“Lincoln” Project: “We Must Destroy the Republican Party”
I put it in quotes because it’s . . . a verbatim quote:
We must destroy the Republican Party. pic.twitter.com/tTtpFfR662
— The Lincoln Project (@ProjectLincoln) November 29, 2021
“We must destroy the Republican Party” sounds a lot like something Lincoln’s *opponents* would have said.
It also sounds like a fairly conventional position of Democrats.
I am distressed by the direction the Republican party has taken. But absent any almost certainly doomed third party scenario (and I have endorsed the idea of forming one, more as a thought experiment than a Serious Proposal), the party needs to be reformed. I’m not sure how “destroying” it is a good idea unless the idea is to install single-party rule by Democrats. Who, you might have noticed, are not particularly sensible themselves these days.
If the Party could have a direct simple platform. Like the one Gingrich had, then the Party should not only support those who pledge the party platform, but have significant life and social experiences that they can bring to the legislature. Too many times we are getting family legacies that get weaker and less effective. we have a young G. Bush, with very little life accomplishments, vying for a job he isn’t qualified for. These must be discouraged as it weakens the brand, having these constant kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews as their only marketable point.
We should have a robust contract/compact with America ten items
I’ll throw out the first
1. All Legislators must disclose immediate family’s income, sources of income and must reside in their district for 10 years before running for office from that district
EPWJ (0fbe92) — 11/29/2021 @ 8:56 amThe Lincoln Project should’ve been destroyed after the Warner Unpleasantness.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:07 amThe GOP as I knew it has already been destroyed, which makes me a proud RINO.
The Lincoln Project has destroyed their credibility among much of the republican voters.
Just treat them as another run-of-the-mill Democrat propaganda arm.
whembly (fbaaf7) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:14 amNo, the Democrats don’t want to destroy the Republican Party.
They want to turn it into a permanent 20% to 30% minority that cannot get any more votes but is too big for anyone else besides Democratic candidates to win without it.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:18 am1. All Legislators …… must reside in their district for 10 years before running for office from that district
That would require a constitutional amendment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:22 am“It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.”
Quote by Peter Arnett attributed to anonymous Army officer, February 7, 1968.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:35 amThey’ve spent this year implementing an authoritarian political agenda …
If only. They’ve spent the year pandering to the lowest common denominator like they were Democrats or something.
nk (1d9030) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:40 amIt comes down to that old choice between the Evil Party and the Stupid Party. Dumb as it is I still generally prefer the Stupid Party.
Soronel Haetir (be15e6) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:46 amthe LP says publicly what most journos think privately
JF (e1156d) — 11/29/2021 @ 9:58 amEPWJ proposal:;
1. All Legislators must disclose immediate family’s income, sources of income and must reside in their district for 10 years before running for office from that district
That would make it easy for a political party to exclude someone from the ballot by redrawing lines., which they have to do at least once every tn years.
There couldn’t be any better protection for incumbents.
Right now, membera of Congress have to reside in their state, but they can move there up to 30 days before the election (maybe longer if needed to get on the ballot.) It is customary for people running for the House to move into their district, but not required. In the UK it is not at all customary for MPs.
Governors have at times been required by their state to live in the sate for five years. This only benefits members of political machines.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:22 am8. You realize that the Stupid Party is the Democrats now?
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:23 amActually, in some respects, they both have evil wings.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:24 amI’m not sure what purpose the Lincoln Project serves at this point, other than a way to vacuum up campaign contributions and make increasingly ineffective partisan ads.
Appalled (1a17de) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:37 amThere are two reasonable paths to take and neither involves “destruction.”
* You can attempt to reform the GOP from within, though primary challenges or support of the sane. For example, you could send money to Liz Cheney or start organizing for 2024. This is harder though, as the party is national and has considerable inertia.
* You can attempt to form a new party that rejects the cancers that have made the GOP a non-starter for many (and this is not limited to “Trump”). You don’t even need to solve all the issues, since this can be started in a single state. God knows that supplanting the GOP in California would be easier than doing it in Kansas. Even in a single congressional district you could shake up things simply by coming close. All you have to do is fill some of the vast gap between these two now-fringe parties.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:55 amBut the Lincoln Project is a Democrat front at this point. “Concern” trolls on steroids.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:56 amThe GOP should sue the Lincoln Project for trademark infringement.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:58 amthe LP says publicly what most journos think privately
If you mean “We should elect Democrats” then you’re spot on.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:00 amIt’s a grifting operation.
Davethulhu (67c626) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:00 amWe have two parties now: Statist-Left and Statist-Right. Nothing in the center. Nothing that isn’t anti-individual. Even where they pretend to support individual rights, they really mean they want to use the power of the State to make everyone accept things they might not like.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:02 amThe mistake people make about some third party is that it should be the old GOP. That party is dead. It had a good run, from 1980-2007, but it came a cropper in Iraq and Wall Street. After 2012, it was a zombie.
What is needed is a party that supports actual federalism, devolving federal power to the states and willing to let states be wrong. We have an incredibly mobile population, and for any state that is disatisfactory to some, there will be another state that seems much better. Let Idaho be Idaho and Vermont be Vermont. Except for those things written down in the Constitution, let the states make the rules.
I think that people would find that most of the GOP-Dem split is over who controls the rules for the nation, and a fear that it will be the other guys. Break that assumption and much of the division ends. Don’t like it where you are? Move.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:10 amthe LP says publicly what most journos think privately
Oh, you mean the Lincoln Project, not the Libertarian Party.
My comment still stands.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:12 amKevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:10 am
Give me these guys and I’ll vote for it. And I don’t think I’m one of a few.
frosty (f27e97) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:33 amI think Trump has completely destroyed the Republican Party of old and kept nothing but the name. Not sure if the Lincoln party is a grifting operation, a comedy venture, or a wing of the Democratic Party. I pay attention to them for the same reason I’ll watch the. Occasional SNL clip; because sometimes they’re funny.
They are frequently correct about what a dumpster fire Trump and his circle are, but that’s not really a profound or insightful obersvation.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:42 am#23
It’s first and foremost a grifting operation, with a comedy wing for entertaining the rubes. As Lincoln said “You can fool some of the people, all of the time.”
Appalled (1a17de) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:47 amAppalled, I suspect you’re right, even if I feel slightly insulted at being called a rube. 😉
I’d like to reserve ‘rube’ or the people who donate money. But I see where you’re coming from
I do think whatever credibility they once had has been long since used up and this point they’re a sketch comedy group with a very limited subject mater.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:55 amI am going to put my feelings aside and vote to derail the biden left wing Democrat agenda.
steveg (e81d76) — 11/29/2021 @ 1:03 pmHaving Trump for 4 is easier to rehabilitate than 8-12 consecutive years of this current BS
Essentially a clique of ex-campaign consultants singing off-key and desperately seeking relevance– as well as a paycheck; the music stopped with no chairs open. Fewer and fewer buy their buggy whips anymore.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/29/2021 @ 1:16 pm“I do think whatever credibility they once had has been long since used up and this point they’re a sketch comedy group with a very limited subject mater.”
Anyone who takes them seriously after the “tiki torch” incident should have their head examined.
Davethulhu (67c626) — 11/29/2021 @ 1:22 pmBut absent any almost certainly doomed third party scenario (and I have endorsed the idea of forming one, more as a thought experiment than a Serious Proposal), the party needs to be reformed.
It is being reformed– [revisit 1964]– just not in the direction you’d prefer. It has been ong overdue. But a good thing about third party pushes, if strident enough, is it can act as a drag anchor and allow the party afloat to shift with the prevailing winds of the times– then be pulled up- or absorbed– back into the party it dropped out of to begin with.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/29/2021 @ 1:25 pmMy vote doesn’t matter — I live in California — but if it did I wouldn’t vote for a Republican again until the GOP is purged of Trumpist influence. Considering how pervasive that influence is, is my position synonymous with “destroy the party?” I don’t know. As currently constituted I believe the GOP should be stripped of any vestige of power. Call that what you wish.
lurker (59504c) — 11/29/2021 @ 7:46 pmThey are frequently correct about what a dumpster fire Trump and his circle are, but that’s not really a profound or insightful obersvation.
I don’t find it especially courageous or principled for Democrats to find great fault with a clown on the GOP side.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:49 pmO/T
This headline, really? [not putting in the link]
Rapper Is Suspected Driver in Wisconsin Parade Tragedy That Killed Five, Injured 40
Wow. Suspected of driving.
felipe (484255) — 11/30/2021 @ 3:54 amWithout looking it up, I swear: It’s NBC, right? And I don’t mean MSNBC. Grosskreutz of Kenosha was a “wounded medic” to them.
nk (1d9030) — 11/30/2021 @ 4:29 amOk, now I’ve looked it up. It’s from some site called consequence.net I’ve never heard of before. It’s not Yahoo!’s headline — Yahoo is only acting as an aggregator/re-reporter. But no apology to NBC, anyhow.
nk (1d9030) — 11/30/2021 @ 4:35 amKevin, I agree, but they didn’t start out as Democrats. Many of them were long standing members of the Republican Party and other then opposition to the GOP i don’t see that they’ve endorsed any traditional left wing policy proposals.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/30/2021 @ 4:53 amMy vote doesn’t matter — I live in California — but if it did I wouldn’t vote for a Republican again until the GOP is purged of Trumpist influence
Your only choices at this point in California are Left and Farther Left, anyway, so it hardly matters at this point. GOP voters in the flyover states despise the coastal political classes and consider voting for Trump a middle finger to people like you, anyway.
Lauren Boebert is sitting in the representative’s seat for Colorado’s 3rd District for the precisely the same reason–because the Western Slope absolutely despises the Front Range, and even more so now that the Denver suburbs are effectively a socio-economic version of the Bay Area and Los Angeles. Boebert being elected was a deliberate FU to Denver’s toxic political alliance of potheads, tech goons, race grifters, LGBT lawfare mafia, neoyuppies, and the Denver media.
Kevin, I agree, but they didn’t start out as Democrats. Many of them were long standing members of the Republican Party and other then opposition to the GOP i don’t see that they’ve endorsed any traditional left wing policy proposals.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/30/2021 @ 4:53 am
If their literal goal is to “destroy the Republican Party,” that’s effectively a distinction without a difference at this point.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 11/30/2021 @ 5:12 amAt this point yes. I agree that you’re right. The idea I was trying to lay out was that the initial pushback against Trump back in 2016 by the Lincoln project took some political courage. Democratic resistance at that time did not.
Also, I agree with you about the motivation of a lot of Trump’s base
Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/30/2021 @ 5:23 amLet’s not the forget that the overriding goal of every organization is its own perpetuation. With the election over, the Lincoln Project needs a new reason to exist, so it finds a new mission. If the Republican Party were to collapse today, tomorrow the Lincoln Project would be going against people who grin at Afghans.
nk (1d9030) — 11/30/2021 @ 5:42 amThat’s reductive. When we allied with the Soviets to destroy the Nazis, did that make us Bolshevik? Did we approve of anything about the Soviets apart from than their willingness to fight a common enemy?
I’m an Independent. In normal times I hold the Democrats and Republicans in equal disdain. Thanks to the existential threat posed by Trump’s insurrectionist GOP to the survival of our democratic republic, these times are abnormal. As long as that threat persists, I’ll be nevertrump and anti-GOP. That doesn’t mean I disdain the Democrats any less than I did 5 years ago. I’m just willing to join their fight against a common enemy for as long as that enemy is anti-democratic (small “d”).
lurker (59504c) — 11/30/2021 @ 4:43 pmAt this point yes. I agree that you’re right. The idea I was trying to lay out was that the initial pushback against Trump back in 2016 by the Lincoln project took some political courage. Democratic resistance at that time did not.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/30/2021 @ 5:23 am
Sure, but I suspect whatever actual principled conservatives happened to have been a part of it in the beginning (George Conway, for example) yeeted out of there around the time of the Weaver scandal. All that’s left now are political mercs backed by Democratic strategists, which is why Rick Wilson is basically running the outfit now.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 11/30/2021 @ 7:19 pmThat’s reductive. When we allied with the Soviets to destroy the Nazis, did that make us Bolshevik? Did we approve of anything about the Soviets apart from than their willingness to fight a common enemy?
It’s rather telling that you consider this to be an existential conflict rather than an ordinary spate of political turmoil that isn’t exactly unusual in American history. You might want to read up on what happened in the US between around 1890-1920 rather than make that sort of silly analogy.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 11/30/2021 @ 7:22 pmIf you were willing to acknowledge the existential threat in Trump’s multiple attempts to overturn our presidential election, including by encouraging and defending the violent 1/6 attempted insurrection, you wouldn’t be a Trump supporter. So I hardly expected you to agree on that score. Nor am I surprised you didn’t respond to the actual point of my comment.
lurker (59504c) — 11/30/2021 @ 8:12 pmIf you were willing to acknowledge the existential threat in Trump’s multiple attempts to overturn our presidential election, including by encouraging and defending the violent 1/6 attempted insurrection, you wouldn’t be a Trump supporter. So I hardly expected you to agree on that score. Nor am I surprised you didn’t respond to the actual point of my comment.
lurker (59504c) — 11/30/2021 @ 8:12 pm
I’m hardly going to take some half-baked analogy seriously like the one you offered up. And as I’ve pointed out multiple times, I didn’t vote for the guy. Unlike you, however, I at least understand why the GOP base turned to him in the first place, as well as the fact that this isn’t the first time that the GOP has gone through heated internal debate over what kind of party it was going to be in response to extraordinary socio-economic forces.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 11/30/2021 @ 8:20 pmIt’s also notable that you consider a populist GOP base to be “the enemy.” If you and those with our perspective had fought the Democrats even 10 percent as hard over the last 30 years as you do the GOP right now, perhaps the Dems wouldn’t have turned your state into their own political fiefdom, or effectively gained control of nearly all of our national cultural institutions in that time frame.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 11/30/2021 @ 8:24 pmThe analogy wasn’t the point. It was a way to illustrate it. A good one IMO, but if you don’t like it, ignore it. The point stands: You don’t become the movement/party/country you ally yourself with against a common enemy merely by dint of the alliance.
You’re right. I didn’t spend the last 30 years opposing either party as energetically as I oppose the Trump GOP. I’m good with that. Until Trump, neither party stood for dismantling our democratic system of governance.
lurker (59504c) — 11/30/2021 @ 9:12 pmMany Never Trumpers took the pro-active step of going beyond the small potatoes of destroying the Republican Party and jumping right to destroying the country by voting for (and endorsing) Biden/Harris.
Obudman (ae22b9) — 11/30/2021 @ 9:23 pmThe leftist party supports turning our nation into a communist state, but that’s not an existential concern to you. Guess the USSA doesn’t bother you as much as Trump. Living in California I can understand why.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/30/2021 @ 9:47 pmChris Cuomo’s next gig, bringing professionalism and gravitas to the Lincoln Project.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/30/2021 @ 9:51 pmMany Never Trumpers took the pro-active step of going beyond the small potatoes of destroying the Republican Party and jumping right to destroying the country by voting for (and endorsing) Biden/Harris.
The object of Trump and his supporters was always ABOUT destroying the GOP. Just ask them.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/30/2021 @ 9:52 pmWhen you are wondering who the mark is, it’s you.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/30/2021 @ 9:52 pmFor as long as I’ve been alive, you, your right wing ilk, and your left wing counterparts, cried so much wolf about communists and fascists, you denuded the words of all useful meaning. Nice work.
Until recently, you and your tribal opponents were equally deranged. Not any more.
lurker (59504c) — 12/1/2021 @ 1:10 amThe object of Trump and his supporters was always ABOUT destroying the GOP. Just ask them.
Yup!
The only difference between Trumpcakes and Wokesters is what parts of America they hate. And what foreign enemies they love.
nk (1d9030) — 12/1/2021 @ 4:50 am“America First”, my only aunt! That is biggest Big Lie!
nk (1d9030) — 12/1/2021 @ 4:56 am@45 “You don’t become the movement/party/country you ally yourself with against a common enemy merely by dint of the alliance.”
godwin’s law aside, you become the movement/party/country you ally yourself with if the end result has you being ruled by it.
our alliance with the soviets didn’t include the goal that they assume power over us
JF (e1156d) — 12/1/2021 @ 6:22 amallying with the democrats to put biden in power makes you a democrat
JF (e1156d) — 12/1/2021 @ 6:25 am@55 what does allying with Democrats to keep Trump out of power make you?
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 7:39 am@44, I think populism, especially with a ethno-nationalist tilt, is a terrible policy and I oppose it from a policy perspective.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 7:43 am“If you and those with our perspective had fought the Democrats even 10 percent as hard over the last 30 years as you do the GOP right now, perhaps the Dems wouldn’t have turned your state into their own political fiefdom, or effectively gained control of nearly all of our national cultural institutions in that time frame.”
I’m curious what it really means to “fight” the Democrats. To me, in part, it means elevating really smart, honorable, thoughtful, and articulate people to voice Republican perspectives and win the battle of ideas…or at minimum, win half a loaf. Politics is about persuasion….and ultimately about finding compromise….and blending the concerns, priorities, and values of both sides. Anything sustainable….whether it’s social security or a flatter tax code…demonstrates the process. Not every value of the Left is evil….while not every value on the Right has been noble. Yes, the devil is in the details.
Right now who is the leading voice of the GOP and what are they saying? Is it being led by Radio Talk Show hosts, FNC opinionators, internet bloggers, politicians? To me it seems pretty fractured…with the common emotions being anger and fear….and unfortunately much of the time over-wrought fear.
Many of us dislike Trump precisely because he’s an impediment to what needs to happen. He’s the opposite of articulate, thoughtful, and honorable….and many of his ideas aren’t exactly smart. And the movement seems cynical and aimed at shrinking the tent. The Soviet Union helped to hold together a diverse group of economic, social, libertarian, and Neocon conservatives. The War on Terror, Globalization, and the housing market collapse further soured that coalition. Biden has been the best unifier possible. But Trumpism remains a deal breaker. Conservatives by definition are conservative in their judgment. Trump is the opposite of that and his priority is to find as many people who will bend the knee…principles be damned. If you truly want to fight the ideas from the Left…step 1 seems to be to find a better front man. It’s hard to persuade people with your ideas if your de facto leader is flawed in so many ways. It’s hard to fight the Left when the GOP is fixated on Stop-the-Steal and who is the “real” President…..
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 12/1/2021 @ 7:52 am@56 and put who in power instead?
if you didn’t think that would be biden, then i guess that makes you just dumb rather than dumb and democrat
JF (e1156d) — 12/1/2021 @ 8:19 amAJ, I assume “fight” means culture war issues such as; gay marriage, treating Christian holiday’s as the ones most deserving of respect and recognition, publicly according respect and deference to people who confirm to a certain culture and look (think mid century America), treating Western European art and history as inherently right and superior and not spending much time on other areas, teaching American history as chain of continuous improvement from good to better with minimal focus on events that deviate from that narrative, in a conflict of competing rights prioritizing those that align with ‘conservative Christian values’ that kind of stuff.
I think FWO made it clear when he said
As best I could tell Warrens economic plan was the most populist of the bunch, and she clearly meant it. But she was one of the most detested of the Democratic contenders because she was also very much part of the cultural left that the MAGA base feels looks down on them.
I think ( and would welcome feedback if I’m misunderstanding) that what the MAGA base really wants is someone that will push back on cultural issues, speak out against things they feel are insults to them as a group, and loudly tell them they deserve respect they feel they’re not getting. With the end goal being a reversal of the changes in cultural norms and preferences that they dislike. Had Trump been able to bully target into putting the signs back up that said “Boys / Girls Toys” or gotten them to go from Happy Holiday’s to Merry Christmas that would have been a big win.
That person could run on any economic / foreign policy platform they wanted so long as it was part of a coherent message that “I will force everyone to show you the respect you and your desired way of life deserve and punish those who have been denying you that.”
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 8:33 am@59, I knew it would be Biden and viewed him as the lesser evil. Still do FWIW. Trump’s efforts to steal the election nailed that down. I Just wondered if you changed your characterization based on intent. Thank you for taking the time to answer.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 8:35 amJoe actually brought up Beanie Babies today in his supply chain speech.
Then literally blamed the world for inflation.
On deck: God.
Does he still drive a Triumph SX-70 to visit the Cabbage Patch Kids and take snapshots of them w/his Polaroid TR-7? Does he know the Flux Capacitor is optional w/a Delorean?
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/1/2021 @ 10:56 amUntil recently, you and your tribal opponents were equally deranged. Not any more.
Oh, they still are. Just more so.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:09 amI think populism, especially with a ethno-nationalist tilt, is a terrible policy and I oppose it from a policy perspective.
“Populism” is not a policy, it’s a reaction to previous bad policy. It’s what happens when the masses no longer trust the people they hired to take care of those boring policy jobs. So, they put down the remote, sober up and take to the streets. NOT what they want to be doing, but they see no alternative. So they rant and rave and elect destructors. After the offending structures are torn down, they go back to beer and football.
Populism is the necessary and ultimate corrective force in a democracy. The thing to ask is not “is this a good policy?” but “How the F did we F up so bad to wake this beast again?”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:14 amThe problem with Trump is he doesn’t realize that he was a destructor and that his job is now done.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:15 amDoes he still drive a Triumph SX-70
It’s the shape of things to come.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:16 amKevin, destruction of elite instructions is part or populism. But so is protectionism, subsidies for favored industries, unions, high taxation etc. etc.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:19 amThanks for explaining your political persuasion.
At least you’ll never pretend to be conservative.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:24 amConsidering how much you discuss and focus on social issues, I’m not surprised you’re more comfortable with a brain-dead leftist as president than a Republican or even scarier… a conservative.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:26 amBut so is protectionism, subsidies for favored industries, unions, high taxation etc. etc.
I don’t see crony capitalism being a big thing among the masses. It may be something that scoundrels get on with while the buildings are burning, but it’s not why the buildings are burning.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/1/2021 @ 11:26 am“I assume “fight” means culture war issues….With the end goal being a reversal of the changes in cultural norms and preferences that they dislike.”
I have no qualms when smart, thoughtful, articulate people make conservative cultural arguments….and offer constructive ideas. But in a pluralistic society with federalism at its core, sometimes you aren’t going to be able to impose cultural norms. New York City ain’t gonna become Salt Lake City. And sometimes fanning the flames around these items of culture accomplish nothing useful…and are really only used to divide us as a nation: The Left pulling down statues…the Right grousing about xmas. Everybody has an opinion and now it’s so easy to broadcast it…and find others to reinforce it….and others to become belligerent with. We’ve forgotten how to be civil….and Trump exacerbates the problem. We want and need healthy debate, but we also need to have shared facts, context, and good faith. It doesn’t look good when the leader of the GOP isn’t honest about facts and just weaponizes issues for maximum political benefit. His messaging is designed for his base, not really to persuade those that are persuadable. Cynically, yes that brings out the base, but it also activates the opposition base. Find a better messenger….
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 12/1/2021 @ 12:01 pmMaybe it makes more sense if you think of the crony’s as the “the people.” Think subsidies for the steal industry or Carrier in Indiana.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 12:03 pmNJRob, I primarily vote based on liberty and economics issues. The party I had mostly aligned with has become highly focused on cultural issues that are often things I don’t much care about (e.g. the war on Christmas or what bathroom other people use) So yes, Biden’s social issues stance aligns more with mine than Mike Pence’s, but I care more about liberty and economic issues and had historically voted based on that. There’s never been a serious candidate that shared my preferences in both areas.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 12:21 pm@71 AJ, I think a big part of the problem is the rate at which the right has been losing ground on the culture war. We went from ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ to an openly Cabinet members pretty quickly.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/1/2021 @ 12:26 pmYou’re right, I won’t. I realize you think that’s some sort of gotcha, but I never claimed otherwise. I’m an independent pragmatist. I have progressive friends who are as sure I’m a neo-fascist as you are that I’m a commie. I have policy preferences that make me anathema to the purism police on both sides, and I value principles that make both sides unacceptable to me.
If the Democrats ever lined up behind a leader as anti-democratic and comprehensively awful a person as Trump is, I’d be making common cause with the Republicans. But they didn’t. The GOP did.
lurker (59504c) — 12/1/2021 @ 4:01 pm