Patterico's Pontifications

11/3/2021

Is There Hope for the Republican Party?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Republicans across the country are happy today. Heck, even I’m happy today. Glenn Youngkin is no portrait in courage; save that label for Liz Cheney. But he is no Donald Trump, and as often as Terry McAuliffe tried to hang that albatross around his neck, Youngkin slowly backed away and slipped the albatross off, like my dog slips out of his harness when he walks the wrong way around a pole and I try to pull him back by pulling him the “wrong” direction for a couple of feet. (That analogy might not work for everyone but I haven’t had my coffee yet so cut me some slack, Jack.)

Youngkin ran on a platform of lower taxes, parental control over schools, and supporting tough-on-crime measures. In other words, he was a traditional Republican. And he was normal! Sure, he was reluctant to denounce Trump and Trump’s Big Lie. I hold that against him. But I’m also realistic. He did not embrace the Big Lie. He said things that are basically sensible and true. He clearly is not a big fan of Trump, and avoided pitfalls like having Trump come campaign for him, or showing up at mega Trump rallies where the media could tie him to January 6. He said the right things when asked about January 6.

Ultimately, my litmus test for a Republican is: would you support the next coup attempt? If you’re a senator, will you vote to object to a fair election? If you’re a governor, will you send an alternate slate of electors to Congress just because your preferred candidate lost?

I don’t think Glenn Youngkin would. I bet Ron DeSantis would.

Of course the Trumpists are going to claim this as a victory and misread the results:

Another misreading, in my view, is the notion that Ron DeSantis is Glenn Youngkin but potentially on a national level. In other words, if Youngkin can win in Virginia, then his twin DeSantis can win in 2024. I think this is wrong, because I don’t see DeSantis and Youngkin as the same type of candidate, at all. DeSantis is a far more transparent example of the “hey let’s enact dumb policies to make Trumpy populists go rah rah” style of pandering populist politics. He has signed blatantly unconstitutional restrictions on free speech, platformed blatant misinformation on COVID on the same stage he occupied, prevented businesses such as cruise lines from requiring vaccinations from their customers, and (here’s one people forget) telling Laura Ingraham the Chauvin jury voted guilty because they were scared of a mob. DeSantis has never failed to pander to the lowest common denominator in the GOP and I find him revolting. Glenn Youngkin he ain’t.

So yeah, people are misreading the results. But to me, this result provides some hope that sanity can prevail in Republican politics.

Frankly, as long as Donald Trump manages to avoid the myocardial infarction that his lifestyle seems to cheerfully invite, my hopes for a sane political future will always be tempered by the dread of another coup attempt.

But at least there’s some hope today.

122 Responses to “Is There Hope for the Republican Party?”

  1. Here’s a takeaway.

    GOP does fine with some elements of Trumpism. The primary one is that he/she Fights!

    We don’t need Trump for the GOP to succeed. We need candidates willing to push back.

    That’s why I think DeSantis has legs nationally, as he routine tangos with his opponents.

    He’s not going to be right every time and yes, there will be times he’ll disappoint you… but if a candidate is willing to engage the insanity from the other party, his supporters will accept mistakes from time to time.

    whembly (7e0293)

  2. I think this is right:

    Jon Ward
    @jonward11

    “Youngkin’s savvy move was not to embrace Trump but also not to insult Trump or disavow him. He was not about being pro- or anti-Trump. Youngkin was about being not about Trump. Every time he was asked, he said he was just focused on Virginia. He refused to take the bait.”

    Because, its really not about Trump anymore.

    whembly (7e0293)

  3. I cant wait for Cheney to get thrown out of d.c.

    mg (8cbc69)

  4. More that I think is pertinent:
    https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/11/03/and-it-aint-white-supremacy-epic-thread-explains-point-by-point-how-youngkin-won-and-why-the-elite-are-starting-to-lose/

    tl;dr: in James Carville’s voice it’s the Middle Class stupid!

    whembly (7e0293)

  5. #3,

    Are you against politicians with integrity who are loyal to the Constitution and willing to pay any political price by pushing back with resolve against the lies of a former Republican president in order to save their party from irrelevancy? Or is it just women in general?

    Dana (174549)

  6. I might want to ask those questions privately, were I considering a large donation (HA!) but I would not insist that any candidate take a stand on wedge issues.

    Unless I was the Democrat opponent, of course. Were I that, I’d be upfront and say things like “I’ve denounced Donald Trump, why can’t you?”

    I assume that the Trumpian Trumpbots will identify themselves clearly enough.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  7. GOP does fine with some elements of Trumpism.

    I’m fine with a lot of what passes for Trumpism — Trump nailed some of the unintended consequences of the Reagan Revolution, particularly the pressures on the working class from open borders and offshoring.

    I’m just NOT OK with Trump himself. I don’t consider falsifying elections to be a policy plank, but rather an additional large flaw in a man with many large flaws. I, too, would not go along with a candidate who thought falsifying elections was a good idea (Cruz, I am looking at you) but simply being civil towards Donald Trump isn’t an issue with me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. I had no qualms voting for Glenn Youngkin, and am glad he and others swept the top 3 spots in VA. I was never convinced that he is a Trumpist to begin with. While I’m not a fan of him playing footsies with accepting electoral outcomes, I believe that he doesn’t buy into the Big Lie and other electoral conspiracies hatched up by the MAGAsphere. I think him throwing an occasional bone or two to the MAGA base were decisions out of practical considerations given that most of the base believes in the Big Lie. I did like Youngkin’s focus on and advocacy bedrock conservative policies in a pre-Trumpian manner.

    As for DeSantis, while he is certainly more Trumpy than Youngkin, I’m not convinced that he would go as far as to steal an election. Some of his policy proposals and actions as governor are for sure pretty bad, but I don’t think his populist pandering would lead to what Trump did post-election. That fact is that Trumpists will exist within GOP ranks for at a least a period of time, and a sane and decent conservative Republican will throw a bone or two to the populist MAGA base in mollify them. I see DeSantis doing that to a much greater degree than Youngkin. But I don’t think his populist pandering would extend beyond that.

    HCI (ed8ecd)

  9. Trump takes credit for Youngkin’s win, and of course, he’s more popular than Youngkin:

    This morning, Trump took credit for the win in VA, pushed back on the idea that Youngkin is more popular than him, and claimed that he won the state in 2020.

    Heh.

    Dana (174549)

  10. All politics is local

    Youngkin – a political rookie, took that to heart.

    McAuliffe – a political vet, forgot all about it.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  11. @5: I think that mg is OK with a military coup if that was what was necessary to save the country.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. Dana, while I think that Donald Trump should have STFU (again), his minions did go to the polls as he asked. If Trump had not asked them to vote, some would have stayed home and it would have tanked Youngkin. But getting Trump on board, but not too far on board, was Youngkin’s work, not Trump’s, and probably wasn’t easy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. @9 if youngkin lost, you’d blame trump

    JF (e1156d)

  14. I think you’re spot-on, Hoi Polloi. (McAuliffe didn’t so much forget about it. Instead, he believed that he’s already a legend (in his own eyes) and didn’t need to take local politics to heart. After all, he had *big* names come out and campaign for him.

    Dana (174549)

  15. Oh, I agree, #12.

    Dana (174549)

  16. BTW, I sincerely doubt that any top tier politician would do what Trump did. We have had some pretty creepy people seeking high office, but other than a few stuffed ballot boxes, I think their dishonesty has limits (generally at the point it is public).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. @9 if youngkin lost, you’d blame trump

    If Trump had tried to actively campaign, perhaps. At the end there were pro-Trump robocalls, but those might have been mobys.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. @9 if youngkin lost, you’d blame trump

    JF (e1156d) — 11/3/2021 @ 9:32 am

    If Trump had insisted on showing up and campaigning for Youngkin in person and then Youngkin lost, I would certainly say that Trump’s divisiveness played a big part in said loss. However, the ultimate responsibility would lie with Youngkin for wanting/allowing Trump to horn in. I think the question is: how many mod Dem and Independent votes did Youngkin capture?

    Dana (174549)

  19. once youngkin endorses trump or desantis or even haley for president the knives will be out, from the some people now claiming a piece of him

    JF (e1156d)

  20. If endorsing Haley is beyond the pale for Republicans, the party is already done.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. I think the question is: how many mod Dem and Independent votes did Youngkin capture?

    Because they are less likely to get all bent out of shape that Youngkin was endorsed 180 days ago by a coup plotting, vote rejecting Orange Scoundrel?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  22. I think the question is: how many mod Dem and Independent votes did Youngkin capture?

    They backed Biden in VA by 19 points, but Youngkin got the edge this time. That’s huge.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/election-day-results-2021-virginia-governor-youngkin/#post-update-0f10ef5f

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. Ciattarelli up by 122 votes at the last update.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. Dana, while I think that Donald Trump should have STFU (again), his minions did go to the polls as he asked. If Trump had not asked them to vote, some would have stayed home and it would have tanked Youngkin.

    Youngkin won because he captured a large portion of the NoVA electorate than Trump had. IOW, he captured centrist Biden voters. Trump and his minions deserve no credit for Youngkin’s win.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  25. @23 he needs to be up by 122,000 to survive the usual recount shenanigans

    JF (e1156d)

  26. Because they are less likely to get all bent out of shape that Youngkin was endorsed 180 days ago by a coup plotting, vote rejecting Orange Scoundrel?

    BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/3/2021 @ 9:41 am

    Or maybe, after over a year of being intimately involved with schooling their children at home thanks to COVID, they didn’t appreciate McAuliffe telling them to STFU when it comes to said schooling.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  27. Kevin: “I’m fine with a lot of what passes for Trumpism — Trump nailed some of the unintended consequences of the Reagan Revolution…”

    But Trump’s solutions were simplistic. Trump focused all attention on “his wall” instead of on more border agents, more immigration judges, technology, more aggressive policing of companies hiring illegals (if he is so against illegal immigration and populism, why didn’t he do this?), better tracking of temporary visitors, guest worker programs, etc. With trade, we scuttled TPP and China moved in….we tried a trade war with China and got nothing for it…while being forced to subsidize our farmers. We wasted time trying to ban Muslims by country…as if this makes much sense. Yes, Trump gave voice to middle class angst and cultural hot button issues….but in the end, what did it accomplish? Trump cynically mined Right Wing Talk Radio for sound bites and memes…and was willing to drop in the gutter to produce drama. The GOP needs to get back to being smart on issues…..not emotional ninnies.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  28. AJ, I think that you are hop[ing for a return to the status q

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. Ooops.

    AJ, I think that you are hoping for a return to the status quo ante, but neither party is headed there. The party system that lasted from 1980 to 2015 is as dead as Caesar.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. @7

    GOP does fine with some elements of Trumpism.

    I’m fine with a lot of what passes for Trumpism — Trump nailed some of the unintended consequences of the Reagan Revolution, particularly the pressures on the working class from open borders and offshoring.

    I’m just NOT OK with Trump himself. I don’t consider falsifying elections to be a policy plank, but rather an additional large flaw in a man with many large flaws. I, too, would not go along with a candidate who thought falsifying elections was a good idea (Cruz, I am looking at you) but simply being civil towards Donald Trump isn’t an issue with me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/3/2021 @ 9:26 am

    Exactly. I get that at the end of the day, if you simply don’t like the guy, I understand why you can vote for him.

    I don’t think I can either, unless we face another “Hillary Clinton” candidate from the other party (which thankfully, unlikely).

    What get’s my eyes twitching, is this idea that we must demand our candidates to forcefully repudiate Trump and his voters. These candidates should do what Younkins did… which is a Goldilock strategy: be just right.

    whembly (7e0293)

  31. So DeSantis is right and he represents his constituents. Wow. A politician that actually represents the people who elected him. Perish the thought.

    Congrats to Youngkin. I hope people are waking up. Our fascist in NJ will double down like the fool in California did. Florida is looking better and better.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  32. It wasn’t “middle-class angst” it was a 20% reduction in employment (90% to 70%) over their parent’s generation; and worse as far as marriage and families (80% to 50%). I watched my brother, a good-with-his-hands type, go from self-supporting as a carpenter to permanently unemployed as cheap Mexican labor swamped that market. He couldn’t feed his kids on $5/hour under the table. He tried Alaska, but that failed eventually, too. A big Trump supporter. Not everyone could participate in the “Knowledge Revolution.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. What get’s my eyes twitching, is this idea that we must demand our candidates to forcefully repudiate Trump and his voters.

    Exactly. Also the idea that the Democrat is virtuous because they will denounce Trump. Ask them if they’ll denounce the Squad, and you’ll see the same dodging.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. whembly (#30)–

    Trump is not an old soldier. He will not just fade away. GOP politicians will face an uncomfortable choice as 2024 approaches.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  35. Murphy now pulling away in NJ +15,000

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. On the local front in NJ there is some good news. 2 of the 3 School Board candidates who are fight back against the current indoctrination trend got elected. The 3rd who won was a big BoE backed candidate and was a shoe in. But getting 2 votes to 1 on the board is a start.

    For local offices, the right candidates all seem to have prevailed and will make Murphy’s life more difficult. Hopefully they can fight back against the mandates this wannabe king will try and put in place. Surrogate seems to be the only area where the leftist candidate won.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  37. GOP politicians will face an uncomfortable choice as 2024 approaches.

    If NY jails him, I wonder if that helps or hurts.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. Rob, I see that the GOP is picking up legislative seats. 3 or 4 in the state Senate.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  39. #37

    Fulton County could jail him first.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/11/donald-trump-brad-raffensperger-georgia-phone-call

    Just what Georgia needs — more Trump created turmoil.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  40. I see that the NJ lower house elects two members from each district, in what appears to be a “vote for two” election. Make it “vote for one” instead and watch things change.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. @39: The NY AG wants to be governor. I wonder what she could do to make headlines?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. Kevin,

    getting Sweeney out of NJ is a beautiful thing. And there are a number of pickups and several races that are neck and neck. The lawyers will probably decide several races.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  43. Meanwhile at Number One Observatory Circle, there’s a lot of dusting and tidying up and her best suits are off to the cleaners.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. I think you’re spot-on, Hoi Polloi. (McAuliffe didn’t so much forget about it. Instead, he believed that he’s already a legend (in his own eyes) and didn’t need to take local politics to heart. After all, he had *big* names come out and campaign for him.

    There is a lot of talk among Democrats today — you know, after the election is settled — that Terry McAuliffe didn’t really run on any particular platform, just a Clintonian sense that he is entitled to the office by being the most awesome guy around. Of course lefty opinion writers weren’t writing that about McAuliffe before the election (I guess, to be fair, they were busy pumping up that “Youngkin is a racist Trump clone” angle and didn’t have time to look into McAuliffe’s platform), but what’s a little bit of Monday Morning Quarterbacking among friends?

    And Donald Trump is like Barack Obama in that his endorsements make pretty much zero difference in a multi-party election. True, both guys can influence what happens in their respective party’s primaries, but I believe that both Trump and Obama repel one voter for every voter they bring to the polls in a multi-party election. The media needs to stop beclowning itself over the idea that either man is a kingmaker.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  45. Rob, I was looking at the slate voting for the Assembly. A piss-poor system. Some people get two reps, others get none. If people could only choose one rep the minority might get one too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. Youngkin is a racist Trump clone” angle

    Wasn’t that a little awkward in Governor KKK Blackface’s state.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. JVW,

    I agree that Trump doesn’t add, but his control over his minions is such that telling them to boycott will elect the Democrat.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. If the Virginia GOP had gone with the usual primary process, the nominee would probably have been Amanda Chase, a Trump loyalist. In that scenario, McAuliffe would have had a better chance of winning — particularly since being a Trump-loyalist now means being wiling to overturn an election for Trump, or to revamp election processes to give a big thumb on the scales to the GOP.

    Youngkin is a rather conventional Republican, and he persuaded a majority of voters that his policies are better, that he has no conspicuous worrying defects of character or temperament, and that he doesn’t aim to disrupt the governing institutions of his state.

    Who could have imagined that would be a winning formula?

    Radegunda (33a224)

  49. Wasn’t that a little awkward in Governor KKK Blackface’s state.

    Would be to anyone other than Democrats.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  50. The media needs to stop beclowning itself over the idea that either man is a kingmaker.

    The GOP also needs to stop acting as if Donald Trump were the king of the party. Candidates need to stop competing to show who loves Trump the most.

    One reason that Youngkin > DeSantis is that Youngkin didn’t do anything like that cringy ad where DeSantis is teaching his young children to be faithful worshipers at Trump’s altar.

    Problem is that too many primary voters still worship at that altar. The results in Virginia demonstrate that standard Republican policy positions might actually be more widely appealing than Trump.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  51. Way ahead thinking here, but…

    Youngkin sets up well for VP, for just about any of the possible R presidential contenders. One question that generates is if Youngkin ascends to VPOTUS, is Winsome Sears limited only to serving the remaining year of Youngkin’s vacated term as governor or can she run as an incumbent for reelection as Governor-VA based on not being in the office the entire previous 4 year term? If she doesn’t have Uncle Ruckus tendencies, it might be a carrot for black voters in VA to change wholesale from R to D and provide insurance against the rust belt and the SW necklace not getting the memo.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  52. Another takeaway from yesterday:

    It should calm the hysteria on the Trumpy and trad-con right about America being in such imminent peril of destruction that we can’t rely on the institutions anymore and we’ll need a civil war and a caesar to save the country.

    Voters rejected far-left candidates and proposals. And the Dems didn’t conspire to block GOP wins.

    But I can imagine how the super-Trumpy “thinkers” might explain how the “stolen election” theory is still airtight: by saying that the Deep State doesn’t hate Republicans; after all, many Republicans are Deep Staters (we’ve been told). It just has a totally unfounded animus against the Great Tribune of the People whose towering genius and bottomless well of patriotism were the best possible chance to MAGA, and a “contempt” for the “ordinary Americans” who identified with his crudeness and meanness.

    So the results of the elections might be spun as yet more evidence that the Corrupt Establishment was very very unfair to Donald.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  53. Juxtaposing a tweet from Joe Walsh with one from Ronna McDaniel does not constitute “relying on” Walsh for “analysis.”

    As it happens, McDaniel had already borne out Walsh’s prediction when he made it.

    Youngkin didn’t make “I love Trump” a selling point. He kept Trump at arm’s length, while not openly alienating his base. He won a lot of support from people who voted for Biden a year ago. IOW, a lot of people who couldn’t stand Trump thought Youngkin would be fine.

    It takes heavy spinning to turn that into evidence that Trump was a big boost for Youngkin. Ronna McDaniel dutifully (or slavishly) spun it to boost Trump’s ego.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  54. If Trump is nominated in 2024, there’s no hope.
    IMO, there is hope if Trump phases out of the picture, along his tariffs, his fiscal irresponsibility, his adoration of dictators, his hostility toward allies, his glandular decision making process, his fascism, his racism, his protectionism, his populism, his xenophobia, etc.
    In other words, I’ll have hope when the GOP returns to its traditional conservative roots. Trump was good at attacking Democrats, and us Republicans can emulate that, but there’s little else.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  55. Dana – Boo

    mg (8cbc69)

  56. Dana – Boo

    mg (8cbc69) — 11/3/2021 @ 11:54 am

    The thoughtful debate we’ve come to expect from you.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  57. Never has been hope for the republican party. And if you belong to club republican – shame on you.

    mg (8cbc69)

  58. Time 123 – Boo

    mg (8cbc69)

  59. I’m pretty happy with this outcome all things considered.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  60. Along Patterico’s lines, it would be fair to ask how Youngkin and DeSantis would have voted if they were Senators on 1/6/2021. It’s hypothetical, but it would be something.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  61. Scared of an old man who gives a schiff.
    You people are pathetic.

    mg (8cbc69)

  62. It should calm the hysteria on the Trumpy and trad-con right about America being in such imminent peril of destruction that we can’t rely on the institutions anymore and we’ll need a civil war and a caesar to save the country.

    Trump as Caesar? Don’t we at least get to start with Augustus? Why head straight to Nero?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. The Lincoln Project
    @ProjectLincoln
    ·
    5h
    JD Vance could be Ohio’s Youngkin — a Trumpist who will don a fleece vest and pretend he’s something he’s not.

    Democratic strategist and Sr. Advisor to The Lincoln Project, @JoeTrippi, breaks it down on the latest episode of the pod: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-12-month-countdown-begins/id1551582052?i=1000540526655

    https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln

    I am confused. Is Youngkin a Trumpist or not?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  64. @ Kevin M.

    Vote for one, but two are elected, was the way New York City Council at large members were elected (two from each borough, including Staten Island) until the whole system, and also the Board of Estimate, was thrown out as the result of lawsuits in the 1980s.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/23/nyregion/justices-void-new-york-city-s-government-demand-voter-equality-in-all-boroughs.html

    I cannot find exactly when the At Large system ended.

    The AL members were always one Democrat and one Republican, except in Manhattan where it could be 1 Democrat and 1 Liberal.

    The New York Times didn’t like the system of electing at karge members:

    https://www.nytimes.com/1977/11/08/archives/election-day.html

    …We review below the preferences we have expressed in recent days plus our recommendations in judicial elections. In some of these we found more qualified candidates than vacancies and therefore state some preferences while listing other qualified candidates in alphabetical order. The most troublesome procedure concerns the election of New York City councilmen, at large. The voter may choose only one, but the two candidates with the highest totals will be elected. In every borough except Staten Island—where there is no contest—we have recommended two candidates, listing first the one who seems to need and merit the most help.

    MAYOR: Mario M. Cuomo (Liberal‐Neighborhood Preservation) COMPTROLLER: Harrison J. Goldin (Democratic‐Liberal) PRESIDENT OF THE CITY COUNCIL: Carol Bellamy (Democratic‐Liberal)

    BOROUGH PRESIDENT Robert F. Wagner, Jr. (Rep.‐Lib.)

    CITY COUNCIL

    At Large—Henry J. Stern (Lib.) or Arch Gillies (Rep.) ….

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  65. [Youngkin] knows how unpopular unrestricted trade, forced austerity, ideological foreign policy, relying on unreliable allies, predictable process-dependent decision making, hands-off governance, ignorance of human differences, not protecting key industries, and being beholden to foreign money and powers actually is.

    Well, let’s see: unrestricted trade, forced austerity, ideological foreign policy, relying on unreliable allies, and being beholden to foreign money and powers were not at all factors in the Virginia gubernatorial race, and the other items you mention were largely tangential, with perhaps in its own limited way the exception of ignorance of human differences. Youngkin won because he was able to expose McAuliffe and the Democrats as self-righteous scolds who have contempt for the lives of ordinary folks and who think they have been given the Mandate of Heaven to organize the dreary and humdrum lives of citizens of the Old Dominion.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  66. @63, Kevin, From what I know of military history there aren’t many similarities between Trump and Roman emperors.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  67. Youngkin ran as Bruce Rauner circa 2014 (against a hack-y retread Dem also), whereas as Vance has already cast his lot under the Trumpian banner. Now Ohio Rs of the nebbish DeWine persuation may be spooked into letting Mandel and Vance tire themselves trying to out-Trump each other and letting the more “corporate” Timken or Dolan eke it out.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  68. So, listening to the arguments in NY State Rifle and Pistol Assn v. Bruen

    It seems clear that Justices Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan believe that it is OK that citizens need the approval of government officials to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, without any limitation on the barriers that approval places. Breyer in particular cannot get past “guns are dangerous.”

    Not that this is a great shock.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. McAuliffe was the one who falsified it, bro, he was the one sending out mass mailers with TRUMP ENDORSES YOUNGKIN and as it turns out the Democrats who got them on the daily calculated that it was worth it.

    I’m not a “bro.”
    McCauliffe could do what he wanted, but Youngkin was not running on how much he loved Trump. (That would have been Amanda Chase.)

    Youngkin won a lot of votes from people who thought Trump needed to get the boot, but who tend to prefer conservative policies. It’s pretty strange to believe that Trump’s endorsement of Youngkin over the Democratic candidate is what made those people choose Youngkin over the Democrat.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  70. I am confused. Is Youngkin a Trumpist or not?

    You’re confused. We’re not all taking our cues from the Lincoln Project.

    The Trumpy candidate would have been Amanda Chase. The Virginia GOP rearranged the process so she wouldn’t win the nomination.

    Once again: Youngkin did not use Trump-loyalty as a selling point. And he DID A LOT BETTER than Trump.

    That’s not really so hard to understand.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  71. Trump as Caesar? Don’t we at least get to start with Augustus? Why head straight to Nero?

    “Caesar” as in the imperial title, derived from Julius Caesar’s family name. Octavian took on the name of Caesar, and the Senate added the honorific Augustus. After Tiberius, the family name turned into a title.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  72. My guess is the GOP will have moved on from Trump as Presidential candidate by 2024, but Trump will continue to have a large impact on the party, positive in certain congressional districts, negative in others.
    There are some GOP candidates who need to pick up all the 2020 Trump voters and also pick up some disgruntled 2020 Biden voters that still despise Trump. These candidates are going to need help navigating the Trump ego because he can and has influenced people not to vote for candidates who refuse to kiss the ring.

    Say what you will about DeSantis, he is one of the few people who is blunt and strong willed enough to tell Trump when he is being unhelpful.

    steveg (e81d76)

  73. Some people around here are comfortable or happy with a Youngkin win. Some people are desperate to make the win all about Trump. There appears to be some overlap between the latter group and the people who have ridiculed some of us for supposedly being obsessed with Trump.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  74. A title that meant power for over 2000 years and is in use today as “Czar”.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  75. I imagine it’s not an easy task, but Solicitor General Underwood seems to be having difficulty defending the New York law. Her basic thrust to to get the case remanded. She’s definitely on her back foot here.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. “Caesar” as in the imperial title, derived from Julius Caesar’s family name. Octavian took on the name of Caesar, and the Senate added the honorific Augustus. After Tiberius, the family name turned into a title.

    I was using Caesar as a title, and suggesting that a “good” Caesar would be better to start with that jumping straight to Nero or even Tiberius.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. Kevin, From what I know of military history there aren’t many similarities between Trump and Roman emperors.

    Well, save for Augustus, the early emperors were not military leaders. Tiberius may have had some military role, but Caligula, Claudius and Nero didn’t.

    The riff was off the idea that Trump wanted to displace the Constitution and anoint himself as maximum leader. He has already crossed the Rubicon.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. Trump will not be a factor in 2024. He isn’t now for that matter.

    Youngkin won because he ran on opposition to antiwhite indoctrination in schools.

    Trump won the 2016 nomination because Republican “leaders;” George W. Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, refused to address the concerns of Republican voters. They advocated open borders, endless wars, tax cuts for big business, pandering to people who would never vote for them, etc.

    Trump took advantage of a sentiment that was already there. He didn’t create it. It’s still there, even more so.

    DN (181662)

  79. Is there hope? Yes if you are a anti free trade populist. No if you are a never trumper free trade economic libertarian or neo-con artist.

    asset (08ca8e)

  80. Did George W. Bush advocate “open borders”. No.

    And his policies sharply reduced illegal immigration.

    On January 15, 2019, the NYT published a front-page article by Joe Ward and Anjali Singhvi, illustrated by a number of graphs. The first showed illegal immigration for the fiscal years from 1989 through 2018. Illegal immigration rose during Clinton’s 8 years, peaking at about 1.6 million in 2000. It fell during the 8 Bush years to just over .5 million in 2009, the year he left office. It continued below .5 million during Obama’s years.

    (Among other things, Bush built walls along the border with Mexico, in places where they make sense. He had bipartisan support for much of the effort.)

    Now here’s a challenge for anyone who believes that George W. Bush “advocated” open borders, with no limits on immigration. Find one single time when he said such a thing.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  81. I was using Caesar as a title, and suggesting that a “good” Caesar

    Okay, I failed to read your meaning, and I’m a big enough girl to admit my error. I should have listened to the little voice telling me that you probably knew all that. So I’m left feeling like I’ve been stupid and mean at the same time.

    OTOH, I assume you’re a good enough person to forgive me if I insulted you.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  82. #85
    Well done

    steveg (e81d76)

  83. Did George W. Bush advocate “open borders”. No.

    It’s interesting how often the efforts to glorify Trump rest on falsifying the records of everyone before him.

    tax cuts for big business

    Trump the populist was staunchly opposed to tax cuts for big business, right? He would never have given any benefits to the donor class, right? So instead we got this:

    For the wealthy, banks, and other corporations, the tax reform package was considered a lopsided victory given its significant and permanent tax cuts to corporate profits, investment income, estate tax, and more. Financial services companies stood to see huge gains based on the new, lower corporate rate (21%), as well as the more preferable tax treatment of pass-through companies.4 Some banks said their effective tax rate would drop under 21%.

    Individual tax cuts are set to expire in a few years. Some individuals ended up paying more in taxes.

    So Trump’s main domestic policy success was basically supply-side economics.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  84. Another funny thing is how often we’re told that DJT always put America First, unlike every president before him. Because none of them loved America, you see.

    Then I read about times that Trump bent to the will of foreign leaders in countries where he’s got business interests. Makes you wonder.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  85. Is there hope? Yes if you are a anti free trade populist. No if you are a never trumper free trade economic libertarian or neo-con artist.

    The worm always turns and other wings of the party come back in play. Only an idiot would try to drive people out of a broad-based party because they cannot form a majority out of a rump.

    Of course, an idiot is trying.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. Did George W. Bush advocate “open borders”. No

    Neither did Reagan, GHWB, Clinton or Obama. But they were effectively open nonetheless.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  87. #85
    Well done

    Steve, I’ve go a lot of practice feeling stupid, so that doesn’t bother me so much. But I’m really not mean, for the most part, and not being mean is a lot easier than not being stupid. So the “stupid AND mean” combo makes me glad I’m anonymous here (unless anyone here has been able to recognize the big clues I’ve thrown out).

    Radegunda (33a224)

  88. Individual tax cuts are set to expire in a few years. Some individuals ended up paying more in taxes.

    I paid quite a bit more, as I had a $40,000 one-time CA income tax deduction I could not take.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. Radegunda,

    It’s all in good fun.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. I think we can agree that Trump is not Octavian. TBF, he isn’t Caligula either.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  91. I had to double check after seeing the headline….Newark, Ohio

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/republicans-sweep-newark-elections-eliminate-175918290.html

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  92. #82 Okay, I’ll make it easier: According to “DN”, George W. Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Paul Ryan “advocated” for “open borders”.

    If anyone believes that, find a single example of them saying anything like that.

    (In my humble opinion, the decline in illegal immigration during the George W. Bush administration, much of it the result of his policies, shows conclusively that he was opposed to “open borders”, that his actions matched his rhetoric.

    And I think it plausible that, had Obama built on those policies, illegal immigration would have been reduced even further.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  93. It’s all in good fun.

    Except that I didn’t get the joke.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  94. So the “stupid AND mean” combo makes me glad I’m anonymous here (unless anyone here has been able to recognize the big clues I’ve thrown out).

    Radegunda (33a224) — 11/3/2021 @ 3:19 pm

    Big clues? Ha! I don’t even have an inkling of what state you live in.

    All I know is that you’re a woman and you write very well.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  95. Radegunda – There are some names that, when I see them in the comment list, make me more likely to read a post. Yours is one of them.

    (And then there are other names . . . )

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  96. (And then there are other names . . . )

    Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/3/2021 @ 5:07 pm

    Yes, and one guy in particular has an inexhaustible supply of them.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  97. Periodic warning about referring to previous comments by comment number: if I find Steppe Nomad/SchoolMarm comments, I will delete them and it will throw off your numbering. Do what I do and quote what you are responding to, and any renumbering will not cause your comment to confuse people. (See e.g. steveg’s recent comment.)

    Another note, not that anyone really cares: I have two spam filters. One sends comments into moderation and I get emails with the comments. One sends stuff straight to the trash. DCSCA was in the former. I just moved him to the latter. I review the emails from the moderation folder to make sure nobody’s comments are captured there, and the man has gone manic. Y’all have been spared a gazillion “glorious” and “you bought him you own him” and “but hey no mean tweets” comments. Now I will be spared from reading them too. The volume has skyrocketed, the tone has gotten even uglier, and all of it has only cemented my previous decision to remove him from this comment section — which I did out of his creepy racism and not his broken-record Biden hatred and other weirdness.

    I miss the guy who inhabited this comment section in the era before Trump; he had good insights into the space program. I wanted to talk to him about recently reading a book about the Apollo 8 mission and so forth. But he has become absolutely insufferable.

    My condolences to DCSCA on whatever is going on in his life that is causing this episode, but I no longer want any part of it.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  98. Yes, and one guy in particular has an inexhaustible supply of them.

    Heh. Yeah, that’s the guy whose comments I just removed from this thread. He’ll be back. He can’t stay away. He is obsessed with me. He cares deeply what I think. It’s weird and creepy.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  99. That’s an unfortunate development about DCSCA, Patterico. When he wasn’t being Johnny One Note about Reagan and Biden, he had some good comments. My favorite was his story about the day JFK was assassinated, and the concomitant depiction of his mother.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  100. They don’t stand in opposition to the man, they stand in opposition to what he represented

    I’m fairly certain I stand in opposition to both.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  101. “I’m fairly certain I stand in opposition to both.”

    As every American patriot should.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  102. “And I’m properly fixated on making sure your evil and selfish ideologies are mocked wherever you try to promulgate them.”

    Get a life.

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  103. norcal (b9a35f) — 11/3/2021 @ 5:43 pm

    Patterico [DCSCA] When he wasn’t being Johnny One Note about Reagan and Biden, he had some good comments. My favorite was his story about the day JFK was assassinated, and the concomitant depiction of his mother.

    I tried to find it, but Google no longer indexes the individual posts on Patterico (or any of them because the main page doesn’t stay the same.)

    The individual posts would include the comments. Nothing from Patterico gets indexed. So nobody new is going to find him, unless he gets linked. I don;t know if Patterico did anything to stop the indexing.

    But Bing does. (still index them)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  104. “Is there hope for the Republican Party?”

    Yes, if they oppose this Democratic tax cut for the rich:

    And so we see Democrats, again, working to repeal the SALT cap — reportedly for five years, including one year of retroactive repeal. Households making $1 million or more a year would receive roughly half the benefit of this policy, according to estimates from the Tax Policy Center. About 70 percent of the benefit would go to households making at least $500,000.

    (SALT = state and local taxes. It most benefits wealthy people in high tax states, for example millionaires and billionaires in Chuck Schumer’s New York and Nancy Pelosi’s California.)

    The cap repeal would be the single most expensive part of the Democrat’s budget bill.

    (Here’s a brief explanation. For the record, I would repeal the deduction entirely, but will admit the 10K limit was a good start.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  105. OK, why should income be taxed twice?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. We actually went through this when the SALT limitation was applied, and it turned out that the people who were all for it were in states with no income tax. It wasn’t just the “rich” either, unless you think a family with income of $120K and a property tax bill is “rich.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. 106. On closer inspection, Patterico seems to still indexed a little.

    Patterico (e349ce) — 11/3/2021 @ 5:28 pm

    I miss the guy who inhabited this comment section in the era before Trump…

    You can still find him on https://justoneminute.typepad.com

    He’s not doing any of his shtick there. Mostly anyway. Of course, he gets less argument there.

    https://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2021/11/big-night-in-virginia-and-houston.html

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  108. Big clues? Ha! I don’t even have an inkling of what state you live in.

    All I know is that you’re a woman and you write very well.

    Thanks, norcal. I’m coy about where I live now. There are other clues, including my musical references, that some people could put together and think “She would have that kind of screen name, wouldn’t she”? But those people might not be hanging around in this very select company.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  109. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 11/3/2021 @ 5:07 pm

    A double dose of flattery today. Lord keep me humble.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  110. I wrote down the wrong number and was meaning to compliment this, thinking it was a good way to disengage:

    “Okay, I failed to read your meaning, and I’m a big enough girl to admit my error. I should have listened to the little voice telling me that you probably knew all that. So I’m left feeling like I’ve been stupid and mean at the same time.

    OTOH, I assume you’re a good enough person to forgive me if I insulted you.”

    Now I feel, correctly it turns out, like the dunce.

    I’m starting a GoFundMe page to buy some reading glasses

    steveg (e81d76)

  111. Talking about Caesar: All the Roman Emperors called themselves Caesar – and they also called themselves Augustus – and for awhile they also called themselves Antoninus.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  112. There are other clues, including my musical references, that some people could put together and think “She would have that kind of screen name, wouldn’t she”? But those people might not be hanging around in this very select company.

    Radegunda (33a224) — 11/3/2021 @ 7:09 pm

    Oh, I love a good mystery.

    Okay, Radegunda, here is my best guess. Since Radegunda was a nun, and you like classical music, I say you’re one of The Poor Clares of Arundel. I question this postulation, however, because I’ve never detected any British spelling in your writing.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  113. Plenty of great commenters have left this site.
    Cheers DCSCA.

    mg (8cbc69)

  114. I say you’re one of The Poor Clares of Arundel.

    Not a nun, but I had the name in my mental stock. I like classical music but have a low Mozart tolerance and a possibly weird fondness for Take That (2006 onward, NOT 1990s), especially the live shows. And I’m a fan of a-Ha. That’s an unusual combo, Id say, and some people know that about me. But I’m not well known at all. So the mystery deepens.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  115. Jim,

    Here’s the thing about the SALT cap: It did not impact the “rich” at all. Upon agreeing to the SALT cap, they dropped the top rate to 37% — it was 39% up until that point. For most states with an income tax, the lower top rate balanced the loss of the state tax deduction — but only for those in that top bracket.

    The upper-middle-class, generally in a lower bracket, did not see any matching rate reduction other than what they were already going to see before the SALT cap was added.

    What you do not see in these reports of restoring the SALT deduction is that they are ALSO wanting to restore the top rate to 39.6%, but in order to get the centrists on board, they had to give up the matching SALT cap.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  116. George W. Bush pushed for a series of amnesties in his second term. He, McCain, Romney, and Ryan went along with the border being “open.” These gentlemen acquiesced to the Left on the “cultural issues.”

    Trump turned his agenda over to Paul Ryan in his first two years, resulting in the GOP losing the House. Trump made noises about border security but didn’t follow through.

    Trump will eventually lose the energy he has for a man his age. 78 is much older than 74 in that regard. Trump may develop a health issue. He may not be alive in 2024.

    DN (181662)

  117. Trump will eventually lose the energy he has for a man his age. 78 is much older than 74 in that regard. Trump may develop a health issue. He may not be alive in 2024.

    One could argue it was better to have a 12 year presidency with a 2 to 4 year (depending how bad the 2022 beat down on the Dems is) break in the middle, than a 6 or 7 year presidency with Pence filling out the remaining 1or 2 years afterwards.

    That said, Biden clinging on until his absolute worldly end date could hurt Trump 2024 in one way. His decline on public display, while certainly not in the nations best interest, outlines the case for not replacing a 78-82 year old with another 78-82 year old. Give him the Apollo Theatre Hook and you will just have Harris’s plain ol incompetence.

    urbanleftbehind (afb13f)

  118. Harris will take over on Jan 21st, 2023

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  119. Radegunda,

    If there were a way I could easily assemble all your previous comments I would offer a better guess. As it is, I’ll have to make do with whatever crumbs you leave going forward. 🤔

    norcal (b9a35f)

  120. I don;t think Joe Biden has dementia. He sometimes, though, can’t remember a name, like the name of that country – not Russia – that’s an potential adversary nuclear power.

    “With regard to the disappointment, the disappointment relates to the fact that Russia and uh and uh and uh including uh not only Russia but China basically didn’t show up in terms of any commitments to deal with climate change.”

    He also said gasoline was 300 – and then stopped himself and mocked himself immediately.

    And, by the way, when — when — when the cost of a gallon of gasoline gets to above three hundred and — three hundred — $3.35 a gallon, it has profound impact on working-class families just to get back and forth to work. So, I don’t see anything inconsistent with that.

    He gave a good argument.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2663 secs.