The Left Analyzes What Happened Last Night
[guest post by JVW]
It ranges from gross outrage to sad resignation. Here’s a sampling of what left-wing opinion-makers have to say this morning:
Over at Mother Jones, Isabela Dias writes a pretty straightforward recap of the race which would not have been out of place at the New York Times or Washington Post. Naturally she can’t help but repeat the tired canard that critical race theory isn’t being taught in Virginia schools, which is the latest highly-misleading but oft-repeated talking point of the progressive education establishment. This race angle is hammered home in a piece by Nathalie Baptiste which was published yesterday afternoon before results were in but already at the point when the chattering classes seemed to realize that Mr. McAuliffe was in for a rough evening. It posits that the Glenn Youngkin campaign was about nothing more than racial resentments, which is exactly what you would expect the woke left to conclude.
Harold Myerson, an avowed socialist and editor at The American Prospect, is of the school that Dems lost badly because they didn’t deliver enough pork from Washington to inspire independents (though I still haven’t seen polls which suggest that independents support the Dems’ tax-and-spend orgy). He repeats the mantra that critical race theory is not taught in Virginia schools, good little leftist that he is (it should also be noted that this month’s cover story in The American Prospect is about the nasty right-wing is blocking CRT because we don’t want to be held accountable for America’s past sins). He does credit the governor-elect for his deftness in keeping Donald Trump at arms-length while managing to hold on to the former President’s support, and he suggests that Mr. Youngkin, who was nominated in a caucus dominated by party insiders, would likely have lost to a far more Trumpian candidate had Virginia Republicans held a primary election. Mostly, Mr. Myerson places the blame for the Democrats’ poor showing last night at the feet of Joe Biden and Congressional Democrats (but pretty much exclusively those who have trepidation about the party’s massive spending agenda), and asserts that bold spending initiatives are how the donkey party needs to mount their comeback.
Over at The Atlantic, Zachary Carter takes one of the more nuanced and least partisan positions on what happened in Virginia. He acknowledges that education was indeed the Achilles’ Heel for Terry McAuliffe and other Virginia Democrats yesterday, and that it wasn’t just mean ol’ Republican parents who have soured on the education establishment, so heavily supported by Democrat politicians [as usual, bolded emphasis added by me]:
The most important data point for the election is public-school enrollment in Northern Virginia, and it’s very bad for Democrats. Fairfax County, the largest county in the state, has lost more than 10,000 students since the start of the pandemic—a decline of about 5 percent. In neighboring Arlington County, the dropoff is 3.9 percent; in Loudoun County, it’s 3.4 percent. Those may look like modest declines, but they should not be happening in prosperous counties where the population is growing quickly. The public schools in all three counties have a reputation for quality. People move there for the schools. (Some of the influx into those areas can be chalked up to white flight from D.C. and other suburbs—particularly in Loudoun—but a lot of it can’t. Northern Virginia is a pretty diverse place.)
[. . .]
Conservative political activists want these issues to prove that “wokeness” is unpopular and that an anti-woke backlash will bring Republican salvation not only in Virginia, but across the country. The truth is a bit more complex. Polling suggests that there is something of an anti-woke backlash taking place, but the right has settled on K–12 schools as the epicenter of its narrative for a reason: A lot of suburban parents lost faith in Virginia’s public schools over the past year, and as a result, they’re more open to conservative narratives about problems in public schools.
I grew up in Northern Virginia and attended Northern Virginia public schools and was back in Northern Virginia from March of 2020 until September 2021. Anecdotally, I’ve never heard so much anti-teacher sentiment in the region as I did during the pandemic. Every parent I talked to had at least one horror story, and I mostly talked to affluent, upwardly mobile, pro-public-goods liberals.
The good news for Democrats is that education is only narrowly beating out the economy as the top issue for Virginia voters, and that McAuliffe came close, despite running a clueless and lethargic campaign. [. . .]
But I wouldn’t put a lot of money on a turnaround. Barring a wild new development over the next year, Democrats should expect to lose Virginia’s Second, Seventh and Tenth Congressional Districts a year from now, and be ready for a dogfight for the Fourth district. These losses alone would be enough to eliminate the current Democratic majority in the House of Representatives, absent offsetting victories elsewhere.
I think Mr. Carter has it about right. Lefty Twitter last night was full of angry progressives declaring that the American people are irredeemably stupid and can’t be trusted to vote in favor of their own interests, and that it is the Manchin-Sinema wing of the party that is wrecking things, clearly not the Sanders-Jaypal wing. One can only hope that national Democrats continue to believe that the loudest and dumbest voices on Twitter are the actual center of the party, at least through the next two national election cycles.
How would you like to be Joe Manchin or Krysten Sinema today? Some difficult choices await you.JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 12:26 pm
How can he say that?
The boundaries, and maybe even the approximate shapes, of the districts are going to change by then.Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/3/2021 @ 12:46 pm
I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: Virginians did not take kindly to being told to STFU about school curriculum, not when parents had to pretty much teach their kids for over a year and a half. And yes, we all talked about the Zoom and Google Meet and BBCU horror stories. “Asynchronous learning” is teacher code for “have your kids do this worksheet because I have to help my kids.”
That said, I hope the Democrats listen to the lefties in the media who say everyone who voted Republican are racists. More of this please. This will lead to more Republican victories…Hoi Polloi (ade50d) — 11/3/2021 @ 1:16 pm
Two observations: George W. Bush won the governorship of Texas twice, in part by promising to improve the state’s schools. (And, judging by the NAEP scores when he left office, he kept that promise.) His presidential win in 2000 was also in part a consequence of a promise to improve the nation’s schools.
(In that emphasis on education, he was following the example of both Reagan — “A Nation at Risk” and his father — “the education president”.)
Second, in many states the teacher’s unions are an essential part of the Democratic coalition. For a Democrat to break with them is at least as difficult as a Republican breaking with the police unions.
(You can compare states performance on the NAEP here. Note that California, for all its wealth, does not do as well educating its children as Texas does.)Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/3/2021 @ 1:38 pm
COVID-19: Quebec drops vaccination mandate for health-care workers
Progress happening all over.Obudman (d2f86d) — 11/3/2021 @ 1:51 pm
Jennifer Rubin – Sept 5, 2021:
“For showing Democrats how to turn every race into a referendum on Republican radicalism, we can say well done, Mr. McAuliffe.”
Well done indeed.Obudman (d2f86d) — 11/3/2021 @ 2:11 pm
The left is happy a clinton corporate stooge bites the dust. Aoc is ready to take over house democrat leadership in 2022. You think corporate establishment democrats beholden to big business like the clintons are leftists. They are centrists. You don’t understand that everyone more liberal then you is a socialist.asset (08ca8e) — 11/3/2021 @ 2:20 pm
https://www.foxnews.com/media/david-plouffe-democrats-go-offense-critical-race-theoryKevin M (ab1c11) — 11/3/2021 @ 2:21 pm
The boundaries, and maybe even the approximate shapes, of the districts are going to change by then.
Since the redistricting commission deadlocked over partisan plans, it looks like the state supreme court will have to draw the map.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/virginia/Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/3/2021 @ 2:32 pm
#5 That helps explain why Quebec has a disproportionate share of Canada’s COVID cases and deaths. (About 20 percent of the population, about 30 percent of the deaths.)Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/3/2021 @ 2:35 pm
I note that here in NM, the redistriciting commission is likely to pick a plan which maximizes wasted GOP votes. There’s a name for that, but I’m forgetting what it is.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/3/2021 @ 2:39 pm
@10: They will only accept vaccines created in France.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/3/2021 @ 2:40 pm
“Harold Myerson, an avowed socialist and editor at The American Prospect, is of the school that Dems lost badly because they didn’t deliver enough pork from Washington to inspire independents (though I still haven’t seen polls which suggest that independents support the Dems’ tax-and-spend orgy). ”
Trump’s tax cuts are going to cost $2.3 trillion by 2028, vs the current Build Back Better proposed cost of $1.75 trillion.
Here’s a poll from a couple months ago. Overall support 66-24.Davethulhu (3b4bb2) — 11/3/2021 @ 3:49 pm
AP calls NJ for Murphy.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/3/2021 @ 3:58 pm
12, 10, the Quebecois are also blamed for the hefty cost of national health care on account of their rich diet, as such they may also have higher rates of comorbidities compared to the remaining provinces.urbanleftbehind (c073c9) — 11/3/2021 @ 3:59 pm
You don’t understand that everyone more liberal then you is a socialist.
At last, asset, you have written something entirely sensible. Thank you.JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 4:01 pm
Here’s a poll from a couple months ago. Overall support 66-24.
Uh-huh. Here is how the question was phrased on the survey:
They might has well have polled six-year-olds to see if they wanted Santa to come this year.JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 4:05 pm
“Critical race theory was a lie, and I think we have to go on the offense. Terry McAuliffe tried to do this, say it’s a lie, they know it’s a lie. But are you scared for your kids to learn about slavery or lynching or housing discrimination? Are we raising kids to be that weak?” Plouffe said.
Gotta hand it to the Dems. They have the nerve to look everyone in the eye and say, “We don’t teach CRT in the schools; it’s a lie to claim that we do,” and then in the very next breath say, “Without CRT, students won’t ever learn about slavery or broken compacts with Indian tribes or the interment of Japanese during WWII or the Civil Rights Movement.”JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 4:08 pm
By the way, Davethulhu, did you happen to note exactly who conducted the survey?
Out of curiosity, do you think this survey was designed to capture the legitimate views of American voters, or do you think maybe — just maybe — it was designed to give activists some talking points to spread to a gullible media?JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 4:12 pm
Actual editorial in the NYTimes today:
Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/opinion/music-pop-culture-justice.htmlObudman (d2f86d) — 11/3/2021 @ 6:13 pm
That’s not in today’s paper. It is in tomorrow’s.
And it is also not an editorial. It is what used to be called an op-ed piece (the NYT started the use of that term, but decided a few months ago to no longer call such pieces op-eds. For several reasons, including that more people read them it online.)Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/3/2021 @ 6:30 pm
Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?
Let me guess: they’re dead set against “Sweet Home Alabama,” “Brown Sugar,” “You Shook Me All Night Long,” “Black Betty,” and some others among those songs that they deem “problematic.”JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 7:08 pm
JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 7:08 pm
They will have to pry my cassette with “Black Betty” on it from my cold dead hands.frosty (f27e97) — 11/3/2021 @ 8:13 pm
The Stones have already nixed “Brown Sugar” from their performances, and I imagine “Under My Thumb” is six feet underfoot.norcal (b9a35f) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:08 pm
@16 if you support social security and medicare both socialist programs you are a democratic socialist. Do you know who invented the social welfare state and why?asset (b8a063) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:09 pm
“Democratic socialist” is an oxymoron. The guy who made the term popular, Bernie Sanders, is just a moron.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:13 pm
BTW, don’t no one touch my Stones and ACDC.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:14 pm
BTW, don’t no one touch my Stones and ACDC.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:14 pm
Amen to that, Paul. The “Back in Black” album came out when I was attending high school in a small, remote, Utah town. It spread quickly in my social circle. Amazing music get amazing dissemination.norcal (b9a35f) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:28 pm
I hope Radegunda doesn’t read my last comment, or I might become persona non grata.norcal (b9a35f) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:34 pm
norcal, I had only two tapes that I could use on my roommate’s stereo, and it was 2nd semester, freshman year. I played Pat Benatar’s first album and Highway to Hell every day, and I never tired of either (I can’t say the same for my roommate, but he took it well). They both rocked, and I’ve been hooked on ACDC every since. I still lament that Bon Scott bit it before the band really took off.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:52 pm
Do you know who invented the social welfare state and why?
Was it Bismarck, or are you one of those weirdos who attribute it to Jesus?JVW (ee64e4) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:54 pm
To be clear, my music collection at the time was vinyl, and neither of us had a turntable, thus only a couple of cassettes to my name.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 11:00 pm
I still lament that Bon Scott bit it before the band really took off.
They seemed to do okay with Brian Johnson.norcal (b9a35f) — 11/3/2021 @ 11:01 pm
Yep, they made do with Mr. Johnson.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:05 am
If you haven’t seen Rick Beato’s YouTubes (a lot of them are really good, like this on Back in Black), he has a one on who’s the better singer. The band caught lightning in a bottle with Scott’s successor.
If you look around, there’s a version of Back In Black that was sung by Bon Scott, and it’s really good.
I’m watching it right now, Paul. Fascinating. Thank you.
By the way, I blew my friend’s mind when I told him that “Back in Black” was the #2 best-selling album of all time. He didn’t believe me (he’s listened to much more music than I have; hence the skepticism), and had to look it up. It’s a small point of pride for me.norcal (b9a35f) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:24 am
“Agree yesterday’s election was about the Democrat’s handling of schools during COVID but many many scientists tried to tell them that, pointing to so many other countries where children’s learning needs and safety could be simultaneously managed.” – Monica Gandhi MD
“San Francisco becomes the first jurisdiction in the world to mandate EUA vaccination for all 5-11 year olds.
In ~8 weeks, all children ages 5+ will be required to carry proof of full vaccination in order to dine in a restaurant with family, take swimming lessons, and more.”Obudman (d2f86d) — 11/4/2021 @ 5:58 am
Obudman @20. “Actual editorial in the NYTimes today:”
SF @21: That’s not in today’s paper. It is in tomorrow’s.
It is not in tomorrow’s paper (which is today, Thursday)
It will probably be in the Sunday Review (formerly “Week in Review”) section.
Many things that appear Sunday – or at least the contents of the New York Times Magazine – are posted online on the previous Wednesday. The printed copy of the New York Times Magazine gets delivered with the Saturday paper, but is sold on the newsstands as part of the Sunday paper. Half the extra sections of Sunday are delivered on Saturday. The Sunday Review section, which includes editorials, columns, letters, and more opinion pieces than every day, is included with the Sunday edition of the paper.Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/4/2021 @ 6:25 am
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/3/2021 @ 10:13 pm
“Democratic socialist” has a long history and I think was made more populat by something called the “Democratic socialists of America” to which AOC belongs.
I think it was originally coined to distinguish it fro Comunist dictatorships – they always called themselves “socialist” countries.Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/4/2021 @ 6:39 am
Op-ed is shorthand for Opinion-Editorial. How is it not an editorial?NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/4/2021 @ 6:47 am
Op-ed mamns Opposite the Editorial (page)
A big part of the point of it is, when the New York Times instituted it, is that it might disagree with the editorial page but it very soon came to mean just anything and was a place regular columnists appeared. (One of them, Willliam Safire, was selected because he was a conservative and his column ran Mondays and Thursdays, besides his “On Language” column in the New York Times Magazine, which continued even after his column ended with 4 last columns that ran on the same day.
He continued with end of the year multiple choice quiz about next year even after that.Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/4/2021 @ 6:57 am
Sammy, the DSA are a whole bundle of oxymorons. Democracy and socialism are mutually exclusive concepts.Paul Montagu (1888f5) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:18 am
What Bernie and his Bros really want is the Norway welfare state transplanted onto US soil, and he’s stated as such. That he and an American communist organization mislabel it “democratic socialism” don’t mean it’s true, because that terminology is as valid as the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea being a democratic republic.
Traditionally, “socialism” meant nationalizing large parts of the economy. This short bit from the Wikipedia Tony Blair biography explains:
So, after that change, the Labour Party was no longer formally a socialist party, though there were and are still socialists in the Party.
Parts of the US economy are socialist by that traditional definition, the Bonneville Power Administration, the Tennessee Valley Authority, Seattle City Light, and so on.
When a politician adds “democratic” to “socialist”, they are saying they want to achieve that nationalization through elections and laws, not revolution. (I have never been able to shake my suspicion that, for Bernie Sanders, the socialist goal is more important than the democratic means.)
When Blair made that change he did not give up on what are commonly called “social welfare”, insurance programs such as — in our country — Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the rest. In fact, he increased spending on such programs. People with Blair’s mix of views are often called “social democrats”.
At this point, I should stop and say that — although I think most academics would accept these rough definitions, with, no doubt, some quibbles — people all over the world use these terms in wildly different ways and, far too often, just for name calling. (As “fascist” is so often these days.)
(Just to confuse things further, there are the Christian Democrats:
Christian democratic parties dominated Western Europe in the decades after World War II, and are important in much of Latin America.)Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:25 am
Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?
But vulgar and misogynistic rap songs are OK.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:43 am
“San Francisco becomes the first jurisdiction….”
That’s federalism. Local people making local decisions. If people in San Fran object, they fire their representatives by winning elections….challenge laws in court if they have standing…or they move. You may view the law as totalitarian…but that’s our system.AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:44 am
Jim, a good friend of mine has a 20-something son-in-law who is involved in the American version of the Christian Democrats, but they definitely take a page from Merkel’s party, and it’s a really small party.Paul Montagu (1888f5) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:58 am
“That’s federalism. Local people making local decisions.”
so tolerating the poopstreets is a decision made by the people who actually live locally there and not just a decision by the corporate conglomerates there to wash their hands of paying anybody any money that doesn’t end up in their pockets at the end of the day?
“If people in San Fran object, they fire their representatives by winning elections.”
IF YOU OBJECT TO GETTING PAID IN THE COMPANY TOWN SCRIP, MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD AT THE COMPANY TOWN BOARD MEETING
“challenge laws in court if they have standing…or they move. You may view the law as totalitarian…but that’s our system.”
The process and the personnel are owned top to bottom by the corporate oligarch class there, who can besmirch the records and make unemployable anyone they want.San Fran sweeps (f88a6c) — 11/4/2021 @ 9:00 am
Then move.Hoi Polloi (ade50d) — 11/4/2021 @ 9:22 am
40. Paul Montagu (1888f5) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:18 am
I think they are actually Trotskyites, or a lineal descendant of that group. Democracy and socialism are orthogonal concepts I think, but elections are a very weak kind of control over what they do.
His words are to try to show continuity with something longstanding, and you can’t tell what he wants from his words.
In Laos, in 1975, the people who took over called it a “People’s Democratic Dictatorshop”
Fortunately for the people living there, there is a lot of corruption. Since the famine of the 1990s there’s even some corruption in North Korea too. In some places, corruption is the best hope people
have. It makes the tyranny somewhat inefficient.
I remember a story. In 1977, Libya was called the Libyan Socialist People’s Arab Republic. One day Qaddafi announced that he was going to change one word because it was used by dictatorships. Fidel Castro, who had recently changed his title from Premier to President, following the example of Leonid Brezhnev, rushed over and paid a visit in person. The upshot was that Quaddafi announced that the word was “republic” and he set up a whole system and called it a Jamahariyah, which was later translated as “Public”
President, as an important office, originated in the United Sates and was later used by every ruler in Latin America who didn’t want to be called king. It’s now spread everywhere.Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/4/2021 @ 11:04 am
Paul – I hadn’t even known we had such a party, until I linked to that Christian Democrat article. Well, it’s big country.
Sammy – Points to you for using “orthogonal” correctly. (And I agree with you.)Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/4/2021 @ 11:38 am
Maybe the bogus Russia, Russia, Russia fiasco will get a write up? Everyone who fell for it should be extremely pissed.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:12 pm
Ouch:BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:37 pm
Washington Post agrees with “Ouch”:BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:42 pm
A wonderful flashback from 2018 from WaPo:
Terrible archived article at the link. LOL.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:47 pm
@50 there wasJF (e1156d) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:10 pm
trumprussia collusion after all
@52 and kessler swallowed it whole
what a POSJF (e1156d) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:19 pm
BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 12:12 pm
Durham has anew indictment.
The FBVI, I think, knew the information they were getting was doubtful and politically sensitive, and avoided spying on anyone still connected to the campaign. But the FBI was getting a lot of pressure from Harry Reid to open some investigation into Trump.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:26 pm
Image at the above link.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:33 pm
Also, the inspector general examined the way the FBI handles FISA warrants in general. Out of a sample of 25, not one was handled correctly. (so it wasn;t politically biased)
From a Wall Street Journal editorial:
The Wall Street Journal proposes just abolishing the FISa court so that the FBI can’t pass the buck for an unwarranted warrant.. Then make the people who approve surveillance accountable, including possible jail time. But ordinary search warrants need approval froma judge!Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:33 pm
The “Ukraine collusion coup”? What is that?Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:37 pm
I’m not sure what the “fiasco” was with “Russia, Russia, Russia”. It was well established that Putin launched an unprecedented cyber and propaganda attack on the United States. There was evidence that Putin people and Trump people conspired to help Trump win, but did not have insufficient evidence to prosecute. Mueller delivered 34 indictments and 7 convictions, and he laid out a strong case that Trump obstructed justice.
As for Steele, it’s good to know the work he and his people did and what Russian sources they used. It just reinforces that the dossier was a crap piece of work and was mostly a political document, not actual oppo research.
The question is, did he believe they were good – and did some of them really Russian government disinformation. I gave my idea before why Putin might want to mislead Steele with negative disinformation about Trump (he might have been thinking Steele he was working for the UK, and also needed Steele to believe his sources 10 years before were good and he needed to explain why he was supporting Trump, which he was, but of course never took Trump into his confidence.)
Lev Parnass, Giuliani’s informant was convicted of using a Russian’s money to make campaign contributions, but the prosecutors cut out everything from a superseding indictment about firing the ambassador, let alone accusing Joe Biden of firing a prosecutor to protect his son (by taking advantage of Biden’s own lie about firing the prosecutor in which he DID NOT SAY that he fired him to stop an investigation.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:41 pm
I don’t see anything that concludes that in the quote you provided. For all we know every other botched application was directed at a political group. Unless there is more at the link?
If nothing else, political persecution was much easier with the lack of discipline at the FBI. I would ask whether or not that lack of discipline was a bug or a feature as they could always fall back on “lazy” when they get caught.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:41 pm
The links will help with that. I won’t.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:42 pm
@59: “There was evidence that Putin people and Trump people conspired to help Trump win“
complete BS conspiracy theoryJF (e1156d) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:44 pm
This is what IG Horowitz stated in his report…
He used similar language about opening Crossfire Hurricane and other aspects.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:50 pm
Good to know, Paul.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:53 pm
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:37 pm
I don’t know. that seems to be a term some people are using for the first impeachment investigation. An (attempted) coup based on an accusastion of collusion with Russia with regard to the Ukraine?
the last was precisely what did not happen – or was done without telling Trump.
I think Putin wanted to plant spies in the American government starting with Mike Flynn and the biggest question I have is how did Flynn get a job as Donald’s Trump’s national security expert.
Obama believed that Flynn might have been recruited as a Russian spy when he was head of the DEA and quietly forced his retirement – then he couldn’t explain to Trump after the 2016 election why he didn’t want Flynn to be National Security Adviser. The FBI arranged to get him fired by proving he lied to Mike Pence..
Manafort gave some polling info to Russia maybe in the hopes that Putin would not drop his support of Trump. He may also have led them to believe he could become a spy, but had no intention of actually being one. He couldn’t take the pay cut.
Mike Flynn was not so careful.
There wasn’t any genuine oppo research linking Trump to Russia beyond the fact that Putin was obviously supporting him.
I think Putin did that because he thought Hillary was responsible for the Maiden Revolution in Ukraine in Feb 2014 because he thought Victoria Nuland was one of Hillary’s woman (but actually all people at the State Dept. close to Hillary had left with her) and because he thought he could plant spies at the top level of the American government. (starting with Mike Flynn)Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:55 pm
False, JF. Per the Mueller report.
“Did not establish” has specific meaning. Quote:
Emphasis mine. If there were no evidence of the conspiracy, Mueller would have stated so.
They don’t help, BuDuh, and I’ll take your answer as a lazy reponse.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:58 pm
Again, what’s this “Ukraine collusion coup”?
I agree that the Steele reports are most certainly a “fiasco”, the FBI and Special Counsel investigations not.
But they did find that the FBI was not following proper procedures all the time.
And I do think the FBI felt political pressure, especially from Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, but did not entirely succumb to them because the FBI was aware it had to deal with two major political parties and it wasn’t going to bet the farm that the Democrats would win.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 1:59 pm
Depends on what you mean by “it”. We know that Russia illegally interfered with the 2016 presidential election to harm the Clinton campaign and help Trump.
Did you mean something else with ‘it’?Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/4/2021 @ 2:00 pm
Since we’re off topic…
Jenna Ryan, one of the 1/6 rioters:
US District Judge Cooper: “You’re going to jail,” or something like that.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 2:07 pm
I think “it” are the specific lies about Trump and Russia although some people are trying to pretend that Russia did not try to help elect Trump. (but it was uncoordinated)Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 2:08 pm
@67 yeah, Paul Montagu, that same investigation “did not establish” that you colluded with the russkies either
hmm…. looks mighty suspicious, just saying
not one piece of evidence in that whole wall of text comment of yours
cling tight to your conspiracy theory teddy bearJF (e1156d) — 11/4/2021 @ 2:29 pm
@70 good thing your man clinesmith had the right profile, paulJF (e1156d) — 11/4/2021 @ 2:31 pm
@67, Paul don’t forget the senate report that had the same findings, plus additional information about Trump’s business intentions with Russia.Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/4/2021 @ 2:38 pm
Noted, your failure to comprehend “did not establish”, JF, or read the Mueller report, because the evidence is there. The SIC report was only more confirmation and evidence, summarized here.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 3:13 pm
As for Clinesmith, the IG busted his a$$, appropriately so.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 3:15 pm
Take it however you want. It won’t change the fact that I found the answers at the links I provided. You are on your own.
PS, more insults of my responses, or a lengthy discussion of what you consider insults, doesn’t matter to me either.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/4/2021 @ 3:20 pm
The Biden idols on this site fell for hookers lifting a le…. Brilliant. Who gave you the diploma hanging on those mahogany paneled walls? Einstein?mg (8cbc69) — 11/4/2021 @ 3:31 pm
When you guys are over your discussion, will one of you tell me where the goalposts are?Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2021 @ 3:39 pm
@76 clinesmith got zero jail time
and you think that’s awesome
tell me he did less damage to our democracy than piddling jenna ryan
let’s see how ridiculous you want to getJF (e1156d) — 11/4/2021 @ 3:46 pm
If special counsel Durham was going to reveal what is possible, how would he handle the reality that bobby mueller’s and andy weissmann’s existence was in place to hide it. And he is only going after conspirators outside da gubmint. As time runs out.mg (8cbc69) — 11/4/2021 @ 3:54 pm
@70, She seems likely to re-offend to me. I guess the judge agreed with her.Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/4/2021 @ 4:02 pm
Then what are these “answers”? I didn’t see ’em.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:36 pm
Again, what “collusion”? What “coup”?
All you did was parrot the hyperpartisan Sean Davis.
It’s not a conspiracy that an expert in Russian affairs like Hill would run across a Russian analyst
Mindreading is an intellectually lazy and dishonest practice, JF. If it were me in charge, Clinesmith would be in jail and disbarred for life.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:43 pm
Jenna Ryan was involved in an insurrection on 1/6, along with almost 700 other criminally charged MAGA zealots, urged on by a con man who refused to take “you lost” as an answer, disrupting a Constitutional proceeding and the peaceful transfer of power.
I’m not going to play the game of who’s the bigger fascist, they’re all bad.
😢BuDuh (ae8de7) — 11/4/2021 @ 8:47 pm
From the WA Examiner, which is not on Trump’s Enemy of the People list:
Ms. Hill testified to this under oath. To be clear, Danchenko is the one was busted by the feds for lying, not Hill.Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/4/2021 @ 9:45 pm
@87, Buduh, the part you’re omitting is that the Steele dossier was far from the totality of the evidence. It was not why we were concerned about Russian interference. It was not what started the concerns about Trump and Russia. it was not the predicate for investigating the Trump campaign. It was not the reason a special council was created.
Those were the hack of the DNC and calculated release of the data by Wikileaks, Trumps business ties, odd statements, and the close relationship many on his campaign had with Russia, Carter Page’s statements to a foreign official, and starting he fired Comey to stop the investigation respectively.
The dossier was part of the story and it was deeply flawed. But the rest of the actions hold up fine without it.Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/5/2021 @ 5:31 am
Good to know, Time.BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/5/2021 @ 5:34 am