Patterico's Pontifications

6/11/2021

In Upcoming Talks Between Biden and Putin, Guess Whose Side Trump Is On?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



An Internet friend says “Trump’s.” And that’s ultimately the right answer. But if all Trump cares about is himself, then ask yourself: given that Putin has praised Trump and Biden has criticized him . . . then between Biden and Putin, whose side is he on?

The answer is wholly unsurprising:

Former President Donald Trump on Thursday wished President Biden luck in his upcoming meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin — and also encouraged him to stay awake.

“Good luck to Biden in dealing with President Putin—don’t fall asleep during the meeting, and please give him my warmest regards!” Trump said in an emailed statement.

“Warmest regards” to Putin; “don’t fall asleep” to Biden. Friendliness towards the President of Russia; derision for the President of the United States.

Yeah, he’s on Putin’s side.

Such basic hostility to our side — such a basic lack of patriotism — cannot be justified on the basis that it’s attributable to narcissism. Even though it obviously is.

Trump cares about Trump — more than principles or our country, he cares about himself. And dictators know this about him, which is why they are able to play him like a fiddle.

85 Responses to “In Upcoming Talks Between Biden and Putin, Guess Whose Side Trump Is On?”

  1. But we probably should not talk about the insane statements of the presumptive nominee for one of the two major parties because that’s not news.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  2. Well, Biden’s been pretty good to Putin, too, giving him all that Arctic oil. Of course, Putin LIKES global warming, or any other kind of warming.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. Maybe they’ll talk about getting more stimulus checks to Russians. They’ve gotten a lot so far.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. Trump knows he has to side with Biden – therefore he mentions Biden first, and wants Biden to pass along a message. But, yes, \\\\\\\\\\\\trump indicates he likes or maybe respects, Putin more.

    Biden is going to complain a lot to Putin – not threaten much. One more thing Biden could ask for – the question of the lab escape of the circa 1950 flu virus in 1977, probably from a Siberian lab.

    Of course Russia can blame China and China blame Russia and both can just ignore it, plead ignorance, or act outraged at being asked.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  5. In the meantime, studies show Hydroxychloroquine did help some patients treating the Wuhan Lab Virus, the AG report shows Trump didn’t order Lafayette Park cleared, and it’s also more likely that the virus was leaked from a Chinese Lab.

    Carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  6. Re: #3… dont forget unemployment checks as well.

    urbanleftbehind (94df7a)

  7. If Trump were still President he would have hit those Russian hackers with cruise missiles. But not President Muffley. Are we not men!?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. I have low expectations of this meeting. Trump wanted to give stuff to Putin, Biden doesn’t, but gives it anyway. I’ll be happy if we still own Alaska when he gets back.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. America First!!
    (Except for all the Americans who don’t worship Donald Trump. They are traitors and scum.)

    Radegunda (33a224)

  10. And just a reminder that Biden is shutting pipelines that Trump opened while letting Putin open pipelines directly to Europe.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  11. “Warmest regards”

    “This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,”

    BillPasadena (5b0401)

  12. the AG report shows Trump didn’t order Lafayette Park cleared

    It shows that the forcible clearing began immediately after Bill Barr went to the White House and asked the Park Police “Are these people still going to be here when POTUS comes out?”
    But keep pretending that the totally absurd Trump photo op had nothing to do with the timing and manner of the clearing. And that Barr didn’t lie about the use of tear gas.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  13. “Warmest regards”
    “This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,”

    Republicans certainly made a radical change in their standard for how an American president should treat Putin.

    I was one of those who were appalled by Obama’s hot-mic sotto voce remark. But few of those people seem to be the least bit offended by Trump’s open kowtowing to Putin, or the way he said that the United States had been no better than Putin in terms of assassinations, or the way he has publicly taken Putin’s side over U.S. governing institutions.

    When people make Donald Trump their North Star of patriotic virtue and took the position that his critics are always wrong and he is always right, they had to abandon intellectual consistency and moral principle.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  14. But we probably should not talk about the insane statements of the presumptive nominee for one of the two major parties because that’s not news.

    Teddy Roosevelt (a far better man) was the presumptive nominee for the GOP in 1920, but he died in 1919. The GOP Convention took 10 ballots to nominate Harding, who won in a landslide. The Democrats took 44 ballots to select their guy.

    I am looking forward to the post-Trump era.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. “In the meantime, studies show Hydroxychloroquine did help some patients…”

    This is funny to me….as if Dr. Trump had gone off and done the science and now he is somehow vindicated. Trump was willing to gamble with people’s lives to score a political point on handling the pandemic. This comes back to the fundamental problem with Trump….authenticity. He will distort, lie, and ignorantly pontificate on important matters to such a degree that it makes it hard for people to trust him when he might accidentally arrive on the right side of an issue. This is a character flaw that makes him an awful ambassador for a conservative party….and why we need to move on.

    “AG report shows Trump didn’t order Lafayette Park cleared”

    But was the President engaged in a noble and thoughtful visit…or was it intentionally provocative? I get that we are supposed to draw from this that the press is unfair in spinning its own meme….and that they are biased and despicable….I get it….but the entire episode….from either perspective….gives me a big yawn. I just don’t care….this is a small potato action that is hard to score as a win in any way.

    “more likely that the virus was leaked from a Chinese Lab”

    Anything China related is going to be instantaneously deformed by misinformation…it’s the nature of the communist beast. But the confusion surrounding this issue was sown in no small measure by Trump, who used China as a transparent gambit to distract from his failure to respond to the pandemic. Trump’s statements routinely contained a mix of false, unproven, and irrelevant assertions…..and the key question remains, are we to believe that this leak was intentional versus accidental? Yes, the media made their own untested claims about the security protocols of the Wuhan facility and once again out kicked the coverage….and they should be held to account that they misled people about what was or was not debunked…but who here ever believed that China would “come clean” or provide evidence one way or the other? Again, evidence talks….while idle speculation…is just that. Is this about serious diplomacy…or serious trolling? Which do we need?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  16. Biden is lucky that he only has Trump’s act to follow. After a “1”, a “3” looks golden.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. This is funny to me….as if Dr. Trump had gone off and done the science and now he is somehow vindicated.

    Yeah, it’s like the guy betting double-0 on the roulette wheel is “vindicated” when it finally shows up.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. Biden Accurately Pegs Putin as a Killer

    President Joe Biden indisputably got the attention of his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. It turns out Putin is a little thin-skinned about being called a soulless killer. Who would have known?

    In an interview with ABC’s George Stephanopoulos, Biden recounted one of his many stories of bravura, this time during a meeting in Putin’s Kremlin office when Biden was vice president.

    “I’m looking into your eyes, and I don’t think you have a soul,” Biden recalled saying.

    This was an apparent reference to a famous statement by President George W. Bush after he met Putin. Bush had said he looked into the Russian president’s eyes and was “able to get a sense of his soul.”

    Biden, retelling his own encounter with Putin, said: “He looked back at me and said, ‘We understand each other.’”

    Stephanopoulos asked: “So you know Vladimir Putin; you think he’s a killer?”

    The American president responded without hesitation: “Uh-huh, I do.”
    ……..
    Biden got this one exactly right.

    Bush had looked into Putin’s eyes and thought he found understanding. President Barack Obama sent Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to Russia with a feeble and incorrectly translated “reset button.” President Donald Trump wanted to find common ground with the Russian government, even though his record was far tougher than his predecessors’.

    But you just can’t deal with a killer.

    Putin is a killer because his meteoric rise to power was based on one of the most brutal and bloody military actions in history, the siege of the Chechen capital of Grozny during the Second Chechen War in 1999.
    …….
    Putin aimed his scorched-earth strategy in Chechnya at squashing the insurrection that sprung up during the days of the Soviet Union’s dissolution. Between late 1999 and early 2000, overwhelming Russian forces laid siege to Grozny, Chechnya’s capital.

    As Putin turned his weapons on civilian targets, 300,000 of Grozny’s 800,000 civilians fled the city. Between 50,000 and 80,000, most civilians, were killed. Russian tanks flattened the city.

    Grozny was likened to the ruins of Dresden and Hiroshima; the United Nations described it as “the most destroyed city on earth.”
    …….
    Putin is also a killer because of his military and political support for Syria’s brutal dictator, Bashar Assad.

    In 2011, the Kremlin renewed its alliance with the Assad regime, taking advantage of the power vacuum created by Obama’s reluctance to be entangled in Syria. The result was the use of the lethal nerve gas sarin in 2013 against hundreds of Syrians, including children, and also during the years of war that followed.

    In 2015, Russia became militarily involved in Syria in the first conflict beyond its borders since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. The Russian air force targeted hospitals and medical facilities, especially in Syria’s northwestern areas.
    ……..
    Putin is also a killer because of the continuing Russo-Ukrainian War in the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine, which began more than seven years ago.

    The war…… has resulted in approximately 14,000 combat-related deaths. Russia is the one to blame for starting the war, and Russian aggression is the reason for its continuation.

    In Ukraine, Russia is also responsible for annexing Crimea, persecuting the Crimean Tatars, and downing Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, killing all 298 aboard in 2014.
    …….
    ……[Putin] kills the hope of a better future for Russian citizens for the foreseeable future.

    Putin also is a killer for actually killing, or attempting to kill, some of his critics. In 2006, two Russian FSB agents assassinated a Putin critic, Alexander Litvinenko, by lacing his tea with the radioactive metal polonium. In 2015, several Chechens assassinated Putin critic and opposition leader Boris Nemtsov by gunshot on the prominent bridge off Red Square.

    In 2018, two agents with the Main Intelligence Directorate, or GRU, attempted to assassinate former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia with a military-grade nerve agent known as Novichok. The two agents managed to kill an innocent bystander with the nerve agent.

    In 2019, agents of the Russian or Chechen government publicly assassinated a Georgian man in Berlin for being a Chechen separatist. Last year, a team of FSB agents also attempted to assassinate Navalny with Novichok.

    Over the years, Russia has poisoned multiple others for what it deemed disloyalty to the state. It is likely that Putin was behind all these assassinations and assassination attempts.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  19. As for the labs … if there was significant evidence that it had come by mutations in animals, China would have bought ads in the NY Times to display it. Instead they come up with BS stories about coming from foreigners, or the US Army, or space aliens. They tried to hide it for months, then lied about it when they couldn’t hide it, then started with disinformation when that didn’t work.

    This is what guilty people do.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. If Trump were still President he would have hit those Russian hackers with cruise missiles.

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  21. Putin is a killer! — News at 11!

    It’s not so much that Biden says it, but that Trump did not. That Biden knows rain when it hits him does not make him a great president. Just better than Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. it’s also more likely that the virus was leaked from a Chinese Lab

    Some virologists think otherwise, on the basis of the virus’s genome. But plenty of people who aren’t virologists, or scientists of any kind, seem to think they’re pretty close to a definitive answer — for reasons that are more political than scientific.

    It’s funny to see so much determination to expose the real origin of the virus on the part of largely the same people who were committed to the view that Covid was a hoax concocted by Democrats to crash the economy and “hurt Trump.”

    They’re crowing “Trump was right all along!” about a lab leak, but ignoring all the times that Trump made ridiculous pronouncements about Covid: It would quickly go from 15 cases to zero; it would just disappear, like a miracle; it would be pretty much gone by Easter 2020; “we have it totally under control.”

    Trump said in February 2020 that Xi Jinping was “doing a very good job” with the coronavirus. In fact, he praised Xi for his handling of the situation many times.

    John Bolton is not the only person who believes that Trump’s policy was to “prioritize his own re-election worries or personal relationship with Xi ahead of public health concerns.”

    But yeah, Trump was always the “tough on China” hero who got it right from the beginning and never hesitated to “tell it like it is.” Sure.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  23. I am looking forward to the post-Trump era.

    “Here’s the deal”: You’re in it. Now.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  24. Yeah, he’s on Putin’s side.

    Still doing Putin’s bidding in a different role.

    nk (1d9030)

  25. All the same, both W and Obama had cordial relations with Putin, although Obama soured on him at the end. Obama mocked Romney in 2012 for saying that Putin was a problem. Maybe this is wishful thinking vs not thinking, but still.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  26. as if Dr. Trump had gone off and done the science and now he is somehow vindicated.

    Trump has been known to take every side of many issues and to contradict himself frequently. So his loyal followers just have to pick the past statement or position that’s agreeable to them or that now appears mostly likely to be true, and then say “Trump was right! Again!!”

    Radegunda (33a224)

  27. I am looking forward to the post-Trump era.

    “…and as the players tried to take the field, the marching band refused to yield”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  28. He really should be tried for treason. But he’s more valuable to the Democrats, most of them not a whit more loyal to America than he is, as a catspaw to keep the GOP in chaos and the Democrats in their phony-baloney jobs.

    nk (1d9030)

  29. He really should be tried for treason. But he’s more valuable to the Democrats, most of them not a whit more loyal to America than he is, as a catspaw to keep the GOP in chaos and the Democrats in their phony-baloney jobs.

    HEY! I’ve been saying this all along! Plagiarist!

    😉

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. Also, it’s better to have the continuing show trial in the left-leaning press than to waste it all on a courtroom where facts are more important than spin.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. “Good luck to Biden in dealing with President Putin—don’t fall asleep during the meeting, and please give him my warmest regards!”

    It’s just not a serious comment that serious people say about serious events. Trump would seem most happy to be a panelist on The View….constantly amusing himself with idle speculation andpersonal jabs….with low probability that his statements would at all matter. But as President and now ex-President….just stop. We deserve better…no?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  32. It’s not so much that Biden says it, but that Trump did not.

    Or GWB. The last two Republican presidents seem to to have been enamored with Putin.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  33. Nobody said that hydroxychloroquine did not help with some Covid symptoms. They said that it was not The Cure. Like the orange traitor claimed. And it was not. Nowhere near.

    Aspirin, dexamethasone, remdesivir, and monoclonal antibodies are what saved Trump’s wrinkled old ass when he came down with it. No family-making hydroxychloroquine of which he was given none of.

    nk (1d9030)

  34. Yeah, well, Americans ‘hope’ President Plagiarist, our shuffling, Squinty McStumblebum, has his Geritol and the energy to take Putin “behind the high school gym” — where Vlad can beat him up out of camera range.

    You can’t teach an old Biden new tricks.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. Some virologists think otherwise, on the basis of the virus’s genome. But plenty of people who aren’t virologists, or scientists of any kind, seem to think they’re pretty close to a definitive answer — for reasons that are more political than scientific.

    It’s funny to see so much determination to expose the real origin of the virus on the part of largely the same people who were committed to the view that Covid was a hoax concocted by Democrats to crash the economy and “hurt Trump.”

    They’re crowing “Trump was right all along!” about a lab leak, but ignoring all the times that Trump made ridiculous pronouncements about Covid: It would quickly go from 15 cases to zero; it would just disappear, like a miracle; it would be pretty much gone by Easter 2020; “we have it totally under control.”

    Trump said in February 2020 that Xi Jinping was “doing a very good job” with the coronavirus. In fact, he praised Xi for his handling of the situation many times.

    John Bolton is not the only person who believes that Trump’s policy was to “prioritize his own re-election worries or personal relationship with Xi ahead of public health concerns.”

    But yeah, Trump was always the “tough on China” hero who got it right from the beginning and never hesitated to “tell it like it is.” Sure.

    Radegunda (33a224) — 6/11/2021 @ 10:12 am

    Since you directly quoted me above you are tying this lie to me. Either retract and apologize or show your proof that I said such nonsense. It’s a direct violation of this site’s rules to do what you did here and have done repeatedly because your personal hatred of Trump. It’s a smear and disgusting.

    Heck, show me saying any of the nonsense you spouted in response to my quote.

    Or apologize.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  36. Nobody said that hydroxychloroquine did not help with some Covid symptoms. They said that it was not The Cure. Like the orange traitor claimed. And it was not. Nowhere near.

    Aspirin, dexamethasone, remdesivir, and monoclonal antibodies are what saved Trump’s wrinkled old ass when he came down with it. No family-making hydroxychloroquine of which he was given none of.

    nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2021 @ 10:26 am

    Please show the quote where anyone said it was “the Cure.”

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  37. If he doesn’t display the political strength–or energy– to control his party, push his agenda through Congress, LBJ or FDR-style – even w/a slim majority, yet still a majority all the same, he sure as hell isn’t going to tell Putin how to eat the cabbage. Review their history; Russians respect strength and will push until pushed back upon.

    Ol’Squinty McStumblebum does not project strength.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  38. “I’m looking into your eyes, and I don’t think you have a soul,” Biden recalled saying.

    If you dare question Biden’s Catholicism, you are a Republican terrorist.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  39. If the press were indeed impartial, they would ask what kompromat Putin has on Biden and why Biden is okay with a Russian gas pipeline into Western Europe, enriching Putin and giving Russia leverage over our NATO allies.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  40. why Biden is okay with a Russian gas pipeline into Western Europe

    Should he nuke the pipeline or nuke Western Europe?

    Why was Trump okay with Putin shooting down Malaysian Airlines Flight 17? Sheesh!

    nk (1d9030)

  41. Since you directly quoted me above you are tying this lie to me. Either retract and apologize or show your proof that I said such nonsense.

    Where is the lie?

    Where did I tie the bolded statement “directly” to you?

    The claim that I did so is a false statement. I won’t say it’s a “lie” because I’m fair-minded enough to assume it was a misunderstanding. But it could have been excessive eagerness to tar me as an evil, dishonest person.

    Your whole comment #5 was (as usual) in the vein of Trump was always right and his critics have always been wrong and unfair and mean. I was illustrating the mental contortions that are commonplace among Trump defenders in their efforts to maintain that general position.

    It’s a fact that Trump-world was long devoted to the idea that Covid was a sham, designed to “hurt Trump,” and that now Trump-world is obsessed with proving that Trump was always right about the real origins of the terrible plague that China sent to us.

    If you recognize that the first is “nonsense” and that the about-face is weird, that’s a start.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  42. “Please show the quote where anyone said it was “the Cure.””

    “Nobody needs to get sick. This virus has a cure – it is called hydroxychloroquine, I have treated over 350 patients and not had one death,” said Dr Stella Immanuel. This is the same Dr. Immanuel whose video tweet Trump then retweeted…creating his first fecal storm on the topic.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  43. Please show the quote where anyone said it was “the Cure.”

    I’m sorry I even dignified the claim about the “new studies” in the first place. One involving 255 patients on ventilators who were given hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin and another from India about people taking hydroxychloroquine and zinc “prophylactically”. As much as I hate saying the same thing twice, perseveration being a sign of dementia …: Sheesh!

    nk (1d9030)

  44. Should he nuke the pipeline or nuke Western Europe?
    Why was Trump okay with Putin shooting down Malaysian Airlines Flight 17? Sheesh!
    nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2021 @ 10:58 am

    He can oppose it as vehemently as he opposed the Keystone pipeline. He can warn Germany from making deals with our arch-enemy, Russia.

    He can provide Germany and Western Europe with more access to American energy, help them develop more alternative energy sources like nuclear or solar or wind power.

    Or, he can just nap and doze his way through his Europe trip.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  45. 10.And just a reminder that Biden is shutting pipelines that Trump opened while letting Putin open pipelines directly to Europe.

    Yeah, but that’s a somewhat provincial perspective if you winter in New Jersey and not on the Isle of Jersey in the Channel Islands. Basic, physical geography has a lot to do with perceptions and perspectives for Europeans when dealing w/ 21st century Russia, particularly on energy needs, just as American policies toward Mexico and Canada appear distant to Europeans today. The American century is well over; WW2 ended 75-plus years ago; Europe is rebuilt w/modern social and physical infrastructures, thriving and moved on from much of American dependency and influences– something Americans really haven’t understood or accepted; the quality of day to day life is better in Dusseldorf than in Detroit. And if Russian energy resources keep the lights on and the homes warm in 21st century winters there- so be it.

    “Can’t Buy Me Love” – The Beatles, 1964

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  46. It shows that the forcible clearing began immediately after Bill Barr ….

    You should read the report. The clearing of the area became “forcible” after the police were attacked by the rioters.

    You keep getting this point wrong.

    BuDuh (31c9e3)

  47. I never understood why defiling American land so Canada could ship its oil overseas from Port Anthur was a pro-American thing.

    nk (1d9030)

  48. Basic, physical geography has a lot to do with perceptions and perspectives for Europeans when dealing w/ 21st century Russia,

    We’ve been told (more like scolded) by the media and liberals that Europe is way ahead of us in terms of renewable energy and Germany in particular is well on its way to energy self-sufficiency through its use of solar and wind.

    If that is true, it is hard to see why anyone in Europe needs Russia’s fossil fuels.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  49. I am looking forward to the post-Trump era.

    Unfortunately, the media won’t let that era begin. Trump is and will be a bugbear as long as he is alive, even if not in office.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  50. @38. They can compare notes on who was more adept at pillaging, thievery and inqusitions: crusading popes or czars and their cossacks. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  51. “Unfortunately, the media won’t let that era begin. Trump is and will be a bugbear as long as he is alive, even if not in office.”

    Trump is the leader of the Republican party.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  52. Trump is the leader of the Republican party.
    Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/11/2021 @ 12:44 pm

    Was W Bush the leader of the Republican party from 2008-2016?

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  53. Your whole comment #5 was (as usual) in the vein of Trump was always right and his critics have always been wrong and unfair and mean. I was illustrating the mental contortions that are commonplace among Trump defenders in their efforts to maintain that general position.

    It’s a fact that Trump-world was long devoted to the idea that Covid was a sham, designed to “hurt Trump,” and that now Trump-world is obsessed with proving that Trump was always right about the real origins of the terrible plague that China sent to us.

    If you recognize that the first is “nonsense” and that the about-face is weird, that’s a start.

    Radegunda (33a224) — 6/11/2021 @ 11:05 am

    Nonsense. My comment was just a remark that when something changes and something is forced to report that isn’t negative to Trump it’s ignored because positive information related to Trump must not be reported. Your constant refrain of “Orange Man Bad” proves as much.

    Thanks for doubling down.

    NJRob (becb02)

  54. 47.I never understood why defiling American land so Canada could ship its oil overseas from Port Anthur was a pro-American thing.

    You need to bone up on the Corporate Cosmology of Arthur Jensen:

    ‘There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today… There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. … The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale.’ – Arthur Jensen [Ned Beatty] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  55. “Was W Bush the leader of the Republican party from 2008-2016?”

    No, but also irrelevant. Who then is the leader if not Trump? I think Liz Cheney might have an opinion.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  56. Our esteemed host wrote:

    “Warmest regards” to Putin; “don’t fall asleep” to Biden. Friendliness towards the President of Russia; derision for the President of the United States.

    Yeah, he’s on Putin’s side.

    No, that doesn’t mean that he’s on Vladimir Vladimirovich’s side; it simply means that he doesn’t think much of President Biden. That’s OK; a lot of people don’t.

    The Dana in Kentucky (78a597)

  57. Mr Polloi wrote:

    I am looking forward to the post-Trump era.

    Unfortunately, the media won’t let that era begin. Trump is and will be a bugbear as long as he is alive, even if not in office.

    It’s called living rent-free in their heads.

    He’s been out of office for 4½ months now, and they just can’t stop writing about him and talking about him and thinking about him.

    The Dana in Kentucky (78a597)

  58. Bill Bennett tells Fox News viewers ‘Delta Force’ shuld be used to ‘go into Russia and take out those hackers.’

    Helluva gamble with other people’s lives and assets, Billy Boy.

    William J. Bennett, author of ”The Book of Virtues” and one of the nation’s most relentless moral crusaders, is a high-rolling gambler who has lost more than $8 million at casinos. Once a hypocritical conservative idiot; always a hypocritical conservative idiot.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  59. No, but also irrelevant. Who then is the leader if not Trump? I think Liz Cheney might have an opinion.

    And each time she expresses it, she loses power and grows increasingly irrelevant.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  60. “You should read the report. The clearing of the area became “forcible” after the police were attacked by the rioters.”

    At approximately 6:16 p.m., contrary to the operational plan and before the USPP gave the first dispersal warning, the Secret Service entered H Street from Madison Place. The USPP civil disturbance unit commanders told us that the Secret Service met significant resistance from the crowd and protesters threw water bottles and eggs at the officers.

    A USPP civil disturbance commander told us and USPP video we reviewed showed that the Secret Service’s early deployment drew additional protesters to the east end of H Street, increasing tensions between law enforcement and the protesters.

    The USPP civil disturbance unit commander, the USPP operations commander, and the USPP incident commander all told us that the Secret Service lieutenant later apologized for the early entry onto H Street during the operation but did not explain why it occurred.

    It became forcible when the Secret Service deployed without notice or warning.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  61. He’s been out of office for 4½ months now, and they just can’t stop writing about him and talking about him and thinking about him.

    Given that Trump is the leading Republican candidate for President in 2024, and has deep support among the rank and file of the Republican party, why should he be ignored?

    “The numbers fly in the face of any predictions that Donald Trump’s political future is in decline. By a substantial majority, Republicans: (1) believe the election was stolen from him, (2) want Trump to run again, and (3), if they can’t vote for Trump, prefer someone who agrees with him,” said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. It became forcible when the Secret Service deployed without notice or warning.

    LOL

    Even after you quote it, it appears as though you didn’t read it.

    BuDuh (3f85c8)

  63. Was W Bush the leader of the Republican party from 2008-2016?

    Hoi Polloi (b28058) — 6/11/2021 @ 1:24 pm

    W had the good sense and decency to follow the unwritten rule about ex-Presidents departing gracefully and keeping a low profile.

    Not Trump. The butthurt baboon skipped the Inauguration, went to Florida, and hasn’t stopped whining since.

    norcal (baad4b)

  64. Oh my. It looks like your quote, Dave, has some serious omissions.

    Why is that?

    BuDuh (2672a0)

  65. It’s called living rent-free in their heads.

    More like a MRSA boil on America’s butt.

    nk (1d9030)

  66. “Oh my. It looks like your quote, Dave, has some serious omissions.

    Why is that?”

    I’m not playing guessing games, BuDuh, what did I omit?

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  67. In the report’s timeline, prior to the edited quote that Dave went with, there is this statement:

    In the early evening of June 1, acts of violence directed toward law enforcement increased as the crowd size grew, as they had May 29 through 31. According to USPP radio logs, intelligence reports, photographs, and videos, protesters breached the bike-rack fencing and entered the secured area, climbed on top ofthe burned-out comfort station, and threw projectiles like rocks, water bottles, and eggs at law enforcement officers (see Figures 6 and 7).

    Because of the increased unrest and intelligence reports the USPP received of armed individuals in the crowd including reports of people wearing ballistic vests and canying baseball bats the USPP incident commander told us that he and the Secret Service UD WHB deputy chief decided to clear Lafayette Park and the surrounding areas by deploying USPP and ACPD officers trained in advanced civil disturbance tactics.

    Again, the report is consistent about who was “forcibly” doing what, as well as the chronology of when the “forcible” actions began.

    Barricades were being breached, officers were being attacked, and reports of armed rioters were coming in. All this was before the Secret Service rounded the corner. Well before if you are honest enough to accept that this was the third day of violent.civil unrest next to the Whitehouse.

    BuDuh (48e285)

  68. What page of the report did your quote come from, Dave?

    It is possible that your quote came from a source other than the full report. If so I do apologize for pinning it on you the actions of someone else

    BuDuh (48e285)

  69. “Again, the report is consistent about who was “forcibly” doing what, as well as the chronology of when the “forcible” actions began.”

    Were the protesters that were engaged by the Secret Service aware that “Barricades were being breached, officers were being attacked, and reports of armed rioters were coming in.”? Were they aware that the park was to cleared? The report says that protesters “appeared surprised and confused.”

    It’s not a question of whether the park clearing was necessary. To the protesters, it appeared heavy handed and capricious, because of failures on the part of USPP and other agencies present.

    “if you are honest enough”

    Keep this up and I’m not going to bother to seriously debate you any more.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  70. A guy who keeps winning pots with a pair of deuces over jokers is hard to beat. Putin plays a better game than Biden.

    Doyle Lonnegan was an Irish-Catholic, too.

    “He cheats.” – Johnny Hooker [Robert Redford] ‘The Sting’ 1973

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw1dPsf0JgE

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  71. I used poor judgment with that “honest enough” comment. I apologize and will make sure this remains very civil, Dave.

    BuDuh (db341e)

  72. What was the source of your quote at 4:01, Dave?

    As far as what the protesters were aware of, they were certainly aware that officers were moving towards them and instructing them to disperse. Some of the surprised and confused ran away and others decided to fight with the police. Just like they had done for the two previous nights.

    No whether or not the surprised and confused fighting group was coordinating with the barricade crashing, rock and egg throwing group is a mystery to me so I can only hazard a guess.

    BuDuh (022509)

  73. “What page of the report did your quote come from, Dave?”

    Page 15, about half way down. As I looked at it again, I noticed it followed immediately after the section discussing AG Barr’s appearance, and I saw these timestamps:

    6:10 Barr shows up asking why the crowd hasn’t been cleared yet.
    6:16 Secret Service jumps the gun and enters the park.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  74. The Secret Service did the right thing to take the initiative. Just hunkering down and taking the slings and arrows as they came, until the “protesters” ran out of pot and started pining for their porn stashes on their computers in the privacy of their moms’ basements, is no kind of defensive or law enforcement strategy.

    nk (1d9030)

  75. That is the same page that I looked at. I bolded the missing quote:

    At approximately 6:16 p.m., contrary to the operational plan and before the USPP gave the first dispersal warning, the Secret Service entered H Street from Madison Place. The USPP civil disturbance unit commanders told us that the Secret Service met significant resistance from the crowd and protesters threw water bottles and eggs at the officers.

    USPP video we reviewed confirmed this account and showed the Secret Service responding by deploying pepper spray. The Secret Service retreated closer to the construction fence on H Street in front of Madison Place and ultimately cleared and secured the area in front of the gate onto H Street from Madison Place (see Figure 8).

    A USPP civil disturbance commander told us and USPP video we reviewed showed that the Secret Service’s early deployment drew additional protesters to the east end of H Street, increasing tensions between law enforcement and the protesters.

    The USPP and ACPD civil disturbance unit commanders told us they were surprised when they saw the Secret Service enter H Street before the USPP had given any dispersal warning, but they said they did not follow the Secret Service onto H Street at that time.

    The USPP civil disturbance unit commander, the USPP operations commander, and the USPP incident commander all told us that the Secret Service lieutenant later apologized for the early entry onto H Street during the operation but did not explain why it occurred. The USPP officers we interviewed did not know why the Secret Service entered H Street before the USPP gave the first dispersal warning. Some speculated it occurred because of miscommunication between a Secret Service supervisor and his officers near the gate area. Others guessed it could have occurred because the USPP and the Secret Service did not have a shared radio channel and had no way of intercepting and resolving conflicting radio communications. The USPP acting chief of police, USPP incident commander, and USPP operations commander all told us they had no reason to believe that the Attorney General’s visit to the park at 6: 10 p.m. influenced the Secret Service’s early deployment.

    The first bolded quote makes it clear that the Secret Service “retreated.” Sounds like they were overwhelmed by the peaceful crowd.

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  76. 6:16 Secret Service jumps the gun and enters the park.

    This totally discounts the rioters that jumped the gun prior to the Secret Service.

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  77. “This totally discounts the rioters that jumped the gun prior to the Secret Service.”

    Most of the people there aren’t rioters. I know this is a joke on the right, but that doesn’t make it less true. If most of the crowd were rioters, you’d have something more like the capital riot, where the police are totally overwhelmed and pushed back.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  78. Three nights of violence suggests a different crowd shows up that you pretend doesn’t exist.

    BTW, did you figure out why your quote was missing so much?

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  79. If most of the crowd were rioters, you’d have something more like the capital riot,

    What was the crowd size at Trump’s rally? How many were rioters that pushed past barricades and assaulted police?

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  80. Thank you for your post at 906pm BuDuh. I was about to do the same.

    Unreal that some will try and pretend otherwise to ignore reality.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  81. “What was the crowd size at Trump’s rally? How many were rioters that pushed past barricades and assaulted police?”

    The organizers projected 30,000 people.

    Here’s a narrative of the capitol attack: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/01/25/among-the-insurrectionists

    In it the author says “Before Trump had even finished his speech, approximately eight thousand people started moving up the Mall.” (It’s a good article, I recommend giving it a read).

    Around 500 people have been charged in connection with the riots.

    In comparison, according to this press release, 156 people were charged in DC protests from May to November of 2020.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  82. The organizers projected 30,000 people.

    100,000 actually started out, but 70,000 of them reached Tacoma before they realized they were supposed to be at “the other Washington”.

    nk (1d9030)

  83. President Plagiarist to duck plans to do joint presser w/Vlad.

    Old.
    Weak.
    Cowardly.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  84. The IG Lafayette Square report conclusion that “the evidence we obtained did not support a finding that the USPP (United States Park Police) cleared the park to allow the President to survey the damage and walk to St. John’s Church” was contrary to the idea that Trump ordered the crowd dispersed for his photo op. But it did not rule it out.

    The report indicates the USPP decided the crowd was a threat to the Park area and the Park Police, so it should be cleared to allow a contractor to install security fencing. The process was delayed and the presence of security from multiple agencies (some of whom missed/had not been briefed) contributed to a chaotic response.

    But the unaddressed issues in the report are the actions by the Secret Service and the influence (if any) by AG Bill Barr, who apparently knew in advance about the Park Police decision to clear the area and also knew about Trump’s decision to hold a photo op in the Park before the Park was cleared. We don’t know about their knowledge or decisions because they weren’t interviewed for the report. Thus, we don’t know what Barr/Trump knew or if they expressed a desire to have the Park cleared that led the Secret Service to act.

    DRJ (03cb91)

  85. The report indicates the USPP decided the crowd was a threat to the Park area and the Park Police,

    Thank you for pointing that out.

    Peaceful protesters should never be a threat to Police.

    BuDuh (7bca93)


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