Patterico's Pontifications

11/16/2021

Constitutional Vanguard: The Arbery Jury Selection, Part Two: Wait, It’s Supposedly Racist to Challenge *This* Juror?!?!

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



The prosecutors in the Arbery murder trial said it was racist for the defense to excuse a juror who had participated in a bike ride for Arbery’s family. Another “racist” challenge was to a juror who had already decided that the defendants were guilty. I explain here. Subscribe here.

Meanwhile, the Rittenhouse case continues. The prosecutor continued to cover himself in glory by pointing the AR-15 at people in the courtroom without having personally checked it to see if it was not loaded (dumb move even if he had checked it), and by belittling the arson, vandalism, and general buffoonery by one of the rioters Rittenhouse shot in a sarcastic tone:

I have not watched this whole trial, but everything I have seen of this prosecutor is bad. He seems incompetent and annoying as hell. I bet the jury hates him.

179 Responses to “Constitutional Vanguard: The Arbery Jury Selection, Part Two: Wait, It’s Supposedly Racist to Challenge *This* Juror?!?!”

  1. So, is it the conventional wisdom among those who have watched the trial that Rittenhouse walks? From everything I have seen, that would be my expectation — but I have not seen that much.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  2. I just hope the jury doesn’t waffle and opt for some manslaughter charge.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. Rittenhouse walks, but Joe Biden tells Merrick Garland to open up a criminal investigation.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  4. I have watched or listened to most of the trial. One would think it would be impossible for Rittenhouse to be found guilty of anything. The prosecution really has come off as slimy when they aren’t acting plain incompetent. Binger never mentioned “provocation” in his opening argument, that I heard, but he made this the focus of the closing argument. That was only possible because of a surprise bit of evidence that the prosecutor’s own expert managed to crap on.

    The jury should kick this to the curb on the merits alone. Emotionally, even though it shouldn’t be a factor, they can easily kick it due to the behavior of the DA’s stooges. But, sadly, it is still a roll of the dice since several jurors, pre trial, expressed concern for personal safety after a verdict is read.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  5. After six to nine months, the Department of Justice doesn’t find anything to indict Kyle Rittenhouse on, or any public official in Kenosha, but they file or settle a lawsuit against somebody in law enforcement in Wisconsin.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  6. With the charges of racism by the prosecution, maybe that’s a good reason why defense has twice as many peremptory challenges. Good grief.

    As for Rittenhouse, I’ve only watched and read bits and pieces, but I think he walks. The prosecution not only didn’t prove the case, Binger was an unlikable jerk.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  7. I have seen some of his trial, maybe 1-2 hours live. Read analysis from both ends of the political spectrum (sad that this happens these days).

    I think he walks.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  8. Thread including images:

    Jiovanni Lieggi
    @lieggiji
    ·
    1h
    The jury in the #Rittenhouse trial has asked for 11 additional copies only of pages 1-6 of the jury instructions.

    These pages lay out the self-defense privilege.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/lieggiji/status/1460657686928928777

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  9. Rittenhouse walks, but Joe Biden orders Merrick Garland to open up a criminal investigation.

    FIFY.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. After the acquittal, it leaks out that the DA knew there was no case, but filed anyway “to teach him a lesson.” Rittenhouse sues in federal court under Civil Rights law.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. I agree with Paul. Not sure that the jury will bail out an unlikable prosecutor with a lesser charge.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  12. AJ, on the last thread you said “I think he was over-charged by the prosecution.”

    And I asked “What charges do you recommend?“

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  13. 9. Yes, of course, a criminal investigation. Without prejudging it. And since there’s nothing to charge, they won’t do it. But this will take the pressure off of him that will likely be coming from members of Congress.

    Note: The initial FBI investigation of rump wasn’t criminal, but a counterintelligence one, but that does not apply here. and it was not technically of Trump, so Comey could deny to Trump that he was under investigation .

    It became criminal after Trump fired James Comey. Andrew McCabe started a criminal investigation on the grounds that firing Comey might have been to cover-up something.

    Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein (the top person at DOJ here because Jeff Sessions had recused himself from dealing with any matter touching the 2016 election) did not want to peremptorily ally shut it down, because it wouldn’t look good, but he also didn’t want to leave McCabe in charge, so he attempted to get Trump to appoint Robert Mueller the next FBI Director. When that failed, he named Mueller a special counsel. He thought, actually correctly, that Mueller would not bring an invalid charge, and that his decision would be accepted by Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  14. The judge directed the jury that if they believe it was self defense, then there is no l’esser charge to consider. He walks free as he should.

    NJRob (f23790)

  15. I thought that the ‘Binger Points The Gun’ thing was a trap. A stupid trap but a trap.

    It goes like this.

    Binger points the gun at the jury. Someone feels threatened and says, “Don’t point that gun at us, you moron!”

    Binger says, “AH HA! You felt threatened! You felt provoked! That proves my case that the blown up photo with no details showed a fraction of a second where, as well as holding the gun with his left hand which he never does in any of the other film, Rittenhouse was totes provoking them!”

    I don’t think anyone fell for that.

    ingot9455 (82c9ce)

  16. So as to time of day of a not guilty verdict reading, if there are no restrictions, I’d just as soon it be at 3am. You don’t have to live it as much as I may have to. Yes I would concur with an aquittal.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  17. The judge directed the jury that if they believe it was self defense, then there is no lesser charge to consider.

    Correct.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. I’m no expert in Wisconsin Law or what might be relevant precedent, but the evidence…in light of self defense…doesn’t seem to support homicide. Now maybe there was a case to be made for 2nd-degree recklessly endangering safety….a Class G felony….but that would require proving Rittenhouse’s conduct recklessly created a risk of death for another person. Everyone in the riot would seem to be guilty of that….and simply exercising a right to open carry would not seem to be sufficient on its own. The prosecution’s attempt to show “menacing” behavior didn’t seem that persuasive. More likely, a charge of usurping law enforcement’s role in policing the area might be more consistent with the facts, though the prosecution would still have a jury sympathetic with Rittenhouse’s goals of discouraging arson and vandalism. But his actions did ultimately lead to confrontation and that confrontation escalated to violence. Still, where is the line? If he was invited and stayed on a property, that would certainly not appear to be an unauthorized police enforcement by any stretch. Similarly with simply walking about unless he was specifically ordered to leave the area. I would think the prosecutor would have had to prove that Rittenhouse purposefully initiated the confrontation….while the evidence suggests he was the reactor. Maybe some type of misdemeanor?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  19. 16: I doubt that. But it won’t be at bar-closing either.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. Verdicts never come at 3 am because the jury recesses for the night or longer.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  21. AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 11/16/2021 @ 11:57 am

    More likely, a charge of usurping law enforcement’s role in policing the area might be more consistent with the facts

    Is that a chargeable offense and what are the elements of that charge?

    frosty (f27e97)

  22. @1 I’ve watched the whole thing, as the prosecution’s trainwreck was must. see. tv!

    Because the Judge dropped the curfew and gun charge, I’m not sure the other charges holds up anymore.

    Based on how the case transpired and the evidences provided, Rittenhouse *should* be acquitted. But, an unsequestered jury? Who knows?

    whembly (446c04)

  23. “When your default assumptions are this dumb, unrealistic, childish, and ill-informed…”

    Ah, vintage Socko. Cool and fresh as a mountain stream in early spring.

    #AcceptNoSubstitutes #EasyLikeSundayMornin

    Demosthenes (3fd56e)

  24. Verdicts never come at 3 am because the jury recesses for the night or longer.

    Thank you, Captain Literal.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. But, an unsequestered jury? Who knows?

    Hey, tires don’t slash themselves.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  26. Reports are 2 jurors are upholding the aquittal, citing fear of backlash and doxing.

    NJRob (f1bf04)

  27. https://www.khou.com/article/news/nation-world/kyle-rittenhouse-charges/507-0e3f0687-95bf-4a6f-ae2c-9dea26223a1f

    What charges does Kyle Rittenhouse face?

    COUNT 1: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESS HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
    This felony charge is connected to the death of Joseph Rosenbaum, the first man Rittenhouse shot. Bystander video shows Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse through a parking lot and throwing a plastic bag at him. Rittenhouse flees behind a car and Rosenbaum follows. Video introduced at trial showed Rittenhouse wheeling around and firing as Rosenbaum chased him. Richie McGinniss, a reporter who was trailing Rittenhouse, testified that Rosenbaum lunged for Rittenhouse’s gun. Reckless homicide differs from intentional homicide in that prosecutors aren’t alleging Rittenhouse intended to murder Rosenbaum. Instead, they’re alleging Rittenhouse caused Rosenbaum’s death in circumstances showing an utter disregard for human life.The charge is punishable by up to 60 years in prison. The dangerous weapon modifier carries an additional five years.

    COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
    This felony charge is connected to the Rosenbaum shooting. McGinniss told investigators he was in the line of fire when Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum. The charge is punishable by 12 1/2 years in prison. The weapons modifier carries an additional five years.

    COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
    Video shows an unknown man leaping at Rittenhouse and trying to kick him seconds before Anthony Huber moves his skateboard toward him. Rittenhouse appears to fire two rounds at the man but apparently misses as the man runs away. This charge is a felony punishable by 12 1/2 years in prison. The weapons modifier again would add up to five more years.

    COUNT 4: FIRST-DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
    This charge is in Huber’s death. Video shows Rittenhouse running down the street after shooting Rosenbaum when he falls to the street. Huber leaps at him and swings a skateboard at his head and neck and tries to grab Rittenhouse’s gun before Rittenhouse fires. The criminal complaint alleges Rittenhouse aimed the weapon at Huber. Intentional homicide means just that — a person killed someone and meant to do it. The count carries a mandatory life sentence. The weapons modifier would add up to five years. The jury also was given the option of second-degree intentional homicide and first-degree reckless homicide in Huber’s death. Second-degree intentional homicide is punishable by up to 60 years in prison. The first-degree reckless homicide charge sought in Huber’s death matches an original charge in Rosenbaum’s death — it would require jurors to decide that Rittenhouse caused Huber’s death with an utter disregard for human life — and is punishable by up to 60 years in prison.

    COUNT 5: ATTEMPTED FIRST-DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
    This is the charge for Rittenhouse shooting Gaige Grosskreutz in the arm seconds after he shot Huber, and as Grosskreutz came toward him holding a pistol. Grosskreutz survived. Video shows Rittenhouse pointing his gun at Grosskreutz and firing a single round. The charge carries a maximum sentence of 60 years. The weapons modifier would add up to five more years. The jury has also been given the option of considering second-degree attempted intentional homicide and first-degree reckless endangerment charges. The possible punishment for attempted second-degree intentional homicide is 30 years. Attempted first-degree reckless homicide is punishable by up to 12 1/2 years.

    COUNT 6: POSSESSION OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON BY A PERSON UNDER 18

    The judge dismissed this charge on Monday. Rittenhouse was armed with an AR-style semi-automatic rifle. He was 17 years old on the night of the shootings. Wisconsin law prohibits minors from possessing firearms except for hunting or when supervised by an adult in target practice or instruction in the proper use of a dangerous weapon. Rittenhouse’s attorneys argued that another subsection of the law, regarding short-barreled rifles, provided grounds for dismissing the charge. Prosecutors argued the defense was misreading the statute, and Schroeder had earlier twice declined to dismiss the charge. But the judge also had said the statute was confusing. After prosecutors conceded that the rifle was not short-barreled, Schroeder dismissed the charge.

    COUNT 7: FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH AN EMERGENCY ORDER FROM STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
    Rittenhouse was charged with being out on the streets after an 8 p.m. curfew imposed by the city, a minor offense that carries a fine of up to $200. The judge dismissed this charge during the trial, saying the prosecution didn’t offer enough evidence to prove it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  28. Reports are 2 jurors are upholding the aquittal, citing fear of backlash and doxing.

    Such jurors should be turfed.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. Count 6 and 7 were tossed, DCSCA. I am glad you are trying to become more familiar with the trial, though.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  30. “Hey, tires don’t slash themselves.”

    The far-right is doxing and threatening a man they incorrectly believe is on the Kyle Rittenhouse jury

    https://www.dailydot.com/debug/falsely-identified-rittenhouse-juror-doxed-threatened/

    Indeed

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  31. @30. That’s what it says, Buduh, if you read them.

    Such are the ramifications of vigilantism.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  32. What a useless link to make a really dumb claim.

    “All we can tell you is that The Far Right is up to no good; we cannot offer proof though because safety.”

    Antifa and BLM have met their match thanks to the organization “The Far Right.”

    How stupid.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  33. “How stupid.”

    Don’t sign your posts.

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  34. They seem to be more of a ramification of a hasty cut and paste of outdated information.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  35. It was a whistle for you to respond. And it worked.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  36. Did you read your dumb link?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  37. Ah the puppetmaster defense.

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  38. Is that what you call your problem? It did seem like something was up your butt.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  39. Via Facebook messenger, the man told the Daily Dot that he’s received multiple threats from people who falsely believe he’s on the jury and biased against Rittenhouse. He provided the Daily Dot with a screenshot of a purported threat in which someone used racist and homophobic slurs against him and claimed the judge had been informed of his conduct.

    “You better step down peacefully or you’ll be taken out,” the message said.

    “They’re probably making it up or lying” – BuDuh

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  40. The Far Right!!!

    Aughhhh!!!!

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  41. “Reports are 2 jurors are upholding the aquittal, citing fear of backlash and doxing.”

    Took a little digging, but the report is by Jack “Pizzagate” Posobiec.

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1460735255342690311

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  42. “Why did President Biden suggest that Kyle Rittenhouse, on trial in Kenosha, is a white supremacist?” Mr Doocy asked the press secretary in Monday’s briefing.

    Ms Psaki paused and could be heard letting out a deep sigh before saying that she would not comment on an ongoing trial but that the president is against “vigilantes patrolling our communities with assault weapons”.

    “So, Peter, what I’m not going to speak to right now is anything about an ongoing trial, nor the president’s past comments,” she said.

    “What I can reiterate for you is the president’s view that we shouldn’t have, broadly speaking, vigilantes patrolling our communities with assault weapons.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/jen-psaki-sighs-fox-reporter-162645404.html

    I am not surprised that some here are with Team Biden on this one.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  43. Still no actual sourcing.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  44. “I ain’t even gonna name the people that I know that’s up in the Kenosha trial,” Rice said in the video, which is going viral on social media. “But it’s cameras in there. It’s definitely cameras up in there. There’s definitely people taking pictures of the jurors and everything like that. We know what’s going on.” Referring to the Daunte Wright case, he said of Rittenhouse: “so we need the same results, man.”

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/11/08/cortez-rice/

    The Far Right?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  45. “Reports are 2 jurors are upholding the aquittal, citing fear of backlash and doxing.”

    Took a little digging, but the report is by Jack “Pizzagate” Posobiec.

    Who is as likely to know the jury’s deliberations as he is likely to know the street names of the lost city of Atlantis.

    nk (1d9030)

  46. And I’ll tell you something else, too. If there is “unrest” after the verdict, you will see mostly, if not exclusively, white faces there. I doubt black people will care all that much about poor white trash shooting other poor white trash.

    nk (1d9030)

  47. Nk,

    Antifa is mostly white. They are the left’s stormtroopers. No argument.

    NJRob (b248a5)

  48. “They are the left’s stormtroopers. ”

    If you believe Posobiec, you’ll pretty much believe anything.

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  49. Thulu,

    You’ve been defending antifa and their violence for ages. Why is that?

    NJRob (b248a5)

  50. Here’s one from French, and I don’t agree with this part.

    I am the last person to argue against effective, armed self-defense. I exercise my Second Amendment rights to both keep and to bear arms. I’m loath to delegate my responsibility to protect my family entirely or even mainly to the state. But I completely reject the notion that I have a right to intimidate my fellow citizens. I don’t have a right to use my weapons to make them afraid.

    After the jury renders its verdict for or against Rittenhouse, it will be time to change the debate. As American politics becomes increasingly polarized and increasingly vicious, it’s time to fundamentally rethink open carry, both as a matter of ethics and a matter of law.

    This commentary bothers me because French is trying to limit open-carry based on what may or may not be in a person’s heart, where it’s okay to carry a rifle for self-defense reasons but not okay if your intention is to “intimidate”. I’ll say this: If a guy is approaching me on the street with an AR15 in a low-ready position, I’m pretty sure I’ll be intimidated regardless of the guy’s intentions.

    However, and even though Judge Schroeder ruled otherwise, it would be prudent IMO to not allow minors to open-carry anywhere except for a supervised hunting or shooting range situation. To that extent, I agree with French.

    First, Kyle Rittenhouse wasn’t a hero. He was remarkably foolish to grab a rifle and insert himself into Kenosha’s unrest. He had no business walking into that fray. Second, his foolishness did not eliminate his right to self-defense.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  51. Antifa is mostly white. They are the left’s stormtroopers. No argument.

    A perfect example of white privilege. Black folk know that they’d get the book thrown at them if they tried that crap, but these young white hooligans assume that it’s OK for them to do it, because Mommy and Daddy have good lawyers. See also Bill Ayers.

    The sad part is that they are mostly right, but miss the irony entirely.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  52. Paul- switch it around: ‘First, Ashli Babbitt wasn’t a hero. She was remarkably foolish to grab a backpack and insert herself into the Capitol unrest. She had no business walking into that fray. Second, her foolishness did not eliminate her right to self-defense.’ So she should have brought a AR-15– instead of a backpack?! Vigilantism is wrong headed from all points of the compass.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  53. DCSCA, Babbitt was the head of the spear of a violent mob. It would be foolish for her to claim self-defense when she was one of the rioters initiating the attack on the Capitol.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  54. @53. You mean a miracle; she’s dead.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  55. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    Dustin (a145cf)

  56. @21, Wis. Stat. § 946.69. Falsely assuming to act as a public officer or employee or a utility
    employee….

    (2) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

    (a) Assumes to act in an official capacity or to perform an official function, knowing that he or she
    is not the public officer or public employee or the employee of a utility that he or she assumes to
    be.
    (b) Exercises any function of a public office, knowing that he or she has not qualified so to act or
    that his or her right so to act has ceased.

    Rittenhouse or the other militia members had no authority to confront or impede anyone…or to patrol about properties they neither owned or were retained to provide security for. The theory is that you can’t act like police if you are not trained, supervised, and legally authorized to act like police. Most state have such laws. I’m not aware if these laws have ever been used against vigilantes.

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  57. The very next statute deals with “peace officers.” A “public officer” is a different entity.

    30) “Public officer”; “public employee”. A “public officer” is any person appointed or elected according to law to discharge a public duty for the state or one of its subordinate governmental units. A “public employee” is any person, not an officer, who performs any official function on behalf of the state or one of its subordinate governmental units and who is paid from the public treasury of the state or subordinate governmental unit.

    Vs

    22) “Peace officer” means any person vested by law with a duty to maintain public order or to make arrests for crime, whether that duty extends to all crimes or is limited to specific crimes. “Peace officer” includes a commission warden and a university police officer, as defined in s. 175.42 (1) (b).

    Since I doesn’t appear that Rittenhouse was playing city clerk on the streets of Kenosha, do you think this is the statute that he violated?

    946.70  Impersonating peace officers, fire fighters, or other emergency personnel.
    (1) 
    (a) Except as provided in sub. (2), whoever impersonates a peace officer with intent to mislead others into believing that the person is actually a peace officer is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (b) Except as provided in sub. (2), whoever impersonates a fire fighter with intent to mislead others into believing that the person is actually a fire fighter is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) Except as provided in sub. (2), whoever impersonates an emergency medical services practitioner, as defined in s. 256.01 (5), with intent to mislead others into believing that the person is actually an emergency medical services practitioner is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (d) Except as provided in sub. (2), whoever impersonates an emergency medical responder, as defined in s. 256.01 (4p), with intent to mislead others into believing that the person is actually an emergency medical responder is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (2) Any person violating sub. (1) with the intent to commit or aid or abet the commission of a crime other than a crime under this section is guilty of a Class H felony.

    He did tell the blog reporter that he was an EMT.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  58. AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/16/2021 @ 7:46 pm

    Given the other charges the prosecutors tried I’m surprised they didn’t try this.

    Preventing a flaming dumpster from rolling into a gas station doesn’t seem like an official act or function within the context of this statute. It seems like common sense. Neither does being in a place you have a lawful right to be with a gun you’ve got a lawful right to carry.

    It’s really got you chapped that someone would try to defend themselves and their community. Why are you rooting for the rioters? Now KR is “militia” and the people rioting and burning and attacking people are “anyone”?

    frosty (f27e97)

  59. BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:06 pm

    The best money is on AJ thinking no one would take the time to lookup the statute he quoted. Sort of like how people will tell you with a straight face that a rural state with an active hunting population has a state law banning the possession of all firearms by anyone under 18.

    frosty (f27e97)

  60. It’s really got you chapped that someone would try to defend themselves and their community. Why are you rooting for the rioters? Now KR is “militia” and the people rioting and burning and attacking people are “anyone”?

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:08 pm

    It probably shouldn’t be a surprise that someone who’s deferential to state authority to a near-fanatical level, coupled with an extreme conflict-avoidance instinct, would be so worked up about a convicted multiple-child rapist, a grandma-slapping burglar, and a repeat domestic abuser all getting capped by a dude who was on his butt or in retreat mode nearly the entire encounter, during a riot that the actual designated authorities had epically failed to quell for three days at that point.

    One might actually think to question why the guys who tried to take out Kyle all just happened to be a trifecta of criminal human effluent with a history of violent behavior and low-impulse control (not including Ziminski, who likely started the whole thing off egging on Rosenbaum and firing his gun in the air, as well as Jump Kick Guy). Just a coincidence, I’m sure.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  61. “The best money is on AJ thinking no one would take the time…..”

    Sorry frosty…I’ll return to ignoring you

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  62. Patterico (e349ce) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:43 am

    is it the conventional wisdom among those who have watched the trial that Rittenhouse walks? From everything I have seen, that would be my expectation — but I have not seen that much.

    That would be my hope. It isn’t my expectation. That this farce of a trial was conducted at all and then allowed to play out like it did undermines my confidence in conventional wisdom.

    All of the jurors have to be very afraid. The local and state government was not willing to protect an entire town. They have KR on trial with a thoroughly corrupt prosecutor and a judge that is trying to thread the needle between overtly unconstitutional and arguably unconstitutional.

    If they return a not guilty who can they expect to protect them?

    frosty (f27e97)

  63. If they return a not guilty who can they expect to protect them?

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:41 pm

    I believe some of the jurors mentioned that they owned firearms, so they will at least have that going for them if Antifa and BLM decides to attack their homes.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  64. AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:37 pm

    Sorry frosty…I’ll return to ignoring you

    No need to apologize. That would be more effective if you actually ignored me. We’ll, maybe effective isn’t the right word.

    Also, you shouldn’t make promises you can’t keep.

    frosty (f27e97)

  65. Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:46 pm

    They’ve had a firsthand seat to how that works out. Still, I’m hopeful.

    frosty (f27e97)

  66. They’ve had a firsthand seat to how that works out. Still, I’m hopeful.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:53 pm

    Well, that’s the rub, isn’t it? Because for all the pearl-clutching and belly-aching about “vigilantism” going on here, they really ought to hope that such a clear-cut case of self-defense is actually judged that way.

    Because if conservatives and maybe even moderates start to get the idea that the state is going to punish them for the act of retreating and defending themselves from people trying to do them deadly harm, in a future such situation the odds are significantly greater that they might just end up going for a high score rather than attempt to get out of there, since they’re going to be persecuted anyway.

    THAT ought to worry people a lot more than members of the community taking over responsibilities that the actual authorities yeeted out from.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  67. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10208119/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-NICHOLAS-SANDMANN-media-defamation.html

    Excellent piece from Mr. Sandmann showing sympathy for the media persecution Mr. Rittenhouse has experienced as well as a hopeful way to curb those abuses.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  68. I have not watched this whole trial, but everything I have seen of this prosecutor is bad. He seems incompetent and annoying as hell. I bet the jury hates him.

    Considering the defense is claiming that he withheld the high-def drone evidence until after the trial, “bad” seems to be a rather inadequate assessment.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  69. @58. frosty: Now KR is “militia” and the people rioting and burning and attacking people are “anyone”?

    Apparently Rittenhouse’s own legal team labeled him “militia”…

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/kyle-rittenhouse-his-militia-defense-ignores-private-paramilitaries-are-illegal-ncna1239397

    ‘The legal team for 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse has called him a member of the “militia” and a “minuteman,” referring to the patriot forces that fought the British at Lexington and Concord in 1775. This terminology, though archaic, is fairly common in gun circles, with more and more radicals acting as if the U.S. Constitution deputized them to form paramilitaries.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  70. ‘…a convicted multiple-child rapist, a grandma-slapping burglar, and a repeat domestic abuser all getting capped by a dude…’

    Never knew personal/criminal records were emblazoned on clothing of victims before they were shot. OTOH, he could have ‘capped’ undercover cops.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  71. Never knew personal/criminal records were emblazoned on clothing of victims before they were shot. OTOH, he could have ‘capped’ undercover cops.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/16/2021 @ 10:17 pm

    Yes, we know, you’re weeping for your criminal allies.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  72. The opening line of DCSCA’s BREAKING NEWS from Sept of 2020:

    Sept. 5, 2020, 1:30 AM PDT
    By Erik Schechter, former military journalist
    The legal team for 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse has called him a member of the “militia” and a “minuteman,” referring to the patriot forces that fought the British at Lexington and Concord in 1775. This terminology, though archaic, is fairly common in gun circles, with more and more radicals acting as if the U.S. Constitution deputized them to form paramilitaries.

    In the case of Rittenhouse, before he allegedly shot three protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, with an AR-15-type rifle on the last Tuesday of August, he was reportedly patrolling the city streets with members of the radical Boogaloo Bois militia.

    Hahahahaha!

    What a ridiculous thing to post.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  73. DCSCA,

    yes, we know you and Thulu both expect rioters and arsonists to be upstanding citizens and are shocked that they all have extensive criminal records.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  74. Mentioned earlier but now with the addition of an actual motion to dismiss:

    Prosecutors in the Kenosha shooter trial withheld evidence from the defense that was ‘at the center of their case,’ only sharing the high-definition drone video footage on which they have hung their prosecution after the trial had concluded, DailyMail.com can reveal.

    Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger played the enhanced drone footage to the jury during his closing statements and claimed that it showed Rittenhouse ‘pointing his gun’ at people – an assertion that opened the door to the state claiming Rittenhouse provoked the violence of the night of August 25, 2020.

    Now, in the motion obtained by DailyMail.com, Rittenhouse’s defense insist that the state only shared it with the defense after evidence had closed on Saturday November 13.

    This is one just one of the grounds on which they have made a motion for a mistrial with prejudice filed by Kyle Rittenhouse’s defense Monday afternoon.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10210087/Prosecutors-Kenosha-shooter-trial-WITHHELD-evidence-defense.html

    DCSCA may want to note that this is being done by the current and actual attorneys for Rittenhouse, not the fly by night con artist that talks about militias less than a week after the shooting.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  75. The prosecution has become everything a civilized society fears: a tyrannical government that will abuse every law and destroy every truth to punish a citizen who they have deemed an enemy of the state.

    They must all be disbarred and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  76. The theory is that you can’t act like police if you are not trained, supervised, and legally authorized to act like police. Most state have such laws. I’m not aware if these laws have ever been used against vigilantes.

    AIUI, these laws are about impersonation. To read it as you do, someone who forcably stops a rape is guilty of a felony.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. I mean, really, if a citizen cannot act to prevent a crime, just because s/he isn’t directly affected, the concept of “civilization” falls apart. I don’t think it’s possible to write a statute that says that preventing a crime is OK if it “just happens” but not if you go to a place where it can be expected to happen. Nor do I think you want to envelop all of that with a felony.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. If I rescue a person from a burning building, am I now a felon?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. “To read it as you do, someone who forcably stops a rape is guilty of a felony.”

    Yes, what could go wrong with untrained, unsupervised 17yr-olds marching around town with loaded AR-15’s trying to intervene and break up heated situations that they neither have the experience nor wisdom to handle. Sure, rape is generally pretty clear but what about heated arguments….traffic disputes…how often will your “Batman” get himself into situations which he can’t handle and will have to shoot his way out in “self defense”? I’m not talking about good samaritan acts….there are laws to protect genuine acts of assistance. And I’m not talking about protecting one’s property or own life….I’m talking about self-described militias roaming through towns…armed….looking for trouble. As much as Dustin might suggest “we are all the police”, start having them stopping and detaining people…maybe conducting searches and interviews….and you start having more Trayvon Martin situations….where poorly trained individuals playing officer get themselves in over their head and default to taking a life…or abusing other’s civil liberties. There’s a reason why police receive training and why insufficient training often explains poor judgment and use of excessive force….shooting targets at the local range doesn’t prepare you to deal with mentally deranged people or people under the influence….who still merit due process and making every effort to safely detain….and not get blown away….with their personal circumstances investigated afterwards.

    Kevin, I think you clearly understand that Rittenhouse made poor decisions that night…and society should be allowed to discourage those poor decisions…to save lives. Some here will mock laws that discourage vigilantes, but put yourself on the other side of a rifle barrel pointed at your head by a 17yr old hopped up on adrenaline trying to process a complicated situation, then get back to me…

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  80. At this time I would like to use my platform to let Kyle know that I am here for you and if you ever would like to reach out to me, I am about the only person our age to have an idea of how the media is treating you. The way the media has treated you is terrible, and you don’t have to face it alone. – Nicholas Sandmann

    This resonated with me. I remember a movement to stop online bullying of minors; now we must include bullying by the media as well.

    Thanks for the link, NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/16/2021 @ 10:02 pm

    felipe (484255)

  81. Kevin, I think you clearly understand that Rittenhouse made poor decisions that night…and society should be allowed to discourage those poor decisions…to save lives. Some here will mock laws that discourage vigilantes, but put yourself on the other side of a rifle barrel pointed at your head by a 17yr old hopped up on adrenaline trying to process a complicated situation, then get back to me…
    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/17/2021 @ 3:47 am

    KR, definitely made poor choices that night, but lethally defending himself while his life was at risk are not among them.

    felipe (484255)

  82. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/16/2021 @ 11:58 pm

    If I rescue a person from a burning building, am I now a felon?

    I feel like you are willfully withholding information someone like AJ will need to answer this question. What’s the gender, ethnicity, and political position of the beneficiary of white privilege you rescued from the building owned by a participant in our systemically racist society that was set on fire by someone seeking racial justice? And tell us more about your own racism because it’s common knowledge that poc aren’t rescued from burning buildings.

    frosty (f27e97)

  83. AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/17/2021 @ 3:47 am

    You’ve strawmanned up a situation that has little to do with the KR situation other than both involve a 17 yo and an AR15.

    frosty (f27e97)

  84. KR, definitely made poor choices that night, but lethally defending himself while his life was at risk are not among them.

    felipe (484255) — 11/17/2021 @ 4:04 am

    The subjective assessment of Kyle’s choices is entirely irrelevant here. What AJ and the other “but muh trained authoroteeees!” advocates have continually failed to process, in their continuing sanctification of the state power, is that the only reason ordinary citizens may decide to take it upon themselves to protect their communities is because those same “trained authorities” in this event, from the federal level on down, utterly and completely failed to execute one of their most critical duties. That duty is to prevent lawless, criminal politically-motivated mobs from burning and threatening those communities with violence. Kenosha was in its third day of riots by that point; where were these “trained authorities”? Oh yeah, sitting on their thumbs and letting a violent left-wing mob nearly burn down a gas station, which could have had far more lethal consequences than anything Kyle did that night. Those “vigilantes” did more that night to actually quell a days-long orgy of violence than the police or National Guard ever did in that same time frame.

    Some here will mock laws that discourage vigilantes, but put yourself on the other side of a rifle barrel pointed at your head by a 17yr old hopped up on adrenaline trying to process a complicated situation, then get back to me…
    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/17/2021 @ 3:47 am

    An insipid appeal to emotion that has no bearing whatsoever on the legal necessity for self-defense, nor of the broader implications for politically-motivated mob violence. When authorities fail to protect the community, ordinary citizens will either step up and do it themselves, or they will be cowed in to submission by the mob.

    “You want your town? You’re going to have to fight for it.”

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  85. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/16/2021 @ 11:57 pm

    I mean, really, if a citizen cannot act to prevent a crime, just because s/he isn’t directly affected, the concept of “civilization” falls apart. I don’t think it’s possible to write a statute that says that preventing a crime is OK if it “just happens” but not if you go to a place where it can be expected to happen. Nor do I think you want to envelop all of that with a felony.

    Not acting to prevent a crime is exactly what it sounds like AJ is suggesting. That thread has run through several comments.

    Apparently in LA you can expect to be robbed at your home or business and your job is to be a good witness so that the police can catch the suspects.

    frosty (f27e97)

  86. I keep hoping to see some indication at the end of an AJ or DCSCA post that indicates that this is some sort of Devil’s Advocate schtick.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  87. Mr Snowman wrote:

    Sort of like how people will tell you with a straight face that a rural state with an active hunting population has a state law banning the possession of all firearms by anyone under 18.

    The people who will tell you that are the same people morally opposed to hunting in the first place.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (17bc78)

  88. DCSCA wrote:

    ‘…a convicted multiple-child rapist, a grandma-slapping burglar, and a repeat domestic abuser all getting capped by a dude…’

    Never knew personal/criminal records were emblazoned on clothing of victims before they were shot. OTOH, he could have ‘capped’ undercover cops.

    Perhaps their past criminal records were not “emblazoned” on their clothing for Mr Rittenhouse to have been able to distinguish, but their then current criminal acts were pretty obvious to him. He was being assaulted, remember? Their past criminal acts are not part of a vacuum, but a continuing part of their consistent behavior. Mr Rittenhouse only saw the tail end of that, but their past acts were part of who they were.

    You do, however, make an excellent argument for requiring very visible facial tattooing of felons like those “victims.”

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (17bc78)

  89. AIUI, these laws are about impersonation. To read it as you do, someone who forcably stops a rape is guilty of a felony.

    The law AJ would have you read has nothing to do with acting as if you were a peace officer. I tend to agree with frosty that AJ might have been counting on the code not being researched. Maybe that kind of lawyerly submission is an indicator as to why people like Binger and Kraus appeal to those who haven’t closely followed the case and trial.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  90. Why choose to be passive aggressive, BuDuh? You asked me to expound on my theory then accuse me of trying to pull something over. How does that help a good faith conversation?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  91. What was passive?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  92. I thought about this all night long, with the exception of sleeping. You are an intelligent guy. There is no way you really thought public officer was peace officer. Only a peace officer can fit the scenario that you outlined.

    I feel as though you were being deceptive and that took a bite out of the good faith portion of the discussion.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  93. You’re welcome felipe.

    NJRob (26934c)

  94. “ Because if conservatives and maybe even moderates start to get the idea that the state is going to punish them for the act of retreating and defending themselves from people trying to do them deadly harm, in a future such situation the odds are significantly greater that they might just end up going for a high score rather than attempt to get out of there, since they’re going to be persecuted anyway.”

    – Factory Working Orphan

    Pretty sure that the jerkoffs who are traveling across state lines with AR-15s to attend these protests are excited at the idea of a “high score” to begin with. They’re not going to “get the idea” – they already have it.

    Leviticus (47ff54)

  95. Add one more to the group “Didn’t follow the case/Didn’t watch the trial.”

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  96. Considering the defense is claiming that he withheld the high-def drone evidence until after the trial, “bad” seems to be a rather inadequate assessment.

    Dog bites man. Prosecutors are taught how to skirt court decisions and the rules of procedure and evidence like that. And they get away with if they have a friendly judge:

    — Your Honor, we gave the defense a copy of the same video the FBI gave us.
    — And the enhanced version you showed to the jury at closing argument?
    — That was our work product, Your Honor. We are not required to disclose it.
    — Eh? How’s that? You getting brazen with me again?
    — No, Your Honor. Our lab enhanced the video for us to make it easier to see when we used it as a demonstrative exhibit.
    — Doesn’t Rule such-and-such require you to give the defense notice of all exhibits you introduce at trial and an opportunity to inspect it?
    — But we did not enter it into evidence, Your Honor. We only used it as a demonstrative exhibit at closing argument.
    — You don’t think the jury saw it as evidence while you were arguing it?
    — Your Honor instructed the jury that closing arguments are not evidence.
    — What?!!?
    — And, besides, the time for the defense to object that we were arguing facts not in evidence, which we were not doing in the first place, was right then and there. They waived it by not objecting.

    Blah, blah, blah, blah, and if the judge does not bend over often enough, the prosecutors get a Substitution of Judge for every one of his cases, and he gets transferred to Marriage Court or, if he’s an Associate Judge, his appointment is not renewed.

    nk (1d9030)

  97. In the Third Book of Moses, it was written:

    Pretty sure that the jerkoffs who are traveling across state lines with AR-15s to attend these protests are excited at the idea of a “high score” to begin with. They’re not going to “get the idea” – they already have it.

    It seems that Mr Rittenhouse did not “(travel) across state lines” with his weapon. Rather, it was stored in Wisconsin all along.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (17bc78)

  98. I hope that Kyle is acquitted
    ‘Cause that’s the verdict that’s fitted
    That would be fair
    In the public square
    From jail he should be omitted!

    The Limerick Avenger (17bc78)

  99. Rittenhouse did good
    Taught three bad guys a lesson
    Needed to be learned

    The Limerick Avenger (17bc78)

  100. Nick Sandmann is a far better example for KR to follow post trial than George Zimmerman, I’ll give you that.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  101. What we need is written laws on the use of the deadly force by one person against another and an impartial tribunal to hear the evidence and apply the law to the facts. We should get on it on right away.

    nk (1d9030)

  102. BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/17/2021 @ 6:14 am

    Add one more to the group “Didn’t follow the case/Didn’t watch the trial.”

    I think you’re being generous. At this point how many people really don’t know some of these basic details?

    frosty (f27e97)

  103. Probably true, frosty.

    Here are some comrades of the willfully blind:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1460964744517541891

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  104. Kyle Rittenhouse prosecutors HELD BACK high-def drone footage of Kenosha shootings from defense and gave them low quality video – sparking them to file mistrial motion that could see teen walk free

    “Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger initially shared low quality drone footage from the night of the shooting with the defense

    The defense claims Binger only shared the high-definition footage after evidence had closed on Saturday
    According to a motion filed today by the defense, ‘The problem is the prosecution gave the defense a compressed version of the video’

    ‘What that means is the video provided to the defense was not as clear as the video kept by the state,’ the motion states
    Lawyers for Rittenhouse filed their motion for mistrial with prejudice based on this and several other grounds”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10210087/Prosecutors-Kenosha-shooter-trial-WITHHELD-evidence-defense.html

    One more for the list.

    Obudman (f81b2b)

  105. You can edit the blocking script (see sidebar) to block all comments with the simple adition of an extra vertical bar | right after the first parenthesis. Example: (function($){‘use strict’;var n=/^(|Whosis|Whatsis|Howsis). The signature line will still show, but the body of the comment will not. Then you can click only on the signature line of the person whose comment you want to read and it will open only that comment.

    nk (1d9030)

  106. It’s not at all awkward. I just read 102 to 104 that way and took my time doing it too. Worth it to skip the VPN troll.

    nk (1d9030)

  107. The defense claims Binger only shared the high-definition footage after evidence had closed on Saturday

    This brings up an “inside-baseball” question for you criminal lawyers. If presenting evidence to a grand jury for an indictment (or some other prelim), is the prosecution required to present exculpatory evidence in its possession?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. “Pretty sure that the jerkoffs who are traveling across state lines with AR-15s to attend these protests are excited at the idea of a “high score” to begin with. They’re not going to “get the idea” – they already have it.”

    Add Demosthenes to the blocking script, we got a worked-up volunteer malicious prosector’s aide doing his best to help the state suborn perjury by introducing his lurid TV-movie fantasies over here!

    Script Expert Bot (05b54c)

  109. Kevin, I think you clearly understand that Rittenhouse made poor decisions that night…and society should be allowed to discourage those poor decisions…to save lives. Some here will mock laws that discourage vigilantes, but put yourself on the other side of a rifle barrel pointed at your head by a 17yr old hopped up on adrenaline trying to process a complicated situation, then get back to me…

    You mean while I am out and about burning, looting and chasing after people with malicious intent? Context matters and you keep misplacing it.

    Of course he made bad decisions. He’s 17. What other kind of decisions could he make?

    But the other there were responsible for their OWN bad decisions. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  110. But let’s look at this term we keep throwing around: “vigilante.” It’s a loaded term, and mostly used to mean those who “take the law into their own hands” and particularly by avenging, as opposed to preventing.

    There is a big difference between a community rising up to defend itself and a lynch mob or death squad, yet that is the kind of connotation that “vigilante” has. The Arbery case is a lot closer to “vigilante” that what Rittenhouse was doing.

    This was more High Noon than Death Wish, and conflating the two as some commenters have tended to do, is not helpful.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  111. Psaki said “vigilante” so the faithful must repeat it..

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  112. If presenting evidence to a grand jury for an indictment (or some other prelim), is the prosecution required to present exculpatory evidence in its possession?

    Yes and no. It would be unethical to present half-truths, but they don’t have to argue against their own case. In practice, they avoid it by the simple expedient of sticking to the arrest report, leaving the onus on the police.

    nk (1d9030)

  113. Kevin, you have to realize, AJ’s operating within the ‘junkie mindset’ moral universe…he’s part of the ‘halfway house community’.

    >Fellow junkies, other criminals, cops and parole officers you’re cool with?

    “That’s okay, man!”

    >Normal people asking things like ‘why are people loading guns into the back?’ ‘Who are all these people staggering half-naked around the yard?’ ‘Why was my son found here after being missing for 48 hours?’ ‘What the hell is going on inside?’

    COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE VIGILANTE BEHAVIOR!
    YOU MUST BE HOPPED UP ON THE ‘ADRENALINE’ DRUG!
    WHY ARE YOU BEING CONFRONTATIONAL?
    WHERE’S YOUR TRAINING OR CERTIFICATION FOR COMMUNICATING WITH ME?
    AM I BEING DETAINED?
    YOU CROSSED MY SOVEREIGN GAS STATION LOT TERRITORY LOOKING FOR TROUBLE TO TERRORIZE ME!

    Riot Legal Observer (426243)

  114. So, even if they have evidence that the guy was in Toronto at the time, they can hide it?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  115. Kevin, you have to realize, AJ’s operating within the ‘junkie mindset’ moral universe…he’s part of the ‘halfway house community’.

    You are talking to a guy who has detoxed heroin addicts on his couch.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  116. So, even if they have evidence that the guy was in Toronto at the time, they can hide it?

    If they don’t believe it. If they are satisfied with their own evidence that he was at the scene of the crime. Alibi is a triable issue. In Illinois, it must be raised by the defendant, at trial, with advance notice to the prosecution.

    nk (1d9030)

  117. What is the justification in THIS case, for withholding exculpatory video evidence? Releasing a low-res version doesn’t seem quite the same as “not believing it.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  118. You are talking to a guy who has detoxed heroin addicts on his couch.

    I exaggerate. Only the once and long ago.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  119. “You are talking to a guy who has detoxed heroin addicts on his couch.”

    I commend you for that. Some of us have to detox their demons on public forums.

    And of course, there’s a world of difference between someone who accepts the patronage of a close friend with a problem they know they have and are committed to stopping…versus someone who joins a community of permanent offenders to indulge that addiction in a ‘welcoming’ ‘community’ of fellow permanent burnouts, doing nothing but at best generating a stream of caseloads for the local police attorneys, at worst serving as a prime environment for other related acts of criminality.

    Riot Legal Observer (0866f5)

  120. What is the justification in THIS case, for withholding exculpatory video evidence? Releasing a low-res version doesn’t seem quite the same as “not believing it.”

    Heh! See my Comment 96.

    nk (1d9030)

  121. We really need to free Kyle
    Self defense is part of our style
    Attack us you do
    A bullet goes through
    And now you walk down your last mile

    The Limerick Avenger (17bc78)

  122. It is said, but only God is All-Knowing, that one U.S. Territorial Judge’s Deputy Marshalls had to pay for the funerals of the men they killed but the court would pay for theirs if they were killed. Would that be a restraint on itchy trigger-fingers if we applied it generally, do you think?

    nk (1d9030)

  123. nk wrote:

    Would that be a restraint on itchy trigger-fingers if we applied it generally, do you think?

    Nope, I don’t think. At least in Mr Rittenhouse’s case, the decisions to shoot were taken under extreme duress, as he was being attacked. And, realistically speaking, decisions to shoot someone else are either taken with extreme malice, such that worrying about paying burial costs would rank far below worrying about how to get away with it, or under instant decision situations.

    The Limerick Avenger (17bc78)

  124. “Would that be a restraint on itchy trigger-fingers if we applied it generally, do you think?”

    ‘But enough about prosecutors and their immediately relevant depraved behavior, how about those US Marshals, amirite?”

    All that oblique muttering about utterly criminal prosecutorial tricks and yet no discussion of “Should prosecutors pay legal fees, damages, and imprisonment fees for those wrongfully or maliciously charged?”

    A strong indication that ‘where your treasure is, there will your indulgent, bleeding liberal heart be also.’

    “Those dirty white trash proles better be prepared to take a beating in court from heroic defenders like me if they even think of moving that deadly rifle with their hands, but everything I do should be interpreted in the kindest possible light!”

    DONT MOVE MY CHEEESE (8d1824)

  125. https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2021/11/17/this-dui-video-of-gaige-grosskreutz-is-pretty-interesting-n429845

    The star criminal in the persecution of Kyle Rittenhouse was arrested for a DWI a few weeks after his rioting, but the case was magically dropped just days before he emoted on the stand for the prosecution.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  126. 50 David French quoted by Paul Montagu.

    First, Kyle Rittenhouse wasn’t a hero. He was remarkably foolish to grab a rifle and insert himself into Kenosha’s unrest. He had no business walking into that fray. Second, his foolishness did not eliminate his right to self-defense.

    52. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/16/2021 @ 6:01 pm

    Paul- switch it around: ‘First, Ashli Babbitt wasn’t a hero. She was remarkably foolish to grab a backpack and insert herself into the Capitol unrest. She had no business walking into that fray. Second, her foolishness did not eliminate her right to self-defense.’ So she should have brought a AR-15– instead of a backpack?! Vigilantism is wrong headed from all points of the compass.

    53. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/16/2021 @ 6:27 pm

    DCSCA, Babbitt was the head of the spear of a violent mob. It would be foolish for her to claim self-defense when she was one of the rioters initiating the attack on the Capitol.

    54. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/16/2021 @ 7:28 pm

    @53. You mean a miracle; she’s dead.

    In that scenario, things turned out differently, and instead of getting killed, she killed or injured someone, although in the real scenario, some armor and a helmet would have helped. So we must imagine a different sort of confrontation. The bottom line is, though, your alternate analogy just isn’t similar.

    Ashli Babbitt atempting to guard the Capitol from members of the Jan 6 mob would be somewhat similar.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  127. https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/-qanon-shaman-gets-41-month-prison-sentence-for-capitol-riot

    (Bloomberg) — Jacob Chansley, the self-proclaimed “QAnon Shaman” who wore a coyote-skin headdress into the Senate chamber, was sentenced to more than three years in prison for his role in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. Chansley, 34, was sentenced on Wednesday to 41 months by U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth in Washington. Though less than the 51 months federal prosecutors had requested, the punishment.

    “What you did here was horrific,” the judge said in imposing sentence.

    3 years and five months in the pokie. And he didn’t shoot anybody.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  128. There is a big difference between a community rising up to defend itself and a lynch mob or death squad, yet that is the kind of connotation that “vigilante” has. The Arbery case is a lot closer to “vigilante” that what Rittenhouse was doing.

    Not necessarily:

    vigilante
    [ˌvijəˈlan(t)ē]
    NOUN
    a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  129. According to a motion filed today by the defense, ‘The problem is the prosecution gave the defense a compressed version of the video’

    They were probably too stupid to understand the difference between the highest quality files, and the lossy versions they produced. Until they decided to use it court to try to show that Kyle Rittenhouse was menacing people.

    The defense is claiming that the prosecution deliberately made this mistake in order to provoke a mistrial, presumably because they were afraid of losing the case – therefore double jeopardy should kick in.

    The defense is just throwing something up and seeing whether it will stick.

    You really can’t say the mob was afraid of Kyle Rittenhouse, let alone so afraid that they apprached and attacked him, or atemoted to disarm him, because he clearly was not wantonly going to shoot anyone – too much time passed – and because they were threatening him (and others) before.

    And because the natural instinct, if not cornered, would be to run away, but nobody did that until he fired.

    You do have to consider the overall situation.

    They thought Kyle Rittenhouse was smarter than what he was, and would know that they wouldn’t dare to try to kill him because that would create difficulty in their jobs as professional anarchists.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  130. I think maybe the word “vigilante” meaning someone who keeps watch, has expanded from its original meaning in some contexts.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  131. DC/Sammy are wandering off base a bit due to their individual biases (making their exchanges instructive!)

    Ash wasn’t the “tip” of any “spear”-she was a fired-up member of a crowd of demonstrators and glory-hounds making their voices heard in America’s most public of public houses-and they didn’t need to set trash cans on fire or directly run up on anyone, law enforcement or otherwise-when the police moved out of their way, they filed in in an orderly fashion, didn’t pursue them individually or as a unit.

    And she got shot in the head immediately for the crime of poking her head near a window by a personal Congressional ‘security guard’ who had the habit of leaving his weapon in the bathroom. No prior provocation, no imminent threat, no criminal record comparable to the Kenosha trash mobs, just …what was the word…an unauthorized militia defending property he didn’t own and was not asked specifically to defend as part of his job that hadn’t yet been trespassed with unreasonably deadly force. Why wasn’t he with his

    At the very least, anyone who had anything callous or hurtful to say about Ms. Babbit’s fate should have words just as strong or much stronger for all those who insult Kyle (they don’t, they save those for when they feel personally invested with those threatened, and primarily identifying with Congresspeople is something only a very specific set of amoral brown-nosers do.)

    DCSCA is actually trying to be “consistent” in his two positions, which I think is admirable but entirely wrong-headed. Kyle and Ashli can both be right for the same reasons-they were both young, brave, independent-minded All-American spirits facing down a crowd of mixed incompetents, time-servers, propagandized acolytes, and outright criminals endorsed by the Democrat party to stand for values that transcended the evil age they currently lived in, and we shall remember their sacrifices forever.

    Peeking Dangerously (2e88ea)

  132. Kevin M @118.

    withholding exculpatory video evidence?

    The prosecution did not think it was exculpatory — they thought it was incriminating.

    The defense, possibly, was deprived of the ability to make a counterargument, or just of the time to think of a response, or to introduce evidence, or stress in argument, things that went counter to the inference that the prosecution was attempting to make.

    In this case, the prosecution did not enhance the video – they went back to the original.

    It’s the difference between a digital picture you take with your camera, and a lower resolution version you might have sent in email or posted on the Internet.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  133. “Vigilante” is California Spanglish. From around San Francisco, from around 1850. Described groups of the new white settlers clearing out the native Spanish speakers, and the word remained when they they turned their forays against the underworld of the Barbary Coast. East of California, in the cattle and mining country, they were called, and called themselves, “stranglers”, as late as the end of the 19th century.

    nk (1d9030)

  134. Peeking Dangerously (2e88ea) — 11/17/2021 @ 11:39 am

    Ash wasn’t the “tip” of any “spear”-she was a fired-up member of a crowd of demonstrators and glory-hounds making their voices heard in America’s most public of public houses-and they didn’t need to set trash cans on fire or directly run up on anyone, law enforcement or otherwise-when the police moved out of their way, they filed in in an orderly fashion, didn’t pursue them individually or as a unit.

    We’re talking not about the fact that Aslli Babbitt went into the Capitol – others broke the police lines – there she was not – there she was not the tip f the spear. She was the tip of spear in trying to break into the place where the members of Congress were.

    And she got shot in the head immediately for the crime of poking her head near a window by a personal Congressional ‘security guard’

    After he had warned he was armed.

    There were people behind her encouraging and helping her get in. Now he could have waited somewhat, at the risk of having to shoot many people or being shot because he had no idea what kind of weapons the people trying to break in had, but their persisting in the face of threats argued for them having some weapons (actually some people in the crowd were bluffing – they didn’t have any firearms because of DC anti-gun laws – and they were using Ashli Babbitt as a pawn.)

    You can say that people who just dismiss her life are wrong to be callous – here and with other people in other circumstances too. Her cause was wrong, though.

    or hurtful to say about Ms. Babbit’s fate should

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  135. “She was the tip of spear in trying to break into the place where the members of Congress were.”

    There were no Members of Congress in the room at the time, they had been evacuated long before the incident. Something you could probably verify by looking through the windoBLAM!

    “After he had warned he was armed.”

    So was everyone other riot policeman lining the hall there. Sounds like there was no real communication between forces on site, probably because the security guard was taking on a job he wasn’t prepared for, had not been assigned to do, and had no training in! It’s amazing how well the liberal logic works when you actually use it on a case it matches and it was made for!

    “There were people behind her encouraging and helping her get in. Now he could have waited somewhat, at the risk of having to shoot many people or being shot because he had no idea what kind of weapons the people trying to break in had

    Again, why no communication with the rest of the DC police standing not a few feet away? Was this a “not-so-organized-militia” of private security guards who left the Congresspeople they were supposed to guard to grandstand about killing enemies of the state for an eventual promotion?

    “Her cause was wrong, though.”

    Her cause was absolutely right and strongly supported by precedent. If this and the Kyle Trial are showing anything, it’s that plodding on with prior procedure when one side is demonstrably shady and untrustworthy is not a recipe for unity, trust, or loyalty. As nk so helpfully demonstrated, a Bingerman and his cronies is not an exception, he’s the rule, or at least the rule on the left. Why respect procedures that such people wipe their asses with on the daily?

    By Any Windows Necessary (48c898)

  136. I am shocked, SHOCKED to find out that Prosecutors Tubby and Hipster actually had Handbrake installed on their personal computers to helpfully diddle videos the way they get diddled by the judges they live with prior to sending them to the defense, which really wrecks their ‘we just don’t understand computers lol’ defense.

    Judge Boomer better mistrial this with prejudice if anything other than full acquittal comes through.

    Flufferboy420 (f42b3f)

  137. “Her cause was absolutely right and strongly supported by precedent.”

    What was her cause?

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  138. There were no Members of Congress in the room at the time, they had been evacuated long before the incident.

    False. Members of Congress were seen evacuating be seen from Babbitt’s vantage point. It was on video (here at around the 27:20 mark). Also, Babbitt was warned prior to getting shot.

    The officer’s statement matches the account of a fellow member of the pro-Trump mob, Thomas Baranyi, who caught Babbitt as she fell back. Baranyi, who still had Babbitt’s blood on his hand when he spoke to a local news crew outside the Capitol minutes later, said that “a number of police and Secret Service were saying, ‘Get back, get down, get out of the way.’ She didn’t heed the call.”

    Further evidence that Byrd’s warning was clear to those around Babbitt comes from graphic video of the shooting posted on Twitter less than 40 minutes after the event by another witness. Those images clearly show that Baranyi, who was wearing a backward blue Trump cap and standing close to Babbitt, raised his hand and nodded in Byrd’s direction to signal his compliance with the command to stay back. Three seconds later, Babbitt climbed into the window to cross the barricade and was shot.

    Babbitt was no hero. If anything, she was a victim and a fool for falling for Trump’s big fat lie that the election was “stolen”.

    Paul Montagu (1888f5)

  139. Exactly, Paul.

    nk was both scorchingly funny and accurate regarding Babbitt: “I regret that I have but one brain cell to give for my orange fetish.”

    norcal (b9a35f)

  140. “Vigilante” is California Spanglish. From around San Francisco, from around 1850. Described groups of the new white settlers clearing out the native Spanish speakers, and the word remained when they they turned their forays against the underworld of the Barbary Coast. East of California, in the cattle and mining country, they were called, and called themselves, “stranglers”, as late as the end of the 19th century.”

    And they took their targets to the Verdugo Hills.
    Or not. Depends on who you ask.

    steveg (e81d76)

  141. It seems that Mr Rittenhouse did not “(travel) across state lines” with his weapon. Rather, it was stored in Wisconsin all along.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (17bc78) — 11/17/2021 @ 6:21 am

    One thing that’s become stunningly obvious with this trial in particular is how utterly deceitful the mainstream media has become in service to the messaging of the DNC and left-wing activists groups. If your only source of knowledge on this case has been news reports, you haven’t gotten the facts, you’ve gotten a distorted, fun-house version that’s left you completely ill-informed about what happened.

    One such example is the total kid glove treatment given to fake parademic, grandma-slapping burglar Gage Grosskreutz, who has been given not one, but two softball interviews on national TV by sympathetic media fellow travelers, one of which included him blatantly lying about what he had testified on the stand just a day before. Another is left-wingers finding out just this week that none of the guys Rittenhouse shot were black.

    Absolutely nothing the mainstream media says can be taken at face value anymore, especially the ones who’ve come out of J-schools in the last 20 years, because they’re trained to be liars, hacks, and political activists, not journalists. It shouldn’t take the Daily Mail, of all rags, to break the news that the prosecution withheld exculpatory evidence.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  142. “The defense is concerned about the drone video. Also complaining about when received drone video. Also, defense attorney Richards tells the court that the manual for AMP imaging software apparently says methods used in this case are intended for investigative purposes only, not for forensic use in court. When Judge Schroeder asks Binger if that’s true, Binger’s response is that information is not in evidence.”

    Binger is an insufferable prick now, god help the state of wisconsin if he wins.
    Kraus is unlikeable because he is in way over his depth at this stage of his life and seems to have chosen option, “be a whinging A hole”

    steveg (e81d76)

  143. Paul Montagu (1888f5) — 11/17/2021 @ 2:30 pm

    Babbitt was no hero. If anything, she was a victim and a fool for falling for Trump’s big fat lie that the election was “stolen”.

    That didn’t get her killed, and there were many others who fell for the same lie.

    Falllng for the idea that she should lead the charge into the lobby of the chamber of the House of Representatives while members of Congress were nearby after a guard had pulled his gun is what got her killed..

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-shot-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-riot-breaks-silence-n1277736

    Soon a horde of demonstrators arrived. Byrd, a 28-year veteran of the Capitol Police, took a defensive posture with his gun drawn as rioters smashed the glass doors.

    He said he yelled repeatedly for them to get back. But the mob kept pressing forward, and then a lone rioter tried to climb through one of the doors.

    What happened next was captured on video: Byrd fired one shot, striking Babbitt in the shoulder.

    Babbitt, 35, an Air Force veteran and ardent supporter of former President Donald Trump, fell to the ground; she died from her injuries later.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  144. “Back in the old days,” he went on, “Jack Moore, as I relates, is kettle-tender an’ does the rope work of the Stranglers. Whatever is the Stranglers? Which you asks Borne late. I mentions this assembly a heap frequent yeretofore. Well, some folks calls ‘ern the ‘vig’lance committee’; but that’s long for a name, so in Wolfville we allers allooded to ’em as ` Stranglers.’ This yere is brief, an’ likewise sheds some light.

    Alfred Henry Lewis, Wolfville (1902)

    nk (1d9030)

  145. As an Illinois resident, I can buy a long gun in Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky. All the states that border Illinois. It’s one of those “loopholes” in the law.

    nk (1d9030)

  146. More aisle cleanup:

    “Babbitt was no hero. If anything, she was a victim”

    Even discounting your ghoulish worship of ‘the democratic process’ as the highest good and affronts against it as The Only Truly Unforgiveable Sin, her life up to that point was fuller, more honest, more in keeping with what everyday Americans experiences, and more exemplary than any of her detractors, as was Kyle Rittenhouse’s.

    Whenever you see acts of actual physical courage, you hate it, because you ain’t it.

    “nk was both scorchingly funny and accurate regarding Babbitt: “I regret that I have but one brain cell to give for my orange fetish.”

    AND DID YOU HEAR THE ONE WHERE NK CALLED KYLE RITTENHOUSE ‘WHITE TRASH?’ ENDLESS KNEE-SLAPPERS FROM THE KING OF COMEDY! IT FEELS SO GOOD TO HAVE PROFESSIONAL FUNNYMEN WRITE JOKES THAT CATER TO MY PERSONAL POLITICS! HOW ABOUT THAT JOHN OLIVER!

    JOEL SIEGEL ON GOOD MORNING AMERICA GIVES THESE LAZY AND UNFUNNY JOKES FOUR STARS…A MASTERPIECE!!!

    “He said he yelled repeatedly for them to get back. But the mob kept pressing forward, and then a lone rioter tried to climb through one of the doors

    AHEM: The side window, farthest from visual range of the gun, with piled-up furniture seriously impeding her mobility and vision in front and to the side, and everyone else yelling at the same time. Easiest separation, detainment and arrest once she gets through you’ve ever seen, assuming any of the backup on the other side felt like assisting rather than just letting them mill around and shout slogans like they’d been doing all day. Why do all media descriptions of these events insist on portraying things other than as the video clearly shows? (j/k, we all know why.)

    Not to mention all the other security personnel ambling around on their cell phones in the background milling around and looking bored and the furthest thing from IN FEAR OF THEIR IMMINENT DEATH. Only one of their number was HYPED UP on KILLJUICE that day, who of course got commended rather than ostracized for breaking something much more sacred than a glass door.

    Verry Zen (2f91b6)

  147. Whenever you see acts of actual physical courage, you hate it, because you ain’t it.

    Mindreading is an intellectually lazy and dishonest practice. This ain’t about my feelings, or what you’re divining my feelings are, it’s about Babbitt’s foolish decision to join a violent mob that disrupted the peaceful transition of power, all in obeisance to Trump’s constant stream of lies.
    Oh, and for the record, I didn’t see “courage”, I saw undiluted fanaticism.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  148. This is the behavior of a frothing fanatical zealot.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  149. Pretty sure that the jerkoffs who are traveling across state lines with AR-15s to attend these protests are excited at the idea of a “high score” to begin with.

    Hey Leviticus. Nice to see you.

    Btw, Rittenhouse did not do that. Check out this piece:

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/15/viral-image/kyle-rittenhouses-mother-did-not-bring-him-kenosha/

    Patterico (e349ce)

  150. Apparently there is a report the jury bus was being followed from court by MSNBC. Reminds me of that journalist in Die Hard.

    Dustin (150498)

  151. Was it this story, Dustin, or a second attempt?

    nk (1d9030)

  152. No, a second attempt.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  153. Even discounting your ghoulish worship of ‘the democratic process’ as the highest good and affronts against it as The Only Truly Unforgiveable Sin

    Socko tells us who he is in his very zen #146. Believe him.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  154. Dustin,

    it’s been confirmed. And he worked for them. Now they are trying to say he’s merely a freelancer.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  155. It is said, but only God is All-Knowing, that one U.S. Territorial Judge’s Deputy Marshalls had to pay for the funerals of the men they killed but the court would pay for theirs if they were killed. Would that be a restraint on itchy trigger-fingers if we applied it generally, do you think?

    These days they don’t even have to pay for lawsuits they cause.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  156. Now they are trying to say he’s merely a freelancer.

    It may be that they are all freelancers these days.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  157. It’s the difference between a digital picture you take with your camera, and a lower resolution version you might have sent in email or posted on the Internet.

    Sure. The “oops” explanation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  158. If anything, she was a victim and a fool

    Charging in at armed protection details isn’t a survival trait.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  159. It’s one of those “loopholes” in the law.

    It’s good to know that there are still loopholes that you can see the 2nd Amendment through.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  160. The marvelous Mr M wrote:

    Now they are trying to say he’s merely a freelancer.

    It may be that they are all freelancers these days.

    According to The New York Times, not exactly an evil reich wing source, the man in question, James Morrison, identified himself as a “producer” for MSNBC, and that he was instructed by “someone in New York” to follow the bus. Supposedly, no photos of jurors were obtained.

    But photos aren’t what was desired. The idea was to send a message to the jurors, that they would not remain anonymous, and thus they could be somehow held accountable if they didn’t deliver the right verdict.

    How can there be any reasonable outcome but the declaration of a mistrial with prejudice? That way, it’s all on the judge who takes the decision, and MSNBC, for their interference, and not the jurors.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (338514)

  161. the man in question, James Morrison, identified himself as a “producer” for MSNBC, and that he was instructed by “someone in New York” to follow the bus. Supposedly, no photos of jurors were obtained.

    They are presuming the most innocent explanation: That they wanted to photograph the jurors. (and facial recognition software can still be used to find out some of their names, although that’s being limited more these days – but not yet:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/technology/facebook-facial-recognition.html

    https://about.fb.com/news/2021/11/update-on-use-of-face-recognition

    In the coming weeks, Meta will shut down the Face Recognition system on Facebook as part of a company-wide move to limit the use of facial recognition in our products. As part of this change, people who have opted in to our Face Recognition setting will no longer be automatically recognized in photos and videos, and we will delete the facial recognition template used to identify them.

    This change will represent one of the largest shifts in facial recognition usage in the technology’s history. More than a third of Facebook’s daily active users have opted in to our Face Recognition setting and are able to be recognized, and its removal will result in the deletion of more than a billion people’s individual facial recognition templates.

    More likely than just getting pictures, they were trying to find out the home addresses of the jurors, or at least the pick-up point where they all gathered, and then, from the knowledge of the pick-up point, maybe after two or three more days, if the trial lasted that long, they might find out the names of the jurors or where they lived.

    This would be for interviews after the case was over.

    There might be some worse intentions in mind on the part of someone at MSNBC, or someone who persuaded someone at MSNBC to try this, but we don’t know enough to outright suspect that.

    Also a media outlet like MSNBC while catering to and trying to promote prejudice (in the legal sense of the word) is unlikely to actually be trying to affect the verdict.

    In any case the jurors were not made aware of this. The court became aware of this because the car following the juror bus ran a red light.

    What happened is that MSNBC got kicked out of the courtroom.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  162. If he is indeed a freelancer it’s more likely he had something nefarious in mind – he could have been paid off by a private detective.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  163. Breaking- Rittenhouse verdict is in.

    tick-tock… tick-tock…

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  164. NOT GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS!

    Now sue the b-tards.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  165. Yay!

    nk (1d9030)

  166. “There’ll be a hot time in the ol’town tonight.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  167. Now toddlers will be crossing state lines and going full vigilante everywhere!

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  168. Meet Gaetz’s new intern, and over 17, too.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  169. merrick garland isn’t going to stand for this

    JF (e1156d)

  170. Only nk will get this:

    My message to Kyle Rittenhouse…be more like Alejandro Hernandez and less like Rolando Cruz.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  171. It’s Jets vs, Jets tonight, DCSCA, no biggie…but now it’s a ton of pressure on the Arbery jury.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  172. Perversion from Paul.

    Sore loser?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  173. ULB-
    Then there’s this:

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/30/biden-links-kyle-rittenhouse-to-white-supremacists/

    ‘Biden links Kyle Rittenhouse to white supremacists; Lin Wood vows to ‘rip Joe into shreds’

    Joe got it wrong again. At least he’s consistent.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  174. It’s International Men’s Day, and the best example of one just walked out a free man.

    Here is the new set of ‘moderate consensus’ positions I’ll accept from everyone going forward:

    BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT RITTENHOUSE

    DEATH TO THE LYING MEDIA

    DEATH TO LYING LIBERAL PROSECUTORS

    DEATH TO THE FUNDERS, ORGANIZERS, AND PARTICIPANTS OF EVERY FUTURE ANTIFA RENT-A-MOB

    4doorwhormobile (a86009)

  175. @171. ULB- Remember that old line from David Frye’s 1971 LP ‘Richard Nixon: Superstar‘…

    ‘… we’ll sit around and groove on the rubble.’ 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  176. ‘Now toddlers will be crossing state lines and going full vigilante everywhere!’

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  177. Perversion from Paul.
    Sore loser?

    Perversion? I already said that Rittenhouse would likely get acquitted. It’s a fact that Gaetz offered him a job and it’s a fact that he likes ’em young.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  178. 174. Sounds like something that came out of Iran.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  179. 173. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/19/2021 @ 10:42 am

    Joe got it wrong again. At least he’s consistent.

    He gets everything wrong, and it’sobvious. He consistently makes wrong predictions. It’s the wrong predictions that are driving his poll rating down on the kind of of job he is doing,, not anything specific.

    Right now, he settled on the idea that Democrats popularity will go up because of the infrastructure bill when people see the results. Didn’t he learn 10 years ago that there are no longer any shovel ready projects unless you cut out many of the rules?

    And then there’s the idea that if they pass the build Better Back bill people will like Democrats again – but they can’t in the Senate.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2377 secs.