Patterico's Pontifications

6/9/2022

GOP Working To Dissuade Americans From Watching Jan. 6 Committee “Witch Hunt”. What Don’t They Want You To Know?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:25 am



[guest post by Dana]

The first Jan. 6 Committee hearing is airing tonight at 8 PM EST.

In the meantime, House GOP members are working to minimize the importance of the Jan. 6 Committee and the hearing:

House Republicans are casting Thursday’s prime-time hearing by the committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol as a media production aimed at smearing former President Trump.

The effort by Republicans to push back at the hearing has started days before the spectacle is set to be carried live by the major networks and news networks — with the notable exception of Fox News Channel, which will air its regular programming.

The GOP is arguing the effort is just meant to distract voters from inflation and crime, two issues that Republicans expect to be a big part of their effort to win back the House and Senate this fall.

“*They are scrambling to change the headlines, praying that the nation will focus on their partisan witch hunt instead of our pocketbooks. It will not work,” House Republican Conference Chairwoman Elise Stefanik (N.Y.) said in a Wednesday press conference.

Stefanik, who replaced Rep. Liz Cheney (Wyo.) — one of two Republicans on the Jan. 6 panel — as conference chair, called it a “smear campaign against President Donald Trump.”

More:

On Tuesday, the House GOP hosted a press call on the Jan. 6 hearing with a number of conservative outlets but did not invite or include many mainstream outlets, including NBC News, Politico and The Hill. It is a move that the GOP conference also made in January when discussing the Capitol riot around the time of its first anniversary.

Outlets on the Tuesday call included Breitbart, The Washington Examiner and The Federalist, according to a source familiar with the call.

Republicans have long countered the committee’s work by pointing to security failures at the Capitol that day and accusing Pelosi of not doing enough to keep the campus secure.

They have not wanted to focus on Trump’s involvement in the rioting.

The GOP is also trying to use the fact that the Jan. 6 Committee enlisted the aid of former ABC President James Goldston to produce the hearing can only diminish the credibility of the hearing. Goldston has been accused of killing a story about Jefferey Epstein. Apparently, according to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, because of the former producer’s involvement, the hearing will just be “political theatre.” I’m not exactly sure how the GOP figures that the producer of the hearing can change or alter or have any real impact on actual witness statements and testimony…

Anyway, this effort to detract from the actual meat of the hearings – interviews from more than 1,000 witnesses, testimony, and statements – is a painfully obvious effort to cover up any wrongdoings, and particularly, the wrongdoings of the former president. And that is one of the most disappointing features of today’s GOP: the lack of interest in uncovering the truth and rooting out wrongdoers and law breakers, no matter who they might be. Instead, that honorable pursuit has been replaced by a collective effort to detract from any findings. Once upon a time, the Republican Party would have been working furiously to ferret out the who-what-where-when actions of anyone involved in an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. That’s no longer what today’s Republican Party is about. Something has gone seriously wrong. And the efforts to minimize the Jan. 6 Committee and attempts to dissuade Americans from learning more about a (hopefully) once-in-our-lifetime event would seem to confirm that.

I’ll leave you with this because I’ve been thinking along the same lines. There is more than just one reason that these hearings are so important:

As you watch the House January 6th Committee’s primetime hearings, keep the following top of mind: The committee is not just examining the past. All the conditions that resulted in the violent assault on the U.S. Capitol, on Congress while it was discharging a vital constitutional duty, and on more than 140 police officers remain clear and present.

Donald Trump is still the uncontested leader of the Republican party. His base still clings to the idea the 2020 election was stolen and is nominating election-denying candidates to powerful positions in key swing states. Members of extremist groups that led the charge to the Capitol now have footholds in state and local GOP organizations all over the country. And all the affiliated members of Trump’s elite political, advocacy, and media class remain willing to assist Trump in carrying out his desires.

So don’t settle into the hearings thinking about them as a history lesson. They’re an active threat assessment.

And given that the congresswoman who replaced Rep. Cheney as conference chair referred to the hearings as a “witch hunt,” makes it very clear that the same conditions that lead to the insurrection on Jan. 6 do indeed remain solidly in place.

(*It is indeed possible for both Democrats and Republicans to focus on more than one issue at a time. And that’s certainly true of Americans, as well.)

–Dana

279 Responses to “GOP Working To Dissuade Americans From Watching Jan. 6 Committee “Witch Hunt”. What Don’t They Want You To Know?”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Sixty years ago today.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  3. Correction, sixty-eight years ago today.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  4. At the same time the corruption in DC gives a sweetheart deal to leftist terrorists after already having harsher charges approved and agreed to. But Flynn was destroyed and the Jan 6th protesters are a threat to democracy. What a joke our society has become.

    Not to mention the corruption going down in Michigan.

    Carry on with the bread and circuses between the show trials.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  5. The Jan 6 protestors broke into the Capitol in an attempt to use mob force to make Congress reject certification of a duly certified election, while chanting about killing the vice President and erecting a gallows on the back of the building.

    They were *absolutely* a threat to democracy, by far the biggest internal threat to our system in my lifetime.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  6. Most of America will be out searching for baby food formula, the cheapest gas in town, the best deals on beef and bread, watching QVC… or Gutfeld!

    DCSCA (1b72b1)

  7. This wasn’t Brooks’ best work.
    The J6 Committee and reforming the Electoral Count Act are separate subjects, the latter of which should passed by next years.
    If the J6 establishes a solid timeline and factual record without too much political hype and drama, then mission accomplished. If anyone thinks their work will have any effect on the midterms, then they’ve forgotten Carville’s words that “it’s the economy, stupid”.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  8. Er, passed by next year.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  9. The GOP is also trying to use the fact that the Jan. 6 Committee enlisted the aid of former ABC President James Goldston to produce the hearing can only diminish the credibility of the hearing.

    My question is why the J6 Committee need a producer for the hearing. Is this a Congressional hearing or made-for-TV movie?

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  10. It’s been clear for some time that GOP leadership and base view efforts to steal elections as acceptable.
    Any view to the contrary is anathema.
    Any discussion about accountability for the people who attempted to do that might harm public perception and is therefore bad, regardless of what crimes were attempted.

    Time123 (4c71ac)

  11. So, what’s going on in Michigan where they’ve tossed most of the GOP gubernatorial candidates off the ballot? Politics seems particularly dirty in Michgan, dirty enough to make one wonder about how they count ballots.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  12. Carville’s words that “it’s the economy, stupid”.

    And right now the economy IS stupid. Can California’s Democrats keep power when their base is paying $8/gallon for gasoline for their 60 mile drive into work? At least that part of their base that works.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  13. 10) Yeah, it’s not clear to me there.

    I’m ready to say that the riots on J6, including property damages and assaults on officers should be prosecuted to the letter of the way.

    But, to say that the “efforts to steal elections as acceptable” is a stretch.

    I think part of the problem, is this conflation of those who questions how the 2020 elections were conducted in some states as those who supports the idea of a stealing the election.

    There’s no bipartisan desire to hold people accountable here. You have a party, Democrats, who seeks to use J6 as a political cudgel towards Republicans up for elections in 2022. I would argue that it is the Democrats, who’s refusing to engage in good faith on proper J6 accountability, in lieu of using this as a partisan political process.

    This is literally a dog & pony show, and I would bet good money that most Americans recognizes that.

    whembly (ea5e48)

  14. Hi Time123: Is / was Kris Kobach’s effort to review voter registration records with the goal of eliminating outdated or duplicate records an example of GOP effort to “steal elections” ?

    Did the review of the 2000 very close-run election in Florida leading to the elimination of “butterfly ballots” represent an effort to steal elections? How would review of Dominion voting machines in close run elections of 2020 be different?

    If county officials can change ballot handling procedures from the traditional interpretation of processes established by state legislatures, (as was accomplished in reaction to COVIC transmission fears) can these changes be made permanent without the legislature? Even if two counties in the same state wind up with different procedures? Are attempts to harmonize or reconcile the procedures also an example of efforts to steal elections?

    Is anyone else here as deeply offended by folks tossing around the word “steal” as using the related word “fraud” ?

    Pouncer (fbc77b)

  15. > So, what’s going on in Michigan where they’ve tossed most of the GOP gubernatorial candidates off the ballot?

    If you take them at face value, the issue is that enough of the signatures on their petitions were invalid that they failed to get enough signatures to meet the qualification threshold.

    Considering that these are mostly people who want absentee votes tossed for failed signature matches more aggressively than is currently done, I think it’s hilarious, and their protesting feels very selfish and priviliged — the rules apply to others, but not to them.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  16. When you have the GOP’s Kevin McCarthy saying that every American bears responsibility for Jan. 6, you know the party remains willfully dishonest and unwilling to let those who are responsible assume that responsibility.

    Dana (1225fc)

  17. The guy who was going to assassinate Kavanaugh had more guns than the entire group being prosecuted (persecuted actually) of Jan 6 people for an “insurrection”.
    Just another example of the idiocy of the democrats and those who worship at their alter.

    David Longfellow (f7430d)

  18. Poor programming by Team Nancy & Liz; TCM will be airing several Sam Peckinpah classics at this evening- Wild Bunch, Ballad of Cable Hogue, etc. Stella Stevens is a better looker than Liz; colorful blood squibs exploding as Bill Holden rakes a machine gun across a crowd always draws an audience, too. Tough break, Nancy; too bad Liz. Should have hired that ABC producer sooner.

    DCSCA (1b72b1)

  19. “the lack of interest in uncovering the truth and rooting out wrongdoers and law breakers”

    Unless it’s Hunter Biden (who replaced Hillary Clinton when she was no longer relevant)

    “the Republican Party would have been working furiously to ferret out the who-what-where-when actions of anyone involved”

    But like Republicans who looked the other way with Reagan during Iran-Contra, the vast majority simply don’t want to believe Trump did anything wrong…..and that a spirited protest devolved into a riot is not his fault….nor is it his fault for not condemning the riot or calling for them to retreat sooner. The majority of Republicans want Trump as their voice….they believe in his message….they like that he fights….and they are willing to excuse how he fights. If it’s a little dirty (Zelensky call)…or unseemly (stop the steal)….or obstructive (Mueller)…or vindictive (long list), then so be it. This is further justified by things being worse under Biden than under Trump. The key isn’t having a better Republican — the key becomes believing that only Trump can Make America Great Again. We’re stuck in bad think.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  20. Whembly, I don’t dispute that the Dems are trying to make political hay with this. That’s what happens when the political opponent does something wrong. That doesn’t mean the efforts to understand what happened and hold bad actors accountable is inherently illegitimate.

    But the GOP has refused every effort to address Jan 6, starting with the offer to set up a independent committee.

    Addressing this would be politically damaging so they don’t want to.

    Time123 (4c71ac)

  21. @14, Pouncer, hundreds of Trump supporters physically assaulted the police and seized control of the US capital through force in a clearly stated effort to stop the lawful transfer of power.

    Is “steal” the wrong word for that?

    At the same time and leading up to that Members of the administration were pushing a variety of not legal schemes to keep Trump in office despite losing the vote.

    Is “steal” the wrong word for that?

    Time123 (4c71ac)

  22. “There’s no bipartisan desire to hold people accountable here. You have a party, Democrats, who seeks to use J6 as a political cudgel towards Republicans up for elections in 2022. I would argue that it is the Democrats, who’s refusing to engage in good faith on proper J6 accountability, in lieu of using this as a partisan political process.”

    The Republicans blocked a bipartisan inquiry. They’re the ones refusing to engage in good faith. To the Republicans, “proper J6 accountability” is no discussion and no accountability at all.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  23. Is / was Kris Kobach’s effort to review voter registration records with the goal of eliminating outdated or duplicate records an example of GOP effort to “steal elections” ?

    Kobach’s intentions were alright, but the problem was his general incompetence.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  24. If you take them at face value, the issue is that enough of the signatures on their petitions were invalid that they failed to get enough signatures to meet the qualification threshold.

    Considering that these are mostly people who want absentee votes tossed for failed signature matches more aggressively than is currently done, I think it’s hilarious, and their protesting feels very selfish and priviliged — the rules apply to others, but not to them.

    aphrael (4c4719) — 6/9/2022 @ 11:30 am

    Not only that, it was willful forgery by the paid circulators, who can receive up to $20 per signature, which is a great incentive for fraud. The disqualification of the five candidates was upheld by the State Supreme Court, which basically said that the candidates suing the Board of State Canvassers did not demonstrate that the Board had a clear legal duty to certify names to the ballot. A Republican Justice agreed, saying that even if the plaintiff demonstrated that the Bureau of Elections erred by failing to check every signature against the qualified voter file, he would only be entitled to that relief, not the placement of his name on the ballot. In fact, a Democrat Justice dissented from the majority, saying he would allow oral argument in the case.

    This scandal has also affected initiatives in Michigan. Some of the initiatives that failed to qualify include:

    Secure MI Vote, which would require voter ID for in-person voting and absentee ballot applications and ban outside election funds.

    Audit Michigan, which would force a “forensic audit” of the 2020 election and change how Michigan conducts audits after elections.

    Decertify MI, which would declare Donald Trump as winner of the 2020 presidential election and “decertify” the election results in Michigan.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  25. TCM will be airing several Sam Peckinpah classics at this evening- Wild Bunch, Ballad of Cable Hogue, etc.

    Seen them all in a movie theater. Bigger picture, bigger sound.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  26. @19 Yet, it was Nancy Pelosi who refused 2 GOPers to sit in the current committee, as afforded by the rules (that’s a precedent that’s going to bit Democrats in the ass in the future).

    That should show that Democrat wasn’t interested in good faith accountability for J6, and that their only interest is a political pound-o-flesh extraction. Really, it’s the same mindset that infected them during Trump’s 2nd impeachment investigation/hearing.

    whembly (867f2f)

  27. Whemby, are you asserting that Jordan and Banks were planning to engage in good faith investigations?

    Time123 (4c71ac)

  28. “Yet, it was Nancy Pelosi who refused 2 GOPers to sit in the current committee, as afforded by the rules (that’s a precedent that’s going to bit Democrats in the ass in the future).

    That should show that Democrat wasn’t interested in good faith accountability for J6, and that their only interest is a political pound-o-flesh extraction. Really, it’s the same mindset that infected them during Trump’s 2nd impeachment investigation/hearing.”

    She blocked Gym Jordan and Jim Banks, neither of whom have any interest in good faith or accountability. And, once again, they could have avoided this if they hadn’t blocked the bipartisan committee.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  29. The Republican position from day 1 has always been “No investigation whatsoever”, and have worked to block or poison any attempts otherwise. Claiming the Democrats aren’t acting in good faith is laughable.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  30. I’m not exactly sure how the GOP figures that the producer of the hearing can change or alter or have any real impact on actual witness statements and testimony…

    Anyway, this effort to detract from the actual meat of the hearings – interviews from more than 1,000 witnesses, testimony, and statements

    They won’t be able to have all 1000 witnesses, testimony, and statements. Someone has to decide what gets on the air, what is presented to the public and how it’s presented. I’m pretty sure that if you let an R pick what gets on air you’d get a different picture of events. Unless you’re thinking that’s not true. In which case why care which Rs get on the committee in the first place?

    I understand that it’s important to pretend this isn’t a media production. But it’s a media production even if you think it’s essential.

    frosty (dcd693)

  31. Whemby, are you asserting that Jordan and Banks were planning to engage in good faith investigations?

    Time123 (4c71ac) — 6/9/2022 @ 11:59 am

    Are you asserting that Adam Schiff is?

    frosty (dcd693)

  32. Yet, it was Nancy Pelosi who refused 2 GOPers to sit in the current committee, as afforded by the rules…

    The “as afforded by the rules” part is relevant. I’m not sure about Banks, but the J6 Committee shouldn’t have a member who is a literal subject of their investigation, what with his phone calls with Trump on Insurrection Day.

    We not only have news about a MI candidate for governor, there’s other batsh-t going on in my party.

    “[M]any people don’t voice their opinion or just become, see it as utter futility,” Hunt said. “How do you rouse the population? How do you get people thinking about the possibility of change here in New York state and what that might mean for our, for everyone here?”

    “I was thinking the other day about — somebody had mentioned on the radio Adolf Hitler and how he aroused the crowds,” Paladino responded, chuckling a little bit as he said the Nazi dictator’s name. “And he would get up there screaming these epithets and these people were just — they were hypnotized by him. That’s, I guess, I guess that’s the kind of leader we need today. We need somebody inspirational.”

    His first thought about inspiring New Yorkers is Hitler?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  33. @26

    Whemby, are you asserting that Jordan and Banks were planning to engage in good faith investigations?

    Time123 (4c71ac) — 6/9/2022 @ 11:59 am

    I’m asserting that McCarthy had every right to select Jordan and Banks as dictated by committee rules.

    I’m asserting that Pelosi unilaterally prohibiting certain members from sitting in a committee is trashing normal congressional procedures, such that a future GOP majority will point to as to why they’re prohibiting certain Democrats from sitting in certain committees.

    Furthermore, even *if* Jordan and Banks are MAGA-head blowhards, McCarthy as the House Minority Leader has every right to nominate Jordan and Banks.

    At the very least, it would’ve given this J6 committee a stronger bipartisan position than current committee. Right now, this committee will only appeal to partisan Democrats and NeverTrumpers. It’s only fueling the whole “witch hunt” claims prepositioned by MAGA-heads and everyone else.

    whembly (7e0293)

  34. @30

    Are you asserting that Adam Schiff is?

    frosty (dcd693) — 6/9/2022 @ 12:14 pm

    I would throw in Jaime Raskins too… as, he legit objected to Trump electoral votes in 2016.

    whembly (7e0293)

  35. Whembly, I can see how a Republican would be offended by those aspects. I also agree that they make the committee’s work less credible. Which isn’t the same thing as not credible. But i think the results can still be evaluated and lessons learned from them. I suspect those 2 were selected as poison pills. I also suspect they were rejected as pay back for Mccarthys bad faith negotiations on the independent committee. But that’s a supposition. I’m not particularly worried about the GOP doing the same thing in the future. If they kick Omar off a committee for some good reason I’m ok with that. If it’s pointless pay back then I’ll criticize it. But I don’t feel any kinship with the Dems that makes me
    Emotionally invested in how they as a party are treated.

    I don’t think there was ever any scenario where the current GOP leadership participated in this investigation in good faith. The way they handled the previous negations lead me to that conclusion.

    Time123 (65b49a)

  36. Seen them all in a movie theater. Bigger picture, bigger sound.

    But no zoom, repeat or free frame for the blood and gore set. Besides, Plenty to zoom in on the delicious Stella.

    DCSCA (3b6f2a)

  37. Considering that these are mostly people who want absentee votes tossed for failed signature matches more aggressively than is currently done, I think it’s hilarious, and their protesting feels very selfish and priviliged — the rules apply to others, but not to them.

    You are conflating things there. It’s not that they forgot to sign a ballot, it’s that they are the victims of a fraud — and possibly a partisan-inspired fraud. It only seemed to happen to GOP candidates for this one office.

    These are not fringe candidates that needed to forge signatures to meet the requirement, so the law is misapplied. The commission vote was party-line. Hopefully the courts won’t stand for the governor getting her opponents stuck off.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  38. And that is one of the most disappointing features of today’s GOP: the lack of interest in uncovering the truth and rooting out wrongdoers and law breakers, no matter who they might be

    i’m so old, I remember when we weren’t allowed to be disinterested in mueller/weissmann

    when no one other than the actual no name wrongdoers and law breakers get rooted out, that’s when we’ll see the real lack of interest

    in spades

    then it will be on to the next bogus investigation

    there’s always a next one

    JF (7c34a3)

  39. Considering that these are mostly people who want absentee votes tossed for failed signature matches more aggressively than is currently done

    Actually the real issue is undated, unpostmarked ballots received after the election.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  40. I’m asserting that Pelosi unilaterally prohibiting certain members from sitting in a committee is trashing normal congressional procedures, such that a future GOP majority will point to as to why they’re prohibiting certain Democrats from sitting in certain committees.

    After the GOP picks up 83 seats in November and expels a few Democrat members, all this will be forgotten.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  41. “You are conflating things there. It’s not that they forgot to sign a ballot, it’s that they are the victims of a fraud”

    I’m old enough to remember ACORN having this exact same issue and I don’t remember a lot of sympathy from Republicans.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  42. Hopefully the courts won’t stand for the governor getting her opponents stuck off.

    You would be wrong.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  43. Plenty to zoom in on the delicious Stella.

    She looks bigger on a movie screen.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. Nancy Pelosi who refused 2 GOPers to sit in the current committee

    She’s 82, talks with her hands and delusionally senile on par w/Squinty McStumblebum, who tripped going up the AF1 stairs AGAIN yesterday.

    Biden again trips up Air Force One stairs ahead of Jimmy Kimmel interview

    https://nypost.com/2022/06/08/biden-trips-up-air-force-one-stairs-again-ahead-of-jimmy-kimmel-interview/

    “‘I trust his judgment’.” Nancy Pelosi on POTUS Stumblebum as Afghanistan imploded, 8/25/21

    We’re a better people than these barnacles clinging to the ship of state. Scrape ’em off.

    DCSCA (3b6f2a)

  45. Davethulhu (054e7d) — 6/9/2022 @ 12:06 pm

    in a mere eight months you’ll be cheering “No investigation whatsoever” when the investigations of hunter, the border nonsense and the afghan withdrawal start

    JF (7c34a3)

  46. These are not fringe candidates that needed to forge signatures to meet the requirement, so the law is misapplied.

    I doubt the candidates had anything to do with it, they have all denied involvement. I think the motivating factor was the $20 per signature paid to the petition circulators.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  47. “in a mere eight months you’ll be cheering “No investigation whatsoever” when the investigations of hunter, the border nonsense and the afghan withdrawal start’

    Mind reading again?

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  48. Mind reading again?
    Davethulhu (054e7d) — 6/9/2022 @ 1:25 pm

    were you going to include your benghazi comments, or should i?

    JF (7c34a3)

  49. Mind reading again?

    Davethulhu (054e7d) — 6/9/2022 @ 1:25 pm

    Opening the betting pool on the time. I’m thinking it might take longer than eight months.

    frosty (dcd693)

  50. @44 Don’t threaten me with a good time.

    Time123 (f029d9)

  51. NASA has joined the search for the Supreme Court leaker.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  52. Kevin, based on that article there seems to be a lot of merit to the charges of forgery, and very little to charges that this is politically motivated.

    Time123 (f029d9)

  53. Breaking news:

    Multiple victims reported in ‘mass shooting’ in Maryland town

    Officials reported there were multiple victims following what one lawmaker described as a “mass shooting” in the Maryland town of Smithsburg on Thursday.

    “We are actively monitoring the mass shooting in #Smithsburg right now, and our office is in contact with officials on the ground. If you’re local, please stay away from the area as law enforcement responds,” Rep. David Trone (D-Md.) tweeted shortly before 4 p.m. Thursday. –

    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3517960-multiple-victims-reported-in-mass-shooting-in-maryland-town/

    ‘Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends… so glad you could attend, step inside, step inside…” – ‘Brain Salad Surgery’ Emerson, Lake & Palmer, 1973

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_zo0FiNheI

    DCSCA (8d82f3)

  54. “were you going to include your benghazi comments, or should i?”

    please do, nothing I’d love more than to relitigate benghazi

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  55. NASA has joined the search for the Supreme Court leaker.

    And what rhymes with UFO?

    ALITO.

    DCSCA (8d82f3)

  56. People who rely upon paid signature gatherers to secure ballot spots, rather than doing the hard work of convincing volunteers to donate their time to the cause, deserve to be fleeced by the people whom they hire.

    JVW (020d31)

  57. @55, my favorite part from Kevin’s link was one of the candidates withdrew because they didn’t want any of that stink on them.

    Time123 (f029d9)

  58. There are some differences between what Laura Ingraham, Brian Kilmeade, and Sean Hannity were saying privately on January 6th — and what the were saying publicly:

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  59. When Trump said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue, and not lose voters, he was insulting his strongest supporters. And when I see commenters evading the question posed in this post, I can’t help but wonder whether many of them deserve his insults.

    Now I don’t think any of the Trumpistas here will respond to the suggestion that they answer the question Dana posed — but I would be pleased (and mildly impressed) if any did.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  60. At least three people killed at factory in Western Maryland, governor says

    At least three people were killed and several others, including a Maryland State Trooper, were shot Thursday at a factory in Western Maryland, the governor’s office and the Washington County Sheriff’s Office said.

    Deputies said the shooting happened around 2:30 p.m. at the Сolumbia Machine factory in Smithsburg, about 10 miles east of Hagerstown. According to the company’s website, it produces molds and other concrete production equipment. -source, WBFF-TV, Baltimore

    DCSCA (8d82f3)

  61. People who rely upon paid signature gatherers to secure ballot spots, rather than doing the hard work of convincing volunteers to donate their time to the cause, deserve to be fleeced by the people whom they hire.

    JVW (020d31) — 6/9/2022 @ 1:55 pm

    True, but given the number of signatures required by states , it has created a whole industry. It’s way of restricting ballot access.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. @58 The first rule of responding to someone assuming the conclusion or circular reasoning is to not get on the merry-go-round. And it’s no accident that false accusation of evasion or dodging the question is the flip side of that coin.

    In this case there’s no reason to challenge the assumption behind the question. There’s no evidence given in the post that anyone is trying to hide anything. It shifts from “trying to hide” to “minimize” right away.

    frosty (dcd693)

  63. More importantly, why does Democratic “leadership” feel the need for a Hollyweird TV special production to support their “case”? Razzle Dazzle!

    The Dems gave their game plan away when they said in public what was supposed to be left unsaid: their objective is to recast the mid-term election and adversely impact Republican prospects in said election.

    Dems don’t have time to resolve problems they’ve created for America, but they’ve got plenty of time for this horseschiff.

    This pretty much captures the gravity of the situation: https://www.arcamax.com/politics/editorialcartoons/afbranco/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. Hollywood stars are experts at hyping coming attractions, and true to form, they are eagerly performing publicity duty for the Democrats’ big summer blockbuster — the primetime broadcast of the January 6 committee’s public hearings.

    Celebrities including Stephen Colbert, Rob Reiner, Bette Midler, Patton Oswalt, Alyssa Milano, Debra Messing, and Star Wars‘ Mark Hamill are urging their fans to tune in starting Thursday, promising “accountability” and a revelation of hitherto unknown findings.

    https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2022/06/09/hollywood-hypes-democrats-primetime-january-6-committee-hearing-video-pleas-popcorn-blockbuster-trailer/

    Too bad their fan base doesn’t know how to turn the channel away from Fox. Apparently the miniseries cannot be viewed any other way. Even if they do get that far, the Rethuglican blockade will hide the truth.

    Hopefully there is a live blog here.

    BuDuh (340919)

  65. If nationally elected members or significant employees of the R party were involved in the Jan 6th failed insurrection and the R party chose to do nothing about it, they deserve to have problems in the mid-terms. It should adversely impact Republican prospect in said election. That is the consequence of lousy decision making from the top.

    Nic (896fdf)

  66. Over/Under Viewers for the Circus
    81 million

    mg (8cbc69)

  67. 64… this has no traction, hence the smoke and mirrors. Democrats will pay an even heavier price in November because of this dereliction of duty. Americans have had enough of these anti-American clowns.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  68. @Haiku@66 Well, don’t worry about it then.

    Nic (896fdf)

  69. Nice to see Liz as point guard investigating administrations out of office. On dec, the Bush Cheney years, right, Lizzy? WMD? NYT plants? Go for it, gurl.

    DCSCA (68679e)

  70. Hm, “dereliction of duty” by Democrats, yet no mention or recognition of the former president’s egregious dereliction of duty. That’s rich.

    Dana (1225fc)

  71. @69. Well, he was impeached. Twice. And the GOP acquitted.

    DCSCA (68679e)

  72. Dana what did you expect? Putting the country or constitution first?

    Time123 (101538)

  73. But like Republicans who looked the other way with Reagan during Iran-Contra, the vast majority simply don’t want to believe Trump did anything wrong…..and that a spirited protest devolved into a riot is not his fault….nor is it his fault for not condemning the riot or calling for them to retreat sooner.

    AJ, the difference between this silly, costly show and the Iran-Contra matter- as well as Watergate, is that those scandals surfaced from the associated administrations still in power; this time they’re investigating an empty stall, after the horse has left the barn and pooped in the straw 18 months ago… as if it’s going to deter Trump from running again if he chooses to do so. Stormy Daniels and Billy Bush Trump tapes didn’t sink him; Nancy and Liz sure won’t.

    DCSCA (68679e)

  74. The Democrats havea problem.

    They are alleging acnspiracy that predated Trump’s speech, yet they want to make Trump part of the conspiracy for the riot. including with that speech.

    He was doing something else. And whatever he did his speech did, it did not and could not have incited the crowd to burst into the Capitol..

    Now you can say that Trump’s whole Stolen election” claim was a fraud and he excited political tensions, but something is missing from the syllogism.

    On the CBS Evening news I heard the claim made, stated as fact by Norah O”Donnell, that 5 policemen died as a result of the attack. (!!)

    Later it became clear that maybe most of that was suicide.

    It woud be better if there wsas no attempt to twist facts.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  75. 31. Why not at least compare himself to Fidel Castro?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  76. That’s thos Carl Paladino, Paul and Sammy. The guy who said Obama should catch mad cow and Michelle move back to Africa and marry a gorilla. A 100% homogenized New York sewer slime.

    nk (3ad000)

  77. FYI, the love hearing is beginning now.

    Dana (1225fc)

  78. Electric blue? how 90s. Liz even dresses like Hillary Clinton now.

    DCSCA (d9ec3c)

  79. Pelosi is 82 years old. She has no business saying anything other than “Will I get ice cream if I finish my creamed spinach? Chocolate? Please? Please?”

    How the blazes did we let these old fogies get so old and still remain in government? We’re like the mid-80s Soviet Union.

    nk (3ad000)

  80. How the blazes did we let these old fogies get so old and still remain in government? We’re like the mid-80s Soviet Union.

    Welcome to “The Parties.”

    DCSCA (d9ec3c)

  81. Wow, bar and ivanka both saying they don’t believe the election fraud claims. That’s gotta sting for the stop the steal crowd. At least the ones that believed it.

    Time123 (6fd47f)

  82. When is Ashli Babbitt testifying? Oh. Right. She’s unavailable. But then, neither is baby formula. And with gas at $7/gallon and 8.5% inflation raging, we see where Congresses head is at– a place oh-so-familiar to the Cheney clan.

    DCSCA (5e24d7)

  83. But like Republicans who looked the other way with Reagan during Iran-Contra

    “Did not fracking give a fracking frack” is closer to it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  84. You would be wrong.

    No, I said “hopefully.” But Michigan courts are apparently crooked, so it goes to the federal courts.

    This kind of game is old news in California. Organized opponents of initiatives have taken to intentionally signing initiative petitions falsely in the hope that signature collection costs would rise and normal methods of estimating the number of signatures actually needed would be low, resulting in insufficient submissions.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  85. In any event, watching these hearings. They seem to be walking all around it, but words like “sedition” and “coup” and statements like “Trump summoned a violent mob and set them to attack Congress” suggest that “treason” isn’t too strong a word.

    I still think it is possible that Biden’s DoJ will charge Donald Trump with serious crimes and put him on trial in DC, which as we all know is not his venue of choice.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  86. They seem to be walking all around it,

    With gas over $6 a gallon they sure as hell won’t drive. Have they aired Pierre Delecto running away from trouble yet?

    DCSCA (5e24d7)

  87. Paint drying on CSPAN3.

    DCSCA (5e24d7)

  88. The Seattle area Fox affiliate, Fox13, is now covering the hearings. (They weren’t at the beginning.)

    (Although they have two stations in the area, they don’t carry Tucker Carlson, or other opinion shows. on either.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  89. #84 Kevin, that possibility may be one reason Ivanka and Barr are trying to distance themselves from Trump.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  90. LOS ANGELES (AP) — Television viewers will find nearly blanket prime-time coverage of a Congressional hearing Thursday on the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, with the exception of Fox News Channel.

    Fox News will cover the first in a series of House Select Committee public hearings as “news warrants,” it said in a release, otherwise leaving intact its regular lineup including “Tucker Carlson Tonight.” Fox Business Network, Fox News Digital and other corporate siblings will carry the hearing, with Fox News’ Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum co-anchoring.

    On the broadcast side, Fox affiliate stations and those owned by Fox Corp. will have the opportunity but not the obligation to carry the hearing, the company said. With Fox News out of the scheduled mix — aside from a post-hearing special at 11 p.m. EDT — the most-watched cable network won’t add its heft to coverage.

    While Fox Business is among the top-rated business channels, its peak audience is in daytime, where it’s been averaging 227,000 viewers recently. In comparison, Fox News averaged 2 million prime-time viewers last week, and 1.3 million for the full day.

    Asked why Fox News Channel is foregoing full hearing coverage, a Fox spokesperson referred to a release that says viewers can find the proceeding on multiple Fox News Media cable and digital platforms.

    The hearing will reconstruct events leading up to the 2021 riot, including then-President Donald Trump’s refusal to concede the 2020 election based on false claims of voter fraud and the orchestrated effort to overturn Joe Biden’s victory.

    The Fox News approach is in marked contrast to the other major broadcast networks and cable news channels, which will be covering the 8-10 p.m. EDT hearing in whole. Fox News will air a post-hearing, two-hour special anchored by Fox News chief legal correspondent Shannon Bream, joined by Baier and MacCallum.

    CNN’s coverage will begin at 7 p.m. EDT, anchored by Jake Tapper and Anderson Cooper, and resume with post-hearing analysis and further reporting anchored by Don Lemon starting at 11 p.m. EDT.

    On MSNBC, Rachel Maddow, Nicolle Wallace and Joy Reid are in charge of coverage that begins at 7 p.m. EDT and will continue after the hearings with a special edition of “The 11th Hour” with Stephanie Ruhle.

    The broadcast networks are giving their nightly news anchors the prime position, with David Muir anchoring for ABC, Lester Holt for NBC and Norah O’Donnell for CBS, each starting at or close to 8 p.m. EDT.

    DCSCA (5e24d7)

  91. CNBC is also not covering it, although MSNBC and NBC itself are. I see no reason that the three major networks are insufficient for every viewer to have the opportunity to follow the proceedings. Wall-to-wall coverage is not an effort to offer choice, but to preclude it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  92. Lessee, on my streaming service ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox Business, BBC World News, ABC News Live, NBC News Now, NewsNation and NBC-LX are all covering it live and others are running later repeats and/or summaries. Is there anyone in the country that has a TV set who cannot watch this if they want?

    I don’t get it. When did diversity become bad?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  93. It is interesting that my local CBS station is following this with two episodes of “Bull.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  94. PBS YouTube covered it as well:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UiL2inz487U

    276,000 views with 9,400 likes.

    LOL.

    BuDuh (340919)

  95. Alex Bruesewitz
    @alexbruesewitz
    ·
    1m
    If you watch the video in the tweet above, Ray Epps clearly whispered in the ear of the protestor who pushed Officer Edwards.

    In the video they showed tonight they doctored that part out.

    Why didn’t the @January6thCmte want to show Epps whispering?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/alexbruesewitz/status/1535074323672596480

    Videos at the link.

    BuDuh (340919)

  96. @90 and @91; I can still sit in my house with the TV off enjoying a good book or spending time with my frosty friends. You’re evading the question. What are they trying to hide?

    We should all have to report to local viewing centers where it can be verified that we watched the appropriate content while also socially distancing.

    frosty (ded0da)

  97. @94 Ray Epps glows. But it’s not the soft neon FBI glow. Because Ray Epps was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on January 5th or 6th or at any other time.

    frosty (ded0da)

  98. The “viewing centers” will be coming to you, frosty:

    Secretary Mayorkas:
    WASHINGTON, DC 20510
    June 7, 2022
    Department of Homeland Security (DHS) information obtained by our offices through protected whistleblower disclosures raises serious concerns about DHS’s recently-paused Disinformation Governance Board (DGB) and the role the DGB was designed to play in DHS counter disinformation efforts. Documents show that, contrary to your May 4, 2022, testimony before the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, the DGB was established to serve as much more than a simple “working group” to “develop guidelines,…

    https://www.grassley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/grassley_hawley_to_deptofhomelandsecuritydisinformationgovernanceboard.pdf

    Assuming they aren’t already there.

    BuDuh (340919)

  99. NBC YouTube had 208,000 views with only 6,400 likes.

    It must have been as riveting as the Fox programming wizards predicted.

    BuDuh (340919)

  100. Is there anyone in the country that has a TV set who cannot watch this if they want?

    cutting the cord is a thing, so yeah there are people who can’t watch it

    let’s all say a prayer for them

    JF (c8dab8)

  101. Buduh, that isn’t actually a bad likes number for a news item that doesn’t contain a call to action (a call to action is when a youtuber says something like “please like and subscribe” or similar.). If you want to look at someone who is very popular and see what likes are like for a very popular youtuber who does do a call to action, check out someone like pewdiepie for comparison. Most still don’t clear 10%.

    Nic (896fdf)

  102. I’ll take your word for it.

    BuDuh (340919)

  103. We should all have to report to local viewing centers where it can be verified that we watched the appropriate content while also socially distancing.

    As O’Brien passed the telescreen a thought seemed to strike him. He stopped, turned aside and pressed a switch on the wall. There was a sharp snap. The voice had stopped.

    Julia uttered a tiny sound, a sort of squeak of surprise. Even in the midst of his panic, Winston was too much taken aback to be able to hold his tongue.

    ‘You can turn it off!’ he said.

    ‘Yes,’ said O’Brien, ‘we can turn it off. We have that privilege.’

    –Nineteen Eighty-Four

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  104. cutting the cord is a thing, so yeah there are people who can’t watch it

    let’s all say a prayer for them

    JF (c8dab8) — 6/9/2022 @ 7:46 pm

    Sure, but a digital antenna for over-the-air is like $25.

    I honestly doubt there’s that many people who want to watch this, but can’t. Unless there’s something really juicy like the stuff that came out in the Depp-Heard trial, that hasn’t already been hashed over a million times in the press by now, this is about the best we can expect.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  105. Sure, but a digital antenna for over-the-air is like $25.

    why should they have to shell out for that? and hook it up themselves?

    c’mon, this should be easier than voting by mail

    JF (7c34a3)

  106. This is funny.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  107. Chris Wallace was right, if you were bothered by the events of Jan 6th, today’s presentation was powerful….both from the perspective of weaving a number of narratives together and getting the promise of new revelations. For instance, a key piece of evidence was William Barr clearly telling Trump post-election that the election fraud claims were bullsh*t and that he couldn’t take part in any of that (good to see he had an actual line after all!)….and then Trump’s daughter stating, in effect, that Barr’s position was compelling….meaning dad’s choosing the follow loons

    On the other side of the ledger, if you think everything from Jan 6th is political hype and that Trump did nothing wrong, I’m not sure if this theater will move the needle much. It will likely just drive far away discussions of antennas and internet likes. Though, not a lick of concern that the still odds-on favorite to get the GOP nomination showed zero concern for the Congress and VP while his closest allies…including Sean Hannity….were begging him to act and not destroy his legacy through a blatant dereliction of duty. Yet he still chose not to act.

    It was astounding to here about Congressmen calling the White House seeking pardons post Jan 6th. What a tell that is….guilty of what indeed. No wonder Cheney is getting bum rushed out….by others hoping to not get perp walked out by DoJ. We’re at the precipice of learning who the Republican Party wants to be…stay tuned

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  108. Agree with your take, AJ_Liberty.

    Dana (1225fc)

  109. No wonder Cheney is getting bum rushed out….by others hoping to not get perp walked out by DoJ.

    bum rushing happens the first tuesday in november every other year, and not by perps

    but the perp walk prediction is in

    we’ll know how that pans out, once the “lack of interest” kicks in

    JF (a5aefe)

  110. lurker (cd7cd4) — 6/9/2022 @ 8:40 pm

    has ivanka been demoted to the rank of biden’s throwaway fun baby grand daughter yet?

    JF (a5aefe)

  111. @AJ@106 I do kind of wonder how many people in deep red areas answer polls and reporters as very pro-Trump while they quietly think that maybe they’ll vote for someone else in the primary. That maybe he just isn’t the right leader right now. (this is a think I bet happened with Bernie on the blue side).

    Nic (896fdf)

  112. *thing I think.

    Nic (896fdf)

  113. @110 – Dear penthouse forum, I never thought this could happen to me but … and that’s how HRC was elected president

    frosty (ded0da)

  114. @frosty@112 Do you think it’s possible that that was how HRC wasn’t elected president as well? How many people who are usually democratic voters quietly voted for someone else or didn’t vote for president at all?

    Nic (896fdf)

  115. I read in a link from yesterday’s post that Wyoming Republicans who plan on voting for Cheney in the primary keep it quiet because there’s a risk to letting people know. Apparently, the MAGA voters are very serious about pro-Trump candidates and don’t take too kindly to those who break ranks.

    Dana (1225fc)

  116. It wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t know that I’d say anything if I lived in Wyoming and planned to vote for Cheney.

    Nic (896fdf)

  117. @110 and @113 are different questions. If you’re asking me whether I believe people lie to pollsters I’d say I don’t know but I don’t see why they would. If you’re thinking the “poll” is just a scam to get you on a list for retaliation just don’t answer calls from unknown numbers. It’s possible some people lie for no obvious reason. But fear of retaliation via fake polling doesn’t seem plausible. It sounds more like desperation on the part of someone who really doesn’t want to believe that specific polling data but trusts polling generally.

    If you’re asking me whether I put much credence in pre-election polling in general I’d say no. But the second one isn’t driven by the first one. My lack of faith in political polling doesn’t hing on voters lying. The media polls are propaganda meant to manipulate voters. That’s why they’re so inconsistent. It’s a function of how well it worked, whether it was needed, etc. and not so much about how honestly people responded to the poll.

    But for HRC, sure, it’s possible people decided they didn’t like her and didn’t vote. That would show up in the voter turnout numbers. That’s not a polling issue.

    frosty (ded0da)

  118. @115 Exactly. And that’s different from lying and saying you wouldn’t. But my question is who would you be afraid of? Do you think the polling person is going to send someone for a visit to change your mind?

    Yes, we know commenters here who would lie to pollers. But I’m honestly curious about why someone would think there is widespread lying to reporters or people conducting a poll out of fear?

    frosty (ded0da)

  119. @frosty@117 This is just ancedata and supposition, but I know of a number of people who have lied to pollsters for any number of reasons. I’ve also lived in a quite small town once or twice, where everyone knows your business and nothing is confidential and I know several people my parents’ age (my mother for one :P) who grew up on party phone lines. If you aren’t sure how a particular poll works and don’t know if the caller is from your local area and might recognize your number and/or you have a history of people knowing what you say on the phone, why would you tell the pollster the truth if the truth might get you in trouble locally?

    Nic (896fdf)

  120. cutting the cord is a thing, so yeah there are people who can’t watch it

    They don’t cut all the cords. Football.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  121. On the other side of the ledger, if you think everything from Jan 6th is political hype and that Trump did nothing wrong, I’m not sure if this theater will move the needle much.

    “Think” doesn’t belong in that sentence.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  122. The Republicans who matter are watching it. If only to see the Committee’s case and how to deal with it. Party-wide and personally. The ones who don’t matter, don’t matter.

    nk (2f026a)

  123. @105. This is funnier:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LARx7M9s15w

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (7629f8)

  124. @106. Not so sure Chris Wallace is the go to guy for good judgment references these days. If they were still on office, a la The Big Dick w/Watergate or Reagan w/Iran-Contra, it might have had some consequences- but the Trump administration left office 18 months ago so they’re rear-viewing something completely tone deaf with folks in the present who are paying $7 for gas, can’t find baby formula, see the border overrun w/illegals and are watching their money evaporate w/8.5% inflation. It’s utterly out of sync with reality and only fuels the very populism they fear and energizes another Trump run which he’s likely to win given the dolt in charge now. They were better off under when he was in office.

    DCSCA (7629f8)

  125. Cheney voted w/Trump 93% of the time.

    DCSCA (7629f8)

  126. I went to BJ’s to get gas yesterday morning. Two cars in front of me filled up their tanks, then pulled out plastic gas cans and filled them up too. I’ve occasionally seen someone fill a plastic can around here, but it’s rare. I can only assume it was to fill up their generators so they could power their tvs to watch the Jan 6 hearings.

    mg (8cbc69)

  127. None of this would have been possible if we had had an effective opposition party. Keep in mind the GOP controlled the House (pursestrings) from 2011 to 2019 and never once did the cut funding to Obama’s police state. In fact they enabled it. Add in that from 2015 to 2021, they also had the Senate.

    Spare me Republicans. Run in the midterms by promising ONLY that you are NOT progressive Democrats. It might be the first campaign promise that we can believe.

    mg (8cbc69)

  128. @118 That’s not enough to drive what you seem to be talking about. First, does anyone still have landlines much less party lines? How many people even remember that enough for it to show up in polling data. Second, we were talking about Trump, HRC, and Liz voters generally. I know WY is sparsely populated but we’re not talking about Mayberry.

    Again, I wasn’t disagreeing with the idea that people would lie. I’m questioning that a number large enough to show in the polling data lie out of fear of reprisal.

    frosty (ded0da)

  129. “I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.”
    –Liz Cheney, yesterday

    The extent to which she loses her primary will be a good barometer of the GOP’s dishonor.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  130. AJ_Liberty (411e90) — 6/9/2022 @ 9:01 pm . For instance, a key piece of evidence was William Barr clearly telling Trump post-election that the election fraud claims were bullsh*t and that he couldn’t take part in any of that (good to see he had an actual line after all!)….and then Trump’s daughter stating, in effect, that Barr’s position was compelling….meaning dad’s choosing the follow loons

    I knew about what \Barr said — it’s famous – but not everybody knows it/\
    I wwould find faukt in that the Chairman used almost entireely an argument from authority,, He could have added to it that a lot of the stolen election claims were based upon an ignorance of the system by which the votes were cast and tallied/ I liked the mention of Abraham Lincoln in 1864 — tha was to say that even in an eletioon that was so important the president at the time felt an obligation to respect the voters and the constitution

    Good points not made were:

    1. Bill Barr cannot be called a RINO. (using other words)

    2. Members of Trump’s family also thought he lost.

    3. Sean |Hannity referred to something or other as “crazy talk”

    But it would haave been good to just explain, very brief;y, how the idea of massive fraud did not jibe with reality.\

    And it could also have been said thaat that Trump actually did a tiny bit better in 2020 than in 2016 in heavily Democratic precincts. He did measurably worse in Republican areas, particularly suburbs. And there were many places won by down ballot Republican candidates (like for Congress) but lost by Trump,

    Would fraudsters have created such ballots? (Sidney Powell tried to explain the discrepancy between the victories by Republicans and Trump by pointing to the fact that some votes were cast only for president (as happens in every election) The math doesn’t add up. Giuliani was saying they worked overnight filling out fake ballots that they didn’t realize before were needed. All witthout a shred iof corroborating evidence.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  131. Again, I wasn’t disagreeing with the idea that people would lie. I’m questioning that a number large enough to show in the polling data lie out of fear of reprisal.

    The Bradley Effect was real.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  132. Reading off teleprompters… riveting!

    Lizard Cheney is toast, just like her crazed Democrat Clown Committee monkees on parade colleagues.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  133. The extent to which she loses her primary will be a good barometer of the GOP’s dishonor.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/10/2022 @ 7:05 am

    when do you think the “we’re too good for the electorate” campaign slogan will catch on with voters?

    JF (4e0134)

  134. “I say this to Liz Cheney: There will come a day when YOU and your family will be gone, but your dishonor will remain.” Ashli Babbitt remains unavailable for comment, Liz.

    “My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.” Dick Cheney– March 16, 2003
    “I had other priorities in the sixties than military service.” Dick Cheney– April 5, 1989

    https://www.liveabout.com/stupid-dick-cheney-quotes-2734736

    “The most popular Republican in America, it’s not Lindsey Graham, it’s not Liz Cheney, it’s Donald Trump. People on our side of the aisle believe that Trump policies worked. They’re disappointed that he lost, and to try to erase Donald Trump from the Republican Party is insane. The people who try to erase him are going to wind up getting erased.” – Lindsey Graham

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  135. 0:21
    3.9K views
    6
    101
    141

    Drew Hernandez
    @DrewHLive
    ·
    2h
    “RUSSIANS LOVE BIDEN”

    A group of illegal Russians that just crossed the Border here in Yuma AZ thank President Biden for entry

    https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status/1535242115269001218

    3
    47
    139

    Drew Hernandez
    @DrewHLive
    ·
    1h
    OPEN BORDER: Nearly 800 illegals flooded the Yuma AZ Southern Border last night, watch as they just walk straight into the USA |

    https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status/1535244277378273280

    Drew Hernandez
    @DrewHLive
    ·
    3h
    BREAKING: Border Patrol estimates over 300 illegals have just crossed into the United States through the empty Border Space here in Yuma AZ. There are way more men than women.

    This group is huge and keeps on growing

    https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status/1535219479356985344

    </blockquote

    More videos at his main twitter page.

    Maybe Congress will have a prime time hearing on this current event?

    BuDuh (340919)

  136. It’s clear and has been for a while that Trump was attempting to steal the presidency after he lost the election. His supporters don’t care. The constitution and rule of law don’t matter to them.

    The info from the hearings showed that he and those around him knew he lost and that “stop the steal” was a known lie.

    What a bunch of anti American scumbags.

    Time123 (fb5097)

  137. The constitution and rule of law don’t matter to them.

    Where’s the leaker?

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  138. The constitution and rule of law don’t matter to them.

    When was war declared on Russia?

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  139. when do you think the “we’re too good for the electorate” campaign slogan will catch on with voters?

    My mother, drunk or sober.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  140. The constitution and rule of law don’t matter to them.

    do you really want to deport all the illegals?

    JF (4e0134)

  141. “Lies! All lies! You’re all lying against my boys!” — Ma Barker

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  142. My mother, drunk or sober

    i’m not sure “the electorate is drunk” is a better slogan

    are you even trying?

    JF (4e0134)

  143. @136. What a bunch of anti American scumbags.

    =drumroll=

    Full List: How Members of Congress Voted on $40 Billion for Ukraine

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/full-list-how-members-of-congress-voted-on-40-billion-for-ukraine_4477278.html

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  144. 140… funny stuff, JF. Lefties should feel a deep sense of shame with every breath, but time has shown they don’t embarrass easy.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. Daughter Darth is… ‘transitory.’

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  146. Lizard Cheney reads a 1/6/21 Trump tweet but, for some reason, forgets to finish reading the complete tweet which ended “Go home with love & in peace”.

    Sh*tbird better wake up and smell the doom.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  147. JF, I’ve said before that I think are immigration laws should be both enforced and changed.

    Time123 (91a821)

  148. Oh good, the pro-treason caucus is checking in.

    Time123 (91a821)

  149. A false allegation of treason: the Last Refuge of the Corksoaker.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  150. The Bradley Effect was real.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/10/2022 @ 7:07 am

    It’s a proposed reason for the bad poll predictions. It’s not the only one. And there’s no evidence that it is real.

    I wouldn’t hang my hat on it but if it helps people cope for as while I’d hate to take that away from them.

    frosty (4825af)

  151. when do you think the “we’re too good for the electorate” campaign slogan will catch on with voters?

    “Fellas, I need 11,000 votes.”

    If you had been the electorate, and the voters too, none of this would have happened. Hmm?

    nk (5ecfef)

  152. Oh good, the pro-treason caucus is checking in.

    Ashli Babbitt remains unavailable for comment.

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  153. I didn’t say you committed it. I said you support it. It was a short sentence. Try to keep up.

    Time123 (91a821)

  154. @152, I guess trying to seize the capital by force isn’t entirely safe.

    Time123 (91a821)

  155. Paul M:

    It may be renamed the Irvin effect starting this November, perhaps later this month. Probably the John James effect would be appropriate.

    urbanleftbehind (ca1794)

  156. “I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.”
    –Liz Cheney, yesterday

    The extent to which she loses her primary will be a good barometer of the GOP’s dishonor.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/10/2022 @ 7:05 am

    This comment from Liz deserves to be mocked relentlessly. She’s in the pit with a group of people who embrace lying and corruption wholeheartedly and only apply this “have you no shame” rule in one direction. Every time I hear this I think, have you no mirror?

    Her new friends look like they’d shed a bucket of crocodile tears if a conservation SCOTUS judge was assassinated and JB got to approve another token before the midterms.

    frosty (4825af)

  157. @154. Ask Pierre Delecto:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXyfNVlnJKc

    Courage!

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  158. @156. As if we should take any of this “seriously.” 😉

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  159. Inflation, 8.6%! Worst in 40 years!!!

    Transitory to Joey; suppository to Americans.

    Attaboy, Joey!

    DCSCA (1d08a5)

  160. are you even trying?

    Why? You aren’t.
    Either the rule of law means something or it doesn’t.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  161. I didn’t say you committed it. I said you support it. It was a short sentence. Try to keep up.

    Time123 (91a821) — 6/10/2022 @ 8:22 am

    You might want to double check the definition.

    Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

    support

    Of course, we aren’t actually talking about treason so you’re already in the land of hyperbole. Worrying about definitions now seems like a barn door/horse situation.

    frosty (4825af)

  162. This comment from Liz deserves to be mocked relentlessly. She’s in the pit with a group of people who embrace lying and corruption wholeheartedly and only apply this “have you no shame” rule in one direction. Every time I hear this I think, have you no mirror?

    Her new friends look like they’d shed a bucket of crocodile tears if a conservation SCOTUS judge was assassinated and JB got to approve another token before the midterms.

    This is Dumb.

    Cheney has been deeply conservative and opposed the Dems for years. She’s working on the committee from a recognition that Trumps actions around the 2020 election and Jan 6 are worse and that trying to prevent something like that from happening again is important.

    Also, calling judge brown a token is sort of racist.

    Time123 (792209)

  163. I have come to the same conclusion as Jonathan Last in the Atlantic:

    Pence’s attempt to salvage the Republican Party won’t succeed. It will fail not because of any intrinsic problem with the party itself—political parties are merely vessels for the will of the people—but because the problem with the Republican Party is Republican voters. They’re the ones who wanted Trump. They’re the ones who approve of January 6. They’re the ones who insist that Trump actually won in 2020. They’re the ones who are clamoring to nominate him again in 2024.

    Republican voters view all of the terrible outcomes from the first Trump administration—the political violence, the white nationalism, the fiscal irresponsibility, the COVID death tolls—not as bugs but as features. This is what they want.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/january-6-hearings-mike-pence-service-democracy/661224/

    All of this makes the discussion of 1/6 with GOP partisans is somewhat beside the point. In the Trump led GOP (and that is still what we have), any commitment to the right way of doing things, and following the dictates of the Constitution, is a problem, if it conflicts with what Trump wants. Having a conscience will bring you into disfavor and probably deserving of a Capitol Hill lynching. And no amount of fancy slick media prime-time hearings will change this. The best we can hope for is that the law will dispense with Trump (that’s not much of a hope) or enough of the base will get bored with 2020 before Trump does.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  164. Hey Frosty, were you aware that some words have specific meaning in legal context and also have widely understood common usages? Sometimes people aren’t aware of that and get confused so i wanted to point that out.

    But to avoid confusion I’ll rework to be more explicit: the Caucus of people who don’t care about the US, our system of government, our laws, or our constitution and rhetorically supports people who seek to destroy those things has checked in.

    Time123 (792209)

  165. Appalled, I think your comment in 163 is correct. The Trump supporters (and the anti-anti) know all of that. They don’t care. It’s not what’s important to them.

    Time123 (792209)

  166. The constitution and rule of law don’t matter to them.

    do you really want to deport all the illegals?

    JF (4e0134) — 6/10/2022 @ 7:45 am

    Yes. Either that or decide that citizenship doesn’t mean anything, don’t make it a condition of employment or voting, and remove all restrictions on immigration.

    This halfway nonsense is ridiculous.

    frosty (4825af)

  167. “Look how the press has changed, ” whines Joey.

    Yeah. In 1988 they drummed your lyin’ plagiaristic ass out of the presidential race.

    This cycle they gave you a frigging pass.

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (b3c4b0)

  168. #165

    We all have priorities. The idea that the President should be installed based on the duly certified elections in the several states is not as important — to some — as immigrants! inflation! they want to replace us!

    I have issues with the approach the 1/6 commission is taking with these hearings. What they are delivering isn’t hearings — it’s a nifty media product that we are supposed to watch because it’s good for us. An unscripted surprise would be helpful just now. That won’t happen. The Libertarian in me is revolting that we are being saddled with Must Watch TV from the Nanny State. And it doesn’t matter that I agree with the conclusions. Because what we should be getting is an opportunity to decide for ourselves — not conclusions.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  169. Either the rule of law means something or it doesn’t.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/10/2022 @ 8:36 am

    what day is it?

    looks like friday is your “means something” day

    JF (4e0134)

  170. @162 and @164 Ah, the ever articulate “This is Dumb.” with a capital D and a period. You even gave it a whole paragraph by itself. It’s marginally better than DCSCA with the “Except it’s not” and “===mike-drop===”.

    JB has been clear about his preference for female POC when it comes to these things. If you’ve got a problem with racism you might want to start there.

    But honestly, I think the insults are working for you. They are interesting at least.

    But to avoid confusion I’ll rework to be more explicit: the Caucus of people who don’t care about the US, our system of government, our laws, or our constitution and rhetorically supports people who seek to destroy those things has checked in.

    Remember when we had the whole back and forth about you supporting BLM even after I pointed out that they are a marxist org pushing a marxist agenda that is opposed to our system of government, our laws, and our constitution and is full of people who actively support via direct action the destruction of those things? Fun times.

    frosty (4825af)

  171. Either the rule of law means something or it doesn’t.

    Earth to Paul; Earth to Paul- it doesn’t:

    “There are two standards of the law. And we’ve had to struggle with that…” Former U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr, 6/2/22

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (b3c4b0)

  172. @170. “Fun times.”

    Except it’s not.

    =mike-drop=

    😉

    DCSCA (b3c4b0)

  173. the problem with the Republican Party is Republican voters.

    we finally found something that isn’t putin’s fault

    but i’m relieved the problem has finally been root caused, though it sounds a lot like a story about unobtainable grapes

    JF (4e0134)

  174. looks like friday is your “means something” day

    Apparently, it’s another day when you’re making sh-t up.
    Please show us where I’ve been on other side of the rule of law.

    BTW, AllahPundit made an interesting observation about the Carlson-Hannity Comedy Hours.

    To understand what the committee is up against in terms of breaking through the information bubble surrounding Trump voters, consider the fact that Fox News aired Tucker Carlson’s and Sean Hannity’s shows last night without commercial interruption. So determined was Fox to keep its viewers inside that bubble that it forfeited ad revenue to do so, knowing that a 30-second commercial break would have given some in the audience an opportunity to change the channel and check out the hearing. I wrote on Wednesday night that their refusal to carry the hearing live amounted to counterprogramming, but I didn’t know how far they’d go.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  175. HBO also carried counter-programming without commercials. Are they part of the Trumpist plot? Face it. Some people would have 1984-style screens in everyone’s houses, permanently on and tuned to the Party channel.

    It is not up to us to make other people “get informed.” There are voters who vote their horoscope; should they be disenfranchised?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  176. i’m not going to watch the liz show until comedy central preempts king of the hill for it

    JF (4e0134)

  177. Please show us where I’ve been on other side of the rule of law.

    when do you want to start deportations, montagu?

    JF (4e0134)

  178. Well, it would be nice if one in a hundred Fox viewers knew any other name on the 1/6 Committee besides Liz Cheney’s (not counting Adam Kinzinger’s aunts and cousins).

    nk (b76e32)

  179. the problem with the Republican Party is Republican voters.

    … barked the fleas in the tail of the dog it once wagged.

    DCSCA (1f2500)

  180. Frosty, I didn’t say you were dumb. I said your comment was dumb. I then explained why.

    My position on BLM was that while violence and rioting was unacceptable their core grievance; that black people weren’t being treated fairly in the justice system, had some merit. They had 3 ‘headline’ cases; Floyd, Aubrey, and Taylor.

    In 2 of the three the BLM position, that the use of force used against the deceased was wrong, was agreed to buy the Jury. Chauvin was convicted as were Aubrey’s murderers. So think there the facts have showed my position to be a pretty reasonable one.

    So if you’re going to reference my position on other things please try to do so honestly.

    Time123 (792209)

  181. i did catch the start on youtube and was bummed there was no theme song

    I’m thinking the Mary Tyler Moore intro with liz throwing the hat in the air at the end

    or how about Friends with liz, Adam, pelosi, bullschiff, and some spare on the couch at central perk?

    JF (4e0134)

  182. Kevin, isn’t HBO usually run without commercials? Or did that change? Seems like an important difference.

    Time123 (792209)

  183. @177, after the cases are adjudicated per our existing legal structures

    Time123 (792209)

  184. i see Fox has hurt a lot of feelings

    JF (7c34a3)

  185. #116, #117, #118 – If you are seriously interested in how well polls perform, you should look at 538’s comparisons.

    Nate Silver and I have probably never voted for the same candidate, or party, but he is quite good with numbers.

    (This isn’t as well known as it ought to be: The national polls were good in 2016, predicting a narrow popular vote victory for Clinton — which is exactly what happened. The national accuracy is impressive, because polling has become far more difficult in recent decades.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  186. Time123 (792209) — 6/10/2022 @ 10:01 am

    Frosty, I didn’t say you were dumb.

    For someone who doesn’t hesitant to accuse other people of having low reading comprehension skills you should be more careful. I didn’t say that.

    So if you’re going to reference my position on other things please try to do so honestly.

    People in glass houses should be careful throwing rocks.

    They had 3 ‘headline’ cases

    The “Hand’s up don’t shoot” narrative was a lie. So, I understand why you avoided Brown. The Trayvon Martin case was also based on a lie. I can understand why you also left that one out. Black people aren’t being targeted by police but I understand why you want to change this to not being treated fairly (the data doesn’t support that claim either but let’s not look into that because reasons). We’ve also gotten a good picture of the financial fraud going on inside BLM.

    Sure, let’s not look at that whole marxism thing and their stated goals and alliance on the ground with Antifa because you agree with them on the important things.

    frosty (4825af)

  187. @mg@127 Why would they have? Most of the most egregious police state stuff is from Bush era security laws passed after 9/11 that they had voted for.

    @frosty@128 I don’t know. There could be a significant number, but there might not be. We’ll see, I guess.

    @DCSCA@137 That doesn’t seem to be either unconstitutional or illegal, just unethical.

    After a bit of pondering, here are my thoughts on the actual hearing (I watched it twice because I didn’t want my impressions to be based solely on being distracted by production value):

    I can see why they wanted a professional production to run the media display end of things. The camera work in the room was professional, timing was good and the clips and media were presented well and there weren’t any technical issues that I could tell.

    It felt like opening statements in a trial.

    It’s interesting to see where they started and then look at the path for where they wanted to go. Last night seemed to be most about laying the ground work that yes, this was an insurrection. They also showed that Trump may have been reckless in his communication, but I don’t think you could use what they showed so far to obtain a conviction for insurrection. It looks like they were also laying groundwork to show he might’ve violated some other elections laws, as well as flatout showing that he knew he was lying to the American people by calling the election a fraud.

    I personally am most interested any behind the scenes communication Trump had that might’ve been less flashy but perhaps more telling, because most of the of surface stuff can be argued as just sound and fury, and in what happened in the governmental bureaucracy side of things during the January 6th insurrection.

    Nic (896fdf)

  188. when do you want to start deportations, montagu?

    If the law requires it…

    HBO also carried counter-programming without commercials.

    Unserious.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  189. Frosty, BLM’s collaboration with violent extremists and financial improprieties are bad and I have no problem saying so now and didn’t at the time. You misrepresented my position and i wanted to correct that.

    None of which has anything to do with Trump’s attempt to steal the presidency based on lies about election fraud, hundreds of his supporters violently attacking the capital in furtherance of that, and his other scumbag supporters being OK with it and pretending efforts to document what happened are unimportant.

    Time123 (792209)

  190. I didn’t watch the clownshow… did the cast of “Hamilton” take the stage and perform again?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  191. I imagine the ratings were through the EFFing roof!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  192. Public Service Announcement: if you are at work and yet find yourself spending 8+ hours on-line making self-beclowning comments, refer back to Merriam-Webster for the definition of “employment” and consider the near-prehistoric adage “8 hours work for 8 hours pay”.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  193. @190. More the bar scene from ‘Star Wars’.

    DCSCA (4edb5d)

  194. Unserious.

    No, just ridicule of your demand that everyone pay attention to what you think is important.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  195. Kevin, isn’t HBO usually run without commercials? Or did that change? Seems like an important difference.

    Not to me. Paul was complaining that Fox wasn’t focusing on what Paul thought was important, and in fact studiously ignoring what they seem to view as misinformation.

    In his response he says “unserious.” Which is precisely my point: don’t be a scold when people don’t want to take seriously what you take seriously.

    Diversity means just that, even when you don’t like it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  196. BTW, I did watch the first hour.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  197. @Haiku@192 Pft. The children are done and I’ve already had to be packed out of my office. It currently is a construction zone.

    Nic (896fdf)

  198. @196. Priorities: Daughter Darth, who voted with Trump 93% of the time, has her head so far up her butt she talks out her nostrils. So when Princess Halliburton began to speak in that nasal tone, mothball-dressed in electric blue like Hillary Clinton, circa 1991, switched to TCM’s Pechinpah classic, ‘The Ballad of Cable Hogue’ and enjoyed the less-yet-better-dressed, chesty tones of the lovely Stella Stevens instead.

    DCSCA (4edb5d)

  199. No, just ridicule of your demand that everyone pay attention to what you think is important.

    Demand?
    Unserious.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  200. How’s the Schiff show going? Did he present evidence of Russian collusion with Trump yet?

    NJRob (890e56)

  201. If the law requires it…

    Unserious

    JF (7c34a3)

  202. @Rob@200 The only committee members who spoke last night were the chair and vice chair.

    Nic (896fdf)

  203. 197 – have a nice summer, nic !

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  204. @Haiku@203 I plan to! I hope you are also doing well!

    Nic (896fdf)

  205. 189–Actually, it has everything to do with that. Does anyone really think that Republican voters would look at the celebrations and deflections of left-wing violence, murder, and anarchy (including an attempted storming of the White House, in case anyone forgot about that) by the media, academics, corporations, sports leagues, and Hollywood celebrities–the latter of whom were donating to bail funds so the rioters could continue in their destruction–and Democratic politicians, and not think, “Gee, maybe force is the only thing these people really understand”? And that maybe in the aftermath of January 6th, they’d think, “Well, it’s obvious that violence is only allowed to advance the political agenda of one side”?

    THAT is the whole point. Of course what the rioters did was wrong. It’s ALWAYS wrong. But only one side is allowed to do it with the blessing of those in power. That’s why appealing to “rule of law,” haughty scoldings about dishonor, and accusing Republicans who couldn’t give a rip about this of being traitors, at this stage are all about two years (or more) too late.

    This should have been nipped in the bud exactly two years ago. It wasn’t. Blame the Democrats and their politicians, the corporations, the Chamber of Commerce, the Tech Trust, the mass media/entertainment industry, and academia. They’re all the reason why we are at where we are today.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  206. “First, does anyone still have landlines much less party lines?”

    Search engines, such as Google and Bing, will give you quick answers to both questions. (The answers to the two questions are quite different, by the way.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  207. Unserious

    Why’s that, JF?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  208. I imagine the ratings were through the EFFing roof!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2022 @ 11:23 am

    Heard on Progressive radio – it was under 1 million viewers

    But I wonder if thats true

    EPWJ (4f24b3)

  209. @EPWJ@208 Out of curiosity, I took a look at the livestream numbers last night on youtube and it was almost 2 mill views total between the various youtube livestreams alone at that point. Today it looks like it’s closer to 3 mil.

    Nic (896fdf)

  210. It would be helpful if every commenter tried to avoid this common fallacy.

    (Avoiding it improves our own thinking, as does keeping a careful watch out for another common trap, “confirmation bias”.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  211. “But only one side is allowed to do it with the blessing of those in power.”

    What this misses is that President Obama or higher up Democrats were not stoking riots to gain political advantage. January 6th was a strike at democracy itself. I believe Trump failed to act because he wanted the rioters to punish Mike Pence and frighten the heck out of his political opponents. In the face of all of the call’s for him to act from close advisors, for Trump to sit and stew was sociopathic. I strain to understand why so many here are so sympathetic.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  212. 211- Are you serious? The current Speaker of the House wondered why there weren’t uprisings all across the nation back in 2018. The current Vice President cheered the riots on the whole time and promoted bail funds. You really think this behavior isn’t as destructive to a functioning nation as the January 6th riot? They are the EXACT SAME THING.

    You shouldn’t strain to understand. The left has power and the right doesn’t. That’s why the left can get away with mass, cross-country political violence, destruction of government property, and iconoclasm, and the right can’t.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  213. should have been nipped in the bud exactly two years ago. It wasn’t. Blame the Democrats and their politicians, the corporations, the Chamber of Commerce, the Tech Trust, the mass media/entertainment industry, and academia. They’re all the reason why we are at where we are today.

    I believe people are responsible for their choices and actions.

    Trump lied about fraud and attempted to steal an election he lost. He’s responsible for that. Not the CoC.

    The scumbags who stormed the capital to help him steal the election are responsible for what they did. Not Antifa or rioters a year prior.

    The politicians who refuse to hold them accountable are responsible for their choices. Not other politicians that did something wrong.

    The people how make excuses for all of the above are responsible for their words and what their support brings. Not big tech or academia.

    Time123 (792209)

  214. Heard on Progressive radio – it was under 1 million viewers

    More like 19 million, but they didn’t report the Carlson-Hannity ratings, but there was this.

    The Fox News anchors Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum did cover the hearings live but did so on Fox Business, which attracts far fewer viewers. Roughly 223,000 people watched the hearings on Fox Business. When Mr. Baier and Ms. MacCallum switched over to Fox News for a two-hour special at 11 p.m., an average of 1.3 million watched.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  215. 210–It would be more helpful if some commenters exercised some understanding of certain socio-political realities, rather than tone-policing and citing fallacies from Wikipedia as if they have any bearing here.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  216. 213–How was the left held responsible for their choices and actions two years ago, exactly?

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  217. I strain to understand why so many here are so sympathetic

    Because they don’t care about what Trump tried to do. Some are so convinced their side has been treated unfairly in other areas they welcome it. Some believe they’re in an existential conflict and destroying our democracy is a price that should be paid. Some just refuse to criticize their ‘side’. Some may even believe the lies they’ve been told. But at the end of it, none of them care about this.

    To them it’s a justified response to unrelenting provocation and no amount of evidence that other wrongs were prosecuted, that the Jan 6 scum were treated fairly by our flawed system, that Trumps claims are complete lies will convince them otherwise.

    Time123 (792209)

  218. FWO, numerous prosecutions by the DOJ based on the evidence available at the time.

    Time123 (792209)

  219. #210 —

    Well, you do it too. In fact, you probably just did! Indirectly, of course.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  220. FWO, much of what you complain about wrt to the lefts power is just free expression of preference. No one is forcing cathedral institutions to take the position they do. Plenty of people are trying to persuade them and rhetorically push them but that’s what you get when free speech is allowed.

    In 2020 BLM rallied around the George Floyd murder and a lot of people said “Ok, that’s bad and we need to do better in this area.” It got way out of control with riots and Antifa and hate for the cops and in a lot of areas the dems paid a price for that. It could have been worse but a lot of people looked at it and decided ‘legitimate protests OK, violence NOK’. Enough leaders from the Dems took that stance that they weren’t seen as aligned with Antifa.

    Antifa and the Proud Boys are both sacks of crap. A key difference is which leaders climbed into the sacks.

    Time123 (792209)

  221. Time–more like “selective,” based on whether the DA felt like bringing charges or not. In Portland alone, people were let off time after time after time to riot for months. No one ever brought charges against the people who executed the teenager in the Seattle CHAZ. No one charged following the attempt to storm the White House. The VP promoting bail funds for rioters. About the only ones who did pay the consequences were the three violent drug addicts that Kyle Rittenhouse shot while attempting to flee.

    No, real, actual consequences were very rare to be had.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  222. Again, in what areas did Dems “pay a price for that? In what way, specifically?

    And no, the cathedral encouraging and bailing out rioters who burn and destroy property, and kill and assault people, is hardly a free expression of preference. It’s a deliberate exercise of political power and solidarity.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  223. What did Trump try to do?

    NJRob (d38d18)

  224. “No one ever brought charges against the people who executed the teenager in the Seattle CHAZ.”

    Sounds like you have a problem with the police.

    “No one charged following the attempt to storm the White House. ”

    L M A O

    “The VP promoting bail funds for rioters.”

    Cash bail should be abolished.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  225. FWO, you can google convictions associated with the George Floyd protests. There are less then there should have been. But most of the dismissals were for breaking curfew. I think the assertion the DOJ under Barr was helping the Dems is a silly one.

    Also, I think Bailis a fundamental right.

    Time123 (792209)

  226. @223, He failed to steal the election Rob.

    Time123 (792209)

  227. Proof Time, proof.

    NJRob (d38d18)

  228. ‘In 2020 BLM rallied around the George Floyd murder and a lot of people said “Ok, that’s bad and we need to do better in this area.” ‘

    I haven’t read anything about the investigation, arrest and prosecution of the drug dealer that sold him the fentanyl or meth what put him in a drug delirium and contributed mightily to what killed him.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  229. 224-Thanks for so elegantly proving my point.

    Time, whether bail is a fundamental right is immaterial to the fact that the left got away with rioting and property destruction. And I never said that Barr was helping the rioters. I was referring to guys like the DA of Multnomah County.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  230. “I haven’t read anything about the investigation, arrest and prosecution of the drug dealer that sold him the fentanyl or meth what put him in a drug delirium and contributed mightily to what killed him.”

    Can’t believe people are still pushing this line. Having a cop kneel on his neck for nine minutes was the cause of death.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  231. “Time, whether bail is a fundamental right is immaterial to the fact that the left got away with rioting and property destruction.”

    Paying bail doesn’t mean you don’t go to trial FWO. Unless you think that people who are arrested should be punished even if they’re not guilty.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  232. Except they didn’t go to trial because the sympathetic DAs dropped the charges immediately afterward, Dave. Over and over and over again.

    The cops can bring charges all they want. Won’t make any difference if the DA won’t prosecute. That’s why your CHAZ allies got away with murder.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  233. Grand jury returns indictment against 11 charged in (Pacific Beach CA) demonstration attacks

    A grand jury has indicted 11 people for allegedly attacking demonstrators during a march held in Pacific Beach last year by supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the San Diego County District Attorney’s Office.

    Prosecutors say 29 felony counts have been filed against the defendants, including conspiracy to commit a riot, use of tear gas and assault with a deadly weapon, stemming from the Jan. 9, 2021, clash at a “Patriot March,” which was ultimately declared an unlawful assembly by San Diego police.

    Ten of the 11 defendants pleaded not guilty to the charges on Tuesday, while another defendant is set to be arraigned later this month.

    According to the indictment, the defendants responded to social media posts calling for “counterprotesting” about one week prior to Jan. 9, then showed up in Pacific Beach “dressed in black clothing, and armed with weapons and protective gear.”
    ………
    The indictment alleges that the defendants “are all affiliated with Antifa” and used “force, fear, and violence to further their interests and suppress the interests of others.” It continues, “The objective of this conspiracy was to incite and participate in a riot.”
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  234. The AP found that more than 120 defendants across the United States have pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial of federal crimes including rioting, arson and conspiracy. More than 70 defendants who’ve been sentenced so far have gotten an average of about 27 months behind bars. At least 10 received prison terms of five years or more.

    https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8

    Here’s a round up FWO.

    Time123 (792209)

  235. @208 don’t worry. The story will be that all of the serious people watched and the traitors didn’t. The numbers will confirm that.

    frosty (f17e05)

  236. Time–wooo, 120. Out of tens, if not hundreds of thousands.

    Truly a systemic enforcement of law and order!

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  237. @233 Some good news! I take back everything a lot of the things I’ve said about you and these news quote posts.

    frosty (f17e05)

  238. “That’s why your CHAZ allies got away with murder.”

    Who was arrested for murder, then not charged?

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  239. “hundreds of thousands”

    L M A O

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  240. Thursday Ratings: ABC, MSNBC Lead Coverage of Jan. 6 Committee Hearing

    In the latest TV ratings, ABC led the primetime Thursday coverage of the House Select Committee on January 6th’s first public hearing. ABC’s two-hour coverage averaged 4.9 million total viewers, TVLine has learned. Of the other broadcast networks, NBC tallied 3.6 million viewers, while CBS drew 3.4 million.

    Amongst cable news networks, MSNBC led the pack with 4.2 million total viewers, followed by CNN’s 2.6 million viewers. Fox News, which didn’t cover the hearing itself, averaged nearly 3 million viewers during the two-hour block. Fox Business (to which Fox News anchors’ actual news coverage was relegated) drew 223,000, while CNBC averaged 160K.

    ABC also commanded the largest share of Adults 18-34 and 25-54, while CNN easily led all cablers in those measures.

    https://tvline.com/2022/06/10/ratings-jan-6-capitol-attack-commitee-hearing-primetime/

    Thursday TV Ratings 6/9/22: January 6th Committee Hearing Draws Decent Interest Across Big Three Networks as ABC Coverage Leads (UPDATED)

    http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/2022/06/thursday-tv-ratings-6922-january-6th.html

    “The numbers, Mr. Keith. The numbers!” – USAF Systems Officer [Frank Marth] ‘Marooned’ 1969

    DCSCA (2cbce7)

  241. Just like Donald Trump could not have escaped noticing that he really lost the elections and that all claims to the contrary (of massive cheating and fraud) were unfounded, so this committee could not have escaped noticing that there was apublic call to attend arally ,B> at the Capitol </i? </b? in the days before. In fact the Ellipse event was added later.

    This has gone into the memory hole.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20210106005050/https://wildprotest.com/

    It was carefully carved away in the tstimony and presentation. It was made to look like only a few insders knew about the plan to go to the Capitol.

    I wonder why there were bike racks there, if so.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  242. @236 Serenity comes when you trade expectations for acceptance. -B

    For a lot of people the biggest issue with the riots and the arson was that it made their team look bad. Be glad that there were 120.

    frosty (f17e05)

  243. FWO, that was one google search. There’s more out there. But I doubt your response would have changed based on a different number.

    Time123 (38a44c)

  244. Giulainki says Anttifa people were there when AShli babbitt was lifted up

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  245. “hundreds of thousands”

    L M A O

    Davethulhu (054e7d) — 6/10/2022 @ 2:30 pm

    Truly. SMDH.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  246. lurker, I’m sorry, you and Dave must have missed the several months of riots that took place during the summer and fall of 2020 across the country.

    That must be why Dave is pretending that his allies didn’t shoot and kill a teenager in the CHAZ, and one of them actually filmed herself telling the murderers to clean up the crime scene.

    And since leftists like Dave believe rioting and destroying property for months is ok in the service of their political agenda, don’t be surprised if Republican voters aren’t going to get worked up about January 6th. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1)

  247. FWO,

    They don’t care. They’ll continuing gaslighting as long as there’s the slightest chance someone will believe it.

    NJRob (694f53)

  248. FWO, how about people like me who think both of those things are wrong?

    Time123 (6d813e)

  249. @248 Your comment @220, and others, says that while you label “both” as bad the details on what that really means is significant.

    I think it’s fair to say you don’t think they are both equally bad correct? And that’s not itself a bad thing. But you’re not willing to allow people you disagree with to make similar distinctions. You’ve got a set of rules for your team and a different set for everyone else.

    frosty (9992b3)

  250. No frosty, that’s not an accurate summation of my position or things I’ve said previously.

    Time123 (6d813e)

  251. FWO,

    They don’t care. They’ll continuing gaslighting as long as there’s the slightest chance someone will believe it.

    NJRob (694f53) — 6/10/2022 @ 4:22 pm

    You’ve falsely accused me dishonesty several times. My patience for it has run out. Apologize and cut it out.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  252. 249,

    As a way of preventing a misunderstanding, repeat in your own words what you think Time123 said in the specific comment that is the subject of 249. Be as clear and as precise as you can. He can then clarify where you are wrong or confirm where you are right. This only works if the goal is to understand one another, not score points.

    Dana (1225fc)

  253. lurker, I’m sorry, you and Dave must have missed the several months of riots that took place during the summer and fall of 2020 across the country.

    Factory Working Orphan (bb29c1) — 6/10/2022 @ 4:02 pm

    No, FWO, I saw and condemned the riots. My comment was solely as to the absurdity of your implication that as many as hundreds of thousands committed crimes deserving of arrest and prosecution.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  254. Most of the arrests were for curfew violations. Many of the lesser charges were “dismissed” pending completion of what was essentially probation. A lot of major crimes were committed by perpetrators that were never caught, or there was weak evidence.

    Pretty much everyone charged from Jan 6 is on camera, was placed there with GPS, or confessed.

    Time123 (6d813e)

  255. No, FWO, I saw and condemned the riots. My comment was solely as to the absurdity of your implication that as many as hundreds of thousands committed crimes deserving of arrest and prosecution.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 6/10/2022 @ 5:43 pm

    I’d say destruction of property, such as burning buildings to the ground, would be deserving of arrest and prosecution. So would the murders that BLM protestors committed during the riots.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  256. @255. I agree. But you need suspects and evidence and in many of the more severe crimes they didn’t have that.

    Time123 (6d813e)

  257. FWO, how about people like me who think both of those things are wrong?

    Time123 (6d813e) — 6/10/2022 @ 4:35 pm

    I’ll repeat what I said above:

    THAT is the whole point. Of course what the rioters did was wrong. It’s ALWAYS wrong. But only one side is allowed to do it with the blessing of those in power. That’s why appealing to “rule of law,” haughty scoldings about dishonor, and accusing Republicans who couldn’t give a rip about this of being traitors, at this stage are all about two years (or more) too late.

    Followed by what you said:

    A lot of major crimes were committed by perpetrators that were never caught, or there was weak evidence.

    Again, I refer you to pretty much every Democratic city mayor who clapped along with these protests even as they turned in to riots. I point you to the DAs like Chesa Boudin, George Gascon, and especially Mike Schmidt, the latter of whom basically did “catch and release” with Antifa rioters.

    That was why the left freaked out about Kyle Rittenhouse–the wolves were used to the shepherds standing by while they ran riot, only to get shredded after chasing after some random stray who dog turned out to be a lot more combat-capable than they expected. It’s not an accident that any BLM protest that went anywhere that the residents greeted them with a show of force, they either conducted silent walkthroughs and never returned, or tucked tail and ran. That’s why the BLM riots in Lancaster, PA ended overnight after the judge put their bail at $1 million.

    If Democrat-run areas had shown actual resistance to these actions, they wouldn’t have gone on for months. And that’s the point–it’s not the actions, which are always wrong regardless. It’s the cathedral’s double standard. And if that’s the way they want to operate, then they should probably not be surprised if half the country shrugs when they’re caused even the slightest bit of discomfort, much less a riot at the Capitol. They’ve clearly set themselves on the opposite side, and they’re going to be treated as such until they either return to a neutral stance, or get suppressed whenever their side isn’t in charge–just like the cathedral does whenever they are running things.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  258. No, FWO, I saw and condemned the riots. My comment was solely as to the absurdity of your implication that as many as hundreds of thousands committed crimes deserving of arrest and prosecution.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 6/10/2022 @ 5:43 pm

    I’d say destruction of property, such as burning buildings to the ground, would be deserving of arrest and prosecution. So would the murders that BLM protestors committed during the riots.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/10/2022 @ 6:13 pm

    I agree and I agree.

    And I stand by my comment.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  259. @252

    In 2020 BLM rallied around the George Floyd murder and a lot of people said “Ok, that’s bad and we need to do better in this area.” It got way out of control with riots and Antifa and hate for the cops and in a lot of areas the dems paid a price for that. It could have been worse but a lot of people looked at it and decided ‘legitimate protests OK, violence NOK’. Enough leaders from the Dems took that stance that they weren’t seen as aligned with Antifa.

    Time agrees that some of BLM is bad but hedges it by saying it got out of control. In past comments this may be expressed as something equivalent to a few bad apples. In general Time expresses the opinion that BLM is mostly correct in it’s goal but has made some mistakes. And they are perfectly within their rights to pursue their goals. Time doesn’t agree that violence is a core element of BLM.

    But for Jan/6 he won’t allow that it’s possible that it was something that got out of control or was driven by a few bad apples. For Time Jan/6 is not something that people can make these sorts of distinctions about. In fact any sort of disagreement on Jan/6 is, as Time said above, supporting treason, ref: @148. If someone says Jan/6 was trumpers getting way out of control Time will be one of the first to start making all sorts of accusations against the person making the claim.

    But to go a step further. It’s not important whether the BLM riots were equally as bad as Jan/6. My larger point is that Time is willing to make excuses for his/her team, while selectively condemning specific acts, but is not willing to allow someone else to take a similar position about something Time disagrees with. In fact doing exactly what Time does for Time’s team is criticized, ref: @148. This moves beyond making a value judgement on the merits. It’s a rhetorical tactic designed to close of space. The other party is acting in bad faith by even attempting a similar argument that Time has used his/herself.

    Now, if you agree with Time this doesn’t seem like a problem. If you agree with Time you’ve rationalized why making these distinctions is not inconsistent. This is also why s/he thinks I misrepresent comments. If I follow Time’s comments to their logical conclusion and s/he disagrees with that then obviously I’ve made a mistake. Since I do it so often obviously I’m purposely being dishonest. If you disagree with Time then the double standard is pretty clear.

    And just to be clear, I think Time has every right to advocate for groups s/he agrees with. So, does everyone else. But you’ll notice that while I allege that BLM is marxist I generally avoid going as far as @148. I think it’s fine that Time agrees with BLM. I just challenge the position since it seems inconsistent with other comments.

    frosty (9992b3)

  260. Frosty,

    Several points.

    1. I think BLM’s core complaint: that people harmed by excessive use of force by LEO deserve justice, our current system does a poor job of providing that justice, and many black people fall into that group, has merit. I’ve thought that for a long time, well before BLM. I think their headline cases (Flord, Aubrey, Taylor) had merit. Read Radly Balko on Taylor if you haven’t, good reporting there. (Actually Balko has a lot of really interesting reporting. Just be careful, he has a strong libertarian bias)

    2. I don’t agree with the broader goals of BLM and it’s affiliated coalition. I have have nothing but contempt for ANTIFA.

    3. I don’t consider them ‘my team’ and I doubt they’d want me on theirs.

    If someone says Jan/6 was trumpers getting way out of control Time will be one of the first to start making all sorts of accusations against the person making the claim.

    I don’t think this characterization of the mob that attacked the capital is accurate. I’ve said before that Jan 6 was a mostly peaceful protest. 10’s of thousands of Trump supporters peacefully demonstrated at the capital in support of his stupid lies about election fraud, as was their right. My complaint is with the hundreds of them who used force to try and stop the certification of the election. Had they been successful in their aims the man who lost the popular and elector vote would be president only through use of force. I’m glad they were incompetent. I have little but contempt for most of the people who try to defend them, minimize their actions, or play rhetorical games about the issue.

    Maybe this is central part of what you’re getting wrong.

    I think the core assertion of BLM is “there should be justice for people subjected to excessive force by the police, and those people are often black and don’t get it.” and that this complaint has some merit. I think that people have a right to peacefully protest for this and that those who engage in violence should be punished through the legal system.

    I think the core assertion of the violent Jan 6 /Mob/ is “The election was stolen and violence is justified to keep Trump in power.” I don’t think this has merit.

    The violent Trump Mob isn’t he whole of the MAGA movement. But we’re not talking about the whole Maga moment. We’re talking specifically about the violent mob, Trump, the people who were helping him try to steal the presidency and the people who don’t care about that.

    Show me someone who responds to charges against the people who set up CHOP with distractions, whatabout, lies, and dismissal (they exist but don’t comment here) and I’ll show them the same contempt as I do for CH.

    Time123 (792209)

  261. Time123 (792209) — 6/10/2022 @ 8:06 pm

    Maybe this is central part of what you’re getting wrong.

    It would be more productive to Dana’s point if you didn’t try to use this sort of tactic. I’m not misunderstanding you. You aren’t new to the idea of making an over broad claim and refining it when challenged.

    You’re illustrating the double standard in this comment. You’re putting BLM’s POV in the best light possible because you agree with it. That’s fine. And putting the worst light possible on Jan/6 because you disagree with it. Which is also fine. And then denying that it’s anything but contemptible for anyone to try to frame it in anything but the worst light. And now we’re at the double standard. For example, I wouldn’t characterize BLM in this way at all. I also wouldn’t characterize the Jan/6 mob this way. I would put anyone that promoted political violence into the same bucket. But if I’m putting Jan/6 in a better light than you’re willing to accept, even if it isn’t the best possible light, you’re saying I’m contemptible. Which isn’t something I’ve said about you for doing the same thing but just from a different POV and opinion.

    In general this isn’t even a BLM/Jan/6 thing. This happens on multiple issues.

    And you’re being inconsistent.

    My complaint is with the hundreds of them who used force to try and stop the certification of the election.

    I have little but contempt for most of the people who try to defend them, minimize their actions, or play rhetorical games about the issue.

    It turns out your complaint isn’t just with the ones who tried to use force on Jan/6. And in previous comments you’ve made it’s clear that you’re not very tolerant of the idea that only the people who used force on Jan/6 should be held accountable for that violence.

    Show me someone who responds to charges against the people who set up CHOP with distractions

    Victor did this blatantly and you didn’t show him the contempt you’re talking about here. There are a couple of other active posters that you also seem to give a pass on this. You seem to find a middle ground that lets you be some what critical. But, no. I don’t really find this plausible. You don’t put nearly the emotional investment into anything Antifa as you do anything Trump.

    frosty (9992b3)

  262. Frosty, I have no idea which comment about victors you’re talking about.

    Seems like you’re not getting the point I’m making that Jan 6 mob & Antifa are a violent fringe of the larger movements they belong to. I keep saying it. But you don’t seem to be getting it.

    You are correct that my complaint is also with the scum who are supporting the violent Jan 6 mob through excuses, what about, dismissal. Not sure why you’re framing is as a sudden admission. I don’t think I can be any more clear about how little respect I have for them.

    Time123 (c5ebc4)

  263. What’s all this than?

    False equivalency and lies.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  264. I’ll say this: there are some arguments in support of Jan 6 that I think are reasonable. Whembly has
    Made them in the past, don’t see anyone else making them. it’s just the “it was parade/whatabout/justified response” garbage. So that’s what I’m responding to.

    Time123 (c5ebc4)

  265. Lizard Cheney rides with Schiff, as do the Shiftless and Gullible.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  266. @262 I hear you but yes, I’m not “getting it” because I don’t agree with you. The problem isn’t whether you’re clear. It’s whether you’re actually using a consistent standard instead of just claiming that you are.

    I’m also not framing this as a sudden admission. I’ve been very clear that this has been a pattern in your posts for a long time.

    As far as Victor goes, his first comment was excusing and defending CHOP. And he was consistent with that after it was obvious what was going on. If you’ve got to pick between admitting your wrong and claiming you’ve no idea I guess this tactic is better.

    frosty (cec41f)

  267. I feel my standard is consistent and I don’t know how to make my position any more clear. Was there a particular point about Jan 6 that you wanted to make?

    Time123 (c5ebc4)

  268. Maybe wait for Dana to get back to the thread to analyze the breakdown of the conversation thus far?

    BuDuh (340919)

  269. Time123 and frosty put on their “who’s on first-I don’t know-third base” act every time they “engage”, and Time123 protesting that he “did not say that” with at least every other comment. Whatever turns them on.

    nk (46a037)

  270. “Time123 and frosty put on their “who’s on first-I don’t know-third base” act every time”

    Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    Step one to having a good conversation…..good faith….never skip step one

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  271. Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    Reaganomics!

    DCSCA (5ab4d1)

  272. NK & AJ, this was a waste of time and annoyed the ppl around it and obviously was going to be. But Dana asked frosty to be specific and he replied so it seemed rude to just ignore him at that point. Sorry for the clutter.

    Time123 (90fe56)

  273. At some point, and likely this is it, it’s best to disengage with one another over this specific issue. I’m not going to weigh in on the convo because you’re adults and you’ve made a good effort at getting understanding and clarity from the other. That’s how we should debate with one another over touchy subjects. I appreciate any effort. But this seems to have gone as far as it can between the two of you. I have no answers other than to point out that there is a myriad of things to talk about. Also, I suspect we’re all so fixed in our positions re Jan. 6, and pretty much nothing is going to change our minds. Personally, it’s inconceivable to me that some people don’t believe that Trump’s corruption lay at the heart of it all, but that’s me.

    Anyway, please continue to talk/comment , and if you choose to try to keep finding at least a small point of understanding about the current issue, just remember: no personal insults.

    Also, Time123, I don’t think it was a waste of time. Often repeating what one thinks another one is saying and offering correction, etc. can help move the dialogue. Clearly, sometimes it can’t. But it certainly is not a waste of time.

    Dana (1225fc)

  274. God bless you frosty. You have an infinite amount more patience than I do for tolerating this type of stuff.

    I used to discuss these things giving the other person the benefit of the doubt till I realized it wasn’t an honest discussion on the other end.

    I do wonder how many of our resident “moderates” have bounced from screen name to screen name over the years.

    NJRob (78a243)

  275. I’ll throw this in too: I’m done conversing with rudeness and cheap baiters. It’s a waste of my time, and frankly theirs. I never want this to become an “I have to win” situation, or look, I zinged him good by insulting X to someone else on my side. And I have been guilty of doing that, and I don’t like that behavior in me. If I can’t reply politely, and without playing word games, being manipulative, and without veiled insults, I just need to shut my mouth because clearly, I have nothing worthwhile to offer. And mostly, I don’t want to befoul P’s site.

    Dana (1225fc)

  276. @274 I appreciate the kinds words. I don’t really see it as an issue of patience though. I think my goals are different from yours and Time’s. Not that I think either of your goals aren’t valid. I’m just saying they’re different.

    There is some validity to deciding the benefit of the doubt isn’t deserved. The question is what’s the most productive thing to do in that situation.

    I’m not sure people are bouncing between screen names. I think it’s happened though. In some cases they’re just hoping you don’t notice they express inconsistent opinions. In a few cases I really don’t think they think they’re being inconsistent. Rationalization is powerful and self awareness is in short supply.

    frosty (c9799f)

  277. I used to discuss these things giving the other person the benefit of the doubt till I realized it wasn’t an honest discussion on the other end.
    I do wonder how many of our resident “moderates” have bounced from screen name to screen name over the years.

    From the guy who feels 2000 Mules is credible.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  278. God bless you frosty. You have an infinite amount more patience than I do for tolerating this type of stuff.

    I used to discuss these things giving the other person the benefit of the doubt till I realized it wasn’t an honest discussion on the other end.

    When you accuse people of dishonesty without showing what they said that’s dishonest and what makes it so, you’re just spewing empty insults.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

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