Patterico's Pontifications

11/3/2021

The Left Analyzes What Happened Last Night

Filed under: General — JVW @ 12:12 pm



[guest post by JVW]

It ranges from gross outrage to sad resignation. Here’s a sampling of what left-wing opinion-makers have to say this morning:

Over at Mother Jones, Isabela Dias writes a pretty straightforward recap of the race which would not have been out of place at the New York Times or Washington Post. Naturally she can’t help but repeat the tired canard that critical race theory isn’t being taught in Virginia schools, which is the latest highly-misleading but oft-repeated talking point of the progressive education establishment. This race angle is hammered home in a piece by Nathalie Baptiste which was published yesterday afternoon before results were in but already at the point when the chattering classes seemed to realize that Mr. McAuliffe was in for a rough evening. It posits that the Glenn Youngkin campaign was about nothing more than racial resentments, which is exactly what you would expect the woke left to conclude.

Harold Myerson, an avowed socialist and editor at The American Prospect, is of the school that Dems lost badly because they didn’t deliver enough pork from Washington to inspire independents (though I still haven’t seen polls which suggest that independents support the Dems’ tax-and-spend orgy). He repeats the mantra that critical race theory is not taught in Virginia schools, good little leftist that he is (it should also be noted that this month’s cover story in The American Prospect is about the nasty right-wing is blocking CRT because we don’t want to be held accountable for America’s past sins). He does credit the governor-elect for his deftness in keeping Donald Trump at arms-length while managing to hold on to the former President’s support, and he suggests that Mr. Youngkin, who was nominated in a caucus dominated by party insiders, would likely have lost to a far more Trumpian candidate had Virginia Republicans held a primary election. Mostly, Mr. Myerson places the blame for the Democrats’ poor showing last night at the feet of Joe Biden and Congressional Democrats (but pretty much exclusively those who have trepidation about the party’s massive spending agenda), and asserts that bold spending initiatives are how the donkey party needs to mount their comeback.

Over at The Atlantic, Zachary Carter takes one of the more nuanced and least partisan positions on what happened in Virginia. He acknowledges that education was indeed the Achilles’ Heel for Terry McAuliffe and other Virginia Democrats yesterday, and that it wasn’t just mean ol’ Republican parents who have soured on the education establishment, so heavily supported by Democrat politicians [as usual, bolded emphasis added by me]:

The most important data point for the election is public-school enrollment in Northern Virginia, and it’s very bad for Democrats. Fairfax County, the largest county in the state, has lost more than 10,000 students since the start of the pandemic—a decline of about 5 percent. In neighboring Arlington County, the dropoff is 3.9 percent; in Loudoun County, it’s 3.4 percent. Those may look like modest declines, but they should not be happening in prosperous counties where the population is growing quickly. The public schools in all three counties have a reputation for quality. People move there for the schools. (Some of the influx into those areas can be chalked up to white flight from D.C. and other suburbs—particularly in Loudoun—but a lot of it can’t. Northern Virginia is a pretty diverse place.)

[. . .]

Conservative political activists want these issues to prove that “wokeness” is unpopular and that an anti-woke backlash will bring Republican salvation not only in Virginia, but across the country. The truth is a bit more complex. Polling suggests that there is something of an anti-woke backlash taking place, but the right has settled on K–12 schools as the epicenter of its narrative for a reason: A lot of suburban parents lost faith in Virginia’s public schools over the past year, and as a result, they’re more open to conservative narratives about problems in public schools.

I grew up in Northern Virginia and attended Northern Virginia public schools and was back in Northern Virginia from March of 2020 until September 2021. Anecdotally, I’ve never heard so much anti-teacher sentiment in the region as I did during the pandemic. Every parent I talked to had at least one horror story, and I mostly talked to affluent, upwardly mobile, pro-public-goods liberals.

The good news for Democrats is that education is only narrowly beating out the economy as the top issue for Virginia voters, and that McAuliffe came close, despite running a clueless and lethargic campaign. [. . .]

But I wouldn’t put a lot of money on a turnaround. Barring a wild new development over the next year, Democrats should expect to lose Virginia’s Second, Seventh and Tenth Congressional Districts a year from now, and be ready for a dogfight for the Fourth district. These losses alone would be enough to eliminate the current Democratic majority in the House of Representatives, absent offsetting victories elsewhere.

I think Mr. Carter has it about right. Lefty Twitter last night was full of angry progressives declaring that the American people are irredeemably stupid and can’t be trusted to vote in favor of their own interests, and that it is the Manchin-Sinema wing of the party that is wrecking things, clearly not the Sanders-Jaypal wing. One can only hope that national Democrats continue to believe that the loudest and dumbest voices on Twitter are the actual center of the party, at least through the next two national election cycles.

– JVW

89 Responses to “The Left Analyzes What Happened Last Night”

  1. How would you like to be Joe Manchin or Krysten Sinema today? Some difficult choices await you.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  2. Barring a wild new development over the next year, Democrats should expect to lose Virginia’s Second, Seventh and Tenth Congressional Districts a year from now, and be ready for a dogfight for the Fourth district.

    How can he say that?

    The boundaries, and maybe even the approximate shapes, of the districts are going to change by then.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  3. I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: Virginians did not take kindly to being told to STFU about school curriculum, not when parents had to pretty much teach their kids for over a year and a half. And yes, we all talked about the Zoom and Google Meet and BBCU horror stories. “Asynchronous learning” is teacher code for “have your kids do this worksheet because I have to help my kids.”

    That said, I hope the Democrats listen to the lefties in the media who say everyone who voted Republican are racists. More of this please. This will lead to more Republican victories…

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  4. Two observations: George W. Bush won the governorship of Texas twice, in part by promising to improve the state’s schools. (And, judging by the NAEP scores when he left office, he kept that promise.) His presidential win in 2000 was also in part a consequence of a promise to improve the nation’s schools.

    (In that emphasis on education, he was following the example of both Reagan — “A Nation at Risk” and his father — “the education president”.)

    Second, in many states the teacher’s unions are an essential part of the Democratic coalition. For a Democrat to break with them is at least as difficult as a Republican breaking with the police unions.

    (You can compare states performance on the NAEP here. Note that California, for all its wealth, does not do as well educating its children as Texas does.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  5. COVID-19: Quebec drops vaccination mandate for health-care workers

    https://globalnews.ca/news/8346947/quebec-drops-vaccine-mandate-among-health-care-workers/

    Progress happening all over.

    Obudman (d2f86d)

  6. Jennifer Rubin – Sept 5, 2021:

    “For showing Democrats how to turn every race into a referendum on Republican radicalism, we can say well done, Mr. McAuliffe.”

    Well done indeed.

    Obudman (d2f86d)

  7. The left is happy a clinton corporate stooge bites the dust. Aoc is ready to take over house democrat leadership in 2022. You think corporate establishment democrats beholden to big business like the clintons are leftists. They are centrists. You don’t understand that everyone more liberal then you is a socialist.

    asset (08ca8e)

  8. David Plouffe, a former Obama-Biden campaign manager, advised Democrats up for election in 2022 to “go on the offense” on critical race theory (CRT) in light of the Virginia gubernatorial election.

    Progressives have repeatedly claimed that Virginia schools never taught the curriculum, despite the state Department of Education website listing the phrase multiple times. Plouffe argued that McAuliffe and other Democrats should use a different strategy and “go on the offense” and defend critical race teachings.

    “Critical race theory was a lie, and I think we have to go on the offense. Terry McAuliffe tried to do this, say it’s a lie, they know it’s a lie. But are you scared for your kids to learn about slavery or lynching or housing discrimination? Are we raising kids to be that weak?” Plouffe said.

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/david-plouffe-democrats-go-offense-critical-race-theory

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. The boundaries, and maybe even the approximate shapes, of the districts are going to change by then.

    Since the redistricting commission deadlocked over partisan plans, it looks like the state supreme court will have to draw the map.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/virginia/

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. #5 That helps explain why Quebec has a disproportionate share of Canada’s COVID cases and deaths. (About 20 percent of the population, about 30 percent of the deaths.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  11. I note that here in NM, the redistriciting commission is likely to pick a plan which maximizes wasted GOP votes. There’s a name for that, but I’m forgetting what it is.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. @10: They will only accept vaccines created in France.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. “Harold Myerson, an avowed socialist and editor at The American Prospect, is of the school that Dems lost badly because they didn’t deliver enough pork from Washington to inspire independents (though I still haven’t seen polls which suggest that independents support the Dems’ tax-and-spend orgy). ”

    Two items:

    Trump’s tax cuts are going to cost $2.3 trillion by 2028, vs the current Build Back Better proposed cost of $1.75 trillion.

    Here’s a poll from a couple months ago. Overall support 66-24.

    Davethulhu (3b4bb2)

  14. AP calls NJ for Murphy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. 12, 10, the Quebecois are also blamed for the hefty cost of national health care on account of their rich diet, as such they may also have higher rates of comorbidities compared to the remaining provinces.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  16. You don’t understand that everyone more liberal then you is a socialist.

    At last, asset, you have written something entirely sensible. Thank you.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  17. Here’s a poll from a couple months ago. Overall support 66-24.

    Uh-huh. Here is how the question was phrased on the survey:

    As you may know, President Biden and Democrats have proposed new legislation to provide paid family and medical leave, establish a universal Pre-K program, expand Medicare coverage for seniors to include dental, vision, and hearing coverage, lower health care costs by allowing Medicare to negotiate lower drug prices, provide tax breaks for clean energy, and expand the Child Tax Credit for most families with children. Do you support or oppose this legislation?

    They might has well have polled six-year-olds to see if they wanted Santa to come this year.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  18. “Critical race theory was a lie, and I think we have to go on the offense. Terry McAuliffe tried to do this, say it’s a lie, they know it’s a lie. But are you scared for your kids to learn about slavery or lynching or housing discrimination? Are we raising kids to be that weak?” Plouffe said.

    Gotta hand it to the Dems. They have the nerve to look everyone in the eye and say, “We don’t teach CRT in the schools; it’s a lie to claim that we do,” and then in the very next breath say, “Without CRT, students won’t ever learn about slavery or broken compacts with Indian tribes or the interment of Japanese during WWII or the Civil Rights Movement.”

    JVW (ee64e4)

  19. By the way, Davethulhu, did you happen to note exactly who conducted the survey?

    Navigator is a project led by pollsters from Global Strategy Group and GBAO along with an advisory committee, including: Andrea Purse, progressive strategist; Arkadi Gerney, The Hub Project; Joel Payne, The Hub Project; Christina Reynolds, EMILY’s List; Delvone Michael, Working Families; Felicia Wong, Roosevelt Institute; Mike Podhorzer, AFL-CIO; Jesse Ferguson, progressive strategist; Navin Nayak, Center for American Progress Action Fund; Stephanie Valencia, EquisLabs; and Melanie Newman, Planned Parenthood Action Fund.

    Out of curiosity, do you think this survey was designed to capture the legitimate views of American voters, or do you think maybe — just maybe — it was designed to give activists some talking points to spread to a gullible media?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  20. Actual editorial in the NYTimes today:

    Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/opinion/music-pop-culture-justice.html

    Obudman (d2f86d)

  21. Actual editorial in the NYTimes today:

    That’s not in today’s paper. It is in tomorrow’s.

    And it is also not an editorial. It is what used to be called an op-ed piece (the NYT started the use of that term, but decided a few months ago to no longer call such pieces op-eds. For several reasons, including that more people read them it online.)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  22. Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?

    Let me guess: they’re dead set against “Sweet Home Alabama,” “Brown Sugar,” “You Shook Me All Night Long,” “Black Betty,” and some others among those songs that they deem “problematic.”

    JVW (ee64e4)

  23. JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 7:08 pm

    They will have to pry my cassette with “Black Betty” on it from my cold dead hands.

    frosty (f27e97)

  24. The Stones have already nixed “Brown Sugar” from their performances, and I imagine “Under My Thumb” is six feet underfoot.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  25. @16 if you support social security and medicare both socialist programs you are a democratic socialist. Do you know who invented the social welfare state and why?

    asset (b8a063)

  26. “Democratic socialist” is an oxymoron. The guy who made the term popular, Bernie Sanders, is just a moron.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  27. BTW, don’t no one touch my Stones and ACDC.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  28. BTW, don’t no one touch my Stones and ACDC.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:14 pm

    Amen to that, Paul. The “Back in Black” album came out when I was attending high school in a small, remote, Utah town. It spread quickly in my social circle. Amazing music get amazing dissemination.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  29. I hope Radegunda doesn’t read my last comment, or I might become persona non grata.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  30. norcal, I had only two tapes that I could use on my roommate’s stereo, and it was 2nd semester, freshman year. I played Pat Benatar’s first album and Highway to Hell every day, and I never tired of either (I can’t say the same for my roommate, but he took it well). They both rocked, and I’ve been hooked on ACDC every since. I still lament that Bon Scott bit it before the band really took off.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  31. Do you know who invented the social welfare state and why?

    Was it Bismarck, or are you one of those weirdos who attribute it to Jesus?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  32. To be clear, my music collection at the time was vinyl, and neither of us had a turntable, thus only a couple of cassettes to my name.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  33. I still lament that Bon Scott bit it before the band really took off.

    They seemed to do okay with Brian Johnson.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  34. Yep, they made do with Mr. Johnson.
    If you haven’t seen Rick Beato’s YouTubes (a lot of them are really good, like this on Back in Black), he has a one on who’s the better singer. The band caught lightning in a bottle with Scott’s successor.
    If you look around, there’s a version of Back In Black that was sung by Bon Scott, and it’s really good.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  35. I’m watching it right now, Paul. Fascinating. Thank you.

    By the way, I blew my friend’s mind when I told him that “Back in Black” was the #2 best-selling album of all time. He didn’t believe me (he’s listened to much more music than I have; hence the skepticism), and had to look it up. It’s a small point of pride for me.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  36. “Agree yesterday’s election was about the Democrat’s handling of schools during COVID but many many scientists tried to tell them that, pointing to so many other countries where children’s learning needs and safety could be simultaneously managed.” – Monica Gandhi MD

    also

    “San Francisco becomes the first jurisdiction in the world to mandate EUA vaccination for all 5-11 year olds.

    In ~8 weeks, all children ages 5+ will be required to carry proof of full vaccination in order to dine in a restaurant with family, take swimming lessons, and more.”

    Obudman (d2f86d)

  37. Obudman @20. “Actual editorial in the NYTimes today:”

    SF @21: That’s not in today’s paper. It is in tomorrow’s.

    It is not in tomorrow’s paper (which is today, Thursday)

    It will probably be in the Sunday Review (formerly “Week in Review”) section.

    Many things that appear Sunday – or at least the contents of the New York Times Magazine – are posted online on the previous Wednesday. The printed copy of the New York Times Magazine gets delivered with the Saturday paper, but is sold on the newsstands as part of the Sunday paper. Half the extra sections of Sunday are delivered on Saturday. The Sunday Review section, which includes editorials, columns, letters, and more opinion pieces than every day, is included with the Sunday edition of the paper.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  38. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:13 pm

    “Democratic socialist” is an oxymoron. The guy who made the term popular, Bernie Sanders…

    “Democratic socialist” has a long history and I think was made more populat by something called the “Democratic socialists of America” to which AOC belongs.

    I think it was originally coined to distinguish it fro Comunist dictatorships – they always called themselves “socialist” countries.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  39. Sammy,

    Op-ed is shorthand for Opinion-Editorial. How is it not an editorial?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  40. Op-ed mamns Opposite the Editorial (page)

    A big part of the point of it is, when the New York Times instituted it, is that it might disagree with the editorial page but it very soon came to mean just anything and was a place regular columnists appeared. (One of them, Willliam Safire, was selected because he was a conservative and his column ran Mondays and Thursdays, besides his “On Language” column in the New York Times Magazine, which continued even after his column ended with 4 last columns that ran on the same day.

    He continued with end of the year multiple choice quiz about next year even after that.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  41. Sammy, the DSA are a whole bundle of oxymorons. Democracy and socialism are mutually exclusive concepts.
    What Bernie and his Bros really want is the Norway welfare state transplanted onto US soil, and he’s stated as such. That he and an American communist organization mislabel it “democratic socialism” don’t mean it’s true, because that terminology is as valid as the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea being a democratic republic.

    Paul Montagu (1888f5)

  42. Traditionally, “socialism” meant nationalizing large parts of the economy. This short bit from the Wikipedia Tony Blair biography explains:

    Under Blair, the party used the phrase “New Labour” to distance itself from previous Labour politics and the traditional idea of socialism. Despite opposition from Labour’s left-wing, he abolished Clause IV, the party’s formal commitment to the nationalisation of the economy, weakened trade union influence in the party, and committed to the free market and the European Union.

    So, after that change, the Labour Party was no longer formally a socialist party, though there were and are still socialists in the Party.

    Parts of the US economy are socialist by that traditional definition, the Bonneville Power Administration, the Tennessee Valley Authority, Seattle City Light, and so on.

    When a politician adds “democratic” to “socialist”, they are saying they want to achieve that nationalization through elections and laws, not revolution. (I have never been able to shake my suspicion that, for Bernie Sanders, the socialist goal is more important than the democratic means.)

    When Blair made that change he did not give up on what are commonly called “social welfare”, insurance programs such as — in our country — Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the rest. In fact, he increased spending on such programs. People with Blair’s mix of views are often called “social democrats”.

    At this point, I should stop and say that — although I think most academics would accept these rough definitions, with, no doubt, some quibbles — people all over the world use these terms in wildly different ways and, far too often, just for name calling. (As “fascist” is so often these days.)

    (Just to confuse things further, there are the Christian Democrats:

    In practice, Christian democracy is often considered centre-right on cultural, social and moral issues, but centre-left “with respect to economic and labor issues, civil rights, and foreign policy” as well as the environment.[7][nb 3] Christian democrats support a social market economy.

    Christian democratic parties dominated Western Europe in the decades after World War II, and are important in much of Latin America.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  43. Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?

    But vulgar and misogynistic rap songs are OK.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. “San Francisco becomes the first jurisdiction….”

    That’s federalism. Local people making local decisions. If people in San Fran object, they fire their representatives by winning elections….challenge laws in court if they have standing…or they move. You may view the law as totalitarian…but that’s our system.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  45. Jim, a good friend of mine has a 20-something son-in-law who is involved in the American version of the Christian Democrats, but they definitely take a page from Merkel’s party, and it’s a really small party.

    Paul Montagu (1888f5)

  46. “That’s federalism. Local people making local decisions.”

    so tolerating the poopstreets is a decision made by the people who actually live locally there and not just a decision by the corporate conglomerates there to wash their hands of paying anybody any money that doesn’t end up in their pockets at the end of the day?

    “If people in San Fran object, they fire their representatives by winning elections.”

    IF YOU OBJECT TO GETTING PAID IN THE COMPANY TOWN SCRIP, MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD AT THE COMPANY TOWN BOARD MEETING

    “challenge laws in court if they have standing…or they move. You may view the law as totalitarian…but that’s our system.”

    The process and the personnel are owned top to bottom by the corporate oligarch class there, who can besmirch the records and make unemployable anyone they want.

    San Fran sweeps (f88a6c)

  47. The process and the personnel are owned top to bottom by the corporate oligarch class there, who can besmirch the records and make unemployable anyone they want.

    San Fran sweeps (f88a6c) — 11/4/2021 @ 9:00 am

    Then move.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  48. 40. Paul Montagu (1888f5) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:18 am

    Sammy, the DSA are a whole bundle of oxymorons. Democracy and socialism are mutually exclusive concepts.

    I think they are actually Trotskyites, or a lineal descendant of that group. Democracy and socialism are orthogonal concepts I think, but elections are a very weak kind of control over what they do.

    What Bernie and his Bros really want is the Norway welfare state transplanted onto US soil, and he’s stated as such. That he and an American communist organization mislabel it “democratic socialism” don’t mean it’s true, because that terminology is as valid as the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea being a democratic republic.

    His words are to try to show continuity with something longstanding, and you can’t tell what he wants from his words.

    In Laos, in 1975, the people who took over called it a “People’s Democratic Dictatorshop”

    Fortunately for the people living there, there is a lot of corruption. Since the famine of the 1990s there’s even some corruption in North Korea too. In some places, corruption is the best hope people
    have. It makes the tyranny somewhat inefficient.

    I remember a story. In 1977, Libya was called the Libyan Socialist People’s Arab Republic. One day Qaddafi announced that he was going to change one word because it was used by dictatorships. Fidel Castro, who had recently changed his title from Premier to President, following the example of Leonid Brezhnev, rushed over and paid a visit in person. The upshot was that Quaddafi announced that the word was “republic” and he set up a whole system and called it a Jamahariyah, which was later translated as “Public”

    President, as an important office, originated in the United Sates and was later used by every ruler in Latin America who didn’t want to be called king. It’s now spread everywhere.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  49. Paul – I hadn’t even known we had such a party, until I linked to that Christian Democrat article. Well, it’s big country.

    Sammy – Points to you for using “orthogonal” correctly. (And I agree with you.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  50. https://technofog.substack.com/p/the-igor-danchenko-indictment

    Maybe the bogus Russia, Russia, Russia fiasco will get a write up? Everyone who fell for it should be extremely pissed.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  51. Ouch:

    Chuck Ross
    @ChuckRossDC
    · 3h
    Fiona Hill introduced Danchenko to Chris Steele as well as to this PR executive

    Sean Davis
    @seanmdav
    That’s the same Fiona Hill who was part of the Ukraine collusion coup against Trump in 2020.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1456305710833274881

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  52. Washington Post agrees with “Ouch”:

    Glenn Kessler
    @GlennKesslerWP
    There’s an old saying in journalism: You’re only as good as your sources. Based on this stunning indictment, Christopher Steele’s sources were really bad.

    https://twitter.com/GlennKesslerWP/status/1456334687681531908

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  53. A wonderful flashback from 2018 from WaPo:

    Glenn Kessler
    @GlennKesslerWP
    Analysis | Republicans’ Steele dossier conspiracy theory was dealt a big blow this weekend

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GlennKesslerWP/status/948275239800238082

    Terrible archived article at the link. LOL.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  54. @50 there was trump russia collusion after all

    JF (e1156d)

  55. @52 and kessler swallowed it whole

    what a POS

    JF (e1156d)

  56. BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:12 pm

    Maybe the bogus Russia, Russia, Russia fiasco will get a write up?

    Durham has anew indictment.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/04/durham-probe-analyst-tied-to-christopher-steele-trump-russia-dossier-arrested.html

    An analyst who contributed research to a dossier that detailed alleged ties between former President Donald Trump and Russia during the 2016 election was arrested.
    Igor Danchenko, the analyst, was charged in a grand jury indictment with five counts of making false statements to the FBI about the so-called Steele dossier during interviews with agents in 2017….

    ….The indictment charges that Danchenko lied when he told FBI agents he had never communicated with a public relations executive who was active in Democratic politics about allegations in Steele’s reports, when in fact Danchenko had sourced at least one of those allegations to the executive.

    Danchenko also is accused of falsely telling agents that he received an anonymous phone call in July 2016 from a person he believed to be the then-president of the Russian-American Chamber of Commerce about information that later was described by Steele as a “conspiracy of cooperation” between Trump’s campaign and Russian officials.

    “The information purportedly conveyed by the anonymous caller included the allegation that there were communications ongoing between the Trump campaign and Russian officials and that the caller had indicated the Kremlin might be of help in getting Trump elected,” Durham’s office said in a press release.

    The indictment says that Danchenko “never received such a phone call or such information” from that person and that he never arranged to meet that person in New York, as he has claimed to FBI agents.

    The indictment charges that Danchenko’s lies had a major impact on the FBI’s investigation of the Trump campaign.

    It notes that the FBI’s applications for warrants related to Page heavily relied on Steele’s reports to Fusion GPS, which were based on information Danchenko had collected.

    The FBI “ultimately was not able to confirm or corroborate most of their substantive allegations,” the indictment says.

    Some of Danchenko’s alleged lies “deprived FBI agents and analysts of probative information” that would have helped them vet the reliability of the reports they received, the indictment says.

    ….In September, Durham obtained an indictment against then-Perkins Coie law firm partner Michael Sussmann for allegedly lying to the FBI when he offered a tip in 2016 about the possible secret electronic channel between Trump’s company and a Russian bank. Sussmann has denied the allegation.

    In January, a former FBI lawyer, Kevin Clinesmith, was sentenced to probation for having falsified a claim that was used to maintain surveillance of Page.

    The FBVI, I think, knew the information they were getting was doubtful and politically sensitive, and avoided spying on anyone still connected to the campaign. But the FBI was getting a lot of pressure from Harry Reid to open some investigation into Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  57. Techno Fog
    @Techno_Fog
    ·
    3h
    One of the other Danchenko/Steele Russian “sources” –

    Was expecting to be rewarded w/ a job in the Hillary Clinton State Department.

    This is worse than we imagined.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1456309241917198340

    Image at the above link.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  58. Also, the inspector general examined the way the FBI handles FISA warrants in general. Out of a sample of 25, not one was handled correctly. (so it wasn;t politically biased)

    From a Wall Street Journal editorial:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-non-compliant-fbi-inspector-general-michael-horowitz-report-department-of-justice-fisa-surveillance-abuse-11633472138

    ..he latest report from Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz on the FBI’s other surveillance abuses is more evidence of the need to overhaul the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

    Mr. Horowitz’s 2019 report found the FBI had gulled the FISA court into letting it spy on former Trump aide Carter Page by presenting false information. The scandal inspired the Horowitz team to conduct a broader audit of FBI compliance, and the results are damning.

    The FBI must abide by what are known as Woods Procedures that include a file supporting every factual assertion in a warrant application. As the IG notes, surveillance warrants are among the Justice Department’s “most intrusive investigative authorities” and must be “scrupulously accurate.”

    The IG’s preliminary look last year into a sample of 29 wiretap applications said the FBI couldn’t locate Woods files for four applications, and the IG found errors in the remaining 25. As last week’s full report explains, the FBI and Justice have since acknowledged the 29 applications contained a total of 209 errors. These range from typographical (38) and date (42) errors, to unsupported facts (17), misidentified sources of information (15), and deviations from source documents (93).

    The IG also found 209 examples in the 29 applications of the FBI failing to provide “adequate documentation to support factual assertions.” In all “there were over 400 instances of non-compliance with the Woods Procedures.”

    Most alarming are the four errors that DOJ and the FBI admit were “material”—serious enough to have potentially changed the FISA court’s determination of “probable cause” to issue a warrant. The errors related to three applications in which the FBI omitted important or relevant information about targets, or provided outdated or unverified facts.

    In response to the IG’s preliminary findings last year, the FBI reviewed more than 7,000 FISA applications from January 2015 to March 2020, and the IG reports that for 183 of them “the required Woods File was missing, destroyed, or incomplete.” This is supposed to be America’s premier law-enforcement body.

    The IG criticizes an FBI culture that believes it is above the rules, and he devotes an entire section to spanking its leadership for its reaction to the 2020 preliminary findings. While FBI director Christopher Wray instituted some reforms, the agency minimized the findings with statements that “appeared to display a tolerance for error.”

    No one has taken responsibility—including Mr. Wray, on whose watch many of these mistakes happened. He has proposed more reforms to the very (Woods) reforms instituted 20 years ago to improve FBI behavior. Sure…

    The Wall Street Journal proposes just abolishing the FISa court so that the FBI can’t pass the buck for an unwarranted warrant.. Then make the people who approve surveillance accountable, including possible jail time. But ordinary search warrants need approval froma judge!

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  59. The “Ukraine collusion coup”? What is that?
    I’m not sure what the “fiasco” was with “Russia, Russia, Russia”. It was well established that Putin launched an unprecedented cyber and propaganda attack on the United States. There was evidence that Putin people and Trump people conspired to help Trump win, but did not have insufficient evidence to prosecute. Mueller delivered 34 indictments and 7 convictions, and he laid out a strong case that Trump obstructed justice.
    As for Steele, it’s good to know the work he and his people did and what Russian sources they used. It just reinforces that the dossier was a crap piece of work and was mostly a political document, not actual oppo research.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  60. Based on this stunning indictment, Christopher Steele’s sources were really bad.

    The question is, did he believe they were good – and did some of them really Russian government disinformation. I gave my idea before why Putin might want to mislead Steele with negative disinformation about Trump (he might have been thinking Steele he was working for the UK, and also needed Steele to believe his sources 10 years before were good and he needed to explain why he was supporting Trump, which he was, but of course never took Trump into his confidence.)

    Lev Parnass, Giuliani’s informant was convicted of using a Russian’s money to make campaign contributions, but the prosecutors cut out everything from a superseding indictment about firing the ambassador, let alone accusing Joe Biden of firing a prosecutor to protect his son (by taking advantage of Biden’s own lie about firing the prosecutor in which he DID NOT SAY that he fired him to stop an investigation.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  61. (so it wasn;t politically biased)

    I don’t see anything that concludes that in the quote you provided. For all we know every other botched application was directed at a political group. Unless there is more at the link?

    If nothing else, political persecution was much easier with the lack of discipline at the FBI. I would ask whether or not that lack of discipline was a bug or a feature as they could always fall back on “lazy” when they get caught.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  62. The “Ukraine collusion coup”? What is that?
    I’m not sure what the “fiasco” was with “Russia, Russia, Russia”.

    The links will help with that. I won’t.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  63. @59: “There was evidence that Putin people and Trump people conspired to help Trump win“

    complete BS conspiracy theory

    JF (e1156d)

  64. I don’t see anything that concludes that in the quote you provided.

    This is what IG Horowitz stated in his report

    We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open the four individual investigations.

    He used similar language about opening Crossfire Hurricane and other aspects.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  65. Good to know, Paul.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  66. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:37 pm

    The “Ukraine collusion coup”? What is that?

    I don’t know. that seems to be a term some people are using for the first impeachment investigation. An (attempted) coup based on an accusastion of collusion with Russia with regard to the Ukraine?

    I’m not sure what the “fiasco” was with “Russia, Russia, Russia”. It was well established that Putin launched an unprecedented cyber and propaganda attack on the United States. There was evidence that Putin people and Trump people conspired to help Trump win,

    the last was precisely what did not happen – or was done without telling Trump.
    I think Putin wanted to plant spies in the American government starting with Mike Flynn and the biggest question I have is how did Flynn get a job as Donald’s Trump’s national security expert.

    Obama believed that Flynn might have been recruited as a Russian spy when he was head of the DEA and quietly forced his retirement – then he couldn’t explain to Trump after the 2016 election why he didn’t want Flynn to be National Security Adviser. The FBI arranged to get him fired by proving he lied to Mike Pence..

    Manafort gave some polling info to Russia maybe in the hopes that Putin would not drop his support of Trump. He may also have led them to believe he could become a spy, but had no intention of actually being one. He couldn’t take the pay cut.

    Mike Flynn was not so careful.

    but did not have insufficient evidence to prosecute. Mueller delivered 34 indictments and 7 convictions, and he laid out a strong case that Trump obstructed justice.

    Stretched reasoning.

    As for Steele, it’s good to know the work he and his people did and what Russian sources they used. It just reinforces that the dossier was a crap piece of work and was mostly a political document, not actual oppo research

    There wasn’t any genuine oppo research linking Trump to Russia beyond the fact that Putin was obviously supporting him.

    I think Putin did that because he thought Hillary was responsible for the Maiden Revolution in Ukraine in Feb 2014 because he thought Victoria Nuland was one of Hillary’s woman (but actually all people at the State Dept. close to Hillary had left with her) and because he thought he could plant spies at the top level of the American government. (starting with Mike Flynn)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  67. complete BS conspiracy theory

    False, JF. Per the Mueller report.

    Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

    “Did not establish” has specific meaning. Quote:

    The report describes actions and events that the Special Counsel’s Office found to be supported by the evidence collected in our investigation. In some instances, the report points out the absence of evidence or conflicts in the evidence about a particular fact or event. In other instances, when substantial, credible evidence enabled the Office to reach a conclusion with confidence, the report states that the investigation established that certain actions or events occurred. A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.

    Emphasis mine. If there were no evidence of the conspiracy, Mueller would have stated so.

    The links will help with that. I won’t.

    They don’t help, BuDuh, and I’ll take your answer as a lazy reponse.
    Again, what’s this “Ukraine collusion coup”?
    I agree that the Steele reports are most certainly a “fiasco”, the FBI and Special Counsel investigations not.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  68. We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open the four individual investigations

    But they did find that the FBI was not following proper procedures all the time.

    And I do think the FBI felt political pressure, especially from Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, but did not entirely succumb to them because the FBI was aware it had to deal with two major political parties and it wasn’t going to bet the farm that the Democrats would win.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  69. https://technofog.substack.com/p/the-igor-danchenko-indictment

    Maybe the bogus Russia, Russia, Russia fiasco will get a write up? Everyone who fell for it should be extremely pissed.

    BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:12 pm

    Depends on what you mean by “it”. We know that Russia illegally interfered with the 2016 presidential election to harm the Clinton campaign and help Trump.

    Did you mean something else with ‘it’?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  70. Since we’re off topic…
    Jenna Ryan, one of the 1/6 rioters:

    Definitely not going to jail. Sorry I have blonde hair white skin a great job a great future and I’m not going to jail. Sorry to rain on your hater parade. I did nothing wrong.

    US District Judge Cooper: “You’re going to jail,” or something like that.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  71. I think “it” are the specific lies about Trump and Russia although some people are trying to pretend that Russia did not try to help elect Trump. (but it was uncoordinated)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  72. @67 yeah, Paul Montagu, that same investigation “did not establish” that you colluded with the russkies either

    hmm…. looks mighty suspicious, just saying

    not one piece of evidence in that whole wall of text comment of yours

    so shocking

    cling tight to your conspiracy theory teddy bear

    JF (e1156d)

  73. @70 good thing your man clinesmith had the right profile, paul

    JF (e1156d)

  74. @67, Paul don’t forget the senate report that had the same findings, plus additional information about Trump’s business intentions with Russia.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  75. not one piece of evidence in that whole wall of text comment of yours

    Noted, your failure to comprehend “did not establish”, JF, or read the Mueller report, because the evidence is there. The SIC report was only more confirmation and evidence, summarized here.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  76. As for Clinesmith, the IG busted his a$$, appropriately so.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  77. I’ll take your answer as a lazy reponse.

    Take it however you want. It won’t change the fact that I found the answers at the links I provided. You are on your own.

    PS, more insults of my responses, or a lengthy discussion of what you consider insults, doesn’t matter to me either.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  78. The Biden idols on this site fell for hookers lifting a le…. Brilliant. Who gave you the diploma hanging on those mahogany paneled walls? Einstein?

    mg (8cbc69)

  79. When you guys are over your discussion, will one of you tell me where the goalposts are?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. @76 clinesmith got zero jail time

    and you think that’s awesome

    tell me he did less damage to our democracy than piddling jenna ryan

    let’s see how ridiculous you want to get

    JF (e1156d)

  81. If special counsel Durham was going to reveal what is possible, how would he handle the reality that bobby mueller’s and andy weissmann’s existence was in place to hide it. And he is only going after conspirators outside da gubmint. As time runs out.

    mg (8cbc69)

  82. @70, She seems likely to re-offend to me. I guess the judge agreed with her.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  83. It won’t change the fact that I found the answers at the links I provided…

    Then what are these “answers”? I didn’t see ’em.
    Again, what “collusion”? What “coup”?
    All you did was parrot the hyperpartisan Sean Davis.
    It’s not a conspiracy that an expert in Russian affairs like Hill would run across a Russian analyst
    like Danchenko.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  84. and you think that’s awesome

    Mindreading is an intellectually lazy and dishonest practice, JF. If it were me in charge, Clinesmith would be in jail and disbarred for life.
    Jenna Ryan was involved in an insurrection on 1/6, along with almost 700 other criminally charged MAGA zealots, urged on by a con man who refused to take “you lost” as an answer, disrupting a Constitutional proceeding and the peaceful transfer of power.
    I’m not going to play the game of who’s the bigger fascist, they’re all bad.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  85. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:36 pm

    😢

    BuDuh (ae8de7)

  86. From the WA Examiner, which is not on Trump’s Enemy of the People list:

    “I have no knowledge whatsoever of how he developed that dossier, none,” Hill said. “The first time I saw that dossier was the day before it was published in BuzzFeed when a colleague, like it seemed to be about half of Washington, D.C., had it, and showed me a copy of it, and I was shocked … That was when I expressed the misgivings and concern that he could have been played.” Hill told House lawmakers in November 2019 it was Brookings President Strobe Talbott who showed her the dossier.

    Ms. Hill testified to this under oath. To be clear, Danchenko is the one was busted by the feds for lying, not Hill.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  87. Jerry Christmas Christmas treeSanta Claus
    @JerryDunleavy
    The Steele Dossier was a Fusion GPS / Clinton campaign / Dem operative dirty trick, likely with Russian disinfo sprinkled in, & the FBI used it to obtain secret surveillance while members of Congress & the media used it to spread a narrative that poisoned U.S. politics for years.

    Conversation

    Jerry Christmas Christmas treeSanta Claus
    @JerryDunleavy
    When someone tries to downplay the Steele Dossier, remember that Comey & McCabe pushed to include it in the 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment on Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, and that it ended up being summarized in a classified annex as a compromise.

    https://twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1456452129506402311

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  88. @87, Buduh, the part you’re omitting is that the Steele dossier was far from the totality of the evidence. It was not why we were concerned about Russian interference. It was not what started the concerns about Trump and Russia. it was not the predicate for investigating the Trump campaign. It was not the reason a special council was created.

    Those were the hack of the DNC and calculated release of the data by Wikileaks, Trumps business ties, odd statements, and the close relationship many on his campaign had with Russia, Carter Page’s statements to a foreign official, and starting he fired Comey to stop the investigation respectively.

    The dossier was part of the story and it was deeply flawed. But the rest of the actions hold up fine without it.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  89. Good to know, Time.

    BuDuh (4a7846)


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