Patterico's Pontifications

11/27/2021

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:30 am



[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

First news item

White House responds to new variant:

This morning I was briefed by my chief medical advisor, Dr. Tony Fauci, and the members of our COVID response team, about the Omicron variant, which is spreading through Southern Africa. As a precautionary measure until we have more information, I am ordering additional air travel restrictions from South Africa and seven other countries. These new restrictions will take effect on November 29. As we move forward, we will continue to be guided by what the science and my medical team advises.

Besides South Africa, the other countries impacted include Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini, Mozambique, and Malawi. The variant, identified this week, was found in Bostwana, Hong Kong, and South Africa. Why it’s of such great concern for the world has to do with a rapid increase in test positivity rates:

In South Africa it has been detected in Guateng province – positivity rates in Tshwane (part of Guateng) have increased massively in the last 3 weeks from less than 1% to over 30%.

Here is an informative thread about this latest variant.

Related: According to the Africa CDC, just 6% of Africa’s population is fully vaccinated.

Yes, certain letters were specifically avoided when naming the Omicron variant:

South Africa responds to the travel restrictions:

The South African Government has noted the announcements by several countries to institute temporary travel restrictions on South Africa and other countries in our region.

This follows the detection of the new Omicron variant.

South Africa aligns itself with the World Health Organisation’s position on the latest travel bans.

The World Health Organisation has pleaded with world leaders not to engage in knee-jerk reactions and has cautioned against the imposition of travel restrictions.

Dr Michael Ryan (WHO Head of Emergencies) has stressed the importance of waiting to see what the data will show.

“We’ve seen in the past, the minute there’s any kind of mention of any kind of variation and everyone is closing borders and restricting travel. It’s really important that we remain open, and stay focused,” Ryan said.

We also note that new variants have been detected in other countries. Each of those cases have had no recent links with Southern Africa. It’s worth noting that the reaction to those countries is starkly different to cases in Southern Africa.

Second news item

Just say no:

Activists are calling on 82 major apparel and retail companies around the world to commit to sourcing cotton outside of China. In a letter to “apparel industry leaders,” the Coalition to End Forced Labour in the Uyghur Region cited a study that ties international cotton sales to accusations of brutal treatment of China’s Muslim minority…

In 2020, the United States banned the import of certain Xinjiang products, including cotton, over concerns about forced labor in the region…

Insider reached out to all 82 companies who received the letter on November 22. The brands that received the letter included retail and e-commerce giants like Amazon, Carrefour, Costco, Home Depot, Ikea, Jo Ann Stores, Kmart, Kohl’s, L.L. Bean, Macy’s, Patagonia, Sears, Target, Walmart, and Wayfair. Most of the recipients were apparel brands, including American Eagle Outfitters, Brooks Brothers, Chico’s, Duluth Trading, Eddie Bauer, Forever 21, Gap Inc., Guess, Hanes, Hugo Boss, Land’s End, Levi Strauss, Lilly Pulitzer, Lucky Brand, Madewell, Marco Polo, Michael Kors, Ralph Lauren, Uniqlo, and Vineyard Vines.

Most did not immediately reply. JCPenney declined to comment.

Related:

What’s the holdup, Nancy?:

Republican members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee asked Speaker Nancy Pelosi to stop delaying a House vote on legislation dealing with Beijing’s genocide of Uyghurs and crimes against humanity targeting other minority groups in a letter today:

We urge you to stop delaying floor consideration of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA). As you know, the House bill passed the Foreign Affairs Committee on April 21, and the Senate bill was received in the House on July 16. Both passed without any opposition….

The Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act would impose a near-ban on certain products coming from the Xinjiang region, under the presumption that they were produced using forced labor. While the bill would not by any means convince the Chinese Communist Party to end its campaign to destroy Uyghurs and other Turkic minority peoples, it would help prevent Americans from being complicit in the abuses.

Third news item

Challenges to come if Trump runs again:

DEADLINE: If Trump runs again, what do you think reporters should keep in mind in covering him just given what happened on January 6?

JONATHAN KARL: I think it’ll be one of the greatest, maybe the greatest challenge ever facing campaign reporters. How do you cover a candidate who is effectively anti-democratic? How do you cover a candidate who is running both against whoever the Democratic candidate is but also running against the very democratic system that makes all of this possible? I think it’s tremendously challenging, because you know that — especially now, more than ever — that he is just saying things that are not true, that are designed to misinform, that are designed to erode credibility and belief in our electoral system. And it’s actually dangerous. So how do you cover a debate? How do you cover a speech? How do you sit down for long live interviews with him as a candidate? I think these are really difficult questions because he is obviously not a typical candidate. He’s never been a typical candidate, but now he has been demonstrated to be a candidate that is trying to destroy the very system that makes this election possible. And yet we cover campaigns. That’s what we do. It is a very difficult, precarious situation, and I don’t know how it is going to play out, to be honest.

Fourth news item

Ah:

Among the most important tools in a politician’s toolbox is the ability to dodge an unflattering question. In an interview segment released Monday, Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Michigan) offered a textbook case study in how not to do it.

In the interview, Axios’s Jonathan Swan pressed Tlaib on the BREATHE Act, a bill authored by the social-justice coalition Movement for Black Lives and backed by Tlaib and fellow “Squad” member Ayanna Pressley, among others. Swan noted that the proposal would empty federal prisons—home to about 12 percent of prisoners nationwide—within a decade of passage.

Tlaib denied this (“Everyone’s like, ‘Oh my God, we’re going to just release everybody’”), but the bill’s text clearly instructs the federal Bureau of Prisons to cut the prison population in half within five years and attain “complete decarceration” within 10, in addition to “physically closing all federal prisons.” Pressed further, Tlaib hemmed and hawed, insisting that the real problem was providing mental health and drug addiction care, while never quite coming out against freeing thousands of drug traffickers, weapons offenders, and other serious criminals in federal detention.

Make sure to read the report in its entirety at the link above.

Fifth news item

‘Refund’ the police:

On this issue, Mr. Monk – a Black man from one of America’s most liberal cities – agrees with his white Republican governor. In October, Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan announced $150 million to “refund the police.” Around two-thirds of the money would go to police aid and salary. Another one-third would fund accountability programs, neighborhood safety, and victim services.

The plan almost certainly won’t pass the state’s heavily Democratic General Assembly. But, oddly enough, it communicates some consensus. A year after widespread calls to defund or abolish the police, those options are increasingly unpopular. In Maryland, the legislature, governor, and citizens in high-crime areas like Baltimore mostly agree that law enforcement can be reformed, and needs to be.

That’s true across the country, says University of Nebraska Omaha Professor Emeritus Sam Walker. Police reform and police spending aren’t part of a zero-sum game.

“If Governor Hogan is talking about refunding police, then money becomes the leverage for doing things differently, and I think that’s an important strategic lever to change things,” says Dr. Walker. “I don’t think you have to go through the defund part to say that we want to create a modern and progressive police department that’s going to handle routine problems in a better way.”

Sixth news item

Pushing back in California:

A shareholder advocacy organization filed a lawsuit this week challenging a state law that mandates public corporations headquartered in California to appoint people of color or LGBTQ leaders to their boards of directors. The National Center for Public Policy Research filed the complaint on Tuesday, claiming “the diversity quotas injure Plaintiff’s right to vote for the candidate of its choice, free of a government-imposed race, sex, and sexual orientation quotas,” according to the lawsuit filed in the District Court for the Eastern District of California.

Daniel Ortner, an attorney with the Pacific Legal Foundation, said he aims for the courts to declare both diversity laws unconstitutional. “The state of California is intruding into corporate affairs to impose quotas based on race and sex and they don’t have a good justification for doing so,” he said. “Companies are already diversifying, without the need of the state of California forcing the matter. And doing so through a quota, in particular, is discriminatory and unlawful.”


Seventh news item

Dutch government apologizes:

The Dutch government made a public apology Saturday for a now discredited and scrapped law that required transgender people to undergo surgery and sterilization if they wanted to change their gender on their birth certificate.

“Nobody should have experienced what you have experienced. I am truly sorry that it happened,” said Dutch Minister for Education, Culture and Science Ingrid van Engelshoven in an emotional speech at a ceremony in the historic Knights Hall in the Dutch parliamentary complex.

The law was in place for nearly 30 years until being scrapped in 2014.

“For decades, people underwent medical procedures that they did not want at all. But they knew they had no other choice,” Van Engelshoven said. “Others have waited because of this law; they were forced to postpone becoming themselves for years.”

She said that “standards about what a body should look like do not belong in a law and a law should never force people to undergo an operation. And today I make our deeply sincere apologies for this on behalf of the full Cabinet.”

Eighth news item

Eh, charm and good looks are almost always a winning hand:

Matthew McConaughey would defeat either incumbent GOP Texas Gov. Greg Abbott or Democratic challenger Beto O’Rourke in a head-on race if he ran for governor in 2022, a new poll suggests.

In the scenario of a one-on-one showdown, the Oscar-winning actor was preferred by voters over both Abbott and O’Rourke, according to results from a new poll by the Dallas Morning News and the University of Texas Tyler.

However, in a three-way race, Abbott edges out the other two.

Ninth news item

Neither one of these is the best and the brightest, and both are inclined to show their bigoted underpants. As you recall, Rep. Ilhan Omar has made her share of anti-Semitic slurs – and then been compelled (by Pelosi) to apologize. This slur by Rep. Lauren Boebert is a direct and personal attack on Rep. Omar, as well as smearing the Muslim community at large:

She later tweeted a non-apology (at which politicians excel):

P.S. I am reading that Boebert was joking when she made the comment. Sure… Just like Omar was joking about the Benjamins… They both play to the cheap seats of their narrow-minded, bigoted bases. I want nothing to do with either of them or their fans.

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

299 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (174549)

  2. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/11/26/florida-reports-lowest-coronavirus-cases-capita-blue-states-surge/

    It’s almost like the policies government puts in place don’t seem to effect the virus, but instead dictate other results.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  3. Fauci said that although no case has been detected in the U.S., it wouldn’t surprise him to find out that the variant is already here:

    “We have not detected it yet,” he said, “but when you have a virus that is showing this degree of transmissibility and you’re already having travel-related cases that they’ve noted in Israel and Belgium and other places, when you have a virus like this, it almost invariably is ultimately going to go essentially all over.”

    I think it’s likely that it’s already here too. Why wouldn’t it be? But, given that it’s so new and so little is known about it, is New York’s governor jumping the gun by declaring a disaster emergency, which would allow the limiting of elective surgeries in preparation for a possible surge of Omicron?

    Dana (174549)

  4. On CNN, a doctor stated that with measles, the rate of an infected individual infecting others is 1:17. However, they suspect that the Omicron, that level of transmissibility will increase to 1:50. Because the rate of transmissibility is, at this point in time, considered to be significantly higher than previous variants, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be more dangerous of an infection.

    Dana (174549)

  5. If only the world had banned all travel from China in January 2020.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. Which states have done well, and which states badly, against COVID?

    You can find the basic statistics in this table. The most important is the deaths per million.

    Of our two most populous states, California (1,882) has done better than Texas (2,553). (Texas is likely to pass California soon in total deaths, in spite of having more than 10 million fewer people.)

    Our two next most populous states, Florida (2,847 and New York (2,978) have both done worse than the national average (2,414). If you look at the two individually, you will see that New York got hit hard early, and that Florida had a spectacular increase in deaths during the delta wave.

    Looking at the bottom of the table, we find three standouts: Maine (969), Hawaii (717), and Vermont (651). (The colder weather in Maine and Vermont is leading — as I have predicted — to increases in those states, but I think they will end with far fewer deaths per million than states like Florida, Texas, and South Dakota.)

    But, don’t take my word for it; look for yourself. It isn’t a difficult table to read. And you can click on individual states to look for the timing in each state.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  7. Forced labor in cotton growing? Now, where have I heard of that before? Aren’t there already laws that prohibit the import of slave-produced goods?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. #5 Kevin, or at least quarantined those who returning from China. I believe the original wave in New York came, indirectly, from China, by way of Europe, but I think we still would have been better off with a fast quarantine.

    (AIUI, we have facilities for quarantines for dangerous diseases; we just didn’t use them.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  9. Jonathan Karl on Trump: What makes him believe this is a unique situation? We have had anti-democratic leaders before. Huey Long. Boss Tweed. The Robber Barons of the Gilded Age. How did they cover those folks?

    ☐ Bravely
    ☐ Carefully
    ☒ Sychophantically

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. I am convinced the original wave was sourced at CES, 2nd week of January 2020, in Las Vegas

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. https://nypost.com/2021/11/25/indiana-school-administrator-on-leave-after-viral-crt-video/

    Banned from going to school and his work is restricted.

    Anyone still going to pretend that CRT isn’t indoctrination that’s taking place in our schools?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  12. But, don’t take my word for it; look for yourself.

    Hawaii isolated itself, as it could. For the most part, Covid statistics do not submit to easy analysis; there are multiple factors.

    Mask protocol
    Vaccine uptake
    Density
    Government orders
    People’s trust in government
    Being a travel source
    Being a travel destination
    Having large hub airports
    Having many airports
    Being a southern land border state
    Having large sovereign reservation populations

    and so forth. It is not reasonable to assert any simple relationship to any one of these. For every California there is a New York. For every Alaska there’s a Mississippi.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. Anyone still going to pretend that CRT isn’t indoctrination that’s taking place in our schools?

    Punishing whistleblowers is pretty stupid.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. The reason we have inflation is that Biden things inflation is a good thing for his base. Debts at fixed interest diminish. The wealthy become less wealthy. Tax income goes up before indexing and SS outflow goes down before indexing.

    Biden is driving this by massive deficit spending, threatening future oil supplies and putting a $20/hour floor under wages for the first 8 months of his term.

    And I though 4 years of Trump was bad. This is going to be terrible.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. As far as Boebert of Omar, I am reminded of a line in The West Wing to the effect of “This is a job so stupid we need to give it to Congress.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. Omar is a horrible person and being a racist is only a part. So is Tlaib. There’s no equivalence between either of them and Boebert.

    frosty (f27e97)

  17. The reason we have inflation is that Biden things inflation is a good thing for his base.

    Rather some group of people who run his administration. Biden is not thinking about this stuff. DCSCA was right about his mental capacity.

    We are finding a lot of ways to enfeeble our own nation. Far fewer people are contributing, working (with such a long list of reasons why they shouldn’t work). Our dollar. Anything saved and built.

    Biden’s energy policy is crazy. He’s doing all he can to limit production, but to make us feel better he’s going to tap the strategic oil reserves. It’s like leaving a sprinkle in the donut box to keep your diet.

    Dustin (150498)

  18. #13 Kevin – Well, sure. And I can name other factors you missed. Nonetheless, it is reasonably clear by now that states that followed better policies have — on the average — had better outcomes, so far.

    And it also seems reasonably clear to me that rural states have an advantage over more densely populated states.

    Do you disagree with those two conclusions? If so, could you give statistical evidence for rejecting them?

    (By “reasonably clear”, I mean that I would give probability estimates of 90 percent or more to both conclusions.)

    Incidentally, it seems likely, judging by the timing, that Mexico got the disease from us, rather than the other way around.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  19. “There’s no equivalence between either of them and Boebert.”

    Representative QAnon is an inspiration to us all.

    “He’s doing all he can to limit production, but to make us feel better he’s going to tap the strategic oil reserves. ”

    What is he doing?

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  20. By the way, Vermont also closed borders.

    In spite of the cost to its tourist trade.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  21. Dana – As to your third item, I have thought for some time that Trump is, at heart, a monarchist, that he believes in inheritance, far more than elections. (And, after all, he inherited his position.)

    That explains some oddities, such as how well he gets along with others who inherited their positions, for example, the king of Saudi Arabia, Queen Elizabeth II, Kim Jong-un. The three are wildly different, but he seems to have had good meetings with all of them.

    It also explains why he believes his children ought to inherit power, as well as money.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  22. How does a corrupt media defending a corrupt political/electorial system cover a corrupt politician? Pot calling the kettle black! Trump yelling the emperor (are corrupt political system) has no cloths. A system that benefits the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us complains about trump and fears is populist base. Even the minorities are fed up with the media crying wolf as it defends the corrupt democratic corporate establishment.

    asset (390bb8)

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  26. I’ve bought a couple of these spacepens for myself, and six or seven as presents for friends and family.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  27. Representative QAnon is an inspiration to us all.

    Davethulhu (67c626) — 11/27/2021 @ 12:37 pm

    That’s a creative way to say “whatabout qanon”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  28. @23 it’s as if the bushes never existed

    JF (5d04c8)

  29. “That’s a creative way to say “whatabout qanon”.”

    You were literally comparing Boebert with Talib and Omar. Boebert is a QAnon advocate. An election truther. A 1/6 supporter.

    She’s plenty awful.

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  30. @5 biden’s travel ban doesn’t take effect until monday, rendering it useless

    there are travelers with omicron coming into the country as we speak

    he did the same foot dragging with delta

    JF (5d04c8)

  31. This research looks promising, combining Benadryl and lactoferrin as a Covid treatment.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  32. @33 boebert is a qanon advocate like omar is an incest advocate

    and an election truther like cheney is a 1/6 truther

    JF (5d04c8)

  33. From Paul Montagu’s link:

    Like diphenhydramine, lactoferrin is available without a prescription. Ostrov thought about pairing it with diphenhydramine and ran with the idea. In lab tests on human and monkey cells, the combination was particularly potent: Individually, the two compounds each inhibited SARS-CoV-2 virus replication by about 30%. Together, they reduced virus replication by 99%.

    Wow.

    Dana (174549)

  34. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

    A nice handy reminder of the mass murders done under communist regimes.

    Wonder why someone is trying to get Wikipedia to delete the page.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  35. Dave, good to point out that she’s nuts. Here’s a link to support your claim. Easy to find more with google if anyone wants to.

    https://www.axios.com/qanon-nominees-congress-gop-8086ed21-b7d3-46af-9016-d132e65ba801.html

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  36. RIP Peter Ackroyd (66), Steven Sondheim (91), and Dave Frishberg (88).

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  37. Paul,

    I hope his testing pans out. If that works as a therapeutic, it would be fantastic.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  38. Court Can Order Vaccination of Children When Divorced Parents Disagree
    From Burch v. Lipscomb, decided [November 19, 2021] by the Kentucky Court of Appeals (Judge Glenn Acree, joined by Judges Susanne Cetrulo and Jeff Taylor):

    Danielle Burch … objected to vaccinating her children based on her religious convictions, while joint custodian Paul Lipscomb … desired that his children be vaccinated….

    The parties divorced on June 15, 2018. In accordance with the decree of dissolution, they share joint custody and equal timesharing of their two minor children, aged eight and six. Throughout their marriage, and through the divorce proceedings, the parties agreed to decline required immunizations for their children on religious grounds. They had executed affidavits in New York and Georgia declining vaccinations for their children on religious grounds. On October 12, 2018, after their divorce, both parties executed the Commonwealth of Kentucky’s form for declining immunizations on religious grounds.

    However, two years later, on June 30, 2020, Father filed a motion for an order permitting him to vaccinate the children. Mother objected, and a hearing was conducted by the Anderson Family Court to resolve the question.
    ……..
    The family court found it was in the children’s best interest to be vaccinated. ……

    Citing Kentucky law, Mother argues the family court cannot order “immunization[s] of any child whose parents or guardian are opposed to medical immunization against disease, and who object by a written sworn statement … based on religious grounds[.]” However, Father responds that the statute refers to the plural “parents,” not the singular. He therefore argues that when one parent objects, and the other parent does not, the court must decide. We agree because this is in harmony with our family law jurisprudence.
    ……..
    …….. The family court noted that the health and welfare of the children is this “[c]ourt’s priority even when balanced against the proclaimed religious beliefs of one parent.”

    Under analogous circumstances involving First Amendment objections by one parent, this Court reached the same conclusion in Young v. Holmes, 295 S.W.3d 144 (Ky. App. 2009). In Young, as in this case, the family court made an informed decision after a hearing that was based on the children’s best interest. We cannot say the family court’s factual findings lacked the support of substantial evidence, and we cannot conclude that it made any legal error in reaching its decision….
    ………

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  39. “Wonder why someone is trying to get Wikipedia to delete the page.”

    Wonder no longer! There’s a link to the reasons and discussion at the very top of the page. It’s very hard to miss.

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  40. I have a comment on Cotton that keeps not getting caught in Moderation if one of mods has a chance to look for it. I’ve tried twice and the last one is the best one.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  41. Jim & Kevin,
    Regarding Covid it’s important to consider not just what rules were put in place but also how readily people complied with the rules. Given the number of factors involved (climate, geography, average age, population density, income, co-morbidities) it’s hard to model. Marketwatch has a summary of different impacts, the top level data is pretty horrific; counties that voted for Trump have a substantially higher death rate from Covid.

    The gap in the COVID-19 death toll between red and blue America grew faster over the past month than at any previous point in the pandemic, according to a new report featured in the New York Times morning newsletter on Monday. It noted that 25 out of every 100,000 residents in counties that heavily voted for President Donald Trump last November died from COVID in October, which was more than three times higher than the rate in heavily Joe Biden counties (7.8 per 100,000). And October was the fifth straight month when the gap between COVID deaths in Trump and Biden counties widened.

    And even among red counties, those with more Trump voters had more dire outcomes. The counties where Trump won at least 70% of the vote have an even higher average COVID death toll than counties where Trump won at least 60%.

    It will be interesting to see how the this winters flu season impacts that. FL and TX were. Recently hit with the Delta wave. MI is doing pretty badly right now so some of the difference might be gone by the spring.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/red-covid-coronavirus-deaths-are-highest-in-counties-with-the-largest-share-of-trump-voters-report-11632764116

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  42. Interesting article about vaccination rates. The number 1 predictor of whether someone is vaccinated or not is whether or not they have health insurance.

    https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-september-2021/

    I found the above article reading this thread about why that might be the case. The tl;dr is that “If people’s only experience with a for-profit medical system meant to find secret ways to cheat them, SURPRISE! Some people who’ve been burned will be wary of engaging with a suddenly free form of service!”

    Also interesting: “Being Republican” is the top predictor of “refuses vaccination”

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  43. While I’m on Covid.

    Spectrum health released an infographic on the efficacy of vaccines.

    Over 90% of people hospitalized for Covid 19 are unvaccinated.
    Over 90% of people in the ICU for Covid 19 are unvaccinated.
    Over 90% of people on ventilators for Codie 19 are unvaccinated.

    The vaccine works. Everyone discouraging it (regardless of what phrasing they use) is giving you bad advice. Unless they’re your doctor and have knowledge of your personal medical information.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  44. Seven From Anti-Vax Doctors’ COVID Conference Fall Sick Within Days
    To hear the fringe doctors who gathered at an equine facility for the Florida COVID Summit earlier this month, ivermectin is as effective against the virus in humans as it is against worms in horses.

    “I have been on ivermectin for 16 months, my wife and I,” Dr. Bruce Boros declared at the end of the meeting at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala. “I have never felt healthier in my life.”

    Two days later, the 71-year-old cardiologist fell ill with COVID-19, according to the organizer of the one-day gathering and two other people with direct knowledge.

    The organizer, Dr. John Littell, further reported to The Daily Beast that six others among the 800 to 900 participants had also tested positive or developed COVID symptoms “within days of the conference.”
    ………
    Boros remained seriously ill at his Key West home, according to people who know him but who asked not to be identified. Boros himself did not respond to phone messages and emails.

    However Boros is faring, there remains the question of why he became seriously ill in the first place if ivermectin is the wonder drug the anti-vaccine crowd claims it is, rather than primarily a treatment for parasites and head lice in humans, as well as a horse dewormer. He had been taking the drug since the summer of last year for what he described as a personal research project.
    ……..
    …….. Boros has remained so convinced of the drug’s value that he put his 97-year-old father, Carl Arfa, on it along with himself. His father, sensibly, then decided to get something proven to work against COVID: the vaccine.

    “He had been brainwashed,” Boros said at the summit. He recalled, “He got it. He didn’t tell me. I was very upset. I wanted to give him a spanking. He got both jabs.”

    Arfa caught the virus, which officials say is still spreading because so many people refused to get the vaccine. …….. The father finally lost his fight with the virus five days later, hours before Boros attended the summit.
    ……..
    (Boros) was so lost in untruth that he suggested the vaccine had actually contributed to his father’s death.

    “We’re seeing astronomical numbers of deaths in people that have been vaccinated, particularly the older people,” he said.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  45. Another one got caught in moderation

    will retype

    Spectrum health released data showing that over 90% people in the hospital, ICU or on a ventilator in their health system because of Covid 19 i unvaccinated.

    https://twitter.com/leonhendrix/status/1463631605440950273?s=21

    Except for your doctor, anyone discouraging the vaccine (regardless of what phrasing they use) is giving you bad advice.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  46. @46, Republican leadership (especially those in the media) have been discouraging vaccination since 2020. Even those that push it play footsie with anti-vax sentiment. What do you expect?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  47. Davethulu,

    the “wonder” was rhetorical. But I’m not surprised by your response.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  48. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/27/2021 @ 4:17 pm

    Your link has 2 fairly bland quotes from Boebert and you’re thinking that makes her nuts? On the other hand we’ve got Tlaib wanting to shutdown federal prisons and release the inmates.

    Those aren’t comparable at all. Q is a bogey man. It’s a bad dream that keeps lefties up at night. Tlaib and Omar are actually dangerous.

    frosty (f27e97)

  49. #45 “Regarding Covid it’s important to consider not just what rules were put in place but also how readily people complied with the rules.”

    Time123 – Agreed. And yes, it is complex and difficult to predict. Here’s my favorite example: Suppose one person infects two of his visiting friends, who then go back to their home states. Friend 1 gives the virus to one other person; friend 2 is a “super spreader”, and gives it to 10. That initial difference, due to chance, might last for weeks in the two states.

    But, I repeat, we can see some patterns and, if we want to be rational we should act on them, while searching for more and better information — wherever we can find it. (That marketwatch article is a good example.)

    And I think we can be at least 90 percent certain that the policies followed by, for example, Rick Scott in Vermont are better than the policies followed by Ron DeSantis in Florida. At least.

    Would you agree?

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  50. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/27/2021 @ 5:04 pm

    Translation: I know R’s have encouraged vaccination but I’m going to read their mind and say they’re against it without giving any specifics because it’s obvious.

    frosty (f27e97)

  51. “On the other hand we’ve got Tlaib wanting to shutdown federal prisons and release the inmates.”

    Boebert wanted to overturn the election, she came closer to her objective than Tlaib has come to shutting down federal prisons.

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  52. Time123,

    I released your comment. It went to the spam folder, for some reason.

    Dana (174549)

  53. The top 10 GOP presidential candidates for 2024, ranked
    ………
    10. Mike Pompeo: Few have made their designs on potentially running for president as obvious as Trump’s former secretary of state and CIA director. …….. The big question with Pompeo is just how compelling he actually is as a candidate.

    9. Greg Abbott: The Texas governor is one of two big-state governors, along with Florida’s Ron DeSantis, who have gone to great lengths to establish their Trump-era-conservative bona fides — as opposed to more traditionally conservative ones. ……..

    8. Chris Christie: There is precious little evidence that the GOP will turn against Trumpism anytime soon; anybody betting on that taking place by 2024 had better get some extremely favorable odds. But if there’s one national player who could drive that message, it might be former New Jersey governor Christie, who has spoken out more and more against the president he so helped in 2016. ………

    7. Donald Trump Jr.: If the elder Trump doesn’t run and the GOP base continues to place such a high premium on owning the libs over governing chops, virtually nobody else on this list has shown such an ability to give it what it wants.…….

    6. Ted Cruz: Speaking of making owning-the-libs and trolling your organizing principle, Cruz has taken quite the turn this year. ……. The question as ever with Cruz is whether anyone really likes him enough, and whether the Trump base would ever trust him after what he pulled at the 2016 convention.

    5. Mike Pence: Pence’s chances to be a post-Trump favorite for the nomination took a serious shot in January….. He’s still a former vice president, but one who could sure use the type of party-wide turning of the page that Christie needs.

    4. Tim Scott: Almost nobody has flown beneath the radar, while also earning plaudits for memorable moments, as well as the senator from South Carolina. ……. The drawback here is that the spotlight can be harsh, and Scott doesn’t have as much experience with it.

    3. Nikki Haley: Haley is the biggest enigma on this list. She has both demonstrated a striking ability to navigate tough political waters — think the Confederate flag controversy in South Carolina when she was governor — while also seeming to have no idea how she truly intends to proceed.…… There’s something to be said for trying to be all things to all people, sure; but it’s been gobsmacking………

    2. Ron DeSantis: If there’s no Trump, and there’s a desire for a Trumpism-without-Trump (and without another Trump) candidate, DeSantis is that guy right now — and it’s not very close…….

    1. Donald Trump: If he runs, he’s the overwhelming favorite, and most or all of the above don’t run against him, because what’s the point? A strong majority of Republicans want him to run again, and about half say they would support him from the start. …….

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  54. Thanks Dana. I wonder why? Regardless I hope the people interested in American Made goods take a look at the link. Their hoodie really is nice.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  55. Jim, most powerful predictor of getting very ill from Covid is whether or not you’re vaccinated, I hope people act on that.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  56. This is not a “bland” quote from a sitting member of Congress:

    Also, at that Thanksgiving break campaign event, Lauren Boebert made seditious statements and pushed the big lie.

    Lauren Boebert called Mar-a-Lago “the new White House” and affirmed an audience member who called it “the real White House.

    Dana (174549)

  57. Frosty, she’s nuts. Omar is nuts. Tlaib is nuts MTG is nuts and we need fewer like them in Congress.

    The GOP anti-vax stuff has been discussed here previously. Check out some of the posts Patterico wrote if you’re fuzzy on it. He did a pretty good job on it. I could repeat all of that but I doubt there are many persuadable people at this point.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  58. Well, we can certainly hope that QAnon does not become even more a source of violence. But this story is not encouraging:

    Earlier this week, the so-called QAnon Queen of Canada opened up “duck-hunting” season in the Great White North.

    Now, to be clear, we aren’t talking about hunters in hip waders going after our fine-feathered friends with a loyal hound by their side. These “duck hunters” are “soldiers” of Roman Didulo—a Canadian woman who has convinced thousands of QAnon adherents that she’s the secret ruler of Canada—targeting health care workers administering COVID-19 vaccines to children, politicians, journalists, and others who make up the cabal at the heart of the QAnon conspiracy.

    To be sure, she hasn’t been consistent in what she wants “duck hunters” to do. At first she was calling for them to kill anyone vaccinating children; now she wants the vaccinators rounded up, arrested, and then executed.

    (It shouldn’t surprise anyone that Putin’s people have helped spread QAnon theories, or that a few people have already tried to act on them.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  59. RIP

    Pence has the longest shot. The true believers won’t forgive him for not helping steal the election.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  60. Boebert wanted to overturn the election, she came closer to her objective than Tlaib has come to shutting down federal prisons.

    Davethulhu (67c626) — 11/27/2021 @ 5:16 pm

    Wanted? There was no way Boebert was anywhere near getting whatever wish she had. Fortunately, that’s in the past.

    Tlaib on the other hand has a bill with a really catchy name because she’s not grifting on the death of Floyd or anything. Unfortunately, Tlaib still has time in front of her to accomplish her goals. And people willing to run interference for her.

    frosty (f27e97)

  61. Dana (174549) — 11/27/2021 @ 5:34 pm

    How far down that Twitter feed do I need to go to get to the seditious comments?

    frosty (f27e97)

  62. #60 time123 – Again, agreed. But there are still many, many Americans who are not vaccinated — including some of my relatives — and we need to do our best to protect them, too.

    Megan McArdle has some practical suggestions for ways we could do better, including this one:

    The FDA’s caution has still left us behind other countries in key respects, notably rapid testing. With a new variant about, we should be able to break out rapid home test kits to keep our social gatherings from turning into superspreader events. But backlogs at the FDA, combined with an insistence on precision over speed, have left the United States unable to do so on the necessary scale. Tests are too expensive to use frequently, if you can find them at all.

    We need home testing kits so cheap and plentiful that everyone has piles of them everywhere. Heck, give them away in boxes of cereal. That means the FDA should approve tests even if they’re a little less accurate. If that’s not enough to make test kits ubiquitous, the U.S. government should stand up something like an Operation Warp Speed for testing.

    (Some, of course, will be shocked at the idea we could learn from other nations.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  63. “Wanted? There was no way Boebert was anywhere near getting whatever wish she had. Fortunately, that’s in the past.”

    She voted to overturn the election results.

    Meanwhile, in the almost year and a half since the idea of the “BREATE Act” was raised, it has still not even been introduced to congress.

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  64. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/27/2021 @ 5:39 pm

    It wouldn’t be an open thread without some red-baiting

    frosty (f27e97)

  65. These “duck hunters” are “soldiers” of Romana Didulo—a Canadian woman who has convinced thousands of QAnon adherents that she’s the secret ruler of Canada

    Romana Didulo? I’m telling you, again, comrades, QAnon just has to be a huge practical joke. It cannot be anything else.

    nk (1d9030)

  66. How far down that Twitter feed do I need to go to get to the seditious comments?

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/27/2021 @ 5:56 pm

    I expected nothing less from you…

    Dana (174549)

  67. Red-baiting? Or just recounting well-known facts:

    QAnon’s conspiracy theories have been amplified by Russian state-backed troll accounts on social media,[20] as well as Russian state-backed traditional media[14][21]

    frosty – If you think those conclusions are false, provide some evidence, with links so we can all examine it.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  68. #70 nk – According to the article, she has “over 70,000 followers on Telegram”. Let us suppose that 10 percent believe what she is saying, and that ten percent of those decide they should act on those beliefs. That still leaves 70 people who might start trying to arrest, or even kill, vaccinators.

    That’s enough so that the FBI and the Canadian Mounties should not treat her followers as a “joke”.

    Even though it sounds like one.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  69. Meanwhile, in the almost year and a half since the idea of the “BREATE Act” was raised, it has still not even been introduced to congress.

    Davethulhu (67c626) — 11/27/2021 @ 6:16 pm

    Probably because no society with an ounce of self-preservation left would be dumb enough to empty all of its prisons without declaring the beginning of the Road War. Particularly when it came from the poison pen of an America-despising Marxist like Tlaib.

    Factory Working Orphan (490897)

  70. These new restrictions will take effect on November 29

    Dr. Fauci didn’t want them to take effect sooner. They do not apply to U.S. citizens or permanent residents (unlike the case in the UK where they apply to everyone) but they do apply to airline flights.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  71. Dana (174549) — 11/27/2021 @ 6:23 pm

    I read far enough to get to Cenk Uygur’s take. So we’re doing the whole thing where unfavorable political rhetoric is (flips through list) seditious.

    frosty (f27e97)

  72. This New York Times article, “Covid Efforts Hindered By Cuomo, Doctor Says”, leads to two conclusions: That “mainstream” reporters were badly fooled by the former New York governor, and that Cuomo made mistakes that cost lives, and have some parallels with the mistakes Trump was making at the same time.

    I think the Times (and other news organizations) should look hard at how and why they were fooled — and I think those who believed Cuomo — or Trump — should look hard at how and why they were fooled.

    (I assume the article is behind their paywall, but haven’t checked. It’s in the November 23rd issue, which you should be able to find in almost any library.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  73. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/27/2021 @ 6:28 pm

    Why would I disagree with you? That’d be like disagreeing with Adam Schiff when he said he had direct evidence regarding Russia.

    frosty (f27e97)

  74. https://nypost.com/2021/11/27/omicron-variant-symptoms-unusual-but-mild-says-south-african-doctor/

    That’s good PR in more ways than one for Xi. Natural viruses, as opposed to lab-grown bioweapons, do tend to mutate down.

    nk (1d9030)

  75. @77 the times wasn’t fooled by cuomo, Jim Miller

    cuomo developed a metoo problem, making all the interference the times ran for him on covid suddenly pointless

    JF (5d04c8)

  76. #78 Or disagreeing with the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report, produced by a committee chaired by Republicans Richard Burr and Marco Rubio.

    (Would someone kind person find the Monty Python “black knight” sketch for frosty?)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  77. Lara Trump claims rising turkey prices is part of a left-wing plot to destroy Thanksgiving
    …….
    Trump appeared on Fox News’ “Hannity” show on Wednesday to talk about inflation. Other guests blamed the Biden administration for rising prices, and pointed to “the left.”

    Trump noted the rising costs of many items, and pointed to turkey prices as part of a plot to “transform” the US.

    She said: “So it might seem a little funny and a little ridiculous. ‘Oh, don’t have a turkey, then people won’t come over.’ Last year, remember, they didn’t want us to get together, so I guess we’re lucky they’re letting us have Thanksgiving this year.”
    ……..
    “At really, the core of this, they want to divide Americans up,” she said.

    She continued: “They don’t want us to have any common ground. They don’t want us to have any shared traditions like Thanksgiving.”
    ………
    Video at link.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  78. #80 JF – May I suggest you review Hanlon’s razor?

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  79. JM @77-

    Apparently the NYT changed the article title (unpaywalled):

    Doctor Who Swabbed Cuomo Describes a Health Department in Shambles

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  80. #84 Rip – Thanks. As you probably noticed, the replacement headline doesn’t blame Cuomo. I would say that, unless the body has been changed substantially, the new headline is less accurate.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  81. @82 yeah Rip, there’s no left wing plot to get rid of thanksgiving

    she’s so crazy, she probably thinks there’s a left wing plot to get rid of columbus day

    putin’s trolls have obviously gotten to her

    JF (5d04c8)

  82. https://twitter.com/macfarlanenews?s=21

    Scott MacFarlane has been doing some good reporting the Jan 6 cases for anyone that’s interested.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  83. Pence has the longest shot. The true believers won’t forgive him for not helping steal the election.

    Time123 (0ef19f) — 11/27/2021 @ 5:41 pm

    I would say #9 and #2 are the only ones that have a chance if #1 doesn’t run. The rest would never have a chance in today’s Republican primary. The article gave honorable mentions to Rick Scott, Kristi L. Noem, Josh Hawley, Glenn Youngkin, Liz Cheney, Larry Hogan, and Tom Cotton, none of which have a national following.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  84. Anti-vax Wayne County Republican is in ICU with COVID-19
    ………
    William Hartmann, former vice-chairman of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, has been on a ventilator since about Nov. 6, according to his sister Elizabeth Hartmann.
    ……..
    Hartmann, who refused to certify the county’s election in November 2020 after Joe Biden won, downplayed the coronavirus in a February 2020 Facebook post and questioned “all the hullabaloo in the media about” COVID-19. He suggested it was “about the money.”

    In the months since then, he has criticized the vaccine and compared government COVID-19 efforts to Nazi Germany.
    ……..
    It’s unclear whether Hartmann is vaccinated, and in a recent Facebook post he falsely suggested it was a violation of his First and Fifth Amendment rights to be forced to divulge his vaccination status.
    ………
    ……… As of last week, Michigan leads the nation in COVID-19 cases.

    Of the 1,423 COVID-19 hospitalizations between Oct. 7 and Nov. 5, 72% are unvaccinated residents, according to the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services. During the same time period, 76% of the 622 people who died have from COVID-19 were unvaccinated.
    ……….
    Sad .

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  85. There absolutely is a left wing plot to get rid of Thanksgiving but that doesn’t mean that higher turkey prices as a left wing tactic to accomplish that goal is not turkey fodder mouthed by a turkey for turkeys.

    nk (1d9030)

  86. @89 Rip, no covid update on kristy swanson?

    we never saw a euphoric update from you, so i guess she pulled through

    JF (5d04c8)

  87. Cert. Denied In Challenge To Oregon’s Limits On Parochial Schools
    The U.S, Supreme Court …….denied review in Horizon Christian School v. Brown, (Docket No. 21-567, certiorari denied 11/15/2021). In the case, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in an Aug. 2 opinion (full text) affirmed the denial of a preliminary injunction against Oregon’s previous COVID-19 restrictions on in-person schooling. The suit was brought by parents of students who attend religious schools. ……

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  88. @89 Rip, no covid update on kristy swanson? ……

    It’s been only 3 weeks since she was reported to be hospitalized with COVID, (I had to look her up who she was, not a fan of Buffy) so there is still time. …..

    Seriously, I am not euphoric over anti-vax politicians or others who contract COVID, I consider it an avoidable tragedy. Vaccines may not prevent contracting the virus, but they can certainly reduce the need for hospitalization.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  89. Supreme Court halts citizen-led grand juries to probe governor
    The New Mexico Supreme Court has granted Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham’s request to halt at least three attempts to convene citizen-led grand juries for the purpose of investigating the governor’s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.
    ………
    New Mexico is one of just a few states that allows for citizen grand jury proceedings, which under the state Constitution require a certain number of voter signatures be provided in order for a judge to convene such a grand jury.
    ………
    The Supreme Court’s ruling to put the petitions for citizen-led grand juries on ice came the same week the court sided with a bipartisan group of legislators who challenged Lujan Grisham’s authority to unilaterally spend roughly $1.7 billion in federal relief funds.

    Before that ruling, the state’s highest court had upheld the legality of Lujan Grisham’s pandemic-related actions in several other cases over the past two years, including a challenge over barring indoor restaurant dining.
    ………
    In addition, the alleged crimes of “malfeasance in office, misfeasance in office, violation of oath of office and maladministration” are not backed up by evidence or supported by previous court rulings, the Governor’s Office argued.

    “While the citizens filing the petitions may disagree with the governor’s approach to the pandemic, none of these allegations even remotely demonstrate that she has committed any crime,” (governor’s general counsel Holly) Agajanian said in the court filing. “To the contrary, every court that has heard a challenge to the governor’s pandemic response has upheld the measures as constitutional and proper.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  90. @93 you were fascinated with buffy when she had covid, but forgot about her only cuz she recovered

    Sad.

    JF (5d04c8)

  91. https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/583018-poll-harris-michelle-obama-lead-for-2024-if-biden-doesnt-run

    Since we are posting polls about prospective presidential candidates, here’s who the left is favoring:

    The poll found Harris in the lead among likely candidates, with 13 percent of respondents supporting her. Michelle Obama came in second at 10 percent.

    All other candidates listed received 5 percent or less support, with most voters surveyed still unsure of who they would back if Biden chose not run.

    Other candidates in the poll included 2020 presidential hopefuls Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Michael Bloomberg, Andrew Yang and Pete Buttigieg.

    Sounds so appetizing, doesn’t it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  92. “I would say #9 and #2 are the only ones that have a chance if #1 doesn’t run.”

    I think Haley has positioned herself in the fertile middle where she’s not burned her Trumpista bridges while also not fully prostrating herself before the orange calf. She’s not knee-deep in Covid mask/unmask politics like #9 and #2….which probably makes her a bit more saleable to the nation at large and broader media. She has governor bona fides….got some UN international experience….and still has time to craft an engaging, coherent, right-of-center message. I suspect she will need either #9 or #2 on the ticket…..as I doubt a Mike Lee or a Ben Sasse draw enough enthusiasm and neither secures key battleground states or constituencies (Haley/DeSantis would even likely win over the cynical Dispatch crowd). It’s still a longshot for her to build viability in the Trump apocalypse….and I see no reason why the Donald would go gently into the night….absent a Big Mac Heart Attack….or the takeoff of Trump TV and the grift rising to new stratospheric heights. I still eagerly, though naively, wait for the pulse of the real GOP to restart and overtake the current walking dead cadaver…and actually push for something better than Trump. I hear embers starting to crackle….but it’s still too early to make much of it yet….I’m counting on people wanting new drama and not just re-runs of All in the Trump Family….hey, I can dream….

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  93. @58.

    10. Mike Pompeo: The significant weight loss suggests either an illness or a run for something. But not POTUS.

    9. Greg Abbott: Bush killed any chance of a Texan as POTUS for the next 20 years. Can’t even keep the heat and lights on there.

    8. Chris Christie: A health hazard. And there’s enough audio and video of this guy barking at New Jerseyites, BS-ing over Bridgegate and such- plus he had a chance to grab the brass ring a few cycles ago- and passed declaring he ‘wasn’t ready.’ Not any more ready now. And Trump knew how to use him and ice him out. No second chances.

    7. Donald Trump Jr.: JFK Jr., who wasn’t much brighter, has a better chance– and he’s dead. No way.

    6. Ted Cruz: Not a chance times 10 to the 23rd power. Aside from nobody liking him, he’s “a man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience.” Ask his wife and father. Or the bellhops in Cancun.

    5. Mike Pence: A glass of water has a better chance.

    4. Tim Scott: Potential- but a box already checked. A woman POTUS comes next.

    3. Nikki Haley: She’s my gal. A smart filly who knows how to read the pack and when to break out and lead a run for the roses– and it’s not early on or in the first or second turn. She’s a good $2 bet for the #2 spot.

    2. Ron DeSantis: Already Trump-Lite; too much press; way too soon. The media will tire of him before he actually tries a run. But he’ll angle for the #2 spot if The Donald launches.

    1. Donald Trump: The showman will run. His best campaigners without even announcing so far: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Best piece of luck so far- Twitter cutting him off.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  94. Nonetheless, it is reasonably clear by now that states that followed better policies have — on the average — had better outcomes, so far.

    No, it is not. Not at all. It seems almost random. Post hoc, ergo procter hoc is a fallacy.

    New Mexico did everything “right” on the Fauci scale, yet has had poor results because a sizable part of the population is the sovereign Navajo nation and they did not listen.

    Alaska did very well even though not one person in Alaska gives a damn about what the government thinks. But being snowed in all winter slows the spread.

    Divine the relationships you want, but it’s like finding canals on Mars.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. I like those space pens, Jim Miller. Thanks.

    mg (8cbc69)

  96. Kevin, what did you think of The data from the market watch link?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  97. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/11/who_nu.html

    The Indian Princess – what a great line.

    mg (8cbc69)

  98. 1. Thomas Sowell
    2. Clarence Thomas
    3. Dave
    that is all

    mg (8cbc69)

  99. Or disagreeing with the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report, produced by a committee chaired by Republicans Richard Burr and Marco Rubio.

    Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/27/2021 @ 7:40 pm

    The real question is, have all of the intelligence agencies affirmed it?

    You’d have more luck with the Russia stuff if a) it wasn’t overused and b) the people pushing it weren’t so obviously ignoring anything China was doing. You’d have any luck with the qanon stuff if it wasn’t something that only comes up as a deflection.

    We have to avoid Xi as a variant name because we can’t offend China but Russia is backing a dangerous conspiracy theory I only ever hear about when NeverTrump complains about it. That checks out and is something I’m really worried about.

    frosty (f27e97)

  100. 7. Donald Trump Jr.: JFK Jr., who wasn’t much brighter, has a better chance– and he’s dead. No way

    Not according to Qanon.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  101. Re: Darling Nikki:

    She has flipped flopped like a dying fish so many times regarding Donald Trump that even he recognizes it.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  102. In addition the most rabid MAGAWorld supporters don’t like Darling Nikki for replacing the SC flag and criticizing Trump. A sample.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  103. Shorter frosty: “no, I have no response to the senate report.”

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  104. There was someone who had a name that was almost “Google”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googie_Withers

    Georgette Lizette Withers, CBE, AO (12 March 1917 – 15 July 2011), known professionally as Googie Withers, was an English entertainer who was a dancer and …

    Years active: 1929–1996

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  105. “She has flipped flopped like a dying fish”

    Look at Trump’s approval ratings among the GOP and his continued unquestioned media support. Which of Trump’s fiercest critics has any nationwide traction? Liz Cheney will have a hard time keeping her seat, let alone mounting a plausible nationwide insurgency. Because you want Haley to be a consistent and an unambiguous critic….doesn’t mean that that is the wisest political decision….especially three years out. If the choice is Trump, a Trump wanna-be, someone who has at least sounded critical at times, or a fierce critic with zero support from the base….I think I know which direction seems the most promising. Yes, she’s too deferential…at this point…but the only other plausible option….again at this point….is to splinter off a 3rd party to siphon off 5% of the vote from Trump and assure another DEM term in the White House. That seems Pyrrhic. This is like turning a huge oil tanker….the steering movements will need to be small and patient. Haley would be a move in the right direction. She could appeal to Trump supporters who in the back of their minds want to avoid 4 more years of narcissistic drama. It’s early….step one is to survive the purge….

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  106. She (Haley) could appeal to Trump supporters who in the back of their minds want to avoid 4 more years of narcissistic drama.

    Those voters are few and far between. For the typical Trump rally goer “ narcissistic drama” is a feature, not a bug. They thrive on Trump adulation.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  107. Shorter frosty: “no, I have no response to the senate report.”

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/28/2021 @ 6:23 am

    Shorter Time123: you’re a liar show me the evidence, is shown the evidence, wash rinse repeat, is shown more evidence, has no response.

    If you believe that qanon is a big deal I think that’s just more evidence that it’s a media tool to deflect and distract.

    frosty (f27e97)

  108. AJ, the reasons you list Haley as a good choice are reasons she’ll struggle in the primary.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  109. Frosty, my response was that people could judge your evidence for themselves. I didn’t think it needed additional explanation.

    Jim wasn’t talking about Qanon. Did you have a point to make about that?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  110. @115, you mean the people pushing that deranged conspiracy theory are knowingly conning MAGA rubes?!? What a shock. Next you’ll tell me they know their claims about Trump really winning the election are lies.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  111. 105, you might have to convince male Dana from the other Commonwealth, who insists on white property owning males for the highest office in land…and does justice Thomas even have a permanent address given his love of the RV life?

    urbanleftbehind (8355ba)

  112. To be clear, I’m not saying all MAGA supporters are Rubes, but the subset sending money to Q adherents like Flynn are.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  113. They’re just realizing that about QAnon? I always thought it was a way to get good seats for a clear shot

    urbanleftbehind (8355ba)

  114. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/28/2021 @ 7:21 am

    Next I’ll be telling you again that BLM, and their enablers, know their claims are lies.

    Jim wasn’t talking about Qanon.

    Jim made a comment about qanon and you’re claiming he wasn’t talking about qanon? I think I explained my point and you helped me make it.

    You should stick with trying to convince us that the SUV that drove itself through a parade had nothing to do with BLM. I think there might be some people eager to agree with you.

    frosty (f27e97)

  115. Here’s another clothing brand that makes their cotton products in the United States. Their shirts run a little small.

    https://www.allamericanclothing.com/pages/about-us

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  116. I replied to you comment @106, which was in reply to Jin’s comment at 7:40 about the senate report on Russian interference. Does that clear the context up for you?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  117. “Those voters are few and far between”

    I’m not so sure. I know enough Trump supporters and most detest the tweets and his ham-handedness. They like the combative attitude and message….and that’s why I don’t think Haley can or should go full anti-Trump. She’s setting up the following framing: he [Trump] can run if he wants, but I’m the better candidate…because I won’t make his mistakes….with the implication being that those mistakes caused him to lose to Joe Biden…..and then lose the Senate. Trump’s high negatives will always make him a risky candidate….will the GOP faithful countenance another existential loss?

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  118. mg – I should mention something I just learned about Fisher’s space pens: They vary their offerings to meet seasonal demand. So, right now, for instance, they are selling pens with dreidels and menorahs. In a week or so, I expect they will have more Christmas pens, and next May or June, graduation pens, and so on.

    (And if you have a young relative who isn’t as good as he ought to be at writing thank-you letters, you could include some stationery with the pen. Think about that carefully, before you do it, of course.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  119. For those more interested in this subject than I am, here’s Lawfare’s extensive discussion of the report, “A Collusion Reading Diary: What Did the Senate Intelligence Committee Find?”

    Tiny sample from the conclusion:

    2. The Trump campaign was run for a time by a man with an ongoing business relationship with a Russian intelligence operative, to whom he gave proprietary internal polling data.
    3. The Trump campaign did not discourage Russian activity on its behalf. In fact, it sought repeatedly to coordinate its messaging around WikiLeaks releases of information. The campaign, and Trump personally, sought to contact WikiLeaks to receive information in advance about releases and may well have succeeded.

    Reminder: There is a reason WikiLeaks is nicknamed “Russoleaks”. And it isn’t because they publish anything that would damage “Czar” Putin.

    (For the record: I am far more interested in what “Czar” Putin and his gang are doing to undermine the United States now, than what happened in the 2016 campaign.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  120. Can Haley both keep 90%+ of the base AND flip “her people”, which for sake of argument I’ll define as subcontinent Asian (not yellow, not MENA) from roughly 75 D/25 R in the 2020 election to 80 R/20 D? Thats probably the only number that might matter to the national GOP.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  121. Nancy Mace says that people should get Covid instead of a vaccine because “natural immunity” is better.

    IOW, getting Covid will immunize you from the dangers of … Covid. Which isn’t really that bad, but you should try to get the superior “natural” immunity instead of the inferior pharmaceutical immunity because … you really don’t want to get Covid?

    Has anybody figured out the logic of the “natural immunity is better anyway” crowd? Do they think it’s more of an all-purpose immunity against any more dangerous variants? Like the ones that some people think the Democrats will release every October just to influence elections?

    Radegunda (0d2e22)

  122. Canuckistan has its own version of Lizzie Warren.

    A Canadian medical researcher who rose to become the nation’s top voice on indigenous health has been ousted from her government job and her university professorship — after suspicious colleagues investigated her increasingly fanciful claims of Native American heritage and learned she was a fraud.

    Carrie Bourassa, a public health expert who served as scientific director of the Canadian Institutes of Health Research’s Institute of Indigenous Peoples’ Health, was suspended on Nov. 1, five days after the state-owned Canadian Broadcasting Corporation published a lengthy expose on her background.

    Far from being a member of the Métis nation, as she had long claimed, a laborious trace of Bourassa’s family tree revealed that her supposedly indigenous ancestors were in fact immigrant farmers who hailed from Russia, Poland, and Czechoslovakia.

    She didn’t try to pull a Rachel Dolezal and say that she identifies as a Native American.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  123. Does that clear the context up for you?

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/28/2021 @ 7:52 am

    Not really. I think the chain is:

    @106 -> @81 -> @78 -> @72 -> @69 -> @63

    @63 is Jim commenting on qanon. Why are you claiming Jim wasn’t talking about qanon?

    frosty (f27e97)

  124. While I am mentioning presents, I should add that most serious American adults could find a book they like by John McWhorter.

    I have two of his books, “Losing the Race” and “Our Magnificent Bastard Language”, and learned from both. The first may be a bit dated, but I see he has come back to the subject in more recent books.

    (Why do I link to Barnes and Noble, rather than Amazon? When Amazon banned “When Harry Becomes Sally”, I stopped buying books from Bezos and company. And immediately bought a copy of the book from Barnes and Noble.

    McWhorter is an interesting man.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  125. 83 to 106 seemed like a switch to Russia. But, maybe I was mistaken. Carry on with your Qanon stuff.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  126. #130 Paul – I have been mulling over this thought recently: When I was young, someone “passing” was almost always a light-skinned black person deciding to pose as white. Now, judging only by the cases that become public, the reverse seems more common: whites posing as blacks or Native Americans.

    (Going from white to black was so unusual back then, that it was the subject of a famous book. I seem to recall reading parts of it.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  127. (For the record: I am far more interested in what “Czar” Putin and his gang are doing to undermine the United States now, than what happened in the 2016 campaign.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/28/2021 @ 8:38 am

    That’s good news. I’m looking forward to a deep analysis of how the Russians are controlling the mid-terms and 2024. That’s a never ending gift.

    Luckily Biden and his crack team are on it. I heard he gave the task to KH. So we’re safe.

    frosty (f27e97)

  128. This story from NC is a good example of how a good policy idea; increased transparency on police use of force, gets turned into a bad idea in execution.

    It orders the creation of a database but not only restricts it from public access it forbids agency that want to provide access to their information from doing so.

    That push took on new energy in the wake of George Floyd’s murder by a police officer last year. Lawmakers responded with reforms, including a new database tracking instances when an officer’s certification is revoked or suspended. That information will be public, but the budget language restricts release of other information.

    Not only are local governments and others forbidden from cataloguing critical incidents publicly, they also can’t create a database of what the budget refers to as “disciplinary actions taken against law enforcement officers,” which may not always lead to certification issues.

    The new language ensures that nobody in the government—a sheriff interested in transparency, for instance—publicizes any of this information in a separate database.

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant and while there is some good in NC actions it’s very limited and could have been much much better.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  129. #129 Radegunda – Two possibilities: First, Mace may be one of those people who think “natural” is always better than artificial. Second, Mace may be one of those people who look for ways to oppose the policies of Biden and company. The two possibilities aren’t exclusive, of course.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  130. #135 “I heard he gave the task to KH.” More evidence that you shouldn’t believe everything you hear. Actually, he gave the most difficult part of the task to Republican Kim Wyman.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  131. 129,

    In my experience, family members who believe natural immunity is better also believe that Covid is just the flu with a different name. And that even after having gotten Covid-and with pretty bad symptoms! Go figure. It seems to be politically driven as every one of them are Trump supporters. Also, they believe that *everything* Biden does is going to be bad/wrong/destructive/evil. They shun Covid vaccines because they claim they are not fully approved by the FDA. And yet they think monoclonal antibodies treatment is the greatest thing since sliced bread even though it’s being used only on an emergency-use basis.

    As for Mace, she is plai

    Dana (174549)

  132. I had to look her up who she was, not a fan of Buffy

    She was a fake Buffy. No one is a fan of that Buffy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  133. We have to avoid Xi as a variant name because we can’t offend China but Russia is backing a dangerous conspiracy theory I only ever hear about when NeverTrump complains about it. That checks out and is something I’m really worried about.

    If “Don” was a Greek letter we would have used it. Probably twice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  134. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/28/2021 @ 9:08 am

    So, let’s summarize; you, jim, and ‘thulhu wanted to talk about qanon. That didn’t work out like you wanted. You think jim tried the ol’ jim miller bait and switch. I didn’t go for it. You’re confused and upset. Now it’s something I wanted to talk about. That about the long and short of it?

    frosty (939a75)

  135. Interesting book:

    Counter Wokecraft: A Field Manual for Combatting the Woke in the University and Beyond

    The Woke ideology is colonizing Western Civilization. This ideology views the world through a Marxist-inspired lens of “systemic power dynamics” that divides us between the “privileged” and the “oppressed.” This colonization has successfully captured many of our noblest and most vital institutions through time-tested strategies and tactics. People from almost every sector of life are concerned about this capture but feel paralyzed and helpless as this ideology activates itself and wields its power. The good news is that Woke tactics are predictable and can be countered. This guide is an invaluable contribution to understanding, recognizing, and ultimately countering “Wokecraft” wherever it appears. While the guide is tailored to the university, its lessons are applicable throughout government, K-12 education, the private sector, churches, and even formal and informal affinity groups. This makes the guide a much-needed contribution as people seek to push back against the destructive Woke ideology.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  136. It’s not that QAnon is a bogeyman — it is — but that some public officials seem to wrap themselves in that kind of nonsense. This gives the bogeyman life.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  137. 9. Greg Abbott: Bush killed any chance of a Texan as POTUS for the next 20 years. Can’t even keep the heat and lights on there.

    Bush is looking better every day.

    BTW, what happens if Trump cannot run (dead, ill, or in prison)?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  138. Sens. Baldwin and Johnson: Outside Groups Attempting to Exploit Tragedy in Waukesha Must Cease and Desist; Respect Local Authorities

    On Saturday, U.S. Senators Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) and Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) issued the following statement:

    It has come to our attention that outside individuals or groups may attempt to exploit the tragedy that occurred last Sunday in Waukesha for their own political purposes. As the U.S. Senators representing Wisconsin, one from each political party, we are asking anyone considering such action to cease and desist.
    ……….
    We ask everyone to demonstrate their interest and concern by praying for the victims, their families, and the entire community of Waukesha……..
    ########
    Bipartisanship at its best.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  139. Kevin @ 144, that’s an excellent observation.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  140. BTW, what happens if Trump cannot run (dead, ill, or in prison)?

    Don Jr., baby!

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  141. Frosty, neither confused nor upset. You just haven’t had anything to say about Qanon in the last however many comments that I felt like responding to. Did I miss a comment from you that had new information like Daves link to the Flynn tape? Or a novel insight into the subject like Kevins?

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  142. If “Don” was a Greek letter we would have used it. Probably twice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/28/2021 @ 10:08 am

    We’ve had the D variant. I’m expecting the Tau variant soon.

    frosty (d96384)

  143. “Being Republican” is the top predictor of “refuses vaccination”

    True only if the question is limited to politics.

    Over all, the top predictor is African-American followed by Hispanic

    steveg (e81d76)

  144. This map uses the Columbia data model which has been the most accurate so far (according to mathematica)
    https://columbia.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ade6ba85450c4325a12a5b9c09ba796c

    Here is another site where you can look up restaurant closures by state.
    https://statepolicies.com/data/graphs/closures-reopening/?st=CA&racial=0&cd=deaths

    If I look at FLA first, I go “ha!. look at that spike when they reopened everything” true the nation as a whole spiked that time period, but FLA was huge.

    But if I go to CA, I notice that CA had a huge spike earlier than FLA even with everything shut down and masked up.

    Death rate per 100,000 by state is a great measure of deaths per 100,000 by state.
    Population make up by race, age etc need to be factored in.
    Florida has 21% of its people being over 65. CA is at 15%
    Florida has 17% African American (a very vaccine relectant population) CA 6%

    DeSantis and Abbott clearly decided that opening up was important to the overall health of the 99%
    “Governor Ron DeSantis announced that Florida’s visitation from July to September 2021 exceeded 2019’s visitation over the same period for the first time since 2020.”
    ““Without mandates or lockdowns, COVID-19 cases in Florida have decreased 90% since August,” said Governor Ron DeSantis. “In addition to cases, hospitalizations have plummeted in our state. This has been accomplished by making monoclonal antibody treatments and vaccines widely available throughout our state while protecting Floridians from government overreach.””

    Newsom decided to put the 1% above the 99%. CA has less deaths per 100,000 but also screwed up the Asian supply chain into the USA, murder up, suicide up, theft up, business closing up, people needing financial assistance up, elderly cut off from grandchildren up, quality of life down, inflation up, homelessness up

    steveg (e81d76)

  145. Don Jr., baby!

    Evita Ivanka!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  146. “True only if the question is limited to politics.

    Over all, the top predictor is African-American followed by Hispanic”

    If you look at the chart within the link I posted, you’ll see that this isn’t true.

    “Hispanic Adults” have a vaccination rate of 73%, and a refusal rate of 9%
    “Black Adults” have a vaccination rate of 70% and a refusal rate of 11%
    “Republicans” have a vaccination rate of 58% and a refusal rate of 23%

    The interesting statistic to me was “Uninsured under 65” which has a vaccination rate of 54%

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  147. Idle calculation:

    Let’s say that the California high-speed rail project actually is completed from LA to SF. Optimistically, the final cost is “only” $100 billion. How long before the cost is recovered?

    1. Assume that a one-way ticket costs $100 over the cost of operation, or a net income of $100/seat/trip. This brings the project cost down to 1 billion one-way tickets.

    2. Assume that each train has 1 thousand seats and that they are all filled each trip with paying customers. This brings the cost down to 1 million train-trips.

    3. Assume that there are 50 trips each way every day. This means that it will take 10,000 days to recover the cost. 10,000 days are about 28 years.

    But wait. This also means that the project will have about 3% ROI each year, which is not enough to pay the INTEREST on the project cost.

    So, with wildly optimistic assumptions (100,000 paying passengers a day and no empty seats), the project will NEVER EVER make a dent on the expended capital.

    The actual results will be more like 100 times as bad (5 trips each way per day with many seats unfilled on smaller trains).

    A monument to the hubris on one man.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  148. Thanks, Jim Miller. My oldest daughter will love these pens. And the stationery.

    mg (8cbc69)

  149. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/28/2021 @ 12:48 pm

    It’s impressive to watch money just wasted. I was having a similar conversation as this with a friend about different things going on in China but the math kept getting in the way.

    I was also trying to explain the idea of needing more 20 and 30 yo. That was a little easier, me: soon they’ll need more people in this age demo, them: that’s easy they’ll just tell people to have more babies, me: it’ll still take them 20 years to come online and they’ll need them a lot sooner.

    frosty (f27e97)

  150. Mike Lindell Blames a Vast GOP Conspiracy for His Supreme Court Failure
    MyPillow chief and 2020 dead-ender Mike Lindell has long promised that he would file an election-fraud complaint with the Supreme Court on Tuesday morning. But now he claims to have missed that goal because he was silenced by Republican National Committee Chairperson Ronna McDaniel.
    ……..
    “How dare the RNC try and stop this case from getting to the Supreme Court. Shame on you, RNC! You are worse than Fox [News] now!” he stated, referencing his claims that the cable giant has silenced him. “You can’t tell me why Ronna McDaniel, the head of the RNC, made a statement saying Biden won three days before this Supreme Court complaint was supposed to go to the Supreme Court.”

    “What about the timing of that, America!” he continued. “Why would she say that at that moment in time? She didn’t have to say that. What, is she trying to get more donor money? Is she trying to get donor money from Democrats? She is as RINO as they come!” McDaniel did not immediately respond to The Daily Beast’s request for comment.
    …….
    “We do have a copy of the complaint,” which Lindell said he would simply release to the public on Thanksgiving Day if it ends up not being filed due to a lack of signatures. “Worst-case scenario, let’s say, a lot of them want to delay signing it,” he added, under the impression his fervent supporters would then mount local pressure campaigns against their own state attorneys general after seeing the contents of his filing.
    ………
    And reached for comment by The Daily Beast about his non-existent Supreme Court filing and why it hasn’t been made public, the pillow mogul fumed.

    “Are you out of your mind?” Lindell shouted. “You call me again, I am suing you!”
    ##########
    Lindell’s complaint.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  151. “6. Ted Cruz: Not a chance times 10 to the 23rd power. Aside from nobody liking him, he’s “a man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience.” Ask his wife and father. Or the bellhops in Cancun.”

    On the other hand, have you considered… this: https://i.imgur.com/a9SeX1P.jpg

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  152. @145. Bush is looking better every day.

    Until he opens his mouth, Kev:

    George W. Bush’s dreadful 9/11 speech

    https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/george-w-bushs-dreadful-9-180000692.html

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  153. BTW, what happens if Trump cannot run (dead, ill, or in prison)?

    And what happens if Biden cannot run (dead, ill, or incapacitated)?

    Putin smiles, of course.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  154. #161 It’s funny, DCSCA, I can remember when I respected Byron York.

    It is sad to see how York has changed.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  155. I think Lindell believes the crazy stuff he says, but there’s a chance that all this is to help his defense in the Dominion defamation case.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  156. davethulhu
    Your response “If you look at the chart within the link I posted, you’ll see that this isn’t true.”

    I read the chart at the link. Your link is to a poll that is at odds with the CDC. As of 11-24-2021
    CDC says 73% of fully vaccinated people have reported their race and ethnicity

    https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-COVID-Vaccine&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7oyNBhDiARIsADtGRZaa_1ETt6ZgknTAqY8qlAkysD7DwNaC0Va9VfpakD-ktDxHRfb8C8AaAjQTEALw_wcB

    The CDC numbers still have fully vaxxed reporting African Americans at under 40%
    But this poll has those numbers jumping to 70%?

    Not saying you personally are off, but something is and in my mind the poll is off. I base that thought on the 27% who are fully vaxxed but decline to state race not being a big enough sample to move the needle to 70% vax rate amongst African Americans claimed by KFF poll

    steveg (e81d76)

  157. #145 – Kevin, the latest poll I could find in a quick search on George W. Bush is this one from 2018:

    George W. Bush has turned his unpopularity upside down.

    Six in 10 Americans, 61%, say they now have a favorable view of the 43rd President of the United States in the latest CNN poll conducted by SSRS, nearly double the 33% who gave him a favorable mark when he left the White House in January 2009.
    . . .
    In fact, Bush holds a majority favorable rating among every demographic group but liberals — including strong Democratic groups like nonwhites and people under 35 years old.

    I predict that he will go still higher, as Biden continues to fumble. And as Trump’s legal troubles get more and more coverage.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  158. I read the chart at the link. Your link is to a poll that is at odds with the CDC.

    One difference is that KFF measures as a percent of the adult population and CDC measures as a percent of the entire population.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  159. The difference in vaccination rates may be due to missing data, as this Washington Post article suggests.

    They first give a table of state (and territories) with an overall vaccination rate of 59.1 percent.

    Paging down, you will find their estimates for different ethnic groups:

    These charts show the percent of the population in each racial or ethnic group that has received a vaccine so far. Alaskan Native and Native American populations have a higher rate of vaccination, which tribal leaders have attributed to their sovereignty and emphasis on prioritizing elders and their communities. Because so much race information is missing, vaccine rates for each group is understated.

    (Emphasis added.)
    And the highest level for any group is 42 percent (!) for Native Americans and Alaskan Natives, and Hispanics.

    Because of that missing data, for now polls probably give us a more accurate way to compare vaccination rates between groups, than CDC numbers

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  160. Marilyn vos Savant says that fear of needles may be scaring people away from vaccinations. She says up to 25 percent of people have that fear — and the TV news programs have been showing injections, endlessly, often with people wincing.

    (From today’s “Parade” supplement.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  161. 155. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/28/2021 @ 12:48 pm

    So, with wildly optimistic assumptions (100,000 paying passengers a day and no empty seats), the project will NEVER EVER make a dent on the expended capital.

    You’re not taking into account inflation.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  162. @163. It’s the country that has changed, Jim. The wisest thing Dubya can do for his rep is keep his mouth shut rather than open it up for critique– “and remove all doubt.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  163. “The CDC numbers still have fully vaxxed reporting African Americans at under 40%
    But this poll has those numbers jumping to 70%?

    Not saying you personally are off, but something is and in my mind the poll is off. I base that thought on the 27% who are fully vaxxed but decline to state race not being a big enough sample to move the needle to 70% vax rate amongst African Americans claimed by KFF poll”

    Fair enough. I wasn’t aware of the big difference between this and the CDC numbers.

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  164. This page has been up, with only minor changes. for at least four and a half years, according to the Internet archive.

    It was unrealistic then, and is getting more unreal.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/death-spiral-for-cars-by-2030-you-probably-wont-own-one-93626

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  165. Jim Miller @77. Governor Andrew Cuomo was evidently making decisions for reasons which he wished to keep secret. Further I cannot say, except that he was lying many times when he gave reasons. Like why not discharge nursing home residents from hospitals to the USS Comfort or the Javits Center, which were almost not being used, instead of ordering them readmitted without the nursing homes being ermitted to do any prior testing. Cuomo said that was because such use was not par of the agreement with the federal government. But he could change the agreement! And in fact did.

    And he said the nursing homes were required to be able to take care of them, and if they needed help they could ask. Which may have been true.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  166. “This morning I was briefed by my chief medical advisor, Dr. Tony Fauci, and the members of our COVID response team, about the Omicron variant, which is spreading through Southern Africa…”

    Endle$$ booster$; perpetual control.

    “Wait, that’s good, that’s good, I like that… There’s always some joker who thinks he’s immune. What I need is something so scary it’ll clear three hundred square miles of every living Christian soul.” – “Wild Bill” [Warren Kemmerling] ‘Close Encounters Of The Third Kind’ 1977

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  167. Davethulhu – You may want to take a look at the WaPo numbers I pointed to #168

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  168. “Davethulhu – You may want to take a look at the WaPo numbers I pointed to #168”

    Yes, I appreciate that link, I just didn’t want steveg to think I was being dismissive.

    Davethulhu (67c626)

  169. “And what happens if Biden cannot run…”

    Odds are against it….Democrats know that….they also know Harris is not especially likable. They lack a deep (much of any) pool of interesting governors…..Cuomo had a clear path (prior to Covid), but we all know how that went….they also lack a truly dynamic speaker who can at minimum play the role…maybe a Deval Patrick or Cory Booker but if they had IT, I think we would have seen them take off in 2020. Last cycle we saw the final field….and it was geriatric and frightening. It’s problematic when Bloomberg looks to be the most engaging. Maybe they dust off Klobuchar…..though she might not be an optimal opponent if Trump gets the nod. God help us, but you almost have to go the route of a billionaire business person…..Mark Cuban, Oprah? Don’t get me wrong…I’m not at all advocating for THAT…but honestly, only the nuts in Congress get any attention and there’s no governor who is especially popular. It’s really the pit of politics right now…..and we did it (BOTH sides) to ourselves. Putin is an SoB, but he’s just nudging our own pitiable path….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  170. AJ – I know how you feel. I thought that John Hickenlooper was one of the best available Democrats (moderate, science degree, a variety of executive experience) in 2020, but the Democratic voters obviously disagreed.

    It is odd, to me anyway, how little Democratic voters have cared about executive experience in recent elections — when choosing a candidate for the toughest executive position in the world.

    (He does have one odd defect, for a politician, ‘prosopagnosia, commonly known as “face blindness”‘.)

    I doubt whether he would be interested, but Jim Mattis would be an attractive choice on the Republican side.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  171. So the shambolic audit of the 2020 election in Maricopa county may be over without finding a single fraudulent vote (seriously, over 2 million votes cast and they found none?!?) but there still seems to be some drama. The AZ senate is claiming Cyber Ninja is in breach of contract for not turning over documentation.

    In addition the CEO of Cyber Ninja is claiming to be over 2 million in debt for the cost of the audit.

    But it turns out that even though a variety of conspiracy-loving groups raised almost $6 million to fund the audit, that money hasn’t made its way to the Cyber Ninjas.

    This week the company’s CEO Doug Logan said that rather than making him rich, the sham Maricopa County recount left him $2 million in debt.

    That’s almost one dollar of debt for every one of the 2.1 million ballots that the Cyber Ninjas recounted during the bogus audit that was conducted over the space of five months earlier this year.

    Moseder, on his Telegram channel, recounted a conversation he had recently with Logan, claiming that the Cyber Ninjas CEO has been left in deep financial trouble as a result of the Arizona recount.

    “While many people got VERY RICH off of the AZ audit, Doug Logan is over 2 million dollars in debt, with no other means of income,” Moseder wrote. “I believe he was anticipating more audits to make up for his losses and kept being reassured, ‘don’t worry about the money, America has your back.’”

    People looking for a pretext to steal elections aren’t going to pay for fraudulent audits that don’t further the goals so I doubt he’ll get more work.

    Can’t really say I have a ton of pity for the guy. Mostly because people who get 2million in debt usually seem to end up OK but also because his statements last year made him seem like a conspiracy theorist who helped tear down faith in our democracy with claims made from ignorance, lies, and errors.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  172. Sammy – Some of Cuomo’s behavior can be explained, according to the article, by his rivalry with Bill de Blasio. You would have a better idea than I do how big a part that might play.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  173. McConaughey just punked out.

    urbanleftbehind (472c7f)

  174. It is odd, to me anyway, how little Democratic voters have cared about executive experience in recent elections

    I wonder if Republican voters these days have much more respect for executive experience. Besides seeing the whole “establishment” as a force of evil, they have a tendency to trash “knowledge and experience” as worthless because look how many mistakes have been made by people with knowledge and experience! So let’s go with “instinct” and the “fighter” who hates all the right people.

    Radegunda (31b17e)

  175. #183 Radegunda – I tend to agree with you — and I hope we both are wrong.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  176. You’re not taking into account inflation.

    No, because that doesn’t really help as the cost of borrowed money goes up, too. At some point, it is all borrowed.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  177. It was unrealistic then, and is getting more unreal.

    Eventually they’ll pass a law that says no one can own a car, if that’s what they have to do to make inevitability happen.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  178. I believe that we can end Covid by sacrificing politicians into Mauna Loa. Who’s with me?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  179. Antibody titers before and after booster doses of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines in healthy adults
    Abstract:

    Two-dose messenger RNA vaccines (BNT162b2/Pfizer and mRNA-1273/Moderna) against SARS-CoV-2 were rolled out in the US in December 2020, and provide protection against hospitalization and death from COVID-19 for at least six months. Breakthrough infections have increased with waning immunity and the spread of the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant in summer 2021, prompting approval of boosters for all adults over 18. We measured anti-receptor binding domain (RBD) IgG and surrogate virus neutralization of the interaction between SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and the human angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE2) receptor, before and after boosters in N=33 healthy adults.

    We document large antibody responses 6-10 days after booster, with antibody levels that exceed levels documented after natural infection with COVID- 19, after two doses of vaccine, or after both natural infection and vaccination. Surrogate neutralization of B.1.617.2 is high but reduced in comparison with wild-type SARS-CoV-2. These data support the use of boosters to prevent breakthrough infections and suggest that antibody-mediated immunity may last longer than after the second vaccine dose.

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  180. “Rittenhouse Should Pay for his Crimes”: ASU Students Demand the Expulsion of Kyle Rittenhouse
    ………
    Students groups like MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicanx de Aztlán), Students for Socialism, Students for Justice in Palestine and the Multicultural Solidarity Coalition are organizing a rally this week to “get murderer Kyle Rittenhouse off [the] campus.” He is not on campus since he is enrolled as an online student. However, Rittenhouse has expressed interest in in-person attendance at ASU. Students and faculty are being called to the rally to “protect students from a violent, blood-thirsty murderer.”

    In addition, ASU student Taskina Bhuiya started a Change.org petition to denounce the verdict and to call for Rittenhouse to be “held accountable for the crimes he has committed.” Without a sense of irony, the petition declares “ASU should be a safe and inclusive place for all students, which will be disrupted if Kyle Rittenhouse is allowed to attend this school.” Inclusive unless you are an acquitted individual who must be “held accountable.” Hundreds have signed the petition insisting that “Rittenhouse should pay for his crimes.”
    ………
    The fact is that Rittenhouse cannot be expelled or kept off campus due to such mob measures. He would quickly prevail in court. However, the rally and the rhetoric magnify the risk to his safety by those who demand “accountability” regardless of any verdict.
    ……….
    Rittenhouse has every right to attend ASU in person and has every right to expect that he can do so safely. If ASU cannot muster the integrity and courage to reaffirm those rights publicly, it has abandoned a core defining element for higher education. Colleges often sit in cringing silence as individual students are targeted and harassed. Students have every right to protest, but ASU must be clear and public in supporting Rittenhouse’s right to access to an education on its campuses.
    #########

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  181. “protect students from a violent, blood-thirsty murderer.”

    There are limits to how you can libel a public person.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  182. @188: Trump got vaccinated after recovering from Covid, and has had a booster since. I think we can rely on Trump’s self-interest here. If he thought it was a bad idea (for himself) he wouldn’t do it. He just wants other people to die, so that their deaths will make Biden look bad.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  183. Exchange futures prices are up overnight.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  184. “I thought that John Hickenlooper was one of the best available Democrats”

    Yeah, me too. My understanding is that he’s a bit low-energy….and moderate…opposes socialism….and talked down the senate job he now fills. He’s probably an odd fit for where the DEMs are these days. They want someone who…like Trump…..want to luxuriate on our differences and engage in the “necessary” existential ideological battles.

    But I fear like Mitch Daniels….former governor….now university president….smart and creative guys are just not good fits for the process. The job seems like 95% BS to get 5% of worthwhile stuff accomplished…maybe 5%. Oh and by the way, people will try to trash you 100% of the time. I’m not sure that a guy like Hickenlooper will ever do what the hired guns tell him is necessary….like Daniels, it’s just not in his personality. It would be nice to get back to a place where Hickenlooper would get more attention than a Schumer, an AOC, or the next liberal bomb thrower.

    It’s a shame that a moderate governor with some business sense that has interest in working across the aisle loses out to Warren, Bernie, Biden, and Bloomberg…..decisively. But it’s where we’re at….I’m sure the DEMs muse the same about John Kasich on our side….

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  185. Is every Downey a Junior? Leaving aside that

    Kevin Downey, Jr. Is a comedian and columnist. When he isn’t writing or performing on stage he is collecting surf records and perhaps practicing his mixologist skills at his tiki bar. His apartment, the Atomic Bunker, looks like it was furnished from George Jetson’s garage sale.

    “axman Paul Bunyan” did not give you a hint that what we have is the maunderings of a profoundly unserious person spreading Babe’s droppings? Paul Bunyan: Axman! Cripes!

    nk (1d9030)

  186. And since we’re already there … I agree with Kevin. Sarah Michelle Gellar is the real Buffy. Man, the way that girl could stick a stake in Dracula and then hang around and have a conversation with his dust sent shivers up my spine like Tyler Perry in a muumuu never will.

    nk (1d9030)

  187. Come and get my butter knife.

    mg (8cbc69)

  188. The gop will screw up the 2022 elections by following the chamber of commerce playbook. As if the last 6 years never happened.
    The go along hackerama will continue as planned.

    mg (8cbc69)

  189. @190, Kevin, do you think those were statements of fact? I imagine they were hyperbole, overheated rhetoric. But he was found not guilty, the college should let him attend and defend his right to do so unmolested by other students with political motivation.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  190. Rip Murdock (125f65) — 11/28/2021 @ 8:08 pm

    It would be nice if someone in the media could explain how giving a booster will help against a new variant. It’s the old vaccine and your body has already seen that. Taking a closer look at this article

    We document large antibody responses 6-10 days after booster

    isn’t saying anything about an antibody response to a new variant.

    It’s also unclear how

    suggest that antibody-mediated immunity may last longer than after the second vaccine dose

    works. Your body can make the antibodies or it can’t.

    Just having a lot of antibodies doesn’t help you if they don’t recognize the variant you’ve got.

    I would suggest that the reduction in immunity is caused by variants and sub-variants, ie changes in the virus.

    A lot of this language presumes that any vaccine is better than no vaccine. If that were true any flu vaccine would work against all flu variants or any vaccine would work against any virus. What this really sounds like is the idea that any immune response is better than none so “priming the pump” is the best way to be prepared.

    I’m also wondering why we’re not talking about new variants of the vaccine. The mRNA tech was supposed to allow for new vaccines for variants to be developed quickly.

    frosty (f27e97)

  191. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 5:09 am

    I believe the people making the statements believed them but that isn’t a material element. A defense for defamation is that the statements are true. The problem is using murder instead of kill. It would be a true statement that he’s a killer. Their statement is false on its face. The bloodthirsty part might get a pass as opinion but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    Hopefully he sues the ever mother loving pants off those organizations. These groups need to be run into the ground just like the Kx3.

    The school should shut them down for making terroristic threats. And expel the students responsible for making the threats.

    frosty (f27e97)

  192. I also suspect the travel ban for omicron is too little to late.

    I know several people who have the same symptoms as associated with omicron. They’ve been tested for the flu and covid with the usual test. Both negative, which isn’t a surprise for omicron.

    We should have a better testing system in the US and we should be doing more sequencing.

    frosty (f27e97)

  193. Students groups like MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicanx de Aztlán),

    Dumbasses, don’t change his mind and harden his stances on other issues and have him “going to Rocky Point” every weekend- in addition to Latinos not being particularly oppressed (behind Hmong, Blacks and Natives in the intersectional bingo) in the dairy state or Lake Co IL, KR used to be a big Andrew Yang fanboy prior to his brush with fame.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  194. @201, i doubt he’ll sue them for defamation so we’ll likely never get a ruling. Either way, I think people are allowed to believe a jury made the wrong decision and say so. Calling someone like KR (or OJ Simpson) a murderer isn’t necessarily defamation. “Murder” has a legal meaning, but I don’t think most people who use the term rhetorically are saying “I am aware of of the specific legal requirements for murder in the relevant jurisdiction and assert that the facts show this person meets those legal requirements.” I think most people who use the term are speaking colloquially and mean “so and so killed someone and they shouldn’t have”.

    The fact that they described him as a ‘bloodthirsty’ murderer makes me more inclined to think they’re engaging in rhetoric and making factual assertions.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  195. 194.

    Warren, Bernie, Biden, and Bloomberg

    What is Bloomberg doing lumped together with all these others.

    Yes, he’s drunk the Kool Aid on climate change and some other things, but he’s not anti-police and probably has some business sense.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  196. @203, on Tucker Carlson he said he supports BLM and made a point that he felt his race and the financial support he received helped him. But I doubt the people who feel he’s a threat are paying much attention to the details.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  197. If the kid wants a normal life, he needs to change his name and lay low. And he still may be doomed to be doxxed. Woke culture is a really awful thing.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  198. They’ve been tested for the flu and covid with the usual test. Both negative, which isn’t a surprise for omicron.

    There’s a virus called RSV that causes a URI that lasts several weeks, and can lead to pneumonia.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  199. Is It Defamatory to Call Kyle Rittenhouse — or Anyone Acquitted of Murder — a “Murderer”?
    False factual allegations about someone may well be libelous, but opinions are not. Is saying “Kyle Rittenhouse is a murderer” or “O.J. Simpson is a murderer” a factual assertion or a statement of opinion?

    It depends on whether the statement is reasonably understood as (1) implying that the speaker knows undisclosed, unpublicized facts that implicate the target (potentially actionable), or (2) expressing the speaker’s opinion about the facts that had been publicly discussed (not actionable). For instance, consider two more detailed statements:
    ………

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  200. OJ. As in Simpson. The criminal jury did not find him guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt but the civil jury did by a preponderance of the evidence. (Double entendre intended.) A suit for defamation is a can of worms the kid should not want to open. He already has trouble enough.

    But it warms the cockles of my heart on this drab and wintry Chicago morning to see so many comrades carry so much of the world on their tireless shoulders. From “concern” over the effectiveness of vaccines, that they do nothing other than denigrate on any other day, against the Omicron virus, to what sentence an ax-wielding vandal received, to what some fringe student groups at some cow college have to say about Kyle Rittenhouse.

    nk (1d9030)

  201. Students groups like MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicanx de Aztlán), Students for Socialism, Students for Justice in Palestine and the Multicultural Solidarity Coalition are organizing a rally this week to “get murderer Kyle Rittenhouse off [the] campus.” He is not on campus since he is enrolled as an online student. However, Rittenhouse has expressed interest in in-person attendance at ASU. Students and faculty are being called to the rally to “protect students from a violent, blood-thirsty murderer.”

    Back when I went to school there around 20 years ago, the “whiteness studies” garbage was making its way through the social science and liberal arts curriculums. I knew it was going to continue causing issues in the years to come because it was still considered a relatively “new” academic lens (even though the ideological underpinnings had been around for 30 years prior, and Peggy McIntosh had published her poisonous “white privilege” essay about ten years prior) that was ripe for the cultural Marxists in academia to make hay from.

    Most of these race-obsessed hammerheads were considered niche groups at the time, but now they certainly feel emboldened enough that they can harass white people and even Senators while they’re taking a leak without serious repercussions. This is the inevitable result of coddling and enabling the entitlement of the Juicebox generation, thinking “Oh, don’t worry, they’ll wake up once they reach the real world,” instead of shutting them down and telling them “no” for the first time in their lives.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  202. But it warms the cockles of my heart on this drab and wintry Chicago morning to see so many comrades carry so much of the world on their tireless shoulders. From “concern” over the effectiveness of vaccines, that they do nothing other than denigrate on any other day, against the Omicron virus, to what sentence an ax-wielding vandal received, to what some fringe student groups at some cow college have to say about Kyle Rittenhouse.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/29/2021 @ 7:28 am

    If there’s a comment that epitomizes how Trump was able to snatch the GOP out of the hands of the neocons, this one certainly is in the running for top honors.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  203. IOW, getting Covid will immunize you from the dangers of … Covid. Which isn’t really that bad, but you should try to get the superior “natural” immunity instead of the inferior pharmaceutical immunity because … you really don’t want to get Covid?

    Has anybody figured out the logic of the “natural immunity is better anyway” crowd? Do they think it’s more of an all-purpose immunity against any more dangerous variants? Like the ones that some people think the Democrats will release every October just to influence elections?
    Radegunda (0d2e22) — 11/28/2021 @ 8:50 am

    Several things get conflated here. I think a few are being done on purpose.

    I’ve never heard anyone say

    should try to get the superior “natural” immunity instead of the inferior pharmaceutical immunity because

    This is usually given as a strawman. There is a version of this I’ve heard that is put in terms of relative risk but that is a little different. Usually when people talk about natural immunity they are talking about already having had the virus and not needing a vaccine or a booster on top of that.

    Another thing that gets conflated is what it means to be better.

    The purpose of the vaccine is to give your body a head start against a pathogen that the vaccine was designed against. It is “better” against the specific markers it was designed against.

    In the case of natural immunity the body needs time to identify a pathogen and then respond. A person’s immune system may not be able to respond fast enough. However, if it does the body had access to the entire virus and should create a set of antibodies that is larger than that created by the vaccine. That set should allow the immune system to identify mutations across a more diverse set or markers. Natural immunity should be “better” across variants.

    In the case of a person that has never had COVID the original vaccine would give them protection against the alpha variant. It will provide less protection as the variants mutate away from the markers the vaccine was designed against.

    Once a person is exposed to any variant their body should develop a more diverse response. This is true even if they’ve had the vaccine.

    So, the vaccine should be expected to give a better response to a specific variant but the natural response should be better generally. This also ignores the complexity of an individuals immune response, not to mention the response of large groups.

    So, people who say they should get one instead of the other because one is better than the other are playing a little of apples and oranges. This applies to both sides.

    frosty (f27e97)

  204. @210 weather underground alum kathy boudin was convicted of murder

    academia was so repulsed, they made her professor at columbia

    i guess she murdered the right people (cops)

    her son is continuing the family tradition

    JF (e1156d)

  205. frosty (f27e97) — 11/29/2021 @ 5:25 am

    Just having a lot of antibodies doesn’t help you if they don’t recognize the variant you’ve got.

    A person usually has multiple antibodies, but the body produces a lot of what works – it is different in every person, because antibodies are churned out more or less at random, and the body will zero in on what works. That’s one argument for the booster – that there will be a greater variety of antibodies after that.

    There are actually many mutations that occur but only a few seem to be linked to greater transmisaibility, or more serious disease = faster acting infections (I think they probably have to be the same things) or greater resistance to antibodies.

    They only watch for certain specific mutations. When some specific mutation or collection of mutations seems to be becoming more common, they announce a new variant.

    I would suggest that the reduction in immunity is caused by variants and sub-variants, ie changes in the virus.

    Experience seems to show that immunity to the Wuhan variant (which is still the target of all vaccines even though the Wuhan variant has practically disappeared or been overwhelmed) carries over pretty well to all the other possible variants.

    This is because the virus, or even the spike protein alone is well over 95% the same – there are some 3,900 nucleotides in the spike protein and less than two or three dozen mutations – maybe more with time. The virus changes a little all the time, and that’s how you can get a history. There are approximately 30,000 nucleotides in all.

    A mutation may be more significant for a PCR test. The standard PCR test doesn’t completely work fr omicron (and that’s how they could do a quick and dirty test because the PCR test looks for two things and the one for the spike protein doesn’t work for omicron – maybe also delta. But listen, that would require too much boldness on the part of the CDC and others.

    Mutations are most significant for the monoclonal antibodies because they target only one or two antigens.

    A lot of this language presumes that any vaccine is better than no vaccine.

    Maybe not for the spread of the disease. A real infection produces antibodies that reside in the nose – the vaccine basically does not. I need to figure this out. It could be that mass vaccination may be better at preventing transmission of mild cases to unvaccinated persons than at preventing serious ones, but I am not sure why that might be. It could be that fewer hospitalizaions leads to relaxation of precautions. I need more facts.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  206. rosty:

    I’m also wondering why we’re not talking about new variants of the vaccine. The mRNA tech was supposed to allow for new vaccines for variants to be developed quickly.

    It does, it does, it does, but the FDA still has the same rules. The hope is that it will eventually approve the idea of quickly churning put vaccines. They were ready to do that with Delta but it is I think still in clinical trials. They could have one ready to go with Omicron in less than 100 days if they were allowed to – and they could create samples for testing in less than tow weeks, if that. But they can’t legally do what Dr. Leonard McCoy did in Star Trek.

    And nobody discusses that the obstacles re not at all scientific or even ethical.

    Maybe we should be glad things were sped up in 2020 as much as they were.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  207. So, let’s say fifty years from now, a Rittenhouse could be the Kenosha County District Attorney? America! What a country!

    nk (1d9030)

  208. But it warms the cockles

    nk (1d9030) — 11/29/2021 @ 7:28 am

    Ah, the smell of a passive-aggressive quote in the morning. It doesn’t smell so much like victory as it does a freshly fertilized field.

    frosty (f27e97)

  209. If that were true any flu vaccine would work against all flu variants

    Oh, they could have that for flu. They could have had it years ago. All they have to do is target the part of the virus that can’t change without losing the ability to infect people. That;s what they did for Covid.

    But the process to get a vaccine approved is very, very long and expensive, so we still are using the old type of flu vaccines.

    And they don’t need to use eggs either.

    or any vaccine would work against any virus.

    That’s too much, because viruses infect different types of cells.

    But the antivirals should work against any virus. because it targets something every virus does.

    They also should cause birth defects or maybe other kinds of problems, but for flu – and there is an anti-viral available for flu – you’d only take it for a short period of time.

    What this really sounds like is the idea that any immune response is better than none so “priming the pump” is the best way to be prepared.

    Priming the pump is actually good too. And can be done by a completely unrelated vaccine. hat;s true.

    t can also, though, exacerbate an auto-immune disease, and this may explain the impression some people have had that a vaccine caused autism in a particular child. (but you can’t sue over that, at least not for a big payday, so the lawyers had to lie and invent a false modality.) In a similar way, juvenile or “brittle” diabetes (now known as Type I diabetes) may be triggered by an infection or a vaccine, but the true cause was feeding the infant cow’s milk before the age of 6 months, combined with just the right genes because the antibodies the body tries out first or most are affected by inheritance..

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  210. Ah, the smell of a passive-aggressive quote in the morning. It doesn’t smell so much like victory as it does a freshly fertilized field.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/29/2021 @ 7:47 am

    The sad part about his swipe at ASU is that it started as a teacher’s college, not an A&M school, and has a student population equal to some mid-size suburbs. It’s actually one of the biggest public universities in the nation.

    I guess when you have MAGA-hatted goons walking around his city at all hours beating up innocent gay black men over a Subway sandwich, it’s easy to indulge in a bit of urbanite provincialism.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  211. One overlooked drawback of getting the vaccine is if someone gets infected just when or just before receiving the vaccine. The body will have more work to do and might do a less good job of fighting Covid. I would guess the tipping point is if someone was infected at least 4 or 5 days after getting the vaccine. Nobody wants to discuss such thoughts even though they should be obvious. There’s alot they are playing down

    And they want to totally disregard previous infection as determined by antibodies.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/opinion/vaccine-disinformation-new-york-city.html

    City officials said they learned through the reports that because of inaccurate information about the virus in Hasidic areas of Brooklyn, antibody testing was being misused to determine who needed to get vaccinated. Health department officials worked with community liaisons to try to correct that misunderstanding.

    What a word: misunderstanding. I;d like to know more about that. It was almost certainly not a misunderstanding. They knew that the medical decisions they were making were different than the public health dogma.

    The excuse for disregarding antibody status is that nobody has set what the minimum dose to avoid a vaccine should be and there’s no reason to do a test f you will do nothing different depending on the result.

    Also that it seems one shot of a vaccine is the equivalent of a booster (but a second shot in the standard time frame is worthless. )

    And then also the vaccines confer such strong immunity that a lower level of immunity is quite god.

    The antibodies to the virus are different from those to the vaccine since the vaccine infects someone only with the spike protein.

    The vaccine is, as a result of infecting cells with something that causes them to produce only the spike protein but not an entire virus, self-limiting. Except for the possibility of creating an autoimmune response, which may actually have nothing to do with what the body is exposed to – (although maybe in some cases it can, but only if the virus also would.)

    But it may have to do with stimulating the immune system in general. That can exacerbate Parkinson’s disease and some other things, but it may be inevitable anyway sooner or later.

    The vaccine can also sometimes cure Long Covid. Or it can make it worse. There are not going to be any studies soon showing that.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  212. frosty:

    Under the standards you have been imposing on your sparring partner, Time123, you might be engaging in misinformation. You say in your #213:

    Several things get conflated here. I think a few are being done on purpose.

    I’ve never heard anyone say

    should try to get the superior “natural” immunity instead of the inferior pharmaceutical immunity

    This is usually given as a strawman. There is a version of this I’ve heard that is put in terms of relative risk but that is a little different. Usually when people talk about natural immunity they are talking about already having had the virus and not needing a vaccine or a booster on top of that.

    Dennis Prager:

    It is infinitely preferable to have natural immunity than vaccine immunity and that is what I have hoped for the entire time. Hence, so, I have engaged with strangers, constantly hugging them, taking photos with them knowing that I was making myself very susceptible to getting COVID, which is, indeed, as bizarre as it sounded, what I wanted, in the hope that I would achieve natural immunity and be taken care of by therapeutics. That is exactly what has happened. It should have happened to the great majority of Americans.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/dennis-prager/dennis-prager-announces-he-has-covid-19-while-ranting-against-vaccines-and-declaring

    I know you are aware of the Prager quote because we wrangled about it a number of threads ago.

    So…misinformation, or mistake? What do you cop to?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  213. To warm the cockles of one’s heart is an idiom not a quote:

    To warm the cockles of one’s heart is an idiom that dates back at least to the seventeenth century. An idiom is a word, group of words or phrase that has a figurative meaning that is not easily deduced from its literal meaning. https://grammarist.com/idiom/warm-the-cockles-of-ones-heart/

    nk (1d9030)

  214. RIP Lee Elder (87).

    Rip Murdock (125f65)

  215. So…misinformation, or mistake? What do you cop to?

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/29/2021 @ 7:59 am

    I’d go with mistake. I wasn’t thinking about Prager when I made the comment. This is one example of a person who was wrong about “instead of” and would fall into my

    So, people who say they should get one instead of the other because one is better than the other are playing a little of apples and oranges. This applies to both sides.

    part of the comment.

    See how easy that was? No need to double down. No need to weasel around trying to redefine words. No need to keep repeating something after you’ve seen shown, or in this case reminded, of a counter-example.

    With respect to what you’ve put in bold; I don’t think Prager negates that. Part of my comment was overbroad but so is the strawman I’m referring to. And there are several things being conflated. Some I think are on purpose.

    frosty (f27e97)

  216. When most men think of ASU, cows are about the least likely thing you associate with that university.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  217. Definition of cow college
    1 : a college that specializes in agriculture.
    2 : a provincial college or university that lacks culture, sophistication, and tradition.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cow%20college

    nk (1d9030)

  218. Under the standards you have been imposing on your sparring partner

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/29/2021 @ 7:59 am

    Do you think these standards are unreasonable? Am I expecting to much? If “I’m” “imposing” them do you think I shouldn’t?

    frosty (f27e97)

  219. @frosty: the saying goes: Never say never. Change that to “rarely” heard “of”

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  220. A ‘Simpsons’ Episode Lampooned Chinese Censorship. In Hong Kong, It Vanished.
    ……..
    ……..[I]n season 16, the archive skips directly from episode 11 to episode 13, omitting episode 12, “Goo Goo Gai Pan,” in which the Simpson family travels to Beijing.

    There, they visit the embalmed body of Mao Zedong, whom Homer Simpson calls “a little angel that killed 50 million people.” In another scene, the family passes through Tiananmen Square, where a plaque says “On this site, in 1989, nothing happened” — a jab at the Chinese government’s attempts to suppress public memory of the massacre, in which the army opened fire on students and other pro-democracy protesters.
    …….
    It was not clear whether Disney chose to omit the “Simpsons” episode, which first aired in 2005, or was asked to do so by government regulators. Disney did not respond to an inquiry, and Hong Kong’s communications authority declined to comment. But the bureau of commerce and economic development said in a statement that the film censorship ordinance applies only to movies, not streaming services.

    That suggests that Disney pre-emptively censored itself, said Grace Leung, an expert in media regulation at the Chinese University of Hong Kong.
    …….
    Still, she acknowledged that any potential loss in Hong Kong would most likely be far offset by the benefits of appeasing the mainland authorities. “The population is not so big,” she said of the city. “They are ready to sacrifice Hong Kong’s market.”

    Disney, and Hollywood more broadly, have made no secret of their appetite for the enormous mainland Chinese market. Disney in particular has frequently drawn criticism for its perceived willingness to make capitulations in order to reach it.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  221. The troals of Jussie Smolett (in Chicago) and Ghislaine Maxwell (in New York) are set to begin today.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  222. to what some fringe student groups at some cow college have to say about Kyle Rittenhouse.

    I suspect he’d get a full scholarship at USC.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  223. This omission of an episode of the Simpsons happened only now, when the streaming service was made available in Hong Kong, and the Chinese authorities probably probably were not even aware of it being in the archive. It got discovered because Disney skipped a number only in Hong Kong.

    Something like that might not even have been made after about 2014.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  224. frosty (228):

    I have no problem hitting somebody when they have made an error. (Having done that on this thread, how could I have a problem with it?) Accusing a specific person of peddling misinformation is a different kettle of fish. I think that’s an accusation of bad faith, right up there with just saying somebody is a liar. You may not see it that way, but, judging from Time’s reaction, he did.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  225. #230 Rip – Thanks for that find. If my quick search was right, Amazon will sell you that Simpson’s China episode for $1.99. (That may be the Prime price.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  226. I think that’s an accusation of bad faith, right up there with just saying somebody is a liar. You may not see it that way, but, judging from Time’s reaction, he did.

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:32 am

    You’ve been around for the history. The mistake had already been pointed out and it was ignored. Do you have another word that would fit what was going on? At what point does something go from a mistake to something else and what is that something else?

    frosty (f27e97)

  227. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35398932 (January 26,2016)

    The Simpsons was first screened by some Chinese broadcasters in the early 2000s, but then in 2006 China banned cartoons.

    Along with Mickey Mouse it was dropped from peak-time TV, reportedly in an attempt to protect local animators and amid fears about the effect of foreign culture on Chinese children.

    However, some commentators suspected that the ban was an attempt to keep the Simpsons off screens given its coverage of controversial topics and its mockery of anything and everything – China included….

    On this site, in 1989, nothing happened’

    The most controversial episode, as far as China is concerned, is one in season 16, where the Simpsons fly to China to help a relative adopt a baby.

    This involves the family passing through Tiananmen Square, where they see signs saying: “On this site, in 1989, nothing happened”, and later encounter a tank – both references to the 1989 Tiananmen massacre.

    Homer also makes fun of Mao Zedong’s embalmed body, which he likens to “a little angel who killed 50 million people”, and poses as a Buddha to enter an orphanage.

    China’s authorities were also unlikely to be amused at the show’s portrayal of Tibet Town, an area in Chinatown surrounded by barbed wire, or the fact that Lisa Simpson is also known as a supporter of the Free Tibet movement.

    ‘Wow, the fortune cookies here really are more accurate’

    Homer Simpson utters those lines in the Goo Goo Gai Pan episode, first aired in the US in 2005. Within a decade, in 2014, the Simpsons were officially back in China, released for streaming on Chinese web portal Sohu after a deal with Fox.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  228. Appalled, i appreciate your comment, but beyond entertainment value I feel like you’re wasting your time. Once Frosty specified which of my comments he was basing his assertion on I was satisfied that a good faith reading of what I wrote showed his characterization was dishonest without any additional explanations for me.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  229. Both president Joe Biden and Dr. Anthony Fauci called the new variant “omnicron”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbyIlECexc

    It’s an unfamiliar Greek letter. Omni is a somewhat common particle.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  230. “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

    Good advice for all of us.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  231. Speaking of trials, the Ghislaine Maxwell trail has started today. I haven’t kept up with every media story on her or it but from what I know she’s been very credible accused of utterly horrific abuses of young girls.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/opening-statements-ghislaine-maxwell-sex-abuse-case-set-begin-2021-11-29/

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  232. Once Frosty specified which of my comments he was basing his assertion on I was satisfied that a good faith reading of what I wrote showed his characterization was dishonest without any additional explanations for me.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:51 am

    My “assertion”? You didn’t have any trouble calling it a lie even though I gave you the evidence that my comment was true. And that didn’t seem to stop you from giving additional explanations. Why are you waffling now?

    Appalled, still wondering if you’ve got another word that fits? You ok with Time123 saying something that was false, being made aware of the false claim, still making the claim, and also claiming that a good faith reading would show that me saying it was not true is itself a lie?

    frosty (f27e97)

  233. Frosty, your comment was dishonest. I neither posted misinformation across multiple threads nor did I participate in a propaganda campaign. Anyone who is curious can go and see for themselves what comments of mine you feel justify the lie and make their own decision.

    I’d echo, and extend, JVW’s take. You spent a number of comments across multiple threads posting misinformation here. You actively participated in that little propaganda campaign. You were given ample evidence that what you were posting was false.

    Then after you gave it a few days you claimed you didn’t follow the details of the case after the charges were filed, possibly didn’t stay up to date, didn’t know much about the details, etc. But the last time you mentioned it you were still trying to frame the issue using misinformation.

    This isn’t really a high-horse you should be trying to ride.

    https://patterico.com/2021/11/23/occupy-democrats-car-plows-into-group-of-rittenhouse-protestors11/#comment-2560584

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  234. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 1:02 pm

    Everything I said was an honest statement of what I believed and it is also correct to the best of my knowledge. It may be incorrect, and you’ve done nothing to show that, but it’s not dishonest.

    As best as I can tell you are trying to say you didn’t intend to say things that weren’t true and you didn’t intend to participate in propaganda.

    If you are trying to do that then ok. I’m not accusing you of intending to do those things. I believe you believed what you were saying was true. What I also believe is that you have problems with your biases.

    The fact remains; what you said was not true (you’ve acknowledged that), it was propaganda (I’m not sure what your claim is here), you had reason to know it wasn’t true and correct yourself (you’ve acknowledged that), you chose not to for your own reasons (you’ve acknowledged that).

    frosty (f27e97)

  235. @245 this is not an accurate summation.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  236. Worth Study: Kristofer Harrison’s meet-the-texas-secessionist-movement-brought-to-you-by-russia.

    Sample:

    The shiny ball that caught Cruz’s attention was The Texas Nationalist Movement (TNM). TNM is Texas’s most prominent secessionist organization. In 2015, TNM attended a St. Petersburg gathering of worldwide extremists organized by Rodina—that’s “Motherland” in Russian—the fascist-adjacent offshoot of Putin’s United Russia party.

    That gathering was a safe space where the likes of German Neo-Nazis, the KKK, Greece’s Golden Dawn, and Roberto Fiore (the Italian terrorist responsible for a 1980 bombing in Bologna that killed 85), could gather and praise Putin’s defense of Western (read: “white”) culture.

    There’s much more.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  237. I feel like

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 1:02 pm
    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 1:45 pm

    seem to undermine

    I was satisfied that a good faith reading of what I wrote showed his characterization was dishonest without any additional explanations for me.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/29/2021 @ 11:51 am

    frosty (f27e97)

  238. “I represent science!” – Anthony Fauci, bureaucrat, 11/28/21

    This sounds like something the Pope would have said to Galileo in 1632.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  239. #230 Rip – Thanks for that find. If my quick search was right, Amazon will sell you that Simpson’s China episode for $1.99. (That may be the Prime price.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/29/2021 @ 10:41 am

    Except in China or Hong Kong, I bet.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  240. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-omicron-non-emergency-joe-biden-south-africa-kathy-hochul-11638225480?mod=djm_dailydiscvrtst

    South African doctors say Omicron cases they’ve seen are milder and cause different symptoms, notably fatigue.

    I’m not sure that;s what characterizes mild cases. Maybe that is what stands out when nothing worse is there.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  241. Blood clots in the brain, water in the lungs, and enlarged heart are nothing to sneeze at, Sammy. If it does not cause those, like the original did, it is milder by a mile.

    nk (1d9030)

  242. Where did omicron come from?

    The origin of omicron is unclear. It came out of a remote part of the virus’s family tree. It is not a descendant of delta, although it shares some of delta’s mutations. With testing and genomic surveillance spotty in some regions, scientists aren’t sure how long this variant has been in circulation. It is possible that omicron has gradually evolved in the human population and simply remained below the radar of the scientific and medical establishments.

    Another possibility, still speculative but discussed by many scientists in recent days, is that omicron evolved over many months within an immunocompromised patient with a protracted infection. In a patient treated with therapeutics such as monoclonal antibodies or convalescent sera, a viral strain that can survive the assault can potentially amass a host of mutations. Such cases have been documented, but they are not known to have led to outbreaks in the general population.

    Andersen favors another conjecture: That the virus possibly came from an animal. He bases that on the array of mutations not previously seen in humans. The coronavirus is a generalist pathogen that can pass from humans into animal populations — and potentially back again.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/omicron-mutations-alarm-scientists-but-new-variant-first-must-prove-it-can-outcompete-delta/ar-AARhgqb

    I really would like to see consideration of the “It was engineered” possibility, if only to show how it wasn’t.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  243. water in the lungs

    Necrosis in the lungs is a problem, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  244. Question: Assuming that a small change in the vaccines can handle omicron, what level of testing is needed before the revised version can be used?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  245. So the socialist totalitarian groups in ASU got Rittenhouse kicked out.

    I hope he goes after them and the school for defaming him.

    NJRob (0ee5a5)

  246. 239. 240. Rudolph Giuliani als called in omnicrpn on the radio show on WABC today. He claims he knows what disease Biden has. He also said hat every person he sent to Dr. Zelenko is still alive (most people would be anyway, and Dr, Zelenko himself said he needed to catch it early)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  247. Omnicron was what Giuliani called it (instead of Omicron) but that typo is obvious. That Greek letter must just not commonly appear anywhere else. It’s not alpha or beta or even gamma, epsilon, kappa or or sigma.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  248. nk@253.

    Blood clots in the brain, water in the lungs, and enlarged heart are nothing to sneeze at, Sammy. If it does not cause those, like the original did, it is milder by a mile.

    I don’t know because a lot is left out of news stories, although you can fill in some gaps from other reading.

    The interesting thing is that blood clots are a symptom both of the virus and of the vaccine *to a lesser degree) which means they are caused by the immune system.

    Thare’s a drug (or you can call it a nutrient) to lower the risk of blood clots Vitamin D or maybe Vitamin K.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7891480

    Furthermore, vitamin D and its associated molecules are also known to directly or indirectly regulate various thrombotic pathways. We propose that vitamin D supplementation not only attenuates the risk of Acute Respiratory Disease Syndrome (ARDS) but it also may have a role in reducing coagulation abnormalities in critically ill COVID-19 patients.

    https://www.pharmaca.com/projectwellness/what-do-we-know-about-vitamin-k-and-covid-19/

    Water in the lungs always comes about because something in general is not working right.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  249. The interesting thing is that blood clots are a symptom both of the virus and of the vaccine (to a lesser degree)

    Like 5 orders of magnitude “lesser”. It’s like comparing drowning in a tidal wave to drowning in a punch bowl.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  250. https://www.krqe.com/health/coronavirus/scientist-who-helped-identify-omicron-its-more-of-a-frankenstein-than-others

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/health/covid-omicron-vaccines-immunity.html

    “This thing is a Frankenstein mix of all of the greatest hits,” Dr. Hoge said, referring to the variant’s many concerning mutations. “It just triggered every one of our alarm bells.”

    What this really means is that you shouldn’t worry too much about the ineffectiveness of the vasccines.

    The explanation of Frankenstein mix is that Covid can undergo only so many mutations that matter, and most of them are familiar by now. Someone called it a Frankenstein monster because it has many of them.

    But they should know what each of them do. You can make very good educated guesses.

    Already, a computer simulation has predicted that those mutations may alter about six of the hundreds of regions that T cells can recognize, said Wendy Burgers, an immunologist at the University of Cape Town.

    That may not seem like much. But people make varying sets of T cells, so depending on which targets the mutations knock out, some people may barely be affected by Omicron — and others may be left vulnerable.

    That’s right. The vaccines based on the Wuhan flu are not less effective, but they may work less well in a random subset of people. Getting a booster may cause the immune system to this time target something that is present in both the Wuhan flu and Omicron if it hasn’t before.

    6 out of hundreds. But they go into a semi-panic. They say maybe

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  251. Depends on the age group and sex Kevin

    NJRob (86afa3)

  252. Depends on the age group and sex Kevin

    Indeed. Outside of “young women” it’s 10 orders of magnitude.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  253. https://www.krqe.com/health/coronavirus/regeneron-says-its-antibody-treatment-may-be-less-effective-against-omicron

    Now this is nonsense.

    There are only two targets in the Regeneron cocktail.

    A mutation that changes the target is either there or it’s not. And it’s been sequenced, so researches know.

    Eli Lilly at one time no longer worked but it was changed.

    It’s coming back:

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/once-sidelined-eli-lilly-s-covid-19-antibody-treatment-comeback-trail-supply-agreement-u-s

    After a two-month hiatus, Eli Lilly’s COVID-19 antibody treatment is back in the game and hoping for a successful second chapter.

    On Tuesday, the company revealed that it’s has struck a deal with one of its loyal customers, the United States government, which has agreed to purchase 614,000 doses of the therapy for $1.29 billion.

    The combination of etesevimab and bamlanivimab is a treatment for mild to moderate COVID-19 or for post-exposure prophylaxis in high-risk individuals. Lilly will provide at least 400,000 doses by the end of the year, with the rest guaranteed by the end of January 2022.

    There is also Glaxo Smith Kline.)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  254. I said that thwe worst mistake was keeping visitors out of nursing homes, because it permitted everything else.

    It seems now to be recognized as wrong but is not acknowledged as a mistake.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/27/health/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

    Initially, visitors were barred entirely. Later, facilities enforced a variety of rules: Some prohibited visitors from residents’ rooms, allowed visitors only outdoors and during brief scheduled windows, or permitted only one at a time.

    Many of these restrictions were based on rules, known as “guidance,” mandated by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the federal agency that closed facilities to visitors in March 2020. It has issued several revisions since.

    Now all that has changed. On Nov. 12, the federal agency removed virtually all such restrictions and advised the country’s nursing homes to allow visitation “for all residents at all times.” The agency noted that 86 percent of U.S. nursing home residents and 74 percent of employees were fully vaccinated, and that Covid-19 cases had fallen drastically.

    The update means no more limits on the frequency, time, duration, location or number of visitors. Access to residents’ rooms, unless a roommate is unvaccinated or immunocompromised, is allowed, and advance scheduling is not required.

    The federal policy still encouraged vaccination and emphasized infection control measures, including masks and distancing policies established by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention….

    ,,,,While facilities can ask visitors about their vaccination status and encourage testing, they can’t require either vaccination or tests for entrance. Even during a Covid outbreak, under the new guidance nursing homes must allow visitors inside, albeit with masks. Visitors who decline to disclose whether they are vaccinated must also wear masks…

    ….When the pandemic cut off such contact, for more than a year in many cases, families reported disturbing health declines. A study of Connecticut nursing home residents, for instance, found substantial increases in depression and unintended weight loss during the lockdown; incontinence increased and cognition declined….

    …Trish Huckin spent nearly a year battling administrators at her 96-year-old mother’s nursing home in Pinckney, Mich., before she was allowed inside to make so-called compassionate care visits. Even then, “the restrictions were ridiculous,” she said. The facility allowed her three one-hour visits a week in a public area, only by appointment. If she couldn’t make one of the prearranged times, she could not reschedule.

    When the facility finally eased restrictions, Ms. Huckin — with her wife, a hospital nurse — was finally able to see her mother, who has dementia, in her room. They discovered that in addition to losing weight and becoming depressed, her mother had developed a bedsore and early pneumonia.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  255. No, they did not.

    Rittenhouse told NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield last week he took a “compassionate withdrawal” from two ASU classes due to being “overwhelmed” with his upcoming trial, but said he plans to re-enroll.

    Rittenhouse also told Fox News last week he hoped to study nursing or law on ASU’s campus as part of a “quiet, stress-free” life.
    ….
    ASU spokesman Jay Thorne declined to comment on Wednesday’s planned protest or the petition, the Arizona Republic reported. Rittenhouse can still reapply to take courses at ASU at a later date, the spokesman said.

    “Any qualified individual can apply for admission,” Thorne’s email to the newspaper continued.

    ASU does not inquire about a candidate’s criminal history during the admissions process or to take online classes, so Rittenhouse could’ve continued taking online classes even if he was found guilty and sent to prison, Thorne previously said.

    nk (1d9030)

  256. Cpvid infections are rising but some of the staff is unvaccinated. Isolation from family permitted epidemics.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  257. ASU does not inquire about a candidate’s criminal history during the admissions process or to take online classes,

    Or about high school graduation, I think. The courses award no credit, I believe.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  258. The original cause was probably lyme disease – then it was the immune system.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  259. I assume that Rittenhouse was what they called an irregular student in my day. Not on a degree track, just taking courses for the sake of the subject alone. Some of those courses could be transferred should he be admitted as a regular student on track for a Bachelor’s. It depends on the course. Navajo Basket Weaving probably would be applied to the Social Sciences requirement, and Archery to the general electives. Remedial level courses are usually not given credit towards the degree requirements.

    nk (1d9030)

  260. The knowledge gained, if he gained knowledge, could help him pass tests for credit, or just prepare him for a for credit course. But he probably didn’t do too well in that online course, and he doesn’t need it now as an argument for a lower sentence. He sounds like he’ll maybe now try something else. (he spoke abut switching to law)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  261. mg @ 274.

    Most masks are not particularly good – at least at totally preventing any infection, but some, not commonly worn by the public, are much better than others, and it also matters how long they are worn and how far away from an infected person, and not all infected people are known. You also have to contend with fake high quality masks from China.

    There is no contradiction between CDC Director Rachel Walensky saying that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID or flu or common cold by reducing your chance of infection by 80%, and studies that show no such thing happening in the real world while a pandemic is raging and there are multiple possible sources of infection.

    Places having the most people vaccinated having the highest case rates could be caused by the presence of Covid causing vaccinations and testing of asymptomatic people and not by vaccinations causing Covid, which is close to absurd, although someone getting vaccinated just before or after getting infected could cause a worse case, and a mass vaccination site is where you would be more likely to find infected people because vaccination has been (insanely) promoted as though it were a cure.

    It ;s the monoclonal antibodies, if given in time, that are a cure, although it’s the one weapon against the pandemic that is most susceptible to suddenly not working.

    There is also the pill which is coming along, (Pfizer better than Merck, but both should probably cause birth defects in pregnant woman if taken at the right stage of pregnancy) although not as effective as the antibodies, and there are things that, despite attempts to argue there isn’t anything and can;t be anything except things sanctioned by the FDA, that should help people get through an infection, although nowhere as good as the antibodies.

    There are also totally ineffective things being touted.

    It might also be that mass vaccination reduces the spread of undetected cases more than it does detectable ones.

    Another thing that may be going on is that there may be a mutation that causes all possible vaccines not to work as well, probably by shielding the spike protein from antibodies most of the time (this should also slow the progression of the disease) If so, there are people who actually know exactly what it is.

    As COVID cases continued to rise, the CDC’s narrative shifted from vaccines being “safe and effective” to “get a booster shot for protection.”

    There’s logic to that. It creates a greater variety as well as a greater quantity of antibodies in the bloodstream, so if a mutation reduces the effectiveness of the vaccine, or the speed with which the body disposes of the virus, more antibodies could compensate.

    What’s not good is that CDC is talking down to people and oversimplifying, and they are so afraid that people will not listen to them, and want their recommendations, which change from time to time and also have some obvious flaws, to be treated as infallible, while actually rather arbitrarily deciding what to believe in the absence of rock solid proof. And they have doubts where they should not have any doubts.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  262. This German court reached the right verdict:

    A former Islamic State (IS) fighter was convicted by a German court on Tuesday of genocide and committing war crimes for chaining up a 5-year-old Yazidi girl and leaving her in the sun to die.

    Taha Al-Jumailly had bought the little girl and her mother, and was punishing the girl for wetting her bed.

    His wife, a German citizen, received a sentence of 10 years in a separate trial, for failing to stop him.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  263. Yesterday’s New York Times described a serious problem with masks: counterfeits.

    Consumers who try to purchase N95 masks, mainly on Amazon, are often led to vendors selling fake or poorly made KN95s, a Chinese-made mask that is often marketed as an N95 equivalent despite the lack of testing by U.S. regulators to confirm virus-filtering claims.
    . . .
    All but a handful of the 50 best-selling KN95 masks on Amazon are plagued by similar problems, according to an analysis of sales data published by the marketing analytics firm Jungle Scout. Last month, companies that make or sell masks of dubious quality racked up almost $34 million in sales.

    Some American companies are also producing dubious masks, but most of the poor ones come from China — and Amazon is by far the biggest seller.

    (For the record: These masks probably provide a little protection, just as an ordinary bandana tied over your mouth and nose does.

    I dislike wearing masks, but, following the Golden Rule, still wear one, in order to protect my neighbors, in case I am infectious.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  264. mg at #274 —

    The article has one big flaw — it does not talk about severity of infections of the vaccinated vs. the severity of the unvaccinated.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  265. “The Omicron Variant” [starring Lee Majors, Lynda Carter, Bill Bixby & Loni Anderson] premiered in California today.

    One case.

    “I represent science.” – Bureaucrat Fauci, 11/28/21

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  266. I read that approximately 1 in 20 infections are sequenced in the United States; 1 in 7 in New York. But there should be more people checked for it if they are specially looking.

    This person in California flew back from South Africa on November 22nd – a day before South African doctors announced the discovery of the new variant – which at first the media thought was going to be called nu, but instead was called Omicron. He or she was tested on November 29.

    Two planed from South Africa carrying about 600 people flew to the Netherlands during the beginning of the shutdown – of those, about 60 tested positive and 13 had Omicron.

    Omicron has 26 mutations on the spike protein, (compared to the Wuhan variant) which the vaccines target, Beta had 6 and Delta has 10

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  267. Appalled (1a17de) — 12/1/2021 @ 10:26 am

    The article has one big flaw — it does not talk about severity of infections of the vaccinated vs. the severity of the unvaccinated.

    Nobody has figures. I don’t think the CDC supplies them, nor any guesses about the viral load or multiple exposures.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  268. Kyle Rittenhouse dropped out of high school in the 10th grade, they say now to support his family, but in the year he was in jail and out on bail apparently completed high school. They are going to destroy the gun ( don’t think it was exactly his own indepewndent decision. He’s got lawyers.

    There is a dispute about the bail. The instant he was acquitted, Lin Wood filed papers asking for the bail money to returned to him. He was ready to go. He has not been at all transparent about what he did with the money that raised on Kyle’s behalf. They got one spreadsheet once.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/kyle-rittenhouse-bashes-fraud-lawyer-lin-wood-1265395

    A lot about Kyle Rittenhouse and the Kenosha riot is here:

    https://www.freekyleusa.org

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  269. Another came out on the Charlie Kirk show (interview of Kyle Rittenhouse)

    There were not two, but three, levels of quality of the drone video. The most degraded (compressed with a lossy compression program) was given to Kyle Rittenhouse’s lawyers because they used Android software and not Apple so it couldn’t be sent via Air Drop.(very late they got a higher quality video) The prosecution had higher quality video. But the highest quality was on the drone itself. They say it has been destroyed. Kyle Rotttenhouse’s lawyers have filed OIA requests.

    On a discussion forum, someone wrote:

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/New-Rittenhouse-video-Includes-drone-aerial-footage/5-2501386 Poster 1:

    I thought he was hanging out protecting the gas station and putting out dumpster fires when the pedo charged him and ate a lead salad.

    Poster 2:

    The cops had dispersed the crowd and kept Rittenhouse from linking up with the group he was in and instead ordered him to move in the direction where the rioters were.

    (I think they had chased the rioters earlier in that direction)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  270. Alec Baldwin: I think it’s quite possible that he didn’t consciously pull the trigger – just grabbed the gun and put his finger in front of the trigger. (the reports are very consistent with that.)

    In order to get a good grip on the gun, the first thing he would have done would have been to pull the trigger before relaxing his grip.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  271. New York Times has story that, in it, quotes a doctor as saying that some of thinking behind public health recommendations is predicated on something that is wrong:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/covid-omicron-booster-shots.html

    The push for extra doses is predicated on the idea that antibodies are the central aspect of immunity, a false perspective that overlooks the importance of other parts of the immune system in preventing severe illness and death, said Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and an adviser to the Food and Drug Administration. </i?

    That;s because antibodies in the bloodsrream is something you can measure. But there is no est, except a challenge type test, for immune memory.

    He also says the vaccines should still work for the most part:

    But limited evidence to date suggests that the vaccines still prevent severe illness, he said.

    “That’s always been true — it’s been true for the first three variants, and it’s likely to be true here,” he said. “If you’re setting the goal as protection against mild illness, then we’re going to be boosting until the day we die.”

    First 3 variants = alpha, gamma and delta?

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  272. He’s lying, Sammy. He not only must have pulled the trigger, he must also have needed to manually cock the gun — pull back the hammer with his thumb — for it to fire. It’s that kind of a gun. It’s called a single action but that refers only to what the trigger does. It only releases the hammer which has been cocked by a separate action. He is a lying piece of crap, that is what Alec Baldwin is.

    nk (1d9030)

  273. First point: Why on God’s green earth would the Waukesha SUV killer take an interview with FoxNews? Doesn’t he at least have a public defender to stop him from that?
    Second point: If you do something demonic, people may just demonize you. They may just say you’re a “monster” for murdering six innocent human beings in cold blood.
    Third point: She could be a mother for mothering her son, but she issued a poorly written statement about his mental illness, which doesn’t support the theory that his use of an SUV as a lethal weapon was a terrorist attack.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  274. nk (1d9030) — 12/2/2021 @ 7:26 am

    He’s lying, Sammy. He not only must have pulled the trigger, he must also have needed to manually cock the gun — pull back the hammer with his thumb — for it to fire. It’s that kind of a gun. It’s called a single action but that refers only to what the trigger does. It only releases the hammer which has been cocked by a separate action.

    One thing that bothered me was his claim that he did not pull the trigger. He would have to know that that was impossible unless he was trying to argue that the gun was vastly defective, which he has to know is vastly unlikely, and would be a sign of lying. But I didn’t see that argument stated. On the other hand what I read was brief so maybe that was his intent. (to argue that Legal defenses can claim improbable things)

    I figured that this claim he did not pull the trigger could be maybe not that carefully thought out.

    So we’re left with either he went through the full motions of setting the gun to fire (which would take a little bit of time – more than just picking up the gun and asking if he should hold it this way or he was given the gun already cocked. (not an impossibility, since people were using it before, or otherwise there wouldn’t have been a real bullet in it.)

    When someone stops using a gun can they leave it cocked?

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  275. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 12/2/2021 @ 8:04 am

    Why on God’s green earth would the Waukesha SUV killer take an interview with FoxNews?

    He was hoping for public pressure to improve his jail conditions, and possibly to influence a jury. He may be hoping to hook into a narrative. AS the two Senators said:

    It has come to our attention that outside individuals or groups may attempt to exploit the tragedy that occurred last Sunday in Waukesha for their own political purposes.

    Well, they probably contacted Darrell Brooks, or someone close to him contact them, before the two Senators heard about it.

    Doesn’t he at least have a public defender to stop him from that?

    Well, these outside groups may be paying for a lawyer, or promising him one. And he did not speak about the case.

    Third point: She could be a mother for mothering her son, but she issued a poorly written statement about his mental illness, which doesn’t support the theory that his use of an SUV as a lethal weapon was a terrorist attack.

    They seem to have decided that mental illness is the best thing he can say in court.

    For the public, and for fundraising, maybe that it wasn’t him.

    And it wasn’t a terrorist attack. He maybe wanted to be the leader of a prison gang.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  276. When someone stops using a gun can they leave it cocked?

    Absolutely. Some guns are always cocked. But it would be very unusual for this type of gun to be holstered and cocked, and it still would not fire unless the trigger was pulled, or a very heavy blow on the hammer sheared the sear from the cocked notch (which is not alleged to have happened here).

    Also, this particular gun is an Italian-made Pietta replica of the 1873 Colt Single Action Army, and for a long while now those guns cannot be imported unless they have a safety, but I don’t know what generation it is. The 2nd generation has a transfer bar which blocks the firing unless the trigger is pulled even if it is dropped on a cocked hammer.

    nk (1d9030)

  277. I heard verbally that the first case of Omicron (the one in California) was a doctor. Someone who studied Omicron? That would make it a lab leak or patient transmission.

    The second one was someone in Minnesota who recently attended a convention in New York (he two Canadian cases involved some people who traveled to Africa. I think one of them was far away from South Africa.

    The newser article says that Minnesota sequences about 20% of its coronavirus cases and that only two states (one of them I remember, was California) do more.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  278. The gun wasn’t holstered. It was picked up from a tray which had three guns on it. Before he was handed it. Alec Baldwin was told “cold gun” by the assistant director.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  279. Another thing: At the height of the epidemic only about 1 in 120 people was infected at any given time.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  280. The guns were being used, from time to time, without permission, by some of the people on the set. For shooting at beer cans or the like.

    The people responsible for the guns don’t exactly want to acknowledge that but apparently there are witnesses..

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  281. The gun wasn’t holstered.

    Baldwin holstered it. Then he “rehearsed” his cross-draw as the victims were lining up the camera, i.e. he drew the gun and pointed it at them, and that’s when the shot was fired.

    nk (1d9030)

  282. I didn’t read or absorb all the stories. A lot of news stories give you only partial details. But this one confrims it:

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/10/25/report-alec-baldwin-was-practicing-holstering-his-gun-when-he-shot-killed-halyna-hutchins

    According to the affidavit [filed to obtain the search warrant] , the 63-year-old actor was rehearsing removing the gun from its holster and aiming it at the camera when it went off.

    Per the affidavit, assistant director Dave Halls had handed Baldwin the prop gun and yelled that it was a “cold gun,” meaning it was not loaded with live ammunition, the Times reports.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/30/movies/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-timeline.html

    Then it was time for Mr. Baldwin, 63, who was seated on a pew, to practice his scene: a close-up of his hand as he slowly reached across his chest, drew a .45 Long Colt revolver from a shoulder holster and moved it toward the lens of the camera. The crew had been assured the gun was “cold,” meaning it held no live ammunition, according to court papers. In fact, investigators said, it was loaded with a live round. The error would prove fatal.

    Suddenly there was a loud noise that the director, Joel Souza, later told a detective “sounded like a whip and then loud pop” as the gun went off.

    The film’s cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins, 42, who was standing just feet away from Mr. Baldwin, to the left of the camera, grabbed her midsection and began to stumble backward, fatally struck in the chest by a lead bullet that investigators say passed through her and then wounded the film’s director, Mr. Souza, 48…

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  283. Delta didn’t start around New Delhi but in Maharashtra province in India in March, 2021?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharashtra

    It is now said to be 99% of all cases in the United States. It must have reached whoever can be reached first.

    Omicron started from one person – a multitude of mutations where you do not any intermediate mutations in other people means it was created in one person who had along running infection, who was immunity limited, probably someone with HIV or taking anti rejection immunosuppressing drugs. Or cancer treatment.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)


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