Patterico's Pontifications

So I was going to do a six-degrees of separation from you-know-who but opted not to lest I offend anyone… but still, Lindell pushed the belief that Trump will be back in office as recently as last month:

In late May, MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell appeared on Steve Bannon’s podcast, “War Room,” and said: “Donald Trump, I believe, will be back in by the end of August.” He also said that eventually even liberals such as Rachel Maddow would admit that the election was stolen. Lindell’s bizarre theory is that all Team Trump needs is a shred of proof of election fraud to overturn the entire election. Trump and others are watching the Republican-backed audit in Arizona because they believe in a “domino theory” — if Arizona ballots can be proven to be fraudulent, election results in other battleground states that President Joe Biden won can also be overturned.

Dana (fd537d) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:32 am

I heard that (I think on television, not personally) about the iron objects sticking to the arm which was vaccinated but not the other. This was supposed to prove that a magnet (read bio chip even though that’s not true for cats and dogs) had been injected.

The explanation has to do with the skin surface on the side that was injected being different – from the other one. There’s more surface tension when skin gets red or something like that.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:40 am

In late May, MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell appeared on Steve Bannon’s podcast, “War Room,” and said: “Donald Trump, I believe, will be back in by the end of August.”

This is 2021’s version of “the impeachment of Donald Trump and Mike Pence will somehow lead to Hillary Clinton taking her rightful place as President.” Who was it that floated this theory, Sally Kohn perhaps? She and Mr. Lindell would make a great point-counterpoint show (though, I confess, I absolutely would not watch it).

JVW (ee64e4) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:45 am

It was the same news story as reported the magnet claim that gave the (somewhat unclear) debunking explanation for why iron might be harder to fall off the vaccinated arm.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:46 am

the crazies were so into the lab leak stuffy stuff we had to ban it

JF (e1156d) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:47 am

listen to the experts

follow the science

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9667447/Lindsey-Graham-accuses-scientists-wrote-Lancet-letter-trying-destroy-Trumps-credibility.html

JF (e1156d) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:50 am

I updated the post with Rep. Peter Meijer’s response to the nutty doctor’s claims. Heh.

Dana (fd537d) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:56 am

JF, do you have a non-tabloid link? I’d rather not have google start feeding me male enh*ncement ads or suggestions to articles about Prince Charles being an alien.

Nic (896fdf) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:04 am

The only thing that will stick to your forehead that normally shouldn’t is a MLB baseball.

Hoi Polloi (093fb9) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:22 am

@8 sorry wapo seems too busy revising their fact checks to get around to the story

maybe you’re the discriminating type that won’t countenance bullsh*t unless you have to pay for it

JF (e1156d) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:24 am

There is a substance that’s causing forks and keys to the stick to the skin of anti-vaxxers. It’s called sweat.

BTW, when Lindsey Graham is right, he’s right. The letter to Lancet, signed by a couple dozen scientists, has serious problems, starting with a conflict of interest. This was covered by Nicholas Wade in his seminal piece and in the latest Vanity Fair. Wade:

It later turned out that the Lancet letter had been organized and drafted by Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance of New York. Dr. Daszak’s organization funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. If the SARS2 virus had indeed escaped from research he funded, Dr. Daszak would be potentially culpable. This acute conflict of interest was not declared to the Lancet’s readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded, “We declare no competing interests.”

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:37 am

@10 I mean, any reputable source would be fine. If your only thought of an alternative is wapo, that’s on you.

Nic (896fdf) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:38 am

@11 Thank you, Paul.

Nic (896fdf) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:40 am

Here is the Bill that was being discussed at the hearing in case anyone wants to talk about more than the low hanging fruit strawman that is making headlines:

https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_134/bills/hb248/PHC/02/hb248_02_PHC?format=pdf

Of course it is worrisome that an inconsequential nutball, who has been tied to a nutcase, read reports of magnetic skin. The world should probably stop until we sort out that one person’s issues.

BuDuh (f5dce5) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:42 am

Explains why conservative heads and the compasses of their body politick keep spinning.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:18 pm

This fruit is on the ground and rotting. I can’t even.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:20 pm

I had the vaccine and now am craving shave ice in the hot NM summer. Coincidence? I think not!

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:22 pm

Do the spoons bend when they’re on your forehead? Asking for my friend Uri.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:26 pm

@17. A magnetic personality, too.

Take a walk through the desert and pick up some of those iron meteorites.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:42 pm

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:37 am

There is a substance that’s causing forks and keys to the stick to the skin of anti-vaxxers. It’s called sweat.

No, it was supposedly sticking to the skin of people who had been vaxxed. Anti-vaxxers were citing it as a reason not to get the vaccination. (I don’t know, maybe some people said that they’d been vaxxed and here’s why other people shouldn’t be)

There is apparently a variant version in which stainless steel cutlery sticks better to the vaccinated arm than the unvaccinated one. But there’s often redness or swelling there, especially after the second shot. And something sticky, or even just water, could have been applied too.

BTW, when Lindsey Graham is right, he’s right.

Graham put a probably non-existent motive (harming Trump’s reputation) first and covering for themselves only second.

It is probable Lindsey Graham believes only the second motive, but included the first that what he wanted circulated would be able to go along for the ride. (the anti-Trump motive may have come along later in 2020, among other people)

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:46 pm

Incidentally, not only have there been other lab escapes from time to time, but this may be the second worldwide pandemic to emerge from a lab. (although in that case there is no evidence of bioengineering – you can have alab escape of a naturally arising virus)

The other one was the 1977 flu epidemic (which was kind of mild)

https://armscontrolcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Escaped-Viruses-final-2-17-14-copy.pdf

Only since 2009-2010 did major papers begin to state directly the 1977 emergence of H1N1 influenza was a laboratory related release: “The most famous case of a released laboratory strain is the re-emergent H1N1 influenza A virus which was first observed in China in May of 1977 and in Russia shortly thereafter.” The paper made this statement in part because the continued “agnostic” approach to the 1977 reemergence introduced unacceptable errors in calculating the genomic divergence dates for influenza virus strains.

It was first reported in China, and later on the Soviet Union, but it probably escaped from a Russian lab in Siberia – China was just beginning to get re-started after the Cultural Revolution and I don’t know that somewhere they would have kept a flu sample safe all those years, and it is the country where it didn’t originate that would be more likely to report it.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0011184

The most famous case of a released laboratory strain is the re-emergent H1N1 influenza A virus which was first observed in China in May of 1977 and in Russia shortly thereafter [3], [4]. This outbreak marked the return of a seasonal H1N1 human influenza virus after a nearly 20-year absence following its displacement during the 1957 H2N2 pandemic. Scientists quickly realized that something was unusual about this re-emergent H1N1 strain; it was genetically similar, though not identical, to an H1N1 isolate from 1950 [5], [6]. Initially it was suggested that this virus could have lain dormant or evolved slowly in non-human hosts for decades, but it is now generally assumed that the virus was kept frozen in a yet unidentified laboratory.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:56 pm

More low hanging fruit
https://www.doioig.gov/site-page/statement-inspector-general-mark-lee-greenblatt-regarding-special-review-report-review-us

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:05 pm

OT-Memo to Vlad:

Set up a long, long red carpet-norailings to grasp- for your meeting w/Squinty McStumblebum.

He can barely shuffle.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:12 pm

It was after this became accepted and also after Ron Fouchier, a Dutch scientist who had receved grant money from Fauci, had, by passing it ten times through ferrets, created, in 2011, a mutant form of bird flu H5N1 that he said could infect humans through “aerosols or respiratory droplets” and said this proved avian flu posed a risk pf becoming pandemic in humans – it was after this that Marc Lipsitch director (at least by now) of Center for Communicable Diseases at the Harvard School of Public Health started to organize what became known as the Cambridge Working Group to try to get all this gain-of0function research stopped.

There was soon a New York Times editorial (January 8, 2012)

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/opinion/sunday/an-engineered-doomsday.html

…We nearly always champion unfettered scientific research and open publication of the results. In this case it looks like the research should never have been undertaken because the potential harm is so catastrophic and the potential benefits from studying the virus so speculative.

Unless the scientific community and health officials can provide more persuasive justifications than they have so far, the new virus, which is in the Netherlands, ought to be destroyed…

….In the future, it is imperative that any such experiments be rigorously analyzed for potential dangers — preferably through an international review mechanism, but also by governmental funding agencies — before they are undertaken, not after the fact as is happening in this case.

The most frightening research was done by scientists at the Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam, who sought to discover how likely it is that the “bird flu” virus, designated A(H5N1), might mutate from a form that seldom infects or spreads among humans into a form highly transmissible by coughing or sneezing. Thus far the virus has infected close to 600 humans and killed more than half of them, a fatality rate that far exceeds the 2 percent rate in the 1918 influenza pandemic that killed as many as 100 million people.

….These findings led to an unprecedented request from an American federal advisory board that the researchers and the two scientific journals that plan to publish the studies omit any details that might help terrorists figure out how to unleash a devastating pandemic. That presumably includes details on how the engineered virus was made and details on the precise mutations that allowed it to go airborne.

Later, March 4:

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/opinion/sunday/the-truth-about-the-doomsday-virus.html

Now Ron Fouchier, the Dutch scientist who led the key research team, is saying that his findings, which remain confidential, were misconstrued by the press.

He says that the virus did not spread easily and was not lethal when transmitted from one ferret to another by coughing or sneezing, and that it became highly lethal only when big doses were injected into the animals’ windpipes.

That is hard to square with his original assertions…Dr. Fouchier’s new claims are only the latest bizarre twist in a global health debate that badly needs an objective, independent arbiter. The public needs to know whether this virus is a potentially big killer, and if so, how it should be contained. It needs to know what details can be published without giving terrorists a recipe for a biological weapon. And it needs to know that a mechanism will be put in place to assess all the risks and benefits of such research before it is approved — not after a new virus has been created.
The debate became public after a federal advisory board, the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity, recommended that papers prepared by Dr. Fouchier’s group and researchers doing similar work at the University of Wisconsin-Madison be published only after omitting details that might help terrorists. That drew charges of censorship from some scientists, and others warned that restricting the information would make it harder to track and combat an outbreak of a similar strain.

The World Health Organization convened a closed meeting of 22 experts last month, which concluded that the research should eventually be published in full. The group was dominated by participants with a clear stake in publication — including the researchers who made the viruses, the journals that want to publish their papers in full, and developing countries that want access to full details in exchange for having contributed the viruses that were studied.

Now this country’s National Institutes of Health, which financed the research and has its own reputation on the line, is asking the biosecurity advisory board to reconsider its call to redact details before publication…

So there are people who want this kind of research to go on.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:20 pm

Meanwhile, Putin bans opposition party ahead of summit. Why is Biden still going? They invade their neighbors, hack our critical systems, the jail anyone who speaks out, and President Biden doesn’t react. Except maybe ceding our Arctic oil to a man who LIKES global warming.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:23 pm

@24: Stu Redman could not be reached for comment.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:24 pm

@22 So according to the IG report, the protestors wasn’t cleared from Lafayette square because Trump wanted a photo-op? It was because the park agency had already made plans to clear the area to put up new fencing in the aftermath of a riot?

That talking point didn’t age well…

whembly (6c6692) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:28 pm

‘Why is Biden still going?’

Why, indeed.

“Pay attention, Joe.” – First Lady Jill Biden, RAF Mildenhall, UK, 6/9/21

O.M.G.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:34 pm

@22 from the report:

We also found weaknesses with the operation to clear the park, including the U.S. Secret Service’s deployment before the USPP had begun its dispersal warnings

Why was the Secret Service involved in the operation to clear the park?

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:38 pm

Gohmert’s fruit always hangs low, and today is no exception.

ORBITS: Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) asks whether the Forest Service or the BLM can alter the orbit of the moon or the Earth in order to fight climate change during a House Natural Resources hearing.

I would’ve said that Covid Brain knocked a few bolts loose, but he’s been uttering nonsense long before the pandemic.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:38 pm

@22 So according to the IG report, the protestors wasn’t cleared from Lafayette square because Trump wanted a photo-op? It was because the park agency had already made plans to clear the area to put up new fencing in the aftermath of a riot?

That talking point didn’t age well…

whembly (6c6692) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:28 pm

No it did not. Which guarantees the media doesn’t give the IG report much if any play.

Hoi Polloi (093fb9) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:40 pm

@25. Don’t be surprised if Squinty McStumblebum reaches for a bonding reference with Liz about her Daddy’s triumph over stuttering just like he did when he meets her for tea. Not unlike Carter referencing ‘Montezuma’s Revenge’ to President Jose Lopez Portillo back in ’79 when he visited Mexico.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:45 pm

“Which guarantees the media doesn’t give the IG report much if any play.”

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/09/1004832399/watchdog-report-says-police-did-not-clear-protesters-to-make-way-for-trump-last-

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/police-clear-lafayette-park-area-trump-hold-bible/story?id=78171712

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:45 pm

@27, yeah seems like all the claims about that were off. Trump didn’t order it. There was tear gas. What a horrible mess.

Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:53 pm

@30. Gohmert surely knows the orbit of Luna is already changing.

And yes, call him ‘Shirley’:

‘Currently, the Moon’s is slowly drifting away from the Earth, at a rate of about 1 to 2 cm per year. This is directly related to the fact that here on Earth, the day’s are getting longer – by a rate of 1/500th of a second every century. In fact, astronomers have estimated that roughly 620 million years ago, a day was only 21 hours long [oops goes the math, Biblethumpers!], and the Moon was between 6,200 – 12,400 km closer.

Now, the days are 24 hours long and getting longer, and the Moon is already at a average distance of 384,400 km. Eventually, the Earth and the Moon will be tidally locked to each other, so the same side of the Earth will always face the Moon, just like the same side of the Moon always presents the same face to the Earth. But this won’t happen for billions of years from now.’ – source, https://www.universetoday.com/48792/moon-orbit/

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:55 pm

Breaking-
Company behind Keystone XL pipeline pulls plug on long-controversial project

What will the 23 state AGs suing the Biden Administration over the pipeline do now? Focus on their own states?

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2021 @ 2:55 pm

Why was the Secret Service involved in the operation to clear the park?

Because Lafayette Park is across the street from the White House and is part of the WH security zone.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:00 pm

Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:53 pm

@27, yeah seems like all the claims about that were off. Trump didn’t order it. There was tear gas. What a horrible mess.

Ivanka suggested that Trump go to the church under the assumption that the park was already cleared or being cleared. When Bill Barr discovered that it hadn’t happened, he ordered it accelerated. Something like that.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:16 pm

I’m sorry, Dana and comrades! You are all wrong! You may hear the lady say that the vaccine makes you magnetic, but that’s because you don’t have the Q-decoder ring.

What she really is saying is that the space laser-armed storm trooper of Emperor Urethane, Supreme Lord of the Eighth Dimension, under the command of his daughter Polly, are about to invade Earth and make all of us their captive love slaves. Her first.

Be warned!

nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:21 pm

Why was the Secret Service involved in the operation to clear the park?

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:38 pm

Your answer is in the report:

https://www.doioig.gov/sites/doioig.gov/files/SpecialReview_USPPActionsAtLafayettePark_Public_0.pdf

BuDuh (c6ca2f) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:26 pm

“Because Lafayette Park is across the street from the White House and is part of the WH security zone.”

Lafayette park was not part of the the Secret Service’s security zone until after the fence was erected.

“Your answer is in the report:”

No it’s not. The report only addresses the USPP.

I’ll give a possible answer: They were there because Trump was coming and they wanted to expedite the previously planned park clearing.

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:43 pm

No it’s not. The report only addresses the USPP.

Incorrect.

They were there because Trump was coming and they wanted to expedite the previously planned park clearing.

Also incorrect.

Maybe you digested a 40 page report in under 20 min while also composing your response, but I am leery.

BuDuh (057233) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:48 pm

“Maybe you digested a 40 page report in under 20 min while also composing your response, but I am leery.”

I thought your link was the same one that steveg provided (the urls are similar). After a look at the long report, I agree that you are correct.

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 4:04 pm

Poor trump always held accountable for what the trump administration did to him. poor trump and poor trump’s supporters who absolutely gotta defend Trump even though it’s basically impossible.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 4:06 pm

Poor trump always held accountable for what the trump administration did to him. poor trump and poor trump’s supporters who absolutely gotta defend Trump even though it’s basically impossible.

?

BuDuh (d20046) — 6/9/2021 @ 4:14 pm

poor trump

always a victim

in this case, a victim of the actions of trump’s administration

so sad

and poor trump fans

because who wants to be a trump fan at this point?

i guess you do

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 4:40 pm

Still doesn’t make any sense. Maybe there is a particular comment here that you can quote, Dustin?

BuDuh (3f0a77) — 6/9/2021 @ 4:54 pm

“poor trump

always a victim….”

I was hoping for a Haiku….or some Seuss…..I’m not good at Seuss.

AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/9/2021 @ 4:59 pm

biden voters shocked
surprised as they take up chute
gooder and harder

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:13 pm

This seems like low hanging fruit:

Biden claimed that when he was elected as vice president with President Barack Obama, the Joint Chiefs of Staff told them that global warming was the greatest threat to the United States.

“The military sat us down and let us know what the greatest threats facing America were, the greatest physical threats,” Biden recalled. “This is not a joke. You know what the joint chiefs told us the greatest threat facing America was? Global warming.”

The president spoke to American troops stationed at the Royal Air Force Mildenhall base prior to his meeting with world leaders at the G7 summit of world leaders in Cornwall.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/06/09/joe-biden-not-a-joke-global-warming-the-greatest-threat-facing-america/

It’s Breitbart, so maybe Joe didn’t say what they quoted; reliable sourcing and all that.

I wonder if the Tenpenney equivalent Climate nutcases every received the same Twitter notoriety with all their incorrect doom and gloom arm waiving in front of local, state, and federal hearings?

BuDuh (ee1662) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:14 pm

Yeah I was going to do that but then I realized I didn’t care enough to bother.

People say I’m condescending (that means I talk down to people).

Still doesn’t make any sense

OK that’s nice. I think the part you don’t understand is that any reasonable person is not interested in debate with a trump fan at this point, because … you know, the reasonable thing.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:15 pm

biden voters shocked
surprised as they take up chute
gooder and harder

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:13 pm

LOL and fair. biden is terrible, divisive, and also he is extremely relevant since he’s the damn president and everything is screwed up. by biden’s own campaign, what happens on a president’s watch is the president’s responsibility. And a lot of bad things seem to be happening today.

We can all discuss Biden productively. Trump is only a weapon against the GOP, kinda like alcohol to an alcoholic. The GOP’s got no chance of growing up if we keep the subject Trump.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:19 pm

@Dustin: This isn’t about defending Trump (or in this case Barr!).

This is about the prevailing narrative at the time simply being wrong, and it took over a year to get that answer.

whembly (63cfde) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:19 pm

People say I’m condescending (that means I talk down to people)

I’ve never picked up that vibe. In our past interactions you have always thoughtfully explained you comments.

This particular “trump, Trump!, TRUMP!!!” comment of yours is more of the Hulk-Smash variety and I cannot figure out what prompted it.

BuDuh (0f45a6) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:24 pm

“This is about the prevailing narrative at the time simply being wrong, and it took over a year to get that answer.”

It’s not that simple.

The USPP also claimed that no tear gas was use, but it was, just not by them. They also claimed that they gave orders to disperse, but admit now that a lot of people didn’t hear it. They weren’t credible. The report also doesn’t make Trump or his administration more credible.

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:31 pm

This isn’t about defending Trump

Again, don’t care about debating this crap with people who won’t even admit what they are doing. As I said above, it’s pathetic and sad. there is no reasoning here.

(or in this case Barr!).

Trump you mean. Admit you are defending Trump. The executive branch of the federal government when Trump was president is Trump’s responsibility. Trump literally walked down the street after the world watched him gas people, and he did it for the lamest photo op ever. The ensign that printed that huge MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner in 2003 is redeemed.

This is about the prevailing narrative at the time simply being wrong,

The prevailing narrative that Trump was garbage which are you defending Trump from.

It is not worth a reasonable person’s time to try to discuss this. Trump defenders do not care about truth, reason, or really America or the GOP. They just don’t care. They can’t even bring themselves to say “I am defending Trump.” It’s a 2+2=5 thing. It’s tedious and sad.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:33 pm

The USPP also claimed that no tear gas was use, bu [bla bla blah who cares]

hey thulu, what does US stand for in that acronym?

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:38 pm

#29
Answeris found if you hit the link to the full report at the bottom of the page:

On the morning of June 1, the Secret Service procured antiscale fencing to establish a more secure perimeter around Lafayette Park that was to be delivered and installed that same day. The USPP, in coordination with the Secret Service, determined that it was necessary to clear protesters from the area in and around the park to enable the contractor’s employees to safely install the fence. The USPP planned to implement the operation as soon as the fencing materials and sufficient law enforcement officers arrived at the park. Six other law enforcement agencies assisted the USPP and the Secret Service in the operation to clear and secure areas near the park.

The operation began at 6:23 p.m. and was completed by 6:50 p.m. Shortly thereafter, at 7:01 p.m., President Trump walked from the White House through Lafayette Park to St. John’s Church. At 7:30 p.m., the contractor began assembling and installing the antiscale fence and completed the work by approximately 12:30 a.m. on June 2.

We found that the USPP had the authority and discretion to clear Lafayette Park and the surrounding areas on June 1. The evidence we obtained did not support a finding that the USPP cleared the park to allow the President to survey the damage and walk to St. John’s Church. Instead, the evidence we reviewed showed that the USPP cleared the park to allow the contractor to safely install the antiscale fencing in response to destruction of property and injury to officers occurring on May 30 and 31. Further, the evidence showed that the USPP did not know about the President’s potential movement until mid- to late afternoon on June 1—hours after it had begun developing its operational plan and the fencing contractor had arrived in the park.

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:40 pm

53… That was just mean, whembly.

There are several other examples of the Democrat/media stenographer/former Republican/useful idiot fruit loop conspiracies that proved to be BIG effing lies that could also be used to bury and rub some noses in, but to what end.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:41 pm

“hey thulu, what does US stand for in that acronym?”

United States.

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:50 pm

Dustin
Your argument is with the IG findings.
“The evidence we obtained did not support a finding that the USPP cleared the park to allow the President to survey the damage and walk to St. John’s Church.”

#57 The parsing of words was a little fine on pepper balls vs tear gas but I’ve always assumed that was perhaps because they have different rules for escalations of force or rules of engagement that require precise definitions for non lethals
The USPP and other agencies taken 49 casualties over the past two days of protest, so the protestors got off easy with tear gas or pepper spray

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:54 pm

@56

This isn’t about defending Trump

Again, don’t care about debating this crap with people who won’t even admit what they are doing. As I said above, it’s pathetic and sad. there is no reasoning here.

Then, what the bloody hell am I doing homie? By the way, got the numbers for the LOTTO? Since, you’re all assured of my motives you must be a mind reader!

(or in this case Barr!).

Barr was roundly criticized by everyone during that photo op, to the point that many claimed it was him who ordered the crowd to disperse.

Trump you mean. Admit you are defending Trump. The executive branch of the federal government when Trump was president is Trump’s responsibility. Trump literally walked down the street after the world watched him gas people, and he did it for the lamest photo op ever. The ensign that printed that huge MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner in 2003 is redeemed.

I expressedly did NOT defend Trump here.

I’m pointing out that the media, and Trump’s critics got this one wrong, because ORANGE MAN BADZ!

You know what? Yes, that photo op was lame. You and I will agree there.

But, you also know what? You can’t see beyond your hatred for Trump about the fact that the media and his critics gets a lot of things wrong… and this is one of them. Just admit that in your own zeal to “get Trump” that you got this one wrong.

God dang it, I’ve said from DAY ONE, that the one aspect that drove me nuts about the Trump era is the willingness by media and Trump-critics to feel like they have to make up crap in order to criticize Trump. There’s no need for that as its totally easy to criticize crap that Trump legitimately did.

Here, for the folks in the back: I’M NOT DEFENDING TRUMP… THIS IS A CRITICISM OF THE MEDIA AND THE FALSE NARRATIVE OF THE TIME. Just because you believed it, because it “fits” with your belief that Trump is the worst, doesn’t mean you were right.

This is about the prevailing narrative at the time simply being wrong,

The prevailing narrative that Trump was garbage which are you defending Trump from.

It is not worth a reasonable person’s time to try to discuss this. Trump defenders do not care about truth, reason, or really America or the GOP. They just don’t care. They can’t even bring themselves to say “I am defending Trump.” It’s a 2+2=5 thing. It’s tedious and sad.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:33 pm

You obviously don’t care about the truth… you must believe the IG was lying their asses off.

whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:59 pm

“conspiracies that proved to be BIG effing lies that could also be used to bury and rub some noses in, but to what end.”

Follow along Haiku:

Lafayette park was cleared, and immediately afterwards Trump holds a photo op in front of a building he never enters, holding a book he’s never read.

Protesters claimed that tear gas was used, and that no order to disperse was given. These were both clearly true (there were videos and physical evidence) and both initially denied by the USPP. It was not unreasonable to believe that the USPP was lying about the reason for the park clearance. It certainly wouldn’t categorize as a BIG lie (like, for example, claiming the election was stolen)

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:00 pm

The USPP also claimed that no tear gas was use, but it was, just not by them.

Close.

They claimed that they never used it. The investigators backed that up and got an admission from local PD.

From the report:

We found no evidence that the USPP and the law enforcement entities operating under the unified command deployed CS gas during the clearing of Lafayette Park and H Street on June 1. Witnesses testified before the House Committee on Natural Resources that they could smell and feel “tear gas” during the operation to clear Lafayette Park. One witness testified and news
38
reports indicated that spent “tear gas” canisters were also found at the scene.
interviewed the witness—a DCNG major—he acknowledged the canisters could have been smoke and further stated that his USPP liaison officer told him the USPP deployed smoke on
H Street and did not use CS gas. In addition to this information and other documentary evidence, the USPP SWAT commander told us that the USPP SWAT team did not use the types of CS and OC canisters found at the scene and that USPP SWAT officers were not equipped with the launchers necessary to deploy these canisters. Furthermore, the USPP incident commander did not authorize CS gas for this operation, and thus, as the evidence showed, most USPP officers were not prepared for its use.
We determined, and the MPD confirmed, that the MPD used CS gas on 17th Street on June 1. As discussed above, the MPD was not a part of nor under the control or direction of the USPP’s and the Secret Service’s unified command structure.

What is the credibility conundrum? This seems like an evidence based report.

BuDuh (817dd9) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:09 pm

BuDuh, thank you for spelling this out.

Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:18 pm

We’ll see how quickly media that promoted this bullsh*t lie will explain how they came to fall in – lockstep – with the other Democrat sh*theel fabulists.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:25 pm

I apologize for the butchered cut and paste. I was having trouble getting a larger quote from pages 18-21:

At approximately 6:16 p.m., contrary to the operational plan and before the USPP gave the first dispersal warning, the Secret Service entered H Street from Madison Place. The USPP civil disturbance unit commanders told us that the Secret Service met significant resistance from the crowd and protesters threw water bottles and eggs at the officers. USPP video we reviewed confirmed this account and showed the Secret Service responding by deploying pepper spray. The Secret Service retreated closer to the construction fence on H Street

Contrary to the operational plan, the USPP and ACPD civil disturbance units deployed onto
H Street approximately 1 minute before the USPP incident commander completed the third
dispersal warning. USPP video evidence showed that after the second warning, a USPP civil
disturbance unit commander transmitted over his radio that the Secret Service and the civil
disturbance units were ready and waiting on the “go-ahead.” The USPP incident commander
responded that he would give the third warning and then head to their location in a couple of
18
As the USPP incident commander began the third dispersal warning, the USPP operations commander transmitted over his radio that the “[civil disturbance units] are deployed.” A USPP civil disturbance unit commander told us he did not know that the civil disturbance units left before the USPP incident commander finished the third warning and admitted that he could not hear the warnings because of his helmet and earpiece. USPP civil disturbance unit commanders could not tell us who issued the order to deploy onto H Street from Madison Place before the USPP incident commander had completed the third dispersal warning, and we were unable to determine who issued the order. An ACPD civil disturbance unit commander said, “It was so loud . . . I just kinda watched the people in front of me. When they started moving, that’s when I went.”
USPP and open-source video evidence we reviewed showed that as the USPP and ACPD civil disturbance units entered H Street, protesters appeared surprised and confused; most protesters ran from the area as the officers advanced. USPP officers reported that some protesters fought with the officers during the operation by grabbing their shields, punching them, and throwing water bottles and other objects at them. The video evidence from the USPP observation post confirmed these reports.

18 The radio channel used by the USPP on June 1 was not recorded. (We are examining this issue in a separate review.) We relied instead on video taken by the USPP, some of which includes audio of the radio transmissions.
minutes.
over here” and that the Secret Service was already “out there.” The USPP incident commander told us he could not recall whether he planned to order the civil disturbance units to deploy over the radio or if he intended to walk to their location and issue the order. He told us the plan was “thrown off a little bit” when the Secret Service deployed early.
The USPP civil disturbance unit commander replied that it was getting “a little hairy
17

The USPP and ACPD civil disturbance units continued to move west down H Street using various police tactics (see Figure 8). Officers said they gave repeated oral commands to the protesters, rushed as a line toward protesters that had not cleared the area, and pushed protesters with the flat front of their short shields. As the USPP and ACPD civil disturbance units continued west down H Street, other units led by the Secret Service secured the already cleared intersections at Vermont Avenue, Madison Place, and H Street (see Figure 8). The Horse Mounted Patrol unit, the USPP, and the DCNG followed the USPP and ACPD units west on H Street and assisted in securing the intersections at 16th Street, Connecticut Avenue, and 17th Street.
According to USPP Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) officers’ reports and USPP and open-source video evidence we reviewed, USPP SWAT officers embedded within the civil disturbance units on H Street deployed pepper ball rounds, stinger ball grenades without irritant, and white smoke without irritant19 after protesters physically attacked officers; threw rocks, fireworks, and other projectiles at law enforcement; or did not comply with the dispersal order. The operation to clear Lafayette Park and the surrounding areas took approximately 20 minutes from initial deployment and was completed by 6:50 p.m.

Now imagine this is the testimony, backed by the evidence, of the events surrounding the January 6th riot. Would there still be accusations that law enforcement was lying?

Crazy people cannot go around attacking cops with zero repercussions.

BuDuh (9bc4d9) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:40 pm

“They claimed that they never used it. The investigators backed that up and got an admission from local PD.”

This is a distinction without a difference. Until now, all that was known was that tear gas was definitely used, and that everybody was denying that they used it. In fact:

“No tear gas was used,” White House spokeswoman Kayleigh McEnany “No one was tear-gassed. … There’s been a lot of misreporting.”

“What is the credibility conundrum? This seems like an evidence based report.”

Here’s the ultimate credibility question: Do you believe the leaders of the USPP when they say they weren’t pressured to clear the park for Trump. They had a plan before they knew he was coming, but did things change when they found out? Hanlon’s Razor tells me that they’re probably telling the truth.

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:42 pm

Do you believe the leaders of the USPP when they say they weren’t pressured to clear the park for Trump.

Yes.

Additionally, If MPD(the only agency to use tear gas and be deceptive about it) had any proof that Trump ordered the park cleared Occam’s Razor tells me that they would thrown him under the bus.

BuDuh (57b72d) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:47 pm

How many law enforcement officers had fireworks shot at them on January 6th?

The peaceful protesters at Lafayette Park seemed to be better armed.

BuDuh (57b72d) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:55 pm

“The peaceful protesters at Lafayette Park seemed to be better armed.”

As of 10 p.m. Tuesday, District leaders say the six arrested were charged for offenses that include: carrying a pistol and carrying a rifle without a license, possessing a high capacity feeding device, carrying unregistered ammunition, an unregistered firearm, driving an unauthorized van without a permit, simple assault, possession of a prohibited weapon (taser) and possessing illegal fireworks.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/several-arrested-on-gun-charges-as-pro-trump-rallies-begin-in-dc

I disagree.

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:05 pm

So it’s good to know that Trump didn’t order Lafayette Square cleared so he could have his photo-op.
However, he still crossed the street, stood in front a church that he hardly ever attended, used the Holy Bible–a book that he scarcely reads and knows little about–as a political prop, handling it like some strange foreign object, while engaging in a photo-op to communicate, uh, something, with a very stern face. It was still a ridiculous and stupid PR stunt, enough so that one of the generals who strode along with the POTUS felt guilty enough to apologize.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:09 pm

Seems like a bunch of possession charges, Dave. Any of that stuff get used? Did the firearms owners resist arrest?

BuDuh (e7b1f6) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:11 pm

You obviously don’t care about the truth… you must believe the IG was lying their asses off.

whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:59 pm

LOL

Actually, I don’t care about this. It would be a tedious waste of time to discuss.

I don’t vouch for or criticize whatever report you are so concerned about. Because it doesn’t matter whether this or that part of Trump’s administration did the terrible thing as Trump was literally present and staging his embarassing photo op. Anyone trying to say Trump is the victim of this event is so far beyond reality it is sad. seriously. It is just sad.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:11 pm

It was still a ridiculous and stupid PR stunt,

I agree.

BuDuh (e7b1f6) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:12 pm

The peaceful protesters at Lafayette Park seemed to be better armed.

First, what Davethulhu said. Second, going by the arrest blotter, 32 were criminally indicted for use and/or possession of dangerous weapons.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:16 pm

One cynical point:

Trump was never conservative and I didn’t support him because there would be no point. Yeah he opposed Hillary and she was bad, so was Biden, and to someone who saw Trump as conservative that means my nevertrumperness was allowing these crazy liberals to ruin everything. I get it.

But this is in the past. I actually am very interested in defeating Biden or Kamala or whoever in 2024. Just as I was very interested in defeating Hillary before Trump’s recursive cycle of idiocy occurred.

Right now, people fighting to keep Trump defense the topic of the conservative movement aren’t helping Trump. That Trump had dedicated fans is well established (and so is his place in history as our worst leader). The person y’all are helping is Kamala.

If that’s not obvious to you, I don’t think anything I say can help.

Maybe if Biden were doing a good job, it would be complicated, but he’s doing a bad job, so let’s focus on what we can do about that. Vindicating Trump ain’t doing something about that.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:19 pm

Speaking of reading: Years ago, a sports star (Philadelphia, if I remember correctly) was asked about something in a book he had supposedly written (with a little help). He replied, with commendable honesty, that he hadn’t read that part of the book.

I think of that little story every time I see a reference to books that Trump has supposedly written. And I wonder, has he read his own books? I don’t recall him quoting from any of them, though I pay less attention to him than most here.

And I sometimes fantasize about replacing our idiotic campaign debates with simultaneous questions to the candidates the way Rick Warren, if I recall correctly, tried to do with McCain and Obama.

My first question would be simple: “Read any good books lately?”

And I would finish with asking them to explain how the Golden Rule has affected their lives.

Jim Miller (edcec1) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:24 pm

Here are the statements of facts against the gun totters on January 6th:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1353311/download

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1351686/download

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1351661/download

Despite one of them making a failed attempt to flee none of them attacked law enforcement.

I haven’t found anyone having used fireworks on January 6th, but I haven’t looked at Paul’s link. Thank you, Paul.

In any event my point still stands. Police were violently attacked on January 6th and police were violently attack last June. Both events should get the same consideration, IMO.

BuDuh (57a516) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:26 pm

35.

Eventually, the Earth and the Moon will be tidally locked to each other, so the same side of the Earth will always face the Moon, just like the same side of the Moon always presents the same face to the Earth. But this won’t happen for billions of years from now.

According to Isaac Asimov, that won;t happen, because a different disaster will intervene before that.

(The sun has only got about 5 billion years to go – less in its current state)

By the way there will be a partial solar eclipse next morning.

In the East Coast from about 5:24 to 6:30 I think. Best time about 5:32 am. It will be covered live on television. You need special preparation to look at it. It’s not like a lunar eclipse which we had about two weeks ago.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:29 pm

Paul’s link is searchable. There are a couple more gun charges. I won’t be able to look at the details as it is time for me to be with my family.

Maybe later.

BuDuh (57a516) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:33 pm

One last thought. The anarchists had spent two nights pummeling law enforcement until the decision was made to put up a security fence. Even if Trump didn’t walk out to the church, there is no convincing argument that the people, who already occupied the park area with their eggs, projectiles and fireworks, weren’t going to act the exact same way as their track record indicated.

I am really struggling to find the distinction between these crazies and the Jan 6th crazies.

BuDuh (a13e9b) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:38 pm

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:09 pm

However, he still crossed the street, stood in front a church that he hardly ever attended, used the Holy Bible–a book that he scarcely reads and knows little about–as a political prop, handling it like some strange foreign object,

He held it up like it was a Hebrew bible. Because maybe it was handed to him that way.

while engaging in a photo-op to communicate, uh, something, with a very stern face.

He never said anything. He may not even have known what was supposed to be the point. The idea could maybe be that the people destroying businesses should pay attention to some of what is the Bible. He was there because the church was supposed to have been damaged by BLM rioters.

It was still a ridiculous and stupid PR stunt, enough so that one of the generals who strode along with the POTUS felt guilty enough to apologize.

Because, being military, they shouldn’t have been involved in anything that could be construed as political. They didn’t realize at first what was supposed to happen.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:40 pm

“I am really struggling to find the distinction between these crazies and the Jan 6th crazies.”

Keep at it, I’m sure it’ll come to you.

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:50 pm

Just to refine it a little, 22 of the 32 charges involving dangerous weapons on Insurrection Day included use of or assault with dangerous weapons. The other ten involved mere possession.
Also, out of 515 criminally charged, 74 persons were charged with assault against police.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:53 pm

He held it up like it was a Hebrew bible. Because maybe it was handed to him that way.

Sammy, that implies that Trump knew the difference, when the reality is that it was a prop that Ivanka handed to him. Why are you bending over so backward to excuse this guy?

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:59 pm

The truth, or something very close to the truth, was clear a year ago, if you could avoid what was most frequently repeated by some of Trump’s more superior feeling political opponents:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/trumps-church-photo-op-all-the-absurd-details.html

JUNE 3, 2020

All the Absurd Details We’ve Learned About Trump’s Church Photo Op

..In the nearly two days since, a raft of reports have come out about how law enforcement decided to clear the park, why Trump made the trip, and who played a role in coordinating it. Here’s what we know:

Trump was cranky about coverage of his retreat to a White House bunker

On Friday, Trump was taken to an underground bunker for roughly an hour while protesters gathered outside the White House, CNN reported Monday. Trump now says he wasn’t hiding from anything, merely inspecting the bunker. In any case, he didn’t like media coverage of his retreat. The idea to go to the church was reportedly a way to show the country he wasn’t hiding from anything.

….The Times reports that Ivanka Trump, the president’s daughter and senior adviser, “urged” him to take the short walk to St. John’s Episcopal Church, where a small fire briefly burned during protests Sunday night. White House chief of staff Mark Meadows has given her even more credit, telling some people that the whole thing was her idea. In either case, Ivanka later accompanied her dad to the church, carrying a Bible in her $1,540 handbag.

…Both Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Joint Chiefs chairman Mark Milley claim they didn’t know in advance about the violent dispersal of protesters or that they would be used as props in a photo shoot. Esper told NBC News Tuesday that he thought Trump was leading him to Lafayette Park to talk to troops and to see a damaged bathroom….

…The order to clear the path from the White House to the church was personally given by Attorney General William Barr, according to multiple reports. It came after Barr was surprised Monday evening that the perimeter around the White House hadn’t been extended by an additional block, as was decided the day before; he then told police to get it done immediately. One official told the <i? Post that the park’s clearing had nothing to do with Trump’s imminent amble, but that hasn’t sopped some Democrats from calling for Barr’s head over the issue. Senator Elizabeth Warren tweeted Tuesday that he should be “impeached and removed immediately.”

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:07 pm

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:59 pm

Sammy, that implies that Trump knew the difference, when the reality is that it was a prop that Ivanka handed to him.

I would think he would have known the difference, if he had looked at it.

Why are you bending over so backward to excuse this guy?

I don;t like stuff that’s made up. I think it haas bad consequences and doesn’t help anyone see thinsgs clearly.

Like whembly said @62 …one aspect….about the Trump era is the willingness by media and Trump-critics to feel like they have to make up [stuff] in order to criticize Trump. There’s no need for that as its totally easy to criticize [stuff] crap that Trump legitimately did.

But it’s more work, and not quite so simpleminded.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:14 pm

Sammy, when a reporter asked him what he was holding, Trump said, “It’s a Bible.” FTR, it was the Revised Standard Version.
You’re assuming–wrongly IMO–that he actually reads what’s handed to him.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:29 pm

Stephen Colbert’s next segment is going to be about: Do vaccines make your blood magnetic?

He also tried quite a number of jokes about cicadas – and opened up with lobsters on drugs.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:53 pm

Keep at it, I’m sure it’ll come to you.

This is a disappointing comment, Dave.

BuDuh (5d7dd8) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:59 pm

Maybe the vax will help me with my spoon trick:
1. Put a regular spoon flat on the table, with the end hanging over the edge a bit.
2. Put your middle finger in the bowl of the spoon and your thumb on the end. (Make sure your fingers are dry.)
3. Pick up the spoon that way, keeping it parallel to the table.
4. Once you can do that, try two spoons: Overlap the ends so you get them both with your thumb, and try the ring finger for the second spoon.
5. You could do two? Great, now try three. It’s doable.
6. I have actually done it, very briefly. It’s pretty hard.

The trick depends in part on the shape of the spoon, and on the length of your fingers.
Here’s the interesting part: I learned the trick from my violin teacher long ago.

Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:05 pm

Friction! It’s a wonderful thing. Where would we be without it?

nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:28 pm

I meant to say I have picked up 4 spoons at once that way, using my thumb and all the other fingers.

Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:42 pm

Who needs a vaccine card when it’s so easy to spot the vaxxed.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:59 pm

86. 88.I actually have no idea what kind of a Bible Donald Trump held up in his hand.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/10/2021 @ 5:59 am

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:29 pm

Sammy, when a reporter asked him what he was holding, Trump said, “It’s a Bible.” FTR, it was the Revised Standard Version.

I thought that the general opinion.

You’re assuming–wrongly IMO–that he actually reads what’s handed to him.

I’m assuming the opposite.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:01 am

I’m assuming that everybody here knows by now that expecting the news media to report a story accurately is like expecting your cat to bring you a daisy as a gift instead of a dead mouse.(And I’m also assuming that you don’t need to be a cat owner to know what I’m talking about.) They are #FakeNews by default.

nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:17 am

In the end, what it comes down to, when all is said and done, the truth is distilled, the cows have come home, and the chalk has hit the blackboard, all Trump did was not let a crisis go to waste.

Totally hypocritically, insincerely, manipulatively, and more or less half-assed, well, that’s his default position.

nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:25 am

In any event my point still stands. Police were violently attacked on January 6th and police were violently attack last June. Both events should get the same consideration, IMO.

BuDuh (57a516) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:26 pm

Agree completely.

BuDuh I appreciate your reporting on what the IG report has shown. I haven’t had time to read it myself. To me it looks like a chaotic and poorly managed situation. But as I have not experience in this area I can’t say if that’s fair, or if things went as well as they could have all things considered.

Time123 (af99e9) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:26 am

In any event my point still stands. Police were violently attacked on January 6th and police were violently attack last June. Both events should get the same consideration, IMO.

I wasn’t going to weigh in, but the difference is that police initiated the attack in Lafayette Square. The protesters were peaceful that day, prior to their clearing operation.
On 1/6, the MAGA domestic terrorists initiated the violence by storming of the Capitol.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:59 am

I’m pretty sure that elements of the Lafayette Park mopes would have stormed the White House if they could have, samey-same as the Capitol Hill mopes. The only difference would have been their object. Not to overturn the election, but to steal Melania’s shoes and anything else not nailed down or too difficult to pry off.

nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2021 @ 7:08 am

Bud uh believes the people who resorted to violence to attempt to overturn an election outcome are the same as those who were violent when looting, stealing, destroying.

I can’t say I disagree, in my heart. They are both beyond reason, disgraceful, and the fact the trump rioters were seeking a far more egregious effect on our society was not likely very thoughtful.

But that doesn’t mean 1/6 isn’t unique. It’s not like other assaults on cops. It’s not like other protests. It belongs in the history books. The president is culpable and exposed his actual contempt for his country.

From that point on, those defending trump are themselves impossible to respect.

Dustin (4ea00f) — 6/10/2021 @ 8:26 am

like expecting your cat to bring you a daisy as a gift instead of a dead mouse

You’ve got the wrong kind of cat. A nice one brings flowers.
Am imaginative one brings assorted objects from the neighbor’s yard.

Radegunda (33a224) — 6/10/2021 @ 8:34 am

Not being a catholic, I will not argue.

nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2021 @ 8:36 am

Just to be clear, though, in my Comment 99, I meant the Bible photo-op. Not 1/6.

nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2021 @ 8:38 am

The president is culpable and exposed his actual contempt for his country.

This is the key point that a shockingly large number of Americans refuse to acknowledge: The most powerful person in the land would not accept the possibility that he could lose an election fairly, and he took unprecedented measures to try to maintain power. Many of his followers believed he wanted them to take up arms against the legislature. He told them to “fight like hell,” and he has never expressed any disapproval of the violence committed in his name.

That is categorically different from citizens causing mayhem with no incitement from the highest levels of power. It’s reasonable to say they are equally bad. What isn’t reasonable is saying that 1/6 was trivial.

Radegunda (33a224) — 6/10/2021 @ 8:48 am

The IG report establishes that there were plans to clear Lafayette Square for reasons unrelated to the photo op. It also provides ground for a reasonable inference that the timing and manner of the clearing were related to the photo op.

It was done immediately after Barr went to the White House and asked the Park Police why it hadn’t already been done. “Are these people still going to be here when POTUS comes out?” he asked. A couple of minutes later, the violent dispersal began. Then Trump walked through with Barr and others for the ridiculous Bible-holding photo op.

Then Barr lied about the use of tear gas.

Radegunda (33a224) — 6/10/2021 @ 9:02 am

I wasn’t going to weigh in, but the difference is that police initiated the attack in Lafayette Square. The protesters were peaceful that day, prior to their clearing operation.
On 1/6, the MAGA domestic terrorists initiated the violence by storming of the Capitol.

And:

A couple of minutes later, the violent dispersal began.

You have it exactly backwards. The police attempted to clear an area that had suffered nightly sieges. When they started to move elements of the mob attacked them. Is there anyone here at Patterico’s site that is defending the disobeying of lawful orders? Would anyone here shoot fireworks at cops? I don’t think so and that is why I am having difficulty figuring out the distinctions that are being drawn between the attacks on police on Jan 6th and last June.

I get that they were two distinct groups with their own methods of anarchism. I am not debating the motives of the crazies. I figured that was clear when I lumped them all into the group “Crazies.”

I am wondering if all of the rioters vs LEO confrontations since last year were a result of the officers “attacking” the protesters? Maybe most of them? Some of them? Is Lafayette Park the only one?

Again, IMO, you cannot throw scooters at cops the day before and expect them to disappear for your encore the next night. There were bad people doing bad things across the street from The Whitehouse, and the peaceful protesters amongst them did not stop them. The cops were the only choice. And, somehow, they are vilified.

I don’t get it.

BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/10/2021 @ 9:25 am

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:29 pm

Sammy, when a reporter asked him what he was holding, Trump said, “It’s a Bible.” FTR, it was the Revised Standard Version.

Somebody wrote that he’s holding it up like it was a Hebrew bible but I don’t think that’s the explanation

First thing to notice: He’s holding it up all wrong. His thumb is on the ou It’s hard tp hold someting that way.

2) You can;t see any title.

3) It appears to be that the spine is on Trump’s right side, and the opening on his left.

What you can say, is that if he was trying to show the front cover to the camera, that is correct for a Hebrew book, but if it were a book whose main language is English, you’d be looking at the back cover or it would be displayed for the camera upside down. Except that nothing’s vosoble in any case – it’s just black.

The best explanation for all this is that Trump wasn’t paying any attention to what he was holding up n his right hand (or to how it would look at least) and he’s gripping it for the minimum amount of time.

Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/10/2021 @ 9:52 am

Squinty McStumblebum announces U.S. taxpayers will buy, [at a cost of $4 billion borrowed from China] then give away 500 million doses of Covid 19 Pfizer vaccine to batte a virus that originated in– China.

Reaganomics.

… and Xi grinned.

DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/10/2021 @ 10:49 am

#108
Barr did not lie about “tear gas”. He parsed it kind of fine. The Feds deployed smoke, the MPD deployed tear gas and the IG criticized the lack of communication between the feds and the MPD on rules of engagement.
The MPD is nowhere near Barr’s immediate chain of command. The people that report to the White House didn’t deploy tear gas, if you want to know who did, go ask MPD chain of command nao Barr

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/10/2021 @ 4:34 pm

Nah, steve, he lied. And the quote seems to be accurate. He wanted that area cleared for Trump’s photo op. All these efforts to twist it all around were pretty stupid though. We saw this happen on live TV. Trump cleared the area for his photo op minutes later, with riot shields smashing into that australian journalist, with trump holding that bible awkwardly.

As often is the case, the Trump defense force wants to say the people telling the truth are stupid, don’t get it, are sheeple, whatever. It’s tedious and I don’t really care, because Trump got his ass kicked by Joe Biden. Joe Biden. Trump is a joke.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/10/2021 @ 5:20 pm

I see Barr as one of those old curmudgeon lawyers who does not suffer fools at all.
He reminds me of an old lawyer at a civil proceeding facing off against three lawyers and a paralegal on a case where the old curmudgeon has the retired guy who had written the case law as a witness, he had the water rights airtight. The opposing counsel was “the best” but showed up with names spelled wrong, corporations spelled wrong, facts in minor disarray, and now face a witness whose work they had quoted extensively. So curmudgeon lawyer amuses himself all week spending the opposing clients money and then gets legal fees.
A big passive/aggressive FU.

Barr isn’t the type of guy who wastes his energy explaining the difference between smoke and tear gas to a person he thinks is a dishonest broker and an idiot. Its the ancient equivalent of “Google it yourself, dumbass”

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:13 pm

That wasn’t meant to you personally Dustin.

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:15 pm

Should have been more careful…

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:17 pm

Thanks for pointing out the magnetism issue. I have been vaccinated and was planning to put a lot of important work on floppies. I could have ruined a lot of work.

Fred (ffa60f) — 6/10/2021 @ 7:58 pm

The Toobin Missile Crisis is over. I didn’t miss his absence.

Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/10/2021 @ 8:42 pm

No worries at all, Steve.

But why not focus the gop away from defending this guy? Let’s pick a winner.

Dustin (4237e0) — 6/10/2021 @ 8:55 pm

@109

I don’t think so and that is why I am having difficulty figuring out the distinctions that are being drawn between the attacks on police on Jan 6th and last June.

There’s not much to figure out. Some people start from the ending, i.e. how does this fit their political narrative and bias. Then they work backwards. So, if your perspective is focused on Trump, either the love him or hate him variety, that’s going to shape everything else. It’s what let’s people say they don’t care that the media lied about the story or that all of the “facts” are falling apart in story after story and also rely on media narrative and “facts”.

frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2021 @ 4:19 am

steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/10/2021 @ 6:17 pm

I seem to remember an exchange like this already happening. In prior threads the direct statement was made that Barr lied and someone gave essentially the same reply you gave. The next time this comes up in a thread I’d expect the same thing to happen again. Let some time go by and we’ll have some of the people here citing Trump’s ordering of the teargas of peaceful protesters in the park on the list of his evil.

frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2021 @ 4:42 am

I don’t think so and that is why I am having difficulty figuring out the distinctions that are being drawn between the attacks on police on Jan 6th and last June.

Lowlifes looting a Lowe’s is not the same thing as lowlifes storming the U.S. Capitol during the counting of the Electoral Votes just because police were attacked in both instances.

The target is the distinction. Not the blue shirts in front of it. If you honestly cannot see the difference, you are probably a foreigner who grew up in a police state.

nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2021 @ 4:56 am

Regardless also, in my opinion, of whether lowlife race-hustling grievance mongers incited the first-mentioned group of lowlifes, and a lowlife corrupt criminal traitor orange New York sewer rat incited the second-mentioned group of lowlifes, since every sentient person has always known that there’s no real difference there either.

Yeah, yeah, I know, but a year-long eviction moratorium would inevitably be followed by a year-long backlog in eviction court.

nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2021 @ 5:06 am

Speaking of the eviction moratorium, how come Sidney Powell never thought to use that to keep Trump in the White House, I wonder?

nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2021 @ 5:08 am

Speaking of the eviction moratorium, how come Sidney Powell never thought to use that to keep Trump in the White House, I wonder?

Asserting something blatantly wrong doesn;t come naturally to mind. And it doesn’t come close to applying (although that hasn’t stopped her from making legal clams\

Trump was not paying rent, the government was.. The General Services Administration was the landlord (since I think the \Ford Administration, when they changed the way of accounting for it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Services_Administration

In 1974 the Federal Buildings Fund was initiated, allowing GSA to issue rent bills to federal agencies.

Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 6/11/2021 @ 6:24 am

“It’s what let’s people say they don’t care that the media lied about the story or that all of the “facts” are falling apart in story after story and also rely on media narrative and “facts”.”

Where’s the lie, frosty?

Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/11/2021 @ 8:33 am

The Toobin Missile Crisis is over. I didn’t miss his absence.

You can’t keep a good man down.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/11/2021 @ 8:40 am

But why not focus the gop away from defending this guy? Let’s pick a winner.

Because you can’t be a winner in the GOP if Trump disses you?

Trump delenda est

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/11/2021 @ 8:42 am

6/9/2021

More Low Hanging Fruit: Anti-Vax Doctor Claims COVID-19 Vaccines Cause Us To Become Magnetized

128 Responses to “More Low Hanging Fruit: Anti-Vax Doctor Claims COVID-19 Vaccines Cause Us To Become Magnetized”

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