Claims of Election Fraud Lead to Military Coup
I’m talking, of course, about Myanmar.
What did you think I was talking about?
Myanmar’s military staged a coup Monday and detained senior politicians including Nobel laureate Aung San Suu Kyi — a sharp reversal of the significant, if uneven, progress toward democracy the Southeast Asian nation has made following five decades of military rule.
An announcement read on military-owned Myawaddy TV said Commander-in-Chief Senior Gen. Min Aung Hlaing would be in charge of the country for one year. It said the seizure was necessary because the government had not acted on the military’s claims of fraud in November’s elections — in which Suu Kyi’s ruling party won a majority of the parliamentary seats up for grabs — and because it allowed the election to go ahead despite the coronavirus pandemic.
The takeover came the morning the country’s new parliamentary session was to begin and follows days of concern that a coup was coming. The military maintains its actions are legally justified — citing a section of the constitution it drafted that allows it to take control in times of national emergency — though Suu Kyi’s party spokesman as well as many international observers have said it amounts to a coup.
Bogus claims of election fraud. A manufactured state of emergency. Assurances that the action is legal because it complies with the letter of a constitutional provision.
Whew. I’m glad stuff like that could never happen here.
Would it be wrong for the people whose votes are being tossed in the trash to take over the government by force, if they could?
Of course it would. Because reliance on a constitutional provision does not make this any less of a pretextual and unprincipled power grab.Patterico (115b1f) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:36 am
Notice how they say it’s temporary. They’ll turn power back over to civilians once they find some that will do what they’re told and can ensure the election process doesn’t result in the wrong outcome. They’ll say this new election is the ‘fair’ one.Time123 (b87ded) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:45 am
Thailand. But I can;t quite keep all the details of what;s going on in the two different countries straight.
https://thethaiger.com/news/regional/myanmar/update-thailand-deputy-pm-responds-to-myanmar-army-coupSammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:56 am
Reagan’s farewell address.
This is the complete opposite of ‘you think our country’s so innocent?’ Donald Trump. The two men couldn’t be more different. Their presidencies did the opposite.
The Russians have had a coordinated series of attacks on our country, from the hacks and selective leaks, probably the wall street shenanigans, and conflating the right with emboldened racists. It’s extensive and powerful war.
But why? Because it will lead to things like in Myanmar. The Russian government is attacking the concept of democracy, which is really the concept of peace. They are attacking it at home too.
A lot of elected Republicans are choosing the easy and selfish path, when this is an opportunity if they would just do the right thing.Dustin (4237e0) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:59 am
This was Trump’s fantasy. A military coup installing himself for a second term. He must be wondering why it can’t happen here.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:59 am
Missing ingredient in the United States of America: An independent military, used to taking no orders, and not swearing loyalty to the constitution.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:59 am
However, Aung San Suu Kyi’s detention is sweet justice, given how much she has kowtowed to the military in its campaign to destroy the Rohingya people.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:02 am
Aung San Suu Kyi’s detention is sweet justice
It didn’t save her in the end. The military had other issues besides murdering civilians and destroying villages.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:21 am
In the meantime, Xi Jinping may be in trouble in China (unless this is carefully targeted disinformation)
Excerpt from an Op-ed article by Nicholas Kristof that ran in the New York Times Review section on Sunday, January 31, 2021:
So maybe the same thing could happen to him that happened to Benito Mussolini in 1943 and Nikita Khrushchev in 1964.
Are they really talking openly to Americans about it?
Could it really be that getting a little bit tougher on China could lead to his removal??
It almost happened to Hitler in 1938, although that would have been a military coup.. (if the Munich negotiations had failed.)Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:22 am
It can happen anywhere, that’s why civilian governments need to be vigilant and proactive and not rely solely on traditions and institutions.
Hitler restructured the Wehrmacht and replaced its command staff with Prussian generals whom he bribed with land and money. Stalin simply killed all the Red Army officers he did not trust. Truman fired MacArthur and bribed Eisenhower with a run at the Presidency.
And, anyway, if push really comes to shove, the Rothschilds will simply vaporize a couple of army divisions with their space lasers and the rest will stand down, won’t they?nk (1d9030) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:22 am
The German generals did not believe that Germany would win a war that started in October, 1938, with Czechoslovakia still in possession of all its capability.
A lot of German generals were executed before May 1945, by the way.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:30 am
In China every important person in the Communist Party also has a position in the military. Mainland China is really run by a military junta, disguised as a Communist dictatorship, which is in turn disguised as a government with a constitution.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:34 am
Could it really be that getting a little bit tougher on China could lead to his removal??
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:43 am
Dustin (4237e0) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:59 am
Not just the Russian government. also the government of China.
And should western intervention or a recolution overthrow a dictatorship you have countries in the Middle East – Iran, but in the past also Syria and Saudi Arabia – that promote and fund war and terrorism.
That;s why the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were not outstanding successes.
There was nothing natural or inevitable about what followed. And it wasn’t a mere “power vacuum”
Bush wasn’t wrong about the results of liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein. It’s just that he and Rumsfeld didn’t understand how many more enemies they would attract, who aimed to teach the United States (and captive people) a lesson.
In 2011, other dictatorships rose to the defense of dictatorship in Libya and Syria.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:47 am
That’s what they hope, of course.
It wouldn’t be so good, but it would be a little bit better: Reversal on Hong Kong and Macao, an end to attempted military intervention in the South China Sea and with regard to Taiwan, a important vast change of policy in Sinkiang and Tibet, openness on organ donations, and half truth about the coronavirus. More like after Stalin than after Khrushchev.
In China you probably have people now worried about the position of their children, and about their money. They don;t want a Chinese Mohammed bin Salman. The isolation from the world is a problem for them too. Could they be talking to Americans in hopes of building a case to accept them for political asylum, or as a defector?Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:56 am
lso an end to the attempt to export Chinese controls on the Internet, and a let up of censorship in China.
People are now being hailed in China for what post on Twitter, even when they have few followers, and it doesn’t take much.
It used to be just short detentions and harassment.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 10:03 am
I’m glad stuff like that could never happen here.
Could it? It didn’t.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 10:33 am
Off-topic: new space company launches with biofueled rocket. BluShift Aerospace. I think it’s an anagram. Obviously hoping for some government loans.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 10:37 am
Sorry: link. https://www.engadget.com/blushift-aerospace-first-biofuel-rocket-launch-161359224.htmlKevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 10:37 am
Reversal on Hong Kong and Macao, an end to attempted military intervention in the South China Sea and with regard to Taiwan, a important vast change of policy in Sinkiang and Tibet, openness on organ donations, and half truth about the coronavirus.
Not if the Chinese military takes over in an overt coup.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 10:49 am
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 10:49 am
It depends on the purpose of the military coup: To avoid trouble, or to create it.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 11:08 am
It depends on the purpose of the military coup: To avoid trouble, or to create it.
Or to maintain their power, given their control of a large portion of the economy. If things go further south in Hong Kong, watch for overt military intervention followed by removal of the “civilian” Chinese leadership. Taiwan better watch out.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 11:11 am
A nation is a living thing that ages and changes and suffers hardships and enjoys prosperities and constantly needs to be sustained, but it stands a better chance if it’s hardy to begin with, and America has always been hardy. It would take a lot more than a pandemic and a New York sewer rat to bring her down.nk (1d9030) — 2/1/2021 @ 11:36 am
Leaving aside that we’d all be rounded up, beaten, starved and some of us disappeared just for discussing this on the internet, I’ll say that the level of disenfranchisement described above would be the best solution developed thus far for a Myanmar election. Seperating illegally cast and legally cast ballots would be a fair and true election. Something Myanmar has maybe never had.
What if the people in Kachin State could round up all the ballots cast and audit them, removing the bogus votes facilitated by the military? That would be an unprecedented win for the people.
On sanctions. Biden is not going to throttle the Chinese to get at Myanmar… that would jeopardize Hunter’s cash flow. I’ll go out on a limb and say ditto on the North Koreans. Oh the media will call them “meaningful” but they won’t be. If you want either of those two client states to do anything, you have to make their actions painful to China.
That said, the established trade route up the Irrawaddy to Kachin State and across to China is hard to monitor, much less sanction. Via a series of approved concessionaires, the military controls rubies, emeralds, jade, gold, timber, raw materials, and much of the plants and animal parts that make up the chinese medicinals. That can be shipped entirely within Myanmar over river and road to China or just flaunt the sanctions and ship it via cargo ships. Biden isn’t going to bottle up shipping traffic to and from China through the Strait of Malacca to the South China Sea.
China has good leverage on Biden and probably quite a few more Democrats. China has many thought leaders, journalists and members of academia on their payroll.
My guess is opportunity knocked for the Myanmar military to make their move. Internal election in Myanmar. Trump gone. (Yes the military in Myanmar feared Trump’s ability to sanction and hurt China via tarrifs) USA elected an impotent (against China) old man in the early stages of dementia.steveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 12:08 pm
Look for more of this type of thing in the coming days
Emotional support animals thought police fainting spells over tweets, are few of things that strike me as incongruent with hardiness.steveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 12:17 pm
In Myanmar an emotional support rat would be better named delicious emergency food. Mean tweets about the military get your fingers removed with pliers, the Myanmar military is all about the thought police and is probably much admired by @jacksteveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 12:24 pm
remind me again who rolled in 25k troops to make sure they had a “peaceful transition of power”?frosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 12:56 pm
The country that worried that a bunch of Trumpist lunatics would violently disrupt the inauguration the way they disrupted the Congressional vote count?
Are you gonna make that Biden’s fault somehow?Patterico (115b1f) — 2/1/2021 @ 12:58 pm
Democrats were in control of Congress, thank God, making the idea that Congress would throw out the votes a non-starter.
Wait until the same thing happens in a 2024 Trump v. Biden contest, when the Banana Republicans control Congress — and secretaries of state in various GOP states have won election on a “I won’t let them steal it from Trump this time” platform. How confident do you feel about our institutions’ ability to withstand that? Do you feel lucky?Patterico (115b1f) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:03 pm
I’m not calling you a punk, to be clear — that’s just the way the line in the movie reads.Patterico (115b1f) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:04 pm
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/1/2021 @ 12:58 pm
The country decided that? As some sort of anthropomorphic entity? I didn’t decide that. Unless you’re somehow in the chain of command for the NG that was deployed I’m going to say you didn’t either. The country didn’t decide anything.
No. I’m not convinced Biden has the capacity to decide what he has for breakfast so I won’t try to make a military show of force his fault.frosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:16 pm
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:03 pm
It’s almost like we should take a look at the election process, make it a little more reliable, less open to charges of abuse or corruption. Otherwise, these free and fair elections might not go well. It’s sort of a catch-22 though since admitting that we should improve things might undermine previous assertions that everything was free and fair.frosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:22 pm
steveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 12:08 pm
Hunter has no cash flow. So that’s not a reason.
He was out of business already at the time he left that computer at the repair shop in Delaware, (it’s files had been re-downloaded from his iCloud account. That’s why he never retrieved the files, besides moving to California – all 3 of his computers probably mostly contained the same files.
One was irretrievably broken because Apple builds computers where you can’t realistically replace the motherboard; a second only need its keyboard replaced, and the computer repair man loaned him another one – he never returned it or paid for it, apparently, and the third couldn’t boot but you could recover the files. In one of those files he said he had no money because his family had taken all of it.
The files were collected by the computer repairman and he copied them all over to a non-bootable external hard drive. Eventually he looked at it. It was after the hard disk and its contents had legally passed into his possession. And it looked curious. (actually the worst things on it, he thought, were the pictures, some of which could amount to child pornography because some of the women looked under 18, but the FBI apparently later decided it was inconclusive because nobody knew the identity of any such women.)
The computer repairman later unsuccessfully tried to interest a Congressional committee and still later told the FBI. The FBI wouldn’t take it without a subpoena. So they first, after interviewing him, opened up a money laundering investigation (because some money seemed to be sloshing around with no business purpose the Mac repairman could understand)
The FBI took the original computer and the hard disk, but the repairman still had the files on his capacious server. He later on copied the files again to another hard disk and sent to Giuliani’s lawyer.
The business deal that Hunter was talking about in 2017 fell through (after Hunter and Joe’s brother James had spent $100,000 on probably mostly not business related expenses, which they’d gotten after they;d cut out the watchdog Joe Biden had arranged for.
It’s not noted by the people who talk about Hunter Biden that Ye Jianming, the chief executive of the Chinese company Hunter Biden was dealing with disappeared into the Chinese prison system, and his company CEFC, has gone out of business. Perhaps Xi Jinping didn’t like that Ye Jianming was conducting his own independent foreign corruption policy. In 2016, CEFC China was ranked 229 on the Fortune Global 500 List in 2016 and has a workforce of over 30,000 but it went out of business in 2016.
Jack Ma of Alibaba is now maybe also being destroyed, He disappeared in October, and his initial public offering of Ant was cancelled but almost two weeks ago reappeared in public, so maybe another faction is regaining some power or people are being unpurged. Jack Ma had three children during the one child era, so he must have been pretty connected.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:22 pm
That’s the problem. There’d be more Banana Republicans. Of course, because they were Banana Republicans, they wouldn’t get elected. But it is something you’d have to watch out for. No good.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:27 pm
Yes… yes, I do feel lucky.
I don’t think the shenanigans had any remote chance for success and that existing process worked. That goes for any future shananigans too.
BTW, one of my all time favorite move.whembly (fd0490) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:27 pm
The problem abut future shenanigans is that this was new, and future Republican officeholders might not be as honest if this goes on.
But you only need approximately one third of the officeholders from one political party to be honest, and judges serve for a long time.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 1:38 pm
@27. This has less to do w/Trump himself and more to do w/the steady rise of populism over the past 35-40 years. And the seduction, abandonment and by both major parties keeps fueling it. They remain befuddled and sluggishly unresponsive toit; other than to call up troops to guard the castle and then complain the troops themselves may be peppered w/populists– along w/some of their own colleagues. Keeps Ol’Nancy’s knickers in a twist for sure. Revisit the history of Burma [my globe is old]–what goes around comes around; military coup back in ’62, too.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 2/1/2021 @ 2:14 pm
That would be Donald J Trump, you know, the president of the United States at the time.Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 2/1/2021 @ 2:27 pm
How is Hunter paying his 12,000 a month rent in LA without cash flow from some source.
If someone is covering the bill for him, it seems to reason they expect something out of it.
I was referring to Hunter’s stake in BHR. He still owns 10% and that still seems active in spite of the stories he is no longer involved.steveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 2:40 pm
He hasn’t given up his 10% stake and University of Chicago economist has been quoted as saying the valuation by Biden’s lawyer/volunteer of $420,000 is based off 10% of the original seed money of $4.2M not todays valuation of $3.2B which would be $320M (Cue Fortunate Son by CCR. The rest of us need to learn how to work on wind farms)
Think of it this way. Who could jeopardize Hunters 10% stake and how do people get value from a Biden who is no longer *ahem* involved? Now the Chinese are not stupid enough to bring President Joe down. They can mess with Hunter and his money because we already know who he is. Joe’s Presidency can withstand another Hunter scandal or three, but can avoid even that possibility by doing what he does best, which is simply flapping gums at the Chinese and doing nothing that stings and by following through on what BHR wants from its Biden connection.
steveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 2:40 pm
If someone is covering the bill for him, it seems to reason they expect something out of it. Yes. That he stay away from questionable business deals, and not embarrass his father. You have to winder if they’re getting paid by some member of the Biden family. Or is there some “angel” involved? It could be whoever is paying the bills for his lawyers. Or maybe that’s different.
You think Joe Biden doesn’t know plenty of American citizens who would be willing to help Hunter out?Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 3:09 pm
Somebody from whom it would be safer to take money from than any source having anything to do with China?Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 3:24 pm
Joe and Hunter seemed to like international money, but I’m sure they could get a bank to give Hunter a 1.5% interest loan against his stake that they won’t pursue if that stake evaporates.
The problem I see is that if the stake is really worth closer to $420M than $420K, that is a lot of money to walk away from.
That art thing seems like a laughable bribe laundering scheme. “Buy my crappy, wildly overpriced art and I’ll make sure my Dad will see your name on my Instagram” This is worse than Eric shilling Trump Hotels. At least there you got a room and the Trumps had actual expenses. This is on par with the woman in Baltimore that sold her childrens health book to hospitals and schools where the boxes of books sat unopened in basements.steveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 4:19 pm
the Rothschilds will simply vaporize a couple of army divisions with their space lasers and the rest will stand down
Either that or use them to start hurricanes like they did during the 2012 campaign.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 4:39 pm
@29: I thought that film was banned in the BLM era.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 4:41 pm
If there was a military coup in North Korea, it would be a liberalization.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 4:42 pm
H.R. 127: The gun confiscation act of 2021.
National licensing of all guns and ammunition possession. This is retroactive. Specific licenses for particular types of weapons (e.g. “military style weapons”).
To obtain such a license, one would need to be 21, passes a background check and a psychological evaluation (which may include other members of the household, and interviewing former spouses and additional persons as needed)* , has appropriate training, stores the firearm under certain guidelines, and acquires liability insurance, with a specified cost of $800/year.
It would appear that no license need be granted for “military-style weapons”, “large magazines” (aka normal magazines) or any adaptable weapon. Some of these would be outright banned.
There would be a national registry of firearms.
The license would have to be renewed, with repeated checks.
Penalties include imprisonment for as much as 25 years, and fines of as much as $100,000, or both.
=====================Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:09 pm
* This is in some ways more stringent than a SECRET clearance.
But I am sure that the GOP’s attention will be on Trump and only Trump. Elections have consequences.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:11 pm
The media made great hay with Trump’s financial ties to Russia. They don’t even bother to look at Biden’s financial ties to China.
I’m pretty sure this won’t come back to bite our nation in the butt. I’m sure Biden will treat China as if China has not poured millions into his family and his political party.Hoi Polloi (139bf6) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:13 pm
I don’t think anyone really wants to help out Hunter. I’m sure there are plenty that will help out Hunter to curry favor with Joe, however…Hoi Polloi (139bf6) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:15 pm
You’ll find more Friends of Bill than Friends of Biden here, I think, Hoi Polloi, now that he has fulfilled God’s purpose, which I presume to be ridding us of that turbulent orange.nk (1d9030) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:21 pm
But our system did work. Does anyone really believe that the US military would follow an unconstitutional order from any president to allow that president to stay in power? Not that it could never happen, but we have such a long tradition of the military following the law that it seems very unlikely. Washington started it, emulating Cincinnatus and refusing entreaties to become a king. In my recollection, the closest we’ve come to the military interfering with civilian government was when the army, acting on Lincoln’s orders, prevented the Maryland legislature from convening because he feared it would vote to secede. But even that was after war had begun. Yes, It Can Happen Here, but the chances are remote, and especially not with Trump, who many of the top brass loathed.RL formerly in Glendale (fda61c) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:27 pm
The media made great hay with Trump’s financial ties to Russia. They don’t even bother to look at Biden’s financial ties to China.
That would be Biden’s adult son, right, not the President?Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:46 pm
Kevin, I think only Sudden Impact would be banned for the fact the cashier lady at the lunch stand clearly over-sugared Callahan’s coffee based on racial profiling, before he walked back to complain and got the chance to say “Go Ahead, Make My Day!” Harry also took on Chinese, Chicano and woman partners in other DH films, almost as pre-penance for his expected misdeeds.urbanleftbehind (8404e3) — 2/1/2021 @ 6:17 pm
A little lighter take on this topic:urbanleftbehind (8404e3) — 2/1/2021 @ 6:18 pm
Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 2/1/2021 @ 3:09 pm
Nicholas McQuaid was picked as acting chief of the Justice Department’s criminal division and, until he was appointed, he was a partner of Hunter’s attorney. I’m sure ethics rules will keep that clean those.frosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 7:46 pm
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:46 pm
FIFYfrosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 7:57 pm
Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 2/1/2021 @ 2:27 pm
Ah, good catch. Let me rephrase; who needed to have 25k troops rolled in for them? You’d think if Biden didn’t want to look like a dictator in a banana republic he’d send them home. Between that and the EO’s he needs some medals on his chest and some fancy boots.frosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:31 pm
It was the orange who created the banana republic climate in DC on January 6, and flew off to his perennial one before the inauguration on January 20.nk (1d9030) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:41 pm
RL formerly in Glendale (fda61c) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:27 pm
By definition all orders the US military follows are constitutional.
Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus in the first year of the Civil War. Lincoln ignored a Supreme Court justice’s decision overturning his order. He later found that R’s in Missouri didn’t want to rescind them.frosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 8:51 pm
By definition all orders the US military follows are constitutional.
nk (1d9030) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:14 pm
#58steveg (43b7a5) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:17 pm
I was unaware that Trump made Biden issue 25 banana republic style EO’s, 10 Presidential memos and 4 proclaimations.
In other words, Trump may have sent the girl to the prom drunk in a skimpy dress and no underwear, but that doesn’t mean Joe gets to *bleep* her. Joe has poor character. A good man makes sure she gets home safe. If he takes advantage, he’s no better than the guy who sent her there in that condition
If you say so, steveg.nk (1d9030) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:33 pm
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/1/2021 @ 5:09 pm
That’s going to be an interesting conversation. It’s one thing to go after the evil other people but there are a lot of people who vote D who also bought a few guns last year.frosty (f27e97) — 2/1/2021 @ 9:40 pm
despite raising 200 million dollars to challenge the election result and filing 60 lawsuits there hasn’t been any signifigant fraud found. From what I’m aware of the total number of fraudulent ballots found in is the double digits, have been for both candidates and none appear to be part of any organized effort.
As evidence I’ll point to Georgia. It’s a state run by republicans, investigated extensively by people not involved in the election process, and apparently free from ‘abuse and corruption’. But still subject to many baseless accusations.
There are no reasonable good faith efforts that can persuade people who aren’t making conclusions based on fact. So at this point I don’t believe that people raising concerns about election integrity are acting in informed good faith.Time123 (80b471) — 2/2/2021 @ 5:17 am
Strange choice of analogy given all the women Trump is accused of assaulting. Maybe take a cold shower.Time123 (80b471) — 2/2/2021 @ 5:18 am
Time123 (80b471) — 2/2/2021 @ 5:17 am
I personally know people involved in some of processes you’re referring to that would disagree with your characterization. Telling them they’re acting in bad faith isn’t going to restore their trust in the system.
However; it doesn’t matter what you think about my good faith. There were issues I had with voting prior to the election that have only been made worse. Dismissing outright any issues because it might challenge the 2020 narrative is also not acting in good faith. Let’s hope those free and fair elections keep going the way you want. It’s going to be hard to complain when they don’t and you’ve just got sour grapes.frosty (f27e97) — 2/2/2021 @ 6:42 am
1 what issues?Time123 (80b471) — 2/2/2021 @ 6:54 am
2 what evidence do you have that these ‘issues’ are actual problems that need changes to address?
3 the fact that this election was fair doesn’t mean all future ones will be. If there’s evidence in the future it should be acted on.
4 I’m dismissing your vague concern outright because it challenges a narrative. I’m dismissing it because despite significant investigation there’s no evidence.
Time123 (80b471) — 2/2/2021 @ 6:54 am
I’ve been in favor of voter id laws since before Trump. There are also issues with voter rolls and eligibility. I’m also against mail in voting, especially the kind that doesn’t require a witness.
Vote in person with an ID. That’s a start.
If we’re going to use electronic voting all of the machines and all of the code needs to be open and subject to review. I’m not in favor of electronic voting though. I’d prefer paper ballots and a simpler mechanical process that can be hand verified.
A much more complex issue is being able to validate your vote. Much of what’s described as an audit or investigation is simply doing a cursory review. For all of your claims of “no evidence” you’re still left with nothing other than your belief. The other side is in the same boat. Neither side has evidence to move their belief to a fact. You’d think that might be something you’d want to fix.
This is a flippant way to ask the question though. It seems to ignore the fact that people have been calling for various types of reforms long before Trump. And you seem to be taking the position that if I’ve got concerns it’s because Trump. Maybe you need more boxes to lump people into. If you’re adding some I’d suggest “people who give a s$&t about election integrity”. You can put me in that box.frosty (f27e97) — 2/2/2021 @ 7:50 am
Frosty, Sorry if i was flippant, but your comment was similarly sarcastic/flip
That’s already part of the process. Each state sets their rules.
What I’m left with is the results of the rules and process that were put in place ahead of the election on how it will be run and counted. That includes process to double check, to hold re-counts and to challenge results in public with observers. In previous elections that process was judged sufficient. In this election Trumpers don’t trust the results for president, but seem fine with the results for other GOP elected officials. This makes them seem insincere, but YMMV.
Your framing requires me to prove a negative, that fraud didn’t happen. If you’re saying there is a problem you need to show some evidence of it. In most of the key states the rules were created by GOP legislatures and GOP governors.
People have been calling for reforms to prevent double voting or fabricating votes through absentee ballots etc. Now we’ve had a massive search for fraud and found almost none. To me that indicates that the problem is hypothetical. I agree it could happen, but there’s no evidence that it has. Given that, why make it harder for people to vote and more expensive to run an election?
Before we pass more laws show me evidence that a problem actually exists. The 2020 presidential campaign is a good test case because there was so much focus on it.Time123 (36651d) — 2/2/2021 @ 8:09 am
If we’re going to use electronic voting all of the machines and all of the code needs to be open and subject to review.
PUBLIC review, not just some team of aparatchik-appointed examiners.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/2/2021 @ 2:51 pm
Voting machines are like encryption systems. The creators invariably want to keep their code secret, thinking this maximizes security, when the actual security comes from widespread vetting. If your system requires secrecy to be secret, rest assured that the secrecy will be broken and you then have exploits up the kazoo.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/2/2021 @ 2:55 pm
*requires secrecy to be SECUREKevin M (ab1c11) — 2/2/2021 @ 2:55 pm
There was also a disputed election in Ethiopia, or rather a disppute over whether there should be elections, which has led to a terrible war by the incumbent against the previous party. All governments since Haile Selassie in Ethiopia have been horrible.
The current ruler received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2019 for settling the war with Eritrea, (ruled by an absolutely horrible government) and now Eritrea is allied with the central government in Ethiopia in its civil war. It’s maybe not a civil war – it’s against one province, the home base of the previous government.
(of course, not necessarily authoritative)Sammy Finkelman (5b302e) — 2/3/2021 @ 3:40 am