Patterico's Pontifications

5/18/2022

Asking the Question: What Are Americans Doing To Prevent the Next Coup Attempt?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:11 am



[guest post by Dana]

Mona Charen has a good piece over at The Bulwark today, suggesting that there will be a next coup attempt and noting that there is no time to waste in preventing it from happening:

Across the country, candidates who deny the legitimacy of the 2020 election are seeking office in order to prepare the ground for the next election contest. Pardoned Trump ally Steve Bannon is encouraging MAGAites to run for local posts with authority to count votes. Bannon uses his popular podcast to tout “taking over the Republican party through the precinct committee strategy.. . . It’s about winning elections with the right people—MAGA people. We will have our people in at every level.”

At least 23 candidates who deny the outcome of the 2020 election are running for secretary of state in 19 states. Among those are battleground states that Biden won narrowly: Michigan, Nevada, Georgia, and Arizona. Trump has endorsed candidates in Georgia, Arizona, and Michigan, the only time in history that a former president has bestirred himself over races so far down the ballot. “We’re seeing a dangerous trend of election deniers lining up to fill election administration positions across the country,” Joanna Lydgate, chief executive of States United Action, told the Guardian. Lydgate’s group also tallies 53 election deniers seeking governorships in 25 states, and 13 election deniers running for attorney general in 13 states.

Additionally, death threats and intimidation from MAGA extremists have caused one in five election administrators to say they will leave their posts before 2024. The most common explanation is that too many politicians were attacking “a system that they know is fair and honest” and that the job was too stressful. A February survey of 596 local election officials found that they spanned the political spectrum pretty evenly—26 percent identified as Democrats, 30 percent as Republicans, and 44 percent as independents. A majority said they were worried about attempts to interfere with their work in future elections.

While MAGA types are beavering away, attempting to stack election boards and other posts with election-denying zealots, what are other Americans doing? The clock is ticking.

Charen points out some of the foolish efforts made by both parties to oust politicians who are obviously not going to be ousted:

If past is prologue, Democrats will probably pour money into unwinnable races over the next few months. Remember Amy McGrath? She was supposed to dethrone Mitch McConnell in Kentucky. Democratic donors gave her $88 million. Remember Jamie Harrison? He was going to defeat Lindsey Graham in South Carolina. Donors shoveled $130 million his way. Harrison lost by a 10-point margin. McGrath lost by nearly 20 points. The list goes on. Beto O’Rourke anyone? (Republicans do this too. Just look at the money wasted in Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s district.)

This year, donors are spending millions in an attempt to unseat the execrable Marjorie Taylor Greene. Sigh. Trump won Greene’s district with 75 percent of the vote. This. Won’t. Work.

Her point? Be smarter: think local elections. And I think she’s right:

Democrats, independents, and sane Republicans should focus instead on the critical local contests that will determine who counts the votes in 2024. Those unsexy races for local positions and administrative posts like secretaries of state could make the difference in 2024 between an election and a coup.

Tangentially, we know that Trump backed 26 primary candidates, and out of that list, 23 won, with one race still undetermined. And while a number of them were safe Republican incumbents, it’s eye-opening to see that of those 23 primary winners, 14 voted to overturn 2020 electoral votes and one voted to acquit in Trump’s second impeachment trial. Charen is right: The time to prevent the next coup attempt is now. Foolish is the individual who doesn’t believe it could happen again.

–Dana

117 Responses to “Asking the Question: What Are Americans Doing To Prevent the Next Coup Attempt?”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  2. In Pennsylvania the Governor appoints the secretary of state. The secretary of state will certify who wins Pennsylvania’s 20 electoral votes in 2024 and forward the certification to the governor, who will then forward it to a House of Representatives that will probably be run by Ken McCarthy.

    What do you think the chances are, if Mastriano is governor, that those electoral college votes will be for anybody besides Trump? I mean after the secretary of state has carefully eliminated all the votes he or she thinks are dubious or tainted, there’s really no question is there? And who thinks McCarthy will challenge whatever result he receives?

    Victor (4959fb)

  3. I agree that fundamentally, the way to prevent this is to be more engaged during the primaries and not only that, but nominate sane candidates.

    However, if factions pushing what happened on 1/6 and the electoral shenanigans as a “coup”, then don’t be surprised if those people who expressed voting concerns in 2020 to turn a blind eye to efforts like this. You need those folks to help support any efforts to strengthen the electoral process to avoid another 2020.

    Frankly, if the 2022 November elections does end up being a GOP bloodbath, I wonder during the Nov/Dec lameduck sessions if the parties would come together and pass some electoral fixes??

    whembly (c88102)

  4. This year, donors are spending millions in an attempt to unseat the execrable Marjorie Taylor Greene. Sigh. Trump won Greene’s district with 75 percent of the vote. This. Won’t. Work.

    They did defeat Madison Cawthorn. In a primary, but not in a court, which is good.

    He lost about 35% to 31% In North Carolina there is a runoff only if the top voter getter gets less than 30%

    Of course, Madison Cawthorn worked very hard to destroy himself.

    He lost by a small margin, but if a lot of votes were divided semi-randomly, a few percent understanding things is enough to defeat a candidate

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  5. Mona Charen has a good piece over at The Bulwark today, suggesting that there will be a next coup attempt and noting that there is no time to waste in preventing it from happening…

    Mona Charen is irrelevant.

    She’s part of the same ousted, elitist pundit cabal that desperately authored the 2016 ‘AGAINST TRUMP’ National Review issue which completely backfired and totally misread the simmering populism at the boil in the party. The tail no longer wags the dog; they’ve been shuffled to the bottom of the deck, out of the game. Mona, Liz and their ilk outta open a Tofu stand on K Street as a retirement project.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/national-review-donald-trump-issue-2016-1

    DCSCA (db41dc)

  6. Tangentially, we know that Trump backed 26 primary candidates, and out of that list, 23 won, with one race still undetermined.

    Some, like Rand Paul, were sure things. (actually Trump did that in 2021)

    At one point, he sounded like he might withdraw it.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/566521-trump-asks-if-rand-paul-has-learned-lesson-on-endorsements

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  7. They are probably not going to take over enough positions to overturn an election (there are a lot of checks and balances and back and forth here, as with other things) but they can create a great deal of trouble.

    And Trump may not even run. It is great uncertainty and I think hes decided not to.

    Would this be done on behalf of anyone else?

    As I once said the Republican Party is in danger of turning into the Communist Party

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  8. OT- “Mary Poppins” Jankowicz quits; Biden ‘Disinformation Board’ put “on pause.”

    “Sacked? Certainly not. I am never sacked!” – Mary Poppins [Julie Andrews] ‘Mary Poppins’ 1964

    DCSCA (db41dc)

  9. if trump wins, i doubt any of us can prevent the fbi from using a bogus election meddling pretext to overturn his election

    unlike this blog, we can at least call that nonsense out rather than cheer it on

    JF (354535)

  10. So you have no problem, JF, with Trump – or any president – trying to overturn a legitimate election and falsely assume victory. Is that correct?

    Dana (de18d2)

  11. Mona Charen is irrelevant.

    All this does is convince me that you remain desperate to shut down any discourse that reveals the increasing irrelevance of today’s MAGA Republican Party. Unfortunately, corrupt shenanigans and sycophancy continue to considered relevant to Trump’s GOP.

    Dana (de18d2)

  12. A small minority is going to stop the vast majority of republican populists from controlling the republican party. Right. Its already to late. The left is in the process of doing the same thing in the democrat party. Every day it is the same tilting at windmills. How many times does the republican populist party have to throw you out the door saying get out we don’t want you!

    asset (021463)

  13. JF, is it not possible that the Russia collusion theory and the 2020 stolen election claim are BOTH wrong?

    norcal (3f02c4)

  14. @11. Desperate to shut it down? Hardly. It a joy to watch them remind voters of why they’ve been rejected. They do it to themselves.

    The electorate isn’t buying it [inflation aside]– at least from the same tired old pundit voices. Can’t change the reality that Charen’s whine- and those of a similar ideological POV– are now out of favor and been roundly rejected; ineffective– as the election results and trends are repeatedly indicating. The old messengers and their tired old message fall on deaf ears.

    Welcome to 1964. American Populism-flying under the MAGA banner- is now firmly rooted in the Republican Party– and the old school Monas, Lizs, Jonahs and George Will types had their run and been roundly rejected by the party majority of today. But go ahead and attack the notion of ‘Making America Great Again’ and see if that works any better than the ‘Build Back Better’ pitch by Team Joey. It struck out, too.

    DCSCA (dd6b2d)

  15. Rule One of the coup: Declare victory whether you win the most votes or not:

    Trump urges Oz to ‘declare victory’ before vote tally complete in Pa.
    …….
    On Wednesday, the former president sought to declare on his social media site, Truth Social, that Oz had won, even though the race has not been called. He derided the mail-in ballots, posting: “Here we go again! In Pennsylvania they are unable to count the Mail-in Ballots. It is a BIG MESS. Our Country should go to paper ballots, with same day voting. Just done in France, zero problems. Get Smart America!”

    He later urged Oz to “declare victory.”

    “It makes it much harder for them to cheat with the ballots that they ‘just happened to find,’” Trump said, providing no evidence.
    ………
    There are “quite a few ballots” that remain to be counted in the Republican primary, acting secretary of the commonwealth Leigh Chapman said during an appearance on CNN. Though Chapman said she could not provide a number, figures from the Associated Press suggested that at least 24,000 absentee and mail-in ballots had yet to be counted. Oz was ahead by fewer than 2,500 votes.
    ###########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  16. @6. ‘Tangentially, we know that Trump backed 26 primary candidates, and out of that list, 23 won, with one race still undetermined.’

    “You know what the difference is between hitting .250 and .300 is? It’s 25 hits. Twenty-five hits in 500 at-bats is 50 points, okay? There’s six months in a season. That’s about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week. Just one. A gork. You get ground ball. You get a ground ball with eyes. A dying quail. Just one more dying quail a week and you’re in Yankee Stadium.” – Crash Davis [Kevin Costner] ‘Bull Durham’ 1988

    DCSCA (dd6b2d)

  17. Rule One of the coup: Declare victory whether you win the most votes or not

    Said Dubya to Gore over Florida in 2000. 😉

    DCSCA (dd6b2d)

  18. From Mona Charen’s piece:
    And what we’ve witnessed since the closing months of 2020, when Donald Trump first began to cast doubt on mail-in ballots, is the deliberate sabotage of trust in our elections. The spasm of violence on January 6th was the most visible evidence of the damage, but the undermining has accelerated.

    It didn’t begin with Donald Trump. Republicans and right wing media have been casting doubts on mail-in ballots and sabotaging trust in our elections for over a decade.

    Charen is right: The time to prevent the next coup attempt is now. Foolish is the individual who doesn’t believe it could happen again.

    Charen is wrong. It’s too late.

    PurpleHaze (ff7d1a)

  19. On the subject of people being at extremes, we have Republicans claiming Democrats are prepping to steal every election and Democrats claiming Republicans are planning a coup. The people in the middle should not get caught up with the views from in the fevered swamps and should show up to vote for the candidate between two that best reflects their concerns. I’m confident that will still work about as well as it always has for 200 years… in other words it may not be great, but it’ll be OK.

    steveg (b2037b)

  20. Ex-Republican explains she now believes her former party is filled with ‘enemies of democracy’

    In 2020, conservative columnist Mona Charen did something that would have shocked her readers back in the 1980s, 1990s or 2000s: she voted for a Democratic presidential nominee. Charen is among the veteran [meaning rejected ideological tail that wagged the dog] conservatives who — like Washington Post columnists George Will and Max Boot, MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough and The Bulwark’s Bill Kristol — was a blistering critic of Donald Trump’s presidency. And in an op-ed published by Haaretz on February 8, the former Nancy Reagan speechwriter lays out some of the reasons why she is glad to see President Joe Biden in the White House and considers pro-Trump Republicans enemies of democracy.

    https://www.alternet.org/2021/02/ex-republican/

    So… attagirl, Mona: thanks for America’s open southern borders w/illegals swarming in; thanks for 8.5% inflation, $50 billion on the cuff borrowed to ‘give’ for Ukraine; thanks for $6/gallon gas; $5.50/lb., hamburger; supply train issues; TP and baby formula shortage; the Afghan withdrawal debacle… and so much more. Thanks, Mona.

    And you wonder why the Populist GOP doesn’t listen to her whine. You cannot lead and will not follow. So get out of the way– or get run over– and left behind.

    DCSCA (dd6b2d)

  21. “American Populism-flying under the MAGA banner”

    * Which lost to an old whispering guy in his basement with a running mate no one likes….

    * Their leader sat and fiddled while his supporters laid siege to the Capitol…only true believers and dolts don’t see the problem with this….not everyone diets primarily on Fox News

    * Their leader continues to advance stolen election theories that scare the heck out of normal people….Trump on a ticket is all that is needed to bring out the DEM base…bigly

    * What policy ideas are coming out of the current GOP….crickets….or more bat crazy stuff. Not every voter is sitting around wearing their underpants as a hat. Pandemics, inflation, crime, immigration, and war…..ultimately people want smart people who have a clue and can get things done

    * Trump has probably set a record for cabinet members and advisors who publicly announced that they cannot support him for re-election. Nobody wants a quasi-deluded reality star getting advice from C-team back-benchers. Who the heck wants a leader who grants access to the grifting pillow-guy?

    “Mona Charen is irrelevant.”

    Substantive ideas are never irrelevant. Internet cranks….not so much.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  22. nothing. The ground work is already set for it to succeed, and at this point it’s probably too late to prevent. Republicans will take both houses of Congress in January and and they will spend th next congressional session air Ng and abetting I.

    aphrael (30dd0a)

  23. OT – MSNBC ‘Military Analyst’ Mistakes Video Game Clip for War in Ukraine

    Four-star general thought video game clip showed real war footage.

    Barry McCaffery, a 79-year-old retired four-star general, posted a video game clip to Twitter, claiming it was real-life war footage from Ukraine, according to The Post Millennial. McCaffery had stated in the post that he thought the clip showed a “display of strength” by Ukraine’s air defense before realizing he made a mistake and deleting the tweet. The original video is titled, “Russian MiG-29’s Get Shot Down By Air Defense System | Arma 3 #Shorts #Airdefense #Arma3,” and can be found in YouTube’s “shorts” section.
    Released September 2013, Arma 3 is an open-world military game, advertised as an experience in “true combat gameplay.” McCaffery’s original tweet was removed after Benny Johnson, a conservative personality, highlighted the error and noted the “misinformation” surrounding the war in Ukraine.

    In the since-deleted tweet, McCaffery stated, “Russian aircraft getting nailed by UKR missile defense. Russians are losing large numbers of attack aircraft. UKR air defense becoming formidable.” The video shows two in-game jets being shot down by an air defense system arranged on the ground.

    Max Boot, [surprise!] General McCaffrey’s Council on Foreign Relations colleague and columnist for The Washington Post, also appeared to have briefly retweeted the mistaken war footage.

    Other incidences of video game clips used as Ukraine war footage have also been reported, most notably, the “Ghost of Kyiv,” a fictitious pilot whose footage derived from a battlefield game known as Digital Combat Simulator. Popular social media platform, TikTok, has also shared numerous video clips and livestreams of supposed war footage that have since been marked as false.

    source- https://americanfaith.com/msnbc-military-analyst-mistakes-video-game-clip-for-war-in-ukraine/

    Not unlike that old image/video/clip some years ago of a supposed POW that turned out to be a toy GI Joe. Met McCaffrey some years ago in Hollywood; nice fella- but at 79- rightly retired; there’s a reason why ‘old soldiers’ retire, never die– and wisely just fade away. CIC Joe is 79; and will turn 80 in November.

    DCSCA (dd6b2d)

  24. @21. Substantive ideas are never irrelevant.

    Until they are.

    Welcome to 1964. Keep pitching, AJ. It only took the New York Mets 7 years to climb out of the cellar. But the whole team had to be retooled. T’was amazing– some even say, ‘a miracle.’

    DCSCA (dd6b2d)

  25. The most important thing is to avoid election that aren’t transparent, or are transparent in a way that invites question.

    In 2020, the PA counting was incredibly transparent, but some of the reports seemed contradictory, or just seemed odd. They reported the current vote count for the two candidates, by county, along with the current “ballots remaining to be counted” in each county.

    The problem was that the latter number kept climbing (by 10s of thousands hourly) in the larger (and urban) counties. Now, this could be explained by “everyone mailed their ballots on the last day”, or it could be explained by them accepting late-mailed ballots, or it could be explained by ballot-stuffing. I remarked on this, here, at the time.

    And there were really no eyes on the ballot-acceptance process. If you wanted to allege fraud in this, you easily could — all you had was the election workers attestations.

    This kind of misleading information should be avoided. Even if it is obvious incompetence, which can occur in government, it lowers trust in the process.

    Transparency is important, but it is ALSO important that the transparency increases confidence instead of decreasing it. We probably need cameras.

    We also need a better way of validating absentee ballots than signatures, which change over time, and the false-negatives (and maybe false-positives) that can occur. But I have no idea how to do this in a way that doesn’t create more room for doubt (e.g. crypto).

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  26. I am inclined to the view that the Stolen Elections will only be able to rig GOP primaries, and come the general election will win only safe GOP seats, resulting in more Democrats getting elected in toss-ups.

    nk (e2bf20)

  27. ‘What policy ideas are coming out of the current GOP….crickets…’

    To counter Joey??? ROFLMAO.

    “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.” ― Napoleon Bonaparte

    DCSCA (dd6b2d)

  28. There WILL be a next coup attempt. It’s called the “National Popular Vote Compact.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  29. This year, donors are spending millions in an attempt to unseat the execrable Marjorie Taylor Greene. Sigh. Trump won Greene’s district with 75 percent of the vote. This. Won’t. Work.

    Her district traditionally sends up crazy people. Bob Barr & Larry McDonald come to mind.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  30. * Which lost to an old whispering guy in his basement with a running mate no one likes….

    I had considered voting for Biden, but a very old man picking a left-side-MTG as VP ended that thought.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  31. AJ,

    To be fair, the ideas coming out of the WH are just as nutty. Wealth taxes, trillions of printing-press dollars, demonizing energy producers for producing, then later for not producing, appointing people by skin color, refusing to compromise on anything, then blaming everything on everyone else.

    The true votes as to successful policies are seen on the NY Stock Exchange. The market’s not a fan.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  32. I am inclined to the view that the Stolen Elections will only be able to rig GOP primaries, and come the general election will win only safe GOP seats, resulting in more Democrats getting elected in toss-ups.

    Certainly any candidate who cannot engage on the issues and keeps harping on the “Lost Cause” in November will be toast if the district is close. The PA governor’s race, or example. Then again I don’t know how widespread the feeling of being cheated is. It may be that he needs to keep talking about that to get his base to the polls.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  33. Not looking forward to Trump/MTG being the alternative to Warren/AOC. I might support a coup that resulted in someone else.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  34. Idiots…Boebert more likely to buckle after seeing a horses head…go for MTG next…

    https://www.businessinsider.com/lauren-boebert-pnext-on-madison-cawthorn-foes-hit-list-2022-5

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  35. 28, ha! Wont be an NPVC until the Trump_DeSantis or DeSantis_Vance regency is done in 2036 or 2040. Dems will cease to be and the plain ol Socialist party will be barely rump in size (hopefully the Federalists occupy the center + near right). That’s as likely as Florida, Ohio and Iowa being blue again.

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  36. The coup is taking place right now – Stagflation is out Starvation is in …

    mg (8cbc69)

  37. There’s usually not much reason for me to comment here because Kevin M. usually says what I’m thinking, only says it better. But, a small point, that maybe no one else would endorse: you don’t have to be a coup supporter to have questions about the 2020 election. I believe that we must accept that Biden won the election, because the alternative is chaos and further corrosion of trust in our institutions, which already seems at historic lows. I also think Trump behaved reprehensibly for several weeks in the run-up to January 6 and on that day as well, and would not vote for him in 2024 if by some series of disastrous mishaps he is the GOP nominee. But despite the lack of evidence, it’s been hard for me to shake the suspicion that the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden did not “really” win. It feels like what we used to call The Establishment back in the 1960s was so unalterably opposed to Trump that he was not going to be permitted to win, and in my heart I’m not at all sure that he didn’t.

    This sort of thinking vexes me when I see it in others; going with one’s feelings instead of evidence and facts can make a person impervious to logical argument and resort to endless question-begging, convenient moving of goalposts, etc. Perhaps it’s a reaction to the ultra-strident attacks on Trump in the period 2016-20 that also often seemed more based on emotion than facts. It would be great if going forward there could some common set of standards for conducting the next election so that a majority would trust the result even if the other side wins, but the Ds attack everything the GOP proposes as voter suppression and the GOP attacks everything the Ds suggest as a blatant attempt to legalize voter fraud, so it’s not looking all that great right now. Would love to be proven wrong.

    RL formerly in Glendale (48bc71)

  38. “Starvation is in …”

    Maybe not.

    Background

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  39. RL, I think this time you nailed what I’ve been thinking.

    The “steal” though, wasn’t in counting votes, but in a government-run GOtV effort titled towards Blue throughout October in many states. The huge increase in votes cast (27 million, or 21%, more than in 2016) is directly attributable to the mail ballots. In 2016, 21% mailed in their votes. In 2020, 43% mailed in their votes, and that difference matches up fairly well with the increase in votes cast.

    Trump, however, was complicit in this steal. He made it a test of loyalty to vote in person on Election Day, thereby giving the Democrats a free month of GOtV. Had he told his voters to vote absentee, he would have won easily. The election was Trump’s to lose, and he did.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  40. From The Dispatch:

    “Trump’s real goal isn’t to expand the party but to solidify his control of it. As Fred Bauer notes in National Review, Trump has been “more focused on asserting dominance over the GOP than ensuring that Republicans win elections.””

    Duh

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  41. Duh, indeed.

    Everything Trump has done is to divide the Party into loyal and disloyal. The only plank that matters to Trump is “Who’s the boss of me?”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  42. Getting back to the compact, as I tend to do, can you consider something as destabilizing as a bunch of states deciding to game the Electoral College to achieve a different result? Once that happens, no matter who wins, we have abandoned the Constitution (and 150 years of stare decisis) and replaced it with something else. And that something else will be tainted.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  43. Democrats, independents, and sane Republicans should focus instead on the critical local contests that will determine who counts the votes in 2024. Those unsexy races for local positions and administrative posts like secretaries of state could make the difference in 2024 between an election and a coup.

    Funny, it was Charen and that same crowd who spent over a generation down-talking government administration of any kind to the point that Republican voters declared that they’d never want to be involved in even local politics because “they weren’t dirty enough” to do so and other nonsensical pretenses. Fast forward to 2020, and the Democrats gained a political monopoly in every cultural arena that the neocons encouraged the GOP and its voters to disengage from.

    It’s not really a coincidence that Charen and the neocon crowd, and the Democrats and their media mouthpieces, are parroting the exact same alarm–“OMG, the GOP is getting involved in local politics like election and school boards! ARE DEMOKRASEE is in peril!” “We have to do something about these reactionaries! (that little pejorative certainly hasn’t changed in 100 years)”

    It’s all sour grapes. They aren’t screeching because these people are actually threat to the nation or its institutions; they’re screeching because the left’s monopolies in these areas are actually being challenged for the first time in roughly 40 years. And if it’s one thing that neocons in particular are deadly allergic to, it’s challenging the left on anything that might get them disinvited from the Vanity Fair-style cocktail parties in Megacity One.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  44. So you have no problem, JF, with Trump – or any president – trying to overturn a legitimate election and falsely assume victory. Is that correct?
    Dana (de18d2) — 5/18/2022 @ 1:13 pm

    nope

    i don’t know how you possibly came to that conclusion from my comment, but whatever

    JF (e4c056)

  45. Booed at CPAC

    Conservative Mona Charen on why she spoke out about her own side’s hypocrisy at a conference of her peers.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/mona-charen-on-why-she-spoke-out-and-got-booed-at-cpac.html

    Confucius say woman who sing off key make poor harmony. 😉

    DCSCA (77c3a5)

  46. JF, is it not possible that the Russia collusion theory and the 2020 stolen election claim are BOTH wrong?
    norcal (3f02c4) — 5/18/2022 @ 1:44 pm

    certainly

    i’ll bet you’re disappointed the post didn’t point that out

    JF (e4c056)

  47. “To be fair, the ideas coming out of the WH are just as nutty.”

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. I’m not a Democrat. I can just hope that “my side” offers a better product, competent government, and works toward some solutions. I can’t imagine Biden running for re-election. My bet is that people are already back-channeling replacement candidates for 2024…..and Harris will be well down that list.

    But the bigger point is that bad ideas don’t scare me….because they are easily exposed and beaten down. Just like the disinformation board. Just like the Build Back Better Bill. Just like Warren and her obsession with a wealth tax. Yes, Democrats are trapped in a bunch of bad ideas. Mix in the usual identity politics and the middle is wide open. Bad proposals open conservative doors.

    Biden and his team are sadly, but wonderfully, predictable. My bigger fear is chaos and what to expect from a Trump 2nd term, when he does not have to face another election. Pull us out of NATO? Likely. Pull us out of S. Korea. Likely. Let’s not pretend that some nutty wealth tax proposal that has zero chance of getting through the Senate is any where near as impactful as gutting NATO geopolitically. More trade wars? Probably. More toxic tweets? Of course. More support for Putin? Da. More fascination with our nuclear stockpile? Frighteningly, yes. Enough good people willing to say “no”? Worriedly, I’m not so sure.

    Biden is awful but he hasn’t tried to over-turn an election based on lies and goofy conspiracy theories. Biden hasn’t sat admiringly as a siege was thrown at the Capitol. Biden has difficulty keeping some facts straight, but he hasn’t worked to destabilize our alliances. Trump slimes every and any institution that crosses him. MAGA is a slogan, reality is that everything is about him…..and he seems more than eager to test the limits of his power. He lies, he cheats, and he doesn’t care when he gets caught doing either. I don’t want a sociopath back in the White House. I’m surprised that so many Americans do…..

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  48. urbanleftbehind @34,
    I have mixed feelings about the Madison Cawthorn “assassination”. Not that I like him, or the tactics that those creeps used to destroy him.

    It’s a strange kind of pride in America mingled with hope that I feel. That what got him defeated in a Republican primary in North Carolina would have guaranteed him a lifetime tenure in San Francisco.

    nk (e2bf20)

  49. Maybe it’s clearer if I phrase it the other way around? That what would have guaranteed Madison Cawthorn a lifetime tenure in San Francisco got him defeated in a Republican primary in North Carolina?

    nk (e2bf20)

  50. 1st Case of Rare Monkeypox in US This Year Confirmed in Mass.

    A case of monkeypox has been confirmed in Massachusetts, health officials said Wednesday. It’s the first case of monkeypox, a rare but potentially serious virus, in the United States this year, according to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health. Two U.S. cases were reported last year; nine cases have been identified in the United Kingdom this month.

    The man with the virus in Massachusetts had recently traveled from Canada, officials said, noting in a statement, “The case poses no risk to the public, and the individual is hospitalized and in good condition.”

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/man-tests-positive-for-extremely-rare-virus-monkeypox/3695254/

    Swell. Good time for Joe to exit, stage left, and make a trip to Asia.

    DCSCA (77c3a5)

  51. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    Didn’t say they did. But leaving the frying pan without examining the fire isn’t right either.

    Biden is awful but he hasn’t tried to over-turn an election based on lies and goofy conspiracy theories. Biden hasn’t sat admiringly as a siege was thrown at the Capitol.

    So? Yes, Trump should (literally) hang. But Biden’s (and the Democrats’) disapproval is more partisan than anything. Do you really believe that they would not have behaved JUST as the GOP has if Bernie’s mob had invaded the Capitol in some other timeline?

    Democrats are no more, and no less, committed to the Constitution than Republicans are. This virtue-assignment is risible.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  52. Some states have passed laws or in the process to have the state legislatures decide who gets the states electorial votes regardless of who won the popular vote. This will make for interesting times. Old chinese curse.

    asset (bedb8a)

  53. “This virtue-assignment is risible.”

    Really!? I think you’re going to hurt yourself bending over so far backwards to make Democrat foibles equivalent to Trump’s myriad ethical problems. You imply that him sitting and doing NOTHING while the Capitol was stormed is equivalent to what, Benghazi?!!

    “Do you really believe that they would not have behaved JUST as the GOP has if Bernie’s mob had invaded the Capitol in some other timeline?”

    Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Trump is ratcheting up what is now acceptable. Serially lying about election results years after the election, with no new evidence, is acceptable….and a prerequisite for representing the GOP. Think about that development. Blackmailing Zelensky is now OK because Biden did the same thing, even though he didn’t. Fluffing for Putin is OK because something about Hunter Biden and China. It’s OK to pull us out of NATO because maybe Obama wanted us to lead from behind. Unilaterally launching a missile attack against the Mexican cartels is a reasonable meander of the Commander in Chief?!

    No, Trump is dangerous because he has a deeply flawed character and a visible disdain for law and limitations of his power. He’s also not very bright. That’s why he praises authoritarian dictators and in public plays with the idea of suppressing opposing media voices. We will see which of us is right. You say he should hang, but simultaneously he’s supposedly no worse than anyone else. That’s pretty tough to square.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  54. @37

    There’s usually not much reason for me to comment here because Kevin M. usually says what I’m thinking, only says it better. But, a small point, that maybe no one else would endorse: you don’t have to be a coup supporter to have questions about the 2020 election. I believe that we must accept that Biden won the election, because the alternative is chaos and further corrosion of trust in our institutions, which already seems at historic lows. I also think Trump behaved reprehensibly for several weeks in the run-up to January 6 and on that day as well, and would not vote for him in 2024 if by some series of disastrous mishaps he is the GOP nominee. But despite the lack of evidence, it’s been hard for me to shake the suspicion that the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden did not “really” win. It feels like what we used to call The Establishment back in the 1960s was so unalterably opposed to Trump that he was not going to be permitted to win, and in my heart I’m not at all sure that he didn’t.

    This sort of thinking vexes me when I see it in others; going with one’s feelings instead of evidence and facts can make a person impervious to logical argument and resort to endless question-begging, convenient moving of goalposts, etc. Perhaps it’s a reaction to the ultra-strident attacks on Trump in the period 2016-20 that also often seemed more based on emotion than facts. It would be great if going forward there could some common set of standards for conducting the next election so that a majority would trust the result even if the other side wins, but the Ds attack everything the GOP proposes as voter suppression and the GOP attacks everything the Ds suggest as a blatant attempt to legalize voter fraud, so it’s not looking all that great right now. Would love to be proven wrong.

    RL formerly in Glendale (48bc71) — 5/18/2022 @ 5:28 pm

    If I could, I’d “like” and “retweet” this post all day.

    If you are so concerned about the integrity of our election process, or if you’re worried about a repeat of 2020 a better question ought to be:

    What can we do NOW to strengthen future elections?

    If your initial response to this question is some variation of:
    IT’S VOTER SUPPRESSION!
    or
    BIDEN TOTALLY STOLE THE ELECTION!!!

    You know you’re not engaging with a serious person, and the key here is THIS person is needed to push for legit electoral reforms…we need a large and broad consensus to push this through.

    How do we disabuse these folks from their initial reaction to join in the movement to ensure our elections is as robust and secure as possible?

    whembly (7e0293)

  55. @42

    Getting back to the compact, as I tend to do, can you consider something as destabilizing as a bunch of states deciding to game the Electoral College to achieve a different result? Once that happens, no matter who wins, we have abandoned the Constitution (and 150 years of stare decisis) and replaced it with something else. And that something else will be tainted.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/18/2022 @ 7:22 pm

    Once there’s enough states to trigger that, I’d suspect there’d be lawsuits to overturn that. I’m sure even this SCOTUS would take a very dim view of this.

    whembly (7e0293)

  56. Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Trump is ratcheting up what is now acceptable. Serially lying about election results years after the election, with no new evidence, is acceptable….and a prerequisite for representing the GOP. Think about that development. Blackmailing Zelensky is now OK because Biden did the same thing, even though he didn’t. Fluffing for Putin is OK because something about Hunter Biden and China. It’s OK to pull us out of NATO because maybe Obama wanted us to lead from behind. Unilaterally launching a missile attack against the Mexican cartels is a reasonable meander of the Commander in Chief?!

    No, Trump is dangerous because he has a deeply flawed character and a visible disdain for law and limitations of his power. He’s also not very bright. That’s why he praises authoritarian dictators and in public plays with the idea of suppressing opposing media voices. We will see which of us is right. You say he should hang, but simultaneously he’s supposedly no worse than anyone else. That’s pretty tough to square.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed) — 5/19/2022 @ 5:32 am

    Then you are oblivious to history or just gaslighting. We’ve seen leftists burn government courthouses, storm Congress during hearings, follow and harrass congressmen, commit repeated acts of arson and wanton destruction, declare parts of cities off limits and independent of the government and all with the support of leftist politicians.

    Take your nonsense elsewhere. No one is buying.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  57. “commit repeated acts of arson and wanton destruction”

    Encouraged and applauded by the head of the party?! No. But again, you’re making the mistake of not holding Trump accountable by looking to other bad actions. Should the country’s chief law forcement officer be rational and follow the law? If your answer is “no because….”, then the rule of law no longer matters to you…and you’ve devolved to the rule of force. Just admit it.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  58. https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/pro-abortion-advocates-threaten-to-storm-the-supreme-court-burn-it-down-and-murder-justices/

    Real insurrection: According to a Homeland Security memo, pro-abortion protesters have been organizing to storm the Supreme Court, burn it down, and murder justices in protest should the court decide to overturn Roe v. Wade.

    The threats also included attacking places of worship as well as anti-abortion clinics.

    As is typical nowadays, Homeland Security tried to de-emphasize the seriousness of these threats of violence from the left by first hinting it was really a response to white supremacy and thus possibly justified, and then claiming such violence is really nothing more than constitutional protected speech.

    Continue to minimize these escalations AJ. Keep carrying that water.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  59. asset has been trying to warn us about this for years.

    nk (098d31)

  60. Let me know when the first coup attempt occurred – its still a mystery to all law enforcement that one happened, I mean the FBI, the rest of the alphabet agencies still can’t find this mysterious phantom coup = it would be helpful if a list of coup removed politicians were posted or any facts other than leftist shrill.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  61. I have mixed feelings about the Madison Cawthorn “assassination”. Not that I like him, or the tactics that those creeps used to destroy him……
    nk (e2bf20) — 5/18/2022 @ 8:04 pm

    Cawthorn wasn’t “assassinated”, all his wounds were self inflicted. A good campaign manager would conduct opposition research on his own candidate, to identify any vulnerabilities and develop strategies to deal with them. The problem with Cawthorn was that he was a serial liar about so many things, and continued to do so while in office (“drug and orgy parties’), as well as racking up numerous traffic violations (including driving with a suspended license). You would think he would have been a more cautious driver since he was paralyzed in an accident (the circumstances of which was another instance of his lying).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. “Let me know when the first coup attempt occurred”

    Certainly the Capitol siege…by Hoyle….would not qualify as a coup. Too disorganized with too little probability of accomplishing anything more than a delay. Probably a riot intended to delay democracy is a better description. Now John Eastman’s Electoral Count Act mischief probably also falls into a different category as well. It was using some ambiguity in the act’s wording (“irregularly given”) to at least, in the moment, overturn the election…..and let’s face it, create chaos and uncertainty about the election outcome. We should be thankful to Pence and Judge Luttig for not taking us down that dark path. Trump’s response to efforts to clarify the ECA this year: “…how come the Democrats and RINO Republicans, like Wacky Susan Collins, are desperately trying to pass legislation that will not allow the Vice President to change the results of the election?”. I think Dana’s point is that some in the GOP are busily recruiting the assets needed to create chaos in 2024, should it be required. Should that effort be called “sabotage”, “corruption of democracy”, or maybe “electoral coup”? From Oxford dictionary, a coup is an illegal seizure of power…..what should throwing out some people’s votes to secure a desired result be called?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  63. Washington state gas stations run out of fuel, prep for $10 a gallon

    Gas stations in Washington state are resetting their price boards to accommodate double digits in preparation for fuel prices potentially reaching $10 a gallon, according to a report.

    The move comes as several gas stations in the Evergreen State ran out of fuel, the Post Millennial reported.

    At the 76 gas station in Auburn, about 30 miles south of Seattle, gas pumps were reprogrammed so the display could indicate a price of at least $10 a gallon.

    https://nypost.com/2022/05/19/washington-state-preps-for-10-gas-stations-run-out-of-fuel/

    Thanks, Mona.

    DCSCA (47e6b8)

  64. You imply that him sitting and doing NOTHING while the Capitol was stormed is equivalent to what, Benghazi?!!

    And again, I did not say that. What I said is that we only have the one example. Antifa and Bernie’s mob simply did not have the opportunity. The Democrats behavior, as shown by their inability to call out Antifa and the Seattle crowd, is only “virtuous” by not having been tempted.

    I despise Trump and all his works (save for signing off on the Federalist judges). I think that the GOP should have tossed Trump under the bus after Jan 6th. But they didn’t, not because they liked him but because he controlled too much of their base.

    Such political calculations are not unique to the GOP. Look at how far left Biden has gone, pulled by the need to satisfy the hard Left that has taken over his base.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  65. AJ,

    TY for your thoughtful response, Still, not seeing the coup evidence yet. Same for the FBI. Will patiently await the evidence

    EPWJ (ded958)

  66. Once there’s enough states to trigger that, I’d suspect there’d be lawsuits to overturn that. I’m sure even this SCOTUS would take a very dim view of this.

    I do too. Especially the latter. After 150 years of states surrendering to power to choose electors, the “rights” ratchet has certainly turned. Seven generations of adverse possession, etc. But to make the method of choosing a president the subject of lawsuits would be destabilizing, win or lose.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  67. AJ,

    I would like to see Trump tired for leading an insurrection, even raising arms against the United States. I will hold a party the day he dies. I do not defend him, but I do defend his hostages. That they are reluctant to speak ill of the man with the gun should not reflect on them, but on him.

    I also think that Democrats caught in the same situation would act the same way. In a much lesser case we saw Democrats defend a serial perjurer and sex criminal because their base demanded it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  68. I think Dana’s point is that some in the GOP are busily recruiting the assets needed to create chaos in 2024, should it be required. Should that effort be called “sabotage”, “corruption of democracy”, or maybe “electoral coup”? From Oxford dictionary, a coup is an illegal seizure of power…..what should throwing out some people’s votes to secure a desired result be called?

    And, again, we get back to the National Popular Vote Compact, which I don’t “think” but I know that the Democrat Party is “recruiting assets” that will certainly create chaos.

    “Should that effort be called “sabotage”, “corruption of democracy”, or maybe “electoral coup”? From Oxford dictionary, a coup is an illegal seizure of power…..what should throwing out some people’s votes to secure a desired result be called?”

    Why yes, it should.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  69. The comparison to the national popular vote compact is unfair and strikes me as being designed to express outrage while minimizing the the thing you are comparing it to.

    The NPVC is an attempt by people who think the electoral college is structurally flawed and undemocratic to find a way, working within the constraints of the system, to fix it. They are open about their goals and about their complaints, and their complaints — while you disagree with them — are based in a reasonable description of reality.

    What’s going on in the Republican party right now is an open attempt to pack political offices with people who have predetermined (without looking at evidence) that elections are corrupt and rigged, based on unfounded speculation and lies, and with a fairly strong implication that if future elections don’t produce the results they want/expect, they will simply *presume* corruption and overturn the results on the basis of their presumption.

    These are not the same *at all* and your insistence on bringing up the NPV every time anyone mentions the stop-the-steal nonsense is starting to suggest to me that you *approve* of the stop-the-steal nonsense … because every time it’s brought up you try to change the subject to talk about something which is substantially less harmful.

    aphrael (c91de4)

  70. The NPVIC, without congressional consent, violates the Compact Clause by harming non-signatory states. It also possibly violates the Presidential Elections Clause of Article II (yes states have latitude, just not infinite latitude that this presumes), and tries to materially change the Constitution (de facto eliminating the Electoral College) without amendment. It’s unconstitutional and I doubt even our divided Court would have much struggle with the question.

    Now is it the same ethically as either Eastman’s plan or the current tilt-the-field-for-Trump state strategy? It’s probably closer to Eastman’s plan that requires a questionable read of the act, but I view NPVIC as closer to the Line-Item Veto. It’s an expression of frustration that’s primarily meant for the base, but on closer inspection isn’t a close call constitutionally.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  71. Gasoline today: $6.33/gal, reg;, $6.53 gal. hi-test; $6.63 gal., premium.

    Thanks, Mona.

    DCSCA (895665)

  72. The NPVC is an attempt by people who think the electoral college is structurally flawed and undemocratic to find a way, working within the constraints of the system, to fix it

    You misspelled “subvert.”

    For the last 150 years, at least 7 generations, a state;s electoral vote has been assigned to the popular vote winner in that state. Attempting to subvert this system by extra-constitutional means is destabilizing. It is extra-constitutional not only for overturning 150 years of practice, but by attempting an illegal intrastate compact.

    Back when the Solid South and rural states were in the Democrat column, this was just fine with them, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, it’s “unfair.”

    There are constitutional methods of addressing this that do not rely on the incredibly fukking stupid idea of weighing votes in different states equally, assuming that you even trust their counting. Do you really trust the way they count votes in Florida when it matters? That stupid Texas suit versus Pennsylvania would have been in perfect order under a national vote regime.

    But getting back to the “coup” idea … if several GOP-run states decided that their gerrymandered legislature would choose the electors and that the state’s vote was merely advisory, that would be funtionally equivalent to the NPVC. But according to this post, it’s a “coup.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  73. 70…it would actually be wise for the Dems to pump brakes on NPV… only for the simple fact they were only 60,000 short of flipping Ohio in 2004 (getting to 272 EVs though remaining short nationally in PV).

    urbanleftbehind (889d52)

  74. It’s an expression of frustration that’s primarily meant for the base, but on closer inspection isn’t a close call constitutionally.

    AJ, I agree with all of that, except that it is closer than you think.

    “As of April 26, 2021, the bill has been enacted into law in 16 jurisdictions possessing 195 electoral votes.” Add MN, MI, VA, NC, AX, AR, ME and OK — where it has passed one house — and you have 277 electoral votes. In Nevada it passed both houses but was vetoed. Here in NM, it was the first bill the new Democrat governor signed.

    It’s more than a frustration, it is an active attempt at a coup.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  75. There are better, cleaner ways of addressing the Electoral College. The congressional district method is one. A proportional award is another. Neither of those require an interstate compact. Neither of those require trust in other state’s electoral processes (more than just vote-counting, registration and absentee rules differ wildly). Neither of those complicate recounts (and the CD method may ease them).

    A national vote system would soon require a national voting law overriding state election laws. I don’t think that is lost on the NPVC folks.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  76. Question (the Internet is refusing to answer this for me): Is there a federal voting law that restricts state voter roll expansion to, say 17yos, or non-citizens? Could they give everyone 6 votes?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  77. Question (the Internet is refusing to answer this for me): Is there a federal voting law that restricts state voter roll expansion to, say 17yos, or non-citizens? Could they give everyone 6 votes?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/19/2022 @ 12:32 pm

    Federal law prohibits non-citizens from voting in federal elections, but does not regulate state or local elections:

    In 1996, the U.S. Congress passed a law prohibiting noncitizens from voting in federal elections, such as U.S. House, U.S. Senate, and presidential elections. Federal law did not address state or local elections.

    As of March 2020, two state constitutions specified that noncitizens may not vote in state and local elections: Arizona’s and North Dakota’s. No state constitutions explicitly allowed noncitizens to vote in state or local elections.

    Fifteen municipalities across the country allowed noncitizens to vote in local elections as of January 2022. Eleven were located in Maryland, two were located in Vermont, one was New York City, and the other was San Francisco, California.
    ………
    Joshua A. Douglas, associate professor of law at the University of Kentucky College of Law, published an article in 2017 stating, “Municipalities can expand voting rights in local elections if there are no explicit state constitutional or legislative impediments and so long as local jurisdictions have the power of home rule.” Some states, for example, require that changes to local charters get approval from state legislatures, thereby limiting municipal authority over voter eligibility laws, whereas other states do not.

    Source. Footnotes omitted.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  78. While the 26th Amendment set a minimum voting age of 18, it does not preclude a state from setting a lower age.

    As of February 9, 2021, in 17 states, 17-year-olds turning 18 by the time of the general election were permitted to vote in that year’s congressional primaries.

    In 19 states, 17-year-olds could vote in the presidential primaries and/or caucuses of both major parties. In an additional four states, 17-year-olds could participate only in Democratic presidential primaries and/or caucuses.

    Source This information may be out of date, however.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  79. #20 and #72 DCSCA,

    Well said. Mona Charen favors everything the current administration does.

    DN (f72143)

  80. @76

    There are better, cleaner ways of addressing the Electoral College. The congressional district method is one. A proportional award is another. Neither of those require an interstate compact. Neither of those require trust in other state’s electoral processes (more than just vote-counting, registration and absentee rules differ wildly). Neither of those complicate recounts (and the CD method may ease them).

    A national vote system would soon require a national voting law overriding state election laws. I don’t think that is lost on the NPVC folks.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/19/2022 @ 12:30 pm

    I actually think awarding electors per electoral districts (and the final 2 electors by popular vote) is very doable and defensible.

    Fun fact, the electoral district method, Gore would’ve won in 2000 and Romney would’ve defeated Obama in 2012.

    whembly (7e0293)

  81. Good points all around on this thread, minus the usual suspect(s).

    Thank you!

    This blog and its commenters have taken my political understanding to a higher level, and sometimes have even changed my mind. Imagine that!

    norcal (3f02c4)

  82. I asked the vote-expansion question because, in a presidential election conducted by the off-the-cuff NPVC, a state could inflate its influence by expanding the voter base. We see minor expansions today with felons being allowed to vote, but if, say, CA could drop the age to 15 the could add 100s of thousands of votes to their total. For a number of reasons these votes would be for Team Blue. And suddenly you have a race to the bottom with Congress unlikely to disenfranchise the youngsters.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  83. Another problem with the ad hoc nature of the NPVC is that recounts get weird. Not all states belong to the NPVC, so what do you do in a close national election (say 50,000 votes out of 150 million)? TO call this destabilizing would be an understatement.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  84. Congrats to NASA and the ULA/Atlas team for getting Starliner off the pad and headed for orbital insertion. America has a new manned spacecraft. Outstanding.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  85. So, where did the solid boosters land? Are they OK?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  86. @87. Someplace off the East Coast; the Centaur conducts a “controlled disposal burn”– so they splash it someplace, likely the Indian Ocean, but it’s definitely a lot of hardware just ‘gifted’ to Davey Jones compared to SpaceX. ‘Man-rating’ the Atlas5 is apparently a big step along w/t Starliner itself. It really gets up, out and away from the pad PDQ.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  87. Thanks for the link, DCSCA, I caught the lift-off just in time.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/19/2022 @ 4:18 pm
    Heh! The boosters landed in the Atlantic off the Eastern coast. They planned the flight path to run up close to the Eastern coast so, in case of abort, a crew would not be in the middle of the ocean, but close enough to land for a speedy recovery.

    felipe (484255)

  88. Yep, DCSCA, Davy Jone’s locker.

    felipe (484255)

  89. @90. Yeah, a cost/benefit analysis should be done for NASA flight operations w/ULA and SpaceX. Still, it’s good to see Boeing back in the game w/a new crewed spacecraft. A space renaissance is underway for sure. Good future for young aerospace engineers.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  90. Re: man rating

    Yes, part of the safety requirements for a live crew, is to maintain a sustained 4g (or less) burn.

    felipe (484255)

  91. Quite exciting.

    felipe (484255)

  92. Both the NPVC and the Trump-backed scheme to overturn election results are bad, but the latter is worse than the former.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  93. @92/93. Yeah, if you think about it across the board, several countries are really throwing a lot of new and innovative stuff up there. It’s great to see- just too bad so much time was lost for a generation or two- but the next decade or two should be quite enlightening and exciting– and we can all follow it along on our gadgets. Sure beats watching war.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  94. Amen, DCSCA.

    felipe (484255)

  95. @96. Honestly, never expected Webb to unfold and begin operations as smoothly and as glitch-free as it has so far given the complexities involved. It’s really a tribute to the teams operating it all.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  96. Yeah, sorry for the snark in 87. A little bit at least. It is good to see the official US space program back in business. Except for JPL, they took a terrible diversion into the Shuttle system. Probably why DCSCA hates Tricky Dick so much.

    As for the fantasy space program that should have been, “For All Mankind” starts season 3 June 10th. Apple +

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  97. It’s great to see- just too bad so much time was lost for a generation or two

    When I was a kid, and Mercury and Gemini and Apollo were going, my dream was to be one of those guys in mission control, like my uncle who was a JPL engineer on Explorer I. But by the time I graduated college in 1976, is was all shut down and I had to find another path. I envy those kids at SpaceX like you cannot believe.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  98. @98. Yeah, Nixon wasn’t very friendly to it- a Kennedy thing and all that; the ol’story was that Haldeman rolled out a congressional map and noted which districts w/NASA facilities were D, R and how they voted– and red-penciled them accordingly.

    But by the time I graduated college in 1976, is was all shut down and I had to find another path

    Same here. Wanted to work w/t NASA PAO group- didn’t matter where; they sent me an application packet literally an inch thick and at the same time the budgets wdere being cut so deeply, they could barely keep the lights on. So opted for another path but vowed to pitch the programs in whatever gig I had. And did. Visited KSC in ’78 and it was so depressiing- overgrown fields literally w/pieces of Saturns laying in the fields; the Saturn V there exposed to the elements on its side, covered w/seagull droppings.

    JPL today has a lot of projects in work- and some partners w/deep pockets, too. Really good time for young engineers and managers to get into it. You know what they say, timing is everything. We just missed it.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  99. @98. Have a really detailed book on Shuttle history. They redesigned the frigging thing so many times it’s utterly mind-boggling and a wonder it ever got flying at all– and always due to budget constraints rather than engineering goals.

    The original concept was a much smaller shuttle as part of a shuttle/space station system to ferry cargo and crews up to and back from it. But Nixon cratered it all but the shuttle and cancelled the last three Apollos- even after the hardware was purchased– all that was needed was operations budgets. So the hardware is in museums. For instance, the Apollo/Saturn at JSC/Houston is [or was] a an actual flyable Saturn V rocket and CSM spacecraft- just left to the elements– and refurbished several years ago and put under cover.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  100. I think Trump has been intentional about solidifying control of the GOP, but am of the opinion that he thinks that GOP under his control equals, growth, expansion, prosperity because his high opinion of himself won’t let him believe otherwise.

    The GOP will move on and all but the trumpiest of trumpers will vote to win

    steveg (360f53)

  101. Also of the opinion that if the Democrats actually do steal an election- for the greater good of America, of course- there will be a coup/insurrection that will make Jan6 look like a buddhist peace march

    steveg (360f53)

  102. What happens when Trump runs for re-election against this Keystone Kops administration and wins by a 20 point margin? I expect spontaneous combustion.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  103. Boeing Starliner docking to ISS in progress- small delay due to software snafu w/ to docking ring but cleared.

    Beautiful television.

    https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive

    DCSCA (8dbc93)

  104. I dunno. Each administration makes the previous one look better than it was. Right now, we are approaching the 27th wave of Covid, gas is pushing $7/gallon in CA, interest rates are 1% and inflation is at 8% and the stock market is in the toilet. Cars and baby formula are hard to find, and bacon has doubled in price.

    I guess if I was transgender and hoping to have my nuts cut off at a discount, this would be the best of times, but for most of us things are tough, even though everyone has a job.

    I think that the Democrats are going to be very surprised indeed.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  105. Looks like they had to back up and try again. Not very good on the tolerances.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  106. I expect spontaneous combustion.

    Expect this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW-0kbIcf1E

    DCSCA (8dbc93)

  107. @107. Some kind of snafu w/extending the docking ring on the spacecraft; ground cleared it but still, a helluva lot of thruster activity w/this one, too.

    DCSCA (8dbc93)

  108. I expect this:

    https://youtu.be/ZD24VY0YWdQ?t=42

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  109. Somebody missed the K.I.S.S. lecture at engineering school. I suspect the Russians on the station are saying rude things.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  110. @110. ROFLMAOPIP! Certainly w/t No Trump, establishment GOP– and all Ds.

    Bill Kristol and George Will should make for some pretty colors. 😉

    DCSCA (8dbc93)

  111. The launch has been perfect so far, too. I may laugh at gigabucks NASA, but I do want them to succeed.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  112. @111. Agree. Starliner may be ‘over-engineered’ in design than the Dragons.

    DCSCA (8dbc93)

  113. @113. Well, this was their… what… third try; the thruster activity was enough to be noticeable just in passive viewing. They likely have some small bugs to work. Appears to be more staff ‘on console’ for this vehicle, too.

    DCSCA (8dbc93)

  114. Agree. Starliner may be ‘over-engineered’ in design than the Dragons.

    There’s no profit in under-enginering.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  115. @116. True.

    Another MIC axiom. 😉

    DCSCA (8dbc93)


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