Patterico's Pontifications

3/17/2022

Constitutional Vanguard: Make Putin Pay

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:28 pm



Today’s newsletter for paid subscribers raised a pressing issue about any possible peace deal between Russia and Ukraine:

The one glaring thing missing, to me, is any suggestion that Russia must pay reparations.

Far be it from me to suggest that I know better than Ukraine’s president Zelensky what his people need to justify an end to the war. They’re the ones being shot at and bombed, and they are in the best position to judge whether and how to end it.

. . . .

No amount of money can bring back the dead children and other civilians. But Russia can be made to pay. And if Ukraine does not want to make that a condition of its peace deal, we can still demand it.

. . . .

Unless we make it clear that Russia must pay to make Ukraine, if not whole, then as close to “whole” as possible through the spending of money, then Russia will keep escalating its violence, and killing civilians in an effort to strengthen its “bargaining” position. We should make it clear at once that Russia’s bargaining position gets worse with each new day of destruction, as that is another day for which Russia — in particular its oligarchs — will have to atone.

The piece goes on to suggest that we already have a lot of Russia’s money in our hands.

So let’s get to work making sure there is redress for the unjustifiable aggression we have seen.

Read the post here. Subscribe (with a seven-day trial option available) here.

24 Responses to “Constitutional Vanguard: Make Putin Pay”

  1. Yeah, kill and make a bunch of Russians suffer. That’ll do it. JFC

    Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway (cad170)

  2. Yeah, kill and make a bunch of Russians suffer. That’ll do it. JFC

    The dumbest type of Internet comment is an insulting one that demonstrates the person did not read the piece.

    From the piece:

    No peace deal can tie our hands on the issue of whether to lift sanctions. We decide whether to lift sanctions. If there is a cease-fire, I’d be much quicker to lift those sanctions that hurt the Russian people, many of whom oppose the war, and much slower to lift sanctions on oligarchs.

    If you want to read the piece before saying stupid things that are contradicted by the piece, there is, as I say, a seven-day trial available where you can read it for free.

    Or, perhaps you don’t want to sign up for a free trial. In that case, you would do well to remember the words often attributed to Honest Abe lincoln, but whose provenance is unsure: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.”

    Patterico (7e54d1)

  3. Also, “Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway,” please be sure not to comment while driving!

    Patterico (7e54d1)

  4. From my comments over there:

    Putin wins if there is a deal that removes sanctions and leaves him in control of additional territory. He then “declares victory and leaves.” Without any Western guarantees or support, it will only be a matter of time until the Russians return.

    The current bombing of civilian areas is designed to force a deal on Russian terms. I’m not there, so I haven’t any skin in the game, but it would seem that winning is a better option. If they can get the Russians to withdraw unilaterally then they can decide their future, not Russia.

    And Putin needs to be tried for war crimes in any deal.

    Kevin M (38e250)

  5. Whose the Judge, Kevin M? Wiley Coyote? or China?

    mg (8cbc69)

  6. Honestly, I don’t see the end of the war in Ukraine as something which can be negotiated. For two reasons: We can never trust the Soviets to keep any deal because they will always be paranoid, treacherous, backstabbers with an inferiority complex a mile deep; and they will never trust the West to keep any deal because they are paranoid, treacherous, backstabbers with an inferiority complex a mile deep and they don’t trust anybody.

    It is not a choice and it is not a desirable goal, but it is reality: We will always need to have Russia in a headlock and we will always be in dire peril should our arms get tired and we relax our hold.

    nk (1d9030)

  7. nk (1d9030) — 3/18/2022 @ 5:22 am

    Ah, The Buck Owens paradox.

    felipe (484255)

  8. Exactly, felipe. I also like:

    There was a young lady from Niger,
    Who smiled as she rode on a tiger.
    They came back from the ride,
    With the lady inside,
    And the smile on the face of the tiger.

    That’s how I see the relationship the West tried to develop with Russia in the last 30 years.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. You already know the “scratch a Russian” saying. Do you also know the origin of “caught a Tartar”?

    At a Roman encampment by the Black Sea, the centurion hears a commotion at one of the sentry posts. He shouts, “What’s going on there?” The sentry responds, “I’ve caught a Tartar, sir!” “Well”, yells the centurion, “bring in him in!” And the sentry yells back, “The Tartar won’t let me.”

    nk (1d9030)

  10. The more civilians that Putin murders, the less likely I see a peace deal between Putin and Zelenskyy.
    For that reason, I don’t see Putin’s War Against Ukraine truly ending until the Russian dictator’s occupation ends in all of Ukraine, including Donbas, including the Crimean peninsula, including Sevastopol, where Russia was leasing the land for its naval base.
    Because of this, I don’t see sanctions ending anytime soon, not until after Putin is removed from power and not until after a suitable post-Putin period where the new government has shown itself to be a responsible party.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  11. Blinken sets a standard for lifting sanctions: an ‘irreversible’ Russian withdrawal

    …..If the war ends, Ukraine’s independence, territorial integrity, sovereignty are restored, then many of the tools that we’re using to get to that result – of course, that’s the purpose of them. They’re not designed to be permanent……..We will want to make sure, they will want to make sure that anything that’s done is, in effect, irreversible, that this can’t happen again, that Russia won’t pick up and do exactly what it’s doing in a year or two years or three years…..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. The one glaring thing missing, to me, is any suggestion that Russia must pay reparations.

    There are ways to do that informally, and it shouldn’t be a sticking point – after all the sanctions would remain over their head until lifted.

    Russia and its allies did not make France+ pay reparations after the Napoleonic wars (although they did make Napoleon abdicate, and not in favor of his son. As a matter of fact, they even gave him a pension and the rule of Elba. Although that first settlement didn’t work out.)

    What;s really missing is any hint from the Biden Administration of trying to get Putin removed from power, in spite of being a war criminal.

    Sammy Finkelman (46ec7d)

  13. Patterico (7e54d1) — 3/17/2022 @ 8:49 pm

    words often attributed to Honest Abe lincoln, but whose provenance is unsure: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.”

    I thought it was Calvin Coolidge (“Silent Cal”) who said that, although I don’t think he tried to claim it was anything but a proverbial saying.

    I note that it says in your link that the earliest attribution to Lincoln is from 1931, after Calvin Coolidge’s presidency.

    Sammy Finkelman (46ec7d)

  14. What;s really missing is any hint from the Biden Administration of trying to get Putin removed from power, in spite of being a war criminal.

    The persons who can remove Putin from power are either his military leaders who have been embarrassed by his use of their troops or the oligarchs whose fortunes will be used to rebuild Ukraine (or at least to pay for weapons sent to Ukraine.)

    It is not the role of the US to remove Putin from power for “war crimes.” In fact, if that is the stated aim of the US, then what does Putin have to lose by fighting to the bitter end? Since neither the US, Ukraine, or Russia recognize the International Criminal Court (ICC), the UN would need to set up a special tribunal. At most the US can turn over any evidence (refugee testimony, satellite images, electronic intercepts) to whatever tribunal is created.

    It is possible that any peace deal between Ukraine and Russia would preclude prosecution of war criminals on both sides. At a minimum Ukraine has violated the Geneva Convention by filming its Russian POWs.

    War crimes have been committed by all countries at some point in their history. So the price for peace in Ukraine may be ignoring (again) the Russian atrocities in Ukraine.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. I am reminded of Article 231, ” the War Guilt clause ” in the Treaty of Versailles after World War I.

    Even at the time, many criticized the idea (or scale) of reparations as vindictive or excessive. In any case the results experienced differed wildly from those intended.

    What is different this time? Or what, in the implementation, be done differently?

    pouncer (eb8642)

  16. The longer the war goes on the less generous the peace. Only Putin can change that dynamic.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  17. Revisit the general history of ‘war reparations’ – and then the specifics around ‘reparations’ for Chernobyl. The costs are staggering. The details surrounding the ongoing, multi-level damage from Chernobyl are also a warning from the past to quash loose chatter by armchair generals in the TeeVee Talking Heads Club on any ‘low yield’ nuke[s] being unleased by Vlad.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster?msclkid=3f7a38b6a6e411ec9f5fd27af96bf13e

    https://anthronow.com/online-articles/nuclear-payouts-knowledge-and-compensation-in-the-chernobyl-aftermath?msclkid=3f7a1fc9a6e411ecbc7ae483433ba50b

    https://praguesociety.org/2021/article-35th-anniversary-of-the-accident-at-the-chernobyl-nuclear-power-plant/?msclkid=3f79f886a6e411ec94115667133382f0

    “Most authorities agree that the [Chernobyl] exclusion zone’s radiation levels will dwindle down to liveable degrees in 24,000 years time (Phys.org 2019)”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  18. Whose the Judge, Kevin M? Wiley Coyote? or China?

    I’d settle for you, mg.

    Kevin M (38e250)

  19. That’s how I see the relationship the West tried to develop with Russia in the last 30 years.

    It’s turning out that this is what Putin has been trying for the last 20.

    Kevin M (38e250)

  20. …Putin’s War Against Ukraine truly ending until the Russian dictator’s occupation ends in all of Ukraine

    Which Putin cannot survive. They probably lose Belarus in the aftermath. Maybe even Kalinigrad.

    Kevin M (38e250)

  21. I don’t do robes

    mg (8cbc69)

  22. In my twisted world Putin is guilty, Kevin M.

    mg (8cbc69)

  23. See, I knew that your disinclination to send soldiers to war didn’t affect your moral sense.

    Kevin M (38e250)

  24. I don’t do robes

    What about wigs?

    Kevin M (38e250)


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