More Low-Hanging Fruit: MAGAland Mocks Alec Baldwin After Tragic Film Set Incident
[guest post by Dana]
This low-hanging fruit is an important reminder to non-MAGA Republicans: This is today’s Republican Party. MAGA Republicans know that these attacks will play well with their base. And that’s precisely the point.
As you are certainly aware by now, actor Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun (or perhaps real gun) on the set of his new movie after he had been told that it was a “cold gun” (no live rounds), subsequently killing the film’s director of photography and injuring the director. Pouncing on the horrific film set tragedy to score MAGA points, these t-shirts are currently being sold on Donald Trump Jr.’s website:
And then there’s this from Rep. Lauren Boebert, who tweeted just hours after the announcement of the incident:
.@AlecBaldwin are these still available?
Asking for a movie producer… pic.twitter.com/AeE5VHLhqN
— Lauren Boebert (@laurenboebert) October 22, 2021
J.D. Vance, currently an Ohio candidate for the US Senate, also jumped on the bandwagon. (The capitulation of Vance to Trumpism has been especially disappointing.)
Dear @jack let Trump back on. We need Alec Baldwin tweets.
— J.D. Vance (@JDVance1) October 22, 2021
So, you get the picture. In the name of payback and scoring political points, MAGA Republicans are roundly attacking a celebrity who accidentally shot and killed an individual all because he is fiercely anti-Trump and equally fierce in his advocacy for gun control.
Once upon a time, there would have been an outcry against those exploiting a tragedy like this for their own gain, or their tribe’s gain. Instead, such an incident would have elicited sympathy for all parties involved. But those days are long gone. Social media has made it incredibly easy to shed civility and basic good manners. In the name of politics (and vengeance on behalf of one’s tribe), compassion is now for losers. When tragedy strikes, an obligatory pounce by one or the other side of the aisle is commonplace. Does anyone even cringe at the vulgarity? Polarization and tribal allegiances have begotten a cheapened people, a crass people, and a people who believe that common decency is to be mocked. And the worst part of it all is the bleating attempt to justify such behavior. I think the word I’m looking for is reprehensible.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (174549) — 10/25/2021 @ 4:05 pmOf course, the tragedy is all part of a conspiracy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/25/2021 @ 4:11 pmLoad the weapon yourself.Unloaded many rounds in my life and never had anyone else mess with loading ammo into the chamber.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 4:14 pmHollyweed people need a new set of rules.
Better link to the conspiracy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/25/2021 @ 4:22 pmBad black powder blank, mg. .45 Colt or .38 something. The crimp separated and it was enough to slice the poor lady’s jugular just by the clavicle. A guess on my part, but a good guess. I’m also guessing that the gun was an Italian-made replica. They basically have a monopoly on Old West movie guns of any kind.
And, no, on a movie set, the ventriloquists’ dummies do not load the guns themselves. Not ever. The armorer is supposed to, and from what I’ve also read, and Dana wrote, a prop assistant passed this one out as a “cold gun” meaning no blank.
But the bottom line is that Baldwin was playing with the gun while the cinematographer (that’s the dead lady) and the director (wounded) were still lining up the camera (I don’t want to say “shot”). Thumb on hammer, finger on trigger, something like that, while practicing his cross draw. If you believe Hollywood reporters. That was the proximate cause. A doofus.
nk (1d9030) — 10/25/2021 @ 4:46 pmBranca looks at NM law re: felony involuntary manslaughter.
ColoComment (905a46) — 10/25/2021 @ 4:48 pmhttps://youtu.be/upDuj8EcYeg
I don’t imagine that there is a dearth of “I didn’t know the gun was loaded” precedents.
nk (1d9030) — 10/25/2021 @ 5:09 pmmark the date
october 25 2021: partisan vileness hits twitter
JF (e1156d) — 10/25/2021 @ 5:11 pmIt was, possibly, a real gun:
Dana (174549) — 10/25/2021 @ 5:23 pmIn the parlance of happyfeet, “what even is a jd vance”
Leviticus (315227) — 10/25/2021 @ 5:40 pmMore from the victim of so-called “payback”:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6IL4sMC_XBE
Poor guy…
BuDuh (e64291) — 10/25/2021 @ 5:55 pmI just don’t understand Hollyweed and the rules they set for themselves. I do understand gun safety. And they don’t. Rest in Peace, ma’am.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 7:06 pmI am not a Trump follower but in 2019 Alec Baldwin attacked Liz Cheney for her father’s gun accident. Pay backs hurt. He is also the arrogant man that exploded over a parking space. Elite hypocrisy in
Michael Harris (aa45c6) — 10/25/2021 @ 7:16 pmConservative pundit Candace Owens attacks Alec Baldwin over accidental shooting calling it ‘poetic justice’ for his previous criticism of Donald Trump
………
The conservative pundit, 32, has since deleted her provocative tweets and Instagram posts after criticizing Baldwin over the shooting that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.
Owens wrote: ‘Alec Baldwin spent 4 years dedicated to painting Donald Trump and his supporters as evil murderers.
‘What has happened to Alec would be an example of poetic justice if it weren’t for the actual innocent people that were murdered by him. Pray for their families. So sad.’
The right-wing talk show host then added: ‘Will correct that last tweet to say Alec Baldwin *killed* someone- not murdered someone, as murder carries a different legal definition.
‘Literally not one single thing that Alec Baldwin has said about Donald Trump and his supporters is going to age well.’
……..
One person called the commentator (a coward and) ‘spineless’ and said the tweets were ‘below her’.
Another wrote that her response to the tragedy was ‘tasteless’, saying Baldwin’s politics had no bearing on the shooting.
Rip Murdock (893091) — 10/25/2021 @ 7:19 pm……..
CO’s tweets won’t age well if she keeps taking them down-it makes her look weak by not having the courage of her convictions. She should ask “What would Donald do?” Trump certainly wouldn’t remove his tweets.
Spoiler alert: Branca doesn’t dive into the “mean t-shirt” angle.
BuDuh (4a7846) — 10/25/2021 @ 7:43 pmWith his comment about police officers – ” what does it feel like to shoot someone” now you know, Mr. pompous.. He is responsible. He pulled the trigger. One learns that in 6 th grade gun safety class.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 7:43 pm#13 – Still and all, exploiting a woman’s tragic death to make money is gross.
Turning it into a morality tale about the great sinfulness of criticizing Donald Trump is insane.
Radegunda (7f4ba9) — 10/25/2021 @ 7:43 pm@14 we’re learning alec is the real victim
JF (e1156d) — 10/25/2021 @ 7:45 pmWhy cant conservatives play by the lefts rules? Baldwin is a prick and would be dishing out hate if the tables were turned. He is the moron who didn’t check his gun for proper ammo. Idiot ended up taking a life and not his.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:04 pmYeeeaaah I tend to agree. If you even hold a gun without personally checking to see if it’s loaded you are … responsible. Don’t even touch it if you aren’t going to figure out whether it’s loaded.
Leviticus (315227) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:17 pm#19 — Because gleefully exploiting someone’s untimely death to score cheap political points or boost a weird personality cult is callous and amoral. So is exploiting it to make money.
What is the righteous goal that’s being served by trying to out-ugly “the left’s rules” in this particular case? What policy or moral purpose does it advance? Is this how “real conservatives” go about restoring the “values” they claim to be so concerned about?
Radegunda (7f4ba9) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:20 pmI think there’s enough fault to go around on this one. Everyone who touched that gun has a share in the blame.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:26 pmBoo hoo to you preachy conservatives.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:28 pmWhat many people are describing as humor directed at Alec Baldwin for his monumental ignorance and recklessness is actually just people pointing out a mountain of irony.
Baldwin is a fervent anti-2nd Amendment zealot with almost zero knowledge of guns and apparently even less of gun safety.
He has multiple tweets declaring that people he disapproves of need to be ‘shot’, some ‘in the face’.
He even tweeted that he wondered how it must feel to accidentally shoot someone, I guess he now knows.
According to reports, there had already been at least two gun accidents in the week before the fatal incident. The producer (guess who) made no attempt to replace an obviously incompetent set armorer.
Union crew had complained about working conditions, being rushed, gun safety and other issues to the point of walking off. The union members who sought to stay on the job were ordered off the property by police called by the producer.
Now it’s being reported that the same real gun that fired the fatal shot was being used by cast/crew for recreational target shooting on breaks.
All signs so far point to extreme criminal negligence and to use the justified response to this accidental death that never should have happened as just another excuse to attack ‘MAGALand’ is a very curious line to take.
Obudman (ff7852) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:28 pmYou pull the trigger, you get the crow bar hotel. Unless you are a left wing acting shooter…..
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:30 pmAnd we should lower ourselves to Baldwin’s level because why?
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:33 pmHe won’t do a day, just like the lefty who murdered Ashley Babbitt.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:33 pm26- Its how the game has changed, bub .
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:35 pmGo be a priest.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:35 pmIt’s in poor taste, however deserving Baldwin is of any opportunity to mock him.
“The gun isn’t loaded” is one of those things you are never supposed to accept without looking.
But still, someone died and it’s poor form to make the funny.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:38 pmThis illustrates the real problem with MAGA: It is relentless preaching to the choir with little or no care what the other 80% think.
TL;DR: cult.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:42 pmAnd the solid base of Donald Trump knows they are right. Freak flag flying they will march onward, never understanding what utter fukking fools they are.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:43 pmThey actually had a guy who was supposed to be checking ammo, in fact he was supposed to in charge of all guns and never put real ammo in them. Then he put some guns out on a table — apparently without checking — and some gofer told Baldwin “here’s a cold gun.”
This was gross negligence on a half a dozen people’s part (including Baldwin of the deep pockets) and the really terrible thing is that it wasn’t the first accidental discharge that day.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:46 pmfelony involuntary manslaughter
Yes, but it’s the armorer who falls first. I’m going to bet he was drunk.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:48 pmIf baldwin was practicing his draws, what was he doing pointing the gun at someone? You never point a gun at anyone, let alone pull the trigger. That is unacceptable behavior.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:51 pmLock him up
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2021 @ 8:55 pmYes, but it’s the armorer who falls first. I’m going to bet he was drunk.
24-year old woman, according to CNN. This was her second gig as head armorer.
What is dishonest is the “prop gun” malfunction meme starting with the 9/11 call. And that the victims were struck with “debris”. Hollywood assholes!
nk (1d9030) — 10/25/2021 @ 9:05 pmCorrection. That’s how your game is played, not mine, and I don’t have to be a priest either.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 10/25/2021 @ 9:08 pmBTW, Ashli Babbitt wasn’t murdered. She was a fool who so believed Trump’s lies that she chose to be break the law and riot the Capitol.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Leviticus (315227) — 10/25/2021 @ 9:19 pm@34 more like on the ganja!
asset (bafbe0) — 10/25/2021 @ 9:23 pmThe Left always speaks and acts with proper decorum.
Sarcasm off.
DN (181662) — 10/25/2021 @ 9:28 pmHe won’t do a day, just like the lefty who murdered Ashley Babbitt.
Kaitlyn Jenner and the woman he (sic) rear-ended into oncoming traffic is a better example.
nk (1d9030) — 10/25/2021 @ 9:41 pmDeserve’s got nothing to do with it. There isn’t a right or a norm, constitutional or otherwise, that survives if we reserve them for people we think deserve it. If you’re good with that race to the bottom, don’t be surprised when those of us who still value civilized society judge you accordingly.
lurker (59504c) — 10/25/2021 @ 10:57 pmThere seems to be some implication that someone put a live round into the weapon after they had been set out, unloaded, but were apparently not continuously watched. A “joke” gone wrong?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 11:53 pmLeviticus !
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 11:54 pmHe won’t do a day, just like the lefty who murdered Ashley Babbitt.
Policemen are lefties now?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/25/2021 @ 11:56 pmThere’s nobody so far right (or left) that there isn’t someone fringier willing to excommunicate them for their apostasies.
Today’s case in point, Newsmax declares Fox News “woke.”
lurker (59504c) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:34 amnk
No, it was the assistant director, unless they are the same person. The assistant director was the one who handed him the gun and told him it was a cold gun.
From this and other things it sounds like there was a lot of confusion or disorganization on the set, and of course this had to be the result of people not talking to each other and assuming things.
Some people had earlier decided to engage in some target shooting, probably without permission and therefore without telling anyone, and left a bullet or blank in at least one gun.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 3:17 amFrank Marano on WABC said he thought there was almost never bad humor. SNL made jokes about J Simpson and Robert Blake.
But those were already big things anyway – I don’t know – it feels different. Perhaps because the focus is not so much on Alex Baldwin and he’s not lying.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 3:34 amWhat a sad, tragic, accident.
Time123 (f95a66) — 10/26/2021 @ 6:37 am“24-year old woman, according to CNN. This was her second gig as head armorer.”
Imagine this being the person in charge of your film set firearms:
https://twitter.com/teresafreethink/status/1452003565090783235?s=21
But the important thing is to chastise anyone pointing out the lunacy.
Obudman (9c9c0c) — 10/26/2021 @ 6:50 amWhen they say low-budget production, they mean low budget production.
When Clint Eastwood, who is not anti-gun, made The Outlaw Josey Wales, he had hard rubber (actual prop gun) copies of his Colt Walkers for carrying and waving around. I know that as reported. He would also have had semi-shootable Walker replica cartridge conversions designed to fire only theatrical blanks with the internals of a starter’s gun. If he had any faithful shootable percussion replicas for verisimilitude at all, they would have been filmed only for close-ups and spliced in.
nk (1d9030) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:07 amDana:
Where were you when Kathy Griffin was traipsing about with the mock severed head of Donald Trump?
Gary L. Zerman (a1521c) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:17 amLiberty & Truth require constant vigilance. GLZ.
Civility Bullschiff.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:21 amGaslighting and dishing out disrespect has been THE go-to behavior exhibited by the left for many years. Accompanied by whining/calls for civility when it is employed against them and their ridiculous Bullschiff.
Alec “Schweddy Balls” Baldwin… your poultry is coming home… to roost.
He should receive the same treatment and standards the average citizen gets.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:27 amGary L. Zerman,
Right here, buddy.
Dana (174549) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:40 amThis response from MAGA makes sense. Lashing out at slights is a main part of the movement. Someone being tragically killed doesn’t register as important.
Time123 (f95a66) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:50 amIt was not an accident. He was given a gun, he didn’t check it, he pointed it at a person, and he pulled the trigger. Being told it was a “cold gun” doesn’t change that.
I don’t know that a “prop gun” is an important distinction. When the trigger was pulled it functioned as a gun. It was a gun used as a prop.
This was negligence. Someone died. He should be held accountable. So should others to the degree they were responsible. I don’t know the murder laws specific to the location. But I’d call this manslaughter.
On the other issue of dunking on him. That is just obnoxious. Someone died.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:58 am@57 in a post about the response not about the tragic death
JF (e1156d) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:59 amAre you really anti-gun when you profit off movies glorifying gun violence?
BillPasadena (76dc69) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:02 amSo, according to the LA Times, I was not confabulating:
It could still turn out to be a blank whose crimp separated and not a bullet, Faux News “experts” arguing with passionate sincerity notwithstanding.
nk (1d9030) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:10 amAre you really anti-gun when you profit off movies glorifying gun violence?
Right on! I consider John Wick III the most pornographic movie I have ever seen. Mind-numbing!
nk (1d9030) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:12 amFrom CNN:
Dana (174549) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:24 am#56 Dana – Gary L. Zerman,
Right here, buddy.
Dana (174549) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:40 am
____________________
Here is how your 6/2/17 post began:
It’s Friday, so you’ll have to cut me slack for posting about such absurd happenings. But honestly, this fairly defines the absurd culture in which we find ourselves currently flailing about. I studiously avoided posting about the Kathy Griffin debacle when it happened because yawn, but now it’s gotten so ridiculous that it demands its own separate post. …
________________________
You admittedly did not say squat about the Kathy Griffin event (which was first posted on 5.31.17), until 6.2.17) – when it was by your own term then ‘low-hanging fruit’, as Griffin had then been largely condemned and the water was now safe for your belated post.
So, yawn – back at you buddy.
Liberty & Truth require constant vigilance. GLZ.
Gary L. Zerman (a1521c) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:27 amWho died on Kathy Griffin’s set? I forgot.
nk (1d9030) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:33 amNk, what she did was crude and insulting. I’m glad she was fired.
Plus she hurt the feelings of the most sensitive group of people our country has ever known.
Time123 (f95a66) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:37 am@53: People go to lengths like that for a reason. Eastwood probably had seen enough gun-surprises in his career.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:38 amPlus she hurt the feelings of the most sensitive group of people our country has ever known.
A group known especially for its sensitivity towards others. Or is that Others?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:42 amHey, Zerman, where is YOUR post on Kathy Griffin? Guess what. No one here is obligated to talk about what you think they should talk about, although Patterico has a standing offer if you give him $100.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:44 am#68 — If by others, you mean Donald Trump and some of his family.
Appalled (1a17de) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:49 am@70 the thread is going around in circles
let’s level set:
vile nevertrumper commits manslaughter and it’s about how trumpers hurt your feelings
JF (e1156d) — 10/26/2021 @ 8:55 amhttps://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2021/10/26/fema-rejects-appeal-over-denial-of-request-of-federal-emergency-declaration-for-border-crisis-in-texas-n424781
Trump says something mean. Biden’s policies destroy lives.
Choose wisely.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:07 amThat makes even less sense then your typical comment.
But good job communicating your resentment. That parts clear.
Time123 (f95a66) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:07 amBut good job communicating your resentment.
Trump’s people are very good at that, along with assigning blame.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:11 amhttps://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1452234951420780547
Congratulations to those of you that voted for this. More poverty, more suffering. But no mean tweets.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:14 amAll petroleum prices are on the rise — natural gas has doubled, propane is way up. This is a known effect of the futures market. When future supplies seem constrained (like when the government bans new fracking), people with active wells slow their production hoping for higher prices later. Similarly, when there is a relaxation, and the prospect is of future abundance, well owners ramp up production to sell before the price drops.
It’s been seen time and again. Biden knows this — he WANTS fossil fuels to have high prices. It’s also why the Greens and the oil companies are in cahoots in California.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:21 amhttps://therightscoop.com/hidden-video-from-murphy-campaign-reveals-nj-governor-will-mandate-vaccines-after-he-wins-election/
If this type of fascism was so popular, he’d run on it instead of hiding it till after the election.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:25 amYes Kevin they are drastically on the rise. It’s an intentional tax on the populace and living wage decrease forced upon us by leftists in government.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:26 amThese days its not an accidental discharge, its a negligent discharge.
Once the gun is in your hands, it doesn’t matter what anyone elase has said or done.
Its your responsibility to check for yourself.
Baldwin has been told that you are to treat the gun as if it is loaded regardless of what anyone says, so he’s negligent
Plus the big question. Why would anyone point it at the Associate Producer? Sounds likea Baldwin style dick move
steveg (e81d76) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:39 amNo reason for that at all.
NJRob is on a thread hijacking roll.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:45 am#71 —
Actually the post is about how Trumpers never let a good schadenfreude go to waste and Donald Jr. literally profiting on the misery of someone else.
It’s not my favorite kind of Dana post because this seems to be a nearly daily event in Trumpworld and it gets a little monotonous to notice it.
Appalled (1a17de) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:53 amSeriously? Doing a write-up a few days after an event occurred, and on a blog where I am not compensated, is an indicator that I was waiting until it was “safe”? You have got to be kidding. At any rate, I’m with Kevin M: where is your post on the subject?
At any rate, direct any complaints to the boss: patterico@gmail.com.
Dana (174549) — 10/26/2021 @ 10:53 am@ Appalled,
They’re not my favorite posts either. However, I think they’re important as the Republican Party seems set on backing Trump in 2024. They provide an insight into the GOP as they are yet more reminders of how Trumpism is today’s Republican Party. That impacts everyone who holds to a right-of-center view. IOW, collectively, these are all red flags, to one degree or another, and we are foolish people if we don’t acknowledge them and see them for what they are, and the potentially disastrous impact they have as they speak to the MAGA base and that base coalesces around Trump even more.
Dana (174549) — 10/26/2021 @ 11:00 amNJRob: “Congratulations to those of you that voted for this. More poverty, more suffering. But no mean tweets.”
Isn’t demand for a lot of stuff going up as people have gotten vaccinated and there is more economic activity around the country and the world? Supply can’t meet demand and prices rise. The price of oil has gone way up…the price at the pump will track this. I wonder if Trump would have been able to mean-tweet basic economics away. But for some, everything is about the 2020 election and politics. Rob has not convinced me that Trump is any more ethical…any more knowledgeable….and more competent….by pointing out Biden’s bad policy, reasoning, or mental state. Talk about supply and demand, how about demanding that the GOP field better candidates that can start winning back the votes driven out by Trump? It makes me wonder if Rob (and mg) could even imagine a better candidate…
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 10/26/2021 @ 11:05 amHe’s following the social media model for getting rich.
Hoi Polloi (ade50d) — 10/26/2021 @ 11:11 am63.
And they undoubtedly did it without telling the person who was in charge of the guns, secretly “borrowing” it, and secretly returning it.
The gun was probably last checked the previous night.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 11:54 amPlease cite actual historical examples within living memory, preferably by a prominent conservative doing something halfway as reckless with consequences half as terrible.
I can think of one just as reckless with the same consequences, and the person skated:
South Dakota Attorney General Avoids Jail Time for Fatal Crash
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:01 pm76. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:21 am
But not now, like St. Augustine.
Although they say, he meant that as parody….. but he was describing what he thought in the past.
https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/sundayheraldreview.html
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:03 pmAJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 10/26/2021 @ 11:05 am
Biden’s energy policy is worse than Trump’s. That’s not just basic supply and demand at work.
Biden has intentionally hobbled our energy policy. His most recent response is that he could release some of the strategic reserve and it might drop prices. And he did a good cornholeio impression.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:08 pmThere were four people who could have checked the gun: The key grip, the armorer, the assistant director, and Alec Baldwin.
And, of course, the people who took the gun(s) to play with, and put them back, without letting the armorer know….
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:09 pmSammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 11:54 am
Every time anyone picks up/is given/etc a gun they are responsible for checking whether it’s loaded. If you have a gun in your hand you are responsible for knowing whether it’s loaded. There are no exceptions. There are no excuses. If you haven’t checked you assume it’s loaded. It’s easy to check it.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:19 pmBiden wants at least a basic agreement on the bills (that they will be set on the course to passage) by the end of this week, because he wants to be able to go to the summit in Glascow and to be able to announce there that the United States of America will cut carbon dioxide emissions by some incredible ercent by the year 2030 or 2035 or whatever, so that then, he thinks, he can get other countries to make the same commitment, because he knows it would be useless if the United States alone does it. Biden is really interested in the “climate” provisions of his Build Back Better bill.
Of course, none of this makes any sens, even if you believe the climate models. They’ve picked an arbitrary amount to reduce carbon emissions by, which they didn’t get from any of their models.
Reducing carbon emissions is a tired old idea, that slumbers underground during the years nothing happens, and you might be forgiven for thinking it is politically dead, but to use a phrase that Noam Chomsky coined;
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
Meanwhile the bill may pass, partially funded by an unconstitutional and unrealizable tax (forcing stock sales will reduce the price of Amazon and Tesla stock, and if it at all fair, the next year the Treasury would be writing billions dollar plus checks to Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk.)
But all that counts is the CBO score the bill gets, and Joe Manchin’s and Kyrsten Sinema’s votes.
chin;s and
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:30 pmAj,
That’s the leftist spin on things, but it 8snt reality. Demand is not up. Supply is way down. But you can continue to promote the spin if you’d prefer.
NJRob (435b38) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:31 pmBring back the misery index.
NJRob (435b38) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:32 pm92. frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:19 pm
Now all they have to do is take fingerprints on the shell casing (r maybe DNA?) to find out put the bullet in the gun. But that may not be the person who returned the guns, and left a booby trap.
It’s like digging a pit in a street and covering it up.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:35 pmSammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:35 pm
I wondered about that too. It’d be interesting to see if they can do that.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:42 pmSammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:35 pm
But it’s not like digging a pit and covering it. There is no excuse for not knowing whether a gun you’ve got in your hand it loaded. If it’s possible, there is less than no excuse for pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger when you haven’t checked that it’s unloaded.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 12:45 pm“There is no excuse for not knowing whether a gun you’ve got in your hand it loaded. If it’s possible, there is less than no excuse for pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger when you haven’t checked that it’s unloaded.”
What if it’s a movie gun with bullets with the powder removed? I’m thinking specifically of the Brandon Lee incident, but I imagine that it’s fairly common to have real appearing bullets in the gun but they aren’t “live”, or aren’t supposed to be.
Davethulhu (9ab4fa) — 10/26/2021 @ 1:37 pm@99 blank rounds don’t look like real bullets
the gun used by baldwin was a revolver, making even easier to check
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-blank-rounds-of-bullet-and-live-rounds
JF (e1156d) — 10/26/2021 @ 1:58 pmDavethulhu (9ab4fa) — 10/26/2021 @ 1:37 pm
I’m not 100% on the Lee incident but my understanding is that a previous round was a hang-fire or squib round that got stuck in the barrel and wasn’t cleared. Then the load-out was changed to a round that had the ability to dislodge the stuck round as a fatal projectile. In that case I think the person using the weapon, both times, knew that the weapon was loaded. The negligence there was not clearing the stuck round and the question is what is reasonable for the various people who handled the weapon to have done based on what they knew or should have known. In that case it is easier to argue a mistake of fact. I’d want to know more details.
I was taught to do several things when first taking a weapon and I was also taught to immediately clear any misfire, hang-fire, etc. I was never taught to look down the barrel of a gun to make sure it’s clear before using it except with a breech-loading shotgun and that’s the only time that’s really feasible. I personally wouldn’t leave a jammed weapon unattended because that is negligent by itself.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 2:24 pmI still want to know why Balwin was pointing the gun at the lady.
steveg (e81d76) — 10/26/2021 @ 3:18 pmWas Baldwin trying to bully her?
Maybe he was just waving it around with his finger on the trigger like an idiot, but bullying is also in his repertoire.
NSFW Pulp Fiction accidental discharge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TdLrloGeXw
RIP Mort Sahl (94).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2021 @ 3:51 pm@101 from what I’ve gathered they were talking about a scene, he said something to the effect of “what about this”, and he moved through the scene. When he pulled the trigger I’m guessing he expected a click.
At some point after that he’s supposed to have said “who gave me a cold gun”. If that’s true that tells me his state of mind. That’s why I’m saying manslaughter.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 4:32 pmhttps://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2016/chapter-30/article-2/section-30-2-3/B.
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2016/chapter-30/article-7/section-30-7-4/30-7-4.
nk (1d9030) — 10/26/2021 @ 4:51 pmThe rules only apply one way. This weekend cartoonist Gary Truedeau mocked the death of several conservative radio hosts for dying from COVID, even though they opposed mandatory vaccination. But basic human decency only works one way. Nope, I’m done. They made the rules, now I get to play with them.
coregis (638b71) — 10/26/2021 @ 6:58 pm#103
My wife has an AR replica airsoft rifle that has a full auto setting so she can chase off crows.
I’d never point it at a person even if I was acting. I would also never have my finger on the trigger during a “what about this” session. Its unnecessary and a very bad habit.
I think it is very clear deep pockets Baldwin was comfortable slinging the gun around with his finger on the trigger and having his finger on the trigger during a demo scene is stupid and arrogant (I don’t need to follow basic safety rules, because I am the talent).
I’m hoping Baldwin decides to fight in court rather than pay everyone off as long as they sign an NDA
steveg (e81d76) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:09 pm@106 Don’t point a gun at something you don’t intent to destroy was a rule I learned at the same time as check that it’s loaded. Keep your finger off the trigger was as well.
I’ve got no sympathy for Alec.
I hope he has to fight this as a criminal issue and that’s something an NDA won’t help him with.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/26/2021 @ 9:54 pm106. steveg (e81d76) — 10/26/2021 @ 7:09 pm
No, I don;t need to follow that rule of never pointing a gun at a person because this is a movie, and it would be impossible to shoot this scene, and practice for how to photograph it, if we didn’t point guns at people and fire them. Instead, we’ll use other rules, like having some protocols in place to prevent firing a real gun at someone.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/27/2021 @ 7:27 amThis “rule” of never pointing a gun at someone you don’t intend to shoot or justifiably threaten to, is not a legal requirement, I think. It’s a safety rule.
Now there were three or four people who had an opportunity yo check to see if the gun was not loaded: the armorer, the key grip, the assistant director, and the actor. The actor (Alec Baldwin, who’s no gun expert) relied on what he was told by the assistant director, the assistant director probably relied on what he was tld by the key grip, the key grip relied on what he or she was told by the armorer, and the armorer probably relied on the fact that she’d checked all the guns maybe the previous night and they were where she left them..
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/27/2021 @ 7:36 am@108 and @109
It’s an issue of the standard of care and negligence.
A reasonable standard of care involves not pointing guns at people and pulling the trigger and checking whether the gun is loaded. This is basic firearms safety.
If you are going to point a gun at people and pull the trigger you should be operating at a higher standard of care. Alec didn’t meet the normal standard and he certainly didn’t operate at the level he should have been.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/27/2021 @ 8:32 amI think Alec Baldwin didn’t understand what was necessary to make sure a gun is not loaded. He didn’t have a good natural sense of safety. He thought he could take care of it by asking someone. But there were too many people around.
It’s like working with electricity. Before tampering with the wires, you need to make doubly sure the wires are not live. Most people don’t trust themselves to know what to do, though and leave that to a professional electrician or someone who’s done this kind of work before.
A difference here between electricity and a gun is that, in the case of electricity, it’s usually the person who makes the decision it is OK – who touches the wires – who is the one who will get hurt if he;s wrong. his maybe tends to make people more careful.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/27/2021 @ 9:05 amI think also it was maybe not necessary for that bit of practice for the director of photography to be positioned just where she was. She could have been some place, where, if by some law of Murphy, the gun was loaded, it wouldn’t hurt her.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/27/2021 @ 9:09 amSammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/27/2021 @ 9:05 am
I don’t understand your point Sammy.
Just from what you’ve said I think there are a couple of people with civil liability and Baldwin is criminally liable.
Are you saying something else?
frosty (f27e97) — 10/27/2021 @ 10:23 amI guess you missed the 10/24/2021 Doonesbury comic strip mocking the deaths of conservative radio hosts from COVID. But we’re supposed to play nice? I’m tired of two sets of rules in political (and social) engagement that demeans me for doing with regressives are already doing.
coregis (638b71) — 10/27/2021 @ 11:02 amThe question is, how reasonable was it that Baldwin thought it was a prop gun? Second, why would an unsupervised “real” gun be placed on set? Are actors trained to first inspect a weapon….or is this the responsibility of the armourer….and the director/studio operator to ensure that everyone followed clear rules? Baldwin’s liability…in my opinion….depends on what rules were in place and what was a reasonable assumption. If there were only ever prop guns on set….and he was told it was a prop gun….and there was little expectation of there being a real gun…his liability would seem to be reduced. It will be more difficult to excuse the armourer (THIS is literally her job)….and the rules put in place by the studio (if there was a general cavalier attitude about discharging weapons). I’m no fan of Baldwin…he comes across as more than an a$$….but we shouldn’t assume conclusions
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 10/27/2021 @ 11:09 am@115 no, that’s not the question
prop guns can be lethal
you don’t point a gun at others, even if it’s a prop gun
“There’s basic safety measures on every set,” said Mike Tristano, an armourer who has worked with Alec Baldwin in the past.
“You never point a gun, even if it is not a firing gun, at anyone else. I’m at a loss how this could have happened and how it could have done that much damage.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59006905
JF (e1156d) — 10/27/2021 @ 11:28 am@115
All people should be expected to check a weapon before pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger. This is a very reasonable standard. It is also a standard that is easy to meet. If Baldwin would have done that this person would still be alive.
By his own prior statements Baldwin knows that guns are dangerous. He knows that he can kill someone if he points a loaded gun at someone and pulls the trigger. He knows or should know how to handle them safely if he is going to handle them. Isn’t an accidental killing the plot of the movie? Doesn’t the story involve killing people with guns?
Baldwin is also the producer of the film. He knows or should have known what type of guns were on set. He knows or should have known the rules. He is part of the chain responsible for putting effective rules in place and making sure they are followed.
There have been other allegations of the guns on set being a safety issue on earlier occasions. He knew or should have known about those safety issues if they existed.
There’s no evidence that he was told it was a “prop gun”. He was told it was a “cold gun”. There is no evidence there is anything but real guns on set.
What is the reasoning behind him not needing to check that the gun was loaded? It takes a couple of seconds. It’s easy. It’s a matter of life and death.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/27/2021 @ 11:56 amI have read more and I got some guesses about the details wrong, and some details aren’t being clearly talked about. All the usual protocols about guns weren’t followed. The armorer is supposed to personally hand over the gun to the talent, and not the assistant director, who is also the chief safety officer.
When it is handed over, it is supposed to be checked in front of the actor, who should know what it is.
The assistant director picked one of three guns to hand to Alec Baldwin so the armorer probably wasn’t even there.
Against that, Alec Baldwin probably didn’t even know what the standard safety protocols used now in the movie industry were supposed to be, although he apparently hired people for all the standard safety jobs. They must have had a list.
There are details about the guns and ammunition found by the search warrant. They are trying to determine all sorts of things.
The gun is being called a prop gun. It was a genuine standard but antique gun that fit the time period of the movie. Hollywood is good (avoiding anachronisms) about pictures; not about characters, plot and dialogue.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/27/2021 @ 11:58 amThere should NEVER be a live round on set. Period. The lady was killed by a live round, not some sort of prop round. I agree that Baldwin should have clearly understood what would happen when he pulled that trigger…live round or not (or dummy cartridge)…but this is a question of law and most likely a prop round…or whatever Baldwin reasonably thought would discharge or wouldn’t discharge….would not have been lethal (the gun that killed Brandon Lee was supposed to have a deactivated cartridge but the primer was not de-activated). Obviously his jeopardy increases if he reasonably knew any sort of higher velocity projectile was coming out of that gun. The point is, what was the expectation? Was the expectation that this would be a cap gun that just made a sound or not? What can be proven.
The armorer and prop master are responsible for the gun handoff…and the assistant director enforces safety rules. This asst director was known to be lax about safety rules. A live round being on set was gross negligence….there’s no excuse.
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:02 pm@119: “There should NEVER be a live round on set. Period.”
You should NEVER point a gun at another person. Period.
You should NEVER assume a gun in your hand is “cold” without checking it yourself. Period.
the armourer, AD, producers and the shooter exhibited negligence and a lack of due caution and circumspection. See @104
i really don’t understand this effort to absolve the shooter
JF (e1156d) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:12 pmAlec Baldwin pointed the gun at the camera.
But there were people in the line of fire behind the camera.
Alec Baldwin thought he knew something he didn’t.
JF (e1156d) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:12 pm
Because it was clearly not intentional, or even intentionally careless.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:22 pmevery effective safety protocol involves layers of safeguards, so that if one fails the others ensure a safe outcome
those putting the blame on the armourer are expecting he/she to never make a mistake
it appears she was negligent, but the other safeguards failed too
the assistant director negligently didn’t confirm the gun was cold
the shooter negligently didn’t check the gun, and negligently pointed the gun at others
if any one of them exercises basic due diligence, the tragedy doesn’t happen
JF (e1156d) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:27 pm@121 sammy, not checking the gun yourself and pointing the gun at others is intentionally careless
probably every drunk driver never intended to mow their victims down
so what?
negligence has nothing to do with intent
JF (e1156d) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:30 pmYou should NEVER point a gun at another person. Period.
The script called for the gun to be drawn and aimed at the camera. The victims were behind the camera. The rest of it is negligence, but Badwin was actually blameless on this part.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:36 pmAnyone who put a live round in a set gun is more than negligent. If the armorer allowed people to use the guns for target shooting, I’d call that “reckless disregard.” If someone put a live round in there intentionally, it’s a whole different matter.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:38 pmABQ Journal story today:
Affidavit: Gun not properly checked before fatal movie set shooting
Search warrant
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/27/2021 @ 12:42 pm@124 blameless?
i don’t believe carving out an actors’ exception to basic gun safety guidelines is a good idea
i would expect anyone holding a gun, including actors, to recognize a dangerous situation regardless of what the script says
otherwise, you’re removing necessary safeguards and asking for what happened
JF (e1156d) — 10/27/2021 @ 1:00 pmJF @127
I think the law depends on someone’s subjective frame of mind.
It wasn’t the script – it was practicing cross draws – maybe to see how he could do it, and maybe for the camera. Alec Baldwin was rehearsing a scene in which he was pull a gun while sitting in a church pew. He was to point it at the camera.
That rule is not the law, and he was relying on someone else in a business. He’s not alone, which is the situation for which that safety rule was created..
They don’t quite trust the actor to check it himself anyway. I mean he could fire it while checking.
The armorer is supposed to check it in front of the actor. The Wal Street Journal has two versions of how it is done.
Chandler Cornblum, vice president of Movie Armaments Group based in Toronto, says they show the chamber, bore and magazine and the actor has to signal that they accept that the gun is empty. Only then do they hand him the gun.
Another version: (from the same person)
The armorer shines a flashlight into the gun barrel to show the actor that it is safe and what it is loaded with: Empty or blanks or dummy rounds. (I think the last two are different words for the same thing)
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 10/27/2021 @ 1:42 pmAlthough people in charge were careless, somebody probably did something they weren’t supposed to do. I don;t think anybody was supposed to take the movie set’s guns and load it with their own bullets and stage acompetition in shooting beer cans. There was live ammo and blank rounds stored in the place where there had been target practce. That was probably not where the movie kept the guns.
The interesting thing is this was the third time guns had been accidently fired on this movie set. Somebody had to know things were wrong.
And the assistant director had been fired from a previous movie set in 2019 after another “unexpected” gun discharge.
Some people quit or turned down the job because they were worried about safety. It was too slapdash.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/578453-prop-master-says-he-turned-down-job-on-rust-because-it-was
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/veteran-prop-master-turned-down-rust-over-massive-red-flags/
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 10/27/2021 @ 1:54 pmBlanks are cartridge cases with primer and powder but no bullet; dummy rounds have neither primer nor powder, only the external appearance of a cartridge, basically realistic toy “bullets” like kids have with their cowboy outfits.
nk (1d9030) — 10/27/2021 @ 1:55 pmDave Halls, the assistant director had pulled the gun off a rolling cart. It was one of three there. He’s now been fired This is apparently the persoon the script superviser complained about in a 911 call. He kept yelling about revisions – leaned over her desk.
The people hired had also complained about long hours, wages, and the fact that they had been promised free lodging in Santa Fe but instead were given a place to stay in Albuquerque (50 miles away)
Filming had began on October 6
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 10/27/2021 @ 2:01 pmWhoever mixed live rounds with the props and whoever loaded a live round in the gun is guilty of murder.
nk (1d9030) — 10/27/2021 @ 6:09 pmFind the person who brought the killing bullet on site.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/28/2021 @ 2:25 amTit for tat is fair play. If you don’t hit back you’ll be abused over and over again.
ingot9455 (b371f2) — 10/29/2021 @ 10:31 am153. The armorer says she has no idea where it came from,
Which is consistent with them doing plinking behind her back.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/29/2021 @ 2:16 pm128.
The New York Post on Thursday had a different protocol of what was supposed to be.
The armorer loads it and checks the gun barrel.
When it is time to use the gun, the armorershows the gun to the assistant director and spins the barrel.
The assistant director checks for any obstructions.
If all is clear, he yells cold gun and hands it to thee actor.
The asst dir said he could only remember seeing three rounds. (He didn’t check the whole barrel evidently)
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/29/2021 @ 2:21 pmWhoever loaded it didn’t think he left a live round in a gun or thought it would surely be discovered.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/29/2021 @ 2:23 pmThere are a number of people with civil liability. All of them should have attorneys telling them to check their insurance.
Baldwin is criminally liable. There should be charges and he should have a criminal defense attorney preparing him for a guilty plea.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/29/2021 @ 2:34 pmThe odds of killing anyone were probably under 2%
Is that murder?
1. There might not be a bullet left in the gun.
2. It might be discovered
3. The gun might not be used
4. The gun might not be aimed at someone when a bullet was fired (this hapened two times on the set)
5. It might not kill or severely injure someone.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/29/2021 @ 2:36 pmIt’s still an unlawful killing. It’s not premeditated 1st degree murder, but it isn’t “oops” either. Drunk driving doesn’t have a high probability of killing someone each and every time, but it happens and when it does it is at least manslaughter.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/29/2021 @ 3:03 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 10/29/2021 @ 3:03 pm.
I don;t know. They usually require two separate acts of negligence to prosecute, even if it’s not legally required.
The worst mistake was taking that gun secretly, using it, and putting it back. Especially after a gun had gone off two times before, which I read in a news story (no details) I don’t think there’s any way of finding out who exactly left that bullet in that gun. Of anyone knows, they’re not telling. And you could also blame anyone who kept the secret of the gun being borrowed” (unless this was known) and didn’t tell the armorer.
Also Alec Baldwin because he could know that “Cold gun” wasn’t necessarily accurate.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/31/2021 @ 3:51 amHannah Gutierre had two jobs. That probably didn’t let her babysit the guns, at least noot after the day started. Now she’s blaming the producers for an unsafe set. (or rather, her lawyers are)
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-breaks-silence-153507790.html
She was also careless. At her previous movie, in August, in Montana, which was her first, she got actor Nicholas Cage angry because she fired off a gun – twice – without announcing it. He screamed, using vulgarity, that it hurt his hearing. Then he found out it was her first job as armorer. I suppose she learned not to do that.
I’m not sure much of that training she claimed was missing would be relevant to the question of this gun being loaded.
There’s another thing, which may not be relevant. Her boyfriend had a DWI conviction and was required to only operate vehicles with a breathalyzer. Last November, they and a male friend of theirs was drinking at some event. She gave her boyfriend the keys to her motorcycle and the two men drove off aand their fiend got killed – that’s how we know about it.
Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 10/31/2021 @ 6:56 amUpdates:
Alec Baldwin was even more careless than you might think. He was not about to test shoot a scene when he picked up that gun:
https://nypost.com/2021/11/01/halnya-hutchins-last-words-revealed-after-being-shot-by-alec-baldwin
Baldwin just picked up the gun and pulled the trigger, unexpectedly. Halnya Hutchins had no chance to get out of the way, and if this hasd been prepared she might have gone off to a side, just as an extra precaution.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 4:34 pmNow the armorer may not have closely examined the buullets she put in the gun
https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/hannah-gutierrez-reeds-attorney-suggests-rust-crew-sabotaged-set
I can think of a simpler reason.
Just like they borrowed and returned the guns, they borrowed bullets. At fist thinking they were real, orgood enough to use to play at shooting beer cans.
Then they put them back – but put at least one live round. The container probably was full so it had to be fillled up.
I don’t know hwo they are going to find out who did it.
It’ll have to come from a confession.
It would take a Lt. Colombo to solve this mystery.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/4/2021 @ 4:40 pm