Patterico's Pontifications

6/14/2022

The Boiling Frog

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



He called for violence at his rallies! Eh, it’s OK.

He treated the U.S. government like his own personal piggy bank! Eh, it’s OK.

He extorted the president of Ukraine for political favors! Eh, it’s OK.

He refused to accept the results of a fair election! Eh, it’s OK.

He stirred up a mob to invade the Capitol! Eh, it’s OK.

He approved of a mob chanting to kill his Vice President! Eh, it’s OK.

The metaphor of the boiling frog is based on a tale that is not real. A frog placed in water that is gradually heated will jump out before the water reaches the boiling point and kills the frog.

Will we?

222 Responses to “The Boiling Frog”

  1. As one who has already jumped out of the pot, I see that there many issues that lure many people into the pot. some issues they tolerate more than others, so the snare is well constructed and baited. Both major parties have control of the pot with its many types of bait. Only the extremes of both parties – call them single-issue voters – will be jumping in time because all the moderates of both major parties will remain in the pot out of loyalty or – actually I have no idea why, and I have trouble empathizing.

    felipe (484255)

  2. Apologues are helpful. So are idioms. I like out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    frosty (7b4194)

  3. When does the cast of “Hamilton!” take the stage?

    Just execute the SOB and then maybe… JUST MAYBE… we can then address the situation that has been willfully constructed for this country before it disintegrates.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  4. Patterico, I share many of your opinions about DJT. I’m glad you post on it even though some folks go crazy.

    I’m curious who you think should run for POTUS instead of that person. I don’t want him to run. I’m tired of voting Libertarian.

    I’m just curious.

    Simon Jester (3542a6)

  5. Heh, Colonel. If I know what you mean, and I think I do…

    felipe (484255)

  6. Will we?

    Get behind a candidate in the all-important primary, that can take on Trump himself.

    Only person I see that has a chance, is DeSantis.

    Otherwise, resign to the fact that the current malaise is only to worsen.

    whembly (1fe49d)

  7. Good question, Simon. I doubt we little people, of any side, will get much of a choice. I am beyond jaded. Good thing my hope is placed in G*D.

    felipe (484255)

  8. I agree, Whembly.

    felipe (484255)

  9. Impeached. Twice.
    Acquitted. Twice.

    “Cassius was right. ‘The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.’” Edward R. Murrow, CBS News, ‘See It Now’ March 9, 1954

    DCSCA (7eb9c8)

  10. De Santas isn’t running – thats a fact – not an opinion

    He’s been told by family – no

    He’s gaining weight and is in very poor health

    He’s a horrible politician – going from meme to meme (worked for Noem till it didnt)

    He’s financially insolvent

    It will be between Perry, Pompeo, Tim Scott, and the Big Bag Maga Man

    If Trump is behind in the Iowa polls he will drop out

    Then we have three wonderful strong ethical people to pick from

    EPWJ (4f24b3)

  11. # 10 Perry? A first name would be helpful.

    Charlie Davis (6775d5)

  12. Jar Jar: “Impeached. Twice. Acquitted. Twice.”

    It’s good to have co-conspirators on the jury! Cruz and Hawley will definitely see no evil.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  13. De Santas

    Freudian slip?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  14. # 10 – I disagree.

    The whole story that his wife is encouraging him to run smacks to me as a trial run to see how the public responded.

    Interestingly, we didn’t see a Trump obnoxious reaction, and that trial balloon seems to viewed favorably.

    I think he’s running.

    whembly (cfd077)

  15. #11, I’m assuming former Gov Rick Perry….who I’ve heard no buzz about him having any interest. He’s getting a little toothy (74 in 2024)….but he would be a move in the right direction.

    Not sure where there are any concerns about Desantis’ (43yrs) health or finances. Tend to agree about going from meme to meme, though.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  16. # 10 Perry? A first name would be helpful.

    Charlie Davis (6775d5) — 6/14/2022 @ 10:34 am

    Katy Perry.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  17. #11, I’m assuming former Gov Rick Perry….who I’ve heard no buzz about him having any interest. He’s getting a little toothy (74 in 2024)……

    No more presidential candidates older than myself.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  18. # 10 Perry? A first name would be helpful.

    “Oops.”

    =mike-drop= 😉

    DCSCA (85a638)

  19. I’m assuming former Gov Rick Perry…

    Former Trump Energy Secretary Rick Perry, Agarn.

    Why Did Rick Perry Resign?

    “Trump only had good words to say about the soon-to-be-former Energy Secretary.”

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Did-Rick-Perry-Resign.html

    Oops.

    “Agarn, I don’t know why everybody says you’re so dumb.” – Sgt. Morgan O’Rourke [Forrest Tucker] ‘F-Troop’ ABC TV, 1965-67

    DCSCA (85a638)

  20. It will be between Perry, Pompeo, Tim Scott, and the Big Bag Maga Man The Great MAGA King

    EPWJ (4f24b3) — 6/14/2022 @ 10:17 am

    FIFY

    frosty (7b4194)

  21. Consider the impact of that last manufactured crisis detailed in #20…

    Excrement ‘bout to get real yo.

    Colonel Haiku (4eca91)

  22. @20. Worse: a Tampon shortage!

    Yes, There’s a Tampon Shortage: Here’s Why—Plus, 4 Tampon Alternatives to Consider

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/yes-tampon-shortage-why-plus-162300671.html

    [ ] Blame Putin

    [ ] Blame Big Tampon

    [ ] Blame Cher

    Choose, Joey. 😉

    DCSCA (85a638)

  23. It’s The Great ULTRA MAGA King, to be clear.

    Colonel Haiku (4eca91)

  24. Republican men– and their women– prefer Ultra Maga.

    Attaboy, Joey.

    DCSCA (85a638)

  25. The shadow race is underway for the Republican presidential nomination
    ………
    With months to go before the midterm elections, the shadow campaign for the 2024 Republican nomination is well underway, with at least 15 potential candidates traveling the country, drawing up plans, huddling with donors or testing out messages at various levels of preparation. The quadrennial circus — described by more than 20 people with direct knowledge who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private machinations — has kicked into gear despite the public hints from Trump that he too plans to join the scrum “a third time.”
    ……
    “They’re all going to run against him,” said Tony Fabrizio, Trump’s longtime pollster. “If you have the former vice president running, what does that say for the loyalty argument?”
    …….
    At least six senators have made appearances in Iowa or New Hampshire already, joining former Trump advisers and appointees like Pence, former secretary of state Mike Pompeo and former ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley. Nine potential candidates, including former New Jersey governor Chris Christie and Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan, have spoken at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, laying out their vision for the future of the party, with Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.), a prominent Trump critic with a national profile, scheduled to speak there on June 29. …..

    “They are working hard at it, some more than others,” said Ron Kaufman, a Republican National Committee member from Massachusetts, who had a set of potential candidates over to his house in March as part of a fundraiser for the New Hampshire state party. In addition to (Sen. Tom) Cotton, Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), Tim Scott (R-S.C.) and Rick Scott (R-Fla.) spoke at the event.
    ……..
    “I would be very surprised if they run,” Trump said in an interview earlier this year. …..
    ……..
    “As I travel around the country campaigning for other Republican candidates, there is more and more doubt and disinterest regarding the president’s claims the 2020 election was stolen. They care about the issues affecting them,” Christie said in an interview.
    ……..
    DeSantis has been quietly building his fundraising networks while grabbing national headlines for his challenges to the Biden administration and for his focus on culture war issues. …..

    Beating Trump’s 2020 margin of three percentage points in Florida has become a key campaign goal, according to three people familiar with the conversations. They said DeSantis’s wife, Casey, a former television host and among a small circle of confidants, wants him to run for president. The couple believes that the governor’s skills are uniquely matched to the current political climate, and are wary of waiting six years, by which time the tides may have shifted. DeSantis has not indicated if he would defer a campaign if Trump runs.
    …….
    Haley and Pompeo are both doing one-on-one calls with major donors, plugging fundraising committees aimed at boosting candidates in the midterms.
    …….
    Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson, a former homeland security undersecretary, has been among the most diligent potential candidates, planning a trip to New Hampshire, appearing repeatedly on Sunday news talk shows and recently founding a nonprofit, America Strong and Free, to pay staff and fund his policy efforts……
    …….
    Hogan and Christie are also aiming to test the party’s appetite for moving on from Trump, as they have both become frequent critics of his behavior. …..
    ……..

    Related:

    Ready for Ron PAC urges DeSantis to run for president in 2024

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  26. Tomorrow’s most interesting primary: The Trump vs. Haley proxy war in South Carolina
    …….
    …….. I think Nancy Mace is going to beat Trump’s candidate, Katie Arrington, in SC-1. And if that’s not intriguing enough for you, I think she’s going to do it with a major lift from Trump frenemy Nikki Haley.
    …….
    …….Mace has infuriated Trump by what she said, not what she did. Granted, she refused to object to certifying Biden’s electoral votes on January 6, but lots of other Republicans did the same. And after that she behaved more or less like a garden variety Trumper in Congress. She contrived an excuse to vote against impeachment. She didn’t oppose Liz Cheney’s ouster from leadership. She played nice with MAGA.

    But she did make it known at times in her comments that she wasn’t a Trump fan. “I want to be a new voice for the Republican Party. And that’s one of the reasons I’ve spoken out so strongly against the president, against these QAnon conspiracy theorists that led us in a constitutional crisis. It’s just wrong, and we’ve got to put a stop to it,” she said early in her term. On January 7, 2021, she declared that Trump’s “entire legacy was wiped out yesterday.” …….

    ……(Trump) mocked her for her ad in front of Trump Tower at a rally for Arrington in March and has called her “crazy!” “terrible!” and “bad for the Republican Party!” This weekend, he reminded South Carolinians again whom he’s supporting. “Don’t forget that Katie Arrington, a wonderful person, is running against the terrible Nancy Mace, who really let us down,” he said in a statement. “Nancy fights Republicans all the time and is not at all nice about it. Frankly, she is despised by almost everyone, and who needs that in Congress, or in the Republican Party.”
    ……..
    …….Haley endorsed Mace just a few days before Trump endorsed Arrington, which led me to wonder at the time if Haley might lose her nerve again when faced with Trump’s wrath and retract her endorsement. She didn’t. As you can see, not only did she stick with it, she put her own skin in the game here by campaigning side by side with Mace in the campaign’s final days. If Mace pulls this race out, Haley’s going to get some flattering media coverage about her lingering strength in South Carolina, where she was governor for six years, and whether she might have 2024 potential after all.

    …….Two recent polls also point to a Mace victory. One, from Trafalgar, had her leading Arrington by six points. Another from a pro-Mace group had her up 44/24(!!!). I’m skeptical that Mace wins in a landslide, but if she does it would be a special humiliation for Trump, particularly given Haley’s involvement.
    ……..
    But there’s a chance that the lesson (Mace will) take from this is that Trump can’t touch her, especially with Haley in her corner. That’s the lesson he’s afraid of. The more Kemps and Maces there are who cross him and win, the more the rest of the congressional GOP will conclude that they can get away with crossing him too…….
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  27. Trump/Haley or Trump/DeSantis… but DeSantis has some poop in his litter box to clean up. Two Florida guys weights the ticket poorly, too. But given Squinty’s record, it likely won’t matter to a party run by populists now.

    Pompeo is running to- or from- something; his dramatic weight loss suggests a play for more government work (and the bennies such a gig provides) — or an illness. Forget Tedtoo; zero credibility. Cotton is a zealous nutbag– hence, perfect VP material, but doesn’t have Haley’s street cred, gender, ethnicity or good looks.

    DCSCA (85a638)

  28. I think

    [ ] Trump/Supermax

    [ ] Trump/Proud Boys

    [ ] Trump/Bellevue

    [ ] Trump/Bronze box

    Choose Jar-Jar

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  29. I knew what Trump was the day he went down the Golden Escalator and I could never support that, and it’s a taint on the GOP, that it not only nominated him, but is still the leader of the party. I wish I could say goddam our political system for bringing forward such terrible choices, but it was really The People who brought ’em there.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  30. Let DeSantis win relection, contine leading the way in Florida as they show hope to the rest of the nation the way to break free from the fever swamps, then let the 2024 primaries come as they do.

    NJRob (fbe422)

  31. those damn people always disappoint…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. It still remains, why did/does Trump peddle so obviously fabricated election claims when his closest advisors were telling him otherwise? Why would Barr describe him as “detached from reality”? Why does this odd characteristic endear him to so many GOP voters? When precisely would this resistance to sound advice give you concern (if you are one of those enamored)?

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  33. Everyday same thing. Trump bad/evil Trump supporters fools/evil. Everyday why won’t they listen to their betters who are smarter then they are! How many times do they have to tell you. You and me don’t make we. They are ignorant southern white trash former democrats and northern/western republican tea baggers not bush/cheney republicans.

    asset (033c3c)

  34. The 2nd point, and maybe the 3rd point, in Pat’s post are debatable.

    I have seen no charge that Trump pocketed federal money directly. If he directed his subordinates to use his hotel chain it’s venal, but not embezzlement.

    As for the Ukraine thing … this is so wound up with the Hunter Biden sleaze that it’s really hard for me to see exactly who covered who with what flavor of sh1t, and who was using state power to do so.

    The rest of it, sure.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  35. Are we better off than we were 18 months ago? I think that it really doesn’t matter if you’re still wanting to be in the pot — we all still are.

    Focusing on Trump is a distraction (on both sides). The real question is “Who is the person to lead us out of this mess?” It’s not Joe Biden, clearly, and it’s probably not Donald Trump. If all Trump and/or his supporters can concentrate on is how to get their revenge, then it’s really not Donald Trump.

    A smaller example of this issue will be seen in the November elections. If the GOP takes Congress (I think they will) and all they can do is rehash the 2020 election then they won’t hold it for long. If instead they can govern along the lines of the Gingrich Congress of 1996 then maybe. But even that Congress got lost soon enough. If they spend all their time denigrating American elections, well, then they’ve stopped being part of the solution and the GOP needs to be dead.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  36. …..Haley’s street cred, gender, ethnicity or good looks….

    Aside from being the most shallow analysis of someone’s qualifications for President, Darling Nikki (aka Nikki McRomBush) has absolutely no chance of receiving MAGAWorld support. Among other things, they object to leading the charge to remove the Confederate Battle Flag from the statehouse grounds. It’s hard to understand from this where she stood on the issue in 2019. There is also a birther strain in MAGAWorld about her. And then there is Trump’s trenchant observation:

    “Well, every time she criticizes me, she uncriticizes [sic] me about 15 minutes later,” Trump told Vanity Fair. “I guess she gets the base.”

    Haley and hypocrisy have long had a close relationship.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  37. The five most popular governors in the United States are Republicans:

    The top three, Larry Hogan of Maryland, Phil Scott of Vermont, and Charles Baker of Massachusetts, are openly anti-Trump Republicans.

    The fourth, Jim Justice of West Virginia is a moderate Democrat turned Republican for, as far as I can tell, practical political reasons. (He continued to back Democrat Joe Manchin, even after the switch.)

    The fifth, Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas, is considering a run for the presidency — even if Trump runs.

    To me, the popularity of these five tells me something good about American voters. Given good choices, we will often make them — in spite the disruptive efforts of everyone from Tucker Carlson to “Czar” Putin.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  38. There is also a birther strain in MAGAWorld about her

    You misspelled “stain.” Effing racists.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  39. #39 Kevin – Trump did take secret papers from the White House when he left. I think most security people would consider that theft. (I think all or most of them were recovered months later.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  40. If Trump is the nominee, the GOP will be sundered. I don’t think it will happen. If it does it will be because of pledged-delegate rules that make the delegates mere robots unable to use their considerable political judgement. I think that some of our problems of the past 50 years are due to this.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  41. insurrection truthers will have p o the tax-payer because of the economy and the wasted time on this charade, allowing more of a chance for Trump to return.
    IDIOTS.

    mg (8cbc69)

  42. Trump did take secret papers from the White House when he left.

    Not exactly the piggybank. The most likely way to profit off the White House isn’t through embezzlement of the travel agency anyway. It’s insider information. Luckily Trump doesn’t run a hedge fund.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  43. Judging by per capita deaths, Phil Scott did better against COVID than 48 other governors.

    It is true that a rural state like Vermont has advantages against a disease like COVID, but it is also true that there are other rural states that did signficantly worse than Vermont. And since the disease is mostly transmitted indoors, Vermont is at a disadvantage, compared to states with milder climates.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  44. lizzy/mittens/2024

    mg (8cbc69)

  45. There is also a birther strain in MAGAWorld about her.

    Please explain. Is this the old “you can’t be a natural born citizen if your parents weren’t natural born citizens” Catch-22 grandfather clause beloved of Klansmen everywhere?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  46. The most likely way to profit off the White House isn’t through embezzlement of the travel agency anyway. It’s insider information. Luckily Trump doesn’t run a hedge fund.

    I assumed the reference was to the fact that the Trump organization leased the Old Post Office Building (turning it into a Trump hotel) from the federal government, and cashing in when lobbyists and others currying favor from Trump would stay there.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  47. Please explain.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 6/14/2022 @ 2:47 pm

    Yes.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  48. Since I am not a republican, I obviously am not the target audience of the R primary process. However, I think I might be the target audience of the general election process, so here’s my opinion on a possible strategery 😛 and what might work or not work for the Rs in 2024.

    The 2020 election wasn’t a pro-Biden election, it was a an anti-Trump one. If Trump runs again, I think it would still be an anti-Trump election and I think that the pro-Trump side of things maximized their possible voter-turnout in 2020 already and I don’t think they can turn out those numbers again. It feels like people are more exhausted than furious and Trump isn’t going to gain votes from exhausted people.

    So, if I”m right and Trump voters will be less likely to turn out, the Rs are going to need to pick up moderates and non-Trumpers while still retaining Trump voters, which means they have to walk an interesting line. I don’t know that the person who would do that has a high enough profile, but I think they need someone who can say things like, “I share the concerns of the American people, here are where my priorities are. Candidates aren’t the same, even when they share similar beliefs, so obviously I would prioritize some things in a similar way to my opponents and some things differently, here are MY focus areas.” And “While I think some states might’ve legally put their thumb on the scale one way or the other in the last election, I haven’t seen any legally accepted evidence that there were enough irregularities that it would’ve changed the election outcome.” I don’t think this would be a good culture war election because I think it would turn off necessary moderate voters (I don’t think the mid-terms are a good culture war election either, personally, but legislative races are nuts, so who knows).

    Nic (896fdf)

  49. @49 Trump lost by 43,000 votes not 81,000,000 votes az. 10,000 ga. 13,000 wi. 20,000. Trump only lost because republicans passed ballot access laws to keep the libertarian party off the ballot that democrat party used to kick green party off ballot. Trump only won in 2016 because green party took votes from clinton. Example trump wins wi by 22,000 with jill stein green party getting 38,000 votes (2020 no green party on ballot in wi biden wins by 20.000 vote) mi. pa. the same.

    asset (ac6fae)

  50. Wow.

    Trump’s pick for Pa. governor says he sees ‘parallels’ to Hitler’s power grab in Capitol riot
    ……..
    Last week, (Doug) Mastriano live-streamed on Facebook as he was interviewed Friday for the podcast “The World According to Ben Stein.”
    ………
    Stein said the country is getting “more and more into a dictatorship,” and compared Jan. 6 to the 1933 fire on the Reichstag, the legislative branch in Berlin, that Hitler blamed on communists. The Nazis then used the fire as a pretext to suspend civil liberties and assume more power.

    “The Nazis immediately seized upon it [the Reichstag fire] to impose emergency measures,” Stein said. “I think something like this is happening with the Jan. 6 nonevent.”

    Stein called the riot a “ridiculously trivial thing.”

    “It was not an insurrection,” he added. “It was not an attempt to take over the government. It was a demonstration by a group that felt frustration by the statistical impossibility of the vote having gone the way the Democrats said it did.”

    “I agree with the political, with the historic analogy laid out there, so using something that was very suspicious in Berlin to advance their agenda, you know, the national socialists there,” Mastriano said. “I do see parallels.”
    ……….
    “It’s just really heartbreaking watching how quickly our country’s falling down, and that we have people being publicly arrested for show to send a message,” Mastriano said. “I think what we’re seeing in America now makes McCarthy in the ’50s look like an amateur.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  51. Trump was not Mussolini and he was not Ferdinand Marcos. And there was no followup planned to the riot. It did not serve Trump’s purposes.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  52. A J Liberty (411e90) — 6/14/2022 @ 1:55 pm

    It still remains, why did/does Trump peddle so obviously fabricated election claims when his closest advisors were telling him otherwise?

    Would giving them up have offered him any hope of continuing as president? Somebody obviously was telling him there was a way.

    Why would Barr describe him as “detached from reality”?

    He was judging him favorably.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  53. @29. I think…

    Hmmmm; Mister Donald is not POTUS. Mister Donald has not been in office for nearly 18 months… but do look back in anger:

    [ ] Putin’s fault

    [ ] Covid’s fault

    [ ] Global inflation’s fault

    [ ] Big Meat’s fault

    [ ] Big Oil’s fault

    [ ] Big Egg’s fault

    [ ] Big Media’s fault

    [ ] Big Tampon’s fault

    [ ] Baby formula maker’s fault

    [ ] North Korea’s fault

    [ ] Supply chain’s fault

    [ ] Lil’ Zelinsky’s fault

    [ ] Taliban’s fault

    [ ] China’s fault

    [ ] Europe’s fault

    [ ] Afghan’s fault

    [ ] Cher’s fault

    [ ] San Andreas fault

    Choose, Corporal. 😉

    “Who says I’m dumb?!” – Cpl. Randolph Agarn [Larry Storch] ‘F-Troop’ ABC TV, 1965-67

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  54. @51. ROFLMAO Playing the Hitler card– with Ben Stein?

    So he’s still alive? “Wow,” indeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0mQeLWCCo

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  55. Trump could sneak the nomination away from DeSantis merely by remaining (relatively speaking) to DeSantis’ left on social/ftural issues. The Thiel-Grenell-Kirk wing of the party is not going to vocally cry loud about “DSG” but their relative comfort, along with gun controllers with Trump may prove to be margin. Especially if the middle is stuck with drooling Biden or a Squad type as the nominee, and Trump becomes the elder statesman getting Strange New Respect.

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  56. #51, in that same vein, it made even less sense to call Ron DeSantis a “Jewish Nazi”

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  57. In a battle of, at best, future cabinet secretaries under DeSantis or 3rd option, the ghost of Tom Bradley can hand “it” over to Richard Irvin.

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  58. @57. If he runs, Trump will win by simply running this 60 second piece of television as a commercial, and never have to say a word; audio up w/fade in from black; ,simple text tag at end: Trump, 2024. Fade to black.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU6PWT1rVUk

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  59. and never have to say a word

    Impossible.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  60. @60 Nothing is impossible; aside from the ‘I approved this message’ tag. But if you’re better off now than you were 4 years ago, good for you and Hunter and Joey and Jill, Rip.

    DCSCA (5f6a7c)

  61. A plagiarist…beaten by another plagiarist?

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  62. @62. It’s the 2020s, not 1988; plagiarism doesn’t matter anymore- especially to ‘the folks’ who’d get fired for doing it themselves. Because, like inflation, thought theft, wind on the AF 1 stairs, imaginary 18 wheeler driving, $7 gas and thunderstorms — it’s all Putin’s fault.

    DCSCA (5f6a7c)

  63. Biden/Clinton vs. Trump/Haley or Trump/DeSantis.

    Trump luck is in the air. The parties have made it so. Impeached twice; acquitted twice; his endorsement holds GOP cache and he’ll call in the chips if he runs. For the good of the party, Kamala will take the fall and HRC will take the VP spot w/Joe – her last grab at the brass ring, and if Joe wins, slide into the Oval when Joey cashes in his chips and quits the political game– or the game of life, never having to campaign and raise $ or endure primaries. If Joe loses, it’s all on him- the top of the ticket.

    DCSCA (5f6a7c)

  64. This post is pathetic. Damn my left foot for my fingernail. Orange man bad!

    Richard Wetmore (995a5b)

  65. @49:

    Partly. Biden was elected on his campaign theme of “I’m not Trump” but he’s trying to govern on that, too, and it doesn’t work. He (or his successor) can only run on that again if Trump is the candidate, or if they can paint Trump’s successor as Trump II (the Herbert Hoover/Jimmy Carter strategy).

    Biden is doing so poorly that unless he can pull it out (as Reagan did in ’83 and ’84), the Democrats can’t beat anyone (with the possible exception of the Yosemite Sam aspect of Donald Trump). If nothing changes for the better, Biden’s approval rating will soon be lower than Trump’s lowest approval rating (37.5%).

    Part of this is his inability to reach across the aisle (not a strong point of Obama or Trump either, and it hurt both of them, too). But that’s mostly because he MUST to get anything done and he can’t or won’t. Obama at least had 60 votes in the Senate in his first two years.

    If the GOP can get past Donald Trump (e.g he has a stroke or is struck by lightning) the Democrats look pretty hopeless going forward.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  66. Trump only won in 2016 because green party took votes from clinton. Example trump wins wi by 22,000 with jill stein green party getting 38,000 votes (2020 no green party on ballot in wi biden wins by 20.000 vote) mi. pa. the same.

    Nah. I voted Libertarian both times Trump ran. If I hadn’t been able too, I’d have written something in or left it blank. Don’t assume that protest voters will give up their protest just because it’s not “on the ballot.”

    There’s a maxim for these voters that goes “If I vote for one of these two parties, they will assume it’s because I liked what they offer, and will give me more of it. So, I won’t.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  67. Damn my left foot for my fingernail. Orange man bad!

    Orange? Yes.
    Man? Doubtful.
    Bad? Yes.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  68. Republican Mayra Flores wins South Texas House seat long a Democratic stronghold

    The 34th Congressional District race was seen as a gauge of Republicans’ growing popularity in traditionally Democratic South Texas. House Republicans in 2020 did far better than expected with Latino voters there than in previous cycles.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mayra-flores-wins-texas-house-race-republican

    Catch that wave…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_CBWxmTlRI

    DCSCA (5f6a7c)

  69. In three weeks, if the markets keep tanking and people’s savings are half, Trump is going to win, hands down.

    EPWJ (4d46aa)

  70. Trump is delusional and should not be anywhere back near a nuclear button….how many people have to say it?

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  71. It’s still Trump’s party in South Carolina.
    The guy (Rice) who voted to impeach Trump got primaried, and the gal (Mace) who made some disagreeable noises about Trump but ended up sucking up to him won her primary.
    I hate my party.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  72. @Kevin@66 I don’t think Biden is doing much hands-on governing domestically at this point at all. His focus seems to have been on getting the Covid vaccine out, the first infrastructure bill, and on repair of international relationships. The rest he seems to be pretty much leaving to the legislature, which I don’t think is theoretically a bad idea, though most presidents have a hard time doing that. There’s a lot of screaming about the economy and why doesn’t he do something right now, but I’m not really sure what the president can do about this set of economic factors in the short term and do we really want the president mucking things up instead of letting the various factors find their balance again.

    Nic (896fdf)

  73. I hate my party.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/14/2022 @ 8:54 pm

    the “we’re just too good for the voters” catch phrase doesn’t seem to be working

    stick with it, but say it louder

    it’s sure to catch on

    JF (c8dab8)

  74. @73 “I’m not really sure what the president can do”

    funny how the president’s powers change so dramatically in just six months

    Biden Is Trouncing Trump’s Stock Markets Where It Matters

    JF (c8dab8)

  75. @JF@75 I don’t recall touting Biden being responsible for the stock market at that point, either. So no, my opinion of the president’s powers hasn’t changed dramatically or otherwise in the last 6 months.

    Nic (896fdf)

  76. the “we’re just too good for the voters” catch phrase doesn’t seem to be working

    Not quite, but you’re getting what you’re voting for. Good luck with that.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  77. ‘I hate my party.’ Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/14/2022 @ 8:54 pm

    Grouchy, ain’t ‘cha, Paul:

    “I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.” – Groucho Marx, 1951

    DCSCA (76055d)

  78. the gal (Mace) who made some disagreeable noises about Trump but ended up sucking up to him won her primary.

    You could read it that way, or you could read it that she said her piece then shut up. In any event Trump backed a primary challenge, but SC politicians such as Nikki Haley backed Mace. Nikki 1, Trump 0. Take your wins where you find them.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  79. The rest he seems to be pretty much leaving to the legislature

    I could not disagree more. His Build Back Better plan was all his. He was convinced that Obama had screwed the pooch by not going for the fences in 2010 and he wasn’t going to make that mistake. So he tried to bully the legislature into radical change and the Senate stopped him. Which is probably a good thing as his lat “success” — $1.9 trillion in unneeded spending (on top of two previous stimuli) broke the economy’s back. Most states are still trying to figure out what to do with the influx of cash from that one. NM is banking a good deal of it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  80. Biden Is Trouncing Trump’s Stock Markets Where It Matters

    I think Biden should take credit for giving it to those rich people good and hard, and ignore the whining from small investors and retirees.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  81. @81 greed is not good. I have lost about 15%. HoweverI am in prefered stocks and high paying dividend paying stocks that pay between 6% and 12% and average 8% Even if my stocks don’t go back up (unlikely) I will get back all that I have lost in a year and 3/4 quarters. I stayed away from the go go stocks that are now go go gone!

    asset (0a8de7)

  82. Statistically a gun is less likely to be involved in a crime then a U.S. Senator.

    asset (0a8de7)

  83. Nic, Paul, asset, DCSCA – this is/was a thoughtful libertarian/conservative blog, not the daily KOS spewing constantly of things that just are not true.

    Trump – history will show, was a great president, much better than the liberal Reagan (fighting communism isnt conservative its just the right thing to do) heads above anyone since Teddy roosevelt.

    As much cater walling of the most ridiculous depths by some of the contributors , and the constant spammers here in the comment section – it isnt going to change history.

    I think thats whats fueling your anger – like unwashed toddlers screaming and crying the same fully debunked theories and using fictional articles in already disgraced magazines as proof – its hilarious.

    Facts: Trump had huge record breaking rallies one after another after another even after almost dying of covid. He had more by hundreds of thousands of people attending political rallies, his popularity and reach was clearly demonstrated for all to see. Biden couldn’t even get 100 people who were not press or paid college students to attend any of his campaign events.

    People are going to jail (over a dozen already have been convicted in tennessee including two sitting members of the state legislature) – 5 states are in the legal process of decertifying the 2020 election results PA – is announcing next month, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the state attorney general are in the motion of starting a grand jury process which will sweep up several state officials, Arizona and Wisconsin are fighting the democrats in court right now to do the same. Minnesota and Michigan are also fighting internally to keep the election from being questioned and they are running and hiding.

    23 attorney generals signed on to Texas lawsuit that the election was fraudulent – its being reintroduced, btw and will be for decades until the supreme court finally a court finally hears the evidence.

    So spin feel comfy – keep exchanging Taylor Lorentz articles as proof of your angst etc. Trump was great – will still be great, because of his getting rid of regulations, his strong armed foreign policy which saves lives and trillions of dollars. Trump cut corporate taxes for the first time in US history which directly affects everyone’s jobs and savings – no one else did, no one else even tried. And for the first time we have a conservative majority on the supreme court and in over half of the appellate districts. The liberal conservative killing, freedom stifling out of control third branch has been converted and neutralized to back to its intended role, instead of another branch of the democrat party.

    But like I said Daily Kos is for you, not this blog.

    EPWJ (10d551)

  84. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/06/14/exclusive-jim-banks-presses-biden-doj-for-answers-after-blm-rioters-arson-charges-dropped/

    A separate justice system where leftist arsonists get sweetheart deals while the unfavored rot in obscurity.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  85. The BLM rioters have friends who stood by them. The January 6 rioters were tools, failed embarrassments, embarrassing failures and losers, that Trump and his friends wish out of sight and out of mind and did not lift a finger to help because all their loyalty and devotion is to Trump and only to Trump.

    nk (37fc01)

  86. Trump is the dingleberry in Lady Liberty’s under-drawers. I tried, I really tried hard, to picture Patterico’s pot of boiling water analogy, but the closest I can come to is the old days of the boil wash of heavily-soiled clothes before laundry machines and detergents.

    nk (37fc01)

  87. What you have in the GOP right now is a two-front war. One front is to get a Republican Congress and, in two years, a Republican President. The other front is to Make Trump Great Again. Two entirely different objectives, and each a distraction and a diversion of resources from the other.

    The GOP needs to dump Trump. No ifs, buts, or maybes.

    nk (37fc01)

  88. And I agree with Kevin @79. Nancy Mace is another bet Trump lost. Like Kemp and Raffensperger. And it was a bet he had no money on. Only his mouth.

    nk (96a629)

  89. 84… RINOs Inc.®

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  90. nk needs a binky and a diaper change he cant even get his facts straight that Trump supported Mace and thats why she won – he supported both but conceded Mace had the best chance of retaining the seat

    Like I said NK Daily Kos is probably a better blog for you too.

    EPWJ (10d551)

  91. Patterico, I share many of your opinions about DJT. I’m glad you post on it even though some folks go crazy.

    I’m curious who you think should run for POTUS instead of that person. I don’t want him to run. I’m tired of voting Libertarian.

    I’m just curious.

    I don’t like DeSantis. I’d support Glenn Youngkin. He somehow found a way not to piss off the Trump people while sounding like a reasonable person and addressing the issues that matter to his state. Meanwhile DeSantis just positions himself as a supporter of the latest populist pander, whatever it is on any given day — and the stupider the better.

    I might — might! — vote for DeSantis over Trump in a primary. More likely, I’d sit it out. And if DeSantis were the general election candidate, I’d definitely sit it out.

    I’d vote for Glenn Youngkin.

    Patterico (c120d6)

  92. Trump – history will show, was a great president, much better than the liberal Reagan (fighting communism isnt conservative its just the right thing to do) heads above anyone since Teddy roosevelt.

    I remember when this blog didn’t indulge in delusional fantasy.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  93. EPWJ: “Like I said NK Daily Kos is probably a better blog for you too.”

    I’m curious, should patterico (Patrick) go to Daily Kos as well? It’s important to remember that this blog is not Redstate either….and many of us followed patterico here after he was unceremoniously booted from Redstate….as they purged any thoughtful opposition to Trumpism.

    I’m not interested in this site becoming Redstate…and trafficking in a bunch of ridiculous election conspiracies and fantasies….to feed the emperor’s delusions and rationalize his actions. I’m sure Pat welcomes all civil views here but the tone is closer to the Dispatch here than it is to Breitbart.

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  94. Trump – history will show, was a great president, much better than the liberal Reagan (fighting communism isnt conservative its just the right thing to do) heads above anyone since Teddy roosevelt.

    I don’t think that was intended to make me laugh out loud — but it did.

    And it reminded me of what is now often called the Sagan standard: “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. (Though it predates Sagan, by hundreds of hears.)

    If you have any evidence for those claims, share it.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  95. EPWJ is from an alternate universe.

    nk (96a629)

  96. Add this:
    * GOP voters are either fine with all that, or they’ll say it’s all a myth, while they deploy their own myth that Dems engineered the attack on the Capitol to hurt Trump.
    * The GOP answer to what Trump did, or attempted, is to install local officials who can skew the next election in favor of Trump or Trump-lite, regardless of who actually wins the vote count. And they’re not even really hiding their intentions.

    Radegunda (0f7d44)

  97. @95. If you have any evidence for those claims, share it.

    Open your eyes; the evidence is all around you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU6PWT1rVUk

    “Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?”

    Nope.

    DCSCA (2e3647)

  98. nk needs a binky and a diaper change he cant even get his facts straight that Trump supported Mace and thats why she won

    LOL! Comedy gold!

    Trump makes last-minute pitch for Arrington in challenge to Mace in SC
    ……
    “Katie Arrington’s policies are perfect, she’s a hard worker and she loves the great state of South Carolina, where she has the tremendous backing of almost all who know her — especially when she is compared to Nancy Mace!” Trump said in the statement released through his Save America PAC.
    ……..
    “Nancy fights Republicans all the time and is not at all nice about it,” Trump said on Sunday. “Frankly, she is despised by almost everyone, and who needs that in Congress, or in the Republican Party?”
    …….
    “Vote for Katie Arrington on Tuesday, and thank you for the great support I’ve had in South Carolina — two landslide victories, and who knows, maybe another one soon coming!” he said.
    #######

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  99. A letter to Big Oil? A trip to beg 9/11 Saudis to drill, drill, drill?

    Attaboy, Joey…

    Carteriffic!

    DCSCA (87cbcf)

  100. DeSantis’ “issues” are issues that ordinary Republican voters care about. And he is willing to stand up to the corporate/media complex that has managed to intimidate Republicans in the past. As a result, we’re finally getting some things done. I’d say that’s a major improvement over much of the Republican party of the pre-2016 period, particularly in the Bush II years, which seemed to achieve little save the odd foreign war.

    mikeybates (ec9fa7)

  101. DeSantis’ “issues” are issues that ordinary Republican voters care about.

    Are they issues the electorate will care about in November?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  102. GOP commission refuses to certify New Mexico primary vote

    New Mexico’s secretary of state on Tuesday asked the state Supreme Court to order the Republican-led commission of rural Otero County to certify primary election results after it refused to do so over distrust of Dominion vote-tallying machines.

    Democratic Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Olive’s request came a day after the three-member Otero County commission, in its role as a county canvassing board, voted unanimously against certifying the results of the June 7 primary without raising specific concerns about discrepancies.

    The commission’s members include Cowboys for Trump co-founder Couy Griffin, who ascribes to unsubstantiated claims that former President Donald Trump won the 2020 election. Griffin was convicted of illegally entering restricted U.S. Capitol grounds — though not the building — amid the riots on Jan. 6, 2021, and is scheduled for sentencing later this month. He acknowledged that the standoff over this primary could delay the outcome of local election races.

    “I have huge concerns with these voting machines,” Otero County Commissioner Vickie Marquardt said Monday. “When I certify stuff that I don’t know is right, I feel like I’m being dishonest because in my heart I don’t know if it is right.”
    ……..
    County canvassing boards have until June 17 to certify election results, prior to state certification and preparation of general election ballots.

    Under state law, county canvass boards can call on a voting precinct board to address specific discrepancies, but no discrepancies were identified on Monday by the Otero commission.
    …….
    The Otero County commission voted last week to recount ballots from the statewide primary election by hand, remove state-mandated ballot drop boxes that facilitate absentee voting and discontinue the use of Dominion vote tabulation machines in the general election.

    On Monday, [County Clerk Robyn Holmes] said those instructions from the county commissions conflict with state and federal election law, and that she would only recount the election by hand under a court order.

    “The election law does not allow me to hand tally these ballots or to even form a board to do it. I just can’t,” said Holmes, a Republican. “And I’m going to follow the law.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  103. BREAKING NEWS: OFGS:

    Biden to send another $1 BILLION in military aid to Ukraine

    WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden announced another $1 billion in weapons for Ukraine on Wednesday, including anti-ship systems, artillery rockets and rounds for howitzers… Biden also announced an additional $225 million in humanitarian assistance for Ukraine to address needs like safe drinking water, critical medical supplies, food and cash for families to purchase essential items. – CNBC.com

    WTF? Bugs Zelinsky and his gang were ‘given’ $40 billion three weeks ago on May 21 on top of $13 billion earlier this year. And immediate cash for strugglin g Ukrainian families????? With American citizens struggling to pay for $7 gas, food, essentials themselves???

    INCOMPETENT. INCONTINENT. IMBECILE. IDIOT.

    DCSCA (4d2164)

  104. If a Republican In Name Only is a RINO, and a Democrat In Name Only is a DINO, as a Winner In Name Only is Trump a WINO?

    nk (6c627d)

  105. Fed hikes rates by 75 basis points for first time since 1994

    The Federal Reserve announced Wednesday it would hike interest rates this month at the fastest pace in nearly 30 years after a discouraging May surge in inflation.

    Carteriffic, Joey.

    DCSCA (c2b901)

  106. 92, indeed on GY (though maybe the Bulwark NOVA class already had that in mind when voting for him)

    …and when served one on a platter, look who proceeds to drop it on the floor by trying to be clever:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-welcomes-elon-musk-support-for-president-african-americans-2022-6

    urbanleftbehind (053691)

  107. Are they issues the electorate will care about in November?

    I guess we’ll see. Everyone can judge for themselves how well the country is being run right now.

    mikeybates (ec9fa7)

  108. If you read Forbes, the inflation was caused by (1) excessive stimulus ($5.6T) introduced by both parties, (2) the pandemic causing a contraction in supply and now a surge in demand, (3) the Russian invasion which effects both the international supply of oil and certain food items, and (4) the FED over-goosing the economy and then being too late with contraction. One could also argue that we need more people in the labor market (work visas?) and need to lighten up on Trump-era tariffs (which tend to raise prices)….these might be considered secondary.

    As a percent of GDP, Japan has introduced the most stimulus
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107572/covid-19-value-g20-stimulus-packages-share-gdp/
    but its inflation is a modest 2.5% (still, high for them)
    https://www.axios.com/2022/06/13/inflation-rates-around-world-us-china-eu-japan
    The UK’s stimulus was smaller than the US’s (18% vs 26.5%) but it has a higher inflation rate of 9% (vs 8.6%). Germany’s stimulus was even higher proportionately than the US’s (35%), yet their inflation rate is slightly lower (7.9%).

    So if you remove political gamesmanship from the analysis, then it’s a number of factors with it being world-wide phenomenon. Could Biden and Congress do more to help supply-chain shortages? Maybe, though I’ve seen few concrete suggestions from either side of the aisle. Could he have pushed the FED to act sooner? Of course the same could be applied to the congressional GOP. Did the GOP oppose the final $1.9T stimulus? Yes, but was this a political decision or one rooted in concerns over inflation? I think the voters will reward them by ignoring the $3.7T of stimulus advanced by Trump and the bailouts of farmers from his trade war.

    Ehhh. I support GOP economic policies but much of this is just politics and positioning…..and a lot of quacking

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  109. Stuart Varney: Biden’s ‘jig’ is up after his ‘dishonest’ speech

    We have a higher inflation rate than Germany, France, Japan, China, India, Italy and Saudi Arabia!

    Where is the president getting all this inaccurate information?

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/stuart-varney-biden-jig-up-after-dishonest-speech

    DCSCA (729a69)

  110. This jerk is 80 years old; Joe’s vision for a future in America is a pine box. He doesn’t care; is oblivious, indifferent and the rest of the world, from Xi to Vlad, to Zelinsky to Hunter are taking advantage of it.

    Two years of enduring a President Harris is looking better every day.

    DCSCA (126316)

  111. If incoming President Harris threw one bone,.. er…Olive Branch to ingratiate herself with her perceived opposition, which 1 Biden policy should reverted to it’s 1.19.21 state has the most appeal to you personally? (any may answer)

    urbanleftbehind (053691)

  112. @Kevin@80 I could not disagree more. His Build Back Better plan was all his.

    Obviously the following is just going to be my opinion, but Biden hasn’t had a history as a radical leftist. I think the BBB plan was a sop to the far leftist in congress that Biden only cared about performatively. He was in the Senate for decades, he know how it works.

    Nic (896fdf)

  113. Biden probably has a case of Maggie Daley syndrome (the wife may be the much farther left of the 2, as was the case of the 2nd Mayor Daley of Chicago, which resulted in mostly boilerplate neoliberal policies and a sharp turn against traditional policing after June 4th, 1999 when two black motorists died during interactions with CPD -one was shot when she waved a shiny cellphone and the 2nd was chokeholded.

    urbanleftbehind (053691)

  114. Just a minute ago, I found out that we have something called “goat yoga” in this country. All of a sudden, Trump is nowhere near as disturbing as he used to be.

    nk (6c627d)

  115. He was in the Senate for decades, he knows how it works.

    His experience is useless; it’s from an era long past and gone. Every name Joe drops he ‘worked with’ is gone– or dead. Unfortunately, what he’s demonstrating is the very level of incompetence that continually fuels the growing populism which got the likes of a Trump elected.

    And as Kevin correctly noted from Charles Murray’s AEI essay, this populism is not going away any time soon– and will simply find another flag bearer post-Trump times. Not a fan Murray— other than his superb book quilled w/C.B. Cox on Apollo several years ago— but when Murray’s observations and data are right, they’re right.

    DCSCA (a41b91)

  116. Update to post #103-

    New Mexico’s Supreme Court orders county commission to certify vote

    New Mexico’s Supreme Court on Wednesday ordered the county commissioners in rural Otero County to do their jobs and certify election results, two days after they refused, citing unsubstantiated concerns about fraud.

    The court granted the emergency motion by New Mexico Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver, a Democrat, who earlier this week asked the court to intervene and compel the three-member board to approve vote totals from a June 7 primary. The commission had voted on Monday not to do so.
    ……..
    The deadline to certify the primary election results is Friday. Under state law, county boards must prove there were discrepancies in election returns if they decline to certify results; so far, the commissioners have only said they are generally distrustful of state officials and of the electronic voting machines.

    At stake are the results of the primary for the county’s one statehouse seat and several other positions, including a district court judge, county assessor and county sheriff.

    Otero County Commissioner Couy Griffin, who is scheduled to be sentenced this Friday for trespassing at the Capitol during the Jan. 6, 2021, riot, said the board continues to have concerns about election security even after three official audits of the 2020 results and a partisan review by “volunteers” turned up no evidence of widespread fraud.

    Griffin falsely asserted that the machines’ software had not been updated since 2011 — a bipartisan commission recertified the machines just last year — and repeated the debunked rumor that the machines, which are not linked to the internet, could be hacked.
    ……..
    Griffin, 47, a former rodeo cowboy and the founder of “Cowboys for Trump,” has long been an outspoken supporter of the former president. He is known for his incendiary comments, saying in 2020, for instance, that “the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  117. @84 I didn’t know libertarian conservatives were now hall monitor censors. Learn something knew everyday.

    asset (c2c9e1)

  118. Like I said NK Daily Kos is probably a better blog for you too.

    Well, considering #84, Let me recommend you try Gateway Pundit. Or the ironically named “Truth Social.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  119. @104: I’m glad that Pat doesn’t allow font size or color tags or “blink.” I haven’t tried them, but I’m sure DCSCA has, so I know they don’t work here.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  120. @113:

    Nic, I see BBB as Biden’s idea of a compromise program: Bundle together every wish he’s ever heard and give it a package name, and they’ll go for it. The ultimate pork barrel. Something for everyone, and if you need too, you can always add more. Twenty years of pent-up demands, all in one fell swoop.

    I don’t see it as ideological, at least not in the context of the Democrat Party. I just see it as a Master Plan with too little creative input. Then when they started chopping out the, uh, more wishful parts to cut costs, there was suddenly no there there.

    He also made two big mistakes: He assumed that he’d get 100% of the Senate and he didn’t try to buy off some Republicans as insurance.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  121. Spellcheck doesn’t catch everything.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  122. I don’t see it as ideological, at least not in the context of the Democrat Party. I just see it as a Master Plan with too little creative input. Then when they started chopping out the, uh, more wishful parts to cut costs, there was suddenly no there there.

    It was the tacking on of a catchphrase that was coined at one of the numerous globalist conventions, where our presumptive masters of the universe determine how they’re going to try and manipulate their respective national populations. It isn’t any different than the “Great Reset” these same god-complex-afflicted smooth-brains were pimping during COVID, or “you’ll own nothing, and be happy.”

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  123. Trump – history will show, was a great president, much better than the liberal Reagan (fighting communism isnt conservative its just the right thing to do) heads above anyone since Teddy roosevelt.

    I like Trump for shaking up the GOP and being a catalyst for getting it to move on from the intellectual sclerosis of the neocons that ran it for over 20 years, but this take is just silly. Trump had some accomplishments that I liked, such as putting our withdrawal from Syria and Afghanistan in motion, getting some of our lords and masters to reconsider our economic linkage to China, and getting the GOP involved in actually fighting the culture war again, but these things do not a great president make. If they were, he would have been re-elected. I think the word you’re really looking for here is “consequential,” not “great.”

    What he’s going to go down as is a chaos agent, one that was needed to shake the party out of its doldrums, but not one that could actually serve as its long-term leader. A great GOP president will have to take those emotions that Trump inspired in the base, and harness them as part of crafting a specific policy agenda that the party’s base can actually get excited about, not re-hashed “tax cuts and forever wars” porridge that passed its sell-by date years ago.

    It, ironically considering the base’s feelings about Hart-Cellar immigration, also appears to have a golden opportunity to legitimately snatch a huge chunk of the Hispanic vote right out of the Dems hands for decades, the same way the Dems snatched the black vote from Republicans during the Depression and 1960s–especially if northeast chowderheads like AOC continue spouting shibboleths of neurotic academics about how “Latinx” is just a natural progression of language, instead of just the latest attempt by self-loathing white leftists to marxify everything for the original sin of their pale skin color. I don’t think, after several decades of promoting “Brown Pride” and “Chicano Pride” as positive examples of ethnic chauvinism (as opposed to white pride, which is always evil), it’s going to be too easy to get them to suddenly accept that they’re collectively guilty for the sins of their ancestors against the Current Thing.

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  124. One could also argue that we need more people in the labor market (work visas?)

    No, putting even more people in the labor market isn’t going to do anything but cause an increase in money supply and even further demand on existing resources–land, water, food–that are already suffering from too much money chasing after too few goods.

    The problem is that we’ve been putting off what should have probably been a Depression-like correction for years by papering the problem over in various ways with low-interest credit issuance. We really should have taken our medicine in 2001 after the dotcom bubble popped, or when the bottom finally fell out when the housing bubble popped. What we need now is for the ZIRP bubble to pop.

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  125. Are they issues the electorate will care about in November?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/15/2022 @ 10:09 am

    Ask Terry McAuliffe.

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  126. The GOP position on immigration from the south should be something like this:

    “These are exactly the types of self-reliant, hardworking, family people we want. We could not have found a better source of future Americans if we tried. There should be easier immigration from nearby countries, but we cannot have open borders.

    As we have seen, that leads to crowding, social conflict, overtaxed infrastucture and housing, leading to poverty, crime and homelessness. Immigration needs to be managed, not only for those already here, but for those who want an actual chance at a better life.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  127. What we need now is for the ZIRP bubble to pop.

    A lot of people pop with that, too. They will kick the can down the road again, and I’m not sure that’s wrong. If a Depression is what God orders, well, that will happen no matter what we do. But it cannot be arranged — too many players have to go along and most won’t.

    It may be better in the long run, but as Harry Hopkins pointed out, people eat in the short run.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  128. “No, putting even more people in the labor market isn’t going to do anything but cause an increase in money supply”

    The CEO of the US Chamber of Commerce disagrees with you

    https://www.businessinsider.com/immigration-inflation-labor-shortage-chamber-commerce-suzanne-clark-jobs-work-2022-1

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/11/economy/chamber-of-commerce-inflation/index.html

    I won’t argue it will be a big effect necessarily but it’s unquestionable that there is a labor shortage…and a labor shortage in key areas of moving goods around the country

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  129. FWO: “getting the GOP involved in actually fighting the culture war again”

    Here’s a couple of articles….yes NYT and NPR….but suprisingly objective that help frame the culture war discussion

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/arts/television/donald-trump-culture-war.html

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/20/881096897/as-the-culture-wars-shift-president-trump-struggles-to-adapt

    I think Trump over did the culture war. He had to weigh in on everything and eventually that one-sided saturation diminishes its effect and he becomes a troll that does as much for energizing the opposition as he does for exciting his own base.

    The challenge too is that the President is the one political office that is elected by all of the people and, in some sense, is the voice of the country (certainly internationally). There’s some expectation that the President should help heal divides and reflect the reality that in a pluralistic society with many competing cultural enclaves, in the end, we do have to get along — democracy kind of requires it. This suggests being far more selective and nuanced. The President isn’t just expressing his opinion but is giving the opinion of the office.

    Now this doesn’t suggest some role for the President as critic of cultural developments. I actually thought Dan Quayle’s critique of Murphy Brown and glamorizing single-parenting was not just appropriate but correct. But we have to be realistic about what this commentary does and can accomplish. Can it start a productive dialogue where both sides gain some appreciation? Or is the whole thing performative and intended to fire up controversy? Is the President as the chief federal law enforcement person the best person to provide running commentary on confederate statues and the wisdom of firing Phil Robertson? At some point does it make the bully pulpit ridiculous….and does it make it harder for a President to actually build bridges and solve problems?

    You’ve previously commented that we have more that divides us as a people than unifies us. I would push back on that. We all want safe streets, good schools, plentiful jobs, more time for leisure, our sports teams to win, to worship God as we see fit, and a peaceful and just world. Yes the devil is in the details of how we achieve those goals, but we should not lose sight that everyone wants a lot of the same things and build on that. I question the wisdom of promoting a troll-in-chief to fight the sketchy war on Christmas or the firing of Roseanne Barr. Conserving the bully pulpit is important too.

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  130. The CEO of the US Chamber of Commerce disagrees with you

    I don’t take anything that the Chamber of Commerce argues all that seriously, especially because they’re the biggest pimps of mass peon labor to begin with for the last 50-odd years.

    I won’t argue it will be a big effect necessarily but it’s unquestionable that there is a labor shortage

    This wasn’t an issue before COVID caused a mass disruption to the labor market. If the current crop of immigrants doesn’t want to play that role anymore, that’s a bigger issue to address than simply treating the US labor market the way the Fed and banks have treated the credit market the last 25 years.

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  131. Can it start a productive dialogue where both sides gain some appreciation? Or is the whole thing performative and intended to fire up controversy?

    The point is to subvert the cultural status quo that is constantly driven by the left-wing pretenses of the moment, not “start a productive dialogue.” I don’t want to dialogue with people who’ve made the implementation of cultural marxism and liberationist ideology their top priority, because there’s literally nothing they have to offer that I’m interested in going along with.

    You’ve previously commented that we have more that divides us as a people than unifies us. I would push back on that. We all want safe streets, good schools, plentiful jobs, more time for leisure, our sports teams to win, to worship God as we see fit, and a peaceful and just world. Yes the devil is in the details of how we achieve those goals, but we should not lose sight that everyone wants a lot of the same things and build on that.

    Except when one side has determined that it’s their way or the highway, there’s nothing to actually build on. There’s telling them, “No, you aren’t going to be allowed to do that,” and find ways to disincetivize them to do so.

    Left-wing media outlets and NGOs can’t even keep their own woke employees in check at this point, so finding common ground with people like this is just indulging overgrown children who have never been told “No” in their lives.

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  132. It may be better in the long run, but as Harry Hopkins pointed out, people eat in the short run.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 6/16/2022 @ 1:57 am

    Yeah, it’s going to hurt. It’s also inevitable, precisely because we’ve ignored Eisenhower’s salient warnings about this for decades:

    “As we peer into society’s future, we – you and I, and our government – must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.”

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  133. “Except when one side has determined that it’s their way or the highway, there’s nothing to actually build on.”

    I think you’re stuck on the most extreme liberal voices and miss the fact that most people are far more moderate about things. Even with abortion, the mother of all cultural issues, most people are against elective late-term abortions but favor some availability during the first trimester. Is hyper-focusing on the most extreme voices productive?

    There’s a whole outrage industry focused on what the 15% of extremists say on both sides. Your commentary on Trump suggests that the President plays an important role in all of this. I argued against the idea that what Trump was especially important. You really side stepped my argument and focused on whether common ground can be found generally. Convincing the extremes should not be the test of this. For instance, I think there are a lot more people to the right of BLM on police reform. Maybe it’s more productive to engage those voices than it is to sling poo at BLM.

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  134. https://rollcall.com/2021/01/27/lawmakers-probe-russian-support-for-us-extremists

    The lie-fueled violence that erupted at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 was made in the USA.

    Now why start ioff with that assumption?

    They’ve been trying to find evidence of inspection of the Capitol and not finding it. Or anything that makes sense.

    “U.S. officials have not accused Russia of being behind the U.S. Capitol insurrection, which was fueled largely by election grievances,” the Stratfor report said. “However, Moscow’s sustained efforts to undermine U.S. democracy — most notably through its well-documented interference in the 2016 presidential election — raise questions about its complicity in indirectly strengthening the RWE [right wing extremist] movement behind the Capitol takeover.”

    More:

    The Washington Post reported last year [2020] that leaders of the Russian Imperial Movement had met in recent years with top members of two far-right U.S. groups — Unite the Right and the New Century Foundation.

    It is not clear whether Russian authorities fund the Russian Imperial Movement. But U.S. officials have told reporters that the government of President Vladimir Putin has at a minimum tolerated the group’s activities, which have included fighting alongside Russian separatists in Ukraine and backing neo-Nazis in Scandinavia.

    The FBI was reportedly investigating possible ties between the Russian group and a U.S. racist group called The Base, according to press reports.

    There are no publicly known ties between the attack on the Capitol earlier this month and Russian groups. But Blazakis, the former State Department official, said that doesn’t necessarily mean that no such ties exist.

    “We’ll probably learn more and more as the forensics and the autopsy of what happened on Jan. 6 continue to come out,” he said.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  135. I think you’re stuck on the most extreme liberal voices and miss the fact that most people are far more moderate about things. Even with abortion, the mother of all cultural issues, most people are against elective late-term abortions but favor some availability during the first trimester. Is hyper-focusing on the most extreme voices productive?

    Doesn’t matter if they’re moderate about things or not, they aren’t the ones driving the Overton window hard to the left. It’s not a fringe who’s trying to argue for abortion on demand, it’s the mainstream media and the current leaders of the Democratic party. And in that environment, not pushing back with equal vigor is tantamount to conceding to their agenda.

    For instance, I think there are a lot more people to the right of BLM on police reform. Maybe it’s more productive to engage those voices than it is to sling poo at BLM.

    BLM and the Democrats are fully joined at the hip. If you’re bending over backwards to accommodate mouthpiece of the DNC, which is quite open in its grifting, corruption, and ethnic chauvinism because they know they have top cover from one of the two major parties, then you’re just enabling further bad actions.

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  136. https://www.axios.com/2022/06/15/us-sanction-russian-imperial-movement

    The first person sanctioned is Stanislav Shevchuk, a Europe-based representative of the group that has spoken at RIM rallies in Europe and has previously traveled to the U.S. to try and establish connections between RIM and domestic far-right extremist and white nationalist groups, per the statement.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  137. FWO: “I don’t take anything that the Chamber of Commerce argues all that seriously”

    How about Forbes?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2022/06/10/these-reforms-would-increase-economic-growth-and-help-alleviate-inflation/?sh=7c31c8473700

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  138. How about Forbes?

    Nope. These people are wishcasting.

    Factory Working Orphan (1cdbfb)

  139. the commenters who won’t blame biden for anything are probably still blaming trump for covid

    JF (b2a9f3)

  140. the commenters who won’t blame biden for anything are probably still blaming trump for covid

    JF (b2a9f3) — 6/16/2022 @ 6:34 am

    Remember when it was deeply concerning that state actors (DeSantis) were going after companies for political reasons (Disney) and it was also deeply concerning that state actors (Biden) were going after companies for political reasons (the entire petrochemical industry)?

    frosty (b92173)

  141. the commenters who won’t blame biden for anything are probably still blaming trump for covid

    No kidding. Those that profess to “love America”– just hate Americans. 😉

    The DOW is plummeting. Write another letter, Joe. This time, to Big Business on Wall Street.

    DCSCA (612de5)

  142. Remember when it was deeply concerning that state actors (DeSantis) were going after companies for political reasons (Disney) and it was also deeply concerning that state actors (Biden) were going after companies for political reasons (the entire petrochemical industry)?

    If Biden’s targeting private oil companies is a Bad Thing, when why are DeSantis’ actions against Disney defensible?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  143. DeSantis got spoiled. While other corporations were giving him money in the millions and tens of millions, for a campaign chest to date in excess of $100 million, all Disney gave him was a Mickey Mouse $100,000 and that to a PAC.

    nk (cdaa6f)

  144. If Biden’s targeting private oil companies is a Bad Thing, when why are DeSantis’ actions against Disney defensible?

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/16/2022 @ 7:42 am

    Because they aren’t the same thing. As you say, they both aren’t the same type of Bad Thing.

    DeSantis went to the trouble of getting legislation passed to remove a special privilege and this was called punishment. This was characterized as an authoritarian overreach of the worst kind. While I might think this wasn’t wise, that it was politically motivated, that it’s counter-productive, etc. This isn’t unusual or authoritarian. DeSantis isn’t ordering Disney to produce a specific outcome. There’s no requirement that Disney come out in favor of specific policies. Even the critics of the FL law eventually acknowledge that this won’t really hurt Disney.

    Biden is threatening something vague in the form of all reasonable and appropriate Federal Government tools and emergency authorities to increase refinery capacity and output in the near term. The common thing I’ve heard is a surtax or something with the Defense Production Act. Most of the criticism of this I’ve seen so far focuses on whether it will work. There’s not a lot of the authoritarian overreach comments going around. But this is explicitly a case of a state actor attempting to exert control over private companies. Biden is demanding that these oil companies take specific action. Literally, he’s expecting them to bring down the price of gas and he’ll decide what the number should be. It’s straight up authoritarian fascism.

    Paul, do you think those two things are comparable? How do you think Biden will increase refinery capacity and output? Do you think we’re in a time of war as Biden claims and that this gives him the legal justification to set the price at the pump?

    frosty (b92173)

  145. Oil Companies Unload On Biden After His Thinly-Veiled Threats

    -Oil companies responded in force after President Joe Biden threatened executive action over U.S. refinery capacity declines.

    -“Following on your campaign promise to ‘end fossil fuel,’ consider just some of the policy and investment signals being sent by various federal agencies and allied state governments to the market about our refining industry,” the American Petroleum Institute and American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers wrote to Biden on Wednesday.

    -“What we have seen since January 2021 are policies that send a message that the Administration aims to impose obstacles to our industry delivering energy resources the world needs,” Chevron spokesperson Bill Turenne said.

    Oil companies and industry trade groups criticized President Joe Biden after he sent a letter to them threatening action over high gasoline prices.

    Biden penned a letter to seven major oil companies Tuesday insisting they increase oil refining operations to counter declining fuel supplies and inventories nationwide. The American Petroleum Institute (API) and American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers (AFPM) sent a letter to the White House Wednesday evening, saying energy companies are refining at an increasingly high rate and government policies have injected uncertainty into the industry, in a response sent to the White House on Wednesday evening.

    “Refiners do not make multi-billion-dollar investments based on short-term returns,” the two groups wrote in the joint letter to Biden. “They look at long-term supply and demand fundamentals and make investments as appropriate. To that end, following on your campaign promise to ‘end fossil fuel,’ consider just some of the policy and investment signals being sent by various federal agencies and allied state governments to the market about our refining industry.”

    “The timing and reasons for shutdowns of several refineries, including the Philadelphia Energy Solutions and Shell Convent refineries, were primarily due to lack of buyers willing to continue operating the facilities as petroleum refineries given growing rhetoric about the long-term viability of the industry,” the letter continued.

    On Wednesday, several of the companies Biden addressed in his warning letter responded in force, echoing the industry groups’ response. They noted their refinery utilization rates are high and that the president’s policies are holding them back.

    “Specific to refining capacity in the U.S., we’ve been investing through the downturn to increase refining capacity to process U.S. light crude by about 250,000 barrels per day – the equivalent of adding a new medium-sized refinery,” ExxonMobil said in a statement shared with The Daily Caller News Foundation. “We kept investing even during the pandemic, when we lost more than $20 billion and had to borrow more than $30 billion to maintain investment to increase capacity to be ready for post-pandemic demand.”

    “Longer term, government can promote investment through clear and consistent policy that supports U.S. resource development, such as regular and predictable lease sales, as well as streamlined regulatory approval and support for infrastructure such as pipelines,” the company’s statement continued.

    The API and AFPM noted that the Environmental Protection Agency recently finalized a vehicle standard to force gasoline demand down over the next decade and the administration encouraged an effort in California to place a future ban on traditional gasoline-powered vehicles. Multiple federal agencies have also introduced roadblocks for approving and constructing energy infrastructure projects like pipelines, the groups added.

    Increasing refining capacity would boost crude oil demand and, therefore, prices would soar higher since the administration has largely opposed new fossil fuel production and leasing, the groups said.

    In addition, Shell spokesperson Curtis Smith and Phillips 66 spokesperson Bernardo Fallas both highlighted that U.S. refinery utilization is up, in emails to TheDCNF.

    Operable refinery utilization — a figure that measures how much petroleum companies are refining relative to their maximum capacity — reached a whopping 94.2% this month, its highest level since 2019, and is expected to remain at that rate through the summer, according to the Energy Information Administration. But total U.S. refining capacity has declined due to environmental regulations and projected gasoline demand decline as a result of the so-called green transition.

    “Chevron is committed to the supply of affordable, reliable, ever-cleaner energy in the United States and across the globe,” Chevron spokesperson Bill Turenne told The DCNF. “We understand the significant concerns around higher fuel prices currently faced by consumers around the country, and the world. We share these concerns, and expect the Administration’s approach to energy policy will start to better reflect the importance of addressing them.”

    “Unfortunately, what we have seen since January 2021 are policies that send a message that the Administration aims to impose obstacles to our industry delivering energy resources the world needs,” he added. “All of Chevron’s U.S. refineries are operational and our refinery input grew to 915,000 [barrels per day] on average in the first quarter from 881,000 in the same quarter a year before.” – dailycaller.com

    Memo to Joe:

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (ff5b8d)

  146. If Biden’s targeting private oil companies is a Bad Thing, when why are DeSantis’ actions against Disney defensible?

    Pfft.

    Exxon puts a tiger in your tank.

    Not Mickey Mouse.

    DCSCA (ff5b8d)

  147. Saudi Oil Chief Visits Russia in Gesture to Fellow OPEC+ Member

    (Bloomberg) — Saudi Arabia’s energy minister traveled to Russia in a show of support for the fellow OPEC+ member just as the US encourages the cartel to pump more oil and isolate Moscow.

    Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman met Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak on Thursday at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, a flagship conference that almost all Western officials and business executives are avoiding this year following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Ties between the world’s two biggest energy exporters are “as good as the weather in Riyadh,” the prince said. OPEC Secretary-General Mohammad Barkindo, speaking at different event in London, signaled that the group’s coalition with Moscow would endure.

    Prince Abdulaziz’s trip comes a month before US President Joe Biden is set to visit Saudi Arabia in an effort to improve relations and coax an increase in oil production to ease record-high gasoline prices at home. – Bloomberg.com

    MEMO to Joe:

    When you get there, be sure you bow when you beg.

    DCSCA (ff5b8d)

  148. Paul, do you think those two things are comparable?

    Yes. The politically elected executive attempted to use the power of his office to punish/penalize private corporations, the former because he’s looking for a scapegoat, the latter because they said something he didn’t like. Neither are conservative, it’s political posturing and dick-swinging.

    The excuse that DeSantis gets a pass because the legislature he controls passed the legislation and is therefore not his, it’s the same excuse as when liberals told me Obama wasn’t responsible for Obamacare because Congress passed the ACA, even though both were executive-initiated actions.

    How do you think Biden will increase refinery capacity and output?

    I don’t know, because I can’t and won’t try to get into Biden’s head.

    Do you think we’re in a time of war as Biden claims and that this gives him the legal justification to set the price at the pump?

    The US is not “in a time of war”. We’re sending military aid to Ukraine so that the war stays there and doesn’t expand beyond their borders.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  149. (I probably should’ve put this hear instead of the prosecutor thread, my apologies to the mods)

    Thoughts on the Jan 6th hearings day 3:

    Eastman knew what he was telling Trump to do was illegal. He admitted it several times.

    Everyone told Trump that what Eastman had suggested was not legal. Eastman admitted in front of Trump, during a meeting with witnesses, that his various suggestions regarding Pence delaying the electoral vote certification process violated the law. Trump knew what he was telling Pence to do was illegal, yet he continued to tell him to do it. Trump told Pence to illegally interfere with the election in an attempt to remain in office, despite the fact that he had lost the election.

    When Trump’s staff suggested that he needed to issue a statement or put out a tweet to calm his supporters who were rioting at the Capitol, Trump instead sent a tweet that Pence had failed them, pointing a violent mod directly at Vice President Pence.

    IANAL. I don’t know which laws in legal terms those actions specifically violate, but from a lay person’s point of view, that sure looks like a coupe attempt against the government of the US and possibly some kind of attempt to incite the assault or even murder of Mike Pence.

    Nic (896fdf)

  150. Notes on the hearing today:

    1. There was not the slightest clue that what everybody expected was a challenge to the votes — of 6 states – and a debate in both Houses of Congress separately. It is not at all clear how what Trump wanted Mike Pence to do fit into this. And if he did couldn’t there be a motion to overrule the chair? Why was that talked about like it was final? Why did anyone assume it ended there, or in court?

    Now a motion to overrule the chair would change the dynamic – because under the Electoral Count Act it required a majority vote in both houses to reject a state’s electoral votes, while if it was a motion to overrule the chair it would require a majority vote to accept them.

    2. We learned that John Eastman went from one position to another – Mike Pence should reject the votes and Mike Pence should recess the proceedings for 10 days. At first he recommended the recess then he changed to rejection. Possibly because Trump wanted that?

    The whole thing was being constructed on the fly.

    As a judge said, the whole Eastman approach was a coup in search of a legal theory

    3. Mike Pence told Trump (privately) no later than a few days earlier that he would not go along (if so then why was he continuing to meet with Donald Trump to discuss this?) He didn’t tell the public and I suspect he didn’t tell Donald Trump his decision was final. Only maybe his staff, and maybe the committee tried to get them to say that.

    4. Pence’s first instinct when he first heard the proposal that he reject votes was that the people who wrote the constitution and the 12th amendment could not possibly have intended that one man – and the Vice president that – have the power to determine the winner.

    5. Trump lied in a statement about what Mike Pence had told him, although Mike Pence’s staff didn’t know for certain who had issued that statement so the question was what is the process for putting out a statement. But the contents of that statement were coming from Trump.

    6. Originally, the speech Trump delivered at the Ellipse contained no mention of Mike Pence. It was added later.. And Trump ad libbed some more about Pence.

    Let’s look at this: Donald Trump said at the rally at the Ellipse:

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6

    We’re going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. If he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our constitution. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy.

    I think the way to understand it was that the rally was to pressure Congress except he knew in his heart that he would lose without Mike Pence.

    (He would lose also with him, but it was his best hope.)

    7. I think the word “wild” can have several different meanings. I think Trump (and others) were told one thing and some rioters maybe another.

    8. At 1:44 pm on January 6, John Eastman texted one of Mike Pence’s aides asking Pence again to postpone the count, saying that after the recess was called (because of the riot) didn’t he agree that the Electoral Count Act wasn’t so sacred? The aide did not pass it along until a day or two later and Mike Pence said about that that that was rubber room stuff.

    [That’s 3 “that”s in a row and perfectly good English. I think the record is seven.]

    8. I don’t see such a great danger in 2024. The danger is more several elections down the road and that the Republican Party could become as anti-democracy as the old Communist Party.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  151. 9. The committee played the beginning of this speech: Or almost the beginning

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/rudy-giuliani-speech-transcript-at-trumps-washington-d-c-rally-wants-trial-by-combat

    Another link

    https://www.justsecurity.org/74622/stopthesteal-timeline-of-social-media-and-extremist-activities-leading-to-1-6-insurrection/

    This tells you that Lin Wood had a proposal to arrest Mike Pence after which (he thought) Mike Pompeo would substitute (not true) and Mike Pompeo would surely go along. And Louie Goumert eanted afederal judge to order Mike Pence to reject votes./

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  152. Nic (896fdf) — 6/16/2022 @ 2:41 pm

    Thoughts on the Jan 6th hearings day 3:

    Eastman knew what he was telling Trump to do was illegal. He admitted it several times.

    He conceded that. He said it probably would not be uphekd by the Supreme Court — and it would go 7-2 and later in the conversation agreed it would go 9-0 but then he said the Supreme Court would not take it up on the grounds it was a “political question” (whih the court had done before 1962 in reapportionment cases)

    He also acknowledged that it wad premised on the idea that the Electoral Count Act was unconstitutional and this null and void.

    After the attack and the subsequent recess he texted to the effect: Ah you see that Electoral Count Act is not so sacrosanct because, look, they had called a recess which was not legal under the Electoral Count Act so now why can’t Pence reject some votes?

    Everyone told Trump that what Eastman had suggested was not legal.

    Not everyone since everyone included Eastman.

    Eastman admitted in front of Trump, during a meeting with witnesses, that his various suggestions regarding Pence delaying the electoral vote certification process violated the law.

    But he said the law was unconstitutional, and there are questions about it. Where des Congress get any right to reject any votes?

    Trump knew what he was telling Pence to do was illegal, yet he continued to tell him to do it. Trump told Pence to illegally interfere with the election in an attempt to remain in office, despite the fact that he had lost the election.

    When Trump’s staff suggested that he needed to issue a statement or put out a tweet to calm his supporters who were rioting at the Capitol, Trump instead sent a tweet that Pence had failed them, pointing a violent mod directly at Vice President Pence.

    IANAL. I don’t know which laws in legal terms those actions specifically violate,

    I think the Electoral Count Act of 1887. And common sense. Because in no way did the 12th amendment give the vice president such power. Eastman himself had said that before in comments on some document.

    but from a lay person’s point of view, that sure looks like a coupe attempt against the government of the US

    No coup because no force was involved. It would have required everyone bowing down. This was no March on Rome. The mob also had no plans. Except to kill some people maybe.

    and possibly some kind of attempt to incite the assault or even murder of Mike Pence.

    What good would that do Trump? He needed positive action from 1) Republican members of Congress and/or 2) Mike Pence

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  153. Scare them maybe into co-operating. But if so, Trump would have had to be in secret contact with the plotters. Not by his words at trhe speech. That riot ws as planned days before;

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/capitol-riot-funding.html

    Keith Lee, an Air Force veteran and former police detective, spent the morning of Jan. 6 casing the entrances to the Capitol….

    ..By noon, he was reporting that “backup” was already arriving, bypassing the Trump speech and rally. The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were among the groups that went directly to the Capitol

    They weren’t his people. The mob was full of anti-vaxxers.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/26/us/far-right-extremism-anti-vaccine.html

    On Jan. 6, while rioters advanced on the Capitol, numerous leading figures in the anti-vaccination movement were onstage nearby, holding their own rally to attack both the election results and Covid-19 vaccinations.

    Events overshadowed their protest, but at least one outspoken activist, Dr. Simone Gold of Beverly Hills, Calif., was charged with breaching the Capitol

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  154. @sammy@154 Legally speaking at this point, why would it matter if Eastman though something would be taken up by the court or not? especially having already acknowledged the people who decide constitutionality or non-constitutionality would say it was constitutional? He knew that regardless of his personal opinion, the action was illegal and that the law would be decided as constitutional. I could decide that some law was unconstitutional IMO and willfully violate it and my butt would still go to jail. How is the idea that what they are doing is illegal and the law would be judged as constitutional but they might get away with overthrowing the government anyway a justifiable argument?

    Eastman did agree that his suggestions were not legal, would violate the law, and that the law would be judged constitutional regardless of his personal opinion. His argument was that they might get away with it anyway.

    No coup because no force was involved.

    There seems to have been enough of a concern about Trump directed force being used against Pence even before Jan 6th that his staff spoke with his secret service about it. There was definitely a threat of force when Trump directed the mod at Pence with his tweet. And I would say that Eastman’s phone-call to Jacobs following the mod was an implication of force, even though Jacobs chose not to share Eastman’s suggestion to Pence.

    What good would that do Trump?

    They seem to think that it would’ve stopped the certification and that either Pence would be unable to fulfill his duties or that he would cave to Trump’s threats.

    Trump would have had to be in secret contact with the plotters.

    No he wouldn’t have. The public contact was sufficient. Get them there ready for action, rile them up, send them out, see what happens and take advantage of that.

    Nic (896fdf)

  155. ‘The US is not “in a time of war”. We’re sending military aid to Ukraine so that the war stays there and doesn’t expand beyond their borders.’

    Spins the Credit Card charging RINO:

    “WASHINGTON (WTRF) — On Friday, the House Majority Leader, Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, lambasted Republicans for criticizing Biden in a time like this when “we’re at war,” according to reports. Hoyer, 82, is the second highest-ranking House Democrat behind Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, 82, of California.

    “It is unfortunate that in a time of war, we spend all the time blaming our own president.” House Majority Leader, Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland Hoyer then said he wished “we’d get off this and really focus on the enemy,” adding he knows “there’s a lot of politics here, but we’re at war.” He later doubled down on the Russia war comment, saying, “we’re at war.”

    Congress has not declared war on Russia or authorized military force against Russia.”

    ‘I don’t know, because I can’t and won’t try to get into Biden’s head.’

    Surgeons have.

    Several times.

    DCSCA (ff5b8d)

  156. The whole thing appears to be falling apart.
    Oh well…

    Colonel Haiku (6ae054)

  157. @150 How does DeSantis control the FL legislature? I think you’re being a bit figurative there. Unless you’re wanting to play a game were representative government, checks and balances, etc. is only valid when you like the mix.

    I also think you’re playing a game with the BO example. It’s going to far to say he wasn’t responsible. I’m not making the claim that DeSantis has no responsibility. I’m saying that the FL law isn’t a standalone executive action.

    So far, the Biden thing is shaping up to be a standalone executive action.

    frosty (bfa7cd)

  158. The API and AFPM noted that the Environmental Protection Agency recently finalized a vehicle standard to force gasoline demand down over the next decade and the administration encouraged an effort in California to place a future ban on traditional gasoline-powered vehicles. Multiple federal agencies have also introduced roadblocks for approving and constructing energy infrastructure projects like pipelines, the groups added.

    I’m curious as to why oil companies should invest millions to increase capacity just to try and help this Peter Principle administration, when that same administration and its supporters are quite blatant that they want oil companies to go out of business by the end of this decade. Jennifer Granholm, who inexplicably keeps getting high-level work despite being one of the dumbest politicians of the 21st century, actually made this very argument the other day.

    It’s the same thing with the Saudis. Biden shot his mouth off that he was going to make Saudi Arabia a “pariah” over one of the cathedral’s mouthpieces being killed, and now has to go to them with his hat in hand, begging them to turn the pumps to 11. What possible motivation does Bin Salman have to help this guy?

    Factory Working Orphan (f6ac93)

  159. Oil companies should not have control of our domestic oil in the first place. Even if we had to use the Army Corps of Engineers to pump it out.

    All right, all right, I understand that letting rich jerkoffs loot, rape, and pillage our natural resources has been the American Way before there even was an America. But the cascade of energy crises of the 1970s should have made us change our ways, at least in this one area.

    nk (b7818e)

  160. …so Penex on steroids? Would every gas station would resemble 1980s Amoco stations (the branding of which has actually made a comeback in recent years)?

    urbanleftbehind (a9060b)

  161. You mean Pemex with an “m”. The government can subcontract. All the way down the line. Like it does with everything else. As long as it maintains ownership and control.

    nk (b7818e)

  162. And, no, I would want the Sinclair dinosaur.

    nk (b7818e)

  163. Nk, so you want to nationalize the industry. That about right?

    The government signs leases or in the case of Biden, refuses to sign them. They regulate the heck out of the industry and tax it an insane level.

    Not enough government control for you?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  164. Speaking of a boiling frog, a leftwing terrorist organization, Ruth Sent Us, admitted to firebombing and attacking dozens of Right to Life centers. They’ve also said they are going to escalate further. Our government couldn’t be bothered dealing with leftwing terrorism though.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  165. An unconscionable mistake for me, oops!

    urbanleftbehind (a9060b)

  166. frosty, I think you’re denying DeSantis’ political control over GOP affairs in FL just like you’ve denied Trump’s post-presidential control over the GOP nationally. The proof is in the outcomes. He was also recently put in charge of redistricting the congressional maps.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  167. Natural resources are already nationalized, NJRob. They are the property of the sovereign. Always have been in Western law. But I do sometimes worry that the Koch brothers are not rich enough.

    nk (b80869)

  168. Nic (896fdf) — 6/16/2022 @ 3:51 pm

    @sammy@154 Legally speaking at this point, why would it matter if Eastman though something would be taken up by the court or not?

    That’s a way of saying the law was not against him/

    Eastman’s opinion was brought up as a way of arguing that he knew what he proposed Mike Pence do was not good law.

    I think Eastman was probably lying to Donald Trump. Both about the law and about the practical effect of Mike Pence doing what John Eastman proposed. It would <b? not result in Trump winning the election,

    But that's what he probably told Trump, But when talking to Mike Pence's aides, and with them arguing with him, arguing with him he would back down.

    The question I have is: Was John Eastman being paid for his services? We haven't heard a word about that, (lawyers don't like to talk about fees and who's paying, if anybody, but if that is true, the committee must know because there are so many ways to know. If Eastman was being paid that would explain a lot.

    So far the only person confirmed to have been paid money was Kimberly Guilfoyle, the now fiancee of Donald Trump Jr and ex-wife of Gavin Newsome She got $60,000 officially in return for showing up at the Ellipse and giving a 3-minute speech at the Save Amerca rally on January 6, 2021. (The committee released that fact as part of an argument that some money of the $250 million raised to fight the "fraud" and related matters was misappropriated)

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  169. Eastman gives shysters a bad name, but he didn’t tell Trump anything that Trump was not salivating to hear.

    nk (6b2c1c)

  170. Nic (896fdf) — 6/16/2022 @ 3:51 pm

    He knew that regardless of his personal opinion, the action was illegal and that the law would be decided as constitutional.

    John Eastman when cross-questioned by Pence’s aides, acknoledged that Mike Pence had no authority to do what he proposed (but he claimed it was not a justiciable question)

    And I think he told Rudolph Giuliani and Donald Trump it was both legal snd would work. (Giuliani and Trump were also being told lies aboutw=what state legislatures would do (it was both legally invalid and politically impossib;e

    Giuliani has said (in general about 2019) he was not being paid but we don’t know sbout Eastman.

    I could decide that some law was unconstitutional IMO and willfully violate it and my butt would still go to jail.

    It depends.

    How is the idea that what they are doing is illegal and the law would be judged as constitutional but they might get away with overthrowing the government anyway a justifiable argument?

    It was an argument it would never get into court.

    “No coup because no force was involved.” (sometimes called a soft coup if it is done by legal manuvering)

    There seems to have been enough of a concern about Trump directed force being used against Pence even before Jan 6th that his staff spoke with his secret service about it.

    A member of his staff was worried but nit about Trump himself directly causing it.

    There was definitely a threat of force when Trump directed the mod at Pence with his tweet.

    He wsas condoning it, not directing it.

    And I would say that Eastman’s phone-call to Jacobs following the mod was an implication of force, even though Jacobs chose not to share Eastman’s suggestion to Pence.

    It was continuing the argument about Pence not being able to ignore the Electoral Count Act. That is: Didn’t they ignore it when they recessed in the middle of as a debate about Arizona, and Pence left the podium in the face of the mob? Where did he get the right to do that? The Electorsl Count Act said nothing about that. But say it’s OK to leave rather than…wait to be killed? If Pence could recess the session for that reason he could recess it for any other reason.

    What good would that do Trump?

    They seem to think that it would’ve stopped the certification and that either Pence would be unable to fulfill his duties or that he would cave to Trump’s threats.

    They had a plan to delay it for a day through objections. Now Trump needed more than that.Eastman wanted ten days. The mob could not do that. I think that once it started Trump hoped Republicans would cave in. He was making up plans on the fly.

    I think Eastman was lying to Trump. Maybe he wanted to keep getting paid. I don’t know. Maybe he was afraid Trump would do something dangerous (but nothing so stupid as a riot) if he didn’t see a way to win peacefully. In either case he kept giving Trump hope.

    Trump would have had to be in secret contact with the plotters.

    He also would, have had to be pursuing two strategies at odds with each other.

    No he wouldn’t have. The public contact was sufficient. Get them there ready for action, rile them up, send them out, see what happens and take advantage of that.

    That;s absolutely not ttrue. The assault on the Capitol wss planned in advance.. His words that day had nothingmuch to do with it/

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  171. 168, not so much political control from the FL gov but legislature’s cohesiveness with the governor’s agenda and simple majority – there was no need for “Deltona”, “Doral” or “Dr. Phillips” kickbacks for reluctant legislators from the same party as with Obamacare.

    urbanleftbehind (a9060b)

  172. “That;s absolutely not ttrue. The assault on the Capitol wss planned in advance.. His words that day had nothingmuch to do with it”

    Proud Boys certainly headed over before the speech, but are you saying that NO ONE from the Ellipse ended up joining the siege? Ashli Babbitt seemed pretty fired up. It’s also not clear to what degree Steve Bannon or Roger Stone knew about pre-planning and whether they were in contact with any of the Trump people or Trump himself. Trump’s deliberate inaction goes to state of mind. If he was against the riot, then why did he ignore the appeals of his closest advisors and choose to do or say nothing? It appears he was fine with chaos and trying to spook Mike Pence.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  173. @166, As usual your assertions is wrong.

    The FBI is investigating recent attacks on pregnancy centers ahead of a Supreme Court decision on Roe v. Wade as potential acts of domestic violent extremism, the bureau said Friday.

    “The FBI is investigating a series of attacks and threats targeting pregnancy resource centers and faith-based organizations across the country,” the FBI said in a statement. “The FBI takes all threats seriously and we continue to work closely with our law enforcement partners and will remain vigilant to protect our communities.”

    The bureau asked anyone who has information on the attacks or potential threats to alert law enforcement, call their local FBI field office or email tips.fbi.gov.

    Time123 (4ec92e)

  174. FWO wrote

    Jennifer Granholm, who inexplicably keeps getting high-level work despite being one of the dumbest politicians of the 21st century, actually made this very argument the other day.

    That’s not remotely true. She’s not even the dumbest person to be a female governor of MI.

    Time123 (4ec92e)

  175. Same old Patterico–doofuses are going to doof. Reason why I don’t visit much anymore. OTOH there was a nugget at the top of the pile of stuff–Gascon’s policy will pay for funeral of a cop killer.

    Comanche Voter (a15ae2)

  176. Granholm is a Dem 8, a Repub 5.

    urbanleftbehind (a9060b)

  177. There’s a touch of Tedtoo in lovely Jennifer; she was born in Canada, too.

    DCSCA (bd8dce)

  178. But the cascade of energy crises of the 1970s should have made us change our ways, at least in this one area.

    But NIMBY to a refinery, eh. Gary, Indiana is a place to drive by– especially if you’re down wind that day. ;-).

    The ignorance of the breadth and scope of how oil companies operate both domestically and worldwide- from exploration to actual drilling; leasing rights, regional and national regulation requirements, product resevoirs; tank farms, tanker trafficking to storage and distribution; pipeline and refinery ops- research, exploration, and investment, etc., remains staggaring. TWhat dummies at the pump have learned from the 1970s is how to pump their own gas as O&O service stations are fast going the way of the Sinclair dinosaur– [except in Jersey.] 😉

    But then, a nation of lazy brained boobs elected an imbecile from petro-chemical rich Delaware POTUS, too.

    “It’s simple economics. Today it’s oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?… Not now – then! Ask ’em when they’re running out. Ask ’em when there’s no heat in their homes and they’re cold. Ask ’em when their engines stop. Ask ’em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won’t want us to ask ’em. They’ll just want us to get it for ’em!”- Higgins [Cliff Robertson] ‘Three Days of the Condor’ 1975

    DCSCA (bd8dce)

  179. 166… sad but very true, Rob. Garland has so far declined to even investigate, let alone prosecute.

    Anyone who says otherwise is a LIAR.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  180. “The Justice Department official who investigates attacks on reproductive health care facilities has been a staunch critic of pro-life crisis pregnancy centers, dozens of which have been vandalized by abortion supporters over the past month. . . . Clarke’s stance on the centers offers a potential explanation for the Justice Department’s refusal to investigate a string of attacks on pro-life centers since the May 2 leak of a draft Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. Sen. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.) asked Attorney General Merrick Garland last week to investigate the incidents as acts of domestic terrorism. Garland has yet to open an investigation.”

    https://pjmedia.com/columns/stephen-kruiser/2022/06/17/the-morning-briefing-pro-abortion-baby-killers-are-gettiing-dangerously-bold-n1606025

    Colonel Haiku (db798c)

  181. Time123 (4ec92e) — 6/17/2022 @ 8:33 am

    As usual, you can’t be bothered to respond to what I actually wrote. The leftwing terrorist organization admitted to their actions and said they were going to escalate further. But that doesn’t fit in with Biden and the AG’s lies about white supremacist terrorism being the biggest threat to the nation.

    NJRob (57c3cd)

  182. Rob, You’re wrong. You wrote this:

    Speaking of a boiling frog, a leftwing terrorist organization, Ruth Sent Us, admitted to firebombing and attacking dozens of Right to Life centers. They’ve also said they are going to escalate further. Our government couldn’t be bothered dealing with leftwing terrorism though.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 6/17/2022 @ 6:31 am

    Bold is mine.

    I pointed out this:

    The FBI is investigating recent attacks on pregnancy centers ahead of a Supreme Court decision on Roe v. Wade as potential acts of domestic violent extremism, the bureau said Friday.

    “The FBI is investigating a series of attacks and threats targeting pregnancy resource centers and faith-based organizations across the country,” the FBI said in a statement. “The FBI takes all threats seriously and we continue to work closely with our law enforcement partners and will remain vigilant to protect our communities.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/fbi-investigating-attacks-pregnancy-centers-potential-acts-domestic-violent-extremism

    How does the FBI’s actions of investigating this as an act of domestic violent extremism NOT refute your assertion that the government can’t be bothered to deal with these violent acts?

    Shouldn’t your response have been “Good, I’m glad the government is investigating this a the violent, extremist crime it clearly is.”?

    Also, do you have a link to where they claimed credit?

    Time123 (4ec92e)

  183. Is it true the Biden piñata is the biggest seller in Tijuana’s shanty markets? Asking for 333 million friends. 😉

    DCSCA (fd74ed)

  184. CH, please see the link i provided. Your claim that they’ve declined to investigate is incorrect. We’re you unaware of that or were you misrepresenting the facts again?

    Time123 (4ec92e)

  185. Biden under fire for ‘uncouth’ condolences after saying Jo-Ann Stores CFO ‘dropped dead’

    President Joe Biden took the time during a speech Thursday to express his condolences to the mourning family of Jo-Ann Stores CFO Matt Susz, whose sudden death had just been announced the day before. However, the tribute fell flat for many observers after the president said Susz had “dropped dead.”

    The moment occurred during remarks ahead of Biden signing the Ocean Shipping Reform Act of 2022 at the White House, where members of Congress and company executives were in attendance to celebrate the new law aimed at lowering shipping costs on U.S. goods. In addressing Jo-Ann Stores CEO Wade Miquelon, who was present for the gathering, Biden said, “By the way, my sympathies to your – the family of your CFO, who dropped dead very unexpectedly. My best to their family, that’s tough stuff.”

    The president’s sentiment appeared heartfelt, but once clips of his comments began circulating online, users weighed in. Reactions ranged from several memes of people cringing to critics saying that Biden’s gesture was “pretty heartless”, “very unsympathetic” and “very uncouth.” Some people joked that the words “dropped dead” would never be seen on a sympathy card, while others called the fumbled attempt at condolences embarrassing.… The president has also long been prone to gaffes, some of which have been dismissed by supporters as an innocent part of his nature, and others seen by critics as potentially damaging to the U.S. on the world stage.’ – FoxNews.com

    Uncouth for Scranton? Or is it Wilmington this week. Next time, Joey, just pretend you’re a POTUS at Dover AFB, stare at your watch, mutter, ‘time’s up’– then go into your Groucho: ‘Hello, I must be going.’

    DCSCA (fd74ed)

  186. CH, please see the link i provided. Your claim that they’ve declined to investigate is incorrect. We’re you unaware of that or were you misrepresenting the facts again?

    Time123 (4ec92e) — 6/17/2022 @ 12:03 pm

    Don’t hold your breath for either CH or NJRob to acknowledge the facts. They engage in hit and run disinformation.

    Rip Murdock (afc356)

  187. They engage in hit and run disinformation.

    … Said the Tesla driver w/t 500 mile long extension cord. 😉

    DCSCA (fd74ed)

  188. Time123 (4ec92e) — 6/17/2022 @ 11:59 am

    Good, I’m glad the bureau has elevated their concern for these attacks to their level of concern for angry parents at a school board meeting

    JF (faa62d)

  189. JF, do you have any examples of the FBI opening investigations at angry parents? I don’t recall any actual investigations, but I might have missed it.

    Time123 (38754d)

  190. They engage in hit and run disinformation.
    Rip Murdock (afc356) — 6/17/2022 @ 12:19 pm

    i’ll bet they sign petitions with their real name though

    JF (faa62d)

  191. Pro-abortion terrorism is no different than the pro-life terrorism. Both should equally be condemned and prosecuted.

    Rip Murdock (afc356)

  192. They engage in hit and run disinformation.
    Rip Murdock (afc356) — 6/17/2022 @ 12:19 pm

    i’ll bet they sign petitions with their real name though

    JF (faa62d) — 6/17/2022 @ 12:25 pm

    As do I. Trolled again.

    Rip Murdock (afc356)

  193. 3rd person dies in Alabama church shooting; suspect was ‘occasional attendee’
    …….
    The 74-year-old suspect, who has not been identified, was attending a “Boomers Potluck” gathering at St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church in Vestavia Hills, when he at some point “produced a handgun” and “began shooting,” said Vestavia Hills police Capt. Shane Ware.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (afc356)

  194. Time123 (38754d) — 6/17/2022 @ 12:24 pm

    you didn’t get the memo?

    JF (faa62d)

  195. Again, JF deflects from the actual question.

    Rip Murdock (afc356)

  196. JF, maybe you didn’t check the link. That isn’t an investigation it’s a

    “That’s all it’s about. And all it asks is for federal law enforcement to consult with, meet with local law enforcement to assess the circumstances, strategize about what may or may not be necessary to provide federal assistance, if it is necessary,

    Again, do you have any examples of the FBI actually opening an investigation? Or is this all in your head?

    Time123 (4ec92e)

  197. Time123 (4ec92e) — 6/17/2022 @ 12:41 pm

    the fbi did/didn’t open an investigation into ruth sent us/parents cuz they told you so

    you have zero evidence of either

    back it up

    JF (faa62d)

  198. RIP, I don’t really care what the motivation is. Using violence to further your political goals isn’t acceptable. I hope the people who have been burning down crisis pregnancy centers are caught and prosecuted. I also hope it happens soon so their aren’t any more attacks, and so that the system is shown to work regardless of who holds the White House. We need some of that.

    Time123 (4ec92e)

  199. @197. Crabgrass.

    In case you haven’t noticed, the house is on fire.

    DCSCA (fd74ed)

  200. @199, My evidence is a link to a fox article, what more would you like?

    Time123 (4ec92e)

  201. JF, I’ll type slowing something you can keep up; the memo doesn’t say they opened an investigation. It says local officials should call if they need help and the FBI should respond to those calls.

    Time123 (38754d)

  202. Ahh, my mistake. It was leftwing terrorist group “Jane’s Revenge” that said they committed the attacks. It was leftwing terrorist group “Ruth Sent Us” that is stalking Supreme Court justices and their kids. Easy to mix up.

    Now show me where the leftwing government, the AG or the President said they would go after these terrorists.

    NJRob (57c3cd)

  203. Time123 (4ec92e) — 6/17/2022 @ 12:46 pm

    I hope the people who have been burning down crisis pregnancy centers are caught and prosecuted.

    Only a person who is fanatically pro-abortion, so that he (it would be a he) doesn’t want any dissent, would target a crisis pregnancy center.

    What’s a crisis pregnancy center going to do? Cause there to bea few less abortions?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  204. Good news for righty, warmongering, safe at home comfy chair conservative ideologues who thrill at wasting billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars on other people’s conflicts; my USMC neighbor just informed me he has been ordered to deployed AGAIN– this time, not to Palau to war game again China– which he was stuck doing from July to December, 2021- but to the Ukraine region at a Marine base in POLAND to support USMC squadrons from Pendleton rotating in replacing East Coast squadrons which are having typical Yankee-Doodle-maintenance issues w/t aircraft– your multi-billion dollar DoD at work.

    He is not a happy camper. His ex-Marine wife and infant son are not amused.

    Attaboy, Joey. Carterrific!

    DCSCA (c05eff)

  205. “That;s absolutely not ttrue. The assault on the Capitol wss planned in advance.. His words that day had nothing much to do with it”

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/17/2022 @ 8:19 am

    Proud Boys certainly headed over before the speech, but are you saying that NO ONE from the Ellipse ended up joining the siege?

    Some people went to the Capitol, and a few into the building, but this was not the cause. I didn’t say no one, I said “nothing much”

    The main purpose the crowd served for the attackers was for them to hide among them.

    Ashli Babbitt seemed pretty fired up. It’s also not clear to what degree Steve Bannon or Roger Stone knew about pre-planning and whether they were in contact with any of the Trump people or Trump himself.

    Yes we don’t know.

    A big question is when did Trump cancel his appearance at the Capitol? (The Democrats who want to find him guilty of inciting said he never intended to be there)

    But we also know that people were lying to Trump.

    ’s deliberate inaction goes to state of mind. If he was against the riot, then why did he ignore the appeals of his closest advisors and choose to do or say nothing?

    He was never for the riot. Once it started, his main concern was that it should not cause members of Congress to turn against him.

    It appears he was fine with chaos and trying to spook Mike Pence.

    If something looked like it could help him, he wasn;t going to stop it.

    The question is who came up with the slogan “hang Mike Pence”

    I think it was someone who somehow believed that Mike Pence’s absence would stop the process – and if the process was stopped Trump would remain president, like in a Parliamentary system..

    But if there was no vice president, the process continued, as it had, most recently in the 1948 and 1964 elections.

    And if no president was chosen by January 20, and no vice president, the 20th amendment specified that Congress would say by law who would act as president and it had and third in line of succession was the Speaker of the House who was Nancy Pelosi. Period.

    https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/United_States_of_America_1992

    Section 3

    If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  206. It seems they couldn’t look away any longer…

    “The Biden administration’s “relative silence” over a growing number of attacks on churches, pregnancy resource centers and pro-life organizations over the abortion issue “endangers Americans even more,” said a coalition of pro-life and faith leaders.

    In a letter released June 16, the leaders called on the U.S. Department of Justice to publicly condemn the attacks, “commit to vigorous efforts to prevent them, and to investigate and prosecute them.”

    The letter to U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland and Assistant Attorney General Kristen Clarke was signed by about 30 leaders “representing millions of Americans.”

    The pro-life leaders acknowledged the FBI was “assisting at least one affected religious organization on this matter” and they said they were aware “through media reports” the agency was “at least investigating the firebombing” of a pro-life center in Madison, Wisconsin.

    “However, the severity of the situation calls for your leadership,” they wrote Garland and Clarke. “This continued assault on religious and pro-life groups because of their beliefs is a manifest injustice that requires prompt, comprehensive and public response.”

    They urged the Justice Department “to proactively engage with the affected faith communities to ensure their concerns and security needs are being met,” and they requested a meeting with Garland’s office as well as the department’s Civil Rights Division “to discuss what plans are in the likelihood these attacks will intensify.”

    A day before the pro-life coalition released its letter, more than 100 House Republicans sent a similar letter to Garland, calling on the Justice Department to investigate these incidents “as acts of domestic terrorism.”

    In a response to the lawmakers’ letter, the FBI issued a statement to news outlets June 16 saying the agency is investigating “a series of attacks and threats targeting pregnancy resource centers and faith-based organizations across the country.”

    “The FBI takes all threats seriously and we continue to work closely with our law enforcement partners and will remain vigilant to protect our communities,” a spokesperson for the FBI’s national press office told the Washington Examiner.

    The coalition of pro-life leaders who wrote to Garland and Clarke was organized by CatholicVote, a political advocacy group.

    Among the letter’s signatories were Greg Schleppenbach, associate director of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Secretariat for Pro-Life Activities; Jeanne Mancini, president of the March for Life Education and Defense Fund; Kristan Hawkins, president of Students for Life Action; and Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America.”

    https://catholicnews.com/justice-department-urged-to-address-violent-attacks-on-pro-life-centers/

    https://catholicnews.com/justice-department-urged-to-address-violent-attacks-on-pro-life-centers/

    Colonel Haiku (8044cb)

  207. Rob, according to Fox Janes revenge claimed credit for vandalism. I agree the should be investigated and prosecuted. But your statement that they claimed credit for the fires and other acts of terrorism appears to be unsupported.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/minnesota-pregnancy-center-vandalized-janes-revenge

    Time123 (38754d)

  208. “The FBI is investigating the rash of attacks and vandalism targeting anti-abortion activist groups and pregnancy centers across the country.

    The bureau told the Washington Examiner on Thursday [6/16] that it did not have a comment on any specific groups carrying out the violence but acknowledged an inquiry is underway.

    “The FBI is investigating a series of attacks and threats targeting pregnancy resource centers and faith-based organizations across the country,” a spokesperson for the FBI’s national press office said. “The FBI takes all threats seriously and we continue to work closely with our law enforcement partners and will remain vigilant to protect our communities.” The bureau urged the public to provide tips or information to law enforcement about any threats.”

    Colonel Haiku (8044cb)

  209. CH, thank you for correcting your error. Do you also retract your accusation that ppl who said this was being investigated were lying?

    Time123 (38754d)

  210. “The FBI is investigating recent attacks on pregnancy centers ahead of a Supreme Court decision on Roe v. Wade as potential acts of domestic violent extremism, the bureau said Friday.

    Cleared up just this morning. Not a goddam word or response to any inquiries before then.

    Colonel Haiku (8044cb)

  211. Guess you can’t bring yourself to retract your accusation of lying.

    Time123 (38754d)

  212. Not without a reason. You’ve told too many and on this issue, the DOJ/FBI came around late to the party.

    Colonel Haiku (4c9ead)

  213. Still waiting on our AG and Biden. But they are winking support at the terrorism as they are with the stalking of SC justices. Anything to push their agenda. By any means necessary.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  214. @214 CH, your claims of lies were false. But I don’t expect you to admit it or apologize. That would take integrity you’ve never shown.

    Time123 (a2b2f7)

  215. NJRob, your initial claim was that a left wing group had claimed credit for the fire bombing attacks. So far you haven’t shown that. You’ve found some that have claimed credit for vandalism and i hope the perpetrators are identified and prosecuted.

    But your initial claim is still unsupported.

    Time123 (a2b2f7)

  216. Wanted to add, if they find the ppl who committed the arsons I expect they will be left wingers and politically motivated.

    But that’s a much milder claim than what Rob made; that a left wing group had claimed “credit” for the attack and the fbi was ignoring it.

    As usual, Rob’s claims are so wildly divorced from reality as to be barely recognizable.

    Time123 (a2b2f7)

  217. Look who’s all spun up…

    Colonel Haiku (8b99b0)

  218. Time,

    you’re lying. I said Biden and the AG were ignoring it. They’re the government. Try and keep up.

    Are you saying that Jane’s Revenge isn’t a leftwing group?

    Please, continue…

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  219. No Rob, I’m not.

    You made 2 factional statements

    Speaking of a boiling frog, a leftwing terrorist organization, Ruth Sent Us, admitted to firebombing and attacking dozens of Right to Life centers. They’ve also said they are going to escalate further. Our government couldn’t be bothered dealing with leftwing terrorism though.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 6/17/2022 @ 6:31 am

    Both are false.

    Ruth Sent Us did not admit to firebombing anything. They admitted to vandalism.
    The Government is investigating this as violent domestic extremism.

    Why not just admit your initial claim was exaggerated and walk it back to something that’s factual?

    Time123 (816a30)


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