Patterico's Pontifications

6/1/2021

Michael Flynn Says a Myanmar-Style Coup “Should Happen” While Trump Talks of Reinstatement

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Over Memorial Day weekend we were treated to the spectacle of a former National Security Advisor saying there is “no reason” a Myanmar-style coup can’t happen here — that, indeed, it “should happen”:

Flynn is trying to walk it back, saying he was saying there is “no reason” that a coup “should happen” here. One is reminded of Trump stating at Helsinki: “(Putin) just said it’s not Russia. I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be.” And then, 24 hours later, saying he misspoke and meant the opposite. Like Trump’s characterization, Flynn’s walkback is a lie, it took him a while to come up with, and it is directly contradicted by video that we all saw. But apparently (for now) Flynn feels he can’t stick with the open talk of a coup.

Give it time. It will go mainstream.

I wonder how Trump himself would answer the question posed in the clip: why can’t a Myanmar-style coup happen here? I’m pretty sure Trump would not tell the questioner that we just can’t do stuff like that in the United States of America.

Meanwhile, Trump is now talking to his pals about being “reinstated” in the Oval Office. It’s not just Maggie Haberman saying so, although she is saying so:

It’s also Byron York:

Don’t waste too much energy screaming about how the sources are unnamed and so forth. My guess is, Trump will be saying this himself pretty soon. (Doesn’t he have rallies coming up? Oh boy!) Yes: he will say it in public . . . and it will not cause anybody to move on. Instead, it will cause people to write Serious Think Pieces that are, at a minimum, anti-anti-coup in tone.

“It’s a ridiculous thing to believe Trump is saying this, and also, when he says it he’s right!” has historically been the cult’s defense of Trump, and the contradictions don’t seem to matter to the cultists. If anything, they help the virtue signal to shine that much brighter.

121 Responses to “Michael Flynn Says a Myanmar-Style Coup “Should Happen” While Trump Talks of Reinstatement”

  1. As I’ve said before, one might be so frustrated with our political leaders that a military take-over seems a good idea (not that military take-overs have proved better able to deal with things elsewhere), but it is beyond belief that one could want to burn down the Constitution in order to return Donald Trump to power.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  2. Mar-a-lago isn’t working. I suggest St Helena.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. 2. I prefer Guantanamo.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  4. @2. He’s summering in Bedminster, N.J., Kevin. Been there; [lived in nearby Basking Ridge for 5 years.]

    Cicada Central, though.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  5. Were all those screams from Flynn’s audience because they all sat on their Phi Beta Kappa keys, you think?

    For the comrades from Rio Linda, Phi Beta Kappa requires an undergraduate GPA of 3.8 (A=4.00) to be invited for membership.

    I expect that this scam will last as long as the $3,200 stimulus extra cash that these dipwiddles got does.

    nk (1d9030)

  6. Bad move. NJ will extradite to NY.

    St Helena, though, is really really isolated and previous guests said the food was all poisoned.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  7. As I’ve said before, one might be so frustrated with our political leaders that a military take-over seems a good idea

    “one”

    Patterico (e349ce)

  8. I can remember when it was *only* the media hat had its own narrative and facts.

    DRJ (03cb91)

  9. Not to worry. Americans military officials are lousy at nation building.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  10. We already knew Flynn was an un-American non-patriot after selling out to Erdogan while still employed by Trump, so it’s no surprise that he said that a takeover of the United States government by a military junta “should happen”.
    And to think, this is a guy whom Trump saw fit to pardon.

    Paul Montagu (a05eda)

  11. good thing flynn isn’t on the ballot anywhere and isn’t active military either

    JF (e1156d)

  12. why can’t a Myanmar-style coup happen here? I’m pretty sure Trump would not tell the questioner that we just can’t do stuff like that in the United States of America.

    Is this how you’d answer the question? That we “just can’t do that”?

    Did you mean that we can’t do that and have something called the United States of America? That’s not really true is it since we could have a coup and still call the result whatever we want?

    Did you mean that it was somehow physically impossible for a military coup to happen within the geographical boundaries of the US?

    Did you mean the US military was incapable of mounting a coup?

    I’d like to think you mean something else but for me to do that I have to imagine different words or phrasing. Can you elaborate on this and possibly clear up any confusion? No rush though, take your time.

    frosty (f27e97)

  13. “one”

    Oh, more than one. Not me though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. 4…some would say the true New Jersey. Met someone who grew up near Morristown and they got offended that I thought they were from the Pacfic Northwest from the way they talked.

    urbanleftbehind (a699fa)

  15. Again, Trump is not the cause of anything. He is the symptom. Likewise his supporters are not the problem either, but a symptom of a corrupt and broken system that the powers that be see no need to address, let alone fix.

    In many ways, Trump was Military-Coup Lite so it is not surprising that some of them want the real thing. But they are not the problem either; the problem is a self-serving political class.

    The solution here is change, of course, but not through the two legacy parties. They are no more able to fix what ails us than the Democrats and Whigs were able to fix things in 1850. The “coup” that is needed is not the extralegal kind, but the kind you get with a new different party.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. Back story: According to CNN, talk about the Myanmar coup and praise of it has been going on for months in “Qanon” and Trump supporting forums, so this comparison didn’t come out of the blue.

    If you parse his words differently, what Mike Flynn said can be interpreted as saying that there is no reason it should happen, but if you listen to the way he said it, it sounds like he’s agreeing with the person who asked the question. First, he says, right away, “No reason” and then, gauging that the reaction is favorable, he adds, quickly and half sotto voce: “I mean, it should happen.”

    He was just currying favor with the audience, though.

    It was not “dangerous” so that MSNBC was doing the right thing and being “responsible” in not running the video, unless you expected ex-military people maybe to attempt it – and, as if, if that were the case, they needed MSNBC to be inspired to go ahead. (MSNBC having such a huge pro-Trump audience, or maybe being so big in general, that some conspirator might capture the video and repost it.

    The reason the coup in Burma took place is that the military there is a law unto itself and the average ordinary soldier is separated from civilians.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/28/world/asia/myanmar-army-protests.html

    The Tatmadaw, which says it has a standing force of up to half a million men, is often portrayed as a robotic rank of warriors bred to kill….They occupy a privileged state within a state, in which soldiers live, work and socialize apart from the rest of society, imbibing an ideology that puts them far above the civilian population. The officers described being constantly monitored by their superiors, in barracks and on Facebook. A steady diet of propaganda feeds them notions of enemies at every corner, even on city streets.

    The cumulative effect is a bunkered worldview, in which orders to kill unarmed civilians are to be followed without question….

    ….“Most of the soldiers are brainwashed,” said a captain who is a graduate of the prestigious Defense Services Academy, Myanmar’s equivalent of West Point. Like two of the others who spoke with The New York Times, his name is not being published because of the possibility of retribution; he is still on active duty.

    “I joined the Tatmadaw to protect the country, not to fight our own people,” he added. “I am so sad to see soldiers killing our own people.”
    The Tatmadaw has been on a war footing since the country gained independence in 1948, battling communist guerrillas, ethnic insurgencies and democracy advocates forced into the jungle after military crackdowns. In the cultlike confines of the Tatmadaw, the Buddhist Bamar ethnic majority is glorified at the expense of Myanmar’s many ethnic minorities, who have faced decades of military repression….

    ….Although the Tatmadaw shared some power with an elected government over the five years preceding the coup, it kept its grip on the country. It has its own conglomerates, banks, hospitals, schools, insurance agencies, stock options, mobile network and vegetable farms.

    The military runs television stations, publishing houses and a film industry, with rousing offerings like “Happy Land of Heroes” and “One Love, One Hundred Wars.” There are Tatmadaw dance troupes, traditional music ensembles and advice columns admonishing women to dress modestly.

    The vast majority of officers and their families live in military compounds, their every move monitored….

    ….Officers’ children often marry other officers’ children, or the progeny of tycoons who have profited from their military connections. Often, foot soldiers breed the next generation of infantrymen. The ecosystem of the State Administration Council, as the junta that grabbed power last month calls itself, is a tangle of interconnected family trees.

    Even during the five years of political opening, a quarter of the seats in Parliament were reserved for men in green. They didn’t mix with other lawmakers or vote as anything but a bloc. The most important government ministries remained in military hands.

    The reason the military agreed to that, was that they didn’t want to become a Chinese puppet state, which is what seemed to be the alternative. But now they might have lost it all.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  17. Instead, it will cause people to write Serious Think Pieces that are, at a minimum, anti-anti-coup in tone.

    There’s already been a quasi-intellectual think piece on a super-Trumpy website saying that a military coup might be the only way to save France and hey it might be necessary here too. You can bet there will be more of the same from the “serious” folks in the New Right if their lord and master starts talking about it. They decided that he’s the gold standard of patriotism while practically every institution in America is corrupt, so whatever he desires must be the most pro-American course to take.

    But hold it: I thought the military was going all wokey. How can we have a proper coup with a corrupted military?

    Radegunda (2a2f56)

  18. Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/1/2021 @ 9:54 am

    But hold it: I thought the military was going all wokey. How can we have a proper coup with a corrupted military?

    Having trouble deciding which propaganda to go with? Don’t worry you’ll soon work out how you can go with both.

    frosty (f27e97)

  19. More:

    The cloistered nature of the Tatmadaw may help to explain why its leadership underestimated the intensity of opposition to the putsch. Officers trained in psychological warfare regularly plant conspiracy theories about democracy in Facebook groups favored by soldiers, according to social media experts and one of the officers who spoke with The Times.

    In this paranoid world, the thumping that Ms. Aung San Suu Kyi’s National League for Democracy delivered to the military’s proxy party in last November’s elections was easily portrayed as electoral fraud.

    A Muslim cabal, funded by oil-rich sheikhdoms, is accused of trying to destroy the Buddhist faith of Myanmar’s majority. Influential monks, who count army generals among those praying at their feet, preach that the Tatmadaw and Buddhist monkhood must unite to combat Islam.

    In the Tatmadaw’s telling, a rapacious West could conquer Myanmar at any moment. Fear of invasion is thought to be one reason that military rulers moved the capital early in this century from Yangon, near the coast, to the landlocked plains of Naypyidaw….

    ….The feared invasion isn’t necessarily by plane or sea, but by the “black hand” of foreign influence. George Soros, the American philanthropist and democracy advocate, stands accused in Tatmadaw circles of trying to subvert the country with piles of cash for activists and politicians. A military spokesman implied during a news conference that people protesting the coup, too, were foreign-funded.

    Captain Tun Myat Aung said that in his first year at the Defense Services Academy, he was shown a film that portrayed democracy activists in 1988 as frenzied animals slicing off soldiers’ heads. In truth, thousands of protesters and others were killed by the Tatmadaw that year.

    The Burmese army has been like that maybe since 1948.

    There are some precedents for something like that. The Mamluks of Egypt or the Janissaries. It could be part of the reason the “Founding Fathers” opposed a standing army.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  20. Trump’s supporters hate the united states and our values.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  21. @14. Well, there are two Jerseys. South of the bedroom hamlets of revolutionary times, refinery alley, New Brunswick, Perth Amboy and such it truly is a ‘Garden State’ – as long as you know ‘which exit’ to take. Toward Cape May through pine barrens, barrier islands and such. Jersey tomatoes and sweet Jersey corn are tops.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  22. @15 you don’t need the military to stage a coup

    unless you’re drawing some line between soft and hard ones

    ask some fbi folks

    hard ones are bad cuz they can get ugly?

    and you know how to trick out the law but not a rifle

    JF (e1156d)

  23. 20.Trump’s supporters hate the united states and our values.

    Royalist thinking. It’s just the opposite; beware the pitchfork brigades; they’re equal opportunity party skewers – as ice cream Nancy learned.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  24. Trump had lost support of the military well before he left office.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. you don’t need the military to stage a coup

    Well, define it down far enough and we hold a coup every election.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  26. @15 Kevin

    Trump is a symptom. But his repeated lies and support of conspiracy theories do real damage that are on him. The fact that he’s the leader of the GOP makes it significant

    Time123 (457a1d)

  27. @24, Kevin that’s good data. But keep in mind that military time readership tends to skew more towards officers and that’s a source of potential error.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  28. Sidney Powell seems to be talking about what occasionally maybe happened in contested local elections in the United States or maybe even in legislatures. But a president of the United States is certified through an entirely different process. She’s just fooling her audience.

    As for Napoleon he got back in power in 1815 by getting people in various military units to come to his side, and by the fact that the alternative was a king nobody really cared for.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Days

    …On 26 February 1815, when the British and French guard ships were absent, he slipped away from Portoferraio on board the French brig Inconstant with some 1,000 men and landed at Golfe-Juan, between Cannes and Antibes, on 1 March 1815. Except in royalist Provence, he was warmly received.[7] He avoided much of Provence by taking a route through the Alps, marked today as the Route Napoléon.[13]

    Firing no shot in his defence, his troop numbers swelled until they became an army. On 5 March, the nominally royalist 5th Infantry Regiment at Grenoble went over to Napoleon en masse. The next day they were joined by the 7th Infantry Regiment under its colonel, Charles de la Bédoyère, who was executed for treason by the Bourbons after the campaign ended. An anecdote illustrates Napoleon’s charisma: when royalist troops were deployed to stop the march of Napoleon’s force at Laffrey, near Grenoble, Napoleon stepped out in front of them, ripped open his coat and said “If any of you will shoot his Emperor, here I am.” The men joined his cause.[14]

    Marshal Ney, now one of Louis XVIII’s commanders, had said that Napoleon ought to be brought to Paris in an iron cage, but on 14 March, Ney joined Napoleon with 6,000 men. Five days later, after proceeding through the countryside promising constitutional reform and direct elections to an assembly, to the acclaim of gathered crowds, Napoleon entered the capital, from where Louis XVIII had recently fled.[7

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  29. what did that #RESIST stuff mean anyway?

    just a joke, nobody took it seriously

    JF (e1156d)

  30. There is also the election in Samoa.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Samoan_general_election

    …In March 2021, Naomi Mataʻafa, a former member of the ruling Human Rights Protection Party (HRPP) and a former Deputy Prime Minister, was elected to lead the main opposition party, Faʻatuatua i le Atua Samoa ua Tasi (FAST).[5] Tuilaepa led the HRPP into the election.

    Preliminary results showed a tie between the HRPP and FAST, with each winning 25 seats in the Legislative Assembly.[6][7] This was confirmed in the final count.[8] However, the Samoan electoral commission subsequently determined that, with women comprising 9.8 percent of the elected members, the results did not fulfil a constitutional provision which required that at least 10 percent of seats be held by women. As a result, an additional female candidate – Ali’imalemanu Alofa Tuuau of the HRPP – was declared elected, increasing the parliament’s membership to 52 and the HRPP’s seat total to 26. Following this, Tuala Iosefo Ponifasio, an independent member, announced that he would side with FAST, creating a hung parliament with both the HRPP and FAST holding 26 seats.[9]

    However, on 17 May 2021, the Supreme Court of Samoa overturned the decision of the electoral commission, cancelling the additional seat, and ruling against Tuilaepa’s request for a new election.[10] This gave FAST a slim majority, allowing them to declare victory and select Mataʻafa as Samoa’s first female Prime Minister.[10]

    …On the morning of 24 May, FAST MPs and supporters arrived at Parliament to find police surrounding the building and the doors locked.[110] The Clerk of Parliament refused them entry, in obedience to Faafisi’s order. Mata’afa said that MPs would wait for the head of state, and convene parliament on the front steps if necessary.[111][112][113] Later that afternoon FAST Party MPs and Ministers were sworn in in a tent outside parliament.[114][115][116] Tuilaepa responded by accusing the FAST Party of “treason”.[117] [118] That evening, the Federated States of Micronesia became the first government to recognise the new government and Naomi Mata’afa as the legitimate Prime Minister.[119][120] This was followed by Palau which on 27 May, became the second foreign government to recognise the legitimacy of Mata’afa’s administration.[121]

    For updates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Samoan_constitutional_crisis

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  31. Time123 (6e0727) — 6/1/2021 @ 10:02 am

    Trump’s supporters hate the [U]nited [S]tates and our values.

    FIFY

    frosty (f27e97)

  32. @31. Well that’s embarrassing.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  33. Time123 (6e0727) — 6/1/2021 @ 10:45 am

    🙂

    I post a lot from my phone. I keep waiting for the day I typo something that outs me as Flynn’s neo-nazi pet gimp. It’s only a matter of time really.

    frosty (f27e97)

  34. make sure to capitalize Hitler and Bin Laden down thread

    JF (e1156d)

  35. It is refreshing to see commenters agree in these stressful times. Thank you, time123 and frosty.

    DRJ (03cb91)

  36. Or were you only agreeing on the capitalization and not the sentiment?

    DRJ (03cb91)

  37. Trump supporters pulling off a coup, a successful one that is, falls in somewhere below playing pool with a piece of rope, I think. Just not the kind of people who could ever accomplish it.

    nk (1d9030)

  38. Given the number of times Flynn called for martial law (a coup by any other name) himself, I doubt he was confused.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  39. DRJ (03cb91) — 6/1/2021 @ 10:51 am

    Or were you only agreeing on the capitalization and not the sentiment?

    I think I agree with Time123 more often than I disagree. I think in a lot of cases it’s a matter of degree, e.g. I don’t think all Trump supporters are of the same mind on anything but some of them are clearly unhinged.

    But don’t let this interlude fool you. I’ll return to my regularly scheduled program of disagreeing with everything after my next cup of coffee.

    frosty (f27e97)

  40. It was a nice interlude.

    DRJ (03cb91)

  41. And I think I’ve stumbled on the reason for Trump supporters’ devotion to Trump. He needs them! Has the World ever needed them?

    nk (1d9030)

  42. @2/31/32/33. Chinese-assembled phone, eh?!?

    Now that’s embarrassing. And, of course—

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. 38.Given the number of times Flynn called for martial law (a coup by any other name) himself, I doubt he was confused.

    Meh. He’s ‘The Donald’s’ “Jack D. Ripper.”

    Given Squinty McSteptripper’s Mister Magoo presidency, are you not entertained?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  44. Having trouble deciding which propaganda to go with? Don’t worry you’ll soon work out how you can go with both.
    frosty (f27e97)

    So the people in the Trumpy commentariat who say the U.S. military is falling to wokeness are merely engaging in “propaganda,” then.
    Likewise the people in Trumpworld who think a military coup would probably be good for France and good for the United States too.

    It’s Trumpers who need to get their propaganda straight — such as when they purport to be outraged that anyone would use terms like “insurgency” and “attempted coup” in reference to what Trump loyalists did on Jan. 6, and then proceed to explain why they think a coup might be beneficial or necessary and why a civil war is all but inevitable.

    I’ve been noting for years that inconsistency and double standards are hallmarks of Trumpism.

    Radegunda (2a2f56)

  45. nk (1d9030) — 6/1/2021 @ 11:12 am

    And I think I’ve stumbled on the reason for Trump supporters’ devotion to Trump. He needs them! Has the World ever needed them?

    Has the world ever needed anyone? Won’t it just keep moving around the sun either way happily doing the whole plate tectonics thing and enjoying the seasonal variations?

    frosty (f27e97)

  46. It was a nice interlude.

    DRJ (03cb91) — 6/1/2021 @ 11:06 am

    But let’s not have it last too long. I’m not likely to learn anything if Frosty just starts saying ditto

    Also, he’s correct. My initial comment painted with too broad a brush.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  47. @45, the cemetery is full of men the world could not do without.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  48. I can remember a time when US politicians looked ahead, to be a shining beacon for other countries and their politicians. Now the Trumpers want to emulate Myanmar.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  49. You bought him; you own him:

    “The Biden economic plan is working.” – President Plagiarist, 5-10-21
    California gasoline tax schduled to rise to 51 cents/gallon July 1. USPS first class postage set to rise to 58 cents this summer… and so it goes.

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  50. Most Republicans in a January 2020 survey agreed that “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.” More than 40% agreed that “a time will come when patriotic Americans have to take the law into their own hands.”

    But how DARE those dastardly libs and NeverTrumpers say that we have clear evidence of Republicans using force and intimidation in an effort to overturn an election after their hero insisted over and over that it had been stolen from him and that it was the duty of patriots to do something about it and “fight like hell” or else they’re “not going to have a country anymore.”

    Radegunda (2a2f56)

  51. Many officials in the former administration were alarmed by the chatter about declaring martial law as a means of overturning the election. That’s why all ten living former defense secretaries signed an open letter published on January 3 warning that “Involving the military in election disputes would cross into dangerous territory.”

    Radegunda (2a2f56)

  52. Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/1/2021 @ 11:47 am

    So the people in the Trumpy commentariat who say the U.S. military is falling to wokeness are merely engaging in “propaganda,” then.

    Well, not merely, but yes a lot of it is. I’d say most of what you see in the media is propaganda from one side or the other unless you’re looking at readiness reports, statistical analysis, or some other sort of objective data.

    Likewise the people in Trumpworld who think a military coup would probably be good for France and good for the United States too.

    I’m starting to get the feeling that you really don’t know what media manipulation of public opinion is.

    I’ve been noting for years that inconsistency and double standards are hallmarks of Trumpism.

    It’s not limited to Trumpism. There’s a reason distrust of the media and other institutions is so high. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/1/2021 @ 9:51 am does a good job describing this.

    Pretending that you can note one group doing this while ignoring, or promoting, that group’s political opponents doing the same thing might be why you’ve been noting it for years and it’s a pretty good indication that you’ll be busy noting it for years to come.

    Maybe, and you’re probably going to think this is right-wing pro-Trump crazy talk, but just maybe, you should call out all of the inconsistency and double standards even the garbage that plays into your confirmation bias. You know, be consistent and not have double standards.

    frosty (f27e97)

  53. good thing flynn isn’t on the ballot anywhere and isn’t active military either

    I guess that’s sarcasm? Nevertheless I agree. Also, it’s a damned good thing he’s no longer a National Security Advisor. The way to keep him out of government forever is to never, ever vote for the guy who gave him that position.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  54. 47. https://quoteinvestigator.com/tag/charles-de-gaulle

    Elbert Hubbard was a prominent writer and publisher who also founded the Roycroft artisan community in New York. He collected adages and also formulated many of his own. In 1907 his publication “The Philistine: A Periodical of Protest” printed the following phrase as a free standing saying without attribution:

    The graveyards are full of people the world could not do without.

    Sometimes that’s true or close to the truth. Or we wouldn’t have had World War II.

    And how many other circumstances are there where blunders were made by a lot of people?

    And how many cases are there where one man saved a lot?

    King Solomon wrote about that:

    https://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3109.htm

    יד עִיר קְטַנָּה, וַאֲנָשִׁים בָּהּ מְעָט; וּבָא-אֵלֶיהָ מֶלֶךְ גָּדוֹל, וְסָבַב אֹתָהּ, וּבָנָה עָלֶיהָ, מְצוֹדִים גְּדֹלִים. 14 there was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it;

    טו וּמָצָא בָהּ, אִישׁ מִסְכֵּן חָכָם, וּמִלַּט-הוּא אֶת-הָעִיר, בְּחָכְמָתוֹ; וְאָדָם לֹא זָכַר, אֶת-הָאִישׁ הַמִּסְכֵּן הַהוּא. 15 now there was found in it a man poor and wise, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.

    טז וְאָמַרְתִּי אָנִי, טוֹבָה חָכְמָה מִגְּבוּרָה; וְחָכְמַת הַמִּסְכֵּן בְּזוּיָה, וּדְבָרָיו אֵינָם נִשְׁמָעִים. 16 Then said I: ‘Wisdom is better than strength; nevertheless the poor man’s wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard.’

    If this is a real case, then Solomon might have had his name – or s it that he couldn;t get his name?

    Later on, an indispensable man, Archimedes, famous to this day, devised weapons to save his city, Syracuse in Sicily.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Syracuse_(213%E2%80%93212_BC)

    But did not ultimately succeed.

    He was killed by a Roman soldier although he was not supposed to be killed. It is said he did not want to be interrupted by the soldier.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  55. Is this how you’d answer the question? That we “just can’t do that”?

    No.

    Did you mean that we can’t do that and have something called the United States of America? That’s not really true is it since we could have a coup and still call the result whatever we want?

    No.

    Did you mean that it was somehow physically impossible for a military coup to happen within the geographical boundaries of the US?

    No.

    Did you mean the US military was incapable of mounting a coup?

    No.

    I’d like to think you mean something else but for me to do that I have to imagine different words or phrasing. Can you elaborate on this and possibly clear up any confusion? No rush though, take your time.

    I think it’s pretty obvious to most people what I meant. And I didn’t use it as the example of what I would say, but as the example of what Trump would not. Nor did I spend a lot of time worry over the wording because I figured it would be obvious to most people what I was getting at.

    To those, like you, for whom it’s apparently not obvious, I suggest you try guessing better. Try a guess that you think I might actually agree with rather than several guesses that are obviously not what I meant.

    I could sit here and explain it in different words, I guess, but after watching you hazard several interpretations that are pretty obviously not interpretations I would ever agree with, I don’t feel like explaining it. Your choices are to try harder to give my words a reasonable interpretation, or remain confused.

    I like to incentivize the act of trying to steelman other people’s arguments and disincentivize strawmanning them. That means I don’t reward the latter with new attempts to explain the already obvious, so that my new explanation can be re-interpreted anew in ways I would obviously find wrong.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  56. Sammy you never cease to amaze! I thought I was stealing that from DeGaul.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  57. Trump is a symptom. But his repeated lies and support of conspiracy theories do real damage that are on him. The fact that he’s the leader of the GOP makes it significant

    Yes, but all of that is a symptom too. This is not a healthy country with an unhealthy irritant. There are core problems that need to be addressed before we can be free of demagogues like Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  58. But keep in mind that military time readership tends to skew more towards officers and that’s a source of potential error.

    If we are talking about coups, we are talking about officers.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. the reason for Trump supporters’ devotion to Trump. He needs them!

    He owns their souls.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. @56. de Gaulle?! One of the oddest mementos from my years in Europe is a ballpoint pen the sold at the Eiffel Tower in the shape of the big snouted Chuck.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. maybe, you should call out all of the inconsistency and double standards even the garbage that plays into your confirmation bias.

    Tell me how my “confirmation bias” is misleading me, from your unbiased perspective.

    Pretending that you can note one group doing this while ignoring, or promoting, that group’s political opponents doing the same thing might be why you’ve been noting it for years and it’s a pretty good indication that you’ll be busy noting it for years to come.

    Where have I been “promoting” contradiction and double standards on any side?
    The subject of this post is calls for a military coup and the like from Trumpworld — which is why my comments are about Trumpworld’s contradictions on that subject, rather than all the contradictions and inconsistencies that have ever come from “that group’s political opponents.” Failing to enumerate them in response to this post is not proof that I ignore or “promote” such inconsistencies.

    When Trump and his minions stop floating the idea that a coup or civil war might be just what we need, I will probably stop mentioning their hypocrisy on the subject.

    I’ve noted before that for many years I posted comments (under other names) about Dem-left dishonesty and craziness. When the side I have long associated with is flagrantly hypocritical and dishonest and seditious, it offends me more.

    Radegunda (2a2f56)

  62. 56. Time123 (6e0727) — 6/1/2021 @ 1:28 pm

    ! I thought I was stealing that from DeGaul.

    I thought so, too – that it was said by De Gaulle but might have been said earlier by somebody else — but Google had a different idea. What;s more it had the quote in the form you gave it.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  63. Plagiarist in Tulsa; the Peter Principle on display.

    Still the senator.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  64. Charles de Gaulle is in the URL.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  65. anti-anti-coup

    I remember anti-anti-communism, a position taken by those who neither cared for Communism not for the table-pounders who saw Communism everywhere. So anti-anti-coup is what? People saying “It can’t happen here, so stop with the Trump bashing”? Even though Trump is advocating a coup or other form of extralegal overthrow?

    I’m not sure how one can be against a coup and not against someone attempting to incite one.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. OMG. It’s official; President Plagiarist in Tulsa:

    “Mad Man.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  67. JF @11-

    good thing flynn …… isn’t active military either

    Doesn’t matter:

    The Prosecution of Military Retirees Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice
    …….
    Article I of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to “make rules for the government and regulation” of military forces. Congress has promulgated these rules through the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

    In addition to outlining the rules and procedures of courts-martial, the UCMJ defines the military justice system’s jurisdiction. Unlike most civilian jurisdictions, UCMJ jurisdiction is not territorially bound. Instead, jurisdiction is predicated upon an individual’s relationship to the military. As one might expect, the code applies at all times to active-duty military members, students at the service academies, prisoners of war, and those serving sentences imposed by a court-martial. It also applies to both reservists and national guardsmen during inactive duty training, so long as the national guardsmen are in federal service. And the UCMJ can apply to certain civilians that interact closely with the military.

    But jurisdiction over military retirees stands out as peculiar. Article 2(a)(4) allows for the court-martial of regular component (Army, Navy, Marine, Air Force, Space Force, and Coast Guard) retirees who are entitled to pay, and Article 2(a)(6) allows for the court-martial of retirees who are part of the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve. Moreover, despite their retiree status, these two groups are treated like active-duty members in that they are continuously subject to UCMJ jurisdiction.

    The application of UCMJ jurisdiction to retirees is significant because courts-martial are not Article III courts and are therefore not subject to some of the basic protections contained within the Bill of Rights. For instance, court-martialed defendants do not have the right to a jury trial; instead, an eight-person “member panel” selected by a high-ranking officer serves as the trier of fact. Consequently, whether Article 2(a)(4) and (6) are constitutional carries significant implications for individuals court-martialed under these provisions.

    Despite many challenges to these provisions, military courts have consistently found that the Constitution allows Congress to extend UCMJ jurisdiction to retirees. For instance, in the 2018 case United States v. Dinger, the Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals (CCA) concluded that it was “firmly convinced that those in a retired status remain ‘members’ of the land and Naval forces who may face court-martial.” Though the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces (CAAF), the highest military appellate court, did not squarely address the jurisdictional question, it ultimately affirmed the CCA’s decision, and the Supreme Court denied Dinger’s petition for certiorari.
    ……..
    Perhaps Flynn’s quick walk back had this potential in mind.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  68. Patterico (e349ce) — 6/1/2021 @ 1:27 pm

    I think it’s pretty obvious to most people what I meant

    Based on your comment I won’t make the same claim for my comment.

    frosty (f27e97)

  69. I now looed up the Big Apple website (the link was already there)

    https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/the_cemeteries_are_full_of_indispensable_men

    The saying has been credited to Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929) and Charles de Gaulle (1890-1970).

    “The cemeteries are full of indispensable people” has been cited in English since at least 1948.

    And it’s been attributed to “Rivarol”

    Who’s that?

    Antoine de Rivarol (1753-1801) Somewhat of a fraud.

    But I can’t find even any other claim that he said (or wrote) something like that.

    I found a different quote by him:

    https://www.quotes.net/quotes/S/99999

    Speech is external thought, and thought internal speech.

    – Antoine de Rivarol

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  70. Perhaps Flynn’s quick walk back had this potential in mind.

    I would hope that under the UCMJ, fomenting a military coup to overthrow the elected government is punishable by death.

    Dave (1542be)

  71. I now get why all my MilBloggers in my social feed had haterade drinks this morning for Flynn. Since I quit paying attention to him and Trump, its amazing what you can’t get spun up about. Yet, at the same time; only a year ago there were members of the media and military pushing for a military coup against Trump if he didn’t want to leave office. Those that were National Security pundits who were more middle of the road were aghast that this talk would come up not only from retired and honorable military officers, but that the US media did the “Just Asking Questions” sort of reporting the pros/cons or even fever dreaming it in print seem reasonable. The minute anyone, and I mean anyone, whether they are right of political philosophy or left; starts to talk about the use of a military coup. They are irrational and deserve all the scorn that rational classical liberal and democratic government folks can follow deserve to heap on them.

    This isn’t about whataboutism, rather this seems like in the past decade an honest effort by political pundits and media pundist to move the overton window so fast that the body politic folks (aka the voters) don’t seem to want to fight or even recognize what is going on till its too late.

    Honestly, if you see anyone advocating for a military coup in this nation. They need to be ridiculed and have their commentary fisked till the end of time. The minute you say we need a coup, you admit that the system as defined is broken beyond all hope, that the only way to seemingly restore “order” is by the force of arms, that you are willing to bring pain to everyone in this nation because of political differences you have gone to the extremes towards. You have failed in your arguments for the political process and are a danger.

    Charles (8ffdf1)

  72. Charles (8ffdf1) — 6/1/2021 @ 3:34 pm

    Yet, at the same time; only a year ago there were members of the media and military pushing for a military coup against Trump if he didn’t want to leave office.

    It’s obvious that this was a different situation that is so obviously different that it obviously meets a different standard.

    frosty (f27e97)

  73. Yet, at the same time; only a year ago there were members of the media and military pushing for a military coup against Trump if he didn’t want to leave office.

    This is backward. Had Trump refused to leave office, the person executing the coup would be Trump, not the military refusing his demands. The appropriate military response would be disregarding his orders in that situation because they would be illegal and unconstitutional.

    Paul Montagu (a05eda)

  74. It’s hard to take these any of America’s military blowhards seriously anymore. They live for war; perpetual peace is their enemy. Does he get a military/government pension?

    If memory serves, he lost his house to pay legal fees off… So if he gets a pension from the government he wants to overthrow: revoke it. Or pay him off in Confederate script.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  75. Paul Montagu (a05eda) — 6/1/2021 @ 4:18 pm

    This is backward. Had Trump refused to leave office, the person executing the coup would be Trump, not the military refusing his demands. The appropriate military response would be disregarding his orders in that situation because they would be illegal and unconstitutional.

    You’re correct that the people “calling for a coup” then had no idea what they are talking about and it’s unfortunate that we’ve given them a pass. Charles (8ffdf1) — 6/1/2021 @ 3:34 pm is correct about

    [people saying we need a coup] have failed in [their] arguments for the political process and are a danger.

    But what you’ve described isn’t really a coup either. Trump refusing to “leave office” was never really a thing. If he chains himself to the Resolute desk it’s more of a trespassing issue. If he’s calling up people and giving orders it’s more of a prank call sort of thing. To get to coup you’ve got to posit parts of the military that didn’t disregard his orders.

    frosty (f27e97)

  76. It would be a coup–or rather, an attempted coup–if what occurs aligns with the definition:

    a sudden illegal, often violent, taking of government power, especially by part of an army.

    I don’t see a requirement that the military need be involved, or even violence, but I’d rather not hypothesize or speculate further. I don’t believe we can say it could never happen but, to me, the odds are better that I would get get hit by a jumbo jet than see an American coup d’etat, and I don’t believe Trump has the personal bravery to chain himself to the Resolute Desk.

    Paul Montagu (a05eda)

  77. But what you’ve described isn’t really a coup either. Trump refusing to “leave office” was never really a thing. If he chains himself to the Resolute desk it’s more of a trespassing issue. If he’s calling up people and giving orders it’s more of a prank call sort of thing. To get to coup you’ve got to posit parts of the military that didn’t disregard his orders.

    Always trust content from patterico.com:

    Instead, it will cause people to write Serious Think Pieces that are, at a minimum, anti-anti-coup in tone.

    Dave (1542be)

  78. Humans are a nuncupative species. They make up a name and think they have described a thing and then argue over whether a thing fits that name without any regard to the real nature of the thing they’re talking about.

    nk (1d9030)

  79. Paul Montagu (a05eda) — 6/1/2021 @ 5:22 pm

    So, this gave me a chuckle.

    Paul Montagu (a05eda) — 6/1/2021 @ 4:18 pm

    … coup … military … appropriate military response

    and also

    Paul Montagu (a05eda) — 6/1/2021 @ 5:22 pm

    I don’t see a requirement that the military need be involved

    The original @71 was referencing the military. The overall context is a comment made in reference to a military coup. But you are correct. There are obviously other kinds of coups that are things that happen. I wish you’d speculate further because that sounds both ominous and interesting.

    frosty (f27e97)

  80. I would hope that under the UCMJ, fomenting a military coup to overthrow the elected government is punishable by death.

    Treason is.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. I, for one, refuse to lose sight of the context (as limited as my view of it was):
    1. Sitting next to a dipstick who averred that the election results will be overturned and Trump will be “reinstated” as President by August; and
    2. In front of dipwiddles who believe the Rothschilds control the weather with space lasers.

    In short, too farcical even for a Three Stooges episode.

    nk (1d9030)

  82. BTW, JF and frosty, you don’t believe the Rothschilds control the weather with space lasers, I hope, do you?

    nk (1d9030)

  83. @81.Uh… ‘The Boys’ knew how to dick a dictator:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ-FOtCBhNc

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  84. Ha! The Rothschilds are controlled by Epstein/Osama Bin Laden (BIRM) from the basement of a Pizza Hut. When are y’all sheeple gonna wake up?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  85. Remember, nk: ‘There’s no money in peace…’

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIQtGRzc7yo

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  86. nk (1d9030) — 6/1/2021 @ 6:20 pm

    Honest questions deserve honest answers. I don’t “believe” “the Rothschilds” “control” “the” “weather” “with” “space” “lasers”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  87. So the grammarian’s wife had just given birth and all the relatives called to ask “Is it a boy or a girl” and to all he replied “Yes”.

    nk (1d9030)

  88. nk (1d9030) — 6/1/2021 @ 6:56 pm

    That works as a computer science joke too.

    frosty (f27e97)

  89. “That works as a computer science joke too.”

    At great expense and with the latest technology, the military developed an advanced AI predictive computer. Once activated, the general in charge asked it the first question:

    “Will there be peace or war?”

    To which the computer responded “yes”.

    Confused, the general asked “Yes, what?”

    To which the computer responded “Yes, sir!”

    Davethulhu (69e65f)

  90. Paul,

    Even if Trump had chained himself up to the desk or a bed in the mansion like an protester could do to a tree or a business. It isn’t the military’s job to take him away. That comes to the US Marshal service, US Secret Service, or some other form of the police forces in the federal government to remove him from the mansion. There are some things that are in the US Code and to an extent laid out in the US Constitution on how and what would happen next. There are some open ended clauses that could give Congress the power to take charge and remove him or entitle the VP to assume command and order the police elements of the executive branch to remove him. No one has explored those areas of the politics, short of fun drinking games or BS lectures in political philosophy classes, because we have never needed to do so. The US has always prided itself on the bloodless, civil, and safe turn over of power between elections.

    Read the linked article that I provided in my first comment. It was literally suggesting that the US Military on their own draft plans and go about storming the White House both from recently serving US Military officers (one of whom is famous for writing a history on counter-insurgency in Malay compared to Vietnam). The whole op-ed was like some bad B-grade action film. Delta Force or US Army Rangers would fast rope into the White House, go and find Trump and remove him from there if he chose not to leave the office with all the rest of the administration officials. Can you even grasp for any moment, what that would look like on the world media? The US one of the most stable democracies in the world, having to send military troops into secure the White House from a president and say that it had to be done for the safety and security of the nation and world? Who would really be in charge would be the next set of questions. Is it the politician(s) the military says is in charge or is it really the military. The slope is so slippery and easy to fall down.


    Again, anyone who advocates for violence of a coup or a popular uprising against the agreed to election norms; needs to be ridiculed. They need to be called out for their lack of understand, logic, and ability to debate their views in the public square. They are dangerous to our representative republic and democracy on a whole, whether its the right side of the political philosophy or the right side.

    Charles (8ffdf1)

  91. The original @71 was referencing the military.

    It was, and I said that it wouldn’t be a coup to remove a chained-to-the-desk Trump, because the person attempting to overthrow our government would be Trump, not the military, but I do agree with Charles’ follow-up comment. There are other agencies who could unshackle a recalcitrant former guy without involving the military.

    Paul Montagu (a05eda)

  92. Off-topic: Dem cruises to victory in NM 1st district special election, outperforming the 2020 result by a few %.

    Dave (1542be)

  93. Off-topic: Dem cruises to victory in NM 1st district special election, outperforming the 2020 result by a few %.

    It was a Democrat district and has been for some time. She was also running against a Republican, an independent Republican and a Libertarian (which is meaningful in NM). Polls had been open for the last several weeks.

    Albuquerque (contained within this district) is as reliably Democratic as Portland, and contains a quarter of the state’s population. Outside of ABQ, Santa Fe and Las Cruces the state is hard red. Anyone who is trying to claim that a district that Biden took by 23% is some kind of bellweather is spinning mighty hard.

    The 2nd district (south of ABQ) is competitive, and currently held by a Trumpist.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. New Mexico is one of those places that Trump’s brand of politics attracts about a quarter of the voters and repels the rest. Yet another place the GOP will lose as long as Trump lives.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. This isn’t a call for a coup. It’s a call for a putsch. There’s a difference.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. @95. ‘Putsch. Putsch from Swiss-German “knock”, is another word for coup, used for the 1920 Kapp Putsch and other coups in Weimar Germany such as the Küstrin Putsch and the failed 1923 Beer Hall Putsch by Adolf Hitler. The 1961 Algiers Putsch and the 1991 August Putsch also use the term.’ – source, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d’état

    “What difference does it make?” – Hillary Clinton, 2013

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  97. Anyone who is trying to claim that a district that Biden took by 23% is some kind of bellweather is spinning mighty hard.

    Sigh.

    The so-called Republican ran on an anti-crime message. If the Dems had shown weakness to those attacks, it would have been a big deal. They didn’t.

    Dave (1542be)

  98. The right needs the military to join in as hitler found out the hard way in 1923 for a successful coup. While most officers are conservative by nature very few are populists. No 7 days in may from the generals in are military who detested trump and prefer democrats who spend the money they want. The left does not need the military they just need to take over the democrat party from the corporate establishment democrats. The deep corporate/government state knows this and so far has countered the left with the third of the democrat party that is minority (black women in southern primaries) joining the establishment DNC wing of the party to stop bernie sanders and the left. In 2020 AOC was bringing latinx voters to counter older black women voters (california) By 2024 AOC will be able to counter the establishment with millennial voters and latinx voters.

    asset (1b445c)

  99. Dave (1542be) — 6/1/2021 @ 5:24 pm

    that are, at a minimum, anti-anti-coup in tone.

    What does it mean to be anti-anti-coup? Is that like -(-1)) = 1 or more like antidisestablishmentarianism? Or is it something else? More of a know it when you see it sort of thing?

    frosty (f27e97)

  100. “You may wonder,” the Commander had continued, “why we take such precautions against the Benevolent Society of Assassins. It is, after all, their sworn duty to attempt to assassinate the Autarch every five years. It is the democratic way of doing things, in order to change Autarchs.
    ….
    The rules of the Benevolent Society of Assassins were strict. One man and one man only was permitted to attempt the assassination of the Autarch. If he succeeded, he became Autarch. If he did not—he died.

    Success depended partly on the loyalty of the Peace Administration. If its Commander were inefficient, weak, or disloyal, the Autarch might die. But an Autarch always killed the old Commander, so there was no chance of disloyalty. But inefficiency, stupidity, and weakness were another matter.

    — Randall Garrett (writing as S.M. Tenneshaw), Kill Me If You Can!

    nk (1d9030)

  101. Frosty,

    Anti-Anti-coup doesn’t negate the charge of the anti-coup. That remains negative. It does however alter the spin of the anti-coup. This implies that both anti-coup and anti-anti-coup can remain in proximity to each other so long as there isn’t direct contact. Further study is needed at the supercollider once funding is secured for fixturing to launch an anti-coup at an anti-anti-coup in a field of epistemological closure.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  102. Time123 (66d88c) — 6/2/2021 @ 6:15 am

    So, I’m against funding that for one reason, the risk of creating a singularity and wasteful government spending, well, two reasons the singularity, wasteful spending, and I’ve seen the design of the building and it’s ugly.

    frosty (f27e97)

  103. The so-called Republican ran on an anti-crime message. If the Dems had shown weakness to those attacks, it would have been a big deal. They didn’t.

    Dave (1542be) — 6/1/2021 @ 11:53 pm

    This is simply question-begging. Anyone who’s familiar at all with New Mexico politics, especially in the first district, would know that Moores winning that election would have been the upset of the decade. Crime in Albuquerque in particular has been an issue for a long time and running a Nixonian “tough on crime” platform isn’t going to move anyone’s needle in that city, especially when they know that it’s fairly easy to avoid the worst of it if you just stay out of the War Zone specifically, and the southeast side generally.

    Factory Working Orphan (490897)

  104. Off-topic: Dem cruises to victory in NM 1st district special election, outperforming the 2020 result by a few %.

    This is significant because he did worse, not better, running for an open seat on the crime issue than the Republican did last year against an incumbent.

    The Democrat had endorsed an anti-policing bill in the House (that was going nowhere) but the Republican couldn’t capitalize on it – at least not to win.

    He didn’t have much money, while the Democrat had, and did a lot of advertising. He also didn’t let people know his mother was a Latina – possibly of some value.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  105. o, I’m against funding that for one reason, the risk of creating a singularity and wasteful government spending, well, two three reasons the singularity[1], wasteful spending[2], and I’ve seen the design of the building and it’s ugly[3].

    FIFY

    😀

    Time123 (66d88c)

  106. The so-called Republican ran on an anti-crime message. If the Dems had shown weakness to those attacks, it would have been a big deal. They didn’t.

    It is meaningless in a Congressional race. The upcoming mayoral race will be almost entirely on this issue, with the (Democrat) mayor being challenged by the (Democrat) sheriff.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. He also didn’t let people know his mother was a Latina – possibly of some value.

    He might have hoped the press could do that, which wouldn’t be seen as pandering. They didn’t.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. But, Dave, if your point is that pro-Trump Republicans are at a disadvantage in blue-to-purple districts, well sure. I don’t doubt it.

    But so are anti-Trump Republicans in ALL districts, due to the Trumpist attitude that if you aren’t for Trump, you’re a traitor.

    It’s pretty much lose-lose all around for Team R, so long as Trump is around.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. stay out of the War Zone specifically, and the southeast side generally.

    Well, downtown after dark isn’t all that great either. The southeast varies quite a bit, too, block by block. One interesting thing: car burglaries are quite high in that area, but home burglaries are lower than in many cities. Why? Lots and lots of guns in the homes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  110. I wonder if Flynn has been binge watching the Purge

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  111. I was thinking about going back through all the posts here about Fauci and Trump to see how well they’ve stood the test of time

    “It’s a ridiculous thing to believe Trump is saying this, and also, when he says it he’s right!” has historically been the cult’s defense of Trump

    Strange thing I learned about Trump early on. Reports would come out saying Trump said or did some hugely outlandish thing (Hookers hired to pee on a bed Obama had slept in) and I realized that after that whopper I wasn’t buying anything on first pass or even second. They’d lost my trust.
    On Fauci Trump was reported to be muzzling him. Emails come out a year later that say no.
    Trump was claiming that COVID was engineered in a Wuhan lab. Emails to Fauci show actual practicing scientists in the field had serious concerns and data.

    So Trump said things about Wuhan that media and others found to be outlandish and xenophobic, but it looks like he was just saying what scientists were telling Fauci. Trump isn’t xenophobic about China, he has shown to have very healthy distrust.

    The quote above is based on truths but it does not consider the media and political reflexive counter punch to anything Trump said or did on the virus starting with the China travel ban (except to green card holders, citizens). Pelosi invited everyone to Chinatown without a mask. Italians were hugging Chinese. Trumps first move on the virus was the right one, but it was met with a 180 degree response. Stupidly.

    So Trump will probably say something outlandish the election again. Given the resistance of the Democrats and Dominion to a forensic audit (what? we can’t have an audit of the first time we tried massive changes to elections to see how it went?) I’m wondering why the hurry to cover up and move on. Why not do audits all around and prove Trump to be a fool… instead thay are fools for stomewalling audits, suing everyone because it makes them look like they are hiding something. I guarantee Trump will say something thought to be outlandish and about a year from now we will find out that there was some basis for his thoughts beyond what the media reports.

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  112. Fauci was slightly muzzled.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  113. Here’s a list of Trump statements about CV19. How many of the rest have proven to be correct?

    https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trump-s-coronavirus-responses

    Time123 (53ef45)

  114. I think people don’t really have a good picture of the whole coronavirus universe, or of respiratory diseases in general, or other diseases, because when someone gets an infection, they don’t usually test to see what it is. They don’t even sample, except rarely, as part of some research which is published years later.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/05/20/996515792/a-newly-identified-coronavirus-is-making-people-sick-and-it-s-coming-from-dogs

    When the COVID-19 pandemic first exploded, Dr. Gregory Gray started to wonder whether there might be other coronaviruses out there already making people sick and threatening to trigger another outbreak.

    The problem was that he didn’t have a tool to look for them. The test for COVID-19, he says, is extremely limited. It tells whether one particular virus — SARS-CoV-2 — is present in a person’s respiratory tract, and nothing else. [anything that was lsss specific was considered a bad test -SF]

    …So he challenged a graduate student in his lab, Leshan Xiu, to make a more powerful test — one that would work like a COVID-19 test but could detect all coronaviruses, even the unknown ones.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/health/dogs-coronavirus-infections.html

    The samples were nasopharyngeal swabs taken from 301 people who had been hospitalized with pneumonia in Sarawak, Malaysia, in 2017 and 2018.

    In eight of the specimens, they detected what seemed like a novel coronavirus, similar to those known to infect dogs. These specimens were primarily from children who lived in settings or areas in which contact with domestic and wild animals was common.

    They didn;t like the results, so they used a weaker test.

    So they sent the samples to Dr. Anastasia Vlasova, a veterinarian and virologist at Ohio State University, for further investigation. Using a slightly less sensitive screening technique, she confirmed that two of the eight samples did appear to contain a novel canine coronavirus. Moreover, one of those samples proved capable of causing damage to canine cells, she found.

    Then she assembled the complete genome of the virus from this sample. Its genome closely matched that of other known canine coronaviruses. “It is highly similar to a number of previously characterized canine coronaviruses, but it’s a novel strain,” Dr. Vlasova said.

    The virus seemed to be a combination of two previously identified canine coronaviruses, and also contained fragments of both a cat coronavirus and a pig coronavirus. (These recombinant coronaviruses are common in dogs, Dr. Vlasova said.)

    It also had an unusual genetic mutation, a deletion in what is commonly known as the N gene, which codes for an important structural protein. This deletion has not been documented in other canine coronaviruses, Dr. Vlasova said, but similar mutations have appeared in the viruses that cause Covid and SARS. “So what does this mean?” Dr. Gray asks. “Well, you know, we don’t know exactly.”

    This would be the eighth coronavirus known to cause disease in humans.

    The others are 4 that now cause colds (although one of them, or an earlier version of it, is thought by some to have been the real culprit that caused the 1890 “flu” epidemic, and the remaining three are SARS, MERS and COVID (which could also be known as SARS2)

    For all we know, this 8th one could be extinct.

    There is also a 9th one – a pig coronavirus virus discovered in plasma samples from 3 children in Haiti dating from 2014. This was a deltacoronavirus. Previously only alpha and beta coronavirus were thought to be able to infect humans. Like the samples from Malaysia it appears to be the result of several coronaviruses mixing together.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  115. Jan. 22, 2020

    “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

    Thought to be true, and China was intent on selling the world on that. But it could not be contained as well as SARS or MERS because it circulated undetected.

    Feb. 7, 2020

    “It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu… This is deadly stuff” [Trump in a private interview with Bob Woodward from The Washington Post made public on Sept. 9, 2020]

    Said, I think, to justify his travel restrictions with China (which were incomplete and legalistic)

    Feb. 26, 2020

    “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

    Not right.

    Feb. 26, 2020

    “Well, we’re testing everybody that we need to test. And we’re finding very little problem. Very little problem.”

    Not actually correct, although the CDC was sending out testing kits for everone who fit the criteria. But there were problems.

    Feb. 27, 2020

    “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

    Probably true. Farr’s Law of Epidemics.

    Yesterday there were 0 reported deaths in New York City and 8 in New York State. quote>

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  116. 114, continued:

    March 2, 2020

    “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don’t think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?” [Trump to health officials who answered “No.”]

    The health official was wrong.

    https://www.ajmc.com/view/flu-vaccine-may-protect-against-covid-19-infection

    A recent study found that patients immunized against influenza were less likely to test positive for or have serious complication related to coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

    Patients who have received an influenza vaccine were found to have 24% lower odds of testing positive for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), according to a recent study published in the American Journal of Infection Control.

    And whoever may have said soomething like that to Donald Trump was right. Of course, it has only a limited effect, but a vaccine for one thing revs up the immune sstem if the person is healthy and well nourished and may have an impact on the seriousness of an unrelated infection.

    March 2, 2020

    “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

    March 4, 2020

    “Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it’s very mild.”

    Both statements were true. Only the things that were happening very rapidly weren’t being translated into action very rapidly. It was very mild, or at least not hospital serious, for many people. A lot probably depended on the dose, but among the more stupid things done was treating being infected as a binary choice – yes or not, so much so, that in many places they had no qualms about putting different people infected with Covid next to each other!

    March 6, 2020

    “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

    Well, that’s what he thought, and it probably wasn’t very different from what he was being told.

    March 6, 2020

    “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

    That’s a little bit ridiculous, but he talked to a lot of people.

    March 6, 2020

    “I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.”

    Trump was keeping score, or knew other people were, and he didn’t want to let American citizens aboard a cruise ship disembark because that would double the number of cases reported in the United States. Crazy, and they reached a compromise. These cruise ship passengers needed to be isolated from each other

    March 9, 2020

    During a news conference, White House officials said the U.S. will have tested one million people that week and thereafter would complete 4 million tests per week. By the end of the week, the CDC had only completed a paltry 4,000 tests.

    It wasn’t Trump who said that, so it is not like he was the only person wrong.

    March 12, 2020

    “You know, you see what’s going on. And so I just wanted that to stop as it pertains to the United States. And that’s what we’ve done. We’ve stopped it.”

    About the latest date he could say that.

    March 15, 2020

    “This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”

    Well, not quite true.

    March 17, 2020

    “I felt like it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  117. Trump’s concern then was the economy, because he didn’t want to become another Herbert Hoover.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  118. Time123 (66d88c) — 6/2/2021 @ 7:51 am

    I forgot the red robes. I wasn’t expecting some kind of Spanish Inquisition.

    Thanks for teeing that one up.

    frosty (f27e97)

  119. 116.

    Yesterday there were 0 reported deaths in New York City and 8 in New York State. quote>

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/2/2021 @ 12:26 pm

    That is the report for Monday (reported on Tuesday)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  120. about Trump speaking at the Capitol Jan6

    nee possibility:

    https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/the-five-must-see-insurrection-videos

    https://twitter.com/sethabramson/status/1353548651667349504

    Seth Abramson
    @SethAbramson
    ·
    Jan 24
    (VIDEO) Alex Jones says the *White House coordinated the march on the Capitol*, including who’d lead it and where Trump would be during it. If true, Trump—who’d already been told by the Secret Service he couldn’t go—lied to Jones to enhance the mob’s size.

    Seth Abramson
    @SethAbramson
    Replying to
    @SethAbramson
    (NOTE) If you combine the above video with this one—in which Stone (a friend of Jones and a speaker, with Ali Alexander and Jones, at a January 5 rally) says “I was invited to lead a march to the Capitol [and] I declined”—it sounds like Trump was involved.

    Seth Abramson
    @SethAbramson
    ·
    Jan 24
    Replying to
    @SethAbramson
    (NOTE2) I’m trying to think of who in the White House would be asking *Alex Jones and Roger Stone* to lead a march. The number of White House staffers who would consider that a good idea is *vanishingly* small—this had to have been a request either made by Trump or on his behalf.

    Seth Abramson
    @SethAbramson
    ·
    Jan 24
    (NOTE3) This was posted online with a claim that it was taken on January 5 in DC. I can’t confirm that—only that Stone appears to be wearing all of the same clothes he was wearing on video in his January 5 speech. I think those are Proud Boys with him. The plot thickens, I think?

    The interesting thing ere is the claim that Trump was told by the \Secret \Service that he couldn’t go to the Capitol. This is unsourced. And the question is when, and how definite was that?

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)


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