Patterico's Pontifications

9/29/2021

Manchin Pulls the Plug on Dems’ Ambitions [Updated]

Filed under: General — JVW @ 5:29 pm



[guest post by JVW}

I have a feeling I am going to regret putting up this post when some eleventh-hour deal is struck saving the day for the Dems, but for the time being I think this is a pretty definitive response (bolded emphasis added by me):

Washington, DC – Today, U.S. Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) released the following statement about infrastructure and reconciliation negotiations.

Every Member of Congress has a solemn duty to vote for what they believe is best for the country and the American people, not their party. Respectfully, as I have said for months, I can’t support $3.5 trillion more in spending when we have already spent $5.4 trillion since last March. At some point, all of us, regardless of party must ask the simple question – how much is enough?

What I have made clear to the President and Democratic leaders is that spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs, when we can’t even pay for the essential social programs, like Social Security and Medicare, is the definition of fiscal insanity. Suggesting that spending trillions more will not have an impact on inflation ignores the everyday reality that America’s families continue pay an unavoidable inflation tax. Proposing a historic expansion of social programs while ignoring the fact we are not in a recession and that millions of jobs remain open will only feed a dysfunction that could weaken our economic recovery. This is the shared reality we all now face, and it is this reality that must shape the future decisions that we, as elected leaders, must make.

Since the beginning of this reconciliation debate, I have been consistent in my belief that any expansion of social programs must be targeted to those in need, not expanded beyond what is fiscally possible. Our tax code should be reformed to fix the flaws of the 2017 tax bill and ensure everyone pays their fair share but it should not weaken our global competitiveness or the ability of millions of small businesses to compete with the Amazons of the world. Overall, the amount we spend now must be balanced with what we need and can afford – not designed to reengineer the social and economic fabric of this nation or vengefully tax for the sake of wishful spending.

In August, I recommended we take a strategic pause to provide time to develop the right policies and to continue to monitor how the pandemic and economic factors are affecting our nation’s fiscal situation before we spend more. Throughout September, I have made it clear to all those who would listen the need to means test any new social programs so that we are helping those who need it the most, not spend for the sake of spending.

While I am hopeful that common ground can be found that would result in another historic investment in our nation, I cannot – and will not – support trillions in spending or an all or nothing approach that ignores the brutal fiscal reality our nation faces. There is a better way and I believe we can find it if we are willing to continue to negotiate in good faith.

If there is one final lesson that will continue to guide me in this difficult debate ahead it is this: America is a great nation but great nations throughout history have been weakened by careless spending and bad policies. Now, more than ever, we must work together to avoid these fatal mistakes so that we may fulfill our greatest responsibility as elected leaders and pass on a better America to the next generation.

That strikes me as a definite “No,” leaving the Dems stuck at 49 votes (I swear, Sen. Murkowski, no monkey business this time around, OK?). In case you think he is wavering, note the very dismissive tone he takes towards his President’s plan which I highlighted above in bold. Those aren’t the kind of statements a guy makes if he expects to play nice in the end. If the Kennedy family is looking for a candidate for one of their dopey “Profile in Courage” Awards, which allegedly goes to a statesman/stateswoman who bucks the zeitgeist of their party in order to do what they believe is correct, this is a pretty strong contender.

Progressives now are required to respond by junking the stupid infrastructure deal in retaliation, leaving the Biden-Pelosi-Schumer Axis of Banal without any sort of substantive success that they can point to in this first year. The only other option is for progressives to fold their tent and accept their status as junior members of the coalition, and I would imagine that the egos of Comrade Senator, Lieawatha, Shelly WhitesClub, Our Neiman-Marxist Niece, the Congresswoman from Hezbollah, and the Minneapolis-St. Polygamist are way too fragile to accept humiliation of that magnitude. But they’re politicians — some of them professionally even — so you never know.

Joe Manchin would make a fine Vice-Presidential nominee on a sane third-party ticket. The top slot on my dream ticket is yet to be named, but I have a pretty good idea of whom I would like to see.

UPDATE 8:36 pm: According to NRO, Manchin is also demanding that any expansion of Obamacare in the reconciliation bill must restore the Hyde Amendment. It sounds like another nail in the coffin for reconciliation, as it is nearly impossible to imagine House progressive agreeing with this. And it also sounds more and more like Manchin is going to end up a Republican by Thanksgiving weekend, doesn’t it?

– JVW

74 Responses to “Manchin Pulls the Plug on Dems’ Ambitions [Updated]”

  1. I wonder how Angus King, the independent Senator from Maine, feels about all of this. On the one hand, he is co-sponsoring with his fellow New Englander Sen. Fauxcahontas a measure to impose a 7% tax on all corporate profits in excess of $100 million, so he’s got that populist thing working for him. On the other hand, he’s pissed off the hard left of his state by not demanding that Schumer overrule the Senate parliamentarian and put the Dems’ immigration plans back in the bill.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  2. There is a good chance both bills will go down to defeat for now.

    They could genuinely try to work with Republicans across the board, but this might limit some fundraising opportunities.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  3. I wouldn’t mind seeing a bipartisan third-party ticket.

    Find a sane Republican and a sane Democrat who are willing to work, and govern, as a team tackling issues that we have neglected. Like cutting our bloated budget, beginning to pay down our unsustainable debt, repairing and maintaining our (actual) infrastructure, and restoring our reputation as a defender of freedom and a champion of human rights.

    Romney/Manchin 2024?

    Demosthenes (3fd56e)

  4. Romney/Manchin 2024?

    Romney’s too old; he was already a failed nominee; and he’s too strongly identified as a Republican. I think it might be someone like Doug Ducey in Arizona, perhaps. It would have to be someone who isn’t strongly identified with Trump, just as the Democrat would need to be independent of Obama/Biden and especially the Sanders wing.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  5. JVW,

    Little Aloha Sweetie is firmly among the Broaddrick-McGowan-Blagojevich pantheon now…3rd party my aesch!

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  6. By the way: I’ll offer a shiny new George Washington quarter to whomever can find the first blue-check Twitter journalist who blames the Dems’ inability to reach an agreement on the GOP. I’m sure there has already been several.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  7. But certainly invite the George statewide office incumbents.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  8. JVW wrote:

    Joe Manchin would make a fine Vice-Presidential nominee on a sane third-party ticket. The top slot on my dream ticket is yet to be named, but I have a pretty good idea of whom I would like to see.

    That’s a sure way to lose.

    The presidential winner in every state is the plurality winner, and you can count on either the Democratic or Republican nominee in every state to get 40% of the vote. With a strong third party, 40% will be the plurality winner.

    The Libertarian Party has, officially, been around since 1971. In that time, they haven’t elected a single member of Congress, a single Governor, or single state legislator. They have managed to get a couple of county water board members and dog catchers elected.

    The short-lived “reform Party,” which was never a party at all, managed to get clown candidate Jesse Ventura elected as Governor of Minnesota, but that was it.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  9. By the way, Joe Manchin’s Senate seat is up for re-election in 2024, so I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t want to run for President or Vice President on a sure-to-lose third party line that year.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  10. JVW commented:

    Romney’s too old; he was already a failed nominee; and he’s too strongly identified as a Republican. I think it might be someone like Doug Ducey in Arizona, perhaps. It would have to be someone who isn’t strongly identified with Trump, just as the Democrat would need to be independent of Obama/Biden and especially the Sanders wing.

    That’s the part I don’t think a lot of people here get: whether Donald Trump runs in 2024 or not, he has converted the Republican Party in what so many of its voters wanted it to be: a populist party. Nominating the next George Bush isn’t going to inspire the party’s voters.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  11. The presidential winner in every state is the plurality winner, and you can count on either the Democratic or Republican nominee in every state to get 40% of the vote. With a strong third party, 40% will be the plurality winner.

    Maybe. But Ross Perot voters managed in 1992 to end a period in which Republicans controlled the White House for 20 out of 24 years and then just two years later end 40 years of dominance by the Democrats in the House of Representatives. That’s how third party candidates make things happen in this country. A Little Aloha Sweetie/Manchin ticket would probably hurt Dems a bit more in 2024 than it would the GOP, just as a Baker/Brewer (awesome name for a ticket!) combo would hurt the GOP a bit more than it would Dems, even though there would be significant overlap of appeal to both.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  12. Either of those tickets I’d vote for, actually. I disagree with Gabbard on several important issues, but at least she has proven willing to listen to good-faith counterarguments, and she has not (yet) been an embarrassment to the country.

    Demosthenes (fdbac3)

  13. UPDATE 8:36 pm: According to NRO, Manchin is also demanding that any expansion of Obamacare in the reconciliation bill must restore the Hyde Amendment. It sounds like another nail in the coffin for reconciliation, as it is nearly impossible to imagine House progressive agreeing with this. And it also sounds more and more like Manchin is going to end up a Republican by Thanksgiving weekend, doesn’t it?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  14. BREAKING: House GOP members blast the Federal Reserve for promoting “critical race theory,” “critical climate justice,” and “decolon[izing] the atmosphere,” while inflation erodes the national finances.

    The members have demanded documents and launched an investigation.

    Who doesn’t want to decolonize the atmosphere?

    Obudman (18ecb6)

  15. The Libertarian Party has, officially, been around since 1971. In that time, they haven’t elected a single member of Congress, a single Governor, or single state legislator.

    None currently but they there have been some in the New Hampshire state legislator.

    Mattsky (55d339)

  16. vengefully tax for the sake of wishful spending

    This will have legs.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. Joe Manchin would make a fine Vice-Presidential nominee on a sane third-party ticket.

    Paul Ryan/Joe Manchin

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. I think the “progressive” (a word that sounds so much better than “radical Leftist”) response is to scuttle everything, including the debt limit increase. Get Biden to quit in favor of someone who might help them with their bomb-throwing. That debt-limit thing only helps people with money and investments, right?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. That’s a sure way to lose.

    Yes, but what is your point? Winning with Trump is a worse loss. At least with a new second party (bye, GOP) you have something to work with. There is no future for the GOP after Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. @8: That’s what the Whigs told Fremont.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. he has converted the Republican Party in what so many of its voters

    They aren’t the same voters. The ones who nominated and worked for Bushn voted for BIden, Trump was that terrible.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. “Paul Ryan/Joe Manchin”

    That would get my vote….Ryan’s a smart thoughtful guy. It would be hard to win with the GOP vote fractured, but a lot of moderates would have a sane option….and I could see that gain traction. If the choice is Harris or Biden….and Trump….the door would be wide open for another option…with a different tone and coherent message. Trump will just offer more clown car….and Harris/Biden inspired no one….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  23. mittens and the punk ryan have no chance.
    You people will be voting worse than Trump, so predictable.
    Ryan is a lying pos, ran on appealing obama care. mittens is a quitter, he stunk in Ma. as govna, not as bad as the puke we have now, but close.
    cheney/cheney/2024

    mg (8cbc69)

  24. It’s hard to find a person worse than Trump, mg. When somebody does what Trump did (gaslights the citizenry in a thuggish attempt to stay in power), let me know.

    Your devotion to Trump is very puzzling. It’s not a good idea to ever fall in love with a politician.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  25. Well, at least we had an all-adult discussion for over twenty comments. That’s rare around here these days.

    Demosthenes (fdbac3)

  26. mg, I think you mean “repealing” Obamacare….but how exactly did Ryan lie? It was impossible to repeal Obamacare without 60 votes in the Senate (where Ryan wasn’t even a member)….and the GOP never had that. This was more Talk Radio furor…like the Wall….that built unrealistic expectations of what is possible politically. Then people like mg sit around butt hurt. Ryan is smart, personable, experienced, decent, and articulate. All the things Trump is not. Voters like mg simply want more clown car…because in for a penny, in for a dollar….

    As for Romney….an objective analysis of what a Republican governor did in a VERY liberal state with a VERY liberal legislature….is still impressive…especially in terms of controlling the budget. mg just hates Romney because he stood up to Trump and hasn’t bent the knee. Class, brains, experience, and decency…..yep….I see why mg despises him. Trumpism lost the Presidency, House, and Senate….and several governorships…..the Party can’t figure out why the Big Lie isn’t working….but mg remains a faithful disciple of gutter politics and personality worship. Dude, you know he doesn’t give a sh*t about you, right?

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  27. A lump or a cyst will be “found” for a Prez Harris, but one that won’t show up until right before the 2024 DNC. Last Friday’s View COVID test brouhaha was a dry run. If she governs more as Eugene Sawyer or dare we hope David Paterson rather than David Dinkins during the 2+ years of that presidency, consider it a blessing

    urbanleftbehind (f16a4a)

  28. Lemme ax you: What’s the political downside for a former Secretary of State, former Governor, 14-year Senator, and Robert Byrd successor, opposing Biden’s Politburo in a state which Trump carried by 69% to Biden’s 29% in the last election?

    nk (1d9030)

  29. JVW updated:

    According to NRO, Manchin is also demanding that any expansion of Obamacare in the reconciliation bill must restore the Hyde Amendment. It sounds like another nail in the coffin for reconciliation, as it is nearly impossible to imagine House progressive agreeing with this. And it also sounds more and more like Manchin is going to end up a Republican by Thanksgiving weekend, doesn’t it?

    Senator Manchin had plenty of opportunities to switch to the GOP when it would have benefitted him personally, with a subcommittee chairmanship, and he didn’t do it.

    He’s an old line Democrat, from the time when Democrats actually had some sense; there’s an ingrained loyalty there that’s difficult to change.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  30. Mattsky wrote:

    The Libertarian Party has, officially, been around since 1971. In that time, they haven’t elected a single member of Congress, a single Governor, or single state legislator.

    None currently but they there have been some in the New Hampshire state legislator.

    I know of three who were in the NH state House, but all three were elected as Republicans, and then switched; none of the three were re-elected, though I cannot say whether they were defeated for re-election, or chose not to run again.

    Technically Justin Amash, in the United States House of Representatives was a registered Libertarian, but he won all of his elections as a Republican, and he didn’t even try to run again after he switched to the Libertarian Party.

    That’s why my usual handle is “The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana,” because the Libertarian Party is not just useless, but worse than useless.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  31. BTW, interesting fact I found when looking up West Virginia (which you all probably already knew but never told me), is that it was the second state to be formed from another state. Maine was the first. Mitosed from Massachusetts in 1820 as the Missouri Compromise.

    nk (1d9030)

  32. Some guy from Chicago wrote:

    Lemme ax you: What’s the political downside for a former Secretary of State, former Governor, 14-year Senator, and Robert Byrd successor, opposing Biden’s Politburo in a state which Trump carried by 69% to Biden’s 29% in the last election?

    It’s not only that there’s no downside, but there’d be no upside for supporting it. Senator Manchin is the last statewide elected Democrat in the Mountain State.

    Governor Jim Justice had been a Republican, but he switched to the Democratic Party for his 2016 gubernatorial campaign, because he did not believe he could win the Republican nomination. He won, and seven months later switched back to the GOP. Mr Justice is a tax cheat, owing millions in back taxes to Kentucky.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  33. There’s not a whole — I understand that, Bret. But I’m still a proud West Virginia Democrat who loves my proud West Virginia Republicans. We get along. At least we used to. I hope they don’t push us apart.

    But I intend to stay where I’m at. I can work. I’m very comfortable. And we will just have to see what happens. But I’m — the pressure doesn’t mean — I’m too old to be pressured. My goodness, what are they going to do to me?

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/01/11/manchin_on_changing_parties_im_a_good_old_west_virginia_conservative_democrat.html

    nk (1d9030)

  34. nk wrote:

    BTW, interesting fact I found when looking up West Virginia (which you all probably already knew but never told me), is that it was the second state to be formed from another state. Maine was the first. Mitosed from Massachusetts in 1820 as the Missouri Compromise.

    My mother was from Maine.

    However, Alabama and Mississippi were created from the Mississippi Territory, and several states have parts which were originally from the Republic of Texas.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  35. Oregon was carved put of a bigger territory, ad Dakota territory was split in two in 1889 in order to add to the Republican majority in the Senate and there are other examples (the Northwest Territories for example) but Maine and West Virginia are the only two states created out of part of an already existing state that was represented in Congress.

    I asked about how West Virginia was done legally, and it was apparently by the legislature of West Virginia calling itself the legislature of Virginia, so that way Virginia gave permission (and it was not considered to have consented simply because it had seceded.)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  36. In lists of state facts, West Virginia is listed as having been admitted to the Union in 1863, and sometime in the period 1974-1976 there was a “Bicentennial Minute” on TV that made the mistake of assuming that before 1863 it was not part of a state,

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  37. Provided he merely retires after his current term, Manchin appears well preserved enough to raise hay a la Zell Miller at a future 2028 GOP or National Populist convention

    urbanleftbehind (f16a4a)

  38. Summarizing and paraphrasing what I heard on the radio this morning on WOR:

    Sean Spicer said that Desantis is the front runner if Trump doesn’t run and is competitive even if he does run, and there’s a big bench: Mike Pompeo, Nikki Hayley, Mike Pence and he mentioned one or two others.

    He said that Biden looks like he is planing on running – and that he would indicate that regardless because otherwise he becomes a lame duck, but he personally doesn’t see him running.

    He says many Democrats think that Pete Buttigieg should be the successor to Joe Biden rather than Kamala Harris. About Buttigieg he’s not taking about what he thinks, but about what Democrats he’s in contact with think: he was in the military, he’s a good speaker, he ran for president once and he was a mayor. (I thought maybe they also like that he has a personal characteristic that might make it easier for them to bypass Kamala Harris.)

    One problem with making Buttigieg a candidate that they don’t think about: A member of the Cabinet is now precluded from engaging in politics. It can’t be like the early days of the Republic (after Jefferson) or like Taft in 1908 or Hoover in 1928, or like Eisenhower suggested about Richard Nixon before the 1956 election.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  39. It would be a no worries…Sec Trans is kind of a throwaway post, and the Dems can revisit the recent history of the post being filled by a token opposition party member (Mineta, LaHood) from late ’23 onward, perhaps one of the 3 outgoing NT govs (sorry, mg) or soon to be primaried/remapped US reps.

    urbanleftbehind (f16a4a)

  40. The District of Kentucky: Fayette, Jefferson, and Lincoln (all formerly part of Kentucky County) sought on numerous occasions to split from Virginia, beginning in the 1780s. Ten constitutional conventions were held in the Constitution Square Courthouse in Danville between 1784 and 1792. In 1790, Kentucky’s delegates accepted Virginia’s terms of separation, and a state constitution was drafted at the final convention in April 1792. The Virginia General Assembly adopted legislation on December 18, 1789, separating its “District of Kentucky” from the rest of the State and approving its statehood.[50] Kentucky became the 15th state in the Union on June 1, 1792.

    In 1784, the western counties of Greene, Washington, Sullivan, and parts of Hawkins County, formed the provisional State of Franklin, with Revolutionary War hero John Sevier as governor. However, since the state was not recognized by the Congress of the Confederation, it disbanded and joined North Carolina. In 1790, North Carolina relinquished the region to the federal government, creating the Southwest Territory. In 1796, the territory would be admitted to the Union as the State of Tennessee, with Sevier as its first governor.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  41. I have a name for the new party, the one for all the regular Republicans the Trumpist drove out: The RINO Party.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. He’s an old line Democrat, from the time when Democrats actually had some sense; there’s an ingrained loyalty there that’s difficult to change.

    But not impossible. I’m told that Reagan voted for FDR four times.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. Libertarian Party is not just useless, but worse than useless.

    Their motto should be “electing Democrats since 1972”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. Gotta say this looks like a nearly complete win. Only way for it to improve would be if the progs folded and put the moderates in ascendancy

    Time123 (213142)

  45. 43, somebody should mint a t-shirt of that motto, Mr. M. It would be an instant classic like this one meme I might wear the next weekend:

    https://www.teepublic.com/magnet/11731647-the-original-homeland-security-fighting-terrorism-

    urbanleftbehind (f16a4a)

  46. Mr M wrote:

    He’s an old line Democrat, from the time when Democrats actually had some sense; there’s an ingrained loyalty there that’s difficult to change.

    But not impossible. I’m told that Reagan voted for FDR four times.

    Mr Reagan once said that he didn’t leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left him.

    One of the things to remember, as the South has gone Republican, is that it isn’t that most Democrats became Republicans, but that their children became Republicans.

    Remember Kim Davis, the Rowan County, Kentucky, Clerk, who refused to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples? She was elected as a Democrat.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  47. There are a number of states that could benefit from splits today, California being the most obvious. What is important though is that any splits be aimed at fixing dysfunction rather than just extending it.

    For example, California is dominated by coastal megalopolises, with cultural minorities inland given short shrift. There are also significant differences between the northern coast and the southern coast.

    Texas, Florida, New York and Illinois have similar cultural minorities dominated by a metropolis. At some point there may be a Grand Deal where a number of state splits happen all at once, along the lines of the great Compromises of the antebellum era.

    Which, it should be pointed out, did not work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. Only way for it to improve would be if the progs folded and put the moderates in ascendancy

    Better would be for the progs to purge their party of the “DINOs.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. OT: I see in the proposed LA City Council reapportionment maps that the 15 seats on the coucil will be dominated by Hispanics. Eight of the proposed districts will have Hispanic majorities, with 2 more being at least 40% Hispanic.

    If you count voters, instead of residents, it drops to 6 districts with majority Hispanics, but 4 more have 30% or more Hispanic voters. This makes domination of the city by Hispanics likely for the foreseeable future.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. Opposition to Sinema and demonstrations in front of her office are a New York Times front page story today.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/29/us/kyrsten-sinema-voters.html

    When Ms. Sinema famously gave a thumbs down to a $15 minimum wage and refused to eliminate the filibuster to pass new voting rights laws this year, Ms. Duran, a Democrat and biomedical engineer from Phoenix, decided she was fed up. She joined dozens of liberal voters and civil rights activists in a rolling series of protests outside Ms. Sinema’s Phoenix offices, which have been taking place since the summer. Nearly 50 people have been arrested….

    ….While the Senate Democrats’ other high-profile holdout, Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, has publicly outlined his concerns with key elements of the Democratic agenda in statements to swarms of reporters, Ms. Sinema has been far more enigmatic and has largely declined to issue public comments.,,,

    They are a minority – especially the ones who demonstrate to the point of being arrested.

    Yet they can feel they elected her with an idea of what she would do, so they could have a right to be disappointed.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  51. 39. urbanleftbehind (f16a4a) — 9/30/2021 @ 6:32 am

    Sec Trans is kind of a throwaway post, and the Dems can revisit the recent history of the post being filled by a token opposition party member (Mineta, LaHood) from late ’23 onward,

    Late 2023 would be considered too late to begin raising money.

    Even someone with as great name recognition as Vice President Joe Biden came to the conclusion that late in the year before the election, that is 2015, would be too late to get started.

    Under current campaign finance laws only millionaires and billionaires can jump in that late – which is early actually before the field shapes up.

    And that is why we have such bad candidates.

    July in Y-1 is maybe about as late as it can start, and better yet, no later than April or May.

    Against that, maybe Biden was wrong in 2915 – and he was getting told first that he had more time and then that it was too late.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  52. “Saule Omarova, Biden’s pick for Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, wants to take all of your private deposits and put them in the Fed.

    She even calls it The People’s Ledger. They don’t even try to hide it.

    The next part, where she wants to use your money to “channel credit to productive uses in the nation’s economy,” is probably even more disturbing, given how literally no one paying attention trusts the federal govt to do that.“

    https://twitter.com/pudgenet/status/1440871081355530243?s=21

    “Now that’s what I call controlling the means of production.”

    There are conservatives who voted for this.

    Obudman (18ecb6)

  53. There are conservatives who voted for this.

    Coocoo conspiracy tweets? Not me. I voted against them.

    nk (1d9030)

  54. There are lots of different criticisms of lots of Biden’s would-be policies. The Wall Street Journal and the New York Post have run a number of editorials about different elements.

    Jonah Goldberg says that Joe Biden (as well as the base of the Dmocratic Party, but they don’t care) can’t “read the room”

    In other words, that he has a very bad sense of reality.

    His favorite example comes from 20 years ago, just after the September 11, 2001 attacks. (his source: Michael Crowley in the New Republic.)

    Joe Biden had assembled his Senate staff and began thinking aloud about what to do.

    He said he was groping.

    Then he came up with the idea of sending a check tor $200 million to Iran, with no strings attached, to assure the Arab world that the United States wasn’t bent on its destruction.

    There are several things wrong with this idea:

    1) It assumed that Iran was behind the Sept 11, 2001 attacks.

    2) It assumed that Iran was an Arab country, which it wasn’t.

    3) t assumed that the motive was some form of defense, at least in the minds of the plotters.

    Now in a sense that might ave been true, because the Taliban was trying to get rid of the opposition (then being helped mostly by India) and if they saw that the United States did nothing much after seeing its military headquarters attacked then they would give up hope of American aid.)

    4) A one time check is the wrong way to send a gift/bribe. The right way would be to send $10 million every two weeks until they got used to it, and then have them afraid if it being cut off.

    Staffers offered a number of objections, but Joe Biden dropped the anyway.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  55. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    Jonah Goldberg says that Joe Biden (as well as the base of the Dmocratic Party, but they don’t care) can’t “read the room”

    I’d say that the Democrats can read the room, have read the room, and can count. They know that the party controlling the White House normally loses congressional seats in the midterm elections, and with 220 Democrats, 212 Republicans and three vacancies, They don’t have room to lose many seats to lose them all. With redistricting, and extra seats going to states with Republican led state legislatures, the Democrats fear that to get the communist ‘progressive’ agenda passed, they have to do it now.

    Remember, Barack Hussein Obama got the porkulus plan and Obysmalcare passed in 2009-2010, and thereafter lost control of the House of Representatives.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (fcc309)

  56. It assumed that the motive was some form of defense,

    “Tribute” is a form of defense.

    Again, Joe Biden could be played on TV by Xander Berkeley, as he so ably demonstrated in The Walking Dead.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. They lost control of the House of Representatives because of Obysmalcare. They didn’t expect to, and I think deliberately did nothing about the exchanges which they treated as if it were a given states would set them up. (they wanted not to count administrative expenses)

    I read that the cap on income for subsidies for Obamacare policies in the exchanges or on healthcare.gov has been lifted, after first going to annual income of 400% of poverty.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  58. The vote seems like it is shaping up like this; At least 50 Democrats will not vote for the small infrastreucure bill. Normally, if you go by the Senate, about 40% or 80 Republicans would vote for it. They are going to get less

    Senate Republicans are urging a yes vote and some Senate Democrats,like Bernie Sanders, a no vote on the House floor.

    Some votes will be cast in favor only if it is necessary for the bill to pass. (but then aybe they might lose some on the other side?)

    They need something like 35 or 45 house Republicans. They are trying too get 26 members of the “Problem Solver’s” caucus to vote for it and I suppose the 10 Never Trumpers might be counted on.

    The Speaker is trying to make it look like there is progress toward getting the big infrastructure bill in order to not lose votes for the small one.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  59. Trump should come out and support both bills.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. Congress passed a continuing resolution today, but not an extension of lifting of the debt limit. Manchin gave a number. (he’ll take a second bill with $1.5 billion in it, no more)

    https://www.newser.com/story/311672/senate-votes-to-avert-closure-manchin-reveals-number.html

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  61. 80 minutes to go. Will Pelosi make it?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. The continuing resolution passed both houses.

    Voting or debate or discussion off the floor of the other bills can go past midnight without affecting anything.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  63. This just in – no vote tonight.

    (On the small infrastructure bill that already passed the Senate.)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  64. I still think they should just suspend the counterfeiting laws and let us print the money ourselves. The way they’re going, the dollar will be just as worthless either way.

    nk (1d9030)

  65. Congress passed a continuing resolution today, but not an extension of lifting of the debt limit. Manchin gave a number. (he’ll take a second bill with $1.5 billion in it, no more)

    As I understand it, there is no imminent need to lift the debt ceiling. We supposedly have enough in the old Federal checking account to get us through the next two or three weeks. I think that McConnell is trying to force the Dems to deal with the debt ceiling issue right at the same time that they try to ram through reconciliation, just to highlight how irresponsible this spending really is.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  66. The continuing resolution passed both houses.

    Old news. Pelosi promised her party to hold a vote on the infrastucture bill in September. It’s now October.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. I still think they should just suspend the counterfeiting laws and let us print the money ourselves.

    You aren’t yet?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. So what happens? Do both of Biden’s gotta have bills fail? Do they boot Manchin from the caucus? Or do they strip Bernie of his Committee Chairmanship? Does Pelosi resign? Or Biden?

    Obviously there is a Democrat train wreck here. My bet is that Trump will manage to unify the Democrats by interfering.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. The dept ceiling is silly. It’s never resulted in less spending. It’s just an opportunity for grandstanding and brinksmanship that no one believes will actually happen. If it did, if we defaulted on our debt, the impact would be catastrophic. The right time to reign in spending is when we vote on spending.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  70. nk (1d9030) — 9/30/2021 @ 8:07 pm

    I still think they should just suspend the counterfeiting laws and let us print the money ourselves.

    Well, that can be done now – all you have to do is make a credit card purchase. Where does the bank get the money? The bank just creates the money (of course it has to hold on to an equivalent deposit and leave a little at the federal reserve at little or no interest.) And of course you owe the money, so it;s not quite the same as printing your own money.

    Making a cash advance is even more exactly creating money.

    Money is just a statement of debts owed.

    You can also write a postdated check or loan agreement – the problem is getting it to circulate and not get cashed. Usually this can only be done by a bank.

    My Congressman, Jerrold Nadler, is in favor of minting a trillion dollar coin or two or more.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/mint-the-coin-rashida-tlaib-jerry-nadler-debt-default-mcconnell-2021-9

    https://news.yahoo.com/trillion-dollar-coin-washington-eyes-020330979.html

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  71. They have scheduled a vote for today,

    THe plan is to get enough of an agreement in principle on the big bill from 50 Senators (including, naturally, both Manchin and Synoma unless they get Murkowski) to satisfy enough of the “progressive” caucus in the House so that the small bill passes the House without losing the Republican votes they need.

    It’s got to look like that the big bill – enough of a big bill -will pass to satisfy enough of the of the progressives without looking too big or too certain to pass so that they lose votes on the other side,

    It’s getting to be very hard for Nancy Pelosi to make this all work.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  72. The debt ceiling exists for constitutional reasons. All borrowing must be authorized by Congress. If a debt ceiling rise (possibly to infinity with a cutoff date) fails to pass in time, Joe Biden may go for the trillion dollar coin(s)

    Interesting that Jerrold Nadler partnered with the worst member of the Squad. Maybe it’s so they will tolerate is being pro-Israel.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)


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