Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 Vaccine on Pause In U.S. (UPDATE ADDED)
[guest post by Dana]
U.S. pausing on Johnson & Johnson vaccine:
Federal health authorities recommended Tuesday that providers temporarily stop administering the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine while they investigate a potential link to very rare blood clots.
Six women between the ages of 18 and 48 developed blood clots after receiving the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. One person died, and another is in critical condition, the Food and Drug Administration said.
“We are recommending this pause while we work together to fully understand these events, and also so we can get information out to health care providers and vaccine recipients,” Dr. Janet Woodcock, acting FDA commissioner, said during a briefing Tuesday.
The review is expected to be completed quickly, lasting “a matter of days,” officials said.
So just how big of a threat does it present?
The clots are considered extremely rare. Overall, more than 6.8 million people in the U.S. have received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Note:
All six cases occurred among women between the ages of 18 and 48, and symptoms occurred 6 to 13 days after vaccination, according to a joint statement on Tuesday from Dr. Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the CDC and Dr. Peter Marks, director of the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research.
[Ed. I have loved ones who have a wait-and-see attitude about the vaccine, if not an outright heck-no-too-soon-to-know-long-term-side-effects. I suspect pushing the pause button on the J&J vaccine based on such a small percentage of those with adverse reactions will only add to their arsenal of reasons to delay and/or not get vaccinated.]
Meanwhile, a March Kaiser Family Foundation poll found that vaccine hesitancy has dropped:
About 55% of Black adults said they had been vaccinated or plan to be soon, up 14 percentage points from February, according to a poll released Tuesday by KFF. The rate now approaches that of Hispanics, at 61%, and whites at 64%. (Asian Americans were not polled in sufficient numbers to compare their responses with other racial and ethnic groups.)
But the poll found that 13% of respondents overall said they will “definitely not” be vaccinated, signaling that significant hurdles remain in the nation’s vaccination campaign.
Among all groups, Republicans and white evangelical Christians were the most likely to say they will not get vaccinated, with almost 30% of each group saying they will “definitely not” get a shot.
And while the poll indicated that some arguments are effective at persuading hesitant people — such as sharing that the vaccines are nearly 100% effective at preventing hospitalization and death — those messages do almost nothing to change the minds of people who have decided not to be vaccinated.
According to the CDC’s COVID-19 vaccine distribution and administration data tracker, New Mexico ranks as the state with the highest percentage of fully vaccinated population (29.65%). Georgia is at the tail-end with only 15.03% of their population fully vaccinated. Additionally, according to the CDC, 22.3% of the country’s population are now fully vaccinated.
UPDATE: Here is Dr. Fauci commenting on the J&J vaccine:
Dr. Fauci says it's "premature to comment" on whether the Johnson & Johnson COVID vaccine will be removed from the market, and this will be studied by the FDA and CDC during the pause on the vaccine https://t.co/408nMq2HX9 pic.twitter.com/bn1i8asfpL
— CBS News (@CBSNews) April 13, 2021
Paused. Maybe removed from the market. But let’s don’t speculate. Okay.
–Dana
For me, getting fully vaccinated brought me a sense of relief.
Dana (fd537d) — 4/13/2021 @ 9:13 amThe problem is that the j&j vaccine is going to continue to be seen as second tier and government attempts to use this in non-pharmacy settings will get labelled as some kind of discrimination.
Since the government is putting this on pause — why don’t they offer the unused to Michigan? It gives one shot relief, is easier to store, and the risk has been communicated.
I will be fully vaccinated on Saturday. I can hardly wait.
Appalled (1a17de) — 4/13/2021 @ 9:29 amMy neighbors just got the J&J last weekend. Very mild reaction (light headache, minimal aches), and were fine the next day.
Dana (fd537d) — 4/13/2021 @ 9:33 amI just have no words. Clotting risk from birth control pills is 100X higher than this (6 out of 6 x 10^6).
So naturally, political antivaxxers are all over this. Fact is, *every* medical treatment has some risks. One has to balance it against the risk of NOT being vaccinated.
You know, when I was in college at UCLA, I had a poster on my wall I adored. It depicted a woman protesting a nuclear power plant. She was holding up a sign reading “NUCLEAR POWER CAUSES CANCER.”
She was smoking a cigarette.
As for me, I am fully vaccinated, Moderna. No side effects from the first. Second: chills and tired the next day. Back to normal after that. I have checked and my IgG against SARS-CoV2 are super high, as expected.
Stay safe folks.
Simon Jester (b44756) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:21 amP.S. I think the clotting risk from birth control pills is even higher than I wrote.
https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-methods-blood-clot-risk
Simon Jester (b44756) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:25 amThe chance of fatal blot clots with advanced Covid-19 disease are much much higher. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc (After that, therefore because of that) is a basic fallacy so old the name is in Latin.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:30 amThings are not as they seem, Simon. I suspect (without evidence, HA!) that the CDC and FDA are actually using this issue as a way of “getting ahead” of another problem. That problem may be real or imagined, medical or politaical, but is what motivates this strange decision.
There are always pro and cons that anyone may cite to fit their narrative (just as I am doing), but this just serves to add more smoke to the screen that gives cover for clandestine activity.
felipe (484255) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:34 amNew Mexico ranks as the state with the highest percentage of fully vaccinated population (29.65%)
According to he NMDoH, which posts numbers more quickly, 34.8% are fully vaccinated and 52.7% have had at least one shot. Assuming that people get their second shot, that second number indicates what the fully-vaccinated number will be in 3 weeks.
There is a problem though, in order to get authorization for the vaccine, one has to register with the NMDoH, either online or by phone, and only 50-60% of residents have done that. This kind of thing is happening elsewhere, too, and we are going from a shortage of vaccine to a shortage of arms.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:39 amFor me, getting fully vaccinated brought me a sense of relief.
Indeed. My wife got her second shot last week, and so my relief is complete.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:42 amI’m not going to run the math, but simply observe that the people who say these stats are a dispositive case against vaccination have probably taken a very different view of statistical risk when it comes to the chances of contracting and suffering from Covid.
Radegunda (aea52f) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:43 amThen of course there are the QAnon-level conspiracy nuts claiming that the shots are what spread Covid, or some other nefarious plot to pollute our Precious Bodily Fluids.
I like to respond to them saying things like “I stopped drinking when I found out they were putting prions in beer” but that usually goes over their heads.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:45 amwho say these stats are a dispositive case
I repeat my assertion that one should need a professional license to use statistics.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:46 amWe threw that calculus out the door with COVID long ago. COVID kills a miniscule number of those infected, and most of that number comes from the elderly.
But we have decided it is important enough to shut down everything and ensure everyone gets vaccinated, so don’t be surprised when alarmism like this crops up.
Hoi Polloi (ade50d) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:47 amSix women between the ages of 18 and 48 developed blood clots
Clotting risk from birth control pills is 100X higher than this (6 out of 6 x 10^6).
Hmmm. Coincidence? I think not.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:48 amCOVID kills a miniscule number of those infected
The case fatality rate in the USA is 1.8%. That is not minisccule. But it doesn’t end there. Those who survive a severe case are generally maimed for life, a life which has been significantly shortened. Saying that they are all “old people” is true only if you consider “old” to be 50 or so. I know someone who went from being fully self-supporting to a permanent nursing home resident due to this.
Your attitude of “who cares” is a prime reason for the lockdowns since it seems the only way to protect older people from the causal transmission by the young-and-stupid.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:57 am‘
All things considered, that is pretty low. Again, especially when you consider those most likely to die are the elderly with preexisting conditions.
You need to provide statistics and data for this.
And I know several over 50 who had it and was nothing worse than the flu. Back to normal in a couple of weeks, tops. Including me. Aren’t anecdotes fun?
That’s not my attitude at all. I do care. But my caring for this is based on facts and evidence and not anecdotes and feelings. Unfortunately, too many people are basing their actions and reactions on feelings. When that happens, you get knee-jerk reactions like this one to J&J vaccine.
I submit to you maybe the better way forward would have been to limit the vaccines for women in the cohort who have seen problems, but no, much safer (read: lazier and easier) to just stop the vaccine altogether.
Hoi Polloi (ade50d) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:06 amNate Silver, who does understand statistics:
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1381925025964515330
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:09 amfelipe, Kevin M., when I took epidemiology in the Dark Ages, the great Telford Work said this: “All epidemiological models are wrong, but some of them are useful.”
I’m not conspiracy minded on this, but I do think that things have become politicized and magnified in a way that makes me deeply uncomfortable.
I just don’t want anyone to get this thing.
Simon Jester (b44756) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:09 amBack to normal in a couple of weeks, tops. Including me. Aren’t anecdotes fun?
OK, a general observation: Anyone who got this thing after the initial outbreak was at best very careless. The fact that so many did is yet another reason to impose lockdowns since they don’t have the sense to come out of the rain.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:13 amEstimated infection fatality rate from COVID, based on multiple studies comparing seroprevalance and death counts: ~0.003-0.007.
Estimated fatality rate due to this clotting issue: 0.0000008
Estimated degree to which covid is more risky than this issue: 20000x.
aphrael (4c4719) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:13 am> Anyone who got this thing after the initial outbreak was at best very careless.
untrue, alas.
as an example: we have documented cases, after the initial outbreak, of people who live in high rise apartment buildings contracting it because of a plumbing fault that allowed aerosols from fecal matter to travel from apartment to apartment.
it’s really difficult to attribute that infection to carelessness on the part of the person who *contracted* it.
aphrael (4c4719) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:15 amSince the government is putting this on pause — why don’t they offer the unused to Michigan? It gives one shot relief, is easier to store, and the risk has been communicated.
Yeah, get that idea past “Detroit/Flint”, “Dearborn”, the UAW and the Whuck Fitmer brigades. The latter 2 will give you the Indiana Ted Cruz salute.
On the other hand, India may be all ears and a few things more. (Your welcome, not-Haley campaign researchers).
urbanleftbehind (fd4b58) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:16 amI submit to you maybe the better way forward would have been to limit the vaccines for women in the cohort who have seen problems
I do agree this would be less bad, but an even safer thing to do would be to ban birth control pills. Not that I think we should, but if “safety” is the sole consideration it’s pretty obvious.
What we have here is a bureaucratic reaction, same as occurred in Europe over Astra-Zeneca, not a scientific one. A decision made out of fear.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:17 amulb, that link is flagged by my browser AND by my tracking cookie filter.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:19 amit’s really difficult to attribute that infection to carelessness on the part of the person who *contracted* it.
Sorry.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:20 amAnyoneManyOTOH, I an certain that I did everything reasonable to avoid getting Covid, and I avoided getting Covid. The people I know who did get it were either careless or put in a position where they could not be as careful as they liked (e.g. the TX utility failure).
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:22 amI wonder, small as that number is within those 2 cohorts (J and J y Birth Control), if this is a cohort that is “hot to trot”
urbanleftbehind (fd4b58) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:23 amThink Camp of the Saints on a Nude Beach, that’s probably why, Kev.
urbanleftbehind (fd4b58) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:25 amCOVID ‘Long Haulers’: Long-Term Effects of COVID-19
…….
According to the CDC, the most common lasting symptoms are fatigue, shortness of breath, cough, joint pain and chest pain. Other issues include cognitive problems, difficulty concentrating, depression, muscle pain, headache, rapid heartbeat and intermittent fever.
….
A bad case of COVID-19 can produce scarring and other permanent problems in the lungs, but even mild infections can cause persistent shortness of breath — getting winded easily after even light exertion.
Lung recovery after COVID-19 is possible, but takes time. Experts say it can take months for a person’s lung function to return to pre-COVID-19 levels……
SARS-CoV-2 infection can leave some people with heart problems, including inflammation of the heart muscle. In fact, one study showed that 60% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had signs of ongoing heart inflammation, which could lead to the common symptoms of shortness of breath, palpitations and rapid heartbeat. This inflammation appeared even in those who had had a mild case of COVID-19 and who had no medical issues before they got sick.
…….Before and after people become ill with COVID-19, they might lose their sense of smell or taste entirely, or find that familiar things smell or taste bad, strange or different.
For about a quarter of people with COVID-19 who have one or both of these symptoms, the problem resolves in a couple of weeks. But for most, these symptoms persist. Though not life-threatening, prolonged distortion of these senses can be devastating and can lead to lack of appetite, anxiety and depression. Some studies suggest that there’s a 60% to 80% chance that these people will see improvement in their sense of smell within a year.
Neurologist Arun Venkatesan, M.D., Ph.D., says, “Some individuals develop medium to long-term symptoms following COVID infection, including brain fog, fatigue, headaches and dizziness. The cause of these symptoms is unclear but is an active area of investigation.”
Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, or POTS, is a condition that affects blood circulation, and people who have survived COVID-19 may be more vulnerable to it. Tae Chung, M.D., who specializes in physical medicine and rehabilitation, says “POTS can leave survivors with other neurologic symptoms, including continuing headache, fatigue, brain fog, difficulties in thinking or concentrating, and insomnia.
Even in patients without POTS, persistent post-COVID-19 insomnia, or “COVID-somnia” is an increasingly common complaint among COVID-19 survivors.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:29 am……..
The relationship between COVID-19 and diabetes, especially type 2 diabetes, is complex. Type 2 diabetes is a risk factor for serious cases of COVID-19, and some survivors of the illness seem to be developing type 2 diabetes signs after they recover from COVID-19.
……..
Heart inflammation after COVID-19 is a concern, especially among young athletes returning to their sports after a mild or even asymptomatic case of the coronavirus. …..
………
Headings removed.
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/yes-your-birth-control-could-make-you-more-likely-to-have-a-blood-clot/
Taking the low end stat (1 in 10,000 in a given year) as a basic number for young women NOT on the pill, this says that 1 in 520,000 will have a blood clot in any given week. Like the week after getting a shot. Or 6 in 3 million, which is pretty much the rate being quoted.
Post hoc bullpucky.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:30 amI had an idea.
This occurred also with the Astra Zeneca vaccine. It’s almost paradoxical because the immune system attacks platelets, and at first they were saying the effect is the opposite because that should cause more bleeding,but in some that has not been accepted yet by the scientific consensus, but which somebody probably does have an idea, but doesn’t easily get into press reports, it causes blood clots.
Here are some clues:
https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/13/researchers-search-for-answers-in-puzzle-of-blood-clots-and-covid-vaccines-and-see-some-clues
There’s about a one in a million chance of some clotting, (maybe higher in a smaller effected group, because it seems to occur only in menstruating women, at least for J&J) and around maybe 35% of them are very serious, which is not enough for clinical trials to pick up, especially since the occurrence of just a few can be attributed to chance, and some incidents of clotting occur all the time for various reasons.
Now I read that this problem also occurs with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine — and that gives me an idea.
I recall that blood clotting is also a symptom of a Covid19 infection In fact, in some people,a fatal heart attack is the first symptom that comes to medical attention (although the person may have been suffering somewhat from Covid19 before)
It can’t be something peculiar to the Astra Zeneca vaccine. It’s not the adenovirus carrier, which is different in the Astra Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines. And all that tells me that this could be true of any Covid19 vaccine. Some part of the virus which is duplicated by the vaccine, combined with some rare genetic variation in certain individuals, could be the culprit. It’s just maybe not been picked up by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because maybe they’re not looking for it. Unless there’s more of the virus duplicated in the DNA vaccines than the RNA vaccines.
On the one hand they say no, it doesn’t show up with Pfizer and Moderna. But I don’t completely trust them, so I’d like to check multiple sources. Again, blood clotting is a symptom of Covid19 itself. On the other hand, that occurs with many inflammatory diseases and may have a completely, or mostly completely, different cause.
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-report/new-cause-of-covid-19-blood-clots-identified
Someone who knows more may get an idea.
Also on that statnews web page:
But the web site doesn’t explain the causal mechanism further, when it occurs with heparin, beyond saying that high levels of antibodies to platelet factor 4 are reported both here and also, “infrequently,” after treatment with heparin.
If they figure out what it is in the vaccine that’s causing it, and act upon it (which is a big question) they could make another vaccine that avoids that possibility. Unless Pfizer and Moderna are already there.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:34 amI completely agree!
felipe (484255) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:35 amThere’s no right answer. Imagine the FDA was less forthcoming about a risk from a vaccine. That would leak. It would be called a cover up. The GOP would demand investigations. Russian trolls would say it proves American vaccines are dangerous and you can’t trust the government. Any effort to say ‘it’s not that serious a risk’ would be lost in the noise.
Right now, biden’s admin and the FDA are disclosing too much, too cautious. That actually reinforces the idea that you can trust the vaccines they let us take. It’s obviously not the right policy with perfect knowledge, but politically I think it’s… well… not as dumb as it sounds.
We’re approaching the time when we’re asking people who aren’t sure they want the vaccine to take it. Lots of people are saying ‘no’ or ‘meh’. Trust is a bigger battleground than access.
Dustin (4237e0) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:40 amFile under: It’s always something.
I partially remember reading that nuns, as a group, suffer the highest incidence of ovarian/uterine cancer.
File under: Uncharitable thoughts
“use it or lose it?”
felipe (484255) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:43 amIncidentally, there’s also been a report of someone getting Covid19 three weeks after getting the J&J vaccine.
The J&J is single dose because it went through clinical trials that way, but is not as effective as a single dose of Pfizer or Moderna (which went through trials with two doses spaced as closely together as possible while still having a booster effect.
The companies involved strategized as to what could get them approved the soonest, although, after Trump came under political attack for possibly pushing vaccines too fast, they strategized so that the FDA wouldn’t be asked to approve anything before November 3, and they resisted any attempt by the Trump Administration to combat terms and conditions set by the FDA that necessarily pushed the approval date past Election Day. (They didn’t take account of early voting or expect that Trump would dispute the election for weeks.)
It’s a known fact that a separation of several months improves ultimate immunity but Pfizer and Moderna were looking to get he clinical trials over as soon as possible (and, later, as soon as possible after Election Day without coming up for approval earlier.)
Another thing that has been found our: If someone was infected once, the vaccine acts as a booster shot, and a second booster confers no additional immunity, at least on the 3-4 week schedule.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:45 am34. felipe (484255) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:43 am
Not exactly the right words.
The same thing is true about breast cancer, and it may be related to not completing at least one pregnancy.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:47 amKevin M – I think it’s fair to say *most*, even, at least in the US. The TX utility failure is a good counterexample, though, as are the fire refugees in California last fall.
Today i’m super irritated at the news that a lot of places aren’t letting refugees in from the St. Vincent volcano (or even *onto the boats*) unless they’ve been vaccinated. Only about 10% of the country has, and what are the rest supposed to do?
I’m as pro-vacc as it gets, and as covid-risk-intolerant as it gets, and this still strikes me as insane. Under these circumstances you reluctantly accept the risk and try to mitigate it.
aphrael (4c4719) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:51 amSimon Jester (b44756) — 4/13/2021 @ 10:21 am
If this only affects women on the pill – and that is quite possible – all 6 cases mentioned are women of an age to take the pill, it’s more like 6 x 10^5. Maybe higher than 6 x 10^5 because a lot of the people who got the vaccine were elderly.
Moderna was trying to make the odds of approval as high as possible. It may be stronger than needed.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:57 amThere’s no right answer. Imagine the FDA was less forthcoming about a risk from a vaccine. That would leak. It would be called a cover up.
The proper response would be:
“We have received reports of a few blood clots after getting the J&J vaccine. Six in 4 million vaccines given, to be exact. This is actually lower than the natural occurance of blood clots in the same cohort of individuals, so we are unsure what it means; perhaps nothing. We urge all individuals to get vaccinated with whatever vaccine is available to them, as the risk of death from Covid-19 is 1 in 50.”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:02 pmMaybe higher than 6 x 10^5 because a lot of the people who got the vaccine were elderly.
Most of the “elderly” (people over 65) got vaccinated before J&J was approved.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:04 pmThe TX utility failure is a good counterexample
I have a friend (in her 30s) who got Covid right after that and thinks her search for water led to taking chances.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:06 pmI’m as pro-vacc as it gets, and as covid-risk-intolerant as it gets
I would think so, if not for yourself, for others in your community. Oddly, I’m part of a different, but similarly susceptible community, too, which gives me the same attitude.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:08 pmAnd I have to apologize the Hoi Polloi. My comment @15 could have stood some more editing and was harsher than it should have been.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:10 pmaphrael (4c4719) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:51 am
Well, they could give them the Regeneron antibodies,
which work completely against both the regular and UK variants.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/12/covid-regeneron-to-request-fda-clearance-for-antibody-drug-as-preventative-treatment.html
And just why did they test it against a placebo? This is the scientific process uber alles.
These antibodies are not being used very much, although it is beginning to get recognized. The Biden Administration is shipping more to Michigan (although I don’t know if they perversely, prefer the Eli Lillly antibodies) but they are sending more monoclonal antibodies and more tests but not more vaccines because they are assigned three weeks in advance, and, for another thing, they are afraid they will get wasted because of improper storage, and they never have prioritized hot spots or anticipated hot spots but assigned them strictly in accordance with state population.
They’re not being used as a prophylactic although any fool with information would know they work, and even the FDA will probably soon recognize it, after around five or six months and hundreds of thousands f . and much better than hydroxychloroquine, where it may be the zinc really that has an
Hospitals don’t want to use the antibodies because they are not being paid enough, and all of them, regardless of their technical status focus on their bottom line.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:18 pmI’ve updated the post with Dr. Fauci’s um, confusing comments on the J&J vaccine.
Dana (fd537d) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:26 pmKevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 11:09 am
Which people?
The people who don’t seem to understand it are the people who stopped it: “Federal health authorities”
They’ve been like this for over 50 years.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:27 pmDr. Fauci is trying to predict what other people are going to do.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:29 pmKevin M @40:
Most of the “elderly” (people over 65) got vaccinated before J&J was approved. Good point, bu they didn’t really lower the age threshold below age 60 or 50 until just about now.
The question is what is the age distribution of those who who got J&J?
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:33 pm36, Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:02 pm
You have to multiply that by the probability of getting Covid, and the probability that you didn;t already get it. And then there’s the question of are they hiding anything about the medical treatment of those who got clots? Were they perhaps treated with heparin, which can cause clots all on its own when given to the wrong persons? They did warn against giving heparin to anyone who recently got a J&J vaccine.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0413-JJ-vaccine.html
We’re dealing with the equivalent of World War I generals.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:48 pmEchoes of the 1976 Swine Flu Snafu.
Wait for the pill.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/13/2021 @ 12:56 pmNeedle him; did President Plagiarist really say: “Folks, here’s the deal: you have a better chance of getting shot than getting a clot visiting America’s drugstores today.” Don’t know… but feel free to steal it, Joe.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/13/2021 @ 1:07 pmUncensored Fauci makes me long for someone censoring him. Of course, this may be somebody else’s bad decision that he is stuck defending.
Appalled (1a17de) — 4/13/2021 @ 1:29 pmThe administration’s super caution is so that they don’t end up like Governor Cuomo, appearing to cover up an issue with the J&J vaccine by not mentioning it. Of course, in Cuomo’s case it was an active cover up.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/13/2021 @ 1:43 pmToday i’m super irritated at the news that a lot of places aren’t letting refugees in from the St. Vincent volcano (or even *onto the boats*) unless they’ve been vaccinated
Covidiocy.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 2:03 pmThe question is what is the age distribution of those who who got J&J?
Since it didn’t start until 3-4 months into the program, mostly young folks because the older folks already got theirs.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 2:05 pmOf course, this may be somebody else’s bad decision that he is stuck defending.
He’s a life-long bureaucrat so that would be send-nature by now. See “Nobody needs a mask”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 2:07 pmi’ve gotten used to the president being blamed for such confusion, but it’s a different president now
JF (6fcdbe) — 4/13/2021 @ 2:16 pmi’ve gotten used to the president being blamed for such confusion, but it’s a different president now
It’s still Trump’s fault.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/13/2021 @ 2:32 pmMentioned in passing on the CBS Evening News:
All six women developed clots in the brain. Which must mean that’s the only place they looked, or that’s the on;y place where a significant number of identical occurrences occurred. They must have tabulated clots separately by were they were found.
Of course there’s no reason for clots to materialize only in the brain. Now, it would be most serious in the brain, or in the heart. Not so much in the legs (although you could worry if it will travel) or in the kidneys.
Dr. Fauci agreed that it could be hormonal. He also said people who got the vaccine several weeks ago had no reason to worry. He stressed it was very rare, and it should be 6-13 days after getting the vaccine.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 3:59 pmMeanwhile, Biden is going to announce the U.S. is going to withdraw from Afghanistan by September 11 (which is later than Trump’s date of May 1) The government of Afghanistan expects a civil war. He talked to Putin asking him to de-escalate the sitation in Ukraine where Russia seems to be mobilizing for an invasion, and he still expects Iran to show up for negotiations on Wednesday in Paris. Israel (probably) destrpyed the electric power and the backup electric power for the centrifuges without getting anyone killed. Iran vows revenge (but any “revenge” would be an escalation) and that the train can’t be stopped.
The virtual climate summit will take place on Earth Day and Greta Thunberg is now 18 years old and lives in a second secret apartment with her father and two dogs while her mother and sister still live in the old apartment. They are not separated – it’s just for avoiding protesters. She hasn;t traveled in a year. She attends high school remotely with one day of in person school.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 4:07 pmKevin M, at 42: my immediate community are almost all people who are taking it seriously, and nobody that I know has died.
On the other hand, I was just talking with an acquaintance (with whom I do some volunteer proofreading) who has lost *ten* people. He’s safe, because he’s taking it seriously, but a lot in his community have not been.
He is quite understandably filled with fury at the denialists.
aphrael (4c4719) — 4/13/2021 @ 4:44 pmThere was a possible seventh case reported/
A woman called up the Mark Levin radio show at just after 8:30 pm EDT and says she is the seventh case/ Her first name is Lisa. The blood clot was inn her leg. (she apparently had not heard that in all of the six are supposed to have been in the brain.) She was also probably a bit older because she said she had three grandchildren which would make her likely at least close to 60 years old.
She got the vaccine on Wednesday, March 24, which is now almost three weeks ago. According to the 6-13 dats after timetable, her clot should have come to medical attention between March 30 and April 6.
Her doctors weren’t worried. They were virtually certain it was caused by the vaccine because she had no history of blood clots. gave her a medicine called something like Zareltoe (apparently Xarelto
https://www.xarelto-us.com
Heparin, I know, is given only in hospitals.
I think she’s likely not number 7, but number 11 or 24.
Mark Levin opined that Donald Trump would never have let the distribution of the vaccine be stopped.
He also said the FDA has been a problem foa long time and referneced rare dseases where they wouldn’t let people try things out and said Trump changed the law. *Congress did, but companies are still very cautious)
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/13/2021 @ 6:30 pmSome comrades trust medical advice dispensed by bureaucratic hacks with a proven record of lying, Big Pharma public relations departments, and a media who couldn’t report whether it was night or day accurately.
Others take an aspirin a day for two weeks after taking the shot and continue all the precautions they were taking before they were “vaccinated”, and with eligibility for the vaccine now open to everybody above the age of eighteen (in some places sixteen) shut up about “denialists” and “anti-vaxxers” and put their left deltoid where their mouth is.
I’m in the second group.
nk (1d9030) — 4/14/2021 @ 5:21 amI agree about the “not exactly the right words.” The “use it or lose it” is an actual quote of my sister’s words after she was scheduled to have her uterus removed due to a discovered cancer. I was astonished at her acerbic attitude, and thought better of questioning her about it.
felipe (484255) — 4/14/2021 @ 7:27 amI appreciate you muscular statement, nk!
felipe (484255) — 4/14/2021 @ 7:30 amTrashy Harvard Medical School says it’s true about prostate cancer, too.
nk (1d9030) — 4/14/2021 @ 7:49 am63. nk (1d9030) — 4/14/2021 @ 5:21 am
The chief lie they’re telling now is take any vaccine you can get as soon as it becomes avalable to you – don’t try to choose. There may be some arguments about which is better, but even if you say the sooner the better, there may be opportunities to choose. And another thing that say, unjustifiably, is that it shouldn’t make any difference whether you already got coronavirus/have antibodies or not. Easier for them, maybe, but it is absurd to say this, even if you can’t readily determine immune status.
It is a fact – they publicized this – that the strength of the immunity will be raised by one dose of a vaccine. But a second dose, at least on the regular schedule, adds nothing in that case. They want to standardize everything. Makes their dicta easier to follow.
Their chief wrong is not contradicting or arguing in public with the FDA. Where they do argue is in the financial news because there cpncealiing relevant information is bad, and this is something that can affect stock prices. So doctors can find out more about potential medical advances in reading the business news than the regular news. Online, the distinction isn’t clear.
That’s not an exaggeration. There were lots of “wotness” accounts of the crash of TWA Flight 800 on July 17, 1996 that implied that it was night when in fact the sun had just barely set. (the ones that were honest were probably seeing flares shot up sometime after the crash, not a missile) Also I think the stories of theft of documents from the National Archives by Sandy Berger I think didn’t get right whether it was say or night outside.
That limits the immune response, but perhaps it is too strong.
It’s not supposed to give immunity until maybe from 10 days till two weeks after the injection.
And again, the effect of neutralizing monoclonal antibodies is immediate, when it works.
It’s not the location – it’s the vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine is approved on an emergency basis down to age 16, the others down to 18. (they’re trying to get it down to 12)
Are these ages something real? No, they just were tested under these protocols. The same thing is true for when and if you need a second dose and how cold they need to be. All bets by the companies when they decided how to set up the clinical trials.
Sammy Finkelman (6975b4) — 4/14/2021 @ 9:44 amI see one very positive thing out of this. Women on The Pill, and especially the ones who take it not because they sleep around but mainly to smooth out dysmenorrhea, have finally been told (the ones who pay attention, anyway) by the libertine media that they are more than 1,000 times more likely to get blood clots from it than from the Covid-19 vaccine.
Yes, one out of every 1,000 women on birth control pills is in danger of blood clots. But let’s not cut into Big Pharma’s profits, and by all mean sue nuns to pay for it.
nk (1d9030) — 4/15/2021 @ 6:22 amDisclaimer: I am not a health proffessional.
Occurrence of thrombocytopenia in introvenous delivery of adenovirus is well known, and the solution was to aspirate before injection in order to ensure that the adenovirus went into the muscle and not into the bloodstream. So maybe what happened to those persons who developed thrombocytopenia had erroneously received injections of vaccine directly into their bloodstream instead of into muscle.
The process of aspirating before injection involves sticking in the needle and then drawing back to see if any blood is drawn into the syringe (indicating penetration of a blood vessel)is taught, in administering vaccines. But it has been noted that this practice is not always observed among the most inexperienced. Maybe this rare failure in protocol led to the adverse results?
If the pause in the J&J vaccine finds this to be the case, then the above solution would benefit the administration of all vaccines not yet affected.
felipe (484255) — 4/16/2021 @ 12:46 pmClarification:
Aspirating before injection is NOT currently part of the COVID vaccination protocol in the USA. Injectors, however are trained to deliver the vaccine into the deltoid, but that is not a guarantee in preventing the vaccine from entering a blood vessel.
felipe (484255) — 4/16/2021 @ 12:58 pm