worse than actual whaddaboutism.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:29 amBut, it’s sad that we have to remind folks that just because “x” did something bad, YOU shouldn’t do bad things either.
It’s even sadder when we have to remind folks that just because you think “x” wanted to do something bad, YOU shouldn’t do bad things either.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:31 amYou know when fluoridation first began? Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It’s incredibly obvious, isn’t it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That’s the way your hard-core Commie works.
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:31 amIt was premised on the idea that Trump … couldn’t POSSIBLY [have] won of the election w/o Russian interference. Aka, an actual collusion to steal the election.
Wnen and given day of the NY Times or Washington Post’s attack pieces had more effect than anything Putin could have done. You really have to go back and look at the WaPo in October 2016 to see the lengths that paper went to attack Donald Trump. Far more than even he deserved, if you can believe that.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:36 am*When any
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:36 amSince nk did not apologize to Stanley Kubrick…I won’t apologize to him.
(No fighting please..this is the war room!)
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:37 amPoliticians….and any leaders….should avoid even the appearance of corruption. Our system should not apologize for asking our leaders tough questions and holding them to account. Trump was not a politician that had been vetted over multiple elections with a resume of competently serving his constituents, strong character, and doing the right thing. Instead, he has a public record of shady business dealings, suspect personal decisions, and being foremost self interested.
Investigations happen. I think it’s a reasonable question to want to know if a foreign adversary has leverage over our top elected official. What do you propose as an alternative? If you’re uncomfortable with Trump being investigated maybe nominate someone with a better record…..and who doesn’t act like an entitled mob boss….
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 8/30/2022 @ 12:10 pmLest We Forget: AUGUST 30, 2021
Biden ripped for apparently glancing at watch during ceremony for fallen troops
President Biden has come under fire for apparently glancing at his watch during a solemn ceremony at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware for the 13 US troops killed in the terror attack near the Kabul airport… During the event, he placed his right hand to his chest as the flag-draped coffins were carried off the Air Force C-17 Globemaster plane… “Looks like he was being inconvenienced by having to show some respect for these American Heros [sic],” Samuel Williams, a disabled US Army veteran, said on Twitter… “It’s true. Joe Biden checked his watch during the dignified transfer of the servicemembers killing in Afghanistan at the airport,” columnist Nicholas Fondacaro wrote… You can see him jerk his left hand to pull the watch out from under his sleeve, then look down at it,” he added.
Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee wrote: “Many of us remember Pres Bush 41 checking his watch during a debate and how awful it looked (even though we all felt same way about that debate.) But this is shocking and will be remembered.”… Foreign policy analyst Nile Gardiner, director of the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom at The Heritage Foundation, said that “there is nothing more important than paying your respects to America’s fallen war heroes, Mr. President.”…
Former White House doctor Rep. Ronny Jackson (R-Texas) said in a tweet: “Apparently our Commander-in-Chief has better things to do than honor the 13 service members who died on his watch? “I’m DISGUSTED! God bless these heroes and their loved ones. They deserved better,” he added.
The 13 troops who were killed in Kabul had been assisting with the evacuation of Americans and Afghans after the swift fall of the country’s government. Among the casualties were 11 Marines, one Navy corpsman and one Army soldier. The victims ranged in age from 20 to 31, including 23-year-old Marine Sgt. Nicole Gee, who was captured last week in a photo cooing over an Afghan infant.’– source, https://nypost.com/2021/08/30/biden-ripped-for-apparently-looking-at-watch-at-troops-ceremony/
And this shower-with-your-daughter-creep is going to foul Independence Hall with a pigeon dropping lecture on the ‘soul of america’??? When this demented, steaming POS finally lightens the load on the planet, and every house cat on the planet vies for a spot in line to follow their instincts with carcass- the rest of America will have their heads bowed– staring at their watches.
DCSCA (9ef72d) — 8/30/2022 @ 12:16 pm“I went to every major school shooting around the country.”- Squinty McStumblebum
Really? And how many times did you check your watch??
IDIOT.
DCSCA (9ef72d) — 8/30/2022 @ 12:58 pm@125
It’s not the initial investigation that I had issues with, nor really have a problem with.
It’s the apparent partisan rationale for continuing the investigation, even when rank & file questioned why the investigation was continuing. The big, red flag here was that the investigation was managed by “the 7th floor” leadership, when SOP is to let the rank & file conduct the investigation with normal oversight.
You’re right that we, as primary voters, must do a better job in nominating better candidates. Abso-fricking-lutely.
Hence why these past few months, I’ve been banging on that drum that GOP primary voters should be ready to coalesce behind a “not-Trump” candidate NOW who can win.
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:05 pmBiden implies MAGA Republicans killed police officers.
Corn Popped, Joe?
DCSCA (9ef72d) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:09 pm“What are we teaching our children? – Squnity McStumblebum
How to shower with our daughters, eh Joey?!?!
IDIOT.
DCSCA (9ef72d) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:10 pm“I’m opposed to defunding the police. I’m opposed to defunding the FBI!” – Squinty McStumblebum
Uh-huh. Protecting druggie Hunter; raiding Mar-A-Lago.
IDIOT.
DCSCA (9ef72d) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:13 pmR.I.P. Mikhail Gorbachev
‘We will bury you.’ – Nikita Khrushchev
DCSCA (7c89b3) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:47 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Gorbachev#/media/File:RIAN_archive_428452_Germany_becomes_one_country.jpg
DCSCA (7c89b3) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:51 pmLest we forget:
Margaret Thatcher’s assessment of Gorbachev became international news, a first opinion of this future key figure. When Margaret Thatcher stated that she “could do business together” with Gorbachev, she was attempting to influence both the United States and the Soviet Union. For the United States, it was a subtle rebuke of President Reagan’s vocal attacks on the Soviet Union that had been making news in an election year. Her further comments on the possible role for Great Britain concerning the ongoing disarmament talks was another attempt to guide U.S. foreign policy. For the Soviet Union, Thatcher’s praise of Gorbachev was an attempt to influence the choice of a successor for the current President, Konstantin Chernenko. This one interview demonstrates Britain’s attempt to influence the potential end of Cold War hostilities. – source, https://worldhistorycommons.org/margaret-thatchers-views-mikhail-gorbachev
DCSCA (7c89b3) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:54 pmTime magazine named Mikhail Gorbachev its “Man of the Decade” Saturday, calling the Soviet leader “the force behind the most momentous events of the ’80s” and the man responsible for ending the Cold War. – https://www.deseret.com/1989/12/24/18837899/time-calls-gorbachev-man-of-the-decade
DCSCA (7c89b3) — 8/30/2022 @ 1:55 pmHow Gorbachev and Reagan’s Friendship Helped Thaw the Cold War
The two leaders recognized in each other the desire to move past tense politics and end a nuclear standoff.
One was an avid capitalist, an actor-turned-U.S. president determined to quash America’s nuclear arms race with the Soviet Union’s “evil empire.” The other, a young committed communist who rose through the political ranks to lead the USSR, pushing publicly for reform. But Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev, unusual bedfellows as they may have been, managed to forge not only a mutual respect, but a friendship, which helped end the Cold War.
“I think, frankly, (that) President Gorbachev and I discovered a sort of a bond, a friendship between us, that we thought could become such a bond between all the people,” Reagan told journalists in Moscow during a visit in 1990.
In his book, Dear Mr. President … Reagan/Gorbachev and the Correspondences that Ended the Cold War, historian Jason Saltoun-Ebin writes that confidential letters between the two world leaders forced the men to “talk, debate, argue, disagree, but also offer proposals even when they thought no agreement would be possible.”
“Both Reagan and Gorbachev recognized that change was coming, and both wanted to be on the right side of history,” he writes. “But they needed to find a way to overcome forty years of Cold War ideology. They needed to find a way to trust each other.”
More than 40 letters, many hand-written, and four summits in just over three years were key to building that trust. In his autobiography, An American Life, Reagan writes: “As I look back on them now, I realize those first letters marked the cautious beginning on both sides of what was to become the foundation of not only a better relationship between our countries but a friendship between two men.”…
“If Brezhnev had lived another six years, Reagan would have made no progress on arms control,” he says. “Reagan needed someone to meet him halfway. He found this person in Gorbachev.”
https://www.history.com/news/gorbachev-reagan-cold-war
DCSCA (7c89b3) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:04 pmThe man seriously needs sleep.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:17 pmThe man seriously needs sleep.
Or to just … drop off.
nk (b15d7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:39 pmLord Almighty…
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1564704589865254916
Biden: “For those brave right-wing Americans who say [the 2nd amendment] is all about keeping America independent and safe, if you want to fight against the country, you need an F-15. You need something more than a gun.”
Unbelievable…
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:41 pmHe’s improving. He left out the nukes this time.
nk (b15d7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:49 pm@141
Huh? You sure you aren’t thinking of Eric Swalwell’s tweet?
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:54 pmhttps://twitter.com/RepSwalwell/status/1063527635114852352
@138 I hope everybody reads this message from Trump (and please note the time).
How can any serious, intelligent person see Trump’s use of ALL CAPS and exclamation points and still consider him worthy of the office of President? I mean, it’s a glaring tell. He’s a petulant child inhabiting a 76-year-old body.
Yes, yes. Socialist policies are harming the country. Then pick a more mature person on the right to rally around.
If you can’t see how ridiculous Trump is, you should ask yourself if you are an unwitting cult member. (The thing about cults is that the cult members don’t realize they’re in a cult.)
norcal (da5491) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:57 pmBiden. On June 23, 2022, as reported by Newsweek on YouTube.
nk (b15d7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:58 pmJune 23, 2021
nk (b15d7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:00 pm@144 Oh wow… and heh.
Here’s my response to Biden and to those supporting his rhetoric:
whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:01 pmhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbcBAIIagAAbwE7?format=jpg&name=small
nk @144.
Biden is slightly exaggerating, (but maybe noot for the case of the U.S. government)
Maybe not F-15s and nuclear weapons but The Kurds certainly needed more in 1991 than ordinary weapons against Saddam Hussein.
They needed air support.
So did the Afghan government.
And Ukraine.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:06 pmAlexander Hamilton didnt think an untrained militia was of much use, even then:
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed29.asp
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:09 pm@146. Oh yeah?? Wow… and heh: here’s my response to Biden and to those supporting his rhetoric:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dm9rN6oTs
DCSCA (35679e) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:13 pm@140: Contrast to the late Mikhail Gorbachev, who surrendered the State to the People when they finally rose.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:15 pmChina is very afraid they could have a Gorbachev
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:16 pmGorbachev’s response to Biden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcyaNScYWZo
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:16 pmYes, yes. Socialist policies are harming the country. Then pick a more mature person on the right to rally around.
Reagan’s dead, norcal. If only righties had supported stem cell research and cloning. 😉
DCSCA (35679e) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:18 pmThey were operating under time constraints!
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:19 pmIf only righties had supported stem cell research…
They did. Just not from aborted fetuses. Vampirism. But it turns out that your own cells make a better starting point anyway.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:21 pmMany of us remember Pres Bush 41 checking his watch during a debate
Also know as a “cheap shot.” He was probably checking to see where they were in the debate.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:22 pmBiden: “For those brave right-wing Americans who say [the 2nd amendment] is all about keeping America independent and safe, if you want to fight against the country, you need an F-15. You need something more than a gun.”
Really, Joey?
DCSCA (35679e) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:24 pmHowzabout a $10 thumbdrive w/a computer virus; or a Chinese bug released from a Wuhan lab partly financed by U.S. taxpayers. Yeah, aa F-15 outta stop that. GBet on your rotary phone and make lunch reservations w/Beau, Joe.
I have heard leftists say that Stalin subverted the Revolution and what he build wasn’t True Communism. Whatever the truth of that, it’s clear that Putin and the KGB subverted the path of Russia and are recreating Stalin’s rule.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:25 pmShades of Never Let Me Go.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:26 pmHow Trump regains power before 2025:
1. The GOP overwhelms the Democrats and sweeps both houses of Congress.
2. Trump elected Speaker of the House.
3. Biden and Harris are impeached and convicted
4. Trump president, and can run AGAIN in 2024.
I’ll bet against. Any takers?
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:29 pm78/ Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/29/2022 @ 3:53 pm
That’s what they kept on saying — that it was more vulnerable – but that is absolute nonsense.
There never was an email system that was more secure than Clintonemail.com.
It had the following security features:
1. No backdoor password reset.
2. No dictionary attack feasible because the password was generated by computer.
3. No phishing possible in any case since no phishing email would be plausible.
4. Access only from certain devices = a form of two factor authentication – since she almost certainly didn’t even know the password.
5. Limited thruput.
6. SYSOP Justin Cooper was on duty in Chappaqua, New York, who could temporarily shut down the whole server in case server gets attacked.
To which I can add, what Hillary used as a talking point that (actually that was true only until 2013)
7. It was guarded by the Secret Service – as were the documents Donald Trump was keeping in 2021-2 at Mar-a-Lago. The Secret Service were preventing a physical burglary, and that
is worth something.
Another reason I can add is that:
8. No one attempting to take over the server even knew what software it was using.
So what if the Russians had her secret email address? They couldn’t, AND THEY DIDN’T read her email. But only the DNC server and John Podesta’s gmail account. (or else they would
have leaked some of it)
Her system was way more secure than state.gov
That was especially the case during the interval when she had newly installed anti-phishing software at state.gov temporarily disabled in 2011 because her messages were not getting through.
She had it disabled until Bryan Pagliano – he later took the 5th amendment – was able to secretly whitelist HDR22@ClintonEmail.com. Z(without it appearing on a list of whitelisted emails)
Clintonemail.com had to be very, very secure. Evidence of crimes was probably on it.
And it was secure against subpoenas as well.
It existed in the first place probably to make sure that no evidence of criminal activity could unintentionally or accidentally find its way onto government servers.
I don’t think avoiding FOIA requests is enough to explain it.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:30 pm“How can any serious, intelligent person see Trump’s use of ALL CAPS and exclamation points and still consider him worthy of the office of President? I mean, it’s a glaring tell.”
But were there any emojis employed? All caps and abuse of exclamation points are terrible in their own right, but use of emojis would call for the 25th amendment avenue.
Colonel Haiku (98a353) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:39 pm“How can any serious, intelligent person see Trump’s use of ALL CAPS and exclamation points and still consider him worthy of the office of President? I mean, it’s a glaring tell.”
YOU”RE JUST A COMMIE!!!!
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:46 pm106. whembly (b770f8) — 8/30/2022 @ 7:14 am
What Berger did was he stole documents out of the national Archives. They were suspicious of him there for some time.
What he got caught at was removing the after action report about the Millenium plot. This was to enable him and Clinton to lie to the 9/11 commission. Bill Clinton wanted to take credit for stopping it. In reality, it was stopped accidently — and because once part of it was exposed, al Qaeda dropped the rest.
https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/millennium-plot-ahmed-ressam
One Customs agent actually. There wasn’t any problem with him entering the country — just what he was taking along. And he acted nervous.
Clinton wanted to claim he had told people in the government to be on alert. No such thing ever happened. The report would of course not have included any such thing.
Berger did not steal the only copies but the very copies that were going to go to 9/11 commission which he, as Bill Clinton’s agent, was going to look at first.
He may have stolen the only copies of other things. But anything incriminating he probably would have removed before Clinton left office.
What Donald Trump did is more like what Alexander Butterfield did. He took a lot of documents with him, when he left in 1973, including classified documents, some of them the only copy, like Nixon’s handwritten evaluation of the progress of the Vietnam War. Bombing had accomplished xilch, Nixon wrote.
It’s in Bob Woodward’s book “The Last of the President’s Men”
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:50 pmIt was Lenin who subverted any genuine ideology.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:51 pmWhen Senator Graham lost his patron, John McCain, he decided he wanted to get close to Donald Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 3:53 pmBreaking news-
(CNN) The uncrewed Artemis I mission will get another attempt at launching on a journey around the moon on Saturday.
The two-hour launch window opens at 2:17 p.m. ET on September 3.
The current forecast for Saturday includes a chance of showers and thunderstorms in the morning and early afternoon hours, so the launch team will keep a close eye on the forecast, said Marc Berger, launch weather office with the US Space Force’s 45th Weather Squadron. There is a 60% chance of a weather violation during the launch window, Berger said. There is still a backup opportunity for the Artemis I mission to launch on September 5 as well.
DCSCA (35679e) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:00 pmMAGAWorld approves.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:00 pmhttps://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2017/nr17-18
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:01 pmThey still don;t want to admit they’ve got a problem with fuel leak?
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:03 pmLindsey Graham is a patron. Strom Thurmond’s successor. With twenty years in the U.S. Senate, ten years in the U.S. House of Representatives, and two years in the South Carolina Statehouse before that. He’s sticking with Trump because Trump has coopted his base.
nk (b15d7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:05 pmWhat sucks is Trump’s fans will not shut up about him. It’s all they care about. The Dems gave the GOP the bait with that raid, and it’s working.
Instead of an election about Biden, inflation, foreign policy disasters today, it’s about a demented loser begging for a new election years after he got curbstomped like a b.
Oh well. Hard to get too wrapped up in politics anymore.
Dustin (5f21c1) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:13 pm“Yes, yes. Socialist policies are harming the country. Then pick a more mature person on the right to rally around.”
The cadaver you people helped elect and still rally ‘round is the level of maturity winning your hearts and minds.
“Trunalimunumaprzure!”
—- Dementia Joe Biden, GGPOTUS
Colonel Haiku (98a353) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:14 pmMike Davis
“Attorney Garland Merrick Garland just sent out a message to everyone at the Justice Department,
ordering no one may contact Congress. (My source: Congress.)
Why didn’t he order a similar gag on the inappropriate and illegal Justice Department leaks to the media?
Colonel Haiku (98a353) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:23 pmCoverup.”
Aug 30, 2022
@170. Actually, if you listen to the mission managers in the media teleconference, they not only did admit it– they copped to knowing it was a potential issue when doing the wet dress rehearsals after some design changes. So they’re working procedural patch-work plans.
As much as I’ve wholly support NASA HSF ops for decades, it pays to be wary of these managers today- many of whom are more bureaucratic-minded engineers and less management competent. Competence in both fields is a rare mix; Von Braun had it; Mueller, Debus, Kraft, Low, Lunney, Kranz, Kapryan, Petrone, Gilruth, Seamans, etc., and most of the key Saturn contractor development team did as well. [Because, as we know, ‘our Germans were better than their Germans. 😉 ]
This situation has a wiff of ‘Challenger’ and ‘Columbia’ management coming from it. The base hardware isn’t “new” – the engines are shuttle-era tech as are the SRBs. It’s just been stacked differently- w/t core tank[s] and the payload the new hardware. But the problems aren’t w/the spacecraft- it’s w/t hydrogen propellant fueling system.
They’ve known the problem exists- as with the O-ring blow-by and the tile issues- but they seem to have a mind set to do develop “work arounds” and live with the problem rather than stand down, fix it right– then fly. It’s why the first ‘all up’ test flight of A/S 501 rolled out in November, 1967 and launched on time w/o a hiccup– and Artemis 1 did not. And Nelson’s a Biden lackey kiss-ass. For those interested, keep watch on these managers and their decision-making processes.
DCSCA (35679e) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:34 pm“Yes, yes. Socialist policies are harming the country. Then pick a more mature person on the right to rally around”
Your advice is worth every penny of what one would pay for it.
Colonel Haiku (98a353) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:38 pm@176. That’s essentially what I posted in #175, Rip. Only they’re going for another try on Saturday. At least they’ll draw a Labor Day weekend crowd. But the beancounters outta add up the labor expenses on a scrub as well as the price of the propellant dumps and re-tanking costs. Unless you wanna treat America’s Artemis like a Ukraine toilet and flush down billions into it…
That’s the era we’re in now.
DCSCA (35679e) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:47 pmGarland’s memo regarding approval from the DOJ Office of Legislative Affairs to contact Congress is nothing new. It is part of the Justice Manual formerly known as the United States Attorneys’ Manual (USAM).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/30/2022 @ 4:52 pm@103 my handle is asset not jack d ripper! It is microbes in the water not flouridation.
asset (51b4c3) — 8/30/2022 @ 5:00 pmThe Mississippi River is overflowing and flooding the surrounding area. Maybe AOC went down there and cried into it.
I don’t know whether the flooding overwhelmed the water purification plant or the dirty water is leaking into the distribution system. Either way, a boil order is not the same as no water.
nk (069b1c) — 8/30/2022 @ 5:29 pmYes, yes. Socialist policies are harming the country. Then pick a more mature person on the right to rally around.
That’s the thing–who, exactly? Pretty much any candidate who shies away from the culture war is just running a vanity campaign, and the old neocon guard is terminally allergic to fighting in that arena. Fiscal conservatism is a dead horse that can’t be beaten anymore, and the base is no longer interested in pumping blood and treasure in to foreign adventures.
The party’s nominee is going to have to run on the core tenet that the Democrats are a party of snitches, busybodies, and wokescolds who hate you, want to alienate your children against you by indoctrinating them that mental illness is something to be celebrated, will sit back and let you and your communities be robbed blind by crooks and drug addicts, and won’t stop until they’ve forced you to parrot their ideology at the risk of your livelihood, just like Mao’s Red Guard did.
If you can’t see how ridiculous Trump is, you should ask yourself if you are an unwitting cult member. (The thing about cults is that the cult members don’t realize they’re in a cult.)
norcal (da5491) — 8/30/2022 @ 2:57 pm
Everyone can see how ridiculous he is. But the left hates his guts, and it’s in their interest to keep him front and center, because he’s the current Emmanuel Goldstein for Hollywood, academia, and the newsmedia. If DeSantis, Youngkin, Haley, or whomever end up being the nominee, then the same treatment will be applied to them–because it’s been this way for about 50 years now. Nothing wrong with wanting someone different from Trump, but it’s important to recognize this and be prepared to hit back twice as hard if he’s not the guy carrying the torch.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/30/2022 @ 5:32 pmUS Army Grounds Entire Fleet of 400 Chinook Helicopters
‘(Bloomberg) — The US Army has grounded its entire fleet of some 400 CH-47 Chinook transport helicopters after engine fires broke out on a few of them, a spokeswoman for the service said Tuesday evening.’
And how many of these workhorses are in civilian use or have been sold to NATO members, Taiwan, Saudis, Japan, Israelis– and assorted allies as well?
… and Putin smiled. Xi merely grinned.
DCSCA (5e5e1a) — 8/30/2022 @ 6:07 pm@181 Maybe AOC went down their and cried into it. You mean like when she went down to texas and raised 10 million dollars in 5 days to help the hungry freezing people of texas while ted cruz partied in cancun. She cares more about the people of this country then southern rethugliKKKans care about their own people. In the book take up space she is flatteringly compare to jesus as many would like to crucify her.
asset (51b4c3) — 8/30/2022 @ 6:13 pmMs. Lynch is working through the 40-page DOJ response and, assuming their statements are true (and I’m leaning that way), only makes a stronger case that Trump and his lawyers obstructed the FBI investigation.
The bold part is mine. This irresponsibility in handling classified and confidential materials is worse than Hillary, IMO, and the obstruction compounds it. Trump should go to jail for this. Please, conservatives and Republicans, drop this guy. He’s bad for country and party and whatever rags that are left of the conservative movement.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 10:35 pmAnd to add to the irresponsibility, the photo is damning…
Tangentially, David von Drehle watched how Trump dealt with documents, as unread props, not unlike how he held that Bible in front of that church.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 10:48 pmGet rid of him, for the good of God, country and party.
And the RINO blows his horn.
Have they looked in the mayonnaise jars hidden in the Mar-A-Lago pool house?
LOOK! There’s a picture of Barbara Bush’s butterscotch brownie recipe!
Found at last!!!
DCSCA (74c24c) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:14 pmGet some help, DC.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/30/2022 @ 11:15 pmHere’s another take, from a former federal prosecutor and not a reporter…
Yes, Trump’s lawyers will be on the hook. I’m guessing Giuliani and Cohen and Powell know how that feels.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/31/2022 @ 12:31 am@188. And the RINO blows his horn. Seems the only ‘folks’ who “need help” are desperate Attorney General Barney Fife, Archivist Otis Campbell, FBI Director Warren Fergeson and Judge Ernest T. Bass.
Barney! Order Otis to check under all the box lids to see if Bess Truman’s top secret pot toast recipe was taped to the bottom of any of ’em!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJYgNqOFBLk
DCSCA (9e3858) — 8/31/2022 @ 1:50 amStill trying obstruction when it’s proven the FBI has had their hand pressed down on the scales of justice. Keep dreaming.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/31/2022 @ 4:15 amYou mean like when she went down to texas and raised 10 million dollars in 5 days
asset, I confess that I misjudged you.
I thought your admiration of AOC was prurient. But a woman who can bring home $2 million a day? Now I have a crush on her myself.
I’m sorry. I apologize.
nk (069b1c) — 8/31/2022 @ 5:45 amNo one at DOJ pushed Trump to steal, conceal and obstruct.
Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/31/2022 @ 8:05 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/31/2022 @ 9:20 am
How can you say it was untrue that that was what she was told?
Indeed, because she probably did not have security clearance, she probably couldn’t search trough them herself.
Now you might argue that she had no reason to believe it, or even that she didn’t believe it.
One important point is the fact that she maybe she thought it necessary to make this qualification:
“Based upon the information that has been provided to me.”
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/31/2022 @ 12:38 pm……..
They could have been mixed in while he was still lving in the White House.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/31/2022 @ 12:41 pmThe FBI are trained investigators. That’s what the “I” stands for. They can spot weasel talk when they see it.
But I can understand the outrage: “How dare they not believe the lies Mr. True President The Greatest Of All Time Trump told his lawyer? What probable cause did they have for that?”
nk (19cb6c) — 8/31/2022 @ 12:48 pmThe two-hour launch window opens at 2:17 p.m. ET on September 3.
About time they did this at a reasonable hour.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/31/2022 @ 10:57 pm