Patterico's Pontifications

2/3/2021

Rep. Liz Cheney Refuses To ‘Cry Uncle’ (ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:08 pm



[guest post by Dana]

The bottom line: House Republicans voted 145-61 in favor of keeping Rep. Liz Cheney in her leadership position. While that’s good news, certainly, I was more impressed by her steadfast refusal to show contrition for… voting her conscience:

Earlier in the evening, Cheney defended her vote to impeach. “I won’t apologize for the vote,” she told the House Republican conference, a source with knowledge of the process told CNN.

Cheney told CNN on Wednesday evening that she does not regret her impeachment vote. “Absolutely not,” she said when asked…Cheney delivered an eight-minute speech near the beginning of the meeting, two people in the room said, offering what was described as a calm yet firm defense of the Constitution.

She also told members that she wanted a vote to be called on her leadership status, which was interpreted by some in the room as an act of confidence in her standing with a broader cross-section of Republicans, the majority of which did not air their grievances toward her.

Cheney issued a scathing statement ahead of the House impeachment vote condemning Trump’s conduct, saying that he “summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack,” and “there has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.”

Instead of applauding Cheney’s defense of the Constitution and showing them what moral fiber and backbone look like, some members revealed what weenies they really are when push comes to shove:

Cheney also fielded several contentious questions and comments from Trump loyalists, a person in the room said, including Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, who bluntly said she “aided and comforted the enemy.” Rep. Darrell Issa of California asked Cheney if they kept her in leadership, whether she would do it again. Rep. Matt Rosendale of Montana engaged in a fiery exchange with her, a person in the room said, speaking loudly and angrily at Cheney.

Both Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy came out in support of Cheney. Hoping to move toward ending the internal warring of the party, McCarthy defended Cheney at today’s meeting:

“People can have differences of opinion. … Liz has a right to vote her conscience. And at the end of the day we’ll be united,” McCarthy said during a break in the midst of the meeting.

Good on Liz Cheney. I applaud her for standing her ground, as well as showing that she was willing to risk her leadership role because of her commitment to the Constitution. It was a risky, but ultimately smart move on her part. She is exactly what the Republican party needs if it has any hope of restoring credibility and worth.

Now, about that other Republican woman, who either causes members to grimace every time she opens her mouth or to look at her in kinship and admiration: Marjorie Taylor Greene lucked out today when McCarthy punted on stripping her of her committee assignments. Instead, he will let the Democrats do it for him tomorrow when they take a vote to remove her:

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, a Maryland Democrat, made the first move toward stripping Greene of her roles on two important House committees after speaking with McCarthy on Wednesday.

“I spoke to Leader McCarthy this morning, and it is clear there is no alternative to holding a Floor vote on the resolution to remove Rep. Greene from her committee assignments,” Hoyer said in a statement. “The Rules Committee will meet this afternoon, and the House will vote on the resolution tomorrow.”

Hours later, McCarthy answered Hoyer’s action by announcing no new repercussions for Greene with a statement that amounted to a slap on the wrist for the first-term Republican and spent more time criticizing Democrats than her past comments questioning if the Pentagon was struck by a plane in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, advocating for the assassination of top Democrats or calling a high-profile school shooting a “false flag” operation.

Greene apologized for her incendiary comments and support for Q’Anon at today’s meeting:

She told Republican colleagues she believes school shootings are real and called them “awful,” and apologized for her past support for QAnon conspiracy theories, according to two sources familiar with the meeting.

Greene’s apology followed a statement from House GOP Leader Kevin McCarthy, in which he declined to commit to any sort of punishment for Greene over her history of incendiary comments. Instead, he blasted Democrats for “choosing to raise the temperature” by moving toward kicking her off her committee assignments.

Anyway, Greene has been cheerfully fund-raising off the drama surrounding her because, as she said in an interview today about Democrats voting to strip her of her committee slots:

They don’t even realize they’re helping me. I’m pretty amazed at how dumb they are.

ADDED: This morning, Greene summed up her politics (and fundraising strategy) in one fell swoop:

Stay tuned…

–Dana

83 Responses to “Rep. Liz Cheney Refuses To ‘Cry Uncle’ (ADDED)”

  1. The contrast between Cheney and Greene is stunning. One of these two will end up being the face of the Republican party and representing it at large.

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. Anyway, Greene has been cheerfully fund-raising off the drama surrounding her because, as she said in an interview today about Democrats voting to strip her of her committee slots:

    They don’t even realize they’re helping me. I’m pretty amazed at how dumb they are.

    And she doesn’t realize how the Democrats are using her as a club to beat other Republicans over the head from now until Nov. 2022.

    Rip Murdock (328795)

  3. Great post and I guess you wrote it at lightning speed.

    I think it’s funny one voted present on Cheney. I am glad she prevailed. They all know she’s right. It’s very, very sad that they are dying the coward’s death every day.

    They don’t even realize they’re helping me. I’m pretty amazed at how dumb they are.

    Greene doesn’t get it. She’s helping the democrats. I guess she’s helping herself too but politically this Greene is definitely helping democrats. They want to say conservatives like me are insurrectionist white supremacists. It is very difficult to support the GOP and say it’s because of Romney and Cheney, and not the cowards and haters. Frankly I don’t support the GOP.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  4. How admirable that Cheney didn’t care about losing her position as much as she did about remaining committed to her principles. What a great example, and one that I wish other politicians would follow.

    Dana (fd537d)

  5. So, one woman had to apologize for her false and wrong comments, and the other woman didn’t have to.
    McCarthy is one terrible House Minority Leader. Can kicked down road.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  6. For just the anti-Semitic crap alone, Ms. Greene had a lot to apologize for.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  7. If MTG was truly sorry she would use her two minute floor speech tomorrow to make a public apology. Don’t count on it.

    Rip Murdock (328795)

  8. If MTG makes an apology tomorrow it will be amusing but meaningless.

    What gets me is that Kevin McCarthy is totally ineffective. This GOP schism problem is just persisting and persisting. He is making it worse. You don’t see McConnell making it worse. The moment McConnell realized it was over, it was over and he was pushing forward. They are all shameless bastards, but you can see who knows what the hell they are doing.

    Trump’s reach is so limited right now. A golden opportunity, a gift, for the GOP to openly condemn him, for all the fakes in congress to pretend they never liked him, for Ted Cruz to just go back to talking about concience. Do that for a month and most of the country will actually fall for it. The page will have turned. It’s not like America doesn’t wish we could do that.

    Maybe a few lose primaries, but Trump is actually bad at that kind of thing. He doesn’t have it in him to affect more than three. He will probably be drowning in legal problems in two years. Just thinking a couple moves ahead, and McCarthy could be a great leader instead of a joke.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  9. If MTG makes an apology tomorrow it will be amusing but meaningless.

    What gets me is that Kevin McCarthy is totally ineffective.

    Makes you wonder if it’s even worth it. Your advice for McCarthy is a gold mine. It’s to bad he doesn’t read this blog. You should send him a letter.

    frosty (f27e97)

  10. It’s sad that McCarthy was able to make the majority of the party cower in fear instead of removing her from her position. She doesn’t represent the party or her state. But 20 months is a long time for her to try and make people forget.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  11. refusal to show contrition

    Actually, the Neocon Darthette looked and sounded quite contrite at that quick, down and dirty presser.

    BTW, Lizzy, how much did Darth Daddy put on Uncle Sam’s cuff to finance KBR/Halliburton, his old stomping grounds– and a source for your inheritance– to service those Neocon ‘New American Century’ Middle East wars? You know the ones w/t tainted water and shower stalls that electrocuted troops?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  12. The base supports greene as liz cheney will find out in 2022 if not sooner. Ever since the tea party in 2010 the party donor class and their corporate candidates have been losing primaries to the populist former white trash democrats candidates and this trend will continue. Marjorie taylor greene is the rights AOC.

    asset (855a4c)

  13. Gotta give Liz this much; she’ll likely survive and out last Kerry in public service.

    If President Plagiarist had any real leadership skills- or decisive balls- he’d fire Kerry immediately. His utterly obtuse comments, rationale and perspective for private jetting to Iceland to pick up a climate award is about as elitist as they come– and why populism in America keeps growing. It’s the sort of thing you’d expect from Homer Simpson… or Trump. Only they’re more entertaining at it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  14. Makes you wonder if it’s even worth it. Your advice for McCarthy is a gold mine. It’s to bad he doesn’t read this blog. You should send him a letter.

    frosty (f27e97) — 2/3/2021 @ 8:37 pm

    I guess you’re trolling, but McCarthy is aware of what I’m saying. I didn’t say he was stupid. I said he was ineffective. Every serious Republican has been aware that they need to call Trump out, plain and simple. This stupid schism is not going to somehow payoff one day when Trump is vindicated.

    it’s not brains he’s lacking, it’s balls.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  15. it’s not brains he’s lacking, it’s balls.
    Dustin (4237e0) — 2/4/2021 @ 1:46 am

    Very well said, Dustin.

    felipe (630e0b)

  16. Trump/Greene 2024

    Dave (1bb933)

  17. It’s sad that McCarthy was able to make the majority of the party cower in fear instead of removing her from her position. She doesn’t represent the party or her state. But 20 months is a long time for her to try and make people forget.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/3/2021 @ 10:23 pm

    Sadly True. Sanity, convictions, and the political courage to act on them have no place in the modern GOP. I’m sure she’ll be replaced by yet another white nationalist grifter with the moral center of a hungry possum in search of garbage and persecution complex.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  18. I guess you’re trolling, but McCarthy is aware of what I’m saying. I didn’t say he was stupid. I said he was ineffective. Every serious Republican has been aware that they need to call Trump out, plain and simple. This stupid schism is not going to somehow payoff one day when Trump is vindicated.

    it’s not brains he’s lacking, it’s balls.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 2/4/2021 @ 1:46 am

    It seems as if elected GOP aren’t leaders for the their political base. I don’t think McCarthy or Mitch have the power to change the minds of their followers. I haven’t seen them make a concerted effort, but they definitely act less like the wind, and more like the leaf being blown around. I think part of it is the deep bench of liars like MTG, Gaetz, or Trump that are happy to push fantasy and a media machine that’s monetized outrage and conflict. Fox, OAN, & Newsmax know that stories about deranged conspiracy theories get attention so that that’s what they push. Their viewers like them, and it builds brand loyalty. Eventually we end up with a Qanon advocate being treated as credibly as McCarthy or Cheney.

    Again, I think safe districts are a huge enabler of this because a viscous liar like Greene can win by motivating enough people who think Parkland was a hoax to take away their guns to win.

    Time123 (441f53)

  19. Time123 (441f53) — 2/4/2021 @ 5:35 am

    You’ve also succinctly described CNN, msnbc, etc., the D’s, and AOC. The bench of liars is very deep and a growing number of people see that the system is fundamentally broken.

    McCarthy and Mitch don’t have the power to change the minds of their followers because they aren’t their followers. “Their followers”, as you say, are people who’ve seen this play before and know they’re being manipulated and lied to. Also, funny story, not as many R’s know as much about qanon as you might have been led to believe. A recent survey indicates this is more widely known among liberal D’s than R’s. It’s almost like it’s a story ginned up by the media to excite the left.

    So, I’m wondering what you think they need their minds changed about? If it’s whether to tolerate an antisemitic conspiracy pusher it might be a hard sell. Congress has a history of tolerating that, there are others in there now in fact, so it might be hard to get traction on just that. It doesn’t help that it fits the pattern of D’s noticing an R is doing something they traditionally do and demanding “principled” R’s do something to stop it.

    Also, people don’t need Greene to lie about the plans of the new congress. They can see the proposed legislation and the can listen to the campaign promises.

    frosty (f27e97)

  20. Ah, it looks like we are developing the new No Nothing Party, the ones who claim to Know Nothing about QAnon. McCarthy just denied knowing anything about it. Last August he denounced them, so it’s been a kind of downhill slide:

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/02/kevin-mccarthy-qanon-marjorie-taylor-greene-liz-cheney-vote-space-laser.html

    Of course he might just be getting old and forgetful.

    Victor (4959fb)

  21. Frosty, this part of your comment isn’t accurate:

    It’s almost like it’s a story ginned up by the media to excite the left.

    There might be more people on the left that’s heard of it. But it’s been a growing theory on the right.

    So, I’m wondering what you think they need their minds changed about?

    How about; A dishonest conspiracy theorist shouldn’t be granted institutional power in the GOP.

    You’ve also succinctly described CNN, msnbc, etc., the D’s, and AOC. The bench of liars is very deep and a growing number of people see that the system is fundamentally broken.

    Look” said the possum as it spews garbage on the lawn. “It’s not fair that you stop what when the squirrels get in the trash also.

    Time123 (441f53)

  22. I especially like the comment directed at Cheney about aiding and comforting the enemy. If the Democrats are in fact “the enemy”, then what illegal, unethical, or immoral actions won’t Rosendale defend in the spirit of raw partisanship? One might disagree with the conclusion that Trump incited the storming of the Capitol, but few can argue that he didn’t light the match and then did nothing when the fire began to burn. That coupled with his unwillingness to carry out the election law….are sufficient cause for impeachment. Stop the game playing, Rosendale, and honor your oath to the Constitution….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  23. Time123 (441f53) — 2/4/2021 @ 6:58 am

    Frosty, this part of your comment isn’t accurate:

    It’s almost like it’s a story ginned up by the media to excite the left.

    Based on what? Your feelings? Did you read the part of the article about

    Those who get their election and political news mainly from The New York Times (59%), MSNBC (49%) or NPR (39%) are most likely to say they’ve heard or read at least a little about QAnon. And 7% of New York Times readers say they’ve heard or read a lot – the highest share of any group.

    There’s a bit in the article on this. But you think the press reporting is accurate and I don’t. That’s about all either of us have on that.

    There might be more people on the left that’s heard of it. But it’s been a growing theory on the right.

    And awareness has been growing theory on the left at the same pace. There’s no evidence that R’s are seeking out information about qanon on their own. The growing awareness of it is also not growing acceptance which is what your careful wording is trying to imply.

    How about; A dishonest conspiracy theorist shouldn’t be granted institutional power in the GOP.

    Well, sure. How about a dishonest conspiracy theorist shouldn’t be granted institutional power? Or is that a bridge too far? Not really interested in dishonest conspiracy theorists in the party that controls Congress and the WH?

    “Look” said the possum as it spews garbage on the lawn. “It’s not fair that you stop what when the squirrels get in the trash also.“

    You’re thinking there is someone in charge of the yard. What’s going on is the squirrels are spewing trash, getting upset at the possum, and the possum is laughing and giving them the finger.

    frosty (f27e97)

  24. Victor (4959fb) — 2/4/2021 @ 6:55 am

    The article you linked is an example of the sad state of journalism. The headline is “forgot” in quotes as if McCarthy said that. It then goes on to make one statement that seems to be at the heart of the articles claim

    McCarthy used to hate QAnon before he didn’t know what it was.

    that it provides no evidence for. There is a link to a video where he says:

    There is no place for qanon in the Republican party. I do not support it.

    So, what establishes that he hated it? What established that he knew what it was beyond being a fringe thing that he didn’t support? This article doesn’t do that.

    Is this the sort of stuff you read to inform yourself?

    frosty (f27e97)

  25. frosty:

    Do you believe — as an objective thing — that having Ms. Greene on the education committee is appropriate? Do you believe she should be shamed, shunned, whatever for her pre-election activities? Do you support her?

    I realize that the answers to these question can be nuanced. Such as, well the people of NW Georgia elected her to represent her district (and the videos that are no going viral were known to her electorate). But I am actually interested on your opinion on this matter; not your opinion on the opinion of other people on this.

    And since I am asking directly — I will offer my thoughts. There is no way she should be expelled. I dislike the opposite party banning her from Committees, because that precedent, once set, will be abused, abused, abused. I do think the GOP should go ahead and assign her to the least important committees. Taking her off education and leaving her on budget (a proposal McCarthy was apparently circulating) was kind of weak, but at least something.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  26. It’s sad that McCarthy was able to make the majority of the party cower in fear instead of removing her from her position.

    A public vote would’ve been the cowered-in-fear vote; out of fear of Trump’s temper tantrums, the outcome on McCarthy would’ve been different. The secret vote itself was a cowardly choice by McCarthy, but it also allowed his caucus to vote how they really wanted.
    Similarly, a secret vote for impeachment would’ve produced more than just ten “ayes”, but it was only ten because of fearful House members. The blowback on the Impeachment Ten speaks exactly to that.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  27. What established that he knew what it was beyond being a fringe thing that he didn’t support? This article doesn’t do that.

    The article (actually, the tweet embedded in the article) establishes that McCarthy is a liar, frosty, beyond reasonable doubt.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  28. I’ve added to the post.

    Dana (fd537d)

  29. If you want to see a study in contrasts, Republicans were too afraid to take a public vote on Ms. Cheney (and too afraid to even vote on Ms. Greene, secretly or non-secretly), while Mr. Navalny was unrepentantly defiant in his speech before being taken to jail.

    Navalny delivered a defiant speech before the court on Tuesday in which he maintained his innocence and criticized Vladimir Putin—whom he called a “thieving little man”—for poisoning him with the nerve agent Novichok last year. (Putin denies he ordered the hit, but public reporting has cast that denial in doubt.)

    Putin has “never participated in any debates or campaigned in an election,” Navalny said from inside a glass cage, where he was kept for the entire hearing. “Murder is the only way he knows how to fight. He’ll go down in history as nothing but a poisoner.”

    So far, Ms. Greene has refused to publicly apologize for her QAnon crankery.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  30. @frosty@24 I am certain that you can tell that the quotes around ‘forgot’ were quotes of skepticism, not quotes of that’s what he said. And I’m sorry you don’t like their word-choice as a summation for did not support in any way and disavowed but it isn’t the magazine’s fault if you Amelia Bedelia’d your way through the article.

    Nic (896fdf)

  31. The secret vote itself was a cowardly choice by McCarthy, but it also allowed his caucus to vote how they really wanted.

    I disagree. It allowed the true sentiment of the House to be seen. As for “cowardly”, how would it be principled to let Cheney be railroaded by a public vote? Standing on principle when the harm falls elsewhere is not bravery. It’s without merit, at best.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  32. The way to deprive bullies of power is to remove their ability to punish. To make this a public vote would have been merely posturing at the expense of another, and would have done nothing to deprive Trump of his power.

    In public, it’s 140. In private it’s 61. Rather than gloating, Trump is ranting. Take it as the win it is.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. The vote should have been public. The insurrectionist bloc would have been smoked out. This way, the 61 who voted against Cheney can hide behind a cloak of secrecy. Public declarations are more valuable to voters than hidden agendas.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  34. Trump’s reaction.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  35. Mr. Navalny was unrepentantly defiant in his speech before being taken to jail.

    See the difference? Navalny was the one at risk, McCarthy was not. The first is bravery, the second is meh. What is shameful is McCarthy walking back his earlier criticism of Trump. If anything, though, making the vote secret moved the target off of Cheney and onto McCarthy, so there is maybe a smidgen of bravery there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. Trump’s reaction.

    Is silencing a political speaker a good thing, Rip? Or just those you don’t want to hear?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  37. The insurrectionist bloc would have been smoked out.

    At Cheney’s peril. You have a much different set of ethics than I.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. Time123 (441f53) — 2/4/2021 @ 6:58 am

    Frosty, this part of your comment isn’t accurate:

    It’s almost like it’s a story ginned up by the media to excite the left.

    Based on what? Your feelings? Did you read the part of the article about

    Those who get their election and political news mainly from The New York Times (59%), MSNBC (49%) or NPR (39%) are most likely to say they’ve heard or read at least a little about QAnon. And 7% of New York Times readers say they’ve heard or read a lot – the highest share of any group.

    There are 2 elected GOP represenatives who openly endorse the Qanon conspiracy.
    The presidents lawyers, Wood and Powell have endorsed it.
    The president’s former national security advisor has openly endorsed it.
    The president has amplified part of the Qannon message.
    Many of the domestic terrorists that attacked the US capital have endorsed it.

    How much more do you need to accept that it’s not a fiction made up by the left?

    Time123 (441f53)

  39. How about; A dishonest conspiracy theorist shouldn’t be granted institutional power in the GOP.

    Well, sure. How about a dishonest conspiracy theorist shouldn’t be granted institutional power? Or is that a bridge too far? Not really interested in dishonest conspiracy theorists in the party that controls Congress and the WH?

    I said GOP for 2 reasons. Firstly because we’re talking specifically about a deranged nutbar that’s part of the GOP. Secondly because I think denying her power within her political party is fine, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to kick her out of Congress. The morons that voted for her deserve to have a representative of their choice in congress.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  40. Frosty,

    I guess I should apologize. He didn’t say he hated Qanon, which he indicated he knew and could pronounce completely. He say he didn’t support it and it had no place in the Republican Party.

    I agree that’s different. It’s possible he loved Qanon, but for its own good had to sadly withdraw his support and felt that the Republicans weren’t good enough for good old Qanon.

    Which again he appeared aware of and how to pronounce.

    Victor (4959fb)

  41. “Look” said the possum as it spews garbage on the lawn. “It’s not fair that you stop what when the squirrels get in the trash also.“

    You’re thinking there is someone in charge of the yard. What’s going on is the squirrels are spewing trash, getting upset at the possum, and the possum is laughing and giving them the finger.

    In this analogy the yard belongs to the public. I’m annoyed at both possums and squirrels messing up the trash. But you’re right that Trumpers and their partisan supporters, (dropping the analogy now) try to justify their destructive, immoral, behavior by saying ‘whatabout’.

    Time123 (441f53)

  42. @36-
    Is silencing a political speaker a good thing, Rip? Or just those you don’t want to hear?

    It’s a joke.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  43. @37-

    I’m not sure what you mean by a different set of ethics, but I don’t believe politicians should be able to hide behind secret ballots on issues of public concern. They should be able to state their opinions openly, otherwise they will say one thing in private and another in public (which they do anyways).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. I disagree. It allowed the true sentiment of the House to be seen. As for “cowardly”, how would it be principled to let Cheney be railroaded by a public vote? Standing on principle when the harm falls elsewhere is not bravery. It’s without merit, at best.

    Yes, it was cowardly, Kevin. If an elected representative can only vote his conscience by a secret vote, then that’s a serious problem, and it tells you the extent of the dysfunction in my party. Not even holding a vote on Ms. Greene is another telltale. These politicians represent you and me, and they have no business voting in secret. It should all be on record.
    You know who’s been brave from start to finish? The ten Republicans who voted to impeach, for all the blowback they’ve gotten, and especially Ms. Cheney for standing her ground and demanding a vote on her leadership.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  45. I just read that Representative Trashbag Full of Lies now regrets her support of insane conspiracy theories and is made that tech companies made her believe such horrible things.

    I predict we’re about to talk a walk from WWG1WGA to “No one important supports it”, to “What’s Qanon?” to “No one ever supported it, it’s a lie made up by the left to smear republicans.

    Time123 (441f53)

  46. …it isn’t the magazine’s fault if you Amelia Bedelia’d your way through the article.

    Awesome reference, Nic, using Amelia Bedelia’d in a sentence.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  47. They should be able to state their opinions openly, otherwise they will say one thing in private and another in public (which they do anyways).

    Well, then voting should be public, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. By ethics, I mean that “Who is harmed by your actions?” is an important question in determining rightness.

    Example: Let’s say that I had an affair with Joe’s wife, and Joe doesn’t know. I feel bad about it. So I go an apologize to Joe for having an affair with his wife. That may be bravery on my part, and it may make me feel better, but Joe’s wife is the one who is going to catch hell. Do I have the right to clear the air at her expense?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. @49, Doesn’t silence cause harm to Joe?

    Time123 (441f53)

  50. Well, then voting should be public, too.

    Not the same thing.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  51. More flipping and flopping, Time123: https://www.businessinsider.com/proud-boys-planned-capitol-siege-as-revenge-against-police-fbi-2021-2

    urbanleftbehind (36b6c6) — 2/4/2021 @ 10:33 am

    During the unrest this summer there were a lot of violent acts planned or committed by alt right groups. Bombing plots, arson, and the murder and attempted murder of police. I think some of them are a bit salty about that.

    Time123 (441f53)

  52. She’s so Newt.

    ____

    Another day wasted w/no vaccine and no emergency $2000–or is it $1400, Scranton Boy– or is it Wilmington this week.

    “I promise you I’ll have your back.” – President Plagiarist, State Dept., address, 2/4/21

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  53. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/4/2021 @ 10:33 am #47:
    They should be able to state their opinions openly, otherwise they will say one thing in private and another in public (which they do anyways).

    Well, then voting should be public, too.

    Actually, voting in public was the norm in the past.

    For most of America’s history, from colonial days to the 1890s, keeping the content of your vote secret was almost impossible. There was no expectation that the vote should be secret and little understanding of how this could be accomplished even if it were a good idea. Many people – and not just political operatives – thought secrecy was not a good idea. In those days there was no model for structuring elections so they could be private individual matters, conducted quietly inside public buildings, with votes cast while hidden red, white, and blue striped curtains. That is not the way US elections were conducted. The alternative – today’s secret ballot – with which we are now so familiar had yet to be invented, or, as it turned out, imported into American politics.

    All elections for most of America’s history were organized to be non-secret. They were public events with individual voting occurring in plain sight of the crowds that election days once attracted. They were the culmination of weeks of excited electioneering. In large cities, they were public spectacles, with torchlight parades and the large scale public “illuminations,” so popular in the Victorian era. In rural places, election days often coincided with markets and sale days. In both contexts, crowds of voters and non-voters, the eligible and the ineligible, young and old, men and (some) women gathered at pubic polling places and watched as the voters, one by one, stepped out from the crowd to vote.

    And as those men (for in almost all places only men could vote before 1918) stepped forward, it was almost always the case that the contents of their votes, their individual political choices, were identified by sight or sound and known to every person in the throng that assembled before the voting place. Here was a public festival during which you could learn a good deal about your friends and neighbors, your boss, or your employee. Seeing or hearing the individual votes as they were given revealed the tide of partisan battle. Political operatives could figure out what might yet be done to alter that outcome in the remainder of the day.

    The secret ballot didn’t come into vogue until the late 19th century. South Carolina didn’t switch to the secret ballot until 1950.

    If someone thought the last election was corrupt, elections prior to the switch to secret ballots were rife with intimidation, blackmailing, and vote buying. That, and the political privacy offered by secret ballots, are why returning to public voting won’t happen.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  54. By ethics, I mean that “Who is harmed by your actions?” is an important question in determining rightness.

    Under that standard, I don’t see any ethical issues asking politicians to vote in public.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  55. Time123 (441f53) — 2/4/2021 @ 10:23 am

    I predict we’re about to talk a walk from WWG1WGA to “No one important supports it”, to “What’s Qanon?” to “No one ever supported it, it’s a lie made up by the left to smear republicans.“

    Or we’re going to play “I’ve read everyone’s mind and I know what everyone really thinks”.

    Or we can play “I’m going to say you’ve said things you didn’t say”.

    I’m not surprised those possums aren’t persuaded by the squirrels’ crocodile tears?

    frosty (f27e97)

  56. Time123 (441f53) — 2/4/2021 @ 10:23 am

    I predict we’re about to talk a walk from WWG1WGA to “No one important supports it”, to “What’s Qanon?” to “No one ever supported it, it’s a lie made up by the left to smear republicans.“

    Or we’re going to play “I’ve read everyone’s mind and I know what everyone really thinks”.

    Or we can play “I’m going to say you’ve said things you didn’t say”.

    I’m not surprised those possums aren’t persuaded by the squirrels’ crocodile tears?

    frosty (f27e97) — 2/4/2021 @ 11:50 am

    If you’re accusing me of misrepresenting you, or mischaracterizing GOP figures who’ve been supporting the Qanon conspiracy please say so plainly. If I’ve made a mistake I’ll admit it and correct / retract my statement.

    Time123 (441f53)

  57. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/4/2021 @ 11:09 am

    South Carolina didn’t switch to the secret ballot until 1950.

    !!!

    I never heard that. So Strom Thurmond was elected Governor without a secret ballot?

    South Carolina it seems was behind in everything.

    Through 1860, the state legislature chose the Presidential electors. All other states had used an election since 1836. (Later on, Colorado’s presidential electors were chosen by the state legislature in 1876, the year it was admitted as a state, but that’s the only exception since then.)

    If someone thought the last election was corrupt, elections prior to the switch to secret ballots were rife with intimidation, blackmailing, and vote buying. That, and the political privacy offered by secret ballots, are why returning to public voting won’t happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (5b302e)

  58. How can Marjorie Taylor Greene suddenly say she believes the school shootings were real?

    Sammy Finkelman (5b302e)

  59. She’s blaming people on the Internet?

    Sammy Finkelman (5b302e)

  60. DCSCA @53. It’s $1,400 and Biden says he’s open to giving it to fewer people. He’s still well outbidding the Republicans and he wants to give money to types of colleges – public ones, and histically black ones, and add $400 to unemployment through September, not $300 through June.

    Also help state budgets in proportion to their Medicaid spending. Some states are not compensating doctors the cost of rapid Covid tests, although they were supposed to – that’s being corrected.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/03/upshot/covid-testing-children-pediatricians.html

    With other health services, doctors usually have a way to recoup losses when they believe insurer payments are not high enough: They can bill the patient directly for the remaining balance.

    But when it comes to coronavirus testing, federal law prohibits that. Legislation passed last spring tried to make coronavirus testing free for patients by barring providers from billing patients for the test. It requires insurers to fully cover the cost of the test but does not define what constitutes a “complete” reimbursement….

    ….Dr. Bob Stephens runs a solo pediatrics practice in Seguin, Texas. About 60 percent of his patients are Hispanic, and 50 percent of his patients are covered by the state Medicaid program.

    He began offering rapid coronavirus testing in October, buying each kit for $37, but learned the plans covering his Medicaid patients paid only $15 to $19.

    He did a bit of digging: Texas farms out its Medicaid program to private insurers known as managed care organizations. For nearly all of last year, the state did not set reimbursement rates for in-office testing. Instead, it let private insurers decide what they wished to pay.

    At the end of December, Dr. Stephens decided to stop offering the rapid test to Medicaid patients and to provide it only to those with private insurers, whose plans typically paid $45 to $50…

    Aetna runs one of the Medicaid plans that serve Dr. Stephens’s patients. A spokesman confirmed that it had paid doctors $15 for coronavirus tests last year, but said it was increasing its fee to $37.79 after receiving updated guidance from the state in recent weeks.

    Sammy Finkelman (5b302e)

  61. Sammy @58-

    In April 1950, Governor Strom Thurmond signed an omnibus bill that completely revised South Carolina’s laws pertaining to both primary and general elections. It included provisions to create more complete and uniform ballots to be issued to all voters at general elections. Prior to this time, voters were obliged to ask for either a Democratic ballot or a Republican ballot, which request opened them to potential scorn and intimidation. The new law also required polling places to provide private booths at all elections in which South Carolinians could finally cast a secret ballot. As a nod towards the increasing national pressure on voting rights, the state election law of 1950 made it illegal to “threaten, mistreat, or abuse any voter, with a view to control or intimidate him in the free exercise of his right of suffrage.”…..
    …….
    Between 1943 and 1951, the South Carolina legislature dismantled most of the laws intended to maintain the state’s traditions of White supremacy.
    ……….

    Source

    My emphasis.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. @49, Doesn’t silence cause harm to Joe?

    No. It is not your job to expose his wife, nor hers to expose you. You do NOT get to absolve yourself at the expense of another.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. And besides, Joe many not want to know.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. How can Marjorie Taylor Greene suddenly say she believes the school shootings were real?

    Sammy Finkelman (5b302e) — 2/4/2021 @ 12:27 pm

    Are you surprised that a trash-bag full of lies seems to lack integrity? She’s a shameless grifter. Her previous position stopped being useful so she’s changed it. The people that strongly support her seem more interested in owning the libs then anything else so they don’t care.

    Time123 (441f53)

  65. “She’s blaming people on the Internet?”

    I was allowed to believe things that weren’t true – Marjorie Greene

    Definitely a thing that someone who believes in personal responsibility would say.

    Davethulhu (6ba00b)

  66. “No one ever supported it, it’s a lie made up by the left to smear republicans.“

    Damn few ever supported it, it’s a lie to say otherwise, and the left IS using it to smear Republicans.

    There are a lot of Republicans whop believe there is a Deep State of some sort, but the baby-blood-drinking belief is almost entirely slander. More Democrats have worn blackface than Republicans who believe that Pelosi eats babies for breakfast.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. I’m not exactly a terribly big fan of the politics of the GOPers aligned with Liz Cheney, broadly speaking(I prefer a mix of Mike Lee, Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, Amash, etc. Aka conservatism that is considerably more libertarian leaning). But as long as MTG, Boebert, Gaetz, Gohmert, and others are around and spouting off what they do, rooting for Cheney and others of her ilk becomes a no brainer.

    The Democrats are gleeful that MTG will be in Congress, despite them aiming to strip her of her committee assignments. That seems to be why they are more gung-ho about committee stripping than expulsion. She will claim to the victim of the “establishment” and end up being a political albatross to the GOP for the next 2 years. Given that AOC and the “Squad” were vocal in their hard left views over the past 2 years, they ended up hurting the House Dems in last November’s elections, losing over a dozen seats. MTG will do to the Republicans as the “Squad” did to the Dems, albeit worse IMO.

    HCI (92ea66)

  68. Appalled (1a17de) — 2/4/2021 @ 8:15 am

    Do you believe — as an objective thing — that having Ms. Greene on the education committee is appropriate? Do you believe she should be shamed, shunned, whatever for her pre-election activities? Do you support her?

    Support? I’m not advocating for her to be on a given committee or any. I’m not sending her money or voting for her (full disclosure; I can’t promise to have not joked about this or promise not to joke about down the road). I’m not sending a letter to my congressperson to help her. I’ve no interest in her being a voice for qanon in Congress, etc. But for what it’s worth I don’t consider myself an R so I’m not sure I can answer this question the way you’re asking it. If I say it wouldn’t be appropriate it’d be based on a value judgment that would apply to almost every single person in Congress.

    Committee assignments have always been a political tool. If the party leadership wants to move people around for whatever reason that’s fine. Everyone can complain and voice their opinions because that’s how it works. She’s a freshman member so I wouldn’t expect her to have a position on any important committee. Move her to a different committee or don’t. I think the end result is basically the same.

    Should she be shunned? What are you thinking here other than taking her off committees? I don’t want to give a flippant response but I’m not sure what the ask is.

    And since I am asking directly — I will offer my thoughts. There is no way she should be expelled. I dislike the opposite party banning her from Committees, because that precedent, once set, will be abused, abused, abused.

    I’m more concerned about the abuse of the process. If the D’s vote to remove her from a committee I’d expect the R’s to do the same in the future. If the D’s vote to expel her I’d expect the R’s to do the same in the future.

    frosty (f27e97)

  69. Kevin McCarthy’s indecisiveness on MTG has proven to be costly. She, Boebert, Gaetz, and others going to spout off vocally for the next two years, playing the victim card. It’s going to be tiring to see. It would’ve been nice had the House GOP Conference ousted McCarthy and elevated Cheney to minority leader. While I’m glad Cheney triumphed, its going to be unnecessarily rough sledding for the GOP in these next 2 years.

    HCI (92ea66)

  70. Time123 (441f53) — 2/4/2021 @ 12:01 pm

    If you’re accusing me of misrepresenting you, or mischaracterizing GOP figures who’ve been supporting the Qanon conspiracy please say so plainly. If I’ve made a mistake I’ll admit it and correct / retract my statement.

    My comment was phrased in the same drive-by sideways style as yours. I only went the extra step of making my response directly to your comment.

    I never said, “No one ever supported it, it’s a lie made up by the left to smear republicans”. That is a misrepresentation of my comment, “not as many R’s know as much about qanon as you might have been led to believe” and “It’s almost like it’s a story ginned up by the media to excite the left”, that I believe you’ve made. Are you saying this wasn’t directed at my comment and that I’m making a mistake? If you say I’ve made a mistake I’ll accept that as true and I apologize.

    frosty (f27e97)

  71. Frosty, I wasn’t trying to imply that you said that. You clearly didn’t. I don’t think you’re going to say that. But I think it is going to be said. No apology needed on your part. I can see how my comment looked. Sorry for the confusion.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  72. Here’s what I’ll do. I’ll just make up all kinds of conspiracy theories and funky sh-t, and then when I get called on it, I’ll just employ the MTG Defense–“I was allowed to believe things weren’t true”–and then all will be well. Can’t lose, right?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  73. Piggybacking on your comments, Paul Montagu, at today’s hearing to vote on her, Marjorie Taylor Greene claimed that we only know her through what Media Matters and CNN have said about her. No, Marjorie, we know who you are and what you are about by the very words that you have spoken and written.

    This is not the party of self-responsibility.

    Dana (fd537d)

  74. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 2/4/2021 @ 3:28 pm

    Its A Bold Strategy Cotton

    frosty (f27e97)

  75. Dana (fd537d) — 2/4/2021 @ 3:31 pm

    On the list of her mistakes we also need to add not following the aoc playbook and asking her supporters to go on twitter to play the game. Now that she doesn’t have the heavy committee load she can brush up on media manipulation.

    frosty (f27e97)

  76. Marjorie Taylor Greene purged.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  77. Liz Cheney apparently thinks MTG belongs on the House Education Committee.

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. And I don’t think there should be a House Education Committee. Stop ceding power to the government, especially the federal government. Disband the Dept of Education. Get rid of all “studies” majors. Go back to the fundamentals.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  79. Yeah I agree with NJRob on that. There’s a simple solution if the country doesn’t want a very very out there politician having a hand in their local education.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  80. I have no doubts about Cheney’s usefulness to Washington. She’s smart, tough, connected and experienced. Her usefulness to Wyoming seems tangential.

    steveg (43b7a5)

  81. Speaking of tangents… who here is going to read the book Hunter Biden just got $2M to write?
    Same people who are buying his art? Who knew Ukranians and Chinese were big American art collectors and self help addiction books. Granted the Ukranians probably need to lay off the vodka and the Chinese invented to opium den so I can only I applaud Joe and his son for using more standard Democrat grifting methods.

    PS: Hunter is “trying to unwind” his Chinese investments. That ought to take 4-8 years

    steveg (43b7a5)

  82. She is exactly what the Republican party needs if it has any hope of restoring credibility and worth.

    If you’re relying on Liz Cheney to restore the Republican party’s reputation back to where it was in the neocon-run mid-2000s, it was being blamed for lying about WMDs and killing black people in New Orleans after a hurricane, the party is in far deeper trouble than anyone here seems to realize.

    Factory Working Orphan (f916e7)


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