Patterico's Pontifications

8/10/2022

Advisors To Trump: Don’t Let This Crisis Go To Waste, Announce Your Presidential Campaign For 2024!

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:28 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Well, this didn’t take long:

Top Republicans who have spent months trying to dissuade Donald Trump from announcing another presidential campaign before the midterms are coming around to the idea, after an unprecedented search of the former President’s Mar-a-Lago property by federal investigators on Monday lit up the GOP base.

Trump has received a fresh wave of encouragement to jump start his next presidential campaign in the 24 hours since his primary residence became the target of an FBI search warrant, several sources familiar with the matter told CNN. The former President, who is widely expected to run again, had previously eyed Labor Day as his target launch date, but is now being advised to accelerate his timeline to capitalize on what Republicans have described as extraordinary overreach and political persecution by Justice Department officials, including by advisers who previously counseled him to take his time with a 2024 announcement.

“My advice that we should wait until after the midterms was based upon a rather standard landscape. [The Justice Department] set off a nuclear bomb on that landscape yesterday. This is no longer a business-as-usual campaign. Not even close,” said Michael Caputo, a longtime Trump confidant, who previously urged the former President to wait for the 2022 election outcome before diving into a presidential primary.

It’s bizarre exactly what you would expect from Trump and his advisors: Parlay a lawful FBI search of his residence for potential mishandling of classified documents into a “witch hunt,” rally the troops, watch them circle the wagons and then announce a run for 2024. It’s really amazing that a former president who was twice impeached and is currently the subject of any number of investigations appears to be the Republicans’ go-to guy. But since he is in full victim mode and his supporters are amped and ready as they issue warnings about upcoming wars, Gestapo tactics, defunding federal agencies, Banana republics, and cleaning out D.C., it makes perfect sense for him to announce sooner rather than later. Strike while the iron is hot! After all, there’s no telling if when the next crisis will happen.

Interestingly, this puts Trump’s biggest threat (if Gov. Ron DeSantis decides to run) in a tricky position. Yesterday’s events forced his hand because, while he has not said much about Trump lately and knows that he may end up running against the former president, he also knows that Trump continues to control the Republican Party. Thus, he was compelled to come to Trump’s defense after the search at Mar-a-Lago:

However, it appears that both men may benefit from the FBI search yesterday:

A Florida GOP operative also highlighted that the FBI’s action could politically benefit both DeSantis and Trump, though for differing reasons.

“This is a unique opportunity for DeSantis because he can highlight the ongoing battle with the radical left and at the same time further distance himself from Trump,” said a veteran Florida Republican operative…“DeSantis continues to be the perfect combination of political skill and good fortune.”

The operative, however, sees the FBI search as something that could give Trump heightened momentum with a Republican base that in recent months has started to line up behind DeSantis.

“What makes things interesting is that Trump has almost no choice but to get in and spend the next several months doing everything he possibly can to secure the base,” the person added. “The only thing that helps push back against potential criminal liability is a high level political candidacy.”

I’m already exhausted at the prospect of it all.

–Dana

191 Responses to “Advisors To Trump: Don’t Let This Crisis Go To Waste, Announce Your Presidential Campaign For 2024!”

  1. Never let it be said that Republicans don’t know how to use a crisis to their advantage. Democrats are ametuers.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. All Trump did was plead the 5th over and over in his deposition today. This from a guy who mocked other people for pleading the 5th.

    norcal (da5491)

  3. Good job everyone.

    Well done.

    Reap what you sow.

    whembly (b770f8)

  4. Sauron will make a new Precious for Sméagol? Gollum!

    nk (8e700d)

  5. Allahpundit’s take:
    ……..
    There is one way that Trump declaring early could backfire on him and Republicans, though. There’s now a non-negligible chance that the sort of lunatic that broke into the Capitol on January 6 to try to effectuate a coup will do something similarly nutty to “avenge” the FBI raid. Violent threats are rampant online this week among the most hardcore Trump cultists and lord knows the man himself relishes seeing his followers spoiling to commit violence in his name. ………
    #########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  6. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
    Dana (1225fc) — 8/8/2022 @ 5:18 pm

    Parlay a lawful FBI search of his residence for potential mishandling of classified documents into a “witch hunt”…

    That first statement tells me that your claim that this was a lawful search may be the result of a bias. And, even if “lawful” it was certainly unprecedented, and a shocking use of state power against a former president for something that did not have to be handled this way, and to the best of my knowledge has never been handled this way against a formerly senior official. Even when said official had ill intent. Some lower-level officers have been raided when they were suspected of transferring the material to a third party or preparing to do so. If that was true in this case it has yet to be alleged.

    I don’t know how this plays out, but the first line of Merrick Garland’s obit has just been written.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  7. I believe that the time to test government power is when it is used against the person most deserving of excesses. That is when the town clowns are most tempted. When someone says “Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy” they have failed the test of caring what the rules are, and fallen into cheerleading for the thugs.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  8. @5: It could also lead another kind of lunatic into putting an end to the Trump Menace, once and for all. There are all kinds of lunatics.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  9. baby steps.

    Colonel Haiku (d712a2)

  10. All Trump did was plead the 5th over and over in his deposition today

    He was being disposed by an AG who ran on a platform of “getting Trump.” Only an idiot would testify.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  11. Lighten up, Kevin M. Your 6 & 7 are overreactions.

    Dana (1225fc)

  12. Who are these advisers?

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  13. And, even if “lawful” it was certainly unprecedented……

    Maybe it’s about time ex-Presidents get treated like everyone else.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  14. Supposedly there is security camera footage of the search. But given the source is Eric Trump…….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. @13. Maybe it’s about time ex-Presidents get treated like everyone else.

    Good. Try it. No more calls for ‘Reagan on Mt. Rushmore’ crap, then or Obama worshipping. Such is the cult of celebrity worship in this country today. Probably the only two POTUS’s who appreciated non-recognition in recent times are Jimmy Carter– and believe it or not, Richard Nixon, who occasionally frequented a MickeyDee’s along Route 72 in Manahawkin, NJ on the way to vacation on Long Beach Island- where we once lived, back in the day. He’d talk with a patron– but still stood in line for his Big Mac.

    In 1998, I was standing in line to pick up my credentials for the HBO premiere of ‘From The Earth To The Moon’ in Hollywood– and right behind me was this casually dressed dude literally nobody recognized aside from me at that moment, waiting for his credentials like the rest of us ordinary earthlings. It was Dave Scott- a technical advisor to the series and one of the 12 men in the whole history of everything who walked on the moon. I nodded polite recognition, he smiled back and I let him go ahead of me to get his papers– and simply marveled at how not only was he unrecognized by the kiss-ass dweebs looking for Hanks and the other series ‘stars’ – but how pleased he was at just blending in with everybody else.

    Later on, as the press hovered around the table full of cast members listening to their bullsh-tting about their work on the series, I stood away and looked over at a darken area on the other side of the room. There were Scott and Buzz Aldrin, essentially ignored, quietly talking. Two of the 12 who’d actually been there. You’d have thought everybody would have wanted to talk with and listen to them and their experiences; guys who’d actually been there and done it. Nope.

    America’s obsession with a culture of celebrity worship- be it a popular POTUS or a reality TV star– is a symptom of the very sick society we’ve created– and we keep feeding it. It’s why you get Trumps. Or Reagans… or Jerry Falwells… or Tucker Carlsons and so on…and relish the antics of a JR Ewing, or Alexis Colby.

    DCSCA (5b5677)

  16. What’s unprecedented is that nobody in the history of the United States has willfully, wantonly, and with malice aforethought done more to destroy the American people’s faith and trust in their government and their institutions than Donald Trump.

    Nobody. Not the Copperheads, not the Wobblies, not the Fifth Column, not the KGB, not any other organization or individual. He is not merely the worst President we ever had. He is the worst American we ever had.

    nk (7c9db8)

  17. What’s unprecedented is that nobody in the history of the United States has willfully, wantonly, and with malice aforethought done more to destroy the American people’s faith and trust in their government and their institutions than Donald Trump.

    Pfft.

    … and Bobby Lee smiled.

    DCSCA (5b5677)

  18. Twice impeached by partisan leftists. Leftists and NeverTrump tried removing him from office from the day he got elected.

    Thou dost protest too much.

    Biden and the left are destroying our nation and NeverTrump applauds.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  19. So many on here are the “lawman” who said he would destroy every law, tear down every obstacle to get the Devil. We know how that ends.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  20. So many on here are the “lawman” who said he would destroy every law, tear down every obstacle to get the Devil. We know how that ends.

    I am confident that you do not, NJRob. Know how that ends.

    Sir William Roper, the son-in-law of Thomas More, who wanted to murder Richard Rich, the Solicitor General for England and Wales, to keep him from betraying Thomas More, which is the mythical exchange in the fictional hagiography that you reference, lived to the ripe old age of 82, in the meantime having served as Member of Parliament and High Sheriff of Kent.

    Now that you have that, who is it that’s broken the law and wants to tear it down because it’s an obstacle to his whims? Hint: It’s not Merrick Garland, Christopher Wray, or Bruce Reinhardt.

    nk (e80ff0)

  21. Lighten up, Kevin M. Your 6 & 7 are overreactions.

    Perhaps. And that may be because I dislike Trump as much as anyone does, but I feel the need to push back against government power most when it is used against someone I despise. The time to defend speech is not when it’s Mother Teresa, but when it’s Larry Flynt. So, I might be overcompensating.

    But I cannot agree that one should cheer when Trump is subjected to something that would be beyond the pale if done to Obama or W, even if they had done the same thing (and they might have).

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  22. Eric Trump Says Security Cameras Captured FBI Acting Improperly During Raid

    Eric Trump said that the security cameras at Mar-a-Lago caught FBI agents behaving improperly during Monday’s raid, alleging that investigators were accessing parts of former President Donald Trump’s Florida residence that they “shouldn’t have been.” In an interview with DailyMail.com, Eric Trump said that because staff refused to turn off the surveillance cameras at the request of the FBI, the Mar-a-Lago cameras captured agents raiding areas that they weren’t authorized to.

    “There’s 30 agents there,” he recalled on Wednesday. “They told our lawyer…’You have to leave the property right now. Turn off all security cameras.’ “The former president was not on the property as he was in New York City at the time of the search. Eric Trump said he was the one who “got the call” about the raid.

    Eric Trump said that the FBI refused to give Trump’s lawyer, Christina Bobb, a copy of the search warrant but “showed it to her from about 10 feet away,” DailyMail.com reported. He also said he would be “thrilled” to find out if there was a valid reason for the search. However, Bobb told The New York Times a day earlier that she received a copy of the warrant. Bobb said the supporting documentation to the warrant was sealed and that Trump’s team was still deciding whether or not they would go to court to ask for its release.

    “It was very, I would say, thin, and as you can tell, it went from public records,” Bobb told Real America’s Voice on Tuesday. “The affidavit, the supporting documentation of what the probable cause was to obtain the warrant, has been sealed, so we’re not allowed to see that. We have to go to court to request the judge to release that, which may or may not happen.” NBC News also reported that Trump’s team has no plans to release their copy of the warrant despite calls for the former president to do so.

    On Wednesday, Trump suggested that FBI agents may have planted evidence while conducting the raid, an accusation that some experts believe confirms Trump’s guilt. “The FBI and others from the Federal Government would not let anyone, including my lawyers, be anywhere near the areas that were rummaged and otherwise looked at during the raid on Mar-a-Lago,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “Why did they STRONGLY insist on having nobody watching them, everybody out?” he added. -source, newsweek.com

    DCSCA (5b5677)

  23. Maybe it’s about time ex-Presidents get treated like everyone else.

    No, it’s not. It’s an office that demands much of the occupant and requires difficult choices, often among bad options. If their successors, often of the opposition party, can bring the full power of the state down on them for minor issues (and this is, apparently, a minor issue), that peaceful transfer of power thing will be on thin ice.

    This is an issue that could have been better solved with a civil suit (“you have our stuff”), and the marshals could have just gone over and got it. There was no need to criminalize this.

    I am greatly concerned that they intend to prosecute on this basis, which would be the worst of all possible worlds.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  24. What’s unprecedented is that nobody in the history of the United States has willfully, wantonly, and with malice aforethought done more to destroy the American people’s faith and trust in their government and their institutions than Donald Trump.

    LBJ, we’ve forgotten you so quickly.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  25. Question: If they put Trump in prison, does he still get Secret Service protection?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  26. What’s unprecedented is that nobody in the history of the United States has willfully, wantonly, and with malice aforethought done more to destroy the American people’s faith and trust in their government and their institutions than Donald Trump.

    Pfft.

    ‘Let me make this perfectly clear’:

    ‘What America needs are leaders to match the greatness of her people.” – The Big Dick, August 8, 1968

    “I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow.’- The Big Dick, August 8, 1974

    DCSCA (5b5677)

  27. @25. Question: If they put Trump in prison, does he still get Secret Service protection?

    Answer: Of course. ‘The White House has often been referred to as a ‘prison.’ President Harry Truman called it a “glamorous prison” and “the great white jail.”

    “I don’t know whether it’s the finest public housing in America or the crown jewel of the prison system,” President Bill Clinton said.’

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/michelle-obama-prison_n_3535580

    Give that man a cigar!

    DCSCA (5b5677)

  28. What’s unprecedented is that nobody in the history of the United States has willfully, wantonly, and with malice aforethought done more to destroy the American people’s faith and trust in their government and their institutions than Donald Trump.

    Which makes it ironic, to say the least, when Trumpites lament that there’s so little trust in our institutions and our elections.

    Another thing: imagine being so morally bereft as to believe that if there’s any dispute between Donald Trump and anyone else, the other person or institution must be not only wrong but corrupt — even if it’s a person or institution that one viewed favorably until there was a conflict with Trump. That way of thinking is pervasive in the GOP today.

    But suppose that Trump had never run for president: would the elite Trump defenders be so outraged that someone would accuse him of criminal conduct? Some of those people used to speak or write about his history of being a cheat and a fraudster, before finding him politically useful and saying we needed to overlook his “personality” flaws for the sake of policy — and then becoming hostile to anyone who notes that he still has serious character defects which they are now denying.

    Radegunda (619c30)

  29. Never let it be said that Republicans don’t know how to use a crisis to their advantage.
    Dana (1225fc) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:30 pm

    any more Liz primetime specials?

    JF (4c6fec)

  30. No, it’s not. It’s an office that demands much of the occupant and requires difficult choices, often among bad options.

    It also gives the occupant a great deal of power over all Americans. Conservatives used to believe that presidents therefore should have a higher-than-average level of integrity. That went out the window when the Trump cult took over.

    (and this is, apparently, a minor issue),

    We don’t know if it’s a minor issue, but I don’t believe for a second that MAGA world would say it was a minor issue if a Democratic former president was so cavalier in the handling of sensitive government documents, and then apparently put up resistance to handing over all of what the government was requesting. I also don’t think the unprecedented measure of a search warrant on a former president would have been used for a “minor issue.” Garland et al. were certainly aware of the political ramifications, the predictable rage of MAGA world, and the possibility that Trump could leverage it to play the victim and amplify a “civil war” mentality against the “deep state.”

    that peaceful transfer of power thing will be on thin ice.

    Oh the irony! It’s never been on thinner ice than when Donald J. Trump launched a multipronged effort to retain power unlawfully. That is hardly a “minor issue.” Should he not be held accountable for a grave offense against the Republic, because the peaceful transfer of power is better upheld by saying “No problem. (Better luck next time.)”?

    Should presidential malfeasance be indulged because the prospect of accountability incentives the perp to abuse power even more by refusing to leave office?

    A number of civilized nations (France, Italy, Iceland, Israel, South Korea, Japan …) have prosecuted former leaders, and it doesn’t appear to have ended “that peaceful transfer of power thing.”

    Radegunda (619c30)

  31. @16 Did he really though? Maybe he destroyed NeverTrump’s faith in the process by getting elected in the first place. And then he undermined his supporters faith in voting in 2020.

    But faith and trust in the FBI/DOJ? They did that themselves and had started on that before Trump.

    In the judicial branch? The left has been working on that for years. That’s not on Trump. His approach to picking judges should count in his favor. If anything his picks might give the judicial branch some chance to fight off the rot.

    The left and democrats attacked local police and local police haven’t helped themselves here. If we’re going to put that on a POTUS BO should be first in line.

    We’re drifting from government and it’s institutions but these days there’s not much of a separation so:

    In universities and the educational system. That’d be the left too.

    Faith in the press? That’s all on them. His fake news schtick works because the press has been more than happy to lie for partisan reasons and aren’t even subtle about it anymore.

    There is a deep rot at the core of most institutions. Trump didn’t create it. In some cases he just made it impossible to ignore.

    frosty (f2d295)

  32. @30 Everything we’ve been told so far indicates that this is a national archives issue. There is zero evidence that this is something like the DOD/IC trying to secure high level intelligence information. At least that’s what we’re getting from anonymous sources and people on background and people close to the investigation who’ve been authorized to speak, etc. In NeverTrump world that’s usually the gold standard.

    People are holding out hope because this just has to be a big deal. After all the DOJ wouldn’t have done something like this to recover a note Trump made a mark in the margin on.

    My guess is that by the end of the week we’ll be hearing about how this wasn’t a big deal, just a routine thing, and it’s only a big deal because Trump made it a big deal. And everyone now claiming that this has to be a big deal and can’t be a minor issue will be nodding along and clucking about the Trumpers who were sucked into the frenzy.

    BTW; one of the reasons people thought the HRC email thing was a serious was because she was conducting state dept communications with other high level government officials via emails going through an unsecured server and in some cases it looked like TS information had been manually copied from a secure system into the unsecured one because it was inconvenient for her to use a secure system. So, yea, it’s no secret why some people really want this secret documents thing to be true.

    frosty (f2d295)

  33. More lol.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  34. What’s unprecedented is that nobody in the history of the United States has willfully, wantonly, and with malice aforethought done more to destroy the American people’s faith and trust in their government and their institutions than Donald Trump.

    No, Trump is just a catalyst in a concoction that’s been getting stirred for about 20-odd years now, and most of that damage was done by the nation’s politicians and institutions themselves. I suspect the biggest reason these people hate Trump isn’t because he’s so destructive, but because he’s not nearly as slick in his venality as they are.

    This is a guy who, up until 2010 or so, was considered “one of them”; both him and his properties appearing in Hollywood productions, feting with the nation’s biggest power players, turning himself into such an established brand that rap stars name-dropped him in songs as an aspirational figure. They see a guy like Trump and get angry because they’re staring right in the face of their own lust, greed, pride, and hypocrisy, and it infuriates them for the sole reason that he’s not on their side. These are people who pretend to virtue, but lie with every breath they can muster, manipulate the economy so that they never get touched for their outright fraud while ordinary Americans lose jobs and go bankrupt by the millions, portray the nation as a racist hellhole while living fat off the fruit of the manifest destiny that they decry, and indulge in every kind of social fashion that feeds their narcissistic self-indulgence.

    Yeah, if I was as institutionally, socially, and morally corrupt as these people, I’d probably see Trump as a traitor to my class, too.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  35. I find it sad that, once again, an issue that will matter long after Trump is dead is argued on the basis of supporting or opposing Trump the man.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  36. Radegunda being the poster child for #35.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  37. Oh the irony! It’s never been on thinner ice than when Donald J. Trump launched a multipronged effort to retain power unlawfully. That is hardly a “minor issue.”

    And I have stated that he should be tried and tossed in a Supermax for that. But two wrongs don’t make a right.

    Going after Trump for a “crime” that is almost never prosecuted on its own seems political. They can’t get him on the insurrection thing, so they will get him on this? Shades of Mueller’s process-crime scalps.

    If each administration can go after their predecessors on technical crimes, it will dial the partisanship up even further, should that be possible. There are so many “felonies” that no president leaves office without committing one.

    We need to come together, not drive things further apart.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  38. @16 justice tanney did more then trump.

    asset (e5d170)

  39. Considering what is going on elsewhere with subpoenas to Congressmen, the raid on Trump will turn out to have been a pretext for a fishing expedition into documents regarding the attempted Electoral College manipulations. I doubt they have enough evidence to get a warrant regarding that directly, but a general “WH document” hunt suffices. And there probably are some, given Trump’s claim of evidence planting. I don’t know what the rules are with something like this, but I assume that it will force them to add a documents charge to the bill against Trump so that the evidence from the raid is admissible.

    I expect the charges will be issued (or at least leaked) in late October. I don’t know if this will help or hurt the GOP’s midterm chances. The political nature of this is transparent; whether people agree or disagree is also political.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  40. @16 justice tanney did more then trump.

    There are those that say the Taney court was going to rule FOR Dredd Scott, but President Buchanan intervened in their deliberations, convincing some that ruling against Scott would settle the slavery thing for all time. Pretty much the argument in Roe, too.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  41. Your soon to be audited tax dollars at play:

    Hunter Biden joins Joe for vacation as GOP slams FBI for ‘double standard’ after Trump raid

    Disgraced first son Hunter Biden joined his father on Air Force One Wednesday for a flight to a family vacation on Kiawah Island, South Carolina — as Republicans slam the FBI for a “double standard” in raiding former President Trump’s residence, but neither of the Bidens’ homes.

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/10/hunter-biden-joins-joe-for-vacation-as-gop-slams-fbi-for-double-standard-after-trump-raid/

    DCSCA (2a3f34)

  42. Ilhan Omar defeats corporate stooge in minnesota democrat primary! Despite spending hundreds of thousands of corporate and Israel lobby money on tv advertising Ilhan Omar still won the primary. As AOC says they have the money we have the votes!

    asset (e5d170)

  43. They only have the votes because the loons of minnegooshoo keep importing these horrible people. Been happening since the 60’s.

    mg (8cbc69)

  44. Jonah captures my read on this situation perfectly. It’s worth a read

    https://gfile.thedispatch.com/p/yearning-for-a-banana-republic

    The GOP does seem enthralled by a strongman…break all the rules…leader who will crush their “enemies”. It’s not a serious party right now and that’s a shame.

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  45. @44 If the details on this raid by the FBI keep going they way they’ve been going NeverTrump doesn’t get to lecture people on who’s serious anymore.

    frosty (f2d295)

  46. Like Deputy Assistant Commissar for State Security Geste Kilomolov wrote, the biggest difficulty with combating propaganda is distinguishing the victims from the co-conspirators.

    nk (b4449f)

  47. BTW; for those following along at home:

    Garland was so aware of the political ramifications of this that people on background who’ve been authorized to speak to the press are telling us he didn’t know about the search warrant. But this is super serious and very clearly about ultra top secret and sensitive information. Side note: in a couple of years someone like nk will be reminding us about the the USA, or possibly the AUSA’s best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend, down in FL who put together this plan and about how they’re super media savvy.

    And even though Trump and his attorney are totes lying about not getting a copy of the warrant that we’re also told is sealed the FBI hasn’t made any comment to correct that. Of course, they’ve got a policy on commenting on investigations so even though leaving that lie out there is causing a lot of problems they’re being super careful because they’re aware of the political ramifications.

    And there’s probably a difference between a sealed warrant and an unsealed warrant and between the literal search warrant paperwork and the affidavit used to obtain the warrant but the important thing here is that Trump, not the DOJ, could easily clear all of this up and Trump, and absolutely not the DOJ, has the obligation to do so.

    frosty (f2d295)

  48. AJ, good link. It’s been clear for some time that the GOP has moved from the party of small government, fiscal disciple, constitutional law, and national defense towards a big government ethno-populist party.

    FWO regularly does a good job of articulating the new focus and justification for the change. I disagree with it. But it’s not an illegitimate POV.

    The cult of personality around Trump is a part of that. The thinking I see articulated is the system treats people like us unfairly. At best the rules are applied unevenly, but there are plenty of things that look like outright abuse by our political enemies who clearly hate us and our way of life. They’re not just content to rule, they have to destroy us and deny us any sort of respect and credit for the many accomplishments we’ve made. Trump is a great example of the types of insults and abuses that are regularly directed at us. Combine that with a taste for conspiracy theories, selection bias, and impatience for detailed explanations and here we are.

    Critique of the assertions is usually taken as a personal attack.

    Wish I thought there was an easy solution.

    Time123 (f66c4c)

  49. in a couple of years someone like nk will be reminding us about the the USA, or possibly the AUSA’s best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend, down in FL who put together this plan and about how they’re super media savvy.

    Not me. I’ll tell you right now. This was a genius move by the Democrats, like Putin taking the Crimea for two cents’ worth of sanctions.

    For a week or so, everybody will be in a tizzy but the bottom line will remain that Trump took classified material with him when he was evicted from the White House.

    The Republican Party will step up the process of shredding itself, with “victories” over each other, while Trump laps up the blood.

    The Democrats will face a weakened and divided GOP in November 2022 and, if they’re smart enough to just let Trump be Trump like Biden did in 2020, an even more divided and weakened one in 2024.

    And if Trump should be nominated in 2024, global warming will up 3 degrees from Democrats burning candles in thanks to the Madonna.

    nk (0615d6)

  50. Tim Carney said it well also; “The GOP gave up on limited government because the Dems never cared about it and it was getting in the way of other policy goals.” Quoting from memory from a podcast.

    Time123 (f66c4c)

  51. …and if trained simians flew out his backside, he’d have a potentially lucrative circus act.

    …all these denials… it was a raid!… it was not a raid!

    The Feebs go in looking for panties, it’s a f**king raid.

    Colonel Haiku (4b3c36)

  52. Nk, I hope you’re wrong. If not if means another election with no good choices for president

    Time123 (f66c4c)

  53. “Donald Trump doesn’t have the more moral stature to kiss John Lewis’s feet.”

    —- Judge Bruce Reinhart on January 14, 2017

    Colonel Haiku (4b3c36)

  54. RIP Lamont Dozier

    Colonel Haiku (4b3c36)

  55. … and, by the way, into titties, like right here, in Detroit.” — Donald Trump, on August 8, 2016.

    nk (d17a19)

  56. @49 I like how I said DOJ and you went to Ds. That’s a level of honesty I can respect.

    frosty (f2d295)

  57. @23

    Maybe it’s about time ex-Presidents get treated like everyone else.

    No, it’s not. It’s an office that demands much of the occupant and requires difficult choices, often among bad options. If their successors, often of the opposition party, can bring the full power of the state down on them for minor issues (and this is, apparently, a minor issue), that peaceful transfer of power thing will be on thin ice.

    This is an issue that could have been better solved with a civil suit (“you have our stuff”), and the marshals could have just gone over and got it. There was no need to criminalize this.

    I am greatly concerned that they intend to prosecute on this basis, which would be the worst of all possible worlds.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 6:14 pm

    Here’s what’s going to happen:

    Before a POTUS becomes a former-POTUS, there will be an EO describing Pardons to the POTUS and his orbit.

    Tell me I’m wrong.

    whembly (607028)

  58. Whembly, Maybe, not clear the POTUS can pardon themselves. Also, this appears to be based on actions taken after Trump left office. If the reporting is correct (big if) it’s about his possession of classified material he didn’t have legal authority to possess.

    Time123 (ae7b06)

  59. There’s a couple of new bits in this WSJ report.

    On June 22, the Trump Organization, the name for Mr. Trump’s family business, received a subpoena for surveillance footage from cameras at Mar-a-Lago. That footage was turned over, according to an official.

    Hmmm. I wonder what federal law enforcement is looking for.

    At the end of the day, they hauled away roughly 10 more boxes of material, some of the people said. The seized documents remain with the FBI’s Miami field office, a person familiar with them said.
    […]
    In the days since then, Mr. Trump’s associates have been reaching out to defense attorneys to see if they would represent Mr. Trump in the matter, a sign of concern over the former president’s potential legal trouble.

    For all of Trump’s squawking (and massively amplified by his loyal subjects), dude is lawyering up.

    For DOJ’s sake, there had better be classified information in those ten boxes. If not, then the search was still lawful but you have to question the wisdom of sending a team of FBI agents to ferret it out.

    Funny thing, while it is indeed unprecedented that the FBI would search the premises of an ex-president’s domicile, it’s similarly unprecedented that an outgoing president would so blatantly flout the Presidential Records Act by illegally taking dozens of boxes of documents out of the White House.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  60. ETA, If that’s correct a pardon issues while he was still in office wouldn’t have any impact.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  61. Paul, you raise a good point that unprecedented reactions to Trump’s acts are in part explained by Trumps’s unprecedented acts.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  62. @59

    Whembly, Maybe, not clear the POTUS can pardon themselves. Also, this appears to be based on actions taken after Trump left office. If the reporting is correct (big if) it’s about his possession of classified material he didn’t have legal authority to possess.

    Time123 (ae7b06) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:10 am

    I think it’s pretty clear as POTUS has plenary power. (Doesn’t me impeachment can’t be used though).

    I’m extremely dubious it’s “classified material he didn’t have legal authority to possess”. If it was document taken whilst he was still President, he should be fine.

    If, however, it were documents acquired AFTER Biden was sworn in, he could be in jeopardy. But, I’m not sure I buy that theory as pragmatically would be (or should be) difficult to do.

    whembly (607028)

  63. The Republican Party will step up the process of shredding itself, with “victories” over each other, while Trump laps up the blood.

    The GOPe could have headed that off a long time ago by actually listening to voters and keeping their campaign promises. Even just a little bit would have helped. Instead the GOPe has been giving the base the middle finger for the better part of 2 decades.

    We got the compassionate conservatives Bush/Cheney who got us into two extended wars and thought enhanced interrogation and targeted drone strikes were a good choice.

    We got McCain as a choice for POTUS who’s primary strength was working with the Ds to give them whatever they wanted.

    We got Romney as a choice for POTUS who was just the corporate slicker version of McCain.

    In 2016 the GOPe gathered wagons around Jeb Bush.

    Remember the promise to repeal and replace Obamacare? Me either.

    I’m pretty sure the GOP will do something to screw up the midterms and even if they do regain control of congress they won’t do anything with it.

    frosty (f2d295)

  64. @60

    Funny thing, while it is indeed unprecedented that the FBI would search the premises of an ex-president’s domicile, it’s similarly unprecedented that an outgoing president would so blatantly flout the Presidential Records Act by illegally taking dozens of boxes of documents out of the White House.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:10 am

    Obama took approximately 30 million documents of unknown classification.

    I still don’t even know what had happened to that and still don’t know if the Archivists had those documents in compliance to PRA.

    So, no, not really unprecedented.

    whembly (849622)

  65. Whembly, My understanding is that if you’re in legal possession of material that becomes classified you’re not allowed to keep it, and that having it in your possession is a crime.

    Could be an interesting court case if Trump took the documents when he was president (which he had a legal right to do) but after Biden came into office they were re-classified and he no longer had a legal right to possess them.

    I think the issue would depend heavily on facts a jury would be asked to determine.

    I’d hope that any jury in such a situation would consider if the accused were given a ‘fair’ chance to know they had classified material and return the material.

    Lots of supposition there and I’d welcome anyone with a better grasp of the specifics.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  66. Whembly, I’ve heard that asserted by Trumps kids on twitter. But i haven’t seen any actual detail about what was taken and what the process was / is for making sure those documents comply with the PRA.

    I thought after they left office presidents typically establish a presidential library that contains information about their time in office and that doing so involves collaboration with their staff and government officials.

    Would be interesting to see what the normal process is and if what Trump did is comparable to that.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  67. @62 This is just the prettier version of the argument that it’s ok to do whatever is necessary to get Trump. This is why appealing to principles doesn’t work as well as it used to.

    It’s also looking increasingly like this lawful search was a fishing expedition. The near constant repetition of the lawful search talking point is starting to give the game away.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  68. Go away Frosty.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  69. @66

    Whembly, My understanding is that if you’re in legal possession of material that becomes classified you’re not allowed to keep it, and that having it in your possession is a crime.

    That’s not how it works.

    Once it’s declassified, the following administration can’t retroactively reclassify it.

    Think about how problematic it would be and how “ripe” for abuse that would offer.

    Could be an interesting court case if Trump took the documents when he was president (which he had a legal right to do) but after Biden came into office they were re-classified and he no longer had a legal right to possess them.

    Time123 (a44efa) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:28 am

    Again. Not possible.

    Now, I could see the administration “negotiate” with Trump people to claw back the documents because of disputes of classifications, especially if it wasn’t really public knowledge. But, it can’t be forced.

    If I had to guess (putting on my tinfoil hat), I think the FBI/DOJ wants that binder of declassified “Russian Hoax” document (that DNI Rafcliff also mentioned) to control it’s dissemination, if at all. I’m pretty sure it’s held back from being released in public at John Durham’s request.

    whembly (849622)

  70. @67 Of course you haven’t heard about BO doing it because no one is worried about a two term president getting re-elected and he’s a D. There’s no value in poking at that even though no one is above the law, etc.

    You could easily google it and it’d be an interesting read.

    So, the daily talking point will be that Trump did something no one else did and that narrative will run until people bring up counter-examples that will quickly be forgotten because a new narrative has come out.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  71. Whembly, I think retroactive classification is a thing.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2399547

    I agree that without safeguards it could be abused.

    Assuming what we’re talking about is what happened, I’m not sure that Trump taking documents, them being declassified by him in his head with no documentation, and then the next administration treating them as classified counts as a retroactive classification. But if it does I don’t fault the current administration for not honoring a declassification he didn’t document.

    I also think it is, and should be, possible to classify material that’s already in the public domain. For example if a president took a list of spy’s with him when he left office we would say no crime was committed because he was the president when he took them. They’re also now in the public domain because he’s now a public person. But the new administration would have a legitimate interest in regaining control of that list.

    Not saying this is what happened here but it’s an interesting thought experiment.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  72. Seems like one of the questions here is that I, as President, took away a very top secret document. I took no action to formally declassify the document. Did I start breaking the law on 1/20/2021, because I no longer have a right to that document?

    Whembly seems to think “of course not”! Others seems to think there is a problem here, and I guess the FBI does too.

    Is that the crux of the problem, as folks see it?

    Appalled (03f53c)

  73. FDR made the private possession of gold bullion illegal. By executive order. After that, people had to turn it in to the government at the government’s price.

    Due process only requires notice and an opportunity to conform one’s conduct to the requirements of the law. It’s not ex post facto if the conduct complained of occurs after the change in the law.

    And there are any number of other examples, done through legislation, regulation or executive order, and ranging from banning machine guns to smoking within 50 feet of federal property.

    So, it would not be a pretty case if the documents were classified or reclassified after Trump took them, but Trump still had to return them if 1) he still had them and 2) and this is important, he knew they were (now) classified.

    nk (27ce6b)

  74. The GOPe was gathered around Scott Walker whose campaign consultant made some comments on his relative softness on immigration. The GOPe failing was not being straight with Jeb circa the end of his 2 terms as FLGOV in early 2007 about lack of future.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  75. Go away Frosty.

    Time123 (a44efa) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:34 am

    Not today Time. Not today

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  76. I’m extremely dubious it’s “classified material he didn’t have legal authority to possess”. If it was document taken whilst he was still President, he should be fine.

    Trump had legal authority to possess the materials while he was president, but he doesn’t have security clearance in his post-presidency (actually, he never had security clearance, his access was inherent in the powers of his office), and Biden barred him from intelligence briefings the month after he left the White House.
    Also, there’s a process for declassifying classified materials, and it doesn’t involve Trump waving his arm over a box and chanting “declassified!” three times. I think he had to sign an Executive Order.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  77. @73 That’s sort of a question after a question since it assumes the very top secret document.

    In a hypothetical situation like you describe I’d say there’s no such thing as not formally declassifying a document. Some action is needed to declassify something beyond the little voice in a POTUS’s head and that can’t be done retroactively by him after his term. It doesn’t sound like a lot is needed but I’d also say there should be some process that lets other people weigh in. But a POTUS saying, when asked after the fact, yes, I declassified that before I left office and didn’t tell anyone shouldn’t be a thing.

    But that’s not the crux of this problem yet because that’s not the information we have. What we have is a dispute over things that should have gone to the national archives under the records act but didn’t. Or rather we have things the national archives has reason to think should be reviewed to determine if they should go to the archives. At least that the unofficial story we’ve been given.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  78. @72 I’m willing to be the document in question is the russia hoax binder, that was formerly declassified by EO. I don’t see how Biden could “reclassify” it, honestly.

    whembly (b770f8)

  79. thrawn
    /THrôn/
    adjective SCOTTISH

    1. twisted; crooked.
    “a slightly thrawn neck”

    2. perverse; ill-tempered.
    “your mother’s looking a bit thrawn this morning”

    nk (c261ef)

  80. Maybe it’s about time ex-Presidents get treated like everyone else.

    No, it’s not. It’s an office that demands much of the occupant and requires difficult choices, often among bad options.

    There is no Office of the Ex-President.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  81. Ilhan Omar defeats corporate stooge in minnesota democrat primary! …..

    asset (e5d170) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:12 am

    Barely. She won 50.3% to 48.2%, a difference of less than 2,500 votes and lost two out of the three counties in her district. Last time she won by 35,000. She will probably lose in November (not that is a bad thing).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  82. Obama took approximately 30 million documents of unknown classification.

    They’re unclassified, arranged with the National Archives, so it’s unlikely he took them without authorization and then hid them in his padlocked garage at Martha’s Vineyard. As they say, there’s no equivalency like a bogus equivalency.
    It’s already confirmed that there were classified documents in the batch the National Archives picked up earlier this year.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  83. Remember when a couple of Chinese nationals were caught and arrested for trespassing at MAL while Trump was president? Good times.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  84. The act of declassification is inherent in the position. There’s no magic act that maoes it so.

    NJRob (831f43)

  85. Obama took approximately 30 million documents of unknown classification.

    According to an agreement between the Obama Foundation and the National Archives, 30 million unclassified pages (not documents) are to be digitized by the Foundation with physical oversight by National Archives staff, paid for by the Obama Foundation, and subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  86. I don’t see how Biden could “reclassify” it, honestly.

    CAN INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN AUTOMATICALLY DECLASSIFIED BE RECLASSIFIED?

    Yes. Information that has not previously been disclosed to the public under proper authority may be classified or reclassified after an agency has received a request for it under the FOIA, Presidential Records Act, 44 USC 2204(c)(1), the Privacy Act of 1974, or the mandatory review provisions of E.O. 13526, only if such classification or reclassification meets the requirements of E.O. 13526, and is accomplished on a document-by-document basis with the personal participation or under the direction of the agency head, the deputy agency head, or the senior agency official. Information may not be reclassified after declassification and release to the public under proper authority.

    source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  87. @84 Remember when Swalwell, who was on the house intelligence committee, had the Chinese spy for a girlfriend. Or the Chinese spy who worked for Feinstein while she was head of the senate intelligence committee?

    Remember either of them being raided by the FBI? Yea, good times.

    It’s going to be interesting to see see if we ever learn what ultra sensitive material sat for 18 months in FL until the national archives was tired of waiting to file it away.

    frosty (6c350d)

  88. @85 But it has to be something. It has to be an act. Not just something that exists solely within the mind of a president and that can be retroactively claimed.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  89. The legal authority to reclassifying documents can be found ing Executive Order 13526– Classified National Security Information, Sec. 1.7, paragraphs (c), (d), and (e).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  90. Go away Frosty.

    Time123 (a44efa) — 8/11/2022 @ 7:34 am

    Not today Time. Not today
    frosty (bfb5a6) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:25 am

    Perverse as it may seem to some, I quite enjoy the exchanges between these two. Would that such exchanges, as these, had occurred at parties I’ve thrown in my past – I might have glanced over to the bar to see, perhaps, another Patterico commenter staring at me as if to say “these are your friends,” which would have been received with the warm acknowledgement “as are you.”

    felipe (484255)

  91. @90

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:31 am

    I stand corrected. It is possible to reclassify records.

    If that’s what is happening here, it’s all the more concerning on multiple levels.

    whembly (b770f8)

  92. @85 But it has to be something. It has to be an act. Not just something that exists solely within the mind of a president and that can be retroactively claimed.

    frosty (bfb5a6) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:31 am

    That is correct. Trump issued a Presidential Memorandum to the Attorney General and to the Directors of National Intelligence and CIA to declassify the Crossfire Hurricane documents.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  93. I stand corrected. It is possible to reclassify records.

    If that’s what is happening here, it’s all the more concerning on multiple levels.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:36 am

    We should find out in about a week if the search warrant is released.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  94. nk (0615d6) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:52 am

    Don’t be coy, tell us what you really think. ;-D

    felipe (484255)

  95. Whembly, If there’s evidence that Trump documented the declassification in some way I’d agree with you. As I will if it turns out the administration is playing games with the classification process.

    But If this was legitimately classified material that was ‘effectively declassified because the president took it’ without any record of that fact I’m not so troubled by the FBI executing a properly authorized search warrant.

    He’s a former president. I would expect him (and any of his predecessors) to return classified material in their possession if asked to do so.

    From what I’ve been able to find about presidential libraries his predecessors hired staff to manage which documents they would put in their libraries. I assume part of that is to avoid mistakes with classified material. I haven’t seen any reporting that Trump did that. He’s not required to do so by law. But that is the precedent.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  96. I don’t know how this plays out, but the first line of Merrick Garland’s obit has just been written.
    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 3:51 pm

    This wry observation/prediction is worth repeating. I like it, and commend you in the strongest terms!

    felipe (484255)

  97. Whembly, Question for you. If Trump had classified material in his possession, and the government had asked for it back, what steps and time should the government have taken or allowed before seizing the classified material?

    In other words, if we assume Trump wasn’t giving it back, either through refusal or denying that he had it, what would your ideal process be? Assume for the sake of the hypothetical that persuading him isn’t possible.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  98. The act of declassification is inherent in the position.

    If that’s true, why did the National Archives to go MAL and take back boxes of classified materials earlier this year? Why is Trump lawyering up? Maybe he forgot to wave his arm and make his chant, no? What we do know is that there is no record of him declassifying any of the materials he absconded to MAL.
    I think it’s questionable, this “he declassified them by osmosis” excuse, especially if there’s a situation where declassification is verboten by statute.
    It is true that Trump could spill classified information to a couple of Russians without legal blowback, because he declassified it by uttering it, no matter how unwise or damaging to national security it may be.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  99. @91, I find it tedious and I’m working on just skipping over his comments so I don’t notice when he’s responding to me directly. There’s nothing to be learned or gained from the interactions.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  100. Remember when Swalwell, who was on the house intelligence committee, had the Chinese spy for a girlfriend. Or the Chinese spy who worked for Feinstein while she was head of the senate intelligence committee?

    I do. Did Swalwell or Feinstein keep classified documents in their homes, “secured” by a padlocked door in their basements? I can’t seem to recall that.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  101. @98

    Whembly, Question for you. If Trump had classified material in his possession, and the government had asked for it back, what steps and time should the government have taken or allowed before seizing the classified material?

    In other words, if we assume Trump wasn’t giving it back, either through refusal or denying that he had it, what would your ideal process be? Assume for the sake of the hypothetical that persuading him isn’t possible.

    Time123 (a44efa) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:56 am

    Take him to court.

    whembly (b770f8)

  102. Is it a coincidence that this happened a few days after the FBI executed at search warrant at MAL?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  103. Is it a coincidence that this happened a few days after the FBI executed at search warrant at MAL?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:14 am

    See post 5.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  104. Take him to court.

    They did! They did take him to court!

    Issuance of a search warrant pursuant to the Fourth Amendment is as fully legal a judicial proceeding as a criminal trial pursuant to the Fifth and Sixth Amendments or a civil trial pursuant to the Seventh.

    nk (4f5636)

  105. Another tidbit: The request for surveillance video and additional documents was by grand jury subpoena.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  106. Disclaimer: Yes, I have a lot of time to kill, but this seems worth my time – but maybe not yours, so feel free to skip it.

    I believe that the time to test government power is when it is used against the person most deserving of excesses. That is when the town clowns are most tempted. When someone says “Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy” they have failed the test of caring what the rules are, and fallen into cheerleading for the thugs.
    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 3:54 pm

    Let me see if I understand you:

    So, some flag burners make a show of – burning flags in the public square and are forthwith arrested and jailed, and then convicted of the crimes with which they were charged.

    Some one in the media, say, publishes the words “couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.”

    Later, the conviction is goes through the appeals process and, ultimately, the conviction is overturned and upheld by the Nine – because the Constitution.

    One could say that the governments power was literally tested by the flag burner and that test was weighed in the courts where the “guy” was vindicated against the “thugs.”

    The “town clowns in this scenario are the “cheerleaders.”

    I have drawn a syllogism which is open to correction.

    felipe (484255)

  107. I’m duplicating Rip all over the place.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  108. Lighten up, Kevin M. Your 6 & 7 are overreactions.
    Dana (1225fc) — 8/10/2022 @ 4:02 pm

    This counsel seems ill-advised. I do not fault Kevin for not being dispassionate.

    felipe (484255)

  109. Whembly, that would have been better, if they were confident the documents were properly secured.

    Time123 (f66c4c)

  110. Lindsey Graham: “Me too!”
    He’s not the only one to defy a grand jury subpoena.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  111. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:24 am

    It may be that you are on the same wavelength. Just as I seem to be on Kevin’s wavelength today. I say “Kevin’s” because I resonate in sympathy.

    felipe (484255)

  112. ETA and if they were confident he’d been forthright about what material he had in his possession.

    Time123 (f66c4c)

  113. #112

    In fairness, Graham filed in Federal court to have the subpoena quashed and the hearings on that have not happened. If I understand those filings correctly, Graham would have to offer a fair amount of evidence about why he called Raffensparger that would be interesting to see.

    Appalled (576dd7)

  114. I’m duplicating Rip all over the place.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:24 am

    Great minds think alike. 😉 That and there is so much breaking news about this.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  115. nk (c261ef) — 8/11/2022 @ 8:46 am

    felipe (484255) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:34 am

    Heh! I was so close!

    felipe (484255)

  116. I see that the WaPo is now dialing the midterms to “11”, suggesting that if the GOP wins them, American democracy will fall.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/10/biden-us-historians-democracy-threat/

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  117. And there’s probably a difference between a sealed warrant and an unsealed warrant and between the literal search warrant paperwork and the affidavit used to obtain the warrant but the important thing here is that Trump, not the DOJ, could easily clear all of this up and Trump, and absolutely not the DOJ, has the obligation to do so.
    frosty (f2d295) — 8/11/2022 @ 5:15 am

    You should write for Archer! They could use the help.

    felipe (484255)

  118. I do. Did Swalwell or Feinstein keep classified documents in their homes, “secured” by a padlocked door in their basements? I can’t seem to recall that.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:04 am

    We don’t know because very little of that was made public. Did the FBI even investigate them? From the news reporting it sounds like the FBI just paid them a friendly visit and gave them a heads up.

    In the case of Feinstein the person worked as her driver for 20 years. Maybe Feinstein went 20 years without saying something in the car you wouldn’t want a Chinese spy to know? Maybe that spy didn’t have access to her house or her belongings. That’s something a NeverTrumper would believe.

    By all accounts Swalwell had an intimate relationship with his spy, although he denies it. For anyone else but D/NeverTrump that would be called a honeypot. For D/NeverTrump it’s sort of a boys will be boys thing.

    But hey, maybe there’s another way to float this idea that Trump was selling TS info to the highest bidder. Keep at it and you might strike oil.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  119. felipe (484255) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:34 am

    If we were at a party and I could pick my conversation partners I wouldn’t waste time with Time. I’d much rather try to pick a topic on religion with you.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  120. This just in: Garland to deliver statement this afternoon

    Attorney General Merrick Garland will deliver a statement at 2:30 p.m. Eastern on Thursday, the Justice Department said.

    It did not offer any details on what Garland will say.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  121. This is just the prettier version of the argument that it’s ok to do whatever is necessary to get Trump.

    “Whatever is necessary”?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  122. You should write for Archer! They could use the help.

    felipe (484255) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:58 am

    If only I could be so lucky. And yes they need help.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  123. Assume for the sake of the hypothetical that persuading him isn’t possible.

    Time123 (a44efa) — 8/11/2022 @ 9:56 am

    You wrote a lot of words but your hypo comes down to Trump has something and won’t give it back.

    In that case you’ve got two options: a) get it by force or b) let him keep it. Which one you choose depends on what the thing is.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  124. It will be interesting to see what Garland says or does not say.

    By the way — is it the assertion of the FBI negative group here that Trump/Trump’s lawyers does not have a copy of the warrant? I swear I have seen that assertion and it makes a difference as to simply saying “Trump could just clear this up by showing us the warrent”.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  125. @123 “?”

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  126. FBI warrant for search of Trump home may involve suspected violations of Espionage Act, former chief of DOJ national security says

    The former chief of the Justice Department’s national security division said Tuesday that the FBI warrant for the search of Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home in Palm Beach, Fla., suggests prosecutors believe they have probable cause that there may have been violations of the World War I-era Espionage Act.

    [The Act] also “actually has provisions that apply to essentially the mishandling [of classified material] through gross negligence, permitting documents to be removed from their proper place, or to be lost, stolen or destroyed,” Mary McCord, a veteran federal prosecutor who headed DOJ’s national security division in the closing years of the Obama administration…….
    …….
    “So it couldn’t be, ‘We thought the stuff was there a year ago, but not now.’ It would have to be probable cause to believe that evidence of a crime exists in that location at that time,” McCord said……..

    What follows is an edited conversation of the interview with McCord conducted by “Skullduggery” (podcast) co-hosts Michael Isikoff, Daniel Klaidman and Victoria Bassetti:
    ………
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  127. @126 My assertion is that I haven’t seen any evidence either way and I don’t assume either to be true. It’s a Schrödinger’s warrant.

    frosty (bfb5a6)

  128. @106

    Take him to court.

    They did! They did take him to court!

    Issuance of a search warrant pursuant to the Fourth Amendment is as fully legal a judicial proceeding as a criminal trial pursuant to the Fifth and Sixth Amendments or a civil trial pursuant to the Seventh.

    nk (4f5636) — 8/11/2022 @ 10:19 am

    You’re right on that part.

    I’m talking about in Time’s hypothetical that if this was simply a document dispute, that to sue Trump for it in court.

    Rather than, apparently, crossing the Rubicon in setting dangerous new precedents of a sitting President’s administration siccing the FBI on his likely political opponents.

    As critics of Trump likes to opine… Appearance of non-partisanship is important.

    whembly (b770f8)

  129. Whembly, Maybe, not clear the POTUS can pardon themselves.

    Any reading of the discussion in the Constitutional Convention regarding the pardon power would convince you that the Founders never contemplated such a thing. They were very worried about a traitorous executive able to pardon his henchmen to avoid them being pressured to flip on their boss, but they never once considered him pardoning himself.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  130. Subpoena Preceded Search Warrant in Push to Retrieve Material From Trump

    ……..
    The search warrant was broad, allowing the agents to investigate all areas of the club where classified materials might have been stored. They went through the basement, Mr. Trump’s office and at least part of his residence at the club.

    After hours of searching, they left with several boxes that were not filled to the brim and in some cases simply contained sealed envelopes of material that the agents took and were otherwise empty, one person familiar with the search said.

    The person said that the F.B.I. left behind a two-page manifest of what was taken.

    Mr. Trump’s team has declined to disclose the contents of the search warrant. A number of organizations, including The New York Times, are seeking in federal court to have it unsealed.

    Some senior Republicans have been warned by allies of Mr. Trump not to continue to be aggressive in criticizing the Justice Department and the F.B.I. over the matter because it is possible that more damaging information related to the search will become public.
    ………
    ……. [O]thers familiar with federal officials’ efforts to recover the documents have said that Mr. Trump resisted returning property that belonged to the government, despite being told that he needed to.

    Some of Mr. Trump’s informal advisers outside his direct employ have insisted to him that he can claim the documents are personal items and keep them.
    ##########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  131. frosty (bfb5a6) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:10 am

    Funny that you complained about me whatabouting, yet here you are the next day, whatabouting.
    For Feinstein, it looks like the FBI was involved with Feinstein, but the staffer didn’t have access to classified intel and was sacked.
    And it sounds like the FBI also checked out Swalwell.
    Since the FBI didn’t issue indictments in either case, there’s not much else available. Are you insinuating that the FBI didn’t do their job?
    Neither story negates the notion that it’s not okay to keep classified materials in a padlocked country club basement storage locker.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  132. @131

    Whembly, Maybe, not clear the POTUS can pardon themselves.

    Any reading of the discussion in the Constitutional Convention regarding the pardon power would convince you that the Founders never contemplated such a thing. They were very worried about a traitorous executive able to pardon his henchmen to avoid them being pressured to flip on their boss, but they never once considered him pardoning himself.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:43 am

    I’m going from my memory of either the federalist papers or some other supporting documents of that time, but I’m pretty sure that was contemplated. They just didn’t have an answer for it.

    Hence why, one of the reasons the Impeachment power was defined in such a way that didn’t need broken penal laws.

    whembly (b770f8)

  133. The Administration and its controlling Politburo are concerned about one thing, and it’s NOT Donald Trump.

    It’s about winning the midterms. Gaining a seat or two in the Senate and holding the House. Everything they do is tested against that goal.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  134. @123 “?”

    Yes, I put that question mark there deliberately. What does “whatever is necessary” mean to you?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  135. I’m going from my memory of either the federalist papers or some other supporting documents of that time, but I’m pretty sure that was contemplated.

    No, it wasn’t.


    Records of the Federal Convention of 1787

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  136. I’m going from my memory of either the federalist papers or some other supporting documents of that time, but I’m pretty sure that was contemplated.

    No, it wasn’t.

    Records of the Federal Convention of 1787

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:52 am

    Right. I’m reasonable convinced it wasn’t there. But documentations wasn’t limited to what you posted in that link. There are plethora of contemporary letters and stories.

    I think the discussion centered around how/how-not “kingly” the Presidency ought to be.

    I’ll have to dig for it again, but that came up in the height of the Mueller investigation where there was topics galore on Trump pardoning himself to shut down that investigation.

    whembly (b770f8)

  137. Funny that you complained about me whatabouting, yet here you are the next day, whatabouting.

    Not exactly. But even if I did I waited more than 11 minutes.

    Since the FBI didn’t issue indictments in either case, there’s not much else available. Are you insinuating that the FBI didn’t do their job?

    I’m pointing out that they have a different set of rules for different people. And so, apparently, do you.

    Neither story negates the notion that it’s not okay to keep classified materials in a padlocked country club basement storage locker.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:47 am

    And I didn’t say it did which is why it’s not a whatabout. I know this is confusing but there’s a difference between pointing out different treatment and a whatabout.

    frosty (398d26)

  138. Confirmed. AG Garland personally approved the raid on Trump, as many had opined who had to authorize it.

    There better be a damn good reason for this.

    I’m not see it.

    whembly (b770f8)

  139. > I see that the WaPo is now dialing the midterms to “11”, suggesting that if the GOP wins them, American democracy will fall.

    I’ve believed both that if the republicans win control of both houses of Congress in 2022, they will use their power to help Trump rig the 2024 election in his favor *and* that they were more likely to win in 2022 than not since the day after the 2020 election.

    I’ve seen nothing in the ensuing almost two years that changes my view of what the Republicans will do if they are handed power, and if anything, I think they’re *more* likely to help Trump rig the 2024 elections.

    Your party has been taken over by a man who views loyalty to himself as the highest value, and who actually does not care about procedure or process except to the extent that he can twist it to serve his own personal ends – and the party has fallen in line behind him.

    aphrael (954d17)

  140. > I’m not see it.

    Given that this is Garland, you likely won’t see it until an indictment drops. He seems to play everything very, very, very close to the vest.

    aphrael (954d17)

  141. Trump may not reveal the contents of the warrant, but Garland will.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  142. I’m pointing out that they have a different set of rules for different people.

    This is speculation, opinion, frosty, because you don’t actually know the particulars of the cases.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  143. Jonah

    So, it’s gonna be wild if/when Trump’s lawyers fight the unsealing of a warrant no one would know existed if Trump hadn’t told the world in an angry screed that the FBI searched his house in the first place.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  144. @140. “Trust us: we’re the government.”

    Royalists needs no reason. Haven’t you heard? Of course you see it: they don’t work for you: you work for them.

    The war between the Royalists and the Populists is heating up. Pelosi doesn’t need to justify to YOU, who pays her salary, taking her kid along to Asia nor muting chatters on her husband’s DUI; nor does Biden need to justify dragged his drugged out crook of a kid aboard AF1 to soil a seat.

    An FBI office in Cincinnati was attacked

    Armed man approaches FBI’s Cincinnati office, injured in standoff with cops
    The incident happened a day after FBI director Christopher Wray denounced threats against the agency after a warrant was served at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home.

    https://www.wltx.com/article/news/nation-world/fbi-office-armed-man/507-b8826d41-b536-44e2-970a-1b8e9fac02ad#:~:text=CINCINNATI%20%E2%80%94%20An%20armed%20man%20approached%20the%20visitor,71%2C%20which%20was%20then%20closed%20in%20both%20directions.

    And the IRS Army, which already has 4,600 guns and five million rounds of ammo and 75,000 agents. Soon will have 87,000 more agents.

    This isn’t a D or R thing anymore.

    It’s war by the entrenched establishment on the outsiders, We The People, who dare to temper the gravy train they pay for; to challenge rationales for endless wars, windmills, lockdowns, and supply chain shortages; to halt billions to corrupt regimes and stop abandoning billion in resources, for starters.

    DCSCA (18255f)

  145. Since the FBI didn’t issue indictments in either case…..

    The FBI doesn’t issue indictments.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  146. Given that this is Garland, you likely won’t see it until an indictment drops. He seems to play everything very, very, very close to the vest.

    aphrael (954d17) — 8/11/2022 @ 12:37 pm

    As the DOJ generally does. They rarely, if ever, comment on on-going investigations, which gives free rein to politicians, conspiracy theorists, and the news media to stuff up. Comey was certainly an exception to standard DOJ practice.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  147. It will be interesting to see what Garland says or does not say

    Who cares. He’s Barney Fife. As long as Hunter’s ridin’ high on Air Force One, AG Milquetoast has zero gravitas. Otis Campbell would make a better AG.

    DCSCA (18255f)

  148. From Mike Davis, former Gorsuch law clerk and counsel for the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary.

    I think this is right for this context:

    The President of the United States has both the constitutional (and statutory) power to declassify anything he wants.

    If President Trump left the White House with classified records, they are declassified by his actions.

    Period.

    All former Presidents get a federally funded office.

    Office of the Former President

    With staff.

    And security clearances.

    And Secret Service protection.

    And secure facilities (SCIFs) for classified records.

    Even if Trump had classified records, they were protected.

    Period

    All Presidents take records when they leave.

    They don’t pack their own boxes.

    National Archives takes the position that almost everything is a “presidential record.”

    The federal government over-classifies almost everything.
    It’s routine for any Office of the Former President to negotiate with National Archives.

    They could’ve alerted Congress.

    The Biden DOJ could’ve filed a civil lawsuit.

    They could’ve sought a subpoena.

    But unprecedented home raid?!

    Trump’s had these records for 18 months!

    whembly (b770f8)

  149. Justice Department’s motion to unseal the search warrant of former President Trump’s home.

    Nothing of real interest except the legal argument. I’m certain the warrant and attachments will be heavily redacted. What will be interesting is if Trump, knowing what was seized, will object. Then the shoe will be on the other foot.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  150. #149 (DCSCA)

    Barney Fife? That makes Biden Sheriff Andy, and you didn’t mean to say that, I’m sure.

    And I was interested in what Garland has to say because I want to see that warrant. Apparently, he’ll ask the judge to unseal it, which may be a polite way of burying the thing, while pretending transparency. I would have thought Trump would behave like he did when the Ukraine thing was breaking, and publish the warrant. Guess not. Or, at least, not today. He might be sleepy from taking so many Fifths up in New York.

    Appalled (576dd7)

  151. @152. Not according to Squinty- who insists he’s independent of AG Fife.

    DCSCA (18255f)

  152. If President Trump left the White House with classified records, they are declassified by his actions.

    That is the nut of the problem, whembly, as I see it. “By his actions”, Trump secretly took property that belonged to the American people, property that was not his personally.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  153. Arrest Hunter Biden, Barney.

    DCSCA (18255f)

  154. The last group of Royalists who raided a president’s home wore redcoats, too:

    In August 1814, British soldiers invaded Washington D.C. They looted the White House and set fire to it.

    historynewsnetwork.org/article/18418

    DCSCA (18255f)

  155. #155 — For what, improper completion of a firearms permit?

    Appalled (576dd7)

  156. Trump could file a motion /today/ that he doesn’t oppose unsealing the warrant. He could also just release a copy.

    Anyone want to bet that he does either?

    Time123 (f66c4c)

  157. @155 who cares. If he’s got unpaid parking tickets throw the book at at him. I’m 💯 here for scrutiny of relatives of elected officials that cash in on their connections. I’m sure it won’t stop there but if it has a chance of slowing down the self dealing I say we try it.

    Time123 (f66c4c)

  158. Royalists Be Damned!

    British troops set fire to the White House

    On August 24, 1814, during the War of 1812 between the United States and England, British troops enter Washington, D.C. and burn the White House in retaliation for the American attack on the city of York in Ontario, Canada, in June 1813.

    When the British arrived at the White House, they found that President James Madison and his first lady Dolley had already fled to safety in Maryland. Soldiers reportedly sat down to eat a meal made of leftover food from the White House scullery using White House dishes and silver before ransacking the presidential mansion and setting it ablaze.

    According to the White House Historical Society and Dolley’s personal letters, President James Madison had left the White House on August 22 to meet with his generals on the battlefield, just as British troops threatened to enter the capitol. Before leaving, he asked his wife Dolley if she had the “courage or firmness” to wait for his intended return the next day. He asked her to gather important state papers and be prepared to abandon the White House at any moment.

    The next day, Dolley and a few servants scanned the horizon with spyglasses waiting for either Madison or the British army to show up. As British troops gathered in the distance, Dolley decided to abandon the couple’s personal belongings and instead saved a full-length portrait of former president George Washington from desecration. Dolley wrote to her sister on the night of August 23 of the difficulty involved in saving the painting. Since the portrait was screwed to the wall, she ordered the frame to be broken and the canvas pulled out and rolled up. Two unidentified “gentlemen from New York” hustled it away for safe-keeping. (Unbeknownst to Dolley the portrait was actually a copy of Gilbert Stuart’s original). The task complete, Dolley wrote “and now, dear sister, I must leave this house, or the retreating army will make me a prisoner in it by filling up the road I am directed to take.” Dolley left the White House and found her husband at their predetermined meeting place in the middle of a thunderstorm. Although President Madison and his wife were able to return to Washington only three days later when British troops had moved on, they never again lived in the White House. Madison served the rest of his term residing at the city’s Octagon House. It was not until 1817 that newly elected president James Monroe moved back into the reconstructed building.

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/british-troops-set-fire-to-the-white-house

    DCSCA (18255f)

  159. But unprecedented home raid?!

    That because the documents were just a pretext. They weren’t really looking for classified documents.

    They were looking for documents regarding Trump’s involvement in a J6 conspiracy*, but they couldn’t get a warrant for that. But they could for this new “mishandling” law since their spy had seen classified documents. And “documents” gave them wide latitude in collecting up what they wanted, along with all the other chaff.

    To cover their ass, they will include the mishandling charge in any indictment and be VERY unwilling to drop it, for fear their conspiracy evidence from this raid would go with it.

    ———–
    * and the claim that things were planted suggests they found some.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  160. @157. Public drunkenness, running a still and selling street art without a license for starters; he can share a cell with Otis.

    There are no prostitutes in Mayberry. But Mt. Pilot may have a bordello or two. 😉

    DCSCA (18255f)

  161. Trump secretly took property that belonged to the American people, property that was not his personally.

    Do you really think that Clinton, W or Obama didn’t take anything?

    Do you really think that Trump sat in the middle of the Oval Office and directed what went into which box?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  162. AG Fife isn’t any better at reading a teleprompter than Squinty.

    DCSCA (18255f)

  163. 163. Remember all those White House computer keyboards which had the “W’ removed by staffers?

    Arrest them all! Prosecute ’em!

    DCSCA (18255f)

  164. Test.

    whembly (b770f8)

  165. Remember all those White House computer keyboards which had the “W’ removed by staffers?

    When parties change, I suspect that every computer is wiped by the old staff and thrown out by the new staff.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  166. @167. No excuse! It’s WH/government property! Prosecute!

    DCSCA (18255f)

  167. Do you really think that Clinton, W or Obama didn’t take anything?

    Blame the beefed-up Federal Records Act, which Trump signed, Kevin. What goes around, I guess.
    I don’t doubt that prior presidents took stuff they shouldn’t have, but I doubt that stuff was classified.

    Do you really think that Trump sat in the middle of the Oval Office and directed what went into which box?

    Not the you phrased it. It’s possible he directed staff to take certain subject matter–perhaps incriminating subject matter–to MAL, including classified materials, rather than leave it to WH archivists, and I suppose that’s what this investigation is about.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  168. That because the documents were just a pretext. They weren’t really looking for classified documents.

    So a raid search of a crime.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (18255f)

  169. https://wtop.com/national/2022/08/armed-man-approaches-fbi-office-exchanges-gunfire-with-cops/

    ‘There have been growing threats in recent days against FBI agents and offices across the country since federal agents executed a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago. On Gab, a social media site popular with white supremacists and antisemites, users have warned they are preparing for an armed revolution.’

    DCSCA (18255f)

  170. The gopvernment owned telephone used by The Big Dick to call and speak to the Apollo 11 astronauts on the moon was taken by Nixon from the White house. It is on display in his Yorba Linda museum. Raid it, Barney!

    DCSCA (18255f)

  171. Trump Responds to Merrick Garland, Fumes That FBI Agents Left Melania’s Closet a ‘Mess’

    Donald Trump responded to Attorney General Merrick Garland’s statement about the raid of the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate and fumed that FBI agents left former First Lady Melania Trump’s closet a “mess.”

    Garland said on Thursday that he personally approved the warrant for the Monday raid, whose purpose is unknown and which Garland did not address. He announced that the Department of Justice has asked a court to unseal the warrant. Garland also condemned what he called “unfounded attacks” in the aftermath of the raid, which outraged Trump and his allies.

    According to the New York Times, the search concerned classified documents that Trump took from the White House after he left office. According to Newsweek, the raid was not related to the Department of Justice’s probe of Trump’s conduct surrounding Jan. 6.

    In a couple posts on his social network, Truth Social, Trump blasted Garland and the FBI. “My attorneys and representatives were cooperating fully, and very good relationships had been established. The government could have had whatever they wanted, if we had it. They asked us to put an additional lock on a certain area – DONE! Everything was fine, better than that of most previous Presidents, and then, out of nowhere and with no warning, Mar-a-Lago was raided, at 6:30 in the morning, by VERY large numbers of agents, and even “safecrackers.” They got way ahead of themselves. Crazy!” he posted.

    “….Just learned that agents went through the First Lady’s closets and rummaged through her clothing and personal items. Surprisingly, left area in a relative mess. Wow!” added Trump.

    Trump’s counsel has until 3 p.m. ET Friday to accept the DOJ’s request for the warrant to be publicized.

    The post Trump Responds to Merrick Garland, Fumes That FBI Agents Left Melania’s Closet a ‘Mess’ first appeared on Mediaite. – mediaite.com

    DCSCA (18255f)

  172. > Do you really think that Clinton, W or Obama didn’t take anything?

    Congress passed, and Trump himself signed, a law making this a worse offense than it had been previously, *specifically in response to Clinton*.

    It’s almost as if Trump thinks he’s above the very laws he himself advocated for and signed.

    aphrael (954d17)

  173. As critics of Trump likes to opine… Appearance of non-partisanship is important.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/11/2022 @ 11:40 am

    Assuming hypothetically the search was to recover classified material that Trump refused to return or lied about having, if the goal is the appearance of non-partisanship it seems to me the DOJ and FBI would follow its customary procedures for retrieving such material from citizens who aren’t ex-presidents. According to subject-matter experts Alberto Gonzalez and Peter Strzok, both Republicans by the way, that’s what they did.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  174. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/11/2022 @ 2:34 pm

    Assuming hypothetically the search was to recover classified material that Trump refused to return or lied about having,

    It’s reportedly based on an informant at Mar-a-Lago who said that there will still things at Mar-a-Lago that could be considered classified, but maybe were not marked so. Maybe some SCI. (Sensitive Compartmented Information)

    Like what? What could that be? Names of people involved in anti-terrorist operations, whom Trump considered or had considered, giving an award to but was dissuauded from? (but he wanted to hold onto those names)

    Trump had turned over material to the National Archives in January (this was without regard to any of being considered classified) and a few documents to the FBI on June 3 in response toa subpoena issued in May.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  175. I don’t know the answer to any of those questions, Sammy. As I’ve said ad nauseam, all discussion of this incident before we’ve seen the search warrant, the affidavit, and the search results is speculative. But if people want to engage in those hypothetical discussions, I’m happy to join in so long as it’s clear that that’s what we’re doing, and that any conclusions purporting to be definitive have been pulled straight out of the opiner’s a$$.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  176. Lurker,

    pretending Strzok is a Republican is especially laughable. Pepperidge Farm remembers the truth

    https://nypost.com/2018/06/14/texts-reveal-disgraced-fbi-agent-told-lover-well-stop-trump/

    A top FBI agent involved in the investigation of Hillary Clinton’s e-mails told a colleague in 2016 that “we’ll stop” Donald Trump from becoming president, according to the Justice Department’s inspector general.

    The explosive comment came during an exchange of text messages between agent Peter Strzok and his lover, FBI lawyer Lisa Page, in August 2016, IG Michael Horowitz’s report revealed Thursday.

    “[Trump’s] not ever going to become president, right? Right?!” Page texted Strzok.

    “No. No he won’t. We’ll stop it,” Strzok responded.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  177. pretending Strzok is a Republican is especially laughable.

    False premise. A person can be an anti-Trump Republican.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  178. Strzok and Page, seriously? A couple of mice musing about belling the cat nearly six years ago? Is that the size of it?

    nk (23bf78)

  179. nearly six years ago?

    nk (23bf78)

  180. Time123 (f66c4c) — 8/11/2022 @ 6:17 am

    Nk, I hope you’re wrong. If not if means another election with no good choices for president

    Maybe that could improve the choiches.

    There’s nothing that could get anothermajor candidate into the race than it appearing likely, at the start of 2023 that the two major party nominees will be Donald Trump and Joe Biden r Kamala Harris.

    Exceot that the probability is high that a thurd party candidate would be no good either.

    But maybe there’s somebody out there.

    And who could cause Donald Trump to poll thurd

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  181. Nk,

    Pathetic attempt at minimizing their act to overthrow the republic. America hasn’t forgotten the fraud that was Crossfire Hurricane.

    Did you use any of Hillary’s BS dossier like the FBI did?

    NJRob (76ec6c)

  182. Pathetic attempt at minimizing their act to overthrow the republic.

    No hyperbole there.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  183. Is it hyperbole? They didn’t want the guy in there in the first place, put the nation through the wringer and at a disadvantage for the four years of his term, with their lies and bullsh*t.

    And it continues to this day.

    Colonel Haiku (cc3f41)

  184. Per the IG Crossfire Hurricane was properly predicted and was not approved bill Priestrap. Not struzk or page.

    Time123 (b0b8ea)

  185. @188

    Per the IG Crossfire Hurricane was properly predicted and was not approved bill Priestrap. Not struzk or page.

    Time123 (b0b8ea) — 8/12/2022 @ 9:13 am

    That’s not a defense Time.

    It can be both “predicated by the letter” and still be an abuse of power.

    whembly (b770f8)

  186. Whembly, I read the IG report and remember the details from the time. (Trump’s public statements, statements made by members of the campaign, Paul Manafort’s shenanigans, Trump Firing the head of the FBI to stop the investigation.) It still seems reasonable to me to investigate connections between the Trump campaign and the Russian government’s hack off the DNC server.

    Time123 (a44efa)

  187. Well, I am not a Blade Runner, I am little people, so a Strzok or a Page plotting against me would worry me. But Trump is not supposed to be little people. To him they should be “One cashew, one Strzok, one sip of Diet Coke, one peanut, one Page, one sip of Diet Coke, ….” If you know what I mean.

    nk (23bf78)


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