Patterico's Pontifications


Constitutional Vanguard: Yes, the Crazies Really Do Have Influence

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:26 am

Today’s post is another long thumb-sucker, this time on the topic of whether people espousing some crazy views, like Candace Owens or Joe Rogan, really do have influence. We’re often told these days that they don’t. But they have very large audiences — and as I am at pains to show in this piece, that matters:

I think it’s easy to miss just how large an audience 11 million people really is. I think the following question really helps drive it home. What if I were to ask you how many Joe Rogan fans will likely commit suicide in the year 2022? Before moving on to the next paragraph, ask yourself: what would your gut tell you? Close your eyes and muse upon the subject before you read on any further. See if you can come up with an answer. Zero people? One or two? A handful? Don’t read the next sentence until you have your own answer.

What was your answer? Well, given that I am asking the question, you’re probably guessing higher than you otherwise would. Maybe you guessed a dozen? As many as twenty? Surely it can’t be that high!

For the answer, click here and read the whole thing for free. Subscribe here.

P.S. I initially used the term “conservative crazies” in the title, but I have removed the word “conservative” because Rogan is not himself conservative, although the dark aspersions he casts on COVID vaccines are widely embraced by the movement that currently calls itself “conservative.” Truly, we need a new word for the crazy movement — or, possibly, we need a new word for those of us who have always been what we used to call conservative.

29 Responses to “Constitutional Vanguard: Yes, the Crazies Really Do Have Influence”

  1. hat if I were to ask you how many Joe Rogan fans will likely commit suicide in the year 2022? Before moving on to the next paragraph, ask yourself: what would your gut tell you?

    My gut would say nothing, and then nothing special, but the average suicide rate in the USA was about 13 person per 100,000, so multiplying by 110 we get 1,500 to 2,000, assuming the audience skews older. Most have nothing to do with listening to Joe Rogan. It could be they have less family and that might skew it up. One problem is that 11 million audience figure. Is there any double counting?

    Sammy Finkelman (46ec7d)

  2. Do they have influence, as in changing people’s opinions? Or do they just have a posse?

    Kevin M (38e250)

  3. I am more sanguine.

    To paraphrase Deng Xiaoping, in an America of 330 million people, selling 3 million bottles of snake oil is enough to keep the snake-oil salesman in business but that’s all it is. It’s not going to shut down Walgreens.

    In the “competition” of ideas (as opposed to the “marketplace” of ideas), scoring one point out of a hundred is not going to give anyone the cup.

    nk (1d9030)

  4. While I don’t regularly see or read either Candace Owens or Joe Rogan, naming them as examples of “crazies” reminded me of my psychology classes description of projection.
    I stop by here to read several regular commenters who fit my definition of “alternate mentalities” to keep perspective.

    william Jones (b879d3)

  5. Yes, the Crazies Really Do Have Influence

    Indeed; welcome to 1964:

    ‘A similar situation came about in 1964, in what was one of the most hotly contested and contentious Presidential races up to that point in history. News that the KKK and the staunchly radical right-wing group The John Birch Society threw their full support behind Barry Goldwater, the Republican candidate for President. The move had many, particularly those in the Republican Party, who were wary of supporting Goldwater in the first place, now convinced the Goldwater forces had hi-jacked the Party and were taking in a direction few imagined would happen.

    To the KKK and the Birchers, Goldwater was “a man who spoke his mind” and “got things done” [sound familar?] and was hawkish when it came to war with the Communists. It was Goldwater who had advocated the use of nuclear weapons, should the need call for it. And although, during this interview with vice-Presidential running mate William Miller, he denies he “actually said it”, the inference was enough to cause many to believe Goldwater was on the wrong side of history, and that the GOP had clearly lost their way.’ -source,-,behind%20Barry%20Goldwater%2C%20the%20Republican%20candidate%20for%20President.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  6. But I do agree that the GOP these days has a strong whiff of the tail wagging the dog.

    nk (1d9030)

  7. To me, Candace, Tucker, have both been a few licks short of a lollipop

    EPWJ (0fbe92)

  8. North carolina AG rejects madison cawthorn’s appeal that the 14th amendment’s insurrectionist clause doesn’t apply to him because 0f 1872 amnesty for confederate traitors. Ag points out law has been used in the 1900’s to band traitors and seditionists like him from public office.

    asset (273366)

  9. So-called conservatives used to tell a joke after the 1964 election:

    “I was told that if I voted for Goldwater there would be race riots in the cities and war in Vietnam. I voted for Goldwater and that’s what happened.”

    DN (3966d9)

  10. Breaking-

    2 Prosecutors Leading N.Y. Trump Inquiry Resign, Clouding Case’s Future

    The two prosecutors leading the Manhattan district attorney’s investigation into former President Donald J. Trump and his business practices abruptly resigned on Wednesday amid a monthlong pause in their presentation of evidence to a grand jury, according to people with knowledge of the matter. The stunning development comes not long after the high-stakes inquiry appeared to be gaining momentum, and throws its future into serious doubt.

    The prosecutors, Carey R. Dunne and Mark F. Pomerantz, submitted their resignations after the new Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg, indicated to them that he had doubts about moving forward with a case against Mr. Trump, the people said.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  11. asset,

    except he’s not a traitor. There has been no trial, no adjudication.

    EPWJ (0fbe92)

  12. @11 most confederates were not tried and convicted. Victor berger in 1919 had the 14th amendment’s insurrectionist clause applied to him for violating it and was not allowed in congress N.C. AG pointed out.

    asset (86481f)

  13. asset,

    not true, please confine your comments to more truthful side of things. Democrats, since 1964, have made the Jan 6th stolen election lawful protest look tame.

    Educate yourself on the subject

    EPWJ (0fbe92)

  14. @13 True most confederates were not tried and convicted of treason. Only a few like davis, forrest, mosby and the andersonville prison commandant.

    asset (86481f)

  15. It isn’t Joe Rogan alone.

    Sammy Finkelman (46ec7d)

  16. asset,

    democrats have used different slates of electors, tried outright to bribe electors in Bush Gore and Bush Kerry as well as Dukakis Bush. Almost 1/2 of current dem reps have objected to the certification of votes.

    It really is beyond beyond what they are doing.

    EPWJ (0fbe92)

  17. @15. Joe who, Sammy? 😉

    OTOH, he may really just be ‘entertainment fodder’ for the addicted, gadget-hooked kids; an audience glued to their phones w/time to waste consuming “podcasts.” W/o the opinioncablers and mainstream news- ever hungry for content- conveying stories on this web dude, wouldn’t know, or care about his outgassing. Who cares? Back in the day, before radio networks were firmly established w/license requirements, stands and practices, etc., individual shortwave radio mouthpieces w/small footprints – depending on the equipment at hand- would fill the air w/similar static. But hey, if he can make some sucker bucks at it, go for it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  18. In 1964 the republican party traded Abraham Lincoln and black republicans for storm thurmond and the KKK and hasn’t looked back since with nixon’s southern strategy and reagan going to philadelphia mississippi where the 3 civil rights workers were killled to welcome ignorant southern white trash racists into the republican party.

    asset (aae405)

  19. asset,

    Okay, you’re a russian bot, we got it.

    EPWJ (0fbe92)

  20. Cawthorn is not a traitor, since he doesn’t meet the Constitutional definition of one. As a matter of opinion, he is an insurrectionist based on his conduct.

    Assuming his case reaches a hearing, it will be interesting, and might provide more evidence for the January 6th Committee.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  21. @11 most confederates were not tried and convicted.

    And therefore were not “traitors.” You can’t just accuse someone of something and have it become true. Not even through the worker’s collective secret denunciation box.

    Kevin M (38e250)

  22. asset really is a screamer, isn’t he?

    Kevin M (38e250)

  23. Whether individual Confederates were tried or convicted, they waged war against the US it would be fair for the public to consider them traitors.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  24. Kevin M (38e250) — 2/23/2022 @ 2:21 pm

    You can’t just accuse someone of something and have it become true.

    You mean like when you have accused Trump of committing treason?

    I have repeatedly stated that I think that Trump committed treason and should be tried, convicted and hanged on the Mall.


    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  25. I don’t understand how a difference on one political issue, however important, defines an individual as “in” or “out” of a group.

    Does supporting BLM’s call for police body cameras make me a liberal, regardless of all else? Does supporting capital punishment make me a conservative, regardless of all else? Does skepticism about Janet Reno’s justification for armored invasion of the David Koresh/Branch Davidian compound make me a conspiracy nut? Does scorn for Oliver Stone’s “JFK” or Dylan Avery’s “Loose Change” make me a rationalist? Does belief that Hillary Clinton should be kept far far away from public office in any capacity make me reactionary? Does the notion that Donald Trump, weird as he is, was motivated by concerns other than money make me gullible?

    pouncer (6c33cf)

  26. I have repeatedly stated that I think that Trump committed treason and should be tried, convicted and hanged on the Mall.

    Brussels claims first dibs, Kevin 😉 :

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  27. A person is the thing when they commit the act. The guy who steals my package off of my porch is a thief even if they never figure out who it was. They can’t be a convicted whatever until they are convicted though.

    Nic (896fdf)

  28. There really were some people killed by a Covid vaccine, (AstraZeneca) although the people against probably don;t discuss anything accurately.

    —Vikki Spit’s partner of two decades received his first Covid-19 shot in early May. Two weeks later, he died from a condition doctors for the 48-year-old former punk rock musician attributed to a rare vaccine side effect.

    Ms. Spit now lives alone in a north England farmhouse, home to the couple’s rescue pets. Finances are tight. She struggles to maintain the online art-resale business her partner, who went by a single legal name, Zion, had started. She’s learning to drive—a task that had always fallen to him…

    …“The problems are extremely rare,” said Kurt Weideling, whose wife, Nicola Weideling, 45, died in the spring in Southampton, England, from a condition doctors cited as a vaccine side effect. “That doesn’t make people any less dead.”

    ….One serious side effect is called “vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia,” or VITT, linked to the shot co-developed by AstraZeneca PLC and the University of Oxford. Doctors for Ms. Spit’s partner and Mr. Weideling’s wife cited VITT after an AstraZeneca shot as the suspected cause of the conditions that led to their deaths.

    The U.K.’s medicines regulator has received 438 reported cases of suspected VITT associated with the AstraZeneca shot. Of those suspected cases, 79 were reported to have been fatal. The U.K. leaned heavily on the shot in its vaccine rollout, administering more than 49 million AstraZeneca doses, among roughly 139 million doses the government has administered overall…. U.K. officials credit Covid-19 vaccines with saving more than 130,000 lives.,,

    ,,,U.S. health officials say nine people have died there from complications of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome, the name U.S. officials use for VITT, after receiving a Johnson & Johnson shot, out of more than 18 million J&J doses given.

    More on VITT:

    Canadian researchers say they have pinpointed a handful of amino acids targeted by key antibodies in the blood of some people who received AstraZeneca’a Covid-19 vaccine, offering fresh clues to what causes rare blood clots associated with the shot.

    Since the vaccine should contain nothing that’s not in the original virus’ Wuhan variant, this can probably also be caused by the virus, or how somebody’s body reacts to it, and indeed blood clors are a very serious possible effect of Covid, and hospitalized patients are in many cases given Vitamin D3 to deal with this situation. In New York, in the beginning, there was a rise in the number of fatal heart attacks.

    Sammy Finkelman (46ec7d)

  29. Speaking of crazies with influence

    CNN’s Covid expert Dr Leana Wen – 9/10/21:

    The Unvaccinated Should Not Allowed To Leave Their Homes

    CNN’s Covid expert Dr Leana Wen – 9/15/21

    Remaining unvaccinated in public should be considered as bad as drunken driving

    CNN’s Covid expert Dr Leana Wen – 2/22/22

    …..we need to shift from measures adopted collectively, to tactics taken individually by people who are judging their own individual risk against their degree of caution.”

    Pretty soon all the Corona crazies are going to be claiming DeSantis followed their lead.

    Obudman (893091)

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