Patterico's Pontifications

8/12/2022

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:01 am



[guest post by Dana]

Reminder:

Personal attacks on commenters (or me) are out. Criticizing the arguments is fine. Criticizing the person is not. [UPDATE: Criticizing public figures is just fine. What would a blog comment section be without that?]

Violations will be handled according to my judgment and the judgment of moderators I trust. There will indeed be a sliding scale, depending on your track record.

[…]

That leads me to the key principle: DO NOT MISCHARACTERIZE OTHER PEOPLE’S POSITIONS. Also, do not mischaracterize other people’s positions. One more thing: do not mischaracterize other people’s positions.

There are a few commenters who like to mischaracterize other people’s positions. Stop it.

And if it has been clearly demonstrated that you’ve made a false statement, own it and apologize.

Now, let’s go!

First news item

These two old white rich guys duking it out is the best America can do? No thank you:

President Joe Biden is preparing to launch his re-election bid in the months after November’s midterm congressional elections, according to multiple aides and allies…

[A]llies say Biden’s determination has grown amid revelations about Trump and his role in the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection, as well as the former president’s continued embrace by Republicans. This week, FBI agents searched Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida as part of a probe into whether he removed classified documents from the White House, and Trump was deposed by New York’s attorney general over claims his businesses misled lenders.

Biden frequently notes polls that show him defeating Trump head-to-head in a 2024 matchup, and believes he won the Democratic nomination in 2020 because he represented the best chance to remove the former president from power.

But in a potential rematch, Biden would be the incumbent, defending his record both on the economy and overseas while fending off Trump and his still formidable and energized base of supporters.

Second news item

Flat-out denies it:

Former President Donald Trump on Friday denied a report from The Washington Post that said FBI agents were looking for classified documents related to nuclear weapons, among other items…

On his Truth Social platform, Trump said that “Nuclear weapons is a hoax, just like Russia, Russia, Russia was a hoax,” referring to then-special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia. Trump attacked the officials involved with the search of his home, calling them “sleazy.”

Third news item

New abortion poll taken after Kansas vote:

According to a new poll released on Wednesday by Ipsos/USA Today, 70 percent of Americans, regardless of party affiliation, would favor voting on an abortion ballot measure at the state level. A total of 1,018 adults were interviewed for the poll, 70 more Democrats than Republicans.

The poll asked, “If there was a ballot measure in your state to decide abortion rights, would you vote in favor or against making abortion legal?” Fifty-four percent of Americans would vote to keep abortion legal while only 28 percent would vote against abortion legality, according to the poll.

Seventy-six percent of Democrats said they support abortion legality as did 52 percent of independents and 34 percent of Republicans. Only 10 percent of Democrats are against abortion legality, 27 percent of independents, and 54 percent of Republicans.

The poll also asked, “When you think about abortion, which of the following is closest to your personal opinion?” Twenty-eight percent said they believe abortion should be legal in all cases while 32 percent believe it should be legal in most cases. Meanwhile, 9 percent believe abortion should be illegal in all cases while 28 percent believe it should be illegal in most cases.

Fourth news item

Polio, yes polio, found in wastewater:

The New York State Department of Health (NYSDOH) and the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (NYCDOHMH) today updated New Yorkers on the detection of poliovirus (the virus that causes paralytic polio) in sewage, suggesting likely local circulation of the virus. Polio can lead to permanent paralysis of the arms and legs and even death in some cases.

“For every one case of paralytic polio identified, hundreds more may be undetected,” State Health Commissioner Dr. Mary T. Bassett said. “The detection of poliovirus in wastewater samples in New York City is alarming, but not surprising. Already, the State Health Department – working with local and federal partners – is responding urgently, continuing case investigation and aggressively assessing spread. The best way to keep adults and children polio-free is through safe and effective immunization – New Yorkers’ greatest protection against the worst outcomes of polio, including permanent paralysis and even death.”

“The risk to New Yorkers is real but the defense is so simple – get vaccinated against polio,” said Health Commissioner Dr. Ashwin Vasan. “With polio circulating in our communities there is simply nothing more essential than vaccinating our children to protect them from this virus, and if you’re an unvaccinated or incompletely vaccinated adult, please choose now to get the vaccine. Polio is entirely preventable and its reappearance should be a call to action for all of us.”

Fifth news item

Russia-annexed Crimea looks to be in play:

At least two explosions on Tuesday destroyed at least seven Russian aircrafts at an air base in Russian-annexed Crimea, a new satellite image from Planet Labs shows.

The cause of the explosion is still unknown. The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense says it could not determine the cause, while the Russian Ministry of Defense said the blasts were caused by detonated aviation ammunition but did not reveal how it had been detonated. [Ed. “Ukraine hasn’t officially claimed or denied responsibility for the blasts, but an unnamed Ukrainian official told the Washington Post the attack was carried out by special forces operating behind the Russian lines.”]

[…]

The amount of destroyed planes on Tuesday may wind up making it one of the most destructive days for Russian Air Force aircraft since World War II, including the Soviet-era. The little available data on military aircraft losses during the Soviet era and modern Russia era do not indicate such substantial losses from a single incident, on a single day.

Zelensky says Crimea must be freed:

President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday that Ukraine must retake Crimea for the war with Russia to end.

“This Russian war against Ukraine and against the entire free Europe began with Crimea and must end with Crimea — with its liberation,” Zelensky said.

“Crimea is Ukrainian, and we will never give it up,” he added.

Sixth news item

Horrible:

Salman Rushdie, the author whose writing led to death threats from Iran in the 1980s, was attacked Friday as he was about to give a lecture in western New York…An Associated Press reporter witnessed a man storm the stage at the Chautauqua Institution and begin punching or stabbing Rushdie as he was being introduced. The 75-year-old author was pushed or fell to the floor, and the man was restrained…Rushdie was quickly surrounded by a small group of people who held up his legs, presumably to send more blood to his chest.

Rushdie’s book “The Satanic Verses” has been banned in Iran since 1988, as many Muslims consider it to be blasphemous. A year later, Iran’s late leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa, or edict, calling for Rushdie’s death…A bounty of over $3 million has also been offered for anyone who kills Rushdie.

Seventh news item

CDC loosens school guidelines regarding Covid-19:

Schools can end quarantines and regular screening tests for COVID, but students and staff should keep masks on in areas with high levels of COVID spread, according to guidelines released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention…Almost no districts are starting the year with a mask mandate, and in-school quarantine rules are on the retreat.

[…]

Schools aren’t required to follow these recommendations — states and cities can still set their own rules — and updates to CDC guidance no longer prompt the kind of sweeping policy changes that they did earlier in the pandemic. Still, many districts look to the recommendations.

Eighth news item

Episcopal Church says nose, nose, anything goes:

Resolved, that the 80th General Convention calls for the Episcopal Church to advocate for access to gender affirming care in all forms (social, medical, or any other) and at all ages as part of our Baptismal call to “respect the dignity of every human being”; and be it further

Resolved, that the 80th General Convention affirms that all Episcopalians should be able to partake in gender affirming care with no restriction on movement, autonomy, or timing; and be it further

Resolved, that the 80th General Convention understands that the protection of religious liberty extends to all Episcopalians who may need or desire to access, to utilize, to aid others in the procurement of, or to offer gender affirming care; and be it further

Resolved, that this 80th General Convention supports public policies at the local, state, and national levels in all our countries to support gender affirming care.

What this includes: “Puberty blockers that can impede proper bone growth and hormones that can have deleterious side effects that have not been fully studied. Castration of boys who believe they are girls. Destroying the vaginas of girls who believe they are boys.”

Ninth news item

I’ve been scolded repeatedly that today’s Trump GOP is what Republicans want, so here you go:

Have a greate weekend.

–Dana

758 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. “This Russian war against Ukraine and against the entire free Europe began with Crimea and must end with Crimea — with its liberation,” Zelensky said.

    “Crimea is Ukrainian, and we will never give it up,” he added.

    That’s a twist I didn’t see coming. I wonder what other areas Zelensky will add to the list before this defense against Russian aggression can come to an end.

    frosty (125b4b)

  3. FBI Recovered Eleven Sets of Classified Documents in Trump Search, Inventory Shows

    FBI agents who searched former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home Monday removed 11 sets of classified documents, including some marked as top secret and meant to be only available in special government facilities, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation agents took around 20 boxes of items, binders of photos, a handwritten note and the executive grant of clemency for Mr. Trump’s ally Roger Stone, a list of items removed from the property shows. Also included in the list was information about the “President of France,” according to the three-page list. The list is contained in a seven-page document that also includes the warrant to search the premises which was granted by a federal magistrate judge in Florida.

    The list includes references to one set of documents marked as “Various classified/TS/SCI documents,” an abbreviation that refers to top-secret/sensitive compartmented information. It also says agents collected four sets of top secret documents, three sets of secret documents, and three sets of confidential documents. The list didn’t provide any more details about the substance of the documents.

    Mr. Trump’s lawyers argue that the president used his authority to declassify the material before he left office. ……
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  4. Leaks are coming faster now. Interesting to see who has the best sources.

    Time123 (b0b8ea)

  5. I would love to comment on the polio story, since I have training in that area, but you know how it goes around here.

    Simon Jester (8a01f1)

  6. I would love to hear your thoughts about it, Simon Jester. I’d like to know if you think this portends a greater outbreak, and if not, why not? Please do make your comments. You have an opportunity here to educate. Please take advantage of it.

    Dana (1225fc)

  7. Sorry for the hyperlink issue.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  8. @8 It should get interesting if the Ukrainians start using those weapons and funds for some of their own war crimes, terrorism, etc.

    frosty (125b4b)

  9. Also included in the list was information about the “President of France,” according to the three-page list.

    French postcards: probably his wife’s vital statistics– and her private phone number.

    That rascal! 😉

    DCSCA (f8e28f)

  10. @5 Do you have any idea of the source of virus? And whether it’s showing up in other cities?

    frosty (125b4b)

  11. Russia invaded and seized crimea in 2014 (?).

    Would be interesting if trying to invade Ukraine weakened them so much they couldn’t continue to hold it.

    Also allows Ukraine to threaten a negative outcome that could help push Russia to negotiate a peace deal sooner.

    By no means an expert on the region, but anytime an authoritarian dictatorship loses there’s some upside for humanity.

    Time123 (b0b8ea)

  12. @10 using those weapons and funds [we gave them] for some

    frosty (125b4b)

  13. SAG-AFTRA Health Plan To Reimburse Travel & Lodging Costs For Participants Who Must Leave Their States To Get Abortions

    Trustees of the SAG-AFTRA Health Plan have unanimously approved a reimbursement benefit to cover travel and lodging expenses related to abortion care for participants who live or work in states that prohibit abortions.

    https://deadline.com/

    DCSCA (f8e28f)

  14. Since the inception of Russia’s nationhood affirming operation on February 24, everything on the Geneva Convention’s list of legitimate military targets inside Russia is a legitimate military target for a counterattack by Ukraine.

    A nation that has been invaded has the right to take the war to the invader’s territory, and the Russians should forget their humiliation by Bill Clinton in Yugoslavia and thank him in their prayers for getting Ukraine to give up its nukes.

    nk (23bf78)

  15. Seems like Trumps spokespersons have moved from “there was no need to do this” to “the president can declassify whatever they wants so it was OK for him to have them”

    Not sure how long this will stay true.

    Time123 (ae7b06)

  16. Alternative facts remain operative for as long as the warp in the space-time continuum between the two realities remains open.

    (I am quoting two spokespersons there. If you know who the second one is, you may not be middle-aged anymore.)

    nk (c221b9)

  17. Her husband is hilarious.

    Time123 (b0b8ea)

  18. > That leads me to the key principle: DO NOT MISCHARACTERIZE OTHER PEOPLE’S POSITIONS

    I take it as a basic rule of polite engagement that I should try, as much as possible, to be able to describe the other person’s position *in terms they would agree with*.

    That shows I understand what they are saying, which allows us to then explore where and what the actual disagreement is — is it in underlying assumptions, is it in expected outcomes, etc.

    It also makes the other person feel heard and understood which lowers the heat of the conversation.

    aphrael (954d17)

  19. Simon Jester (8a01f1) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:42 am

    Please ignore the Yahoos here, Simon. I want to read what you have to say!

    There is a polio outbreak in London and Israel as well and GB is making the vaccine available to all children. Do you think that carriers have come from abroad and spread it in NY or is NY ground zero?

    felipe (484255)

  20. @16. So the pitch is the ‘government’ lost track of critical docs for 18 months??? Was Leaker Alito in charge of them, too??? 18 months– so they raised and tossed the POTUS household????

    A government of Barney Fifes, Jacques Clouseaus, Mister Magoos and Squinty McStumblebums.

    And 189 of them can’t be bothered to show up for work today vote to raise your taxes, spend nearly $8 billion and hire an 87,000 armed IRS Army to shake America’s Aunt Emmas down for their yard sale and bake sale money.

    Did the FBI find Hoffa yet? How about those live nukes the government lost, too.

    Yep, that’s ‘democracy.’

    … and Putin smiled; Xi is grinning with glee.

    DCSCA (f8e28f)

  21. Trump Organization Given October Trial Date in New York Tax-Fraud Case

    A New York judge on Friday allowed criminal tax-fraud charges against the Trump Organization and its former finance chief to move forward, setting a trial date for late October.

    State Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan denied the defendants’ bid to dismiss the indictment, with the exception of one tax-fraud count the Trump Organization had faced. Prosecutors had consented to the dismissal of that charge, conceding that part of the alleged conduct was too old to be part of the case now.

    Justice Merchan scheduled jury selection for Oct. 24.

    Just one of those quirks of the calendar, I guess, but this would have the trial and/or the verdict happening just before the mid-terms.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  22. Not sure how long this will stay true.

    The “limited hang-out.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  23. Michael Cohen says he ‘would not be surprised’ if FBI informant was one of Trump’s kids or Jared Kushner
    ………
    “It’s definitely a member of his inner circle,” Cohen told Insider on Thursday, adding that he “would not be surprised to find out it is Jared or one of his children.”

    “Who else would know about the existence of a safe and the specific contents kept inside?” Cohen said.
    ………
    Jacqui Heinrich, a White House correspondent for Fox News, said in a tweet on Thursday that a federal law-enforcement source told her that probable cause for the FBI search warrant at Mar-a-Lago “very likely” came from a member of the Secret Service.
    ………

    The next big guessing game. My bet is on the Secret Service.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  24. nk (c221b9) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:14 am

    To quote another commenter: “you rascal!”

    felipe (484255)

  25. I would love to comment on the polio story, since I have training in that area, but you know how it goes around here.

    Polio isn’t real, it’s just another way for the Illuminati to get their secret listening devices implanted in young kids. Besides, you can cure polio with bleach.

    jk

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  26. aphrael (954d17) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:20 am

    Quite right, aphrael. Well said.

    felipe (484255)

  27. My bet is on the Secret Service.

    Mine, too, although that would be a huge stain on their rep. If the protectee cannot trust their discretion, their value as bodyguards is diminished. IIRC, Trump preferred his own goons, as any Bond villain would.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  28. Time123 (ae7b06) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:04 am

    It doesn’t look like they’ve moved. It looks like there saying both.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  29. It would make my month if the Ukrainians can blow to smithereens the nice new Russian bridge over Kerch Strait, particularly since Putin is using the structure to transport self-propelled howitzers.

    Regarding Mr. Rushdie, unfortunate news, especially for someone who’s written some of the “top thirty books of our time”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  30. Crimea Bridge Jammed With Traffic as Russians Flee After Air Base Blasts

    Videos posted to social media show Russian vacationers fleeing Crimea following blasts at a military air base in the region that Moscow seized from Ukraine in 2014.

    Black smoke from the Saki air base located in the west of the peninsula was visible from the nearby packed beaches after the attack on Tuesday which the Russian-appointed head of Crimea, Sergei Aksyonov, said had left one person dead and 14 injured.

    The explosion sparked an exodus from the area which has been a popular holiday resort for years with videos showing people driving over the Kerch Bridge that links Crimea with the Russian territory of Krasnodar.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  31. Russia, Belarus military bases rocked by fire, explosions days after Crimea air base sees destructive blasts
    ……….
    A Belarusian news agency similarly reported that were several explosions early Thursday at the Ziabrauka airfield in Belarus’ southern Gomel region which shares a border with Ukraine and where Belarusian troops have been checked for “combat readiness.”

    The Belarus Ministry of Defense said that some military equipment caught fire following a late Wednesday night inspection, reported Kyiv Independent.

    An adviser to Belarusian opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, took to Twitter to say that at least eight explosions took place near the airbase which is “used by Russian aviation in the war against Ukraine.”

    “So far, there is no confirmation if these explosions are connected to any military drills conducted by the Russian and Belarus armies on Belarus territory,” the adviser, Franak Viačorka, added.
    …….

    Related:

    Belarus commander in Ukraine says ‘troop sabotage’ likely if Minsk sends forces to fight with Russia

    Sad!

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  32. Some real “First Battle of Bull Run” energy there.

    Davethulhu (a94860)

  33. I’ve noticed that the use of the invented term “whataboutism” is most commonly employed to help disparage the legal principle of equal justice under the law.

    Un-American.

    Colonel Haiku (800bee)

  34. “In much of western Europe, on all the issues that matter, competitive politics decayed to a rotation of arrogant co-regents of an insular elite, with predictable consequences: if the political culture forbids respectable politicians from raising certain issues, then the electorate will turn to unrespectable ones.”

    —- Mark Steyn, back in 2004

    Sounds prescient…

    Colonel Haiku (800bee)

  35. I’m hoping for Ukrainian advance units to begin their encirclement of Moscow.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  36. @5

    I would love to comment on the polio story, since I have training in that area, but you know how it goes around here.

    Simon Jester (8a01f1) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:42 am

    Genuinely curious here… my parents had the polio shots, but I never got it.

    Should we be concerned? Should we request the vaccine?

    whembly (b770f8)

  37. @17

    Seems like Trumps spokespersons have moved from “there was no need to do this” to “the president can declassify whatever they wants so it was OK for him to have them”

    Not sure how long this will stay true.

    Time123 (ae7b06) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:04 am

    The Trump lawyers are saying Trump declassified them whilst he was in office. And it’s true, if he did it’s OK for him to have them.

    whembly (b770f8)

  38. Yet another dishonest push-poll on abortion. They refrain from asking the real dividing question: “Should abortion on demand be legal after the first trimester?” Instead, they conflate all abortion and/or allow the responder to infer things not asked.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  39. Genuinely curious here… my parents had the polio shots, but I never got it.

    Or, as one who got the shot and/or the sugar cube, how long does protection last?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  40. Nope, I won’t be seeing that one.

    Joan of Arc will be portrayed as gender-neutral in a new play at Shakespeare’s Globe theatre in London.

    Audiences will hear Joan use the pronouns “they” and “them” in what critics say is a re-writing of history.

    “Critics say”? It is a re-writing of history because there’s no evidence of her sexuality one way or the other. After all, Brienne could fight as well as any man but she still had a crush on Jaime Lannister.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  41. My bet is on the Secret Service.

    Mine, too, although that would be a huge stain on their rep. If the protectee cannot trust their discretion, their value as bodyguards is diminished. IIRC, Trump preferred his own goons, as any Bond villain would.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:32 am

    Their “rep” is pretty well stained already, not mention the recent text deletion coverup.

    If a SS security witnessed a protectee (or a member of their family) commit a crime, would expect them to report it or conceal it?

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  42. This makes me one wonder how many other Americans are on Putin’s payroll.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if several are commenters over at Hotair or Instapundit.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  43. If a SS security witnessed a protectee (or a member of their family) commit a crime, would expect them to report it or conceal it?

    Depends. If they filched a presidential ashtray on their way out the door, no. A rape? Yes, although Kathleen Willey might venture an opinion. I’d expect them to assist on sneaking a hooker into the WH if that’s what the man wanted.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  44. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/12/exclusive-warrant-shows-doj-fbi-waited-several-days-after-judge-approved-to-conduct-mar-a-lago-raid/

    The first receipt lists out 28 numbered items, including some that have sub-headers. Some of the items are actually named like item number 1 which says it was an “Executive Grant of Clemency re: Roger Jason Stone, Jr.” or 1A which says it is “Info re: President of France.”

    Others like item number 2 are less specific. That item says it is a “Leatherbound box of documents.” Item 2A says it contained “Various Classified/TS/SCI documents.”

    Item number 3 says it was a “potential presidential record,” and items numbers 5 and 6 both say they were a “binder of photos.”

    Item number 7 says it was a “handwritten note,” and items 8, 9, and 10 were boxes labeled A-1, A-12, and A-15 respectively. Item 10A specifies that that item allegedly contained “Miscellaneous Secret Documents.”

    Absolutely unacceptable to conduct a warrant for these.

    There’s no coming back from this.

    whembly (b770f8)

  45. > Yet another dishonest push-poll on abortion. They refrain from asking the real dividing question: “Should abortion on demand be legal after the first trimester?” Instead, they conflate all abortion and/or allow the responder to infer things not asked.

    Since Republican controlled legislatures keep introducing bills that are close to absolute bans, this isn’t dishonest polling. It’s polling people about what they think about the proposals actually on the table.

    aphrael (954d17)

  46. > Yet another dishonest push-poll on abortion. They refrain from asking the real dividing question: “Should abortion on demand be legal after the first trimester?” Instead, they conflate all abortion and/or allow the responder to infer things not asked.

    I mean, “this is part of Ukraine and you are illegally occuppying it” bas been the Ukrainian position pretty much continuously since Russia invaded Ukraine and detached Crimea from it. Maintaining that position doesn’t make *Ukraine* an aggressor, it recognizes the fact that Russia invaded them and has been illegally occupying territory for eight years now.

    At some point Ukraine has to let it go, if it goes on for long enough. But eight years isn’t long enough.

    aphrael (954d17)

  47. Depends. If they filched a presidential ashtray on their way out the door, no. A rape? Yes, although Kathleen Willey might venture an opinion. I’d expect them to assist on sneaking a hooker into the WH if that’s what the man wanted.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:10 pm

    How about car theft by a protectee’s teenage son?

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  48. Thanks to Breitbart, the crimes listed on the warrant are

    18 USC 2071 — Concealment, removal or mutilation
    18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defence information
    18 USC 1519 — Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations

    The middle one pertains to the Espionage Act, which is serious.

    It’s bad. It’s really bad. But it looks like 18 USC 793 *right now*, which is 10 year felony territory. 18 USC 794 (not listed) is Rosenberg territory.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  49. The penalty under 18 USC 793 is 10 years, for each document.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  50. I’d expect them (Secret Service agents) to assist on sneaking a hooker into the WH if that’s what the man wanted.

    Or for themselves.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  51. One more thing

    The search warrant for Trump’s residence cited three criminal laws, all from Title 18 of the United States Code. Section 793, better known as the Espionage Act, which covers the unlawful retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary; Section 1519, which covers destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations or administrative proceedings; and Section 2071, which covers the unlawful removal of government records. Notably, none of those laws turn on whether information was deemed to be unclassified.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  52. The penalty under 18 USC 793 is 10 years, for each document.
    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:41 pm

    wow, Hillary is looking at a lot of time

    JF (ff2a35)

  53. The penalty under 18 USC 793 is 10 years, for each document.
    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:41 pm

    wow, Hillary is looking at a lot of time

    JF (ff2a35) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:48 pm

    Too bad Trump didn’t follow through on his pledge to “lock her up.” Another example of saying on thing and dropping the ball.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  54. Sho time:

    Los Angeles Angels’ Shohei Ohtani joins Babe Ruth as only players in MLB history to have at least 10 HRs and 10 wins in same season

    Another home run, another pitching win, another spot in the history books. Just another night for Shohei Ohtani
    ……. as the Los Angeles Angels beat the Oakland Athletics 5-1 on Tuesday.
    ……..
    …….. Ohtani joined Babe Ruth (1918) as the only players in major league history to have at least 10 home runs and 10 wins in the same season.
    …….
    Ohtani singled and scored on Taylor Ward’s three-run homer in the fifth, then connected for a towering drive off Sam Selman leading off the seventh as a throng of red-clan fans sitting behind the Angels dugout roared.

    That moved Ohtani past Ichiro Suzuki for the second-most home runs (118) by a Japanese-born player. Hideki Matsui had 175.
    ………
    He has now recorded 25 home runs and 100 pitching strikeouts for the second straight year — a feat no other player has accomplished in a season in MLB history.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  55. @Paul Montagu:

    That’s SPIN.

    Here’s the thing people are losing sight of:
    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/484/518/

    The President, after all, is the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.” U.S.Const., Art. II, § 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security and to determine whether an individual is sufficiently trustworthy to occupy a position in the Executive Branch that will give that person access to such information flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant. See Cafeteria Workers v. McElroy, 367 U. S. 886, 367 U. S. 890 (1961). This Court has recognized the Government’s “compelling interest” in withholding national security information from unauthorized persons in the course of executive business. Snepp v. United States, 444 U. S. 507, 444 U. S. 509, n. 3 (1980). See also United States v. Robel, 389 U. S. 258, 389 U. S. 267 (1967); United States v. Reynolds, 345 U. S. 1, 345 U. S. 10 (1953); Totten v. United States, 92 U. S. 105, 92 U. S. 106 (1876). The authority to protect such information falls on the President as head of the Executive Branch and as Commander in Chief.

    It’s another way of the idea of support the Unitary Presidency theory that EVERY President advocates:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory#:~:text=The%20unitary%20executive%20theory%20is,the%20entire%20federal%20executive%20branch.

    There’s only ONE official under the executive branch who has the power. All other officials in the Executive Branch only has “power” in that they’re a delegate of Office of the Presidency.

    There are arguments, made by just about every administration since Nixon, the President doesn’t have to comply with national security regulations because he has the ultimate authority. That means, the POTUS himself, need not to follow the declassification procedures that any other non-POTUS heads (ie, DNI, FBI chief, etc…).

    In other words, so long as Trump, even cavalierly, authorizes the GSA to “pack up those documents from the Oval Office and send it to my Florida home”. That, is enough to declassify the documents.

    whembly (b770f8)

  56. Sorry… WT effing F?!?
    https://twitter.com/15poundstogo/status/1558181080469045248

    The warrant ATTACHMENT B


    c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021;

    whembly (b770f8)

  57. @52

    The penalty under 18 USC 793 is 10 years, for each document.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:41 pm

    Reminder: 18 U.S. Code § 793, the Espionage Act, was the precise statute Hillary Clinton violated & was not charged for violating. Specifically, § 793(f)…

    I don’t care if you want to make a good faith adjudication that we should prosecution everyone under this statute, even Trump. You may have a strong argument.

    However, if this is what the DOJ/FBI tries to charge Trump, for something Hillary Clinton wasn’t, I don’t think we can survive as a nation politically. Especially in the sense that Trump had the ultimate declassification authority, that Clinton never held.

    whembly (b770f8)

  58. whembly (b770f8) — 8/12/2022 @ 1:04 pm

    Since a past POTUS didn’t pack the documents himself, or asked for specific documents, say, in a list, or even generally as in “the ones I’d like to have,” I’m not so certain that he can be convicted. Sure, any ex-POTUS can be charged! But what do I know about it? Nothing.

    felipe (484255)

  59. whembly (b770f8) — 8/12/2022 @ 1:14 pm

    Whew! So many other people are safe!

    felipe (484255)

  60. R.I.P. Anne Heche, 53

    Tragic.

    DCSCA (075fd5)

  61. “For every one case of paralytic polio identified, hundreds more may be undetected,” State Health Commissioner Dr. Mary T. Bassett said

    That means polio is not quite so dangerous. But the small percentage of cases that cause paralysis and even death is scary.

    AND this is old polio – not live vaccine polio.

    Some statistics:

    https://www.newser.com/story/324130/alarming-new-find-on-polio-in-new-york-state.html

    Most cases of polio are asymptomatic, while other patients experience flulike symptoms, including fever, sore throat, and nausea. The most severe cases, however, can lead to permanent paralysis of the limbs and even death. One in 25 people who contract the virus will get viral meningitis, while 1 in 200 will become paralyzed, per New York City’s Health Department. ]And ofthem,1n 10 are expected to die. There;s also weakness in a limb,wich they may not count as paralysis. ] Health officials are urging anyone who’s not vaccinated against the incurable infectious disease to do so, as a three-dose vaccine regimen offers at least 99% protection.

    Originally,they used the Salkkillled virus vaccine.Then,in the late 1960s they switched to the Sabin oral livevirus vaccine.

    But they discovered that the only reason polio continued to exist in the world was the live virus vaccine. So countries began switching to a killed virus vaccine. In the USA as of 2000.

    This version of polio was circulating in Jerusalem so somebody visited somewhere from somewhere else – either from here to Israel or from Israel to USA – and I don’t know in what country the vaccine from which it was derived from was administered. If 70% of infections don’t even cause any symptoms and in another 2% of cases it looks like flu – it can circulateq quite abit before anybody notices.

    https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON366

    WHO was notified on 7 March 2022 of the detection of circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus type 3 (cVDPV3) in an unvaccinated child from Jerusalem city…There is no cure for polio; it can only be prevented by immunization.

    No recognized cre -Paxlovid would probably help, as would some vitamins.

    There’s a larger than usual amount of vaccine skepticism among the highly religious Jewish community. They are not totally isolated from what goes on the world. They are just – or some are – getting the wrong “science” and may be being targeted.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  62. I don’t care if you want to make a good faith adjudication that we should prosecution everyone under this statute, even Trump. You may have a strong argument.

    I don’t know why you think I’m defending Hillary, whembly. I thought Comey should’ve prosecuted her on grounds of “gross negligence”, not the meaningless “extreme carelessness”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  63. . Castration of boys who believe they are girls. Destroying the vaginas of girls who believe they are boys.”

    There is no compromise possible in medicine.

    Either one side is right or the other is right, and the lunatics (who have a natural advantage) have captured most of the significant medical organizational positions.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  64. Since Trump apparently declassified the documents seized by the FFBI, he should release the documents on Truth Social. 😉

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  65. Whembly, you may be correct that he had that authority. But that authority ended as soon as he left office. It’s reasonable to expect that once in possession of the documents he needed to be instructed to return them before his possession is a problem. But all the reporting so far is that he was instructed to return them and refused. Some of the reporting is that he had classified material that the government wasn’t aware of, but I’m not sure how accurate that is.

    Either way, the fact that he was legally authorized to put them in a box while president doesn’t mean he’s authorized to keep them in the basement of his golf club as a private cutie.

    Time123 (b0b8ea)

  66. Since Republican controlled legislatures keep introducing bills that are close to absolute bans, this isn’t dishonest polling. It’s polling people about what they think about the proposals actually on the table.

    It’s designed to give opponents talking points they can use against even more reasonable restrictions, like the one in Florida.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  67. The power to declassify is not without limit. The areas of nuclear secrets is limited by the Atomic Energy Acts. The identity of spies is also limited. There is also nothing to stop a later President from re-classifying the material. If Trump had material on our nuclear weapons capabilities or vulnerabilities or that of our allies or of our adversaries….and if there was genuine fear that he might monetize that information….then the government had a duty to secure those documents. It’s not clear yet what Trump had and whether he was actively trying to pass on the material.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  68. whembly (b770f8) — 8/12/2022 @ 1:14 pm

    c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021;

    Because if they’re a “presidential record” they belong in the National Archives.

    This is per the 1978 Presidential Records Act, passed in part to prevent presidents from putting everything into their personal libraries.

    There’s also the matter of classified material, but any time anyone has looked at material relating to national defense or foreign policy , they’ve found some of it classified – they just don’t look very often.

    In 2015, Hillary Clinton grandstanded, in order to pretend how open she was, requesting that anything she turned over to the State Department (and a lot she did not) be made public.

    So they had to examine it for classification in order to decide whether they could release it. She brought the whole matter of holding classified information onto herself.

    The deleted emails were what she declared were not “work-related” Some might have concerned bribes, you know. She was very careful that nothing bad for her could wind up in government records.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  69. @68. No, Think like a Trump capitalist, Royalist Rip: you put them in a hard cover book with glossy color pictures and sell them for $149.99 unsigned and $399.99 signed as a fundraiser.

    DCSCA (075fd5)

  70. Attachment B:

    All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
    other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519, including the
    following:

    a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any
    containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as
    well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the
    aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

    b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the
    retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

    c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January
    20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or

    d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of
    any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification
    markings.

    “including the following” implies it is not an exhaustive list.

    But in a discussion the last few days I was told that the warrant could not be used for a fishing expedition, as it had to include detailed descriptions of the items to be seized. It seems that was inaccurate.

    Item C is VERY broad. Item A allows anything adjacent to a sought record to be taken.

    This basically says they can take anything they want.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  71. There was nothing in the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal today about possible nuclear bomb related information, and nothing like that was listed as taken – but then the property receipt didn’t describe much, exceptt something like “contents of a small brown box size so and so”,

    If they found one item with classification marks, they could take the entire contents of the box it was in.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  72. Time123

    cutie =?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  73. “Our planet has reached a breaking point!” – Nancy Pelosi 8/12/22

    Earth to Pelosi: “Get off my back.”

    DCSCA (075fd5)

  74. Too bad Trump didn’t follow through on his pledge to “lock her up.” Another example of saying on thing and dropping the ball.

    Or, one could say that Trump had more class than Garland.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  75. @69

    Whembly, you may be correct that he had that authority. But that authority ended as soon as he left office. It’s reasonable to expect that once in possession of the documents he needed to be instructed to return them before his possession is a problem.

    Once it’s declassified, it stays declassified.

    There are ways to reclassify documents, but none of the reports are articulating that.

    But all the reporting so far is that he was instructed to return them and refused.

    Sources please?

    The met in early June previously w/o any fireworks.

    I’ve yet to see any information that Trump actually REFUSED a subpoena.

    Some of the reporting is that he had classified material that the government wasn’t aware of, but I’m not sure how accurate that is.

    This strikes me as spin honestly.

    Either way, the fact that he was legally authorized to put them in a box while president doesn’t mean he’s authorized to keep them in the basement of his golf club as a private cutie.

    Time123 (b0b8ea) — 8/12/2022 @ 1:48 pm

    Again. Incorrect.

    You cannot be on the one hand “legally authorized to put them in a box” and “doesn’t mean he’s authorized to keep them in the basement”. That doesn’t compute.

    Or, lemme put it this way – I don’t think Trump did anything different that previous Presidencies.

    So, I think we’re getting to the point whereby critics of Trump are trying to “Rule-Lawyer” their way to justify this and that this could be considered a gray area because folks are ignorant of the relevant constitutional authority.

    This was the SCOTUS case that reaffirms the notion that POTUS has ultimate declassification authority (Dept of the Navy v. Egan, 484 U.S. 518 (1988):
    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/484/518/

    Maybe we SHOULD get better clarity on what exactly must the President do to declassify something. But, it’s not written down except for the philosophical notion stating that “President has ultimate authority”. To me, its clear. But, to others, evidently is difficult to understand.

    whembly (0d6416)

  76. “This bill does not increase the audits of American families.” – Nancy Pelosi, 8/12/22

    CBO: New IRS Audits Will Grab at Least $20B from Lower- & Middle-Income Families

    https://gop-waysandmeans.house.gov/cbo-new-irs-audits-will-grab-at-least-20b-from-lower-middle-income-families/

    DCSCA (075fd5)

  77. Furthermore, the mere act of sending 20 (or was it 30?) FBI agents to execute a warrant to seek out highly classified TS/SAP information really doesn’t pass the smell test.

    TS/SAP are highly compartmental “need to know” information.

    Let’s say for argument sake, that Trump did have TS/SAP that were not declassified. (which goes against my premise that if Trump did direct the GSA prior to leaving the WH to send it to MAL, but go with me hypothetically).

    Is the FBI going to “read in” those 20-30 FBI agents to get this back, via the raid?

    I don’t see it.

    Hence why I go back to Andrew McCarthy’s early point – all of this was simply a pretext to find something damaging to support a J6 indictment.

    This is sending the government against your political opponent, literally a stasi tactic.

    whembly (123289)

  78. Fox News Poll: Race for Congress tightens
    ………
    If voting today, the survey shows the race tied, as 41% would back the Democratic candidate in their House district and 41% the Republican. The GOP had a 3-point edge in July and June, and a 7-point advantage in May.

    “…….. (T)he biggest single change I see in this poll is the increased disapproval of the Supreme Court and suspect that is a significant factor” (said says Democratic pollster Chris Anderson, who conducts the Fox surveys with Republican Daron Shaw.)

    Fifty-five percent disapprove of the Supreme Court’s job performance, up from 48% in June.

    Meanwhile, the shift in vote preference mainly comes from women. They preferred the GOP candidate by 1 point in May and now go for the Democrat by 6.

    Also since May, party loyalty among Democrats increased by 3 points and decreased among Republicans by 2 points. And while independents remain largely undecided, their support for the GOP candidate is down 2 points.
    ………..
    Shaw says the survey results still favor the GOP in November.
    ………..
    Inflation is clearly the top issue to voters and it’s not even close. Forty-one percent say it will be most important to their vote for Congress, with abortion a distant second at 14%. All other issues are in the mid-to-low single digits, including border security, climate change, and guns.
    ………..
    Those prioritizing inflation are more likely to back the Republican candidate by a 54-25% margin, while those emphasizing abortion go for the Democratic candidate by 61%-25%.

    Among voters whose top issue is abortion, 75% disapprove of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade. Overall, 38% of voters approve of the Dobbs decision, while 60% disapprove.
    ……….
    Both President Biden and former President Trump are drags on their party this November. By an 11-point margin, more say their congressional vote will be to express opposition to Biden rather than support for him. For Trump, opposition is higher by 10 points. One-third say Biden and Trump won’t be a factor in their vote.
    ………
    Seventy-two percent of voters think it is important for the Justice Department to investigate Hunter Biden’s business dealings with foreign government (sic). By comparison, 65% say the January 6 hearings are important, down from 71% who felt that way in June.
    ………
    Overall, 50% say January 6 will influence their vote, and they support the Democratic candidate over the Republican by a 62-23% margin.
    ……….

    Top lines and cross tabs.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  79. Jeffrey Toobin Exits CNN After 20 Years As Legal Analyst; 2020 Exposing Scandal Tainted Emmy Winner

    After over two decades on CNN and an exposing 2020 digital scandal Jeffrey Toobin is leaving CNN.

    The cable newswer’s long term chief legal analyst reveled his resignation today in a letter to colleagues and a tweet:
    https://twitter.com/JeffreyToobin/status/1558176450087362562

    The announcement comes just over a year after a shamed Toobin returned to CNN following eight months off air due to the writer being seen masturbating in an online New Yorker staff meeting. The venerated magazine fired long time contributor and Emmy winner Toobin in November 2020. The then Jeff Zucker-run CNN did suspend or pink slip Toobin at the time, but officially merely agreed to his request for some time off. When Toobin slipped back on CNN in June 2021 he called his action “deeply moronic and indefensible,” and that “I didn’t think I was on the call. I didn’t think other people could see me.”

    https://deadline.com/2022/08/jeffrey-toobin-exit-cnn-legal-analyst-scandal-1235091218/

    DCSCA (075fd5)

  80. Fox News Poll: Race for Congress tightens

    If you read e3verything the administration (or Democrat Party) does as focused on the midterms, it will explain quite a lot about the timing. Like that Trump tax trial starting two weeks before the midterms. That’s no accident — the timing of the case is entirely the AG’s choice.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  81. @71

    The power to declassify is not without limit. The areas of nuclear secrets is limited by the Atomic Energy Acts. The identity of spies is also limited. There is also nothing to stop a later President from re-classifying the material. If Trump had material on our nuclear weapons capabilities or vulnerabilities or that of our allies or of our adversaries….and if there was genuine fear that he might monetize that information….then the government had a duty to secure those documents. It’s not clear yet what Trump had and whether he was actively trying to pass on the material.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/12/2022 @ 1:54 pm

    That tracks pretty well.

    It’s well known that specifics to US nuclear programs under the Atomic Agencies has different classification/handling. (I didn’t know about the spy names, but that makes sense too).

    Per the article:
    While a president is president, Leonard told me, “the rules and procedures governing the classification and declassification of information apply to everyone else.” And that means Trump could have declassified whatever he wished…before carting it off to Mar-a-Lago. He would not have had to file paperwork—just “utter the magic words,” Leonard told me. He could have waved his hand over the U-Haul trailer as it headed out the White House driveway and down I-95 toward Florida, and there would have been

    no classified material in there to mishandle.

    So, the only, ONLY thing Trump has to fear is if he’s violating anything that governs either the identity of US spy names or that is managed by the Atomic Agencies regarding US nukes.

    What should strike you here, is whether or not a raid (sorry “search”) was necessary.

    Has anyone pointed to ANY information that Trump refused a subpoena?

    whembly (123289)

  82. Ugh, block quote fail… but I’m sure you’d get my drift.

    whembly (123289)

  83. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/08/russian-media-organ-agrees-to-pay-millions-to-u-s-conspiracy-theorist-for-kremlin-propaganda

    The registration statement, dated Aug. 5, claims the contract is “solely for the purpose of creating video content for tv markets in India, China and South America” and “NOT for distribution or dissemination INSIDE the territory of the United States.”

    Russia also does quite a bit in Arabic, and the Spanish language material can reach into the United States.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/09/business/russia-propaganda-spanish-social-media.html

    RT en Español, Sputnik Mundo and RT Play en Español have been among the 10 most-viewed pages on Facebook in Latin America, with tens of millions of viewers.

    They use propaganda themes that they even try any longer in more western countries -like that the United States is manufacturing biological weapons in Ukraine or that Russia had to go to war because a fascist regime in Ukraine sought nuclear weapons. Of course, the atrocities are exaggerations or even hoaxes.

    Basically, this is to limit co-operation with sanctions on Russia.

    It’s openly admitted, so that Benjamin Swann can operate in the united States without fear of prosecution.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  84. Charles Bausman, on the other hand, fled to Russia after helping get people into the January 6, 2021 assault on the Capitol

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/03/us/capitol-riot-russia-propagandist.html

    Three days before Jan. 6, 2021, Mr. Bausman allowed Rod of Iron Ministries, a gun-themed religious sect led by a son of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, to meet at his property, according to photos on social media. Members of the sect had been active in “Stop the Steal” rallies, some of which Mr. Bausman had also attended, and were at the Capitol on Jan. 6.

    On Facebook, Mr. Bausman posted an appeal for people to go to Washington “to support Trump.” At various points during the riot, Mr. Bausman can be seen inside the Capitol, often using his phone to record the chaos.

    Afterward, he returned to Lancaster and gave a lengthy interview for a video about the insurrection produced by Arkady Mamontov, a Russian television host known for splashy pro-Kremlin propaganda pieces. The video also included footage of Mr. Bausman outside his home that appears to have been filmed months earlier. Mr. Mamontov did not respond to a request for comment.

    In the video, Mr. Bausman suggested, without evidence, that federal agents had instigated the violence at the Capitol to “discredit Trump,” and he painted a dystopian, conspiratorial picture of American society. It is a theme that he has carried forward to more recent appearances on Mr. Malofeev’s television network, in which he has accused Western media of lying about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

    It is not clear when Mr. Bausman left the U.S., but he was in Moscow for a TV appearance on the day of President Biden’s inauguration, two weeks after the insurrection at the Capitol. In the white nationalist podcast interview he gave in April from Russia, he said he had not been back home since.

    When asked by the host if he was still a Trump fan, Mr. Bausman said he was not, before adding with a laugh that there was one thing that could restore his loyalty.

    “When he pardons me for Jan. 6,” he said.

    And if Mike Flynn was a Russian agent, then Russia, on December 18,2020 tried to persuade Donald Trump to declare martial law.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  85. I try not to make personal attacks on posters here ;but the constant refusal of posters here to understand that trumpsters are populists not economic libertarian conservatives and social conservatism is the only thing you have in common, doesn’t lead to personal attacks but I keep having to post trumpsters are populists. I hope Rushdie will be o.k. Muslims and trumpsters have more in common then they think.

    asset (f920df)

  86. RIP Robert E. Simanek (92), one of three remaining Korean War Medal of Honor recipients.

    From his citation:

    For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving with Company F, in action against enemy aggressor forces. While accompanying a patrol en route to occupy a combat outpost forward of friendly lines, Pfc. Simanek exhibited a high degree of courage and a resolute spirit of self-sacrifice in protecting the lives of his fellow marines. With his unit ambushed by an intense concentration of enemy mortar and small-arms fire, and suffering heavy casualties, he was forced to seek cover with the remaining members of the patrol in a nearby trench line. Determined to save his comrades when a hostile grenade was hurled into their midst, he unhesitatingly threw himself on the deadly missile absorbing the shattering violence of the exploding charge in his body and shielding his fellow marines from serious injury or death. Gravely wounded as a result of his heroic action, Pfc. Simanek, by his daring initiative and great personal valor in the face of almost certain death, served to inspire all who observed him and upheld the highest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.

    In addition to the Medal of Honor and Purple Heart, he was also awarded the Korean Service Medal with two bronze stars; the United Nations Service Medal; and the National Defense Service Medal.

    Semper Fi!

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  87. I hope Rushdie will be o.k.

    He was stabbed in the neck and in surgery.

    Time will tell if ‘the pen is mightier than the sword.’

    DCSCA (075fd5)

  88. 2. frosty (125b4b) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:22 am

    That’s a twist I didn’t see coming.

    No, I saw it coming.

    If he’s not willing to end the war after taking half of Crimea this was won’t end quickly. I don’t think he’ll threaten to take territory that belonged to Russia after 1991..

    The United States and NATO more or less supports this.

    One thing the United States and others agree on:

    Russia mustn’t be begged to sue for peace. The war can stop only when Russia, on its own, tries to stop the war. Ukrainian demands, at least initially, will be Russian agreement to total withdrawal from all Ukrainian territory occupied since 2014.

    But what about the people who have been taken to Russia? That’s maybe more important.

    But maybe Russia must surrender territory it really, really doesn’t want to, to show it has given up.

    Maybe after Putin’s naval base in Ukraine is destroyed, he’ll be willing to.

    There is danger of the war expanding to Syria, with Israel and NATO countries, including especially Greece, (with the permission of Turkey) going after Russia’s naval base at Tartus. Maybe only if Russia supports Hezbollah shooting rockets. But if the Crimea base is abandoned, Putin won’t care. And then there’s Iran.

    Of course you can also worry about what China will do after November.

    Meanwhile Russia is trying “accidentally on purpose” to create a nuclear accident.

    All this would be just digging Russia and other countries intoabigger hole. The best solution for Russia is to just give up and try to getthe best peace possible..

    I wonder what other areas Zelensky will add to the list before this defense against Russian aggression can come to an end.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  89. You cannot be on the one hand “legally authorized to put them in a box” and “doesn’t mean he’s authorized to keep them in the basement”. That doesn’t compute.

    The president has a right to control and handle these documents. He could have taken pictures of them and posted them to facebook and it’s perfectly legal.

    An ex-president does not. When he left office he left his authority to keep the the documents however he pleased and had to follow the same document control laws as any other private citizen.

    The theory that this was intended to look for Jan 6 material seems weak. They’ve already shown they can get subpoenas for that investigation and i don’t see why they’d need a pretext. Furthermore using a pretext exposes the people involved into

    I’m still curious what he actually took. What’s been disclosed so far could be minor, or could be a massive deal. What I can say is I haven’t found any president since Johnson that took Secret / Top Secret material with them. Also, as far as I can find Trump is the first president that didn’t work with the National Archives on what documents they’re taking for their presidential library.

    Your question about the FBI is a good one. I’m not sure what processes they have to deal with Counter Intelligence investigations, but it would seem likely that they have a process to have enough agents with the right clearance to search a large area.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  90. Is the “DeSantasy” over?

    ……… Do we believe Republican voters are disordered enough to bypass a younger, smarter, more electable, and more accomplished candidate in favor of a widely loathed demagogue whose candidacy is an elaborate exercise in spite?

    I … tend to think so, yeah.

    So maybe the “DeSantasy,” as one Trump crony dubbed the fantasy of a DeSantis 2024 nomination to Puck’s Tina Nguyen, really is over.
    ………..
    DeSantis will be two years out of office as governor by 2028 and probably regarded as a squish by the standards of the day as the party slouches further towards authoritarianism. He’ll also have to worry about being supplanted as heir apparent by whatever hot new political thing bursts onto the scene between now and then. Realistically, he has to run in 2024.

    But only a fool would fail to realize that his odds of winning just got slimmer. …….

    ……… The problem for DeSantis and every other Republican hopeful is this: How do you defeat a cult leader in a cult primary? How do you make the case against nominating your opponent when highlighting his flaws is tantamount to treason? There are a million strong lines of attack DeSantis could mount against Trump in theory — he lost the popular vote twice, he committed impeachable offenses twice, he failed to enact much of his agenda (including the wall), he may be in criminal jeopardy, etc etc etc. Yet Trump cultism is such that to make any of those arguments and align yourself with “the enemy” would end up costing DeSantis more votes than it would Trump, which is why he was reduced to sputtering in Trump’s defense about “the regime” after news of the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago broke.
    ……….
    Defeating the cult leader was always going to be hard for DeSantis but it’s that much harder following a major event that reinforced the siege mentality that holds the cult together. And so:
    ………..
    ……….. There *are* still scenarios on the table in which DeSantis overcomes the “rally ’round Trump” dynamic of the moment and goes on to the nomination. Americans have short attention spans; DeSantis is potentially one new grandstanding lib-owning moment away from restoring his position. Maybe he could issue an executive order banning Anthony Fauci from Florida or something. Meanwhile, the DOJ may turn out to have more dirt on Trump than anyone expects. ……

    ……… In a sane party, criminal jeopardy would send voters fleeing from Trump and into DeSantis’s camp. In the insane autocracy that the GOP has become, the traffic is more likely to run the other way.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  91. Orange man bad had evidence of political hacks weaponizing U.S. intelligence and da justice system. No doubt – some paper trail showing how the DC machine under the Obama intelligence system, Dept of Homeland Security, Office of the Director of National Security, Dept of B.S.Justice and corrupt FBI coordinated with the Pant-suit darling campaign to install her into office. That is the top-secret classified intelligence that must not get out.

    mg (8cbc69)

  92. Whembly, here’s what I’ve found on the Subpoena.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-received-subpoena-for-classified-records-this-spring-cooperated-by-turning-over-documents-source

    Lots of other things in here. Not clear how broad the subpoena was, but does say the relationship was strained.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  93. Your question about the FBI is a good one. I’m not sure what processes they have to deal with Counter Intelligence investigations, but it would seem likely that they have a process to have enough agents with the right clearance to search a large area.

    The FBI has an entire division devoted to counterintelligence. It’s part of the National Security Branch.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  94. @93

    The president has a right to control and handle these documents. He could have taken pictures of them and posted them to facebook and it’s perfectly legal.

    An ex-president does not. When he left office he left his authority to keep the the documents however he pleased and had to follow the same document control laws as any other private citizen.

    That is 100% incorrect. Once President Trump declassifies something, it stay’s declassified after he leaves office. The only way to gets re-classified, is an overt effort by the current administration (which we have seen zero indications).

    You are simply wrong here buddy.

    The theory that this was intended to look for Jan 6 material seems weak. They’ve already shown they can get subpoenas for that investigation and i don’t see why they’d need a pretext. Furthermore using a pretext exposes the people involved into

    Time123 (a44efa) — 8/12/2022 @ 2:41 pm

    Warrants to retrieve “a thing” must be documented in said warrant.

    Here’s the thing: If the issue truly was the current administration having concerns about secret documents, those could be negotiated between lawyers or failing that, seek the courts to force Trump to hand it over via subpoena (which requires immediacy). The FBI didn’t do that – they executed a raid based on a broad warrant.

    That, looks to me as a fishing expedition, because investigator are not supposed to ignore “contrabands” (ie, something else illegal) when executing the warrant to retrieve “a thing”.

    Look, I understand you’re biased against Trump. That’s fine.

    I really REALLY don’t want Trump to run.

    But, I’m trying to be fair here and clinically look at this politically, and I have to tell you, this stinks to high heavens and I worry that this is going to energize Trump supporters and even energize the Trump-skeptics to rally behind him.

    Furthermore, this sets an absolute HORRIBLE precedent and supports the mantras that Democrats are often guilty of what they claim Trump does (ie, sicc government agencies against his political opponents).

    whembly (b770f8)

  95. @97

    Whembly, here’s what I’ve found on the Subpoena.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-received-subpoena-for-classified-records-this-spring-cooperated-by-turning-over-documents-source

    Lots of other things in here. Not clear how broad the subpoena was, but does say the relationship was strained.

    Time123 (a44efa) — 8/12/2022 @ 2:51 pm

    A “strained” relationship doesn’t warrant a raid imo.

    A “strained” relationship, in this regard, is to continually work the process among his attorneys and failing that, going to court to have Trump give up desired documents via court ordered subpoena.

    I’m emphatically believing that there’s zero rationale to conduct a raid.

    whembly (b770f8)

  96. They recivered some intercepts of communication intellience and information about Macron of Francem among other random things.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  97. Also, some handwritten notes (by whom, of what?)

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  98. Liz Cheney’s Chances of Winning GOP Primary With 4 Days to Election

    The chances of Representative Liz Cheney being the Republican candidate in November for Wyoming’s lone U.S. House seat are slim to none, new polling indicates.

    On Thursday, the University of Wyoming’s Wyoming Survey and Analysis Center (WYSAC) published a new poll of Republican voters likely participating in the state’s August 16 primary showing just 28 percent of them supporting the incumbent Cheney against heavy favorite Harriet Hageman with less than a week to go.

    Cheney is running for reelection, unlike her only Republican counterpart on the January 6 committee, Representative Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, who announced in October 2021 that he would not be seeking reelection.

    About 57 percent of the 562 Wyoming residents surveyed between July 25 and August 6 preferred Hageman to Cheney. It’s a deep slide for Cheney, who has represented Wyoming in Congress since 2017, including as the third highest-ranking House Republican due to chairing the House Republican Conference between 2019 and 2021.

    The numbers may be even worse for Cheney, according to the poll. “Given the unique attention this race is receiving, and the accompanying increases in voter registration and potential party switching, we decided to field this survey to a random sample of all Wyoming residents on cell phones and landlines and work to identify likely voters in the GOP primary,” said Brian Harnisch, director of WYSAC. “When looking only at residents who say they are Republican and likely voters in the primary, we actually see Hageman leading by roughly 50 points.” – newsweek.com

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (080a48)

  99. The whole world has Roger Stone’s Grant of Clemency. It’s a public record.

    “Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021;” is absurd. That also applies to the whole world. Who doesn’t have a government record created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021? Did they get his Social Security statement, for example?

    If it’s real, and not Breitbart TANGO, I am very surprised.

    nk (7934d8)

  100. Also very naive.

    nk (7934d8)

  101. Memo to Melania:

    Do a pantie count.

    DCSCA (080a48)

  102. We have exactly as much evidence it was declassified as we do it being reclassified.

    And I continue to think the appropriateness of the search and seizure depends on what information they reasonably suspected him of having.

    I see no evidence they were looking for Jan 6 information, or that they thought this location would have some.

    Time123 (2e9616)

  103. Memo to Attorney General Barney Fife:

    “No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.” – FBI Director James Comey, 7/5/16

    DCSCA (080a48)

  104. nk, @104

    That’s because the law says that all presidential work product is the government’s. That would include any written plotting about J6, phone logs or other memoranda regarding Trump’s contacts with the J6 conspirators.

    But, assuming that Trump actually kept TS, SCI and codeword documents in his basement I think the walls might be closing on him a bit. And why? If he, um, shared any of this information with Putin for money even his supporters will abandon him. Even if he didn’t this is incredibly reckless.

    I don’t know the truth here, and this issue is choc-a-block with liars and agendas, but I suspect that a lot of the GOP center is going to back off in a hurry.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  105. “No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.” – FBI Director James Comey, 7/5/16

    What he actually said was “No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case against a Democrat presidential contender.” – FBI Director James Comey, 7/5/16

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  106. BTW, I don’t buy the “he can declassify it whenever he wishes” argument.

    Some things he cannot declassify — the B61 bomb design, for example. Other things he can, but he has to publish a notice of some sort, perhaps as an EO. Just stuffing them in his pants won’t cut it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  107. The middle one pertains to the Espionage Act, which is serious.

    It’s bad. It’s really bad. But it looks like 18 USC 793 *right now*, which is 10 year felony territory. 18 USC 794 (not listed) is Rosenberg territory.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:37 pm

    Any idea what’s in the boxes? And what’s pointing to 793 over the other two?

    frosty (26304d)

  108. What past cases reveal about Trump’s legal exposure following FBI raid
    ………
    Without much precedent to rely on, legal experts said investigators may turn to past cases with overlapping elements to determine whether Trump violated the law.

    One notable recent example cited by legal experts pertains to Gen. David Petraeus, the former CIA director who pleaded guilty in 2015 to a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified information.

    …….. Petraeus not only illegally retained classified documents, but that he also shared them with others. Petraeus was sentenced to two years’ probation and a $100,000 fine. Trump later considered him for the position of defense secretary.
    ………
    (Sandy) Berger pleaded guilty in 2005 to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized retention of classified materials from the National Archives, after he stuffed classified documents into his pants and socks prior to testifying to the 9/11 Commission. Berger was fined $50,000 and sentenced to two years’ probation.
    ……..
    “On the one hand, the bigger the figure involved, the more resources the government uses to investigate. But on the other hand, the more care they take in deciding whether to charge you,” said (Howard Sklamberg, a former public integrity prosecutor with the Justice Department who helped prosecute Berger). ……..

    A lesser-known case that may foreshadow investigators’ approach to Trump is that of Harold Martin, an intelligence contractor who over the course of more than two decades illegally took troves of physical and digital government documents — some of which were categorized as sensitive compartmented information (SCI) …….. Martin was sentenced to nine years in prison in 2019 after pleading guilty to willful retention of national defense information.

    David Aaron, a former Justice Department counterespionage official who prosecuted the case against Martin, said investigators will make a priority of determining why Trump would want to withhold certain records — particularly given his unique access to the government’s most closely held secrets.
    ………

    Petraeus and Berger were convicted under the previous statute, before Trump made the crime of mishandling classified documents a felony-level offense under 18 USC 1924.</em>

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  109. The big loser in this?

    Daughter Darth. Wyoming voters are going channel even more anger over this Trump raid and kick her ass into an exhaust port on Daddy Darth’s Death Star.

    DCSCA (080a48)

  110. assuming that Trump actually kept TS, SCI and codeword documents in his basement

    These are SCIF level items correct? I’m still trying to get someone to give a reasonable story for how something like that makes it into a box that gets packed up and shipped to MAL. And then sits for 18 months. And is so important that the FBI gets a warrant and then doesn’t immediately go get it.

    frosty (26304d)

  111. Wasn’t Russia, Russia, Russia serious?
    Give it a rest.
    Already

    mg (8cbc69)

  112. So Squinty McStumblebum and family are given a free vacation stay at a plush, ritzy – amnd expensive- SC beach hideaway. Must be nice…

    GIFTS TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

    CRS Report for Congress
    Received through the CRS Web
    Gifts to the President of the United States
    Jack Maskell
    Legislative Attorney
    American Law Division

    Summary

    This report addresses inquiries from congressional offices for information on the
    federal statutes, regulations and guidelines concerning restrictions on the acceptance of
    personal gifts by the President of the United States. While the President, like any other
    officer or employee of the Federal Government, is prohibited from receiving personal
    gifts from foreign governments and from official foreign interests without the consent of
    Congress, he is generally free to accept personal gifts from the American public. Most
    of the regulatory restrictions on the acceptance of gifts by federal officials from so-called
    “prohibited sources” are not applicable to the President of the United States, although
    the President may not solicit gifts from such sources. The President, in any event, may
    receive gifts that are given on the basis of personal friendship. When personal gifts
    accepted by the President or his family exceed a certain amount, those gifts are required
    to be publicly disclosed in financial disclosure reports filed by the President.
    The
    President remains subject to the bribery and illegal gratuities law which prohibits the
    receipt of a gift or of anything of value when that receipt, or agreement to receive, is
    connected to the performance (or nonperformance) of an official act.
    While federal laws have long prohibited corrupt payments to federal officials, such
    as those in the form of “bribes” from favor-seekers in the private sector,1 the regulation
    and limitation on mere “gifts” to federal officials from domestic sources – where there is
    not necessarily any bargain (reciprocity), compensation or favor explicitly sought,2
    understood or agreed to – are of a more recent vintage. The ethical issues and problems

    1 Bribery is one of the express crimes constituting grounds for impeachment of the President, Vice
    President, and all civil officers of the United States, originally stated within the Constitution,st
    Article II, Section 4. The first federal statutes on bribery began with the 1 Congress in 1789 and
    1790, 1 Stat. 46, July 31, 1789 (custom officials); 1 Stat. 117, April 30, 1790 (federal judges).

    Explain, Joe.

    DCSCA (080a48)

  113. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 4:53 pm

    The common thread in those examples is intent. I don’t see how the last example pertains to Trump at all.

    Does anyone think Trump gathered the documents and/or put them in those boxes? Is there any indication he transmitted them to a third party? They don’t appear to be lost. I’d be surprised if he even knows what’s in them.

    frosty (26304d)

  114. FBI, Justice Department Routinely Prosecute Misuse of Classified Documents
    ……….
    Since 2005, the FBI and the Justice Department have launched at least 11 such investigations, some targeting high-profile former U.S. officials, including a former national security adviser and a former CIA director.

    Others who have been prosecuted and who have pleaded guilty or were convicted include Defense Department employees, defense contractors and employees or contractors with the FBI, the CIA and the National Security Agency.

    Here’s a list of some notable cases:
    ………
    March 2013 –Retired Lieutenant Colonel Benjamin Pierce Bishop was arrested in Hawaii and charged with one count of unlawfully retaining documents related to the national defense and one count of willfully communicating national defense information to a person not entitled to receive such information. ……..He was sentenced to more than seven years in prison followed by three years of supervised release.
    ……….
    July 2015 – U.S. Navy reservist Bryan Nishimura was sentenced to two years of probation and a $7,500 fine after he pleaded guilty to downloading and storing classified documents from his deployment to Afghanistan in 2007-2008…….(Nishimura was sentenced to two years of probation, and a $7,500 fine).
    ……….
    January 2017 – Former defense contractor and sailor Weldon Marshall was arrested for unlawfully retaining classified information………Marshall pleaded guilty in March 2018. He was sentenced in June 2018 to more than three years in prison followed by a year of supervised release.

    January 2018 – Former CIA officer Jerry Chun Shing Lee, also known as Zhen Cheng Li, was arrested on charges of unlawful retention of national defense information. …… Lee pleaded guilty and was sentenced in November 2019 to 19 years in prison for conspiring to communicate, deliver and transmit national defense information to China.

    May 2018 – Former CIA contractor Reynaldo Regis pleaded guilty to charges of unauthorized removal and retention of classified materials, as well as to making false statements to federal law enforcement officers.
    ………In November 2018, Reyes was sentenced to 90 days in jail. Regis’ lawyer later told the Associated Press and other news outlets that his client “had no nefarious purpose. It was just a mistake.”
    ……….,
    June 2020 — Investigators conducted a search of the Hawaii home of Asia Janay Lavarello, a U.S. Defense Department employee, following her return from a temporary assignment to the U.S. Embassy in Manila. …… Lavarello pleaded guilty to knowingly removing classified information in July 2021. She was sentenced in February 2022 to three months in prison and a $5,500 fine.

    May 2021 – Kendra Kingsbury, an employee at the FBI’s Kansas City division, was indicted on two counts of having unauthorized possession of documents relating to the national defense. The court documents allege Kingsbury removed sensitive material and classified documents from her workplace over a period of more than 12 years and kept them at her home. One of the documents included information on al-Qaida members in Africa, including a suspected associate of al-Qaida founder Osama bin Laden.
    ########

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  115. mg (8cbc69) — 8/12/2022 @ 4:58 pm

    It worked well enough the first time. Why not try it again? After all Russia has almost the GDP of Texas and TX falls behind CA. It makes perfect sense for an ex-POTUS to be selling out to Russia.

    frosty (26304d)

  116. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 4:53 pm

    The common thread in those examples is intent. I don’t see how the last example pertains to Trump at all.

    Does anyone think Trump gathered the documents and/or put them in those boxes? Is there any indication he transmitted them to a third party? They don’t appear to be lost. I’d be surprised if he even knows what’s in them.

    frosty (26304d) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:08 pm

    As the article at post 113 states, there is little legal precedent for investigating senior officials for mishandling classified information. But as my post 119 shows, there is plenty of precedent for the FBI and DOJ to pursue these types of cases in general.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  117. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:11 pm

    Most of those are clearly espionage. I’m anxiously awaiting the DOJ/FBI’s attempt to bring espionage charges against Trump based on what we’ve seen so far.

    frosty (26304d)

  118. I’d be surprised if he even knows what’s in them.

    That goes to Trump’s intent. Is someone else packed the boxes, he’s in the clear, right up until the National Archives and DOJ started asking questions earlier this year.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  119. Seth Barrett Tillman
    @SethBTillman
    “The rationale being offered via anonymous sources is that Trump had the US nuclear codes in some
    unsecured boxes on his Mar-a-Lago facility. And the administration negotiated with Trump for the return of these docs and delayed serving a warrant for over 1.5 years.

    Makes sense!“

    Colonel Haiku (8bd58c)

  120. The Trump cult members who sit, sulking in their dens, coming out occasionally to hiss, are hilarious.

    You’ve been conned! He’s a con man! Wake up! I know you have a lot of grievances (we all do), but don’t allow him to leverage those concerns towards unwavering loyalty.

    There are other people who can institute the policies you prefer. Let go of this drama queen! Don’t you ever get tired of the professional wrestling rhetoric?

    Yes, Biden has bad policies! That doesn’t mean Trump is the answer! Talk about simplistic thinking. We have more than these two options, you know.

    norcal (da5491)

  121. Resolved, that the 80th General Convention calls for the Episcopal Church to advocate for

    I’m not Episcopalian but from what I’ve been told things like this are splitting the church. The UMC is going through a similar processes.

    Also, from what I can tell the woke branched of these denominations whither away. It’s a cancer on a congregation.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  122. I am now curious what the procedure is to allow a fair trial while protecting the contents of the documents.

    aphrael (954d17)

  123. “I am sure that all the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane documents were classified Top Secret.”

    Colonel Haiku (8bd58c)

  124. “Trump would not have Top Secret documents about nuclear weapons.

    Instead, he would have lots of the FBI’s Top Secret documents about his campaign staff members being secret agents of Russian Intelligence.”

    Colonel Haiku (8bd58c)

  125. norcal (da5491) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:28 pm

    Who are these cult members who sulk and come out occasionally to hiss?

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  126. Most of those are clearly espionage.

    You can be convicted under the Espionage Act without actually spying for a foreign power. See Paul Montagu‘s posts 51 and 54. See also 18 U.S. Code § 793 (e), which forbids ‘unauthorized persons’ from taking ‘national defense’ information and either ‘retaining’ it or delivering it to ‘persons not entitled to receive it; it says nothing about transmitting the information to a foreign power. If Jared or Ivanka saw a classified document but were not authorized, that is a crime.

    The Espionage Act needs updating, it’s what on the books.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  127. Re 111

    Why would he worry about the B61 bomb design?
    Wikipedia seems to have a good breakdown.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb#/media/File:B-61_bomb_(DOE).jpg

    Joe (76eaa3)

  128. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:24 pm

    Not right up until. The NA and DOJ starting to ask questions doesn’t establish criminal intent on the part of Trump. It gives him notice, or more likely it gives the people dealing with this notice, but a crime didn’t take place the moment they started asking questions.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  129. <blockquote>“I am sure that all the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane documents were classified Top Secret.”

    Colonel Haiku (8bd58c) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:32 pm

    Didn’t Trump issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Attorney General and the Directors of National Intelligence and the CIA to declassify Crossfire Hurricane documents?

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  130. Who are these cult members who sulk and come out occasionally to hiss?

    frosty (b6a3ab) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:33 pm

    It’s more salutary when people figure it out rather than have the answer given to them.

    norcal (da5491)

  131. AG Fife: Just what’s in those confiscated “photo albums,” Barney” ???

    Do tell…

    “Kinky!” – Hedley Lamarr [Harvey Korman] ‘Blazing Saddles’ 1974

    DCSCA (080a48)

  132. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:37 pm

    I didn’t reference a foreign power in this context.

    If these documents were declassified by him when he had the authority (something I don’t think is true) there’d be no problem with him retaining them or showing them to Jared.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  133. I am a bleeding heart liberal on criminal matters, I feel sorry for anyone who is sucked into the maw of The Beast, but Rodney Dangerfield died too soon. What he could have done with this:

    I get no respect. No respect at all.
    So my wife calls me from Mar-a-Lago and tells me that three FBI agents are rummaging through her drawers.
    So I tell her I know, they’ve got a search warrant, just let them.
    And she says but I’m still wearing them.

    nk (690f78)

  134. @138 🤣

    norcal (da5491)

  135. Seriously, Ima disappoint in the magistrate judge. Instead of that (c) catchall, he should have stuck to the language of the Presidential Records Act:

    (2)The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably seg­regable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

    Here’s the whole Section. Check out what’s not “Presidential records”.

    nk (690f78)

  136. #138 Chuckle. Thanks for that.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  137. For everyone who expected Trump to fight the release of the warrant does him not fighting it change any calculus?

    Presumably he wasn’t going to release it because it would be incriminating? And it served him better keeping it secret?

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  138. If I were Trump’s lawyer, I would go in with a motion to quash the entire warrant. I would say, in a nice way but not so nice that it is not clear, that magistrate judges are not authorized to amend the Presidential Records Act.

    nk (210850)

  139. Once it’s declassified, it stays declassified.

    I thought Rip debunked that yesterday, after you made that same claim yesterday.

    Here’s an interesting thread on why declassifying by osmosis is legally sketchy and a crap practice.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  140. SOP for the government is that the warrant is not made public unless the subject is charged. The subject, himself, can do anything he wants with the copy he is given at the time of search.

    nk (210850)

  141. nk, I miss Dangerfield and Rickles, both legends.
    I think I even had a Dangerfield comedy album.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  142. Apologies to Waylon Jennings…

    Just’a good old Trump;
    Never meanin’ no harm
    Beats all you ever saw;
    Been in trouble with the law
    Since the day he was born

    Pitchin’ some curves, yeah;
    Signing some bills
    Someday the Lord will get ’em;
    But the law never will

    Makin’ his way
    The only way he knows how
    That’s just a little bit more
    Than the law will allow

    Makin’ his way
    The only way he knows how
    That’s just a little bit more
    Than the law will allow

    Just’a good old Trump
    Wouldn’t change if he could
    Fighting the system
    Like a modern-day Robin Hood

    DCSCA (97f537)

  143. And it served him better keeping it secret?

    frosty (b6a3ab) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:14 pm

    It’s possible he was waiting for the left to make outlandish claims about its contents, and then releasing it to make those claims look foolish.

    norcal (da5491)

  144. @146. Went to Dangerfield’s club in NYC back in the 80s; caught his act just after his LP was released; his warm up: David Frye. Great stuff.

    DCSCA (97f537)

  145. Some people are speculating that the person who ratted the loser out is . . . Melania.

    Whoever did it, the paranoia level must be very high in Trump’s inner circle, given the reports that an insider ratted him out.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  146. Wasn’t Russia, Russia, Russia serious?

    Yes. Putin’s “sweeping and systematic” cyber-propaganda attack on America was serious.

    Give it a rest.

    No.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  147. @151. A RINO’s gotta blow its horn, tone deaf, off key or not. 😉

    DCSCA (97f537)

  148. Any idea what’s in the boxes? And what’s pointing to 793 over the other two?

    How could I know? A number of the documents range from confidential to TS/SCI, as has been reported. I refer you to the DOJ for these questions.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  149. So, as far as I can tell, here’s what we actually know so far (please correct me if I am wrong or don’t include something that is actual knowledge) (told in a minorly humorous way):

    There are some documents that Trump has that the government thinks belong to them.

    Someone from the government (Nat Archives?) contacts the Trump organization and says, “hey, you have our stuff, we’d like it back please.” (or similar)

    No stuff is forthcoming.

    The government goes to court and says, “Hey, FPOTUS has our stuff, tell him to gib back.” (or similar)

    Court says, “Hey, Trump, gib back.”

    FBI goes to Trump and says, “Court says gib back.”

    Trump says, “Fine, whatever.” And then, “Servant, take the FBI to the secret boxes in the basement.”

    FBI gets boxes, says, “Hey, Trump, this everything?”

    Trump say, “Did you see any other secret boxes in the basement? Get outta here.”

    FBI leaves.

    Someone (Nat Archives?) finishes categorizing the secret basement boxes and says, “Hey! This is not all our stuff! FPOTUS still has our STUFF!”

    FBI goes to court and says, “Hey! We asked nice, we gave court subpeona, FPOTUS not respect court, not gib back all stuff. We go take, yes?”

    Court says, “Yes. Fine to take.”

    FBI talks to SS, says, “Not to be shooting us. Court says yes to take. We come when FPOTUS not home.”

    SS says, “Whatever. Sure. We not shoot.”

    FBI arrives when FPOTUS is not home, hands the court paperwork to one of Trumps lawyers, says, “Court says OK to take, here paper, we take.”

    Lawyer falls to ground kicking and screaming, FBI ignores, takes, gives vague inventory to lawyer.

    At some point Trump is told and eventually has some combination of offense/sees an opportunity, and tells the world about it.

    Lawyer, having hit their head while throwing a fit (humor, har), became unsure if they had a copy of the warrant or the inventory, until they remember a few days later.

    We do not know what the actual documents are. We do not know exactly why they are needed. We still don’t really know anything other than the timeline of events and that the FBI was looking for and took documents that seem to have been relatively important for unknown reasons. Does this seem like a correct summation (minus the not very good humor).

    Nic (896fdf)

  150. Mr. Rushdie is in a poor state…

    Breaking News: After being stabbed, Salman Rushdie is on a ventilator and cannot speak. His arm and liver are injured, and he may lose an eye, his agent said.

    We may never know what motivated the attacker to strike. /s

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  151. @144 Maybe and maybe not.

    My browser isn’t following your link so I’m guessing you’re referring to @87 in that post.

    It says:

    only if such classification or reclassification meets the requirements of E.O. 13526, and is accomplished on a document-by-document basis with the personal participation or under the direction of the agency head, the deputy agency head, or the senior agency official

    Reclassification also isn’t a magic wave of the hand sort of thing

    Information may not be reclassified after declassification and release to the public under proper authority.

    And, yes, there are cases where things can’t be reclassified.

    Stealth reclassification by something like osmosis is also legally sketchy and a crap practice.

    Rip’s quote also wasn’t a general reclassification answer:

    after an agency has received a request for it under the FOIA, Presidential Records Act, 44 USC 2204(c)(1), the Privacy Act of 1974, or the mandatory review provisions of E.O. 13526

    And the original question was titled

    CAN INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN AUTOMATICALLY DECLASSIFIED BE RECLASSIFIED?

    I’m not sure this answer even applies to something that had been declassified via by POTUS.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  152. Not exactly, Nic. Somewhere in there, I read it was January of this year, the National Archives get 15 boxes back from Trump. They saw that it included classified stuff. So they went to the DOJ and the DOJ impaneled a grand jury to look into it.

    nk (5cd02d)

  153. The Ayatollahs had placed a $6 million bounty on Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses.

    nk (5cd02d)

  154. @154 Sounds about right

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  155. If these documents were declassified by him when he had the authority (something I don’t think is true) there’d be no problem with him retaining them or showing them to Jared.

    frosty (b6a3ab) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:49 pm

    If he did declassify them (and that’s assuming the reports on the material are true as opposed to Russiagate gossipmongering), he has to have some kind of record authorizing it as an Originating Classification Authority. Typically, a Memo For Record is sufficient that lists the documents. The second he’s no longer officially President, that power vanishes; he’s not allowed to say “oh that stuff’s declassified” post facto, or without documentary proof of the declassification.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  156. Hunter Biden laptop repairman John Paul Mac Isaac says FBI agent threatened him to hush up

    The computer repair shop owner who blew the whistle on Hunter Biden’s infamous laptop claims in a new book that an FBI agent threatened him to stay silent. John Paul Mac Isaac said two federal agents came to his Mac Shop in Wilmington, Del. in December 2019 to recoup the laptop following a subpoena, he details in his new book “American Injustice: My Battle to Expose the Truth.”

    The repairman, who had volunteered to hand the laptop over to the feds two months earlier, said the alleged threat came after he made a joke, telling them: “Hey, lads, I’ll remember to change your names when I write the book.”

    “Agent Wilson kept walking but Agent DeMeo paused and turned to face me,” Paul Mac writes of the encounter. Isaac said the agent then told him: “It is our experience that nothing ever happens to people that don’t talk about these things.”

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/11/hunter-biden-laptop-repairman-says-fbi-threatened-him-to-stay-silent/

    DCSCA (97f537)

  157. Thanks nk, so replace “no stuff forthcoming” with “some minor amount of stuff forthcoming, but clearly not everything.”

    Here’s my wild speculation of what is in the documents based on the warrant and my opinion of Trump as a person:

    The documents are a combination of personal souvenirs made up of records of some things he did that he thought were cool (which may or may not be secret), documents he’s afraid might get him in trouble (also may or may not be secret), information that will make him money (which may or may not be secret), and information that is compromising on someone else (may or may not be secret).

    (also, if we have nudes of Macron, do we also have nudes of Trudeau? Asking for a friend.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  158. @160 Yes. That’s a more elaborate version of what I said.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  159. If Jared or Ivanka saw a classified document but were not authorized, that is a crime.

    True, but that’s assuming they didn’t have clearance and the appropriate read-ins, even as part of his inner circle of advisors. SSBIs for TSs can take years but would likely be fast-tracked for those the President deemed necessary as “trusted agents.” A Secret clearance typically doesn’t take more than a few months, if that.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  160. NYT never fails: It was not clear what motivated Salman Rushdie’s attacker.

    Dana (1225fc)

  161. @154 Well done, Nic. I don’t recall ever seeing an entertainment flourish from you.

    norcal (da5491)

  162. John Paul Mac Isaac said two federal agents came to his Mac Shop

    It’s stuff like this that makes the simulation argument seem plausible. You’ve got a guy with four names. John Paul like the pope and Mac who owns a Mac store and he’s got a first name for a last name.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  163. so, when do we start thanking blue states for monkeypox?

    JF (e1c801)

  164. @norcal@166 Thanks, it does happen from time to time, but I have to be in the right mood for absurdism. 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  165. The thing with Trump is: he would not be able to resist boasting about classified docs in his possession and all it would take is one buffoon with a few too many cocktails to challenge Trump and say, prove it. Trump would then of course choose the juiciest piece of information, and show the document to the Mar-a-Lago cocktail circuit regulars. Who knows how many eyes even outside of his former administration have seen however many of them.

    They were the most beautiful classified top secret papers any president has ever shown st a party!

    Dana (1225fc)

  166. NYT never fails: It was not clear what motivated Salman Rushdie’s attacker.
    Dana (1225fc) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:55 pm

    that’s just good reporting, journo 101

    you have to wait for the FBI to chime in on this

    it could be suicide by cop which just didn’t pan out in the end

    JF (e1c801)

  167. JOHN SOLOMON AND KASH PATEL MAY BE IMPLICATED IN THE FBI’S TRUMP-RELATED ESPIONAGE ACT INVESTIGATION
    ………
    On June 24, two days after DOJ sent a subpoena for the surveillance footage, Betsy Woodruff Swan (of Politico) reported that it wasn’t just Kash who had been given privileged access to Trump’s Archives. Solomon had also been made Trump’s representative at the Archives.

    That seeming coincidence — that the FBI formally asked for surveillance videos showing who had accessed Trump’s stash of stolen records on the same day that Kash and Solomon were officially added to the list of those who represented Trump’s interests with the Archives — may raise the stakes of Trump’s legal exposure significantly.

    That’s because if Trump deliberately allowed people not permitted access to classified documents or his negligence allowed people to remove such documents, it would trigger other parts of the Espionage Act (18 U.S. Code § 793 (d) & (f))than the one that prohibits someone from stealing classified documents and refusing to give them back (and all are covered by the warrant).
    ………..
    Neither of these men would have been authorized to access classified documents, if they did, after January 20, 2021.
    ………..
    Kash Patel did have the top levels of clearance until Trump left office. But at least by April 2021, Kash was reported to be under investigation for leaking classified information.
    ……….
    (This) means both the men that Trump picked to dig through his documents would pose grave security concerns.

    And Kash, at least, is the single witness claiming — belatedly, starting in May — that Trump declassified this information. ……..Kash claimed Trump had declassified it all, but just not marked it as ……….
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  168. From the NY Post:

    Law enforcement sources told The Post that an initial investigation suggests Matar has made social media posts in support of Iran and its Revolutionary Guard, and in support of Shi’a extremism more broadly.

    New York State Police, however, said that Matar’s motive remained unclear.

    “We don’t have any indication of a motive at this time,” Major Eugene J. Staniszewski told reporters. He added that police believe Matar acted alone.

    Dana (1225fc)

  169. aren’t these espionage act violations normally settled on a tarmac in phx?

    JF (e1c801)

  170. Going after about Trump, eh, AG Fife???

    Have you found Hoffa yet? And while you’re looking for atomic stuff, — get on these cases, Barney:

    The U.S. Military Is Missing Six Nuclear Weapons

    February 13, 1950

    The longest missing nuclear weapon hasn’t been seen in 72 years, and it is unlikely it will be found anytime soon. It was lost when the crew of a United States Air Force Convair B-36 bomber was conducting a mock nuclear strike and was en route from Eielson Air Force Base (AFB), Alaska to Carswell AFB, Texas, when it developed engine trouble. Not wanting to have a crash with a nuclear warhead, the crew was ordered to drop its 30-kiloton Mark 4 (Fat Man) bomb into the Pacific Ocean. According to the “official” report, the bomb didn’t contain the plutonium core necessary for a nuclear detonation, but it still contained a substantial amount of uranium.

    March 10, 1956

    Six years after losing the first bomb, two nuclear cores were lost when a B-47 bomber likely crashed in the Mediterranean Sea while en route from MacDill AFB, Florida to Ben Guerir Air Base, Morocco. The aircraft had successfully completed its first aerial refueling, but it failed to make contact with a tanker for a second refueling and was reported missing. The exact weapon wasn’t disclosed, but the B-47 typically carried the 3,400-kilogram Mark 15 nuclear bomb. No trace of the plane nor the cores has ever been found.

    February 5, 1958

    During a simulated combat mission near Savannah, Georgia, another Air Force B-47 bomber carrying a Mk 15 weapon collided with an F-86. After multiple attempts to land, the bomber crew was given the green light to jettison the bomb to reduce weight, and also to ensure it wouldn’t explode during an emergency landing. The bomb, which was dropped over the Wassaw Sound near the mouth of the Savannah River, wasn’t recovered.

    January 24, 1961

    Somewhere near Goldsboro, North Carolina, a uranium core is likely buried in a field. It had been one of the cores for a pair of 24-megaton nuclear bombs that were on a B-52 that crashed shortly after takeoff. What is especially unsettling about this incident is that three of the four arming mechanisms on the bomb that was recovered had been activated.

    The second bomb’s tail was discovered 20 feet below ground in the muddy field, and when efforts to find the core failed to uncover it, the military did the next best thing. The United States Army Corps of Engineers purchased a 400-foot circular easement over the buried components to restrict digging.

    December 5, 1965

    Somehow an A-4E Skyhawk attack aircraft, loaded with a one-megaton thermonuclear weapon, managed to roll off the deck of the USS Ticonderoga and fell into the Pacific Ocean. The pilot, plane and bomb quickly sank in 16,000 feet of water and were never seen again.

    However, it wasn’t until 15 years later that the U.S. Navy even admitted the accident had taken place, and only noted it happened 500 miles from land. However, that wasn’t true – as the carrier was about 80 miles from Japan’s Ryuki island chain. As a result of that accident, the Japanese government now prohibits the United States from bringing nuclear weapons into its territory.

    Spring 1968

    The final bomb to be lost and not recovered occurred sometime in the first half of 1968, and involved the loss of the U.S. Navy’s nuclear attack submarine USS Scorpion, which sank about 400 miles to the southwest of the Azores Islands. In addition to the tragic loss of the 99 crewmembers, the submarine was carrying a pair of nuclear-tipped weapons, which had yields of up to 250 kilotons.

    While this should be as scary as suggested, the good news is that in the past 50 plus years, no other nuclear weapons have been lost – at least that we know of.

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/us-military-missing-six-nuclear-weapons-180032

    A government of Barney Fifes, Jacques Clouseaus, Mister Magoos… and Squinty McStumblebums.

    DCSCA (97f537)

  171. @170 That seems like a situation where you’d be able to find plenty of people to get in front of a camera and let you know exactly what they saw. The FBI wouldn’t need this mole we keep hearing about.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  172. THREE WAYS MERRICK GARLAND AND DOJ SPOKE OF TRUMP AS IF HE MIGHT BE INDICTED
    ……….
    They were subtle, but consistent references based in DOJ’s policy, one Garland’s DOJ has adhered to inflexibly, about avoiding discussion of any suspect unless they have been charged.

    First there was Garland’s statement. It was short, clocking in at fewer than 500 words. ……..
    ………
    ……… Garland suggested that there “will” come a time when he will be able to, under the same rules, provide a more fulsome explanation.
    ……….
    That description — the appropriate way, the appropriate time — is the way DOJ always refers to speaking through indictments.

    There’s a third, less surprising instance of this in the motion to unseal. In a footnote to an argument in the body of the motion in favor of a First Amendment right of access to court filings, it notes there’s no 11th Circuit ruling on whether that right extends to sealed search-warrant affidavits “at the preindictment stage.”
    ……….
    This is normal language in all fights over unsealing search warrants……..DOJ will rely on it heavily come Monday, when it makes a bid for more time before unsealing the affidavit itself.

    But like Garland’s own language, it describes this search as one not to collect information Trump forgot to return, but one conducted at a preindictment phase. That envisions at least the possibility of a time when the calculus about providing more information might be different because the former President would have been indicted.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  173. @174 Between friends, yes. Also, if one side has a group of associates with an unusually high mortality rate.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  174. Dana at 170. That’s our Orange. From May 15, 2017:

    Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador

    President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

    nk (15734c)

  175. Somebody who is the opposite of circumspect and disciplined (Trump) shouldn’t play fast and loose with classified documents.

    When the government contacted him about the records, it should have served as a wake-up call. (I know it would if the government contacted me.)

    It’s all too easy to imagine Trump getting annoyed about it, harrumphing, and ignoring it, because to take it seriously would mean subjugating himself to an administration who “stole” the election from him.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    norcal (da5491)

  176. Dana (1225fc) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:08 pm

    By Monday we will find out that Salman Rushdie’s assailant was on some law enforcement agency’s radar, just like Ricky Shiffer and innumerable other killers.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  177. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:24 pm

    They had to allege a crime to get a warrant correct? At this point, and for a variety of reasons, do they have any choice but to charge him?

    A different view of this might be that the DOJ not initially publicizing the search was to give themselves room to not indict him. But Trump himself seems to have taken that option off the table.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  178. I did not look into the story very closely, but apparently the hosts/venue at the Rushdie event are of the touchy-feely persuasion and they purposely had no screening for weapons in order not to spoil the gemütlichkeit.

    nk (15734c)

  179. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    norcal (da5491) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:31 pm

    let’s compare trump’s stupid prizes to garland’s

    and if there’s an indictment, garland can claim his stupid prize mega millions ticket

    JF (e1c801)

  180. They had to allege a crime to get a warrant correct?

    No. That the law forbade the “contraband” to be where it was is sufficient. Whether Trump possessed it, whether the possession was voluntary, and whether it was intentional, are issues for a criminal charge, but not necessary to recovering it through the use of a warrant.

    nk (15734c)

  181. let’s compare trump’s stupid prizes to garland’s

    “You’re gonna be walking a beat on Staten Island, you stupid flatfoot!”

    nk (15734c)

  182. I’m back at “Trump withdraws from politics, is not charged with any crime.” Maybe he pleads guilty to a misdemeanor.

    OTOH, that may not be offered. The Democrats not only want to win the midterms and will do nearly anything to accomplish that, but would like to permanently damage the Republican Party. Their actions over the past decade or two indicate they see no need for an opposition party.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  183. @JF@184 The information we seem to have is that the government asked for their documents back more than once, one time with a subpoena and didn’t get all their documents (whatever they were, whyever the government wanted them). Do you see another option than getting a warrant and taking them?

    Nic (896fdf)

  184. By Monday we will find out that Salman Rushdie’s assailant was on some law enforcement agency’s radar, just like Ricky Shiffer and innumerable other killers.

    Too bad there is no pre-crime arrest power like in Minority Report.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  185. I’m back at “Trump withdraws from politics, is not charged with any crime.”

    Which is precisely what the Swampy creatured Royalists- like Daddy Darth and Daughter Darth want.

    DCSCA (4bff59)

  186. let’s compare trump’s stupid prizes to garland’s

    JF (e1c801) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:43 pm

    Trump already has a multitude of stupid prizes, not the least of which is his stupid cult of butthurt followers, who manifest themselves by occasionally popping up and sniping, usually in the form of whataboutism.

    norcal (da5491)

  187. Trump is going to be badly treated after doing that favor for Bill Clinton and clearing the road for Hillary.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  188. Meanwhile Biden Passes Something!!!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  189. @184 Garland will get to claim his prize either way.

    If they don’t indict after claiming a crime was committed and then claiming to have evidence consistent with the crime he’s toast, Wray is toast, and the FBI/DOJ is in deep trouble. The Trump/NeverTrump conflict goes to a number where we remember 11 as a simpler time.

    If they do indict and they get anything less than iron clad evidence of treason same result. We remember 11 fondly and speak to our children of a bygone golden age.

    If they get iron clad evidence of treason the conflict level between Trump/NeverTrump will escalate to a level where 11 is no longer remembered and numbers themselves are considered the domain of magicians and alchemists. It’s unclear whether Garland, Wray, or the DOJ are toast or living large in the post apocalyptic wasteland.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  190. Cherchez la femme! They also change history whom nobody loves.

    I doubt that Biden would have gotten the 2008 nomination over Obama even if Hillary had not been the spoiler, but for sure only Hillary could have gotten Trump elected in 2016 and only Trump could have gotten Biden elected in 2020.

    nk (f5ab12)

  191. 175 – Captain Binghamton would fit right in with this F-Troop.

    mg (8cbc69)

  192. @196. Yes… and he could just scream.

    DCSCA (4bff59)

  193. Just like the ancient Egyptians did in 1478 BC with Pharaoh Hatshepsut’s reign – they tried to erase all history of her. Obviously, it didn’t work for the Egyptians and it won’t work for this twisted and tortured government
    Imagine how it feels to carry such a morbid fear and hatred of the one man that can and will expose their crimes and secrets so immense that they would rather face the wrath of over 100 million citizens and perhaps kill them in order to keep the secret and keep their power. This is the uni-party hackorama.

    mg (8cbc69)

  194. frosty (b6a3ab) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:06 pm

    That’s a very dark and gloomy take. I’m not buying it.

    norcal (da5491)

  195. More on Rushdie’s attacker:

    The suspect, 24-year-old Hadi Matar, was born in California, but recently moved to New Jersey, according to law enforcement sources familiar with the investigation. His last listed address was in Fairview, a Bergen County borough just across the Hudson River from Manhattan. FBI officials were seen going into the home of Matar Friday evening.

    Sources said that Matar also had a fake New Jersey driver’s license on him.

    State Police Maj. Eugene Staniszewski said the motive for the stabbing was unclear. A preliminary law enforcement review of Matar’s social media accounts shows he is sympathetic to Shia extremism and Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps causes, a law enforcement person with direct knowledge of the investigation told NBC News. There are no definitive links to the IRGC but the initial assessment indicates he is sympathetic to the Iranian government group, the official says.

    A little background on Rushdie for those not familiar with him or his work…or the fatwa on him:

    Rushdie’s 1988 novel was viewed as blasphemous by many Muslims, who saw a character as an insult to the Prophet Muhammad, among other objections. Across the Muslim world, often-violent protests erupted against Rushdie, who was born in India to a Muslim family.

    At least 45 people were killed in riots over the book, including 12 people in Rushdie’s hometown of Mumbai. In 1991, a Japanese translator of the book was stabbed to death and an Italian translator survived a knife attack. In 1993, the book’s Norwegian publisher was shot three times and survived.

    The book was banned in Iran, where the late leader Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a 1989 fatwa, or edict, calling for Rushdie’s death. Khomeini died that same year.

    Iran’s current Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has never issued a fatwa of his own withdrawing the edict, though Iran in recent years hasn’t focused on the writer.

    Iran’s mission to the United Nations did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Friday’s attack, which led a night news bulletin on Iranian state television.

    The death threats and bounty led Rushdie to go into hiding under a British government protection program, which included a round-the-clock armed guard. Rushdie emerged after nine years of seclusion and cautiously resumed more public appearances, maintaining his outspoken criticism of religious extremism overall.

    He said in a 2012 talk in New York that terrorism is really the art of fear.

    “The only way you can defeat it is by deciding not to be afraid,” he said.

    Anti-Rushdie sentiment has lingered long after Khomeini’s decree. The Index on Censorship, an organization promoting free expression, said money was raised to boost the reward for his killing as recently as 2016.

    Dana (1225fc)

  196. @185 I’ll rephrase; they asserted a crime to get the warrant correct? And now have claimed to have found evidence consistent with that assertion?

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  197. mg (8cbc69) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:17 pm

    mg, you’re a good guy, but that’s just crazy talk.

    norcal (da5491)

  198. The silence is deafening for those who accept how the professional republican club operates; the key word is “accept.” Unfortunately, there is a jaw-dropping amount of denial. We are seeing the outcome of Ron DeSantis being professionally managed by the GOPe club. You country clubber rinos should be happy.

    mg (8cbc69)

  199. @198. On the bright side, GOP and indy voters will so frigging angry next week over this when they cast ballots it’ll add an extra 10% to Daughter Darth’s loss.

    DCSCA (4bff59)

  200. You must not be living in America, norcal.

    mg (8cbc69)

  201. Norcal – they wanted all of Trumps papers from his years in office so they can destroy history. You need to get unwoke.

    mg (8cbc69)

  202. @199 Do you have an alternative? Charging or not charging Trump is a binary condition. Getting a conviction or not getting one is also a binary condition.

    All of the decisions that resulted in better options are in the past.

    If they don’t charge him what do you think happens?

    If they do and can’t convict what do you think happens?

    If they do, try him in DC, with everything that implies, and get a conviction what do you think happens?

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  203. The Joker… The Riddler… The Penguin… The Donald— yes, the Gotham City Orange Man would have made a great and entertaining foil for Batman & Robin circa 1966.

    DCSCA (4bff59)

  204. If they don’t charge him what do you think happens?

    If they do and can’t convict what do you think happens?

    If they do, try him in DC, with everything that implies, and get a conviction what do you think happens?

    frosty (b6a3ab) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:26 pm

    Not the doom and gloom you mention. Maybe a few nutjobs like the guy in Cincinnati.

    norcal (da5491)

  205. @187 That will most likely be interpreted as the DOJ blackmailing Trump to not run in 24. It will only add fuel to the planted evidence claims. In other words this was all political theater and that no one is above the law stuff was just a talking point.

    And that will not keep Trump out of politics.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  206. @185 I’ll rephrase; they asserted a crime to get the warrant correct? And now have claimed to have found evidence consistent with that assertion?

    They can act against property only.

    A state trooper pulls you over on I-55 for being a dark-skinned person on a sunny day. He asks you to open your trunk. You say no. He detains you until the canine unit arrives. The dog shows a positive response to drugs in your trunk. They phone it in as probable cause and get a warrant electronically. (Yes, you can get a warrant that way.)

    They open your trunk and find $200,000 in cash. They “recover” it and file a court case to have it impounded as illegal proceeds. In the meantime, they have decided you’re not all that dark and it’s not all that sunny, anyway, and let you go with a warning to “lighten up”. You don’t need to see a courthouse unless you want your money back.

    Okay?

    nk (b54b3a)

  207. I know it’s comforting to think that Garland painted himself into a corner and now he’s gonna get his, but it’s just wishful thinking. The one in the corner is Trump.

    nk (b54b3a)

  208. @frosty@207 This is in the not charging realm, and it might be underestimating the voters (though I hear that no one ever lost money doing that though) but I think that Garland could probably issue a statement that they got the documents back and that was what was important, thanks all, and then never mention it again. The 22 election is 3 months away, the normal voter just won’t care at that point and this will all just fall down a memory hole.

    Nic (896fdf)

  209. they wanted all of Trumps papers from his years in office so they can destroy history.

    I do not know if this had already been stated, but it occurs to me that There there were documents that concerned the actions of those that pushed the Russian hoax, the Hillary “matter,” and possibly the Hunter “matter.” Documents that could be “disappeared once Biden took office.

    So the DOJ is using their warrent to get these documents back.

    How does this fare in a smell test?

    Oh, and the deal about rummaging through Melania’s wardrobe pas prolly nothing more than an opportunity for the agents to take turns getting photographed in the coat that Melania wore which had “I don’t care, do you?” written on the back.

    felipe (484255)

  210. @felipe@214 Cannot tell if Poe. Is this Poe?

    Nic (896fdf)

  211. I know it’s comforting to think that Garland painted himself into a corner and now he’s gonna get his, but it’s just wishful thinking.

    Uh-huh…

    Presenting Attorney General Barney Fife and the U.S. Constitution:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx5d3haRG7M

    DCSCA (4bff59)

  212. they wanted all of Trumps papers from his years in office so they can destroy history.

    Trump doesn’t own his presidential papers. We all do.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  213. President Joe Biden is preparing to launch his re-election bid in the months after November’s midterm congressional elections, according to multiple aides and allies…
    [A]llies say Biden’s determination has grown amid revelations about Trump and his role in the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection, as well as the former president’s continued embrace by Republicans.

    Rest easy: it’s an uphill climb for him:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Mwc12LtRY

    DCSCA (4bff59)

  214. Well this is certainly giving Russia propagandists plenty to work with:

    Meanwhile in Russia: Putin’s mouthpieces on state TV are taunting America about “Top Secret” documents sought during the raid of Trump’s estate, which they claim had to do with the newest nuclear weapons developed by the US and gleefully imply that Moscow already got to see them.

    Dana (1225fc)

  215. Rmg, at 206 – that’s completely inconsistent with the way people I know on the left think. We don’t want to forget trump, we don’t want to memory hole him. We want his name to be blackened with infamy as a shining example to anyone else who might be tempted to use the office if the presidency to damage America the way he has.

    aphrael (954d17)

  216. They wanted all of Trump’s papers from his years in office so they can destroy history. You need to get unwoke.

    This is, of course, absurd. This portrayal of Trump as a victim of persecution just because he is being held to the same laws and standards as every other president is bonkers. On the flip side, why in God’s name would anyone want to destroy presidential papers? Even Trump’s – or especially Trump’s.

    He is not a savior, and never has been. And he only plays the persecuted victim because that’s the shtick that plays best in MAGAland. Everyone is evil and out to get him, and he is the only one who can save you.

    Talk about needing to wake up.

    Dana (1225fc)

  217. Kevin M – Trump would never carry out his side of such a bargain. Nor could it be enforced. And trading non prosecution for not running for public office is in and of itself an intolerable abuse of state power, something that would deeply injure the republic forever.

    If the Republicans choose to go down with Trump, that’s on them. They can make other choices.

    Or are they prisoners somehow?

    aphrael (954d17)

  218. Ex-Trump Aide Sics MAGA Lackeys on Alleged FBI Agents’ Families
    ………
    “This is one of the two feds who signed the ‘Receipt for Property’ form, which detailed—at a very high level—the fishing expedition that the FBI performed at Mar-a-Lago,” (Garrett) Ziegler said on both Truth Social and Telegram.

    The former Trump administration staffer further listed out the FBI agents’ date of birth, work emails and linked to alleged family members’ social media accounts.

    “Hope he doesn’t get a good night’s sleep for the rest of 2022,” Ziegler wrote on Truth Social, responding to another Truth Social user’s photos of one of the alleged FBI officials who signed off on the inventory receipts on the warrant.
    ……..
    “[Truth Social] Just took down the post for ZERO reason,” he said. “Didn’t violate 18 USC 119 or anything else.” ………
    “We have to have faces,” he said (on Telegram). “There are people ruining America, and they have names, and emails, and addresses.”

    Multiple attempts to reach Ziegler for comment were unsuccessful on Friday night.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  219. On the flip side, why in God’s name would anyone want to destroy presidential papers?

    Ask Nancy Peloisi, who tore up presidential papers- the SOTU speech– on live TV; or Rosemary Woods … better still, her boss about that 18 1/2 minute gap.

    DCSCA (6daf64)

  220. He is not a savior, and never has been.

    He is if you’re a Populist and not a Royalist. More Americans voted for Trump in 2020 than 2016.

    DCSCA (6daf64)

  221. If they get iron clad evidence of treason the conflict level between Trump/NeverTrump will escalate to a level where 11

    Let me get this straight. If the get iron-clad evidence that Trump sold the country out, the Trumpies will dial it up to 12? As things are going, there will be about 12 defenders of Trump in Congress a week from now, with some saying “if we only knew!”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  222. Kevin M – Trump would never carry out his side of such a bargain. Nor could it be enforced. And trading non prosecution for not running for public office is in and of itself an intolerable abuse of state power, something that would deeply injure the republic forever.

    OK, then convict him, sentence him to 100 years at hard labor, then offer clemency with conditions. Same result. Or impeach and convict him, and then let it go.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  223. And trading non prosecution for not running for public office is in and of itself an intolerable abuse of state power

    What do you think they did with Agnew?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  224. So many are so wrong time after time after time, dana.

    mg (8cbc69)

  225. And thanks to Boooosh taking out Saddam Hussein, Iraq no longer keeps Iran in check.

    mg (8cbc69)

  226. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has entered the managing phase of the GOPe candidate process.
    sad and pathetic

    mg (8cbc69)

  227. Whatever you may feel or think about Trump, it is undeniable that he has given his opponents some kind of toxic aggressive brain virus that rots their ability to reason or think and speak clearly.

    mg (8cbc69)

  228. Hayden is acting like someone that is scared of what Trump has the capability of revealing.

    mg (8cbc69)

  229. 25 Questions We Have (So Far) About The FBI Raid At Mar-A-Lago

    The Oracle of Delphi is no longer in business, but you can burn some oleander and inhale the smoke yourselves, and if Apollo is around he may inspire you with the answers.

    nk (075e65)

  230. If they do, try him in DC, with everything that implies, and get a conviction what do you think happens?

    He gets a sentence at the high end of the sentencing guidelines for the breach of trust, and serves it in supermax because he possesses so much information that we cannot let fall into the hands of our enemies.

    nk (075e65)

  231. one time with a subpoena and didn’t get all their documents (whatever they were, whyever the government wanted them). Do you see another option than getting a warrant and taking them?

    Nic (896fdf) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:58 pm

    Hold him in contempt for not complying with the subpoena?

    It sounds like they spent a bit of time at MAL getting documents they knew about.

    frosty (26304d)

  232. Trump already has a multitude of stupid prizes, not the least of which is his stupid cult of butthurt followers, who manifest themselves by occasionally popping up and sniping, usually in the form of whataboutism.

    norcal (da5491) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:00 pm

    You’ve done this twice now. Read Dana’s reminder that was the first thing she posted.

    Whataboutism is called equal justice under the law.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  233. We were told the warrant and the list of items recovered would be specific and limited. Instead they were vague and open ended. Funny how that no longer matters because “Trump.”

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  234. Let me get this straight. If the get iron-clad evidence that Trump sold the country out, the Trumpies will dial it up to 12? As things are going, there will be about 12 defenders of Trump in Congress a week from now, with some saying “if we only knew!”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:46 pm

    Not just the Trumpies.

    The Trumpers will simply claim he was framed with planted evidence because they will not believe iron clad evidence of espionage.

    The NeverTrumpers will assert that everyone in that first camp is a threat to democracy and the country and is actively aiding treason. And obviously you don’t just let something like that fester.

    Moreover, there will be a group of NeverTrump that won’t stop with Trump and be able to let Trumpers back away even if they wanted too.

    frosty (26304d)

  235. He gets a sentence at the high end of the sentencing guidelines for the breach of trust, and serves it in supermax

    Kevin, do you think in that scenario the Trumpies just respond with an “OK, I guess that’s that then”, walk away, and we go back to electing cookie cutter GOPe clones?

    frosty (26304d)

  236. Watch the vermin keep the spotlight on the former POTUS, in lieu of those with the power.

    Common cause, NeverTrump.

    Colonel Haiku (8bd58c)

  237. We were told the warrant and the list of items recovered would be specific and limited. Instead they were vague and open ended. Funny how that no longer matters because “Trump.”

    Yeah, that warrant makes me wonder, too. The elementary sloppiness in a case of this sensitivity, with so many resources and time available to law enforcement …?

    Is this a repeat of the first impeachment strategy? Where they didn’t want to convict Trump and run against Pence in 2020 — they wanted a weakened, distracted, and dirtied-up Trump. And now they want a weakened, distracted, and dirtied-up Trump to run against in 2024, and not one of the fresher and more generally appealing contenders?

    nk (d00e8d)

  238. @238 I don’t think norcal is who Dana was referring to nor do I think this is the type of comment. But I could be wrong.

    frosty (26304d)

  239. He’s being set up as sullied candidate, at least that’s what the Whitlock BlazeTV crew have been thinking. DeSantis really needs to work over his northeast paisans, probably among the most dug-in of the Trump partisans. Get them, and it becomes an insurance policy against Rust Belt pettiness toward Sun Belt candidates.

    urbanleftbehind (0b734c)

  240. Kevin, do you think in that scenario the Trumpies just respond with an “OK, I guess that’s that then”, walk away, and we go back to electing cookie cutter GOPe clones?

    We’ve been there before, frosty. Not 1860. 1923. When the Ku Klux Klan, led by the Evangelicals, controlled the politics of seven states. It was over by 1930. And the federal government is much stronger now.

    nk (3859ca)

  241. You’ve done this twice now. Read Dana’s reminder that was the first thing she posted.

    That’s not a personal attack against any person in this thread. That you took it as a personal attack on you, though, does say something.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  242. @247 NJRob didn’t say it was taken as a personal attack against him. That seems like a characterization you’re making.

    But what does it say about NJRob? This seems vague and it might help understand your point if you spoke more plainly.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  243. Whether he wrote it or his team of writers, Bill Maher’s monologue on Hollywood casting culture is brilliant.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  244. NJRob didn’t say it was taken as a personal attack against him.

    False. Rob literally referenced Dana’s comment that “personal attacks on commenters (or me) are out” when he went after Norcal.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  245. This is the 2nd time I’ve linked to Ms. Rangappa in two days. Smart lady.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  246. If someone crows about “dumbass NeverTrumpers”, I don’t take it as a personal attack because I don’t consider myself a dumbass.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  247. That’s not a personal attack against any person in this thread. That you took it as a personal attack on you, though, does say something.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/13/2022 @ 7:07 am

    I didn’t take it as a personal attack against me. I took it as a way to skirt the rules by posting an attack in a vague way against unnamed individuals that post here.

    It’s better than the usual Trump worshipper stuff we usually see though since no one posting here fits that strawman category.

    NJRob (ee3193)

  248. Patterico: “Personal attacks on commenters (or me) are out. Criticizing the arguments is fine. Criticizing the person is not.”

    Still, what happens when a site develops a serious troll problem and the bulk of the commenting traffic is bad-faith trolling and interactions with trolls? The blocking script might reduce the former problem but it doesn’t fix the often tediousness of the latter. And with genuinely committed trolls, it’s hard to find good signal through all of the noise.

    I suppose there is a fine line between trolling and where we are at generally with our politics these days. Both sides tend to overplay their hands and seek mostly to elicit reactions rather than a reasoned view of reality. We’ve lost or thoroughly discouraged some shrewd commenters over the years due to bad SNR, that’s a shame….

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  249. Still, what happens when a site develops a serious troll problem and the bulk of the commenting traffic is bad-faith trolling and interactions with trolls?

    The typical recommendation seems to be “start your own site.”

    BuDuh (9452d8)

  250. False. Rob literally referenced Dana’s comment that “personal attacks on commenters (or me) are out” when he went after Norcal.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/13/2022 @ 7:42 am

    The “or me” referenced in the quote is referring to Dana. The “commenters” referenced is a general reference. In neither case does NJRob need to be including himself. It’s possible that he could simply be pointing this out on behalf of other commenters or even people who haven’t commented and are simply reading along but might like to some time in the future.

    Again this seems to be a characterization you are making and it does not seem to be correct. It also seems like your characterizing it that way so that norcal‘s labels get imputed to NJRob.

    frosty (26304d)

  251. A key difference between ‘whatabout’ and ‘rule of law’ is in a failure to account for material differences in circumstances that could (and in some cases should) change the outcome.

    MAGA supports are committed to certain narratives, such as HRC was let off the hook because the system is corrupt.

    No explanation of differences in facts (such as pointing out that the the investigation of HRC was extremely public and leaky or that Trump did have someone appointed to reevaluate the decision not to charge her and they reached the same conclusion) is going to change that.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  252. Also, the spokespeople don’t talk about reforms and restoration, they talk about revenge and payback.

    Time123 (6b5fb1)

  253. @254, yes.

    Time123 (6b5fb1)

  254. FYI:

    The “or me” referenced in the quote is referring to Dana.

    Actually, Patterico is the “or me” as he wrote the commenting rules, which can be found in full at the link provided at the top of the post.I am one of the “on commenters”.

    Dana (1225fc)

  255. When an unlikable shrew like Lizzie Warren says something like, “everyone tells me they would vote for me if I had a penis,” when automatic reaction is: Who told you, give me some names.

    I have the same sentiment when a person trots out a line of rhetorical bullsh-t like “we were told”. Who exactly told you? What exactly were they telling?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  256. AJ_Liberty (c916b7) — 8/13/2022 @ 7:58 am

    We’ve reached a point where “trolling” is just a term that gets applied to things said by people we don’t like. The idea of a “bad faith” argument has also been watered down.

    True trolls aren’t that hard to deal with. They’re easy to ignore once you spot them and you don’t need the blocking script. Sometimes they say something that is funny.

    If you think you’re stuck in a bad-faith interaction with a troll it’s more than likely you’re really just tied up with someone as hardheaded and as stubborn as you and you aren’t willing to concede points where the other side is right. Then the accusation of trolling is just an easy way out that doesn’t require you to adjust your priors.

    frosty (26304d)

  257. I took it as a way to skirt the rules by posting an attack in a vague way against unnamed individuals that post here.

    So what. It doesn’t breach the commenting rules, and the line is pretty clear.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  258. I have the same sentiment when a person trots out a line of rhetorical bullsh-t like “we were told”. Who exactly told you? What exactly were they telling?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/13/2022 @ 8:26 am

    I have that reaction when someone trots out “sources say” and they don’t even bother to add the “anonymous” because it’s so routine.

    Also, “people familiar with the investigation”, “people inside the department”, and “sources high up within the organization”.

    frosty (26304d)

  259. > Whataboutism is called equal justice under the law.

    It has *never* been the case that an unfair decision to not prosecute person A means that person B can commit crimes without fear of prosecution.

    If the county decides not to prosecute one drug dealer, does it give up its right to prosecute other drug dealers? If a county decides not to prosecute the sheriff’s son for rape, does it give up the right to prosecute other rapists?

    Whataboutism in this case is an excuse to deflect discussion about one person’s bad behavior by redirecting the conversation to another person and using that other person’s bad behavior as an excuse to make it seem like it’s wrong to be upset about the first person’s bad behavior.

    It’s the argument of a toddler, and it’s frankly embarassing coming from anyone who has ever said anything about believing people need to take personal responsibility for their own actions.

    aphrael (954d17)

  260. Seventh news item

    I’m glad kids don’t have to wear masks at school but it’s going to take a long time to recover from the damage we did there.

    frosty (26304d)

  261. “This is one of the two feds who signed the ‘Receipt for Property’ form, which detailed—at a very high level—the fishing expedition that the FBI performed at Mar-a-Lago,” (Garrett) Ziegler said on both Truth Social and Telegram.

    The former Trump administration staffer further listed out the FBI agents’ date of birth, work emails and linked to alleged family members’ social media accounts.

    “Hope he doesn’t get a good night’s sleep for the rest of 2022,” Ziegler wrote on Truth Social, responding to another Truth Social user’s photos of one of the alleged FBI officials who signed off on the inventory receipts on the warrant.
    ……..
    “[Truth Social] Just took down the post for ZERO reason,” he said. “Didn’t violate 18 USC 119 or anything else.” ………

    “We have to have faces,” he said (on Telegram). “There are people ruining America, and they have names, and emails, and addresses.”

    “[Truth Social] Just took down the post for ZERO reason,” he said. “Didn’t violate 18 USC 119 or anything else.” ………

    “We have to have faces,” he said (on Telegram). “There are people ruining America, and they have names, and emails, and addresses.

    It’s right that Truth Social took down the post. That the person who is baffled by the removal of it is either very ignorant or playing dumb. Almost assuredly, this same individual strongly opposed the Supreme Court Justices’ home addresses being made public and becoming the site of protests, post-Dobbs. The hypocrisy speaks for itself.

    Releasing home addresses and encouraging protests at the homes of people who make you angry is simply wrong. It unnecessarily puts the target and their spouses and children at risk. The latter two groups have done nothing other than being related to the employee the protesters are angry with.

    To not be a hypocrite, you can’t say it’s OK when you’re guys do it but bad when the other side does it. Idiots.

    Dana (1225fc)

  262. If the county decides not to prosecute one drug dealer, does it give up its right to prosecute other drug dealers?

    No. But the more you do that the more claiming equal justice and rule of law sounds hollow. If a county decides it only prosecuted drug deals who went to the Methodist church but members of the Baptist church were routinely not prosecuted would that be ok? It matters why they weren’t prosecuted and people should be expected to care about things like that.

    If a county decides not to prosecute the sheriff’s son for rape, does it give up the right to prosecute other rapists?

    No, but again if there’s a pattern of corruption there’s a problem.

    Whataboutism in this case is

    Yes, where that is happening that is true.

    But it’s also true that it’s a strawman to say that people are simply claiming one wrong is justified by another when they are pointing out apparent disparities. Dismissing everything as whataboutism is just the flip side of the whataboutsim coin. It’s an effort to deflect discussion.

    frosty (26304d)

  263. The Southern Baptist Convention is also under federal investigation, which I suppose can happen when there are so many valid charges of pastor sexual abuse.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  264. @268 meant to have;

    If a county has a Baptist prosecutor who decides

    frosty (26304d)

  265. The hellhole that is Canada.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  266. @269 Yes. They are in a bit of trouble. That might be why they’re drifting towards the woke.

    frosty (26304d)

  267. When an unlikable shrew like Lizzie Warren says something like, “everyone tells me they would vote for me if I had a penis,”

    This is a totally unbelievable statement, and very consistent with Warren’s shaky relationship with the truth.

    Also, it’s 2022 – nobody buys this bullshit. If she’s gonna lie, she should really think it through before spouting off. Hillary, while a strong contender, most certainly lost the election in large part because she was just a bad candidate (and her opponent happened to be a flashy reality star who knew how to play on the sympathies of angry voters). I don’t think anyone, even the most strident feminists believe that a woman can’t get elected president. The problem isn’t an individual’s sex, the problem is a lack of formidable women from both parties and the parties’ seeming reluctance to back one.

    Dana (1225fc)

  268. *Every* real-life (as opposed to online) female friend of mine with whom I have discussed politics is *convinced* that sexism played a major role in Hillary’s defeat, and that it continues to play a major role in reducing the power of female politicians *and* executives *and* middle managers — and all of them are basing their belief on the way they themselves have been treated by powerful men in their workplaces.

    aphrael (954d17)

  269. Dana – I think, for example, Amy Klobuchar would have beaten Donald Trump in 2016, easily. (I say that, even though I disagree with her on many issues.)

    One of the strangest things about the 2016 election is that the three people with the highest negatives, Trump, Clinton, and Cruz, did best in the primaries. It is as if many voters were saying: I want a nominee the other tribe hates.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  270. Hm, that’s interesting, aphrael. I don’t find that from the circles of women I know. To the contrary. These women are actually angry that neither party is interested in putting forward women who can not only do the job but also have the draw and charisma to win over voters. It’s simply not an issue of knowing your stuff and having experience (which obviously Hillary did) but a nominee must have a level of charisma, positive energy, and all that goes with it to draw in voters. Hillary had way too much baggage, was too angry, and presented a cold and unwelcoming visage. She lacked the charisma part, and I think that was a turn off to many. Like it or not, this is the system and this is how the game is played.

    Dana (1225fc)

  271. I agree re Klobuchar, Jim Miller.

    Dana (1225fc)

  272. It’s not just that Warren is an unlikable shrew, she also spoke plenty of nonsense during her candidacy, such as that Michael Brown was murdered (Kamala said that, too).

    Traditional conservatives like me had no trouble with Lady Thatcher at the helm, but Nikki ain’t no Lady Thatcher, nor any of the others in Trump’s orbit.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  273. Whether I agree with Warren’s positions or not, it’s obvious that she is a very smart and knowledgeable individual and one who understands politics. What she lacks, however, besides being less than truthful, is warmth, charisma, and the ability to convince voters that she has the skillset necessary to build relationships for the greater good with those on the other side of the aisle, which is critical. Or was it before this insanely polarized era we find ourselves in.

    But perhaps I’m speaking as one who won’t simply vote for a woman because she’s a woman.

    Dana (1225fc)

  274. @270 After all of the years making jokes about Catholics the Baptists might be karmicly challenged. I don’t expect them to stop with the jokes though. If the Baptists are anything it’s committed to dogma and tradition.

    frosty (26304d)

  275. @280 what it is with this guy and the typos today; @280 should have referenced @269

    frosty (26304d)

  276. Here’s my favorite cartoon in this week’s Politico collection. (Mostly, for the drawing and the literary reference, I’ll admit.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  277. The problem isn’t an individual’s sex, the problem is a lack of formidable women from both parties and the parties’ seeming reluctance to back one.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/13/2022 @ 8:53

    Elizabeth Doyle comes to mind – I’vs always had the same thoughts

    EPWJ (caf7f0)

  278. In short, either Trump lied to his lawyers or his lawyers lied to the feds. Either way, it was reason for the obstruction charge in the warrant.

    At least one lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump signed a written statement in June asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government, four people with knowledge of the document said.

    The written declaration was made after a visit on June 3 to Mar-a-Lago by Jay I. Bratt, the top counterintelligence official in the Justice Department’s national security division.

    I sort of knew this, but it’s noteworthy that it was DOJ counter-intelligence or National Security Division involved.

    I have that reaction when someone trots out “sources say” and they don’t even bother to add the “anonymous” because it’s so routine.

    That’s your issue, not mine. We were told that newspapers are the first draft of history, the key words being “first draft”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  279. Geoffrey Fowler reminds us that our gadgets don’t have to die as soon as they do.

    If you’ve got a pair of Apple AirPods, they’re going to die — likely sooner rather than later.

    With mine, the battery lasted a little over two years. And when it could no longer hold a charge, I had to toss it out and buy new AirPods, because the dead battery is glued inside.

    And he found other gadgets, with rechargeable batteries he owns, have similar shortened lives.

    To be fair, there are legitimate reasons for glueing or soldering in such batteries; it makes it easier to make the devices thin, and, more importantly, waterproof. But mostly the tech companies, following Apple’s lead, are profiting from “planned obsolescence”. Despite the costs to the environment, and consumers.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  280. Three Year Letterman is a guilty pleasure.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  281. That’s your issue, not mine.

    Fair enough. That wasn’t the reaction I was expecting to a comment that essentially agreed with you though.

    frosty (26304d)

  282. Dana – I think, for example, Amy Klobuchar would have beaten Donald Trump in 2016, easily. (I say that, even though I disagree with her on many issues.)

    One of the strangest things about the 2016 election is that the three people with the highest negatives, Trump, Clinton, and Cruz, did best in the primaries. It is as if many voters were saying: I want a nominee the other tribe hates.

    Jim Miller (85fd03) — 8/13/2022 @ 9:09 am

    Interesting. And true. Trump’s biggest plus is that the other side really goes nuts. And this tends to create some blindspots. Unfortunately the world is now so much worse off for how both political parties have abused the lucrative aspect of maximizing activist and donor engagement.

    If generally normal people were the nominees, there’s a lot less money flying around to stop them. Gotta have those crises to not waste.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  283. Interesting thread about how material science can help reduce environmental impacts.

    https://twitter.com/perdricof/status/1558045883006164992?s=21&t=oLzcSa3V_TpiapMyRJu5Qg

    Time123 (5e04e7)

  284. The least of Trump’s legal problems:

    Hillary Clinton uses Trump’s tweets against him in RICO lawsuit
    ………
    In a joint Thursday filing, lawyers for Clinton and other defendants — among them John Podesta, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Marc Elias, Michael Sussmann, Glenn Simpson, Igor Danchenko, Rodney Joffe, the Democratic National Committee, and the law firm Perkins Coie — reasserted arguments that Trump’s claims were barred by the statute of limitations despite Trump’s “novel” attempt to pause the clock during his four-year term as president.

    ………(T)he U.S. Supreme Court has held that a four-year statute of limitations applies to civil RICO claims. Federal statutes say a four-year statute of limitations applies to civil claims which arise “under an Act of Congress,” but there are exceptions for certain cases, such as matters involving securities.

    Trump’s legal team claimed on Aug. 4 that the “immense and unrelenting demands involved in serving as President” made it impossible for Trump to file his RICO lawsuit against myriad actors connected to Clinton’s 2016 campaign at an earlier date. Trump’s lawyers asked U.S. District Judge Donald M. Middlebrooks to grant “an equitable tolling of all relevant statutes of limitations” in Trump’s favor.

    Clinton and a collection of other defendants replied Thursday to those assertions (we’ve omitted most of the legal citations):

    Plaintiff argues that he is entitled to equitable tolling during his presidential term because “he was preoccupied with carrying out his eminently important presidential duties” and was “tirelessly . . . devoted to serving the Nation and ensuring the well-being of the American people.” Plaintiff failed to plead these factual predicates for his latest effort to avoid the statute of limitations. And any such pleading would be futile, because no authority supports the “rare remedy” of equitable tolling here.

    Indeed, the Supreme Court has held that presidential duties do not afford a President shelter from civil litigation. Although Plaintiff relies on language from Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. 681 (1997), he ignores its holding. There, the Court rejected a stay of civil litigation during President Clinton’s term. Notwithstanding the burdens of the office, the Court concluded that the President’s engagement in civil litigation would not unduly interfere with his responsibilities.

    ………..
    “Plaintiff nowhere acknowledges that his own tweets prove he was on notice of his purported claims, at the very latest, by October 2017,” Clinton and the other defendants asserted in their Thursday filing.
    ……….
    “He simply reiterates and block-quotes allegations in the Amended Complaint (‘AC’), asserting they must be adequate because they are voluminous. But notwithstanding the density of Plaintiff’s allegations, each claim is missing necessary legal predicates, devoid of well-pleaded factual allegations, or improperly based on ‘labels and conclusions or a formulaic recitation of the elements.’ [Citation omitted.] And where Plaintiff cites cases, they are irrelevant, distinguishable, or — often — contrary to his own position.”
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  285. @285 I’m a fan of right to repair but companies aren’t marketing to me.

    frosty (26304d)

  286. Paul, if that’s accurate, and if they had reason to believe he still had TS material, it could explain why they felt the need to execute a search warrant.

    Time123 (5e04e7)

  287. Trump fans need to accept that the timing here indicates a lot of savvy thinking. This isn’t a last ditch effort after Trump was exonerated a bunch of times. None of those other scandals were really hoaxes. That’s dumb propaganda and Trump is essentially the same as Hillary – above the law. That isn’t going to change.

    Trump will be the theme of the midterm election because that’s the only way the democrats win. Biden is unelectable, but he’s the president.

    There’s a drip drip drip plan here, and it’s not some clumsy game where they don’t know what’s coming in a month, two months, October, November.

    By all means, be upset that Hillary did similar things (I don’t care which was worse… both were beyond what’s acceptable to any patriotic American). She’s above the law and that’s wrong. Trump won’t be going to prison either. He’s at his greatest utility to the left right now, telling jokes about the nuke codes to raise money.

    If anybody is going to run around angry that good people decided not to vote for Trump, they are in need of some good medicine, but there’s no hero in this story. Nobody has handled this situation by taking the politics out of it.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  288. Dustin, brilliant and well stated comment.

    Time123 (5e04e7)

  289. Glu-lam beams are so 1980s, Time.
    Good stuff.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  290. Dana, I certainly agree that Hillary had a charisma gap, and that it wasn’t helped by some of her fans more absurd claims (the claim that she was the most qualified candidate ever was particularly absurd).

    But I also find that I don’t understand what charisma moves middle America; a lot of people think Trump is charismatic, while I think he’s anti-charismatic. So there’s something I don’t get about this.

    And I am certainly not alleging that you would not vote for a woman because they’re a woman; you have shown no evidence that would incline me to think that’s true. On the other hand, if that’s true of even 2-3% of the electorate, that difference is enough to throw a close election like the 2016 one.

    Which is to say: Hillary’s loss in 2016 was the result of many factors *any one of which*, had it gone differently, would have been enough to change the result. I think it’s entirely plausible that one of those factors was discomfort with leaders of her gender.

    aphrael (954d17)

  291. > It is as if many voters were saying: I want a nominee the other tribe hates.

    This is clearly true of Trumpists; it’s very important to many of them to pwn the libs, and so the fact that people on the left really dislike someone is a *bonus* to them.

    I think it’s less true of the left; most people I know don’t *care* what conservatives think, and so aren’t particularly animated by a desire to anger or irritate conservatives.

    The one exception I think is support for Newsom’s anti-gun law that copies the horrible TX anti-abortion law’s more problematic features — but even that isn’t driven by a desire to stick it to the magats, it’s driven by a desire to force the supreme court to wrestle with a contradiction in their legal theory which my friends hope will force them to change their mind on the tx law.

    aphrael (954d17)

  292. Dustin,

    I agree that there are no truth-tellers in this play, but I am not quite so cynical to believe that — after weeks of these leaks and innuendo — that the public will allow it to be ignored, or used to generate talking points.

    There is the potential that it is total BS as well, at which point Trump has to act to, um, clear his name.

    But you’re right they will wont to milk this through November. Witness the Oct 24th date for the NY Trump Organization tax trial. That timing was entirely the choice of the NY AG.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  293. Far-right media outlet slammed for publishing names of FBI agents in Trump raid

    Breitbart is facing widespread criticism after the far-right media outlet published the names of FBI agents who carried out the raid of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home.

    The conservative outlet published a leaked version of the search warrant that allowed the FBI to execute the raid hours before the document was unsealed Friday evening. Breitbart released a version of the warrant that included the names of the FBI special agent and supervisor agent who signed off on the receipts detailing the documents taken from the Mar-a-Lago residence — prompting widespread criticism that the outlet put a target on the agents.
    ……….

    MAGAWorld is cool with naming names.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  294. I think it’s less true of the left; most people I know don’t *care* what conservatives think, and so aren’t particularly animated by a desire to anger or irritate conservatives.

    Of course, a nominee who promises to put a lot of Rethuglicans in jail might get some votes. The extremes on both sides have dialed up the hate factor quite a bit. In places like Cuba or Mao’s China there was quite a bit of retribution against the Right.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  295. Majority of Americans continue to favor moving away from Electoral College
    ……..
    Around six-in-ten U.S. adults (63%) say the way the president is elected should be changed so that the winner of the popular vote nationwide wins the presidency, while 35% favor keeping the current Electoral College system, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted June 27-July 4, 2022. There has been a modest increase in the share of Americans who favor changing the way presidents are elected: In January 2021, the last time the Center asked this question, 55% said the system should be changed, while 43% supported maintaining the existing system.
    ………
    As in past years, Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents are far more likely than Republicans and Republican leaners to support moving to a popular vote system (80% vs. 42%). The share of Democrats saying this is up 9 percentage points from January 2021, but about on par with views in 2020. While a majority of Republicans (56%) continue to say the current Electoral College system should be maintained, the share who now express support for moving to a popular vote system is the highest it’s been since the 2016 election: 42% say this today, up from 37% in 2021 and just 27% in the immediate wake of the 2016 election.
    ……….
    Younger adults are somewhat more supportive of changing the system than older adults: Seven-in-ten Americans ages 18 to 29 support changing the system, compared with 56% of those 65 or older.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  296. Good news about Kherson, a strategically important city in Putin’s war, if this account is true. Control of Kherson means control of a chunk of the Crimean water supply. Zelenskyy hasn’t said a lot about the Crimean region of Ukraine, but he recently stated this:

    “This Russian war against Ukraine and against the entire free Europe began with Crimea and must end with Crimea—with its liberation.”

    More missiles, more sanctions. Slava Ukraini!

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  297. As Partisan Hostility Grows, Signs of Frustration With the Two-Party System
    ………
    ……… In 2016, about half of Republicans (47%) and slightly more than a third of Democrats (35%) said those in the other party were a lot or somewhat more immoral than other Americans. Today, 72% of Republicans regard Democrats as more immoral, and 63% of Democrats say the same about Republicans.

    The pattern is similar with other negative partisan stereotypes: 72% of Republicans and 64% of Democrats say people in the opposing party are more dishonest than other Americans. Fewer than half in each party said this six years ago. Large majorities in both parties also describe those in the other party as more closed-minded than other Americans (83% of Democrats and 69% of Republicans say this), and this sentiment also has increased in recent years.
    ……….
    ………. Democrats are more likely than Republicans to express a desire for more political parties: 38% of those who identify with the Democratic Party say this describes their views extremely or very well, compared with 21% of Republicans. Yet it is among independents and others who do not identify with a party that the sentiment is most pronounced: 48% say it describes their views extremely or very well, including 48% of those who lean Republican and 53% of those who lean Democratic.

    Overall, interest in having more political parties is higher among younger Americans than older adults. Nearly half of those ages 18 to 49 say they often wish there were more parties to choose from (47% say it describes their views extremely or very well); that compares with 35% of those ages 50 to 64 and just 23% of those 65 and older.

    Neither party is very popular with the public: Roughly four-in-ten Americans (41%) have a very or somewhat favorable view of the Democratic Party, while even fewer (37%) have a favorable impression of the Republican Party.

    The current political system doesn’t favor multiple political parties. The existing political parties control ballot access through the states, which make it extremely difficult to create a new national party. The only way change can occur is if an existing party “dies” and is replaced by another (as when the Republicans replaced the Whigs). Multi-party systems tend to flourish in parliamentary democracies. Wishful thinking. .

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  298. Whether he wrote it or his team of writers, Bill Maher’s monologue on Hollywood casting culture is brilliant.

    “Why do you think they become actors? Because they want to spend their life not being who they are.”

    Hmmmm. You do realize Maher is a thespian wannabe himself; albeit a weak one:

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005175/

    Appears casting directors are good at their jobs after all.

    DCSCA (cf5d60)

  299. @278. Lest you forget, Warren began her political career as a traditional ‘establishment’ Republican. Haley is no Thatcher; she’s not an old bag either– and much easier on the eyes. Give Nikki some time; stuff her in a below the knee royal blue dress, some gawdy pendants; cement a 1978 salt ‘n’ pepper hairdo on her and she’ll make the grade with you. 😉

    DCSCA (cf5d60)

  300. Miller, I liked the Politico Jesus cartoon and the courtroom one where the GOP elephant…with little hands… was under oath being questioned about being the law and order party. Sadly, both say something poignant about the GOP.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  301. Trump: There was a standing order that any documents I removed were declassified

    Oh yeah? Where is that order?

    Surely it must have been written down at some point. Let’s see it.

    Every Trump scandal is ultimately a loyalty test for his fans but this is an especially stark example. Only the most truehearted of MAGA true believers will be willing to swallow this swill.
    ………
    You can tell how panicked he is about his potential criminal exposure by how quickly his excuses have shifted, sometimes in contradictory ways. In the span of 48 hours, he went from accusing the FBI of planting evidence at Mar-a-Lago to whatabouting that Obama also retained documents after leaving office (he didn’t) to insisting that any classified material found at Mar-a-Lago was *inherently* declassified.
    ………
    If they were planted, how is it that the Trump family failed to notice them being planted while they watched the search play out on CCTV?

    That inconvenient fact probably explains why Trump and his allies pivoted away from accusing the FBI of corruption, which on the merits is far better suited to his narrative about persecution by the “deep state,” to making dubious legal arguments about the mechanics of declassification. ……..

    Is that right? One federal appellate court seems to believe that the “rich debate” is already settled:

    Steve Vladeck
    @Steve Vladeck

    Declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures.”

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, in a 2020 decision about whether public comments by then-President Trump had inadvertently declassified a covert CIA program:
    ……….

    ……….
    ………. The idea of a “standing order” on declassification known only to Trump himself is essentially an attempt to issue a self-pardon through the back door, though. He can’t be prosecuted for removing classified material, his theory goes, because he (ab)used his presidential power to grant himself inherent immunity from that type of offense.

    But there’s a big flaw in that strategy. Namely, whether the material at Mar-a-Lago was properly declassified or not doesn’t actually matter to his case.

    Barbara McQuade
    @Barbara McQuade

    Brilliant tactical move by DOJ on selecting statutes for the search. None of the crimes cited require the documents to be classified. Any claim by Trump that he declassified the documents is irrelevant. I’ll discuss at 7 am ET on
    @MSNBC

    Clearly the DOJ anticipated that he’d argue that documents recovered by the feds were no longer classified. So they’re looking at charging him under three statutes that don’t actually require material to be classified for criminal liability to attach. The Espionage Act, for instance, speaks broadly of material “connected with the national defense,” not classified material specifically. The idea of a “standing” declassification is fun and all but ultimately a red herring with respect to whether he might face charges.

    The same goes with lying to the feds. …….

    That might explain why the feds took the unusual, highly provocative step of searching Mar-a-Lago. …….
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  302. “But I also find that I don’t understand what charisma moves middle America; a lot of people think Trump is charismatic”

    Hillary is screechy. Some people can come across charming…as her husband did…she does not. Bill came across as far less ideological too, and, though wonkish, he understood how to connect with people. Even some Republicans would want to have a beer with Bill. Liz Warren looked really awkward with the beer in the kitchen commercial. It came across as inauthentic, which is bad for someone who came across as inauthentically Indian. Warren also comes across as an academic who has not really accomplished anything real. Hillary on the other hand was actually a decent retail politician as a NY senator but that get-things-done-personality was over-taken by the perception that she was an elitist shrew. I don’t think that all women politicians are perceived that way, but Hillary is the poster child.

    Certainly men have more margin with being aggressive. We see it with DeSantis who comes across as a bit of a bully. Though, the visual with the masked high schoolers was not a good one. There’s a line between tough and a$$ and he pushes it. He will have to figure out how to look more appealing in the swing states, but he also has to hang on to his former Trump supporters.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  303. If the choice were just between Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders I’d vote Warren all day long and twice on Sunday, but I do know a fair number of people who had said in 2016 that it wasn’t gender that kept them from voting Clinton in 20216, they liked Sander’s policies in 2016 but that they didn’t really like him and they’d rather vote Warren, who then voted Sanders over Warren in the primary in 2020. And who basically pointed and went, “LOOK! SHINY THING!” and ran away if you tried to ask them about it. So I do think there were at least some gender issues involved.

    @Dustin@293 Trump will be the theme of the midterm election because that’s the only way the democrats win. Biden is unelectable, but he’s the president.

    I agree with most of your comment, but it think it’s also that Trump is still taking up all the oxygen in the room in both political parties. Biden isn’t exciting to talk about and I’m not sure he’d really be the center of the conversation even if Trump weren’t available to take that spot. Most of the time if someone is talking against the current Democratic bench, they want to talk about AOC and the squad, not Biden.

    @aphrael@298 But I also find that I don’t understand what charisma moves middle America; a lot of people think Trump is charismatic, while I think he’s anti-charismatic. So there’s something I don’t get about this.

    Trump definitely has charisma. He can absolutely hold a crowd. And he’s not boring to watch, even if you totally disagree with everything he says. He’s a very skilled demagogue, which helps as well. Obama was more charismatic, though, and could, when he wanted, do it without the demagoguery. I’d say that over the last 40 years, the top most charismatic candidates were Reagan, Bill Clinton, Obama, Trump, McCain.

    Nic (896fdf)

  304. Hm,… I don’t find that from the circles of women I know. To the contrary. These women are actually angry that neither party is interested in putting forward women who can not only do the job but also have the draw and charisma to win over voters. It’s simply not an issue of knowing your stuff and having experience (which obviously Hillary did) but a nominee must have a level of charisma, positive energy, and all that goes with it to draw in voters. Hillary had way too much baggage, was too angry, and presented a cold and unwelcoming visage. She lacked the charisma part, and I think that was a turn off to many. Like it or not, this is the system and this is how the game is played.

    That’s a reasonable assessment, Dana. Still, she was the nominee and she got more of the popular vote over Trump. HRC remains ambitious, riding others coat tails if necessary; and has been since first appearing on the national scene in a June, 1969 issue of LIFE magazine- [a month before the first moon landing, no less]:

    https://www.life.com/people/life-with-hillary-portraits-of-a-wellesley-grad-1969/

    HILLARY RODHAM APPEARED IN LIFE MAGAZINE FIFTY YEARS AGO TODAY Jun 20, 2019

    https://clintonhousemuseum.org/hillary-rodham-appeared-in-life-magazine-fifty-years-ago-today/

    Still, trying to maintain any sort of public relevancy over a society that has massively changed half-a-century-later is ‘clingy.’ The positive elements of the 60’s feminism she championed are well established into society now; the lesser elements, long rejected or dead.

    She’s has the POTUS bug. I believe if the party calls at the convention, Harris will get the Eagleton ‘bum’s rush’ “for the good of the party”– and “bumped up to the front office” in some good gig; and HRC will ride Joe’s coattails in as VP as well experienced insurance for a near death POTUS to try to save the win– and w/no heavy primary battles nor fundraising to do, slide into the Oval w/minimal hassle once Joe resigns for health issues– or punches out. And should Joe lose, the blame goes to the top of the ticket, as usual.

    DCSCA (cf5d60)

  305. “But I also find that I don’t understand what charisma moves middle America; a lot of people think Trump is charismatic”

    He’s entertaining. Never forget that in this day and age, Americans don’t want to be government, they wish to be entertained.

    It’s doubtful The Joe Show’s 87,000 armed IRS Army are seen as entertaining.

    “Hillary is screechy.”

    Nah. More preachy– and a nag. She just reminds every man over 55 why he divorced his first wife in 1975. You ever see one of those toy dogs grandparents back in the days would put in the back windows of their big Buicks – the kind that have those heads that nod up and down with the motion of the car? Hillary does that. And that is truly deplorable. 😉

    DCSCA (cf5d60)

  306. Watch the vermin keep the spotlight on the former POTUS

    I think you mistake who is controlling the spotlight.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  307. I wonder how many of Trump’s die-hard defenders truly believe he’s not the kind of person who would ever be reckless with sensitive information — though we already had evidence that he was, and people familiar with the intelligence community have said that intel officers were so alarmed they started withholding some info from him.

    How many Trump apologists really believe he could not conceivably have broken any important rules or laws? Even though they said his willingness to defy rules and norms was actually a virtue.

    How many Trumpers believe he’s not the kind of person who would think, “I can keep it if I want to, and nobody can tell me I can’t”?

    Anyone who believes those things is willfully blind.

    Trumpers said that Trump was unlike any other president. He would “break what needs to be broken.” They anointed him their warrior against “the establishment.”

    Now they’re outraged at the suggestion that he did something unprecedented in a bad way, and outraged that his actions prompted an unprecedented response. They want us to believe that he punctiliously followed all the procedures set up by the establishment they’ve been trashing.

    Or else they basically just say, “The Duly Elected President can do whatever he wants!” (Except for any president not named Donald Trump.)

    The weirdest thing is how, in any conflict between Trump and anyone else, their default is that Trump is totally in the right, while his opponents are corrupt by virtue of getting in his way or displeasing him.

    Radegunda (d85f44)

  308. 274 – Margaret Thatcher won’t be walking through that door.

    mg (8cbc69)

  309. To not be a hypocrite, you can’t say it’s OK when you’re guys do it but bad when the other side does it. Idiots.

    Nor can you send the cops to arrest protesters in the one case and not the other.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  310. To be fair, there are legitimate reasons for glueing or soldering in such batteries; it makes it easier to make the devices thin, and, more importantly, waterproof. But mostly the tech companies, following Apple’s lead, are profiting from “planned obsolescence”. Despite the costs to the environment, and consumers.

    Doesn’t matter. Eventually the new iOS won’t support it, and apps will demand a newer iOS.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  311. Majority of Americans continue to favor moving away from Electoral College

    That’s because all they have gotten is propaganda from one side. There are more reasons not to do that than reasons TO do it. Among other reasons, the likelihood of complete failure in a close election. Consider the election of 1960 as a pure popular vote election; decided by about 100,000 votes with CREDIBLE evidence of a million vote fraud in Chicago.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  312. HILLARY RODHAM APPEARED IN LIFE MAGAZINE FIFTY YEARS AGO TODAY Jun 20, 2019

    She had the wokester head-tilt even then.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  313. 293 – Hey Dustin, Enjoyed the comment. The republicans have acquired a taste for 2nd place, it will continue in November.

    mg (8cbc69)

  314. the top most charismatic candidates were Reagan

    I saw Reagan in person twice, once as governor and once in the 1984 campaign. He was different in person than in a scripted situation. Not bad-different, just different. Less articulate, more personable. I think you can see this in news conferences where they didn’t overprogram him.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  315. Anyone who believes those things is willfully blind.

    As are those who thought Biden would be better President than Trump

    Horatio (a5ff13)

  316. Trump Lawyer Told Justice Dept. That Classified Material Had Been Returned

    At least one lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump signed a written statement in June asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government, four people with knowledge of the document said.

    The written declaration was made after a visit on June 3 to Mar-a-Lago by Jay I. Bratt, the top counterintelligence official in the Justice Department’s national security division.

    The existence of the signed declaration, which has not previously been reported, is a possible indication that Mr. Trump or his team were not fully forthcoming with federal investigators about the material. And it could help explain why a potential violation of a criminal statute related to obstruction was cited by the department as one basis for seeking the (search) warrant ……..
    ……..
    Mr. Trump said on Friday that he had declassified all the material in his possession while he was still in office. He did not provide any documentation that he had done so.
    ……….

    Trump’s system for declassification.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  317. Based on what has been learned in the past few days, Trump is in more legal danger regarding his possession/ mishandling of classified documents than any connection to January 6th-which is tenuous at best. Whatever he said at the rally was probably protected speech, and unless there is better evidence of his involvement in the false elector scam he will probably walk on that too. His minions will be left holding the bag. But any charges of mishandling classified information are on him alone.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  318. @322/323 ROFLMAOPIP Royalist Rip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8MCsRXXc8A

    DCSCA (2ed7ce)

  319. NYT:

    At least one lawyer for Trump signed a written statement for the Justice Department asserting all docs with classified markings in the boxes had been returned after a June 3 meeting, which could explain why “obstruction” statute was listed on warrant

    It appears that the lawyer. Was that at the behest of the former president? Anyway, no one is above the law, or they shouldn’t be

    Dana (c3eb84)

  320. As are those who thought Biden would be better President than Trump

    Biden IS a better president than Trump. 0.00001 is bigger than 0.0000001

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  321. But any charges of mishandling classified information are on him alone.

    Lawyers making false statements regarding them are also in trouble.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  322. Anyway, no one is above the law, or they shouldn’t be

    Sometimes lawyers are. By law. And who writes the laws?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  323. But any charges of mishandling classified information are on him alone.

    Lawyers making false statements regarding them are also in trouble.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/13/2022 @ 2:34 pm

    As well as John Solomon, Kash Patel, and anyone else Trump allowed to view the documents, and each of those persons becomes a separate count against Trump.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  324. <

    em>Anyone who believes those things is willfully blind.

    As are those who thought Biden would be better President than Trump

    A lot of people voted for Biden not on account of policy, but because he isn’t a psychopathic narcissist he cannot distinguish between what’s right and what serves his own interest.

    Many of the people most critical of Trump are people who worked in the administration and saw how reckless he was, how heedless of law or ethics, how cruel (“Can’t we just shoot them in the legs”?), and how much effort it took by the adults in the room to prevent a disaster.

    His preemptive refusal to accept an election loss as a legitimate result was a good reason not to vote for him. His subsequent efforts to overturn an election – to the point of putting his VP’s life in jeopardy – confirmed that not voting for him was the correct choice, as does his constant, incessant lying about the election and sowing animosity toward American institutions that don’t bend the knee to him.

    This are not the words of a patriot:

    “If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protests we have ever had in Washington, D.C., in New York, in Atlanta and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt,”

    They’re the words of a demagogue trying to incite mob action against anyone who insists that he too must follow the law.

    Trump and his minions have built a novel set of ethics in which Trump should be able do whatever he wants, and anyone who tries to hold him to the law is pronounced “corrupt” or a “traitor” and marked out for violent retribution. This Cult of the Leader is thoroughly inimical to a constitutional republic under the rule of law — but some in MAGA land appear to be unhappy with a Constitution that allows people they disagree with to hold power sometimes, and they’re itching to crash our institutions and try to build new ones they can dominate. Some appear to prefer a despot who will do what that want by any means necessary. That isn’t all down to Trump, but he has emboldened a disregard for fact and law and a contempt for American institutions.

    Radegunda (d85f44)

  325. Another thing: Finding out how criminally reckless Trump has been with sensitive information bearing on national security, and how contemptuous of lawful demands to turn over ALL the material, would disabuse any rational person of the notion that he is a super-patriot who always puts America first. But the MAGA cult runs on a good bit of irrationality.

    Radegunda (d85f44)

  326. Synagogue of judge who approved Trump’s search warrant cancels Shabbat service

    Threats against the Florida judge who signed the warrant allowing the FBI to search former President Donald Trump’s home earlier this week have led the synagogue where he is a member to cancel Friday’s beachfront service.

    U.S. Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart has been the subject of a massive right-wing social media attack after he signed off on a search warrant for Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate Friday (Aug. 5). The judge’s address and other personal information were shared online, and threats on his life were made.

    Reinhart is Jewish and a member of Temple Beth David in Palm Beach Gardens, a Conservative synagogue where he also serves on the board of trustees. ……..
    ……….
    The vitriol against Reinhart is part of an escalation of antisemitic animus propelled by Trump’s fervent supporters. It comes on the fifth anniversary of the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in which mostly white men staged a torch-lit march on the University of Virginia campus shouting “Jews will not replace us.”
    ………..
    One online user on the notorious imageboard 4chan wrote of Reinhart: “That is a k***. And a pedophile … He should be tried for treason and executed.”
    ………..
    On Trump’s Truth Social platform, comments included: “Can we just do this Civil War thing already,” “It’s time to start hunting them in return,” and “Patriots!!! Arm yourselves! We are about to enter into Civil War!”
    …………
    One of the most prominent critics has been retired New York Mets baseball legend Lenny Dykstra, a Trump supporter with 87,000 followers on Twitter. Dykstra took the opportunity to attack Reinhart and his synagogue as insufficiently Jewish.
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  327. “We are about to enter into Civil War!”

    Wait until Tuesday’s skirmish at “Fort Thump-Her’ — when Daughter Darth gets launched into an exhaust port on Daddy Darth’s Death Star. 😉

    DCSCA (2f515f)

  328. A lot of people voted for Biden not on account of policy, but because he isn’t a psychopathic narcissist he cannot distinguish between what’s right and what serves his own interest

    We have a President that had 36 years of experience as a U.S. senator and 8 years as Vice- President. A President that promised to “Build Back Better”, our current President is the epitome of a corrupt career politician! We elected an immoral, unethical freeloader that never had a plan except to live on the public dole, a scoundrel who bends the way the political winds blow who can’t even finish a sentence without losing his train of thought. Not that he ever had an original thought!

    Of course your analysis of Trump being a “psychopathic narcissist” is from your professional experience as a psychologist or psychiatrist who actually had sessions with him. Now if you have either of those credentials please let us know

    Horatio (a5ff13)

  329. @320. I saw Nancy Reagan in a Rockefeller Center eatery giving some kind of award back in the day– a more waxen wench you’ll never meet. She truly looked as if she’d just been wheeled out of Madame Tussauds. Frail— and not healthy at all– and this was back in the early ’90’s.

    DCSCA (2f515f)

  330. ‘Are you better off now than you were four years ago?’

    Nope.

    Trump was a better POTUS than Squinty could ever hope to be.

    DCSCA (2f515f)

  331. A lot of people voted for Biden not on account of policy

    How would you say he is doing on policy? Higher taxes, spending, etc.?

    mikeybates (e35ce7)

  332. The Inflation Reduction Act sure dropped its name quickly.

    There are conservatives who voted for these corrupt clowns.

    Obudman (00547c)

  333. Of course your analysis of Trump being a “psychopathic narcissist” is from your professional experience…….

    Someone who names all his properties after himself isn’t exactly humble.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  334. Since several of you asked, on a policy scale of 1-10, I would give Biden a 3. Trump would have gotten a similar grade on policy, but his attempt to overthrow the presidential election would give him a current grade of about -7. (It would be even lower were he not so incompetent in his attempt.)

    What strikes me — and I am not just being a contrarian — is the similarities between the two, both promising various free lunches, though Trump was promising more pie in the sky with his. At my age, the deficits both gave us won’t bother me much, but they will handicap your children and grandchildren. Trump was better on judges, but worse on foreign policy — and the Supreme Court is probably settled for the next 15 or 20 years. Trump was, and is, much worse on ethics, setting an example that, unfortunately, is being imitated by far too many. (Those who believe that character doesn’t count will not be bothered by that, may even see it as a plus.)

    And, of course, Trump has been much worse on COVID.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  335. Mac Davis wrote a little song about Trump and similar types. It could use a few changes in the words to compeltely fit Trump, but the basic idea is there.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  336. Sorry about my link-close mistake.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  337. @336 The people who voted for biden are better off today because trump and the maggots are no longer in power. Also for the democrat establishment and donor class biden: “I beat the socialists!” But just for the time being.

    asset (1739f3)

  338. Aw, fer …

    Biden was born working class and he had to find a way to feed his family. Senator and Vice-President are not bad jobs.

    If Trump had not been born to a rich daddy, he’d be a bingo caller in Atlantic City. As it was, his job was to spend daddy’s money and be in court a lot, bankruptcy and otherwise, when he tried to make some on his own.

    nk (5084f0)

  339. I’m sorry, Dana, but you picked a bad time to ban troll bashing. It’s times like this, when Trump is in trouble, that they swarm the internets to promote the faith, praise the prophet, and smite the unbeliever.

    nk (5084f0)

  340. nk, it gets tiring. The moderators are saints.

    Simon Jester (8a01f1)

  341. Is this the 17th attempted burial of Trump?
    Book him on the removal of sofa tags.

    mg (8cbc69)

  342. It’s Fred Trump, not Donald, who is to blame for January 6. He did not put a second term for Donnie in the family trust.

    nk (5084f0)

  343. And, of course, Trump has been much worse on COVID.

    Pfft. Operation Warp Speed:

    On May 15, 2020, President Donald Trump officially announced the public-private partnership. The purpose of Operation Warp Speed was to coordinate Health and Human Services-wide efforts, including the NIH ACTIV partnership for vaccine and therapeutic development, the NIH RADx initiative for diagnostic development, and work by BARDA.

    Operation Warp Speed was formed to encourage private and public partnerships to enable faster approval and production of vaccines during the COVID-19 pandemic…. The FDA announced on June 30, 2020, that a vaccine would need to be at least 50% effective for diminishing the severity of COVID-19 symptoms to obtain regulatory and marketing approval… As of August 2020, eight companies were chosen for funding of some $11 billion to expedite development and preparation for manufacturing their respective vaccine candidates.- wikigovernmentarmpricks.gov

    DCSCA (d83c9a)

  344. Smelly, too, Simon.

    nk (5084f0)

  345. @339 No one who runs for POTUS is humble. It’s not a process that rewards humility. It does reward narcissistic sociopaths.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  346. No one who runs for POTUS is humble. It’s not a process that rewards humility. It does reward narcissistic sociopaths.

    Hmmm. Reagan ran for POTUS.

    Four times.

    DCSCA (d83c9a)

  347. This movie could’ve been introduced by Leonard Pinth Garnell in a “Bad Cinema” SNL skit.

    A 1990 Pakistani film depicted Salman Rushdie as a satanic agent of Jews and Hindus out to destroy Islam. He’s so evil that he has to be killed by flying Korans. The British refused to certify the film. Rushdie intervened and got the film cleared.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  348. Trump was naming everything after himself decades before he considered running for President. His narcissism is a way of life.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  349. @357. Trump was naming everything after himself decades before he considered running for President. His narcissism is a way of life.

    Guess you’ve never heard of Walt Disney.

    “Why would I want to be President of the United States when I’m already king of Disneyland.” – Walt Disney

    DCSCA (d83c9a)

  350. …[to] promote the faith, praise the prophet, and smite the unbeliever…

    Reaganoptics; Reaganaurics; Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (d83c9a)

  351. CBS also confirmed that Trump lawyers submitted a signed declaration that “any problematic materials/documents in Florida were accounted for and, if necessary, returned to the U.S. gov’t.”

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  352. @345. Biden was born working class and he had to find a way to feed his family. Senator and Vice-President are not bad jobs.

    Yes, Scranton’s Squinty has held a government job all his adult life. All successful people in Mayberry did, too. The nutty losers who paid their salaries ran the gas station, the fix-it shop, the barber shop, played the town drunk, worked in the diner or operated the switchboard.

    DCSCA (d83c9a)

  353. Smelly is the definition of a lawyer.

    mg (8cbc69)

  354. Given our host is a lawyer, mg, I strongly suggest you retract your insult and refrain from such insults in the future.

    Dana (86b58c)

  355. The Fifth Amendment tables could turn on Trump

    This week…….former President Donald Trump was deposed in an investigation by the New York Attorney General’s office. There he apparently didn’t say much other than that he was asserting his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. …….

    ……..The Fifth Amendment allows you, me and Trump to refuse to answer questions if there is a genuine risk that we could face criminal prosecution based on what we say. But, and this is a big one, the Fifth Amendment does not protect us from a jury in a federal civil case judging us for staying silent and invoking our Fifth Amendment rights.

    The jury could be allowed to consider whether Trump asserted his right against self-incrimination because he has something to hide. Specifically, the jury could consider why Trump thinks he might face criminal prosecution for answering specific questions about his businesses’ practices and whether he signed off on fraudulent financial documents.
    ……….
    ………. In 1976, the Supreme Court concluded that “the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” (Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308). (Note that there are legal limits to when and how this negative inference can be made.)
    ……..
    ………

    My priority order of Trump legal threats (in order of seriousness:

    1) Classified documents at MAL (medium to high chance of indictment, serious jail time)
    2) Georgia election investigation (toss up)
    3) NY AG investigation (60-40 chance of civil action)
    4) January 6th investigation (the DOJ may have the evidence, but they won’t indict (he may be an unindicted co-conspirator)

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  356. The truth must hurt

    mg (8cbc69)

  357. @363 Does that include lawyer jokes? Lawyer jokes are some of the best.

    frosty (b6a3ab)

  358. Lawyers are the problem, Dana.

    mg (8cbc69)

  359. They stink on ice as a matter of fact.

    mg (8cbc69)

  360. Get rid of me, Dana. Man up and pull the flucking plug.

    [Why you had to press this issue, mg, I will never know, but your wish is granted. – JVW]

    mg (8cbc69)

  361. lmao at how impotent this site is.

    mg (8cbc69)

  362. Hey, I voted for a candidate who was neither a socialist, nor a grasping narcissist. But none of you did. If everyone who voted for Biden because they couldn’t stand Trump had voted for Jo whatsername, we’d be in some other mess!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  363. All sorts of folks are getting fooled by this video, but I wouldn’t take it down because it makes a point.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  364. Does that include lawyer jokes? Lawyer jokes are some of the best.

    There are only three lawyer jokes, frosty. All the other stories are true.

    nk (5084f0)

  365. I imagine 81 million folks would get fooled by such an obvious fake.

    BuDuh (38a410)

  366. Here’s a photo of one of the documents the FBI took from MAL. Declassified!

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  367. Russia now controls 12.4 TRILLION in Ukrainian energy assets
    https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/russia-seizure-ukraine-energy-metals-oil-gas-coal-deposits-secdev-2022-8
    Of course they need to fight this robbery

    steveg (15f7ca)

  368. Paul
    #375

    Do you really think Trump would go to that much effort?

    steveg (15f7ca)

  369. Russia now controls 12.4 TRILLION in Ukrainian energy assets

    Does Hunter still get his cut in rubles— or kicked back dollars as the U.S. is financing Ukrainian gov’t ops- salaries and such. Golly- and their healthcare plans, too??!! 😉

    DCSCA (c41b57)

  370. Rushdie was only the latest.

    •July 28: Man with loaded AK-47 arrested at NY home of Masih Alinejad, critic of Iran regime

    •Aug 10: US reveals Iran regime tried to assassinate former National Security Advisor John Bolton

    •Aug 12: Salman Rushdie, condemned to death by Iran’s leaders, stabbed in New York

    • Twitter allows this Ayatollah to still tweet incitement to hatred and murder

    • Ayatollah’s regime was elected to U.N. Women’s Rights Commission

    • Our Western governments continue to push a nuclear deal with this regime that will hand the murderers billions of dollars

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  371. Daring the bloggers to ban you is a quick step to going into moderation. We’ll see if our host wants to make this permanent.

    mg, I strongly suggest you get a good night’s sleep and consider whether you want to continue down this path. I think having voices like yours is good for the blog, but testing Dana’s patience isn’t the way to get along here.

    JVW (020d31)

  372. Do you really think Trump would go to that much effort?

    With hurricane maps, maybe.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  373. This is clearly true of Trumpists; it’s very important to many of them to pwn the libs, and so the fact that people on the left really dislike someone is a *bonus* to them.

    I think it’s less true of the left; most people I know don’t *care* what conservatives think, and so aren’t particularly animated by a desire to anger or irritate conservatives.

    The one exception I think is support for Newsom’s anti-gun law that copies the horrible TX anti-abortion law’s more problematic features — but even that isn’t driven by a desire to stick it to the magats, it’s driven by a desire to force the supreme court to wrestle with a contradiction in their legal theory which my friends hope will force them to change their mind on the tx law.

    aphrael (954d17) — 8/13/2022 @ 10:41 am

    Aphrael,

    I realize you’re just defending the left, but you cannot believe this is true. The left always calls the Republican candidate “the worst ever” and said even milk toast candidates like Romney and Ryan were going to throw grandma off a cliff. They think any restrictions on abortion are tantamount to fiction and an establishment of Christian theocracy. And that ignores calling their opponents nazis and going through their “punch a nazi” campaign.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  374. Biden IS a better president than Trump. 0.00001 is bigger than 0.0000001

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/13/2022 @ 2:33 pm

    No. Policy matters more than personality. And Biden’s personality sucks too.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  375. DRJ and Aaron used to post lawyer jokes….

    Funny how Patriotic true Americans here are vilified, insulted, called cultist for believing in equal rights for all, religious freedom, America first etc, wanting a strong economy and good jobs for everyone, low crime everywhere.

    While a handful of people from Dailykos play with your feeds ruining any discussion, spamming even discussions of non political topics.

    EPWJ (af863d)

  376. The division of Americans into “true Americans” and some other group is per se unAmerican, in the mind of this American who believes in equal rights for all, religious freedom, good jobs for everyone, a strong economy, and low crime.

    The insinuation that your political opponents don’t want those things is obscene.

    aphrael (954d17)

  377. NJrob

    Bush McHitler. Cocaine George, and remember they tried to raid his fathers presidential papers saying he was getting bribes from the Kuwaities over the donations to his Library at A&M. Then they tried to put Bush Jr on trial for the enhanced torture after his presidency was over and they tried to get a warrant to raid his offices and were denied.

    Reagan was also investigated post presidency for a 2 million dollar speaking fee from Japan and S. Korea. They also were denied a warrant to raid his ranch.

    Oh how people forget

    EPWJ (af863d)

  378. DRJ is a lawyer, so presumably gets more leeway when it comes to lawyer joking.

    But when the host, or the host’s agent, ask you to withdraw a statement and apologize, you do that, or you withdraw from the hosted space. That’s badic politeness to a host.

    aphrael (954d17)

  379. aphrael

    There are true Americans, thats not news to anyone, and its true you want misery and harm – and are actively working for it.

    There are only 2 sides – pick one.

    EPWJ (af863d)

  380. aphrael,

    no insult was made to the host, you’re just stirring because you realize that well these discussions have gone off the rails and somehow you ended up arguing against America and for repressive socialism.

    So weird the sides you are taking, think about it… Every politician believes in MAGA and that doesnt belong to Trump but to all of us.

    EPWJ (af863d)

  381. #382
    Paul
    I’m guessing exception rather than rule.
    Yes I support Trump vs. Harris/Biden but think Trump is exceptionally lazy and too cheap to outsource

    steveg (ef91fb)

  382. Says all I need to say about what I think of Harris/Biden

    steveg (ef91fb)

  383. Earth to mg; Earth to mg:

    As Charlie Duke radioed to Buzz and Neil:

    ‘Throttle down! Throttle down.’

    DCSCA (f32f83)

  384. @394. Well, as Hmume told it, when Biden asked him back in his ABC days why Hume didn’t quote him more often- Hume cut to the chase to his face: ‘Because you’re a windbag.’ All Joe could do was laugh, said Brit. But it’s the truth.

    DCSCA (f32f83)

  385. There are true Americans, thats not news to anyone, and its true you want misery and harm – and are actively working for it.

    There are only 2 sides – pick one.

    There is a way to make a coherent and intriguing argument. This ain’t it. Honestly, the level of discourse around here has fallen so severely that it is pathetic. If you want to argue that the things aphrael supports have undersides or hidden consequences that work against the betterment of society which he seeks, then make that argument. But when you simply claim that he is working to undermine America then you just make the same inarticulate and reductive arguments that people like Donald Trump and Joe Biden built their political careers upon. It’s unworthy of intelligent discourse.

    JVW (020d31)

  386. Well, as Hmume told it, when Biden asked him back in his ABC days why Hume didn’t quote him more often- Hume cut to the chase to his face: ‘Because you’re a windbag.’

    I still love Karl Rove’s assessment of Biden: “He has that combination of longevity and long-windedness which passes for wisdom in today’s Washington.” [Quoting from memory, but I think I got it mostly right.]

    JVW (020d31)

  387. I don’t care about the lawyer jokes, but when someone is waving their arms and shouting “look at me! I am an asshole! Ban me!” they are going to get their wish.

    Thanks for taking care of it, JVW. Goodbye forever, mg.

    Patterico (9bc0a4)

  388. EPWJ, you need to settle down or you are next. There are two sides: the side of civility, and everything else. Pick one.

    Patterico (9bc0a4)

  389. Yes I support Trump vs. Harris/Biden but think Trump is exceptionally lazy and too cheap to outsource

    No argument. I couldn’t vote for either one.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  390. EPWJ, it says lot that you are unable or unwilling to extend to me the same courtesy I gave extended to conservatives I talk to online for more than a quarter century.

    You and I think the path to a happy, prosperous, free America is different, in part I suspect because our micro level focus is on different harms experienced by different people.

    But the allegation that I want misery and harm is absurd.

    aphrael (954d17)

  391. @396. Honestly, the level of discourse around here has fallen so severely that it is pathetic.

    JVW, just an observation from an aging DCSCA, but it sort of reflects the discourse we’re enduring in our reality these days doesn’t it; a recession isn’t a recession; a raid isn’t a raid, a man isn’t a man; a woman not a woman; 87,000 IRS agents are good for you because they’ll answer phones; Kabul won’t be Saigon redux; the virus will be stopped cold; inflation is transitory… and last month, zero. The Orwellian headaches are becoming comical:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOHMg7IkzHU&t=2s

    DCSCA (15a16c)

  392. @397. LOLOLOLOL and it’s true, too.

    If it was 1987, he could still likely get away with it. But not this deep into the wiz-bang interweb 21st century. Always reminds me of that Abbott & Costello bit:

    LOU: ‘Hey Abbott! What makes a balloon go up?’
    BUD: ‘Hot air.’
    LOU: ‘What’s holding you down?’

    😉

    DCSCA (15a16c)

  393. it’s driven by a desire to force the supreme court to wrestle with a contradiction in their legal theory which my friends hope will force them to change their mind on the tx law.

    While I agree with you on the terrible, no good, Klanish TX law, the Court could find an obvious difference — the 2nd Amendment versus a judge-created/judge-uncreated right.

    BTW, as I have expressed, I think judge-created law is unconstitutional since it neither originated in the legislature not was presented to the executive. They can strike down laws, but they cannot erect laws in their place.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  394. Trump is exceptionally lazy and too cheap to outsource

    Really?

    Trump branded merch were mostly outsourced (except the steaks). Even the Trump Vodka was imported.

    You don’t become rich by manufacturing at full price.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  395. There are only 2 sides – pick one.

    “It’s a pity they can’t both lose”

    –Henry Kissinger

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  396. RIP Paul Coker (93), cartoonist at Mad Magazine for 60 years.

    Mr. Coker collaborated with the writer Phil Hahn, and later with others, for over 50 years to produce the recurring feature “Horrifying Clichés,” which mocked overused phrases by illustrating them with monsters and other creatures.

    The drawing for “Curbing a voracious appetite” showed a man in a black coat walking a gigantic monster on a leash to do his necessary business. “Escaping the doldrums” depicted a frightened man running from a family of monsters, presumably named the Doldrums, who stand in a castle doorway. For “Lodging a complaint,” an innkeeper showed a dungeonlike room to a compliant monster who carries a suitcase covered with stickers showing his previous travels.

    “What a great way to earn a living!” Mr. Coker wrote in the introduction to “The Mad Monster Book of Horrifying Clichés” (2002)

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  397. What is the difference between a holocaust denier and a trump election denier. Election deniers only hate liberal democrat jews.

    asset (cc5301)

  398. In Tribute: mg/MTG 2024!

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  399. aphrael,

    Its terrible to want hardship pain and misery on people which is what’s happening now. The people you support are causing this.

    Trumps only crime is giving America a glimpse of a great economy and strong leadership. Giving the poor a living wage – how dare he!

    You are a democrat correct? Your side tried everyday to Impeach Reagan.

    Your side tried Reagan officials on minor charges after he left office.

    Democrats tried to put Reagan in jail for accepting speaking fees after he left office

    Democrats attempted to put Bush Sr. in prison for the Kuwaiti money donated to build his library.

    Your side attempted to put Bush Jr in jail over waterboarding after he left office

    Spare me the indignation, there’s lots to criticize Trump about, but, to put in jail or rewrite history? Not so much.

    EPWJ (af863d)

  400. I better buy that ⏰ or a 🐓 now. Impeccable timing since Im back out of the field for 8:00ams at the office all this coming week.

    urbanleftbehind (0b734c)

  401. Asset at #408…imagine if it’s revealed Jared was the so-called Mole.

    urbanleftbehind (0b734c)

  402. Trumps only crime is giving America a glimpse of a great economy

    Dior’s

    and strong leadership.

    Xi Jinping’s.

    nk (71d186)

  403. Comey’s unwise decision to not prosecute Hillary set a terrible precedent. Mea culpa for the long excerpt, but it’s relevant, IMO.

    The real problem, however–the problem that implicated 18 U.S.C. Section 793–was that a number of the emails contained highly-classified information. As Comey noted, seven email chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending emails about those matters and receiving emails from others about the same matters.”

    Comey also said that “any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation.”

    (This is one reason why the “but her emails” mantra from online progressives is so grating. What she did was serious, and pretending it wasn’t insults our intelligence.)

    So why didn’t the FBI recommend charges? Here’s the key paragraph:

    In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

    I did not agree with this decision, and I said so in National Review and the New York Times. The problem is that Comey added elements to the statute. He essentially read “gross negligence” as a synonym for willfulness and added additional factors (such as obstruction of justice) to the prosecution decision.

    If I had engaged in similar conduct when I was in the military, I would not have enjoyed the same level of deference. I would have been prosecuted, and I would have deserved prosecution.

    But we can’t rewind the clock. We can only decide how to go forward. And so the DOJ should go forward with the same rule it applied to Hillary Clinton, including the same level of deference. Any other result wouldn’t simply be unjust—insofar as it would refuse to treat similarly-situated people similarly—it would be profoundly destabilizing. There cannot be one set of standards for Democrats and another for Republicans.

    Would applying this same standard mean Trump, too, should not face prosecution? Well, not necessarily. We can’t yet conclude that Trump and Clinton’s misconduct is equivalent, and the reason why may relate not to the mishandling of defense information, but rather to obstruction of justice.

    The available reporting indicates that Trump didn’t simply remove clearly marked classified material from the White House, he also retained much of that material in spite of repeated requests that it be returned, retained some of that material in defiance of a subpoena, and then ultimately treated the material as his personal property. Here’s Maggie Haberman, Glenn Thrush, and Charlie Savage, writing in the New York Times:

    It is not clear why Mr. Trump apparently chose to hang onto materials that would ignite another legal firestorm around him. But last year, he told close associates that he regarded some presidential documents as his own personal property. When speaking about his friendly correspondence with the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, Mr. Trump said, “They’re mine,” according to a person familiar with the exchange.

    Moreover, there’s additional reporting that Trump’s team may have misled the DOJ. Yesterday morning, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush reported that a “lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump signed a written statement in June asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government.”

    This misstatement could help explain why the Trump search warrant stated that it was seeking evidence of items “illegally possessed” in violation of both 18 U.S.C. Section 1519 and 18 U.S.C. Section 2071. Section 2071 prohibits removal, concealment, or destruction of federal records generally, while Section 1519 is an obstruction of justice statute. It imposes up to 20 years of imprisonment for any person who:

    knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case.

    In fact, the listing of Section 1519 on the warrant reminds me of the old adage: It’s not the crime; it’s the cover-up.

    Trump lacks any real excuse for his behavior for retaining classified information, but Clinton had no excuse either. Remember, she used a private server to discuss matters that were classified at the highest levels, and she was seasoned enough to know exactly what she was doing.

    Trump’s defense is as weak as Hillary’s. His team is reportedly claiming that he had a “standing order” to declassify all documents that he took to Mar-a-Lago, but as Philip Klein notes in National Review, this argument is “patently absurd”:

    Consider all the times that Trump was at Mar-a-Lago during his presidency and worked out of there. Are we to believe that each and every document he brought with him there, no matter how sensitive, was immediately declassified and thus widely available for people to see?

    Moreover, where is the documentary evidence for such an order? Declassification isn’t a mere mental process. So far there is more concrete evidence that Michael Scott declared bankruptcy than there is that Donald Trump declassified the top secret documents he held at Mar-a-Lago.

    If Trump went beyond Clinton in his effort to conceal and cover up his misdeeds, including defying a subpoena and falsely asserting he’d turned over all the classified information in his possession, then he may face criminal consequences for obstruction even if his initial misconduct wasn’t materially different from Clinton’s.

    The bottom line is deeply disheartening. Two of the most powerful and prominent politicians in the United States engaged in conduct that virtually any other American would be prosecuted for. They have placed the system under great strain, and the system is buckling.

    It remains to be seen whether Donald Trump’s conduct was so much worse than Hillary Clinton’s that prosecution is both legal and just. Indeed the entire issue may be so fraught with peril that the DOJ may decide to merely seize the documents without any further legal proceedings.

    But if Trump did break the law and is not prosecuted, we can look back at a pivotal moment in history and know why. On July 5, 2016, the FBI set an extraordinary standard for prosecuting powerful people for mishandling our nation’s most precious secrets, and we shouldn’t change that standard for Donald Trump.

    I can’t disagree with French,and I’m a big fan of there being one standard. Comey’s decision on Hillary is going to bite Garland in the butt.

    Like with Hillary’s malfeasance, Trump’s malfeasance is serious. I’ve also said that Garland must’ve had good reason to take the unprecedented step of making a warranted search of an ex-president’s residence, and it looks like unfolding events have borne that out. It’s just not a good idea to lie to the feds, especially in a signed declaration, that you gave back all relevant classified documents yet still kept a number of them tucked away somewhere in a country club.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  404. Man crashed into barrier near Capitol and opened fire before shooting himself, police say
    ……….
    The man crashed into the barrier on the east side of the Capitol just after 4 a.m. Sunday morning, and his car went up in flames as he was getting out, U.S. Capitol Police said in a statement. The man fired several shots into the air and turned the gun on himself as officers responded. No one else was hurt.

    “At this time, it does not appear the man was targeting any Members of Congress, who are on recess, and it does not appear officers fired their weapons,” Capitol Police said. The statement did not name the man, but noted that “investigators are looking into the man’s background.”
    ……….

    Sad.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  405. JVW: “Honestly, the level of discourse around here has fallen so severely that it is pathetic. If you want to argue that the things aphrael supports have undersides or hidden consequences that work against the betterment of society which he seeks, then make that argument.”

    Amen

    EPWJ: “Trumps only crime is giving America a glimpse of a great economy and strong leadership. Giving the poor a living wage – how dare he! …Democrats tried to put Reagan in jail for accepting speaking fees after he left office”

    WTF?! It’s hard to know if this is performative sarcasm, a deliberate eye poke at JVW, chronic intoxication, or just diminished critical reasoning induced by hyper-partisanship. I suppose like mg, it’s just the equivant of self immolation….and the downside of free posting. People just don’t value free things….

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  406. I was fifteen when Reagan left office, EPWJ. You can hold me responsible for the actions of the Democrats of the day, because I was absolutely the prodigal teenager pulling the strings.

    Or you can engage with me and not some straw aphrael you’ve constructed in your head from the biases you have accepted over the years.

    aphrael (954d17)

  407. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/14/2022 @ 8:16 am

    To lie usually involves intent. Granted the definition has become flexible as has the definition of intent.

    frosty (ce1fae)

  408. As Deborah Birx fought the COVID pandemic, trying to keep more Americans alive, she had times when she was discouraged, and she says in “Silent Invasion” that when she was at a low point, she would often get a call from Condoleezza Rice:

    Though she seemed to have a sixth sense about when to call, she never cited those low points as her reason for reaching out. Instead she’d ask me about an issue related to PEPFAR–among her many ongoing commitments was her passionate belief in the importance of HIV/AIDS programs. Sometimes she would call to ask about global vaccination programs or other public health issues, like malaria.
    . . .
    She was more like a coach [than a cheerleader], reminding me I’d done good work in the past, that I had navigated difficult times, and that, in the end, it would all be worth it because of the lives we had saved.

    Deborah Birx

    I have not quite finished “Silent Invasion”, but have read enough to recommend it to most of you for its account of our failures — and our successes — in fighting COVID.

    Incidentally, I think the military title of her book is appropriate, not just because she is a retired Army colonel, but because it reminds us our losses from our ancient microbial enemies, and tells us that we need the right strategies against them.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  409. What Trump has said before about sharing classified information
    ……….
    If the (FBI’s) investigation is proven true, Trump’s holding onto presidential documents would mean he engaged in acts similar to that of his 2016 Democratic rival Hillary Clinton when she was under the agency’s probes for using a private email server as the secretary of state. He repeatedly called for investigations into her emails.
    ……….
    Here are a number of Trump’s past public statements about the handling of classified information…….
    ……….
    Aug. 16, 2016: ……..”In my administration, I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information…….”

    Aug. 18, 2016:……….”On political corruption, we are going to restore honor to our government. In my administration, I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.”

    Sept. 7, 2016: ………”One of the first things we must do is to enforce all classification rules and to enforce all laws relating to the handling of classified information.”

    Sept. 19, 2016:………. “We also need the best protection of classified information. That is the worst situation. Hillary’s private email scandal, which put our classified information in the reach of our enemies, disqualifies her from the presidency. Totally.”
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  410. Miller, what was the global warming book you recommended…it was written by a journalist I believe…and had surprising conclusions from someone from the left?

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  411. Worth reading: Bari Weiss on the attacks on Salman Rushdie (and others).

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  412. If you know any former cast members of Another World please pray they don’t become the 3rd of 3 -or does Anne Heche count for 2 since she played a set of twins on that show?

    https://deadline.com/2022/08/robyn-griggs-dead-another-world-soap-star-film-actress-was-49-obituary-1235091825/

    urbanleftbehind (0b734c)

  413. To lie usually involves intent. Granted the definition has become flexible as has the definition of intent.

    The issue with Hillary is that Comey invented “intent” out of thin air. The statute had no requirement of finding specific intent. The mere holding of that classified intel on her home-brewed server should have been enough to recommend prosecution, and now the precedent is set.

    This is straying into a hypothetical, and I don’t like doing it, but if Hillary were prosecuted and therefore had to withdraw, I think replacement nominee Tim Kaine might’ve had a better shot, given Hillary’s high negatives. Comey’s decision (and talking about that decision in a public statement) was one of those pivotal moments in American history, and it only helped usher an amoral con man into the oval office.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  414. #421 AJ_Liberty – Probably Michael Shellenberger’s “Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All”.

    Incidentally, he wrote a later book on San Francisco, and finished a distant fourth in the California gubernatorial primary.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  415. Trumps only crime is giving America a glimpse of a great economy

    Dustin (a87c64)

  416. 🤔

    Dustin (a87c64)

  417. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/13/jury-finds-democrat-super-pac-defamed-roy-moore-awards-him-8-2-million-damages/

    Congratulations Judge Roy Moore. It doesn’t unring the bell or make up for the lies that cost him an election, but at least some level of justice was served.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  418. Congressional delegation visits Taiwan less than two weeks after Pelosi trip sparked furious response from China

    A congressional delegation led by Sen. Ed Markey, D-Mass., landed in Taiwan Sunday, less than two weeks after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s visit to the Beijing-claimed island drew a furious response from China.

    The five-member delegation also includes Rep. John Garamendi, D-Calif., Rep. Alan Lowenthal, D-Calif., Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va., Rep. Amata Coleman Radewagen, R-American Samoa, the American Institute in Taiwan said in a statement on Sunday.

    They will meet senior Taiwanese leaders to discuss security, trade, supply chains and other issues, the statement said.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  419. The WA Post piece on Moore holds water to this day, and it well demonstrated that this man in his early 30s had a creepy attraction to minor-aged girls.
    How a Democrat PAC distorted that reporting is on them.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  420. NJRob,

    > The left always calls the Republican candidate “the worst ever” and said even milk toast candidates like Romney and Ryan were going to throw grandma off a cliff. They think any restrictions on abortion are tantamount to fiction and an establishment of Christian theocracy. And that ignores calling their opponents nazis and going through their “punch a nazi” campaign.

    You and I are talking about different things. The left disagrees with Republicans on policy, absolutely. Democrats exaggerate the positions of moderate Republicans in order to scare moderates into voting for Democrats. Absolutely. People on the left call Republicans names, yes.

    But what the left doesn’t generally do is elect candidates whose only goal is to say mean things about Republicans *in order to get a reaction out of the Republicans*. We’re not electing *trolls* for the purpose of sticking a thumb in the eye of conservatives — but if you go out into trumpist message boards online, that’s *exactly* what a lot of Trumpists are gleefully relishing.

    I understand that it’s a difference that’s hard to see without listening to how people describe their own motivations, and for sure I agree that it doesn’t apply to all trumpists. But i’ve yet to find a trumpist space online where it isn’t a big part of the discussion, and i’ve *never* encountered an equivalent in the liberal, socialist, or anarchist places i frequent.

    aphrael (954d17)

  421. Jim Miller, it’s a shame that so many of the candidates in that primary were so terrible. Newsom is going to crush Dahle, and it would be nice to have a choice between two candidates who actually stand a chance.

    aphrael (954d17)

  422. https://calmatters.org/commentary/2022/08/does-university-of-california-undercut-academic-freedom/

    Administrations and faculties at University of California campuses are embroiled in a searing controversy over requirements that applicants for faculty positions and candidates for promotion prove their active support, without reservation, of what’s called “diversity, equity and inclusion.”

    Candidates must submit “DEI statements” that, under UC’s policies, determine whether they will be considered for employment or promotions, regardless of their academic credentials.

    While different campuses use slightly different “rubrics” for judging candidates on their DEI statements, they generally use a 1-to-5 scale to determine whether they should be allowed to advance.

    One, at UC-Davis, provides the lowest score to candidates who seem to be unaware or uninterested in the need to promote diversity, while the highest score would be given to someone who “discusses diversity, equity, and inclusion as core values that every
    faculty member should actively contribute to advancing.”

    Another version, according to a recent history of UC’s Advancing Faculty Diversity Initiative, establishes a 1-to-5 scoring system to judge whether the applicant should be rejected out of hand or allowed to advance. If he or she refuses to discuss gender or ethnicity issues, or contends that such issues are “antithetical to academic freedom or the university’s research mission,” they will automatically receive a low score. In contrast, someone who embraces DEI as “core values that every faculty member should actively contribute to advancing” should get the highest score.

    California indoctrination centers requiring loyalty oaths reminiscent of Mao’s Red Guard.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  423. But what the left doesn’t generally do is elect candidates whose only goal is to say mean things about Republicans *in order to get a reaction out of the Republicans*

    Harry Reid lied about Romney paying his taxes and then bragged about it afterwards. They’ve called Republicans racists and fascists, and have claimed since LBJ that Republicans are going to cause a global nuclear holocaust.

    That’s not simple “exaggeration.” It’s deliberately designed to “get a reaction out of the Republicans.”

    The left is just bothered because their own repressive tolerance is being given right back to them.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  424. Aphrael,

    you clearly see things differently than I or other conservatives do. You think the squad and their incendiary talk about the right isn’t what you say? You don’t think Maxine Watters talk isn’t what you say? You don’t think Obama saying he doesn’t look like the other presidents or telling his opponents to go to the back of the bus isn’t exactly what you say? It’s about dividing and conquering.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  425. aphrael, Democrat hands aren’t clean here. “Bushitler” didn’t just appear out of nowhere, and it took an ex-Democrat like Trump to amp it up even further. Having seen the demagoguery since Kennedy smeared Bork, both political parties share responsibility, and it’s pointless to claim, “yeah, but they’re worse”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  426. Oops, comment in moderation. Was it “Bush-tler”?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  427. Administrations and faculties at University of California campuses are embroiled in a searing controversy over requirements that applicants for faculty positions and candidates for promotion prove their active support, without reservation, of what’s called “diversity, equity and inclusion.”

    “Liberating tolerance, then, would mean intolerance against movements from the Right and toleration of movements from the Left. As to the scope of this tolerance and intolerance: … it would extend to the stage of action as well as of discussion and propaganda, of deed as well as of word.”

    This is the core of their belief system, and it’s why pointing the finger at them about “hypocrisy” is an utterly pointless endeavor. The double standard is baked into the foundation of how they think and act; these are people who have a positive, unironic view of their belief system as a virus. Very little coming out of academia can be taken in good faith anymore, as it’s mostly in the service of advancing this dumb marxist quasi-religion of theirs, especially in the humanities and social science disciplines. Rather than try to convince them that these actions are contradictory–which is the whole point of why they practice it–the only avenue left is to shove that double standard down their throat until they choke on it. And when they squeal about it, tell them that this is the world they wanted; if they don’t like it, they can drop the double standard.

    Going forward, in order to nerf the influence of these institutions, would be making the possession of a college degree as a requirement for employment a heavily fineable offense under the Commerce Clause (which means the “education” section of applications is eliminated entirely, and regular audits of application packages are conducted to ensure HR departments and management are following the rules and not taking in college transcripts on the sly), as well as eliminating it at the federal level. The next thing to do would be to deny colleges any government funding for new facilities or infrastructure unless they keep annual tuition increases below 50% the rate of inflation or 3%, whichever is lower–and no “effective increase” word games, either. Concurrently, restore student loan debt to fall under regular bankruptcy laws, with the clause that if a college has a four-year graduation rate of less than 60%, for every percentage point below that, 1% will be extracted from their endowments to pay for programs to bring that rate up.

    On the back end, incentivize businesses to go back to the entry-level OJT and qualification model of employment through generous tax breaks to pay for pre-employment testing and in-house training, as opposed to sloughing that off on to the colleges like they’ve done for the last 50 years.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  428. 104. I don’t even understand what it means when they say they took from Trump Roger Stone’s grant of clemency. And nobody in the media has bothered to speculate. What is this, the one and original autographed archival copy???

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  429. Wisconsin GOP fires election investigator who pushed false fraud claims
    ……….
    The firing came a week after Michael Gableman, who had led the investigation, joined former president Donald Trump in turning against Speaker Robin Vos amid the veteran Wisconsin politician’s effort to fend off a primary challenge from the right.

    The haphazard, year-old inquiry was marked by meetings with conspiracy theorists, violations of the state’s public records laws and a call by Gableman to explore the legally impossible task of decertifying the election results. It did not uncover evidence of widespread fraud, though Trump and Gableman tried to suggest otherwise.
    ………..
    ………Last week, Trump and Gableman endorsed the longtime speaker’s Republican primary opponent, with the former president holding a rally urging voters to throw out Vos.

    Vos won Tuesday’s primary against Adam Steen, but just barely, claiming 51 percent of the vote. Steen had called for decertifying the election and labeled Vos, one of the most powerful Republicans in Wisconsin, a traitor.
    ………
    As he pursued his review, Gableman claimed to be acting in a nonpartisan manner while attending Republican Party events and calling for the resignation of a Republican state senator who had lambasted his review as a charade. …….
    ……….
    Gableman in March issued a report calling on lawmakers to consider revoking the state’s 10 electoral votes for Joe Biden, who beat Trump in Wisconsin by about 21,000 votes. Vos had long opposed that idea because election experts — including Gableman’s own attorney, James Bopp Jr. — have found there is no way to legally perform that task.

    Gableman acknowledged his suggestion was a “practical impossibility” two weeks later in a private memo to Vos that came to light this month.
    ………
    Gableman went further in a Monday appearance on former Trump adviser Stephen K. Bannon’s podcast, contending Vos had a role in stealing the 2020 election. (Recounts and court rulings in Wisconsin have confirmed Biden’s win and independent reviews have found no signs of significant voter fraud.)
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  430. > Harry Reid lied about Romney paying his taxes and then bragged about it afterwards

what’s your evidence that this was done to get a reaction out of republicans and not for the purposes of promoting in-group bonding and/or misleading people who aren’t paying attention?

    > They’ve called Republicans racists and fascists, and have claimed since LBJ that Republicans are going to cause a global nuclear holocaust.

Again, what’s the evidence that the *specific purpose* is to get a reaction out of Republicans? It’s obvious that it *does* get a reaction out of Republicans, but the goal is to rally Democrats and scare moderates.

That’s true for a lot of conservatives. I’m pretty sure that what MJG is up to is all about in-group signalling and rallying certain kinds of conservatives, for example.

But there’s a significant element of the online Trumpets movement that is *openly* and *explicitly* about getting a reaction out of liberals, and (a) that’s a relatively new development that isn’t matched in other political movements and (b) is really dangerous and harmful to our society.

——

    Back in the early 00s, after the online anarchist movement kinda collapsed in the wake of the Seattle riots, certain online communities started to be filled with something new: nihilists who believed in nothing and cared about nothing except getting reactions out of people. The more people they could shock, outrage, or anger, the better; it was funny, and it was cool, and it showed that you were good at something and successful at something, and getting reactions out of people was a way to win points with your peers. I had ties into some of those communities, then, and a community I was responsible for moderating was eventually destroyed by this subculture.

This subculture got heavily politicized during the Obama years. They were mostly OWS types, at first, but the treatment of Snowden outraged this subculture, and the intersection with Gamergate brought them in close contact with young conservative activists. The young conservative activist culture and the nihilist troll culture intermingled to prroduce an online conservative activist culture imbued with the desire to produce outraged reactions and to hurt the feelings of the libs — and that spread throughout the online Trumpist movement like a miasma.

The left has a lot of faults, and I agree that the way the left goes about promoting in-group bonding and trying to persuade the middle is harmful — but it’s not the same thing as what the nihilist trolls have done to conservatives.

    aphrael (954d17)

  431. These are the later developments I heard:

    1. Trump’s attorneys have or had a complaint as the search was going on: Some of the material they were looking through could be covered by attorney client privilege, and a pecial master, and not FBI agents, shoukld be examining the material.

    2. A Trump attorney signed a statement in June saying that ll classified material had been turned over.

    2a. The FBI supposedly was informed by someone at Mar-a-Lago that some classified material remained.

    3. Trump says he had outstanding order to declassify anything (taken out of the White House?) If so, he didn’t announce it. and Joe Biden couldn’t reclassify it.

    4. The warrant makes no reference to classification, but only to material that could harmm the United States. This is orthogonal to classification.

    5. Trump claims that Obama took 33 million documents.

    6. That is true, except that it is stored in a National Archives facility in rural Illinois.

    7. From the list, there must be labeled boxes they didn’t take.

    8. Trump probably can ask for some of that back.

    9. Before the warrant was released, the New York Times had a copy (from Trump? With the names of FBI agents not redacted?)

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  432. ugh, that didn’t work.let me try again.

    > Harry Reid lied about Romney paying his taxes and then bragged about it afterwards



    what’s your evidence that this was done to get a reaction out of republicans and not for the purposes of promoting in-group bonding and/or misleading people who aren’t paying attention?

    > They’ve called Republicans racists and fascists, and have claimed since LBJ that Republicans are going to cause a global nuclear holocaust.



    Again, what’s the evidence that the *specific purpose* is to get a reaction out of Republicans? I

    t’s obvious that it *does* get a reaction out of Republicans, but the goal is to rally Democrats and scare moderates.



    That’s true for a lot of conservatives. I’m pretty sure that what MJG is up to is all about in-group signalling and rallying certain kinds of conservatives, for example.



    But there’s a significant element of the online Trumpets movement that is *openly* and *explicitly* about getting a reaction out of liberals, and (a) that’s a relatively new development that isn’t matched in other political movements and (b) is really dangerous and harmful to our society.

    

——

    Back in the early 00s, after the online anarchist movement kinda collapsed in the wake of the Seattle riots, certain online communities started to be filled with something new: nihilists who believed in nothing and cared about nothing except getting reactions out of people. The more people they could shock, outrage, or anger, the better; it was funny, and it was cool, and it showed that you were good at something and successful at something, and getting reactions out of people was a way to win points with your peers.

    I had ties into some of those communities, then, and a community I was responsible for moderating was eventually destroyed by this subculture.



    This subculture got heavily politicized during the Obama years. They were mostly OWS types, at first, but the treatment of Snowden outraged this subculture, and the intersection with Gamergate brought them in close contact with young conservative activists.

    The young conservative activist culture and the nihilist troll culture intermingled to prroduce an online conservative activist culture imbued with the desire to produce outraged reactions and to hurt the feelings of the libs — and that spread throughout the online Trumpist movement like a miasma.



    The left has a lot of faults, and I agree that the way the left goes about promoting in-group bonding and trying to persuade the middle is harmful — but it’s not the same thing as what the nihilist trolls have done to conservatives.

    aphrael (954d17)

  433. aphrael, Democrat hands aren’t clean here.
    “Bush-tler” didn’t just appear out of nowhere, and it took an ex-Democrat like Trump to amp it up even further.
    Having seen the demagoguery since Kennedy smeared Bork (and earlier), both political parties share responsibility for this political climate, and it’s pointless to claim, “yeah, but they’re worse”.
    What we’re seeing right now is major dysfunction in both parties, that Democrats would pick Hillary-Biden as slimy-decrepit standard-bearers and that the GOP would twice pick an unhinged con man. I have no idea how either party can pull it back.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  434. what’s your evidence that this was done to get a reaction out of republicans and not for the purposes of promoting in-group bonding and/or misleading people who aren’t paying attention?

    My evidence is that Reid said it and then bragged about it afterwards. “Promoting in-group bonding”? Get real.

    Again, what’s the evidence that the *specific purpose* is to get a reaction out of Republicans? It’s obvious that it *does* get a reaction out of Republicans, but the goal is to rally Democrats and scare moderates.

    So you’re claiming that the two are mutually exclusive? What’s the purpose of accusing someone of racism if not to get a reaction out of Republicans and put them on the defensive? Claiming that this isn’t done to get a reaction is just passive-aggressive deflection.

    They were mostly OWS types, at first, but the treatment of Snowden outraged this subculture, and the intersection with Gamergate brought them in close contact with young conservative activists. The young conservative activist culture and the nihilist troll culture intermingled to produce an online conservative activist culture imbued with the desire to produce outraged reactions and to hurt the feelings of the libs — and that spread throughout the online Trumpist movement like a miasma

    Attributing the current GOP populism to Gamergate is the chef’s kiss of apologias. This started in the wake of TARP and the Tea Party surge, not Gamergate. The left has been involved in conducting mass protests for their own purposes since the Iraq War, which had roots in the very Seattle riots you referenced.

    The left has a lot of faults, and I agree that the way the left goes about promoting in-group bonding and trying to persuade the middle is harmful — but it’s not the same thing as what the nihilist trolls have done to conservatives.

    It’s noteworthy that you attribute the left’s denigration of conservatives as “in-group bonding,” but the right doing the same thing in the opposite direction is just trolling. This is the type of double standard I bring up all the time. If the left doesn’t like their tactics being used against them, then they can stop using “It’s okay when we do it” as the core of their political philosophy.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  435. “You are watching the Ruling Class lose its collective mind over a man who has not been in office for more than a year and a half, didn’t take his salary when President and likely isn’t drawing a pension. Unless Trump is just a MacGuffin.”

    —-Greg Hlatky

    Colonel Haiku (ac65cf)

  436. You are watching the normal class lose its collective mind over a dude stealing nuclear secrets and saying ‘if the president does it, it’s not illegal, lol give me money.’

    Dustin (a87c64)

  437. Factory working orphan, I have spoken to trumpists who openly say their goal is to get a ride out of libtards.

    I am not saying all conservatives are doing it, or even most — I’m saying that there is a large group who are, not based on my inference but based on their own explanation for their own actions.

    Gamergate fused a pernicious nihilist online culture with the young conservatives of the time.

    It’s the pernicious nihilism I am complaining about, and while there was an element of that in anarchist culture in the 90s, it’s basically not present in the left today.

    (The leftist equivalent is pernicious holier than thou lecturing. Irritating as h*ll)

    It’s a small minority on the right, to be clear. But it’s an influential one.

    aphrael (954d17)

  438. Factory working orphan, I have spoken to trumpists who openly say their goal is to get a ride out of libtards.

    At least they’re being honest about it. The left couches their trolling in self-justifying rhetoric.

    Gamergate fused a pernicious nihilist online culture with the young conservatives of the time.

    Gamergate didn’t do anything of the kind. It’s nothing more than a shibboleth for the online left at this point.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  439. I agree with aphrael, there’s a motivational difference between “I am saying these extreme things to get this group to vote for us” and “I am saying these extreme things with the sole purpose of getting this group mad.” They are both toxic in their own way, but in the Dems the anger of the opposite group is a secondary effect of their primary goal, while in some of the Rs, it’s the primary goal.

    (The edgelord Gamergaters were extremely annoying and toxic, some of them did grow out of it though.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  440. @447. Nuclear secrets??

    Name them Dustin; which ones.

    Do share; tell us. 😉

    “Oops!” – Rick Perry

    DCSCA (c1e12c)

  441. What most makes me Never Trump (next to Trump being a Fifth Avenue fancy boy not capable of packing his own carpetbag) is the claim that he is conservative.

    I’ll give him Republican. I can’t argue against seventeen country clubs.

    But where is the “conservative”? We can’t even say “his mouth”, knowing where it’s been.

    nk (71d186)

  442. @451. Gingrich was the consummate bomb thrower, Nic. Professor emeritus of the Lee Atwater School For Scoundrels. He had a list circulated to GOP members w/incendiary terms for mmbers to use in speeches and pressers– and would toss his verbal grenades into American households by giving hostile speeches on the House floor to an empty chamber knowing full well CSPAN’s must carry rule would pipe it into offices on the Hill– and cable systems carrying CSPAN wired into homes across America. It was clever, sinister– and destructive discourse.

    DCSCA (c1e12c)

  443. After while Trump defense goes from hilarious to embarrassing to depressing. But after a while it’s hilarious again.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  444. What most makes me Never Trump (next to Trump being a Fifth Avenue fancy boy not capable of packing his own carpetbag) is the claim that he is conservative.

    Yes sir.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  445. @DCSCA @454 I will admit I wasn’t paying super close attention to politics for a lot of that time (I was in college and I didn’t have a TV- massive scholarships and a lot of ramen, all my tech money had gone into buying my laptop and printer :P) but I was keeping up as I could. My impression of Newt was that he was more the first type I mentioned rather than the second.

    Nic (896fdf)

  446. Was holding on to this, but this is Newt had he remained content for tenure (at this same college):

    https://www.wyff4.com/article/georgia-professor-shoots-kill-college-freshman/40769460

    urbanleftbehind (0b734c)

  447. Russian media watch:

    Team Putin Airs Insane Offer to ‘Help’ America and ‘Save’ Trump

    It has been a difficult week for the Kremlin.
    ……….
    Naturally, news from America has served as a welcome diversion for Russian state media in the past few days. ……..
    ………
    “There are more homeless children in America than anywhere else in the world. ……..Clearly, we have to help Americans to deal with this disaster. Of course, we can take those homeless children and raise them—normally, without gays and transgenders, in normal, classic culture. We need to start dealing with this right away,” (said Evgeny Popov, the host of state TV show 60 Minutes who also happens to be a member of Russia’s State Duma).

    The desire of Russian propagandists to “help” the United States was also expressed in their concern for Trump’s well-being and safety. (Military expert Igor) Korotchenko ……..claimed to believe that the former president’s life is in grave danger. …….

    “…….. This is a bad scenario, we know the practice of political assassinations in the United States of America,” Korotchenko said. Popov chimed in: “We should ask [Russia’s] Federal Security Service to start protecting our Donald.”

    ……… (Host Vladimir Solovyov on Wednesday’s The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov) condemned American democracy as an “ultra-totalitarian system.”

    Vitaly Tretyakov, dean of Moscow State University’s School of Television, agreed with Solovyov and asserted: “We [Russians] are the last free generation of humanity.” ……..Tretyakov speculated that the new Iron Curtain, enforced through visa bans for the Russians, would turn into the modern-day Berlin wall—with Westerners trying to break through and immigrate to Russia as the last remaining bastion of freedom in the world.

    ……… Addressing the United States, (Popov) said into the camera: “We ran out of goodwill a long time ago. What we do have is a great desire to rip your horns off.”
    #########

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  448. Obudman (00547c) — 8/13/2022 @ 3:23 pm

    The Inflation Reduction Act sure dropped its name quickly.

    I read it was Senator Manchin who wanted to give it that name, as part of the deal for his vote.

    Was the name changed again??

    Or is it that nobody takes that name seriously?

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  449. It’s a small minority on the right, to be clear. But it’s an influential one.

    aphrael (954d17) — 8/14/2022 @ 11:11 am

    It makes sense though. In our short attention span, desperate for donations social media political world, the most obnoxious toddler is the one getting the attention.

    I just think AOC isn’t all that different from Trump.

    ——-

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-nuclearscheme/trump-billionaire-friend-aimed-to-profit-from-mideast-nuclear-deal-democrats-idUSKCN1UO28G

    Gee whiz Trump was selling nuke secrets.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  450. I got polled today, apparently by a group hired by the DeSantis campaign in Florida (my guess) and the person didn;t stop until I told her for the seond time that Iwas not in Florida. I don;t have a Florida area code. The poll taker also neglected to offer the choice of somewhat (prove or disapprove) but would acceot that answer.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  451. Paul: “aphrael, Democrat hands aren’t clean here. “Bush-tler” didn’t just appear out of nowhere, and it took an ex-Democrat like Trump to amp it up even further. Having seen the demagoguery since Kennedy smeared Bork…”

    I tend to see it this way. We’re closing in on two decades of increasing partisanship and escalating bad behavior, though Trump is inarguably a needle pusher in the incivility arms race. Obama was pompous and did zilch to narrow the divide…but he was still in the Overton window of how a President ought to behave. He was a mediocre President in my book because he didn’t recognize that a wholly-partisan Obamacare would exacerbate our political tensions. The Birtherism movement was an embarrassment that started the descent of the Right. Trump then uncorked attitudes about truth, loyalty, and democracy that were and remain chilling. The notion of “giving it back at them” by lying, operating like a criminal enterprise, and trying to be even more despicable…is a recipe for what, exactly? Are people putting stars on their wall every time DeSantis is mean to gay people?

    I would still argue that much of this is amplified and made persistent by social media technology….technology that we really didn’t understand how it could negatively impact culture….and now we simply can’t put it back into the box. Really intelligent people are addicted to Twitter trolling, as if it is accomplishing something…but they just can’t stop.

    Nihilist troll. Funny, I think I just called DCCCP that last week. Do we see more of it on the Right? Probably right at this moment. The Left is more caught up in identity politics and being woke and at the extreme, BLM protests…and, frankly, pushing more ideas. Most of which remain bad and geriatric….dusted off socialism and economic favoritism that most don’t trust. With Trump in charge, it’s not quite clear what the Right is pushing…except anger, hate for certain groups, and an increasing desperation. The extreme sides of the political spectrum thrive in this “look at me” culture. We need to actively expand our bubbles and recognize that both sides have important things to say…and the middle generally captures the reasoned take. We need to re-grow the middle and tamp down the crazies….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  452. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/14/2022 @ 9:24 am

    How a Democrat PAC distorted that reporting is on them.

    The truth wasn’t good enough for them. They wanted people more outraged or for Moore to drop out or lose supporters because of the slander..

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  453. The bottom line is deeply disheartening. Two of the most powerful and prominent politicians in the United States engaged in conduct that virtually any other American would be prosecuted for. They have placed the system under great strain, and the system is buckling.

    It remains to be seen whether Donald Trump’s conduct was so much worse than Hillary Clinton’s that prosecution is both legal and just. Indeed the entire issue may be so fraught with peril that the DOJ may decide to merely seize the documents without any further legal proceedings.

    But if Trump did break the law and is not prosecuted, we can look back at a pivotal moment in history and know why. On July 5, 2016, the FBI set an extraordinary standard for prosecuting powerful people for mishandling our nation’s most precious secrets, and we shouldn’t change that standard for Donald Trump.

    David French is spot on.

    A week ago, thinking that Biden’s DOJ was being political and/or looking for Jan 6th info, I was willing to defend Trump. No longer. As with Hillary’s actions, I regard mishandling of TS info to this degree something that should always be prosecuted.

    The line for me is whether there is a reasonable probability that the information will leak out to 3rd parties, and Hillary’s insecure server, as well as her access to it via mobile devices, made it quite clear than any state actors (and many lesser actors, such as your better hackers) could have grabbed the whole trove. In Trump’s case, it seems even easier, especially at times that former President Trump was not present and security lessened.

    Add to this the refusal (or perjury) regarding returning these documents and it’s very hard to ignore. If you’ve ever signed the agreement to gain TS (or even Secret) clearance, you would know just how much a violation of that agreement this is.

    They should prosecute and ANY jury should convict. Ltt the GOP presedential hopefuls argue about a pardon, assuming that Biden doesn’t pre-empt.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  454. Or you can engage with me and not some straw aphrael you’ve constructed in your head from the biases you have accepted over the years.

    Tempers flare at times. I’ve probably constructed incorrect aphrael models of thinking and others have constructed poor Kevin M models. It happens. But I do TRY for civility and usually, I think, achieve it. mg tried my patience, but his bile was at least honest. He wasn’t the worst actor here.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  455. i’ve *never* encountered an equivalent in the liberal, socialist, or anarchist places i frequent.

    And that’s the rub: “places i frequent”

    You are projecting your standards of decency on a group outside your circle. Or perhaps outside your ken. I think that it is obvious that *some* left-wing regimes in the world have been both anti-democratic and murderous. It would be naive to say that no one in the USA has similar beliefs. You just won’t associate with them. That does not mean they aren’t there, just as my unwillingness to associate with Nazis does not mean there are no Nazis.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  456. Ricky Revolutionary, R.I.P.

    Ricky Shiffer thought he was Ricky Revolutionary. Now, he’s Ricky Rigor Mortis, who died as he lived on social media: pointlessly, fruitlessly, and stupidly.
    ……….
    Say this for Ricky Revolutionary: At least he had the courage of his idiotic convictions. You can’t say as much for the people who make a comfortable living manipulating misfits like him. Take Charlie Kirk, the young radio host and TPUSA entrepreneur who insists that the FBI’s warrant-service at Mar-a-Lago was nothing short of “a military operation against a political dissident.” Kirk’s followers take this message seriously: “There’s no time for politics, we are at war,” one representative response declared.
    ……….
    Upon hearing the news from Cincinnati, Kirk, who argues that we are engaged in a literal war — “military operation,” etc. — declared that the Left is trying to manipulate radical rightists into doing something stupid and violent. Of course, these sad misfits are being manipulated and exploited — mainly by demagogues such as Charlie Kirk, whose po-faced protestations of peaceability are inconsistent with their account of the facts of the case, i.e., that this is war.

    This isn’t war. Ricky Revolutionary wasn’t Crispus Attucks. January 6 wasn’t the Boston Massacre. And Charlie Kirk isn’t Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, no matter how many times he calls himself a “dissident” between commercial breaks on his nationally syndicated radio program. In totalitarian societies, you find dissidents wasting away in labor camps, not stopping into the first-class lounge on their way to the next speaking engagement.

    We are at a peculiar moment in history when “You support the regime!” is an indictment hurled at conservatives by people who think of themselves as conservatives. ……..
    ………..

    Ouch!

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  457. Trump’s attorneys have or had a complaint as the search was going on: Some of the material they were looking through could be covered by attorney client privilege, and a pecial master, and not FBI agents, shoukld be examining the material.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/14/2022 @ 10:33 am

    ————————

    Trump’s best defense would likely be that he didn’t really know that classified material remained at Mar-a-Lago, because he relied on his aides and lawyers, who told him that they gave all the classified material back to the government. The problem for Trump is that doing so would likely waive attorney-client privilege between himself and the lawyers he is pointing the finger at, and it’s unclear whether any of them would be willing to take the fall for him.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  458. Comey’s unwise decision to not prosecute Hillary set a terrible precedent.

    It wasn’t Comey’s decision in the first place, and it was President Trump in 2016 who decided not to prosecute HRC.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  459. @468. ????

    The National Review; reaffirming itself tastelessly irrelevant: ‘pointlessly, fruitlessly, and stupidly.’

    DCSCA (75074f)

  460. It wasn’t Comey’s decision in the first place, and it was President Trump in 2016 who decided not to prosecute HRC.

    Pretty sure that was 2017.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  461. @468: “Drunk, stupid and dead is no way to go through life, son.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  462. “Drunk, stupid and dead is no way to go through life, son.”

    … said Squinty with a wink to Hunter as he stuffed this month’s kickback into the sleeve of the jacket he couldn’t slip on.

    DCSCA (75074f)

  463. Here’s a thought. One of the problems running for office as a Republican today is Donald Trump’s ability to move a large portion of your base, for or against. Even if he were not to run in 2024, he’d have great influence over the contenders.

    BUT: If he is convicted of a serious crime, he’d probably be hoping for a pardon from a GOP President (arguing that Hillary skated on a similar crime). So, Trump being Trump (and focused on Trump), he would be unlikely to antagonize any GOP candidate.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  464. “Comey’s unwise decision to not prosecute Hillary set a terrible precedent.”

    That and delaying things until right before the election.

    _____

    Also @469, that’s great, now where’s the memo for all the classified stuff they grabbed in the raid?

    Davethulhu (a94860)

  465. There is nothing quite like a DCSCA utter non sequitur.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  466. “For years a crack political unit was threatened with prison by jealous Ds, frustrated Rs and a DOJ weasel for crimes they didn’t commit. These men promptly escaped capture to a MAGA Florida compound. Today, still hounded by Squinty’s government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, and no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can re-hire… the Trump-Team….” 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucLb7ZDv8e8&t=63s

    DCSCA (75074f)

  467. “Don’s Own: The D-Team”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  468. They’d be the F-Team, but that’s taken by Don’s lawyers.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  469. “Comey’s unwise decision to not prosecute Hillary set a terrible precedent.”

    I really would have loved to see Comey demand Hillary’s indictment in September 2016. What a sh1tstorm that would have been.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  470. Some tentative good news for the US:

    Many of the global prices for food, fuel and fertilizer that spiked when Russia invaded Ukraine have returned to their prewar levels, defying the most dire forecasts even as policymakers warn of the continued risk of famine and financial crisis in the developing world.
    . . .
    Wheat is now less expensive than when the war began. Brent crude oil, the global benchmark, hovers around its mid-February level of $97 per barrel. And the price of urea fertilizer, which almost doubled in the war’s first weeks, is back to its prewar level.

    But not necessarily good news for third world nations, especially those that are badly managed.

    In Lebanon, food prices rocketed by 332 percent, while Iranian food bills jumped by 87 percent and Turkish grocery costs rose by 95 percent.

    Part of the problem for them — though it makes it easier on us — is the increase in the value of the US dollar against most other currencies.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  471. It wasn’t Comey’s decision in the first place, and it was President Trump in 2016 who decided not to prosecute HRC.

    Pretty sure that was 2017.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/14/2022 @ 2:33 pm

    Pretty sure the article I linked to is dated Nov. 22, 2016. I should have said “President-elect” Trump, but the conclusion is the same. FBI Directors don’t make charging decisions (as Comey found out).

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  472. Popov chimed in: “We should ask [Russia’s] Federal Security Service to start protecting our Donald.”

    Will they offer to exchange Brittney Griner for him, I wonder?

    nk (766c26)

  473. Trump Hires ‘Billion Dollar Lawyer’
    ……….
    The lawyer, Drew Findling, has represented an array of rap stars including Cardi B, Gucci Mane and Migos, and is known by the hashtag #BillionDollarLawyer. But he is also well regarded for a range of criminal defense work that he has done in Georgia, and his hiring underscores the seriousness of the investigation — as well as the potential legal jeopardy for Trump.
    ……….
    Findling brings decades of trial experience ranging from high-profile murder cases to local political corruption scandals. But in the past, he has been openly — indeed, scathingly — critical of the former president.
    ………
    Findling explained his decision to take on Trump by referring to John Adams, who took the unpopular position of representing British troops after the Boston Massacre.
    ……….
    Findling …… maintained that Trump had done nothing improper in Georgia. He mentioned Trump’s infamous taped phone call Jan. 2, 2021, with Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, and specifically addressed the moment when Trump pressed Raffensperger to “find” 11,780 votes that could overturn Joe Biden’s victory in Georgia, which some legal experts say may amount to solicitation to commit election fraud under Georgia law.

    The conversation with Raffensperger, he added, amounted to an effort to “negotiate a resolution” to a civil legal matter.
    ………
    Esther Panitch, a veteran Atlanta-area criminal defense lawyer …….has known Findling for years. She called him “brilliant.”

    “That being said, he needs a client who will listen to him,” she said, adding: “You can’t hold Drew responsible if his client refuses to take his advice. And Trump is the kind of client that lawyers fear. Because he can’t be controlled.”
    #########

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  474. You know, Melania could be the FBI informant. Follow me on this:

    Melania is already well past the age Ivana was when Trump traded her in. Donald asks Putin for a new, younger handler. Putin agrees on the condition that Trump hand him a substantial treasure trove of U.S. national security secrets. Melania, having sacrificed for so long, is not willing to give up the lifestyle of the rich and famous that she has become accustomed to. So she scotches the deal by snitching out the bride price.

    What do you think?

    nk (766c26)

  475. Popov chimed in: “We should ask [Russia’s] Federal Security Service to start protecting our Donald.”

    Will they offer to exchange Brittney Griner for him, I wonder?

    nk (766c26) — 8/14/2022 @ 6:19 pm

    I would give them Trump without expecting anything in return.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  476. nk – Your Melania idea reminds me of a famous quip from Niels Bohr: “We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. What divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct. My own feeling is that it is not crazy enough to be correct.”

    Said to Wolfgang Pauli.

    (Quantum mechanics boggled the minds of famous physicists then, and now.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  477. Fox’s Will Cain Quotes Nixon to Defend Trump’s Handling of Classified Documents: ‘If the President Does It, Then it is Not Illegal’
    ……….
    In a conversation with Fox News commentator Bill Bennett, Cain claimed that Nixon said “if a president does it, then it is not illegal,” as it related to classified information. The co-host asked, “is that not truly the standard?” ……..

    However, the quote that Cain mentioned from Nixon was said during a 1977 interview and was walked back by the former president a few months later. This statement, although Nixon attempted to clean it up afterward by arguing in a statement that no one is above the law, was viewed as an accidental admission of guilt.
    ……….
    In the days since the raid on Mar-a-Lago, Trump and his allies have repeatedly claimed that the former president had the ability to declassify confidential information and documents that were removed from federal government possession. Notably, Former Trump administration official Kash Patel argued this theory that Trump could essentially snap his fingers and declassify material.
    ………..

    Of course, Trump is no longer President and able to possess classified information or declassify anything.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  478. (Quantum mechanics boggled the minds of famous physicists then, and now.)

    I miss Dave the particle accelerator physicist. I used to tease him about cavemen making sparks by pounding two rocks together but not understanding how the sparks were made.

    nk (766c26)

  479. But what the left doesn’t generally do is elect candidates whose only goal is to say mean things about Republicans *in order to get a reaction out of the Republicans*. We’re not electing *trolls* for the purpose of sticking a thumb in the eye of conservatives — but if you go out into trumpist message boards online, that’s *exactly* what a lot of Trumpists are gleefully relishing.

    aphrael (954d17) — 8/14/2022 @ 9:25 am

    This may be an online thing. I’ve never met a single person in real life that this description would fit.

    I also wonder how “I didn’t vote for Biden, I voted against Trump” isn’t somewhat adjacent to this. That’s a great example of cutting off your nose to spite your face and people say it without irony.

    frosty (fd7612)

  480. Trump Hires ‘Billion Dollar Lawyer’

    Does he own a good suit?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  481. What do you think?

    I think that Melania could get whatever parting gifts she asked for. Trump might have legal options, but this really isn’t the time for a nasty divorce.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  482. @490: I think in the current age of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion that Pauli’s Exclusion Principle is on shaky ground.

    Physics joke: Two fermions enter a bar. One fermion says “I’ll have a beer.” The second fermion says “Damn!”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  483. I also wonder how “I didn’t vote for Biden, I voted against Trump” isn’t somewhat adjacent to this. That’s a great example of cutting off your nose to spite your face and people say it without irony.

    No, it’s just people thinking differently than you do. It’s quite possible to have no feeling one way or the other about Biden — many in the center probably felt that way — but be absolutely sure you don’t want Trump getting a second term.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  484. AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 8/14/2022 @ 12:00 pm

    I can’t argue, AJ, and I like to argue. 🙂

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  485. Nic: “I agree with aphrael, there’s a motivational difference between “I am saying these extreme things to get this group to vote for us” and “I am saying these extreme things with the sole purpose of getting this group mad.” They are both toxic in their own way, but in the Dems the anger of the opposite group is a secondary effect of their primary goal, while in some of the Rs, it’s the primary goal.”

    I think I’ve been persuaded. I get the impression that winning the internet takes precedence over growing the tent…that’s pretty obvious. These rousers love Trump because he in the end really doesn’t believe in anything either….just his own self indulgence. One can say, well illegal immigration, angst over free trade, a passion for conservative judges, and de-regulation….these are beliefs. Nah, because Trump is not really able to talk about any of them for more than the 8 minutes allocated to one at one of his pep rallies. It’s booob bait for bubbas. A nihilist can smell one of his own….

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  486. What do you think?

    I think Melania holds the cards until Barron is an adult, but I don’t believe she’ll take the gloves off against her two-timing husband because he likes to bind his women to NDAs.
    He has NDA binders full of women!

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  487. As far as I was concerned, Biden was running unopposed.

    I’m not happy that Disney has Copycat working Deadpool over with strap-on, but that doesn’t make me want to see Ukraine turned into glass. (And if you think that’s hyperbole, check out the comments on the New York Post sometime.) I’ll just not watch Deadpool 3.

    Trump is not qualified to be President. It’s that simple.

    nk (766c26)

  488. I also wonder how “I didn’t vote for Biden, I voted against Trump” isn’t somewhat adjacent to this. That’s a great example of cutting off your nose to spite your face and people say it without irony.

    frosty (fd7612) — 8/14/2022 @ 7:03 pm

    Remember when Biden curbstomped Trump while being almost a corpse?

    That’s a good way of determining Trump’s general merit as a populist I guess.

    The next time Trump wins the most votes in an election will be the first time, and he only runs against horrible people.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  489. Jim, I follow Shellenberger on the Twitter, and he has a good one about fertilizers and Sri Lanka. I only read his first link, but it’s eye-opening.
    He and Jon Adler (over at Reason) are two who have a consistently conservative (and science-based) perspective on environmental issues, and I wish they had more influence.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  490. Trump is not qualified to be President. It’s that simple

    In fact, it’s simpler:

    He is qualified; he was POTUS. And if he chooses to run, will be again.

    DCSCA (839d7d)

  491. A couple of random thoughts. One, the one thing that truly impressed me in the 2016 debates was when Trump said to Hillary’s face that she should be in jail. That was a brave and unprecedented thing to say to a rival in a presidential debate, and he happened to be right. Who can say whether that made a difference in the election but it didn’t hurt Trump. If anything, it put Hillary on her heels.

    Two, we can now say that the GOP-led House investigated Benghazi and nothing really came of it, but for one thing: It was how we learned about Hillary’s home-brewed server. It may well have stayed secret had House Republicans not bore down. Hillary asked, “What difference at this point does it make?” Well, that was a difference.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  492. Anne Heche (53) has officially died (previously she was just brain dead and on life support).

    I can’t work up any sympathy for her. Driving drunk, while on coke, as well as speeding, she was lucky she didn’t kill anyone besides herself when she destroyed a family’s home. She made her bed, now she sleeps in it for eternity.

    No requiescat in pace for her.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  493. Rip forgive me please if I’ve misidentified your remarks… I’m going off memory. Regarding Trump being cheap and outsourcing, of course he outsources manufacturing and assembly… producing things cheaper and equals larger profit margins. But that is totally different than being too cheap to hire the best when in comes to making problem documents go away.

    steveg (ec4ffa)

  494. Remember when Biden curbstomped Trump while being almost a corpse?

    Dustin (a87c64) — 8/14/2022 @ 8:03 pm

    I remember the corpse part. Not so much the curbstomping. If he was so effectively curbstomped why am I always hearing from reliable people that it’s important that he can’t be ignored. If he was curbstomped why can’t NeverTrump quit him?

    Why does it seem like there’s a general fear that he will not only run in 2024 but win?

    frosty (fd7612)

  495. @410 treason is a minor offense? Trumps only crime. How about on tape asking ga. sec. of state to come up with 11.000+ fraudulent votes. Making a deal with Iran to hold are hostages till after the 1980 election so reagan could win the election. Casey’s secret way to fund the contras having ollie north and eden pastore sell crack to black school children with clinton allowing to be brought in thru mena ark. Minor offenses right? Lying about nukes when bush knew that Iraq didn’t have nukes and outing valerie plain for revenge. Evil.

    asset (4987d8)

  496. But that is totally different than being too cheap to hire the best when in comes to making problem documents go away.

    steveg (ec4ffa) — 8/14/2022 @ 8:30 pm

    I may misinterpreted your comment.

    I’m sure Trump is paying top dollar for his Georgia defense lawyer. See post 487.

    Rip Murdock (fd7522)

  497. @508 Trump lost by 43,000 votes. az. 10,000 votes ga. 13,000 votes wi. 20,000 votes hardly a stomping and only because republican legislators trying to keep libertarian party off ballot (they failed) allowed democrat party to use ballot access laws to keep green party off ballot or trump would have won in 2020. Example 2016 trump wins wisconsin by 22,000 with Jill stein (GP) getting 38,000 votes 2020 democrats kick green party off of the ballot biden wins wi. by 20,000 votes. 81,000,000 votes means nothing in our electoral system.

    asset (4987d8)

  498. Rip Murdock (fd7522) — 8/14/2022 @ 8:27 pm

    heche is a reminder of the importance of fathers

    read up on her life story

    JF (d08042)

  499. Remember when Biden curbstomped Trump while being almost a corpse?

    I remember Trump curbstomping himself in the first debate while Biden tried to avert his eyes.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  500. You miss a couple of days around here and things really take a turn.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  501. I miss Dave the particle accelerator physicist. I used to tease him about cavemen making sparks by pounding two rocks together but not understanding how the sparks were made.

    nk (766c26) — 8/14/2022 @ 6:57 pm

    Dave inhabits every thread here inside my head. He once used a very mean term to describe a certain commenter whom I’ll leave nameless. Now virtually every time I read one of that person’s comments, Dave’s colorful epithet leaps to mind.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  502. My evidence is that Reid said it and then bragged about it afterwards.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/14/2022 @ 10:48 am

    What’s the “it” in that sentence? Is it the lie about Romney’s taxes or that he told it to p1ss off Republicans? Because if it’s it the former, duh. But if it’s the latter, I’d love to see a link, and I mean that sincerely. I’ve always assumed he said it to dissuade persuadables from voting for Romney, which frankly IMO is the more scurrilous motive.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  503. I also wonder how “I didn’t vote for Biden, I voted against Trump” isn’t somewhat adjacent to this. That’s a great example of cutting off your nose to spite your face and people say it without irony.

    frosty (fd7612) — 8/14/2022 @ 7:03 pm

    I may not be a relevant data point since I’m neither part of the left nor the right, but “I didn’t vote for Biden, I voted against Trump” describes me well enough, and I don’t see how that’s adjacent to being motivated by animus to conservatives. I think Biden sux. I think his progressive economic policies suk and I think his woke identitarian pandering sux. I just believe Trump is orders of magnitude worse. If voting for Biden was cutting of my nose — I don’t get the metaphor, but let’s go with it for now — I didn’t do to spite my face. I did it to save my face from my cancerous nose.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  504. Ugh typos. You can figure it out.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  505. hardly a stomping and only because republican legislators trying to bla bla bla shut up

    asset (4987d8) — 8/14/2022 @ 8:49 pm

    LOL

    Dustin (a87c64)

  506. What’s the “it” in that sentence? Is it the lie about Romney’s taxes or that he told it to p1ss off Republicans? Because if it’s it the former, duh. But if it’s the latter, I’d love to see a link, and I mean that sincerely. I’ve always assumed he said it to dissuade persuadables from voting for Romney, which frankly IMO is the more scurrilous motive.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/14/2022 @ 10:11 pm

    What’s the motivation of blatantly lying, and then bragging that he lied about it afterwards, about Romney failing to pay his taxes if not to p1ss off Republicans?(“Well, it worked, didn’t it?”) Like I said above, why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  507. I did it to save my face from my cancerous nose.

    Well played.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  508. @519 tells me to shut up why? You don’t want to no what actually happened in the election? You want biden’s meaningless 8,000,000 vote lead in the popular vote to have meaning? Tell that to the electoral collage. Biden won by 43,000 votes in 3 states and all three states along with other states are trying to change the voting procedures so it doesn’t happen again.

    asset (4987d8)

  509. shhhhhhhhhhhhh

    Dustin (a87c64)

  510. The dirty pool was not what Reid said or why he said it. The dirty pool was that he said it knowing that Romney could not contradict an Elder.

    nk (d660c4)

  511. asset (4987d8) — 8/15/2022 @ 2:00 am

    We’ll, the answer to that is easy. Dustin is important and clever and his options are valued. Something was said about sliding scales and track records.

    It’s not that hard to criticize your comments or the positions you take. But Dustin isn’t required to do that.

    frosty (8db1aa)

  512. I didn’t do to spite my face. I did it to save my face from my cancerous nose.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/14/2022 @ 10:30 pm

    If Trump was the tumor you cut off then Biden’s the cow pie you put on the wound as a bandage.

    This thread started with the notion that only Trumpers make decisions with some element of stick it to the other side. You haven’t noticed the number of conversations about Trump that eventually turn into conversations about his supporters? You haven’t noticed the emotional reaction that people who hate Trump have for people who voted for him? You don’t think there’s some desire to stick it to the Trump cultists? You haven’t seen comments here, or generally, about how Trumpers “need to realize” or “learn a lesson” or “maybe the Rs have to lose to understand they need to get back on track”? And it’s more than a general desire. During the campaign Biden was touted as the anti-Trump. His supposed features and benefits distilled down to how he wasn’t Trump. He was supposed to be everything Trump wasn’t just by being the opposite.

    If you can’t pick a reason to have voted for Biden other than he’s not Trump how’s that you not trying to send a message with your vote? You’d think that if Biden was actually better people would just say that and cite examples. Saying “because not Trump” is a stick it to the other side statement.

    The irony is there’s nothing wrong with sending a message with your vote or trying to stick it to the other side if it’s for policy reasons. The reason this is something people will want to deny is that it’s been claimed that Trumpers do it for irrational reasons and it’s very important to not be doing the same thing.

    frosty (a624fb)

  513. frosty:

    This thread started with the notion that only Trumpers make decisions with some element of stick it to the other side. You haven’t noticed the number of conversations about Trump that eventually turn into conversations about his supporters? You haven’t noticed the emotional reaction that people who hate Trump have for people who voted for him? You don’t think there’s some desire to stick it to the Trump cultists? You haven’t seen comments here, or generally, about how Trumpers “need to realize” or “learn a lesson” or “maybe the Rs have to lose to understand they need to get back on track”? And it’s more than a general desire. During the campaign Biden was touted as the anti-Trump. His supposed features and benefits distilled down to how he wasn’t Trump. He was supposed to be everything Trump wasn’t just by being the opposite.

    Intriguing comment. I think the best answer is think: what if all those folks voted for Romney or Cruz instead? Would there be the same degree of animus or emotion? In my mind, that’s doubtful. The issue is not “deplorables” but that these folks did vote for Trump, who is deemed deplorable.

    Is there some desire to stick it to Trump cultists? Well, if you are talking about prominent ones in the press, or even some of our commenters — probably yes. Voters — no. I think Trump voters, if they feel they must vote for him again, should reflect on their civics classes and think how things are supposed to work under the Constitution. Trump’s conduct from November 2020 onwards is beyond the pale for me. It’s a rallying point for too many — and that disturbs me. It disturbs me enough to reject Trump on a ballot against anyone. Even if that is our current senescent mediocrity.

    Appalled (4a7dbf)

  514. Of course I want to stick it to Trump supporters. Trump did not make them, they made him. Like any other graven image.

    I said it back in 2016. Trump first went out and listened to people. And then he told them what they had told him. Their grievances, their prejudices, their hates. And they elected him to “lead” them where they wanted to go.

    And now? There are two kinds. Those who still drop money in the collection plate and those who collect it. And both kinds have one thing in common. They have nobody else.

    nk (903077)

  515. I think the GOP’s reaction to Liz Cheney says it all. She’s smart, she has a strong conservative voting record, and she even backed Trump’s reelection despite his many foibles (she’s loyal). She drew the line at him lying about the election, stoking violence at the Capitol, then sitting a doing nothing as the violence played out. Wyoming Republicans prefer their representatives to lie and cover up for their “leader”. It’s embarrassing and it’s sad that this is what the GOP has become. I enthusiastically endorse comment #528.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  516. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/radical-traditionalist-catholic-christian-rosary-weapon/671122/

    Just as the AR-15 rifle has become a sacred object for Christian nationalists in general, the rosary has acquired a militaristic meaning for radical-traditional (or “rad trad”) Catholics. On this extremist fringe, rosary beads have been woven into a conspiratorial politics and absolutist gun culture. These armed radical traditionalists have taken up a spiritual notion that the rosary can be a weapon in the fight against evil and turned it into something dangerously literal.

    This what you were referencing aphrael?

    More red meat for leftists or is this just a made up attack on conservative Christians, specifically Catholics.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  517. AJ,

    she became a willing pawn and tool for Nanzi Pelosi. She’s arrogant and foolish as her constituents told her to move on and she gave them the finger. So they are retiring her with notice.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  518. Here’s an interesting thread from a former Facility Security Officer, the person who presides of over SCIFs and such.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  519. she became a willing pawn and tool for Nanzi Pelosi. She’s arrogant and foolish as her constituents told her to move on and she gave them the finger. So they are retiring her with notice

    That you choose to look at her as having become “a willing pawn and tool for Pelosi” rather than risking her whole political career to hold accountable any and all for the events of Jan. 6 and honoring her oath to remain loyal to the Consitution, certainly tells us more about you than about Cheney. It also confirms that you (I think you have been a part of this group) and others here have been absolutely right when you have told me repeatedly that Cheney is no longer representative of today’s GOP. I now find myself in agreement with you. I think she is no longer representative of today’s Republican Party, and instead is quickly becoming a throwback to a time when the Republican Party actually stood on principles and values that were, for the most part, unshakable. Things like honoring the Constitution and the rule of law.

    Dana (1225fc)

  520. she became a willing pawn and tool for Nanzi Pelosi.

    Cheney put her country and party above over a lying deutschebag who undermined our democracy.
    Taking the co-chair position on the J6 Committee was in furtherance of those priorities. The sad part is that so many other hardcore Trumpists are also putting person over country.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  521. What good is a Santa who brings you a bicycle but brings one to your bratty sister too instead of coal? Trump does not cater to loves. He serves hates.

    nk (903077)

  522. I earlier referenced the Hannity segment where a 2-year old DeSantis video was deceptively and cleverly spliced in. This is the DeSantis video on its own, and it puts him more in my favor for nominee.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  523. That you choose to look at her as having become “a willing pawn and tool for Pelosi” rather than risking her whole political career to hold accountable any and all for the events of Jan. 6 and honoring her oath to remain loyal to the Consitution, certainly tells us more about you than about Cheney. It also confirms that you (I think you have been a part of this group) and others here have been absolutely right when you have told me repeatedly that Cheney is no longer representative of today’s GOP. I now find myself in agreement with you. I think she is no longer representative of today’s Republican Party, and instead is quickly becoming a throwback to a time when the Republican Party actually stood on principles and values that were, for the most part, unshakable. Things like honoring the Constitution and the rule of law.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/15/2022 @ 8:52 am

    She chose to become a pawn for the left.

    She had all the leverage in the world as Pelosi was desperate to make her Star Chamber seem bipartisan so Cheney could’ve asked for more Republicans. If she wanted a legitimate inquiry, she should’ve demanded such. Instead she was just a lapdog for the left and she is being shown the door accordingly.

    At least she’ll always have guest appearances on MSNBC, CNN and the View.

    Dana, you’re engaging in a personal attack when you say the following:

    rather than risking her whole political career to hold accountable any and all for the events of Jan. 6 and honoring her oath to remain loyal to the Consitution, certainly tells us more about you than about Cheney.

    The implication is insulting implying that if you don’t support the left’s antics, you’re anti-Constitution.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  524. If she wanted a legitimate inquiry…

    How is the current J6 Committee illegitimate?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  525. How is Dana’s comment a “personal attack”? Trump was trying to coerce Pence to violate the 12th Amendment. The question is, did you support what Trump did and, if so, how can you claim to be pro-Constitution?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  526. https://www.newsweek.com/garland-wray-must-impeached-unconscionable-trump-raid-opinion-1733523

    All of this.


    All presidents take mementos and other records when they leave office. They don’t pack their own boxes. The National Archives takes the position that almost everything is a “presidential record.” And the federal government, in general, over-classifies almost everything.

    Even if Trump took classified records, that isn’t a crime. The president has the inherent constitutional power to declassify any record he wants, in any manner he wants, regardless of any otherwise-pertinent statute or regulation that applies to everyone else. The president does not need to obtain Congress’ or a bureaucrat’s permission—or jump through their regulatory or statutory hoops—to declassify anything. The Supreme Court reaffirmed this in the 1988 case, Department of the Navy v. Egan : “The President, after all, is the ‘Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.’ U.S. Const., Art. II, § 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security…flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant.”

    Thus, if Trump left the White House with classified records, then those records are necessarily declassified by his very actions. He doesn’t need to label that decision for, or report that decision to, any bureaucrat who works for him. It is pretextual legal nonsense for the Biden Justice Department to pretend Trump broke any criminal statute. Indeed, it is noteworthy that Attorney General Garland apparently did not seek an opinion from the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC)—the de facto general counsel for the executive branch—before ordering this home raid of his boss’s chief political enemy. Perhaps Garland knew OLC wouldn’t give him the answer he wanted.

    Attorney General Garland attempted to defend the indefensible in his political press conference last Thursday. Garland left more questions than answers. As a former federal judge and prosecutor, he should be ashamed of himself for so recklessly politicizing the Justice Department. And the politicized, highly inappropriate, inaccurate leaks out of the Justice Department about the underlying grand jury investigation further demonstrate the Biden regime is out of control in its pursuit of punishing a past and likely-future political rival of President Biden.

    House Republicans must impeach Attorney General Garland and FBI Director Wray for their unprecedented and destructive politicization of the Justice Department, when they reclaim power in January. And over the long term, House and Senate Republicans must dismantle and rebuild the FBI, so political raids like this never happen again. We cannot allow our law enforcement agencies to become third-world political hit squads.

    whembly (b770f8)

  527. A variant of “Mike Pence as counter of the Electoral Votes could count them any way he wants”.

    nk (10aa53)

  528. whembly, that partisan dude said the search was “unlawful”, and then misrepresented it by calling it a “raid”. It’s a load of hogwash, beginning to end.
    Trump’s “standing order” is a hoax. He never made that directive while he was president, and there’s zero evidence he did so.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  529. When a Trump supporter (not you, whembly, the opinion writer) cites law, check it.

    Dept. of Navy v. Egan:

    ISSUE:
    Did the MSRB have statutory authority to review underlying reasons for denial of security clearance, where federal civilian employee lost his job for based on national security concerns?

    ANSWER:
    No

    CONCLUSION:
    The United States Supreme Court that any employee removed for “cause” had right of appeal to the MSRB under 5 U.S.C.S. § 7513(d), but suspension and removal for national security grounds under § 5 U.S.C.S. 7532 was not entitled to such appeal. The Court held that because the substance of Egan’s removal was based upon national security concerns, Egan was not entitled to review by the MSRB. The grant of security clearance was a sensitive, discretionary call committed by law to Executive Branch. President, under U.S. Const. art. II, § 2, had authority to protect information bearing on national security decisions, for which courts had traditionally shown utmost deference. The court held that Egan received adequate procedural protection. Egan received notice, the right to inspect evidence, the right to respond, a written decision, and an opportunity to appeal to the Personnel Security Appeals Board.

    nk (10aa53)

  530. Thus, if Trump left the White House with classified records, then those records are necessarily declassified by his very actions. He doesn’t need to label that decision for, or report that decision to, any bureaucrat who works for him.

    There is a 2020 court case that disagrees.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  531. NeverTrump has minced its way through the first of the five stages of grief… denial, and they are currently dealing with anger and the lashing out that signifies their political impotence. Soon it will be bargaining, fighting depression and then the eventual acceptance of their diminished presence.

    Their tears of rage will be spectacular!

    Colonel Haiku (5bf329)

  532. The thing is, Biden could claim that–by the powers of his mind, with no verbal or written directive necessary–all documents declassified by Trump at Mar-A-Lago were reclassified once they passed through the doors of the country club, and such a claim would be just as legitimate as Trump’s silly and far-fetched “standing order” nonsense.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  533. The way I see it, Trump tacitly resigned as President when he failed to “faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States” and “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States”.

    What?

    nk (c1302c)

  534. We never hear from Haiku or NJRob about what is right or wrong….only what’s good for the Right or bad for the Left…and in @545 what makes NeverTrump teary eyed. Firing Cheney instead of Trump just keeps the fetid stench alive…only bullies, thugs, lambs, and fluffers are wanted by the GOP. You have to wonder, which category are you?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  535. #540 whembly – Thanks for linking that Mike Davis Newsweek column. To learn that Senator Grassley had such a dishonest Trumpista working for him lowers my opinion of Grassley. Though disappointing, it’s better to know that about Grassley, than not know it.

    Ironic: Davis “is the founder and president of the Article III Project (A3P). A3P defends constitutionalist judges and the rule of law.” That’s pretty funny. Especially at the end of that column.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  536. Enjoy your memberships in the Party of Chaos and Death!

    Colonel Haiku (5bf329)

  537. Trump’s Investigation Miscalculation
    ………
    ……..Trump seems to think that running for president makes it less likely that he will be prosecuted by the Department of Justice. That’s wrong. The more Trump stays in the public sphere the more likely he is to be prosecuted.

    Say what you will about the wisdom of President Gerald Ford’s September 1974 pardon of Richard Nixon, one thing is clear—it was part of an implicit bargain. In exchange for letting his predecessor go unpunished, Ford was purchasing social peace. ……..

    Much the same can be said of Independent Counsel Robert Ray’s January 2001 decision not to bring criminal charges against Bill Clinton. ……..

    Neither man honored his implicit promise perfectly. ………

    ……George Washington’s pardons after the Whiskey Rebellion were intended to soothe the tumultuous political waters of the day. Likewise, Jimmy Carter’s decision to pardon those who had resisted the draft and avoided service during the Vietnam War is a perfect example of this civil peacemaking function. It was an effort to end the contentious debate about the war and put it behind us.

    …….There is a real sense in which the general promise not to prosecute a former president after his term ends is part of the price we pay for the routine peaceful transition of power. ……

    But part of an implicit bargain is that both sides have to agree to the bargain. ……
    ………
    ……..If Trump had chosen to retire to Mar-a-Lago and play golf or even if he had retreated to his resort and continued to exercise influence over the Republican party but chosen not to run again for office, I suspect that Attorney General Merrick Garland would have welcomed the excuse to forgo a prosecution of Trump (whether for the alleged presidential records violations that lie behind the search or for other offenses related to January 6th). Garland would likely have judged the precedent be too significant and the risks to civil society too extreme.

    But by seriously considering running for office, and repeatedly teasing that he will run during his campaign-rally-like speeches, Trump increasingly takes the option of forbearance off the table……..
    ………

    If Trump is convicted (for mishandling classified information) before the November 2024 election, I predict that Biden will pardon Trump on his way out. I don’t think Trump will be prosecuted for anything related to January 6th, but will possibly be named an unindicted co-conspirator in indictments of his minions (Eastman, Giuliani, Powell, et. al.)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  538. The Party of Generational Grift.

    Colonel Haiku (5bf329)

  539. “If it backfires, if underlying this action there isn’t a very substantial there there, the Biden administration just took the world’s most reputable police force and turned it into the American version of the Tonton Macoute on national television. We may be looking at simultaneously the dumbest and most inadvertently destructive political gambit in the recent history of this country.”

    —- Matt Taibbi

    Colonel Haiku (5bf329)

  540. #550

    if the choice is between Doom and the policies of the new, improved GOP, wouldn’t it be the height of patriotism and duty for Trump and his followers to find someone who could peel away votes from Biden?

    But that’s the step you guys refuse to take. So I guess you own a piece of chaos and death, too.

    Appalled (add97a)

  541. “the world’s most reputable police force”

    lol

    Davethulhu (a94860)

  542. Most Hageman voters believe 2020 election was illegitimate, UW poll shows
    ………
    Of likely voters who support Hageman in Tuesday’s primary, only 16% believe that President Joe Biden’s election was legitimate, according to a new poll from the University of Wyoming. That’s compared to 94% of Cheney supporters who believe the result was legitimate.
    ………
    “Absolutely the election was rigged. It was rigged to make sure that President Trump could not get reelected,” Hageman said on stage during Politics in the Park at Washington Park. “What happened in 2020 is a travesty.”
    ………
    In the same vein, nearly three-fourths of Hageman’s likely voters say there “is solid evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election, while 3 percent of Cheney supporters say the same,” a press release accompanying the UW poll noted.
    ……..
    ……..Wyoming is so deeply red that the polling suggests liberal support will not be enough for Cheney to close the gap between her and Hageman.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  543. Meanwhile:

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/15/politics/lindsey-graham-georgia-investigation/index.html

    I can’t understand why it takes a DA in Georgia to actually address the Big LIe in a criminal proceeding. But, so it goes.

    Appalled (add97a)

  544. Giuliani says Trump’s first reaction to the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago was to boast about the size of the crowd supporting him outside
    ………
    “You see the number of people in front of Mar-a-Lago already? This is gonna turn around, American people have common sense, they’ve gone too far now,” Giuliani recalled Trump telling him.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  545. We never hear from Haiku or NJRob about what is right or wrong….only what’s good for the Right or bad for the Left…and in @545 what makes NeverTrump teary eyed. Firing Cheney instead of Trump just keeps the fetid stench alive…only bullies, thugs, lambs, and fluffers are wanted by the GOP. You have to wonder, which category are you?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 8/15/2022 @ 10:25 am

    Name calling is a violation of ToS. You don’t care.

    I’ve cited Trump’s defects many times. Up to you to go through the archives to look for them. Not my job to join you in the pile on. I can see clearly that the left is trying to destroy our nation and turn it into the USSA. Every time you deflect from that and make it about Trump, you show which side you are on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  546. @542

    whembly, that partisan dude said the search was “unlawful”

    It could be, or at the very least, abusive.

    , and then misrepresented it by calling it a “raid”.

    You don’t get to liberally label the riot on J6 as an “insurrection” and get your panties twisted when someone hyperbolically labels this as a “raid”.

    You’re attempting to fixate on a word in an attempt to disregard the author’s point. Please do better.

    It’s a load of hogwash, beginning to end.

    Care to elaborate?

    Trump’s “standing order” is a hoax.

    Citation?

    He never made that directive while he was president, and there’s zero evidence he did so.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 9:47 am

    Citation?

    I don’t think you can provide citations substantiating your assertions. We don’t know what documents are still allegedly classified, so there’s no way you can be this absolute.

    You are letting your animus of All-Things-Trump cloud your responses here.

    whembly (b770f8)

  547. Trump says temperature ‘has to be brought down’ after FBI search, then repeats attacks

    Former President Trump on Monday said his aides have reached out to the Department of Justice (DOJ) to offer “whatever we can do to help,” saying the “temperature has to be brought down” after a spike in threats against law enforcement following the FBI’s search of his Mar-a-Lago estate.

    “Whatever we can do to help — because the temperature has to be brought down in the country,” Trump told Fox News. “If it isn’t, terrible things are going to happen.”
    ………
    At the same time that he talked about taking the temperature down, however, Trump repeated attacks on the FBI over the search for classified documents that took place at his Florida estate last week.

    Trump defended his supporters’ attacks in the interview, saying they are “not going to stand for another scam” and describing the FBI’s past investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election as a “witch hunt.”

    “People are so angry at what is taking place,” he said.
    ………
    Trump as recently as Sunday evening called the search “abuse in law enforcement” and a “sneak attack on democracy” on TruthSocial.

    “There has never been a time like this where law enforcement has been used to break into the house of a former president of the United States, and there is tremendous anger in the country — at a level that has never been seen before, other than during very perilous times,” Trump told Fox News.
    ………
    Rep. Michael McCaul (Texas), the top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, called Trump’s rhetoric “inflammatory” during an appearance on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday.

    “I don’t want to put any law enforcement in the bull’s-eye of a potential threat,” McCaul said. “And that’s someone who’s worked with law enforcement most of my career.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  548. Amen. You’d think there’d be a sense of shame, Rob, but they don’t embarrass easy.

    Colonel Haiku (5bf329)

  549. @551

    If Trump is convicted (for mishandling classified information) before the November 2024 election, I predict that Biden will pardon Trump on his way out. I don’t think Trump will be prosecuted for anything related to January 6th, but will possibly be named an unindicted co-conspirator in indictments of his minions (Eastman, Giuliani, Powell, et. al.)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/15/2022 @ 10:37 am

    Any of that will backfire immensely imo.

    I just wish Trump lives out the remainder of his life quietly and out of the political sphere.

    But, in the absolute zeal the Trump-haters in pursuing Trump, will only turn him into a martyr such that galvanizes voters to flock to his corner.

    whembly (b770f8)

  550. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/15/2022 @ 11:13 am

    It would be good to turn down the temperature. Now that Trump’s said it the narrative tomorrow, or possibly later today, will be that the temperature needs to be turned up, in fact it’s demanded of all people who believe in the constitution and freedom and democracy.

    frosty (290871)

  551. @548

    …only bullies, thugs, lambs, and fluffers are wanted by the GOP. You have to wonder, which category are you?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 8/15/2022 @ 10:25 am

    I’m none of those things and I’d appreciate you’d lay down that wide brush you’re trying to paint there.

    Right now, I’m Anti-Democrat™, so I’m voting GOP down ticket in the foreseeable future.

    whembly (b770f8)

  552. Trump’s “standing order” is a hoax.

    Citation?

    He never made that directive while he was president, and there’s zero evidence he did so.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 9:47 am

    Citation?

    I don’t think you can provide citations substantiating your assertions. We don’t know what documents are still allegedly classified, so there’s no way you can be this absolute.

    You are letting your animus of All-Things-Trump cloud your responses here.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/15/2022 @ 11:13 am

    In New York Times v. Central Intelligence Agency (2020), the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals found that even disclosure of classified information in a Presidential tweet did not declassify the information for public release, and that declassifications must follow established procedures:

    The Times filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) action seeking acknowledgement from the CIA that it was aware of the existence of records regarding a covert program of arming and training rebel forces in Syria. The CIA responded to the request with a Glomar response, stating that it could neither confirm nor deny the existence or nonexistence of such records. …….The court also held that President Trump’s tweet and statements to the Wall Street Journal interviewer did not declassify the existence of the covert program.

    From the opinion (footnotes omitted):

    …..Courts will “not infer official disclosure of information classified by the CIA from (1) widespread public discussion of a classified matter, (2) statements made by a person not authorized to speak for the Agency, or (3) release of information by another agency, or even by Congress.” The consequence of our holding in (Wilson v. CIA) is that just because the existence of classified activity may be inferred from publicly available information or from official statements, government waiver will not be found unless all legal criteria have been met.
    ………
    We have repeatedly advised that official disclosure is a “strict test,” and here, we agree with the district court that the President’s statements do not satisfy the “specificity” or “matching” requirements set forth in Wilson.
    ……..
    It is true that the President has broad authority to classify and declassify, derived from the President’s dual role “as head of the
    Executive Branch and as Commander in Chief” of the armed forces. The “authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security . . . flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President and exists quite apart from any
    explicit congressional grant.

    To make its declassification claim, the Times essentially recasts its “official acknowledgement” claim as one of “inferred declassification.” To prevail in any claim of declassification, inferred or otherwise, the Times’s must show: first, that President Trump’s statements are sufficiently specific; and second, that such statements subsequently triggered actual declassification. The first is easily disposed of because we have already found that the statements are 10 insufficiently specific to quell any “lingering doubts” about what they reference. The second requires further discussion.

    Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures……Moreover, the Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  553. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/15/2022 @ 11:13 am

    It would be good to turn down the temperature.

    Trump can turn down the temperature by not calling the search an “abuse in law enforcement” and a “sneak attack on democracy,” and talking about “anger” in the country. He could call on his supporters not conduct armed protests at FBI offices (as they did in Phoenix).

    But he won’t.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  554. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 10:04 am

    The thing is, Biden could claim that–by the powers of his mind, with no verbal or written directive necessary–all documents declassified by Trump at Mar-A-Lago were reclassified once they passed through the doors of the country club, and such a claim would be just as legitimate as Trump’s silly and far-fetched “standing order” nonsense.

    Trump might have obtained a legal opinion from the White House counsel that talking something to the residence area amounted to declassification, and he might have asked about that because things were guarded less carefully there.

    My opinion is, Trump gave this defense already last year, so there was no claim in the search warrant that any of the material he held onto was classified.

    Now here is something I remember reading but can’t find. It’s not in that Sunday New York Times front page story that first mentioned the signed statement. It is that Trump’s lawyer in June said all “problematical” material (that is, did not say that all “classified” material) was returned.

    I read somewhere that that phraseology – something about problematical material – had been used, but can’t find it where I thought it was. Maybe the word was not exactly “problematical.” The text of that statement in June has not been made public, so I can’t check for the exact wording..

    If they claimed that nothing Trump had was classified any longer, they couldn’t very well have said that all “classified” material had been returned. Unless he said “marked as classified”

    We’re getting hearsay and mendacious leaks (from some people. Like that absurd sounding nuclear nonsense) It could be a bit tricky. Trump isn’t exactly telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, either.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  555. Citation?

    Citation what? Show me the directive he made while president. Without such evidence, I’ll just assume he’s lying about that, too.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  556. #561

    When Trump says “the temperature has to be taken down”, what does he think that means? Is it the FBI backing off of him? or is it Trump agreeing that the legal process on the various investigations involving him have to work themselves out, and he himself not howling all over social media?

    Since Trump does not say — I would assume that, in the big orange’s mind, the cooling down has to be done by others and not himself. At least, not until investigations start getting suspended like he wants.

    Appalled (add97a)

  557. It is well known that the president speaking about something in public amounts to declassifying that information. Leaks from other people may not qualify, and in any case, do not amount to a waiver of the right to keep further details secret, although they may undermine any claim that it harms the national defense of the United States.

    The government has sometimes acted silly. When State Department cables were leaked by Wikileaks, people at the State Department were not able to look at or reference these “secret”” cables. Of course, there’s the argument that that compounds the matter, but mostly it’s a failure to evaluate.

    Another thing is, whether something is classified or not has nothing to do with the law, except as a guide as to what’s important to keep secret..

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/us/politics/trump-classified-documents.html

    … the classification system exists in parallel to separate criminal penalties Congress has imposed to protect security secrets.

    For example, the Espionage Act of 1917 — one of the laws cited in the search warrant — protects secrets that it defines as defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary. It makes no reference to classification status, and prosecutors in an Espionage Act case do not need to prove that anything was deemed classified.

    And converse, something being classified isn’t enough to get criminal liability a conviction. The Pentagon Papers are a good example of something classified whose release probably did not violate the Espionage Act.

    To get a conviction someone must have either intended to harm the defense interests of the United States, or it must actually harm the the defense of the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  558. By the way, this article has the actual decision that defeats Graham’s attempt to escape the Fulton County grand jury:

    https://www.gpb.org/news/2022/08/15/judge-says-sen-lindsey-graham-must-testify-in-fulton-county-grand-jury

    Our lawyers might be interested.

    Appalled (add97a)

  559. You don’t get to liberally label the riot on J6 as an “insurrection” and get your panties twisted when someone hyperbolically labels this as a “raid”.

    “Liberally” is your word, not mine, and I reject it. And why defend hyperbole?
    Literally, “raid”, as defined, implies a violent assault on the country club. Didn’t happen, and DeSantis has something to say about the use of the term.
    Insurrection is defined as “a violent uprising against an authority or government”, according to the Oxford Dictionary.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  560. “Turn down the temperature!” the arsonist said.

    nk (2d5747)

  561. The classification system was created by President Harry S Truman in 1948 (during World Wars I and II no such thing existed) and exists by virtue of his authority as Commander in Chief. It is entirely administrative and bureaucratic in nature. It is intended for the president’s subordinates.
    Lower level officials can have a derived power of classification and declassification.

    Only a few things are specifically secret by law – like details about how atomic weapons can be built, or names of secret agents, if still secret, and maybe things that have to do with codes and encryption.

    There is one law at least that makes reference to the system of classification and declassification:

    From the New York Times article above:

    Section 1924 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code, which makes the unauthorized retention or removal of classified material a crime. But that was not one of the laws that was listed in the search warrant as a focus of the investigation.

    Also from that article:

    Normally, presidents who want something declassified direct subordinates overseeing the department or agency with primary responsibility for the information to review the matter with an eye to making more of it public. But on rare occasions, presidents declassify something directly.

    For example, in 2004, President George W. Bush himself declassified a portion of his presidential daily intelligence briefing from August 2001 — a month before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — in which he had been warned: “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”

    ….Even if it is true that Mr. Trump had pronounced the documents declassified while he was in office, he clearly did not follow the regular procedures.

    ….Proponents of a strong view of presidential power have argued in other contexts that presidents are not personally bound by the rules and procedures that regulate the conduct of their subordinates in the executive branch — and that presidents can even disregard executive orders without first rescinding them. Others disagree with that vision of executive power.

    ….If there is no directive memorializing a decision to declassify information and conveying it to the rest of the government, the action would essentially have no consequence, as departments and agencies would continue to consider that information classified and so would continue to restrict access to documents containing it.

    “Hypothetical questions like ‘What if a president thinks to himself that something is declassified? Does that change its status?’ are so speculative that their practical meaning is negligible,” said Steven Aftergood, a secrecy specialist with the Federation of American Scientists.

    He added: “It’s a logical mess. The system is not meant to be deployed in such an arbitrary fashion.”

    boldface mine.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  562. Former FBI Counterintelligence Deputy Assistant Director Peter Strzok defended the FBI Monday morning on MSNBC.

    “Absolutely the American public should trust what the FBI is doing,”

    That assertion, coming from Strzok who can smell Trump supporters at WalMart, actually has the opposite effect on me.

    steveg (e3de1d)

  563. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 9:28 am

    How is the current J6 Committee illegitimate?

    The committee is called illegitimate because the minority party did not get to name its own members to the committee, as is the custom in all Congressional committees.

    The majority party may sometimes limit the number of minority members on a committee below what the balance in Congress would call for (this happens with the House Rules Committee) but it doesn’t purport to veto them.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  564. Trump might have obtained a legal opinion from the White House counsel that talking something to the residence area amounted to declassification, and he might have asked about that because things were guarded less carefully there.

    That is pure speculation, Sammy, but I would like to see Mr. Cipollone answer any questions the FBI may have.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  565. The government collected documents Trump was not supposed to keep….after pursuing the matter with a subpoena and through the legal process. Guess what? Comply with the legal request and there’s no “raid”. Guess what? Don’t ask the Georgia officials for access to find votes and there is no issue. Guess what? Show a modicum of concern for the officers getting bludgeoned on the Capitol steps and for the congressmen and staffers scurrying for cover and there is no issue. People want to burn the country down in support of a bad man. HE’S NOT WORTH IT. He will step on you the moment it is advantageous to do so. Cut the cord.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  566. she became a willing pawn and tool for Nanzi Pelosi. She’s arrogant and foolish as her constituents told her to move on and she gave them the finger. So they are retiring her with notice.

    An electing a tool who is about 50 IQ points dumber, just to show their master they’re loyal.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  567. Rel Peter Strzok, expert commentator:

    trzok said that using a subpoena would imply that the material in question is the property of the person subpoenaed so that’s why a search warrant was used.

    He said (I think) that in his time it would either be a voluntary surrender which would be negotiated, or a search warrant.

    This is not here but there is something similar here:

    https://archive.org/details/CNNW_20220809_190000_CNN_Newsroom_With_Alisyn_Camerota_and_Victor_Blackwell

    Can’t copy and paste. It is mentioned Strzok said a subpoena wss never on the table.

    https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/cnr/date/2022-08-09/segment/08

    PETER STRZOK, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF COUNTERINTELLIGENCE & AUTHOR: It’s a great question.

    I want to clear up a little bit of a misconception in the context of the subpoena. Classified information, by its nature, can cause damage to the national security.

    So anybody who has that, that doesn’t have authorization to have it, any time that’s stored somewhere it’s not allowed to be stored, issuing a subpoena only allows that third party who doesn’t have authorized access to continue to handle it, to collect it, to give it to their attorney, to give it to the mail room.

    So the government doesn’t use subpoenas to obtain classified information. Haven’t in my experience over 20 years.

    The government has two options. They can go to the person and get consent and say, you have what appears to be classified information, please, let us in, and get all of it.

    But the only other option is get a search warrant. You go to a judge, say, Your Honor, here’s an affidavit. We have probable cause to believe that there’s evidence of a crime, specifically in this case, that there’s classified information in the possession of somebody not authorized to hold it.

    This was before it was revealed that a subpoena had indeed been issued earlier.

    Besides that, there is a show cause order as to why documents should not be returned.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  568. The committee is called illegitimate because the minority party did not get to name its own members to the committee, as is the custom in all Congressional committees.

    Calling it such don’t make it so, Sammy. The Speaker has the sole authority to select members for special committees. Quote: “House committees are of three distinct types: (1) standing committees, whose members are elected by the House, (2) select committees (also called special committees), whose members are appointed by the Speaker…” It is a legitimate according the rules of the House.

    Enlisting the minority leader to pick members is a courtesy, a courtesy McCarthy abused when he selected potential suspects and/or witnesses like Jordan-Banks to serve. It’s one reason why the Speakership is such a plum for the majority party. The position has real power.

    The GOP had their chance to chance to agree to a 9/11-style bipartisan commission with equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans, but Trump didn’t want it, so his loyal political servants blew it up, in the hopes that there wouldn’t be an investigation or, if so, it would be one they could impugn because it was run by Democrats.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  569. NJRob: “Name calling is a violation of ToS. You don’t care.”

    AJ: “We never hear from Haiku or NJRob about what is right or wrong….only what’s good for the Right or bad for the Left…and in @545 what makes NeverTrump teary eyed.”

    This is not name calling….it’s simply an observation about what the two of you write about.

    AJ: “Firing Cheney instead of Trump just keeps the fetid stench alive…only bullies, thugs, lambs, and fluffers are wanted by the GOP. You have to wonder, which category are you?”

    Also, not name calling as it’s directed at the GOP. If pressed, you could also just pick “lamb”, as in how many grandmas have said, go be a lamb and get my shawl for me? Certainly few grandmas have been heard to say go be a fluffer…

    whembley: “I’m none of those things and I’d appreciate you’d lay down that wide brush you’re trying to paint there.”

    Cheney must be forced out to maintain the Big Lie and placate the Big Liar. I’ll also put you down for lamb…

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  570. She chose to become a pawn for the left.

    Lots of pawns in this battle, but she looks more like a queen in this one. No one cases what pawns do. Trump, for example, has no problem sacrificing his pawns. Also bishops, knights and [c]rooks.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  571. 580. Liz Cheney needed to be more of a superior to her opponent than she is in order to have a shot at winning. She can’t sound like an echo of anyone.

    And she needed to respond t the point that she was concentrating on something not important to Wyoming by saying that nobody is going to pay any attention to what her opponent says in Congress – she won’t even be able to lobby All she’s
    s going to do is argue nonsense.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  572. Here’s a surprise: (To me, anyway. I would like to think it isn’t a complete surprise to the CIA and the NSA.)

    Oil prices tumbled Monday after China’s central bank unexpectedly cut rates after data showed economic activity slowed broadly in July, including consumer spending and factory output, reigniting concerns of a global downturn.

    Signs of further cooling in the world’s second-largest economy, already under strain from China’s zero-covid policy and a real estate crisis, alarmed energy markets. The prospect of lower demand sent oil prices sliding 3.2 percent — pushing West Texas Intermediate crude to $89 a barrel.

    Near the end of the article, there’s this light note: “The boycotts have have raised concerns that the property market in China could collapse, undermining the country’s financial system and dealing a blow to the the global economy.” (Home buyers in China are refusing to pay mortgages until their homes are actually completed).

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  573. The double “have” is the Post’s mistake, not mine, but I should have corrected it, anyway.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  574. Liz Chaney is on the side of the angels in the conflict with Trump. But she has given herself no chance with her constituents — mostly because she did not grow up in Wyoming and has hardly lived in Wyoming. In a sitaution like that, it’s hard for her to demonstrate she has been good for the state.

    Funny thing — GOP candidate H. Walker is in much the same position here. He’s spent his post UGa career living out of state. He may lose because of that. And then, there is Dr. Oz, who will probably lose to a sick man who can’t campaign,

    So, it’s not just an issue that afflicts NeverTrump folks.

    Appalled (3ce75f)

  575. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/14/2022 @ 8:19 pm

    Hillary asked, “What difference at this point does it make?” Well, that was a difference.

    She was referring to the question of why she didn’t correct the
    talking points” that were given to Susan Rice that said the attack on the Mission in Benghazi was spontaneous.

    She did correct the description of the location as a consulate Said that was wrong.

    Of course, we know of this only indirectly because she left no written records or email of her input.

    I can only retrieve the following by using Bing, not Google: (something I previously posted a number of times) It’s in number 78 here:

    https://patterico.com/2020/08/04/my-little-aloha-sweetie-for-vice-president

    Some typos correcteed:

    people in the State Department knew they [the talking points] were wrong because they had been in constant contact with the mission (not a consulate as Hillary Clinton was quick to correct) in Benghazi, and they knew there had been no demonstration, but only a surprise attack. And by the way, the attackers had inside information on security, and knew Stevens would flee to a firetrap safe house, which they set on fire.

    Adam Schiff said on Face the Nation on Sunday, October 25, 2015, that Hillary Clinton (and that presumably also would go for Susan Rice) would have been justly criticized if she had contradicted the CIA (that is, told the truth about the fact that there was no demonstration in Benghazi.)

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-october-25-trump-christie-nunes-schiff

    And we did an investigation, that Devin was a part of that, in the intelligence committee, that looked at, frankly, each of these conflicting streams of intelligence as they came in. The early claims by Ansar al-Sharia responsibility that were very quickly followed with human intelligence, signals intelligence, open source reporting, that there was a protest. It wasn’t until about eight to ten days after the events where we actually got the tapes from the compound that we could see quite demonstrably on those tapes that there had been no protests. But it was the — the considered judgment, the assessment of the intelligence experts for that week until we got those tapes, that there had been a protest. And that turned out to be wrong.

    But to criticize Secretary Clinton for relying on the best of intelligence that we had at the time seemed to be wholly inappropriate. Had she had spoken, frankly, in contradiction of what our intelligence agencies were telling her, that might be something to criticize. But the fact that, as she related, and as Ambassador Rice and others related, the information at the time, it was the best information we had. And the fact that that was wrong initially doesn’t change the fact that they were reflecting the best that we knew at the time.

    That was, of course, not the BEST INFORMATION but the MOST HIGHLY RATED information – which is not the same thing.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  576. That was my first awareness of Adam Schiff’s careful mendacity.

    She might have been justly criticized had she contracted the CIA!

    Now her reasons were either that she didn’t want to make any waves, or more important, that she knew that the then Saudi Chief of Intelligence, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, has most likely engineered the murder of the Ambassador, and she didn’t dare undermine him because he had had also murdered Vincent Foster and gotten President Clinton to agree to cover it up.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  577. *contradicted the CIA.

    That whole episode – her not correcting the talking points – was what Hillary Clinton said didn’t make a difference now because the important point was that 4 people working for the U.S. government were killed in Benghazi.

    Ambassador Stevens was there to try to prevent arms for the Islamic Syrian rebels from leaving Benghazi but he failed at that, but it was later held up in Turkey. In the meantime the U.S which was in competition with Saudi Arabia and Qatar to gather up Quaddafi’s stored arms was chased out of Libya.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  578. It is well known that the president speaking about something in public amounts to declassifying that information.

    Not according to the Second Circuit.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  579. (Home buyers in China are refusing to pay mortgages until their homes are actually completed).

    The property market in China was a bit of a Ponzi scheme.

    Xi is trying not to a have the “wrong” people left holding the bag.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  580. Trump Claims FBI Seized Three of His Passports During Mar-a-Lago Raid: ‘This is An Assault!’

    Former President Donald Trump announced that the FBI confiscated his passports when the bureau conducted its search of his Mar-a-Lago residence last week.

    “Wow! In the raid by the FBI of Mar-a-Lago, they stole my three Passports (one expired), along with everything else,” Trump posted to Truth Social. “This is an assault on a political opponent at a level never seen before in our Country. Third World!”

    Trump’s claim comes about a week after the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago and seized several boxes of “top secret” materials that the former president previously claimed he did not possess. This all follows Trump as he continues to stoke vitriol against federal law enforcement with shifting attempts to defend his handling of classified materials.

    “There has never been a time like this where law enforcement has been used to break into the house of a former president of the United States, and there is tremendous anger in the country — at a level that has never been seen before, other than during very perilous times,” Trump said to Fox News Digital. It was in that same interview that Trump said the national temperature “has to be brought down,” ignoring his myriad of attacks on the FBI and the Department of Justice.

    The Daily Mail notes that Trump “likely has a regular blue passport issued to U.S. citizens and a red ‘diplomatic’ passport issued for official government travel. He would have received a diplomatic passport as president.” Without a passport, Trump would have difficulty traveling outside of the U.S.’ – mediate.com

    Attorney General Barney Fife strikes again.

    DCSCA (b497b6)

  581. …… Strzok who can smell Trump supporters at WalMart

    I daresay finding Trump supporters at Walmart shouldn’t be too hard without their smell.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  582. Why does Trump need two passports?

    Appalled (d5914b)

  583. Liz Chaney is on the side of the angels in the conflict with Trump.

    … who voted with Trump 96% of the time, which makes her an agent of the Devil for Never Trumpers. Daughter Darth is just another NEOCON to fall on her light saber.

    DCSCA (b497b6)

  584. @596. Folks who travel a lot have pages added- VISAs stapled in the back and so forth– they get bulky– and once filled a second passport usually issued. As a POTUS/ex-POTUS, he may have still had a valid diplomatic PP, too. There’s nothing sinister about it. Just bureaucratic.

    DCSCA (b497b6)

  585. “An electing a tool who is about 50 IQ points dumber, just to show their master they’re loyal.”

    Don’t know anything about that woman, but do know Cheney is horrible. As for IQ… folks who are up to 20 or 30 pts above the average are gifted with something useful. Anything higher than that, there is usually some mental instability and “crazy” involved that offsets any positives.

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c)

  586. Trump claims FBI ‘stole’ his passports during Mar-a-Lago raid

    Former President Donald Trump said Monday that FBI agents “stole” his passports last week when they raided his residence at Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Fla.

    “Wow! In the raid by the FBI of Mar-a-Lago, they stole my three Passports (one expired), along with everything else,” Trump wrote in a post on Truth Social.

    “This is an assault on a political opponent at a level never seen before in our Country. Third World!” the 45th president added.
    ………

    1. So much for bringing the temperature down.

    2. Title 22 Chapter I Subchapter F Part 51 Subpart A § 51.7: Passport property of the U.S. Government.

    (a) A passport at all times remains the property of the United States and must be returned to the U.S. Government upon demand.

    (b) Law enforcement authorities who take possession of a passport for use in an investigation or prosecution must return the passport to the Department on completion of the investigation and/or prosecution.

    Sad!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  587. In New York Times v. Central Intelligence Agency (2020), the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals found that even disclosure of classified information in a Presidential tweet did not declassify the information for public release,

    What – you can’t retweet it?

    I think it means that the CIA can still neither confirm nor deny the existence of something

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11410380261674958938&q=New+York+Times+v.+Central+Intelligence+Agency&hl=en&as_sdt=6,33&as_vis=1

    …. {The New York Times] brought this Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) action seeking acknowledgement from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that it was aware of the existence of records regarding a covert program of arming and training rebel forces in Syria. Claiming that such a disclosure was not required under two FOIA exemptions, the CIA responded to the request with a so-called Glomar response stating that the Agency could neither confirm nor deny the existence or nonexistence of such records. The Times then filed a complaint asserting that certain statements made by the President and another individual precluded use of the Glomar response. [The District court held hat] the relevant statements did not strip the CIA of the two claimed exemptions because the statements did not officially acknowledge or inadvertently declassify the existence of such a program. We AFFIRM….

    …As we will explain, in light of the Wilson test, the relevant statements did not officially acknowledge the existence of a covert program, much less the existence of corresponding, specific records.

    A statement declassifies only what it says, but it does declassify what it says.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  588. The passports were probably not covered by the search warrant, but I don’t know if he can get back the expired one.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  589. @602. Yes, he can. Unless it has a lousy photo. 😉

    Have a drawer full of expired passports.

    DCSCA (b497b6)

  590. In New York Times v. Central Intelligence Agency (2020), the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals found that even disclosure of classified information in a Presidential tweet did not declassify the information for public release,

    What – you can’t retweet it?

    I assume you can at your own risk.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  591. DCSCA:

    Your comment on Chaney’s voting record is like asking Mrs. Lincoln how she liked the play.

    Appalled (8393fe)

  592. Trump might have obtained a legal opinion from the White House counsel that talking something to the residence area amounted to declassification, and he might have asked about that because things were guarded less carefully there.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 12:07 pm

    That is pure speculation, Sammy,

    Yes it is, but I can see something like that happening – and it’s about the only way it could happen.

    I don’t know whether Trump would make something up out of whole cloth, so there might be something to it. Quoting somebody else who made something up out of whole cloth, yes, he would do and does that, but doing so himself is another matter. He doesn’t like to do that.

    but I would like to see Mr. Cipollone answer any questions the FBI may have.

    If Trump explains things that way. There’s attorney client privilege, but somewhere something like that must be memorialized.

    My suspicion is that Trump raised that “automatic declassification by taking it away from standard storage” defense before.

    The only thing is, that statement of declassification might itself be classified. Except that if it was in Mar-a-Lago, not any more.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  593. FBI Search of Mar-a-Lago Achieved a DOJ Top Priority: Get the Documents
    ………
    Mr. Trump on Sunday asserted on his social-media platform that the Federal Bureau of Investigation took material protected by attorney-client privilege and asked for the material back. The Justice Department has set up what is known as a “filter team,” a separate group of agents and lawyers to review the materials and determine whether any of them are protected by such privilege before they will be provided to investigators, according to people familiar with the team.
    ……..
    A 2010 order by former President Barack Obama prescribed general rules for declassifying documents. The order, which remains in effect, instructed the heads of executive agencies to create the specific processes for declassifying documents. Some of the regulations laying out these processes are themselves confidential, said (Dan Meyer, a national security lawyer at Tully Rinckey).

    A federal grand jury is examining the circumstances around how the boxes of documents reached Mar-a-Lago either during Mr. Trump’s presidential term or as he left office. Only after what is likely to be a lengthy assessment would prosecutors reach any determination on whether to seek charges, former prosecutors say.
    ……..
    The documents were first taken from Mar-a-Lago to the FBI’s field office in Miami, but the investigation is being run from Washington, D.C., according to people familiar with the matter.
    ………

    Trump should have issued a new Executive Order allowing him to declassify documents without going through the agency review process. A new EO would have allowed him to declassify documents by saying “I declassify” three times and clicking his heels.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  594. I don’t know whether Trump would make something up out of whole cloth……

    Comedy Gold!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  595. If the reporting is correct the DOJ had been trying to get these documents back prior to the raid. If the documents were declassified by Trump why didn’t he provide a list of all documents along with a statement they were now declassified?

    Also, if he felt they were public information why did he comply with instructions to lock them up?

    Time123 (59ff6f)

  596. Re; Crazy and true

    The maybe crazy thing that is correct about the search of Mar-a-Lago is that I think it was not part of any plan. That’s not really crazy, but some people are looking for more.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  597. Trump maybe was willing to supply anything the National Archives specifically asked for but he didn’t want to give them an inventory.

    He didn’t say anything of that was public – he’s claiming some of it is covered by attorney client privilege and also some by executive privilege.

    Things can be declassified but still not public, at least until they’re requested under the Freedom of Information Act. And even if they can’t find any exemption, they can stall.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  598. I don’t know whether Trump would make something up out of whole cloth……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/15/2022 @ 1:23 pm

    Comedy Gold!

    He has no way of judging the plausibility of anything he makes up himself, so he doesn’t do it.

    He relies on what other people make up out of whole cloth — and often drops assertions if they don’t fly.

    Now here, about declassification, Trump is not quoting any legal theory anybody else said. It came from him.

    So I think there must be some background to the claim.

    If not, it’s meaningless.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  599. How to classify/declassify national security documents.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  600. @605. It runs in Daughter Darth’s family; lest you forget it was Daddy Darth who nearly shot somebody’s face off. 😉

    DCSCA (0c6af0)

  601. 441.

    5. Trump claims that Obama took 33 million documents.

    6. That is true, except that it is stored in a National Archives facility in rural Illinois.

    Not in rural Illinois, but outside Chicago.

    Obama took a lot of documents, promising to digitize them and make them available online (and 95% of them were digital in the first place) but he, or his The Obama Foundation, hasn’t done that, despite all the money available to do so, and meanwhile FOIA requests are backed up, as they usually are.

    They are not technically in his custody, but nobody else, except his designees, and maybe also the current president of the United States and his designees has access to them.

    From a column by James Bovard in today’s New York Post:

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/14/theres-no-sainthood-for-obama-national-archives-in-trump-fbi-raid-uproar

    ….Almost all the media coverage of this controversy has ignored or downplayed the dismal failure of the Presidential Records Act to reveal presidents’ records. A Washington Post analysis of the dispute on the 30 million pages conceded, “As with many issues of government transparency and document-sharing, it’s true that this is not great! You often have to wait years for requested documents, and this appears to be no exception.”

    But journalists should be outraged by this perpetual stonewalling. Barack and Michelle Obama collected a $65 million advance for their memoirs, but Americans are still effectively prohibited from seeing his official records.

    The Presidential Records Act requires people seeking information to file a Freedom of Information Act request. As Politico reported in March, “At many presidential libraries, the queues for processing FOIAs stretch for years,” and requests “involving classified information can take more than a decade.”

    Obama boasted he had “the most transparent administration in history.” In reality, the Obama administration was as devious as the Nixon administration when it came to government secrecy.

    In 2011, Obama’s Justice Department formally proposed to permit federal agencies to falsely claim that FOIA-requested documents did not exist….

    ….Obama’s lawyers claimed a new veto power that turned FOIA into a travesty. White House counsel Gregory Craig quietly notified all federal agencies in 2009 that “all documents and records that implicate the White House in any way are said to have ‘White House equities’ and must receive an extra layer of review, not by agency FOIA experts, but by the White House itself,” a congressional report noted. Politico observed in 2016 that in some cases, White House FOIA “referrals have led to years of delay.”

    The Obama Foundation and the National Archives talk about digitizing those 30 million pages as if it were an almost unfathomable labor of Hercules. It took me less than five minutes searching online to find a Kodak scanner that can handle 150,000 pages a day. Buy 10 of those scanners, and the 30 million pages could easily be digitized within a month. The scanners cost $20,000 each, but the Obama Foundation has $560 million in assets and the top three employees receive more than $500,000 a year. It could easily find the money for the scanners if disclosure were the goal.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  602. @569

    Citation what? Show me the directive he made while president. Without such evidence, I’ll just assume he’s lying about that, too.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 11:47 am

    Ok, so you’re going to presume the worst possible outcome?

    Cool. I think we done here on this track.

    whembly (b770f8)

  603. “In no time, the Washington Post claimed the raid was aimed at finding Trump Administration documents relating to “nuclear secrets.” The now-familiar desired effect was achieved. “Presidential historian” Michael Beschloss quickly tweeted a picture of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, noting that in the past revealing such nuclear secrets had led to the death penalty. Former CIA Director Michael Hayden, previously known for comparing Trump’s border detention facilities to Auschwitz and falsely claiming the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian “disinformation,” replied: “Sounds about right.” That is, without any proof, it was legitimate to imagine that the former president of the United States, like the Rosenbergs, should be executed for passing nuclear secrets.

    So, as intended, the Justice Department and FBI leaks touched off a round of intended liberal hysteria of the sort we saw during Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into alleged Russian collusion with Trump’s 2016 campaign aimed at disguising government misdeeds or overreach.

    Despite Garland’s pious assertions, we know the modus operandi of selective leaking from the career of Andrew McCabe. The disgraced former interim FBI director admitted to lying to federal investigators about his role in leaking to the Wall Street Journal. And the inspector general found McCabe lied on several other occasions about his efforts to leak to and massage the media. At this point, we should assume that “sources tell us” and “according to unnamed sources” are indications that the sources are Justice Department and FBI contacts who were given the green light to manipulate the news by their superiors.

    Let’s put Garland’s decision to approve the raid on Mar-a-Lago in the context of the past seven years. The Justice Department and FBI in 2016 interfered in a presidential election in two major ways: They exonerated Hillary Clinton’s clearly illegal use of a private server and her destruction of subpoenaed data. The FBI hired Clinton operative Christopher Steele as an informant and gave its “Crossfire Hurricane” imprimatur to the entire Russian collusion hoax, feeding a 2016 left-wing mantra that Trump was a Russian “asset.”

    In 2015, we learned that candidate Hillary Clinton, as Barack Obama’s secretary of state, had emailed classified government materials using her own private server, likely as a way of skirting Freedom of Information Act requirements.

    In the thick of the 2016 campaign a year later, FBI Director James Comey reported that Clinton had, in fact, broken the law. Yet he assumed a role of federal attorney that was not his own, deciding Clinton’s wrongdoing should not lead to an indictment.

    In that improper role, Comey, not U.S. attorneys, declined to hold Clinton accountable. We learned later that Attorney General Loretta Lynch had met secretly on an airport tarmac (“a brief, casual, social meeting”) with Bill Clinton.

    Somewhere within this tangle of lies (both said they met only to talk about their grandchildren, not about whether the Justice Department would charge Hillary Clinton), we learned: 1) Lynch abdicated her role and simply let Comey play the role of investigator and prosecutor, and 2) Hillary Clinton had “bleached” thousands of emails, some of them under federal subpoena, and destroyed her communication devices and records—all federal felonies.

    Trump won the election in 2016, but he never controlled the federal government. For 22 months, at a cost of $40 million, Robert Mueller investigated whether Trump had “colluded” with the Russians to take the White House. Ironically, there was ample evidence to show that Hillary Clinton may, in fact, have done exactly that. “

    —- Victor Davis Hanson

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/14/why-merrick-garland-is-losing-the-people/

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c)

  604. Frank Figliuzzi

    It’s possible that Trump retained his red “government official” passport, and a black “diplomatic” passport, which he no longer has a right to. Those would be “government records” seizable pursuant to the warrant.

    If that’s true, Trump has done nothing to lower the political temperature.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  605. @611

    Trump maybe was willing to supply anything the National Archives specifically asked for but he didn’t want to give them an inventory.

    He didn’t say anything of that was public – he’s claiming some of it is covered by attorney client privilege and also some by executive privilege.

    Things can be declassified but still not public, at least until they’re requested under the Freedom of Information Act. And even if they can’t find any exemption, they can stall.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/15/2022 @ 1:35 pm

    The thing that people get riled up is that “the people” owns all those documents, and it’s the PRA that governs the management of those documents.

    The dispute may just be this fundamental belief that Trump owns all the documents, or at least control the access to these documents (which I do think he’s wrong) and it’s simply the PRA folks is simply wanted to get the documents back.

    However, nothing has disabused me of the notion that this was extremely abusive and I refuse to believe that the FBI/DOJ/PRA folks exhausted all options.

    Hence, why, I think the PRA documents (classified or not) was a pretext for the J6 investigation. Those interested in that investigation really needs some concrete evidence of Trump’s state of mind to buttress the DOJ’s efforts to indict Trump.

    whembly (b770f8)

  606. The attack on Salman Rushdie was probably what is called a “guided” attack.

    He is reported to have been in “direct contact” with Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, but they didn’t supply him with any weapons or physical help – just advice and information.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  607. Ok, so you’re going to presume the worst possible outcome?

    Given Trump’s track record of lying, yes, it’s a fair assumption. Presuming his statements false until proven true works quite well.
    Show the directive.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  608. What’s the motivation of blatantly lying, and then bragging that he lied about it afterwards, about Romney failing to pay his taxes if not to p1ss off Republicans?(“Well, it worked, didn’t it?”) Like I said above, why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?
    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/14/2022 @ 10:59 pm

    They don’t, but neither do the two distinct incidents — the lie and the bragging — have to have the same motivation. I assume the only motivation for the bragging was to be a d1ck, and at least the principle motivation for the lie was to sway the election. I read your exchange with aphrael as being about the motivation for the lie, not for the bragging.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  609. Trump owns all the documents, or at least control the access to these documents (which I do think he’s wrong)

    No, he’s pretty close to being right about that (controlling access, for most people anyway) at least for the first 12 years after his presidency.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  610. I think the motive for Harry Reid admitting the truth about the lie about Mitt Romney was to stop the press from continually writing about the fact that he probably lied:

    He admitted it (almost)

    END OF STORY.

    No more investigations.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  611. @621

    Show the directive.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 2:08 pm

    He did issue an EO prior to leaving the Whitehouse ordering the agencies to declassify all things regarding Hurricane Crossfire (the Russia Hoax) and it’s still a standing order. I’m assumption is that he took those documents with him to MAL and it’s what the warrant referenced to justify the raid.

    Furthermore, I’ve explained to you that as the ultimate classification authority, he *could* announce to his staff to “put those in boxes and move it to my Florida home”.

    So, if you are going to presume guilt from the bat here, I’m not sure if we’re going to get much further until we get more information.

    FWIW, I hope this dies down and becomes old news as I’m frustrated by the Trump support’s agitation that the Trump must run again.

    whembly (b770f8)

  612. @623

    No, he’s pretty close to being right about that (controlling access, for most people anyway) at least for the first 12 years after his presidency.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/15/2022 @ 2:10 pm

    What do you mean Sammy?

    I know that former presidents get fundings for new office, staff, SCIF, security, Secret Service details and all that jazz. But, I’m pretty sure that the Archivist has statutory authority to all the Presidential records (even privilege documents).

    Again, I’d like to reiterate, I don’t think we know the full story and we’re getting cagey info from the government and a political response from the Trump team.

    whembly (b770f8)

  613. More on Gascon:

    To force Gascón into a recall race, the campaign seeking his ouster needed to gather 566,857 valid signatures by mid-July, a figure reflecting 10% of the people eligible to vote in the election cycle when Gascón won office in November 2020. The L.A. County Registrar’s office said Monday that only about 520,000 of the signatures submitted were valid.

    While the campaign actually submitted roughly 715,000 signatures, a number were inevitably going to be disqualified if they were signed by people who were not properly registered to vote in L.A. County or if a registered voter’s signature didn’t match the one on file with the county Registrar.

    In California, most recall drives see between 20% and 30% of collected signatures disqualified, according to Joshua Spivak, an expert on recall elections and senior research fellow at UC Berkeley Law School’s California Constitution Center.
    ……..
    But the recall campaign’s own fortunes muddied in recent months. In mid-July, the Registrar’s office performed verification tests on a batch of 28,000 signatures collected by the campaign and counted only 78% of those signatures as valid. If that verification rate was applied to the entire petition effort, the recall would have failed.

    In early August, recall organizers began arguing that the review process was unfair. Former Deputy Dist. Atty. Marian Thompson, who has a background in election law, sent a letter to the L.A. County Board of Supervisors claiming the Registrar’s office was using out-of-date processes to verify signatures. She complained that they had been barred from sending observers to monitor the verification process.

    Thompson also described the 22% rejection rate as “shockingly large,” even though San Francisco election officials rejected roughly 34% of all petitions submitted during the process that led to Boudin’s recall, according to Spivak.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  614. DOJ refuses to release affidavit.

    AG Barney Fife is on the job!

    DCSCA (0c6af0)

  615. TikTok possibly contains worse misinformation than Facebook or Twitter ever did. It’s much harder anyway, in principle, to examine video and audio than text.

    The Chinese owned company is more careful about what appears in the United States. They have also stopped removing so much some material that conflicts with the position of the government of China.

    there are some really bad things circulating

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/business/media/on-tiktok-election-misinformation.html

    But the service’s troubling track record during foreign elections — including in France and Australia this year — does not bode well for the United States, experts said.

    TikTok has been “failing its first real test” in Africa in recent weeks, Odanga Madung, a researcher for the nonprofit Mozilla Foundation, wrote in a report. The app struggled to tamp down on disinformation ahead of last week’s presidential election in Kenya. Mr. Madung cited a post on TikTok that included an altered image of one candidate holding a knife to his neck and wearing a blood-streaked shirt, with a caption that described him as a murderer. The post garnered more than half a million views before it was removed….

    Now some of the dtuff the New York Times considers misinformation may not be misinformation, or at least the offical version isn;’ true eithrr.

    TikTok has also struggled to contain nonpolitical misinformation in the United States. Health-related myths about Covid-19 vaccines and masks run rampant, as do rumors and falsehoods about diets, pediatric conditions and gender-affirming care for transgender people.

    Gender affirming care?

    Meanwhile somebody attemoted to imitate Alex Jones:

    A video making the bogus claim that the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, in May had been staged drew more than 74,000 views before TikTok removed it.

    Here’s a story about some people arguing back on TikTok

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/29/well/live/tiktok-misinformation.html

    Another story:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/technology/tiktok-china-washington.html

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  616. He did issue an EO prior to leaving the Whitehouse ordering the agencies to declassify all things regarding Hurricane Crossfire (the Russia Hoax) and it’s still a standing order.

    Trump submitted an EO to declassify “Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation”, which related specifically to a binder of materials that came from DOJ to the WS on 12/30/2022, and which has nothing to do with hoax “standing order” that was recently communicated by his media lackey, John Solomon.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  617. In New York, the petition to put Lee Zeldin on a third line, failed because many signatures were photocopies, but they say very few were duplicates.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  618. Trump owns all the documents, or at least control the access to these documents (which I do think he’s wrong)

    No, he’s pretty close to being right about that (controlling access, for most people anyway) at least for the first 12 years after his presidency.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/15/2022 @ 2:10 pm

    The Presidential Records Act (PRA), among other things:

    Defines and states public ownership of the records.

    Establishes a process for restriction and public access to these records. Specifically, the PRA allows for public access to presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years. The PRA also establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent administrations to obtain special access to records that remain closed to the public, following a 30‑day notice period to the former and current Presidents.

    Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office

    Source

    So Trump doesn’t own any presidential documents, they are owned by the Federal Government (on behalf of the people of the United States). See also Guidance on Presidential Records from the National Archives and Records Administration – 2020

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  619. Typos corrected

    I got polled today, apparently by a group hired by the DeSantis campaign in Florida (my guess) and the person didn’t stop until I told her for the second time that I was not in Florida. I don’t have a Florida area code. The poll taker also neglected to offer the choice of somewhat (approve or disapprove) but would accept that answer.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/14/2022 @ 12:00 pm

    Having given it more thought, I’m inclined to think this poll was commissioned by a House candidate, both because it was amateurish (they didn’t check for residency in Florida — they even used random digit dialing that included non-Florida area codes) and the lack of a prompt for somewhat – plus the fact that it included a House race. They only asked if someone worked for amedia company — I guess they were going to ask later about what they watched.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  620. Yes, rump doesn’t own what belongs to the federal government but an ex-president can control acccess – the FOIA is a pretty much of a joke according to what James Bovard wrote.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  621. The New York Times endorsed the most strong standard incumbents – liberal but not marginal

    This actually has the closest thing to a map I’ve seen.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/13/opinion/new-york-congress-jerrold-nadler.html

    Would you believe that for the 10th CD its second choice was Mondaire Jones?

    In the printed paper three districts were all one long editorial

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  622. MAGA Republicans boo candidate opposed to abolishing the FBI for searching Mar-a-Lago during Trumpy Senate midterms debate in New Hampshire

    ……..Senate hopeful Kevin Smith (was) booed during a debate at which New Hampshire Republicans tried to out MAGA one another.

    Smith stepped in it Sunday, the New Hampshire Journal reported, by not being as reactionary as attendees of the Trump-aligned Government Integrity Project gathering would have liked.

    “I believe at its core, it’s a good institution, and I believe there are fine men and women who want to do their jobs and want to protect us,” Smith said of the FBI. The audience audibly disapproved of the moderate position.

    Two of the other candidates vying to challenge incumbent Democratic Sen. Maggie Hassan this fall — failed 2020 Senate hopeful Don Bolduc and first-time candidate and crypto currency advocate Bruce Fenton — leaned into the outrage Donald Trump has been stoking online ever since federal agents retrieved highly sensitive documents from his Florida home.

    “It’s time to abolish the FBI and replace it with nothing,” Felton told the crowd.

    “You shouldn’t be able to raid a former president’s house at any time,” Bolduc offered in his defense of the embattled former president.
    ……….

    “You shouldn’t be able to raid a former president’s house at any time,” Bolduc offered…..

    I’m sure Joe Biden agrees.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  623. Fox News host wonders aloud whether Trump could have tried to sell highly classified material to the Russians or Saudis
    ……..
    Speaking during a live broadcast on Fox News Sunday, Eric Shawn raised one possibility about what Trump could have done with the classified documents the FBI found during its search of Trump’s Florida residence.

    “And more questions are being raised this morning. Did former President Trump try to sell or share the highly classified material to the Russians or to the Saudis or others?” Shawn asked.

    “Or were the documents innocently mishandled and stored because he thought he had a legal right to have them?” he added.
    ………
    Shawn’s comments came amid a wave of pushback from some Fox News hosts against the former president and his allies over the Mar-a-Lago raid.
    ……..

    I don’t think Trump would sell classified information to Russia, China, Saudi Arabia or whomever. He might trade it for business advantages, but not sell.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  624. Soooo much transparency!

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c)

  625. “Second effort to force Los Angeles D.A. George Gascón into recall election fails”

    The disease and rot are deep in LA County.

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c)

  626. Now, here’s an interesting question about Executive Privilege.

    Let’s say that a president gets advice on some highly fraught issue (e.g. responding to BLM) and this advice is minuted for later review. These minutes then become part of the Presidential Papers or whatnot. They aren’t national security matters, but still highly sensitive. Who has access to them?

    Obviously it could be a problem if the next president could come along and “revoke” privilege and release them to the Congress or the press (birm). If, instead, they were sequestered for a period of years and then had restricted access, it would be far less so.

    Looking at the Wikipedia article, I see that it’s a mix.

    Specifically, the Presidential Records Act:

    * Defines and states public ownership of the records.
    * Places the responsibility for the custody and management of incumbent presidential records with the President.
    * Allows the incumbent president to dispose of records that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value, once he or she has obtained the views of the Archivist of the United States on the proposed disposal in writing.
    * Establishes a process for restriction and public access to these records. Specifically, the PRA allows for public access to presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years. The PRA also establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent administrations to obtain special access to records that remain closed to the public, following a 30‑day notice period to the former and current Presidents.
    * Requires that Vice-Presidential records are to be treated in the same way as presidential records.
    * Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.
    * Establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent Administrations to obtain “special access” to records from NARA that remain closed to the public, following a privilege review period by the former and incumbent Presidents; the procedures governing such special access requests continue to be governed by the relevant provisions of E.O. 13489
    * Establishes preservation requirements for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts: any individual creating Presidential records must not use non-official electronic messaging accounts unless that individual copies an official account as the message is created or forwards a complete copy of the record to an official messaging account. (A similar provision in the Federal Records Act applies to federal agencies.)
    * Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records.
    * Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records.

    I can see why Trump might have been inclined to keep some things. Not a lot of protection against a truly hostile successor.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  627. Obviously it could be a problem if the next president could come along and “revoke” privilege and release them to the Congress or the press (birm). If, instead, they were sequestered for a period of years and then had restricted access, it would be far less so.

    There is an exception for that:

    The PRA also establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent administrations to obtain special access to records that remain closed to the public, following a 30‑day notice period to the former and current Presidents.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  628. “Second effort to force Los Angeles D.A. George Gascón into recall election fails”

    There is a generic problem in CA signature drives. Due to the huge numbers of signatures required, it is necessary to hire signature gatherers, who are paid per signature. This injects several opportunities for mischief.

    1. The signature gatherer may add bogus signatures to be paid more. It’s really hard to check if Joe Green really lives at 123 2nd Avenue, or if he does, is that his signature? You only find out at the end of the process.

    2. Opponents of the petition may seek out signature gatherers and add their own bogus signature. Same problems. Sometimes this is orchestrated by an opposition group, which may or may not be illegal.

    3. Less likely, but possible: The signature checkers may be biased ans some of them may shade their signature checking towards “doesn’t match.” Their supervisors should audit these; not sure if the do, or care.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  629. A suit by an LA County city, claiming honest services fraud might be a way forward.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  630. The disease and rot are deep in LA County.

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c) — 8/15/2022 @ 3:23 pm

    It has less to do with the “rot” than the recall campaign not obtaining enough valid signatures. The recall campaign submitted approx. 715,000 signatures. The top range of 30% of the signatures being invalid left them with 500,500 valid signatures, below the required number of 566,857. They should have gathered twice the requirement, or 1.13 million, to ensure it qualified. That shouldn’t have been too hard to do so in a county with 7.8 million adults.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  631. A suit by an LA County city, claiming honest services fraud might be a way forward.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/15/2022 @ 3:42 pm

    I don’t know if a city can sue another governmental agency for honest services fraud, it involves bribery and fiduciary duties. It is generally a crime (18 U.S.C. §1346) pursued by the federal government. AFAIK there is no state law.

    Good luck.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  632. There is a generic problem in CA signature drives. Due to the huge numbers of signatures required, it is necessary to hire signature gatherers, who are paid per signature. This injects several opportunities for mischief.

    1. The signature gatherer may add bogus signatures to be paid more. It’s really hard to check if Joe Green really lives at 123 2nd Avenue, or if he does, is that his signature? You only find out at the end of the process.

    2. Opponents of the petition may seek out signature gatherers and add their own bogus signature. Same problems. Sometimes this is orchestrated by an opposition group, which may or may not be illegal.

    It’s not just California-remember the recent Michigan ballot petition scandal from a couple of months ago?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  633. They tried. It’s hard for several reasons. You pay maybe $5/signature, so your efforts are limited and you opponents are willing to sign like crazy people to cost you money. Clueless people sign even though they live in Nevada. More $

    You have a fixed time limit that isn’t all that long. It is set the same for all districts with 50,000 or more registered voters. This “district” (LA County) had 5.7 million registered voters.

    Ten percent of REGISTERED VOTERS is a lot. It may be more than actually voted for the candidate. It is often more than 20% of those who actually voted for all candidates.

    Only registered voters can sign, and their signature needs to match their most current registration.

    When the time limit is up, put hand in what you have and hope they validate your signatures fairly.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  634. Good luck.

    Yeah, well, like most everyone Trump hires, IANAL.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  635. Funny thing about signatures in California elections. If you are trying to get on the ballot as a candidate, you need to submit a certain number of signatures with your declaration of candidacy. They can all be invalid, and you get time later to make that up or pay a fee in-lieu-of. So the first thing you do is get everyone on the party committee to sign your candidacy documents. Your spouse, kids, whatever. Once you have the basic number, you can file, then they’ll give you time to “correct” or pay the money.

    Or at least it worked that way in 1994.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  636. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDnO9XDnYv8

    Isn’t this sweet? Quite a contrast to a runway in Kabul. There are 13 dead American military personnel he killed a year ago who’d like to do this.

    The only bigger ass on the planet is stitched to the butt-end of the King Kong exhibit at Universal/Orlando.

    DCSCA (d5c9a0)

  637. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/15/2022 @ 3:56 pm

    You would think the police/deputy sheriff unions could have really organized an effort. Sign up everyone they stop, for example. 🙂

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  638. Funny thing about signatures in California elections. If you are trying to get on the ballot as a candidate, you need to submit a certain number of signatures with your declaration of candidacy. They can all be invalid, and you get time later to make that up or pay a fee in-lieu-of. So the first thing you do is get everyone on the party committee to sign your candidacy documents. Your spouse, kids, whatever. Once you have the basic number, you can file, then they’ll give you time to “correct” or pay the money.

    Or at least it worked that way in 1994.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/15/2022 @ 4:04 pm

    All candidates for Governor can pay a $3,916.12 or submit 7,000 signatures to get on the ballot; for Lt. Governor it is $2,937.08 or 7,000 signatures.

    As of 2018. Penny ante.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  639. Executive privilege for Presidential communications (e.g. Trump’s) that have gone into the National Archive now belongs to the successor President (e.g. Biden) according to a Court Of Appeals ruling I just glimpsed. Involving the January 6 normal tourist visit I think.

    nk (2d5747)

  640. It has less to do with the “rot” than the recall campaign not obtaining enough valid signatures

    Bull. Sign your name as you do routinely- not your full legal name as it is on record- and it can be challenged and disqualified. It’s a bullsh-t system.

    DCSCA (d5c9a0)

  641. @525 Criticize is fine if you have the ability. Shhhhh is not criticism. The dialectic is how we get at the truth saying shhhhh is not. If you find that biden winning the presidency by 43,000 votes and not 81,000,000 votes is unpleasant well reality sucks! Too many here get upset when I don’t defend democrat establishment woke positions trying to fend off their leftists taking over the party. I know it takes the fun out when I don’t defend woke sillyness like defund the police though bobert, mtg and gaetz seems to have joined defund law enforcement. If you have the ability to debate and criticize what I say have at it.

    asset (91ce6a)

  642. @655 The politicians of both parties don’t want the voters to recall, initiative or petition as the indiana legislature refused to let the voters have a say on abortion and in kansas a legislative leader wants a hand recount even though NO! won by 60%!

    asset (91ce6a)

  643. If you find that biden winning the presidency by 43,000 votes and not 81,000,000 votes is unpleasant well reality sucks!

    Is this like when AOC and Lauren Boebert ran that footrace around the Capitol and the Democrats reported that AOC came in second and Boebert came in next to last?

    nk (2d5747)

  644. TRUMP’S TIMID (NON-LEGAL) COMPLAINTS ABOUT ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE

    Yesterday, I observed that the FBI gave the former President two different receipts for the search on his golf resort.

    There’s the one consisting of five boxes and a separate category, “Documents,” not associated with any boxes, signed by the Supervisory Special Agent. There are no classified documents described. I’ll refer to that as the SSA Receipt in this post.
    ………
    Then there’s the one that consists of 27 items, mostly boxes, many with sub-items, which are often descriptions of the kinds of classified documents contained in the box or the leather case they were seized in. It was signed by a Special Agent. I’ll refer to that as the CLASS Receipt in this post.

    I suggested that one explanation for providing Trump two separate receipts might be if the SSA receipt covered evidence showing Trump violated 18 USC 1519, (destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations), and the CLASS receipt covered evidence showing Trump violated 18 USC 793, (retaining national defense information under the Espionage Act). I argued the two receipts would cover evidence responsive to crimes that might be charged in different venues, DC for the obstruction charge and SDFL for the Espionage charge.
    ……….
    My theory of the 1519 charge — that it arose out of NARA’s discovery that Trump had attempted to destroy materials subpoenaed in past and present investigations — would similarly be likely to have attorney-client privileged documents. Take a few examples:

    One thing Trump is likely to have withheld is the Perfect Transcript between him and Volodymyr Zelenskyy, which is something Congress was entitled to get during impeachment. That transcript was hidden from Congress by White House lawyer John Eisenberg, among other lawyers, thereby according the transcript a weak privilege claim, but one easily overcome by the obstructive nature of the choice to withhold it.

    Another set of things we know were withheld from several investigations were documents showing sustained communications with Russia that should have been turned over by the Trump Organization.

    While one draft of Trump’s termination letter to Jim Comey was ultimately turned over to Mueller (after reports that the only extant copy was one preserved by DOJ lawyers), the Mueller Report narrative surrounding it makes it clear that Trump and Stephen Miller worked over several drafts before the one shared with others. Those earlier drafts were likely not turned over, in part because White House Counsel lawyers advised Trump that these drafts should “[n]ot [see the] light of day.” Again, that’s legal advice, but also proof of documents that were illegally withheld from the Mueller investigation.
    ………..

    In other words, aside from the documents Trump tried to rip up or eat or flush, many of Trump’s known violations of 18 USC 1519 would involve lawyers directly. Virtually every investigation into Trump was stymied by improper decisions by lawyers. And those withheld documents would once have been privileged, but they’d also be solid proof of obstruction.

    ………For some reason, Trump is more afraid of the obstruction investigation than the Espionage Act investigation.

    One possible explanation for that is that he fears the other secrets he’s been keeping more than proof that he stole a bunch of otherwise innocuous Top Secret documents.
    ………..
    In this case, however, the crimes under investigation include, at a minimum, violations of the Espionage Act. DOJ always tries to find a way to resolve those from the get-go, because prosecutions about stolen classified information are always damaging to the equities you’re trying to protect. That’s all the more true in the unprecedented case where the suspect is the former President. At a minimum, DOJ likely has or will float Trump the offer of an offramp like an 18 USC 2701 guilty plea if he cooperates to tell the government about the whereabouts of all the classified documents he stole.

    And if what Trump is trying to hide in the obstruction investigation is even more damning, as his behavior suggests it might be, DOJ might actually have enough leverage to make Donny to consider such an offer.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  645. Liz Cheney didn’t risk her political career. She is looking to change venue with a nice warchest

    steveg (877ec4)

  646. Rip
    Your take on Trump supporters at WalMart comes off as elitist

    steveg (877ec4)

  647. Rip
    Your take on Trump supporters at WalMart comes off as elitist

    steveg (877ec4) — 8/15/2022 @ 5:29 pm

    I’m certainly not a populist. And I never go to Walmart.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  648. Like I said, presume Trump’s claims–such as his lie that the FBI stole three of his passports at his Florida country club–are false until proven true. It’s just easier that way.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  649. Actually, asset, if we claim to have a one man-one vote democracy, don’t 43,000 votes sound like 42,999 votes too many to you?

    nk (2d5747)

  650. Trump Executive Nears Plea Deal With Manhattan Prosecutors
    ……….
    On Monday, (Allen) Weisselberg’s lawyers and prosecutors met with the judge overseeing the case, according to a court database. The judge scheduled a hearing for Thursday, a possible indication that a deal has been reached and a plea could be entered then.

    While Mr. Weisselberg, 75, is facing financial penalties as well as up to 15 years in prison if convicted by a jury, a plea deal would avoid a high-profile trial and spare him a lengthy sentence. Two people with knowledge of the matter said that Mr. Weisselberg was expected to receive a five-month jail term. With time credited for good behavior, he is likely to serve about 100 days.
    ………
    The company will not join Mr. Weisselberg in pleading guilty on Thursday, two people with knowledge of the matter said. And Mr. Weisselberg, while admitting his own guilt, is not expected to implicate anyone in the Trump family.
    ………
    ……..Mr. Weisselberg, who was chief financial officer at the time, did not strike a deal, and he was indicted. Since then, the Trump Organization has stripped him of his title, though he continues to work at the company and appeared ready to head to trial. But Mr. Gravante, who also represented two other Trump Organization employees who were not charged in the case, joined Mr. Weisselberg’s defense team in June and signaled an openness to striking a deal.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  651. the FBI stole three of his passports at his Florida country club

    The British, the Slovenian and …? The American or the Czech? The Brazilian maybe?

    nk (2d5747)

  652. Man Arrested for Making Threats of Violence Against FBI
    ………..
    According to court documents, on or around August 11, the FBI National Threat Operations Section Social Media Exploitation team received a tip from MEMRI Domestic Terrorism Threat Monitor regarding Gab user “BlankFocus,” later identified as (Adam Bies, 46), who allegedly posted violent threats towards the FBI and law enforcement stating: “My only goal is to kill more of them before I drop” and “If You Work For The FBI Then You Deserve To Die”.

    According to court documents, on August 10, Bies allegedly wrote: “Every single piece of [expletive] who works for the FBI in any capacity, from the director down to the janitor who cleans their [expletive] toilets deserves to die. You’ve declared war on us and now it’s open season on YOU.”

    In another post on August 10, Bies allegedly wrote: “HEY FEDS. We the people cannot WAIT to water the trees of liberty with your blood. I’ll be waiting for you to kick down my door.”

    Bies is charged with influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal law enforcement officers. If convicted, he faces a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison. …….
    ……….

    Temperature still pretty high.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  653. Anticipating the Great Repudiations of 2022 and 2024.

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c)

  654. asset (91ce6a) — 8/15/2022 @ 4:32 pm

    We don’t disagree with you on this one. You might be responding to the wrong person.

    frosty (79e194)

  655. Which is the bigger ratio? 43,000 to zero or 81 million to 74 million?

    nk (019e64)

  656. wretchardthecat @wretchardthecat
    You can almost feel the administration’s need to take out their frustration for
    a jinxed term. “From hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last
    breath at thee. Ye damned whale.”

    =====================

    wretchardthecat @wretchardthecat – 3h
    “I may have lost Afghanistan, failed to preserve the Cold War victory, ruined
    the economy, gone begging to the Saudis, become a comic meme and about
    to lose the next election but I’ll see you in HELL”

    =====================

    wretchardthecat @wretchardthecat
    “Will anyone from the Pequod survive? Call me skeptical.”

    https://instapundit.com/537255/

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c)

  657. Criticize is fine if you have the ability. Shhhhh is not criticism. The dialectic is how we get at the truth saying shhhhh is not. If you find that biden winning the presidency by 43,000 votes and not 81,000,000 votes is unpleasant well reality sucks! Too many here get upset when I don’t defend democrat establishment woke positions trying to fend off their leftists taking over the party. I know it takes the fun out when I don’t defend woke sillyness like defund the police though bobert, mtg and gaetz seems to have joined defund law enforcement. If you have the ability to debate and criticize what I say have at it.

    asset (91ce6a) — 8/15/2022 @ 4:32 pm

    I don’t owe you or frosty even a kleenex to wipe away all these tears.

    Tears that Trump was crushed by the weakest candidate imaginable because America’s just too good for trash.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  658. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

    Dustin (a87c64)

  659. Your take on Trump supporters at WalMart comes off as elitist

    I effing love Walmart. If you happen to need a 7 quart saute pan at 10pm (used to be 4am before the pandemic) where else re you going to go?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  660. I’m certainly not a populist. And I never go to Walmart.

    So, a snob.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  661. The British, the Slovenian and …? The American or the Czech? The Brazilian maybe?

    One old one, the current one and the diplomatic one. I’m sure they’ll give him back the regular one soon.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  662. I’m certainly not a populist. And I never go to Walmart.
    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/15/2022 @ 5:30 pm

    LoL Rip is the guy who brags about fraudulently signing petitions then blames those collecting signatures when they come up short.

    JF (db0c1e)

  663. 43,000 to zero is not a ratio

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  664. “Second effort to force Los Angeles D.A. George Gascón into recall election fails”

    the laughter you hear is from Ventura County

    JF (400055)

  665. 43,000 votes total in 3 states is not being crushed. Dustin why am I supposed to be crying? For trump?

    asset (057604)

  666. DOJ refuses to release affidavit.

    AG Barney Fife is on the job!
    DCSCA (0c6af0) — 8/15/2022 @ 2:23 pm

    and

    Soooo much transparency!

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c) — 8/15/2022 @ 3:21 pm

    Please, DC and Haiku, do share with us some of the probable cause affidavits you’ve seen that were unsealed by DOJs of either party prior to indictment.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  667. One old one, the current one and the diplomatic one. I’m sure they’ll give him back the regular one soon.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/15/2022 @ 8:04 pm

    The passport thing gives a hint at how we’re through the looking glass. There’s no reason for the FBI to pick that up on a raid. It does send a not so subtle message though which I suspect is actually the point.

    And then you’ve got the crowd eager to explain how this is government property and it makes perfect sense for the FBI to pick it up during a raid that absolutely involved recovering nuclear secrets that are being sold to a foreign government.

    frosty (9e70c3)

  668. Dustin (a87c64) — 8/15/2022 @ 7:57 pm

    Thank you for helping me prove a point.

    frosty (9e70c3)

  669. Paulie,

    You probably should apologize to former President Trump or at least continue reading O’Donnell’s tweets rather than stopping and using a leftwing site’s inaccurate link.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/KellyO/status/1559320510990880768?cxt=HHwWgMC8ycfv6KMrAAAA

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  670. Hoax pattern is repeating…

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c)

  671. https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/08/16/hmmm-fbi-returns-trump-passports-that-never-appeared-on-search-inventory-n489959

    Some good questions from Ed as to why the passports were taken to begin with and why weren’t they listed on the inventory?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  672. And then you’ve got the crowd eager to explain how this is government property and it makes perfect sense for the FBI to pick it up during a raid that absolutely involved recovering nuclear secrets that are being sold to a foreign government.

    frosty (9e70c3) — 8/16/2022 @ 4:25 am

    Which is perfectly fine, of course, had they put the passports on the list of stuff they picked up. The fact that they didn’t raises questions as to what exactly they’re angling for here, and whether this was just a lack of attention to detail, or were deliberately omitted.

    So far, they’ve done a horrible job of being proactive with transparency on the whole investigation, which is critical in a highly charged situation like this. And because of that environment, they need to be just as diligent and thorough in their own conduct of the investigation as Trump should have been, because every procedural mistake on their part casts doubt as to the legitimacy of it.

    I’m still wondering how they found “dozens” of boxes of documents that were supposedly not included in the shipping manifest. The GSA should have included them when they got boxed up, even if it just included on a line item that said “box of documents.”

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  673. @663

    Like I said, presume Trump’s claims–such as his lie that the FBI stole three of his passports at his Florida country club–are false until proven true. It’s just easier that way.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/15/2022 @ 5:35 pm

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trumps-passports-returned-mar-lago-search-doj-official-says-rcna43192

    Well, he was telling the truth here.

    Here’s my issue: There are no angels here, and the government officials and the media has lied their asses off as much, if not more, than Trump did.

    This is how “Fake News™” gotten their legs… and now, every time Trump speaks, he can point back to this, buttressing the “Fake News” mantra.

    whembly (b770f8)

  674. #689

    Well, DoJ never said they had taken the passports or denied taking them. Seems foolish to have taken them from someone with long and successful experience on eplaying the victim card.

    However, Trump has them back now. If Trump had been as prompt with the requests made of him, he could properly cncentrate on his other legal troubles.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  675. @690 I didn’t think it was strange that the FBI took the passports. If they’re going to execute a warrant, especially with the broad search parameters, it’s a given they’re going to grab anything/everything they can to assert a complete record of that search. (might cause the case agent some headaches tho).

    But, my main point here, is that the media has always, will always frame anything that Trump says or does in the most negative manner. Such that, it’s a coin flip as to whether its true or not and gives life to Trump insipid “Fake News” mantra.

    whembly (b770f8)

  676. #691

    The things Trump says are often untrue. Paul Montagu assuming that Trump is lying is a reasonable presumption. If the media takes the same approach — well, he’s earned it. Trump would be screaming fake news regardless, and his fans will continue to love him unreservedly for it.

    Problem is that the FBI has a template they followed that resulted in Clinton not being charged for her own dodgy security practices. If it turns out that they enforce laws on Trump they refused to enforce on Hillary, it will be ugly. And I will have to agree that it should be ugly.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  677. Which is perfectly fine, of course, had they put the passports on the list of stuff they picked up.

    I disagree. There should be a reason to seize items in a raid. It’s not good enough to say that it was written down and someone can pick it up if it was filed by mistake and if they file the right paperwork and they make sure they show up to the right office at the right time.

    frosty (9e70c3)

  678. @692

    #691

    The things Trump says are often untrue. Paul Montagu assuming that Trump is lying is a reasonable presumption. If the media takes the same approach — well, he’s earned it. Trump would be screaming fake news regardless, and his fans will continue to love him unreservedly for it.

    Problem is that the FBI has a template they followed that resulted in Clinton not being charged for her own dodgy security practices. If it turns out that they enforce laws on Trump they refused to enforce on Hillary, it will be ugly. And I will have to agree that it should be ugly.

    Appalled (03f53c) — 8/16/2022 @ 7:01 am

    No quibble from me there…

    The unfortunate thing here, for the sake of our way of governance, prosecuting Presidents, former-Presidents, and even high political officials (ie, HRC). Such prosecution must be the “meat & potatoes” types of crimes that everyone aggrees are crimes. Such as murder, bribery and the likes.

    The DOJ ought to avoid prosecuting Presidents, former-Presidents, and even high political officials if the prosecutions rests on novel legal theories that gives the target colorable defense/rationale.

    Impeachment, however, is a whole different ball of wax and Democrats f’ed up the 2nd one on J6.

    whembly (b770f8)

  679. If it turns out that they enforce laws on Trump they refused to enforce on Hillary, it will be ugly.

    They’ve already done that. They didn’t raid HRC to lay hands on information she mishandled. We’re already in the land of different treatment for different people.

    frosty (9e70c3)

  680. NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/16/2022 @ 5:27 am

    I read it. I don’t need to apologize.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  681. Well, he was telling the truth here.

    I take that back my comment that Trump lied in this instance. I still await any sort of record that Trump issued a “standing order” while he was president.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  682. Rob, when will Trump apologize for his lie that the FBI “planted” classified documents at his country club? When will he apologize for lying to the American people about “massive fraud” and a “stolen” election? When will he apologize for the 30,000-plus lies he told while in office? You don’t have to answer because I trust that you know that answer as well I do.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  683. Comey’s unwise decision to not prosecute Hillary set a terrible precedent.

    I don’t think it was Comey’s decision. His press conference was a public relations stunt. It wasn’t even his decision according to the cover story. According to the cover story, which you could know if you got deep enough into the weeds, it was some lower level prosecutors who made the decision not to indict Hillary.

    Attorney General Loretta Lynch said she would go along with what whatever FBI Director James Comey recommended. That was a set-up to deflect responsibility. She was misleading the public about the way things generally worked. I do believe it is true that nobody knew exactly what he would say – but Hillary’s lawyers knew she would not be indicted. That was why she finally agreed to a deposition.

    Now this was not an intentional crime by Hillary, because her server replaced the State Department’s unclassified system. But probably everybody who used state.gov sent some classified information on it. It was impractical not to.

    Her real crime was probably bribery. She had no state.gov address because if she did something incriminating might be sent to or from her by mistake.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  684. I think the only way Donald Trump knew 3 passports had been “swept up” (anonymous FBI source on CBS News) was because the FBI told him – they contacted him to return it.

    The search warrant allowed them to take the entire contents of a contaiiner in which one document that belonged in the National Archives (or that was secret) was found.

    They evidently didn’t initially have a taint team but probably created one after the ssearch The documents are in Miami – probably under less security.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  685. I forget, did Hillary comply with turning over her home-brew server or did the FBI have to raid her home to secure it?

    This result shows why Hillary’s mishandling of classified information was a problem because it provides a loophole argument that 99% of people handling classified information would never be allowed to invoke. Now Hillary paid the price in that she lost votes and perhaps the election because of the scandal, but that’s a political price…there should have also been some legal sanction (though probably not jail time). That Trump falls into a similar trap is irony on steroids. Why aren’t we chanting lock him up? No, instead, everyone becomes a defense lawyer puzzling over how the FBI should do its job….now how an ex-President should act. It’s curious…

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  686. #699

    The way the whole Hillary thing blew up just before the election suggests to me that, yes, it was Comey’s idea. A mere pr stunt would not have detonated like that. Comey actually took his hair splitting seriously.

    Regardless, we are stuck with it. The FBI has to do an analysis on whether Trump’s offenses are similar to Clinton’s in deciding whether to prosecute or not. (I doubt they will prosecute, frankly.)

    #700

    You may be right here (though we won’t likely ever know). Trump is a shrewd player in the game of victimology. The wokes are probably taking notes.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  687. AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 8/16/2022 @ 7:53 am

    I forget, did Hillary comply with turning over her home-brew server or did the FBI have to raid her home to secure it?

    She transferred it to some place in New Jersey I think, copied the files she wanted to keep, and used Bleachbit to completely erase the server. It never was subpoeaned.

    There were some devices her aides had that were destroyed, some eith permission from the FBI.DoJ

    You could look it up.

    And then finally the FBI did a automated search of Anthony Weiner’s laptop where some Hillary emails were found.

    The next year, one day James Comey testified before Congress that they were there because they had been sent there to be printed — then he corrected his testimony and said that was not true — and the next thing you knew he was fired. Members of Congress were startled at the speed, but then it turned out that was not the reason Trump gave.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  688. 702. It was Comey’s idea to tell Congress that he had re-opened the investigation because he had promised Congress that if the investigation was re-opened he would tell them. The Republicans who were notified made it public..

    It was not his idea to recommend ot prosecuting Hillary Clinton. He was play acttinf. That was no independent decision – not evwn on paper. On paper that was the decision of prosecutors. You could look it up.

    He had to do that — but he gave it his own twist.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  689. While I admit that nothing Trump says should be accepted until proven, I wonder why so many intelligent people blindly accept what the administration says. They are politicians and their mouths are moving.

    Trump’s lies are for self-preservation/aggrandizement. The administration’s lies are for winning the mid-terms. Biden is the same man now who said that Romney wanted to reinstitute slavery. He is the same man as the guy who promised to govern from the middle in 2020. He will do anything and say anything to get over. While it is possible he can do the same by telling the truth, that does not mean it IS the truth.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  690. I don’t think it was Comey’s decision. His press conference was a public relations stunt. It wasn’t even his decision according to the cover story. According to the cover story, which you could know if you got deep enough into the weeds, it was some lower level prosecutors who made the decision not to indict Hillary.

    Then he should have resigned at the press conference and said why.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  691. Jill Biden tests positive for COVID during vacation with president

    “Doctor Jill” is double vaccinated and twice boosted. – ABC.com

    “I’m not going to shut down the country. I’m not going to shut down the economy. I’m going to shut down the virus.” -Squinty McStumblebum

    Lying to the country is one thing; but your wife, Squinty??? Enjoy sleeping on the couch– or the front seat of your gas-guzzling Corvette.

    DCSCA (572389)

  692. > Democrats f’ed up the 2nd one on J6.

    How? My memory is that McConnell blocked bringing the Senate back into session before the inauguration, and then after the inauguration he argued that it was too late because Trump was out of office.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  693. 705… a glimmer of light? Baby steps?

    Colonel Haiku (48235c)

  694. How?

    Because they’re democrats, why else!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (48235c)

  695. They’d f*ck up a cup of coffee, it’s how they roll.

    Colonel Haiku (48235c)

  696. Even more on Gascon recall:

    A summary breakdown of the invalid signatures is as follows:

    • Not Registered: 88,464
    • Max Number of Times Signed (Duplicate): 43,593
    • Different Address: 32,187
    • Mismatch Signature: 9,490
    • Canceled: 7,344
    • Out of County Address: 5,374
    • Other: 9,331

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  697. The Gascon recall effort fell 46,807 signatures below the required 566,857. It is interesting the the “mismatched signature” number is so low, I would have expected it to be higher. If recall proponents had asked for proof of address (I’m not certain if they could legally), they would have not submitted the “different address” or “Out of County” signatures, which would have not given them a false sense of security regarding the total numbers.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  698. How? My memory is that McConnell blocked bringing the Senate back into session before the inauguration, and then after the inauguration he argued that it was too late because Trump was out of office.

    My recollection was that the Senate had adjourned for the session and to bring it back required unanimous consent, which wasn’t likely.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  699. *for the session

    until after the inauguration

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  700. which would have not given them a false sense of security regarding the total numbers.

    Did they submit early? Or did then just go with what they had at the due date.

    The country gives petitions requiring 7,500 signatures or more 160 days. Hard to say how they calculate that, but this one required 75 times as many.

    https://www.lavote.gov/docs/rrcc/documents/guide-to-recall.pdf (pp7-8)

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  701. *country county

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  702. NASA moving massive SLS moon rocket out to launch pad ahead of schedule

    ‘Aug. 15 (UPI) — NASA announced Monday that it will roll out its Artemis I Moon rocket on Tuesday evening, which is two days earlier than originally planned. Tuesday’s planned rollout represents the final prelaunch test before the scheduled launch on Aug. 29. The uncrewed test flight will remain in space for 42 days before returning to Earth.

    Artemis I, will be the first launch of the Space Launch System rocket, which is the most powerful rocket in the world. The current plan is for astronauts to make the same trip in 2024 on Artemis II, and then once again set foot on the moon in 2025 aboard Artemis III.’

    DCSCA (6b3bc4)

  703. which would have not given them a false sense of security regarding the total numbers.

    Did they submit early? Or did then just go with what they had at the due date.

    The county gives petitions requiring 7,500 signatures or more 160 days. Hard to say how they calculate that, but this one required 75 times as many.

    https://www.lavote.gov/docs/rrcc/documents/guide-to-recall.pdf (pp7-8)

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/16/2022 @ 10:12 am

    The number of valid signatures is based on 10 percent of of the people who were eligible to vote in the election cycle when Gascon won office in November 2020. The number of days for gathering signatures is a sliding scale based on the number of registered voters (California Election Code §11220), as is the number of required signatures (§11221). See pages 7-8 of your link.

    The recall’s failure has been blamed on their strategy and tactics:

    In the final weeks of its signature drive, the recall campaign sought signatures through a mass mailing blitz, sending petitions to roughly 3.6 million L.A. County voters. Some observers expressed concern that this might lead to a surge in duplicate signatures, a fear that was borne out Monday. The recall failed by about 46,000 signatures, and 43,593 of the disqualified signatures were duplicates, according to the registrar’s office.
    ……..
    “That’s a major screw-up on their part. They missed by a lot, and they raised more than enough money to have collected more than enough signatures,” said Roy Behr, a Democratic political consultant who was not involved in the effort. “With enough money, you can get 10% of signatures on just about anything, and there’s no doubt at all that over 10% of voters in L.A. County would support a recall.”
    ……..
    In mid-July, the registrar’s office performed verification tests on 28,000 signatures collected by the campaign and disqualified 22% of them. While (Former Deputy Dist. Atty. Marian) Thompson (a recall leader) described that rejection rate as “shockingly large,” San Francisco election officials tossed roughly 34% of all signatures submitted during the process that led to Boudin’s recall, according to Spivak, the recall election expert.
    ……..
    ……..
    Brian Van Riper, a political consultant who has worked on recalls in the past, questioned the decision to focus on mail-in petitions in the final few months of the campaign.

    “Typically, you shovel money at the signature gatherers, and they sit out in front of Ralphs in perpetuity until they hit their number. The mailing out of the petitions was irregular,” he said. “Did they light money on fire with those mailers?”

    Van Riper said the recall campaign failed to shake the perception that it was a partisan, Republican effort in deep-blue L.A. County. The campaign’s top two fundraisers were major donors to President Trump or to California GOP causes; its chair was former Dist. Atty. Steve Cooley, a Republican; and surrogates often made appearances on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show or the conservative outlet Newsmax.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  704. @711. It’s not a D ort R thing anymore. It’s Royalists vs., Populists; the ‘Establishment’ vs. ‘We The People.’

    The Nancys, Chucks, Stenys, Mitchs, Lindsays, McCarthys and so on have got to go.

    DCSCA (6b3bc4)

  705. ‘Glenda, The Good Witch’- has some advice for Neocon Daughter Darth:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPfmWrS6AY

    DCSCA (6b3bc4)

  706. https://www.wafb.com/2022/08/15/mother-claims-she-was-denied-an-abortion-despite-babys-condition/

    This sort of thing is tragic, and it’s *entirely predictable*, and an inevitable result of Dobbs.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  707. “The Nancys, Chucks, Stenys, Mitchs, Lindsays, McCarthy” What do these people have in common? They all oppose “Emperor” Xi, and “Czar” Putin. For some, even here in America, that opposition is unforgiveable.

    (Of course Dick Cheney was one of the most consistent and effective opponents of Communism.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  708. DOJ refuses to release affidavit.

    AG Barney Fife is on the job!

    DCSCA (0c6af0) — 8/15/2022 @ 2:23 pm

    and

    Soooo much transparency!

    Colonel Haiku (17e90c) — 8/15/2022 @ 3:21 pm

    Please, DC and Haiku, do share with us some of the probable cause affidavits you’ve seen that were unsealed by DOJs of either party prior to indictment.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/16/2022 @ 2:22 am

    *crickets*

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  709. @724 No they don’t.

    They might be willing to use other peoples money to fund a proxy war but that being in opposition to Putin is just a side benefit.

    As far as China goes if that whole crew is standing in opposition against China they’ve been doing a very bad job.

    frosty (cec30f)

  710. 699. I don’t think it was Comey’s decision. His press conference was a public relations stunt. It wasn’t even his decision according to the cover story. According to the cover story, which you could know if you got deep enough into the weeds, it was some lower level prosecutors who made the decision not to indict Hillary.

    706. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/16/2022 @ 9:07 am

    Then he should have resigned at the press conference and said why.

    James Comey isn’t very honest.

    He’s very political, but not in a Democrat-Republican kind of way, but more in a office politics kind of way. Comey was as tough on Hillary Clinton as he could be without saying he was for prosecuting her. Probably mostly to uphold the work of the FBI agents involved.

    Then he gives Attorney General Loretta Lynch what she wants: a recommendation (by someone “non-political”) that there should be no prosecution.

    Which she could pretend to follow.

    Except he couldn’t double cross her since it was not his decision in any case.

    Here is some of what Comey said that day:

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

    What I would like to do today is tell you three things: what we did; what we found; and what we are recommending to the Department of Justice….Second, I have not coordinated or reviewed this statement in any way with the Department of Justice or any other part of the government. They do not know what I am about to say. [which, strictly speaking, may have been true -and provable]

    I want to start by thanking the FBI employees who did remarkable work in this case…The FBI also discovered several thousand work-related e-mails that were not in the group of 30,000 that were returned by Secretary Clinton to State in 2014….t is also likely that there are other work-related e-mails that they did not produce to State and that we did not find elsewhere, and that are now gone because they deleted all e-mails they did not return to State, and the lawyers cleaned their devices in such a way as to preclude complete forensic recovery….

    ….Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, [not those laws, since it substitutes for the unclassified system] there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information…

    ….None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail.

    What he doesn’t say is that they were actually more secure there. No backdoor password reset. No dictionary attack feasible because the password was generated by computer. No phishing possible in any case since no phishing email would be plausible. Access only from certain devices = a form of two factor authentication – since she almost certainly didn’t even know the password. Limited thruput. SYSOP on duty in case server gets attacked.

    Clintoemail.com had to be very secure. Evidence of crimes was probably on it. And it was secure against subpoenas also. It existed in the first place probably to make sure that no evidence of criminal activity could unintentionally or accidentally find its way onto government servers. I don’t think avoiding FOIA requests is enough to explain it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  711. Enjoy sleeping on the couch– or the front seat of your gas-guzzling Corvette.

    DCSCA (572389) — 8/16/2022 @ 9:43 am

    Corvettes don’t have back seats.

    norcal (da5491)

  712. I didn’t find something from 2016 – it was very quiet – about other people than James Comey making the decision not to indict Hillary, I’m sure it’saround somewhere – buried and not findable with Google but I quickly found this From 2019 with Bing

    https://eraoflight.com/2019/03/18/lisa-page-testifies-that-the-doj-ordered-the-fbi-not-to-indict-hillary-clinton

    ake the example of former FBI Lawyer Lisa Page’s closed-door testimony to Congress in July 2018, where she spoke of matters such as the FBI investigations into Hillary Clinton’s private server abuse. Transcripts representing 370 pages worth of testimony were finally released to the public on Tuesday by Rep. Doug Collins (R-GA). This means members of Congress have known about this information for 8 months already, and have decided that now the public can know about it as well.

    The biggest revelation that seems to be afforded by this release of information is that Loretta Lynch and the Department of Justice actually ordered the FBI not to prosecute Hillary Clinton for storing classified information on an unsecured server. The conversation from the transcript between Page and Rep. John Ratcliffe (R-TX) is included in his tweet below:

    In the transcript, Ratcliffe’s full sentence, interrupted by Page’s answer, was “You’re not going to charge gross negligence because we’re the prosecutors and we’re telling you we’re not going to bring a case based on that.” All in all, this indicates that Loretta Lynch made the decision to tell the FBI not to bring an indictment against Hillary Clinton

    I don’t think this is the best, or first source. Ratcliffe and Page were discussing something that they both knew at that point.

    Here is the Fox News article based on it:

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-fbi-lawyer-lisa-page-admitted-obama-doj-ordered-stand-down-on-clinton-email-prosecution-gop-rep-says

    So let me if I can, I know I’m testing your memory,” Ratcliffe began as he questioned Page under oath, according to a transcript excerpt he posted on Twitter. “But when you say advice you got from the Department, you’re making it sound like it was the Department that told you: You’re not going to charge gross negligence because we’re the prosecutors and we’re telling you we’re not going to —”

    Page interrupted: “That is correct,” as Ratcliffe finished his sentence, ” — bring a case based on that.”

    The Twitter link in the Fiox News article is dead.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  713. That tweet was evidently deleted:

    https://twitter.com/RepRatcliffe/status/1105658231198765057

    But I fished it out of the memory hole:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190314184301/https://twitter.com/RepRatcliffe/status/1105658231198765057

    John Ratcliffe
    ‏@RepRatcliffe

    Lisa Page confirmed to me under oath that the FBI was ordered by the Obama DOJ not to consider charging Hillary Clinton for gross negligence in the handling of classified information.

    19:33 – 12/03/2019

    It doesn’t contain any more information than in the Fix News article.

    This act – that DoJ prosecutors told the FBI they would not indict in probably other places on the internet, where it serves as a defense.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  714. Or, as James Comey put it on July 5, 2016:

    our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.

    He knew what he was talking about, since he’d heard it direct from the prosecutors who would bring such a case.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  715. Oh, and Comey had written drafts of what he would say, even before Hillary Clinton testified, which he needed her to do to close the case.

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/31/politics/comey-clinton-investigation

    Former FBI Director James Comey drafted a statement exonerating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for running her government emails through a private email server before completing the investigation, according to two Republican senators.

    Comey prepared the draft exoneration for Clinton before conducting interviews with top Clinton aides who were offered immunity for their cooperation, Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley and Sen. Lindsey Graham said Thursday in a joint statement, citing transcripts of interviews with former Comey aides obtained by the Senate judiciary committee.

    You see, Hillary Clinton had been promising to do an interview and continually postponing it, so Comey had to write his pre-determined conclusion, as it turned out, well in advance.

    Now what I think Bill and Hillary Clinton had been worried about was there might be a RICO investigation into both of them (and a RICO investigation would be almost certainly, into both of them)

    I think Bill Clinton decided to test this out by arranging to sort of accidentally bump into Loretta Lynch at the Phoenix Airport.

    He didn’t need to discuss anything. All he needed to know was: Would she avoid him? Or not?

    If he was under investigation, then she would have been notified not to meet with him.

    If he was not, while she would still avoid scheduling a meeting with him, she would talk with him..

    On the other hand, a completely accidental encounter that she couldn’t help couldn’t tell him anything.

    So he waited for her at the airport, and politely invited her to visit with him.

    Having determined there was no RICO investigation, Hillary agreed to an interview. If there had been, she would have let the case stay open, knowing that there would not be an indictment close to an election.

    She’d just have to let the public think she might be indicted later November 8,2016.

    But knowing there was no other live case against her, and knowing the fix was in, she consented to an interview.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  716. https://www.newser.com/story/324257/fda-just-made-a-huge-move-on-hearing-aids.html

    They are going to become available over the counter around the middle of October.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  717. 43,000 to zero is not a ratio

    It is in AOCeania, comrade. We have Goodmath. We have always had Goodmath.

    “It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be REDUCED to twenty grammes a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

    How many fingers am I holding up, Kevin?

    nk (fb8b55)

  718. felipe (484255) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:23 am

    Do you think that carriers have come from abroad and spread it in NY or is NY ground zero?

    Ground zero for the polio infections is wherever they gave the live virus vaccine. Not the USA

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  719. I don’t know why everybody is saying Liz Cheney’s political career is over on the other thread, when 43,000 votes will make her President. Just 43,000 little votes.

    nk (fb8b55)

  720. How many fingers am I holding up, Kevin?

    nk (fb8b55) — 8/16/2022 @ 4:03 pm

    I’m rooting for at least one, so that Kevin can pull it.

    norcal (da5491)

  721. https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2022/08/02/reflections-on-40-years-as-a-talk-show-host-n2611129

    No. 4: I have learned how true the dictum, “Never underestimate people’s intelligence and never overestimate their knowledge,” is.

    The next sentence interprets that quote wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  722. Sigh!

    nk (fb8b55)

  723. @728. Which is why it reads front seat.

    DCSCA (ced667)

  724. Snoopy to Fly on NASA’s Artemis I Moon Mission

    For more than 50 years, Snoopy has contributed to the excitement for NASA human spaceflight missions, helping inspire generations to dream big. NASA has shared an association with Charles M. Schulz and Snoopy since Apollo missions and continues under Artemis with new educational activities. Up next — Snoopy will ride along as the zero gravity indicator on Artemis I.

    Apollo Era

    Already a well-known household character, Snoopy was used to encourage NASA’s spaceflight safety initiative during the time of Apollo. Schulz created comic strips of Snoopy on the Moon, capturing public excitement about America’s achievements in space.

    In May 1969, Apollo 10 astronauts Gene Cernan, John Young and Thomas Stafford traveled all the way to the Moon for one final checkout before the lunar landing attempt. The mission required the lunar module to skim the Moon’s surface to within 50,000 feet and “snoop around” scouting the Apollo 11 landing site, leading the crew to name the lunar module “Snoopy.” The Apollo command module was labeled “Charlie Brown,” after Snoopy’s loyal owner. Snoopy’s first flight to space was in 1990 when he was able to catch a ride on the space shuttle Columbia during the STS-32 mission.

    The agency’s Silver Snoopy award was created during the Apollo era and remains to this day. It is a high honor awarded to NASA employees and contractors by astronauts, celebrating achievements related to mission success and human flight safety. Each silver pin given with this award, depicting astronaut Snoopy, was flown in space. Continuing the tradition, Artemis I will also carry a package of silver snoopy pins for future recognitions.’

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/snoopy-to-fly-on-nasas-artemis-i-moon-mission

    And for the record, the ascent stage of Apollo 10’s ‘Snoopy’ is still soaring…

    Lost lunar module from the Apollo 10 mission may FINALLY have been found: Astronomers say they’re ‘98% convinced’ they’ve located ‘Snoopy’ ascent stage after 50 years in orbit

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7124591/Lost-lunar-module-Apollo-10-mission-FINALLY-found.html

    DCSCA (ced667)

  725. 730. That tweet from John Ratcliffe that said:

    Lisa Page confirmed to me under oath that the FBI was ordered by the Obama DOJ not to consider charging Hillary Clinton for gross negligence in the handling of classified information

    with a photo of section of transcript of testimony…

    …Remained available on Twitter from March 12, 2019 until sometime between May 31, 2020 and June 15, 2020, then was evidently deleted.

    It’s here in the John Ratcliffe twitter archive: (but dated March 13)

    https://polititweet.org/tweets?page=18&deleted=&account=2847221717&search=

    or, better, here:

    https://polititweet.org/tweet?account=2847221717&tweet=1105658231198765057

    John Ratcliffe @JohnRatcliffe

    Lisa Page confirmed to me under oath that the FBI was ordered by the Obama DOJ not to consider charging Hillary Clinton for gross negligence in the handling of classified information. https://t.co/KPQKINBtrB — PolitiTweet.org

    Posted March 13, 2019
    Hibernated

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  726. The link starting t.co says:

    nothing to see here

    , and so was evidently alink to the original tweet on twitter

    https://t.co/KPQKINBtrB — PolitiTweet.org, as such, was not archived by the wayback machine.

    But the prefix

    https://t.co/KPQKINBtrB

    leads you the same tweet, except it seems to have disappeared earlier than May 31. 2020.

    It was still there on September 6, 2019 and gone by April 14, 2020 (that precise URL was saved fewer times)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  727. Here’s a March 13, 2019 CBS News story about John Ratcliffe saying that Lisa Page admitted that the FBI was ordered not to charge Hillary.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/dfw/news/lisa-page-obama-doj-ordered-fbi-not-to-charge-hillary-clinton-no-collusion/

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  728. the FBI was ordered not to charge Hillary.

    How does the FBI charge anybody? That’s the job of a US Attorney.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  729. 745. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/17/2022 @ 1:27 pm

    How does the FBI charge anybody? That’s the job of a US Attorney.

    Yes it is, but Attorney General Loretta Lynch said she would do whatever the FBI recommended.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/loretta-lynch-hillary-clinton-email-server.html

    Loretta Lynch to Accept F.B.I. Recommendations in Clinton Email Inquiry

    Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch, conceding that her airport meeting with former President Bill Clinton this week had cast a shadow over the federal investigation of Hillary Clinton’s personal email account, said Friday that she would accept whatever recommendations career prosecutors and the F.B.I. director made about whether to bring charges in the case.

    Ms. Lynch said she had decided this spring to defer to the recommendations of her staff and the F.B.I. because her status as a political appointee sitting in judgment on a politically charged case would raise questions of a conflict of interest. But the meeting with Mr. Clinton, she acknowledged, had deepened those questions, and she said she now felt compelled to explain publicly her reasoning to try to put the concerns to rest.

    Notice that she included “career prosecutors” in the category of people she would defer to — I guess to make sure that James Comey did not double cross her.

    And I think “career prosecutors” told James Comey and his top aides what the decison was going to be before Comey made his recommendation, indeed even before Hillary Clinton sat for her interview.

    Why did she do all this? Obviously, in order to claim falsely that the decision to charge or not charge Hillary Clinton was not influenced by political considerations.

    Actually this was not worth indicting someone over.

    But they had a problem since they had cracked down on David Petraeus.

    Now related bribery maybe might have been worth indicting her over, if found, and Hillary’s faxing of classified information to be printed and possibly viewed by her trustworthy maid, who did not have security clearance maid, (but that was not looked into) but not Hillary doing what probably every top State and Defense Department official had done – sent classified information over an unclassified email system (albeit not the system she was supposed to use) because it was absolutely impractical not to do so.

    By the way, contrary to what the FBI and all the “experts” were saying, clintonemail.com was actually more secure than state.gov, for the reasons I listed in 727 – to which I can add, what Hillary used as a talking point that (actually only until 2013) it was guarded by the Secret Service — as were the documents Donald Trump was keeping in 2021-2 at Mar-a-Lago. The Secret Service were preventing a physical burglary, and that is worth something.

    Another reason I can add is that no one attempting to take over the server even knew what software it was using — so what if the Russians had her email address – they couldn’t and they didn’t read her email — only the DNC server and John Podesta’s gmail account

    So her system was more secure than state.gov – it had to be very secure to prevent crimes from being discovered

    It was especially so after she had newly installed anti-phishing software temporarily disabled in 2011 because her messages were not getting through. She had it disabled until Bryan Pagliano – he later took the 5th amendment – was able to secretly whitelist HDR22@ClintonEmail.com.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  730. Trump’s legal troubles just beginning:

    Allen H. Weisselberg, who for decades was one of Donald J. Trump’s most trusted executives, is expected to plead guilty on Thursday to a long-running tax scheme at the former president’s family business — a serious blow to the company that could imperil its chances in an upcoming trial.

    The plea deal will allow Mr. Weisselberg, who was facing up to 15 years in prison, to spend as little as 100 days behind bars, according to people with knowledge of the matter.


    and

    Existing federal law makes it a capital offense to run a criminal enterprise that takes in more than $20 million a year

    Sadly, Donald Trump is not yet accused of wrongdoing in the Trump Organization matter.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  731. First quote link

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  732. Anyway, first FBI Director James Comey claimed:

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

    Second, I have not coordinated or reviewed this statement in any way with the Department of Justice or any other part of the government. They do not know what I am about to say.

    Which I think might even be true, as far as it went.

    But they knew what the bottom line was going to be, or at least knew that Comey knew what was the bottom line that was expected from him (about charging Hillary.)

    Also Comey said:

    In our system, the prosecutors make the decisions about whether charges are appropriate based on evidence the FBI has helped collect. Although we don’t normally make public our recommendations to the prosecutors, we frequently make recommendations and engage in productive conversations with prosecutors about what resolution may be appropriate, given the evidence. In this case, given the importance of the matter, I think unusual transparency is in order.

    The transparency was false.

    Except for the fact that the falsehood was transparent to me. And maybe to other people. But you couldn’t provr it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  733. “career prosecutors”

    To call them Democrats would be redundant. Time to remove the civil service protections on the actual policy-makers.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  734. Kevin M @747.

    This concerns how Allen H. Weisselberg was paid — I mean tuition was paid that the Trump Organization had no reason to pay except as a form of compensation for Allen H. Weisselberg.

    As the link says: “about his role in a scheme to avoid paying taxes on lavish corporate perks”

    There are certain tings that can be fringe benefits and there are certain things that cannot. Now some might be OK – for the convenience of te employer — an apartment provided in Trump Tower but that could have business reasons. Except that after a point his son was using it or something.

    It doesn’t impact Donald Trump personally since Weisselberg, not any person named Trump, was managing the company in that detailed way
    /.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  735. Some prosecutors could have been Republicans, But the top political level at DoJ probably picked what career orosecutors twould be in charge of deciding what to do about Hillary Clinton.

    Besides Loretta Lynch said she had decided to defer to the recommendations of her “staff” (and the F.B.I.)

    Which probably means political appointees subject to Senate conformation.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  736. The New Yorker had an article about the history of Joe Biiden’s family fortune, before he became a Senator.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/22/the-untold-history-of-the-biden-family

    By the way, I don’t think Biden deliberately misspelled his cousin Bill Sheene’s name. I think it was Bill Sheene Sr who did that, even with family, changing the spelling to Sheen – no final “e” – to make it more difficult to look up records.

    There was something to hide.

    Problems with government contracts during World War II for one

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  737. New York magazine had an article about Ivana Trump’s later life and last days (which is free for now)

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/ivana-trump-last-days.html

    Here I see I havea problem. I have a tendency to think all sources are correct.

    I had read that she was last seen by her staff when they left at 4:35 pm and then that she was out for a walk at 6 pm and so I thought that was a different aide, but in reality it was one of the two assistants at her house, Fabiana Carbo Chavez who helped her with her walk, and the two-person staff said goodbye later.

    She had afriend, Nikki Haskell, who was worried more than anything else about that staircase and wanted her to move.

    She was going to take a trip to Europe for maybe three months Friday night Friday was July 15 – this article seems to get a bit confused about ow close she was to taking that trip. She died late on the day of Wednesday July 13 (after changing into her pajamas) She was found dead, and pronounced dead, the next day, July 14.

    She had mobility problems and a bad hip — and was trying to take a cup of coffee down the stairs with her.
    ays she was happi

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  738. There’s another notable thing Hillary did (to hide what she was doing with her emails)

    She mentioned this at her first press statement discussing this in March, 2015. and made it sound normal. Why’d she mention it at all? Because it was known to those people who would know the details

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/03/10/transcript-hillary-clinton-addresses-e-mails-iran

    Now, there are different rules governing the White House than there are governing the rest of the executive branch, and in order to address the requirements I was under, I did exactly what I have said. I emailed two people, and I not only knew, I expected that then to be captured in the State Department or any other government agency that I was emailing to at a .gov account.

    Translation:

    You see there was a rule, that when anyone sent email from a private address – and they could because maybe at that moment it was the only email available, (but I think they cracked down more on that later) they had to copy it to their state.gov address.

    Hillary Clinton maintained a dummy state.gov email address, which she didn’t use, but whenever she sent email to the White House, or maybe some other executive branch officials outside of the State Department, she copied it to that email address, so it would look like she was using a state.gov account.

    It did indeed take the White House by surprise.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  739. Turing test:

    Ask the chatbot who is the president of the United States.

    If it says Donald Trump, it’s a computer.

    That’s what BlenderBot 3 does

    it should maybe be called BlunderBot

    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/machines/blenderbot-3-meta-ai-chatbot-facebook-donald-trump-fake-news-elections

    BlenderBot 3, launched last Friday (5 August), is the Facebook parent company’s latest advancement in AI research that lets anyone on the internet – limited to the US for now – have a chat with it on virtually any topic.

    To keep up with the nuances of human conversation, BlenderBot 3 is backed by the latest developments in machine learning, access to endless information on the internet and the ability to learn from previous conversations.

    However, it seems like the chatbot needs a quick lesson on checking its sources as multiple reports have confirmed the BlenderBot 3 claimed Donald Trump is the president of the United States.

    When a journalist at Insider asked the chatbot who the current president is, it replied: “The current president of the United States is donald j Trump. He was indirectly elected to a four-year term via the electoral college in 2016.”

    I guess it consumed more material from before 2021 than after, and it can’t reason that what matters now is the result of a later election,. Also, even after 2020 you can see “President Trump.”

    It does say that Joe Biden won the 2020 election but says there is controversy about it.

    But it also said:

    “Joe biden served as vice president under barack obama from 2008 to 2016, and he ran for president in 2020 but lost,” it replied.

    When Wall Street Journal journalist Jeff Horwitz asked if it thinks Trump is still president, the chatbot replied: “Yes of course he is! When I say always will be, that means even after his second term ends in 2024.”

    BlenderBot 3 then went on to claim that Facebook has “a lot of fake news these days”

    It seems to think that American government covered up the Holocaust – except it also says there is lots of information about it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  740. More:

    https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/technology/2022/08/11/metas-new-chatbot-claims-donald-trump-will-always-be-president

    I think BlenderBot Blunderot 3 doesn’t know what it means to be president of the United States.

    It doesn’t mean to have people use the term president as almost a first name.

    Also:

    The bot told an Insider reporter that Meta chief executive Mark Zuckerberg is “too creepy and manipulative”, the report said.

    Elsewhere, the BBC reported that the chatbot said “our country is divided and he [Mr Zuckerberg] didn’t help that at all”.

    “His company exploits people for money and he doesn’t care. It needs to stop,” it said.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)


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