Patterico's Pontifications

6/13/2021

Austin American-Statesman: We Refuse to “Perpetuate Stereotypes” by Releasing a Description of This Shooter … Because We Only Stereotype White People

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:35 am



Yesterday, there was a mass shooting in Austin, Texas, on Sixth Street, probably the city’s most well-known entertainment district. Up to 14 people were injured. In the hours after the shooting, the local paper, the Austin American-Statesman, declined to pass along a description of the suspect, citing the need to avoid “perpetuating stereotypes”:

Police have only released a vague description of the suspected shooter as of Saturday morning. The Austin American-Statesman is not including the description as it is too vague at this time to be useful in identifying the shooter and such publication could be harmful in perpetuating stereotypes and potentially put innocent individuals at risk. If more detailed information is released, we will update our reporting.

Since the current (incorrect) stereotype of mass shooters is that they are white males, I’m sure that’s the stereotype they were trying to avoid perpetuating, right? Lol j/k! As Andy Ngo notes, the police description of the suspect included the detail that the suspected shooter was black:

Anybody reading the “we don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes” language already knew what race the lefty editors were trying to protect. They might as well have added the other useful details that were available, like the suspect’s build, hair, and clothing.

But wait! Patterico, why do you assume that the Austin American-Statesman would take this position only with respect to a black suspect? Can you prove that they would have published a description of the shooter if he had been white? Huh? Well, can you?

Well, as it happens, I can go one better. Back in 2018, the very same Austin American-Statesman was writing about a bomber on the loose, whose package bombs had killed two people and injured a third. They didn’t have any sort of description of the suspect at all, much less one that included details like race, build, hair color, and clothing. But that didn’t stop them from speculating that it was probably one of those damned white males:

If the package bombs that have killed two Austin residents and seriously injured a third in recent weeks turn out to be the work of a single person, he or she will join a tiny but grim fraternity — serial killers whose weapon of choice was an explosive device.

The group is so small that police and psychologists’ efforts to draw meaningful conclusions about its members has met with uneven success. . . .

. . . .

Still, researchers have identified some broad characteristics that police turn to in trying to identify deadly bombers. All have been white men. While they have varied educational attainment, they were of above-average intelligence and mechanically inclined.

Almost always, they were furious.

To sum up, here is how the Austin-American-Statesman comes down on stereotyping by race:

Scenario A: a suspect description is available, and contains information about race, build, hair style, and clothing: namely, a “slim black male with dreadlocks who wore a black shirt.” Can’t publish that! That would perpetuate stereotypes!

Scenario B: we have no suspect description whatsoever. Anything we said would be pure speculation. But, you know who usually does this kind of crime, don’t you? Why, we all know the stereotype, and we will cheerfully tell you what that stereotype is: angry white males!

In short: we will gleefully stereotype by race, as long as the race we are stereotyping is whites.

If this kind of hypocrisy surprises you, please raise your hand.

I see no hands.

105 Responses to “Austin American-Statesman: We Refuse to “Perpetuate Stereotypes” by Releasing a Description of This Shooter … Because We Only Stereotype White People”

  1. I can picture the editorial meeting on this, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  2. It is a measure of how sick this society is that we are unsurprized by this. Even sicker is that most of us would be taking the same position as Donald Trump, albeit for rational reasons.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. Trump gets a shout out by the second comment.

    That is even less surprising…

    BuDuh (057eb3)

  4. Trump is the new Nostradamus.

    felipe (484255)

  5. Texas.
    Gunfight.
    So what.

    The issue isn’t race.

    It is guns.

    Over half a century ago, at a party w/some Brits in London- a world capital where, at the time, not even the coppers on the beat carried guns- a young woman asked me, ‘so where do you keep your guns?’ Startled, I informed her we did not own any guns. And in dead seriousness, she responded, ‘ALL Americans have guns.’

    This is the perception this wholly fvcked country projects when it comes to American obsession with guns and perpetual gun violence.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  6. @5 How do you propose to get rid of guns, DCSCA? Just outlaw them?

    The War on Drugs would like a word.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  7. So some vitamin-deficient asexuals on a cold, grimy, little island in the North Atlantic think we all have gubs, eh?

    We must do something about this!

    Immediately! Immediately! Immediately!

    Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph!

    Harrumph! Harrumph!

    nk (1d9030)

  8. The Statesman’s policy is a long-festering sore in the mainstream media. Along with mugshots of black arrestees. And I have seen it in at least one police department too.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. @7 Good one, nk.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  10. I can’t praise Blazing Saddles enough, norcal.

    nk (1d9030)

  11. @6. It’s certainly a problem excessively peculiar to the United States. You’d have to start some place, but not necessarily w/t guns. Perhaps w/what goes in them. But if the altercation in Austin had been a group pistol whipping or clubbing each other with empty shotguns, or a mere knife fight, it would likely not have been much of a story.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  12. @10 “Think of your secretary.” LOL!

    norcal (c66c6b)

  13. @11 Outlaw ammunition? Again, see the War on Drugs.

    Of course events in Austin would have been much better if people were using squirt guns. Of course.

    The question is how do you get there.

    Again, DCSCA, you’re long on sentiment and short on details.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  14. @12. Yes, do. She’s 76 year old now. Pretty much everybody else in that flick, save Mel, is dead:

    Cleavon Little, dead. Gene Wilder, dead. Slim Pickens, dead. Harvey Korman, dead. Madeline Kahn, dead. Alex Karras, dead. David Huddleston, dead. John Hillerman, dead. George Furth, dead. Count Basie, dead. Ralph Manza, dead. None, however, dead from gunshot wounds.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  15. The lone ranger and tonto are surrounded by angry indigenous people. The lone ranger tells tonto were in trouble now! Tonto tells the lone ranger what you mean “we” white man! You and me don’t make “we!” When I was growing up liberals talked about “we.” Now conservatives talk about “we.” I remember a song from back then. “The line it is drawn and the curse it is cast. For the times they are a changing!” “He who is now first will later (NOW) be last.” AOC not biden is the future.

    asset (19629d)

  16. @13. Rubbish. Suggested a place to start; that you fail to grasp it says more about your weak analogy to a addictive self-affliction than embarking on a path toward a solution to an excessively peculiar mania. If you become acquainted w/some families dealing w/a senseless loss through gun violence, like a wife merely buying groceries, your perception, and analogy, would change.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  17. @16 You did suggest a place to start, and I made the point that your suggestion was just as futile as trying to outlaw guns or drugs.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  18. @17. Rubbish. It certainly is a path to explore and certainly not a futile place to ‘start.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  19. @17 wrong. The people who die from illegal drugs while tragic is small compared to legal drugs like oxy-contin, cigarettes, alcohol and other legal drugs. Child pornography is very rare thanks to harsh penalties. Gun violence would all but disappear if their was similar harsh penalties for possession. If someone wants to dig a hole in the ground so it wouldn’t be confiscated the chance it would be used for gun violence is very small. In europe harsh penalties for drunk driving (20 years in prision for first offense) have made drunk driving a very small problem.

    asset (19629d)

  20. It’s certainly a problem excessively peculiar to the United States.

    LOL. It’s a problem excessively peculiar to the United States in the eyes of sissified Western socialist welfare states. Not the whole world.

    What I found especially scandalous in Iran-Contra is that Richard Secord was selling hand grenades to the CIA for $9 each when Albanian civilians could buy them on the street for $3 each. LOL otra vez.

    nk (1d9030)

  21. The people who die from illegal drugs while tragic is small compared to legal drugs like oxy-contin, cigarettes, alcohol and other legal drugs.

    Who’s up for Prohibition 2.0?

    norcal (c66c6b)

  22. 21. norcal (c66c6b) — 6/13/2021 @ 3:24 pm

    The people who die from illegal drugs while tragic is small compared to legal drugs like oxy-contin, cigarettes, alcohol and other legal drugs.

    Nobody died from Oxycontin.

    People died when their supply of Oxycontin was mindlessly cut off. And no substitute was offered.

    Cigarettes do kill, but maybe not as much as SSRIs.

    There are a lot more people using alcohol than some other things.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  23. In europe harsh penalties for drunk driving (20 years in prision for first offense)

    Not in the “europe” of this universe. In our Europe, of this, our, universe, a 20-year prison sentence us rare even for intentional murder. You just spout whatever pops in your head? What Europe has done is lowered is the BAC. 0.05% in most countries, down to 0.02 in Gretathunbergland.

    nk (1d9030)

  24. You’re confusing me with asset, Sammy.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  25. WAlmart voluntarily deciding to no longer sell ammunition is one thing, the government telling them….or severely restricting them…is another. See the 2014 (very liberal) 9th Circuit ruling on Jackson v. City of San Francisco.

    “The Second Amendment protects “arms,” “weapons,” and “firearms”; it does not explicitly protect ammunition. Nevertheless, without bullets, the right to bear arms would be meaningless. A regulation eliminating a person’s ability to obtain or use ammunition could thereby make it impossible to use firearms for their core purpose. Cf. Heller…Thus “the right to possess firearms for protection implies a corresponding right” to obtain the bullets necessary to use them.””

    I know a lot of liberals think this is the Rosetta Stone of beating the 2A….but when you don’t even have the 9th Circuit….you really are battling an uphill Constitutional beast

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  26. @20. Not the whole world.

    Except it is.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  27. @19. Injecting addictive behavior, which is a key element of his analogy, is weak. And he knows it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  28. Nevertheless, without bullets, the right to bear arms would be meaningless.

    Nonsense.

    Crossbowers beware!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  29. Injecting addictive behavior, which is a key element of his analogy, is weak. And he knows it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/13/2021 @ 3:44 pm

    There need not be an addiction to create a strong demand for something. Outlaw guns or ammo, and there will be so many people looking for them that black markets will fill the void.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  30. @30. Swing and a miss.

    Nice try.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  31. It’s not the gun, it’s the thug holding it. Which brings us back to the topic. There is a strong vested interest in many quarters to distract from thug violence with “gun violence”.

    And, yeah, I’ve been told I shouldn’t say “thug”. It’s racist.

    Trotruffles!

    nk (1d9030)

  32. @31 More of that detailed reasoning. Very persuasive.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  33. Breaking News- one of the Austin mass shooting victims has died. Per CNN, as of this day, there have been 272 mass shootings in the United States so far this year; 303 slain; 1,139 injured.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  34. @33. Swing and a miss. Strike two. ‘Course you could improve your batting average if you got juiced– but then, that can be addictive behavior. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. 32.It’s not the gun, it’s the thug holding it.

    Squirt or lube?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. 24. Yes it was asset who said:

    The people who die from illegal drugs while tragic is small compared to legal drugs like oxy-contin, cigarettes, alcohol and other legal drugs.

    Oxycontin was the ultimate cause but it started to kill people when they cut off the supply. Also: Rehab kills, because people don’t realize that what used to be an inadequate dose now is fatal.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  37. I knew asset said it, but I copied the wrong comment information. So it is everybody else who could get confused.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  38. Opiate withdrawal does not kill people. Although they do feel like they are dying. Alcohol withdrawal very well might.

    And it’s a piss-poor rehab program that does not tell its graduates that they may not have lost their habit but that they have lost their tolerance. Generally, they overdose on a substitute such as methadone when they try duplicate the effect of their former monkey, or if they’re on naloxone when they try to override it. And some are just stupid and never paid attention to, or forgot, the warning.

    nk (1d9030)

  39. Cigarettes do kill, but maybe not as much as SSRIs.

    Please tell me you’re kidding.

    lurker (59504c)

  40. @40. Nicotine is addictive, too.

    ‘Most smokers use tobacco regularly because they are addicted to nicotine. Addiction is characterized by compulsive drug-seeking and use, even in the face of negative health consequences. The majority of smokers would like to stop smoking, and each year about half try to quit permanently.’ – http://www.drugabuse.gov

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  41. Just for completeness… Here is a quick write up of the Austin Bomber (I think this is who Patterico was referring too):

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/austin-bombing-suspect-mark-anthony-conditt

    In this case, was a “white” (it seems) 23 year old conservative home schooled (at least some) bible studies male.

    And males in their teens to early twenties seem to be a “challenging” time for some.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/for-young-men-a-dangerous-age-for-mental-illness

    I understand what Pat is saying–But we cannot ignore when the “profiles” are correct either (like the paper did regarding this shooter–When there were eyewitnesses).

    -Bill

    BfC (d57b68)

  42. This is the perception this wholly fvcked country projects when it comes to American obsession with guns and perpetual gun violence.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/13/2021 @ 12:54 pm

    You’re just as likely to die in a drunk driving accident as you are to be killed by someone with a firearm. Alcohol causes 2-to-2.5 times the number of deaths (and is the root of an entire substance abuse treatment industry), but I don’t hear our Public Safety Advocates and gun control activists looking to repeal the 21st Amendment and bring back Prohibition.

    Maybe these statistics have changed since last year’s Summer Block Parties, but I doubt it. Violent crime tends to be tied to socio-economic conditions, not the relative leniency of our firearm laws.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  43. Over half a century ago, at a party w/some Brits in London-

    The 2nd Amendment is mostly the Brits’ fault. In the occupation period before the revolution, British troops attempted to disarm the colonies, making warrantless searches of houses and seizing any weapons found.

    As British troops sailed to Boston in 1768, the Boston Gazette reported that the ministry commanded things “more grievous to the people, than any thing hitherto made known,” the first of which was “that the inhabitants of this Province are to be disarmed.” By 1774, the British were routinely conducting warrantless searches and seizures of firearms in the Boston area, leading the Gazette to exclaim that “what most irritated the people next to seizing their arms and ammunition” was the arrest of patriot political leaders. King George III ordered the seizure of any firearms imported into the colonies.

    Just after the Redcoats’ attempt to seize the arms of the rebel militia at Lexington and Concord in 1775, Gen. Thomas Gage ordered all the inhabitants of Boston to turn in their arms at Faneuil Hall for temporary safekeeping. When the people complied, troops seized the firearms, never to return them. A patriot poet described Gen. Gage’s order as saying:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1995/05/31/when-the-redcoats-confiscated-guns/e38d0810-af85-4949-8d93-3da746601e65/

    The sheep that stayed in England were more compliant.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. I understand what Pat is saying–But we cannot ignore when the “profiles” are correct either (like the paper did regarding this shooter–When there were eyewitnesses).

    I’m fine with using such profiles, if based on facts and not idiotic woke ignorant prejudice (like “all mass shooters are white guys” which they aren’t). Whatever it takes to get the bad guys.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  45. From what I read in the press, police are involved in most shootings, particularly of unarmed black women and children. So, maybe we should be outlawing guns for police!

    Or maybe believing the well-filtered news. that we are constantly pummeled with, is a mistake. Maybe the police and the citizenry use firearms a lot more responsibly than the press makes it seem.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. Breaking News- one of the Austin mass shooting victims has died. Per CNN, as of this day, there have been 272 mass shootings in the United States so far this year; 303 slain; 1,139 injured.

    “Mass shooting” as defined how? 1.1 deaths per mass shooting? Is it a “mass shooting” when someone brandishes a gun with 4 people present? And how many of these are gang warfare? Would restricting them to knives be better?

    “Lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. And it’s a piss-poor rehab program that does not tell its graduates that they may not have lost their habit but that they have lost their tolerance.

    It’s a piss-poor rehab program that tells its “graduates” that they have graduated anything, and more than an “anger management” class has solved someone’s anger issues. Beating the physical addiction is trivial, compared to beating the factors that made drugs seem like a good idea in the first place.

    But then most rehab programs ARE piss-poor.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. * and more than…

    any more than…

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. Probably the funniest misconception that folks have about drug addiction is that reason, knowledge or willpower (or lack thereof) play any part in it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. In the occupation period before the revolution, British troops attempted to disarm the colonies

    Royals are gonna royal. What they should have done is just seize all the ammunition.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  51. Whatever it takes to get the bad guys.

    This should be a given across the spectrum of race, religion, sexual preference, etc. Unfortunately, it no longer is. There are now any number reasons why we must take particular care if the suspect is anything but white and male. But by setting up these stumbling blocks apprehending suspects can be delayed and the public further endangered. What a shame that the media has taken this position. They are not doing their job to keep the public accurately informed.

    Dana (fd537d)

  52. @52 Correct, Dana. It reminds me of Bill Maher’s definition of political correctness: the elevation of sensitivity over the truth.

    norcal (c66c6b)

  53. Royals are gonna royal. What they should have done is just seize all the ammunition.

    norcal (c66c6b) — 6/13/2021 @ 8:40 pm

    And the raw lead and bullet molds. There’s a Youtube channel called “Townsends” (basically, a living history company specializing in colonial-era clothes and food) that recently did a video on bullet-making for muskets. While it wasn’t necessarily a difficult process, it was definitely time-consuming and tedious.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  54. @54 A logical extension

    norcal (c66c6b)

  55. Demonizing a particular group and blaming them for all that ails the world. Where have I seen that before.

    As an addendum, if you looked at the FBI statistics on gun violence and looked at Caucasians, they have as low or a lower rate than the best European nations.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  56. @43. The risk factors differ; your wife and several other patrons shopping at lunch time in a grocery store aren’t likely to get run down and killed by a drunk shopping cart pusher rolling down the aisles at high speed inside a King Soopers in Boulder, Colorado.

    @47. Look it up.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  57. 56.Demonizing a particular group and blaming them for all that ails the world. Where have I seen that before.

    Wrigley Field?!?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  58. @43 Also, doubt very many drunk drivers get behind the wheel with the intent of killing as many motorists as they can as opposed to a stone cold sober mass shooter with the intent to kill as many bar patrons, grocery store shoppers, Walmart shoppers or concert goers at the crowded venues of their choice as fast as possible.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  59. Vegetables get a bad name because America is led by one.

    mg (8cbc69)

  60. This was not a mass shooting. It was a shootout between gang-members and innocent non-combatant bystanders were caught in the crossfire. Like Miami Beach. But “gang” has become politically incorrect, too, along with “thug”, apparently.

    nk (1d9030)

  61. I read someplace that the distinct “minority” of murdered people are those without “dubious associations”. Now, it does depend on the definition of “dubious” I suppose –rappers?, cruising gays? people with dreadlocks? — but it does sound intuitively right, doesn’t it?

    nk (1d9030)

  62. @57/59 The intent hardly matters when it comes to the empirical statistics, and empirically speaking, alcohol is the cause of far more deaths every year than guns are.

    Most gun control advocacy today is largely a marketing exercise that traffics in emotionalism rather than facts. That’s why the current crop of activists focus on AR-15s and their cosmetic features, which are statistically insignificant in the actual numbers of overall gun deaths. It’s interesting that you bring up Boulder, considering the “assault” gun ban that Boulder wanted to pass and was blocked by a judge wouldn’t have made a difference–the shooter was from west Arvada, in Jefferson County, and bought his gun there. Even the “red flag” law, which was passed to rapturous applause by the state’s Democrats and the party’s mouthpieces in the Front Range media, failed to stop him.

    And like the War on Drugs, or the War on Alcohol 100 years ago, the War on Guns will end up harming communities who aren’t actually being targeted by these measures. Gun control activists, supporters, and politicians, in their minds, believe their laws will largely hurt their socio-political enemies Chad, Jethro, and Billy Bob who go snake hunting on the weekend in the bayou or the range at the shooting club–the lower/middle-class white guys in the exurbs and rural areas that they despise. The reality is that Jamal and Jose in the ghettos/barrios of America’s urban paradises are going to be far more likely to see their door kicked for their transgressions than the former ever will.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  63. Also, does the Austin-America Statesman, or any other big-city newspaper for that matter, actually realize that any time they don’t explicitly mention the race of some violent criminal suspect now, it’s not only obviously a non-white person, but their fake news is deliberately covering up the crime?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  64. 9th Circuit: “Nevertheless, without bullets, the right to bear arms would be meaningless.”

    DCSCA: “Nonsense.”

    Both sides can be bit kooky. DCSCA and his clan refuse to acknowledge that people do have a right to self defense…..and the great equalizer to size and strength…is a gun. It’s tough to tell a widowed grandma or a 100lb hairdresser with an angry ex that they can’t feel safe in their home….and apparently just have to take it. Secondly, they also refuse to acknowledge that most of their preferred regulations don’t adress the mass shooting situations that animate them the most. That is for instance, the gun show loophole, however sensible, is not how mass shooters generally get their weapons. The cosmetic accessories of “assault weapons” isn’t what enables mass shootings….and limiting the number of bullets in a magazine just means the shooter brings more magazines. Common sense generally wears out pretty fast….and devolves to “we gotta do something.”

    Now the other side is equally whacky. I have an acquaintance that literally has scores of guns in her house hidden in fake books, taped under tables, and perpetually strapped to her leg while she is in her own house…..as if the zombie apocalypse was imminent…..or she lived in Cabrini Green…which she doesn’t. There’s a fear and obsession that doesn’t really match reality. The same goes with the oft repeated lament that we must be armed to the teeth in case our government goes rogue….or ala Red Dawn….the Russkies get the drop on us. There’s a bit of a Dirty Harry fantasy syndrome that baffles many. Still, this general hoardiness isn’t what drives inner city shootings, mass shootings…..and though it can figure into domestic disputes and suicides….it’s certainly not a prerequisite. People can be safely OCD and not be deadly….a point lost on the DCSCA crew.

    The reality is that the two groups simply don’t trust each other enough to do more background checks….let alone registration, licensing, and better red flag laws. Until both sides get more rational…and less emotional….nothing will change….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  65. But “gang” has become politically incorrect, too, along with “thug”, apparently.

    They’re OK in some circumstances. Just not with words like “black” because that would be a stereotype.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. @65 Except the reality is that the former are part of the left-liberal mainstream, and their arguments are typically broadcast far and wide at every opportunity. The latter type you describe are quite rare, but are portrayed as the vast majority of gun owners by the former because it suits their purposes to do so.

    This isn’t a “both sides” argument at all, and it’s not one group against the other–it’s one group driving the political narrative to make it seem like an either/or situation, with the help of their media allies, and financially backed by left-wing billionaires like Bloomberg.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  67. Also, does the Austin-America Statesman, or any other big-city newspaper for that matter, actually realize that any time they don’t explicitly mention the race of some violent criminal suspect now, it’s not only obviously a non-white person, but their fake news is deliberately covering up the crime?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/14/2021 @ 6:16 am

    I’m sure they do realize this. I don’t think they are seriously trying to change stereotypes so much as they are trying to be fashionable, woke, fit in with a pretty extreme group of lefties that have badly damaged Austin.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  68. I’m holding on to my “plastic guns = sex toys” theory. Pavlov is the only psychologist whose theories have been scientifically proven, both in the laboratory and in practice in the real world.

    And speaking of Pavlovian conditioning, that is what smoking is more of. As opposed to addiction. The physical withdrawal from nicotine is barely noticeable and extinguished in a couple of days. The pleasure and comfort associated with that puff of smoke and all the little rituals that accompany it remain with a smoker. Like learning to ride a bike. And the smoker feels is always on the bike.

    nk (1d9030)

  69. feels

    nk (1d9030)

  70. nk @61

    This was not a mass shooting. It was a shootout between gang-members and innocent non-combatant bystanders were caught in the crossfire. Like Miami Beach. But “gang” has become politically incorrect, too, along with “thug”, apparently.

    “Thug” I guess is supposed to be anti Indian (from the subcontinent), but gang?

    Kevin M @66

    They’re OK in some circumstances. Just not with words like “black” because that would be a stereotype.

    And then they won;’t be ablle to argue that blacks are being unfairly arrested and imprisoned.

    Statistics about who are the people in prison: OK

    Statistics about who are the people who commit crimes: Not OK

    This only serves the interests of promoting crime.

    Either pay no attention to either of those statistics, or to both. To do one and not the other is meritricious, and unsound. That’s what we’re dealing with.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  71. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 6/14/2021 @ 6:24 am

    .and limiting the number of bullets in a magazine just means the shooter brings more magazines.

    No, it slows him down and gives more opportunities for people to escape or stop him.

    Instead of red flag laws, insurance which can be withdrawn,

    Hunter Biden\s brother’s widow with whom he was having an affair threw away his gun, which he had just bought. by putting it into a dumpster. They eventually retrieved it. Giuliani says Hunter Biden broke the law in buying it, as he had to sign something that said he did not use illegal drugs and he had five days before he bought the gun.

    The New York Post has been exploring Hunter Biden’s files ad running scoops from time to time/.

    Hunter Biden also used the n-word (semi jokingly, on a white person) and once (more or less approvingly, about Barack Obama.

    He’s not getting cancelled or even forced to apologize. Because it’s not real if you only know that the New York Post says it was in his files, (nothing they print gets a denial)

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  72. “Except the reality is that the former are part of the left-liberal mainstream, and their arguments are typically broadcast far and wide at every opportunity. The latter type you describe are quite rare”

    Still is the answer more security guards, more concealed carry, and people stock piling more and more ammunition and AR-15’s? Do we need more George Zimmerman Barnie Fife’s? We’ve created a culture that is on edge….and perpetually angry and afraid of someone. I have family in the safest of safe suburbs all worried about illegal Hispanics. Who keeps them so afraid? It’s not the reality of their neighborhood. Both sides exaggerate and feed paranoia…..which means we never get to a point of having rational discussions. If you mix in some sociopaths and loners on the edge of society looking to go out with a bang, we get the shooting tragedies that we see. I have no great solutions….but it’s reason #65 for bringing the rhetoric down generally. We are addicted to hating each other….then are surprised when a sociopath can’t control his anger….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  73. Hunter Biden also used the n-word (semi jokingly, on a white person) and once (more or less approvingly, about Barack Obama.

    -ga, not the hard -r, is acceptable if uttered by white youth, just dont get pulled up on stage at a hip-hop concert for a sing along

    urbanleftbehind (add341)

  74. “No, it slows him down and gives more opportunities for people to escape or stop him.”

    What’s your evidence for this? Was the Virginia Tech shooter significantly encumbered by having to reload?

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  75. Nobody died from Oxycontin.

    I have been to two funerals of people who did.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. From Oxycodin itself? What about prescribed?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  77. -ga, not the hard -r, is acceptable if uttered by white youth, just dont get pulled up on stage at a hip-hop concert for a sing along

    urbanleftbehind (add341) — 6/14/2021 @ 7:52 am

    Tell that to the teen that the NY Slimes did an expose on to ruin her life and get her kicked out of the college she had been admitted to. The Slimes has no problem going after a random teen, but druggie Biden is off limits.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  78. …the great equalizer to size and strength…is a gun.

    Except it’s not.

    As Colonial Pipeline, boxcutter-wielding jet stealers and Covid dead learned the hard way.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  79. Still is the answer more security guards, more concealed carry, and people stock piling more and more ammunition and AR-15’s? Do we need more George Zimmerman Barnie Fife’s?

    These are loaded questions.

    We’ve created a culture that is on edge….and perpetually angry and afraid of someone…Both sides exaggerate and feed paranoia…..which means we never get to a point of having rational discussions.

    That’s the fault of society at large and the culture they created, not gun owners specifically. If we have a hyper-atomized, low-trust society riven with blame-shifting and increasing rates of mental illness amongst the young (recall the recent Pew survey that showed this is particularly prevalent amongst Gen Zers), then we need to focus on reversing those conditions. Pointing the finger at guns, as the activists wish to do, is nothing more than responsibility avoidance and fetishism.

    Personally, I believe reversing the generations-long Peter Pan syndrome in this country that began after World War II would be a good start, but I doubt the country at large as the will to do that. There’s too much money to be made pandering to our solipsistic pretensions and desire to “not adult today.”

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  80. Tell that to the teen that the NY Slimes did an expose on to ruin her life and get her kicked out of the college she had been admitted to. The Slimes has no problem going after a random teen, but druggie Biden is off limits.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 6/14/2021 @ 9:24 am

    He’s not off limits, he’s a crack head who knocked up a stripper. The fact that he uses racist language just isn’t surprising.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  81. That’s the fault of society at large and the culture they created, not gun owners specifically.

    True. America is a terribly violent culture and celebrates it in nearly all cultural pursuits and aspects of daily life- from ESPN to road rage- under the guise of competition and the self satisfaction of one-up-man-ship.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  82. “Personally, I believe reversing the generations-long Peter Pan syndrome in this country that began after World War II would be a good start”

    Still, consider the case of Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter that killed 58 people and injured 100’s of others. He went on a year-long buying spree of guns and ammunition, accumulating many of his 47 guns….24 of which he brought to the Mandalay Bay hotel….many with 100 round magazines, bump stocks, and pistol grips. The FBI found no clear motive. His internet history showed that he was researching police tactics and response, ballistics, and he was going to different sites to figure out where he could inflict the most damage on a lot of people. A 2A purist would argue that it was his constitutional right to assemble as vast of an arsenal as he wanted….without question….until he broke the law….which here, obviously, was too late. Certainly he could have done mass damage with only a couple of weapons and large capacity magazines. I’m not sure what the right answer is…but are we just to accept that the US will produce a certain number of loners with deteriorating mental health that won’t be detected….who will rain such carnage? Liberal gun grabbers are annoying but what lesson are we supposed to draw from Paddock?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  83. but what lesson are we supposed to draw from Paddock?

    The wrong one: you said it yourself: ‘the great equalizer to size and strength…is a gun.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  84. I have family in the safest of safe suburbs all worried about illegal Hispanics. Who keeps them so afraid?

    If you lived in the Village instead and rode the subway daily- or worse, nightly after 6- you’d know exactly “who keeps them so afraid.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  85. Imagine if this not-white shooter had done this in the projects of Chicago? How would the press react?

    Oh, that’s right, you don’t have to imagine. They wouldn’t write one word about it. Because they don’t write anything about the murders and shootings like this that take place almost daily in the projects of big cities like Chicago.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  86. Uh, the projects have largely been demolished since the late 1990s, which actually made things worse in terms of “horizontalizing” by way of Section 8 and relocation, first to “bougie” black neighborhoods and now almost everywhere, crime that had been kept concentrated vertically.

    urbanleftbehind (add341)

  87. Related to the editorial bias in the main post, here’s another tweet today by the execrable Andy Ngo:

    A major crash happened in Minneapolis involving a car and street protesters. One protester reportedly died. The driver was pulled out and assaulted by the crowd before being taken into police custody.

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1404337451984953344

    A crash did not “happen”, the driver deliberately drove into the crowd. Describing the driver’s apprehension by bystanders as “assaulted by the crowd” is also absurdly biased.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  88. To be fair, Hoi, there was a pretty good comparable to the 6th Street shooting in Chicago this past weekend:

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/6/12/22530678/shooting-75th-street-lens-bbq-chatham-roderick-sawyer

    urbanleftbehind (add341)

  89. “If you lived in the Village instead and rode the subway daily…”

    I have no problem with people being licensed to carry concealed if they must travel through dangerous neighborhoods. I’m not sure why you don’t want women to be able to protect themselves….at least have a fighting chance.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  90. @88 whatabout

    but ngo is a right-leaning provacateur not a journalist

    different standards

    and collision of hard object with his head happened kinda in the same way so he’s following standard reporting methods anyway

    “The “milkshake” that landed on Ngo….
    Davethulhu (bc6fa6) — 6/30/2019 @ 8:33 pm

    lmao

    JF (e1156d)

  91. “whatabout”

    Hardly.

    “different standards”

    Andy describes himself as a journalist, and is criticizing journalism.

    “lmao”

    I’m quoting Dana (the post’s author). Not my words. Who’s lamoing now?

    https://patterico.com/2019/06/30/portland-protests-photo-journalist-viciously-assaulted-by-antifa-thugs/

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  92. @88 Dave, Andy Ngo isn’t remotely trustworthy. But, he’s correct about the Austin statesmen

    Time123 (235fc4)

  93. A 5 year added sentence for anyone committing a crime with a gun would help curtail gun violence and tear the democratic party coalition apart.

    asset (5d0a71)

  94. 75. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 6/14/2021 @ 7:52 am

    Was the Virginia Tech shooter significantly encumbered by having to reload?

    Probably yes, but they were already too high capacity.

    He probably planned his killings around the limitations of his weapons. He maintained the element of surprise and only went into rooms where there were only relatively few people and there was no escape.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting

    According to several students, Cho looked into several classrooms before the rampage started, likely to see how many people were in each room.

    And he probably had too many cartidges per magazine

    For distraction, another student named Matthew LaPorte, who was a trained Air Force ROTC cadet, charged towards the gunman and attempted to tackle him, but died after being shot seven times in an attempt to save his class.

    A 9 mm handgun can contain between eight and 24 cartridges, (he actually used a 15-round magazine in one gun (a Glock) and a 10-round magazine in the other (a Walther) This is way too many, and he could have been carrying pre-loaded magazines. It would only take a few seconds to reload in that case.

    https://vpc.org/studies/vatechgunsbackgrounder.pdf

    The dominance of the semiautomatic pistol greatly increased the firepower in civilian. Not only are semiautomatic pistols capable of rapid fire, they utilize high-capacity magazines and can be quickly reloade. The combination of these features makes semiautomatic pistols efficient killing machines.

    He came with 17 magazines of ammunition. That was in Part II.

    First, he shot two people in one dorm at about 7:15 am, and left.

    He had enough time to go back to his dorm room in another building, where at this point none of his roommates were, change out of his bloodstained clothes, log on to his computer to delete his e-mails and his student university account, and then remove the hard drive, get rid of it as well as his cell phone, and go to a Post Office and mail a package of writings and video recordings to NBC News at 9:01 a.m.

    Then he went to another, third, building, chained the entrance doors shut, and placed a note on one, saying that attempting to open the door would cause a bomb to explode. It was found before the shooting started. But they, overall, were slow to react.

    That’s where he killed 30 people, and injured 17, in about 10 minutes. Six people were injured jumping from second story windows. He shot 28 people in the head at least once, and used hollow-point ammunition.

    He began shooting at 9:40 and the first call to 911 was received at 9:42 a.m. It stopped when he heard police coming and shot and killed himself (in spite of his bullet-proof vest) before the police even reached the second floor, where he was doing all the shooting. Police had actually arrived at 9:45 am but it took them five minutes to get into the building. He had 203 rounds of ammunition remaining.

    There were thirteen students in the first room. He positioned himself by the door and first killed the professor and then nine of the thirteen students in the room. He injured two others and missed one. He fired down the hall at two students but they were able to flee down the stairs.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  95. Was the Virginia Tech shooter significantly encumbered by having to reload?

    He probably didn’t reload, just switched magazines. And he came with 2 guns that held a combined 25 rounds of ammunition. Even so, he checked the number of people in the room beforehand.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  96. “@88 Dave, Andy Ngo isn’t remotely trustworthy. But, he’s correct about the Austin statesmen”

    Well, yes, but actually no. The problem isn’t liberal bias or “wokeness” or whatever. That doesn’t explain his own misrepresentations, or those of Fox news or talk radio. News outlets tailor their reporting to appeal to their consumers. They all position themselves as the arbiters of truth, but they’re all compromised to some degree. I have no idea what a solution might be.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  97. 86.

    Imagine if this not-white shooter had done this in the projects of Chicago? How would the press react?

    They’d lump it in with other shootings. At least that’s what they’re doing now. They have gotten interested in reporting statistics and are keeping score:

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-city-shootings-violence-20210612-cekhcwbr7rcwhicgqzifw7ef4u-story.html

    24 shot, 3 fatally, in Chicago weekend violence, including 10 people injured in single mass shooting in Chatham neighborhood

    …The mass shooting in Chatham took place shortly after 2 a.m. Saturday, as a group of people was on the sidewalk in the 7500 block of South Prairie Avenue when two gunmen approached and opened fire.

    … A 29-year-old woman suffered wounds to the abdomen and left knee, and was pronounced dead at the University of Chicago Medical Center. Nine others were shot and taken to area hospitals:

    It is interesting to note, everywhere, that shootings have risen much more than killings. That’s because a lot of people doing the shooting are new to guns.

    In the movies, and on television, when someone is shot at, they’re usually killed, and the gunman just has to aim in the general direction.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  98. Hey, urbanleftbehind! Did you read about the mistrial at Markham? The jury was dreadlocked.

    nk (1d9030)

  99. I thought that was the trial in Maywood. And in Bridgeview the female jurors doesnt have to be told twice to cover their face when leaving the jury room.

    urbanleftbehind (a4fc13)

  100. asset @94-

    A 5 year added sentence for anyone committing a crime with a gun would help curtail gun violence and tear the democratic party coalition apart.

    There are already sentencing enhancements for using a gun in California, ranging from 1 year to life in prison, and it doesn’t seem to have any impact on voting behavior. Federal law also includes firearm enhancements. Neither have been shown to curtail gun violence.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  101. Illinois (D) has a 20-year enhancement for discharging a firearm during a crime/25 if somebody’s hit. Florida (RT) is the same or harsher. Ten of the twelve years of Ramos’s and Compean’s sentences under federal law were a ten-year mandatory minimum for using a firearm. This stuff serves mainly to feed the prison industry.

    nk (1d9030)

  102. This stuff serves mainly to feed the prison industry.

    I’m okay with that.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  103. Liberal gun grabbers are annoying but what lesson are we supposed to draw from Paddock?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/14/2021 @ 10:37 am

    Paddock was an outlier, so I don’t believe we can draw any kind of “lesson” from him any more than what was drawn from Charles Whitman, or James Holmes, or the random gangbanger who does a drive-by–other than that these incidents are actually quite rare and are largely elevated due to media attention, especially since the frenzy and false narratives that came out of Columbine made the act far more dramatic and culturally glamorous. Indeed, until last year gun crimes were relatively flat for years since the passage of the 1994 crime bill. Most increases have been due to suicides, not murders.

    Incidentally, I went to high school in Aurora, Colorado, during that time that the crime bill was passed, and lived right down the street from where the theater shooting took place (it wasn’t built until several years after I graduated, however). The crime rates and shootings were a LOT worse back then because California OGs had moved in to the Denver metro area in the mid-late 80s to expand their drug networks, and the closures of Lowry, Fitzsimons, and the Rocky Mountain Arsenal took a lot of military and civilian middle-class families out of the area as well. However, the city is a lot more ethnically and economically balkanized now than it was back then. It’s not a particularly nice place to live unless you’re south of Quincy Avenue.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  104. 72. 74. What the news story talks about is text messages. The New York Post cites the Daily Mail as its source – I don;t know why not itself, since the New York Post is who got the files through Giuliani. (who got them from the computer repairman in Delaware, who recovered them from the hard drive that couldn;t boot but could be read – they were all stored/backed up in Hunter Biden’s iCloud account.

    Hunter Biden never came for the hard drive he brought in to put the recovered files on (probably because he had the files on another computer which he got – but never returned or paid for – an external keyboard and in any case the data files were 99% in his iCloud account.)

    In December 2019 the FBI picked up both the original hard drive and the external hard drive but the repairman still had the files because to recover the fiiles he’d first put them on his server.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)


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