Patterico's Pontifications

1/3/2021

The House of Representatives Should Impeach Donald Trump Again — Right Now

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:23 am



The Washington Post has released audio of President Donald J. Trump telling the Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find” enough votes in the state to change the election results. In the call, Trump says that any other outcome would be a “criminal offense” — essentially threatening to have Raffensperger arrested if he does not do Trump’s bidding.

Trump tells Raffensperger that “there’s nothing wrong with saying that you’ve recalculated” and says: “You’re off by hundreds of thousands of votes. You know what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a, you know, that’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. That’s a big risk to you and Ryan, your lawyer.” Trump says: “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.”

Trump says the failure to do this will be “costly in many ways” and tells Raffensperger to “reexamine it with people that want to find answers, not people that don’t want to find answers.”

The House of Representatives should immediately impeach Trump again, and the Senate should (but never will) vote to have him removed.

Listen to an excerpt of the call here. The transcript is below.

TRUMP: We have won this election in Georgia, based on all of this. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, Brad. You know, I mean, having the cor– having a correct — the people of Georgia are angry. And these numbers are going to be repeated on Monday night, along with others that we’re going to have by that time, which are much more substantial even. And the people of Georgia are angry. The people in the country are angry. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you’ve recalculated.

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong.

TRUMP: Now, do you think it’s possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton County? ‘Cause that’s what the rumor is. And also that Dominion took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their, uh, machinery. Do you know anything about that? ‘Cause that’s illegal, right?

GERMANY: This is Ryan Germany. No, Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County.

TRUMP: But have they moved the inner parts of the machines and replaced them with other parts?

GERMANY: No.

TRUMP: Are you sure, Ryan?

GERMANY: I’m sure.

. . . .

TRUMP: You should want to have an accurate election. And you’re a Republican.

RAFFENSPERGER: We believe that we do have an accurate election.

TRUMP: No, no, you don’t. No, no, you don’t. You don’t have. You don’t have. Not even close. You’re off by hundreds of thousands of votes.

. . . .

TRUMP: You know what they did, and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you know, you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I’ve heard. And they are removing machinery, and they’re moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal fines. And you can’t let it happen, and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I’m notifying you that you’re letting it happen. So look — all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.

. . . .

TRUMP: So, tell me, Brad. What are we going to do? We won the election, and it’s not fair to take it away from us like this. And it’s going to be very costly in many ways. And I think you have to say that you’re going to reexamine it, and you can reexamine it, but reexamine it with people that want to find answers, not people that don’t want to find answers. For instance, I’m hearing Ryan that he’s probably, I’m sure a great lawyer and everything, but he’s making statements about those ballots that he doesn’t know. But he’s making them with such — he did make them with surety. But now I think he’s less sure, because the answer is, they all went to Biden, and that alone wins us the election by a lot. You know, so.

RAFFENSPERGER: Mr. President, you have people that submit information, and we have our people that submit information, and then it comes before the court, and the court then has to make a determination. We have to stand by our numbers. We believe our numbers are right.

TRUMP: Well, under law, you’re not allowed to give faulty election results, okay? You’re not allowed to do that. And that’s what you’ve done. This is a faulty election result. And honestly, this should go very fast. You should meet tomorrow, because you have a big election coming up, and because of what you’ve done to the president — you know, the people of Georgia know that this was a scam, and because of what you’ve done to the president, a lot of people aren’t going out to vote, and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it. And they’re going to vote. And you would be respected, really respected, if this thing could be straightened out before the election. You have a big election coming up on Tuesday.

164 Responses to “The House of Representatives Should Impeach Donald Trump Again — Right Now”

  1. Well you’re preaching to the choir on this.

    This phone call is so blatant that anyone defending it as ‘just a little phone call’ or ‘fighting fire with fire’ or ‘but democrats accused Trump of collusion’ are fully aware they are wrong.

    Impeachment gives the GOP a golden gift to turn back from what they all realize is a terrible, terrible week in American history. Yes, the Tim McVeigh wing will freak out. That is a band-aid the GOP must yank, shoulda yanked four years ago.

    Also importantly, the narrative of next week is supposed to help Trump. I don’t know if he’s going to bomb Iran or if buildings were supposed to burn in DC or what, but he wanted to control the narrative. Impeaching Trump for this phone call ensures everyone is talking about why it’s OK for a president to coerce someone into finding votes that aren’t there.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  2. Totally looking forward to Cruz’s and Hawley’s defenses of this.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  3. I wasn’t aware until now that SecState Raffensperger had a phone convo with Trump. Given the death threats that he and his family faced and massive pressure on him to buckle up until now, he’s always had my respect. But now with him standing firm to Trump in an actual phone convo, my respect for him went up exponentially.

    I’m not sure that impeachment is the best thing to do right now, given that Trump is going to be out of office in 2.5 weeks and there aren’t votes in the Senate to convict. On that point, I agree with Dustin. The latter is really good in playing the persecution card, and he’ll no doubt create a massive distraction and manipulate the narrative to his favor. Tens of millions of Trump voters accept whatever he says at verbatim, and the backdrop of a 2nd impeachment I fear will only insulate Trump from the consequences of his attempt to steal the election. Trump will be out of office in 17 days, and fortunately his attempt to steal the election in Congress on Jan 6 will fail. At this point, I think the best thing to do is to ride it out until Trump’s term concludes.

    HCI (92ea66)

  4. A sitting Republican President taped musing an prattling on about criminal behavior? ROFLMAO

    Imagine that…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/09/10/think-trump-tapes-are-worse-than-nixon-tapes-think-again/

    “Impooch With Honor.” – political trinket; dog food bowl, circa 1974

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  5. Trump does not ask Raffensperger to lie. He claims that there is fraud. Raffensperger says Trump is wrong. It’s a standoff.

    Trump’s words are being twisted. There’s no sense in doing that and making something into something it isn’t.

    Trump’s words may be at variance with reality, and he may know that, but he’s not asking Raffensperger to commit a crime. The statement that Raffensperger may be committing a crime if he doesn’t do what Trump says is based on the fantasy Trump is touting an has no independent existence.

    Trump is asking Raffensperger to find just a little bit of the fraud he claims exists. That’s all.

    There is also nothing – no force – behind Trump’s words, like there would be, say, in Mexico where you might be expected to read between the lines. Trump has no hold on Raffensperger.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  6. I just heard on the 4 pm Bloomberg news an excerpt of what Trump said.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  7. @5 Sammy, that’s such a generous interpretation that it’s entirely unbelievable.

    Nic (896fdf)

  8. @3. I’m not sure that impeachment is the best thing to do right now, given that Trump is going to be out of office in 2.5 weeks and there aren’t votes in the Senate to convict.

    The ‘thing to do’ “right now” is put aside the swamp creature mind set and get a stand alone vote done through Congress, get the legislation to the President’s desk for signature and get those damn $2000 checks out to struggling Americans suffering through Covid set backs. That is the priority now: the American people. As my late banker grandfather always said: “Pay yourself first.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  9. 8. Congress can spend money three ways: Print it, tax it, or borrow it. If your priority is to help the American people, you need to start encouraging, Cuomo, Newsom, DiBlasio, and all the other would-be communists in charge of their respective cities and states to let the little guys open their shuttered businesses again. Until that happens, even $2000 is going to be a drop in the ocean — not to mention nothing more than the wealth redistribution that conservatives claimed to hate pre-Trump.

    Gryph (f63000)

  10. 2. If Cruz and Hawley are as intelligent as they want us to believe they are, they’ll keep their yaps shut and pretend it didn’t happen.

    Regardless of what should happen, there will be no impeachment. Trump will leave office honorably (in his own twisted mind, anyway) and Biden will be sworn in on the 20th of January, 2021. I’d bet my next month’s paychecks on it.

    Gryph (f63000)

  11. I wouldn’t want to be the toady who has to tell Trump that Raffensperger was executed for treason before he could fix the election.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  12. 11. Execution for giving aid and comfort to enemies of the United States is a thing? How about all those congressweasels who we know have given aid and comfort to the CCP? Meh.

    Gryph (f63000)

  13. If you recall, Raffensperger burned Lindsey Graham when he made a similar call back in November. I am surprised Trump’s team let their boss make this call. They should have figured this could happen.

    Much as I dislike agreeing in principle with DCSCA, Congress needs to spend its time on supplemental coronavirus relief once we find out how the Georgia senate races go. Impeachment is a waste of time that will accomplish nothing.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  14. Congress should have been spending its time on coronavirus relief in July. And August. And September. And October. And November. it didn’t. why would we expect it to now?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  15. It is no surprise that Trump apologists will demand we change the subject now. $2k bill, whatever. That’s Trump’s only play.

    If I were in Tehran I would be stocking up on first aid supplies.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  16. The effort to find 11,780 votes will go about as well as the effort to find a crime to pin on Trump these past four years.

    Reap the whirlwind.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  17. shorter beer’n pretzels: “because the Democrats were mean to Trump, it’s worth it to destroy the Republic to get back at them.”

    aphrael (4c4719)

  18. Execution for giving aid and comfort to enemies of the United States is a thing?

    Execution for Art. III Sec. 3 Treason is very much a thing, but none of the perpetrators of these anti-democratic, anti-American colloquially treasonous attempts to overturn a free and fair election committed Art. III Sec. 3 Treason. Even Trump, who’s come closer than anyone else, hasn’t come close at all.

    How about all those congressweasels who we know have given aid and comfort to the CCP?

    Lol OK eye-roll.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  19. 18. This is why we can’t have nice things, America.

    Gryph (f63000)

  20. No one has done more to empower the CCP globally than Trump. When the surrender monkey decided that he’d lead America in choosing to relinquish all influence around the globe someone was going to step in.

    I know, I know, what did leadership ever get the US? Certainly not the most powerful and influential economy in the world. How to Win Friends and Influence People is Trump’s model right? It only sold 30X Trump’s super famous book.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  21. @12 It is possible to worry about the corrupting influence of the CCP AND the corrupting influence of the former CCCP AND domestic corrupting influences.

    Nic (896fdf)

  22. shorter beer’n pretzels: “because the Democrats were mean to Trump, it’s worth it to destroy the Republic to get back at them.”

    Shorter aphrael: beer ‘n pretzels said X, but I wish he had said Y.

    Alas, all this heavy breathing will be for naught once Biden takes the oath on the 20th.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  23. Alas, all this heavy breathing will be for naught once Biden takes the oath on the 20th.

    I don’t get this argument. That Trump and his sycophants failed at this means that we should just ignore anything that fails. I don’t want to see you bitchin’ about RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA ever again, or anything a democrat ever doesn’t accomplish again, because it didn’t actually get enacted.

    Attempting this is a big deal, it is an actual crime…and not a misdemeanor.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  24. Memo to Nancy/Andy/Mitch & Chuck:

    Piss on all your “prayers;” -God helps those who help themselves:

    Get the vaccines and $2000 checks into the arms and hands of American citizens.

    “RIGHT NOW.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  25. Speaking of destroying the Republic…….

    The Hill
    @thehill

    “Are we allowed to whisper about the transition to President Harris?” via (@TheHillOpinion)
    http://hill.cm/ctCWXUB
    __ _

    2021 gonna be off the hook!
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  26. Watching CSPAN.

    These people are utterly, hopelessly obtuse and excel at wasting precious time.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  27. #14

    Congress doesn’t do a lot of things it should do. It should have removed Trump in January. It didn’t.

    Given a choice of ways Congress can rectify past failures, I’d rather have them work with the incoming administration on coronavirus issues.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  28. “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
    ― H.L. Mencken

    He is wrong. America is much better than Trump. That’s why Harkin, BnP and Trump have to try so hard to defend stealing an election, over fantasies of President Harris or whatever.

    This whole scandal is precipitated on the fact that Biden beat Trump by seven million votes. Trump actually never represented most of us. He is not us.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  29. “All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.”

    This is just stunning. He’s specifying a specific amount of votes that need to be “found”…It doesn’t matter that they aren’t there. What matters is that Raffensperger sacrifices all of his professional integrity and credibility to “find” them. It’s so like Trump to not care about the moral/ethical/legal factors, let alone that he is not just inviting another individual to participate in his corruption – he expects that individual to do so. Because, that Trump isn’t troubled by lying, and cheating, and behaving unethically, he doesn’t expect anyone else to be concerned either.

    The fact that Raffensperger and his family have been the target of death threats since the election certification, makes Trump’s behavior all the more despicable. There is absolutely no defending this, and anyone who does, reveals themselves as lacking integrity and character.

    Dana (cc9481)

  30. I looked at a headline on that site that cannot be named, and It said Data Scientists Testify blah blah blah…

    Then I looked them up.
    a) Not data scientists, or anything even slightly resembling that:TV Producer, enlisted Navy EWT and programmer, and a guy who is a student in data science. Maybe they have Excel installed, because words have meaning.
    b) They also didn’t testify, because words have meaning.

    That’s why it’s a conspiracy delusion, theory also has a meaning, and these don’t rise to that level.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  31. If your priority is to help the American people, you need to start encouraging, Cuomo, Newsom, DiBlasio, and all the other would-be communists in charge of their respective cities and states to let the little guys open their shuttered businesses again.

    Good one.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  32. America is much better than Trump.

    Except it’s not. Trump is totally American; a wholly Reagan creation, Dustin.

    Try and sell that ‘much better’ sucker bait to a tired fella, rustbelt raised in the go-go gilded Reagan 80s, just off the third shift at Firestone, perched on a barstool in an Akron watering hole sipping his third boilermaker, dreading going home in his 1999 Toyota Tercel– the red one with the right tail light duct-taped on it– to his 1967 built two-storied, leaky-plumbing house his father left him, w/a Roseanne Barr wife cooking up Hamburger Helper meals, w/two dopey kids spaced out on weed and video games– as he dreams of the flashy, trashy lifestyles of the rich and famous Trump, with helicopters galore to ferry him around, hot wives and ex-wives, cool mistresses, stretch limos and plush digs. 74-plus million would disagree w/your premise. And that number will keep growing.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  33. Trump is corrupt scum who cares less about the US, our laws and traditions, or our constitution then he does Trump. Just like Beer n pretzels he equates his attempted theft of an election with a lawfully predicated investigation.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  34. @22, that sounds like a fair summary of your current whatabout

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  35. @29. This is just stunning.

    No.

    This is just stunning:

    “You remember Huston’s plan? Implement it,” [Nixon said, referring to a secret plan to expand government burglary and wiretapping.] “I want it implemented on a thievery basis. Goddamn it, get in and get those files [at the Brookings Institution]. Blow the safe and get it.” – Richard M. Nixon, President of the United States of America, June, 1971.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. Title 52 U.S. Section 20511. That law states: “A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office … knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by … the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held” is subject to imprisonment of up to five years.

    2016 Georgia Code
    Title 21 – Elections
    Chapter 2 – Elections and Primaries Generally
    Article 15 – Miscellaneous Offenses
    § 21-2-597. Intentional interference with performance of election duties
    Universal Citation: GA Code § 21-2-597 (2016)
    Any person who intentionally interferes with, hinders, or delays or attempts to interfere with, hinder, or delay any other person in the performance of any act or duty authorized or imposed by this chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor

    EA Kline (7fe470)

  37. This is just stunning. He’s specifying a specific amount of votes that need to be “found”…It doesn’t matter that they aren’t there.

    I didn’t think it was necessary to say, but Dana’s point is indeed necessary to say. If Trump were just looking for the truth, he wouldn’t order Georgia officials to find a specific number of votes for him. Combine that with his threats, with the full context being crystal clear, and it’s actually the worst thing Trump’s ever done. Somehow he topped himself. Only a massive strike on Iran this week, trading human life for a headline swap, could approach this degree of wrongdoing.

    This is obvious. Trump asked for exactly what he needed, in an outcome. Those who are defending this are crossing a line they can’t uncross. If they do it out of habit for worshiping Trump, they should pause and think about it.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  38. shorter beer’n pretzels: “because the Democrats were mean to Trump, it’s worth it to destroy the Republic to get back at them.”

    Even shorter beer n pretzels: “I will use any pretext to do evil.”

    Patterico (115b1f)

  39. @38: As I’ve stated before, a silver lining in all this is the equating of lawfare with evil. Glad to see others are coming around.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  40. Oh boy what’s going to happen to voter enthusiasm for Georgia republicans this week.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  41. #36

    I don’t see our GOP attorney general going after this one.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  42. @38: As I’ve stated before, a silver lining in all this is the equating of lawfare with evil. Glad to see others are coming around.

    Please define what you think lawfare means.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  43. 40.Oh boy what’s going to happen to voter enthusiasm for Georgia republicans this week.

    They’re going to enthusiastically shout, ‘Where the hell is my $2000 Covid relief check and my vaccine shots?!” 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  44. @39, pretending this anti-democracy corruption is “lawfare” is just adding a step to your whatabout, it’s dishonest, and unamerican. Par for the course with you.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  45. I don’t see our GOP attorney general going after this one.

    There is currently no Attorney General. There is an acting one, and he won’t.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  46. LOL DCSCA, that’s the Team D enthusiasm, my man.

    Team R enthusiasm will be about the same way Ted Cruz feels when Trump tells him what to do. Trump just tried to bully Georgia and I bet a lot of Republicans stay home, those who turn out to vote do so with a wince.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  47. How do you like them peaches

    Dustin (4237e0)

  48. Team R enthusiasm will be about the same way Ted Cruz feels when Trump tells him what to do. Trump just tried to bully Georgia and I bet a lot of Republicans stay home, those who turn out to vote do so with a wince

    Dems have been turning out hard in GA in the early vote. L/P were going for a big day of turnout. That is a mistake. I doubt there will be any ballot splitting, so it’s going to be all or nothing.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  49. Ted Cruz is the comic relief in this story. Someone is going to win one of those golden oscars or whatever, playing an infuriated Ted Cruz having fantasies of telling Trump off to his mirror.

    Not that there’s much of a debate about the recording, but to take Dana’s point one more step, go listen to the call. Pretend that Raffensperger says “yes sir, you got it” to each of Trump’s demands. It’s an insane thought. America deserves to see an impeachment. Let Loeffler’s last vote be to convict.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  50. @46. No, that’s Team ‘Pay Yourself First’ USA outrage, Dustin.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  51. You say “no” a lot

    Dustin (4237e0)

  52. Do you like peaches? I’m assuming no.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  53. I wonder if Trump is going to declare that his call with Raffensperger was “perfect”, just like the one he had with Zelensky.
    Trump’s abuse of power here is breathtaking. I think Biden is holding off on his AG pick for good reason. The longer Trump behaves like a fascist sore loser douchebag, the more likely he’ll pick an AG who will throw the book at Trump.
    Trump needs to be impeached and indicted for over a dozen federal crimes.

    Paul Montagu (a808ee)

  54. With 74,223,744 verified schnitzel slurpers in America, half of who just got $600 and are hopeful for another $2,000, this is not a gold mine Drumpfy is just going to walk away from.

    nk (1d9030)

  55. Biden’s AG, and I’m sure his people already know this, needs to be someone who was formerly in a Senate-confirmed DOJ position, so he can be “acting” from day one even while Graham (and you know he will) drags his confirmation to 2022.

    nk (1d9030)

  56. @52. Never assume, Dustin; Have you ever seen Trump’s ‘Georgia Peach?’

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/03/02/donald-trumps-taj-marla/9720533f-4c18-4b3c-8e61-5c5a22293879/

    She’s quite the dish– makes for a tasty dessert- w/a side of vanilla ice cream to lick up.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  57. @54. Another ‘I love America but just hate Americans’ heard from. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  58. 49.Ted Cruz is the comic relief in this story.

    This should be no surprise to you Dustin; some of the best comics are Canadian-born:

    Leslie Nielsen, Phil Hartman, Russell Peters, Catherine O’Hara, John Candy, Mike Myers, Lorne Michaels… and Jim Carrey.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  59. you know, until today I actually didn’t know what Marla Maples looked like, DCSCA. She is much prettier than Melania. I’m sure Ivanka loves her to death.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  60. @59. No kidding, if you’re into perky blondes– especially videoed pleasantly bouncing in a trot on a treadmill. Though Melania is much better to simply watch walking. Shall miss her comings and goings boarding AF1.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. Trump is asking Raffensperger to find just a little bit of the fraud he claims exists. That’s all.

    No, that isn’t all he’s asking for. “I just want to find 11,780 votes” does not mean “find just a little bit of fraud.” It means find a way to make sure I come out ahead.

    There is also nothing – no force – behind Trump’s words,

    Trump’s words are certainly threatening: “That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you know, you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk … And it’s going to be very costly in many ways.”

    Is it not disturbing to hear such language from the president of the United States while he’s pressuring a state official to engineer a win for him? Isn’t it reasonable to conclude that Raffensberger taped the call in large part as protection from some kind of retaliation when he declines to rig the election for Trump’s sake?

    The fact that Trump “claims” there’s a lot of fraud doesn’t make his demand innocent. He said before the election that if he lost he would regard the outcome as fraudulent.

    Trump might believe with absolute conviction that nothing but cheating could explain his loss, but that isn’t reason to humor his belief or indulge his demands. It’s reason to be appalled and alarmed that someone with such a selfish and delusional view of reality holds the most powerful office in the land.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  62. The longer Trump behaves like a fascist sore loser douchebag, the more likely he’ll pick an AG who will throw the book at Trump.
    Trump needs to be impeached and indicted for over a dozen federal crimes.

    Preach it, brother.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  63. In the full audio of the call, Trump claims one of the reasons why “they” know he won was because of his rally size, 20k-25k people…small problem, he never had more than the 5,500 in Tulsa.

    Lots of other things too he said happened. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE. were conspiracy delusion BS, and Raffensberger calls BS on them.

    Also, it doesn’t matter. GA doesn’t give Trump a win, so it doesn’t even matter.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  64. Just look at this BS.

    But Brad, if you took the minimum numbers where many, many times above the 11,779, and many of those numbers are certified, or they will be certified, but they are certified. And those are numbers that are there, that exist. And that beat the margin of loss, they beat it, I mean, by a lot, and people should be happy to have an accurate count instead of an election where there’s turmoil.

    I mean there’s turmoil in Georgia and other places. You’re not the only one, I mean, we have other states that I believe will be flipping to us very shortly. And this is something that — you know, as an example, I think it in Detroit, I think there’s a section, a good section of your state actually, which we’re not sure so we’re not going to report it yet. But in Detroit, we had, I think it was, 139 percent of the people voted. That’s not too good.

    It’s also funny how Meadows walks back all of Trump’s asks immediately after Trump shuts up.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  65. Trump

    Because what’s the difference between winning the election by two votes and winning it by half a million votes. I think I probably did win it by half a million. You know, one of the things that happened, Brad, is we have other people coming in now from Alabama and from South Carolina and from other states, and they’re saying it’s impossible for you to have lost Georgia. We won. You know in Alabama, we set a record, got the highest vote ever. In Georgia, we set a record with a massive amount of votes. And they say it’s not possible to have lost Georgia.

    And I could tell you by our rallies. I could tell you by the rally I’m having on Monday night, the place, they already have lines of people standing out front waiting. It’s just not possible to have lost Georgia. It’s not possible. When I heard it was close, I said there’s no way. But they dropped a lot of votes in there late at night. You know that, Brad. And that’s what we are working on very, very stringently. But regardless of those votes, with all of it being said, we lost by essentially 11,000 votes, and we have many more votes already calculated and certified, too.

    And so I just don’t know, you know, Mark, I don’t know what’s the purpose. I won’t give Dominion a pass because we found too many bad things. But we don’t need Dominion or anything else. We have won this election in Georgia based on all of this. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, Brad. You know, I mean, having the correct — the people of Georgia are angry. And these numbers are going to be repeated on Monday night. Along with others that we’re going to have by that time, which are much more substantial even. And the people of Georgia are angry, the people of the country are angry. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you’ve recalculated. Because the 2,236 in absentee ballots. I mean, they’re all exact numbers that were done by accounting firms, law firms, etc. And even if you cut ’em in half, cut ’em in half and cut ’em in half again, it’s more votes than we need.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  66. It’s also funny how Meadows walks back all of Trump’s asks immediately after Trump shuts up.

    Maybe he knows something about election law.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  67. Told you so.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. This tape does not stand alone — Trump has been trying to swindle his way to victory since November 4th. He should be impeached for refusing to accept the election results and disparaging the entire process — a process that 44 presidents before him accepted and honored as the People’s decision.

    Trump doesn’t get it, as he hasn’t gotten most things. The best part of impeaching him is that he can be barred from serving in any position of trust or profit going forward. Which would be only just.

    That he has but 17 days to serve would be icing on the cake.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. Heh.

    Raffensperger: Mr. President, the problem you have with social media, they — people can say anything.

    Trump: Oh this isn’t social media. This is Trump media. It’s not social media. It’s really not; it’s not social media. I don’t care about social media. I couldn’t care less. Social media is Big Tech. Big Tech is on your side, you know. I don’t even know why you have a side because you should want to have an accurate election. And you’re a Republican.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  70. I’m not sure that impeachment is the best thing to do right now, given that Trump is going to be out of office in 2.5 weeks and there aren’t votes in the Senate to convict.

    Well, I think there might be, should the GOP decide to be done with their tormentor. And if he won’t STFU there’s always an array of felonies he’s committed over the years.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. About 20 minutes in, you can hear the GA folks getting angry.

    I’m 100% sure that everyone on the GA side is on mute most of the time Trump talks and is yelling at their phone.

    My wife hates it when I do that. Makes the dog bark, and then when you have to talk, you can’t put on the creamy voice to sooth the idiot thats babbling on.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  72. The worst thing about Trump’s scorched-earth defense is that it makes it impossible for Biden to govern from the center. The stage will be set, with the hard Left vs the Trump right. Choose your tribe, there is no middle left.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. The Nimitz just turned around, is heading back towards Iran.

    I don’t think the changed their mind on this Sunday evening in particular just because.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  74. Jan 20th headline: Former President Barricaded in White House, Wife and Child Held Hostage

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. “The worst thing about Trump’s scorched-earth defense is that it makes it impossible for Biden to govern from the center. The stage will be set, with the hard Left vs the Trump right. Choose your tribe, there is no middle left.”
    __

    The funniest thing about the Hard Left is their apologists continual insistence that their lunacy is not a result of their inability to understand facts/history or employ critical thinking but to blame their actions on conservatives. That’s right out of the Alinsky playbook.
    _

    Meanwhile……..

    Washington Examiner
    @dcexaminer
    ·
    A prayer opening the 117th Congress concluded, “Amen and a woman.”

    “Amen” translates to “so be it.”
    _

    2021 gonna be off the hook!
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  76. @73: Maybe Trump is going to start a war on Jan 19th.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. Biden can easily govern from the center. All he needs is for some important Republicans, particularly in the Senate, to openly break with Trump. And ultimately they will, if Trump keeps this up.

    Now losing te two Senate seats in Georgia will make governing from the center a bit less likely, because Biden maybe won’t need McConnell. But it’s almost two years till the next Congressional election so the Republicans have time to recover their reputation.

    Somebody needs to clean up the Republican Party the way Ronald Reagan cleaned up the Screen Actor’s Guild. But maybe Trump will go too far.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  78. 68.This tape does not stand alone — Trump has been trying to swindle his way to victory since November 4th. He should be impeached for refusing to accept the election results and disparaging the entire process — a process that 44 presidents before him accepted and honored as the People’s decision.

    Step away from the bong, Nixon Apologist:

    https://freepress.org/article/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason

    George Will confirms Nixon’s Vietnam Treason

    “The new release of extended versions of Nixon’s papers now confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a “conspiracy theory” by Republican conservatives. Now it has been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist George Will. Nixon’s newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  79. 76. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/3/2021 @ 5:34 pm

    Maybe Trump is going to start a war on Jan 19th.

    Iran will do everything to avoid that until noon, Eastern Standard Time, Wednesday, January 20, 2021.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  80. Biden has complained that the people in the Department of Defense are not briefing his people – he also had that complaint about the Office of Management and Budget. At OMB maybe all they’re doing is giving people semi-civil service jobs, where they need to be removed for cause.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  81. @73. Maybe Trump is going to start a war on Jan 19th.

    Why worry; John ‘reporting for duty’ Kerry will be on the job after lunch on January 20th. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  82. I thought Raffensperger handled the call perfectly. He only said a few things, while letting Trump ramble on. When there was dead air, the SecState held his tongue and let Trump fill it. Masterful.
    In other words, it was a perfect call, just not for Trump.
    Another thing. I didn’t hear whose recording it was, Trump’s or Raffensperger’s. I’m guessing it was the latter, and that he or someone in his office leaked it.

    Paul Montagu (9a139d)

  83. 80. Plagiarists excel at complaining; hence they steal the work product of others.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  84. Wait

    Would this phone call have leaked at all, if Trump hadn’t been yapping on twitter, lying about what they really talked about?

    Is that why this happened?

    hahahahahahaha This is truly awesome. Merry Christmas everyone.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  85. I’m going to say after listening to the whole thing, he’s not directly asking Brad to give him the win directly.

    Trump’s lawyers are asking GA officials to break GA’s privacy laws, over and over again.

    Also, the ask from Trump doesn’t actually do anything, there is no request that could change a single vote.

    Trump: Well, why don’t my lawyers show you where you got the information. It will show the secretary of state, and you don’t even have to look at any names. We don’t want names. We don’t care. But we got that information from you. And Stacey Abrams is laughing about you. She’s going around saying these guys are dumber than a rock. What she’s done to this party is unbelievable, I tell you. And I only ran against her once. And that was with a guy named Brian Kemp, and I beat her. And if I didn’t run, Brian wouldn’t have had even a shot, either in the general or in the primary. He was dead, dead as a doornail. He never thought he had a shot at either one of them. What a schmuck I was. But that’s the way it is. That’s the way it is. I would like you . . . for the attorneys . . . I’d like you to perhaps meet with Ryan, ideally tomorrow, because I think we should come to a resolution of this before the election. Otherwise you’re going to have people just not voting. They don’t want to vote. They hate the state, they hate the governor, and they hate the secretary of state. I will tell you that right now. The only people that like you are people that will never vote for you. You know that, Brad, right? They like you, you know, they like you. They can’t believe what they found. They want more people like you. So, look, can you get together tomorrow? And, Brad, we just want the truth. It’s simple.

    And everyone’s going to look very good if the truth comes out. It’s okay. It takes a little while, but let the truth come out. And the real truth is, I won by 400,000 votes. At least. That’s the real truth. But we don’t need 400,000 votes. We need less than 2,000 votes. And are you guys able to meet tomorrow, Ryan?

    Germany: I’ll get with Chris, the lawyer who’s representing us in the case, and see when he can get together with Kurt.

    Raffensperger: Ryan will be in touch with the other attorney on this call, Mr. Meadows. Thank you, President Trump, for your time.

    Trump: Okay, thank you, Brad. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you very much. Bye.

    I would say he’s always been, and continues to be, a schuck.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  86. At OMB maybe all they’re doing is giving people semi-civil service jobs, where they need to be removed for cause.

    All that needs to mean, Sammy, is that three or four years from now, after they have gone through all the hearings, appeals, and court cases for wrongful termination, is that the taxpayers might have to give them six months of back pay and pension credits. Biden does not need to keep them there to sabotage his administration.

    nk (1d9030)

  87. @82 — Trumpers on Parler are telling themselves that Trump was cleverly setting up Raffensberger, in preparation for charging him with a raft of crimes. I almost have to admire that contortionist logic in service to their god-king.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  88. @42: Please define what you think lawfare means.

    Lawfare is when your side violates the norms to overturn an election.

    Stealing is when the other side does it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  89. 61. Radegunda (b6cc34) — 1/3/2021 @ 4:41 pm

    Isn’t it reasonable to conclude that Raffensberger taped the call in large part as protection from some kind of retaliation when he declines to rig the election for Trump’s sake?

    Raffensberger taped it because he didn;t know what Trump was going to say and he wanted Trump not to lie about what was said, and also maybe to protect himself from criminal liability.

    The fact that Trump “claims” there’s a lot of fraud doesn’t make his demand innocent.

    It isn;t innocent – or at any rate honest, but it means you can;t draw too much out of Trump saying he only needs a little change in the voting results. And every time he says that he says there was really a lot more.

    I see he says people in Alabama and South Carolina tell him there’s no way he could lose or have lost Georgia. I wonder why he doesn’t say Florida or North Carolina: that is, how could he win those state sand lose Georgia???

    But there are people who will give him a good politicsl explanation if he wants one. That’s another thing that needs to be in encyclopedia.

    I’m still wondering why hes afraid to mention Florida and North Carolina but cites southern states where he won by big margins.

    Trump might believe with absolute conviction that nothing but cheating could explain his loss, but that isn’t reason to humor his belief or indulge his demands.

    Who ever said it was? But he can;t really believe it. He’s not that stupid.

    He might believe, in a crazy way, that if maintains something hard enough, it might come true. Steve Jobs was maybe like that.

    It’s reason to be appalled and alarmed that someone with such a selfish and delusional view of reality holds the most powerful office in the land.

    And amazed at how, for the most part, sensible things tended to happen during his administration. Except on immigration.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  90. Lawfare is when your side violates the norms to overturn an election.

    Stealing is when the other side does it

    So your meaning has actually nothing to do with the word you’re using. I’m not surprised.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  91. After reading and listening to call, it should be even more abundantly clear to everyone that Trump doesn’t care about any semblance of truth. His “strong-arm” tactics are more comical than anything, but what should give us all pause is that he treats election number just as he treats covid number. They’re just numbers to spun and adjusted to what he wants instead of as means to search for truth and answers. This is not man we should be having making any kind of decisions of consequence. He needs to go pronto because he’s a clear and present danger.

    tla (34ebeb)

  92. lawfare is when the law does not allow schnitzel-slurpers to slurp their schnitzel in peace

    can’t i just slurp my schnitzel, they cry plaintively

    slurp, slurp, slurp

    mmm-mmm good schnitzel, they sigh contentedly

    nk (1d9030)

  93. @90 did you honestly expect him to have an intelligent, principled answer?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  94. nk @86.

    There’s an executive order regarding creating a new category of government job that takes effect on January 19.

    https://www.wral.com/an-attempt-to-sabotage-trumps-potential-purge-of-career-employees-casts-pall-across-federal-government/19412772/?version=amp

    I’m not clear if this makes them easier or harder to fire. Maybe they’re making some people more vulnerable and others less vulnerable.

    Are they saying Trump is going to fire a lot of people right before he leaves and move his political appointees in to replace them?

    He’s creating a new Schedule F.

    https://www.federaltimes.com/management/2020/12/09/former-omb-employees-critique-fundamentally-damaging-schedule-f-plans

    Plans to convert approximately 88 percent of the Office of Management and Budget’s employees to the newly established Schedule F could cause long term damage to the agency’s ability to serve presidential administrations, according to a letter signed by 20 former career and political OMB employees.

    The conversions are based on a late October executive order signed by President Donald Trump that instructs agencies to convert employees in policy-facing positions out of the civil service and into a new excepted service category, which would make those employees much easier to fire and hire.

    Now what would make sense if he got a second term does not make sense if some other president succeeds him. So he must be making it harder, not easier, for Joe Biden to fire them.

    It’s really not clear.

    https://www.govexec.com/management/2020/12/white-house-steps-schedule-f-implementation-lawmakers-dont-get-it/170722

    “This is not something that you can just reverse instantly,” said Jason Briefel, director of policy and outreach at the Senior Executives Association. “Putting someone who has been fired under Schedule F back on the payrolls will take at least one pay cycle, so even if it’s just the 400-plus people at OMB, it will be two to three weeks until they can be put back to work if they were fired. You could not possibly do it faster, and the scale of the logistical nightmare grows exponentially with the number of employees affected.”

    A pair of new developments could further complicate efforts to roll back the provisions of the Schedule F order. President Trump issued a memorandum on Thursday [Dec. 10] changing the order of succession at the Office of Personnel Management, elevating the chief of staff to be next in line when the OPM director and deputy director resign or otherwise depart office. On that same day, OPM promoted its White House liaison, Paul Dans, into the chief of staff role…

    .,,,One possibility would be that Dans or Kirk could burrow into a career position at the agency, or declare their jobs part of Schedule F, Kettl said. In the latter case, the Biden administration’s efforts to rescind the executive order could serve as the impetus for a lawsuit, since the executive order preserves actions taken on the basis of an employee’s political affiliation as a prohibited personnel practice.

    “Suppose that they decide to convert political appointees into Schedule F and then dare the incoming administration to fire them,” Kettl said. “That would create the opportunity for a court case, where the Biden people would argue that Schedule F was illegal to begin with, but that in many ways would play directly into the hands of the people who believe the Constitution grants the president the right to fire federal employees for any reason . . . So then what may be happening is an effort to make an opportunity to try to litigate that issue.”

    I think they can’t quite figure out what’s going on.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  95. But he can;t really believe it. He’s not that stupid.

    So, he’s lying about what he really believes, in the hope that his lies will help overturn an election he knows he lost fair and square? I don’t see what’s reassuring about that.

    And it isn’t so much a question of whether he’s “stupid” enough to believe he really won by a landslide. It’s that he is psychologically warped enough to believe that he can’t possibly ever lose a fair contest, and that any defeat or disappointment or unflattering comment he faces is a sin against truth and justice.

    Once more: Trump is a pathological narcissist who lacks the mental ability to recognize a standard of truth and goodness any higher than his own self-interest. And that’s a more serious problem than either stupidity or garden-variety dishonesty.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  96. 55. nk (1d9030) — 1/3/2021 @ 4:17 pm

    Biden’s AG, and I’m sure his people already know this, needs to be someone who was formerly in a Senate-confirmed DOJ position, so he can be “acting” from day one even while Graham (and you know he will) drags his confirmation to 2022.

    Doesn;t hhe have to e currently in a Senate-confirmed position?

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  97. sensible things tended to happen during his administration. Except on immigration.

    I was say that being concerned only about his image and re-election when he faced a real challenge with serious consequences for the citizenry was not sensible — for starters.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  98. Impeachment is not the proper remedy at this time. Better to let Trump and his cult of sycophants make fools of themselves. He’ll be out of office at noon on January 20. Nothing is going to prevent that. Then let the prosecutions begin, and there will be many in several states, crimes for which he can’t pardon himself even if he tried.

    I don’t get why he’s obsessed with Georgia. Maybe it’s because of the runoffs for the Senate, an exercise in malignant narcissism.

    Lynyrd Skynyrd sang it best in their cover of a J J Cale song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsf_z5zwCn4

    Well I dig you Georgia peaches
    Make me feel right at home
    Well now I dig you Georgia peaches
    Make me feel right at home
    But I don’t love me no one woman
    So I can’t stay in Georgia long

    An election was held. It was a referendum on the president. Trump lost, bigly. Actually, the term was big league, but he couldn’t pronounce it correctly.

    Let him throw his infantile fit. Let the Republicans wallow in their sorrow. It will all be over soon. Then we’ll have another president and party to complain about.

    The. Worst. President. Ever. You know who that is, right? It’s the incumbent, whoever is in office. Been that way since the days of Washington. Trump, however, holds a special place in history. He will exit office as the most incompetent and corrupt president this country ever elected. Hold the Republican party to blame.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  99. 95.

    So, he’s lying about what he really believes, in the hope that his lies will help overturn an election he knows he lost fair and square? I don’t see what’s reassuring about that.

    The lies are pathetic. It’s reassuring compared to the idea he has some plan.

    I think it’s more like tla said @91:

    Trump doesn’t care about any semblance of truth. His “strong-arm” tactics are more comical than anything, but what should give us all pause is that he treats election number just as he treats covid number. They’re just numbers to [be] spun and adjusted to what he wants instead of as means to search for truth and answers.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  100. Trump is a pathological narcissist who lacks the mental ability to recognize a standard of truth and goodness any higher than his own self-interest. And that’s a more serious problem than either stupidity or garden-variety dishonesty.

    Amen

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  101. I would also say that pushing anyone but the most slavishly devoted yes-men out of the administration was not sensible either.

    Some people who left have said that successful outcomes were generally a consequence of Trump not being involved, and that it was a constant struggle to pull him back from something really reckless and boneheaded, or “criminally stupid” as one put it. Instructing subordinates to do something illegal and saying they’ll be pardoned is not something a sensible leader does.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  102. Doesn;t hhe have to e currently in a Senate-confirmed position?

    Opinions differ, but Matthew Whittaker was not, and he survived the lawsuits.

    nk (1d9030)

  103. 97.Radegunda (b6cc34) — 1/3/2021 @ 6:31 pm

    I was say that being concerned only about his image and re-election when he faced a real challenge with serious consequences for the citizenry was not sensible — for starters.

    He actually did pretty good, compared to doing nothing, in sccelerating the development of a vaccine and of neutralizing monoclonal antibodies. But not good enough.

    Bad was trying to say it would soon be over – but Dr. Fauci was doing the same thing in the hopes people would agree to a lockdown.

    Trump was concerned about his re-election, of course, and he also tended to believe that it depended on the economy, so he hated shutdowns. He wanted to end Covid not because he cared for itself (with maybe a few exceptions) but because he thought it would help his re-election or prevent his defeat.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  104. 101.

    Some people who left have said that successful outcomes were generally a consequence of Trump not being involved, and that it was a constant struggle to pull him back from something really reckless and boneheaded, or “criminally stupid” as one put it.

    But, for the most part they succeeded. Not only that, but policy was better than that of an average president on most matters. Even a lot of the bad things, like on trade, got reversed.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  105. You knew this temper tantrum lawfare was coming…

    President @realDonaldTrump has filed two lawsuits – federal and state – against @GaSecofState. The telephone conference call @GaSecofState secretly recorded was a “confidential settlement discussion” of that litigation, which is still pending.

    Paul Montagu (9a139d)

  106. It was a perfect phone call.

    Rip Murdock (8bf811)

  107. Has he, or did someone say he had?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  108. @105-
    Not sure that tweet is true. I couldn’t find on Trump’s Twitter feed.

    Rip Murdock (8bf811)

  109. @105 I hope a lawyer writes about this but I find the idea a “settlement” between the GA Sec State and Presidential Candidate over a election comically preposterous. There’s no horse trading or at least there shouldn’t be, but I’m no constitutional lawyer (or lawyer at all for that matter).

    tla (34ebeb)

  110. @105 How much money has Trump cost Georgia tax payers now? (And I’m just talking about the money the state has spent dealing with his hissy fit, not the amount Trump conned them out of directly.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  111. 102. I don’t think the fact that Matthew Whitaker had once been, during the Bush II Administration,
    United States Attorney for the Southern District of Iowa added anything to the legal case that Trump could install him as Acting Attorney general. He was considered non-Senate confirmed.

    I think Acting positions get more weight when a president officially nominates someone for the post – or maybe that is only in the case of a recess appointment.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  112. a) It wasn’t
    b) Settlement for what? There’s nothing pending with these parties.
    c) Lot’s of people on the call, so confidential about what, again settlement between whom?
    d) Trump tweeted that he had this and X was said
    e) No way would any of these people from GA be allowed to sign any confidentiality agreement.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  113. Law & Crime tracks down the GA state laws that Trump broke, and they’re not subject to presidential pardon.

    Paul Montagu (9a139d)

  114. 100.Trump is a pathological narcissist who lacks the mental ability to recognize a standard of truth and goodness any higher than his own self-interest. And that’s a more serious problem than either stupidity or garden-variety dishonesty.

    ROFLMAO. Shorter: Reaganoptics:

    “A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.” – Ronald Reagan, admitting the Iran-Contra Affair, March 1987

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  115. @105, 107-
    Since Trump has posted the phone call on Twitter, I doubt he will be suing anybody.

    Rip Murdock (8bf811)

  116. 108. David Shafer didn’t tweet that Trump said that in a tweet. He tweeted that Trump said that the conversation was a confidential settlement discussion in a lawsuit or court papers he filed.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  117. Schnitzel-slurper lie, that tweet is, my opinion is.

    nk (1d9030)

  118. #45 (col klink)

    My comment was not clear. The violations cited are of Georgia election law, which would be prosecuted here. I don’t see the Georgia attorney general (an elective office) going after Trump. The GOP behavior I have seen is that honorable behavior happens only when the poor GOP official would be actively helping Trump with his coup. When the GOP official isn’t required to really be responsible for anything, he seems able to be all Trumpy.

    I live in Georgia so I’m guilty of saying “our” when talking about the local election situation.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  119. Trump posted a claim about what he and Raffensperger said on Twitter, not the entire conversation.

    He said Raffensperger “was unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the “ballots under table” scam, ballot destruction, out of state “voters”, dead voters, and more. He has no clue!”

    Now we have the conversation. Or do we?

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  120. There’s enough wishywashy in Trump’s requests that it’s probably not prosecutable. It’s despicable, it’s obviously he’s repeating the crazy delusions as if they are facts, and that he knows what the batches of votes actually are, and making claims like he won by 400k etc.

    It’s 100% impeachable though.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  121. He wouldn’t get convicted by a Georgia jury, anyway.

    nk (1d9030)

  122. Just so you know, Trump isn’t completely obsessed with his fascist attempt to reclaim the presidency. He found time to give Presidential Medals of Freedom Sycophantic Loyalty to Jim Jordan and Devin Nunes. Their lives for him.
    Every he touches, he corrupts.

    Paul Montagu (9a139d)

  123. “You knew this temper tantrum lawfare was coming…”

    It should come as no surprise that David Shafer is lying.

    Davethulhu (95ea9f)

  124. There’s a news blackout at Hotair and Instapundit and Townhall, although swc at RedState wrote a skeptical account. It’s as if orders were given from Salem.
    I guess that’s how it works in right-wing media.

    Paul Montagu (9a139d)

  125. RIP Tanya Roberts (65) and Gerry Mardsen MBE (78).

    Rip Murdock (8bf811)

  126. If the Senate had convicted in January, we wouldn’t be going through this now. Pence would not have tried to steal the election if he’d lost.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  127. Tom Cotton has picked his lane.
    The 21st century equivalent of a most northern southern man (most elitist populist man?).

    urbanleftbehind (e436d2)

  128. The trumpist lane was getting crowded. Can Cruz be any more pathetic? Not only can he not feign principles, but he also looks like a tag along as hawleys bag man . So pathetic.

    tla (34ebeb)

  129. Listening to this call goes a long way in explaining the kind of pressure that was put by the President on Senators to overturn the will of voters on Jan 6th.

    Spineless all.

    nate (1f1d55)

  130. Nanzi got only 216 democrats to vote for her with 209 republicans and 5 democrats voting against her. 1 republican dead and the other 4 she must have locked in a closet. I think she refused to seat the republicans from Iowa 2 and NY.

    asset (de58b6)

  131. One of the races hasn’t been called yet, either. It’s a super tight race in upstate New York.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  132. Nancy Pelosi has said she is going to seat the Iowa Republican tentatively as she says the House rules state. This is no time to try to disregard certifications. Yes, a case can be made that she can’t be re-elected Speaker. That case is almost certainly flawed.

    Re: lanes. It’s been said that the only Senators who are going along with Ted Cruz are interested in running for president or afraid of primaries. That probably does not explain the incoming Senators, but they may think the Trump wing of the Republican Party will predominate. (They don’t know the Senate)

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  133. 127, 128. My comment that Missouri shares a border with Arkansas must have hit home. (You’re welcome.) You know that Missouri never quite managed to secede from the Union the last time, either.

    nk (1d9030)

  134. Patterico,

    I agree with you that what Trump did with this call is impeachable. But I don’t think there is time for the house to convene, hear witnesses, and vote in the house, before Jan 20. We know the GOP controlled senate is corrupt and doesn’t care about this. After he’s no longer president the impeachment is moot.

    I did read on twitter that Pelosi has modified the rules for standing committees to conduct oversight.

    In a sign that Trump and Vice President Mike Pence may soon be targeted in the House’s oversight efforts, the rules would add explicit language clarifying that the House committees’ subpoena authority allows panels to subpoena current or former presidents and vice presidents in their personal or official capacities.

    The language also clarifies that any current and former White House employees can be subpoenaed as well.

    Several Trump administration officials ignored congressional subpoenas during the 116th Congress, claiming executive privilege exempted them from testifying or turning over certain documents. The House said those claims had no merit, but adding explicit language to the rules clarifying its authority would help bolster their case if subpoenas end up litigated in the courts.

    The rules also give the Intelligence Committee and every standing committee the authority to order its staff counsel or any member of the committee to take witness depositions. Member presence is not required, but they are allowed to participate.

    Depositions were used in the early portion of the House’s impeachment inquiry last year to get information from witnesses, before some were later called back to testify in public hearings.

    This is about the only rules changes I’ve seen that i think are positive, the rest are either small ball IMO (Such as changing boilerplate language from brother/sister to sibling) or bad, such as the elimination of Paygo. I know it’s been effectively pointless but i’d still rather have it on the books.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  135. Just so you know, Trump isn’t completely obsessed with his fascist attempt to reclaim the presidency. He found time to give Presidential Medals of Freedom Sycophantic Loyalty to Jim Jordan and Devin Nunes. Their lives for him.
    Every he touches, he corrupts.

    Paul Montagu (9a139d) — 1/3/2021 @ 7:37 pm

    Jim Jordan showed his lack of character long ago in his involvement in covering up sex abuse at Ohio State. Trump isn’t to blame for that scum bag.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  136. 16 days simply isn’t enough time to hold an impeachment trial. The House will vote to indict, probably within a week, but the Senate will not vote to convict. That cretins like Cruz are defending their decision to challenge the electoral vote on Wednesday is proof of that.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/03/ted-cruz-presidential-election-challenge-calm-down-453842

    Their charade of sycophancy is doomed to fail, at most it will delay the certification of Biden and Harris for a few hours. Two weeks later, at noon on January 20, Biden will be sworn in. Nothing is going to prevent that.

    However, Trump has exposed himself to prosecution for several state and federal crimes.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/03/trump-georgia-election-454122

    Having listened to this phone call and read the transcripts, Trump comes across as positively delusional, completely detached from reality, and criminally deranged. Politically, he is damaging the Republican party, perhaps beyond repair.

    He may well have cost the Gratuitously Obsequious Party, control of the Senate, which would be a fitting end to his presidency.

    It makes Don Quixote tilting at windmills, thinking they’re dragons, seem sane. But then Cervantes was more of a comic than a tragic writer. By definition, a tragedy is a tale of a downfall, from high place to low due to an inherent character flaw. King Lear comes to mind. But this is not a tragedy, because although Trump was able to achieve a high place, he was of low character to begin with. He does have an inherent character flaw in that he has no character. Everything about him is a complete and total fraud. His character was invented by lies. A ghost writer wrote his book, and now regrets it, and his image of a successful CEO on Reality TV was scripted. Also, this is not a comedy, because by definition a comedy is humorous tale that reveals an underlying truth. The Miller’s Tale comes to mind. That is a hilarious tale, a perfect example of Chaucerian irony. This is not that, although the ending would be apt.

    No, this is not a tragedy or a comedy, or even a tragi-comedy. What this is is sheer hypocrisy, and there is no literary genre for that, unless you include The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon or If On a Winter’s Night a Traveler by Italo Calvino.

    The story of Trump is one of abject failure, corruption and criminality. He will be out of office soon, so let the state prosecutions begin. The Manhattan DA and the New York AG are accelerating their investigation, I suspect the Georgia AG will as well. It wouldn’t surprise me if New Jersey, Illinois, Virginia, the District of Columbia, and Florida didn’t follow as well.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  137. Finally.

    Yes, there is finally proof of mass voter fraud. Thank you, Mr. President.

    noel (5c4840)

  138. From the moment Trump freaked that FNC called Arizona, to yesterday, there have been hundreds of calls like this. This is all Trump has been doing. It’s why the vaccine roll-out has turned into a mess with no plan.

    I bet these calls worked some of the time. Plenty of Republicans want money and access, or are cowards to Trump’s threats. Cruz got a call like this in 2016, and it must have worked. McConnell may have gotten one recently and said no.

    Biden announced he would never embarass a GOP senator. I think there is a powerful notion that these folks should keep these calls confidential, and indeed you see a ton of Trump fanatics insist that this is important. I see it the other way. I think these kinds of calls should always be recorded by a third party, much the same way police are required to use a body camera with limited exceptions (national security exceptions). Calls with national security information should be transcribed, redacted only as necessary, and posted on the internet.

    If you want to know why the GOP became bizarre, kinda creepy, as GG says, obsequious, it’s backroom stuff like this. If you want to save the government, politicians should be treated more like cops when it comes to trusting them to do their job without accountability for what they say.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  139. The call from Trump to Raffensperger (and some other Georgia election officials) took place on Saurday, January 2, 2021 and lasted approximately one hour.

    The New York Times put up a transcript of the call, from which they edited out (redacted) the name of one election worker whom he accused of fraud.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

    If you want only selected highlights, the New York Times put one here:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-georgia-call-excerpts.html

    Trump claims he couldn’t have lost Georgia because he has crowds at his rallies (going by rally size is one very well known way politicians can fool themselves. This is elementary. It’a amateurish to look at that.)

    Trump says the people of Georgia are angry. He doesn’t precisely say what they are angry about.

    Trump claims that there is s rumor that they shredded ballots in Fulton County. He doesn;t go into detail about what the whole scheme supposedly was (I think it has to do with supposedly preventing further recounts or maybe scrutiny of ballots to see if ballots filled out individually by hand truly were)

    Trump says that also (there is a rumor?) that Dominion took out machines. He doesn’t explain more, but this seems to me to a reprise of the idea that DNC server was taken by Crowdstrike to Ukraine, and was there now, and if they had the server they could determine things. It’s nonsense at a technical level, but it sounds to an uninformed person like it might mean something. CSI: Atlanta.

    It’s not even connected with the same theories of fraud being used elsewhere.

    When an election official tells him that Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County Trump asks if maybe they moved the inner parts of the machines and replaced them with other parts. He is told no Trump aaks if the person telling him that is sure. Trump asks about the shredded ballots. He is told that was in Cobb County (not Fulton County – Cobb County is just west of Fulton County) and was stuff from previous elections (i.e. nothing is missing) Trump then says “we hear” they’re shredding thousands and thousands of ballots, and the idea they were just cleaning up the office doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  140. Time123 @136.

    16 days simply isn’t enough time to hold an impeachment trial.

    If the situation was bad enough, and the sentiment unanimous enough, Congress could do it. It could do it in 3 days or less.

    I think Kevin M pointed out that impeachment does not merely remove someone from office – it also can (it doesn’t have to) disqualify someone from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the Unites States (that is, the federal government) so you could use it to eliminate the possibility of Donald Trump ever being elected president of the United States again.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  141. At the beginning of the call, Mark Meadows says “everyone is on the line” and I think that’s really funny now.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  142. Their charade of sycophancy is doomed to fail, at most it will delay the certification of Biden and Harris for a few hours

    They’re challenging six states, (GA, PA, AZ, NV, WI, and MI) so you could have 6×2 = 12 hours of debate. Simultaneously in the House and the Senate. No more than 5 minutes for any one speaker about any one state’s electoral votes. If all these six states were excluded from the Electoral College, that wold make the result Trump, 232, Biden 227 and you could argue Trump was the winner. (I’m explaining why they reached for six and stopped at six.)

    Or you could argue 270 were still needed and the House, voting by states, would decide who was president, while the Senate, divided 51-48 in favor of the Republicans, would decide who was Vice president.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  143. You have to really examine Trump’s word salad.

    Trump seems to be saying that he has affidavits from Republican politicians in Georgia and elsewhere that there is no way they did better than Trump, so Trump must have had votes stolen from him, (but only him!)

    ….We won every statehouse in the country. We held the Senate, which is shocking to people, although we’ll see what happens tomorrow or in a few days. And we won the House, but we won every single statehouse, and we won Congress, which was supposed to lose 15 seats, and they gained I think 16 or 17 or something. I think there’s now a difference of five. There was supposed to be a difference of substantially more. But politicians in every state, but politicians in Georgia, have given affidavits, and are going to — that, that there was no way they beat me in the — in the election, that the people came out — in fact, they were expecting to lose. And then, they ended up winning by a lot because of the coattails, and they said there’s no way, that they’ve done many polls prior to the election.

    By beat me, he doesn’t mean Biden beat Trump, but that downballot Republicans outpolled Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  144. Trump’s arithmetic:

    Out of state voters: 4,925. (that is what he claimed, not necessarily factual)

    Absentee ballots sent to vacant addresses: 2,326.

    Dead voter: (close to) 5,000

    Hand waving: 287,749

    Total: 300,000 false, ineligible votes. Many, many times the 11,779 margin of victory for Joe Biden in Georgia.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  145. So… finally just got my head around this.

    First off, Raffensperger and his family getting death threats ought to be condemned by all as strong as possible. There’s literally zero excuses for that.

    Secondly, there’s no excusing Trump here…he’s flat out wrong to pressure Raffensperger in this manner and good for Raffenspergers for releasing the taped conversation.

    whembly (fcc090)

  146. #143 —

    When I examine Trump’s word salad, I get a three year old’s cry that people are treating him very unfairly and that he’ll get those meanies back someday.

    Trump’s word salad is pretext for give me that second term I didn’t win.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  147. Correction: Somewhere Trump must have category with 11,898 votes, because a lawyer for Trump says the total of four specific categories adds up to 24,149.

    Trump complains that in Georgia, unlike other states, people who were told that they had already voted, (probably in reality that they had requested absentee ballots) were not able to cast provisional ballots. But that’s state law. (They could surrender their absentee ballot and vote the regular way. Provisional ballots are allowed by state law, says Raffensperger. Maybe that’s in other circumstances, or perhaps even when someone denies an absentee ballot was even requested. The New York Times said in a tabulation of state rules on October 31 that a person in Georgia who requested an absentee ballot could not vote by provisional ballot)

    Trump’s implying that their names were used by fraudsters

    Trump claims that, at some unspecified point, a large batch of overseas or military ballots came in that was 100 percent for Biden – which Raffensperger and other election officials indicate that they know nothing about.

    Trump claims that Stacey Abrams is laughing and going about saying, ‘These guys are dumber than a rock.’

    Mark Meadows says he can promise them that there are more than just two dead people who voted, like Raffensperger says is all he found. (they’re not really disputing that, but may dispute that it reaches into the 4,000 to 5,000 level, and anyway that would not be enough to upset the election even if they all “voted” alike.)

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  148. @134 Technically Time, the House could still start up impeachment hearings at any time. Remember, a conviction at the Senate would bar Trump from running for office again.

    Not sure if Biden would want it during his honeymoon though….

    whembly (fcc090)

  149. Sammy (#147):

    A couple of things from this Georgia voter…

    1. People over age 65 received absentee ballots whether requested or not here in GA.

    2. I initially requested an absentee ballot for the Senate runoff, then decided to vote early in person. The election official was able to cancel the absentee ballot in the system, and let me vote a real ballot.

    I really don’t think Trump’s continuing parade of assertions deserve attention. If he’s ever accurate, it’s accidental.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  150. You know what they did and you’re not reporting it.

    Maybe only a lawyer could read this as trying to get votes illegally.

    BillPasadena (5b0401)

  151. And now we know the secret of the Drumpfelschnitzel’s success. From a one-hour long telephone conversation, transcript provided, his supporters only pick up “You know what they did and you’re not reporting it.”

    nk (1d9030)

  152. One of the most revealing moments of the call:

    Raffensperger: Mr. President, the problem you have with social media, they — people can say anything.

    Trump: Oh this isn’t social media. This is Trump media.

    Trump actually believes that a genuinely reliable media outlet is one that’s 100 percent in his corner, by definition. He believes that serving Trump = serving truth.

    The fact that he truly believes it doesn’t vindicate him. It means that his thought processes are antithetical to governing in the national interest. If he has done some things that were beneficial, it was by accident — just as “If he’s ever accurate, it’s accidental.” (h/t Appalled)

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  153. @150 — I’m not a lawyer, and I see the call as putting pressure on the secretary of state to engineer a win for Trump.
    If Trump chooses to believe he could not conceivably have lost an election except by fraud, that doesn’t make his efforts innocent. It makes him delusional and dangerous.
    Trump is accusing someone who voted for him and donated to his campaign of deliberately and criminally falsifying election results to hurt him. And Raffensberger isn’t the only one who is getting the wrath of Trump and his cult followers for doing a job honestly. It’s shameful that such people are being beaten up by fanatics who extend infinite indulgence to Trump and think we should feel for him because he really believes he was cheated.

    Maybe the law makes allowances for insanity in the commission of a crime, but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing wrong with the action per se. It means that the potential for the insane to do further damage needs to be circumscribed.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  154. If the situation was bad enough, and the sentiment unanimous enough, Congress could do it. It could do it in 3 days or less.

    There is always “Impeachment, the Short Form”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  155. The US Attorney for North Georgia has resigned. No details given.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  156. 149 Appalled (1a17de) — 1/4/2021 @ 8:10 am

    Sammy (#147):

    A couple of things from this Georgia voter…

    1. People over age 65 received absentee ballots whether requested or not here in GA.

    The New York Times actually did not say anything about under what circumstances absentee ballots were mailed out. I assumed it had to be asked for in all cases because Georgia was not one of those states (like I think New Jersey and maybe California) that was mailing it out to every registered voter. I was trying to figure out what was behind Trump’s claim that people were being denied the possibility to use provisional ballots – what was the truth that Trump was distorting.

    2. I initially requested an absentee ballot for the Senate runoff, then decided to vote early in person. The election official was able to cancel the absentee ballot in the system, and let me vote a real ballot.

    The New York Times wasn’t clear – they were fitting things into a table – and I’m not to surprised they didn’t get it completely right. Were you allowed to vote regularly only because the absentee ballot hadn’t yet been mailed?

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  157. Here is what the New York Times said on Election Day about the way the votes will come in in Georgia:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/upshot/the-election-night-by-hour.html

    Georgia

    This one often counts slowly. The early in-person votes usually come first, and usually in rural areas. Don’t be surprised to see Mr. Trump take the early lead. Then we’ll have to wait — first for the Atlanta-area counties to report at all, and then for the more Democratic absentee votes. This one could take all night.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  158. This is the table the New York Times printed (Updated through November 7)

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/upshot/vote-counting-today-polls-election.html

    State Georgia

    (Rating before election) tossup [Note: Florida and North Carolina were also labeled tossups]

    Timing of results: A small number of absentee, provisional and overseas military ballots remain uncounted. The secretary of state said Friday that because of the small margin between the presidential candidates, there will be a recount.

    The Saturday, October 31, 2020 newspaper, which I saved this part of, said this: (on page A22, table continues on page A23)

    Officials did not provide an estimate but said that because of the large number of mail ballots expected it could take a couple of days for all of them to be scanned and counted. The secretary of state said he expects the winners of most races to be announced by Nov. 4

    When last polls close (Eastern time) 7 p.m.

    Type of ballots reported first: No order

    Can postmarked ballots arrive later? No.

    Do those who request a mail ballot but vote in person instead cast a provisional ballot?

    No. If a voter does not surrender a mail ballot, the voter can sign an affidavit and cast a regular ballot.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  159. #157

    I had received the absentee ballot and had brought it with me in case they needed it. They didnt ask for it after I disclosed I had received one.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  160. Why Congress Should Impeach Trump Again

    The emergence of an audio recording of President Trump pressuring the Georgia secretary of state to overturn the results of the election is a harrowing moment in the history of our democracy. And though the number of his days in office is dwindling, the only appropriate response is to impeach Mr. Trump. Again.

    Whether he acknowledges it or not, President Trump is leaving the White House on Jan. 20 — but right now, there is nothing stopping him from running in 2024. That is a terrifying prospect, because the way he has conducted himself over the past two months, wielding the power of the presidency to try to steal another term in office, has threatened one of our republic’s most essential traditions: the peaceful transfer of power.

    Fortunately, our founders anticipated we would face a moment like this, which is one reason Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution entrusts Congress with the power not only to remove a president but also to prevent him or her from ever holding elected office again. Mr. Trump’s conduct over the past two months has left our legislators with no choice but to use it. That impeachment inquiry would take time, far more than Mr. Trump has left in office. But it would be well worth it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/opinion/trump-georgia-impeach.html

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  161. 160. Appalled (1a17de) — 1/4/2021 @ 4:05 pm

    I had received the absentee ballot and had brought it with me in case they needed it. They didnt ask for it after I disclosed I had received one.

    The rules really are hard to find out. Now that’s a better rule than the rule I thought they had, unless they changed the rule.

    Of course, this way, they can’t log in or count any mail ballot till they check if somebody voted in person, or at least they’re in a race, and whichever ballot gets to the log in or sign in process first, can be logged in and doing so disqualifies the voter from using the other method of voting.

    I heard about 500,000 people in Georgia used mail ballots and about 2 million (I guess as of a few days ago) voted early. The day before Election Day is no longer the day before most people vote.

    Sammy Finkelman (fac2c6)

  162. ‘BJay’ Pak resigns after president calls him a ‘never-Trumper’

    Well, that explains why the USA-GA left early.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  163. @163: If your IQ is over 115, you are a presumed #Never-Trumper.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)


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