Patterico's Pontifications

I sent a message to Jesse Sullivan, who is challenging incumbent JD Pritzker for governor in Illinois where I live. I told him that, as a conservative, I would like to welcome a challenge to Pritzker, but that I refuse to support any Republican who will not publicly and unambiguously disavow Trump’s lies, and urged him to do so. This news–along with Ted Cruz’s self-flagelation–leaves little room for optimism that he will. I’m afraid that any Republican who acknowledges Biden’s victory will never get elected as dog catcher, let alone governor.

Roger (17a3ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 9:22 am

I kind of like the senator from SD. Seems OK for a career politician.

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 10:10 am

In fairness, Roger, Illinois cannot be fixed, with or without a Republican governor. Republican governors in blue states are like constitutional monarchs; they have a symbolic and ceremonial role but do not affect policy. At best they can delay bad policies and they never change the political trajectory of the state. (This is true for both parties.)

mikeybates (f0864a) — 1/10/2022 @ 10:33 am

“Is he crazy or just stupid?” Trump said in the statement. “The numbers are conclusive, and the fraudulent and irregular votes are massive.

Trump doesn’t need any evidence – he’s got statistical proof he thinks. Biden used one of Trump’s arguing points to prove just the opposite.

https://www.newamericanjournal.net/2022/01/video-and-full-transcript-president-joe-biden-speaks-to-congress-on-jan-6-2022

The former president and his supporters have never been able to explain how they accept as accurate the other election results that took place on November 3rd — the elections for governor, United States Senate, the House of Representatives — elections in which they closed the gap in the House.

They challenge none of that. The President’s name was first, then we went down the line — governors, senators, House of Representatives. Somehow, those results were accurate on the same ballot, but the presidential race was flawed?

And on the same ballot, the same day, cast by the same voters.

The only difference: The former President didn’t lose those races; he just lost the one that was his own.

Trump statement:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-wwf22ajmvh1371

Does anybody really think that Biden beat Obama with the Black population in select Swing State cities, but nowhere else? That he would lose 18 out of 19 bellwether counties, and 27 out of 27 “toss up” House races, but somehow miraculously receive the most votes in American history with no coattails? That he would lose Florida, Ohio, and Iowa and win, even though it has never been done before?

There.

Trump says it can’t be true that the Republicans won all those House races but he still lost. What more evidence do you need?

AS the Wall Street Journal pointed out, they still lost in the contest for control of the House of Representatives, and the House was expected to gain Democrat seats, therefore a lot of seats were rated as tossups that weren’t – and the Republicans won them all in one projection, and not half of them.

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:19 am

Nixon won the second greatest popular vote landslide in American history in 1972, and the Democrats even gained two Senate seats.

And in Massachusetts, it was the opposite. McGovern carried Massachusetts (54%), but Republican Senator Edward Brooke was re-elected. (the “antiwar” movement was very strong in Massachusetts)

Trump is not really that stupid, or overcome so much by ego that he can’t see it. He’s using arguments he knows are wrong – they just sound difficult to rebut..

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:28 am

Time magazine says the left fortified the election.

Biden himself said he had the most extensive voter fraud operation in history.

If Trump wants to continue tilting at windmills, everyone promoting his words are pouring gasoline on it.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:33 am

@6, I don’t think you wrote what you intended to write.

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:39 am

@6, Correcting for what I assume were typo/autocorrect errors;

How many fraudulent votes have been found to date? A few dozen that benefit both candidates? When will you and the rest of teh Trumpists stop lying about the election?

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:41 am

Time,

You intentionally mischaracterize my and others remarks time and time again. You do so maliciously .

Try and restate what I wrote. Go for it.

You don’t because it puts the lie to your remarks.

NJRob (d5c117) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:15 pm

Here’s the thing: As with any bully who has power, if enough stout-hearted, principled members who hold integrity above self-promotion and gain stand together and push back against Trump, the bully’s power is weakened. And if more than enough do, he is rendered irrelevant (despite still spouting off). This whole thing is an indictment of the people that are elected to office and their lack of character when the rubber hits the road.

Dana (5395f9) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:18 pm

Biden himself said he had the most extensive voter fraud operation in history.

Do you have a link to the quote?

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:38 pm

Found it.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:39 pm

I disagree as to your terms Dana.

I feel all you are doing is picking at a scab, tearing the wound open again and again and then complaining as to why it won’t heal

If you want to move forward, do so. If you want to rehash the same old territory time and time again, do so, but don’t expect to change any minds. Instead expect further entrenched behavior and understand you are providing assistance to the Communist left.

NJRob (db4fa5) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:40 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/04/us/politics/trump-gop-jan-6.html

In the immediate aftermath of Jan. 6, Trump’s enduring appeal was not so apparent. A Pew Research poll taken a few days after the attack showed his approval rating reaching the lowest point of his presidency — just 29 percent. Senior Republicans had spent the previous four years carefully avoiding direct conflict with Trump. Now, they felt a need to denounce him.

Kevin McCarthy, the House G.O.P. leader, urged his colleagues to support a resolution to censure Trump for inciting the violence. And in a speech on Jan. 13, the day Trump was impeached for the second time, McCarthy was unambiguous about where he believed the blame fell. “The president bears responsibility for Wednesday’s attack on Congress by mob rioters,” he said.

This article does not sugest what caused it to change, but I have heard or read something that said it changed when Kevin McCaergt visited Mar-a-Lago. Kevin McCarthy tried to pretend that the meeting was decided on at the alast minute (that he was in Florida anyway) but this is said not to be so.

What leverage (fundraising? Threatening to leave and split and destroy the Republican Party) Trump had on McCarthy is not known, or not known widely.

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:43 pm

Biden made the statement while on the liberal podcast “Pod Save America.” The Oct. 24 podcast, video recording and transcript show Biden was discussing countering voter suppression rather than encouraging voter fraud.

When podcast host Dan Pfeiffer asked, “What’s your message to the folks who have not yet voted or do not yet have a plan to vote?” Biden responded:

“Republicans are doing everything they can to make it harder for people to vote. Particularly people of color to vote. So go to iwillvote.com. Secondly, we’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for President Obama’s administration before this, we have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics. What the president is trying to do is discourage people from voting by implying that their vote won’t be counted. It can’t be counted. We’re going to challenge it and all these things.’
…….
The Biden’s campaign confirmed in a statement sent to multiple media outlets that he was describing his campaign’s efforts to fight voter suppression and counter Trump’s false accusations of widespread voter fraud.

Fox News reported on Biden’s controversial statement and concluded it was likely that he misspoke. Fox concluded Biden was likely referring to his election protection program, which he’s discussed in many past interviews.
…………

Source

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:44 pm

Trump won’t let this go, and if he doesn’t nobody else will either.

The big question asked of any Republican in a contested general election will be do they support honest elections, and do they think the 2020 presidential election one was an honest one.

And if they say it wasn’t the asked or unasked question will be: How can you be trusted?

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:48 pm

we have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.

Anti-voter fraud, of course, except that what he was accusing Republicans of wasn’t voter fraud.

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:50 pm

By 2026, a past endorsement from Trump will be seen differently. I think that the feds are looking to indict him for the insurrection. I doubt he’ll be endorsing anyone from prison.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:02 pm

Republican governors in blue states are like constitutional monarchs;

The one power they have is to veto gerrymanders, which can lead to change in the future.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:04 pm

That he would lose 18 out of 19 bellwether counties, and 27 out of 27 “toss up” House races, but somehow miraculously receive the most votes in American history with no coattails?

Or, maybe, the guy at the top of the GOP ticket was such a complete assh0le that voters made an exception there?

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:07 pm

NJRob:

Trump is not going away and his complaints about a stolen election are not going away. Those complaints are the sincere cry of his delicate and battered ego. They also keep the Trump grift going. He gets psycholgical solace and the big bucks for keeping it going.

So you have to refute it or endorse it. If you are in politics, Trump isn’t going to let you have a choice. Now if Trump dwindles down to a single percentage candidate, or he’s hollaring and moaning from a jail cell or bankruptcy court, maybe you can get by without talking about it. That’s not today and likely isn’t anytime soon, if ever.

Appalled (1a17de) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:12 pm

There are things that would convince me that Trump was right. Such as Karl Rove and Nate Silver agreeing with him. Since I did not count the votes myself, all I have to go on is the unlikelihood that a multi-state conspiracy to rig the vote would remain secret for very long, if it could be accomplished at all.

If it was just a matter of crooked votes in Chicago, or padding the votes out in a huge state like California (no reason to do so) then maybe. But the claim that Trump lost in 2020 due to this is just as likely as his narrow win in 2016 was due to crooked counters.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:12 pm

NJRob, you seem to be endorsing the idea that the election was fraudulent. Which is a lie.

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:17 pm

I was reading an interview in the NY Times Magazine with Neal Stephenson, and one of the things he talked about is “why do we believe what we believe?” He was quoting from a book HE was reading (Barbara Shapiro, “A Culture of Fact”) that talked about methods of belief, and broke them down to four types (edited here for brevity):

1. The method of tenacity, which means you decide what you’re going to believe and you stick to it regardless of logic or evidence.

2. The method of authority, where you agree with other people that you’re all going to believe what some authority figure tells you to believe.

3. The a priori method, and the idea is, let’s be reasonable and try to come up with ways to believe things that sound reasonable to us. Which sounds great, but if it’s not grounded in any fact-checking methodology, then you end up just agreeing to believe things by consensus — which may be totally wrong.

4. The fourth method is the scientific method. It basically consists of accepting the fact that you might be wrong, and since you might be wrong, you need some way for judging the truth of statements and changing your mind when you’ve got solid evidence to the contrary.

He goes on to point out that the science method is rare today, and while the other 3 go back to antiquity, it is relatively new, going back less than 500 years.

You see this here, when people attack “Science” because it can change its “mind” while their method of Truth (1, 2 or even 3) has no such need or weakness.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:22 pm

Kevin, that’s really interesting. I wonder how it meshes with research on what parts of the brain fire first in decision making. I’ve seen research that the emotional portion fires first and then the structures associated rational thought come in after the fact.
Wish I had more time to respond
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032808/

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:25 pm

“Pod Save America”

I can imagine voters who would not care for this title at all. Fortunately for Biden, they don’t care for him either.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:25 pm

A slow moving night of the long knives. Clensing of never trumpets from the republican party continues.

asset (a90a36) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:33 pm

Sickness? Wouldn’t get too bogged down in the specifics of the in-fighting and battle language as the light sabers of populism and change flash, sparks fly, and the GOP purges its past and clears out the dead wood. It’s going to take a few years. The Birchers were wackos back in the day; Goldwater advocated nuking Vietnam, Reagan claimed trees produce more air pollution than cars- Nixon really was a crook; Ford was an accident and Jimma was weak; we’re still waiting for Bush’s peace dividend, Dubya to find the WMD, the Cheney-type neocons put out to pasture– and for OJ to catch the real killer. The leadership of the D’s is encrusted w/barnacles as well. Pass the bill to see what’s in it crap; the Steny, Chuck, Nancy & ol’Joe show… 10 years from now, when a fresh generation w/near mid-21st century perspectives takes root, things will balance out and this whole era will be viewed as an overdue course correction. The domestic stuff will settle out in time. But as other nations adapt, change and strengthen, the U.S. will continue to fester within clinging to old ideas and this entrenched party leadership; increasingly mirroring the decline of Britain 125 years ago as the dominant world leader. And that’s going to be a hard pill for what’s left of middle class America to swallow.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:52 pm

A slow moving night of the long knives. Clensing of never trumpets from the republican party continues.

The self-Godwining of the Trump movement continues.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:54 pm

moaning from a jail cell or bankruptcy court

Embrace the power of “AND”

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:56 pm

So what does Karl Rove, the most expert election guru the GOP has, think of Trump’s claims? He spoke out on the anniversary of the insurrection:

Longtime Republican strategist Karl Rove called on members of the GOP to more forcefully condemn the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol by a mob of former President Trump’s supporters.

“To move beyond Jan. 6, 2021, we must put country ahead of party,” Rove wrote in an op-ed published in The Wall Street Journal on the one-year anniversary of the event. “For Democrats, that means resisting their leadership’s petty habit of aggravating partisan fault lines by indiscriminately condemning all who came to Washington that day.”

Many Republicans in Congress have downplayed the significance of the attack, while others have condemned the violence carried out by the rioters. Few have blamed Trump directly for inciting the mob.

If you’ve lost Karl Rove, you’ve lost the argument entirely.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:02 pm

I think that the feds are looking to indict him for the insurrection. I doubt he’ll be endorsing anyone from prison.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:02 pm

Walls. closing. in.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:04 pm

A slow moving night of the long knives. Clensing of never trumpets from the republican party continues.

The tail no longer wags the dog. The wise ones figured that out years ago and bailed out.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:04 pm

Bush-era neoconner Rove is part of the problem.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:06 pm

From the full WSJ [possible paywall] article, Rove asks:

So, on this anniversary, here’s a simple thought experiment: What if the other side had done it? What if in early January 2017, Democrats similarly attired and armed had stormed the Capitol and attempted to keep Congress from receiving the Electoral College results for the 2016 presidential election?

What if Democrats claimed that Donald Trump’s razor-thin victories in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin resulted from extensive voter fraud and should be rejected, despite having failed to establish in a single court that extensive fraud had actually occurred?

What if some of these Democrats breached the Capitol defenses and threatened violence against the Republican speaker, Paul Ryan, and Republican Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell ?

What if they insisted that in his role as Senate president then-Vice President Joe Biden had sole authority to seat Hillary Clinton’s electors from any contested states and thereby hand her the presidency?

If this happened, would some of my fellow Republicans have accepted it as merely a protest? Would they have called patriots those charged with violent acts against our country, its laws and Constitution? Would they have accepted such extralegal means to change the outcome of a presidential election?

No they would not. I’m certain of that.

He also dismisses the fraud claims in passing, but he is particularly upset with those who claim the insurrection was justified, or that it was Antifa or some such false flag operation.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:09 pm

Trump says it can’t be true that the Republicans won all those House races but he still lost. What more evidence do you need?

What evidence?

Time magazine says the left fortified the election.
Biden himself said he had the most extensive voter fraud operation in history.

You didn’t reference which TIME article, but I’m guessing it’s the that which basically showed Democrats legally working to get more voters to vote, with an alarmist title and 10,000 words of benign.
Your comment about Biden is misleading.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:18 pm

Rounds only became crazy or stupid for rejecting the Big Lie. How funny. It’s the people who fall for the Big Lie who are crazy or stupid. What kind of bizarro world are Trumpsters living in?

Nothing’s as amusing as watching a cult leader flail when he senses that the cult is dwindling.

Colin Powell was right. Trump is a national disgrace.

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:18 pm

Noted Communist (and former GOP presidential candidate) said it well

Mike Rounds speaks truth knowing that our Republic depends upon it. Republicans like Govs Hutchinson, Baker & Hogan; Sens McConnell, Thune & Johnson; Bush & Cheney; plus 60+ courts and even the right-leaning Wall Street Journal editorial page agree: Joe Biden won the election.

https://twitter.com/mittromney/status/1480617074343006212?s=21

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:20 pm

Rounds is not up for reelection until 2026. If this “torpedoes his career”, the whole Republican Party is at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

nk (1d9030) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:21 pm

If you want to move forward, do so. If you want to rehash the same old territory time and time again, do so, but don’t expect to change any minds.

Trump is the one picking and festering at this wound, Rob. He could’ve shut up about Rounds, but instead kept on lying about the election. The only reason the Rounds story is newsworthy is because pretty much everyone expected Trump to throw a tantrum about it, and whaddya know, it happened.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:22 pm

@36, Without the context it’s misleading enough to count as a lie of omission.

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:23 pm

Biden himself said he had the most extensive voter fraud operation in history.

No binders full of women?

nk (1d9030) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:23 pm

I’m happy to move on. We should start by Trump congratulating Biden for winning the presidential election and apologizing for his lies about it. I think that would be a great first step.

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:24 pm

A federal judge in Washington, DC, is questioning former President Donald Trump’s actions during his speech on January 6, 2021, as he considers for the first time whether Trump is immune from liability related to his supporters attacking the US Capitol.

During a court hearing Monday, Judge Amit Mehta pointed out repeatedly that Trump on January 6 asked the crowd to march to the Capitol, but that he didn’t speak up for two hours asking people to stop the violence.

“The words are hard to walk back,” Mehta said. “You have an almost two-hour window where the President does not say, ‘Stop, get out of the Capitol. This is not what I wanted you to do.'”
“What do I do about the fact the President didn’t denounce the conduct immediately … and sent a tweet that arguably exacerbated things?” the judge asked. “Isn’t that, from a plausibility standpoint, that the President plausibly agreed with the conduct of the people inside the Capitol that day?”
………
(Trump’s lawyer, Jesse Binnall) also argued that Trump encouraged the crowd to act “peacefully and patriotically.”

“You would have me ignore what [Trump] said in its entirety?” Mehta asked minutes into the hearing. The judge pointed to a Supreme Court case related to the Johnson and Nixon administrations that established the parameters of presidential immunity.
……….
“To say that a speech before Congress is the equivalent to a campaign trail stump speech” doesn’t appear to be what the Supreme Court had ruled on the boundaries of presidential immunity, Mehta said.
………

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:37 pm

(Re: #43)

…at an event near any remaining statues or iconography of Grover Cleveland.

urbanleftbehind (05e625) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:58 pm

It is sad about Senator Rounds losing his wife of more than forty years, last November, two years after she was diagnosed with cancer.

It makes me respect him even more, seeing him make a principled stand at what must be a difficult time for him.

Jim Miller (edcec1) — 1/10/2022 @ 3:14 pm

I’m happy to move on. We should start by Trump congratulating Biden for winning the presidential election and apologizing for his lies about it. I think that would be a great first step.

Time123 (9f42ee) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:24 pm

In other words; I’ve got demands of the other team and if they comply I’ll have new demands.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/10/2022 @ 3:35 pm

Trump is a pimp who knows his hard-luck stable is going to stick with him because they have nowhere else to go. If the GOP wants to climb out of the red light district, it needs to stand some cold showers.

nk (1d9030) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:01 pm

In other words; I’ve got demands of the other team and if they comply I’ll have new demands.

Sounds just like Putin vis-à-vis Ukraine.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:02 pm

@47, it was a reply to Robs plea to stop talking about Trump’s big lie. I wanted to illustrate that the GOP are the ones pushing the issue and haven’t even done the most basic part of moving on. Did you really not understand that?

Time123 (33cdfa) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:02 pm

It’s academic anyway. Neither Trump nor the army of resentful anti-American lickspittles that defend him are emotionally capable of it. But they can sure support the grifters. Have done your part to ensure ~~Lin Wood can buy a boat~~ help president trump Fight?

Time123 (33cdfa) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:05 pm

“The former president’s remarks came a day after Rounds said during an interview on ABC’s “This Week” that the 2020 election was, indeed, fair”

it must be wonderful having the media calling the plays for you

JF (e1156d) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:09 pm

In other words; I’ve got demands of the other team and if they comply I’ll have new demands.

That’s a dodgy interpretation. If Trump conceded the election and apologized for lying about it, the issue would be dead. There’d be no more point in talking about it, and GOP members would not have to fret about facing retribution Trump and his base for the “disloyalty” of public pointing out the obvious, that Biden won.
Instead, Trump can’t shut up about the “stolen” election and I doubt he ever will. If I’m wrong, then Time can straighten me out.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:11 pm

Paul, you understand it pretty clearly. Frosty probably did also. He’s smart, just…

Time123 (33cdfa) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:13 pm

I’m out for the night. I’m violating my New Years resolution here.

Time123 (33cdfa) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:14 pm

none of the usual suspects applauding Rounds would vote for him

JF (e1156d) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:14 pm

Kevin McCarthy came up with the “move on” meme when he used it to remove Liz Cheney from the chairmanship of the House Republican Conference. It definitely does not include “Let Trump whine, we have a country to govern!” let alone “Shut up, loser, you lost, live with it!”. It’s “Be nice to Donnie so we can keep our jobs!”.

nk (1d9030) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:15 pm

@37. It’s the people who fall for the Big Lie who are crazy or stupid.

Oh, like supply-siders; trickle-downers… you know: Reaganomics.

Or “The Five O’Clock Follies”… Or “I am not a crook”… Or “We’ll be greeted as liberators…”

Or “You can keep your doctor…” Or “Kabul is not Saigon and the Taliban certainly aren’t the North Vietnamese…”

Storm the castle. 😉

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:17 pm

On that ABC program, Senator Rounds made this practical point:

He then warned that Mr Trump’s falsehoods only sought to undermine his own supporters’ confidence in US elections, while Democrats and independents who do not believe him continue to vote and participate in the system as normal.

“[I]f we simply look back and tell our people don’t vote because there’s cheating going on, then we’re going to put ourselves in a huge disadvantage,” said the senator. “[L]et’s focus on what it takes to win those elections. We can do that. But we have to let people know that they can — they can believe and they can have confidence that those elections are fair.”

Jim Miller (edcec1) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:17 pm

Kevin McCarthy came up with the “move on” meme when he used it to remove Liz Cheney from the chairmanship of the House Republican Conference.

Hell, the Wyoming GOP itself scuttled her dinghy– and there’s only one rep for the whole frigging state.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:19 pm

JF, for me it would depend on the alternative. In a primary against Amash I’d vote for Amash. In a general against Mayor Pete I’d vote for Rounds. But I don’t need to generally support a candidate to think they’re correct about a specific issue.

Time123 (33cdfa) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:23 pm

Colin Powell was right. Trump is a national disgrace.

And when Colin Powell was wrong– and knew he was wrong– he got Americans killed in Iraq and charged the hundreds of millions of dollars blown on the war to Uncle Sam’s credit card. And that is a national disgrace. Bought or sold any Iraq War Bonds lately? 😉

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:27 pm

This whole thing is an indictment of the people that are elected to office and their lack of character when the rubber hits the road.

And who back and runs them all for office in a system they’ve rigged from the ground up for decades?
The two major Establishment parties that few and fewer voters are affiliated with.

…and Putin smiled.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:33 pm

Good for Rounds. We need more people to point out that the emperor has no clothes. It’s fun watching the emperor throw a tantrum.

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/10/2022 @ 4:49 pm

JF,

You are correct.

It is hilarious reading some on here lose their stuff and wax on and on about how it’s Trump’s fault they can’t stop talking about him.

And it reiterates my point that they only like Republicans when they bash other Republicans. Just like the media does.

NJRob (fce08e) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:16 pm

The gop is and has been a farce since old man booosh. Not enough bad can happen to the stupid party. Such a disgrace. From lifelong hacks like McConnell to posers like Don, these nincompoops continue to waste our money on bull schiff.

mg (8cbc69) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:23 pm

There’s Mike Rounds, who still voted with Trump 90% of the time, but has enough common sense to see that there’s no evidence of “massive fraud” and was willing to withstand a Trump spoon-banging storm.
A group that is still engaging in nutty pro-Trump conspiracy theories is Russian state media, going as far as exploiting Ashli Babbitt’s mom. This is the dishonest propaganda that Putin wants his subjects to hear, and his personally media organ used Americans to further that disinformation.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:25 pm

I feel all you are doing is picking at a scab, tearing the wound open again and again and then complaining as to why it won’t heal

Some scabs pick themselves.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:26 pm

If Trump were a bull, the picadors would never leave the field — it would be too much fun tossing the barbs in and watching him stomp and bellow.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:31 pm

It makes me respect him even more, seeing him make a principled stand at what must be a difficult time for him.

Trump probably has no idea what it is to lose someone after 40 years together. He prefers wives who leave when he tells them to. The “love of his life” is himself.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:34 pm

The never budget republican voters voted for the cellar dweller in record numbers. Proud Boys, that bunch.

mg (8cbc69) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:37 pm

It is hilarious reading some on here lose their stuff and wax on and on about how it’s Trump’s fault they can’t stop talking about him.

Rob, Trump is the de facto leader of the GOP, and he just disowned a US Senator because of “disloyalty”. Trump is the one who lied just today that “the numbers are conclusive, and the fraudulent and irregular votes are massive”.
It sounds like what you want all of us good soldiers do is just ignore the crazy man in Mar-A-Lago and pretend that he’s not spinning election-year fantasies. How does excusing blatant lies by the putative leader of my party do one thing to help it going forward?

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:38 pm

none of the usual suspects applauding Rounds would vote for him

Nor would they live in South Dakota, which is a requirement.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:38 pm

When is someone going to tell Trump that America is not laughing WITH him, but AT him?

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:39 pm

Republican voters are concentrated on bad man orange and his past. Same as the democrats. The future has already passed by the republican party. Moronic game plan fellas. How about a budget?

mg (8cbc69) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:42 pm

none of the usual suspects applauding Rounds would vote for him

I saw that the first time, and I wondered where it came from, and I’d hate to tell you what I guessed. Mike Rounds is one of the most conservative persons in the Senate. And he was a rock-ribbed conservative before that, not a New York poseur lying about being one. Most of us would vote for him.

nk (1d9030) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:44 pm

We need more people to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

Which is why Calendar Boy Vlad goes shirtless.

… and Putin smiled.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:52 pm

The primaries for republicans will be a fight between the wokiest karenistas of the stupid party and the 1st and 2nd amendment conservatives. Epic.

mg (8cbc69) — 1/10/2022 @ 5:54 pm

@ 69. If Trump were a bull, the picadors would never leave the field — it would be too much fun tossing the barbs in and watching him stomp and bellow.

Trump IS bull, Kevin. And he gets great ratings with it. 😉

“He’s saying that life is bullsh-t, and it is, so what are you screaming about?” – Max Schumacher [William Holden] ‘Network’ 1976

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 6:00 pm

I wonder if the Senator kept quiet while his wife was fighting cancer because he didn’t want Trump to talk trash about her.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 6:14 pm

You can be a 1st and 2nd amendment “conservative” without liking a scumbag.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 6:14 pm

Most of us would vote for him.

I think he’s talking about the media people. None of them would vote for any Republican. What’s the point? Especially as you have to live in South Dakota to vote in their senate elections.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 6:16 pm

# 40 Paul Montagu’s “tantrum” reminds me of the eerie similarities between Trump and Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes. They both live, partly, in fantasy worlds, they are obsessed with television, they play badly with other children, and so on, and so on.

I have found examples in the strips that express Trump’s world view, better than he does himself.

Unfortunately, there is no one who can send him to bed, after his endless misbehavior.

Jim Miller (edcec1) — 1/10/2022 @ 6:53 pm

No republican has had more consecutive years of mindless misbehavior than no budget Mitch.

mg (8cbc69) — 1/10/2022 @ 7:01 pm

21. Appalled (1a17de) — 1/10/2022 @ 1:12 pm

Trump is not going away and his complaints about a stolen election are not going away. Those complaints are the sincere cry of his delicate and battered ego. They also keep the Trump grift going. He gets psycholgical solace and the big bucks for keeping it going.

I don;t think his ego is a factor, on the sense that he can’t believe he lost, but it might be that he likes to address favorable crowds and gets some satisfaction in trying to see of he can maintain a lie as the truth.

37. norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:18 pm

Nothing’s as amusing as watching a cult leader flail when he senses that the cult is dwindling.

It is not dwindling. It’s about stable, and has recovered from its low in January, 2021.

The diffeence between a favorable and unfavorable opinion of Trump was 19 points against Trump a year ago, but now it is only 9 points against Trump. Of course, this is an overall view of him.

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/10/2022 @ 7:22 pm

According to Trump, “…those are the only ones, the weak, who will break away…” Actually, the weak are the ones still kissing your ring, dumbass.

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/10/2022 @ 7:38 pm

When is someone going to tell Trump that America is not laughing WITH him, but AT him?

If he’s alive, ol’Joe just might give it a try around 12:15 PM, EST on January 20, 2025, when The Donald is sworn in.

Again. 😉

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 7:38 pm

@86. The traditional act of “kissing of the ring” — which in the Catholic tradition is worn in by bishops, cardinals and the pope — has historically symbolized respect for the office.

The Ex-POTUS Trump is Presbyterian.

Thank God.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 7:44 pm

If you want to move forward, do so. If you want to rehash the same old territory time and time again, do so, but don’t expect to change any minds. Instead expect further entrenched behavior and understand you are providing assistance to the Communist left.

NJRob (db4fa5) — 1/10/2022 @ 12:40 pm

Principled observers like Dana are no more use to the far left than they are to the far right. Extremists need opposing extremists to justify their own extremism. You and your tribal ilk are the best friends the “Communist” left could ask for, as are they yours.

lurker (59504c) — 1/10/2022 @ 8:06 pm

He torpedoed nothing

Trump will be well off the stage by the time he is up for re-election

steveg (e81d76) — 1/10/2022 @ 8:22 pm

How come this site seems to be the only one where I see any signficant mention of these GOP slapfights? I read more than my share of political articles, and this never even popped up in my aggregate news feeds. This isn’t even being boosted on CNN, which has every incentive right now to highlight GOP in-fighting to counter the one going on in their own party. Heck, it’s not even on the front page of The Hill, which reported the story that Patterico linked.

I suspect the nation at large doesn’t really care anymore what Trump says about some random GOP senator, much less the GOP base or GOP voters in that senator’s state. There’s a lot more going on in the culture wars, the economy, and the COVID wars that’s taking up everyone’s attention right now.

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/10/2022 @ 8:59 pm

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/10/2022 @ 8:59 pm

CNN’s target audience isn’t NeverTrump. Most of the nation also isn’t NeverTrump and won’t be until it’s clearer that Trump will run again.

The argument that Trump is the leader of the GOP and Something Must Be Done doesn’t really resonate with many people. So, most of this isn’t above the fold material.

It resonates here because there are a number of people who do think Something Must Be Done. What, other than debate the amount of flagellation that some unspecified people should do, isn’t really clear. But don’t misunderstand. Someone needs to confess, recant, and petition for acts of contrition.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/10/2022 @ 10:28 pm

@91. He’s like JR Ewing; an established principle character who keeps the story conflict alive– and who’ll deliver a zinger when necessary.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/10/2022 @ 10:52 pm

Apparently, one of Patterico’s favorite LA Times columnists, Michael Hiltzig, is being called out for a column in which he mocked the Covid dead, or at least those who had been antivaxx before they contracted Covid and died.

At this point, though, it is only the FoxNews side of things that is upset. From everyone else, crickets.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 10:59 pm

The democrats stole the election for biden ;but legally. 2016 trump wins wisconsin by 22,000 votes 2020 trump loses wisconsin by 20,000 votes. What was the difference? In 2016 green party (jill stein) got 38,000 votes. In 2020 democrat used laws that republican legislature put in to keep libertarian party off ballot (they failed) to keep green party off ballot. Same in arizona and georgia.

asset (367f38) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:09 pm

If he’s alive, ol’Joe just might give it a try around 12:15 PM, EST on January 20, 2025, when The Donald is sworn in.

Joe will speak at Trump’s funeral.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:11 pm

How come this site seems to be the only one where I see any signficant mention of these GOP slapfights?

Try bringing it up at Ace or Insty. As for the far left sites, I doubt you go there much.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:13 pm

The only reason the Rounds story is newsworthy is because pretty much everyone expected Trump to throw a tantrum about it, and whaddya know, it happened.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:22 pm

That seems like the opposite of newsworthy. Isn’t the unexpected what’s supposed to be newsworthy. What’s the old chestnut about man bites dog.

Stop the presses! A lot of people have coffee with breakfast but some people have orange juice!

frosty (f27e97) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:34 pm

@97. A lot of the far left sites are busy with D infighting. Like wondering what happened to medicare for all now that D’a are in power. Or pointing out that Yang is an establishment stooge.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:37 pm

Not much infighting at du. If you were not a clintonista they asked you to leave or be kicked out. Jackpine radicals all hate du.

asset (367f38) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:41 pm

https://www.bostonherald.com/2022/01/10/battenfeld-the-remaking-of-the-massachusetts-republican-party/
Not a chance in hell. Ma. elections are predetermined. Like mayor woooooo, construction conglomerates gave her a deal she couldn’t refuse.

mg (8cbc69) — 1/11/2022 @ 4:27 am

An imposter, a cheap quack.
Principled. lmao.

mg (8cbc69) — 1/11/2022 @ 4:32 am

At this point, though, it is only the FoxNews side of things that is upset. From everyone else, crickets.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 10:59 pm

Probably because establishment stooges like Hiltzik tend to save their fire for people who aren’t on the other side in his fellow Very Important People class. But it’s not like he isn’t saying anything that the Branch Covidians haven’t been expressing for the last few months.

Expect a binary in the short term where these types either reveal how much they enjoy watching people who don’t get the shots die, and others thanking “my family for their love and support” after they catch COVID despite getting multiple injections of the Magic Coof Juice, and wondering how they caught it despite following all the prescribed CDC rituals.

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:09 am

If he’s alive, ol’Joe just might give it a try around 12:15 PM, EST on January 20, 2025, when The Donald is sworn in.

Joe will speak at Trump’s funeral.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/10/2022 @ 11:11 pm

It would have be a Melania or lover caused/ induced COD. Anything brought on by comorbidities will get the fastest and best of medical attention.

urbanleftbehind (e9cd09) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:35 am

101, was the Boston mayor once a Woo girl?

Also my shout out to Bob Safety, Full House was a little to saccharine, though realistic for the Marina part of SF, for me

urbanleftbehind (e9cd09) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:45 am

*Saget, who did the narration of scenes as old Ted Mosby.

urbanleftbehind (e9cd09) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:46 am

The only reason the Rounds story is newsworthy is because pretty much everyone expected Trump to throw a tantrum about it, and whaddya know, it happened.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/10/2022 @ 2:22 pm

It may be the news networks that are interested in noting it.

It is sort of news because, while nobody much expects Trump to recant, there is hope that maybe he won’t keep on pushing back against people who contradict him. Maybe he won’t do it. (the effects of his statements, though, are pverestimated)

This will stop when and if enough elections are lost because of it (except that people who support his statements can’t be the only ones who win Republican nominations.)

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:09 am

“How come this site seems to be the only one where I see any signficant mention of these GOP slapfights?”

So the takeaway isn’t why is the leader of the GOP not able to be truthful and deal in reality…but why does Patterico keep pointing it out? It’s almost like Patterico thinks it’s important or something….

AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:15 am

That seems like the opposite of newsworthy. Isn’t the unexpected what’s supposed to be newsworthy. What’s the old chestnut about man bites dog.

Every time the leader of the GOP pipes up, it’s newsworthy.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:32 am

“Orange yapper snaps at Senator’s ankle”?

nk (1d9030) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:35 am

Every time the leader of the GOP pipes up, it’s newsworthy.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:32 am

A large part of him being “the leader of the GOP” involves him living rent free in your head. FWO’s point is valid. I consume a decent amount of news each day and this wasn’t on my radar. I only noticed it because it was mentioned here.

For that matter, how does a sitting US senator get “slapped down” by someone who doesn’t hold office? What does that even mean? Oh wait,

nearly every politician (except Liz Cheney) is frightened by it

Frightened? Trump issued what can best be described as a strongly worded letter. You’d think US senators were made of stronger stuff. If that frightens them maybe that’s a problem all by itself.

Thankfully we’ve got Liz.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:11 am

# 111

Frightened? Trump issued what can best be described as a strongly worded letter. You’d think US senators were made of stronger stuff. If that frightens them maybe that’s a problem all by itself.

Why yes, all of that is true. Yet, here we are. Let’s see if the SD GOP censures Rounds, or finds some way to express displeasure.

Appalled (1a17de) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:41 am

A large part of him being “the leader of the GOP” involves him living rent free in your head.

False, frosty, really false. But thanks again for falsely presuming what’s in my head.
I’ll assume your “slapped down” question was directed to Dana as they were her words. My word was “disowned”, which is accurate. Quote: “Even though his election will not be coming up for 5 years, I will never endorse this jerk again.”

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:46 am

And it reiterates my point that they only like Republicans when they bash other Republicans. Just like the media does.

So, it’s only Trump who gets to bash other Republicans?
Oh, and it’s also proper to bash other Republicans if they criticize Trump.

But suggesting that the GOP should not be so abjectly servile to a pathological narcissist is the sort of “bashing other Republicans” that cannot be tolerated.

Radegunda (d6796c) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:12 am

Paul, the usual suspects act as if any GOP criticism…but more so any criticism of Trump….is betrayal and is providing aid and comfort to the enemy…you know….Democrats. So blog sites that lean right must only criticize Biden, Harris, AOC, etc…..and should simply ignore the bull in the china shop…because….it’s not at all worrisome to them that Trump remains the going-away favorite for 2024, has a lock grip on many state party leadership positions, continues to grossly distort the 2020 election narrative so that the majority of the GOP keep repeating the lie, ignores his inactivity during the Jan 6th riot, and tries to drown out any opposition. They want Patterico to become RedState…then their mission will be complete.

AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:16 am

“So, it’s only Trump who gets to bash other Republicans?”

This is the cognitive dissonance that gets missed….the irony is too much

AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:19 am

Why yes, all of that is true. Yet, here we are. Let’s see if the SD GOP censures Rounds, or finds some way to express displeasure.

Appalled (1a17de) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:41 am

Let’s imagine that Trump discovers some heretofore unknown virtue and remains silent. That he gives some brave, competent, and strong leader room to work without the hindrances of a Trump press statement.

Who is that person and what do they say? Do you imagine that if Trump were silent somehow the credibility of the GOPe would magically be restored and people would believe them?

People don’t so much believe what Trump says as he says what they want to believe. Enough people understand that when an R is being signal boosted by D’s or the media that it’s a sham. They also understand that someone is being attacked by all of the usual suspects it is suspicious. This is what happens when credibility is set on fire with kerosene. That’s not going away just because you can get someone like Trump to stop running his yapper.

It might be more productive to stop focusing on why people believe Trump and figure out why they don’t believe the people pushed by D/nevertrump.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:36 am

but more so any criticism of Trump….is betrayal and is providing aid and comfort to the enemy…you know….Democrats

Not just Democrats, AJ. Going by Rob’s rank hyperbole, criticizing Trump’s obvious lies means you’re “providing assistance to the Communist left,” whatever that means. Anyways, that kind of hyperpartisan binary thinking provides assistance to ridiculous, IMO.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:40 am

How long until elected officials start leaving the GOP in droves?

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:57 am

But thanks again for falsely presuming what’s in my head.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:46 am

Oh, gosh, we can’t really have that now can we.

“So, it’s only Trump who gets to bash other Republicans?”

This is the cognitive dissonance that gets missed….the irony is too much

AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:19 am

I think we’ve determined that the good people get to criticize and the bad people get to be criticized.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:58 am

Not just Democrats, AJ. Going by Rob’s rank hyperbole, criticizing Trump’s obvious lies means you’re “providing assistance to the Communist left,” whatever that means. Anyways, that kind of hyperpartisan binary thinking provides assistance to ridiculous, IMO.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:40 am

Don’t forget to leave room for Jim’s red-baiting.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:00 am

How long until elected officials start leaving the GOP in droves?

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:57 am

You think some of these neocon grifting sociopaths might leave office and become lobbyists? Or talking heads on MSNBC?

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:05 am

frosty:

What will GOP people do if Trump sits down and shuts up? The one thing they will do is stop talking about 2020 and propounding the stolen election myth. That blather does not help them.

As for the rest — well, I’m sure DiSantis will say one thing, Nikki Haley another thing, and Ted Cruz will cower in a corner and chew on his beard. We’re not going back to Jeb! Or even Marco!

Appalled (1a17de) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:06 am

I think we’ve determined that the good people get to criticize and the bad people get to be criticized.

Actually, we, or some of us, have noted the irony of purporting to be offended that a Republican would “bash other Republicans” and, at the same time, reflexively defending a former president who is famous –and in some quarters celebrated — for trashing any Republican who doesn’t show him unconditional personal fealty.

It’s rather like the Trump fanatics who would say “Stop lying about Trump!” when they’re perfectly comfortable with Trump’s habitual lying about anyone and everything.

Some of us have determined that the rules should be the same for everyone. Other people have decided that there should be a broad, all-purpose Trump exemption — as if it’s somehow un-American to judge him by the standards applied to other people.

Radegunda (f3439a) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:21 am

Appalled (1a17de) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:06 am

What you suggest can be done without Trump shutting up. All of the GOP could simply stop talking about 2020, ignore Trump, and ignore questions about Trump correct?

This new leader of the GOP; why don’t they standup and simply say that 2020 is in the rear-view mirror and they’re looking forward?

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:22 am

#125

I do not have a suggestion for the GOP. Not my job, man. I just won’t vote for them as long as Trump and his 2020 grievances are front and center in the campaign.

And, as for your suggestion — well, it’s been tried. It’s not working. We’re having a couple of primaries for statewide offices in Georgia simply because the Trump led faithful are not letting go.

Appalled (1a17de) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:28 am

It’s rather like the Trump fanatics who would say “Stop lying about Trump!” when they’re perfectly comfortable with Trump’s habitual lying about anyone and everything.

Some of us have determined that the rules should be the same for everyone. Other people have decided that there should be a broad, all-purpose Trump exemption — as if it’s somehow un-American to judge him by the standards applied to other people.

Radegunda (f3439a) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:21 am

I keep hearing about the rule about presuming what’s in other people’s head. Also the rule about putting things in quotes that aren’t literal quotes. Are those some of the rules that should be the same for everyone?

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:31 am

Also the rule about putting things in quotes that aren’t literal quotes.

Ah, accusing me of dishonesty! I have literally seen people post “Stop lying about Trump.” Not today, not yesterday, but I have certainly seen it.

And who keeps telling you about “the rule about presuming what’s in other people’s head”?

Do you have an explanation for why Trump should get endless indulgence to bash other Republicans, but as soon as any Republican says that Trump did something he shouldn’t have done, it’s a sin to be condemned?

Radegunda (f3439a) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:50 am

Joe will speak at Trump’s funeral.

More likely, Ol’Motormouth Joe will speak at his own funeral… as a hologram.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:55 am

Radegunda, it’s funny how frosty keeps inventing these “rules” and then slaps them on other commenters, using the dodgiest interpretations of plain English. I’d say the practice is intellectually dishonest, but there’s nothing intellectual about this dishonesty.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:07 am

So many people putting words in my mouth but don’t say anything to counter what I actually said.

Funny how that works.

Keep on pretending to be a principled Republican while in reality doing your utmost to support leftism and all its poison.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:41 am

Trump lost. Your pretenses otherwise are a lie.

Time123 (121447) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:52 am

And who keeps telling you about “the rule about presuming what’s in other people’s head”?

Is there some other name for these things that Paul keeps complaining about? Should I not call them rules? Maybe Paul’s Preferences? Should I not notice that you and Paul and others are doing what you’re complaining other people are doing? I’m good without the meta-comments but if we’re going to have them everyone should get to play along.

Do you have an explanation for why Trump should get endless indulgence to bash other Republicans, but as soon as any Republican says that Trump did something he shouldn’t have done, it’s a sin to be condemned?

Radegunda (f3439a) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:50 am

I don’t think he should. I never said he should. I don’t think anyone in this thread has said he should. This is a hyperbolic version of events. I’m more than happy to hear criticisms of Trump and criticisms of those criticisms and so forth. That seems to be the purpose of these comment threads after all. If someone is going on about how Trump just won’t shut up it’s a fair to notice that a press statement isn’t something anyone should be afraid of. Speaking in terms of “a sin to be condemned” is a bit over the top and it’s fair to notice that too.

I understand that some people come here for the virtue signaling and the bias confirmation. And it can be upsetting to have that interfered with. I also keep hearing about some sort of comment filter that you can use to protect yourself from bad thoughts. Have you tried that?

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:56 am

So many people putting words in my mouth but don’t say anything to counter what I actually said.

I quoted you directly, Rob. You accused a front-pager of “providing assistance to the Communist left,” for “picking at a scab, tearing the wound open again and again and then complaining as to why it won’t heal”. That “picking” and “tearing” was about a US Senator who stated the obvious and was then disowned by the leader of our GOP, and here you are again with your smear that I “support leftism”.
When did calling out a blatant lie, a damaging lie that undermines our electoral system, somehow be construed as “support leftism” and “providing assistance to the Communist left”? When did you morph from country over party over person to person over party over country? Obviously more than 3½ years ago when you lied about me being socialist for the “crime” of opposing a narcissistic clown.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 11:04 am

Paul,

your virtue signaling aside, you did no such thing. As frosty and Orphan mentioned, this horrific act is so irrelevant that even the left didn’t bother to pick up on it. Trump isn’t in a position of power. Biden and his corrupt government are the ones running the show. They are the ones that have called American citizens who protest indoctrination terrorists. They are the ones who have tried to turn our nation into a 2 citizen state where rights are granted by the government and can change on a whim.

But you just want to keep distracting. It makes sense. You can’t argue about any actual policies so you just pound the table instead.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/11/2022 @ 11:31 am

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 11:04 am

What’s a front-pager? I’m a bit nervous about googling that.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 11:43 am

Because of the Modern GOP democratic Norms and election integrity have become a policy issue.

Also, I’m not calling all protestors ‘terrorists’. Just the ones that assuaged police officers and seized control of the US capital to delay the certification of the election in support a President Trump. The larger number that didn’t do that are just protestors. Peaceful protest is a right, it’s violence that is unacceptable.

Time123 (6f9608) — 1/11/2022 @ 11:48 am

your virtue signaling aside, you did no such thing. As frosty and Orphan mentioned, this horrific act is so irrelevant that even the left didn’t bother to pick up on it.

Bullsh-t. Mainstream sites picked it up, Rob, as well as sites from the left and right. Maybe you and FWO should check where you’re getting your “news” from.
You were quoted directly. You can wriggle all you want, but your quotes and your smears are there for anyone to see.
Oh, and it’s simply false to claim that Trump isn’t in a “position of power”. Please name one Republican who carries more influence in this GOP. Power has been conferred on him by all the kowtowing done by his loyal followers. Kevin McCarthy didn’t travel to Mar-A-Lago after the impeachment trial to fit in a round of golf, he came to grovel in order to keep the door open for Speaker, for saying on 1/7 that Trump was responsible for the 1/6 insurrection.
The polls that I linked to (which you obviously didn’t read) has Trump at 55% for the 2024 nominee, with DeSantis a distant 2nd at 11%. Care to guess where Trump was this time six or seven years ago? We can only hope his stranglehold over the GOP goes away, for all our sakes, but all you’re doing is enabling the control he has over this party by tut-tutting and carping when others call out his lies.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:26 pm

NJRob,

Table pounding, much more important than complete loss of freedoms

EPWJ (0fbe92) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:32 pm

@72 Trump is the de facto leader of the GOP

if trump keels over and dies tomorrow, i’m sure he’ll still be the de facto leader cuz it takes time to come up with these rationales to help democrats

JF (e1156d) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:36 pm

if trump keels over and dies tomorrow, i’m sure he’ll still be the de facto leader cuz it takes time to come up with these rationales to help democrats

If you have to resort to a hypothetical, then you don’t have much of an argument, do you, JF.
BTW, there is some additional confirmed electoral fraud in Arizona and Michigan, just not the kind the Trumpists have been scouring for.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:46 pm

Paul,

Before he ran for President – it was a right of passage for Republican Candidates to visit the Trump Tower and get his blessing, including Ronald Ragan, Bush Sr, Jr et al.

EPWJ (0fbe92) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:48 pm

Reagan…

EPWJ (0fbe92) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:48 pm

Before he ran for President – it was a right [sic] of passage for Republican Candidates to visit the Trump Tower and get his blessing, including Ronald Ragan, Bush Sr, Jr et al.

Democrats, too, EPWJ. Don’t forget the Democrats. Before 2012, he gave more to Donkey Party candidates than their GOP counterparts.

“Well, I know her [Hillary] and she’d make a good president or good vice president.”
–Donald J. Trump, Bipartisan Political Donor, 2008

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 1:04 pm

@144 reagan was a democrat and union leader for years

you know this, but the dumb dig at trump is too tempting

JF (e1156d) — 1/11/2022 @ 1:12 pm

Please name one Republican who carries more influence in this GOP.

Maybe Kevin McCarthy, Steve Scalise, Mitch McConnell, or John Thune. You know, people in a leadership position in the party that vote and influence votes and other politicians on a regular basis. I’m thinking a sitting congressman has more power and influence than someone limited to issuing press releases.

Kevin McCarthy didn’t travel to Mar-A-Lago after the impeachment trial to fit in a round of golf, he came to grovel in order to keep the door open for Speaker, for saying on 1/7 that Trump was responsible for the 1/6 insurrection.

Thanks again for presuming what’s in McCarthy’s head.

The polls that I linked to (which you obviously didn’t read) has Trump at 55% for the 2024 nominee,

These would be polls of voters? This might be a clue as to the actual problem.

We can only hope his stranglehold over the GOP goes away

How does this stranglehold work exactly? Do these politicians have to do what he says because of a magic voodoo doll? It’s not like they’re making decisions based on feedback they’re getting from their constituents right?

but all you’re doing is enabling the control he has over this party by tut-tutting and carping when others call out his lies.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:26 pm

If only I had this power. This “enabling the control he has over this party” isn’t a thing. This control you’re talking about is called voters.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 1:42 pm

@144 reagan was a democrat and union leader for years

And, as a union leader, he supported HUAC’s investigations of Hollywood and was treated like dirt by the socialists after that. My dad voted 4 times for FDR, but he never voted again for a Democrat after Truman screwed the pooch in Korea.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 1:50 pm

if trump keels over and dies tomorrow..

…the number of Trumpists in the party will diminish overnight. A year later, no one will have been one, not even you.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 1:52 pm

OT: Can the Democrats change the Senate rules with the vote from a non-Senator? The VP doesn’t count in a quorum, so she should not be able to vote to change the rules. If she can, the 50 GOP members can block a vote by refusing to come to the floor.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 1:54 pm

#149 — I have wondered about that, myself. Since Manchin continues to be a big no, this is an interesting speculation more than anything else.

Appalled (1a17de) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:21 pm

Maybe Kevin McCarthy, Steve Scalise, Mitch McConnell, or John Thune.

McCarthy clearly takes orders from Trump, not the other way around, and Scalise also made a pilgrimage to a certain Florida resort. McConnell has departed from Trump more than the other three, particularly with the $1 trillion spending package but, other that that, Trump still controls the GOP agenda.

Thanks again for presuming what’s in McCarthy’s head.

Even the Wall Street Journal reported that McCarthy went to Mar-A-Lago to “mend fences with Trump”. The only “broken fence” at that time was McCarthy’s speech, where he laid responsibility for the 1/6 insurrection on Trump. I thought you were aware of that history, frosty. My mistake.
I don’t really don’t understand why you’re denying Trump’s major influence on the GOP and his control over it, including the RNC.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:25 pm

Are there people who actually believe that what Trump says doesn’t matter because he doesn’t hold office?

If so, said people do not understand that politics is downstream of culture, and that Trump’s cult influences culture. “Cult” and “culture” stem from the same cognate for a reason.

norcal (e32597) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:26 pm

“Trump isn’t in a position of power. Biden and his corrupt government are the ones running the show.”

Yikes. Do you really believe that Trump is not driving what is going on in the GOP right now?! Trump is exactly the reason that his elected critics are retiring, are being primaried, or are being pilloried at right-wing sites. We continue to hear about GOP challenges to 2020 election results precisely because of Trump. The “Big Lie” persists and propagates because of Trump. The January 6th investigation has been throttled and impeded because Trump doesn’t want his actions objectively scrutinized…the GOP has become the rabbit hole and ostrich hole center.

The GOP opposes Biden….but does it stand for any constructive policy? This policy void is precisely what Trump has brought to the party — slogans, conspiracies, and an unwavering self-interest in himself. After having 20-something candidates run for President in 2016, why is there no one suddenly interested in the position? People keep running interference…intimidating…sidetracking….excusing…and rationalizing. It seems to have filtered down to Patterico comments as well….

AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:28 pm

@153 Well-stated, AJ. The aggrieved Trumpers are either incapable of grasping the situation, or just refuse to because they’re so dug in that changing course now would be akin to a crisis of faith.

I voted for Trump in 2016, but was not so proud that I could not admit error after the fact.

norcal (e32597) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:34 pm

And, I suspect that some people are so in love with arguing a position that they continue to argue it even after realizing they might be wrong.

norcal (e32597) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:36 pm

And, as a union leader, he [Reagan] supported HUAC’s investigations of Hollywood [by ratting to Hoover] and was treated [deservedly so] like dirt by the socialists [aka Americans] after that.

And ‘rightly’ so:

‘The House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), a committee of the U.S. House of Representatives, investigated allegations of communist activity in the U.S. during the early years of the Cold War (1945-91). Established in 1938, the committee wielded its subpoena power as a weapon and called citizens to testify in high-profile hearings before Congress. This intimidating atmosphere often produced dramatic but questionable revelations about Communists infiltrating American institutions and subversive actions by well-known citizens. HUAC’s controversial tactics contributed to the fear, distrust and repression that existed during the anticommunist hysteria of the 1950s. By the late 1950s and early 1960s, HUAC’s influence was in decline, and in 1969 it was renamed the Committee on Internal Security. Although it ceased issuing subpoenas that year, its operations continued until 1975.’

https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/huac

Reaganoptics!

Too bad the ‘internal security’ boys missed [or was it facilitated] the black bag ops of The Big Dick’s Plumbers… and the “Watergate” they opened. 😉

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:40 pm

The GOP opposes Biden….but does it stand for any constructive policy?’

Hell yes. The scuttling of the modern ideological conservative movement for starts; the end of the tail wagging the dog; the purging of neocons and tail hairs like Charen, Will, Kristol, French, Goldberg and lesser, assorted irrelevants- like the Cheneys. It’s awesome, magnificent, long overdue— and ‘glorious.’

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/11/2022 @ 2:52 pm

@146. Please name one Republican who carries more influence in this GOP.

After the ship sinks, oil slicks and flotsam hang around for a time… Moon President Newt Gingrich realized the ‘In case of emergency, break glass and shout ‘Reagan’ stopped working in his aborted 2012 POTUS run…

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sci-fi-cold-open/n13372

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/11/2022 @ 3:10 pm

So many people putting words in my mouth but don’t say anything to counter what I actually said.

Funny how that works.

Keep on pretending to be a principled Republican while in reality doing your utmost to support leftism and all its poison.

NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:41 am

When your purportedly pro-GOP comments resemble Twitter parody, you’re the one “support[ing] leftism and all its poison.”

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 4:41 pm

So many on here love to attack Trump and those that have moved on while ignoring that Biden today yet again called his political opponent s slaveholders and demanded an end to the filibuster so he can pass his terroristic agenda.

Carry on.

NJRob (660f77) — 1/11/2022 @ 4:52 pm

What ~~NJRob~~ people need(s) to realize is that Trump shattered the whole left-right calculation. These days, it’s not just policies that need to be weighed. No. Kiss-my-ring corruption and eroding trust in elections must also be considered.

Look, the bad policies of the left can be overturned in subsequent elections, but the flagrant flouting of election results causes serious and reverberating long-term damage.

norcal (e32597) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:03 pm

If I’m not mistaken, “norcal” is short for “Northern California.” And do I have to spell out what goes on in “Northern California?” So go peddle your San Francisco hippie free love pothead leftism someplace else, Mr. “Northern California.”

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:27 pm

Maybe you and FWO should check where you’re getting your “news” from.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 12:26 pm

I have a normal Yahoo news feed that I read, you overwrought drama queen. Funny thing is that most of the stuff that pops up in there is Twitchy-type clickbait from HuffPo.

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:29 pm

Stay warm, NJRob. I hear it’s down in the mid-teens in New Jersey.

It was 75 here today in SoCal.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:55 pm

Today was probably the coldest day (coldest high) in New York City since January 31, 2019, but how bad it is depends upon the wind.

NYC missed most of the snow last week.

Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:36 pm

So go peddle your San Francisco hippie free love pothead leftism someplace else, Mr. “Northern California.”

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 5:27 pm

I am. In Reno. 😆

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:36 pm

@148. This sentiment almost word for word was post in a thread prior to the election. Then the contingent condition was on Trump losing the election.

frosty (f27e97) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:02 pm

It was 75 here today in SoCal.

Oh, you poor people! And you don’t have any water, either, I heard. No wonder you’re all so worried about global warming.

Up here in Chicago it’s a warmish 33 now but it was a more seasonable 6 at sunrise. And we have Lake Michigan and more rivers than I can name.

nk (1d9030) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:05 pm

Up here in Chicago it’s a warmish 33 now but it was a more seasonable 6 at sunrise. And we have Lake Michigan and more rivers than I can name.

nk (1d9030) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:05 pm

That sounds enticing, nk, but I’ve heard that Chicago is so much lovelier in the summertime. Maybe I’ll get there one of these days. My boycott expired when Jussie Smollett was convicted.

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/11/2022 @ 7:11 pm

I am. In Reno. 😆

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/11/2022 @ 6:36 pm

Isn’t that where the leftist nevertrumps go to shoot a man just to watch him die?

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:46 pm

I have a normal Yahoo news feed that I read, you overwrought drama queen.

Ooh, touchy.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:13 pm

Ooh, touchy.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:13 pm

Coming from someone who has the same level of maturity as my six-year-old, I’ll take that as a compliment.

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:23 pm

From the guy with such a low substance-to-rant ratio, you’re welcome.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:28 pm

@172. Hold on, when you said the Rounds-Trump contretemps didn’t even show up on your news feed, you meant Yahoo? It was on the front page of my Yahoo feed.

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:32 pm

From the guy with such a low substance-to-rant ratio, you’re welcome.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:28 pm

Hey, if the decades of failure by my side resulted in my party getting snatched out of my hands by a carnival barker upstart, I’d be resentful, too.

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:34 pm

@172. Hold on, when you said the Rounds-Trump contretemps didn’t even show up on your news feed, you meant Yahoo? It was on the front page of my Yahoo feed.

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:32 pm

And? It wasn’t on mine. What’s your point?

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:35 pm

And? It wasn’t on mine. What’s your point?

That is the point.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:41 pm

That is the point.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:41 pm

What, that his feed was different than mine? Again, so what?

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:44 pm

@156: The Hollywood blacklists of the 1950s were absolutely deserved. These people were willing agents of Stalin in the 1930s 1nd 40s, and operated on orders from the Kremlin. If they had been Nazi agents during the same period, no one would bat an eye. But being agents of good ol’ Uncle Joe, who just wants good things for the working man (like so many fellow travelers here to cave them cover), these apologists for the murderous Stalin are treated like some kind of heroes. They should have been deported to the USSR.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:22 pm

Isn’t that where the leftist nevertrumps go to shoot a man just to watch him die?

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 8:46 pm

Why, you take that back! Lefty nevertrumps abhor guns!

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:22 pm

But it is good to know that there is no longer a Hollywood blacklist. As along as you conform to the new dogmas, that is.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:24 pm

It was 75 here today in SoCal.

How’s that composting going, comrade?

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:25 pm

What, that his feed was different than mine? Again, so what?

Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 1/11/2022 @ 9:44 pm

So we’re supposed to pretend we forgot what your original point was, and ignore that this contradicts it?

No thank you.

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:54 pm

Why, you take that back! Lefty nevertrumps abhor guns!

norcal (d4ed1d) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:22 pm

You obviously haven’t seen the pizzeria where they keep the arsenal.

I bet you also believe Vince Foster killed himself and Joe Biden won the 2020 election. Wake up, sheeple!

lurker (59504c) — 1/11/2022 @ 10:57 pm

We complain about congress now. But think about it: Pete Seeger for instance was sentenced to a year in jail simply for refusing to answer whether or not he was a member of the communist party. That’s a stunning abuse of power, isn’t it? (his sentence was later overturned.) Wikipedia says he had to let the fed govt know anytime he left NY.

IMO hindsight is 20/20. at a time when ww2 was fresher, and Russia had just helped defeat Naziism, and there were civil rights abuses going on at home, it was probably easier to be interested in what communism had to offer.

Seeger later apologized for some of his views, and even wrote an anti-Stalin song:

I’m singing about old Joe, cruel Joe,
He ruled with an iron hand
He put an end to the dreams
Of so many in every land
He had a chance to make
A brand new start for the human race
Instead he set it back
Right in the same nasty place

I got the Big Joe Blues
(Keep your mouth shut or you will die fast)
I got the Big Joe Blues
(Do this job, no questions asked)
I got the Big Joe Blues.

JRH (bdcb40) — 1/11/2022 @ 11:04 pm

How’s that composting going, comrade?

Not doing it. Everything goes into the trash.

Rip Murdock (9ff85d) — 1/11/2022 @ 11:51 pm

1/10/2022

GOP Politician Torpedoes Own Career By Uttering Clear and Undeniably True Thing

186 Responses to “GOP Politician Torpedoes Own Career By Uttering Clear and Undeniably True Thing”

Favorite Sites

Links

Patterico Sells Out