Patterico's Pontifications

11/12/2021

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:50 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

First news item

Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy:

A federal grand jury has returned an indictment against former Donald Trump adviser Steve Bannon for contempt of Congress, the Justice Department announced Friday.

Attorney General Merrick Garland has been under tremendous political pressure to indict Bannon since the House referred the Trump ally to the Justice Department for contempt on October 21.

“Since my first day in office, I have promised Justice Department employees that together we would show the American people by word and deed that the Department adheres to the rule of law, follows the facts and the law, and pursues equal justice under the law,” Garland said in a statement Friday.

“Today’s charges reflect the Department’s steadfast commitment to these principles.”

Bannon, 67, was charged with one count related to his refusal to appear for a deposition and another related to his refusal to produce documents. Each count carries a minimum of 30 days and a maximum of one year in jail, the Justice Department said

You can read the indictment here.

Second news item

Ah, I see:

Former Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows did not appear for a deposition on Friday in front of the House select committee investigating January 6…setting up a potential showdown that could lead to the panel beginning a criminal referral process against him.

Committee staffers had been prepared to go forward with the interview and waited in a room on Capitol Hill with a stenographer, but started to file out of the room nine minutes after the deadline passed…

Ahead of the scheduled deposition Friday morning, Meadows’ attorney, George J. Terwilliger III, issued a statement saying his client would not cooperate with the committee until courts ruled on former President Donald Trump’s claims of executive privilege, noting “a sharp legal dispute with the committee.”

“The issues concern whether Mr. Meadows can be compelled to testify and whether, even if he could, that he could be forced to answer questions that involve privileged communications…Legal disputes are appropriately resolved by courts. It would be irresponsible for Mr. Meadows to prematurely resolve that dispute by voluntarily waiving privileges that are at the heart of those legal issues….”No matter how important the subject matter of the committee’s work, decades of litigation over Executive Privilege shows how critically important it is for a president to have access to advice and counsel without fear that political opponents in Congress will later be able to pull away the shield of confidentiality that protects candor in those communications.”

Meadows might want to re-think things:

The committee is now moving toward voting to issue a criminal referral for him to the Justice Department as well, the committee’s co-chairs –– Reps. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., and Liz Cheney, R–Wyo. –– said Friday. “Mr. Meadows’s actions today—choosing to defy the law—will force the Select Committee to consider pursuing contempt or other proceedings to enforce the subpoena,” they said in a statement.

“Mr. Meadows has failed to answer even the most basic questions, including whether he was using a private cell phone to communicate on January 6th, and where his text messages from that day are,” they said.

Third news item

Liz lets loose:

In the past week, Republican Rep. Paul Gosar tweeted a video showing a character with his face killing a figure with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s face. Several of the 13 House Republicans who backed a bipartisan infrastructure bill said they faced threats after their vote. In one profanity-laced voicemail, a caller labeled Rep. Fred Upton a “traitor” and wished death for the Michigan Republican, his family and staff…

…GOP Rep. Liz Cheney…said Gosar should be censured “for his continued indefensible activities.” And she blasted House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy for his silence on the matter.

“It’s a real symbol of his lack of strength, the lack of leadership in our conference right now, and the extent to which he and other leaders seem to have lost their moral compass…In a moment where you’ve got an avowed white nationalist in Rep. Gosar who has posted a video advocating the killing of another member, the idea that our leader will not stand against that but that he’s somehow going after and allowing attacks against 13 members who are conducting themselves in a serious and substantive way is really outrageous.”

Fourth news item

Police officer was only going to give a warning:

A police officer testified Friday he planned to give Ahmaud Arbery a trespass warning for repeatedly entering a home under construction before the 25-year-old Black man was chased and shot dead by neighbors who spotted him running from the property.

Glynn County police Officer Robert Rash said he spoke several times to the unfinished home’s owner, who sent him videos of Arbery at the site between Oct. 25 2019 and Feb. 23, 2020 — the day Arbery was killed at the end of a five-minute chase by white men in pickup trucks.

Rash said he had been looking for Arbery, whose identity was unknown at the time, in order to tell him to keep away from the home that was being built. He said police had a standard protocol for handling people caught trespassing — a misdemeanor under Georgia law.

“Once we make contact with the person on the property, we explain to them the homeowner does not want them there, they have no legal reason to be there,” Rash said. He added: ”I explain to that person, if you ever come back onto this property for any reason, you will be arrested.”

Related:

The defense attorney for one of three white men on trial in Georgia for murdering Ahmaud Arbery apologized Friday, a day after he said he didn’t want “any more black pastors” in court after the Rev. Al Sharpton sat with the slain man’s family.

“My apologies to anyone who might have inadvertently been offended,” attorney Kevin Gough, who represents William “Roddie” Bryan, told the judge before testimony began for the day.

“I will let the court know that if my statements yesterday were overly broad, I will follow up with a more specific motion on Monday putting those concerns in the proper context.”

Fifth news item

I quit! You quit! We all quit!:

Americans quit their jobs at a record pace for the second straight month in September, in many cases for more money elsewhere as companies bump up pay to fill job openings that are close to an all-time high.

The Labor Department said Friday that 4.4 million people quit their jobs in September, or about 3% of the nation’s workforce. That’s up from 4.3 million in August and far above the pre-pandemic level of 3.6 million. There were 10.4 million job openings, down from 10.6 million in August, which was revised higher.

The figures point to a historic level of turmoil in the job market as newly-empowered workers quit jobs, often for higher pay or better working conditions. Incomes are rising, Americans are spending more and the economy is growing, and employers have ramped up hiring to keep pace. Rising inflation, however, is offsetting much of the pay gains for workers…

Quitting has risen particularly sharply in industries that are mostly made up of in-person service jobs, such as restaurants, hotels, and retail, and factories where people work in close proximity. That suggests that at least some people quitting are doing so out of fear of COVID-19 and may be leaving the workforce.

Related: Why was the White House surprised by bad inflation numbers??

Sixth news item

Outrageous:

Newly released internal emails reveal that the National School Boards Association coordinated with the White House and the Department of Justice before sending President Biden the notorious letter that compared concerned parents to domestic terrorists. Emails provided to Fox News show that NSBA had coordinated with the White House for weeks beforehand.

Viola Garcia, the NSBA president whom the Department of Education later named to a federal board, sent a memo to NSBA members on Oct. 11 (but dated Oct. 12), providing a timeline of the NSBA’s interaction with the White House ahead of the letter to Biden, which the NSBA sent on Sept. 29.

Five days later, on Oct. 4, the DOJ issued a memo directing law enforcement to investigate threats to school boards. On Oct. 22, the NSBA issued an apology for the letter.

The government has no business conspiring with NSBA to compare upset parents to domestic terrorists. And parents have no business attacking school board members and/or school personnel as if they were domestic terrorists.

Seventh news item

Veteran’s heartbreaking message posted before he is believed to have killed himself at the Lincoln Memorial:

Nobody ever knows when their time will come. Even less, ever get to choose that moment. Life always has ups and downs, sometimes you don’t always come out on top. With a heavy heart, If you’re reading this, its because my time has come to an end at my own hands. (Not a joke) this is the last message to my friends and family.

The rest of the message will be on the comments since IG has a limit to text.

Thanks to all those who took the time to reach out. There was nothing you could do to save me.

Nobody ever knows who is struggling or [waging] wars the eye cannot see. What does chronic depression even look like? At times I think my close friends just tolerate me. Moreover, I feel truly alone. I always have. For a long time (years) I’ve known I would take my own life.

How to support veterans’ mental health here.

Veterans can call the Veterans Crisis Line here.

Eighth news item

Democrats need to deal with the woke:

Back to the Democrats. This ideology is of the left. You are the party of the left, not the right. If you do not kick away from the woke educational agenda you will own it. Republican operatives who don’t have a clue about the implications of woke ideology, or why it is so damaging, or how to answer it in the schools, will deftly hang it around your neck. Parents will demand you take a stand, for or against, and if against what will you do about it—tell the unions that fund and support you to knock it off?

Do that. You’ll look like you have some seriousness, some guts. You’ll look like you care about parents. And it would actually be sincere: I’ve never, ever met a moderate Democrat who personally approved of the woke education regime.

Moderate Democratic officeholders fear party progressives, who might challenge them in a primary. But the fight between the party’s energetic extreme and the majority of moderate Democrats can’t be managed or dodged anymore. The election of Joe Biden papered it over. Three months ago the battle was engaged in Washington, over economic issues. It will spread back home.

Ninth news item

2021, am I right?!!

MISCELLANEOUS

Great parents, great kid. More please!

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

269 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (174549)

  2. A federal grand jury has returned an indictment against former Donald Trump adviser Steve Bannon for contempt of Congress, the Justice Department announced Friday.

    Interesting. Puts him in a club with quite an array of famed and/or infamous Americans. From Neil Gorsuch’s mother to the ‘Hollywood Ten’… to former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/hollywood-10-cited-for-contempt-of-congress

    Of course, million Americans hold Congress in contempt as it is: The most recent polling data from September 2021 puts the approval rating of the United States Congress at just 27 percent. source, https://www.statista.com/statistics/207579/public-approval-rating-of-the-us-congress/

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  3. Dana,

    I want to take this opportunity to thank you for being one of the hosts here. I’ve been reading your writing here and at Cathy Seipp’s old blog for 15 years. You are a gem.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  4. Hopefully, this won’t be the last correction for all the wrong reporting on the Steele reports.
    A clear sign of Steele’s unreliability is how little of it ended up in the Mueller report.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  5. I just read that WaPo story, Paul. It’s amusing to read “The Washington Post did [such and such…]” in the Washington Post!

    norcal (b9a35f)

  6. The Bannon case goes hand in hand with Trump’s Executive Privilege claim. I am not as sure as some that one president can waive another president’s expectation of privilege. It seems fraught with mischief. The Appeals Court may enjoin still. Precedent should not be set based on a desire for a particular resolution of an emotional case.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  7. Meadow’s counsel is correct (in delaying compliance) although it’s unclear what portion of Meadow’s testimony might be covered by Executive Privilege. But in the absence of an appellate decision on the novel claim that Biden can waive Trump’s expectation of privilege, counsel would be an idiot to advise his client differently.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. “The government has no business conspiring with NSBA to compare upset parents to domestic terrorists. And parents have no business attacking school board members and/or school personnel as if they were domestic terrorists.”

    Is the latter happening? All I’m aware of is parents attempting to have a say in their child’s education, the opinion of the Washington Post and VA Democrats notwithstanding.

    Obudman (bdc76b)

  9. Rev. Al Sharpton sat with the slain man’s family.

    I can see how that would be prejudicial.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. Americans quit their jobs at a record pace for the second straight month in September, in many cases for more money elsewhere as companies bump up pay to fill job openings that are close to an all-time high.

    Given the largesse of the federal government of late, previously employed people are still trying to milk unemployment for better-than-minimum-wage for sitting at home. The people who DO apply for those minimum-wage jobs are largely not worth minimum wage. Unrealiable, inebriated, thieves, or completely inexperienced. It’s a problem. So, those employers who can possibly do so are paying considerably more (and those who can’t — largely mom&pop — are going out of business). Great for the corporate world.

    There’s a reason that hamburger is 20% more than it used to be.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. And parents have no business attacking school board members and/or school personnel as if they were domestic terrorists.

    No, they should be attacked as if they were seditious conspirators.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. Twitter disables retweet function on Rittenhouse mother’s tweet condemning Big Tech censorship of her son

    https://thepostmillennial.com/twitter-disables-retweet-function-on-rittenhouse-mothers-tweet-condemning-big-tech-censorship-son

    Obudman (bdc76b)

  13. Mr Montagu wrote:

    Hopefully, this won’t be the last correction for all the wrong reporting on the Steele reports.
    A clear sign of Steele’s unreliability is how little of it ended up in the Mueller report.

    And a clear sign of how worthless the Mueller report was is that the Democrats used none of it in their ridiculous impeachment attempts.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (61384a)

  14. Obudman wrote:

    Twitter disables retweet function on Rittenhouse mother’s tweet condemning Big Tech censorship of her son

    And Facebook had already banned posts which claimed that Mr Rittenhouse was not guilty.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (61384a)

  15. And the FBI teamed up with the NY Times to steal confidential documents from Project Veritas.

    We are living in dangerous times.

    NJRob (b55dee)

  16. No, they should be attacked as if they were seditious conspirators.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/12/2021 @ 5:52 pm

    Especially if they and their relatives compile a dossier of parents and critics’ personal information, and follow them around taking pics of their license plates and kids. From National Review, although I actually saw it on Daily Mail first:

    Arizona School-Board President Linked to Dossier that Includes Parents’ Personal Info

    NEWS
    EDUCATION
    Arizona School-Board President Linked to Dossier that Includes Parents’ Personal Info
    By ZACHARY EVANS
    November 11, 2021 5:02 PM

    Parents at the Scottsdale Unified School District in Arizona discovered that the local school board president had access to a Google Drive with the personal information of parents who opposed mask mandates and critical race theory.

    The drive was discovered by parent Kim Stafford, after board President Jann-Michael Greenburg sent Stafford an email accusing her of being anti-Semitic over previous comments against George Soros. Greenberg sent Stafford a screenshot that included a link to the Google drive, which Stafford then shared with friends, the Daily Caller reported.

    The drive contains information on 47 people, many of them parents who expressed opposition to mask mandates and critical race theory, and includes photographs of some children of district parents. Personal information on parents includes portions of social security numbers, addresses, mortgage payments, divorce filings, and bankruptcy filings.

    The drive includes folders with headings such as “Press Conference Psychos,” “Anti Mask Lunatics,” and “SUSD Wackos.” A video in the “Press Conference Psychos” folder shows parents holding signs saying “SUSD We Demand Transparency” and “CRT is Racist.”

    Greenburg, incidentally, is only 27 years old and was elected to head the board as a 24-year-old, newly minted law school graduate in 2018. He hasn’t even had his 10-year high school reunion yet.

    Setting aside the fact that this chowderhead inadvertently linked a Drive account in an email that implicates him and his father (and another school board member, Zach Lindsay, incidentally) in stalking parents and their kids, and getting their personal info, it speaks to the sheer level of political apathy possessed by conservatives that someone this unqualified could be elected to lead one of the wealthiest school districts in Arizona.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  17. I’m sure that the next time the FBI raids the NY Times for the Pentagon Papers, it will all be good. After all, if you can raid an investigative journalist for a diary, it’s a VERY low bar.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. NJRobb – “We are living in dangerous times.”

    Indeed we are.

    COVID is already 6th on Wikipedia’s list of deadly epidemics. It has already killed more than 780,000 Americans, depriving each of them of life, liberty, and any opportunity to pursue happiness.

    Yet many Americans act as if the disease is not here, or if it is, claim that it will vanish “like magic”.

    A look at history shows us that this reaction is not uncommon in great epidemics. The most famous book about the Black Death, The Decameron, isn’t about the disease, but is a collection of tales told by a group who were hiding out from the disease.

    From Gina Kolata, I learned that American reaction to the great 1918 flu pandemic was similar; we mostly tried to ignore it, even though germ theory was widely accepted by then:

    Alfred Crosby, puzzling over the epidemic’s impact, went to the Reader’s Guide to Periodical Literature from 1919 to 1921 and counted the column inches devoted to the influenza as compared with other topics. There were, he wrote, 13 inches citing articles on baseball, 20 inches on Bolshevism, and 47 on Prohibition. Just 8 inches of citations referred to the flu.

    Most college history textbooks, some by famous historians, ignore the subject completely.

    Why are so many humans unwilling to face up to our great disease enemies?

    One can understand why medieval Europeans, many of them incredibly brave, were unable to face the Black Death; they had no idea what caused it, or how to keep from getting it, other than quarantines.

    One can even understand, to some extent, why Americans were unable to face the deadly 1918 flu epidemic; although scientists then knew about viruses (or, as they called them, “filterable viruses”) no one had seen one, since the electron microscope was not invented until the 1930s, and DNA was not discovered until the 1950s.

    But what is our excuse?

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  19. Correction: I should have said DNA was not decoded until the 1950s. It as discovered much earlier.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  20. @FWO@16 I don’t know why the school board president would’ve had access, but did you think the school district… didn’t?… have access to the parents personal information or pictures of the kids?

    (also, someone should ask me about the security of online school records at some point. I will laugh and laugh and throw up.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  21. Rev. Al Sharpton sat with the slain man’s family.

    I can see how that would be prejudicial.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/12/2021 @ 5:46 pm

    Not just prejudicial. Intimidating. He is a master rent-a-mobber.

    “Nice town you have here, judge and jury.”

    norcal (b9a35f)

  22. @FWO@16 I don’t know why the school board president would’ve had access, but did you think the school district… didn’t?… have access to the parents personal information or pictures of the kids?

    I can’t tell if you’re just being coy, or you didn’t read what I quoted, but it’s controlled by Greenburg and his father. At least one other board member, Zachary Lindsay, has his email address linked to the Drive folders as well, along with another unknown person (likely the private detective his dad hired to help in the stalking, or one of the other board members).

    The emotionally stunted board president accidentally exposed the link in a screenshot he sent via an email from his computer while accusing a parent of being anti-Semitic, in a fit of pique. To repeat from the article:

    The drive was discovered by parent Kim Stafford, after board President Jann-Michael Greenburg sent Stafford an email accusing her of being anti-Semitic over previous comments against George Soros. Greenberg sent Stafford a screenshot that included a link to the Google drive, which Stafford then shared with friends, the Daily Caller reported.

    The drive contains information on 47 people, many of them parents who expressed opposition to mask mandates and critical race theory, and includes photographs of some children of district parents. Personal information on parents includes portions of social security numbers, addresses, mortgage payments, divorce filings, and bankruptcy filings.

    The drive includes folders with headings such as “Press Conference Psychos,” “Anti Mask Lunatics,” and “SUSD Wackos.” A video in the “Press Conference Psychos” folder shows parents holding signs saying “SUSD We Demand Transparency” and “CRT is Racist.”

    Or, from the New York Post:

    On Wednesday, the district sent parents an email seeking to assure them that their personal and educational data is safe — and also placed sole blame for the Google Drive on Greenburg’s father, Mark.

    “While the existence of the site and its public record contents may raise concern, such activities are not within the purview of the Scottsdale Unified School District to control and are unrelated to the district’s task of providing future-focused, world-class learning opportunities to our 22,000 Pre-K-12 students,” the district said, according to AZ Family.

    A video obtained by the Daily Independent allegedly showed Mark Greenburg snapping photos of parents and kids without their knowledge on Aug. 24, hours before a school board meeting, according to National Review.

    Mark Greenburg previously operated a parody website aimed at former school board member Barbara Perleberg, the outlet said.

    Even though Mark Greenburg is listed as the Google Drive owner, records from a special board meeting in August show Jann-Michael admitted sharing a computer with his dad, according to AZ Free News.

    I realize you have a vested interest in defending this guy, since you are a public school official. But this is indefensible.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  23. (also, someone should ask me about the security of online school records at some point. I will laugh and laugh and throw up.)

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/12/2021 @ 7:37 pm

    How is that an excuse?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  24. Al Sharpton sat with the slain man’s family.

    =sigh=

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  25. @fwo@22 (and23) I know, that because I often am not aligned with your specific political viewpoint, that it’s easy to knee-jerk assume I was disagreeing with you, but I wasn’t defending him, I was speculating on a possible source of the info. I’m glad that it wasn’t a leak from the district, because we always have addresses and phone numbers and often have social security numbers, divorce papers, mortgage papers, copies of driver’s licenses, etc, especially for students who come in from districts that are very concerned about students being here illegally. I once had a parent present me with the baptismal records for a student coming from a country in Africa because mom wanted us to really really know she wasn’t Muslim and she insisted that it needed to be in the cum file.

    Nic (896fdf)

  26. a couple of mostly non-political articles I ran across this week:

    Salmonella in our food

    Thanks, if there are factories that aren’t treating their factory line right, I think we should know and we should know who they sell to, so that we don’t buy their chicken. Basic free market checks and balances.

    and Are we sure it’s Organic?

    I’m not an organic food person myself, but there are people who have all kinds of chemical allergies that NEED to know that their food is organic and even if they aren’t one of those people, I think people should get what they pay for, even if it’s silly sometimes. Also, it’s just fraud and false advertising.

    I feel like maybe there might be something wrong with our food safety system.

    Nic (896fdf)

  27. I read the article about organic foods, Nic. Fascinating. There could be the makings of a movie in that tale.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  28. It definitely would.

    I’d say maybe Leo diCaprio, but I think it needs someone who looks more ordinary. Unfortunately Tom Hanks doesn’t play bad guys and Kevin Spacey is currently box office poison. George Clooney would have the charm to do it, but he’s too pretty too and he doesn’t have a history of playing bad guys either.

    Nic (896fdf)

  29. How do you know if someone is gluten free?
    Oh they’ll let you know.

    mg (8cbc69)

  30. Psaki: “Our view is that the rise in gas prices over the long term makes an even stronger case for doubling down our investment and our focus on clean energy options.”

    There are conservatives who voted for this.

    Obudman (461aac)

  31. conservative means – dip schiff in todays dictionary.

    mg (8cbc69)

  32. And the FBI teamed up with the NY Times to steal confidential documents from Project Veritas. We are living in dangerous times.
    NJRob (b55dee) — 11/12/2021 @ 6:18 pm

    Why is the FBI involved with this at all? Unless the investigation is part of something broader, I can’t see the federal crime.

    Hoi Polloi (998b37)

  33. Obudman (461aac) — 11/13/2021 @ 2:03 am

    Remember when “clean” (don’t research those solar panels or batteries) energy options weren’t a choice because they were to expensive. They found a fix for that and it didn’t require them to make them cheaper. It’s a win-win.

    frosty (f27e97)

  34. Hoi Polloi (998b37) — 11/13/2021 @ 4:03 am

    Why is the FBI involved with this at all? Unless the investigation is part of something broader, I can’t see the federal crime.

    They won’t know the crime until they do the investigation.

    frosty (f27e97)

  35. If you steal my bicycle in Chicago and pawn it in Muncie, it’s interstate, and it’s a federal crime.

    nk (1d9030)

  36. If you put it on Craig’s list, it’s electronic communication and it’s a federal crime.

    nk (1d9030)

  37. Taken overall, Project Veritas is little more than a fart in an elevator and that’s all it seems to aspire to these days. O’Keefe has come to know the limits of his competence, I think.

    nk (1d9030)

  38. Re…28, Tom Hanks is box office poison in nearly the same sense as Kevin Spacey in many circles these days as well. Josh Brolin has played a lot of baddies and might be itching for a lead role. Native Missourans Brad Pitt and John Hamm might bring something to the role as well.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  39. No, they should be attacked as if they were seditious conspirators.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/12/2021 @ 5:52 pm

    Well said.

    felipe (484255)

  40. Between Brolin and Hamm, I incline towards Hamm, ULB.

    felipe (484255)

  41. But lemme ax you, Conservatives Who Are Not RINOS And Love The Lawful President Who Is Donald Trump: What would a decent human being, with the barest vestige of decency and humanity, do with a woman’s lost diary except look to see if they can return it to her?

    And what kind of a “little hobbit” would claim that it was “abandoned”? Who “abandons” their diary in a hotel room?

    nk (1d9030)

  42. And a clear sign of how worthless the Mueller report was is that the Democrats used none of it in their ridiculous impeachment attempts.

    The Mueller report was relevant. What was “worthless” was Pelosi’s cowardice to pull the trigger on Trump’s multiple obstructions of justice, which only emboldened Trump to betray his country and his oath of office by enlisting a foreign government to help him win an election.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  43. Pelosi wanted Trump/Pence versus Biden/Harris in 2020. Not Pence/Hailey. The impeachments were phonier than her front teeth.

    nk (1d9030)

  44. So here you are, stopped at a light in your moped on a sunny day, minding your own business, and then…BAM!

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  45. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/13/2021 @ 6:03 am

    Jurassic Park taught the rider nothing. The animal charged the smaller, moving target. Oh, and always check both rear-views, before moving.

    felipe (484255)

  46. 44, some people on Instapundit threats are pushing for DeSantis_…Gabbard!

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  47. Mr Montagu wrote:

    And a clear sign of how worthless the Mueller report was is that the Democrats used none of it in their ridiculous impeachment attempts.

    The Mueller report was relevant. What was “worthless” was Pelosi’s cowardice to pull the trigger on Trump’s multiple obstructions of justice, which only emboldened Trump to betray his country and his oath of office by enlisting a foreign government to help him win an election.

    So, you’re telling us that the lovely Mrs Pelosi, who had the ovaries to tear up President Trump’s State of the Union speech, on camera, during the speech, was too much of a coward to push for maximum charges, maximum counts? Sorry, but I do not partake of the recreational pharmaceuticals required to believe such a thing.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693)

  48. Mr behind wrote:

    some people on Instapundit threats are pushing for DeSantis_…Gabbard!

    Make no mistake about it: Tulsi Gabbard Williams is very much a liberal! But she also has a strong libertarian streak and believes in strange things like freedom of speech. Had the Democrats nominated her in 2020, conservatives would still grumble had she defeated President Trump, but we’d still respect her.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693)

  49. And parents have no business attacking school board members and/or school personnel as if they were domestic terrorists.

    take that, youngkin!!

    JF (e1156d)

  50. oh, but look, the media finally found a school board that’s bad, and angry protesters who aren’t domestic terrorists

    Newberg school board fires superintendent as tensions heighten over ban on political symbols

    cuz teachers need to wave their political flags in class

    except if they want to fly a blue line flag, then that’s no good

    idiocracy

    JF (e1156d)

  51. so, how many americans still stranded in afghanistan?

    oh well, who cares

    JF (e1156d)

  52. “But Trump was right, in the end, about the dodgy dossier; he was right about the duped FBI’s original overreach; and the mass media — Rachel Maddow chief among them — were wrong. And yet the dossier dominated the headlines for three years, and the “corrections” have a fraction of the audience of the errors. Maddow gets promoted. And the man who first published it, Ben Smith, was made the media columnist for the NYT.

    Think of the other narratives the MSM pushed in recent years that have collapsed. They viciously defamed the Covington boys. They authoritatively told us that bounties had been placed on US soldiers in Afghanistan by Putin — and Trump’s denials only made them more certain. They told us that the lab-leak theory of Covid was a conspiracy theory with no evidence behind it at all. (The NYT actually had the story of the leak theory, by Donald McNeil, killed it, and then fired McNeil, their best Covid reporter, after some schoolgirls complained he wasn’t woke.) Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

    The MSM took the ludicrous story of Jussie Smollett seriously because it fit their nutty “white supremacy” narrative. They told us that a woman was brutally gang-raped at UVA (invented), that the Pulse mass shooting was driven by homophobia (untrue) and that the Atlanta spa shooter was motivated by anti-Asian bias (no known evidence for that at all). For good measure, they followed up with story after story about white supremacists targeting Asian-Americans, in a new wave of “hate,” even as the assaults were disproportionately by African Americans and the mentally ill.”

    When all the media narratives collapse

    https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/when-all-the-media-narratives-collapse-650

    Lots of NeverTrumpets are having a hard time admitting this is true.

    Obudman (461aac)

  53. so, how many americans still stranded in afghanistan?

    oh well, who cares

    JF (e1156d) — 11/13/2021 @ 7:26 am

    How many of them are Afghans with dual American citizenship who go there every year to stay with relatives, and some of them are being raised year-round by those relatives to be good Afghans while their parents work in the US?

    And just exactly what is stranding them? The higher cost of jet fuel? Maybe we should send in the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) to helicopter them out?

    Oh, well, who cares, when a “hey, look over there!” is needed?

    nk (1d9030)

  54. @55 hey psaki, it’s an open thread

    JF (e1156d)

  55. Tulsi Gabbard Williams is no more qualified to be President of the United States than any mid-level healthcare organization administrator who also managed to get elected shop steward of the local health workers union.

    nk (1d9030)

  56. “Mrs Pelosi…was too much of a coward to push for maximum charges”

    I suspect the costs of broadening the impeachment charges were time, more legal challenges, too much distraction from their 2020 agenda, and the low probability that extra charges would enhance the ability to get to 67 Senate votes. Probably….cynically….it was decided that they wanted a weakened Trump that they could use to siphon off moderate suburban voters and push some conservatives to the sidelines…while making the GOP have to twist and defend the lawlessness. In the end, Biden did win…and the Democrats narrowly control Congress and the Presidency…and though Biden is pretty weak….Trump remains an albatross around the neck of the GOP…keeping it mired in election lies, conspiracies, and nonsense….hopelessly off message and dancing to Trump’s tune. Was it really cowardice…..or did the Dems gain political advantage by keeping Trump on the board?

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  57. @55 hey psaki, it’s an open thread

    I know. I didn’t mean that you were changing the topic here. I meant that it’s a National Squirrel and the only thing that’s missing is an Act of Congress and/or Presidential Proclamation.

    nk (1d9030)

  58. Enough with these legislative remedies; you need the equivalent of SAS or Mossad to take care of business, but our present day counterparts would fall from the ceiling panels while sniffing each other’s nether regions.

    urbanleftbehind (d21630)

  59. @Obudman@30 I don’t think that depending on the government to give oil companies preferential treatment and subsidies to create lower oil prices is particularly conservative either. The government always has it’s thumb on the energy price scale, where exactly it is on the scale is the only thing that changes.

    @urbanleftbehind@40 I don’t know that they would have the right look either. I can’t really imagine my grandfather (who was a farmer) being convinced of much of anything by Brad Pitt. IDK.

    Nic (896fdf)

  60. Here’s a sweet story:

    From the time she was adopted from an Ethiopian orphanage, Naomi Pascal has found comfort, love and joy from Teddy, the teddy bear she was given by her adoptive parents. The young girl and her stuffed animal traveled the world together — Rwanda, Croatia, Greece — and were inseparable for four years.

    So when Teddy was lost along a hiking trail in Glacier National Park in Montana last year, Naomi, then 5, was devastated and distraught over losing her best friend.

    But she has Teddy back, thanks to a ranger, Tom Mazzarisi, and a friend of the Pascals, Terri Hayden.

    (Brad Pascal is the senior pastor at the Presbyterian Church of Jackson Hole.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  61. Whenever I read of a controversy involving school boards, I am reminded of Mark Twain’s comment:
    “In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards.”

    More seriously, since there are thousands of school boards in the United States, it is certain that a few of them will behave badly. To draw any national conclusions from one such example is to commit a logical error.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  62. So, you’re telling us that the lovely Mrs Pelosi, who had the ovaries to tear up President Trump’s State of the Union speech, on camera, during the speech, was too much of a coward to push for maximum charges, maximum counts?

    She chose political machinations instead of pursuing the obvious crimes Trump committed in office.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  63. “Whenever I read of a controversy involving school boards, I am reminded of Mark Twain’s comment:
    “In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards.””

    Since this is a Democrat operative posting this, I’m almost certain the quote is fabricated. Should I waste time verifying it, or just mock him right now?

    More seriously, since there are thousands of school boards in the United States, it is certain that a few of them will behave badly. To draw any national conclusions from one such example is to commit a logical error.

    >Letter is released showing that pro-CRT activism at school boards, the HOMEGROWN TERRORISM verbiage to justify no-platforming its parental opponents, and the specific strategy required to push it was directly coordinated with the Department of Education and Department of Justice

    Liberal: ALL OF THE SCHOOL BOARDS INDEPENDENTLY STARTED PUSHING THIS UNPOPULAR DEMOCRAT PARTY LINE SIMULTANEOUSLY BECAUSE THEY’RE DUMB AND DEFINITELY NOT BECAUSE THE NATIONAL DEPARTMENTS WERE WRITING MEMOS AND BUREAUCRATIC REQUIREMENTS FOR IT. BECAUSE ONE THING DUMB PEOPLE DO IS INDEPENDENTLY COME UP WITH ORIGINAL IDEAS!

    Jim Miller is a Democrat, posting Democrat talking points, working for Democrat party interests, which include conspiring to divide the nation over class and race to keep the population poor, stupid, and electing corporate stooges to force workers to accept devalued slave wages while capturing all of the value for themselves. He will lie and mischaracterize easily available facts to support this end. Mock and deride him wherever his arguments are found.

    Kulak liquidator (8de00a)

  64. Andrew has a point. So does Jonah. The lament from both perspectives is similar.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  65. Jim Miller is a Democrat, posting Democrat talking points, working for Democrat party interests, which include conspiring to divide the nation over class and race to keep the population poor, stupid, and electing corporate stooges to force workers to accept devalued slave wages while capturing all of the value for themselves. He will lie and mischaracterize easily available facts to support this end.

    Jim can speak for himself, but you’re the one lying about him.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  66. This article appears in an unexpected place, the Washington Post:

    SAN ANTONIO — Tere Haring worked the math. Already, the antiabortion nonprofit she runs had given away a record number of baby items during the pandemic. She’d helped five women a day in 2020, and she’d handed out 71 car seats, 45,569 diapers, and $71,000 in rent assistance. Then, in September, a state law banning abortions after six weeks went into effect. By late October, Haring was seeing seven or eight clients a day. The phone rang, then rang again.

    (The rest of the rather long article continues in that positive tone, and tells of how Haring came to do this.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  67. For the curious: Beginning in 1980, I have voted for the following candidates for president: Reagan, Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Dole, George W. Bush, George W. Bush, McCain, Romney, Romney, and Romney. (write-in votes for the last two).

    I have never voted for the candidate the great conservative cartoonist Michael Ramirez correctly depicted as a RINO.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  68. If you steal my bicycle in Chicago and pawn it in Muncie, it’s interstate, and it’s a federal crime.

    I doubt the FBI would be interested if it was Obama’s bicycle.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. Not Pence/Hailey.

    That won’t happen. Pence is utterly and completely compromised. Being Pence’s VP would be like being Kaepernick’s backup QB.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  70. All the GOP needed to do in 2020 (or needs to do in 2024) is put up a better candidate than Biden or Harris. How hard can that be? In 2020 they managed to find one who was arguably worse, and that same candidate is the front runner in 2024.

    It is NOT GOOD ENOUGH to say “the other guy is bad” — the alternative needs to be better.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. More seriously, since there are thousands of school boards in the United States, it is certain that a few of them will behave badly. To draw any national conclusions from one such example is to commit a logical error.

    This assumes they all act independently, when there is a national organization seeking to influence (if not control) them all, and that organization is fully behind the bad behavior.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. @69: I assume you voted for GHWB twice. I diverge there, voting for Perot (a balanced budget vote) and for the libertarian instead of the terrible Dole. I voted LP the last two elections, although I cannot fault your votes for Romney.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. Lot of hilarious rejoinders here:

    “Jim can speak for himself, but you’re the one lying about him.”

    Paul Montagu is also a Democrat, working for Democrat interests, and using Democrat talking points. Of course he’d come to his defense.

    “Beginning in 1980, I have voted for the following candidates for president: Reagan, Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Dole, George W. Bush, George W. Bush, McCain, Romney, Romney, and Romney.

    I have never voted for the candidate the great conservative cartoonist Michael Ramirez correctly depicted as a RINO.”

    Yes, mister ROMNEY ROMNEY ROMNEY, you just voted for the candidate every single other Republican correctly depicted as a RINO throughout his career and not just as a lazy election-year slur, even after the Republican party as a whole correctly rejected him as unelectable after getting burned by his unlikeability, traitorousness, and general contempt for the middle class and swing voters.

    And RINOS are…SAY IT WITH ME NOW:

    “DEMOCRATS, WORKING FOR DEMOCRAT INTERESTS, USING DEMOCRAT PARTY TALKING POINTS, WHILE CLAIMING TO BE REPUBLICAN”

    I haven’t seen a more self-demonstrating reply since Binger trotted out the “IT WAS JUST ARSON” line!

    “Pence is utterly and completely compromised.”

    You’re a RINO, being compromised is part and parcel of your nature!

    “Being Pence’s VP would be like being Kaepernick’s backup QB.”

    Pence was always a sop for the corporate wing of the GOP, he was never meant to lead, he was meant to keep the funders happy.

    Democrat Ally (53f0a7)

  74. I have voted for the following candidates for president: Reagan, Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Dole, George W. Bush, George W. Bush, McCain, Romney, Romney, and Romney.

    Dontcha know that all of those guys are the RINOs now? Don’t we all know what the current definition of RINO is?

    Pence was always a sop for the corporate wing of the GOP, he was never meant to lead, he was meant to keep the funders happy.

    Rubbish, Pence was there to help secure the conservative Christian vote and put a moral gloss on the most conspicuously amoral candidate the GOP ever put forward.
    It’s ridiculous to think that Pence had more appeal to the “corporate wing” than Mr. “I’m a really rich, successful businessman and I think it’s smart to avoid taxes any way I can and to stiff small vendors whenever I choose and to push the costs of my failures onto other people in bankruptcy.” The guy who was set on giving a big tax cut to corporations. And who in the first debate in 2016 said “Our wages are too high.”

    Radegunda (baac11)

  75. “I assume you voted for GHWB twice.” Right.

    Romney got my support because he is a competent executive, as his record shows. Voters in both parties have paid less attention to competence in recent elections than they should.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  76. Paul Montagu is also a Democrat, working for Democrat interests, and using Democrat talking points. Of course he’d come to his defense.

    And now you’re lying about me: Anderson, Reagan, Bush, Perot, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain, Romney, Gary Johnson, Larry Hogan. Not a Democrat in the bunch.
    I’ve been a Republican since Reagan’s first term (way longer than Trump), except for a 5-year hiatus as an independent in 2013-2018.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  77. And now you’re lying about me:
    You’ve got some good company. Back in 2015-16 I was called a “leftist” and a lover of Hillary or Bernie because I criticized the orange god and favored other GOP candidates.

    Trump and his fanatical devotees dictated that the one necessary requirement for being a Republican in good standing is to love the orange god unconditionally. And help him steal an election he loses.

    Radegunda (baac11)

  78. And now you’re lying about me:

    Forget to add the quote format.

    Radegunda (baac11)

  79. Them what represents no interests is very interested in posting his credentials:

    “Romney got my support because he is a competent executive, as his record shows. Voters in both parties have paid less attention to competence in recent elections than they should.”

    Who cares if he’s “competent” if he’s on the wrong side? By who’s standards?

    “And now you’re lying about me: Anderson, Reagan, Bush, Perot, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain, Romney, Gary Johnson, Larry Hogan. Not a Democrat in the bunch.”

    Didn’t vote for Reagan the first time, had to see the real effects afterward, did not learn anything since then. Voted libertarian as though it mattered. Voting for Larry Hogan as though he had a chance. These are not the actions of a REPUBLICAN ALLY or REPUBLICAN-ADJACENT individual. They’re the actions of someone who thinks his personal opinions are more important than building a real-life political coalition that can take real-life political action. Or someone who’s working for the highest bidder.

    Good for getting one correct non-RINO choice (Perot) though!

    “I’ve been a Republican since Reagan’s first term (way longer than Trump), except for a 5-year hiatus as an independent in 2013-2018.

    Resume gaps are very suspicious! Your membership does not reflect your opinions as posted here. Your opinions as posted here indicate that you are…say it with me: “a Democrat, working for Democrat interests, and using Democrat Party talking points.”

    Correct Records (1dae6f)

  80. Here’s one for everyone that like charts and is interested in the relationship between politics and covid outcomes. Several different views in the thread.

    https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/1459565881214836743?s=21

    TL:DR counties that voted heavily for Trump did pretty bad compared to counties that voted heavily against him.

    Time123 (fb9b72)

  81. nk wrote:

    Tulsi Gabbard Williams is no more qualified to be President of the United States than any mid-level healthcare organization administrator who also managed to get elected shop steward of the local health workers union.

    As a National Guard officer, she has more executive experience than Joe Biden! But, regardless of what you see as qualification, she couldn’t have done a worse job than Mr Biden.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693)

  82. I was too young to vote in 1980, but I would have voted for Reagan. I watched the Republican convention in 1976 as a 12-year-old, and was pulling for Reagan over Ford. (Seriously, what 12-year-old does that? My future as a political junkie was evident early on.)

    Starting in 1984, I voted for the Republican nominee for President in every election up to and including 2016. (That last one was a hard decision, but I hoped that Trump would shape up once in office. In retrospect that was very foolish of me.)

    In 2020 I voted for the Libertarian not named Dana. I credit this blog with helping me see the light about the Professional-Wrestler-in-Chief.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  83. “It’s ridiculous to think that Pence had more appeal to the “corporate wing””

    Corporate wants easygoing, obedient puppets who’ll sign off on the McKinsey ‘government as a service’ line and put the ‘stakeholders’ above all.

    NOT hard-charging independents who’ll take action in their own and their company’s interests first and foremost. You just refuted your own statement.

    “Back in 2015-16 I was called a “leftist” and a lover of Hillary or Bernie because I criticized the orange god and favored other GOP candidates.”

    Lefties are primarily people who prefer ideas and emotions to reality, and the non-realistic idea that you can win with someone who doesn’t have built-in cross-party demographic appeal puts you further and further away from the reality-based GOP the more you insist on it after every primary loss. “Here’s how Bernie can still win” is uttered in exactly the same voice as “Here’s Marco Rubio’s path to victory”, that of “some crank who can’t accept reality.”

    Correct Records (11c1f2)

  84. Romney got my support because he is a competent executive, as his record shows. Voters in both parties have paid less attention to competence in recent elections than they should.

    I would have said longer than that, but the last two guys have caused me to reconsider what seemed like incompetence before.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. And now you’re lying about me: Anderson, Reagan…

    To be fair, Anderson got many of his votes from Democrats who thought Carter was a boob.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. Corporate wants easygoing, obedient puppets

    You haven’t refuted my point that Pence’s appeal to evangelical (or otherwise religious, moral conservative) voters is much more obvious than any “corporate” appeal. Trump was famous as a businessman who knew what was in the interest of business. He was not known as a moral or religious person. Pence filled that gap.
    And Trump gave “corporate” a big tax cut.

    NOT hard-charging independents who’ll take action in their own and their company’s interests first and foremost. You just refuted your own statement.

    You haven’t demonstrated where I “just refuted” my own statement. But you seem to be affirming the truth that Trump puts his own interest first and foremost.

    the non-realistic idea that you can win with someone who doesn’t have built-in cross-party demographic appeal puts you further and further away from the reality-based GOP

    Trump was historically slow to sow up the GOP nomination, and polls showed him more likely to lose in the general than several of his competitors. He lost the popular vote by 2.87 million. He lost the vote in 2020 by a lot more. So the idea that he has such great “cross-party demographic appeal” is refuted. (Though what exactly does “demographic appeal” mean?) George W. Bush won reelection with a margin of over 3 million in the popular vote.

    A myth that Trump-idolators starting telling themselves back in 2016 was that because Trump eked out a win in the Electoral College, therefore he was the only GOP candidate who could possibly have won. (I actually saw a law professor make that argument. Did he miss his classes in rules of evidence, not to mention basic logic?)

    Another myth is that because they idolize him, therefore he must be super-popular across the general population.

    BTW, when will the “reality-based GOP” admit that their candidate lost the election? Why is it that some people who surely know it will not speak that reality in public?

    Radegunda (56bf80)

  87. Lefties are primarily people who prefer ideas and emotions to reality,

    Do you have any evidence that I fit that description—aside from the fact that your (subjective) view of “reality” is not the same as mine?
    I grew up on a modest working farm, which imbued some understanding of reality. My immediate family members are mostly involved in practical occupations. I chose to study history rather than, say, philosophy, in part because history is about what really happened, according to what the evidence shows.

    Radegunda (56bf80)

  88. Didn’t vote for Reagan the first time, had to see the real effects afterward, did not learn anything since then.

    Mindreading is an intellectually lazy and dishonest practice, Socko.
    The John Anderson choice was at a time when I was 18 and transitioning from Democrat to Republican.
    The Ross Perot vote was a mistake because he turned out to be a paranoid nutcase.
    The Johnson/Hogan picks were protest votes; Biden didn’t get my vote on issues, and Trump didn’t get my vote on character, fitness, temperament, etc.
    If or when this dysfunctional Republican Party nominates a candidate who is fit and hinged, he/she may just get my vote.

    Your opinions as posted here indicate that you are…say it with me: “a Democrat, working for Democrat interests, and using Democrat Party talking points.”

    That is the idjit commentary I’ve come to expect from Trumpy cultists. You truly don’t know WTF you’re talking about. Opposing Trump does not make one a liberal or Democrat and, going by this quiz, the moniker is “committed conservative”.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  89. Voting has been a waste of my time for the last 52 years. I would vote for Thomas/Sowell 2024 or Sowell/Thomas 2024. Everyone else can pound fricking sand.

    mg (8cbc69)

  90. The Ross Perot vote was a mistake because he turned out to be a paranoid nutcase.

    Except it wasn’t.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot

    “This city has become a town filled with sound bites, shell games, handlers, media stuntmen who posture, create images, talk, shoot off Roman candles, but don’t ever accomplish anything. We need deeds, not words, in this city.” – Ross Perot, National Press Club address, Washington, D.C. 3/18/92

    If anything, America needs more ‘paranoid nutcases’ like that. And of late, 74-plus million agree.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  91. Keep in mind, Paul, Reagan only changed party affiliation in 1962. The decades before that, he was a solid D [he voted for FDR 4 times you know]; his days on the rubber chicken circuit factory stumping for his then TV sponsor, DoD contractor GE speeches on 3X5 cards in his pocket, influenced his attitudes as did his time chasing Hollywood Reds, ferreting info on the QT to Hoover while head of SAG. The general consensus in Hollywood was if he’d won and Oscar for Kings Row [which frankly he should have BTW] he’d likely never have left town nor turned to TV to make a buck.

    Anderson drew populist appeal in his ’80 run and was a ‘Rockefeller Republican’ of sorts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Anderson

    Of note: ‘Carter said that he would not appear on stage with Anderson, and sat out the debate, which hurt the President in the eyes of voters. Reagan and Anderson had a debate in Baltimore on September 21, 1980. Anderson did well, and polls showed he won a modest debate victory over Reagan…”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  92. Ross Perot went off on paranoid rants about “operatives” wiretapping his offices and disrupting his daughter’s wedding, all during the campaign, and then there was his infamous “you people” speech. America dodged a bullet with that guy.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  93. America dodged a bullet with that guy.

    74-plus million would disagree, Paul.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  94. Paul- from the bio: ‘A detailed analysis of voting demographics revealed that Perot’s support drew heavily from across the political spectrum, with 20% of his votes coming from self-described liberals, 27% from self-described conservatives, and 53% coming from self-described moderates. Economically, however, the majority of Perot voters (57%) were middle class, earning between $15,000 and $49,000 annually, with the bulk of the remainder drawing from the upper-middle class (29% earning more than $50,000 annually). Exit polls also showed that 38% of Perot voters would have otherwise voted for Bush, and 38% would have voted for Clinton.’

    Populism on the rise.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  95. . In one profanity-laced voicemail, a caller labeled Rep. Fred Upton a “traitor” and wished death for the Michigan Republican, his family and staff…

    That’s a curse, not a threat. It’s not like that person is a member of the Outfit. You can worry about curses, too – that maybe it could become more than a curse, but the fact that he included Congressman Fred Upton’s entire family argues that it really belongs more in the curse category..

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  96. Perot 92 was the perfect candidate, whereas Perot 96 was the militia man’s candidate…I don’t think “You People” sank him as much as him stating he wouldn’t appoint Richard Grennell or Pete Buttigieg.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  97. “74-plus million would disagree, Paul”

    1. How many of the 74M would continue to support Trump after 1/6? Certainly many….but let’s postulate that 1/6 was a net negative…..people storming the Capitol motivated by lies told by Trump might get rationalized by the true-believers, but it pushes away people on the fence. The tent isn’t growing.

    2. 81M remains bigger than 74M…for every new voter, there are more voters voting against Trumpism. The gap is widening.

    3. 74M just reiterates that we are hopelessly divided as a country….and that significant majorities believe that the other side is not just wrong but evil….and purposefully trying to wreck the country….Trump is a prime example of the Sunk Cost Fallacy….many people thought “fixing” Washington required an outsider who could drain the swamp….say what needed to be said….and get things done. There is a big psychological hurdle to admit you were wrong…so much so that we simply drift into confirmation bias….only accepting evidence that supports the position…..or fall into cognitive dissonance and try to separate support for Trump from the ill-supported attacks on the integrity of the election. It amazes me that some here keep revisiting the Steele Report as if it was some sort of Rossetta Stone…as if nothing else justified Mueller’s investigation or that nothing else post-Mueller matters.

    4. 74M tells me that Biden was not an especially good candidate…or an especially good campaigner. Two lousy choices led to a lot of hold-your-nose voting. 74M tells me that the GOP has enabled a right-wing media empire that got co-opted and now stifles dissent against the reality that they helped create. What part of FOX, Talk Radio, or RedState-like blogs are itching for a Trump alternative or a new more conventional vision forward? Is there oxygen left for candidates don’t kneel at the altar of massive election fraud? The whole media system is premised on entertainment….and clicks, views, and likes….rather than dealing with objective reality. 74M tells me we have to do better….not capitulate….

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  98. And regarding the 74 million, so what.
    The same “logic” applies to the 66 million who voted for Hillary, yet that mantra never gurgled into partisan talking points.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  99. AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/14/2021 @ 3:25 am

    . 74M tells me that the GOP has enabled a right-wing media empire that got co-opted

    It’s more the other way around – a right-wing media empire, or rather, what is probably a business policy driven by advertising brokers followed by different owners – has co-opted Trump and the GOP.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  100. No Sammy, the start was in 2015 when Trump declared his candidacy….and began making outlandish policy statements and critiques that should have been rejected. The buffer should have been the top right-wing opinionators like Rush, Hannity, and O’Reilley….but instead they legitimized Trump’s candidacy….in part because they made a crude financial decision, but also because they knew Trump and personally liked Trump….and saw personal benefit from the ascendancy of Trump. They were co-opted. They moved from defending traditional conservative policies and…conservative prerequisites for the office, to defending Trump’s over-the-top populism and his personal foibles. That coupled with Evangelical support…the bending of the knee of Falwell, Graham, Dobson, Perkins, Reed…allowed Trump to emerge from a field of otherwise well-qualified Republicans.

    Now you can argue that politics becoming 24/7 entertainment…ultimately led to increasingly brash rhetoric….and that Trump merely used that sense of anger and fear to out-right-wing the rest of the field….but I would still put the onus on the mass media taking the 30 silver coins instead of exposing the grift….

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  101. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/14/post-abc-poll-biden/

    Recent losses in the Virginia elections and a close call in the New Jersey gubernatorial race have put Democrats on edge, with reason. The Post-ABC poll finds that, if elections were held today, 46 percent of adults overall would back the Republican candidate for Congress and 43 percent would support the Democratic candidate. Among registered voters, the GOP advantage goes to 51 percent vs. 41 percent for Democrats, a historically strong result for Republicans on this measure…

    The poll finds overwhelming support for parents having a say in what their children’s schools teach, including nearly half of adults saying parents should have “a lot” of say on matters of curriculum. The findings break largely along party lines, with those who say “a lot” supporting Republicans by big margins.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  102. Mr Montagu wrote:

    The same “logic” applies to the 66 million who voted for Hillary, yet that mantra never gurgled into partisan talking points.

    Makes me wonder how many fewer votes the odious Mrs Clinton would have received if Never Trumpers hadn’t been so busy trashing Mr Trump’s reputation.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693)

  103. Harrison Hill Smith, a Texas radio host, was denied monoclonal antibody treatment for COVID because he is white, not black or Hispanic.
    Smith, who presents the American Journal on the InfoWars network, tweeted on Saturday that he was denied receiving monoclonal antibody treatment for COVID because he was white, adding that such treatment was only available “for blacks and Hispanics,” which he described as being “f’n insane.”

    Despite some initial skepticism from some leftists, Smith produced a video clearly showing medical staff declaring that the only reason for his rejection was his ethnicity

    https://nationalfile.com/texas-radio-host-refused-monoclonal-covid-treatment-because-hes-not-black-or-hispanic/

    Video of the interaction and a corroborating video as well at the link.

    Should make everyone upset. But who knows anymore. 81 million people are probably patting themselves on their he back…

    Not really mentioned in the article was that the lady who explained the science behind denying him treatment said that healthy people can simply recover from Covid.

    Huh? What happened to the falling sky??

    This ain’t your great grandfather’s pandemic. Different times.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  104. Mr Liberty wrote:

    No Sammy, the start was in 2015 when Trump declared his candidacy….and began making outlandish policy statements and critiques that should have been rejected.

    Rejected by whom?

    The policy positions Donald Trump took in 2015 and 2016 are what energized the Republican base for him. While all of the other Republican candidates said that we needed to do something about illegal immigration, Mr Trump was the only one who campaigned on rounding them up and deporting them, and building a wall to keep them out. He was the only one that the base believed would actually try to do something other than flap his gums about illegal immigration. They saw “Jeb” Bush and Marco Rubio and the others — with the possible exception of Ted Cruz — as the types of Republicans who’d go ahead and support amnesty for the illegals already here, but promise to get tough on those coming later, about the most idiotic policy imaginable, even if Ronald Reagan had done just that.

    The other candidates had promised to ‘do something’ to encourage American industry, and support it against imports; Mr Trump said that he would impose tariffs and renegotiate what he called one-sided trade deals.

    Whether Mr Trump actually believed in these things I cannot say, but he tapped into the populist spirit that was seeking more from the GOP than nominees like the Bushes, Mitt Romney or John McCain had ever pushed.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693)

  105. 96. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/13/2021 @ 6:18 pm

    Ross Perot went off on paranoid rants about “operatives” wiretapping his offices and disrupting his daughter’s wedding, all during the campaign, and then there was his infamous “you people” speech.

    Now wait second. I don;t remember a wiretapping accusation.

    And as for his daughter’s wedding, I think Perot was sold on that by Ed Rpllins, who was secretly helping Bill Clinton, and Perot had some evidence which was manufactured by Clinton to blame on Bush. Perot also got diverted into the budget issue. I believe Governor Bill Clinton and political consultant Ed Rollins had a secret connection, ad Ed Rollins resigning from the Perot campaign was timed by Clinton to push Perot into withdrawing from the race.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  106. How does COVID compare, in total deaths, to the Spanish Flu (“your great grandfather’s pandemic”)? For the US, the estimates for total deaths are — already — surprisingly close:

    In the US, about 28% of the population of 105 million became infected, and 500,000 to 850,000 died (0.48 to 0.81 percent of the population).[205][206][207] Native American tribes were particularly hard hit. In the Four Corners area, there were 3,293 registered deaths among Native Americans.[208] Entire Inuit and Alaskan Native village communities died in Alaska.[209] In Canada, 50,000 died.

    The current Worldometer estimate for deaths from COVID for the United States is 783,481. (Reminder: Deborah Birx estimates that our death toll would be significantly lower had Donald Trump tried harder to save American lives, liberty, and our rights to pursue happiness.)

    World wide, the death toll for COVID is — so far — less than that of the Spanish Flu, but the estimates for both vary so widely that it is hard to say how much less. And COVID is not over.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  107. Makes me wonder how many fewer votes the odious Mrs Clinton would have received if Never Trumpers hadn’t been so busy trashing Mr Trump’s reputation.

    Trump’s reputation and conduct were already trash. I’m not going to apologize for pointing out Trump’s obvious unfitness.

    Now wait second. I don;t remember a wiretapping accusation.

    I didn’t remember that either, Sammy, but it’s noted here. I really don’t know Rollins’ role in all this, nor do I really care. Perot is the one who chose his paranoia, and it was apparent to enough Americans after he bailed on his campaign.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  108. Aaron Rodgers is back today after his bout with the Wuhan virus. Somehow he survived just taking treatments such as something people on here called “horse dewormer” just like MSNBC did.

    Go figure.

    P.S. Vaccinated Ben Roethlisberger is out with COVID.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  109. Jim,

    equating the biological warfare Wuhan Lab Flu with the Spanish Flu is beyond insulting. But Americans were made of sterner stuff then than the marshmallow fluff of today.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  110. 101. 103. A J LIberty .

    74M tells me that the GOP has enabled a right-wing media empire that got co-opted

    SF: It’s more the other way around – a right-wing media empire…has co-opted Trump and the GOP.

    104. AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/14/2021 @ 7:16 am

    No Sammy, the start was in 2015 when Trump declared his candidacy….and began making outlandish policy statements and critiques that should have been rejected. The buffer should have been the top right-wing opinionators like Rush, Hannity, and O’Reilley….but instead they legitimized Trump’s candidacy….in part because they made a crude financial decision, but also because they knew Trump and personally liked Trump….and saw personal benefit from the ascendancy of Trump. They were co-opted.

    Yes, they did not originally all support Trump. But Trump was joining in in what they said. He just gave it a little twist to distinguish himself. The other candidates neither disagreed nor agreed with him. Or when they did it was over practicalities.

    They moved from defending traditional conservative policies and…conservative prerequisites for the office, to defending Trump’s over-the-top populism and his personal foibles.

    It was Trump’s success at winning votes that got most of them to pretty much support Trump.

    That coupled with Evangelical support…the bending of the knee of Falwell, Graham, Dobson, Perkins, Reed…allowed Trump to emerge from a field of otherwise well-qualified Republicans.

    The key person who gave him credibility, I think, was Senator Jeff Sessions. Trump endorsed everything he said on immigration, or pretended to, except he added a bit of craziness to it, which embarrassed Sessions a bit (he added his own stuff to deter Senator Ted Cruz and other from saying “Me, Too”)

    Now you can argue that ….and that Trump merely used that sense of anger and fear to out-right-wing the rest of the field….but I would still put the onus on the mass media taking the 30 silver coins instead of exposing the grift….

    What Trump sensed is that he could say something that no Republican would dare to disagree with — and neither would they dare to endorse, either.

    That made him look principled. (if you gave it a superficial look)

    The stuff that nobody would dare to disagree with or, alternatively, knew how to argue against, was essentially stuff that had been said for years on talk radio – somewhat less by Rush Limbaugh. Trump just came up with a few twists on that that he sensed candidates would be afraid to disagree with also – but if course would never endorse.

    Trump also toyed – only toyed with – with violent language for the same reason.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  111. 108. The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693) — 11/14/2021 @ 8:00 am

    The policy positions Donald Trump took in 2015 and 2016 are what energized the Republican base for him. While all of the other Republican candidates said that we needed to do something about illegal immigration, Mr Trump was the only one who campaigned on rounding them up and deporting them,

    No he didn’t. He just wanted to keep new ones out – with a wall, that he claimed Mexico would pay for, or at least he wanted to try to get Mexico to pay for. Trump also made claims about danger from illegal immigrants. But he never proposed deporting any more. Democrats didn’t bother to argue against his policy, either, except maybe for obvious absurdities on occasion. It was too touchy.

    and building a wall to keep them out.

    Always with Mexico paying for it. Democrats did argue a little about the effectiveness of a wall.

    He was the only one that the base believed would actually try to do something other than flap his gums about illegal immigration.

    The issue had been created, however, by 40 years of incessant propaganda about it on talk radio. In no small part driven by a government employees trade union.

    They saw “Jeb” Bush and Marco Rubio and the others — with the possible exception of Ted Cruz — as the types of Republicans who’d go ahead and support amnesty for the illegals already here, but promise to get tough on those coming later,

    That was called “comprehensive immigration reform”

    Trading off amnesty for enforcement was, is and remains a non-starter. That’s why it was proposed. To stop amnesty.

    It wasn’t too different from what Trump himself proposed, because he was not against amnesty – for the “Dreamers” at least. Except any time amnesty at least for Dreamers was getting close to passage, Trump kept upping the ante – always in the direction of outlawing more legal immigration.

    about the most idiotic policy imaginable, even if Ronald Reagan had done just that.

    1986 proved that would not and could not ever work. The issues of amnesty pr more liberal immigration laws and the issue of enforcement must be treated separately.

    And also setting numerical quotas, as the first step in working out an agreement in Congress, destroyed any possibility of any immigration law changed from passing Congress.

    The trouble on the southern border was caused by Congress, for the first time ever in setting a quota on legal immigration from people born in independent countries in the Western hemisphere starting in 1968.

    The other candidates had promised to ‘do something’ to encourage American industry, and support it against imports; Mr Trump said that he would impose tariffs and renegotiate what he called one-sided trade deals.

    Never and whether it would really happen or not or whether it would harm more U.S. citizens than help. It’s the seen and the unseen,

    http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html

    Both parties talked this nonsense. There are, of course, national security and antitrust reasons for avoiding long supply chains and local effects where you have one big or a few big employers ppr just the situation of people having worked themselves into better jobs than they could hope to get anywhere else.

    The best thing that could prevent rural or semi-rural factories closing is local ownership.

    Whether Mr Trump actually believed in these things I cannot say,

    He didn’t beieve any of this, especially on immigration. He was on record as saying Mitt Romney’s position of immigration had hrt him in 2012, Now trade, he tended to believe in.

    but he tapped into the populist spirit that was seeking more from the GOP than nominees like the Bushes, Mitt Romney or John McCain had ever pushed.

    The populist spirit was not self jhelp, – it was for doig the “right thing” as they had been taught by talk radio show hosts.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  112. 113. NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/14/2021 @ 10:23 am

    equating the biological warfare Wuhan Lab Flu with the Spanish Flu is beyond insulting.

    The Wuhan lab was getting money from the Chinese military and there can really be only one reason for this. But it was basic, not applied research, and, in a strong sense, they were really defrauding the Chinese military. Coronaviruses could not be turned ino a biological weapon, although studying them could help them learn principles.

    And sometimes, I suspect, they were maybe getting paid twice for the same research. By foreign sources and the Chinese military. Even if they had to give part of it back to the Chinese military.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  113. One more piece of evidence that following Trump is bad for your health:

    The Trump campaign’s leadership instructed staffers to “STOP TESTING” as a COVID-19 outbreak tore through staff working on former President Donald Trump’s June 2020 rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, according to a forthcoming book.

    In his new book, “Betrayal: The Final Act of the Trump Show,” ABC News Correspondent Jonathan Karl reveals new details about Trump’s disastrous Tulsa rally, which drew paltry turnout from supporters while causing a COVID-19 outbreak within Trumpworld.
    . . .
    But not long after arriving in Tulsa, a growing number staffers working on the event, including at least six Trump campaign staffers and two Secret Service agents, tested positive for the virus.

    Question for lawyers: Could those sickened by his campaign events sue Trump, or the campaign?

    Question for ethicists: Does Trump owe those sickened apologies and companesation?

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  114. https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/cdc-no-record-of-naturally-immune-transmitting-covid-19_4102046.html?utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-11-13-3&mktids=0450b10669127285e84719d0ef46f788&est=HcJAcqH3o6InAUmf1wqkO%2BBfuf0MNmkEHajgTaIH%2F%2B%2FJ8YWLg61MJDnTXMr%2BxRg%3D

    The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says it has no record of people who are naturally immune transmitting the virus that causes COVID-19.

    The federal health agency was asked during the fall by a lawyer on behalf of the Informed Consent Action Network for documents “reflecting any documented case of an individual who: (1) never received a COVID-19 vaccine; (2) was infected with COVID-19 once, recovered, and then later became infected again; and (3) transmitted SARS-CoV-2 to another person when reinfected.”

    The CDC confirmed to The Epoch Times that its Emergency Operations Center did not find any records responsive to the request.

    The agency declined to say whether any documentation had been found between Nov. 5 and Nov. 12, directing The Epoch Times to file a Freedom of Information Act Request for that information, which it did.

    “You would assume that if the CDC was going to crush the civil and individual rights of those with natural immunity by having them expelled from school, fired from their jobs, separated from the military, and worse, the CDC would have proof of at least one instance of an unvaccinated, naturally immune individual transmitting the COVID-19 virus to another individual. If you thought this, you would be wrong,” Aaron Siri, a lawyer who sought the records on behalf of the network, said in a blog post.

    The CDC’s disclosure drew responses from several medical experts, including Johns Hopkins Dr. Marty Makary, who said it underlined how little data the agency has released concerning the recovered.

    Makary called on the CDC to make public data on any re-infections that have resulted in hospitalization or death, with information on the patient’s comorbidities or lack thereof.

    “CDC should be transparent with data on natural immunity. Instead we get glimpses from FOIA requests like this one,” he wrote on Twitter.

    The CDC sets few firm rules but its guidance has proven enormously influential during the COVID-19 pandemic. Virtually all officials imposing COVID-19 vaccine mandates have left out the option for people to refuse the jab if they can prove they had COVID-19 and recovered, with many citing the CDC.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  115. 112. NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/14/2021 @ 10:20 am

    Aaron Rodgers is back today after his bout with the Wuhan virus. Somehow he survived just taking treatments such as something people on here called “horse dewormer” just like MSNBC did.

    We don’t know what treatments he got, but it could have included synthetic monoclonal antibodies (popular now – the other things are old hat) nor how serious a case he had, nor whether he had significant naturally acquired immunity.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  116. 117. This may have killed Herman Cain. This was June, 2020, not 2021.

    In Brazil, there is, OR WAS (THEY PULLED BACK) aovement to prosecute their president for MURDER for his Covid advice.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/19/bolsonaro-coronavirus-brazil-murder-charges-senate-report

    Charge Bolsonaro with murder over Covid toll, draft Brazil senate report says

    Draft text says neglect, incompetence and opposition to science fueled ‘stratospheric’ death toll

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  117. 118.

    The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says it has no record of people who are naturally immune transmitting the virus that causes COVID-19.

    It’s theory thatanyone who tests positive can transmit, or have transmitted the virus, Probabilities and severity are not looked at,

    . How would anybody know anyway? Well, maybe through DNA testing of the virus.

    One thing that gets lost here is that in transmission chain, successive cases likely get worse – and not because the virus is mutating.

    A court ruled against Biden’s vaccination mandate for businesses because it said it took no account of differences between businesses (except I think for excluding workers who work exclusively off the premises.)

    But part time and full time workers count the same.

    This could lead to firms with 98 employees having to fire 30 of them if they hire 2 — or possibly get down below 100 again.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  118. 111. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/14/2021 @ 10:17 am

    Perot may have very well made an accusation that the Bush campaign plotted to wiretap him. It would have been lost in the wider accusation.

    I think many of the accusations he made were supplied by some sources — Perot thought it was OK if he believed things so long as he didn’t say them in public.

    That only allowed him not to be disabused of slander. He could at least have confronted Bush. He might have figured things out there, then.

    My thoughts about Ed Rollins is a hunch.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  119. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/11/covid-and-kids-a-policy-disaster.php

    I’ve said it before, but will repeat myself: what we have done to our children and young people, in the name of protecting the oldest and sickest in our population, is a crime. We have known for a long time that covid is not dangerous to children, yet they have suffered more than anyone else from the irrational lockdowns that one government after another has imposed. Even today, it is hard to get kids back in school in some areas, and in many it is impossible without requiring masks.

    Recent studies out of the U.K. reveal how little children ever had to fear from covid, while at the same documenting the devastating effects of shutdowns on their lives. The Telegraph reports:

    The people who have sacrificed the lives of children because of their own fears need to pay for this tragedy.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  120. The Ross Perot vote was a mistake because he turned out to be a paranoid nutcase.

    Ross Perot’s 19% put a scare into the major parties and led to a briefly balanced budget. And the one who busted it was W, not Clinton.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  121. if Never Trumpers hadn’t been so busy trashing Mr Trump’s reputation.

    Ha! The star witness against Trump was Trump himself.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. Makes me wonder how many fewer votes the odious Mrs Clinton would have received if Never Trumpers hadn’t been so busy trashing Mr Trump’s reputation.

    Good grief, he’s an adult. Let him own his own tarnished reputation because he alone is solely responsible for his lack moral fortitude, lack of integrity, and disregard for anyone else unless they benefit him politically or monetarily. Let’s not infantilize him as though he was incapable or unable to make honest decisions. His reputation was already was already reflective of his incredible lack of a moral compass and insatiable greed before the campaign. It didn’t take those so-called NeverTrumpers to do that for him.

    Dana (174549)

  123. equating the biological warfare Wuhan Lab Flu with the Spanish Flu is beyond insulting.

    If Covid is actually a biological attack on the West, what does that say about those who, for selfish reasons, refuse to participate in the common defense?

    But Americans were made of sterner stuff then than the marshmallow fluff of today.

    Oh.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says it has no record of people who are naturally immune transmitting the virus that causes COVID-19.

    It also has no record of people born out of wedlock, people who are left-handed, or people who smoke crack transmitting the virus. Why? Because it has no record of these people whatsoever.

    This is beyond belief stupid to trot out as an argument; there is no record of people who are “naturally immune.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  125. The Epoch Times

    This explains it. Not the place to look for science or reason. A virulently anti-China religious organization that champions Mr Trump and the Le Pens is not my goto source for Covid information. They may well be right about how the virus started, but that’s more a stopped-clock thing than anything else.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  126. 112,

    That’s because it is used to deworm horses:

    Product Details

    IVERMECTIN SAFETY ALERT:

    Ivermectin HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans and could cause severe personal injury or death. These products are only suitable for animals and are clearly labeled as such. Click here for more information on Ivermectin and COVID-19.

    Treat your animals with this Durvet Ivermectin 1.87% Horse Wormer Paste. This horse worm medicine provides effective control of large strongyles, small strongyles, pinworms, ascarids, hairworms, large-mouth stomach worms, bots, lungworms, intestinal threadworms, summer sores and dermatitis. Plus, ivermectin horse wormer comes in a convenient apple flavor for easier administration.

    Ivermectin horse wormer removes worms and bots with a single dose
    Safe to use on all horses, including broodmares, breeding stallions, and young foals
    Paste-gel horse worm medicine is easy to administer
    Allows horses to reach their full potential by providing effective, safe parasite protection

    Dana (174549)

  127. Nobel prizes for horse paste…

    Totally believable.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  128. They gave a Novel Prize in Medicine for “the lobotomy.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  129. *NoBel

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  130. Abstract

    In 2015, the Nobel Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of ivermectin (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world’s most devastating tropical diseases. Since March 2020, when IVM was first used against a new global scourge, COVID-19, more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) have tracked such inpatient and outpatient treatments. Six of seven meta-analyses of IVM treatment RCTs reporting in 2021 found notable reductions in COVID-19 fatalities, with a mean 31% relative risk of mortality vs. controls. During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive treatments. Reductions in deaths correlated with the extent of IVM distributions in all 25 states with p < 0.002. Sharp reductions in morbidity using IVM were also observed in two animal models, of SARS-CoV-2 and a related betacoronavirus. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains.

    Keywords: COVID-19, H. pylori, ivermectin, SARS-CoV-2, spike protein
    Introduction

    The 2015 Nobel prize for the discovery of ivermectin (IVM) and an antimalarial treatment was the Nobel committee’s first award for treatment agents for infectious diseases since the one in 1952 for streptomycin [1]. A macrocyclic lactone of multifaceted potency [2,3], IVM as deployed worldwide since 1987 has made major inroads against two devastating tropical diseases, onchocerciasis and lymphatic filariasis [4]. During the year since IVM treatment was first applied to COVID-19, another global scourge [5], results from more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) of IVM treatment of COVID-19 have been reported [2,6,7], with inpatient and outpatient treatments of COVID-19 conducted in 25 countries [2]. A likely biological mechanism has been indicated to be competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein sites, as reviewed [8,9].

    Recently, Dr Satoshi Omura, the Nobel co-laureate for the discovery of IVM, and colleagues conducted a comprehensive review of IVM clinical activity against COVID-19, concluding that the preponderance of the evidence demonstrated major reductions in mortality and morbidity [2]. Our review of that evidence, updated with consideration of several new studies, supports the same conclusion.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/

    Probably BS.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  131. They gave Pulitzers for “Russia, Russia, Russia.”

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  132. https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1456355105675087875?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    So, the guy who defeated the NJ Senate president ran because he was denied a concealed carry permit.
    I’m sure this will all go very well and produce a fine, informed legislator.

    Run of the mill anti-civilian legislator and anti-2nd amendment rights rhetoric from leftist Tom Nichols.

    Remember when people used to cite him as a voice worth listening to?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  133. Dana,

    doctor proscribed ivermectin is not and never has been horse paste.

    You know that and it’s sad that you posted what you did above.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  134. Run of the mill anti-civilian legislator and anti-2nd amendment rights rhetoric from leftist Tom Nichols.

    Remember when people used to cite him as a voice worth listening to?

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/14/2021 @ 11:42 am

    Back in 1991, Wellington Webb won an upset in the Denver mayor’s race by pounding pavement on a face-to-face campaign tour of the city. He talked to people directly and listened to their concerns. Durr’s campaign was won in much the same fashion.

    The sour grapes of Tom “Why Don’t These Rubes Shut Up and Do What They’re Told” Nichols aside, what’s more instructive about Durr’s candidacy is what conservatives could accomplish if they dropped the outdated anti-government antipathy and civic apathy, and actually treat their involvement as a duty to their communities.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  135. Who does General H. R. McMaster blame for America’s surrender to the Taliban?

    Obama, Trump, and Biden.

    McMASTER: Well, I think there’s responsibility across multiple administrations. And I would put a lot of responsibility on the Obama administration, especially in connection with announcing in 2009 the timeline for our withdrawal from Afghanistan and then trying to negotiate with a terrorist organization, the Taliban, and that was delusional.

    And then the Trump administration for doubling down on those same flaws, not understanding the nature of the enemy, and again, giving a timeline for a withdrawal, making concession after concession, and then thinking you’re going to get a favorable agreement.

    Then President Biden could have reversed those horrible decisions and that fundamentally flawed approach to the war, and he didn’t.

    Reminder: It is a mistake to put narcissists in charge of anything.

    (H. R. McMaster)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  136. Factory Working Orphan,

    agreed.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  137. “The policy positions Donald Trump took in 2015 and 2016 are what energized the Republican base for him”

    Ho Ho Ho. If the base can’t get up to defeat Hillary Clinton….it will never get up. Whether the candidate was Ted Cruz, John Kasich, or Jeb Bush….there was extra incentive to deny the White House to the screeching Clinton. Trump’s positions were simply an exaggeration….maybe even a parody….of right-wing media. Did we need an ever-getting-higher 2,000-mile concrete border wall? Did we really need to stop all Muslims from entering the country? Did we win our easily-winnable trade war with China? Talk Radio loved Trump because he essentially aped their schtick on national TV and Twitter, riling up everybody…so they…pro or con…would tune in for the next installment.

    It’s pretty far from leadership which at least attempts to build bipartisanship with evidence-based arguments….providing some compromise…in order to make lasting change. Change that’s not erased the moment the White House switches hands. Biden…like Obama after Bush…then reflexively swings the pendulum too far in the other direction…making the issue more and more radioactive to reason and sound policy. Though Trump’s team gave us more immigration judges, it really failed to do enough enforcing the already existing laws against hiring illegals. Why do you suppose? Is the international trade situation much better now…or is it simply the act of doing something bold…..even though his own chief economic advisor…Gary Cohn…resigned over it.

    Our politics is toxic. Our media and social media make it more toxic. Trump thrived on the toxicity. At some point we have to just stop and think about what we are leaving for future generations….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  138. At some point we have to just stop and think about what we are leaving for future generations…

    I would have thought people would have considered that when they voted for Biden. Maybe they did and this is the direction 81 million people preferred.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  139. Unlike something that supposed occurred in a Russian hotel room, this actually happened.

    urbanleftbehind (ecba1d)

  140. Probably BS.

    We agree, because if there are more 2nd and 3rd rate studies that show effectiveness but no randomized clinical trials that show same, he can say there’s a “preponderance” but he’s being misleading.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  141. @101. ‘AJ: The tent isn’t growing… there are more voters voting against Trumpism. The gap is widening.’

    Except it’s not.

    Obviously 81M remains bigger than 74-plus M– and a large number of that 81 million were party disgruntled defectors– but the more significant metric is the 74-plus million was a larger number than the previous cycle– even w/Trump and w/t defectors leaving. It’s growing– the growth pattern is w/populism and has been for several cycles– the data shows it; it’s not ‘Trumpism’- Trump was just a vessel to carry populism forward– the pattern is there. And populism tasted victory w/a ‘Trump’ [and he’d likely have been re-elected w/o the pandemic horror.] Populism is not going away in these times- especially as traditional ideologues still sour the eoectorate and offer no substantive alternative [Gingrich’s best pitch was another ‘contract w/America’– few will buy that baloney again]… and the blatant incompetence of the current ’50 years experienced’ administration only serves to fuel populism all the more– look at the numbers — buyers remorse 101. The irony is the Biden/Harris team are the best campaigners for populism/Trumpism or whatever you care to label it. The contrast is glaring.

    ‘The whole media system is premised on entertainment….and clicks, views, and likes….rather than dealing with objective reality.’

    Really AJ? And you know exactly who to thank for that, don’t you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeNuISN4Dc

    This video is like eating a bowl of sugar.

    As I’ve often said, AJ: in this era, Americans don’t want to be governed; they wish to be entertained.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  142. I guess it was all good because Vin Scully was there…what about the Frank Rizzo of baseball with the gay son?

    urbanleftbehind (ecba1d)

  143. Our politics is toxic. Our media and social media make it more toxic.

    No. It’s just changing. You think Lincoln could have won today?

    Ask Bob Newhart:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRvh1VBFCuM

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  144. I guess it was all good because Vin Scully was there…

    LOL – the best part is when you-know-who copped to faking play-by-play to listeners… you know, “lying.” 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  145. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/14/2021 @ 12:25 pm

    I lost a bet with my spouse. I told her you would fake engage by saying “False,” because that is your automatic response.

    You surprised me. 😐

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  146. I guess I would like to understand how taking an anti-parasite drug (think lice or worms) like ivermectin is supposed to pharmacologically operate against covid? What I read is that it is supposed to inhibit or interfere with protein transport….but that the doses required to be effective against covid are too high for what is recommended for humans. Many of the reported studies have had problems with their data sets…and my understanding is that there is just not enough evidence to conclude statistically that there is a benefit to taking it. Claiming that it “cured” Joe Rogan or Aaron Rodgers seems to confuse causation and correlation….it’s not how science is done….I’ve heard. I guess we’ll see if Rodgers has any “long covid” effects…..I hope not…except for when he plays the Bears of course!

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  147. I would have thought people would have considered that when they voted for Biden. Maybe they did and this is the direction 81 million people preferred.

    The real disappointment isn’t him- he is what he is to those who’ve known him and his record. It’s the media. A generation ago, reporters in 1988 literally ran him out of the race for doing something they themselves, would be fired for immediately. The generation today gave him a pass on it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  148. @139. Reminder: It is a mistake to put narcissists in charge of anything.

    The most narcissistic U.S. presidents- Pew Research Center 11/14/13

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/11/14/the-most-narcissistic-u-s-presidents/

    Granted this is a 2013 study- but the names at the top of the list may surprise and disappoint you.

    And the least narcissistic: Millard Fillmore. Yeah, we need more Fillmores filling top spots in the 21st century. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  149. “I would have thought people would have considered that when they voted for Biden. Maybe they did and this is the direction 81 million people preferred.”

    I think most didn’t want the old guy in the basement, but they wanted get the troll out of the White House more. There’s a reason Biden polled at 1% going into 2008. He’s a placeholder and a clear sign that the DEMs have to really rethink their candidate development process (Hillary, Warren, Bernie, Bloomberg….it’s really a head scratcher). They need to find moderate governors that have a few accomplishments and show they can run a state. It’s actually the same for the GOP. Senate windbags and out-of-touch bored billionaires are not the answer…..

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  150. Tom Elliott
    @tomselliott

    MSNBC’s @TiffanyDCross: Trucking “is an industry populated by a lot of white men over the age of 55. This group of people overwhelmingly voted for Trump. Some people have talked about, you know, aggressive truck drivers cutting them off or not being helpful.”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1459855233157410817

    No truck drivers in the preferred 81 million? That’s strange.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  151. I think most didn’t want the old guy in the basement, but they wanted get the troll out of the White House more.

    So they were uninformed voters that had no regard for future generations?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  152. They need to find moderate governors that have a few accomplishments and show they can run a state. It’s actually the same for the GOP. Senate windbags and out-of-touch bored billionaires are not the answer…..

    Welcome to the two-party system. And its multiple decade failures are exactly what keeps watering and rooting populism deep and deeper today.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  153. I guess I would like to understand how taking an anti-parasite drug (think lice or worms) like ivermectin is supposed to pharmacologically operate against covid? What I read is that it is supposed to inhibit or interfere with protein transport….but that the doses required to be effective against covid are too high for what is recommended for humans.

    Here is an explanation. Try not to let the manner of presentation turn you off.

    felipe (484255)

  154. “but the more significant metric is the 74-plus million was a larger number than the previous cycle”

    How is it not significant that the delta voting against Trump got bigger? I’ll give you that it was close in some states but he did lose…then go on to get impeached yet again. How exactly is that helping his appeal with suburban women?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  155. “So they were uninformed voters that had no regard for future generations?”

    I think those that were persuadable….thought they chose the least bad option. Trump was a norm buster in word and deed. I suspect that many reluctant Biden voters simply don’t want a repeat of Jan 6th and all of the election exaggerations/lies that continued afterwards. Third-world despotism just doesn’t sell beyond the jacked-up pickup crowd. As I said, Biden is a placeholder who will be off the ticket in 2024. Eventually the DEMs will stumble onto a candidate that gets it…

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  156. NJRob wrote:

    Aaron Rodgers is back today after his bout with the Wuhan virus. Somehow he survived just taking treatments such as something people on here called “horse dewormer” just like MSNBC did.

    Go figure.

    P.S. Vaccinated Ben Roethlisberger is out with COVID.

    The vaccinated Joel Embiid is out for the 76ers due to a positive test. Yet somehow, while everyone is trashing Aaron Rodgers, no one seems to note that fully vaccinated players are also testing positive. Now, the CDC are saying that ‘herd immunity’ is not an achievable goal:

    Dr Jefferson Jones, a medical officer on the CDC’s COVID-19 Epidemiology Task Force.

    “Thinking that we’ll be able to achieve some kind of threshold where there’ll be no more transmission of infections may not be possible,” Jones acknowledged last week to members of a panel that advises the CDC on vaccines.

    Vaccines have been quite effective at preventing cases of COVID-19 that lead to severe illness and death, but none has proved reliable at blocking transmission of the virus, Jones noted. Recent evidence has also made clear that the immunity provided by vaccines can wane in a matter of months.

    The result is that even if vaccination were universal, the coronavirus would probably continue to spread.

    “We would discourage” thinking in terms of “a strict goal,” he said.

    If such is the case, vaccination appears to be personally useful, but its societal usage is questionable. If none have proven “reliable at blocking transmission of the virus,” what is the justification for compelling vaccination? At this point, choosing not to get vaccinated puts an individual at greater danger, but it’s a danger for himself, without being a proven greater danger to others.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693)

  157. I think those that were persuadable….thought they chose the least bad option.

    What was the list of Trump’s norm busters they desperately needed halted to make them choose Biden? Jan 6th hadn’t happened so evil insurrectionist wasn’t an issue on Election Day.

    BTW, felipe’s video is pretty good so far.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  158. James Surowiecki gives one reason so many are fooled by COVID numbers:

    The speed and efficiency with which McAnulty’s misstatement traveled testify to the way anti-vaxxers and vaccine skeptics use social media to disseminate the message that the vaccines are unnecessary, ineffective and dangerous. But they also demonstrate how the successful spread of that message depends on an unfortunate fact: An awful lot of people just don’t do math. The message lands easily because of the general innumeracy — and specifically the ignorance of statistics — of the people consuming it.

    Particularly a lot of Americans:

    Americans are generally bad at math. A 2012 global study of the math skills of 16-to-65-year-olds found that American adults were less numerate than adults in most other developed countries.

    In spite of the efforts of three Republican presidents: Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush to improve our schools.

    (Those who have followed him over the years won’t be surprised that the “Gateway Pundit” is an example of this innumeracy.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  159. I lost a bet with my spouse. I told her you would fake engage by saying “False,” because that is your automatic response.

    “Fake engage”? I hope Mrs. BuDuh gets something nice.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  160. More bad news on COVID, this time from a study of white-tailed deer:

    Now veterinarians at Pennsylvania State University have found active SARS-CoV-2 infections in at least 30% of deer tested across Iowa during 2020. Their study, published online last week, suggests that white-tailed deer could become what’s known as a reservoir for SARS-CoV-2. That is, the animals could carry the virus indefinitely and spread it back to humans periodically.

    If that’s the case, it would essentially dash any hopes of eliminating or eradicating the virus in the U.S. — and therefore from the world — says veterinary virologist Suresh Kuchipudi at Penn State, who co-led the study.

    The scientists don’t know how the deer get it from people, but they did find that the variants in the deer tracked the variants in people closely, so it has been happening continuously.

    And they don’t know, as yet, whether people can get it from the white-tailed deer, and, if so, how easily.

    (COVID apparently doesn’t make the deer sick.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  161. She gets break from me explaining how you don’t read entire links before you comment about them.

    She is grateful.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  162. From Jim’s link:

    In September of last year, computer models suggested SARS-CoV-2 could easily bind to and enter the deer’s cells. A recent survey of white-tailed deer in the Northeast and Midwest found that 40% of them had antibodies against SARS-CoV-2.

    How did those poor deer, last year, survive without a vaccine???

    Maybe the naturally immune members of our free society can go to the veterinarians for antibody tests since the CDC doesn’t seem to care.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  163. Bloomberg Reports, The Number of Booster Shots Needed to Be Defined as Vaccinated is Unknown

    November 14, 2021 | Sundance | 7 Comments
    Well, there it is. According to political engineers who are tasked with pushing the COVID-19 narrative, the bureaucrats who determine U.S. health policy have not yet decided on how many booster shots will be needed to keep a person’s “vaccinated status” compliant.

    Put another way, they have not determined the vaccine rate that keeps the pharmaceutical companies operating at maximum profitability.

    Bloomberg – […] Some states, such as California and Colorado, have opened up booster shots to all adults who are at least six months past their second mRNA dose. It may turn out that the term “booster” is a bit of a misnomer, and that the correct number of shots for maximum efficacy isn’t yet known.

    Vaccination recommendations often change as more data becomes available over time. “It’s a good idea to keep an eye on CDC guidance.”

    […] It’s possible, says Justman, that the months-long gap between initial doses of the vaccine and boosters will help the immune system maintain a strong response for a much longer period than the initial regimen did. But we need more data to have any sort of definitive answer on that, she says. (link)

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/11/14/bloomberg-reports-the-number-of-booster-shots-needed-to-be-defined-as-vaccinated-is-unknown/

    That’s nice.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  164. She gets break from me explaining how you don’t read entire links before you comment about them.

    And there you go, saying something false.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  165. LOL.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  166. But that is a good cue for me to do something else.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  167. If such is the case, vaccination appears to be personally useful, but its societal usage is questionable. If none have proven “reliable at blocking transmission of the virus,” what is the justification for compelling vaccination? At this point, choosing not to get vaccinated puts an individual at greater danger, but it’s a danger for himself, without being a proven greater danger to others.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693) — 11/14/2021 @ 1:26 pm

    Most of this has to do with the still-operating delusion in most of the western world that we’re going to eventually get to a zero-COVID existence if we just give everyone the jab. Some countries are giving in and accepting that reality, but it hasn’t settled in yet at the macro level where it really matters.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  168. The other Dana quoted the CDC: “Vaccines have been quite effective at preventing cases of COVID-19 that lead to severe illness and death, . . ”

    And then concluded: “vaccination appears to be personally useful, but its societal usage is questionable”.

    Well, some of us think preventing severe illnesses (and thus saving American money) and preventing deaths (and thus saving American lives) has societal value.

    Some of us even think that preventing severe illnesses and deaths world wide has societal value.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  169. “Rev. Al Sharpton sat with the slain man’s family.
    I can see how that would be prejudicial.”

    I’m fair enough not to blame the family for some grifter known for his ability to shoehorn himself in

    steveg (e81d76)

  170. Well, some of us think preventing severe illnesses (and thus saving American money) and preventing deaths (and thus saving American lives) has societal value.

    A government mandate to make people work out for an hour a day would do more for that than this one specific, situational shot.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  171. FWO – Do you believe in individual responsibility? Do you think Trump should locate and compensate the people sickened at his campaign events?

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  172. Jim, if you were fine with 600,000 a year dying from heart disease without the smug proclamations about people who weren’t doing their part just didn’t care enough, you’re really in no position to try that kind of emotional manipulation or your typical pathetic “whattabout Trump?” deflection on anyone.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  173. What will strike most who read histories of earlier pandemics is how similar people’s behavior is in this one to their behavior in the Black Death and the 1918 Spanish flu. And, no doubt, many other pandemics.)

    In all three, many people turned to magic potions.

    In all three people blamed foreigners. In the 1918 epidemic, for example, rumors circulated that it had been spread from a German submarine.

    In all three, a minority refused to face the seriousness of the pandemic and, if anything, stepped up their partying. (And, another minority reacted too strongly.)

    In all three, ambitious men put their political goals above the interest of the people. In the 1918 epidemic, Philadelphia held a big parade to help sell war bonds — and spread the disease to thousands.

    In all three, many people rejected the Golden Rule, and acted only in their own selfish interests.

    And, in all three, as Surowieki might say, innumeracy made responses worse than they could have been.

    We should not refuse to learn from history — as far too many are doing, now.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  174. #154 DCSCA – I looked at that list of narcissistic presidents — and concluded that it is not among Pew’s best work (other than putting Teddy Roosevelt near the top).

    (Everyone should know this quote about TR: “My father always wanted to be the corpse at every funeral, the bride at every wedding and the baby at every christening.”)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  175. Mr Miller wrote:

    Well, some of us think preventing severe illnesses (and thus saving American money) and preventing deaths (and thus saving American lives) has societal value.

    I do not disagree, but that does not mean such should override our individual rights.

    By all means, get vaccinated if you believe it best; I certainly have. But I do not believe that we should force it on people who choose differently.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (23a693)

  176. Reminder: It is a mistake to put narcissists in charge of anything.

    You have to have signigicant self-esteem to run for President. Although in Trump’s case it was mostly an inferiority complex wrapped in a front of arrogance and superiority, so we can’t always generalize.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  177. Talk Radio loved Trump because he essentially aped their schtick on national TV and Twitter, riling up everybody…so they…pro or con…would tune in for the next installment.

    And the other candidates (those RINOs!), who had been ignoring the Talkradio masses for years, continued to ignore them. At best they condescended to them, hoping to pick up Trump’s support after he flamed out. Problem was that Trump couldn’t flame out since his posse only cared about one thing: that he echoed their rants.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  178. LOL – the best part is when you-know-who copped to faking play-by-play to listeners… you know, “lying.”

    It’s what most of them did back them. He was a radio announcer in Des Moines, Iowa, for gawdsakes. It’s not like they were going to send him to a stadium in Chicago or St Louis to call the game.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  179. And the least narcissistic: Millard Fillmore. Yeah, we need more Fillmores filling top spots in the 21st century.

    Millard Fillmore was the best of a bad lot (Harrison, Tyler, Taylor, Pierce and Buchanan). He actually managed to put off civil war for a decade, by making the Compromise of 1850 happen. Mediocre beats terrible every time.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  180. Off-topic: What do you thin the chances are of the COP-26 agreement amounting to anything when se can’t even get people to be vaccinated against a disease that has killed millions? If global warming is real, and the seas start rising I very much doubt the lawyers of the world will pause for even a moment to agree on a solution.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  181. Pass on the venison sausage but please save the blood at point of kill for the monoclonal antibodies. Better Bambi than sidling up to mg with a arm length syringe.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  182. Anti-vaxxers now touting “detox bath”:

    On TikTok, anti-vaxxers have rallied around influencer Carrie Madej, who claims she can “detoxx the vaxx.”

    Her solution? A bath with baking soda for “radiation” and epsom salt for “poisons.”

    Then, she says, add Borax to clean out “nanotechnologies.”


    Dana (174549)

  183. Talk radio loves Trump because, like them, what he makes his living at is running his mouth.

    nk (1d9030)

  184. As I said, Dana, “magic potions”.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  185. Dana not from a Commonwealth:

    It would be simpler, particular for first responder/municipal employees or large employers and trades, to establish a network of nurses to administer falsely labeled placebos. Have a secret sign or password to flash or a distinct mask.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  186. Wow, Dana!!! That is probably a group representative of the whole!

    Good find!

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  187. 164. James Surowieck

    The speed and efficiency with which McAnulty’s misstatement traveled testify to the way anti-vaxxers and vaccine skeptics use social media to disseminate the message that the vaccines are unnecessary, ineffective and dangerous.

    Right wing talking points in general are based on “proving” things using the other side’s own words.

    But they also demonstrate how the successful spread of that message depends on an unfortunate fact: An awful lot of people just don’t do math.

    The error there had nothing to do with math. It had to do with knowledge of a whole assortment of other facts.

    Innumeracy (and lack of perspective) has more to do with the point Power Line blog made:

    Covid killed just six healthy children during the pandemic…The research examining more than 3,000 deaths of under-18s in England in the year since the first lockdown found a “tiny” proportion were linked to Covid.

    Just 25 deaths were caused by the virus, and only six of those involved children without underlying conditions.

    [I]f a child tests positive for the virus, they have a 99.995 per cent chance of surviving.

    In any population of tens or hundreds of millions of people, some are going to die. And British children have died, just not from covid:

    The same year saw more than 1,100 heart deaths among children, along with almost 1,200 fatalities linked to neurological conditions and more than 450 deaths among under-18s with respiratory conditions, according to research published in the journal Nature Medicine.

    Separate data show that on average, about 900 children die annually from infectious diseases, with about 90 deaths from flu or pneumonia among children in 2019 in England.

    But just 25 from Covid (of course that was with all the precautions, which also reduced flu and pneumonia. But the Tekegraph doesn;t tell us the number for 2020 or even make a guess as to it.

    That whole thing destroys not only the argument for masks and isolation among children but also the argument for the importance of vaccinating them.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  188. Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 11/14/2021 @ 2:31 pm

    Most of this has to do with the still-operating delusion in most of the western world that we’re going to eventually get to a zero-COVID existence if we just give everyone the jab.

    Trump a year ago said it would happen with or without that. (probably based on the 1918 flu.)

    An alternative position is that it will never happen.

    That it will happen but only if we can vaccinate more people is not based on anything except hope and desperation.

    There is yet another position: That Covid will still be around and even regularly kill some people, but if the numbers are low enough we can (whisper) decide to ignore that.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  189. 188,

    Her solution? A bath with baking soda for “radiation” and epsom salt for “poisons.”

    Then, she says, add Borax to clean out “nanotechnologies.”


    The key point is that this can be done without a prescription and at low cost. (that’s why she doesn’t mention Regeneron or the other antibodies)

    But even with those conditions: low costs and no prescription necessary, Merck and Pfizer are going to in competition with that in about a year. The big problem would be knowing when to take the pills.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  190. Thank you Sammy for actually reading the link.

    NJRob (729361)

  191. #181 We force whole sets of vaccinations on school kids in every state. And we have been forcing vaccinations on our army ever since George Washington.

    Since police and firemen will often be in contact with others, I think it reasonable to require them to be vaccinated against COVID, both for their own safety, and for the safety of those they come in contact with. (As you probably know, COVID is the leading cause of death among police officers.)

    As for other government employees, it depends on the job. If their home is a fire lookout, then vaccinations are probably not necessary. For teachers, it is necessary.

    For private employees, it would again depend; this set of rules for the NFL seems reasonable, considering how much contact there is in the sport, and how often the players share spaces outside of games.

    In general, I have no objection to employers requiring vaccinations as a condition of employment. (If, like the NFL, they allow daily tests to substitute for vaccinations, I think it reasonable to require the non-vaxxed to pay for the tests, after a week or so.)

    But I doubt that Biden has the power to require vaccinations for private companies. (And I don’t know enough to say whether governors do, in all the different states.)

    I think governments ought to reward companies where all the employees vaccinated, if only with signs they can display in their windows.

    It should be obvious, but of course I support medical exemptions, when necessary.

    Finally, I support vaccinations because I believe we would all be better off if we were to follow the Golden Rule. Everyone who gets vaccinated makes life a little better for everyone they come in contact with.

    (Speculation: The Washington Post had an interesting analysis today, concluding that Trump had encouraged Democrats to move left. I wonder whether Biden’s harder line on vaccinations might be a similar reaction, whether he might be trying to do the opposite of what Trump seems to want.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  192. The officer mentioned in Jim’s article:

    Cockburn, 59, was an officer for the Village of Florida near Glenmere Lake in Orange County, and a retired sergeant with the Town of Warwick. His daughter Kayleigh announced his passing and the cause of death in a Facebook post on Sept. 15.

    “He, and I, implore you to understand the dangers of this disease and do everything you can to keep each other safe, including getting the vaccine and wearing a mask,” she wrote in the social media post. His vaccination status is unknown.

    https://www.timesunion.com/hudsonvalley/news/article/59-year-old-police-officer-dies-from-COVID-16467719.php

    That would seem important for the argument that is being made.

    BuDuh (57a516)

  193. How is it not significant that the delta voting against Trump got bigger?

    ‘Against Trump’ is the wrong metric; the 6 or 7 million-plus- the ideological party defectors; the NR, Lincoln Project, Will/French/Goldberg types rather than ‘pro-Biden.’ Fixation on Trump is misdirection when the focus should be on the continuing growth of populism– it grew– and keeps growing as the growth of indies continues and affiliation w/either major party dwindles.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  194. @180. If you can’t dispute the data, dispute the source of same. It’s an old ploy. Doesn’t change their conclusions.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  195. I’m fair enough not to blame the family for some grifter known for his ability to shoehorn himself in

    See Tawana Brawley for details.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  196. There’s another reason why folks are looking for “magic potions” in lieu of vaccines: It’s because vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences!
    There’s no actual content provided by Rockwell, just a link to this nutter site where they urge us to buy white pine needles and also provide “helpful” links about HCQ and ivermectin, of course.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  197. That sounds like some mainstream stuff you found there, Paul.

    Very impressive.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  198. Lew Rockwell(whoever that is:

    This site ranks: #20,914 in global internet engagement

    https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/lewrockwell.com

    Powerful voice!

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  199. Jen Psaki
    @PressSec

    United States government official

    For anyone who needs to hear it. @VP is not only a vital partner to @POTUS but a bold leader who has taken on key, important challenges facing the country—from voting rights to addressing root causes of migration to expanding broadband.
    6:20 PM · Nov 14, 2021·

    https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1460070063025831936

    Why would 81 million people need to hear this? They voted for this future for subsequent generations.

    Is she trying to woo the truck drivers?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  200. That sounds like some mainstream stuff you found there, Paul.

    Thank you, BuDuh. Lew Rockwell (an Infowars contributor) is what it is, and they’re all about promoting white pine needles, HCQ and ivermectin.
    BTW, we’ve finally found out how nutter you have to be get fired from Newsmax. All you have to do is claim that the Covid vaccines contain a “bioluminescent marker called LUCIFERASE so that you can be tracked”. Ms. Robinson was the Newsmax White House correspondent.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  201. Those crazy people, Paul. I’ll bet 74 million of them must be roaming about. That is why it is so important to you, I guess.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  202. “add Borax to clean out “nanotechnologies.””

    A lot of people forget this part….can’t forget those little suckers

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  203. Back in the day, Limbaugh used to joke that the best way to get the economic upper hand over Japan was to export American liberalism to that country. I don’t know if we succeeded in that endeavor, but we have exported Columbo. Yes!

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  204. Those crazy people, Paul. I’ll bet 74 million of them must be roaming about. That is why it is so important to you, I guess.

    What’s a little nutpicking between friends, BuDuh.
    I didn’t realize that my last couple comments were “important” to me, so thanks for telling me what my real state of mind is. I wouldn’t have known otherwise.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  205. Not a problem, Paul. Not sure how you missed your own important posts.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  206. I have to head to bed, Paul. I can’t wait to see what you find for me to read in the morning.

    Probably something really representative of those darn horrible massive groups of influential people that cause you grief.

    👍

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  207. Jen Psaki
    @PressSec

    United States government official

    For anyone who needs to hear it. @VP is not only a vital partner to @POTUS but a bold leader who has taken on key, important challenges facing the country—from voting rights to addressing root causes of migration to expanding broadband.
    6:20 PM · Nov 14, 2021

    Really, Jen? Kam’s a quitter:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7752137/Kamala-Harris-drops-2020-presidential-race-cratering-poll-numbers.html

    ‘Harris, 55, struggled to gain traction outside her native California, lagging behind the Democratic pack in poll after poll. She averaged 3 per cent support. Bloomberg splashed in with 6 per cent this week before he started campaigning.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  208. Well yes, BuDuh, my most important function as a commenter is to find things for you to read. Why else would I be here.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  209. It is beyond me, Paul. It certainly isn’t to read what I post and link before you expertly comment.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  210. I remember when GOP operatives were fretting about Sarah Palin as VP, and now present-day Democrat operatives are fretting about the Kratering of Kamala..
    We can’t slide into an alternative universe to see how VP Palin would’ve performed if McCain were elected, but we’re the seeing disaster of the Harris vice presidency unfold before our very eyes, just like I’ve been watching the complete collapse of the Husky football program.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  211. It certainly isn’t to read what I post and link before you expertly comment.

    But BuDuh, I do read what you post. I didn’t have to read your link today because I read it months ago when anti-vaxxers were using it as an “ah hah!” about drugs that never showed effectiveness in gold standard clinical trials.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  212. I’d guess that the crazy is found mostly on the antivaxx sites though. Unless of course you think that getting a vaccine for a virus is crazy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  213. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-questions-rittenhouse-gun-charge-jonathan-turley

    For those partisans who want Rittenhouse convicted and think he obviously violated the law by having a weapon… read on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  214. Oh, no, another ivermectin study retracted, this time because a dog ate their homework their data was, uh, garbled. The less subtle reason is that the parties committed scientific fraud.
    The Health Nerd is a real epidemiologist and this thread is but one of his multiple examples of how ivermectin advocates are misrepresenting the studies that have been put out there.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  215. Turley neglects to mention that Wisconsin’s open carry law applies to folks 18 and over. This isn’t the first time Turley has neglected key points of law. We’ll see how the judge or jury decides.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  216. Paul,

    you left out your mention as a failed Democrat in your history post. Why is that?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  217. you left out your mention as a failed Democrat in your history post. Why is that?

    Why do you ask disingenuous questions, Rob?
    I failed as a Democrat in 1979, when I was 18, when I said that I was transitioning from Democrat to Republican. I know you like to characterize Trump critics as liberals and Democrats (and have said so), but you’re lying when you go where because an untold number of us remain conservative and remain Republican.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  218. As I recall, our very first interaction didn’t go well. Once dishonest hack, always one, I suppose.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  219. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/14/2021 @ 10:10 pm

    I think embracing authoritarianism and letting fear or emotion override your critical thinking is a bad idea. When it comes to covid we see a lot of excellent examples of that in comments here.

    I wouldn’t call it crazy but it’s certainly unproductive and after some time when we get to more fully appreciate the consequences of these fear driven choices that might change.

    frosty (f27e97)

  220. “The Health Nerd” has some pretty horrible takes in his articles for The Guardian. That which he praised ended in failure.

    But he fits the bill, so he is your expert of choice. I was hoping for something more thought provoking to read.

    Oh well. Maybe this evening.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  221. Paul,

    You’re fibbing again. That’s okay. We both know the truth.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  222. You’re fibbing again. That’s okay. We both know the truth.

    You’re lying that I’m lying, Rob. Typical and predictable.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  223. Paul, Interesting read in the ivermectin mistake/fraud. I’m not surprised it hasn’t lead to any retraction or backing down of claims, which is a shame.

    Time123 (769bf4)

  224. That which he praised ended in failure.

    What specifically?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  225. Can’t do your work for you, Paul.

    Meanwhile:

    “COUNT 6: POSSESSION OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON BY A PERSON UNDER 18” was just dismissed by the Rittenhouse judge.

    LOL

    I’ll be back later.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  226. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/14/2021 @ 2:45 pm

    FWO – Do you believe in individual responsibility? Do you think Trump should locate and compensate the people sickened at his campaign events?

    Individual responsibility? Do you think those people who went to the campaign events are responsible for themselves?

    What do you think individual responsibility means? Because it sounds like you think it means individuals get to hold someone else responsible for their own decisions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  227. Can’t do your work for you, Paul.

    It’s a simple question, BuDuh. I don’t know why you’re copping out by evading the question.

    As for Rittenhouse, the law is clear that open carry is allowed for adults, defined as 18 or over. Perhaps the judge could explain his throwing that one out. Without that charge, it’s likely there will be a full acquittal.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  228. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/15/2021 @ 7:59 am

    As for Rittenhouse, the law is clear that open carry is allowed for adults, defined as 18 or over. Perhaps the judge could explain his throwing that one out. Without that charge, it’s likely there will be a full acquittal.

    This is only “clear” to people who haven’t read all of the applicable laws and get most of their analysis from dishonest media. Or to people who have a better understanding but are participating in the propaganda.

    frosty (f27e97)

  229. I admit IANAL. I took the open-carry provisions from a pro 2nd Amendment site, among others.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  230. you left out your mention as a failed Democrat in your history post. Why is that?

    Trump was a Democrat long after anyone here was.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  231. I think embracing authoritarianism and letting fear or emotion override your critical thinking is a bad idea. When it comes to covid we see a lot of excellent examples of that in comments here.

    It is a long precedent that states have vast powers in a pandemic. It is emotionalism that gets people to forswear a proven vaccine because they are pissed off about an election.

    It is rampant innumeracy that drives their whole argument (e.g. “vaccinated people spread the virus, not the unvaccinated sick people!” or “It’s better to have natural immunity instead of vaccine immunity” when anyone would realize that both is even better, and not in that order).

    It is utter selfishness that says “Ooooh. I’m too healthy to worry about the virus, so I won’t get the vaccine (because I don’t understand things mostly), and if I get sick I won’t get that sick.” Meanwhile five other people get the virus from them as they continue to work their hairdressing job and one dies. Not their problem.

    Not getting vaccinated is like drunk driving and there are laws against drunk driving. Or is that being “authoritarian”, too? I’ve heard all those excuses, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  232. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/15/2021 @ 8:42 am

    Not getting vaccinated is like drunk driving and there are laws against drunk driving. Or is that being “authoritarian”, too? I’ve heard all those excuses, too.

    This is a broken analogy. The better analogy would be between a drunk driver and a person who knows they are contagious and has close contact with people.

    So, just to summarize, after saying yes to authoritarianism, you spent time strawmaning a different issue, and you throw in some of the emotionalism I mentioned. You even took swipe at hairdressers which isn’t elitism at all.

    I’ve heard all those excuses, too.

    I know. This was part of the point. When it comes to COVID you’ve got all of the information you need.

    frosty (f27e97)

  233. Actually, I say yes to established state authority. I say NO to Biden’s federal overreach. It’s not about Covid and it’s not about what I want. It’s about what the structure of our government allows. I am not one of those who attempts to bend the structure to fit today’s argument. I’m often alone in that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  234. To be more clear: I view those who claim they don’t need to get vaccinated, wear masks, or avoid people when sick to be like drunk drivers. And their excuses for doing so are remarkably similar to those of repeat drunk drivers.

    “Rationalize” can be separated into “rational” and “lies.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  235. And what about those who are vaccinated and still spreading the virus? What about those who got a shot, but aren’t interested in never-ending boosters to live their life? What about those with complications? What about those who are kids and not at risk of anything?

    Where do they fall in your authoritarian regime?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  236. On Friday March 1, 2002 the cost of a single copy f the New York Times was 75 cents. Now it is $3.00 – four times as much.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  237. The problem with Kamala Harris is ta Joe Biden gave her things to do asked her to take the heat.

    There was no reason to expect her to do anything, and there isn’t anything we know that she is doing (like convening meetings) It’s all nonsense.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  238. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/15/2021 @ 9:44 am

    To be more clear: I view those who claim they don’t need to get vaccinated, wear masks, or avoid people when sick to be like drunk drivers. And their excuses for doing so are remarkably similar to those of repeat drunk drivers. I’m moving the goalposts.

    FIFY.

    The difference between drunk drivers and the COVID vaccine is I can’t protect myself from drunk drivers. I can mitigate the risk to a small degree but I have very little control or protection from that. In the case of COVID I can mitigate the risk almost completely through my own decisions.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/15/2021 @ 9:40 am

    Actually, I say yes to established state authority.

    We’re well outside established state authority. There is no history of mandating vaccinations for employment.

    frosty (f27e97)

  239. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/15/2021 @ 8:42 am

    Meanwhile five other people get the virus from them as they continue to work their hairdressing job and one dies. Not their problem.

    I don’t think it’s that way. If someone isn’t very sick, they probably can’t transmit a serious case (to most people) That could actually save lives as it amounts to a vaccination. If not the person(s) infected might later get exposed to a heavy dose of virus.

    The problem is, though, that, while they’re not likely to directly send someone to the hos[ital or cause their death, they could start a train of transmission, each successive iteration worse than the other, culminating in a very serious case or worse. And they’ll likely never know.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  240. https://www.wisn.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-underage-possession-dangerous-weapon-charge-against-dismissed/38240525#

    here was no dispute that Rittenhouse was 17 years old when he carried an AR-style semi-automatic rifle on the streets of Kenosha in August 2020 and used it to kill two men and wound a third.

    But the defense argued Wisconsin’s statute had an exception that could be read to clear Rittenhouse.

    That exception involved whether a rifle or shotgun was short-barreled.

    After prosecutors conceded in court Monday that Rittenhouse’s rifle was not short-barreled, Judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed the charge.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  241. Schroeder said he had “big problems” with the Wisconsin statute.

    The exception was probably made to allow hunting under supervision and because a long barreled gun can’t very well be concealed.

    The assumption would be that if it was displayed in a threatening manner, other statutes would kick in and, if it continued, police would likely intervene.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  242. Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/15/2021 @ 10:30 am

    The exception was probably made to allow hunting under supervision and because a long barreled gun can’t very well be concealed.

    Given the other laws on the book it was probably made to allow hunting without supervision.

    frosty (f27e97)

  243. “We’re well outside established state authority. There is no history of mandating vaccinations for employment.”

    A very quick search brought up this summary article, from Omaha, Nebraska:

    School is one of the first places most of us have to show proof of vaccination. By adulthood, we might rest on our laurels, assuming everyone around us has those childhood shots. But here in Omaha, certain jobs require proof of certain jabs.
    . . .
    At CHI and Methodist, staff are required to have the vaccines recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for health care workers. When exemptions are granted, employees must take special precautions to keep patients safe.

    No, no, “frosty”, you don’t have to thank me for this help — though that would be polite. But I think you should make a small contribution to this site.

    (One thing those my age will understand: Nowadays proof of vaccine status is less likely to be required for adults than it was years ago, because almost everyone in grade school in the 1970s or later got shots in school.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  244. 249. frosty (f27e97) — 11/15/2021 @ 10:50 am

    Given the other laws on the book it was probably made to allow hunting without supervision.

    No, because he’s not allowed to own a gun until the day before his 18th birthday. (According to Social Security, and therefore probably other law, you reach a certain age on the day before your birthday. But it’s probably not well known)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  245. Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/15/2021 @ 11:06 am

    No, because he’s not allowed to own a gun until the day before his 18th birthday. (According to Social Security, and therefore probably other law, you reach a certain age on the day before your birthday. But it’s probably not well known)

    Not allowed to purchase a gun and not allowed to be in possession of a gun aren’t the same thing.

    frosty (f27e97)

  246. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/15/2021 @ 10:53 am

    Wow! That is an impressive gotcha there.

    You found an example and you think that establishes a history of requiring vaccines in the context of this discussion? You think your example lays a foundation for something as broad as the OSHA or federal mandate that’s being applied to federal contractors? You think this debate about the mandates is just made up and ignores the long history of this?

    I’m glad we’ve got people like you who feel empowered to make individual medical decisions for other people. We’re all so very fortunate.

    The school vaccines you mention have always had exceptions and loopholes. More to this point, they aren’t required for employment.

    Nowadays proof of vaccine status is less likely to be required for adults than it was years ago, because almost everyone in grade school in the 1970s or later got shots in school.

    How old do you have to be that this was required for employment? I’m not young and I’ve never had to show proof of vaccine status for a job. Was there a time when all adults were required to show proof of vaccine status as a requirement of employment?

    frosty (f27e97)

  247. I think all adults born after 1957 were required to show proof of immunity for various diseases, including chicken pox.- which could be an antibody test, to work as a nurse in a hospital. I don’t think anybody tried to go back years.

    I had too help someone find a page on the Internet that showed that the chicken pox vaccine did not confer a certain level of immunity. She had taken it more than once.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  248. I suppose we’re all nurses now

    frosty (f27e97)

  249. Bi election site that’s been around since before the year 2000.

    http://www.thegreenpapers.com

    Give s primary dates ad delegates and also covers Congressional elections and Governors

    Election calendar 2021:

    http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G21

    2916: http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G16

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  250. On Fridaym January 26, 2001, the Wall Street Journal cost 75 cents on the newsstand (same price as the New York Times on the same date probably) It just recently raised its price from $4.00 to $5.00.

    I can;t speak about the subscription price – that probably varies depending on the deal somebody originally got. But that’s gone up 11% for me recently.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  251. Wyoming GOP votes to no longer recognize Liz Cheney

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/wyoming-gop-votes-to-no-longer-recognize-liz-cheney/

    “This just isn’t your day, is it.” – James Bond, 007 [Sean Connery] ‘From Russia With Love’ 1963

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  252. By Thursday, December 13, 2001, the cost of a single copy of the Wall Streeet Journal was $1.00 (the New York Times at the time was probably 75 cents)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  253. frosty (f27e97) — 11/15/2021 @ 11:31 am

    Not allowed to purchase a gun and not allowed to be in possession of a gun aren’t the same thing.

    Welll, if you can’t purchase it, you probably can’t also own it as the result of a gift, but you can borrow it or use it with permission at least if you are allowed to carry it. Or handle it, and even a 7-year old can handle it while supervised or else how is somebody going to know on his 18th birthday how to handle it?

    There was possibly a (federal) straw buyer rule violated, except that the straw buyer, or his father, kept possession of the gun all the time, so that would make it legal.

    The judge said the law was very difficult for him to understand and he has a law degree.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  254. frosty (f27e97) — 11/15/2021 @ 12:10 pm

    Was there a time when all adults were required to show proof of vaccine status as a requirement of employment?

    It’s not all adults, but all adults workng for an employer who e,ploys at least 99 other people (full time ad part time count equally, as do any people employed outside or at home although those working exclusively at home are not cvered by this rule – the 100 employee rule was made on the assumption that companies that hire 1100 people can deal with the administrative complications easily) And instead of being vaccinated they could take a test once a week, but no amount of immunity that comes from a source other than a vaccine counts, and a vaccine counts even if it didn’t work because of immune deficiencies or because they took it just the day before, or because the vaccine spoiled or because it wasn’t injected properly.

    A federal court stayed the rule, which it called questionable, constitutionally and statutorily (a stretch) and some other way too.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  255. Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/16/2021 @ 8:10 am

    Owning a gun and possessing a gun are also not the same thing.

    There is no straw buyer rule violation if he didn’t buy the gun.

    For example, when Baldwin picked up the gun he used to kill someone with he didn’t buy it or own it even though he was clearly unsupervised. When a 17yo leaves the house with a gun his parent bought he didn’t buy it, he doesn’t own it, and his parent wasn’t a straw buyer.

    frosty (f27e97)

  256. If anyone has a half hour and wants to learn more about the ivermectin studies, specifically the meta compilation by ivnmeta, this is an excellent breakdown and worth a full read. The bottom line:

    • Ivermectin doesn’t reduce mortality in COVID a significant amount (let’s say d > 0.3) in the absence of comorbid parasites: 85-90% confidence

    •Parasitic worms are a significant confounder in some ivermectin studies, such that they made them get a positive result even when honest and methodologically sound: 50% confidence

    • Fraud and data processing errors are of similar magnitude to p-hacking and methodological problems in explaining bad studies (95% confidence interval for fraud: between >1% and 5% as important as methodological problems; 95% confidence interval for data processing errors: between 5% and 100% as important)

    • Probably “Trust Science” is not the right way to reach proponents of pseudoscientific medicine: ???% confidence

    The “comorbid parasites” matter is relevant as he discusses below.

    As several doctors and researchers have pointed out (h/t especially Avi Bitterman and David Boulware), the most impressive studies come from places that are teeming with worms. Mahmud from Bangladesh, Ravakirti from East India, Lopez-Medina from Colombia, etc.
    […]
    The good ivermectin trials in areas with low Strongyloides prevalence, like Vallejos in Argentina, are mostly negative. The good ivermectin trials in areas with high Strongyloides prevalence, like Mahmud in Bangladesh, are mostly positive.

    Worms can’t explain the viral positivity outcomes (ie PCR), but Dr. Bitterman suggests that once you remove low quality trials and worm-related results, the rest looks like simple publication bias.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  257. The idea that getting rid of unknown worms could result in better outcomes for people infected with Covid when they are given ivermectin sounds interesting. It;s true enough that periods of high levels of blood sugar conflict woth protein synthesis and therefore with fighting infection

    But what ivermectin was supposed to be best at was prevention. Are any of these studies analyzed about preventon.

    p=hacking by the way was what Blasey Ford did *she consulted on papers and found correlations.*

    None of the Senators on the Senate Judiciary Cmmittee understood that that was what she was saying was his expertise,

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  258. Explanation as to why the Russians helped Steele:

    I don’t think it was that they were just trying to interfere in a random way and to build mistrust.

    Probably Steele kept his client secret from everyone including Danchenko , and the Russians thought he was working for MI5 or British conservatives.

    They wanted to divide the USA from the UK. They had no idea it would become public or go to the Democrats.Sp creating anti-Trump disinformation didn’t conflict with trying to help Trump get elected.

    I think the Dems realized it was nonsense. They had hired Steele in order to find out *why* Putin was backing Trump. That he wanted Trump to win was blatantly obvious.

    But they only got told lies.

    The real reason for Putin trying to help Trump was that Putin had hopes of planting top level spies in a future Trump Administration, notably Mike Flynn (whom Obama had retired because he thought he was probably recruited by the GRU while he was head of the DIA (you could look this up) Obama went easy on Flynn and wasn’t sure but he later could not explain to Trump why he so strongly didn’t want him to be National Security Adviser. Putin also had his eyes set on Paul Manafort and Rick Gates.

    A second reason was that Putin thought Hillary had principles and was against him and that Victoria Nuland, who had been instrumental in the Maiden Revolution in Ukraine in Feb 2014, was one of Hillary’s women.

    Putin and the Clintons had a falling out in 2014, but Hillary has tried to maintain it was in 2011 om connection with the Parliamentary elections in Russia.

    The Russiana also did not want to ignore Steele because he had been fed disinformation ten years and more before and they didn’t want to undermine his confidence and that of MI6 that he had good sources and it was easy for him to find it Russian secrets, Otherwise they might re-evaluate decade old intelligence.

    Charles Dolan of course had much better ties to the Kremlin than to the Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  259. We should all admire Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Hayes for their principled stand. They believe — correctly, in my opinion — that the Tucker Carlson special is filled with lies. And so, rather than be associated with these lies, even directly, they have given up their Fox jobs (and some money).

    Those who want the truth from journalists will admire them; those who want pleasing lies will attack them with more lies.

    Even if you think they are wrong on the facts, you should admire their principled courage.

    (Given the tough job market for journalists, their stand is even more admirable. And, as far as I know, neither man has a large trust fund, unlike Carlson.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  260. These NFL rules strike me as a sensible compromise:

    The NFL and NFL Players Association have agreed to COVID-19 protocols for the 2021 regular season, which include weekly testing for fully vaccinated players and staff members, NFL Network’s Tom Pelissero reported on Monday.

    The weekly testing for vaccinated players and staff is an increase from every two weeks. Players with vulnerable cohabitants can elect to undergo daily testing.

    Unvaccinated and partially vaccinated players will continue to test every day, including off days, prior to entering the club facility and may not go inside the facility or interact with each other while awaiting test results.

    (Emphasis added.)

    Given the close contact inevitable in football, these rules strike me as just strong enough to prevent most infections — infections that could lead to serious losses of money to both teams and individual players.

    So far, the rules seem to have been successful in encouraging vaccinations — but then pro football players are unlikely to be afraid of needles, unlike some folks.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  261. #264 Paul – Thanks for that lucid explanation.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)


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