Yet More Evidence of the Planning for the Coming Coup
Donald Trump and his associates are systematically reshaping the Republican Party, working to install hand-picked loyalists across federal and state governments and destroy those he feels have been disloyal, sources close to the former president tell Axios.
Why it matters: If most or all of Trump’s candidates win, he will go into the 2024 election cycle with far more people willing to do his bidding who run the elections in key states.
. . . .
One common thread with many of the candidates he’s backed so far: They all support his efforts to overturn Joe Biden’s victory.
Trump-backed Georgia gubernatorial candidate David Perdue — who is challenging Gov. Brian Kemp in the GOP primary — told Axios’ Emma Hurt on Wednesday that he wouldn’t have signed the certification of the state’s 2020 election results if he’d been governor.
You could eliminate every voter ID law in the country. You could provide free transportation to the polls for every voter, and a mailbox on every corner for those who want to vote by mail. If the people in power have the ability to simply reject the people’s vote, none of it means *anything*. This is why I keep saying the Democrats and their big important voting law are totally missing the point.
Democrats are completely missing the point and failing in a duty to address this. What Trump attempted is appalling and the ongoing enabling by the GOP is appalling. We really needed more patriotic and competent government and we’re not getting it.
Time123 (914b8b) — 12/10/2021 @ 8:32 amAlso, I don’t know how anyone that cares about our country can look at the Medows plan to steal the election and not be alarmed.
Time123 (914b8b) — 12/10/2021 @ 8:42 amWe’ve been repeatedly told that we should stop talking about Trump, that we need to let go of the past and move on, and that continuing to talk about him just evidences our obsession with him or something. But the fact remains: by his machinations, Trump remains a potential threat to the rule of law and our democracy by intentionally working to get critical players in place so that he can, through hook or crook, retake the White House. Given his stranglehold over the Republican Party as well as his sizable war chest for 2024, we absolutely need to talk about him, we need to expose him, we need to make sure no one is lulled into a sense of peace because he currently doesn’t hold office. There is so much strategically going on behind the scenes that set the stage for his return that if we ignore him and what he is doing, it will once againt put our nation in peril. There is absolutely no excuse to be caught off guard by him.
Dana (174549) — 12/10/2021 @ 9:23 amThis is why the Electoral Count Act could use some updating, and it’s why the GOP probably won’t get on board with amending said act, not if there’s a potential loophole to overthrow an election.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 12/10/2021 @ 9:48 amsources close to the former president tell Axios.
christopher steele, and who else?
bullschiff
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 9:48 amR.I.P. Al Unser, 82.
The last lap; the final pit stop; ridin’ higher than ever.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/10/2021 @ 9:53 amrip Mike Nesmith
mg (8cbc69) — 12/10/2021 @ 9:56 amYou do know that they are going to spin up outrage over bogeyman Trump for the next 3 years?
steveg (e81d76) — 12/10/2021 @ 10:32 amAre we really going to do this for three more years?
At the end of year two I’m going to start thinking Trump permanently scarred some peoples psyche.
I take it you feel that if the Democratic party were to do or say something different right now, that would stop Trump’s planning on rigging the next election, and Republicans are not required to help out. What would that be exactly?
We are a nation addicted to obsession over small things. Smollett and fluctuating gas prices are to many people a greater threat to the country than the possibility that 2020 was the last reasonably free election in U.S. history.
Victor (9ebafe) — 12/10/2021 @ 10:33 amThe candidates Trump supports are not “people in power”. They’re people OUT of power. How in world could these people overthrow the government?
David in Cal (5309c6) — 12/10/2021 @ 10:33 amWhat are the rules about when it is acceptable to object to electoral votes? Were John Lewis, Jim Clyburn, and Bennie Thompson (chair of the 1/6 Committee), among others, engaged in an insurrection/treason/etc. when they voted against certifying Bush’s 2004 victory in Ohio (thus overturning the election)? Same question about Jamie Raskin et al in 2017.
Should such people be in positions of authority in Congress?
mikeybates (4de15f) — 12/10/2021 @ 10:38 am@9 inflation might impact the price of fainting couches, Victor
so don’t pretend it’s a small thing
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 10:44 amYou can go to the Representative Wimpy thread to see it in action:
https://patterico.com/2021/12/09/rep-peter-meijer-talks-paying-the-price-for-disloyalty-to-trump-and-the-state-of-todays-gop/
BuDuh (4a7846) — 12/10/2021 @ 10:51 amI am more sanguine. Trumpcakes are more likely to elect Stacey Abrams in Georgia than they are to elect David Perdue. They just do not have the numbers. Not in Georgia and not in any other swing state.
In solid red states like Appalachia, the Ozarks, or the Ovine Northwest, sure, but what difference does it make there, anyway? In the purple states, they can defeat a statewide-viable non-Trump Republican by staying home or crossing over but all they’ll get is a Democrat.
nk (1d9030) — 12/10/2021 @ 10:57 amSmollett and fluctuating gas prices are to many people a greater threat to the country than the possibility that 2020 was the last reasonably free election in U.S. history.
You left out homophobia, transphobia, climate change, social justice, and whether lobsters and squid can feel pain.
nk (1d9030) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:00 am@13 Appalachia, the Ozarks, the Ovine Northwest, and Virginia, apparently
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:03 amIt won’t be three more years, steveg. It will be less than eleven months. November 8, 2022 to be exact. That day will be the proof of the orange pudding.
nk (1d9030) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:06 amthank heavens our fragile democracy is being protected by democrats
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/nyregion/noncitizens-voting-rights-nyc.html
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:10 amTrump is apparently corrupting that process as well, JF:
He is very sneaky.
BuDuh (4a7846) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:19 amBuDuh,
A few threads ago, you pointed out that you and your friends did believe that Trump lost the election. What do you think of Trump’s determination to relitigate 2020? it does seem pretty important that he is so focused on this.
Also, to Dana’s point — as long as Trump is the prsumptive nominee in 2024, why shouldn’t this group — which is mostly conservative — be interested in his doings?
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:26 amNo, they were engaged in general fascism for seeking to overturn the popular vote, especially since the allegations about Bush losing Ohio were completely baseless.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:33 amGood one, “ovine Northwest”.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:35 amThere sure is a lot of short-term thinking in the Trump/hyper-partisan camp. There is no sense that ripping at the fabric of our electoral process…indiscriminately….and with little sense of proportionality….might actually lead to violence and instability. Our political system itself is already breaking….most everything is stuck in gridlock…and distorted by partisanship. How we receive news is broken….we can’t agree on basic facts or what is true. The BLM and Jan 6th mobs are showing us the future….with more Rittenhouse escalation inevitable. Yet, we are told over and over to not worry about lies and exaggerations from one side…..and only focus in on the incompetence on the other side. I’m not sure what’s left to be said…..history will show who was right. What more could Putin and Xi ask for? Unfortunately I fear the car will need to crash before we change course….
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:36 amAJ, many of them have been convinced that’s all already happened and that the attempt by trump to steal the election (and current actions by trumpers) are correct and justified. If they bother to move from whatabout and generalities they might back off from justified and appropriate but won’t really move past “excusable”.
Time123 (9dd6b2) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:50 amAJ, also, the Democrats are doing a terrible job of responding to this. The fact the Trump wing of the GOP is trying to destroy the democratic process doesn’t excuse the Dems incompetence at a critical moment.
Time123 (9dd6b2) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:51 amThat story – of Democrats refusing to certify Bush’s victory – doesn’t get enough play. Shocker. Why would the media and Democrats want to shine a light on their assault on democracy?
Hoi Polloi (ade50d) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:52 amTrump’s White House Passed Around a PowerPoint on How to End American Democracy
The House Select Committee to Investigate the Jan. 6 Attack on the Capitol on Thursday released slides from a PowerPoint calling for former President Trump to declare a national security emergency in order to delay the certification of the results of the 2020 election. The presentation was referred to in an email provided to the committee by Mark Meadows, the former White House chief of staff who’s had a rough couple of weeks, to say the least.
The revelation is the latest piece of evidence that Trump and his inner circle, including his allies in Congress, were very actively and very aggressively trying to overturn the results of the election, which Trump lost handily.
The PowerPoint presentation, which spanned 38 pages and was titled “Election fraud, Foreign Interference & Options for 6 JAN,” was part of an email sent on Jan. 5, the day before the attack on the Capitol. ……[S]lides from the presentation on Thursday detailing a conspiracy theory-laden plan for Vice President Pence to install Republican electors in states “where fraud occurred,” and for Trump to declare a national emergency and for all electronic voting to be rendered invalid, citing foreign “control” of electronic voting systems.
Rip Murdock (8dd5e1) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:54 am………
The release of the PowerPoint slides laying out options to overthrow democracy comes a day after the committee noted in a letter that Meadows had provided text messages in which he discussed a “highly controversial” plan to overturn the election results by appointing alternate electors in certain states. “I love it,” Meadows replied to the idea, which was sent to him by a lawmaker. Meadows discussed the same plan, which was described as a “direct and collateral attack,” in a separate email. The letter referenced the PowerPoint presentation, as well, but did not provide details of its contents.
……..
Paul, I think they were also grandstanding in a destructive and harmful way. But they got little attention and most Democrats ( especially the leadership accepted the Bush won. The comparison is somewhere between bad faith and obsessed with grievance.
Time123 (9dd6b2) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:55 amHP, when did you start caring about our democracy?
Time123 (9dd6b2) — 12/10/2021 @ 11:57 amThe republicans signed off on no filibuster for the debt ceiling. Zero about a budget. Zeros they are.
mg (8cbc69) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:04 pmBob Dole spoke on this from the grave
steveg (e81d76) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:20 pmIf republican controlled legislatures give electors to the republican who lost the popular vote in there state vote will the democrat party say shame on you and do nothing? Maybe not! The democrat party and labor unions were planning a general strike if biden won the popular vote but lost the electoral collage or had it stolen. and that was just for starters. Remember biden won az, ga. and wi. by a combined total of 44,000 votes not the 8,000,000 popular vote lead.
asset (4e41fb) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:23 pmIf you have some time —it is worth looking at the PowerPoint linked in Rip’s article. It is … something.
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:24 pmBut it is still too little, and can create a backlash (votes for the DEM candidate)
What Donald Trump is doing is trying to turn the Republican Party into a version of the Communist Party/
It can be conservative. Vladimir Putin calls himself a conserative.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:27 pmIts never too late. As AOC says we can not change history ;but we can make you wish we could!
asset (4e41fb) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:35 pmThe democrat party and labor unions were planning a general strike if biden won the popular vote but lost the electoral collage or had it stolen.
Source?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:57 pm@35 guardian oct 31 2021 yahoo news nov 1 2021 democracy now (don’t have date)
asset (4e41fb) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:16 pmPat, I think you discount the fact that there is a limit on what will be tolerated. A blatantly stolen election (like Trump tried in 2020) will result in so much actual insurrection that the job he wins won’t be work crap. Not that it will actually happen — a lot of this is humoring the man.
OTOH, take the parade of Democrat horribles. No IDs, mass vote harvesting, ignoring all indications of provenance on ballots, eliminating poll watchers from any real poll-watching, and mail ballots everywhere everytime. In New York City they are going to let non-citizens vote. Next will be 15-year-olds.
Not to mention things like the Popular Vote Compact. Both parties are gerrymandering every state they control (while loudly protesting the other party’s efforts, and where they cannot gerrymander they act as if that was their choice).
At what point is the election already stolen before a vote is cast? That’s the way it is done most places. Putin counts all the votes, but other candidates can’t campaign. The mullahs count all the votes, but only people they like can run. Other places they just lose the voter rolls in places they don’t like.
Trump is a dumbass and thinks that lying and repeating a lie over and over is the way to fool people. It is instead the way to get people digging up their guns.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:18 pmAlso, I don’t know how anyone that cares about our country can look at the Medows plan to steal the election and not be alarmed.
What did the Meadows Plan say about dealing with 10 million people there to hang you? And no, the faux outrage of the “stolen 2020 election” and the Trump whackadoodles does not come close to what happens when the centrists are digging up their guns.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:22 pmThis is why the Electoral Count Act could use some updating, and it’s why the GOP probably won’t get on board with amending said act, not if there’s a potential loophole to overthrow an election.
Do you think that, the next time the Democrats “win the popular vote” but lose the electoral vote, they will refrain from exploiting those loopholes? Some tried in 2000 and 2016. Next time it will be all “Trump would do it if he could” by way of justification, and the press will cosign.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:28 pmExcept where Democrats don’t:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/12/maryland-redistricting-democrats-gerrymandering-andy-harris.html
Victor (9ebafe) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:28 pmIf you have some time —it is worth looking at the PowerPoint linked in Rip’s article. It is … something.
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 12:24 pm
It won’t make any difference to the Trumplican true believers.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:29 pmfluctuating gas prices
Fluctuating: Monotonically rising
— Victor-speak dictionary
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:30 pmI wouldn’t mind seeing them try to defend it. It’d be illuminating.
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:32 pmnk
I thought about 2022, but have much more faith in the people of Axios to gin up the Trump bogeyman into the 2024 cycle and beyond.
Why?
The Democrat turnout in 2020 was driven by Trump being the Democrat bogeyman. They didn’t show up for Biden, they showed up for “any functioning adult” and even that was dumbed down by Biden to “allegedly semi-functioning”
The liberal wing of the press is going to rehash Trump in 2022, 2024, 2026 and 2028 until every last drop is squeezed from the orange.
Some people live to score their dose of Trump outrage.
steveg (e81d76) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:36 pmLook at Peter Strzok today mindlessly retweeting Rolling Stone gibberish about Trump
“Hunter. Put the pipe down”
steveg (e81d76) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:45 pmThis Christmas I feel for the people who moved up in the Secret Service as principled agents in executive protection only to catch the task of facilating safe crack purchases and Chinese infuence peddling… but since they didn’t resign, its only a small feeling. OK. Gone now.
gas prices over the years
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price
So sure the difference between 3/gal in 2019 and 3.44 gallon now is worth ditching democracy.
I would wonder at American Conservative outrage at allowing the permanent residents of a city have some voice in how its run but then I just have to remember that for AC’s democracy is privilege not a right, that authority to govern is not determined by the consent of the governed, and that the power to vote must only be handed, judiciously, to those who have passed the requisite tests and proved themselves worthy.
Victor (9ebafe) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:53 pmIt’s probably why many Democrats won’t sign on to an amended ECA either, Kevin, but I’m guessing.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:54 pmI just really don’t to see some piece of garbage sophistry that passes for legal reasoning by charlatans, i.e., John Eastman’s “thesis”, be used again by a head of state or political party to throw out popular votes.
@43 why defend “recommendations” that never actually happened?
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:58 pmBTW, John Eastman wasn’t the only charlatan attorney peddling garbage legal sophistry on Trump’s White House team. Turns out Elite Strike Force member Jenna Ellis also cranked out some sketchy legal handscratch in furtherance of Trump’s attempted coup. A real constitutional scholar, Ms. Ellis.
These are the legal minds that Trump chose to surround himself with in his final days. It didn’t matter their acumen, they just had to tell what he wanted to hear.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:04 pmJF:
Look at the attached. What do you think? Make sense to you?
https://web.archive.org/web/20210716135230if_/https://www.ingersolllockwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/voter-fraud.pdf
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:08 pm@50 maybe detail what rolling stone, the guardian, dailykos, etc are huffing and puffing about
it’s not those slides
quit with the shell game
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:13 pmR.I.P. Mike Nesmith, guitarist, singer, songwriter for The Monkees
Icy (6abb50) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:30 pm# 50
My link is what they are huffing and puffing about. Maybe take a look and refute the huffing. Or not. Wouldn’t want those precious preconceptions upset.
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:33 pm@53 unless there’s a slide that says “start a riot and sack the capitol”, there’s nothing to defend
cuz that’s the only thing that actually happened that’s worth huffing and puffing about
do you have that?
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:40 pmNope — I have “declare a national security emergency” and “declare all electronic voting invalid”.
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:48 pmDid that happen?
BuDuh (a13888) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:51 pm@55 ok, so nothing
don’t let that stop the usual huffing and puffing though
knock yourself out
JF (e1156d) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:53 pmNo Budget proposal by the republican leadership in forever. You couldn’t pay me to vote for any republican.
mg (8cbc69) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:00 pmDead or Alive. All these self proclaimed republicans on this site never complain about what a failure republicans have been not demanding a budget since 2007 or 8. Pathetic. Every time they get air time they should make it an issue. Idiots on knees.
Sailors on leave at Subic Bay had more fiscal conservatism than we see from todays political fiscal conservatives.
steveg (e81d76) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:18 pmIt going to to take some pendulum swing ugliness to get it back.
I overhear some gang members outside my house talking about how they will conduct an invasion of my home. The police drive by, the gang members get spooked, and they disperse.
None of their talk matters because the home invasion didn’t happen.
norcal (d9c78c) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:24 pmAnd I would be foolish to talk about it or prepare against a home invasion in the future.
norcal (d9c78c) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:26 pmMy link is what they are huffing and puffing about. Maybe take a look and refute the huffing. Or not. Wouldn’t want those precious preconceptions upset.
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/10/2021 @ 2:33 pm
As I said, the Trumplicans don’t care.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:36 pmVictor (9ebafe) — 12/10/2021 @ 1:28 pm
Funny, because in New Mexico they’re pushing a map that aligns all three districts in favor of Democrats, including splitting up the oil-producing southern and southeastern parts of the state to put them in districts with politicians who want to destroy those communities’ jobs. The Dems’ majority leader, Brian Egolf, got carried away right after the election and blatantly admitted they were going to completely marginalize Republican voters in the state, before being forced to walk his statement back.
Meanwhile, in Colorado, now that the state is essentially east California and Denver resembles a slightly less drug addicted, bum-infested cesspool than Portland, Democrats are currently lamenting that they pushed for an independent commission ten years ago to ensure “fairness,” only to see that commission essentially maintain the representative status quo and make their newest district a competitive one (state Hispanics were pushing for one carved out exclusively to ensure a Hispanic representative in Congress. Talk about racial purity.). And let’s not forget the Illinois Dems rewarding Kinzinger’s stand on principle by eliminating his district.
I can understand you standing up for your team, but you don’t have to deny reality to do so.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:37 pmGood comment, FWO. Both sides do it.
norcal (d9c78c) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:46 pmExcept where Democrats don’t:
Maryland has a GOP governor. There are states, like mine, where Dems control everything for the first time in years (who should I thank?) and they are arguing about how badly to gerrymander. They’ve already thrown out the Citizen’s Commission plans.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:51 pmThe Dems’ majority leader, Brian Egolf, got carried away right after the election and blatantly admitted they were going to completely marginalize Republican voters in the state, before being forced to walk his statement back.
He said that letting the legislature be narrowly divided (like the state which is D+3 according to Cook) “would prevent progressive policies from being enacted.”
Yay! Democracy!
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:57 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 3:57 pm
The Santa Fe Ring is back, except this time it’s controlled primarily by Democrats instead of Republicans.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 12/10/2021 @ 4:02 pmEvery time the governor has to pick between New Mexico or her party, she chooses the party.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 4:44 pmThe GOP primaries are going to be very interesting this year. Allen West is running for governor of Texas. So is a BlazeTV talk-show host. And of course Abbot. Should be fun to see who goes up against Beto.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/10/2021 @ 4:51 pmVictor, FWO is correct. Dems are terrible about gerrymandering. So is the GOP, but I don’t care who started it. It’s terrible policy. Also, the slate article is funny I’m that being held up as an example of not gerrymandering. A state with 8 seats and 30% gop should have been 2 and 3 gop reps. Or at least that many competitive districts
Time123 (1c75e0) — 12/10/2021 @ 5:01 pm26.
Trump rejected this plan, and/or possibly Mark Meadows prevented it from reaching the president. (It could be it was only presented orally to Trump by Sidney Powell and Mike Flynn)
It’;s known that Mike Flynn (possibly at the instigation of Russia) proposed that Trump declare
martial law. Trump rejected it after asking whether or not it was legal. He knew, of course, that the most that could happen is that he would start a very short civil war, which he would lose, and at the end of which he would find himself dead or in prison.
This goes back to what Senator John McCain said. Senator John McCain was of the opinion that there should be any emergency provisions put into the constitution or enacted into law because it could be misused – and in a genuine emergency, when government ceased to function, people would ignore the constitution, but they would only do so if it was real and there was no choice.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 12/11/2021 @ 4:45 pm51. These talking points are not only lies (that were not used) but only make sense at all to people unfamiliar with hos the election system works.
Chinese now? That wasn’t used. Well, they did try to check for bamboo in the Arizona fake audit (they didn’t want to be caught faking their work, so they made it come out with Bden winning Arizona. It would have undergone more scrutiny had they claimed Trump won.)
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 12/11/2021 @ 4:55 pmI really have a problem getting all concerned about some unlikely scenarios when right at this moment the Democrat Party is locking themselves into the NM state legislature for the rest of my lifetime, by means of a highly partisan computer-driven gerrymander in defiance of the popular will to have remapping done by an independent commission (chaired by a past state Supreme Court justice).
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:29 pmThe state is D+3, according to Cooke. The legislature is 45-25 and 27-15 (an all-time peak, after the anti-Trump blowout) and they intend to keep it that way.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:32 pmTexas, which the Democrats continue to use as a poster-bogeyman, is R+5. The TX legislature reflects that, with GOP-Dem splits of 85-65 (56%) and 18-13 (58%). Texas does have a lopsided congressional delegation 23-13 (63%).
New Mexico, which the Democrats will call “fair” is D+3, but the Dems have 64% of each House, mainly by bolting in as many rural voters as possible into urban-dominated districts. They will probably win all 3 House seats by narrow margins.
In all cases “gerrymandered” Texas is far fairer to the more-outnumbered Democrats than the proposed maps for less-partisan New Mexico.
And, again, the third-order effects of some GOP wild plans, that will not come to pass, are simply a distraction. SQUIRREL!
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:49 pmI have no problem with partisan gerrymandering. Drawing legislative districts is a political act, and shouldn’t be left to unelected bureaucrats. The people’s representatives should be responsible.
Rip Murdock (8dd5e1) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:56 pmI encourage Victor to explain why Texas is a gerrymander, when their state legislature pretty fairly reflects the GOP tilt, without being obscene about it. According to Cook, the Congressional delegations are 23-13 is spite of the fact that only 36% of the districts are majority-white. It is highly likely that the 23-13 spread will narrow to better reflect R+5.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:57 pmRip, I disagree. The people should choose their representatives, not the other way around.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:58 pmDrawing legislative districts is a ministerial act.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:59 pmIn New Mexico, the south-east of the state is dependent on the oil industry, but will likely be represented going forward by an anti-oil Congresswoman, due to a portion of Albuquerque being bolted into their district.
Meanwhile the same legislators are fighting over how to spend a $1.6 billion windfall from unexpected oil revenues.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 1:03 pmThe people should choose their representatives…….
They do. It’s called elections. And who do think appoints the redistricting commissions. Politicians, who then use the commission maps as plausible deniability to avoid responsibility.
Rip Murdock (8dd5e1) — 12/12/2021 @ 1:08 pmSorry Kevin,
But history has shown that while you can vote in socialism, you need the 2nd Amendment to get out from under it.
NJRob (56b381) — 12/12/2021 @ 5:51 pmTime123 — i’ve gone past being alarmed into being defeatist. The Republican base supports this and is getting behind Trump’s efforts to ensure that those in power in state governments will make it happen in 2024, the Democrats are blind to the problem, and the window of opportunity to act to stop it closes on January 3, 2023.
The Republic was a good thing, and there really isn’t a good reason to be abandoning it, but we are.
aphrael (4c4719) — 12/12/2021 @ 5:56 pmaphrael,
It’s a bogeyman. It’s what they want you to look at while they take the pea out from under the pod. There is no way that a party will survive after doing that to the voters. The government might not either, but the next election will be brutal to any party that attempts to steal the election through these BS means. This goes for the Popular Vote Compact, too, which is the Democrat version of this plan.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 10:53 pmKevin, there’s substantial evidence that the Trump administration attempted to stop the lawful transfer of power after losing a fair election. That’s not a boogeyman. It’s clear that most current republicans *at best* feel this is a smaller problem than stoping the dems. Most seem to have no problem with it. Many are active participants in the lie that formed the basis for his attempt. I don’t think your comments that voters will punish attempts to steal elections is correct based on what I’ve seen this year.
I agree with you that gerrymandering is a real problem and undemocratic and I’d love to know more about what’s happening in New Mexico if you have any links to share. I’ll google it, but good local information is hard to find. I didn’t see any party difference in gerrymandering. People make all sorts of arguments about who started it/who does it more but I don’t think that matters. It’s systemic flaw.
I think the popular vote compact is bad policy. They’re trying to effectively amend the constitution without going through the correct process. But I don’t think using a flawed process to change from electoral college to popular vote ahead of the next election is at all similar to trying steal an election that was clearly lost, or building infrastructure to do so more successfully in the future.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/13/2021 @ 5:28 am@77, Paul, you’re right on the current process. But uncompetitive districts yield fringe candidates whose primary appeal is to the extreme wings of their party. As evidence of this i offer you AOC, Ilhan Omar, MTG, Boebert, Gosar etc. Increasing the number of elected officials of their ilk is wholly bad for our country.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/13/2021 @ 5:32 amOne common thread with many of the candidates he’s backed so far: They all support his efforts to overturn Joe Biden’s victory.
They are ambitious people. If the litmus test was whether the sky was green, they’d say the sky was green.
Many Democrats are intent on electing people at every level who believe that freedom must be suppressed for the common good, and drastic changes have to be “made” in society to solve the problems of racism, climate change, income inequality, access to health care, education and
jobsincome (and a host of other horribles that only they can see (but you will be made to see)). That they call themselves “democrats” is ironic. Their goal is a guided democracy al a Iran, and they will hijack the Supreme Court if that’s what they have to do to get there.And after Trump is gone and all his works collapse, they will still be at it. Once they win, there won’t be any meaningful elections any more.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/16/2021 @ 2:57 pmKevin, there’s substantial evidence that the Trump administration attempted to stop the lawful transfer of power after losing a fair election.
No, there is a lot of evidence that TRUMP attempted to stop the lawful transfer of power after losing a fair election.
See the difference. His administration did not support him, starting with the Vice President and working down. Trump tried to get his (8th or 9th) AG and other officials to help him, but for the most part they lost the message, resigned or were hard to get hold of.
Since the administration officials are unelected, Trump’s power over them (his voting block) was pretty weak. Congressfolk and such are far move vulnerable and we see that in their response.
It is utterly false to say that the Trump ADMINISTRATION had any dog in the hunt.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/16/2021 @ 3:01 pmI’d love to know more about what’s happening in New Mexico if you have any links to share.
They have passed the Congressional plan that makes all three districts urban-dominated, with a pod extending into ABQ then out to their third of the state. The Dems will turn a 52-48 state into 3 Dem congressmen who will represent Albuquerque and Santa Fe along.
Presidential elections since 2000 here were D+0.5%, R+2%, D+7%, D+4%, D+2% and in 2020 D+10%
Right now the Dems are riding high on the back of 2018 and 2020 and the state’s rejection of Mr Trump — particularly the Hispanic vote which is largely non-immigrant. But parts of the state are very red and this urban domination will make them voiceless.
They are also doing the same thing at the state level as much as possible.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/16/2021 @ 3:16 pmTime, a question:
Do you think that a steal of the election, like what Trump tried in 2020, would be tolerated if it actually occurred? My feeling is that, assuming he lived to take office, Trump would be in charge of very little and about 20 states would vote to secede. What is he going to do? Nuke Los Angeles to stay in power?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/16/2021 @ 3:20 pmShould the word “along” here be “alone?”
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/16/2021 @ 4:28 pm89 I don’t think even Trump’s family went along. Melania and others continued packing.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/01/14/white-house-staff-packs-for-move-behind-trumps-back
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/16/2021 @ 4:34 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 12/12/2021 @ 12:58 pm
It’s perfectly fine the other way, within limits. In the UK MPs choose their constituencies – they can represent any place.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/16/2021 @ 4:36 pm