Rep. Liz Cheney Continues To Refuse To Push Trump’s Big Lie About “The Big Lie”
[guest post by Dana]
As we know, the current Republican Party is a hot mess. As the once-grand political party continues to be mired in an ugly identity crisis, Donald Trump, who lost the election four months ago but still refuses to accept the loss, remains at the heart of the crisis. Two days ago he confirmed this by pushing his favorite Big Lie about “the big lie”:
“The Fraudulent Presidential Election of 2020 will be, from this day forth, known as THE BIG LIE!”
Rep. Liz Cheney, who voted to impeach Trump and continues to remain committed to speaking the truth about the election, publicly pushed back on his delusional nonsense:
The 2020 presidential election was not stolen. Anyone who claims it was is spreading THE BIG LIE, turning their back on the rule of law, and poisoning our democratic system.
— Liz Cheney (@Liz_Cheney) May 3, 2021
Trump then released another statement targeting Cheney by calling her a “big-shot warmonger” and claiming that people in Wyoming “never liked her much.”
Because some members are frustrated with her refusal to back Trump’s Big Lie about “the big lie,” Cheney faces the possibility of being removed from her leadership position yet again:
Cheney’s outspoken criticism of Trump has led to some House Republicans to accuse her of dividing the conference and distracting from the party’s goals. Some have recently warned that Cheney could face a vote to oust her from her spot in the House Republican in leadership, although Cheney survived a similar test earlier this year.
House GOP Leader Kevin McCarthy has the power to call for that vote, but it’s unclear if he will do that as soon as next week, according to multiple House GOP sources.
But multiple Republican lawmakers and aides say that Cheney is on very shaky ground internally and whether she can hang on to her post in a secret-ballot election is highly uncertain.
Why a secret ballot? If they believe themselves to be in the right by voting her out, then let them make their stand publicly and on the record.
If the fact that Cheney’s refusal to lie for Donald Trump continues to be seen as divisive and distracting by a majority of House Republicans, then they continue to make it clear that the expectation for members is to publicly lie about Trump and his election loss. The problem isn’t Cheney or her statement. The problem is that Donald Trump continues to push a Big Lie about “the big lie”. Unfortunately, not only are Republicans willing to let Trump’s falsehood stand but they would rather circle their wagons around a proven liar than circle their wagons around a member committed to telling the truth, no matter the cost. This shames the entirety of the Republican Party.
If ever there was a time for a third party, it’s now. This especially as one hears what House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, caught on a hot mic, really thinks about Cheney:
LISTEN: Mediaite obtained audio of Kevin McCarthy trashing Liz Cheney on a Fox News hot mic pic.twitter.com/y08wuv4JDj
— Aidan McLaughlin (@aidnmclaughlin) May 4, 2021
–Dana
UPDATE FROM PATTERICO: But but but the problem is that Liz Cheney won’t stop talking about the election or January 6. She’s looking backward, not forward! We can’t have someone leading the Republican party who keeps talking about the past!
wHy wOn’T LiZ cHeNeY sToP tAlKiNg aBoUt tHe eLeCtIoN? pic.twitter.com/Sg7pqRZ3dw
— Allahpundit (@allahpundit) May 5, 2021
But that’s different!
Good morning.
Dana (fd537d) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:22 amUPDATE FROM PATTERICO: But but but the problem is that Liz Cheney won’t stop talking about the election or January 6. She’s looking backward, not forward! We can’t have someone leading the Republican party who keeps talking about the past!
But that’s different!
Patterico (e349ce) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:26 amRepublicans are fine with people looking backwards and talking constantly about the election.
As long as you lie.
What they cannot abide is Cheney telling the truth about it.
Patterico (e349ce) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:28 amThis reminds me of one those historical curiosities. People usually accuse Hitler/Goebbels of inventing the Big Lie as a means of gaslighting the German population. But it was actually Hitler who first used the term to accuse Jews of lying about who was responsible for Germany losing WW1:
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[8]. In other words, Hitler obscured the lie that Germany was stabbed in the back, with his own claim that the Jews were lying the other direction.
It kind of reminds me of Trump’s triumphant ability to turn the idea of “fake news” which was originally a relatively factual description of some websites that prospered by generating fake but plausible news, usually conservative, into a catch-all insult for any news he didn’t actually like.
As for Cheney, well it seems to me there was some shit she did not want to eat and she wasn’t shy about saying so. If that’s to be the litmus test for the GOP, so be it.
Victor (4959fb) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:30 amI believe there were ten GOPer who voted to impeach Trump and seven (or eight?) voted to remove him from office.
There were plenty of other GOPers who regularly questioned Trump or called out his actions, even though they didn’t vote to impeach/remove.
Yet, none of them are repeatedly on the news denouncing Trump and challenging the party in the way Cheney had been doing. What she’s doing is making things harder for her colleagues, whilst in a position of leadership. She’s stoking needless division within the party, when the conventional wisdom that GOP stands a good chance of retaking Congress in the next election.
She’s putting her interests, ie trying to stay relevant, above the party she was selected to lead.
whembly (446c04) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:36 amThey’ve got nothing but grievance and hunger for power.
Assuming he doesn’t croak first, Donnie will get the nomination, and because democracy is only important to them insofar as it provides a veneer or legitimacy, they’ve tilted the rules enough that there’s a decent change he could win.
It is early, but at this point I’d call it even-money he gets the opportunity to burn the country down. I think 1.6 demonstrated that he’ll take it.
America is the most advanced democracy on earth!
john (cd2753) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:41 am@Patterico and @Dana.
Just to be clear – the “Big Lie” is the idea that Trump won. Right? (which I 100% agree with. Biden won the election)
I’m trying to fully understand the premise before commenting further.
whembly (446c04) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:43 amWhembly, I believe it’s complicated.
People try to use “The Big Lie” in new contexts to associate their opponents with the Nazi. I don’t think it’s an accusation of Nazism, just negative connotation.
Trump recently tied to to borrow the phrase to refer to the theory that he lost the election. Cheney’s tweet was in response to that.
I think Dana and Patterico are mocking him for that but I could be wrong.
Time123 (66d88c) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:53 amThank God Trump isn’t doing that.
Thank God Trump isn’t doing that.
It’s pretty difficult to take these arguments seriously unless you are going to be even more vociferous in denouncing Trump for doing all the same things, except way, way more.
Patterico (e349ce) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:00 amYes, but Trump says it’s the idea that he lost.
Patterico (e349ce) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:01 amThe only thing Trump got right was describing Cheney as a warmonger.
Hoi Polloi (093fb9) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:05 amThe only thing Trump got right was describing Cheney as a warmonger.
Not the first draft-dodger to use the word. The plagiarist!
nk (1d9030) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:10 ami hope cheney can return the party to its big truth wmd principles
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:23 amThose darn conservatives.
BuDuh (7cbd3c) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:31 amcheney as a purveyor of truth, or harris as a taskmaster on border security
which is more ridiculous?
discuss
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:37 amAgain, it is time for a real center-right party. There is more than just Trumpism that was a problem with the dying GOP.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:44 amI eagerly await Trump v Facebook, although it’s a pity they can’t both lose.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:47 am“Those darn conservatives.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/28/new-york-post-reporter-quits-over-incorrect-story-about-kamala-harris-book
Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:51 amSpeaking of Big Lies and those who enabled them:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2021/05/05/liar-liar-big-fat-liar/
Victor (4959fb) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:54 amthose darn conservatives
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/543271-wapost-adds-lengthy-correction-to-story-on-trump-georgia-call
https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-intel-walks-back-claim-russians-put-bounties-on-american-troops?source=articles&via=rss
https://www.businessinsider.com/daily-mail-authenticated-hunter-biden-laptop-images-2021-4
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56810371
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:56 amPeople who continue to support the GOP as it currently stands and refuse to refute Trump’s Big Lie should probably find a strategy other than “Look, bright shiny object!”.
Also, in order for the GOP to regain its standing in American politics, Trump must be purged from the party, his election loss, and Biden’s win must also be publicly acknowledged. Without some soul-cleansing, it will remain its own battleground.
Dana (fd537d) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:08 amI just added this to the post because in re-reading it, I saw that I forgot to say it:
Americans deserve to know which elected officials are willing to go on the record to essentially protect Trump and his big lie about the election. Make them own it in front of their peers, and the country.
Dana (fd537d) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:12 amBu duh and JF.
The point of course is not that the media sometimes gets it wrong. IF that’s what you mean by “fake news”, I don’t know what to tell you. Reporters are humans. Sometimes they get it wrong. Find me a reputable news source that doesn’t.
I am talking about the origins of the term. It was originally created to describe websites whose entire business model was propounding false stories. Not stories with mistakes, requiring retractions, but entirely fictional:
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-42724320
And what followed, as I said, was Trump taking over the term as a way of simply rejecting news stories he didn’t like.
And that reminds me of the origin story of The Big Lie. (See above)
Victor (4959fb) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:12 amDana!
You’re back!!
Promise you’ll never leave us again!
🙂
(Hope you had a nice vacation…)
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:16 amJF, you’re conflating media making and correcting mistakes with media intentionally releasing bad information.
Time123 (66d88c) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:18 am@25 when the media allows a mistake to percolate for weeks or months, through an election, then belatedly corrects it, there’s a difference I must be missing
but there is certainly a vast pro-trump right wing conspiracy that is a plague on the media’s credibility, and I do hope you get to the bottom of it
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:26 amKnow what they call Darth’s Daughter at the sole Denny’s in Casper, Wyoming?
Toast.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:28 amThanks, Dave, and yes, I had a terrific vacation.
Dana (fd537d) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:31 amAssuming Cheney is ousted, I wonder if it will finally convince the well-intentioned hold-outs like Beldar that the so-called Republican Party is beyond redemption?
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:45 am@9
Trump is out of politics. Trump lost.
Cheney is in politics. She won. The rest of the GOP leadership supported and backed her when she voted to impeach.
Hell she won the first leadership recall.
But you have to think, that part of the leadership role isn’t to continually snip at the members of her party and fan the flames.
Pat, I’m on record in believing that Trump should’ve been impeached within 48hrs of Jan 6th, if for nothing else, for dereliction of duty for his cavalier response to that event.
But you can’t have a leader who continually and gleefully engages in friendly fire and has a side business of giving the other side ammunition against her own party.
Her being in danger of losing her leadership position is entirely of her own making.
whembly (446c04) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:53 amOT- but worth noting this day…
From a framed evening newspaper in my den:
Friday, May 5, 1961
Headline:
FIRST U.S. ASTRONAUT RIDES SAFELY INTO SPACE
Subhead:
Recovered In Atlantic;
Cmdr. Shepard’s Capsule Is
Taken Aboard Carrier
After Historic Feat
______
‘Cape Canaveral- Astronaut Alan B. Shepard successfully blazed a U.S. trail into the fringes of space today. His Freedom 7 capsule made a normal landing in the Atlantic after the sub-orbital flight. The historic mission was apparently carried out without any major difficulties. Shepard was reported unharmed. The Redstone rocket carrying Shepard was launched at 9:34 AM EST. He was picked up in the Atlantic at 9:53 AM.’
60 years ago today…
This NBC News report is brief, and worth a watch for younger readers– to see when America truly was great, didn’t need a red hat to broadcast it, fixed its little problems and lit the candle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc0ccOmcPno
“Okay, José, you’re on your way!” – Deke Slayton, May 5, 1961
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:55 amvia HotAir:
Trump: Supporters will be “very happy” when I make 2024 announcement
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:56 am@10
Okay, cool.
Trump’s and his supporters are wrong here. Biden won based on the rules set in 2020.
However, I don’t have any issues with folks wanting to audit the election, or even legislatively fix certain election laws (ie, Georgia or Florida). There were electoral issues galore that any inquires shouldn’t be relegated to the same “Big Lie” bucket. I think Cheney does that at times.
whembly (446c04) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:58 amSome good news for Cheney:
Dana (fd537d) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:58 am@19 Yeah, Judge Amy Berman Jackson isn’t a partisan judge. No siree. /sarc
whembly (446c04) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:01 amWhen Evan McMullen chimes in on how essential Cheney is, then Trump will know he has a problem on his hands.
BuDuh (12caa4) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:04 amOh, Liz; such a drama queen. The truly ‘Big Lies’ in my life time:
Vietnam. Watergate. Iraqi WMDs.
And, of course:
Reaganomics.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:08 amLiz Cheney’s top financial supporters are standing by her despite a move by House Republicans to remove her as conference chair. Cheney, who represents the state of Wyoming, is unlikely to lose any of her major contributors even if she is ousted as an official leader within the House Republican caucus, according to donors who spoke to CNBC.
There’s around 600,000 people living in Wyoming. So who are the “donors?”
‘Federal Election Commission records show… contributions from corporation PACs such as Pfizer, T-Mobile, Morgan Stanley and General Electric.’
All possible/past/future/likely subcontractors to:
Halliburton.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:17 am@21
I disagree.
The GOP need to figure out how to reconcile with each other.
If they don’t, you’re going to have two very happy person:
1) Biden, for one.
2) …and Trump.
Biden, and Democrats, would love nothing more than for this schism to blowup the GOP party as it gives them a better chance to retain power and to pass even more swapping changes.
Trump, because it keeps him relevant and gives him, at the very least, the perception that he’s a kingmaker. Remember, Trump thrives on these division and controversies…
So, when 90+% of Republicans believed that Trump was a GOP President and had 90+% support, you’re not going to purge Trump/Trumpism anytime soon.
The way to reconcile this is to be like Mitch McConnell and Ben Sasse of the world… not Liz Cheney or Justin Amash.
We need politicians whom are deft at threading that needled, meaning being able to “moveon.org” and address the current challenges head on knowing who’s at the Whitehouse while preparing for a take over in the future. All the while without ostracizing the Trumpers and canceling Cheneys/Amashes.
Tim Scott/Nikki Haley anyone? 😉
whembly (446c04) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:25 amIt’s just too bad that the GOP can’t get beyond Trump. But once you slime yourself defending, excusing, and rationalizing everything…..it’s hard to pivot to a new direction and maintain your authority. They’re stuck thinking that Trump came up with the ultimate grift….and they want to use it to similarly fleece the flock. It’s about getting and keeping the plush seat….and not about actually doing anything for the best interest of the country. You can’t kill the golden goose.
If you think its best for the country to continue talking about voter abuse in 2020….and how Mitch McConnell lost Georgia Senate seats….then we just get more of the same. No real ideas. No actual solutions to festering problems…..just more slop for talk radio and the RedState comment section. If you don’t demand better from both sides, then you’re a big part of the problem….
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:28 amThey are talking of replacing her with Elise Stefanik.
If this is the beginning of the break-up of the Republican Party, her piece is maybe too small.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:31 amThe first vote (and evidently all votes on matter like this) are by secret ballot. That gave more Republicans courage to support her
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:33 amAJ wrote
I think you’re way off base. A huge number of GOP voters don’t want get beyond Trump. They want more Trump. Elected GOP officials have little to no ability to steer their supporters away from Trump.
Trump really is closer to the center of the GOP then Cheny or Romney. ‘leaders’ like Paul or Cruz that used to have ideological POV have given it up for the reasons you describe but I doubt they’d have been able to move the need. We can’t know for sure because they’re worthless.
Time123 (f5cf77) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:44 amMaybe she’s trying to lead her political party away from Trump.
Time123 (f5cf77) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:47 amTime123 (66d88c) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:53 am
Actually, the term BIG LIE here was first used to describe Trump’s claims of having had the election stolen from him.
The context is the apocryphal quote, attributed to Nazi propaganda Minister Goebbels, that if you tell a lie that is big enough it will become the truth/people will believe it. That’s how it’s come down in popular culture.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-on-the-quot-big-lie-quot
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:52 am“We need a two-party system.” – President Plagiarist 2:50 PM EDT, 5/5/21
Royalist; the Founders didn’t think so.
Idiot.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:55 amTime123 (f5cf77) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:47 am
Actually, I think she has no strategy, and is in over her head.
But she wants to be honest, at least about this.
She;s not an innovative enough thinker. Mo Winston Churchill, or Abraham Lincoln, or even Rpnald Reagan
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 11:55 amTim Scott/Nikki Haley anyone? 😉
Dark chocolate and caramel; need some white chocolate in that candy bar to sell.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:00 pmLook forward to her being booted out of office for not representing her constituents, but instead trying to increase her profile and get accolades from the leftist media.
NJRob (7e35a1) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:03 pmWhat are the top ten ideological points of view that Paul and Cruz have given up?
BuDuh (dffef1) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:07 pmAn early use of the term “Big Lie” applied to the 2020 election:
New York Times, Tuesday, November 10, 2020 column by Thomas L. Friedman
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/opinion/trump-lies.html
Washington Post headline Thursday, November 12, 2020.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/some-local-officials-are-resisting-trumps-big-lie-sadly-gop-senators-arent-as-principled/2020/11/12/a229df7e-2532-11eb-a688-5298ad5d580a_story.html
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:11 pmTrump lost, but Trump is not out of politics. See Dave’s #32. He’s probably about to announce a 2024 campaign.
So we have your pledge that you will never support Trump again, right? That’s all he does.
Patterico (e349ce) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:19 pmcheney as a purveyor of truth, or harris as a taskmaster on border security
which is more ridiculous?
Maybe if the GOP could get over its Liz Cheney obsession (if Uncle Donnie would let them, that is) then they could band together and properly take the Biden/Harris Administration to task for its horrendous handling of the border crisis.
Many of you probably saw the news yesterday about the boat full of immigrants apparently attempting an illegal sea crossing but ending up capsizing and killing three aboard probably due to the fact that it was grossly overcrowded. I think a lot of progressives view that and say, “See, this is why we need to pretty much admit anyone who shows up at our border requesting asylum, because otherwise they undertake these dangerous crossings led by smugglers and awful things like this happen.” And I think that many conservatives view this same tragedy and say, “See, this is why the whole progressive idea that once someone arrives in the U.S. — even illegally — they should never be removed from this country short of being convicted of a major crime is so counterproductive, because it simply encourages reckless behavior such as this. If we want to stop these dangerous crossings, the best way is not to reward those who successfully undertake them.”
JVW (ee64e4) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:25 pmBiden: “We need a two-party system.”
DCSCA; the Founders didn’t think so.
They wanted more independent representatives. It’s political theorists who talk about the value of a two party system. Not very good when both major parties are off the wall in some way. Almost all politicians are locked into one of the two major parties.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:25 pm53. JVW (ee64e4) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:25 pm
Actually, we will do neither of these two things.
But you will never knock the idea of people’s heads that they have a self-evident, unalieenable right to the pursuit of happiness.
A simple solution: Let people from Central America buy their way in for $3,000, with very few exceptions.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:30 pmThe secret of the problem with the Republican Party is their hardline (and dishonest) position on illegal immigration.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:32 pmMadison and Jefferson (“the Founders”) created the first party system in America.
Idiot.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:33 pmDave #47.
Well, sort of. You got anti-Jeffersonians pretty soon, led by Hamilton
The original method of electing a president of the United States presupposed the absence of political parties – at least anything that extended beyond the boundaries of a single state.
In the beginning, the partied were somewhat fluid. But by the 1930s they were really stuck.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:37 pmAkshually:
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:41 pmDave’s 12:33 is clearly a personal attack.
BuDuh (b4c2d7) — 5/5/2021 @ 12:52 pmBuDuh, I agree, if you’re looking for moderation support your should either email Patterio or put one of the Mods names (patterico, Dana, JVW) in the comment so they see it.
Time123 (f5cf77) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:10 pmThe Biden administration on Monday touted its work moving children out of US Customs and Border Protection custody and in to the custody of Health and Human Services — as the agency’s statistics show an increasing flow of migrants crossing America’s southern border illegally.
Any comment on the latter half of that first sentence you quoted?
JVW (ee64e4) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:13 pmMockery of an ignorant statement is not a personal attack, in my opinion.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:18 pmCancel culture is wrong! Sez republican party unless its liz cheney! To quote AOC They have the money (donor class) We have the voters (trump supporters)
asset (b08956) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:21 pmonce in HHS custody it’s pretty much mission accomplished for the illegal migrant
that this is touted by harris and biden’s sycophants pretty much says it all
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:21 pmThe flow of migrants crossing the border illegally is not within anyone’s control.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:23 pmIt’s clearly within our ability to influence with our policies.
Time123 (66d88c) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:25 pmYou called him an idiot. That’s clearly a personal attack about his intelligence, not his education on the topic.
Time123 (66d88c) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:27 pmMy point is: if someone crosses the border illegally, and is immediately apprehended, it still counts as an illegal entry.
The number of illegal crossings, in itself, says nothing about the effectiveness of border enforcement.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:28 pmJF,
Well if your concern was for the welfare of the immigrants, so that they don’t drown in the ocean or get raped and killed in camps on the border, than having them in HHS custody where they can be properly processed would be a good step.
As for your professed concern that being nice to people crossing the border will encourage more people to cross the border, you might consider that people making that trip have their reasons and the approach dictated by common decency is to listen to their reasons, evaluate them, and act accordingly. As opposed to shoving them all back to whatever hell they’re coming from.
Victor (4959fb) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:29 pmI mocked him by quoting him calling someone else an idiot when he didn’t know what he was talking about (@46).
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:32 pmAs you guys may know, I don’t like playing comment moderator here.
DCSCA quoted Joe Biden and then ended by calling the President an “idiot.” That is perfectly within the bounds of what I believe our host has established for commenting.
Dave then took issue with DCSCA’s assertion about the Founders and repeated the “idiot” epithet, but in this case directed at DCSCA. I think our host would consider this out of bounds.
I would like to believe I have been consistent in only moderating
JVW (ee64e4) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:33 pmquotescomments that were spam or obviously highly abusive, so I don’t plan to do anything about Dave’squotecomment, other than warn him that Patterico or Dana might not be as tolerant.@69 an administration that leads migrants to believe border security will be enforced in a more lax manner will make the easy calculation that an attempted border crossing is more likely to succeed, and will act accordingly
they’re aren’t as dumb as you think
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:33 pm*will cause them to make the easy calculation
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:37 pmIf calling someone an “idiot” leads to banning, then DCSCA would have been gone along time ago. And if someone feels insulted being called an “idiot”, then they are probably too sensitive for life.
This comment is not directed at anyone in particular, but my opinion.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:39 pmI find DCSCA’s description of Tim Scott and Nikki Haley far more offensive than calling someone an “idiot.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:41 pmI think using someone else’s own words in a rejoinder should be fair game.
If a word is OK if embedded in “quote” tags, but not OK if left out of them, I think we’re splitting hairs a bit too finely.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:48 pmRip Murdock and Dave: I’m a believer in the rough-and-tumble world of commenting. All I am telling you is that from my years at this site I have observed that our host takes a dim view of name-calling among commenters. Just be forewarned.
JVW (ee64e4) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:50 pmExcept the Biden administration hasn’t done that.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:54 pmTheoretically, we could reduce the number of people crossing the border illegally by shooting them at the border or by putting them in front of a firing squad when we catch them. The question is what is one’s tolerance for violence against another person. I would not find it to be acceptable if we were summarily executing people for crossing the border and in trade for that, I am willing to put up with some number larger than 0 crossing the border and a less than perfect system for processing those people. I have seen free fire zones at a border (though it was for people trying to get out rather than in and even then people still chanced it.), I do not want that here.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:01 pm@57. Davey, Davey, Davey… do learn to read:
Biden: “We need a two-party system.”
https://www.history.com/news/founding-fathers-political-parties-opinion?form=MY01SV&OCID=MY01SV
The founders didn’t want political parties as they feared factionalism. They never anticipated the two-party system, which presents voters with basically a binary choice and minor parties on the margins.
=sigh= And of course, there ARE more than two parties, as any Libertarian will tell you. assessment stands; President Plagiarist: idiot.
Sammy nails it a #54, too.
Hit the showers. Davey.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:06 pm@68. Meh. Been called worse than that by bums peeing in the subway at 48th and 6th. It’s fun to watch people back the plagiarist-in-chief; reveals an element of their character.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:09 pm@76. You’re kidding, right? Or is it you’d prefer something of a more “presidential” tone:
“I mean, you got the first African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man,” – Joe Biden
Besides, regulars know Nikki’s my gal.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:13 pm@80 thanks for offering your false alternative fallacy
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:17 pmDarling Nikki is more interested in the top spot.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:20 pmScalise backs Stefanik to replace Cheney
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/elise-stefanik-gop
Minority Whip Steve Scalise of Louisiana will back New York Representative Elise Stefanik to replace Cheney, his spokesperson said. – http://www.cbsnews.com/news/elise-stefanik-gop
The knives are out. If only she was “an African-American who was bright, clean and articulate” eh? 😉
“Torpedo los!” — ‘Action In The North Atlantic’, 1943
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:22 pm@85. You figured that out, eh. My vote for her is solid.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:24 pmTed Cruz continues his self-abasement
Sherman, set the Wayback Machine to May 2016…
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:30 pm@53. That was down around Point Loma off SD; it’s a rough spot for pleasure craft on good days and a routine end run round the border fence by water that seldom ends well. The sea is the sucker run; walking in across the border through fence gaps is the ‘easier way’ — they’ve even left markers as pathfinders.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:38 pm@88. Trump looks healthy; Cruz… more like his waiter.
“Mister Trump, sir, you want fries with that?”
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:43 pm@80.You mean the “to cross da vire is death’ scenario?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3KbLBwQFW4
Good bet they’d let a blond, blue-eyed fella w/a ball and glove through.
Theoretically. 😉
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 2:54 pmCheney has an op-ed in today’s Washington Post:
How to remedy the problem:
She is wed to being truthful about the election loss for Trump, no matter the cost:
Dana (fd537d) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:01 pm62. JVW (ee64e4) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:13 pm
It;s not clear what exactly the Republicans are criticizing.
They don’t want to say.
Or maybe they seem to say that more illegal migrants are crossing the border, but they don’t want to say what precisely Biden changed that, according to them, he shouldn’t have.
They speak of “crisis” The crisis was the overcrowding in detention centers, wasn’t it? Or was it something else? Republican members of Congress are silent about this.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:06 pmAlso:
It seems clear that the majority of Republicans in Congress are demanding to be the Party that is required to lie. Cheney and a few others want to be the Party that is willing to embrace the truth – no matter how much it might hurt them. Because once integrity is sacrificed, everything else falls by the wayside too.
Dana (fd537d) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:07 pmAs Biden leads by division and inflation, it’s kind of the GOP to validate my rejection of its slate, probably forever.
Dustin (4237e0) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:12 pm@84 So your tolerance also does not include shooting people at the border? That’s great! But you should know that you are encouraging illegal immigration by being a softliner on immigration.
(I personally find the line of argument that being some level of humanitarian is encouraging illegal immigration to be disingenuous, just like what I said above. I don’t believe that JF is encouraging illegal immigration by not wanting to shoot people crossing the border any more than I think Joe Biden is doing so by having the people who are supposed to care for parentless children be the people who care for parentless children who crossed the border illegally.)
Nic (896fdf) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:16 pmI think, if they get to the bottom of it, it can be traced to Russia. Trump was just roped in and misled. He thought he was going to speak at the rally which was going to be held at the Capitol. The planners of the riot thought that Trump might be persuaded to declare martial law – and only Vladimir Putin could have been that ignorant of the the United States to think that Trump would attempt that.
What happened with the Capitol riot, or what happened with the election?
That is open to the objection that it would interfere with the criminal investigation. Is she not at least aware of that? She doesn’t even say that this is more important.
Be specific.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:17 pmIf Cheney is all about honesty why does an unnamed source need to test the waters for her with the Daily Beast?
Say it yourself, Liz.
BTW, has the GOP listed the members who have been requires to lie along with their direct quotes of their lies?
BuDuh (32287d) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:46 pmWhat, pray tell, is that solution, Liz? AFAICT the Jan 6th ingrates had only one bite at the anarchy apple while Antifa and BLM are on their second bushel with no curtailing in sight.
BuDuh (b3833e) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:50 pmLiz Cheney is noble and principled, and she is laying down a moral marker.
Mitch McConnell is a shrewd political operator, who probably detests Trump but holds his tongue in order to get some good things accomplished.
Neither are wrong.
It’s fantasyland to require a denunciation of Trump before ever supporting a Republican candidate again. And, it’s naive to expect voters to acknowledge they were wrong to support Trump. People don’t like eating humble pie.
If that is your standard, then prepare for leftist policies ad infinitum. It’s letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. (I’m not saying Trump is good, just that good policies can be pursued whether or not Trump is castigated.)
Think of your own families. How many times have you wished that a relative apologize for something? You can wait for an apology that will never happen, or you can have a relationship.
Voters will come around, but not if you rub their faces in Trump doo-doo and force them to wear dunce caps.
norcal (01e272) — 5/5/2021 @ 3:59 pmFinally, we Republicans need to stand for genuinely conservative principles, and steer away from the dangerous and anti-democratic Trump cult of personality. In our hearts, we are devoted to the American miracle. We believe in the rule of law, in limited government, in a strong national defense, and in prosperity and opportunity brought by low taxes and fiscally conservative policies.
Shorter, Daughter Darth; follow Daddy’s lead:
“Give yourself to the Dark Side. It is the only way you can save your friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong.” – Darth Vader
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:17 pma
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 1:54 pm
Yes, he did. They knew what the general position of the Democratic Party was.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-immigration-asylum/biden-win-bolsters-asylum-seekers-hopes-of-policy-shift-idUSKBN27N0Q6
He could have countered that, but he did not, and he didn’t demonize illegal immigrants.
He actually attempted to temporarily suspend all deportations pending a policy review but was overruled by a judge. And he indicated that there would be less of the remain in Mexico policy.
If people didn’t realize by themselves that it would be easier. the smugglers told them. And he relieved some of the pressure on Mexico to contain migrants, by hook or by crook. And he did nothing to give anyone hope that it might be easier to immigrate legally. Not a word about that.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:18 pmTime: “I think you’re way off base. A huge number of GOP voters don’t want get beyond Trump. They want more Trump.”
We’re trapped in an “own the libs” cycle…..and even though we are losing elections and Trump is trafficking in garbage….too many Republicans feel that we desperately need the biggest SOB to remain the focus….because he gives them what they want…..not intelligent governance….shrewd policy analysis….or disciplined leadership…..but that he consistently owns the libs….oh and he owns anyone else that questions his magnificence….like Cheney. It’s like 4th grade. Trump is willing to break anything and anyone for his own amusement/interest. There’s nothing conservative or ennobling about any of it. Yes, it’s my daily whine…..but it’s what I got
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:22 pm100.Liz Cheney is noble and principled, and she is laying down a moral marker.
There’s nothing noble about an heir to a Halliburton war fortune advocating perpetual conflict; sending other kids off to slaughter and be slaughtered while safely avoiding risk [a Cheney family trait BTW] — then profiting from the carnage.
Volunteer, Liz?? Sorry, hun: ‘Gotta revolution, dear…’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps_YWN1mrAg
“I had other priorities in the 60’s than military service.” – Darth Cheney
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:37 pmhttps://twitter.com/pjcolbeck/status/1390030664133750792
This video seems to running around the internet and hasn’t been deleted or labeled as misinformation by either Twitter or YouTube. Additionally the elements of his narrative are being discussed in an actual court of law.
Liz Cheney needs to straighten this kid out.
BuDuh (7fa883) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:42 pmIf the choice is between a party that tries to steal elections by going to court to throw out tens of millions of legally cast ballots, or a re-run of LBJ (sans Vietnam, presumably) I’ll take the Great Society over the Third Reich any day.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:43 pmMs. Cheney is doubling down, and she happens to be right.
So is the WSJ.
She’s made it clear that Trump loyalists may vote her out of leadership, but they can’t shut her up.
She voted with Trump 92.9% of the time, Rob, so it’s not about Trump’s issues, it’s about leg-humping a one-term loser ex-president and going along with his Big Lie for career advancement reasons. That’s neither conservative nor Republican in principle.
Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:47 pmAlong the lines of Trump’s Big Lie, his minions in Arizona are channeling idiot conspiracy that illegal ballots were imported from Asia, so the “audit” is looking for traces of bamboo on them.
Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:52 pmThis is my party, still sickened with Bizarro TrumpWorld fever.
There must be a tremendous list of the many, many candidates that have given such an endorsement.
BuDuh (02ad94) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:04 pm@96 the migrants themselves seem to have a different opinion, expressed with their feet
well, who to believe, that’s a tough one
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:04 pmI got the idea that they were ruling out Bamboo to silence the crazies.
BuDuh (02ad94) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:10 pmThe “crazies” won’t be convinced of anything. You can’t reason with cultish nuts.
Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:14 pmHere is Brakey in his own words. There are two video clips:
https://mobile.twitter.com/dennis_welch/status/1390014544890658819
BuDuh (02ad94) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:15 pmHere is Brakey’s twitter. It hasn’t been active for a while:
https://twitter.com/johnbrakey?lang=en
He seemed very concerned, pre election, that rigged machines could have been used in Florida to give the win to Trump.
BuDuh (02ad94) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:19 pmDana omitted the juicy opening of Cheney’s editorial, where she backhands McCarthy:
(links in original)
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:38 pmhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/elections/judge-az-presidential-preference-vote-can-be-challenged/article_8cd8fa0b-e5d4-523d-8918-ca7bb217dee9.amp.html
This Brakey guy sure doesn’t seem like a shill for Trump and his endorsing GOP lunatics.
BuDuh (714c79) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:46 pmTrump voting scores:
Cheney: 92.9%
Stefanik: 77.7%
Dave (1bb933) — 5/5/2021 @ 5:55 pmcheney: wyoming
stefanik: new york
i mean, get real
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 6:25 pmPay no attention to what they say; just watch what they do. It’s results that count!
Oh wait ….
Radegunda (cc822d) — 5/5/2021 @ 6:40 pmDoes that explain why Stefanik decided that being the Trumpiest Trumper after the election was the way to advance her career?
Radegunda (cc822d) — 5/5/2021 @ 6:45 pmOr why she’s viewed so much more favorably than Cheney by the people who claim to be intent on defending Trump’s policies?
@110 Would you actually say, then, that being unwilling to just shoot people at the border means it’s also partly your fault that people cross the border illegally?
Nic (896fdf) — 5/5/2021 @ 6:59 pmCorrect
Patterico (e349ce) — 5/5/2021 @ 7:10 pm@121 would you actually say, then, that being unwilling to just shoot people who don’t wear masks means it’s partly your fault that covid has spread?
what level of education finds this logic convincing? cuz i need to hit the books to catch up
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 7:14 pmIt’s actually the kind of bullying “argument” our kids encounter every day at our schools, from their teachers, counselors, and administrators, JF. I remember it far too well from my school years.
nk (1d9030) — 5/5/2021 @ 7:34 pm@JF@123 Nope, I just said a minute ago that I thought that line of argument was disingenuous. Your implication appeared to express a different opinion, so I wanted to clarify, as it seemed unlikely. So I will attempt to clarify again: You do not believe that your being unwilling to take extreme measures at the border makes it partly your fault that people choose to cross the border illegally. Is that correct?
Nic (896fdf) — 5/5/2021 @ 7:36 pmJonah frames a couple of issues pretty well, one, that comparing the 1/6 insurrection to the summer rioting is inapt and, two, Cheney didn’t make Trump’s Big Lie an issue until Insurrection Day. She even voted for him, twice, but the riots were her bright line.
Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:10 pm@125 i honestly don’t know what you’re getting at, and your question makes zero sense
there is a spectrum of enforcement options, both at the border and in addressing covid spread
you could shoot violators, or you could have open borders and do nothing, and any of a number of things in between
you get credit or blame for the various outcomes that result
this isn’t a very earth shattering observation, but since you’re unwilling to buy into it maybe it is
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:11 pmMs. Stefanik can use her following statement as an audition tape for replacing Cheney.
All lies. Extra points for Stefanik being one of the 140-some House fascists who voted to cancel popular votes in multiple states.
Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 8:24 pm@JF@127 OK, I’m confused again. There are people who wouldn’t cross the border if we shot them. You don’t think we should shoot them. Do you feel like you are partly to blame if those people come because we don’t shoot them?
Nic (896fdf) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:03 pmobviously i’m playing this game wrong
why don’t you answer my question about covid so you can show me how it’s done
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:14 pm@130 I did answer. With clarity. (unless you are an ELL, in which case google is your friend).
Why is it a “game” that I’m trying to clarify what you think?
Nic (896fdf) — 5/5/2021 @ 9:26 pmShe voted with Trump 92.9% of the time, Rob, so it’s not about Trump’s issues, it’s about leg-humping a one-term loser ex-president and going along with his Big Lie for career advancement reasons. That’s neither conservative nor Republican in principle.
But it is politics in reality.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:03 pmok, nope then
to state the obvious, because unlike the trump policies which biden reversed shooting someone is unnecessarily cruel among other problems with it
you’re not seeking clarity with such a question
JF (e1156d) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:11 pm@JF@133 I am, in fact, looking to clarify what your viewpoint is. Why would you think I wasn’t?
Now, I know you are not a Biden fan, so it’s probably easy to see his actions in the most negative light. However, as a thought experiment, lets say that Biden told the truth when he said that he found Trump’s method of enforcing border policy to be morally unacceptable, perhaps akin to how you feel about shooting someone at the border. If he is to blame for the one who come because we didn’t continue to do what he considers cruel, are you partly to blame for the ones that come because we don’t do what you consider cruel.
And why isn’t industry to blame for hiring them, which is what motivates the people who come for economic advantage?
Nic (896fdf) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:26 pm“Sure, you can observe our ‘audit’ of the ballots, but you have sign this NDA requiring you to not tell anyone what you observed”.
Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:47 pmIt’s yet another reason why the so-called audit in AZ is an unmitigated clown show.
Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 4:52 pm
Every one of these ballots would have to be assigned a voter (even though you wouldn’t know how each one was cast – but you would know in groups of, at most, about 300) Now imagine trying to do thsat in advance of an election. Invent voters ad signatures? Then it is more than just ballots, and very detectable.
There;s just news now about cheating in a homecoming queen election – initial suspicion was triggered by the thought she was just not that popular (her mother, an assistant principal or something at another school, did it)
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 3:21 amWriting an Op-ed in the Washington Post appealing vaguely to “history” and to “children” but not to God, is not a way to get the Republican Party to choose truth, but it a way of getting ready to punish the Republican Party. The Democrats are watching, and getting ready to pounce.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 3:25 amI was hoping that I could look forward to the 2022 midterm elections, vote and contribute to GOP candidates to help them get the majority, with Trump out of the White House. But I’m not sure now. Especially when the House GOP conference is pushing to get Elise Stefanik, a Trump bootlicker, to oust Cheney. What is even more damning is that the latter is rock solid conservative, and much more so than Stefanik. It doesn’t even matter to Cult 45 that Cheney voted more often with the Trump administration than Stefanik.
I’ll contribute to the campaigns of Liz Cheney, Jaime Hererra-Beutler, Peter Meijer, and a few others who have acted honorably throughout all this. But that is about it, unless there is a 180 degree collective change of heart in the coming days. I doubt it will happen. Maybe it might take a another electoral drubbing of the GOP to get it to happen, I don’t know.
HCI (92ea66) — 5/6/2021 @ 4:39 amCan an NDA be enforced to prevent someone from speaking about criminal activity they have witnessed?
BuDuh (c30e4c) — 5/6/2021 @ 5:49 am@134 because nothing in your question is even remotely relevant to the policies in question, and you knew that when you asked it
your ridiculous line of reasoning could justify stopping any and every law enforcement activity, whether on the border or not
JF (e1156d) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:08 am139. BuDuh (c30e4c) — 5/6/2021 @ 5:49 am
It can’t trump a subpoena, but I am not sure about saying anything in public when not giving public testimony. I guess it can’t stop anybody from calling law enforcement, but putting pressure on law enforcement would be something else. I think there are some state laws that limit non disclosure agreement, too.
https://www.taylorring.com/blog/if-you-have-signed-an-nda-can-you-report-a-sexual-assault
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:18 amIt would seem that observers witnessing and tampering with the ballots would not be restricted from reporting it, as that would be a crime.
Lots of arm waiving over this audit.
BuDuh (15a152) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:22 amShould be “….witnessing any tampering…”
BuDuh (15a152) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:23 am135. Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/5/2021 @ 10:47 pm
The NDA is not so strict. It is limited to:
1. Revealing “confidential” information, which is a term for trade secrets. This could be a problem. What if their tests for the presence of bamboo are nonsense? Or anything else they do to detect fraud?
2. Saying anything at all about the audit until when and if the results of the audit are made public. But after that they can.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:29 amThe NDA is there to prevent people from stopping this audit scam before it is completed.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:34 amCan an NDA be enforced to prevent someone from speaking about criminal activity they have witnessed?
No. It cannot even be enforced to prevent someone from speaking about non-criminal activity by government officials they have witnessed. Got a picture of Kelli Ward picking her nose over the ballots?
nk (1d9030) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:36 amThis looks a little bit more like an attempt by Elise Stefanik to get a job (though she might possibly have been recruited by someone else) than an attempt to purge Liz Cheney from the leadership.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 6:44 am@52
Until we know some more, that’s simply a guess.
There’s a least 1.5 to 2 years before candidates start announcing themselves and I’m still dubious Trumps want to really run again.
I agree that’s all he does. But, you will not have my pledge.
I will not vote for him during the primaries.
I will work extremely hard to convince my peers to not vote for him in the primaries.
But to this day, I’d still take Trump over any Democrat governance. I believe the policies being pushed and normalized by the liberal-left are the kinds that’ll have lasting damage/change, moreso than any of the ridiculous bullspit that Trump/Trumpers have done.
My vote is really agnostic to the person who’s running the office… I just want a candidate/party to push my preferred agendas. That’s it.
My belief is that the President is simply a politician temporarily holding a powerful office. Not an individual that we will get some paragon of virtues that we all should aspire too. Presidents has been, will always be flawed individuals and by the time they reached the office, many (most?) are already damaged goods.
whembly (2e3fb6) — 5/6/2021 @ 7:35 amA Democrat weighs in:
https://www.borderreport.com/hot-topics/immigration/dhs-misleads-with-photos-of-empty-processing-facility-for-migrant-youth-border-congressman-says/
So much for that success story.
BuDuh (25c39c) — 5/6/2021 @ 7:47 amPatterico, I think Whembly is a pretty good example of someone that has supported Trump as the ‘lesser evil’ without whole sale buying into Trump as the GOETUS. At least that’s how I’d characterize him based on the last few years of interaction here.
I mean he’s wrong. Trump was the greater evil. But I know if i keep typing he’ll eventually see reason. 😀 I’ll also learn a lot based on his replies.
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 5/6/2021 @ 7:51 amTime, you may have missed my earlier question as I forgot to address it to you, although I did quote you. You said:
And I asked:
Thanks.
BuDuh (9d2a50) — 5/6/2021 @ 7:58 amLike they ever had ten. I’ll give you three:
nk (1d9030) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:02 am1. Legality.
2. Morality.
3. Individual freedom.
4. Love of country.
(It’s buy three get one free today.)
I probably should have asked for examples of actions that they specifically took that caused them to give up on their ideological points of view.
BuDuh (9d2a50) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:06 amBuDuh, Paul and Cruz used to speak frequently about the need to limit to power of the state, limit spending, and balance our budget. They provided little to no pushback on Trump in these areas. Additionally, they were both strong supporters of doing what the constitution said and abandoned that when it came to how we determine what slate of electors to seat. They supported the idea that VP Pense had the discretion to choose which electors to seat.
Time123 (dba73f) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:17 amThey did?
BuDuh (9d2a50) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:22 amPaul voted with Trump 69% of the time:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/rand-paul/
Cheney voted with Trump 93% of the time:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/liz-cheney/
How does Cheney win the ideological consistency test with a score like that?
Cruz was 92%:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/ted-cruz/
I have always thought of him to be the same brand of weasel as Cheney so I am not so concerned about his purported betrayal of ideological purity.
Cheney, on the other hand, has a big task trying to sound an alarm about Trump after her record of showering him with years of love.
BuDuh (5b4b2f) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:32 amLooks like it was just Cruz that wanted to toss the constitution here.
Sen Paul restricted himself to conspiracy mongering.
WASHINGTON, D.C. — U.S. Senator Ted Cruz will intend, along with other senators and senators-elect, to an objecting to the certification of the 2020 Presidential Election results when Congress convenes on Jan. 6, according to a joint statement.
“We intend to vote on January 6 to reject the electors from disputed states as not ‘regularly given’ and ‘lawfully certified’ (the statutory requisite), unless and until that emergency 10-day audit is completed,” the group said Saturday in a statement.
In addition to Cruz, the group includes Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, Sen. James Lankford of Oklahoma, Sen. Steve Daines of Montana, Sen. John Kennedy of Louisiana, Sen. Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee and Sen. Mike Braun of Indiana. Four senators-elect are also planning to object, including Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming, Roger Marshall of Kansas, Bill Hagerty of Tennessee and Tommy Tuberville of Alabama. The four are scheduled to be sworn in on Jan. 3 when the 117th Congress convenes. All 11 are Republicans.
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:33 amFrom your Rand Paul link:
Wasn’t this true at the time he was quoted?
Did you happen to see the video I posted at 4:42? Clearly there are unresolved issues that are just now making it into the courts.
BuDuh (5b4b2f) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:38 amThe issue isn’t about policy or how Cheney voted on matters. The issue is about Trump, who remains very influential in the Republican Party and continues to push what has been established to be a lie: that the election was stolen from him. Cheney understands that if the GOP is to remain viable and has any chance of reclaiming the House/Senate or even the WH in 2024, the Party must purge Trump and his influence from its midst. If not, it will remain the MAGA party where defending and sacrificing one’s integrity to protect an outright liar is the expectation But I think you know that.
Dana (fd537d) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:58 amNo, at the time he said that it was a lie. It’s still a lie.
-Never is a straight up lie. Cases were heard in MI and AZ and in PA the trump campaign withdrew their suit.
-The comment about standing is a lie of omission. Those cases weren’t about fraud, they were about process.
The video is in reference to a case in Antim county MI.
The Antim county case is brought in relation to a question about legalized weed. The problem there was that the local clerk (A republican and trump suporter) screwed up by not updating software and loading the wrong master ballot. Once those were fixed the Dominion software counted correctly as confirmed by a livestreamed hand recount. Here’s a better summary of what’s going on from the Washington Examiner.
The accusation that Dominion voting software was used to cheat has been disproven by the numerous hand recounts that have shown the same vote totals as the electronic counts.
Time123 (dba73f) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:59 am@150 I’ve learned a lot from you guys as well.
I’m not wrong. Just opinionated. 😉
whembly (123289) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:04 amhttps://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-cold-hard-facts-about-the-liz-cheney-saga
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:04 amI’m pretty sure you didn’t watch the video, Time.
I have other obligations. I will catch up with you when I get back.
BuDuh (1c160d) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:07 amThey supported the idea that VP Pense had the discretion to choose which electors to seat.
156. BuDuh (9d2a50) — 5/6/2021 @ 8:22 am
They gave him a role that neither the constitution nor the 1887 Electoral Count Act did. I don’t think they definitively maybe said he had the final say, but at least that could have required a majority of both the House and the Senate to overrule him – or me’d have a constitutional crisis.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/us/politics/pence-trump-election.html
Pence delayed in saying no to Donald Trump, but then wrote a little essay saying he had no right to do so.
Later, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi wanted him to invoke the 25th amendment to remove Trump and Mike Pence wrote another essay saying he had no right to do that, either.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:19 amDid she actually “shower him with love,” or just support policies she agreed with?
Trumpers are taking the position that Stefanik is a much better choice for defending Trump’s legacy in policy — which they claim is what they really care about — even though she was actually less supportive of his policies. What she has done, and is still doing, is publicly stroke his ego. That is what Trump really cares about — and therefore that is what the Trumpified GOP cares about.
The Republican Party platform for 2020 was Trump is great and we support whatever he wants. In today’s GOP, anyone who criticizes Trump and anyone disliked by Trump is bad. It’s that simple.
Radegunda (cc822d) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:29 amBudah, i watched part of it. But not the entire 17 minutes. Look forward to when you get back.
Time123 (dba73f) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:31 amGOP says that Liz Cheney is unacceptable because she won’t leave 1/6/2021 in the past and move on.
Radegunda (cc822d) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:37 amGOP wants Cheney to be replaced by Elise Stefanik, who thinks the way forward is relitigating Nov. 2020.