Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
You know it’s a muggy, muggy day when you live in a dry, arid region yet the humidity is so thick and high that the mosquitoes were droning by mid-morning. Which reminds me:
That buzzing you hear is likely from a female mosquito. That’s because male and female mosquitoes lead very different lives. The males typically hang out and sip on the nectar of flowers; they couldn’t care less about the humans lumbering about. The females, however, need to find a blood meal after mating in order to have enough energy to produce eggs. In fact, female mosquitoes are equipped with unique tools to home in on their next victim.
“From a distance, [female mosquitoes] cue in on carbon dioxide that we exhale in conical plumes from our bodies,” Riehle told Live Science. “The carbon dioxide stimulates the female mosquito to start host-seeking, flying back and forth to follow that concentration gradient back to the source.”
In other words, mosquitoes buzz around our heads because that’s where we expel the most carbon dioxide.
Or, in other words, with no time for a post-mating smoke or a rest period, females must madly drone around in search of a blood meal to make eggs while the spent males kick back in the flower garden drowning themselves on nectar. But hey, male mosquitos only live for two weeks, while females live for more than four weeks, so it all works out in the end.
Anyway, feel free to post anything you think might interest readers. Please make sure to include a link.
First news item
Among the booths on the CPAC Central floor is one for USATrumpStore.com. Another is called Latinos for America First. There’s a booth called the MAGA Mall. And another for something – or perhaps someone – called the Deplorabear.
“The conservative movement is firmly behind President Trump, and he is leading,” [Matt] Schlapp told Fox News. “And where people lead, and where people fight socialism, you will find millions of Americans cheering them on.”
When asked whether the GOP’s continued embrace of one man is the right direction for the party, Schlapp said that it is.
“Who got the vice president to go to the border? Donald Trump did by continuing to lead on the need to finish the wall and secure the border,” Schlapp said. “Who is the person now taking the lead in the fight against big tech? Donald Trump… If other people want to lead the party, start leading, start fighting, stop criticizing Trump.”
Schlapp added: “We’re about to have the country slip into European socialism and some Republicans just want to fight about 1/6, or Donald Trump, or Twitter, and I have no time for any of that.”
More from CPAC:
Madison Cawthorn says today that Biden’s plan to send people door to door to offer vaccines is really a plot to confiscate people’s bibles and guns. pic.twitter.com/h6CPdJwv9t
— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) July 9, 2021
Second news item
The U.S. Justice Department chose not to take up 82 percent of hate crime cases between 2005 and 2019, a new report reveals. Of the 1,548 cases that it did not prosecute, 55 percent were rejected due to insufficient evidence… A total of 1,878 suspects were investigated by the department, but only 17 percent of them were actually prosecuted, with another 1 percent dismissed by the courts. Of those brought to trial, 83 percent were convicted between 2005 and 2009, and 94 percent were convicted between 2015 and 2019. The average prison term for those convicted was 7.5 years…The findings come almost two months after Attorney General Merrick Garland announced a six-step plan to combat hate crimes in the U.S., urging the DOJ to increase resources and coordination to state, local, and tribal levels.
Third news item
My approach to public safety is shaped by a 40+ yr career in law enforcement, a lifetime of experiences that showed me first-hand that the "punishment first" & "lock ' em up" approach fails to create long term community safety.
Together we are reimagining criminal justice in LA. pic.twitter.com/jJ5XzArmcD
— George Gascón (@GeorgeGascon) July 9, 2021
A convicted felon who was caught on security video trying to break into a Van Nuys home last week proceeded to trespass into another nearby home the same night.
Robert Hemingway, who was out of town, watched security cameras from his cellphone as a man tried to get into his house last Wednesday, while his wife was home alone.
“As soon as I saw him prying with the knife, I told her she needed to call 911,” Hemingway said to KTLA…The Los Angeles Police Department responded, but Hemingway says officers told his wife that even with video evidence, they didn’t have enough to arrest the intruder.
…
Hours later, less than a mile away, Roth allegedly broke into a Vose Street apartment. He then took off his clothes and entered a bedroom where twin 12-year-old girls were sleeping…
Fourth news item
The U.S. acts on behalf of the Uyghurs:
The Biden administration added 14 Chinese companies to a trade blacklist on Friday over their alleged role in that country’s abuses of its Uighur civilians and other Muslim ethnic minorities.
The Commerce Department said in a statement that the electronics and technology firms and other businesses helped enable “Beijing’s campaign of repression, mass detention and high-technology surveillance” against Muslim minorities in Xinjiang province.
The penalties, which prohibit Americans from selling equipment or other goods to the firms, are the latest from the United States as it steps up financial and trade penalties over China’s treatment of the Uyghur people.
The Commerce Department also added to the blacklist on Friday companies that it said appeared to be assisting military programs or prohibited nuclear development in Russia, or violating trade sanctions on Iran.
Fifth news item
Just checking in on the mental state of the former president:
Speaking at a press conference in Bedminster, New Jersey, in which he announced class action lawsuits against Google, Facebook and Twitter for “censoring” conservatives, Trump was asked by a reporter what he did to “stop” the rioters on January 6…Trump claimed he wasn’t to blame for the January 6 mob and called it an “unfortunate event,” before suggesting the violence carried out by “antifa” in cities across the country last year was worse.
He then launched into an impassioned call for the officer who shot Babbitt to be investigated, claiming there was “no reason” for her to have been shot, and wrongly claiming she was shot in the “head” (Babbitt was shot in the left shoulder, the DOJ says).
If the situation were reversed, Trump claimed, without specifying what he meant, the officer who shot Babbitt would be the most “well-known” man in the “world.”
“There were no guns in the Capitol, except for the gun that shot Ashli Babbitt,” Trump claimed, but the Department of Justice has charged at least one rioter with carrying a gun onto the Capitol grounds and law enforcement officials have reported pulling firearms off many people in the Capitol building that day.
Sixth news item
President Biden confident in the Afghan military’s ability to pushback the Taliban:
Do I trust the Taliban? No. But I trust the capacity of the Afghan military, who is better trained, better equipped, and more re- — more competent in terms of conducting war.
Top US military official overseeing the withdrawal of troops not so sure:
Army Gen. Austin Scott Miller, the top US military official overseeing the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, said that there should be concern about the Taliban advances on the ground there.
“We should be concerned. The loss of terrain and the rapidity of that loss of terrain has — has to be concerning, one, because it’s a — war is physical, but it’s also got a psychological or moral component to it. And hope actually matters. And morale actually matters,” Miller said in an interview that aired Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.” “And so, as you watch the Taliban moving across the country, what you don’t want to have happen is that the people lose hope and they believe they now have a foregone conclusion presented to them.”
Miller expressed his concern about the security situation in Afghanistan and raised the potential of a civil war once US troops are gone, as the Taliban are already moving rapidly to take over districts in the northern parts of the country.
“You look at the security situation, it’s not good. The Afghans recognize it’s not good. The Taliban are on the move. We’re starting to create conditions here that won’t look good for Afghanistan in the future if there’s a push for a military takeover,” he said.
Seventh news item
Andrea Macklin never turns off his TV. It’s the only way to drown out the noise from the wood mill bordering his backyard, the jackhammer sound of the plant piercing his walls and windows. The 18-wheelers carrying logs rumble by less than 100 feet from his house, all day and night, shaking it as if an earthquake has taken over this tranquil corner of North Carolina. He’s been wearing masks since long before the coronavirus pandemic, just to keep the dust out of his lungs.
Some nights, he only sleeps for two or three hours. Breathing is a chore.
“I haven’t had proper rest since they’ve been here,” he said.
That was eight years ago, when the world’s largest biomass producer, Enviva, opened its second North Carolina facility just west of Macklin’s property in Garysburg. The operation takes mostly hardwood trees and spits out biomass, or wood pellets, a highly processed and compressed wood product burned to generate energy. Enviva is one of nearly a dozen similar companies benefiting from a sustainability commitment made 4,000 miles away, more than a decade ago.
In 2009, the European Union (EU) pledged to curb greenhouse gas emissions, urging its member states to shift from fossil fuels to renewables. In its Renewable Energy Directive (RED), the EU classified biomass as a renewable energy source — on par with wind and solar power. As a result, the directive prompted state governments to incentivize energy providers to burn biomass instead of coal — and drove up demand for wood.
So much so that the American South emerged as Europe’s primary source of biomass imports.
Eighth news item
NYT editor fired for pro-Biden tweet talks about biased/non-biased reporting:
“I’m not saying there is no implicit bias at the Times or at other newspapers, but most journalists at the top of their field are damn good at keeping it out of their news reporting. Of course, some will always seep in, but that’s not necessarily going to make the coverage misleading or inaccurate. Again, journalists are still humans,” she wrote. “Yes, I am biased. But when my work calls for me not to be, I work very hard to create unbiased journalism—that’s what a professional does.”
Ninth news item
Ah, White House to talk cannabis after all:
The White House is pushing for a meeting with the World Anti-Doping Agency to discuss loosening restrictions on the use of cannabis by athletes, after star sprinter Sha’Carri Richardson was left off the US Olympic team because she tested positive for marijuana.
The White House is seeking the meeting through the US Office of National Drug Control Policy, which has a seat on the foundation board of Wada, the international body responsible for governance of anti-doping in global sport, including the Olympic Games.
The board is next scheduled to meet on November 25, but the ONDCP told the Financial Times that, “if possible, the US will secure an earlier discussion of [cannabis policy] within Wada”.
MISCELLANEOUS
Cngratulations, Zaila Avant-Garde! She is the first African American Scripps Spelling Bee champion:
Zaila Avant-Garde wins the #spellingbee with ‘murraya’ — a type of tree 💪
— Billy Heyen (@BillyHeyen) July 9, 2021
Have a good weekend.
–Dana
Hello! So, I wanted to post a particular painting by a contemporary artist and spent close to 30 minutes googling it because I CANNOT REMEMBER THE ARTIST’S NAME. I’ve typed in every possible description, and then finally gave up because Andy Warhol’s “Triple Elvis” IS NOT THE PAINTING I WAS THINKING OF, SO STOP SENDING ME TO IT, GOOGLE!
Dana (fd537d) — 7/9/2021 @ 7:41 pmOccasionally, Bing works when Google doesn’t.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/9/2021 @ 7:49 pmHaving deployed to Afghanistan multiple times, and as I’ve said here before, the original sins were in 2003. The results we’re seeing now were perfectly predictable, and inevitable. The US was never going to put in 150k troops forever, so the best time to begin a complete drawdown, 2002, implemented over a few years. Especially without the boondoggle in Iraq.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 7/9/2021 @ 8:47 pmtrump isn’t claiming the 1/6 riots killed five people
so his mental state seems relatively good
JF (e1156d) — 7/9/2021 @ 8:48 pmCitizens, Not the State, Will Enforce New Abortion Law in Texas
People across the country may soon be able to sue abortion clinics, doctors and anyone helping a woman get an abortion in Texas, under a new state law that contains a legal innovation with broad implications for the American court system.
……..
Ordinarily, enforcement would be up to government officials, and if clinics wanted to challenge the law’s constitutionality, they would sue those officials in making their case. But the law in Texas prohibits officials from enforcing it. Instead, it takes the opposite approach, effectively deputizing ordinary citizens — including from outside Texas — to sue clinics and others who violate the law. It awards them at least $10,000 per illegal abortion if they are successful.
……..
The result is a law that is extremely difficult to challenge before it takes effect on Sept. 1 because it is hard to know whom to sue to block it, and lawyers for clinics are now wrestling with what to do about it.
…….
Critics say the Texas law amounts to a kind of hack of the legal system. In an open letter this spring, more than 370 Texas lawyers, including Professor (Stephen Vladeck, a constitutional law professor at the University of Texas at Austin) said a central flaw was its attempt to confer legal standing on abortion opponents who were not themselves injured. They called the law an “unprecedented abuse of civil litigation,” and said it could “have a destabilizing impact on the state’s legal infrastructure.”
“If the barista at Starbucks overhears you talking about your abortion, and it was performed after six weeks, that barista is authorized to sue the clinic where you obtained the abortion and to sue any other person who helped you, like the Uber driver who took you there,” said Melissa Murray, a law professor at New York University.
Rip Murdock (cbadfd) — 7/9/2021 @ 8:49 pm……..
…….,(A) Supreme Court ruling last month involving a credit reporting company rejected the concept of people suing when they were not concretely harmed………
………
What could possibly go wrong?
It’s called qui tam and it’s been used on and off since Roman times. You now see it mostly in federal whistleblower suits, and I remember in environmental suits. It still needs a cause of action, i.e. a violation of a valid law, to back it up, and it’s not at all difficult to find the correct person to sue to challenge the law that provides the cause of action: In Texas, his name is Greg Abbott and his address for service of process is 1010 Colorado St, Austin, TX 78701.
nk (1d9030) — 7/9/2021 @ 9:03 pmI’ve just added a video clip from CPAC to the post and omg, who are these people!
Dana (fd537d) — 7/9/2021 @ 9:06 pmTrump Supporters Insist Far-Fetched 7-Point Plan Will Get Him Back In Office
Attendees at this weekend’s Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Dallas are certain they have a foolproof plan to get Donald Trump back in the White House in just a matter of days.
…….
……(T)he first step is to get Democratic members of the Black Congressional Caucus to switch parties so that “a trusted conservative” ― presumedly Trump ― can replace Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) as House speaker and reveal supposedly repressed stories of election fraud.
Then both President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris would apparently be impeached and Trump, as speaker, would be next in line for the presidency.
……..
However, a casual observer with an understanding with the basic principles of critical thinking might see problems with the plan, such as getting members of the Black caucus, such as Reps. Maxine Waters of California and Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, and Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey, to suddenly join a political party that doesn’t reflect their values.
Oh, and there is that pesky issue of finding 17 Democratic senators willing to impeach Biden and Harris to meet the two-thirds threshold required by the Constitution to remove a president or vice president from office.
Rip Murdock (cbadfd) — 7/9/2021 @ 9:07 pm………
The full seven point plan be seen here.
Make that *pre*-Roman times. In Euthyphro, the dialogue is between Socrates and a young man (Euthyphro) on his way to prosecute his father for murder.
nk (1d9030) — 7/9/2021 @ 9:09 pmKlink,
Do you agree with how and when they’re being pulled out now? Does it leave a vacuum for the Taliban to fill, and if so, is that risk worth it?
Dana (fd537d) — 7/9/2021 @ 9:20 pm@10. The Bill for the Afghanistan War Is $2.26 Trillion, and Still Rising =mike-drop=
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/04/16/bill-afghanistan-war-226-trillion-and-still-rising.html
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/9/2021 @ 9:41 pmMadison Cawthorn says today that Biden’s plan to send people door to door to offer vaccines is really a plot to confiscate people’s bibles and guns.
That’s better. And there I was afraid they really were going to make me get the vaccine.
Has the whole country turned into a soap opera? Where’s the organ music?
nk (1d9030) — 7/9/2021 @ 10:00 pmI hope Madison never learns that a government employee visits your house 5 times a week, and could knock on your door at any time.
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 7/9/2021 @ 10:05 pmTop US military official overseeing the withdrawal of troops not so sure:
Army Gen. Austin Scott Miller, the top US military official overseeing the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, said that there should be concern about the Taliban advances on the ground there.
As if America was going to manage there any better than the Russians, the British Empire, Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great did. The general’s job is to carry out policy- not make it. Accordingly, don’t give a damn what the ‘general’ thinks any more than wised up Americans cared what Westmorland outgassed in ’68.
The “general” was born in 1961; a mere toddler for the likes of the Battle of Ia Drang in 1965; the Tet Offensive and the siege of Khe Sanh in 1968. Best he refresh himself w/t the history of why France and America failed; why these multiple decade wars are a colossal waste of blood, lives, treasure- not to mention the hell the Vietnam War wrought on Vietnam and American societies; an ‘undeclared war’ that idiot Reagan stupidly called ‘noble.’
There as nothing ‘noble’ about any of this. And after 20 years, w/all the weapons and resources charged to Uncle Sam’s credit card for the Afghans– it won’t help any more than it did in Vietnam when the local nationals won’t fight for themselves. And after 20 years, if they won’t, there’s no point to having Americans foot the bills any longer. Put down your guns and pick up a book, ‘general’– absorb some history. Better still, ask a Briton; or a Russian.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/9/2021 @ 10:26 pm‘But I trust the capacity of the Afghan military, who is better trained, better equipped, and more re- — more competent in terms of conducting war.’ – President Plagiarist.
Idiot.
“This letter’s post-marked, Vietnam.” – Barry Sadler 1966
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/9/2021 @ 10:31 pmhttps://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4243973
Xiden listens when his boss speaks.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/9/2021 @ 11:13 pmhttps://dailycaller.com/2021/07/09/andrew-saul-fired-joe-biden-lawsuit/
Biden politicizes the SSA.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/9/2021 @ 11:16 pmhttps://thefederalist.com/2021/07/09/white-house-repeats-lie-that-teaching-critical-race-theory-in-schools-is-history/
Psaki replied that the U.S. still has “systemic racism” that needs to be acknowledged and addressed through government schools.
Yes there is. And it’s coming from the leftist party trying to balkanize our nation.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/9/2021 @ 11:21 pm“Biden politicizes the SSA.”
Sorry, but Commissioner Saul was part of the deep state, he had to go.
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:11 amNo one should have been deployed to that schiff hole country. That effing boooosh should have leveled the place on 9-12. But no he killed and maimed thousands of our best and brightest. Such a pathetic human.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:05 amhttps://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/07/09/biden-and-dems-want-a-global-cartel-by-october-to-set-corporate-tax-rates-around-the-world-and-the-gop-is-going-to-help-n1460732
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:29 amand the trained republican dogs will help
Good morning, Dana. I do so much appreciate these open threads that you, and of course our gracious host Patterico, provide. However, and I mean no disrespect, you’ve got mosquitos completely wrong. I don’t know this guy Riehle, and I don’t read Live Science. I stopped reading ‘science’ magazines back when Omni and Scientific American were reporting on crop circles, as if they were some sort of messages from outer space. Give me a break. Messages from space aliens? Are you kidding me?
There are no space aliens invading the planet. There never have been and there never will be. All forms of life reqiure food, water and air. None of that exists in outer space. All forms of transportation require fuel and maintinence. None of that exists in outer space. It’s not like there’s some sort of Galatic Stop and Go. The travel distance between planets alone would require hunddreds, thousands of years.
It’s all so ludicrous and insane. Which brings us back to the topic. There are no space aliens. There never have been and never will be.
So what we are left to deal with is ourselves. And how we do that is our problem. I would like to think we could work things out.
Gawain's Ghost (ef1cde) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:34 amThe mating behavior or mosquitos, by the way, is that the male buzzes around, so that the female can sneack up and take blood, which she needs for ovulation. Then they can mate. That’s the mating dance of the mosquito.
Gawain's Ghost (ef1cde) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:41 amhttps://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2021/07/10/twitter-thread-that-explains-why-trump-supporters-feel-the-way-they-do-about-the-2020-election-n2592322
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:57 amGuard dogs on duty.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/u-s-womens-soccer-team-is-hellbent-on-embarrassing-us-all/
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:00 amOne couldn’t pay me to watch these commies. Or the olympics.
@24, it’s good to understand how ppl think. But the factual errors in that thread are numerous.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:27 amIn general I deeply dislike Sen Warren. But she’s correct here that we don’t do enough to prevent insider trading.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:55 amhttps://www.ft.com/content/5c84bcb5-1f48-4642-bb0c-2291d3575b41
Charlottesville to take down Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson statues Saturday
Another (two) bite the dust.
Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:21 amRIP James Kallstrom (78).
Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:27 am22 and 23. Well, Gawain’s Ghost, I happen to have it on good authority that Earth is an Intergalactic Federation nature preserve, and the only reason that three-fourths of the human population have not been culled by the Federation for overbreeding is that humans are an essential link in the reproductive cycle of more than 200 mosquito species. Which, I’m afraid (and it’s not something which is widely publicized), is only a temporary measure until a new, less fecund and less destructive, species can be responsibly introduced to take the place of humans in the cycle.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:49 amA mosquito walks into a cake shop and asks for a…
BuDuh (7bca93) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:54 amBTW, Dana, the artwork you have in mind is not Philippe Halsman’s three flying cats with Salvador Dali?
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:58 amIt would be better if we started prohibiting buying goods from those firms exploiting slave labor. But that might impact some US companies that have made large campaign contributions to avoid exactly that.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 6:05 amDistraught man calls 911 to frantically report that his friend has collapsed on the ground, is unresponsive and appears to be dead.
911 dispatcher can barely understand the man, tells him to “calm down” and then says “let’s make sure he’s dead”.
There’s 5 seconds of silence on the line and then the sound of a gunshot.
The man comes back on the phone and says, “okay, what now?”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/10/2021 @ 6:29 amDonald Trump is the reason we are approaching socialism. It’s not the message that people don’t want, it’s the messenger. Trump is toxic to all but his True Believers.
He got a lot of votes last time, but not enough. Why? Because he could not attract the center, or even parts of his own party. Parts that included every previous GOP candidate. Sure, his fans thought that was great and wrote off all those “RINOs” but you cannot win a general election without the whole party.
And, in losing, he has cleared the field for the radical opposition. “More cowbell” is not the answer.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:15 amSchlapp added: “We’re about to have the country slip into European socialism and some Republicans just want to fight about 1/6, or Donald Trump, or Twitter, and I have no time for any of that.”
As long as Donald Trump infestst the halls of the GOP that’s ALL anyone will be talking about. Because it’s ALL about Trump in Trumpland.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:17 amThe true sonnet has both rhythm and rhyme
The Limerick Avenger (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:18 amToday’s writers have neglected the last
The form’s been preserved to last throughout time
‘Tis nothing that should be left to the past!
The Bard labored long to get sonnets right
Themes of loves won and loves which went bitter
Heart of our days, loves labor through long nights
Now have been shrunk to fit into Twitter.
The Bard would lament what’s happened to prose
And poetry’s now a very lost art
The scent that it gives is surely no rose
Today’s best writing is barely a fart.
No need for iambic pentameter
It must fit in two-eighty characters!
“As soon as I saw him prying with the knife, I told her she needed to call 911,” Hemingway said to KTLA…The Los Angeles Police Department responded, but Hemingway says officers told his wife that even with video evidence, they didn’t have enough to arrest the intruder.
There’s a lot of property crime here in ABQ, but little of it involves residences. Why? Because there are guns in so many homes, no registration required.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:21 amThe better looking Dana quoted:
Without further information, this isn’t much of a much. How many of the non-prosecuted federal hate crimes prosecutions were dropped because the individual to be charged was convicted in a state court for something which would keep the offender in prison for much longer?
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:22 amBut Roth wasn’t burglarizing. He was just trick-or-treating for drugs or something to buy drugs with.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:24 amThe Biden administration added 14 Chinese companies to a trade blacklist on Friday over their alleged role in that country’s abuses of its Uighur civilians and other Muslim ethnic minorities.
Call me when it’s Apple or Nike, or their contract manufacturers, on the list.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:25 amKevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:15 am
What’s the point in winning the general with a candidate who is only slightly less D than the D?
If the voters want radical let’s get it going. I don’t think Trump can win another general but unless some R’s dump the “traditional” approach they won’t either.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:31 am37… well done, Avenger!
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:31 am“All forms of life reqiure food, water and air. None of that exists in outer space.”
The Milky Way is estimated to have 400 billion stars. Planets surrounding stars are very common, so there could easily be a trillion planets in our galaxy alone. The universe contains hundreds of billions of galaxies. Over nearly 14 billion years, that certainly enables a spectacular number of chemical reactions. We know that planetary systems form from a rich mixture of elements, including elements that are regarded as essential for life like hydrogen and its compounds. We see evidence of water on Jupiter’s moons….we see planets with atmospheres. Hydrogen, methane, ammonia, and water mix….and with enough energy available to break chemical bonds (say from photons)….you can get lots of amino acids and elements of nucleotides. These are then the building blocks for proteins and nucleic acids….and suddenly you have the recipe for extremely simple life. Yes, the conditions need to be right for it to survive and thrive and adapt but the initial seeding of life seems to be likely in the trillions and trillions of potential cases.
Now certainly none of this suggests that that life will evolve to be complex enough to become technologically advanced and communicate over or travel across huge distances to interact….but can extra-terrestrial life exist? Sure. Do we have evidence of complex life? Not so much. Is there a statistical probability that it could exist? Sure….and off our imagination goes…..
Side note: the TV series War of the Worlds has so many plot holes that it has me actually rooting for the aliens….so they will eliminate annoying characters and plotlines with impunity. I’m enjoying the surprise of seeing that a tv show can in fact continue to get worse….
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:32 amAs a result, the directive prompted state governments to incentivize energy providers to burn biomass instead of coal — and drove up demand for wood.
Wood is not much better, CO2-wise, than coal and has significant drawbacks. For example, the tree you cut down used to consume CO2. Hardwoods also have other uses. Try building a table out of coal.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:33 amThink of the case of Dylann Roof: already under nine consecutive life without the possibility of parole in South Carolina, the feds, when Barack Hussein Obama was still President, went ahead with a federal trial, to get Mr Roof sentenced to death. Yet no federal prisoner had been executed since 2003, and Mr Obama never pressed for any federal prisoners to be executed. President Trump got something like ten quick executions done, but President Biden will not allow any.
The result? Mr Roof will die in prison, most probably of old age, and we we will have wasted time, money and effort, all to house him in a more expensive federal prison than a South Carolina state one.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:34 amColonel Haiku wrote:
Avenger surprised
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:36 amThat he got the name change through
Won’t try it often
“Yes, I am biased. But when my work calls for me not to be, I work very hard to create unbiased journalism—that’s what a professional does.”
The problem is that what he thinks is “unbiased” is still pretty biased.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:38 amThen both President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris would apparently be impeached and Trump, as speaker, would be next in line for the presidency.
What do you suppose the plan is if the GOP wins back the House? What a wonderful continuing opportunity to ratf**k the GOP’s electoral chances.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:43 amI hope Madison never learns that a government employee visits your house 5 times a week, and could knock on your door at any time.
If the postal service has its way, they will be converting everyone to neighborhood mailboxes, where 100 or 200 mailboxes are co-located every few blocks. They are doing this now with new development, as it is much easier for the post office, if not for the residents.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:46 amWhen it comes to the Covid vaccine, we have gone past Socialism, European or any other kind, and achieved Utopia. Which is to say true Communism.
As all comrades should know, under Socialism it is necessary to allocate. Goods and services, as well as want and hunger (just ask the Ukrainians). That is the natural progression, Socialism being the intermediate stage between Revolution and Communism.
But when Communism is achieved, there is enough for everybody. Which nobody can deny is the case with our Covid vaccines.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:46 amnk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:49 am
Ha! You’ve got me in stitches!
felipe (484255) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:47 amThe Limerick Avenger (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:18 am
That was great, other Dana! When was the last time we had a “sock-puppet Friday?” I enjoyed those.
felipe (484255) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:50 amThe much nicer Dana asked:
Of course it leaves a vacuum for the Taliban to fill, and they will fill it. There are already stories of five (?) Afghan Air Force pilots being assassinated because the Taliban, with no air force of their own, realize that air power is where they cannot compete.
But, at this point, so what? Theodore Roosevelt supposedly said, “If you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.” Well, that statement’s not true, because if you let go of their balls, their hearts and minds will go back to what they were. We were never prepared to hold their balls forever.
A truer statement would be, “Once you kill them, they won’t oppose you anymore,” but we haven’t been willing to kill them, have we? We’ve somehow come to the cockamamie conclusion that we can fight a war without killing people, and are shocked, shocked! when the fighters we don’t kill come back to fight again the next day.
Their hearts and minds are held by an extreme form of Islam, and we were never able to change that.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:52 amIf the voters want radical let’s get it going. I don’t think Trump can win another general but unless some R’s dump the “traditional” approach they won’t either.
There are several strong candidates that could carry the ball forward without being offensive or polarizing like Trump. His problem was NEVER his policies, it was his persona that repelled.
As I said (and you chose not to repeat) it was not the message but the messenger. A sane candidate with the same platform would have won.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:54 amI’m enjoying the surprise of seeing that a tv show can in fact continue to get worse….
Most do, maybe not as quickly.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:55 amThe vacuum for the Taliban was formed 30 years ago. When the Soviets withdrew and we did too.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:00 amPresident Trump got something like ten quick executions done, but President Biden will not allow any.
It is one thing to say that discretion allows/requires one to choose which laws to enforce, but quite another to say “I just don’t want to.” Refusing to enforce a law because you don’t like it gives the Executive a functional veto over any law, or part of law, passed by Congress. This, in turn, makes legislative compromise harder.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:00 amKevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:54 am
Which ones?
And no, I didn’t choose not to repeat. I don’t think “traditional” GOP will carry the ball forward. So, it’s more that I don’t accept the premise. A sane candidate with the same platform will be painted with the same brush. Any ball moving by a GOP on illegal immigration other than amnesty will be defined as racism. Any economic plan to counter China will be populist or protectionist or racist or all of the above. Any movement on any of the social issue will be bigotry.
The R’s were painted as the party of racist, sexist, homophobes long before trump showed up. It’s wishful thinking that you’ll be able to pile all that baggage on him and have it leave if you boot him out the door.
And if you boot him without convincing voters that the GOP will start actually trying to move the ball then we’re all in for a fun time.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:24 amMr M wrote:
The law requires the President to sign something that is the functional equivalent of a state death warrant, and the President is completely within the law to not sign one; that is at his discretion. President Biden could — and should — exercise his pardoning and commutation power to commute all federal death sentences to life without parole. He could, and should, order the Attorney General not to seek any further death sentences. That would not restrict a future Administration from seeking capital sentences, unless Congress eliminates capital punishment for federal crimes.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:28 am@30 and 31
You both can make fun of me as long as you want to. I don’t mind or care.
But that is the mating cycle of the mosquito. The male buzzes so the female can drink blood. That’s what they do. The male distracts so the female can ovulate, then they can mate.
Perhaps entemology is a complicated word for you. It obviously is to Riehle and Live Science.
I remember back in the day, mid-1970s, somebody saw a bird in their back yard. It was a strange bird, and this somebody freaked out. Next thing you know, it was all over the news. Big Bird! Oh my God, what is it?
They made t-shirts of Big Bird. All the kids at school wore these t-shirts. And they were all talking about Big Bird. They said it was a teradactyl or a space alien, something like that. Then they asked me. I said, “It’s a big bird. Probably a vulture or a condor, maybe an egrit or something like that.”
They all said I was stupid. They all humiliated me. “You think it’s a bird? How stupid are you?”
I was like, “You’re all talking about extinct dinosaurs and non-exsistent space aliens, and you’re calling me stupid?”
Finally, after a few weeks, someone finally caught a picture of the bird. You know what it was? An albatross.
Unexpectable but explainable. An albatross is a soring bird. He or she rides the trade winds. An albatross can soar across the Atlantic, from continent to continent.
So for an albratoss to land here would not be out of the question. I didn’t exspect or anticipate that one would, but that’s what happened.
Big Bird was an Albatross.
Gawain's Ghost (ef1cde) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:29 amTheir hearts and minds are held by an extreme form of Islam, and we were never able to change that.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:52 am
Western nations have held pipe dreams of bringing “democracy to the Middle East” and imposing secularist Enlightenment ideals on them since Napoleon’s adventure in Egypt. They and the intellectuals/think-tank geeks have never been able to grasp the reality that these people have cultures and religions that are centuries old, are ethno-nationalistic to a degree that continues to baffle the urban cosmopolitan elite, and they aren’t giving these up short of total genocide or enslavement. It’s nothing more than “white man’s burden” perpetuating itself for the last 220 years.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:31 amCommuting Lisa Montgomery’s death sentence to life would have cost the U.S. taxpayers about a week’s worth of what it cost them to keep Melania in New York, at the beginning of Trump’s term, when she refused to move into the White House unless Trump renegotiated their prenup. And she stayed for three months.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:32 amI’m not that worried about the former POTUS. It seems like we’ve got that in a box. At least for now.
The current POTUS on the other hand not so much. But then again a large percentage of people thing he’s not in charge so maybe we’ve got that in a box too. 🤞
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:41 amSome guy from Greece wrote:
Capital sentences always cost more than life in prison. With a capital sentence, we are on the hook for the additional expenses of death row, and dozens of additional appeals, all in states where very few prisoners are actually executed anyway. The way we do capital punishment simply isn’t practical.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:47 amI’m not tracking the rationale of not at least leaving a small U.S./NATO counter-insurgency force (2.5k to 5k) in place in Afghanistan. Few are disputing what is going to play out: Iran will dominate the western part of the country, the Taliban will dominate the Southern part, the Haqqani criminal network will control the east, ISIS and al Quaeda will exploit the chaos, and in due time civil war will eviscerate the government, savage our long-standing Afghani allies, and set the stage for terrorist groups to train, recruit, and plan with impunity. Why give up most if not all of your leverage and pretend that it makes some sense to count on the Taliban controlling ISIS(!)?
At his press conference, Biden asked how many more Americans are expected to die…..which made me want to ask him, how many Americans have died since Operation Freedom’s Sentinel transitioned in 2014? Some might say, well, not one more American life is worth it….harumpf, harumpf. But sometimes keeping a lid on a situation is worth a modest investment. We have soldiers deployed around the world to act as trip-wires, staging areas, and regional deterents…to not see Afghanistan similarly appears quite short sighted
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:49 am…….We have soldiers deployed around the world to act as trip-wires, staging areas, and regional deterents…
Few if any are in countries were the local population actively does not want us there, or are actual war zones. Afghanistan is both.
Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 9:09 amhttps://legalinsurrection.com/2021/07/judge-withdraws-opinion-dismissing-boston-zip-code-quota-plan-case-ive-been-misled-by-concealment-of-anti-white-text-messages/
Quotes from the judge
The leftists running the city deliberately withheld critical information from the judge to bias him towards their case. They deserve the maximum penalty possible and all future cases should be looked upon in this light.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/10/2021 @ 9:38 amOh reeeeally? Didn’t you hear about the ones who landed in Bulgaria?
Radegunda (33a224) — 7/10/2021 @ 9:42 amThanks, Biden voters and enablers! Gooder and much harder…
https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/1413234888996622336?s=20
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:04 amThere’s much truth to that. But “these people” didn’t all want to live under the control of the Taliban, either. The U.S. wasn’t exactly trying to wipe out the Afghan culture or religion. In Iraq, a lot of people were thrilled to get out from under the jackboots of Saddam Hussein, and thrilled by the idea of choosing who would govern them. The basic error of U.S. policy was failing to acknowledge how much cultural evolution led up to the institutions of democratic governance in large polities, and to acceptance of the concept of minority rights.
Some people who are now eager to bash “urban cosmopolitan elites” (which often means people who don’t like Trump) take an overly romanticized view of “traditional cultures” elsewhere, apparently believing that the world outside the “liberal West” is filled with contented people living in harmonious unity in a holistic culture where the government attends to nourishing their spirit, unlike the hollow materialist liberal regime. Tyrannical governments are given a rosy gloss if they’re thought to represent a tradition antithetical to the liberal West.
It used to be mostly people on the left who romanticized non-Western traditional cultures, while philosophical conservatives were more clear-eyed about their faults. Now the romanticizing is sometimes done by cultural conservatives who dislike cultural liberalism and “secularism” at home (i.e. people having freedom of religion), and like the idea of a society where the government favors and promotes a particular religion and is forceful in upholding a moral code. (And they expect it would be their own religion and their own moral code if they can make it happen here.)
Radegunda (33a224) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:21 amThe Ghilzai have always been at war with the Durani.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:23 amRip, you don’t think our Afghani Security Force allies….and the parts of the civilian population who oppose the Taliban….want us to stay?
I think the political discussion got misfocused on the singular issue of troop presence/withdrawal….rather than establishing the conditions necessary for a more stable Afghanistan. Troop numbers are already exceedingly small….especially compared to Germany (35k) or South Korea (28k). It’s not like we are advocating for 100,000 troop levels with active offenses. All we’re doing by abandoning such a light footprint, is signaling to our enemies and adversaries weakness….and reducing our ability to respond to terrorism. At minimum, the exit should have been conditions-based. Trump was weak….and Biden continues a 40-year career of being wrong on foreign policy….heck, even Hillary Clinton sides with Condoleezza Rice on troops staying
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:25 amWhat a shame that Trump and his enablers didn’t succeed in overturning the will of the people! But some of them haven’t stopped trying, and some are endeavoring to make it possible for Republican-dominated legislatures to overturn the vote of the people next time — so there’s still hope for ending this long experiment in constitutional democracy.
Radegunda (33a224) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:30 am?
College educated voters in the burbs voted D or stayed home. I’m one of them. If the GOP runs a Trumplike candidate I’ll do it again. If they run a saner candidate I’ve got a choice.
But look on the bright side, Biden’s trade and economic policies aren’t that different from Trumps. So you’re getting some of the populism you want.
Time123 (e035f5) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:32 am“Thanks….enablers!”
Colonel, right back at you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCDZwgtNxRU
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:36 am@75 yeah, trump cost republicans so many voters
college educated voters in the burbs
latinos
soccer moms
everyone who isn’t racist
with all those votes, there must’ve been some serious vote fraud to cost romney and mccain their landslides
JF (e1156d) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:53 amNo. That’s incorrect. I fit that criteria and definitely voted R. And Trump won more counties than before. A handful of cities gave Biden the win. Trump won 18 of 19 bellwether counties.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:53 am@30. A better authority said it best:
“We live on a blue dot.”- Carl Sagan, 2/14/1990
‘Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every “superstar,” every “supreme leader,” every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there–on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.’ – source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:54 amhttps://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-you-e5f
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:03 amHe lost the popular vote by several million.
Is it your belief that the votes of people who live in big cities should count for much less than the votes of small-town and rural people? The electoral system and representation in Congress already give an advantage to Republicans. Do you believe it isn’t enough of an advantage as long as a Democrat can win the presidency by persuading more people to vote for him?
Radegunda (33a224) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:15 amJust because certain segments of Afghan society have benefited from our presence doesn’t mean we a obligated to fight their wars for them. The vast majority of Afghan society, which is rural and extremely religious and conservative, a) didn’t care who was fighting for what; and/or b) actively supported the Taliban. Even our erstwhile ally Pakistan created and supported the Taliban. There is no international terrorist threat from Afghanistan now, and if it reappeared, there is nothing stopping a country from attacking the threat from the air or the ground if need be.
You are right, no one is advocating for 100,000 troops in active combat-we tried that and it didn’t work. Outside of symbolism, what is the point of a “light” footprint? If the force would be less than that stationed with friendly allies, it would be unable to defend itself. Before the withdrawal, US forces were around 2,500-hardly a force that could defend itself over a period of time. The “signaling weakness to our enemies and adversaries” argument against withdrawal from anywhere is the same used in Vietnam. Withdrawing from Afghanistan is not the same as withdrawing from Korea, Japan, or Europe. Vietnam and Afghanistan were sideshows in the Cold War (and our involvement in Afghanistan started in the Cold War).
What conditions would you set? Functioning democracy? The ability of the Afghan military to seize and hold territory? Ending corruption? Ending the drug trade? Female equality? None of these conditions exist in Afghanistan now and there is absolutely no evidence they will ever exist. You cannot impose a foreign societal matrix on a culture that has never historically functioned that way.
Lord Palmerston supposedly said: “England has no eternal friends, England has no perpetual enemies, England has only eternal and perpetual interests”. The United States continues to act with missionary zeal bringing democracy to where it cannot exist. The sooner the US realizes that it only has interests the better our foreign policy will be. Deposing the Taliban and killing Bin Laden were our only interests after 9/11. We succeeded, and should have left the Afghans to determine their own future at that time.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:28 amBut “these people” didn’t all want to live under the control of the Taliban, either. The U.S. wasn’t exactly trying to wipe out the Afghan culture or religion. In Iraq, a lot of people were thrilled to get out from under the jackboots of Saddam Hussein, and thrilled by the idea of choosing who would govern them.
Just because “a lot” were happy about the short-term effects doesn’t mean that that they wanted the US sticking around to influence the direction of their nation, either.
The basic error of U.S. policy was failing to acknowledge how much cultural evolution led up to the institutions of democratic governance in large polities, and to acceptance of the concept of minority rights.
The basic error of US policy was believing that they could organically impose the precepts of western-style government and philosophy on to cultures that are deeply tribal and ethno-nationalist, and the people of those nations would just naturally all get along when the self-evident benefits of practicing our systems became clear.
Some people who are now eager to bash “urban cosmopolitan elites” (which often means people who don’t like Trump) take an overly romanticized view of “traditional cultures” elsewhere…It used to be mostly people on the left who romanticized non-Western traditional cultures, while philosophical conservatives were more clear-eyed about their faults. Now the romanticizing is sometimes done by cultural conservatives who dislike cultural liberalism and “secularism” at home
This characterization doesn’t even pass the laugh test. No cultural conservatives are romanticizing ancient tribal cultures. Leaving aside the fact that the “noble savage” stereotype has been a purview of white left-wing thinking from Rousseau all the way in to the 21st century, all one has to do is look at the results of the last 40 years of American foreign policy to see the persistent failure of trying to bring “democracy” to the Middle East. Having eyes to see is all that’s needed. Can anyone really claim with a straight face that Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, and Syria are really better off now than they were 40 years ago? Can we really call Egypt, the UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, and Bahrain democracies that respect “minority rights”?
So yes, bashing the urban cosmopolitan elites who came up with these big-brained ideas is fully appropriate. The mess that’s in the region is on them, not the cultural conservatives who finally stopped, looked back at the last few decades and realized that, for all their degrees and education, these are fundamentally arrogant, stupid people who don’t really know as much as they think they do, and stopped supporting them as a result.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:29 amThe 2020 Census of American Religion-Public Religion Research Institute
Seven in ten Americans (70%) identify as Christian, including more than four in ten who identify as white Christian and more than one-quarter who identify as Christian of color. Nearly one in four Americans (23%) are religiously unaffiliated, and 5% identify with non-Christian religions.
…………
Over the last few decades, the proportion of the U.S. population that is white Christian has declined by nearly one-third. As recently as 1996, almost two-thirds of Americans (65%) identified as white and Christian. By 2006, that had declined to 54%, and by 2017 it was down to 43%. The proportion of white Christians hit a low point in 2018, at 42%, and rebounded slightly in 2019 and 2020, to 44%. That tick upward indicates the decline is slowing from its pace of losing roughly 11% per decade.
…….
Disaffiliating white Christians have fueled the growth of the religiously unaffiliated during this period. Only 16% of Americans reported being religiously unaffiliated in 2007; this proportion rose to 19% by 2012 …….. the proportion of religiously unaffiliated Americans hit a high point of 26% in 2018 but has since slightly declined, to 23% in 2020………
………..
Americans ages 18–29 are the most religiously diverse age group. ……
The proportion of white Christians increases proportionally as age increases. …..
………
Educational attainment varies considerably across religious groups. Majorities of Hindu (67%), Unitarian Universalist (59%), and Jewish (58%) Americans have four-year college degrees or higher. Four in ten or more Orthodox Christians (48%), white Catholics (42%), and Latter-day Saints (40%) also have at least a four-year college degree. ………
……..
A large majority (71%) of white Americans identify as Christian. Half (50%) are Protestant, including 23% who identify as evangelical and 27% who are mainline Protestant. Another 19% are Catholic…….. Most non-Christian white Americans are religiously unaffiliated (23%)……Compared to 2013, white Americans are slightly less Christian overall (74% in 2013) and more likely to be unaffiliated (22% in 2013).
Black Americans are also mostly Christian (72%). More than six in ten (63%) are Protestant, including 35% who identify as evangelical and 28% who identify as non-evangelical Protestants. Seven percent of Black Americans are Catholic, while 2% are Muslim and 2% are Buddhist, 2% are another religion, and 1% are Jehovah’s Witnesses ………….more than one in five (21%) Black Americans are religiously unaffiliated. More Black Americans identified as Christian in 2013 (79%) and fewer said they were religiously unaffiliated (16% in 2013).
………
Both major political parties are majority Christian, with 83% of Republicans and 69% of Democrats identifying as Christian. ……. Two-thirds of Republicans (68%) identify as white and Christian, compared to 39% of Democrats. Among Republicans, 29% are white evangelical Protestants, 22% are white mainline Protestants, and 15% are white Catholics. Among Democrats, those numbers fall to 9%, 16%, and 13%, respectively.
By contrast, 13% of Democrats are Black Protestants, 10% are Hispanic Catholics, and 4% are Hispanic Protestants, compared to only 2%, 3%, and 3%, respectively, among Republicans. Nearly one in four Democrats (23%) are religiously unaffiliated, compared to 13% of Republicans.
The share of religiously unaffiliated people among Republicans has increased dramatically. In 2006, just 4% of Republicans identified as unaffiliated. That proportion more than doubled to 10% in 2013 and continued to grow to 13% in 2020.
…….. The share of unaffiliated Democrats also more than doubled between 2006 (9%) and 2013 (22%). From 2013 to 2018 (28%), the share of unaffiliated Democrats grew slightly each year, before dropping to 23% in 2020. ……
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:46 am………..
The survey also includes interactive maps showing the concentration of major religious groups at the County level.
77, neither an amnesty shill who wasnt going to bring a single soldier back home, nor a Mormon banker were going to draw out the latent “Perot” voter of the northern swing states or the reddest redoubts of FL or VA (the latter 2 more applicable to Romney ’12). Trump adopting Kushnerite policies i.e. criminal justice (should have been called sentencing) reform and the John James fetish didnt help, they and the Groypers checked out.
urbanleftbehind (95c033) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:06 pmIn spite of incumbency, low unemployment, and (mostly) peace abroad, Trump lost by more than 7 million votes in 2020, 81,268,924 to 74,216,154. He lost to a man who was widely viewed as a mediocre campaigner, correctly in my opinion.
In both 2020 and 2016, Trump won a slightly smaller percentage of popular votes than Mitt Romney had in 2012 — and Romney was running against Barack Obama, an incumbent and a more attractive candidate than Joe Biden.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:15 pmOrange County (CA) venue cancels Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene’s planned America First rally
…….
“We just want to stay clear of that,” Javad Mirtavoosi, general manager of Pacific Hills Banquet & Event Center, said by phone Friday.
Greene’s campaign disputed that account of how the cancellation transpired. And they’re still selling tickets for a rally, though they’re still trying to find an Orange County venue for the same day.
“We’re very close to securing a location that will proudly host our America First Rally with Congresswoman Greene and Congressman Gaetz,” Nick Dyer, spokesman for Greene’s campaign, said Friday afternoon.
…….
“As soon as we found out who the speakers were we immediately canceled it,” Mirtavoosi said.
Gaetz and Greene have been co-hosting America First rallies across the country since early May, when they kicked off the series in a Florida retirement community that heavily supported Trump in 2020.
………
Mirtavoosi declined to say whether he or the center had political differences with the speakers, or whether they’d gotten phone calls about the event.
“We just thought it would be best for our facility to cancel.”
Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:16 pm…….
Is a violation of Greene and Gaetz’s First Amendment rights, and should the venue be required to hold the event?
I didnt have the nads to buy rental property 18 summers ago because of the “warm bed” living situations I’d be inheriting at my price point; this is just terrible for the owner:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/09/nyregion/rent-landlord-eviction-moratorium.html
urbanleftbehind (95c033) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:17 pmIn spite of incumbency, low unemployment, and (mostly) peace abroad, Trump lost by more than 7 million votes in 2020, 81,268,924 to 74,216,154. He lost to a man who was widely viewed as a mediocre campaigner, correctly in my opinion.
It was Trump’s hamfisted response to the pandemic that did him in.
Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:19 pmI don’t agree with the when, as to the how, it was always going to be something like this, there were always going to be the last few who leave when the “objective” was not met. So today is a good day to leave, yesterday better, a decade ago even better. But look at all the who’s in the US Congress that were on the “never leave but never commit” caucus.
The when should have been around 2004-5, after we trained up the Afghan’s SF units, the rest are useless. The Taliban was always going to take back over, remember when they were going to come to Camp David…for the anniversary to 9-11.
The original goal was to remove bases for Al-Qaeda, the Taliban (the only central government like thing the area called Afghanistan had) was only an ancillary target because they wouldn’t let us just take Bin Laden…because the bribe wasn’t large enough. Then the western-ification became a stupid goal. If they’d turned over Bin Laden, they’d still be in control.
The military strategy of air strikes and USSOCOM targeting camps and leaders would have been just as effective. Al-Qaeda moved across the border to Pakistan, and Pakistan played the game with the Bush admin (Nuclear armed countries get special treatment), so, again the effort after 2003-ish didn’t really do anything other than delay what we’re seeing today, whether it is now or 2010, 2005.
To have agreement, to have treaties, you have to have responsible parties. Afghanistan isn’t a country, it doesn’t have a government for us to have agreements with, never did, that’s why we paid the Northern Alliance. Overall, is there more risk today than leaving 18 years ago, not really. They’re probably different, but after disrupting Al-Qaeda, what other actual permanent positive have we accomplished? But again, it’s not a country.
Don’t get me started on the rat hole that the mistakes of Iraq have caused, including what it did to the focus on Afghanistan. It makes Afghanistan look like a model for success.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:52 pmThe polls showed a consistent lead for Biden, beginning long before COVID. (You can see two years of polling data in the Wikipedia article.)
The stability of the vote for Biden is unprecedented in modern presidential elections. The simplest way to explain that stability is to assume that voters had made up their minds about Trump — and a majority of voters don’t like him.
Trump’s “ham-fisted” response to COVID should have cost him votes, as it demonstrated, once again, his incompetence and his indifference to the lives of anyone not named Trump, but it doesn’t seem to have cost him many.
Similarly, New York voters don’t seem to have turned much against Governor Cuomo, after his botched response to the pandemic.
(There is an odd parallel in, of all places, Sweden. There, the coalition government decided to go for “herd immunity”. The result was about 10 times as many deaths from COVID, per capita, as in neighboring Norway. But the Swedish prime minister, Stefan Löfven, has stayed in power, even putting together a new coalition after losing a confidence vote in June.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/10/2021 @ 12:54 pmWe may never win another war.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:00 pm“All forms of life require food, water and air. None of that exists in outer space.”
Carbon-based life.=eye-roll= Look around you: in case you haven’t noticed, Earth exists in ‘outer space.’
______
We have soldiers deployed around the world to act as trip-wires, staging areas, and regional deterents…to not see Afghanistan similarly appears quite short sighted
Rubbish. Same right wing neocon babble for perpetual war we’ve heard for far too long from the on-the-outs-crowd. Ask the Russians, the British Empire, Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great.
Europe ain’t Afghanistan; it’s the roof of God’s mouth after a month of bar hopping in Vegas. Hell, Mars would have been a better place to occupy. After 20 years, South Korea joined the modern world w/a booming economy; today your underwear is imported from a thriving Vietnam, unifed after America left; whilst Afghanistan has been peddling heroin and rugs for centuries. The Bill for the Afghanistan War Is $2.26 Trillion, and Still Rising. Bought or cashed-in any Afghan War Bonds lately??? Let’s raise your taxes, too- [LBJ did to pay for Vietnam.] Seem the ‘New American Century’ neocons never want to pay for any of these Mideast region ‘nation building’ wars except w/other people’ blood and treasure. But if any of ’em want to go battle with the sheepherders and heroin exporters, feel free to suit up in camo [Liz Cheney in camo- there’s a woody maker for you], join a mercenary group, grab your AR-15 and get your jollies. But not on the U.S. taxpayer’s dime under the banner of Old Glory. Enough of this crap.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:02 pm92.We may never win another war.
Nobody ever wins.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:07 pmthe mental state of the former president
Summer: New Jersey; Winter: Florida.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:12 pmBut those K-pop artists and their stans (fans) could muck things up in an instant.
urbanleftbehind (95c033) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:20 pmThings might get hot in Narciso-land..
https://news.yahoo.com/colombians-held-haitian-president-assassination-193842592.html
urbanleftbehind (95c033) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:22 pmOne of the stranger claims made after 9/11 is that even Alexander the Great had been unable to conquer Afghanistan. Strange because he conquered it easily, as anyone can find out with a few minutes of research, on either Alexander or Afghanistan.
(His successors founded a Greek kingdom that include Afghanistan, and lasted for hundreds of years.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:22 pmCultural conservatives who hate “secularism” and the fact that many Americans don’t share their religious beliefs, and who think that divisiveness today comes entirely from people who disagree with them, are romanticizing societies that allegedly have “social unity” under a common religion or some other “traditional” ideology, because those societies are the antithesis of “liberalism” in which people get to choose their religion — or none — and in which people need to make accommodations to differing beliefs. Being disillusioned by democratic governance at home, since it’s going in directions they dislike, they see some advantages in the illiberal governments of other places.
Among the New Right, there’s a lot of griping about leftists imposing “secular ideology” or whatever on them — and some of those complaints are justified — but not far below the surface, or sometimes visible, is the view that United States should have a more unified “national identity” and that it should be more explicitly Christian. Complaints about the “urban cosmopolitan elites” are in some measure complaints about pluralism and freedom of conscience.
It isn’t that the New Right openly loves the Taliban. But I’ve seen a rather too unqualified endorsement of “tradition” for its own sake — because it’s not the hated “liberalism” — and a romanticizing of “social unity” or a “holistic” view of society, regardless of how much coercion and oppression of minorities is required to achieve it.
In that view, the U.S. was “imposing” freedom of choice on people who really wanted their traditional form of coercion, or something worse.
What does “organically impose” mean? If it’s imposed, there’s no assumption that it’s organic.
Radegunda (33a224) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:33 pmThe assumption was that people everywhere want a voice in how they are governed, and that people everywhere hate to be oppressed. The basic aim of the U.S. was to give people a voice in their own destiny. Those who said “they’re not capable of self-government” were sometimes accused of arrogant condescension. (But those who thought it would be like Japan after WWII or Czechoslovakia after the Cold War were deeply misguided.)
It’s clear that a lot of people in fact welcomed the chance to have a voice. But for too many, that meant a chance to be on the side that was on top, pushing down the other guys. American policymakers didn’t understand that well enough. But it wasn’t because they were trying to “impose” Western cosmopolitanism. Some in the New Right are too inclined to see bad faith and not just naivety in the democratizing project because they’ve soured on democracy at home and are hostile to the “cosmopolitan elites” – or more specifically the neocons — who thought it would be nice if people elsewhere could get out from under tyranny.
A sane candidate with the same platform will be painted with the same brush.
He will be painted with the same brush BY HIS OPPONENTS. As were mainstream candidates like Romney, McCain and W. The difference is, though, that the paint won’t stick the same way to people who are not so EFFING intent on living up to the stereotype painted.
One could not find a better actor for the role of The Ugly American than Trump. Further. he did not have the wit to fight back — all he could do is roar and stamp his feet as the picador’s barbs went in and so he died like any dumb bull.
Sadly, his followers thought the bull was winning, and still think he will next time.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:39 pmPresident Biden could — and should — exercise his pardoning and commutation power to commute all federal death sentences to life without parole. He could, and should, order the Attorney General not to seek any further death sentences. That would not restrict a future Administration from seeking capital sentences, unless Congress eliminates capital punishment for federal crimes.
I would view a blanket pardon, or simple malfeasance as you suggest to be an impeachable offense.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:41 pmIt’s amazing how the Trumpers have been so utterly dismissive of all that polling — clinging to the one poll that looked good for Trump. “But the polls were wrong wrong wrong in 2016!” they say — as though it proves that the polls must have been even wronger this time, after the pollsters made an effort to correct their error. And the 2016 polling wasn’t all that far off. Trump still lost the popular vote by 3 million and narrowly eked out victories in a few swing states.
The only basis for the idea that a Biden win was impossible was 1) Trump’s ego, and 2) the Trumpers’ belief that real Americans couldn’t possibly disagree with them.
Radegunda (33a224) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:43 pmCapital sentences always cost more than life in prison. With a capital sentence, we are on the hook for the additional expenses of death row, and dozens of additional appeals, all in states where very few prisoners are actually executed anyway. The way we do capital punishment simply isn’t practical.
All, and I mean ALL of these costs are imposed by those who wish to festoon the death penalty with roadblocks. This is the orphan defense to killing your parents. We have dozens and dozens of appeals that are, quite obviously, delaying tactics and allowed by a cabal of judges who want to assist that delay.
We have a process of execution — designed by those opposed — that is hard to pull off because those same opposing forces have cut off the supply of drugs needed to do the job.
We have endless hand-wringing over how to painless execute a man who raped a 3yo with a broken bottle. It’s easy and the Chinese do it and the Russians do it: a small caliber gun to the back of the head. If that’s too messy for you, use a bolt gun — it’s humane for slaughtering animals.
ALL of these horrors you state are generated by the abolition lobby. Bringing up any of them is intellectually dishonest. You brought up them all.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:47 pmwith all those votes, there must’ve been some serious vote fraud to cost romney and mccain their landslides
Sarcasm noted. The point is that before, we had sane candidates with increasingly outdated platforms. With Trump we had a different direction which itself proved quite popular (as noted, Biden has co-opted his trade policies) but a candidate himself who consistently behaved like a child.
His first debate with Biden, in which he was throwing tantrum after tantrum, cost him much of the non-acolyte vote. Sure, the press tried to paint him as an ogre his whole term, but the ogre showed up at the debate and there was really nothing left to say.
A candidate who continued Trump’s trade and immigration policies, while merging them with some of the past GOP positions and bringing in the disaffected could win. If she could also think on her feet use and didn’t put ketchup on a ribeye, all the better.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:59 pmQuestion for #neverTrump folks:
If Mitt Romney had been younger, and had run in 2016 or 202o with a platform identical to Trump’s, would you have voted for him? Or was some part of Trump’s platform beyond the pale?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:02 pmSo the male mosquito should earn 2X as much per hour as the female?
steveg (ebe7c1) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:04 pmI don’t think leftist enclaves that shut out opposing voices should have the final say to speak for the nation at large.
So no, I disagree with your premise as did the Founding Fathers.
NJRob (5c712e) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:10 pmCultural conservatives who hate “secularism” and the fact that many Americans don’t share their religious beliefs, and who think that divisiveness today comes entirely from people who disagree with them, are romanticizing societies that allegedly have “social unity” under a common religion or some other “traditional” ideology
They aren’t doing anything of the kind. Considering the whining about “divisiveness” that predictably comes from the left whenever the right pushes back on their agenda with any kind of real energy, I find that particular claim to be dubious as well.
It isn’t that the New Right openly loves the Taliban. But I’ve seen a rather too unqualified endorsement of “tradition” for its own sake — because it’s not the hated “liberalism” — and a romanticizing of “social unity” or a “holistic” view of society, regardless of how much coercion and oppression of minorities is required to achieve it.
This has nothing to do with the failure of US foreign policy in the Middle East, nor of the pundits, bureaucrats, and politicians who vigorously promoted those policies in the media and ended up costing trillions in existing taxpayer dollars and future debt. It’s a manufactured narrative to distract from those very failures, and why the cultural conservatives ultimately became disenchanted with the neocons and their leadership.
It’s clear that a lot of people in fact welcomed the chance to have a voice. But for too many, that meant a chance to be on the side that was on top, pushing down the other guys
Which would have been obvious to anyone with a passing familiarity with the region’s very long history, and the history of the post-colonial third world in general.
There’s an interesting book called “The Arabs” by Eugene Rogan. I read the whole thing during my last deployment in 2017. You know what stood out as I was going through it? How readily supposed allies were to stab each other in the back over the slightest short-term advantage, even if it wasn’t the best choice for the long-term. Rogan wasn’t making that particular argument, but that reality came up time after time after time in the course of his narrative.
Why did US policy-makers think that this time, it was going to be any different, especially after a region-wide series of color revolutions in 2011 failed to bring it about?
The assumption was that people everywhere want a voice in how they are governed, and that people everywhere hate to be oppressed…Some in the New Right are too inclined to see bad faith and not just naivety in the democratizing project because they’ve soured on democracy at home and are hostile to the “cosmopolitan elites” – or more specifically the neocons — who thought it would be nice if people elsewhere could get out from under tyranny.
As I said, it’s not naivety. It’s not bad faith, either, although I don’t doubt the breadth of their cynicism and venality. It’s arrogance fueled by stupidity. It always has been.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:21 pm@98.
http://www.factinate.com/editorial/alexander-the-great...
Alexander’s campaign in Afghanistan has become a mere footnote in his legacy—perhaps because it was the region where the great warlord saw the least success. Like many other military superpowers would after him, from the British Empire to Russia to NATO, Alexander waltzed into Afghanistan with all the confidence in the world, but he left battered and bruised, with very little to show for it.
barrystrauss.com/alexander-and-afghanistan
It would be pedantic to point out that most of Alexander’s “Afghan” campaign took place outside today’s Afghanistan; most of the fighting took place in the nearby states of what are today Tadjikistan and Uzbekistan. Nonetheless, the war spilled over into Afghanistan, which served Alexander as a base. And the war did not go well.
Alexander the Great Needed Great Supply Chains | SCM Globe
http://www.scmglobe.com/alexander-the-great-needed...
Alexander’s campaign in Afghanistan and Central Asia was funded by the gold, silver, grain and tax revenues he acquired when he defeated King Darius. Costs in this supply chain are denominated in the ancient Greek coin called the drachma, which consisted of approximately 4.3 grams of silver.
Bought or sold ay Afghan War Bonds lately, Jimbo?! Of course not.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:24 pmIf Mitt Romney had been younger, and had run in 2016 or 202o with a platform identical to Trump’s, would you have voted for him? Or was some part of Trump’s platform beyond the pale?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:02 pm
Romney beat Obama in getting independent votes, so that question has probably been answered. But ultimately, it’s just a rhetorical question. Romney is who he is, and he’d promote the same agenda he always has.
Most conservatives weren’t excited about him in 2012, but still supported him even while he was getting dragged in the media for his “binders full of women” comment, the “47 percent” speech, his time at Bain, being accused of blackfacing his family with his adopted grandson, and the Democrats yukking that “the 1980s called and they want their foreign policy back.” But his performance in the second debate showed that if he didn’t have the spine to push back on a clearly biased moderator, then he wasn’t going to show any kind of strength in pushing a Republican political platform, either. He’s a good politician for Utah, which is a state of people who tend to mostly be nice, confrontation-averse types. As President, he would have gotten steamrolled.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:34 pmI didn’t mean he won every college educated suburban voter. But that’s where the big swing from Clinton to Biden happened.
Look at Kent or Oakland county Mi as examples. It’s true Biden did well in cities. But in some of them Obama did better.
If the GOP i
Time123 (e035f5) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:35 pmIs it your belief that the votes of people who live in big cities should count for much less than the votes of small-town and rural people?
To some degree it was the view of the Constitutional Convention, at least as they considered how large numbers of people concentrated in one place would tend to be easily swayed and might focus on narrow local issues. They intentionally wanted to weight the Electoral college slightly towards winning the most states instead of winning the most votes. The EC also solved several other problems, such as authenticating vote totals from distant places (they no longer had to).
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:47 pmA candidate who continued Trump’s trade and immigration policies, while merging them with some of the past GOP positions and bringing in the disaffected could win. If she could also think on her feet use and didn’t put ketchup on a ribeye, all the better.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:59 pm
Irrespective of how they feel about each other now, Pence was a good soldier during his time as VP and clearly smoked both Kaine and Harris in the VP debates. Some pundit, I don’t recall who, termed him as “Trumpism without Trump,” which would make him a pretty formidable opponent if he decided to run in 2024.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:48 pmRomney beat Obama in getting independent votes, so that question has probably been answered. But ultimately, it’s just a rhetorical question. Romney is who he is, and he’d promote the same agenda he always has.
A hypothetical question and you ignore the hypothetical. Why should I read any further?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:48 pmThe point FWO, that you ignored is that the difference was that Romney wasn’t a lying sack of diaper sh1t like Trump, and people would not have had to get past that to vote for him.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:49 pmBehind Biden’s 2020 Victory-Pew Research
……..
Overall, one-in-four 2020 voters (25%) had not voted in 2016. About a quarter of these (6% of all 2020 voters) showed up two years later – in 2018 – to cast ballots in the highest-turnout midterm election in decades. Those who voted in 2018 but not in 2016 backed Biden over Trump in the 2020 election by about two-to-one (62% to 36%).
Both Trump and Biden were able to bring new voters into the political process in 2020. The 19% of 2020 voters who did not vote in 2016 or 2018 split roughly evenly between the two candidates (49% Biden vs. 47% Trump). However, as with voters overall, there was a substantial age divide within this group. Among those under age 30 who voted in 2020 but not in either of the two previous elections, Biden led 59% to 33%, while Trump won among new or irregular voters ages 30 and older by 55% to 42%. Younger voters also made up an outsize share of these voters: Those under age 30 made up 38% of new or irregular 2020 voters, though they represented just 15% of all 2020 voters.
One somewhat unusual aspect of the 2016 election was the relatively high share of voters (nearly 6%) who voted for one of the third-party candidates (mostly the Libertarian and Green Party nominees), a fact many observers attributed to the relative unpopularity of both major party candidates. By comparison, just 2% of voters chose a third-party candidate in 2020. ……
Here are some of the other key findings from the analysis:
This analysis is based on a survey of 11,818 members of Pew Research Center’s American Trends Panel conducted Nov. 12-17, 2020, shortly after the general election. It also draws on surveys conducted among 10,640 panelists from Nov. 7-16, 2018, after the midterm election that year and 4,183 panelists from Nov. 29 to Dec. 12, 2016, after the general election. Researchers attempted to match the panelists to three different commercial voter files that contain official records of voter registration and turnout for 2016, 2018 and 2020. (For more details, see Methodology.)
This study marries official turnout records with a post-election survey among a large, ongoing survey panel, with the goal of improving the accuracy of the results compared with relying on self-reported turnout alone. The survey panel also makes it possible to examine change in turnout and vote preference over time among many of the same individuals. This analysis joins a growing body of research seeking to achieve a more accurate assessment of the 2020 election……..
Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:58 pm………
How should we teach our children about our history?
There is a brief example in Heinlein’s Starship Troopers describing how history used to be taught. Juan Rico, who tells the story, mentions Ramon Magsaysay to his friend, Bennie Montez, who admits never having heard of Magsaysay:
What Heinlein was describing was universal, or nearly so, at the time: Nations taught their children slanted versions of history, in order to strengthen their loyalty to each nation. (Note that this can be done, without falsehoods, simply by selecting those parts of a nation’s history that are admirable, and leaving out other parts.)
And this way of teaching history is probably still found in more nations than not–and certainly found in nations governed by “Czar” Putin, “Emperor” Xi, and similar miscreants.
Which brings me to this question: Should we still teach history that way? (I imagine we do in some classrooms.) If not, how should we teach it?
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:59 pmA hypothetical question and you ignore the hypothetical. Why should I read any further?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 2:48 pm
The point FWO, that you ignored is that the difference was that Romney wasn’t a lying sack of diaper sh1t like Trump, and people would not have had to get past that to vote for him.
You have no idea what the outcome of an election like that would be. But hey, if you want to make this personal, let’s have at it.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:09 pmAlexander was so “battered and bruised” by his campaign in Afghanistan that he marched on into India, and his Greek successors governed the area for hundreds of years after his death. (By the way, that “factinate” link does work. The second link supports my argument.)
While you are doing your research, you might want to check out Genghis Khan and Afghanistan, too.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:25 pmDCSCA wrote:
Adolf Hitler was unavailable for comment.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:29 pm@120. So was FDR.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:34 pmMr M wrote:
Didn’t you vote for Mr Biden?
Such is clearly within the President’s power; Presidents have issued sentence commutations before, and they have withstood any and all challenges. President Andrew Johnson pardoned all of the Confederates, and President Jimmy Carter issued a blanket amnesty for draft dodgers.
At least as far as what is legal, the test of “high crimes and misdemeanors” fails; such would not be a crime under the law.
In 2020, Biden ran for president on a platform that advocated eliminating the federal death penalty, and he won the election; it’s not like doing so would be somehow violating a campaign promise. We all knew what he said he would do if elected. If you voted for Mr Biden, you were concomitantly voting for the policies he proposed.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:39 pmThanks for beating the subjects, General Washington.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:43 pmCandy Crowley of CNN made mittens look like the loser he is. Obama never laid a glove on mittens that night, but Candy beat mittens with her purse.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:47 pmCorrection: The factinate link does not work.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:48 pmSpeaking of female mosquitoes: As I understand it, the DEET repellant works by jamming their terminal homing. It makes it harder for them to smell us.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:52 pmMr M wrote:
Well, of course we do! And I’m guessing that you aren’t actually suggesting that prisoners have no right to appeal.
Every state in the union which retains capital punishment, liberal and conservative alike, has opted for ‘lethal injection’ as its primary method of execution. Conservatives as well as liberals voted for those changes.
Hanging was the preferred method of execution when the Eighth Amendment was ratified, and capital punishment was then legal in every state; it’s clear that we can execute someone, constitutionally, using a $2.95 rope we can buy at any Home Depot. But the legislators in every one of our states chose to do away with hanging.
Of course they are all brought up by the pro-life lobby! It isn’t intellectually dishonest for me to bring them up, because they are our present day reality; we have to deal with what exists. A couple of states have recently tried to add electrocution or the firing squad as legal methods of execution, since the drugs are being withheld, but unless I missed it, none of them have tried to add that $2.95 rope.
It’ll be an interesting legal test, one that you know will happen. If a murderer committed a capital offense when the state’s only legal method of execution was lethal injection, and the state later added the electric chair, would it not be an ex post facto punishment if the state could only fry him, not inject him?
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/10/2021 @ 3:55 pmI read that china mitch is funding the super pac for the residing Alaska senator. He campaigned on repealing obamacare forever. She voted for obamacare. These people are pathetic.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:13 pmhttps://townhall.com/columnists/humbertofontova/2021/07/10/longest-suffering-political-prisoner-in-modern-history-of-hemisphere-dies-in-miami-media-silent-n2592298
mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:24 pmbeing anti commie will get you very little press
We should not execute women. Period. It’s un-, dis-, and anti- everything that’s good and American.
If we want to speed up the pace of men’s executions, I suggest we adopt the method of locking up the condemned with around the clock shifts of half a dozen nymphomaniacs per shift for as long as it takes (which probably will not very long). With a few exceptions, I expect the only post-conviction proceedings will be the condemned petitioning to be moved up the wait-list.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:25 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 1:59 pm
I really hope this unicorn shows up. Are any on the horizon?
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:31 pmnk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:25 pm
What was the comedy movie that had a scene where a condemned man was chased off of a cliff by bare-breasted women, who fell to his death, landing neatly in his prepared grave?
felipe (484255) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:45 pmMonty Python’s The Meaning of Life.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:48 pmRip, thank you for the day in 116
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:54 pmVideo. NSFW
But isn’t that totally British, though? A normal man would have been running toward them.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:56 pmUnless he remembered the advice of the old bull to the young bull, in which case he would amble toward them.
nk (1d9030) — 7/10/2021 @ 4:58 pmYou have no idea what the outcome of an election like that would be. But hey, if you want to make this personal, let’s have at it.
The question was not addressed to you in the first place. It was addressed to people like Dustin, Patterico, nk, Rip, etc, who could not bring themselves to vote for Donald Trump regardless of his policy positions.
If it had been an honest candidate with the same positions, would they have voted for him or her?
This is the big disconnect. The Trump fans think that previous Republicans disliked Trump due to the changes he made in policy, but that is generally not the case. They opposed him due to his behavior, dishonesty and general boorishness. They might not have liked every policy provision (e.g. his dealings with the Norks), but they could have gone along.
But Trump himself was beyond the pale.
Meanwhile, the people who supported Trump ALSO supported his policies. Were he to leave the scene, they will support someone else who supports the same policies. It doesn’t have to be Yosemite Sam on Angel Dust for most of them.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:00 pmEvery state in the union which retains capital punishment, liberal and conservative alike, has opted for ‘lethal injection’ as its primary method of execution. Conservatives as well as liberals voted for those changes.
After court after court started making noises about how cruel it was for there to be a little pain.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:02 pmDidn’t you vote for Mr Biden?
No, I voted for Jo Jorgenson as the least awful. I considered leaving it blank.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:04 pmI really hope this unicorn shows up. Are any on the horizon?
None of them will try to ruin if Trump is in the race. There’s no profit in standing between the lemmings and the cliff.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:05 pmOf course they are all brought up by the pro-life lobby! It isn’t intellectually dishonest for me to bring them up, because they are our present day realit
Your side CREATEDS these horrors. Never bothered me in the least.
Back before 1960, California executed 5-10 prisoners a year, after trials and a few appeals. Most of them were in the “we are damn sure” category, although a handful of them (maybe 5 in 50 years) were not murderers (it was a capital offense for an incarcerated felon to assault a guard, or for the kidnap and rape of a child).
Since then, with little prospect of execution, prosecutors and juries issue the death penalty with abandon, with little concern that they might actually be responsible for someone’s execution. This means that the bar of certainty has lowered and many more people than otherwise are on death row. Instead of a punishment and a possible deterrent, it has become a counting coup and resume-padder.
You are right it’s a joke, but only because the will of the people is stymied by unelected overlords.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:14 pmWoman faces a year in prison for stomping a ‘Back the Blue’ sign and ‘smirking in an intimidating manner’
…….
According to the affidavit of probable cause, a Garfield County police officer was conducting a traffic stop for speeding at a gas station when the officer saw a woman “stomping on a ‘Back the Blue’ sign next to where the traffic stop was conducted, crumble it up in a destructive manner and throw it into a trash can all while smirking in an intimidating manner towards me.”
…….
After reading the woman her Miranda rights, the officer stated she gave “inconsistent stories” about where she found the sign, eventually stating she found it on the ground.
“Due to [the woman] destroying property that did not belong to her in a manner to attempt to intimidate law enforcement, I placed her under arrest,” the affidavit says.
According to the affidavit, the allegations are being treated as a “hate crime enhanced allegation” due to “the demeanor displayed by [the woman] in attempts to intimidate law enforcement while destroying a ‘Pro Law Enforcement’ sign.”
Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:15 pm……..
The woman faces up to a year in prison or a fine of up to $2,500.
>>>>>>>>
I would be very surprised if this woman is prosecuted. It is clearly protected by the First Amendment. The cop needs remedial training on free speech.
The federal government has abused the trust citizens have traditionally had in it and institutions…
Here are the facts – actual, confirmed facts – that shape their perspective: 1) The FBI/etc spied on the 2016 Trump campaign using evidence manufactured by the Clinton campaign. We now know that all involved knew it was fake from Day 1 (see: Brennan’s July 2016 memo, etc). 3/x
These are Tea Party people. The types who give their kids a pocket Constitution for their birthday and have Founding Fathers memes in their bios. The intel community spying on a presidential campaign using fake evidence (incl forged documents) is a big deal to them. 4/x
Everyone involved lied about their involvement as long as they could. We only learned the DNC paid for the manufactured evidence because of a court order. Comey denied on TV knowing the DNC paid for it, when we have emails from a year earlier proving that he knew. 5/x
This was true with everyone, from CIA Dir Brennan & Adam Schiff – who were on TV saying they’d seen clear evidence of collusion w/Russia, while admitting under oath behind closed doors that they hadn’t – all the way down the line. In the end we learned that it was ALL fake. 6/x
At first, many Trump ppl were worried there must be some collusion, because every media & intel agency wouldn’t make it up out of nothing. When it was clear that they had made it up, people expected a reckoning, and shed many illusions about their gov’t when it didn’t happen. 7/x
We know as fact: a) The Steele dossier was the sole evidence used to justify spying on the Trump campaign, b) The FBI knew the Steele dossier was a DNC op, c) Steele’s source told the FBI the info was unserious, d) they did not inform the court of any of this and kept spying. 8/x
Trump supporters know the collusion case front and back. They went from worrying the collusion must be real, to suspecting it might be fake, to realizing it was a scam, then watched as every institution – agencies, the press, Congress, academia – gaslit them for another year. 9/x
Worse, collusion was used to scare people away from working in the administration. They knew their entire lives would be investigated. Many quit because they were being bankrupted by legal fees. The DoJ, press, & gov’t destroyed lives and actively subverted an elected admin.10/x
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1413165168956088321.html
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:29 pm‘Financially Hobbled for Life’: The Elite Master’s Degrees That Don’t Pay Off
Recent film program graduates of Columbia University who took out federal student loans had a median debt of $181,000.
Yet two years after earning their master’s degrees, half of the borrowers were making less than $30,000 a year.
The Columbia program offers the most extreme example of how elite universities in recent years have awarded thousands of master’s degrees that don’t provide graduates enough early career earnings to begin paying down their federal student loans, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of Education Department data.
Recent Columbia film alumni had the highest debt compared with earnings among graduates of any major university master’s program in the U.S., the Journal found. …….
……..
Lured by the aura of degrees from top-flight institutions, many master’s students at universities across the U.S. took on debt beyond what their pay would support, the Journal analysis of federal data on borrowers found. At Columbia, such students graduated from programs including history, social work and architecture.
……..
Undergraduate students for years have faced ballooning loan balances. But now it is graduate students who are accruing the most onerous debt loads. Unlike undergraduate loans, the federal Grad Plus loan program has no fixed limit on how much grad students can borrow—money that can be used for tuition, fees and living expenses.
It has become the fastest-growing federal student loan program and charged interest rates as high as 7.9% in recent years.
The no-limit loans make master’s degrees a gold mine for universities, which have expanded graduate-school offerings since Congress created Grad Plus in 2005. Graduate students are for the first time on track to have borrowed as much as undergraduates in the 2020-21 academic year, federal loan data show.
……..
Highly selective universities have benefited from free-flowing federal loan money, and with demand for spots far exceeding supply, the schools have been able to raise tuition largely unchecked. The power of legacy branding lets prestigious universities say, in effect, that their degrees are worth whatever they charge.
………
Columbia grad students who borrowed money typically held loans that exceeded annual earnings two years after graduation in 14 of the school’s 32 master’s degree programs tracked by the Education Department, the Journal found. In about a dozen Columbia master’s programs, the majority of recent graduates weren’t repaying the principal on their loans or took forbearance, according to data released for the first time this year.
Julie Kornfeld, Columbia’s vice provost for academic programs, said master’s degrees “can and should be a revenue source” subsidizing other parts of the university. She also said grad students need more financial support.
……..
Debt counselors recommend students not borrow more than they will earn right out of school. Yet about 38% of master’s programs at top-tier private universities in the U.S. failed that test, according to the Journal’s analysis of salary data for graduates from the 2015 and 2016 classes, the latest available.
At for-profit schools, a common target of regulators for high student debt and poor job prospects, 30% failed to meet the debt counselors’ advice.
Whether or not students should have better weighed the personal consequences of borrowing heavily to pursue lower-paying careers, the burden is far-reaching. After 20 to 25 years on an income-dependent payment plan, the balance on Grad Plus loans—roughly $11.2 billion issued in the school year that ended in 2020—can be forgiven. Taxpayers will bear any losses.
At least 43% of the people who recently took out loans for master’s degrees at elite private universities hadn’t paid down any of their original debt or were behind on payments roughly two years after graduation, the available data show.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:48 pm……….
Sounds like common sense is not so common among those who seek vanity degrees.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:51 pmColonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:29 pm
It’s important to remember that this was set in motion prior to Trump taking office in response to his behavior, dishonesty and general boorishness. Some of the people involved in that were “lifelong traditional conservatives”. All of them lied, some betrayed important positions of trust and authority, and all of them will tell you they are True Americans.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:52 pmRip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:15 pm
Hate crime laws are awesome. I’m surprised she didn’t get charged with terroristic threats.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:58 pmIf it had been an honest candidate with the same positions, would they have voted for him or her?
Which is why I mentioned Pence, who actually promoted every single one of those positions during his time in the VP seat.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:02 pmLured by the aura of degrees from top-flight institutions, many master’s students at universities across the U.S. took on debt beyond what their pay would support, the Journal analysis of federal data on borrowers found.
It’s important to remember that this isn’t just an issue at the “top-flight” (and I use that term loosely) institutions; it’s been an issue for several years now across the board.
This whole push by the radical left for Biden to declare a student debt jubilee is a tacit admission that a college degree, even at the graduate level, isn’t worth the return on investment anymore, after decades of data showing that people with degrees tend to make more money over their careers. We have a classic oversaturation of “elites” and not enough good-paying jobs for them to fill, and exponentially rising tuition increases that have even outstripped inflation for years now.
At one time, there was an understanding that getting a degree increased your chances of getting a better job, but it wasn’t a guarantee, and you’d probably have to put in the work for several years before finding that type of job. The entitlement and increasing obsession with equity that marks the last 20 years or so of the left-liberal consensus changed that expectation. The irony is that a good number of them could have learned a blue-collar trade and gotten out of that with far less debt, but they were raised to believe that’s something only ill-read, ignorant rubes or immigrants should do, certainly not anything that would comprise a fulfilling career for an educated person.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:26 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:05 pm
That doesn’t sound like a true American hero. Are they shy? Why wouldn’t someone capable of matching Trump on the issues and not driving away the true-cons not be able to beat trump? With your theory they’d get more votes by merging the light and dark sides of the force.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/10/2021 @ 5:00 pm
I keep getting a Bridge over the River Kwai vibe. We’re lucky that bridge went boom.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/10/2021 @ 8:29 pmTick-tock; tick-tock; https://www.spacelaunchschedule.com/
Tune in to watch and see if Richard Branson becomes Sunday brunch as a smear of strawberry jam across the toasty New Mexico dawn or repeats what NASA and the United States Air Force already accomplished 59 year ago with the X-15.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/10/2021 @ 9:40 pmhttps://www.campusreform.org/article?id=17776
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/10/2021 @ 10:49 pm“Destructive acts against churches may be viewed as legitimate acts of resistance, some professors argue.”
I wonder what got everyone all riled up.
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:32 pmhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-09/gas-sellers-reaped-11-billion-windfall-during-texas-freeze
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:42 pmThe first X-15 flight was an unpowered glide flight by Scott Crossfield, on 8 June 1959. Crossfield also piloted the first powered flight on 17 September 1959, and his first flight with the XLR-99 rocket engine on 15 November 1960. Twelve test pilots flew the X-15. Among these were Neil Armstrong, later a NASA astronaut and the first man to set foot on the Moon, and Joe Engle, later a commander of NASA Space Shuttle missions.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:32 amI miss the space talk of the 60’s. It brought us together.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:36 amWow, Arson and violent crimes are never acceptable and the perpetrators need to be caught. Even if the discovery of many hundreds of unmarked graves for children is outrageous there are better ways to address it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57626410
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:32 amMr M wrote:
In English grammar, properly understood, the masculine subsumes the feminine, so when the sex of a person is unknown, the masculine pronouns are properly used, and do not imply that the person to whom they refer is male. When the feminine pronouns are used, they specifically indicate that the person to whom they refer is female. ‘Twould appear that the distinguished Mr M has referred is a a (hopefully cisgender) woman.
I respectfully dissent: all Presidents should be heterosexual cisgendered white males. That is all.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:23 amMr M wrote:
Were that their concern, they could have made lethal injection an option for execution, rather than the only method.
If we are going to have capital punishment, they should all be hangings, and all be done in public, as we are saying that execution of criminals is in the public’s interest. Let the people see what is being done in their names.
But the real answer is that we should do away with capital punishment. It serves no deterrent value, in that we keep the condemned locked up for a couple of decades before we put them to sleep like an unwanted puppy in the pound. More, it helps the pro-life argument; we are weakened by being opposed to abortion but not to execution. The only difference between abortion and execution is the reasons given for killing someone.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:31 amWell-bred persons have used “they” for at least 100 years in conversation when the hypothetical subject could be of either gender even when it is understood that it is singular. Newspeak is not necessarily new.
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:40 amSwalwell probably gets mixed up with 3 or 4 ideological stripes of this:
https://news.yahoo.com/survivor-contestant-worked-undercover-honey-090044384.html
urbanleftbehind (8dffd1) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:48 am@160 With all due respect, nk, the use of the word ‘gender’ is misplaced. Humans do not have ‘genders’. Gender is a grammatical term used to represent the sex a noun or pronoun refers to. There are two sexes, male (XY) and female (XX). There are no other sexes, as there are only two.
Individual persons may be heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. It doesn’t matter to me how persons choose to live their lives. What matters to me is the mangling of grammar. But people have been mangling grammar ever since grammar was invented.
Gawain's Ghost (ef1cde) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:28 amWhat a country, eh, urbanleftbehind? America! I love it!
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:28 am4 arrested at Maven Hotel, police feared a ‘Las Vegas style shooting’ during All-Star Game in Denver
Police feared a “Las Vegas style shooting” during the All-Star Game in Denver after receiving a tip from a maid working at a hotel not far from Coors Field, who discovered more than a dozen weapons and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition inside one of the rooms Friday night.
……..
Sources said police removed 16 long guns, body armor and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition from the room which featured a balcony overlooking the downtown area. The sources said they feared the number of weapons, ammo, vantage point and large crowds could have resulted in a “Las Vegas style shooting.”
………
One of the suspects arrested Friday night had posted a message on Facebook referencing a recent divorce and saying he was going to “go out in a big way,” according to the multiple law enforcement sources.
………..
In total, three men and one woman were arrested Friday night, along with two vehicles which were also impounded to be processed for possible evidence.
…….
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:29 amWalt Whitman famously wrote, “I too am not a bit tamed. I too am untranslatable. I sound by barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world!”
He was an onanist. In other words, a masturbate.
Gawain's Ghost (ef1cde) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:40 amWith all due respect, nk, the use of the word ‘gender’ is misplaced. Humans do not have ‘genders’. Gender is a grammatical term used to represent the sex a noun or pronoun refers to.
I entirely agree, Gawain’s Ghost. I did wonder whether I should write “the hypothetical subject could be of either sex” in my comment, and went with “gender” because the topic was terms of speech. If you say I should have gone with “either sex” (no double entendre intended), it’s advice I appreciate.
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:42 amJF (e1156d) — 7/9/2021 @ 8:48 pm
Trump isn’t claiming that Biden has mentally deteriorated. He didn’t do it in his interview before the election with Rush Limbaugh and he didn’t do now with Bill O’Reilly.
Trump says Biden was always this way.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:46 am143. They never spied on the \Trump campaign, nor on any people still working in the campaign.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:47 amWell that’s weird…the penny ante Chicago version of a similar hotel bust involved an I.O.W.A. -an, 1 rifle, four magazines and a marriage proposal instead of a D party.
urbanleftbehind (8dffd1) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:48 amThe point being that ‘gender’ is a grammatical term used to refer to the sex a noun or pronoun refers to. People do not have a ‘gender’. There are two and only two sexes, male (XY) and female (XX).
A person may be a heterosexual, a homosexual, a bisexual, or a masterbate. It really doesn’t matter to me, as I could care less. What matters to me is the mangling of grammar. But then people have been mangling grammar ever since grammar was invented.
Gawain's Ghost (ef1cde) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:49 amRip Murdock (80e6b4) — 7/10/2021 @ 11:28 am
“Determine their own fate!!!”
Nice sounding false words.
The Taliban are supported by the Pakistani military
This would be more true of what’s going in in Haiti – except that some outsiders killed the president.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:50 amWe know for a fact that many people who have been exonerated thanks to new evidence or new facts from previously uncovered evidence would have been executed but for the lengthy appeals process. It’s a virtual certainty that innocent people have been actually executed, too. I’m quite sure that had people in the first category been executed you’d put it in the “for damn sure” category.
If you think that innocent people dying are an acceptable trade-off (I think the best argument in that regard would probably be that if the death penalty was carried out so soon after conviction then there’d be an actual deterrent effect and therefore way fewer murders), then fine. But let’s not pretend speedier executions won’t have very real costs.
JohnnyAgreeable (4178dc) — 7/11/2021 @ 7:40 am168… that’s unadulterated BS, Sammy.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:01 am@168 You’re not likely to get people to acknowledge facts on this that challenge the story they’re invested in. That twitter thread is most accurately viewed as a statement of belief taken on faith then conclusions based on fact.
Time123 (680c4b) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:08 amIf we are going to have capital punishment, they should all be hangings, and all be done in public, as we are saying that execution of criminals is in the public’s interest. Let the people see what is being done in their names.
I agree, and the jury should attend. They should have moral certainty before they cast that vote. As I said before, when they did these things expeditiously — there is no deterrent value after a 20 year delay — they did not do it often, and far fewer people were sentenced to die since it was a real thing to judges and jurors.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:33 amWe know for a fact that many people who have been exonerated thanks to new evidence or new facts from previously uncovered evidence would have been executed but for the lengthy appeals process.
An unreal joke of a death penalty makes the jury’s vote posturing, and some prosecutors may rationalize away their misgivings in a way they would not otherwise.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:37 amI think that the tide of public opinion turned circa 1960, coincident with Perry Mason proving all those “guilty” defendants were really innocent.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:38 amI agree, and the jury should attend.
And executions should be televised, since they are performed in the name of society.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:28 amProsecutors say spreadsheets from Trump Organization offer a road map for its indictment. Where the investigation goes now is the question.
………
In documents filed in the New York Supreme Court last week, prosecutors claimed that the company had spent 15 years paying its chief financial officer “off the books,” giving him cars, an apartment, tuition payments and cash that were hidden from income tax authorities.
But at the same time, according to allegations included in the indictment, the Trump Organization also was keeping internal spreadsheets that tallied the payments that were being hidden.
Prosecutors treated the spreadsheets as the accounting equivalent of a confession. They said the ledgers themselves showed the size of the fraud, estimating that the CFO alone had avoided paying more than $900,000 in taxes. And that concealment, they said, showed that the Trump Organization knew it was wrong.
………
………[E]xperts said the spreadsheets — at least as described by prosecutors — made the case against Weisselberg sound daunting for him.
“If you pay your employees under the table, a good rule of thumb is not to write it down,” said Daniel Hemel, a law professor at the University of Chicago.
Hemel said the ledger is likely to have made the decision to bring charges an easy one for Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr. (D) and New York Attorney General Letitia James (D): “It’s a big amount of money. It’s blatant violation of the law. And it’s well-documented.”
…….
At a Saturday night rally(on July 3rd) in Sarasota, Fla., Trump followed in that vein, accusing prosecutors of “weaponizing” the law against him. But he did not dispute their accusations.
………
His son Donald Trump Jr. earlier compared the case to the Russian government’s imprisonment of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, a critic of Vladimir Putin.
………
As alleged by prosecutors in the charging documents, the Trump Organization lowered the level of income taxes for at least some of its executives, and payroll taxes for the company, by converting some of their salaries into other benefits.
Then, the documents allege, they hid those benefits from tax authorities, reporting only the part of the salaries that appeared on paychecks. They said Weisselberg alone got more than $1.7 million of untaxed income.
But at the same time, according to charging documents, the Trump Organization wanted to make sure it did not overpay Weisselberg beyond the $940,000 he was supposed to make every year.
The result was the spreadsheets, in which the company allegedly tracked how much of Weisselberg’s salary had been converted into untaxed pay, the charging documents claimed.
……..
Legal experts said it was rare in tax-fraud cases to find that a company had kept clear records of its actions.
“You’ve got to get behind somebody’s mind. Did they understand what they were doing?” said Philip Hackney, a law professor at the University of Pittsburgh who previously worked in the IRS’s Office of Chief Counsel.
Hackney said that — if prosecutors are accurately describing the Trump Organization’s internal spreadsheets — those records would be strong evidence that Weisselberg knew the untaxed payments were income.
“You’ve got a physical manifestation of knowledge,” he said. “Which is a pretty uncommon thing to have.”
It was unclear, from the indictments, how prosecutors obtained the internal spreadsheets. …….
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:43 am……..
Anyone else see this from JD Vance?
https://twitter.com/jdvance1/status/1414029247446982658?s=21
I think the most interesting part of it is the contempt it shows for the people it’s aimed at.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:43 am#LegoInsurrection…
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Screen-Shot-2021-07-11-at-8.24.42-AM-600×552.png
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:43 amRip, another good link.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:45 amThanks, T123.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:50 amThere’s not much new or profound to say about capital punishment. As a conservative, I’m conflicted. On one hand, I inherently don’t trust the competency of government….and with execution, there’s no coming back from one bad or corrupt decision. On the other hand, I want the punishment to be proportional to the crime….and some crimes are expecially heinous. Recently, my default would be to ratchet up the evidence to essentially “no doubt”…..caught red handed….where there is no theory that the state could have gotten it wrong. Still, there is an itchiness associated with the state killing when there is no imminent threat….someone is locked away. I understand that there could still be crimes committed while incarcerated….even murder….and that for some, incarceration is what they’ve known for much of their lives anyways…it may not be particularly proportional to the crime.
Since we want to make sure to get it right…meaning appeals and time….the deterrence element of this does not persuade me much. This is about retribution…..Old Testament style. The New Testament might suggest opportunities for redemption….or even forgiveness…..but that’s certainly a harder path. We may want to hesitate to see the state killing, but we also give law enforcement authority every day to use deadly force….and see sometimes how that ends badly.
Still, I believe in federalism and different states coming to different conclusions about complex moral questions. I don’t see one argument being so universally true to compel all venues to have to accept it (ie a national ban). Representative democracy is imperfect…but it’s what we got.
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:59 amTabbi should know that whatabouts get rejected by people steeped in they’re invested in.
BuDuh (6e9567) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:01 amLori Lightfoot’s greatest constituent wrote:
So, you are saying that well-bred persons don’t understand grammar?
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:02 am….steeped in stories they are invested in.
BuDuh (6e9567) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:02 am“Facts” – until those proffering are under oath – as far as he understands them…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:08 am@155. The comparison is to reaching what constitutes “space” which neither Armstrong nor Crossfield ever did piloting the X-15, though several other pilots/aviators did, among them Joe Engle, Bob Walker and the legendary Pete Knight– multiple decades ago,in a rocket-powered aircraft dropped from a carrier plane then glides to a desert landing. Sound familiar?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15
What Branson did today was a marketing stunt to ‘test the customer experience’ as he says, from a commercial POV; to bigfoot rocketeer Bezos an little more than an X-15 redux from an aviation POV– w/polished engineer advances thanks to a fellow who deserves much more mention and credit for today’s Branson’s stunt: Burt Rutan; the X-Prize SpaceShipOne hangs in the atrium at the NASM in Washington.
The problem w/these billionaires- several of which who’ve have gone to great lengths to avoid paying taxes yet tap government financing to subsidize and play out their personal whims- is the ultimate viability of what they’re doing–and why.
In my den is a framed front page of the London Times from March, 1969, headlined and pictured w/this nifty new advance in aviation certain to replace conventional jetliners by moving passengers around the world at record speeds and across the Atlantic on the lucrative America/Europe run at Mach 2 in a couple of hours: the Anglo-French Concorde.
Yes, it was a sleek, sexy, groovy; neat-o aeroplane, put convention passenger jets to slow-poke shame and flew like a bat out of Hell. Just ultimately not very practical: unfortunately, “in 1997, the round-trip ticket price from New York to London was $7,995 (equivalent to $12,900 in 2020) more than 30 times the cost of the cheapest option to fly this route.” – source, wikialbatoss4richfolks.oops.
Concordes are now literally novelty museum pieces. So too will be Branson’s X-15 redux jaunts peddling 50 miles arcs and 2 minutes of weightless at a quarter million dollars per thrill ride.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:09 amWell-bred persons make grammar.
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:13 amCH, you’re smart enough that you likely know that thread is wrong. You just like to lie.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:15 amI should say, before I introduce this Cass Sunstein/Adrian Vermeule article, that I consider their statistical conclusion (along with other evidence) persuasive, but not conclusive. (It’s a difficult problem.)
From the abstract
Note, please, the “as many” qualification.
When I was looking into the question of deterrence years ago, I found that economists often found that the death penalty was a deterrent, and that sociologists did not.
If you aren’t familiar with Sunstein, look him up on Wikipedia.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:17 amTaibbi should know that whatabouts get rejected by people steeped in they’re invested in.
Taibbi should know better
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:18 amthenthan that.Mr Liberty wrote:
But even the most heinous of crimes, the crimes for which we specify the death penalty, the punishment doesn’t really fit the crime. James Byrd was dragged to death for something like three miles; his killers got put to sleep like unwanted puppies at the pound. We have murderers who have killed people in all sorts of shocking, torturous ways, and even when we execute their killers, we try to do it as gently as possible. Lethal injection is supposed to be virtually painless, and even in hanging, we use the ‘drop’ method, an attempt to break the neck so that the condemned man dies as quickly as possible.
Unless we bring back burning at the stake, or perhaps crucifixion, we will never come close to proportional punishment for some of these guys.
Not counting the 13 federal executions President Trump got through at the end of his term, there were 17 executions in all of 2020, and just 5 so far in 2021. It’s kind of difficult to argue that executions are necessary when we just don’t carry them out that often.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:20 amI never had to select a death penalty case, but I’ve had to read dozens of voir dire transcripts over the years and I don’t think that’s true at all.
This is also a nice example of how people will selectively believe that juries absolutely follow the law and what the judge instructs them for some things, but not others.
JohnnyAgreeable (4178dc) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:20 amDozens of death penalty selection voir dire transcripts, that is.
JohnnyAgreeable (4178dc) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:21 amThe desire to see proportionate punishment is understandable from a pure animalistic emotional standpoint, but people who actually want to see it carried out and would be happy to see it terrify me.
JohnnyAgreeable (4178dc) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:25 amMr M wrote:
My brother!
Since President Trump was going to carry the Bluegrass State by a wide margin, I knew that my individual vote didn’t matter, and Mrs Pico, who hates Donald Trump with a passion which makes our esteemed host look like a Trumpelstiltskin, I humored her by voting for Mrs Jorgensen, and even sent her a picture of my ballot.
Were the presidential race one in which the popular vote was decisive, I would have voted for Mr Trump.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:26 amIn his fascinating book, Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue, John McWhorter argues that we should go ahead and use “they” to refer to one person, of unspecified gender. He mentions precedents from fine writers, so you will be in good company if you take his advice.
(The French have an indefinite pronoun, “on”, that can serve the same purpose, and others.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:29 amYeah, I’ve always found something like: “A witness saw the blue car hit the red car. He or she then…” clumsy and distracting.
JohnnyAgreeable (4178dc) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:37 amTo clarify my 197: I’m not terrified of such people on an individual level/basis. If someone did some of the things I’ve had to read about to my friends or family, I’d want them to suffer. I just don’t think any good can come from it on a society-wide basis if governments were authorized to do such things.
JohnnyAgreeable (4178dc) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:41 am199 and 200. We have a triumvirate!
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:48 amJD Vance is a political opportunist of the first order:
Allahpundit: J.D. Vance: Please don’t judge me by my 2016 tweets criticizing Trump
…….(The Ohio Republican Senate primary is) the most balls-out MAGA panderfest of any election in the country, a raw competition to prove oneself the most fawning Trump acolyte in the field. Part of the reason is that Trump’s endorsement is expected to be decisive in a state he won easily twice; the candidates aren’t just competing for votes, they’re competing in a real-world version of “The Apprentice” to be crowned heir apparent by the king himself.
There are three contenders, each plausible as the eventual nominee. Jane Timken is the establishment choice, formerly the chair of the Ohio GOP who’s since reinvented herself as a Trumpist in order to get right with you-know-who. ……. Next is Josh Mandel, a former Senate candidate who’s rebranded as a populist so hardcore that his candidacy sometimes feels like MAGA performance art……..
Mandel doesn’t have Timken’s political connections so he’s going to try to win the Trump sweepstakes with pure, uncut, red-in-tooth-and-claw nationalism. Then there’s Vance, the guy with the dream resume…… He’s something of a middle-ground option between Timken and Mandel, a political newbie rather than an operator like her but also too thoughtful to indulge in Mandel’s demagogic sloganeering.….. (But) Vance has a problem. Not only was he not pro-Trump originally, he was outspoken in criticizing the former president.
So strong was his disdain that he said he’d vote for Evan McMullin in 2016, once describing Trump as “reprehensible” due to his immigration policies and insisting that “God wants better of us”……
“Fellow Christians, everyone is watching us when we apologize for this man. Lord help us,” he tweeted on October 7, 2016, the day the “Access Hollywood” tape surfaced.
All of those tweets have now been memory-holed, which Vance would say is because he no longer agrees with the sentiments. I don’t believe him. No one who thought Trump was unfit for office in 2016 would come away feeling disabused of that belief after living through the “stop the steal” campaign and insurrection. Vance changed his tune for the same reason so many other Republican candidates look the other way at what happened during the post-election period, because they’re running for office and realize there’s no path in a Republican primary without Trump’s favor. At the very, very least, even if Vance doesn’t get Trump’s endorsement in Ohio, he wants to earn some praise from the former president so that primary voters who are inclined to support him won’t feel they’re betraying Trump by doing so.
……..Vance, who coincidentally needs something from Trump, has only grown fonder of him over time. Whatever one might think of Vance’s character, he’s responding rationally to incentives: All sorts of ambitious Republicans are running next year on the core issue not of crime or the deficit but the election having supposedly been stolen. The surest way to electoral success in a primary is to flatter Trump’s ego, and nothing makes him happier than having his favorite conspiracy theory indulged.
……..
Some things can’t quite disappear completely though:
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:59 am#135
steveg (ebe7c1) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:14 amMaybe he has sexual dyslexia and was taking the long way ’round
Trump on Jan. 6 insurrection: ‘These were great people’
……..
Echoing his rhetoric about the 2017 white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., Trump said, “These were peaceful people, these were great people.”
Speaking on “Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Bartiromo” on the Fox News Channel, he also said the rally participants were patriots, that some of them were unjustly arrested and jailed, and that a woman who was shot and killed by law enforcement during the insurrection was a great hero.
The remarks reflected recent efforts by Trump and his supporters to cast themselves as the aggrieved parties from the Jan. 6 riot……..
………
“The crowd was unbelievable and I mentioned the word ‘love,’ the love in the air, I’ve never seen anything like it,” he said of his rally on the Ellipse. “That’s why they went to Washington.”
He added: “Too much spirit and faith and love, there was such love at that rally, you had over a million people,” inflating the size of his rally crowd.
……..
Trump and Bartiromo both expressed outrage over the fatal shooting of Ashli Babbitt within the Capitol, implying repeatedly that there was a cover-up at work. Babbitt, an Air Force veteran, was fatally shot as she tried to climb through a broken window during the insurrection.
“Who is the person that shot an innocent, wonderful, incredible woman, a military woman, right in the head?” Trump said. “There is no repercussion — that were on the other side, it would be the biggest story in this country. Who shot Ashli Babbitt? People want to know and why.”
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:18 am……..
Referring to his remarks to the crowd before they stormed the Capitol as “a very mild-mannered speech,” Trump also suggested that the blame for any violence that day could be placed on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats because they didn’t take the potential for violence seriously.
……….
Because nothing is Trump’s fault.
The semantic games people play to ignore the truth that Obama was using the government to spy on the Trump campaign and transition team are the same games they played when Hillary planted the bogus Russian dossier and people pretended it was legitimate.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:20 amIt seems Vance has frightened the skittish ’chucks…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:22 am#157
“Canada’s compulsory boarding schools”
Well done to Canada on the government oversight
Consistency would assume they would also burn down Parliament Hill.
At the same time as this, the UK and Canada were complicit in the abuse of orphans sent from the UK to Canada for use as free labor. The girls were domestic staff and were often raped, impregnated and thrown out. The boys were similarly abused and died due to dangerous work and poor conditions. School was supposed to be part of the deal, but that interfered with productivity
steveg (ebe7c1) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:25 amIt seems Vance has frightened the skittish ’chucks…
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:30 amNo, it’s just his rank opportunism. He’s down on his knees like every other Republican that opposed Trump in 2016-2020 but decided they would rather be elected not on their own principles but on Trump’s.
Perhaps I’ve not tried hard enough to understand the difference, but how is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) a mental illness….and yet gender dysphoria is not? The only difference I see is that the dysphoria has external societal stigma on top of the internal conflict…..which might make it more difficult to deal with distress…..but both scream for significant treatment. I’ve always felt the dysphoria is tragic….based on my impression of the number who transition and remain unhappy…maybe in a different way. Again, my position is one of relative ignorance….and I don’t see the point in trying to make other people’s lives intentionally more difficult….but I also don’t see the point in embracing it either….
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:34 amTime123 (680c4b) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:08 am
Are you a Russiagate True Believer?
frosty (f27e97) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:58 am“we will never come close to proportional punishment”
Certainly no system of justice is perfect….and maybe the idea is to not perfectly match the heinousness but to simply declare there’s no redemptive value and society sees no value in warehousing the individual. Also, there is a certain unmatched psychological terror of knowing….to the minute…..when you will take your last breath….that may supercede how much physical pain you must endure and for how long. Further, a true psychopath may prefer to go out with more of a spectacle.
“Recent evidence suggests that capital punishment may have a significant deterrent effect”
Significant would suggest a strong correlation between murder rates and the legality of capital punishment and its frequency of use. It’s rare, but I think here I trust the sociologists over the economists to properly control the statistics. Could someone give a second thought to killing in Texas or Alabama? Sure, but are the ones that are ultimately put the death, the ones that are so careful and calculated in their actions? Also, we could also achieve the same deterrence effect by making certain incarcerations increasingly awful…up to the very boundary of the 8th amendment. Richard Speck and John Gacy could have been treated quite differently in lock up…..but is that something that would have motivated the next Gacy…
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:59 amThis is hilariously brutal.
https://jalopnik.com/dodge-is-american-cringe-1847255340?utm_campaign=Jalopnik&utm_content=1625932825&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook
K
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:00 pmFrosty, not sure what is included in true believer.
I think it’s clear that the evidence didn’t show the Trump campaign conspired with Russia on the leak of the DNC email.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:03 pmBut it’s also clear the investigation was properly predicted and that there isn’t evidence the investigation was politically motivated.
Fer Chrissakes..
https://youtu.be/rX7wtNOkuHo
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:05 pmWhitewashing the orange will take a lot of coats.
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:07 pmAJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:34 am
I think they both are, because people can bill the government for treating it.
302.85 is the billing code for gender dysphoria in DSM-5. It replaced “gender identity disorder”
Gender dysphoria is now sometimes treated by surgery and hormones.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:10 pmThere are people who understand how the system works: (Boldface mine, italics in original)
https://www.city-journal.org/transgender-identifying-adolescents-threats-to-parental-rights
This works because jurisdiction in these kind of family matters is limited to the state someone is in – and there is no extradiction or honoring of requests prior to when proceedings have commenced.
Example: Lindsay Lohan saw what had happened to Britney Spears and moved out of California when she had a chance.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:12 pm145. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:51 pm
They don’t realize that they don’t produce an income stream. The college treats it as normal. The students assume the market is working.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:15 pmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABNzV9qd_iQ
mg (8cbc69) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:26 pmart is dead
They didn’t find any more people alive in Surfside, Florida, but they did find a cat.
https://wsvn.com/news/local/cat-missing-in-surfside-condo-collapse-found-alive-death-toll-climbs-to-79
No word on whether Unit 904 was in the part of the building that originally collapsed on Thursday two weeks ago, or from the part of the building that was demolished a week ago.
Wait:
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:50 pmSpeaking of gender dysphoria:
Jenner insists she’s leading California recall field despite polling
…….
(Caitlyn) Jenner said she plans a statewide bus tour in the month before the Sept. 14 recall and dismissed a major May poll showing that she was fourth among GOP hopefuls with only 6 percent support.
“Honestly, I’m not concerned about the polling,” she said, dismissing the survey as outdated. “I guarantee you that I am in the lead.”
Jenner said she has no plans to drop out of the race ahead of a filing deadline next week and will provide five years of tax returns as required by California’s elections chief under a new law.
Jenner said she came to Sacramento to discuss her intervention in a lawsuit that Newsom filed to get his party affiliation listed on the recall ballot.…….
………
Given her intervention on elections law, Jenner was asked about her own sparse voting experience, as POLITICO found she missed nearly two-thirds of elections dating back to 2000. “I voted when I needed to, depending on what the issues are … so no I have no regrets on something like that,” she said. “I’m actually very proud of my voting record.”
The former Olympian* and “Keeping Up with the Kardashians” star made the comments in a 13-minute press conference at the Hyatt hotel that marked her first media appearance in Sacramento during the recall campaign. She has not held a public campaign event or rally yet in Northern California, and she left Sacramento without doing other events, according to her team.
Jenner said she was heading next to the Conservative Political Action Conference in Dallas — a bastion of right-leaning activists and supporters of former President Donald Trump — where she said she plans to do media. Trump is expected to be the headliner this weekend.
……..
Jenner’s appearance underscored the unorthodox nature of the reality TV star’s gubernatorial campaign, which has flagged in fundraising and so far failed to post any major endorsements. There’s also been little evidence of traditional campaign infrastructure such as volunteers and county chairs. Members of Jenner’s famed Kardashian family — whose joint wealth is estimated by Forbes at $2 billion — have so far not written checks or publicly backed her bid.
Jenner is competing with a growing list of GOP candidates who include former San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer, businessman John Cox, former Rep. Doug Ose and Assemblymember Kevin Kiley. Sources say conservative talk show host Larry Elder is also expected to announce his run next week.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:56 pm………
*This is an error. Bruce Jenner won the decathlon in 1976.
Euro Cup: England 1, Italy 0 at half.
Go Brits!
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:58 pmThey didn’t find any more people alive in Surfside, Florida, but they did find a cat.
That’s because cats have nine lives and humans only one.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:01 pm168. SF:
143. They never spied on the Trump campaign, nor on any people still working in the campaign.
173, Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:01 am
What was unadulterated BS was the investigation the FBI conducted in the run up to the 2016 election, under pressure from some top Democrats, especially Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid.
FBI Director James Comey wanted to stay on good terms with both major parties. The FBI was very political, but not partisan.
The FBI never collected political information and certainly did not turn over anything to the Democrats, which is what I think spying on the campaign implies.
Comey tried to play things very carefully, and followed hints to leave Hillary Clinton cleared of crimes, but not of doing things wrong, and then he said should he re-open the investigation he would tell Congress — and then deleted emails from Hillary Clinton were found on Anthony Weiner’s laptop, so he told members of Congress (who revealed it) and then conducted a search which avoided any humans looking at the emails, and then closed it again three days before the election.
Comey authorized a counterintelligence investigation into attempts by Russia to influence the Trump campaign.
When Trump later fired him, his deputy Andrew McCabe started a criminal investigation into Donald Trump (whether that was done to obstruct justice)
Not wanting to interfere exactly, and not wanting to leave Andrew McCabe in charge, Rod Rosenstein contrived to put former FBI Director Bob Mueller in charge of the investigation, first by trying to get Preesident Trump to appoint him FBI Director again (a ploy which went nowhere) and then by naming him a special counsel.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:09 pmWere the presidential race one in which the popular vote was decisive, I would have voted for Mr Trump.
I still would have wasted my vote, rather than disgrace it.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:15 pmAnd executions should be televised, since they are performed in the name of society.
YouTube should suffice. I can’t see that service having any qualms.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:19 pmJames Byrd was dragged to death for something like three miles; his killers got put to sleep like unwanted puppies at the pound.
Again, this rings false as it was pressure from the hand-wringers that led to this. And they still complain about the “terror” the condemned experience with lethal injection.
But you call them “his killers.” Are you sure? That’s the real question and point of agreement, I think. The jury has to be damn sure.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:23 pmIt’s kind of difficult to argue that executions are necessary when we just don’t carry them out that often.
Dana, this argument is just infuriating. It’s like folks insisted that the interstates be covered with speed bumps, then complain that traffic is so slow.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:24 pmBefore the rest of the building was demolished people wanted the people in charge to look for animals left behind, but rhey said it wasn’t safe and that they had done that.
There are some stories of narrow escapes. Like a woman who came back home at around 1 am on the day it collapsed, noticed cracks and noise and went downstairs to complain about work being done at night and was told no work was being done – then rushed upstairs to warn her son and daughter to get out of the building as fast as they could (maybe warning a neighbor too?) and they maybe barely made it out.
Her husband was out of town.
She spent the rest of the day wandering around, not being able to rent a hotel room because she had no credit cards with her.
Oh – her unit was on the ground floor. Or are there two different stories here? She thought it was an earthquake.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/i-had-to-run-out-family-explains-narrow-escape-from-collapse/2483102
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/30/us/champlain-towers-south-garage-pool-collapse/index.html
(this version has the son telling everyone to get out. The TV story ends with menton of another person a few floors up who got out)
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:26 pmhe also said the rally participants were patriots, that some of them were unjustly arrested and jailed
Trump could have issued a blanket pardon on Jan 7th to all who were on Capitol grounds on Jan 6th, just as Carter did with the Vietnam War draft dodgers.
But he didn’t. Someone should ask him why.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:28 pmBranson didn’t really go into space, even if there’s a definition that puts the boundary at 50 miles, because he didn’t get high enough to go into orbit, which is at about 90 miles.
Before he left, he had breakfast with Elon Musk. So that puts them together against Jeff Bezos. But Branson said it was not a race. Bezos will do about the same thing.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:35 pmNo, it’s just his rank opportunism.
No, it’s necessary to avoid changing professions. You cannot get elected to anything where the Republican Party has a working majority without the Republican nomination, and you cannot get that while dissing Trump. The margins don’t work.
It’s easy to see politicians as “abandoning principle” but “principle” is something mainly found in 3rd parties, which is to say useless to a professional politician. A legislator’s JOB is to faithfully represent the interest of his constituents. Their raw position on any issue needs to be understood and modified only by the legislator’s better access to information.
So, you see politicians time and again “getting their minds right.” The ones who persist on principle despite their party or constituents are rare as hen’s teeth. And not always on the right side, either (e.g. Goldwater and the Civil Right Act).
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:41 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:03 pm
Believing everything the FBI, and former administration officials did, was legit and free of political motivations is included in True Believer. It’s a sign of a strongly held faith to maintain that now given what we’ve learned since then.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:48 pmThere are some books that shed light on various pieces of the puzzle of what happened on January 6:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/michael-wolff-landslide-final-days-trump-presidency-excerpt.html
Interesting point: Michael Wolff although he has some more information stll does not recognize that there were two separate rallies scheduled for January 6, one at the Ellipse and one at the Capitol, with the Capitol rally originally being the only one.
Here he treats them as one:
Ali Alexander, and Alex Jones were connected with the Capitol rally.
Trump was reminded of contestants on “Let’s Make a Deal” when he saw the costimes some people wore at a December 12 rally.
Nobody but Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani thought he had a chance of continuing as president past January 20;
Then I think Michael Wolff segues, in the middle of a paragraph, into the rally at the Ellipse (which I quoted above). I think Michael Wolff is quote confused about events.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 1:55 pmBranson didn’t really go into space, even if there’s a definition that puts the boundary at 50 miles, because he didn’t get high enough to go into orbit, which is at about 90 miles.
He went about 85 kilometers up, or a little over 50 miles. But “orbit” has nothing at all to do with altitude, other than it being a lot easier above the atmosphere. Orbit is a condition, not a height.
The X-Prize rules that Mohave Ventures (predessessor to Virgin Galactic) won required an altitude of 100 km. The current VG design has never reached that height.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:05 pmEuro Cup: England 1, Italy 0 at half.
Go Brits!
Sadly it ended in a 1-1 tie. And the English (The Three Lions) are only 1/3 of “Britain” (possibly 1/2 in future).
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:05 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 12:03 pm
I think it’s the other way around: Russia did not, and would not, conspire with the Trump campaign, on the leak of the DNC email, and had no need to.
They had something – which actually wasn’t properly predicated, but the political motivation was not anti=Trump – it was to fend off Harry Reid, and it wasn’t a serious investigation.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/29/us/politics/document-Reid-Letter-to-Comey.html
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/harry-reid-james-comey-letter
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/31/harry-reid-just-made-a-huge-incendiary-evidence-free-claim-about-trump-and-russia/
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:11 pmSadly, there does not seem to be a “Hitler learns that Mike Pence won’t change the electoral vote” parody. You would think that would be a no-brainer.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:11 pmJonah Goldberg
@JonahDispatch
Whether you like what Michael Wolff reports or hate it, everyone would be well-advised to believe nothing Wolff reports unless it’s confirmed independently or if the source is quoted on the record.
5:49 AM · Jul 9, 2021
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:18 pmAnother book goes into Trump after leaving the White House, too:
Adapted from the book “Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost,” by Michael C. Bender
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-donald-trumps-last-days-in-the-white-house-and-plans-for-a-comeback-11625759920
The night of January 5:
Mr. Bender doesn’t say what they told him.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:23 pmThat only Trump, and Giuliani, among the people close to Trump, seemed to believe that that Trump had a chance of pulling this off seems plausible, but it may depend on the definition of people close to him. Giuliani wasn’t coming up with these ideas out of his own head, and he had a Professor John Eastman (from Chapman University) with him.
Eastman retired in January after faculty members and students called for him to be fired. He had also write an oo-ed piece last year for Newsweek in which he argued that Kamala Harris was eligible to serve because her parents were not U.S. citizens or permanent residents (on the grounds that that didn’t fit the definition of natural born.)
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:37 pmBut Michael Wolff seems quite confused, at least, about some matters.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:40 pm…… in which he argued that Kamala Harris was eligible to serve because her parents were not U.S. citizens or permanent residents (on the grounds that that didn’t fit the definition of natural born.)
I’m sure you meant “ineligible.”
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:47 pmJonah’s been dispatched all right: he is irrelevant.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:53 pmEngland chokes. Italy wins in penalty shoot out.
Hard cheese, lads.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:56 pmn addition to dogs and bees, Covid-19 can be detected by machines.
This goes back to last year. But testing, testing, testing;
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2020/10/02/585020.htm
The thing that might make this better than dogs is that it could be mass produced and not require a period of training.
This could be useful at events or at airports.
QWe’re now in the 3rd quarter. So what hapened:
https://nypost.com/2021/06/13/new-covid-sensor-can-smell-virus-in-crowded-room-researchers
Three companies are developing that.
If this was a computer, they’d be selling it already. Since it is a medical device, it’s semi-permanently always on the horizon.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 2:59 pmCompletely off topic: I never voted for him, but I think that, on their 75th wedding anniversary, Rosalynn and Jimmy Carter deserve considerable credit for a successful marriage. (Rosalynn perhaps more credit than Jimmy.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:00 pmIf Trump had encouraged his supporters to vote early and/or absentee he would have gotten several million more votes. By making it a loyalty test to only vote on Election Day he did the opposite of GotV.
It would also have helped if he had not had that meltdown of a first debate. Maybe his hard core fans loved him sticking it to Biden, but anyone who was looking for some reassurance, or wanted to see the man unfiltered by the biased press, came away aghast. He had a chance to get my vote then, but lost it inside of 5 minutes.
The thing is that the GOP’s platform, and even Trump’s version of it, was quite popular by itself. But his campaign (and presidency) was so full of unforced errors and poorly-chosen battles that no one could see the platform; all they saw was Trump.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:10 pm244.
Yes.
To save typing, I pasted a sentence fragment from here but it had the word whether:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-lawyers-exclusive/exclusive-trump-considering-lawyer-who-spoke-at-rally-for-impeachment-defense-sources-idUSKBN29J0A9
The full sentence went:
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:11 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:10 pm
Trump was OK with voting early in person – he was casting suspicion on absentee ballots.
There was no official platform in 2020. But nobody missed it.
.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:14 pmI never voted for him, but I think that, on their 75th wedding anniversary, Rosalynn and Jimmy Carter deserve considerable credit for a successful marriage
I think that there were an awful lot of marriages 1945-46, among people who had already weathered the difficulties of wartime separation. Two of my dad’s siblings married then, and they remained married until their deaths a few years back.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:15 pmThere were firecrackers exploding outside for 3-4 minutes.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:15 pm#192 It occurred to me that putting some numbers on “persuasive, but not conclusive” might clarify my thinking. If I had to bet, I would say that the odds that capital punishment is a deterrent to murder should be at least 5-1 and, possibly 10-1.
And I will cheerfully admit that I see no way, even in principle, to get to “conclusive”, 100-1 or greater. But I do think economists have generally gone about the research in the right way, building models and then testing them against data — and sociologists haven’t.
(Let me put this general point gently: The field of economics has, for many decades, attracted better talent than the field of sociology. And economists are much less likely to be trapped by leftist ideology, especially in recent decades.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:17 pmEastman came under fire last summer for an op-ed he wrote in Newsweek that questioned whether Vice President-elect Kamala Harris was eligible to serve because her parents were not U.S. citizens or permanent residents.
The perennial idiocy. While I would like to see a change to the citizenship rules to avoid citizenship tourism, if a Canadian has a baby at LAX on her way to Mexico, it’s a natural-born citizen.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:18 pmJonah Goldberg is a successful syndicated columnist, who often appears on TV. One book of his became a NYT best seller; another reached 5th on that list.
And he has never fallen in love with Kim Jong Un.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:23 pmFrosty, what you seem to be accusing me of believing is not what I said. I tried to answer your question carefully and accurately.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:23 pmSammy, I don’t think anything you’ve said here is in conflict with the facts. Where you’ve extended past what can be proven I suspect you’re right more then not. Overall great comments that I can find nothing to add to, except that the information we’ve now gotten for what was happening inside the investigation is consistent with Meullers team believing they were pursuing a guilty man.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:26 pm@256. He is a irrelevant.
____
Trump at CPAC/Dallas ripping RINOs a fresh bunghole.
Romney won’t be able to sit down for a month.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:31 pm^ a neocon; irrelevant.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:35 pm@232.Yeah, he did Sammy, albeit briefly in a low skim for two minutes. But not worth $250,000/seat.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:37 pmRomney won’t be able to sit down for a month.
I’m sure Romney doesn’t care what Trump thinks.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:37 pmRip I agree with your sentence, except I would add this punctuation: I’m sure Romney doesn’t care what Trump “thinks”.
(No doubt Trump can think “fast”, like anyone with an IQ above 50, but the evidence that he can think “slow”, that is, rationally, is lacking. To be fair, he may be just too lazy to do so.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:47 pmEngland chokes. Italy wins in penalty shoot out.
Hard cheese, lads.
Glorious.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:49 pm@263-
Well played.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:51 pmGreat preparation for our inevitable post-apocalyptic world where cars are few, bullets are plentiful, and 2 men enter 1 man leaves
https://twitter.com/taskandpurpose/status/1414271473976479744?s=21
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:54 pmIf I had to bet, I would say that the odds that capital punishment is a deterrent to murder should be at least 5-1 and, possibly 10-1.
Well, as practiced today it is less of a deterrent than when the appeal process only lasted a year or two. I think it’s clear that a 20-year delay reduces its certainty considerably. My problem though is that delay is unnecessary and the product of extreme foot-dragging and passive-aggressiveness by those that then turn around and decry the delay.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:22 pmRomney won’t be able to sit down for a month.
Romney will have no problem sitting down and sh1tting while thinking of Trump.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:23 pmSo, Kevin, what would you say the odds were — and now are?
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:25 pmJim @263,
It’s more a GIGO problem with Trump. He consumes junk news, internalizes what he likes, investigates nothing is generally incurious. He may think just fine with what he’s got, but it’s like cooking with tofu. In the end you have processed tofu.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:25 pmElon Musk is going full D. D. Harriman. He has put up his fancy house for sale, and is living in a rented manufactured module that costs about 50K.
Good luck to him.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:30 pmSo, Kevin, what would you say the odds were — and now are?
It’s a joke. But that does not mean give up, it means change the system so it IS a deterrent again. There is no reason for multiple state and federal appeals. One each should do, absent emergent evidence. That courts take years to rule on cases is more to do with malfunction in the system than any need for justice. Especially if the “we’re damn sure” threshold is met by the jury.
I would ALSO restrict qualified immunity in death penalty trials, just to keep things honest. Almost all the wrongful verdicts we have seen have been due to prosecutorial or police misconduct and letting them hide behind immunity weakens the system.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:30 pmGreat preparation for our inevitable post-apocalyptic world where cars are few, bullets are plentiful, and 2 men enter 1 man leaves
The one sheltering behind the rock is the one who leaves, not the guy coming up on a flipping bicycle.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:33 pmGood luck to him.
He’s had pretty good luck– fleecing the U.S. taxpayer.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:33 pm@268. That’s Utah’s Willard: down in the dumps.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:35 pmI’m sure Romney doesn’t care what Trump thinks.
Except he does– see 2012 for the coveted Trump endorsement.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:37 pm@254. And deserved; you don’t sit on a 1 goal lead from 2 minutes in against the Itals. But the press will blame the young wogs.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:40 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:26 pm
I’m not sure what they believed, but they didn;t have to believe Trump was guilty of any crime to pursue him – they could have believed that they had an obligation to run down any adverse inference and see if they could prove it.
It should have been obvious that collusion was unlikely because why would Vladimir Putin take Donald Trump into his confidence?
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/11/2021 @ 4:46 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 3:23 pm
Well, at least vaguely. You’re trying to say a thing without saying a thing. I’m not sure carefully and accurately is correct. Maybe precise and cautious would be a better choices?
frosty (f27e97) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:24 pmTrump wins the CPAC straw poll as attendees clamor for him to run again
Former President Donald Trump bathed in the adulation of an adoring crowd at the Conservative Political Action Conference Sunday as he easily won the straw poll of attendees when they were asked who they’d like to see run for the White House in 2024.
……..
Though Republicans are looking ahead to next year’s midterm elections as they try to craft an effective line of attack against a popular President and his administration. But there was no issue more dominant at the CPAC gathering in Dallas than Trump’s false claim that the 2020 election was fraudulent, even though there is no evidence of widespread voting fraud in last year’s contest.
………
At a gathering branded as “America UnCanceled,” election integrity ranked as the top issue facing the country for CPAC attendees when measured by the organization’s straw poll. When gauging interest in the potential 2024 White House candidates, organizers asked attendees to answer two questions ranking their top choice. One question included Trump on the list and the other did not.
Trump topped the list of roughly a dozen candidates that included him with 70%, while Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis won the support of 21%.
DeSantis, who did not even draw a mention by name from Trump during the former President’s recent rally in Florida, was the clear winner when Trump was not a contender.
DeSantis was backed by 68% of CPAC attendees in the second question omitting the former President, followed by former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo at 5% and Donald Trump Jr. at 4%. Trump’s approval rating amongst CPAC attendees was 98%.
While many CPAC attendees railed against critical race theory, “cancel culture,” and the hand of government as a looming “big brother” hovering over Americans’ lives and decisions during the Covid-19 pandemic, Trump’s insistence that his 2020 contest with Joe Biden was rigged is still dominating the GOP agenda eight months after the election.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:25 pm……..
Sammy, In the discovery for Flynn’s stuff there were a lot of documents released that appeared to show some very zealous, maybe over zealous, investigators on Mueller’s team. One of them, faulted the others for how certain they were Trump was guilty. Wish I could quickly find the links but it painted a picture of an investigation that thought they were pursuing a guilty party.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:33 pm‘Freedom!’ Thousands of Cubans take to the streets to demand the end of dictatorship
In an unprecedented display of anger and frustration, thousands of people took to the streets Sunday in cities and towns across Cuba, including Havana, to call for the end of the decades-old dictatorship and demand food and vaccines, as shortages of basic necessities have reached crisis proportions and COVID-19 cases have soared.
From the Malecón, Havana’s famous seawall near the old city, to small towns in Artemisa province and Palma Soriano, the second-largest city in Santiago de Cuba province, videos live-streamed on Facebook showed thousands of people walking and riding bikes and motorcycles along streets while chanting “Freedom!” “Down with Communism!” and “Patria y Vida” — Homeland and Life — which has become a battle cry among activists after a viral music video turned the revolutionary slogan “Homeland or Death” on its head.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:40 pm……….
Mr Murdock wrote:
This is only an error of you accept the cockamamie notion that Bruce Jenner is now female and is legitimately “Caitlyn” Jenner. If you hold to the truth, that Bruce Jenner is always Bruce Jenner, regardless of what mutilating wounds he may have suffered, and that he is now, and always will be, male, then everything falls in place nicely.
The only sensible position is to refuse to accept the ridiculous notion that people can change their sex. They can lie to themselves all they want, but we should refrain from lying to ourselves by going along with their delusions.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:45 pmFrosty, aren’t cautious and careful and precise and accurate pretty much synonyms? You asked me a really vague question and I tried to answer it. If you have a specific question go ahead and ask it.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:47 pmMiller: “If I had to bet, I would say that the odds that capital punishment is a deterrent to murder should be at least 5-1 and, possibly 10-1…..no way, even in principle, to get to “conclusive”, 100-1 or greater. ”
I’m not quite sure how these odds of yours work….doesn’t seem like horse racing where 2-1 would be the favorite. Anyways, 2 pages into his paper Sunstein says the following:
“In many situations, ranging from environmental quality to highway safety to relief of poverty, our arguments suggest that in light of imaginable empirical findings, government is obliged to provide far more protection than it now does…”
So he is certainly looking for more across the board government action…..so a reliable lefty. But on to the grist. The evidence is not Sunstein’s….he is leveraging other researcher’s conclusions based on county-level evidence from circa 1977-1999 regarding murder rates and numbers of death sentences/executions. Some of the studies arrive at numbers much less (~3) than the significant number (~18) Sunstein leads off with. By page 12, the argument now asserts that states must execute enough people to see the deterrent effect but little has been said about other factors…like the drug trade….that might influence the murder rate. OK, then he admits: “But in studies of this kind, it is hard to control for confounding variables, and a degree of doubt inevitably remains.” and then “further problems for the deterrence claim are introduced by the fact that capital punishment is imposed infrequently and after long delays”. Agreed.
Cutting to the chase…it doesn’t appear that much has been controlled for….he’s arguing that the correlation by itself is enough to compel action. And then the kicker: “Our primary concern here is not to reach a final judgment about the evidence, but how to evaluate capital punishment given the assumption of a substantial deterrent effect”. Yikes, that’s the huge assumption that economists are oftentimes infamous for…..and not the careful “model building” that you were hoping for. OK, so off I go to a critique. What evidence does the critic provide?
In 1999, 98 executions, 300 death sentences and the lowest murder rate (5.7) in decades. Good news for Sunstein….except then….Executions were then only 53 in 2006, 42 in 2007, and a mere 37 in 2008….while the murder rate stuck between 5.5-5.7. Whoops. Also numbers from Canada where the death penalty was abolished also show a shrinking murder rate over time. So at this point I remain unconvinced that any meaningful deterrence has been “proven” go give me 50-1…whatever the hell that means….
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:50 pmDCSCA wrote:
As it happens, I was at The Local Taco in Lexington, with my older daughter, who was treating me to supper because I finished a plumbing fix at her house. They had that game on the big screen, at which point I informed my daughter that that was soccer, not football. She proceeded to tell me that every other nation calls it football, at which point I pointed out that there are two types of countries: those which use the metric system, and call soccer football, and those which play real football and have landed a man on the moon.
I think Italy won on tie breaking penalty kicks.
At 90 minutes, soccer games are too long, and the field is too big. That’s why you have 1-0 games so often.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:50 pmJust checked, according to google they are. 😀
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:52 pmCandy/mittens/2024
mg (8cbc69) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:53 pmMr M wrote:
Why is it infuriating? It is a point about what the real world is like. I get it: you’re perturbed that the law has gotten in the way, but that doesn’t change the facts, the small number of executions proves that they aren’t necessary in the first place.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 5:56 pmMr M wrote:
The only actual deterrent to crime is the consideration whether or not you will get caught. How is it a realistic consideration that it’s fine to murder someone if all you are going to get is life in prison without the possibility of parole rather than a death sentence?
In the City of Brotherly Love, odds are now only one in three that you’ll get caught.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:04 pm289, we have a process where we kill people on purpose instead of locking them up forever. Even with the appeals we know that we sometimes kill innocent people.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:05 pmI was agreeing with you btw
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:06 pmActually, there are 3 kinds of countries, the 3rd being the largely commonwealth-birthed Cricket group…you dont see India passing envelopes to host a World Cup FWIW, if Nigeria was able to beat the US in men’s basketball, they probably are a coach away , as would be a Central or Eadtern Euro team given the OH/PA/Chicago Catholic League connection, from beating the US in real football.
urbanleftbehind (2cd2e0) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:07 pmEven with the appeals we know that we sometimes kill innocent people.
Who were the last 3 innocents executed? Please limit yourself to those executed after resumption of the death penalty. Statistical assumptions don’t count.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:18 pmMEMO TO: Jeff Zucker, Head of Dying CNN
SUBJECT: History of the Sitcom
This is not news.
This is: probably to you. he best written and funniest sitcom ever produced had just 12 episodes: Fawlty Towers.
Now go cover a war like a news network; somebody is shooting at somebody someplace on a Sunday night.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:19 pmI see lists of “executed by possibly innocent” but that tells me two things: All the reset were not “possibly innocent” and these are people where there is some doubt and would fail the “damn sure” test. Some were convicted by non-unanimous juries. Find me a case where everyone was sure and turned out wrong.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:23 pm@248; no they aren’t. Mine wasn’t vague given the context. Maybe snarky. You tried to answer obliquely.
I don’t think I’ve got any specific questions now. You said you thought it was properly predicated and you seem satisfied that everyone involved believed they were doing the right thing. I think we agree on that last part. I said something to that effect in one of my earlier comments.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:26 pmI note here that EVERY case they list was in the Old South.
Reading the descriptions it would seem the problem is qualified immunity, not the death penalty.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:26 pmOff-off-topic:
Kamala Harris attacks Voter ID laws as “impossible for rural Americans”
Imagine not having Kinkos or OfficeMax near you. Oh, wait, those don’t exist anymore. Who knew? And home copying may be a thing of the distant future but hardly anyone can do that now! Right?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:42 pmI wasn’t trying to be oblique. I was trying to be accurate on a somewhat complicated subject. This is an anonymous comment section. I don’t really have any motive not to be open about what I’m thinking and I don’t mind admitting when Im wrong.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:42 pmMatter of fact, you should be able to take a picture of your ID with your phone and send it in electronically, except that GOVERNMENT is still using fax machines.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:43 pm@289; part of the problem is with the word necessary. It’s being giving different meanings then pretending they are the same. Obviously executions aren’t necessary for the world to keep spinning but they may be necessary to deter crime more effectively.
If I say having the lights on at night is necessary for me to move around my house, you turn them off, and then say “ah ha” when I find the switch you haven’t proven a point. You’ve just proven you deserve some payback for making me stub my shins.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:46 pm#285 AJ – Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I probably should have been more clear about that article. In it, the co-authors are discussing the philosophical aspects of the death penalty. The statistical work, some done by Sunstein, can be found elsewhere. (If you are curious, do the usual, and follow the references. I won’t guarantee that you will find them easy to read.)
I recall learning about Sunstein’s work from a NYT article years ago. A Nobel Prize winning economist at the University of Chicago endorsed the article, and said that because of the article (and for other reasons) he thought the death penalty was a deterrent. To my great annoyance, the article did not say what those other reasons were. (I’m sorry; I don’t recall which Nobel Prize winner said that, but do recall vaguely looking him up and concluding that he was not particularly political, and widely respected.)
The odds I gave are just a way of saying how strongly I accept Sunstein’s conclusion. They are something like the confidence intervals we see with polls, but more Bayesian in the thinking than frequentist. (This article may, or may not, help you understand the Bayesian part.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:49 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:42 pm
I really don’t see how it’s acceptable to say black and brown people can’t produce ID and this xerox thing is just a variation.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/11/2021 @ 6:57 pmUsing odds as I do helps us escape from either/or thinking. For example, if someone were to say that, with a one year limit on appeals, each execution would deter 5 murders, but with the endless delays, each execution now deters 0.5 murders, we would find it easier to understand their argument.
(It should be obvious, but perhaps I should say it anyway, the more often murderers are caught and convicted, the stronger the deterrence effect will be, so upping what the police call their “clearance rate” might be our first priority in reducing the number of murders.)
Some gangs understand this way of thinking and so will use under age hit men, in order to protect their leaders from executions, or even long prison sentences.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 7:13 pmI should have said endorsed Sunstein’s modeling study, rather than “article”, though it did result in a peer-reviewed article.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 7:16 pmThe possibility of death, judicial or non-judicial, as a deterrent to killers seems iffy to me. Incapacitation, certain incapacitation, so that they can never do it again and, to a lesser degree, the esthetic value to society of their removal from the environment and the sense of retribution, are more realistic reasons.
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 7:23 pmThis is only an error of you accept the cockamamie notion that Bruce Jenner is now female and is legitimately “Caitlyn” Jenner. If you hold to the truth, that Bruce Jenner is always Bruce Jenner, regardless of what mutilating wounds he may have suffered, and that he is now, and always will be, male, then everything falls in place nicely.
The only sensible position is to refuse to accept the ridiculous notion that people can change their sex. They can lie to themselves all they want, but we should refrain from lying to ourselves by going along with their delusions.
I agree with you, but the media obviously has accepted Caitlyn and Bruce as one and the same. The proper pronoun is “it”.
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/11/2021 @ 7:25 pmnk – I hope you don’t step in front of moving cars.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 7:31 pm“A Bayesian is one who, vaguely expecting a horse, and catching a glimpse of a donkey, strongly believes he has seen a mule.” But I accept your clarification and will gladly reassess my belief in the executioneers hypothesis at 5%. I actually like Sunstein….he’s very readable….and I might continue into the morality section of his paper….but another critique I perused seemed to fear that it could also justify torture and other dubious practices.
I still think one has to consider how murderers think….and of the ones that are rational, how many care strongly about the difference between life in prison without the possibility of parole versus being executed, where the average time between sentencing and death is about 22 years (https://www.statista.com/statistics/199026/average-time-between-sentencing-and-execution-of-inmates-on-death-row-in-the-us/). I would wager that the criminal worries more about being caught. Anyways, I’m guessing the average voter doesn’t read Sunstein….and would vote his gut on the matter.
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/11/2021 @ 7:37 pmAJ – I like that Bayesian quip. And I appreciate your willingness to give an estimate.
For the record, if I were a state legislator and wanted to reduce crime, especially murders, I would look hard at ways to improve the clearance rate, first.
And now for some recreational reading, and then some sleep.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:15 pm@286 soccer is actually a british word derived from as(soc)iation football
we use it because the brits did, until they decided not to
and it’s not just us, the aussies use it too
what’s interesting is that england, wales and scotland have separate teams though they are within the same country
and from listening to the bbc, a lot of people in wales, scotland and northern ireland very much wanted italy to win
if britain could just field a national team they probably could dominate
JF (e1156d) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:42 pmEngland, Wales, and Scotland are countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom
kaf (5ae0b3) — 7/11/2021 @ 8:52 pm@313 so is the united kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom?wprov=sfti1
wales and scotland don’t field separate teams in the olympics
in fact, there’s a british soccer team in the olympics representing all countries in the uk
JF (e1156d) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:07 pmOlympic selector: You will represent England in the Olympics.
Geordie[who is Scottish]: Why would I want to do that?
[Other] Olympic selector: He means Great Britain.
nk (1d9030) — 7/11/2021 @ 9:17 pmThe death penalty is needed for the simple fact that the left always tries to free the worst of the killers. Just look at how they try and free cop killers time and time again.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:09 pmhttps://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/07/11/country-star-john-rich-threat-cancellation-step-deeper-cancel-culture-silencing-conservative-country-music-artists/
Obvious at this point.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:40 pmThe supermax experience, with perpetual isolation and antiseptic handling seems far more terrible than the death penalty. Especially since you don’t get the same access to appeals. They just lock you up and you spend the rest of your very boring life in a machine. Cruel and unusual in a way that hanging is not.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/11/2021 @ 11:40 pmNJRob, that could be true, it could also be a dodge here ‘of course I want to agree with you all the time but the suites just won’t let me. I hate them more then you do so please keep buying my t-shirts when you go to the concert.’ Impossible to tell, but I don’t take anything someone with a brand to protect says in public at face value.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 5:15 am@316, do you really think that’s a wide spread problem? I remember the ‘free Mummia’ stuff a few years back but haven’t seen anything more recently.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 5:17 amTime, entertainers are smart to want everyone’s money. They’re also smart to not expose their own limited understanding of oftentimes quite complex and nuanced issues. People are getting frustrated with every aspect of our culture being infected with rank partisanship. We can’t go anywhere without someone jamming their politics in our face. And as you often rightly observe, most of the time these are small issues that are packaged and cynically used to enflame neighbor against neighbor…..and family member against family member. We just can’t break free of the aggitators….
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:02 am@321 AJ, Agitating outrage draws attention and is easier to do then creating compelling art or compelling insights. It’s also often easier to consume. So there’s big money in it. Also as the stupid culture war consumes everything everything becomes more tribal and less nuanced. Country Music is associated with working class, rural and white so of course it must align with the GOP. I’d expect that in many cases it does, but when it doesn’t there’s outrage that one of ‘ours’ would ‘betray’ us. Look at the reaction of fans when they found out Hank Williams Jr. was liberal or when the Dixie Chicks criticized Bush, to pick a couple of notable examples.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:15 amI agree. Especially when it comes to Democrat’s unsubstantiated comments regarding election audits.
Whatever happened to the “if you have nothing to hide..” argument?
BuDuh (7bca93) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:18 amAnother great comment. It also applies.
BuDuh (7bca93) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:19 am@323 You’ll have to be specific, I’m not following you.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:31 amYou aren’t?
Oh.. My mistake.
BuDuh (7bca93) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:32 amYes, like the media constant gaslighting when talking about statues of Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson taken down as some sort of heroic act while glossing over statues of Lewis and Clark and Sacagawea being given the same treatment.
It’s almost like the agenda is obvious at this point.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:39 am326… now THAT is funny!
Not very impressive… https://twitter.com/AndyGrewal/status/1413611293425143812
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:50 amBudah, I’m just not sure what audit you’re talking about. A lot of the complaints about the Maricopa audit are coming for the republicans who ran the election, and reviewed the pervious audit results.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:52 amhttps://freebeacon.com/campus/thousands-of-teachers-vow-to-defy-state-bans-on-critical-race-theory/
I remember when we had people pretending this poison wasn’t being taught in schools. That was just a couple of weeks ago.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 8:11 amNJRob, didn’t the mob in Madison tear down a moose statue or something? That seemed like the dumbest one to me.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 8:23 amRIP Edwin Edwards (93).
“He boasted during the (1983) campaign that the only way he could lose was “if I’m caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy,” a phrase probably coined by Texas journalist Larry L. King years before Mr. Edwards popularized it.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:11 amFox News airs disclaimer during Trump CPAC speech about 2020 election
Fox News on Sunday aired a disclaimer adding context to comments made by former President Trump referencing electoral fraud during his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference.
“And now, it’s also because I got more votes, 75 million, than anybody in the history of the presidency, and far more than Clinton, far more than Obama, and a record 12 million more than 2016,” Trump said of what he has continued to describe as an effort to “rig” the election against him. “Think of it, in the history usually they go down a little bit second term and they win, but they go down a little bit.”
As Trump continued to make misleading or false claims about the result of the election, Fox News, which was carrying the former president’s speech live, replaced its chyron with a disclaimer.
“Voting system companies have denied the various allegations made by President Trump and his counsel regarding the 2020 election,” the disclaimer read.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:14 am……..
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/11/2021 @ 10:09 pm
They want to get rid of life imprisonment without parole too.
There’s a movement in Europe to limit prison terms to 25 years – regardless of the crime.
(behind paywaLLs)
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2021/07/10/why-life-without-parole-is-nearly-always-too-long
https://www.economist.com/international/2021/07/06/as-the-death-penalty-becomes-less-common-life-imprisonment-becomes-more-so
https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/fs_life_sentences_eng.pdf
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:24 am327. NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:39 am
I think Sacagawea was supposed to be too subservient, but I think they didn’t want to give the full flavor of the ideology that was against that statue.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:28 amNJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 8:11 am
There’s a fairly consistent pattern to a number of issues; a) it’s not happening b) it’s not a problem c) there’s nothing that can be done about it.
Sometimes those are actually true and sometimes not. At least the usual commenters claiming (a) on CRT aren’t anymore. They’ll focus on (b) and [c] for a while.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:29 am317/322:
Say that what you will about her ex-husband, but Tipper Gore cleared the battle space for her hometown team Country music to be the go to music for young conservative-leaning whites , when her PMRC shed unfavorable light on hard rock, glam, and heavy metal. One camp drifted into grunge/alternative and a larger camp went into Country.
To think “bro country” is nothing more than what the bands and artists think their label and handlers will tolerate.
urbanleftbehind (092be0) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:33 amBuDuh (7bca93) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:18 am
No one really needs it anymore. When was the last time a D really tried to hide something? Why do they need to when major media outlets will gaslight any issue for them? So, it’s not an effective argument for R’s. D’s don’t need it because they’re well past pretending they respect the privacy of anyone designated a political opponent.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:41 amThe premise that “republican” means “beyond reproach” is a step too far for me.
BuDuh (222b81) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:42 amTrue, frosty.
BuDuh (222b81) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:42 am@336, I still maintain that CRT is a moral panic created for partisan advantage. I don’t spam it or jokes comparing it to creeping sharia law because I’ve made that point and repeating the same thing over and over does nothing to further the conversation. I’m still waiting for someone to show an agreed upon definition on what teaching CRT is in K-12 and some evidence that it’s a systemic problem. I’m expect that in 2 years when the fundraising power of this has diminished some new moral panic will be invented.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:43 am@339, apparently so is being specific about the event you’re complaining about.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:45 am330… cameras in the classroom, Rob. These would be helpful when combating the “by any means necessary” Left.
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:50 amLord knows some of these “educators” can’t be trusted to follow the law on their own volition.
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:56 amSo you stand by the notion that republicans can’t be wrong?
BuDuh (222b81) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:58 am“we had people pretending this poison wasn’t being taught in schools”
But how big a problem is it actually? Is your kid or grandkid coming home “indoctrinated”? Have you talked to teachers in K-12….principals….about what is going on in your local school? Have you attended a school board meeting to see what their policy is about CRT, Zinn, and teacher training with regards to discussions about race? In my locale, not only do I not see an existential crisis, I don’t see smoldering embers signaling a brewing fire. Are there some teachers in some locations elsewhere around the country that want to bring politics into the classroom…in various degrees….and does the NEA support them? Sure. I think conservatives need to challenge the ideas…but not by fear-mongering and hyperbolically calling everything and anything CRT….and further poisoning the political environment. Put pressure on local officials where appropriate….argue curriculum points with those seeking division….but let’s stop pretending that there are no conservative or moderate teachers or principals…or school board members….and that the NEA is some all powerful Sith dark force.
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:59 amNJRob in 330, Here’s the actual pledge that they signed.
Seems pretty reasonable. Are you saying you *want* teachers to lie to students about history and current events? I doubt it. I expect you’ll say “well they said that but I know what they meant was….”
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:01 am@345, i said no such thing.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:01 amWell said frosty. It’s a variation of the “this is not the hill to die on theme” where they support the other side.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:05 amSo the qualifier “republican” serves no useful purpose in your 7:52?
BuDuh (222b81) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:06 amAJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 7/12/2021 @ 9:59 am
You moved on to stage 2 just as frosty predicted. Well done.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:07 am@346, 4 kids, none of them are being indoctrinated. Youngest isn’t paying much attention in history class TBH. Friend works at an K-5 school. This whole thing makes her angry because she feels personally attacked for something that h school isn’t. Doing. 2 good friends are **very** concerned about CRT, neither knows anyone first hand with a kid who has been made to feel back about their race.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:07 amTime123,
I can’t tell if you’re gaslighting or are serious. Zinn appreciates your support either way.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:07 amAnything associated with Howard Zinn should not see the light of day in any K-12 classroom.
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:08 amThat’s from their own site Time123. All you had to do was follow the link.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:09 amBuDuh, because we had recently been talking about Maricopa I thought it might be what you were referring to when you said “dems are fighting audits”. I honestly shouldn’t have tried to guess as to what you meant because doing so has lead to this confused back and forth.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:09 amNJ Rob, I did. Follow the link, and I saw what the 5,000 educators actually signed. I also posted that in my comment.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:11 amI’ll point out that. The free beacon did NOT tell it’s readers what the 5,000 teachers actually signed, even though they easily could have.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:12 amI should have said so called election officials fighting audits, Time. Other than that, your choice of Maricopa seems to fit the bill of a group “with a brand to protect.” I agree with the sentiment of not taking “anything someone with a brand to protect says in public at face value.”
BuDuh (222b81) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:20 amOk, now I understand what you mean. Thank you for taking the time to clarify. The NH audit report was completed today BTW. No word yet on when it will be made public.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:24 amthe legislatures want to make sure schools aren’t teaching stuff they say they aren’t teaching, and that’s getting educators pissed
JF (e1156d) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:26 amShifting Gears, The lawyers for the Kraken lawsuit have their sanction hearing in MI today. Looks like the trainwreck you’d expect.
https://twitter.com/gabrielmalor/status/1414573508617768969?s=21
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:31 amCharlottesville takes down two more statues, deemed offensive to Native Americans, in weekend of removals
It was a big weekend for statue removals in this university town where they’ve become a flash point in recent years.
Shortly after the city carted away a monument to Confederate general Stonewall Jackson and a statue of Robert E. Lee that triggered a deadly weekend of violence in 2017, workers carried off two more statues that critics said depicted Native Americans in a racist and disparaging manner.
One statue, which sat in a grassy park on the University of Virginia campus, showed Revolutionary War general George Rogers Clark riding a horse toward three unarmed Native Americans as two frontiersmen waited behind him, one of them in the act of raising his rifle. The pedestal declared in engraved letters, “CONQUEROR OF THE NORTHWEST,” a reference to his battle prowess against the British.
The second statue, outside a downtown federal courthouse and meant to honor Lewis and Clark’s expedition to the Pacific, showed Meriwether Lewis and William Clark standing straight and staring into the distance as Sacagawea crouched at their side.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:35 am……….
Texas Democrats to Stage Walkout to Kill Voting Bill
Rip Murdock (e12c28) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:50 amAt least 59 Texas House Democrats are fleeing the state of Texas Monday to deny the Republican-controlled state legislature the quorum necessary to pass voting legislation during a special session, a source familiar with their plans said.
…….
the legislatures want to make sure schools aren’t teaching stuff they say they aren’t teaching, and that’s getting educators pissed.
Yep… seems fairly evident that some are. Cameras in the Classroom might go a long way to dissipate said pissiness.
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:52 amCount on Dementia Joe to grab your wallet…
It is shocking to see President Biden cutting with the Group of 20 wealthy countries a deal to raise taxes on American corporations without first getting a mandate from Congress. On the contrary, Mr. Biden has to be well aware that the sentiment for such a deal might well not even be there in Congress. Never mind. Mr. Biden seems to imagine that the Constitution granted the taxing power to the president — of, say, France.
Where is Learned Hand when we need him? He is gone now, but he was the United States Circuit Judge who declared that “Anyone may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes.” He sided with the tax commissioner, as did the Nine, though the justices vouchsafed Judge Hand’s point.
https://www.nysun.com/editorials/the-g-20-shock/91571/
So where does the Biden administration come off conspiring with the Europeans to make it difficult for American companies — they’re the target here — to seek protection in the principle that Learned Hand articulated? Mr. Biden and the G-7 want to defeat tax havens by setting a global minimum tax of at least 15% for corporations. This aim is to end what Secretary Yellen at Treasury keeps calling a “race to the bottom” on taxes.
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:00 am364… if it’s Texas Democrats, it’s more like a Mince-out, RIP.
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:03 amTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 10:01 am
It’s always reasonable to justify whatever you are doing as the honorable search for truth. No one really thinks they are doing evil. Like the FBI in the other comment, the question isn’t whether they believe what they were doing is right. It’s whether it’s actually right.
This isn’t a type of comment I would have expected from you.
I’ve said teaching CRT is teaching racism and that I don’t want them teaching it. We can play “competing definitions” and “what is it really anyway” all day but it’s racism.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:05 amPeople on both sides of the issue could sign that – and disagree about what was a lie.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:11 am362, ascheules…I really wanted a Seattle Kraken (new NHL team) t-shirt or cap, but….
urbanleftbehind (092be0) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:15 amFrosty, Sorry of the snark in my previous comment. I shouldn’t have phrased it like that. Do you feel that the letter the educators signed (full text of their email is in my comment) is unreasonable?
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:21 amSammy, That lack of clairity is part of why I don’t think CRT is a very serious problem. Frosty called it competing definitions but at least one of the the leaders of the anti-CRT movements has been clear that his goal has been to make CRT into a boogeyman that can be used to attack his political opponents. To that end the ambiguity y is a feature
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:24 amThe Republicans got rid of two provisions in the bill that Democrats complained about – a limitation on Sunday voting (used to increase black turnout) and “a provision that would have made it easier to overturn an election” but still in it is a “ban 24-hour voting and drive-through voting sites” a prohibition on sending out absentee ballot applications to voters who had not requested them (but politicians could mail something to voters asking them to request absentee ballots) and adds new voter identification requirements for voting by mail, increases the criminal penalties for election workers who run afoul of regulations, limit what assistance could be provided to voters and expand the authority and autonomy of partisan poll watchers.
In the meantime a serious voting criminal has been found by the Texas Attorney General and arrested and given $100.000 bail, and faces 40 years in jail: (this person was in the news last year for having waited 7 hours in line to vote)
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/10/us/texas-primary-voter-arrested.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/11/opinion/texas-elections-black-people.html
There was another case some time ago, now on appeal. In that case,, the vote didn’t even count:
The writer of this op-ed piece tries to make it a black and white thing, on the grounds that many more blacks than whites are affected by this voter disqualification, but really it’s just a Democrat and Republican thing with the voter targeted because it got some attention for some reason and she or he is suspected of having voted for a Democrat.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:31 amSo many of these leftwingers wear the chapeau de derriere, wear it proudly, that it’s hard to discern the media from the bureaucracy from the sycophants. It’s Comical Corruption, all the way down.
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:37 amBut yet despite his best efforts at demonstrating his conservative bonanza fides vis a vis legislation, Greg Abbott might have to resort to a ‘devil you know” outreach to Dem voters to get them to register as Rs to save him in the R primary. In other words, he will become an Illinois Combine governor.
Silver lining is any whack job with a infinitesimally small chance of winning a general could win the D primary with a sliver of the actual voting population actually voting in the D primary.
urbanleftbehind (092be0) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:46 amKarnak hint:
Inco… cough…In-frastructure Tax, focused solely on the Wall and the Electric Grid:
https://news.yahoo.com/texas-governor-don-huffines-says-100300222.html
urbanleftbehind (092be0) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:49 amI don’t know what a ‘typical’ sanctions hearing is. But this sounds like it went poorly for Team Kraken. Which I’m OK with, there should be some downside to sending a bunch of easily disproven lies to a court.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2021/07/12/michigan-elections-lawsuit-sidney-powell/5334859001/
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:52 amOne almost feels sorry for him… https://twitter.com/ElectionWiz/status/1413572495458938881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1413572495458938881%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ace.mu.nu%2F
Colonel Haiku (921def) — 7/12/2021 @ 12:09 pmSo, maybe body cameras for teachers….and shock collars to keep them in line….clearly we have found the enemy and it is us
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 7/12/2021 @ 12:18 pm“One almost feels sorry for him”
Was it Tim Apple?
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 7/12/2021 @ 12:26 pmDavethulhu, Biden has never been a great speaker, his strength lay in connecting with his audience. But if you look at him in 2010 you see far more forceful, sharper man. I’ve seen nothing from him that makes me think he lacks the acuity to do the job, but I can still see he’s lost a step.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 12:50 pmI agree, however, I also think that Trump is in the same boat.
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 7/12/2021 @ 12:58 pmI think Biden’s performance can be judged on it’s own and doesn’t need Trump as a benchmark.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 1:07 pmNed Nederlander https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhQHme0KeAxAXZ17HTE66JAkg-o2ZCKvODvA&s tries his best(?)… but it’s just not good enough:
https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1412585294050861057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1412585294050861057%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ace.mu.nu%2F
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 1:14 pmBiden has never been a great speaker
Are you kidding? He’s always been a motor-mouth wind bag w/a button on hiz azz that keeps him talking so much he ends up stealing other people’s words– you know, plagiarism. If there’s one thing aside from ice cream Squinty McStumblebum loves it’s the sound of his own voice.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/12/2021 @ 1:18 pmThere’s the pot calling the kettle black.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/12/2021 @ 1:24 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:21 am
Unreasonable? I don’t think that is a word that applies. I think the letter could mean whatever the signers wanted it to mean.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 11:24 am
I didn’t say there were competing definitions. I was clear with my definition.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 1:40 pm386.There’s the pot calling the kettle black.
“Well I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.” – Squinty McStumblebum
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 7/12/2021 @ 1:44 pm386… terrible headline, RIP.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 2:01 pmFrosty called it competing definitions
True… as far as he understands it.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 2:03 pmI suppose I’m assuming they wanted it to mean what the words said. It could mean that they want to have Chinese take out for dinner or that their favorite color is puce. But I’m going to assume the signers meant what it said. We can use context to better understand their meaning about terms that aren’t clear on their own if needed. What does seam clear is that signing that letter doesn’t mean “I want to teach CRT as CRT is defined by it’s critiques.”
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 2:26 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 2:26 pm
We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 2:33 pmDo you have any evidence they are lying?
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 2:36 pmI quoted why they are lying. They don’t want to educate. They want to indoctrinate.
NJRob (ba3961) — 7/12/2021 @ 3:03 pmnot the letter they signed.
Time123 (bbaf32) — 7/12/2021 @ 3:06 pmHit submit too soon.
Not the letter they signed, i assume they didn’t have a strong objection to the Zin projects message but what we know for sure is what they put their names to.
Time123 (bbaf32) — 7/12/2021 @ 3:09 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 2:36 pm
We’ve already gone through a round of “we’re not teaching CRT. Well, yes we’re teaching CRT but it’s not a problem”.
An over the top letter, signed by the righteous teachers who-are-only-doing-it-for-the-children, that includes the phrase
is one of those things people do when they believe they are serving The Greater Truth.
We’ve already had a different post about the anti-anti-CRT legislation crowd misrepresenting what a lot of these laws are saying. In this case, misrepresenting is a fancy word for lie.
The teachers signing this letter are doing the same thing. No one is telling them to lie. Literally, no one. To believe that, to sign a letter like that, you’ve got to be pretty deep into multiple layers of garbage. And this isn’t “an honest mistake” type of situation. There’s a lot of information available to the person wanting to inform themselves.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 3:33 pmExcept fort the Antit-CRT crew from Virginia that was upset about a 1st hand account from one of the first elementary school children to attend a de-segragated school. Link is in the previous thread.
Also, have you read the full Tennessee law?
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 3:44 pmExcept fort the Antit-CRT crew from Virginia that was upset about a 1st hand account from one of the first elementary school children to attend a de-segragated school. Link is in the previous thread.
Also, have you read the full Tennessee law? There’s legitimate cause for concern about how this could be implemented.
https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB0623&GA=112
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 3:44 pmTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 3:44 pm
Not sure what this is. From the description it doesn’t sound like that is anything about requiring teachers to lie.
Before I go read the TN law you’re saying it says that teachers have to lie about history? I’m willing to read it if you say it says that. Can you narrow it down for me or do I need to read the whole thing?
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 4:06 pm2 concerns
1. Prohibition against inclusion of material that holds one race as superior can be read to prohibit racist messages for the past that provide useful context, such as the corn stone speech.
2. How do you teach slavery or Jim Crow impartially? Seems like that provides a basis for people to complain that history lessons are making white people look bad. Which if you’re teaching the trail of tears is pretty accurate.
Final note: the signatories don’t have to be correct in their fears for the fact that they signed the letter to not support the original assertion that it was evidence “evil crt exists”
Time123 (bbaf32) — 7/12/2021 @ 4:16 pmTo be clear, my point on the TN law is not that it requires teachers to lie, but that it has a real risk of censoring the teaching of history.
Time123 (bbaf32) — 7/12/2021 @ 4:17 pm@401 i’m guessing most all of us here learned about jim crow and slavery without our teachers resorting to the methods the tenn law is targeting
the concern with the law is not that these topics can’t be taught
JF (e1156d) — 7/12/2021 @ 5:09 pmTime123,
Based on what you posted about the Tennessee law, I don’t see how that bolsters yours or any teacher’s case. Is the problem that they are prohibited from teaching that the USA or Tennessee is irredeemably racist? Is the problem that teachers can’t tar children and absolve others by declaring certain kids as inherently privileged because of their immutable traits such as skin color? Or is it that the schools should be teaching to a colorblind standard instead of a racist one?
Is this the desire or the Black Panther Party or Martin Luther King?
NJRob (e14cbc) — 7/12/2021 @ 5:56 pmRob, I spelled out my concerns already and you haven’t addressed them.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:01 pmYour concerns are false and were accurately dismissed by JF just a few posts ago. Were you prevented from learning history in school? Were you taught white people were inherently racist, privileged, or the other racist jargon pushed by Zinn project and CRTists? Has it been impossible to teach history without guilting present day students about our past? Is it impossible to discuss the past in the context of its time or must you hold them to our hyper racial standards?
Was MLK wrong?
NJRob (e14cbc) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:14 pmRob, None of that addresses my concerns about the law as written which appears far too broad. Can you address the concerns I raised or not? Starting to feel like not.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:26 pmYou cannot teach the Trail of Tears without teaching about Manifest Destiny.
If your goal is to focus on the race of the people rather than the choices made and why they were made, then you’re doing it wrong.
Using a historical speech and putting it in context does not run afoul of any laws unlike if you posted it to Social Media such as YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc.
NJRob (5d8620) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:17 pmWas MLK wrong?
MLK was a domestic terrorist, according to the FBI.
There are private “woke” schools if that’s what lefty parents want to subject their children to. Taxpayer funded public schools should not be teaching children to hate America, or feel guilty about the color of their skin. Or that they are better or worse than their classmates.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:34 pmSo again, you haven’t addressed the specific concerns I raised based on the text of the law. Because the text of the law appears to specifically ban exactly that.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:36 pmSure I did. You just don’t like the answers.
NJRob (5d8620) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:39 pmAnd… he loves you…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:48 pmHere’s the proof! https://youtu.be/KG1KLcogziY
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 7:53 pm364… Texas “Fleebaggers”…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/12/2021 @ 8:04 pmTime123 (bbaf32) — 7/12/2021 @ 4:17 pm
So, no one is requiring the teachers to lie. Why did you quote and respond to that comment? If no one is requiring them to lie then why are they pretending someone is?
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/12/2021 @ 6:26 pm
You’re just concerned the law is over broad? Is this a concern that is addressable? I can’t tell that it is based on the discussion I’ve seen.
My sense is that you generally agree with CRT, you think it’s important to teach systemic racism, but you don’t want it called out as racist. Is that about the long and short of it?
frosty (f27e97) — 7/12/2021 @ 8:12 pm“Was MLK wrong?”
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 7/13/2021 @ 12:15 amFrosty, I think CRT is a moral panic of little real impact fabricated for partisan advantage. I’m annoyed at badly written and overly broad laws in response it.
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my comment.
Additions in italics.
2 concerns about how the law could force teachers to use dishonest or incomplete versions of us history.
1. Prohibition against inclusion of material that holds one race as superior can be read to prohibit racist messages for the past that provide useful context, such as the corn stone speech.
2. How do you teach slavery or Jim Crow impartially? Seems like that provides a basis for people to complain that history lessons are making white people look bad. Which if you’re teaching the trail of tears is pretty accurate.
Final note: the signatories don’t have to be correct in their fears for the fact that they signed the letter to not support the original assertion that it was evidence “evil crt exists”
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:44 amThere are people trying to circulate a false version of history (the 1619 project and so on) but they are not succeeding so fast. You can worry about it. And a false version of history supports nonsense and corruption and insider patronage and extremely wrongheaded policy in the present.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/13/2021 @ 8:14 amDavethulhu (aa6793) — 7/13/2021 @ 12:15 am
MLK was at his weakest when he was talking about economics. It’s hard to be wrong when you’re only saying that something should be done and not actually proposing a thing.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/13/2021 @ 8:20 amI think most of the CRT or CRT-like stuff would be actually outside of the regular curriculum.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/13/2021 @ 8:28 amTime123 (9f42ee) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:44 am
You don’t and no one is suggesting that you do. Pretending that anti-CRT is an attempt to rewrite history is either a lie or a product of some seriously flawed thinking.
How exactly would an accurate history lesson of the trail of tears make present-day white people look bad? The fact that the goal is to assign guilt to present-day white people for something some other group of white people did is part of the racism that is being criticized. Another part is that CRT uses this to advance the idea that white people are inherently racist.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/13/2021 @ 8:31 amhttps://nypost.com/2021/07/10/washington-heights-school-staffers-have-no-confidence-in-principal-paula-lev-after-race-flap/
Having racists in charge of schools is not a good idea.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/13/2021 @ 9:18 amhttps://www.theblaze.com/news/marc-lamont-hill-whites-racist
The end result of this type of indoctrination is that racists think they are pure and that it’s everyone else that is the bigot.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/13/2021 @ 9:20 amThe law specifically requires that. Please read it.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/13/2021 @ 9:47 amMs. Field is five years too late. I knew the Claremont Institute was off the rails and firmly in Bizarro TrumpWorld back in ’16 after reading the Flight 93 Election.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 7/13/2021 @ 10:34 am142. Rip Murdock (680246) — 7/10/2021 @ 7:15 pm
It’s not exactly a First Amendment issue but it’s an overreach issue.
He arrested her for stealing somebody else’s sign – the prima facie evidence that it was someone else’s sign is that she was destroying it in a clearly antagonistic manner, and that she did not give a good story as to how she obtained it.
But the sign has little value and the person who out it wherever she really found it (she eventually claimed that she found it on the street) may not have had a right to put it where he did, and in all probability had no expectation of it staying very long where it was – unless it was on his property.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/13/2021 @ 11:05 amSome of the most privileged and useless people in history forever screaming about racism and how they are victims.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/cornel-west-harvard-racism-statement-b1883272.html
NJRob (7a15c0) — 7/13/2021 @ 12:45 pmAnd I read something where someone said (paraphrasing) that admission to Harvard should not be based on strict academic merit but on how many people Harvard graduates can influence and at 26% they have enough Asians for that purpose. Quite different words, but that was the idea.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/13/2021 @ 1:23 pmTime123 (bbaf32) — 7/12/2021 @ 4:17 pm
Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/13/2021 @ 9:47 am
Which is it? Does it run “a real risk of censoring” history or does it literally require it? Did we switch to a different law and I didn’t notice?
Like I mentioned, I’m getting a strong sense of what you think the outcome might be and how that differs from what you want it to be. I’m also noticing that you aren’t responding to any of my questions and are just starting to repeat assertions that you aren’t backing up.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/13/2021 @ 1:27 pmYou’re using “lie” and “censoring history” as interchangeable. They’re close but not exactly the same. Further, my comment in 424 was about the “impartiality” requirement, which is called out explicitly in the law, despite you assertion otherwise. You’re setting it next to the comments about lying and censoring which gives the mistaken impression I’m being inconsistent.
I think I’ve backed up my concerns by pointing out the parts of the law I’m concerned about and explaining why. You haven’t responded to that yet.
Time123 (723ab6) — 7/13/2021 @ 2:44 pmTime123 (723ab6) — 7/13/2021 @ 2:44 pm
I said two things anti-anti-CRT people are lying and CRT is racist. Otherwise, I’m just trying to make sense of the various things you’ve said.
I did. You just didn’t like it. Here’s another try. I don’t think there is a way to alleviate your concerns. Based on the various conversations we’ve had on this I’d say you should be concerned.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:00 pmFrosty, sorry the comments haven’t been better organized. I’ve been doing a lot of it on mobile and Im not communicating as well. Are you saying in 431 that you think the law will lead teachers to censor what actually happened when they teach US history? It sounds like you are but that seems unlikely.
Time123 (723ab6) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:07 pmThis sonuvagun is quite the Uniter…
https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1415027441681240066?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1415027441681240066%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ace.mu.nu%2F
Sundown Joe.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:21 pmTime123 (723ab6) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:07 pm
I haven’t reviewed the law so I’m not making any comments on it. I haven’t seen anything yet to support the idea that any of these laws will lead to the actual censoring or rewriting of history.
But I think the question is what censoring history means. I suspect that accurate history for an advocate of CRT is teaching how all white people have been, and still are, inherently racist. I suspect that accurate history for a critic of CRT is not teaching that all white people are inherently racist.
At this point, I’m pretty sure we don’t agree on basic assumptions.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:23 pmWhat I’ve been saying here for the past couple days is based on the law from TN. Link and text in 401. If you haven’t read that it’s no wonder we’ve been talking past each other. Knowing that some of you comments make more sense.
FWIW I wouldn’t agree with the asserting that all white people have been and still are inherently racist. Unless there’s some special definition of “racist” I’m not aware of.
Time123 (00e5cb) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:55 pmTime123 (00e5cb) — 7/13/2021 @ 3:55 pm
I don’t think that’s why we’ve been talking past each other.
Few people would admit to that since it’s an inherently racist position. It’s also easy to edge around the “all” part of that. Just point to one or two white people who you aren’t sure are racist. But it’s a logical consequence of many of the basic ideas from systemic racism, anti-racism, CRT, etc.
It’s sort of how violence, and starving, is an inherent component of marxism.
frosty (f27e97) — 7/13/2021 @ 4:12 pmI don’t think I typically play those kind of word games or am cagey about asserting what I think. But It didn’t seem like you believe I’m speaking in good faith on this so I’m just going to move on.
Time123 (bbaf32) — 7/13/2021 @ 5:11 pmThis seems like karma.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 7/14/2021 @ 9:00 amAccording to the officer, she was arrested for “……destroying property that did not belong to her in a manner to attempt to intimidate law enforcement, ……..”, not merely destroying a sign. “According to the affidavit, the allegations are being treated as a “hate crime enhanced allegation” due to “the demeanor displayed by [the woman] in attempts to intimidate law enforcement while destroying a ‘Pro Law Enforcement’ sign.”
It is well established that “giving the finger” to law enforcement is cannot result in a prosecution, and stamping on a poster while smirking at a cop is certainly an equivalent action.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/14/2021 @ 9:35 amMichael Kranish has a long one on Tucker Carlson, and Tom Nichols has one on JD Vance. Oddly, Kranish said scarcely a word about the Daily Caller, which Carlson co-founded and was filled with racist contributors, including the guy who organized the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 7/14/2021 @ 10:54 amBoth characters (Carlson and Vance, not Kranish and Nichols) embody the current execrable Trumpian culture in my GOP.
439. I also think that to prosecute someone for taking a sign you have to prove that it did not belong to her and was not abandoned. (and I think posted in a place where it is illegal to post a sign is constructive abandonment.)
And she can’ be cross examined as to where she got the sign. That’s what the 5th amendment is for.
And you’re right – claiming that she was trying to intimidate the police or making this into some kind of a hate crime won’t stand. That policeman knows the statute book and he was looking for something.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 7/14/2021 @ 11:14 am