Patterico's Pontifications

1/11/2022

Looks Like It Was Biden’s Education Secretary Who Proposed the “Parents as Terrorists” Idea to the NSBA

Filed under: General — JVW @ 6:05 pm



[guest post by JVW]

In one of Dana’s Weekend Open Threads from this past fall we discussed the ongoing kerfuffle and fallout about the Biden Justice Department acting upon a letter from the National School Boards Association which compared parents who spoke out, sometimes heatedly, at local school board meetings to domestic terrorists. The Justice Department ended up directing the FBI to investigate alleged “violent threats” against school board members, most of which were overblown or possibly contrived. Once word of this power play got out, the backlash was quick and severe with the NSBA apologizing and taking a definite hit in membership levels. For his part, Attorney General Merrick Garland refused to apologize or rescind his directive, so theoretically it is still in effect to this day.

Dana’s weekend item made clear that the Biden White House was involved in coordinating the drafting of the letter with the NSBA, with employees at both the Education Department and Justice Department participating in the cobbling together of this memo before it was eventually sent to President Biden on September 29. Five days later, the notorious Garland directive was issued. But today we have learned that Secretary of Education Miguel Cordona himself helped set the process in motion:

Education Secretary Miguel Cardona solicited the National School Boards Association (NSBA) letter to the Biden administration that compared parents of students to domestic terrorists, according to emails obtained by Parents Defending Education.

NSBA secretary-treasurer Kristi Swett wrote in an email on October 5th that NSBA interim CEO Chip Slaven “told the officers he was writing a letter to provide information to the White House, from a request by Secretary Cardona.”

“Should this allegation be true, it would reveal that this administration’s pretextual war on parents came from the highest levels,” Nicole Neily, president of Parents Defending Education, told Fox News, which first reported the emails. “If Secretary Cardona was truly involved in this ugly episode, it is a significant breach of public trust, and he should be held accountable.”

To recap, what seems to have transpired is the following: A left-wing activist Secretary of Education contacted executives at NSBA to suggest they draft the notorious letter as a pretext for the Justice Department to get involved. The draft was circulated among staff at NSBA, but also shared with select members of the Education and Justice Departments for their input. The final version was sent to President Biden — without the authorization of the NSBA Board of Directors, it should be noted — who then ordered the Attorney General of the United States to address the group’s concerns. Oh, and by the way, the President of the NSBA, Viola Garcia, then found herself nominated to a federal board which sets policy for student performance. How about that?

Clearly there needs to be some housecleaning at NSBA, as this fiasco is likely to seriously disrupt the operations of this agency. But it also seems obvious that the Biden Administration, especially the Education and Justice Departments, are due for some investigatory reckoning very soon, though that probably won’t come for another year. If it is true that Secretary Cardona himself proposed that the Patriot Act be used to silence dissenters from Critical Race Theory or gender identification obsessions, then he needs to go. If people close to Attorney General Garland participated in this brazen abuse of government power, they too should be directed to the unemployment office. And Mr. Garland himself should strongly consider whether he truly has the wisdom or courage to serve as our nation’s top lawman during these highly divisive times.

– JVW

128 Responses to “Looks Like It Was Biden’s Education Secretary Who Proposed the “Parents as Terrorists” Idea to the NSBA”

  1. What a charlie foxtrot.

    There shouldn’t even be a federal Department of Education. It was created in 1980 as a break off from Health, Education, and Welfare, created in 1953.

    Somehow, Americans were educated for centuries prior to that, without any federal government involvement.

    The whole idea of federalism is that the federal government does only what the states cannot do themselves. States can manage education on their own.

    norcal (d4ed1d)

  2. this kinda sounds like an abuse of federal power, but i’m just waiting to hear from the usual suspects (Nic, AJ_Liberty, Time123) how we’re just getting sucked in by right wing hysteria so then i can feel more comfortable with it

    JF (e1156d)

  3. To this point no protester is claiming that they cannot lodge complaints or freely attend school board meetings open to the public. Probably the only ones chilled at this point are the bullies that probably understand that they did go too far….in person or on social media. I have no problem with authorities looking at the line…and investigating. It’s a good reminder that if states are ineffective at protecting rights, the federal government offers another avenue. Let’s hope that it doesn’t come to that….and people can start behaving more civilly….
    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 10/10/2021 @ 10:25 pm

    JF (e1156d)

  4. should be held accountable

    I wonder who’s going to do that

    frosty (f27e97)

  5. I guess if it’s one thing the radical neomarxists and establishment neoliberals can agree on, it’s that parents should shut up and let (left-wing) teachers brainwash their kids in peace:

    Calvin Quick (he/him)
    @CalvinQuick01
    Reminder that the primary “stakeholders” (ugh) in schools are not parents. The active participants in the formal education system are students and teachers.

    The overrepresentation of parent voices in public discourse to the exclusion of students and teachers is actively harmful.
    12:58 PM · Jan 11, 2022·Twitter for Android

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  6. Good grief.
    Biden was supposed to be the least liberal among all the candidates, which is sounding more like saying that Tyrion was the tallest dwarf in the room.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  7. @JF@2 I’d love to give you my opinion, though I don’t know why someone else’s opinion would help you be more sure of your own, but I can’t find a link to the text of Cardona’s reported solicitation. Do you happen to have one?

    Nic (896fdf)

  8. A left-wing activist Secretary of Education contacted executives at NSBA to suggest they draft the notorious letter as a pretext for the Justice Department to get involved.

    How Ken Clawson of him.

    Yes sireee, breaker-breaker one-nine, Ol’Joey’s team be takin’ us back to the 1970’s fer-sure, fer-sure. Do the SOTU speech in your leisure suit, Joe– and be sure ol’ Polyester Pelosi shows up in her hot pants.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  9. the President of the NSBA, Viola Garcia, then found herself nominated to a federal board

    And a good thing too, because I can tel you that if the president of any organization I was a trustee of did that without consulting the Board, she’d be out on her ass so fast it would make her ass spin.

    Did they fire her?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. If it is true that Secretary Cardona himself proposed that the Patriot Act be used to silence dissenters from Critical Race Theory or gender identification obsessions, then he needs to go.

    No, he needs to be charged with crimes under the Civil Rights Act, using color of authority to interfere with people’s civil rights. It makes no difference if they are burning crosses on lawns or if they are using the Patriot Act.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. . . . but I can’t find a link to the text of Cardona’s reported solicitation. Do you happen to have one?

    Nic, check out this link from the Parents Defending Education site. It includes information about the origins of the NSBA’s involvement in this and the board’s pique that the letter was sent without their approval. The key statement is from an email exchange between two board members, Kristi Swett and Marnie Maldonado, in which Ms. Sweet writes the following:

    Hi Marnie

    I would love to talk to you about the letter when we are all together this weekend.

    At the time, no, I didn’t think the letter fell under an emergency situation, it certainly was not characterized that way when Chip [Slaven, the interim Exec. Director at the time] told the officers he was writing a letter to provide information to the White House, from a request by Secretary Cordona [sic].

    It could be that Mr. Slaven is a liar and blowhard, certainly, but I think it is more likely that he’s telling the truth and that Mr. Cardona really did initiate this whole process.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  12. @JVW@11 Thanks JVW. I did find that one, but the key part “a request by Secretary Cordona” doesn’t tell me what that actually means. I can think of several ways it could either be appropriate or inappropriate request and unless we know how the request actually came about and was phrased, it isn’t really possible to tell if it was an appropriate request or an inappropriate one.

    Frex, if they had been having a discussion about concerns the NSBA actually had and Cordona had said that they couldn’t really help without the NSBA going through the official process and providing a letter with information, that might be an appropriate request.

    Or Cordona could’ve said something along the lines of them hearing it was a problem, if it was an actual problem then the NSBA should send them a letter and info, which could go either way.

    Or he could have said that they were looking at investigating parents for threats and could the NSBA send over any relevant information, which would’ve probably been inappropriate.

    That kind of request it was makes a difference in whether or not it was an appropriate one.

    Nic (896fdf)

  13. Mitch McConnell will step in for you republicans and have you targeted as domestic terrorists for thinking differently.

    mg (8cbc69)

  14. @3, JF, I stand by my comment. I’ve not heard of any parents dragged in by the FBI or disuaded from attending school board meetings because of threats of prosecution…or investigation. Part of this is, if you go to a public meeting, don’t be a blithering idiot….and both sides need to avoid using social media to maliciously go after the other. I get that people want to advocate their position….and should be able to do that….but they should understand when it turns from attacking a position, to attacking the person. That’s why I challenge turning every debate into a 5-alarm fire where the fate of society holds in the balance. I had acquaintances flipping out about CRT who didn’t have the foggiest idea of what it actually was…and no patience to go read up on it. How does that happen…and is it good for rational discourse?

    I also agree with Nic that it’s difficult to conclude from the email what specifically Cordona actually did…..at least not conclude that he needs to be fired or forced to resign. I don’t support the CRT pushers….because in most cases, the broader points don’t seem age appropriate to me. K-12 needs to focus on the 3 R’s…of which social justice ain’t one of them. Maybe in late high school…most likely left for college…where students pick and choose their majors and courses…and pay the tuition. The problem is that lots of things are getting lumped in with CRT….some of what may just have to do with accepting people who are different in some way. The devil is literally in the details…and parents should be able to discuss this with teachers…or if necessary the principal. The problem is that some people like to create fires everywhere because it generates clicks, tweets, and eyeballs. At some point toxic ideology will make it impossible to live with one another…and too few want to think critically about that….

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  15. We know that the behavior of some of the parents groups was *at best* threatening. Some parents were arrested by local police for actually breaking the law. Threats, refusing the let people leave, groups chasing speakers out of the parking lot yelling insults were all common.

    When I look at what Garland actually directed, as opposed to how it’s been misrepresented, it was to set up communication channels so that the school boards knew how to report actions they were concerned were illegal. There’s nothing wrong with that.

    There is a concern that it could be a fig leaf for inappropriate actions such as politically motivated prosecution or using the FBI to stifle speech. But the announcement was what? 5or 6 months ago? Since then none of the more troubling concerns happened.

    What’s the problem here? What did the DOJ do that you feel isn’t appropriate?

    Time123 (97b33b)

  16. I had acquaintances flipping out about CRT who didn’t have the foggiest idea of what it actually was

    “Everything bad that happened in history is the fault of white people.”

    Anastasia Higgenbotham’s “Not My Idea” is being used in public school curriculums now. From Conor Freidersdorf’s article in The Atlantic on Higgenbotham’s lunatic perception:

    She argues that, at the earliest possible age, white kids should be taught to identify whiteness as the root of racial injustice so that they can reject the pervasive racism that they would otherwise embody.

    There’s really no point in indulging this motte-and-bailey nonsense that “CRT isn’t being taught!” and “Even if it is, you don’t even know what it is!” followed by, “Well, you’re just in denial about America’s racist history!” It most certainly IS being taught, and anyone who claims otherwise is being fundamentally dishonest.

    Like I’ve said, I don’t mind that white leftists hate themselves for thinking they were born with the original sin of their skin color, and would prefer they simply neck themselves for that sin rather than demand that every other white person have their ocean-sized pools of self-loathing. But so-called “conservatives” certainly shouldn’t be enabling this nonsense, nor act shocked that parents might take serious offense to this type of ideology that institutes blood libel on an entire race. It’s the same “this isn’t the hill to die on!” weakness that led to Trump’s election.

    At some point toxic ideology will make it impossible to live with one another…and too few want to think critically about that….

    Why on God’s green earth would I possibly want to live or co-exist with people who want to brainwash my kids in to thinking that “whiteness” is the root of all evil, and anyone with white skin is responsible for sustaining systemic racism? These aren’t people who can maintain a stable, high-trust society, and they’ve literally admitted that they parents to butt out of their children’s education. There’s no co-existing with people who think like this.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  17. Some parents …

    What’s the problem here? What did the DOJ do that you feel isn’t appropriate?

    Time123 (97b33b) — 1/12/2022 @ 5:05 am

    Get involved at all. This isn’t a DOJ/FBI issue. Can you describe the jurisdiction here?

    The same people who will say parents should go to the local school board to deal with things that are being pushed by large nationwide activist groups also want to engage the FBI as soon as it looks like people are listening.

    frosty (f27e97)

  18. At some point toxic ideology will make it impossible to live with one another … and too few want to think critically about that …

    Why on God’s green earth would I possibly want to live or co-exist …

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/12/2022 @ 5:24 am

    I don’t know the source, or truthfulness, but there’s a story that when JFK was asked why he kept J. Edgar he said that it was better having him in the tent p1ssing out than outside the tent p1ssing in.

    The flip side to AJ’s sentiment is that we should think critically about letting people stay in the tent and p1ss on everything.

    frosty (f27e97)

  19. You need to do better – much better – AJ Liberty.

    Don Kedick (f125a7)

  20. @17, all I’m aware of is a direction that local offices makes sure local officials knew how to report concerns. On its face I don’t see a problem with that.

    Time123 (33cdfa)

  21. Time123 (33cdfa) — 1/12/2022 @ 6:10 am

    Do you think local officials don’t know how to contact the FBI? Did you know that most states, even the red ones with the hicks, also have state versions of the FBI. Local authorities used to have to drive into Raleigh if they needed help and it was always a version of Andy and Barney in the Big City but not anymore. Now there’s plenty of people up and down the chain and they can use telephones.

    Does it help if you imagine the FBI targeting BLM and someone like me saying that it’s just making sure local officials know how to “report concerns”? I know this is a stretch since we’ve basically got a COINTELPRO supporting BLM. But you’ve got a good imagination.

    frosty (f27e97)

  22. @21 ,I’ve made my point; Nothing actually came from he Garland memo. You seem to want to say a lot of things that avoid addressing that point so I’m going to move on. Enjoy your moral panic.

    Time123 (696f7c)

  23. “There’s no co-existing with people who think like this.”

    How many people do you think have those extreme viewpoints? Is it most Democrats, some Democrats, or a few Democrats? Is the teaching of “white responsibility” going on in most schools, some schools, or a few schools? Is this something that is going on in your local schools?

    I guess I worry about what your statement implies. What are you willing to do to not co-exist with people with odious opinions? This seems to operate against the Golden Rule.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  24. #22

    If nothing came from the Garland memo, it’s probably because people complained. Beyond the “let’s do a meeting” directive in the memo, Garland had announced:

    The Department takes these incidents seriously and is committed to using its authority and resources to discourage these threats, identify them when they occur, and prosecute them when appropriate. In the coming days, the Department will announce a series of measures designed to address the rise in criminal conduct directed toward school personnel.

    I agree that the Secretary of Education, based in the e-mail, did not necessarily order the scary, scary tone of the NSBA letter. (Guys, JVW links to it and you should look at it). But it feels like this may have been an example of what is called “astroturfing”, where the government agency gets a friendly organization to request it to take some step it wants to do. I don’t mind some scrutiny of this situaton and a little partisan yelling about it. I would not call it a moral panic to do that.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  25. Appalled, You’re right and it could be the the DOJ planned inappropriate actions but held back based on political pressure. It could also be the letter was in part window dressing for the Democrats to show their base that they were involved without actually doing anything. What we do no is that so far no one has pointed to any inappropriate actions, let alone a systemic pattern of them.

    Time123 (696f7c)

  26. #25

    Time,

    Take a look at this link:

    https://www.ktvh.com/news/helena-news/u-s-acting-attorney-for-montana-sends-letters-of-statues-to-state-law-enforcement

    It is directly linked to Garland’s missive.

    There may be others, but this is the one GOP Senators cited at the end of October when they grilled garland over the memo. And — in case JVW wants to follow up — the Senators kept referring to there being Biden White House polictical people being involved in the drafting of the initial letter. I did not bird dog that evidence.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  27. Appalled, the link points to a letter from the USA offering help and assistance if local officials feel specific laws have been broken. Local officials replied that they didn’t need any help.
    What harm occurred?

    Time123 (33cdfa)

  28. Even if there were no specific plans for the feds to go after uppity parents, why TF is it their business to get involved with these local matters in the first place.
    I remember when Scott Smith was branded a “domestic terrorist”, and then it turned out his complaints were not only completely righteous, he helped expose the school board’s own corruption. This should’ve given federal bureaucrats pause about intervening, but alas.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  29. I’ve made my point; Nothing actually came from he Garland memo. You seem to want to say a lot of things that avoid addressing that point so I’m going to move on. Enjoy your moral panic.

    Time123 (696f7c) — 1/12/2022 @ 6:42 am

    There’s no issue with local authorities needing to contact the FBI. There were a few problems but I think you can count them on one hand and the locals dealt with them.

    The purpose of the letter was to have a chilling effect on speech. We’re still talking about it because it’s something that shouldn’t have happened.

    frosty (f27e97)

  30. JVW,

    thank you for the follow up. I am not surprised that the usual suspects have doubled down or tried to dismiss any concerns.

    Please keep up the good work.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  31. What we do no is that so far no one has pointed to any inappropriate actions, let alone a systemic pattern of them.
    Time123 (696f7c) — 1/12/2022 @ 7:31 am

    what would inappropriate actions look like?

    considering the effort it took to get ahold of these emails, do you think inappropriate actions would show up on a billboard?

    which is why most of us typically take a jaundiced eye to federal meddling, especially manufactured federal meddling, and leave things to local authorities who at least limit their inappropriate actions to local jurisdictions

    and typically the burden of proof calls for the feds and their supporters to justify their heavy hand, but you’ve turned that on it’s head of course

    JF (e1156d)

  32. Time:

    1. We know the Montana letter was sent. We also know some school boards didn’t see the need to respond.

    2. We don’t know if some matters were referred to the FBI. That’s not going to be made public.

    3. This seems an invitation for schoolboards to sic the FBI on troublemakers. Human nature being what it is.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  33. @31, JF, What I’m talking about with harm would be; Investigations opened inappropriately? Any charges filed inappropriately? Any direct contact between federal authorities and protest group or citizen that were improperly predicated?

    At this point all I’ve seen is the feds encouraging local officials to let them know if federal laws have been violated. It seems like posturing to me at this point. But it could have been something nefarious that was aborted in the face of pushback. Evidence for more nefarious intent hasn’t really been provided and will be hard to show unless the Biden administration is really really stupid.

    Time123 (04046d)

  34. Appalled, I’d add a fourth; We know that no one has made any credible claims of harassment by federal officials. Or if so I haven’t seen them.

    Time123 (04046d)

  35. 23–This is a red herring. The raw numbers are irrelevant because this is being pushed in teacher/staff training, and in school curriculums. School boards that try to hide criminal behavior and push this social poison on kids DESERVE to get castigated for it, and removed. Teachers that tell white kids they benefit from “systemic racism” and assert that parents shouldn’t have a say in what their kids are taught are political apparatchiks, not teachers.

    If you don’t support this kind of ideology being pushed in the schools, but don’t have actually have the stomach to fight back against it because of your aversion to conflict of any kind, that’s fine.

    But don’t try and shame parents who are making that effort in the interests of their own children, and definitely don’t use things like the Golden Rule in a hypocritical attempt to cow them in to silence. “Do unto others” goes two ways, and if people are trying to brainwash my kids in to sharing their own self-loathing, then I’m going to treat them as a hostile entity. You may not like it, but accept it.

    Factory Working Orphan (f20932)

  36. FWO, the contention is that there is no systemic effort to make your kids hate themselves based on their race. I have kids in public school. I’m active in the school activities. My kids show me the cool stuff they’re doing. This isn’t happening where i live. I don’t know anyone that is dealing with this personally. What I do is a huge effort but Chris Ruffo and others to make this into a culture war issue for political gain. They’ve come right out and said as much.

    I’m not saying this is a zero issue. I’m saying this issue is being wildly exaggerated by people with an agenda that has nothing to do with education.

    Time123 (04046d)

  37. This

    Evidence for more nefarious intent hasn’t really been provided and will be hard to show unless the Biden administration is really really stupid.

    Time123 (04046d) — 1/12/2022 @ 8:40 am

    We know that no one has made any credible claims of harassment by federal officials. Or if so I haven’t seen them.

    Time123 (04046d) — 1/12/2022 @ 8:42 am

    is awesome. It’s a good thing the Biden admin is just really stupid and not really really stupid.

    frosty (f27e97)

  38. So you agree there isn’t evidence of harassment by federal officials or nefarious intent? Good, glad we can align on that. Where we diverge is that you appear to no need evidence to believe things.

    Time123 (04046d)

  39. @38 again, you’re putting the prudent of proof on the wrong people

    “is there evidence the memo was warranted?”
    “is there evidence federal involvement is needed”
    are questions you don’t want to ask yourself

    if you can set aside your visceral dislike of cruz for a few minutes, this is a pretty good takedown of garland on those questions:
    https://youtu.be/edk8d0mJt8o

    and that was months ago before this latest development

    JF (e1156d)

  40. *burden of proof

    JF (e1156d)

  41. JF, My 2 main points are;
    The level of federal involvement has been minimal on this issue, mostly consisting of letting local officials know how to contact the FBI if they felt federal laws were violated.
    There hasn’t been any credible claims of harm from the actions taken.

    Time123 (04046d)

  42. OT- McConnell delivers an absolutely scathing speech on Senate floor responding to Biden’s scatterbrained Atlanta rants from yesterday.

    Decode his ‘Senate speak’ and you hear what we- and the world– all know and see: Biden is now increasingly out of it. Brought to mind the backroom chatter in the days before Nixon resigned as he melted down as well.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. Time, I wish people had this level of passion for balancing the budget and proposing plausible alternatives to Obamacare. You were succinct and correct @41…..but you offer sprouts for a circle that only eats red meat.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  44. #42

    There seems to be a coordinated bad strategy involved here. It isn’t just Biden. We have his administration putting all this together, Harris bleating out her homilies, and Schumer putting his weight on all this.

    In short — are you arguing group senility on the part of the Dems?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  45. norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:02 pm

    There shouldn’t even be a federal Department of Education. It was created in 1980 as a break off from Health, Education, and Welfare, created in 1953.

    1979. Shirley Mount Hufstedler was the first Secretary of Education.

    Reagan had promised to abolish it (which only meant downgrading it from Cabinet status – it mostly dealt with dispensing money – maybe made some recommendations) but the Democrats raised such a cry about that, that it was never attempted.

    The prospect of the abolishing of the Department of Education was the lie used by Anita Hill to explain why she followed Clarence Thomas to a new job. Senator Arlen Specter (R-Penn.) pointed out that she was civil service, but she pretended not to understand.

    Somehow, Americans were educated for centuries prior to that, without any federal government involvement.

    The whole idea of federalism is that the federal government does only what the states cannot do themselves. States can manage education on their own.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  46. DCSCA, the DEMs are in a tight spot. Harris may be more coherent than Joe but she is woefully under-qualified, unlikable, and can hardly run her own VP staff….so whoever would get filled in at VP would need to bring some serious heft to the Executive. I think the Constitution precludes B. Obama or B. Clinton….which would leave which previous candidates of stature? Well, H. Clinton and John Kerry are probably the only two that jump out…Pelosi or Schumer would be horrible too…Hagel and Panetta are pretty up in age. The Democrat bench is just horrible…..Warren and Sanders are even more polarizing…..what do they do if Joe resigns or drops dead? I’m sure they’re gaming it….but I see no clear solution….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  47. @43 so what’s today’s update on your jan6 investigation?

    JF (e1156d)

  48. Somehow, Americans were educated for centuries prior to that, without any federal government involvement.

    Actually, the federal government had been doing things since about 1945 (GO Bill of Roghts) or even earlier (Freedmen’s Bureau) and it was folded into HEW in 1953. Mostly it spent money and did “research” The education stuff wasn’t really all collected in the same place within HEW until 1972.

    The whole idea of federalism is that the federal government does only what the states cannot do themselves. States can manage education on their own.

    They do actually, but, in the 1980s, the Democrats made it sound like abolishing the Department of Education would be abolishing some education.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  49. 18, frosty (f27e97) — 1/12/2022 @ 6:07 am

    there’s a story that when JFK was asked why he kept J. Edgar he said that it was better having him in the tent p1ssing out than outside the tent p1ssing in.

    It was LBJ who used that expression. I read it before any number of times.

    https://quotes.yourdictionary.com/author/quote/570850

    You don’t think JFK would talk that way?

    The quote was apparently traced back by the usual quote verifiers only to 1971, in a book review by David Halberstam of Lyndon Johnson’s memoir “The Vantage Point”, who cites it as a well known fact without giving more detail. He says the boook “is very carefully sanitized. All of the real Johnson is missing.” and then he gives this quote as one of his examples.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/31/archives/the-vantage-point-perspectives-of-the-presidency-19631969-by-lyndon.html

    This is another citation:

    https://www.quotetab.com/quote/by-lyndon-b-johnson/its-probably-better-to-have-him-inside-the-tent-pissing-out-than-outside-the-te

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  50. BTW, Trump gets some kudos for going on OAN and supporting vaccines and boosters. He also used that platform to bash DeSantis for not being upfront about getting the booster.

    “Well, I’ve taken it,” said Trump. “I’ve had the booster. Many politicians–I watched a couple of politicians be interviewed and one of the questions was, ‘Did you get the booster?’ – because they had the vaccine – and they’re answering like–in other words, the answer is ‘yes’ but they don’t want to say it. Because they’re gutless. You gotta say it – whether you had it or not. Say it. But the fact is that I think the vaccines saved tens of millions throughout the world. I’ve had absolutely no side-effects.”

    No, he didn’t name his chief rival for the 2024 nomination, but it was obvious to me.
    Trump didn’t have to limit his remarks to politicians. He could’ve also included talk-show hosts under the “gutless” column, like Tucker Carlson, who still hasn’t disclosed his vax status, but that would hurt him more with The Base, which is already irritated that he’s been recently outspoken about the vaccines.

    Trump also picked up the phone and gave an interview with NPR’s Steve Inskeep. As expected, and like with his interview with Lesley Stahl, Trump cut it short after getting angry with basic questions. Maybe John Barron should’ve made the call in Trump’s place.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  51. Oops, that was an open threat comment.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  52. Er, open thread.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  53. “so what’s today’s update on your jan6 investigation?”

    Looks like FBI was NOT involved in the Capitol riot. There’s a shocker. Still no clear explanation for why Trump fiddled for hours. How’s your rationalization of that coming?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  54. Looks like FBI was NOT involved in the Capitol riot.

    Is that what “I can’t answer that” means?

    CSPAN
    @cspan
    .
    @SenTedCruz: “Did any FBI agents or confidential informants actively participate in the events of January 6th? Yes or no?”

    FBI’s Jill Sanborn: “I can’t answer that.”

    https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1480946038643085323

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  55. @53 looks like you’ve got the right level of passion, though your direction needs some work

    that’s just what i’ve read

    JF (e1156d)

  56. Cruz reminds me of Trey do nothing Gowdy.

    mg (8cbc69)

  57. Sanborn: “Sir, I’m sure you can appreciate that I can’t go into the specifics of sources and methods,”

    Yes, and the Ray Epps conspiracy theory was quickly shot down. Next?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  58. His is a sellout creep, mg. But he still got the best of AJ’s trusted FBI.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  59. Who cares about Ray Epps?

    What statement do you have that backs up your first sentence in your 12:29?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  60. @46. Mentioned HRC a few weeks ago [you heard it here first 😉 ] Now Drudge & WSJ have picked up the scent– though it’s a RNC plant to be sure given the outlets pushing it. But a year in, this old dude isn’t cutting it and he’s being ill-served by the much younger, race-baiting subordinates on his staff.

    These angry yelling rants with incoherent babbling and crazy references to dead people is quite disturbing. Safe bet most Americans alive today believe “Bull Connor” -who died in frigging 1973– was played by Kevin Costner in some 1980s baseball movie!

    The guy’s a 50 year swamp hack; a bum– and still a senator in mindset– and in vivid mental decline. Takes a lot of incompetence to make Carter look like Lincoln. But he’s done it. But the Rs have no Reagan. [If only they believe in the science of cloning, you’d have a Ronnie 2.0 tanned rested and ready by now. 😉 ]

    Joe’s the capstone [or perhaps the tombstone] on 20th century swampy pols from an era in America when current museum mementos like the Sony Betamax, the AMC Pacer, the Polaroid SX-70 and the Pet Rock were still in their future— and Vlad was still in his 20s.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. Is there a specific quote you want me to read, Appalled? That seems to be a statement about Epps. Once again, who cares?

    AJ took the time to all-cap “NOT” when he wrote:

    Looks like FBI was NOT involved in the Capitol riot.

    Pretty emphatic, if you ask me.

    So where is the statement that backs that up? You probably know that I would prefer a statement from the FBI, but let’s see what you find.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  62. Is there a specific quote you want me to read, Appalled? That seems to be a statement about Epps. Once again, who cares?

    Trumpists care very much about shifting blame for the insurrection from Trump and his MAGA rioters over to the FBI. The committee spokesperson stated that Epps’ testified that he was not involved with the feds. Penalties for lying to Congress are serious.
    This doesn’t preclude that there were FBI undercover, embedded with Proud Boys or whoever, but there’s no evidence that undercover agents triggered them into planning for a confrontation and for violently confronting law enforcement.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  63. To me, this whole thing is “the camel’s nose.” If you let the camel’s nose into the tent, pretty soon the whole camel is there. Same with CRT, or using the FBI to threaten dissenters. It’s not just CRT.

    I hear that most districts have no intention of promoting this kind of thing, yet they get parents all up in arms anyway. But that’s true about anything. Someplace, someone is berating a school board for allowing (or not allowing) Huckleberry Finn from being assigned. They may even be loud and obstreperous. Doesn’t mean you call in the FBI absent pip bomb threats.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. there’s no evidence that undercover agents triggered them into planning for a confrontation and for violently confronting law enforcement

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/12/2022 @ 1:38 pm

    There was no evidence of the things Brennan lied about either. Until there was.

    I’m sure that if we get a whistleblower that releases evidence he’ll be branded a traitor.

    frosty (f27e97)

  65. Party of personal responsibility.

    Davethulhu (17e89a)

  66. “I like Mitch McConnell. He’s a friend.” – Squinty McStumblebum

    O.M.G. Joe:

    If you want a friend in Washington– get a dog.” – President Harry S. Truman

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  67. I’m not saying this is a zero issue. I’m saying this issue is being wildly exaggerated by people with an agenda that has nothing to do with education.

    Time123 (04046d) — 1/12/2022 @ 9:21 am

    Whether it’s being wildly exaggerated is up for debate, but there’s no question at all that this stuff is being pushed in schools. Besides the aforementioned works like “Not My Idea,” the left is pushing this idea that parents should shut up and let teachers do what they want, irrespective of whether it violates their personal values in how they’re trying to raise their own children. Hence, you have teachers bragging on social media about encouraging children to say “I pledge allegiance to the queers” and saying the American flag makes them uncomfortable, or giving extra credit for attending left-wing protests. And this isn’t a recent phenomenon–back in the mid-2000s, a guy called Jay Bennish ended up getting national attention when one of his students recorded him comparing Bush to Hitler and conservatism to Naziism, because it wasn’t “compassionate” and bunch of other leftist buzzwords of the moment.

    My wife, who’s a teacher herself, just went through training a few weeks ago with materials that pushed the “systemic racism” nonsense. There’s the guy in Indiana who exposed CRT shibboleths in training materials and curriculums.

    And of course these things are being brought to light by people with an agenda–their agenda is to expose just how deep radical leftism has insinuated itself in to ordinary school curriculums outside of academia. And this happened mainly because conservative parents were too apathetic over the last 40 years to get involved in things like school boards and PTA meetings because it had the stench of “government,” and they were supposedly “not corrupt enough” to be involved in that stuff.

    Now that these things are being exposed–thanks in large part to the pandemic and teachers simply uploading their curriculums online every day–these parents are deciding they don’t like what’s being taught, and are making their opinions known. As to the general contention by some that culture war issues are a “distraction” and something to be avoided because it supposedly divides us–what is a society, and a civilization for that matter, if it’s not defined by its culture? Culture should be the FIRST thing that conservatives battle with the left over, and with vigor, because whomever controls the culture, controls a nation’s identity, its heritage, and its future. It’s not an accident that the neomarxists have insinuated themselves so deeply in to the educational complex (their ideology is basically the status quo in academia now), and have targeted the concept of the nuclear family in particular. Their entire goal has been to alienate children from their history, their nation (by criticizing it as a “capitalist, white supremacist hegemony” in particular), and especially their parents–because if you subvert the authority of the latter, those children will then turn to teachers to guide their values. They know exactly what they’re doing, too, which is why they say things like this:

    Calvin Quick (he/him)
    @CalvinQuick01
    Reminder that the primary “stakeholders” (ugh) in schools are not parents. The active participants in the formal education system are students and teachers.

    The overrepresentation of parent voices in public discourse to the exclusion of students and teachers is actively harmful.
    12:58 PM · Jan 11, 2022·

    People who think like this are vipers. They aren’t looking to educate, they’re looking to destroy the parent/child relationship and replace it with one they’ve constructed. “Co-existing” with people like this is not an option, because we literally have views in direct opposition to each other, and there is NO chance of any sort of reconciliation. Someone like this considers themselves to already be at war with me and other parents, and has no scruples about what he’ll do to subvert that trust relationship I’m supposed to place in him.

    So if it comes down a choice of protecting my kids from this kind of twisted mindset, you better believe I’m not going to let a little thing like concerns about “civility” get in the way of that. My children are far more important than some snot-nosed Zoomer with a god complex, who thinks his teaching certificate is a license to indoctrinate them in to his ideology.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  68. Someone is going to have to update me on the new definition of Education in this context.
    The Chinese at least called it re-eductation.

    steveg (e81d76)

  69. “Co-existing” with people like this is not an option, because we literally have views in direct opposition to each other, and there is NO chance of any sort of reconciliation.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/12/2022 @ 5:10 pm

    FWO, I agree with you to a certain extent, but this kind of rhetoric strikes me as overheated. If you can’t co-exist with these people who have different views, and there is no chance of reconciliation, what are your options? Leave the country? Extermination?

    norcal (e32597)

  70. @FWO@68 The “CRT IS EVERYWHERE IN SCHOOLS!!!! THEY ARE FORCING IT ON THE CHILDREN!!” obsession is a moral panic. Curriculum is decided on a local, district by district basis and the local school boards are some of the most democratic institutions in the country since they are by locals for locals. If you are concerned about the curriculum in your local schools, run for school board.

    Parents have the right to input in their children’s education, but if they aren’t paying any attention to it, or only pay attention to it during a moral panic, they aren’t doing themselves or their child any favors. frex, the other day I mentioned that some parents didn’t want their kids learning anything about Islam and someone on here got all het-up about the idea we were teaching islam to the children. We teach about islam as part of the world history class in the unit between Greece/Rome and the middle ages, where we cover the rise and spread of the Islamic caliphate during the 7th to 15th centuries. If a parent only noticed the teacher talking about islam over zoom and hadn’t paid any attention to the surrounding units, they might get the idea that we were “teaching islam to the children” and have a panic, when what were were actually teaching was world history.

    This had never occurred to me until the last two years, because I assumed that parents were paying some kind of attention. However based on many many many phone conversations with parents over the last two years, I have reached the conclusion that many, and maybe even most, parents drop their children off at school like they drop off dry-cleaning, leave it in the morning, pick it up in the afternoon, no real idea what happened in between, just expecting it to be done and ready to go.

    (Also, since you were concerned about it, I listened to a reading of “Not my Idea” and read an Atlantic article about the author. The book is not any good, mostly not age appropriate to the target audience, and the author is disingenuous in my opinion.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  71. If you can’t co-exist with these people who have different views, and there is no chance of reconciliation, what are your options? Leave the country? Extermination?

    norcal (e32597) — 1/12/2022 @ 7:10 pm

    National divorce would be the best option.

    Here’s the thing–this goes beyond simple disagreement over political views. For a long time in my life, the VAST majority of my friends and acquaintances were left-wingers, or at least center-left. I’ve mentioned my wife has voted Democrat her whole adult life (although, to her credit, she voted for Johnson in 2016 rather than Hillary). I’ve been close with maybe two or three people, at most, who were solid, rock-ribbed conservatives. So I have no problem co-existing with people who have different political views–as long as they don’t insist on shoving their ideology down my throat.

    And that’s the rub. When someone like the guy I quoted above blatantly admits that his goal is to subvert my relationship with my kids and freeze me out of helping to guide their education, I consider that a declaration of open hostility. If conservatives think the current state of cultural affairs is a nightmare now, just wait until entitled twerps like this start getting in to leadership positions in communities, schools, and businesses in about 15-20 years.

    It happened with the Gen-Xers and Millennials, and with the horrid resiliency and high rates of mental illness among the Zoomers already, I don’t even want to know what kind of horrors people like this will gleefully visit on anyone who doesn’t give in to their every demand. Short of a 180-degree shift in national culture, it’s going to be like the Twilight Zone episode where the little kid uses his powers as leverage to threaten the adults with harm whenever they don’t conform to his every whim.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  72. National divorce would be the best option.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/12/2022 @ 7:45 pm

    I think that is wildly impractical, and would create a slew of other problems.

    norcal (d4ed1d)

  73. #73
    I see dead people

    steveg (e81d76)

  74. I think that is wildly impractical, and would create a slew of other problems.

    norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/12/2022 @ 8:00 pm

    It may be impractical, but it’s inevitable at some point. The question is simply to what degree it ends up happening.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  75. The last national divorce turned out badly.
    The country can do better, with less extremist “prescriptions”.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  76. National divorce would be the best option.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/12/2022 @ 7:45 pm

    I have an alternative proposal…personal divorce. As in, you could just divorce the United States, and move to a country more to your liking.

    Demosthenes (3fd56e)

  77. It may be impractical, but it’s inevitable at some point. The question is simply to what degree it ends up happening.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/12/2022 @ 9:10 pm

    The only way national divorce is truly inevitable is if people keep thinking, and saying, that national divorce is inevitable.

    See also: prophecy, comma, self-fulfilling.

    Demosthenes (3fd56e)

  78. The last national divorce turned out badly.
    The country can do better, with less extremist “prescriptions”.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/12/2022 @ 9:24 pm

    A national divorce is hardly extremist. The main reason the last one went pear-shaped was because a bunch of liberal Yankees didn’t want the other states to leave.

    I have an alternative proposal…personal divorce. As in, you could just divorce the United States, and move to a country more to your liking.

    Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 1/12/2022 @ 9:42 pm

    Make me.

    The only way national divorce is truly inevitable is if people keep thinking, and saying, that national divorce is inevitable.

    See also: prophecy, comma, self-fulfilling.

    Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 1/12/2022 @ 9:44 pm

    Or, you could just read a World History textbook.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  79. A national divorce is hardly extremist.
    It’s extremist. It’s why we have a Constitution, rule of law, due process, and a democratic process to resolve differences. The extremists who want to break up the country can go to Hungary or something, where maybe a good strongman is more to their liking.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  80. A timely piece from Mr. Douthat about “national divorce”. The final paragraphs…

    The United States is a vast empire of more than 330 million people in which at any given time some handful of unhinged people will be committing deadly crimes. And we are also a country with a long history of sporadic armed conflict — mob violence, labor violence, terrorism and riots — interwoven with the normal operation of our politics. If your definition of civil war implies that we are always just a few mass shootings or violent protests away from the brink, then you don’t have a definition at all: You just have a license for perpetual alarmism.

    I am very aware that I’m always the columnist making some version of this calm-down argument, sometimes to a fault. So I want to stress that the problems that undergird the civil-war hypothesis are serious, the divisions in our country are considerable and dangerous, the specific perils associated with a Trump resurgence in 2024 are entirely real.

    But there are also lots of countervailing and complicating forces, and the overall picture is genuinely complex — at least as complex, let’s say, as the informant-riddled plot against Gretchen Whitmer. And as with that conspiracy, it’s worth asking whether the people who see potential insurrection lurking everywhere are seeing a danger rising entirely on its own — or in their alarm are helping to invent it.

    Anyways, when I hear about Trumpists rumbling for civil war or a “divorce”, a la Marjorie Greene, it takes me back to the extremists in California who were so butthurt about Hillary losing that they wanted California to secede from the Union.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  81. It’s why we have a Constitution

    Why we have a “Constitution” is because the “Articles of Confederation” failed.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  82. Make the pouty, chickenshiff republicans leave. Useless, give in hacks.

    mg (8cbc69)

  83. https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/nasa-prepares-sls-moon-rockets-for-first-crewed-artemis-missions.html

    Out of Saturn’s shadow. Can’t wait to see this bird fly; 1967 redux. This is a wonderful era for the new generation of American aerospace engineers.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  84. Injustice Roberts is worse than the cellar dweller.

    mg (8cbc69)

  85. The cellar dweller you people voted for is like a contortionist doing the limbo. How low will this buffoon go? 25% approval?

    mg (8cbc69)

  86. Am waiting for one of you uni-party hacks to try and stop me from going in a store without a vax.
    Lets get ready to Rumble, comrades.

    mg (8cbc69)

  87. Not a “rumble” per se, but probably a Senfeld-Costanza slap fight:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-wont-back-mitch-mcconnell-working-relationship-with-trump-2022-1

    urbanleftbehind (680a25)

  88. Anyone find an official statement that supports AJ’s assertion?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  89. Anyways, when I hear about Trumpists rumbling for civil war or a “divorce”, a la Marjorie Greene, it takes me back to the extremists in California who were so butthurt about Hillary losing that they wanted California to secede from the Union.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/12/2022 @ 10:48 pm

    I’m not sure if you’ve been paying attention, but the media has been quite eager recently to speculate on the chances of a civil war kicking off. And it’s not like there haven’t been movements in recent years within states themselves to break off from their blue-voting counterparts, along with the typical Hollywood set complaining that they’re going to move to Canada if they don’t win elections, to say nothing of the years-long trend of people migrating to certain states based on which party controls it. They’ve basically gone in to the “trial separation” period already.

    Incompatible views on how a society should be run, and the nature of how its culture should be viewed, are inevitably going to come in to conflict, and the vast majority of the time it’s going to be in the public and cultural arena, not political violence. If the neocons and the Bush Republicans don’t have the stomach to fight a culture war, well, that’s not going to be any different than the last 30 years or so. But rather than complaining about the fact that modern conservatives are actually engaging in the conflict, and agreeing with the Democrat/DSA-leaning media and left-wing pundits that it’s nothing more than a divisive moral panic, a functional political group would figure out how to harness that frustration and energy in a way that allows them to advance their agenda, the way Reagan did after the base had finally gotten fed up with Rockefeller Republicanism.

    Instead, they’re like a Napoleonic-era general who first hesitates to put angry men in to battle who were set off by outrages from their opponent, and then after doing so calls a retreat just when they’re on the brink of shifting the tide, all because the captain riding next to him got clipped by a cannonball.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  90. The cellar dweller you people voted for is like a contortionist doing the limbo. How low will this buffoon go? 25% approval?

    mg (8cbc69) — 1/13/2022 @ 3:15 am

    To be fair, a big reason his ratings are in the tank at the moment is because he hasn’t provided payoffs to his base and hasn’t been able to ram through the Democrats’ voting bill (Obama finally stepped in to the fray and said that not passing this thing was like Jim Crow).

    Young people are increasingly frustrated with him for this reason, which is why Elizabeth Warren and the Squad have been yapping for him to unilaterally cancel all student loan debt.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  91. I’m not sure if you’ve been paying attention

    I don’t see Paul’s posts anymore, unless someone quotes him, so I don’t have to ask him this rhetorical question. Dialog with Paul is a complete waste of time, IMO.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  92. Proles who can’t afford a decent school for their kids ain’t gonna have no better luck starting a revolution or a secession. They’ll just be the cannon fodder in one started by ambitious bourgeois bandits and either end up dead or with a new boss same as the old boss. Revolution! Don’t talk to me about revolution!

    nk (1d9030)

  93. Thank you for your service, FOW, so does “depressed young DSA base voter” theory also explain the crappy Hispanic Biden approval pct (low 30s) and neck and neck with Trump (albeit at GWBs high water 43 pct) in a rematch? Instaworld is always trying to hype that observation.

    urbanleftbehind (680a25)

  94. 93, crank up the CCR, nk.

    urbanleftbehind (680a25)

  95. And that’s really what it comes down to, comrades. Prole children are being taught what prole children should be taught.

    nk (1d9030)

  96. I’m not sure if you’ve been paying attention, but the media has been quite eager recently to speculate on the chances of a civil war kicking off.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/13/2022 @ 5:12 am

    This is directly related to who’s winning. If the D’s are losing they will ramp this up but they are like the kid who threatens to take their ball home but still stands around waiting for someone to beg them to stay.

    The usual answer to this is federalism but the D’s have screwed this up.

    frosty (f27e97)

  97. I can think of no greater disaster for a country than civil war. It was bad enough last time with muzzle-loading rifles and smooth-bore cannon. Try it again with jet planes, automatic weapons and napalm.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  98. nk (1d9030) — 1/13/2022 @ 5:23 am

    404

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  99. A national divorce is hardly extremist.

    Start small. Break up California.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. The usual answer to this is federalism but the D’s have screwed this up.

    Indeed. If we have to replace the GOP, a Federalist Party might be the answer.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  101. I have an alternative proposal…personal divorce. As in, you could just divorce the United States, and move to a country more to your liking.

    The IRS does not believe in this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. Idle speculation. The Democrats succeed in nuking the filibuster, with some unexpected help from the GOP, then Manchin switches sides.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. FWO, I’m not sure who you’re angrier with, Democrats or “neocons and the Bush Republicans”. Once you strip away the moderates, there’s not a lot left over among your fellow traitors, just a ragtag band of intolerant extremists.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  104. Paul @100. It’s what I reposted in my 97.

    “Revolution”, 2′ 17, with Rod Steiger and James Coburn.

    nk (1d9030)

  105. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/13/2022 @ 7:05 am

    It is shaking out as a ragtag band of intolerant extremists people you don’t like who keep yapping about personal freedom and other such nonsense and the snappy dressing authoritarians.

    frosty (f27e97)

  106. The casual use of the word traitor should be discouraged.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  107. BTW, Kevin, I’ve always been interested in the idea splitting CA into multiple states. The 18 northern counties would be a solid-red state the size of Louisiana with a similar population as Idaho. And it’s a beautiful un-California part of the state.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  108. I plead guilty to a little bit of hyperbole and provocative language, just a little.
    There are arguments out there (like this one) that the Confederates who led the secession were traitors. A number of them were tried for it but Lincoln pardoned them, and it would’ve been interesting to see the Jefferson Davis trial. But like Robert E. Lee said, “I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  109. I agree that federalism…and foot voting….is the answer to many of the cultural issues. Obviously not everyone can leave Massachusetts for the idyllic fields of Idaho…but I suppose if it bugs you enough….

    The whole notion of splitting the country because we can’t compromise or accept, in a pluralistic society, that people will have different values and priorities is discouraging. I’m not sure how Chicago, southern California, Colorado, and Massachusetts (+ much of the rest of the east coast) yield a workable nation….and what the expectation would be for conservatives in Colorado to do…would they have to relocate? And what is the genesis for this….CRT?!! Transgender and girls sports? Immigration policy? Abortion? Seriously? Life is remarkably good for most people…..until the recent uptick, violent crime had steadily fallen over the past two decades, interest rates and inflation had been remarkably low, illegal immigration had steadily fallen, we’re rich enough for most teens to carry around a $500 computer-phone in their pocket, the stock market has steadily grown, the economy grows, and we are fighting no active wars. Why are we so unsettled?

    I’ll speculate that much of this is because the internet and social media is changing who we are. Anonymity allows people to act like idiots and bullies…without consequence. All of the checks that are present in real-life interpersonal relationships is just not there. People are living in their heads. In past generations, silly ideas like this couldn’t get out…or would sit and let a person reconsider them. Now it’s all outrage…..tell me that our enemies aren’t loving it

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  110. Kevin 104 – that would be kinda funny

    EPWJ (0fbe92)

  111. 108–I take Paul’s hyperbole for the emotionally stunted rhetoric that it is. My six-year-old is less dramatic and accusatory when I tell her she can’t have a piece of candy.

    Factory Working Orphan (c9e3fc)

  112. Paul, that map is based on economy, culture and vote. The colors are intentional.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  113. No hyperbole here: “Co-existing” with people like this is not an option, because we literally have views in direct opposition to each other, and there is NO chance of any sort of reconciliation.”
    Nope, not one bit of emotional stuntedness and drama.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  114. Yes, Paul, “traitor” is certainly the height of mature discourse. Of course, I can take comfort in the fact that my six-year-old will continue to grow and mature, while at your age, you’ll remain happily stuck.

    I mean, granted, I hate your guts just as much as you do mine, but at least I don’t need to consistently resort to ad hominem and deflection towards the other person to compensate for 30 years of political, cultural, and military failures by my particular team.

    Factory Working Orphan (c9e3fc)

  115. FWO, just to be clear I don’t hate your guts. I disagree with you frequently and we mostly talk about those areas but I don’t have any personal animus towards you. What I know about you outside of politics makes you seem like a decent sort of guy, even if we do disagree.

    Time123 (33cdfa)

  116. I mean, granted, I hate your guts just as much as you do mine…

    I don’t hate you, FWO. It’s not nice to hate the delusional, but I am intolerant of the intolerant.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  117. Paul’s just showing his support for that Brandon fellow by using the same language as he did in his speech.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  118. The main reason the last one went pear-shaped was because a bunch of liberal Yankees didn’t want the other states to leave.

    1. Led by a man born in Kentucky, and raised in the West, who was not a Yankee in any sense of the word. 2. I find it telling that you’re taking the side of slavers and human traffickers.

    Make me.

    I’m not going to make you do anything. I am merely suggesting that rather than advocating for the destruction of MY country, which YOU don’t see to love anymore — if you ever did — it might be both easier and better to remove yourself to a country more in line with your ideals. Given your pro-Confederate stance, may I suggest Nigeria? Or maybe the DRC? They don’t much like liberal Yankees there, either.

    The only way national divorce is truly inevitable is if people keep thinking, and saying, that national divorce is inevitable.

    See also: prophecy, comma, self-fulfilling.

    Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 1/12/2022 @ 9:44 pm

    Or, you could just read a World History textbook.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/12/2022 @ 9:47 pm

    I did. That’s why I’m saying what I’m saying…Mr. Calhoun…

    …at least I don’t need to consistently resort to ad hominem and deflection towards the other person to compensate for 30 years of political, cultural, and military failures by my particular team.

    Factory Working Orphan (c9e3fc) — 1/13/2022 @ 9:26 am

    Are you serious? I mean, is there a single neuron in your brain that can detect irony?

    Demosthenes (3fd56e)

  119. Homeschool laws by state.

    If you know of any State that does not allow private schools, please post it.

    nk (1d9030)

  120. And then there’s always Galt’s Gulch, Idaho.

    nk (1d9030)

  121. Life is remarkably good for most people…..until the recent uptick, violent crime had steadily fallen over the past two decades, interest rates and inflation had been remarkably low, illegal immigration had steadily fallen, we’re rich enough for most teens to carry around a $500 computer-phone in their pocket, the stock market has steadily grown, the economy grows, and we are fighting no active wars. Why are we so unsettled?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 1/13/2022 @ 8:17 am

    Whole future generations of historians are going to make their careers writing about this question. I think they will eventually see us as the national version of the couple in Aesop’s fable about the goose and its golden eggs. We have so much, yet we still want more.

    Demosthenes (3fd56e)

  122. Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 1/13/2022 @ 10:52 am

    They can write volumes on the effect of “had” on peoples opinions. It’s baffling why an increase in violent crime, inflation, and illegal immigration would unsettle people.

    frosty (f27e97)

  123. Paul’s just showing his support for that Brandon fellow by using the same language as he did in his speech.

    Your lies continue, Rob.
    I never voted for Biden, never voted for a Democrat for president, period. The last time I agreed with him was when he said Gov. Cuomo should step down. I categorically reject your brainless binary schtick that criticizing a clown like Trump means that I’m “providing assistance to the Communist left” or that I “support leftism and all its poison”. From where I stand, calling out the blatant lies that undermine our electoral system is quintessentially and traditionally conservative.
    Looking at Biden’s speech, which I never before saw or read until now, he didn’t call anyone traitors or extremists, so I don’t know what you’re talking about and I’ll take your comment as an intention to smear.
    Speaking of his mostly panned speech, there was a lot of wrong and hypocritical and unhelpful in it.

    Paul Montagu (55d04d)

  124. This was only one step in a multi-step process to punish or stop people for opposing CRT or gender redefinition or some other things school boards might be involved in, so what happened doesn’t matter all that much.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  125. Paul Montagu (55d04d) — 1/13/2022 @ 11:25 am

    Looking at Biden’s speech, which I never before saw or read until now, he didn’t call anyone traitors

    He compared opponents of his elections bill to Jefferson Davis, or said they were on the side of Jefferson Davis.

    Although more probably he meant Jeferson Davis in his capacity as a protector of Negro slavery (and therefore a racist) rather than in his capacity as a traitor.

    or extremists,

    But he did say this:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/01/11/remarks-by-president-biden-on-protecting-the-right-to-vote

    …History has never been kind to those who have sided with voter suppression over voters’ rights. And it will be even less kind for those who side with election subversion….Each of those who vote will be remembered by class after class, in the ’50s and ’60s — the 2050s and ’60s. Each one of the members of the Senate is going to be judged by history on where they stood before the vote and where they stood after the vote.

    There’s no escape….

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  126. Biden accuses SCOTUS of lacking common sense; blames the world for inflation; blames Big Meat for $5/lb., hamburger; blames Big Oil for $5.50/gal gasoline, the Grinch for empty shelves and the Easter Bunny for pink M&Ms.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)


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