Patterico's Pontifications

8/9/2022

Never Let A Crisis Go To Waste: Cashing In On Yesterday’s Events At Mar-a-Lago

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:19 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Because never letting a crisis goes to waste is the mantra of politicians grifters on both sides of the political aisle. But certainly, the MAGA crew steals the spotlight here.

First, though, I want to share how a few prominent MAGA self-proclaimed law enforcement supporters responded to the FBI lawfully searching Donald Trump’s Florida residence yesterday:

Republican members of Congress said Tuesday they want to dismantle the FBI or “clean house” at the Department of Justice after agents raided the Florida estate of former President Donald Trump.

“This is Gestapo crap and it will not stand. The Department of Injustice needs to be cleaned out if they are going to start pretending we are some kind of banana republic,” Rep. Lauren Boebert, Colorado Republican, said in a Twitter video.

Rep. Paul Gosar, Arizona Republican, also invoked the Nazi era, tweeting: “I will support a complete dismantling and elimination of the democrat brown shirts known as the FBI. This is too much for our republic to withstand.”

[…]

“DEFUND THE FBI!” Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Republican, posted.

And from Rep. Matt Gaetz:

The FBI raid of Mar-A-Lago is the most defining moment of the Joe Biden presidency. It was a political performance against Trump. The antidote has to be NOT ONE MORE damn penny for this administrative state that has been weaponized against our people in a very fascist way.

Here’s how MAGA politicians, pacs and fundraising committees are cashing in on that, uh, FBI “Gestapo crap” at Mar-a-Lago:

A volley of emails on Monday night and Tuesday morning denounced the FBI’s search warrant — reportedly connected to classified materials that Trump allegedly brought to his Florida resort after leaving the White House — and slammed both the agency and the Biden administration.

“Biden’s FBI raided President Trump’s beautiful Florida home,” the Republican National Committee wrote in a fundraising email, adding that “it’s hard to believe it but it’s true.”

“These are dark times for our Nation,” read an email from Trump’s fundraising team. “The lawlessness, political persecution, and Witch Hunt, must be exposed and stopped.”

An email from the National Republican Senatorial Committee called the raid “unprecedented,” while Trump’s political action committee Save America and the Tea Party Patriots Action group both railed against Democrats and the Biden administration in their fundraising emails.

The National Republican Congressional Committee asked for money and said donations will matched by anonymous donors, calling the effort a “last chance” to “save” Trump.

[…]

Rep. Jim Jordan attacked Democrats and asked for money so Republicans can secure House majority during the upcoming elections. Emails from GOP Sens. Chuck Grassley and Marsha Blackburn also slammed the “Democrat-controlled” FBI, asking for donations and support.

Marjorie Taylor Greene is also hawking tee shirts and caps:

Obviously, the king of grifters himself is fundraising off this latest “witch hunt”:

MAGA Republicans don’t seem the least bit interested in whether Trump violated the law. They are concerned with making bank off a crisis and promoting the goodness of Donald Trump while condemning the evil Merrick Garland, the FBI, the judge who signed off on the search warrant, the Justice Department, and all other “enemies” of Trump. Sad!

And just so you won’t scream, yes, Democrats took advantage of the moment too. As I’ve long maintained: Trump is the gift that keeps on giving:

Democratic political action committees — like American Bridge and Never Again — linked the raid to fundraising, praising the Justice Department and the FBI.

Anyway, I’ll just leave this here:

If we really believe, as we say we believe, that this is a republic, that nobody is above the law, that the presidency is just a temporary executive-branch office rather than a quasi-royal entitlement, then there is nothing all that remarkable about the FBI serving a warrant on a house in Florida. I myself do not find it especially difficult to believe that there exists reasonable cause for such a warrant. And if the feds have got it wrong, that wouldn’t be the first time. Those so-called conservatives who are publicly fantasizing about an FBI purge under the next Republican administration are engaged in a particularly stupid form of irresponsibility.

Amen.

–Dana

205 Responses to “Never Let A Crisis Go To Waste: Cashing In On Yesterday’s Events At Mar-a-Lago”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who praised Garland’s “long reputation as a straight-shooter and legal expert” at the time of his confirmation.
    what a punk

    mg (8cbc69)

  3. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said Garland “would be a sound choice to be the next Attorney General. He is a man of great character, integrity, and tremendous competency in the law.”
    another punk

    mg (8cbc69)

  4. It’s obvious Merrick Garland is no “straight shooter,” and Republicans who aren’t actively opposing the political weaponization of his federal law enforcement agency are part of the problem. Voters should be watching how their elected representatives respond — or don’t — to his most recent and most outrageous abuse of power.
    punks on steroids

    mg (8cbc69)

  5. #HillaryToo

    Hillary Clinton promotes ‘But Her Emails’ merch after FBI search of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago

    A day after the FBI conducted a search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate, Hillary Clinton responded on Tuesday with a tweet promoting merchandise emblazoned with the phrase “But Her Emails” — which has become the sardonic response among her supporters to Trump’s many scandals.

    And she’s got Twitter and Trump doesn’t!

    nk (825948)

  6. 91 days before the election and the FBI goes after Rick Scott and seizes his cell phone. 90 days before and they’d be precluded from meddling in the election

    Banana Republic on steroids.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  7. You know, nk, I had included Hillary’s tweet in the post, but frankly, she just irrelevant, so I deleted it. Why bother?

    But as I recall, she was like Priority #1: Lock her up! Whatever happened to that pledge?

    Dana (1225fc)

  8. Please, Meliana!!!

    Auction off all your official, PANTIE RAIDED, FBI man-handled panties as a fund-raiser, dear!

    Americans will buy anything. Ask Joe Biden

    DCSCA (e21cab)

  9. @4. It’s obvious Merrick Garland is no “straight shooter,” and Republicans who aren’t actively opposing the political weaponization of his federal law enforcement agency are part of the problem. Voters should be watching how their elected representatives respond — or don’t — to his most recent and most outrageous abuse of power. punks on steroids

    It only took 24 hours but they’ve already lost the high ground– and all credibility– on the media battlefield. Garland’s DOJ is on the defensive and the FBI is a joke.

    The stink of fear is all over this. The DNC internals must show it’s gonna be a bloodbath in November.

    DCSCA (e21cab)

  10. I’m just trying to think how everyone would have reacted to a 2016 Hillary Clinton at that time of improperly having classified messages passing through her server rather than saying “sure I’ll have my lawyers go through the whole thing and turn over anything relevant.” Saying “no I won’t turn anything over.”

    Would her server have been seized? I suspect it would have been. And I suspect it would have been under intense public pressure that it should be. And I suspect almost everyone here would have been ok with such an action. Including those who are now very upset at a similar situation.

    Nate (1f1d55)

  11. It’s all the poor, oppressed victims of a cruel and unjust banana republic which tyrannically refuses to put them in charge so they can lead the rest of us to a better world, Dana.

    Nah! I can’t make heads or tails of any of those people. I do see them stirring up their fervent faithful while turning everybody else off. But I like leaders who are not victims.

    nk (825948)

  12. @10. No surprise. The Royalists are on the march. And they’re scared. Remember how the entrenched Soviet bureaucrats- the generals, who tried their coup to purge Gorby, wavered and collapsed as Gorby returned w/Yeltsin’s blessings. This is America’s Deep State cracking. They’re terrified of an outsider who’ll overturn the applecart.

    DCSCA (e21cab)

  13. Damn! Forgot to buy a ‘physical copy of today’s newspaper’ to fold and keep in an acid-free archival sleeve.

    Forgive me, Rachel! 😉

    DCSCA (e21cab)

  14. House minority leader kevin mccarthy said if republicans take control of the house in 2022 he will strip the squad of committee assignments instead of eric swalwell and adam schiff. Nanzi pelosi must of made another deal as democrat leaders hate the squad more then mccarthy does! If you want to scare democrats strip pelosi, swalwell, schiff and all the black committee chairs of their leadership on committees so they can’t grift. That would scare them!

    asset (decbdb)

  15. But as I recall, she was like Priority #1: Lock her up! Whatever happened to that pledge?
    Dana (1225fc) — 8/9/2022 @ 6:54 pm

    it was mocked

    by the same people now pledging to lock him up

    JF (a6d404)

  16. Why wouldn’t team Trump raise funds off of this? So far this looks like it backfired on team D/NeverTrump like some bad W.E. Coyote plan.

    But as I recall, she was like Priority #1: Lock her up! Whatever happened to that pledge?

    The DOJ made it clear they weren’t touching it and they made it clear Trump couldn’t make them.

    MAGA Republicans don’t seem the least bit interested in whether Trump violated the law.

    This would have more weight if D/NeverTrump was the least bit interested either. One side assumes he didn’t and the other side assumes he did and neither side his any idea what law he’s supposed to have broken.

    while condemning the … and all other “enemies” of Trump

    The reflexive good and evil claims are not productive. But if I’ve got to pick between reflexively claiming a variety of state actors are simply incapable of abusing their power and reflexively claiming an individual is innocent until proven guilty I’ll pick the second one.

    frosty (0c5006)

  17. Search warrants are not limited to evidence of a crime. They can also be used to recover contraband. If somebody has government property he is not supposed to have and does not voluntarily give it back, then a warrant can be used to take it. Sniveling about it is protected by the First Amendment.

    nk (b1dd16)

  18. Lol

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  19. But was it lawful? If a statute that is never used by itself to prosecute is the only thing that the search hangs on, and this is used for the first ever search of a former president’s residence, that claim strike me as weak, if not a bad joke.

    There was a dispute over papers. This was really a civil matter, not a criminal one. They could have sued him for return of the papers, got their judgement and sent the marshals. Instead they chose to humiliate him.

    That’s a purely political act and it will come back to haunt them.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  20. That certain people who dial everything to “11” dial this to “11” does not mean that there are no justified criticisms. It’s a slimy way to denigrate an argument to only show the arguments of the crazy people.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  21. They really want to win the midterms and they will do literally anything to do that. ANYTHING.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  22. You know, nk, I had included Hillary’s tweet in the post, but frankly, she just irrelevant, so I deleted it. Why bother?

    Is she? Did they ever get all those documents off her server? Are they certain she has no copies in the cloud?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  23. There was a dispute over papers. This was really a civil matter, not a criminal one. They could have sued him for return of the papers, got their judgement and sent the marshals.

    You keep saying that, ipse dixit. How do you know it was a civil, not criminal matter? Have you seen the warrant and affidavit? A federal magistrate judge who has seen them concluded there’s probable cause a crime was committed. And even assuming arguendo it was just a “dispute over papers,” how do you know the litigation remedy you recommended is acceptable practice for retrieving TS/SCI documents? As I mentioned in the other thread, people who know better than I (and I assume you), e.g., Alberto Gonzalez, say it’s not.

    That’s a purely political act and it will come back to haunt them.

    You’re making a lot of unsupported blanket assertions. Pending hard evidence, I have no idea yet, and I see no indication you do either, whether the search was mandated by our national security, a grave injustice, or something in between. So it seems a bit premature to be declaring whom if anyone it will come back to haunt. Either way, see my comment @19.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  24. That certain people who dial everything to “11” dial this to “11” does not mean that there are no justified criticisms.

    True. That the people making purportedly justified criticisms haven’t yet seen the evidence necessary to form that conclusion is what makes them unjustified. As for the bat$hittery coming from the dial everything to 11 crowd, when those people include powerful members of Congress and a past and maybe future President of the United States, it’s newsworthy.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  25. Pending hard evidence, I have no idea yet, and I see no indication you do either, whether the search was mandated by our national security, a grave injustice, or something in between.

    ROFLMAOPIP. Trump left office 1/20/21 so attempting to pitch a raid 18 months later as a ‘national security’ justification to toss his house and rummage through Meliana’s drawers is hilarious. 18 months! Who knew the defense plans for Taiwan were safely stitched into a pair of her panties from her Victoria’s Secret.

    This was pure political harassment; and poorly executed, too, by fearful bureaucratic Royalists who’ve lost control over a Populist movement their own incompetence created. Next come any supporters targeted as enemies of the Deep State– and audits for everybody’s Christmas stockings. It’ll all backfire; if he wasn’t sure he’d run– he surely will now– and announce post-midterms in 90 days.

    DCSCA (b5ff19)

  26. Mother charged with helping her daughter find abortion medicine to end pregnancy in nebraska. This after nebraska gov. cancelled special session of legislature to pass law making abortion illegal in state as republicans running for election refused to support special session.

    asset (de1e06)

  27. The Trumpeter is building houses and condos and inviting his friends to live inside your rent free head.

    mg (8cbc69)

  28. Lizzy packed in 20-30 morons at her rally yesterday, 10-15 more than dementia joe.
    Progress.

    mg (8cbc69)

  29. Trump probably has Epsteins client list and the lefty judge is on it.

    mg (8cbc69)

  30. It is funny how so many conservatives were outraged about left-wingers’ “defund the police” blather, yet here are “conservatives” like Ms. Greene and the Schlapps et al. calling to defund the police.

    David Frum on the Florida Man serving as Magistrate.

    Gotta whistle at the super-deluxe chutpzah of the New York Post describing the magistrate who issued the Trump search warrant as “linked to Jeffrey Epstein” because in his previous private legal career, the now-judge represented Epstein’s pilot and scheduler after they testified against Epstein in 2007.

    Meanwhile, if Epstein links are relevant to this Mar a Lago search, let’s remember that Trump and Epstein were friends, associates, and sex pests together for 20 years until they quarreled over a real-estate deal.

    Emphasis mine.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  31. Kevin, I’m not sure I agree with your theory that they did it this way to embarrass Trump.

    -No tip off to the media.
    -No imagery of agents taking boxes out of MAL
    -No statements to get a useful spin on the events.
    -Search was executed when Trump wasn’t on site.
    -No celebratory statements from the administration, either directly or through ‘sources familiar with the matter’

    Seems like this would have looked differently if that were their goal.

    I do know that they’re handling allegations that Peter Navarro has classified information through a lawsuit. So if this is about classified material that discrepancy exists.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  32. Dana, you should have put the Hillary stuff in the post. If for no other reason then to illustrate how similar she and MAGA are in moral character.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  33. Asset,

    you enjoy dead babies way too much. The law in Nebraska is abortion is restricted after 20 weeks. The law says abortions must be performed by a medical professional.

    This sick family that you’re defending induced an abortion on a 6 month old fetus using pills after researching it, planning it, then took the body that they killed, burned it and buried it. When questioned by police they lied, but they posted about it on Facebook.

    If you think 6 month old unborn children should be massacred, please continue to stand on that hill. It’ll be a lonely place with the rest of the Moloch disciples.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  34. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/10/2022 @ 12:13 am

    The super secret 007 level TS/SCI theory you keep floating is pure speculation that doesn’t pass the smell test. It’s more speculative than what you’re going on about with Kevin. The TS/SCI theory just makes the DOJ look like a different set of clowns. But sure, let’s sit tight, pretend that theory is true, and wait until the DOJ wants to feed everyone a different narrative.

    While you’re complaining about the “11” crowd it’s pretty clear you’re in the Kevin Bacon “all is well” crowd. You’ve got good company though. With people defending HRC and an attorney who left the prosecutors office to cash in on getting immunity deals for pedos.

    frosty (0c5006)

  35. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/10/2022 @ 4:48 am

    Trump being on the Epstein client list doesn’t pass the smell test either. If he was on it either we’d know about because it would have been leaked/released or they’d be blackmailing him with it.

    frosty (0c5006)

  36. Trump snitched himself out. And to enrage his base is the most innocent explanation. Now that the DOJ has authenticated the documents as genuine and classified, he can get a better price from our foreign enemies for the copies he’s got tucked away.

    Sigh. We’re talking about Trump, Kevin. He is not the kind of person to whom you say “Good morning, Mr. Trump. I am Dr. Feelgood. Won’t you please lie down on the couch and tell me what’s bothering you?” He’s the kind of person that you have two burly orderlies hit with a shot of Thorazine, put in a straitjacket, and carry to a padded cell.

    nk (d907c8)

  37. Trump being on the Epstein client list doesn’t pass the smell test either.

    Where did Frum say that Trump was on Epstein’s client list? He did say they were friends and business partners.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  38. NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/10/2022 @ 5:15 am

    This sick family that you’re defending induced an abortion on a 6 month old fetus using pills after researching it, planning it, then took the body that they killed, burned it and buried it. When questioned by police they lied, but they posted about it on Facebook.

    I don’t know if, besides burying it (with the help of a 22-year old man — the father?) they had burned it, and I don’t know how the police found out about the death (which they claimed in their first interview was an unexpected stillbirth) in the first place, but they didn’t post on Facebook about killing it and disposing of the body.

    They exchanged private messages (Facebook e-mail) which the police looked at after obtaining a search warrant.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  39. let’s remember that Trump and Epstein were friends, associates, and sex pests together for 20 years until they quarreled over a real-estate deal.

    No, they parted after Epstein tried to recruit an 18-year daughter of one of Trump\s paying guests at Mar-a-Lago to be a “massager” for him. A manager barred him from the premises and Trump backed up the manager.

    \They weren’t sex pests together. Epstein associated with some people who were interested in having sex with different young women in order to pretend he was like them, but he wasn’t. He was more into younger women with immature breasts.

    We’re talking about before his first conviction — pre-2008.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  40. I’m surprised–but not surprised–by the histrionics over this. It seems that a more adult reaction would be to wait and see. If it’s indeed overreach, that will become clear soon enough. But if there is in fact probable cause and something turns up, we’ll know about that too. Just wait and see, for cripes sake!

    Roger (17a3ee)

  41. Where did Frum say that Trump was on Epstein’s client list? He did say they were friends and business partners.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/10/2022 @ 6:48 am

    He didn’t explicitly say that for obvious reasons. He said

    friends, associates, and sex pests together for 20 years

    Which is meant to imply it in such a way that someone can weasel that wording around as needed. I noticed you left that part out of your rephrasing.

    So, sure, tell us you think “sex pests together” is the same as friends and business partners.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  42. @41 This seems to be the go to response for those who’ve realized how bad this looks and want to contain the blowback.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  43. The taint of sh*tbird, career Fed prosecutors can’t mask the stench of desperation.

    Colonel Haiku (574f86)

  44. He didn’t explicitly say that for obvious reasons.

    Indeed. “Client list” is your word, not Frum’s. Thank you for clearing that up.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  45. “You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”
    –Donald J. Trump, 9/28/2016

    Trump says he invoked his right to avoid self-incrimination, rather than answer questions, “because the current Administration and many prosecutors in this Country have lost all moral and ethical bounds of decency.”

    8/10/2022

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  46. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/10/2022 @ 6:48 am

    By the way, you might want to do some research on this judge’s Epstein client list. I’ll give you some help. Start with Sarah Kellen. She got some sort of deal on the first round in FL but I can’t tell that she has immunity and I can’t tell that she’s testified or helped the prosecution in any way. In fact, it looks like she might still face charges for being the next in line after Epstein and Maxwell running the trafficking operation. If that’s true Frum has issues with his facts. Especially that part you emphasized.

    Drum gave that whatabout the old college try though. Maybe a C for effort?

    frosty (6fce2e)

  47. No, they parted after Epstein tried to recruit an 18-year daughter of one of Trump\s paying guests at Mar-a-Lago to be a “massager” for him. A manager barred him from the premises and Trump backed up the manager.

    Unlikely, Sammy, but I note that you’re always there, going to bat for the scummy little scammer. Why is that?

    While frosty used a word like “client list”, from where he got it I don’t know, but Trump was in Epstein’s “little black book”.

    When Jeffrey Epstein’s little black book of phone numbers appeared in a court file a few years ago, it contained 14 numbers for Trump; his wife, Melania; and others in Trump’s inner circle.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  48. By the way, you might want to do some research on this judge’s Epstein client list.

    Pass. “Client list” seems to be your thing, frosty.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  49. @45 We’re so early in the thread and you’re already floating a whatabout and trying to back out of a comment with the “didn’t literally say that” routine?

    Are you claiming that you weren’t trying to deflect from this judge by trying to link Trump to Epstein? You’re just quoting people and letting people draw their own conclusions?

    frosty (6fce2e)

  50. Trumps lawyer is accusing the FBI of planting evidence. They’re also making a big deal about not being able to observe the search (which I think is normal).

    Zero evidence presented and they’re claiming they didn’t get a copy of the warrant. Does anyone know if providing a copy of the warrant is optional?

    Trump’s supporters like conspiracy theories and aren’t moved by facts so this has a lot of runway. Also helps keep passions up when reporting was turning this towards a story about recovering classified documents he shouldn’t have had. Which is more/less outrageous depending on a lot of details.

    Interesting developments.

    Time123 (1028ee)

  51. Meanwhile, Trump is taking the 5th up in New York in responding to the DA up there:

    “I once asked, ‘If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?'” Trump said in a statement. “Now I know the answer to that question. When your family, your company, and all the people in your orbit have become the targets of an unfounded, politically motivated Witch Hunt supported by lawyers, prosecutors, and the Fake News Media, you have no choice. Accordingly, under the advice of my counsel and for all of the above reasons, I declined to answer the questions under the rights and privileges afforded to every citizen under the United States Constitution.”

    The FBI had to know that Trump would be absent from Mar-A-Lago in order to deal with this.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  52. @49 Ah. So, you’re starting to suspect that Frum piece is propaganda and you don’t want to dig into it? Or you already knew?

    BTW, Time might want to have a word with you about pretending you don’t understand things like client list. If more people start doing it too often it looks more gimmicky than it already is.

    It seems unlikely that you don’t know what client list means in this context or that google doesn’t work for you. But if that’s the option you want to pick good luck with it.

    Good job doubling down on the whatabout. We cross posted and you answered my question.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  53. The fbi had to be looking for the whistleblower list – so they could ruin more lives.

    mg (8cbc69)

  54. “Now Dark Brandon is pretending the White House didn’t know about this raid.

    He is throwing Garland to the wolves.

    And the economy continues to completely implode. Every single metric the economy is measured by is exploding. Productivity is down. Prices are up. Money Supply is up. Money Velocity is down. Work Force participation is down.

    The only people who will admit to being democrats after all of this are really stupid people.

    Everyone else would be too embarrassed.”

    —- Achilles

    Colonel Haiku (cc8203)

  55. @51

    Zero evidence presented

    What’s the difference between that and anonymous sources or sources close to X? Seems like this zero evidence thing is only a problem sometimes?

    Trump’s supporters like conspiracy theories

    You mean like the selling of 007 TS/SCI level material by Trump based on the idea that you’d need something really big to get a Trump appointed judge and a DOJ run by Rs to raid his compound?

    frosty (6fce2e)

  56. Trumps lawyer is accusing the FBI of planting evidence. They’re also making a big deal about not being able to observe the search (which I think is normal).

    Zero evidence presented and they’re claiming they didn’t get a copy of the warrant. Does anyone know if providing a copy of the warrant is optional?

    Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 41(f)(1)(C)

    (C) Receipt. The officer executing the warrant must give a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the property taken to the person from whom, or from whose premises, the property was taken or leave a copy of the warrant and receipt at the place where the officer took the property.

    If Trump’s lawyers don’t have it, it’s because Trump did not give it to them, and not because the FBI did not leave it. Like we don’t know Trump! Sheesh!

    nk (9b247f)

  57. @55 They’re caught between a rock and a hard place. Either admit they authorized this and explain why or pretend that type of thing could get authorized so far down the chain no one would know about it.

    They’re going with that second one thinking it makes them look more competent.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  58. I’m surprised–but not surprised–by the histrionics over this. It seems that a more adult reaction would be to wait and see.

    Patience is not a virtue on the Internet.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  59. “because the current Administration and many prosecutors in this Country have lost all moral and ethical bounds of decency.”

    The pot calling the kettle black.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  60. @60 doesn’t make the pot wrong

    frosty (6fce2e)

  61. Nk, thank you for providing that.

    Time123 (1028ee)

  62. We’re so early in the thread and you’re already floating a whatabout and trying to back out of a comment with the “didn’t literally say that” routine?

    Whatabout what? You made a false claim about what Frum said.

    Are you claiming that you weren’t trying to deflect from this judge by trying to link Trump to Epstein? You’re just quoting people and letting people draw their own conclusions?

    No and no. It seems like you’re the one here who’s drawing bizarre conclusions from basic quotes, which is a common thing for you.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  63. Not one person who does not sleep with a picture of Trump under his pillow will think less of Garland for this. Okay, maybe one. But lot more people will get one more reminder of the bullet America dodged on November 8, 2020.

    nk (9b247f)

  64. @43, A “go to” response huh? I could just as easily say that bouncing off the walls like a troupe of crazed gibbons is the “go to” response of Trump’s minions.

    Roger (17a3ee)

  65. Notice the artful wording from Trump’s lawyer, which allows Trumpers to claim that Trump doesn’t have the warrant/receipt and thus the FBI are the bad guys:

    “The warrant refers to the Presidential Records Act and possible violation of law over handling of classified information, according to Christina Bobb, a lawyer for the former president. The warrant hasn’t been made public.

    And why wouldn’t Trump make those docs public? Perhaps because he can get more mileage out of this by not doing so:

    “One adviser who spoke to Trump after the search said the former president sounded buoyed by the development, bragging about how many Republicans were supporting him publicly, and said Trump thought the search would help him politically in the end.”

    Dana (1225fc)

  66. @64 Interesting. The part of the Frum article you quoted is clearly a whatabout. It’s almost textbook. But you’re going to just pretend it isn’t?

    This is new for you. You must really want to rehabilitate that judge and get past the whole Trump appointed fiasco.

    The odd thing is these are simple little lies and half truths and misinformation that can easily be checked. Which you’ve said you don’t want to do.

    You couldn’t even quote your own comment correctly. Did you simply not see the “sex pests together” part or did you intentionally leave it out?

    frosty (6fce2e)

  67. Here’s a new development, and it explains the timing of the warrant. An informer traitor to Tribe Trump knew where the stolen documents keepsakes were hidden, and informed snitched to DOJ. Although frosty might call it “dark”, if any of those documents were codeword level, that’s a serious problem, storing such sensitive intel in the basement of a country club.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  68. @66 Yes. And yes, you could. It seems like whatabout is making a comeback today.

    Both can be true. It’s possible a lot of Trumpers are bouncing off the walls and that D/NeverTrump wants to deflect and contain the mess they’ve made.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  69. You must really want to rehabilitate that judge and get past the whole Trump appointed fiasco.

    Oy, and now you’re resorting to mindreading. So sad.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  70. Time123 (b64e57) — 8/10/2022 @ 5:14 am

    I agree with Time123. Even at this time, it matters.

    felipe (484255)

  71. From Paul Montague’s Newsweek link @8/10/2022 @ 9:37 am:

    Trump attorney Lindsey Halligan, who was present during the multi-hour search, says that the FBI targeted three rooms—a bedroom, an office and a storage room.

    nk (9b247f)

  72. Nietzsche described democracy as a throne resting on mud and those sitting on the throne often likewise mud. Leave out the throne and you have Trump and his supporters.

    nk (9b247f)

  73. @71

    Although frosty might call it “dark”

    There’s what, 11 minutes between those posts? I guess it’s hypocrisy for breakfast? Sad indeed.

    The irony is I wasn’t the one calling anything dark. That was your comment and you whined about that being mocked.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  74. “Dark” was your word, frosty, not mine. Why do you keep cramming your words down others’ throats?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  75. If Trump’s lawyers don’t have it, it’s because Trump did not give it to them, and not because the FBI did not leave it. Like we don’t know Trump! Sheesh!

    So, you argue that because the rules say they must present the warrant to the property owner that they must have done that. For all you know they gave it to the janitor.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  76. If the warrant listed the items to be seized, and some of these items are “so sensitive that merely naming them is a problem”, then perhaps the warrant is itself classified. Maybe it’s just redacted.

    What I would like to see in the warrant is the crime alleged. This would tell us if the warrant is merely pretextual, wither as a means of collecting up the documents, or for a fishing expedition. An allegation of “mishandling” — a crime that is not prosecuted against senior officials without added reasons — would indicate it’s pretextual.

    Part of the problem I have is that Trump ought to be tried for his actions on Jan 6th, and playing fast and loose with searches not only gives Trump some victim-status, but could taint any later case against him.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  77. Another part of my difficulty with this search isn’t about Trump, but about how ex-Presidents are treated by their opposition-party successors. Part of the “peaceful transfer of power” thing is that the new guy doesn’t gin up cases against the old guy. Even though Trump didn’t play by the rules, the rules are still there and should not be shredded further.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  78. @57

    Trumps lawyer is accusing the FBI of planting evidence. They’re also making a big deal about not being able to observe the search (which I think is normal).

    Zero evidence presented and they’re claiming they didn’t get a copy of the warrant. Does anyone know if providing a copy of the warrant is optional?

    Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 41(f)(1)(C)

    (C) Receipt. The officer executing the warrant must give a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the property taken to the person from whom, or from whose premises, the property was taken or leave a copy of the warrant and receipt at the place where the officer took the property.

    If Trump’s lawyers don’t have it, it’s because Trump did not give it to them, and not because the FBI did not leave it. Like we don’t know Trump! Sheesh!

    nk (9b247f) — 8/10/2022 @ 8:50 am

    Yeah, there’s seems to be a lot of misdirection here.

    Trump’s attorneys at MAL said that were “shown” the warrant.

    Its not clear that they have a copy.

    Also, to those sitting in the back: NO, if Trump had the warrant he doesn’t have to make it public. He has the presumption of innocence and it’s up to the Government to prove that he’s not.

    whembly (b770f8)

  79. @79 Exactly, hence why I hope there’s a “there, there” in this regards.

    Otherwise, they just cemented Trump as a frontrunning and J6 is going to be obstinately ignored.

    whembly (b770f8)

  80. “because the current Administration and many prosecutors in this Country have lost all moral and ethical bounds of decency.”

    If we’re talking about the Grant administration, perhaps. But this ship ran aground some time ago.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  81. if any of those documents were codeword level, that’s a serious problem, storing such sensitive intel in the basement of a country club.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/10/2022 @ 9:37 am

    Hopefully “recently dug grave in the corner of a different country club’s golf course” isn’t location B…that will set people OFF!

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  82. Not one person who does not sleep with a picture of Trump under his pillow will think less of Garland for this. Okay, maybe one. But lot more people will get one more reminder of the bullet America dodged on November 8, 2020.

    Well, not thinking much of Garland from the get-go, you may be right. But we’ve been playing Russian roulette with semi-autos since 2016 at least. I do not view Biden as a “bullet dodged”, but perhaps a smaller caliber.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  83. if any of those documents were codeword level, that’s a serious problem, storing such sensitive intel in the basement of a country club.

    Or on an insecure server in the bathroom.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  84. Well, we can believe that the FBI followed the rules while being watched by a Secret Service detachment, the Palm Beach police, and Trump’s own lawyer on the scene. Or we can believe that Trump and his lawyers are truthful and forthcoming while ginning up outrage and soliciting donations. It’s a hard decision. For someone born yesterday.

    nk (5476af)

  85. “Dark” was your word, frosty, not mine. Why do you keep cramming your words down others’ throats?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/10/2022 @ 9:59 am

    No, and I gave you the link to your comment. If it’s my word show me where I used it. I believe every time is in reference to your comment.

    Why are you lying about something that happened yesterday and is easy to verify?

    frosty (6fce2e)

  86. Now on to see how much of “I didn’t know they were here for the raid” from DeSantis is truth.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  87. And actually Paul, even plain old TS is a problem, since TS means that “disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security.”

    But process matters. And the process here was fairly ugly. It even looks like they were terrified of this material remaining in Trump’s hands, either because they thought he might reveal it to 3rd parties, and/or because it would be politically harmful to the current regime.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  88. nk,

    what exactly is the procedure for a warrant listing items to be seized whose descriptions are top secret?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  89. @86 This would be the same SS who deleted texts? And the same FBI with the FISA warrants? And now we’ve got TS/SCI level info and the palm beach police are poking around on the scene?

    frosty (6fce2e)

  90. But I have to wonder why, if Trump has this warrant, and if it isn’t stamped TOP SECRET itself, why he doesn’t release it. Not doing so enhances the government’s position.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  91. And now we’ve got TS/SCI level info and the palm beach police are poking around on the scene?

    If by that you mean “are out in the parking lot”, then yeah.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  92. @29. Lizzy packed in 20-30 morons at her rally yesterday, 10-15 more than dementia joe.
    Progress.

    Family.

    DCSCA (a21209)

  93. what exactly is the procedure for a warrant listing items to be seized whose descriptions are top secret?

    I don’t know. The Fourth Amendment says “… and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Would “items labeled top secret” be adequate? Would a Trump-minded lawyer, in a motion to suppress, argue that the item was not “labeled top secret” it was “stamped TOP SECRET” with all caps and therefore the office had to leave it lay?

    nk (5476af)

  94. Kevin @ 92,

    See my comment at 67.

    And why wouldn’t Trump make those docs public? Perhaps because he can get more mileage out of this by not doing so:

    “One adviser who spoke to Trump after the search said the former president sounded buoyed by the development, bragging about how many Republicans were supporting him publicly, and said Trump thought the search would help him politically in the end.”

    Maintaining an air of mystery and doubt surrounding the warrant/receipt works to his benefit with MAGA Rs. He’s no fool when it comes to playing the victim and watching his supporters circle the wagon.

    Dana (1225fc)

  95. @93 We’ll that’s a question for nk since he included them as one of the groups watching the FBI follow the rules. If they’re out in the parking lot it doesn’t seem like they could be watching a lot of rule following.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  96. No, and I gave you the link to your comment.

    Thank you for the link. “Darker game” are your words and your interpretation, not mine. I do weary of your rabbit holes.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  97. And now we’ve got TS/SCI level info and the palm beach police are poking around on the scene?
    ….
    @93 We’ll that’s a question for nk since he included them as one of the groups watching the FBI follow the rules. If they’re out in the parking lot it doesn’t seem like they could be watching a lot of rule following.

    And what color are those squirrels? A matched pair? Both orange? The question was whether the FBI obeyed FRCMP 41 and left a copy of the warrant and a receipt of the property taken when they left. You know. When the search was over? And everything was packed? And they said: “We’re finished. Thank you for your cooperation.”

    nk (5476af)

  98. nk, I know what the 4th says. I just wonder what the Patriot Act says since it allows a lot of things wrt National Security that the Founders didn’t contemplate.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  99. The most important thing in the warrant is what crime was alleged. If it is a crime unlikely to be prosecuted, or even presented to a grand jury, does that make it’s use in conforming to the 4th Amendment merely pretext? Or will they charge Trump with that crime if the evidence (as it must) corroborates the charge?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  100. Was this under The Patriot Act? I thought it was under the 1978 Presidential Records Act.

    nk (5476af)

  101. Whembly, I agree that the burden is on the government to prove he broke the law and that Trump is under no obligation to release it. The government is bared from doing so and I’d like to see it so I’m asking for it.

    It would take a lot of the supposition out of the situation. But I see that leaks have started so maybe we’ll learn more.

    Also, his people aren’t saying “He’s innocent” they’re saying “The FBI is planting evidence.” That’s a very different claim. It’s an affirmative claim and those require evidence.

    Finally, I don’t see any evidence that prior to this the GOP as a group cared about Jan 6. Supporting Trump’s lies about the stolen election and and minimizing what happened on Jan 6 seems to be a pre-req to win a GOP primary. Whether it’s obstinately ignored or passively ignored it’s not something the GOP primary voters care about.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  102. Lastly, does the Biden Administration think they can use the diqsualification provisions in the mishandling law to keep Trump from running again, even though its application to offices with constitutional qualifications has been pretty well debunked?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  103. The warrant hasn’t been made public.”

    +But his lawyer, Christina Bobb did describe it to the Wall Street Journal, or in a few other places, like “Real America’s Voice” as referencing the Presidential Records Act and possible violations of law over the handling of classified information. I guess Trump doesn’t want the accusations spread out, and/or maybe he can make the search sound worse and more intrusive than it was..

    There are two parts to a search warrant. One is the warrant itself, which describes the places to be searched and the things they are looking for. (if they stumble across something else, they have to take a second warrant out to take it away.) This is given to the person whose effects are searched.

    The other part is the affidavit behind it, which contains detailed, if limited, information about the investigation. This is normally kept sealed. If someone is indicted based on the search, it is given to the defendant or made public in a court record. It can also be released early. If no charges are brought, it is not automatically released but can be obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  104. Also, his people aren’t saying “He’s innocent” they’re saying “The FBI is planting evidence.” That’s a very different claim. It’s an affirmative claim and those require evidence.

    Planting evidence for WHAT? Mishandling (and see my last)? 50 kilos of heroin? Epstein’s kiddie porn collection?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  105. You know, I seriously considered that Ghislaine Maxwell had struck a deal with the feds and snitched Trump out.

    Epstein and Maxwell were social and paid guests at Mar-a-Lago, comrade judge-slanderers. Like you didn’t know that!

    nk (5476af)

  106. This is like the Big Lie schtick. The election isn’t presumed “stolen” because Trump said so, he needs to back up his claim, with actual evidence.
    Likewise, the accusation that the FBI “made up” or “planted” evidence of classified information in the MAL basement; the onus is on the accuser to prove it.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  107. To be clear, I don’t think the FBI planted evidence. Not only would an FBI that did that to a former President be disbanded, but it’s hardly necessary with Donald Trump.

    What I wonder about is what they found that Trump wants to claim was planted. Even if it’s the real Roswell autopsy photos, it’s not likely to be prosecuted.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  108. Dana, you’re right. As soon as this is nailed down trump starts losing support, unless the facts are working what they’re claiming, which isn’t consistent with his past practices.

    Time123 (1028ee)

  109. Trump: “What idiot came up with this law about classified documents!!”
    Soon-to-fired aide: “That idiot would be you, sir.”

    Oddly enough, one of the multiple laws covering the mishandling of government information is one that Trump himself amended during his tenure in the Oval Office, as pointed out by Tennessee state Sen. Jeff Yarbro (D) on Twitter.

    Tucked into a bill Trump signed into law in January 2018 was a provision increasing the punishment for knowingly removing classified materials with the intent to retain them at an “unauthorized location.”

    Previously, someone found guilty of this crime could face up to one year in prison. When former CIA Director David Petraeus was charged in 2015 with mishandling classified data, he pleaded guilty under this statute to avoid a felony charge, as Politico pointed out. A similar situation unfolded a decade earlier, when former national security adviser Samuel Berger pleaded guilty to removing terrorism-related materials from the National Archives in 2005.

    Now, a person convicted of violating this law can face up to five years in prison ― making it a felony-level offense to mishandle classified documents under 18 U.S.C. 1924.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  110. @112 that’s funny. So the answer to “why is Trump being treated differently” might be “because he changed the law to make it a more serious crime”. 😂

    Time123 (1028ee)

  111. History of the investigation mostly relying on the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal:

    In January, 2022, after negotiating with Trump’s lawyers for about a year, the National Archives was given 15 boxes of material from Mar-a-Lago. When they looked at them, they determined that some of it could be deemed classified (which is true all the time of anything that deals with foreign policy or military defense, or anti-terrorism etc., even if nobody marked it that way.) They so notified DoJ.

    And on Friday, February 18 “the agency” (so called by the NYT) said publicly that it found documents that contained “classified national security information.”

    On February 24, Representative Carolyn Maloney. chairwoman of the House Committee on Oversight and Reform Committee asked the National Archives for a detailed accounting of what was in the boxes, including what Trump had, at one time, or another, sought to shred or destroy. (Trump had, at times, torn up papers he saw that he was finished with, but the Presidential Records Act requires anything touched by a president to be preserved.)

    I think they got it (because how else would some media organizations have seen it?) except for a detailed explanation of what was classified.

    In the meantime, DoJ followed up on the referral, and in April instructed the National Archives not to co-operate any further with the committee, evidently because this was now an active criminal investigation. In May, the Justice Department subpoenaed the National Archives for the classified documents and also requested interviews with several White House officials about the days before Trump left the White House, but this may have concerned a different investigation.

    Mar-a-Lago was visited by some FBI agents, including one involved in counter-intelligence, probably on Friday June 3. (at first it was reported “in the spring” and later as in June, and eventually it could be deduced this was June 3.)

    There were two lawyers there for Trump. Trump himself also stepped in for some inconsequential talk. At that time they showed the FBI the place in the basement where they said they had put, or collected, all the stuff taken from the White House. On June 8, the FBI wrote a letter saying they should keep the room locked, and they put a lock on the room.

    On Monday, August 8, approximately 30 FBI agents came to the Mar-a-Lago residence. The Secret service still guards this place, even when the ex-president is not there, and they first met with the Secret Service and were supervised or watched by the Secret Service to make sure they didn’t do anything dangerous or leave any dangerous conditions behind. Trump’s lawyers arrived about an hour after it started but were not allowed in (in some states things work differently and they can photograph what’s going on to establish whether anything is being damaged, in which case the government has to pay for it. Alan Dershowitz says Trump’s lawyers should rushed into a court.)

    They may have broken a safe – it’s not clear from what Trump said, because maybe they were given the combination.

    They took out with them, at the end of the day, either 10 or 12 more boxes of material. Some of this may have been as trivial as newspaper clippings on which Trump wrote something, or underlined something, while president. I mean it’s like that.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  112. This is apparently separate from two other investigations of Trump that the Department of Justice seems to be conducting:

    One is into the January 6 riot, whether Trump intentionally had anything to do with it – or who did?

    The other concerns the efforts to reject or replace Electors, including appeals to state level officials, and the pressure on Vice president Mike Pence to unilaterally reject electors, which they may be attempting to criminalize as a form of fraud or obstruction of a federal government proceeding or maybe extortion. But they need to show intent to defraud by Trump.

    They are not putting Trump’s claims of there being a stolen election, or lawsuits in court under criminal investigation, so they have that much restraint.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  113. Time123 (1028ee) — 8/10/2022 @ 12:00 pm

    So the answer to “why is Trump being treated differently” might be “because he changed the law to make it a more serious crime”. 😂

    That’s what Bill Clinton did also. He signed a bill that required anyone sued for sexual harassment to answer questions about other sexual relationships.

    The judge deemed it relevant to the Paula Jones lawsuit.’

    And after this was all over she reversed herself on that question/

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  114. Rand Paul Suggests FBI May Have Planted Evidence

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) suggested on Fox & Friends that the FBI may have planted evidence in boxes they seized from Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago

    https://politicalwire.com/2022/08/10/rand-paul-suggests-fbi-may-have-planted-evidence/

    Exclusive: An Informer Told the FBI What Docs Trump Was Hiding, and Where

    ‘The raid on Mar-a-Lago was based largely on information from an FBI confidential human source, one who was able to identify what classified documents former President Trump was still hiding and even the location of those documents, two senior government officials told Newsweek. The officials, who have direct knowledge of the FBI’s deliberations and were granted anonymity in order to discuss sensitive matters, said the raid of Donald Trump’s Florida residence was deliberately timed to occur when the former president was away.’ -https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-informer-told-fbi-what-docs-trump-was-hiding-where-1732283

    Thirty agents raid; nine hours rummaging through drawers- including Melania’s; zero answers. Deep State Uber Alles!

    DCSCA (26322a)

  115. Trump is smart to keep his yap shut, other than telling that AGoNY where she can stick it.

    Suggestion: up her two axe handles wide arse.

    Colonel Haiku (5e19ca)

  116. “Never confuse education with intelligence, you can have a PhD and still be an idiot.” – Richard Feynman

    Lots of highly educated idiots walking around who thought Biden would be better for the US than Trump for all his flaws and voted accordingly.

    Horatio (a5ff13)

  117. @103

    Whembly, I agree that the burden is on the government to prove he broke the law and that Trump is under no obligation to release it. The government is bared from doing so and I’d like to see it so I’m asking for it.

    It would take a lot of the supposition out of the situation. But I see that leaks have started so maybe we’ll learn more.

    I’m responding to the inane comments that Trump must publish the warrants to “prove” his innocence.

    These last few years, particularly during the Trump era, there have been serious public movements where folks were assumed guilty and had to prove their innocence. (ie not only Trump, but Kavanaugh, Ted Stevens, Rick Perry, etc).

    These sorts of things only seem to be ratcheted in one direction.

    Don’t be surprised when a populist righty starts mimicking the left’s abuses of power.

    Also, his people aren’t saying “He’s innocent” they’re saying “The FBI is planting evidence.” That’s a very different claim. It’s an affirmative claim and those require evidence.

    Sure. But its not like this fear was unfounded.

    Keep in mind, this FBI lied, lied so many times for apparent partisan reasons, and you seemingly are willing to give them a pass for all the past bad behaviors – got news for you buddy, that’s an FBI/DOJ problem, not a Donald J Trump problem.

    Finally, I don’t see any evidence that prior to this the GOP as a group cared about Jan 6. Supporting Trump’s lies about the stolen election and and minimizing what happened on Jan 6 seems to be a pre-req to win a GOP primary. Whether it’s obstinately ignored or passively ignored it’s not something the GOP primary voters care about.

    Time123 (b64e57) — 8/10/2022 @ 11:36 am

    There’s some truth to that. But, if you had ever hoped to convince GOP voters to care, at all, that’s all dead now.

    Like me: I don’t give a crap about J6 anymore. The people who rioted are getting the books thrown at them. Let justice take it’s course.

    But you, and others continually argue that Trump et el is the worst thing ever, while ignoring the shattering norms perpetuated by Democrats TODAY, I’m sorry, you’ll won’t get very far with me.

    whembly (b770f8)

  118. 105. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 11:36 am

    Lastly, does the Biden Administration think they can use the diqsualification provisions in the mishandling law to keep Trump from running again, even though its application to offices with constitutional qualifications has been pretty well debunked?

    It’s not the Biden Administration, but Democratic election lawyer Marc Elias. The truth is, to disqualify someone would require impeachment and conviction, and the imposition of this disqualification as a punishment after conviction, but it requires a 2/3 vote in the Senate to convict, even if the disqualification would then only require a simple majority of the Senate And to send this to Senate would require only a majority of the House of Representatives.)

    Later, Marc Elias came up with another idea: Maybe violating that law could not disqualify someone from being elected president, but a state could use it to disqualify his name from the ballot.

    Not automatically under any existing state law, (although I guess he would ready to go into state court to argue so) but they actually could pass a law saying that.

    (I think they could also pass a law requiring candidates for president to, for instance, disclose their federal income tax returns in order to appear on the ballot in November. The constitution says that electors are chosen by any method the state legislature shall direct. They could even limit the candidates to persons who are members of the Democratic Party even. But let’s say they try something which mostly, legally, or practically, just excludes Trump.)

    Which gets you into real complications. The Republicans could substitute a different name, and then can Electors vote for someone else other than whom they were pledged to? The Supreme Court has strengthened state control of Elector’s votes since the 2016 election, but this still depends upon the state.

    Or the election might be thrown into the House of Representatives. With maybe the Trump substitute being chosen president, if the cards fall right..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  119. Dumber than a bag of Chicago lawyers, Horatio.

    Colonel Haiku (5e19ca)

  120. Best comment so far: #41.

    And, in suport of Dana’s argument: I have already seen fund-raising ads for the loser — and I haven’t spent much time browsing, because the power was out here this morning, for more than two hours.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  121. 106. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 11:40 am

    Planting evidence for WHAT?

    I suppose they could e accused of taking something from the National Archives or some other repository, maybe at the Defense Department or the CIA or the Department of Energy and claiming they retrieved it from Trump. But this is too improbable to believe – but then so was massive election fraud with no witnesses.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  122. Thank you for the link. “Darker game” are your words and your interpretation, not mine. I do weary of your rabbit holes.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/10/2022 @ 11:17 am

    You’re weary? That’s all you had to say then. You get to say all sorts of things that may be loosely connected with reality if you’re just too weary to be bothered with it all.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  123. Whembly, that’s a pretty strong position based on how little we know now.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  124. MOST IDIOTIC THINGS THE FBI HAS EVER DONE

    Read More: https://www.grunge.com/126475/most-idiotic-things-the-fbi-has-ever-done/?utm_campaign=clip

    DCSCA (26322a)

  125. “Dress for success. Suggest the blue chiffon with pumps. ” – J. Edgar Hoover

    DCSCA (26322a)

  126. @127

    Whembly, that’s a pretty strong position based on how little we know now.

    Time123 (b64e57) — 8/10/2022 @ 12:40 pm

    Maybe so… and I might end up eating crow.

    But, I’m telling you, every day it goes by that the FBI/DOJ don’t justify this raid is extremely damaging to the integrity of those institutions.

    whembly (b770f8)

  127. @127 Genies are hard to get back in bottles. The left and now D/NeverTrump, play a game where they think if they win great and if they lose we just reset and play again. It’s like an indefinite 2 out of 3 that turns into 3 out of 5, etc.

    The story now is shifting to this being about relatively inconsequential records. Not secret spy stuff or TS/SCI items but stuff that’s classified primarily because the government classifies everything. Of course that story could change again.

    And we know quite a bit. It’s not answers to your questions but Whembly isn’t wrong and he’s not the only one that will have that reaction.

    frosty (6fce2e)

  128. Whembly, from what I understand they’re prohibited from announcing what they were looking for or why until they file an indictment. (See NK’s link)

    Time123 (1028ee)

  129. Frosty; I don’t see any point in engaging with you on this. You might as well go back to trolling Paul.

    Time123 (1028ee)

  130. But, I’m telling you, every day it goes by that the FBI/DOJ don’t justify this raid is extremely damaging to the integrity of those institutions.

    Damage done.

    Have they found Hoffa yet?

    Fentanyl and illegals are pouring into the country, the PRC is stealing intellectual property, billions down a rathole in Ukraine with no accounting, Hunter Biden is free when if anybody else had done any of the crap on his laptop they’d be in the pokie — and the DOJ has the FBI getting into Meliana’s drawers… for nine hours.

    DCSCA (26322a)

  131. Lastly, does the Biden Administration think they can use the diqsualification provisions in the mishandling law to keep Trump from running again, even though its application to offices with constitutional qualifications has been pretty well debunked?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 11:36 am

    I don’t know what the Biden Administration thinks (it wouldn’t be their call anyway), but it is not likely, if not impossible he can be disqualified based on 18 USC 2071, even if he is convicted.

    FWIW, I lean toward the theory the FBI was recovering TS/SCI material. Any mention of what would be redacted from the warrant.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  132. And I doubt he will be indicted for anything related to the search.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  133. Paul Montagu @48: That article is from 2019, but in 2020 a book came out giving the 180year old paying guest story:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/trump-banned-jeffrey-epstein-from-mar-a-lago-for-hitting-on-girl.html

    President Donald Trump banned wealthy investor Jeffrey Epstein from his exclusive Mar-a-Lago club for hitting on the teenage daughter of another member, according to a new book entitled “The Grifter’s Club.”

    The late Epstein’s banishment by Trump from the Palm Beach, Florida, club appears to have occurred months before Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 to state criminal charges in Florida, which included paying for sexual services from a 14-year-old girl.

    But it also seems to have happened more than two years after a state grand jury charged Epstein with soliciting prostitution.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/510604-book-claims-trump-barred-epstein-from-mar-a-lago-after-financier-hit

    Trump has previously referenced a falling out with Epstein, who was facing sex trafficking charges before he killed himself in prison last year. The president had said last year that he was “not a fan” of Epstein and “threw him out” of Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s longtime resort that now doubles as his official residence. The president also said they hadn’t spoken in 15 years.

    One club member recounted that Trump “kicked Epstein out after Epstein harassed the daughter of a member. The way this person described it, such an act could irreparably harm the Trump brand, leaving Donald no choice but to remove Epstein,” Sarah Blaskey, an investigative reporter for the Herald and one of the co-authors of the book, told the newspaper. “The Trump Organization did not respond to our requests for comment on this or other matters.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  134. Rip Murdock @135: I don’t think “any mention” of TS/SCI material would be redacted from the affidavit connected to the warrant when it’s made public – just any description of what it was, since that might be the core of the secret.

    And it wouldn’t have to be all that important for it to be redacted.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  135. The super secret 007 level TS/SCI theory you keep floating is pure speculation that doesn’t pass the smell test. It’s more speculative than what you’re going on about with Kevin. The TS/SCI theory just makes the DOJ look like a different set of clowns.

    frosty (0c5006) — 8/10/2022 @ 5:31 am

    I’m not saying the search was for TS/SCI documents. I’m saying you don’t know that it wasn’t. It’s one of a universe of variables you aren’t and can’t take into account because you want to jump to conclusions before seeing any of the evidence.

    But sure, let’s sit tight, pretend that theory is true, and wait until the DOJ wants to feed everyone a different narrative. While you’re complaining about the “11” crowd it’s pretty clear you’re in the Kevin Bacon “all is well” crowd.

    I’m not saying all is well. I’m saying I don’t have the evidence yet that’s required to draw meaningful conclusions, and neither do you. I stand by that, and you haven’t responded to it.

    You’ve got good company though. With people defending HRC and an attorney who left the prosecutors office to cash in on getting immunity deals for pedos.

    I far prefer the company of people who base their conclusions on evidence to people who jump to conclusions based only on bias confirmation. I do admit though that I can’t argue with the ineluctable logic of “pedos.” You got me.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  136. @135.

    Can Donald Trump run for president if charged and convicted of removing official records?

    The FBI search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate raises questions about whether a statute that bans the removal of official records could bar Trump from running for president in 2024.

    Trump said in a statement Aug. 8 that Mar-a-Lago was “currently under siege, raided, and occupied by a large group of FBI agents.”

    “They even broke into my safe!” Trump said.

    Without access to the search warrant or other investigative documents, there is not a lot that we know about the search. Spokespersons for the FBI and Justice Department told PolitiFact they had no comment.

    Multiple news reports connected the investigation to official documents brought from the White House to Mar-a-Lago. The National Archives confirmed in February that it had communicated with Trump representatives in 2021, which resulted in the transfer of 15 boxes in January, including classified national security materials. The National Archives alerted the Justice Department.

    In an interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity, the former president’s son Eric Trump said “the purpose of the raid, from what they said, was that the National Archives wanted to corroborate whether or not Donald Trump had any documents in his possession,” adding “and my father worked so collaboratively with them for months.”

    Federal statute says it is a crime to willfully and intentionally remove official records and that such a crime would disqualify the defendant from “holding any office under the United States.” But some legal scholars say that statute can’t be used to bar Trump from a 2024 presidential bid. The Constitution’s list of criteria to run for president mentions only age, citizenship and residency — there is no mention of criminal charges or convictions.

    Whether Trump is ultimately charged by prosecutors is a matter of speculation. Trump is the subject of multiple investigations, including for his efforts to remain in office despite losing in 2020, and his role in the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

    The Constitution doesn’t bar criminals from running for president

    Social media users noted that the FBI executed the search warrant at Mar-a-Lago on Aug. 8, the same day that President Richard Nixon announced his resignation in 1974. Nixon was the inspiration for the Presidential Records Act of 1978, which requires presidential records to be stored with the National Archives for safekeeping.

    “The law overturned the long-running tradition of private ownership that dated to the beginning of the Republic by declaring that after Jan. 20, 1981, the records of all presidents would be the property of the American people,” Bruce Montgomery, a professor at the University of Colorado, Boulder, previously told PolitiFact.

    Federal statute 18 U.S. Code 2071 had long banned the removal, concealment or destruction of presidential records. It says “willfully and unlawfully” removing such records can result in a penalty of up to three years in prison and that the defendant “shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.”

    Marc Elias, a lawyer who litigates election law cases on behalf of Democrats, highlighted that line about disqualification and tweeted: “The media is missing the really, really big reason why the raid today is a potential blockbuster in American politics.”

    But in a subsequent tweet, Elias wrote that there would undoubtedly be a “constitutional challenge to the application of this law to a president. One can speculate how it would turn out, but it is unprecedented and would be fully litigated.”

    Rick Hasen, an election law expert at the University of California, Los Angeles, said he doesn’t see a conviction for violating 18 U.S. Code 2071 preventing Trump from running for office.

    “That statute cannot trump the Constitution, which sets the exclusive qualifications for President,” Hasen wrote on his election law blog. “So this is not a path to making Trump legally ineligible to run for office.”

    The U.S. Constitution upholds the principle that voters decide who shall represent them. The Constitution says only natural born citizens or U.S. citizens who are at least 35 years old and have been a resident of the U.S. for 14 years can run for president.

    Previous Supreme Court rulings hold that a state cannot prohibit indicted or convicted felons from running for federal office, and Congress cannot add qualifications to the office of president, said Derek Muller, a law professor at the University of Iowa.

    Someone could use the records statute to attempt to challenge Trump’s potential run for office, and the courts would then rule on the constitutionality of his bid, said Georgetown law professor Victoria Nourse.

    Convicted felons have run for president and lost. Lyndon LaRouche was convicted in 1988 of tax and mail fraud conspiracy and ran for president multiple times between 1976 and 2004. Eugene Debs, convicted of violating the Espionage Act of 1917 for an anti-war speech, was in a federal prison when he ran for president as a socialist in 1920. Debs’ supporters handed out campaign buttons for “Prisoner 9653.”

    While it’s legally possible to run for office behind bars, it would pose some political challenges in terms of limiting a candidate’s ability to fundraise or hold rallies.

    Proving a case under the records law involves specific criteria

    The Justice Department lays out multiple criteria to prove a case under the records law, including that the “defendant must act intentionally with knowledge that he is violating the law.” A previous case suggests the defendant must know that the documents are public records.

    Those elements “may not be that hard to prove since presidents are briefed on the importance of presidential records and their preservation, not to mention their security implications,” Nourse said.

    Douglas Cox, a City University of New York law professor, said prosecutors would not necessarily have to show that Trump physically removed the records. If Trump’s aides removed records with him or in his direction, Trump could be responsible for violating the law.

    “But of course searches of his personal office and safe could very well provide specific evidence of Donald Trump’s intent and personal involvement in removal and/or subsequent concealment,” Cox said.

    There are other ways that Trump could be disqualified from running, Hasen wrote.

    Congress could act to bar Trump from running again under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which says that public officials cannot serve in any future federal, state, or military office if they engaged in “insurrection or rebellion.” The Senate hasn’t pursued that route. It could have banned Trump from running again during impeachment proceedings and did not. It’s unknown how the committee investigating Trump’s actions around the Jan. 6 attack may address the prospect of Trump’s candidacy.

    The timing of any potential charges against Trump is unclear, but federal prosecutors sometimes avoid pursuing charges close to an election to avoid accusations that their actions were intended to help or harm a candidate or party. That’s why it was surprising when FBI director James Comey during the final days of the 2016 campaign apprised lawmakers of new emails potentially relevant to the investigation of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

    But prosecutions close to Election Day are not unheard of: Officials announced the indictment against Caspar Weinberger, the former defense secretary under President Ronald Reagan, for misleading Congress in June 1992, but a judge threw out the indictment. The independent counsel refiled an indictment on other charges on Oct. 30, just four days before the 1992 election, when Reagan’s vice president, George H.W. Bush was running for a second term in the White House.

    Attorney General Merrick Garland wrote in a May memo about “election year sensitivities” that no investigation or prosecution should take place “for the purpose of affecting any election.” The memo does not expressly ban the filing of charges but says prosecutors should consult public integrity guidelines.

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/09/can-donald-trump-run-president-if-convicted-removi/

    This play was pure political harassment by the Royalists. And incredibly stupid; it’ll simply coalesce those drifting away, rally the Populists and smoke out fence-sitting GOP pols to take a side for or against a Trump run. Given his stalling on Hunter, Garland projects a weakness that makes Jeff Sessions look like Superman.

    DCSCA (26322a)

  137. Y’all may not like Mr. Strzok (and his mannerisms in that hearing are unsettling), but he has some experience on the subject, and he explains why DOJ used a warrant instead of a subpoena.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  138. Rip Murdock @135: I don’t think “any mention” of TS/SCI material would be redacted from the affidavit connected to the warrant when it’s made public – just any description of what it was, since that might be the core of the secret.

    And it wouldn’t have to be all that important for it to be redacted.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/10/2022 @ 1:16 pm

    I agree.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  139. @132

    Whembly, from what I understand they’re prohibited from announcing what they were looking for or why until they file an indictment. (See NK’s link)

    Time123 (1028ee) — 8/10/2022 @ 12:53 pm

    THEN FILE THE BLOODY INDICTMENT!

    You don’t simply execute a fishing expedition HOPING to find that ONE thing you need to justify the search.

    You don’t do this and go radio silence.

    You do this when you damn near KNOW as close to 100% possible to request a warrant like this.

    I’m sorry, but Trump isn’t just a civilian anymore. He’s the FORMER President and that there, inarguably are POLITICAL realities that must be observed prior to doing something like this.

    One, probably at the bloody top, is that you best be SURE that there’s something there. Otherwise, the political ramification is incalculable and I don’t see how this ends.

    In fact. I’m terrified.

    I’m terrified that there are those in FBI/DOJ think this is okay, or just “handwave” it away.

    I’m terrified that this is giving Trump a boost he needed to run for office.

    I’m terrified that Trump is going to win, on a mandate to “drain the swamp” and the pendulum swings so far the other direction that we restructure our government in ways that we can’t anticipate.

    If you think I’m being unfair here, let’s hypothesize something:

    Just image, under the Trump administration, AG Jeff Sessions ‘green lit’ the FBI to raid the Obama’s own home over “pick your controversy“.

    I now, and you know, this would be condemned in such harsh terms by nearly everyone had this occurred.

    If you would’ve been outraged by that hypothetical, why aren’t you at least concerned here?

    whembly (b770f8)

  140. Trump is in perhaps the best position to reveal more details about what transpired on Monday. The former president has access to the full inventory of items that federal investigators were seeking as well as what was taken from his estate during the search. He or his lawyers were almost certainly presented with a copy of the search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago — though not the underlying affidavit or other supplemental materials, which are usually kept confidential until charges are issued or a case is closed. In addition, Trump can speak to the nature of any potentially classified material that may have been the basis for the search and whether he took steps to declassify any of it as he left office.

    “If people are calling for it to be made public, I believe that is within the power of Mr. Trump to do,” (Steven Aftergood, a longtime Federation of American Scientists advocate against government secrecy) said. “He could describe what was at stake and what the point of disagreement was. He doesn’t need to speculate.”

    (David Laufman, who led the Justice Department’s counterintelligence section until 2018) and Aftergood emphasized that the potential culpability for Trump or his allies depends entirely on potential aggravating circumstances — from the volume of classified material in his possession to the level of classification of the information, whether he or any allies misled the National Archives or Justice Department about the inventory at Mar-a-Lago and whether there were efforts to conceal it or resist turning it over.

    A court-authorized FBI search, like the one that occurred Monday, would be warranted, Aftergood said, if “the material is of such extraordinary national security sensitivity that it absolutely must be within government custody.”

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  141. Explain me this.

    How do you convince me otherwise, that the FBI/DOJ view themselves as some sort of Praetorian Guard?

    whembly (b770f8)

  142. Trump is now what sen. joe mccarthy called 5th ammendment communists.

    asset (797d28)

  143. @144. More this: “Secret police” – ‘Police established by national governments to maintain political and social control. Generally clandestine, secret police have operated independently of the civil police. Particularly notorious examples were the Nazi Gestapo, the Russian KGB, and the East German Stasi. Secret-police tactics include arrest, imprisonment, torture, and execution of political enemies and intimidation of potential opposition members.’- britannica.com

    DCSCA (26322a)

  144. Frosty; I don’t see any point in engaging with you on this. You might as well go back to trolling Paul.

    Time123 (1028ee) — 8/10/2022 @ 12:55 pm

    There are some active commenters here who demand to be quoted correctly and then whine about being quoted correctly. They can’t be bothered to quote others or even themselves correctly though. They’ll lie about what other people say, what they’ve said, and be the first to accuse others of lying when an argument doesn’t go their way. They troll and are the first to call other people trolls. They move the goalposts and decide personal insults are the way to go when they can’t back up their points. They argue in bad faith because they don’t apply the same rules to themselves that they expect of others.

    As I’ve said several times before there isn’t much point in you engaging with me. You usually just bring canned talking points and when they don’t work like you expect you start having excuses for why you want to disengage. But if you thought you were winning you’d start making demands.

    So, feel free to not engage. Next time you drop something like the Trump appointed judge I might not be here. You might get lucky and there wouldn’t be anyone here to contradict you and it’d be free pass day for Time.

    frosty (0c5006)

  145. Today’s decree from the castle ramparts by a Royalist mouthpiece: “87,000 IRS agents are good for you– you’ll get better service.” – Gene Sperling, Biden WH Advisor

    =blink=

    Errol Flynn ran through Basil Rathbone for similar musings, Geno.

    DCSCA (26322a)

  146. Maybe it’s possible that Trump issued a formal blanket declassification of anything he was taking with him to Mar-a-Lago right before he left office, or tried to. But he would not have been serious about making all that available.

    We don’t know any of the communication between Trump’s attorneys and the National Archives or the Department of Justice. Trump could make some of that public, also.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  147. This is not a police state. Trump is not in a re-education camp along with the maggot followers of his. They had to get a warrent. While a woman was shot trying to unlawfully break thru a window at the capital maggots are not normally gunned down in the streets by law enforcment like what happened at kent state and jackson state. Or black pathers murdered by police like fred hampton and mark clark. Police are not gunning down maggots like they do un-armed black men. The biden administration has been quite timmid. Compared to past adminisrations. Maggots are lucky they are not treated like leftists and minorities and even so its still not a police state. See the movies missing or Z.

    asset (797d28)

  148. The informer “who was able to identify what classified documents former President Trump was still hiding and even the location of those documents,” per Newsweek (as Mr. Montague linked) had better have some pretty good security protections. MAGA can’t tolerate anyone snitching on the Orange God-King. They’re also threatening the judge who authorized the search warrant, and of course his children too.
    That’s what true Patriots must do to Make America Great Again, I suppose.

    Radegunda (419681)

  149. Re: FBI seized cell phone of Republican Congressman Scott Perry a day after executing a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago.

    I think these are probably two separate investigations.

    The investigation of Scott Perry probably has to do with the Inspector General’s investigation (not even a criminal investigation, just an investigation into people in government acting improperly) of the attempt, at the beginning of 2021, to make Jeffrey Clark, Acting Attorney General, and the attempt to have the Justice Department state (falsely) that they’d found significant evidence of election fraud, which they had not.

    It was Scott Perry who first brought up Jeffrey Clark’s name. ow all this would be about seeing who was in contact with whom.

    And, for all we knw, the true purpose might have been for Jeffrey Clark to make some kind of decision about a totally unrelated matter, possibly for a corrupt reason. (That might make the whole episode make sense)

    But they are probably not at that stage yet or any stage where they seek an explanation as to why and how Jeffrey Clark..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  150. This is the site for crazy takes. Good show!

    Colonel Haiku (5e19ca)

  151. Biden arrives in South Carolina for beach vacation

    KIAWAH ISLAND, S.C., Aug 10 (Reuters) – Finally over his coronavirus infection, President Joe Biden arrived in South Carolina on Wednesday to spend most of the next week on Kiawah Island, an oceanfront golf resort he has visited in the past.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-heading-south-carolina-beach-vacation-2022-08-10/

    WTF? Too much time at the beach; so he goes to– an island beach resort. Rehoboth Beach, Delaware too close to Brandon Falls, eh Joey??

    DCSCA (451315)

  152. IRS agents are mot being added (mainly) to answer the phone, look at email – there isn’t any email address anyway, or open and answer the mail.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  153. My apologies for this off-topic comment, but this is important:

    The Justice Department has charged a member of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in connection with an alleged plot to assassinate former Trump national security adviser John Bolton, one of a number of audacious efforts to kidnap or kill perceived enemies of the Iranian government on U.S. soil, officials said.

    Iran wants revenge for our killing of Qasem Soleimani, a top commander of the IRGC — who was responsible for the deaths of many Americans, and many, many Iraqis.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  154. Whembly, Your hypothetical is a good one, but it’s hard to respond to because while I think I’d say that I’d trust the process to deliver a just result it’s too easy to claim.

    But we have 2 real world examples of the DOJ launching investigations of Trumps political opponents.

    John Huber’s investigation of Hillary Clinton and John Durham’s investigation of the source of the Russia investigation.

    I thought both were politically motivated. A gabillion chants of “lock her up” seemed prejudicial, as did Trumps many public claims on witch hunt.

    But in both cases I trusted that the process (even when executed by highly motivated investigators) would yield a result consistent with our laws. I’m certain I made a ton of comments on this.

    I understand your concerns. Some of them are fair and part of why i want to know what was covered by the warrant. I understand why you’re angry that it appears Trump is being targeted, even if I think some of your predicates are off base.

    Regarding the FBI viewing them as the pretorean guard; I keep coming back to Director Wray. He’s a member of the GOP who was appointed by Trump and confirmed by a GOP controlled Senate. It’s reported that he bought off on the search. While that doesn’t mean the search was justified (he’s a cop after all, they have their own set of biases) it seems to be evidence against him being motivated by partisan malice.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  155. You’d have thought Biden would vacation at Bunker Hill.

    DCSCA (451315)

  156. This is the site for crazy takes. Good show!

    I assume you think the reaction from MAGA Land — calling a property authorized search warrant an act of “war on the American people,” claiming that the FBI planted evidence, calling for defunding the FBI and even dismantling the whole federal government, calling for civil war, asking “when can we start shooting people,” alleging that a federal judge who wasn’t indulgent enough to Trump is a “pedophile” who “should be tried for treason and executed”; etc. — is all sane and reasonable, because the only rational take is that “Trump is always right and always being unjustly persecuted by corrupt & evil people.” Which is orthodoxy in MAGA Land.

    Radegunda (419681)

  157. it seems to be evidence against him being motivated by partisan malice.

    Except in MAGA Land, anything that crosses Trump is proof positive of partisan malice. Like Trump himself, the faithful can’t conceive of any higher standard of right & wrong.

    Radegunda (419681)

  158. “I just want to say a new number: zero.” -Squinty McStumblebum 8/10/22

    New?

    ‘Zero’s origins most likely date back to the “fertile crescent” of ancient Mesopotamia. Sumerian scribes used spaces to denote absences in number columns as early as 4,000 years ago, but the first recorded use of a zero-like symbol dates to sometime around the third century B.C. in ancient Babylon.’

    https://www.history.com/news/who-invented-the-zero

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (451315)

  159. Trump team won’t release FBI warrant for Mar-a-Lago raid as judge weighs motion to unseal it
    ………..
    No, we’re not releasing a copy of the warrant,” NBC News quoted a source close to Trump as saying. His attorney Christina Bobb did not immediately respond to a request for confirmation from The Post.

    But the document may be released anyhow, as US Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart, who issued the warrant, gave the Justice Department until 5 p.m. Aug. 15 to respond to a request to unseal the records from conservative transparency group Judicial Watch.
    ………
    Fox Business also reported Wednesday afternoon that Trump’s legal team is considering legal action to force the Justice Department to “turn over a physical copy of the search warrant, the affidavit, and a complete inventory of what was taken in the Mar-a-Lago raid.” It’s unclear if Trump would publicly release those records.
    ……..
    An eyewitness to the raid said all of the boxes of Trump’s White House records were confiscated.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  160. There is case law about statutes adding requirements to constitutional offices.

    US Term Limits, Inc vs Thornton

    [T]he Supreme Court of the United States ruled that states cannot impose qualifications for prospective members of the U.S. Congress stricter than those specified in the Constitution.

    There is no reason to suppose that Congress can do so, other than under the provisions of the 14th Amendment’s insurrection clause.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  161. he raid on Mar-a-Lago was based largely on information from an FBI confidential human source, one who was able to identify what classified documents former President Trump was still hiding and even the location of those documents, two senior government officials told Newsweek.

    That would be in the affidavit.

    the FBI feared that the documents might be destroyed,

    Why? If Trump didn’t want to keep them (for his library, or for help in writing a book, or as a souvenir) he could have just sent them to the National Archives with no penalty.

    The act, and concerns about the illegal possession of classified “national defense information” are the bases for the search warrant, according to the two sources. The raid had nothing to do with the January 6 investigation or any other alleged wrongdoing by the former president.

    That seems to be coming from all sources.

    In late April, the source says, a federal grand jury began deliberating whether there was a violation of the Presidential Records Act or whether President Trump unlawfully possessed national security information. Through the grand jury process, the National Archives provided federal prosecutors with copies of the documents received from former President Trump in January 2022. The grand jury concluded that there had been a violation of the law, according to the Justice Department source.

    Look who’s talking.

    This leak, also, you know, if true, is a violation of the law.

    Anyway, we can add a grand jury to the chronology. This thing as maybe being carried forward by its own momentum.

    A Secret Service source who spoke on background said the Secret Service director was given advance warning and was later told the specifics of the raid.

    Does “later” mean after it was over?

    The Palm Beach Police Department was also present at the scene.

    The Palm Beach State’s attorney citing the local police was the first source of the fact that the Secret Service was there,

    Trump attorney Lindsey Halligan, who was present during the multi-hour search, says that the FBI targeted three rooms—a bedroom, an office and a storage room. That suggests that the FBI knew specifically where to look.

    So a Trump lawyer was there. Did the FBI impose a limit on the number of lawyers who could be present, or demand authorization from them?

    Also: Were there clothes belonging to Melania in the storage room if that;s all that was searched??

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  162. 165. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:30 pm

    There is no reason to suppose that Congress can do so, other than under the provisions of the 14th Amendment’s insurrection clause.

    No, the impeachment provisions

    And you can’t just call anything you want an insurrection.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  163. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:32 pm

    Do you have any links to your quoted sources?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  164. @151

    Maybe it’s possible that Trump issued a formal blanket declassification of anything he was taking with him to Mar-a-Lago right before he left office, or tried to. But he would not have been serious about making all that available.

    We don’t know any of the communication between Trump’s attorneys and the National Archives or the Department of Justice. Trump could make some of that public, also.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/10/2022 @ 1:54 pm

    POTUS is the ultimate declassifier authority.

    The mere fact of taking classified documents, even those super secret TS/SAP, outside of the classified network “is enough”.

    There are no other ministerial act that is required.

    In normal course, when a POTUS wants to declassify something, said documents are sent to other Agencies to either sign off or request keeping the classification. But that’s not a requirement.

    POTUS could literally blurb a highly classified TS/SAP at a press conference and won’t ever face prosecutions.

    That’s what it mean that POTUS is the ultimate authority of declassified stuff.

    whembly (b770f8)

  165. 264.

    An eyewitness to the raid said all of the boxes of Trump’s White House records were confiscated.

    They took everything >

    Then why did they need more than 8 hours? To search other rooms?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  166. US Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart

    Um … what powers does a mere magistrate have? Can he settle disputes?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  167. However, the president’s authority in this seems to be that “in a gray area”, in that there doesn’t appear to be any legal text, anywhere, governing this authority.

    Anyone have a good source?

    whembly (b770f8)

  168. @146 I don’t think Praetorian Guard is the best fit. I don’t think the upper levels of the DOJ consider themselves beholden to POTUS. I think it’s more like the old Chinese court eunuch system. These are people who consider themselves a government within the government and because of their special position and the sacrifices they’ve made are due certain rights and privileges.

    frosty (3ddca9)

  169. whembly (b770f8) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:36 pm

    POTUS could literally blurb a highly classified TS/SAP at a press conference and won’t ever face prosecutions.

    That’s true. That amounts to declassification. And after all, sometimes it is supposed to be used for foreign policy purposes.

    But Trump did not make anything public when he removed rapidly packed up boxes of documents from the White House.

    There’s also the matter of Presidential records.

    That’s what it mean that POTUS is the ultimate authority of declassified stuff.

    And anybody who classified something in the first place, has the authority to declassify it.

    Or else they couldn’t use it, practically..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  170. The FBI is not a Praetorian Guard. It simply is very political.

    And this is what they do to protect themselves against both parties, bearing in mind that the Democratic Party is usually, over time, the stronger one:

    More or less:

    They avoid, if they can, investigations of any prominent Washington connected Democrat.

    They investigate, but avoid, if they can, bringing charges against any prominent Washington connected Republican.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  171. @159

    Regarding the FBI viewing them as the pretorean guard; I keep coming back to Director Wray. He’s a member of the GOP who was appointed by Trump and confirmed by a GOP controlled Senate. It’s reported that he bought off on the search. While that doesn’t mean the search was justified (he’s a cop after all, they have their own set of biases) it seems to be evidence against him being motivated by partisan malice.

    Time123 (b64e57) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:18 pm

    It’s absolutely meaningless that he was nominated/confirmed by GOP.

    They have their own agency and have biases that can overshadow that.

    whembly (b770f8)

  172. @173

    @146 I don’t think Praetorian Guard is the best fit. I don’t think the upper levels of the DOJ consider themselves beholden to POTUS. I think it’s more like the old Chinese court eunuch system. These are people who consider themselves a government within the government and because of their special position and the sacrifices they’ve made are due certain rights and privileges.

    frosty (3ddca9) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:39 pm

    The Preatorian Guard also “selected” their leaders. (ie. Claudius).

    whembly (b770f8)

  173. So the answer to “why is Trump being treated differently” might be “because he changed the law to make it a more serious crime”.

    I very much doubt that Trump “changed the law” or even knew that provision was being changed. Or possibly that there ever was such a provision. Given the size of these bills, signing them is almost ministerial.

    I’d be interested in WHEN this was changed and when the (obviously unconstitutional) disqualification language was added. It could well have been targeted at Trump by opponents who knew is habits. BTW, do we know that no previous presidents retained this type of thing?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  174. OT- Amazing video clip– or the price of OPEC oil dropped to $5/bbl.:

    Saudi businessman Muhammad Al-Qahtani dies mid-speech in shocking video

    Shocking video has captured the moment a businessman collapsed and died while giving a speech at a conference in Egypt. Muhammad Al-Qahtani, a Saudi businessman reportedly residing in the United Arab Emirates, was giving a speech at the speaking at the Arab-African Conference in Cairo on Monday when he appeared to lose consciousness and fall over backward.

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/10/saudi-businessman-muhammad-al-qahtani-dies-mid-speech-in-shocking-video/

    “Bad dates.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qIMTA4_YdU&t=3s

    DCSCA (451315)

  175. @41: I’m surprised–but not surprised–by the histrionics over this. It seems that a more adult reaction would be to wait and see.

    You know, in a long life I have learned that the person in an argument who says “Oh, don’t worry, this can all be sorted out later” is a crook. He knows full well that if it isn’t sorted out now it never will be, but he’s hoping that his “voice of reason” will convince the chumps to let it slide past.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  176. US Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart

    Um … what powers does a mere magistrate have? Can he settle disputes?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:36 pm

    In criminal proceedings, magistrate judges preside over misdemeanor and petty offense cases, and as to all criminal cases (felony and misdemeanor) may issue search warrants, arrest warrants, and summonses, accept criminal complaints, conduct initial appearance proceedings and detention hearings, set bail or other conditions of release or detention, hold preliminary hearings and examinations, administer oaths, conduct extradition proceedings, and conduct evidentiary hearings on motions to suppress evidence in felony cases for issuance of reports and recommendations to the district judge…….In civil proceedings, magistrate judges typically manage discovery and other pretrial matters. They are authorized to issue orders in pretrial matters as long as the order is not dispositive of the case as a whole (for example, an order granting summary judgment is not within their purview). They may also be assigned to write reports and recommendations to the district judge as to dispositive matters. With the consent of the parties, they may adjudicate civil cases in the same manner as a district judge, including presiding over jury or non-jury trials.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  177. Judge who approved Trump search warrant attacked for synagogue involvement
    ……….
    Judge Bruce Reinhart, a former prosecutor who had previously been criticized for representing former employees of Jeffrey Epstein related to his sex-trafficking scandal, appears to be on the board of a South Florida synagogue. Trump loyalists eager to question the legitimacy of the FBI raid seized upon that detail, with Lenny Dykstra, a retired New York Mets legend, questioning the nature of the Reform shul’s Judaism.

    “I hope you all weren’t expecting that the synagogue where go-ahead-and-raid-Trump Judge #BruceReinhart is on the board of trustees is one where the congregation keeps kosher, observes the sabbath, etc. You can bet they’re into “social justice” of course!” Dykstra tweeted to his nearly 87,000 followers.

    ………A Bruce Reinhart is listed on the current board of trustees on the website of Temple Beth David, a Reform congregation in Palm Beach Gardens.

    The synagogue did not immediately respond to inquiries on Tuesday afternoon.
    ………

    Bizarre.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  178. Uh, yeah, Rip I read that, too. It still doesn’t answer whether he can open a sealed document to the press. Or if the decision can be appealed.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  179. The other question has should be asked is: Why would Trump take these records?

    Is there material he feels he needs to defend some action?
    Is there material he needs to ensure the cooperation of someone named in them?
    Is there material he feels is derogatory (or worse) to him personally?
    Is there personal material that he wants for the Trump Museum?

    Or did he just take it accidentally and won’t return it because FU?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  180. Maybe he should say it was the “real vote count.” Never tell a small lie when a bigger lie is available.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  181. It still doesn’t answer whether he can open a sealed document to the press.

    Since he has order the DOJ to respond by next week on Judicial Watch’s request, I assume he can unseal the document. Otherwise he would have JW to pound sand. I am guessing that either side could appeal an adverse decision to the District Court.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  182. So Biden didn’t know… now it’s Garland didn’t know… a hair-up-its-ass/off the reservation raid by the FBI?

    So the Feebs and Epstein’s lawyer take it for Team Stasi!

    Colonel Haiku (d712a2)

  183. @182 One person making a tweet is now an attack. That seems about right given the times.

    frosty (99d56c)

  184. The lies! The lies!

    They’ll lie in your face!
    The Trumphumpers!
    All the time they’re dreaming of taking Roy Cohn’s place!
    The Trumphumpers!

    (D) Return. … The judge must, on request, give a copy of the inventory to the person from whom, or from whose premises, the property was taken and to the applicant for the warrant.

    They know they’re lying. They know that we know that they’re lying. They just want to drown out reality.

    nk (970736)

  185. 184.

    Is there personal material that he wants for the Trump Museum?

    It’s mostly that except he may want some as ammunition in a controversy/

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  186. Really, Sammmy? Would you like to consider what Mohammed bin Salman could do with satellite photos of Israel’s Iron Dome emplacements, for one of the less scary possibilities?

    nk (970736)

  187. So the government is going after the frontrunner to replace the current occupant of the White House.

    Funny how so many here want to ignore that.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  188. @182 One person making a tweet is now an attack. That seems about right given the times.

    frosty (99d56c) — 8/10/2022 @ 4:00 pm

    Obviously an insult is a form of attack (as we have seen here). I was more struck by who sent the tweet.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  189. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/10/2022 @ 2:53 pm

    This is correct. I had to be taught this lesson twice before it sank in.

    felipe (484255)

  190. It’s been a bad week so far for Trump, and it’s only Wednesday:

    ………
    On Monday, FBI agents searched his residence and office space at his home in Mar-a-Lago, a Florida resort property. People familiar with that investigation said the agents were seeking classified documents and other presidential records amid a months-long disagreement between federal officials and Trump’s advisers about whether he withheld important files or items that belonged to the government.
    ………
    The following day, FBI agents involved in a different case took the cellphone of one of Trump’s most forceful congressional allies, Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.). The court-approved seizure was part of an expansive Justice Department investigation into efforts by Trump supporters to block Joe Biden’s electoral victory by trying to advance fake electors in late 2020, said people familiar with that investigation, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss it.
    ………
    Then, on Wednesday morning, Trump arrived at a Manhattan office building to be deposed in James’s investigation of his business dealings. While the case is civil rather than criminal, any information he provided in such a deposition could be used in some of the criminal investigations surrounding him.
    ………
    Tristan Snell, a former lawyer in the attorney general’s office, said investigators are probably pleased with Wednesday’s deposition, because Trump’s refusal to answer questions essentially amounts to an admission of guilt and would be seen as such if the case is tried in court.

    “This is one of the best outcomes they could have hoped for going into this,” said Snell, who worked on the state’s case against Trump University, which resulted in a $25 million settlement. He said Trump’s decision to plead the Fifth only increased the odds James’s office would succeed in an enforcement action against Trump and his company.

    ……..Trump repeatedly deferring to his constitutional protection at the interview “raises a strong inference” of liability in a civil case, where the burden of proof is much lower than in criminal court, Snell said.
    ……….
    In a separate long-running inquiry involving Trump, a federal appeals court panel in D.C. ruled Tuesday that a House committee is entitled to review the former president’s tax returns for 2015 to 2020.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  191. His army of fanbois don’t know the law well enough to know that they’re lying, and will believe the lies because anyone who opposes trump in any way is presumptively part of a malicious conspiracy against him.

    aphrael (546c3c)

  192. Njrob, the doj publically announced that it was reopening an investigation into the front runner in 2016 less than two weeks before election day. Why is serving a search warrant on an undeclared candidate more than two years before the election *worse*, in your mind?

    aphrael (9a03e6)

  193. It’s been a bad week so far for Trump, and it’s only Wednesday

    You just don’t get it. There’s no such thing as ‘bad publicity.’ He’s a media pro. Trump is living rent free in your mind, 18 months out of office.

    DCSCA (5b5677)

  194. @184 Some of the reports on this put it at some version of the last one but more along the lines of he just couldn’t be bothered. I’m not sure he has any idea what’s in the boxes.

    frosty (f2d295)

  195. @191 You’re thinking maybe the DOD/NSA/NRO/CIA/whoever would just leave that around unattended for it to drop into a box that gets shipped to FL when Trump leaves the WH and they’re just now getting around to having the FBI go get it back for them?

    That’s always been the flaw in the super secret info theory. It depends on people not known for being stupid to be stupid. Or it depends on Trump snapping pics with his spy camera to make his own copies.

    frosty (f2d295)

  196. @197 Well, for one thing they announced the investigation and then didn’t actually do a lot of investigation, or anything else. Then they all but admitted they opened the investigation because they thought if they didn’t it would make them look bad and that would look worse for HRC than an investigation that didn’t lead to an indictment.

    So, I’m not sure this issue is worse. Just different and both show a politicized DOJ.

    Are you thinking that because the DOJ rained on HRC no one should complain about them raining on DT?

    frosty (f2d295)

  197. I’m thinking that people who cheered it in 2016 but denounce it today need to be able to explain their shift in perspective.

    aphrael (954d17)

  198. 198- also taking up space in da brain box of the no trump flock is his kids, friends and loyalists… imagine the brain matter splattered by the never trump flock.

    mg (8cbc69)

  199. According to a news story I read, close associates of Donald Trump were divided the other day at some meeting (in New Jersey I think) on whether he should announce soon or not.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  200. Suspect dies during standoff following attempt to break into Cincinnati FBI HQ, police say

    CINCINNATI (WXIX/Gray News) – An hours-long standoff between law enforcement and an armed suspect who tried to break into Cincinnati FBI headquarters Thursday morning and then fled, shooting at state troopers, has ended with the suspect’s death, according to Ohio State Highway Patrol.

    Around 3:40 p.m., OSHP said the man raised a gun at officers, who returned fire. No law enforcement officers or bystanders have been hurt.

    Clinton County EMA Director Thomas Breckel said two medical helicopters were in the area waiting if they were needed and at least one of them was released. Before the standoff, the unidentified armed suspect tried to breach the FBI’s Visitor Screening Facility at its headquarters in Sycamore Township around 9:15 a.m., the bureau said. An alarm went off, prompting armed FBI agents to respond, and the suspect fled onto northbound I-71, the FBI said in a tweet.

    Troopers found the suspect’s vehicle, a Ford Crown Victoria, near the northbound I-71 rest area around 9:37 a.m., where the pursuit began. OSHP said a gunshot was fired from inside the suspect’s vehicle. The pursuit continued until the suspect exited I-71 onto eastbound State Route 73 and then went north on Smith Road, according to OSP.

    The vehicle passed over I-71 on Smith Road, stopped around 10 a.m. near Van Trees Road, and then the suspect exited the vehicle and exchanged gunfire with law enforcement, troopers say. The hours-long standoff ensued until the suspect died.

    OSHP said they are still in process of identifying the deceased suspect. Breckel says both sides of Interstate 71 are back open in Clinton County because authorities have decided it’s far enough away from the standoff scene and is not a risk to the public. State Route 73 and State Route 380 are also back open.

    A lockdown remains in effect for all buildings within a one-mile radius of Smith and Center roads near the standoff scene. People in that area are being told to lock their doors and remain inside, according to Clinton County Emergency Management Agency. The incident comes a day after the FBI director warned against threats circulating online against FBI agents and the Justice Department after the agency’s search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home.

    On Gab, a social media site popular with white supremacists and antisemites, users have warned they are preparing for an armed revolution, the Associated Press said. Officials are tracking social media traffic threatening violence against federal agents. “Violence against law enforcement is not the answer, no matter who you’re upset with,” FBI Director Christopher Wray said Wednesday in Omaha.

    https://www.kmvt.com/2022/08/11/armed-subject-tried-breach-fbi-hq-cincinnati-agency-reports/

    DCSCA (945a84)


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