Patterico's Pontifications

7/25/2022

GOP Representative Says Republicans Should Be Making the Party One of Christian Nationalism

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:39 pm



[guest post by Dana]

[Pressed for time so I’m going to do this quick post for you to chew on.]

Checking in with today’s Republican Party this weekend:

The Republican Party’s primary focus this year should be on making the political party one of Christian nationalism, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) said Saturday.

“We need to be the party of nationalism and I’m a Christian, and I say it proudly, we should be Christian nationalists,” [Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene] said in an interview with the conservative Next News Network while attending the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit in Florida.

…Greene said the Republican Party should conform to Christianity to make it easier to identify with and sway Christian voters.

“When Republicans learn to represent most of the people that vote for them, then we will be the party that continues to grow without having to chase down certain identities or chase down certain segments of people,” she said. “We just need to represent Americans and most Americans, no matter how they vote, really care about the same things and I want to see Republicans actually do their job.”

Also zeroing in on the theme of Christian nationalism at the Turning Point event was none other than Donald Trump:

Former President Donald Trump said during a speech on Saturday that “Americans kneel to God” alone, as the concept of Christian nationalism continues to gain traction among conservatives.

[…]

“We will not break, we will not yield, we will never give in, we will never give up, we will never, ever, ever back down. As long as we are confident and united, the tyrants we are fighting do not stand a chance,” Trump said. “Because we are Americans and Americans kneel to God, and God alone.”

Last year David French presented a compare and contrast of Christian nationalism vs. Christian patriotism:

I love this country, but I love it with eyes wide open. The aspirations of our founding have long been tempered by the brutal realities of our fallen nature. The same nation that stormed Normandy’s beaches to destroy a fascist empire simultaneously sustained a segregationist regime within its own borders. Our virtues do not negate our vices, and our vices do not negate our virtues. America isn’t 1619 or 1776. It’s 1619 and 1776.

What is Christian nationalism? It’s a deep emotional attachment to a particular and exclusive culture, a skewed version of history, and a false sense of “marked superiority” that must and will fade away.

What is Christian patriotism? To echo C.S. Lewis and George Washington, it’s a love of home and place and neighbor that does its best to fulfill the vision of peace and justice articulated by the prophet Micah so many long years ago—“Everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid.”

Anyway, this is where things currently stand in at least one wing of the GOP. Hopefully, this dangerous rhetoric will be shut down by party leadership and the party at large, but if Trump is still the de facto leader of the party, then we know there will be no cleanup on the right side of the aisle.

–Dana

93 Responses to “GOP Representative Says Republicans Should Be Making the Party One of Christian Nationalism”

  1. Where the hell did these people come from? And why are there so many people who buy into this bullshit? Enough already.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Where the hell did these people come from?

    Are you kidding?!?!—

    “The Moral Majority became one of the largest political lobby groups for evangelical Christians in the United States during the 1980s. According to Jerry Falwell’s self-published autobiography, the Moral Majority was promoted as being “pro-life, pro-traditional family, pro-moral, and pro-American” and was credited with delivering two thirds of the white evangelical vote to Ronald Reagan during the 1980 presidential election. According to Jimmy Carter, “that autumn [1980] a group headed by Jerry Falwell purchased $10 million in commercials on southern radio and TV to brand me as a traitor to the South and no longer a Christian.” During his time as head of the Moral Majority, Falwell consistently pushed for Republican candidates and for conservative politics. This led Billy Graham to criticize him for “sermonizing” about political issues that lacked a moral element. Graham later stated at the time of Falwell’s death, “We did not always agree on everything, but I knew him to be a man of God. His accomplishments went beyond most clergy of his generation.” -source, ResidualReaganwreckage.org

    DCSCA (c37066)

  3. Where the hell did these people come from? And why are there so many people who buy into this bullsh-t? Enough already.
    Dana (1225fc) — 7/25/2022 @ 6:40 pm

    Trump said nothing about Christian nationalism. Zilch. The report strains to make the connection, as they always do, and it’s comical how it’s swallowed whole.

    Dubya would end every speech with “God Bless America”, so I guess he’s on board with it too.

    Beats me why so many people are buying into this bullsh-t. It’s a fair question, but I think we’re talking about different bullsh-t.

    JF (90e807)

  4. She says a lot of things. The GOP would be well advised to move for her expulsion, but they’d lose mg’s vote.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  5. This isn’t the Moral Majority. Even the name suggests they were pluralists, and Reagan was all about the Big Tent.

    This is closer to Heinlein’s Nehemiah Scudder and theocracy.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  6. By the time 2024 rolls around, and probably much sooner, Trump will be indicted, and then pardoned with the proviso that he leave politics.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  7. the media strains to link every republican to the most extreme wing of the party, and simultaneously strains to cordon off every democrat from its most extreme wing

    and they know many people will buy into this nonsense

    JF (a6d404)

  8. I have to agree with JF here. But MTG and such do strive for the headlines.

    I see that Lauren Boebert has a new book out (My American Life). I’ll wait for the manga.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  9. @5. This isn’t the Moral Majority

    Except it is; where do you think ‘these people’ were seeded from– the freak show in ‘the Big Tent’ just as Trump was frankensteined from the Reagan 80’s as well.

    “They are you.” Deal with it.

    DCSCA (ba2541)

  10. the media strains to link every republican to the most extreme wing of the party
    doersn’t take much— all they have to do is open their mouths– and if they step on a land mine– try to “walk” it back or spin it as something different than what it is. Don’t blame the messengers.

    DCSCA (ba2541)

  11. “Because we are Americans and Americans kneel to God, and God alone.”

    Saying that Americans kneel to God and God alone is not the same as saying a general God bless America.

    Dana (1225fc)

  12. Saying that Americans kneel to God and God alone is not the same as saying a general God bless America.
    Dana (1225fc) — 7/25/2022 @ 8:30 pm

    nor is it the same as Christian nationalism

    JF (a6d404)

  13. Christianity created the society we live in. Abandoning it created the Soviet Union and other socialist nations. Turning your back on God has disastrous consequences for all.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  14. Where did these people come from asks the ignorant conservative! I thought conservatives were supposed to be smart. For the umpteenth time They came from nixon’s southern strategy trading abraham lincoln and black voters for strom thurmond and his ignorant southern white trash voters. Reagan’s first speech after he got the republican nomination in1980 was in philadelphia mississippi where the 3 civil rights workers were murdered welcomeing the ignorant southern white trash democrat populists into the republican party. The bush’es and romney tried to hold the tiger by the tail ‘but it ate jeb bush in 2016. Trump realized that populists in the south and mid-west had the votes while the conservative establishmnet had money to control the party and push un-populist agenda like free trade and immigration with neo-cons pushing un-popular wars around the world which were being fought by the poor not the draft dodging neo-con artists. Economic libertarian conservatism of milton friedman and reagonomics was destroying the working class for the benefit of the donor class. So the answer to where they came from is white christian populism of the south and midwest. Only in the west are conservatives and populists still fighting it out like the AZ gov. race. with drag queens appearing in anti-kerry lake commercials.

    asset (d08c34)

  15. @13 stalin came from a seminary and used what he learned their. Communism is christianity applied to economics while capitalism is the theory of evolution applied to economics. Ever here of economic darwinism or ceative economic destruction. Survival of the fit is capitalism personified.

    asset (d08c34)

  16. Oh calm down, asset @ 14. For godsake, it was a rhetorical question.

    Dana (1225fc)

  17. Let me see they want to destroy us.
    Destroy farms.
    Destroy our Children and pervert them.
    Destroy God ha ha bad luck with that.
    Ship our jobs to our enemies like the ccp.
    In prison us on made up charges but release, murderers, pimps, anybody that hates this country.
    and you’re wondering why there’s no money for you.
    here’s your answer FU you gop

    mg (8cbc69)

  18. And poor Kim Kardashian poses in a crotchless leotard (NSFW) and doesn’t get a fraction of the attention.

    nk (8c667e)

  19. Where the hell did these people come from?

    There may have been, somewhere, some time in history, a politician who was not a “person of negotiable affection”, but you will not find one in the Trump stable.

    And why are there so many people who buy into this bullshi[]?

    The best paid members of the oldest profession are the ones best able to disguise the commercial nature of the relationship.

    nk (8c667e)

  20. How Christian is it to continually lie about election results and purposefully enrage people to act badly? Both sides.

    How Christian is it to literally hate your neighbor and exaggerate political differences?

    How Christian is it to hyper focus on matters of Caesar rather than matters of God?

    How Christian is it to impose a certain flavor of Christianity or certain beliefs of Christianity on others through government coercion?

    How Christian is it to hyper focus on political gamesmanship rather than welcoming strangers, feeding the hungry, and visiting those in prison?

    How Christian is it to lose all compassion and kindness and be as cruel and heartless as possible?

    It’s not that Christianity should not inform and guide political positions. It’s that many of those promoting Christian Nationalism don’t seem to really take to heart many of the central tenets of Christianity. It’s just one more tool to manipulate people to get and keep power. Beware

    AJ_Liberty (7505b1)

  21. This is what MAGA has been advocating all along. That the USA be an openly ethno nationalist state and use government power to drive the associated cultural changes. It’s not everyone in the GOP, but this is bread and butter for MAGA. You won’t find anyone from within that coalition pushing back on MTG on this.

    Time123 (f7af20)

  22. This latest strengthens my argument that the best thing MTG could do . . . . is mud wrestle AOC for charity. As I understand it, you need a sleazy guy or two to emcee such events, and fortunately, there are two available, those old friends, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  23. That the USA be an openly ethno nationalist state and use government power to drive the associated cultural changes

    This isn’t any different from the ethno-liberationist movements of the late 60s-early 70s, or what the “anti-racist” (read, anti-white) and queer movements have pushed since the mid-2000s.

    This is what the culture war’s about everyone, even if you continually deny it while it stares you in the face. The left acts in extreme ways, and the right reacts with equal or greater fervor. It’s been going on since the 60s.

    Don’t like it? Nip the extremism of the left in the bud and you won’t get the reaction.

    That’s the reality. Deal with it, or continue to bellyache uselessly about the lack of comity despite the cultural consensus having long ago been blown to smithereens while you and your parents stood by and let it happen because you were too afraid of getting yelled at.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  24. To me, the most nauseating thing about MAGAworld is the embrace of a faux Christianity that characterizes so much of it. And it had its defining moment when, in a place conveniently cleansed of non-violent protesters, Donald Trump held up a Bible, a book of whose contents he is so obviously ignorant. When asked for his favorite Bible verse, he famously answered “An eye for an eye,” apparently unaware (or not caring) that Jesus cited that as something His teachings superseded.

    Roger (17a3ee)

  25. Christians! Heh! Even in Establishmentarian England, with the Crown as the head of the Church, all the denominations MTG represents, while tolerated, were (still are?) labeled as Non-Conformist. But like I said above….

    nk (ecf959)

  26. FWO, I reject the idea that either the left or the right gets to use the government to force their cultural priorities. I’m not going to vote for a big government lib or a big government conservative.

    So far the left has been kicking the Christian Nationalists buts without that stick. Normalizing further intrusion of the government into our private lives makes that worse, not better.

    Please try to keep in mind that there are a lot of people in the gap between your position in Ilahm Omars.

    Time123 (d3da35)

  27. Roger, when they talk about Christianity they’re not talking about Christian values.

    Time123 (d3da35)

  28. FWO, I reject the idea that either the left or the right gets to use the government to force their cultural priorities.

    A government always forces their cultural priorities. ALWAYS. There’s no such thing as a culture-free government.

    So far the left has been kicking the Christian Nationalists buts without that stick.

    Please. The left uses all kinds of sticks, from the courts to “civil rights commissions” packed with partisan leftists who seek to punish the right for not going along with their ideology. And the reason they were able to do so is because the neocons declared a full-on retreat in the 90s and 2000s.

    Normalizing further intrusion of the government into our private lives makes that worse, not better.

    When the left stops doing that, then the right will, too. But the left doesn’t, so the right is going to push back.

    Please try to keep in mind that there are a lot of people in the gap between your position in Ilahm Omars.

    Time123 (d3da35) — 7/26/2022 @ 5:57 am

    Which isn’t particularly relevant because the fight is ultimately determined by the margins who are invested in the conflict, not the middle. The middle just goes along with whomever the winner happens to be.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  29. nixon’s southern strategy

    It is the umpteenth time, and still wrong. Nixon was a liberal. The reason the Left hated Nixon so was that he triangulated the Democrat Party and implemented Johnson’s Great Society. This is also the reason the Right hated Nixon so. The Libertarian Party was formed in reaction to Nixon’s wage and price controls.

    The Left loves its “southern strategy” meme as it means they don’t have to talk about 100 years of Democrat oppression of black Americans nor the continued opposition to Jim Crow by the GOP. All neatly memory-holed by Nixon’s attempt to co-opt the Old South. Which didn’t work, by the way. The South tilted GOP, but the Strom Thrumonds were few and far between, and the Democrats still had quite a few racist Senators in 1973:

    Sam Ervin, James Eastland, John Stennis, William Fulbright, John Sparkman, Russell Long, Herman Talmadge, Robert Byrd, Harry Byrd, Ernest Hollings, and James Allen.

    Against that you have Strom and Jesse Helms for the GOP, but the “Southern Strategy” meme is a dog that won’t hunt.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  30. On a related note, Dana, and since you already referenced French, “Trump discipled the church more than the church discipled Trump.”
    I continue to not believe that Trump is a Christ follower, despite his October 2020 claim that he’s a “non-denominational Christian”, not when he hasn’t even read the book, not when he held the Holy Bible as it were a foreign object in front of a church across from the White House.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  31. We are more likely to kneel before Zod, than God.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  32. not when he held the Holy Bible as it were a foreign object in front of a church across from the White House.

    I was surprised he didn’t wear oven mitts.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  33. I’m not planning to go along with either.

    If you want to have a civil rights commission about the rights of Christian’s being violated go for it. That’s a legitimate government action. As are lawsuits about Christian’s being fired for their religion or straight men being discriminated against because they’re married to women.

    Time123 (d3da35)

  34. Do the Alitos dance tonight?

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/26/politics/supreme-court-john-roberts-abortion-dobbs/

    CNN does not say this was a right wing leak but does claim the right wing benefitted from it. It also does not point a finger at the leaker, which makes me suspect the leaker is a source for CNN.

    Appalled (5eb56b)

  35. The Marxists may be right about “reaction” as far as it occurs in their revolutionary sh!tholes, but I disagree that that is what we see in America. I’m more inclined towards Nietzsche’s ressentiment. Differing, self-perceived, underprivileged with differing targets and differing conduits for their disaffection.

    nk (fd0427)

  36. Time123,

    How’s that working in Colorado?

    NJRob (3ea1ea)

  37. 33–Is this response the administrative equivalent of “make your own social media site”?

    It’s a bit rich to complain about the possibility of the right adopting the left’s house rules, then responding with this kind of remark when they actually make moves to do so. Because as the left continually demonstrates, they loathe not being allowed to operate under the double standard they apply for themselves.

    Factory Working Orphan (1aad95)

  38. Now, having said what I said, I definitely do want “the left” to live and prosper as MAGA’s target. Because, as we saw on January 6, 2021, their Orange Leader’s source of disaffection and target was our nation itself, our form of government, our laws and institutions.

    nk (fd0427)

  39. “Please try to keep in mind that there are a lot of people in the gap between your position in Ilahm Omars.”

    Is there no one left to fight for her honor?

    Colonel Haiku (5be2aa)

  40. Q: what are a thousand lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

    A: A great start!

    Colonel Haiku (5be2aa)

  41. 31, I almost forgot that you are from “Lowse An-Ga Leez”: https://youtu.be/GHImuQp-xoE

    urbanleftbehind (a5f54d)

  42. FWO, No. It’s my agreement that government defending individual rights is a proper use of state power. But that’s not what I see MAGA advocating. I see them advocating things like using state power to punish people and groups for speech they disagree with, such as the FL GOP did with Disney recently.

    Time123 (d3da35)

  43. Rob, Pretty well, if not perfectly.

    Time123 (d3da35)

  44. Christianity created the society we live in. Abandoning it created the Soviet Union and other socialist nations. Turning your back on God has disastrous consequences for all.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/25/2022 @ 10:12 pm

    And Jews fit in where?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  45. Rip, I think the so long as everyone who isnt a white Christian male shows proper difference and gratitude at being here, doesn’t criticize those that built the country and isnt too uppity there should be no problem.

    Time123 (d3da35)

  46. R.I.P. Tony Dow

    “Golly,” said The Beaver.

    DCSCA (ecc6ec)

  47. First Lumpy… then Eddie… and now Wally…

    Beaverwatch 2022

    Colonel Haiku (98430c)

  48. @29. Nixon at 100: Was He ‘America’s Last Liberal’?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/01/nixon-100-was-he-americas-last-liberal-john-fund/

    “In private, Nixon was scathing about conservatives ranging from Ronald Reagan (he considered him a showy “know-nothing”) to William F. Buckley Jr., the founder of National Review. John C. Whitaker, a top Nixon aide, wrote in Presidential Studies Quarterly that he sat with Nixon on a plane the day after Buckley lost the 1965 race for mayor of New York to liberal Republican John Lindsay.

    “The trouble with far-right conservatives like Buckley,” Nixon told Whitaker, “is that they really don’t give a damn about people and the voters sense that. Yet any Republican presidential candidate can’t stray too far from the right-wingers because they can dominate a primary and are even more important in close general elections. Remember, John,” Nixon lectured, “the far-right kooks are just like the nuts on the left, they’re door-bell ringers and balloon blowers, but they turn out to vote. There is only one thing as bad as a far-left liberal and that’s a damn right-wing conservative.” Whitaker wrote that this and other conversations he had with Nixon were indicative of “Nixon’s visceral tilt towards the moderate/liberal side when dealing with domestic legislation, coupled with his respect (maybe fear is a better word) for the political clout of the right wing, so necessary to win national elections…

    In a single day in 1971, Nixon famously imposed wage and price controls in a naïve attempt to curb inflation, ended the U.S.’s last ties to the gold standard, effectively devalued the dollar, and imposed a 10 percent import surcharge. The list of agencies he created from scratch includes the EPA, the Council on Environmental Quality, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. He signed the command-and-control Clean Air Act into law and instituted racial quotas as federal policy. “Incredible but true,” Fortune magazine recalled upon Nixon’s death in 1994. “It was the Nixonites that gave us employment quotas.” As historian Joan Hoff has noted, “Not until the Nixon administration did ‘affirmative action’ begin to become synonymous with ‘civil rights.’”…

    Nixon’s most controversial federal-spending proposal was the Family Assistance Program, which would have guaranteed a minimal annual welfare payment for all Americans below a certain income level. It was blocked by a coalition of conservative Republicans and moderate Democrats in the Senate, but under Nixon spending on Food Stamps increased from $610 million in 1970 to $2.5 billion in 1973. Today, 47 million Americans, or nearly one in six, depend on the program.

    In addition, Nixon created the Supplemental Security Income portion of Social Security, which constitutes a guaranteed annual income for the aged, blind, and disabled and has been a key component in threatening Social Security’s economic sustainability… At best, [Nixon’s is] the record of a progressive Republican who, in the end, didn’t view conservatism as a valid governing philosophy — even though it was the basis of the republic created by the Founding Fathers.” [Except it wasn’t, as the FFs were themselves liberal, political anarchists of their time.]

    DCSCA (ecc6ec)

  49. As I said, he was a liberal and he implemented the Great Society, and the Democrats hated him for it.

    He also set American strategy for winning the Cold War by prying China sway from the Soviets.

    Nixon had a first-class mind, And ten-cent ethics.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  50. And Jews fit in where?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:26 am

    Benefitting from the society Christians with the blessing of God created. You’re welcome.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  51. Rob, Pretty well, if not perfectly.

    Time123 (d3da35) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:23 am

    You would think repeated persecution of a Christian baker is “pretty well.” Thanks for showing where you stand.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  52. @51, I’ve said repeatedly that trying to compel his speech is wrong. He has a right not to like gay people.

    Time123 (dd5c26)

  53. He also set American strategy for winning the Cold War by prying China sway from the Soviets.

    Nixon had a first-class mind, And ten-cent ethics.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 7/26/2022 @ 10:07 am

    I’m not so sure about that.

    I don’t believe it was necessary to pry China away from the Soviet Union to win the Cold War. We would have won it anyway.

    Furthermore, if Nixon had not gone to China, China might still be an economic backwater.

    And finally, Nixon was a fool for signing off on the Shanghai Communique, which stated that Taiwan was a part of China. (Taiwan had always been a place people went to get away from China.)

    norcal (da5491)

  54. Corrected version:

    He also set American strategy for winning the Cold War by prying China sway from the Soviets.

    Nixon had a first-class mind, And ten-cent ethics.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 7/26/2022 @ 10:07 am

    I’m not so sure about that.

    I don’t believe it was necessary to pry China away from the Soviet Union to win the Cold War. We would have won it anyway.

    Furthermore, if Nixon had not gone to China, China might still be an economic backwater.

    And finally, Nixon was a fool for signing off on the Shanghai Communique, which stated that Taiwan was a part of China. (Taiwan had always been a place people went to get away from China.)

    norcal (da5491)

  55. “Benefitting from the society Christians with the blessing of God created. You’re welcome.”

    lmao

    Davethulhu (0b1e86)

  56. @54. I’m not so sure about that. I don’t believe it was necessary to pry China away from the Soviet Union to win the Cold War. We would have won it anyway. Furthermore, if Nixon had not gone to China, China might still be an economic backwater.

    On this Kevin and I agree; The Big Dick was a pretty smart fella. Start by revisiting his book, Six Crises. The Big Dick’s flaws were in personality and criminally weak ethics– the ‘win-at-any-cost’ mind set, which he so clearly revealed in his farewell to staff after resigning:

    “Always give your best, never get discouraged, never be petty; always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don’t win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.” – The Big Dick

    But revisit the context of the times in 1972. Nixon, an ardent ‘pumpkin papers’ anti-communist, goes to Mao’s China as a negotiations wedge w/Brezhnev’s Russia. It was very savvy move at the time. What kept China an economic backwater ‘back in the day’ were its leaders. [Hell, they even denied the Chinese people news coverage of the 1969 moon landing.] That began to change, post Mao. The flaw, long after Nixon left office, into the 80’s and 90’s was the blind belief in West and especially the U.S., that free market capitalism would transform Chinese political mind sets and society. Sell ’em cars, refrigerators– then factories w/open trade and they’ll see life can be ‘Yankee Doodle Dandy.’ You know– Reagannomics. Except it didn’t work out that way, as Tiananmen Square, 1989 demonstrated. Trump remains right about China today. Joe, not so much:

    “As a young member of a Foreign Relations Committee, I wrote and I said and I believed then what I believe now: That a rising China is a positive, positive development, not only for China but for America and the world writ large.” – Joe Biden, May 2011

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4905179/user-clip-biden-believed-rising-china-good-america

    He’s an IDIOT!

    DCSCA (32b816)

  57. norcal (da5491) — 7/26/2022 @ 1:47 pm

    And finally, Nixon was a fool for signing off on the Shanghai Communique, which stated that Taiwan was a part of China. (Taiwan had always been a place people went to get away from China.)

    Carter went further at the beginning of 1979 and switched the status of Taiwan and China, putting the official embassy in Mainland China and the unofficial one in Taiwan. He also tore up the defense treaty with Taiwan.

    Beijing can have only one reason for wanting things this way — so that an invasion of Taiwan would not be considered an invasion of a foreign country and a violation of international law, and that maybe defending it could be considered an intervention in a civil war.

    The whole idea is to stop the United States from defending Taiwan. Now we’re not there yet. But there’s no other purpose for demanding that Taiwan nnot be conskidered an independent country.

    And they don’t like Taiwan because there is a lot of the history of the crimes of the CCP available there, especially before 1949.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  58. @57 That too, Sammy.

    norcal (da5491)

  59. I see them advocating things like using state power to punish people and groups for speech they disagree with, such as the FL GOP did with Disney recently.

    Time123 (d3da35) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:23 am

    If Disney wants to use their corporate power to try and sway political actions, they can reap the consequences when their team isn’t running the show. I’m certainly not going to cry any tears if a woke megacorp like them gets hammered for trying to leverage their media muscle in the service of the Democrat agenda.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  60. @59, this is the state explicitly punishing people for political speech you disagree with…and you’re Ok with it?

    Time123 (bb25e5)

  61. Both the PRC and Taiwan claim to be the true China, and include each others’ territory in that claim, so it is still an unresolved civil war.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. @59, this is the state explicitly punishing people for political speech you disagree with…and you’re Ok with it?

    Time123 (bb25e5) — 7/26/2022 @ 5:11 pm

    Corporations with global reach and a massive bullhorn to push their political agenda aren’t people. Bake shop cakemakers persecuted by the Denver metro gay mafia are.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  63. Corporations with global reach and a massive bullhorn to push their political agenda aren’t people.

    Sadly the law disagrees. Corporate personhood protects the public by allowing them to sue businesses for malfeasance; protects all businesses (large and small) from arbitrary searches and uncompensated seizures, gives them the right to publish newspapers and broadcast; the right to equal protection of the laws; religious rights (Hobby Lobby, for example) including those of churches, which are corporations; and the ability of small business owners to incorporate as limited liability companies to protect their personal assets from seizure in lawsuits.

    But I’m sure you knew that.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  64. @62 the world you desire is a less free and more oppressive one then we currently have.

    Time123 (b612e6)

  65. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/26/2022 @ 6:03 pm

    ” Liberating tolerance, then, would mean intolerance against movements from the Right and toleration of movements from the Left. As to the scope of this tolerance and intolerance: … it would extend to the stage of action as well as of discussion and propaganda, of deed as well as of word.”–Herbert Marcuse

    Like I said, if the left doesn’t like that the right is playing by house rules of double standards they implemented, they can simply stop doing it. They’re going to screech anyway regardless of what the right does, so it’s time they had some of their own “repressive tolerance” shoved down their throat, now that they’re the dominant cultural power within the Cathedral and the right is the counterculture.

    And, to be quite blunt, the only reason Hobby Lobby and Jack Phillips received any kind of justice was due solely to the fact that the courts that ruled in their favor happened to be controlled by conservative-appointed justices–the latter case was especially egregious because even Kagan and Breyer had to concede that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission was hostile to Christians, and that this animus drove their decision-making process. It had absolutely nothing to do with the actual legal merits, because a Democrat-dominated court would have ruled against them–as evidenced by the lower court rulings that brought the cases to the Supreme Court in the first place.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  66. @62 the world you desire is a less free and more oppressive one then we currently have.

    Time123 (b612e6) — 7/26/2022 @ 6:25 pm

    No, it’s simply playing by the rules the left exercises when they hold power, just not in their favor. If they don’t like their own tactics being used against them, they can stop doing it.

    When even liberal college professors and journalists are leaving long-standing institutions due to the repressive tolerance of today’s dominant cultural left, it’s time for some “counterrevolution and revolt” in response.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  67. I don’t even know how to process “Christian nationalism” Greene should push away from the outrage of the day buffet and maybe work on issues and bills that matter

    EPWJ (650a62)

  68. @67. I don’t even know how to process “Christian nationalism”

    Jerry Falwell did. Processed and peddled it like individually wrapped slices of Kraft White American Cheese.

    DCSCA (acf5c0)

  69. Both the PRC and Taiwan claim to be the true China, and include each others’ territory in that claim, so it is still an unresolved civil war.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/26/2022 @ 5:18 pm

    That used to be the case. Taiwan has long since given up any notion of ever governing mainland China. The island did away with legislative “representatives” of various parts of mainland China many years ago. To the extent that this fiction continues to exist (Republic of China name, Nationalist China flag) it is only because changing them would piss off China.

    There are more people in Taiwan who would prefer to be independent than to unite with China, and there are more who would prefer to unite with Japan than there are those who want to unite with China.

    norcal (da5491)

  70. @FWO@65 Health insurance is part of your compensation package. The Hobby Lobby decision lets the corporation you work for disallow you from spending your compensation package on something they disapprove of. Your boss should not be able to tell you how to spend your salary.

    Nic (896fdf)

  71. Your boss should not be able to tell you how to spend your salary.
    Nic (896fdf) — 7/26/2022 @ 8:42 pm

    they don’t

    you have the option of refusing their coverage and use your salary to buy your own

    sounds like you’re not familiar with this

    do you work for the government?

    JF (a6d404)

  72. @71 If you don’t choose the insurance that is subsidized by the employer, do you get a higher salary to purchase insurance that isn’t subsidized?

    norcal (da5491)

  73. @JF@71 For the compensation to be equitable with the other workers then the in-lieu-of would actually be the what it costs the company to buy your insurance, but it isn’t. As it currently exists, if you refuse the insurance, they are requiring you to give up that portion of your salary because of their personal beliefs.

    Nic (896fdf)

  74. That’s what I thought, Nic. Otherwise, it’s just a shell game, and who cares?

    norcal (da5491)

  75. norcal (da5491) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:17 pm

    of course not

    why would the employer incentivize employees to not choose their insurance?

    JF (a6d404)

  76. why would the employer incentivize employees to not choose their insurance?

    JF (a6d404) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:24 pm

    To avoid shoving the employer’s politics down the throat of its employees?

    norcal (da5491)

  77. @JF@75 And so you are OK with your employer telling you how to spend part of your salary? Or with your employer withholding part of it because they don’t agree with your ethics?

    Nic (896fdf)

  78. Nic (896fdf) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:20 pm

    you’re turning the argument on it’s head

    the hobby lobby decision was about the government forcing a private employer into providing insurance coverage contrary to their beliefs

    an employee can refuse the insurance and take the money that would’ve been deducted from their pay and buy their own insurance

    or they can find a different employer

    the employer had no such option

    JF (a6d404)

  79. @JF@78 Why should the employer have any options in how an employee spends their salary? The company isn’t buying the insurance, the employee is.

    Nic (896fdf)

  80. Why would an abortion on demand supporter work for Hobby Lobby in the first place? It would be like me working at a university or NPR.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  81. And so you are OK with your employer telling you how to spend part of your salary? Or with your employer withholding part of it because they don’t agree with your ethics?
    Nic (896fdf) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:29 pm

    are you ok with the government telling you how to run your company?

    the employer is not withholding any part of anyone’s salary, and I think it’s scary how much ignorance is on display regarding basic economics

    do you know employers pay different people different salaries, though they do much the same job? They choose a number that they think will get person A to work for them and it might be more than for person B, and it may have nothing to do with insurance or it might

    if person B doesn’t like it, they go somewhere else. No one needs your or the government’s approval. Really

    i think you would benefit from googling the hobby lobby decision

    JF (a6d404)

  82. The company is subsidizing the insurance plan, so they get to choose which plans to offer. If Hobby Lobby was paying for 8,75 month elective abortions, you certainly wouldn’t be complaining about political double standards.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  83. Why should the employer have any options in how an employee spends their salary? The company isn’t buying the insurance, the employee is.
    Nic (896fdf) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:37 pm

    no, the employer is buying the insurance

    it’s the employer’s insurance, which they are letting employees take part in and pay premiums for or not

    JF (a6d404)

  84. @79. Well, a package w/multiple employees could bring reduced rate/premium offerings from an insurer. So encouraging more employees to join a ‘company plan’ can be beneficial to bothe the company and co-workers.

    DCSCA (3029e8)

  85. To avoid shoving the employer’s politics down the throat of its employees?
    norcal (da5491) — 7/26/2022 @ 9:26 pm

    another government worker, I take it

    let me guess, it’s better to let the government shove its politics down private employers’ throats

    you know, there’s lots of help wanted signs out there

    JF (a6d404)

  86. @FWO@80 I think you are distracted by what the ethical issue might be (it was contraception, not abortion). It could be any issue. Maybe you, as a worker, don’t want to pay for insurance that covers abortion or contraception or sex change services, but right now you my not have any options other than to give up part of your salary if you want to choose different coverage.

    @JF@81 When a company offers health insurance as part of the job, then health insurance is part of an employee’s compensation package, their salary (that’s why job advertisements say things like a position is open for, say $15-$18.00 p/h + full health, dental, vision). If health insurance is an agreed upon part of the salary, then forcing someone to give it up because the company disagrees with the worker’s ethics and not compensating them for it, it is them withholding part of their agreed upon salary.

    Nic (896fdf)

  87. 86–No , I’m not distracted by it, since the issues are linked regardless. And the point stands–why would any left-wing, abortion on demand supporter want to actually work for Hobby Lobby to begin with? The ethical issue doesn’t concern me, because the left doesn’t care about that anyway unless it benefits their side.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  88. Nic (896fdf) — 7/26/2022 @ 10:00 pm

    the employer is not forcing anyone to do anything

    if you can’t grasp this, I can’t help you

    and, you’re not going to believe this, but private employment at places like hobby lobby is not the stuff of collective bargaining agreements

    but go ahead and strike or stage a walk out if you think you’ve been shafted

    JF (a6d404)

  89. @JF@83 You keep saying that I don’t understand how this works, I don’t think I’m the one having trouble understanding. Insurance is part of your compensation package. That’s your money. When a company says that they offer health benefits, what they are saying is that X amount of your money is going to insurance, which benefits you because companies get reduced rates for insurance because the employees are buying in bulk and for older or less healthy workers workers, they can ameliorate the extra use of the health care by the older/less healthy workers across the whole employee base so that younger workers bear some of that cost. Your personal budget line in the company budget is the money you actually get in your paycheck + the money paid to your benefits package.

    @FWO The issues are only linked in your mind (and it was contraception, NOT abortion). It could be any ethics or belief issue. Legal precedent isn’t about issues that are “left” or “right”, they can be applied to both. Freedom of speech protects both Al Sharpton AND Pat Buchannon.

    Nic (896fdf)

  90. Reminder:

    The privately-owned corporation Hobby Lobby, an Oklahoma-based craft store with self-described Christian values, argued that they too should not have to cover certain emergency contraception because of their religious beliefs. The company objected to paying for emergency contraception including Plan B, Ella—both commonly known as the morning after pill—plus two types of IUDs. Hobby Lobby said they believe these types of birth control amount to abortion. The company did not object to covering other types of contraception, including birth control pills.

    Dana (1225fc)

  91. I guess the conversation has drifted a bit away from Christian Nationalism and whether its increasing popularity is at all problematic. This is a bit more than just fighting the culture war. It is weaponizing religion and focusing it on the secular rather than the transcendant. I think the blurring is bad for both religion and politics.

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  92. Sigh. Hobby Lobby was not about wage parity. It was a conflict between two federal laws. The Affordable Care Act and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The RFRA won.

    And don’t make too long a spoke of the corporate stake, either. A central factor was the fact that Hobby Lobby is a closely-held corporation with a couple or three shareholders who are also the officers and directors. A mom-and-pop with more paperwork. More like Walter Elias Disney 1928 than Walt Disney Company DIS(NYSE) 2022.

    nk (2ad0cb)

  93. The Citizens United case, where the Democrats pounced on and seized, not to mention assailed, the technicality that a handful of people incorporated before putting out a mean movie about Hillary, is probably a better First Amendment case regarding corporate speech.

    nk (2ad0cb)

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