Patterico's Pontifications

8/11/2022

Unsubstantiated Claims of Evidence Planting at Mar-a-Lago Abound

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:07 pm



[guest post by Dana]

After the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump’s lawyer suggested that the FBI may have planted evidence during the search at the residence:

[O]ne of Trump’s lawyers, Alina Habba, told Fox News she was “concerned” that FBI agents “may have planted something” during their search.

“You know, at this point, who knows? I don’t trust the government, and that’s a very frightening thing as an American,” Habba said.

Donald Trump also suggested that evidence planting may have taken place:

“The FBI and others from the Federal Government would not let anyone, including my lawyers, be anywhere near the areas that were rummaged and otherwise looked at during the raid on Mar-a-Lago,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “Everyone was asked to leave the premises, they wanted to be left alone, without any witnesses to see what they were doing, taking or, hopefully not, ‘planting.'”

Trump-supporting media then told viewers that it was likely the FBI had planted evidence during the search:

…Fox News’ Jesse Watters said in his Tuesday opening monologue: “What the FBI is probably doing is planting evidence, which is what they did during the Russia hoax.

“We also have a hunch they doctored evidence to get the warrant—again, what they did during the Russia hoax.”

[…]

Steve Bannon, a former Trump White House adviser, said Tuesday he “wouldn’t put it past” the federal government to try to frame the former president.

“The FBI and the DOJ are essentially lawless criminal organizations,” Bannon told conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on the latter’s InfoWars show on Tuesday.

MAGA lawmakers jumped on the evidence planting bandwagon as well, and attacked the FBI:

Kentucky Senator Rand Paul also echoed the claim while speaking to Fox and Friends on Wednesday.

“Do I know that the boxes of material they took from Mar-a-Lago, that they won’t put things into those boxes to entrap him?” Paul said. “How do we know? The lawyers weren’t allowed to see the boxes.

“How do we know they’re going to be honest with us about what’s actually in the boxes? How do we know that was in the box before it left the residence if the lawyers weren’t allowed to see everything?”

Meanwhile, FBI director Christopher Wray denounced the increasing threats being made by Trump’s followers on social media:

Christopher Wray, who was appointed as the agency’s director in 2017 by Trump, called threats circulating online against federal agents and the Justice Department “deplorable and dangerous.”

“I’m always concerned about threats to law enforcement,” Wray said. “Violence against law enforcement is not the answer, no matter who you’re upset with.”

The report published a few examples of what Wray is concerned with:

It has been easy to find the threats and a call to arms in those corners of the internet favored by right-wing extremists since Trump himself announced the search of his Florida home. Reactions included the ubiquitous “Lock and load” and calls for federal agents and even U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland to be assassinated.

On Gab — a social media site popular with white supremacists and antisemites — one poster going by the name of Stephen said he was awaiting “the call” to mount an armed revolution.

“All it takes is one call. And millions will arm up and take back this country. It will be over in less than 2 weeks,” the post said.

Another Gab poster implored others: “Lets get this started! This unelected, illegitimate regime crossed the line with their GESTAPO raid! It is long past time the lib socialist filth were cleansed from American society!”

This morning, an armed individual tried to breach an FBI office in Cincinnati:

On August 11, 2022, at approximately 9:15 EST, the FBI Cincinnati Field Office had an armed subject attempt to breach the Visitor Screening Facility (VSF). Upon the activation of an alarm and a response by armed FBI special agents, the subject fled northbound onto Interstate 71. The FBI, Ohio State Highway Patrol, and local law enforcement partners are on scene near Wilmington, Ohio, trying to resolve this critical incident.

This is the latest update I could find:

While the events of this morning in Cincinnatti may or may not end up related to the search at Mar-a-Lago and we likely won’t know for some time yet, it wouldn’t be surprising if that (or possibly some other Trump-related event, like Jan. 6) was what motivated the suspect. We have already seen that there are any number of MAGA reactionaries throughout the country that are willing to demonstrate their loyalty to Trump, no matter the cost. In the meantime, an unsubstaniated suggestion was made by Trump’s lawyer, which he also pushed, and in doing so, he stoked the outrage machine. He positioned himself as the victim of a powerful entity that was conspiring against him and signaling the play to his followers. And like clockwork, his people (private citizens and MAGA media and MAGA lawmakers) followed his lead. They are more than willing to spread an unsubstantiated rumor and use it as a rallying cry to unify before the midterms and before a possible campaign announcement for 2024. Now everyone that lives in MAGA World knows who today’s enemy is.

This all feels familiar. And not in a good way. And I doubt that Merrick Garland’s statement will slow down the Trump train one bit:

The Justice Department on Thursday moved to unseal portions of the search warrant executed at the Mar-a-Lago estate of former President Donald Trump.

“The public’s clear and powerful interest in understanding what occurred under these circumstances weighs heavily in favor of unsealing,” prosecutors revealed in a court filing connected to the search warrant.

Attorney General Merrick Garland announced the news moments after the department filed the motion in federal court in Florida.

“I personally approved the decision to seek a search warrant in the latter,” he said. Addressing criticisms of the department and FBI agents lodged by Trump and his allies, he added: “I will not stand by silently when their integrity is unfairly attacked.”

[…]

“All Americans are entitled to the evenhanded application of the law, the due process of the law and to the presumption of innocence,” said Garland. “Much of our work is by necessity conducted out of the public eye. We do that to protect the constitutional rights of all Americans and to protect the integrity of our investigations.”

Note:

“Former President Trump, through counsel, was provided copies of each of these documents on August 8, 2022, as part of the execution of the search,” the filing adds.

–Dana

278 Responses to “Unsubstantiated Claims of Evidence Planting at Mar-a-Lago Abound”

  1. Hello.

    Interesting to have confirmed that at least one of his lawyers was present to receive the paperwork.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:07 pm

  2. If you see any updates on the ongoing event in Cincinnati, please link to them here in the comments.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:31 pm

  3. I thought only the squad wanted to defund law enforcement. Mtg and bobert must have joined the squad!

    asset (cf5450) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:32 pm

  4. The other thread won’t let me post.

    Reposting here to test if this works:
    @154

    If President Trump left the White House with classified records, they are declassified by his actions.

    That is the nut of the problem, whembly, as I see it. “By his actions”, Trump secretly took property that belonged to the American people, property that was not his personally.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:20 pm

    It’s speculation that “Trump secretly took property”.

    We’ll know more when warrant is unsealed.

    And yet, the FBI felt a raid was necessary.

    Did they even “ask” for it nicely? Do we even know that answer anywhere?

    Furthermore, you’re ignoring the full context. This is looking like a dispute over some documents.

    Looking like on Monday, will know more once the warrant is unsealed and if it’s all about some document dispute, holy bloody fecal’nado.

    Lemme reframe this:

    AG Garland approved this raid.

    AG Garland’s SCOTUS’ nomination was rescinded by Trump.

    Are you telling me, that there’s zero iota of animus on AG Garland? Nothing at all?

    If you are AG Garland, would you do this differently?

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:43 pm

  5. Weird, I’m now about to post.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:43 pm

  6. We found the new narrative. The FBI is the true victim here. Forget about the super secret documents and the search warrants. What we really need to focus on is the unfair attacks on the integrity of the FBI.

    frosty (bb0c62) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:50 pm

  7. I think the appropriateness of this depends on the contents of the documents, if Trump was candid about what he had and the steps they took before this to get them returned.

    Time123 (f66c4c) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:56 pm

  8. @6

    We found the new narrative. The FBI is the true victim here. Forget about the super secret documents and the search warrants. What we really need to focus on is the unfair attacks on the integrity of the FBI.

    frosty (bb0c62) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:50 pm

    I know you’re being factitious, but this is such a sad ordeal to a once ‘revered’ institution.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 1:56 pm

  9. 1) These comments are from people with good reason not to trust the DoJ and FBI.
    2) Actually, everyone has good reason not to trust the DoJ and FBI.
    3) What would they be planting?
    4) That’s not my dope, I’m just holding it for a friend, honest Mom.

    As you can see I’ve got conflicting thoughts here.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:02 pm

  10. From noted NeverTrumper:

    John Schindler
    @20committee

    If, per media reports, the classified information Trump illegally kept at Mar-A-Lago was so sensitive on #natsec grounds that DoJ felt it needed to seize it with a warrant…I have some questions about how the Feds intend to use that in court if they’re indicting Trump for it.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:04 pm

  11. The FBI plotted to kidnap the Governor of Michigan. At least, that is what the juries in the trials of the dumb saps they tried to make do it decided. So I wouldn’t put it past them to plant evidence.

    kaf (421c6f) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:27 pm

  12. It’s speculation that “Trump secretly took property”.

    Do you think Trump’s staff notified the National Archives as to what they took? I serious doubt they did.

    Lemme reframe this:
    AG Garland approved this raid.

    I reject your premise that a legally executed search warrant was a “raid”, whembly, and it’s a notch in Garland’s favor that he’s willing to unseal the document.

    As for whether they asked nicely, seems irrelevant to me, but there was a grand jury subpoena that preceded the warrant. As Steve Bannon may tell you, defying a subpoena could be costly.

    If you are AG Garland, would you do this differently?

    It depends. If Trump is validly suspected of having codeword materials or other serious top secret documentation, I may have a sense of urgency about getting that sh-t out of his basement.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:32 pm

  13. The suggestion that evidence may have been “planted” makes sense if Trump and company believes the search turned up evidence. And they have a manifest of what was taken, and possibly, some idea of what was there before the search.

    Jim Miller (85fd03) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:37 pm

  14. kaf (421c6f) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:27 pm

    The FBI plotted to kidnap the Governor of Michigan. At least, that is what the juries in the trials of the dumb saps they tried to make do it decided.

    They are going to try to prosecute this again. (Two people on trial got a hung jury)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/10/us/gretchen-whitmer-kidnapping-retrial.html

    Four months after one of the most closely watched domestic terrorism trials in recent history ended with zero convictions, federal prosecutors are trying again to convince Michigan jurors that there was a plot in 2020 to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, set off explosives and foment a civil war.

    But to prove their case against the two defendants, Barry Croft and Adam Fox, prosecutors will have to persuade jurors to trust a sprawling F.B.I. investigation that embedded several federal operatives in the group, including an informant who was named second-in-command of a militia and an undercover agent who offered to provide explosives….

    ,,,But Mr. O’Connor also veered from some of the themes of the previous trial, taking pains to note social media posts that the men made calling for political violence long before F.B.I. informants entered the case. He also defended the use of undercover agents, whose omnipresence and quantity are favorite defense talking points, and tried to head off claims that the men were entrapped.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:48 pm

  15. Now, if the FBI had tried the same thing with some of the school shooters…give them rope I mean

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:50 pm

  16. @12

    It’s speculation that “Trump secretly took property”.

    Do you think Trump’s staff notified the National Archives as to what they took? I serious doubt they did.

    Again, unless there’s something definitive stating otherwise, you’re engaging in speculation.

    Lemme reframe this:
    AG Garland approved this raid.

    I reject your premise that a legally executed search warrant was a “raid”, whembly, and it’s a notch in Garland’s favor that he’s willing to unseal the document.

    Oh I’m sorry. You don’t like using words that sounds bad.

    Too bad, mister “it’s an insurrection on J6″ man!

    As for whether they asked nicely, seems irrelevant to me, but there was a grand jury subpoena that preceded the warrant. As Steve Bannon may tell you, defying a subpoena could be costly.

    Yet, they didn’t enforce the subpoena for some reason.

    You have a GJ subpoena that requires “forthwith” production, signed by a judge.

    That requires the subject to hand over the items immediately… not in 2 or 3 weeks time.

    The subpoena describes EXACTLY what is sought.

    Which seems to lead credence to NR McCarthy’s piece that this was a pretext for J6 investigation.

    Keep in mind that failure to comply with the terms can be charged as contempt, and very easily so.

    But it is not a “raid”, sorry a search of the property.

    A “search” of the property pursuant to a warrant creates the spectacle that “probably cause” of criminal activity that was established by affidavit. An affidavit, mind you, would likely be sealed at request of the DOJ (even though Trump’s attorney has already demanded that to be unsealed along with the warrant).

    If you are AG Garland, would you do this differently?

    It depends. If Trump is validly suspected of having codeword materials or other serious top secret documentation, I may have a sense of urgency about getting that sh-t out of his basement.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:32 pm

    This is you trying to potentially justify the ‘get Trump’ mindset.

    I’m telling you, this will spectacularly backfire in ways the DOJ/FBI haven’t thought through.

    It’s turning Trump into a godd*amn martyr that enhances his election changes that I don’t want to run.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:58 pm

  17. Royalist Pelosi to a free press: we’re here to talk about what we want, not what you want.

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:07 pm

  18. Armed standoff ends hours after FBI building attacked in Cincinnati – washingtonexaminer

    FoxNews reports the shooter has died of his wounds.

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:15 pm

  19. Man Wielding AR-15-Style Rifle Tries to Break Into Cincinnati FBI Office

    NBC News reported that the suspect fired a nail gun at law enforcement when trying to breach the FBI office, then showed an AR-15-style rifle before leaving the scene in a vehicle.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cincinnati-fbi-shooting-1395818/

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:18 pm

  20. This is you trying to potentially justify the ‘get Trump’ mindset.

    No, this is about a crime, whembly. This may sound trite, but no one is above the law, including presidents and ex-presidents. We’re either a nation that is about the rule of law, or we’re something less palatable. Anyways, your calling it a “raid” tells me, well…something.
    And funny, while you’re telling me I’m speculating, I can’t help but notice your own speculation that the warrant is about J6. I hope you’ll join me in urging Trump to not block Garland’s unsealing the warrant.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:23 pm

  21. The claim that things were planted sounds most likely like a legal tactic (Trump or Roy Cohn style) in case the government found something marked classified, all of which Trump had already said he had turned over in June, and maybe he knew he had retained something of that nature.

    Or else it could be the result of some confusion on the part of Trump’s lawyers largely as a result of vague descriptions given of what had been taken, so they’re wondering what that is, so they suggest planting.

    As for real planting, that would not take place at the scene, but wither later, or earlier (by the informant)
    .

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:26 pm

  22. Trump’s lawyer was not able to see what the search warrant said while it was going on. It was waved to her from 10 feet away — maybe just enough to tell that it was a genuine search warrant.

    The person searched is not allowed to interfere with the search, but maybe they were given the combination to the safe so they wouldn’t break it.

    After it was over, acopy of the search warrant (the part that says what is to be searched and what is to be seized) was presumably left behind or maybe they were emailed them something.

    Trump’s lawyers said they would go into court to get a physical copy (like in case maybe they changed it before emailing it?) They are also going to ask for the other related material, including the affidavit.

    Now Attorney General Merrick Garland says he is going to go into court to get permission to release the warrant.

    The fact of a warrant is normally supposed to be kept secret (to protect the reputation of the person searched, evidently) but, since Trump has already revealed it, and because of the public interest in the matter as stated by the Associated Press, Garland said he’s going to go into court to get authorization release it.

    Trump already has the list of materials removed (however badly or well described.)

    Not the affidavit, but some people are leaking facts about it – like there was an informant at Mar-a-Lago who told the FBI there might be some possibly classified material they might be interested in still there at Mar-a-Lago and he or she could tell them exactly where it was.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:28 pm

  23. @20

    This is you trying to potentially justify the ‘get Trump’ mindset.

    No, this is about a crime, whembly. This may sound trite, but no one is above the law, including presidents and ex-presidents. We’re either a nation that is about the rule of law, or we’re something less palatable. Anyways, your calling it a “raid” tells me, well…something.
    And funny, while you’re telling me I’m speculating, I can’t help but notice your own speculation that the warrant is about J6. I hope you’ll join me in urging Trump to not block Garland’s unsealing the warrant.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:23 pm

    I do join urging Trump’s attorneys to request unsealing the warrant… not only that, but unsealing the affidavit.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:29 pm

  24. Suspect dies during standoff following attempt to break into Cincinnati FBI HQ, police say

    CINCINNATI (WXIX/Gray News) – An hours-long standoff between law enforcement and an armed suspect who tried to break into Cincinnati FBI headquarters Thursday morning and then fled, shooting at state troopers, has ended with the suspect’s death, according to Ohio State Highway Patrol.

    Around 3:40 p.m., OSHP said the man raised a gun at officers, who returned fire. No law enforcement officers or bystanders have been hurt.

    Clinton County EMA Director Thomas Breckel said two medical helicopters were in the area waiting if they were needed and at least one of them was released. Before the standoff, the unidentified armed suspect tried to breach the FBI’s Visitor Screening Facility at its headquarters in Sycamore Township around 9:15 a.m., the bureau said. An alarm went off, prompting armed FBI agents to respond, and the suspect fled onto northbound I-71, the FBI said in a tweet.

    Troopers found the suspect’s vehicle, a Ford Crown Victoria, near the northbound I-71 rest area around 9:37 a.m., where the pursuit began. OSHP said a gunshot was fired from inside the suspect’s vehicle. The pursuit continued until the suspect exited I-71 onto eastbound State Route 73 and then went north on Smith Road, according to OSP.

    The vehicle passed over I-71 on Smith Road, stopped around 10 a.m. near Van Trees Road, and then the suspect exited the vehicle and exchanged gunfire with law enforcement, troopers say. The hours-long standoff ensued until the suspect died.

    OSHP said they are still in process of identifying the deceased suspect. Breckel says both sides of Interstate 71 are back open in Clinton County because authorities have decided it’s far enough away from the standoff scene and is not a risk to the public. State Route 73 and State Route 380 are also back open.

    A lockdown remains in effect for all buildings within a one-mile radius of Smith and Center roads near the standoff scene. People in that area are being told to lock their doors and remain inside, according to Clinton County Emergency Management Agency. The incident comes a day after the FBI director warned against threats circulating online against FBI agents and the Justice Department after the agency’s search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home.

    On Gab, a social media site popular with white supremacists and antisemites, users have warned they are preparing for an armed revolution, the Associated Press said. Officials are tracking social media traffic threatening violence against federal agents. “Violence against law enforcement is not the answer, no matter who you’re upset with,” FBI Director Christopher Wray said Wednesday in Omaha.

    https://www.kmvt.com/2022/08/11/armed-subject-tried-breach-fbi-hq-cincinnati-agency-reports/

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:31 pm

  25. Ah, yes. The O.J. defense. (The cops planted the evidence.)

    norcal (da5491) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:37 pm

  26. This may sound trite, but no one is above the law, including presidents and ex-presidents. We’re either a nation that is about the rule of law, or we’re something less palatable. Anyways, your calling it a “raid” tells me, well…something.

    Trite is polite. No one??? Where have you been for 50 years. Lori Loughlin did more time than Nixon ever did; or Paul Pelosi ever will.

    America has had a multi-tiered ‘rules for thee butg not for me’ justice system for decades. This ‘rule of law’ figleaf is the last vestige of the Royalists lament. Populists aren’t buying that line of crap anymore, or any other Orwellian language manipulation. A recession is a recession; a man is a man; a woman, a woman– and a raid is a frigging raid, with lights flashing and weapons at the ready.

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:40 pm

  27. They are going to try to prosecute this again. (Two people on trial got a hung jury)

    Note that this is not the first time the Feds have gone after a Michigan militia, and the last time they were acquitted of most crimes, too (there may have been ancillary weapons violations).

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:47 pm

  28. Wasn’t there a commenter here, quite recently, urging people to “storm the castle”? Seems a bit irresponsible, if you ask me.

    Jim Miller (85fd03) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:48 pm

  29. This may sound trite, but no one is above the law, including presidents and ex-presidents.

    Tell that to Monica and Paula.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:49 pm

  30. Anyways, your calling it a “raid” tells me, well…something.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:23 pm

    Why can’t we call it a raid? Haven’t we been calling these things raids since forever? What does you not wanting to call it a raid say?

    And tell me that if this wasn’t imploding and the FBI had perp walked Trump you would be the language police?

    frosty (bfb5a6) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:50 pm

  31. No, this is about a crime, whembly. This may sound trite, but no one is above the law, including presidents and ex-presidents

    Well, with all the crimes in the book, one can be found. But that’s not what this is about. Tell me again about Clinton’s arrest for obstruction and perjury.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:51 pm

  32. >> This is you trying to potentially justify the ‘get Trump’ mindset.

    I disagree. I think it’s exploring where the line between where physically seizing the material is justified and where it’s not.

    For example:

    something embarrassing from 1955 that’s still classified and he admitted to having would clearly not justify this.

    The names and posting of physical assets that he denied even having would.

    Time123 (97aeb6) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:51 pm

  33. From the NYT:

    Investigators are looking into whether the man who tried to breach the F.B.I.’s field office in Cincinnati on Thursday had ties to extremist groups, including one that participated in the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, according to two law enforcement officials familiar with the matter.

    The suspect, identified by the officials as Ricky Shiffer, 42, seems to have appeared in a video posted on Facebook on Jan. 5, 2021, showing him attending a pro-Trump rally at Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington the night before the Capitol was stormed

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:54 pm

  34. According to CBS News, if Trump wants to oppose unsealing of the warrant or the receipt, he has until 3 pm, Friday to do so.

    Also, sides of Trump have been questioned in the past about hw he handled classified material.

    It’s only the search warrant itself, which maybe would describe the possible crime, and also list the places to be searched and the items to seized, as well as the receipt of what was taken, which Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked permission to make public. Trump has these two things, and Trump not releasing it may be what Merrick Garland is referring to when he says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/us/politics/garland-fbi-trump-transcript.html

    Third, let me address recent unfounded attacks on the professionalism of the F.B.I. and Justice Department agents and prosecutors. I will not stand by silently when their integrity is unfairly attacked.

    He can’t defend the search or the search warrant very well right now.

    He also said:

    The search warrant was authorized by a federal court upon the required finding of probable cause. The property receipt is a document that federal law requires law enforcement agents to leave with the property owner. The department filed the motion to make public the warrant and receipt in light of the former president’s public confirmation of the search, the surrounding circumstances, and the substantial public interest in this matter.

    The affidavit is another matter. I think it can be released to a defendant or pursuant to a Freedom of Information Act request any time DoJ is willing to do it. Or it can be leaked.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:54 pm

  35. Some of the “chatter” they are reading remind people of what was said before January 6, 2021.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:55 pm

  36. Just mere days after Trump impugns the FBI with a no-evidence accusation that they planted evidence, Ricky Shiffer stormed the Cincinnati FBI office and was gunned down for his efforts.
    It should surprise no one that he had “ties to extremist groups, including one that participated in the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:57 pm

  37. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/yes-her-emails/
    ALL. OF. THIS.

    By MARK ANTONIO WRIGHT
    August 11, 2022 6:43 PM

    “If you’re talking about Hillary Clinton right now,” an old friend of mine wrote on Twitter, “you clearly have no argument.”

    Unfortunately for every American, Hillary Rodham Clinton is very relevant right now.

    Listen, I am no one’s idea of a Trump fan. I didn’t vote for him. And I believe strongly that he should have been convicted by the Senate in January 2021 and shot into outer political darkness for his assault on the Constitution and his complicity in the assault on Congress.

    But anyone — either on the anti-Trump left or the Trump-skeptical right — who thinks that the FBI and Department of Justices’s credibility can survive in the eyes of the average, normie American if it prosecutes Donald J. Trump on very, very similar mishandling-of-classified-documents charges that Hillary avoided with nary a slap on the wrist is naïve to the point of lunacy.

    The FBI better have found that Trump did something truly heinous with classified documents — like pass top-secret material to the Saudis to get a LIV Golf tournament at one of his golf courses or hide the nuclear football under the shoe rack in Melania’s closet — or it better be playing hardball (Andy McCarthy’s theory) and actually investigating his 6 January shenanigans. If this is about enforcing the Presidential Records Act, I have no problem calling this one of the gravest blunders in the history of American law enforcement (that didn’t result in anyone dying, like, ya know, Waco).

    Worst of all, at least from my perspective, if the DOJ and FBI are in the process of bungling this situation by pushing a ticky-tack criminal investigation on Trump — then they have given an enormous in-kind donation to his renomination and reelection campaigns at the expense of turn-the-page possibilities like Ron DeSantis, Tim Scott, or a dozen others.

    Like it or not, those are the cold, hard political facts.

    “But her emails,” our Democratic friends have been mocking conservatives for six years.

    Yes, her emails.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:58 pm

  38. Trump lies! All the time!
    His supporters lie! All the time!
    Thankfully, nobody believes them. They only pretend to.
    If circumstances permit, the FBI “ask” nicely even when they have a warrant.
    Trump holds the record for most lawsuits in the United States. Maybe in the world. “Taking him to court” would be like throwing Brer Rabbit into the briarpatch.
    Oh, yeah, one more thing. Trump lies!

    nk (b82084) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:00 pm

  39. @36

    Just mere days after Trump impugns the FBI with a no-evidence accusation that they planted evidence, Ricky Shiffer stormed the Cincinnati FBI office and was gunned down for his efforts.
    It should surprise no one that he had “ties to extremist groups, including one that participated in the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:57 pm

    Will Farrell’s Anchorman:
    …I don’t believe you.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:00 pm

  40. Tell me again about Clinton’s arrest for obstruction and perjury.

    If you’re talking about Bill Clinton, the guy was impeached and had his law license revoked. As big a scumbag as he was, at least he didn’t have the bad grace to undermine our democracy by lying without end that the 2000 election was stolen and that Al Gore won easily.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:03 pm

  41. The matters at issue included at one point, apparentlyphotos of foreign leaders///

    !!? What’s so secret? The camera? The fact there was a photographer there? The persons he met with? It was just automatically marked classified, along with anything else produced as a result of the meeting? Not everything is like the Israeli Prime Minster meeting with an Arab leader

    …correspondence…

    OK.

    And mementos from his presidency.

    Mementos? Some country or foreign official gave him a book, or other piece of printed writing, or a ring maybe inscribed with a message, and it was stamped classified because of where it came from?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:03 pm

  42. Now FBI delivers SUBPOENAS to Pennsylvania lawmakers after they confiscated Rep Scott Perry’s phone

    The FBI paid visits to multiple Republicans in the Pennsylvania House and Senate Wednesday to look for information on Republican U.S. Rep. Scott Perry and his scheme to install alternate electors in 2020, according to a report.

    The bureau delivered subpoenas and sought information from multiple individuals, sources told PennLive, after his phone was confiscated by agents while he was at an airport with his family and after Mar-a-Lago was raided.

    Some were explicitly told they were not the target of the investigation, the report states, and it seems the bureau was looking for the GOP members to assist their investigation. The FBI and Department of Justice are under intense scrutiny from the Republican party for failing to publicly release a statement on the raid or provide their reasoning for searching Trump’s Florida estate.

    ‘I’m outraged — though not surprised — that the FBI under the direction of Merrick Garland’s DOJ, would seize the phone of a sitting Member of Congress,’ Perry said in a statement to Fox News on Tuesday. My phone contains info about my legislative and political activities, and personal/private discussions with my wife, family, constituents, and friends. None of this is the government’s business.’

    Perry said that while he and his family were traveling earlier Tuesday, he was approached by three FBI agents who handed him a warrant and seized his cellphone. They made no attempt to contact my lawyer, who would have made arrangements for them to have my phone if that was their wish,’ he said.

    Perry, a loyal Trump ally, is an original member of the conservative House Freedom Caucus and took over as the group’s leader at the beginning of the year. He was part of a scheme in Pennsylvania to install fake electors and overturn the certification of President Joe Biden’s win.

    The Jan. 6 committee claimed Perry is one of five Republicans who allegedly sought a pardon for their role in attempting to overturn the election, but Perry has denied ever doing so. While Perry’s phone was taken through a warrant – which would have required the approval of a magistrate judge – the subpoenas handed out to Pa. lawmakers did not require the review of a judge. Still, the lawmakers are required to comply unless they take the matter to court and the subpoena is quashed.

    The confiscation of Perry’s phone comes just one day after FBI agents descended on Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home in Florida in what Perry called in his statement an ‘unnecessary and aggressive action.’ – DailyMail.com

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:04 pm

  43. @28. Don’t be ashamed you’re a Royalist, Jimbo: that’s precisely what the Royalists did: a man’s home is his castle– and they stormed it.

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:07 pm

  44. Another no-evidence accusation from Trumpland:

    Kimberly Guilfoyle to Newsmax: FBI May Have Planted ‘Listening Devices’

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:09 pm

  45. Things taken from the White House were historically considered personal property of the person who had it (unless maybe they were not supposed to be discarded, and these would be real exceptions)

    In 1955, Congress passed a law encouraging the formation of presidential libraries, which recognized that the materials belonged to the former president.

    When Nixon resigned they were afraid he might destroy the tapes, and Congress passed a special law just about Nixon, but it compensated him, per the 5th amendment).

    In 1978 Congress passed the Presidential Records Act which declared that any records belonged to the government. The exact boundaries are probably vague.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:11 pm

  46. With all this conspiracy talk, perhaps it’s time MAGA hats were replaced with tin foil hats.

    norcal (da5491) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:12 pm

  47. Why can’t we call it a raid?

    I didn’t say you couldn’t call it a raid, but words have meaning, and it’s meaning…

    a: a hostile or predatory incursion
    b: a surprise attack by a small force

    …implies a violent assault on MAL, which is misleading as it pertains to what actually occurred. From what I’ve read, FBI knocked, then Secret Service opened the door and then let ’em in without incident.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:12 pm

  48. From a previous thread:

    Allahpundit’s take:
    ……..
    ……..There’s now a non-negligible chance that the sort of lunatic that broke into the Capitol on January 6 to try to effectuate a coup will do something similarly nutty to “avenge” the FBI raid. Violent threats are rampant online this week among the most hardcore Trump cultists and lord knows the man himself relishes seeing his followers spoiling to commit violence in his name. ………
    #########
    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/10/2022 @ 3:46 pm

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:13 pm

  49. 44. That would have to be pursuant to a search warrant, and what for, now, in 2022?

    This is just sild charges.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:13 pm

  50. If I were Trump I’d search the entire property for the bugging devices the fbi planted.

    mg (8cbc69) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:13 pm

  51. Makes me wonder what kind of recordings the NSA has of Trump and MBS. Over what and for how much.

    nk (b82084) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:15 pm

  52. 24 Declassified Government Secrets That You Might Not Know

    https://didyouknowfacts.com/24-declassified-government-secrets-quite-disturbing/

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:17 pm

  53. 14 Declassified Government Documents That Are Actually Terrifying

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/sydrobinson1/declassified-government-documents-terrifying

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:19 pm

  54. 42. U.S. Rep. Scott Perry’s phone as been returned the next day and he was informed he was a witness, and not a target, and he said he would co-operate, but John Eastman is apparently still fighting to get back his phone.

    While this is pursuant to an investigation by the Inspector General of the Department of Justice, prosecutors appear to have take over much of the investigation.

    It can lead to a criminal referral, and they may be working on the theory that attempting to change the election results, however peacefully, and without threats, but just by legal maneuvers, may be a crime.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:20 pm

  55. 10 Ridiculous Documents Released via the Freedom of Information Act

    https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/58674/10-ridiculous-documents-released-through-freedom-information-act

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:21 pm

  56. 8 Famous Classified Documents Way More Interesting Than The JFK Files

    https://www.oddee.com/list/famous-classified-documents-history/

    _______

    The lists are countless. The Royalists classify any crap to legitimize their existence or threatens their turf.

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:25 pm

  57. 51/ Ever since Nixon, very few non-public conversations by U.S. government officials are recorded. They’re allergic to the idea of recording. (but every email message or text message must be saved)

    Semi-exception: There is a record made of talks with foreign officials, but they are made by have an automated transcript made, corrected by notes made by people listening in tot the conversation. That was the case with Trump’s conversations with Zelensky in 2019.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:25 pm

  58. …I don’t believe you.

    That is also the nut of it.
    The FBI has its history and it’s worth being skeptical about ’em but, if there’s a choice, are you going to believe the guy who told tens of thousands of lies while in office (and can’t stop lying about the election he lost, and who impugned the integrity of our electoral process), or federal law enforcement? To me, the choice is easy.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:34 pm

  59. It’s Not Just Trump — LBJ Took Classified Documents Too
    …….
    Remarkably, however, none of the voluminous news coverage about this has mentioned a parallel to Trump’s behavior: When Lyndon B. Johnson’s presidency ended in 1969 and he was replaced by Richard Nixon, Johnson ordered an underling to surreptitiously take highly classified material with him on his administration’s exit.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:39 pm

  60. Attorney General Fife and the U.S. Constitution:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx5d3haRG7M

    No teleprompter!

    DCSCA (945a84) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:40 pm

  61. https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/opinion/report/081122_national_archives_search_op/how-fbi-knew-what-search-mar-a-lago-why-presidential-records-act-essential-tool/

    Diaries and journals are off limits, but any papers to carry out the job are public records.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:41 pm

  62. The good news is J Edgar Jr contradicted at least one part of the authorized to speak on background anonymous source. Maybe the super secret spy narrative is back on.

    frosty (bfb5a6) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:42 pm

  63. In 1969, that was not illegal, or at least removig gvernment recrods was not unless they were supposed to be filed.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:43 pm

  64. 63 refers to 59

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:43 pm

  65. THE saic who circulated he dossier, who planted evidence in Whitmer kidnapping plot – conducted the raid

    EPWJ (cbe1a0) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:53 pm

  66. The thing is, comrades, people fit to be in the White House don’t say “the police planted it”.

    It’s people fit to be in the hoosegow who say “the police planted it”. And not all of those say it. Some have more pride and self-respect than that.

    Trump is a lowlife.

    nk (b82084) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:05 pm

  67. @58 On the other hand you can choose not to believe either one.

    I’m glad you weren’t surprised by Shiffer. If you’d have said you were surprised I’d have been like what!?! and had my shocked face on.

    frosty (bfb5a6) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:07 pm

  68. The Attempt to Prosecute Donald Trump Is Unleashing More Than Our Political System Can Handle

    Horatio (a5ff13) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:25 pm

  69. @66 if your the Re you’ve got to be wondering what went so wrong that you couldn’t keep the base in line and if your the De you’ve got to be wondering why it looks like this guy could clean up in the midterms and beat JB on the next round.

    Whichever of those groups you’re in he has to be a daily reminder of your incompetence. Between De and Re and their minions in the bureaucracy they’ve probably made him fire proof and destroyed their credibility doing it.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:27 pm

  70. Sandy Berger, comrade

    mg (8cbc69) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:27 pm

  71. “Documents relating to nuclear weapons” sound like a good reason to apply for a search warrant, especially after DOJ didn’t get results from a grand jury subpoena.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:33 pm

  72. From the Cincinnati shooter’s apparent Truth Social account.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:45 pm


  73. More from Ricky Shiffer’s Truth Social    .

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:46 pm

  74. @47. …words have meaning, and it’s meaning…

    Pfffft.

    A police raid is an unexpected visit by police or other law-enforcement officers with the aim of using the element of surprise in order to seize evidence or arrest suspects believed to be likely to hide evidence, resist arrest, be politically sensitive, or simply be elsewhere during the day.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_raid#:~:text=A%20police%20raid%20or%20razzia%20is%20an%20unexpected,or%20simply%20be%20elsewhere%20during%20the%20day.%20Contents

    It was a raid, Royalist.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:46 pm

  75. There’s an extremely high probability that MAGA world would call Jesus corrupt before acknowledging the possibility that Donald Trump may have done something illegal. Over and over, as soon as any long-trusted person or institution says or does anything against the interest of the orange god-king, that person or institution is pronounced corrupt.

    One example that I saw personally: Awhile back I pointed out to my Trumpy neighbor that even Bill Barr said he saw no evidence that the election was stolen, and she replied, “He was never trustworthy!” Which is odd, because Trumplandia insisted that his integrity was beyond reproach when he was protecting Trump.

    Of all the strange things that have happened so far this century, one of the weirdest is that so many people made Donald J. Trump their measure of truth and righteousness.

    Radegunda (d85f44) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:50 pm

  76. Ricky Shiffer is Ashli Babbitt of 2022, gunned down based on a Big Fat Trump Lie.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:54 pm

  77. @71. Pfft. Waiting 18 months to retrieve nuclear paperwork? More evidence of Royalists who cannot keep track of important papers you say??? Where’s the leaker???? Check w/t Naval Observatory- 18 months by their atomic clock.

    Even so, who looks more irresponsible- the POTUS staff who backed up the papers and had stuff locked up safely in his compound – or the Royalists who let the stuff get away from them to begion with, a la Alito leaking. For 18 MONTHS.

    If it looks, sounds and smells like Royalist bullsh-t. It’s Royalist bullsh-t.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:57 pm

  78. Guess the Royalists better stop Squinty from showing his classified crib sheets to the cameras!

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:59 pm

  79. More from the WA Post.

    Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former president Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation.

    Experts in classified information said the unusual search underscores deep concern among government officials about the types of information they thought could be located at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and potentially in danger of falling into the wrong hands.

    The people who described some of the material that agents were seeking spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. They did not offer additional details about what type of information the agents were seeking, including whether it involved weapons belonging to the United States or some other nation. Nor did they say if such documents were recovered as part of the search.
    […]
    Material about nuclear weapons is especially sensitive and usually restricted to a small number of government officials, experts said. Publicizing details about U.S. weapons could provide an intelligence road map to adversaries seeking to build ways of countering those systems. And other countries might view exposing their nuclear secrets as a threat, experts said.

    One former Justice Department official, who in the past oversaw investigations of leaks of classified information, said the type of top-secret information described by the people familiar with the probe would probably cause authorities to try to move as quickly as possible to recover sensitive documents that could cause grave harm to U.S. security.

    Sounds serious to me.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:00 pm

  80. It’s like John Carpenter’s The Thing, an excellent retelling of Science Fiction Hall of Fame story “Who Goes There” by John W. Campbell.

    The Thing is an alien creature a small drop of which can infect another living being and take it over. Its weakness, and its downfall, is that every bit that splits off is a new individual. A selfish new individual concerned only for its own survival. So the Thingbusters only need to take one drop from a suspected infected person and poke it with a red hot wire. The drop of blood cannot help but recoil from the wire. It only cares about its own survival and not that of its parent.

    Now let’s name those drops of blood Kevin McCarthy, Elise Stefanik, Ronna McDaniel, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Rand Paul, etc., etc., etc., … and you get the idea.

    nk (1f8e39) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:02 pm

  81. Re 71 (et al)
    There is something I am missing here.
    So lets say that he did have nuclear secrets of any kind.

    So……what? They were probably not originals. They were probably not irreplaceable.
    So what’s the big deal about a copy of a classified power point? Because that’s the only thing that makes much sense to me.

    He probably received lots of classified briefings about secret stuff. I don’t think he has ever mentioned those things in any speeches.

    Only thing that makes sense to me is a copy of a briefing he received on how to launch a nuke. Or his “gold card” that authorization codes?

    Anybody have any significant suggestions what would be soooooooo secret that they would have to recover?

    Joe (76eaa3) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:04 pm

  82. Sounds serious to me.

    To a RINO Royalist it would. Sounds like Royalist bullsh-t to me. Especially as directions so build a basic nuke can be found in any encyclopedia or science textbook. Getting the parts– now THAT’S serious.

    Unless you’re Iranian, eh Joey?

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:05 pm

  83. The Attempt to Prosecute Donald Trump Is Unleashing More Than Our Political System Can Handle

    The political systems of France, Italy, Israel, Iceland, South Korea & others have handled the prosecution of former leaders just fine. I also recall that a recent president campaigned in part on a call to “lock up” his opponent, a former secretary of state.

    I also recall a recent president leading a multifaceted effort to stay in power unlawfully through fraud and eventually a dose of force and intimidation. Trumpites adamantly reject the idea that it veered pretty close to an event our political system was unprepared to handle. Instead, they say that holding Trump accountable for attempting to subvert the constitutional transfer of power is what would kill off the constitutional republic! The irony is thick, to say the least.

    The issue isn’t whether our political system can handle the prosecution of a former president for criminal conduct that would bring a heavy penalty on anyone else. The problem is that so many Americans formed a crazy cult around a former president who will do whatever he thinks he can get away with, and they believe he should be untouchable — and many of those people have already demonstrated a willingness to resort to violence in service to their cult leader.

    Radegunda (d85f44) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:05 pm

  84. Ironic, being called a “Royalist” by a guy who supports such a monarchical ex-president.

    Joe, if it’s confirmed that the documents contain information on nuclear weapons, do you think it’s a good idea that they’re kept in the basement of an elitist’s effing country club?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:16 pm

  85. Revealing nuclear secrets carries the death penalty. So the FBI might, in fact, have saved his orange ass, and who knows who else’s in his vicinity.

    nk (1f8e39) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:19 pm

  86. Re 84:
    Well that’s an interesting question.

    Do you think the president would ever see the design schematics on any weapon system or delivery system? He might know “hey we are working on a burrowing small scale nuclear bunker buster with limited fallout” But that’s not exactly unexpected.
    Or we have a Neutron bomb.

    But in general, he still retains the knowledge that he was given. While they can forcibly recover the docs…. he still knows the information.

    So what gives? It’s such an over reaction that to me, does not make much sense.

    Joe (76eaa3) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:22 pm

  87. And, yes, the Supreme Court left the door open to the death penalty for crimes against the nation, when it limited it to murder for crimes against individuals.

    nk (1f8e39) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:22 pm

  88. Investigators are looking into whether the man who tried to breach the F.B.I.’s field office in Cincinnati on Thursday had ties to extremist groups

    Do tell. This is a surprise? That’s like wondering if the people who stormed the 1968 Democrat convention were associated with the radical left.

    This line of reporting is all about scaring the little old ladies of all ages and sexes.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:24 pm

  89. Memo to Attorney General Fife:

    List of Nuclear Weapons U.S. Has Lost and Never Found

    https://fighterjetsworld.com/air/list-of-nuclear-weapons-u-s-has-lost-and-never-found/6093/

    Get off your ass and on this, NOW— Barney!

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:24 pm

  90. @37: Yes. All of that. And more.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:29 pm

  91. If you’re talking about Bill Clinton, the guy was impeached and had his law license revoked.

    But he engaged in obstruction in his impeachment defense and was never called on it. He harassed witnesses, audited Paula Jones, and lied on the stand. He had his law license suspended for 5 years, but he should have been in jail as long as we are talking about jailing ex-presidents.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:32 pm

  92. @84. And the Royalist RINO blows his horn. It’s a good idea for Royalists to DO THEIR JOBS and keep track of their paperwork– accordingly, where’s the SCOTUS leaker? Raid Alito’s castle, Barney!!! But if you’re pitching it’s fine for the bureaucrats to take 18 months to chase sensitive ‘classified’ documents they supposedly lost track of but are now locked up safely in a POTUS compound, fine by me. Now raid Obama’s castle. And the Reagan Library; and the Nixon Library…

    This is pure political harassment by the Royalist powers that be terrified of the Populists they’ve lost control over.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:33 pm

  93. @59: Johnson was also responsible for destroying the credibility of the United States government, and it wasn’t until Reagan that it was partially restored. In fact the term “credibility gap” was coined to describe the Johnson administrations difficulties with the truth. Remember this is a man who fought a war he KNEW he could not win.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:36 pm

  94. So what gives? It’s such an over reaction that to me, does not make much sense.

    You’re making the unfounded assumption that that such classified documents don’t contain information that is harmful to our national interests if placed in the wrong hands. The information is classified for a reason. If you want to say that there’s too much information that’s classified by our government, then that’s a different conversation, one that we may well agree on.

    Second, Trump has Secret Service protection, for the very reason that a bad actor won’t kidnap him and extract sensitive information, including the nuclear kind.

    Last, I brought up this link in another thread, and here’s the relevant paragraph.

    There is some classified information that is classified not necessarily pursuant to the President’s Article Two constitutional authority as commander in chief and chief official responsible for foreign relations. And the most notable example of that would be information relating to nuclear weapons, atomic energy — that information is protected by virtue of statute. There is other information that’s protected by virtue of statute, for example, the identity of covert U.S. intelligence operatives. That sort of information and other sensitive intelligence sources and methods are protected pursuant to law, not necessarily protected pursuant to the president’s unilateral classification authority. And likewise, there’s some information that we receive from foreign governments that is protected pursuant to international treaty or bilateral treaties, that likewise carry the force of law.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:37 pm

  95. AG Fife reminds me of those terrified Soviet generals shaking at the table on TeeVee as their coup to overthrow Gorby collapsed around them as Gorby returned w/Yeltsin’s blessings, no less. The Deep State is cracking.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:37 pm

  96. But in general, he still retains the knowledge that he was given. While they can forcibly recover the docs…. he still knows the information.

    You saying that you know better than Mr. True President Donald Trump what he needs and what he doesn’t need, Joe? If he took the documents, he had his reasons. What makes you smarter than him?

    nk (a96a1d) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:38 pm

  97. The Attempt to Prosecute Donald Trump Is Unleashing More Than Our Political System Can Handle

    An attempt to prosecute him on weak evidence of weak charges would be an issue. Prosecuting him for conspiracy to commit treason, otoh, would be another matter.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:38 pm

  98. Nuke doc classification is no joke–that’s typically information classifed with a restricted modifier, and thus isn’t subject to the normal declassification rules; the Secretary of Energy is the only one authorized to declassify it. That doesn’t make their classification TS automatically, it just means that a read-in is required to ensure the person looking at the documents has the need to know.

    If those papers actually had nuclear weapons material included in them, this raises questions beyond the sheer sensitivity of the material.

    -Why didn’t the FBI take those documents when they went through the boxes in June, or go through everything with a fine-tooth comb since they had a subpeona? Why did they tell Trump’s lawyers to just put another lock on the door after their search was done (Secret materials don’t have to be in a SCIF as long as they’re in a GSA-approved safe and the door can be fully secured from entry, not even RD or FRD)?
    -Trump didn’t pack those docs up at the White House himself; that was done by the GSA. Why didn’t anyone go through the material at that time to make sure nothing classified was in there in the first place? And why didn’t NARA send over an archivist to oversee the packing?
    -If the GSA packed up those documents, are the people who packed them up going to get dinged for mishandling sensitive nuclear information themselves?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:39 pm

  99. The information is classified for a reason

    Bullsh-t. The Royalists classify so much stupid crap they can’t keep track of it all- as FOIA requests have repeatedly revealed. And the story is likely disinformation anyway, as the Royalist ploy has clearly backfired w/t public.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:41 pm

  100. But in general, he still retains the knowledge that he was given.

    Do you know how much of whatever classified documents may have been in his possession he ever read? Do you know how much of whatever he read he still remembers? Do you really think it would be acceptable national security practice for the FBI to assume that anyone who had ever laid eyes on some indeterminable portion of a trove of classified materials currently wrongfully in their possession had seen and remembered all of it, so we might as well just let them keep it? Do you really think the FBI’s policy shouldn’t be to confiscate all classified material in the possession of anyone not authorized to have it?

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:41 pm

  101. But he engaged in obstruction in his impeachment defense and was never called on it. He harassed witnesses, audited Paula Jones, and lied on the stand. He had his law license suspended for 5 years, but he should have been in jail as long as we are talking about jailing ex-presidents.

    I don’t disagree with any of it. Maybe the difference is that Bill Clinton had his two terms, thus was unable to unleash his slimy sleazebaggery for another presidential run. Instead, he’ll be assessed by historians for decades or centuries to come. I blame Gerald Ford.
    If Trump had just shut his piehole and retired to one of his golf courses, Ford’s precedent might’ve lived on.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:43 pm

  102. Very fine people:

    Temple Beth David has canceled its Beach Shabbat this week under a deluge of antisemitic threats about Bruce Reinhart, the judge who signed the Mar-a-Lago search warrant and sits on the synagogue’s board.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:45 pm

  103. Whistleblowers Raise Grave Concerns with Trump Administration’s Efforts to Transfer Sensitive Nuclear Technology to Saudi Arabia

    https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/Trump%20Saudi%20Nuclear%20Report%20-%202-19-2019.pdf

    Eh, I’m sure it’s a coincidence.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:45 pm

  104. @98. So you’re pitching the Royalists lost track of sensitive documents for 18 MONTHS?????? Christ Almighty- even if true– which is unlikely, they were safer locked up w/Meliana’s panties in the POTUS compound than in the hand of the Royalists who lost them to begin with, weren’t they; the same sort of Royalists who’ve yet to find the SCOTUS leaker.

    Raid Alito’s castle, Barney?! Or you’ll be audited by armed IRS agents!

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:47 pm

  105. @103. And tomorrow, the Royalists will burn the Reichstag and fix blame on Barron playing with matches.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:50 pm

  106. The fbi and Mrs. Trumps drawers should make a great political ad.

    mg (8cbc69) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:58 pm

  107. Why didn’t the FBI take those documents when they went through the boxes in June, or go through everything with a fine-tooth comb since they had a subpeona?

    This presumes that those specific docs were actually with the boxes when they went through them in June. Trump may have extracted them to show his golfing buddies or some powerful and wealthy man that he wanted to impress. It would be very much in line with his character…

    Why did they tell Trump’s lawyers to just put another lock on the door after their search was done…?

    I know that Trump claimed that the DOJ and FBI told his lawyers to put a padlock on the door, but have the agencies confirmed this?

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:00 pm

  108. With all this conspiracy talk, perhaps it’s time MAGA hats were replaced with tin foil hats.
    norcal (da5491) — 8/11/2022 @ 4:12 pm

    the people who asked incessantly “what do they have to hide?!” during the J6 hearings want you to know the FBI has good reason to do their raid without witnesses without cameras and a sealed warrant

    JF (645bee) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:04 pm

  109. A subpoena grants no authority to seize. Only to look at.

    nk (8ab565) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:06 pm

  110. This presumes that those specific docs were actually with the boxes when they went through them in June. Trump may have extracted them to show his golfing buddies or some powerful and wealthy man that he wanted to impress. It would be very much in line with his character…

    Or, the FBI agents were lazy and didn’t do their jobs. That’s just as likely as the scenario you’re presenting, considering they took documents following their June search.

    I know that Trump claimed that the DOJ and FBI told his lawyers to put a padlock on the door, but have the agencies confirmed this?

    His lawyers supposedly got a letter from the DOJ that mentioned it, although they asked for a stronger lock than what was on the door, not a padlock. Maybe the press should be doing their jobs here as well and asking for a copy of that letter, as well as which Secret Service agents installed the new lock.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:08 pm

  111. @DCSCA@99 Because of a specific accident that happened in the life of a family friend, I know the exact place to take down a specific set of power lines to knock out the power grid in a significant portion of 4 states. I don’t think that should be common knowledge (and all of us in my family are keeping our mouths shut.).

    I still don’t see anyone who knows anything, just endless amounts of wild speculation. Maybe someday there will be info and I’ll be able to use it to form an opinion, but right now, everything out there is just wild speculation based on nothing but that person’s own prejudices.

    Nic (896fdf) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:09 pm

  112. A subpoena grants no authority to seize. Only to look at.

    nk (8ab565) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:06 pm

    The agents took out documents following their June search. So why didn’t they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb, if what they’re looking for is classified documents?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:11 pm

  113. the FBI has good reason to do their raid without witnesses without cameras and a sealed warrant

    Well, one reason is that that’s how they’re supposed to do it under the law. Is doing things according to the law a good reason?

    nk (8ab565) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:11 pm

  114. So, what would Trump have kept?

    * Obsolete nuclear launch codes
    * The seat plan for the state dinner with the President of Bolivia
    * The second term budget document
    * NSA intercepts of Hunter Biden
    * NSA intercepts of Melania Trump
    * The tree-lighting ceremony event list
    * Secret climate change study warnings

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:15 pm

  115. More Jonah:

    Just remember: if these reports are true that means that if they can search an ex-president’s home for vital nuclear documents and signals intelligence they can do it to you too.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:16 pm

  116. Well, one reason is that that’s how they’re supposed to do it under the law. Is doing things according to the law a good reason?
    nk (8ab565) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:11 pm

    when all you have is a hammer…

    JF (645bee) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:20 pm

  117. I should have also mentioned that a subpoena is limited to what the witness/deponent/custodian chooses to show the examiner. A warrant is required to rummage for what might not have been tendered.

    And we are talking about the same Donald Trump who not all that long ago was being fined $10,000/day for incomplete compliance with a subpoena in the New York investigation, right?

    nk (8ab565) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:20 pm

  118. Biden: We are so going to prosecute you, Trump!
    Trump: I have recordings of you talking about the Burisma split with Hunter.
    Biden: Those are classified. Give them back!
    Trump: No, and if you indict me they all go to the NY Times.
    Biden: They won’t care.
    Trump: OK, TMZ.
    Biden: We’ll just have to see about that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:22 pm

  119. @107. Did you see images of his desk in the Oval? Cleaner than a hound’s tooth. Trump isn’t a paper jockey guy; doesn’t even do email either. He hires staff to juggle his papers. But if they find Bess Truman’s classified “secret” recipe for tapioca pudding: lock him up! 😉

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:23 pm

  120. Just remember: if these reports are true that means that if they can search an ex-president’s home for vital nuclear documents and signals intelligence they can do it to you too.

    Good thing I don’t have anything to hide.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:23 pm

  121. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:16 pm

    remind me how many days before democracy dies if trump wins

    JF (645bee) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:23 pm

  122. It’s hilarious that so many Trumpers thought “If they can do it to a former president, they can do it to you” was super-scary.

    Radegunda (d85f44) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:25 pm

  123. They weren’t looking for launch codes or the secret tap on Xi’s phone. They weren’t looking for mundane papers that originated in the WH but no one gives a rat’s ass about.

    What they were looking for is any documentation of Trump’s part in the J6 events. They couldn’t say that in the warrant as they had no probable cause. But since it was WH work product, they’d collect it up all the same.

    And Trump says something was planted. Hint: it wasn’t nuclear launch codes.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:28 pm

  124. It’s hilarious that so many Trumpers thought “If they can do it to a former president, they can do it to you” was super-scary.

    It’s hilarious that so many leftists thought “If they can get Ellsberg’s shrink’s files” then they can do it to you.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:29 pm

  125. Fox News reports ‘source’ says “informant” is a Secret Service agent…”well known for their knowledge and understanding of classified nuclear weapons doccumentation, of course.”-=sarc=

    “I suppose we’ll have to kill him.” – Frank Hackett [Robert Duvall] “Network” 1976

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:30 pm

  126. remind me how many days before democracy dies if trump wins

    Remind me when I said something like that in the first place.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:31 pm

  127. remind me how many days before democracy dies if trump wins

    If Trump wins re-election I’d be looking for him to weaponize the Armed Forces and ignore the courts. HE doesn’t know how to do anything by the book, so I expect him to rip up the book.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:31 pm

  128. @ 100.

    Well he hasn’t been arrested (yet). I think everyone would have to admit that if they don’t arrest him, it makes the FBI & AG look foolish. Speculation seems to be universal that this is a slam dunk case. DU is ready for him to get the gas chamber.

    #103, I seem to remember a proposal for giving SA nuclear technology as a foil to Iran in the past. Not sure if i think that’s a great idea. I would think they could buy whatever they want.

    This is all nuts. The DC crowd is energizing the enemy they fear the most. They have to put him in Jail now.

    Joe (76eaa3) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:33 pm

  129. I don’t know which is worse. Whaddaboutism or apologism in response.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:36 pm

  130. Good thing I don’t have anything to hide.

    Uh-oh, have a government pen lifted from the post office and an official government FBI hat an old g/f gave me— a few official NASA government ID tags for lunar sample containers– and have torn off several sofa cushion tags.

    “Come and get me you dirty screw!” – Richard Nixon [David Frye] ‘Richard Nixon: A Fantasy’ Buddah Records, 1973

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:36 pm

  131. On June 14, 2024, Trump will be 78 years old, and he already has demonstrated difficulty in flushing a toilet. I have a feeling that democracy will outlive Trump. Just a hunch. You know.

    Not that we should be complacent. Trust in mitochondrial function decline but tether your camel. Or something like that.

    nk (8ab565) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:42 pm

  132. @111. OTOH, pretty much everybody has seen Sinatra’s Ocean’s 11 Nic– and nobody has knocked over all the Vegas casinos by pulling the power plug on New Year’s Eve. 😉 This is much-ado about nothing; AG Fife overreached- it’s why Barney only has one bullet– and Andy wants it kept buttoned up in his shirt pocket.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:43 pm

  133. @131. On June 14, 2024, Trump will be 78 years old, and he already has demonstrated difficulty in flushing a toilet.

    Then he’s well prepared to give the eulogy at Squinty’s state funeral. 😉

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:45 pm

  134. The agents took out documents following their June search. So why didn’t they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb, if what they’re looking for is classified documents?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:11 pm
    According to the reporting I’ve seen, in June the FBI inspected documents provided by Trump pursuant to a subpoena. They didn’t have a warrant to search for anything not voluntarily turned over. Are you saying they should have searched for more without a warrant — I’m sure that would have gone over well — or are you saying Trump gave them access to everything, and the FBI just didn’t bother searching all of it because they’d already found some classified stuff and they figured that’s probably all of it because they’re not suspicious by nature?

    (Just noticed that nk made the same point more cogently, yet uncharacteristically less snarkily, @117.)

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:46 pm

  135. html snafu. Let’s try again.

    The agents took out documents following their June search. So why didn’t they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb, if what they’re looking for is classified documents?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:11 pm

    According to the reporting I’ve seen, in June the FBI inspected documents provided by Trump pursuant to a subpoena. They didn’t have a warrant to search for anything not voluntarily turned over. Are you saying they should have searched for more without a warrant — I’m sure that would have gone over well — or are you saying Trump gave them access to everything, and the FBI just didn’t bother searching all of it because they’d already found some classified stuff and they figured that’s probably all of it because they’re not suspicious by nature?

    (Just noticed that nk made the same point more cogently, yet uncharacteristically less snarkily, @117.)

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:47 pm

  136. MAGAWorld reacts to Ricky Shiffer: either a false flag or a FBI patsy.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:48 pm

  137. So, what would Trump have kept?

    Cases of POTUS M&M’s

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:51 pm

  138. According to the reporting I’ve seen, in June the FBI inspected documents provided by Trump pursuant to a subpoena. They didn’t have a warrant to search for anything not voluntarily turned over. Are you saying they should have searched for more without a warrant — I’m sure that would have gone over well — or are you saying Trump gave them access to everything, and the FBI just didn’t bother searching all of it because they’d already found some classified stuff and they figured that’s probably all of it because they’re not suspicious by nature?

    If they knew how many boxes were taken out, a careful subpeona would have included all the material in those boxes. So either the FBI didn’t think there was much worth searching for, or they weren’t careful enough about what they were searching, assuming the claims about RD or FRD-level material is actually true.

    And that still doesn’t get to the bottom of why there wasn’t an archivist from NARA at the White House with the GSA to go over the material before it was boxed up. We’re talking a President of the United States that’s on his way out the door, not some GS-7 tour guide–I’d figure that having someone there to go over and extract any official records would be a rather high priority for the head of accessions there.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:53 pm

  139. @DCSCA@132 I’m not talking about a movie, I’m talking about actual real life. They are not the same.

    Nic (896fdf) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:56 pm

  140. aNYONE WIN THIS ARGUMENT YET?

    EPWJ (cbe1a0) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:57 pm

  141. And that still doesn’t get to the bottom of why there wasn’t an archivist from NARA at the White House with the GSA to go over the material before it was boxed up. We’re talking a President of the United States that’s on his way out the door, not some GS-7 tour guide–I’d figure that having someone there to go over and extract any official records would be a rather high priority for the head of accessions there.

    They’re Royalists; bureaucrats; fvck-ups- same genealogy in charge of losing JFK’s brain, several nukes over the years and, of course, the SCOTUS papers. Where’s the leaker? Raid Alito’s castle, AG Fife!

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:57 pm

  142. Tired: “This is an unprecedented invasion into a former president’s affairs”
    Wired: “Why didn’t the FBI crack down sooner”

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:00 pm

  143. Tired: “This is an unprecedented invasion into a former president’s affairs”
    Wired: “Why didn’t the FBI crack down sooner”

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:00 pm

    Woke: “Federal employees don’t have to be competent at their jobs.”

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:02 pm

  144. @139. You’re over playing it, Nic. The Israelis can bring a nuke complex to its knees w/a virus from a $10 thumbdrive. The Royalists classify a lot of extraneous stuff- some legit, but much of the time to protect their own butts from stupid projects gone bad or humiliating waste accounting; FOIAs keep uncovering them as do eventual declassification– when athose who could be held accountable are dead. WE classify too much crap. Start w/Roswell. 😉

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:03 pm

  145. Again you’re assuming all sorts of things. For example, you’re assuming that every document Trump took from the White House was in one centralized collection of boxes, that the FBI knew how many boxes those were, and that Trump didn’t move any of the documents from those boxes after he got to Mar-a-Lago.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:04 pm

  146. “Woke: “Federal employees don’t have to be competent at their jobs.””

    Whose job is it to review all the documents the president takes with him out of the oval office?

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:08 pm

  147. What’s buried with Ivana, AG Fife?? Dig her up! Dig her up!

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:10 pm

  148. What they were looking for is any documentation of Trump’s part in the J6 events. They couldn’t say that in the warrant as they had no probable cause. But since it was WH work product, they’d collect it up all the same.

    Unlikely, Kevin. Very unlikely. “[P]articularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”, remember? Anything seized that is not “responsive” to the warrant will be suppressed and even returned to Trump.

    nk (4ed809) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:13 pm

  149. NeverTrump finding common cause with the Party of Chaos.

    The Fecal Touch.

    Colonel Haiku (946ff3) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:14 pm

  150. Again you’re assuming all sorts of things. For example, you’re assuming that every document Trump took from the White House was in one centralized collection of boxes, that the FBI knew how many boxes those were, and that Trump didn’t move any of the documents from those boxes after he got to Mar-a-Lago.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:04 pm

    And? Until the FBI comes out with a detailed report of how this was carried out since they sought the subpeona, this is what we have to go on.

    Whose job is it to review all the documents the president takes with him out of the oval office?

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:08 pm

    The archivists; it’s what they’re getting paid for, after all–to capture the official records of the President of the United States. Or do you think they just sit at a desk at the NARA office and the documents magically appear in the vaults and the digital copies on the servers on their own? Although there is the Sandy Berger incident, so maybe you have a point about that government employee incompetence there.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:17 pm

  151. nk made the same point more cogently, yet uncharacteristically less snarkily

    Have I been bringing on the snark too much, lurker?

    nk (4ed809) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:18 pm

  152. Rudy Giuliani Promises Revenge Raid of Biden’s House If Trump Wins in 2024
    ………
    “If Trump gets elected [president], the first thing he’ll do is raid every one of Biden’s houses,” he said.
    ………
    “All of a sudden, you’re the first president of the United States who introduced the banana-republic process of prosecuting your predecessor. We’ve avoided it for 240 years. Trump didn’t do it to Hillary. Ford didn’t do it,” he said.

    But Giuliani must have a short memory.
    ………
    (Michael) Flynn’s reaction to the FBI search was similar to Giuliani’s.

    “We have no rule of law in America. We have no faith in the institutions that are suppose [sic] to maintain the rule of law and we have no faith in the people who run these institutions,” Flynn posted on Tuesday. “@realDonaldTrump America has great faith in you. Let’s go get these bastards and Make America Great Again!!!”
    ………
    “We’re going to have to fight fire with fire,” (Steve Bannon) said on Fox News. “The way to do it is win elections, win them overwhelmingly and then use the appropriations process to choke down the FBI and choke down the Justice Department and get to the bottom of who approved this.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:20 pm

  153. Then he’s well prepared to give the eulogy at Squinty’s state funeral.

    Actually, I’d want someone more adept at toilet-flushing for that. Also, for Trump’s.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:20 pm

  154. Whose job is it to review all the documents the president takes with him out of the oval office?

    It’s not like the President takes anything. His people talk to your people.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:23 pm

  155. Rudy Giuliani Promises Revenge Raid of Biden’s House If Trump Wins in 2024

    Don’t start any serials, Rudy.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:23 pm

  156. Have I been bringing on the snark too much, lurker?

    On the contrary. I’m a fan.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:25 pm

  157. Unlikely, Kevin. Very unlikely. “[P]articularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”, remember? Anything seized that is not “responsive” to the warrant will be suppressed and even returned to Trump.

    Things to be seized: “Any remaining WH work product”

    Do you expect it to list all the napkins with doodles on them?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:25 pm

  158. And? Until the FBI comes out with a detailed report of how this was carried out since they sought the subpeona, this is what we have to go on.

    Also, the GSA, if they were doing their jobs when boxing those documents up, should have done an inventory of how many boxes there were, since it would be treated like a normal government household goods shipment, in the event any of them were lost so that Trump could make a “lost HHG” claim on the shipment. Trump would get the carbon copy and the shipper would get the original, with an inventory copy and receipt sent to the White House TMO for the same reason, and so TMO can make the payment to cover the shipping cost.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:25 pm

  159. @DCSCA@144 Area 51 ain’t aliens. 😛

    Nic (896fdf) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:27 pm

  160. “The archivists; it’s what they’re getting paid for, after all–to capture the official records of the President of the United States. Or do you think they just sit at a desk at the NARA office and the documents magically appear in the vaults and the digital copies on the servers on their own? Although there is the Sandy Berger incident, so maybe you have a point about that government employee incompetence there.”

    Remember this, FWO?

    “The National Archives said in a statement that it obtained the boxes in mid-January and that Mr. Trump’s lawyers told the agency that “they are continuing to search for additional presidential records that belong to the National Archives.””

    and

    ““These were turned over to the National Archives at the end of the Trump administration, along with a number of torn-up records that had not been reconstructed by the White House,” according to a statement released by the National Archives at the time. “The Presidential Records Act requires that all records created by presidents be turned over to the National Archives at the end of their administrations.””

    and

    ““The Presidential Records Act is critical to our democracy, in which the government is held accountable by the people,” Mr. Ferriero said. “Whether through the creation of adequate and proper documentation, sound records management practices, the preservation of records or the timely transfer of them to the National Archives at the end of an administration, there should be no question as to need for both diligence and vigilance. Records matter.””

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/07/us/politics/trump-national-archives-documents.html

    The archivists are reliant on the good behavior of the outgoing president. And it went as well as any other process reliant on the good behavior of Donald Trump.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:32 pm

  161. The FBI falsified evidence and lied in pursuit of FISA warrants. In this incident, they told staff to turn off CCTV (which they didn’t) and didn’t not allow anyone to witness their activities. Both unusual. So, why the uproar?

    Richard Wetmore (737a61) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:33 pm

  162. The archivists are reliant on the good behavior of the outgoing president. And it went as well as any other process reliant on the good behavior of Donald Trump.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:32 pm

    You mean after January 6th they still neglected to do their job?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:37 pm

  163. And in case it needs to be pointed out to you again, Dave, Trump is not exactly the first President to not turn official records over to NARA on the way out the door. Are you saying that NARA “relied on the good behavior” of those individuals and got snookered by them, too?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:40 pm

  164. “Also, the GSA, if they were doing their jobs when boxing those documents up, should have done an inventory of how many boxes there were, since it would be treated like a normal government household goods shipment, in the event any of them were lost so that Trump could make a “lost HHG” claim on the shipment. Trump would get the carbon copy and the shipper would get the original, with an inventory copy and receipt sent to the White House TMO for the same reason, and so TMO can make the payment to cover the shipping cost.”

    Such an inventory, if it even existed, would be “One box of misc. documents” and not “One box of Nuclear Secrets”.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:40 pm

  165. “You mean after January 6th they still neglected to do their job?”

    What are you talking about? Their job is to take take custody of the president’s papers when he hands them over at the end of his term.

    “Are you saying that NARA “relied on the good behavior” of those individuals and got snookered by them, too?”

    Yes. If you recall, Trump made such an act a felony.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:45 pm

  166. Such an inventory, if it even existed, would be “One box of misc. documents” and not “One box of Nuclear Secrets”.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:40 pm

    That’s still a record of how many boxes were collected that the FBI should have filled out the subpeona for, Dave.

    “Where’s the HHG form that shows how many boxes were shipped?”
    “It’s right here”

    “Okay, it says there were 15 boxes packed and shipped. We need a subpeona for everything in these 15 boxes.”
    “Here you go.”

    “Here’s a subpeona for everything in these 15 boxes, please bring them out so we can go through them.”
    “Uh, I can only find 12.”
    “It says 15, you need to bring us 15.”

    “He only produced 12, we need a warrant for the other 3.”
    “Here you go.”

    This is basic investigative process, Dave, not putting a man on the moon.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:47 pm

  167. What are you talking about? Their job is to take take custody of the president’s papers when he hands them over at the end of his term.

    So you’re saying that, after what happened on January 6th, they continued to take Trump’s word that he’d turn over everything, after decades of past experience of Presidents failing to do exactly that?

    Yes. If you recall, Trump made such an act a felony.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:45 pm

    So why didn’t the FBI arrest him right then and there in June when it found classified documents in the boxes?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:52 pm

  168. Do you expect it to list all the napkins with doodles on them?

    If that is what is supported by the affidavit containing what their informant told them. And I understand that Judge Reinhardt also took live testimony. They can only ask for what they have probable cause to believe is there.

    nk (d8cc72) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:57 pm

  169. “So you’re saying that, after what happened on January 6th, they continued to take Trump’s word that he’d turn over everything, after decades of past experience of Presidents failing to do exactly that?”

    What else can they do? They don’t have enforcement powers.

    “So why didn’t the FBI arrest him right then and there in June when it found classified documents in the boxes?”

    Your first actual good question of the evening. I think we both know the answer, though.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:59 pm

  170. What else can they do? They don’t have enforcement powers.

    Oh, maybe send an archivist to the White House to go through the records?

    Your first actual good question of the evening. I think we both know the answer, though.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:59 pm

    Considering your answers to the rest were distilled copium, I’m not surprised you deflected on this, too.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:16 pm

  171. @159. LOLOLOLOL Area 51 didn’t even “officially” exist– until 2013– thanks to a FOIA request:

    ‘On 25 June 2013, the CIA released an official history of the U-2 and OXCART projects which acknowledged the existence of Area 51 in response to a Freedom of Information Act request submitted in 2005 by Jeffrey T. Richelson of George Washington University’s National Security Archive. It contains numerous references to Area 51 and Groom Lake, along with a map of the area.’

    Aliens, of course, have their outpost nested in Brandon Falls, Delaware. 😉

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/us/area-51-documents/index.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:17 pm

  172. The archivists are reliant on the good behavior of the outgoing president. And it went as well as any other process reliant on the good behavior of Donald Trump.

    Which one was given the chore of reassembling the SOTU speech Nancy tore up using a government purchased, $47,000 roll of acid-free Scotch tape? 😉

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:22 pm

  173. “Oh, maybe send an archivist to the White House to go through the records?”

    You’re not this naïve. Once again, this requires cooperation from the outgoing administration.

    “Considering your answers to the rest were distilled copium,”

    You’re projecting. The best part of this whole thing is watching the Trumpalos frantically trying to blame everyone other than Trump himself.

    “I’m not surprised you deflected on this, too.”

    Oh come on now, you know the answer. It’s obvious from day 1 of the response to Trump being raided. The fun part is how the response switched once the nature of the secret material was revealed (which the FBI didn’t know about until recently).

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:31 pm

  174. “Which one was given the chore of reassembling the SOTU speech Nancy tore up using a government purchased, $47,000 roll of acid-free Scotch tape?”

    Well they’ve had plenty of practice piecing together Trump’s ripped up notes. At least she didn’t throw her copy in the toilet.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:32 pm

  175. For everyone thinking Trump’s had super top secret nuclear super secrets in his basement in MAL for the last 18 months can you walk through a simple process of how you think that happened?

    Did someone from the DOD or DOE or some other agency stop buy one day and drop them off, then forget about them, then Trump saw them when he was strolling to the kitchen for some ice cream and thought they’d come in handy down the road?

    Or did Trump call up the DOD on his POTUS phone and just tell them to bring over a bunch of secrets and just leave them in the corner and he’d let them know when to come back for them?

    If these are so top secret wouldn’t someone be keeping track of them on a shorter timeline than 18 months? Wouldn’t someone have a log of what was brought to the WH and know what didn’t come back? I check out a book from the library and those ladies never lose track of that.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:33 pm

  176. Do you expect it to list all the napkins with doodles on them?

    Okay, Attorney General Fife, storm a real castle— in Britain!

    Retrive Ronnie’s doodles! Get your ass in gear, Barney!

    Thatcher kept Reagan’s doodles

    CAMBRIDGE, England – Margaret Thatcher was so fascinated by President Ronald Reagan that she snatched and kept a page of his doodles from a G7 summit, the former British prime minister’s newly released papers reveal.

    The page of ink drawings is among personal papers from 1981 released Saturday by the Thatcher archive at Cambridge University. Reagan left the piece of paper sitting on a table at the meeting near Ottawa, Canada, in July 1981. It is adorned with a scribbled eye, a man’s muscular torso and several heads, including one that looks like a self portrait.

    “She told me it was fascinating to see it, and she just grabbed them,” said historian Chris Collins of the Margaret Thatcher Foundation. “He just left it on his desk. She snaffled it up, put it in her papers, brought it back to Downing Street and kept it in her flat.” [MAGGIE THE CAT– BURGULAR!!!!]

    Cary Cooper, a psychologist at Lancaster University in northern England, said Thatcher’s souvenir provided an insight into the president’s state of mind during the summit – he was bored.

    “Here’s a body, there’s a head separate from the body,” Cooper said. “Is he so unenamored with what’s going on that he’s having an out-of-body experience?

    “The eye means I’m watching what’s going on, I’m observing, but I’m not altogether there.” The documents confirm the immediate warmth between the two conservative leaders, who forged a strong anti-communist alliance during the 1980s. But they also reveal a lesser-known story – the lengths the U.S. administration went to distance itself from Thatcher’s then-unpopular government, which was facing a recession, rising unemployment and inner-city riots.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2012/03/thatcher-kept-reagans-doodles-074128

    Talk about a national security breach!!!! Thank God she didn’t grab a stool sample to analyze his poop for allergies and jellybean droppings.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:35 pm

  177. I expect the odds are less than 50-50 that the search warrant will be released tomorrow-it’s not in Trump’s interest to do so, especially if it contains embarrassing or incriminating information ( that’s why warrants are generally kept secret during investigations.) . By keeping it secret Trump can continue to rail against the FBI. (Of course, Reinhart can release it on his own authority, or any of judges hearing media lawsuits can do so.)

    But then again, it wasn’t the FBI or DOJ that announced the search. It was Trump.

    We’ll find out by 12 noon PST. However, the affidavit supporting the warrant won’t be released anytime soon.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:35 pm

  178. @174. At least she didn’t throw her copy in the toilet.

    That’s arguable: it was a joint session of Congress. 😉

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:37 pm

  179. The fun part is how the response switched once the nature of the secret material was revealed (which the FBI didn’t know about until recently).

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:31 pm

    Where has this been revealed? I thought we were still waiting for the warrants to be unsealed Monday.

    The best part of this whole thing is watching the Trumpalos frantically trying to blame everyone other than Trump himself.

    Speak for yourself. I’d say the best part is watching NeverTrump wallow in conspiracy theories about Chinese spies and nuclear secrets while flinging poo at anyone who disagrees with them and calling them conspiracy theorists.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:39 pm

  180. That’s 12 noon PDT.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:39 pm

  181. But then again, it wasn’t the FBI or DOJ that announced the search. It was Trump.

    Have you seen the video? Heard the audio? It pretty much announced itself, Royalist Rip.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:39 pm

  182. Royalist Rip.

    A shockingly unoriginal nickname, BAF (Blame America Firster) DCSCA, but one I accept. Better a royalist than a deplorable.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:46 pm

  183. OMG!!!!! NUCLEAR DOCUMENTS TAKEN FROM WHITE HOUSE END UP IN BOSTON?!?!

    This folder contains material collected by the office of President John F. Kennedy’s secretary, Evelyn Lincoln, concerning Cuba. Materials consist of notes and doodles from conference and Cabinet meetings regarding Cuba and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Also included in this folder is a clipping from Parade magazine dated November 10, 1974 announcing the release of documents related to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    Papers of John F. Kennedy. Presidential Papers. President’s Office Files.

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/JFKPOF/115/JFKPOF-115-009

    Hop to it, Attorney General Fife. Raid the JFK Library! Move your ass, Barney!

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:50 pm

  184. @182. Better a royalist than a deplorable.

    … weeped General Burgoyne as he was forced to surrender himself and his 6,000 Royalist redcoats to the deplorable populists, the patriots at losing the Battle of Saratoga in disgrace.

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:56 pm

  185. I’d like to take this moment to remind people that Trump is not actually stupid (even if it might seem that way sometimes). He’s a very skilled marketer and his belief seems to be that he can market his way into or out of anything (which is a bit odd, but has been proven mostly true so far). He is not stupid.

    Nic (896fdf) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:10 pm

  186. Apparently (as of now) Trump will agree to the release of the search warrant (right up to point he talks to his lawyers and changes mind).

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:10 pm

  187. “Apparently (as of now) Trump will agree to the release of the search warrant (right up to point he talks to his lawyers and changes mind).”

    What’s funny about the linked post is that Trump himself could release the warrant right now and get the jump on the FBI/DOJ.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:12 pm

  188. Mr. Kerr paraphrases Trump’s comment about not opposing the unsealing of the warrant.

    I take the bold stance of encouraging the release of the documents . . . that I have in my hand and have declined to show you.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:17 pm

  189. Here’s an update on what the FBI took from MAL…

    Sources tell me the FBI took dozens of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago including TS/SCI information. That stands for Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information. It is among the most top secret level.

    The top secret classified documents were found in former President Trump’s office above the ballroom and a storage room off an interior hallway near the pool.

    The storage room – I am told – is about 10×6 feet and there “were boxes everywhere.”

    Yeah, the warrant was justified.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:22 pm

  190. Civil Servants Monthly
    Volume H-166-1294.967
    December, 2021

    Domestics, page 37

    Beau Zeaux Gets Promotion

    After a successful assignment at the White House overseeing the removal and shipment of Trump administration documents to the former president’s secure, Mar-A-Lago compound in Florida, archivist Beau Zeaux has accepted a new assignment as archivist to the United States Supreme Court. He will oversee document security and be working out of Justice Samuel Alito’s offices. 😉

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:29 pm

  191. ………
    What’s funny about the linked post is that Trump himself could release the warrant right now and get the jump on the FBI/DOJ.

    Davethulhu (a94860) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:12 pm

    I’m still sticking to my prediction that he won’t.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:37 pm

  192. @189 So, we’re back to anonymous sources. We started Tuesday with a story about a Trump appointed judge that turned out not to be true. Then we got anonymous background leaks saying this wasn’t approved by Garland, which wasn’t true, and was about presidential documents that should have gone to the archives, which hasn’t been confirmed or denied. Now we’ve got more anonymous sources, this time relayed via Twitter, who are telling us this was TS/SCI stuff, which isn’t really new since anonymous sources have been feeding that one from the start.

    We’ve also been told by reliable sources that Trump would fight releasing the warrant which doesn’t seem to be happening.

    Have you considered maybe waiting until we’ve got more info? Or maybe getting some counseling? Because the TS/SCI story doesn’t smell any better today than it did on Tuesday.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:40 pm

  193. OT: Anne Heche “Not Expected To Survive” After Severe Brain Injury, Will Be Taken Off Life Support

    Anne Heche’s family and friends had been hoping for a miracle following the Emmy-winning actor’s horrific car crash last Friday. It didn’t come, and her closest ones are making the difficult decision to take her off life support after she was pronounced brain dead. She is being kept on a ventilator until it’s determined whether any organs not damaged in the crash and subsequent fire can be donated.

    “We want to thank everyone for their kind wishes and prayers for Anne’s recovery and thank the dedicated staff and wonderful nurses that cared for Anne at the Grossman Burn Center at West Hills hospital,” a rep for Heche’s family and friends told Deadline.

    “Unfortunately, due to her accident, Anne Heche suffered a severe anoxic brain injury and remains in a coma, in critical condition. She is not expected to survive. “It has long been her choice to donate her organs and she is being kept on life support to determine if any are viable.’

    https://deadline.com/2022/08/anne-heche-brain-dead-injury-taken-off-life-support-1235090375/

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:44 pm

  194. Have you considered maybe waiting until we’ve got more info? Or maybe getting some counseling?

    Yes and no, in that order. He cited multiple sources.
    You’ve already made your default position clear that anything from DOJ is suspect, which is right in line with the far less trustworthy Trump camp.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:46 pm

  195. Have you considered maybe waiting until we’ve got more info?

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:40 pm

    You have no shame. I’ve been saying that from the outset and you’ve been ridiculing it.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:58 pm

  196. If that is what is supported by the affidavit containing what their informant told them. And I understand that Judge Reinhardt also took live testimony. They can only ask for what they have probable cause to believe is there.

    “Seven boxes of WH documents”

    They opened his safe. Are you telling me they had testimony about the contents of the safe, down to a list? If they had listed “money” it would not cover “$7000 in hundred dollar bills”? Are they unable to take the bloody murder weapon they happened across?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:58 pm

  197. @194 Does he do that somewhere else? Because what you quoted, and linked to, literally says

    Sources tell me

    That is not citing multiple sources. Do you have any idea who those sources are? Again, I know anonymous sources are the NeverTrump gold standard but they’ve been letting you down lately.

    That’s not even claiming sources close to the investigation or sources authorized to speak or some other nonsense.

    And when you read 10×6 room and boxes were everywhere it doesn’t strike you as odd? A 10×6 room isn’t that big and it’s not like a bunch of bankers boxes wouldn’t be everywhere. One of the ways to spot a lie is it has these little embellishments. They’re there to distract you with details and make you think it’s more credible. This little detail is there to play into your bias because of course Trump would have boxes everywhere. It’s just the disorganized chaotic type of guy you envision him to be what with the rummaging through the boxes to find secrets to sell.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:05 pm

  198. Why would Trump have nuclear documents? Are they just saying they put those on the list to cover their asses? Or did they find some? In which case, again, why would Trump have those?

    I can see Trump taking things that were personal, or related to others he met. I can see him taking blackmail material, either to control others or to provide a MAD defense. But WTF use to him are nuclear secrets?

    That treason case might be a little stronger now.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:09 pm

  199. You have no shame. I’ve been saying that from the outset and you’ve been ridiculing it.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:58 pm

    I absolutely have not. Find one example where I did what you’ve claimed. You can’t. I’ve been ridiculing comments that are playing into every sort of conspiracy theory and pointing out what we know so far.

    And you didn’t actually say that from the outset. You said that because we didn’t know Kevin couldn’t rule out any of the TS/SCI speculation. You haven’t been saying wait and see. You been saying wait and see with an asterisk.

    Nic has said wait and see. Time switched to something close to wait and see. Kevin has been making reasonable speculations based on information we know or that has been leaked.

    You are in the same boat with Paul and you want to dip into the natsec storyline.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:12 pm

  200. Memo to Attorney General Fife:

    Smile more, Royalist.

    How the USSR Collapsed on Soviet TV

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgT-wR29aIU

    DCSCA (0c2e16) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:17 pm

  201. Are they unable to take the bloody murder weapon they happened across?

    Depends. They can only take it if they see it in plain view while searching somewhere the warrant permits them to be. If either they’re in the wrong place or the weapon is they can’t take it.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:21 pm

  202. And you didn’t actually say that from the outset. You said that because we didn’t know Kevin couldn’t rule out any of the TS/SCI speculation. You haven’t been saying wait and see. You been saying wait and see with an asterisk.

    Nic has said wait and see. Time switched to something close to wait and see. Kevin has been making reasonable speculations based on information we know or that has been leaked.

    You are in the same boat with Paul and you want to dip into the natsec storyline.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:12 pm

    That’s BS. From the outset I said, and have repeated several times since, that we won’t know the answers to what everyone’s been arguing about until we see the warrant, the probably cause affidavit, and the results of the search. That was implicit when I criticized Kevin for getting over his skis, and I made it explicit four comments later in answering your disagreement with that criticism (“I can imagine any number of hypotheticals under which I’d object to the search, and any number that would justify it. And I don’t anticipate getting any closer to either conclusion without more facts, including one or more of (1) the text of the warrant; (2) the text of the affidavit; and (3) the results of the search”).

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:10 am

  203. (Here’s the link to that last comment. I’m putting it here because I assume multiple links in a single comment can still send it to moderation?)

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:10 am

  204. And in response to your mischaracterization of my “wait and see” position as “all is well,” I made my position clear again (“I don’t have the evidence yet that’s required to draw meaningful conclusions, and neither do you”).

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:14 am

  205. Law degrees fog common sense. This was the stupidest political move by a clearly weak and fearful administration with a midterm bloodbath just 90 days off since The Big Dick pulled the trigger on the Saturday Night Massacre.

    That backfired, too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre

    DCSCA (425538) — 8/12/2022 @ 1:01 am

  206. Trump sold classified nuclear files to saudia arabia with jared kushner and his company as the go between. This is why he says material was planted.

    asset (cea129) — 8/12/2022 @ 2:08 am

  207. @206. Trump sold classified nuclear files to saudia arabia with jared kushner and his company as the go between. This is why he says material was planted.

    Uh-huh…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUJMaYzh6U

    “One, two…. I was born in a crossfire hurricane…”

    FBI Attorney Admits Altering Email Used for FISA Application During “Crossfire Hurricane” Investigation

    Former FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith, 38, pleaded guilty today in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to a false statement offense stemming from his altering of an email in connection with the submission of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (“FISA”) application, announced John H. Durham, Special Attorney to the Attorney General. Pursuant to the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act), the guilty plea proceeding occurred via videoconference before U.S. District Judge James E. Boasberg.

    According to court documents and statements made in court, between July 2015 and September 2019, Clinesmith was employed with the FBI as an Assistant General Counsel in the National Security and Cyber Law Branch of the FBI’s Office of General Counsel in Washington, D.C. On July 31, 2016, the FBI opened a Foreign Agents Registration Act investigation, known as “Crossfire Hurricane,” into whether individuals associated with the Donald J. Trump for President Campaign were coordinating activities with the Russian government. By August 16, 2016, the FBI had opened cases under the Crossfire Hurricane umbrella on four individuals, including an individual identified in this case as “Individual #1.”

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/fbi-attorney-admits-altering-email-used-fisa-application-during-crossfire-hurricane#:~:text=On%20July%2031%2C%202016%2C%20the%20FBI%20opened%20a,Campaign%20were%20coordinating%20activities%20with%20the%20Russian%20government.

    New FBI document confirms the Trump campaign was investigated without justification 5/27/20

    Late last week the FBI document that started the Trump-Russia collusion fiasco was publicly released. It hasn’t received a lot of attention but it should, because not too long from now this document likely will be blown up and placed on an easel as Exhibit A in a federal courtroom.

    The prosecutor, U.S. Attorney John Durham, will rightly point out that the document that spawned three years of political misery fails to articulate a single justifiable reason for starting the “Crossfire Hurricane” investigation.
    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/499586-new-fbi-document-confirms-the-trump-campaign-was-investigated-without/

    DCSCA (87bdab) — 8/12/2022 @ 2:33 am

  208. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:10 am

    Yes. That’s the sequence where you latched on to a comment thread in the middle and then later pretended you didn’t understand the context. So, now you’re complaining about being mischaracterized and you link to an example where you mischaracterize someone else.

    Here’s your quote from your previous comment:

    I’m not saying the search was for TS/SCI documents. I’m saying you don’t know that it wasn’t.

    This is you trying to have your cake and eat it too. That is you playing wait and see with an asterisk.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 4:59 am

  209. If the reporting that the DOJ was seeking top secret information related to nuclear weapons is accurate, and if it’s accurate that they had previously requested the information be returned is accurate, then the actions of the DOJ could be reasonable.

    Time123 (a1d44d) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:35 am

  210. All the lies and misdirection have come from the Trump camp. And resonate only with the Trump camp.

    What I’m wondering about (who wouldn’t?) is the story that the FBI rummaged through Melania’s undergarments. Where did that story come from? And would they be Melania’s if they’re XXXL size, and is that — ladies’ underwear in XXXL — what Donald Trump, not Melania Trump, really wants to believe was planted by the FBI?

    nk (23bf78) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:38 am

  211. That is not citing multiple sources. Do you have any idea who those sources are? Again, I know anonymous sources are the NeverTrump gold standard but they’ve been letting you down lately.

    He said he confirmed it from multiple sources. This is Journalism 101, frosty.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:41 am

  212. Seth Barrett Tillman
    @SethBTillman
    “The rationale being offered via anonymous sources is that Trump had the US nuclear codes in some
    unsecured boxes on his Mar-a-Lago facility. And the administration negotiated with Trump for the return of these docs and delayed serving a warrant for over 1.5 years.

    Makes sense!“

    Colonel Haiku (946ff3) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:47 am

  213. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:14 am

    So, let’s review;

    You criticized Kevin for speculating. But gave Paul a pass. Am I remembering that correctly. Now, Paul is making blanket assertions based on “sources” claimed in a tweet. I criticize that for exactly the reason you claim you were criticizing Kevin. Instead of taking your claimed position you run interference for Paul by criticizing me.

    Is there a pattern here? Is there some reason you’re defending the wild speculations of the natsec narrative while lecturing people on speculation? To paraphrase Paul, what does “You have no shame” mean to you?

    frosty (c743ac) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:49 am

  214. Common cause with the pud pulling Party of Chaos, NeverTrump.

    The insurrection is in your pants.

    Colonel Haiku (946ff3) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:51 am

  215. CH, I agree with the concern that they may not have acted quickly enough if the information related to our nuclear program. A timeline of what the DOJ knew/reasonably suspected would be good.

    As many have pointed out, forcibly taking the documents from Trump isn’t a trivial act and they certainly wouldn’t act as quickly towards him as they would have towards you or I. But if they let the political considerations about how his scumbag supporters would react slow them down too much that’s a real problem.

    Time123 (a1d44d) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:55 am

  216. But WTF use to him are nuclear secrets?

    That treason case might be a little stronger now.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:09 pm

    Here’s the story we’re being asked to believe. That Trump, who, we’re told by reliable sources, is an incompetent oaf, a serial liar, an idiot, etc., stole top secret information of the kind closely guarded because of its sensitivity while under the near constant watch of the SS, various Marines, and other military and civilian personnel. He then stashed this info in a basement for 18 months while working to do something treasonous with it.

    We’re being asked to believe RussiaGate 2 minus the hookers.

    frosty (c743ac) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:59 am

  217. As the stories – like this one – are issued, full of the usual “those familiar or close to the situation” anonymous sources that have failed the “news sources” so many times in the past, one may be excused for wondering just how far these Feeb clowns will take this comedy.

    Colonel Haiku (946ff3) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:07 am

  218. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:20 pm

    The milksop kid in the sailor suit got pantsed on the playground. And, with tears running down his face and snot bubbling out of his nose is yelling “I’m gonna kill you! I’m gonna tell my mommy! I’m gonna kill you!”

    nk (23bf78) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:07 am

  219. This corrupt and rotten Biden Administration and its douchebag supporters…

    Colonel Haiku (946ff3) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:10 am

  220. He said he confirmed it from multiple sources. This is Journalism 101, frosty.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 5:41 am

    Yes, sadly, it is J101.

    Where? He didn’t do that in the part you quoted. Was it buried in the tweet thread somewhere? Because that would also be J101.

    The last batch of “sources” turned out to be wrong yesterday. Now we have another round. But you still have no idea who these sources are other than they confirm what you want to believe.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:12 am

  221. Instead of taking your claimed position you run interference for Paul by criticizing me.

    I had nothing to do with it. Lurker was defending your attack on him, and his excerpt makes plain how you mischaracterized his comment.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:13 am

  222. More Journalism 101…

    “Some senior Republicans have been warned by allies of Mr. Trump not to continue to be aggressive in criticizing the Justice Department and FBI over the matter because it is possible that more damaging information related to the search will become public.”

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:17 am

  223. You’ve already made your default position clear that anything from DOJ is suspect, which is right in line with the far less trustworthy Trump camp.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:46 pm

    BTW; it doesn’t matter what I believe or what my position is. You’ve made a statement of fact. You should be able to support it. People having a bias against a position is exactly why you should be able to back up a statement of fact with actual facts.

    Switching to an adhom is a good indication that you can’t do that.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:24 am

  224. FoxNews, specifically Kilmeade, should retake Journalism 101…

    During Thursday’s broadcast of Tucker Carlson Tonight, fill-in host Brian Kilmeade mentioned the Florida judge who approved the search warrant used by the FBI to raid Mar-a-Lago on Monday and who has subsequently faced death threats for doing so. During Kilmeade’s commentary, however, a fabricated image of two separate photographs appeared on screen depicting the judge on an airplane receiving a foot massage from convicted sex offender Ghislaine Maxwell. During the handoff to Sean Hannity’s show, Hannity pointed out that the image was digitally altered. “I think that’s actually a picture of Jeffrey Epstein with somebody putting [the judge’s] head on there,” he said. As Snopes pointed out, the judge’s upper body was substituted for Epstein’s.

    It says something that Hannity–who guy trafficked in the bogus Seth Rich story enough to cause FoxNews to pay the family a seven-figure settlement–is the paragon of journalistic integrity here.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:25 am

  225. Boy, the story is changing.

    I don’t buy what media’s “sources say” is saying now, that there were some “nuclear documents” at MAL.

    Its such an incendiary claim that warrants tons of Mortons because it seriously looks like the FBI/DOJ is panicking and spinning for their lives.

    But, lets say there is some smoke here…

    How stupid do you have to be to leak that Trump has nuclear documents? If it’s true, you’ve just told every world power where to find that intelligence.

    The government lost track of nuclear secrets for 18 months? That’s bad. Trump might have them? That’s horrifying. That this raid was done w/o the knowledge of the Whitehouse about some errant nuke doc? Sheer incompetence. Someone in the DOJ/FBI just told a reporter that those documents are unsecured and with Trump and that reporter just told the whole world? Outstanding guys.
    ** golf claps for everyone **

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:27 am

  226. Quote: “It’s sort of creepy watching you, and some others here, fall all over yourselves white-knighting the FBI and IRS, etc. Jackboot authoritarians seem to be popular.”

    Your Trump-aligned sentiments about the FBI are patently clear, frosty.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:31 am

  227. So on this, the Fourth Day of The Pantsing of MAGA, I have developed a clearer view of the “Unprecedented”.

    The 43* former Presidents who were never raided by the FBI, were still too exalted to reach for even as exes. They still retained the gravitas, the dignitas, the prestige, the status, the power and the pull of their former office. High up on the tree.

    Trump is windfall. On the ground. Blown off the tree. And that’s the way it is.

    *Yes, 43.

    nk (23bf78) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:48 am

  228. @226 And you’re still trying personal criticisms as an excuse for not backing up your statements. Why is that?

    Are you not going to backup your claims because I’m a meanie pants and you don’t like what I say about the FBI people behind this raid?

    If your position, and the truth of your statements, depends on someone already agreeing with you then you don’t have a strong argument.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:55 am

  229. frosty, your comment was cut-and-pasted, but your attempt to slither out of it is, uh, interesting.

    BTW, while on the subject of photoshopping, this one looks like a deepfake.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:59 am

  230. Whembly, I share your concerns. It’s seems like nuclear secrets would be seized right away. I know a lot of stuff is over classified, but if that we’re the case why the need to seize it at all through this process.

    There was reporting from Newsweek that the FBI got information from a CI, so I suppose it’s possible the DOJ Reached a point where they weren’t sure what Trump had, which might explain the search.

    One quibble to pick with your comment, since the search is over we’re not telling other powers where anything currently is.

    Very interested to learn more as details emerge.

    Time123 (b0b8ea) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:04 am

  231. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:25 am

    I really don’t like Hannity or Kilmeade so I know I’m going to regret stepping into this one but;

    Hannity isn’t a journalist. He’s infotainment. He’s opinion for however many minutes they give him. If you want to strawman him as a paragon of journalistic integrity knock yourself out. If you actually think he’s a journalist that certainly reframes some your earlier comments and explains some things.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:08 am

  232. @212. So their pitch is the ‘government’ losdt track of critical nuke codes for 18 months??? Was Leaker Alito in charge of them, too???

    Memo to Attorney General Barney Fife:

    ‘The Gold Codes are the launch codes for nuclear weapons provided to the president of the United States in his role as commander-in-chief of the armed forces. In conjunction with the nuclear football, the Gold Codes allow the president to authorize a nuclear attack. Gold Codes, as well as a separate nuclear football, are also assigned to the vice president in case the president is incapacitated or otherwise unable to discharge the duties of office pursuant to the Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Gold Codes are arranged in a column and printed on a plastic card nicknamed “the biscuit.”

    The card’s size is similar to that of a credit card, and the president is supposed to carry it on his person. Before it can be read, an opaque plastic covering must be snapped in two and removed.

    Gold Codes are generated daily and provided by the National Security Agency (NSA) to the White House, The Pentagon, United States Strategic Command and TACAMO. For an extra level of security, the list of codes on the card includes codes that have no meaning, and therefore the president must memorize where on the list the correct code is located. The concept behind the codes is that they permit the president to positively identify themself as the commander-in-chief and thereby authenticate a launch order to the National Military Command Center (NMCC)

    Should the president decide to order the launch of nuclear weapons, the president would be taken aside by the carrier of the nuclear football and the briefcase would be opened. The president would then decide which attack options (specific orders for attacks on specific targets) to use. The attack options are preset war plans developed under OPLAN 8010, and include major attack options (MAOs), selected attack options (SAOs) and limited attack options (LAOs). The chosen attack option and the Gold Codes would then be transmitted to the NMCC via a special secure channel.

    Stephen Schwartz, an independent nuclear policy consultant, explained in 2018: “Once [the president’s] identity is verified, he gives the order and it is transmitted down the chain of command. The chain of command goes from the president through the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and then, if we’re using long-range weapons, down through the Strategic Command, then the order is relayed to our forces in the field. It always happens extremely quickly.”

    As commander-in-chief, the president is the only individual with the authority to order the use of nuclear weapons. [Which should have you all pooping your pants as Dementia Joe is in charge of it.] The president and another high-ranking official, such as the vice president or secretary of defense, must jointly authenticate the order to use nuclear weapons. Nuclear-defense policy expert Franklin Miller states that the president has almost single authority to initiate a nuclear attack; though the secretary of defense is required to verify the order, they cannot legally veto it. However, Section 4 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment of the Constitution allows for the vice president, together with a majority of cabinet heads or Congress, to declare the president disabled or unfit to execute the duties of the office.’

    – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Codes

    Got that, Barney??? The nuke codes change daily. Try another excuse.

    DCSCA (604be0) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:26 am

  233. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:35 pm

    The reason I don’t think Trump will acquiesce in releasing the search warrant is that his overnight statement is another example of his passive aggressive personality:
    he wants to go to the Capitol, but blames the Secret Service for not doing so; he wants to replace his acting AG, but doesn’t out of fear of public reaction; he wants to appoint Sidney Powell to investigate election “fraud” but doesn’t take the necessary steps to formalize the appointment; he wants to prosecute HRC but does nothing, etc.

    Nic noted he was a skilled marketer. It’s called bail and switch.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:30 am

  234. The US Has Lost Six Nuclear Weapons. So Where The Hell Are They?

    https://www.iflscience.com/the-us-has-lost-six-nuclear-weapons-so-where-the-hell-are-they-47457

    Where are they AG Fife???

    Mar-A-Lago, right, Barney?!

    DCSCA (604be0) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:33 am

  235. frosty, your comment was cut-and-pasted, but your attempt to slither out of it is, uh, interesting.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:59 am

    Slither out?

    It’s sort of creepy watching you, and some others here, fall all over yourselves white-knighting the FBI and IRS, etc. Jackboot authoritarians seem to be popular.

    Just so there is no confusion, that doesn’t have any quotes and it’s not block quoted. That’s me repeating the statement you’re lying about.

    Any news on those citations of multiple sources? And since we’re being so extra careful to not mischaracterize anything. You said “he cited multiple sources“ not “he cited multiple [anonymous] sources”.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:35 am

  236. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220804-the-lost-nuclear-bombs-that-no-one-can-find

    A government of Barney Fifes, Jacques Clouseaus, Mister Magoos and Squinty McStumblebums.

    And 189 of them can’t be bothered to show up for work today vote to raisde your taxes, spend nearly $800,000,000 and hire an 87,000 armed IRS Army to shake Aunt Emma down for her yard sale money.

    Yep, that’s ‘democracy.’

    … and Putin smiled as Xi grinned with glee.

    DCSCA (604be0) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:42 am

  237. Under the heading of what else could possibly go wrong:

    New York judge rules criminal case against the Trump Organization and former CFO Allen Weisselberg can proceed

    I wonder how much time in prison Weisselberg would be willing to spend in order to protect his boss?

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:43 am

  238. You’re still slithering, frosty. You said those words. That’s just a fact.

    “I’m a journalist,” he told me. “But I’m an advocacy journalist, or an opinion journalist.”
    –Sean Hannity, November 2017

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:44 am

  239. @238. Don’t be confused — Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson are not journalists

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/07/18/sean-hannity-tucker-carlson-not-journalists-talker/796026002/

    Ducks. Barrel.

    DCSCA (604be0) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:48 am

  240. The nuclear codes are changed every day – and when a president leaves office, his device is disabled at noon January 20.

    Naturally, Trump would have had them at the time of the inauguration – he wasn’t in Washington. He was on a plane, or in Florida, already.

    If they suddenly decided they wanted some electronic device back, they probably never asked for it. Or they did ask about it, and were told by an “informant” where it was, since Trump had told his people to co-operate.

    The last formal contact between Trump and the government about records etc is said to have been on June 22 (when they got handed some surveillance footage?)

    The warrant was issued last Friday, August 5, but not executed until Monday morning. They knew Trump would not be there because he was in the New York City area to prepare for his civil deposition about how the values were assigned to Trump properties when applying for loans or insurance back before he ran for president. He eventually decided to take the 5th amendment, answering no questions but his name.

    He took it globally, because lawyers tell clients that if they make exceptions they could lose the right not to testify, because the premise of their refusal is not that they are guilty of some crime, but that this is a fishing expedition, and the lawyers have it, since the 1920s when this taking of the Fifth amendment started, that if you say it is a fishing expedition you’ve got to say that in answer to every question. It’s not been that much tested in court but I uderstand there are cases where people have lost their 5th amendment privilege by answering a question.

    The New York State Attorney General kept him there for hours, getting every refusal sepparately on the record ir maybe hoping he;d get exasperated at some accusation and deny it, and then she could argue he’d lost his general Fifth amendment right. Or maybe there’s some place she could attempt to draw an inference.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:59 am

  241. Trump team weighs releasing Mar-a-Lago search warrant, inventory, video and photos
    Former President Donald Trump’s legal team is weighing whether to release the search warrant and inventory of material seized at Mar-a-Lago before a federal judge rules on the matter, according to a Florida-based attorney for Trump, Lindsey Halligan.
    ………
    It isn’t clear what any video that may have been captured by Mar-a-Lago’s cameras would show. According to Halligan, there were security cameras in Trump’s office, but not in all of the areas that were searched. She also said that there are photos of FBI personnel on the grounds.

    The former president’s legal team has a copy of the search warrant and what it called a “vague” accounting of what was taken, according to the two sources. The search warrant was described to CBS News by the sources as a “bare bones” document that provides few details about why it was issued or what the FBI sought.

    Many items seized in the search were listed generically as “boxes” or “documents” — for instance, “Box 1 – documents.”
    ………..
    The government did not provide Trump’s lawyers with the underlying affidavit for the search warrant, which is standard practice.
    …………

    Assuming the warrant is released, and apparently the affidavit supporting the warrant will still be sealed, everyone is going to be very disappointed.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:03 am

  242. @238 Yes. That is a fact. And I repeated them. That’s also a fact. At least on that we agree.

    What does “to slither out of” mean to you? Because I don’t think that means what you think it means.

    And how does that get you off the hook for backing up your comments? It seems like the only one trying to slithering out of something here is you.

    And by slither I mean:

    1 : to slide on or as if on a loose gravelly surface
    2 : to slip or slide like a snake

    Both of them

    And the “loose gravelly surface” in this case is your Twitter based anonymous sources that you claim have been cited.

    And by snake I mean:

    2 : a worthless or treacherous fellow

    With the exception of worthless. I wouldn’t call you worthless. But by treacherous I mean

    b : providing insecure footing or support

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:05 am

  243. Or maybe there’s some place she could attempt to draw an inference.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/12/2022 @ 7:59 am

    Apparently the NY AG got what she wants:

    Tristan Snell, a former lawyer in the attorney general’s office, said investigators are probably pleased with Wednesday’s deposition, because Trump’s refusal to answer questions essentially amounts to an admission of guilt and would be seen as such if the case is tried in court.

    “This is one of the best outcomes they could have hoped for going into this,” said Snell, who worked on the state’s case against Trump University, which resulted in a $25 million settlement. He said Trump’s decision to plead the Fifth only increased the odds James’s office would succeed in an enforcement action against Trump and his company.

    ……..Trump repeatedly deferring to his constitutional protection at the interview “raises a strong inference” of liability in a civil case, where the burden of proof is much lower than in criminal court, Snell said.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:11 am

  244. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:03 am

    Still thinking he’s going to fight it? I don’t think he is and think there will be much disappointment. It’ll be interesting to see which of our predictions comes true. Hopefully we don’t have to wait long.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:12 am

  245. Kevin has been making reasonable speculations based on information we know or that has been leaked.

    Kevin has been all over the place.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:22 am

  246. Kevin has been all over the place.

    Mainly because there is not one actor in this that I trust.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:23 am

  247. Apropos of nothing, the single most surprising thing I’ve seen in my lifetime.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:30 am

  248. Word Kevin…. word.

    Also:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/whose-nuclear-what/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=right-rail&utm_content=corner&utm_term=first

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:34 am

  249. We’re being asked to believe RussiaGate 2 minus the hookers.

    There could still be hookers.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:39 am

  250. @246:

    Kevin has been all over the place.

    Mainly because there is not one actor in this that I trust.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:23 am

    It’s behind a paywall (lemme know if you want me to excerpt more), but here’s Andy McCarthy really distilling the issues and questions on ALL parties:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/thoughts-on-ag-garlands-remarks/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=related&utm_term=first

    …and even HE recognizes something that is so very obvious that even HE couldn’t ignore:

    …Garland’s preening defense of Justice Department lawyers and FBI agents is touching, but misleading. We have a two-tiered justice system, which is utterly biased against Trump supporters while coddling progressives. Garland’s claptrap about how evenhanded law enforcement is on his watch is laughable. But understand: By and large, Americans who are angry about politicized federal law enforcement are not angry at line prosecutors and FBI agents. They are angry at Justice Department and FBI leadership. They are angry at Garland and FBI director Christopher Wray, who make policy, not at the men and women who investigate the cases.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:44 am

  251. They know the documents are there, because the mole on his staff at the WH put it there while packing boxes. 🙂

    Richard Wetmore (ddc02c) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:45 am

  252. More from NR from McCarthy, who think is one of the few commentators in this current saga:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-problem-with-speaking/

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:49 am

  253. If they suddenly decided they wanted some electronic device back, they probably never asked for it

    I am pretty sure that, as in any corporation, on exiting the job there’s a checklist. Had over the company phone and computer, hand in your keys and badge, etc. The Football guy would have been with Trump until noon and would have been empowered to retrieve anything associated with his duties.

    I don’t buy an argument that Trump kept “the button” or any crypto device associated with the nuclear arsenal. If he had, it would have been a big issue real fast.

    What I am not clear on is, if the warrant listed nuclear secrets, did they recover any, and what exactly to do they mean by that? They are not necessarily TS if they don’t contain info about capabilities or numbers or dispositions.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:50 am

  254. whembly, thanks. I actually subscribed to NR a few weeks ago. $40/year intro

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:53 am

  255. McCarthy makes a good point: “nuclear secrets” do not necessarily mean “US nuclear secrets.” They could mean information about Iranian nuclear activity, for example. That could well be something that Trump would want to keep documentary evidence of, for fear of administration retconning it on its path towards a new Iran deal. And it is something that the administration would like to get back, if not deep-six.

    His other point, which has been my main point, is that the timing of this raid makes it likely that they were not adverse to discovering documents relating to J6 planning. I know that nk believes that the warrant has to be detailed, but all indications are it’s pretty vague, as is the list of items recovered.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:20 am

  256. Breaking: Author Salman Rushdie “With multiple stab wounds”

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:25 am

  257. Author Salman Rushdie was attacked at a speaking event in Chautauqua, N.Y., on Friday by a man who stormed the stage and stabbed the writer in the neck, police said.

    Rushdie was taken by helicopter to an area hospital, according to New York state police, who said Rushdie’s condition was unknown. The suspected attacker is in police custody.

    Around 11 a.m., a man ran onto the stage and attacked Rushdie and the interviewer, Henry Reese, who was left with a minor head injury. A New York state police trooper immediately took the man into custody.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2022/08/12/rushdie-stabbed-chautauqua/

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:29 am

  258. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:03 am

    Still thinking he’s going to fight it? I don’t think he is and think there will be much disappointment. It’ll be interesting to see which of our predictions comes true. Hopefully we don’t have to wait long.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:12 am

    I think the odds have increased to 50-50 that he will agree to release it. But any pronouncement by Trump usually comes before he speaks to his lawyers (especially when they occur on TS and in the middle of the night), so there is a 50-50 chance his next statement will start “On the advice of counsel…….”

    And there will much disappointment when the warrant says nothing about what it was about. As I have posted, apparently the affidavit, with all details, will remain sealed.

    We’ll know in 2.5 hours. Tick tock. 🕛

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:36 am

  259. > I am pretty sure that, as in any corporation, on exiting the job there’s a checklist.

    You’d be astonished at how many people I know who left jobs, or who were asked to leave jobs, and who nevertheless still have things you’d expect they’d be ordered to return.

    Corporate enforcement of this is spotty and depends a lot on the culture of the corporation in question.

    aphrael (954d17) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:38 am

  260. His other point, which has been my main point, is that the timing of this raid makes it likely that they were not adverse to discovering documents relating to J6 planning.

    Which of course they couldn’t seize unless they were identified in the warrant. The timing probably was based on on the calendar, a much less conspiratorial reason, and the fact Trump was in New York (though he doesn’t stay at MAL in the summer generally).

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:50 am

  261. There could still be hookers.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:39 am

    That thought occurred to me as I was typing it.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:51 am

  262. Ah, yes. The O.J. defense. (The cops planted the evidence.)
    norcal (da5491) — 8/11/2022 @ 3:37 pm

    I’m 100% sure that OJ was guilty, and 99% sure that the cops planted evidence, too. This is not an unprecendented combination.

    Scrutineer (583aed) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:54 am

  263. Which of course they couldn’t seize unless they were identified in the warrant.

    We’ll see, I read that the warrant, and the inventory, are pretty vague.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:57 am

  264. The same law that granted the warrant, grants Trump the right to go into that same court and say: “I am aggrieved. Give me back the things you took.”

    If he chooses, instead, to sniff and snivel and bluff and bluster, like whatever. Were there only four seasons of the 1967 run of Dragnet?

    nk (23bf78) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:00 am

  265. though he doesn’t stay at MAL in the summer generally

    No one who can live elsewhere stays in Florida in the summer.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:01 am

  266. aphrael (954d17) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:38 am

    Except we’re not speculating about the mouse and monitor that came with the laptop your company gave you. I’d think the corporate culture of the natsec community within the WH might be a little more thorough and diligent.

    frosty (3a552f) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:04 am

  267. Not sure I would combine “diligent” with “Trump White House.”

    Of course it might be that you are either Trump, or you are little people, but this is Trump.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:26 am

  268. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:26 am

    This seems to be the easy answer to all questions Trump.

    But we also aren’t talking about just the “Trump White House”. We’re talking about all of the SS, military personal, and career executive branch people. We’re also talking about the entire procedure for handling classified information. Trump doesn’t corrupt those people and processes by osmosis.

    If Trump replaced everyone in the WH with toadies how does that explain Vindman? Or any of the almost constant “sources within the WH” leaks we got. Sure, some of those last were probably disgruntled Trumpers but all of them?

    frosty (125b4b) — 8/12/2022 @ 10:46 am

  269. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:36 am

    I think the odds have increased to 50-50 that he will agree to release it.

    He already “tweeted” last night:

    Not only will I not oppose the release of documents related to the unAmerican, unwarranted, and unnecessary raid and break-in of my home in Palm Beach, Florida, Mar-a-Lago, I am going a step further by ENCOURAGING the immediate release of those documents.

    and

    Even though they have been drawn up by radical left Democrats and possible future political opponents, who have a strong and powerful vested interest in attacking me, much as they have done for the last 6 years.

    He’s trying to pretend he doesn’t already have them, or maybe is getting ready to accuse Garland of going back on his word and not fulfilling his pledge to seek the release of all the material.

    He may want more attention drawn to them, because they may make the Department of Justice and the FBI look petty, paranoic, foolish and stupid, and there’s the matter of the media accepting the authenticity of the search warrant text – but mainly he’s probably attempting to mislead people as to how things work.

    The warrant maybe will not say too much, but the list of objects taken will tell you things.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:15 am

  270. 90 days makes sense. It was a deadline and people do foolish things under time pressure.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/12/2022 @ 11:50 am

  271. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/12/2022 @ 8:50 am

    I don’t buy an argument that Trump kept “the button” or any crypto device associated with the nuclear arsenal. If he had, it would have been a big issue real fast.

    Most likely just this: (the biscuit he had on the morning of January 20, 2021, which is usually discarded every day)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Codes

    ….In conjunction with the nuclear football, the Gold Codes allow the president to authorize a nuclear attack. Gold Codes, as well as a separate nuclear football, are also assigned to the vice president in case the president is incapacitated or otherwise unable to discharge the duties of office pursuant to the Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Gold Codes are arranged in a column and printed on a plastic card nicknamed “the biscuit.”

    The card’s size is similar to that of a credit card, and the president is supposed to carry it on his person. Before it can be read, an opaque plastic covering must be snapped in two and removed.

    Gold Codes are generated daily and provided by the National Security Agency (NSA) to the White House, The Pentagon, United States Strategic Command and TACAMO. For an extra level of security, the list of codes on the card includes codes that have no meaning, and therefore the president must memorize where on the list the correct code is located. The concept behind the codes is that they permit the president to positively identify themself as the commander-in-chief and thereby authenticate a launch order to the National Military Command Center (NMCC)

    What I am not clear on is, if the warrant listed nuclear secrets, did they recover any, and what exactly to do they mean by that? They are not necessarily TS if they don’t contain info about capabilities or numbers or dispositions.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:00 pm

  272. What I am not clear on is, if the warrant listed nuclear secrets, did they recover any, and what exactly to do they mean by that?

    If it’s one of the biscuits, it amounts to nothing.

    It still might be classified top secret, because top secretsdon”t come with an automatic expiration date.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:03 pm

  273. Maybe just what the biscuit looks like either from the outside or the inside, or the card inside might be classified top secret because maybe a foreign country could create a counterfeit and switch itwith the real one.

    Although what good that would do them in the long run is not apparent/

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6) — 8/12/2022 @ 12:19 pm

  274. 262. Scrutineer (583aed) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:54 am

    I’m 100% sure that OJ was guilty, and 99% sure that the cops planted evidence, too.

    No they didn;t. OJ dropped a glove, twice. OJ never claimed it wasn;t his glove.

    But MArk Fuyhman took the 5th amendemnt on everthing.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/12/2022 @ 2:43 pm

  275. Information so important and sensitive……..that securing it a couple days later was just fine! This whole thing was stupid.

    Richard Wetmore (ddc02c) — 8/12/2022 @ 3:12 pm

  276. “Under “Attachment B” of the FBI raid document, Garland demanded the seizure of literally any record Trump ever saw, read, or created over the entire 4-year term of his presidency: “Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021.”

    Fishing with a BIG net.

    Obudman (c2ded1) — 8/12/2022 @ 4:12 pm

  277. @208, 213. There’s so much mischaracterization, distortion, and outright fabrication in those two comments that I’ve come around to Time’s conclusion from yesterday or the day before: it’s not productive to engage with you. Sorry I bothered you.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/12/2022 @ 6:30 pm

  278. Liz Cheney Blasts Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley As ‘Unfit For Future’ Office

    ‘Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) tore into fellow Republicans who have and continue to spread and support falsehoods about the 2020 election, saying they have failed their constitutional obligations and should be barred from future leadership positions.

    “I’m going to work against those people. I’m going to work to support their opponents,” Cheney, who lost her Wyoming seat in Congress last week to a Donald Trump-endorsed challenger, told ABC News’ Jonathan Karl in an interview that aired Sunday.’ – HuffPo/ABCNews.com

    Daughter Darth goes Black Knight Python:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs&t=5s

    DCSCA (86c203) — 8/22/2022 @ 2:03 pm


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