Patterico's Pontifications

7/27/2022

AG: Anyone Criminally Responsible For Attempting to Interfere In Lawful Transfer of Power Will Be Held Accountable. Anyone…

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:45 am



[guest post by Dana]

The Department of Justice is looking into Donald Trump’s conduct and conversations concerning efforts to overturn the 2020 election results:

Prosecutors who are questioning witnesses before a grand jury — including two top aides to Vice President Mike Pence — have asked in recent days about conversations with Trump, his lawyers, and others in his inner circle who sought to substitute Trump allies for certified electors from some states Joe Biden won, according to two people familiar with the matter. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

The prosecutors have asked hours of detailed questions about meetings Trump led in December 2020 and January 2021; his pressure campaign on Pence to overturn the election; and what instructions Trump gave his lawyers and advisers about fake electors and sending electors back to the states, the people said. Some of the questions focused directly on the extent of Trump’s involvement in the fake-elector effort led by his outside lawyers, including John Eastman and Rudy Giuliani, these people said.

According to the report, there are two possible avenues of investigation concerning the former president’s role surrounding Jan. 6:

The first centers on seditious conspiracy and conspiracy to obstruct a government proceeding, the type of charges already filed against individuals who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6 and on two leaders of far-right groups, Stewart Rhodes and Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, who did not breach the Capitol but were allegedly involved in planning the day’s events.

The second involves potential fraud associated with the false-electors scheme or with pressure Trump and his allies allegedly put on the Justice Department and others to falsely claim that the election was rigged and votes were fraudulently cast.

Meanwhile, Attorney General Merrick Garland said in an interview this week that prosecuting Donald Trump and others for involvement surrounding Jan. 6 has not been ruled out:

“We pursue justice without fear or favor. We intend to hold everyone — anyone — who is criminally responsible for the events surrounding January 6 or any attempt to interfere with the lawful transfer of power from one administration to another accountable,” Garland told NBC News’ Lester Holt… “That is what we do. We don’t pay any attention to other issues with respect to that.”

[…]

Pressed by Holt on whether a 2024 White House bid from Trump would change that, Garland maintained: “I will say again that we will hold accountable anyone who is criminally responsible for attempting to interfere with the legitimate, lawful transfer of power from one administration to the next.”

Meanwhile, Trump responded to the report just as you would expect him to:

“Just more disinformation by the Democrats, like the Russia, Russia, Russia Scam, Impeachment Hoax #1, Impeachment Hoax #2, the long running Mueller Report, which ended in No Collusion, and so much more,” Trump began a series of posts on his Truth Social platform. “Now that we have found the answers to these crooked, election changing events, why is the Justice Department not prosecuting those responsible? Plenty of time left!”

[…]

“People forget, this is all about a Rigged and Stolen Election,” Trump wrote Wednesday. “But rather than go after the people that Rigged and Stole it, they go after the people that are seeking Honesty and Truth, and have Freedom of Speech, and many other defenses, on their side! Justice Department should look at The Crime of the Century. Evidence is massive and irrefutable!!!”

Trump also went after Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and his request that the official find him 11,000 votes:

“The Georgia phone calls were PERFECT,” Trump insisted.

“Many people and lawyers, on both sides, were knowingly on the one call, I assumed the call was taped, there were Zero complaints or angry ‘how dare you’ charges made during the call, and no ‘hang ups’ by anyone aggrieved or insulted at what was said. THEY WERE PERFECT CALLS.

“I was just doing my job as President, and seeking Fairness and the Truth,” he continued. “The Election was Rigged and Stolen!”

Sure you were.

–Dana

87 Responses to “AG: Anyone Criminally Responsible For Attempting to Interfere In Lawful Transfer of Power Will Be Held Accountable. Anyone…”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. He will be charged of several serious crimes, such as seditious conspriacy, and then Biden will pardon him with the condition that he stay out of politics.

    This will be for several reasons: 1) not wanting a president on trial, 2) not wanting Trump running again, 3) not wanting “pardoning Trump” a political issue in 2024, and 4) Biden isn’t running again anyway.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  3. @2. He will be inaugurated on January 20, 2025. And send Vice President Haley to attend the Biden memorial service at the National Cathedral.

    DCSCA (20660c)

  4. How is a condition on a pardon legally enforceable, and why would anyone expect Trump to abide by such a promise if it isn’t legally enforceable?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  5. We’ll see how well that works for them.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  6. I want to see any fraudulent electors that broke the law charged. Trumps plot required a lot of people to go along with him. Many did. If they broke the law There needs to be a deterrent to future fraudulent electors. We rightly punish people to cast illegal votes. In my view fraudulent electors is a far more serious thing.

    Time123 (b612e6)

  7. Probably as well as the rest of their agenda…

    “Well, look, I think that our — our economy is more resilient to the — to the types of challenges that we’ve faced. For example, you know, with respect to food, we’re a net exporter of agricultural commodities. And, obviously, the high prices are hitting Americans very hard, but…in a way, that is different from some places that are facing famine, for example.

    —- White House Economic Advisor Brian Deese

    https://twitter.com/MargolisandCox/status/1552292191917187077?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1552292191917187077%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpjmedia.com%2Fnews-and-politics%2Fmatt-margolis%2F2022%2F07%2F27%2Fwhite-house-the-economy-is-great-because-were-not-like-other-places-facing-famine-n1616124

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  8. @7. No famine here?

    Hungry for Leadership: Biden/Harris 2024?!?! 😉

    DCSCA (20660c)

  9. A number of the Founders thought it very dangerous for the Executive to have the power to pardon treasons, as the Executive might be their author. A major debate on September 15, 1787:

    Art: II. sect. 2. “he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the U. S. &c”

    Mr Randolph moved to “except cases of treason”. The prerogative of pardon in these cases was too great a trust. The President may himself be guilty. The Traytors may be his own instruments.

    Note: This was a repeated demand by Edmund Randolph, and one of the reasons he refused to sign the final version.

    Col: Mason supported the motion.

    Mr Govr Morris had rather there should be no pardon for treason, than let the power devolve on the Legislature.

    Mr Wilson. Pardon is necessary for cases of treason, and is best placed in the hands of the Executive. If he be himself a party to the guilt he can be impeached and prosecuted.

    Mr. King thought it would be inconsistent with the Constitutional separation of the Executive & Legislative powers to let the prerogative be exercised by the latter — A Legislative body is utterly unfit for the purpose. They are governed too much by the passions of the moment. In Massachusetts, one assembly would have hung all the insurgents in that [627] State: the next was equally disposed to pardon them all. He suggested the expedient of requiring the concurrence of the Senate in Acts of Pardon.

    Mr. Madison admitted the force of objections to the Legislature, but the pardon of treasons was so peculiarly improper for the President that he should acquiesce in the transfer of it to the former, rather than leave it altogether in the hands of the latter. He would prefer to either an association of the Senate as a Council of advice, with the President.

    Mr Randolph could not admit the Senate into a share of the Power. the great danger to liberty lay in a combination between the President & that body —

    Col: Mason. The Senate has already too much power — There can be no danger of too much lenity in legislative pardons, as the Senate must con concur, & the President moreover can require ⅔ of both Houses4

    On the motion of Mr. Randolph

    N. H. no— Mas. no— Ct. divd. N— J— no. Pa. no— Del. no. Md no— Va ay— N— C. no— S. C. no. Geo— ay. [Ayes — 2; noes — 8; divided — 1.]

    George Mason also did not sign, and listed a number of objections, among which was:

    The President of the United States has the unrestrained power of granting pardons for treason, which may be sometimes exercised to screen from punishment those whom he had secretly instigated to commit the crime, and thereby prevent a discovery of his own guilt.

    The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, Vol 2

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  10. How is a condition on a pardon legally enforceable, and why would anyone expect Trump to abide by such a promise if it isn’t legally enforceable?

    Yes, they can be.

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/pardons.html

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  11. Also, were Trump to actually stand trial and be convicted, Biden could commute any sentence and directly impose conditions that would last the duration of the original sentence.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  12. Agnew wrote a book on his resignation, titled Go Quietly…or Else, suggesting what the conditions were for dropping most of the felony charges against him.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  13. OT- Fed hikes rates by three-quarters of a percentage point to fight inflation – WAPO.com

    Carterrific!

    Inflation: ‘It’s transitory,’ eh, Squinty.

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (33404d)

  14. Ex-VP Chief Marc Short: ‘There Would Have Been A Massacre In The Capitol That Day’ If Rioters Had Gotten Closer to Pence
    ………
    Short …….was interviewed Monday night by ABC News’ Linsey Davis just days after he testified to a grand jury in Attorney General Merrick Garland‘s investigation into the attack on the Capitol.
    ………
    But Short did make a point of pushing back on what he says is a “mischaracterization” by the committee of the danger Pence and his Secret Service detail were in during the riot.

    Last week, a witness described hearing members of Pence’s detail calling their families to say goodbye. But Short told Davis it was the rioters who were in danger:

    ……..
    Well, I think that having the Capitol ransacked the way that it was, I think did present liability and danger. And I think the Secret Service did a phenomenal job that day. I think that the bigger risk, and despite the way perhaps it was characterized in the hearings last week, candidly, is that if the mob had gotten closer to the vice president, I do think there would have been a massacre in the Capitol that day. I’m not so sure the Secret Service lives were those in danger, though? I think that likely there would have been a lot of other lives lost that day. And I think that there are a lot of challenges that are posed by Secret Service, who obviously did not anticipate the Capitol being breached, and it’s been reported, wanted to evacuate the vice president off the property, but he refused. And so that created extra challenges. And, you know, candidly, they just did an amazing job that day in protecting not just him, his family, but the staff that was around him as well.
    ……….
    You know, I don’t know that I did (feel my life was in jeopardy). I really felt that being surrounded by very large Secret Service agents with weapons was a very comforting position to be in. And I think that that they, they had us in in in in control and they, they told us where to go.

    ………

    Video at link.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. Garland has a lot on his plate

    I’m not sure he’ll have time to handle J6 prosecutions until after he’s done with angry parents at school board meetings

    looks like he needs to hire more staff

    JF (bac5f1)

  16. Doomsday Trump Indictment Clock update:

    still 100 seconds to midnight

    JF (bac5f1)

  17. still 100 seconds to midnight

    You realize that the doomsday clock is in minutes, don’t you, so 100 seconds is less than two minutes.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/01/20/doomsday-clock-2022-100-seconds-midnight/6584137001/

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  18. This is off topic and maybe should be in the weekend thread but the OP posted here. I’ll get tot the topic of this thread soon.

    13.

    Inflation: ‘It’s transitory,’ eh, Squinty.

    They’ve moved on to “There are several definitions of a recession, and we haven’t met all of them, so we can’t say that we’re yet in a recession.” Pathetic, really.

    And inflation was transitory, if left alone – but just on the order of 2 to 4 years, till enough new shipping containers were made (shipping containers were in abundance, but in 2020-21 many older ones had gone on 1-way trips from China to to Africa delivering PPE mostly) and the price for transportation got back down.

    Now, raising interest rate raises the inflation rate IMMEDIATELY – it doesn’t lower it – but it raises it so quickly that they’ll say “Oh, we acted just a little bit too late” They’ll do it every time.

    Wall Street speculators expect the Fed to drop interest rates early next year, so this will be like 1957-58, or perhaps 1980.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/investors-bet-fed-will-need-to-cut-interest-rates-next-year-to-bolster-the-economy-11658694486

    In rare wager, investors expect a quick U-turn on rates: more increases this year, then cuts next year as economy weakens

    …On net, investors’ current assumptions about the future are doing more to help the inflation fight than hurt it. Their belief that the Fed will keep raising interest rates this year means that yields are roughly 3% on Treasurys that mature in a year, even though the actual rate controlled by the Fed is currently set between 1.5% and 1.75%.

    Meanwhile the Chinese government has been spying on the Fed since 2013 – even threatening some officials who travel to China with arrest.

    https://www.voanews.com/a/senate-report-alleges-chinese-effort-to-infiltrate-federal-reserve-/6674963.html

    In one case, the report alleges that a Fed economist was detained while traveling in China and threatened with arrest and retaliation against his family if he did not cooperate.

    Of course now the Fed is more transparent than it used to be, and I don’t know how the Chinese Communist Party can know what the Fed is going to do before the Fed itself does.

    For that, you’ve got to have a correct economic theory and awareness of where the Fed’s theory is wrong. They’re not necessarily going to get that from people who work for the Fed.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  19. Trump to sue CNN over its disinformation regarding “The Steal™”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  20. Biden’s stasi trying to trump up charges against a political opponent. What’s next? The gulag.

    NJRob (ca1bc8)

  21. ok so it was 81 million of the dumbest sons of biotches on the planet

    mg (8cbc69)

  22. Who’s leaking this about the investigation of Trump?

    One avenue seems to be the idea that he wanted the assault to happen. I think that is disproven by the fact that he wanted to go to the Capitol himself right at the time that the riot was starting – and also that he was trying to ignore it as late as 2:26 pm and concentrating on trying to get Senators to stick to planned Parliamentary maneuvers.

    The second idea seems to be trying to make something into a crime (the false-electors scheme) that wasn’t a crime. Although if he was pressuring people to do something even though they thought it was wrong, it could tip over into it. The crime would be extortion. Trump didn’t do that – he never broke cover (or indicated that he didn’t believe what he was saying)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  23. 4. aphrael (4c4719) — 7/27/2022 @ 10:01 am

    How is a condition on a pardon legally enforceable,

    There’s one way:

    Trump could agree to a being impeached, and tell Republican members of Congress to vote for it. The impeachment could be on the grounds he attempted to overturn the Electoral vote.

    here have been plea bargains in exchange for resigning an office.

    Here you’d need something a little bit more prolonged, and Trump would have to co-operate in his own disqualification. Not impossible.

    But then there’s the problem of how do you guarantee that Biden will stick to his side of the bargain? It would seem there would have to be a certain element of trust on somebody’s part.

    Of course there’s always public opinion, and this kind of a deal somehow works during a plea bargain. Sometimes in advance of a plea bargain. New York Governor Eliot Spitzer resigned in 2008 and wasn’t charged with anything, but I think avoiding prosecution was a motive (besides the fact that he had totally destroyed his credibility, and that he didn’t have any idea of what to do about the recession.)

    Governor Andrew Cuomo also resigned in order to avoid something , but in is case after the peril passed he was ready to get back into elective politics – except that nobody wanted him.

    and why would anyone expect Trump to abide by such a promise if it isn’t legally enforceable?

    Besides Trump arranging for his own impeachment, timing could also do it — like filing deadlines. But this would not be perfect as the Republican convention could still nominate him.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  24. 14. Yes, the whole thing about the Secret Service people making their final goodbyes was probably a distortion, and maybe only a few did. It may have happened, but for them to risk being killed they’d probably have to hold their fire too long. Not an impossible scenario, however.

    They could also have been concerned about possible weapons carried by people in the crowd, even if in fact there were no such weapons there, and no bombs.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  25. @18. Yes, azzhole of the month Gene Sperling was there in the Clinton days when the ‘definition of is, is’ thing was in dispute. 😉

    DCSCA (7c35aa)

  26. Time123 (b612e6) — 7/27/2022 @ 10:06 am

    I want to see any fraudulent electors that broke the law charged. Trumps plot required a lot of people to go along with him. Many did.

    The interesting thing is they were more likely to do so when it wouldn’t matter.

    By the way, four of the original 16 Georgia electors dropped out.

    If they broke the law There needs to be a deterrent to future fraudulent electors. We rightly punish people to cast illegal votes. In my view fraudulent electors is a far more serious thing.

    This is really a case of people falsely claiming to be entitled to vote, but not supplying any reason to support that, so there’s no lies being told. Every fact is out in the open.

    This kind of thing could get too much into assessing people’s state of mind

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  27. Sammy, Trump loves the idea of people being violent on his behalf, remember the whole thing about him encouraging his voters to beat up reporters? He likes knowing people will be violent for him and he likes watching it. Going down to the Capitol and watching his people take on the Capitol police to try and take out Congress on his behalf would’ve tickled him pink.

    Nic (896fdf)

  28. @27. Trump? Violent??? 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkHqCEu9ogs

    Now THAT’S entertainment! 😉

    DCSCA (7c35aa)

  29. Nic (896fdf) — 7/27/2022 @ 1:24 pm

    Sammy, Trump loves the idea of people being violent on his behalf,

    Violent toward hecklers.

    remember the whole thing about him encouraging his voters to beat up reporters?

    Were any beaten up?

    In one or two cases he cheered it on, after the fact, and it was in order to encourage hostility toward the targets..

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/current/donald-trump-celebrates-violence-against-journalists

    He also justified what police did in 2020:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/517713-trump-mocks-reporters-who-were-roughed-up-by-police-during-protests/

    The president, during a rally in Pennsylvania, recounted watching the demonstrations play out as he lamented that law enforcement had not been allowed to go in and break up the protests. But he was more gleeful when describing how MSNBC’s Ali Velshi was hit in the knee with a rubber bullet, though he misidentified the reporter and the object that struck him.

    “Remember that beautiful sight? The street was a mess,” Trump said, describing Minneapolis. “That idiot reporter from CNN got hit on the knee with a can of tear gas, right? And he went down. ‘I’ve been hit. I’ve been hit.’”

    “But he went down, and he didn’t like it. He was hit. ‘Police brutality,’” Trump shouted mockingly.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  30. He likes knowing people will be violent for him

    Not for him, but against “bad guys” like hecklers and reporters who like covering violence.

    and he likes watching it.

    Where do you get that – that he likes seeing it live?

    Going down to the Capitol and watching his people take on the Capitol police to try and take out Congress on his behalf would’ve tickled him pink.

    Trump is not insane. This is just trying to stick to the first opinion.

    And he had very specific plans for the day.

    Of course, he faced checkmate, no matter what he did.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  31. WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) is not real.

    Everything there was scripted.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  32. Were any beaten up?

    Yes, reporters were attacked in Minnesota and El Paso. Trump also encouraged his guys to punch protesters which they also did.

    Trump is not insane.

    No, he’s not. He’s like one of those girls that likes seeing boys fight over them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  33. Leave It to Beaver’ co-star Tony Dow dead at 77, a day after premature announcement

    (Reuters) – Actor Tony Dow, best known for his role as Wally Cleaver in the 1950s American TV sitcom “Leave It to Beaver,” died Wednesday at age 77, his family and management team said on Wednesday, a day after his death was announced prematurely.

    Golly. Again. R.I.P., Wally– good memories from better times.

    DCSCA (7c35aa)

  34. nic – You said that “Trump is like one of those girls that likes seeing boys fight over them”.

    I agree, and you give me more evidence for a theory that I have had for years. I think everyone knows — OK, everyone should know — that Trump is in many ways like a small boy, like Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes.

    But he is also like another familiar type. He is obsessed with appearances, gossip, and social media. He often spends hours on the phone. In other words, as well as being like a small boy, he is also like a great many girls. (You can probably tell us what ages you see the most of that kind of behavior.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  35. Rule of Law? Someone in authority should show some interest in determine who’s responsible for these criminal leaks.

    This country used to be fairly serious about its justice system.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  36. @Jim MIller You can probably tell us what ages you see the most of that kind of behavior.)

    13 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  37. Unlike those who spend hours b*tching and writing about Trump… right, mean girls? 😁

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  38. Teddy Roosevelt was said to be like a small boy – but more honest.

    They have Trump wanting to lead the charge like TR at Sa Juan Hill.

    I don’t think Trump is like a small boy – or like the Roman Emperor Nero supposedly (mistakenly) was thought to be, fiddling while Rome burnt.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  39. This country used to be fairly serious about its justice system.

    ‘Fairly’…b 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E33qzW4Qvr8

    DCSCA (7c35aa)

  40. Beaverwatch 2022.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  41. Unlike those who spend hours b*tching and writing about Trump… right, mean girls?

    I can’t understand why you and others seem so protective of Trump, considering what he’s done. It’s funny too because we all know that if he was a Democratic president who did the very same thing, there wouldn’t be this circling of the wagons to protect him and frankly, infantilizing him and giving him cover.
    Also, you wouldn’t be attacking those who write about the situation and try to keep abreast of exactly how much damage he wrought and with what level of threat he continues to be to the country.

    This is another example of the dangers of partisanship and/or putting a politician on a pedestal.

    Dana (1225fc)

  42. While this dog and pony show is distracting the “watchdogs” on the right, Manchin just cut a deal with Schumer to sell America down the river. Here comes the commie luddite agenda on steroids.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  43. @41

    Spot on, Dana. I know quite a few Trump supporters in real life. I get the sense that they fell in love with him (which one should never do when it comes to politicians), and now support him like he’s the leader of their religion.

    Trump is good at simplifying things for those who get frustrated over the state of the world, and don’t understand its complexities. He makes politics like a comic book, and of course he is the superhero. He appeals to emotions.

    It’s powerful stuff.

    It’s why cults exist.

    norcal (da5491)

  44. Dana – There is another reason for writing about Trump frequently. Until he is no longer a force in the Republican Party, it will be difficult for Republicans to tackle our many problems, rather than Trump’s psychological problems. For instance, we really, really ought to be looking hard at ways to decrease deaths from drug overdoses. And we ought to be thinking hard about how to answer the Chinese challenge. And so on, and so on.

    Even many who are loyal to the Republican Party, as well as the United States, want him to go away so the party can begin to recover from the damage he has done to it.

    The most recent CNN poll shows the percentage of Republicans who want Trump to run for president in 2024 has fallen six points from February, to 44 percent. The percentage of those who think President Biden legitimately won rose from 62 percent in February to 69 percent.

    Traditionally, and for good reasons, American presidents have mostly shut up after they left the office. Most Americans, even about half of Republicans, would be happy were Trump to follow that honorable tradition.

    Returning to my little boy analogy, I htink it’s time for Trump to take a “time out”. A long time out.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  45. @44. Earth to Jimbo: Trump is the Republican Party. He is the United States; bold, brash, bombastic, a showman, proud- sometimes bullying- but always America first… it’s populism, Jimbo:

    “He’s Mr. Big and Mr. Small, he’s simple and he’s wise, he’s inherently honest but he’s got a streak of larceny in his heart. He seldom walks up to a public telephone without shovin’ his finger into the slot to see if somebody left a nickel there. He’s the man the ads are written for. He’s the fella everybody sells things to. He’s Joe Doakes, the world’s greatest stooge and the world’s greatest strength. Yes sir, yes sir, we’re a great family, the John Does. We are the meek who are supposed to inherit the earth. You’ll find us everywhere. We raise the crops, we dig the mines, work the factories, keep the books, fly the planes and drive the buses, and when the cop yells, ‘Stand back there you,’ he means us – the John Does. We’ve existed since time began. We built the pyramids. We saw Christ crucified, pulled the oars for Roman emperors, sailed the boats for Columbus, retreated from Moscow with Napoleon, and froze with Washington at Valley Forge. Yes sir, we’ve been in there dodging left hooks since before History began to walk. In our struggle for freedom, we’ve hit the canvas many a time, but we always bounced back because we’re the people – and we’re tough.” – L.J. Willoughby ‘Meet John Doe’ 1941

    DCSCA (5013a6)

  46. I get the sense that they fell in love with him (which one should never do when it comes to politicians), and now support him like he’s the leader of their religion.

    … a regular Pierre Delecto. 😉

    DCSCA (5013a6)

  47. One of the less well-known facts about the drug overdose problem is that it was already bad enough in Obama’s last two years in office . . . to reduce American life expectancy.

    he average life expectancy in the United States has been on a decline since 2014. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cites three main reasons: a 72% increase in overdoses in the last decade (including a 30% increase in opioid overdoses from July 2016 to September 2017, but did not differentiate between accidental overdose with a legal prescription and overdose with opioids obtained illegally and/or combined with illegal drugs i.e., heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, etc.), a ten-year increase in liver disease (the rate for men age 25 to 34 increased by 8% per year; for women, by 11% per year), and a 33% increase in suicide rates since 1999.[44]

    From 2019 to 2020, the COVID-19 pandemic contributed to approximately 74% of the decrease in life expectancy in the United States.[45]

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  48. Earth to Jimbo: Trump is the Republican Party. He is the United States; bold, brash, bombastic, a showman, proud- sometimes bullying- but always America first… it’s populism, Jimbo

    See what I mean? DCSCA is clearly in love with Trump.

    It’s super funny, because DCSCA likes to refer to the Catholic and Mormon churches as cults, unaware that he’s in one himself.

    norcal (da5491)

  49. 43… what a load of BS.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  50. It’s funny too because we all know that if he was a Democratic president who did the very same thing, there wouldn’t be this circling of the wagons to protect him and frankly, infantilizing him and giving him cover.
    Dana (1225fc) — 7/27/2022 @ 3:11 pm

    yes, well thank heavens there are people here in this blog comment section that are calling out trump

    cuz, nobody else is doing it

    and if a democrat did crap? if??

    take a look around you, I mean beyond the wagons

    JF (984969)

  51. “Also, you wouldn’t be attacking those who write about the situation and try to keep abreast of exactly how much damage he wrought and with what level of threat he continues to be to the country.”

    My chief concern currently is the situation we’ve got custom built for us by the Democrats and Joe Biden. I don’t think it’s in the best interest of the USA to dwell on the past, when the current administration is apparently Hellbent on destroying our future.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  52. Crush these mooks in November 2022 and again in 2024!

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  53. norcal pontificates like jim jones

    mg (8cbc69)

  54. norcal pontificates like jim jones

    mg (8cbc69) — 7/27/2022 @ 5:29 pm

    Says one who has fallen for a cult leader, and can’t get up.

    I do give you credit for two religious references in five words. 😉

    norcal (da5491)

  55. @48. No, norcal; the Republican Party is. He is born and nurtured of Reagan’s go-go 80s; he is the GOP’s Frankenstein. “He is you.”

    DCSCA likes to refer to the Catholic and Mormon churches as cults,

    Certainly Cultish. Don’t feel guilty; pick a planet and deal with it. 😉

    DCSCA (9798fb)

  56. Hey, DCSCA, the point called. He misses you.

    norcal (da5491)

  57. The cult leaders are McConnell and the Romneycrats.

    mg (8cbc69)

  58. @56. From which planet? 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVcYND6TwOg&t=2s

    DCSCA (9798fb)

  59. You braindead republicans could run The Almighty Father and still lose. The uni-party will see to that. 81 million lol.

    mg (8cbc69)

  60. Joe tells Nancy, don’t go to Taiwan just now. “I trust his judgement,” said Nancy.

    Just not this time, eh, Miss Floppy Disks of 1982?

    DCSCA (9798fb)

  61. and the border is secure

    mg (8cbc69)

  62. Some of us can remember there were several Democrats in Jan 2017 who tried to overturn a free and fair election… the insurrectionists included Reps Jamie Raskin, Pramila Jayapal, Barbara Lee, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Maxine Waters, Jim McGovern… there were others…

    Then, based on no evidence, Nancy Pelosi promoted the conspiracy theory that the 2016 election had been “hijacked by a foreign hostile government”, namely Russia. Then – on January 13, 2017 – Democrat John Lewis declared that Donald Trump was “not the legitimate president”.

    Then, on Inauguration Day, Democrat operatives descended on DC. Hundreds of rioters committed vandalism, overturned cars. Six police officers were seriously injured by the rioters, who threw bricks and trash cans. 200 of Pelosi’s forces were arrested. It took 5,000 National Guardsmen to quell the violence.

    This was just the first of many riots the Democrat Party encouraged during Trump’s administration.

    Perhaps some of you NeverTrumperellas just don’t understand the complexities of this struggle.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  63. h/t Tucker Carlson.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  64. @62 Those riots were also deplorable.

    norcal (da5491)

  65. Ehh, DLC redux. Needs to be a Kempian McConnell breakout as well, but the War Between the States soured us in 4 party general elections.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-former-republicans-democrats-form-new-third-us-political-party-2022-07-27/

    urbanleftbehind (75b4ce)

  66. The DOJ’s response was no response… no investigations opened up on any of these miscreants.

    Shocka!

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  67. Deplorable? Maybe to some, but it did not appear to trouble any of those public “servants” responsible for upholding the Rule of Law.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  68. Garland:”any attempt to interfere with the lawful transfer of power from one administration to another”, sounds overly broad and authoritarian.

    steveg (90146f)

  69. @68 I’d say it’s authoritarian for a defeated president to “attempt to interfere with the lawful transfer of power from one administration to another”.

    YMMV.

    norcal (da5491)

  70. Leave It to Beaver’ co-star Tony Dow dead at 77, a day after premature announcement

    Nothing like getting ahead of the curve, and getting the bad news out first.

    Rip Murdock (018103)

  71. Some of us can remember there were several Democrats in Jan 2017 who tried to overturn a free and fair election… the insurrectionists included Reps Jamie Raskin, Pramila Jayapal, Barbara Lee, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Maxine Waters, Jim McGovern… there were others…

    Horseshit.

    Patterico (d5c883)

  72. It takes a true hack to compare the two. Fortunate that you are here to be that hack.

    Patterico (927308)

  73. You have a good night! Be well.

    Colonel Haiku (159f8d)

  74. 65- LIV has a better chance to make it.

    mg (8cbc69)

  75. Puplic servants upholding the rule of law are scared schifless of the Democrats.

    mg (8cbc69)

  76. You have a good night! Be well.

    If you tell me you opposed Bill Clinton’s impeachment as an effort to undo a free and fair election, I’ll take it back. Otherwise, your inability to distinguish between trying to steal an election and a legitimate impeachment process, which Clinton’s and Trump’s were, is the result of your hackery. You have no consistent principle other than “my side is always right.” Do you think that is a principle deserving of respect? Because it’s not. It’s worthy of nothing but contempt and mockery.

    Patterico (514a6f)

  77. There’s no equivalency like a bogus equivalency, Haiku.
    Hillary conceded the next day, she acknowledged that Trump won a constitutional majority, she mounted zero legal challenges in the aftermath of the 2016 election, she did not launch an effort to create a fraudulent second slate of Electors, she did not seek out sketchy legal counsel to write a sketchy legal theory to persuade VP Biden to reject slates of Electors, she did not invite her most rabid followers to march on the Capitol on one of the most vulnerable dates of our democracy. Hillary actually did do was grouse and complain like the grousing complainer she is.
    Putin actually did mount a “sweeping and systematic” cyber and propaganda attack on the United States of America, influencing an untold number of Americans against Hillary and for Trump. It’s possible that his attack altered the outcome, but could not be proved one way or the other.
    Did Democrats object in prior elections? Yes, and the objectors were the most partisan left-wingers in their caucuses and they were wrong to do that, but the difference is the sheer numbers, with 147 Republicans being wrong in 2021, all in servitude to Trump’s Big Lie. But even in 2000, when victory was decided in one state by a margin of hundreds of votes, you didn’t see Al Gore squawking about “massive fraud” or that his election was “stolen”. He took his loss like a man, not like Trump.
    In short, Tucker is full of sh-t, as are his followers who parrot his rank dishonesty.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  78. @79, It’s likely that Haiku is just trolling, but it’s concerning that so many Republicans draw these false equivalencies in an attempt to excuse what amounts to a tantrum and sedition. It’s time for people to move on and cultivate a new champion that doesn’t have Trump’s baggage.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  79. Paul,

    Hillary bitterly contested the election to this very day she says it was stolen. She contested Obamas victories filed lawsuits in the 2008 campaign. Hillary, Donna Brasile, Bob Bechle, Schumer, Pelosi openly tried to recruit by bribery, or whatever means to have electors defect in 2000.

    This isn’t justification for the complete asshattery that permeates this alternate electors nonsense that these lawyers cooked up in Georgia.
    However fake slates are not new just in this case One side did it quietly, one side did it openly, loudly, with more cow bell

    EPWJ (89cf50)

  80. There are two angles of investigation by DOJ that we have been told could lead to Trump.

    One id the idea of Trump instigating the assault of the Capitol. Highly improbable. not only because there is nothing so far that shows any indication of this, but because the riot went contrary to his plans, and finally because he wanted to go there and either the idea of him leading the charge or wanting to watch it in person is pretty preposterous. Trump probably did have contact, more likely indirectly than directly with people who wanted this, but the most reasonable explanation is that he was roped into contributing to this. (create an unnecessary crucial vote in Congress, based on lies; invite people to Washington DC, and use the word “wild” in describing the rally)

    The other angle is the False electors scheme.

    Andrew McCarthy wrote something about this:

    https://nypost.com/2022/07/27/democrats-are-pressuring-merrick-garland-to-make-an-anti-trump-case

    Key part about the possible case:

    ….Democrats have swallowed whole the notion that Eastman and Clark were complicit in criminal fraud schemes — the theme of the committee sessions that took place at virtually the same time as execution of the search warrants.

    Garland, a distinguished federal appellate judge for more than two decades before becoming AG, must be torn. He knows Eastman and Clark are not criminals. They are attorneys who devised cockamamie legal theories that had no chance of success.

    Eastman exploited ambiguities in 19th-century election law to spin a yarn that the vice president might be able to exclude state-certified electoral votes based on speculative vote-fraud suspicions. Clark surmised that even though the Justice Department had found no evidence of widespread vote fraud, the fact that it was still investigating and that Trump’s campaign was claiming other election irregularities (noncompliance with state law) could be used to nudge contested states into auditing their elections — perhaps persuading Republican-controlled state legislatures to substitute their preference (presumably Trump) for the voters’ (Joe Biden).

    These theories were frivolous. They also lacked political support in Congress and the relevant states. If there had been no Capitol riot, they’d have been laughed off — much the way we now roll our eyes at baseless efforts by Jan. 6 committee members Bennie Thompson and Jamie Raskin to exclude electoral votes for, respectively, Presidents George W. Bush (in 2004) and Trump (in 2016).

    Obviously, the riot was a disgrace. Unfortunately, it has also become DOJ’s prism for evaluating both forcible attacks and nonviolent legal brainstorming. Garland must know the two must be separated.

    Anyone who was willfully complicit in the use of force at the Capitol — who intended a lethal riot to happen and abetted it — should be prosecuted. But frivolous legal theories are not crimes. Sure, condemn them for being irresponsibly stupid. They’re not felonies, though — if they were, a lot of lawyers would be doing a lot of jail time.

    Alas, the Democratic base wants to criminalize them. So the Justice Department is panicking. Garland knows that prosecuting Trump and such underlings as Eastman and Clark on flimsy grounds would rip the country apart….

    He thinks that the show of force in the search warrants (and I suppose you could include the leaks) is an attempt to appease the left wing of the Democratic Party, but the problem for Garland is this just whets the appetite for a prosecution of Trump, and there is a history in tis administration of the left testing its terrible ideas, so it might happen..

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  81. By violating his legal duty to do what he could to end the unlawful occupation of the Capitol, Trump became an accomplice to that crime.

    I don’t think it works that way, or over 300 policemen in Uvalde, Texas could ne indicted for murder. Besides, what was Trump’s legal duty? You can;t compare this to a parent or toa policeman who deliberately absents himself fromthe scne of the crime.

    Even if his direction to march to the Capitol and “fight like hell” was not intended to start a riot, it led to violence and placed the Vice President and members of Congress in peril. A person who creates a physical danger—even innocently—has a legal duty to take reasonable measures to prevent injury from occurring. Someone who’s started a fire can’t just let it burn out of control.

    The speech had nothing to do with what happened. Merely assembling the crowd — there has to be anexus between a person’s actions and what resulted. Maybe you could stretch it to civil liability, which is present evenwhen there is stupdity or negligence.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  82. he sent his “will be wild” tweet on December 19 at 1:42am. The evidence presented made clear that the far-right militia and other figures understood that tweet as a call to violence.

    But did Trump?

    It’s cryptic, you know.

    The question is who supplied the word “wild?”

    If Trump knew what was intended, then that would be what you should rest your case on. If he didn’t know the secret meaning, it’s nothing. and you don’t need anything that attempts to argue its natural meaning.

    I suspect Trump bungled what some people wanted him to say because he didn’t understand why the word wild was in there, and what he was supposed to tweet.

    Shortly after Trump left that tweet (which also claimed the election was stolen, claimed it was statistically impossible for the election not to have been stolen, and linked to a report by Peter Navarro) Ali Alexander set up this website:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20201223062953/http://wildprotest.com

    There is no call for violence there – but the word “wild” in retrospect indicates a hidden meaning – probably hidden from Trump as well.

    Note that at the time (Dec 23 wen this archive was made) there was only the rally at the Capitol. The January 5 event and the rally at the Ellipse was added later, as late as January 4.

    .f

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  83. Hillary bitterly contested the election to this very day she says it was stolen.

    She whined about it, EPJW, but unlike the one-term loser after his loss, she took no action to contest her defeat.
    I have no recollection of Hillary filing lawsuits contesting Obama’s primary victories. Do you have a cite?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  84. [Hillary Clinton] took no action to contest her defeat [in 2016].

    What she did do, quietly, is promote the idea that Electors would vote for people other than who they were pledged to.

    She also hid behind Jill Stein’s contesting results in Wisconsin.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)


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